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   6 2012-05-22 00:17:46 <sipa> how do you mean gcc isn't deterministic? the build of gcc itself?
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   8 2012-05-22 00:24:37 <luke-jr> sipa: right
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  13 2012-05-22 00:47:05 * luke-jr wishes gitian didn't blow results away so proactively - @ devrandom
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  15 2012-05-22 00:52:22 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: fanquake opened issue 1373 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1373>
  16 2012-05-22 00:52:47 Hasbro has joined
  17 2012-05-22 00:53:40 <diki> well I'll be
  18 2012-05-22 00:53:43 <diki> WindowsError: [Error 8] Not enough storage is available to process this command
  19 2012-05-22 00:53:51 <diki> odd...why is Abe doing this
  20 2012-05-22 00:54:04 <luke-jr> because you use Windows
  21 2012-05-22 00:54:11 <diki> har har
  22 2012-05-22 00:54:19 <diki> Linux is pretty much dead as a DESKTOP os
  23 2012-05-22 00:54:30 <luke-jr> no u
  24 2012-05-22 00:54:32 <diki> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/252516/why_linux_on_the_desktop_is_dead.html
  25 2012-05-22 00:54:52 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: Are you okay?
  26 2012-05-22 00:55:12 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: yeah, forgot it was diki for a second
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  55 2012-05-22 02:36:45 * luke-jr wonders how we build on Mac when MSG_NOSIGNAL is not defined
  56 2012-05-22 02:38:12 <gmaxwell>  DEFS=-DMAC_OSX -DMSG_NOSIGNAL=0 -DUSE_IPV6
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  61 2012-05-22 02:43:16 <jgarzik> 100 orphan tx's on the wall...
  62 2012-05-22 02:43:22 <luke-jr> /home/luke-jr/src/cross-osx/ii/bin/i686-apple-darwin9-ld: truncated or malformed archive: /home/luke-jr/src/cross-osx/ii/lib/libboost_filesystem-gcc40-mt-s-1_47.a at offset 162760 (member extends past the end of the file, can't load from it)
  63 2012-05-22 02:43:24 <luke-jr> hmm
  64 2012-05-22 02:43:49 <jgarzik> 110 orphans
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  69 2012-05-22 02:46:16 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: only seen another 368 orphans since early this morning at my node.
  70 2012-05-22 02:46:50 <Diablo-D3> those orphans bother me
  71 2012-05-22 02:46:54 <Diablo-D3> what if its an attack to steal bitcoins
  72 2012-05-22 02:48:18 <gmaxwell> did finway possess your soul while we weren't looking?
  73 2012-05-22 02:48:49 <jgarzik> 152 orphans
  74 2012-05-22 02:48:55 smtmnyz_ is now known as smtmnyz
  75 2012-05-22 02:49:45 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: ?
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  77 2012-05-22 02:50:31 <gmaxwell> There is no reason to think its 'an attack to steal bitcoins' .. weird things go on all the time — and I don't even think the load I'm seing now is weird.
  78 2012-05-22 02:50:36 <gmaxwell> (last night OTOH was weird)
  79 2012-05-22 02:50:54 <luke-jr> probably someone trying to exploit the recent DDoS :p
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  81 2012-05-22 02:52:18 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: at least the few I captured and decoded were dice transactions.
  82 2012-05-22 02:52:24 <luke-jr> oh
  83 2012-05-22 02:52:37 <luke-jr> someone did mention earlier dice being faster, not waiting for blocks
  84 2012-05-22 02:52:40 <luke-jr> maybe related?
  85 2012-05-22 02:52:42 <gmaxwell> could have just been timing.
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  87 2012-05-22 02:52:57 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: it deals exculsively with unconfirmed transactions
  88 2012-05-22 02:53:08 <luke-jr> hm
  89 2012-05-22 02:53:25 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: I dunno, Im extra paranoid.,
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 103 2012-05-22 03:22:38 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: any idea why linking has undefined symbols: ___stack_chk_guard ___stack_chk_fail
 104 2012-05-22 03:22:39 <luke-jr> ?
 105 2012-05-22 03:25:10 <gmaxwell> you're building with -fstack-protector but not linking libssp .. on linux that linking is hidden, but it's not always well hidden elsewhere.
 106 2012-05-22 03:25:30 <gmaxwell> (E.g. it's not hiddwn with mingw builds, but we don't use -fstack-protector with mingw for some reason)
 107 2012-05-22 03:28:49 <luke-jr> does Mac have it?
 108 2012-05-22 03:29:48 <gmaxwell> it should be built by gcc.
 109 2012-05-22 03:29:56 <gmaxwell> (it's effectively part of libgcc)
 110 2012-05-22 03:30:28 <luke-jr> 4.0?
 111 2012-05-22 03:31:54 <gmaxwell> You've now exhausted my knoweldge on the subject— just turn off the stack protector for now.
 112 2012-05-22 03:32:46 <luke-jr> XD
 113 2012-05-22 03:32:54 <luke-jr> bitcoind seems to be downloading the blockchain on Mac
 114 2012-05-22 03:33:07 <luke-jr> now to get it gitian finished
 115 2012-05-22 03:40:29 <jgarzik> orphans seem to have stopped just after I wrote the above.  checked just now... 152 before, 156 now.
 116 2012-05-22 03:40:40 <jgarzik> so, a burst of orphans
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 122 2012-05-22 03:59:47 <Diablo-D3> https://imgur.com/y7Hm9
 123 2012-05-22 04:01:44 <copumpkin> (because I prove it correct first)
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 133 2012-05-22 04:39:01 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: fanquake opened pull request 1374 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1374>
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 180 2012-05-22 07:32:47 <SomeoneWeird> https://github.com/bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-server/issues/73
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 189 2012-05-22 07:41:03 <jgarzik> T-minus seven minutes to SpaceX launch
 190 2012-05-22 07:43:56 <Diablo-D3> t minus 4 minutes until launch: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
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 195 2012-05-22 07:50:57 <Joric> heard it was established by a former paypal founder... let's finally launch paypal into space!
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 200 2012-05-22 08:00:19 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: rebroad opened pull request 1375 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1375>
 201 2012-05-22 08:14:52 RainbowDashh is now known as Rabbit67890
 202 2012-05-22 08:15:43 <nathan7> well dammit
 203 2012-05-22 08:15:46 <nathan7> I missed it
 204 2012-05-22 08:20:48 <Joric> it's flying! http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
 205 2012-05-22 08:23:40 <mtve> hi!    where can i get v0.5.5?
 206 2012-05-22 08:31:45 <Eliel> interesting, it's not linked to from the main bitcoin.org page...
 207 2012-05-22 08:31:49 <Eliel> I can't locate it either
 208 2012-05-22 08:32:18 <mtve> havn't found it either in github nor in sf/svn
 209 2012-05-22 08:32:26 <Eliel> luke-jr: where did you hide it?
