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4 2012-05-15 00:04:48 <sipa> i understand it, and speak it a bit, but he's probably better off in a -fr channel
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11 2012-05-15 00:27:41 <Joric> http://i.imgur.com/wGUTG.gif <- 'code refactoring'
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13 2012-05-15 00:29:03 <lianj> Joric: only without testsuites
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53 2012-05-15 02:12:49 <rcorreia> In test/rpc_tests.cpp:
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55 2012-05-15 02:13:01 <rcorreia> 18 Array addresses;
56 2012-05-15 02:13:01 <rcorreia> 19 if (address1) addresses.push_back(address1);
57 2012-05-15 02:13:01 <rcorreia> 20 if (address2) addresses.push_back(address1);
58 2012-05-15 02:13:15 <rcorreia> should the last line be this instead:
59 2012-05-15 02:13:18 <rcorreia> 20 if (address2) addresses.push_back(address2);
60 2012-05-15 02:13:20 <rcorreia> ?
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67 2012-05-15 02:29:52 <osmosis_> gmaxwell, i have a use case for my suggestion around locking an address to not be spent.
68 2012-05-15 02:30:23 <osmosis_> gmaxwell, im holding some coins for someone, and I point them to the blockchain with the address showing that the coins exist. I sign a msg to prove that I am holding that address.
69 2012-05-15 02:31:11 one_zero has joined
70 2012-05-15 02:31:16 <osmosis_> as long as the coins stay in that address, my associate knows the coins are still there. In order to do this currently requires me having multiple wallet.dat files and moving files around manually. No way to do this within the client.
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73 2012-05-15 02:42:15 <luke-jr> do P2SH scriptCheck sigops count toward the limit of the redeeming block?
74 2012-05-15 02:43:08 <luke-jr> they do. crap.
75 2012-05-15 02:45:27 <luke-jr> guess I just found a p2pool vuln then
76 2012-05-15 02:46:23 <luke-jr> a minor one, since it depends on txn spam
77 2012-05-15 02:46:36 * luke-jr wonders how much such a txn would cost
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80 2012-05-15 02:51:33 <forrestv> luke-jr, hurry up and get that getmemorypool revision finished <.<
81 2012-05-15 02:52:22 <gmaxwell> osmosis_: thanks. Thats a good way to put it.
82 2012-05-15 02:52:34 <gmaxwell> I have varrious public adresses I've segregated for that reason.
83 2012-05-15 02:52:39 JZavala has joined
84 2012-05-15 02:52:47 <BlueMatt> is 0.6.2 mac-only, or is it everything now?
85 2012-05-15 02:52:57 blumenkraft has quit (Quit: KVIrc KVIrc Equilibrium 4.1.3, revision: 5988, sources date: 20110830, built on: 2011-11-24 12:34:38 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/)
86 2012-05-15 02:53:05 * BlueMatt has been on vacation for a few days, will be back tomorrow
87 2012-05-15 02:56:21 zooko has joined
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89 2012-05-15 03:00:12 <Diablo-D3> NASA astronauts launching from Cosmodrome at 11pm EDT http://identi.ca/url/69744824
90 2012-05-15 03:00:39 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: whats up with 0.6.2?
91 2012-05-15 03:01:27 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: ... What do you mean whats up with it? It's out. It's being widely adopted. We shiped a critcial security advisory urging people to upgrade right away today.
92 2012-05-15 03:01:43 <luke-jr> forrestv: it's mostly stable now I think?
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94 2012-05-15 03:01:53 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: http://bitcoin.org/dos.html
95 2012-05-15 03:01:56 <forrestv> ah
96 2012-05-15 03:02:04 <BlueMatt> oh, sorry I was thinking 0.6.2.2...
97 2012-05-15 03:02:13 <BlueMatt> nvm...
98 2012-05-15 03:02:18 <BlueMatt> 0.6.2.2 is osx-only, though?
99 2012-05-15 03:02:52 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: yes 0.6.2.2 is OSX only.
100 2012-05-15 03:03:05 <BlueMatt> ok, just wanted to make sure
101 2012-05-15 03:03:08 Garr255Mobi has joined
102 2012-05-15 03:03:13 <gmaxwell> And basically replaces 0.6.2 for OSX (fixes the 0.6.1 busy wait regression)
103 2012-05-15 03:03:18 <BlueMatt> yea
104 2012-05-15 03:03:22 zooko has joined
105 2012-05-15 03:03:30 <BlueMatt> just wanted to make sure I wasnt missing a ppa upgrade
106 2012-05-15 03:03:33 <gmaxwell> (apparently freebsd was also hit by that but we dont ship freebsd binaries)
107 2012-05-15 03:03:36 <gmaxwell> ::nods::
108 2012-05-15 03:04:25 <Diablo-D3> lift off
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145 2012-05-15 04:44:58 <gmaxwell> http://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2012/05/bitcoins-worth-87000-plundered/ links to http://eprint.iacr.org/2012/248.pdf , claiming " although a recently published research paper reports limitations that allow the same bitcoins can be double spent"
146 2012-05-15 04:45:24 <gmaxwell> and the 'paper', I guess a preprintâ bogusly claims that the bitcoin developers recomment people accept unconfirmed transactions.
147 2012-05-15 04:45:45 <gmaxwell> s/recomment/recommend/
148 2012-05-15 04:46:08 <gmaxwell> We should probably publish a statement correcting this factual inaccuracy.
149 2012-05-15 04:46:28 <BlueMatt> and probably send ars a correction
150 2012-05-15 04:47:12 <BlueMatt> that paper looks kinda cool, though, because they actually test the listening period stuff
151 2012-05-15 04:47:16 <BlueMatt> (or so it looks)
152 2012-05-15 04:47:23 <gmaxwell> Indeed, but they're exagerating the importance of it.
153 2012-05-15 04:47:49 <BlueMatt> fair enough, I was just skimming
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155 2012-05-15 04:48:11 <gmaxwell> Bitcoin developers claim in [6] that
156 2012-05-15 04:48:11 <gmaxwell> the cost of mounting double-spending attacks for
157 2012-05-15 04:48:11 <gmaxwell> low-cost transactions is comparatively high and that
158 2012-05-15 04:48:11 <gmaxwell> vendors could adopt a listening period for few sec-
159 2012-05-15 04:48:11 <gmaxwell> onds before delivering a product to counter double-
160 2012-05-15 04:48:14 <gmaxwell> spending attacks.
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162 2012-05-15 04:48:21 <gmaxwell> [6] is just a generic link to the FAQ page on the wiki.
163 2012-05-15 04:48:27 <BlueMatt> heh
164 2012-05-15 04:48:34 <BlueMatt> so send the authors an email
165 2012-05-15 04:49:22 <luke-jr> well, it's true that "accept zero confirms for cheap stuff" is the answer usually given to "but confirmations are slow"
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167 2012-05-15 04:50:20 <BlueMatt> do they do a listening period peered with miners?
168 2012-05-15 04:50:46 <BlueMatt> ^ that is the usual response, not just lisening
169 2012-05-15 04:50:55 <BlueMatt> (or, at least, the one I always give)
170 2012-05-15 04:51:39 <gmaxwell> The software itself only shows transactions confirmed at six blocks.
171 2012-05-15 04:52:10 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: I grepped my logs in #bitcoin and can find many people being told to wait 2-6 transactions. (Actually this just happed a few minutes ago before I saw that paper)
172 2012-05-15 04:52:37 <BlueMatt> anyway, someone should send the authors of that paper an email, getting someone to write a paper on the security of peering with miners would be nice
173 2012-05-15 04:52:52 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: often, 2-6 confirms is too long
174 2012-05-15 04:52:59 <luke-jr> people want their coffee *now*
175 2012-05-15 04:53:35 <BlueMatt> thats why you do a risk analysis and use a 3-rd party tx insurance provider who peers with miners
176 2012-05-15 04:53:48 <BlueMatt> and/or has substantial mining capabilities themselves
177 2012-05-15 04:54:08 <gmaxwell> The initial version of the response in the FAQ was rounded than the one authors of the paper would have seen: https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=FAQ&diff=next&oldid=7094
178 2012-05-15 04:54:41 <gmaxwell> and geesh someone needs to show them how to cite wikis.
179 2012-05-15 04:55:20 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: we should _never_ advise people to accept zero confirms... gpumax has made finnyattacks cheap and easy.
180 2012-05-15 04:55:34 <gmaxwell> (well accept from people they have normal recourse against, of course)
181 2012-05-15 04:56:06 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: sometimes it's 1 BTC at 0 confirms, or no BTC *shrug*
182 2012-05-15 04:56:26 <gmaxwell> Here is the version the authors of the paper would have read: https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=FAQ&oldid=25163#Do_you_have_to_wait_10_minutes_in_order_to_buy_or_sell_things_with_Bitcoin.3F
183 2012-05-15 04:56:30 <gmaxwell> which is indeed crap.
184 2012-05-15 04:56:30 <luke-jr> that's one reason to broadcast double-spends
185 2012-05-15 04:56:43 <gmaxwell> It isâ but that doesn't help you with finney attacks.
186 2012-05-15 04:57:20 <luke-jr> well, even with GPUMAX, don't you still need to spend about 100 BTC on 2 blocks?
187 2012-05-15 04:57:51 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: 50 BTC on one block and you keep it! thats the thing about a finny attack, no reversal is required.
188 2012-05-15 04:58:24 <gmaxwell> I mine while sitting at your order page. I solve a block sending my payment back to me, quickly I finish the order sending a conflicting payment to you.. then I announce the block.
189 2012-05-15 04:58:38 <gmaxwell> The only think I lose is the small increase in orphan risk from the delay.
190 2012-05-15 04:58:49 <gmaxwell> Which I can make ~0 if you process my payment fast and I automate it.
191 2012-05-15 04:59:23 <gmaxwell> and no amount of doublespend announcing helpsâ because it's already too late by the time the doublespend is visible.
192 2012-05-15 04:59:45 <TuxBlackEdo> i have a question
193 2012-05-15 05:00:53 <TuxBlackEdo> there is more then one nounce that could be valid for the same block (which includes the same txns), right?
194 2012-05-15 05:01:20 <TuxBlackEdo> nonce*
195 2012-05-15 05:04:36 <gmaxwell> sometimes.
196 2012-05-15 05:04:46 <gmaxwell> usually there are zero valid nonces.
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198 2012-05-15 05:05:50 <TuxBlackEdo> but it would never get stuck because there are incoming transactions
199 2012-05-15 05:06:18 <TuxBlackEdo> what if there are no new transactions, does the timestamp help against getting stuck with no solution?
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203 2012-05-15 05:13:06 <gmaxwell> TuxBlackEdo: yes, but even more than that there is a second nonce inside the coinbase... the software increments that when the nonce space is exausted and the time isn't new yet.
