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 43 2012-05-06 03:22:30 * jgarzik finally gets around to following gmaxwell's lead -- building openssl rpms with -DPURIFY and ec -- and manages to solve a thorny data corruption bug
 44 2012-05-06 03:22:34 <jgarzik> (in rpcsrv, not bitcoin)
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 73 2012-05-06 05:11:56 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: randomproof opened pull request 1208 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1208>
 74 2012-05-06 05:28:27 <BlueMatt> sipa: ping
 75 2012-05-06 05:28:43 RainbowDashh is now known as D
 76 2012-05-06 05:28:53 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: kinda early in sipatime.
 77 2012-05-06 05:29:09 D is now known as P
 78 2012-05-06 05:29:16 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: well his whois isnt disconnected...
 79 2012-05-06 05:29:27 P is now known as RainbowDashh
 80 2012-05-06 05:29:33 <BlueMatt> but...meh, at least he'll ping when hes back
 81 2012-05-06 05:30:03 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: can you get whatever nodes you're running up on the addrman fixes? I just pulled them into master.
 82 2012-05-06 05:31:08 <gmaxwell> I'd like us to cut a release fairly soon with them, but I think they need a pretty good number of total userhours baking. (in particular, I'm not eager to cut a release that replaces a rare crash with a somewhat less rare crash-due-to-overeager-asserts)
 83 2012-05-06 05:31:23 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: any clue why this tiny snippet doesnt unlock properly (boost "Assertion `res == 0' failed.")
 84 2012-05-06 05:31:35 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: sadly, I have no permanently up nodes...
 85 2012-05-06 05:31:41 <gmaxwell> tisk tisk
 86 2012-05-06 05:31:42 * BlueMatt doesnt have the server space anywhere anymore :(
 87 2012-05-06 05:32:20 <BlueMatt> https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/commit/03410e0fd5cbdd10a28b13980982d10c56b45de5#diff-5
 88 2012-05-06 05:32:25 <BlueMatt> oops, forgot the link...
 89 2012-05-06 05:32:56 * BlueMatt is assuming "~interprocess_recursive_mutex(): Assertion `res == 0' failed." means some issue where someone forgot to unlock...
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 95 2012-05-06 05:40:24 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: deploying it on Eligius now
 96 2012-05-06 05:45:25 <dub> error: {"code":-4,"message":"Error: Transaction creation failed  "}
 97 2012-05-06 05:45:50 <dub> whats the largest amount to be sent in one tx?
 98 2012-05-06 05:46:20 <gmaxwell> dub: there isn't a maximum amount of bitcoin, there is a maximum amount of _data_.
 99 2012-05-06 05:46:47 <gmaxwell> so if you have a wallet with a zillion tiny inputs you can bump into that data limit.
100 2012-05-06 05:47:14 <dub> roger
101 2012-05-06 05:47:14 paulo_ has joined
102 2012-05-06 05:47:53 <gmaxwell> Is that something you hit on testnet or real bitcoin?
103 2012-05-06 05:48:03 <dub> i0coin :)
104 2012-05-06 05:49:33 <gmaxwell> ltc carries a patch to control the minimum size inputs that get considered for use.
105 2012-05-06 05:49:54 <Anon007> Santoshi Created the Bitcoin to help the Little Guy its not meant for use by the Corporations and it is Geared Towards People who are Honest and Trustworthy... Not the ELITES Stay Away from our Money You Print Your Own DEBT Backed Money... Don't Let BitCoins Become Centralized ANONYMOUS is Watching!
106 2012-05-06 05:50:28 <dub> coolstorybro
107 2012-05-06 05:50:35 <DiabloD3> csb
108 2012-05-06 05:50:36 <Anon007> Its The Truth
109 2012-05-06 05:51:36 <luke-jr> Anon007: how about instead of watching, Anonymous write code to address the scaling issues they're whining about?
110 2012-05-06 05:51:57 <dub> ITT: Truth
111 2012-05-06 05:52:27 <Joric> 'Don't Let BitCoins Become Centralized' is there a way to let them become centralized?
112 2012-05-06 05:52:58 <paulo_> Anon007: are you also AnonMiner?
113 2012-05-06 05:53:02 <Anon007> You have a Point there but you must remember anyone can say they are ANONYMOUS!
114 2012-05-06 05:53:18 <Anon007> You Caught me Paulo :)
115 2012-05-06 05:53:31 <DiabloD3> Anon007: stop trolling dude
116 2012-05-06 05:54:10 <Anon007> I am not Anonymous I am just another guy that is pissed off with Elites Trying to Control the 99% and I won't Stand for it Anymore!
117 2012-05-06 05:55:02 <Anon007> Sorry Devil I didn't mean to Burst a Blood Vessel I am just Voicing my Opinion am I allowed to have my own Thoughts and not be accused of Trolling???
118 2012-05-06 05:55:14 <gmaxwell> Less talk, more code.
119 2012-05-06 05:55:29 <DiabloD3> jarly
120 2012-05-06 05:55:35 SomeoneWeird is now known as s1w
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122 2012-05-06 05:58:12 <paulo_> lol Devil
123 2012-05-06 05:59:43 <wumpus> gmaxwell: right!
124 2012-05-06 06:00:25 <paulo_> as Satoshi said, "I'm better with code than with words though."
125 2012-05-06 06:01:33 <Anon007> Diablo Translates to Spanish for Devil I speak English so I simply Translated it :P
126 2012-05-06 06:01:42 <Joric> he must be terrible with words
127 2012-05-06 06:01:47 <Anon007> LOL
128 2012-05-06 06:02:24 <gmaxwell> Joric: When you show that you can write gabling sites that I don't instantly see how to exploit then you can complain about Satoshi's code.
129 2012-05-06 06:03:05 <paulo_> heh.
130 2012-05-06 06:03:06 <Anon007> Santoshi is a Genius and he needs to take control of his invention and not allow it to fall into the wrong hands... Max Keiser is Awesome and he is On Board with the BitCoin and he says we can Crash JP Morgan by simply Mining BitCoin and Buying Physical Silver!
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133 2012-05-06 06:04:09 <gmaxwell> Anon007: taking control is sort of the opposite of what makes bitcoin worthwhile.
134 2012-05-06 06:04:11 <wumpus> yea yea it needs to be more decentralized but a single person needs to take control of it...
135 2012-05-06 06:04:37 capiscuas has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
136 2012-05-06 06:04:54 <wumpus> did a clown escape from #bitcoin?
137 2012-05-06 06:05:00 <luke-jr> paulo_: except it turns out Satoshi wasn't too good with code either! <.<
138 2012-05-06 06:05:08 <Anon007> Yes you are correct gmaxwell but when Gavin said he has no interest in making the bitcoin system easier for anyone to mine he is saying that he is focused on the money and not helping the 99% :(
139 2012-05-06 06:05:37 <gmaxwell> ...
140 2012-05-06 06:05:52 <jine> luke-jr: He only said that he's better in code then text.
141 2012-05-06 06:05:56 <Anon007> Please Tell me I am Misunderstanding something when I listened to Gavin he claimed that there were no plans on making the BitCoin Mining more Profitable for people with slow rigs :(
142 2012-05-06 06:05:59 <luke-jr> jine: :p
143 2012-05-06 06:06:20 * luke-jr doesn't recall Gavin saying that, even if it were possible to do
144 2012-05-06 06:06:20 <jine> That doesn't say to much tho
145 2012-05-06 06:06:21 <jine> ;P
146 2012-05-06 06:06:28 <gmaxwell> Anon007: It _can't_ be more profitable for people with slow rigs. The design of bitcoin precludes that possiblity.
