1 2012-04-21 00:01:32 kish has joined
  2 2012-04-21 00:02:16 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  3 2012-04-21 00:04:58 <luke-jr> Joric: no, 0.3.24 is not stable.
  4 2012-04-21 00:05:22 <luke-jr> in fact, it has known exploits
  5 2012-04-21 00:06:33 kish has joined
  6 2012-04-21 00:07:16 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  7 2012-04-21 00:07:17 <dwon> The version in debian testing is old because the automated process to move builds from unstable -> testing requires that it builds properly on all architectures listed in the debian/control file, and it currently breaks on a bunch of platforms.
  8 2012-04-21 00:07:38 <dwon> It's completely broken on big-endian architectures, and it's broken on little-endian architectures where char == unsigned char
  9 2012-04-21 00:07:39 <luke-jr> dwon: so did the old versions
 10 2012-04-21 00:07:48 <sipa> someone was working on that, no?
 11 2012-04-21 00:07:54 <dwon> sipa: that was me
 12 2012-04-21 00:07:59 <sipa> oh, right!
 13 2012-04-21 00:08:03 <luke-jr> not on BE afaik
 14 2012-04-21 00:08:09 <luke-jr> that will be a nightmare
 15 2012-04-21 00:08:11 <sipa> on BE it simply won't work
 16 2012-04-21 00:08:20 <dwon> I submitted a patch to fix the unsigned char thing, and another patch to drop support for BE architectures from the debian/control file
 17 2012-04-21 00:08:49 <sipa> i'd like to try adapting it for BE (mostly just get an idea of how much work it is), but i'd need access to a BE system that can build bitcoin
 18 2012-04-21 00:08:58 <luke-jr> dwon: I'll have the unsigned char thing backported to 0.4 and 0.5 soonish
 19 2012-04-21 00:09:00 minimoose has joined
 20 2012-04-21 00:09:12 <luke-jr> sipa: Raspberry Pi?
 21 2012-04-21 00:09:32 <sipa> luke-jr: isn't that LE ARM?
 22 2012-04-21 00:10:25 <dwon> luke-jr: cool.  I'm glad you're checking it carefully [luke-jr did an objdump and everything!] because I put that patch together in an afternoon, and without any real understanding of the underlying code.  I *think* I got it right, but it's possible that I didn't.
 23 2012-04-21 00:10:31 <luke-jr> sipa: I presume it can run in BE mode?
 24 2012-04-21 00:10:45 <sipa> the CPU supports both, but I don't know about the rest of the hardware and OS platforms
 25 2012-04-21 00:10:51 <luke-jr> hmm
 26 2012-04-21 00:10:52 <dwon> There are some ARM processors that are LE only
 27 2012-04-21 00:11:06 <luke-jr> I should have a PowerPC EFIKA somewhere
 28 2012-04-21 00:11:10 <luke-jr> not sure I can find it tho
 29 2012-04-21 00:11:15 <sipa> luke-jr: also, I don't have a rasberry pi (yet)
 30 2012-04-21 00:11:31 kish has joined
 31 2012-04-21 00:11:36 <luke-jr> sipa: GNU's compile farm?
 32 2012-04-21 00:11:59 <luke-jr> http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/CompileFarm
 33 2012-04-21 00:12:05 <gmaxwell> all the boost/c++ stuff is what makes it annoying.
 34 2012-04-21 00:12:13 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 35 2012-04-21 00:12:14 <gmaxwell> otherwise it would be easy to compile on my solaris box.
 36 2012-04-21 00:13:00 <sipa> hmm, that compile farm looks interesting
 37 2012-04-21 00:14:04 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: ping
 38 2012-04-21 00:14:16 <Diablo-D3> pong
 39 2012-04-21 00:14:25 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: can you help me figure out why this is broken? http://paste.pocoo.org/show/584987/
 40 2012-04-21 00:14:34 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: it seems to be failing to clear the OCL buffer
 41 2012-04-21 00:14:46 <luke-jr> to build: g++ test.c -lOpenCL -std=c++0x
 42 2012-04-21 00:15:00 tower has joined
 43 2012-04-21 00:15:54 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: dunno, should work fine, but Im not going to go test it
 44 2012-04-21 00:16:00 <Diablo-D3> doesnt look too different than mine
 45 2012-04-21 00:16:07 <Diablo-D3> its probably something both stupid and subtle
 46 2012-04-21 00:16:30 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: you have a C thing?
 47 2012-04-21 00:16:33 kish has joined
 48 2012-04-21 00:16:34 <Diablo-D3> are you clearing the buffer before executing the kernel for the first time?
 49 2012-04-21 00:16:50 <Diablo-D3> the java api I use exposes the C api almost as is
 50 2012-04-21 00:16:58 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: that's what seems to be going wrong (I only execute the kernel once)
 51 2012-04-21 00:17:00 <Diablo-D3> I wrote DM using the opencl spec
 52 2012-04-21 00:17:03 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: no idea why it's not clearing
 53 2012-04-21 00:17:16 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 54 2012-04-21 00:17:24 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: I'm trying to put together a test case so the guys in #OpenCL will help me figure out why my GPU is giving me <50% shares
 55 2012-04-21 00:17:28 <Diablo-D3> well, your code looks like you clear buffer after kernel execution, which is correct... but are you ever clearing it for the first time?
 56 2012-04-21 00:17:35 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: you didnt use the ultimate test case
 57 2012-04-21 00:17:40 <Diablo-D3> DM itself.
 58 2012-04-21 00:18:34 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: technically that code isn't executing the kernel at all right now, just trying to clear then read it
 59 2012-04-21 00:18:54 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: DM is a pain to run, and #OpenCL guys won't support it
 60 2012-04-21 00:19:38 <Diablo-D3> no, but Im saying
 61 2012-04-21 00:19:39 <Diablo-D3> do it
 62 2012-04-21 00:19:46 <Diablo-D3> I know my code works
 63 2012-04-21 00:19:51 <Diablo-D3> and I know what my code does
 64 2012-04-21 00:19:58 <Diablo-D3> and I know DM has a functioning raw ghash meter.
 65 2012-04-21 00:21:31 kish has joined
 66 2012-04-21 00:22:13 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 67 2012-04-21 00:22:23 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: use -dd in DM, generate 10k attempts (not accepts, although something else is wrong if attempts isnt accepts+rejects+hwe), and see how many ghash transpired
 68 2012-04-21 00:22:42 <Diablo-D3> if its not 42k ghash, then the bug is where you think it is
 69 2012-04-21 00:26:32 kish has joined
 70 2012-04-21 00:27:15 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 71 2012-04-21 00:27:38 splatster has joined
 72 2012-04-21 00:28:34 Maged has joined
 73 2012-04-21 00:31:33 kish has joined
 74 2012-04-21 00:32:15 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 75 2012-04-21 00:32:28 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: how do I get it running?
 76 2012-04-21 00:32:46 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: read the op post.
 77 2012-04-21 00:33:22 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: it doesn't say.
 78 2012-04-21 00:33:30 <Diablo-D3> I dont understand your question then
 79 2012-04-21 00:33:35 <luke-jr> what dependencies?
 80 2012-04-21 00:33:38 <Diablo-D3> java.
 81 2012-04-21 00:33:45 <luke-jr> that's all?
 82 2012-04-21 00:33:51 <Diablo-D3> a working opencl impl as well.
 83 2012-04-21 00:33:59 <Diablo-D3> everything else is in the binary zip
 84 2012-04-21 00:34:13 <luke-jr> what package is java?
 85 2012-04-21 00:34:42 <Diablo-D3> what os?
 86 2012-04-21 00:34:58 <luke-jr> Gentoo
 87 2012-04-21 00:35:08 <luke-jr> icedtea-bin work?
 88 2012-04-21 00:35:10 <Diablo-D3> dunno, ask #gentoo
 89 2012-04-21 00:35:18 <Diablo-D3> that sounds right, though
 90 2012-04-21 00:35:30 <sipa> $ java -version
 91 2012-04-21 00:35:30 <sipa> java version "1.6.0_23"
 92 2012-04-21 00:35:30 <sipa> OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea6 1.11pre) (6b23~pre11-0ubuntu1.11.10.1)
 93 2012-04-21 00:35:36 <sipa> that works, afaik
 94 2012-04-21 00:35:49 <luke-jr> does it need X support?
 95 2012-04-21 00:36:02 <Diablo-D3> yes, you cant use the headless version
 96 2012-04-21 00:36:06 <luke-jr> grmbl
 97 2012-04-21 00:36:08 <Diablo-D3> and you obviously need X running as well
 98 2012-04-21 00:36:23 <luke-jr> Java w/ X is demanding a non-free font
 99 2012-04-21 00:36:37 <luke-jr> 1 of 8 pkgs to compile…
100 2012-04-21 00:36:38 kish has joined
101 2012-04-21 00:37:01 <Diablo-D3> ZOMG AN UNFREE FONT! ITS INFECTING MY BRAIN WITH ITS NONFREENESS
102 2012-04-21 00:37:08 <Diablo-D3> RMS SAVVEE MEEEEEEE
103 2012-04-21 00:37:18 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
104 2012-04-21 00:37:19 <luke-jr> obviously this VM has non-free crap already for OCL
105 2012-04-21 00:37:27 <Diablo-D3> no
106 2012-04-21 00:37:35 <Diablo-D3> thats part of lwjgl, which is in the binary zip
107 2012-04-21 00:37:48 <Diablo-D3> it just acts as a bridge to the C lib
108 2012-04-21 00:37:57 <luke-jr> fglrx I meant
109 2012-04-21 00:38:00 <Diablo-D3> ahh
110 2012-04-21 00:38:51 <luke-jr> wtf I need to install unzip too
111 2012-04-21 00:40:05 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: btw, it seems glbse wasted your money
112 2012-04-21 00:40:11 <Diablo-D3> pretty much everyone is rejecting the IPO
113 2012-04-21 00:41:17 <luke-jr> mhash: 260.2/259.2 | accept: 0 | reject: 0 | hw error: 4517
114 2012-04-21 00:41:25 <Diablo-D3> holy dear god
115 2012-04-21 00:41:35 <Diablo-D3> your hardware is beyond fucked
116 2012-04-21 00:41:39 kish has joined
117 2012-04-21 00:41:48 <Diablo-D3> what args did you give it?!
