1 2012-05-11 00:00:21 <Matt_von_Mises> I figured out 51, not including the termination character. I guess 52 includes the termination character?
  2 2012-05-11 00:00:38 <sipa> Matt_von_Mises: see what i told jgarzik the line above
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  6 2012-05-11 00:01:24 <Matt_von_Mises> Oh right so an extra byte making it 53 including termination character?
  7 2012-05-11 00:01:28 <sipa> yes
  8 2012-05-11 00:01:38 <Matt_von_Mises> Thanks.
  9 2012-05-11 00:01:51 <sipa> but it may be used for longer data structures in the future, maybe
 10 2012-05-11 00:02:51 <splatster> Any easy way to get a recent version of bitcoind on debian?
 11 2012-05-11 00:03:12 <splatster> aptitude only has a 0.3.x version available
 12 2012-05-11 00:06:35 <gmaxwell> sipa: fetching a recent block from the peers you probe would also let you avoid giving out useless halfnodes that just exist for monitoring purposes.
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 19 2012-05-11 00:29:33 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: jgarzik opened pull request 1254 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1254>
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 35 2012-05-11 01:26:55 <helo> About Bitcoin: Bitcoin version vCLIENT_VERSION_MAJOR.CLIENT_VERSION_MINOR.
 36 2012-05-11 01:27:25 <helo> oO
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 46 2012-05-11 02:00:12 <jgarzik> and that's why it's nice to have a built-in CPU miner...
 47 2012-05-11 02:00:30 * jgarzik turns on CPU mining to test some stuff... far easier to have it work internally for testnet-in-a-box type situations
 48 2012-05-11 02:01:58 <jgarzik> "difficulty" : 0.06249911
 49 2012-05-11 02:02:20 <Garr255Mobi> haha. testnet isnfun to play around with.
 50 2012-05-11 02:04:57 <jgarzik> it looks like testnet spits out 2-3 blocks per hour. not too bad...
 51 2012-05-11 02:05:04 <jgarzik> _someone_ is mining on there at least
 52 2012-05-11 02:06:35 <jgarzik> hrm
 53 2012-05-11 02:06:37 <jgarzik> 05/11/12 02:03:47 version message: version 40000, blocks=47476
 54 2012-05-11 02:06:47 <jgarzik> 05/11/12 02:03:48 version message: version 50100, blocks=47476
 55 2012-05-11 02:06:57 <jgarzik> these nodes seem stuck...  curious
 56 2012-05-11 02:07:05 <jgarzik> different node, different version, same testnet block
 57 2012-05-11 02:07:27 <sipa> jgarzik: finally figured out why my version.cpp macro magic didn't work anymore for exported archives
 58 2012-05-11 02:07:37 <sipa> (the problem reported by helo above)
 59 2012-05-11 02:07:46 <sipa> you changed the version macros to consts :)
 60 2012-05-11 02:07:53 <jgarzik> 05/11/12 02:04:48 version message: version 32400, blocks=47476
 61 2012-05-11 02:07:58 <jgarzik> another one
 62 2012-05-11 02:08:01 <sipa> (and i didn't pay attention...)
 63 2012-05-11 02:08:39 <jgarzik> sipa: doh
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 66 2012-05-11 02:13:04 <luke-jr> jgarzik: I don't have any trouble doing TNIAB + Eloipool + BFGMiner, FWIW
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 72 2012-05-11 02:28:07 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa opened pull request 1255 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1255>
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 74 2012-05-11 02:33:08 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sgaltsev reopened issue 1231 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1231>
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 84 2012-05-11 02:59:38 <splatster> Any easy way to get a recent version of bitcoind on debian?
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 86 2012-05-11 03:00:45 <luke-jr> splatster: no, I brought it to their attention and the guy complained that it wasn't a bug.
 87 2012-05-11 03:00:58 <luke-jr> nevermind that the version they have in there has known exploits etc
 88 2012-05-11 03:01:02 <luke-jr> -.-
 89 2012-05-11 03:01:22 <splatster>  Umm, that sucks.
 90 2012-05-11 03:01:45 <splatster> Anyone want to put together a aptitude source for debian?
 91 2012-05-11 03:02:24 <splatster> luke-jr: ^ ;)
 92 2012-05-11 03:02:33 <luke-jr> splatster: not really, no
 93 2012-05-11 03:03:09 <splatster> Well, what are you doing right now?
 94 2012-05-11 03:03:32 <splatster> IRC vs. helping out debian bitcoin users
 95 2012-05-11 03:03:33 <luke-jr> splatster: it seems I have some major changes to make to BIP 22
 96 2012-05-11 03:03:46 <splatster> :(
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103 2012-05-11 03:34:48 <nanotube> splatster: there's a ppa on launchpad already
104 2012-05-11 03:35:41 <splatster> nanotube: I thought the PPA was for bitcoin-qt, not bitcoind.
105 2012-05-11 03:36:09 <luke-jr> more importantly, the PPA is Ubuntu, not Debian
106 2012-05-11 03:37:15 <nanotube> splatster: dunno, i thought it had both.
107 2012-05-11 03:37:20 <nanotube> luke-jr: i'm sure it'll work on debian just fine.
