1 2012-05-29 00:01:38 <gmaxwell> wladston: correct. if they happened to be connected to you at the right time.
   2 2012-05-29 00:02:47 <D34TH> you guys should pull lukes commits
   3 2012-05-29 00:02:59 <wladston> gmaxwell: ah, I understand now. blockchain.info tries to connect with everyone to know who creates all transactions.
   4 2012-05-29 00:03:23 <gmaxwell> wladston: bingo.
   5 2012-05-29 00:03:45 <gmaxwell> of course it's still just a guess. nodes do some relaying randomization which helps hide the origin.
   6 2012-05-29 00:04:24 <gmaxwell> and not all nodes listen.
   7 2012-05-29 00:04:34 <wladston> I would not relay anything with my ip in the clear if I wanted it to be private anyways
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  10 2012-05-29 00:06:43 <luke-jr> hmm
  11 2012-05-29 00:06:47 <gmaxwell> There are degrees of privacy.
  12 2012-05-29 00:07:02 <luke-jr> ironically, most of the time for txn_prio CreateNewBlock is in unmodified code :/
  13 2012-05-29 00:07:20 <gmaxwell> I don't do anything with bitcoin where I need privacy against powerful enemies. Though I also don't want random IRC trolls or inlaws knowing about the details of my every tranasction.
  14 2012-05-29 00:08:18 <splatster> If I were to use sendmany from RPC, should the "{address:amount,...}" part just be an array of addys as the keys and their amounts as the values?
  15 2012-05-29 00:08:46 <gmaxwell> '{"address":amount,"address":amount,...}'
  16 2012-05-29 00:08:56 <splatster> In text form?
  17 2012-05-29 00:08:56 <gmaxwell> JSON cares about which quotes you use.
  18 2012-05-29 00:09:15 <gmaxwell> The python json stuff wants a dictionary.
  19 2012-05-29 00:09:36 <splatster> What about in php?
  20 2012-05-29 00:09:39 <luke-jr> 0.021s Collecting; 0.001 Dependencies; 0.456 Adding
  21 2012-05-29 00:09:48 <gmaxwell> also the whole syntax is ./bitcoind sendmany "" '{"address":amount,"address":amount,...}'  from the cli— first argument is an account name.
  22 2012-05-29 00:09:54 <gmaxwell> splatster: no clue.
  23 2012-05-29 00:10:14 <luke-jr> splatster: it's a JSON Object, not a String nor Array
  24 2012-05-29 00:10:48 <splatster> Ah, okay
  25 2012-05-29 00:10:54 graingert has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  26 2012-05-29 00:11:27 <splatster> so just json_encode(array) yes?
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  29 2012-05-29 00:16:00 <luke-jr> …
  30 2012-05-29 00:18:32 <doublec> splatster: yes
  31 2012-05-29 00:19:04 <doublec> splatster: assuming array is something like: array("address" => amount, "address" => amount) etc
  32 2012-05-29 00:19:26 t7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  33 2012-05-29 00:19:41 <splatster> ya
  34 2012-05-29 00:24:21 guruvan has joined
  35 2012-05-29 00:24:54 <KingKatari> Hey
  36 2012-05-29 00:25:27 <KingKatari> I need to know how do i merge something into bitcoind so that it is bip22 compatible
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  47 2012-05-29 01:02:14 <D34TH> someone should compile me the latest git of bitcoin because i cant
  48 2012-05-29 01:02:15 <D34TH> D:
  49 2012-05-29 01:02:52 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
  50 2012-05-29 01:03:24 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
  51 2012-05-29 01:09:57 <luke-jr> 91% of the time spent building the block (txn_prio) is DoInputs :x
  52 2012-05-29 01:11:04 <luke-jr> D34TH: I'll probably be doing another next-test after #936 is pulled
  53 2012-05-29 01:12:31 <D34TH> wouldnt it be #1355
  54 2012-05-29 01:12:32 <D34TH> ?
  55 2012-05-29 01:12:52 <D34TH> luke-jr?
  56 2012-05-29 01:12:55 <luke-jr> D34TH: ?
  57 2012-05-29 01:13:12 <D34TH> id like 1355 over 936
  58 2012-05-29 01:13:40 <KingKatari> luke
  59 2012-05-29 01:13:48 <luke-jr> sure, but #936 is already accepted, whereas #1355 has no real-world implementations using it yet
  60 2012-05-29 01:13:50 <KingKatari> i have been talking to ya in your channel
  61 2012-05-29 01:14:27 <D34TH> just because noones using it doesnt mean it isnt useful
  62 2012-05-29 01:14:35 <luke-jr> D34TH: I wouldn't mind #1355 being pulled immediately (I've done theoretical testing with curl), but #936 is the one I'm mostly waiting for
  63 2012-05-29 01:14:50 <D34TH> question
  64 2012-05-29 01:14:54 <D34TH> why do they say ACK
  65 2012-05-29 01:14:57 <luke-jr> and the #1240 collection, but that's got some performance issues I need to figure out
  66 2012-05-29 01:15:18 <luke-jr> D34TH: in this context, ACK = approved
  67 2012-05-29 01:15:22 <D34TH> oh
  68 2012-05-29 01:15:28 <D34TH> commited to memory
  69 2012-05-29 01:15:29 <D34TH> thanks
  70 2012-05-29 01:15:35 <D34TH> i was like dafuq
  71 2012-05-29 01:15:48 <luke-jr> generally means the person has reviewed and tested the code
  72 2012-05-29 01:16:02 <luke-jr> and has no theoretical problems with it being merged
  73 2012-05-29 01:16:25 <D34TH> heh 1246
  74 2012-05-29 01:16:49 <D34TH> 1246+1355 = funtime?
  75 2012-05-29 01:19:12 <luke-jr> the sole purpose of 1245/1246 is to support 1240
  76 2012-05-29 01:19:52 <D34TH> needs a current network traffic counter
  77 2012-05-29 01:19:54 <D34TH> D:
  78 2012-05-29 01:20:24 <luke-jr> D34TH: hire someone to write one
  79 2012-05-29 01:20:29 <D34TH> tbtc
  80 2012-05-29 01:20:31 <D34TH> :D
  81 2012-05-29 01:20:39 <D34TH> because i have .05 btc
  82 2012-05-29 01:21:41 <D34TH> i think 1306 would be good with 1389
  83 2012-05-29 01:22:20 <D34TH> that way you could use tor and normal
  84 2012-05-29 01:22:22 <luke-jr> D34TH: if you mean TNBTC, we have a rule that they're valueless
  85 2012-05-29 01:22:25 <D34TH> bigger network
  86 2012-05-29 01:22:31 <D34TH> i figured as much
  87 2012-05-29 01:23:18 <luke-jr> btw, you want to watch this for an update: https://bitcointalk.org/?topic=82610
  88 2012-05-29 01:23:53 <D34TH> do you have one with testnet3?
  89 2012-05-29 01:23:56 <KingKatari> hey luke can i get a link for that branch you talked about
  90 2012-05-29 01:24:57 <luke-jr> D34TH: not yet
  91 2012-05-29 01:25:14 <D34TH> thats really the only feature i want to play with
  92 2012-05-29 01:25:14 <D34TH> lol
  93 2012-05-29 01:25:32 <luke-jr> KingKatari: it's been mentioned 4 times in the last 15 minutes. use your head.
  94 2012-05-29 01:26:33 <D34TH> gmp_bip?
  95 2012-05-29 01:27:02 <luke-jr> ;)
  96 2012-05-29 01:27:03 <KingKatari> i am talking about the gmp_bip one
  97 2012-05-29 01:27:16 <KingKatari> the only link i seen is a bitcointalk one
  98 2012-05-29 01:27:19 <KingKatari> thats it
  99 2012-05-29 01:27:45 <D34TH> https://github.com/luke-jr/bitcoin/tree/gmp_bip
 100 2012-05-29 01:28:14 <luke-jr> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gmp_bip
 101 2012-05-29 01:30:58 <KingKatari> found it
 102 2012-05-29 01:31:06 <KingKatari> ohh lol you posted it
 103 2012-05-29 01:31:07 <KingKatari> lol
 104 2012-05-29 01:31:36 <luke-jr> …
 105 2012-05-29 01:31:41 <KingKatari> hey if i build from the src that you have on the site i can still use the current blockchain and wallet i have right
 106 2012-05-29 01:31:53 <luke-jr> you need to merge it, not build it.
 107 2012-05-29 01:31:58 <KingKatari> ok
 108 2012-05-29 01:32:49 <luke-jr> KingKatari: please read http://git-scm.com/book/en/ before you shoot your toe off
 109 2012-05-29 01:34:20 <KingKatari> so just download Luke-Jr-luke-jr-bitcoin-gmp_bip.tar.gz and merge it in
 110 2012-05-29 01:34:28 * luke-jr facepalms.
 111 2012-05-29 01:34:31 <luke-jr> NO
 112 2012-05-29 01:34:42 <luke-jr> read. the. stupid. book.
 113 2012-05-29 01:35:30 <KingKatari> k
 114 2012-05-29 01:36:39 guruvan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 115 2012-05-29 01:37:56 <lianj> book?
 116 2012-05-29 01:38:26 <lianj> oh the git book link. lol
 117 2012-05-29 01:38:27 <D34TH> novel
 118 2012-05-29 01:38:41 <D34TH> luke-jr says: RTFM
 119 2012-05-29 01:39:10 <lianj> ha, thats what my tshirt says ;)
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 124 2012-05-29 01:54:29 <splatster> is <fromaccount> in sendmany required, or can I just use "*"?
 125 2012-05-29 01:54:54 <luke-jr> splatster: * works
 126 2012-05-29 01:55:04 <splatster> okay, great
 127 2012-05-29 01:55:28 wladston has left ()
 128 2012-05-29 01:55:43 <splatster> and how would the client handle an address having an amount of 0 in the sendmany array?
 129 2012-05-29 01:56:06 <luke-jr> might send 0 to it
 130 2012-05-29 01:56:08 <luke-jr> dunno
 131 2012-05-29 01:56:19 <splatster> well then let's see
 132 2012-05-29 01:56:28 * splatster craws back into his coding hole
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 138 2012-05-29 02:17:28 <BlueMatt> D34TH: you can always find the latest git version of bitcoind+bitcoin-qt for windows and linux at http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/ws/
 139 2012-05-29 02:18:04 <D34TH> have my children now.
 140 2012-05-29 02:18:30 tadhgzilla has joined
 141 2012-05-29 02:18:32 <D34TH> last build apr 26
 142 2012-05-29 02:18:33 <D34TH> :/
 143 2012-05-29 02:18:48 <BlueMatt> wtf...goddamit
 144 2012-05-29 02:18:54 <BlueMatt> lemme go fix it (again)
 145 2012-05-29 02:20:35 <luke-jr> XD
 146 2012-05-29 02:21:08 tadhgzilla has left ()
 147 2012-05-29 02:21:33 BlueMattBot has quit ()
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 149 2012-05-29 02:23:50 BlueMattBot has joined
 150 2012-05-29 02:24:10 <BlueMatt> building
 151 2012-05-29 02:24:21 <D34TH> :D
 152 2012-05-29 02:26:28 <D34TH> bitcoin in progress
 153 2012-05-29 02:26:29 <D34TH> :D
 154 2012-05-29 02:26:44 Mad7Scientist has joined
 155 2012-05-29 02:26:47 <Joric> rather in regress
 156 2012-05-29 02:27:17 <D34TH> bluematt
 157 2012-05-29 02:27:26 <D34TH> of you can make -j4 on the linux
 158 2012-05-29 02:27:32 <D34TH> why not make -j4 on the windows
 159 2012-05-29 02:27:35 <BlueMatt> what?
 160 2012-05-29 02:27:36 <Joric> there just was a 18k sell price went down to 5.02
 161 2012-05-29 02:29:28 <D34TH> http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/316/console
 162 2012-05-29 02:29:49 <D34TH> make -j4
 163 2012-05-29 02:29:57 <D34TH> make -j2 -f makefile.linux-mingw DEPSDIR=/mnt/mingw bitcoind.exe
 164 2012-05-29 02:30:24 * luke-jr wonders why we turned on those warnings when there's still so many left
 165 2012-05-29 02:30:51 <D34TH> lukes new push: disable warnings
 166 2012-05-29 02:31:07 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: there werent any warnings for quite a while
 167 2012-05-29 02:31:22 <BlueMatt> D34TH: because its on a vm with only 2 cores and other things run on that vm?