118 2012-04-21 00:42:01 <luke-jr> /DiabloMiner-Linux.sh -u 16kNKa7WUg8QAPFy8dJRv7USSu2fAG2pkW -p x -o mining.eligius.st -r 8337
119 2012-04-21 00:42:07 <Diablo-D3> try -v 2
120 2012-04-21 00:42:20 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
121 2012-04-21 00:42:57 <luke-jr> mhash: 267.2/267.4 | accept: 2 | reject: 1 | hw error: 0
122 2012-04-21 00:43:01 <luke-jr> the 1 reject was duplicate
123 2012-04-21 00:43:09 <Diablo-D3> heh
124 2012-04-21 00:43:19 <Diablo-D3> you hit the "-v 1 fucks up on some hardware for no goddamned reason" bug
125 2012-04-21 00:43:25 <Diablo-D3> <3 driver bugs
126 2012-04-21 00:43:38 <luke-jr> all 6870s, or no?
127 2012-04-21 00:43:54 machine2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
128 2012-04-21 00:45:58 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: looks like it's got the same problem as cgminer and poclbm
129 2012-04-21 00:46:29 <luke-jr> it's only finding about 40% of shares
130 2012-04-21 00:46:38 kish has joined
131 2012-04-21 00:47:20 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
132 2012-04-21 00:47:43 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: whats your actual hashrate?
133 2012-04-21 00:47:52 <Diablo-D3> because 267 seems low for four 6870s
134 2012-04-21 00:48:28 <luke-jr> I have one
135 2012-04-21 00:48:41 <luke-jr> mhash: 270.6/270.0 | accept: 5 | reject: 0 | hw error: 0
136 2012-04-21 00:48:59 <luke-jr> should find a share every 16 seconds on average, but it's  more like a minute
137 2012-04-21 00:49:01 <Diablo-D3> and you were supposed to use -dd
138 2012-04-21 00:49:10 <luke-jr> oh right
139 2012-04-21 00:49:29 machine2 has joined
140 2012-04-21 00:49:35 <luke-jr> return of the "hardware" errors
141 2012-04-21 00:49:43 <luke-jr>                           mh: 267.8/267.8 | a/r/hwe: 0/0/1707 | gh: 7.7 | fps: 30.6
142 2012-04-21 00:49:48 devrando1 has joined
143 2012-04-21 00:49:51 <Diablo-D3> you forgot -v 2?
144 2012-04-21 00:51:40 kish has joined
145 2012-04-21 00:52:20 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
146 2012-04-21 00:53:03 Hasbro has joined
147 2012-04-21 00:56:01 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: no
148 2012-04-21 00:56:16 <luke-jr> this is with -v 2
149 2012-04-21 00:56:39 kish has joined
150 2012-04-21 00:57:04 <Diablo-D3> oh nice
151 2012-04-21 00:57:09 <Diablo-D3> is this through one of your kvms?
152 2012-04-21 00:57:26 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
153 2012-04-21 00:57:34 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: yes
154 2012-04-21 00:57:52 <Diablo-D3> hrm, I forget how kvm works, can you set it to use one core only and affine to that core?
155 2012-04-21 00:58:05 <luke-jr> I'd need to reboot it :/
156 2012-04-21 00:58:11 <Diablo-D3> but can you?
157 2012-04-21 00:58:14 <luke-jr> yes
158 2012-04-21 00:58:17 <Diablo-D3> try that.
159 2012-04-21 00:58:29 <Diablo-D3> it looks suspiciously like a race going on
160 2012-04-21 01:01:17 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
161 2012-04-21 01:01:31 toffoo has quit ()
162 2012-04-21 01:01:42 kish has joined
163 2012-04-21 01:01:43 <luke-jr> erm
164 2012-04-21 01:01:46 <luke-jr> only getting 30 MH/s now
165 2012-04-21 01:01:49 copumpkin has joined
166 2012-04-21 01:02:16 <Diablo-D3> lolnice.
167 2012-04-21 01:02:26 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
168 2012-04-21 01:02:28 <luke-jr> ?
169 2012-04-21 01:02:29 <Diablo-D3> but did the hwe go away? go restart it 9000 times
170 2012-04-21 01:02:34 <Diablo-D3> DM I mean
171 2012-04-21 01:03:00 <luke-jr> yes
172 2012-04-21 01:03:08 <luke-jr> even without -v 2
173 2012-04-21 01:03:13 <Diablo-D3> well we now know the reason why that bug happens
174 2012-04-21 01:03:16 <Diablo-D3> kvm fucked up
175 2012-04-21 01:03:24 <luke-jr> ?
176 2012-04-21 01:03:49 <Diablo-D3> its not dealing with kernel internal mutexes correctly or some other bullshit
177 2012-04-21 01:04:13 danbri_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
178 2012-04-21 01:04:14 <Diablo-D3> its allowing a race condition to happen
179 2012-04-21 01:04:26 <Diablo-D3> and fglrx isnt exactly the sanest software written
180 2012-04-21 01:04:35 <luke-jr> KVM doesn't deal with kernel stuff
181 2012-04-21 01:04:37 danbri has joined
182 2012-04-21 01:04:45 <luke-jr> and you mentioned it affecting others anyway
183 2012-04-21 01:05:27 <Diablo-D3> kvm DOES deal with kernel stuff
184 2012-04-21 01:05:39 <Diablo-D3> it turns the damned kernel into a linux program, its ALL kvm
185 2012-04-21 01:05:42 <Diablo-D3> all over the damned place
186 2012-04-21 01:05:42 <luke-jr> no, it doesn't.
187 2012-04-21 01:05:43 ghibly777 has joined
188 2012-04-21 01:05:50 <luke-jr> KVM is like qemu
189 2012-04-21 01:05:55 <luke-jr> the guest kernel runs on its own
190 2012-04-21 01:05:58 <Diablo-D3> same difference
191 2012-04-21 01:06:03 <Diablo-D3> it fucks with the kernel
192 2012-04-21 01:06:15 <luke-jr> … not really
193 2012-04-21 01:06:19 <Diablo-D3> its causing a race condition to either happen or be exposed.
194 2012-04-21 01:06:22 <Diablo-D3> so bam.
195 2012-04-21 01:06:38 <Diablo-D3> and no, I said the -v 1 bug effected others
196 2012-04-21 01:06:42 <Diablo-D3> you clearly didnt have it
197 2012-04-21 01:06:43 kish has joined
198 2012-04-21 01:07:26 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
199 2012-04-21 01:07:57 <luke-jr> anyhow, how do we proceed to get this working?
200 2012-04-21 01:08:06 <Diablo-D3> well, technically, we did
201 2012-04-21 01:08:11 <Diablo-D3> dont use multicore kvms.
202 2012-04-21 01:09:52 <luke-jr> no, now the hashrate is 30 MH/s
203 2012-04-21 01:09:58 <luke-jr> that's not working
204 2012-04-21 01:10:05 <Diablo-D3> its more working than it was.
205 2012-04-21 01:10:09 <Diablo-D3> what -f?
206 2012-04-21 01:10:20 <luke-jr> none
207 2012-04-21 01:10:28 dvide has quit ()
208 2012-04-21 01:10:31 <Diablo-D3> try -f 5
209 2012-04-21 01:10:36 ghibly777 has quit (Client Quit)
210 2012-04-21 01:10:56 <luke-jr> same
211 2012-04-21 01:11:07 Maged has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643])
212 2012-04-21 01:11:09 <Diablo-D3> weird
213 2012-04-21 01:11:40 <luke-jr> yeah, especially since my old mining VM worked fine with 1 core
214 2012-04-21 01:11:40 kish has joined
215 2012-04-21 01:11:46 <luke-jr> I only enabled more cores, for gaming
216 2012-04-21 01:11:57 <luke-jr> (which works fine btw)
217 2012-04-21 01:12:09 <Diablo-D3> see if cgminer or poclbm or whatever shits itself with only 1
218 2012-04-21 01:12:23 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
219 2012-04-21 01:12:33 <luke-jr> they both get 30 MH/s as well
220 2012-04-21 01:12:47 <Diablo-D3> wow wat
221 2012-04-21 01:12:56 <Diablo-D3> which core did you affine it on?
222 2012-04-21 01:13:01 <luke-jr> shrug
223 2012-04-21 01:13:05 <Diablo-D3> 0?
224 2012-04-21 01:13:10 <Diablo-D3> because you might want it to not be 0
225 2012-04-21 01:13:16 <luke-jr> host is 91.9%id
226 2012-04-21 01:13:28 <luke-jr> I'm not sure it's affined, just single-threaded
227 2012-04-21 01:13:58 <Diablo-D3> hrm, kernel should be scheduling it right
228 2012-04-21 01:14:00 <Diablo-D3> so I doubt its that
229 2012-04-21 01:14:19 <luke-jr> it's not like it's under any load
230 2012-04-21 01:14:30 <luke-jr> maybe I should try an older SDK or something
231 2012-04-21 01:14:31 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but you know how shit goes
232 2012-04-21 01:14:42 <Diablo-D3> what SDK? because you should be using the one that came with 12.3
233 2012-04-21 01:14:44 <Diablo-D3> (NOT 2.6)
234 2012-04-21 01:14:53 <luke-jr> whatever 12.3 has
235 2012-04-21 01:15:08 devrando1 has quit (Quit: leaving)
236 2012-04-21 01:15:12 <luke-jr> Using AMD Accelerated Parallel Processing OpenCL 1.1 AMD-APP (898.1)
237 2012-04-21 01:15:34 <luke-jr> shall I try 12.2 or 11.x?