147 2012-05-06 06:06:44 <Anon007> Ok
148 2012-05-06 06:06:44 <luke-jr> it's not even supposed to be profitable at all
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150 2012-05-06 06:06:49 <gmaxwell> As luke says.
151 2012-05-06 06:07:40 <gmaxwell> Anon007: also— its really just about as (un)profitable, in terms of return on investment, for everyone.
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153 2012-05-06 06:07:56 <Anon007> Ok I misunderstand him than... It seemed like he was more interested in the Money than Helping Average Individuals get setup with mining and he also said he has no plans in supporting the Mining Pools :(
154 2012-05-06 06:08:19 <luke-jr> ………
155 2012-05-06 06:08:31 <gmaxwell> Mining pools create centeralization and are generally bad for bitcoin.
156 2012-05-06 06:09:01 <gmaxwell> They transfer power/control and wealth into a smaller set of pool operators. This has good and bad sides.
157 2012-05-06 06:09:05 <jine> gmaxwell:
158 2012-05-06 06:09:06 <jine> "version" : 60103, "protocolversion" : 60001, "walletversion" : 59900,
159 2012-05-06 06:09:08 <jine> Upgraded.
160 2012-05-06 06:09:30 <Anon007> Ok
161 2012-05-06 06:10:05 <Anon007> so how do I get bitcoins without a Pool... It would take ages to solve a block at 150 megahashes a second :(
162 2012-05-06 06:10:32 <luke-jr> Anon007: can you make a youtube video of you doing this rant verbally? it would make good humour material.
163 2012-05-06 06:10:37 <Anon007> I would be better off setting up a system that accepts bitcoins in exchange for services :)
164 2012-05-06 06:11:09 <wumpus> there are many such sites, just look around a bit on the wiki instead of ranting in the developer channel
165 2012-05-06 06:11:13 <Anon007> NAH just asking questions you never know unless you ask :)
166 2012-05-06 06:11:27 <gmaxwell> Anon007: mining isn't cumulative. It doesn't take 'ages' as much as 'its unlikely to happen at any given instant' ... but the better way to obtain bitcoins is to sell goods and services that people want.
167 2012-05-06 06:11:46 <BlueMatt> ummm...ok, so why does this dead-simple test fail: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/771/files#diff-25
168 2012-05-06 06:11:48 <Anon007> Ok Thank You GMaxWell
169 2012-05-06 06:12:02 <Anon007> That is the Best Answer here :)
170 2012-05-06 06:12:04 <BlueMatt> (gets "Didnt ever leave CS???")
171 2012-05-06 06:12:37 <gmaxwell> If you're really interested in mining — You can also use decenteralized pools like p2pool, or Luke's decenteralized pool support.. though both these things are currently pretty technical. But mining just isn't a great way to get bitcoins.
172 2012-05-06 06:13:19 <Anon007> I almost have 1 Bit Coin :P
173 2012-05-06 06:13:36 <Anon007> After Weeks of Mining and starting to get Blue Screens I stopped
174 2012-05-06 06:13:54 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it's too timing-dependent?
175 2012-05-06 06:14:27 <gmaxwell> as luke says, the sleeps are so short god knows what happens.
176 2012-05-06 06:14:32 <gmaxwell> You can't count on sleeps to be accurate.
177 2012-05-06 06:14:59 <wumpus> good that you stopped, getting blue screens while mining usually means there is a problem with cooling of your rig
178 2012-05-06 06:15:04 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: doesnt seem to be, changing the sleep significantly doesnt help
179 2012-05-06 06:15:30 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: add a bunch of prints so you can see the sequence its really taking.
180 2012-05-06 06:16:12 <BlueMatt> arg...I was hoping on focusing on rebasing and letting someone else find the problem there...
181 2012-05-06 06:16:13 <BlueMatt> oh well
182 2012-05-06 06:16:38 <jine> gmaxwell: Does the "walletversion" : 59900 matter?
183 2012-05-06 06:17:07 <jine> I was planning to go grap a new wallet.dat anyway so, cause of the size... taking to much space and ram, and it's growing pretty fast.
184 2012-05-06 06:17:13 <gmaxwell> jine: no, not really. You can tell it to upgrade it.. thats been made a manual process so that users retain the freedom to downgrade.
185 2012-05-06 06:17:24 SomeoneWeird is now known as s1w
186 2012-05-06 06:17:36 <jine> Ah, whats the diffrence between the two versions?
187 2012-05-06 06:17:57 <gmaxwell> the 0.6.0 version adds the support for compressed public keys, IIRC.
188 2012-05-06 06:18:30 <jine> I c, how do i upgrade?
189 2012-05-06 06:18:43 <jine> nvm
190 2012-05-06 06:18:47 <jine> found -upgradewallet
191 2012-05-06 06:20:26 <gmaxwell> Backing up first is recommended of course.
192 2012-05-06 06:20:33 <jine> ofc :)
193 2012-05-06 06:20:33 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
194 2012-05-06 06:20:53 <jine> Can i add it to bitcoin.conf, restart the client and then later remove the line?
195 2012-05-06 06:21:05 <jine> Or do i need to run it separaretly?
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199 2012-05-06 06:22:51 <jine> gmaxwell: ^
200 2012-05-06 06:23:12 <gmaxwell> It should work in the conf— sorry, was checking the code. Never tested that.
201 2012-05-06 06:23:43 <jine> Hah, i c :)
202 2012-05-06 06:23:51 Slix` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
203 2012-05-06 06:28:30 <jine> Fully upgraded, thanks :)
204 2012-05-06 06:29:20 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
205 2012-05-06 06:30:02 <jine> Also updated keypoolsize to having to take backup less often :)
206 2012-05-06 06:34:46 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: laanwj opened pull request 1209 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1209>
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222 2012-05-06 07:38:10 <paulo_> is there an exact date when SHA-3 gets chosen?
223 2012-05-06 07:39:47 <splatster> paulo_: I don't think so.
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292 2012-05-06 12:38:15 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened issue 1210 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1210>
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294 2012-05-06 12:39:33 <sipa> ;;later tell BlueMatt test_bitcoin in cblockstore seems to work here; shouldn't it?
295 2012-05-06 12:39:33 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
296 2012-05-06 12:40:11 <sipa> BlueMatt: and my irc client runs on my vps, so it's online when i'm not
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301 2012-05-06 18:26:24 * luke-jr pokes jgarzik to fix #1198 so he can start his client again :P
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304 2012-05-06 18:30:44 <nanotube> possibly bug report: before 0.6.1, when creating a new address with the 'new address' button, the address was created and focus was set on it. now with 0.6.1 it is not focused on after creation, and one needs to find it in the list. (which may be problematic if it has the same label as some others). anyone else see this behavior? anyone else agree that it is a bug?
305 2012-05-06 18:31:18 <luke-jr> nanotube: I've seen that for a month or so at least now, and it's been annoying. I didn't realize it was a regression.
306 2012-05-06 18:31:25 <luke-jr> 0.6.0 didn't have that issue?
307 2012-05-06 18:31:53 <nanotube> no, i only started seeing this behavior as of a few days ago, which iirc coincides with my upgrade to .1
308 2012-05-06 18:32:24 <luke-jr> hmm
309 2012-05-06 18:32:39 <nanotube> not 100% sure though. i could double check by starting the .0 client.... there's no backward-incompatibilities between .1 and .0 is there?
310 2012-05-06 18:32:45 <nanotube> s/is/are/g
311 2012-05-06 18:33:25 <gmaxwell> nanotube: no, you should be able to start 0.6.0.
