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   5 2012-05-10 00:15:10 <olp> to follow up: I did git clone https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin, git checkout v0.6.2, and built it from there, and it seems to work fine now (I guess it's cause it was calling git describe to get the version info)
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  23 2012-05-10 00:53:02 <luke-jr> ugh
  24 2012-05-10 00:53:15 <luke-jr> ConnectBlock is dangerous :/
  25 2012-05-10 00:53:48 <DiabloD3> oh?
  26 2012-05-10 00:54:10 <luke-jr> looks like it modifies blkindex as a side-effect, always
  27 2012-05-10 00:54:19 <luke-jr> maybe
  28 2012-05-10 00:54:27 <DiabloD3> SIDE EFFECT BAD
  29 2012-05-10 00:54:32 <luke-jr> either way, it doesn't work unless I put the block to disk
  30 2012-05-10 00:54:33 <DiabloD3> FUNCTIONAL PROGRAMMING FOREVER
  31 2012-05-10 00:54:44 <DiabloD3> you mean it doesnt work until you commit it?
  32 2012-05-10 00:54:46 <luke-jr> which obviously is not useful for checking templates
  33 2012-05-10 00:55:04 <luke-jr> DiabloD3: I mean I have to append the block to blk0001.dat before I can check it with ConnectBlock
  34 2012-05-10 00:55:14 <DiabloD3> oh, eww
  35 2012-05-10 00:55:17 <DiabloD3> thats kind of useless
  36 2012-05-10 00:55:35 <luke-jr> it's a pain, at least
  37 2012-05-10 00:55:51 <luke-jr> it might be possible to sanitize it, but it'd take a few hours of work at least
  38 2012-05-10 00:56:26 <luke-jr> more annoyingly, it means I can't easily just put a failsafe on CreateNewBlock changes
  39 2012-05-10 00:56:40 <luke-jr> ie "if the new code makes an invalid block template, use the old code"
  40 2012-05-10 00:57:37 <sipa> luke-jr: connectblock works by checking whether all inputs are available, and then marking them unavailable
  41 2012-05-10 00:57:55 <luke-jr> sipa: yeah, but I thought the marking was temporary unless the caller committed them :/
  42 2012-05-10 00:58:02 <sipa> it is temporary
  43 2012-05-10 00:58:14 <sipa> as it happens inside a db transaction that can be aborted
  44 2012-05-10 00:58:14 <luke-jr> then I guess my problem is just the stupid disk thing
  45 2012-05-10 00:58:29 <sipa> but it being written to disk beforehand is the step before that
  46 2012-05-10 00:58:29 <luke-jr> what if I'm too stupid to abort or commit?
  47 2012-05-10 00:58:36 <sipa> then you're stupid
  48 2012-05-10 00:58:50 <sipa> satoshi wrote the code for himself, not for you :p
  49 2012-05-10 00:59:25 <sipa> luke-jr: oh, uncommit changes are aborted when the CTxDB object dies
  50 2012-05-10 00:59:28 <luke-jr> oh, and I'm bailing out of ConnectBlock at / Write queued txindex changes
  51 2012-05-10 00:59:39 <luke-jr> i c
  52 2012-05-10 00:59:47 <luke-jr> it onyl has a read CTxDB here anyway
  53 2012-05-10 00:59:59 <sipa> but still, the block exists in blk0001.dat at that point anyway
  54 2012-05-10 01:00:03 <sipa> and that won't be reverted
  55 2012-05-10 01:00:24 <luke-jr> will it be tolerated if I change the code to work before that point?
  56 2012-05-10 01:00:32 <luke-jr> ie, check a CBlock itself
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  60 2012-05-10 01:01:54 <sipa> i suppose you can
  61 2012-05-10 01:02:11 <sipa> fetchinputs also works on memory pools
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  72 2012-05-10 01:22:59 <sipa> gmaxwell: the problem is that for the master generation you can't use a dynamic number of iterations
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  74 2012-05-10 01:24:12 <sipa> it could be fixed to be PBKDF2 or scrypt or whatever, with a fixed number of iterations, but that may prove not so useful
  75 2012-05-10 01:24:16 <sipa> after time
  76 2012-05-10 01:26:00 <sipa> hmm, maybe you could define a "security level", corresponding to a combination of seed size, iterations, memory, ...
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  85 2012-05-10 01:52:13 <phantomcircuit> sipa, incorporate a time component
  86 2012-05-10 01:52:33 <sipa> ?
  87 2012-05-10 01:52:50 <phantomcircuit> security meter which slowly goes down the longer an address that was deterministically generated has been in use
  88 2012-05-10 01:53:25 <gmaxwell> if the generation was really random with ample entropy then thats pointless.
  89 2012-05-10 01:53:40 <gmaxwell> If it wasn't someone with a rainbow table 0wns you seconds after the funds first go in.
  90 2012-05-10 01:54:23 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, no but in general overtime the number of iterations/hash algorithm used will slowly become less and less secure (mostly iterations)
  91 2012-05-10 01:55:23 <phantomcircuit> it would be fairly easy to have a semi centralized service which stores the parameters which were used to generate a private key such that you could enter the address and retrieve them
  92 2012-05-10 01:55:59 <phantomcircuit> it seems the biggest threat of having different standards is incompatibility which could be fixed with something like that
  93 2012-05-10 01:56:03 <sipa> ideally, i'd want an interface where you're asked to imput your name, your e-mail address, your birth date, a wallet name, then click "generate!", and a (at least) 128-bit pseudorandom hex string is added, and all that fed to scrypt to generate the 512-bit master
  94 2012-05-10 01:56:31 <sipa> or you could enter the same details, add the hex string, and recreate from there
  95 2012-05-10 01:56:40 <sipa> *input
  96 2012-05-10 01:57:15 <phantomcircuit> that's a lot of information to encode the same way everytime
  97 2012-05-10 01:57:47 <sipa> there is little extra entropy in having them all; just an e-mail address may be fine
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  99 2012-05-10 01:57:58 <gmaxwell> I regularly get locked out of one of my bank accounts because I can't manage to repeat the answers to their stupid secret questions.