238 2012-04-21 01:15:39 <Diablo-D3> no.
239 2012-04-21 01:16:03 <luke-jr> rerun aticonfig --initial and reboot on one core?
240 2012-04-21 01:16:14 <Diablo-D3> that probably wont fix it
241 2012-04-21 01:16:16 <Diablo-D3> it IS working
242 2012-04-21 01:16:18 <Diablo-D3> its just insanely slow
243 2012-04-21 01:16:42 kish has joined
244 2012-04-21 01:17:04 <luke-jr> with 4 cores, it at least reported a sane hashrate
245 2012-04-21 01:17:32 <Diablo-D3> yeah but it also fell apart
246 2012-04-21 01:18:33 <luke-jr> aticonfig --initial --force && reboot
247 2012-04-21 01:18:37 <luke-jr> now cgminer reports 275 MH/s
248 2012-04-21 01:18:41 fimpfimp has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
249 2012-04-21 01:18:48 <luke-jr> and seems to be working in general
250 2012-04-21 01:19:00 <luke-jr> time will tell if its finding shares sanel
251 2012-04-21 01:19:11 <luke-jr> seems to be so far
252 2012-04-21 01:20:59 <luke-jr> I wonder if I can reboot with 4 CPUs again and keep it…
253 2012-04-21 01:23:20 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: thanks, I never would have thought of trying that if you hadn't suggested it
254 2012-04-21 01:24:51 Hasbro_ has joined
255 2012-04-21 01:27:34 <Diablo-D3> hhuh weird
256 2012-04-21 01:27:42 <Diablo-D3> I wonder why aticonfig fixed it thogh
257 2012-04-21 01:28:25 FACEFOX has joined
258 2012-04-21 01:28:42 Hasbro has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
259 2012-04-21 01:29:19 Turingi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
260 2012-04-21 01:32:01 leviTate has joined
261 2012-04-21 01:32:10 banshee12 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
262 2012-04-21 01:34:23 h4ckm3_ is now known as h4ckm3
263 2012-04-21 01:37:39 FACEFOX-DOT-COM has joined
264 2012-04-21 01:39:34 Detritus has joined
265 2012-04-21 01:40:17 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: get this, if I do 4 CPUs with 1 socket (nfc what that means), it works…
266 2012-04-21 01:43:55 aga has joined
267 2012-04-21 01:43:56 agath has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
268 2012-04-21 01:44:10 Hasbro_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
269 2012-04-21 01:51:37 mmoya has joined
270 2012-04-21 01:51:49 danbri has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
271 2012-04-21 01:52:12 danbri has joined
272 2012-04-21 01:54:17 Transisto has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
273 2012-04-21 01:59:01 Transisto has joined
274 2012-04-21 01:59:02 Transisto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
275 2012-04-21 01:59:56 Glasswalker has joined
276 2012-04-21 02:01:29 Transisto has joined
277 2012-04-21 02:06:00 Transisto has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
278 2012-04-21 02:07:21 machine1 has joined
279 2012-04-21 02:07:22 aga has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
280 2012-04-21 02:07:54 aga has joined
281 2012-04-21 02:12:49 Transisto has joined
282 2012-04-21 02:12:49 Transisto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
283 2012-04-21 02:12:57 Transisto has joined
284 2012-04-21 02:17:19 dr_win has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
285 2012-04-21 02:17:42 Transisto has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
286 2012-04-21 02:17:51 dr_win has joined
287 2012-04-21 02:20:41 Hasbro has joined
288 2012-04-21 02:20:53 leviTate has quit ()
289 2012-04-21 02:22:39 Transisto has joined
290 2012-04-21 02:23:36 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
291 2012-04-21 02:23:52 copumpkin has joined
292 2012-04-21 02:25:45 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
293 2012-04-21 02:30:26 ahihi2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
294 2012-04-21 02:30:53 splatster has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
295 2012-04-21 02:31:30 ahihi2 has joined
296 2012-04-21 02:33:21 Transisto has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
297 2012-04-21 02:36:56 <copumpkin> is it normal for the "splash screen" of bitcoin-qt to be sitting around behind the main window forever? (on mac os)
298 2012-04-21 02:37:35 <luke-jr> copumpkin: I don't think so O.o
299 2012-04-21 02:37:53 <copumpkin> http://snapplr.com/14pf
300 2012-04-21 02:37:58 <copumpkin> I just noticed when moving my window out of the way
301 2012-04-21 02:38:49 <Joric> i started to skip ';', damn python
302 2012-04-21 02:39:51 <luke-jr> copumpkin: report a bug
303 2012-04-21 02:40:01 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
304 2012-04-21 02:41:05 t7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
305 2012-04-21 02:41:20 Hasbro has quit (Changing host)
306 2012-04-21 02:41:20 Hasbro has joined
307 2012-04-21 02:41:29 Transisto has joined
308 2012-04-21 02:42:24 <copumpkin> luke-jr: hmm, when I restarted the program it didn't stick around
309 2012-04-21 02:42:42 <luke-jr> copumpkin: do you use virtual desktops? maybe related
310 2012-04-21 02:43:18 <copumpkin> well, I have an extra desktop, but the bitcoin window never moved off the main one
311 2012-04-21 02:43:37 <luke-jr> copumpkin: maybe you were on the other one while it was starting?
312 2012-04-21 02:43:44 <copumpkin> could be, I guess
313 2012-04-21 02:44:04 <copumpkin> I'll experiment with it a bit
314 2012-04-21 02:45:00 <copumpkin> aha, yeah
315 2012-04-21 02:45:08 <copumpkin> if I switch between desktops while it loads, it gets confused
316 2012-04-21 02:45:37 <copumpkin> where do bitcoin-qt bug reports belong?
317 2012-04-21 02:45:37 TransistOrg has joined
318 2012-04-21 02:45:37 TransistOrg has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
319 2012-04-21 02:45:50 <luke-jr> copumpkin: Github has an issue tracker
320 2012-04-21 02:45:53 Transisto has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
321 2012-04-21 02:46:28 <copumpkin> ah, thanks
322 2012-04-21 02:46:41 sneak_ has joined
323 2012-04-21 02:47:41 sneak has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
324 2012-04-21 02:48:03 Transisto has joined
325 2012-04-21 02:50:09 [7] has quit (Disconnected by services)
326 2012-04-21 02:50:16 TheSeven has joined
327 2012-04-21 02:51:00 splatster has joined
328 2012-04-21 02:55:59 <etotheipi_> How did Bitcoin decide that port 8333 and 18333 were good ports to use?  and how did they know they weren't going to be in use by other processes?
329 2012-04-21 02:58:02 <k9quaint> many coin flips were involved in the selection
330 2012-04-21 02:58:17 <luke-jr> lol\
331 2012-04-21 02:58:22 <luke-jr> Googling a port # helps
332 2012-04-21 02:58:47 da2ce732 has joined
333 2012-04-21 02:58:48 <etotheipi_> luke-jr: I've been doing that
334 2012-04-21 02:59:03 <etotheipi_> but I don't know if it's bad etiquette to just take one
335 2012-04-21 02:59:09 <luke-jr> it is
336 2012-04-21 02:59:12 <etotheipi_> or if there's some intelligent process to use
337 2012-04-21 02:59:14 <luke-jr> you're supposed to ask the IANA for one
338 2012-04-21 02:59:25 <luke-jr> but good luck with that
339 2012-04-21 02:59:39 <etotheipi_> ahh... okay so I'll just do some coinflips then
340 2012-04-21 02:59:57 * luke-jr wonders if all the primes are taken
341 2012-04-21 03:01:06 <gmaxwell> nope.
342 2012-04-21 03:01:43 <gmaxwell> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=primes+%3C+65536
343 2012-04-21 03:02:22 <gmaxwell> 65521 seems not taken, enh?
344 2012-04-21 03:02:40 <luke-jr> but that's in the whole "temporary port numbers for outbound connections" rnge
345 2012-04-21 03:03:47 <gmaxwell> well the largest prime < 1024 is 1021. less than 32768 is 32749.
346 2012-04-21 03:06:09 <etotheipi_> is there a maximum port number I should be using?
347 2012-04-21 03:07:12 <SomeoneWeird> 65535
348 2012-04-21 03:07:52 <etotheipi_> so I was using 63331 ... someone had issues with it in Windows
349 2012-04-21 03:08:06 <etotheipi_> they reported that everything about 62200 fails
350 2012-04-21 03:08:20 <etotheipi_> and 61199 and lower succeeds
351 2012-04-21 03:08:33 <SomeoneWeird> well... that's windows
352 2012-04-21 03:08:34 <SomeoneWeird> :P
353 2012-04-21 03:08:35 <etotheipi_> s/about/above/g
354 2012-04-21 03:09:06 <etotheipi_> p.s. port 822888 worked in linux
355 2012-04-21 03:10:09 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: I'm sure you got 822888%65536 or something like that.
356 2012-04-21 03:10:33 <etotheipi_> ahhh
357 2012-04-21 03:11:25 Karmaon is now known as pho|||
358 2012-04-21 03:11:32 pho is now known as ||!~Karmaon@unaffiliated/karmaon|Karmaon
359 2012-04-21 03:12:48 james has joined
360 2012-04-21 03:13:09 darkee has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
361 2012-04-21 03:13:14 james is now known as Guest8379
362 2012-04-21 03:13:39 topace has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
363 2012-04-21 03:15:01 darkee has joined
364 2012-04-21 03:15:19 Zarutian has joined
365 2012-04-21 03:22:20 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: you want something between 1024 and 32768
366 2012-04-21 03:22:33 <luke-jr> below 1024 is reserved for root
367 2012-04-21 03:22:40 <luke-jr> above 32768 is reserved for outgoing connections
368 2012-04-21 03:23:33 gfinn has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
369 2012-04-21 03:24:12 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
370 2012-04-21 03:26:27 <etotheipi_> ahh...good to know!
