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 14 2012-06-04 00:26:07 <luke-jr> hum
 15 2012-06-04 00:26:35 <luke-jr> was going to see if it'd be easy to make bitcoind endian-safe, but it's segfaulting inside OpenSSL :/
 16 2012-06-04 00:33:22 <luke-jr> oh well, it's on gcc110 if anyone wants to poke at it
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 18 2012-06-04 00:37:02 <GTRsdk> Would it be possible to make a big-endian only version that works with little endian nodes?
 19 2012-06-04 00:37:38 <graingert> luke-jr: do you know how to SPARQL?
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 21 2012-06-04 00:42:57 <bayleef> k, if anyone wants to have a look, failbox.co.cc/random/blockyblocks.7z is my blockchain
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 24 2012-06-04 00:49:35 <luke-jr> GTRsdk: no easier
 25 2012-06-04 00:49:48 <luke-jr> GTRsdk: know of a BE system that test_bitcoin runs but fails on?
 26 2012-06-04 00:50:08 <luke-jr> if so, I have a branch to test on it :p
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 56 2012-06-04 01:41:18 <weex> anyone know what private key format blockchain.info uses for their paperwallet? starts with a 4.
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 59 2012-06-04 01:45:04 <BlueMatt> bayleef: thanks, got it, Ill go take a look...
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 61 2012-06-04 01:53:20 <weex> it appears it's base58, what else can import that format?
 62 2012-06-04 01:53:32 <BlueMatt> bayleef: well...I loaded up your chain and after waiting a minute, it appears to be syncing fine...
 63 2012-06-04 01:53:52 <BlueMatt> weex: the satoshi client, afaik
 64 2012-06-04 01:53:59 <BlueMatt> oh, a separate format, nfc
 65 2012-06-04 01:54:10 <BlueMatt> have you tried the satoshi client, though?
 66 2012-06-04 01:55:01 <weex> haven't tried an import just trying to list the options
 67 2012-06-04 01:55:22 <BlueMatt> I dont see why they would use something other than the satoshi client
 68 2012-06-04 01:55:52 <weex> i'll try it then
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 71 2012-06-04 01:57:25 <bayleef> bluematt: Ah. So it's my client?
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 74 2012-06-04 01:57:44 <BlueMatt> bayleef: Im not sure yet, still looking, but I restarted master a few times and it appeared to sync
 75 2012-06-04 01:57:56 <BlueMatt> bayleef: though for some reason it doesnt want to sync without restarting once
 76 2012-06-04 01:58:38 <BlueMatt> though it may be a bug in net...
 77 2012-06-04 01:58:43 <BlueMatt> give me a few minutes
 78 2012-06-04 01:59:43 * weex tries bitcoin-qt for the first time
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 83 2012-06-04 02:06:55 * GTRsdk tried to launch bitcoin-qt, then it had an error :(
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 85 2012-06-04 02:08:54 <weex> BlueMatt: error: {"code":-5,"message":"Invalid private key"}
 86 2012-06-04 02:09:07 <weex> guess it doesn't like blockchain.info's private key format
 87 2012-06-04 02:09:18 <weex> bitaddress.org doesn't either
 88 2012-06-04 02:09:44 <weex> oh there's a selector for export
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 90 2012-06-04 02:12:08 <weex> glad to see importprivkey enabled by default though in bitcoind but i wish it had an "earliest block to check" feature...so if I create a key on one machine i can tell it to skip checking
 91 2012-06-04 02:12:17 <weex> maybe that's too dangerous to let the user do though
 92 2012-06-04 02:12:55 <weex> checking history i mean
 93 2012-06-04 02:13:47 <Joric> they wrote they dont see a point in checksumming private key so it's raw base58
 94 2012-06-04 02:14:39 <BlueMatt> yes because removing a checksum is worth breaking compatibility with...everything
 95 2012-06-04 02:14:41 <BlueMatt> wtf?
 96 2012-06-04 02:15:19 <Joric> told them
 97 2012-06-04 02:15:49 <Joric> it provides all kinds of keys though but the raw base58 is on the very top
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 99 2012-06-04 02:16:16 * luke-jr still thinks sweepprivkey > importprivkey
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102 2012-06-04 02:17:02 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: we dont ever send to importprivkey do we?
103 2012-06-04 02:17:10 <BlueMatt> s/send/use for change/
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106 2012-06-04 02:17:27 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: doubt it, but it probably shows funds on it as trusted-mine
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108 2012-06-04 02:17:45 <BlueMatt> yea, no, I agree
109 2012-06-04 02:17:48 <luke-jr> so importing a key from someone else is dangerous
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111 2012-06-04 02:18:18 <luke-jr> I made up Bitcoin gift cards to use as tips, and I found only MtGox had a reasonable interface to add them
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114 2012-06-04 02:19:17 <luke-jr> ok, admittedly I didn't check Electrum
115 2012-06-04 02:19:29 <luke-jr> (the only other GUI client I consider to have a reasonably user-friendly interface)
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125 2012-06-04 02:43:04 <luke-jr> fwiw, talked to dooglus and he says he can split the coin selection refactor/tests out from Coincontrol\
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130 2012-06-04 02:55:26 <bayleef> BTW anyone else want that blockchain? Or should I go rm it
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133 2012-06-04 02:59:30 <luke-jr> bayleef: probably
134 2012-06-04 03:02:58 <bayleef> luke-jr: any idea how I can get it downloading again?
135 2012-06-04 03:03:12 <luke-jr> no, sorry
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137 2012-06-04 03:11:23 <bayleef> might deleting the blk* files and letting bitcoind recreate them do anything? Or not?
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162 2012-06-04 04:20:55 <bayleef> btw, next-test is getting OOM killed on my system while upgrading the blockchain.