 168 2012-05-29 02:31:24 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: because they were disabled/hidden
 169 2012-05-29 02:31:39 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: no, even when we had all warnings on
 170 2012-05-29 02:31:41 <D34TH> then why j4
 171 2012-05-29 02:31:54 <splatster> luke-jr: FYI, it just fails when sendmany sees an addy with 0
 172 2012-05-29 02:32:01 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: code doesn't grow warnings :p
 173 2012-05-29 02:32:17 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: when people add code that gets warnings it does
 174 2012-05-29 02:32:47 <BlueMatt> we had sign comparison warnings on for the past month, and we didnt have any errors for most of that time
 175 2012-05-29 02:37:14 mtve has joined
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 177 2012-05-29 02:40:31 TheSeven has joined
 178 2012-05-29 02:44:48 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #316: FAILURE in 20 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/316/
 179 2012-05-29 02:44:48 <BlueMattBot> * phil.kaufmann: remove HTML code around "Wallet" (displayed on overview page) and use Qt tags for font settings
 180 2012-05-29 02:44:49 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: gettransaction RPC for non-wallet transactions
 181 2012-05-29 02:44:49 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: -loadblock to load from an external blk000?.dat file
 182 2012-05-29 02:44:50 <BlueMattBot> * phil.kaufmann: change button tooltip on sign message page for copy to clipboard as it was missleading
 183 2012-05-29 02:44:50 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Bump version numbers for 0.6.1rc1
 184 2012-05-29 02:44:51 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Windows build: compile against openssl 1.0.1b
 185 2012-05-29 02:44:51 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Bump win32.deps version number for new openssl
 186 2012-05-29 02:44:52 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Update openssl version
 187 2012-05-29 02:44:52 <BlueMattBot> * laanwj: Fix critical UI performance issue (#1154)
 188 2012-05-29 02:44:53 <BlueMattBot> * gavinandresen: Check earlier for blocks with duplicate transactions. Fixes #1167
 189 2012-05-29 02:44:53 <BlueMattBot> * phil.kaufmann: remove unused typedef in serialize.h
 190 2012-05-29 02:44:54 <BlueMattBot> * phil.kaufmann: remove references to bitcoin-wx from comment in init.cpp
 191 2012-05-29 02:44:54 <BlueMattBot> * phil.kaufmann: fix compiler warning "suggest explicit braces to avoid ambiguous "else"
 192 2012-05-29 02:44:55 <BlueMattBot> * phil.kaufmann: fix compiler warning "suggest parentheses around assignment used as truth
 193 2012-05-29 02:44:55 <BlueMattBot> * phil.kaufmann: small translation-file handling / loading changes and re-work comments to be clearer
 194 2012-05-29 02:44:56 <BlueMattBot> * phil.kaufmann: fix DEPENDPATH in the project file, as json has no include sub-dir and src was in twice
 195 2012-05-29 02:44:56 <BlueMattBot> * laanwj: remove duplicate definition of SecureString in util.h
 196 2012-05-29 02:45:08 <BlueMattBot> * laanwj: simplified qrcode icon that scales gracefully to 16x16
 197 2012-05-29 02:45:08 <BlueMattBot> * phil.kaufmann: renamed qrcodedialog.ui window title to "QR-Code Dialog" and changed window size to the minimum values Qt Creator allows me to set
 198 2012-05-29 02:45:09 <BlueMattBot> * phil.kaufmann: change text on message.ui from "Copy to Clipboard" to "Copy Signature" and
 199 2012-05-29 02:45:09 <BlueMattBot> * phil.kaufmann: changed cursor for selectable text on the about dialog to IBeamCursor and removed an unused tag
 200 2012-05-29 02:45:10 <BlueMattBot> * greg: Bugfix: %-12I64d is not valid and causes the parameter to be skipped, use %12"PRI64d" instead
 201 2012-05-29 02:45:10 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: Add extra asserts to addrman
 202 2012-05-29 02:45:11 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: Fix addrman crashes
 203 2012-05-29 02:45:11 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: Bugfix: store source address in addrman
 204 2012-05-29 02:45:12 <BlueMattBot> * laanwj: Hide UI immediately after leaving the main loop.
 205 2012-05-29 02:45:12 <BlueMattBot> * phil.kaufmann: move many overviewpage settings from code to ui XML-file / removed ability to translate "0 BTC" and "123.456 BTC" as this is only used as preview in the Qt Designer anyway / set mouse cursor to IBeam for selectable labels
 206 2012-05-29 02:45:13 <BlueMattBot> * phil.kaufmann: passphrasedialog: change dialog title to "Passphrase Dialog" / remove style-sheet for bold font and use Qt Designer option / remove an unused label default-text and remove an obsolete clear()'
 207 2012-05-29 02:45:13 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: Prevent stuck download: correct solution
 208 2012-05-29 02:45:14 <BlueMattBot> * laanwj: Move back setPlaceholderText to code, from xml, as this broke building with Qt 4.6
 209 2012-05-29 02:45:14 <BlueMattBot> * Matt Corallo: Update changelog to match reality.
 210 2012-05-29 02:45:15 <BlueMattBot> * laanwj: Make user action more straightforward in address book
 211 2012-05-29 02:45:15 <BlueMattBot> * luke-jr+git: Bitcoin-Qt: Remove redundant tooltip on optional transaction fee. Fixes #1218
 212 2012-05-29 02:45:16 <BlueMattBot> * greg: Increase client version to 0.6.99
 213 2012-05-29 02:45:16 <BlueMattBot> * luke-jr+git: Add block "confirmations" to getblock, mainly for identifying orphans
 214 2012-05-29 02:45:19 <D34TH> type /sp
 215 2012-05-29 02:45:21 <D34TH> :D
 216 2012-05-29 02:45:24 <BlueMatt> yay megaspam...
 217 2012-05-29 02:45:28 <BlueMattBot> * phil.kaufmann: add 2 comments to transactionview.cpp to ensure no one moves setPlaceholderText to the XML file (after this all parts in the code that use setPlaceholderText have this comment
 218 2012-05-29 02:45:28 <BlueMattBot> * phil.kaufmann: add placeholder text to address field (like in sendcoins) and set focus to address field on opening messagepage or "Clear All" / consolidate gotoMessagePage() to 1 function / rename windowTitle to "Sign Message Dialog"
 219 2012-05-29 02:45:29 <BlueMattBot> * phil.kaufmann: optionsdialog.cpp: rename "Start Bitcoin on window system startup" to "Start Bitcoin on system login" and move it to Main / hide "Window" Options on Mac as there are currently none available / remove an unused variable / add Alt-Shortcuts where they were missing / allow translation of "default"
 220 2012-05-29 02:45:29 <BlueMattBot> * jgarzik: CTxMemPool: consolidate two frequently-printed debug.log lines into one
 221 2012-05-29 02:45:30 <BlueMattBot> * jgarzik: CTxMemPool::accept(): do not log FetchInputs failure redundantly
 222 2012-05-29 02:45:30 <BlueMattBot> * phil.kaufmann: add code to open (display) debug.log on Windows with the associated application and add a button to the Information page in the Debug console
 223 2012-05-29 02:45:31 <BlueMattBot> * phil.kaufmann: guiutil.cpp/.h: fix a -Wreorder compiler warning and make constructor for ToolTipToRichTextFilter explicit
 224 2012-05-29 02:45:31 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: Fix version numbers of archive builds
 225 2012-05-29 02:45:32 <BlueMattBot> * phil.kaufmann: if there is no current block number available display N/A on totalBlocks label, instead of 0, which can not ever be true
 226 2012-05-29 02:45:32 <BlueMattBot> * laanwj: Add missing #include for GetDataDir
 227 2012-05-29 02:45:33 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: IPv6 node support
 228 2012-05-29 02:45:33 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: Preliminary support for Tor/I2P hidden services
 229 2012-05-29 02:45:34 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: Limited relaying/storing of foreign addresses
 230 2012-05-29 02:45:34 <D34TH> D:
 231 2012-05-29 02:45:34 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: Add -noproxy to circumvent proxy for some network
 232 2012-05-29 02:45:35 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: Use NET_ identifiers in CNetAddr::GetGroup()
 233 2012-05-29 02:45:35 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: Add -blocknet to prevent connections to a given network
 234 2012-05-29 02:45:36 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: Keep port information for local addresses
 235 2012-05-29 02:45:36 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: Separate listening sockets, -bind=<addr>
 236 2012-05-29 02:46:03 <D34TH> IRC notifier plugin: Sending notification to suspect: ubpd34th
 237 2012-05-29 02:46:07 <D34TH> wat
 238 2012-05-29 02:46:22 <BlueMatt> it pms everyone it thinks may have caused it
 239 2012-05-29 02:46:31 * luke-jr smacks BlueMatt
 240 2012-05-29 02:46:35 <D34TH> but thats not my ircname
 241 2012-05-29 02:46:36 <BlueMatt> when it doesnt lock up and stop polling properly it works well...
 242 2012-05-29 02:46:46 <BlueMatt> wait, it pmd you that?
 243 2012-05-29 02:46:51 <D34TH> no
 244 2012-05-29 02:47:08 <BlueMatt> ok
 245 2012-05-29 02:47:43 <D34TH> you got a sha256 error
 246 2012-05-29 02:47:47 <BlueMatt> hmm...part of that may be the build system itself, Ill shut off jenkins and look at it in the morning
 247 2012-05-29 02:48:06 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
 248 2012-05-29 02:48:13 * BlueMatt -> bed
 249 2012-05-29 02:48:59 <D34TH> D:
 250 2012-05-29 02:49:31 <D34TH> you can always find the latest git version of bitcoind+bitcoin-qt for windows and linux
 251 2012-05-29 02:49:32 <D34TH> lies
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 277 2012-05-29 04:10:20 <rsingh> How complex can my bitcoin wallet encryption key be?
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 294 2012-05-29 05:20:23 <osmosis> rsingh, i tried to look it up but didnt see any answers. Maybe ill put it on stackexchange
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 299 2012-05-29 05:28:45 <rsingh> Thank you osmosis
 300 2012-05-29 05:29:06 <osmosis> rsingh, http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/3864/how-complex-can-my-bitcoin-wallet-encryption-key-be
 301 2012-05-29 05:29:12 <osmosis> no answers yet
 302 2012-05-29 05:29:37 <Diablo-D3> the correct answer is
 303 2012-05-29 05:29:42 <Diablo-D3> "as complex as it needs to be"
 304 2012-05-29 05:30:24 <rsingh> Diablo-D3: Is the program not limited in its allowance of length or complexity?
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 307 2012-05-29 05:31:05 <rsingh> If I wanted to use a password of some 2048 characters, with characters and numerals from foreign alphabets the world over, would it reject such a password?
 308 2012-05-29 05:31:13 kingkatari1 is now known as KingKatari
 309 2012-05-29 05:31:24 <Diablo-D3> Im pretty sure its unicode safe
 310 2012-05-29 05:31:32 <Diablo-D3> ask gmaxwell or sipa
 311 2012-05-29 05:32:31 <rsingh> Hopefully they'll just respond on stackexchange
 312 2012-05-29 05:33:04 <Diablo-D3> why would they?
 313 2012-05-29 05:34:14 <rsingh> Perhaps to support the free exchange of information in a public forum, such that if another person has the same question, they may find the answer without asking anyone else.
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 317 2012-05-29 05:37:39 <Diablo-D3> rsingh: yes, but that'd require the people who know the answer to waste time answering the question
 318 2012-05-29 05:37:54 <Diablo-D3> the act of answering is not free and predisposes the condition of knowing the question exists
 319 2012-05-29 05:40:35 <rsingh> Your mention of their names in proximity to the question negates that probability by a certain margin.  In any case, thank you for your suggestion.
 320 2012-05-29 05:42:16 <Diablo-D3> rsingh: btw, the easiest way to find out if this works is to test it
 321 2012-05-29 05:42:30 Z0rZ0rZ0r has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 322 2012-05-29 05:43:40 <osmosis> or look at the code
 323 2012-05-29 05:44:28 RainbowDashh has joined
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 325 2012-05-29 05:46:30 <osmosis> search for Passphrase in  https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/wallet.cpp
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 328 2012-05-29 05:52:48 <rsingh> Thanks osmosis.  Looks like it uses gpg standards, which means it's fairly limitless
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 333 2012-05-29 05:59:12 <osmosis> when i create a new receiving address in bitcoin-qt 0.6.2-beta, it creates it in the list without even highlighting it, so I have to scroll through and find it before I can copy it to my clipboard.
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 413 2012-05-29 08:20:02 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: rebroad reopened pull request 1395 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1395> || rebroad opened pull request 1395 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1395>
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 436 2012-05-29 10:58:39 <SomeoneWeird> https://github.com/bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-server/issues/73
 437 2012-05-29 10:58:41 <SomeoneWeird> Anyone know about this?
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 477 2012-05-29 12:56:49 <egecko> re
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 499 2012-05-29 13:43:41 <TimothyA1> *** glibc detected *** /usr/lib/bitcoin/bitcoind: malloc(): smallbin double linked list corrupted: 0x00000000036c7c10 ***
 500 2012-05-29 13:45:24 <sipa> which version?