 100 2012-05-10 01:58:21 BurtyB has joined
 101 2012-05-10 01:58:50 <sipa> anyway, just asking any bit of private information there would help security for average users a lot, i think
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 103 2012-05-10 01:59:10 <gmaxwell> sipa: people would be confused into thinking bitcoin was collecting identifying information. :(
 104 2012-05-10 01:59:11 <sipa> even if the actual hex string is (simple) password-derived
 105 2012-05-10 01:59:28 <sipa> meh, true
 106 2012-05-10 01:59:44 <phantomcircuit> a combination system could work
 107 2012-05-10 01:59:57 <phantomcircuit> a large truly random salt hosted by a third party
 108 2012-05-10 02:00:02 <phantomcircuit> combined with a simple password
 109 2012-05-10 02:00:22 <sipa> correct horse staple battery
 110 2012-05-10 02:00:28 <phantomcircuit> wat
 111 2012-05-10 02:00:45 <sipa> http://xkcd.com/936/
 112 2012-05-10 02:00:49 <phantomcircuit> oh right
 113 2012-05-10 02:00:52 <phantomcircuit> word dice
 114 2012-05-10 02:01:10 <phantomcircuit> his estimation of entropy is wildly naive
 115 2012-05-10 02:01:17 <sipa> 128 bit in word dice is already pretty long, though
 116 2012-05-10 02:01:24 <sipa> and less... meh
 117 2012-05-10 02:01:25 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: that has no more security than a simple password (which is almost always horiffic) except immunity to nway amplification/rainbow tables.
 118 2012-05-10 02:01:45 <gmaxwell> sipa: it's 12 words using the word list electrum uses.
 119 2012-05-10 02:01:50 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, not against the third party
 120 2012-05-10 02:01:54 <phantomcircuit> oh i forgot
 121 2012-05-10 02:01:54 <sipa> gmaxwell: doable
 122 2012-05-10 02:02:06 <phantomcircuit> third party authenticates you using normal shitty loose auth mechanisms
 123 2012-05-10 02:02:08 <phantomcircuit> like email
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 125 2012-05-10 02:02:42 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: the the third party says "oh sorry, we want $100,000 to access your money"  or "funny, we got this alamony order from your exwife"
 126 2012-05-10 02:03:27 <gmaxwell> Might as well just have an encrypted truly random string (no attacks from just he blockchain) ... and leave that with whatever trusted parties you like.
 127 2012-05-10 02:03:47 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, right but you could have more than one
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 130 2012-05-10 02:04:06 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, well yes that's what i was implying
 131 2012-05-10 02:04:18 <phantomcircuit> you would print it out and put it in your safety deposit box
 132 2012-05-10 02:04:23 <phantomcircuit> could*
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 134 2012-05-10 02:05:14 <sipa> gmaxwell: but i feel that this user interface to wallet (re)construction is outside of the scope of the BIP (though i would very much like to have that common between clients too)
 135 2012-05-10 02:05:23 <Yuio> i agree with sipa that retrive some informations can be good
 136 2012-05-10 02:05:50 <sipa> gmaxwell: still, adding a fixed slow step in going from 128(+) bits to 512 is a good idea
 137 2012-05-10 02:06:19 <gmaxwell> sipa: _much_ better than not.
 138 2012-05-10 02:06:30 <sipa> if it's going to be used as i hope, it won't matter
 139 2012-05-10 02:06:39 <sipa> but if it isn't (and indeed, it won't), it will
 140 2012-05-10 02:07:05 <gmaxwell> Thats why I brought it up.
 141 2012-05-10 02:07:29 <gmaxwell> another possibility is to burn some entropy to the sane use gods.
 142 2012-05-10 02:07:36 <sipa> ?
 143 2012-05-10 02:08:25 <gmaxwell> Explained:  Require that expensive('password')=x, such that the first n bits of x are zeros.. Where x is say, 16 or so.
 144 2012-05-10 02:08:35 <sipa> "the first 16 bits of the SHA256 sum should be 0, but we use the SHA512 as seed" ?
 145 2012-05-10 02:08:47 <sipa> right
 146 2012-05-10 02:08:51 <gmaxwell> Did you write that in parallel to me? crazy. Yes.
 147 2012-05-10 02:09:21 <sipa> i certainly started typing before i saw your response
 148 2012-05-10 02:09:49 <gmaxwell> This would make it impossible to use purely user provided passwords as the source.
 149 2012-05-10 02:10:17 <gmaxwell> They'd have to have at on average 16 bits of 'salt' ... and more likely just be randomly generated entirely.
 150 2012-05-10 02:10:47 <sipa> and the "security level" could define the number of zero bits
 151 2012-05-10 02:11:04 <sipa> (to make it future-proof)
 152 2012-05-10 02:12:24 <gmaxwell> it need to do the bit check on the other side of expensive() and also has to have the chain on the other side of expensive. Otherwise you'd just check the blockchain instead of running expensive. Or check for 16 zeros before running expensive.
 153 2012-05-10 02:12:40 <gmaxwell> But e.g. if expensive writes out more bits than needed just use bits that the rest won't use.
 154 2012-05-10 02:13:01 <sipa> the chain?
 155 2012-05-10 02:13:39 <sipa> you mean the key tree derivation?
 156 2012-05-10 02:13:44 <gmaxwell> Right.
 157 2012-05-10 02:13:53 <luke-jr> can we make Bitcoin accept preimages for POW? :P
 158 2012-05-10 02:14:17 <gmaxwell> I mean the cost of checking a candidate key either way needs to be fairly equal or the attacker will just use the easier one.
 159 2012-05-10 02:14:35 <sipa> gmaxwell: good point
 160 2012-05-10 02:15:24 <gmaxwell> So e.g. I'd say scrypt(pwd+seclevel)=768 bits, and the zeros test is just the last seclevel bits, and the key tree root is the first 512. Or the like.
 161 2012-05-10 02:17:12 <sipa> but that will make generation very slow
 162 2012-05-10 02:17:41 <sipa> as you need the slow scrypt (with many iterations, i assume), and run it 2^N times, if you require N zero bits
 163 2012-05-10 02:17:51 <gmaxwell> hm? Not with the right parameters for the scrypt, — small ones are justifyable becuase of the iterations.
 164 2012-05-10 02:18:48 * luke-jr thinks it makes sense to stick with SHA256 as much as possible
 165 2012-05-10 02:19:15 <sipa> BIP32 is already mostly SHA512-based, but yes, i have some preference for not using too many algorithms
 166 2012-05-10 02:19:26 <sipa> though i like scrypt a lot too
 167 2012-05-10 02:21:19 <gmaxwell> I just wish we could build a device that sets people who build tools that encourage users to footgun on fire. That seems more satisifying and simpler.
 168 2012-05-10 02:21:48 inductor has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 169 2012-05-10 02:22:41 <gmaxwell> Even 8 bits of entropy burning is probably enough to prevent the pure password use cases... that doesnt seem that slow— and for stored wallets we only pay it once.
 170 2012-05-10 02:23:07 <gmaxwell> (because you'd store the (optionally encrypted) output of that step too)
 171 2012-05-10 02:23:56 <gmaxwell> and then only import/export in that form or the inner chain keys. .. but bleh, perhaps futile, people will just import inner chainkeys which were insecurely generated instead.
 172 2012-05-10 02:24:22 <sipa> but inner chain keys are 512 bits
 173 2012-05-10 02:25:23 <gmaxwell> right and someone will make some tool that does sha512('Imanidiot')= chainkeys.
