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10 2012-06-22 00:31:39 <MobiusL> utilizing a proxy in the latest bitcoin .rc1 is not working
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12 2012-06-22 00:37:58 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: MobiusL opened issue 1499 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1499>
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54 2012-06-22 03:03:07 <Karmaon> Is the functionality there yet in the Satoshi client where you can get the transaction ID of potential transaction, but can either send or abort?
55 2012-06-22 03:03:25 imsaguy is now known as i
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63 2012-06-22 03:23:34 <gmaxwell> Karmaon: What do you need that for?
64 2012-06-22 03:23:47 <gmaxwell> (and noâ you can't do that currently)
65 2012-06-22 03:24:40 <gmaxwell> I could guess at uses⦠in any case, you can do things like disconnect the node from the network and keep restoring the wallet if you end up with a txn you don't like... then reconnect it.
66 2012-06-22 03:25:05 <genjix> gambling
67 2012-06-22 03:25:44 <Karmaon> gmaxwell: if a database transaction fails
68 2012-06-22 03:25:56 egecko has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
69 2012-06-22 03:26:08 <Diablo-D3> ITS THE END OF THE WORLD AND I KNOW IT, ITS THE END OF THE WORLD AND I KNOW IT, ITS THE END OF THE WORLD AND I KNOW IT AND I FEEL FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE
70 2012-06-22 03:26:43 <gmaxwell> Karmaon: unfortunately right now you'd have to totally block the bitcoin process to keep the input set from changing out from under you.
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76 2012-06-22 04:00:20 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: or just add a bool fLocked to COutPoint <.<
77 2012-06-22 04:01:45 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: you still won't get any concurrency.
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81 2012-06-22 04:09:22 <return__> cry cry
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84 2012-06-22 04:17:46 <gmaxwell> return__: You okay?
85 2012-06-22 04:18:40 <return__> boost develpers: "lets add "-s" to the middle of the library name"
86 2012-06-22 04:18:46 <Diablo-D3> _fucking boost_
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89 2012-06-22 04:28:47 <luke-jr> return__: lol
90 2012-06-22 04:28:58 <luke-jr> return__: well, stop static linking :p
91 2012-06-22 04:30:54 <return__> i'll work on that right after i get this executable to do -anything- when you run it
92 2012-06-22 04:36:30 <amiller> gmaxwell, "any other node who has witnessed a rule violation in the past can prepare a small message which you would take to be conclusive proof of a rule violation and then ignore that chain"
93 2012-06-22 04:36:35 <amiller> that's totally awesome
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97 2012-06-22 04:38:54 <amiller> here's something similar i thought of, that you could do with a bitcoin that has an enhanced scripting environment, is to encode a 'rule violation detector' for something external and use it as an insurance bond
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99 2012-06-22 04:40:08 <ageis> Diablo-D3: "as we know it"
100 2012-06-22 04:40:12 <amiller> suppose there are 10,000 btc locked up in a bitcoin account that can only be spent after 10 years, or else destroyed/disbursed-as-mining-fees if there are, for example, a pair of double-spend signed transactions (like a violation of a green-address policy)
101 2012-06-22 04:40:18 <Diablo-D3> ageis: er, right
102 2012-06-22 04:40:48 <amiller> there would be a good incentive to be on the look out for a pair of double spends from any address that has such a bounty on it
103 2012-06-22 04:41:22 <gmaxwell> amiller: locking up funds like that is very inefficient however. Makes the usecase less interesting.
104 2012-06-22 04:41:50 <return__> how about less funds
105 2012-06-22 04:42:31 <return__> used as a kind of "notary stamp" for another currency
106 2012-06-22 04:42:31 <amiller> yeah. i haven't been able to think of any better way to hook that up.
107 2012-06-22 04:43:04 <gmaxwell> amiller: otherwise that wouldn't take much of a change to script. ... better than most other more oracular things I've seen suggested. You can also just do that using an oracle-ensemble, which is almost as good.
108 2012-06-22 04:43:52 <gmaxwell> (e.g. put your bond to a multisig of tamperproof hardware run by distinct entities, and have them only release on presentation of evidence)
109 2012-06-22 04:44:23 <gmaxwell> s/proof/resistant/ (of course, .. but to avoid the pedantry I'm about to get...)
110 2012-06-22 04:45:48 <amiller> sure. i'm hoping at some point to make a little language for bitcoin-like smart contracts that can basically 'execute' on different instances of a byzantine consensus system, either an alt chain or a more ordinary distributed network
111 2012-06-22 04:46:00 <amiller> or a single server with a public key, as a simple/degenerate case
112 2012-06-22 04:46:31 <amiller> the basic merkle tree structure seems necessary for the alt chain case to work, but it also makes all the others simpler too
113 2012-06-22 04:46:35 <gmaxwell> I check ebay for ibm cryptocards from time to time.. would be kinda fun to run one as an oracle with a script language much more powerful than bitcoin's.
