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 48 2012-04-27 02:35:45 <freewil> anyone here familiar with listsinceblock?
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 84 2012-04-27 04:23:41 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: freewil opened issue 1153 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1153>
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141 2012-04-27 09:27:43 <fiddur> Why hasn't my testnet transaction gotten any confirmation?  It's done with bitcoin-qt 0.6.0.6-beta on debian 2012-03-16 09:55.  It's connected, the recipient received the notice but also sees it with 0 confirmations.  Latest block received a few seconds ago.... Any clues?
142 2012-04-27 09:28:05 <sipa> how long has it been?
143 2012-04-27 09:28:25 <fiddur> 11 days.
144 2012-04-27 09:28:39 <sipa> oh, testnet
145 2012-04-27 09:28:45 <sipa> testnet is broken
146 2012-04-27 09:28:56 <fiddur> I thought it was only forked?
147 2012-04-27 09:29:13 <sipa> yes, a few times
148 2012-04-27 09:30:02 <fiddur> So, how would I go about to place my testnet clients on the same fork as e.g. blockexplorer?
149 2012-04-27 09:30:11 <sipa> but combine that with few nodes, little mining, and the fact that old nodes keep running
150 2012-04-27 09:30:33 <sipa> it depends on which version of the code you run
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152 2012-04-27 09:30:41 <fiddur> 0.6.0.6-beta
153 2012-04-27 09:30:47 <fiddur> bitcoin-qt
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156 2012-04-27 09:32:11 <fiddur> Or is it simpler just to create a new wallet and start cpu-mining after each transaction?
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158 2012-04-27 09:32:19 <sipa> 0.6.1 or 0.7.0 will probably do a full reset of testnet to clean up
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161 2012-04-27 09:32:45 <sipa> yes, you should be able to find a block every 20 minutes with a cpu
162 2012-04-27 09:32:54 <sipa> if no one else is mining
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166 2012-04-27 09:33:55 <fiddur> ok.  thank's for the input.
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271 2012-04-27 14:20:02 <Diapolo> BlueMatt: Are you on :)?
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273 2012-04-27 14:27:04 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened issue 1154 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1154>
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276 2012-04-27 14:32:04 <gavinandresen> I just pushed v0.6.rc1 tag
277 2012-04-27 14:38:24 <sipa> gavinandresen: it seems you didn't use an annotated tag?
278 2012-04-27 14:38:56 <gavinandresen> yeah, I didn't bother signing it
279 2012-04-27 14:39:09 <sipa> it seems git-describe only uses annotated ones
280 2012-04-27 14:39:28 <gavinandresen> sigh.  Ok, I'll delete and re-upload a signed one
281 2012-04-27 14:39:36 <sipa> sorry :)
282 2012-04-27 14:39:53 <sipa> v0.6.0-207-g2c31cfc might be a confusing name for 0.6.1rc1
283 2012-04-27 14:41:28 <gavinandresen> Actually, before I do... should we link against the latest OpenSSL?  I know the consensus was that the recent bug doesn't affect bitcoin....
284 2012-04-27 14:41:35 <gavinandresen> ... but it wouldn't hurt
285 2012-04-27 14:45:46 <sipa> i'm not exactly sure whether we link staticially or dynamically to openssl on windows?
286 2012-04-27 14:46:09 <Diapolo> Would it be possible to create an updated qtgui_deps_1.zip for Windows if using newer SSS libs please :)?
287 2012-04-27 14:46:48 <Diapolo> sipa: dynamically sounds wrong, as Windows has no OpenSSL libs included, right?
288 2012-04-27 14:47:12 <gavinandresen> yeah, pretty sure we're linking statically: deps-win32.yml builds openssl
289 2012-04-27 14:48:03 <sipa> in that case i guess we should update (though i agree the bug doesn't affect us)
290 2012-04-27 14:48:59 <Diapolo> Who did that qtgui_deps_1.zip initially and should I open an issue for it?
