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24 2012-05-25 00:40:25 <luke-jr> jgarzik: 10% seems to be a reasonable expectation for 1-txn blocks FWIW
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37 2012-05-25 00:42:08 <sipa> KingKatari: it fails if you already have the key
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62 2012-05-25 00:48:32 <sipa> KingKatari: it fails if you already have the key
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66 2012-05-25 00:49:38 * luke-jr wonders if MtGox can withdraw to P2SH addresses yet <.<
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77 2012-05-25 01:06:44 <gmaxwell> looks like that dice site is about 130mbytes of blockchain.
78 2012-05-25 01:06:52 <gmaxwell> (now)
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81 2012-05-25 01:12:24 <SomeoneWeird> wow
82 2012-05-25 01:12:53 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: try out my tests yet? :P
83 2012-05-25 01:16:41 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
84 2012-05-25 01:17:22 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: time to prune
85 2012-05-25 01:18:07 <gmaxwell> In sipa's prior measurements pruning did very littleâ perhaps we'll see otherwise now.
86 2012-05-25 01:18:42 <gmaxwell> It might also be a lot more effective with a change to coin selection that encouraged it to sweep up small inputs in excess of what was needed.
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89 2012-05-25 01:23:21 <luke-jr> pruning can create problems with downloading blocks <.<
90 2012-05-25 01:23:21 <luke-jr> IMO more important to get lite-node-while-downloading support
91 2012-05-25 01:23:29 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: that would be quite nice...
92 2012-05-25 01:23:42 <jgarzik> luke-jr: incorrect
93 2012-05-25 01:23:52 <jgarzik> luke-jr: all that is needed is removal from tx index
94 2012-05-25 01:23:58 <jgarzik> luke-jr: blocks served remain intact
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97 2012-05-25 01:25:14 <luke-jr> jgarzik: well, removing it from the index won't save nearly as much space
98 2012-05-25 01:25:29 <luke-jr> isn't that 130 MB of the raw data, not indexing?
99 2012-05-25 01:27:33 <gmaxwell> Yes. But? the indexing is in addition to that and can be saved at least.
100 2012-05-25 01:28:18 <luke-jr> can't hurt I guess
101 2012-05-25 01:28:38 <luke-jr> I wish p2pool switched to prunable garbage outputs
102 2012-05-25 01:29:42 <sipa> jgarzik: maybe it makes sense to, before merging blockindex, switch to a new format that supports pruning at the database level at least
103 2012-05-25 01:30:12 <sipa> i.e., keep for each block an index with all its txn, in addition to its header
104 2012-05-25 01:30:38 <sipa> so there is no requirement that all transactions are stored consecutively
105 2012-05-25 01:34:56 <BlueMatt> would it not be about 2 lines of code to just remove txes from txindex if they are entirely spent while converting to #blockindex?
106 2012-05-25 01:37:19 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: well, #blockindex uses LoadExternalBlockFile() entirely for the upgrade
107 2012-05-25 01:37:39 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: great, so it would take even less code?
108 2012-05-25 01:37:40 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: you can update that function, and then #blockindex will behave however you wish, as will -loadblock
109 2012-05-25 01:37:51 <jgarzik> just takes code in a different locale :)
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111 2012-05-25 01:38:29 <BlueMatt> the code to remove txes in AcceptBlock or something it calls is required either way, so...less code ;)
112 2012-05-25 01:38:48 <BlueMatt> or, I guess ConnectBlock
113 2012-05-25 01:39:41 <jgarzik> overall, I think it is fair to ask: what parts of the system do we care about, what parts are negatively impacted by DiceSpam? Storing transactions in blk0001.dat does not really seem to matter, as disk space is cheap. However, each TX index lookup must bear the burden of the accumulated weight of all transactions, ever, even spent ones behind hardcoded chain checkpoints.
114 2012-05-25 01:40:09 <jgarzik> but that is an unquantified gut feeling -- maybe we don't care?
115 2012-05-25 01:40:15 <KingKatari> I am having trouble importing a prive key for a vanity address
116 2012-05-25 01:40:16 <KingKatari> i keep getting error: {"code":-4,"message":"Error adding key to wallet"}
117 2012-05-25 01:40:22 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: thats about the same feeling I get
118 2012-05-25 01:40:27 <BlueMatt> that, plus bw concerns
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120 2012-05-25 01:40:43 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: bw concerns... during IBD?
121 2012-05-25 01:40:48 <BlueMatt> yea
122 2012-05-25 01:40:58 <BlueMatt> well, the bw we have to give to others who are in IBD
123 2012-05-25 01:41:11 <BlueMatt> there, we really need to dl from multiple peers during IBD
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127 2012-05-25 01:43:30 <KingKatari> How would i make my Server a node so that i can help others in IBD?
128 2012-05-25 01:43:38 Snapman is now known as Snapman[afkers]
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130 2012-05-25 01:46:03 <BlueMatt> make sure your ports are forwarded
131 2012-05-25 01:46:13 <BlueMatt> and run bitcoind (obv)
132 2012-05-25 01:47:06 <KingKatari> does it matter that my server is also used to run a pool?
133 2012-05-25 01:47:43 <luke-jr> KingKatari vs diki. fight!
134 2012-05-25 01:47:45 copumpkin has joined
135 2012-05-25 01:47:47 <luke-jr> <.<
136 2012-05-25 01:48:48 <KingKatari> Hahaha i'll just take his system out then he cant fight
137 2012-05-25 01:50:18 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: bw concerns are understandable... but it seems like a really big step to start serving non-full blocks. pruning a local tx index seems more doable.
138 2012-05-25 01:51:00 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: Im not saying serve non-full blocks, Im saying fix initial block dl to dl from multiple peers at once
139 2012-05-25 01:51:03 <BlueMatt> instead of one at a time
140 2012-05-25 01:51:49 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: ok sure. thought you were saying there were bandwidth concerns related specifically to tx pruning
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144 2012-05-25 01:53:59 <BlueMatt> no
145 2012-05-25 01:54:28 <BlueMatt> I mean total concerns regarding huge tx volume from dicespam
146 2012-05-25 01:55:12 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: ignore the bw concerns for a minute, the dicespam inputs from users are often using up all the free txn space in blocks.
147 2012-05-25 01:55:45 <gmaxwell> So you have these low priority txns which don't need to be mined quickly (because the dice site works just fine with no confirmations) causing normal txns to be delayed.
148 2012-05-25 01:56:09 <gmaxwell> then multiply that with a few miners not processing txns at allâ and we end up with a system which is good for spamming, not so good for transacting.
149 2012-05-25 01:56:18 <Diablo-D3> I hate to interrupt you two fine gentlemen
150 2012-05-25 01:56:21 <KingKatari> no joke i had to wait an hour for 1 conf on a 30btc tx
151 2012-05-25 01:56:22 <Diablo-D3> but is my analysis wrong?
152 2012-05-25 01:56:30 <Diablo-D3> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83332.msg920461#msg920461
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156 2012-05-25 02:07:19 <jgarzik> anyways... cheers! if I broke something, it will get fixed in two weeks :)
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158 2012-05-25 02:07:35 <luke-jr> â¦
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160 2012-05-25 02:08:45 <BlueMatt> croatia...fun
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186 2012-05-25 03:04:21 <graingert> so who's heard of http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-0.6.html
187 2012-05-25 03:04:57 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: graingert opened issue 1390 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1390>
188 2012-05-25 03:05:12 <graingert> http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
189 2012-05-25 03:06:35 <graingert> it gives the proper locations of the wallet the config files and the block chain
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191 2012-05-25 03:14:16 <luke-jr> graingert: to be taken with a grain of salt; freedesktop.org is GNOME-centric
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194 2012-05-25 03:17:44 <graingert> it's mostly stuff for between applications
195 2012-05-25 03:17:51 <graingert> *desktops
196 2012-05-25 03:18:02 <graingert> eg: DnD is the drag-and-drop specification shared between GTK+ and Qt.
197 2012-05-25 03:18:13 <graingert> "freedesktop.org is building a base platform for desktop software on Linux and UNIX. The elements of this platform have become the backend for higher-level application-visible APIs such as Qt, GTK+, XUL, VCL, WINE, GNOME, and KDE. The base platform is both software and specifications. "
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199 2012-05-25 03:23:15 <graingert> luke-jr: I really don't see any gnome centric stuff there
200 2012-05-25 03:23:43 <luke-jr> graingert: Telepathy
201 2012-05-25 03:24:37 <luke-jr> and when I brought it to KDE's attention, they were all "yeah we know, they're basically GNOME nowadays" -.-
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203 2012-05-25 03:25:38 <graingert> and in what way is telepathy GTK?