 174 2012-05-10 02:25:30 <sipa> yup
 175 2012-05-10 02:26:00 <sipa> so whatever we're suggesting here should be simple enough that it's viable they choose the standard instead of that :)
 176 2012-05-10 02:26:38 * sipa -> zZzZ
 177 2012-05-10 02:26:44 <gmaxwell> well at least importing a chain key costs you functionality. but yea.. ::shrugs::
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 211 2012-05-10 03:40:58 <twmz> sipa: I must be doing something wrong. neither sleep(0) nor sleep(1) prevented the 100% cpu issue for me.  I know gavinandresen said it fixed it, though which is why I think I may have done something wrong.  note, the 100% CPU is not right away.  it doesn't start until a minute or two after bitcoin starts up.
 212 2012-05-10 03:41:20 <DiabloD3> sleep(1) fixes normal dummy loop sleep bugs
 213 2012-05-10 03:41:32 <DiabloD3> ie, it tells it to actually sleep
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 215 2012-05-10 03:43:01 <gmaxwell> twmz: yes, "it doesn't start until a minute or two after bitcoin starts up" expected for this bug, the busyloop only goes busy when you are full outbound wise.
 216 2012-05-10 03:43:37 <gmaxwell> twmz: try making it Sleep(100).  also, make sure you're actually running the version you just compiled. :)
 217 2012-05-10 03:46:48 <DiabloD3> gmaxwell: that shouldnt matter
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 219 2012-05-10 03:47:08 <DiabloD3> sleep(1) still forces a context switch on your usual broken schedulers
 220 2012-05-10 03:47:28 <gmaxwell> DiabloD3: it's still busy which isn't really what we want here.
 221 2012-05-10 03:47:50 <DiabloD3> true
 222 2012-05-10 03:47:54 <DiabloD3> but I think its not that
 223 2012-05-10 03:48:06 <gmaxwell> the only purpose of the loop is to open more outbound connections if some close. We can handle a maximum 100ms wait for that.
 224 2012-05-10 03:48:41 <gmaxwell> DiabloD3: It's pretty clearly spending all that time in that loop, and the fact that it doesn't start until a bit after startup is also good evidence.
 225 2012-05-10 03:48:52 <DiabloD3> yes
 226 2012-05-10 03:48:54 <DiabloD3> which means
 227 2012-05-10 03:49:05 <DiabloD3> which meaaannnsss
 228 2012-05-10 03:49:07 <DiabloD3> I hate fglrx
 229 2012-05-10 03:49:23 <DiabloD3> because they should just gpl the fucking kenrel module and have upstream ship it in the fucking kenrel
 230 2012-05-10 03:49:33 <DiabloD3> Ive been fighting with this thing for the last two fucking hours
 231 2012-05-10 03:49:35 <DiabloD3> WORK ALREADY
 232 2012-05-10 03:52:00 <DiabloD3> seriously
 233 2012-05-10 03:52:33 <gmaxwell> DiabloD3: hey! hey!
 234 2012-05-10 03:52:43 <gmaxwell> I think you've butt dialed #bitcoin-dev
 235 2012-05-10 03:52:53 <gmaxwell> ... because this sure isn't #fglrx hate
 236 2012-05-10 03:52:58 <DiabloD3> heh
 237 2012-05-10 03:53:11 <DiabloD3> my problems are more important than twmz's problems
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 241 2012-05-10 04:02:17 <k9quaint> ATI always had bad drivers
 242 2012-05-10 04:03:55 <DiabloD3> fuck off k9
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 273 2012-05-10 04:53:52 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: luke-jr reopened pull request 1246 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1246>
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 296 2012-05-10 05:48:39 <luke-jr> ;;bc,diff
 297 2012-05-10 05:48:40 <gribble> 1733207.5138484
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 316 2012-05-10 06:28:18 <JFK911> wow difficulty
 317 2012-05-10 06:28:20 <JFK911> !ticker
 318 2012-05-10 06:28:20 <gribble> Best bid: 5.04882, Best ask: 5.0492, Bid-ask spread: 0.00038, Last trade: 5.04882, 24 hour volume: 32932, 24 hour low: 5, 24 hour high: 5.09609
 319 2012-05-10 06:28:23 <JFK911> ;;bc,,stats
 320 2012-05-10 06:28:24 <gribble> Error: "bc,,stats" is not a valid command.
 321 2012-05-10 06:28:27 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
 322 2012-05-10 06:28:29 <gribble> Current Blocks: 179537 | Current Difficulty: 1733207.5138484 | Next Difficulty At Block: 181439 | Next Difficulty In: 1902 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 15 hours, 47 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1824318.47085058 | Estimated Percent Change: 5.25678294578
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 365 2012-05-10 08:06:13 <fpgaminer> Is 0x00 supposed to be base58 encoded as "1" or as "11"? Brainwallet shows "11", but reading the Bitcoin code it seems like it should be just "1".
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 421 2012-05-10 10:33:14 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: olea opened issue 1249 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1249>
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 431 2012-05-10 11:20:50 <twmz> gmaxwell: it still didn't help even with sleep(100).  we are talking about this line of code (right?)...
 432 2012-05-10 11:20:52 <twmz> do { while(!(condition)) { (name).wait(waitablecriticalblock.GetLock()); sleep(100);} } while(0)
 433 2012-05-10 11:21:06 <twmz> I confirmed I am running the version I compiled.
 434 2012-05-10 11:21:40 <drizztbsd> 100 seconds! :E
 435 2012-05-10 11:21:44 <twmz> Is it possible that the busy loop is *inside* the call to (name).wait() and so the sleep is getting called only once after the wait is entirely over?
 436 2012-05-10 11:21:47 <sipa> it's in millisecond
 437 2012-05-10 11:22:06 <sipa> twmz: if you've a means to test that, please do
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 439 2012-05-10 11:22:30 <sipa> twmz: wait, sleep with a small or large s?
 440 2012-05-10 11:23:02 <twmz> exactly as I pasted it above.  which should it be?
 441 2012-05-10 11:23:04 <drizztbsd> Sleep should be milliseconds
 442 2012-05-10 11:23:19 <sipa> twmz: try Sleep(1) there
 443 2012-05-10 11:23:25 <sipa> Sleep is milliseconds, sleep is seconds
 444 2012-05-10 11:23:37 <drizztbsd> yes, I know :)
 445 2012-05-10 11:24:17 <twmz> ok, well it's not stuck for 100 seconds.  It's still maxing out the CPU, so I don't think that loop is not spinning.  it almost has to be deeping in the stack.
 446 2012-05-10 11:24:37 <twmz> I get different output in the profiler now that I am profiling the debug version also:
 447 2012-05-10 11:25:05 <twmz> http://i.imgur.com/f2359.png
 448 2012-05-10 11:25:36 <sipa> hmmm
 449 2012-05-10 11:26:00 <sipa> the spinlock seems to be inside .wait(), it seems
 450 2012-05-10 11:26:07 <sipa> still, could you try that Sleep(1) ?
