1 2012-05-09 00:00:01 <devrandom> right
   2 2012-05-09 00:00:07 <devrandom> a source repository can be a local dir
   3 2012-05-09 00:00:09 <sipa> the question is whether you want the commitish-resolve inside or outside gitian
   4 2012-05-09 00:00:35 <devrandom> I think it could be in gitian, but outside of the target
   5 2012-05-09 00:00:43 <sipa> i already do it, and i suppose every place who needs that functionality could do it as well
   6 2012-05-09 00:01:24 <sipa> so for the outside-gitian idea, i want to be able to specify a directory instead of a commit; i'll make sure that whatever i want to build is checked out in that directory at the moment i invoke gitian
   7 2012-05-09 00:01:31 <sipa> ---
   8 2012-05-09 00:02:34 <sipa> the other idea is to do it inside gitian; two options: a) only copy the source inside (git-archive), b) do resolving of commitishes/tags inside gitian but outside VM (basically make gitian do what my script now does to prepare inputs/bitcoin)
   9 2012-05-09 00:03:02 darkee has quit (!~darkee@gateway/tor-sasl/darkee|Remote host closed the connection)
  10 2012-05-09 00:03:12 <devrandom> gitian can do b)
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  12 2012-05-09 00:04:01 <sipa> ok: git init; git add remote <source>; git fetch --tags remote; git checkout <commitish>
  13 2012-05-09 00:04:13 <sipa> ow
  14 2012-05-09 00:04:30 <sipa> ok: git init DIR; cd DIR; git add remote origin <source>; git fetch --tags origin; git checkout <commitish>
  15 2012-05-09 00:04:33 <devrandom> need to record the commit too
  16 2012-05-09 00:04:44 <devrandom> I think git-show or something
  17 2012-05-09 00:05:02 darkee has quit (!~darkee@gateway/tor-sasl/darkee|Remote host closed the connection)
  18 2012-05-09 00:05:36 <sipa> ok: git init DIR; cd DIR; git add remote origin <source>; git fetch --tags origin; git checkout <commitish>; COMMIT=$(git log --pretty=oneline HEAD | head -1 | cut -d ' ' -f 1)
  19 2012-05-09 00:05:56 darkee has joined
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  21 2012-05-09 00:07:19 <devrandom> ok
  22 2012-05-09 00:07:39 <devrandom> I hope there's a nicer way to get the commit ;)
  23 2012-05-09 00:07:41 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@pool-96-226-236-130.dllstx.fios.verizon.net|brwyatt
  24 2012-05-09 00:08:24 <sipa> git log --format="%H" -1
  25 2012-05-09 00:08:28 <sipa> got it :)
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  27 2012-05-09 00:09:05 <sipa> devrandom: obviously, <source> should default to whatever is specified in the gitian descriptor
  28 2012-05-09 00:09:34 <devrandom> ok, cool
  29 2012-05-09 00:16:44 <BlueMatt> sipa: pong
  30 2012-05-09 00:16:56 <sipa> BlueMatt: pang
  31 2012-05-09 00:17:19 <BlueMatt> you poked?
  32 2012-05-09 00:17:40 <BlueMatt> oh, ppa...its building
  33 2012-05-09 00:18:11 <BlueMatt> elkingrey: ^
  34 2012-05-09 00:18:18 Insti_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  35 2012-05-09 00:18:19 bob12321_ has joined
  36 2012-05-09 00:18:26 <BlueMatt> see: https://launchpad.net/~bitcoin/+archive/bitcoin/+packages
  37 2012-05-09 00:18:39 Slix` has joined
  38 2012-05-09 00:18:47 <elkingrey> Thanks!
  39 2012-05-09 00:19:27 bob12321 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  40 2012-05-09 00:20:10 Insti_ has joined
  41 2012-05-09 00:20:33 <sipa> bitcoin-qt_0.6.2-oneiric0_i386.deb (1.4 MiB)
  42 2012-05-09 00:20:54 <BlueMatt> amd64 gets lower priority when building (blame launchpad) so its gotta wait another hour...
  43 2012-05-09 00:21:13 <sipa> surprised by how small it is
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  45 2012-05-09 00:21:26 <BlueMatt> dynamic linking ftw
  46 2012-05-09 00:21:36 <sipa> oh, of course
  47 2012-05-09 00:21:39 Mobius_ is now known as Mobius
  48 2012-05-09 00:21:48 Mobius is now known as MobiusL
  49 2012-05-09 00:21:54 * sipa wonders how much -flto would help there
  50 2012-05-09 00:22:52 <BlueMatt> bbl
  51 2012-05-09 00:23:05 <DiabloD3> faster than light transport ... something?
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  53 2012-05-09 00:23:52 <sipa> DiabloD3: almost
  54 2012-05-09 00:24:04 <sipa> link-time optimization
  55 2012-05-09 00:24:07 <DiabloD3> yes I know, its link time optimization
  56 2012-05-09 00:24:19 <DiabloD3> I just dont really care
  57 2012-05-09 00:24:28 <DiabloD3> Im tired of boring shit like that
  58 2012-05-09 00:24:43 <DiabloD3> why the fuck dont we just go back to lisp machines
  59 2012-05-09 00:25:42 <sipa> because of xkcd 297
  60 2012-05-09 00:26:34 <DiabloD3> you know, lisp doesnt HAVE to use s expressions
  61 2012-05-09 00:26:59 <sipa> still, it's ugly
  62 2012-05-09 00:27:10 <sipa> i know, stupid critique on a programming language
  63 2012-05-09 00:27:31 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gruez opened issue 1229 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1229>
  64 2012-05-09 00:27:35 <DiabloD3> eh
  65 2012-05-09 00:27:49 <DiabloD3> to be honest, its why I dont use lisp
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  68 2012-05-09 00:32:30 <jgarzik> luke-jr: rebased #1101 (threaded rpc / http 1.1)
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  70 2012-05-09 00:32:48 <jgarzik> luke-jr: that should address some of your comments.  any chance you can give it an "it works" test?
  71 2012-05-09 00:34:57 <devrandom> sipa: ../bitcoin/share/genbuild.sh:    DESC="$(git describe --dirty 2>/dev/null)"
  72 2012-05-09 00:35:13 <devrandom> that depends on the target having the git repo
  73 2012-05-09 00:36:00 <sipa> devrandom: yes
  74 2012-05-09 00:36:22 <sipa> devrandom: but it also works on source code exported via git-archive
  75 2012-05-09 00:36:35 <sipa> devrandom: though the gitian descriptor would have to be changed
  76 2012-05-09 00:37:41 <devrandom> how would git-describe work without a .git dir?
  77 2012-05-09 00:37:51 <sipa> not, but it shouldn't be called
  78 2012-05-09 00:38:29 <sipa> hmm, it doesn't seem to check for the existance of .git
  79 2012-05-09 00:38:36 <sipa> ok, yes, that would have to be changed as well
  80 2012-05-09 00:38:45 <devrandom> ok
  81 2012-05-09 00:38:47 <sipa> anyway, i'd prefer the git repo to be available inside, yes
  82 2012-05-09 00:38:59 <sipa> but git-archive is certainly easier from your sie
  83 2012-05-09 00:39:01 <sipa> side
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  86 2012-05-09 00:43:20 <devrandom> sipa: so maybe just leave the existing copying of the whole repo as is, and just resolve the commitish outside
  87 2012-05-09 00:43:40 <sipa> devrandom: what we discussed, no?
  88 2012-05-09 00:44:05 <sipa> git init DIR; cd DIR; git add remote origin <source>; git fetch --tags origin; git checkout <commitish>; COMMIT=$(git log --format="%H" -1)
  89 2012-05-09 00:44:07 egecko_ is now known as egecko
  90 2012-05-09 00:44:14 <sipa> that will give you the DIR to copy inside
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  92 2012-05-09 00:44:57 <devrandom> okay, I thought we were saying that git-archive should then be used to copy this into the target
  93 2012-05-09 00:45:04 <devrandom> but we should just copy as is
  94 2012-05-09 00:45:34 <sipa> right, i didn't realize that that could be the precursor to running git-archive as well
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  99 2012-05-09 00:47:49 <sipa> devrandom: for git-archive it would be even easier: git archive --remote=<source> <commitish> >file.tar
 100 2012-05-09 00:52:50 <devrandom> sipa: but then genbuild.sh won't work
 101 2012-05-09 00:54:02 <sipa> devrandom: in that case we don't pass -DHAVE_BUILD_INFO to bitcoin, and everything will work (see version.cpp's magic)
 102 2012-05-09 00:54:41 <sipa> but again, i would prefer having the entire repository inside, but git-archive was a viable option if you preferred that
 103 2012-05-09 00:55:01 <devrandom> I don't have a preference, so will proceed without git-archive
 104 2012-05-09 00:55:30 <sipa> ok :)
 105 2012-05-09 00:56:52 <devrandom> :]
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 110 2012-05-09 01:02:48 <jgarzik> dammit sipa :)
 111 2012-05-09 01:02:59 * jgarzik throws a -Wall in sipa's direction
 112 2012-05-09 01:03:23 <sipa> hmm?
 113 2012-05-09 01:04:15 <sipa> let me guess: some of my code (that was written pre-cleanup of -W flags) causes warnings?
 114 2012-05-09 01:05:27 <devrandom> sipa: I pushed the gitian change to the repo.  It now resolves the commit on the host and creates a line like this in the input manifest:
 115 2012-05-09 01:05:30 <devrandom>     git:397737b9133118d71d2c8ba6a95afea0ba7d4350 bitcoin
 116 2012-05-09 01:07:03 <jgarzik> sipa: git pull && build :)
 117 2012-05-09 01:07:21 <BlueMatt> sipa: heh, I was looking at that earlier...and, yea...netbase does
 118 2012-05-09 01:08:09 <jgarzik> void CAddrMan::SwapRandom(int nRndPos1, int nRndPos2)
 119 2012-05-09 01:08:15 <jgarzik> sipa: ^^ can that be unsigned?
 120 2012-05-09 01:08:21 <sipa> yes
 121 2012-05-09 01:08:29 <sipa> those are indices into a vector
 122 2012-05-09 01:09:05 <DiabloD3> ;;bc,diff
 123 2012-05-09 01:09:06 <gribble> 1508589.6720603
 124 2012-05-09 01:09:26 <sipa> wait, why does master still build with -Wno-sign-compare -Wno-invalid-offsetof
 125 2012-05-09 01:09:31 <sipa> aren't those fixed?
 126 2012-05-09 01:10:39 <luke-jr> jgarzik: sorry, all my stuff depends on being able to call other JSON-RPC during getwork
 127 2012-05-09 01:10:46 <luke-jr> jgarzik: so your version doesn't work for me
 128 2012-05-09 01:11:08 <sipa> jgarzik: i'll fix the warnings
 129 2012-05-09 01:11:33 <jgarzik> sipa: ok
 130 2012-05-09 01:11:35 <BlueMatt> there are still a few issues in qt
 131 2012-05-09 01:12:08 <luke-jr> is the transaction count varint included in the block size limit?
 132 2012-05-09 01:12:26 <luke-jr> CreateNewBlock doesn't seem to take it into consideration when deciding whether to include new transactions…
 133 2012-05-09 01:12:51 <sipa> luke-jr: it leaves 500000 bytes unused anyway ;)
 134 2012-05-09 01:13:00 <jgarzik> luke-jr: as I mentioned a few weeks ago during the ThreadRPCServer locking discussion, the commits to do that are easily based on top of my two commits
 135 2012-05-09 01:13:00 <sipa> should suffice
 136 2012-05-09 01:13:22 <gmaxwell> hmph. I checked for warnings before each of my pulls today.
 137 2012-05-09 01:13:24 <jgarzik> luke-jr: step 1) look at orig pull req.  step 2) look at which patches are not in my pull req.  step 3) apply those patches on top of my pull req.
 138 2012-05-09 01:13:26 <gmaxwell> What I miss?
 139 2012-05-09 01:13:31 <luke-jr> jgarzik: yes, just explaining why I can't "just" test that pull by itself
 140 2012-05-09 01:14:03 * jgarzik added -Wall...  but only for makefile.unix
 141 2012-05-09 01:14:15 <sipa> -Wall was there all along
 142 2012-05-09 01:14:26 <jgarzik> sipa: not by default
 143 2012-05-09 01:14:28 <BlueMatt> there are only like 5 warnings in qt for -Wno-sign-compare
 144 2012-05-09 01:14:37 <sipa> jgarzik: eh, sure?
 145 2012-05-09 01:14:43 <jgarzik> sipa: yes
 146 2012-05-09 01:15:00 <jgarzik> sipa: look at HEAD
 147 2012-05-09 01:15:19 <sipa> in xCXXFLAGS
 148 2012-05-09 01:15:44 <jgarzik> yes
 149 2012-05-09 01:15:52 <jgarzik> xCXXFLAGS is not default
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 151 2012-05-09 01:16:15 <sipa> it was still used
 152 2012-05-09 01:16:27 <sipa> (who came up with that?)
 153 2012-05-09 01:16:54 <BlueMatt> ok...wtf launchpad, 0.6.2 builds have been "Start in 1 hour" for like 5 hours now...
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 155 2012-05-09 01:17:18 <jgarzik> yes
 156 2012-05-09 01:17:27 <jgarzik> and that wants cleaning too
 157 2012-05-09 01:17:49 * jgarzik changed both in HEAD
 158 2012-05-09 01:17:49 <sipa> jgarzik: this is output from my make some minutes ago, before your commit:
 159 2012-05-09 01:17:50 <sipa> g++ -c -pthread -Wall -Wextra -Wno-sign-compare -Wno-invalid-offsetof -Wno-unused-parameter -Wformat -Wformat-security -g  -I/home/pw/git/bitcoin/src -I/home/pw/git/bitcoin/src/obj -DUSE_UPNP=0 -DHAVE_BUILD_INFO -fno-stack-protector -fstack-protector-all -Wstack-protector -Wl,-z,relro -Wl,-z,now -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -O2 -MMD -o obj/checkpoints.o checkpoints.cpp
 160 2012-05-09 01:18:30 <sipa> -Wall has always been there, but there were some -Wno-* on top
 161 2012-05-09 01:19:00 <jgarzik> sipa: ah, I misunderstood things just a tad, then
 162 2012-05-09 01:19:12 <sipa> but i definitely agree that xCXXFLAGS needs cleanup
 163 2012-05-09 01:19:19 <sipa> not sure what it's for
 164 2012-05-09 01:19:46 <sipa> are there some default .cpp->.o rules being used too, which need different CXXFLAGS
 165 2012-05-09 01:19:49 <sipa> ?
