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  2 2012-05-23 00:01:14 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: how many leaves does BDB pack into a page right now?
  3 2012-05-23 00:02:31 <jgarzik> the first few levels of btree are always in cache anyways
  4 2012-05-23 00:03:06 <jgarzik> sigh...  would love kyotocabinet's transactional-hash-table-on-disk
  5 2012-05-23 00:03:08 <sipa> BlueMatt: so you're basically changing one level of in-file branching to one level of filesystem branching
  6 2012-05-23 00:03:13 <BlueMatt> for most of us, the whole thing is in cache...
  7 2012-05-23 00:03:21 <jgarzik> sipa: yep
  8 2012-05-23 00:03:31 <sipa> i doubt that would help
  9 2012-05-23 00:03:32 <BlueMatt> yea
 10 2012-05-23 00:03:33 <luke-jr> bonks: I do: emerge bitcoinrpc
 11 2012-05-23 00:03:44 <sipa> jgarzik: by all means, try it ;)
 12 2012-05-23 00:03:57 <BlueMatt> sipa: probably not, I just wondered if it had been tried
 13 2012-05-23 00:04:07 <jgarzik> sipa: a little bit more abstraction and I'm there :)
 14 2012-05-23 00:04:20 <BlueMatt> but then there have been more surprising results that have big performance impacts
 15 2012-05-23 00:04:27 <jgarzik> sipa: all this database-management code is scattered around main.cpp and wallet*.cpp
 16 2012-05-23 00:04:30 <jgarzik> CloseDb etc.
 17 2012-05-23 00:04:37 <sipa> i know
 18 2012-05-23 00:05:07 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: you're welcome to test it... should be easy with my #blockindex branch
 19 2012-05-23 00:05:16 <sipa> but if that kyotocabinet system only uses a single file, there's no need for a cdbenv
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 21 2012-05-23 00:05:35 <sipa> you could just create a cdb substitute that uses kyoto
 22 2012-05-23 00:05:47 <jgarzik> sipa: single file per table IIUC, so a bit more limited than BDB
 23 2012-05-23 00:06:14 <jgarzik> sipa: yeah, since we only use one database per file, CDB replacement is feasible
 24 2012-05-23 00:06:20 <sipa> good enough, we've been using a single table for everything anyway
 25 2012-05-23 00:06:24 <jgarzik> yep
 26 2012-05-23 00:06:26 <sipa> *ducks*
 27 2012-05-23 00:06:28 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: yea, I might sometime, I just wondered if you had, and hoped it would take you 10 lines to code + start off a benchmark instead of me trying to read up on #blockindex
 28 2012-05-23 00:06:47 <jgarzik> sipa: s/table/file/ ITYM
 29 2012-05-23 00:07:12 <jgarzik> both #master and #blockindex use a single table per file
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 32 2012-05-23 00:07:49 <jgarzik> which works with KC
 33 2012-05-23 00:10:30 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: the main technical hurdle with that idea remains the same with either #master or #blockindex really:  CDB assumes a single filename, and your scheme would need to change that.
 34 2012-05-23 00:10:57 <jgarzik> code past that hurdle, and I could easily test with #blockindex from a patch based on #master
 35 2012-05-23 00:11:14 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ah, I thought #blockindex had abstracted further already, nvm
 36 2012-05-23 00:11:48 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: #blockindex does CTxDB -> { CTxDB, CBlockIdxDB, CMetaDB }, nothing more
 37 2012-05-23 00:11:56 <BlueMatt> oh, ok
 38 2012-05-23 00:12:25 <jgarzik> #blockindex relies heavily on CDB, and only changes one minor CDB detail (setting DB_HASH rather than DB_BTREE)
 39 2012-05-23 00:12:48 <BlueMatt> did DB_HASH have much of a perf impact?
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 41 2012-05-23 00:13:09 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: right now we smash together different datasets into a single huge key/value index, much like a filesystem.
 42 2012-05-23 00:13:17 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: yeah, it got slower and bigger ;p
 43 2012-05-23 00:13:21 <BlueMatt> oh...
 44 2012-05-23 00:13:45 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: but it is untuned.  bdb really wants you to tune the hash fill factor (how heavily you will hash table leaf pages)
 45 2012-05-23 00:13:59 <jgarzik> *how heavily you will pack
 46 2012-05-23 00:14:08 <jgarzik> anyway, baby bedtime
 47 2012-05-23 00:14:28 <sipa> i suspect node startup time to be a lot faster with blockindex
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 49 2012-05-23 00:14:56 <sipa> as only blkhash.dat is necessary at startup, and is small
 50 2012-05-23 00:14:58 <BlueMatt> yea, I wondered, seems like O(1) theoretical should give us a bump, but if its not tuned right, hash tables suck
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 52 2012-05-23 00:15:55 <sipa> btree's disadvantage is higher index lookup frequency
 53 2012-05-23 00:16:19 <sipa> but if the entire index fits in memory, that doesn't matter
 54 2012-05-23 00:16:49 <BlueMatt> how is the in-memory cache for DB_HASH done?
 55 2012-05-23 00:16:57 <BlueMatt> or does it just cache part of the hash table?
 56 2012-05-23 00:16:58 <sipa> hmm?
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 58 2012-05-23 00:17:09 <sipa> i suppose
 59 2012-05-23 00:17:30 <BlueMatt> or, I guess my question is, is the in-memory cache the same between btree and hash?
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 61 2012-05-23 00:22:16 <RedEmerald> woohoo
 62 2012-05-23 00:22:33 <RedEmerald> bitcoind -connect=p2hwc26zdsrqxiix.onion -proxy=192.168.0.1:9100
 63 2012-05-23 00:22:38 <RedEmerald> downloading blocks now :)
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 71 2012-05-23 00:45:10 <jgarzik> back
 72 2012-05-23 00:45:28 <jgarzik> sipa: we touch txindex during verification, I thought
 73 2012-05-23 00:45:38 <jgarzik> sipa: in addition to LoadBlockIndex at startup
 74 2012-05-23 00:46:59 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: check out the two pastebin links at the end of https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1303
 75 2012-05-23 00:47:12 <luke-jr> jgarzik: you merged without fixing the bug breaking Bitcoin-Qt? -.-
 76 2012-05-23 00:47:13 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ahhh
 77 2012-05-23 00:47:15 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: that shows db_stat output for #blockindex (DB_HASH) and #master
 78 2012-05-23 00:47:31 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: including tree/etc. details
 79 2012-05-23 00:48:15 <jgarzik> luke-jr: please be more specific
 80 2012-05-23 00:48:25 <jgarzik> luke-jr: I break all kinds of shit all the time!