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166 2012-06-04 04:35:41 <luke-jr> bayleef: latest next-test doesn't have an upgrade process…
167 2012-06-04 04:38:13 <bayleef> as a test, I moved that blockchain out of the way, and let next-test bitcoind download the blockchain again. It threw an exception and died. So, I started my bitcoind, let it download a few thousand blocks (that worked fine), stopped it, and started next-test bitcoind. It started upgrading, and a few seconds after threw the same exception as before. The output is at http://failbox.co.cc/bitcoind-test-exception
168 2012-06-04 04:39:47 <bayleef> luke-jr: mine does, latest commit for me is 984372a
169 2012-06-04 04:40:03 <bayleef> do I have the wrong repo or something?
170 2012-06-04 04:44:28 <wladston> just finished to write the paper
171 2012-06-04 04:44:37 <wladston> luke-jr: check it out http://bitquestion.com/static/files/paper_accounts.pdf
172 2012-06-04 04:45:22 <luke-jr> bayleef: guess so, that's ancient
173 2012-06-04 04:45:37 <luke-jr> next-test is db7d5aa
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175 2012-06-04 04:48:08 <wladston> So, people, I'm basically proposing a new account design for bitcoind.
176 2012-06-04 04:48:27 <wladston> Would love if you could check out the paper, and send me suggestions.
177 2012-06-04 04:48:39 DaQatz has joined
178 2012-06-04 04:48:45 <wladston> and wether you think the method fits for bitcoind.
179 2012-06-04 04:52:44 <wladston> maybe I should post that on the mailing list
180 2012-06-04 04:53:16 <wladston> is the list invite-only ?
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183 2012-06-04 05:00:53 <bayleef> luke-jr: what repo are you pushing to, then? According to http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/w/bitcoind/luke-jr.git, latest is next-test_20120518 (984372a)
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188 2012-06-04 05:03:31 <luke-jr> bayleef: fixed
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198 2012-06-04 05:22:20 <bayleef> luke-jr: ah yay, that worked. Still won't go past block 181808, but it at least loads. Redownloading the blockchain now in hopes that'll fix whatever's broken. It'll do that, strangely enough lol
199 2012-06-04 05:22:59 <bayleef> I'm off to bed, thanks all for your help
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235 2012-06-04 07:03:36 <kingkatari> hey all is this channel i come to if i am getting a bitcoin program error ?
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238 2012-06-04 07:04:53 <kingkatari> this is the error i am getting
239 2012-06-04 07:04:54 <kingkatari> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/74275720/bitcoinerror.png
240 2012-06-04 07:05:07 <kingkatari> and even a reinstall will fix it
241 2012-06-04 07:05:15 <kingkatari> errr
242 2012-06-04 07:05:25 <kingkatari> i mean a reinstall will not fix it
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246 2012-06-04 07:09:43 <Eliel> kingkatari: sounds like a problem with the database. Did you copy something from another bitcoin data directory?
247 2012-06-04 07:10:50 <kingkatari> no
248 2012-06-04 07:10:59 <kingkatari> it is the same DB i have been using
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254 2012-06-04 07:21:45 <Eliel> kingkatari: did you upgrade or downgrade bitcoin?
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256 2012-06-04 07:24:12 <Eliel> kingkatari: personally, when that happens, I'd move wallet.dat and bitcoin.conf to a safe place and then wipe the directory. Use this to make the chain redownload process go faster http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/blockchain/
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258 2012-06-04 07:25:25 <kingkatari> :-( wow another 10 hour download
259 2012-06-04 07:25:27 <kingkatari> lol
260 2012-06-04 07:25:35 <kingkatari> lol
261 2012-06-04 07:25:54 <Eliel> kingkatari: it's a good idea to keep a copy of the blockchain somewhere if you expect having to do this often.
262 2012-06-04 07:26:09 <kingkatari> i wonder if the S.B.A will give me a business loan to start an actual bitcoin mining operation
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264 2012-06-04 07:26:34 <Eliel> I doubt it, but can't hurt to try.
265 2012-06-04 07:27:28 <kingkatari> i just wonder how to classify it for my business license
266 2012-06-04 07:27:50 <kingkatari> i would think service
267 2012-06-04 07:28:43 <Eliel> well, you could call it "blockchain verification service" :P
268 2012-06-04 07:29:47 <kingkatari> Or BVS Co.
269 2012-06-04 07:30:08 * kingkatari quickly Copyrights that name
270 2012-06-04 07:30:20 <moa7> or just BS Co.
271 2012-06-04 07:30:24 <kingkatari> LoL
272 2012-06-04 07:30:43 <Eliel> :D
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303 2012-06-04 09:47:46 <weex> is there a python script that generates a new address and prints it with its private key? looking at trimming down pywallet.py to do this
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305 2012-06-04 09:52:56 <Joric> i wrote a bunch of scripts along with pywallet
306 2012-06-04 09:54:43 <Joric> sorry can't find
307 2012-06-04 09:57:22 <Joric> http://bitaddress.org may generate a list of random addresses though it's not python
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309 2012-06-04 10:05:42 <weex> yeah i want minimal and local
310 2012-06-04 10:06:48 <weex> minimal so it's easier to audit and local so the possibility of malicious edits is minimized
311 2012-06-04 10:09:26 <weex> Joric: is this something you would consider creating a seperate, all-inclusive python script for to be included in the pywallet github?
312 2012-06-04 10:13:49 <Joric> sec
313 2012-06-04 10:14:51 <Joric> that's the smallest one http://pastebin.com/hzehdrzk
314 2012-06-04 10:15:21 <Joric> no deps except libssl
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317 2012-06-04 10:18:09 <weex> you just did this or had it for a while?
318 2012-06-04 10:18:16 <Joric> just did it
319 2012-06-04 10:18:24 <Joric> well, copypasted a bit
320 2012-06-04 10:19:15 <Joric> oh it doesn't really support compression let me fix that
321 2012-06-04 10:19:45 <weex> cool, i'm surprised nobody ever made one...just saw a thread on someone wanting it in php and he got a lot of "you should store private keys on a server"
322 2012-06-04 10:19:56 <weex> shouldn't*
323 2012-06-04 10:22:18 <weex> that is awesome, it worked...gonna make it look like vanitygen's output
324 2012-06-04 10:24:16 O2made has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
325 2012-06-04 10:25:40 <Joric> updated http://pastebin.com/hzehdrzk
326 2012-06-04 10:25:45 <Joric> needs testing!