204 2012-05-15 05:13:33 <TuxBlackEdo> ah ok thanks
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207 2012-05-15 05:16:59 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: do you know of any sites that accept zero confirmation txn? Perhaps I should perform a finney attack (with consent) to make a demonstration video .. because apparently people are not well informed.
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267 2012-05-15 06:47:53 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: jgarzik opened issue 1312 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1312>
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298 2012-05-15 08:27:13 <gmaxwell> FWIW, blockchain.info now appears to be evading blocks of their collector IPs.
299 2012-05-15 08:27:27 <gmaxwell> (since it's reporting txn relayed through my nodes that block their /24)
300 2012-05-15 08:32:38 RainbowDashh has joined
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302 2012-05-15 08:34:42 <Graet> blockchain.info properly broken now
303 2012-05-15 08:34:45 da2ce7 has joined
304 2012-05-15 08:35:20 <t7> why ?
305 2012-05-15 08:35:37 <Graet> dont know, nice cats tho :/
306 2012-05-15 08:35:44 <t7> bitonica ?
307 2012-05-15 08:36:05 <Graet> Error 500
308 2012-05-15 08:36:05 <Graet> If you believe this to be a mistake please contact support@pi.uk.com.
309 2012-05-15 08:36:13 <t7> when did they become master miners
310 2012-05-15 08:36:25 <Graet> who?
311 2012-05-15 08:36:31 <t7> bitonica
312 2012-05-15 08:36:36 <Graet> <Graet> blockchain.info properly broken now
313 2012-05-15 08:36:37 <t7> is that a split
314 2012-05-15 08:36:37 <Joric> so it has come to this
315 2012-05-15 08:36:47 <Graet> no the sites screwed
316 2012-05-15 08:37:09 <Graet> it happens regularly . and it isnt definitive
317 2012-05-15 08:37:22 <t7> CHAIN SPLIT!
318 2012-05-15 08:37:25 <t7> PANIC!
319 2012-05-15 08:37:31 <Joric> blockchain info should be checked for 'expect mass leak soon'
320 2012-05-15 08:37:35 <Graet> http://blockorigin.pfoe.be/top.php this is more accurate
321 2012-05-15 08:37:47 gfinn has joined
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323 2012-05-15 08:38:25 <t7> 'mining team reddit'.... kill me now
324 2012-05-15 08:38:47 <Joric> t7, u mostly mined there
325 2012-05-15 08:38:51 <Joric> *me
326 2012-05-15 08:39:07 <Joric> what's wrong with mining team reddi
327 2012-05-15 08:39:10 tcatm has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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332 2012-05-15 08:40:19 <t7> i imagine its full of overly politicly correct wankers
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345 2012-05-15 08:59:05 <kinlo> can anyone tell me what the difference is betwen version 0.6.2 and 0.6.2.2?
346 2012-05-15 08:59:36 <Diablo-D3> some mac related fixes
347 2012-05-15 09:00:21 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
348 2012-05-15 09:06:01 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
349 2012-05-15 09:08:51 <kinlo> yeah, can't find a changelog
350 2012-05-15 09:10:31 <Diablo-D3> its build problems
351 2012-05-15 09:10:34 agricocb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
352 2012-05-15 09:10:36 <Diablo-D3> nothing relevant
353 2012-05-15 09:15:52 mumstein has quit (!~mumak@pat-ip-195-91-55-191.gprs.as5628.telecom.sk|Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
354 2012-05-15 09:16:31 <kinlo> ic, thanks
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356 2012-05-15 09:22:36 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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360 2012-05-15 09:29:05 <sipa> kinlo: a 100% cpu issue because we used a locking primitive that was implemented as a spinlock on OSX
361 2012-05-15 09:30:17 <kinlo> ic
362 2012-05-15 09:30:20 <kinlo> thanks
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371 2012-05-15 09:44:25 <davout> hey
372 2012-05-15 09:44:59 <davout> is it just me or doesn't listtransactions allow to query for all transactions no matter the account when specifying a tx count ?
373 2012-05-15 09:45:15 <davout> listtransactions [account] [count=10] [from=0]
374 2012-05-15 09:45:22 <davout> Returns up to [count] most recent transactions skipping the first [from] transactions for account [account].
375 2012-05-15 09:45:48 <davout> i want all the txes in the wallet, so i want to set count to some really high value
376 2012-05-15 09:46:05 <davout> but then the account parameter demands a value, "" doesn't work :/
377 2012-05-15 09:47:09 da2ce7 has joined
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379 2012-05-15 09:49:02 <sipa> try "*"
380 2012-05-15 09:49:31 <davout> already tried, I get "type mismatch"
381 2012-05-15 09:50:05 <davout> same with just *
382 2012-05-15 09:50:26 <davout> also tried "\"*\"" no success either :/
383 2012-05-15 09:50:30 <sipa> hmm
384 2012-05-15 09:50:44 * davout heads to github
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387 2012-05-15 09:53:22 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: davout opened issue 1313 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1313>
388 2012-05-15 09:53:36 <davout> gribble: that's right bitch
389 2012-05-15 09:53:39 <davout> :D
390 2012-05-15 09:54:26 <davout> sipa: thank you very much for confirming i'm not crazy and i didn't overlook something obvious
391 2012-05-15 09:54:58 <sipa> i'll have a look at the code in a minjte
392 2012-05-15 09:55:01 <sipa> minute
393 2012-05-15 09:56:51 graingert_ has joined
394 2012-05-15 10:00:03 <davout> sipa: sweet!
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399 2012-05-15 10:01:18 localhost has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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401 2012-05-15 10:03:21 <sipa> davout: can't test here with a wallet, but ./bitcoind listtransactions "*" 10
402 2012-05-15 10:03:24 <sipa> works
403 2012-05-15 10:03:29 <sipa> (though the result is empty)
404 2012-05-15 10:03:34 <davout> oh yes
405 2012-05-15 10:03:49 <davout> that's not really what i'm expecting :)
406 2012-05-15 10:04:13 <sipa> but you said you get a type error?
407 2012-05-15 10:04:24 <davout> oh
408 2012-05-15 10:04:27 <davout> on some
409 2012-05-15 10:04:29 <davout> hang on
410 2012-05-15 10:04:54 graingert__ has joined
411 2012-05-15 10:04:58 <davout> * -> type mismatch
412 2012-05-15 10:05:02 localhost has joined
413 2012-05-15 10:05:13 <davout> '*' -> type mismatch
414 2012-05-15 10:05:26 <davout> "*" -> type mismatch
415 2012-05-15 10:05:31 graingert_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
416 2012-05-15 10:05:37 <sipa> can you give the full command line?
417 2012-05-15 10:05:43 <davout> yeah
418 2012-05-15 10:05:53 <drizztbsd> davout: * is expanded by the shell, you have to quote it :P
419 2012-05-15 10:06:03 <davout> $ ./bitcoin listtransactions "" 100
420 2012-05-15 10:06:04 datagutt has joined
421 2012-05-15 10:06:15 <davout> and this, returns transactions belonging to the 100 account
422 2012-05-15 10:06:36 <davout> this is getting more and more confusing
423 2012-05-15 10:06:49 graingert has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
424 2012-05-15 10:06:56 <davout> i'm relaunching Instawallet's client, I'll confirm the exact client version
425 2012-05-15 10:07:32 <sipa> davout: it should return the 100 first results of the "" account
426 2012-05-15 10:07:39 <davout> yes
427 2012-05-15 10:07:42 graingert has joined
428 2012-05-15 10:08:09 <sipa> is that wrong?
429 2012-05-15 10:08:58 <davout> i tried that and it returned transactions belonging to the "100" account :D
430 2012-05-15 10:09:14 <davout> (that was on bitcoin-central's client)
431 2012-05-15 10:09:22 <davout> it's a slightly patched client
432 2012-05-15 10:09:30 <davout> adds monitortx calls
433 2012-05-15 10:09:34 danbri has joined
434 2012-05-15 10:09:40 <davout> and monitorblock
435 2012-05-15 10:09:41 <sipa> i see no way how that could happen, looking at the code
436 2012-05-15 10:09:59 <davout> i'll run a couple more tests against my instance
437 2012-05-15 10:10:17 <davout> so on instawallets client i get version 60099
438 2012-05-15 10:10:22 danbri has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
439 2012-05-15 10:10:27 danbri has joined
440 2012-05-15 10:10:56 <davout> based on master from like a month ago
441 2012-05-15 10:11:12 <davout> $ ./bitcoin listtransactions "" 100
442 2012-05-15 10:11:22 graingert__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
443 2012-05-15 10:11:24 <davout> this yields an empty JSON array
444 2012-05-15 10:12:30 danbri__ has joined
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446 2012-05-15 10:13:20 <sipa> well, do you have transactions in the "" account?
447 2012-05-15 10:13:36 <davout> no
448 2012-05-15 10:13:42 <davout> i don't use accounts at all
449 2012-05-15 10:13:50 <davout> i assumed "" was the default account
450 2012-05-15 10:14:25 <sipa> yes, it is
451 2012-05-15 10:14:39 <davout> and it's instawallet's bitcoin client
452 2012-05-15 10:14:44 <sipa> and just listtransactions works?
453 2012-05-15 10:14:51 <davout> so it has like thousands of txes
454 2012-05-15 10:14:53 <davout> yes
455 2012-05-15 10:15:00 danbri has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
456 2012-05-15 10:15:05 <davout> it does, but i can only fetch 10, the default
457 2012-05-15 10:15:07 Clipse has joined
458 2012-05-15 10:15:14 <sipa> and ./bitcoind listtransactions "*" 100
459 2012-05-15 10:15:14 <sipa> ?
460 2012-05-15 10:15:34 <davout> type mismatch
461 2012-05-15 10:15:40 <davout> oh wait a second
462 2012-05-15 10:16:07 <davout> the "bitcoin" in my command is a bash script
463 2012-05-15 10:16:19 <davout> which contains apart form the shebang a single line
464 2012-05-15 10:16:40 <davout> "/home/bitcoin/instawallet/bitcoind -conf=/home/bitcoin/instawallet/bitcoin.conf -datadir=/home/bitcoin/instawallet/data"
465 2012-05-15 10:16:49 <davout> without the quotes
466 2012-05-15 10:16:59 <sipa> and it doesn't pass the arguments down? :s
467 2012-05-15 10:17:16 <davout> "/home/bitcoin/instawallet/bitcoind -conf=/home/bitcoin/instawallet/bitcoin.conf -datadir=/home/bitcoin/instawallet/data $@"
468 2012-05-15 10:17:22 <davout> sorry missed the last part
469 2012-05-15 10:17:29 <sipa> you need quotes around $@
470 2012-05-15 10:17:35 <davout> do i?