 451 2012-05-10 11:26:12 datagutt has joined
 452 2012-05-10 11:26:14 <twmz> yes, it's compiling
 453 2012-05-10 11:27:36 <sipa> somehow i doubt it will make a difference
 454 2012-05-10 11:27:52 <sipa> but still, as gavin reported that that seemed to fix the issue...
 455 2012-05-10 11:28:20 <Diablo-D3> if you have more than one sleep in your loop, you've gone wrong somewhere
 456 2012-05-10 11:29:05 <twmz> only thing I can think is gavin wasn't waiting long enough (the busyloop doesn't happen until enough outbound connections are established, gmaxwell said
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 458 2012-05-10 11:32:01 <twmz> ok, it's still at 100% with Sleep(1)
 459 2012-05-10 11:32:07 <twmz> after 8 connections, that is
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 461 2012-05-10 11:33:08 <sipa> bah
 462 2012-05-10 11:33:20 <sipa> how is one supposed to wait for a condition variable in OSX?
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 464 2012-05-10 11:35:38 <sipa> gavinandresen: see above; are you sure the Sleep(1) fixes the 100% usage?
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 467 2012-05-10 11:38:43 <twmz> IMHO, the boost guys should have the Sleep() in their busy loop.  It's obsurd that they feel is is ok to just spin in a tight loop.  Of course, there probably is also some kind of OS X specific API for doing this kind of thing that maybe they should take advantage of, but sometimes those APIs are not available to C++ apps (and are only available to Objective C apps).  Not sure if that is the case here.
 468 2012-05-10 11:38:57 <Diablo-D3> boost is fucktarded, please dont use it.
 469 2012-05-10 11:39:33 <sipa> twmz: i'll try to reimplement it using a semaphore, as suggested by jgarzik
 470 2012-05-10 11:39:39 <sipa> that is actually more appropriate here
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 472 2012-05-10 11:39:55 <sipa> though i would have liked to just be able to use conditions
 473 2012-05-10 11:41:58 <TuxBlackEdo> i have a question, what still needs to be done with the bitcoin client?
 474 2012-05-10 11:44:12 <TuxBlackEdo> or is the bitcoin client pretty much done?
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 483 2012-05-10 12:03:50 <ronaz> is the language still forced to be localized based on os settings? seems to be in 0.6.0.6-beta at least. it sucks, big time.
 484 2012-05-10 12:05:35 <sipa> ronaz: 0.7.0 will have it configurable from the options panel
 485 2012-05-10 12:06:43 <ronaz> great news!
 486 2012-05-10 12:07:59 <Blitzboom> http://wiki.eth-0.nl/images/9/9e/Great_success.jpg
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 488 2012-05-10 12:08:47 <sipa> ronaz: personally, i never liked translated programs, so even though my native language isn't english, my OS always is
 489 2012-05-10 12:09:42 <ronaz> sipa: same for me, my win7 is in english but the client runs in my native language based on some other setting there is
 490 2012-05-10 12:09:51 <sipa> hmm, strange
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 512 2012-05-10 12:57:48 <kinlo> sipa: many programs request the region settings from windows to deduct the language
 513 2012-05-10 12:57:55 <kinlo> it is indeed extreamly anoying
 514 2012-05-10 12:58:19 <kinlo> I'd like to tell the os that I speak english but I like to use dutch conventions etc
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 538 2012-05-10 13:42:42 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1250 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1250>
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 541 2012-05-10 13:47:53 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1251 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1251>
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 598 2012-05-10 15:31:10 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: do you think it would be a bad idea to add support for alternative block hashing algorithms scheduled for 2 years from now?
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 600 2012-05-10 15:31:32 <drizztbsd> like sha512?
 601 2012-05-10 15:31:36 <luke-jr> yes
 602 2012-05-10 15:31:39 <luke-jr> and preimage proofs
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 606 2012-05-10 15:31:55 <drizztbsd> fpgas needs new firmare
 607 2012-05-10 15:31:57 <sipa> why preimage proofs?
 608 2012-05-10 15:32:01 <luke-jr> sipa: preimage proofs can solve the whole block withholding issue, in theory
 609 2012-05-10 15:32:08 <sipa> explain
 610 2012-05-10 15:33:07 <luke-jr> sipa: I haven't figured out the details for p2pool/GMP style mining, but for getwork, the pool can include the preimage in the coinbase, and not tell miners what they're looking for in a block
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 612 2012-05-10 15:33:18 <luke-jr> then miners won't know which shares to withhold
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 615 2012-05-10 15:33:43 <sipa> luke-jr: the block header would need to contain the preimage
 616 2012-05-10 15:33:51 <luke-jr> sipa: it could be in the coinbase
 617 2012-05-10 15:33:51 <sipa> since you can't decide it in advance
 618 2012-05-10 15:33:58 <sipa> agree, in the coinbase would be fine
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 620 2012-05-10 15:34:31 <sipa> i'd wait until SHA-3 is chosen, and has had a few years of testing
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 624 2012-05-10 15:36:59 <gmaxwell> What sipa says.. though interesting thing about withholding.
 625 2012-05-10 15:38:18 <sipa> i wonder if it's necessary to have the PoW hash be equal to the id hash
 626 2012-05-10 15:38:53 <gmaxwell> It makes some forms of DOS resistance easier...
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 636 2012-05-10 15:55:21 <luke-jr> sipa: gmaxwell: any comments on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1240#issuecomment-5627356 notes?
 637 2012-05-10 16:00:21 <sipa> luke-jr: i'll have a look at it later
 638 2012-05-10 16:00:44 <sipa> anyone want to test http://bitcoin.sipa.be/shatest/test.html in their browser? (it's a HMAC-SHA512 benchmark)
 639 2012-05-10 16:01:01 sneak has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 640 2012-05-10 16:01:29 <gmaxwell> There is a bunch of stuff going on to do SIMD in JS, plus webcl is almost usable... so a year from now the browser hashfunction performance may be very different.
 641 2012-05-10 16:04:25 <Diapolo> sipa: I will test ^^ love benches :D
 642 2012-05-10 16:04:36 <luke-jr> sipa: Chromium=1607 Konqueror/Webkit=1168 Rekonq=1162
 643 2012-05-10 16:04:50 <sipa> painfully slow :(
 644 2012-05-10 16:05:02 <sipa> ff 12.0 does 9500 here
 645 2012-05-10 16:05:08 <Diapolo> sipa: 9478.67298578199 (FF 14.0a2 Aurora)
 646 2012-05-10 16:05:36 <luke-jr> 10706 in FF here
 647 2012-05-10 16:05:51 <Diapolo> sipa: IE9 1200 ^^ LOL
 648 2012-05-10 16:06:07 <luke-jr> odd, I thought Chromium was the pioneer in fast JS
 649 2012-05-10 16:06:42 <sipa> ff is also faster than chromium here
 650 2012-05-10 16:06:49 <sipa> a factor 2 only, though
 651 2012-05-10 16:07:17 <Diapolo> Mozilla did a great job with their JS engine!