108 2012-05-11 03:37:36 <nanotube> well, s/sure/think that it will with a high probability/ :)
109 2012-05-11 03:37:57 <luke-jr> did BlueMatt update it since 0.6.0 yet?
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116 2012-05-11 03:50:32 <splatster> Well, nvm, I just built it myself so w/e.
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118 2012-05-11 03:53:08 <nanotube> dunno, i don't use the ppa myself, luke-jr :)
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121 2012-05-11 04:01:51 <freewil> luke-jr, yes
122 2012-05-11 04:01:55 <freewil> the ppa is at 0.6.2
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125 2012-05-11 04:10:45 <gmaxwell> splatster: we don't do builds of "bitcoin-qt, not bitcoind"
126 2012-05-11 04:11:10 <gmaxwell> (unless mac is still that way, but I thought we fixed that)
127 2012-05-11 04:24:47 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: all OS packaging is of course that way
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129 2012-05-11 04:24:55 <luke-jr> bitcoind and bitcoin-qt are separate packages
130 2012-05-11 04:25:06 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: but they're both built from the same parent package
131 2012-05-11 04:25:26 <Diablo-D3> (in debian, this would be a deb-src)
132 2012-05-11 04:25:45 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: that's somewhat silly, since they don't share object files
133 2012-05-11 04:26:28 <Diablo-D3> no, thats what lib packages are for.
134 2012-05-11 04:26:35 <Diablo-D3> or common for non-object shared files
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137 2012-05-11 04:40:00 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ppa is 0.6.2
138 2012-05-11 04:40:24 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: as a sidenote, Im looking at making a debian package archive (now that Im on debian...)
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152 2012-05-11 05:09:13 <luke-jr> anyone know what endian txids are in, off the top of their head?
153 2012-05-11 05:09:35 <Diablo-D3> uh
154 2012-05-11 05:09:36 <Diablo-D3> what?
155 2012-05-11 05:09:38 <TuxBlackEdo> little
156 2012-05-11 05:09:43 <Diablo-D3> oh, WHICH endian
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158 2012-05-11 05:09:47 <Diablo-D3> its little
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160 2012-05-11 05:09:53 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin is fucktarded and does everything in little
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162 2012-05-11 05:10:33 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: http://frank.harvard.edu/~coldwell/toolchain/bigendian.html
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165 2012-05-11 05:11:04 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: yeah, but network endian is big
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168 2012-05-11 05:11:56 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: no, Bitcoin does some things in little, some things in big, and some things in "big for 32-bit chunks, but little for the whole thing"
169 2012-05-11 05:12:16 <gmaxwell> Yes, because SUN used to be very important when many things were created (and even before sun BE was popular for historical reasons, but it's not anymore). OTOH, most IETF protocols are text based and avoid endianness entirely.
170 2012-05-11 05:12:36 <gmaxwell> The inconsistency is worse than not using BE itself.
171 2012-05-11 05:12:39 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: yeah, but text is big endian,
172 2012-05-11 05:12:45 <Diablo-D3> oh, and that url of yours?
173 2012-05-11 05:12:53 <Diablo-D3> it brings up POWER bizzaro ordering
174 2012-05-11 05:13:01 <forrestv> the only big thing is port in addresses, right?
175 2012-05-11 05:13:28 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: you disappoint.
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177 2012-05-11 05:13:40 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: are you seriously arguing LE is better because it works with bugs?
178 2012-05-11 05:14:09 <luke-jr> forrestv: no
179 2012-05-11 05:14:14 <forrestv> then what?
180 2012-05-11 05:14:15 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: it's easier to write width independant code for LE. It takes less code, and it results in less bugs.
181 2012-05-11 05:14:33 <luke-jr> there is no "width independent code"
182 2012-05-11 05:14:56 <gmaxwell> If you really want to complain, argue about the redundancy in the varints... esp inside stuff that gets signed, as that presents a risk that if you deseralize and reseralize that you'll get something different.
183 2012-05-11 05:15:02 <Diablo-D3> LE is better because this is what the majority of CPUs use
184 2012-05-11 05:15:12 <Diablo-D3> virtually all arms and mips are sold as LE
185 2012-05-11 05:15:21 <Diablo-D3> and thats like 95% of cpus manufed right there
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187 2012-05-11 05:15:51 <luke-jr> BE is better because the majority of CPUs use LE
188 2012-05-11 05:15:53 <luke-jr> <.<
189 2012-05-11 05:16:06 <luke-jr> (and therefore BE forces people to write non-buggy code)
190 2012-05-11 05:16:20 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: ... I just spent the last 4 years writing a 50kloc codec which works on devices where int is 16,32,64 and where char is 8,16 and it does this with almost no IFDEFs, and without excessive width mandating everything.  There really is width independant code.
191 2012-05-11 05:16:49 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: /me salutes you
192 2012-05-11 05:17:03 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: btw, why the fuck isnt ssize_t defined on linux?
