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38 2012-04-22 03:31:07 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, sipa, luke-jr: for URI-parsing, I went looking at the "percent-encoding" scheme for guidance on reserved characters; it suggests that '-' is a reserved char, but one of the examples on the BIP page has "Luke-Jr" as a label.
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41 2012-04-22 03:31:37 <etotheipi_> are the Bitcoin URIs not strictly following percent-encoding? or is that an error on the BIP page?
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44 2012-04-22 03:35:52 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: '-' is not reservedâ¦
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48 2012-04-22 03:45:35 <etotheipi_> luke-jr: oh crap, I was looking at the "percent-encoding arbitrary data" section
49 2012-04-22 03:46:23 <etotheipi_> luke-jr: sorry for the false alarm. so to be clear, I should be following the "Precent-encoding reserved characters", correct? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percent-encoding#Percent-encoding_reserved_characters)
50 2012-04-22 03:46:45 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: rather, you should be reading the actual RFC :p
51 2012-04-22 03:47:18 <etotheipi_> well, okay... RFC 3986?
52 2012-04-22 03:48:23 ahbritto has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
53 2012-04-22 03:49:16 <etotheipi_> so are newlines allowed?
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55 2012-04-22 03:57:22 <etotheipi_> so is there a hex-form of the amount?
56 2012-04-22 03:57:31 <etotheipi_> there's only decimal forms in the examples
57 2012-04-22 04:00:15 <sipa> etotheipi_: those were removed in BIP 21
58 2012-04-22 04:00:19 <sipa> no?
59 2012-04-22 04:01:07 <etotheipi_> it's still listed in the BNF grammar rules: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/URI_Scheme
60 2012-04-22 04:01:24 <etotheipi_> s/rules/list/g
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62 2012-04-22 04:03:02 <sipa> why is there a copy of an outdated BIP on the wiki?
63 2012-04-22 04:03:12 <splatster> [Tycho]: Will Deepbit -ever- start using sendmany?
64 2012-04-22 04:03:29 <sipa> it even says that it's outdated and wrong
65 2012-04-22 04:03:37 <sipa> please just delete it
66 2012-04-22 04:03:45 <etotheipi_> sipa: SOB
67 2012-04-22 04:03:55 <sipa> sob?
68 2012-04-22 04:03:56 <etotheipi_> alright, looking at the correct one now
69 2012-04-22 04:04:02 <etotheipi_> sipa: not you...
70 2012-04-22 04:04:12 <etotheipi_> I'm just swearing because I have been digging through the wrong one for an hour
71 2012-04-22 04:05:13 <splatster> Can we patch the client to not include 1vaynert TXs in the memory pool?
72 2012-04-22 04:05:37 <splatster> And I'm actually completely serious.
73 2012-04-22 04:05:39 <etotheipi_> who is that vaynert guy, anyway?
74 2012-04-22 04:05:59 <splatster> etotheipi_: The 1Vaynert addy is that of deepbit
75 2012-04-22 04:06:24 <splatster> and they refuse to change their code to use sendmany instead of taking up 27% of all the TXs in the network.
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77 2012-04-22 04:09:37 <splatster> etotheipi_: Small excerpt from #bitcoin-watch of their most recent payout: http://pastie.org/pastes/3831739/text
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80 2012-04-22 04:19:16 <etotheipi_> so there is no longer exponents used in any amounts in the URIs?
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84 2012-04-22 04:40:37 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: BIP 20 is the correct one. BIP 21 is just a poor attempt at trolling.
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87 2012-04-22 04:55:35 <etotheipi_> any reason you couldn't pass 50kB of data through a URI?
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89 2012-04-22 04:58:27 <deoxxa> it's silly?
90 2012-04-22 04:59:49 <etotheipi_> I'm pondering if it would be possible to do signature collecting via URIs... but that could require moving a LOT of data through them
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92 2012-04-22 05:01:13 <gmaxwell> IE has a 64k limit on URLs IIRC.
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94 2012-04-22 05:02:00 <etotheipi_> user create new multi-sig-spend tx, signs it, then creates a BIP10 packet and encodes it into a URI "bitcoin:message=signthis&tx=<shitloadofdata>"
95 2012-04-22 05:02:01 <gmaxwell> (I wanted to do some horrible thing involving embedding downloadable code in an HTML rendering of an RFC using datauris.. and it almost worked except for IE's size limit)
96 2012-04-22 05:02:27 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell: you have experience with everything
97 2012-04-22 05:02:35 <etotheipi_> thanks for being so resourceful! :)
98 2012-04-22 05:03:12 <etotheipi_> actually... it might still work ,as long as it's simple multisig with only a few inputs
99 2012-04-22 05:03:18 <gmaxwell> I think it might actually work for what you're suggesting, but you could potentially run into unpredictable falures when you had a lot of data.
100 2012-04-22 05:03:29 <gmaxwell> yea... I was thinking basically the same thing.
101 2012-04-22 05:04:02 <etotheipi_> but basically you click on the URI, the user is presented with the details of the multi-sig, then they sign it and it spits out another URI with their extra sig: they copy it into a reply email
102 2012-04-22 05:04:49 <gmaxwell> Instead it should embed the data in pictures of cats, and then the users can just forward around the cat pictures. This better matches the typical internet operational expirence.
103 2012-04-22 05:05:00 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell: lol
104 2012-04-22 05:05:09 <etotheipi_> steganography has its limits
105 2012-04-22 05:05:19 <etotheipi_> at least if you want to maintain the cuteness of the feline pictures
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108 2012-04-22 05:06:19 <gmaxwell> just send REALLY BIG pictures.
109 2012-04-22 05:06:50 <gmaxwell> "Thats not a 10gigapixel cat picture, thats my wallet!"
110 2012-04-22 05:07:39 <etotheipi_> well, there's always plenty of space in 100 hours of Nyan cat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA5DsLzSVrk
111 2012-04-22 05:08:44 <ThomasV> nyan cat can be compressed
112 2012-04-22 05:09:29 <gmaxwell> Hm. How does one go about convincing a major modern art gallery to put Nyan cat on display?
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115 2012-04-22 05:26:40 <TuxBlackEdo> gmaxwell++
116 2012-04-22 05:28:13 <TuxBlackEdo> etotheipi_, there's nothing like nyan cat rave http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpBHsAFMyow
117 2012-04-22 05:28:28 * TuxBlackEdo does the fist bump
118 2012-04-22 05:34:15 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: jgarzik opened issue 1132 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1132>
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129 2012-04-22 06:32:03 <jgarzik> w00t. Got -Wall warning count down to 3. The sign comparison beast has been slain. And only two bugs that just barely missed being remotely exploitable.
130 2012-04-22 06:32:41 <jgarzik> atoi(http Content-Length" header) for one, sigh
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176 2012-04-22 09:23:13 <wumpus> jgarzik: great!
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206 2012-04-22 12:55:30 <occulta> anyone fancy mining on testnet for 10minutes?
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215 2012-04-22 13:06:09 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa opened pull request 1133 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1133>
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227 2012-04-22 13:26:08 <occulta> Hi, i am trying to run bitcoind -testnet -daemon, but getting this error
228 2012-04-22 13:26:15 <occulta> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'boost::exception_detail::clone_impl<boost::exception_detail::error_info_injector<boost::system::system_error> >'
229 2012-04-22 13:26:15 <occulta> what(): Address already in use
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232 2012-04-22 13:30:27 <sipa> occulta: that means another bitcoin instance is already running
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234 2012-04-22 13:30:49 <occulta> its not though, but it might be because i set rpcport in .conf and used -testnet
235 2012-04-22 13:31:03 <sipa> what did you set rpcport to?
236 2012-04-22 13:31:04 <occulta> i am trying to mine on testnet with cgminer, but cant get it to work
237 2012-04-22 13:31:31 <occulta> testnet one, 1833 or w.e
238 2012-04-22 13:31:50 <sipa> 18333 ?
239 2012-04-22 13:31:55 <occulta> do i need to place bitcoin.conf in another folder?
240 2012-04-22 13:32:01 <sipa> that's the p2p port
241 2012-04-22 13:32:11 <occulta> o right
242 2012-04-22 13:32:15 <sipa> it won't work if you set the rpc port and p2p port to the same thing
243 2012-04-22 13:32:38 <occulta> so, what should i be doing, editing bitcoin.conf to have rpcuser / rpcpass / rpcport ?
244 2012-04-22 13:33:13 <sipa> you just need rpcuser and rpcpass
245 2012-04-22 13:33:52 <sipa> and start with -testnet
246 2012-04-22 13:34:04 <sipa> shouldn't need to change anything else
247 2012-04-22 13:34:05 <occulta> ok
248 2012-04-22 13:34:32 <occulta> then cgminer i just do ./cgminer -user= -pass= and i guess port?
249 2012-04-22 13:34:54 <sipa> rpc port is 8332 by default, both for testnet and mainnet
250 2012-04-22 13:35:07 <sipa> wait, sec
251 2012-04-22 13:35:28 <sipa> yes, indeed
252 2012-04-22 13:35:43 <occulta> hm
253 2012-04-22 13:37:14 <sipa> so really the only thing you should change at all, is pass -testnet to bitcoind
254 2012-04-22 13:37:39 <occulta> cgminer looks for pools? at a url
255 2012-04-22 13:37:44 <occulta> i need to run like 127.0.0.1 ?
256 2012-04-22 13:37:47 <sipa> yes
257 2012-04-22 13:38:04 <occulta> ok let me test that
258 2012-04-22 13:40:29 <occulta> thankyou sipa, i got it working
259 2012-04-22 13:40:46 <occulta> Connected to http://127.0.0.1:8332 without LP as user testnet
260 2012-04-22 13:41:08 <occulta> takes time for GPU to get upto speed?
261 2012-04-22 13:41:16 <sipa> no
262 2012-04-22 13:41:28 <occulta> only 69% for me
263 2012-04-22 13:41:34 <sipa> 69% of wat?
264 2012-04-22 13:41:37 <occulta> 158mhs
265 2012-04-22 13:41:48 <occulta> GPU 0: 67.0C 70% | 157.7/158.4Mh/s | A:1 R:0 HW:0 U:0.60/m I: 2
266 2012-04-22 13:42:16 <sipa> ah, no idea about cgminer's output
267 2012-04-22 13:42:26 <sipa> that number could well be its fan speed
268 2012-04-22 13:42:43 <occulta> ah, im just comparing to hashcat dont know why lol
269 2012-04-22 13:42:55 <occulta> that gets a bit faster as it heats up
270 2012-04-22 13:43:03 <sipa> what's hashcat?
271 2012-04-22 13:43:08 <occulta> nominally runs @ about 70%
272 2012-04-22 13:43:15 <sipa> ah
273 2012-04-22 13:43:17 <occulta> hash cracking app, probably the fastest
274 2012-04-22 13:43:52 <sipa> ok
275 2012-04-22 13:43:53 <occulta> thanks tho, much faster than my CPU lol!
276 2012-04-22 13:44:01 <setkeh> hey guys im kinda new to bitcoin and programming for it can someone please point me in the write direction fo making a page simaler to this http://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/ticker/ i heave read the wiki articles on IO.Sock but couldent make much of them ideas would be great thanks
277 2012-04-22 13:44:40 <occulta> pretty sure thats just using gox API setkeh
278 2012-04-22 13:45:16 <setkeh> occulta: i have a key but im not 100% sure where to start the coding and what lang
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280 2012-04-22 13:45:50 <sipa> setkeh: what languages do you know?
281 2012-04-22 13:45:56 <occulta> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/MtGox/API/HTTP/v1
282 2012-04-22 13:45:59 <occulta> HTTP
283 2012-04-22 13:46:10 <occulta> this is for the websocket
284 2012-04-22 13:46:11 <occulta> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/MtGox/API/Streaming
285 2012-04-22 13:47:16 <setkeh> sipa: a little bit pf php quite good at html/css
286 2012-04-22 13:47:27 <setkeh> bit of php*
287 2012-04-22 13:47:44 <occulta> there is a PHP snippet at the bottom of that HTTP link
288 2012-04-22 13:48:57 <setkeh> ty dude ill read them again :D
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293 2012-04-22 14:00:01 <setkeh> occulta: do you know of a working example of the streaming that displays the ticker so i can better understand how it works ??
294 2012-04-22 14:00:16 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: btw, turns out that i0coin crash I kept seeing is caused by DNS failures looking up pool.ntp.org - apparently i0coin gets its time from NTP rather than from the network >_<
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296 2012-04-22 14:14:41 <setkeh> sipa: do you know of a working example of the streaming that displays the ticker so i can better understand how it works ??
297 2012-04-22 14:18:28 <sipa> setkeh: not really, sorry
298 2012-04-22 14:20:26 <setkeh> sipa: np ty
299 2012-04-22 14:38:55 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1134 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1134>
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303 2012-04-22 14:49:20 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: luke-jr opened pull request 1135 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1135>
304 2012-04-22 14:50:11 <sipa> luke-jr: quite sure any optimizing compiler prevents the temporaries from being created in the first place
305 2012-04-22 14:50:28 <sipa> at least for primitive types
306 2012-04-22 14:50:46 <luke-jr> sipa: maybe, but even if so, still best to cleanup the code :p
307 2012-04-22 14:51:00 <luke-jr> surprisingly, there were some real object types being post-incremented
308 2012-04-22 14:52:54 <sipa> i don't think it makes any difference in the generated object code
309 2012-04-22 14:52:57 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@pool-96-226-232-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net|brwyatt
310 2012-04-22 14:53:38 <luke-jr> good idea
311 2012-04-22 14:54:11 <sipa> (quite sure i wondered about that myself some 10 years ago, and compared the generated code for pre and postincrement in a C program)
312 2012-04-22 14:54:21 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1136 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1136>
313 2012-04-22 14:57:50 <sipa> in fact, i expect that writing T a = b; ++b;, and not using a anywhere else also gets removed by an optimizer, unless the copy constructor of T had side effects
314 2012-04-22 15:01:15 <luke-jr> changes addrman, bitcoinrpc, db, guiutil, keystore, main, net, script, wallet, walletdb
315 2012-04-22 15:08:24 * luke-jr wonders if there's a way to get objdump to omit specific addresses :/
316 2012-04-22 15:10:00 dwon has joined
317 2012-04-22 15:10:58 sirk390 has joined
318 2012-04-22 15:11:37 <sipa> luke-jr: can you paste the objdump diff?