 81 2012-05-23 00:48:37 <luke-jr> jgarzik: fDetachDb not defined etc
 82 2012-05-23 00:48:47 <jgarzik> hrm
 83 2012-05-23 00:48:48 <luke-jr> jgarzik: I recall it being fixed, but apparently didn't make the merge
 84 2012-05-23 00:49:18 <jgarzik> luke-jr: ah, the fix got trapped inside #blockindex
 85 2012-05-23 00:51:03 <luke-jr> aha
 86 2012-05-23 00:51:14 * luke-jr mines 100 mainnet blocks to build his tests <.<
 87 2012-05-23 00:55:36 <luke-jr>      "blocks" : 44,
 88 2012-05-23 00:55:36 <diki> le app > 250mb memory allocated
 89 2012-05-23 00:55:42 <diki> my app that is...
 90 2012-05-23 00:58:59 <sipa> jgarzik: hmm
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 95 2012-05-23 01:12:36 <jgarzik> looks like kyotocabinet does not do cross-file transactions, IIUC
 96 2012-05-23 01:12:56 <jgarzik> could still try it with blkindex.dat
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 99 2012-05-23 01:15:22 <jgarzik> anyway, I'll finish looking at #blockindex before kyotocabinet...  those CTxIndex entries are all tiny, so I do not understand why the index is so huge, or why there is so many overflow pages, or why there is so much free space shown in db_stat
100 2012-05-23 01:15:43 <jgarzik> there is clearly one or more jgarzik problems in there, that we should not blame on BDB
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105 2012-05-23 01:27:49 <jgarzik> that's odd
106 2012-05-23 01:27:53 <jgarzik>         memset(datKey.get_data(), 0, datKey.get_size());
107 2012-05-23 01:27:53 <jgarzik>         if (datValue.get_data() == NULL)
108 2012-05-23 01:28:08 <jgarzik> checking for NULL after a potential memory reference via memset(3)
109 2012-05-23 01:28:29 <jgarzik> one hopes datKey.get_size() always returns zero for that case, I suppose
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111 2012-05-23 01:29:38 <luke-jr> jgarzik: dayKey != datValue ?
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113 2012-05-23 01:30:35 <jgarzik> luke-jr: yeah, duh :)
114 2012-05-23 01:30:40 * jgarzik needs Pepsi
115 2012-05-23 01:30:55 <jgarzik> in any case, we look at datFoo before checking 'ret
116 2012-05-23 01:31:00 <jgarzik> 'ret'
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149 2012-05-23 02:52:46 <bonks> luke-jr: i have no idea what emerge bitcoinrpc means, , could you walk me through what i need to do so i can call something in python and assign any bitcoind result to a variable?
150 2012-05-23 02:53:10 <luke-jr> bonks: emerge is how you install anything on Gentoo
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152 2012-05-23 02:53:26 <bonks> oh im on debian
153 2012-05-23 02:53:36 <bonks> that explains why all my results said gentoo :X
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161 2012-05-23 03:03:43 <bonks> luke-jr: so what do I do with these files? https://github.com/jgarzik/python-bitcoinrpc/tree/master/jsonrpc
162 2012-05-23 03:03:53 <luke-jr> nfc
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164 2012-05-23 03:09:38 <bonks> you worked on them :P
165 2012-05-23 03:10:47 <luke-jr> I use Gentoo to install them.
166 2012-05-23 03:10:58 <luke-jr> oh, and they work in the same directory as the project
167 2012-05-23 03:11:01 <luke-jr> I think
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170 2012-05-23 03:13:50 <luke-jr> well, got a test that loads 100 blocks :p
171 2012-05-23 03:14:08 <luke-jr> from an array of 100 {4, 0xa4a3e223}-like items
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199 2012-05-23 04:44:21 <bonks> luke-jr: i got the rpc stuff to work with jgarzik's code, it's nice and easy. thx
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218 2012-05-23 06:02:06 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: unit tests for CreateNewBlock done; no changes required for #1240 to pass ;)
219 2012-05-23 06:02:15 <luke-jr> (the tests are part of #1246 though)
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222 2012-05-23 06:04:58 <gmaxwell> Awesome.
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286 2012-05-23 10:21:42 <diki> the qt gui is very nice, but there is just this empty space in the lower left corner
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303 2012-05-23 11:29:53 <graingert> could bitcoin be written such that if Public Key A * Public Key B  = Public Key C . A and B could both spend a transaction that was previously out to C if they both sign it ?
304 2012-05-23 11:30:24 <sipa> what is '*' ?
305 2012-05-23 11:30:29 <graingert> times
306 2012-05-23 11:30:39 <sipa> you can't multiply ec points
307 2012-05-23 11:30:44 <graingert> I thought you could
308 2012-05-23 11:30:53 <graingert> I thought that was the cool thing about ECDSA
309 2012-05-23 11:30:54 <sipa> you can multiply intergers with ec points
310 2012-05-23 11:30:59 <sipa> integers
311 2012-05-23 11:31:04 <sipa> and you can add points
312 2012-05-23 11:31:10 <graingert> oh in that case
313 2012-05-23 11:31:10 <sipa> but not multiply them :)
314 2012-05-23 11:31:17 <graingert> could bitcoin be written such that if Public Key A + Public Key B  = Public Key C . A and B could both spend a transaction that was previously out to C if they both sign it ?
315 2012-05-23 11:32:19 <sipa> from a signature sign(msg,A) and sign(msg,B), you can't create a valid signature sign(msg,A+B), afaik
316 2012-05-23 11:32:32 <sipa> but there may be some more complex mechanism that does allow such a thing
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318 2012-05-23 11:32:44 <sipa> i think justmoon was working on something like that a few months ago
319 2012-05-23 11:33:25 <graingert> no that's true sipa
320 2012-05-23 11:33:53 <graingert> but could the bitcoin rules treak sign(msg,A) concat sign(msg,B) as sign(msg,A+B)
321 2012-05-23 11:33:59 <graingert> treat*
322 2012-05-23 11:34:11 <graingert> but only with ECDSA tx
323 2012-05-23 11:34:14 <sipa> you know bitcoin scripts just support checking multiple signarures, no?