204 2012-05-25 03:25:50 <graingert> and can I have a citation for that quote
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206 2012-05-25 03:26:50 <graingert> http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/doc/telepathy-qt/
207 2012-05-25 03:27:05 <graingert> copyright Nokia Corporation
208 2012-05-25 03:27:10 <graingert> not very gnome centric
209 2012-05-25 03:27:45 <luke-jr> graingert: the main libraries are GNOME-stack
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211 2012-05-25 03:27:51 <luke-jr> even if they have Qt bindings
212 2012-05-25 03:28:10 <luke-jr> furthermore, those Qt bindings require Qt built as part of a GNOME system to work
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214 2012-05-25 03:29:10 <graingert> http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Libglib
215 2012-05-25 03:29:21 <graingert> and libxml seem to be the only "GTK" deps
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217 2012-05-25 03:30:34 <graingert> actually you can use this http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/libtelepathy-qt4-2
218 2012-05-25 03:30:43 <graingert> and that uses only the qt4-xml libs
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220 2012-05-25 03:32:15 <freewil> anyone want to help me out by generating some orphaned txs on testnet?
221 2012-05-25 03:32:26 <graingert> either way it's better than dumping all the stuff in ~/.bitcoin/
222 2012-05-25 03:32:40 <graingert> that way we can say "clear your cache"
223 2012-05-25 03:32:48 <graingert> or delete the config files
224 2012-05-25 03:32:58 <graingert> and be safe from them deleating the wallet
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228 2012-05-25 03:37:53 <graingert> deleting*
229 2012-05-25 03:38:00 <graingert> and maybe some day I'll learn to spell
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231 2012-05-25 03:40:30 <freewil> im glad you clarified that, ive been confused for the last 5 mins
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292 2012-05-25 06:53:46 <olp> What's the proper way to use bitcoin-qt with Tor? I disconnect my network, Start up bitcoin-qt, change the socks proxy settings to 127.0.0.1:9050, exit bitcoin-qt, start network, start bitcoin-qt, and I get "Invalid -proxy address" and bitcoin-qt closes.
293 2012-05-25 06:54:56 <olp> but if I set the proxy settings with network connections on, then it works. But then there's the possibility that info is being leaked...
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302 2012-05-25 07:03:53 <freewil> olp, i dont think tor is officially supported yet
303 2012-05-25 07:04:00 <freewil> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1174
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312 2012-05-25 07:18:29 <olp> I think I got it to work by editing .config/Bitcoin/Bitcoin-Qt.conf
313 2012-05-25 07:18:47 <olp> Where else does bitcoin hide config files!
314 2012-05-25 07:19:45 <Diablo-D3> olp: um
315 2012-05-25 07:20:02 <Diablo-D3> setting it in the qt ui settings should work fine
316 2012-05-25 07:20:31 <olp> Well feel free to test it out as I mentioned (on Ubuntu at least)
317 2012-05-25 07:21:54 <Diablo-D3> well, it worked the last time I tried
318 2012-05-25 07:21:57 <Diablo-D3> although that was like a year ago
319 2012-05-25 07:22:05 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin is growing native tor support, though
320 2012-05-25 07:22:10 <Diablo-D3> so I suggest you wait for that
321 2012-05-25 07:22:19 <olp> ya the key point is that it doesnt work when you set it while network connections are off
322 2012-05-25 07:22:39 <Diablo-D3> weird
323 2012-05-25 07:22:43 <Diablo-D3> tell gmaxwell and sipa
324 2012-05-25 07:22:46 <Diablo-D3> and gavin
325 2012-05-25 07:22:51 <olp> its ok I can file a little report on github
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347 2012-05-25 09:30:47 <sipa> olp: where exactly do you set that?
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352 2012-05-25 09:31:37 <SomeoneWeird> what should i be using to hash passwords?
353 2012-05-25 09:31:52 <sipa> for what purpose?
354 2012-05-25 09:32:35 <SomeoneWeird> for storing in a db
355 2012-05-25 09:32:37 <SomeoneWeird> ?
356 2012-05-25 09:35:31 <sipa> just for authentication?
357 2012-05-25 09:36:38 <SomeoneWeird> yeah, but what else could it be used for?
358 2012-05-25 09:36:41 * SomeoneWeird has mental blank
359 2012-05-25 09:36:57 <sipa> to encrypt stuff, for example
360 2012-05-25 09:37:31 <olp> sipa: Settings->Options->Connect through SOCKS4 proxy
361 2012-05-25 09:37:51 <SomeoneWeird> ah right, just auth for a website
362 2012-05-25 09:38:11 <olp> it shows Proxy IP: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0, Port: 0
363 2012-05-25 09:38:43 <sipa> SomeoneWeird: iterated hmac-sha512, using custom salt, truncate to 256 bit
364 2012-05-25 09:38:56 <sipa> that'd do :)
365 2012-05-25 09:39:18 <sipa> olp: sounds correct
366 2012-05-25 09:40:40 <olp> when I set it to 127.0.0.1:9050 and close, the file .config/Bitcoin/Bitcoin-Qt.conf shows 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0 instead of 127.0.0.1, so I have to manually set it otherwise Bitcoin starts with an error and closes
367 2012-05-25 09:41:13 <sipa> hmm, which version of the code is that, olp?
368 2012-05-25 09:41:25 <olp> 0.6.2
369 2012-05-25 09:41:41 <sipa> ok, shouldn't be
370 2012-05-25 09:41:48 <sipa> i'll have a look
371 2012-05-25 09:42:02 <olp> but this only happens when I disconnect my network connections before starting bitcoin-qt to set the proxy settings
372 2012-05-25 09:42:42 <olp> Network Manager icon -> uncheck Enable Networking
373 2012-05-25 09:43:10 <weex> SomeoneWeird: look at phpass
374 2012-05-25 09:43:35 <SomeoneWeird> not using php weex
375 2012-05-25 09:43:39 <SomeoneWeird> and thanks sipa :)
376 2012-05-25 09:44:08 <weex> mkay
377 2012-05-25 09:44:39 slush1 has joined
378 2012-05-25 09:45:49 <sipa> olp: hmm, strange that it would fail to recognize 127.0.0.1 even when networking is off
379 2012-05-25 09:46:36 <olp> its on a VM that Im trying
380 2012-05-25 09:46:41 <sipa> olp: anyway, if you set proxy, even while networking is enabled, you should not leak anything
381 2012-05-25 09:46:43 slush has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
382 2012-05-25 09:47:17 <sipa> you can also start the program with -proxy=127.0.0.1:9050
383 2012-05-25 09:47:55 <olp> ya for me I can find workarounds, just for other people it should be ideally easier
384 2012-05-25 09:48:17 Turingi has joined
385 2012-05-25 09:48:57 <olp> and Im thinking maybe it broadcasts some wallet addresses when it starts up, thats why Id prefer it to be setup before connecting network
386 2012-05-25 09:49:25 <sipa> it never broadcasts wallet information :)
387 2012-05-25 09:49:51 paraipan has joined
388 2012-05-25 09:50:00 <sipa> ah, it may broadcast unconfirmed transactions sometimes
389 2012-05-25 09:51:41 <olp> anyway, no biggie, but if you do test it out please let me know if Im wrong and its just some of my system settings that messed it up
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407 2012-05-25 11:06:49 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Prohest opened issue 1391 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1391>
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428 2012-05-25 12:10:49 <luke-jr> hmm
429 2012-05-25 12:10:59 <luke-jr> 0.5.x just sync'd from scratch without problems
430 2012-05-25 12:11:24 <sipa> why wouldn't it?
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443 2012-05-25 12:21:33 <luke-jr> sipa: MtRed reported it was stuck on a P2SH block
444 2012-05-25 12:21:44 <luke-jr> ERROR: ConnectInputs() : 968a692ab9 P2SH VerifySignature failed
445 2012-05-25 12:22:23 <luke-jr> thing is, I don't see how that could result from any kind of corruption
446 2012-05-25 12:22:36 <luke-jr> and when he upgraded to 0.6.x, it worked without detecting any errors
447 2012-05-25 12:23:05 <luke-jr> (after which he went back to 0.5.x since his patches don't work with 0.6.x)
448 2012-05-25 12:23:26 <BlueMatt> has he run -checkblocks?
449 2012-05-25 12:23:36 <luke-jr> no
450 2012-05-25 12:23:54 <sipa> i doubt -checkblocks will reveal much on 0.5.x
451 2012-05-25 12:23:54 <luke-jr> but if corruption were the problem, wouldn't 0.6.x have had the same issue?
452 2012-05-25 12:24:04 <sipa> yes
453 2012-05-25 12:24:41 <luke-jr> plus, the very fact that it got to the P2SH check stage means the scriptSig hash matched, and nothing from the old txn is used at that point
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464 2012-05-25 12:58:05 coinmaster has joined
465 2012-05-25 12:58:30 <coinmaster> hi everyone, what is the max number of letters in the comment ?
466 2012-05-25 12:59:38 BurtyB has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
467 2012-05-25 12:59:42 agricocb has joined
468 2012-05-25 13:01:22 <gavinandresen> what comment?
469 2012-05-25 13:01:45 danbri has joined
470 2012-05-25 13:03:18 <BlueMatt> anyone know off-hand how lazy bdb's delete is?