 501 2012-05-29 13:45:56 <TimothyA1> does the bitcoin version from the ubuntu repository show the version correctly?
 502 2012-05-29 13:46:03 <TimothyA1> gimme about 4 hours while it starts up so I can check
 503 2012-05-29 13:46:25 <sipa> no, but if it doesn't, it is 0.6.2
 504 2012-05-29 13:46:36 <sipa> 4 hours :S
 505 2012-05-29 13:46:41 <TimothyA1> yeah
 506 2012-05-29 13:46:48 <sipa> are you running this on a 386?
 507 2012-05-29 13:46:50 <gmaxwell> Hopefully you're not being serious?
 508 2012-05-29 13:46:54 <TimothyA1> for just loading the blockchain on an machine with 8GB DDR3 and i7 processor
 509 2012-05-29 13:46:55 Turingi has joined
 510 2012-05-29 13:47:07 <sipa> what disk?
 511 2012-05-29 13:47:09 <TimothyA1> well, 4 hours is perhaps exagerating, but it's painfully excruciatingly long
 512 2012-05-29 13:47:12 t7 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 513 2012-05-29 13:47:21 <TimothyA1> sipa: high-speed NAS, so they say
 514 2012-05-29 13:47:43 <TimothyA1> I just know that litecoin exhibits the same long-load times
 515 2012-05-29 13:47:54 t7 has joined
 516 2012-05-29 13:48:05 <sipa> right, putting it on a network filesystem is a bad idea
 517 2012-05-29 13:48:18 <TimothyA1> Bitcoin version vCLIENT_VERSION_MAJOR.CLIENT_VERSION_MINOR.CLIENT_VERSION_REVISION.CLIENT_VERSION_BUILD-g8ff1873-beta
 518 2012-05-29 13:48:18 <gmaxwell> TimothyA1: did you happen to purchase that nas from an oxy-moron who works for military intelligence?
 519 2012-05-29 13:48:21 <gmaxwell> :)
 520 2012-05-29 13:48:38 <TimothyA1> gmaxwell: vps, not much choice in what gets used for the disks
 521 2012-05-29 13:49:03 <gmaxwell> Six seconds on my i7 systems. But yes, thats an area that needs improvement.
 522 2012-05-29 13:49:22 <sipa> 5 minutes on my vps
 523 2012-05-29 13:49:27 <gmaxwell> crazy.
 524 2012-05-29 13:49:42 <sipa> slow IOPS i guess
 525 2012-05-29 13:50:12 <sipa> thankfully, i only restart the bitcoind there every few months
 526 2012-05-29 13:51:03 <sipa> anyway, that double free is worrysome
 527 2012-05-29 13:51:17 <sipa> which kind of RPC commands do you send there?
 528 2012-05-29 13:51:30 <TimothyA1> me?
 529 2012-05-29 13:51:33 <TimothyA1> getinfo()
 530 2012-05-29 13:51:36 <sipa> yes
 531 2012-05-29 13:51:41 <TimothyA1> but it's painfully slow at replying, too
 532 2012-05-29 13:52:07 <sipa> getinfo tries to create a block
 533 2012-05-29 13:52:21 <gmaxwell> it's not a double free, it's malloc arena corruption I think.
 534 2012-05-29 13:52:34 <TimothyA1> oh hey, it loaded faster this time
 535 2012-05-29 13:52:40 <TimothyA1>  block index          451337ms
 536 2012-05-29 13:52:44 <gmaxwell> TimothyA1: we mean normally, e.g. what was going on at the time of the crash?
 537 2012-05-29 13:52:49 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
 538 2012-05-29 13:52:56 <TimothyA1> gmaxwell: well, I wouldn't know :P
 539 2012-05-29 13:53:15 <gmaxwell> TimothyA1: Can you guess?
 540 2012-05-29 13:53:20 <gmaxwell> Does this node mine?
 541 2012-05-29 13:53:24 <TimothyA1> no, it does not
 542 2012-05-29 13:53:29 <gmaxwell> does it send funds?
 543 2012-05-29 13:53:31 <TimothyA1> yes
 544 2012-05-29 13:53:34 <TimothyA1> and receive
 545 2012-05-29 13:53:43 <TimothyA1> send/receive funds, getinfo()
 546 2012-05-29 13:53:46 <TimothyA1> that's about all it does
 547 2012-05-29 13:53:51 <gmaxwell> so you call getinfo / listtransactions ?
 548 2012-05-29 13:54:03 <gmaxwell> and sendtoaddress ?
 549 2012-05-29 13:54:04 smtmnyz_ is now known as smtmnyz
 550 2012-05-29 13:54:15 <sipa> do you use accounts?
 551 2012-05-29 13:54:17 <TimothyA1> gmaxwell: yes
 552 2012-05-29 13:54:18 <TimothyA1> sipa: no
 553 2012-05-29 13:55:04 <sipa> hmm
 554 2012-05-29 13:55:06 <sipa> not good
 555 2012-05-29 13:55:23 <gmaxwell> we've had an issue opened and unresolved on some heap corruption producing the same error: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/944
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 566 2012-05-29 14:25:12 <BlueMatt> I give up, Im not rebasing cblockstore again, its too much of a mess with some of the latest merges...Im gonna recode it from the ground up (for, what, the 4th time now?)
 567 2012-05-29 14:26:31 <sipa> BlueMatt: maybe you can try to avoid code moving in the pull request, only change class/method names
 568 2012-05-29 14:27:15 <sipa> that should make rebasing easier (though i hope no more rebases will be necessary)
 569 2012-05-29 14:27:15 <BlueMatt> yea Ill probably do that this time
 570 2012-05-29 14:27:44 <BlueMatt> though thats rarely the major issue, its just decisions I made based on where the code /was/ that no longer make sense
 571 2012-05-29 14:28:11 <gmaxwell> Sign that the decision wasn't excellent perhaps.
 572 2012-05-29 14:29:10 <BlueMatt> its more of minor optimizations/cleaning up apis when there is no performance impact, that now effect performance because some feature of the old api is now used that wasnt used before
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 582 2012-05-29 14:50:50 <user_> Hi, is far way of have address with expire time
 583 2012-05-29 14:50:54 <user_> ?
 584 2012-05-29 14:51:26 <user_> address that i can't send coins after a specific date
 585 2012-05-29 14:52:54 <gmaxwell> No. That isn't possible.
 586 2012-05-29 14:53:25 <gmaxwell> Generally you should just use addresses only once, and provide it right before usage, this removes many of the reasons you might want to expire one.
 587 2012-05-29 14:54:47 <user_> what if a merchant want the customer not send coins after a specific date?
 588 2012-05-29 14:55:28 <luke-jr> user_: you can automate sending it back
 589 2012-05-29 14:55:37 <gmaxwell> gah.
 590 2012-05-29 14:55:39 <gmaxwell> No you can't.
 591 2012-05-29 14:55:50 <user_> hum
 592 2012-05-29 14:55:54 <luke-jr> <gmaxwell> Dispute the non-determinism of the 'smart time' I like these criteria a lot. <-- huh?
 593 2012-05-29 14:56:35 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: apparently half awake, revised to say 'in spite of'  ... It's non-determinstic in that if you resync with a restored wallet you'll get a totally different ordering.
 594 2012-05-29 14:57:34 <gmaxwell> (I'm too sleep deprived to do any code review or testing atm. so it didn't get an ack, only moral support)
 595 2012-05-29 14:57:51 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: no, because the wallet stores the smart time <.<
 596 2012-05-29 14:58:02 <gmaxwell> Notice the word 'restored'.
 597 2012-05-29 14:58:16 <gmaxwell> (and yes, storing it is a grand idea.
 598 2012-05-29 14:58:17 <gmaxwell> )
 599 2012-05-29 14:58:37 <gmaxwell> If I saw a better way to do it I would have suggested it. I didn't and I like the described behavior.
 600 2012-05-29 15:00:10 <user_> gmaxwell: i see it on your wiki page: Ability to mark keys as compromised and enable autosweeping of inputs that are sent to them
 601 2012-05-29 15:00:38 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: oh, I see what you mean. yeah, that's pretty unavoidable (and already the case)
 602 2012-05-29 15:00:55 <user_> but if my key is compromissed is because i don't have the private key
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 604 2012-05-29 15:01:37 <user_> so how to autosweepink keys that i don't have the private key
 605 2012-05-29 15:01:42 <gmaxwell> user_: thats not the same thing though— thats something the holder of a key can do. There is no way for someone who isn't the holder of a key to do that.
 606 2012-05-29 15:02:14 <user_> doesn't make sense so
 607 2012-05-29 15:02:28 <gmaxwell> someone who just knows your address can't tell if you have the private key or not.  This is why things should be using something like https://gist.github.com/1237788
 608 2012-05-29 15:04:36 <user_> ok
 609 2012-05-29 15:06:39 <user_> gmaxwell: will be possible have in the client something like: don't send coins after day 5. The user can send but the link say you shouldn't
 610 2012-05-29 15:07:39 <user_> the link user clicked have an expire time suggesting to not send after a specific time
 611 2012-05-29 15:08:47 <gmaxwell> The URI scheme doesn't currently have a way to specify a time limit, but I suppose that could be added.
 612 2012-05-29 15:09:58 <user_> example: if the user try to construct a transaction by clicking on a uri scheme with expire time. i think the client should refuse to send the coins after a specific date
 613 2012-05-29 15:09:59 <graingert> mmmm uri bloat
 614 2012-05-29 15:12:11 <gmaxwell> It doesn't sound completely crazy to me.
 615 2012-05-29 15:13:10 <user_> ok
 616 2012-05-29 15:18:52 <user_> hi, crazy question: with tablet or notebook... with gps, is it possible with uri scheme i specify the location where i did the payment, and after see this informations on the client?
 617 2012-05-29 15:18:55 <helo> so a web app could send an email with a URI, and only have to listen on the corresponding address for a finite period of time...
 618 2012-05-29 15:19:06 <helo> sounds like a good idea to me
 619 2012-05-29 15:20:51 <user_> So i could see on a map the places i did payments
 620 2012-05-29 15:21:31 <user_> something like foursquare of my payments
 621 2012-05-29 15:23:24 <helo> anything is possible, but you have to weight the usefulness against the cost to implementors. i suspect the 'expire time' is worth it, but i don't see how the GPS location would be useful outside of a few novelty applications
 622 2012-05-29 15:25:29 <user_> gps location is just to the user see for example: in a year what was the places i did bitcoin payments
 623 2012-05-29 15:25:43 <user_> kind of a hobby
 624 2012-05-29 15:26:02 <user_> map hobby
 625 2012-05-29 15:26:36 <user_> not something very important
 626 2012-05-29 15:26:57 <user_> just ideas for bitcoin clients devs
 627 2012-05-29 15:26:59 <helo> that kind of thing could be added to mobile phone bitcoin apps without being added to the URI spec (so without burdening all client developers)
 628 2012-05-29 15:27:21 <helo> so every time you make a payment, it logs the current GPS location of the phone in the app
 629 2012-05-29 15:29:20 <user_> i think can be uri spec. so i could see the info on any client, not only mobiles
 630 2012-05-29 15:29:40 <user_> but ok
 631 2012-05-29 15:29:51 <user_> i'm just a newbie
 632 2012-05-29 15:30:02 <helo> not a bad idea :)
 633 2012-05-29 15:30:19 <helo> but /probably/ not likely to gain consensus to the extent to get it added to the URI spec
 634 2012-05-29 15:31:20 <helo> considering the 'cost to implementors' is a high priority to the devs
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 645 2012-05-29 15:45:03 <graingert> user_: just use RDF
 646 2012-05-29 15:45:23 <graingert> tbh RDF should be used for the temporal parts
 647 2012-05-29 15:49:04 <graingert> there shouldn't really be a need for anything more than an address
 648 2012-05-29 15:49:13 <graingert> everything else is bloat
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 659 2012-05-29 16:12:38 <Eliel> this pull doesn't apply cleanly on 6.2.0, does anyone know if it depends on any code changes done after 6.2.0 release? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1386/files
 660 2012-05-29 16:14:43 <luke-jr> Eliel: you mean 0.6.2? :P
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 662 2012-05-29 16:15:38 <Eliel> umm, yes
 663 2012-05-29 16:18:04 <helo> using RDF for everything is equivalent to allowing arbitrary variable/value pairs in the URI, but not requiring support for any of them, and not having any consensus on what a particular variable is used for?