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195 2012-05-11 05:18:18 <gmaxwell> (it also works with BE/LE too, but thats pretty easy when you only read and write byte chunks)
196 2012-05-11 05:18:45 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: it is, if you include the right header
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198 2012-05-11 05:19:25 <Diablo-D3> I thought I was including pretty much every c99 header
199 2012-05-11 05:19:46 <Diablo-D3> because theres a few places I'd rather use ssize_t over normal pointer math
200 2012-05-11 05:20:07 <jgarzik> Diablo-D3: ssize_t is of course defined on linux
201 2012-05-11 05:20:27 <jgarzik> it's a bloody return value for read(2) and many other system calls
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204 2012-05-11 05:21:55 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: well wtf
205 2012-05-11 05:21:56 <Diablo-D3> where is it
206 2012-05-11 05:22:05 <jgarzik> Diablo-D3: it's a type.  #include <sys/types.h>
207 2012-05-11 05:22:25 <Diablo-D3> well wtf, Im pretty sure Im including that header
208 2012-05-11 05:24:08 <jgarzik> hum, blockexplorer.com is stuck a few blocks back
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210 2012-05-11 05:25:01 <Diablo-D3> http://caspar.adterrasperaspera.com/cgit/libugh.git/tree/src/libugh/base/stdinc.h
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252 2012-05-11 07:06:51 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened issue 1256 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1256>
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317 2012-05-11 09:41:55 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1257 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1257>
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322 2012-05-11 09:57:49 <Twitchy> I've been attempting to use the mtgox api to retrieve my mtgox account stats, etc. But for some reason when I'm using the given PHP code here - https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/MtGox/API/HTTP - I get an error saying im not logged in, can anyone help?
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328 2012-05-11 10:05:44 <TuxBlackEdo> Twitchy, #mtgox
329 2012-05-11 10:06:01 <Graet> Twitchy, #mtgox has its own chan, this is the Bitcoin dev chanel :)
330 2012-05-11 10:06:06 <Graet> oops beaten :P
331 2012-05-11 10:08:26 <Twitchy> ta
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353 2012-05-11 10:38:07 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1258 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1258>
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357 2012-05-11 10:43:11 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1259 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1259>
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414 2012-05-11 12:51:28 <sipa> jgarzik: any suggestions wrt IPV6_V6ONLY?
415 2012-05-11 12:53:21 <sipa> from what i read, OSX is always v6only
416 2012-05-11 12:53:35 <sipa> same on windows xp
417 2012-05-11 12:53:50 <sipa> more recents windowses have the option, but default to on
418 2012-05-11 12:54:15 <sipa> linux has the option, and most distro's set v6only to off by default
419 2012-05-11 12:54:35 <drizztbsd> sipa: *BSD and OSX is IPV6 by defaul
420 2012-05-11 12:54:40 agricocb has joined
421 2012-05-11 12:54:45 <drizztbsd> and you can't clear it
422 2012-05-11 12:54:54 <drizztbsd> 22 (EINVAL)
423 2012-05-11 12:55:12 <drizztbsd> do you need some test under bsd?
424 2012-05-11 12:55:19 <sipa> no, i google; i have no bsd or osx
425 2012-05-11 12:55:55 <sipa> drizztbsd: IPV6 by default, you mean IPV6-only by default?
426 2012-05-11 12:57:37 <drizztbsd> yes, if you use AF_INET6
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428 2012-05-11 12:57:51 <sipa> ok, good
429 2012-05-11 12:58:14 <sipa> i'll make it IPV6_V6ONLY on every platform, and listen separately for v4 and v6
430 2012-05-11 12:58:40 <drizztbsd> are you porting bitcoin to ipv6?
431 2012-05-11 12:59:34 <sipa> yes
432 2012-05-11 12:59:39 <sipa> mostly done already
433 2012-05-11 12:59:45 <sipa> it's already partially merged even
434 2012-05-11 13:02:45 <drizztbsd> by the way setsockopt(s, IPPROTO_IPV6, IPV6_V6ONLY, (char *)&on, sizeof(on)); works on BSD
435 2012-05-11 13:02:52 <drizztbsd> but you can't clear it
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437 2012-05-11 13:02:58 <sipa> ok, good
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457 2012-05-11 13:25:24 <davout> whoops, zhoutong did it again http://is.gd/WbGopV
458 2012-05-11 13:26:44 <sipa> my god...
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463 2012-05-11 13:36:39 <SphericalCow> wow
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466 2012-05-11 13:37:31 <sipa> drizztbsd: care to try if it builds/works on BSD? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1021
467 2012-05-11 13:38:02 <Diablo-D3> not that made up shit again
468 2012-05-11 13:38:02 erle- has joined
469 2012-05-11 13:38:25 <Diablo-D3> I should delete that thread and have bitcoinica banned from the forums
470 2012-05-11 13:38:42 <Diablo-D3> I dont believe in any of that made up fairy tale shit
471 2012-05-11 13:38:51 <Diablo-D3> its not even a scam, I dont think its even a real website
472 2012-05-11 13:39:05 <Diablo-D3> Ive never seen this "bitcoinica" site
473 2012-05-11 13:39:23 <Diablo-D3> just more lies and bullshit
474 2012-05-11 13:39:42 LittleDuke has joined
475 2012-05-11 13:40:53 <Lexa> Diablo-D3: maybe because you use DNSSEC? they have an invalid DNSSEC config on their site, if it is this one, see http://dnsviz.net/d/bitcoinica.com/dnssec/
476 2012-05-11 13:41:01 bob12321 has joined
477 2012-05-11 13:41:18 <Diapolo> sipa: What triggers a block-chain rescan on startup or better how is decided how many blocks get checked?