327 2012-06-04 10:27:09 <Joric> updated once more, seems fine
328 2012-06-04 10:27:31 <weex> i put a while1 loop on it and got 1400 addresses/sec
329 2012-06-04 10:28:20 <weex> if that is put up somewhere, it can make it much easier for people to generate paper wallets they can trust
330 2012-06-04 10:29:58 <weex> i think i'm not understanding why compress the privkey
331 2012-06-04 10:29:59 <Joric> well it's my pastebin account i'm logged in
332 2012-06-04 10:30:38 <Joric> http://pastebin.com/u/joric there are more
333 2012-06-04 10:32:09 <weex> that is the most extensive use of pastebin for hosting that i've seen
334 2012-06-04 10:32:58 <Joric> weex, compressed pubkeys take 50% less place, 33 bytes vs 65
335 2012-06-04 10:33:52 <Joric> since blockchain contains raw pubkeys it helps the network a bit
336 2012-06-04 10:34:12 <weex> i get None printed a couple times when i run the latest
337 2012-06-04 10:35:31 <Joric> maybe it wasn't the latest it returns tuple for printing (addr, sec)
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341 2012-06-04 10:39:36 <weex> Joric: cool, do you mind specifying a license for this?
342 2012-06-04 10:40:08 <Joric> public domain, as always
343 2012-06-04 10:40:37 <weex> ok, i just can't tell and i'd like to link to it from an ebook i'm working on
344 2012-06-04 10:42:11 <Joric> most code is taken from sam rushing's caesure under simplified bsd consider it free
345 2012-06-04 10:42:28 <Joric> there's really nothing to copywrite
346 2012-06-04 10:43:27 <weex> fair enough
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348 2012-06-04 10:51:15 <Joric> oh god hang on
349 2012-06-04 10:51:26 <Joric> hash_to_address is wrong
350 2012-06-04 10:53:17 <Joric> i shouldn't add chr(0) to a compressed hash160
351 2012-06-04 10:54:00 Facefox has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
352 2012-06-04 10:54:23 <weex> didn't notice for the address i checked
353 2012-06-04 10:54:37 <weex> it is interesting that a privkey has two addresses though
354 2012-06-04 10:54:57 <Joric> *if compressed and len(s) == 32:
355 2012-06-04 10:55:04 <Joric> updated, sorry i'm slow
356 2012-06-04 10:55:04 Facefox has joined
357 2012-06-04 10:55:44 <weex> out of curiosity when would that cause a problem?
358 2012-06-04 10:56:09 <Joric> yes that compressed keys feature creates a lot of ambiguities
359 2012-06-04 10:57:32 <Joric> weex, it basically performs base58check(str) compressed base58 privkey should be 1 byte londer due to sipa's specification ) but not the address
360 2012-06-04 10:58:29 <Joric> i have to move it away from this function, hang on
361 2012-06-04 10:59:18 Sh00tF1rst has left ()
362 2012-06-04 11:02:31 <Joric> looks fine now http://pastebin.com/hzehdrzk
363 2012-06-04 11:03:05 <Joric> damn those naming conventions look ugly, sec
364 2012-06-04 11:04:01 <weex> heh
365 2012-06-04 11:04:12 <Joric> updated lol it's always ends like this
366 2012-06-04 11:05:07 <weex> i guess the other question is, is there anything unnecessary in there?
367 2012-06-04 11:06:00 <weex> i have to sleep (it's 4am) but i'll check it out tomorrow. very impressive Joric.
368 2012-06-04 11:07:15 <Joric> nah i wouldn't remove anything may be usefull
369 2012-06-04 11:08:17 <Joric> actually i'd even add sign/verify message which i hacked up yesterday but it looks fine as is
370 2012-06-04 11:09:16 saieko has joined
371 2012-06-04 11:12:57 <moa7> Joric : what is output ... 2 off pubkey,privkey pairs?
372 2012-06-04 11:14:07 <Joric> yep, base58check address + base58check privkey
373 2012-06-04 11:14:46 <moa7> strange the second pair always has privkey beginning with 'L' ?
374 2012-06-04 11:15:35 <moa7> or K ... what am I missing here?
375 2012-06-04 11:16:04 <Joric> second pair is compressed, it's supposed to be so it's 33-byte secret, either L or K
376 2012-06-04 11:16:14 <moa7> ok
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402 2012-06-04 12:36:16 <BlueMatt> bayleef: ping
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405 2012-06-04 12:48:45 <jrmithdobbs> does anyone actually sell or at the least quote the spyrus smartcard/readers? i don't want to have to call these bitches
406 2012-06-04 12:50:45 <gavinandresen> luke-jr : ping
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410 2012-06-04 13:19:23 <BlueMatt> sipa: bayleef's chain last night was not, indeed corrupt, the issue was that he was on an old fork and SetBestChain was taking a long time to disconnect 1 block and reconnect 634 blocks (obviously) and thus it appeared to be not downloading blocks
411 2012-06-04 13:19:54 <BlueMatt> he appeared to have a huge orphan chain of size 634, which I find interesting, but it appears it was being handled correctly
412 2012-06-04 13:20:58 * BlueMatt looks at having gui update more often during reorgs with CommitBlock emits during reconnect in chub
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433 2012-06-04 13:56:05 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: pong
434 2012-06-04 13:56:54 <gavinandresen> luke-jr : did you write the new 'decompositions' feature of gettransaction ?  is it documented somewhere?
435 2012-06-04 13:57:40 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: yes; I don't believe so - where would you suggest it be documented?
436 2012-06-04 13:57:53 shurnormal has joined
437 2012-06-04 13:57:56 <luke-jr> the inband help doesn't seem like the right place for lengthy explanations
438 2012-06-04 13:58:00 <gavinandresen> bitcoind help would be a nice start.  But I think it is way over-complicated
439 2012-06-04 13:58:18 Diapolo has joined
440 2012-06-04 13:58:27 paul0 has joined
441 2012-06-04 13:58:43 <gavinandresen> seems to me a boolean would suffice-- "give me all the detailed info about this transaction, please, I don't care about how much bandwidth that takes."