 664 2012-05-29 16:18:22 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: rebroad opened pull request 1396 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1396>
 665 2012-05-29 16:18:38 <helo> so a human will read and interpret the values, and construct the transaction accordingly
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 668 2012-05-29 16:31:04 <D34TH> yeay after sleeping on it i got another error
 669 2012-05-29 16:31:04 <D34TH> http://pastebin.com/xfQ7Hy9V
 670 2012-05-29 16:31:04 <D34TH> still the same thing
 671 2012-05-29 16:31:04 <D34TH> src/qt/transactiondesc.cpp:247: error: variable 'CTxDB txdb' has initializer but
 672 2012-05-29 16:31:05 <D34TH>  incomplete type
 673 2012-05-29 16:31:06 <D34TH> this hates me
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 675 2012-05-29 16:37:53 <gmaxwell> damn you jeff for starting that braindead thread.
 676 2012-05-29 16:38:04 <gmaxwell> rebroad: There is _no_ single txn block issue.
 677 2012-05-29 16:38:22 <luke-jr> (nor is free-txn relay limits pro-miner)
 678 2012-05-29 16:39:28 * luke-jr would almost put rebroad in the diki bucket sometimes, except that he seems to have potential to learn <.<
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 683 2012-05-29 16:41:37 <gmaxwell> 1.73% single txn blocks implies 10.47 seconds of processing latency to get txn added after a block was found, which sounds basically reasonable with the current software.
 684 2012-05-29 16:42:54 <Eliel> it's that slow to process txn?
 685 2012-05-29 16:43:42 Skaag_ is now known as Skaag
 686 2012-05-29 16:44:26 <gmaxwell> Eliel: it certantly can be if you're taking a disk rotation for every input.
 687 2012-05-29 16:44:27 <BlueMatt> no, if I read that right, it takes, on average, 10.47 seconds for miners to get new txes to add to new blocks after a block comes out
 688 2012-05-29 16:44:34 <D34TH> alright time to make a windows vm with qt in it specifically for bitcoin so i dont have any dep issues with mingw
 689 2012-05-29 16:44:42 <BlueMatt> D34TH: jenkins built
 690 2012-05-29 16:44:50 <BlueMatt> I just hadnt updated openssl
 691 2012-05-29 16:44:56 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: not just get.. but to get them added to the blocks they produce, build the hash tree, etc.
 692 2012-05-29 16:45:01 <BlueMatt> yea
 693 2012-05-29 16:45:17 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I suspect fetchinputs is the slowest part actually
 694 2012-05-29 16:45:59 <gmaxwell> well on a non-ssd fetching a single input will take several times the disk rotational latency.
 695 2012-05-29 16:46:08 <gmaxwell> unless it happens to still be in cache.
 696 2012-05-29 16:46:20 <luke-jr> right now, I think we're fetching all the inputs twice actually
 697 2012-05-29 16:46:26 <luke-jr> or maybe just in my txn_prio branch <.<
 698 2012-05-29 16:46:30 <Eliel> ah, right, it still checks every transaction in the new block, even the ones that were already checked?
 699 2012-05-29 16:46:42 <BlueMatt> I wrote this, but only tested it on tmpfs, if anyone wants to benchmark it on spinning disk, it would be interesting: https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/commit/b2c66029244cfc4081739800aa013a37dc045b19
 700 2012-05-29 16:46:56 <BlueMatt> (addresses the slow fetchinputs part of block checking)
 701 2012-05-29 16:47:32 <BlueMatt> that said, its based on old-cblockstore
 702 2012-05-29 16:48:33 <D34TH> what was the issue
 703 2012-05-29 16:48:34 <D34TH> how does one download from it
 704 2012-05-29 16:49:34 <D34TH> bluematt how does one download from jenkins
 705 2012-05-29 16:49:37 <BlueMatt> D34TH: grab bitcoin-qt.exe or bitcoind.exe from http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/ws/
 706 2012-05-29 16:50:34 <D34TH> ahh i see it
 707 2012-05-29 16:51:27 <luke-jr> 17% of listening nodes secure against CVE-2012-2459
 708 2012-05-29 16:54:35 <D34TH> why is it saying out of sync
 709 2012-05-29 16:54:35 <D34TH> all of my rage
 710 2012-05-29 16:58:03 <bonks> is there a way to throttle bandwidth on bitcoind-qt?
 711 2012-05-29 16:58:25 <gmaxwell> bonks: just don't listen and you shouldn't have any particular need to throttle.
 712 2012-05-29 16:58:40 <D34TH> why does the wallet keep falling out of sync
 713 2012-05-29 16:58:40 <D34TH> on the testnet
 714 2012-05-29 16:58:41 <D34TH> oh, because it cant connect to irc
 715 2012-05-29 16:58:48 <BlueMatt> bonks: do it on your network stack, or on your router
 716 2012-05-29 16:59:01 <gmaxwell> D34TH: old testnet is basically completely broken.
 717 2012-05-29 16:59:13 <gmaxwell> thats why we've reset it in 0.7.0
 718 2012-05-29 16:59:16 <bonks> gmaxwell: actually i want to maximize my vps node bandwidth, which I connect to from my desktop, but only getting about 50kB/s
 719 2012-05-29 16:59:35 <D34TH> yea, i got the latest git on windows
 720 2012-05-29 17:00:10 <D34TH> it seems to fail on connecting to irc
 721 2012-05-29 17:00:10 <D34TH> because its trying to ipv6 the irc connection and windows isnt liking that at all
 722 2012-05-29 17:00:10 <D34TH> "oh you want to irc on ipv6? no."
 723 2012-05-29 17:00:18 <gmaxwell> sipa: ^
 724 2012-05-29 17:00:31 <BlueMatt> I was under the impression irc had finally been disabled by default...
 725 2012-05-29 17:00:35 <BlueMatt> if its not, can we finally do that?
 726 2012-05-29 17:00:38 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: testnet.
 727 2012-05-29 17:00:52 <BlueMatt> ok, can we do it for mainnet now then?
 728 2012-05-29 17:00:59 <gmaxwell> It is disabled for mainnet.
 729 2012-05-29 17:01:05 <BlueMatt> ohhh
 730 2012-05-29 17:01:05 <gmaxwell> Has been for quite some time.
 731 2012-05-29 17:01:11 <BlueMatt> its only enabled for testnet, makes sense
 732 2012-05-29 17:01:21 <gmaxwell> right, keeps the code working and it's more useful for testnet.
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 736 2012-05-29 17:01:38 <bonks> also when using "connect=IP" in bitcoin.conf, this is the only node my client connects to, is there a way to append nodes to the automatically detected ones?
 737 2012-05-29 17:01:38 <BlueMatt> yep, makes sense
 738 2012-05-29 17:01:45 <BlueMatt> plus we dont have testnet dnsseeds
 739 2012-05-29 17:01:50 <gmaxwell> bonks: addnode
 740 2012-05-29 17:02:35 <bonks> are there security issues with connecting to only one node though?
 741 2012-05-29 17:02:52 <BlueMatt> yes
 742 2012-05-29 17:02:54 <gmaxwell> bonks: is it your node?
 743 2012-05-29 17:03:01 <gmaxwell> If so, then no.
 744 2012-05-29 17:03:16 <gmaxwell> Unless you expect to DOS or isolate yourself.
 745 2012-05-29 17:03:34 <bonks> gmaxwell: it is my node
 746 2012-05-29 17:03:38 <BlueMatt> well yea, but if you dont 100% trust the node you are -connect ing to, then no
 747 2012-05-29 17:03:56 <bonks> ok, i'm using it like a proxy
 748 2012-05-29 17:04:13 <gmaxwell> Thats fine, even prudent.
 749 2012-05-29 17:04:18 <D34TH> i had to noirc and then addnode
 750 2012-05-29 17:04:18 <D34TH> but my linux one is uploading very very quick
 751 2012-05-29 17:04:19 <D34TH> but we are already 55k blocks in
 752 2012-05-29 17:04:19 <D34TH> lol
 753 2012-05-29 17:04:32 <gmaxwell> D34TH: on testnet? hm?
 754 2012-05-29 17:04:56 <D34TH> 52779 blocks remaining
 755 2012-05-29 17:04:56 <D34TH> :D
 756 2012-05-29 17:04:56 <D34TH> yep
 757 2012-05-29 17:05:15 <gmaxwell> nah, you're getting bogus data from old nodes or your not on new testnet.
 758 2012-05-29 17:05:32 <gmaxwell>    "blocks" : 6853,
 759 2012-05-29 17:07:59 <D34TH> 7 active connections in client but only 4 in its irc channel
 760 2012-05-29 17:07:59 <D34TH> others must be having the same issue as me
 761 2012-05-29 17:07:59 <D34TH> i should write a script to start bitcoin testnet after grabbing all the ip addrs in the testnet3 channel
 762 2012-05-29 17:08:02 <D34TH> thoughts?
 763 2012-05-29 17:08:27 <gmaxwell> D34TH: I don't see what you think there is an issue?
 764 2012-05-29 17:08:55 <helo> can difficulty increase or decrease by a certain amount each regarget?
 765 2012-05-29 17:09:05 <gmaxwell> helo: 4x.
 766 2012-05-29 17:09:11 <helo> either way?
 767 2012-05-29 17:09:15 <gmaxwell> Correct.
 768 2012-05-29 17:09:19 <helo> thanks
 769 2012-05-29 17:09:29 <gmaxwell> (asymmetry creates neat issues, as seen by some of the altcoins)
 770 2012-05-29 17:09:34 <gmaxwell> D34TH: I mean, getting a bogus block count is just cosmetic.
 771 2012-05-29 17:10:59 <D34TH> why me
 772 2012-05-29 17:10:59 <D34TH> ill just grab the blockchain from my linux node
 773 2012-05-29 17:11:00 <D34TH> can never be easy
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 776 2012-05-29 17:13:46 <gmaxwell> D34TH: I think you're spazzing for no reason.
 777 2012-05-29 17:13:48 <gmaxwell> Whats the issue?
 778 2012-05-29 17:14:03 <D34TH> meh this will be a quicker blockchain download
 779 2012-05-29 17:14:03 <D34TH> 5 mbps
 780 2012-05-29 17:14:03 <D34TH> :D
 781 2012-05-29 17:14:05 <D34TH> oh it crashed
 782 2012-05-29 17:14:08 <D34TH> 11dbexception
 783 2012-05-29 17:14:43 <D34TH> sec let me check the log
 784 2012-05-29 17:15:51 <D34TH> __db_meta_setup: C:\Users\D34TH\AppData\Roaming\Bitcoin\testnet3\blkindex.dat: unexpected file type or format
 785 2012-05-29 17:18:18 <gmaxwell> you can't copy the databases from running nodes.
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 787 2012-05-29 17:19:03 <D34TH> ponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 788 2012-05-29 17:19:03 <D34TH> whoops
 789 2012-05-29 17:19:03 <D34TH> file unknown has LSN 2/8562196, past end of log at 1/28
 790 2012-05-29 17:19:06 <D34TH> fixed it
 791 2012-05-29 17:19:07 <D34TH> had to copy the database
 792 2012-05-29 17:19:22 <gmaxwell> yes, because you copied an unclean node. You're quite likely still corrupted.
 793 2012-05-29 17:19:30 <gmaxwell> don't ever copy blkindex anymore.
 794 2012-05-29 17:19:40 <gmaxwell> use --loadblock=blk000.dat
 795 2012-05-29 17:20:16 <gmaxwell> of course, if you'd just left it alone you probably would have already been done considering that the whole testnet chain is like 5mbytes.
 796 2012-05-29 17:22:03 <D34TH> i didnt
 797 2012-05-29 17:22:03 <D34TH> i had to copy the database folder
 798 2012-05-29 17:22:03 <D34TH> still says im out of sync and need 40k blocks
 799 2012-05-29 17:23:26 <rebroad> why is an orphan tx considered an ERROR?
 800 2012-05-29 17:24:28 <D34TH> gmaxwell should i delete the chain on that node?
 801 2012-05-29 17:24:38 <gmaxwell> D34TH: stop.
 802 2012-05-29 17:25:00 <gmaxwell> D34TH: Take a breath.
 803 2012-05-29 17:25:00 <D34TH> ok:(
 804 2012-05-29 17:25:17 <gmaxwell> D34TH: the block count is incorrect. If you have 6853 blocks you are in sync.
 805 2012-05-29 17:25:32 <D34TH> its just cosmetic
 806 2012-05-29 17:25:36 <gmaxwell> Right.
 807 2012-05-29 17:25:59 <gmaxwell> However, in all that dancing you might have corrupted your database. I recommend deleting it just in case.
 808 2012-05-29 17:26:33 <D34TH> deleted
 809 2012-05-29 17:27:25 <sipa> D34TH: no ipv6 peer disovery via irc
 810 2012-05-29 17:27:39 <sipa> but you can use irc to find your own ipv6 address
 811 2012-05-29 17:27:40 <D34TH> it tried to connect to irc bia ipv6
 812 2012-05-29 17:28:09 <D34TH> windows loled at me D:
 813 2012-05-29 17:29:08 <D34TH> ok it finished with the blockchain
 814 2012-05-29 17:30:05 <sipa> you cannot copy the blockchain files *at all* unless you use -detachdb
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 819 2012-05-29 17:39:34 <D34TH> thats weird my linux node only has 550 blocks
 820 2012-05-29 17:39:39 <D34TH> but nine connections
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 824 2012-05-29 17:42:49 <rebroad> would anyone know if it's possible to rebase without make recompiing all the files again?