471 2012-05-15 10:17:38 <sipa> otherwise it gets interpreted by the shell
472 2012-05-15 10:17:46 mmoya has joined
473 2012-05-15 10:17:52 <sipa> and you'll get exactly what you observed
474 2012-05-15 10:18:09 <sipa> "" becomes no-argument-at-all
475 2012-05-15 10:18:16 <davout> oh
476 2012-05-15 10:18:20 <sipa> and * becomes a list of files in the current directory
477 2012-05-15 10:18:20 <davout> dang
478 2012-05-15 10:18:37 <davout> i feel so stupid now :/
479 2012-05-15 10:18:44 <sipa> also, that -conf is not necessary
480 2012-05-15 10:18:52 <davout> thank you so much
481 2012-05-15 10:18:53 <sipa> it picks the config file in the datadir by default
482 2012-05-15 10:19:27 agricocb has joined
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484 2012-05-15 10:20:23 <davout> thanks for the tips, and sorry for the loss of time
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528 2012-05-15 11:28:34 <kinlo> does blockchain.info has a testnet version?
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534 2012-05-15 11:38:06 <freewil> kinlo: not sure, but block explorer does http://blockexplorer.com/testnet
535 2012-05-15 11:41:48 <kinlo> I know about blockexplorer, but blockchain gives more info
536 2012-05-15 11:42:47 <davout> libbitcoin isn't used at all in the satoshi client right ?
537 2012-05-15 11:43:05 <davout> they're like orthogonal if i understand correctly
538 2012-05-15 11:43:09 <freewil> correct that is a separate project
539 2012-05-15 11:43:21 danbri has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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541 2012-05-15 11:44:09 <freewil> i think the main idea with libbitcoin is to separate out and decouple the logic so it can be used more easily in custom projects
542 2012-05-15 11:44:22 <freewil> everything is so tightly coupled with the satoshi client
543 2012-05-15 11:44:43 <sipa> davout: libbitcoin is not a year old
544 2012-05-15 11:44:48 zooko has joined
545 2012-05-15 11:44:56 <davout> sipa: i know :)
546 2012-05-15 11:45:28 <davout> if i understand correctly the awesome thing with it is that it's fully asynchronous
547 2012-05-15 11:46:54 <sipa> i know genjix paid a lot of attention to that, yes
548 2012-05-15 11:47:16 <sipa> bluematt's cblockstore will also make the satoshi code more asynchronous, though
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557 2012-05-15 12:01:33 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: fanquake opened pull request 36 on bitcoin/bitcoin.org <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/pull/36>
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580 2012-05-15 13:13:16 * MrTiggr knock, knock phantomcircuit
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593 2012-05-15 14:04:12 <sipa> ;;bc,tslb
594 2012-05-15 14:04:15 <gribble> Time since last block: 5 minutes and 31 seconds
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598 2012-05-15 14:09:24 <jgarzik_> wow, sure am seeing a lot of orphan TX's right now
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606 2012-05-15 14:14:29 <sipa> i'm trying to construct a stuck blockchain
607 2012-05-15 14:14:58 <sipa> though i should probably have done so on testnet, as it may not require me to mine a stale block...
608 2012-05-15 14:15:04 <sipa> *now
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610 2012-05-15 14:16:12 <helo> fuzzing?
611 2012-05-15 14:16:34 <sipa> nah, added a rule that made one particular block invalid at connecting
612 2012-05-15 14:16:44 <sipa> then redownloaded the chain
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624 2012-05-15 14:30:00 <sipa> seems i've actually constructed a stuck chain
625 2012-05-15 14:30:13 <sipa> "blocks" : 178000,
626 2012-05-15 14:30:17 <sipa> "errors" : "WARNING: Displayed transactions may not be correct! You may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade."
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630 2012-05-15 14:34:55 <sipa> ;;bc,tslb
631 2012-05-15 14:34:56 <gribble> Time since last block: 9 minutes and 13 seconds
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635 2012-05-15 14:42:09 <gmaxwell> hm. I tried manually rejecting a block then redownloaded and it didn't stick for me.
636 2012-05-15 14:43:40 danbri has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
637 2012-05-15 14:46:01 <sipa> gmaxwell: see my "forkmode" branch
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643 2012-05-15 14:50:33 <sipa> let's see if it sticks when a new block is found
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646 2012-05-15 14:54:14 <jgarzik> sipa: is there any problem with using boost::mutex directly in bitcoin code? there is a case where we might need it but CRITICAL_SECTION isn't yet up, it sounds like (#917)
647 2012-05-15 14:55:01 <sipa> jgarzik: why isn't it up yet?
648 2012-05-15 14:55:25 <sipa> hmm, i thought util.h included sync.h
649 2012-05-15 14:57:22 <sipa> ;;bc,tblb 20m
650 2012-05-15 14:57:23 <gribble> 1 hour, 10 minutes, and 21 seconds
651 2012-05-15 14:58:42 <sipa> jgarzik: using boost::mutex shouldn't be a problem, in particular when you know for sure it will not cause deadlocks
652 2012-05-15 14:58:48 <gavinandresen> I just sent alerts on the dos issue and updated https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Alerts
653 2012-05-15 14:58:55 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: thanks!
654 2012-05-15 14:59:03 <sipa> ah, great
655 2012-05-15 14:59:12 <sipa> c'mon you block
656 2012-05-15 14:59:43 <gavinandresen> (actually the 0.6.0 alert will go out in about three minutes....)
657 2012-05-15 15:03:25 <luke-jr> hmm, gavinandresen's alert is falsely bothering me
658 2012-05-15 15:03:36 <sipa> same
659 2012-05-15 15:03:37 <luke-jr> as in, flooding me
660 2012-05-15 15:03:48 <luke-jr> I have 5 alerts popping up
661 2012-05-15 15:03:53 <luke-jr> and they keep coming as fast as they go away
662 2012-05-15 15:03:58 <sipa> 05/15/12 15:00:30 accepted alert 1017, AppliesToMe()=1
663 2012-05-15 15:03:59 <gavinandresen> wha???
664 2012-05-15 15:04:09 <gavinandresen> I'll cancel that one now....
665 2012-05-15 15:04:10 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: better cancel that one
666 2012-05-15 15:04:23 <kinlo> why is the alert actually sent out to 0.6.2?
667 2012-05-15 15:04:36 <luke-jr> also, note 0.6.0.7+ isn't affected
668 2012-05-15 15:05:00 <luke-jr> (myself and a few other pools are using this)
669 2012-05-15 15:05:08 <luke-jr> s/myself/Eligius
670 2012-05-15 15:05:15 <gavinandresen> yeah, I'm not going to write special code to deal with 0.6.0.7
671 2012-05-15 15:05:40 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1314 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1314>
672 2012-05-15 15:05:59 <kinlo> any reason why you still use 0.6.0?
673 2012-05-15 15:05:59 <luke-jr> as long as it doesn't trigger safemode or crap, I don't care
674 2012-05-15 15:06:11 <luke-jr> kinlo: because I haven't taken the time to rebase Eligius's codebase on 0.6.2
675 2012-05-15 15:06:16 <kinlo> ic
676 2012-05-15 15:06:18 <luke-jr> easier to just pull 0.6.0.x fixes
677 2012-05-15 15:06:34 <sipa> ;;bc,tblb 40m
678 2012-05-15 15:06:35 <gribble> 7 hours, 50 minutes, and 13 seconds
679 2012-05-15 15:06:37 <luke-jr> plus, 0.6.2 just came out. I'd rather wait until it's confirmed working sanely elsewhere :p
680 2012-05-15 15:07:17 <kinlo> I've deliberately chosen not to make too many patches so I could upgrade easily
681 2012-05-15 15:07:41 <luke-jr> kinlo: well, I'm instead working hard to get my patches suitable for mainline
682 2012-05-15 15:07:54 <luke-jr> maybe 0.7 will actually be usable OOTB :p
683 2012-05-15 15:08:05 <sipa> out of the blue?
684 2012-05-15 15:08:09 <luke-jr> out of the bxo
685 2012-05-15 15:08:10 <luke-jr> box*
686 2012-05-15 15:08:11 <kinlo> out of the box :p
687 2012-05-15 15:08:11 <sipa> ah
688 2012-05-15 15:08:31 <luke-jr> (ok, not likely since I still need to patch in fee policies etc, but still can make my changes minimal)
689 2012-05-15 15:08:48 <kinlo> wasn't there a possibility to send the alerts to specific versions?
690 2012-05-15 15:09:08 <sipa> kinlo: yes, and i'm sure gavin used that
691 2012-05-15 15:09:10 <luke-jr> yes, gavin just doesn't want to do it for 0.6.0.7 it seems
692 2012-05-15 15:09:20 <gavinandresen> yes, but separating the PROTOCOL_VERSION from the CLIENT_VERSION seems to have broken something
693 2012-05-15 15:09:20 <kinlo> sipa: I'm getting the alert on my 0.6.2
694 2012-05-15 15:09:24 <luke-jr> (and why it's hitting 0.6.2 is unknown)
695 2012-05-15 15:09:57 <kinlo> in any case, I can override my code to ignore the message, no big deal
696 2012-05-15 15:10:00 <sipa> i get it on git master
697 2012-05-15 15:10:07 <sipa> kinlo: -nosafemode
698 2012-05-15 15:10:08 TD has joined
699 2012-05-15 15:10:28 <kinlo> is safe mode enforced?
700 2012-05-15 15:10:53 <sipa> actually, not sure
701 2012-05-15 15:11:10 <kinlo> safe mode only disables wallet features, right?
702 2012-05-15 15:11:18 <sipa> yes
703 2012-05-15 15:11:26 <kinlo> as long as submitblock (getmemorypool with data) keeps working, I think I'm safe
704 2012-05-15 15:11:29 <kinlo> lemme check in code
705 2012-05-15 15:13:37 <drizztbsd> 0.6.2 too
706 2012-05-15 15:14:02 setkeh is now known as SETKEHS-CAT
707 2012-05-15 15:14:03 <drizztbsd> can you remove that alert? or should I start bitcoin-qt with -nosafemode?
708 2012-05-15 15:14:17 <gavinandresen> I'm working on it....
709 2012-05-15 15:14:42 localhost has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
710 2012-05-15 15:15:27 gjs278 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
711 2012-05-15 15:15:29 <Joric> look
712 2012-05-15 15:15:31 gjs278 has joined
713 2012-05-15 15:15:38 <Joric> the url
714 2012-05-15 15:15:38 <Joric> http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/424589/hackers_break_into_bitcoin_exchange_site_bitcoinica_steal_90_000_bitcoins/
715 2012-05-15 15:15:45 <drizztbsd> so?