471 2012-05-25 13:04:44 <coinmaster> gavinandersen: basicaly i wonder about how many text i can add to each transaction actualy.. cause i think about a mail that uses the bitcoin system in a way all letters would be saved in the blockchain
472 2012-05-25 13:05:12 <gmaxwell> coinmaster: comments are not part of transactions.
473 2012-05-25 13:05:15 <gavinandresen> oh, the comment in the send* RPC commands? No limit.
474 2012-05-25 13:05:38 <gmaxwell> coinmaster: they're local only.
475 2012-05-25 13:05:46 <gavinandresen> but as gmaxwell says that information is stored only in your wallet
476 2012-05-25 13:06:05 <coinmaster> gmaxwell: ok understood is there a way to store it in the blockchain ?
477 2012-05-25 13:06:36 <sipa> coinmaster: there may be, but you shouldn't (the blockchain is only for information that is necessary for the world to validate the transactions)
478 2012-05-25 13:06:50 <gavinandresen> Sure, encode the information in transaction fees.
479 2012-05-25 13:07:07 <sipa> bleh...
480 2012-05-25 13:07:08 <gmaxwell> coinmaster: the system is relatively hostile to additional data, adding non-transaction data to the blockchain is parasitic and abusive. The users of bitcoin are all self interested in validating transaction data because its what proves that the system is non-inflationary, other things? not so much.
481 2012-05-25 13:07:12 <gavinandresen> :)
482 2012-05-25 13:07:35 <coinmaster> sipa: i think about to have a bitcoin alternative blockchain like namecoins for that
483 2012-05-25 13:09:28 <luke-jr> coinmaster: use email
484 2012-05-25 13:09:44 Graet has joined
485 2012-05-25 13:10:12 <coinmaster> luke-jr: i guess i know what you mean, but to store the mail encoded in a chain should be the purpose
486 2012-05-25 13:10:22 <luke-jr> coinmaster: why?
487 2012-05-25 13:11:02 <coinmaster> luke-jr: 100% public comunication but two times sha 256 encoded
488 2012-05-25 13:11:32 <luke-jr> coinmaster: what need is there for it to be public? or hashed?
489 2012-05-25 13:11:50 <luke-jr> much less reason to force every bitcoin user to deal with it
490 2012-05-25 13:12:55 <coinmaster> luke-jr: no there is no reason to force every bitcoin user to do that.. thats why such a system should be an alternative like namecoin is it furfills aswell a kind of encoded public record
491 2012-05-25 13:13:21 <luke-jr> I see no problem with the existing email system.
492 2012-05-25 13:13:35 <sipa> coinmaster: do you want to use it as a timestamping service?
493 2012-05-25 13:13:44 <sipa> (in which case, see chronobit)
494 2012-05-25 13:15:44 <coinmaster> sipa: chronobit could be a part of this mailchain
495 2012-05-25 13:16:01 <sipa> the questions remains why you want the data in a blockchain
496 2012-05-25 13:16:13 <sipa> and chronobit is not a separate blockchain
497 2012-05-25 13:18:53 <gmaxwell> could be part of? The point of chronobit is that it provides strongly provable datestamps without adding any size to the blockchain.
498 2012-05-25 13:19:15 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
499 2012-05-25 13:19:36 <gmaxwell> It remains to be seen if the chain PoW distributed system technique will be applicable outside of bitcoin, the evidence suggests that it may not be.
500 2012-05-25 13:20:34 <coinmaster> sipa: yes right, i see it as a way of secured but transparent comunication for example for a company.. and lets assume the size of the chain would not realy mather
501 2012-05-25 13:20:47 graingert has joined
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503 2012-05-25 13:21:49 <luke-jr> coinmaster: explain how the blockchain makes communication any more secure or transparent
504 2012-05-25 13:22:00 <sipa> what is 'secured' about it, any more than TCP/IP does, if you add a MAC to it?
505 2012-05-25 13:22:44 <coinmaster> the point is to transparency.. that everoyne that minies the chain does allso have the encoded block
506 2012-05-25 13:24:04 <sipa> and why would anyone be interested in seeing a obfuscated version of other people's data?
507 2012-05-25 13:24:26 <sipa> much less spand hash power to... what purpose exactly?
508 2012-05-25 13:24:40 <coinmaster> sipa: you could ask the same question 10 years ago for bitcoin
509 2012-05-25 13:25:41 <sipa> bitcoin's purpose is clear: store and transfer of value over the internet
510 2012-05-25 13:25:42 <gmaxwell> And it could have been trivially answered.
511 2012-05-25 13:25:49 <sipa> i don't see what your purpose is
512 2012-05-25 13:26:17 <sipa> maybe you are looking for something like freenet?
513 2012-05-25 13:26:17 <coinmaster> sipa: ok its secured transparency
514 2012-05-25 13:26:33 <sipa> give me a concrete example, who would benefit from it?
515 2012-05-25 13:26:48 <coinmaster> sipa: every citizen
516 2012-05-25 13:27:02 <sipa> you're getting even more vague
517 2012-05-25 13:27:04 <coinmaster> sipa: it could be used for votes
518 2012-05-25 13:27:14 <gmaxwell> In any case, the creator of bitcoin sat down and built itâ rather than arguing about its merits on IRC. I suggest you go do the same. Even if you're unsuccessful you'll perhaps learn something in the process.
519 2012-05-25 13:27:20 <coinmaster> sipa: for basic gov correspondence
520 2012-05-25 13:28:15 <coinmaster> gmxwell: i agree, im on that path
521 2012-05-25 13:28:30 <_Fireball> coinmaster, are you proposing a voting system based on the distributed database and transaction processing approach?
522 2012-05-25 13:28:47 <coinmaster> _Fireball: right
523 2012-05-25 13:28:50 <sipa> try using a DHT!
524 2012-05-25 13:28:56 <_Fireball> there was a thread in bitcointalk.org about it
525 2012-05-25 13:29:01 <_Fireball> with some ideas and concepts
526 2012-05-25 13:31:07 <coinmaster> _Fireball: thanks i try to find that
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535 2012-05-25 13:46:26 <copumpkin> is it just me or does bitcoin-qt reject my attempts to focus it the first time around? is that a known issue?
536 2012-05-25 13:47:49 coinmaster has quit (Quit: coinmaster)
537 2012-05-25 13:48:29 <Diapolo> I'm not sure what you mean ...
538 2012-05-25 13:48:49 <copumpkin> here's a screen recording of it
539 2012-05-25 13:50:03 <copumpkin> (just finishing it)
540 2012-05-25 13:53:34 <copumpkin> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/361503/Screen.m4v
541 2012-05-25 13:53:37 <copumpkin> does that work for you?
542 2012-05-25 13:54:03 <copumpkin> it happens consistently after I hide (cmd+h or the menu option I select in that video)
543 2012-05-25 13:54:17 <Diapolo> alright, yes, but I'm on Win ... this should be fixed with the current Github master branch
544 2012-05-25 13:54:19 <copumpkin> v0.6.2.2-beta
545 2012-05-25 13:54:22 <copumpkin> oh okay
546 2012-05-25 13:54:25 <Diapolo> but there is no official build, that fixes this
547 2012-05-25 13:54:27 MobiusL has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
548 2012-05-25 13:54:33 <luke-jr> copumpkin: what verison of OSX?
549 2012-05-25 13:54:40 <copumpkin> 10.7.4
550 2012-05-25 13:54:47 <luke-jr> hmm
551 2012-05-25 13:54:53 * luke-jr wants to find someone with 10.4 or 10.5
552 2012-05-25 13:55:05 <copumpkin> I'm in no rush to get it fixed on my end, just wanted to make sure people were aware of it
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563 2012-05-25 14:06:46 * Eliel_ wonders if it would make sense to make a tx fee lottery rule into the protocol. A rule that says 10-50% of all fees paid in the block will go to a random input address chosen from the transactions with fees. The block hash could be random number used to choose the winner.
564 2012-05-25 14:07:52 <Eliel_> would encourage people to pay fees :)
565 2012-05-25 14:10:06 <luke-jr> but wouldn't encourage people to mine here :p
566 2012-05-25 14:10:42 <Eliel_> why not? if it increases the number of people paying a fee, there's bound to be more left for the miners too
567 2012-05-25 14:10:51 <Eliel_> depending on the exact percentages of course
568 2012-05-25 14:10:51 <luke-jr> hmm
569 2012-05-25 14:12:06 <drizztbsd> Eliel_: more fees => more probability to win the lottery :P
570 2012-05-25 14:12:38 <Eliel_> drizztbsd: yes, but it doesn't make sense to put enormous amounts into the lottery nevertheless.
571 2012-05-25 14:12:59 <Eliel_> I expect the winnigs from it would be pretty small.
572 2012-05-25 14:13:05 <BlueMatt> but the miner picks the winner, so why cant the miner pick themselves?