324 2012-05-23 11:34:32 <graingert> true
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345 2012-05-23 12:39:46 <olp> Is bitcoind importprivkey supposed to work with privkeys derived from the new compressed format?
346 2012-05-23 12:39:52 <sipa> yes
347 2012-05-23 12:40:12 <olp> ok..Ill have to look at my code more closely then
348 2012-05-23 12:42:29 <olp> But I even tested a privkey that jackjack's pywallet gave, and when I imported it gave a different address
349 2012-05-23 12:43:11 <sipa> which version of bitcoind?
350 2012-05-23 12:44:51 <Joric> does jackjack even supports compressed keys?
351 2012-05-23 12:44:56 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
352 2012-05-23 12:45:04 <olp> I took it from the 0.6.2 tag on github
353 2012-05-23 12:45:17 <olp> but ok I guess his doesn't support that
354 2012-05-23 12:45:32 <Joric> jackjack forked my pywallet at 1.1
355 2012-05-23 12:45:52 <Joric> while i'm adding new features he's just adding more dependencies
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357 2012-05-23 12:46:17 <Joric> always use the original software!! :)
358 2012-05-23 12:46:17 <olp> Ill look at your version's code then :)
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365 2012-05-23 12:54:26 <olp> yours is giving a privkey that starts with a "K"
366 2012-05-23 12:54:54 <olp> but importprivkey gives error code -4
367 2012-05-23 12:56:19 <Joric> yes compressed key starts from K
368 2012-05-23 12:56:34 <Joric> not sure why importprivkey doesnt work
369 2012-05-23 12:57:48 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
370 2012-05-23 12:58:23 <Joric> try exporting from 0.6.2 it will show keys starting from K or something
371 2012-05-23 12:59:25 agricocb has joined
372 2012-05-23 12:59:29 <Joric> you may check those keys at http://brainwallet.org
373 2012-05-23 12:59:48 <sipa> olp: importprivkey will fail if you already have the key
374 2012-05-23 13:00:01 <olp> ya my bad
375 2012-05-23 13:00:11 <olp> I used the wallet that already had the key
376 2012-05-23 13:00:33 <olp> with another wallet it looks good
377 2012-05-23 13:01:15 * Joric 's proud
378 2012-05-23 13:05:25 <drizztbsd> inroduced :P
379 2012-05-23 13:05:30 <drizztbsd> typo!
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442 2012-05-23 15:21:16 <jgarzik> sipa BlueMatt: I'm off to Europe (Croatia & France) on Friday, through June 8, to visit family.  No chance I'll get to any new projects, so go ahead and merge CBlockStore or whatever
443 2012-05-23 15:21:53 <jgarzik> I'll code on top of that,  I suppose
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462 2012-05-23 16:05:38 <helo> Joric: does your pywallet dump/insert transactions?
463 2012-05-23 16:10:01 Zarutian has joined
464 2012-05-23 16:11:10 <jgarzik> sipa gmaxwell gavinandresen: splitting blkindex.dat into {blkmeta,blkhash,txhash}.dat resulted in an overall space savings, if storage remains DB_BTREE
465 2012-05-23 16:11:23 <jgarzik> makes sense, as each database automatically tunes itself to a specific workload
466 2012-05-23 16:11:36 <jgarzik> plus smaller keys for *hash.dat
467 2012-05-23 16:12:16 <gavinandresen> ok.  How much savings?  Is it worth the incompatibility hassle?
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470 2012-05-23 16:17:14 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: there is no rush on cblockstore, is it even being considered for 0.7 at this point?
471 2012-05-23 16:18:33 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: 10% space savings on disk, plus some minor amount of CPU usage savings
472 2012-05-23 16:18:39 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: open question, on the latter...
473 2012-05-23 16:19:15 <gavinandresen> mmm... I actually wrote and erased "10% would be borderline for worth it..."
474 2012-05-23 16:19:23 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: current #blockindex branch works with upgrades -and- downgrades, FWIW
475 2012-05-23 16:19:31 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: just have to suffer a long upgrade
476 2012-05-23 16:21:27 davout has joined
477 2012-05-23 16:21:42 <k9quaint> So glad I didn't buy facebook shares. The End.
478 2012-05-23 16:21:56 <k9quaint> but I am sad I posted that in the wrong window
479 2012-05-23 16:22:03 <k9quaint> (the sequel)
480 2012-05-23 16:23:50 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: loadblockindex is likely faster, but I haven't measured that yet.  tx lookups should be a tiny bit faster too.
481 2012-05-23 16:24:05 <jgarzik> fewer btree (or hash, if DB_HASH is used) internal pages
482 2012-05-23 16:26:23 <Eliel_> are there any commented example programs using libbitcoin anywhere?
483 2012-05-23 16:26:45 <gavinandresen> I'm feeling overwhelmed by trivial and definitely non-trivial code changes, when I have a long list of high-priority TODOs that aren't getting done
484 2012-05-23 16:26:46 <Eliel_> the ones in the libbitcoin repo are very much not commented
485 2012-05-23 16:27:50 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: so put bitcoin on an intel-style tick-tock release schedule ;) (entirely joking)
486 2012-05-23 16:28:51 Diapolo has joined
487 2012-05-23 16:30:29 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: yeah but all that high priority stuff is boring ;p
488 2012-05-23 16:31:16 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: wanna share that TODO?
489 2012-05-23 16:31:33 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: sure:  priorities are still network stability and wallet security.
490 2012-05-23 16:31:49 <gavinandresen> So:  BIP 10 support, and multisig wallet support in general.
491 2012-05-23 16:32:16 <gavinandresen> Fast startup for newbies (fClientOnly mode)
492 2012-05-23 16:32:21 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: I wish merkle pruning was on your list
493 2012-05-23 16:32:28 <gavinandresen> Cross-platform testing
494 2012-05-23 16:32:57 <gavinandresen> ThomasV: will merkle pruning improve wallet security or improve network stability ?
495 2012-05-23 16:33:15 <ThomasV> sCalability
496 2012-05-23 16:33:34 <gavinandresen> I don't care about scalability until we have much better wallet security.
497 2012-05-23 16:33:40 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: well, I wrote 'I wish'
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499 2012-05-23 16:33:55 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: you mentioned memory-only db last night, did that patch actually work, or?