716 2012-05-15 15:15:46 <Joric> steal 90000 bitcoins
717 2012-05-15 15:16:06 <jeremias> wrong number
718 2012-05-15 15:16:09 <Joric> "It's more serious than we thought," said Bitcoinica founder Zhou Tong
719 2012-05-15 15:16:11 <jeremias> over 9000
720 2012-05-15 15:16:19 <Joric> sure it is )
721 2012-05-15 15:16:19 <drizztbsd> do you trust pcworld :P
722 2012-05-15 15:16:37 <jeremias> "It's more serious than we thought", said 17-year-old Bitcoin CEO Zhou Tong
723 2012-05-15 15:16:38 etotheipi_ has joined
724 2012-05-15 15:16:48 <jeremias> "And now we are closing all bitcoin operations worldwide"
725 2012-05-15 15:17:06 <drizztbsd> 17 yo?
726 2012-05-15 15:17:07 <drizztbsd> :P
727 2012-05-15 15:17:19 <jeremias> well, now he is probably 19
728 2012-05-15 15:17:29 <jeremias> he was 17 year old when he started bitcoinica
729 2012-05-15 15:17:33 <drizztbsd> cool
730 2012-05-15 15:18:01 <Joric> "Bitcoin CEO (Zhou Tong Jr) to cease all bitcoin operations from this day to forever"
731 2012-05-15 15:18:14 <drizztbsd> LOL bitcoin ceo
732 2012-05-15 15:18:24 <Joric> the company just wasn't profitable, he said
733 2012-05-15 15:18:33 <jeremias> it would be cool to get that kind of news article to pcworld
734 2012-05-15 15:18:34 <sipa> gavinandresen: you'd need nVersion=60001 and setSubVer={"/Satoshi:0.6.0/", ... }
735 2012-05-15 15:18:40 <jeremias> maybe the onion?
736 2012-05-15 15:19:05 <luke-jr> getting alerts again
737 2012-05-15 15:19:08 <luke-jr> just 1 this time it looks like
738 2012-05-15 15:19:17 <gavinandresen> thanks sipa
739 2012-05-15 15:19:29 <luke-jr> ironically, it was from my git master client, NOT my 0.6.0.7 client
740 2012-05-15 15:19:35 <sipa> gavinandresen: or look at http://bitcoin.sipa.be/seeds.txt
741 2012-05-15 15:20:37 <gavinandresen> sipa: I was trying to figure out how to cancel a subset...
742 2012-05-15 15:20:56 <sipa> you can only cancel up to a previus alert number, no?
743 2012-05-15 15:21:16 xorgate has joined
744 2012-05-15 15:21:26 <gavinandresen> there's a setCancel
745 2012-05-15 15:21:48 <sipa> ha, nice
746 2012-05-15 15:23:06 ddarios has joined
747 2012-05-15 15:23:15 t7 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
748 2012-05-15 15:23:16 cypherdoc has joined
749 2012-05-15 15:23:49 t7 has joined
750 2012-05-15 15:25:32 <Joric> bitcoinica's written entirely on ruby, right? could anyone tell is it an appropriate language for such things? i barely know what's ruby
751 2012-05-15 15:25:34 danbri has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
752 2012-05-15 15:25:57 <luke-jr> Joric: I hate Ruby.
753 2012-05-15 15:26:14 <luke-jr> bitcoin.org is also Ruby.
754 2012-05-15 15:26:14 danbri has joined
755 2012-05-15 15:26:37 <sipa> i thought it was html ;(
756 2012-05-15 15:26:49 danbri has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
757 2012-05-15 15:26:55 danbri has joined
758 2012-05-15 15:26:57 <Joric> yeah it's static maybe preprocessed a bit
759 2012-05-15 15:27:05 <sipa> Joric: yes, i know :)
760 2012-05-15 15:28:47 <sipa> ;;bc,tblb 1h2m
761 2012-05-15 15:28:48 <gribble> Error: '1h2m' is not a valid argument.
762 2012-05-15 15:28:50 <sipa> ;;bc,tblb 1h 2m
763 2012-05-15 15:28:52 <gribble> 2 days, 15 hours, 19 minutes, and 41 seconds
764 2012-05-15 15:28:54 <Joric> ruby looks like python but without forced indentation it may be autoformatted and shit
765 2012-05-15 15:29:27 cypherdoc_ has joined
766 2012-05-15 15:29:36 * drizztbsd loves ruby
767 2012-05-15 15:30:18 <drizztbsd> https://gist.github.com/2702648 less lines to do anything
768 2012-05-15 15:31:26 b4epoche has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
769 2012-05-15 15:31:36 cypherdoc has quit (Quit: Page closed)
770 2012-05-15 15:33:24 <gavinandresen> 0.6.2 shouldn't be showing the alert any more, but I think I accidentally cancelled the alerts for older versions, too...
771 2012-05-15 15:33:39 <sipa> gmaxwell: my chain is definitely stuck
772 2012-05-15 15:33:51 * sipa tries latest unstuck patch
773 2012-05-15 15:34:09 <gavinandresen> sipa: where is that patch? I've got a stuck chain, too (one I didn't try to make stuck)
774 2012-05-15 15:34:29 <sipa> gavinandresen: it's called "unstuck"
775 2012-05-15 15:34:55 b4epoche has joined
776 2012-05-15 15:35:18 <sipa> https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/commit/c31b6427a67b20b1a52e0c998a3578e94e535370
777 2012-05-15 15:37:54 <luke-jr> confirmed no alerts visible here
778 2012-05-15 15:37:55 <sipa> seems to work!
779 2012-05-15 15:39:17 TuxBlackEdo has quit (Disconnected by services)
780 2012-05-15 15:43:51 TheSeven has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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785 2012-05-15 15:43:54 sankar has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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792 2012-05-15 15:44:42 <etotheipi_> I assume it's been mentioned, but just in case: I see "Bitcoin version vCLIENT_VERSION_MAJOR.CLIENT_VERSION_MINOR.CL"
793 2012-05-15 15:44:50 <sipa> etotheipi_: fixed already
794 2012-05-15 15:44:58 danbri has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
795 2012-05-15 15:45:03 danbri has joined
796 2012-05-15 15:46:45 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: sipa opened pull request 1315 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1315>
797 2012-05-15 15:48:32 datagutt has joined
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802 2012-05-15 15:52:04 guruvan has joined
803 2012-05-15 15:55:04 <gmaxwell> sipa: whats with leaving in this commented out code? +// pfrom->PushGetBlocks(pindexBest, uint256(0));
804 2012-05-15 15:55:15 <sipa> uh
805 2012-05-15 15:55:53 <sipa> right, that was for testing
806 2012-05-15 15:56:14 <gmaxwell> ... yea. :)
807 2012-05-15 15:58:22 guruvan has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
808 2012-05-15 16:00:55 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: I'm curious about your thoughts on DeathAndTaxes' analysis in the zero confirmation thread you started. Are those figures vaguely accurate?
809 2012-05-15 16:01:34 <jgarzik> sipa: the comment message is a bit vague... that one-line summary will be much less meaningful in 3-6 months
810 2012-05-15 16:01:48 <sipa> ok i'll try to elaborate
811 2012-05-15 16:03:18 tucenaber has quit (Quit: GeekBouncer - http://geekbouncer.co.uk)
812 2012-05-15 16:04:33 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: his analysis was exactly what I was thinking, but the actual invalidation risk is a little harder to figure out just because propagation isn't instant.
813 2012-05-15 16:04:55 guruvan has joined
814 2012-05-15 16:05:29 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: And of course, because we don't currently propagate double spends, or even notify the user if we happen to hear about them, that kind of delay doesn't help you against non-finney attacks.
815 2012-05-15 16:10:25 wumpus has quit (No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
816 2012-05-15 16:10:38 wumpus has joined
817 2012-05-15 16:10:48 <gmaxwell> But there is a difference between thinking its secure against reversal and knowing that the loss is bounded and you can easily eat it. :)
818 2012-05-15 16:10:50 <luke-jr> jgarzik: that's a genious idea btw
819 2012-05-15 16:11:00 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: true ;-)
820 2012-05-15 16:11:35 <gmaxwell> The finny attack actually becomes more expensie the more people are doing it: drives up the market price for on demand hashing power. There are only so many such attacks that can go on network wide.
821 2012-05-15 16:11:45 <gmaxwell> (every block could be a finny attack, thats the maximum)
822 2012-05-15 16:11:49 <jgarzik> Also a great point in the thread, that I had not thought of: sites without instant delivery can accept 0-conf initially, and then check confirmation count > X at a later time (e.g. before shipping the product)
823 2012-05-15 16:12:05 <jgarzik> obvious to some, perhaps, but I hadn't thought of it
824 2012-05-15 16:12:23 <gmaxwell> Yea, I'e long pointed that out to people. ... and here I though I was just stating the obvious!
825 2012-05-15 16:12:29 <jgarzik> ;)
826 2012-05-15 16:13:03 <forrestv> gmaxwell, unless finny-pools arise that let multiple people make attacks in the same block..
827 2012-05-15 16:13:14 <gmaxwell> forrestv: oh, good point.
828 2012-05-15 16:13:39 [Tycho] has joined
829 2012-05-15 16:14:33 <gmaxwell> forrestv: speaking of thatâ have you given any consideration to an idea like "p2pool shares disclose the identity of w/ fee transactions they contain, and subsiquent shares are required to contain those transactions to be considered valid (until the next bitcoin block)"? Would require a lot more bitcoin integration.
830 2012-05-15 16:14:37 <luke-jr> forrestv: which is automatic when fees can be customizedâ¦
831 2012-05-15 16:14:48 <gmaxwell> forrestv: but it would give you committments to include transactions very fast.
832 2012-05-15 16:15:25 16WAAK3EZ has joined
833 2012-05-15 16:15:25 UukGoblin has joined
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837 2012-05-15 16:15:29 <forrestv> mm.. it would also restrict the freedom of choosing whichever txns you want to mine
838 2012-05-15 16:15:37 torsthaldo_ has quit (Excess Flood)
839 2012-05-15 16:15:43 <gmaxwell> forrestv: thats also why I limited it to "with fee" in that statement.
840 2012-05-15 16:15:57 UukGoblin has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
841 2012-05-15 16:15:59 <forrestv> it's still a restriction :p
842 2012-05-15 16:16:00 <gmaxwell> It could even be "with a sufficiently high fee as determined by a vote of the users"
843 2012-05-15 16:16:01 16WAAK3EZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
844 2012-05-15 16:16:05 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: so more-centralized fee rules?
845 2012-05-15 16:16:07 UukGoblin has joined
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848 2012-05-15 16:18:09 <gmaxwell> forrestv: basically it would encourage people to include fees in order to get the 10-second µconfirmations.. not really valuable with only a few hundred GH/s on p2pool, but it would be if some p2pool like system were a hashpower majority.