 166 2012-05-09 01:20:01 <jgarzik> sipa: CXXFLAGS is only used in one place: xCXXFLAGS
 167 2012-05-09 01:20:23 <jgarzik> sipa: probably just an easy way to vary cflags in the makefile, without annoying line editing of flags we-don't-want-to-change
 168 2012-05-09 01:20:39 <sipa> jgarzik: CXXFLAGS is used in the default .cpp -> .o rule
 169 2012-05-09 01:20:45 <sipa> implicitlu
 170 2012-05-09 01:20:56 <sipa> but i don't know if that implicit rule is being used anywhere
 171 2012-05-09 01:22:16 <jgarzik> sipa: well xCXXFLAGS clearly includes flags we absolutely _must_ compile with, such as -pthread
 172 2012-05-09 01:22:59 <jgarzik> obj/%.o: %.cpp
 173 2012-05-09 01:22:59 <jgarzik>         $(CXX) -c $(xCXXFLAGS) -MMD -o $@ $<
 174 2012-05-09 01:23:09 <jgarzik> sipa: default rule appears to use xCXXFLAGS to me?
 175 2012-05-09 01:26:08 Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 176 2012-05-09 01:26:35 <sipa> indeed; the implicit one is not used anywhere
 177 2012-05-09 01:26:38 <sipa> i'll clean it up too
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 182 2012-05-09 01:30:28 <sipa> osx build doesn't need -pthreads ?
 183 2012-05-09 01:30:41 <sipa> -s
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 185 2012-05-09 01:31:53 <jgarzik> sipa: ok, I fixed my mistake, and that's the last of my pulls/poking for a while.  Feel free to commit
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 187 2012-05-09 01:32:07 <jgarzik> sipa: any platform should get -pthreads, AFAIK.  It's a compiler switch, at a minimum.
 188 2012-05-09 01:32:15 <jgarzik> even if the /usr includes don't need it
 189 2012-05-09 01:32:33 <jgarzik> maybe gavinandresen is an OSX thread expert
 190 2012-05-09 01:32:46 <gavinandresen> not so much
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 204 2012-05-09 01:54:02 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa opened pull request 1230 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1230>
 205 2012-05-09 01:54:53 <sipa> jgarzik: ^
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 209 2012-05-09 02:10:34 <jgarzik> sipa: nUBucket and GetNewBucket() should be unsigned, not casted
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 219 2012-05-09 02:27:01 <sipa> http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/3605/turn-off-coin-generation
 220 2012-05-09 02:27:02 <sipa> hmm
 221 2012-05-09 02:27:14 <gmaxwell> hah
 222 2012-05-09 02:28:19 <gmaxwell> sipa: or is the 100% cpu the thing that was being reported on osx here the other evening?
 223 2012-05-09 02:29:22 <dwon> Could someone sanity-check my commit message here, before I send a pull request to BitcoinArmory?  I want to make sure what I'm saying about spending txouts is actually correct.  https://github.com/dlitz/BitcoinArmory/commit/39e102326ae318c56724da285fbc15d22b9a3f6b
 224 2012-05-09 02:29:57 <sipa> gmaxwell: oh yes, indeed
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 227 2012-05-09 02:31:21 <sipa> dwon: i can't say anything about the change or the code, but the commit message sounds technically correct
 228 2012-05-09 02:32:43 <gmaxwell> Is another here running bitcoin 0.6.2 on OSX?
 229 2012-05-09 02:33:10 <dwon> sipa: That's what I was looking for.  Thanks!
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 240 2012-05-09 02:49:27 <luke-jr> Anyone available to review https://github.com/luke-jr/bitcoin/commit/2d1efd9ef1fe43b8106beb6639ede90f91dc7cba ?
 241 2012-05-09 02:49:40 <luke-jr> (completely untested so far, beware)
 242 2012-05-09 02:50:43 Garr255Playbook has joined
 243 2012-05-09 02:51:52 <sipa> luke-jr: why store a pointer instead of a reference to mapinfo_t, if you always dereference anyway?
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 246 2012-05-09 02:52:28 <luke-jr> sipa: can you store references? O.o
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 248 2012-05-09 02:56:29 <sipa> sure
 249 2012-05-09 02:57:04 <sipa> you need to initialize them in the constructor's initializer list, though
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 251 2012-05-09 02:57:19 <sipa> as you can't assign anything to them afterwards
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 254 2012-05-09 02:57:37 <luke-jr> sipa: I don't think that's possible here, as the std::map is implicitly creating them
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 256 2012-05-09 02:58:16 <sipa> ah, yes, that makes a default constructor impossible
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 258 2012-05-09 02:58:37 <sipa> and map's [] need a default constructor
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 264 2012-05-09 03:02:58 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: you were wondering earlier what happened to my block-download-parallelization stuff, just finished redoing it...bit more to do, but it works, if you care... https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/commits/parallelcheck
 265 2012-05-09 03:03:24 <BlueMatt> s/redoing/rebasing and redoing parts/
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 273 2012-05-09 03:34:26 <paulo_> is there a limit for the # of transactions per day?
 274 2012-05-09 03:35:02 <sipa> as much as miners are willing to mine
 275 2012-05-09 03:35:21 <paulo_> that's weird
 276 2012-05-09 03:35:25 <paulo_> i just discovered today
 277 2012-05-09 03:35:28 <sipa> and transactions have a minimum size, and sizes of blocks are limited, and blocks are almost-limited
 278 2012-05-09 03:35:44 <paulo_> why do I have a namecoin folder beside the bitcoin folder?
 279 2012-05-09 03:35:52 <sipa> i have no idea
 280 2012-05-09 03:36:10 <gmaxwell> paulo_: because you started namecoin at some point— or the hackers maintaining your computer did.
 281 2012-05-09 03:36:27 <paulo_> is there even a windows client?
 282 2012-05-09 03:36:34 <sipa> i have no idea
 283 2012-05-09 03:36:43 <gmaxwell> Sure, just no gui.
 284 2012-05-09 03:37:18 <paulo_> look at that, i have namecoind.exe.
 285 2012-05-09 03:37:39 JZavala has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 286 2012-05-09 03:40:36 <gmaxwell> You may want to consider moderating your alcohol consumption. ;)
 287 2012-05-09 03:40:41 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 288 2012-05-09 03:40:42 <gmaxwell> Blackouts are a bad sign.
 289 2012-05-09 03:41:01 <sipa> or getting alzheimer treatment
 290 2012-05-09 03:41:14 <gmaxwell> "oh man, I was so drunk I installed a cryptocurrency and don't even remember it!"
 291 2012-05-09 03:41:40 <sipa> now this would be a bad time to discover you also invested your life's savings into it
 292 2012-05-09 03:41:49 <gmaxwell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylene_blue#Clinical_trials  thank me if you remember to tomorrow.
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 300 2012-05-09 04:10:58 <DiabloD3> updated the top ten: deepbit, btcguild, slush, ozcoin, eligius, emc, p2pool, 50btc, mtred, bitminter
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 306 2012-05-09 04:27:33 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sgaltsev opened issue 1231 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1231>
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 320 2012-05-09 04:49:27 <twobitcoins> sipa: Regarding the genbuild stuff in bitcoin-qt.pro, the syntax for logical or is "|", not "||".  With '||', I find that the "!windows || contains(USE_BUILD_INFO, 1)" block is entered on windows.
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 354 2012-05-09 05:27:40 <paulo_> why was 0.6.1 suddenly replaced with 0.6.2?
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 359 2012-05-09 05:32:18 <BlueMatt> because there were some fixes that didnt make it before 0.6.1 was released that are moderately important
 360 2012-05-09 05:33:31 <BlueMatt> or was it only one fix?
 361 2012-05-09 05:33:49 <wump> yea 0.6.1 has the unstable addrman
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 403 2012-05-09 06:15:50 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: TheBlueMatt opened pull request 1232 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1232>
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 416 2012-05-09 06:31:18 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: TheBlueMatt opened pull request 1233 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1233>
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 423 2012-05-09 06:47:07 <topi`_> sipa: I  still get the crash after reorganising the blockchain. wanna see the debug.log?
 424 2012-05-09 06:47:10 <topi`_> sipa: http://pastebin.com/DcYjZUeP
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 431 2012-05-09 07:10:35 <dusty_> I read somewhere that in testnet after some time that no new blocks are minet the difficulty is reset to some value I don't know
 432 2012-05-09 07:10:44 <dusty_> but there is no hint to that on the page https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Testnet
 433 2012-05-09 07:10:55 <dusty_> can someone please add there the relevant info?
 434 2012-05-09 07:11:47 <BTC_Bear> Yea, I think they did that after people started trading test net coins. lol
 435 2012-05-09 07:15:17 <BlueMatt> no, after people started trading testnet coins, testnet was reset, that was just because it was impossibly to test with testnet
 436 2012-05-09 07:15:22 <BlueMatt> (and had been for a while)
 437 2012-05-09 07:15:38 DamascusVG has quit (Quit: I Quit - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p97zsQ51Rw)
 438 2012-05-09 07:15:44 <dusty_> anyway, I don't know this rule, can someone point me to the details?
 439 2012-05-09 07:15:55 <BlueMatt> the only details are probably in the code...
 440 2012-05-09 07:18:01 <wumpus> from what I understand, the testnet is broken at the moment and needs to be reset again
 441 2012-05-09 07:18:14 <wumpus> best is to use a testnet-in-a-box when testing
 442 2012-05-09 07:18:26 <wumpus> at least then you have control over everything
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 444 2012-05-09 07:21:42 <BlueMatt> wumpus: when did that happen?
 445 2012-05-09 07:22:19 <wumpus> I don't know, I just know gavin wants to reset it with 0.7
 446 2012-05-09 07:22:27 <BlueMatt> hmmm...
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 456 2012-05-09 07:34:19 <Nachtwind> hi, has anyone here an idea how to use getbalance via command line to return the whole balance including 0 conf transactions on windows?
 457 2012-05-09 07:34:39 <Nachtwind> ./bitcoind getbalance `*` 0
 458 2012-05-09 07:34:45 <Nachtwind> returns always 0.000000
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 465 2012-05-09 07:51:11 <sipa> topi`_: your blockchain db is corrupt, you'll need to redownload it
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 469 2012-05-09 07:51:55 <sipa> twobitcoins: oh, good to know
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 536 2012-05-09 10:06:40 <Eliel> I think something needs to be done to the user interface to help users avoid situations like this. I wonder how many have just silently just abandoned bitcoin after trying and not seeing the transaction in their client. http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/tcy73/help_i_withdrew_funds_from_mtgox_gave_them_my/
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 540 2012-05-09 10:23:24 <drizztbsd> bitcoin 0.6.2 for archlinux committed
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 545 2012-05-09 10:37:31 <gmaxwell> Eliel: are you aware of other public examples of that?
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 547 2012-05-09 10:38:48 <Eliel> gmaxwell: no, but it's not clearly visible from the UI that you can't expect transactions to show up before the blockchain download is complete. There's also plenty of people who don't read instructions.
 548 2012-05-09 10:40:52 <gmaxwell> I wasn't doubting you, I was going to open an issue on it and just wondered if you had other examples.
 549 2012-05-09 10:41:05 <Eliel> I think a good way to fix this would be to show a note on the top of the transaction list that says "blockchain still downloading, some transactions may not show up"
 550 2012-05-09 10:41:08 <Eliel> oh, sorry.
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 553 2012-05-09 10:43:49 <Eliel> gmaxwell: can you give me the link to the issue when you're done? I'll go add it to the reddit thread. (Shows developers are awake)
 554 2012-05-09 10:43:53 <wumpus> the block chain is always downloading, though
 555 2012-05-09 10:44:06 <wumpus> or do you mean only during initial download?
 556 2012-05-09 10:44:19 <Eliel> wumpus: yes, initial download only. That's the only time this issue can manifest.
 557 2012-05-09 10:44:34 <Eliel> or if there's a longer catch up download after not running the client for a while.
 558 2012-05-09 10:44:36 <gmaxwell> It's not the only time this issue can manifest, but its worse for sure.
 559 2012-05-09 10:45:39 <wumpus> but yes I agree, can you write the message though I'm not good at that
 560 2012-05-09 10:46:31 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gmaxwell opened issue 1236 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1236> || Diapolo opened pull request 1235 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1235> || gmaxwell opened issue 1234 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1234>
 561 2012-05-09 10:46:40 <Eliel> "Syncing with the network, new transactions may not show up until done", how about this?
 562 2012-05-09 10:47:40 <gmaxwell> Eliel: so— what happens where you're just a few hours behind but the message isn't displayed because its not in initial sync?
 563 2012-05-09 10:48:15 <wumpus> I don't think that's very common to be a few hours behind with a running client
 564 2012-05-09 10:48:18 <Eliel> if you ask me, that message should display whenever the client is more than 3 blocks behind.
 565 2012-05-09 10:48:44 <gmaxwell> Eliel: it can't tell when its "n blocks behind" in a reliable/secure way.
 566 2012-05-09 10:49:25 <gmaxwell> (just taking the peer's reported height is vulnerable to troublemakers)
 567 2012-05-09 10:49:44 <wumpus> yes, I think simply displaying it during the initial download (after client startup) is good enough
 568 2012-05-09 10:49:51 <gmaxwell> wumpus: no, if you've been up the whole time you shouldn't be behind. But lots of people start and stop their clients.
 569 2012-05-09 10:50:10 <wumpus> this also works if you are only a few blocks behind, that's considered "initial"
 570 2012-05-09 10:50:27 <Eliel> maybe only show the message on client startup until the client has synced?
 571 2012-05-09 10:50:29 <wumpus> (always when the progress bar is shown)
 572 2012-05-09 10:50:44 <Eliel> ah, that sounds good.
 573 2012-05-09 10:51:09 <vragnaroda> [20120509 10:45:55+0000]<      wumpus> | I don't think that's very common to be a few hours behind with a running client  <-- That's not true; I'm often days behind.
 574 2012-05-09 10:51:36 <gmaxwell> vragnaroda: with a client that was left running? Then something is horribly broken.
 575 2012-05-09 10:51:55 <vragnaroda> gmaxwell: No, but most of the time it's running, it hasn't been running for long.
 576 2012-05-09 10:51:55 <wumpus> well if you disconnect the network it could happen :p
 577 2012-05-09 10:52:32 <vragnaroda> Let's see how far behind I am now.
 578 2012-05-09 10:52:35 <Eliel> people with laptops who make them sleep for long periods at at time it could happen without bitcoin being restarted in the middle.
 579 2012-05-09 10:52:36 <wumpus> if there are no connections it could show the warning too
 580 2012-05-09 10:52:42 <vragnaroda> ;;bc,blocks
 581 2012-05-09 10:52:43 <gribble> 179411
 582 2012-05-09 10:52:46 <gmaxwell> Yea, in any case— I just encourage caution that the absense of the message doesnt add an additional kind of confusion. Otherwise it sounds like a good idea to do something.
 583 2012-05-09 10:53:03 <wumpus> yes, it should not be something that is 100% relied on
 584 2012-05-09 10:53:08 <wumpus> just another warning just in case
 585 2012-05-09 10:54:29 <wumpus> like the spinner, the green tick means it received a block that was generated in the last 90 minutes, but that in itself doesn't guarantee anything
 586 2012-05-09 10:54:34 <Eliel> perhaps you could automatically show the message if an hour goes past without any blocks?