291 2012-04-27 14:49:04 <gavinandresen> I'll update and then re-tag 0.6.1rc1
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294 2012-04-27 14:56:45 <gavinandresen> ok, SIGNED v0.6.1rc1 tag pushed, with windows linking against latest openssl
295 2012-04-27 14:58:47 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened issue 1155 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1155>
296 2012-04-27 14:59:59 <paulo_> in what part of the source code does it check if the block is valid?
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298 2012-04-27 15:00:27 <paulo_> i'm looking at protocol.cpp to see where it receives the block, but from there I'm lost
299 2012-04-27 15:00:37 <sipa> paulo_: main.cpp, CheckBlock, AcceptBlock, ConnectBlock
300 2012-04-27 15:02:43 <paulo_> is it just me, or is too much of the code in main.cpp?
301 2012-04-27 15:03:01 <Diapolo> sipa: did you mind reading what dbenv.set_flags(DB_REGION_INIT, 1); does or if it could speedup DB code a little?
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304 2012-04-27 15:03:57 <Diapolo> paulo_: think so too, I have some problems in understanding which global belongs to which part in ;)
305 2012-04-27 15:04:37 <sipa> paulo_: that's certainly not just you :)
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307 2012-04-27 15:05:02 <sipa> Diapolo: hmm, i doubt it will help much
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321 2012-04-27 15:22:39 <Diapolo> sipa: it doesn't need to help much, but perhaps you can bench it, it's a one-liner ;)
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324 2012-04-27 15:47:12 <paulo_> where does it check if an address has enough balance for a transaction in a block?
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326 2012-04-27 15:51:11 <paulo_> it doesn't seem to be in CheckTransaction()
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328 2012-04-27 15:51:41 <gavinandresen> tx.ConnectInputs()
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331 2012-04-27 15:53:13 <Diablo-D3> everyone, remember to vote: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78052.0
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333 2012-04-27 15:54:34 <Diapolo> Diablo-D3: donw
334 2012-04-27 15:54:36 <Diapolo> done
335 2012-04-27 15:55:36 <gavinandresen> sipa: I'm re-tagging rc1, I'm bumping the name of the win32 deps file
336 2012-04-27 15:57:37 <Diapolo> gavinandresen: Is there any place to dl the deps.zip ;)? I could imediately close one issue ^^.
337 2012-04-27 15:58:20 <gavinandresen> I'll be rebuilding the deps.zip in just a minute, I'll upload when done
338 2012-04-27 15:59:38 PiZZaMaN2 has joined
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340 2012-04-27 16:00:17 wasabi2 has joined
341 2012-04-27 16:00:33 <Diapolo> great stuff!
342 2012-04-27 16:04:32 toffoo has joined
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350 2012-04-27 16:09:23 <Diapolo> gavinandresen: can you link it here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1155 I'm off now
351 2012-04-27 16:09:25 Diapolo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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370 2012-04-27 16:53:33 <paulo_> i don't understand the purpose of double SHA256
371 2012-04-27 16:54:19 <jeremias> it's just for fun!
372 2012-04-27 16:54:45 <jeremias> I don't either, but as I've understood, the hashing function could be anything
373 2012-04-27 16:59:04 <gavinandresen> jeremias: see http://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/779/hashing-or-encrypting-twice-to-increase-security
374 2012-04-27 17:01:11 capiscuas has joined
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378 2012-04-27 17:11:21 <luke-jr> devrandom: gitian seems to still need python-vm-builder for LXC
379 2012-04-27 17:11:32 <luke-jr> needs KVM too :/
380 2012-04-27 17:15:34 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
381 2012-04-27 17:16:31 <devrandom> luke-jr: KVM??