849 2012-05-15 16:18:59 * luke-jr would see that as a 51% attack
850 2012-05-15 16:19:32 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: You'd be alone.
851 2012-05-15 16:19:37 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I don't think so.
852 2012-05-15 16:20:47 <luke-jr> if Deepbit started using its hashpower to enable double spends, everyone would see it that way
853 2012-05-15 16:20:51 <luke-jr> why is p2pool any differnet?
854 2012-05-15 16:21:13 <sipa> because the transactions are decided by the individual miners
855 2012-05-15 16:21:20 n0n00dz4u has joined
856 2012-05-15 16:21:23 <luke-jr> sipa: not in the case gmaxwell is suggesting
857 2012-05-15 16:21:26 <gmaxwell> enable double spends?!@#!
858 2012-05-15 16:21:27 <gmaxwell> huh?
859 2012-05-15 16:21:38 <gmaxwell> I think you misunderstood me.
860 2012-05-15 16:21:40 <n0n00dz4u> wow you guys keep booting me
861 2012-05-15 16:21:46 <n0n00dz4u> I didn't even say anything
862 2012-05-15 16:21:47 <n0n00dz4u> wrong
863 2012-05-15 16:21:50 <n0n00dz4u> but okay
864 2012-05-15 16:21:51 SphericalCow has joined
865 2012-05-15 16:21:52 <n0n00dz4u> whatever
866 2012-05-15 16:22:01 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I'm a p2pool miner. I send a 0-fee transaction to someone. Then I use p2pool to finney attack him with a dobule spend with fee.
867 2012-05-15 16:22:30 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: you can use use btc+deepbit for that already.
868 2012-05-15 16:22:39 <gmaxwell> just send your finny txn to both ... tada!
869 2012-05-15 16:22:53 * gmaxwell lunch &
870 2012-05-15 16:22:57 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: Deepbit replaces transactions with ones with higher fees?
871 2012-05-15 16:23:15 <kinlo> what's a finney attack?
872 2012-05-15 16:23:18 <luke-jr> ooh good, I think I just confirmed my code changes are safe
873 2012-05-15 16:23:28 <luke-jr> kinlo: double-spend at 0 confirmations by finding a block
874 2012-05-15 16:23:35 <luke-jr> kinlo: ie, so the double spend is never seen before the block
875 2012-05-15 16:23:46 <sipa> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses#The_.22Finney.22_attack
876 2012-05-15 16:25:03 cypherdoc has joined
877 2012-05-15 16:25:08 <sipa> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3441.msg48384#msg48384
878 2012-05-15 16:25:15 <kinlo> luke-jr: as a p2pool miner you can't influence the transactions being mined by p2pool, now can you
879 2012-05-15 16:25:55 <kinlo> perhaps you can modify the transactions you mine yourself, but that means you only have your own hashing power, so that equals to solo mining
880 2012-05-15 16:26:14 <luke-jr> kinlo: gmaxwell was suggesting that forrestv make it so you can
881 2012-05-15 16:26:24 <kinlo> luke-jr: your own
882 2012-05-15 16:26:40 <luke-jr> kinlo: no, he wants everyone else ot be forced to include txns with some fee
883 2012-05-15 16:27:13 <luke-jr> [16:12:02] <gmaxwell> forrestv: speaking of thatâ have you given any consideration to an idea like "p2pool shares disclose the identity of w/ fee transactions they contain, and subsiquent shares are required to contain those transactions to be considered valid (until the next bitcoin block)"? Would require a lot more bitcoin integration.
884 2012-05-15 16:27:49 <kinlo> mmmz
885 2012-05-15 16:27:52 <jgarzik> does anybody have a pre-generated block chain dataset, that permits one to test Reorganize() ?
886 2012-05-15 16:28:19 <jgarzik> ideally there's block chain A, and then a longer branch that may be injected, causing a multi-block switch
887 2012-05-15 16:28:33 <luke-jr> jgarzik: I think someone (maybe Gavin or sipa?) was working on something like that
888 2012-05-15 16:30:31 <jgarzik> makes me want to write BitcoinTestScript language or macros, that could express this test case, and then generate it at low difficulty
889 2012-05-15 16:31:02 Iuyt has joined
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891 2012-05-15 16:32:32 t7 has joined
892 2012-05-15 16:35:32 <sipa> jgarzik: i have a forkmode branch, which allows you to create a split chain
893 2012-05-15 16:35:46 <sipa> if you do it on testnet, and mine a bit yourself, you can get a side branch
894 2012-05-15 16:37:59 ThomasV has joined
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897 2012-05-15 16:55:04 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: BitcoinTestScript is a good idea, the ParseScript() code I wrote for the test/script_tests.cpp unit tests might be a good start
898 2012-05-15 16:56:33 <luke-jr> 5% secure against CVE-2012-2459
899 2012-05-15 16:57:46 <luke-jr> (4% of which is 0.6.2)
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907 2012-05-15 17:16:15 <helo> ouch
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920 2012-05-15 17:35:53 <osmosis> anyone have any munin graph plugins to monitor bitcoind?
921 2012-05-15 17:36:14 Snapman is now known as Snapman[afkers]
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926 2012-05-15 17:44:21 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: jgarzik opened pull request 1316 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1316>
927 2012-05-15 17:46:34 <phantomcircuit> osmosis, "it's broken"
928 2012-05-15 17:48:33 <osmosis> phantomcircuit, there are munin plugins for bitcoind but they are broken?
929 2012-05-15 17:48:43 <phantomcircuit> was a joke about that state of bitcoind
930 2012-05-15 17:48:58 <osmosis> hm
931 2012-05-15 17:49:08 mmoya_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
932 2012-05-15 17:49:10 <osmosis> well, i could probably put together my own pretty easily
933 2012-05-15 17:49:14 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: I can't seem to find any open issues by you in the system, am I looking under the wrong name?
934 2012-05-15 17:49:22 <osmosis> the bitcoind stats cmd doesnt really give that much info to graph though
935 2012-05-15 17:49:27 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
936 2012-05-15 17:49:46 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i can never figure out exactly what's going on
937 2012-05-15 17:49:58 <phantomcircuit> but for example rpc will stall when trying to pull 10k transactions
938 2012-05-15 17:50:10 <phantomcircuit> which is reasonable :)
939 2012-05-15 17:50:15 <gmaxwell> I was going to sayâ
940 2012-05-15 17:50:38 <gmaxwell> also, that sounds like an area that would be easy to improve.
941 2012-05-15 17:50:49 <osmosis> blocks, connections, difficulty are about all could graph. Not a lot of useful network information.
942 2012-05-15 17:51:00 <osmosis> via ./bitcoind getinfo
943 2012-05-15 17:51:22 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, basically the issue is
944 2012-05-15 17:51:27 <phantomcircuit> a single rpc call will block
945 2012-05-15 17:51:37 <sipa> wallet rpc's shouldn't lock cs_main, and the other way around
946 2012-05-15 17:51:42 <phantomcircuit> but there isn't a sane queueing mechanism
947 2012-05-15 17:52:02 <phantomcircuit> i understand it's supposed to use the socket queue as an rpc queue
948 2012-05-15 17:52:09 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: latest upstream changed all that
949 2012-05-15 17:52:23 <sipa> i hope that blockstore can be merged soon, so we can limit the use of cs_main further
950 2012-05-15 17:52:28 <phantomcircuit> but that means if something takes longer than the timeout for socket queue i get exceptions i have to catch :)
951 2012-05-15 17:52:44 <osmosis> gtk-gnutella has some amazing network packet analysis, displayed in the gui even. Id like to have stats like that available from bitcoind getinfo
952 2012-05-15 17:52:55 <gmaxwell> Well multithreaded rpc would help that too, even without all the locking changes.
953 2012-05-15 17:53:13 <gmaxwell> osmosis: start coding!
954 2012-05-15 17:53:41 <phantomcircuit> osmosis, i can pretty much guarantee you're not using a lot of bandwidth
955 2012-05-15 17:54:16 <sipa> unless you're downloading or distributing the blockchain
956 2012-05-15 17:54:32 <sipa> gmaxwell: anyway, if you're interested, i have a backup of my stuck chain
957 2012-05-15 17:54:38 <gmaxwell> sipa: weird timing.
958 2012-05-15 17:54:43 <gmaxwell> I was just about to ask.
959 2012-05-15 17:54:55 mmoya_ has joined
960 2012-05-15 17:54:59 * jgarzik can think of several network-related RPCs he'd like to see: peeraddrs (get random selection of peer addresses), addrdump (dump addrman), netstats (display per-command stats), peers (list current peers)
961 2012-05-15 17:55:12 <gmaxwell> I'm testing your stuck fix some as we speak.. but just basic sanity testing.. syncing a new node with it, etc.
962 2012-05-15 17:55:42 <gmaxwell> commands to add and kill peers, and manipulate the blacklist would be good too.
963 2012-05-15 17:55:55 <osmosis> phantomcircuit, at 172 connections averaging about 151 Kb out
964 2012-05-15 17:56:12 <sipa> gmaxwell: i used -forkmode=1M3nGRvJHELWqt8iJXZbeBBTbTWCAebDCJ to create my chain (which is first used in block 178001)
965 2012-05-15 17:56:15 <gmaxwell> But yea, with ipv6 and the onion support peer management rpcs are more important than they used to be.
966 2012-05-15 17:56:16 <phantomcircuit> osmosis, impressive
967 2012-05-15 17:56:20 <phantomcircuit> i see like
968 2012-05-15 17:56:29 <phantomcircuit> maybe 1 KB/s
969 2012-05-15 17:56:43 <sipa> osmosis: probably one is downloading the chain
970 2012-05-15 17:56:46 <sipa> or more than one
971 2012-05-15 17:56:49 <gmaxwell> Also, wumpus console patch increased the audience for RPC commands considerably, â more value in new rpc commands now.
972 2012-05-15 17:57:01 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: yes, that was nice to see
973 2012-05-15 17:57:33 <sipa> gavinandresen: by the way, had time to test threadsync?
974 2012-05-15 17:57:43 <gavinandresen> sipa: nope
975 2012-05-15 17:58:15 <jgarzik> CBlockStore seems nice but... ambitious and freakin' huge :)
976 2012-05-15 17:58:32 <jgarzik> I would rather simplify CTransaction and CBlock first -- remove the file I/O stuff from those classes
977 2012-05-15 17:58:57 <sipa> jgarzik: i think matt rebased it more than enough by now
978 2012-05-15 17:59:01 diki has joined
979 2012-05-15 17:59:01 <jgarzik> having an object open a database and read itself is... inside out IMO
980 2012-05-15 17:59:11 <diki> I see you guys took my suggestion and implemented it :)
981 2012-05-15 17:59:28 <diki> Where number of blocks left are displayed in the progress bar
982 2012-05-15 17:59:39 <sipa> agree on that, but blockstore brings real improvement, like parallel block chain checking
983 2012-05-15 17:59:42 <diki> though mine was num blocks dled/total left
984 2012-05-15 17:59:47 <diki> but still, an improvement
985 2012-05-15 18:00:00 <jgarzik> sipa: I think it still has design issues... it's huge and may not best choice for the future. tries to do too much
986 2012-05-15 18:00:12 <sipa> huge?