371 2012-04-21 03:30:46 Bwild has joined
372 2012-04-21 03:31:03 Guest8379 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
373 2012-04-21 03:32:33 topace has joined
374 2012-04-21 03:32:34 splatster has quit (Quit: splatster)
375 2012-04-21 03:33:29 Transisto has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
376 2012-04-21 03:33:30 splatster has joined
377 2012-04-21 03:38:05 gfinn has joined
378 2012-04-21 03:48:14 Transisto has joined
379 2012-04-21 03:48:14 Transisto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
380 2012-04-21 03:48:22 Transisto has joined
381 2012-04-21 04:01:48 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
382 2012-04-21 04:11:21 setkeh has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7)
383 2012-04-21 04:21:24 pickett has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
384 2012-04-21 04:23:48 pickett has joined
385 2012-04-21 04:24:00 <phantomcircuit> bleh
386 2012-04-21 04:24:16 <phantomcircuit> there is some weird bug with downloading the blockchain were the client gets offsync from the other side
387 2012-04-21 04:24:21 <phantomcircuit> and every block is an orhan
388 2012-04-21 04:24:23 <phantomcircuit> orphan
389 2012-04-21 04:24:52 <phantomcircuit> i think it happens when you're in the middle of an initial download and a new block is generated
390 2012-04-21 04:25:06 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: its harmless at least.
391 2012-04-21 04:25:19 <phantomcircuit> well yes and no
392 2012-04-21 04:25:20 <gmaxwell> just leaves messy logs.
393 2012-04-21 04:25:25 <phantomcircuit> nothing breaks but it's slooow
394 2012-04-21 04:25:32 <phantomcircuit> i have no idea why
395 2012-04-21 04:25:57 <gmaxwell> I didn't think it was actually slow. You sure that its not just the normal slowness of the late in chain syncing?
396 2012-04-21 04:26:16 <phantomcircuit> pretty sure
397 2012-04-21 04:26:24 <phantomcircuit> it's a lot faster now
398 2012-04-21 04:26:32 <phantomcircuit> although that could just be luck of the draw faster peer
399 2012-04-21 04:26:46 dr_win has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
400 2012-04-21 04:27:20 dr_win has joined
401 2012-04-21 04:27:53 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,blocks
402 2012-04-21 04:27:53 <gribble> 176551
403 2012-04-21 04:28:07 <phantomcircuit> huh
404 2012-04-21 04:28:27 <phantomcircuit> im a thousand blocks behind
405 2012-04-21 04:28:36 <phantomcircuit> but payments i made today are showing confirmed
406 2012-04-21 04:28:50 <phantomcircuit> oh
407 2012-04-21 04:28:54 <phantomcircuit> right nvm that makes sense
408 2012-04-21 04:29:39 Staatsfeind is now known as vragnaroda
409 2012-04-21 04:40:38 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
410 2012-04-21 04:45:31 fpgaminer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
411 2012-04-21 04:45:47 fpgaminer has joined
412 2012-04-21 04:59:59 ciscoftw has quit ()
413 2012-04-21 05:00:51 ThomasV has joined
414 2012-04-21 05:27:49 DamascusVG has joined
415 2012-04-21 05:27:49 DamascusVG has quit (Changing host)
416 2012-04-21 05:27:49 DamascusVG has joined
417 2012-04-21 05:32:24 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
418 2012-04-21 05:34:16 Slix` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
419 2012-04-21 05:40:31 dr_win has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
420 2012-04-21 05:45:49 Bigpiggy01Mining has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
421 2012-04-21 05:47:43 Bigpiggy01Mining has joined
422 2012-04-21 05:52:47 Eleuthria has joined
423 2012-04-21 05:59:33 splatster has quit (Quit: splatster)
424 2012-04-21 06:01:10 da2ce732 is now known as da2ce7
425 2012-04-21 06:02:51 Bigpiggy01Mining has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
426 2012-04-21 06:03:16 Steve__ has joined
427 2012-04-21 06:04:26 <Steve__> hi does anyone know an easy way to extract my public keys from my wallet
428 2012-04-21 06:04:35 Bigpiggy01Mining has joined
429 2012-04-21 06:04:46 <Steve__> I don't want the hash, I'd like to import the full byte array into another program
430 2012-04-21 06:05:29 zeiris has joined
431 2012-04-21 06:06:08 andytoshi has joined
432 2012-04-21 06:08:52 Eleuthria has left ()
433 2012-04-21 06:10:15 <Joric> Steve, https://github.com/joric/pywallet replace public_key_to_bc_address(x) to x.encode('hex')
434 2012-04-21 06:10:48 <Steve__> thanks joric, i'll check it out
435 2012-04-21 06:15:33 capiscuas has joined
436 2012-04-21 06:21:30 zeiris has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
437 2012-04-21 06:23:36 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
438 2012-04-21 06:24:32 Steve__ has quit (Quit: Steve__)
439 2012-04-21 06:26:52 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@pool-96-226-232-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net|brwyatt
440 2012-04-21 06:28:03 Transisto has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
441 2012-04-21 06:33:52 Transisto has joined
442 2012-04-21 06:36:54 RazielZ has joined
443 2012-04-21 06:37:37 erle- has joined
444 2012-04-21 06:40:22 abracadabra has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
445 2012-04-21 06:40:56 MobiusL has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
446 2012-04-21 06:41:25 Xunie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
447 2012-04-21 06:46:16 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
448 2012-04-21 06:47:31 abracadab has joined
449 2012-04-21 06:47:31 abracadab has quit (Changing host)
450 2012-04-21 06:47:31 abracadab has joined
451 2012-04-21 06:51:07 MobiusL has joined
452 2012-04-21 06:53:52 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
453 2012-04-21 06:54:44 TiggrBot has joined
454 2012-04-21 06:59:50 ThomasV has joined
455 2012-04-21 07:06:59 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
456 2012-04-21 07:07:09 [7] has joined
457 2012-04-21 07:07:50 Bigpiggy01Mining has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
458 2012-04-21 07:08:08 Bigpiggy01Mining has joined
459 2012-04-21 07:12:50 jeremias has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
460 2012-04-21 07:15:21 ferroh has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
461 2012-04-21 07:17:12 <dwon> etotheipi_: From http://www.iana.org/assignments/service-names-port-numbers/service-names-port-numbers.xml:
462 2012-04-21 07:17:30 <dwon> Port numbers are assigned in various ways, based on three ranges: System
463 2012-04-21 07:17:30 <dwon> Ports (0-1023), User Ports (1024-49151), and the Dynamic and/or Private
464 2012-04-21 07:17:30 <dwon> Ports (49152-65535); the difference uses of these ranges is described in
465 2012-04-21 07:17:30 <dwon> [RFC6335]. System Ports are assigned by IETF
466 2012-04-21 07:17:30 <dwon> process for standards-track protocols, as per [RFC6335].  User Ports
467 2012-04-21 07:17:32 <dwon> are assigned by IANA using the "Expert Review" process, as per
468 2012-04-21 07:17:35 <dwon> [RFC6335].  Dynamic Ports are not assigned.
469 2012-04-21 07:18:01 <dwon> The registration procedures for service names and port numbers are
470 2012-04-21 07:18:01 <dwon> described in [RFC6335].
471 2012-04-21 07:18:01 <dwon> Assigned ports both System and User ports SHOULD NOT be used without
472 2012-04-21 07:18:01 <dwon> or prior to IANA registration.
473 2012-04-21 07:20:58 dwon has quit (Quit: good night, folks!)
474 2012-04-21 07:34:14 Joric has quit ()
475 2012-04-21 07:49:42 MobiusL has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
476 2012-04-21 07:50:45 MobiusL has joined
477 2012-04-21 07:53:10 aga is now known as agath
478 2012-04-21 07:55:04 Transisto has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
479 2012-04-21 07:56:20 Transisto has joined
480 2012-04-21 07:56:22 Transisto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
481 2012-04-21 07:58:52 Transisto has joined
482 2012-04-21 08:01:11 <da2ce7> Updated Builds:
483 2012-04-21 08:01:11 <da2ce7> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77301
484 2012-04-21 08:01:33 imsaguy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
485 2012-04-21 08:05:38 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
486 2012-04-21 08:12:47 Xunie has joined
487 2012-04-21 08:15:22 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
488 2012-04-21 08:15:46 Transisto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
489 2012-04-21 08:17:51 chrisb__ has joined
490 2012-04-21 08:17:53 Transisto has joined
491 2012-04-21 08:19:39 Bigpiggy01Mining has quit (Changing host)
492 2012-04-21 08:19:39 Bigpiggy01Mining has joined
493 2012-04-21 08:21:28 sirk390 has joined
494 2012-04-21 08:30:32 imsaguy has joined
495 2012-04-21 08:32:45 Joric has joined
496 2012-04-21 08:32:45 Joric has quit (Changing host)
497 2012-04-21 08:32:45 Joric has joined
498 2012-04-21 08:34:24 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: laanwj opened pull request 1129 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1129>
499 2012-04-21 08:35:52 <gmaxwell> If anyone cares: I have updated fedora 16 rpms for openssl with the recent openssl cve fix in them (plus enabling ECDSA, of course): http://people.xiph.org/~greg/openssl/fedora16/
500 2012-04-21 08:36:36 <gmaxwell> (fedora hasn't actually released the fix yet— it's still in their updates testing pipeline, my rpm is just theirs with ECDSA reenabled and -DPURIFY )
501 2012-04-21 08:36:57 <gmaxwell> (hmph, https link is better since people won't check signatures: https://people.xiph.org/~greg/openssl/fedora16/ )
502 2012-04-21 08:38:10 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
503 2012-04-21 08:39:07 molecular has joined
504 2012-04-21 08:49:47 capiscuas has quit (Quit: Leaving)
505 2012-04-21 08:52:50 seco has joined
506 2012-04-21 08:56:57 <seco> <luke-jr> so N-of-M not-necessarily-developers, paid a reasonable fee, with a week/month long warning to all clients with the key being recovered :P
507 2012-04-21 08:57:25 <seco> i thought about that idea of wallet.dat recovery again, and find any kind of centralisation very critical
508 2012-04-21 08:58:37 Blitzboom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
509 2012-04-21 08:59:06 Blitzboom has joined
510 2012-04-21 08:59:53 <seco> but sending an alert to the sending addresses of all coins received on the wallet (e.g. by storing last m used public addresses from where coins came from) with some kind of OTP, it should be enough to say: get N<M of those guys cou received coins together who give you the OTP, and you can recover your lost wallet.dat by -recover OTP1 OTP2 OTP3 ...  : wallet-owner and senders can only come together successfully if the wallet-owner is still the same, is
511 2012-04-21 08:59:53 <seco> nt it?