319 2012-04-22 15:13:13 <wumpus> pre or post increment only makes a different for overloaded operators
320 2012-04-22 15:13:43 <wumpus> (efficiency-wise)... not for built-in types in the most common case
321 2012-04-22 15:14:51 <wumpus> I'm not sure it warrants changing all over the code, unless you can show it really makes things faster
322 2012-04-22 15:16:09 <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/preinc.bin.diff.bz2
323 2012-04-22 15:16:41 <luke-jr> wumpus: most code cleanup has no effect at all, but that's the purpose of 0.6.1â¦
324 2012-04-22 15:17:22 * luke-jr notes wumpus's code was generally pretty clean already, in this respect ;)
325 2012-04-22 15:17:56 <wumpus> yes, I tend to use preincrement by habit
326 2012-04-22 15:18:28 <sipa> i don't consider changing postincrement into preincrement really a code cleanup, more like a personal preference or coding style
327 2012-04-22 15:18:39 <sipa> unless of course you can show that there's a real difference
328 2012-04-22 15:20:10 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened issue 1137 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1137>
329 2012-04-22 15:20:14 guruvan has joined
330 2012-04-22 15:20:36 <wumpus> yeah... we're going too far into bikeshedding territory
331 2012-04-22 15:21:03 <luke-jr> sipa: using postincrement except when you actually need it, is like having unused variables sitting around IMO
332 2012-04-22 15:21:04 <wumpus> like diapolo with his 'lets remove a space'... :/
333 2012-04-22 15:21:10 <luke-jr> XD
334 2012-04-22 15:21:25 <wumpus> btw why do we have this braindead loop() macro
335 2012-04-22 15:21:34 <wumpus> isn't C++ syntax enough?
336 2012-04-22 15:21:38 <sipa> wumpus: no idea, never used it
337 2012-04-22 15:21:45 * luke-jr is a fan of Qt's 'forever' statement.
338 2012-04-22 15:21:56 <wumpus> it's defined as for(;;)... which is the same as while(true)..
339 2012-04-22 15:22:04 <wumpus> anyway, there's lots of ways to express it
340 2012-04-22 15:22:21 <luke-jr> http://www.qtcentre.org/threads/21722-why-Qt-s-forever-macro-is-for(-)-rather-than-while(true)
341 2012-04-22 15:22:24 occulta has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
342 2012-04-22 15:22:45 <wumpus> we can't use a qt statement in core code luke-jr
343 2012-04-22 15:22:53 <wumpus> at least that's some kind of standard
344 2012-04-22 15:23:21 <luke-jr> true
345 2012-04-22 15:23:26 <sipa> nothing an ifndef/define can't solve, but i don't think it's really necessary
346 2012-04-22 15:23:30 <wumpus> and compilers really do optimize the logic in while(true) away
347 2012-04-22 15:23:44 <wumpus> so there is no efficiency reason to simply use it
348 2012-04-22 15:23:48 <wumpus> +not
349 2012-04-22 15:26:04 sirk390 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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354 2012-04-22 15:45:48 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: luke-jr opened issue 1138 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1138>
355 2012-04-22 15:48:15 DiabloD3 has joined
356 2012-04-22 15:50:27 sirk390 has joined
357 2012-04-22 15:50:53 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1139 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1139>
358 2012-04-22 15:51:41 guruvan has joined
359 2012-04-22 15:54:12 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/208427
360 2012-04-22 15:56:02 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell, do you think this size actually matters if it's using a custom URI handler? I mean there's no limit on the command line
361 2012-04-22 15:56:23 <etotheipi_> perhaps it's only relevant if IE is expected to open the link
362 2012-04-22 15:57:32 <wumpus> well if you see how much data:... URLs are used these days I think the maximum URL size is huge in modern browsers
363 2012-04-22 15:58:00 * luke-jr doesn't see anyone but himself use data: URIs, and only for small snippetsâ¦
364 2012-04-22 15:58:07 <etotheipi_> wumpus, yesterday I had the idea that URIs could be used to do signature collection
365 2012-04-22 15:58:14 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: odd.. I'm pretty sure that I found that the largest data uri that worked was about 64k.. so perhaps there are multiple limits.
366 2012-04-22 15:58:20 <wumpus> limited to 32Kb is IE8
367 2012-04-22 15:58:43 <wumpus> but not in IE9+
368 2012-04-22 15:58:45 <etotheipi_> you jam 10 kB into an email URL that includes the tx, script and a list of signatures. click on it and it pops up in your browser
369 2012-04-22 15:58:56 <etotheipi_> s/browser/bitcoin client/g
370 2012-04-22 15:59:11 <etotheipi_> then you sign it and it spits out a new URL to copy into another email
371 2012-04-22 15:59:55 <wumpus> 10kB should work, although I'm not sure for an external handler... to be sure it would need thorough testing with many browsers and OSes...
372 2012-04-22 16:00:04 <luke-jr> except email lines are limited to 77 chars ;)
373 2012-04-22 16:00:37 <etotheipi_> luke-jr: what do you mean? You can surely use URLs in email links that are longer than 77 chars
374 2012-04-22 16:00:51 <wumpus> sure, if you use html mail
375 2012-04-22 16:00:57 <luke-jr> etotheipi_: email best practices are no longer than 77 characters per line
376 2012-04-22 16:01:17 <luke-jr> oh, html mail
377 2012-04-22 16:01:18 <wumpus> in plain text mail it'd be painful
378 2012-04-22 16:01:21 <jgarzik> [WTS] Several bitcoin-related, forex-related domains - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77684.0
379 2012-04-22 16:01:25 Joric has joined
380 2012-04-22 16:01:38 <etotheipi_> true. if this happened to hit a non-html mail server the user would be overwhelmed
381 2012-04-22 16:01:55 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
382 2012-04-22 16:02:12 <TheSeven> "However, the POST method is not limited by the size of the URL for submitting name/value pairs. These pairs are transferred in the header and not in the URL." - aha. they seem to know what they're talking about.
383 2012-04-22 16:03:39 <wumpus> can't post to external URL handlers though :/
384 2012-04-22 16:04:10 <etotheipi_> this is where I'm confused: if you register your app with the OS, doesn't all the data in the URI essentially get passed via command line?
385 2012-04-22 16:04:30 <etotheipi_> I guess maybe testing would be the best way to answer the questions
386 2012-04-22 16:04:45 b4epoche has joined
387 2012-04-22 16:05:01 <wumpus> yes, the URL is passed on the command line, but there may be (intended or unintended) limits in varous places along the way
388 2012-04-22 16:05:17 <wumpus> it is the only way
389 2012-04-22 16:05:40 <etotheipi_> it might be worth the testing ... I like the elegance of being able to send sig-collection emails with clickable link
390 2012-04-22 16:07:19 pusle has joined
391 2012-04-22 16:07:46 <etotheipi_> thunderbird gives me the option of sending emails in both plaintext and html form
392 2012-04-22 16:08:15 <etotheipi_> does that mean that I could include the link in the html version, and a nonlink (+warning) in the plaintext version? I don't know how email headers work
393 2012-04-22 16:08:38 <wumpus> yes, the html and text version are separate MIME attachments to the mail
394 2012-04-22 16:08:44 <wumpus> they can be completely different
395 2012-04-22 16:09:26 <sipa> i often get mails "Your e-mail client cannot handle HTML mail, go to [url] to read this.", just because it shows the text version by default
396 2012-04-22 16:09:41 <wumpus> so the text version could contain a "copy paste this" and the html a clickable link..
397 2012-04-22 16:10:45 <etotheipi_> well for 10kB+ of data, I don't think it should ever show up in the non-html version
398 2012-04-22 16:10:51 <wumpus> yeah, most clients show the html version by default
399 2012-04-22 16:11:48 <luke-jr> s/most clients/Microsoft clients/
400 2012-04-22 16:12:11 <sipa> most clients in general
401 2012-04-22 16:12:19 <wumpus> webmail clients such as gmail/hotmail as well
402 2012-04-22 16:12:39 <sipa> most graphical client, i might add
403 2012-04-22 16:12:42 <sipa> +s
404 2012-04-22 16:34:08 <Joric> gmaxwell, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77587.0
405 2012-04-22 16:36:50 toffoo has quit ()
406 2012-04-22 16:39:06 <Joric> etotheipi_, hope you don't have anything against javascript implementation? i wrote it just for fun
407 2012-04-22 16:41:58 paraipan_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
408 2012-04-22 16:46:43 <etotheipi_> Joric: what did you write?
409 2012-04-22 16:46:49 paraipan_ has joined
410 2012-04-22 16:46:53 <etotheipi_> did you write the brainwallet website?
411 2012-04-22 16:47:17 <Joric> etotheipi_, https://github.com/brainwallet/brainwallet.github.com/blob/master/js/armory.js
412 2012-04-22 16:47:57 <Joric> i don't really like GPL3 and see no reason for relicensing js made from scratch
413 2012-04-22 16:48:27 <etotheipi_> so that is yours?
414 2012-04-22 16:48:30 <Joric> yep
415 2012-04-22 16:48:35 <etotheipi_> ahh, I was wondering
416 2012-04-22 16:48:57 <etotheipi_> I have no experience with JS, besides some stuff I did with it when I was 12 trying to make a shitty webpage
417 2012-04-22 16:49:13 <Joric> me too
418 2012-04-22 16:53:10 <Joric> thought github supports ssl pages but it doesn't so it become a really bad idea
419 2012-04-22 16:58:45 <wumpus> yes it doesn't, it's a pity
420 2012-04-22 16:59:59 <Eliel> ssl unfortunately requires a different certificate and IP address for each subdomain it's used on.
421 2012-04-22 17:00:29 <wumpus> that only applies to top-level domains though, you can have wildcard certs
422 2012-04-22 17:00:33 <wumpus> for subdomains...
423 2012-04-22 17:00:42 <gmaxwell> Eliel: for subdomains you can happily use wildcard certs these days.
424 2012-04-22 17:00:55 <gmaxwell> Browsers old enough to not support them won't run most modern sites regardless.
425 2012-04-22 17:01:58 <wumpus> google does that with .appspot for example
426 2012-04-22 17:02:25 <Eliel> wumpus: ah, that's good to know.
427 2012-04-22 17:02:38 <Eliel> wumpus: I guess that means they can all run from the same IP-address as well?
428 2012-04-22 17:02:55 <wumpus> would be great if SNI was adopted quicker though...
429 2012-04-22 17:03:05 <wumpus> yes, they could
430 2012-04-22 17:04:28 Blitzboom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
431 2012-04-22 17:05:03 <luke-jr> Joric: what about GPL3?
432 2012-04-22 17:05:30 Blitzboom has joined
433 2012-04-22 17:05:30 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
434 2012-04-22 17:05:30 Blitzboom has joined
435 2012-04-22 17:08:08 <Joric> luke-jr, why bitcoin is not GPL3?
436 2012-04-22 17:08:43 <luke-jr> Joric: because GPLv3 would be an ugly license for something like bitcoind
437 2012-04-22 17:08:55 <luke-jr> Joric: libbitcoin is AGPLv3 tho
438 2012-04-22 17:09:15 <gmaxwell> The official bitcoin client is a reference implementation. I'd much rather people copy code from it than implement it incorrectly because they were only motivated to rewrite parts for licensing reasons.
439 2012-04-22 17:10:06 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell: that's where I'm headed, I think
440 2012-04-22 17:10:15 <luke-jr> Joric: even GNU admits that more liberal copylefts are better for stuff that needs to gain wide adoption
441 2012-04-22 17:10:57 <etotheipi_> I could spend months writing the networking engine, and in the end I'll only have a buggy, insecure, blockchain-forking implementation
442 2012-04-22 17:11:13 <etotheipi_> (well, if I spent months, I'd hope it wouldn't be that bad...)
443 2012-04-22 17:11:46 <gmaxwell> Well, I do very much do want people to reimplement bitcoinâ but it should be because they want to, and because they're going to put in the work required to get it right.
444 2012-04-22 17:11:56 <gmaxwell> And right, if you spent months on it you'd get it right.
445 2012-04-22 17:12:16 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell: it actually sounds very interesting, but I have so many other priorities, and taking months to reimplementing that part is not one of them
446 2012-04-22 17:12:56 <gmaxwell> ::nods:: In any case, thats why you can copy the code: if you don't have the time or interest to write it correctly yourself, by all means copy.
447 2012-04-22 17:13:54 <etotheipi_> well I was looking more towards libcoin which *sounds* more modularized/appropriate for this kind of isolated-component-extraction
448 2012-04-22 17:14:04 <etotheipi_> but I haven't looked enough at either codebase to know for sure
449 2012-04-22 17:15:19 <luke-jr> I like Gavin's blockchain-feeder node idea
450 2012-04-22 17:16:12 <luke-jr> connect to it, get a bunch of blocks both valid and invalid
451 2012-04-22 17:19:21 <Joric> gmaxwell, it's getting kind of monstrous http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/4180/30768852.png
452 2012-04-22 17:19:50 <Joric> have to make it easier )
453 2012-04-22 17:19:57 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
454 2012-04-22 17:20:34 dvide has joined
455 2012-04-22 17:22:49 Yeah has joined
456 2012-04-22 17:23:37 <Joric> there are 20 frames in the each slot the next step is probably take base20( H(R+R2) ) but it already looks scary
457 2012-04-22 17:23:47 <Yeah> Hi, any chance armory be the default bitcoin client?