442 2012-06-04 13:59:26 <gavinandresen> (I think that corresponds to the 'object' decomposition)
443 2012-06-04 13:59:38 <luke-jr> then there'd be no way to do other decompositions
444 2012-06-04 13:59:46 <gavinandresen> okey doke.
445 2012-06-04 14:01:02 copumpkin has joined
446 2012-06-04 14:01:03 <Diapolo> I'm happy, I managed to compile OpenSSL 1.0.1c 10 May 2012 on Windows with MinGW :).
447 2012-06-04 14:01:12 <luke-jr> I suppose we could throw the disassembly,hex,hash on the objects, but that might chew up a lot of CPU time I'd imagine
448 2012-06-04 14:02:02 <gavinandresen> how about just raw hex, and then write a little Python code that can translate the hex into disassembly.  And put the python code in contrib/
449 2012-06-04 14:02:08 <luke-jr> and using primitive parameters has proven to get a bit out of control on other JSON-RPC methods IMO when they eventually need more options
450 2012-06-04 14:03:32 devrandom has joined
451 2012-06-04 14:03:50 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: that makes more work for everyone in the future, when new opcodes are added… now N places need to be updated instead of 1
452 2012-06-04 14:03:53 Skaag_ has quit (Quit: Is dreams our reality, or is reality our dreams?)
453 2012-06-04 14:04:14 <luke-jr> (and not everyone uses Python)
454 2012-06-04 14:04:39 <gavinandresen> what is the disassembly for?  Just debugging ?
455 2012-06-04 14:05:34 <luke-jr> also seems handy for showing people how Bitcoin works in specific cases, etc
456 2012-06-04 14:06:08 <luke-jr> personally, I find it useful to replace blockchain.info with a local trusted program
457 2012-06-04 14:06:14 <gavinandresen> away for a bit-- maybe it would help if you wrote up the motivating use case(s) for the 'decompositions' feature of gettransaction.
458 2012-06-04 14:06:26 <luke-jr> and it actually works (blockchain.info does some P2SH magic that really obfuscates it)
459 2012-06-04 14:06:53 <gavinandresen> (e.g. maybe a RPC call that took a hex scriptPubKey and disassembled it into a human-readable string is the right thing to do)
460 2012-06-04 14:07:45 MobiusL has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
461 2012-06-04 14:08:57 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: that would be very slow
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465 2012-06-04 14:11:34 <Diapolo> OpenSSL uses RAND_screen() on init, which takes 2322ms (measured) and as "RAND_screen() is provided by OpenSSL only for backward compatibility with (much) older code which may call it (that was before OpenSSL used proper OS-based seed initialization)" we can maybe remove this on Win32?
466 2012-06-04 14:12:26 <luke-jr> Diapolo: you can't measure RAND_screen
467 2012-06-04 14:12:51 dvide has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
468 2012-06-04 14:12:52 <Diapolo> I take the current time before and after and see the diff?
469 2012-06-04 14:13:00 MobiusL has joined
470 2012-06-04 14:13:18 <luke-jr> Diapolo: RAND_screen reads mouse movement. Move the mouse faster and it'll finish sooner
471 2012-06-04 14:13:52 <Diapolo> My question was a different one, even if you say the mearurement is inacurrate.
472 2012-06-04 14:14:07 <luke-jr> Diapolo: Windows still doesn't have any reasonable entropy sources AFAIK
473 2012-06-04 14:14:39 <luke-jr> "The RAND_screen() function is available for the convenience of Windows programmers."
474 2012-06-04 14:14:56 <Diapolo> OpenSSL now calls CryptGenRandom() on Windows.
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479 2012-06-04 14:16:43 <Diapolo> I'm sure MS has an interrest in providing a good PRNG source, no?
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481 2012-06-04 14:19:30 <Diapolo> The analysis I could find say on Win2K it was weak bad, but we require WinXP as minimum MS-OS and they updated their PRNGs once more with Vista and Win7 AFAIK.
482 2012-06-04 14:20:04 Hasbro has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
483 2012-06-04 14:20:11 <BlueMatt> its much better in this case to avoid PRNGs, even if they are really secure, we are trying to protect money, so using real random sources is much, much better
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485 2012-06-04 14:21:18 <luke-jr> Diapolo: PRNG is no good in general ;)
486 2012-06-04 14:22:08 graingert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
487 2012-06-04 14:22:17 <Diapolo> I'm not sure, but why is the Linux part considered random enough btw.?
488 2012-06-04 14:22:41 <helo> i'd like to see an attack on sha512(mersennetwist1 + mersennetwist2 + mersennetwist3)
489 2012-06-04 14:22:50 <helo> or something similar
490 2012-06-04 14:22:54 <Diapolo> I found that one: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10568847/generating-random-keys-data-using-openssl-libray-on-windows
491 2012-06-04 14:24:31 <Diapolo> Or: "CryptoAPI's entropy pool is similar to Linux's /dev/random - it slowly hashes in entropy based on user activity on the system."
492 2012-06-04 14:24:47 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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494 2012-06-04 14:34:18 <Diapolo> Sometimes I have a feeling, that Linux is per default considered more secure and all that, so that no one ever thinks there is a need for additional entropy there :D. I just wanted to mention RAND_screen() is slow, as is the current method to access the registry to get perfmon data on Windows, which can't be considered "usefull", too IMHO.
495 2012-06-04 14:35:32 graingert has joined
496 2012-06-04 14:35:44 <Diablo-D3> Diapolo: no
497 2012-06-04 14:35:49 <Diablo-D3> /dev/random is full entropy
498 2012-06-04 14:35:54 <Diablo-D3> its /dev/urandom that isnt
499 2012-06-04 14:36:18 <Diablo-D3> /dev/random is very quickly depleted
500 2012-06-04 14:36:37 <Diablo-D3> on a lot of machines you cant even construct a ssh key without wiggling the mouse until its done
501 2012-06-04 14:37:29 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: rand_screen taking 2.3s surprises me, in any case— the linux behavior is trivially auditable and the windows behavior is not.