382 2012-04-27 17:16:52 <luke-jr> devrandom: for make-vm-base
383 2012-04-27 17:16:56 <luke-jr> make-base-vm*
384 2012-04-27 17:17:13 <devrandom> not if you supply --lxc
385 2012-04-27 17:17:17 capiscuas has joined
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387 2012-04-27 17:17:22 <luke-jr> devrandom: even if you do
388 2012-04-27 17:18:02 <luke-jr> devrandom: make-base-vm still uses kvm/vmbuilder to make it
389 2012-04-27 17:18:03 <devrandom> oh, I see
390 2012-04-27 17:18:31 <devrandom> you can bypass all that and make your base vm with debootstrap
391 2012-04-27 17:18:36 <gavinandresen> wtf:  I'm getting -I"/home/ubuntu/build/openssl-1.0.0e/include"  compiling win32 bitcoind, but can't see any 1.0.0e in the latest tagged 0.6.1rc1 source tree....
392 2012-04-27 17:18:41 <devrandom> see commented out line in make-base-vm
393 2012-04-27 17:18:53 capiscuas has joined
394 2012-04-27 17:19:43 <devrandom> luke-jr: but you'll have to make it into an image manually
395 2012-04-27 17:20:14 <devrandom> luke-jr: I'll try to clean that up, or if you get around to it, patch is welcome
396 2012-04-27 17:20:34 <luke-jr> devrandom: also, libexec/on-target doesn't seem to work with normal BASH :|
397 2012-04-27 17:20:52 <luke-jr> the "." alias for "source" is a BASHism, so won't work if you use #!/bin/sh
398 2012-04-27 17:21:22 <davout> does anyone know how hard it would be to patch the client so that fees are taken off the sent amount, and not in addition to it ?
399 2012-04-27 17:21:33 <devrandom> luke-jr: ok, will fix that
400 2012-04-27 17:21:39 capiscuas has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
401 2012-04-27 17:21:58 <drizztbsd> luke-jr: dash! :D
402 2012-04-27 17:23:20 <devrandom> luke-jr: done
403 2012-04-27 17:23:24 <luke-jr> hmm odd, the qemu it spawns is using a different port than gitian wants
404 2012-04-27 17:23:44 <luke-jr> oh no
405 2012-04-27 17:24:01 <luke-jr> for some reason, qemu is only binding 127.0.0.1
406 2012-04-27 17:26:12 <luke-jr> devrandom: also, "source gconfig" looks for gconfig in $PWD, not script dir ;)
407 2012-04-27 17:26:21 <drizztbsd> luke-jr: how are you using kvm to launch miner?
408 2012-04-27 17:26:45 <luke-jr> drizztbsd: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/588052/
409 2012-04-27 17:27:30 <drizztbsd> without X on the server?
410 2012-04-27 17:28:59 topace has joined
411 2012-04-27 17:29:49 <luke-jr> drizztbsd: this is all on my desktop, but you could certainly build KVM without X support
412 2012-04-27 17:31:30 <devrandom> luke-jr: hmm... I should be testing before committing :-P
413 2012-04-27 17:31:35 <devrandom>  I'll work on it later
414 2012-04-27 17:31:48 <devrandom> luke-jr: there should be no qemu with lxc
415 2012-04-27 17:32:10 <drizztbsd> lxc is only a chroot-on-steroids
416 2012-04-27 17:32:51 * luke-jr wonders how this works on Ubuntu
417 2012-04-27 17:32:59 <luke-jr> drizztbsd: "only"
418 2012-04-27 17:34:01 <luke-jr> I guess dash has a bunch of non-standard behaviour itself :/
419 2012-04-27 17:34:49 <drizztbsd> dash should be quite POSIX
420 2012-04-27 17:37:46 <luke-jr> drizztbsd: it seems that it sources from the script directory instead of $PWD
421 2012-04-27 17:38:04 <drizztbsd> . wants absolute path
422 2012-04-27 17:38:07 <drizztbsd> or
423 2012-04-27 17:38:10 <drizztbsd> . ./script.sh
424 2012-04-27 17:38:16 <drizztbsd> you can't use . script.sh
425 2012-04-27 17:38:18 gfinn has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
426 2012-04-27 17:38:48 <luke-jr> gitian does, and dash tolerates it
427 2012-04-27 17:39:09 <drizztbsd> no, dash does NOT tollerate it
428 2012-04-27 17:39:25 <drizztbsd> $ touch prova.sh ; . prova.sh
429 2012-04-27 17:39:26 <drizztbsd> dash: 1: .: prova.sh: not found
430 2012-04-27 17:39:38 <paulo_> i'm bored.