 652 2012-05-10 16:07:44 <Diapolo> sipa: IE9 x64 < 300 i/s
 653 2012-05-10 16:08:07 <kinlo> I get 6788 in FF and 2282 in chrome
 654 2012-05-10 16:08:40 * luke-jr wonders if Mozilla's JS engine supports custom variable trees
 655 2012-05-10 16:08:44 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: Chromium is foremost a pioneer in marketing. They got a head start on faster JIT based JS.. but mozilla already had the trace based optimizer which is much better than JIT for many tasks. When they finally combined JIT+Trace they had faster performance.
 656 2012-05-10 16:09:22 <sipa> Diapolo: that's... almost ridiculous
 657 2012-05-10 16:09:36 <kinlo> if only firefox would just fix a few of the anoying rough edges
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 659 2012-05-10 16:09:46 <Diapolo> sipa: I can do better by hand :D.
 660 2012-05-10 16:09:46 <sipa> thanks all
 661 2012-05-10 16:09:56 <Diapolo> kinlo: What you mean?
 662 2012-05-10 16:10:12 <kinlo> Diapolo: might sound stupid, but I don't like the error messages that firefox gives me
 663 2012-05-10 16:10:31 <kinlo> they are almost as bad as ie nowadays
 664 2012-05-10 16:10:47 <kinlo> ie just says "server error or dns error" or something like that
 665 2012-05-10 16:10:53 <kinlo> you really have no clue why it failed
 666 2012-05-10 16:11:02 <kinlo> but firefox aint much better either
 667 2012-05-10 16:11:09 <Diapolo> kinlo: Well I don't see much of them so ... I consider this a minor glitch at max.
 668 2012-05-10 16:11:14 <kinlo> I like a technical reason why it failed
 669 2012-05-10 16:11:30 <luke-jr> I forget why I stopped using Firefox this last time
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 671 2012-05-10 16:11:33 <luke-jr> maybe it crashed too much
 672 2012-05-10 16:11:37 <kinlo> Diapolo: don't you want to know wether you couldn't connect due a connection refused or an internal server error?
 673 2012-05-10 16:11:41 <Diapolo> kinlo: Perhaps there is an Addon for this :)?
 674 2012-05-10 16:11:41 <luke-jr> oh, and the latest version doesn't build
 675 2012-05-10 16:11:52 <kinlo> if it's connection refused I know I just have to restart it
 676 2012-05-10 16:12:35 <Diapolo> kinlo: Even as IT-pro (kind of ^^) I'm fine with what I get ... if a server is down I can do research by myself.
 677 2012-05-10 16:12:38 <kinlo> Diapolo: I doubt if there is an addon, the core must support that
 678 2012-05-10 16:12:56 <kinlo> Diapolo: so do I, I open a terminal and do a wget - as wget gives me a reliable error
 679 2012-05-10 16:13:16 <kinlo> I don't like that step, coz when I have to help someone else it just takes too much time
 680 2012-05-10 16:13:29 <Diapolo> You could also use an addon to look into the HTTP headers e.g.
 681 2012-05-10 16:13:56 <kinlo> wouldn't tell me the difference between a dns error, timeout or connection refused
 682 2012-05-10 16:14:48 <gavinandresen> sipa:  Sleep(1) doesn't fix the 100% cpu bug
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 684 2012-05-10 16:14:53 <sipa> gavinandresen: i know
 685 2012-05-10 16:15:12 <sipa> gavinandresen: i've rewritten the waiting system using semaphores, testing it now
 686 2012-05-10 16:16:07 <luke-jr> nice
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 690 2012-05-10 16:24:16 <sipa> hmm, how should the interaction between -addnode and the connectioncount be?
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 696 2012-05-10 16:27:41 <jgarzik> sipa: addnode is IMO advisory: "please connect to this node, along with the others", much weaker than -connect's "you MUST connect only to <these> nodes"
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 698 2012-05-10 16:27:47 <jgarzik> sipa: so I wouldn't make it separate
 699 2012-05-10 16:28:01 <jgarzik> addnode in practice just adds an initial connection attempt
 700 2012-05-10 16:28:17 <sipa> not at all
 701 2012-05-10 16:28:33 <sipa> its semantics was changed some time ago to "try to maintain a connection to this node"
 702 2012-05-10 16:28:35 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: Bzzt.
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 705 2012-05-10 16:29:38 <gmaxwell> Yea. The old addnode behavior meant that it largely did nothing. Bluematt made a -addnodenoreally that was persistent... and at merge time it was decided that it should just replace addnode.
 706 2012-05-10 16:29:54 <sipa> it was originally called -keepnode, i think
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 708 2012-05-10 16:30:28 <gmaxwell> Thanks, couldn't remember.
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 721 2012-05-10 16:41:05 <helo> the qr code icon just looks like a fuzzy blob... suggesting again helo.org/qrcode.png
 722 2012-05-10 16:42:32 <gmaxwell> helo: open a pull request, don't just request on IRC. :)
 723 2012-05-10 16:42:45 <kinlo> is there a way to make a connect to automatically reconnect after a connection is lost?
 724 2012-05-10 16:42:47 <helo> yeah...
 725 2012-05-10 16:43:01 <kinlo> I now have to restart my bitcoind from time to time
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 727 2012-05-10 16:44:21 <gmaxwell> kinlo: huh? You're saying you have a -connect set and it doesn't reconnect on its own? It certantly should (and does for me). What OS?
 728 2012-05-10 16:45:51 <Diapolo> helo: That Icon got updated recently, are you talking about the current one?
 729 2012-05-10 16:46:30 <Diapolo> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/037a8daee68907b6258c2421a6f0d7265cd1b3ad/src/qt/res/icons/qrcode.png
 730 2012-05-10 16:47:03 <helo> ahh, yeah that one is just as good
 731 2012-05-10 16:47:08 <kinlo> gmaxwell: it should?
 732 2012-05-10 16:47:14 <sipa> twmz, gavinandresen: can you try compiling/running https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/tree/semaphores ?