458 2012-04-22 17:25:16 <Joric> or maybe use H(R + R2 + frame1), H(R + R2 + frame2), H(R + R2 + frame3)
459 2012-04-22 17:25:41 <luke-jr> Joric: stick to hexâ¦
460 2012-04-22 17:26:01 <luke-jr> Joric: might also be handy to give the user the commands they can use to verify results
461 2012-04-22 17:27:58 <gmaxwell> Joric: H(R + R2 + frame1) has the problem that you can't disclose R until you're done using it.
462 2012-04-22 17:30:18 <devrandom> gmaxwell: luke-jr: LXC support for gitian... https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder
463 2012-04-22 17:31:54 <luke-jr> devrandom: how about ruby-free? <.<
464 2012-04-22 17:32:15 <devrandom> luke-jr: you are the only one asking for that... ;)
465 2012-04-22 17:32:20 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: you can disclose H(R)
466 2012-04-22 17:32:36 <gmaxwell> Sure. You must disclose H(R) before the user tells you R2.
467 2012-04-22 17:32:55 <gmaxwell> Otherwise you can choose R such that it gives spins which are bad for the user.
468 2012-04-22 17:34:06 <luke-jr> devrandom: would be nice if you could just configure LXC vs KVM in one place
469 2012-04-22 17:34:37 <devrandom> luke-jr: after you build the base vms, you just set USE_LXC=1 in env, and that's it
470 2012-04-22 17:34:49 <luke-jr> devrandom: every boot⦠:p
471 2012-04-22 17:36:42 <Joric> it comes to base20 anyway or i should change the scheme
472 2012-04-22 17:37:26 <etotheipi_> Yeah: I hope so :) but there's lots of work left to be done before then
473 2012-04-22 17:38:09 <devrandom> luke-jr: I'd like to try to eliminate all the sudo calls. recent distributions allow lxc-start for non-root users
474 2012-04-22 17:39:10 <devrandom> not sure how to handle copying of the guest rootfs without sudo
475 2012-04-22 17:39:33 <luke-jr> devrandom: btw, this is the line I replaced the cp with:
476 2012-04-22 17:39:34 <luke-jr> system! "qemu-img create -f qcow2 -o backing_file=base-#{suitearch}.qcow2 target-#{suitearch}.qcow2"
477 2012-04-22 17:39:46 <Yeah> etotheipi_: great. i just don't understand why you want reimplement the network. why not just use bitcoin network implementation?
478 2012-04-22 17:40:09 <luke-jr> Yeah: which one?
479 2012-04-22 17:40:36 <luke-jr> Yeah: also, see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/pull/32
480 2012-04-22 17:40:54 <Yeah> armory need bitcoin client to work
481 2012-04-22 17:41:01 <devrandom> luke-jr: I'll put that in. lxc takes an directory rather than an image file, so can't copy without root. but maybe I can mount an image using loop device.
482 2012-04-22 17:41:26 <luke-jr> devrandom: maybe
483 2012-04-22 17:41:48 Clipse has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
484 2012-04-22 17:44:14 <Vitas> hello guys anybody wants to point me to some tutorial on compiling wallet and daemon for win32? :)
485 2012-04-22 17:45:10 <luke-jr> Vitas: first step is install Ubuntu
486 2012-04-22 17:45:58 <Vitas> ok and now a serious answer please ;)
487 2012-04-22 17:46:12 <luke-jr> that is
488 2012-04-22 17:46:14 <devrandom> Vitas: he is serious
489 2012-04-22 17:46:17 <luke-jr> Win32 binaries are built on Ubuntu
490 2012-04-22 17:46:33 <luke-jr> I have an Ubuntu VM just for that purpose
491 2012-04-22 17:47:00 <devrandom> cross compiling using mingw32
492 2012-04-22 17:47:49 <Vitas> aha. OK so is it just a matter of installing few libraries and a few commands then?
493 2012-04-22 17:48:07 <luke-jr> Vitas: IIRC it's *possible* to build binaries on Windows, but nobody does it much (so it's not regularly tested), and they won't match the signed binaries
494 2012-04-22 17:48:34 <luke-jr> Vitas: https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder/blob/master/README.md
495 2012-04-22 17:48:57 <Vitas> thx
496 2012-04-22 17:49:34 <Vitas> what about compiling litecoin wallet and daemon. Does this apply too?
497 2012-04-22 17:49:39 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
498 2012-04-22 17:49:45 <luke-jr> I don't assist with scams, sorry.
499 2012-04-22 17:50:32 <Vitas> so that's the problem...
500 2012-04-22 17:51:24 <etotheipi_> Yeah: I never said I *want* to reimplement the networking... but there's a lot of issues to resolve: mainly interleaving complicated libraries and licensing issues. And I've got ideas for blockchain compression and/or lite nodes: no current codebase would help
501 2012-04-22 17:52:44 <etotheipi_> Yeah: for now I will probably try to integrate an existing library for "standard" client behavior... then take my time to modify it to do fancier stuff
502 2012-04-22 17:53:08 <Yeah> ok, thanks etotheipi_
503 2012-04-22 17:53:43 da2ce749 has joined
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507 2012-04-22 18:07:58 <jgarzik> sipa, gmaxwell: dc589c5 in pull #1140 addresses an ugly, though obscure, issue
508 2012-04-22 18:08:01 dub has joined
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510 2012-04-22 18:09:39 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: jgarzik opened pull request 1140 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1140>
511 2012-04-22 18:09:41 <TuxBlackEdo> i have a question, if the irc bootstap servers were down would there be absolutely no way to connect to the network (other then manually adding nodes)?
512 2012-04-22 18:09:54 <TuxBlackEdo> (for a new user)
513 2012-04-22 18:09:59 <gmaxwell> TuxBlackEdo: No. Where did you get that idea?
514 2012-04-22 18:10:16 <TuxBlackEdo> i mean for a new user
515 2012-04-22 18:10:22 <gmaxwell> We don't even use IRC anymore in current versions (it's still there but disabled by default).
516 2012-04-22 18:10:25 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: 0.6.0 doesn't even use IRC by default
517 2012-04-22 18:10:37 <TuxBlackEdo> really?
518 2012-04-22 18:10:54 <TuxBlackEdo> so bitcoin has hardcoded nodes?
519 2012-04-22 18:11:01 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: that's a last resort.
520 2012-04-22 18:11:16 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: first, it uses nodes you remember from prior sessions
521 2012-04-22 18:11:19 <luke-jr> then, it tries DNS
522 2012-04-22 18:11:22 <gmaxwell> The primary mechenism for initilization is dnsseed, failing that there is a list of 500 nodes.
523 2012-04-22 18:11:33 ovidiuso1t is now known as ovidiusoft
524 2012-04-22 18:11:36 <TuxBlackEdo> what is dnsseed?
525 2012-04-22 18:11:50 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: ugh.
526 2012-04-22 18:12:12 <gmaxwell> At least its 'just' IsStandard rules...
527 2012-04-22 18:13:07 <TuxBlackEdo> oh wow
528 2012-04-22 18:13:51 <gmaxwell> TuxBlackEdo: a simple way of getting a list of peers from a domain name. There are several independantly run ones that bitcoin queries.
529 2012-04-22 18:15:05 <TuxBlackEdo> ok so these subdomain names have like 500 A records?
530 2012-04-22 18:15:37 <TuxBlackEdo> "dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org"?
531 2012-04-22 18:15:46 <gmaxwell> TuxBlackEdo: kindaâ e.g. sipa's is a custom DNS server that spiders the bitcoin network and automatically gives a random set of reliable nodes.
532 2012-04-22 18:15:54 <luke-jr> jgarzik: I think it isn't a problem unless someone removes the IsStandard check in the first place?
533 2012-04-22 18:16:00 <TuxBlackEdo> oh very nice sipa
534 2012-04-22 18:16:01 <DiabloD3> incoming paste time
535 2012-04-22 18:16:03 <DiabloD3> [02:10:30] <a11nikek> Yo i saw that my computer connected to your bitcoin pool without me connecting to it, so i guess someone is connecting through my computer to farm
536 2012-04-22 18:16:04 <DiabloD3> [02:11:10] <DiabloD3> a11nikek: and this is why people shouldnt run windows.
537 2012-04-22 18:16:04 <DiabloD3> [02:11:27] <DiabloD3> luke-jr cant do anything for you until you file a police report
538 2012-04-22 18:16:04 <DiabloD3> [02:11:51] <a11nikek> DiabloD3: no worries, not gonna file anything i just wanted to tell you guys ill just block the connection
539 2012-04-22 18:16:04 <DiabloD3> [02:12:18] <DiabloD3> it'd be best if you did file one, actually
540 2012-04-22 18:16:06 <DiabloD3> [02:12:37] <DiabloD3> people have been trying to catch botnet owners, but the cops and the fbi wont do jack shit
541 2012-04-22 18:16:09 <DiabloD3> [02:13:10] <a11nikek> ah well not located in the us and i dont think the swedish police would care :/
542 2012-04-22 18:16:11 <DiabloD3> [02:13:30] * DiabloD3 shrugs
543 2012-04-22 18:16:13 <DiabloD3> [02:13:37] <DiabloD3> reinstall windows while you're at it, btw
544 2012-04-22 18:16:15 <DiabloD3> [02:13:43] <DiabloD3> blocking the connection wont stop the bot
545 2012-04-22 18:16:17 <DiabloD3> [02:13:46] <a11nikek> the weird thing is that the first time it started was when i downloaded gpu tweak from asus : <
546 2012-04-22 18:16:20 <DiabloD3> paste end
547 2012-04-22 18:16:26 <DiabloD3> thats from #eligius
548 2012-04-22 18:16:46 <luke-jr> someone kick him? -.-
549 2012-04-22 18:16:53 <gmaxwell> TuxBlackEdo: (I think luke is also running sipa's code, bluematt has his own implementation)
550 2012-04-22 18:16:53 <TuxBlackEdo> gpu tweak from asus?
551 2012-04-22 18:17:08 <DiabloD3> is asus distributing a bot virus to gpu mine using their own cards?
552 2012-04-22 18:17:14 <TuxBlackEdo> gmaxwell, i understand, that is way better then irc bootstrapping
553 2012-04-22 18:17:21 <gmaxwell> Would be kinda funny if some hardware maker's drivers included a bonus.
554 2012-04-22 18:17:52 <TuxBlackEdo> DiabloD3, does this guy have a link to this gpu tweak software
555 2012-04-22 18:17:55 <gmaxwell> TuxBlackEdo: well, it's light weight so it can query many placesâ vs a single centeralized IRC network... and it can always give good results, vs IRC where most hosts weren't listening.
556 2012-04-22 18:18:00 <DiabloD3> TuxBlackEdo: join #eligius and ask
557 2012-04-22 18:18:32 <luke-jr> it probably ran in CPU mining mode until something upgraded his driver with OCL
558 2012-04-22 18:18:41 <luke-jr> Asus just enabled OpenCL or smth I bet
559 2012-04-22 18:19:39 <luke-jr> DiabloD3: in the future, note this isn't #bitcoin-police, and that #Eligius is a private channel so logs require permission from participants
560 2012-04-22 18:19:59 <DiabloD3> luke-jr: oh shuddup
561 2012-04-22 18:20:08 <DiabloD3> its the implication of an asus tool doing this that piqued my interest
562 2012-04-22 18:20:16 <gmaxwell> then investigate it.
563 2012-04-22 18:20:18 <DiabloD3> no one cares about your damned pool
564 2012-04-22 18:20:23 <gmaxwell> This isn't #security-rumors either. :)
565 2012-04-22 18:20:25 <DiabloD3> gmaxwell: I dont use windows
566 2012-04-22 18:22:29 <DiabloD3> http://eligius.st/~artefact2/7/13j5XQEnXzgTi3ihJLLi3DctDZbU26KJ16
567 2012-04-22 18:22:31 <DiabloD3> thats the botnet
568 2012-04-22 18:22:32 <DiabloD3> lol
569 2012-04-22 18:23:12 <Joric> it's probably the most ridiculous use of the botnet, ever
570 2012-04-22 18:23:26 <DiabloD3> jesus, 5 ghash
571 2012-04-22 18:23:29 <DiabloD3> so delicious
572 2012-04-22 18:23:36 Zarutian has joined
573 2012-04-22 18:23:37 <DiabloD3> do want
574 2012-04-22 18:24:27 <TuxBlackEdo> btw
575 2012-04-22 18:24:31 <TuxBlackEdo> i wanna go on record
576 2012-04-22 18:24:36 <TuxBlackEdo> and this channel is logged
577 2012-04-22 18:24:54 <TuxBlackEdo> that luke-jr is allowing a botnet to mine on his pool
578 2012-04-22 18:24:55 <TuxBlackEdo> http://eligius.st/~artefact2/7/13j5XQEnXzgTi3ihJLLi3DctDZbU26KJ16
579 2012-04-22 18:25:05 <TuxBlackEdo> obvious botnet is obvious.
580 2012-04-22 18:25:09 <DiabloD3> I just mentioned it
581 2012-04-22 18:25:22 <DiabloD3> thats so botnet it hurts
582 2012-04-22 18:25:31 <DiabloD3> Im jelly
583 2012-04-22 18:25:41 davout has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
584 2012-04-22 18:26:05 PK has quit ()
585 2012-04-22 18:26:42 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: you can go on record with whatever slander you want, but that won't make it true
586 2012-04-22 18:27:13 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.)
587 2012-04-22 18:29:00 <TuxBlackEdo> luke-jr, you do know when you act like this it make you look super weak, right?
588 2012-04-22 18:30:04 dsgalsald has joined
589 2012-04-22 18:30:11 <TuxBlackEdo> "TuxBlackEdo: you can go on record with whatever slander you want, but that won't make it true" <- weak, that's not even a rebuttal
590 2012-04-22 18:30:25 Vitas has joined
591 2012-04-22 18:30:46 <gmaxwell> TuxBlackEdo: .. er why do you think that looks like a botnet?
592 2012-04-22 18:30:58 da2ce7 has joined
593 2012-04-22 18:31:04 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: it's wavey! :p
594 2012-04-22 18:31:11 sirk3901 has joined
595 2012-04-22 18:31:30 <luke-jr> too bad TuxBlackEdo has never heard of different electric pricing by time of day, eh?