114 2012-06-22 04:49:47 <amiller> it requires a super small amount of memory to perform tx validation with a the merkle trees, perfect for tiny tamperproof hardware
115 2012-06-22 04:51:28 <gmaxwell> ::nods:: not just that, you can stream the proof.
116 2012-06-22 04:51:38 <gmaxwell> You don't even have to have all of it in memory at once.
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119 2012-06-22 04:56:26 <amiller> i guess a good thing to build would be a stateless pure functional bitcoin verifier
120 2012-06-22 04:57:00 <amiller> maybe one of armory or libbitcoin would do for that, then it would just take picking a serialization format to start having it run on tree structures
121 2012-06-22 04:57:37 <amiller> there's no reason to worry about an alt chain or anything else to begin with
122 2012-06-22 05:00:51 <amiller> it's the Client/Verifier that's interesting, not so much the Server.
123 2012-06-22 05:01:00 <gmaxwell> this is really a task for one of you haskell ninja / coq commanders.
124 2012-06-22 05:02:12 <amiller> copumpkin, how is your adopt-a-haskeller fund going
125 2012-06-22 05:02:38 <copumpkin> amiller: nobody appears to have bitten yet
126 2012-06-22 05:03:19 * gmaxwell vows to always refer to COQ users as 'Coq commanders' especially in spoken discussions.
127 2012-06-22 05:03:22 <doublec> adopt a haskeller?
128 2012-06-22 05:03:45 <amiller> gmaxwell, i love coq, but i suck at it
129 2012-06-22 05:03:53 <Diablo-D3> lol
130 2012-06-22 05:04:10 <gmaxwell> amiller: it takes time to master the coq young padwan.
131 2012-06-22 05:04:31 <gmaxwell> (yea, you got me, my eyes just cross at it)
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133 2012-06-22 05:04:49 <copumpkin> lol
134 2012-06-22 05:04:55 <amiller> doublec, the number of things i've run into recently that sort of *need* to be written in a formally checkable language, ideally Coq/Agda, but Haskell to begin with would be like 80% of the work
135 2012-06-22 05:05:07 <copumpkin> for a while in #haskell we had a super enthusiastic young guy who called himself HaskellLove
136 2012-06-22 05:05:29 <copumpkin> we tried to get him into Coq for obvious reasons :)
137 2012-06-22 05:05:40 <Diablo-D3> ...
138 2012-06-22 05:05:47 <Diablo-D3> did I mention haskell sucks?
139 2012-06-22 05:06:01 <copumpkin> you might have, but I'd have written your opinion off as uninformed and meaningless
140 2012-06-22 05:06:10 <copumpkin> also, I think it'd be kinda cool to have an editor for Coq with foldable blocks of code
141 2012-06-22 05:06:14 <copumpkin> obviously called CoqBloq
142 2012-06-22 05:07:53 <copumpkin> Diablo-D3: sorry, didn't mean to brush you off like that. Why does Haskell suck?
143 2012-06-22 05:09:25 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: because its easy for haskell code â especially written by nubesâ to make Java look very memory efficient?
144 2012-06-22 05:09:31 <copumpkin> lol
145 2012-06-22 05:09:36 <copumpkin> that might be true :)
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149 2012-06-22 05:15:45 <Diablo-D3> copumpkin: its very slow and very hard to understand
150 2012-06-22 05:15:52 <copumpkin> lol
151 2012-06-22 05:15:53 <Diablo-D3> most programmers just cant handle functional languages built like that
152 2012-06-22 05:16:09 <copumpkin> what makes you say it's slow?
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154 2012-06-22 05:16:38 <gmaxwell> It's not slow. Though as I pointed out its easy to be memory inefficient.
155 2012-06-22 05:16:57 <copumpkin> there's an australian university or two that teach it exclusively as a first language to incoming freshmen
156 2012-06-22 05:17:11 <gmaxwell> And functional is hard when you're not familar with it, but the same is true otherwise.
157 2012-06-22 05:17:20 <copumpkin> and they've written reports on how it's no more difficult than other languages, to people who haven't learned to expect other kinds of programming
158 2012-06-22 05:17:22 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: its not fast as C.
159 2012-06-22 05:17:25 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: sounds like a plan, since most incomming programmers flunk out anyways, you can't do much worse!
160 2012-06-22 05:17:39 <Diablo-D3> what I dont get is, why haskell instead of lisp?
161 2012-06-22 05:17:44 <copumpkin> Diablo-D3: there are actually examples of it being faster than C in restricted cases
162 2012-06-22 05:17:57 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: it can be much faster than C (just like fortran can be) because the compiler can be much more powerful.