312 2012-05-06 18:33:46 <nanotube> ok i'll give it a try then.
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315 2012-05-06 18:35:07 <nanotube> gmaxwell: luke-jr: confirmed, 0.6.0 properly sets focus.
316 2012-05-06 18:35:33 <luke-jr> k, bisecting..
317 2012-05-06 18:35:41 <nanotube> (this is on linux for the record, but y'all already know that :) )
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319 2012-05-06 18:42:58 <wumpus> probably introduced in 98e61758744ed34e8b7f59b37edb6d09b33d5517
320 2012-05-06 18:43:48 <wumpus> and yes, it's a bug, please file an issue
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325 2012-05-06 18:56:07 <luke-jr> 98e61758744ed34e8b7f59b37edb6d09b33d5517 is the first bad commit
326 2012-05-06 18:56:08 <luke-jr> yep
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334 2012-05-06 19:15:54 <gmaxwell>     "walletversion" : 10500,
335 2012-05-06 19:15:57 <gmaxwell> ^ wtf?
336 2012-05-06 19:16:01 Nicksasa has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
337 2012-05-06 19:16:41 <DiabloD3> ?
338 2012-05-06 19:16:55 <gmaxwell> log says
339 2012-05-06 19:16:56 <gmaxwell> 05/06/12 19:11:35 Loading wallet...
340 2012-05-06 19:16:56 <gmaxwell> 05/06/12 19:11:36 nFileVersion = 59900
341 2012-05-06 19:17:04 <gmaxwell> DiabloD3: thats a screwed up version.
342 2012-05-06 19:17:24 <DiabloD3> I didnt know wallets had versions
343 2012-05-06 19:17:38 <gmaxwell> Yes.
344 2012-05-06 19:19:26 guruvan has quit (Quit: I probably voided the warranty on this thing.....)
345 2012-05-06 19:19:28 <luke-jr> DiabloD3: that's why you can downgrade to 0.5 after running 0.6 only iff you started with 0.5
346 2012-05-06 19:20:27 <DiabloD3> can I make it upgrade a wallet?
347 2012-05-06 19:21:17 <gmaxwell> DiabloD3: yes.
348 2012-05-06 19:21:47 <DiabloD3> how
349 2012-05-06 19:21:57 <gmaxwell> Anyone have any ideas why I'd be getting 10500? from a 59900 wallet?
350 2012-05-06 19:32:16 graingert has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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353 2012-05-06 19:37:33 <gmaxwell> wallet.h:    FEATURE_BASE = 10500, // the earliest version new wallets supports (only useful for getinfo's clientversion output)
354 2012-05-06 19:38:12 <gmaxwell> I guess thats okay then.. kinda odd.
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364 2012-05-06 19:48:45 <nanotube> wumpus: ok i'll file
365 2012-05-06 19:48:52 <wumpus> I guess it's not needed
366 2012-05-06 19:49:00 <wumpus> already working on fix
367 2012-05-06 19:49:04 <nanotube> ok i won't then. :)
368 2012-05-06 19:49:09 <nanotube> thanks! :)
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375 2012-05-06 20:02:31 <amiller> has anyone seen this proposal, it's pretty much the same as what i'm working on https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/User:DiThi/MTUT
376 2012-05-06 20:04:19 <gmaxwell> amiller: you mean like this? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=21995.0
377 2012-05-06 20:05:04 paulo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
378 2012-05-06 20:05:45 <amiller> yeah that's exactly right.
379 2012-05-06 20:05:50 <amiller> so i've figured out how to do that
380 2012-05-06 20:06:17 <amiller> you should look at this paper Persistent Authenticated Dictionaries http://www.cs.brown.edu/cgc/stms/papers/isc2001.pdf
381 2012-05-06 20:06:27 <gmaxwell> Can you also produce efficient provable no-txn found results?
382 2012-05-06 20:06:41 barmstrong has joined
383 2012-05-06 20:06:42 <gmaxwell> The way that wikipage describs it can't do that.
384 2012-05-06 20:06:44 <amiller> yes you get non-membership verification with the same O(log N)
385 2012-05-06 20:06:52 <gmaxwell> (but I know it can be done)
386 2012-05-06 20:07:11 <gmaxwell> what I don't know how to do is make something that does non-membership secure against attack.
387 2012-05-06 20:07:37 <amiller> the trick is to used a balanced merkle tree
388 2012-05-06 20:07:40 <gmaxwell> Becuase the only way I see to do non-membership requrires txn to have a known connection point based on their hash. But then an attacker can make many txn that connect at the same point.
389 2012-05-06 20:07:44 <gmaxwell> To unbalance the tree.
390 2012-05-06 20:07:50 <sipa> gmaxwell: that nFileVersionis simply the last version that wrote to it, to correct bugs for example
391 2012-05-06 20:08:13 <amiller> this paper i linked describes self balancing merkle trees
392 2012-05-06 20:08:19 <sipa> gmaxwell: the number reported by walletversion is different
393 2012-05-06 20:08:19 <amiller> so the worst case verification time is still log n
394 2012-05-06 20:08:29 <amiller> you might also look at the code i'm playing with for this https://github.com/amiller/redblackmerkle/
395 2012-05-06 20:09:27 <gmaxwell> amiller: K. paper in my reading queue.
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398 2012-05-06 20:11:36 <gmaxwell> amiller: in any case, I think this sort of thing is absolutely essential for something like namecoin... and potentially of value for bitcoin but not as important.
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400 2012-05-06 20:13:26 <amiller> one thing missing from your proposal and from the wiki thing i suppose is that i would like to see the proof-of-work changed to being a proof-of-throughput for accessing this merkle tree
401 2012-05-06 20:15:20 <gmaxwell> Yea, and I don't think thats a grand idea, but I'm still open to being convinced.  (I think that proof that you've got it is great, proof of throughtput seems to me to be trading one kind of busywork for another— because the maximum amount of throughput you could possibly need for validation is necessairly low, otherwise the system loses decenteralization)
402 2012-05-06 20:17:08 <amiller> if all you do is include the merkle tree root in your blocks, you haven't proved you have access to the tree
403 2012-05-06 20:18:21 <gmaxwell> amiller: Yes, and?
404 2012-05-06 20:18:25 <amiller> but if you include the result of accumulating k random elements from the tree
405 2012-05-06 20:18:38 <amiller> then someone can verify your work in O(k * log N)
406 2012-05-06 20:19:13 <amiller> but you would have had to access the tree on average O(T) times
407 2012-05-06 20:20:04 <gmaxwell> I'm not sure what you're telling me that I didn't know. I think proof of access is fine. I don't think it's a good thing to derive the difficulty of the block from.
408 2012-05-06 20:22:25 <gmaxwell> E.g. you can make a very cheap proof of access, e.g. hash of the second to last block is your random seed for your N lookups.  N could be as small as 1.  You could also include a proof based on the validation you had to do for the prior block— since you had to do that work anyways if you're not cheating.
409 2012-05-06 20:23:39 <gmaxwell> Thats enough to remove the incentive to be forgetful, but without the gratitious change in the proof of work type.
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411 2012-05-06 20:23:52 <amiller> let me use k for what you're calling N
412 2012-05-06 20:24:17 <amiller> if you only have to access k=1 value, then you could cheat at the work by only storing one value
413 2012-05-06 20:24:28 <amiller> and you keep generating random numbers until that's the lookup you have to do
414 2012-05-06 20:24:31 <gmaxwell> You don't control what value you have to access.
415 2012-05-06 20:24:40 <gmaxwell> Negatory ghostrider.