596 2012-04-22 18:31:36 tower has joined
597 2012-04-22 18:31:44 <gmaxwell> sunwhateverhisnameis mined like that
598 2012-04-22 18:31:57 <TuxBlackEdo> no
599 2012-04-22 18:32:01 <gmaxwell> because his setup is all aircooled and adjusts the clocks based on temp.
600 2012-04-22 18:32:15 <DiabloD3> gmaxwell: oh thats swift
601 2012-04-22 18:32:15 <TuxBlackEdo> let's take a poll
602 2012-04-22 18:32:42 imsaguy3 has joined
603 2012-04-22 18:32:42 <TuxBlackEdo> [Tycho], is this a botnet? http://eligius.st/~artefact2/7/13j5XQEnXzgTi3ihJLLi3DctDZbU26KJ16
604 2012-04-22 18:32:42 imsaguy has quit (Disconnected by services)
605 2012-04-22 18:32:46 imsaguy3 is now known as imsaguy
606 2012-04-22 18:33:35 <luke-jr> http://eligius.st/~artefact2/7/13q2MtmDwa5SDq35dYmYcWNiJqirfYemYu looks just as suspicious imo
607 2012-04-22 18:33:37 abracadab has joined
608 2012-04-22 18:33:44 <luke-jr> and http://eligius.st/~artefact2/7/1HkJnteXo5b8aFFa9zEipYtwHASD9rYyXM
609 2012-04-22 18:33:59 <luke-jr> http://eligius.st/~artefact2/7/1QEt3y8BHkCM8vKmWv6u9rg9yrUGQt1EHf too
610 2012-04-22 18:34:09 phungio_ has joined
611 2012-04-22 18:34:10 <luke-jr> surely these can't all be botnets
612 2012-04-22 18:34:25 <TuxBlackEdo> first one isnt
613 2012-04-22 18:34:27 brocktic1 has joined
614 2012-04-22 18:34:41 <TuxBlackEdo> second one isnt
615 2012-04-22 18:34:47 cosurg1 has joined
616 2012-04-22 18:34:55 <TuxBlackEdo> third one isnt either
617 2012-04-22 18:35:14 <TuxBlackEdo> http://eligius.st/~artefact2/7/13j5XQEnXzgTi3ihJLLi3DctDZbU26KJ16 <- is a botnet
618 2012-04-22 18:35:24 <TuxBlackEdo> 100btc says that's a botnet
619 2012-04-22 18:35:56 <TuxBlackEdo> it's such an obvious botnet too
620 2012-04-22 18:36:00 abracadabra has quit (Disconnected by services)
621 2012-04-22 18:36:09 abracadab is now known as abracadabra
622 2012-04-22 18:36:17 <gmaxwell> I wouldn't take that betâ but I can't see why you're so sure of this.
623 2012-04-22 18:36:23 ahihi2_ has joined
624 2012-04-22 18:36:46 <DiabloD3> first is botnet
625 2012-04-22 18:36:54 <DiabloD3> second is botnet
626 2012-04-22 18:36:59 <DiabloD3> third is botnet!
627 2012-04-22 18:37:03 <DiabloD3> ALL BOTNET!
628 2012-04-22 18:37:06 machine1 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
629 2012-04-22 18:37:18 * gmaxwell thinks DiabloD3 may be a botnet.
630 2012-04-22 18:37:23 <TuxBlackEdo> luke-jr, also why dont you come back with how many ips are connecting to your pool using this address http://eligius.st/~artefact2/7/13j5XQEnXzgTi3ihJLLi3DctDZbU26KJ16
631 2012-04-22 18:37:27 antix_ has joined
632 2012-04-22 18:37:42 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: I'd be glad to provide all that nice info to the police.
633 2012-04-22 18:37:53 <TuxBlackEdo> i am asking for a number
634 2012-04-22 18:37:58 <TuxBlackEdo> not individual ips
635 2012-04-22 18:38:01 <TuxBlackEdo> i am asking
636 2012-04-22 18:38:07 <TuxBlackEdo> like is 1 ip using that bitcoin address
637 2012-04-22 18:38:09 <TuxBlackEdo> or 1000?
638 2012-04-22 18:38:25 <luke-jr> write me a queryâ¦
639 2012-04-22 18:38:28 d4de_ has joined
640 2012-04-22 18:38:35 <DiabloD3> gmaxwell: yes, my 600 mhash botnet :<
641 2012-04-22 18:39:21 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: 1456 ever. I don't have a way to see how many are active.
642 2012-04-22 18:39:33 <TuxBlackEdo> whoa
643 2012-04-22 18:39:42 <TuxBlackEdo> luke-jr, it's an obvious botnet, you should shut it down and keep the funds.
644 2012-04-22 18:39:48 <DiabloD3> give me the funs :<
645 2012-04-22 18:39:53 <DiabloD3> funds
646 2012-04-22 18:40:00 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: that'd be illegal
647 2012-04-22 18:40:05 <DiabloD3> so is botnetting
648 2012-04-22 18:40:15 <TuxBlackEdo> no it's illegal to pay a person running a botnet
649 2012-04-22 18:40:17 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: if you have timestamps add a where timestamp> and grab the last week.
650 2012-04-22 18:40:18 stejin has joined
651 2012-04-22 18:40:19 <luke-jr> DiabloD3: doesn't justify me
652 2012-04-22 18:40:27 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I don't have timestamps for hosts
653 2012-04-22 18:40:34 <TuxBlackEdo> luke-jr, it is illegal to pay a person running a botnet
654 2012-04-22 18:40:39 <TuxBlackEdo> which is what you are doing
655 2012-04-22 18:40:47 machine1 has joined
656 2012-04-22 18:41:09 davout has joined
657 2012-04-22 18:41:28 <gmaxwell> TuxBlackEdo: surely there are many more botnets on deebit, why aren't you nagging them? :)
658 2012-04-22 18:42:06 FACEFOX has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
659 2012-04-22 18:42:20 <gmaxwell> 5gh from only a most of 1400 IPs is pretty impressive.
660 2012-04-22 18:42:20 <TuxBlackEdo> i am sure tycho doesn't ask for a police report and he does the right thing
661 2012-04-22 18:42:28 FACEFOX-DOT-COM has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
662 2012-04-22 18:42:36 <DiabloD3> tycho runs his own botnet anyhow
663 2012-04-22 18:42:38 <luke-jr> SELECT hosts.id, 'time' FROM (SELECT hosts JOIN shares ON (rem_host_id = hosts.id) WHERE hosts.user_id = 8759 ORDER BY shares.time DESC) GROUP BY hosts.id <-- what's wrong with this?
664 2012-04-22 18:42:40 <DiabloD3> er
665 2012-04-22 18:42:40 <DiabloD3> uh
666 2012-04-22 18:42:45 <DiabloD3> forget I said anything
667 2012-04-22 18:43:10 <TuxBlackEdo> yeah i am suspecting to believe all pool operators run a botnet/used to run a botnet
668 2012-04-22 18:43:20 <TuxBlackEdo> beginning to believe*
669 2012-04-22 18:43:21 <gmaxwell> the inner query is not returning time?
670 2012-04-22 18:43:31 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I get some error
671 2012-04-22 18:43:36 <luke-jr> ERROR: syntax error at or near "JOIN"
672 2012-04-22 18:43:51 machine2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
673 2012-04-22 18:43:51 <gmaxwell> oh no from ..
674 2012-04-22 18:43:59 <gmaxwell> what table are you pulling from?
675 2012-04-22 18:44:19 dsgalsald is now known as pusle
676 2012-04-22 18:44:37 <gmaxwell> select hosts from shares join hosts on rem_host_id = hosts.id
677 2012-04-22 18:44:42 Z0rZ0rZ0r has joined
678 2012-04-22 18:44:55 <luke-jr> I want to get the last share submit by each host
679 2012-04-22 18:45:07 machine2 has joined
680 2012-04-22 18:45:42 <luke-jr> http://eligius.st/wiki/index.php/PostgreSQL_Schema
681 2012-04-22 18:47:04 rlifchitz has joined
682 2012-04-22 18:47:04 mac-mini has joined
683 2012-04-22 18:47:13 FACEFOX-DOT-COM has joined
684 2012-04-22 18:47:31 <gmaxwell> select hosts.id,max(time) from hosts join shares on (rem_host_id = hosts.id) group by hosts.id
685 2012-04-22 18:48:21 <gmaxwell> At one point I was a SQL ninja but I've apparently become a bit rusty. :)
686 2012-04-22 18:51:54 giftfrosch has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
687 2012-04-22 18:52:56 giftfrosch has joined
688 2012-04-22 18:54:26 `2Fast2BCn has joined
689 2012-04-22 18:54:33 FACEFOX has joined
690 2012-04-22 18:56:23 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
691 2012-04-22 18:58:57 b4epoche has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
692 2012-04-22 19:01:04 Wack0 has joined
693 2012-04-22 19:04:47 b4epoche has joined
694 2012-04-22 19:05:05 <sturles> If there are a lot, it would be interesting to know if they all belong to the same netblock or not. (E.g. some academical institution.)
695 2012-04-22 19:05:30 <luke-jr> gmaxwell's query is still running
696 2012-04-22 19:05:35 <luke-jr> 1000 seconds and counting
697 2012-04-22 19:05:36 <sturles> Note to self: Scroll down before answering..
698 2012-04-22 19:05:55 darkee has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
699 2012-04-22 19:06:36 darkee has joined
700 2012-04-22 19:06:55 TD has joined
701 2012-04-22 19:07:17 MrTiggr has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
702 2012-04-22 19:16:57 <tcatm> luke-jr: Why would preincrement be "the right way" when everyone is used to writing postincrements? Changing them all could easily break patches and confuse other developers and I'm pretty sure we'll end up with lots of postincrements after a while again.
703 2012-04-22 19:17:39 <luke-jr> tcatm: seasoned C++ developers are mostly used to writing preincrements, AFAICT
704 2012-04-22 19:18:04 <luke-jr> they're the right way, because they don't demand you do work that gets discarded
705 2012-04-22 19:18:16 <luke-jr> (whether at runtime or compiletime, postincrement has more work)
706 2012-04-22 19:19:16 giftfrosch has quit (Quit: giftfrosch)
707 2012-04-22 19:19:23 <dwon> in the total absense of compiler optimizations, maybe
708 2012-04-22 19:19:32 giftfrosch has joined
709 2012-04-22 19:19:38 giftfrosch has quit (Changing host)
710 2012-04-22 19:19:39 giftfrosch has joined
711 2012-04-22 19:19:45 giftfrosch has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
712 2012-04-22 19:19:52 <tcatm> Even -O0 produced the same code when compiling my simple for loop (that I constructed in a way it can't be unrolled easily).
713 2012-04-22 19:20:04 giftfrosch has joined
714 2012-04-22 19:20:47 <dwon> When I started writing C code, I used preincrements (because I knew about the INC instruction), but I switched to using postincrements because that's what every other C programmer does.
715 2012-04-22 19:21:02 <tcatm> preincrements were faster a few decades ago when compilers were basically large regex scripts translating the code.
716 2012-04-22 19:21:33 <dwon> I don't think C compilers were ever large regex scripts.
717 2012-04-22 19:21:47 <DiabloD3> eh, you'd be surprised
718 2012-04-22 19:21:56 <DiabloD3> early C compilers, 20 years ago, were just fancy macro asssemblers
719 2012-04-22 19:22:12 Snapman[afkers] is now known as Snapman
720 2012-04-22 19:22:20 <midnightmagic> the dragon book was published in 1977. are you talking earlier than that :-)
721 2012-04-22 19:22:40 <tcatm> Nowadays, intermediate languages are used where ++i and i++ will look exactly the same and then the compilers will notice that it might use a fetch-and-increment instruction to save time on specific architectures.
722 2012-04-22 19:22:41 <dwon> 20 years ago == 1992
723 2012-04-22 19:22:58 <dwon> Hell, *I* was programming before then.
724 2012-04-22 19:23:05 <DiabloD3> well, 20-30
725 2012-04-22 19:23:21 <dwon> 1982? The Amiga was released in 1985...
726 2012-04-22 19:23:28 <dwon> You're making stuff up.
727 2012-04-22 19:23:28 <DiabloD3> 40?
728 2012-04-22 19:23:49 <DiabloD3> no, Ive just been programming for so long, compilers sucking seems like yesterday
729 2012-04-22 19:24:33 <DiabloD3> wait, what am I talking about, they STILL suck
730 2012-04-22 19:24:34 <DiabloD3> dohohohohohoho
731 2012-04-22 19:24:51 * dwon mumbles something about Coffeescript
732 2012-04-22 19:25:03 <DiabloD3> you mean rubyscript
733 2012-04-22 19:25:04 <DiabloD3> lawlz
734 2012-04-22 19:25:15 <dwon> potato potato
735 2012-04-22 19:25:33 <dwon> that expression doesn't work nearly as well in writing
736 2012-04-22 19:25:53 <DiabloD3> yes, but is it bad I read that in glados's voice?
737 2012-04-22 19:26:10 <midnightmagic> i'm pretty sure almost nobody says potahto anymore.
738 2012-04-22 19:26:26 <dwon> what do brits say?
739 2012-04-22 19:26:34 <midnightmagic> they don't count
740 2012-04-22 19:26:35 <DiabloD3> chips.
741 2012-04-22 19:26:40 <dwon> fair enough
742 2012-04-22 19:26:47 <midnightmagic> :-)
743 2012-04-22 19:27:11 <dwon> anyway, bbl
744 2012-04-22 19:27:13 dwon has quit (Quit: Leaving)
745 2012-04-22 19:29:26 <gmaxwell> tcatm: the C++ pre/post increment reason is different. If you're using fancy objects with constructors that have side effects you really do get different behavior that the complier can't optimize away.
746 2012-04-22 19:29:35 <gmaxwell> So there is this whole C++ religion about pre vs post increment.
