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   3 2012-05-31 00:22:06 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: dscotese opened issue 1400 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1400>
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   9 2012-05-31 00:32:03 <Joric> lol, uploaded https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/mtgox-ticker/ they say 3 days
  10 2012-05-31 00:32:16 <Joric> got 2 btc for it!
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  35 2012-05-31 02:07:12 <Rebroad> I'm trying to compile bitcoin-qt on windows.... but I think it's having trouble running genbuild.sh....
  36 2012-05-31 02:07:39 <Rebroad> I've followed the intructions in readme-qt.rst...
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  39 2012-05-31 02:11:24 <D34TH> yea
  40 2012-05-31 02:11:29 <D34TH> it doesnt liek to build
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  43 2012-05-31 02:15:51 <BlueMatt> yea, have fun
  44 2012-05-31 02:15:59 <BlueMatt> its kinda a mess
  45 2012-05-31 02:16:06 <BlueMatt> if you can help fix it, please pull request
  46 2012-05-31 02:20:15 <Rebroad> who is currently compiling the windows executables?
  47 2012-05-31 02:20:19 <Rebroad> and how are they doing it?>
  48 2012-05-31 02:20:46 <BlueMatt> on ubuntu
  49 2012-05-31 02:20:49 <BlueMatt> cross-compiled
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  60 2012-05-31 02:36:49 <Rebroad> ah.. just needed the FORCE for build.h removing...
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  63 2012-05-31 02:40:30 <D34TH> if you have git for windows add it to qt creators path and that should fix build.h
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  69 2012-05-31 02:52:37 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: rebroad opened issue 1401 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1401>
  70 2012-05-31 02:53:30 <Rebroad> D34TH, ah, thanks. will try that... the docs probably need updating to mention that then
  71 2012-05-31 02:53:41 <D34TH> its a hackfix
  72 2012-05-31 02:53:47 <D34TH> i really wouldnt recommend it
  73 2012-05-31 02:54:18 <Rebroad> recommend what? using git?
  74 2012-05-31 02:54:37 <D34TH> the hack way it uses sh
  75 2012-05-31 02:55:24 <Rebroad> what should it use?
  76 2012-05-31 02:55:48 <D34TH> honestly it shouldnt
  77 2012-05-31 02:55:51 <D34TH> but it works
  78 2012-05-31 02:56:17 <Rebroad> did you just try it?
  79 2012-05-31 02:56:24 <D34TH> ive been trying it
  80 2012-05-31 02:56:30 <D34TH> i cant get the right deps
  81 2012-05-31 02:56:40 <Rebroad> you've got it to compile using Qt Creator?
  82 2012-05-31 02:56:40 <D34TH> but i got the system working
  83 2012-05-31 02:56:45 <D34TH> in the past yes
  84 2012-05-31 02:57:05 <Rebroad> ah, and then it broke ?
  85 2012-05-31 02:57:08 <D34TH> yea
  86 2012-05-31 02:57:21 <Rebroad> can we isolate when it broke?
  87 2012-05-31 02:57:24 <D34TH> nope
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  89 2012-05-31 03:03:53 <D34TH> hmm /dev/kvm doesnt exist
  90 2012-05-31 03:03:54 <D34TH> D:
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  98 2012-05-31 03:15:55 <D34TH> FATAL: Error inserting kvm_amd (/lib/modules/3.2.0-24-generic/kernel/arch/x86/kvm/kvm-amd.ko): Operation not supported
  99 2012-05-31 03:15:56 <D34TH> damn
 100 2012-05-31 03:15:58 <D34TH> hmm
 101 2012-05-31 03:16:01 <D34TH> livecd time
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 103 2012-05-31 03:17:07 <lianj> maybe its no amd? :P
 104 2012-05-31 03:17:13 <D34TH> its def amd
 105 2012-05-31 03:17:50 <splatster> The CPU architecture is a lie!
 106 2012-05-31 03:18:00 <splatster> </bad Portal reference>
 107 2012-05-31 03:18:00 <D34TH> lol
 108 2012-05-31 03:18:44 <D34TH> im going to make a liveusb to gitian it
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 110 2012-05-31 03:20:16 <D34TH> oh god
 111 2012-05-31 03:20:21 <D34TH> i might as well just wubi
 112 2012-05-31 03:20:30 <D34TH> because livecd disables repos
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 118 2012-05-31 03:27:01 <D34TH> i wonder
 119 2012-05-31 03:27:26 <D34TH> bluematt how did you get bitcoin-qt built for windows on jenkins
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 122 2012-05-31 03:29:10 <gmaxwell> D34TH: we cross compile for windows
 123 2012-05-31 03:29:34 <D34TH> i know i wanted to know how bluematt got it on jenkins
 124 2012-05-31 03:29:55 <gmaxwell> ... by just setting up the commands. Jenkins can just run any commands you want.
 125 2012-05-31 03:30:17 <D34TH> ive never used it before
 126 2012-05-31 03:30:21 <D34TH> lol
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 128 2012-05-31 03:30:54 <gmaxwell> Jenkins is like fancy java based cron with a snazzy web ui.
 129 2012-05-31 03:32:45 <D34TH> ahh
 130 2012-05-31 03:33:21 <D34TH> well ive decided to get a ubuntu liveusb so i can build it
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 136 2012-05-31 04:00:08 <D34TH> gmaxwell, do you think a livecd will be able to use gitian to build
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 138 2012-05-31 04:00:14 <D34TH> or will it crash
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 144 2012-05-31 04:07:16 <uzyn> Hello
 145 2012-05-31 04:07:34 <uzyn> I'm trying to run bitcoind as a non-root user, but it keeps trying to create .bitcoin at /root/.bitcoin
 146 2012-05-31 04:07:41 <uzyn> here's as pastebin
 147 2012-05-31 04:07:42 <uzyn> http://pastebin.com/V3gNfvFg
 148 2012-05-31 04:07:56 <uzyn> Any idea how I can force it to other dir?
 149 2012-05-31 04:08:09 RainbowDashh has joined
 150 2012-05-31 04:09:16 <gmaxwell> are you su-ing to become the non-root user?
 151 2012-05-31 04:09:23 <uzyn> yup
 152 2012-05-31 04:09:40 <uzyn> that command was run from root, as I wanted to do it from monit
 153 2012-05-31 04:09:54 <gmaxwell> add a -i to your sudo
 154 2012-05-31 04:09:57 <uzyn> if I login as btcuser and run that command, it would work
 155 2012-05-31 04:10:01 <uzyn> oh
 156 2012-05-31 04:10:27 <gmaxwell> (at least I think it's -i .. whatever gives you an enviroment like a login shell)
 157 2012-05-31 04:10:49 <uzyn> Now I get this: http://pastebin.com/N1FREmTp
 158 2012-05-31 04:10:53 <uzyn> hmm
 159 2012-05-31 04:10:59 <uzyn> I wonder what flags monit use
 160 2012-05-31 04:14:18 <gmaxwell> go delete whatever you have in .bitcoin (assuming you don't have a wallet with funds in it)
 161 2012-05-31 04:15:10 <Diablo-D3> Dragon is returning home starting 2:30 AM EDT
 162 2012-05-31 04:15:52 <uzyn> gmaxwell: I have, and it's already backed up. ~/.bitcoin is fine too if I log in as the user and runs the same command without sudoing from root. But when it's sudo -u from root, it tries to use /root/.bitcoin even if I explicitly name the datadir
 163 2012-05-31 04:17:28 <gmaxwell> uzyn: I told you to use -i
 164 2012-05-31 04:17:53 <gmaxwell> and you got a different error, thats progress.
 165 2012-05-31 04:18:09 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 166 2012-05-31 04:19:17 <uzyn> oh
 167 2012-05-31 04:19:21 <uzyn> thanks. let me give that a try
 168 2012-05-31 04:19:29 <TuxBlackEdo> different errors = progress
 169 2012-05-31 04:19:37 <luke-jr> su -
 170 2012-05-31 04:19:39 <luke-jr> or sudo -i
 171 2012-05-31 04:19:56 <TuxBlackEdo> yeah i would so "su - btcuser"
 172 2012-05-31 04:19:58 <TuxBlackEdo> do*
 173 2012-05-31 04:20:05 <uzyn> actually I'm not in the mercy to specify the flags as it all depends on monit.. I'm just guessing monit uses sudo -u, which may also be sudo -u -i
 174 2012-05-31 04:20:18 <uzyn> anyway I will work on the database issue be starting .bitcoin from fresh
 175 2012-05-31 04:22:27 <luke-jr> sudo -u requires a username
 176 2012-05-31 04:22:30 <luke-jr> sudo -u foobar -i
 177 2012-05-31 04:23:59 <uzyn> luke-jr: thanks. Yup. I did specify a username
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 181 2012-05-31 04:32:49 <Cory> I can't paste an address with unallowed characters into the "pay to:" field in -qt on Windows unless I use the "paste address from clipboard" button (so I can't use ctrl + v or the right-click menu, yet the button works). Is that intentional?
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 185 2012-05-31 04:39:59 <D34TH> well that was disappointing
 186 2012-05-31 04:40:03 <D34TH> i got kvm working
 187 2012-05-31 04:40:09 <D34TH> but couldnt write to /tmp
 188 2012-05-31 04:40:12 <D34TH> because it was a livecd
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 198 2012-05-31 04:52:54 <luke-jr> Cory: report a bug
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 206 2012-05-31 05:40:41 <sipa> D34TH: as some people told you a few days ago: the VM inside probably doesn't support hardware virtualization
 207 2012-05-31 05:40:54 <D34TH> it says it does
 208 2012-05-31 05:41:02 <D34TH> which is disappointing
 209 2012-05-31 05:41:08 <Diablo-D3> that can work
 210 2012-05-31 05:41:12 <Diablo-D3> but you gotta be careful with it
 211 2012-05-31 05:41:18 <Diablo-D3> like kvm I think still wont work right
 212 2012-05-31 05:41:27 <Diablo-D3> but xen will let you have hw virt kvms
 213 2012-05-31 05:41:34 <D34TH> i tried a livecd but tmp was mounted nodev
 214 2012-05-31 05:41:58 <D34TH> but if i can edit that
 215 2012-05-31 05:42:00 <D34TH> gold
 216 2012-05-31 05:42:22 <sipa> D34TH: yes your VM program *uses* hardware virt, but it does not provide that *inside* the created VM
 217 2012-05-31 05:42:48 <Diablo-D3> vm inside of vm is tricky if the vm doesnt understand its in a vm
 218 2012-05-31 05:43:14 <sipa> exactly, it can work, but usually it doesn't
 219 2012-05-31 05:43:42 <Diablo-D3> its on kvm's todo list to paravirtualize the hal for that
 220 2012-05-31 05:46:07 <D34TH> if i could just edit the /etc/fstab and have it save
 221 2012-05-31 05:46:11 <D34TH> id be golden
 222 2012-05-31 05:48:35 wasabi has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 223 2012-05-31 05:52:01 <D34TH> i wonder if i should temporarily wubi for it
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 242 2012-05-31 06:17:03 <D34TH> bbl wubi
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 246 2012-05-31 06:33:55 <d34th> good news
 247 2012-05-31 06:34:05 <d34th> after a little  coaxing wubi is working with kvm
 248 2012-05-31 06:34:58 <d34th> now im getting the prereqs so ir doesnt scream at me
 249 2012-05-31 06:35:05 * d34th asks sipa for good luck
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 253 2012-05-31 06:37:15 <TuxBlackEdo> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html <- coverage live now!