478 2012-05-11 13:41:18 <Diablo-D3> Lexa: they dont even have a url listed anywhere
479 2012-05-11 13:41:29 * Eliel wonders what Diablo-D3 is going on about.
480 2012-05-11 13:42:01 <Diablo-D3> Eliel: the guy who owns bitcoinica is claiming someone stole his money
481 2012-05-11 13:42:27 <Eliel> no, not yet, he isn't.
482 2012-05-11 13:42:28 <sipa> Diapolo: there's a pointer to the last seen best block in the wallet
483 2012-05-11 13:42:39 <Diablo-D3> dont care
484 2012-05-11 13:42:45 <Diablo-D3> Im going to ask theymos to ban them I think
485 2012-05-11 13:43:23 <Diapolo> sipa: So something like Rescanning last 7844 blocks (from block 163193)... is normal?
486 2012-05-11 13:43:31 <sipa> yes
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491 2012-05-11 13:44:50 <drizztbsd> sipa: yes but only bitcoind (I have not X on that machine)
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493 2012-05-11 13:44:53 <Diapolo> sipa: Well, it seams fstream.read() is a lot slower than fread() or I have a strange bug in my code ... perhaps you can look at it when I updated the branch over the next few days?
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495 2012-05-11 13:45:47 <sipa> drizztbsd: sure, i haven't tried compiling the gui even yet
496 2012-05-11 13:46:00 <drizztbsd> Should I use https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin.git branch ipv6 directly?
497 2012-05-11 13:46:19 <sipa> drizztbsd: i don't care how you use git :)
498 2012-05-11 13:48:34 <pierre`> Diablo-D3: bitcoinica seems to be a scam or a company managed by incompetents.
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500 2012-05-11 13:50:54 <wumpus> you got to give it to him ,though, zhoutong is very honest ... a lot of sites would have swept this under the rug
501 2012-05-11 13:51:53 <sipa> if he really is 17, he is a genius. the question is whether he is a naive genius, or an evil genius :)
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505 2012-05-11 14:01:20 <wumpus> only a very thin line between those :-)
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523 2012-05-11 15:04:30 <clr_> Can someone help me debug longpolling code?
524 2012-05-11 15:11:20 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa opened pull request 1260 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1260>
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529 2012-05-11 15:33:16 <luke-jr> do we want to keep "/P2SH/" in coinbases still?
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532 2012-05-11 15:35:46 <sipa> i'd say keep it as long as there is no 95% support
533 2012-05-11 15:40:28 <luke-jr> fwiw, stable versions never included it
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538 2012-05-11 15:52:57 <gavinandresen> sipa: I uploaded a 0.6.2.2 binary just for OSX. I didn't grab your very latest changes because I didn't want to re-test.
539 2012-05-11 15:53:26 <sipa> luke-jr: i don't think there's a functional ipv6 network yet
540 2012-05-11 15:53:34 <sipa> we'd need seednodes, DNS seeds, ...
541 2012-05-11 15:54:03 guruvan has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
542 2012-05-11 15:54:08 <luke-jr> sipa: oh :<
543 2012-05-11 15:54:38 <sipa> 0.6.0+ nodes (should) pass on IPv6 addresses, but without critical mass that can find eachother, they would get lost in the abundance of IPv4 addresses
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545 2012-05-11 15:55:53 <sipa> gmaxwell: had any chance in verifying unstuck?
546 2012-05-11 15:59:02 <gmaxwell> sipa: still pulling a fork chain (slowly)
547 2012-05-11 16:02:24 <drizztbsd> sipa: it works
548 2012-05-11 16:02:32 <drizztbsd> drizzt   bitcoind   13883 14 tcp4   *:8333                *:*
549 2012-05-11 16:02:34 <drizztbsd> drizzt   bitcoind   13883 15 tcp6   *:8333                *:*
550 2012-05-11 16:02:44 <sipa> ah, nice!
551 2012-05-11 16:02:45 <sipa> thanks
552 2012-05-11 16:02:55 <drizztbsd> sorry for the delay but I'm at work :)
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554 2012-05-11 16:06:36 <jgarzik> sipa: when a new semOutbound is created inside OpenNetworkConnection()...  where is it stored, and when is it deallocated?
555 2012-05-11 16:06:47 <jgarzik> sometimes C++ implicit actions are not obvious when reading a patch :)
556 2012-05-11 16:07:55 <jgarzik> sipa: oh, and you forgot to 'git add sync.cpp'
557 2012-05-11 16:08:12 <jgarzik> sipa: so your commit is missing that entire file, AFAICS
558 2012-05-11 16:10:49 <luke-jr> drizztbsd: what's your IP?
559 2012-05-11 16:10:53 * jgarzik checks to see if bitseed.xf2.org supports AAAA addresses
560 2012-05-11 16:11:32 <jgarzik> yep
561 2012-05-11 16:11:49 <jgarzik> I can see AAAA to bitseed.xf2.org.  Any static IPv6 addresses for bitcoin...  let me know.