747 2012-04-22 19:29:47 <gmaxwell> My solution is mostly to not use C++. :)
748 2012-04-22 19:30:28 <gmaxwell> I'd guess that there are probably only a couple of places in all the bitcoin code where this actually matters. (go look for increments of types that are based on the secure allocator)
749 2012-04-22 19:30:47 <tcatm> gmaxwell: Yep, that's true but luke's pull request isn't modifying any such iterators (and I'm not sure we are using them anyway).
750 2012-04-22 19:31:03 <DiabloD3> gmaxwell: yeah, I was wondering why I never see preincrement in C
751 2012-04-22 19:31:18 <DiabloD3> well, rarely
752 2012-04-22 19:31:49 <tcatm> I just verified g++ will produce exactly the same code when iterating over vectors using post and preincrements.
753 2012-04-22 19:32:44 <jgarzik> tcatm: unsurprising
754 2012-04-22 19:33:07 <gmaxwell> DiabloD3: people whine when you actually use both of them in ways that depend on the behavior. (because it makes the code require more careful reading to understand)
755 2012-04-22 19:33:43 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
756 2012-04-22 19:34:00 <tcatm> jgarzik: Indeed. I was still curious whether that's actually the case :)
757 2012-04-22 19:35:21 <DiabloD3> gmaxwell: exactly, when shit is complex, thinking is bad
758 2012-04-22 19:35:24 tower has quit (Quit: | ReactOS - The FOSS alternative to MS Windows! | http://www.reactos.org/ | join #ReactOS |)
759 2012-04-22 19:35:26 <DiabloD3> it just distracts the programmer
760 2012-04-22 19:35:43 <DiabloD3> a good programmer's brain is essentially one large regex engine
761 2012-04-22 19:35:50 <DiabloD3> this should scare more people than it really does
762 2012-04-22 19:36:30 <luke-jr> tcatm: in fact, the binaries do change from it++ to ++it in that pullreq
763 2012-04-22 19:37:12 tower has joined
764 2012-04-22 19:37:59 <tcatm> luke-jr: Does the assembly change much, too?
765 2012-04-22 19:38:42 pusle has quit ()
766 2012-04-22 19:38:47 <tcatm> I've noticed the compiler decides to shuffle some jmps around when changing complex loops but it's not touching the actual increment code.
767 2012-04-22 19:39:19 <luke-jr> tcatm: it seems to, but the stupid addresses make a huge diff
768 2012-04-22 19:39:25 <devrandom> ;;later tell BlueMatt I implemented LXC support for gitian. See https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder
769 2012-04-22 19:39:25 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
770 2012-04-22 19:39:42 <luke-jr> devrandom: btw, I presume you confirmed the results match?
771 2012-04-22 19:40:25 <devrandom> I confirmed they are repeatable. Will check if they match qemu in a bit.
772 2012-04-22 19:41:02 <BlueMatt> devrandom: awesome
773 2012-04-22 19:41:10 <devrandom> oh, you are here
774 2012-04-22 19:41:29 <BlueMatt> Im always here ;)
775 2012-04-22 19:41:41 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: except when you're not even on IRC :P
776 2012-04-22 19:41:49 <BlueMatt> well, Im still "here"
777 2012-04-22 19:41:50 ThomasV has joined
778 2012-04-22 19:42:12 <devrandom> one gotcha is that there is no access to the outside world. so any git-clone has to be done outside and provided in inputs/
779 2012-04-22 19:42:34 <BlueMatt> meh, not a huge deal...
780 2012-04-22 19:42:50 <luke-jr> devrandom: tbh, that's probably better
781 2012-04-22 19:42:53 <BlueMatt> I kinda prefer that anyway, less chance of some build script being sneaky and downloading something form the internet
782 2012-04-22 19:42:53 <luke-jr> even for KVM
783 2012-04-22 19:43:08 <devrandom> (except for the gitian built-in git clone, which I changed to happen outside)
784 2012-04-22 19:43:10 <BlueMatt> though thats so unlikely anayway...
785 2012-04-22 19:43:19 <devrandom> exactly
786 2012-04-22 19:43:42 Clipse has joined
787 2012-04-22 19:43:42 Clipse has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
788 2012-04-22 19:45:01 <luke-jr> dunno, I'd like to be able to gitian-build code I don't trustâ¦
789 2012-04-22 19:45:24 <BlueMatt> well, thats true too
790 2012-04-22 19:46:56 <devrandom> nothing prevents you from doing that?
791 2012-04-22 19:48:17 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: I'm kinda surprised that no one has build an asm comparing program that will ignore things like minor register allocation differences.
792 2012-04-22 19:48:43 <devrandom> you can safely git-clone stuff outside the container and pass it in as input, so I don't see the problem with untrusted code
793 2012-04-22 19:48:54 <gmaxwell> It's annoying to step through just to validate that there is no chance of functioal change when it just swapped two registers.
794 2012-04-22 19:48:54 <devrandom> bbl
795 2012-04-22 19:51:41 <Joric> oh gawd https://github.com/farbrausch/fr_public
796 2012-04-22 19:51:52 <DiabloD3> you just noticed that Joric?
797 2012-04-22 19:52:12 <Joric> yes
798 2012-04-22 19:52:32 <DiabloD3> old news, read moar hn
799 2012-04-22 19:57:19 d4de_ is now known as d4de
800 2012-04-22 20:01:26 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@pool-96-226-232-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net|brwyatt
801 2012-04-22 20:07:11 <splatster> Deepbit has 886 transactions from the past 12 or so hours alone, why not use sendmany?
802 2012-04-22 20:08:01 <JFK911> gmaxwell: you described ida-pro's "flirt" mechanism, congratulations.
803 2012-04-22 20:08:11 <JFK911> a/k/a simpsons already did it
804 2012-04-22 20:09:00 <copumpkin> doesn't bindiff also have a feature like that?
805 2012-04-22 20:09:01 <gmaxwell> JFK911: crap in ida pro doesn't let me create a precommit hook that validates if the changes change the execution of the software or not.
806 2012-04-22 20:09:02 <copumpkin> or am I confused
807 2012-04-22 20:09:38 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: you can diff objdump output, but gcc will sometimes change register allocations in response to trivial code reordering, and that throws it off.
808 2012-04-22 20:09:40 <copumpkin> I haven't actually ever used bindiff, but I thought it did :)
809 2012-04-22 20:09:40 <JFK911> no, but you can check it out on a built binary or library component.
810 2012-04-22 20:09:53 <splatster> Is using sendmany -that- hard?
811 2012-04-22 20:09:55 <copumpkin> gmaxwell: I mean bindiff the fancy IDA plugin for copmaring binaries
812 2012-04-22 20:10:23 <copumpkin> (http://www.zynamics.com/bindiff.html)
813 2012-04-22 20:10:49 <copumpkin> it's apparently a pretty good tool
814 2012-04-22 20:10:51 <JFK911> also, you can compare p-codes
815 2012-04-22 20:10:52 <copumpkin> but not applicable here
816 2012-04-22 20:11:07 <JFK911> turn both comparison objects into p-code and compare them.
817 2012-04-22 20:11:24 <splatster> gmaxwell: Would it be reasonably easy to make a patch which prevented 1vaynert TXs from being added to the memory pool?
818 2012-04-22 20:11:41 <JFK911> but if you arent a licensed idapro user how do you use those results without admitting that you stole some stupid expensive commercial app?
819 2012-04-22 20:11:57 <copumpkin> I did buy it :P
820 2012-04-22 20:12:21 RazielZ has joined
821 2012-04-22 20:12:30 <copumpkin> back when I was a student, I got a hefty academic discount, and I used it a lot more back then
822 2012-04-22 20:12:43 <JFK911> oh so your version is free now
823 2012-04-22 20:12:49 <copumpkin> yeah
824 2012-04-22 20:12:59 <copumpkin> well, the last one I could get was 5.4
825 2012-04-22 20:13:02 <JFK911> ilfak is not friendly to individuals seeking to purchase his product
826 2012-04-22 20:13:04 <copumpkin> I assume that's all free now
827 2012-04-22 20:13:11 <copumpkin> I know, but I can understand his point of view, too
828 2012-04-22 20:13:36 <luke-jr> devrandom: I don't want untrusted code to have network access
829 2012-04-22 20:13:55 <copumpkin> I'm not a fan of the sense of entitlement buyers seem to feel due to this ingrained "customer is king" attitude everyone has
830 2012-04-22 20:14:03 <splatster> luke-jr: Would it be reasonably easy to make a patch which prevented 1vaynert TXs from being added to the memory pool?
831 2012-04-22 20:14:03 <copumpkin> a seller has every right not to sell to you :P
832 2012-04-22 20:14:15 <luke-jr> splatster: yes
833 2012-04-22 20:14:30 <JFK911> well, i believe it should be impossible to steal what's impossible to buy
834 2012-04-22 20:14:55 <copumpkin> it's not impossible to buy though
835 2012-04-22 20:15:03 <splatster> luke-jr: Do you think people would accept such a patch boycotting their TXs until they start using sendmany?
836 2012-04-22 20:15:06 <copumpkin> several of my fellow hackers have legitimate copies :)
837 2012-04-22 20:15:17 <luke-jr> splatster: maybe.
838 2012-04-22 20:15:19 <splatster> (I know they'd just put their TXs in their own blocks)
839 2012-04-22 20:15:20 <copumpkin> you just need to try to avoid looking "nefarious"
840 2012-04-22 20:15:27 <copumpkin> where that's admittedly a loosely defined term
841 2012-04-22 20:16:07 <copumpkin> it's a hard market to sell to though, if you want to avoid cracks, since the target audience is exactly the set of people who is best able to crack your programs
842 2012-04-22 20:16:29 <JFK911> lots of corps and governments buy it for security research
843 2012-04-22 20:16:30 <copumpkin> his watermarking scheme is fancy, but if two copies leak it'll be pretty bad
844 2012-04-22 20:16:34 <copumpkin> yeah, I know
845 2012-04-22 20:16:48 <devrandom> luke-jr: right, the lxc container is configured not to have access
846 2012-04-22 20:17:02 <luke-jr> devrandom: I'm saying it'd be nice if KVM was the same
847 2012-04-22 20:17:05 <devrandom> which is why git-clone has to be run on the host
848 2012-04-22 20:17:27 <devrandom> oh, good point, I think it's just a flag to kvm
849 2012-04-22 20:18:49 machine2 has quit (Quit: : http://www.beta.facefox.com/index.php?do=/user/register/)
850 2012-04-22 20:24:54 <devrandom> luke-jr: BlueMatt: build matches lxc <-> kvm
851 2012-04-22 20:25:14 <BlueMatt> nice!
852 2012-04-22 20:26:07 <sipa> devrandom: will git cloning now happen on host os?
853 2012-04-22 20:30:19 <devrandom> sipa: yes
854 2012-04-22 20:31:21 <sipa> nice... but does it need a separate clone, instead of say, just a git tag and a local repository?
855 2012-04-22 20:32:24 <devrandom> if the directory exists, it does a git fetch instead
856 2012-04-22 20:32:39 <devrandom> the container will do a git checkout <hash>
857 2012-04-22 20:33:16 <luke-jr> devrandom: what sipa means, I think, is that it would be nice to point gitian at a local repository, and not have to publish one online ;)
858 2012-04-22 20:33:35 <devrandom> a git url can just be a local dir
859 2012-04-22 20:33:45 <devrandom> well, now it can be, since the clone is on the host
860 2012-04-22 20:34:20 <sipa> oh, of course
861 2012-04-22 20:34:34 <sipa> i always forget git is decentral
862 2012-04-22 20:34:37 sirk3901 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
863 2012-04-22 20:34:58 <sipa> well, not forget, but i rarely use it that way
864 2012-04-22 20:37:46 <devrandom> cool... two improvements with one change (prevent untrusted code from dialing out, support local filesystem repos)
865 2012-04-22 20:37:51 <jgarzik> wait until the git repo is 500MB... then you'll remember :)
866 2012-04-22 20:38:18 <jgarzik> [jgarzik@bd linux]$ du -ks .git
867 2012-04-22 20:38:18 <jgarzik> 541052 .git
868 2012-04-22 20:38:38 <devrandom> git-gc? :)
869 2012-04-22 20:39:10 <luke-jr> my local linux git is 837 MB
870 2012-04-22 20:39:16 sirk390 has joined
871 2012-04-22 20:39:33 <BlueMatt> how do you have a bigger linux git than a kernel dev???
872 2012-04-22 20:39:51 <BlueMatt> s/dev/maint/
873 2012-04-22 20:40:09 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I presume he does git gc often :P
874 2012-04-22 20:40:16 <luke-jr> also, I dabble more than you might think
875 2012-04-22 20:40:40 <luke-jr> for a while, I was working on porting Linux to Nokia N810
876 2012-04-22 20:40:48 <luke-jr> I also have a git repo that is 16 GB FWIW :p
877 2012-04-22 20:41:00 <jgarzik> devrandom: that is with a regular 'git gc --aggressive'
878 2012-04-22 20:41:17 <jgarzik> most pulls pull down compressed packs (not individual objects) anyway
879 2012-04-22 20:41:54 <devrandom> ok
880 2012-04-22 20:42:48 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I'm killing your SQL query, it's taken stats down :<
881 2012-04-22 20:43:22 <luke-jr> (and merged mining too)
882 2012-04-22 20:45:44 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: still...coding != dealing with pulls on a regular basis
883 2012-04-22 20:46:31 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I have many branches in my repo :P
884 2012-04-22 20:46:42 <BlueMatt> meh...whatever
885 2012-04-22 20:46:57 <luke-jr> including 2.6.28.y, omap, etc
886 2012-04-22 20:47:05 blomqvis- has joined
887 2012-04-22 20:47:21 blomqvis- has quit (Client Quit)
888 2012-04-22 20:47:41 <jgarzik> specifically: git gc --aggressive --prune=now
889 2012-04-22 20:48:04 Diapolo has joined
890 2012-04-22 20:48:17 <luke-jr> jgarzik: do you put all your Linux branches in one repo, or make a separate one for each?
