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  9 2012-05-27 01:07:55 <DBordello> Is running the git tree suicide?
 10 2012-05-27 01:09:41 <gmaxwell> DBordello: it's mostly fine, but I don't use it with wallets that have non-trivial balances.
 11 2012-05-27 01:09:54 <gmaxwell> (other than in a read only capacity for testing)
 12 2012-05-27 01:10:05 <DBordello> hmm
 13 2012-05-27 01:10:16 <DBordello> Thanks
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 61 2012-05-27 03:48:18 <KingKatari> hey i have a question
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 63 2012-05-27 03:49:38 <KingKatari> can anyone who os good with php look over a poolserver frontend and tell me where i can find the coding for the PPLNS reward system cuz right now it is doing 200% PPS rate and i dont now why
 64 2012-05-27 03:49:39 <phantomcircuit> KingKatari, http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
 65 2012-05-27 03:49:43 <KingKatari> err know
 66 2012-05-27 03:49:57 <KingKatari> damn k key is sticking
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150 2012-05-27 10:51:22 <enquirer> can we use namecoin as address shortener for bitcoin?
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152 2012-05-27 10:52:24 <Eliel_> wouldn't that require that everyone who sends bitcoins to such a shortened address would need to run namecoin to be able to trust the result?
153 2012-05-27 10:54:13 <enquirer> not a big problem to incorporate both in the same client I guess
154 2012-05-27 10:55:07 <Eliel_> well, namecoin kind of does that already.
155 2012-05-27 10:55:43 <enquirer> how?
156 2012-05-27 10:56:00 <Eliel_> well, it's bitcoin with some extras bolted on running it's own blockchain
157 2012-05-27 10:56:23 <Eliel_> no reason it couldn't also run bitcoin's blockchain on the side :P
158 2012-05-27 10:56:51 <Eliel_> although, I don't think it has the BIP-16 change
159 2012-05-27 10:58:14 <Eliel_> so, it could perhaps be simpler to take the latest bitcoin and redo the namecoin mods.
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170 2012-05-27 11:54:36 <PK> My bitcoin client process about 5 blocks per minute when catching up with the chain. If I don't run bitcoin at least daily it can take hours to update to the newest block. Is that normal?
171 2012-05-27 11:55:00 <sipa> what hardware are you running it on?
172 2012-05-27 11:55:07 <sipa> in particular cpu/ram/disk
173 2012-05-27 11:55:20 <PK> CPU stays around 13% (on a quad core, so 50% of one core)
174 2012-05-27 11:55:51 <PK> ram = 5GB, OS win xp 64
175 2012-05-27 11:56:12 <sipa> and you're not running from an usb stick or something?
176 2012-05-27 11:56:18 <PK> The disk is my NAS, so it's 4 disk raid5 on a 1 gbps network
177 2012-05-27 11:56:24 <sipa> ah
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180 2012-05-27 11:56:57 <sipa> i think doing synchronous database updates on a network disk is asking for trouble
181 2012-05-27 11:57:00 <PK> Using various disk benchmarking tools shows that the NAS is about equal to my local disk.
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184 2012-05-27 11:57:29 <sipa> maybe in throughput, but that's not the limiting factor here
185 2012-05-27 11:58:38 Facefox has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
186 2012-05-27 11:59:28 <PK> sipa: I ran ATTO Disk Benchmark against the samba share and got up to 57MB/s write and 90MB/s read (transfer size: 512KB, Total length: 2GB). And initializing bitcoin (loading the full chain from disk) isn't very slow either. It's only updated from the network.
187 2012-05-27 12:00:32 <sipa> PK: and as i said, throughput is not your problem
188 2012-05-27 12:00:54 <sipa> but latency when doing synchronous operations is
189 2012-05-27 12:01:47 <PK> sipa: is there a way of keeping the wallet only on the NAS and the chain local? I start bitcoin with -datadir.
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191 2012-05-27 12:03:11 <PK> Or have the gui only connect to a bitcoind instance running on the NAS 24/7. That woud be quite cool. I compiled bitcoin for arm before, so it could run there.
192 2012-05-27 12:04:02 <sipa> yes and no - you can make the wallet a symlink to the actual file in the datadir
193 2012-05-27 12:04:35 <PK> I agree on linux, but I'm running windows xp here. Dunno how to do symlinks there.