 587 2012-05-09 10:54:43 <wumpus> yes, like the spinner
 588 2012-05-09 10:55:21 <Eliel> also if all connections are lost.
 589 2012-05-09 10:55:32 <Eliel> ... although that should probably be a different message then.
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 591 2012-05-09 10:56:08 <wumpus> nah I don't want to overthink this, could just add that to the current message
 592 2012-05-09 10:56:50 <Eliel> perhaps if the client has no connections it could show "No connection, new transactions will not be displayed"
 593 2012-05-09 10:57:25 <wumpus> though that should really be obvious... much more obvious than "your client is behind"
 594 2012-05-09 10:57:48 <vragnaroda> Ah, on this machine, I'm 11 days behind.
 595 2012-05-09 10:57:50 <gmaxwell> wumpus: well, except they have to fuddle that out from the ideogram in the lower right.
 596 2012-05-09 10:58:03 <Eliel> yes, in that case you could probably even change the titlebar of the bitcoin-window. To have (offline) in it.
 597 2012-05-09 10:58:26 <gmaxwell> Actually it might make sense to always say it after startup until the next block is recieved.
 598 2012-05-09 10:58:26 <wumpus> gmaxwell: which they are used to from their phones, their wifi icons, etc etc 
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 606 2012-05-09 11:11:45 <gmaxwell> wumpus: UI wise we show that indicator in the wrong place if we're expecting people to use phones as the reference. Eh?   In any case, I'm not worried about it— staying disconnected isn't a common outcome except when you're totally offline. And even a dunce like me can figuring out that no network at all means no bitcoin.
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 608 2012-05-09 11:14:55 <vragnaroda> gmaxwell: Well, this isn't a problem for “dunces like you,” though. :P  (It takes an entirely different variety.)
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 613 2012-05-09 11:21:45 <TimothyA> is it normal that bitcoind on linux is supposed to take several minutes to reply to an RPC command?
 614 2012-05-09 11:23:47 <gmaxwell> TimothyA: during initial sync it can be slow to respond, but otherwise no.
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 620 2012-05-09 11:25:06 * TimothyA waits patiently
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 622 2012-05-09 11:27:40 <wumpus> depends on the command
 623 2012-05-09 11:27:46 <wumpus> importprivkey can take a long time, for example
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 626 2012-05-09 11:28:31 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gmaxwell opened pull request 1237 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1237>
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 678 2012-05-09 12:01:36 <Erdon> Hello there. I'd like to maybe pick up a small coding project involving Bitcoin to help back the community during the summer. Does Bitcoin have a page with project ideas available to pick up, similar to Tor's https://www.torproject.org/getinvolved/volunteer.html.en ?
 679 2012-05-09 12:03:22 <gmaxwell> Not really, I maintain a personal feature wishlist, but not many of them are sutiable for start projects.  https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/User:Gmaxwell/features
 680 2012-05-09 12:03:52 <gmaxwell> (nor have all of them been ACKed as actually desirable to have by the other developers, but I'm pretty sure most are)
 681 2012-05-09 12:06:42 <gmaxwell> (and in particular, my list pretty much completely neglects the GUI— because I don't use it myself)
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 688 2012-05-09 12:14:16 <wumpus> the github issue list also has some suggestions, though most are small stuff
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 695 2012-05-09 12:22:13 <Erdon> thank you, i'll look through these.
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 701 2012-05-09 12:25:04 <twmz> is there a known issue with CPU spiking to 100% with 0.6.2?  It seems to happen reliably within 10-20 minutes of bitcoin-qt starting on my mac.  Wasn't happening with 0.6.1.
 702 2012-05-09 12:25:59 <twmz> http://hastebin.com/xujanijexe.txt
 703 2012-05-09 12:26:01 <gmaxwell> twmz: We had a report of this in 0.6.1 with some indication of the cause.
 704 2012-05-09 12:26:25 <gmaxwell> The difference between 0.6.2 and 0.6.1 should not have been able to cause that. More likely that 0.6.1 had it too and you didn't notice.
 705 2012-05-09 12:27:07 <twmz> going to swap back to 0.6.1 and check.  I might not hve noticed it I guess, but it is making my CPU fan spin up and be noisy which is why I noticed it now.
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 707 2012-05-09 12:28:37 <gmaxwell> twmz: That output doesn't seem helpful to me— perhaps I don't know how to read it.
 708 2012-05-09 12:28:48 <twmz> neither do I :)
 709 2012-05-09 12:28:56 <gmaxwell> it looks like its saying everything it reported had about equal coverage.
 710 2012-05-09 12:29:02 <wumpus> can you find out what thread it is that is causing the CPU usage?
 711 2012-05-09 12:29:11 <wumpus> this seems like a snapshot of the runtime state
 712 2012-05-09 12:29:15 <twmz> It's call stacks of all of the threads.
 713 2012-05-09 12:29:55 <twmz> I can use whatever tool you want.  that's just the tool I know about that is built into Activity Monitor on OS X.
 714 2012-05-09 12:30:15 <twmz> btw, you are correct that 0.6.1 is doing it also.  I just didn't notice.
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 716 2012-05-09 12:31:07 <wumpus> can it show cpu usage on a per-thread basis instead of for a process in total?
 717 2012-05-09 12:31:39 <twmz> I have no idea.  I just clicked the button in case it was useful.  it might not be useful.
 718 2012-05-09 12:32:00 <gmaxwell> twmz: the backtraces would be a lot more useful if we knew which of the threads was the source of the activity— it's not obvious. Alas.
 719 2012-05-09 12:32:40 <wumpus> though the main thread call tree is weird... a resize event inside a resize event
 720 2012-05-09 12:34:46 <twmz> Debugging c++ applications on OS X is a mystery to me.  I seem to be able to reproduce the problem easily enough. if someone who knows what tool to actually use can tell me what to do, I am happy to gather whatever data would be useful.
 721 2012-05-09 12:35:22 <wumpus> is it doing anything special? like initial block download?
 722 2012-05-09 12:36:21 <wumpus> can you try selecting an entry in the address book? does it stay selected?
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 724 2012-05-09 12:36:57 <wumpus> (that was an issue that should be solved in 0.6.1 though)
 725 2012-05-09 12:37:07 <twmz> debug.log doesn't show anything frantic.  looks like normal p2p interactions and occasional rpc requests.
 726 2012-05-09 12:37:58 <twmz> yes, if I select an address in address book, it stays selected
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 728 2012-05-09 12:38:23 <wumpus> ok great
 729 2012-05-09 12:39:23 <twmz> here are the last 60 seconds of debug.log:  http://hastebin.com/xukaqevupo.txt
 730 2012-05-09 12:39:49 <wumpus> I have no idea what the problem can be, then, we had a 100% issue before on mac which was caused by boost::ipc for URLs, but that was disabled
 731 2012-05-09 12:42:16 <gmaxwell> The other person reporting it was saying that it was in the spinning on the csOutbound waitable... but I don't see how unless locking is just horribly broken on mac... and I wasn't real confident that he wasn't just picking the first thing he saw in a stacktrace.
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 733 2012-05-09 12:45:06 <twmz> I am just randomly trying things, but I just tried the Time Profiler in XCode (which I don't really know how to use).
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 735 2012-05-09 12:45:59 <twmz> It seems to be saying that all of the time is being spent on the thread that is in ThreadOpenConnections2 if I am not misinterpreting the output
 736 2012-05-09 12:46:17 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1238 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1238>
 737 2012-05-09 12:46:41 <sipa> gmaxwell: we could easily test, by adding a Sleep(50) or so inside WAIT
 738 2012-05-09 12:47:06 <twmz> http://i.imgur.com/mwvaO.png
 739 2012-05-09 12:47:34 <gmaxwell> https://svn.boost.org/trac/boost/ticket/6108
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 741 2012-05-09 12:49:08 <gmaxwell> twmz: thats helpful!
 742 2012-05-09 12:49:42 <gmaxwell> (it really does confirm that its burning CPU in WAIT())
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 744 2012-05-09 12:51:04 <sipa> bleh
 745 2012-05-09 12:51:28 <sipa> so you can only wait for other threads, not conditions?
 746 2012-05-09 12:51:29 <gmaxwell> sipa: stick a sleep(500) in the condition— so it can get shortcutted out when we're going to exit.
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 748 2012-05-09 12:51:49 <gmaxwell> sipa: sounds like it becomes a busyspin on the condition.
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 750 2012-05-09 12:51:54 <sipa> yes
 751 2012-05-09 12:52:29 <wumpus> on mac, at least
 752 2012-05-09 12:53:22 <wumpus> seems that boost on mac likes busy-waiting
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 756 2012-05-09 12:54:20 <sipa> that trac page says that this is correct behavior
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 761 2012-05-09 12:54:56 <sipa> so i am wrong about the semantics if condition::wait
 762 2012-05-09 12:55:16 <sipa> of
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 768 2012-05-09 13:05:49 <sipa> twmz: can you build from source?
 769 2012-05-09 13:06:47 <luke-jr> https://github.com/luke-jr/bitcoin/commit/ad70c926783e6082a731af158dcea57bf574f28f
 770 2012-05-09 13:07:31 <drizztbsd> there is a feature in blockchain.info wallet that I think can be useful also on satoshi client
 771 2012-05-09 13:07:56 <sipa> drizztbsd: being?
 772 2012-05-09 13:08:02 <drizztbsd> you have the balance of any single addresses
 773 2012-05-09 13:08:26 <drizztbsd> s/any/every/
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 775 2012-05-09 13:08:56 <drizztbsd> https://blockchain.info/wallet/demo-account => Receive Money
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 777 2012-05-09 13:09:56 <sipa> drizztbsd: that would require an index from all addresses to blocks/transactions that receive from or send coins
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 782 2012-05-09 13:12:57 <sipa> drizztbsd: but is that really what you as an end-user want?
 783 2012-05-09 13:13:05 <gmaxwell> Certantly would make import a lot faster...
 784 2012-05-09 13:13:13 <wumpus> what would the use for end users be? it would kind of break the wallet abstraction
 785 2012-05-09 13:13:37 <sipa> for example a watch-only wallet, with just addresses in it, is much closer to that abstraction
 786 2012-05-09 13:13:56 <sipa> though that obviously requires multi-wallet support
 787 2012-05-09 13:14:25 <gmaxwell> yea, I think multi-wallet would need to come first before even talking about that.
 788 2012-05-09 13:14:46 <drizztbsd> I think there is 1 or 2 clients with multi-wallet supports
 789 2012-05-09 13:14:52 <wumpus> what's the big blocker for multi-wallet support?
 790 2012-05-09 13:14:57 <sipa> wumpus: BDB
 791 2012-05-09 13:14:58 <twmz> sipa: my OS X machine is not setup for building from souce at the moment, but I can do that after work tonight.
 792 2012-05-09 13:15:32 <sipa> wumpus: if we do multi-wallet i feel we must do it properly, with users being able to "open wallet file", anywhere in the filesystem
 793 2012-05-09 13:15:36 <wumpus> BDB has problems with multiple open databases?
 794 2012-05-09 13:15:56 <sipa> not at all
 795 2012-05-09 13:15:59 <wumpus> right, bdb can only open databases in its database path
 796 2012-05-09 13:16:08 <sipa> not even
 797 2012-05-09 13:16:10 <sipa> but each database requires a bdb environment
 798 2012-05-09 13:16:18 <drizztbsd> which is the problem about using sqlite3?
 799 2012-05-09 13:16:28 <gmaxwell> ...
 800 2012-05-09 13:16:30 <wumpus> don't mention it...
 801 2012-05-09 13:16:33 <sipa> drizztbsd: the fact that we don't need a database at all
 802 2012-05-09 13:16:40 <drizztbsd> bdb is still a db :P
 803 2012-05-09 13:16:55 <sipa> yes, and i want to get rid of it (except for the blockchain)
 804 2012-05-09 13:16:58 <wumpus> so, how is that append-only log-structure dformat coming along?
 805 2012-05-09 13:17:10 <sipa> wumpus: it worked
 806 2012-05-09 13:17:18 <sipa> but it was a quick hack only
 807 2012-05-09 13:17:25 <wumpus> we could make it optional (for external wallets only) first
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 810 2012-05-09 13:18:17 <sipa> doing that does require an atomic move when you want to rewrite the file, and atomic moves don't exist in boost::filesystem v2
 811 2012-05-09 13:19:32 <wumpus> when would you want to re-write it? it's append-only for a reason :p
 812 2012-05-09 13:19:43 <sipa> wumpus: if the useful % in it becomes too small
 813 2012-05-09 13:20:03 <wumpus> I wouldn't really trust a hand-rolled wallet format, unless it promises to only ever append
 814 2012-05-09 13:20:37 <sipa> maybe we could provide an external tool to compact a wallet
 815 2012-05-09 13:20:44 <wumpus> if you want to delte keys use some advanced toolkit
 816 2012-05-09 13:20:44 <wumpus> yeah
 817 2012-05-09 13:20:58 <sipa> no, i don't mean deleting keys
 818 2012-05-09 13:21:19 <wumpus> of course.. wallet encryption :/
 819 2012-05-09 13:21:28 <sipa> orthogonal
 820 2012-05-09 13:21:39 <sipa> right, you need a rewrite of course then
 821 2012-05-09 13:21:42 <wumpus> well it needs a rewrite
 822 2012-05-09 13:21:54 <wumpus> or you could just append "kindly ignore the unencrypted keys before this"
 823 2012-05-09 13:22:00 <drizztbsd> to delete keys there is pywallet
 824 2012-05-09 13:22:01 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1239 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1239>
 825 2012-05-09 13:22:01 <drizztbsd> :P
 826 2012-05-09 13:22:20 <sipa> wumpus: there is an alternative
 827 2012-05-09 13:22:28 <sipa> have two files, a normal one and a .bak
 828 2012-05-09 13:22:42 <sipa> every append goes to both
 829 2012-05-09 13:23:01 <wumpus> or just avoid boost for this call and implement our own atomic rename, until we can drop boost filesystem 2 support
 830 2012-05-09 13:23:16 <sipa> and when compacting, you do them both sequentially
 831 2012-05-09 13:23:34 <drizztbsd> (man 2) rename should work also on windows
 832 2012-05-09 13:23:37 <wumpus> yes, that could work too, some kind of double buffereing
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 834 2012-05-09 13:26:23 <wumpus> though I still think compaction should never be done automatically, only when requested by the user or when unavioidable (like when encrypting)
 835 2012-05-09 13:27:13 <drizztbsd> defragmentation could be a problem
 836 2012-05-09 13:27:48 <sipa> wallet files are typically small
 837 2012-05-09 13:27:56 <sipa> drizztbsd: and i think you mean fragmentation :)
 838 2012-05-09 13:28:08 <drizztbsd> ops sorry
 839 2012-05-09 13:28:09 <drizztbsd> yes
 840 2012-05-09 13:29:55 <wumpus> I don't think fragmentation is a problem in this case, not like with the block chain file which has a lot of information to process over a long time
 841 2012-05-09 13:30:00 <sipa> indeed
 842 2012-05-09 13:30:22 <sipa> except if you're deepbit, of course
 843 2012-05-09 13:31:31 <wumpus> right, but they can afford to have a seperate disk especially for the wallet :p
 844 2012-05-09 13:31:44 <drizztbsd> or ssd
 845 2012-05-09 13:31:50 <wumpus> heh
 846 2012-05-09 13:34:37 <sipa> wumpus: shouldn't be too much work to get it working really; i was quite close until i realized i need a slightly more complex locking system
 847 2012-05-09 13:35:25 * Eliel likes this new thing called Software Transactional Memory in Haskell.