891 2012-04-22 20:48:40 blomqvist has quit (Disconnected by services)
892 2012-04-22 20:48:46 <Diapolo> good evening
893 2012-04-22 20:48:50 <Diapolo> is Matt online?
894 2012-04-22 20:48:55 <luke-jr> yes
895 2012-04-22 20:49:03 <BlueMatt> here
896 2012-04-22 20:49:32 <Diapolo> hi there, you said I could talk to you if I need an Windows build via Jenkins, right?
897 2012-04-22 20:49:38 <BlueMatt> sure
898 2012-04-22 20:49:48 <Diapolo> What do you need?
899 2012-04-22 20:49:55 <BlueMatt> just a repo path
900 2012-04-22 20:50:02 <BlueMatt> ie github repo + branch
901 2012-04-22 20:50:51 <Diapolo> https://github.com/Diapolo/bitcoin/tree/InitBlockDL-exp that's the URI
902 2012-04-22 20:51:09 ByronJoh1son has joined
903 2012-04-22 20:51:11 doublec_ has joined
904 2012-04-22 20:51:11 <BlueMatt> ok give me a sec...
905 2012-04-22 20:51:42 wereHams1er has joined
906 2012-04-22 20:52:09 <sipa> Diapolo: youcan't build it yourself?
907 2012-04-22 20:52:16 <Diapolo> BlueMatt: sure
908 2012-04-22 20:52:58 _Fireball has quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Organize your IRC)
909 2012-04-22 20:53:01 <Diapolo> I can't redistribute because I can't build a statically linked version.
910 2012-04-22 20:53:06 blomqvist has joined
911 2012-04-22 20:53:10 <sipa> ah
912 2012-04-22 20:53:26 <Diapolo> And I need a version for a Win user to test ;).
913 2012-04-22 20:53:38 <sipa> a gitian build is easier than jenkins, i guess
914 2012-04-22 20:53:39 <BlueMatt> Diapolo: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin-Testing-Build/24/console
915 2012-04-22 20:53:58 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: thats a lot of code for preallocation. :(
916 2012-04-22 20:54:03 <Diapolo> sipa: I only have a local installation of the Qt SDK currently.
917 2012-04-22 20:54:27 <Diapolo> gmaxwell: This is clearly marked as experimental, right?
918 2012-04-22 20:54:59 <jgarzik> luke-jr: many branches, one repo
919 2012-04-22 20:55:12 <Diapolo> ouch that was a quick failure ... will look at it matt, thanks
920 2012-04-22 20:55:19 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: sure sure... I was just making sad noises that it took so much to do it. Not complaining at the work you've done.
921 2012-04-22 20:55:51 ericrecord2 has joined
922 2012-04-22 20:56:00 Tycale has joined
923 2012-04-22 20:56:16 <luke-jr> jgarzik: do you encounter corrupt objects often? I get them every few months in my 12 GB repo :/
924 2012-04-22 20:57:30 DamascusVG has joined
925 2012-04-22 20:57:39 <Diapolo> BlueMatt: The errors are all because of the famous make_preferred() right?
926 2012-04-22 20:57:42 <sipa> your preallocate method doesn't seem to write anything?
927 2012-04-22 20:58:00 npouillard has joined
928 2012-04-22 20:58:00 DamascusVG has joined
929 2012-04-22 20:58:18 <BlueMatt> Diapolo: I didnt look...
930 2012-04-22 20:58:41 abracadabra has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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932 2012-04-22 20:59:08 FACEFOX-DOT-COM has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
933 2012-04-22 20:59:17 <Diapolo> It so damn hard as a compiler newb to get things straight that are working locally ... but not on other machines.
934 2012-04-22 21:00:03 machine1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
935 2012-04-22 21:00:14 FACEFOX has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
936 2012-04-22 21:00:20 <Diapolo> sipa: What you mean?
937 2012-04-22 21:02:19 npouillard has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
938 2012-04-22 21:02:38 <sipa> Diapolo: you just seem to call windows's equivalent of seek() to a certain position
939 2012-04-22 21:02:56 <sipa> does that actually write 2 GiB to disk?
940 2012-04-22 21:03:07 delt0r__ has joined
941 2012-04-22 21:03:07 ronaz has joined
942 2012-04-22 21:03:18 ericrecord2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
943 2012-04-22 21:03:35 npouillard has joined
944 2012-04-22 21:03:40 FACEFOX-DOT-COM has joined
945 2012-04-22 21:03:54 <Diapolo> sipa: yes that's how it works on Windows
946 2012-04-22 21:04:16 <jgarzik> luke-jr: never
947 2012-04-22 21:04:55 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: thats just going to result in a hole in linux, not preallocation.
948 2012-04-22 21:05:04 gp5st has joined
949 2012-04-22 21:05:35 <Diapolo> I know one would say this and I say experimental and Win only ... on Linux it can be done with another OS specific call, I read that.
950 2012-04-22 21:05:38 <sipa> Diapolo: i wonder why you need that much code
951 2012-04-22 21:05:52 MrTiggr has joined
952 2012-04-22 21:05:52 <luke-jr> wtf, 10 serial ports? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153216
953 2012-04-22 21:06:12 abracadab has joined
954 2012-04-22 21:06:17 <Diapolo> I did not want to change existing code to keep it seperated for the tests.
955 2012-04-22 21:06:33 <sipa> Diapolo: i'd say keep the used size of block files in blkindex.dat, and when writing, seek to that position before writing instead of at the end
956 2012-04-22 21:06:39 abracadab is now known as abracadabra
957 2012-04-22 21:06:42 machine1 has joined
958 2012-04-22 21:06:56 Maged has quit (Disconnected by services)
959 2012-04-22 21:07:05 Maged_ has joined
960 2012-04-22 21:07:12 <gmaxwell> sipa: that would also avoid wasting space in some uncelan shutdown cases.
961 2012-04-22 21:07:14 Maged_ is now known as Maged
962 2012-04-22 21:07:23 <gmaxwell> unclean too.
963 2012-04-22 21:07:56 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: if that were an atom board I'd say "cheap console server"
964 2012-04-22 21:08:25 <Diapolo> As you see it uses std::fstream instead of FILE so I coppied the whole CAutoFile class, that's most of the "new" code.
965 2012-04-22 21:09:04 wereHams1er is now known as wereHamster
966 2012-04-22 21:09:10 FACEFOX has joined
967 2012-04-22 21:09:14 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: ironically, it's the only ATX Q67 board NewEgg sells
968 2012-04-22 21:09:15 <sipa> i don't mind moving to std::fstream for CAutoFile, but this way it's hard to see what is actually chqnged
969 2012-04-22 21:09:17 wereHamster is now known as wereHamste
970 2012-04-22 21:09:19 wereHamste is now known as wereHamster
971 2012-04-22 21:09:21 <sipa> changed
972 2012-04-22 21:09:32 <Diapolo> sipa: I currently store the file pos in blk0001.dat.fptrpos as I did not know how to do it otherwise, because with a pre-alloc file you can't write simply to the end of it as that creates wasted space inbeween,
973 2012-04-22 21:09:34 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: (Q67 has a built-in VNC server)
974 2012-04-22 21:09:36 noagendamarket has joined
975 2012-04-22 21:10:22 giftfrosch has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
976 2012-04-22 21:10:38 MrTiggr has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
977 2012-04-22 21:11:05 <Diapolo> sipa: It's an early stage and I did not intend to really consume dev time, I only wanted the user who reported the disk fragmentation problem to test this and would cleanup if it's worth it.
978 2012-04-22 21:11:30 <sipa> Diapolo: yes; i'd suggest putting it in the database, that way it is kept consistent with the rest of the block chain data
979 2012-04-22 21:11:48 <sipa> Diapolo: ok, i', just doing a suggestion for how it might be easier
980 2012-04-22 21:12:02 <Joric> ThomasV, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50936.msg863854 it's a small world
981 2012-04-22 21:12:23 <ThomasV> Joric: I was just typing an answer
982 2012-04-22 21:12:25 <sipa> Joric: so you did write brainwallet?
983 2012-04-22 21:12:29 <Diapolo> sipa: That's a great idea but I'm sure I can't do this by myself as I have no clue about DB coding.
984 2012-04-22 21:13:11 <sipa> Diapolo: you can always ask for advice/help
985 2012-04-22 21:13:29 <Joric> sipa, yeah, and i'm mostly terrified of how lousy it's written
986 2012-04-22 21:13:51 <sipa> i knew it :)
987 2012-04-22 21:14:50 welterde has joined
988 2012-04-22 21:14:59 <Diapolo> sipa: So you can for sure help me with that DB stuff. I need to store and load the file-pointer position of the block-chain file to remove that blk0001.dat.fptrpos file I currently use. How would you start doing this?
989 2012-04-22 21:15:30 giftfrosch has joined
990 2012-04-22 21:15:48 <sipa> Diapolo: add an entry with key blkfilepos + blockfile num, and value its used size
991 2012-04-22 21:15:59 <BlueMatt> Diapolo: ping me if you want more builds
992 2012-04-22 21:16:24 <Diapolo> BlueMatt: ping :) I removed the make_preferred() calls and hope it builds now
993 2012-04-22 21:16:42 <BlueMatt> watch: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin-Testing-Build/25/console
994 2012-04-22 21:16:43 <sipa> Diapolo: and when writing a new block, read that value from db, seek to that position, write, and increment the position
995 2012-04-22 21:16:58 sgstair has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
996 2012-04-22 21:17:08 <sipa> Diapolo: that's around 15 lines of code, i'd say
997 2012-04-22 21:17:32 sgstair has joined
998 2012-04-22 21:18:02 <Diapolo> sipa: currently the file pointer resides in memory as the blockchain is downloaded so perhaps it would suffice to only read the value on startup and store it on shutdown to keep things fast?
999 2012-04-22 21:18:20 <sipa> Diapolo: no, store it after every block change
1000 2012-04-22 21:18:25 <sipa> you can keep it in memory though
1001 2012-04-22 21:18:35 <sipa> but you want a consistent value in the database
1002 2012-04-22 21:18:46 <sipa> so that a crash doesn't mean the old blocks will get overwritten
1003 2012-04-22 21:19:04 <Diapolo> makes sense
1004 2012-04-22 21:19:18 <sipa> it will get caches by the databse anyway, and only written once if it's updated multiple times
1005 2012-04-22 21:19:22 <sipa> cached
1006 2012-04-22 21:19:54 <sipa> (though normally, there is a db commit after connectblock, which would write it, but that's a good thing, and very cheap anyway)
1007 2012-04-22 21:21:06 <Diapolo> sipa: Is there a good place to start with DB stuff? Currently it's over my brain really ... it starts with in which file to store the value, how to create a key, how to read or write to the DB ... that are myths and adventures ;).
1008 2012-04-22 21:21:26 <sipa> Diapolo: look at db.h and db.cpp
1009 2012-04-22 21:22:03 <sipa> in particular, you'll want to mimic some Write/Read/Erasesomething function from CTxDB
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1012 2012-04-22 21:22:32 <sipa> CTxDB is the "file handle" to the blkindex.dat database
1013 2012-04-22 21:23:32 <Diapolo> sipa: and this file is the place to store "such things" then
1014 2012-04-22 21:23:35 machine1 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1015 2012-04-22 21:23:48 <sipa> Diapolo: yes, it's the only place that makes sense, imho
1016 2012-04-22 21:23:54 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1017 2012-04-22 21:24:22 <sipa> Diapolo: it's where the tx and block indexes are kept
1018 2012-04-22 21:25:47 <Diapolo> sipa: there are 3 databases right? wallet, blockchain and the index one?
1019 2012-04-22 21:27:49 <sipa> wallet.dat, blkindex.dat, addr.dat
1020 2012-04-22 21:28:11 <sipa> wallet, blockchain, and peer ip addresses, respectively
1021 2012-04-22 21:28:30 <Diapolo> the addr.dat right, forgot that one ...
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1024 2012-04-22 21:30:17 <Diapolo> So my homework will be to look at the db.h / .cpp ... I guess I should remove the load / store code for the fileptr pos from the CAutoFile class and start playing around with the DB functions.
1025 2012-04-22 21:30:43 <Diapolo> BlueMatt: ping once more
1026 2012-04-22 21:30:51 machine1 has joined
1027 2012-04-22 21:31:00 <BlueMatt> http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin-Testing-Build/26/console
1028 2012-04-22 21:31:05 <sipa> Diapolo: i'd also try to just use/modify CAutoFile
1029 2012-04-22 21:32:00 <Diapolo> sipa: that would be better of course ... I chose that way, because there are the Read / Erase functions for blocks, too and I didn't want to touch them in the first place
1030 2012-04-22 21:33:20 <sipa> i don't think you need to touch much
1031 2012-04-22 21:33:38 <sipa> just adding some seek and preallocate methods?
1032 2012-04-22 21:34:09 <Diapolo> and the change to fstream as fseek doesn't work in the middle of files
1033 2012-04-22 21:34:32 <Diapolo> to write data
1034 2012-04-22 21:34:44 <sipa> it should
1035 2012-04-22 21:36:03 <Diapolo> no chance I only could write at the end of the file, if I preallocated it's space with fseek
1036 2012-04-22 21:36:38 <sipa> fseek doesn't allocate
1037 2012-04-22 21:36:42 <Diapolo> no chance, with fseek I only could write at the end of the file, if I preallocated it's space
1038 2012-04-22 21:37:04 <Diapolo> words mixed ^^
1039 2012-04-22 21:37:42 <sipa> your preallocate method will work differently (typiclly just writing zeroes), but fseek should work fine to move to a particular point in the file
1040 2012-04-22 21:38:11 <sipa> you could have a windows-specific preallocate though
1041 2012-04-22 21:39:15 <Diapolo> it writes nothing, so it takes NO time to preallocate on Windows
1042 2012-04-22 21:40:36 <sipa> so neither is there a guarantee the space is allocated at that time
1043 2012-04-22 21:40:58 <sipa> but i know too little about windows internals to be sure
1044 2012-04-22 21:41:21 <Diapolo> indeed it gets allocated in 2 fragments as a whole 2GB file
1045 2012-04-22 21:41:25 danbri has joined
1046 2012-04-22 21:41:52 <sipa> but still: let preallocate work however you like, ut there's no reason why fseek would not work for seeking
1047 2012-04-22 21:41:57 <Diapolo> the space is just not filled with zeroes it contains garbage as long as you don't overwrite it
1048 2012-04-22 21:42:10 <sipa> sure, that's possible
1049 2012-04-22 21:42:22 <Diapolo> yeah that fseek thing I'm sure I read it on a webpage ...