500 2012-05-23 16:34:19 Z0rZ0rZ0r has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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502 2012-05-23 16:35:02 <Diapolo> BlueMatt: I played around with in memory-logs to a few days ago, Sipa told me that would kill the chance for a recovery, which seems true.
503 2012-05-23 16:35:25 <BlueMatt> Diapolo: my interest is in-memory-only db which never touches disk that we can use for unit testing
504 2012-05-23 16:35:29 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: high priorities for the project in general are better testing/release practices, and figuring out whether we can continue to be a loosely organized group of interested people or if it would make sense to find funding and a business model to fund professional development
505 2012-05-23 16:36:07 <ThomasV> apply for funding at the federal reserve
506 2012-05-23 16:36:12 <BlueMatt> lul
507 2012-05-23 16:36:50 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: if you want great security value, make it possible to run without private keys...  RPC client says "watch these pubkeys" (with http callback) and submits fresh TXs
508 2012-05-23 16:37:10 <ThomasV> jgarzik: indeed :)
509 2012-05-23 16:37:11 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: then penetration of the bitcoin node does not equal loss of value, even if unencrypted
510 2012-05-23 16:37:28 <ThomasV> separate wallet and network
511 2012-05-23 16:37:36 <wumpus> read-only wallets
512 2012-05-23 16:37:39 <sipa> jgarzik: ok, have fun over here :)
513 2012-05-23 16:37:45 <wumpus> with multi-wallet support that should be easy
514 2012-05-23 16:37:50 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: _that_ is a realistic SPV mode.  that's all a merchant needs, if they are managing their own private keys
515 2012-05-23 16:38:10 talpan has joined
516 2012-05-23 16:38:15 <ThomasV> that's the idea behind libbitcoin, btw
517 2012-05-23 16:38:28 <sipa> when the whole IPv6/Tor support thing is done, i'll get back to append-only wallets and deterministic wallets
518 2012-05-23 16:38:33 <gavinandresen> I don't care how it is done, I just want it done.
519 2012-05-23 16:38:37 <wumpus> grat sipa :)
520 2012-05-23 16:38:40 <wumpus> +e
521 2012-05-23 16:38:42 <jgarzik> wumpus: no, not read-only wallets... you want to be able to update the wallet with new pubkeys, and want the wallet to notice new transactions associated with those pubkeys
522 2012-05-23 16:38:48 <BlueMatt> separate wallet and chain (at least) is one of the many, many goals of cblockstore in a few months
523 2012-05-23 16:38:48 <gavinandresen> Well, I do care, if the keys are on a device that hacker might get into then you lose.
524 2012-05-23 16:38:52 <jgarzik> pubkey-only wallets
525 2012-05-23 16:38:55 <jgarzik> read/write
526 2012-05-23 16:39:02 <wumpus> jgarzik: yes, that's what I mean 
527 2012-05-23 16:39:09 <sipa> jgarzik: yes, watch-only wallets
528 2012-05-23 16:39:10 <wumpus> jgarzik: read-only is just the colloqial term
529 2012-05-23 16:39:16 <wumpus> that's a better name sipa
530 2012-05-23 16:39:21 <jgarzik> agree
531 2012-05-23 16:39:23 <sipa> (term stolen from armory)
532 2012-05-23 16:39:28 <ThomasV> jgarzik: deterministic wallet without the master private key, ie seedless wallet
533 2012-05-23 16:39:43 <gavinandresen> blockchain.info already allows you to have a watch-only wallet, why would we duplicate that functionality?
534 2012-05-23 16:40:17 <sipa> anyway, gtg, be back in a couple of hours
535 2012-05-23 16:40:24 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: you do not want to replicate something because it's been done elsewhere?
536 2012-05-23 16:40:33 <wumpus> well wit ha website there's always some privacy aspect
537 2012-05-23 16:40:36 <jgarzik> bitcoind is P2P, blockchain.info is SPOF
538 2012-05-23 16:40:39 <jgarzik> indeed
539 2012-05-23 16:40:51 <gavinandresen> I would much rather concentrate on core functionality that is missing
540 2012-05-23 16:41:04 <gavinandresen> ... and let other people focus on building on top of the core
541 2012-05-23 16:41:20 <wumpus> well, yea, if you make it possible to do it on top of the current core that's fine too
542 2012-05-23 16:41:20 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: then focus on network issues; let others take care of wallet issues :)
543 2012-05-23 16:41:28 <jgarzik> separation of responsibilities definitely enhances security
544 2012-05-23 16:41:37 <ThomasV> lol
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546 2012-05-23 16:42:10 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: okey doke.  I still think it is all about key management.
547 2012-05-23 16:42:51 Z0rZ0rZ0r has joined
548 2012-05-23 16:43:00 <wumpus> I guess I could add a 'watch addresses' feature without much support in the core
549 2012-05-23 16:43:04 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: agree -- I'm saying it is useful that key management may be separated from bitcoind into a more tightly controlled external process
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551 2012-05-23 16:43:22 <wumpus> then again, it'd be nice to have, not a priority... I agree
552 2012-05-23 16:43:52 <wumpus> something for 1.0 :p
553 2012-05-23 16:44:12 <gavinandresen> In any case, RPC calls for creating/partially-signing/submitting transactions aught to be done ASAP
554 2012-05-23 16:44:59 <jgarzik> a big exchange or big merchant would IMO want to code their business rules alongside key management, use certain keys at a lower security level -- shared more widely around the enterprise, but used only as temporary keys before bitcoins are transferred to a more tightly controlled set of master keys
555 2012-05-23 16:45:02 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: if bitcoind could watch an address and return its history without having to rescan the entire blockchain, then it could be used as Electrum server
556 2012-05-23 16:45:20 <jgarzik> key (or seed) management is the thing most tightly bound to a specific site, specific business, specific set of business rules
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558 2012-05-23 16:45:53 <jgarzik> and as such, key management is also most likely to vary widely when it comes to solutions
559 2012-05-23 16:46:02 <wumpus> ThomasV: that would need an extensive index
560 2012-05-23 16:46:10 <ThomasV> wumpus: exactly
561 2012-05-23 16:46:28 <wumpus> which is quite the contrary of the current goal of saving memory/disk space 
562 2012-05-23 16:46:33 <ThomasV> kinlo mentioned that it would be possible
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564 2012-05-23 16:46:49 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: OK.  what functionality is missing from bitcoind that would let people build that stuff on top of it?  I can think of a few things...