562 2012-05-11 16:12:00 <jgarzik> s/see/add/
563 2012-05-11 16:12:09 <sipa> i intend to add a seed6.bitcoin.sipa.be
564 2012-05-11 16:13:02 <sipa> jgarzik: it's not created inside OpenNetworkConnection but by the called; it's given to ONC, and if that succeeds, that passes the lock to the created Node
565 2012-05-11 16:13:27 <sipa> afterwards, it is either released by the caller of ONC (when the object goes out of scope), or when the node object is deleted
566 2012-05-11 16:13:35 <sipa> s/called/caller/
567 2012-05-11 16:13:52 <jgarzik> sipa: pointers created by 'new' are not released when scope disappears
568 2012-05-11 16:14:01 <jgarzik> sipa: trying to find deletion point...
569 2012-05-11 16:14:54 <sipa> jgarzik: oh you mean the CSemaphore object, not CSemaphoreGrant ?
570 2012-05-11 16:15:09 <jgarzik> sipa: correct
571 2012-05-11 16:15:09 <sipa> the semaphore is only created in StartNode
572 2012-05-11 16:15:18 <jgarzik> sipa: semOutbound symbol, as I stated
573 2012-05-11 16:15:22 <sipa> right
574 2012-05-11 16:15:33 <sipa> no delete; there should probably be one in StopNode, though
575 2012-05-11 16:16:13 <gavinandresen> sipa: I think you forgot to git add sync.h/sync.cpp
576 2012-05-11 16:16:36 <sipa> gavinandresen: yes, jgarzik already told me; rebuilding and adding
577 2012-05-11 16:17:11 <sipa> updated
578 2012-05-11 16:17:53 <sipa> jgarzik: there's no semOutbound anywhere in ONC, by the way
579 2012-05-11 16:18:10 <jgarzik> sipa: just typing that :)  read patch wrong, and thought it was a temp var, rather than a static var
580 2012-05-11 16:18:31 <jgarzik> sipa: all good
581 2012-05-11 16:18:33 <sipa> the variables you're looking for are probably called 'grant'
582 2012-05-11 16:19:35 <jgarzik> sipa: yeah, already saw that part.  I didn't see 'StartNode' bit in patch chunk header, and thought that bit of code was part of ONC.
583 2012-05-11 16:19:41 <jgarzik> sipa: as part of StartNode(), it is indeed correct
584 2012-05-11 16:20:49 <sipa> luke-jr: running a torhs node on [2001:0:53aa:64c:2850:600e:af37:e874]:8333, if you like to try
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586 2012-05-11 16:21:04 <sipa> (not that the torhs part matters too much, but it includes ipv6)
587 2012-05-11 16:22:01 <jgarzik> sipa: does your ipv6 patch yet cover DNS seeds?
588 2012-05-11 16:22:06 <sipa> no
589 2012-05-11 16:22:29 <sipa> well, it does request V6 addresses from the seeds
590 2012-05-11 16:22:54 <sipa> but i'd prefer having dedicated v6 seeds
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592 2012-05-11 16:23:19 <jgarzik> sipa: why?
593 2012-05-11 16:23:30 toffoo has quit ()
594 2012-05-11 16:23:40 <jgarzik> sipa: nothing wrong with overloading a name, or having one query return both A and AAAA
595 2012-05-11 16:23:49 <jgarzik> sipa: one query + one response is more efficient
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597 2012-05-11 16:24:12 <jgarzik> let the DNS seeds choose
598 2012-05-11 16:24:20 <sipa> if your node supports v6, you definitely want some v6 results
599 2012-05-11 16:24:53 <jgarzik> sipa: that's a temporary policy that will go away once ipv6 reaches a steady state
600 2012-05-11 16:25:06 <sipa> and old nodes may also request with type=ANY, but will discard part of the rest
601 2012-05-11 16:25:10 <sipa> *result
602 2012-05-11 16:25:33 <jgarzik> sipa: that's definitely in the realm of DNS seed policy.  current code is just fine, and will work for seeds that return A + AAAA.
603 2012-05-11 16:25:41 <jgarzik> sipa: no objection to adding your v6-only seed though
604 2012-05-11 16:25:48 <sipa> the bitcoin-ipv6 network may well be 100x smaller for the next year or so
605 2012-05-11 16:26:08 <sipa> i don't want to only get an ipv6 response from the seeds once every few attempts
606 2012-05-11 16:26:44 <sipa> but if requested an ANY address, the reasonable policy is for the seed to return results in proportion to what exists
607 2012-05-11 16:27:45 <sipa> i see the ipv6 network really as a separate network from the ipv4 network; it just happens to overlap pretty well with a subset of the old one, and most nodes functioning as proxies between the networks
608 2012-05-11 16:28:01 <sipa> and as a separate network, it needs a separate seeding
609 2012-05-11 16:28:07 <jgarzik> sipa: all of that is in the realm of the seed owner's policy, ultimately.  for the bitcoin codebase, existing netbase.cpp code + some v6-specific seeds suffice.
610 2012-05-11 16:28:28 <sipa> some v6-specific seeds is all i'm arguing for :)
611 2012-05-11 16:28:30 <jgarzik> sipa: bitseed.xf2.org will -always- return both A and AAAA, for everybody
612 2012-05-11 16:28:43 <jgarzik> (once I add AAAA records)
613 2012-05-11 16:28:59 <luke-jr> sipa: brackets needed?