416 2012-05-06 20:25:04 <amiller> okay so it doesn't depend on your nonce, you don't have to do a lookup for each work?
417 2012-05-06 20:25:14 <gmaxwell> Right.
418 2012-05-06 20:25:27 <amiller> then only one person needs to have that data and they can broadcast
419 2012-05-06 20:25:33 <amiller> it doesn't really improve decentralization at all
420 2012-05-06 20:25:49 <gmaxwell> There is no reason to do lookups per each work. The total lookup throughput _must_ be bounded if the system is to be decenteralized.
421 2012-05-06 20:26:21 <gmaxwell> amiller: proving people have lots of lookup throughput doesn't help decenteralzation either.
422 2012-05-06 20:27:21 <gmaxwell> I'm late for lunch, but we should talk about this later. I'd like one of us to convince the other on this.
423 2012-05-06 20:27:30 <amiller> ok, i'll be around
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429 2012-05-06 20:33:10 <Diapolo> hi all
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431 2012-05-06 20:44:39 <Diapolo> Why is Monospace used or defined as "address" font?
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434 2012-05-06 20:49:04 <wumpus> because it is consistent and makes addresses all the same width
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446 2012-05-06 21:11:34 <Diapolo> wumpus: But is intended only for addresses?
447 2012-05-06 21:11:48 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
448 2012-05-06 21:13:25 <wumpus> yes
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450 2012-05-06 21:16:24 <wumpus> it's basically so that they line up in the address book (note that addresses look ugly in any font, so it doesn't matter so much)
451 2012-05-06 21:16:48 <gmaxwell> I think monospace makes them look nicer.
452 2012-05-06 21:16:52 <wumpus> better to not show them at all, where that's possible
453 2012-05-06 21:16:53 <wumpus> yes
454 2012-05-06 21:17:01 <wumpus> slightly :)
455 2012-05-06 21:18:37 <gmaxwell> hm. I wonder if some letter pairs look nicer, and if someone could define finite state machine for an encoding that produces nicer looking mixtures.
456 2012-05-06 21:19:51 <Diapolo> wumpus: someone used Monospace on the amount label, I was not sure if it was ok to remove it but now I'm convinced :D.
457 2012-05-06 21:20:54 <ali1234> monospace technically isn't a font, it's a font family that just means "any available monospace font"
458 2012-05-06 21:21:16 <Diapolo> thanks for clarification :)
459 2012-05-06 21:21:17 <ali1234> assuming you are talking about the Qt UI anyway, which uses (in theory) CSS properties
460 2012-05-06 21:21:27 <wumpus> that would be like creating better looking hex memory addresses
461 2012-05-06 21:21:30 <ali1234> not that i've looked at the code but i can only guess this is what you are refering to
462 2012-05-06 21:21:42 <Diapolo> you are right ali
463 2012-05-06 21:21:51 <gmaxwell> ali1234: generally addresses look better in any monospace face than any non-monospace face.
464 2012-05-06 21:22:01 <wumpus> yes it's a family, not a specific one
465 2012-05-06 21:22:04 <gmaxwell> (if for no other reason then they line up)
466 2012-05-06 21:22:19 <gmaxwell> I'm fond of Inconsolata.
467 2012-05-06 21:23:51 <ali1234> when it comes to monospace i prefer the output of the saa5243
468 2012-05-06 21:24:14 <Diapolo> Should monospace also be used in the transactionlist on the main tab and the transactiontable?
469 2012-05-06 21:25:09 <wumpus> ideally, yes, but only when it's not too much complexity to do so
470 2012-05-06 21:25:45 <Diapolo> wumpus: These are things I can do and don't take too much time the real big GUI changes are your part currently ^^.
471 2012-05-06 21:25:59 <wumpus> not all text outputs allow mixing different fonts, if you need to go as far as subclassing a renderer, don't bother
472 2012-05-06 21:27:31 <Diapolo> will look into it tomorrow, too late today :)
473 2012-05-06 21:27:56 <wumpus> for example in the transaction table it shows label (address). You can only have one font per cell, and making them all monospace looks weird
474 2012-05-06 21:29:04 <Diapolo> wumpus: that makes sense sure
475 2012-05-06 21:29:31 <gmaxwell> It might look nicer if all addresses displayed in the interface were display between brackets. e.g. [17Q5ZBy5N9ke2dU1X7gGGT2vWfKJEm3gW4]
476 2012-05-06 21:30:23 <wumpus> yea you could use brackets instead of parentheses
477 2012-05-06 21:30:53 <wumpus> though I don't think you should put brackets around the addresses in the address book
478 2012-05-06 21:30:56 <Diapolo> btw. is anyone here that can build a Windows executable that I can redistribute to test my experimental blockchain-writing code? Seems I'm not able to meet BlueMatt in here anymore.
479 2012-05-06 21:31:05 <sipa> Diapolo: i can
480 2012-05-06 21:31:10 <sipa> (gitian)
481 2012-05-06 21:31:14 <ali1234> couldn't you do something with columns? and then hide the addresses unless the user decides to show that column?
482 2012-05-06 21:31:33 <sipa> Diapolo: just point me to a commit
483 2012-05-06 21:31:37 <Diapolo> sipa: cool I made some progress https://github.com/Diapolo/bitcoin/tree/InitBlockDL-exp
484 2012-05-06 21:31:42 <wumpus> ali1234: that's already the case
485 2012-05-06 21:32:04 <wumpus> the address is hidden *unless* it has an empty or no label
486 2012-05-06 21:32:17 <Diapolo> sipa: I'm sure this should be not that hard for Linux-style OSes, too ... but I had no time to investigate the API calls
487 2012-05-06 21:32:18 <ali1234> if it's on a different column you should be able to set the font for only that column (again in theory)
488 2012-05-06 21:32:30 <wumpus> which is why it's not really an issue for 'good' users, which label all addresses they use for transactions
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492 2012-05-06 21:33:04 <ali1234> i never label anything :)
493 2012-05-06 21:33:08 <Diapolo> wumpus: perhaps merge my labeling fix, I heard about a possible 0.6.2 and this fixes a medium issue
494 2012-05-06 21:33:23 <ali1234> but then again i don't use the GUI anyway
495 2012-05-06 21:33:32 <Diapolo> I only use the GUI ^^.
496 2012-05-06 21:33:36 <sipa> Diapolo: still no per-file pointers?
497 2012-05-06 21:33:56 <sipa> Diapolo: ah, i see
498 2012-05-06 21:33:58 <wumpus> most people label addresses because it's the only way to currently distinguish transactions/recipients
499 2012-05-06 21:33:59 <sipa> you just append anyway
500 2012-05-06 21:34:01 <sipa> Diapolo: nevermind
501 2012-05-06 21:34:03 <gmaxwell> sipa: I have got someone with a stuck chain who is willing to test your fixed fix, BTW.
502 2012-05-06 21:34:33 <gmaxwell> He's on 0.6.1 release and still stuck, so it should be a worthwhile test case.
503 2012-05-06 21:34:38 <Diapolo> sipa: I tried to do the things you suggested ^^ no globals, use the tx-db for settings
504 2012-05-06 21:35:08 <wumpus> Diapolo: right, I really already started merging for 0.7.0 and then it was decided to do 0.6.2
505 2012-05-06 21:35:18 <wumpus> (it's the same every time...)
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507 2012-05-06 21:36:07 <Diapolo> wumpus: Are there meetings where such things are decided, sometimes it seems a bit random to me as Newb ^^.
508 2012-05-06 21:36:38 <sipa> gmaxwell: i can do a gitian build, if necessary?