512 2012-04-21 09:00:10 <seco> (OTP= OneTimePassword)
513 2012-04-21 09:01:23 <seco> would need some kind of BIP, with that "user initited alert of wallet-recovery with generated bunch of OTPs", but however it is not bound to a central point
514 2012-04-21 09:02:47 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@pool-96-226-232-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net|brwyatt
515 2012-04-21 09:04:18 <seco> like only by getting 30% of the last Bitcoinusers from which you got your coins last, giving you theit wallet.dat-OTP for you, you could recover your lost wallet.dat
516 2012-04-21 09:10:01 <seco> some kind of bitcoinaddress-to-bitcoinaddress communication; Bitcoin chat lol
517 2012-04-21 09:10:18 * seco hides
518 2012-04-21 09:12:03 banshee12 has joined
519 2012-04-21 09:13:54 talpan has joined
520 2012-04-21 09:19:59 Xunie has quit (Quit: Can God microwave a taco so hot that not even *HE* can eat it without burns?)
521 2012-04-21 09:25:07 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
522 2012-04-21 09:25:39 copumpkin has joined
523 2012-04-21 09:26:09 davout has joined
524 2012-04-21 09:27:26 Joric has quit ()
525 2012-04-21 09:42:23 ThomasV has joined
526 2012-04-21 09:51:13 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
527 2012-04-21 09:59:04 m00p has joined
528 2012-04-21 10:10:54 setkeh` has joined
529 2012-04-21 10:12:34 setkeh` has quit (Client Quit)
530 2012-04-21 10:15:42 setkeh` has joined
531 2012-04-21 10:19:28 gp5st has joined
532 2012-04-21 10:24:06 Diablo-D3 has joined
533 2012-04-21 10:25:52 toffoo has joined
534 2012-04-21 10:27:55 Turingi has joined
535 2012-04-21 10:43:02 d4de has joined
536 2012-04-21 10:43:02 d4de has quit (Changing host)
537 2012-04-21 10:43:02 d4de has joined
538 2012-04-21 10:43:40 localhost has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
539 2012-04-21 10:45:53 davout has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
540 2012-04-21 10:50:48 localhost has joined
541 2012-04-21 10:51:42 datagutt has joined
542 2012-04-21 10:54:08 erle- has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
543 2012-04-21 10:55:38 setkeh` is now known as setkeh
544 2012-04-21 10:55:52 m00p has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
545 2012-04-21 10:56:01 coderrr has quit (Changing host)
546 2012-04-21 10:56:01 coderrr has joined
547 2012-04-21 10:56:01 coderrr has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
548 2012-04-21 10:57:41 machine1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
549 2012-04-21 10:58:45 m00p has joined
550 2012-04-21 11:02:22 erle- has joined
551 2012-04-21 11:07:05 joo___ has quit (Quit: leaving)
552 2012-04-21 11:08:00 machine1 has joined
553 2012-04-21 11:10:03 fimpfimp has joined
554 2012-04-21 11:10:56 guruvan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
555 2012-04-21 11:11:29 guruvan has joined
556 2012-04-21 11:16:09 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
557 2012-04-21 11:16:11 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: laanwj opened issue 1130 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1130>
558 2012-04-21 11:27:33 MrTiggr has joined
559 2012-04-21 11:30:05 16SAA1B1O has joined
560 2012-04-21 11:39:32 davout has joined
561 2012-04-21 11:39:39 davout has quit (Changing host)
562 2012-04-21 11:39:39 davout has joined
563 2012-04-21 11:41:57 Clipse has joined
564 2012-04-21 11:44:27 davout has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
565 2012-04-21 11:55:56 graingert has joined
566 2012-04-21 11:59:28 danbri has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
567 2012-04-21 11:59:37 danbri has joined
568 2012-04-21 12:06:01 t7 has joined
569 2012-04-21 12:06:11 rdponticelli has joined
570 2012-04-21 12:19:03 TD has joined
571 2012-04-21 12:25:01 ThomasV has joined
572 2012-04-21 12:45:17 TransistOrg has joined
573 2012-04-21 12:47:27 Transisto has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
574 2012-04-21 12:53:11 kish_ has joined
575 2012-04-21 12:53:23 Vitas has joined
576 2012-04-21 12:54:00 kish_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
577 2012-04-21 12:55:42 codemojo_ has joined
578 2012-04-21 12:55:45 malaimo_ has joined
579 2012-04-21 12:55:47 malaimo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
580 2012-04-21 12:55:47 codemojo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
581 2012-04-21 12:56:13 kish has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
582 2012-04-21 12:56:13 Vitas has quit (2!~kvirc@ip4-95-82-130-77.cust.nbox.cz|Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
583 2012-04-21 12:56:13 jarpiain has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
584 2012-04-21 12:56:17 jarpiain has joined
585 2012-04-21 12:56:44 jarpiain is now known as Guest35775
586 2012-04-21 12:58:09 kish has joined
587 2012-04-21 12:58:50 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
588 2012-04-21 12:59:30 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
589 2012-04-21 13:00:02 copumpkin has joined
590 2012-04-21 13:03:09 kish has joined
591 2012-04-21 13:03:49 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
592 2012-04-21 13:05:03 t7 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
593 2012-04-21 13:08:09 kish has joined
594 2012-04-21 13:08:51 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
595 2012-04-21 13:13:20 kish has joined
596 2012-04-21 13:14:02 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
597 2012-04-21 13:18:19 kish has joined
598 2012-04-21 13:19:03 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
599 2012-04-21 13:21:25 p0s has joined
600 2012-04-21 13:23:20 kish has joined
601 2012-04-21 13:24:02 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
602 2012-04-21 13:24:24 abracadab is now known as abracadabra
603 2012-04-21 13:25:12 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
604 2012-04-21 13:28:08 p0s has joined
605 2012-04-21 13:28:23 kish has joined
606 2012-04-21 13:28:46 chrisb__ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
607 2012-04-21 13:29:06 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
608 2012-04-21 13:33:24 kish has joined
609 2012-04-21 13:34:08 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
610 2012-04-21 13:34:47 davout has joined
611 2012-04-21 13:38:23 kish has joined
612 2012-04-21 13:38:24 t7 has joined
613 2012-04-21 13:38:44 davout has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
614 2012-04-21 13:39:05 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
615 2012-04-21 13:43:26 kish has joined
616 2012-04-21 13:44:09 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
617 2012-04-21 13:44:39 davout has joined
618 2012-04-21 13:48:26 kish has joined
619 2012-04-21 13:49:10 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
620 2012-04-21 13:53:24 kish has joined
621 2012-04-21 13:54:08 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
622 2012-04-21 13:58:25 kish has joined
623 2012-04-21 13:59:06 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
624 2012-04-21 14:03:30 kish has joined
625 2012-04-21 14:04:13 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
626 2012-04-21 14:08:30 kish has joined
627 2012-04-21 14:09:04 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
628 2012-04-21 14:13:29 kish has joined
629 2012-04-21 14:14:10 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
630 2012-04-21 14:14:23 Apexseals has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
631 2012-04-21 14:14:41 Apexseals has joined
632 2012-04-21 14:18:32 kish has joined
633 2012-04-21 14:19:15 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
634 2012-04-21 14:21:51 Joric has joined
635 2012-04-21 14:21:52 Joric has quit (Changing host)
636 2012-04-21 14:21:52 Joric has joined
637 2012-04-21 14:23:36 kish has joined
638 2012-04-21 14:24:02 dvide has joined
639 2012-04-21 14:24:18 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
640 2012-04-21 14:28:36 kish has joined
641 2012-04-21 14:29:24 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
642 2012-04-21 14:33:37 kish has joined
643 2012-04-21 14:34:18 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
644 2012-04-21 14:35:57 b4epoche has joined
645 2012-04-21 14:38:39 kish has joined
646 2012-04-21 14:39:21 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
647 2012-04-21 14:40:52 echelon has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
648 2012-04-21 14:42:19 davout has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
649 2012-04-21 14:43:41 kish has joined
650 2012-04-21 14:44:30 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
651 2012-04-21 14:47:30 ThomasV_ has joined
652 2012-04-21 14:47:42 ThomasV_ has quit (Client Quit)
653 2012-04-21 14:48:02 ThomasV has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
654 2012-04-21 14:48:21 ThomasV has joined
655 2012-04-21 14:48:40 kish has joined
656 2012-04-21 14:49:21 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
657 2012-04-21 14:53:42 kish has joined
658 2012-04-21 14:54:23 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
659 2012-04-21 14:56:26 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: If you can't laugh at yourself, make fun of other people.)