987 2012-05-15 18:00:27 <sipa> the only large change is movement of some code from main to protocol
988 2012-05-15 18:00:36 <sipa> large in terms of lines changed
989 2012-05-15 18:00:38 <gmaxwell> I'd prever we avoid pulling both block database changes and the chain pull fix without at least a few days gap.
990 2012-05-15 18:01:10 <diki> love the changes
991 2012-05-15 18:01:19 <diki> bitcoin-qt > bitcoin 3
992 2012-05-15 18:01:31 <jgarzik> sipa: the class interface
993 2012-05-15 18:02:11 <sipa> hmm maybe, but the block chain management is a beast
994 2012-05-15 18:02:17 <jgarzik> sipa: RegisterFoo, RegisterBar, ... an ugly hardcoded interface that would be better served with signal classes or something more modular
995 2012-05-15 18:02:38 <jgarzik> sipa: the class interface is just a long, unorganized, all-other-the-place laundry list
996 2012-05-15 18:03:02 <jgarzik> transactions, blocks, commit alerts, it's got it all in one class
997 2012-05-15 18:03:15 <sipa> well, currently it's all not in any class at all
998 2012-05-15 18:03:34 <jgarzik> sipa: true -- but that does not justify CKitchenSink :)
999 2012-05-15 18:04:49 <sipa> jgarzik: blockstore currently is two things: a message dispatcher and block chain management
1000 2012-05-15 18:05:22 <sipa> the idea was to first split these from rpc/net/ui, and in a second step split block chain management from the message dispatcher too
1001 2012-05-15 18:05:46 <sipa> so it becomes a regular signal handler like the wallet
1002 2012-05-15 18:06:39 <jgarzik> sipa: it does: event dispatching, event _handling_, network alert relaying, block index services, ... it is a kitchen sink
1003 2012-05-15 18:06:54 <jgarzik> it is so large, comments divide up the class into sections: https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/blob/6bb36f2343ef5c00666520d3ae84eabf0204f28b/src/blockstore.h
1004 2012-05-15 18:07:18 <jgarzik> what does "RelayAlerts" have to do with a "blockstore"?
1005 2012-05-15 18:07:45 <sipa> well, maybe the name isn't well chosen, but as i said, it's a message dispatcher
1006 2012-05-15 18:08:20 <jgarzik> and handler. the mail carrier _and_ the mail. plus random shite, because it wasn't already in a class. :)
1007 2012-05-15 18:08:34 <jgarzik> random bits of state like IsInitialBlockDownload
1008 2012-05-15 18:08:59 <sipa> as the idea is that all network inputs passes the dispatcher to be processed in the right place, transactions, blocks, alerts, ... need their place in it
1009 2012-05-15 18:09:22 <jgarzik> fixing the flow is a good thing. mixing dispatcher and dispatched is not.
1010 2012-05-15 18:09:47 <jgarzik> anybody, babysitting time
1011 2012-05-15 18:09:55 <sipa> i'm sure you would have complained the code change was too large to do in one step then
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1013 2012-05-15 18:11:59 <jgarzik> no, it's a design issue as described, mixing multiple idioms
1014 2012-05-15 18:13:24 <sipa> blockstore becomes the central communication between a) network b) blockchain c) wallets
1015 2012-05-15 18:13:39 <sipa> for now, the blockchain handling is part of it, rather than be a separate part
1016 2012-05-15 18:13:55 <sipa> so yes, it's a mix of a message handler and doing some of the handling
1017 2012-05-15 18:14:43 <sipa> but it's an improvement towards a better design; right now those three are arbitrarily-linked together in a very strange net
1018 2012-05-15 18:14:50 <jgarzik> a boost-ish solution would be a generic message dispatcher, plus some auto-registering event handlers that do the real work
1019 2012-05-15 18:15:23 <sipa> it uses boost signals; not sure what more you want?
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1023 2012-05-15 18:19:31 * luke-jr notes Satoshi had started on a C++ API back some years ago, but we pulled it outâ¦
1024 2012-05-15 18:20:20 <sipa> ?
1025 2012-05-15 18:20:36 <gmaxwell> I'd think the goal of cleaner interfaces wouldn't be a C++ api as much as bit of C++ glue to hook up a socket api and move the wallet and gui into anothe rprocess.
1026 2012-05-15 18:20:55 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: yes, that's pretty ideal
1027 2012-05-15 18:21:41 <sipa> as soon as the interface between blockchain, wallets, ui and network happens through a message dispatcher, it's pretty easy to make the message dispatcher work via network
1028 2012-05-15 18:21:58 <gmaxwell> (pretty crazy that we handle long term private keys worth potentially tens of thousands of dollars in a process directly exposed to the public internet, even though the code base has done well against classical exploitation)
1029 2012-05-15 18:24:23 <sipa> luke-jr: which C++ api do you speak of, by the way?
1030 2012-05-15 18:24:41 <luke-jr> sipa: there were some hooks for callbacks that got removed during the 0.5 or 0.6 window IIRC
1031 2012-05-15 18:24:50 <luke-jr> and some more that was removed during 0.3
1032 2012-05-15 18:24:58 <sipa> you mean the pubsub system?
1033 2012-05-15 18:25:00 <luke-jr> yeah
1034 2012-05-15 18:25:07 <sipa> that was for network communication
1035 2012-05-15 18:25:11 <luke-jr> O.o
1036 2012-05-15 18:25:33 <sipa> so merchants could publish what they were selling and stuff
1037 2012-05-15 18:31:55 m00p has joined
1038 2012-05-15 18:34:03 <neofutur> ;;title https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=71542
1039 2012-05-15 18:34:04 <gribble> [BOUNTY - 25 BTC] : read only blockchain patch for bitcoind
1040 2012-05-15 18:34:49 Lyspooner has joined
1041 2012-05-15 18:35:31 <gmaxwell> neofutur: What you're suggesting is the wrong way to accomplish what you want. You've been told this before.
1042 2012-05-15 18:38:27 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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1046 2012-05-15 18:40:18 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: rebroad opened issue 1317 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1317>
1047 2012-05-15 18:41:17 <weex> gmaxwell: i would also like to see this feature...is a bounty a decent way to go about it?
1048 2012-05-15 18:41:49 <sipa> what we need is a nice split between blockchain+net and wallet+ui
1049 2012-05-15 18:43:00 <weex> does that cut much bone to use a medical metaphor?
1050 2012-05-15 18:43:27 barmstrong has joined
1051 2012-05-15 18:43:32 vigilyn has joined
1052 2012-05-15 18:43:37 <luke-jr> a bad metaphor; what do you mean? XD
1053 2012-05-15 18:46:35 <weex> youre right, i can't go anywhere with that
1054 2012-05-15 18:48:21 <weex> primarily what i would like is to be able to have multiple bitcoinds running that i can query to see if they've seen transactions for a set of addresses
1055 2012-05-15 18:50:06 <weex> unconfirmed txns mainly but also to support thin clients who just have a few private keys
1056 2012-05-15 18:50:24 <weex> they want to check their balance and broadcast txns
1057 2012-05-15 18:51:50 <weex> i guess that is accomplished by sipa's split but i don't require the bitcoinds i'm querying not to have their own wallets/ui
1058 2012-05-15 18:52:54 <weex> mike hearn on somethign close to the subject: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=57435.msg892884#msg892884
1059 2012-05-15 18:53:45 theorb has joined
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1062 2012-05-15 18:54:09 <luke-jr> weex: you're describing what sipa said :p
1063 2012-05-15 18:54:24 <luke-jr> weex: at least as I envision it
1064 2012-05-15 18:54:28 toffoo has joined
1065 2012-05-15 18:55:05 <luke-jr> while Bitcoin-Qt would probably spawn bitcoind itself on a local socket (stdio?), you could just run bitcoind as a TCP server still
1066 2012-05-15 18:55:46 <weex> so it's easy! :D
1067 2012-05-15 18:57:21 <weex> lol....i'm well aware that it's not and that i'll not be the one to do it so the best i can do is provide my perspective
1068 2012-05-15 18:57:45 <jine> ;;sell 1 Domain at 1000 BTC Bitcoins.LC - send bids to domains@jine.se
1069 2012-05-15 18:57:45 <gribble> Order id 8063 created.
1070 2012-05-15 18:57:51 <jine> Oh, crap.. wrong channgel :)
1071 2012-05-15 18:59:16 <weex> with this kind of feature, it becomes quite easy to accept fast payments as you just query 10 bitcoinds
1072 2012-05-15 19:00:09 <weex> until 80% accept a txn for you
1073 2012-05-15 19:00:57 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1075 2012-05-15 19:01:21 <graingert> weex: there is a site that does this
1076 2012-05-15 19:01:44 <graingert> weex: http://transactionradar.com/
1077 2012-05-15 19:02:04 <weex> hey graingert , how's it going?
1078 2012-05-15 19:02:08 <graingert> weex: heya
1079 2012-05-15 19:02:10 <weex> i'm aware of that but it's not fast
1080 2012-05-15 19:02:28 <weex> 0-conf fast i mean
1081 2012-05-15 19:03:21 <weex> plus i want not 1 server but tens to thousands
1082 2012-05-15 19:03:39 archevety has joined
1083 2012-05-15 19:04:57 barmstrong has joined
1084 2012-05-15 19:05:10 <weex> instead of a transaction, i'd love to see it accept an address or list of addresses
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1089 2012-05-15 19:15:06 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, around?
1090 2012-05-15 19:15:30 <phantomcircuit> is there someone here who can whitelist a forum account?
1091 2012-05-15 19:15:53 <graingert> weex: what do you want to do?
1092 2012-05-15 19:16:04 <graingert> what do you want to sell at 0 conf?
1093 2012-05-15 19:17:00 <graingert> because if you want to sell a subscription then 0 conf is fine
1094 2012-05-15 19:17:03 <graingert> you just cut them off
1095 2012-05-15 19:17:04 <graingert> and sue
1096 2012-05-15 19:17:29 jg_mobi has joined
1097 2012-05-15 19:18:20 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: I can try
1098 2012-05-15 19:18:29 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: I have mod on -a- board, so maybe it will work
1099 2012-05-15 19:20:45 <weex> graingert: i'm selling downloads at coindl
1100 2012-05-15 19:22:00 <weex> sue for a subscription lol...bbl
1101 2012-05-15 19:24:26 RazielZ has joined
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1103 2012-05-15 19:25:28 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: I'm back
1104 2012-05-15 19:25:35 danbri has joined
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1107 2012-05-15 19:29:15 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, can you whitelist someone on the forum?