 733 2012-05-10 16:47:29 <sipa> and tell whether it removes the 100% CPU issue
 734 2012-05-10 16:47:33 <kinlo> gmaxwell: I just restarted it if it wasn't having enough connections, but perhaps I should test wether it would reconnect automatically :p
 735 2012-05-10 16:47:37 <gavinandresen> sipa: sure
 736 2012-05-10 16:47:47 <kinlo> gmaxwell: I was under the impression it would never do that
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 738 2012-05-10 16:49:21 <gmaxwell> kinlo: 'wasn't having enough connections'  What exactly are you doing?  if you use -connect it should only have one connection out (to the node you told it to connect to)
 739 2012-05-10 16:50:14 <kinlo> gmaxwell: I use connect multiple times
 740 2012-05-10 16:50:16 <kinlo> gmaxwell: that does work fine :)
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 742 2012-05-10 16:50:34 <gmaxwell> Okay that too.
 743 2012-05-10 16:50:50 <gmaxwell> But then you should only have N connections. And it should keep them up.
 744 2012-05-10 16:51:02 <kinlo> yeah, 2 exactly
 745 2012-05-10 16:51:23 <kinlo> but sometimes I looked at it and it would be 1, so I restarted it, assuming it wouldn't do that by itself
 746 2012-05-10 16:52:41 <gavinandresen> sipa:  compiled, running now...
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 751 2012-05-10 16:58:03 <gmaxwell> kinlo: well the backoffs used for connect are brain damaged.
 752 2012-05-10 16:58:54 <kinlo> gmaxwell: I'll have a look at it and let you know if something is wrong with the connect
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 754 2012-05-10 16:59:01 <kinlo> it's production so I can't just test it
 755 2012-05-10 16:59:15 <gmaxwell> I have no clue what satoshi was thinking here.
 756 2012-05-10 16:59:24 <gavinandresen> sipa: 10 connections, 100% CPU
 757 2012-05-10 16:59:40 <gmaxwell> The time between retries on connect tend to infinity as the uptime of the node increases.
 758 2012-05-10 16:59:42 <sipa> grmbl
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 760 2012-05-10 17:00:24 <sipa> gavinandresen: can you find out where it's spending time now?
 761 2012-05-10 17:00:36 <kinlo> gmaxwell: so I need to restart the node to make reconnect work fast enough ? :)
 762 2012-05-10 17:00:58 <kinlo> that does sound stupid, however, not that big of an issue, I can tolerate that bitcoind being offline for a while
 763 2012-05-10 17:00:58 <gavinandresen> sipa:  maybe...
 764 2012-05-10 17:01:04 <gmaxwell> kinlo: well it should take a long time before its really slow.
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 766 2012-05-10 17:01:24 <kinlo> gmaxwell: as long as you guys keep releasing newer versions, that won't happen then :)
 767 2012-05-10 17:01:52 <sipa> gmaxwell: if i read the code correctly, it will very quickly be one attempt every 5s
 768 2012-05-10 17:02:05 <sipa> for -connect, if that's what you're still talking about
 769 2012-05-10 17:02:32 darkee has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 770 2012-05-10 17:02:39 <gmaxwell> sipa: okay apparently I am too stupid for code today. The && in my mind was becoming an or.
 771 2012-05-10 17:03:00 <gmaxwell> Well never mind then. indeed all is fine.
 772 2012-05-10 17:03:01 <kinlo> sipa: that would surprise me, in that case it would not be possible for me to see only 1 connection :)
 773 2012-05-10 17:03:17 <kinlo> oh well, ignore it, connect isn't for the regular user
 774 2012-05-10 17:03:19 <gmaxwell> kinlo: sure it would. It's failing to reconnect sometimes.
 775 2012-05-10 17:03:33 <kinlo> gmaxwell: my bitcoins are always online :)
 776 2012-05-10 17:03:41 <gmaxwell> kinlo: doesn't mean they aren't full.
 777 2012-05-10 17:03:44 <kinlo> bitcoind's*
 778 2012-05-10 17:04:07 <kinlo> gmaxwell: I assumed the limit was > 100, never got more then 20 connections on them
 779 2012-05-10 17:05:30 <gmaxwell> well look at your logs... because it does retry every 5 seconds.
 780 2012-05-10 17:06:30 <kinlo> I will if it happens again
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 782 2012-05-10 17:09:36 <gavinandresen> sipa: running again under valgrind --callgrind ....
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 788 2012-05-10 17:14:19 <sipa> gavinandresen: just gdb, wait untill 100%, interrupt somewhere, and see which thread is not sleeping?
 789 2012-05-10 17:14:31 <sipa> gavinandresen: (ok, i admit, i don't know callgrind)
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 791 2012-05-10 17:15:38 <gavinandresen> mmm.  callgrind isn't being extremely helpful, it says interprocess_semaphore.hpp:boost::interprocess::interprocess_semaphore::wait() is being called a bunch
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 793 2012-05-10 17:17:57 <sipa> pfff, i'm inclined to just write a wrapper around it that does Sleep(100) and checks from time to time
 794 2012-05-10 17:18:39 <gavinandresen> sipa: how do I get gdb to tell me which thread is not sleeping?
 795 2012-05-10 17:19:31 <sipa> gavinandresen: info threads
 796 2012-05-10 17:19:40 <gavinandresen> of course... (I trued show threads)
 797 2012-05-10 17:20:18 <b4epoche> sipa:  5420 in Safari 5.1.7
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 799 2012-05-10 17:20:53 <Cryo> you're still fighting the threading issue with sleep?
 800 2012-05-10 17:21:00 <gavinandresen> sipa: gdb isn't being very helpful either:  https://gist.github.com/2654539
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 804 2012-05-10 17:22:38 <gavinandresen> sipa: you don't suppose it's an issue that's been fixed in boost 1.49.... (I'm using 1.47)
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 808 2012-05-10 17:24:38 <Diapolo> http://www.boost.org/users/history/version_1_49_0.html
 809 2012-05-10 17:25:54 <gavinandresen> I'll deactivate 1.47 and compile 1.49, see if that fixes the issue.
 810 2012-05-10 17:26:30 <gavinandresen> (that'll take a while, though)
 811 2012-05-10 17:27:05 <sipa> i don't see anything related in the changelog
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 817 2012-05-10 17:34:41 <Cryo> fixes osx deadlock
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 826 2012-05-10 17:48:07 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: noted
 827 2012-05-10 17:48:09 <jgarzik> so
 828 2012-05-10 17:48:28 <gmaxwell> Cryo: deadlock?
 829 2012-05-10 17:48:48 <jgarzik> what is everybody's favorite python ECDSA module?  I see warner/python-ecdsa and pypi/ecdsa
 830 2012-05-10 17:48:52 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: ^^
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 834 2012-05-10 17:49:57 <Cryo> was reading the boost fixes
 835 2012-05-10 17:50:37 <gmaxwell> ah.