565 2012-05-23 16:46:52 <jgarzik> thus, it seems logical that bitcoind would be used in an enterprise as (a) bastion nodes, (b) sending new TX's from merchant to network, and (c) noticing new TX's from network to merchant.
566 2012-05-23 16:47:20 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: (1) new RPC "submit tx"  (2) new RPC "bloom filter" a la TD, with http callback
567 2012-05-23 16:47:28 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: agreed
568 2012-05-23 16:47:50 <wumpus> right, you'd end up with a blockchain server
569 2012-05-23 16:47:54 <jgarzik> with those two RPCs, bitcoind would not need to store private keys
570 2012-05-23 16:47:58 <wumpus> you could move wallet functionality to another process
571 2012-05-23 16:47:59 <wumpus> right
572 2012-05-23 16:48:12 <gavinandresen> Not sure about using http, though; the -blocknotify=<command_to_run> might be a better way to do it
573 2012-05-23 16:48:19 <jgarzik> those two RPCs permit external key management, as flexible as you like
574 2012-05-23 16:48:26 <wumpus> yeah that's more general
575 2012-05-23 16:48:27 <gavinandresen> (<command_to_run> might trigger a http post somewhere)
576 2012-05-23 16:48:33 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: sure, that's fine
577 2012-05-23 16:48:56 <ThomasV> no, not as flexible as I like if I cannot request an arbitrary address
578 2012-05-23 16:49:04 <wumpus> http callbacks sets up the scene for insecure practices, I'm afraid
579 2012-05-23 16:49:37 <jgarzik> wumpus: http callbacks are standard throughout the cloud world
580 2012-05-23 16:49:50 <gavinandresen> I like the bloom filter approach, maybe combined with a "Don't notify me more than once every X seconds" (plan ahead for transaction volume ramp-up)
581 2012-05-23 16:50:04 <wumpus> jgarzik: but would the callbacks need to be authenticated?
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583 2012-05-23 16:50:10 <jgarzik> wumpus: paypal, ebay, pecunix, liberty reserve all use HTTP callbacks
584 2012-05-23 16:50:12 <jgarzik> amazon, google too
585 2012-05-23 16:50:20 <jgarzik> wumpus: yes of course.  usually there is a hash or other crypto auth.
586 2012-05-23 16:50:45 <jgarzik> authenticated http callbacks are standard in the payment world and the cloud world
587 2012-05-23 16:50:50 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: sure, but re-implementing all the infrastructure for client certificates/etc inside bitcoind is a pain.  I know, I did it for the https RPC, and kinda regret that now
588 2012-05-23 16:51:00 <Diapolo> cloud and secure are 2 words I wouldn't use together ^^ only a feeling
589 2012-05-23 16:51:01 <wumpus> well that paypal does something doesn't mean it's a good idea... I've encountered many sites that don't validate the callbacks good enough 
590 2012-05-23 16:51:11 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: you just said separation of concerns is good security....
591 2012-05-23 16:51:38 <jgarzik> wumpus: that's not paypal's fault, if you choose not to validate their crypto signatures
592 2012-05-23 16:52:01 <wumpus> sigh, yeah
593 2012-05-23 16:52:13 <jgarzik> all payment sites' http callbacks include strong crypto auth.  whether or not you use that is your own doom ;)
594 2012-05-23 16:53:19 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: running a command is fine too :)
595 2012-05-23 16:53:29 <jgarzik> just noting standard practices...
596 2012-05-23 16:54:06 <gavinandresen> I'm just trying to not reinvent wheels, and cut down on number of lines of code we need to secure.
597 2012-05-23 16:54:18 <jgarzik> moving forward, it seems like "submit-new-tx" RPC should be low hanging fruit.  I'll look at that.
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599 2012-05-23 16:54:54 * jgarzik wonders if TD[gone]` has done any bloom filter code yet
600 2012-05-23 16:55:03 <wumpus> the bloom filter idea is neat
601 2012-05-23 16:55:05 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I forgot the very highest thing on my TODO list:  testnet reset with built-in Script test cases
602 2012-05-23 16:55:17 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: cute idea
603 2012-05-23 16:55:59 <wumpus> Diapolo: I heard linode is very good for storing your wallet
604 2012-05-23 16:56:01 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: eu1.bitcoincharts.com blockchain download is full of orphan chains, and as such, is great test data.  including intentionally-created tests on the testnet chain would be useful.
605 2012-05-23 16:56:18 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: my cuter idea is a testnet node that you could -connect to that fed you edge-case-INVALID chains
606 2012-05-23 16:58:41 <Diapolo> wumpus: I dislike the concept of don't knowing where my data is and have to trust a third party company that they won't do bad things or loose my data. So I hate that buzzword cloud-computing.
607 2012-05-23 16:59:04 <jgarzik> I might actually be in TD's neck of the woods
608 2012-05-23 16:59:10 <jgarzik> one 3hr layover is in Zurich
609 2012-05-23 17:00:55 <olp> Is it possible to store the bitcoin on a smart card for more security? Like the openpgp cards?
610 2012-05-23 17:01:39 <jgarzik> olp: keys, yes, sure
611 2012-05-23 17:02:07 <olp> Just for making a transaction, you just use it to sign
612 2012-05-23 17:03:08 <wumpus> Diapolo: I also sincerely hope it's not the future, I like encrypted remote backups, but having all data only on a server instead of local worries me,  also I don't like if it's unencrypted and you have to believe in their promise not to peek
613 2012-05-23 17:05:53 <Diapolo> wumpus: for example drop-box claims to encrypt but grants administrations access and has an EULA, that in the end leaves everything "un-encrypted"
614 2012-05-23 17:06:44 <Diapolo> I read the the Amazons cloud was used to track heart-beats and blood preassure from patients and it crashed, how bad is it to rely on SUCH a thing
615 2012-05-23 17:08:58 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: I was gonna hack up CDB to run in-memory only (doesnt look too hard) and throw in a bunch of unit tests using that, but...whatever
616 2012-05-23 17:10:13 <BlueMatt> (mostly because unit-tests in one place instead of 10 is cleaner, but, in the end, it doesnt matter that much)
617 2012-05-23 17:11:15 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: more unit tests is an excellent idea I support 100%
618 2012-05-23 17:14:30 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I think luke-jr was working on doing just that?