1108 2012-05-15 19:29:29 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
1109 2012-05-15 19:29:48 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: yes
1110 2012-05-15 19:30:05 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1111 2012-05-15 19:30:16 <phantomcircuit> please whitelist Bitcoinica Consultancy
1112 2012-05-15 19:31:20 <gavinandresen> ok... (looking for the whitelist button, always have a hard time finding it....)
1113 2012-05-15 19:31:35 <gavinandresen> done, I think
1114 2012-05-15 19:32:07 <phantomcircuit> thanks
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1119 2012-05-15 19:36:03 <luke-jr> weex: that check won't beat finney
1120 2012-05-15 19:40:52 <eian> how many simultaneous connections does bitcoind support? Has anyone hit an upper bound?
1121 2012-05-15 19:41:22 <XMPPwocky> eian: it should grow to fill memory
1122 2012-05-15 19:41:45 <XMPPwocky> in theory, you might hit MAX_INT or MAX_SHORt
1123 2012-05-15 19:42:42 <eian> just wondering what type of peering #'s the large exchanges reach with bitcoind
1124 2012-05-15 19:43:32 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1125 2012-05-15 19:44:10 <eian> MAX_INT doesn't seem likely - I don't think a kernel can handle billions of open socket descriptors haha
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1129 2012-05-15 19:45:50 <XMPPwocky> eian: well, I figured in bitcoind
1130 2012-05-15 19:48:17 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1131 2012-05-15 19:48:26 <luke-jr> eian: bitcoind 0.6.2 supports 1 simultaneous (JSON-RPC) connection
1132 2012-05-15 19:48:48 <luke-jr> eian: bitcoind uses select(), so it can never have more than 1024 file descriptors
1133 2012-05-15 19:49:08 <luke-jr> eian: exchanges have no particular need to peer much, but at least MtGox does not use bitcoind
1134 2012-05-15 19:50:18 b4epoche has joined
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1136 2012-05-15 19:50:33 <terry> luke-jr: "PHP can do anything"
1137 2012-05-15 19:50:36 <terry> ?
1138 2012-05-15 19:50:44 <luke-jr> terry: what?
1139 2012-05-15 19:51:01 <terry> MagicalTux's signature used to be: "PHP can do anything"
1140 2012-05-15 19:51:08 <luke-jr> O.o
1141 2012-05-15 19:51:33 <eian> what does MtGox use?
1142 2012-05-15 19:52:11 <luke-jr> eian: presumably QBitcoin Core (which hasn't been released yet)
1143 2012-05-15 19:52:40 <eian> gotcha, thanks
1144 2012-05-15 19:52:57 <luke-jr> MagicalTux might be able to comment further
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1147 2012-05-15 19:59:06 Ragnarok752 is now known as 2!~Ragnarok7@pool-173-70-10-105.nwrknj.east.verizon.net|Ragnarok752
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1150 2012-05-15 19:59:35 <luke-jr> argh
1151 2012-05-15 19:59:53 <luke-jr> just renewed my domains⦠made a brief google for coupon codes, none found
1152 2012-05-15 20:00:08 <sipa> qbitcoin core?
1153 2012-05-15 20:00:27 <luke-jr> later wanted to go back and see what their first attempted upsell was, but it didn't try to upsell again; click the X to close the window, and it offers me 10% off if I don't close it without ordering -.-
1154 2012-05-15 20:00:35 <luke-jr> sipa: yes, MagicalTux's client
1155 2012-05-15 20:00:44 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/QBitcoin
1156 2012-05-15 20:00:52 Tykling has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1157 2012-05-15 20:01:32 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: btw, that page still says 0.1.0 planned for Jan 2011 :P
1158 2012-05-15 20:03:29 Tykling has joined
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1163 2012-05-15 20:13:03 <upb> written in 100% pure PHP
1164 2012-05-15 20:13:21 <luke-jr> Qt
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1171 2012-05-15 20:30:43 <neofutur> gmaxwell: thanks for posting on https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=71542
1172 2012-05-15 20:30:50 <neofutur> i updated the op with your comment
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1175 2012-05-15 20:32:57 <gmaxwell> neofutur: thanks!
1176 2012-05-15 20:34:16 <neofutur> thanks to you ! no doubt you know better than me the best way to address those problems / needs ;)
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1192 2012-05-15 21:02:38 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: luke-jr opened pull request 37 on bitcoin/bitcoin.org <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/pull/37>
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1196 2012-05-15 21:10:26 <TD> hmm
1197 2012-05-15 21:10:29 <TD> sipa: ping
1198 2012-05-15 21:10:42 <TD> or anyone who understands the reorg code :)
1199 2012-05-15 21:11:58 <sipa> yes?
1200 2012-05-15 21:12:47 Matt_von_Mises has joined
1201 2012-05-15 21:13:03 <TD> when a re-org takes place, do transactions that didn't make it into the new branch override transactions that were already in the memory pool when they are resurrected, or is the ordering undefined? my reading of the code is that transactions already in the memory pool take priority
1202 2012-05-15 21:13:40 Zarutian has joined
1203 2012-05-15 21:14:10 <Matt_von_Mises> Here's a question: Why does bitcoin use a double SHA-256 for checksums?
1204 2012-05-15 21:14:15 <luke-jr> TD: a transaction would not have been allowed into the memorypool if it conflicted in the first place
1205 2012-05-15 21:14:26 <sipa> not looking at the code right now, but i'm quite sure transactions already in the pool remain there
1206 2012-05-15 21:14:29 <luke-jr> Matt_von_Mises: random coin flip
1207 2012-05-15 21:14:57 <sipa> Matt_von_Mises: i suppose satoshi thought that was more secure
1208 2012-05-15 21:15:14 <TD> luke-jr: i'm thinking about the double spend case. you have a pending transaction. a re-org causes the pending transaction to become dead, as it's now a double spend
1209 2012-05-15 21:16:01 <TD> if the best chain switches back to the original, then the double spend will be "resurrected" and added to the memory pool, then i think it will be dropped
1210 2012-05-15 21:16:13 <luke-jr> TD: well, of course the one in the *now active* block trumps the memorypool
1211 2012-05-15 21:16:16 <Matt_von_Mises> Random coin flip? And why do checksums need to be secure?
1212 2012-05-15 21:16:56 <sipa> Matt_von_Mises: they are used for pow and for identifying blocks and transactions
1213 2012-05-15 21:16:58 <TD> Matt_von_Mises: protocol checksums are a bad idea. nobody knows why they were added. i suspect at one point satoshi had a memory corruption bug that he had trouble tracking down
1214 2012-05-15 21:17:20 <TD> Matt_von_Mises: the bizarre "seek past garbage" behavior is like that .... i didn't do it originally and one day a node sent garbage between messages
1215 2012-05-15 21:17:23 <luke-jr> TD: I disagree. TCP checksums don't work.
1216 2012-05-15 21:18:10 <TD> luke-jr: the newly active chain doesn't double spend. that's my point. there was a double spend on the other chain, but when the original chain takes over again there are now two transactions that aren't in any best-chain block that spend the same outputs
1217 2012-05-15 21:19:15 <luke-jr> TD: first seen transaction trumps all except block-included transactionsâ¦
1218 2012-05-15 21:20:46 <Matt_von_Mises> sipa: You don't need a double SHA-256 for addresses do you?
1219 2012-05-15 21:20:55 <TD> yeah, right. that's what i was thinking. there's no code that detects a pending transaction has been double-spent into invalidity and removes them
1220 2012-05-15 21:21:01 <TD> i think it's this line
1221 2012-05-15 21:21:15 <TD> main.cpp:3218 if (!tx.ConnectInputs(mapInputs, mapTestPoolTmp, CDiskTxPos(1,1,1), pindexPrev, false, true))
1222 2012-05-15 21:21:15 <TD> continue;
1223 2012-05-15 21:21:32 <TD> IOW if a pending transaction doesn't connect because it's a double spend it just sits in the pool until the node is restarted
1224 2012-05-15 21:21:48 <gmaxwell> TD: I think the protocol checksums are OKAY. There are a fair number of networks that do horrible things to tcp connections. Checksum failures are way better than mystery behavior. Also, the code makes it pretty easy to make it a MAC for authenticated peers.
1225 2012-05-15 21:21:53 <luke-jr> if it was already in the pool, maybe
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1227 2012-05-15 21:22:05 <TD> right
1228 2012-05-15 21:22:43 lfm has quit (Quit: bye)
1229 2012-05-15 21:22:57 <sipa> Matt_von_Mises: addresses are RIPEMD160(SHA256(pubkey))
1230 2012-05-15 21:23:03 <TD> i'm tracking down some obscure edge cases in the bitcoinj re-org code and i'm getting less convinced satoshis code handles them either
1231 2012-05-15 21:23:17 <Matt_von_Mises> sipa, addresses have checksums
1232 2012-05-15 21:23:27 <sipa> yes, those are double-SHA256
1233 2012-05-15 21:23:40 <sipa> and it should only have been a simple CRC
1234 2012-05-15 21:23:43 <gmaxwell> (My cell provider inserts bursts of random noise in TCP connections from time to time. Not often but enough that I notice it break ssh and sometimes show up in webpages)
1235 2012-05-15 21:23:47 <sipa> but we're stuck with it
1236 2012-05-15 21:23:52 <Matt_von_Mises> Thats what I mean? What's the point?
1237 2012-05-15 21:24:02 <gmaxwell> It's important that it have some kind of check value.
1238 2012-05-15 21:24:14 SETKEHS-CAT is now known as setkeh
1239 2012-05-15 21:24:21 <sipa> none, but satoshi probably thought double-sha256 was a nice and safe choice, and used it for everything
1240 2012-05-15 21:24:27 <Matt_von_Mises> Laziness? "Hmm might as well use the double SHA-256"
1241 2012-05-15 21:24:29 <gmaxwell> If crc and sha256^2 were equally good for this then sha256^2 would be better from a minimize code perspective. But a CRC (or RS code) would be a lot better in fact.
1242 2012-05-15 21:24:44 <sipa> faster and better error detection properties
1243 2012-05-15 21:25:20 <gmaxwell> faster meh.. the fact that you can fairly often find single character errors that pass stinks and a CRC or RS code could completely prevent that.
1244 2012-05-15 21:25:37 <sipa> yup
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1250 2012-05-15 21:31:16 <sipa> TD: so, you have the answer already?