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 838 2012-05-10 17:58:09 * jgarzik stores a pickle'd (python serialized) python class inside an sqlite database, bastardizing sqlite as a key/value database.  Ewww...  but have other tables, so it works
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 843 2012-05-10 18:00:14 <sipa> jgarzik: *puke*
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 849 2012-05-10 18:17:00 <weex> jgarzik: seems legit
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 860 2012-05-10 18:35:43 <gavinandresen> sipa: no difference compiled against boost 1.49, still 100% cpu
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 875 2012-05-10 18:48:23 <sipa> gavinandresen: updated semaphores branch; it now uses a polling loop on OSX
 876 2012-05-10 18:49:11 <gavinandresen> sipa: compiling....
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 880 2012-05-10 19:00:04 <gavinandresen> sipa: 9 connections, less than 1% CPU time... looking good
 881 2012-05-10 19:00:39 <sipa> gavinandresen: i'm glad it already compiled the first time...
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 883 2012-05-10 19:01:11 <gavinandresen> can't be any bugs if it compiled the first time.....
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 889 2012-05-10 19:07:46 <sipa> gavinandresen: riiiight...
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 891 2012-05-10 19:08:55 <sipa> gavinandresen: i just hope mutexes still work on OSX...
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 893 2012-05-10 19:09:07 <sipa> even if condition variables and semaphores don't
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 901 2012-05-10 19:14:40 <sipa> gavinandresen: still compiles?
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 908 2012-05-10 19:20:46 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa opened pull request 1252 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1252>
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 949 2012-05-10 20:02:28 <Matt_von_Mises> For my bitcoin library I'm making would it make more sense to use big-endian bignums or little-endian? What would be most compatible? Seems bitcoin uses a mixture of big-endian and little-endian.
 950 2012-05-10 20:02:29 erle- has quit (Quit: erle-)
 951 2012-05-10 20:03:17 <sipa> internally, it's almost everywhere little-endian
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 953 2012-05-10 20:03:44 <sipa> some crypto encodings are big endian, but those are done by OpenSSL
 954 2012-05-10 20:06:28 <Matt_von_Mises> Hmm, it seems the bitcoinj library uses big-endian. I got carried away and was just copying that. I guess it would make more sense to use little-endian to avoid conversions. Thanks.
 955 2012-05-10 20:06:56 <TD> java is big endian
 956 2012-05-10 20:07:00 <TD> bitcoin is a mix of big and little
 957 2012-05-10 20:07:03 <TD> -> pain results
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 960 2012-05-10 20:08:33 <Matt_von_Mises> Big endian is nicer to visualise but it does cause issues with pointers and length adjustments
 961 2012-05-10 20:08:44 <Matt_von_Mises> I'll use little-endian. Makes sense.
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 964 2012-05-10 20:19:04 <gavinandresen> sipa: could you backport a minimal 100% CPU fix to the 0.6.2 branch?  cherry-picking pulls from 1252 doesn't work because they depend on post-0.6 changes...
 965 2012-05-10 20:19:27 <gavinandresen> I want to release a 0.6.2.something for osx to fix this one bug.
 966 2012-05-10 20:24:35 <sipa> i'm on it
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 970 2012-05-10 20:31:16 <sipa> gavinandresen: https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/tree/semaphores-v0.6.2
 971 2012-05-10 20:31:22 <sipa> (very minimally tested only)
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 973 2012-05-10 20:32:14 <gavinandresen> sipa: thanks
 974 2012-05-10 20:32:19 <gavinandresen> (i'll compile and test)
 975 2012-05-10 20:33:11 <sipa> segfault
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 984 2012-05-10 20:37:59 <sipa> fixed
 985 2012-05-10 20:38:44 <sipa> seems to work
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 995 2012-05-10 20:49:52 <gavinandresen> i hate c++ compiler error messages....
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 997 2012-05-10 20:50:09 <gavinandresen> sipa: compiler error here, let me see if I can figure out what it actually is...
 998 2012-05-10 20:50:13 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: I hate boost c++ compiler error messages
 999 2012-05-10 20:50:52 <gavinandresen> error is src/qt/qtipcserver.cpp line 33 ...
1000 2012-05-10 20:51:30 <BlueMatt> on osx? I thought that file was one big comment on osx?
1001 2012-05-10 20:52:18 <sipa> gavinandresen: muhuw?
1002 2012-05-10 20:52:18 <gavinandresen> the ipcInit() does nothing on OSX and Windows
1003 2012-05-10 20:52:22 <sipa> i didn't touch that
1004 2012-05-10 20:53:46 <Diapolo> I did touch this, but that's not in the master ^^.
1005 2012-05-10 20:54:55 <gavinandresen> sipa:  checking to see where it broke....
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1012 2012-05-10 21:03:29 <gavinandresen> sipa:  it's not you, I think boost 1.49 broke it
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1017 2012-05-10 21:08:56 <gmaxwell> er did githum just merge all the issues and pull requests?
1018 2012-05-10 21:09:01 <gmaxwell> er github
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1020 2012-05-10 21:10:17 <Diapolo> gmaxwell: no
1021 2012-05-10 21:10:40 <Diapolo> but it seems Githup is having a hickup today ^^
1022 2012-05-10 21:10:45 <Diapolo> -p +b
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1024 2012-05-10 21:10:56 <gmaxwell> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues  < this appears full of pull requests now
1025 2012-05-10 21:11:34 <sipa> it's just empty here
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1027 2012-05-10 21:12:10 <gavinandresen> that's the final straw!  We should move to gitorious!   (kidding, just trolling luke....)
1028 2012-05-10 21:12:13 <Diapolo> try to reload, they seem to change their layout / icons / graphics
1029 2012-05-10 21:12:19 <jgarzik> github has been spotty for the past several days
1030 2012-05-10 21:12:47 <jgarzik> clicking on sipa's IPv6 pull req would result in no discussion or commits.  <ctrl><shift><R> reload would usually fix it... but not always
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1033 2012-05-10 21:14:38 <sipa> gavinandresen: you mean you wouldn't like an empty issue list...?
1034 2012-05-10 21:15:00 <sipa> it's a feature!
1035 2012-05-10 21:15:06 <gavinandresen> rm -rf issues
1036 2012-05-10 21:15:10 <gavinandresen> done!
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1038 2012-05-10 21:15:48 <sipa> comparing HMAC-SHA512 in JavaScript vs OpenSSL: slowdown between 50x and 500x
1039 2012-05-10 21:16:01 * sipa cries
1040 2012-05-10 21:16:52 <gmaxwell> And OpenSSL's implementation is probably fast but not the fastest possible.
1041 2012-05-10 21:18:06 <sipa> the same is probably true about the two javascript implementations i tried
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1043 2012-05-10 21:18:47 <gavinandresen> sipa: testing semaphores-0.6.2 now....
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1050 2012-05-10 21:23:22 <gmaxwell> actually, looks like openssl is pretty good: http://bench.cr.yp.to/impl-hash/sha512.html
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1054 2012-05-10 21:25:31 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gavinandresen opened issue 1253 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1253>
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1057 2012-05-10 21:27:29 <Diapolo> sipa: Could be done on GPUs I guess, so we need WebCL ^^.