1050 2012-04-22 21:42:24 <sipa> i don't care really how you preallocate
1051 2012-04-22 21:42:34 <Diapolo> will try to find it and show it
1052 2012-04-22 21:44:52 denisx has joined
1053 2012-04-22 21:45:10 <Diapolo> hm perhaps I chose fstream because it's not limited to 2GB files or sth. like that ... can find it currently
1054 2012-04-22 21:45:25 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1055 2012-04-22 21:46:15 <Diapolo> sipa: I'll work on my little project during the next days and I'll for sure come back to get some of your knowledge :). It's late I'm off for now. Thanks!!!
1056 2012-04-22 21:46:31 <sipa> as i said, i don't mind switching to fstream for CAutoFile, it will be more compatible for sure
1057 2012-04-22 21:46:57 <Diapolo> BlueMatt: I'll have to look into the errors again and will talk to you to start another try ^^.
1058 2012-04-22 21:47:12 <BlueMatt> alright
1059 2012-04-22 21:47:15 <sipa> but if it's really necessary, try to do so separately (just to keep changes compact)
1060 2012-04-22 21:48:45 <Diapolo> good night then and thanks again :)
1061 2012-04-22 21:49:20 Diapolo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1062 2012-04-22 21:53:03 stejin has left ()
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1069 2012-04-22 22:08:05 Maged_ has joined
1070 2012-04-22 22:08:13 Maged_ is now known as Maged
1071 2012-04-22 22:09:02 <[Tycho]> TuxBlackEdo: may be. They often show similar patterns. Also check the number of IPs mining for this account.
1072 2012-04-22 22:12:58 <TuxBlackEdo> that wavy line can't be a miner, right?
1073 2012-04-22 22:13:02 <TuxBlackEdo> botner for sure
1074 2012-04-22 22:13:05 <TuxBlackEdo> botnet*
1075 2012-04-22 22:13:36 <TuxBlackEdo> apparently 1400 unique IPs generating 5ghash
1076 2012-04-22 22:14:06 Z0rZ0rZ0r1 has joined
1077 2012-04-22 22:14:06 Z0rZ0rZ0r has quit (Disconnected by services)
1078 2012-04-22 22:14:09 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1079 2012-04-22 22:14:17 <DiabloD3> [Tycho]: luke is harboring a fucking botnet
1080 2012-04-22 22:14:20 <DiabloD3> and he wont do shit
1081 2012-04-22 22:14:42 <TuxBlackEdo> [Tycho], when someone comes to you and finds a botnet do you ask for a police report? or do you do the correct thing and try to block the account (and obviously keep ALL funds)
1082 2012-04-22 22:15:17 <TuxBlackEdo> DiabloD3, actually it's worse, luke-jr is knowingly paying a botnet operator
1083 2012-04-22 22:15:38 <[Tycho]> Actually I'm detecting botnets automatically by parsing my stats.
1084 2012-04-22 22:17:33 <[Tycho]> It adds a special message in the memberzone asking them to explain this situation by e-mail in next N hours, and then pool core won't give any more work to this account.
1085 2012-04-22 22:17:55 <TuxBlackEdo> how much is N usually?
1086 2012-04-22 22:18:14 <[Tycho]> And no, I'm not keeping their funds because I don't have rights to do this.
1087 2012-04-22 22:18:56 <TuxBlackEdo> if you ever sent traffic to an affiliate account they can and will keep your funds if you used spam to promote
1088 2012-04-22 22:19:06 <[Tycho]> TuxBlackEdo: it depends.
1089 2012-04-22 22:20:50 <[Tycho]> I can keep funds if they were stolen from me or other users, but botnets steal funds from 3rd party which I can't refund anyway. It's out of my jurisdiction.
1090 2012-04-22 22:21:29 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1091 2012-04-22 22:22:07 <[Tycho]> TuxBlackEdo: even if someone uses different power cost depending on time of day, it won't be a smooth curve, it will look like steps.
1092 2012-04-22 22:23:44 JRWR has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1093 2012-04-22 22:24:08 <gmaxwell> sunbreak (?)'s dynamic clock control did really produce graphs a lot like that.
1094 2012-04-22 22:24:10 <DiabloD3> [Tycho]: if its temp related
1095 2012-04-22 22:24:13 <DiabloD3> it'll be a smooth curve
1096 2012-04-22 22:24:24 <[Tycho]> DiabloD3: well, that's not really a smart move - he may experience problems if they suspect him as a botnet C&C
1097 2012-04-22 22:24:35 <DiabloD3> well no
1098 2012-04-22 22:24:39 <DiabloD3> it'll be a single IP though
1099 2012-04-22 22:24:48 <DiabloD3> what gives away the botnet is the IPs
1100 2012-04-22 22:25:13 abracadabra is now known as abracabra
1101 2012-04-22 22:25:17 abracabra is now known as abracadabra
1102 2012-04-22 22:25:19 <gmaxwell> yea, I think it's silly to look at apparent hash rates.
1103 2012-04-22 22:25:34 <[Tycho]> I think I posted here some sample curve from real botnet.
1104 2012-04-22 22:26:00 <gmaxwell> also, if you're identifying them that way.. they could just obsecure it by hopping pools at random.
1105 2012-04-22 22:26:16 <DiabloD3> or hopping addresses at random
1106 2012-04-22 22:26:34 <DiabloD3> eligius makes that easy
1107 2012-04-22 22:27:29 <[Tycho]> I'm not using hashrate dynamics for detection at all.
1108 2012-04-22 22:28:13 davout has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1109 2012-04-22 22:32:31 <denisx> getworks should cost something
1110 2012-04-22 22:32:59 <luke-jr> denisx: there's an idea
1111 2012-04-22 22:33:01 <gmaxwell> they doâ 3% of your income at deepbit. ;)
1112 2012-04-22 22:33:15 <gmaxwell> How about distinct IPs should cost something. :)
1113 2012-04-22 22:33:17 <dwon> TuxBlackEdo: How is "keep ALL funds" the correct thing to do without a court order? There's this thing called due process of law...
1114 2012-04-22 22:33:23 <denisx> I mean every single getwork
1115 2012-04-22 22:33:26 <luke-jr> when/if Eligius grows so big that I need to deter growth, I'll see about charging per getwork rather than a % ;)
1116 2012-04-22 22:34:04 <[Tycho]> Well, now pool software is way too optimized to care about getworks :)
1117 2012-04-22 22:34:15 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: it's still more fair than % fees
1118 2012-04-22 22:34:36 <gmaxwell> also harder to reason about, which makes users spaz out.
1119 2012-04-22 22:34:46 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: O.o?
1120 2012-04-22 22:34:47 <[Tycho]> Initially, in the pushpoold era, work generation was difficult
1121 2012-04-22 22:35:05 <gmaxwell> "omg the fees could possibly be as high as 20%" "unless your software is broken they'll just be 3%" "but it could be!"
1122 2012-04-22 22:35:14 noagendamarket has joined
1123 2012-04-22 22:35:14 <dwon> TuxBlackEdo: Heck, if you keep all the funds, and it really is a botnet, then you've just profited from a botnet. Good job.
1124 2012-04-22 22:35:32 <gmaxwell> dwon: he was saying that he didn't keep the funds.
1125 2012-04-22 22:35:34 <[Tycho]> gmaxwell: pool may exploit this by giving more LPs than needed.
1126 2012-04-22 22:35:58 <dwon> gmaxwell: <TuxBlackEdo> [Tycho], when someone comes to you and finds a botnet do you ask for a police report? or do you do the correct thing and try to block the account (and obviously keep ALL funds)
1127 2012-04-22 22:36:01 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: and people like TuxBlackEdo will try to claim the pool is not only "knowingly paying", but also profiting from the botnet⦠:/
1128 2012-04-22 22:36:17 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: indeed. but if the pool operator wants to cheat it can just fail to count shares, call shares stale, or add phantom shares (for porportional pools)
1129 2012-04-22 22:36:22 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: TuxBlackEdo is ranting that I should keep the botnet funds
1130 2012-04-22 22:36:47 <gmaxwell> I dunno why tux is on a warpath about this. Botnets suck but there isn't a lot that can be done about them.
1131 2012-04-22 22:36:51 <[Tycho]> Shares count is easy to check.
1132 2012-04-22 22:37:04 <gmaxwell> If you were to block based on many IPs, the botnet controller would just use one address per botnet node.
1133 2012-04-22 22:37:23 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: he probably wants me to piss off the botnet operators and get DDoS'd again
1134 2012-04-22 22:37:30 <[Tycho]> gmaxwell: at least you will be less responsible then.
1135 2012-04-22 22:37:53 Slix` has joined
1136 2012-04-22 22:38:01 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: padding with false shares to make the pool 'unlucky' is not really cheackable though...
1137 2012-04-22 22:38:20 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: it is with GMP ;P
1138 2012-04-22 22:38:28 <[Tycho]> Sometimes people try checking pools for luck :)
1139 2012-04-22 22:38:29 <copumpkin> gnu multiprecision!
1140 2012-04-22 22:38:30 <[Tycho]> Ok.
1141 2012-04-22 22:39:05 <sipa> copumpkin: close, but few cigars
1142 2012-04-22 22:39:29 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: sure, they doâ but luck is sometimes bad by chance.. e.g. a bit before BTCguild went PPS they had a one month span that run that was some insanely low probability like 1:10000 or something like that.
1143 2012-04-22 22:40:22 <[Tycho]> May be they were broken a bit.
1144 2012-04-22 22:40:31 <[Tycho]> Loosing blocks, for example.
1145 2012-04-22 22:40:51 <gmaxwell> Or cheating! Indistinguishable. Maybe but no one acted on it, which is the pointâ even if you can 'detect' the detection is so weak that you really can't say or do anything about it.
1146 2012-04-22 22:41:11 <copumpkin> Mad7Scientist was convinced they were cheating and went on about it for a while. Hard to say if he was right :)
1147 2012-04-22 22:41:22 <[Tycho]> No one ever acted when the truth about "bitcoinpool" was revealed.
1148 2012-04-22 22:41:43 <[Tycho]> It was surprising to me, but now I know: people don't care about anything.
1149 2012-04-22 22:41:45 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: IIRC, "bitcoinpool" stole someone's Bitcoins and made a raffle for their users with it
1150 2012-04-22 22:41:49 <[Tycho]> (at least most of them)
1151 2012-04-22 22:42:19 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: !!!
1152 2012-04-22 22:42:32 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: it was a while back
1153 2012-04-22 22:42:38 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1154 2012-04-22 22:42:50 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: well, I guess it should be unsurprising.. it was obviously run by crazy people.
1155 2012-04-22 22:43:08 <[Tycho]> Some pools even still post block height instead of hash at their stats.
1156 2012-04-22 22:43:18 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit accused BenDavis of bitcoinpool of stealing somehow, and shortly thereafter, they were giving away GPUs
1157 2012-04-22 22:43:36 <luke-jr> Sep 2011
1158 2012-04-22 22:43:38 <copumpkin> luke-jr: that was pretty well documented stealing
1159 2012-04-22 22:43:50 <copumpkin> the guy admitted to it, but insisted on not calling it stealing
1160 2012-04-22 22:43:54 <luke-jr> lol
1161 2012-04-22 22:43:57 <[Tycho]> Also that story about mining "efficiency" :)
1162 2012-04-22 22:44:28 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: well, that was actually useful innovation
1163 2012-04-22 22:44:31 <copumpkin> luke-jr: he accidentally transferred too much to his address (500 coins when we were at $10, iirc), and the guy instantly cashed out and posted about free money on his facebook
1164 2012-04-22 22:44:44 <[Tycho]> copumpkin: yeah, some people even don't call poolhopping as stealing.
1165 2012-04-22 22:44:47 <copumpkin> luke-jr: he then went around bragging about it all over the place
1166 2012-04-22 22:45:00 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: it's not.
1167 2012-04-22 22:45:12 <phantomcircuit> unfortunately the wheel of justice moves slowly
1168 2012-04-22 22:45:30 <[Tycho]> copumpkin: transfered where and for what ?
1169 2012-04-22 22:45:58 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: never got anything back?
1170 2012-04-22 22:46:01 <TuxBlackEdo> i just got back
1171 2012-04-22 22:46:07 <copumpkin> phantomcircuit: wheel of justice? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Klassisches_Radern.png
1172 2012-04-22 22:46:11 <TuxBlackEdo> yes keep all the funds of a botnet operator
1173 2012-04-22 22:46:19 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, i have no doubt we will eventually be compensated completely
1174 2012-04-22 22:46:29 <phantomcircuit> and i believe it is very likely he will end up behind bars
1175 2012-04-22 22:46:34 <TuxBlackEdo> just like how affiliate accounts shut down spammer's affiliate accounts without pay
1176 2012-04-22 22:46:37 <phantomcircuit> but it's going to take a long time
1177 2012-04-22 22:46:44 <copumpkin> he bragged about already having been behind bars and not caring
1178 2012-04-22 22:46:52 <phantomcircuit> copumpkin, he was lying
1179 2012-04-22 22:46:53 <copumpkin> [Tycho]: I dunno the details, but phantomcircuit certainly does :)
1180 2012-04-22 22:46:55 <copumpkin> oh
1181 2012-04-22 22:46:57 <phantomcircuit> he has several firearms
1182 2012-04-22 22:47:08 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: except affiliate nonsense usually has a contract you sign
1183 2012-04-22 22:47:13 <TuxBlackEdo> no
1184 2012-04-22 22:47:15 <TuxBlackEdo> it doesn;t
1185 2012-04-22 22:47:15 <luke-jr> I'm not forcing Eligius users to clickthru
1186 2012-04-22 22:47:22 <phantomcircuit> unless it was juvenile detention and his records was expunged
1187 2012-04-22 22:47:39 <copumpkin> either way, his attitude pissed me off a lot :P
1188 2012-04-22 22:47:42 <TuxBlackEdo> luke-jr, that means you are ok with botnet operators to mine on eligius?