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 255 2012-05-31 06:38:34 <Diablo-D3> spacex dragon is returning home now, live coverage: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
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 264 2012-05-31 06:58:23 <d34th> hey sipa, is it normal for
 265 2012-05-31 06:58:31 <d34th> 02:48:36,110 INFO    : Calling hook: bootstrap
 266 2012-05-31 06:58:36 <d34th> and its 02:55
 267 2012-05-31 06:58:42 <d34th> still stuck
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 303 2012-05-31 07:40:41 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: rPman opened issue 1402 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1402>
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 347 2012-05-31 10:12:56 <Rebroad> is anyone familiar with running rebase with -p and -i ?
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 350 2012-05-31 10:25:04 <sipa> Rebroad: never used -p, but i'm familiar with -i
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 352 2012-05-31 10:26:23 <Rebroad> -p preserves merges.. I'd like to do that so that my commit history shows both parents, but when used with -i I don't understand what it's doing...
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 389 2012-05-31 12:41:53 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: hmm...that weird pruning 1898834 CTxIndex's result from last night is looking right... -checkblocks up to the last checkpoint (where it prunes to) -checklevel=6 finds no errors, and I synced a few thousand blocks last night after pruning with no issues...
 390 2012-05-31 12:42:06 <BlueMatt> sipa: had you not calculated how many txes could be pruned previously?
 391 2012-05-31 12:42:46 <BlueMatt> if pruning really is able to remove nearly a 1/3 of the items in blkindex.dat Im gonna be amazed
 392 2012-05-31 12:44:52 <sipa> unfortunately, most of the space is taken by transactions in blocks, not by the index
 393 2012-05-31 12:45:14 <sipa> though pruning the index sounds easy to implement
 394 2012-05-31 12:50:38 <BlueMatt> it was
 395 2012-05-31 12:50:53 <BlueMatt> the idea is that space isnt the problem - its too much time looking up txes in the index
 396 2012-05-31 12:51:09 <BlueMatt> though it appears bdb's delete is entirely lazy, so it may not help
 397 2012-05-31 12:51:43 <BlueMatt> but, yea  it appears pruning txindex up to the most recent checkpoint removes 1,898,834 CTxIndexs from blkindex.dat
 398 2012-05-31 12:51:50 agricocb has joined
 399 2012-05-31 12:54:56 <BlueMatt> which is just slightly more than 1/2 of blkindex.dat
 400 2012-05-31 12:57:06 <luke-jr_> Diablo-D3: nested virtualization is fine in KVM
 401 2012-05-31 12:57:18 <luke-jr_> except for a kernel bug that makes it kernel panic every few months
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 413 2012-05-31 13:44:19 <rebroad> hmmm. github problems.. I'm pushing but nothing's appearing.. :-s
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 418 2012-05-31 13:56:15 <Diablo-D3> [08:54:05] <luke-jr_> Diablo-D3: nested virtualization is fine in KVM
 419 2012-05-31 13:56:15 <Diablo-D3> [08:54:17] <luke-jr_> except for a kernel bug that makes it kernel panic every few months
 420 2012-05-31 13:56:17 <Diablo-D3> dont tell me
 421 2012-05-31 13:56:20 <Diablo-D3> every 42 days?
 422 2012-05-31 13:56:34 <sipa> 49.7 days probably
 423 2012-05-31 13:56:34 <Diablo-D3> last time I noticed, kvm couldnt do it yet
 424 2012-05-31 13:56:40 <Diablo-D3> sipa: er right
 425 2012-05-31 13:56:42 <Diablo-D3> that
 426 2012-05-31 13:56:56 <sipa> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/216641
 427 2012-05-31 13:57:16 <Diablo-D3> yeah exactly
 428 2012-05-31 13:57:24 <Diablo-D3> a 32 bit counter of ms or whatever
 429 2012-05-31 13:58:08 <luke-jr_> Diablo-D3: not predictable
 430 2012-05-31 13:58:22 <luke-jr_> https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42980
 431 2012-05-31 13:58:28 <Diablo-D3> huh, might be a failure to roll a counter over
 432 2012-05-31 13:58:44 <luke-jr_> no, page fault when the kernel can't handle it
 433 2012-05-31 13:58:46 <luke-jr_> or something like that
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 435 2012-05-31 13:59:13 <Diablo-D3> huh, wonder why its doing that
 436 2012-05-31 13:59:21 <luke-jr_> https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42980#c5
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 440 2012-05-31 14:15:39 <gavinandresen> I've been thinking about lower-level RPC commands for creating/sending transactions, looking for feedback:  https://gist.github.com/2839617
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 443 2012-05-31 14:18:59 <sipa> gavinandresen: i was thinking about something even more low-level; have one "transaction being prepared" in memory, and have commands for 1) adding outputs 2) adding inputs (which become temporarily locked) 3) "completing" a transaction (add inputs so net balance is positive) 4) dumping the constructed transaction as hex/base64 5) broadcasting it 6) aborting it
 444 2012-05-31 14:20:19 <gavinandresen> I'd like to keep the RPC interface stateless
 445 2012-05-31 14:20:45 <gavinandresen> ... so I don't like the 'transaction being prepared' bit
 446 2012-05-31 14:20:48 <sipa> hmm, that's probably better indeed
 447 2012-05-31 14:21:15 <gavinandresen> A way to mark inputs as "don't use" might be good, but I'm not sure it is necessary
 448 2012-05-31 14:21:39 <gavinandresen> If you're using the low-level RPC calls then you can probably keep track of that yourself.
 449 2012-05-31 14:22:18 <gavinandresen> (and if you're using the low-level RPC then you probably shouldn't combine it with the high-level sends anwyay)
 450 2012-05-31 14:23:15 <sipa> there are two layers probably; one where you just supply all transaction information yourself, and only use the keystore part of the wallet to create signatures
 451 2012-05-31 14:23:19 <gavinandresen> I should add "Testing/Debugging" as one of the motivating use cases
 452 2012-05-31 14:23:36 <sipa> and another that does use the wallet as a transaction store for creating them
 453 2012-05-31 14:24:30 <gavinandresen> There will be a third layer, too, of people who keep the private keys out of bitcoind and just want it to act as an interface to the network.
 454 2012-05-31 14:25:01 <sipa> true, but there's already jeff's  sendrawtx for that
 455 2012-05-31 14:25:20 <gavinandresen> I need to look at jgarzik's transaction filter notification stuff a little harder, that plus sendrawtx might be sufficient for that third style of use
 456 2012-05-31 14:25:42 <gavinandresen> RE: sendrawtx : any objection to having it return the txid instead of 'true' ?
 457 2012-05-31 14:26:14 <sipa> if you want that third layer, you probably don't want to bother using rpc commands to construct; you'll want a bitcoin library to build it
 458 2012-05-31 14:26:20 <sipa> i don't care
 459 2012-05-31 14:26:43 <sipa> if you call sendrawtx, you can hash it yourself too, so returning the hash doesn't add much functionality, but it may be useful
 460 2012-05-31 14:26:57 <gavinandresen> I just like consistency with the other send commands.
 461 2012-05-31 14:27:08 <kinlo> is it possible to use the same format of bip10 for those things?  ie, regardless of the fact that multisigs are used, I'd think a createtransaction can be used to create a TxDP just by specifying the input tx'es and outputs, then a seperate signwhatever you can, and finally a submitSignedTxDP
 462 2012-05-31 14:27:34 <gavinandresen> kinlo: I've got issues with BIP 10....
 463 2012-05-31 14:28:03 <kinlo> I liked it after reading it - I'd love to hear your issues
 464 2012-05-31 14:28:52 <gavinandresen> My big issue with BIP 10 is why invent Yet Another Serialization Format?  We've already got JSON and the network serialization format.
 465 2012-05-31 14:29:04 <sipa> and base58, and base64, and hex
 466 2012-05-31 14:29:18 <kinlo> true
 467 2012-05-31 14:29:26 <sipa> (for addresses/secrets, signatures, and pubkeys, respectively)
 468 2012-05-31 14:29:49 <gavinandresen> I see a distinction between encodings and formats, but yeah, we've got too many
 469 2012-05-31 14:30:18 <kinlo> I guess json would be the way to go
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 471 2012-05-31 14:30:28 <sipa> gavinandresen: by the way, any further comments on #1389? i know you didn't like the variable defaults sometimes, but i think they do what people would expect and won't hurt people who aren't aware of changes
 472 2012-05-31 14:30:33 <kinlo> much easier to parse, more standard libraries, same for base64
 473 2012-05-31 14:30:42 <gavinandresen> I'm proposing using the network serialization, hex-encoded, for the RPC.
 474 2012-05-31 14:32:07 <gavinandresen> RE: 1389 :  I'll look at it again.  Is there a "run inside tor" meta-argument that just sets a bunch of other flags?  That's the direction I think makes sense
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 476 2012-05-31 14:33:21 <sipa> gavinandresen: in a discussion with gmaxwell we came to the conclusion that all tor-specific defaults make sense anytime you are behind a proxy (not just tor), so just -proxy=<tor> will give you what you expect
 477 2012-05-31 14:34:10 <sipa> mainly not listening when behind a proxy
 478 2012-05-31 14:35:03 <sipa> gavinandresen: i wonder; this network-serialized prepared transaction... i suppose with potentially missing signatures in it
 479 2012-05-31 14:35:49 <sipa> you're going to need to deserialize, sign, and serialize again, since the size of the signature isn't necessarily known in advance
 480 2012-05-31 14:36:33 <sipa> i wonder if it should be allowed to have entire missing txins?