509 2012-05-06 21:36:48 <wumpus> it would make more sense to have two branches, so we can start merging for 0.7.0 even while 0.6.x is still being maintained
510 2012-05-06 21:37:11 <luke-jr> wumpus: we have 4 branches now, I can add a 0.6.x branch easily
511 2012-05-06 21:37:29 <luke-jr> (in fact, I have one, just not pushed yet)
512 2012-05-06 21:37:37 <wumpus> I mean in the official repository... I know you maintain the older versions
513 2012-05-06 21:37:45 <wumpus> which makes sense
514 2012-05-06 21:37:49 <Diapolo> sipa: while you are at it can you do an experimental Windows exe for me :)? With that branch ...
515 2012-05-06 21:37:54 <sipa> Diapolo: sure
516 2012-05-06 21:38:04 <gmaxwell> That is not equivalent. We don't have a large enough testing base to justify dilluting it with a lot of compeating heads.
517 2012-05-06 21:38:13 <luke-jr> wumpus: the stable repository is just as official as master on github
518 2012-05-06 21:38:16 <wumpus> I don't want 'lots' of competing heads
519 2012-05-06 21:38:26 <wumpus> just the old and new one
520 2012-05-06 21:38:28 <Diapolo> sipa: great :) hope it compiles ^^ my local setup is sometimes a little different to official Gitian envs
521 2012-05-06 21:38:58 <gmaxwell> sipa: If you want to just go ahead and do all platform builds with your chain fix, I suppose that would be useful.
522 2012-05-06 21:39:11 <sipa> gmaxwell: ok
523 2012-05-06 21:39:25 <Diapolo> wumpus: I agree as it's sometimes hard to see good pulls that don't get into the master and can be tested. I don't want to setup remotes to every of your repos ^^.
524 2012-05-06 21:39:28 <sipa> Diapolo: i'll first do the stuck chain fix builds, then yours
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526 2012-05-06 21:39:59 <wumpus> Diapolo: agreed... so we end up with lots of conflicting pull requests, which we already know we want to merge
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528 2012-05-06 21:40:18 * luke-jr notes the 'next' branch does still exist as a base for next-test, which could be pulled into master when the window opens for real
529 2012-05-06 21:40:40 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: I try to be pretty agressive at pulling the obviously minor stuff quickly.
530 2012-05-06 21:40:42 <luke-jr> ('next' is just pullreqs with core ACKs)
531 2012-05-06 21:41:20 <Diapolo> sipa: no hurry, I guess I'm off in a few minutes, but can you post the link here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/776 or perhaps somewhere I can find it ^^
532 2012-05-06 21:41:54 <luke-jr> anyhow, I guess my key point is that every possible branch already exists, and any new one sounds like trying to reinvent something that's already there
533 2012-05-06 21:42:17 <Diapolo> gmaxwell: that was no offence to anyone, I just produce small pulls quite often for example ^^ and I would really like to test the RPC console or IPV6 :)
534 2012-05-06 21:42:37 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: you know you can get any pull request as a patch and git am it easily, right?
535 2012-05-06 21:42:41 <wumpus> luke-jr: right, but it'd be useful if it existed in one repository on github, so coordination is easier
536 2012-05-06 21:42:49 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: e.g. wget https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1075.patch
537 2012-05-06 21:43:13 <gmaxwell> Thats how I test every pull before I pull it. Perhaps there is some more githubish way, but I think its really easy.
538 2012-05-06 21:43:28 <Diapolo> gmaxwell: I have heard of wget ... but never used this.
539 2012-05-06 21:43:43 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: wget is just a command to save a url to a file.
540 2012-05-06 21:43:56 <sipa> Diapolo: wget is just a program for downloading a file; the wget is not important, it's the url
541 2012-05-06 21:43:58 <luke-jr> wumpus: does GitHub let you have different commit-access per branch?
542 2012-05-06 21:44:08 <luke-jr> curl > wget
543 2012-05-06 21:44:11 <sipa> wumpus: not afaik
544 2012-05-06 21:44:16 <wumpus> I generally just do   git remote add, git fetch, git checkout <user>/<branch>
545 2012-05-06 21:44:16 <sipa> eh, luke-jr
546 2012-05-06 21:44:19 <Diapolo> I'm that lazy Windows Guy who hates command prompts ^^.
547 2012-05-06 21:44:25 <wumpus> no, it doesn't
548 2012-05-06 21:44:26 <luke-jr> Diapolo: tried next-test?
549 2012-05-06 21:44:39 <gmaxwell> e.g. you can wget https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1075.patch ; git am 1075.patch ; make .. ; and when you're done git reset --hard origin
550 2012-05-06 21:44:49 kish is now known as godblesswallstre
551 2012-05-06 21:44:54 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: ah well you can also use your browser to save that url. :)
552 2012-05-06 21:45:11 <luke-jr> wumpus: well, then moving 'next' to that repo implies either A) adding me as a pusher to it, or B) someone else takes the job of maintaining it ;)
553 2012-05-06 21:45:27 <Diapolo> ^^ I will have to look into all this, I'm the growing and learning one here ;).
554 2012-05-06 21:45:35 <luke-jr> wumpus: I presume (A) would only happen independent of this conversation, so is someone volunteering for (B)?
555 2012-05-06 21:45:53 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: you also create a lot of GUI patches which I don't, as a rule, pull— unless they're very obviously okay.
556 2012-05-06 21:45:58 <luke-jr> Diapolo: https://bitcointalk.org/\?topic=79884.0
557 2012-05-06 21:46:00 <luke-jr> Diapolo: https://bitcointalk.org/?topic=79884.0
558 2012-05-06 21:46:09 copumpkin has joined
559 2012-05-06 21:46:25 <Diapolo> luke-jr: I was not sure if that builds are trustworthy or could perhaps be modified to do bad things ...
560 2012-05-06 21:46:26 <sipa> indeed, i sometimes comment on GUI patches, but leave the pulling mostly to wumpus
561 2012-05-06 21:46:50 <gmaxwell> One thing that would probably be helpful is having a jenkins setup that drives gitian builds of _everything_ ... I'd be glad to do this, and my jenkins kungfu is reasonable, but I can't seem to get gitian working.
562 2012-05-06 21:46:54 <luke-jr> Diapolo: well, that depends on if you trust me. the branches also exist in my git repo, if you wanted to verify the builds yourself
563 2012-05-06 21:47:21 <sipa> gmaxwell: never had a problem with gitian (except some learning curve)
564 2012-05-06 21:47:25 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: that'd be neat
565 2012-05-06 21:47:50 <sipa> gmaxwell: but you don't run ubuntu, i suppose?
566 2012-05-06 21:47:51 <gmaxwell> sipa: I don't run ubuntu normally so I have it running in a VM.
567 2012-05-06 21:48:18 <gmaxwell> and the machine I want to run it in can't do the fast nested kvm, so I'm trying to get the LXC mode working.
568 2012-05-06 21:48:26 <Diapolo> gmaxwell: "as a rule, pull— unless they're very obviously okay." I don't get what you mean, sorry ... can you explain?
569 2012-05-06 21:48:27 <wumpus> the only annoying thing about gitian is that I can't run it together with virtualbox
570 2012-05-06 21:48:29 <gmaxwell> (I want to run it on my 32 core boxes)
571 2012-05-06 21:49:06 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: I mean your GUI patches take longer to get pulled because mostly only wumpus pulls them.  I only pull gui related patches if they're obviously correct text changes or the like.