 210 2012-05-22 08:33:31 <Eliel> ah, google got me this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=79651.0
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 212 2012-05-22 08:37:26 <mtve> great, thanks!  (now gitorious seems down to me, but that's another story)
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 221 2012-05-22 09:19:11 <mtve> nevertheless, 0.6.2.2 fixes high cpu problem on freebsd too, will stay with it.  thanks again.
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 240 2012-05-22 10:59:34 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: rebroad opened pull request 1376 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1376>
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 243 2012-05-22 11:04:38 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: rebroad opened pull request 1377 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1377>
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 246 2012-05-22 11:14:50 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: rebroad opened pull request 1378 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1378>
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 273 2012-05-22 12:31:24 <drizztbsd> hi
 274 2012-05-22 12:31:52 <drizztbsd> luke-jr: damn pocoo (closed), do you still have your kvm script to do mining under kvm?
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 277 2012-05-22 12:50:50 <luke-jr> drizztbsd: http://codepad.org/mmI1rwLa
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 279 2012-05-22 13:01:19 <imsaguy2> wumpus, give me a few days.  I have to let it get behind so it will show the progress bar/text.
 280 2012-05-22 13:01:33 <imsaguy2> or I guess I could just clear my blockchain and redownload
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 296 2012-05-22 13:38:58 <drizztbsd> luke-jr: so are you using another card for the host?
 297 2012-05-22 13:43:17 <luke-jr> drizztbsd: I'm using my APU's GPU
 298 2012-05-22 13:43:26 <drizztbsd> right :)
 299 2012-05-22 13:43:37 <drizztbsd> I could use my internal nvidia
 300 2012-05-22 13:44:10 <luke-jr> ewww :p
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 319 2012-05-22 14:49:59 <diki> slush:I ran into a bit of a slump with Abe. Since the blockchain is now 1.4 gigs or more, Abe fails to run dying on mmap.mmap. Asking around I was told it is probably because mmap cannot address more space cause my python is 32bit. Yeah ok, but 64-bit python didn't have some modules required for running abe(or these modules failed to install under it).
 320 2012-05-22 14:50:19 <diki> Do you know of a fix?
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 328 2012-05-22 14:57:47 <sol56> anyone know why ArmoryQt.py segfaults?
 329 2012-05-22 14:59:16 bitcoinhacker has joined
 330 2012-05-22 14:59:42 <slush> diki: Yes,it's the most likely because 32bit. As far as it needs mmap - no, i don't know the fix :(
 331 2012-05-22 14:59:57 <sol56> well im running 64bit debian
 332 2012-05-22 15:00:05 <slush> but 32bit python?
 333 2012-05-22 15:00:30 <sol56> dunno
 334 2012-05-22 15:00:33 <sol56> i dont think so
 335 2012-05-22 15:03:42 <slush> sol56: python -c 'import struct;print( 8 * struct.calcsize("P"))'
 336 2012-05-22 15:03:48 <slush> will print 32 or 64...
 337 2012-05-22 15:04:02 <sol56> root@Sucker:~# python -c 'import struct;print( 8 * struct.calcsize("P"))' 64 root@Sucker:~#
 338 2012-05-22 15:04:25 <sol56> is 64
 339 2012-05-22 15:06:06 <slush> sol56: I'm reading about mmap and there's no obvious reason why it should fail
 340 2012-05-22 15:06:29 <slush> can you obtain how much memory is it trying to allocate?
 341 2012-05-22 15:06:29 <sol56> its something about maping the blockchain
 342 2012-05-22 15:08:23 <sol56> COMMAND         %MEM python          16.6
 343 2012-05-22 15:08:38 <sol56> slush: so thats around when it crashes
 344 2012-05-22 15:08:45 <sol56> i have 16gb of RAM
 345 2012-05-22 15:09:44 Z0rZ0rZ0r has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 346 2012-05-22 15:10:23 <drizztbsd> diki: 32bit => 2gb
 347 2012-05-22 15:10:37 setkeh has quit (Quit: Love sharing knowledge? Chat in the Linux Distro Community #linuxdistrocommunity)
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 350 2012-05-22 15:12:44 <diki> drizztbsd:yes I was aware of the limitations of a 32-bit OSs' process memory addressability
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 357 2012-05-22 15:14:30 <drizztbsd> blockchain is 1.4gb :P
 358 2012-05-22 15:14:41 <sol56> yeah welll
 359 2012-05-22 15:14:44 <sol56> what the heck...
 360 2012-05-22 15:14:56 <diki> drizztbsd:but it still fails
 361 2012-05-22 15:15:50 <diki> It worked before
 362 2012-05-22 15:16:14 <diki> But I had to shutdown my PC, as I booted it up and tried to start abe(while the blkchain was still the same size) it failed
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 366 2012-05-22 15:19:49 <diki> Fixed it
 367 2012-05-22 15:20:01 <diki> I downloaded this app that applies the Large Memory Aware flag
 368 2012-05-22 15:20:11 <diki> did it on the python process, and it works now
 369 2012-05-22 15:20:12 sol56t is now known as sol56
 370 2012-05-22 15:20:38 mndrix has joined
 371 2012-05-22 15:20:51 <jgarzik> mndrix: your SIGHUP patch was merged
 372 2012-05-22 15:21:17 <sol56> slush any ideas on the mmap fix?
 373 2012-05-22 15:21:47 <slush> hm, no :-(
 374 2012-05-22 15:21:52 <sol56> :(
 375 2012-05-22 15:21:52 <slush> I have to go, bye!
 376 2012-05-22 15:21:55 <sol56> cya
 377 2012-05-22 15:22:18 bitcoinhacker is now known as graingert_ecs
 378 2012-05-22 15:22:23 <diki> sol56:I found one
 379 2012-05-22 15:22:28 <diki> if you are on windows that is..
 380 2012-05-22 15:22:34 <sol56> im running 64bit linux
 381 2012-05-22 15:22:35 <sol56> so now
 382 2012-05-22 15:22:36 <sol56> no*
 383 2012-05-22 15:22:38 <sol56> lol
 384 2012-05-22 15:23:26 <diki> Oh man..I really hope I won't have to re-import the blockchain in mysql
 385 2012-05-22 15:23:51 <diki> usually when I quit abe I have to manually fix the blk offset in mysql
 386 2012-05-22 15:24:05 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
 387 2012-05-22 15:24:07 <diki> and apply some queries to let me continue importing without gettign the duplicate error
 388 2012-05-22 15:27:43 <diki> sometimes, very rarely
 389 2012-05-22 15:27:50 <sol56> the irritating thing
 390 2012-05-22 15:27:55 <diki> you would mess it up so bad with missing satoshi_seconds_destroyed
 391 2012-05-22 15:27:59 <sol56> is its just Armory
 392 2012-05-22 15:28:08 <sol56> if i delete the blockchain
 393 2012-05-22 15:28:09 <diki> that you are forced to re-import
 394 2012-05-22 15:28:11 <sol56> it starts
 395 2012-05-22 15:28:15 <sol56> yeah
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 398 2012-05-22 15:32:47 <diki> All is working well, but I have 10-15k blocks to import left
 399 2012-05-22 15:32:51 <diki> and those will take a while
 400 2012-05-22 15:32:57 faraday_ has joined
 401 2012-05-22 15:33:03 <diki> at least a few days
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 416 2012-05-22 16:00:43 <wumpus> imsaguy2: I guess it looks the same as http://bitcoin.sipa.be/bitcoinqt.png ?