 481 2012-05-31 14:37:33 <gavinandresen> RE: 1389: lines of code like this make me not like it:  fNoListen = !GetBoolArg("-listen", mapArgs.count("-bind") || (!mapArgs.count("-connect") && !fProxy));
 482 2012-05-31 14:38:25 <gavinandresen> ... maybe I'm just getting old and grumpy
 483 2012-05-31 14:38:44 <sipa> (i'm open to discussing whether -connect should influence -listen; i always assumed it did, and others too, but apparently that wasn't the case)
 484 2012-05-31 14:39:24 <sipa> however if you specify -bind you definitely want listening, and if you specificy -proxy, you typically don't (and changing that would hurt privacy of people already running behind tor)
 485 2012-05-31 14:40:47 <sipa> https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/blob/e65a3e50b8885148196a6b9c83bebeded57d0eb8/doc/Tor.txt -> that's the Tor documentation file, assuming #1389
 486 2012-05-31 14:42:04 <gavinandresen> sipa: I'm not arguing about the logic of what switches on/off what, I'm just saying I like the SoftSetBoolArg() approach better because it makes it much clearer what influences what.
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 488 2012-05-31 14:42:35 <gavinandresen> e.g. if (proxy set) then SoftSetBoolArg("-listen", 0); SoftSetBoolArg("whatever else", 1), etc
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 490 2012-05-31 14:43:05 <sipa> oh, really? i hate softsetboolarg - you have to go check the order in which soft sets are done, and then check the line where the actual argument is requested again
 491 2012-05-31 14:44:41 <sipa> here the entire logic that influences an option is in one line
 492 2012-05-31 14:44:50 <gavinandresen> one impenetrable line
 493 2012-05-31 14:44:54 <sipa> personal preference, i suppose - i can change it to softset
 494 2012-05-31 14:45:58 <gavinandresen> One line is ok if there was a comment explaining what happens if I set -proxy=foo
 495 2012-05-31 14:46:17 <sipa> that's in the help output :)
 496 2012-05-31 14:47:02 <gavinandresen> where?
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 499 2012-05-31 14:47:24 <gavinandresen> "  -port=<port>           " + _("Listen for connections on <port> (default: 8333 or testnet: 18333)") + "\n"
 500 2012-05-31 14:47:47 <gavinandresen> Oh, I see, scattered throughout the description of the other options.  That's my objection....
 501 2012-05-31 14:47:49 <sipa>         "  -listen                " + _("Accept connections from outside (default: 1 if no -proxy or -connect)") + "\n" +
 502 2012-05-31 14:48:30 <sipa> i think we reached the point of contest: you want a description of the form "setting X changes the defaults for Y and Z"
 503 2012-05-31 14:48:36 <gavinandresen> I don't want to have to read through every option to figure out that -proxy=foo turns off listen, turns off upnp, turns off -discover, etc etc etc
 504 2012-05-31 14:48:57 <gavinandresen> sipa: Yes.  In the code as a comment at the very least
 505 2012-05-31 14:49:04 <sipa> i have a description of the form "options X, Y influence the default for Z"
 506 2012-05-31 14:49:40 <BlueMatt> you should be reading through the help output for each option you are passing
 507 2012-05-31 14:49:45 <BlueMatt> or, assuming people do is ok imho
 508 2012-05-31 14:51:46 <sipa> well, -proxy influences -listen; -bind influences -listen; -connect influences -listen; -listen influences -discover and -upnp; -externalip influences -discover
 509 2012-05-31 14:51:53 <sipa> that's it, i think
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 515 2012-05-31 14:53:48 <gavinandresen> is -listen changing with ipv6 ?  Or how is listening on more than one network handled?
 516 2012-05-31 14:54:40 <sipa> -listen just defines whether you want to listen at all or not
 517 2012-05-31 14:55:35 <sipa> you can use -bind to select which addresses to listen on (by default: 0.0.0.0:port if ipv4 is not disbled, [::]:port is ipv6 is not disabled; typically both enabled)
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 525 2012-05-31 14:56:24 <gavinandresen> I see, so -bind turns listen on and -proxy turns it off?
 526 2012-05-31 14:56:31 <sipa> yes
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 528 2012-05-31 14:57:08 <gavinandresen> ... and if I specify them both....
 529 2012-05-31 14:57:32 <splatster> gavinandresen: All hell breaks loose.
 530 2012-05-31 14:57:34 <sipa> bind wins; -bind just doesn't make sense without listening
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 532 2012-05-31 14:58:14 <gavinandresen> bind+proxy doesn't make sense?  I couldn't proxy my ipv4 connection but have a direct ipv6 ?
 533 2012-05-31 14:58:46 <sipa> bind is for incoming connections, proxy is for outgoing
 534 2012-05-31 14:59:11 <sipa> and sure bind+proxy makes sense; i'm just saying that if you specify both, you will listen, as -bind wins
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 536 2012-05-31 14:59:43 tcatm has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 537 2012-05-31 15:00:03 <sipa> (for now there is no way to specify separate proxies for outgoing ipv4 and ipv6; internally, you can, but there is no cmdline interface for that (yet)
 538 2012-05-31 15:00:41 <sipa> fNoListen = !GetBoolArg("-listen",  mapArgs.count("-bind") || (!mapArgs.count("-connect") && !fProxy));
 539 2012-05-31 15:01:03 allied has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 540 2012-05-31 15:01:15 <sipa> -> you're listening by default if -bind is given, or if neither -proxy and -connect are given
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 548 2012-05-31 15:04:09 <sipa> gavinandresen: anyway, do you envision that serialized transaction format to support missing txins?
 549 2012-05-31 15:04:22 <sipa> (as opposed to just missing signatures)
 550 2012-05-31 15:05:00 <gavinandresen> sipa: missing txins: no, you need placeholder OP_0's for missing signatures
 551 2012-05-31 15:05:30 <gavinandresen> ... that seems like the simplest possible thing that will work
 552 2012-05-31 15:05:54 <sipa> but you don't know the size of a signature in advance, right?
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 554 2012-05-31 15:06:13 <gavinandresen> Right...  so yes, you have to deserialize then reseralize, but that's not a big deal.
 555 2012-05-31 15:06:37 <sipa> right; if you need to deserialize and reserialize, i wonder if it's not better to keep them separate until they can be combined once
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 557 2012-05-31 15:06:57 <gavinandresen> I was waffling on that, too.
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 559 2012-05-31 15:07:09 <sipa> as deserializing (any transaction) is more complex than serializing the subset of transactions you support yourself
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 561 2012-05-31 15:07:32 <gavinandresen> Coming up with a good JSON syntax for the signatures isn't obvious, though
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 566 2012-05-31 15:08:28 <gavinandresen> RE: deserializing ANY:  ah, no, signrawtx would only sign standard transactions
 567 2012-05-31 15:08:53 <gavinandresen> signing arbitrary transactions that you don't understand seems to me would ALWAYS be a bad idea
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 569 2012-05-31 15:09:30 <sipa> you probably want to at least understand what the outputs are doing
 570 2012-05-31 15:09:43 <gavinandresen> definitely
 571 2012-05-31 15:10:01 <sipa> but i think there is use for transactions where there is a txin from someone else you do not understand
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 573 2012-05-31 15:10:42 <gavinandresen> The signrawtx code would ignore any inputs that are already correctly signed
 574 2012-05-31 15:10:50 <sipa> right
 575 2012-05-31 15:10:53 <gavinandresen> ... so if the txin is from somebody else then there's no issue
 576 2012-05-31 15:11:30 <sipa> right
 577 2012-05-31 15:11:42 <gavinandresen> Do you mean "from somebody else but you need to provide a signature" ?
 578 2012-05-31 15:11:57 <sipa> no, i meant "signed or to be signed by someone else"
 579 2012-05-31 15:12:44 <gavinandresen> I think ignoring non-standard txins that aren't signed would be the right thing to do...
 580 2012-05-31 15:12:57 <sipa> probably
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 582 2012-05-31 15:13:38 <sipa> no, it probably doesn't matter much whether you serialize the entire transaction before transport
 583 2012-05-31 15:13:41 <gavinandresen> Are there cases where you'd care about where the bitcoins are coming from?  I can't really think of any
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 585 2012-05-31 15:15:11 <sipa> but would there be a use for txins that are missing entirely?
 586 2012-05-31 15:15:23 <sipa> as-in: to be filled by someone else (before any signing is done)
 587 2012-05-31 15:16:17 <sipa> that would extend the usage of the format to an earlier stage as well
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 594 2012-05-31 15:17:57 <gavinandresen> Hmm... that might "just work", I don't think signrawtx needs to care if all the txins are present or not.
 595 2012-05-31 15:18:20 <sipa> you mean: serialize the missing txins just as zero bytes?
 596 2012-05-31 15:19:00 MiningBuddy has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 597 2012-05-31 15:19:22 <gavinandresen> I was thinking of serializing a smaller vin.size... but vin.size is signed by SIGHASH_ALL, so that wouldn't work
 598 2012-05-31 15:19:39 <sipa> it would certainly be easier to debug if a format was used similar to gettransaction's RPC output now, with inputs and outputs decomposed, and scripts given as hex strings
 599 2012-05-31 15:19:58 Jezzz_ has joined
 600 2012-05-31 15:20:07 <gavinandresen> printrawtx would be an easy RPC to write
 601 2012-05-31 15:20:15 MiningBuddy has joined
 602 2012-05-31 15:20:39 <gavinandresen> scripts could even be decoded to be human-readable.
 603 2012-05-31 15:20:43 <sipa> sure, but if that were used as transmission format, you could just leave out a script or a txin if you don't have it yet
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 607 2012-05-31 15:21:17 <sipa> that said, i'm not sure if it's wise to force the complexity of json serialization to every piece of code that needs to interact with this
 608 2012-05-31 15:21:21 <gavinandresen> This discussion should have happened before pulling sendrawtx into git HEAD
 609 2012-05-31 15:21:23 Jezzz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 610 2012-05-31 15:21:56 <sipa> i think it's certainly useful in its current form
 611 2012-05-31 15:22:09 eps has joined
 612 2012-05-31 15:22:12 <gavinandresen> agreed, I just like RPC calls to be consistent with each other
 613 2012-05-31 15:22:13 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: why 'sendrawtx' and not 'sendtx'?