619 2012-05-23 17:15:37 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
620 2012-05-23 17:18:05 <Matt_von_Mises> Have I got this right: This script: 0x04,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0x7F OP_1ADD 0x05,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x80,0x00 OP_EQUAL would leave true?
621 2012-05-23 17:20:58 denisx has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
622 2012-05-23 17:21:16 denisx has joined
623 2012-05-23 17:25:08 TD has joined
624 2012-05-23 17:29:13 <MrTiggr> OK
625 2012-05-23 17:29:23 <MrTiggr> not btc essentially
626 2012-05-23 17:29:25 <MrTiggr> but
627 2012-05-23 17:29:37 <MrTiggr> *cough* http://bbs.blackbap.org/thread-2419-1-1.html  ....  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21524022/MS12-020%E6%9C%80%E6%96%B0%E5%8F%AF%E7%94%A8POC.rar    ?? legit ??   -- hilite me
628 2012-05-23 17:29:47 <MrTiggr> helpaTiggrOut ?
629 2012-05-23 17:31:19 <Diapolo> I don't want to click, what is it ^^?
630 2012-05-23 17:31:49 <MrTiggr> proof of concept code
631 2012-05-23 17:31:54 <MrTiggr> py and rb
632 2012-05-23 17:31:57 <upb> for what
633 2012-05-23 17:32:00 <MrTiggr> do NOT click the exes
634 2012-05-23 17:32:03 BTC_Bear has joined
635 2012-05-23 17:32:13 <MrTiggr> its PoC for RDP exploit
636 2012-05-23 17:32:30 <MrTiggr> pwn any windoze boxxen with rdp open
637 2012-05-23 17:32:33 <upb> what does it have to do with bitcoin ?:P
638 2012-05-23 17:32:34 <MrTiggr> very ouch
639 2012-05-23 17:32:37 <MrTiggr> well
640 2012-05-23 17:32:47 <MrTiggr> if you has btc server on doxe
641 2012-05-23 17:32:52 <MrTiggr> and you admin over rdp
642 2012-05-23 17:32:59 <MrTiggr> if this is the real deal
643 2012-05-23 17:33:01 <MrTiggr> ur pwnd
644 2012-05-23 17:33:03 <upb> its probably DoS poc like the ones before
645 2012-05-23 17:33:03 <MrTiggr> boned
646 2012-05-23 17:33:06 <MrTiggr> fskcd
647 2012-05-23 17:33:09 <MrTiggr> nah
648 2012-05-23 17:33:14 <MrTiggr> i dunt think so
649 2012-05-23 17:33:20 <MrTiggr> not how i got it
650 2012-05-23 17:33:27 <MrTiggr> ive not testedit yet ho
651 2012-05-23 17:33:30 <MrTiggr> *tho
652 2012-05-23 17:33:37 <MrTiggr> so... thats y i asks
653 2012-05-23 17:33:51 <upb> heh
654 2012-05-23 17:34:07 <upb> its the same ones that were discussed on the ms12-020 channel one is by jduck
655 2012-05-23 17:34:13 <upb> so yeah theyre both just DoS
656 2012-05-23 17:34:21 <MrTiggr> noooo
657 2012-05-23 17:34:24 <MrTiggr> its not
658 2012-05-23 17:34:32 <MrTiggr> its based pon jducks
659 2012-05-23 17:34:36 <MrTiggr> *upon
660 2012-05-23 17:34:38 <MrTiggr> sry
661 2012-05-23 17:34:42 <MrTiggr> fingrfail tonite
662 2012-05-23 17:34:55 <MrTiggr> ...  i have translation coming
663 2012-05-23 17:34:58 Diapolo has left ()
664 2012-05-23 17:35:16 <MrTiggr> but basically it sez "jduck fell from fame .. amost got it ryt .. here is the correction"
665 2012-05-23 17:35:37 * MrTiggr has chinexe nationals as .. friends
666 2012-05-23 17:36:53 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: yea, I pinged him like 10 minutes ago to see what was up
667 2012-05-23 17:37:01 <MrTiggr> th BlueMatt
668 2012-05-23 17:37:05 <MrTiggr> *ty
669 2012-05-23 17:37:12 <MrTiggr> sooo fingrfail me tonite
670 2012-05-23 17:37:18 <MrTiggr> bed ithink
671 2012-05-23 17:37:28 <upb> seems more like enteromania
672 2012-05-23 17:37:37 <MrTiggr> possibly
673 2012-05-23 17:38:04 <MrTiggr> ill sandbox it tomoz, just thought it interesting to get it out there to .. other tz
674 2012-05-23 17:38:14 <MrTiggr> aaanyway
675 2012-05-23 17:38:20 <MrTiggr> checkit or not
676 2012-05-23 17:38:25 <MrTiggr> nn all!
677 2012-05-23 17:39:02 <BlueMatt> what did I do?
678 2012-05-23 17:39:03 DogCatMouse has joined
679 2012-05-23 17:39:28 <DogCatMouse> Are you all developers? :-)
680 2012-05-23 17:39:52 <BlueMatt> there are a log in here
681 2012-05-23 17:40:56 <DogCatMouse> One question: I am working in an open source project and we just strated to accept BTC donations. I know that places where people can spend BTC are still a bit rare so I wonder if there is a site where we could register or something.
682 2012-05-23 17:41:23 <DogCatMouse> Anyone know something like that?
683 2012-05-23 17:43:29 <BlueMatt> there is https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Donation-accepting_organizations_and_projects
684 2012-05-23 17:44:02 <MrTiggr> DogCatMouse: post on the forums  - bitcointalk
685 2012-05-23 17:45:03 <MrTiggr> #bitcoin-otc and #bitcoin-police wud probably love to hear from u too DogCatMouse ..they practice safe btc trading .. a good rep there means abit here in btc
686 2012-05-23 17:45:14 <DogCatMouse> Cool, why haven't I found that wiki page before.... hmm thx.
687 2012-05-23 17:49:23 <Matt_von_Mises> So am I right that 0x05,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x80,0x00 would be the correct number representation for the script?: The extra zero is needed to avoid the negative sign.