573 2012-05-25 14:13:14 <Eliel_> BlueMatt: no, the block hash picks the winner
574 2012-05-25 14:13:19 <BlueMatt> ah
575 2012-05-25 14:13:20 <Eliel_> and network rules enforce it
576 2012-05-25 14:13:51 <luke-jr> closest txid to the block hash flipped?
577 2012-05-25 14:14:00 <Eliel_> would work
578 2012-05-25 14:14:01 <luke-jr> network rules can't enforce it :p
579 2012-05-25 14:14:14 <BlueMatt> miners could make a rainbow table and pretty much always win there
580 2012-05-25 14:14:15 <luke-jr> Eliel_: actually, it wouldn't work
581 2012-05-25 14:14:27 <drizztbsd> why network rules cannot enforce it?
582 2012-05-25 14:14:33 <luke-jr> drizztbsd: because it'd fork bitcoin
583 2012-05-25 14:14:41 <drizztbsd> oh
584 2012-05-25 14:14:42 <drizztbsd> baad
585 2012-05-25 14:14:53 <Eliel_> BlueMatt: huh? rainbow table of block hashes? ... makes no sense. that would mean blockchain is useless if possible.
586 2012-05-25 14:14:55 <sipa> Eliel_: i disagree with the notion of automatically assuming payments to an input address will arrive
587 2012-05-25 14:14:56 <luke-jr> hmm
588 2012-05-25 14:15:31 <BlueMatt> rainbow table of txes that pay to the miner
589 2012-05-25 14:15:37 <luke-jr> who has old OSX?
590 2012-05-25 14:15:51 <drizztbsd> I have an old OSX (tiger ppc) (at home)
591 2012-05-25 14:16:04 <luke-jr> OK, old i386 OSX
592 2012-05-25 14:16:10 <drizztbsd> ;(
593 2012-05-25 14:16:18 <luke-jr> since bitcoind isn't likely to support PPC any time soon
594 2012-05-25 14:16:18 <Eliel_> sipa: it works well enough and I'm pretty sure if this was adopted, they'd soon start arriving.
595 2012-05-25 14:16:25 <drizztbsd> oh, big endian
596 2012-05-25 14:17:18 <sipa> Eliel_: still, the fact that a reference to a particular key is used in the blockchain is in no way a statement that you're willing to receive funds with it
597 2012-05-25 14:17:26 <Eliel_> BlueMatt: you mean the miner would flood the block with their own txs?
598 2012-05-25 14:17:46 <luke-jr> Eliel_'s system is inherently opt-in for the miner anyway
599 2012-05-25 14:17:56 <luke-jr> if they want to steal it, they can just as well not participate
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601 2012-05-25 14:18:08 <BlueMatt> Eliel_: sure, why not?
602 2012-05-25 14:18:13 <Eliel_> luke-jr: true, it could work on a voluntary basis too.
603 2012-05-25 14:18:37 <BlueMatt> fill the block to max size with txes that are likely to put them closer to the block hash
604 2012-05-25 14:18:49 <BlueMatt> fill block to max, after other txes, that is
605 2012-05-25 14:19:56 <Eliel_> BlueMatt: true, no point making it mandatory if that can't be fixed.
606 2012-05-25 14:21:00 <Eliel_> sipa: I don't think that matters. If there's a good enough chance to receive money through this system, people will make transactions that work with it.
607 2012-05-25 14:21:31 <sipa> and i still agree with the idea :)
608 2012-05-25 14:22:12 <Eliel_> sipa: the idea?
609 2012-05-25 14:22:39 <sipa> the idea that you're going to automatically pay to an address used once in a spent txout
610 2012-05-25 14:22:46 <BlueMatt> its a cool idea, would take some work to make it work, but its cool
611 2012-05-25 14:23:07 * Eliel_ wonders if some large pools would be willing to take it for a test run.
612 2012-05-25 14:23:53 <BlueMatt> plus converting the network would be kinda...impossible?
613 2012-05-25 14:24:02 <Eliel_> it doesn't need to be all miners for the idea to work :)
614 2012-05-25 14:24:03 <gmaxwell> Sounds like a coin burning recipe.
615 2012-05-25 14:24:36 <Eliel_> gmaxwell: with the current system, yes, but if the idea sticks, it'll stop happening.
616 2012-05-25 14:25:12 <Eliel_> just need to careful in how to design which input address to pick.
617 2012-05-25 14:25:21 <gmaxwell> Eliel_: ... er so you want to make one use address behavior impossible in order to have more gambling?
618 2012-05-25 14:25:24 <Eliel_> so it's possible no matter what kind of transaction
619 2012-05-25 14:25:25 <gavinandresen> I don't like it from a PR/marketing point of view. It'd just contribute to the "bitcoin is a gambling/ponzi scheme" idea
620 2012-05-25 14:25:45 <Graet> that was my feeling gavinandresen
621 2012-05-25 14:26:17 <Eliel_> how about if it's not a network rule but something miners do voluntarily?
622 2012-05-25 14:26:28 <gavinandresen> And the microcash people already tried something like that, and have abandoned it.
623 2012-05-25 14:26:29 <Eliel_> I think there's definitely incentive out there.
624 2012-05-25 14:26:45 * sipa added IPv6/AAAA record support to his crawler/dnsseed, but doesn't see any IPv6 addresses appearing :(
625 2012-05-25 14:27:04 <Eliel_> we already have satoshidice anyway.
626 2012-05-25 14:27:24 <gavinandresen> if all your friends jump off a bridge....
627 2012-05-25 14:28:01 <BlueMatt> sipa: is it testing any, or has it not gotten any?
628 2012-05-25 14:28:02 <JFK911> then i claim to have secret revised wills for them
629 2012-05-25 14:28:07 <BlueMatt> sipa: should you prime it with one or two?
630 2012-05-25 14:28:15 <Eliel_> so, you think having pools doing this would be worse than just having satoshidice?
631 2012-05-25 14:28:17 <gmaxwell> Eliel_: satoshidice gives back a majority of all the funds sent to it.
632 2012-05-25 14:28:37 <gmaxwell> So you can't hope to tap into the same motivational structure.
633 2012-05-25 14:28:41 <sipa> BlueMatt: since jgarzik's seed contains my vps's v6 address statically, and my crawler seeds from existing other seeds, it should immediately have one
634 2012-05-25 14:28:50 ThomasV has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
635 2012-05-25 14:29:08 <BlueMatt> sipa: same with mine
636 2012-05-25 14:29:13 <Eliel_> well, lottery in Finland gives back only 40%, nearly everyone plays it regardless.
637 2012-05-25 14:29:19 <BlueMatt> (mine has a static see, that is)
638 2012-05-25 14:30:23 <gmaxwell> Eliel_: also miners will always have an incentive to just not participate.
639 2012-05-25 14:30:45 <gmaxwell> And heck, we can't even get all of them to upgrade when they're being orphaned as a result of it.
640 2012-05-25 14:30:53 <Eliel_> :D
641 2012-05-25 14:31:33 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: dunno, blockchain forks that cut out only up to 25% of miners are favourable IMO :P
642 2012-05-25 14:31:50 <luke-jr> as long as I'm not part of the 25%, I benefit from the difficulty drop
643 2012-05-25 14:31:56 <Eliel_> I mean, think about it. Deepbit, for example, could well do something like this for any fee-including transaction that was sent directly to it :P
644 2012-05-25 14:32:15 <Eliel_> they get blocks fast enough that waiting time is not too big.
645 2012-05-25 14:32:18 drizztbsd has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
646 2012-05-25 14:32:58 <gmaxwell> Who turned on the bluesky fountain today in any case?
647 2012-05-25 14:33:46 <sipa> ?
648 2012-05-25 14:35:29 <gmaxwell> we've got Eliel_ with the block chain casino, the guy earlier with the amorphous public good from putting unspecified things in unspecified blockchains.
649 2012-05-25 14:35:42 <Eliel_> :D
650 2012-05-25 14:36:18 <Eliel_> I've been playing with different ideas to persuade people to include fees in transactions lately :)
651 2012-05-25 14:37:05 makomk has joined
652 2012-05-25 14:38:35 <gmaxwell> Eliel_: If you want that, make the fee options in the client more comfortable to use... right now you can only set a fee per KB â but then might end up with a fee anywhere from 1x to 100x what you specified or so because size is opaque to users.
653 2012-05-25 14:39:09 <luke-jr> slider on the send transaction page that shows estimated time to confirm ;)
654 2012-05-25 14:39:09 <BlueMatt> make fees much clearer to users, and give miners better options to require fees
655 2012-05-25 14:39:21 <BlueMatt> ^ and make algorithms for miners that make that possible
656 2012-05-25 14:39:25 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: well, the latter is easily merged ;)
657 2012-05-25 14:39:41 <BlueMatt> though, thanks to dicespam, that is somewhat now possible anyway
658 2012-05-25 14:39:53 <luke-jr> git master, bitcoind --help segfaults <.<
659 2012-05-25 14:40:00 <gmaxwell> sipa: one reason you're not finding v6 nodes is that v6 on my network broke
660 2012-05-25 14:40:06 <luke-jr> wait not master, v0.6.2.2
661 2012-05-25 14:40:15 <gmaxwell> wha? really?