 417 2012-05-22 16:02:45 <imsaguy2> pretty close
 418 2012-05-22 16:02:58 <imsaguy2> if the blue was solid, it'd be ok
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 425 2012-05-22 16:12:24 <wumpus> imsaguy2: but it is also the windows base theme, not windows xp or vista?
 426 2012-05-22 16:13:17 kish has joined
 427 2012-05-22 16:13:23 <imsaguy2> if you run windows with the themes service stopped (or you pick it), it runs in a 'classic' theme
 428 2012-05-22 16:13:29 <imsaguy2> almost windows 2kish
 429 2012-05-22 16:13:39 <imsaguy2> its like the base theme that everything else customizes
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 431 2012-05-22 16:14:05 <wumpus> right
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 442 2012-05-22 16:30:11 nicholas74 has joined
 443 2012-05-22 16:31:25 <nicholas74> question about wallets and private keys: is there essentially a difference, from a technical / protocol point of view, between one wallet with two private keys (and two corresponding public addresses) and two wallets with one private key (and one public address) each?
 444 2012-05-22 16:31:44 <sipa> from the point of the network protocol: no
 445 2012-05-22 16:31:53 BurtyBB has joined
 446 2012-05-22 16:31:58 <sipa> wallets are a concept that only exists at the user's end
 447 2012-05-22 16:32:29 <nicholas74> ok.. so if I have one wallet with 2 keys & addresses, and someone pays me 10 btc at address1 and 10 btc at address2, my client says I have 20 btc
 448 2012-05-22 16:32:40 <sipa> yes
 449 2012-05-22 16:32:51 <nicholas74> now if I pay 15 btc, from what private key(s) will this be subtracted?
 450 2012-05-22 16:33:10 <kinlo> both
 451 2012-05-22 16:33:13 <nicholas74> and does this in fact consist of two payments, rather than one?
 452 2012-05-22 16:33:17 <diki> I tried extracting the bitcoin address generator from vanitygen but I still havent made it to work
 453 2012-05-22 16:33:19 kish has joined
 454 2012-05-22 16:33:22 <sipa> nicholas74: that's the #1 fallacy when trying to understand bitcoin
 455 2012-05-22 16:33:24 <diki> so would there be a more cleaner version in C?
 456 2012-05-22 16:33:26 BurtyB has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 457 2012-05-22 16:33:27 <kinlo> no, it will be one payment with 2 inputs and 2 outputs
 458 2012-05-22 16:33:39 <sipa> nicholas74: there is no "payment from a key" or "balance per address"
 459 2012-05-22 16:33:40 <kinlo> 2 times a 10 btc input, 1 15 btc output, one 5 btc output
 460 2012-05-22 16:33:41 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: laanwj opened pull request 1379 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1379>
 461 2012-05-22 16:33:51 <kinlo> and the 5 btc output will be to a new address inside your wallet
 462 2012-05-22 16:33:58 <sipa> nicholas74: the payment transaction you create will explicitly consume outputs of previous transaction(s)
 463 2012-05-22 16:34:00 <kinlo> but the gui hides that, it will just show "15 sent"
 464 2012-05-22 16:34:04 <gmaxwell> nicholas74: see the illustration near the top of http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
 465 2012-05-22 16:34:17 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 466 2012-05-22 16:34:21 <gmaxwell> Bitcoin is a system of coins (transactions), not balances.
 467 2012-05-22 16:34:31 <nicholas74> ok, i understand,
 468 2012-05-22 16:34:59 <nicholas74> so at any moment in time, I can deduct my amount of btc (at least what I perceive as "my balance") from all transactions in history
 469 2012-05-22 16:35:10 <nicholas74> where "my btc" means "btc for which I own the private keys"
 470 2012-05-22 16:35:15 <nicholas74> is that correct?
 471 2012-05-22 16:35:18 <kinlo> you will always spent full transactions
 472 2012-05-22 16:35:44 <kinlo> and you can ofcourse only spend transactions that haven't been spent beore
 473 2012-05-22 16:35:48 <kinlo> before*
 474 2012-05-22 16:36:07 <kinlo> but yes, "my btc" means the coins you have the private keys for
 475 2012-05-22 16:36:23 <kinlo> and those you have the private keys for are those you can spend
 476 2012-05-22 16:36:47 <nicholas74> so if I have privkey1 with 10 btc and privkey2 with 10 btc (right now my client will say "your wallet contains 20 btc"),
 477 2012-05-22 16:36:53 <nicholas74> and I pay 15 btc to someone else,
 478 2012-05-22 16:36:54 t7 has joined
 479 2012-05-22 16:37:00 <kinlo> you will create 1 transaction
 480 2012-05-22 16:37:20 <kinlo> with 2 inputs (transactions, signed with privkey1 and privkey2)
 481 2012-05-22 16:37:22 <kinlo> and 2 outputs
 482 2012-05-22 16:37:27 <nicholas74> I end up with.. privkey3 which "has" 5 btc ?
 483 2012-05-22 16:37:31 <kinlo> 1 new transaction, for you, with 5 btc
 484 2012-05-22 16:37:32 <kinlo> yep
 485 2012-05-22 16:37:35 <sipa> nicholas74: you will create a transaction with 2 inputs (the two 10btc coins), and two outputs (5 BTC and 15 BTC, each with a different destination, one the real payment, one change sent back to yourself)
 486 2012-05-22 16:37:36 <kinlo> and 1 for the target
 487 2012-05-22 16:37:38 <nicholas74> ("has" as in corresponds to 5 btc according to the network)
 488 2012-05-22 16:37:54 <nicholas74> right, ok
 489 2012-05-22 16:38:06 <kinlo> nicholas74: correct, your wallet contains no coins, the blockchain contains the money if you want to look at it that way
 490 2012-05-22 16:38:20 kish has joined
 491 2012-05-22 16:38:22 <nicholas74> yeah ok
 492 2012-05-22 16:38:22 <kinlo> your wallet only contains private keys so you can proove you own them
 493 2012-05-22 16:38:25 <gmaxwell> nicholas74: the better mental model is one of atomic coins that have a size and a owner printed on them.  When you make transactions you send some set of coins off to the network (the forge) to be remade into new coins with new values and owners.