431 2012-04-27 17:39:38 <drizztbsd> $ . ./prova.sh
432 2012-04-27 17:39:40 <drizztbsd> $
433 2012-04-27 17:41:35 <luke-jr> drizztbsd: then explain gitian
434 2012-04-27 17:43:00 <drizztbsd> maybe gitian have scripts on the PATH
435 2012-04-27 17:43:18 <drizztbsd> by the way just change it :P
436 2012-04-27 17:43:20 <drizztbsd> I need to go, bye
437 2012-04-27 17:43:28 drizztbsd has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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441 2012-04-27 17:48:52 <luke-jr> amazing. looks like KVM isn't the reason gitian is slow :|
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447 2012-04-27 18:00:40 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: did you bump the version on the deps input?
448 2012-04-27 18:01:22 <luke-jr> zip -r $OUTDIR/bitcoin-deps-0.0.3.zip \
449 2012-04-27 18:01:41 <luke-jr> - "bitcoin-deps-0.0.3.zip"
450 2012-04-27 18:02:55 <luke-jr> ah, you did later
451 2012-04-27 18:03:01 Lyspooner has joined
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453 2012-04-27 18:03:14 b4epoche_ is now known as b4epoche
454 2012-04-27 18:03:19 <luke-jr> $ grep '1\.0\.0' $(git ls-files)
455 2012-04-27 18:03:21 <luke-jr> src/makefile.mingw: -I"C:\openssl-1.0.0d-mgw\include"
456 2012-04-27 18:03:22 <luke-jr> src/makefile.mingw: -L"C:\openssl-1.0.0d-mgw"
457 2012-04-27 18:03:24 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: ^
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469 2012-04-27 18:33:29 <paulo_> do we trust timestamps on blocks and just put limits on how far it deviates from the current time?
470 2012-04-27 18:33:33  has quit (Clown|!Clown@static-87-79-93-140.netcologne.de|Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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472 2012-04-27 18:33:56 <gmaxwell> paulo_: Trust?
473 2012-04-27 18:34:03 <Diablo-D3> lol paulo_ said trust
474 2012-04-27 18:34:45 <paulo_> i mean, do we always believe them to be legitimate timestamps?
475 2012-04-27 18:35:04 <Diablo-D3> no, we believe they might exist.
476 2012-04-27 18:35:19 <gmaxwell> paulo_: the times really aren't used for much— nothing other than setting the difficulty. They're restricted to the allowed range and that it.  (>median of last 11 and less then 2 hours from the current time)
477 2012-04-27 18:37:32 b4epoche has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
478 2012-04-27 18:37:32 b4epoche_ is now known as b4epoche
479 2012-04-27 18:38:00 <paulo_> are there any implications of the fact that information lags across the network?
480 2012-04-27 18:38:07 osmosis has joined
481 2012-04-27 18:40:27 * paulo_ apologizes his question is too vague
482 2012-04-27 18:40:32 paulo_ is now known as satoshi
483 2012-04-27 18:40:37 <gmaxwell> Thanks, I was struggling with that.