614 2012-05-11 16:29:09 <sipa> luke-jr: preferred
615 2012-05-11 16:29:29 <sipa> if it's unambiguous, they are optional
616 2012-05-11 16:30:33 <luke-jr> when is it ambiguous? O.o
617 2012-05-11 16:30:47 <sipa> 2001:0:53aa:64c:2850:600e:af37:e874
618 2012-05-11 16:30:55 <sipa> that :e874 cannot be interpreted as a port number
619 2012-05-11 16:31:47 <sipa> jgarzik: i'm not arguing for separating the seeds entirely, but some v6-specific ones are necessary (at least during initial adoption, but probably useful afterwards as well)
620 2012-05-11 16:33:05 zooko has joined
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622 2012-05-11 16:34:02 <luke-jr> tcp6       0      0 2001:470:5:265:22:36503 2001:0:53aa:64c:28:8333 ESTABLISHED
623 2012-05-11 16:35:10 <sipa> which code version is that?
624 2012-05-11 16:35:17 <sipa> your node identified itself using its ipv4 address
625 2012-05-11 16:35:28 <sipa> oh, wait, it should!
626 2012-05-11 16:35:40 <sipa> i'm on teredo, so it prefers giving me an ipv4 one
627 2012-05-11 16:36:01 <luke-jr> sipa: next-test + some private stuff
628 2012-05-11 16:36:45 <sipa> Added 1 addresses from 2001:470:5:265:222:4dff:fe50:4c49: 102 tried, 11527 new
629 2012-05-11 16:37:42 <luke-jr> sipa: is it possible to tell my node to only give IPv6 over IPv6 etc?
630 2012-05-11 16:37:54 <luke-jr> I'd rather not let people link my v6 to my v4
631 2012-05-11 16:38:49 <jgarzik> luke-jr: it seems unwise to pretend one node is really two nodes
632 2012-05-11 16:39:02 <jgarzik> lead to redundant traffic
633 2012-05-11 16:39:09 <jgarzik> redundant connections
634 2012-05-11 16:39:39 theymos has joined
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637 2012-05-11 16:42:20 <jgarzik> sipa: adding some v6-only seeds is fine
638 2012-05-11 16:42:48 occulta has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
639 2012-05-11 16:43:33 <sipa> luke-jr: you can make your node entirely v6-only, but separating the networks is not possible (for now)
640 2012-05-11 16:43:39 <helo> so any ipv6 node could trivially appear to the network as thousands of unique nodes?
641 2012-05-11 16:44:03 <sipa> helo: yes, but nodes will only attempt an outgoing connection to one
642 2012-05-11 16:44:30 <helo> by that you mean "normal nodes will only attempt to connect to one ipv6 node"?
643 2012-05-11 16:44:54 <sipa> it will only connect to one address per /16 on IPv4 and one address per /32 on IPv6
644 2012-05-11 16:45:10 <helo> ahh, good
645 2012-05-11 16:45:50 <sipa> also, addrman first select a number of buckets per /16 or /32, and then randomly chooses one from them to store the actual address
646 2012-05-11 16:46:13 <sipa> this means someone spamming you with addresses all from the same /32, will only ever touch a subset of buckets
647 2012-05-11 16:46:39 <theymos> Is /32 big enough? Everyone gets assigned a /64 AFAIK.
648 2012-05-11 16:46:53 <sipa> theymos: a /32 is significantly larger than a /64 :)
649 2012-05-11 16:47:09 <theymos> oh whoops
650 2012-05-11 16:47:14 <luke-jr> theymos: everyone gets assigned a /48
651 2012-05-11 16:47:39 <luke-jr> so IPv6 /24 would be the logical equivalent to IPv4 /16
652 2012-05-11 16:47:43 rebroad has joined
653 2012-05-11 16:47:51 <sipa> /24 is too large, i'm afraid
654 2012-05-11 16:48:06 <helo> won't it still be pretty easy for a big organization to have huge numbers of unique /32's?
655 2012-05-11 16:48:32 <luke-jr> helo: just like it's pretty easy for big corps to have large numbers of unique /16s…
656 2012-05-11 16:49:27 <sipa> i think you need about 40 to have a reasonable chance for dirtying an entire addrman table
657 2012-05-11 16:49:46 <luke-jr> sipa: I think the problem is more of all 8 connections
658 2012-05-11 16:50:49 <sipa> ?
659 2012-05-11 16:51:01 <luke-jr> sipa: if they can get all 8 connections, they can do ugly things
660 2012-05-11 16:51:16 <sipa> to get all 8 connections, they need to dirty your address table
661 2012-05-11 16:51:19 <luke-jr> has anyone reviewed #1240, before I rebase it?
662 2012-05-11 16:51:32 <sipa> not yet
663 2012-05-11 16:51:38 <luke-jr> sipa: not all of it, just enough to get 8 connections :p
664 2012-05-11 16:51:41 <helo> luke-jr: are the ratios (centrally controlled ipv4 /16s)/(legit nodes) vs (centrally controlled ipv6 /32s)/(legit nodes) about the same?