 494 2012-05-22 16:38:49 <nicholas74> gmaxwell: awesome explanation, got it
 495 2012-05-22 16:39:06 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 496 2012-05-22 16:39:09 <nicholas74> and whenever new coins get forged (from molten old ones), a new private key is generated for each new coin?
 497 2012-05-22 16:39:16 <Diablo-D3> http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/via-launch-a-49-android-pc-20120522/
 498 2012-05-22 16:39:29 smtmnyz_ has joined
 499 2012-05-22 16:39:36 <gmaxwell> Thats our behavior for the change from transactions— it's not mandated by the protocol but it provides greater privacy to do that.
 500 2012-05-22 16:39:51 smtmnyz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 501 2012-05-22 16:39:54 <nicholas74> ok neat
 502 2012-05-22 16:39:58 ThomasV has joined
 503 2012-05-22 16:40:01 <gmaxwell> You're allowed to reuse addresses.. but then someone snooping can tell those addresses are owned by the same party.
 504 2012-05-22 16:40:04 <sipa> kinlo, nicholas74: it's not entirely true that a wallet does not contain coins, by the way; you need the coins to create transactions, and those are kept in the wallet; they get synchronized from the block chain, though
 505 2012-05-22 16:40:36 <nicholas74> yeah if I delete my wallet file, but still have my private key, I could regenerate the wallet, right?
 506 2012-05-22 16:40:55 <sipa> most parts of it
 507 2012-05-22 16:41:14 <sipa> but if you had an unconfirmed transaction in your wallet, there is a risk the network will forget it
 508 2012-05-22 16:41:32 <sipa> and the blockchain does not know about accounts, comments, labels, ...
 509 2012-05-22 16:42:04 <gavinandresen> sipa gmaxwell : I want to pull https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1349  now so it gets lots of testing....
 510 2012-05-22 16:42:10 <nicholas74> by the way, I was actually under the impression that if I lose my wallet, but still have my private key, I can import the key (at least with MultiBit which I'm using right now) and restore my wallet (except for notes or address books or other personal stuff, but at least the money that it "contained" (well not really but u catch my drift))
 511 2012-05-22 16:42:46 <sipa> nicholas74: yes, that's theoretically possible
 512 2012-05-22 16:43:24 kish has joined
 513 2012-05-22 16:43:43 <nicholas74> ok, but suppose I export my private key(s).. then I make a payment (which gets confirmed) and then I lose my wallet file. I still have the private keys but they're from *before* I made that transaction
 514 2012-05-22 16:43:43 PK has joined
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 517 2012-05-22 16:44:28 <nicholas74> I thought I could still restore my wallet (or at least the btc) with that, but now as I understand the transaction actually generated a new privkey for me (for my remaining btc)
 518 2012-05-22 16:44:41 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: I don't oppose— though might we want to address the compressed key performance before release? if we're concerned about DOS attacks the attacker will of course pick the most expensive form to send.
 519 2012-05-22 16:45:06 <gmaxwell> nicholas74: the reference client precomputes keys 100 ahead of your actual use.
 520 2012-05-22 16:45:18 <gmaxwell> nicholas74: so long as you didn't use up 100 keys between backups you're safe.
 521 2012-05-22 16:45:23 <sipa> gavinandresen: i wonder if there isn't another solution: keep a set of script+signature-verified transaction hashes in memory
 522 2012-05-22 16:45:35 <sipa> gavinandresen: so move it to the tx layer instead of the key layer
 523 2012-05-22 16:45:47 <nicholas74> uhm.. these 100 precomputed privkeys are stored in my wallet?
 524 2012-05-22 16:45:51 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: I don't think there's an issue with compressed key performance, the only reason it looks like there is is because with the sig cache verification is so much faster....
 525 2012-05-22 16:45:51 Clipse has quit (Quit: Clipse)
 526 2012-05-22 16:45:51 <sipa> nicholas74: yes
 527 2012-05-22 16:45:55 <gmaxwell> sipa: well, I could then flood you with script that force lots of checksigs.. but which are pointlessly different.
 528 2012-05-22 16:46:00 <gmaxwell> sipa: thus defatin the cache.
 529 2012-05-22 16:46:03 <nicholas74> but if I export my key, it only stores one key (well at least MultiBit does)
 530 2012-05-22 16:46:37 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: yea, but — why isn't the compressed key handling behind the cache at least?
 531 2012-05-22 16:46:37 <nicholas74> so what you said with being safe as long as I didn't make 100 transactions since my last backup, only holds for wallet files, not for private keys which I exported manually, right?
 532 2012-05-22 16:46:47 <gmaxwell> nicholas74: correct.
 533 2012-05-22 16:46:53 <nicholas74> ok
 534 2012-05-22 16:46:57 <nicholas74> thx
 535 2012-05-22 16:47:02 <sipa> gmaxwell: the decompression is inside openssl
 536 2012-05-22 16:47:04 <gmaxwell> nicholas74: which is why exporting private keys is not promoted as a backup method! :)
 537 2012-05-22 16:47:36 <nicholas74> hehe understood :)
 538 2012-05-22 16:47:37 <wumpus> you'd need to export *all* private keys in the wallet
 539 2012-05-22 16:47:38 <gmaxwell> sipa: I know it is .. actually I thought it was happening in the validation so it would be cached too. :-/
 540 2012-05-22 16:47:40 <nicholas74> good thing I found out before actually using it :)
 541 2012-05-22 16:47:40 <sipa> wait, this doesn't make sense
 542 2012-05-22 16:48:04 <sipa> gavinandresen: your cache stored pubkey/sig/msghash, no?
 543 2012-05-22 16:48:08 <gmaxwell> (I'm unhappy that this means that it's more parts that I don't understand.)
 544 2012-05-22 16:48:25 kish has joined
 545 2012-05-22 16:48:36 <sipa> gavinandresen: i don't see where key decompression is needed, for validation?
 546 2012-05-22 16:49:05 <gavinandresen> cache stores <uint256 sighash, std::vector sig, std::vector pubkey>
 547 2012-05-22 16:49:11 <sipa> gavinandresen: oh, i see
 548 2012-05-22 16:49:15 <gavinandresen> the decompression happens getting the std::vector pubkey
 549 2012-05-22 16:49:21 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 550 2012-05-22 16:49:28 <sipa> gavinandresen: you construct the CKey, and then inside CKey you request GetPubKey() again
 551 2012-05-22 16:49:39 <gavinandresen> If I could store an EC_KEY* in the cache that'd be ok....