 614 2012-05-31 15:22:25 <gavinandresen> ThomasV: ask jgarzik
 615 2012-05-31 15:22:38 <sipa> agree, more discussion may have been useful
 616 2012-05-31 15:23:16 Wack0 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 617 2012-05-31 15:23:16 coderrr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 618 2012-05-31 15:23:37 <gavinandresen> ThomasV: I'm guessing the 'raw' is to make it clear that you're working without a net, and can easily send bitcoins into a black hole if you're not very careful
 619 2012-05-31 15:23:57 <ThomasV> ic
 620 2012-05-31 15:24:15 <sipa> that call is imho to just "inject a transaction into the network", without any wallet handling that interacts
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 629 2012-05-31 15:27:03 <Diablo-D3> SpaceX Dragon splashdown in 20 minutes
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 634 2012-05-31 15:31:22 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: do you also plan a rpc to get the list of unconfirmed transactions? something like getmemorypool, but without block restrictions
 635 2012-05-31 15:31:27 weather is now known as BeTep
 636 2012-05-31 15:32:01 <sipa> ThomasV: you can use gettransaction on memorypool transactions in current git head
 637 2012-05-31 15:32:13 <sipa> though there's no way to get a list of memorypool txid's...
 638 2012-05-31 15:32:32 <ThomasV> sipa: how does it work?
 639 2012-05-31 15:32:57 <sipa> give txid, get json-decomposed transaction
 640 2012-05-31 15:33:09 <gavinandresen> ThomasV: no plans, what is that needed for?
 641 2012-05-31 15:33:18 <ThomasV> sipa: oh that's not what I was asking
 642 2012-05-31 15:34:07 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: for Electrum servers. there are two things that I currently need to patch. one is 'sendtx', the other is getmemorypool
 643 2012-05-31 15:34:31 <sipa> well, as i said, there's no way to get the list of current memory pool transactions
 644 2012-05-31 15:35:03 <gavinandresen> getmemorypool doesn't return the list of current memory pool transactions?  that's dumb.
 645 2012-05-31 15:35:04 <sipa> TD already suggested a P2P command to request those, though
 646 2012-05-31 15:35:21 <sipa> gavinandresen: getmemorypool really is just getwork extended edition
 647 2012-05-31 15:35:25 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: well, the name is indeed misleading
 648 2012-05-31 15:35:29 <gavinandresen> who designed getmemorypool anyway....
 649 2012-05-31 15:36:06 <sipa> getmemorypool should be named getminingdata or something
 650 2012-05-31 15:36:58 <gavinandresen> Seems like extending getmemorypool with a new field that IS a list of all transaction ids in the memory pool might be the right thing to do.  But I don't know nuthin about getwork/getmemorypool
 651 2012-05-31 15:37:12 <sipa> too few people do
 652 2012-05-31 15:37:54 <sipa> and i don't agree; that command (apart from its misleading name) is what someone calls who wants to create blocks; he doesn't need to know the memory pool for that
 653 2012-05-31 15:38:03 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 654 2012-05-31 15:38:30 <ThomasV> it would be easy just to add an option to that command
 655 2012-05-31 15:39:19 <sipa> i think it should be a separate command - its purpose would be entirely different
 656 2012-05-31 15:39:20 <gavinandresen> doesn't luke have a proposal for extended getmemorypool ?
 657 2012-05-31 15:39:44 <sipa> how about reallygetmemorypool? ;)
 658 2012-05-31 15:39:51 <ThomasV> yes, I remember he had a proposal. I forgot exactly what it was
 659 2012-05-31 15:40:02 <sipa> well, BIP 22 describes it
 660 2012-05-31 15:40:36 BlueMatt has joined
 661 2012-05-31 15:41:10 <ThomasV> oh yes, bip 22 has options that allow to actually request the memory pool
 662 2012-05-31 15:41:36 <sipa> does it?
 663 2012-05-31 15:41:40 rebroad has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 664 2012-05-31 15:41:48 <ThomasV> yes, last time I checked
 665 2012-05-31 15:42:00 rebroad has joined
 666 2012-05-31 15:42:05 <ThomasV> (sizelimit, sigoplimit)
 667 2012-05-31 15:42:37 <sipa> that will still build a full block for you, not just report transactions
 668 2012-05-31 15:43:30 <ThomasV> it returns a json with the list of transactions
 669 2012-05-31 15:43:48 rebroad has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 670 2012-05-31 15:43:53 <ThomasV> it's fine with me
 671 2012-05-31 15:44:12 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: getmemorypool (BIP 22) supports listing txids, but git master isn't compliant until #936 is merged ;P
 672 2012-05-31 15:44:25 <ThomasV> if that plus sentrawtx get implemented, I will no longer need to patch bitcoind
 673 2012-05-31 15:44:30 <sipa> i really wonder whether everything in bip22 is necessary
 674 2012-05-31 15:44:38 rebroad has joined
 675 2012-05-31 15:44:44 <luke-jr> sipa: because you prefer proprietary p2pool
 676 2012-05-31 15:45:08 <sipa> luke-jr: will you stop putting words in my mouth?
 677 2012-05-31 15:45:19 <sipa> (not sure if that is correct in english)
 678 2012-05-31 15:46:06 <luke-jr> sipa: well, that's how it sounds to me
 679 2012-05-31 15:46:14 <sipa> i don't understand that
 680 2012-05-31 15:46:16 <gavinandresen> I think the correct expression is "putting his foot in your mouth."   (KIDDING)
 681 2012-05-31 15:46:32 <sipa> sure, i like p2pool, that's no secret
 682 2012-05-31 15:46:52 <sipa> but i also want a good standard for negotiating block creation to be implemented
 683 2012-05-31 15:47:35 <sipa> i also have little problems with the code in #936 currently, but i fear about bip22's adoption if it becomes too complex to support
 684 2012-05-31 15:47:46 <drizztbsd> sipa: I'll like more a p2pool made in a sane language :)
 685 2012-05-31 15:48:01 <drizztbsd> (p2pool actually needs a "strong" cpu)
 686 2012-05-31 15:49:19 <sipa> luke-jr: also, as p2pool uses bip22 right now (an earlier version of it), i don't see how i could prefer p2pool to bip22...
 687 2012-05-31 15:49:49 <luke-jr> sipa: yes, but you can "skip" lots of BIP22 if you only support the single functionality use-case that p2pool does
 688 2012-05-31 15:50:20 <gavinandresen> for the record, I hate so-called "standards" that let you skip lots of stuff
 689 2012-05-31 15:51:00 <gavinandresen> "do or do not, there is no try"  or something
 690 2012-05-31 15:51:38 <sipa> luke-jr: ok; by all means, i prefer that rpc to be as widely usable as possible - but without 50 optional keywords people may choose to implement or not
 691 2012-05-31 15:51:54 <gavinandresen> I agree with sipa.  And yoda.
 692 2012-05-31 15:52:06 <sipa> that said, i don't know enough about it, so i will shut up and leave the decision to others
 693 2012-05-31 15:52:30 <luke-jr> why waste the bandwidth on a bunch of empty arrays and zeros?
 694 2012-05-31 15:52:32 <Diablo-D3> hey guys, a reminder: Diablo Mining Company's dividend payoyt is tommorow
 695 2012-05-31 15:53:03 <sipa> gavinandresen: more to say have you?
 696 2012-05-31 15:53:11 <gavinandresen> :)
 697 2012-05-31 15:53:33 <gavinandresen> So luke-jr : is there a discussion of the changes to getmemorypool somewhere on the forums or in bitcoin-dev ?
 698 2012-05-31 15:53:33 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: are there any dividends yet? O.o
 699 2012-05-31 15:53:45 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: uh, yes?
 700 2012-05-31 15:53:47 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: there was at least 2 ML threads
 701 2012-05-31 15:53:54 <gavinandresen> ML ?
 702 2012-05-31 15:53:57 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: mailing list
 703 2012-05-31 15:53:59 <gavinandresen> oh, mailing list
 704 2012-05-31 15:54:02 <sipa> haha
 705 2012-05-31 15:54:11 <luke-jr> probably came up a few times here and #p2pool too
 706 2012-05-31 15:54:13 <gavinandresen> I was thinking the language.....
 707 2012-05-31 15:54:36 <sipa> does ML even support threads? ;)
 708 2012-05-31 15:57:27 <t7> SML is bloated as poo so i guess so
 709 2012-05-31 15:58:44 t7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 710 2012-05-31 16:02:14 <luke-jr> (btw, as far as optional noncerange support, I agree it should simply be required, but that creates practical problems for some miners)
 711 2012-05-31 16:02:51 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: I don't understand what this line of code is doing: if (strMethod == "getmemorypool"          && n > 0 && params[0].get_str()[0] == '{') ConvertTo<Object>(params[0]);
 712 2012-05-31 16:03:23 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: converting a commandline parameter starting with '{' to an object
 713 2012-05-31 16:03:43 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: gmp(object) gets a template; gmp(data, object) submits a block
 714 2012-05-31 16:03:44 <gavinandresen> but it is left as a string if it doesn't start with a {
 715 2012-05-31 16:03:49 TD[gone] has joined
 716 2012-05-31 16:03:55 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: yes, for the data case
 717 2012-05-31 16:04:07 <gavinandresen> and you get a crash if you pass "" as the first argument?
 718 2012-05-31 16:04:18 <luke-jr> an error
 719 2012-05-31 16:04:32 <luke-jr> (it's an error in any case)
 720 2012-05-31 16:04:58 <luke-jr> actually, it doesn't even error there
 721 2012-05-31 16:05:32 <sipa> luke-jr: i'm not convinced about noncerange's necessity at all
 722 2012-05-31 16:05:37 * luke-jr ponders if it's defined as '\0' or not
 723 2012-05-31 16:07:38 TD[gone]` has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 724 2012-05-31 16:07:45 <gavinandresen> I'd have to be more of a language lawyer to figure out if std::string("")[0] might crash on some implementation.
 725 2012-05-31 16:08:00 darsk1ez has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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 727 2012-05-31 16:09:41 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: if it matters, I can check; it's invalid either way, and shouldn't create problems in any case I can imagine
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 729 2012-05-31 16:09:53 <gavinandresen> the old getmemorypool behavior is either call it with no arguments (to get data to work on) or with one argument (to submit a block) ?
 730 2012-05-31 16:11:20 <luke-jr> yes
 731 2012-05-31 16:11:27 <gavinandresen> I really don't like looking at the first character of the string to determine whether or not it is a JSON object.