 825 2012-05-29 17:43:22 <sipa> al make only recompiles changed files
 826 2012-05-29 17:43:33 <sipa> or files with changed dependencies
 827 2012-05-29 17:43:33 <rebroad> a.
 828 2012-05-29 17:43:34 <rebroad> ,
 829 2012-05-29 17:43:36 <rebroad> al?
 830 2012-05-29 17:43:42 <sipa> -al
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 832 2012-05-29 17:43:57 <rebroad> sipa, what do I type instead of "make"?
 833 2012-05-29 17:44:06 <sipa> make
 834 2012-05-29 17:44:17 <rebroad> it's recompiling everything after a rebase..
 835 2012-05-29 17:44:32 <rebroad> even though only 1 or 2 files should have changed...
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 837 2012-05-29 17:44:47 <sipa> if the rebase changes an essential header file, almost everything will need to be rebuilt
 838 2012-05-29 17:45:19 <rebroad> yeah, net.h was probably one of the files... it's a pain that so much needs recompiling from that change... makes me want to move stuff out of net.h and into main.cpp!
 839 2012-05-29 17:45:34 <sipa> better move it to net.cpp
 840 2012-05-29 17:45:55 <sipa> net.h actually is only of the worst offenders left
 841 2012-05-29 17:45:58 <rebroad> well, it's things in main.cpp that call it..
 842 2012-05-29 17:46:03 <rebroad> e.g. AskFor
 843 2012-05-29 17:46:06 <sipa> so?
 844 2012-05-29 17:46:28 <rebroad> so.. that's where the code is more easily moved to
 845 2012-05-29 17:46:34 <sipa> you can call functions from other .cpp files
 846 2012-05-29 17:46:42 <sipa> if they are in headers
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 850 2012-05-29 17:59:12 <zzop> Hey if I keep a backup of my wallet.dat and I create new receiving addresses in the meantime, is it necessary for me to re-backup that wallet.dat in order to have a secure storage of incoming cash?
 851 2012-05-29 17:59:42 <zzop> Sorry if that's an awkward way to ask the question: Do new receiving addresses change the wallet.dat file?
 852 2012-05-29 18:03:31 <sipa> zzop: the file contains 100 "future keys"
 853 2012-05-29 18:03:51 <sipa> so you need a backup every 100 transactions/getnewaddress'es
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 861 2012-05-29 18:13:26 <jamesstanley> Does anyone know how to change currency on the Mt. Gox websocket API?
 862 2012-05-29 18:13:48 <copumpkin> I think you just query a different URL don't you?
 863 2012-05-29 18:13:54 <BlueMatt> ask #mtgox ?
 864 2012-05-29 18:13:54 <copumpkin> I don't think you can switch inline
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 866 2012-05-29 18:14:14 <jamesstanley> copumpkin: for the HTTP API, yes; I don't know what to do for websockets though
 867 2012-05-29 18:14:16 <jamesstanley> BlueMatt: thanks, I'll try that
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 869 2012-05-29 18:23:04 <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/security.html
 870 2012-05-29 18:23:15 <luke-jr> ^ handy
 871 2012-05-29 18:23:47 <rebroad> if I have MAX_OUTBOUND_NODES set to 8, but all of them are stuck, and I want to allow a max of 8 PLUS nStuck where nStuck is the number of stuck nodes, where might be the best place in the code to place this?
 872 2012-05-29 18:24:30 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: gitian-updater on win32 would fix a ton of that, imho
 873 2012-05-29 18:24:47 <sipa> rebroad: define "stuck" ?
 874 2012-05-29 18:25:19 <rebroad> sipa, as in blocks were being downloaded from them, but now they've all paused.
 875 2012-05-29 18:25:32 <sipa> that has nothing to do with the node
 876 2012-05-29 18:25:44 <sipa> it's just the result of not asking them
 877 2012-05-29 18:25:56 <rebroad> sipa, no, they've been asked, and they were transferring blocks
 878 2012-05-29 18:25:58 <rebroad> but they didn't complete
 879 2012-05-29 18:26:02 <luke-jr> rebroad: that doesn't happen
 880 2012-05-29 18:26:08 <rebroad> i.e. they stuck mid-block
 881 2012-05-29 18:26:14 <rebroad> luke-jr, it's happening now
 882 2012-05-29 18:26:14 <sipa> so the connection broke?
 883 2012-05-29 18:26:23 <rebroad> sipa, no, the connection is still there
 884 2012-05-29 18:26:25 <luke-jr> rebroad: only because you don't have a real internet connection
 885 2012-05-29 18:26:35 <rebroad> luke-jr, I'm using a proper connection today
 886 2012-05-29 18:26:54 <sipa> do they.still send anything?
 887 2012-05-29 18:27:06 <rebroad> sipa, no
 888 2012-05-29 18:27:11 <gmaxwell> rebroad: pehaps we should invent a new protocol for people on networks that suck (I'm only half kidding)
 889 2012-05-29 18:27:29 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: like Electrum's?
 890 2012-05-29 18:27:31 <rebroad> today I'm using a wifi connection in a bar, which seems reliable
 891 2012-05-29 18:27:45 <luke-jr> seems not very reliable to me
 892 2012-05-29 18:27:57 <rebroad> it's only bitcoin that's not working..
 893 2012-05-29 18:27:57 <sipa> well, reliable protocols are useful certainly
 894 2012-05-29 18:27:58 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: well, like using airhook or whatever the heck mosh uses as the underlying transport.
 895 2012-05-29 18:28:01 <rebroad> which is why I'm trying to code to fix it
 896 2012-05-29 18:28:14 <gmaxwell> TCP is basically ... not terribly useful on sufficiently lossy connections.
 897 2012-05-29 18:28:20 <rebroad> ok, one node just 104ed...
 898 2012-05-29 18:28:33 <rebroad> Nodes=8: AskedFor=5, WaitingFor=5, Receiving=4, BlockShy=1, BlockStuck=4
 899 2012-05-29 18:29:05 <sipa> rebroad: i plan to modify the connection logic to try a new connection every N minutes, and replace one outgoing connection slot when that succeeds
 900 2012-05-29 18:29:15 <sipa> maybe that would help as well
 901 2012-05-29 18:29:22 <rebroad> this means vNode.size is 8, 5 have been had a getblocks 0 sent to them, 5 are waiting for blocks following a getdata block, 4 have started sending blocks, one ignored the getdata block, and all four downloading have become stuck.
 902 2012-05-29 18:30:13 <zzop> sipa: Thanks (delayed). That's so awesome.
 903 2012-05-29 18:31:41 <gmaxwell> rebroad: perhaps you should start proxying your bitcoin over http://airhook.ofb.net/  (if you want to use it you may want this patch: https://people.xiph.org/~greg/airproxy.patch.gz which I think fixes a crash bug in airhook bit its been so long that I don't recall)
 904 2012-05-29 18:31:42 <rebroad> I'm using the build in my ParallelBlockDownload branch
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 907 2012-05-29 18:46:53 <rebroad> gmaxwell, hmmm, looks interesting, thanks. I've been using tor so far instead of that, but today, using the wifi in this cafe, I didn't think I would need it here... it's obviously not just my home connection.
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 910 2012-05-29 18:49:52 <RedEmerald> gmaxwell: Warning: Airhook is a defunct project, no longer maintained, never really implemented properly in the first place. The idea doesn't even really make sense any more -- modern wireless networks are much faster and include link level retransmission and congestion control. This page is kept here for historical reference purposes only.
 911 2012-05-29 18:50:30 <RedEmerald> not so sure that it would help
 912 2012-05-29 18:51:00 <gmaxwell> Yea, the author got upgraded wireless, but he's incorrect.
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 914 2012-05-29 18:51:16 <gmaxwell> There are still lots of networks that suck, as rebroad apparently knows.
 915 2012-05-29 18:51:29 <gmaxwell> The continued need for such things is what motivated mosh. (which is awesome btw)
 916 2012-05-29 18:51:32 <rebroad> luke-jr, what was that graph you posted a bit earlier? 82.25% insecure?
 917 2012-05-29 18:51:47 <luke-jr> rebroad: yes
 918 2012-05-29 18:51:55 <gmaxwell> RedEmerald: and software doesn't stop working just because its author lost interest in it. (esp software in portable C :) )
 919 2012-05-29 18:51:58 <rebroad> what is insecure?
 920 2012-05-29 18:52:11 <sipa> rebroad: running a vulnerable version
 921 2012-05-29 18:52:20 <RedEmerald> the "never really implemented properly in the first place" is more what i was referring to
 922 2012-05-29 18:52:37 <rebroad> vulnerable to what?
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 924 2012-05-29 18:53:30 <sipa> any known vulnerability
 925 2012-05-29 18:54:16 <sipa> the latest being 0.6.0
 926 2012-05-29 18:54:35 <rebroad> if 0.6.0 an insecure one?
 927 2012-05-29 18:54:54 <rebroad> "is
 928 2012-05-29 18:55:10 <sipa> yes
 929 2012-05-29 18:55:14 <sipa> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81749.0
 930 2012-05-29 18:55:20 <rebroad> I read something about needing 0.6.2 to fix a vulnerability, but I'm using the latest upstream master and it's showing as 0.6.1
 931 2012-05-29 18:55:30 <RedEmerald> gmaxwell: mosh does look nifty
 932 2012-05-29 18:57:08 <sipa> rebroad: yes, master and 0.6.2 both branched off 0.6.1
 933 2012-05-29 18:57:54 <sipa> but don't worry, master has no known vulnerabilities (though it is obviously way too less tested to make any statement about its security)
 934 2012-05-29 18:57:58 <rebroad> sipa, ah... so should I be working off master or 0.6.2?
 935 2012-05-29 18:58:23 <sipa> if you're developing, use master of course
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 937 2012-05-29 18:58:43 <sipa> if you're running a production system, use 0.6.2
 938 2012-05-29 18:59:15 <rebroad> ah ok.. and if I do pull requests, they need to be rebased from master not 0.6.2 I guess otherwise it makes it hard to merge, right?
 939 2012-05-29 18:59:59 <rebroad> no need to answer that, I'm fairly sure that was too obvious to need to answer...
 940 2012-05-29 19:00:47 <sipa> indeed
 941 2012-05-29 19:01:11 <rebroad> hmmm. my stuck nodes seem to 104 disconnect after ~1200 seconds from becoming stuck
 942 2012-05-29 19:02:45 zzop has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
 943 2012-05-29 19:03:12 <rebroad> does anyone know if there's a way to add a merge in between the commits I have from the rebase of master?
 944 2012-05-29 19:03:38 <rebroad> i.e. not at the end, but maybe at the beginning, or a couple of commits along
 945 2012-05-29 19:03:50 <rebroad> or is that something I specify when I do the interactive rebase?
 946 2012-05-29 19:04:12 <rebroad> it's just that I had to edit it when I merged it, and then do the same thing again when I rebased it... seemed a bit silly to have to do it twice..
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 952 2012-05-29 19:14:05 <rebroad> ho hum.... another git question... anyone know how I can delete a remote branch?
 953 2012-05-29 19:14:21 <sipa> git push <remote> :<branch>
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 959 2012-05-29 19:41:16 <BlueMatt> sipa: why does dns not appear to want to resolve to ipv6 even with -onlynet=ipv6?
 960 2012-05-29 19:42:01 <BlueMatt> or is dns still off by default even for obvious names?
 961 2012-05-29 19:42:10 <sipa> BlueMatt: what is an obvious name?
 962 2012-05-29 19:42:31 <sipa> name resolving is always off by default, except for dns seeding and -seednode
 963 2012-05-29 19:42:37 <rebroad> sipa, thanks
 964 2012-05-29 19:42:39 <sipa> (and the latter is a bug)
 965 2012-05-29 19:42:56 <BlueMatt> sipa: I was just -connect=dnsseed.bluematt.me
 966 2012-05-29 19:43:04 <sipa> nah, you need -dns for that
 967 2012-05-29 19:43:07 <BlueMatt> ah
 968 2012-05-29 19:43:16 <BlueMatt> Id call that a bug, but...oh well
 969 2012-05-29 19:43:54 <sipa> meh, maybe we can make -dns default to on
 970 2012-05-29 19:45:21 <sipa> BlueMatt: -dns is only for -addnode and -connect anyway
 971 2012-05-29 19:45:35 <sipa> so i think every use of it is "obvious"
 972 2012-05-29 19:45:45 <BlueMatt> Id say so then, yea
 973 2012-05-29 19:49:55 <sipa> \o/ 7 ipv6 nodes in my seeds.txt
 974 2012-05-29 19:50:09 <sipa> (only one onion node, still, though)
 975 2012-05-29 19:50:16 <rebroad> ok, I obviously have to stop rebasing if I don't want to spend all day compiling...