 552 2012-05-22 16:49:42 <sipa> i think you can avoid constructing the CKey
 553 2012-05-22 16:49:43 Turingi has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 554 2012-05-22 16:49:45 <diki> nevermind I got it to work
 555 2012-05-22 16:49:51 <nicholas74> however.. I noticed the electrum client, it says it can generate or recover a wallet from a seed (which seems to be one single key: http://ecdsa.org/electrum/seed.html )
 556 2012-05-22 16:49:52 <sipa> as you construct the CKey from the pubkey
 557 2012-05-22 16:50:32 <sipa> gavinandresen: another way would be to change CKey to delay the conversion from pubkey to EC_KEY
 558 2012-05-22 16:50:52 <sipa> i have to go; i'll be back in a few hours
 559 2012-05-22 16:51:24 <sipa> nicholas74: that's a so-called deterministic wallet, where the used keys are in fact not fully random
 560 2012-05-22 16:52:32 <olp> bitcoin-qt doesn't do deterministic wallets anymore?
 561 2012-05-22 16:52:36 <wumpus> right, by using a deterministic random generator you can re-generate all the keys from one master key
 562 2012-05-22 16:52:39 <wumpus> it never did
 563 2012-05-22 16:52:48 <nicholas74> this construction with paying 15 btc (from a total of 20 which consisted of 2x10), leaving 5, resulting in a new single private key which corresponds to my remaining 5 btc.. exactly who or what does that? is that purely client behavior, or is this by design in the protocol?
 564 2012-05-22 16:53:07 <olp> cool, then that's good
 565 2012-05-22 16:53:13 <gmaxwell> 09:36 < gmaxwell> Thats our behavior for the change from transactions— it's not mandated by the protocol but it provides greater privacy to do that.
 566 2012-05-22 16:53:16 <gmaxwell> 09:37 < gmaxwell> You're allowed to reuse addresses.. but then someone snooping can tell those addresses are owned by the same party.
 567 2012-05-22 16:53:25 kish has joined
 568 2012-05-22 16:53:59 <nicholas74> ok
 569 2012-05-22 16:54:15 <gmaxwell> by the protocol you must send your change back to an address you own, unless you want to give it away to the miner... but it doesn't have to be a new address, thats just a really good idea.
 570 2012-05-22 16:54:21 kish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 571 2012-05-22 16:54:32 <nicholas74> aight, i see
 572 2012-05-22 16:54:46 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, depends on what your goal is
 573 2012-05-22 16:54:48 <nicholas74> but with this ever renewing private key whenever I do a transaction, wouldn't that result in a new public address as well?
 574 2012-05-22 16:55:52 <gmaxwell> nicholas74: ... No. You don't just have one address. You should be using a new address with every transaction.
 575 2012-05-22 16:55:56 <nicholas74> so if I have privkey1 with it's corresponding public address1, which I published on my charity website, then I make a payment (so I now have privkey2 (+public address2) with less btc) but then someone else makes a payment to address1)
 576 2012-05-22 16:55:59 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 577 2012-05-22 16:56:12 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: it's pretty much always good. — if you're concerned e.g. about the backup implications use determinsticaly generated change addresses.
 578 2012-05-22 16:56:26 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: if you want to prove to someone you own that change still, sign a message with it.
 579 2012-05-22 16:56:29 <nicholas74> oh ok.. so "publishing" my address to receive btc is not good behavior?
 580 2012-05-22 16:56:43 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i understand that just saying sometimes there are reasons not to
 581 2012-05-22 16:56:48 <gmaxwell> nicholas74: it's good to avoid doing that if you can, you can't always.
 582 2012-05-22 16:57:02 <wumpus> nicholas74: that's perfectly valid, the client wil retain all the older keys and you can still receive btc on them
 583 2012-05-22 16:57:14 <nicholas74> aha ok
 584 2012-05-22 16:57:23 <nicholas74> ooh right that makes sense now
 585 2012-05-22 16:57:42 <nicholas74> so the wallet actually will contain more than 100 private keys even,
 586 2012-05-22 16:57:50 <sipa> gavinandresen: in script.cpp, CheckSig() takes a public key and changes it to a CKey to run VerifySignature on; if you'd move the caching mechanism there, you could avoid the ckey construction (which is slow for compressed one)
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 588 2012-05-22 16:58:18 <wumpus> yes
 589 2012-05-22 16:58:19 <nicholas74> or well, it will contain as many private keys as I have made transactions (since it generates a new one upon every payment I make) + the 100 in advance ?
 590 2012-05-22 16:58:20 <gmaxwell> nicholas74: sure it can conain many and usually does.. it precomputes 100 _ahead_ and stores infinite behind.
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 592 2012-05-22 16:58:29 <nicholas74> ok
 593 2012-05-22 16:58:30 <nicholas74> clear
 594 2012-05-22 16:58:33 <nicholas74> thank you sir :)
 595 2012-05-22 16:58:37 <gmaxwell> nicholas74: not every transaction has change, but thats a reasonable assumption.
 596 2012-05-22 16:58:48 <gmaxwell> e.g. if I pay you 10 btc using a 10 btc input.. no change.
 597 2012-05-22 16:58:57 <nicholas74> right
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 600 2012-05-22 16:59:39 <sipa> gavinandresen: i think that's the easiest solution; if you prefer keeping it at the key level, you could store the pubkey as a field inside CKey, and don't construct the EC_KEY object until necessary
 601 2012-05-22 16:59:52 <nicholas74> I was wondering if privacy was an issue with bitcoin, cause essentially anyone can track any payment in the system
 602 2012-05-22 17:00:26 <gmaxwell> see section 10 of that pdf I linked you to eariler.
 603 2012-05-22 17:00:37 <gavinandresen> sipa: did you see my comments in the commit?  if we want to get serious about speeding up transaction verification then all of this micro-optimization is probably no the right way to do it
 604 2012-05-22 17:00:42 graingert_ecs is now known as coiax
 605 2012-05-22 17:00:45 <nicholas74> so if someone knows *one* address that I have (or that I ever used in the past), they can follow any bitcoins that were paid (or change leftovers) from that address to others, and potentially deduct 'how much money I have'
 606 2012-05-22 17:00:46 <gmaxwell> (actually you really should read the whole thing, it's only about 8 pages long)
 607 2012-05-22 17:00:48 <sipa> gmaxwell: i'm not convinced by your example earlier, by the way, if an attackers sends tons of different signatures for you to check, how is that different from the caching mechanism implemented by gavin now?
 608 2012-05-22 17:00:48 coiax is now known as graingert_ecs
 609 2012-05-22 17:01:09 <gmaxwell> sipa: takes compuation to compute the signatures.
 610 2012-05-22 17:01:13 <nicholas74> gmaxwell: ok, reading..
 611 2012-05-22 17:01:20 <gmaxwell> (in particular valid ones)
 612 2012-05-22 17:01:31 <sipa> gmaxwell: not following why that is different still
 613 2012-05-22 17:02:00 <gavinandresen> if an attacker has to expend more resources to mount the attack than it takes to process the attack then they lose
 614 2012-05-22 17:02:35 <gavinandresen> (DDos attacks where the attacker is stealing somebody else's CPU/bandwidth/whatever are different, of course)
 615 2012-05-22 17:02:46 <sipa> gavinandresen: yes, i saw it, but i think the cost of CKey construction may be significant
 616 2012-05-22 17:02:59 <gmaxwell> nicholas74: they know one address. but they don't know about others— thats why everyone should always use new addresses for every transaction.  They also can't always tell which of multiple outputs was change.