 732 2012-05-31 16:11:45 <luke-jr> well, it's just for the commandline testing tool; real applications would send an Object outright
 733 2012-05-31 16:11:59 <gavinandresen> How about making params always the second argument, and if you want to get data to work on you pass "" {params}
 734 2012-05-31 16:13:04 <gavinandresen> (or pass nothing if you have no params)
 735 2012-05-31 16:13:08 <luke-jr> I suppose that could work, though a bit ugly IMO (and forces me to reimplement it everywhere…)
 736 2012-05-31 16:13:40 <luke-jr> bitcoind-as-test-client implementation issues shouldn't really be a deciding factor IMO
 737 2012-05-31 16:13:49 <gavinandresen> Ugly is "the first param is sometimes a string and sometimes an object and is sometimes interpreted as block data and sometimes as params ...."
 738 2012-05-31 16:14:03 <gavinandresen> (imho)
 739 2012-05-31 16:14:43 <luke-jr> more like, an optional data parameter
 740 2012-05-31 16:14:45 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 741 2012-05-31 16:14:59 <gavinandresen> You're not following the JSON spec, either, because whitespace before the { is OK
 742 2012-05-31 16:15:27 <luke-jr> bitcoind-as-client doesn't take JSON as parameters, in most cases
 743 2012-05-31 16:15:36 <luke-jr> if it did, things would be much more straightforward here
 744 2012-05-31 16:16:00 <luke-jr> (we could just parse params as JSON)
 745 2012-05-31 16:16:52 <luke-jr> (to clarify, gmp("", params) is ugly because data is not really optional anymore even when it makes no sense to have it)
 746 2012-05-31 16:17:28 <sipa> the point is that you're accepting a parameter that is either object-json-encoded-as-string, or object
 747 2012-05-31 16:17:28 <gavinandresen> "" means "There is no data."  That seems pretty clear to me.
 748 2012-05-31 16:17:46 <luke-jr> sipa: not in BIP22, just a test tool
 749 2012-05-31 16:17:46 <sipa> is that code at the command-line handling point, or inside gmp?
 750 2012-05-31 16:19:02 * luke-jr would almost be inclined to make data part of params… gmp({"mode":"submit","data":"…"}), but that requires the same thing for backward compat
 751 2012-05-31 16:19:04 wladston has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 752 2012-05-31 16:19:28 <luke-jr> I suppose gmp(null, params) would be reasonable
 753 2012-05-31 16:19:45 <luke-jr> can we match "" and send null?
 754 2012-05-31 16:20:18 <luke-jr> (actually, bitcoind-as-client could always match "" and skip the parameter?)
 755 2012-05-31 16:22:36 <rebroad> just rebased this (https://github.com/rebroad/bitcoin/compare/ParallelBlockDownload) so that the QuietInitial code goes first... much less messier, and more logical, IMHO...
 756 2012-05-31 16:22:53 <rebroad> I wish I knew how to git rebase -i -p so that the merges are kept in the history...
 757 2012-05-31 16:23:24 <luke-jr> so, best possibilities IMO are: 1) leave it alone, since bitcoind-as-test-tool is already pick-and-choose for parameter parsing; 2) check for "" in bitcoind-as-test-tool and skip the parameter in that case; 3) require null data for BIP 22 requests
 758 2012-05-31 16:23:29 <sipa> rebroad: i don't see why you're including all these changes in a pullreq about parallel block download
 759 2012-05-31 16:23:31 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: do you like any of those?
 760 2012-05-31 16:23:35 ThomasV has joined
 761 2012-05-31 16:23:52 <rebroad> sipa: well, the commits after the parallel can go.. they're just there to make testing easier..
 762 2012-05-31 16:24:04 <rebroad> the commits before i think should stay as they're so integrated with the rest of it
 763 2012-05-31 16:24:31 <rebroad> testing easier for me, that is, with my flaky internet connection :)
 764 2012-05-31 16:24:55 <rebroad> it doesn't have much impact on anyone else, unless they include the command line options provided.
 765 2012-05-31 16:25:57 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: I liked the gmp(null, params) idea, although I don't see why you're against treating null and the empty string the same way.   ./bitcoind getmemorypool null '{....}' would be fine with me, and shouldn't be hard to make work
 766 2012-05-31 16:26:43 <gavinandresen> (if params[0].get_str() == "null"  then params[0] = ... whatever the null object is in json_spirit)
 767 2012-05-31 16:27:00 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: because it complicates the standard even more. I don't see why the protocol should be complicated for a mere testing tool. :p
 768 2012-05-31 16:27:21 rebroad has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 769 2012-05-31 16:27:34 <sipa> is that special casing based on the first character being '{' in the command-line handling code, or inside gmp?
 770 2012-05-31 16:27:40 * luke-jr wonders if anyone has actually ever used bitcoind-test-tool to submit a block
 771 2012-05-31 16:27:47 <luke-jr> sipa: in the commandline handling code
 772 2012-05-31 16:27:53 <sipa> i have no problem with that
 773 2012-05-31 16:28:29 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 774 2012-05-31 16:28:53 <gavinandresen> I don't like it.  We'll get "  why doesn't it work when I run ./bitcoind ' { foo }' " and we'll all scratch our heads for an hour or two before we notice the space before the quote
 775 2012-05-31 16:29:02 <gavinandresen> ^before^after
 776 2012-05-31 16:30:16 <sipa> meh, it's only for testing purposes anyway
 777 2012-05-31 16:30:45 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 778 2012-05-31 16:31:02 <luke-jr> Boost probably has some strip method, if we really care to tolerate spaces…
 779 2012-05-31 16:31:04 dvide_ has quit ()
 780 2012-05-31 16:31:09 <luke-jr> or C++ rather
 781 2012-05-31 16:31:18 <gavinandresen> bleuch
 782 2012-05-31 16:32:33 <luke-jr> http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_49_0/doc/html/string_algo/usage.html#id3183616
 783 2012-05-31 16:33:33 <gavinandresen> Ok, you've convinced me, I like your option (2) -- skip ""
 784 2012-05-31 16:33:53 <luke-jr> k *goes to adjust code*
 785 2012-05-31 16:35:17 D34TH has joined
 786 2012-05-31 16:35:22 agricocb has joined
 787 2012-05-31 16:35:23 <D34TH> ok so wubi didnt work
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 791 2012-05-31 16:38:14 <luke-jr> if (strMethod == "getmemorypool"          && n > 0 && params[0].get_str().empty()) params.erase(params.begin());
 792 2012-05-31 16:38:16 <luke-jr> ^ look good?
 793 2012-05-31 16:38:44 <gavinandresen> bleuch.  I mean, yes, looks good.
 794 2012-05-31 16:40:08 <gavinandresen> Does that match the BIP 22 spec?  I added a comment to it's discussion page just now, it doesn't seem to say that the first param might be an Object of parameters.
 795 2012-05-31 16:40:42 <gavinandresen> (which gets back to why I don't like the "if the first param is a string then do this otherwise do that" design)
 796 2012-05-31 16:41:00 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: only param*
 797 2012-05-31 16:41:24 <gavinandresen> ?
 798 2012-05-31 16:41:47 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: the first parameter is data, but it's optional
 799 2012-05-31 16:42:41 <gavinandresen> ok.  So how do I leave the first parameter out and specify only the second?
 800 2012-05-31 16:42:59 <luke-jr> by only specifying the second
 801 2012-05-31 16:43:17 <gavinandresen> But then it isn't the second, it is the first.....
 802 2012-05-31 16:43:48 <luke-jr> the first was omitted
 803 2012-05-31 16:43:55 <gavinandresen> there is no spoon
 804 2012-05-31 16:44:23 <gavinandresen> The spec says:  "The second argument is an Object of request parameters."
 805 2012-05-31 16:44:40 <gavinandresen> Implying that if, and only if, there is a second argument....
 806 2012-05-31 16:45:17 <luke-jr> it's referring to the fixed set of arguments (data, params), either or both of which may be omitted in the call
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 810 2012-05-31 16:46:36 <gavinandresen> Look, I'm trying to tell you that somebody reading the BIP 22 spec can interpret it differently than the way you intend.
 811 2012-05-31 16:46:38 <gavinandresen> And that is a problem.
 812 2012-05-31 16:47:03 <luke-jr> "It accepts two arguments, both of which are optional and may be omitted from calls." <-- clearer?
 813 2012-05-31 16:47:50 <gavinandresen> No
 814 2012-05-31 16:48:28 <gavinandresen> What happens if the first argument is not a string, but the second object IS an object?
 815 2012-05-31 16:48:51 <gavinandresen> e.g. I call   getmemorypool(null, {...})
 816 2012-05-31 16:49:13 <gavinandresen> what I fi call  getmemorypool({...}, {....} )
 817 2012-05-31 16:49:31 <gavinandresen> how about (null, null)  ?
 818 2012-05-31 16:50:56 <luke-jr> they're not valid?
 819 2012-05-31 16:51:10 <gavinandresen> where does it say that in the spec?
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 821 2012-05-31 16:51:40 <luke-jr> "The second argument is an Object of request parameters."
 822 2012-05-31 16:52:03 * luke-jr also notes each "mode" has its own call spec demonstrating
 823 2012-05-31 16:52:14 <gavinandresen> (null, { ... } )   <-- second argument IS a Object....
 824 2012-05-31 16:53:49 <luke-jr> "If the first argument is provided, is is a String…" <-- fixed?
 825 2012-05-31 16:54:18 <gavinandresen> Ok, so how do I provide a second argument if I don't provide a first argument?
 826 2012-05-31 16:54:41 <luke-jr> just provide the second argument
 827 2012-05-31 16:54:53 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0022#Block_Template_Request
 828 2012-05-31 16:55:09 <gavinandresen> Anybody else banging their head against the desk at this point ?
 829 2012-05-31 16:55:33 * luke-jr <--
 830 2012-05-31 16:55:50 <gavinandresen> foo(a,b)  :  a is the first argument.  b is the second.   foo(b) : b is now the first argument.
 831 2012-05-31 16:56:56 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, my desk would break
 832 2012-05-31 16:57:02 <phantomcircuit> cheap ikea stuff
 833 2012-05-31 16:57:15 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: is there a way you think it could be phrased better?
 834 2012-05-31 16:58:11 <gavinandresen> I think the real problem is overloading the method based on argument types
 835 2012-05-31 16:59:54 <gavinandresen> But if you really want, then say "If the first argument is a string, then blah.  If it is an object, then blah.  If it is neither, then error."