572 2012-05-06 21:49:26 <Diapolo> gmaxwell: now it's clear
573 2012-05-06 21:49:35 <gmaxwell> (and likewise for sipa)
574 2012-05-06 21:49:54 godblesswallstre is now known as kish
575 2012-05-06 21:50:18 * luke-jr wonders if a normal chroot could handle gitian building <.<
576 2012-05-06 21:50:26 <Diapolo> luke-jr: I guess I should try your next-test to play around with pulls, so I don't need to rely on merging them into local repos and compiling them for now.
577 2012-05-06 21:50:30 <luke-jr> but I guess you'd want the LXC network jails for this kind of thing
578 2012-05-06 21:50:45 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: the gitian stuff is kind of horiffic. It requires sudoing.
579 2012-05-06 21:51:15 <Diapolo> damn, time is running to fast ...
580 2012-05-06 21:51:18 <gmaxwell> I looked into trying to get it running on a fedora host with just the ubuntu vms and gave up pretty quickly.
581 2012-05-06 21:51:44 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: sipa: What version of ubuntu is your gitian host systems?
582 2012-05-06 21:52:36 <gmaxwell> Mine is ubuntu-10.04.4-server-amd64.iso which is perhaps why I'm having problems where no one else is.
583 2012-05-06 21:53:00 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: how can you tell?
584 2012-05-06 21:53:49 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
585 2012-05-06 21:55:11 <Diapolo> I have to say good night. sipa: It's very well okay if you do my build tomorrow, if you are out of time.
586 2012-05-06 21:56:32 Diapolo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
587 2012-05-06 21:57:05 <sipa> gmaxwell: gitian requires sudo?
588 2012-05-06 21:57:22 <luke-jr> sipa: yes
589 2012-05-06 21:58:04 <sipa> In file included from src/qt/messagepage.cpp:16:
590 2012-05-06 21:58:05 <sipa> build/ui_messagepage.h: In member function ‘void Ui_MessagePage::retranslateUi(QWidget*)’:
591 2012-05-06 21:58:07 <sipa> build/ui_messagepage.h:165: error: ‘class QLineEdit’ has no member named ‘setPlaceholderText’
592 2012-05-06 21:58:48 weex has quit (Quit: leaving)
593 2012-05-06 21:58:55 <ali1234> introduced in Qt 4.7
594 2012-05-06 21:59:01 <luke-jr> are we building Win32 with an old Qt? :/
595 2012-05-06 21:59:37 <wumpus> sipa: huh, that's in the generated code?
596 2012-05-06 22:00:17 <sipa> wumpus: that's the gitian linux build
597 2012-05-06 22:00:58 TD has joined
598 2012-05-06 22:01:36 <wumpus> yes but that means uic generates code that doesn't compile with the same qt version it is packaged with... darn
599 2012-05-06 22:02:10 <sipa> this is problematic, as i can't do a gitian build anymore :)
600 2012-05-06 22:02:19 weex has joined
601 2012-05-06 22:02:19 weex has quit (Changing host)
602 2012-05-06 22:02:19 weex has joined
603 2012-05-06 22:03:02 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
604 2012-05-06 22:04:56 <luke-jr> I need a testnet address please
605 2012-05-06 22:05:06 sirk390 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
606 2012-05-06 22:06:36 <wumpus> miW96tTsuBt6fMoxfBH8JSfuCMfxy5SZv2
607 2012-05-06 22:07:43 <luke-jr> ty
608 2012-05-06 22:07:53 <luke-jr> [21:59:21] <wumpus> yes but that means uic generates code that doesn't compile with the same qt version it is packaged with… darn <-- this is why I asked before it was merged -.-
609 2012-05-06 22:08:09 <wumpus> I didn't think qt would be that stupid
610 2012-05-06 22:08:33 <wumpus> anyway, I'm moving it back to the code now
611 2012-05-06 22:09:04 <gmaxwell> darn users!
612 2012-05-06 22:09:21 <gmaxwell> My stuck chain test subject applied the proper patch— but also deleted his chain at the same time.
613 2012-05-06 22:09:34 <sipa> haha
614 2012-05-06 22:12:28 <wumpus> luke-jr: and I was right on the xml validation! :p
615 2012-05-06 22:13:40 <luke-jr> I don't suppose anyone is mining testnet right now?
616 2012-05-06 22:14:04 <wumpus> I never use the real testnet, just the one in a box
617 2012-05-06 22:14:23 <gmaxwell> Testnet is mostly broken now.
618 2012-05-06 22:14:39 <sipa> we really need to reset it for 0.7.0
619 2012-05-06 22:15:07 vision_ has joined
620 2012-05-06 22:17:07 <vision_> I had an idea yesterday to make transactions easy and fast in normal life, but i don't have any idea of programming so i would just like to share and if you see interesting, just take the idea and make it possible...
621 2012-05-06 22:17:30 <luke-jr> vision_: what can be faster than the instantaneous we have right now?
622 2012-05-06 22:17:40 <sipa> luke-jr: seems you need a better monitor
623 2012-05-06 22:17:41 <vision_> yes
624 2012-05-06 22:17:45 <luke-jr> sipa: ?
625 2012-05-06 22:17:55 <vision_> giving a coin would be faster
626 2012-05-06 22:17:57 <sipa> luke-jr: i do see alternating colors in your screenshot
627 2012-05-06 22:17:57 <vision_> :)
628 2012-05-06 22:18:00 <vision_> let me explain
629 2012-05-06 22:18:09 <vision_> I was a bartender in a disco
630 2012-05-06 22:18:09 <sipa> luke-jr: though only softly
631 2012-05-06 22:19:03 <vision_> and i was thinking that bitcoin would never work in a bar or a disco because the amount of time you need to set-up or do the transfer is to high
632 2012-05-06 22:19:21 <vision_> so in that time the bartender is NOT serving like 10 drinks
633 2012-05-06 22:19:26 <luke-jr> sipa: #F8F7F6 vs #FFFFFF isn't visible :p
634 2012-05-06 22:19:33 <vision_> which makes the bar lose money
635 2012-05-06 22:19:39 <vision_> well whatever
636 2012-05-06 22:19:50 <vision_> i thought it would be great this system
637 2012-05-06 22:19:53 <luke-jr> vision_: nonsense, bartender shows a QR Code, you scan, done
638 2012-05-06 22:19:53 <sipa> vision_: it could be made to work in seconds (NFC, for example)
639 2012-05-06 22:20:02 <sipa> or QR, for now
640 2012-05-06 22:20:03 <vision_> what is NFC?
641 2012-05-06 22:20:08 <sipa> near-field communication
642 2012-05-06 22:20:17 <wumpus> the bitcoin android app supports that, at least
643 2012-05-06 22:20:20 <vision_> which is like a RDIF work
644 2012-05-06 22:20:28 <vision_> isn't it?
645 2012-05-06 22:20:39 <vision_> wumpus really?
646 2012-05-06 22:20:44 <sipa> yes
647 2012-05-06 22:20:45 <vision_> how does it work?
648 2012-05-06 22:21:02 <sipa> shop generates a bitcoin url with address and amount in a qr code
649 2012-05-06 22:21:06 <sipa> *uri
650 2012-05-06 22:21:17 <sipa> you scan it with your phone that has a bitcoin app
651 2012-05-06 22:21:27 <sipa> asks you whether you want to pay
652 2012-05-06 22:21:40 <sipa> and then creates/sends the transaction
653 2012-05-06 22:21:55 <vision_> i think my system is better
654 2012-05-06 22:22:00 <sipa> which is?