688 2012-05-23 17:49:42 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
689 2012-05-23 17:51:04 <RedEmerald> my TorBox workstation was able to receive a transaction with next-test without having to do anything to the torrc :)
690 2012-05-23 17:51:36 <DogCatMouse> MrTiggr: How do you mean that about otc and police?
691 2012-05-23 17:52:26 <RedEmerald> bitcoind -addnode=p2hwc26zdsrqxiix.onion -proxy=192.168.0.1:9100 (note the proxy is on the Tor Gateway with a nonstandard port)
692 2012-05-23 17:56:02 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
693 2012-05-23 17:57:12 <MrTiggr> DogCatMouse: .. irc channels just like this
694 2012-05-23 17:57:33 <MrTiggr> type /join #botcoin-otc
695 2012-05-23 17:57:51 <MrTiggr> or /join #bitcoin-police
696 2012-05-23 17:57:57 <MrTiggr> *oops BITCOIN ofc
697 2012-05-23 17:58:12 <MrTiggr> go see the lovely people there :D
698 2012-05-23 17:58:17 <MrTiggr> nn!
699 2012-05-23 17:59:56 <DogCatMouse> I know what IRC channels are... :-) I just did not understand what you meant when you said "a good rep there means abit here in btc"
700 2012-05-23 17:59:56 barmstrong has joined
701 2012-05-23 18:00:18 <DogCatMouse> Why should I go there, and what should I do, and why?
702 2012-05-23 18:00:43 <Eliel_> it's a community of sorts. Reputation matters.
703 2012-05-23 18:02:13 <DogCatMouse> I don't see the point.I mean, we have a serious open source project and everyone who visits our site and uses our software will notice that.
704 2012-05-23 18:02:19 PK has joined
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708 2012-05-23 18:02:57 <BlueMatt> unless you are selling/trading something, I dont think having a reputation in -otc really matters much...
709 2012-05-23 18:03:10 <BlueMatt> nor -police, I havent heard anyone care about reputation there, no matter what you're doing
710 2012-05-23 18:04:11 <DogCatMouse> I get it. No, we do not trade anything. we give away our software for free and people can donate if they want to support us.
711 2012-05-23 18:06:48 <DogCatMouse> BlueMatt: Thanks for the link. I just added our site.
712 2012-05-23 18:07:29 <DogCatMouse> BlueMatt: But I am a little bit disappointed. I added us 5 minutes ago and still did not receive any donation. ;-)
713 2012-05-23 18:08:22 <BlueMatt> heh, dont expect any from that site alone (any more, if you were here a year ago, you could)
714 2012-05-23 18:12:43 <DogCatMouse> I was here a year ago :-)
715 2012-05-23 18:13:40 <BlueMatt> well, if you were accepting donations ~1.25 years ago, then
716 2012-05-23 18:13:48 <DogCatMouse> No :-)
717 2012-05-23 18:14:58 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
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749 2012-05-23 19:33:42 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
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760 2012-05-23 20:00:14 <Joric> google won that 9 string case, oracle get no compensation
761 2012-05-23 20:06:13 davout has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
762 2012-05-23 20:07:55 <Eliel_> yay!
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764 2012-05-23 20:15:10 parker is now known as c_k
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773 2012-05-23 20:27:23 <midnightmagic> yay
774 2012-05-23 20:28:44 <upb> oracle has patented 'method and system for performing static initialization.'
775 2012-05-23 20:28:47 <upb> heh
776 2012-05-23 20:30:17 shurnormal has joined
777 2012-05-23 20:31:38 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
778 2012-05-23 20:34:24 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: jgarzik opened pull request 1383 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1383>
779 2012-05-23 20:34:46 wasabi1 has joined
780 2012-05-23 20:37:28 <Matt_von_Mises> 0x01,0x80 CB_SCRIPT_OP_0 OP_NUMEQUAL OP_1 OP_NUMEQUALVERIFY OP_TRUE should leave true?
781 2012-05-23 20:38:33 zooko has left ("#tahoe-lafs")
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783 2012-05-23 20:41:50 <TuxBlackEdo> hey can someone explain to me why i tried to send a txn and it asked me for a 0.005 fee, so i cancelled the transaction and i pressed the button again and this time it didn't ask me for a fee?
784 2012-05-23 20:42:35 <TuxBlackEdo> i kid you not
785 2012-05-23 20:42:57 <TuxBlackEdo> it asked me for a fee, so i cancelled and i pressed submit again and then it did it for free
786 2012-05-23 20:43:07 smtmnyz_ is now known as smtmnyz
787 2012-05-23 20:43:24 <Eliel_> my guess (based on no knowledge of code though) is that the inputs just went past the threshold past which the fee is not required.
788 2012-05-23 20:43:36 <Eliel_> it's based on the ages and sizes of the inputs afterall.
789 2012-05-23 20:43:43 <TuxBlackEdo> yeah i know that
790 2012-05-23 20:43:45 <Eliel_> alternatively, maybe it chose different set of inputs
791 2012-05-23 20:43:56 <TuxBlackEdo> but i did it within 3 seconds, nothing changed
792 2012-05-23 20:44:23 Facefox has joined
793 2012-05-23 20:44:24 <Eliel_> it only takes a split second for a counter to increase the last unit to go past a threshold
794 2012-05-23 20:44:49 <Eliel_> can someone who knows the code comment? is there randomness in the input selection?
795 2012-05-23 20:50:57 <RedEmerald> it tries to pick the "best" inputs, but knapsack problems are hard
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811 2012-05-23 21:18:31 * jgarzik grabs http://code.google.com/p/bloomfilter/
812 2012-05-23 21:20:09 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
813 2012-05-23 21:21:34 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: why?
814 2012-05-23 21:21:40 <Diablo-D3> bloom filters are easy to write
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826 2012-05-23 21:39:12 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
827 2012-05-23 21:39:38 <jgarzik> Diablo-D3: no matter the ease of writing, there is still a cost in testing, hardening, bug finding
828 2012-05-23 21:39:56 Joric_ is now known as Joric
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830 2012-05-23 21:41:39 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: I dunno, I wrote one in like 10 minutes =/
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841 2012-05-23 22:07:13 <dk5> in coinbase transactions, when there is a list of recipients, is that a list of addresses that belong to the same person, or is it a list of mining pool participants?
842 2012-05-23 22:08:21 <Eliel_> dk5: it could be either. Although, I'd expect in most cases it's the list of mining pool participants.