 836 2012-05-31 17:00:08 <luke-jr> but it's talking about two distinct arguments which are always the same.
 837 2012-05-31 17:04:08 <gavinandresen> If it is hard to write a precise description of what it does then that's a sign of mis-design.  To be absolutely precise, you'd need to say what happens for all of the first-arguement-is-or-is-not-an-object-or-a-string cases
 838 2012-05-31 17:04:35 <luke-jr> it's not hard. it's perfectly clear to me. I'm not sure why you think it's unclear, but I'm open to suggestions on how to make it better
 839 2012-05-31 17:05:27 <gavinandresen> sigh.  if you can't put yourself in other people's shoes and think of all the ways they might misinterpret your spec then I don't think you should be writing specs.
 840 2012-05-31 17:06:10 <luke-jr> does s/second/next/ help?
 841 2012-05-31 17:06:31 <gavinandresen> yes, that would probably help
 842 2012-05-31 17:07:18 * luke-jr doesn't see how anyone can misinterpret it when the individual modes are more explicit on their use
 843 2012-05-31 17:08:13 <luke-jr> also, new gmp_bip branch pushed
 844 2012-05-31 17:10:06 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 845 2012-05-31 17:10:48 <luke-jr> (with the bitcoind-as-test-tool param parsing change we discussed)
 846 2012-05-31 17:11:15 <kinlo> I'd rather see the spec saying "you must supply one parameter, an object, however, for backwards compatibility, gmp will perform a submit block if a string is given altough this is deprecated"
 847 2012-05-31 17:12:18 <gavinandresen> I like kinlo's idea.
 848 2012-05-31 17:12:34 <luke-jr> kinlo: 1) the string is required for submissions of any kind; 2) the BIP specifies the protocol, not a particular implementation ;)
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 851 2012-05-31 17:12:57 <luke-jr> (also, the separate submitblock method was done away with)
 852 2012-05-31 17:14:31 <kinlo> the string isn't required for submissions, you can both use the submitblock or say that the object must be {"submitblock":"XXXXX"} and unambiguisly define that it is a string to be submitting a block
 853 2012-05-31 17:15:34 <luke-jr> oh, you mean put it in the params Object?
 854 2012-05-31 17:15:40 <luke-jr> but tolerate it alone for compat
 855 2012-05-31 17:15:47 <kinlo> exactly
 856 2012-05-31 17:16:01 <kinlo> then there is no mis interpretation possible
 857 2012-05-31 17:16:44 <kinlo> for deprecated backwards compatibility, so people know they shouldn't keep using it
 858 2012-05-31 17:17:32 <luke-jr> forrestv: you there?
 859 2012-05-31 17:17:40 <kinlo> why is submitblock to be removed btw?
 860 2012-05-31 17:18:02 <luke-jr> kinlo: it was removed because people didn't like having another method for some reason
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 862 2012-05-31 17:19:04 <splatster> zomg! finally got sendmany to work!
 863 2012-05-31 17:19:20 <luke-jr> …
 864 2012-05-31 17:20:15 <splatster> luke-jr: So encoding the array in json format actually breaks it.
 865 2012-05-31 17:20:27 <luke-jr> …
 866 2012-05-31 17:20:32 <kinlo> splatster: ?
 867 2012-05-31 17:20:56 <kinlo> I use sendmany all the time and my code encodes everything in json and it works because that's how it should be done...
 868 2012-05-31 17:21:08 <splatster> sendmany('', array(address=>amount,...)) works.
 869 2012-05-31 17:21:24 <luke-jr> forrestv: when you get back… gavin and kinlo think gmp(data) should be moved to gmp({"data":data}); OK?
 870 2012-05-31 17:21:35 <splatster> but endmany('', json_encode(array(address=>amount,...))) doesn't work.
 871 2012-05-31 17:21:36 <luke-jr> splatster: erm, duh?
 872 2012-05-31 17:21:48 <kinlo> splatster: you're talking about a specific implementation
 873 2012-05-31 17:21:48 <BlueMatt> read the code for sendmant(...)
 874 2012-05-31 17:21:53 <splatster> luke-jr: Someone earlier told me I needed to json encode the array.
 875 2012-05-31 17:21:54 <BlueMatt> I guarantee you it calls json_encode
 876 2012-05-31 17:21:58 <kinlo> splatster: that library will do the encoding
 877 2012-05-31 17:21:58 <Eliel> splatster: well, duh, the framework you're using already handles json.
 878 2012-05-31 17:22:03 <luke-jr> splatster: well, you do, but that's a lower-level detail
 879 2012-05-31 17:22:23 <splatster> Ok, thanks for the highlights, I get it.
 880 2012-05-31 17:22:26 <kinlo> :p
 881 2012-05-31 17:22:35 <splatster> I screwed up, but was mislead to start with.
 882 2012-05-31 17:22:46 <luke-jr> splatster: you need to wrap it in a {"id":0,"method":"sendmany", …} too!
 883 2012-05-31 17:23:03 <kinlo> splatster: read the library you're using :)
 884 2012-05-31 17:23:09 <Eliel> splatster: not really misled, as the json encoding is needed.
 885 2012-05-31 17:23:26 <Eliel> splatster: it's just not something you need to worry about with the library you're using
 886 2012-05-31 17:23:28 <splatster> kinlo: Someone told me that for PHP, I needed to json_encode the array.
 887 2012-05-31 17:23:44 <Eliel> splatster: and that is true.
 888 2012-05-31 17:23:48 <kinlo> splatster: you do, but if the library does it for you, you are doing it implicitly
 889 2012-05-31 17:23:59 <D34TH> luke-jr: i feel like i should replace the contents of build-msw.txt with "Not even god can help you now."
 890 2012-05-31 17:24:18 <splatster> kinlo: They said I did and they were using the same jsonrpc library I was using.
 891 2012-05-31 17:24:20 <luke-jr> D34TH: sounds good
 892 2012-05-31 17:24:26 <splatster> but w/e.
 893 2012-05-31 17:24:40 <luke-jr> D34TH: or rather, "Only God can…"
 894 2012-05-31 17:24:52 <D34TH> lol
 895 2012-05-31 17:24:54 <splatster> 10 highlights later, I don't feel any better about telling you guys of my epiphany.
 896 2012-05-31 17:24:59 <D34TH> not even got can
 897 2012-05-31 17:25:04 <kinlo> splatster: hehe :p
 898 2012-05-31 17:25:06 <D34TH> god cant c++
 899 2012-05-31 17:25:09 <kinlo> splatster: what are you making?
 900 2012-05-31 17:25:11 <luke-jr> D34TH: I bet Satoshi (a Windows developer) couldn't compile on Windows <.<
 901 2012-05-31 17:25:17 <luke-jr> (now)
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 903 2012-05-31 17:25:31 <splatster> kinlo: It's just a payment script for a small little thing I'm running
 904 2012-05-31 17:25:36 <kinlo> ic
 905 2012-05-31 17:25:42 <splatster> I had it working with a loop of sendtoaddress
 906 2012-05-31 17:25:53 <splatster> then adding sendmany was supposed to help...
 907 2012-05-31 17:25:59 <Joric> luke-jr, no wonder, if it's not supposed to be compiled on windows at all
 908 2012-05-31 17:26:01 <splatster> and then it killed everything
 909 2012-05-31 17:26:02 <kinlo> does php have reliable variables to put floating points in for bitcoin payouts?
 910 2012-05-31 17:26:09 <splatster> and now I'm re-implementing it.
 911 2012-05-31 17:26:15 <kinlo> I would never create payment code in PHP
 912 2012-05-31 17:26:35 <splatster> kinlo: No, but round($amount, 8) works just as well.
 913 2012-05-31 17:26:48 <kinlo> I strongly dislike the fact that php converts by it self between integer and double values
 914 2012-05-31 17:26:56 <luke-jr> splatster: you're doing it wrong!
 915 2012-05-31 17:27:03 <luke-jr> :p
 916 2012-05-31 17:27:15 <luke-jr> $amount = round($btc * 1e8); <-- right way
 917 2012-05-31 17:27:25 <kinlo> I actually dislike that the RPC doesn't allow satoshi's as input value
 918 2012-05-31 17:27:33 <luke-jr> kinlo: it really should
 919 2012-05-31 17:27:36 <luke-jr> I wrote a patch for that once
 920 2012-05-31 17:27:38 <kinlo> I really dislike floating points, especially for money
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 922 2012-05-31 17:28:08 <kinlo> my code does everything in satoshi's, even in the database, only the rpc needs conversion
 923 2012-05-31 17:28:09 <luke-jr> in fact, I think it was my first bitcoind modification
 924 2012-05-31 17:28:17 <luke-jr> kinlo: even bitcoind does everything in satoshis :p
 925 2012-05-31 17:28:23 <luke-jr> and only converts for RPC
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 927 2012-05-31 17:28:28 <kinlo> luke-jr: I know...
 928 2012-05-31 17:28:34 <kinlo> that's why I dislike it
 929 2012-05-31 17:28:48 <luke-jr> so as soon as we break compat somewhere, be sure to move to ints :p
 930 2012-05-31 17:28:50 <splatster> luke-jr: I was also confused as to why amounts in the RPC client weren't in satoshis
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 932 2012-05-31 17:29:12 <luke-jr> splatster: fork it if you must :p
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 934 2012-05-31 17:29:30 <luke-jr> (but really, it's probably because it's non-trivial to do there)
 935 2012-05-31 17:29:34 <splatster> luke-jr: Too late, I already wrote it for doing it in double values.
 936 2012-05-31 17:29:41 <luke-jr> fail
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 938 2012-05-31 17:30:03 <splatster> then round() it just to be really really really sure
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 940 2012-05-31 17:32:26 <D34TH> heh
 941 2012-05-31 17:32:31 <D34TH> round(round())
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 949 2012-05-31 17:52:04 <Eliel> I modified jsonrpc library for python from jsonrpc.org to use Decimal instead of float when it decodes and encodes json :)
 950 2012-05-31 17:53:43 <luke-jr> Eliel: why not just use bitcoinrpc?
 951 2012-05-31 17:54:07 <Eliel> I didn't know of it.
 952 2012-05-31 17:59:48 <Eliel> but that looks like it'll be a drop-in replacement for this thing I built the code with.