662 2012-05-25 14:40:59 <sipa> luke-jr: on your osx build, or in general?
663 2012-05-25 14:42:02 <luke-jr> sipa: on my Linux build
664 2012-05-25 14:42:07 <luke-jr> OSX gives a stranger error
665 2012-05-25 14:42:34 <helo> are 1-transaction blocks really a problem? if people's transactions are being ignored (i.e. insufficient incentive), isn't the solution to provide more incentive via higher fees?
666 2012-05-25 14:42:46 <luke-jr> OSX: terminate called throwing an exceptionAbort trap: 6
667 2012-05-25 14:42:49 tower has joined
668 2012-05-25 14:43:02 <Eliel_> helo: that's a good point :)
669 2012-05-25 14:44:06 <gmaxwell> helo: they were a rather high percentage for a bit but they went down. I don't know why jeff bought it up again.
670 2012-05-25 14:44:13 <luke-jr> helo: 10% of Eligius's blocks are 1-transaction simply because of the time it takes to process the transactions :/
671 2012-05-25 14:44:41 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: don't write mining code in python?
672 2012-05-25 14:44:41 <luke-jr> so IMO punishment isn't the solution: making that faster is
673 2012-05-25 14:46:09 graingert has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
674 2012-05-25 14:46:32 graingert has joined
675 2012-05-25 14:46:47 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: that might help
676 2012-05-25 14:47:24 brocktice has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
677 2012-05-25 14:48:43 <luke-jr> so it seems OSX 10.6 users are getting DB_RUNRECOVERY errors with my bitcoind
678 2012-05-25 14:49:02 <luke-jr> which is odd, since my cross-compiler is based on 10.5 Xcode
679 2012-05-25 14:49:15 <gmaxwell> Seriously, even if eligius had the whole network hashrateâ you're telling me that it takes you about 1.05360 minutes to process transactions after a block?
680 2012-05-25 14:49:18 <luke-jr> [14:45:54] <kinlo> luke-jr: and that was with an empty bitcoin data dir
681 2012-05-25 14:49:19 <luke-jr> [14:46:16] <kinlo> so I can't run database recovery - there is no database to recover
682 2012-05-25 14:49:26 <kinlo> pompom
683 2012-05-25 14:49:31 <kinlo> hilighter.
684 2012-05-25 14:49:31 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: perhaps most of the time is miners who don't longpoll
685 2012-05-25 14:50:01 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: it's f@#$#@ conman's @#$@#$@# stupid prev based nonsense I bet!
686 2012-05-25 14:50:13 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I thoguht he got rid of that :/
687 2012-05-25 14:50:31 <gmaxwell> Doesn't matter, it's not like people upgrade.
688 2012-05-25 14:50:38 <luke-jr> >_<
689 2012-05-25 14:51:17 <luke-jr> anyhow, this 10.6 error bothers me more
690 2012-05-25 14:51:35 <luke-jr> why would they get DB_RUNRECOVERY on an empty dir? :/
691 2012-05-25 14:51:49 shurnormal has joined
692 2012-05-25 14:52:46 <gmaxwell> not looking to the dir they think it is?
693 2012-05-25 14:53:06 <kinlo> unable to initialize mutex: Invalid argument
694 2012-05-25 14:53:14 <kinlo> that's in db.log from that empty dir
695 2012-05-25 14:53:19 <kinlo> well, there is more
696 2012-05-25 14:53:24 <kinlo> but that's the first error
697 2012-05-25 14:53:49 <luke-jr> hmm
698 2012-05-25 14:53:54 drizztbsd has joined
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700 2012-05-25 14:53:54 drizztbsd has joined
701 2012-05-25 14:53:58 <luke-jr> and the --help on OSX has a mutex error too
702 2012-05-25 14:54:03 <gmaxwell> sounds like the !private shm stuff is busted.
703 2012-05-25 14:54:40 <kinlo> http://pastebin.com/PtUJLdYc is the full db.log
704 2012-05-25 14:55:07 <luke-jr> (note this does work on Lion)
705 2012-05-25 14:55:40 <luke-jr> perhaps I should try an older version, 0.5.x?
706 2012-05-25 14:56:01 <kinlo> can I get build instructions? I'd like to build it myself actually
707 2012-05-25 14:56:11 <luke-jr> kinlo: you have gitian setup already?
708 2012-05-25 14:57:02 <kinlo> I have nothing, but I got xcode installed and related development tools
709 2012-05-25 14:57:24 <luke-jr> kinlo: I am building on Ubuntu.
710 2012-05-25 14:57:27 <kinlo> oic
711 2012-05-25 14:58:01 <kinlo> I'll have a look at it later then, to setup a full gitian setup first
712 2012-05-25 14:58:14 <luke-jr> gitian is Ubuntu-only FWIW
713 2012-05-25 14:58:30 <kinlo> no debian support?
714 2012-05-25 14:58:34 <kinlo> my build server is debian
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718 2012-05-25 15:02:18 <sipa> BlueMatt: bah, just realized that the bootstrapper only added addresses to the "to-be-tried" set, and doesn't try them immediately
719 2012-05-25 15:02:36 <sipa> and that the seeds.txt only contains nodes that have been contacted succesfully at least once
720 2012-05-25 15:02:43 <BlueMatt> ah
721 2012-05-25 15:02:46 * sipa just needs more patience
722 2012-05-25 15:03:41 <luke-jr> hmm
723 2012-05-25 15:03:45 <luke-jr> maybe I should try without -O3
724 2012-05-25 15:03:50 <luke-jr> I figured it was safe since makefile.osx had it
725 2012-05-25 15:05:18 Joric has joined
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727 2012-05-25 15:11:01 <sipa> BlueMatt: \o/
728 2012-05-25 15:11:16 <sipa> [2a02:348:5e:5a29::1]:833312.97%3.41%1.15%0.17%0.04%18153560001 "/Satoshi:0.6.99/"
729 2012-05-25 15:12:38 tcatm has joined
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731 2012-05-25 15:12:38 tcatm has joined
732 2012-05-25 15:12:50 <BlueMatt> sipa: nice!
733 2012-05-25 15:17:46 <sipa> BlueMatt: and it answers it in ANY requests too
734 2012-05-25 15:17:55 <sipa> (though with very low probability)
735 2012-05-25 15:18:37 ocharles_ has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
736 2012-05-25 15:18:41 ThomasV has joined
737 2012-05-25 15:24:24 <luke-jr> for reference, vrag got this from --help on 10.6:
738 2012-05-25 15:24:26 <luke-jr> [14:18:16] <vragnaroda> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'boost::interprocess::lock_exception' what(): boost::interprocess::lock_exception
739 2012-05-25 15:24:27 <luke-jr> [14:18:18] <vragnaroda> Abort trap
740 2012-05-25 15:25:16 * luke-jr wonders if somehow boost is compiling Linux-style pthreading code instead of Mac, and that is supported by Lion?
741 2012-05-25 15:26:14 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: try compiling with -DBOOST_SPIRIT_THREADSAFE
742 2012-05-25 15:26:15 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
743 2012-05-25 15:26:39 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: for v0.6.2.2?
744 2012-05-25 15:27:30 Z0rZ0rZ0r has joined
745 2012-05-25 15:27:47 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: shouldn't matter for 0.6.2.2, but the error sounds like the THREADSAFE issue we had with 0.7
746 2012-05-25 15:28:02 <luke-jr> hmm
747 2012-05-25 15:28:26 <luke-jr> ok, when I'm done rebuilding everything (checking for determinism) I'll try without -O3 and with -DBOOST_SPIRIT_THREADSAFE
748 2012-05-25 15:29:34 traviscj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
749 2012-05-25 15:29:40 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: although, I suspect that won't help since bdb is also giving us mutex errors
750 2012-05-25 15:30:28 <gavinandresen> I don't know nuthin about cross-compiling....
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761 2012-05-25 15:59:06 knotwork__ is now known as knotwork
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765 2012-05-25 16:22:49 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: did you see the miner tests I added to #1246 ?