 617 2012-05-22 17:03:26 kish has joined
 618 2012-05-22 17:04:02 <gavinandresen> sipa: I'll benchmark moving the cache to CheckSig after lunch, that's an easy change
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 621 2012-05-22 17:04:41 <sipa> gavinandresen: i did benchmark your cache by the way, it slowed initial syncup down slightly (maybe statistical variance), but after that, around 40% of incoming signature checks resulted in cache hits
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 623 2012-05-22 17:05:35 <gavinandresen> sipa: nice, thanks.
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 629 2012-05-22 17:12:16 <luke-jr> any ideas for how I might test #1240 more? :p
 630 2012-05-22 17:12:54 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: write unit tests that form a memory pool with varrious corner cases and check that the resulting blocks are valid.
 631 2012-05-22 17:13:08 <gmaxwell> (E.g. memory pools with transactions that would push blocks over the protocol imposed limits)
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 638 2012-05-22 17:20:31 <luke-jr> http://pastebin.com/qSLwN7eR <-- any test case I'm missing?
 639 2012-05-22 17:20:46 <luke-jr> or any that shouldn't be possible?
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 641 2012-05-22 17:23:47 <gmaxwell> In particular on your > limit test you should be testing at lest the limit exactly and one over at least if possible. Sigops limit should also test the case where the last txn is a multisig txn.
 642 2012-05-22 17:24:19 <gmaxwell> its up to your taste testing the 'impossible' cases like duplicates in the mempool. More tests are generally better.
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 644 2012-05-22 17:24:43 <gmaxwell> (even if the impossible case really is impossible those tests might find some other bug someday)
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 651 2012-05-22 17:31:00 <guruvan> is there a correct way to use more than one wallet with a single copy of the rest of the datadir?    (so I don't need multiple blockchain copies)
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 659 2012-05-22 17:36:36 <jgarzik> guruvan: shut down, swap wallets, restart with -rescan
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 664 2012-05-22 17:43:02 <guruvan> hmm. thanks. I will try this (exactly) again...though...I thought that's what I'd done several times. - I started as I got database errors on upgrade to 0.6.2, backed up, wiped the datadir, got fresh blocchain, and swapped wallets.  still dbase errors, swap back (to the fresh made, unused wallet) and still errors.  - I will try again.
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 671 2012-05-22 17:46:08 <denisx> is it intentional that the synchronizing progressbar has the whole range of all blocks und not only the range from what I have to the actual block?
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 676 2012-05-22 17:51:51 <gavinandresen> denisx: yes, that is intentional.
 677 2012-05-22 17:52:20 <gavinandresen> denisx: ... and you'll make wumpus grumpy if you start arguing it should be some other way
 678 2012-05-22 17:52:38 <denisx> but someone only loading blocks for seven missing days can't see a progress because it is too small
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 681 2012-05-22 17:55:51 <denisx> is wumpus the only one who wants it that way?
 682 2012-05-22 17:56:30 <gavinandresen> denisx: it was discussed to death, and consensus is that's the best way to do it.  You'll make us all grumpy if you want to discuss it to death some more
 683 2012-05-22 17:56:37 <jgarzik> hehehe
 684 2012-05-22 17:57:35 <denisx> another case of programmers designing a UI the wrong way...
 685 2012-05-22 17:57:37 <denisx> ;(
 686 2012-05-22 17:57:46 <denisx> I rest my case
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 689 2012-05-22 18:00:12 <jgarzik> I <heart> gitk
 690 2012-05-22 18:00:22 * jgarzik uses it to figure out what gavin merged
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 693 2012-05-22 18:07:33 <gavinandresen> sipa: when you're back: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1380  moving the cache is a very good idea
 694 2012-05-22 18:07:36 <wumpus> no matter what way it is, it's always exactly the wrong way to some people, and of course that's the most important issue in the world
 695 2012-05-22 18:08:28 <phantomcircuit> im sweating so much that there are drops of sweat on my desk
 696 2012-05-22 18:08:33 <phantomcircuit> it's not even hot
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 699 2012-05-22 18:10:13 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: can you encapsulate when you move?  it would take two seconds
 700 2012-05-22 18:10:29 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: both before and after #1240, bitcoind refuses to go all the way up to the limit…
 701 2012-05-22 18:10:50 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: fine
 702 2012-05-22 18:10:52 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gavinandresen opened pull request 1380 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1380>
 703 2012-05-22 18:11:48 <luke-jr> denisx: it was the other way for a few versions, and we got a ton of complaints "Bitcoin-Qt starts over when I restart during download!"
 704 2012-05-22 18:12:08 <wumpus> I wonder what 'the right way' of designing an UI would be, instantly chainging everything people request, then waiting for the next load of people to complain, then flipping it again, and all over again
 705 2012-05-22 18:12:21 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: you introduced a new warning,
 706 2012-05-22 18:12:23 <jgarzik> key.cpp: In function ‘void SetValidSigCache(uint256, const std::vector<unsigned char>&, const std::vector<unsigned char>&)’:
 707 2012-05-22 18:12:23 <jgarzik> key.cpp:388:38: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned integer expressions [-Wsign-compare]
 708 2012-05-22 18:12:40 * luke-jr notes both of the irreconcilable disputes seem to be about the sync progressbar, and suggests we just get rid of the progressbar entirely and just show a remaining-block count by itself <.<
 709 2012-05-22 18:13:05 <wumpus> sigh...
 710 2012-05-22 18:13:36 <wumpus> yeah, let's solve an unsolvable dispute... by doing it yet another way!
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 712 2012-05-22 18:13:43 <diki> jgarzik:well all make mistakes.
 713 2012-05-22 18:13:59 <wumpus> or simply lobbing a nuke at it
 714 2012-05-22 18:14:03 <denisx> luke-jr: that point I understand
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 716 2012-05-22 18:14:40 <luke-jr> wumpus: well, if there's no progress bar, there's no argument over how it looks/values
 717 2012-05-22 18:14:53 <wumpus> true, true
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 720 2012-05-22 18:20:01 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: encapsulated and fixed the signed/unsigned warning and pushed.  That took 8 minutes, not 2....
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 722 2012-05-22 18:23:20 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: appreciated nonetheless ;)
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 728 2012-05-22 18:24:33 <gavinandresen> I've got a feeling I might regret using boost::tuple, though.
 729 2012-05-22 18:26:00 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: should CreateNewBlock tests be in miner_tests, or is that just for the builtin CPU miner?