502 2012-06-04 14:37:46 <Diapolo> It would just be nice to use OS-standards and be able to speed-up things a little. I really can't comment on the Linux-side.
503 2012-06-04 14:38:07 <Eliel> Diapolo: yep, Windows is a black box in many regards.
504 2012-06-04 14:38:27 <Eliel> You either trust that Microsoft engineers got it right, or you don't use it.
505 2012-06-04 14:38:29 <Diapolo> gmaxwell: If we don't want to trust MS we can't even use OpenSSL RAND_bytes() as this uses CryptGenRandom() e.g.
506 2012-06-04 14:38:37 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: there are a lot of ways to speed it up, including running the rand_screen() in parallel with the index load.
507 2012-06-04 14:39:09 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: iirc the results are mixed in with the openssl random pool.
508 2012-06-04 14:39:21 <Diapolo> right, once
509 2012-06-04 14:39:36 <Diapolo> on startup / init not afterwards
510 2012-06-04 14:39:36 TD has joined
511 2012-06-04 14:41:27 <Diapolo> I even compared the current RandAddSeed(), which uses a registry key to gather entropy:
512 2012-06-04 14:41:27 <Diapolo> RandAddSeed() 198396 bytes in 1548ms
513 2012-06-04 14:41:27 <Diapolo> new (MS CryptoAPI):
514 2012-06-04 14:41:27 <Diapolo> RandAddSeed() 250000 bytes in 16ms
515 2012-06-04 14:49:24 agricocb has joined
516 2012-06-04 14:49:32 wladston has joined
517 2012-06-04 14:50:20 <wladston> sipa: did you check my little paper on the issue we were talking ?
518 2012-06-04 14:50:20 <wladston> sipa: http://bitquestion.com/static/files/paper_accounts.pdf
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520 2012-06-04 14:52:29 <wladston> doublec: you might find it interesting too
521 2012-06-04 14:52:56 <wladston> TD: you were also discussing this matter a few days ago with us
522 2012-06-04 14:53:21 <wladston> gmaxwell: would like you to read it too, if you can :)
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524 2012-06-04 14:56:32 <gavinandresen> wladston: I skimmed it; my general reaction is "good idea" ... as long as it doesn't make performance a lot worse.
525 2012-06-04 14:56:41 devrandom has joined
526 2012-06-04 14:57:43 <TD> wladston: sipa is busy atm
527 2012-06-04 14:57:54 <wladston> gavinandresen: I think it won't, with my proposed optimization.
528 2012-06-04 14:57:57 <gavinandresen> wladston: optimizing 'accounts' for the lots-of-accounts case should probably be done first.  And the biggest criticism of the 'accounts' feature is the mixing of coins received
529 2012-06-04 14:58:56 <wladston> gavinandresen: it won't fix the mixing of coins (I think it's impossible to address that), but if will separate confirmed from unconfirmed coins.
530 2012-06-04 14:59:03 <gavinandresen> wladston: The big conceptual argument will probably be "keep accounts, or would it make more sense to teach bitcoind to handle X separate wallets (where X might be thousands)"
531 2012-06-04 14:59:42 paul0 has quit (Quit: paul0)
532 2012-06-04 14:59:42 <gavinandresen> Your idea would obviously be applicable to the X separate wallets case, where transfers from one wallet to another don't hit the blockchain....
533 2012-06-04 14:59:45 <wladston> gavinandresen: there would still be a problem with that, because transfers between wallets would have to be broadcasted on the network … no ?
534 2012-06-04 15:00:00 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: separate wallets *need* to hit the blockchain…
535 2012-06-04 15:00:27 <wladston> hum, ok
536 2012-06-04 15:00:45 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: did you read wladson's little paper?
537 2012-06-04 15:01:09 <BlueMatt> problem with 1000 wallets is you cant spend from one wallet using coins from another, which could avoid fees and let bitcoin keep the chain smaller
538 2012-06-04 15:01:26 <BlueMatt> so I think using multi-wallets in place of the current use-cases for accounts is unreasonable
539 2012-06-04 15:01:43 <BlueMatt> (not that multi-wallets doesnt have use-cases, but 1000s of wallets isnt one of them imho)
540 2012-06-04 15:01:53 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: it has too much math symbols <.<
541 2012-06-04 15:02:28 <wladston> if we mix coins from confirmed inputs, I think that's not really a problem
542 2012-06-04 15:02:52 <BlueMatt> thats my point, you can mix coins if its not separate wallets
543 2012-06-04 15:03:00 <BlueMatt> if the wallets are separate, you cant
544 2012-06-04 15:03:02 <wladston> luke-jr: I worked to bring the math simbols to the least I could
545 2012-06-04 15:03:41 <gavinandresen> wladston: a couple of "for example"s would help with the wading-through-math problem
546 2012-06-04 15:04:30 <wladston> gavinandresen: understood. will try to add some examples of how it deals with circular dependencies and mixed confirmation transfers.
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551 2012-06-04 15:05:35 <wladston> it's a good think that you could understand my solution, though.
552 2012-06-04 15:05:52 <BlueMatt> wladston: calling them wallets is very misleading, though, why not just stick with calling them accounts?
553 2012-06-04 15:06:23 <wladston> BlueMatt: you are right. Also noted this for fixing.
554 2012-06-04 15:06:41 <wladston> BlueMatt: I called then wallets because in my internal implementation I called then wallets
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556 2012-06-04 15:08:18 <helo> account ~= group of owned addresses?