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 849 2012-05-09 13:36:14 <Eliel> solves the need for locks as long as what's being modified is entirely in memory.
 850 2012-05-09 13:37:24 <sipa> wumpus: the format is this: the file consists of a sequence of blocks, each block starts with a magic, then a sequence of records, then an end-of-records-marker, then a 64-bit checksum
 851 2012-05-09 13:37:51 <sipa> if a block cannot be read entirely and the checksum matches, it is not read further
 852 2012-05-09 13:38:17 <sipa> and each record is "assign key = value" or "delete key"
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 854 2012-05-09 13:38:53 <sipa> Eliel: STM is nice from what i hear about it, but i don't know enough details really
 855 2012-05-09 13:39:08 <wumpus> Eliel: imagine writing a bitcoin client in haskell though :-) (I had a nightmare about implementing one in erlang once, must be a comparable experience)
 856 2012-05-09 13:39:23 <wumpus> sipa: sounds good
 857 2012-05-09 13:39:32 <sipa> wumpus: you mean purecoin?
 858 2012-05-09 13:39:37 <Eliel> sipa: if you have some time on your hands, you could look at some of this stuff :) http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/simonpj/papers/stm/#beautiful
 859 2012-05-09 13:39:50 <wumpus> sipa: means you can skip corrupted blocks
 860 2012-05-09 13:39:51 <drizztbsd> btw cdb is the fastest one iirc
 861 2012-05-09 13:39:58 <sipa> wumpus: not skip, stop
 862 2012-05-09 13:40:08 <Eliel> wumpus: roconnor has already been writing one :)
 863 2012-05-09 13:40:08 <sipa> wumpus: if one block is corrupt, the next ones will be too
 864 2012-05-09 13:40:16 <wumpus> I don't even want one
 865 2012-05-09 13:40:22 <wumpus> it was just scary :)
 866 2012-05-09 13:41:44 <gmaxwell> wumpus: haskell bitcoin? You mean purecoin?  (darcs http://r6.ca/Purecoin)
 867 2012-05-09 13:41:47 <wumpus> sipa: not necessarily? you could do a partial recovery, recovering the uncorrupted private keys, though I agree it should not be done automatically
 868 2012-05-09 13:42:05 <gmaxwell> wumpus: yea, something for a recovery tool.
 869 2012-05-09 13:42:15 <sipa> wumpus: hmm
 870 2012-05-09 13:42:22 <sipa> maybe blocks also need a serial
 871 2012-05-09 13:42:24 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: luke-jr opened pull request 1240 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1240>
 872 2012-05-09 13:42:43 <sipa> so if a block doesn't match, you can skip the invalid part, and find the next attempt
 873 2012-05-09 13:42:55 <wumpus> error correction would be nice
 874 2012-05-09 13:43:02 <sipa> so it really becomes append-only, and not append-after-last-date
 875 2012-05-09 13:43:12 <sipa> let's keep reed-solomon for a future extension :)
 876 2012-05-09 13:43:16 <Eliel> wumpus: however, I'd think any reimplementation of bitcoin is going to be tough :)
 877 2012-05-09 13:43:26 <gmaxwell> The CRC gives you that with a sufficiently advanced recovery tool— though its limited by the fact that errors are likely to kill 512 bytes or 4096 bytes at a time.
 878 2012-05-09 13:43:29 <wumpus> yes... I'm not saying it should be in the first version, but it should be extendible
 879 2012-05-09 13:43:43 <wumpus> gmaxwell: yes, it'd need some more thinking
 880 2012-05-09 13:44:05 <gmaxwell> (really I think we should just keep around older versions of the file— wallet.1 wallet.2 ... wallet.n— becuase that should have good robustness properties on all filesystems)
 881 2012-05-09 13:44:07 <wumpus> it's already more than bdb does
 882 2012-05-09 13:44:40 <sipa> the problem seems to me that bdb tries to hard to provide durability
 883 2012-05-09 13:44:56 <sipa> and when you don't want durability, you also lose consistency in its format
 884 2012-05-09 13:45:46 <sipa> while for us, integrity is much more important than durability (the keypool now solves the durability problem)
 885 2012-05-09 13:46:04 <wumpus> gmaxwell: good idea, just maintain multiple copies of the file, poor man's (but very reliable) error correction :p
 886 2012-05-09 13:46:24 <luke-jr> sipa: blocks do have a serial O.o
 887 2012-05-09 13:46:41 <wumpus> we're talking about wallet database transaction blocks, not blockchain blocks
 888 2012-05-09 13:46:42 <sipa> luke-jr: talking about logdb, my wallet file implementation
 889 2012-05-09 13:46:48 <luke-jr> oh, not bitcoin blocks
 890 2012-05-09 13:46:54 <luke-jr> >_<
 891 2012-05-09 13:48:03 <sipa> there are some further optimizations possible though; like keeping the vfSpent vector outside of the wallet data in the file format
 892 2012-05-09 13:48:23 <sipa> because that gets changed frequently, and you don't want to rewrite the entire transaction every time
 893 2012-05-09 13:48:26 <wumpus> sipa: seems your idea to maintain a .bak and a .dat is good for more reasons
 894 2012-05-09 13:48:36 <wumpus> if it's only a cache there's no need to keep it even in the same file
 895 2012-05-09 13:48:44 <sipa> wumpus: it's eto's idea really
 896 2012-05-09 13:50:35 <wumpus> to keep the wallet size to a minimum (and minimize accesses), it should probably only contain information that cannot be reconstructed using other means
 897 2012-05-09 13:51:28 <sipa> it should contain transactions and keys
 898 2012-05-09 13:52:02 <wumpus> yes
 899 2012-05-09 13:52:24 <gmaxwell> meh, and accounts/labels/comments.
 900 2012-05-09 13:52:25 <ageis> i was trying to do a symbolic link and use the same blockchain files between linux and win32 on the same machine. didn't work =(
 901 2012-05-09 13:52:33 <wumpus> right
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 903 2012-05-09 13:53:19 <sipa> ageis: it should work, actually, as long as the bdb version is exactly the same, and the database/ subdir is also shared
 904 2012-05-09 13:53:53 <sipa> gmaxwell: glad we already moved settings out
 905 2012-05-09 13:54:16 <wumpus> hehe indeed, otherwise you'd end up with settings mutations intertwined
 906 2012-05-09 13:55:58 rdponticelli has joined
 907 2012-05-09 13:56:03 <sipa> that's not a problem, those are very small and infrequent typically
 908 2012-05-09 13:56:10 <sipa> but it'd just be dirty
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 910 2012-05-09 13:57:30 <wumpus> yeah it'd just be useless
 911 2012-05-09 13:57:58 <gmaxwell> wumpus: should I open an issue on the qt-console focus thing I mentioned so we don't forget it?
 912 2012-05-09 13:57:59 Garr255Playbook has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 913 2012-05-09 13:57:59 <wumpus> certainly with multiple wallets
 914 2012-05-09 13:58:17 <gmaxwell> hm
 915 2012-05-09 13:58:17 <gmaxwell> bitcoin in ThreadOpenConnections()
 916 2012-05-09 13:58:18 <gmaxwell> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'boost::interprocess::lock_exception' what():  boost::interprocess::lock_exception
 917 2012-05-09 13:58:28 <gmaxwell> (on shutdown in -qt)
 918 2012-05-09 13:59:16 <wumpus> gmaxwell: yes
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 920 2012-05-09 14:00:00 <gmaxwell>     if (mapArgs.count("-connect"))
 921 2012-05-09 14:00:01 <gmaxwell>         SoftSetBoolArg("-dnsseed", false);
 922 2012-05-09 14:00:20 <gmaxwell> Hm. I was complaining that sipa's onion stuff was performing proxydns when connect was set.
 923 2012-05-09 14:00:31 <gmaxwell> (but it seems that dnsseed already is disabled with connect)
 924 2012-05-09 14:00:44 <sipa> gmaxwell: maybe i changed that afterwards
 925 2012-05-09 14:02:06 <gmaxwell> sipa: nope.
 926 2012-05-09 14:02:45 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gmaxwell opened issue 1241 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1241>
 927 2012-05-09 14:02:49 <gmaxwell> but who knows perhaps it came in via some other commit.
 928 2012-05-09 14:03:19 <gmaxwell> No.. hm. it's there in the onioncat build I tested. Whatever, I'll figure it out later.
 929 2012-05-09 14:03:31 <sipa> gmaxwell: by the way, i put BIP32 on the wiki
 930 2012-05-09 14:06:01 <luke-jr> sipa: fwiw, it's missing Rationale, Backwards Compatibility, and Reference Implementation sections
 931 2012-05-09 14:06:10 <gmaxwell> I do wonder— if we're standardizing the 'master seed' step in the process if we shouldn't stipulate a reasonable strenghtening method there?
 932 2012-05-09 14:07:03 <sipa> luke-jr: i don't claim it's finished
 933 2012-05-09 14:07:16 <luke-jr> sipa: just saying, since you have stubs for other sections :P
 934 2012-05-09 14:07:20 <wumpus> also it'd be interesting to think about how we'd support multiple wallets in RPC... add an openwallet and closewallet call, and an extra argument wallet id to all calls (that work with the wallet) that defaults to the main wallet? or alternative versions of the commands that take the wallet argument?
 935 2012-05-09 14:07:39 <sipa> wumpus: or a selectwallet call
 936 2012-05-09 14:07:44 <luke-jr> wumpus: or just extend the account arguments
 937 2012-05-09 14:07:53 <wumpus> no statefulness please
 938 2012-05-09 14:07:54 <gmaxwell> sipa: thats awesome safe if you have multiple callers.
 939 2012-05-09 14:07:54 <luke-jr> ie, "a:b" refers to account "b" in wallet "a"
 940 2012-05-09 14:07:55 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Folko85 opened issue 1242 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1242>
 941 2012-05-09 14:08:10 <luke-jr> or perhaps "a/b" would be better syntax
 942 2012-05-09 14:08:16 <wumpus> that's only work if you'd add client sessions
 943 2012-05-09 14:08:23 <sipa> gmaxwell: bah, somehow i assumed an RPC session was a session
 944 2012-05-09 14:08:26 <sipa> gmaxwell: of course
 945 2012-05-09 14:08:42 <gmaxwell> multiple rpc ports!
 946 2012-05-09 14:09:01 <wumpus> though client sessions would be useful for notifications
 947 2012-05-09 14:09:08 <sipa> just put the session id in the HTTP headers
 948 2012-05-09 14:09:10 <sipa> oh...
 949 2012-05-09 14:09:30 <wumpus> still, I don't like the select idea, a client that supports multiple wallets would have to switch all the time
 950 2012-05-09 14:09:38 <sipa> ok
 951 2012-05-09 14:10:11 <luke-jr> so what's wrong with throwing it into the account choosing stuff? :p
 952 2012-05-09 14:10:22 <wumpus> luke-jr: no need to hardcode it into names (what if your account name has a '/' in it)
 953 2012-05-09 14:10:33 <jrmithdobbs> why would you use multiple wallets through the same instance?
 954 2012-05-09 14:10:41 <wumpus> why not?
 955 2012-05-09 14:10:46 <luke-jr> OK, how about using a JSON Object in place of the String?
 956 2012-05-09 14:10:51 <jrmithdobbs> why's it useful?
 957 2012-05-09 14:10:59 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: so you don't have 204.5 blockchains on your system
 958 2012-05-09 14:11:00 <wumpus> and it'd be a good testing ground until the UI for multiple wallets is finished
 959 2012-05-09 14:11:17 <jrmithdobbs> I can't think of a reason to have sep wallets that aren't security related and if it's security related they shouldn't be accessible by the same instance at the same time
 960 2012-05-09 14:11:20 <sipa> RPC support for multiple wallets isn't immediately necessary
 961 2012-05-09 14:11:32 <sipa> that's independent from actual multiple wallet support
 962 2012-05-09 14:11:34 <wumpus> ok, never mind then
 963 2012-05-09 14:11:48 <wumpus> you'll see it helps with testing
 964 2012-05-09 14:11:50 <jrmithdobbs> wumpus: i'm actually curious about the use case here
 965 2012-05-09 14:12:06 <jrmithdobbs> was an honest question, i can't think of how it'd be useful
 966 2012-05-09 14:12:07 <wumpus> otherwise you always need the ui to test with multiple wallets
 967 2012-05-09 14:13:48 <wumpus> I guess it could also be useful for a site that maintains different wallets for different users / purposes, or has read-only wallets to read the current status for some other wallet, etc...
 968 2012-05-09 14:14:02 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: anonymity related.
 969 2012-05-09 14:14:28 <wumpus> gmaxwell: yes
 970 2012-05-09 14:14:51 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: that's a poor hack around coin selection determinism for that, imho
 971 2012-05-09 14:15:08 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: or maybe s/determinism/specificity/ or both, w/e it's early
 972 2012-05-09 14:15:29 <wumpus> jrmithdobbs: no, it's the ideal, non-leaky abstraction for that
 973 2012-05-09 14:15:34 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: the UI for users keeping their coins seperate is insoluably hard. The advice will always be that if you want to keep accounts unlinked, keep them in seperate wallets.
 974 2012-05-09 14:15:40 <gmaxwell> what wumpus said.
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 976 2012-05-09 14:16:01 <gmaxwell> I'm a fan of things like coin control and automatic linking avoidance. ... but none of that replaces true isolation.
 977 2012-05-09 14:16:23 * sipa benchmarks BlueMatt's parallelcheck
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 981 2012-05-09 14:19:00 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: good enough answer i suppose, i'm completely indifferent to the topic of anonyminity so hadn't thought about that
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 983 2012-05-09 14:19:09 MrTiggr has joined
 984 2012-05-09 14:19:11 <jrmithdobbs> (well, re: bitcoin txns, anyways)
 985 2012-05-09 14:19:22 <sipa> anonimity and privacy are not the same thing
 986 2012-05-09 14:19:48 Ragnarok752 has joined
 987 2012-05-09 14:20:11 <gmaxwell> I do think multiple wallets is a little more towards anonymity than privacy, but I guess that depends on how good widely used snoopy tools like blockchain.info become.