1189 2012-04-22 22:47:58 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: http://eligius.st/wiki/index.php/FAQ#Are_botnets_allowed_on_Eligius.3F
1190 2012-04-22 22:48:25 <phantomcircuit> copumpkin, yes if he hadn't been such a complete and total asshole i might have just counted it as a loss and moved on
1191 2012-04-22 22:48:37 <copumpkin> yeah
1192 2012-04-22 22:49:08 <TuxBlackEdo> http://eligius.st/~artefact2/7/13j5XQEnXzgTi3ihJLLi3DctDZbU26KJ16
1193 2012-04-22 22:49:20 <TuxBlackEdo> can other people look at this
1194 2012-04-22 22:50:08 * copumpkin looks :)
1195 2012-04-22 22:50:49 <[Tycho]> Looks like some stats from luke-jr's pool
1196 2012-04-22 22:51:12 <copumpkin> periodic. I assume you assume it means a botnet>
1197 2012-04-22 22:51:30 <copumpkin> ?
1198 2012-04-22 22:51:35 <TuxBlackEdo> yep
1199 2012-04-22 22:51:37 <[Tycho]> Also notice the drop at sunday.
1200 2012-04-22 22:51:45 <TuxBlackEdo> it's so obvious
1201 2012-04-22 22:51:53 <copumpkin> I wouldn't say it's conclusive, though
1202 2012-04-22 22:51:58 <TuxBlackEdo> really?
1203 2012-04-22 22:52:01 <TuxBlackEdo> why not?
1204 2012-04-22 22:52:09 <copumpkin> back when I mined I turned off my computer at night cause it was loud as hell and I got sick of it
1205 2012-04-22 22:52:14 <copumpkin> :P
1206 2012-04-22 22:52:24 <TuxBlackEdo> yeah thats excactly what it is
1207 2012-04-22 22:52:32 <TuxBlackEdo> except its about 1400 computers
1208 2012-04-22 22:52:36 <gmaxwell> TuxBlackEdo: I pointed out to you earlier that some large miners have dynamic clock control that gives them a day/night cycle like that.
1209 2012-04-22 22:52:36 <dwon> For all you know, it could be some grassroots "donate your GPU time to cancer research" campaign.
1210 2012-04-22 22:52:41 <[Tycho]> Why 1400 ?
1211 2012-04-22 22:52:48 <gmaxwell> (yes, in this case it's probably a botnet... but you can't say that from the graph)
1212 2012-04-22 22:52:49 <TuxBlackEdo> [Tycho], that's what luke-jr said
1213 2012-04-22 22:52:58 <TuxBlackEdo> gmaxwell, yes you can
1214 2012-04-22 22:52:58 * copumpkin shrug
1215 2012-04-22 22:53:03 <[Tycho]> dwon: then the owner can just show it.
1216 2012-04-22 22:53:05 <TuxBlackEdo> because the waves arent uniform
1217 2012-04-22 22:53:22 <luke-jr> more importantly, how do you know it's an *illegal* botnet?
1218 2012-04-22 22:53:40 <gmaxwell> TuxBlackEdo: nor are the ones from temp controlled clockrate!
1219 2012-04-22 22:53:52 <[Tycho]> Of course it's legal. Someone just used his 1400 PCs.
1220 2012-04-22 22:53:53 <gmaxwell> well, 1400 was the lifetime IP count.
1221 2012-04-22 22:54:12 <sipa> i tend to call "legal botnets" rather "clusters", and use botnet when there's an implied assumption of illegality
1222 2012-04-22 22:54:15 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: "load this and the funds will be donated to cure cancer" < legal botnet
1223 2012-04-22 22:54:26 <TuxBlackEdo> that doesn't make it illegal
1224 2012-04-22 22:54:29 <TuxBlackEdo> i mean
1225 2012-04-22 22:54:30 <TuxBlackEdo> legal
1226 2012-04-22 22:54:31 <DiabloD3> thats insane though
1227 2012-04-22 22:54:39 <gmaxwell> (it's a 'botnet' if we're defining uses a lot of IPs to be a botnet)
1228 2012-04-22 22:54:40 <DiabloD3> people like that should use the @home project for cancer research
1229 2012-04-22 22:54:56 <luke-jr> sipa: then we have no real evidence that address is a botnet ;)
1230 2012-04-22 22:54:58 <[Tycho]> gmaxwell: yes, I have some "legal botnets", but in those cases the owner showed me how it works and why it's legal.
1231 2012-04-22 22:54:59 <gmaxwell> DiabloD3: there is (was?) one pool with that theme.
1232 2012-04-22 22:55:09 <DiabloD3> thats insane
1233 2012-04-22 22:55:16 <luke-jr> DiabloD3: why @home over bitcoin?
1234 2012-04-22 22:55:16 <TuxBlackEdo> luke-jr even had a person come into his channel to tell him a trojan got bundled with a gpu tool that mined on his pool
1235 2012-04-22 22:55:17 <DiabloD3> no money donated to cancer research goes to cancer research
1236 2012-04-22 22:55:25 <gmaxwell> there was also that communist mining pool by the person who went on to create devcoin.
1237 2012-04-22 22:55:27 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: oh, is that this one?
1238 2012-04-22 22:55:28 <DiabloD3> it just goes to rich people so they can buy yachts
1239 2012-04-22 22:55:33 <DiabloD3> luke-jr: thats why.
1240 2012-04-22 22:55:37 <TuxBlackEdo> luke-jr, you had enough of a warning, so I am going to drop it now
1241 2012-04-22 22:55:42 <DiabloD3> no one should ever trust those cancer donation things
1242 2012-04-22 22:55:57 <DiabloD3> the only way to cure cancer is to kill anyone that stands in the way of it being cured
1243 2012-04-22 22:55:59 <dwon> I do think it's probably an illegal botnet, but I'm not so confident that I'd bypass the legal system and decide myself, if I were a pool operator. In any case, if it were an illegal botnet, the owners of the computers in the botnet---not me---would be entitled to the BTC generated, so I wouldn't just keep the funds.
1244 2012-04-22 22:55:59 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: explain why I should risk the stability of the pool, for unsubstantated allegations.
1245 2012-04-22 22:56:15 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: not to mention taking someone else's money
1246 2012-04-22 22:56:20 <Joric> and it all goes to 13j5XQEnXzgTi3ihJLLi3DctDZbU26KJ16? that's a cool mining rig, almost 10 ghashes
1247 2012-04-22 22:56:43 <Joric> total received: 40.05528651 BTC
1248 2012-04-22 22:56:55 <[Tycho]> Serious business.
1249 2012-04-22 22:56:57 <TuxBlackEdo> luke-jr, why should you risk the intergrity of bitcoin for 5ghash?
1250 2012-04-22 22:57:05 zeiris has joined
1251 2012-04-22 22:57:12 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: the integrity of bitcoin is not at jeopardy here.
1252 2012-04-22 22:57:17 <TuxBlackEdo> yes it is
1253 2012-04-22 22:57:40 <copumpkin> lol
1254 2012-04-22 22:57:45 <Eliel> TuxBlackEdo: what kind of integrity are you talking about?
1255 2012-04-22 22:57:52 * copumpkin hands TuxBlackEdo a sign and a bell and points to the street corner
1256 2012-04-22 22:58:35 <luke-jr> if police (from any jurisdiction) contact me and give me legal authorization to interfere with that user, that's fine; at least I know there's evidence and it's being investigated
1257 2012-04-22 22:58:51 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
1258 2012-04-22 22:59:18 <TuxBlackEdo> when it does come to the point where the law is involved, they'll pretty much hold luke-jr responsible just as much as the botnet operator
1259 2012-04-22 22:59:31 <luke-jr> there's no grounds to
1260 2012-04-22 22:59:41 <copumpkin> just like they hold ISPs responsible when infringing material is found on them, right?
1261 2012-04-22 22:59:44 <TuxBlackEdo> you have had people come into your channel to personally tell you about trojans that mine on their computer using your pool
1262 2012-04-22 22:59:45 <copumpkin> oh wait
1263 2012-04-22 22:59:54 <dwon> Honestly, I think luke-jr exposes himself to more liability if he acts without a court order, and turns out to be wrong.
1264 2012-04-22 23:00:04 <luke-jr> TuxBlackEdo: I've had people come in, make an allegation, and claim they destroyed all the evidence.
1265 2012-04-22 23:00:28 <luke-jr> also, these people never seem willing to contact the police
1266 2012-04-22 23:00:48 <TuxBlackEdo> i see you don't care, so i don't care...
1267 2012-04-22 23:00:54 <dwon> TuxBlackEdo: I found this malware on my computer the other day that was programmed to send my bitcoins to you. I want them back.
1268 2012-04-22 23:01:01 <dwon> People can say anything in IRC.
1269 2012-04-22 23:01:01 <luke-jr> I am not the police. It's not my job to investigate and prosecute criminal activity.
1270 2012-04-22 23:01:03 <[Tycho]> Probably luke-jr has dual morality :)
1271 2012-04-22 23:02:49 <luke-jr> if it was my job to investigate, prosecute, judge, sentence, and execute, and TuxBlackEdo seems to think, I'd be out there killing abortionists ;)
1272 2012-04-22 23:03:37 <luke-jr> but that's the police, State attorney, jury, circuit judge, and â?'s jobs.
1273 2012-04-22 23:03:39 <[Tycho]> Religious people are dangerous, as expected :)
1274 2012-04-22 23:04:44 <dwon> luke-jr: If you do get around to killing those abortionists, and they have orphaned infants, can you collect those and send them to me and my baby-eating atheist bretheren?
1275 2012-04-22 23:05:20 <luke-jr> dwon: I don't endorse governments where one man does all 5 jobs listed ;)
1276 2012-04-22 23:05:30 <luke-jr> (so I wouldn't accept such a position)
1277 2012-04-22 23:05:50 <guruvan> I may be your job to report it if you absolutely /know/ it's criminal, and have clear evidence. Without it, seeking it should require a court order as dwon suggested.
1278 2012-04-22 23:05:59 <dwon> luke-jr: That's probably good. I just haven't had BBQ baby back ribs in *so* long...
1279 2012-04-22 23:06:37 <luke-jr> guruvan: I don't see how it could be my job to report something, when the victim refuses to and even destroys evidence
1280 2012-04-22 23:07:05 <dwon> What guruvan said. At most, you'd want to *do nothing*, except preserve the evidence and report it, I would think. (IANAL; TINLA, etc.)
1281 2012-04-22 23:07:12 <guruvan> clearly not luke-jr - you can only report what is absolutely factual evidence.
1282 2012-04-22 23:07:31 <guruvan> if the evidence is destroyed, what can be done?
1283 2012-04-22 23:07:38 <guruvan> pics or it didn't happen
1284 2012-04-22 23:07:40 <dwon> luke-jr: The law just might require it. Technically, crimes are against the state, not the victim, so the state can choose to pursue it anyway.
1285 2012-04-22 23:07:54 <luke-jr> also, I should mention the last time I was involved in a botnet investigation, the FBI gave up on it.
1286 2012-04-22 23:07:58 <dwon> It might depends on your jurisdiction; I dunno.
1287 2012-04-22 23:08:04 <dwon> *depend
1288 2012-04-22 23:08:30 <guruvan> luke-jr: that doesn't surprise me - leads go cold fast I'm sure
1289 2012-04-22 23:08:31 <luke-jr> and there was a lot of damages piled up
1290 2012-04-22 23:08:50 <luke-jr> guruvan: apparently the botnet operation was p2p with digital signatures for commands
1291 2012-04-22 23:09:14 <guruvan> seems that is the trend
1292 2012-04-22 23:10:00 <Joric> why botnets even exist, especially mining ones they must be consuming resources as crazy
1293 2012-04-22 23:10:46 <guruvan> mining botnets are likely to be very cautious about security and mining while the host is in use
1294 2012-04-22 23:11:37 <guruvan> many infected machines are otherwise much more secure than when originally compromised - botnet operators want to maintain their investments
1295 2012-04-22 23:11:55 <dwon> A lot of people are like the sales guy here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRGljemfwUE I bet they wouldn't notice their CPU/GPU fans blowing constantly.
1296 2012-04-22 23:12:25 <luke-jr> dwon: yeah, but they'd definitely notice cgminer -I 11
1297 2012-04-22 23:12:32 <luke-jr> that crap makes your mouse move slow
1298 2012-04-22 23:13:06 <dwon> Yeah, but people are used to Windows getting "slower" over time. I've seen people just buy a new computer, rather than cleaning out the crap.
1299 2012-04-22 23:13:16 <guruvan> yes - I'd imagine the bot software would startup after hours
1300 2012-04-22 23:14:07 <guruvan> dwon: the botnet would try to avoid that wouldn't it - keep the system clean, running well, performing, and the user not complaining, thus avoinding detection or replacement
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1304 2012-04-22 23:22:06 <dwon> guruvan: I guess. Do normal people still turn off their computers when they're done using them, though?
1305 2012-04-22 23:24:17 <guruvan> Hmm....I think probably not so much in the office - just leave them to do their thing. Running IT shops, I asked users not to shut machines down
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1310 2012-04-22 23:27:01 <dwon> Oh, I gave the wrong link. It was episode 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SNxaJlicEU :)
1311 2012-04-22 23:29:46 <luke-jr> lol
1312 2012-04-22 23:29:49 <luke-jr> and nobody noticed XD
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1314 2012-04-22 23:44:05 <Joric> damnit it was 10 minutes long
1315 2012-04-22 23:53:13 ByronJoh1son is now known as ByronJohnson