557 2012-06-04 15:08:26 * helo reads
558 2012-06-04 15:08:58 <wladston> helo: yes. but they can also receive/send internal moves from other accounts
559 2012-06-04 15:10:10 <gavinandresen> luke-jr : RE: separate RPC for disassembling CScripts and "but that would be slow" .... if that is true (again, WHAT IS THE USE CASE WHERE SPEED MATTERS) then maybe implementing JSON-2.0 multiple-requests-at-once and/or HTTP keepalive is the right thing to do
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561 2012-06-04 15:10:18 <wladston> I could try to implement that in bitcoind as my first commit, if you are interested and there is someone to mentor me… but probably someone who knows the bitcoind code already will be able to code that in a few hours...
562 2012-06-04 15:10:37 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: we have HTTP keepalive. that doesn't cut down on round-trips
563 2012-06-04 15:11:31 da2ce7 has joined
564 2012-06-04 15:12:14 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: you're doing that thing that drives me nuts again, pick-pick-picking at little nits
565 2012-06-04 15:12:24 <gavinandresen> (and missing the big picture)
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568 2012-06-04 15:17:18 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: not sure if it might help reduce the going nuts bit, but perhaps consider from my perspective that's what you started off doing (though I agree documentation would probably be useful) - all I'm doing is answering the rationale behind your questions…
569 2012-06-04 15:19:03 <gavinandresen> I've said before I'd like to discuss RPC changes BEFORE submitting pull requests.  And yes, I know jgarzik broke that rule with sendrawtx (and I think we're now regretting that, too)
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571 2012-06-04 15:20:43 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: it's been a few months since that change was discussed, I don't recall the order of events; I'm trying to do better on that
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573 2012-06-04 15:22:33 * luke-jr stabs GCC for burying the line number with the real bug when templates are involved
574 2012-06-04 15:23:37 <Diablo-D3> ha ha templates
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590 2012-06-04 15:54:48 <BCBot>  Stats: http://bit.ly/bitcoin-irc-stats
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602 2012-06-04 16:01:11 <avengre> Hello, is -testnet okay to use from the same directory that the main bitcoin is running from?  Ie, it won't affect the existing wallet / blockchain?
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610 2012-06-04 16:09:02 <gavinandresen> avengre: yes, testnet will create its own subdirectory in the main data directory, you can run -testnet and non-testnet at the same time.
611 2012-06-04 16:09:45 <gavinandresen> avengre: ... wait I might have just lied, I think testnet uses the same -rpcport as non-testnet....
612 2012-06-04 16:10:06 <gavinandresen> ... so you'd have to run -testnet -rpcport=12345
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619 2012-06-04 16:16:54 <avengre> okay, good to know
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628 2012-06-04 16:23:46 <avengre> will it automatically mine with -testnet? or do I need to choose soemthing else (never really solo mined without using a seperate miner)
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633 2012-06-04 16:26:48 <D34TH> ouch, netsplit
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646 2012-06-04 17:02:49 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: luke-jr opened pull request 1416 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1416>
647 2012-06-04 17:03:10 <luke-jr> ^ split the coin selection refactor/tests out from under Coin Control
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675 2012-06-04 18:04:20 <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/security.html is looking better now
676 2012-06-04 18:04:20 <avengre> so to use bitcoin-qt -tesetnet -conf=testnet/bitcoin.conf -datadir=testnet?
677 2012-06-04 18:04:33 <luke-jr> avengre: um, just run bitcoin-qt -testnet
678 2012-06-04 18:04:45 <luke-jr> -server -rpcport=NNNN if you want to mine on it
679 2012-06-04 18:05:01 <avengre> I did that but it started downloading the blockchain to its root dir, and I'm not sure which blockchain it is
680 2012-06-04 18:05:58 sirk390 has joined
681 2012-06-04 18:06:39 <avengre> ah nm works now for some magic reason with just -testnet
682 2012-06-04 18:06:42 <avengre> i blame you... you evil man
683 2012-06-04 18:07:07 <luke-jr> …
684 2012-06-04 18:07:21 sirk3901 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
685 2012-06-04 18:07:31 <D34TH> someone else on testnet3? :D
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690 2012-06-04 18:22:56 imsaguy2 is now known as pirateat41
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692 2012-06-04 18:24:42 <avengre> whats testnet 3?
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694 2012-06-04 18:24:46 <avengre> the current testnet?
695 2012-06-04 18:24:58 <BlueMatt> testnet on git master
696 2012-06-04 18:25:11 <BlueMatt> testnet is being reset with version 0.7, and git master has the pull merged
697 2012-06-04 18:26:13 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
698 2012-06-04 18:27:58 <avengre> ah no i'm just using whatever bitcoin.org has
699 2012-06-04 18:28:12 <avengre> or whatever comes with bitcoin-qt 0.6.2 that is
700 2012-06-04 18:28:16 <D34TH> aww
701 2012-06-04 18:28:42 <D34TH> so bluematt me and  a friend got p2pool working on testnet3
702 2012-06-04 18:28:50 <D34TH> it has a few glitches but runs smooth
703 2012-06-04 18:29:16 <avengre> so what happens to the old chain when they reset testnet
704 2012-06-04 18:29:30 <BlueMatt> it slowly dies as people upgrade
705 2012-06-04 18:29:45 <avengre> ah but it'll still be usable if I run a miner on it
706 2012-06-04 18:29:55 <avengre> so I don't have to keep upgrading to do my testing?
707 2012-06-04 18:30:01 <D34TH> nope
708 2012-06-04 18:30:17 <avengre> ah okay
709 2012-06-04 18:30:26 <D34TH> but the new testnet is at a lower diff, testing might go quicker
710 2012-06-04 18:30:57 <BlueMatt> it will be usable, yea...but you may end up with issues finding peers
711 2012-06-04 18:31:59 <D34TH> heh -addip=liteco.in
712 2012-06-04 18:32:06 <D34TH> get all the peers
713 2012-06-04 18:32:37 <D34TH> 10 connections :D
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715 2012-06-04 18:33:51 <avengre> yeah but there's no gui for 0.7 is there?
716 2012-06-04 18:33:53 <avengre> I <3 the gui
717 2012-06-04 18:33:55 <D34TH> there is
718 2012-06-04 18:34:00 <D34TH> bluematt has them compiled
719 2012-06-04 18:34:28 <D34TH> windows right?