 988 2012-05-09 14:21:16 <gmaxwell> (and I see things like automatic linking avoidance in coin selection to be more of a privacy thing)
 989 2012-05-09 14:21:32 <jrmithdobbs> i'm also not so sure the UI is an unsolvable problem, maybe for all use cases, but i think coin selection on sends and some simple stuff that'd help with it could be done well
 990 2012-05-09 14:22:26 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: sure, — but it's just pretty easy to screw up something like manual coin selection... it extra work that users will get bored with and lose vigilance with.
 991 2012-05-09 14:22:37 <wumpus> gmaxwell: right
 992 2012-05-09 14:23:49 <gmaxwell> (I like offering it though— it fosters deeper understanding of bitcoin in the tech crowd... and does allow you to improve your privacy, I just don't consider it a solution)
 993 2012-05-09 14:24:24 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: I think if you aim for 100% fine grained control of the selection process, you're right
 994 2012-05-09 14:24:33 <sipa> gmaxwell: exactly, i see coin selection more as educational than useful to beginning-advanced users
 995 2012-05-09 14:25:44 <gmaxwell> also, should you decide you really want input control ... you're currently forced into dangerous stunts like hacking your wallet with the python tools... or exporting private keys and using them in web wallets.
 996 2012-05-09 14:26:16 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: but say on the send dialog you just add, effectively, a viewing pane to contain a list and an add button, the viewer adds the "groups" as you add them with the add button which should pop up a selector that lists all unspent coins ... then the coin selection process only works within the given txns
 997 2012-05-09 14:26:23 <wumpus> there's no denying that it's useful to some users, and some usecases, but for most people having multiple isolated stashes of coins is simple and good enough... if you can do that with only one instance, and blockchain, the better
 998 2012-05-09 14:26:33 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: then it's a minor change logic-wise
 999 2012-05-09 14:26:46 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: have you seen the coincontrol patches?
1000 2012-05-09 14:26:57 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: no
1001 2012-05-09 14:27:41 <gmaxwell> In any case, I'd like to pull them during 0.7.0 though they'll need rebasing and a big testing effort... was sort of waiting until after the testnet reset goes in to even think about that.
1002 2012-05-09 14:27:58 DiabloD3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1003 2012-05-09 14:27:58 <sipa> hmm, pre-reading the old blk0001.dat file into ram surely speeds up loadblock... 1 minute for 86k blocks
1004 2012-05-09 14:28:22 <gmaxwell> sipa: hm, OS readahead should be doing something smart there...
1005 2012-05-09 14:28:30 <drizztbsd> sipa: you need ~2gb / ram
1006 2012-05-09 14:28:32 <drizztbsd> :P
1007 2012-05-09 14:28:53 <sipa> drizztbsd: that'd be 0.25 here
1008 2012-05-09 14:29:06 <sipa> (assuming / means division)
1009 2012-05-09 14:29:07 <jrmithdobbs> drizztbsd: it's 2012, the crap "nettop" thing i grabbed to play with a couple months ago has 4GB ;p
1010 2012-05-09 14:29:08 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
1011 2012-05-09 14:29:19 <drizztbsd> blk0001.dat is 1.3GB
1012 2012-05-09 14:29:42 <drizztbsd> jrmithdobbs: many people still uses 32 bit windows, with a limit of 3gb / application
1013 2012-05-09 14:29:44 <sipa> drizztbsd: yes, and i have 8 GiB
1014 2012-05-09 14:29:58 <sipa> also, i'm just talking about OS cache, not a ramdrive or anything
1015 2012-05-09 14:29:58 <wumpus> that's no reason to waste that much ram though :p I suppose you could read ahead less than the full file and still have the full speed gain
1016 2012-05-09 14:30:01 <gmaxwell> drizztbsd: good thing thats totally irrelevant.
1017 2012-05-09 14:30:17 <jrmithdobbs> drizztbsd: many people are going to start having to upgrade their hardware 10 years after they should have thanks to ms dragging their feet on their 64bit integration stuff, finally
1018 2012-05-09 14:30:24 <drizztbsd> (and PAE it's not really supported in 32bit xp)
1019 2012-05-09 14:30:26 fiddur has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1020 2012-05-09 14:30:42 <gmaxwell> hm. has someone been dos attacking bitcoin and we didn't notice? last month has had a higher chain growth rate by a fair amount.
1021 2012-05-09 14:30:42 <jrmithdobbs> drizztbsd: wah ancient hardware on old software can't run new software, news at 11
1022 2012-05-09 14:30:47 Turingi has joined
1023 2012-05-09 14:30:54 <sipa> gmaxwell: satoshidice?
1024 2012-05-09 14:31:01 <drizztbsd> many pre-installed (OEM) laptops come with 32bit Windows 7
1025 2012-05-09 14:31:42 <gmaxwell> hm. it's probably past time to do some testing on the 0001->0002 change.
1026 2012-05-09 14:31:56 <jrmithdobbs> ?
1027 2012-05-09 14:32:06 <sipa> gmaxwell: 1.9 GiB ought to be enough for everyone ;)
1028 2012-05-09 14:32:12 <jrmithdobbs> oh, blk000?
1029 2012-05-09 14:32:16 <sipa> yeah
1030 2012-05-09 14:32:17 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: there will be a blk0002.dat file.. yea..
1031 2012-05-09 14:32:26 <drizztbsd> gmaxwell: bdb only supports 2GB/file?
1032 2012-05-09 14:32:26 <gmaxwell> at just shy of 2gb.
1033 2012-05-09 14:32:39 <gmaxwell> drizztbsd: ... there is no BDB involved there.
1034 2012-05-09 14:32:46 <drizztbsd> and what is involved?
1035 2012-05-09 14:32:48 <jrmithdobbs> drizztbsd: no, there's code to split the blockchain into 2G files
1036 2012-05-09 14:32:55 danbri has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1037 2012-05-09 14:33:00 <drizztbsd> what is the reason?
1038 2012-05-09 14:33:00 <jrmithdobbs> blockchain isn't stored in bdb
1039 2012-05-09 14:33:00 <gmaxwell> drizztbsd: filesystems without support for files larger than 2g.
1040 2012-05-09 14:33:10 <sipa> satoshi developed on windows :)
1041 2012-05-09 14:33:10 <drizztbsd> oh fat32 :)
1042 2012-05-09 14:33:15 <jrmithdobbs> drizztbsd: so that it will be loadable on 32bit systems
1043 2012-05-09 14:33:16 danbri has joined
1044 2012-05-09 14:33:23 <jrmithdobbs> because what sipa said ya
1045 2012-05-09 14:33:33 <luke-jr> fat32 supports 4 GB :p
1046 2012-05-09 14:33:45 <drizztbsd> uhm right
1047 2012-05-09 14:34:02 <drizztbsd> LFS?
1048 2012-05-09 14:34:04 <jrmithdobbs> actually, rest of the code breaks horribley if the file gets over 2G right now on 32bit linux etc too not just win
1049 2012-05-09 14:34:15 <jrmithdobbs> as i found out with the >2G log files on a 32bit linux host
1050 2012-05-09 14:34:15 <sipa> // FAT32 filesize max 4GB, fseek and ftell max 2GB, so we must stay under 2GB
1051 2012-05-09 14:34:16 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: fine, fat16.
1052 2012-05-09 14:34:23 <sipa> is the comment in the source file
1053 2012-05-09 14:35:01 <drizztbsd> the problem is that we don't use large file supports :P
1054 2012-05-09 14:35:17 <sipa> sometimes i'm surprised about the code; some parts clearly are written with future growth in mind (like this), while others make me think this was really just a prototype implementation
1055 2012-05-09 14:35:22 <drizztbsd> or maybe windows does not support it
1056 2012-05-09 14:35:25 <gmaxwell> There is no problem.
1057 2012-05-09 14:35:37 <gmaxwell> Splitting the files is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
1058 2012-05-09 14:35:56 <gmaxwell> God knows fseek in very large files is probably slow on some file systems in any case.
1059 2012-05-09 14:36:04 <sipa> ;;calc 0x7F000000
1060 2012-05-09 14:36:04 <gribble> 2130706432
1061 2012-05-09 14:36:10 <sipa> 2.13 GB
1062 2012-05-09 14:36:11 davout has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1063 2012-05-09 14:36:18 <sipa> ;;calc 0x7F000000 / 2**32
1064 2012-05-09 14:36:18 <gribble> 0.49609375
1065 2012-05-09 14:36:25 <sipa> eh?
1066 2012-05-09 14:36:34 <sipa> oh
1067 2012-05-09 14:36:36 <sipa> ;;calc 0x7F000000 / 2**30
1068 2012-05-09 14:36:36 <gribble> 1.984375
1069 2012-05-09 14:40:10 davout_ has joined
1070 2012-05-09 14:45:48 p0s has joined
1071 2012-05-09 14:50:58 Tiggr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1072 2012-05-09 14:53:31 Garr255Playbook has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1073 2012-05-09 14:55:11 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1074 2012-05-09 14:56:01 davout_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1075 2012-05-09 14:57:27 Tiggr has joined
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1077 2012-05-09 14:59:56 <drizztbsd> is anyone using bitvps?
1078 2012-05-09 15:02:30 anonyminer has joined
1079 2012-05-09 15:02:49 <anonyminer> how are you doing?
1080 2012-05-09 15:03:36 <anonyminer> I am having a Huge Problem with the new updates for bitcoin ever since the wallet has been updated I have been getting a WARNING
1081 2012-05-09 15:03:55 <drizztbsd> which warning?
1082 2012-05-09 15:04:11 <anonyminer> WARNING: Displayed transactions may not be correct! You may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade.
1083 2012-05-09 15:04:17 <anonyminer> Please help me fix this
1084 2012-05-09 15:04:22 <sipa> how many blocks do you have already?
1085 2012-05-09 15:04:32 <anonyminer> I lost all my bitcoins
1086 2012-05-09 15:04:34 imsaguy has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1087 2012-05-09 15:04:43 <sipa> you did no lose anything unless you deleted you wallet.dat
1088 2012-05-09 15:04:48 <anonyminer> 121176
1089 2012-05-09 15:04:54 <sipa> is that number increasing?
1090 2012-05-09 15:05:20 <anonyminer> I accidently deleted my new wallet.dat... I still have a backup of my wallet.dat
1091 2012-05-09 15:05:24 <anonyminer> NO
1092 2012-05-09 15:05:30 <anonyminer> its Frozen
1093 2012-05-09 15:05:31 <sipa> how long has it been that way?
1094 2012-05-09 15:05:35 <anonyminer> and this error came up
1095 2012-05-09 15:06:03 <anonyminer> It keeps doing this even on the old version I had before. 0.6.0
1096 2012-05-09 15:06:17 <anonyminer> I went back to 0.6.0 and its still the same error
1097 2012-05-09 15:06:23 <sipa> can you tell me how long it has been frozen
1098 2012-05-09 15:06:36 <anonyminer> I want to use the new version but it won't work :(
1099 2012-05-09 15:06:38 <drizztbsd> debug.log can be useful
1100 2012-05-09 15:07:00 <sipa> anonyminer: and complaining won't help; if you answer my question, we can help
1101 2012-05-09 15:07:45 <anonyminer> Ok I answered your question this keeps freezing everytime it gets to this point :(
1102 2012-05-09 15:07:59 <sipa> you didn't answer my question :)
1103 2012-05-09 15:08:05 <anonyminer> Yes I did
1104 2012-05-09 15:08:15 <sipa> i asked how long it has been frozen
1105 2012-05-09 15:08:17 Tiggr has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1106 2012-05-09 15:08:26 <gmaxwell> ;;bc,tslb
1107 2012-05-09 15:08:27 <gribble> Time since last block: 21 minutes and 16 seconds
1108 2012-05-09 15:08:31 <anonyminer> It just froze before I went into chat with you guys.... But this is not the first time this happened
1109 2012-05-09 15:08:40 <twmz_> "how long" has an answer in units of seconds, minutes, hours, days, etc...
1110 2012-05-09 15:08:57 <sipa> anonyminer: i know it is not the first time, but that's not what i'd like to know
1111 2012-05-09 15:09:00 <anonyminer> 5 minutes ago
1112 2012-05-09 15:09:06 <anonyminer> but this is not the first time :(
1113 2012-05-09 15:09:10 <sipa> ok, just wait
1114 2012-05-09 15:09:13 <sipa> and keep the client open
1115 2012-05-09 15:09:25 <drizztbsd> 5 minutes is not so much time
1116 2012-05-09 15:09:37 <sipa> if it stalls for an hour, you may have a problem
1117 2012-05-09 15:09:57 <anonyminer> common guys I have left it on over night and it still says this... I restarted it and this is where it freezes
1118 2012-05-09 15:10:05 Tiggr has joined
1119 2012-05-09 15:10:13 <sipa> ah, that's something else
1120 2012-05-09 15:10:22 Tiggr has quit (Client Quit)
1121 2012-05-09 15:10:47 <gmaxwell> anonyminer: I dont understand that sequence of events. Why did you restart it?
1122 2012-05-09 15:11:37 <anonyminer> Please someone actually try to help me... I lost 0.99 bitcoins its not a big deal its just weird that this glitch is not being taken care of... you guys keep saying its on my end.. I know for a fact its not my end... I turned my computer on 3 days ago to find that this error was showing in my BitCoin Client
1123 2012-05-09 15:11:39 <anonyminer> WARNING: Displayed transactions may not be correct! You may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade.
1124 2012-05-09 15:12:00 <gmaxwell> We can't help you if you evade every question we ask.
1125 2012-05-09 15:12:09 <anonyminer> I restarted it because it was still frozen gmaxwell
1126 2012-05-09 15:12:21 <anonyminer> it froze hours ago
1127 2012-05-09 15:12:43 <anonyminer> and this is 5th time I have got this error message both on the old version
1128 2012-05-09 15:12:49 <anonyminer> and on the new 0.6.2
1129 2012-05-09 15:13:01 <gmaxwell> How did you know it was frozen?
1130 2012-05-09 15:13:25 <gmaxwell> Are you connecting via a proxy or using the -connect option?
1131 2012-05-09 15:13:39 <anonyminer> I wrote down the number of blocks... No Proxy
1132 2012-05-09 15:13:50 denisx has joined
1133 2012-05-09 15:14:03 <anonyminer> when it gets to 121176 it freezes and this error comes up WARNING: Displayed transactions may not be correct! You may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade.
1134 2012-05-09 15:14:15 <gmaxwell> What do you mean by "when it gets to 121176" ?
1135 2012-05-09 15:14:19 <anonyminer> the progress bar vanishes at this time
1136 2012-05-09 15:14:20 tcatm has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1137 2012-05-09 15:14:24 tcatm has joined
1138 2012-05-09 15:14:25 tcatm has quit (Changing host)
1139 2012-05-09 15:14:25 tcatm has joined
1140 2012-05-09 15:14:31 <anonyminer> when the number of downloaded Blocks
1141 2012-05-09 15:14:45 <gmaxwell> Are you continually deleting your blockchain?