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 978 2012-05-29 19:54:18 <gmaxwell> I'll keep reliable mainnet and testnet onion nodes up... once this gets merged. I keep breaking it when I pull other stuff as is.
 979 2012-05-29 19:55:17 * sipa wouldn't mind getting the network option changes and onion support to be merged
 980 2012-05-29 19:55:33 <sipa> but gavin didn't like the magic defaults, it seems
 981 2012-05-29 19:57:10 <gmaxwell> What was his objection?
 982 2012-05-29 19:57:19 <gmaxwell> the  (unless ...) parts of it?
 983 2012-05-29 19:57:27 <sipa> i suppose
 984 2012-05-29 19:57:42 Slix` has joined
 985 2012-05-29 19:57:48 <sipa> i think he didn't like -listen to be sometimes off and sometimes on by default
 986 2012-05-29 19:58:20 <gmaxwell> well they're required if we want to not make traps for existing users to deanonymize themselves... unless we want to rename proxy/connect and make the old ones refuse to start or something.
 987 2012-05-29 19:59:09 <sipa> i don't think the changes are that intrusive that everyone needs to re-evaluate which options they want
 988 2012-05-29 20:00:30 <gmaxwell> As is I think your behavior is fine. I mean if we do things like drop the implicit listen changing based on proxy.
 989 2012-05-29 20:01:10 <luke-jr> there, http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/security.html fixed up with a nicer lib
 990 2012-05-29 20:02:21 <gmaxwell> hey, the situation gets much better if you hover over stable node.. quick everyone load the page and hover!
 991 2012-05-29 20:02:33 <luke-jr> O.o
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 998 2012-05-29 20:20:39 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/CVEs <-- we're not doing too fast on fixes going live
 999 2012-05-29 20:21:29 <BlueMatt> again, gitian-updater-based auto-update nagging for windows users
1000 2012-05-29 20:26:09 <BlueMatt> heh, rim is finally admitting they are dead if they dont do something major
1001 2012-05-29 20:26:45 <rebroad> Why does debug.log show so many of the zeros of the block hash rather than the more significant bits?
1002 2012-05-29 20:28:14 <sipa> rebroad: wondered about that myself
1003 2012-05-29 20:29:45 <luke-jr> rebroad: I'll test & ACK a commit to show the other end of the hash :p
1004 2012-05-29 20:29:53 <luke-jr> was considering writing one, but couldn't be bothered
1005 2012-05-29 20:30:06 <luke-jr> also, the zeros *are* the most significant bits…
1006 2012-05-29 20:30:37 elkingrey has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1007 2012-05-29 20:30:43 <BlueMatt> noooo, you'll break my benchmark scripts
1008 2012-05-29 20:30:47 erle- has quit (Quit: erle-)
1009 2012-05-29 20:31:00 Lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154])
1010 2012-05-29 20:32:03 <sipa> we can just start by dropping 8 zeroes
1011 2012-05-29 20:32:12 <sipa> as thoae are required
1012 2012-05-29 20:32:52 rebroad has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1013 2012-05-29 20:32:53 <BlueMatt> I would say no need to get complicated, just drop the always-0s and leave the rest
1014 2012-05-29 20:32:53 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: I've been patching to print whole hashes.
1015 2012-05-29 20:33:01 gigavps has joined
1016 2012-05-29 20:33:07 <BlueMatt> its debug.log, it doesnt have to be /that/ pretty
1017 2012-05-29 20:33:09 <gmaxwell> because you need whole hashes to use getblock / gettransaction / etc.
1018 2012-05-29 20:33:30 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: true
1019 2012-05-29 20:33:46 <luke-jr> always annoys me that blockchain.info requires the whole hash
1020 2012-05-29 20:34:08 <gigavps> bitcoin devs, what would be the reasons to change the mining protocol? Specifically, from sha256 to something else.
1021 2012-05-29 20:34:42 <BlueMatt> break mining-specific hardware so that more control goes towards end-users
1022 2012-05-29 20:35:06 <luke-jr> gigavps: 51% attack we can't otherwise compete with
1023 2012-05-29 20:35:21 <luke-jr> gigavps: ie, someone makes an ASIC that can 51% attack and won't sell them to competitors
1024 2012-05-29 20:35:52 X-Scale has left ()
1025 2012-05-29 20:35:54 <gigavps> so the dev team would be willing to change the protocol if an ASIC hasher doesn't play nice?
1026 2012-05-29 20:36:15 <luke-jr> gigavps: legitimate ASIC resellers are advised to include some abnormality option in their ASICs so we can support the "alternate mode" in case a change is needed
1027 2012-05-29 20:36:28 <BlueMatt> not unless they get somewhere near 51% and become essentially untouchable in their hash power
1028 2012-05-29 20:36:30 <gmaxwell> gigavps: stop for a second.
1029 2012-05-29 20:36:43 <gmaxwell> gigavps: the reference client dev team is not in charge of bitcoin
1030 2012-05-29 20:37:00 <gmaxwell> gigavps: the question you should ask is would the bitcoin community be willing to change the protocol if an ASIC hasher doesn't play nice?
1031 2012-05-29 20:37:00 <gigavps> understood
1032 2012-05-29 20:37:17 <gmaxwell> And I think the answer is obvious— yet, if its harming them they'd be willing collectively to stop the harm.
1033 2012-05-29 20:37:24 <gmaxwell> s/yet/yes/
1034 2012-05-29 20:37:26 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1035 2012-05-29 20:37:46 TimothyA1 is now known as TimothyA
1036 2012-05-29 20:37:54 <gmaxwell> Esp if someone (dev team or otherwise) can come up with a solution which is not contrary to the interests of the normal cooperating users.
1037 2012-05-29 20:38:38 <TimothyA> gmaxwell: well, technically... the ASIC hasher would still dominate the network, I presume
1038 2012-05-29 20:38:43 <gmaxwell> e.g. a trivial modification to the algorithim that breaks already asics but leaves gpus and fpgas final would probably be community-viable today, in two years perhaps not.
1039 2012-05-29 20:39:15 <gmaxwell> TimothyA: it's trivial to moot an asic, their advantage— hyperspecialization is their downfall.
1040 2012-05-29 20:39:45 <TimothyA> gmaxwell: yes, but since they contribute the most hashrate with their own protocol, they would continue to hash on the blockchain, right?
1041 2012-05-29 20:40:04 <gmaxwell> TimothyA: No. Its irrelevant if your blocks aren't valid.
1042 2012-05-29 20:40:11 <gigavps> so lets talk specifics for a minute
1043 2012-05-29 20:40:21 <TimothyA> my blocks are valid to me :P
1044 2012-05-29 20:40:24 <gigavps> BFL has announced an ASIC chip
1045 2012-05-29 20:40:40 <TimothyA> gigavps: the BFL machines were supposed to be ASIC
1046 2012-05-29 20:40:45 <gmaxwell> gigavps: BFL has claimed 'ASIC' since day one. Is this claim more correct than others?
1047 2012-05-29 20:41:14 <gmaxwell> In any case the exact situation which makes this defense unavailable (lots of the community of good users has asics) also moots the attack risk for the most part.
1048 2012-05-29 20:41:14 <gigavps> this claim is full custom ASIC
1049 2012-05-29 20:41:21 <gigavps> not just an asic controller
1050 2012-05-29 20:41:49 <TimothyA> gmaxwell: it still keeps open a large window before the good users get their hands on it
1051 2012-05-29 20:41:58 <TimothyA> at least, a large enough portion
1052 2012-05-29 20:42:16 <BlueMatt> in order to get people fired up enough to switch the hash algo (I would think) you would need one miner to buy enough asics to dominate the network, and I dont see that happening, it gets really, really expensive to do that, and you wouldnt be able to make back your investment
1053 2012-05-29 20:42:38 <luke-jr> gigavps: I am not concerned about BFL's ASICs. They are selling them, not attacking with them.
1054 2012-05-29 20:42:40 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: dominating just doesn't make economic sense in fact.
1055 2012-05-29 20:42:48 <BlueMatt> exactly
1056 2012-05-29 20:43:01 <luke-jr> gigavps: there may or may not be details I cannot mention that reduces my concern.
1057 2012-05-29 20:43:14 <gmaxwell> why keep them when you can sell AS FAST AS POSSIBLE and make your risk zero before someone else shows up and deflates the market ahead of you (and drives the difficulty up making your chips worth less)
1058 2012-05-29 20:43:25 <TimothyA> gmaxwell: dominating the blockchain in regards of hashingrate would make an economic sense in the sense that the blockchain is secure - albeit controlled by a single entity
1059 2012-05-29 20:43:36 <gmaxwell> TimothyA: it would make bitcoin pointless.
1060 2012-05-29 20:43:43 <TimothyA> well, yeah
1061 2012-05-29 20:43:49 <gmaxwell> I can use the dollar if I want a currency 'controlled by a single entity'.
1062 2012-05-29 20:43:58 <gmaxwell> and pointless bitcoins don't have much resale value. :)
1063 2012-05-29 20:44:03 <BlueMatt> and then the community would screw you and you would end up with a bunch of worthless asics
1064 2012-05-29 20:44:11 <BlueMatt> a very expensive bunch of worthless asics
1065 2012-05-29 20:44:19 <gmaxwell> yea, then we flip a switch and your asics are now only good as resistive heaters.
1066 2012-05-29 20:44:21 <TimothyA> gmaxwell: difference is that the dollar is controlled by a multilude of people, and you can't just point at a single bank if the dollar goes belly up
1067 2012-05-29 20:44:24 <gigavps> so BFL selling ASIC is not seen as a thread to the bitcoin network?
1068 2012-05-29 20:44:32 <TimothyA> with bitcoin, if a single person would control it, that one person bears the whole responsbility
1069 2012-05-29 20:44:40 <luke-jr> gigavps: no
1070 2012-05-29 20:44:51 <luke-jr> gigavps: at least, *I* don't see it as a threat
1071 2012-05-29 20:45:14 <BTC_Bear> Once the 'stamp' is out in the wild, the cost of ASIC's will dramatically be reduced and the 'single' entity would devolve to a decentralized entity again.
1072 2012-05-29 20:45:15 <gigavps> that is a little reassuring
1073 2012-05-29 20:45:22 <TimothyA> I saw we should move back to CPU hashing in the first place; make anyone able to participate and mine blocks
1074 2012-05-29 20:45:51 <luke-jr> TimothyA: no good proposal for that
1075 2012-05-29 20:46:00 <OneFixt> abacus
1076 2012-05-29 20:46:00 <luke-jr> TimothyA: also, it gives botnets more of an advantage
1077 2012-05-29 20:46:02 <sipa> whatever algorithm you choose, eventually a market will always arise for specialized hardware
1078 2012-05-29 20:46:08 <luke-jr> ^
1079 2012-05-29 20:46:16 <TimothyA> luke-jr: nothing to prevent botnets?
1080 2012-05-29 20:46:29 <luke-jr> TimothyA: nope
1081 2012-05-29 20:46:35 <luke-jr> not even anti-pool measures can stop botnets
1082 2012-05-29 20:46:41 <gigavps> botnets are good as long as they play the game with everyone else TimothyA
1083 2012-05-29 20:46:51 <luke-jr> botnets are bad period
1084 2012-05-29 20:46:57 <gmaxwell> TimothyA: cpu hashing doesn't achieve that goal... nor is there any real way to achieve it.
1085 2012-05-29 20:47:03 <sipa> sure, require a certificate for keys that block payout to, controlled by a central authority :p
1086 2012-05-29 20:47:15 <TimothyA> heh
1087 2012-05-29 20:47:22 <TimothyA> P2P Certificates
1088 2012-05-29 20:47:24 <TimothyA> get to it!
1089 2012-05-29 20:47:27 <gmaxwell> Botnets result in weird crap like there being no way for a non-theif to profitably mine, which isn't good for long term stability.
1090 2012-05-29 20:47:32 <gmaxwell> but ::shrugs::
1091 2012-05-29 20:47:36 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened issue 1397 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1397>
1092 2012-05-29 20:47:37 <sipa> wait, that's called solidcoin, right?
1093 2012-05-29 20:47:45 <TimothyA> gmaxwell: there are gpu botnets as well
1094 2012-05-29 20:47:48 <luke-jr> sipa: not anymore, supposedly
1095 2012-05-29 20:47:51 <TimothyA> not as commonplace, though
1096 2012-05-29 20:48:00 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1097 2012-05-29 20:48:05 <gmaxwell> TimothyA: sure sure. But not enough to totally distort the econonmics of it all.