660 2012-04-21 14:58:43 kish has joined
661 2012-04-21 14:59:25 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
662 2012-04-21 15:03:43 kish has joined
663 2012-04-21 15:04:31 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
664 2012-04-21 15:06:00 echelon has joined
665 2012-04-21 15:08:42 kish has joined
666 2012-04-21 15:09:25 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
667 2012-04-21 15:10:43 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
668 2012-04-21 15:10:43 <gribble> 176613
669 2012-04-21 15:13:43 kish has joined
670 2012-04-21 15:14:29 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
671 2012-04-21 15:22:59 pecket has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
672 2012-04-21 15:24:07 kish has joined
673 2012-04-21 15:24:49 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
674 2012-04-21 15:24:50 bitvampire has joined
675 2012-04-21 15:29:07 kish has joined
676 2012-04-21 15:29:48 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
677 2012-04-21 15:34:08 kish has joined
678 2012-04-21 15:34:49 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
679 2012-04-21 15:35:18 bitvampire has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
680 2012-04-21 15:39:12 kish has joined
681 2012-04-21 15:39:54 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
682 2012-04-21 15:44:10 Cablesaurus has joined
683 2012-04-21 15:44:10 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
684 2012-04-21 15:44:10 Cablesaurus has joined
685 2012-04-21 15:44:12 kish has joined
686 2012-04-21 15:44:52 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
687 2012-04-21 15:49:13 kish has joined
688 2012-04-21 15:49:55 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
689 2012-04-21 15:54:18 kish has joined
690 2012-04-21 15:54:19 toffoo has quit ()
691 2012-04-21 15:55:00 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
692 2012-04-21 15:57:54 splatster has joined
693 2012-04-21 15:59:21 kish has joined
694 2012-04-21 16:00:03 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
695 2012-04-21 16:00:34 pusle has joined
696 2012-04-21 16:00:47 Sedra has joined
697 2012-04-21 16:03:16 Sedra- has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
698 2012-04-21 16:04:27 kish has joined
699 2012-04-21 16:05:16 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
700 2012-04-21 16:09:33 kish has joined
701 2012-04-21 16:10:10 kish is now known as Guest934
702 2012-04-21 16:19:01 phungus is now known as phungio
703 2012-04-21 16:19:05 phungi is now known as phungus
704 2012-04-21 16:21:34 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
705 2012-04-21 16:22:04 machine1 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
706 2012-04-21 16:23:50 pecket has joined
707 2012-04-21 16:28:01 machine1 has joined
708 2012-04-21 16:28:22 pecket has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
709 2012-04-21 16:30:34 m00p has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
710 2012-04-21 16:30:50 Nicksasa has quit (Read error: No route to host)
711 2012-04-21 16:36:34 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
712 2012-04-21 16:51:30 erle- has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
713 2012-04-21 16:51:35 ski_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
714 2012-04-21 16:53:27 ski_ has joined
715 2012-04-21 16:57:54 <Diablo-D3> everyone just sign this damned thing so we can fuck the banks https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/#!/petition/push-fannie-mae-and-freddie-mac-issue-principal-reductions-underwater-homeowners/qtS3crg7
716 2012-04-21 17:01:15 Zarutian has joined
717 2012-04-21 17:10:56 ThomasV has joined
718 2012-04-21 17:12:27 erle- has joined
719 2012-04-21 17:13:11 word has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
720 2012-04-21 17:13:32 word has joined
721 2012-04-21 17:19:26 p0s has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
722 2012-04-21 17:24:36 pecket has joined
723 2012-04-21 17:29:17 pecket has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
724 2012-04-21 17:32:16 pecket has joined
725 2012-04-21 17:36:26 toffoo has joined
726 2012-04-21 17:40:01 <t7> Diablo-D3: so they can post another stupid responce
727 2012-04-21 17:40:39 <k9quaint> Diablo-D3: sorry, I bought mortgage backed securities after they crashed
728 2012-04-21 17:40:45 <k9quaint> I don't want principle reductions
729 2012-04-21 17:41:11 <k9quaint> let them foreclose instead, screws the banks and freddie, bondholders get paid ;)
730 2012-04-21 17:42:01 <Diablo-D3> hehhhhhh
731 2012-04-21 17:45:27 <t7> entangled particles are the most stupid thing ever
732 2012-04-21 17:45:39 <t7> once you know the state of 1 know know the state of both
733 2012-04-21 17:45:43 <t7> but you cant set it
734 2012-04-21 17:45:55 <t7> good for random numbers i guess
735 2012-04-21 17:56:10 word_ has joined
736 2012-04-21 18:00:23 word has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
737 2012-04-21 18:08:39 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@pool-96-226-232-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net|brwyatt
738 2012-04-21 18:09:27 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
739 2012-04-21 18:10:57 <_W_> t7, not really - there's no need to entangle particles for randomness. If there's something unknown about a single particle, that's just as good as something unknown about two entangled particles
740 2012-04-21 18:11:20 <t7> distributed randomness ?
741 2012-04-21 18:11:31 <_W_> entanglement is just a "hey, look, quantum mechanics is counterintuitive", it can't actually be /used/ for anything
742 2012-04-21 18:11:52 <_W_> t7, pseudorandom does the job
743 2012-04-21 18:11:58 <_W_> just start out with the same seed
744 2012-04-21 18:12:04 word_ is now known as word
745 2012-04-21 18:12:19 <gmaxwell> _W_: well, quantum key distribution is at least kinda nifyt on theoretical grounds, even if it does totally fail on pratical engineering grounds.
746 2012-04-21 18:12:20 word has quit (Changing host)
747 2012-04-21 18:12:20 word has joined
748 2012-04-21 18:12:21 <_W_> also doesn't involve any physical processes, you can transmit the seed as plain information
749 2012-04-21 18:13:19 <_W_> gmaxwell, I don't see how. The security has to be the same as for any physical key, and you can just then actually /have/ a physical key and the entanglement is superfluous
750 2012-04-21 18:13:24 <t7> I did some crypto stuff for playing poker without a dealer
751 2012-04-21 18:13:48 <t7> using commutative crypto, it was really cool 'mental poker'
752 2012-04-21 18:13:51 kakobrekla has joined
753 2012-04-21 18:14:16 <kakobrekla> anyone seen this before?
754 2012-04-21 18:14:16 <kakobrekla> http://shrani.si/f/1b/qa/SWkTNoX/untitled.png
755 2012-04-21 18:14:22 <_W_> t7, yep, very interesting that you can in fact play fair poker without trust
756 2012-04-21 18:14:30 <gmaxwell> _W_: because no small seeded crypto system is provably secure, they all depend on the apparent hardness of varrious cipher structures.. and they do get broken from time to time.
757 2012-04-21 18:14:59 <gmaxwell> (one time pad is— but then you have a distribution problem with the pad)
758 2012-04-21 18:15:15 <_W_> gmaxwell, I mean, you can use whatever quantum data you need *at the origin* (the place where you would create the entanglement in the first place) and then the entanglement is superfluous, as you can just securely encode it
759 2012-04-21 18:15:40 <_W_> this is independent, with no relevance, to my comment to t7 about pseudorandomness
760 2012-04-21 18:16:01 random_cat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
761 2012-04-21 18:16:20 <gmaxwell> _W_: oh no, thats not so. The QKD channel is interception proof. (assuming the system doesn't have implementation bugs)  Effectively QKD gives you a DH like primitive which depends on the security of shoddy engineering vs shoddy math. ;)
762 2012-04-21 18:16:29 <_W_> if you  have some device containing entangled particles that can be read, said device must be protected just as good as, say, magnetic media that has the key encoded
763 2012-04-21 18:17:08 <_W_> gmaxwell, there is no channel. Information wise it is equivalent to two pieces of paper with the same writing on them separated by spacetime
764 2012-04-21 18:17:56 <gmaxwell> _W_: indeed, but the paper can keep growing forever, without risk of your CPRNG being compromised.
765 2012-04-21 18:18:05 <gmaxwell> (instead your QKD hardware gets compromised)
766 2012-04-21 18:18:10 <graingert> _W_: no it only needs to be protected while in use
767 2012-04-21 18:18:21 random_cat has joined
768 2012-04-21 18:18:25 <graingert> _W_: OTP needs to be protected during delivery
769 2012-04-21 18:18:31 <_W_> erm, you're saying some entanglement with non-finite information content? I am not aware of anything such being backed by current theory
770 2012-04-21 18:18:33 <gmaxwell> Vs a one time pad where some annoying courier has to keep carrying more paper.
771 2012-04-21 18:18:43 <gmaxwell> _W_: Here, read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_key_distribution#BB84_protocol:_Charles_H._Bennett_and_Gilles_Brassard_.281984.29
772 2012-04-21 18:18:50 <graingert> _W_: I don't think QKD uses entanglement
773 2012-04-21 18:18:54 <graingert> just polarization
774 2012-04-21 18:19:15 <gmaxwell> graingert: ... yes it does. hush. :)
775 2012-04-21 18:19:17 <_W_> it starts out badly, talking of using entanglement to "transmit the information"
776 2012-04-21 18:19:36 <_W_> graingert, polarization is one of the properties that can be entangled
777 2012-04-21 18:20:23 <gmaxwell> _W_: yea yea, ignore the crappy writing, it's wikipedia. I probably should have just linked you to a paper on the protocol, but I figured everyone _except_ you would get techbabbled at anything proper.