1142 2012-05-09 15:15:56 <anonyminer> No
1143 2012-05-09 15:16:11 <anonyminer> I just deleted it yesterday when the error came up WARNING: Displayed transactions may not be correct! You may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade.
1144 2012-05-09 15:16:45 <anonyminer> Common please simply explain what this means and maybe I can understand this better... it says nodes may need to upgrade
1145 2012-05-09 15:17:05 <anonyminer> does this mean that people need to upgrade to version 0.6.2 or what?
1146 2012-05-09 15:17:07 <sipa> anonyminer: it means it detected an invalid chain of blocks that is longer than your bes block
1147 2012-05-09 15:17:18 <gmaxwell> So after you deleted it yesturday what happened?
1148 2012-05-09 15:17:26 <anonyminer> I Started over
1149 2012-05-09 15:17:42 <sipa> so you quit the client, and deleted... what exactly?
1150 2012-05-09 15:17:48 <anonyminer> My Computer Hard Drive Malfuctioned yesterday and thank god for flash drives
1151 2012-05-09 15:18:14 <sipa> if you have a flaky hard drive, i'm sure you'll get errors
1152 2012-05-09 15:18:26 <anonyminer> I deleted everything except wallet.dat because my pc screwed up... but this error was coming up before my pc screwed up
1153 2012-05-09 15:19:16 <sipa> hard drives don't always die suddenly, there may be silect corruptions for a while before
1154 2012-05-09 15:19:22 <anonyminer> Cathing up... Downloaded 121176 of 179440 blocks of transaction history Last Recieved Block was Generated 374 Days Ago
1155 2012-05-09 15:19:25 <gmaxwell> anonyminer: if your hard drive is failing then you may see random errors like this. You should back up your important data right away and get your hard drive replaced.
1156 2012-05-09 15:19:41 <anonyminer> This is what comes up when I mouseover my bitcoin client
1157 2012-05-09 15:19:44 <sipa> and since bitcoin writes and reads a lot of data, it may make existting errors much more visible
1158 2012-05-09 15:20:02 <drizztbsd> you can try to do a pass with a SMART analyzer
1159 2012-05-09 15:20:03 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: laanwj opened pull request 1243 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1243>
1160 2012-05-09 15:20:14 <anonyminer> My Hard drive is fixed common guys this happened before my hard drive has issues stop blaming it on my pc
1161 2012-05-09 15:20:27 <sipa> did you replace it?
1162 2012-05-09 15:20:31 <anonyminer> I know for a fact its a error or glitch
1163 2012-05-09 15:20:36 <anonyminer> in bitcoin
1164 2012-05-09 15:20:50 <gmaxwell> Since you know this, why are you talking to us?
1165 2012-05-09 15:21:15 <sipa> if your hard drive already had glitches, and you didn't replace it, it's sure still to be flaky
1166 2012-05-09 15:21:46 <gmaxwell> Bitcoin depends on the hard drive being completely reliable, it if misbehaves the client will surely fail or get stuck.
1167 2012-05-09 15:21:54 <gmaxwell> (in exactly the way that yours is)
1168 2012-05-09 15:21:59 <sipa> if bitcoin read corrupted block data from your disk, some incoming blocks may fail to validate
1169 2012-05-09 15:22:02 <anonyminer> Because your one brain... not everyone in this room is going to think the same... Gavin said something out rebuilding the DB
1170 2012-05-09 15:22:03 <Eliel> sipa: unless it was just a software glitch anyway, most people can't tell the difference.
1171 2012-05-09 15:22:36 <gmaxwell> anonyminer: you erased everything. It didn't recover.
1172 2012-05-09 15:23:00 <gmaxwell> This is strongly suggestive that there is nothing wrong with bitcoin.  (since it starts up fresh okay for everyone else)
1173 2012-05-09 15:23:07 <anonyminer> I have the Wallet.dat on a flash drive from a backup... Now I want to bring that backup back how do i do it
1174 2012-05-09 15:23:34 <gmaxwell> you copy the file into the appdata directory— but since your client is not working and is not current it doesn't matter.
1175 2012-05-09 15:23:54 imsaguy has joined
1176 2012-05-09 15:23:55 knotwork_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1177 2012-05-09 15:24:13 <Eliel> anonyminer: my suggestion would be to erase everything related to bitcoin from the hard drive, then reinstall newest bitcoin, let it sync up. If it gets that far, then shut it down and copy the wallet backup to the system.
1178 2012-05-09 15:24:28 <sipa> Eliel: he already did that
1179 2012-05-09 15:24:33 <Eliel> anonyminer: even better if you could do it on another system.
1180 2012-05-09 15:24:35 <sipa> and he already experienced disk errors
1181 2012-05-09 15:24:39 <anonyminer> I don't have the current client... I tried the current client and I get the same error at exactly the same block number downloaded 121176
1182 2012-05-09 15:24:40 TimothyA has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1183 2012-05-09 15:24:44 <gmaxwell> sipa: maybe.
1184 2012-05-09 15:25:05 <sipa> the fact that it is exactly the same block is strange
1185 2012-05-09 15:25:30 <anonyminer> Ok Let me try what Eliel has suggested that is a great suggestion...
1186 2012-05-09 15:25:52 <sipa> anonyminer: you already tried deleting the block chain, no?
1187 2012-05-09 15:25:59 <gmaxwell> anonyminer: search your whole computer for blk0001.dat files— just to make sure you're deleting the right thing.
1188 2012-05-09 15:26:17 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
1189 2012-05-09 15:26:24 <Eliel> anonyminer: because, since this error keeps repeating, it leads me to believe there is something on the system you didn't delete that relates to this.
1190 2012-05-09 15:26:37 <sipa> also delete blkindex.dat, and files whose name starts with __ in the same directory, and the database subdirectory of it
1191 2012-05-09 15:26:39 <anonyminer> @sipa ya see what I mean its very weird it has been exactly the same block number like this everytime even when I removed everything from my Partition that had Bitcoin files in it :(
1192 2012-05-09 15:27:25 <gmaxwell> anonyminer: Is it possible that you had two copies and they are really being stored someplace else?
1193 2012-05-09 15:28:35 <anonyminer> can't I just download blkindex.dat from someone who has it fully updated :)
1194 2012-05-09 15:28:46 <anonyminer> that might work no??
1195 2012-05-09 15:28:56 <sipa> if your hardware is flaky, that is likely to cause the exact same problem
1196 2012-05-09 15:28:59 <anonyminer> No I don't have two copies
1197 2012-05-09 15:29:40 <gmaxwell> If you're unable to fully sync it on your own then it will just fail agin.
1198 2012-05-09 15:29:44 <gmaxwell> again*
1199 2012-05-09 15:30:07 RainbowDashh has quit (Quit: RainbowDashh)
1200 2012-05-09 15:30:13 <anonyminer> Ok Deleted Everything Related to BITCOIN and have backed up the wallet.dat in the seperate place... Starting the Block Download again
1201 2012-05-09 15:30:20 <anonyminer> ITs at 8% now
1202 2012-05-09 15:30:38 <sipa> which OS is this, by the way?
1203 2012-05-09 15:30:46 <anonyminer> Lets see when that error comes up again it will be exactly the same block number if it does
1204 2012-05-09 15:30:50 <anonyminer> Windows 7
1205 2012-05-09 15:31:45 <gmaxwell> 1557 connections on one of my local nodes' logs today— no nodes at height 121175-121177.
1206 2012-05-09 15:32:16 <sipa> hmm, i should put that information in seeds.txt as well
1207 2012-05-09 15:32:33 <Eliel> by the way, I wonder if the main client should have the feature to clean out all data files (perhaps excluding wallet.dat) to make it easier to recover from errors?
1208 2012-05-09 15:33:20 * sipa wonders about not publishing seeds.txt
1209 2012-05-09 15:34:02 <luke-jr> …
1210 2012-05-09 15:34:16 <luke-jr> then I'd have to do it
1211 2012-05-09 15:34:20 <gmaxwell> Eliel: users who are more in need of xanax than tech support may over eagerly hit the button and frustrate themselves.
1212 2012-05-09 15:35:06 <sipa> luke-jr: i know the information is almost-public anyway, but it's just such an easy way for finding vulnerable nodes if an attack was found
1213 2012-05-09 15:37:20 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1214 2012-05-09 15:38:08 chrisb__ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1215 2012-05-09 15:38:44 <anonyminer> 51%
1216 2012-05-09 15:39:07 <wumpus> Eliel: hah, at least you thought of excluding wallet.dat, otherwise it's a recipe for total disaster
1217 2012-05-09 15:39:24 Clipse has quit (Quit: Clipse)
1218 2012-05-09 15:41:41 <Eliel> wumpus: naturally :)
1219 2012-05-09 15:42:51 localhost has joined
1220 2012-05-09 15:42:58 Clipse has joined
1221 2012-05-09 15:43:15 <gmaxwell> I guess having a function would make it less likely that the user would delete the wallet.dat in the process.. or delete things without a clean shutdown.
1222 2012-05-09 15:45:44 merde has joined
1223 2012-05-09 15:48:23 <wumpus> I guess so... though most of the problems with the transient state (like a corrupted addr.dat) shouldn't even cause a fatal error, but simple a re-seeding
1224 2012-05-09 15:48:30 <luke-jr> hmm, blocks aren't checked that their transactions are valid until after writing to disk etc? :/
1225 2012-05-09 15:49:27 <sipa> luke-jr: double spending and signatures are only verified afterwards
1226 2012-05-09 15:49:35 <wumpus> if the block chain is corrupted, fine, just re-download it
1227 2012-05-09 15:49:57 <wumpus> unless the wallet is corrupted, it doesn't need the user in the loop at all
1228 2012-05-09 15:50:12 <gmaxwell> wumpus: though corruption in things which should never become corrupt may be indicating a more serious error.
1229 2012-05-09 15:50:21 toffoo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1230 2012-05-09 15:50:31 <Eliel> wumpus: doesn't the structure of the blockchain allow for only redownloading damaged parts a lot of the time?
1231 2012-05-09 15:50:40 <wumpus> yes it might, but it might also be simply an unclean shutdown or power failure
1232 2012-05-09 15:50:43 <luke-jr> sipa: would be nice, if I could check the basic validity of a block in CreateNewBlock XD
1233 2012-05-09 15:52:06 <wumpus> Eliel: I suppose so, but that's also more bug-prone than simply starting over with a fresh slate
1234 2012-05-09 15:52:30 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
1235 2012-05-09 15:52:32 <sipa> Eliel: you'd at least need a way to prune the invalid parts
1236 2012-05-09 15:52:36 <sipa> which we don't have right now
1237 2012-05-09 15:53:33 Raziel_ has joined
1238 2012-05-09 15:53:35 * Eliel wonders if it would make sense to keep block headers and transactions in separate files.
1239 2012-05-09 15:53:48 <sipa> Eliel: actually, they are
1240 2012-05-09 15:53:51 <wumpus> for the block log files you could just truncate at the place it starts to go awry I guess
1241 2012-05-09 15:54:22 <sipa> wumpus: blk0001.dat + blkindex.dat define a tree structure; if some part is invalid, you need to prune an entire branch
1242 2012-05-09 15:54:33 <sipa> but that branch may be intermingled with other branches
1243 2012-05-09 15:54:59 RainbowDashh has joined
1244 2012-05-09 15:55:38 <gmaxwell> the blk0001.. sure.. but then you still have to rebuild the indexes entirely.
1245 2012-05-09 15:55:56 <wumpus> it saves part of the download, not the rebuilding
1246 2012-05-09 15:56:11 RainbowDashh is now known as Rabbit67890
1247 2012-05-09 15:56:26 <sipa> rebuild probably takes longer than redownload, if done completely separately
1248 2012-05-09 15:56:32 <wumpus> then again, as I said, I prefer starting with a blank slate
1249 2012-05-09 15:56:32 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1250 2012-05-09 15:56:50 <gmaxwell> well.. saving some bandwidth is nice.
1251 2012-05-09 15:57:01 t7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1252 2012-05-09 15:57:07 <sipa> gmaxwell: have you tried BlueMatt's parallelcheck branch? it doesn't seem to use the parallellism for loadblocks, though
1253 2012-05-09 15:57:39 <gmaxwell> (we have users on satellite links and such— a full sync is a nontrivial burden for them)
1254 2012-05-09 15:57:41 <wumpus> corruption should be a rare thing, better spend the time at making the wallet better-protected against disasters
1255 2012-05-09 15:57:48 <wumpus> than recovering faster...
1256 2012-05-09 15:57:48 <gmaxwell> sipa: I tried a really early version that didn't do much.
1257 2012-05-09 15:58:18 <gmaxwell> wumpus: agreed there, and we have loadblocks which can be used to save the bandwidth.
1258 2012-05-09 15:58:31 <wumpus> users on sattelite links should ideally be using lightweight clients
1259 2012-05-09 15:58:56 <wumpus> yep
1260 2012-05-09 15:58:59 <gmaxwell> wumpus: there is a fairly sizable miner on one for example.
1261 2012-05-09 15:59:10 <gmaxwell> well. for some definition of fairly.
1262 2012-05-09 15:59:40 <wumpus> yes that's why I said ideally... there's reasons not to at the moment
1263 2012-05-09 16:01:28 <jgarzik> sipa: (scrolling back)  you were talking about putting block height into seeds.txt?  why not just exclude nodes from the list, that are not up-to-date...
1264 2012-05-09 16:01:39 <jgarzik> unless I misunderstood the conversation
1265 2012-05-09 16:01:50 * jgarzik is using seeds.txt temporarily for bitseed.xf2.org
1266 2012-05-09 16:01:56 <jgarzik> until dynamic gadgetry is up and running
1267 2012-05-09 16:03:10 <sipa> ;;later tell BlueMatt in parallelcheck, i tried using ->EmitBlock(block,false) in LoadExternalBlockFile, but that either deadlocks or segfaults
1268 2012-05-09 16:03:10 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
1269 2012-05-09 16:05:45 sirk390 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1270 2012-05-09 16:08:56 <sipa> jgarzik: for some purposes, knowing nodes with few blocks is more interesting
1271 2012-05-09 16:10:05 Rabbit67890 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1272 2012-05-09 16:10:06 knotwork has joined
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1275 2012-05-09 16:10:57 <gmaxwell> For seeding purposes you don't need to know it— but if the seed collector can gather some network health data as a side effect then thats great.
1276 2012-05-09 16:13:23 <luke-jr> wow
1277 2012-05-09 16:13:45 <luke-jr> just found a pretty ugly bug in getmemorypool/getwork
1278 2012-05-09 16:13:59 <luke-jr> things have to be pretty broken already to hit it, though
1279 2012-05-09 16:14:10 shurnormal has joined
1280 2012-05-09 16:14:22 <luke-jr> if CreateNewBlock fails for any reason, the next call skips it and dereferences the null pointer
1281 2012-05-09 16:16:00 p0s- has joined
1282 2012-05-09 16:16:01 sirk390 has joined
1283 2012-05-09 16:17:24 <gmaxwell> oh well, at least that will crash cleanly.