 953 2012-05-31 18:06:25 <Joric> ThomasV, testing subscription process :) https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/mtgox-ticker/ there's a lot of requirements
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 955 2012-05-31 18:07:01 <ThomasV> Joric: oh buy you do not need to subscribe
 956 2012-05-31 18:08:45 <ThomasV> btw, I doubt they will review bitcoin related code. In fact, I will review it before giving the bounty :)
 957 2012-05-31 18:08:46 <Joric> still theres a load of details that could cause problems in the future (old/obsolete apis etc)
 958 2012-05-31 18:09:24 <Joric> ThomasV, i got 2 btc for that ticker )
 959 2012-05-31 18:09:37 <ThomasV> how far along are you for the electrum client?
 960 2012-05-31 18:11:01 <Joric> ThomasV, nowhere near the end i spend just a few days on it it's not functional atm
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 962 2012-05-31 18:12:48 <Joric> ThomasV, how far along are you for the well-formed json?
 963 2012-05-31 18:13:05 <ThomasV> I did not do anything
 964 2012-05-31 18:14:48 <ThomasV> but you may just use read/write the wallet in json if the current format causes trouble
 965 2012-05-31 18:15:09 <ThomasV> it's a minor point
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 969 2012-05-31 18:22:49 <BlueMatt> nice, we have several articles right at the top of the ieee spectrum article "The future of money"
 970 2012-05-31 18:25:18 MobiusL has joined
 971 2012-05-31 18:26:57 <Joric> bitcoinica's starting refunds, price's going up, col
 972 2012-05-31 18:28:20 <luke-jr> O.o
 973 2012-05-31 18:28:23 <luke-jr> how does that work
 974 2012-05-31 18:29:04 <BlueMatt> last I heard, they had lost their backups and couldnt pay...
 975 2012-05-31 18:29:50 <Joric> genjix wrote he's returning 80% to trusted customers today, i'm sure i considered trusted! :D
 976 2012-05-31 18:30:29 <Joric> topic https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=84042.0
 977 2012-05-31 18:36:33 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 978 2012-05-31 18:37:03 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: IIRC, they lost their user data (who had what balance), but had all the money
 979 2012-05-31 18:37:58 <BlueMatt> so how does payout work...
 980 2012-05-31 18:38:28 <Joric> you claim something not too much not too little they pay it to you
 981 2012-05-31 18:39:32 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: that's why it's just trusted people I guess
 982 2012-05-31 18:39:47 <BlueMatt> ok, so what does "trusted" mean?
 983 2012-05-31 18:39:55 hazek has joined
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 985 2012-05-31 18:40:48 <Joric> they measure it by a number of posts on bitcointalk
 986 2012-05-31 18:40:56 <Joric> well, not entirely, but still
 987 2012-05-31 18:41:15 <BlueMatt> I hope you are joking
 988 2012-05-31 18:41:30 <Joric> this is my serious face :-I
 989 2012-05-31 18:41:44 <Joric> sec i'll find the zhoutong's point system
 990 2012-05-31 18:41:57 <BlueMatt> wait, he actually posted his point system?
 991 2012-05-31 18:42:11 <Joric> here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81045.msg921368#msg921368
 992 2012-05-31 18:42:49 <BlueMatt> that was just a suggestion, not what they are using
 993 2012-05-31 18:43:37 * BlueMatt would like to see mtgox come out and detail a few of their backup procedures, so that it is well-known that they are in place
 994 2012-05-31 18:44:08 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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 998 2012-05-31 18:45:24 <Joric> 'You have reported a losing position, with precise details' - 20 points
 999 2012-05-31 18:45:36 <Joric> and nothing about the winning position
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1009 2012-05-31 19:12:30 <phantomcircuit> Joric, point system is an idiotic idea
1010 2012-05-31 19:12:42 <phantomcircuit> just rewards people spamming us with non relevant information
1011 2012-05-31 19:12:47 <phantomcircuit> im sure zhou knew this when he suggested it
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1020 2012-05-31 19:33:53 <Joric> phantomcircuit, may i send mail/ids to verify@bitcoinica.com ? i want to speed it up it already took a month
1021 2012-05-31 19:34:27 <phantomcircuit> thats not really the hold up right now
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1055 2012-05-31 20:51:04 <d34th> yeay
1056 2012-05-31 20:51:07 <d34th> on ubuntu
1057 2012-05-31 20:51:30 <d34th> and kvm exists
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1077 2012-05-31 21:47:12 <d34th> sipa i think i got it working finally
1078 2012-05-31 21:47:20 <d34th> im on configure_os with no errors
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1094 2012-05-31 22:32:16 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: TheBlueMatt opened pull request 1405 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1405>
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1100 2012-05-31 22:45:21 <d34th> hey rebroad, nice fork
1101 2012-05-31 22:45:32 <luke-jr> O.o
1102 2012-05-31 22:45:40 <luke-jr> is he seriously forking?
1103 2012-05-31 22:46:12 <d34th> well its a git fork
1104 2012-05-31 22:46:22 <d34th> pull request i should say
1105 2012-05-31 22:46:36 <d34th> 1404
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1109 2012-05-31 22:47:28 <d34th> aww he isnt even here
1110 2012-05-31 22:47:37 <d34th> so i got that system working
1111 2012-05-31 22:47:41 <d34th> it just wouldnt build
1112 2012-05-31 22:47:53 <d34th> i decided to use wubi
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1115 2012-05-31 22:50:20 <GTRsdk> looks like a nice pull request
1116 2012-05-31 22:50:59 <d34th> yea buddy
1117 2012-05-31 22:51:43 <d34th> mmm the dupblocks errors out
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1120 2012-05-31 22:53:27 <forrestv> luke-jr, sure. i guess "always an object" consistency is good
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1122 2012-05-31 22:54:38 <GTRsdk> ;;web title https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1404
1123 2012-05-31 22:54:40 <gribble> Pull Request #1404: Download blocks from several peers concurrently by rebroad · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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1130 2012-05-31 22:59:39 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@pool-96-226-236-130.dllstx.fios.verizon.net|brwyatt
1131 2012-05-31 23:04:05 <d34th> allrightyo
1132 2012-05-31 23:04:18 <d34th> time to go through his code and fix an error
1133 2012-05-31 23:04:48 <d34th> too bad i dont know what im doing
1134 2012-05-31 23:06:49 OneFixt has joined
1135 2012-05-31 23:07:23 <d34th> ok that looks simple enough to fix
1136 2012-05-31 23:07:29 <d34th> i hope
1137 2012-05-31 23:08:21 <d34th> oh hells yea
1138 2012-05-31 23:08:31 <d34th> gtrsdk that patch is a beast
1139 2012-05-31 23:08:46 <d34th> atleast 100x faster blockdownloads
1140 2012-05-31 23:09:14 <GTRsdk> sweeeet
1141 2012-05-31 23:11:00 <BlueMatt> d34th: dont get your hopes up, it will help when downloading from sucky peers, but, in most cases, it wont improve chain download speed at all
1142 2012-05-31 23:11:24 <d34th> downloaded 56k blocks in ~ 2 minutes
1143 2012-05-31 23:11:36 <sipa> d34th: i typically do 130k blocks in 3 minutes
1144 2012-05-31 23:11:47 <sipa> when syncing from a local file
1145 2012-05-31 23:11:55 <sipa> it's only afterwards that it gets slow
1146 2012-05-31 23:12:09 dk5 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1147 2012-05-31 23:12:16 <sipa> BlueMatt: i think you can prune right up to the end
1148 2012-05-31 23:12:26 <BlueMatt> d34th: I typically get something like that for the first n blocks
1149 2012-05-31 23:12:39 <sipa> since BIP30, the code does not rely on spent txouts to be present in the index anymore
1150 2012-05-31 23:12:43 <d34th> hmm i think this is on the old testnet
1151 2012-05-31 23:12:54 <d34th> because its at 60k blocks
1152 2012-05-31 23:13:00 <d34th> whats testnet3's blockcount?
1153 2012-05-31 23:13:15 <BlueMatt> sipa: and if you reorg and undo a block?
1154 2012-05-31 23:13:32 <BlueMatt> now you need to go back and find the txdiskpos again...
1155 2012-05-31 23:13:47 <sipa> lemme thing
1156 2012-05-31 23:13:49 <sipa> think
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1158 2012-05-31 23:14:38 <sipa> if you reorg, you rewind the transactions back in opposite order
1159 2012-05-31 23:15:10 <sipa> hmm, right
1160 2012-05-31 23:15:54 <sipa> i think that could be dealt with, as you actually rewind the full blocks, you could recreate spent txout index records, as you know their position on disk from the block you're rewinding
1161 2012-05-31 23:16:52 <gmaxwell> you should just not prune up so close to the tip.
1162 2012-05-31 23:17:13 <gmaxwell> just prune up to the highest checkpoint for now perhaps.
1163 2012-05-31 23:17:21 <sipa> that's exactly what he implemented
1164 2012-05-31 23:17:24 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: thats what I do
1165 2012-05-31 23:17:36 <BlueMatt> sipa: no, you need the tx pos of prev tx, which could be anywhere in the chain
1166 2012-05-31 23:17:39 <gmaxwell> sorry, been kinda distracted.
1167 2012-05-31 23:19:03 <d34th> submitted my 1404 fix
1168 2012-05-31 23:19:04 <d34th> :D
1169 2012-05-31 23:19:28 <sipa> BlueMatt: i think you're right
1170 2012-05-31 23:20:40 <d34th> wow it actually works
1171 2012-05-31 23:21:00 <d34th> ~14k blocks a minute download
1172 2012-05-31 23:21:06 <d34th> with only 11 connections
1173 2012-05-31 23:21:13 <sipa> you only need one connection
1174 2012-05-31 23:21:23 <d34th> yea
1175 2012-05-31 23:22:21 <d34th> im have to close my pull because there is an error in one of its dependencies
1176 2012-05-31 23:22:38 <d34th> oh i think it has to be closed
1177 2012-05-31 23:22:40 elkingrey has joined
1178 2012-05-31 23:22:57 <d34th> 1404 and 1406 have an error in dupblocks
1179 2012-05-31 23:23:31 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: grimd34th opened pull request 1406 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1406>
1180 2012-05-31 23:23:43 <d34th> sipa have you seen 1404
1181 2012-05-31 23:23:56 <sipa> can you both please just submit pull requests that do one thing only?