484 2012-04-27 18:40:43 satoshi is now known as paulo_
485 2012-04-27 18:40:48 <paulo_> lol, had to try that
486 2012-04-27 18:40:58 <gmaxwell> "Yes, Miners on Uranus would have to set their clocks in the future to get accepted on earth at all"
487 2012-04-27 18:41:15 <Diablo-D3> man
488 2012-04-27 18:41:18 <Diablo-D3> wouldnt that be hilarious
489 2012-04-27 18:41:20 <Diablo-D3> a pool on amrs
490 2012-04-27 18:41:22 <Diablo-D3> thats so vast
491 2012-04-27 18:41:27 <Diablo-D3> it can 51% attack the earth chain and win
492 2012-04-27 18:41:54 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: It would have to. At 13 minutes away it would be always stale unless it was the majority.
493 2012-04-27 18:42:10 <gmaxwell> (well, not always, but mostly)
494 2012-04-27 18:42:23 <Diablo-D3> I was going to say 16
495 2012-04-27 18:42:28 <Diablo-D3> lets ask wa
496 2012-04-27 18:42:53 <gmaxwell> Depends on the orbital positions.
497 2012-04-27 18:43:06 <paulo_> "Bitcoin uses the block chain algorithm to achieve distributed consensus on who owns what coins." - very well said.
498 2012-04-27 18:43:17 <Diablo-D3> huh
499 2012-04-27 18:43:22 <gmaxwell> I think we can get as far 22 minutes apart.
500 2012-04-27 18:43:27 <Diablo-D3> 7.6 minutes
501 2012-04-27 18:43:28 <paulo_> which means i can use block chains on anything that needs distributed consensus.
502 2012-04-27 18:43:31 <Lyspooner> if miners on uranus could get cheaper hash/watt then that's where all mining would occur
503 2012-04-27 18:43:32 <Diablo-D3> which I assume is current
504 2012-04-27 18:43:49 <Diablo-D3> Lyspooner: well, they'd be better off near jupiter if they can stave off the magnetic fields
505 2012-04-27 18:43:58 <gmaxwell> paulo_: you can, but without the right incentives they may not be attack resistant.
506 2012-04-27 18:44:21 <gmaxwell> paulo_: and if you don't care about attack resistance you can achieve consensus much easier: just appoint some node to make the decisions.
507 2012-04-27 18:44:27 dvide_ has quit ()
508 2012-04-27 18:44:42 <Diablo-D3> THE MAN, man
509 2012-04-27 18:44:49 <gmaxwell> Lyspooner: actually, no.. without tweaks nodes on earth won't accept any of their blocks.
510 2012-04-27 18:44:56 <gmaxwell> Lyspooner: mars yes, uranus no.
511 2012-04-27 18:45:07 <Diablo-D3> yeah, uranus is quite far away
512 2012-04-27 18:45:41 <Diablo-D3> lets ask wa!
513 2012-04-27 18:45:52 <Lyspooner> gmaxwell: then tweak
514 2012-04-27 18:45:55 <Diablo-D3> 174 light minutes.
515 2012-04-27 18:47:27 devrandom has joined
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518 2012-04-27 18:56:31 <paulo_> i'm reading the bitcoin paper
519 2012-04-27 18:56:41 <paulo_> are we pruning old transactions or no?
520 2012-04-27 18:56:47 <Diablo-D3> no
521 2012-04-27 18:59:19 <paulo_> "The network is robust in its unstructured simplicity.  Nodes work all at once with little coordination.  They do not need to be identified, since messages are not routed to any particular place and only need to be delivered on a best effort basis.  Nodes can leave and rejoin the network at will, accepting the proof-of-work chain as proof of what happened while they were gone. "
522 2012-04-27 18:59:26 <paulo_> very nice.
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538 2012-04-27 19:16:37 <davout> hey, could someone give me a hand for a minute ?