655 2012-05-06 22:22:20 <vision_> people should need to buy a RDIF card of the system
656 2012-05-06 22:22:34 tower has quit (Disconnected by services)
657 2012-05-06 22:22:36 <wumpus> sipa: latest commit should fix the gitian build problem
658 2012-05-06 22:22:36 <sipa> that can work, but that's not bitcoin anymore
659 2012-05-06 22:22:39 <vision_> this card would have a serial number on it (or a QR that you would have to scan)
660 2012-05-06 22:22:47 <sipa> that's a payment processing system on top of it
661 2012-05-06 22:22:47 tower has joined
662 2012-05-06 22:22:50 <vision_> let me just finish
663 2012-05-06 22:22:59 <sipa> ok!
664 2012-05-06 22:23:01 <vision_> :)
665 2012-05-06 22:23:03 <vision_> ok
666 2012-05-06 22:23:13 <vision_> because i don't like the middleman idea
667 2012-05-06 22:23:23 <luke-jr> can someone send me TNBTC? mjovDSJv8gCJ8fSz12xEH7LSuT278FXLJh
668 2012-05-06 22:23:41 <vision_> it is true that you would have to build a special app which would be a kind of wallet
669 2012-05-06 22:23:41 toffoo has joined
670 2012-05-06 22:23:55 <vision_> then you would setup this wallet with the serial number of the card
671 2012-05-06 22:23:59 <vision_> and 4 number digit
672 2012-05-06 22:24:25 <vision_> (if someone tryes 3 number it would block the number and then you should change in your cellphone)
673 2012-05-06 22:24:54 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
674 2012-05-06 22:25:08 <sipa> and the actual wallet is on your cell phone?
675 2012-05-06 22:25:11 <vision_> in the bar side: a special rdif scanner shows the amount of money you have to pay, if you agree you put your card next to the scanner and put the 4 digit
676 2012-05-06 22:25:35 <luke-jr> cool. I'm going to make my rdif scanner show 5 BTC then charge 50 BTC
677 2012-05-06 22:25:55 <sipa> what's the difference with holding your cell phone next to the scanner, and typing the digits on your cell phone?
678 2012-05-06 22:26:03 <ali1234> that's ok cos i'm going to make a rdif wrier that puts 1,000,000 btc on my card
679 2012-05-06 22:26:11 <wumpus> luke-jr: just make it charge TBC, no one will understand anyway :)
680 2012-05-06 22:26:17 <luke-jr> wumpus: TBC are smaller
681 2012-05-06 22:26:19 <vision_> sipa if the cellphone holds a rdif nothing at all
682 2012-05-06 22:26:24 <wumpus> darn
683 2012-05-06 22:26:44 <sipa> vision_: or a QR code scanner?
684 2012-05-06 22:26:47 <luke-jr> vision_: I like the QR Code system that works easier with current phones
685 2012-05-06 22:26:54 <vision_> but i have a galaxy s
686 2012-05-06 22:27:01 <vision_> and the qr scanning is slowww
687 2012-05-06 22:27:13 <sipa> that will certainly improve
688 2012-05-06 22:27:20 <sipa> or be replaced by other technology
689 2012-05-06 22:27:32 <sipa> i'm just saying there is no fundamental difference with your idea
690 2012-05-06 22:27:36 <vision_> sipa think that when i was a bartender i used to put an average of 98 drinks per hour
691 2012-05-06 22:27:36 <luke-jr> vision_: at least it works. bet that galaxy s doesn't work with your idea ta tall :p
692 2012-05-06 22:27:42 <luke-jr> at all*
693 2012-05-06 22:27:57 <vision_> luke it would
694 2012-05-06 22:28:00 <sipa> except all the hardware is under your control, and not the merchant
695 2012-05-06 22:28:11 <sipa> vision_: where is the wallet stored in your idea?
696 2012-05-06 22:28:26 <vision_> in the cell
697 2012-05-06 22:28:34 <vision_> (or other computer around the world)
698 2012-05-06 22:28:42 <sipa> how does the cardreader communicate with it?
699 2012-05-06 22:28:48 <sipa> internet?
700 2012-05-06 22:28:51 <vision_> yes
701 2012-05-06 22:28:59 <riush> luke-jr: there.. do we need another testnet faucet? ;)
702 2012-05-06 22:29:06 <luke-jr> riush: maybe, ty
703 2012-05-06 22:29:32 <sipa> vision_: so, if i scan your rfid, and remember its id, and the pin you typed, i can withdraw any amount from your wallet?
704 2012-05-06 22:30:12 <vision_> and if you copy my visa card and remember the pin i typed?
705 2012-05-06 22:30:40 <ali1234> then the nasty men from VISA show up at yor place of business with wrenches
706 2012-05-06 22:31:01 <vision_> you could make a lock in the cell aplication
707 2012-05-06 22:31:03 <vision_> for example
708 2012-05-06 22:31:52 paul0 has quit (Quit: paul0)
709 2012-05-06 22:32:01 <vision_> you don't like the idea, isn't it?
710 2012-05-06 22:32:38 <BlueMatt> sipa: wait, so why cant we send messages while holding cs_vNodes?
711 2012-05-06 22:33:00 <BlueMatt> sipa: and yea, found the mistake in the cblockstore tweaks of the testsuite
712 2012-05-06 22:33:38 <BlueMatt> also, its depressing when you find simple bugs in libc trying to test bitcoin...
713 2012-05-06 22:33:57 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: What libc bug did you find?
714 2012-05-06 22:34:13 <BlueMatt> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=671789
715 2012-05-06 22:34:17 <gmaxwell> I don't know if I've ever found a libc bug before. I've found libm bugs, however.
716 2012-05-06 22:34:51 <BlueMatt> getaddrinfo returns different results looking up "127.0.0.1" and "localhost" if you are/arent connected to the internet
717 2012-05-06 22:34:56 <gmaxwell> (crap like exp() returns wrong results or takes 100000x longer for some inputs)
718 2012-05-06 22:35:08 <BlueMatt> ewwww
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728 2012-05-06 22:52:49 <pgibson> I'm not sure how to configure my build to not use miniupnpc, would it hurt to just remove the lines that include it from net.cpp?
729 2012-05-06 22:53:02 <BlueMatt> build with USE_UPNP=
730 2012-05-06 22:53:16 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
731 2012-05-06 22:53:30 <pgibson> awesome!
732 2012-05-06 22:53:42 <sipa> BlueMatt: because you don't need vnodes while processing messages
733 2012-05-06 22:53:46 Lyspooner has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
734 2012-05-06 22:53:57 <sipa> BlueMatt: so vnodes is locked lower
735 2012-05-06 22:54:08 <BlueMatt> well, isnt PushMessage essentially just a callback?
736 2012-05-06 22:54:14 <BlueMatt> oh, it is?
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740 2012-05-06 22:56:16 <luke-jr> for qmake, you need USE_UPNP=-
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753 2012-05-06 23:14:53 XMPPwocky has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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760 2012-05-06 23:26:28 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: https://launchpad.net/~bitcoin/+archive/bitcoin  < can you update these for 0.6.1?
761 2012-05-06 23:26:40 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
762 2012-05-06 23:26:56 guruvan has quit (Quit: I probably voided the warranty on this thing.....)
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766 2012-05-06 23:30:29 guruvan has joined
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768 2012-05-06 23:31:25 <sipa> hello gavin
769 2012-05-06 23:31:34 <gavinandresen> hey sipa
770 2012-05-06 23:31:56 <sipa> are we going for a 0.6.2 now, or 0.7.0?