194 2012-05-27 12:04:36 <sipa> or maybe better, make the datadir local, but blkindex.dat blk0001.dat and the database dir symlinks to corresponding places on the NAS mount
195 2012-05-27 12:04:44 <sipa> oh, no idea then
196 2012-05-27 12:05:01 <PK> feature request? :)
197 2012-05-27 12:05:26 <sipa> already on it; 0.7 or 0.8 will probably have support for wallet files independent from the database env
198 2012-05-27 12:06:14 <PK> nice, can you also split gui and server? To use the GUI alone with a remote server?
199 2012-05-27 12:07:10 <sipa> there are plans to aim for disconnectint wallet and blockchain - the GUI would be part of wallet system
200 2012-05-27 12:07:31 <sipa> but that's far more work, because of how things are built now
201 2012-05-27 12:08:55 <PK> you can compile the server without GUI already, and you have the RPC in place. Changing the GUI to use RPC instead of calling methods directly should do that trick. Might need some additional RPC commands to be added.
202 2012-05-27 12:09:06 <sipa> a lot more
203 2012-05-27 12:09:25 <sipa> rpc is not really the best way for communication between GUI and wallet/blockchain
204 2012-05-27 12:09:33 <sipa> as you need asynchronous callbacks e.g.
205 2012-05-27 12:11:39 <PK> Maybe there's a 3rd party GUI using RPC to access bitcoind? Do you know any from the top of your head?
206 2012-05-27 12:11:52 <sipa> spesmilo
207 2012-05-27 12:12:00 <sipa> (never tried it)
208 2012-05-27 12:13:05 <PK> thanks, giving it a try
209 2012-05-27 12:15:43 <luke-jr> working on Spesmilo convinced me RPC needs to be replaced someday :p
210 2012-05-27 12:19:05 <PK> luke-jr: do I need a patched bitcoind for that?
211 2012-05-27 12:19:38 <luke-jr> PK: for Spesmilo, no.
212 2012-05-27 12:19:49 <luke-jr> for replacing JSON-RPC, you'd need to write it yourself :P
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217 2012-05-27 12:20:35 <PK> luke-jr: I don't want to steal your work :) I mean Spesmilo because there is a patch.diff file.
218 2012-05-27 12:21:34 <luke-jr> sipa:
219 2012-05-27 12:21:36 <luke-jr>         // FetchInputs treats CDiskTxPos(1,1,1) as a special "refer to memorypool" indicator
220 2012-05-27 12:21:38 <luke-jr>         // Since we're just checking the block and not actually connecting it, it might not (and probably shouldn't) be on the disk to get the transaction from
221 2012-05-27 12:22:27 <luke-jr> PK: it's always been optional, and probably won't apply anymore
222 2012-05-27 12:27:34 <sipa> luke-jr: sounds good; it's simply because you know the transaction is in the memory pool, and it *should not* be on disk (which would imply being in a connected block, which is not possible before creating it)
223 2012-05-27 12:29:08 <PK> luke-jr: I can't connect to the server :( I used the same ip, user and password as I use with bitcoind on the command line. It works with bitcoind but not with Spesmilo.
224 2012-05-27 12:33:57 <luke-jr> sipa: did I misunderstand https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1246/files#r886376 ?
225 2012-05-27 12:34:42 <sipa> luke-jr: no, i did
226 2012-05-27 12:35:41 <luke-jr> k
227 2012-05-27 12:36:34 <sipa> any idea about the performance effect of checking created blocks?
228 2012-05-27 12:39:59 <luke-jr> shouldn't be significant, since both getwork and getmemorypool cache CBlock for redundant calls
229 2012-05-27 12:40:38 <luke-jr> diskless BDB is broken at rebase :/
230 2012-05-27 12:40:40 <luke-jr> Boost.Test framework internal error: unknown reason
231 2012-05-27 12:40:42 <luke-jr> make: *** [bitcoind] Error 200
232 2012-05-27 12:40:47 <luke-jr> no clue where to even begin fixing that
233 2012-05-27 12:41:18 <sipa> i merged 1245 and 1246 on master, and fixed conflicts
234 2012-05-27 12:41:26 <sipa> and afaik test_bitcoin worked without problems
235 2012-05-27 12:41:42 <luke-jr> O.o
236 2012-05-27 12:41:58 <sipa> let me try to rebase
237 2012-05-27 12:43:24 <luke-jr> rebase has the same net effect
238 2012-05-27 12:43:37 <sipa> i know
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240 2012-05-27 12:46:52 <sipa> luke-jr: what is that thing with rpc.cpp in that branch?
241 2012-05-27 12:47:04 <luke-jr> ?