843 2012-05-23 22:09:14 <dk5> Eliel_: Thanks. Are there any articles about this anywhere on the web? I'm having trouble finding them.
844 2012-05-23 22:09:15 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
845 2012-05-23 22:09:37 <Eliel_> not that I know of. I do know of 2 pools that use this method for paying their miners.
846 2012-05-23 22:10:43 <eian> \whois dk5
847 2012-05-23 22:10:50 <dk5> i see
848 2012-05-23 22:11:32 mortikia has quit (Disconnected by services)
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850 2012-05-23 22:13:05 Maged has joined
851 2012-05-23 22:13:21 <dk5> does anyone know how blockchain.info identifies which mining pool produced which block(s)?
852 2012-05-23 22:13:24 mortikia has joined
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854 2012-05-23 22:15:13 <gmaxwell> dk5: it guesses.
855 2012-05-23 22:15:28 <gmaxwell> (though some blocks identify themselves in the coinbase)
856 2012-05-23 22:15:36 <dk5> gmaxwell: based on what though?
857 2012-05-23 22:15:37 <dk5> oh
858 2012-05-23 22:16:04 <dk5> in the scripts?
859 2012-05-23 22:16:05 <Eliel_> dk5: ip-address is one thing
860 2012-05-23 22:16:18 <gmaxwell> dk5: they connect to lots of nodes and see which ones it comes from first.
861 2012-05-23 22:16:29 <Eliel_> also, Eligius and p2pool blocks are very easily told apart
862 2012-05-23 22:16:50 <dk5> yeah, but as far as I know, there's no easy way to connect an IP to a mining pool/Bitcoin address. Am I wrong?
863 2012-05-23 22:16:52 <Eliel_> (they're the multioutput coinbase pools)
864 2012-05-23 22:17:16 <gmaxwell> dk5: they've done the relevant homework to figure it out.
865 2012-05-23 22:17:25 <doublec> dk5: they connect to lots of nodes (including pool nodes if they know them) and look for who announces the block first
866 2012-05-23 22:17:36 <gmaxwell> doublec: welcome back from mars!
867 2012-05-23 22:17:37 <dk5> are there sources for this homework?
868 2012-05-23 22:17:41 <doublec> gmaxwell: thanks!
869 2012-05-23 22:17:51 <gmaxwell> dk5: No.
870 2012-05-23 22:18:02 <dk5> so they're guessing
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876 2012-05-23 22:27:12 <Matt_von_Mises> I've just implemented the script interpreter except for OP_CHECKSIG etc. Assuming I got the integer formatting correct, it wasn't too difficult. Before I can do OP_CHECKSIG I need to sort out the transaction structures.
877 2012-05-23 22:28:08 <phantomcircuit> OP_CHECKSIG is easily 90% of the work
878 2012-05-23 22:28:11 <phantomcircuit> maybe 99%
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882 2012-05-23 22:30:05 <Matt_von_Mises> Looking forward to it. :-)
883 2012-05-23 22:33:10 rdponticelli_ is now known as rdponticelli
884 2012-05-23 22:36:26 <Matt_von_Mises> If anyone is curious about my masterpiece: https://github.com/MatthewLM/cbitcoin/blob/master/cbitcoin/src/structures/CBScript/CBScript.c
885 2012-05-23 22:36:35 Joric has quit ()
886 2012-05-23 22:37:38 <graingert> Matt_von_Mises: tldr?
887 2012-05-23 22:38:03 <graingert> I'm loving line 30
888 2012-05-23 22:38:06 <Matt_von_Mises> TLDR: (insert lots of code here)
889 2012-05-23 22:38:10 <graingert> https://github.com/MatthewLM/cbitcoin/blob/master/cbitcoin/src/structures/CBScript/CBScript.c#L30
890 2012-05-23 22:38:28 <graingert> really, you've got to be shitting me, I thought it was an interface
891 2012-05-23 22:38:37 <graingert> glad you said it was a constructor
892 2012-05-23 22:38:59 <graingert> https://github.com/MatthewLM/cbitcoin/blob/master/cbitcoin/src/structures/CBScript/CBScript.c#L59
893 2012-05-23 22:39:02 <graingert> wow
894 2012-05-23 22:39:05 <graingert> an Object Getter!
895 2012-05-23 22:39:10 <graingert> how usefull
896 2012-05-23 22:39:14 <graingert> I bet it gets objects
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898 2012-05-23 22:40:14 <Matt_von_Mises> I was just trying to organise everything in a simple to understand manner.
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901 2012-05-23 22:40:29 <Matt_von_Mises> Rather than a big pile of functions that you can't be bothered to look at.
902 2012-05-23 22:41:00 <Matt_von_Mises> All the other OOP-style structures follow the same format.
903 2012-05-23 22:41:15 <graingert> how about you comment stuff that isn't obvious
904 2012-05-23 22:41:22 <graingert> say what the code does at the top
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907 2012-05-23 22:41:58 <Matt_von_Mises> At the top of the file? All functions/structures etc are documented in the header files.
908 2012-05-23 22:42:29 <Matt_von_Mises> In the source files comments are used for specific explanations in the code.
909 2012-05-23 22:43:26 <graingert> hmm
910 2012-05-23 22:43:44 <graingert> it's not very helpful having things like
911 2012-05-23 22:43:51 <graingert> Object Getter
912 2012-05-23 22:44:13 <graingert> it should be clear that's that is what it does
913 2012-05-23 22:44:35 <Matt_von_Mises> https://github.com/MatthewLM/cbitcoin/blob/master/cbitcoin/src/structures/CBScript/CBScript.h#L99
914 2012-05-23 22:44:47 <Matt_von_Mises> The documentation is in the header files.
915 2012-05-23 22:45:55 <Matt_von_Mises> And yes the documentation is uncompleted in areas.
916 2012-05-23 22:46:24 <graingert> ok
917 2012-05-23 22:47:13 <graingert> In that case I dislike the fact I was presented bang in the middle of some code with no description of the file
918 2012-05-23 22:49:43 <Matt_von_Mises> "// SEE HEADER FILE FOR DOCUMENTATION" ?
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920 2012-05-23 22:57:21 <Matt_von_Mises> There we go: https://github.com/MatthewLM/cbitcoin/blob/master/cbitcoin/src/structures/CBScript/CBScript.c#L23
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