1098 2012-05-29 20:48:09 <luke-jr> TimothyA: they can only infect GPU-equipped machines
1099 2012-05-29 20:48:15 <luke-jr> and people are more likely to notice GPU leeches
1100 2012-05-29 20:48:21 <TimothyA> luke-jr: you would think
1101 2012-05-29 20:48:40 <gigavps> ok thanks for the chat guys
1102 2012-05-29 20:48:42 <TimothyA> they will notice it in their electricity bill. but if it's set up properly, they most likely won't even notice it
1103 2012-05-29 20:48:46 <gmaxwell> mining is still quite profitable for people on GPUs with reasonable electricity cost (though with a new hardware payoff horizon far enough out that it would be risky to start these days)
1104 2012-05-29 20:48:51 <TimothyA> e.g. slowing down/stopping when the user starts doing gpu-demanding tasks
1105 2012-05-29 20:48:56 <sipa> i don't care about 10% network power being controlled by botnets
1106 2012-05-29 20:49:01 <gigavps> i'm always humbled when i come to this channel
1107 2012-05-29 20:49:08 * luke-jr found it ironic when someone complained his GPU wasn't hashing at the claimed rate, and discovered it had a botnet sharing it…
1108 2012-05-29 20:49:13 <gmaxwell> No problem.
1109 2012-05-29 20:49:15 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: hahaha!
1110 2012-05-29 20:49:22 <BlueMatt> heh, nice
1111 2012-05-29 20:49:30 <gmaxwell> Good news: Your gpu is fine...
1112 2012-05-29 20:49:41 ThomasV has joined
1113 2012-05-29 20:49:50 <gmaxwell> better news: you found out you were compromised before you had many bitcoins to get stolen.
1114 2012-05-29 20:49:51 <sipa> i've been out of the loop of gpu mining for too long
1115 2012-05-29 20:50:08 <TimothyA> even better news: reduce your electricity bill
1116 2012-05-29 20:50:19 <sipa> i wonder if it's profitable again here now (at belgium's electricity prices)
1117 2012-05-29 20:50:30 <TimothyA> sipa: it's definitly not where I live
1118 2012-05-29 20:50:37 <gmaxwell> i've been leaving wallet.dats with some bitcoins on bastion systems — I get paged if they get spent.  Great tripwire.
1119 2012-05-29 20:50:38 <TimothyA> at ~0.40$USD kWh
1120 2012-05-29 20:50:42 <gmaxwell> TimothyA: ouch!
1121 2012-05-29 20:50:45 <TimothyA> yeah
1122 2012-05-29 20:50:51 <gmaxwell> Germany? or?
1123 2012-05-29 20:50:52 * TimothyA was an early adopter, too
1124 2012-05-29 20:51:04 <TimothyA> and I still couldn't get enough bitcoins out of it
1125 2012-05-29 20:51:08 <TimothyA> curacao
1126 2012-05-29 20:51:35 gigavps has left ()
1127 2012-05-29 20:51:48 <gmaxwell> I'd really love to get rid of these gpus, they're a pain to maintain.
1128 2012-05-29 20:52:01 <TimothyA> and I can't afford to run them
1129 2012-05-29 20:52:14 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I'll take em! :P
1130 2012-05-29 20:52:22 <BlueMatt> no me
1131 2012-05-29 20:52:25 <TimothyA> I can probably sell them here with a 500% upmark
1132 2012-05-29 20:52:28 <gmaxwell> I'll gladly buy lots of spiffy asic should something come out thats on modern proess that won't be mooted a few months after it arrives.
1133 2012-05-29 20:52:35 <TimothyA> if you know how to smuggle them to where I live
1134 2012-05-29 20:52:40 <gmaxwell> hah
1135 2012-05-29 20:52:47 <TimothyA> no, seriously
1136 2012-05-29 20:53:05 <gmaxwell> Yea, I'm not in the smuggling business. alas.
1137 2012-05-29 20:53:15 <TimothyA> what's the price of a 6990?
1138 2012-05-29 20:53:19 RainbowDashh has quit (Quit: RainbowDashh)
1139 2012-05-29 20:53:30 <TimothyA> 800$ ?
1140 2012-05-29 20:53:41 <TimothyA> costs 4000$ USD here
1141 2012-05-29 20:54:02 <sipa> ok, 2.4 MH/J seems the best number for gpu mining
1142 2012-05-29 20:54:05 <ThomasV> where?
1143 2012-05-29 20:54:10 <TimothyA> ThomasV: where I live :P
1144 2012-05-29 20:54:22 <ThomasV> TimothyA: where?
1145 2012-05-29 20:54:26 <TimothyA> curacao
1146 2012-05-29 20:54:47 <TimothyA> I mean, a friggin 8400GS goes for 500$ ...
1147 2012-05-29 20:55:03 <sipa> so, at 1W...
1148 2012-05-29 20:55:12 <sipa> ;;bc,gen 2400
1149 2012-05-29 20:55:13 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 2400 Khps, given current difficulty of 1591074.9618473 , is 0.00151720577049 BTC per day and 6.32169071039e-05 BTC per hour.
1150 2012-05-29 20:55:18 <gmaxwell> sipa: (17179869184*diff*kwh)/(719989013671875*exc*mhj)=1
1151 2012-05-29 20:55:27 wizkid057 has joined
1152 2012-05-29 20:55:27 wizkid057 has quit (Changing host)
1153 2012-05-29 20:55:27 wizkid057 has joined
1154 2012-05-29 20:55:28 <gmaxwell> thats breakeven, substitute and solve.
1155 2012-05-29 20:55:46 <sipa> exc?
1156 2012-05-29 20:55:52 <sipa> ah, exchange rate
1157 2012-05-29 20:55:54 <gmaxwell> exchange rate in usd/btc.
1158 2012-05-29 20:56:09 <gmaxwell> kwh is $/kwh.
1159 2012-05-29 20:56:52 RazielZ has joined
1160 2012-05-29 20:57:07 <TimothyA> I've been thinking of getting a solar-powered rig operation going, but nobody seems to be interested
1161 2012-05-29 20:57:17 <gmaxwell> TimothyA: I thought that was Diablo-D3's obsession?
1162 2012-05-29 20:57:30 <luke-jr> TimothyA: DMC?
1163 2012-05-29 20:57:34 <TimothyA> gmaxwell: really?
1164 2012-05-29 20:57:36 <TimothyA> luke-jr: dmc?
1165 2012-05-29 20:57:45 <phantomcircuit> this spoon was made in america
1166 2012-05-29 20:57:48 <luke-jr> TimothyA: Diablo-D3's $1mil mining corp
1167 2012-05-29 20:57:54 <gmaxwell> TimothyA: my power costs something like 5.5c/kwh in the winer (goes up in the summer) so you can see why solar isn't exciting to me.
1168 2012-05-29 20:57:59 <phantomcircuit> spoons without lead make me happy
1169 2012-05-29 20:57:59 <sipa> ;;calc (17179869184*[bc,diff]*0.2)/(719989013671875*4*2.41)
1170 2012-05-29 20:57:59 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: bet you can break it with your hands
1171 2012-05-29 20:58:01 <gribble> 0.787657814765
1172 2012-05-29 20:58:09 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, it's a very good spoon
1173 2012-05-29 20:58:20 <gmaxwell> I think it would be more interesting to drive the intial costs down and sell miners as resistive heaters in the north that you pay people to run.
1174 2012-05-29 20:58:25 <phantomcircuit> high pressure stamped steel
1175 2012-05-29 20:58:29 <TimothyA> luke-jr: right... so I really doubt he has any interest in having me run the op :P
1176 2012-05-29 20:58:41 davex__ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1177 2012-05-29 20:58:47 <phantomcircuit> should make forge pressed spoons
1178 2012-05-29 20:58:50 <phantomcircuit> BOSS SPOON
1179 2012-05-29 20:59:09 <BlueMatt> internet-connected resistive heaters
1180 2012-05-29 20:59:15 <luke-jr> TimothyA: also, FWIW, I used to run my mining on solar
1181 2012-05-29 20:59:21 <TimothyA> but?
1182 2012-05-29 20:59:25 <luke-jr> but I moved.
1183 2012-05-29 20:59:29 <gmaxwell> I've long held the view that eventually your oven or dryer would be the most powerful computer in your home.
1184 2012-05-29 20:59:48 <gmaxwell> perhaps bitcoin will be the base load that makes that sort of thing viable.
1185 2012-05-29 21:00:14 <TimothyA> why isn't anyone interested in starting bitcoin businesses in poor countries!
1186 2012-05-29 21:00:33 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: if only the world were Christian…
1187 2012-05-29 21:00:44 RainbowDashh has joined
1188 2012-05-29 21:00:53 <luke-jr> with the secular world, you can be sure people would effectively steal any subsidies
1189 2012-05-29 21:01:00 <luke-jr> and use it themselves
1190 2012-05-29 21:01:04 <TimothyA> .... here we were going along just fine, and you bring up religion.
1191 2012-05-29 21:01:28 <luke-jr> TimothyA: hey, it's true :p
1192 2012-05-29 21:01:37 <gmaxwell> TimothyA: if you don't want that discussion just don't argue it, luke neve keeps up those discussions without a counterparty.
1193 2012-05-29 21:01:52 <sipa> yes luke, yes...
1194 2012-05-29 21:01:54 <luke-jr> TimothyA: people would buy them subsidized, then hijack the hardware for their own use
1195 2012-05-29 21:02:21 <sipa> so, you're in favor of DRM as well?
1196 2012-05-29 21:02:27 <luke-jr> sipa: no :p
1197 2012-05-29 21:02:27 <bonks> so how easy is it to crack an encrypted wallet?
1198 2012-05-29 21:02:32 <luke-jr> bonks: impossible?
1199 2012-05-29 21:02:44 <sipa> bonks: with a weak password, trivial
1200 2012-05-29 21:02:52 <luke-jr> sipa: I'm in favour of honest culture ;)
1201 2012-05-29 21:02:52 <sipa> with a good password, impossible
1202 2012-05-29 21:03:07 <bonks> sounds good
1203 2012-05-29 21:03:28 <bonks> so i can store my wallet publicly as long as I have like a 25 character password
1204 2012-05-29 21:03:35 <bonks> with random chars
1205 2012-05-29 21:03:45 <sipa> alphanumeric?
1206 2012-05-29 21:03:48 <gmaxwell> bonks: a 25 character that you used a machine to generate. Yes.
1207 2012-05-29 21:03:56 <BlueMatt> sure, as long as you dont mind people seeing all your financial info (in btc)
1208 2012-05-29 21:04:20 <bonks> sipa: yeah, and upper/lower case with special chars
1209 2012-05-29 21:04:28 <gmaxwell> Do not make the passphrase up yourself, humans are generally no good at that even when they think they are.
1210 2012-05-29 21:04:37 <luke-jr> bonks: if you don't mind no privacy
1211 2012-05-29 21:04:45 <TimothyA> hmm...
1212 2012-05-29 21:04:55 <bonks> ok cool, because people talk about offline wallets like it's really necessary
1213 2012-05-29 21:04:58 <TimothyA> a long easily-memorable password tends to be better than 32-characters of alphanumeric mumbojumbo
1214 2012-05-29 21:04:59 <gmaxwell> You don't need special characters if it's really random and that long ... all lowercase * 25 characters is 117.5 bits.
1215 2012-05-29 21:05:14 <bonks> TimothyA: meh, I can remember my mumbo jumbo
1216 2012-05-29 21:05:16 <luke-jr> bonks: an encrypted wallet that you never decrypt is offline
1217 2012-05-29 21:05:28 <TimothyA> bonks: you would still remember more if it were words you can remember
1218 2012-05-29 21:05:46 <TimothyA> to the computer, it's still just a sequence of numbers and characters
1219 2012-05-29 21:05:53 <gmaxwell> TimothyA: with 12 easily remembered totally random words you can have 128 bits of entroy which is Enought for Anybody.
1220 2012-05-29 21:06:07 <luke-jr> just don't use "My hovercraft is full of eels!" in any language
1221 2012-05-29 21:06:08 <TimothyA> gmaxwell: I'm not argueing against you :P
1222 2012-05-29 21:06:26 <gmaxwell> but you should not make up keys by yourself. You think you're being quite clever but millions of attempts per second and good models trump a lot of smart.s
1223 2012-05-29 21:06:35 <bonks> so basically, the only way to crack an encrypted wallet is by brute force. and sharing an encrypted wallet still exposes transactions, so privacy may be a concern.
1224 2012-05-29 21:06:51 <luke-jr> bonks: also exposes comments and addresses
1225 2012-05-29 21:07:07 <bonks> comments?