771 2012-05-06 23:31:58 elkingrey has joined
772 2012-05-06 23:32:12 <gavinandresen> I'd like to get the addrman fix in ASAP
773 2012-05-06 23:32:24 paulo_ has joined
774 2012-05-06 23:32:30 <luke-jr> it's in I think
775 2012-05-06 23:32:34 <gavinandresen> ... so a quick 0.6.2 that is 0.6.1 plus addrman cherry-picked is what I think we should do
776 2012-05-06 23:32:47 <luke-jr> the problem now is, so are some other things that invalidate all the translations…
777 2012-05-06 23:32:59 <gavinandresen> that's why I say cherry-picked
778 2012-05-06 23:33:07 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: OK, want me to prepare that then?
779 2012-05-06 23:33:18 <luke-jr> also, what about that other fix?
780 2012-05-06 23:33:28 <sipa> gmaxwell had someone to test the unstuck fix, but it seemed to have removed his block db
781 2012-05-06 23:33:42 <luke-jr> wtf
782 2012-05-06 23:33:45 <gavinandresen> how risk is the unstuck fix?
783 2012-05-06 23:33:49 <gavinandresen> risky
784 2012-05-06 23:34:34 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: ::shrugs:: users!
785 2012-05-06 23:34:37 Maged has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643])
786 2012-05-06 23:35:27 <sipa> risky: worst case it doesn't work
787 2012-05-06 23:35:29 <gavinandresen> ... or to ask another way:  are we sure the unstuck fix won't do something nasty like create an infinite request-block loop or something?
788 2012-05-06 23:36:17 <sipa> hmk
789 2012-05-06 23:36:25 <gmaxwell> I don't think the unstuck fix is risky all that risky but it should get some testing— actually the addrman addition of a bunch of assertions is actually somewhat risky (may convert some silent bugs to hard crashes). I'd really like to see both get a couple days testing at least.
790 2012-05-06 23:36:41 <gavinandresen> assertions are compiled out unless -DDEBUG, aren't they?
791 2012-05-06 23:36:44 paraipan has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
792 2012-05-06 23:37:35 guruvan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
793 2012-05-06 23:37:52 <sipa> no, compiled in unless -DNDEBUG
794 2012-05-06 23:38:14 <gavinandresen> right...  that's exactly the kind of thing I'm really good at forgetting....
795 2012-05-06 23:38:24 SphericalCow has quit (Quit: Leaving)
796 2012-05-06 23:38:48 <sipa> 0.6.0rc4 failed on an assert failure
797 2012-05-06 23:38:51 <gmaxwell> For the future perhaps we could have some kind of soft assert that kicks nodes into safe mode and logs like crazy— to use for newly introduced assertions.
798 2012-05-06 23:38:53 <sipa> iirc
799 2012-05-06 23:39:05 <luke-jr> http://codepad.org/6iCEju8s <-- proposed commits to cherry-pick into 0.6.2
800 2012-05-06 23:39:14 <luke-jr> (note, I omitted the assert additions)
801 2012-05-06 23:39:30 guruvan has joined
802 2012-05-06 23:39:41 <gmaxwell> (perhaps also drops the walletpassphrase out of memory too)
803 2012-05-06 23:40:50 <gmaxwell> I'm happy about the additional asserts— I'm just a little concerned that in the process of squashing a very rare bug, we'll introduce a less rare crash on an overeager assert.
804 2012-05-06 23:41:14 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: is there a risk to omitting the asserts?
805 2012-05-06 23:41:24 <DiabloD3> ha ha you said asshurts
806 2012-05-06 23:41:24 <gmaxwell> Though on the subject of very rare, I think the addrman bug is a bit of a timebomb: once nodes have made enough outbound connects they'll hit it much more often.
807 2012-05-06 23:41:51 <gavinandresen> yes, that's why I want it fixed ASAP
808 2012-05-06 23:41:54 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: without them there may be other bugs that silently corrupt memory which will leave nodes still running.
809 2012-05-06 23:42:49 <DiabloD3> gmaxwell: whats that bug do?
810 2012-05-06 23:42:56 <gmaxwell> DiabloD3: what bug?
811 2012-05-06 23:43:11 <DiabloD3> addrman bug
812 2012-05-06 23:43:56 <gmaxwell> Causes mostly boring memory corruption and usually a crash+addr.dat corruption to nodes which have made many successful outbound connections.
813 2012-05-06 23:44:00 <XMPPwocky> addrman, addrman, does whatever an addrman does
814 2012-05-06 23:44:04 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: pulling non-critical bugfixes into 0.6.2 would be a mistake, IMHO.
815 2012-05-06 23:44:42 <gavinandresen> So: how critical is the unstuck fix?  Doesn't seem to be affecting many people, is there any reason to believe that problem will get worse?
816 2012-05-06 23:44:49 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: does d41f22c count as critical? I'm not sure what effects it might have
817 2012-05-06 23:45:38 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: TheBlueMatt opened issue 1213 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1213>
818 2012-05-06 23:46:35 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yea, working on it...
819 2012-05-06 23:46:38 <luke-jr> ie, what happens if printf gets more arguments than it expects?
820 2012-05-06 23:47:21 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: what is d41f22c?  (and what's the git command to tell me...)
821 2012-05-06 23:47:40 <BlueMatt> git checkout d...; git log
822 2012-05-06 23:47:58 <luke-jr> 82e6b92  Bugfix: %-12I64d is not valid and causes the parameter to be skipped, use %12"PRI64d" instead
823 2012-05-06 23:48:05 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: git show 82e6b92
824 2012-05-06 23:48:13 <luke-jr> (sorry, d41f22c was the backport of it)
825 2012-05-06 23:48:28 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: that code doesn't get executed for most userrs though IIRC, it requires an argument.
826 2012-05-06 23:48:38 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: right, it requires 2 arguments
827 2012-05-06 23:48:41 <luke-jr> -debug -printpriorities
828 2012-05-06 23:49:09 <luke-jr> but if enabled, I'm not familiar with the side effects of passing extra arguments to printf
829 2012-05-06 23:49:14 <gmaxwell> I expect the consequence is just printing random memory— meaning no harm to occasional crashes, plus minor information leaks into the log. Given that it needs -debug -printpriorities  I'm not worried.
830 2012-05-06 23:49:41 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: well, this is *extra* arguments, not too few
831 2012-05-06 23:49:42 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: it's not just extra, it shifts the arguments down one too, IIRC.
832 2012-05-06 23:49:42 <luke-jr> ok
833 2012-05-06 23:49:52 <gmaxwell> extra to vararg is itself completely safe.
834 2012-05-06 23:49:53 <luke-jr> how about bd1aabe  Bugfix: store source address in addrman ?
835 2012-05-06 23:50:17 <DiabloD3> gmaxwell: but I want unlimited sonnections :<
836 2012-05-06 23:53:10 <jine> bitcoin.org/bitcointalk/mtgox down?
837 2012-05-06 23:53:25 <jine> *sigh*
838 2012-05-06 23:53:34 Mobius_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
839 2012-05-06 23:53:51 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: 0.6.x branch pushed to stable repo; let me know what else to add before tagging v0.6.2 I guess
840 2012-05-06 23:54:05 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: right now, it's just 56f1e91 (Fix addrman crashes)
841 2012-05-06 23:54:20 <jine> Or my routing sucks.
842 2012-05-06 23:55:30 chrisb__ has joined
843 2012-05-06 23:56:08 <luke-jr> devrandom: ping?
844 2012-05-06 23:59:33 * luke-jr pokes Gavin
845 2012-05-06 23:59:37 <luke-jr> gavinandresen*
846 2012-05-06 23:59:44 <gmaxwell> I'm inclined to pull the reorg fix to master right now in the hopes of getting it more testing. Any objections?
847 2012-05-06 23:59:52 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: ACK