242 2012-05-27 12:47:47 <sipa> http://pastebin.com/rXS409Ju
243 2012-05-27 12:49:21 <luke-jr> sipa: I fixed getwork from the moment of its creation
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245 2012-05-27 12:50:28 <luke-jr> sipa: ie, b354251's parent commit is the one that originally introduced getwork to JSON-RPC
246 2012-05-27 12:50:35 <sipa> ic
247 2012-05-27 12:50:51 <luke-jr> this way, I can merge it cleanly into all the stable branches without cherry-picking too
248 2012-05-27 12:53:12 <luke-jr> (the conflict was actually git's inability to follow the rename :/)
249 2012-05-27 12:55:25 <luke-jr> pushed my rebase, despite the test error
250 2012-05-27 13:01:37 <luke-jr> hmm
251 2012-05-27 13:01:49 <luke-jr> CDBEnv::EnvShutdown is pretty ugly
252 2012-05-27 13:03:41 <luke-jr> looks like the crash occurs only with a real client running ;)
253 2012-05-27 13:04:08 * luke-jr fixing
254 2012-05-27 13:05:58 <luke-jr> btw, any forum mods here?
255 2012-05-27 13:08:24 <luke-jr> sipa: OK, should be good now
256 2012-05-27 13:12:00 * luke-jr begins the process of identifying what else needs rebasing
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341 2012-05-27 19:27:42 <luke-jr> I propose that 1txn-miners are doing so to save on bandwidth…
342 2012-05-27 19:28:08 <luke-jr> if you have 5 kB/s upload, it delays your 500 kB blocks by almost 2 minutes
343 2012-05-27 19:29:16 <BlueMatt> who has 5kB/s upload?
344 2012-05-27 19:29:22 <BlueMatt> thats worse than dial up
345 2012-05-27 19:29:43 <BlueMatt> ok, well not quite, but still
346 2012-05-27 19:29:54 <BlueMatt> its ~dial up
347 2012-05-27 19:29:58 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: dialup users
348 2012-05-27 19:30:12 <BlueMatt> who is mining on dial up?
349 2012-05-27 19:30:16 <luke-jr> also consider that you want to upload the block to at least 8 peers
350 2012-05-27 19:30:31 <luke-jr> I bet the dialup miner ratio is greater than the dialup bitcoin user ratio
351 2012-05-27 19:30:43 <BlueMatt> why?
352 2012-05-27 19:30:54 <BlueMatt> I would say the opposite
353 2012-05-27 19:31:00 <luke-jr> because people aren't likely to pay for another broadband connection at some cold mining place
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356 2012-05-27 19:31:15 <BlueMatt> how many people mine at random remote locations?
357 2012-05-27 19:31:26 <sipa> does dialup still exist?
358 2012-05-27 19:31:34 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
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360 2012-05-27 19:31:49 <BlueMatt> and if they do, I would think they have a fairly large operation, and then broadband is a small fraction of what they pay for power
361 2012-05-27 19:31:57 <luke-jr> XD
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374 2012-05-27 20:31:58 <amiller> i'm trying to come up with a model for bitcoin that accounts for message delays
375 2012-05-27 20:32:12 <amiller> for example the proof in the bitcoin whitepaper implicitly assumes that new blocks are propagated instantly
376 2012-05-27 20:33:03 <amiller> this seems to be the main difference compared to traditional distributed systems theory papers, in which a worst-case bound for the message delay exists and is either a) known or b) unknown
377 2012-05-27 20:36:16 <amiller> i think it's the common sentiment that bitcoin is a byzantine-consensus system, but showing that it's so would be a good counter to complaints like this (ignore the part about checkpoints) http://www.links.org/?p=1183
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380 2012-05-27 20:40:23 <amiller> i'm basically trying to model a worst-case scenario like this: someone finds a new block, there's a maximum delay of D before everyone knows about it and is mining at that height or better, but up until time D the rest of the network is wasting effort or, worse, mining on a fork
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382 2012-05-27 20:43:34 <amiller> i've figured out how to express this problem as a two dimensional markov chain, one dimension is the height of the largest 'main chain' and the other dimension is the height of the largest 'fork' known by an adversary
383 2012-05-27 20:44:05 <amiller> but i have no idea how to analyze it. also i couldn't figure out how to describe this with anything simpler
384 2012-05-27 20:44:25 <splatster> There needs to be one or more nodes which each of the mining pools connect to to speed up block propagation between them.
385 2012-05-27 20:44:26 <amiller> maybe someone here knows more than i do about queuing theory or has thought about this puzzle already
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426 2012-05-27 23:31:01 <luke-jr> so… working on refactoring the transaction time code…
427 2012-05-27 23:31:23 <luke-jr> not sure how to handle the "system clock was temporarily way off for a while, but fixed now" case :/
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