766 2012-05-25 16:23:24 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: it builds a ~110 blockchain fork on mainnet starting with the genesis block, to test CreateNewBlock with
767 2012-05-25 16:24:14 <luke-jr> might (or might not) be useful for testnet_builder
768 2012-05-25 16:24:45 <gavinandresen> nice
769 2012-05-25 16:32:37 Glasswalker has joined
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773 2012-05-25 16:36:25 <Glasswalker> Hey, in the data from a getwork. The header is made up of concatenated little endian numbers (the last 32bits of which is the nonce). Is that header then converted to a single big-endian by sha256? (because sha256 assumes big endian) Or are only the individual bytes swapped for big endian? (meaning the bytes themselves are in the same order)
774 2012-05-25 16:36:54 <sipa> sha256 takes as input bytes, and produces as output bytes
775 2012-05-25 16:37:19 <sipa> internally, it interprets these bytes as big-endian number, but that is irrelevant unless you are implementing mining code
776 2012-05-25 16:38:13 <sipa> bitcoin uses the output bytes of sha256 as a 256-bit number in some places; in that case, the conversion is little-endian
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790 2012-05-25 16:51:26 <Glasswalker> sipa: And what if I AM implementing mining code? :)
791 2012-05-25 16:52:21 <Glasswalker> I know the output 256bit hash is converted as a single number (to detect if the hash meets difficulty)
792 2012-05-25 16:52:40 <Glasswalker> the concern is the hashing input must exactly match the rest of the networks "method" or it won't make valid hashes
793 2012-05-25 16:52:51 <luke-jr> Glasswalker: see Eloipool source? :p
794 2012-05-25 16:53:26 <Glasswalker> ugh... :) why is it whenever I ask that nobody can simply answer the question and always points me at somebody's (usually somewhat messy due to optimization) source code?
795 2012-05-25 16:53:27 <Glasswalker> :)
796 2012-05-25 16:56:24 <Glasswalker> not saying your code is messy in general, just that generally optimized bitcoin code is not very "clear" (as a direct result of the optimization)
797 2012-05-25 16:58:03 rdponticelli has quit (Quit: I'm, gone.)
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799 2012-05-25 16:59:41 <luke-jr> https://gitorious.org/bitcoin/eloipool/blobs/master/eloipool.py#line136\
800 2012-05-25 16:59:43 danbri has joined
801 2012-05-25 16:59:43 <luke-jr> https://gitorious.org/bitcoin/eloipool/blobs/master/eloipool.py#line136
802 2012-05-25 17:02:13 <Glasswalker> ok that helps :) but that is just telling me what getwork is outputting to the mining client. I need to know when actually hashing (so example using PHP SHA256(SHA256(data))) is the sha256 function doing any byte flipping on the input data?
803 2012-05-25 17:02:32 <helo> php :(
804 2012-05-25 17:02:43 <Glasswalker> lol it was an example posted in the wiki
805 2012-05-25 17:02:50 <Glasswalker> I'm writing this in Verilog to be exact
806 2012-05-25 17:02:58 Nicksasa has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
807 2012-05-25 17:03:24 <luke-jr> Glasswalker: getwork's data already has the first step of SHA256 done on it
808 2012-05-25 17:03:30 <Glasswalker> I'm implementing my own SHA2 algorithm. I've duplicated the "official" sha transform for a single 512bit block. I'll be using a precalculated midstate. But in my bitcoin specific part which wraps the SHA2 core, I need to know what bits (and in what order) hold the nonce
809 2012-05-25 17:03:31 <luke-jr> Glasswalker: so you need to skip that step :P
810 2012-05-25 17:03:33 <Glasswalker> which I'll be incrimenting
811 2012-05-25 17:03:35 <luke-jr> or undo it
812 2012-05-25 17:03:45 <Glasswalker> right
813 2012-05-25 17:03:47 <Glasswalker> I'm skipping it
814 2012-05-25 17:03:54 <Glasswalker> and doing only a single stage using the midstate
815 2012-05-25 17:04:12 <Glasswalker> but I need to know how to incriment the nonce. :) that's all I'm looking for
816 2012-05-25 17:04:21 <luke-jr> it's the same regardless of endian
817 2012-05-25 17:04:36 <Glasswalker> not in Verilog, where I need to explicitly specify endianness of data
818 2012-05-25 17:04:38 <luke-jr> the last 32 bits of the 80 bytes
819 2012-05-25 17:05:06 <luke-jr> this isn't an endian issue
820 2012-05-25 17:05:10 <luke-jr> nonce is endian-free
821 2012-05-25 17:05:13 t7 has joined
822 2012-05-25 17:05:19 <luke-jr> you can do it in little endian or big endian, it doesn't matter
823 2012-05-25 17:05:33 <Glasswalker> right because you're incrimenting it. But I needed to know it's location inside the data struct ;)
824 2012-05-25 17:05:43 <Glasswalker> which your comment above answered ;)
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826 2012-05-25 17:05:48 <luke-jr> right, my point is that has nothing to do with endians :p
827 2012-05-25 17:06:04 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_hashing_algorithm
828 2012-05-25 17:06:07 <Glasswalker> unless as I asked originally, the whole header is being flipped
829 2012-05-25 17:06:44 <Glasswalker> if the whole 512bit block is being treated as a single 512bit number, versus individual bytes, versus 32bit fields or whatever
830 2012-05-25 17:06:57 <Glasswalker> that can move where the nonce lives in the 512bit data block
831 2012-05-25 17:07:02 <Glasswalker> that's why I was asking about endianness
832 2012-05-25 17:07:15 <graingert> does bitcoinJ verify blocks?
833 2012-05-25 17:07:24 <Glasswalker> so I'm likely just over complicating ;)
834 2012-05-25 17:07:43 <luke-jr> Glasswalker: SHA256 deals with 32-bit chunks
835 2012-05-25 17:07:59 <luke-jr> there is no 512-bit number in SHA256
836 2012-05-25 17:08:22 <Glasswalker> yes I know, but the data input is a 512bit block (which is then broken down, and then expanded into many 32bit words)
837 2012-05-25 17:08:53 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
838 2012-05-25 17:09:18 <luke-jr> graingert: glib is part of GNOME stack
839 2012-05-25 17:09:27 <luke-jr> graingert: and I want nothing to do with it
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841 2012-05-25 17:09:52 <Glasswalker> I've already written that part. But because I'm only implementing the single 512bit transform stage (not the full algorithm which pads, and breaks up the message into 512bit message blocks)
842 2012-05-25 17:10:18 <graingert> luke-jr: GLib was released as a separate library so other developers, those who did not make use of the GUI-related portions of GTK+, could make use of the non-GUI portions of the library without the overhead of depending on a full-blown GUI library.
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844 2012-05-25 17:10:30 <luke-jr> Glasswalker: the only thing that deals with 512-bit blocks is the padding, really, IIRC
845 2012-05-25 17:10:41 <luke-jr> graingert: glib *is* the overhead
846 2012-05-25 17:10:41 <Glasswalker> right
847 2012-05-25 17:10:47 <Glasswalker> but all default SHA code will pad
848 2012-05-25 17:10:48 <graingert> riiiigh
849 2012-05-25 17:10:49 <graingert> t
850 2012-05-25 17:10:58 <Glasswalker> none of them do only a single 512bit message block
851 2012-05-25 17:11:04 <graingert> either way you don't need it for telepathy qt
852 2012-05-25 17:11:07 <luke-jr> graingert: Qt Core is a separate library too, but it's still Qt
853 2012-05-25 17:11:09 <Glasswalker> the sha algorithm expects a 512bit message block as input
854 2012-05-25 17:11:09 <luke-jr> graingert: yes, you do
855 2012-05-25 17:11:21 <luke-jr> graingert: not only that, but it requires Qt be compiled as a slave to Glib
856 2012-05-25 17:12:34 <Glasswalker> so because I'm only dealing with a single sha message block (using a midstate from the first hash) I will be getting a 512bit data input which is the second message block (of the 1024bit pre-padded total header)
857 2012-05-25 17:13:06 drizztbsd has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
858 2012-05-25 17:13:46 <graingert> luke-jr: you only need it for telepathy-mission-control-5
859 2012-05-25 17:13:50 sgornick has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
860 2012-05-25 17:13:58 <graingert> and anything other than telepathy-sunshine
861 2012-05-25 17:14:03 <luke-jr> graingert: IIRC it's something to do with VoIP support
862 2012-05-25 17:14:13 <graingert> luke-jr: which is broken at best
863 2012-05-25 17:14:16 <luke-jr> â¦
864 2012-05-25 17:14:38 <graingert> but ignoring that you don't need telepathy-glib
865 2012-05-25 17:15:04 <graingert> someone needs to write a version of telepathy-mission-control without deps on glib
866 2012-05-25 17:15:10 <luke-jr> the only reason I care about Telepathy at all is for the phone support :p
867 2012-05-25 17:15:36 <luke-jr> there's already a real standard for mere IM
868 2012-05-25 17:16:22 <graingert> what do you mean as slave to Glib
869 2012-05-25 17:16:58 <luke-jr> graingert: using glib's main loop
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871 2012-05-25 17:17:13 <luke-jr> USE=glib
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878 2012-05-25 17:22:26 <Glasswalker> so the output of getwork is data, target, and hash1 correct? data is the last 16 bytes of the block header correct? (block header being 80bytes, and SHA256 only taking 512bit at a time, that leaves 16bytes of the header for the second chunk)
879 2012-05-25 17:22:33 <Glasswalker> just making sure I'm interpreting this correctly
880 2012-05-25 17:24:47 <Glasswalker> or is "data" the entire block header?