1226 2012-05-29 21:07:11 <bonks> oh the labels
1227 2012-05-29 21:07:16 Joric has quit ()
1228 2012-05-29 21:07:19 <sipa> transaction comments and labels
1229 2012-05-29 21:07:49 <bonks> there are transaction comments? is this accessible in -qt?
1230 2012-05-29 21:07:57 <sipa> not afaik
1231 2012-05-29 21:08:17 <splatster> Well, the other parts don't really need to be encrypted, as the attacker couldn't spend the money.
1232 2012-05-29 21:08:54 <bonks> alright, I just didn't want to be too paranoid to the point that it's inconvenient
1233 2012-05-29 21:09:31 twmz__ has joined
1234 2012-05-29 21:09:39 <gmaxwell> bonks: why bother with public, but 20 cheap usb drives from china for like $1... smallest available will do.. and just put your wallet on each and litter your home and office with them.
1235 2012-05-29 21:10:11 elkingrey has joined
1236 2012-05-29 21:10:18 <gmaxwell> sure, and attacker could get one and go after your password, but I assume there are far fewer attackers in your house than on the entire internet.
1237 2012-05-29 21:10:24 <gmaxwell> (and if not, you have other problems)
1238 2012-05-29 21:11:05 twmz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1239 2012-05-29 21:11:15 twmz_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1240 2012-05-29 21:11:38 <splatster> lol
1241 2012-05-29 21:14:30 <D34TH> :3
1242 2012-05-29 21:14:34 twmz has joined
1243 2012-05-29 21:15:05 MiningBuddy has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1244 2012-05-29 21:15:25 <splatster> I've seen several posts on the forums about people worried about keyloggers stealing their passwords, but wouldn't a piece of malware which has access to your keystrokes likely have access to your memory to snag an unencrypted copy much easier?
1245 2012-05-29 21:15:29 elkingrey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1246 2012-05-29 21:18:41 <gmaxwell> splatster: yes. but a keylogger is a non-specific attack... e.g. the attacker may see the phrase in the logs after the fact.
1247 2012-05-29 21:19:21 <splatster> ah
1248 2012-05-29 21:19:39 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: you and I need to get more noticable PM notification :P
1249 2012-05-29 21:19:44 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: do you have XMPP?
1250 2012-05-29 21:20:01 <bonks> Isn't my wallet only decrypted on sending. So I could keep an offline wallet which I stash funds in, but if I need to send coins out, I could send it offline, then go online AFTER I decrypted?
1251 2012-05-29 21:20:20 <bonks> .. to sync, then take it offline.
1252 2012-05-29 21:20:23 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: yea, but it's not better than IRC really.
1253 2012-05-29 21:20:49 <luke-jr> >_<
1254 2012-05-29 21:21:04 <gmaxwell> bonks: yes but if you're compromised the trojan can wait and pull the keys from memory.
1255 2012-05-29 21:21:36 <gmaxwell> eventually we'll have better support for external wallets... but that will come after determinstic keys I expect.
1256 2012-05-29 21:22:29 <bonks> ok cool
1257 2012-05-29 21:24:01 <gmaxwell> (because that will remove the complexity of syncing keys between your online view-only wallet which you'd use to draft transactions, and your offline sign-only wallet which you use to confirm and sign transactions.
1258 2012-05-29 21:27:00 <TheSeven> BlueMatt: any plans on pushing 0.6.2 to the PPA?
1259 2012-05-29 21:28:29 elkingrey has joined
1260 2012-05-29 21:28:57 <BlueMatt> its there
1261 2012-05-29 21:29:20 ovidiusoft has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1262 2012-05-29 21:29:29 <BlueMatt> TheSeven: its been there since 2012-05-08
1263 2012-05-29 21:30:07 <TheSeven> hm... sry for chasing you up then
1264 2012-05-29 21:30:27 <BlueMatt> is it not loading for you?
1265 2012-05-29 21:31:17 <TheSeven> one of my boxes (which is supposed to update this automatically) is still running "version" : 60006
1266 2012-05-29 21:31:40 <TheSeven> another one is running bitcoin-qt "Bitcoin Version vCLIENT_VERSION_MAJOR.CLIENT_VERSION_MINOR.CLIENT_VERSION_REVISION.CLIENT_VERSION_BUILD-g8ff1873-beta", which, IIUC, is indeed 0.6.2
1267 2012-05-29 21:32:24 <BlueMatt> the second looks like 0.6.2 to me, the first...any clue why?
1268 2012-05-29 21:32:41 <TheSeven> probably some trouble on my side, I'll check that out
1269 2012-05-29 21:33:47 <TheSeven> hm, aptitude says "held back" for some reason
1270 2012-05-29 21:34:10 <BlueMatt> is it in your /etc/apt/preferences
1271 2012-05-29 21:34:34 <BlueMatt> or are there any holds in there that might effect its deps
1272 2012-05-29 21:36:48 * TheSeven decides to not care, and instead just do a dist-upgrade that was due on that box anyway
1273 2012-05-29 21:37:12 <TheSeven> gonna sort that out afterwards if it doesn't fix itself magically during the process
1274 2012-05-29 21:37:31 talpan has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
1275 2012-05-29 21:39:22 ThomasV has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1276 2012-05-29 21:44:28 ThomasV has joined
1277 2012-05-29 21:47:35 elkingrey has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1278 2012-05-29 21:50:30 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1279 2012-05-29 21:54:33 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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1283 2012-05-29 21:55:19 MiningBuddy has joined
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1285 2012-05-29 21:55:46 mxmxmx has joined
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1288 2012-05-29 22:01:26 RainbowDashh has quit (Quit: RainbowDashh)
1289 2012-05-29 22:01:40 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1290 2012-05-29 22:04:01 RainbowDashh has joined
1291 2012-05-29 22:05:36 <bonks> where do I go to suggest features for -qt?
1292 2012-05-29 22:06:33 Internet13 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1293 2012-05-29 22:07:28 shurnormal has quit (Quit: http://driedleaves.no-ip.org)
1294 2012-05-29 22:07:51 copumpkin has joined
1295 2012-05-29 22:08:38 fpgaminer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1296 2012-05-29 22:08:55 fpgaminer has joined
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1300 2012-05-29 22:16:11 <splatster> Need help with sendmany, can I get some help in PM?
1301 2012-05-29 22:16:39 eoss has joined
1302 2012-05-29 22:16:40 eoss has quit (Changing host)
1303 2012-05-29 22:16:40 eoss has joined
1304 2012-05-29 22:18:15 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1305 2012-05-29 22:18:22 <sipa> bonks: github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues
1306 2012-05-29 22:20:01 <bonks> ah looks like it's already there
1307 2012-05-29 22:20:26 <bonks> ... balance history that is
1308 2012-05-29 22:20:30 tucenaber has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1309 2012-05-29 22:21:37 <bonks> hmm, no way to upvote
1310 2012-05-29 22:22:00 tucenaber has joined
1311 2012-05-29 22:25:14 <splatster> Any way to use sendmany from "*"?
1312 2012-05-29 22:25:27 <splatster> Becuase bitcoind calls that an invalid account.
1313 2012-05-29 22:25:45 <splatster> I want to use sendmany, not caring about the account in use.
1314 2012-05-29 22:26:23 <freewil> splatster, i guess this would be using a specific account
1315 2012-05-29 22:26:30 <freewil> but what if you just used the default empty string ""
1316 2012-05-29 22:26:34 _Fireball has quit (Quit:  HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client)
1317 2012-05-29 22:26:39 vigilyn has joined
1318 2012-05-29 22:26:50 <splatster> I'll try that
1319 2012-05-29 22:27:14 stalled has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1320 2012-05-29 22:27:43 <splatster> lolwut?
1321 2012-05-29 22:27:45 <splatster>     "" : -33.53414950,
1322 2012-05-29 22:27:53 <splatster> An account with a negative balance?
1323 2012-05-29 22:29:39 agricocb has joined
1324 2012-05-29 22:29:42 <gmaxwell> splatster: sure.
1325 2012-05-29 22:30:28 graingert has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1326 2012-05-29 22:30:39 <sipa> splatster: every transaction has one and only one "from account"
1327 2012-05-29 22:30:53 <sipa> accounts are only virtual balances
1328 2012-05-29 22:31:00 <sipa> they do not correspond to coins
1329 2012-05-29 22:31:20 <sipa> it just has to be subtracted somewhere
1330 2012-05-29 22:31:39 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1331 2012-05-29 22:31:41 <splatster> any way to set all things back to the default account?
1332 2012-05-29 22:31:50 <sipa> moveto
1333 2012-05-29 22:31:53 <sipa> or move
1334 2012-05-29 22:32:23 stalled has joined
1335 2012-05-29 22:32:56 <splatster> wait, does it actually make a TX for it?
1336 2012-05-29 22:33:32 <freewil> no, moves do not create or broadcast transactions
1337 2012-05-29 22:33:46 <freewil> it's just an internal operation within your wallet
1338 2012-05-29 22:34:03 Joric has joined
1339 2012-05-29 22:34:04 Joric has quit (Changing host)
1340 2012-05-29 22:34:04 Joric has joined
1341 2012-05-29 22:36:08 RainbowDashh has quit (Quit: RainbowDashh)
1342 2012-05-29 22:36:38 <splatster> could the default account having a negative balance cause sendmany to fail even though the wallet has plenty of money in it?
1343 2012-05-29 22:37:45 <sipa> no
1344 2012-05-29 22:38:07 <sipa> not since 0.3.something
1345 2012-05-29 22:42:01 <splatster> hmmm
1346 2012-05-29 22:42:54 dvide has joined
1347 2012-05-29 22:43:07 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
1348 2012-05-29 22:44:11 <splatster> sipa: Then what's my problem?
1349 2012-05-29 22:47:11 <sipa> no, idea; what is the symptom?
1350 2012-05-29 22:47:50 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@pool-96-226-236-130.dllstx.fios.verizon.net|brwyatt
1351 2012-05-29 22:50:11 <splatster> sipa: Does minconf not actually change anything if you set it to 0?
1352 2012-05-29 22:50:54 <splatster> this is so weird
1353 2012-05-29 22:52:03 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1354 2012-05-29 22:52:14 <sipa> it never uses 0-conf coins that are not change or send-to-self
1355 2012-05-29 22:52:34 <sipa> even with minconf=0
1356 2012-05-29 22:53:10 skeledrew1 has joined
1357 2012-05-29 22:53:43 <splatster> ok
1358 2012-05-29 22:53:55 <splatster> I'm just ditching sendmany
1359 2012-05-29 22:54:01 <splatster> And got it to work without it.
1360 2012-05-29 22:54:30 <sipa> :(
1361 2012-05-29 22:55:16 <splatster> sipa: Right now, it's only 4 TXs and it's once a day, so I'm not too worried.
1362 2012-05-29 22:55:29 <splatster> If it gets to be more, I'll figure sendmany out
1363 2012-05-29 22:55:46 <splatster> Maybe make a patch without <account> for sendmany?
1364 2012-05-29 22:55:49 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1365 2012-05-29 22:56:54 <sipa> why?
1366 2012-05-29 22:57:02 <sipa> use "" as from account
1367 2012-05-29 22:57:07 <splatster> Didn't work
1368 2012-05-29 22:57:11 <sipa> that is what sendtoaddress does
1369 2012-05-29 22:57:24 <splatster> I'll debug it in a sec
1370 2012-05-29 22:57:34 <splatster> but for now, I'm sticking with this to save my sanity
1371 2012-05-29 22:58:44 t7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1372 2012-05-29 23:07:22 Skaag has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1373 2012-05-29 23:07:40 Skaag has joined
1374 2012-05-29 23:07:48 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1375 2012-05-29 23:09:20 skeledrew1 has joined
1376 2012-05-29 23:11:07 <D34TH> IRC connect failed
1377 2012-05-29 23:11:07 <D34TH> IRC waiting 71 seconds to reconnect
1378 2012-05-29 23:11:09 <D34TH> hmm
1379 2012-05-29 23:12:15 spaola has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1380 2012-05-29 23:12:15 <sipa> maybe it resolved the IRC server's address to an IPv6 one, but you have no IPv6 interface?
1381 2012-05-29 23:12:22 <D34TH> i do
1382 2012-05-29 23:12:38 <D34TH> 2001:470:4:9b1::2
1383 2012-05-29 23:12:40 <D34TH> :D
1384 2012-05-29 23:14:25 sgornick has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1385 2012-05-29 23:27:05 Turingi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1386 2012-05-29 23:28:08 mxmxmx has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1387 2012-05-29 23:29:40 <luke-jr> sigh
1388 2012-05-29 23:29:48 <luke-jr> I don't see any way to optimize txn_prio more
1389 2012-05-29 23:29:55 <luke-jr> all its time is spent fetching/connecting inputs
1390 2012-05-29 23:31:57 tyn has joined
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