720 2012-06-04 18:34:31 <avengre> yeap
721 2012-06-04 18:34:34 <BlueMatt> win32+linux
722 2012-06-04 18:34:43 <D34TH> http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/ws/bitcoin-qt.exe
723 2012-06-04 18:34:48 <BlueMatt> current git master builds can (almost) always be found at http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/ws/
724 2012-06-04 18:34:52 <D34TH> just replace your current bitcoin-qt.exe with that one
725 2012-06-04 18:38:30 <BlueMatt> s/replace//
726 2012-06-04 18:38:42 <BlueMatt> use that bitcoin-qt.exe, dont replace it, and dont use it for large amounts of money
727 2012-06-04 18:38:48 <BlueMatt> or really any amount of money
728 2012-06-04 18:39:30 <D34TH> hmm the windows one keeps reporting 1 diff
729 2012-06-04 18:39:53 <D34TH> linux is reporting current
730 2012-06-04 18:39:55 <D34TH> 16
731 2012-06-04 18:40:28 <BlueMatt> are they peered and on the same block?
732 2012-06-04 18:40:38 <avengre> so ust the bitcoin-qt.exe needs to be 'used'? what about the bitcoind
733 2012-06-04 18:40:49 <avengre> i'm confused... are they different block chains or what
734 2012-06-04 18:41:03 <avengre> (the two testnets)
735 2012-06-04 18:41:11 <D34TH> they are peered and on same block
736 2012-06-04 18:41:12 <BlueMatt> those are different blockchains than 0.6.2, yes
737 2012-06-04 18:41:20 <D34TH> i have the windows addip and addnode the linux
738 2012-06-04 18:41:29 <BlueMatt> D34TH: uhh....I have nfc why that would happen, they are the same code...
739 2012-06-04 18:41:33 <avengre> okay... so if all I want to use is the 'new' blockchain then on this machine, does it matter if I overwrite?
740 2012-06-04 18:42:21 <D34TH> there we go
741 2012-06-04 18:42:23 <D34TH> fixed it
742 2012-06-04 18:42:33 <BlueMatt> it should figure it out for you, but deleting blk0001.dat and blkindex.dat would save disk space
743 2012-06-04 18:42:39 <BlueMatt> D34TH: what was the problem?
744 2012-06-04 18:42:47 <D34TH> just needed a restart
745 2012-06-04 18:44:25 <D34TH> also my windows doesnt like irc
746 2012-06-04 18:44:42 <D34TH> because ipv6
747 2012-06-04 18:47:47 <graingert> D34TH: that's not a reason
748 2012-06-04 18:48:32 <avengre> mmm
749 2012-06-04 18:48:41 <avengre> is that newest version running?
750 2012-06-04 18:48:44 <avengre> i'm getting no connections
751 2012-06-04 18:49:09 <luke-jr> wtf
752 2012-06-04 18:49:12 <D34TH> graingert any irc connection on my pc doesnt like ipv6
753 2012-06-04 18:49:20 <luke-jr> I deleted a wallet.dat and started Bitcoin-Qt and it still insists on using it
754 2012-06-04 18:49:21 <graingert> wat
755 2012-06-04 18:49:36 <D34TH> avengre add -dns -addip=liteco.in
756 2012-06-04 18:50:04 <D34TH> bbl
757 2012-06-04 18:50:09 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: -detachdb
758 2012-06-04 18:51:39 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: trying that
759 2012-06-04 18:51:45 <luke-jr> weird thing is, all the timestamps are Feb 5
760 2012-06-04 18:52:15 <avengre> D34TH: still no dice
761 2012-06-04 18:52:24 <BlueMatt> oh, I thought you were talking about a fresh wallet, I have nfc then luke-jr
762 2012-06-04 18:52:41 <luke-jr> oh I see
763 2012-06-04 18:53:38 <avengre> bitcoin-qt.exe -testnet -conf=testnet/bitcoin.conf -server -dns -addip=liteco.in
764 2012-06-04 18:53:49 <avengre> my client feels lonely
765 2012-06-04 18:55:04 <avengre> ah didn't have the port in there
766 2012-06-04 18:56:36 <avengre> only 1 connection tho.. this is gonna take some time
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776 2012-06-04 19:18:22 <D34TH> avengre try also adding -addnode=liteco.in
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779 2012-06-04 19:20:18 <avengre> yeah I added that in
780 2012-06-04 19:20:28 <avengre> ooh addnode
781 2012-06-04 19:20:29 <avengre> hm
782 2012-06-04 19:21:26 <avengre> ah definately better
783 2012-06-04 19:21:31 <D34TH> :D
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791 2012-06-04 19:36:30 <topi`> has there been any in-depth discussion about the future of forks like litecoin and others? I mean, it's highly likely that BTC will be the only blockchain with "real" worth in it (i.e. the dollars of those speculators)
792 2012-06-04 19:37:13 <topi`> unless there's  a strong momentum towards a new direction (a flaw in the client or any other odd reason)
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795 2012-06-04 19:39:09 <BlueMatt> topi`: because, as you point out, not many people believe altcoins will go anywhere, I dont think there is, if they arent going anywhere, who cares? ;)
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800 2012-06-04 19:41:02 <topi`> BlueMatt: I'm not criticizing their existence :) it's very important that there are options
801 2012-06-04 19:41:43 <BlueMatt> nor am I
802 2012-06-04 19:42:21 <BlueMatt> and I agree, but I dont think anyone will ever give them too much serious attention unless they provide something other than just an exchange of value or there is a serious issue with bitcoin itself
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805 2012-06-04 19:42:55 <BlueMatt> eg p2pool/namecoin/etc may get attention, but solidcoin wont
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807 2012-06-04 19:45:22 <topi`> namecoin is a great project
808 2012-06-04 19:45:49 <BlueMatt> and thats great, but IMHO they will never get serious attention without bitcoin having a serious issue
809 2012-06-04 19:46:20 <BlueMatt> getting people to switch from one thing to another never works unless there is serious added value in the interface they see
810 2012-06-04 19:46:29 <BlueMatt> oh, namecoin, sorry I thought you said solidcoin
811 2012-06-04 19:46:37 <topi`> and I am thinking of implementing a voting system (national or whatever) that would be based on a blockchain and strong anonymity (hence a system that cannot be rigged )
812 2012-06-04 19:46:38 <BlueMatt> yea, namecoin is great
813 2012-06-04 19:47:20 <BlueMatt> alternate uses for blockchains are interesting, but they have to make progress in their own market and, Id argue, are really less bitcoin-related than some say
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815 2012-06-04 19:50:39 <luke-jr> topi`: I think scamcoins hurt Bitcoin's reputation.