778 2012-04-21 18:20:49 <graingert> I was talking about BB84 protocol
779 2012-04-21 18:21:04 <graingert> which just uses non-orthogonal states
780 2012-04-21 18:21:20 kakobrekla has left ()
781 2012-04-21 18:22:14 <graingert> According to quantum mechanics (particularly quantum indeterminacy), no possible measurement distinguishes between the 4 different polarization states, as they are not all orthogonal. The only possible measurement is between any two orthogonal states (an orthonormal basis). So, for example, measuring in the rectilinear basis gives a result of horizontal or vertical. If the photon was created as horizontal or vertical (as a rectilinear eig
782 2012-04-21 18:22:16 <graingert> enstate) then this measures the correct state, but if it was created as 45° or 135° (diagonal eigenstates) then the rectilinear measurement instead returns either horizontal or vertical at random. Furthermore, after this measurement the photon is polarized in the state it was measured in (horizontal or vertical), with all information about its initial polarization lost.
783 2012-04-21 18:25:16 <graingert> although it's just a theory
784 2012-04-21 18:25:40 <_W_> gmaxwell, that seems to me to be independent of entanglement
785 2012-04-21 18:25:46 <graingert> yup
786 2012-04-21 18:28:17 talpan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
787 2012-04-21 18:29:21 <_W_> the no-cloning theorem only forbids the cloning of an unknown state. You can always just /read/ the state, /then/ clone it
788 2012-04-21 18:30:07 <_W_> (yes, this prevents you from giving the device on to its intended recipient - but you can just pretend to be that recipient now, so why would you bother)
789 2012-04-21 18:41:10 pklaus has joined
790 2012-04-21 18:42:20 <graingert> _W_: the public channel has to be absolutely public
791 2012-04-21 18:42:29 <graingert> _W_: so recording it in the blockchain would do it
792 2012-04-21 18:44:30 <gmaxwell> _W_: yes, bb84 is but E91 is not.
793 2012-04-21 18:45:44 <gmaxwell> _W_: as I said, it's effectively DH — with the same kind of properties except it depends on the engineering of your hardware rather than the believed hardness of some mathmatical puzzle.
794 2012-04-21 18:49:31 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
795 2012-04-21 18:50:47 b4epoche has joined
796 2012-04-21 18:52:54 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: laanwj opened pull request 1131 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1131>
797 2012-04-21 19:00:28 pklaus has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
798 2012-04-21 19:10:31 stalled has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
799 2012-04-21 19:16:37 <gmaxwell> :(  0.4% of binary downloaders download the signature files on sourceforge.
800 2012-04-21 19:19:24 <lianj> ^^
801 2012-04-21 19:22:22 ThomasV has joined
802 2012-04-21 19:26:22 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: IceChat - Keeping PC's cool since 2000)
803 2012-04-21 19:30:43 <t7> i build from source and inspect every line
804 2012-04-21 19:31:20 <t7> if they can change your sourceforge files, cant they change the sigs?
805 2012-04-21 19:35:00 <gmaxwell> t7: ...
806 2012-04-21 19:35:09 <gmaxwell> Thats why they're signatures— no, they can't change them.
807 2012-04-21 19:35:46 <t7> dont i need your public key?
808 2012-04-21 19:36:11 <gmaxwell> t7: Yes, but you can verify public keys out of band and hold them over time.
809 2012-04-21 19:37:49 splatster has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
810 2012-04-21 19:38:54 <gmaxwell> e.g. if you've validated almost any public key you can find a chain to give you high confidence of mine:  e.g. here is the path between me and the key used to sign OpenSSL: http://webware.lysator.liu.se/jc/wotsap/wots/latest/paths/0xB0413BFA-0xF295C759.png?size=2000x700
811 2012-04-21 19:39:13 splatster has joined
812 2012-04-21 19:39:55 <gmaxwell> It actually should be shorter, because I know Bradley Kuhn (he's in the third level up from the bottom) and I are cross signed, but for some reason this tool doesn't know that.
813 2012-04-21 19:40:29 osmosis has joined
814 2012-04-21 19:41:07 TransistOrg has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
815 2012-04-21 19:44:31 setkeh has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7)
816 2012-04-21 19:46:54 Transisto has joined
817 2012-04-21 19:48:11 setkeh has joined
818 2012-04-21 19:59:52 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
819 2012-04-21 20:11:05 Turingi has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
820 2012-04-21 20:14:35 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
821 2012-04-21 20:15:08 copumpkin has joined
822 2012-04-21 20:17:21 danbri has quit (Read error: No route to host)
823 2012-04-21 20:25:57 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
824 2012-04-21 20:27:06 <Diablo-D3> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77469.msg862654#msg862654
825 2012-04-21 20:27:46 danbri has joined
826 2012-04-21 20:35:22 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
827 2012-04-21 20:40:09 pusle has quit ()
828 2012-04-21 20:48:40 echelon has left ()
829 2012-04-21 20:51:22 andytoshi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
830 2012-04-21 21:01:51 danbri has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
831 2012-04-21 21:02:08 danbri has joined
832 2012-04-21 21:04:23 andytoshi has joined
833 2012-04-21 21:06:25 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
834 2012-04-21 21:20:22 <graingert> gmaxwell: what's the key for the arrows?
835 2012-04-21 21:20:35 <graingert> key as in color->semantic
836 2012-04-21 21:20:45 <graingert> not pub lickey
837 2012-04-21 21:21:28 <graingert> http://webware.lysator.liu.se/jc/wotsap/wots/latest/paths/0xF295C759-0xB0413BFA.png?size=2000x700
838 2012-04-21 21:22:09 <gmaxwell> ah, it's higlighting the strongest path and the strongest path (no hops in common) which is completely orthorgonal with the first path.
839 2012-04-21 21:22:10 sirk390 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
840 2012-04-21 21:22:16 <MC1984> gmaxwell how do i verify your builds against the signature?
841 2012-04-21 21:22:27 <graingert> gmaxwell: an arrow from a-> b means a signs b
842 2012-04-21 21:22:54 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
843 2012-04-21 21:23:06 <gmaxwell> graingert: yes.  Ah, actually on the graph you linked to there is only one path (from him to me)
844 2012-04-21 21:23:35 <graingert> I can spot 4 paths
845 2012-04-21 21:23:36 <gmaxwell> oh. hm. no there are two in that direction, I don't know why it didn't make both green.
846 2012-04-21 21:23:45 <graingert> green is the trust level
847 2012-04-21 21:24:06 <gmaxwell> graingert: I'm counting totally orthorgonal paths (no two people in common)
848 2012-04-21 21:24:14 <graingert> I see
849 2012-04-21 21:24:43 <gmaxwell> (otherwise when paths have someone in common that someone could be faking it and you couldn't tell)
850 2012-04-21 21:24:44 <graingert> any faqs on how to get into the WOT
851 2012-04-21 21:25:16 <gmaxwell> graingert: get signed by someone else in it.. There are keysigning events at most free software conferences, linux users groups, network operators events (like nanog).
852 2012-04-21 21:25:28 <graingert> ie are there any useful keysigining parties
853 2012-04-21 21:25:43 <gmaxwell> You create a key with your real identity on it, and you show up with slips of paper with the fingerprint on it.. show people your ID, and they later sign your key and you do the same in reverse.
854 2012-04-21 21:25:58 <graingert> I have been to a mini one in my uni
855 2012-04-21 21:26:04 <graingert> (very mini it was two people)
856 2012-04-21 21:26:13 <gmaxwell> there are many— about 60% of people at keysignings flake out and don't bother finishing it... but they work all the same.
857 2012-04-21 21:26:56 <gmaxwell> graingert: is there a linux users group near you? you can nag them to hold a keysigning and if they haven't done one in a long time they probably will.
858 2012-04-21 21:27:13 Nicksasa has joined
859 2012-04-21 21:27:13 Nicksasa has quit (Changing host)
860 2012-04-21 21:27:13 Nicksasa has joined
861 2012-04-21 21:27:14 <graingert> the slips of paper thing is hilarious, both because people do it and that it is actually necessary
862 2012-04-21 21:27:43 <gmaxwell> It works pretty well and it's a lot more secure than trying to sit there and sign things on your laptop.
863 2012-04-21 21:28:07 <gmaxwell> I have my fingerprint on my business cards, which makes things easier.
864 2012-04-21 21:29:01 <graingert> obviously. Moving ones key around is a bit silly
865 2012-04-21 21:29:20 <gmaxwell> (e.g. I don't have to plan to go to a keysigning.. I can just show up and I always have my fingerprint on paper)
866 2012-04-21 21:29:45 <graingert> yes I could do with business cards
867 2012-04-21 21:29:46 <gmaxwell> Some keysigning parties don't use the paper— they have people stand up and read off their fingerprint.. but thats way less efficient and I don't think its that common anymore.
868 2012-04-21 21:29:47 <graingert> I'm just too lazy
869 2012-04-21 21:30:02 <graingert> I hope they've stopped using keyID
870 2012-04-21 21:30:28 <gmaxwell> oh you mean using the 32bit IDs? I've never seen people only validate those at keysignings.
871 2012-04-21 21:31:01 <graingert> there was a nice paper on spoofing those
872 2012-04-21 21:31:17 <gmaxwell> yes, by the person on the hop nearest to me on the rightmost path in that graph
873 2012-04-21 21:31:36 <graingert> asheesh?
874 2012-04-21 21:31:37 <gmaxwell> (Asheesh Laroia)
875 2012-04-21 21:31:57 <graingert> http://www.asheesh.org/note/debian/short-key-ids-are-bad-news.html
876 2012-04-21 21:32:10 <graingert> although everyone trusts debian on their security
877 2012-04-21 21:32:35 <graingert> TL;DR: This now gives two results: gpg --recv-key 70096AD1
878 2012-04-21 21:32:45 <graingert> this should really be a concept in papers
879 2012-04-21 21:32:52 <graingert> abstracts are way too long these days
880 2012-04-21 21:34:17 <gmaxwell> well, the refresh is actually a vulnerabilitiy.