 730 2012-05-22 18:26:38 <gavinandresen> miner_tests seems like a good place
 731 2012-05-22 18:26:41 <luke-jr> k
 732 2012-05-22 18:28:35 <jgarzik> hum
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 734 2012-05-22 18:29:01 <jgarzik> I wonder what is C++'s equivalent of __FUNCTION__ / __func__
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 736 2012-05-22 18:30:13 <luke-jr> jgarzik: __func__ was introduced in C++11 IIRC
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 738 2012-05-22 18:31:04 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: jgarzik opened pull request 1381 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1381>
 739 2012-05-22 18:31:19 <jgarzik> ok, C++ wants __PRETTY_FUNCTION__ to return a string of both class name and method name
 740 2012-05-22 18:31:23 <jgarzik> __func__ just returns method name
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 749 2012-05-22 18:48:55 <jgarzik> received a small burst of 20 orphans
 750 2012-05-22 18:49:01 <jgarzik> received a small burst of 20 orphan tx's
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 753 2012-05-22 18:54:01 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: is there any existing way to handle use of CTxDB within test_bitcoin? :/
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 755 2012-05-22 18:55:21 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: I don't think so. support for unit testing in CDB is sorely needed
 756 2012-05-22 18:55:47 * luke-jr doesn't really feel comfortable with touching CDB :/
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 763 2012-05-22 19:02:12 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: your commit 77b99cf7 caused a doubling of orphan messages:
 764 2012-05-22 19:02:26 <jgarzik> 05/22/12 18:59:17 storing orphan tx cf5fb7678f (mapsz 40)
 765 2012-05-22 19:02:26 <jgarzik> 05/22/12 18:59:17 stored orphan tx cf5fb7678f (mapsz 40)
 766 2012-05-22 19:02:59 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: oops
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 768 2012-05-22 19:04:01 <jgarzik> "git blame src/main.cpp" to the rescue ;-)
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 770 2012-05-22 19:05:27 <gavinandresen> gotta pick up kids... back later.  Removing the stored orphan tx version of the message looks like the right thing to do
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 772 2012-05-22 19:06:41 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: I would remove the other one, "storing"
 773 2012-05-22 19:06:58 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: resulting in AddOrphanTx always printing something useful, regardless of circumstance
 774 2012-05-22 19:07:18 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: ok
 775 2012-05-22 19:07:34 <gavinandresen> (need a solution for overly verbose unit tests, though....)
 776 2012-05-22 19:07:53 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: I'll take care of this nit, since you're headed out the door
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 791 2012-05-22 19:29:50 <jgarzik> luke-jr: I'd say we want to backport #1381
 792 2012-05-22 19:30:03 <jgarzik> well "we" meaning "you" ;-)
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 795 2012-05-22 19:31:36 <luke-jr> jgarzik: I'll note that for when it gets merged
 796 2012-05-22 19:34:45 <jgarzik> darn you, valid tx's
 797 2012-05-22 19:34:54 <jgarzik> where is that crazy person sending orphans, when you need one?
 798 2012-05-22 19:35:12 * sipa sends jgarzik to an orphanage
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 810 2012-05-22 19:51:50 <luke-jr> http://codepad.org/O9fKH3cq <-- does this look reasonable, to emulate the entire db environment in memory?
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 818 2012-05-22 19:59:05 <jgarzik> luke-jr: you probably want to base on top of CDBEnv
 819 2012-05-22 19:59:07 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: "fMockDb" might be better than fDummyDb. I can't comment on making BDB store everything in memory, never done that (but seems to me to be the right approach)
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 822 2012-05-22 20:02:12 <jgarzik> gavinandresen sipa gmaxwell: trolling for ACKs on #1293 ...  if it makes ACK'ing easier, I can postpone these two, which require additional brain cells & review time: "remove spurious TxnAbort()" and "remove nested transactions"
 823 2012-05-22 20:02:18 <luke-jr> jgarzik: there is no such thing? O.o
 824 2012-05-22 20:02:25 <jgarzik> absent those, it should be a straight encapsulation
 825 2012-05-22 20:02:38 <jgarzik> luke-jr: see #1293
 826 2012-05-22 20:06:47 <luke-jr> jgarzik: that does sound like it'd simplify things
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 848 2012-05-22 20:50:55 <sipa> jgarzik: all commits in #1293 look good to me
 849 2012-05-22 20:51:08 <sipa> i'll do some tests
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 853 2012-05-22 21:04:34 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: rebroad opened pull request 1382 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1382>
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 897 2012-05-22 21:55:00 <phoenixisland> after upgrading to bitcoin 6.2 my computer crashes near the end of the sychronization process. can anyone help?
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 900 2012-05-22 21:56:24 <jgarzik> phoenixisland: your entire computer crashes?
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 902 2012-05-22 21:58:15 <phoenixisland> yes, says boot disc error, install boot disc and hit enter
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 905 2012-05-22 21:59:38 <jgarzik> phoenixisland: it sounds like you have a virus unrelated to bitcoin, or hardware problems
 906 2012-05-22 22:00:02 <phoenixisland> it only crashes when i run bitcoin since upgrading
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 914 2012-05-22 22:02:54 <jgarzik> phoenixisland: recommend doing something like this, to check your hard drive for hardware problems: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/check-your-hard-disk-for-errors
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 916 2012-05-22 22:03:14 <jgarzik> phoenixisland: also boot fresh, and update a virus scan
 917 2012-05-22 22:03:23 <jgarzik> er, update & run virus scan
 918 2012-05-22 22:03:39 <phoenixisland> when i restart bitcoin after restarting computer then bitcoin can' find the blkindex.dat at which point i delete everything in appdata folder/bitcoin except wallet.dat and it starts
 919 2012-05-22 22:03:49 <jgarzik> phoenixisland: did you download bitcoin from SourceForge.net directly, or some other site?
 920 2012-05-22 22:03:57 <phoenixisland> directly
 921 2012-05-22 22:04:30 <phoenixisland> ok, will try the hardisc check
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 927 2012-05-22 22:19:05 <agath> Hello! I am lurking since several months. I was wondering one thing, I don't know if this is the correct channel...
 928 2012-05-22 22:19:18 <agath> wouldn't it be useful to allow "payment request" transactions?
 929 2012-05-22 22:19:51 <sipa> agath: very useful
 930 2012-05-22 22:20:06 <agath> if I want to sell a service, and I expect a payment from a customer, let's say 1.8373842 BTC, it's impractical for the user to send the exact amount with the current functionality...
 931 2012-05-22 22:20:19 <sipa> but there's no need to have them be like bitcoin transaction
 932 2012-05-22 22:20:47 <agath> I think it would be better to allow the customer to send their bitcoin address where they want the payment request, and when the client receives it, it asks the authorization for sending the exact amount.
 933 2012-05-22 22:20:52 <sipa> instead, they could be encoded in a URL, or in a payment-request file, or negotiated through some third-party protocol
 934 2012-05-22 22:21:09 <sipa> a bitcoin address is not a transport endpoint
 935 2012-05-22 22:21:14 <sipa> you cannot send something to it
 936 2012-05-22 22:21:18 <agath> yes it could be, but it would allow for malicious URLs if not handled correctly..