539 2012-04-27 19:16:58 <davout> just need someone to grep their debug.log for TXes 7dae7272a356d1340d02a81690951e7323823b9f534da1c8b120acb08b106f4c
540 2012-04-27 19:17:03 <davout> and f0dd9c4847eb6dc0f7ddb021ab8a315fb2653b8d04ff2f39f3e62bce59951177
541 2012-04-27 19:17:25 <davout> see why they appear as invalid for the network but still got sent from my bitcoind
542 2012-04-27 19:21:22 <luke-jr> AcceptToMemoryPool(): accepted f0dd9c4847
543 2012-04-27 19:21:35 <luke-jr> no sign of the other one…
544 2012-04-27 19:21:58 <davout> luke-jr: thank you very much
545 2012-04-27 19:22:07 <davout> they're originating from instawallet
546 2012-04-27 19:22:55 <davout> two users reported that they were flagged as double-spends by blockchain.info, but i was unable to verify that, since none of them appear anymore at blockchain.info or blockexplorer
547 2012-04-27 19:23:15 <davout> and now they're happily hanging in instawallet's wallet, unconfirmed
548 2012-04-27 19:23:30 <davout> any idea about how to make these go away ?
549 2012-04-27 19:23:46 <davout> i assume a rescan won't help much
550 2012-04-27 19:24:19 <Diablo-D3> remember: vote: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78052.0
551 2012-04-27 19:24:37 <sturles> Same here.  Got f0dd9c4847 not 7dae7272a3.
552 2012-04-27 19:25:54 RazielZ has joined
553 2012-04-27 19:26:52 <davout> oh wait, yes f0dd9c4847 *is* actually valid and confirmed
554 2012-04-27 19:26:58 * davout facepalms
555 2012-04-27 19:27:34 <davout> still have no idea how to make the other one go away :/
556 2012-04-27 19:40:06 <davout> can any of you find 62e3744257bcc04bc02a3397a441656f7578240be5182591982ebc6fd46030b7 ?
557 2012-04-27 19:40:24 <davout> i think that's the other one that's actually invalid
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564 2012-04-27 19:54:17 <devrandom> luke-jr: . uses PATH, and gitian prepends libexec to PATH :-P
565 2012-04-27 19:54:42 <devrandom> gitian is slower than just compiling?
566 2012-04-27 19:54:47 <luke-jr> devrandom: much
567 2012-04-27 19:54:56 <luke-jr> devrandom: it takes like an hour to go through the "install packages" step
568 2012-04-27 19:54:58 <devrandom> why would that be?
569 2012-04-27 19:55:14 <devrandom> hm... takes a few minutes here
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571 2012-04-27 19:55:26 <devrandom> oh, are you referring to make-base-vm?
572 2012-04-27 19:55:29 <luke-jr> no
573 2012-04-27 19:55:30 <luke-jr> gbuild
574 2012-04-27 19:55:42 <devrandom> then we are seeing different behavior
575 2012-04-27 19:55:45 <devrandom> I have to run
576 2012-04-27 19:55:48 <devrandom> will be on later
577 2012-04-27 19:55:58 <Diablo-D3> lol someone sent me .1337 in donations to dm
578 2012-04-27 19:56:31 <luke-jr> I should have suspected something when I confirmed I can play PS2 games in an emulator inside KVM…
579 2012-04-27 19:57:46 <Diablo-D3> ?
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615 2012-04-27 21:22:17 <etotheipi_> sipa: I just implemented your HDW spec:  https://gist.github.com/2513316
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631 2012-04-27 21:39:11 <etotheipi_> sipa: I just realized the labeling of the output vectors is confusing... "depth" refers to the number of recursive CKD calls, but doesn't identify which branch it's on
632 2012-04-27 21:39:30 <etotheipi_> let me see if I can regenerate it them in m/i/j/k form
633 2012-04-27 21:39:42 <etotheipi_> or maybe you can figure it out yourself... :)
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648 2012-04-27 22:11:01 <devrandom> luke-jr: BTW, you can use gbuild -i to skip reverting to the base image when you build
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656 2012-04-27 22:13:00 <gavinandresen> rc1 built and uploaded, gitian sigs pushed:  https://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.6.1/test/
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661 2012-04-27 22:21:26 <etotheipi_> sipa: Updated the test vector output to make it easier to match key-tree coords:  included the key  M/1/1/18446744073709551615  :)
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664 2012-04-27 22:21:29 <etotheipi_> https://gist.github.com/2513316
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674 2012-04-27 22:33:26 <luke-jr> b9edb45129d44fb78d34986c4e24965f4fa9d4bb56b96390e045d95d113d59a5  bitcoin-deps-0.0.4.zip
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680 2012-04-27 23:08:30 <sipa> etotheipi_: you use 64-bit child identifiers?