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1064 2012-05-10 21:32:58 <gavinandresen> sipa: semaphores-v0.6.2 seems to be working nicely, I want to let it run overnight, if there are no issues I'll tag a 0.6.2.2 make an osx .dmg file and update the binaries on sourceforge and links tomorrow
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1100 2012-05-10 22:10:50 <egecko> wow, the man in the middle attack vulnerability is still unaddressed.. and here i thought i was actually helping by keeping that info limited in distribution
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1102 2012-05-10 22:12:09 <sipa> ?
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1111 2012-05-10 22:15:22 <gmaxwell> sipa: he's talking about the http auth reuse.
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1113 2012-05-10 22:17:09 <jgarzik> json-rpc auth reuse?
1114 2012-05-10 22:17:35 <jgarzik> if you have remote hosts accessing your json-rpc, you have bigger problems than MITM
1115 2012-05-10 22:17:45 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: if you (for some crazy crackheaded reason) write a browser app that http auths to your bitcoin RPC port, another page can CSRF you to make rpc calls.
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1137 2012-05-10 22:53:30 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: well, that's easily fixed; but I agree with your crazy crackheaded idea
1138 2012-05-10 22:53:41 <luke-jr> (that is, it's stupid to auth to bitcoind in your browser)
1139 2012-05-10 22:54:22 <gmaxwell> I didn't see a clean way to fix it that wouldn't potentially screw up things that persist the connections.
1140 2012-05-10 22:54:37 <gmaxwell> egecko pointed out that IE will pass the CSRF request over the same socket.
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1142 2012-05-10 22:55:14 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: if Referrer, refuse?
1143 2012-05-10 22:55:21 <luke-jr> Referer*
1144 2012-05-10 22:55:36 <luke-jr> or do browsers let pages hide that now?
1145 2012-05-10 22:56:13 <gmaxwell> I think XmlHttpRequest requests won't have them.
1146 2012-05-10 22:56:19 <gmaxwell> (or will let them be forged)
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1148 2012-05-10 22:57:39 <gmaxwell> The standard way to prevent CSRF is to include some cookie that the attacker won't know. But thats sort of crazy for our purpose.
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1152 2012-05-10 23:05:21 <sipa> gmaxwell: if you want to find stuck node to sync with with a pre-BIP16-datemove node, to test the unstuck patch, see seeds.txt :)
1153 2012-05-10 23:05:49 <gmaxwell> oh brillian idea.
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1156 2012-05-10 23:14:11 <gmaxwell> pulling from someone with 05/10/12 23:09:52 version message: version 60000, blocks=176947
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1158 2012-05-10 23:14:47 <gmaxwell> sipa: I wonder if DNSseed was returning this node— I bet it was.
1159 2012-05-10 23:15:07 <gmaxwell> Hell, I bet thats actually trapping some new users on startup if indeed we can't reorg off it still.
1160 2012-05-10 23:15:32 <gmaxwell> e.g. first node you connect is some stuck node, now you're stuck too.
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1163 2012-05-10 23:21:11 <sipa> but as soon as another node you're connected to tells you about the real chain, you should be fine
1164 2012-05-10 23:21:19 <sipa> the side chains aren't ever long, are they
1165 2012-05-10 23:21:20 <sipa> ?
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1167 2012-05-10 23:23:05 <gmaxwell> sipa: if it was long enough to prevent the stuck node from unsticking why isn't it long enough to prevent you from doing the same?
1168 2012-05-10 23:24:59 <sipa> gmaxwell: because the stuck node remains stuck if the new chain is >500 blocks long, but it will never get those in its main chain
1169 2012-05-10 23:25:16 <sipa> even if the side chain is only 1 block long
1170 2012-05-10 23:25:55 <sipa> while the bootstrapping node will just the side chain, never having heard about the new long chain (so it can't be marked already downloaded, preventing further download)
1171 2012-05-10 23:26:10 <sipa> ").correctGrammar();
1172 2012-05-10 23:26:29 <gmaxwell> ah. duh. Today is a mentally slow day for me.
1173 2012-05-10 23:26:33 <sipa> the first time the new node hears about the real chain, it will just download it and accept it
1174 2012-05-10 23:27:20 <sipa> but you're quite right my dns seed should check for reasonable number of blocks
1175 2012-05-10 23:28:37 <sipa> maybe i could link it up with bitcoind, now getblockhash() exists
1176 2012-05-10 23:28:53 <sipa> and request some random recent block
1177 2012-05-10 23:29:02 <gmaxwell> Thats a grand idea.
1178 2012-05-10 23:30:07 <gmaxwell> if the height is high enough request a random block from 3-6 back or so just to make sure it's on the same chain as you.
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1180 2012-05-10 23:38:49 <jgarzik> Loading wallet...
1181 2012-05-10 23:38:49 <jgarzik> nFileVersion = 69900
1182 2012-05-10 23:38:49 <jgarzik> Performing wallet upgrade to 60000
1183 2012-05-10 23:38:57 <jgarzik> sipa: ^^ is this normal for brand new wallets?
1184 2012-05-10 23:39:25 <jgarzik> seems a bit strange to "upgrade" a wallet that did not exist before the current program run
1185 2012-05-10 23:40:45 <jgarzik> and "Added 10 addresses from 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0: 0 tried, 10 new" is interesting
1186 2012-05-10 23:42:02 <sipa> jgarzik: haha; agree, reporting could be better
1187 2012-05-10 23:42:17 <sipa> in both cases
1188 2012-05-10 23:42:47 <sipa> if it's ::0, it should just be hidden (and it should be ::0, not 0:0:0:...)
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1193 2012-05-10 23:56:18 <jgarzik> sipa: is the importprivkey format actually documented anywhere?
1194 2012-05-10 23:56:48 peck has joined
1195 2012-05-10 23:56:49 <sipa> jgarzik: it's on the wiki, and here: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=CAPg%2BsBhDFCjAn1tRRQhaudtqwsh4vcVbxzm%2BAA2OuFxN71fwUA%40mail.gmail.com&forum_name=bitcoin-development
1196 2012-05-10 23:57:03 <jgarzik> sipa: do I have this right:  <version byte> <base58-encoded 256 bits> <last 4 bytes of sha256 checksum> ?
1197 2012-05-10 23:57:11 <Matt_von_Mises> "inline bool DecodeBase58(const char* psz, std::vector<unsigned char>& vchRet)" What would the largest length be for psz?
1198 2012-05-10 23:57:32 <sipa> jgarzik: yes, for uncompressed ones
1199 2012-05-10 23:57:47 <sipa> jgarzik: for compressed ones, there is a 0x01 byte after the 256 bits
1200 2012-05-10 23:59:39 <sipa> Matt_von_Mises: currently used, 52 characters