 937 2012-05-22 22:21:25 <gmaxwell> Then handle it correctly.
 938 2012-05-22 22:21:42 <gmaxwell> (moreover, anything not a URL would have even more malicious potential)
 939 2012-05-22 22:22:20 <gmaxwell> E.g. I could watch for payment requests and send redundant ones and people would pay the wrong one.
 940 2012-05-22 22:22:37 <agath> hmm yes, true..
 941 2012-05-22 22:24:41 <luke-jr> "it's impractical for the user to send the exact amount with the current functionality…" <-- why?
 942 2012-05-22 22:25:28 <agath> because what would it happen if the customer inserts the wrong amount? you should manage a "balance" and send back the exceeding credit or generating another request for the missing amount...
 943 2012-05-22 22:25:40 <agath> if you feed him the correct amount, it's less prone to errors
 944 2012-05-22 22:25:53 <luke-jr> OK, so use a URI
 945 2012-05-22 22:25:55 <sipa> you can put the amount in a bitcoin: URI
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 947 2012-05-22 22:32:05 <agath> ok that could solve the problem!
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 951 2012-05-22 22:40:11 <BlueMatt> speaking of URIs, whats up with win32 uris on master?
 952 2012-05-22 22:40:25 <sipa> no idea, not been following that mess for a while
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 954 2012-05-22 22:40:48 * BlueMatt has a feeling no one has...
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 964 2012-05-22 22:54:06 <sipa> RedEmerald: now i realize there's a section in the fallback node list on the wiki that explains how to connect to onion addresses via tor address mapping
 965 2012-05-22 22:54:25 <RedEmerald> sipa: yup yup. i wrote some of it
 966 2012-05-22 22:54:58 <sipa> RedEmerald: anyway, i'm working on built-in tor hidden support in bitcoin, so you can say -connect=<onionaddr>, and have the client also exchange these addresses via peer exchange
 967 2012-05-22 22:55:10 <RedEmerald> yeah. I'm running next-test with it
 968 2012-05-22 22:55:20 <sipa> ok, nice :)
 969 2012-05-22 22:55:29 <gmaxwell> RedEmerald: do you have any feedback or bugreports?
 970 2012-05-22 22:55:48 <RedEmerald> i'm going to test sending/receiving transactions from it after work
 971 2012-05-22 22:55:53 <RedEmerald> but its been working fine
 972 2012-05-22 22:56:16 <RedEmerald> 24 connections right now
 973 2012-05-22 22:56:20 <RedEmerald> I'm running with -discover, too
 974 2012-05-22 22:56:29 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: make any progress on the testnet reboot?  We've got a bunch of stuff that could use some testnet testing love.
 975 2012-05-22 22:57:09 <RedEmerald> p2hwc26zdsrqxiix.onion btw
 976 2012-05-22 22:57:13 <RedEmerald> if you need one for testing
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 982 2012-05-22 23:10:42 <luke-jr> jgarzik: #1381 backport complete fwiw
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 985 2012-05-22 23:18:51 <luke-jr> 8.8% listening nodes secure against CVE-2012-2459
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 987 2012-05-22 23:22:57 <dinox> gavinandresen: ping
 988 2012-05-22 23:26:05 <RedEmerald> sipa: have you done any testing with transparent for proxies? i usually use torbox, but that means i won't be setting -proxy
 989 2012-05-22 23:26:31 <sipa> how does torbox work?
 990 2012-05-22 23:27:13 <sipa> just intercept outgoing ip connections, and route them over tor?
 991 2012-05-22 23:27:30 <RedEmerald> you have a gateway that runs Tor, and a workstation that uses that Tor
 992 2012-05-22 23:27:51 <RedEmerald> that way if a program on the workstation is exploited or leaks it's IP, it doesn't get the real external IP
 993 2012-05-22 23:28:13 <RedEmerald> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/TorBOX
 994 2012-05-22 23:28:55 <gmaxwell> RedEmerald: it's really much better to use proxy with bitcoin. We'll never be able to connect to onion hosts via a transparent proxy.
 995 2012-05-22 23:29:09 <RedEmerald> thats what i figured
 996 2012-05-22 23:31:04 <sipa> since torbox seems to intercept dns resolving as well, i wonder if it could in fact connect to hidden services
 997 2012-05-22 23:31:10 <sipa> no idea how it would work, though
 998 2012-05-22 23:31:22 <RedEmerald> i'll test and get back to you :)
 999 2012-05-22 23:31:48 <sipa> i put my permanent node's onion address on the hidden service page, by the way
1000 2012-05-22 23:31:55 <luke-jr> sipa: AAAA?
1001 2012-05-22 23:32:22 <sipa> luke-jr: onioncat you mean?
1002 2012-05-22 23:32:35 <sipa> could be
1003 2012-05-22 23:32:40 <luke-jr> sipa: yes, TorBOX can/should resolve onion addresses to AAAA records
1004 2012-05-22 23:32:43 <luke-jr> and route those
1005 2012-05-22 23:38:14 <bonks> is there a simple way to retrieve bitcoind's getinfo result from python?
1006 2012-05-22 23:39:13 <sipa> bonks: use any JSON-RPC module
1007 2012-05-22 23:39:22 <sipa> i'm sure there are many
1008 2012-05-22 23:40:15 <bonks> ok, im a python noob
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1010 2012-05-22 23:42:15 <Diablo-D3> hey bonks
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1012 2012-05-22 23:42:29 <bonks> hi
1013 2012-05-22 23:44:31 <luke-jr> sipa: only one reasonable, actually: jgarzik's bitcoinrpc
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1015 2012-05-22 23:51:22 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: have you tried splitting txindex into eg txindex[0-F].dat by first bits of tx (or does bdb have an option to do that for you), seems like that could give a bit of a perf bump over just a btree?
1016 2012-05-22 23:52:43 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: with the bits in a hash effectively random, I don't see how that would help performance.  I'm probably missing something?  Have not tested that configuration, no.
1017 2012-05-22 23:53:03 <jgarzik> hashes don't have locality of keys
1018 2012-05-22 23:53:03 <bonks> luke-jr: how do I install jgarzik's bitcoinrpc? no instructions
1019 2012-05-22 23:54:48 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: effectively converting the first split in the btree to a 16-tree would cut down on overall btree size quite a bit, when we are searching that tree so rapidly, it could have an effect
1020 2012-05-22 23:54:51 <BlueMatt> is my though
1021 2012-05-22 23:54:52 <BlueMatt> t
1022 2012-05-22 23:55:32 <BlueMatt> s/rapidly/constantly/
1023 2012-05-22 23:56:25 <RedEmerald> bah. all the packages are downloading over Tor. going to be a few minutes before i can test bitcoind with torbox