816 2012-06-04 19:51:23 <luke-jr> FWIW, http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/branches.html
817 2012-06-04 19:51:28 <GTRsdk> tbh, ScamCoin would have hurt the reputation of all cryptocurrencies
818 2012-06-04 19:53:03 <topi`> luke-jr: also, scammers have hurt credit card companies' reputation, but has anyone cared
819 2012-06-04 19:53:21 Slix` has joined
820 2012-06-04 19:53:29 <luke-jr> topi`: before they had widespread adoption?
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823 2012-06-04 19:54:26 <topi`> a valid point.
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854 2012-06-04 20:45:33 <bayleef> So I moved the blockchain, and restarted bitcoind (next-test). Now it won't go past block 176947
855 2012-06-04 20:45:55 MobiusL has joined
856 2012-06-04 20:46:32 <BlueMatt> bayleef: did you see the message I tagged you in earlier? your chain was never corrupted, it was just taking forever on a reorg, and thus appeared frozen, even though it wasnt
857 2012-06-04 20:47:11 <bayleef> ah. How long are those generally, and can you see the status of them?
858 2012-06-04 20:47:51 <BlueMatt> generally they are very short, for some reason you had a 600+ block orphan chain that was on a separate branch, thus you cant (currently) see the status of it
859 2012-06-04 20:48:15 rdponticelli has joined
860 2012-06-04 20:49:29 <bayleef> Ah. Does the client check for those every so often?
861 2012-06-04 20:49:33 osmosis has joined
862 2012-06-04 20:50:06 <BlueMatt> it will reorg when it gets a new block that makes it realize it was on the wrong chain
863 2012-06-04 20:50:15 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
864 2012-06-04 20:50:25 <BlueMatt> or, as in your case, fills in a gap in the best chain that allows it to connect the rest
865 2012-06-04 20:51:47 <bayleef> ah cool, thanks :)
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871 2012-06-04 20:55:55 <Diapolo> sipa: is it intended to be able to use hostnames in the Bitcoin-Qt Proxyserver option?
872 2012-06-04 20:56:34 <bayleef> so I guess in future, grep the debug.log for REORGANIZE? Would be awesome if it'd say that in errors, instead of "you may need to upgrade"
873 2012-06-04 20:56:38 <BlueMatt> we use vectors for some stupid cases... why would one ever have a vWorkQueue, seems to me the queue in the name may indicate the data structure it should be
874 2012-06-04 20:57:23 <BlueMatt> bayleef: in your debug.log you will notice "Postponing 6XX reconnects" that indicates you will have to wait for 6XX block connects before it returns
875 2012-06-04 20:57:40 <BlueMatt> bayleef: yea, Im looking at cleaning up that output right now
876 2012-06-04 20:57:48 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1417 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1417>
877 2012-06-04 20:58:12 <bayleef> Thanks for your help :)
878 2012-06-04 20:58:42 <BlueMatt> np
879 2012-06-04 20:59:06 <GTRsdk> ;;web title https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1417
880 2012-06-04 20:59:07 <gribble> Pull Request #1417: GUI: add BitcoinGUI::hideTrayIcon() and call on exit by Diapolo · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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896 2012-06-04 21:23:04 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1418 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1418>
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922 2012-06-04 22:39:01 <Nachtwind> hi.. when i am still downloading.. can i use the json rpc on the server - or would that fail?
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924 2012-06-04 22:39:43 <luke-jr> 5141<pubkey>51ae <-- isn't this correct?
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926 2012-06-04 22:44:25 <freewil> Nachtwind, i believe it will fail with an error saying something like "busy downloading blocks..."
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928 2012-06-04 22:44:43 <freewil> or you might not be able to connect to the server at all
929 2012-06-04 22:45:26 <Nachtwind> ah, sounds about right
930 2012-06-04 22:45:37 <Nachtwind> trying to connect via php and it just "fails"
931 2012-06-04 22:45:38 <gavinandresen> RPC will work, but it might take a long time to respond.  getwork/getmemorypool won't work
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933 2012-06-04 22:46:10 <Nachtwind> what about getbalance()?
934 2012-06-04 22:46:40 <gavinandresen> your php json library probably has a timeout, and it isn't waiting the minute or two that it can take if bitcoind is busy processing lots of blocks
935 2012-06-04 22:47:01 <Tuxavant> I am seeking assistance in customizing a .spec file (Fedora) from openssl-1.0.0j-1.fc16.src.rpm? I can tip you Bitcoin for your help.
936 2012-06-04 22:47:04 <gavinandresen> getbalance() won't be correct until you have all blocks, anyway
937 2012-06-04 22:47:05 <Nachtwind> thanks gavin.. that sounds exactly like what i am experiences
938 2012-06-04 22:47:27 <Nachtwind> yeah, i am checking getbalance atm but get connection refused errros from the lib
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957 2012-06-04 23:10:31 <freewil> anyone seen this before?
958 2012-06-04 23:10:40 <freewil> apparently by someone at the NSA from '96
959 2012-06-04 23:10:44 <freewil> http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/money/nsamint/nsamint.htm
960 2012-06-04 23:11:00 <freewil> well several people
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964 2012-06-04 23:18:36 <freewil> Tatsuaki Okamoto
965 2012-06-04 23:18:50 <freewil> that is one of the authors referenced in that paper
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