1251 2012-05-15 21:31:22 <TD> i think so
1252 2012-05-15 21:31:26 <TD> just wanted a double check
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1254 2012-05-15 21:33:11 <sipa> txA is in the chain, txB spends txA and is in the mempool; the branch that contains txA gets removed; now txA and txB are in the memory pool
1255 2012-05-15 21:33:12 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1318 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1318>
1256 2012-05-15 21:33:31 <sipa> wait, there was a double-spending as well?
1257 2012-05-15 21:34:29 <TD> A is deeply buried. B spends A and is in the memory pool. a re-org causes a new branch to become active that contains C, which double-spends A and takes precedence. B becomes "dead" although satoshis code has no such concept in it, that's terminology i invented for bitcoinj
1258 2012-05-15 21:34:45 <TD> in the bitcoin-qt UI it just looks like it's pending, though it will actually never confirm
1259 2012-05-15 21:34:55 <TD> now there's a re-org back to the original chain
1260 2012-05-15 21:35:14 <sipa> what you see in the UI is wallet code; it has no concept of conflicts with the blockchain
1261 2012-05-15 21:35:18 <jgarzik> TD: it will never confirm.... unless another re-org sets things right, yes?
1262 2012-05-15 21:35:22 <TD> so B is in the mempool already, C is "resurrected" and tries to enter the mempool ....
1263 2012-05-15 21:35:33 <sipa> the fact that it's pending in the UI doesn't mean anything
1264 2012-05-15 21:35:38 <TD> yeah exactly
1265 2012-05-15 21:35:48 <TD> sipa: though arguably the difference should be called out to the user.
1266 2012-05-15 21:35:57 <jgarzik> you want to keep them both around, in case a re-org is reversed in a future re-org
1267 2012-05-15 21:35:59 <sipa> TD: absolutely; it's on my todo list
1268 2012-05-15 21:36:06 <TD> i think what happens is that C gets dropped because it tries to double spend inputs of a transaction that's already in the mempool
1269 2012-05-15 21:36:12 <jgarzik> i.e. a double spend attack is backed out
1270 2012-05-15 21:36:23 <sipa> (negative confirmations for transactions that conflict with things in the blockchain)
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1272 2012-05-15 21:37:27 <TD> specifically, C will silently return out of AddToMemoryPool in the code that checks for transaction replacement
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1274 2012-05-15 21:37:34 <sipa> let's think: when the first reorg happens, i assume B just remains in the memory pool
1275 2012-05-15 21:37:42 <jgarzik> you don't want A-reorg-B-reorg-C to kill valid tx's from chain state A, if B is an attack chain that will eventually be reversed.
1276 2012-05-15 21:37:43 <gmaxwell> We also should have a delete that works on transactions which are at least -6 â I think we can add that earlier than generic stuck transaction handling.
1277 2012-05-15 21:37:56 <jgarzik> that's the classic example, a double-spend chain winning, and then losing.
1278 2012-05-15 21:38:27 <TD> hrmm
1279 2012-05-15 21:38:28 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1280 2012-05-15 21:38:36 <TD> so the key variable is mapNextTx
1281 2012-05-15 21:38:37 _Fireball has quit (Quit: icbit.se)
1282 2012-05-15 21:38:47 <sipa> TD: i think you're right; C won't get in the memory pool
1283 2012-05-15 21:39:07 <sipa> though i don't know the details of all the memorypool management
1284 2012-05-15 21:39:20 <TD> it's complicated
1285 2012-05-15 21:39:37 <TD> i'm not sure i see anywhere that removes things from mapNextTx in the case of a block that overrides a pending tx
1286 2012-05-15 21:39:50 copumpkin has joined
1287 2012-05-15 21:39:52 <sipa> i can't find any such thing either
1288 2012-05-15 21:40:15 <TD> so the memory pool can maybe get inconsistent - if a block double spends away a pending TX, the memory pool code will continue to believe that output was spent by the pending tX. that's why C won't re-enter the pool
1289 2012-05-15 21:40:20 <TD> but it feels like an accident rather than something designed
1290 2012-05-15 21:40:31 <sipa> TD: sounds like you're right
1291 2012-05-15 21:42:03 <sipa> now, when moving back to the branch containing B, first C will try to be moved to the memorypool (which will fail), and one step further B is removed from the memory pool (since it is now in the chain)
1292 2012-05-15 21:42:13 <sipa> if the order was different, it would work
1293 2012-05-15 21:42:57 <sipa> (the last two BOOST_FOREACH'es in main.cpp, Reorganize()
1294 2012-05-15 21:43:43 <TD> B doesn't have to be in the chain
1295 2012-05-15 21:43:48 <TD> it might not have been included by a miner yet
1296 2012-05-15 21:44:28 <TD> but in that case i think it also does the "right thing" - mapNextTx is consistent again
1297 2012-05-15 21:44:53 <TD> and my code is correct, phew. it assumes dead transactions take priority over resurrected transactions
1298 2012-05-15 21:44:59 <TD> which i think is right
1299 2012-05-15 21:46:17 <sipa> oh, of course; my mistake
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1305 2012-05-15 21:53:41 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1319 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1319>
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1307 2012-05-15 21:59:59 Joric_ is now known as Joric
1308 2012-05-15 22:01:09 <Matt_von_Mises> Anyone know how to link OpenSSL to a program on OSX?
1309 2012-05-15 22:03:50 <Matt_von_Mises> -lcrypto -lssl Linker flags worked
1310 2012-05-15 22:04:22 <TD> damnit. i hate how people make it hard to find their email addresses these days
1311 2012-05-15 22:04:38 <TD> what's with your project website linking your name to github which in turn only links to your twitter page
1312 2012-05-15 22:04:59 <TD> which then in turn links to a google profile
1313 2012-05-15 22:05:00 <TD> argh
1314 2012-05-15 22:09:39 <luke-jr> TD: I just cheat and use git.
1315 2012-05-15 22:09:50 <luke-jr> clone some repo of theirs and git log :D
1316 2012-05-15 22:09:54 <gmaxwell> TD: clone their repo on github and look at the log.
1317 2012-05-15 22:10:00 <TD> hah
1318 2012-05-15 22:10:02 <TD> didn't think of that
1319 2012-05-15 22:10:10 <gmaxwell> I had to do this just the other dayâ had the same complaint as you. :)
1320 2012-05-15 22:12:21 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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1322 2012-05-15 22:14:51 Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1323 2012-05-15 22:16:23 <eian> Is there a programatic way to get the geographical location of the peers I'm connected to? (Assuming I have the IP address)
1324 2012-05-15 22:16:53 <eian> Is there some online database I can query?
1325 2012-05-15 22:16:59 <luke-jr> http://www.maxmind.com/app/ip-location
1326 2012-05-15 22:17:32 <eian> luke, thanks
1327 2012-05-15 22:18:06 Slix` has joined
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1329 2012-05-15 22:19:05 <eian> luke, any idea how much that costs?
1330 2012-05-15 22:19:21 <luke-jr> eian: nothing, if you just want states
1331 2012-05-15 22:19:36 <eian> oh, I didn't notice the free version
1332 2012-05-15 22:19:46 <eian> I was hoping for something that did international lookups
1333 2012-05-15 22:25:12 <luke-jr> ?
1334 2012-05-15 22:25:15 <luke-jr> afaik it's international
1335 2012-05-15 22:26:07 <gmaxwell> eian: the nothing is for state or lower resolution.
1336 2012-05-15 22:26:30 <gmaxwell> The commercial DB's will get you down to street addresses (and they're accurate at least to zipcodes in many cases)
1337 2012-05-15 22:28:20 <luke-jr> whois an IP is also handy, but I don't think you can hit it too hard
1338 2012-05-15 22:32:14 erle- has quit (Quit: erle-)
1339 2012-05-15 22:35:10 <eian> thanks guys
1340 2012-05-15 22:35:14 Lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026200743])
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1342 2012-05-15 22:42:12 <weex> < luke-jr> weex: that check won't beat finney
1343 2012-05-15 22:42:54 <weex> thankfully the economics of small transactions <$100 make finney unlikely to be tried
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1357 2012-05-15 23:08:11 <ashconnor> Anybody managed to compile bitcoin on osx using homebrew instead of macports?
1358 2012-05-15 23:12:13 BCBot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1359 2012-05-15 23:14:43 <eian> I'm connected to 1400 bitcoin nodes! Yee ha
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1362 2012-05-15 23:24:29 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: chickentech opened issue 1320 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1320>
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1367 2012-05-15 23:31:51 <gmaxwell> weex: finney costs ~nothing to perform.
1368 2012-05-15 23:32:29 <gmaxwell> weex: I meanâ sure below some value you don't really care if a few jerks rip you off, but thats not the same as the attacks not happening.
1369 2012-05-15 23:33:33 <gmaxwell> weex: also 'get lots of nodes to accept a txn' doesn't even require a finney attack to defeat.
1370 2012-05-15 23:34:50 Matt_von_Mises has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1371 2012-05-15 23:35:05 <gmaxwell> weex: I just near simultaneously release a txn paying you to your node. ... and a conflicting one directly to deepbit and btcguild's nodes. You'll get lots and lots of nodes to accept the one paying you, and you'll still likely not make it in the chain.
1372 2012-05-15 23:35:09 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@pool-96-226-236-130.dllstx.fios.verizon.net|brwyatt
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1376 2012-05-15 23:54:14 <tosku> I updated to 0.6.2 for Windows.
1377 2012-05-15 23:54:29 <tosku> There seems to be something wrong with the Swedish translation.
1378 2012-05-15 23:54:45 <tosku> Every button text starts with "amp; "
1379 2012-05-15 23:55:24 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
1380 2012-05-15 23:55:51 <tosku> Well, not every, but the home button, send bitcoins button and the receive bitcoins button.
1381 2012-05-15 23:56:06 <Diablo-D3> [07:52:53] <MagicalTux> we have written consent from Dwolla, basically now Dwolla has "normal" merchant accounts, and "special" merchant accounts with extra requirements
1382 2012-05-15 23:56:58 <luke-jr> tosku: fix it? :P
1383 2012-05-15 23:57:42 <tosku> luke-jr: Sure, if you tell me how :)
1384 2012-05-15 23:57:59 <luke-jr> some website
1385 2012-05-15 23:58:25 <gavinandresen> transifex.com
1386 2012-05-15 23:58:33 <luke-jr> ^ :D
1387 2012-05-15 23:58:42 <gavinandresen> err, .net maybe
1388 2012-05-15 23:58:52 t7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1389 2012-05-15 23:58:54 <tosku> it redirects
1390 2012-05-15 23:58:54 <luke-jr> (I actually suspect transifex might be to blame for it, since it keeps being reintroducedâ¦)
1391 2012-05-15 23:59:48 <gavinandresen> https://www.transifex.net/projects/p/bitcoin/