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692 2012-04-27 23:46:17 <etotheipi_> sipa: oh crap...
693 2012-04-27 23:46:32 <etotheipi_> I did because I thought uint32_t was unnecessarily restrictive
694 2012-04-27 23:46:40 <etotheipi_> but I forgot the spec said to expand it to 32-bytes
695 2012-04-27 23:47:50 <etotheipi_> err... wait, that still works
696 2012-04-27 23:48:14 <etotheipi_> right... there's room for up to 256-bit child indices
697 2012-04-27 23:49:41 <etotheipi_> sipa: so is there a problem with that?
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699 2012-04-27 23:50:56 <sipa> etotheipi_: well, it just needs to be enumeratable
700 2012-04-27 23:50:58 <etotheipi_> I figured if the spec allows for 32-BYTE indices, then might was let users leverage it... there may be uses I haven't thought of yet, taking advantage of random access
701 2012-04-27 23:51:13 <etotheipi_> sipa: how so?
702 2012-04-27 23:51:37 <sipa> to be able to automatically detect mew keys and chains that are being used
703 2012-04-27 23:51:51 <etotheipi_> under normal operations, yet
704 2012-04-27 23:52:07 <etotheipi_> but users may have other reasons
705 2012-04-27 23:52:16 <etotheipi_> and other uses that don't require them to be enumerable
706 2012-04-27 23:52:27 <sipa> but there is no technical reason why you couldn't use even arbitrary bytestrings as child identifiers
707 2012-04-27 23:52:36 <etotheipi_> plus, 4 billion is kinda small in that respect... some users may generate billions of keys for one reason or another
708 2012-04-27 23:53:23 <etotheipi_> I can't give you explanations of why... I just don't see why it should be restricted to 32-BIT numbers... especially when you made room for 256-bits :)
709 2012-04-27 23:53:46 <sipa> hmac-sha512 takes 1024-bit blocks as input
710 2012-04-27 23:54:42 <luke-jr> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78301.0
711 2012-04-27 23:55:27 <sipa> etotheipi_: it might even be meaningful to exploit that
712 2012-04-27 23:55:55 <etotheipi_> sipa: how so?
713 2012-04-27 23:56:04 <sipa> restrict enumerable key ids to 32-bit numbers (or 64, but if it's not enough, you can cascade anyway.b
714 2012-04-27 23:56:15 <sipa> but let others be arbitrary bytestrings
715 2012-04-27 23:56:18 <etotheipi_> ahh
716 2012-04-27 23:56:26 <Diablo-D3> remember to vote: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78052.0
717 2012-04-27 23:56:43 <sipa> so e.g. m/0/"extern"/k
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720 2012-04-27 23:57:12 <etotheipi_> sipa: sounds good
721 2012-04-27 23:58:09 <sipa> restricted to 128 bytes
722 2012-04-27 23:58:26 <etotheipi_> if you don't mind the 1-in-2^24 chance of a hash result with 24- zero bytes up front, you can just use sha256 of the string
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724 2012-04-27 23:58:52 <etotheipi_> err... 2^8^24
725 2012-04-27 23:59:07 <etotheipi_> ... you know what I mean
726 2012-04-27 23:59:16 <sipa> hmac already apecifies an extra hashing step if the key is longer than the block size
727 2012-04-27 23:59:43 <sipa> so you could really say any bytestring