1182 2012-05-31 23:24:23 <d34th> in reality i was trying to pull it into rebroads
1183 2012-05-31 23:24:28 <d34th> but it climbed up the forkchain
1184 2012-05-31 23:24:34 <d34th> back to bitcoin
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1187 2012-05-31 23:25:09 <GTRsdk> ;;web title https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1406
1188 2012-05-31 23:25:10 <gribble> Pull Request #1406: 1404 fix by grimd34th · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
1189 2012-05-31 23:27:27 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: cool.
1190 2012-05-31 23:27:38 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: did you do any benchmarks to see if there is a performance improvement?
1191 2012-05-31 23:27:43 <sipa> i'll do one
1192 2012-05-31 23:28:09 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: havent had a chance yet, no
1193 2012-05-31 23:28:27 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: also, the header-ahead sounds neat but I expect it would hardly be less work than the reverse header fetch, which has a lot of other benefits.
1194 2012-05-31 23:28:29 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: though, I think, you probably have to db_dump | db_load before you see much of any
1195 2012-05-31 23:28:43 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: reverse header fetch?
1196 2012-05-31 23:28:50 rcorreia has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1197 2012-05-31 23:29:25 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: I gave a sketch of an algorithim, https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/User:Gmaxwell/Reverse_header-fetching_sync though I might have missed a detail.
1198 2012-05-31 23:29:58 <sipa> BlueMatt: oh, it only does the pruning afterwards?
1199 2012-05-31 23:30:04 <sipa> not during the sync itself
1200 2012-05-31 23:30:06 <BlueMatt> yea
1201 2012-05-31 23:30:12 <sipa> that won't speed anything up :D
1202 2012-05-31 23:30:14 <BlueMatt> otherwise you could make a node get stuck
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1204 2012-05-31 23:30:17 <BlueMatt> yep
1205 2012-05-31 23:30:23 <sipa> how so?
1206 2012-05-31 23:30:31 <gmaxwell> sipa: you could still benchmark blocks post sync.
1207 2012-05-31 23:30:38 <gmaxwell> sipa: trigger reorgs between checkpoints.
1208 2012-05-31 23:30:47 <BlueMatt> make a diff-1 block that spends really anything, then throw it in before first checkpoint
1209 2012-05-31 23:30:53 <sipa> after connecting block N, prune up to block N-2016
1210 2012-05-31 23:30:54 <BlueMatt> feed it to peers and...stuck!
1211 2012-05-31 23:31:10 <gmaxwell> or after hitting checkpoint X prune up to X.
1212 2012-05-31 23:31:11 <BlueMatt> you cant prune only parts, or, I dont see an effecient algorithm to do so
1213 2012-05-31 23:31:33 <BlueMatt> well, you could during ibd, sorry
1214 2012-05-31 23:31:43 <BlueMatt> but you have to pause download while you do
1215 2012-05-31 23:32:04 <sipa> iterate all blocks until X, iterate all transactions of block, iterate all prevouts of those transactions, see which make the prevout tx fully spend, ...
1216 2012-05-31 23:32:16 <BlueMatt> oh, yea, durring ibd you could, dur
1217 2012-05-31 23:32:16 <sipa> *spent
1218 2012-05-31 23:32:21 <gmaxwell> pretty bad network concurrency there.
1219 2012-05-31 23:32:37 <sipa> you'd probably only do that every N blocks
1220 2012-05-31 23:32:38 <BlueMatt> but, again, you have to pause download (otherwise you cant know if a tx was spent after checkpoint, or before)
1221 2012-05-31 23:32:44 <gmaxwell> In any case if it's faster then you should be able to see it measuring highest checkpoint until now.
1222 2012-05-31 23:32:46 <BlueMatt> you would only do it on each new checkpoint
1223 2012-05-31 23:33:31 <BlueMatt> if you set the db_max_locks unreasonably high you wouldnt have to
1224 2012-05-31 23:33:47 <BlueMatt> (and it cant deadlock because you cant lock something in download that you will be removing)
1225 2012-05-31 23:34:05 <BlueMatt> oh, wait, no, you still cant commit to db before checking for prunable txes
1226 2012-05-31 23:34:33 <sipa> hmm, it's certainly harder than i imagined
1227 2012-05-31 23:34:37 <BlueMatt> same
1228 2012-05-31 23:34:57 * BlueMatt looks up his quote from a few days ago along the lines of "it should just be a few loc"
1229 2012-05-31 23:35:24 <osmosis> is there a bug files or a fix for the issue in bitcoin-qt where I create a new receiving address and then I have to go scroll down in the list and find it after I just created it?
1230 2012-05-31 23:35:47 <sipa> osmosis: don't think there's a reported issue for that
1231 2012-05-31 23:36:24 danbri has joined
1232 2012-05-31 23:37:15 <osmosis> the File Settings Help  menus are also not available sometimes in Ubuntu Unity. seems to be a bitcoin-qt only issue
1233 2012-05-31 23:37:37 <osmosis> receiving address creating is really bugging me though
1234 2012-05-31 23:38:06 <osmosis> all in v0.6.2-beta
1235 2012-05-31 23:38:29 <osmosis> ill create some github 'issues'
1236 2012-05-31 23:38:44 <sipa> that unity issue has been reported before, afaik
1237 2012-05-31 23:38:55 <BlueMatt> sipa: well, Im gonna go work on cblockstore-recreation, if I can get the parallel checking stuff written again, Ill look at pruning during download at checkpoints and see what the timings like on pruning during download with a buffer
1238 2012-05-31 23:39:27 <sipa> BlueMatt: pruning at every checkpoint should be fine for now, i guess
1239 2012-05-31 23:41:02 * luke-jr thinks it'd be faster to prune at ConnectBlock
1240 2012-05-31 23:41:32 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: you can't prune if you might reorg (not unless you implement some tricky stuff)
1241 2012-05-31 23:41:33 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: read up, you cant just prune or people can disconnect you, it has to be at checkpoints
1242 2012-05-31 23:42:08 <sipa> pruning block X-n after connecting block X should be fine, but is harder
1243 2012-05-31 23:42:09 <luke-jr> hmm
1244 2012-05-31 23:42:44 <gmaxwell> sipa: meh, we're diff 1 for like the first 80k blocks or something, mining a few thousand diff one blocks is no big deal.
1245 2012-05-31 23:43:18 <sipa> hmm, what's your point?
1246 2012-05-31 23:43:28 <gmaxwell> what do you set n to.
1247 2012-05-31 23:43:53 <sipa> 2016, would be my suggestion
1248 2012-05-31 23:44:29 <sipa> but i see what you're getting at
1249 2012-05-31 23:44:48 <BlueMatt> you can always disconnect if you can get someone to prune a block you mined that is malicious, so...
1250 2012-05-31 23:44:54 <sipa> true
1251 2012-05-31 23:44:55 <BlueMatt> (as long as there is a bigger chain)
1252 2012-05-31 23:45:10 <sipa> use different of bnTotalWork as trigger? :)
1253 2012-05-31 23:45:14 <sipa> *difference
1254 2012-05-31 23:45:21 <gmaxwell> Yea, but it costs all of .063 BTC to create a greifer chain to screw that up.
1255 2012-05-31 23:45:30 <osmosis> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1407
1256 2012-05-31 23:45:41 <BlueMatt> you have no way of knowing if you are or arent on the "proper" chain until you get to head
1257 2012-05-31 23:45:52 <BlueMatt> I will gladly tell you my chain goes from genisis to checkpoint 1
1258 2012-05-31 23:46:03 <sipa> sure, i get it
1259 2012-05-31 23:46:07 <sipa> we need headers-first first
1260 2012-05-31 23:46:27 <sipa> so we know the PoW of the entire chain before downloading/connecting
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1262 2012-05-31 23:46:35 <BlueMatt> ohhh, ok, my bad
1263 2012-05-31 23:46:50 <BlueMatt> didnt see what you meant there
1264 2012-05-31 23:46:51 <gmaxwell> Yea. Really headersync first makes a lot of things easier and a lot of dumb attacks harder/impossible.
1265 2012-05-31 23:47:10 <BlueMatt> especially filling blkNNNN.dat with diff-1 blocks from genisis
1266 2012-05-31 23:47:17 <BlueMatt> (which has been a known issue forever...)
1267 2012-05-31 23:47:28 <sipa> sssssht!
1268 2012-05-31 23:47:45 <BlueMatt> sorry
1269 2012-05-31 23:49:08 sgstair has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1270 2012-05-31 23:49:10 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: stevenph opened issue 1407 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1407>
1271 2012-05-31 23:49:30 sgstair has joined
1272 2012-05-31 23:50:03 <BlueMatt> wait, why do we bother doing full block checking if (Checkpoints::CheckBlock(...)) ?
1273 2012-05-31 23:50:05 <gmaxwell> I still think we should make a protocol rule change to increase the minimum difficulty to something on the order of 1000-10000 at the point some checkpoint gets hit.
1274 2012-05-31 23:50:15 <BlueMatt> also, am I reading it right that we call CheckBlock twice per new block?
1275 2012-05-31 23:52:15 <luke-jr> …
1276 2012-05-31 23:52:39 <sipa> heh?
1277 2012-05-31 23:53:17 <BlueMatt> ProcessBlock and ConnectBlock
1278 2012-05-31 23:54:14 <sipa> oh yes, CheckBlock - but that is only cheap checks
1279 2012-05-31 23:54:27 <BlueMatt> yea, its not a huge deal, its cheap, still...
1280 2012-05-31 23:54:34 t7 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1281 2012-05-31 23:54:55 <sipa> i think it's meaningful as consistency check
1282 2012-05-31 23:55:16 <BlueMatt> we dont change the block
1283 2012-05-31 23:55:25 <sipa> db corruption...
1284 2012-05-31 23:55:34 <sipa> you only want to connect blocks to the tree that are valid, but check that they are intact before making them the new best chain
1285 2012-05-31 23:56:06 <BlueMatt> its fair during cases where we didnt just check it, but checking it twice in 100ms seems...redundant
1286 2012-05-31 23:56:33 <sipa> it's exactly the same in-memory structure there?
1287 2012-05-31 23:56:41 <BlueMatt> afaict
1288 2012-05-31 23:56:41 <sipa> not dumped to db, and re-read
1289 2012-05-31 23:57:03 <sipa> if it is, i wouldn't mind a mutable bool fCheckBlockPassed
1290 2012-05-31 23:57:24 <BlueMatt> oh, no you're right
1291 2012-05-31 23:58:03 <BlueMatt> oh, wait, no I misread it, yea its the same memory sturcture
1292 2012-05-31 23:58:09 <BlueMatt> structure*