665 2012-05-11 16:51:55 <sipa> helo: unsure
666 2012-05-11 16:52:24 <sipa> if there's a good database of independent network, i wouldn't mind using it to decide outgoing network connections
667 2012-05-11 16:52:37 <luke-jr> look up ASNs? :p
668 2012-05-11 16:52:52 <sipa> last time i checked that was hard/large
669 2012-05-11 16:53:19 <luke-jr> DHT! oh wait…
670 2012-05-11 16:53:38 <sipa> hahaha
671 2012-05-11 16:53:41 <helo> so we need to start publishing our ipv6 addresses in the WoT :/
672 2012-05-11 16:53:49 <sipa> helo: ?
673 2012-05-11 16:54:20 <sipa> luke-jr: you're going to run an ipv6 node for the time being now?
674 2012-05-11 16:54:24 <sipa> with a static ip?
675 2012-05-11 16:54:42 <helo> i.e. build node list organically based on trust relationships, instead of randomly
676 2012-05-11 16:54:49 <luke-jr> sipa: no promises it's 24/7; I'll try to set a permanent one up for #Bitcoin-Watch and Eligius sometime
677 2012-05-11 16:55:32 <helo> assuming large orgs interested in controlling/monitoring bitcoin will represent a large proportion of arbitrarily selected nodes
678 2012-05-11 16:55:35 <sipa> i'll switch mine on bitcoin.sipa.be to IPv6 soon; if we have some nodes, i guess we can add a list of static IPv6 seeds in the code
679 2012-05-11 16:55:48 rebroad has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
680 2012-05-11 16:55:50 <luke-jr> sipa: to clarify, my home node is *mostly* 24/7, but I do stop/restart it when I'm developing
681 2012-05-11 16:55:56 <sipa> ic
682 2012-05-11 16:56:27 <luke-jr> I could give you future IPv6 addresses for #Bitcoin-Watch and Eligius if that helps
683 2012-05-11 16:58:04 <sipa> if they're not operational, it doesn't make much sense to do so untill we do a release with IPv6 support
684 2012-05-11 16:58:30 _Fireball has joined
685 2012-05-11 16:58:37 setkeh is now known as SETKEHSCAT
686 2012-05-11 17:01:13 * jgarzik needs to poke MagicalTux for IPv6 on his servers
687 2012-05-11 17:04:26 Nachtwind has joined
688 2012-05-11 17:05:27 <Nachtwind> hi, i have a small question regarding Transactions. When i send n Bitcoins from User A to user B. Will i always end up having two outputs in that transaction with n Bitcoins and one with fee Bitcoins?
689 2012-05-11 17:06:26 <sipa> you'll have one output to B, one output to yourself, and the different between the inputs and the outputs is fee
690 2012-05-11 17:06:50 <Nachtwind> oh, ok
691 2012-05-11 17:06:52 <sipa> unless you have an input of exactly the size you want to send to B, in that case no change output to yourself should be created
692 2012-05-11 17:07:20 <Nachtwind> but i will always end up having one output showing the full amount n?
693 2012-05-11 17:07:28 Clipse has quit (Quit: Clipse)
694 2012-05-11 17:07:59 <sipa> yes, but people will not necessarily be able to know whether that's the payment or the change
695 2012-05-11 17:08:07 <sipa> they are in random order
696 2012-05-11 17:08:20 <Nachtwind> oh, thats ok for me
697 2012-05-11 17:08:39 <Nachtwind> wonderful, makes it a bit more easier for me
698 2012-05-11 17:08:43 <Nachtwind> thanks for the help :0)
699 2012-05-11 17:08:46 Clipse has joined
700 2012-05-11 17:09:53 <drizztbsd> luke-jr: why?
701 2012-05-11 17:10:16 <luke-jr> drizztbsd: I was going to addnode, but sipa gave me his :p
702 2012-05-11 17:10:32 <drizztbsd> oh ok :P
703 2012-05-11 17:10:44 <drizztbsd> I'm too natted at work
704 2012-05-11 17:11:01 <drizztbsd> (2 nats, without port forwarding or upnp)
705 2012-05-11 17:11:12 rebroad has joined
706 2012-05-11 17:11:54 Nachtwind has left ("Verlassend")
707 2012-05-11 17:12:01 <luke-jr> I meant v6
708 2012-05-11 17:14:11 <drizztbsd> ohhh
709 2012-05-11 17:15:03 Erdon has joined
710 2012-05-11 17:24:20 <drizztbsd> what is the best (cheap) vps in bitcoins?
711 2012-05-11 17:25:01 <drizztbsd> Actually I'm using a dedicated server (kimsufi( at ovh
712 2012-05-11 17:25:06 <drizztbsd> but I want to change :P
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716 2012-05-11 17:37:00 <neofutur> drizztbsd: ask on #bitcoin-hosting
717 2012-05-11 17:37:11 <neofutur> I recommend http://gw.gd/bitcoin_vps
718 2012-05-11 17:37:23 <neofutur> good irc support on #bitvps
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728 2012-05-11 17:51:49 <Joric> mmm... almost $75, sweet https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=80815.msg892825
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731 2012-05-11 17:53:05 <drizztbsd> I prefer chromium extensions
732 2012-05-11 17:53:12 <drizztbsd> more easy to develop and more performance
733 2012-05-11 17:54:25 <Joric> i barely use firefox nowadays
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736 2012-05-11 17:55:55 <luke-jr> Joric: you can detect base58 addresses too
737 2012-05-11 17:57:31 rebroad has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
738 2012-05-11 17:57:31 <Joric> luke-jr, you mean, via the firefox extension?