1284 2012-05-09 16:17:45 knotwork has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1285 2012-05-09 16:19:23 p0s has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1286 2012-05-09 16:20:09 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: if CreateNewBlock can throw an exception (I don't see how it can, right now), you could get a deleted pointer instead
1287 2012-05-09 16:23:47 t7 has joined
1288 2012-05-09 16:26:08 <luke-jr> well this is silly. CreateNewBlock builds the merkle root, but it's never used without changing it :P
1289 2012-05-09 16:29:11 graingert has joined
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1294 2012-05-09 16:31:12 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: laanwj opened issue 1244 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1244>
1295 2012-05-09 16:32:56 <sipa> ok, seeds.txt now contains last seen number of blocks as well
1296 2012-05-09 16:33:10 <sipa> just the value from the version message though, no verification
1297 2012-05-09 16:33:36 anonyminer has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1298 2012-05-09 16:34:01 ThomasV has joined
1299 2012-05-09 16:35:04 minimoose has joined
1300 2012-05-09 16:35:21 * Eliel wonders if anonyminer got it working now.
1301 2012-05-09 16:37:53 TiggrBot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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1307 2012-05-09 16:51:00 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
1308 2012-05-09 16:52:13 anonyminer has joined
1309 2012-05-09 16:52:21 <anonyminer> Hi
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1314 2012-05-09 16:59:44 <twmz_> sipa: my OS X machine is now as setup as I can do via ssh.  I just need to install the QT Creator piece when I get home.  Let me know if there is a possible fix you want me to try for the cpu busy issue.
1315 2012-05-09 17:02:07 Diapolo has joined
1316 2012-05-09 17:02:40 <Diapolo> hi guys
1317 2012-05-09 17:03:14 <Diapolo> wumpus: Have you got an idea how long it takes for Transifex to fetch the new master file?
1318 2012-05-09 17:03:34 MiningBuddy has quit (Quit: ( Quit ))
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1321 2012-05-09 17:04:42 topace has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1323 2012-05-09 17:05:49 <anonyminer> Hi
1324 2012-05-09 17:05:59 <anonyminer> I am still having issues and they are getting more serious
1325 2012-05-09 17:06:51 <anonyminer> I removed everything and backed up wallet.dat... Downloaded a Fresh Copy of the Current Blockchain and I am getting the error I got before I formatted my PC the other day
1326 2012-05-09 17:07:34 <anonyminer> EXCEPTION: 11DbException        Db::get: Not enough space        C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\bitcoin-qt.exe in Runaway exception         EnvShutdown exception: DbEnv::close: Invalid argument (22)
1327 2012-05-09 17:08:10 <anonyminer> I know I have more than enough space on my Hard Drive it has 90 GB FREE
1328 2012-05-09 17:08:17 topace has joined
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1332 2012-05-09 17:10:12 <Diapolo> What filesystem are you using? Have you correct file permissions?
1333 2012-05-09 17:13:09 <sipa> twmz_: in util.h there is a macro called WAIT, with a while loop inside; can you put a "Sleep(1);" inside the loop body?
1334 2012-05-09 17:13:50 <jgarzik> anonyminer: something else is going on, since others are not reporting this same issue.  Is this Windows XP?  Vista?  7?
1335 2012-05-09 17:16:18 <Diapolo> sipa: to not consume too much CPU-Cycles? good idea
1336 2012-05-09 17:17:09 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: luke-jr opened pull request 1245 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1245>
1337 2012-05-09 17:17:20 <drizztbsd> Sleep(0) also works under windows
1338 2012-05-09 17:17:20 knotwork has joined
1339 2012-05-09 17:17:25 <drizztbsd> classic yield
1340 2012-05-09 17:18:36 anonyminer has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1341 2012-05-09 17:18:46 merde has quit ()
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1344 2012-05-09 17:20:58 <sipa> Diapolo: it does not use any cpu cycles, except on OSX, it seem
1345 2012-05-09 17:21:39 <Diapolo> sipa: but an endless loop normaly does this, even on Windows
1346 2012-05-09 17:24:23 agath has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1349 2012-05-09 17:27:02 <sipa> Diapolo: there is a condition variable wait inside that body too, which normally causes a sleep until the condition is satisfied
1350 2012-05-09 17:27:15 <wumpus> Diapolo: it waits on a condition, so normally it only reaches the while() when the thread is waken up
1351 2012-05-09 17:27:18 <sipa> but this doesnt seem to work on osx
1352 2012-05-09 17:27:21 <wumpus> right
1353 2012-05-09 17:27:34 <wumpus> Diapolo: I have no idea about transifex btw
1354 2012-05-09 17:28:20 <sipa> can someone ask gavin about the condition wait? i have to go
1355 2012-05-09 17:28:59 <Diapolo> wumpus: I was a bit worried, because the merge was quite a few hours ago.
1356 2012-05-09 17:32:19 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: luke-jr opened pull request 1246 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1246>
1357 2012-05-09 17:34:55 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
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1359 2012-05-09 17:39:56 <gavinandresen> sipa:  I'll ask.
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1366 2012-05-09 17:51:18 <twmz_> sipa: yes, I will try that tonight
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1368 2012-05-09 17:51:52 <sipa> gavinandresen: people report 100% cpu usage on osx with  0.6.1+, reason is the condition variable wait in WAIT seems to be a noop sometimes; can you confirm the bug and test whether adding a Sleep(1); inside helps
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1372 2012-05-09 17:53:16 <gavinandresen> sure.... let me fix the typo in makefile.osx that just tripped me up...
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1375 2012-05-09 17:53:41 <drizztbsd> why does bitcoind need -ldl?
1376 2012-05-09 17:54:53 <gavinandresen> hmmm, and the error in util.cpp:  util.cpp:822: error: ‘filesystem’ has not been declared
1377 2012-05-09 17:57:04 <gavinandresen> drizztbsd: where to you see -ldl ?
1378 2012-05-09 17:57:12 <Diapolo> gavinandresen: Which line?
1379 2012-05-09 17:57:14 <drizztbsd> makefile.unix
1380 2012-05-09 17:57:30 <drizztbsd> I'm asking that because on *bsd I always have to delete that line
1381 2012-05-09 17:57:42 <drizztbsd> (bsd doesn't have -ldl)
1382 2012-05-09 17:57:42 <gavinandresen> I don't see it in git HEAD makefile.unix
1383 2012-05-09 17:57:54 <drizztbsd> it's -l dl
1384 2012-05-09 17:57:59 <drizztbsd> but it's the same
1385 2012-05-09 17:58:01 <drizztbsd> :P
1386 2012-05-09 17:58:06 <drizztbsd> (space)
1387 2012-05-09 17:58:07 <Diapolo> LOL forget my question ^^
1388 2012-05-09 17:59:19 <Diapolo> gavinandresen: just add boost:: in front of filesystem this should fix it
1389 2012-05-09 17:59:43 <gavinandresen> i changed the filesytem:: to fs:: (and just committed the fixes)
1390 2012-05-09 17:59:49 <Diapolo> alright
1391 2012-05-09 18:01:13 <gavinandresen> drizztbsd: i don't know what libdl is.  Probably openssl or bdb or boost or miniupnp needs it on Linux
1392 2012-05-09 18:03:04 <wumpus> libdl is the dynamic linker (provides dlopen and such), no idea who needs it though
1393 2012-05-09 18:03:23 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: you only specify it if the program you are linking needs it
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1395 2012-05-09 18:03:32 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: libraries have their own deps…
1396 2012-05-09 18:03:55 <drizztbsd> gavinandresen: it compiles under linux without that line (archlinux)
1397 2012-05-09 18:04:06 <drizztbsd> g++ -O2 -pthread -Wall -Wextra -Wformat -Wformat-security -Wno-unused-parameter -g  -I/home/drizzt/dev/sources/bitcoin/src -I/home/drizzt/dev/sources/bitcoin/src/obj -DUSE_UPNP=0 -DHAVE_BUILD_INFO -fno-stack-protector -fstack-protector-all -Wstack-protector -Wl,-z,relro -Wl,-z,now -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -o bitcoind obj/version.o obj/checkpoints.o obj/netbase.o obj/addrman.o obj/crypter.o obj/key.o obj/db.o obj/init.o obj/irc.o obj/
1398 2012-05-09 18:04:08 <drizztbsd> keystore.o obj/main.o obj/net.o obj/protocol.o obj/bitcoinrpc.o obj/rpcdump.o obj/script.o obj/util.o obj/wallet.o obj/walletdb.o obj/noui.o   -Wl,-Bdynamic -l boost_system -l boost_filesystem -l boost_program_options -l boost_thread -l db_cxx -l ssl -l crypto -l miniupnpc -Wl,-Bdynamic -l z -l pthread
1399 2012-05-09 18:05:38 <denisx> sipa: I just wanted to ask if you did something about the 100% problem. nice to see you are on it
1400 2012-05-09 18:08:33 <wumpus> hmm I remember this -ldl was added for a reason
1401 2012-05-09 18:09:08 <drizztbsd> wumpus: maybe that reason is gone
1402 2012-05-09 18:09:18 <drizztbsd> by the way I need to go
1403 2012-05-09 18:09:19 <drizztbsd> bye
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1405 2012-05-09 18:10:13 <wumpus> I wouldn't just assume that
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1407 2012-05-09 18:13:55 <wumpus> though it appears that bitcoin-qt.pro doesn't include it
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1412 2012-05-09 18:20:14 <wumpus> the dynamic (default) compiles, links and works fine without it on ubuntu 12.04 without the -l z and -l dl
1413 2012-05-09 18:20:19 <wumpus> however, the static build needs it
1414 2012-05-09 18:21:20 <wumpus> (seems - crypto)
1415 2012-05-09 18:21:37 <wumpus> libcrypto uses both of them, and when linking statically they need to be linked explicitly
1416 2012-05-09 18:23:27 <wumpus> they could be put in the STATIC condition
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1444 2012-05-09 19:17:07 <luke-jr> ;;bc,blocks
1445 2012-05-09 19:17:07 <gribble> 179467
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1460 2012-05-09 19:37:08 <gavinandresen> sipa: Sleep(1) in the WAIT macro fixes the 100% cpu issue on my Mac.
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1467 2012-05-09 19:42:28 <jgarzik> sipa gavinandresen: seems more appropriate to use a semaphore, initialized to the desired number of outbound connections?
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1470 2012-05-09 19:43:37 <sipa> gavinandresen: and Sleep(0) ?
1471 2012-05-09 19:43:55 <gavinandresen> sipa: one sec, I'll recompile and try Sleep(0)
1472 2012-05-09 19:43:59 <sipa> jgarzik: true
1473 2012-05-09 19:44:56 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: the whole fShutdown thing is broken... I started doing some work to port to boost::thread, the right answer would be to interrupt the IO threads using the boost::threads method
1474 2012-05-09 19:45:58 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: or thread->yield()
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1476 2012-05-09 19:46:09 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: agree we fShutdown
1477 2012-05-09 19:46:14 <jgarzik> *agreed re
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1480 2012-05-09 19:50:20 <gavinandresen> by the way... I'm getting new warnings compiling git HEAD:  https://gist.github.com/2648314
1481 2012-05-09 19:50:45 <gavinandresen> compiler is:  i686-apple-darwin10-llvm-g++-4.2 (GCC) 4.2.1 (Based on Apple Inc. build 5658) (LLVM build 2335.6)
1482 2012-05-09 19:51:12 <gavinandresen> sipa:  Sleep(0) is also happy.
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1484 2012-05-09 19:52:08 <gavinandresen> (well, seems to use about 1% CPU)
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1486 2012-05-09 19:56:03 <sipa> gavinandresen: ok, so we just need something to yield the thread
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1488 2012-05-09 19:58:16 * luke-jr seems to be the only one producing clients with UAs besides Bitcoin-Qt/bitcoind <.<
1489 2012-05-09 19:58:23 <luke-jr> at least on sipa's seeds.txt
1490 2012-05-09 19:58:42 <luke-jr> surprised there's no BitcoinJ or such
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1492 2012-05-09 19:59:44 <sipa> luke-jr: it ignores nodes without the full node service
1493 2012-05-09 19:59:51 <luke-jr> ah
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1497 2012-05-09 20:01:31 <luke-jr> sipa: is there any reason -loadblock can't run after the wallet is loaded? <.<
1498 2012-05-09 20:02:15 <luke-jr> to avoid rescanning perhaps
1499 2012-05-09 20:03:09 <BlueMatt> you want to rescan, though...
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1501 2012-05-09 20:03:26 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: better to just scan as it loads the blocks?
1502 2012-05-09 20:03:50 <BlueMatt> it would be the same, would it not?
1503 2012-05-09 20:04:11 <BlueMatt> aside from disk reads, but that would be cached
1504 2012-05-09 20:04:14 <luke-jr> doubt it
1505 2012-05-09 20:04:19 <luke-jr> for both
1506 2012-05-09 20:04:31 <luke-jr> most OS aren't likely to cache 1.3 GB :p
1507 2012-05-09 20:04:38 <BlueMatt> mine does
1508 2012-05-09 20:04:58 <BlueMatt> mine has 4g cached atm, and its only been up for 32 min
1509 2012-05-09 20:05:01 <luke-jr> more annoying to me, anyhow, is that my AcceptToMemoryPool checks IsMine
1510 2012-05-09 20:05:20 <luke-jr> so when loadblock triggers a reorg, and that goes to add orphan txns to the memory pool, it crashes
1511 2012-05-09 20:05:34 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: some users don't even have 1 GB memory
1512 2012-05-09 20:05:49 <BlueMatt> thats pretty rare...
1513 2012-05-09 20:05:58 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: is it? ;)
1514 2012-05-09 20:06:20 * luke-jr ponders Bitcoin-Qt asking the user for permission to expose vague system specs to curious nodes
1515 2012-05-09 20:06:52 <luke-jr> "If your system isn't bleeding edge, allowing this may be necessary to ensure future versions are kept compatible with lower system requirements" :p
1516 2012-05-09 20:06:52 <BlueMatt> well, if you are looking at avoiding looping across things multiple times, there are a /ton/ of cases you can look at...
1517 2012-05-09 20:07:04 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I'm really looking to avoid the crash myself
1518 2012-05-09 20:07:16 <luke-jr> avoiding the rescan is just an excuse :p
1519 2012-05-09 20:07:17 <BlueMatt> crash as in?
1520 2012-05-09 20:07:26 <luke-jr> [20:02:41] <luke-jr> more annoying to me, anyhow, is that my AcceptToMemoryPool checks IsMine
1521 2012-05-09 20:07:27 <luke-jr> [20:02:59] <luke-jr> so when loadblock triggers a reorg, and that goes to add orphan txns to the memory pool, it crashes
1522 2012-05-09 20:07:42 <BlueMatt> how does that cause a crash, is my question?