881 2012-05-25 17:24:56 <Glasswalker> looks like the entire block header on the satoshi client.
882 2012-05-25 17:26:50 <Glasswalker> so:
883 2012-05-25 17:27:11 <Glasswalker> miner does getwork. Gets back "data" value.
884 2012-05-25 17:28:01 <Glasswalker> takes data value as-is, rips out the first 512bits, hashes this, and that should equal hash1 (and provide a midstate)
885 2012-05-25 17:28:09 <luke-jr> Glasswalker: hash1 is gone
886 2012-05-25 17:28:14 <Glasswalker> right
887 2012-05-25 17:28:17 <Glasswalker> I'm just saying for reference
888 2012-05-25 17:28:35 <luke-jr> Glasswalker: data is the full block header, after being processed by SHA2's first few steps
889 2012-05-25 17:29:30 <Glasswalker> ?
890 2012-05-25 17:29:40 <Glasswalker> that I don't get...
891 2012-05-25 17:30:12 <Glasswalker> define "first few steps" according to the sha2 algorithm?
892 2012-05-25 17:33:01 <Glasswalker> In sha2 usually data comes in arbitrary size. It's got 1 bit appended, then padded with 0 up to modulo 512 minus 64bit for the original (unpadded) length.
893 2012-05-25 17:33:07 <Glasswalker> that is then split into 512bit chunks
894 2012-05-25 17:34:05 <Glasswalker> the first chunk the transform algorithm is primed with the K constants (64x 32bit words)
895 2012-05-25 17:34:27 TheSeven has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
896 2012-05-25 17:35:15 <Glasswalker> it's transformed, and the 8 32bit words are output for the hash
897 2012-05-25 17:35:41 <Glasswalker> then the next chunk does the same, adding each of the 8 32bit words to the previous chunks output
898 2012-05-25 17:35:45 <Glasswalker> and so on until you have a final hash
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902 2012-05-25 17:43:52 <Glasswalker> so when you say it's the full header but processed by the first few rounds of sha, what does that mean?
903 2012-05-25 17:43:59 <Glasswalker> is there documentation on that anywhere?
904 2012-05-25 17:44:16 <Glasswalker> an example, or breakdown of the format?
905 2012-05-25 17:45:40 <Glasswalker> ie: is it the first 256bit (hash1) concatenated with the last 16bytes of the header?
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924 2012-05-25 18:54:25 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gavinandresen opened pull request 1392 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1392>
925 2012-05-25 19:10:16 bitfoo has joined
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928 2012-05-25 19:30:41 <graingert> I totally read "new genesis" block before the title
929 2012-05-25 19:30:57 <graingert> nanotube: is it possible to pull out the title of the pull request from RSS?
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933 2012-05-25 19:36:13 <GTRsdk> most likely is possible
934 2012-05-25 19:36:51 * GTRsdk just can't remember the commands to do it
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939 2012-05-25 19:59:14 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: has anyone tested your Mac builds on 10.5 or 10.6 recently?
940 2012-05-25 19:59:25 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
941 2012-05-25 19:59:34 <luke-jr> vragnaroda: ping
942 2012-05-25 19:59:39 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: I'm running 10.6
943 2012-05-25 19:59:42 <vragnaroda> pong
944 2012-05-25 19:59:51 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: oh, ok. hmm
945 2012-05-25 20:00:41 t7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
946 2012-05-25 20:00:52 <splatster> I've noticed a small, pesky bug on OS X 10.7 with bitcoin-qt v0.6.2.2
947 2012-05-25 20:01:09 <luke-jr> splatster: does it have to do with showing the window?
948 2012-05-25 20:01:10 <graingert> you guys are going to need to be signed or something for mac builds?
949 2012-05-25 20:01:15 b4epoche has joined
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951 2012-05-25 20:01:30 <luke-jr> graingert: that's what I'm working ont
952 2012-05-25 20:01:32 <luke-jr> on*
953 2012-05-25 20:01:35 <graingert> kewl
954 2012-05-25 20:01:39 <splatster> luke-jr: Yup, when you click the app icon the window disappears until you click it again.
955 2012-05-25 20:01:45 <luke-jr> splatster: known & fixed in master
956 2012-05-25 20:01:49 <GTRsdk> For installation in a vanilla ML setup?
957 2012-05-25 20:02:00 <luke-jr> splatster: was the bug not there in 0.6.1 or 0.6.2 btw?
958 2012-05-25 20:02:08 <luke-jr> GTRsdk: ?
959 2012-05-25 20:02:26 <splatster> Nope, first time I've seen it was going from 0.6 to 0.6.2.2
960 2012-05-25 20:02:42 Joric has joined
961 2012-05-25 20:03:00 <luke-jr> oh, was probably introduced in 0.6.1 then
962 2012-05-25 20:03:18 <splatster> Also, the Command+M hotkey doesn't work to minimize the window.
963 2012-05-25 20:03:34 <GTRsdk> luke-jr: Mountain Lion which has GateKeeper, which only allows certain apps to run by default... is that what you're getting the signing for?
964 2012-05-25 20:04:00 <luke-jr> GTRsdk: ⦠no
965 2012-05-25 20:04:16 <splatster> I've got a paid Apple Mac dev program license, if someone needs me to sign something for Mountain Lion I can.
966 2012-05-25 20:04:19 <GTRsdk> oh okay
967 2012-05-25 20:04:54 traviscj has joined
968 2012-05-25 20:04:58 <luke-jr> splatster: does it support detached signatures?
969 2012-05-25 20:05:12 <splatster> Don't think so, no.
970 2012-05-25 20:05:17 <luke-jr> that is, a separate signature file
971 2012-05-25 20:05:22 <luke-jr> from the .app
972 2012-05-25 20:05:35 <luke-jr> or heck, even a separate signature file *in* the .app
973 2012-05-25 20:05:46 <splatster> The signature is generated at build time.
974 2012-05-25 20:05:51 <luke-jr> splatster: how?
975 2012-05-25 20:06:06 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
976 2012-05-25 20:06:08 <splatster> Not sure how it signs, but if you change the app the sig will be invalid.
977 2012-05-25 20:06:26 <luke-jr> splatster: can you make an example "signed" and "unsigned" pair?
978 2012-05-25 20:06:33 <luke-jr> identical except for the signature?
979 2012-05-25 20:06:57 <splatster> The app doesn't -need- to be signed to work in OS X 10.8
980 2012-05-25 20:07:43 <luke-jr> vragnaroda: can you test http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/code/bin-osx-bitcoind-v0.6.2.2.bz2
981 2012-05-25 20:07:56 <splatster> luke-jr: I can.
982 2012-05-25 20:08:00 <luke-jr> splatster: it'd be nice to have, though, if it enforces by default
983 2012-05-25 20:08:07 <luke-jr> splatster: you have what OSX ver?
984 2012-05-25 20:08:13 <splatster> 10.7
985 2012-05-25 20:08:52 <luke-jr> ok, but I already can test on 10.7 myself :P
986 2012-05-25 20:08:57 <splatster> ok
987 2012-05-25 20:09:13 <splatster> luke-jr: Are you on OS X right now?
988 2012-05-25 20:09:37 <luke-jr> splatster: I have a work laptop with OS X
989 2012-05-25 20:09:43 <luke-jr> splatster: I am building the binaries on Ubuntu
990 2012-05-25 20:10:06 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: what do you think about making -h work? :P
991 2012-05-25 20:10:48 <splatster> luke-jr: Go into Finder and right click any Apple or App Store app and go to show package contents, inside there you will see a folder called "_CodeSignature" which is what you're after
992 2012-05-25 20:11:07 <luke-jr> splatster: OK, so we need to find a way to add that to an existing app
993 2012-05-25 20:11:23 <luke-jr> splatster: can you research that? maybe Xcode makes logs of the command to sign?
994 2012-05-25 20:11:36 <vragnaroda> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'boost::interprocess::lock_exception' what(): boost::interprocess::lock_exception
995 2012-05-25 20:11:37 <splatster> Yup, lemme go see
996 2012-05-25 20:11:39 <vragnaroda> Abort trap
997 2012-05-25 20:11:49 <vragnaroda> (From the usage again)
998 2012-05-25 20:11:55 <luke-jr> vragnaroda: how about without --help?
999 2012-05-25 20:12:05 <luke-jr> I didn't touch boost yet, was hoping bdb works now
1000 2012-05-25 20:12:13 <vragnaroda> -daemon seems to be working.
1001 2012-05-25 20:12:16 <luke-jr> hmm
1002 2012-05-25 20:12:22 <luke-jr> FWIW, I use -printtoconsole for testing
1003 2012-05-25 20:12:44 <luke-jr> so it seems 10.6 doesn't support pthreads or something
1004 2012-05-25 20:13:08 <splatster> luke-jr: Nothing about the code signing jumps out at me from the build logs.