739 2012-05-11 17:57:57 <luke-jr> Joric: I presume
740 2012-05-11 17:58:38 <luke-jr> pretty much, just look for words matching [13][[:base58:]]{26,35}
741 2012-05-11 17:58:40 <luke-jr> or whatever
742 2012-05-11 17:58:48 <luke-jr> chances are it's a bitcoin address
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744 2012-05-11 18:00:15 <Joric> didn't write a single firefox extension in my life
745 2012-05-11 18:00:30 <Joric> though guess it's a piece of cake
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750 2012-05-11 18:05:07 <zooko> sipa: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/ is not answering ping for me, nor HTTP
751 2012-05-11 18:05:36 <zooko> Hm, or is it DNS lookup failure. What's the IP address?
752 2012-05-11 18:06:36 <Joric> note ajax can't open sites without Access-Control-Allow-Origin header, not sure electrum servers have it, i use proxy server, it's not very cool
753 2012-05-11 18:07:11 <zooko> Hm, or is it that the coffeeshop network I'm on just stopped giving me IP service to my DNS server ...
754 2012-05-11 18:07:15 <Joric> if electrum would have Access-Control-Allow-Origin: true it would be possible to fetch data directly
755 2012-05-11 18:08:29 <Joric> erm, '*', not 'true'
756 2012-05-11 18:08:33 <copumpkin> zooko: 178.18.90.41
757 2012-05-11 18:08:35 <copumpkin> not a vhost, either
758 2012-05-11 18:09:50 <zooko> I think it was a problem on my end.
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761 2012-05-11 18:14:22 <luke-jr> would anyone object to a -freerelay option, to make GetMinFee return 0 for relaying?
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769 2012-05-11 18:30:15 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: laanwj opened pull request 1261 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1261>
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786 2012-05-11 19:07:11 * luke-jr wonders what happens when debug.log hits 4 GB
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798 2012-05-11 19:45:37 <davout> luke-jr: division by zero which instantly summons a black hole into existence
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808 2012-05-11 20:20:14 <jgarzik> sipa gmaxwell: sorry to bring this up again, but gmaxwell was a bit vague :)  what are the ipv6 blockers at this point?
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840 2012-05-11 21:35:18 <helo> are there any plans to make generating and injecting transactions from offline wallets easier with the 'official' client?
841 2012-05-11 21:35:47 <gmaxwell> helo: absolutely. Or at least so much as anything can be called plans when he code doesn't exist yet.
842 2012-05-11 21:35:58 <gmaxwell> s/he/the/
843 2012-05-11 21:36:28 <gmaxwell> Though in principle you can't 'generate' a transaction from a totally disconnected node.
844 2012-05-11 21:36:50 <gmaxwell> At least not a transaction reflecting inputs that it doesn't know about.
845 2012-05-11 21:37:24 <helo> so transporting inputs to the offline machine might be step #1
846 2012-05-11 21:37:51 <gmaxwell> What I expect us to implement is the ability to setup keys as watch-only in an online node. The online node can then craft transactions, which you then carry to the offline node for signing, and then carry the result back for injection.
847 2012-05-11 21:37:52 <helo> well, facilitating such an export
848 2012-05-11 21:38:15 <gmaxwell> (the export for signing would ship out the copies of the inputs so the offline node could correctly display the amounts/fees)
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850 2012-05-11 21:38:30 <helo> yeah, that would be pretty nice
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852 2012-05-11 21:39:49 <gmaxwell> When combined with the HDwallet proposal it should be possible to have an offline device be some very small/low memory microcontroller system. too..
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863 2012-05-11 22:02:43 <xenland> Why is it when i do "listtransactions" I see that I sent 0.00205001 but it says that I receieved 0.00205001 yet the fee was 0.005 ? Why would it report the amount recieved is the same?
864 2012-05-11 22:04:09 <xenland> http://pastebin.com/Pv11iUL1
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866 2012-05-11 22:05:07 <sipa> jgarzik: i'm fine with pulling ipv6 now
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879 2012-05-11 22:24:26 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1262 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1262>
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890 2012-05-11 22:39:36 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1263 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1263>
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902 2012-05-11 23:04:53 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: can you give Sgornick delete powers on the wiki? he's trying to clean up spam, but can only rename it :/
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904 2012-05-11 23:16:51 <MagicalTux> k
905 2012-05-11 23:20:19 <gmaxwell> sipa: when logtimestamps the timestamps are emitted by printf directly. However, some entries always have timestamps and they get double stamps when logtimestamps is enabled.
906 2012-05-11 23:21:29 <gmaxwell> sipa: Diapolo is trying to fix it by turning off the redundant ones when logtimestamps is set... I think we should just nix the always on messages instead.
907 2012-05-11 23:23:41 <sipa> ooh, now i see
908 2012-05-11 23:24:13 <sipa> i thought his double timestamps were caused by two threads simultaneously trying to produce debug output
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