1523 2012-05-09 20:07:53 <luke-jr> because the wallet isn't loaded yet, and IsMine requires it
1524 2012-05-09 20:08:09 <BlueMatt> oh, dur
1525 2012-05-09 20:08:23 <BlueMatt> Ill shut up now
1526 2012-05-09 20:09:46 <luke-jr> btw, is whoever makes the blockchain snapshots using -detachdb?
1527 2012-05-09 20:10:06 <BlueMatt> tcatm: ?
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1533 2012-05-09 20:16:09 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1247 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1247>
1534 2012-05-09 20:18:15 <Diapolo> wumpus: Could you take a quick look at the open small GUI pulls and comment or merge them :)? As I extract them by hand on my local machines test-build it get's confusing as I have more open pulls ^^.
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1538 2012-05-09 20:20:05 <sipa> jgarzik: though we'll need condition variables anyway too
1539 2012-05-09 20:20:37 <sipa> but adding a sleep in the loop can be added on OSX for now, it seems
1540 2012-05-09 20:21:04 <Diapolo> sipa: wow sounds like a hard problem, you were talking about that one a few hours ago ^^
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1545 2012-05-09 20:29:32 <sipa> Diapolo: i'm just relaying messages here, not coding
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1582 2012-05-09 20:59:23 <DiabloD3> sipa, gmaxwell: did either of you get bitcoind to work on alpine?
1583 2012-05-09 20:59:42 <sipa> never tried
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1587 2012-05-09 20:59:56 <DiabloD3> =/
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1589 2012-05-09 21:02:08 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened issue 1248 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1248>
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1620 2012-05-09 21:20:48 <sipa> gavinandresen: i think we'll need a 0.6.2.1 for OSX...
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1623 2012-05-09 21:25:57 <olp> I wanna build bitcoin-qt exactly as it's built for the official build. Why when I build it, and go to Help->About Bitcoin-Qt, it says: Bitcoin version vCLIENT_VERSION_MAJOR.CLIENT_VERSION_MINOR, while the official build says v0.6.2.
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1625 2012-05-09 21:26:29 <sipa> olp: which OS?
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1627 2012-05-09 21:27:06 <olp> Ubuntu 12 64 (in a VM)
1628 2012-05-09 21:27:16 <sipa> how did you get the source?
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1642 2012-05-09 21:28:14 <olp> From github, tag 0.6.2 tar.gz
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1646 2012-05-09 21:28:54 <sipa> any warnings during compilation?
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1649 2012-05-09 21:29:08 <olp> not sure, will try again
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1654 2012-05-09 21:29:59 <olp> I have RELEASE=1, BDB_LIB_SUFFIX=-4.8, USE_QRCODE=1, and custom include paths in bitcoin-qt.pro
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1665 2012-05-09 21:33:56 <BlueMatt> how did you build with libdb4.8 on ubuntu 12?
1666 2012-05-09 21:33:56 <BlueMatt> do you have the ppa added?
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1675 2012-05-09 21:49:43 <olp> Im build source tarballs for libdb (4.8.30), libminiupnpc, libqrencode, libssl, libboost, adding them to the include path, running qmake, then add the lib directories to SUBLIBS environment variable, then run make
1676 2012-05-09 21:49:51 <olp> had no issue with 0.6.0
1677 2012-05-09 21:50:16 <BlueMatt> ah
1678 2012-05-09 21:50:19 <olp> version number isnt a big deal, but it makes me wonder whether im doing something wrong
1679 2012-05-09 21:53:19 <sipa> olp: the duild system mostly tested on git repositories, where a different version number computation is used
1680 2012-05-09 21:53:25 <sipa> lol, build
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1697 2012-05-09 22:15:47 <sipa> gavinandresen: lol @ forum post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=80187.msg890960#msg890960
1698 2012-05-09 22:16:00 <gavinandresen> i couldn't resist....
1699 2012-05-09 22:17:19 <gavinandresen> oh re: 0.6.2.1 for the mac:  I could write a special #ifdef OSX version of WAIT that does the Sleep(0).
1700 2012-05-09 22:17:42 <gavinandresen> ... if "we" think that's the right fix
1701 2012-05-09 22:17:47 <sipa> it shouldn't harm on other OS'es either; that loop should run exactly once in normal circumstances
1702 2012-05-09 22:18:18 <gavinandresen> good, I hate #ifdefs
1703 2012-05-09 22:20:38 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: sleep(0) yields on windows & linux; should be fine
1704 2012-05-09 22:22:31 <gavinandresen> OK. I'll push to the 0.6.2 branch, tag a v0.6.2.1, build a new osx binary, test, and upload to sourceforge with new shasums.  Then cherry-pick into git HEAD
1705 2012-05-09 22:23:16 * luke-jr ponders if Mac can be made to do buildbot stuff
1706 2012-05-09 22:23:45 <sipa> i read something about an OSX crosscompiler project somewhere
1707 2012-05-09 22:25:14 <luke-jr> that'd be better
1708 2012-05-09 22:25:32 <sipa> gmaxwell: any suggestion for improving the master generation in BIP32?
1709 2012-05-09 22:25:43 <BlueMatt> the only one Ive seen was just a bunch of gcc patches and it looked really difficult to use
1710 2012-05-09 22:26:40 <sipa> gmaxwell: i considered key strengthening to be something you use to derive the key by which wallet keys are encrypted, not the way they are generated
1711 2012-05-09 22:27:38 <sipa> though strengthening may be useful if the master seed is only 128 bits, to slow down attacks that are based on poor PRNG's
1712 2012-05-09 22:30:14 <luke-jr> this is confusing
1713 2012-05-09 22:30:18 <luke-jr> is debug.log ever out-of-order?
1714 2012-05-09 22:38:27 <gmaxwell> sipa: really it shouldn't be just 128 bits (due to concerns of prng weakness, plus its long lived keying material).. but fair point. I guess what bugs me is that the use you forsee if the best one (shouldn't use user provided passwords unless you can rotate them) but I promise people will be promoting key derived seeds for it before we even have the software deployed.
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1717 2012-05-09 22:39:54 <gmaxwell> sipa: sleep(some small number) seems more conservative than zero.
1718 2012-05-09 22:40:52 <sipa> gavinandresen: what we actually should test is whether the wait command actually does cause waiting, if a sleep(0) is added
1719 2012-05-09 22:41:16 <sipa> if that is the case, sleep 0 is perfect; if not, a higher number may be better
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1730 2012-05-09 22:53:12 <jgarzik> further googling indicates that windows xp may simply busy-loop in some cases, for sleep(0)
1731 2012-05-09 22:53:28 <jgarzik> "Windows XP:  A value of zero causes the thread to relinquish the remainder of its time slice to any other thread of equal priority that is ready to run. If there are no other threads of equal priority ready to run, the function returns immediately, and the thread continues execution. This behavior changed starting with Windows Server 2003."
1732 2012-05-09 22:53:57 <gmaxwell> this case doesn't actually need superfast responsiveness.. 100ms sleeps or whatever would be fine.
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1738 2012-05-09 22:57:32 * luke-jr wishes debug.log contained info on why a block submitted with getmemorypool was rejected
1739 2012-05-09 23:01:05 Snapman[afkers] is now known as Snapman
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1743 2012-05-09 23:07:38 <gavinandresen> Sleep(1) it is then... building, but updating/uploading will have to wait until tomorrow (I've got Town Meeting duties tonight)
1744 2012-05-09 23:07:42 <graingert> is there a white hat policy for bitcoin?
1745 2012-05-09 23:08:03 ThomasV has joined
1746 2012-05-09 23:08:25 <gavinandresen> no, but there aught to be.  want to write one?
1747 2012-05-09 23:08:33 <gavinandresen> The github one looks like a good model
1748 2012-05-09 23:08:40 <graingert> https://www.facebook.com/whitehat
1749 2012-05-09 23:09:27 <graingert> If you give us a reasonable time to respond to your report before making  any information public and make a good faith effort to avoid the stealing of funds, privacy violations, destruction of data, interruption or degradation of the bitcoin service during your research, we will not bring any lawsuit against you  or ask law enforcement to investigate you.
1750 2012-05-09 23:09:39 <gavinandresen> http://help.github.com/responsible-disclosure/
1751 2012-05-09 23:10:04 <graingert> also there should be a PGP key for your security email address
1752 2012-05-09 23:10:06 sirk390 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1753 2012-05-09 23:10:31 <graingert> White hat researchers are always appreciated.
1754 2012-05-09 23:10:37 <graingert> how about that?
1755 2012-05-09 23:13:32 <graingert> gavinandresen: ^
1756 2012-05-09 23:14:51 <gavinandresen> how about what?  sounds good to me, write it up and make a pull request for bitcoin.org.  I don't know the best way to handle pgp keys for the bitcoin-security email list
1757 2012-05-09 23:14:59 <luke-jr> what is this policy for?
1758 2012-05-09 23:15:09 <graingert> luke-jr: good point
1759 2012-05-09 23:15:24 <gavinandresen> ok, now I really am away...
1760 2012-05-09 23:15:26 <graingert> it should be clear it's on the bitcoin deamon the bitcoin-qt software and the bitcoin.org site
1761 2012-05-09 23:15:33 <graingert> gavinandresen: last bit
1762 2012-05-09 23:15:46 <luke-jr> graingert: the MIT license already gives permission to do anything
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1765 2012-05-09 23:16:24 <graingert> luke-jr: actually another good point, you can't make that policy for another user running bitcoin-qt
1766 2012-05-09 23:16:38 <luke-jr> right
1767 2012-05-09 23:17:14 <luke-jr> the most anyone could do is a joint statement by developers what we consider acceptable to do on the network
1768 2012-05-09 23:17:24 <luke-jr> but it'd be totally unenforcable either way
1769 2012-05-09 23:17:27 <gmaxwell> Well I can say that I will gladly provide my services as an expert wittness at no cost in any case involving someone who has attacked the bitcoin system, and won't do so except under subpona against the interest of anyone who responsibly disclosed.
1770 2012-05-09 23:17:47 <graingert> luke-jr: sure
1771 2012-05-09 23:17:58 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: but any prosecution is going to be using subpoenas anyway
1772 2012-05-09 23:17:58 <gmaxwell> But I don't know if anyone cares. People generally want to do the right thing anyways because people aren't evil.
1773 2012-05-09 23:18:06 <luke-jr> people are evil
1774 2012-05-09 23:18:21 <graingert> gmaxwell: yes but you guys ( gavinandresen) someone etc
1775 2012-05-09 23:18:28 <graingert> can still sue an etheical hacker
1776 2012-05-09 23:18:34 <graingert> ethical hacker*
1777 2012-05-09 23:18:34 <luke-jr> graingert: no, they can't.
1778 2012-05-09 23:18:42 <gmaxwell> First, Anyone can sue anyone.
1779 2012-05-09 23:18:44 <graingert> who know about bitcoin
1780 2012-05-09 23:18:49 <graingert> who knows about bitcoin*
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1782 2012-05-09 23:18:53 <graingert> but a particular site
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1784 2012-05-09 23:19:07 <gmaxwell> Secondly, anyone who uses and depends on bitcoin has proper standing to sue someone who disrupts bitcoin. This isn't rocket science.
1785 2012-05-09 23:19:12 <graingert> luke-jr: say someone found a vuln in your box. You can sue them even if they are ethical
1786 2012-05-09 23:19:12 <luke-jr> graingert: Gavin and the rest of us have no more legal standing than anyone else, except in copyright matters
1787 2012-05-09 23:19:25 <luke-jr> graingert: breaking into someone else's box isn't ethical.
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1789 2012-05-09 23:19:42 <graingert> luke-jr: that's not the case on facebook or github
1790 2012-05-09 23:19:52 <graingert> those guys allow it for whitehat research
1791 2012-05-09 23:20:04 <luke-jr> graingert: and nobody has the authority to give permission to do it, except the would-be victim
1792 2012-05-09 23:20:07 <graingert> under a good faith agreement
1793 2012-05-09 23:20:16 <graingert> yes that's true on bitcoin-qt
1794 2012-05-09 23:20:23 <graingert> but not for say eligus
1795 2012-05-09 23:20:46 <luke-jr> sure, I'm just saying it doesn't make sense on a Bitcoin-Qt/bitcoind side
1796 2012-05-09 23:20:52 <graingert> luke-jr: agreed
1797 2012-05-09 23:20:59 <graingert> I forgot about that subtlty
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1799 2012-05-09 23:23:19 <gmaxwell> Forgetting 'policy' a moment, having a request and submission form would be nice.
1800 2012-05-09 23:23:38 <gmaxwell> Getting vuln reports over unsecure IRC from random people is less nice.
1801 2012-05-09 23:24:20 <luke-jr> XD
1802 2012-05-09 23:25:58 <k9quaint> some of them probably take the form of "HAE GUYZ! I FOUN HAX!"
1803 2012-05-09 23:26:04 <graingert> also one can point at testnet for haxing
1804 2012-05-09 23:26:10 <luke-jr> lol
1805 2012-05-09 23:26:15 <graingert> k9quaint: not if it requires pgp enigmail
1806 2012-05-09 23:26:26 <graingert> k9quaint: that will cut down on the scriddies
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1809 2012-05-09 23:27:13 <luke-jr> graingert: you're assuming idiots never find real issues?
1810 2012-05-09 23:27:24 <graingert> no only scriddies
1811 2012-05-09 23:27:44 <luke-jr> pgp enigmail will keep out idiots too
1812 2012-05-09 23:27:53 <luke-jr> and probably any non-firefox user?
1813 2012-05-09 23:28:01 <graingert> wat
1814 2012-05-09 23:28:26 <graingert> cat hax.eml | gpg --clearsign
1815 2012-05-09 23:28:30 <graingert> sorry
1816 2012-05-09 23:28:37 <graingert> gpg (ecryption parms)
1817 2012-05-09 23:28:49 <luke-jr> …
1818 2012-05-09 23:29:07 <luke-jr> more importantly, when bitcoind rejects an invalid block, does it save it anywhere? :/
1819 2012-05-09 23:29:14 <graingert> buuh
1820 2012-05-09 23:29:51 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, yes it's in block0001.dat
1821 2012-05-09 23:29:55 <phantomcircuit> you just have to find it
1822 2012-05-09 23:29:59 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: I looked
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1824 2012-05-09 23:30:01 <luke-jr> it's not :/
1825 2012-05-09 23:30:01 <phantomcircuit> or maybe that's been fixed
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1829 2012-05-09 23:30:42 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, very easy to add
1830 2012-05-09 23:30:48 <gmaxwell> It depends on _why_ it's rejected.
1831 2012-05-09 23:31:47 <gmaxwell> IIRC if the hash fails to meet the claimed difficulty, for example, it will just get tossed. But you can't early reject for referential failures.
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1833 2012-05-09 23:32:41 <luke-jr> ConnectBlock failed
1834 2012-05-09 23:35:09 <luke-jr> ok nm
1835 2012-05-09 23:35:11 <luke-jr> got another one
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