1005 2012-05-25 20:15:49 <vragnaroda> luke-jr: $ bitcoind -rpcuser=bitcoinrpc -rpcpassword=3NrBmJpMG65FgMezs3FZEfnWezxZDWieWVCtV3yQCLsS getblockcount
1006 2012-05-25 20:15:52 <vragnaroda> 18518
1007 2012-05-25 20:15:56 <luke-jr> splatster: maybe check into http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6896029/re-sign-ipa-iphone
1008 2012-05-25 20:15:59 <vragnaroda> Agh
1009 2012-05-25 20:16:04 <luke-jr> vragnaroda: fail
1010 2012-05-25 20:16:06 <vragnaroda> Eh, whatever, it seems to be working.
1011 2012-05-25 20:16:13 <luke-jr> vragnaroda: you posted your passwordâ¦
1012 2012-05-25 20:16:54 <vragnaroda> luke-jr: A password on a system that doesn't have a useful wallet. (But, no, I didn't mean to copypaste that.)
1013 2012-05-25 20:17:00 * luke-jr ponders a way to exercise boost::thread with v0.6.2.2
1014 2012-05-25 20:18:10 <luke-jr> vragnaroda: even on Linux and 10.7, --help segfaults, so maybe that's not a 10.6-specific problem
1015 2012-05-25 20:18:18 <vragnaroda> luke-jr: But, anyhoo, it's running, seemingly without problems.
1016 2012-05-25 20:18:20 <vragnaroda> Oh, lol
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1019 2012-05-25 20:20:20 <vragnaroda> (and the RPC password has been changed now, anyway :p)
1020 2012-05-25 20:20:52 <vragnaroda> ((I can't believe I did that (even though it was pretty much useless).))
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1027 2012-05-25 20:41:18 <luke-jr> ca0816152d91c929b51b2f644fcb9a69797a49fa is the first bad commit
1028 2012-05-25 20:41:26 <luke-jr> sipa: ^ why v0.6.2.2 segfaults on --help :P
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1031 2012-05-25 20:47:05 <luke-jr> hmm, master is fine tho
1032 2012-05-25 20:47:18 <luke-jr> guess I need to dig to figure out which backport to prioritize XD
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1037 2012-05-25 20:55:44 <Joric> ThomasV, i'm about to release an electrum plugin for both browsers ff: http://goo.gl/stgmY chrome: http://goo.gl/1Y7GW
1038 2012-05-25 20:56:09 <ThomasV> cool
1039 2012-05-25 20:57:00 <ThomasV> how does it work?
1040 2012-05-25 20:57:07 <Joric> just kidding hell knows how much time it will really take
1041 2012-05-25 20:57:26 <Joric> i'm planning only http so far
1042 2012-05-25 20:57:32 <ThomasV> heh, you got me :)
1043 2012-05-25 20:57:32 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1044 2012-05-25 20:58:11 <Joric> but really i learned a lot about browser extensions )
1045 2012-05-25 20:58:25 barmstrong has joined
1046 2012-05-25 20:59:07 <ThomasV> what did you learn?
1047 2012-05-25 21:00:17 <Joric> oh there's a lot of details
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1049 2012-05-25 21:02:14 <Joric> found out ff plugins don't need restart now if you use addon-sdk (aka jetpack)
1050 2012-05-25 21:03:00 <Joric> it's all xmlhttprequest / post at 8081 for now not sure i'll ever get to tcp sockets
1051 2012-05-25 21:03:22 <Joric> how many servers currently support http?
1052 2012-05-25 21:03:30 <Diablo-D3> Joric: a lot of plugins are using that now
1053 2012-05-25 21:04:12 barmstrong has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1054 2012-05-25 21:04:15 <ThomasV> Joric: all of them
1055 2012-05-25 21:04:37 <ThomasV> but I guess I should add supports for websockets
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1057 2012-05-25 21:05:05 <ThomasV> it would probably be faster
1058 2012-05-25 21:06:18 <Joric> ThomasV, did you get to proper json yet?
1059 2012-05-25 21:06:38 <ThomasV> for what?
1060 2012-05-25 21:06:58 <Joric> JSON.parse just says invalid character '
1061 2012-05-25 21:07:02 <Joric> no kidding
1062 2012-05-25 21:07:09 <ThomasV> for the wallet file?
1063 2012-05-25 21:07:22 <Joric> yeah i'm using a beautified version for now
1064 2012-05-25 21:07:47 <ThomasV> I did not change its format
1065 2012-05-25 21:08:02 <ThomasV> you said you were going to use ff's storage
1066 2012-05-25 21:08:47 <luke-jr> ThomasV: ' isn't a valid quoting character in JSON
1067 2012-05-25 21:09:45 <ThomasV> luke-jr: no it isn't
1068 2012-05-25 21:10:01 <Joric> yeah but i'm not sure about backward compatibility
1069 2012-05-25 21:10:44 <ThomasV> how so?
1070 2012-05-25 21:11:15 <Joric> didn't check if ast.literal_eval is able to parse a proper json
1071 2012-05-25 21:12:30 <ThomasV> that's a minor issue. I can use json.loads if necessary
1072 2012-05-25 21:14:01 <Joric> i decided to mimic the original ui will use the same i18n strings
1073 2012-05-25 21:14:20 Glasswalker has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1074 2012-05-25 21:14:45 <ThomasV> so your screenshot is your current ui?
1075 2012-05-25 21:15:09 <Joric> yes it's all real, semi-working extentions )
1076 2012-05-25 21:15:14 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1077 2012-05-25 21:15:21 <ThomasV> cool
1078 2012-05-25 21:16:34 <Joric> *extensions, one of them is, actually, an add-on )
1079 2012-05-25 21:17:15 <Joric> it's all twitter bootstrap got used to it heard some ppl already hate it
1080 2012-05-25 21:18:06 <Joric> there are three parts, popup window + options window + context menu
1081 2012-05-25 21:18:10 phma has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1082 2012-05-25 21:18:42 <Joric> could potentially get more auditory than satoshi's client ;)
1083 2012-05-25 21:19:17 <graingert> ThomasV: don't use WebSockets when EventSource will do better
1084 2012-05-25 21:19:50 <ThomasV> graingert: what is that?
1085 2012-05-25 21:19:52 <graingert> http://www.w3.org/TR/eventsource/
1086 2012-05-25 21:20:03 <graingert> To enable servers to push data to Web pages over HTTP or using dedicated server-push protocols, this specification introduces the EventSource interface.
1087 2012-05-25 21:20:45 <graingert> http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/eventsource/basics/
1088 2012-05-25 21:21:09 <ThomasV> ic
1089 2012-05-25 21:21:55 <ThomasV> .. moar work for me :_/
1090 2012-05-25 21:22:04 <graingert> less than WebSockets
1091 2012-05-25 21:22:46 <ThomasV> really? cool
1092 2012-05-25 21:22:55 <ThomasV> websockets are easy, iirc
1093 2012-05-25 21:23:37 <Joric> http is fine i'm mostly terrified by tcp sockets didn't really plan those in js
1094 2012-05-25 21:24:08 <Joric> chrome uses 'experemental' api for those, it's not even enabled by default
1095 2012-05-25 21:25:26 <graingert> also WebSockets basically needs SSL
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1097 2012-05-25 21:30:24 <graingert> ThomasV: websockets are for games
1098 2012-05-25 21:30:33 <ThomasV> ok
1099 2012-05-25 21:30:44 <graingert> where you really need two way coms
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1103 2012-05-25 21:31:05 <graingert> also you'll need an http server built for handling lots of long connections using event source
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1107 2012-05-25 21:42:17 <luke-jr> vragnaroda: found the segfault issue, and it does seem likely that it's related to your other error on --help too
1108 2012-05-25 21:42:28 <vragnaroda> Interesting.
1109 2012-05-25 21:42:31 <luke-jr> vragnaroda: no other issues?
1110 2012-05-25 21:42:58 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1111 2012-05-25 21:43:32 <vragnaroda> luke-jr: Seems to be working fine right now. It's still running.
1112 2012-05-25 21:43:59 <luke-jr> great
1113 2012-05-25 21:44:05 <luke-jr> now to see if I can get Qt to build <.<
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1160 2012-05-25 23:22:46 <splatster> .isdown blockexplorer.com
1161 2012-05-25 23:22:57 <pebbles> splatster: http://blockexplorer.com Is Down
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1165 2012-05-25 23:31:00 <Joric> why this tx is still not relayed ? https://blockchain.info/address/1JA3eXMdTwoZBvoK4goqbTF54mFSV8C3h2
1166 2012-05-25 23:31:05 <Joric> any ideas?
1167 2012-05-25 23:35:34 <gmaxwell> Joric: probably because one of its ancestors is not related.
1168 2012-05-25 23:35:39 <gmaxwell> re relayed.
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1171 2012-05-25 23:43:51 <luke-jr> )%*#(%#
1172 2012-05-25 23:43:59 <luke-jr> Qt doesn't have official 32-bit builds anymore
1173 2012-05-25 23:44:08 <luke-jr> and building it for Mac requires ObjC compiler -.-
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