881 2012-04-21 21:37:39 sirk390 has joined
882 2012-04-21 21:40:07 <graingert> http://www.l3s.de/~olmedilla/events/MTW06_papers/presentation04/presentation04.html
883 2012-04-21 21:41:44 <gmaxwell> meh. if that interests you join #bitcoin-wot  ... but I'm mostly not enthused by wot systems. They have some usefulness but it's limited.
884 2012-04-21 21:41:54 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
885 2012-04-21 21:42:42 Detritus has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
886 2012-04-21 21:42:55 Detritus has joined
887 2012-04-21 21:43:46 <graingert> meh bitcoin wot
888 2012-04-21 21:43:55 <graingert> pgp is already big enough
889 2012-04-21 21:44:15 <graingert> it might be handy to support pgp->bitcoin and bitcoin->pgp WOT links
890 2012-04-21 21:44:25 <gmaxwell> the pgp wot is mostly useful to the extent that it's useful because the people using it follow some norms about what keys they'll sign.
891 2012-04-21 21:44:31 <graingert> and the best way to do that is probably through RDF and some sort of reasoner
892 2012-04-21 21:44:50 <graingert> yes the values are in the trust levels
893 2012-04-21 21:44:54 <graingert> and the semantics of those values
894 2012-04-21 21:45:34 <gmaxwell> So for the most part I know that pgp signatures mean these people me in person and showed state issued id of some kind.  When people don't do this, I see it happen (when they sign my key without checking) and I knot not to trust paths via them.
895 2012-04-21 21:45:59 <gmaxwell> But all it really does is confirmes identities.. if you try to use it for things beyond that— meh.
896 2012-04-21 21:46:24 <sipa> gmaxwell: actually, there a pgp path between us?
897 2012-04-21 21:48:29 Slix` has joined
898 2012-04-21 21:48:44 <gmaxwell> I don't think so— /me looks
899 2012-04-21 21:49:58 <gmaxwell> oh, there is!
900 2012-04-21 21:50:05 <gmaxwell> http://webware.lysator.liu.se/jc/wotsap/wots/latest/paths/0xB0413BFA-0x1DAAC974.png
901 2012-04-21 21:50:34 <gmaxwell> And two the other way: http://webware.lysator.liu.se/jc/wotsap/wots/latest/paths/0x1DAAC974-0xB0413BFA.png
902 2012-04-21 21:50:55 <Diablo-D3> what, are we playing six degrees of bacon?
903 2012-04-21 21:51:06 Detritus has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
904 2012-04-21 21:51:22 <gmaxwell> sipa: seems that Petr Machata either hasn't signed your key, or if he has this server doesn't know about the signature.
905 2012-04-21 21:51:29 Detritus has joined
906 2012-04-21 21:51:30 <sipa> Diablo-D3: six degrees of zimmerman
907 2012-04-21 21:51:47 <gmaxwell> Best pgp practice is that when you sign someone's key you don't post it yourself: instead you email it to them and let them post it.
908 2012-04-21 21:51:54 <sipa> gmaxwell: i participated in a keysigning at fosdem two years ago
909 2012-04-21 21:52:00 <sipa> yes, i know
910 2012-04-21 21:52:09 <gmaxwell> This proves that they controlled the relevant email address at that point in time.. but a lot of people don't bother pushing out the updated keys.
911 2012-04-21 21:52:11 <Diablo-D3> the BEST pgp practice is to not fucking sign keys
912 2012-04-21 21:52:21 <sipa> there's a script for that even
913 2012-04-21 21:52:40 <sipa> gmaxwell: email it encrypted to their key, even
914 2012-04-21 21:52:50 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: Are you feeling left out? want me to come up to maine and sign your key?
915 2012-04-21 21:52:57 <graingert> that's handy
916 2012-04-21 21:53:03 <graingert> it verifies their email also
917 2012-04-21 21:53:14 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: heh, no
918 2012-04-21 21:53:21 <neofutur> gmaxwell: http://webware.lysator.liu.se/jc/wotsap/wots/latest/paths/0xB0413BFA-0x690B4E07.png
919 2012-04-21 21:53:22 <Diablo-D3> I used to have a gpg key
920 2012-04-21 21:53:24 <neofutur> ;)
921 2012-04-21 21:53:25 <Diablo-D3> Im not sure where it went
922 2012-04-21 21:54:25 [Tycho] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
923 2012-04-21 21:54:33 splatster has quit (Quit: splatster)
924 2012-04-21 21:54:35 <sipa> gmaxwell: if you ever meet gavin or jeff in real life, get them to sign keys :)
925 2012-04-21 21:54:37 <graingert> I can be sure to trust you not to muchk up then
926 2012-04-21 21:54:57 <graingert> gmaxwell: did you not go to the world bitcoin conference by onlyonetv?
927 2012-04-21 21:55:00 <gmaxwell> sipa: yea, it's on my todo.
928 2012-04-21 21:55:50 <gmaxwell> Hm. someone should make a tool that analizes the WOT and bugs you about connections you would be expected to have but don't.
929 2012-04-21 21:56:00 Detritus has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
930 2012-04-21 21:56:05 Detritus has joined
931 2012-04-21 21:56:09 <Diablo-D3> ha ha you said anal
932 2012-04-21 21:56:26 <graingert> gmaxwell: well if that pgp-wot -> RDF was here it would totally work
933 2012-04-21 21:56:33 <graingert> as long as you remember to FOAF everyone
934 2012-04-21 21:56:52 Habbie has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
935 2012-04-21 21:57:31 <gmaxwell> graingert: well, for example, lots of regulars here are WOT disconnected— midnightmagic, luke, gavin, for example.
936 2012-04-21 21:57:38 <graingert> yes
937 2012-04-21 21:57:45 <graingert> but how would you know who should be linked?
938 2012-04-21 21:57:51 ThomasV has joined
939 2012-04-21 21:58:16 <gmaxwell> graingert: it wouldn't work for people who are completely disconnected. .. but e.g. most of the people I've signed in the strong set are bidi signed with some people I'm missing.
940 2012-04-21 21:59:33 <gmaxwell> Bradley Kuhn for example, who I know I exchanged with— but it must have fallen through at some point.
941 2012-04-21 22:00:11 <gmaxwell> (maybe the picture of me in my key blew up his autoemailing script. :) )
942 2012-04-21 22:00:41 <graingert> SELECT DISTINCT ?name ?key
943 2012-04-21 22:00:43 <graingert> WHERE {
944 2012-04-21 22:00:45 <graingert>      ?x rdf:type foaf:Person.
945 2012-04-21 22:00:47 <graingert>      ?x wot:hasKey ?key
946 2012-04-21 22:00:49 <graingert>      ?x foaf:knows {{your uri}}
947 2012-04-21 22:00:51 <graingert> }
948 2012-04-21 22:01:38 <sipa> gmaxwell: i have a picture in my key as well, and i did get over a hundred signatures via e-mail after fosdem two years ago
949 2012-04-21 22:01:57 <gmaxwell> graingert: ah, I see is the idea that the pgp WOT forms a backbone with these less trusted FOAF links at the edges?
950 2012-04-21 22:02:47 <gmaxwell> sipa: yep. You have a photo.
951 2012-04-21 22:03:38 <sipa> bah, i should change it :)
952 2012-04-21 22:05:06 Detritus has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
953 2012-04-21 22:05:41 <gmaxwell> mine is the same picture I have on journal articles, so I guess thats good.
954 2012-04-21 22:05:56 <gmaxwell> though it's old and I've unfortunately gained weight since then.
955 2012-04-21 22:07:30 [Tycho] has joined
956 2012-04-21 22:08:04 <sipa> created: 1999-11-27
957 2012-04-21 22:10:31 RazielZ has joined
958 2012-04-21 22:17:48 [Tycho] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
959 2012-04-21 22:19:11 Cablesaurus has joined
960 2012-04-21 22:19:11 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
961 2012-04-21 22:19:11 Cablesaurus has joined
962 2012-04-21 22:25:32 fimpfimp has quit (Quit: Leaving)
963 2012-04-21 22:26:35 sirk390 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
964 2012-04-21 22:26:48 sirk390 has joined
965 2012-04-21 22:27:43 d4de has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
966 2012-04-21 22:28:11 d4de has joined
967 2012-04-21 22:31:39 sirk390 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
968 2012-04-21 22:32:38 dwon has joined
969 2012-04-21 22:33:03 word has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
970 2012-04-21 22:40:03 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
971 2012-04-21 22:58:53 Joric has quit ()
972 2012-04-21 22:59:31 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
973 2012-04-21 23:02:57 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
974 2012-04-21 23:05:08 b4epoche has joined
975 2012-04-21 23:05:55 deoxxa has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
976 2012-04-21 23:06:58 deoxxa has joined
977 2012-04-21 23:14:54 <graingert> gmaxwell: yes
978 2012-04-21 23:15:29 <graingert> gmaxwell: although all it is is a serialization of PGP data to rdf
979 2012-04-21 23:15:31 <graingert> and it should all work
980 2012-04-21 23:19:34 [Tycho] has joined
981 2012-04-21 23:26:59 toffoo has quit ()
982 2012-04-21 23:31:46 Joric has joined
983 2012-04-21 23:34:35 erle- has quit (Quit: erle-)
984 2012-04-21 23:47:02 Guest934 has quit (Quit: Reconnecting)
985 2012-04-21 23:47:20 kish has joined
986 2012-04-21 23:49:14 macet has joined
987 2012-04-21 23:49:53 mmoya has joined
988 2012-04-21 23:53:24 banshee12 has quit ()
989 2012-04-21 23:56:45 Habbie has joined