163 2012-06-22 05:18:06 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: /me shrugs
164 2012-06-22 05:18:10 <copumpkin> Diablo-D3: the type system is amazing, and really hardcore immutability guarantees let the compiler rearrange the code in ways that lisp could never allow
165 2012-06-22 05:18:32 <gmaxwell> And why not lisp? it has a powerful type system (and a standard one well integrated into the language).
166 2012-06-22 05:18:34 <copumpkin> for example, how would you write a word count program in C?
167 2012-06-22 05:18:47 <copumpkin> if you wanted speed
168 2012-06-22 05:19:03 <Diablo-D3> define word count
169 2012-06-22 05:19:09 <gmaxwell> 'wc'
170 2012-06-22 05:19:26 <copumpkin> increment a counter every time there's a transition from whitespace to nonwhitespace
171 2012-06-22 05:19:30 <Diablo-D3> copumpkin: thats easy
172 2012-06-22 05:19:38 <Diablo-D3> upload the text to the gpu, use opencl.
173 2012-06-22 05:19:44 <copumpkin> ...
174 2012-06-22 05:19:58 <Diablo-D3> cant beat that.
175 2012-06-22 05:20:01 <copumpkin> we can do that too
176 2012-06-22 05:20:05 <copumpkin> with a higher-level language
177 2012-06-22 05:20:09 <copumpkin> but I'm talking about CPU programming
178 2012-06-22 05:20:28 D34TH has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
179 2012-06-22 05:20:35 <copumpkin> what would you do to write a fast word counter in C without a GPU?
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181 2012-06-22 05:21:00 <Diablo-D3> I wouldnt bother
182 2012-06-22 05:21:05 <Diablo-D3> its clearly a parallel math problem
183 2012-06-22 05:21:14 <amiller> so there's been all this great positive attention towards merkle trees, but we're really talking about making a new/unusual data structure
184 2012-06-22 05:21:22 <copumpkin> I'm asking because a haskell compiler was able to spot a faster approach than what wc uses and than what would be easy to code in C
185 2012-06-22 05:21:38 <copumpkin> you could code it in C, but it's not the obvious approach at all, and requires jumping through some hoops
186 2012-06-22 05:21:44 <amiller> a really clear and simple implementation would go a long way towards making it usable for bitcoin and altcoins
187 2012-06-22 05:21:53 <copumpkin> furthermore, this arose from pure, immutable, idiomatic haskell code
188 2012-06-22 05:22:10 <Diablo-D3> copumpkin: for me, personally, I dont like haskell because the kind of code Im writing just isnt possible in haskell
189 2012-06-22 05:22:18 <copumpkin> what kind of code is that?
190 2012-06-22 05:22:39 <Diablo-D3> low level code.
191 2012-06-22 05:23:29 <copumpkin> so you like tedium, I take it :)
192 2012-06-22 05:23:40 <luke-jr> I'd read 4096 bytes into BufferA, and spawn 16 threads to go over 256 characters looking for whitespace, then checking the byte before it
193 2012-06-22 05:23:42 <luke-jr> etc
194 2012-06-22 05:23:44 root2 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
195 2012-06-22 05:23:53 <Diablo-D3> copumpkin: well like, I wrote a STM impl
196 2012-06-22 05:24:02 <Diablo-D3> copumpkin: and now writing a malloc impl is next on my list
197 2012-06-22 05:24:03 <luke-jr> and be reading BufferB while they do that
198 2012-06-22 05:24:03 <copumpkin> luke-jr: you have a single core, so the overhead of threading slows you down
199 2012-06-22 05:24:13 <copumpkin> the basic difference
200 2012-06-22 05:24:13 <luke-jr> copumpkin: nonsense :P
201 2012-06-22 05:24:18 <return__> ok i give up anyone know why my bitcoin-qt.exe exited with code -1073741819
202 2012-06-22 05:24:20 root2 has joined
203 2012-06-22 05:24:26 <luke-jr> return__: it wants pizza.
204 2012-06-22 05:24:27 <copumpkin> is that most people would write the actual wc algorithm by storing a flag
205 2012-06-22 05:24:30 <copumpkin> of whether you're in a word or not
206 2012-06-22 05:24:34 <luke-jr> O.o
207 2012-06-22 05:24:52 <copumpkin> that's how wc implements it, for example
208 2012-06-22 05:25:04 <copumpkin> (it's how I did it in brainfuck ,when I wrote wc in brainfuck)
209 2012-06-22 05:25:42 <copumpkin> the realization is that that flag is essentially an indirect encoding of a simple two-state machine
210 2012-06-22 05:25:57 <return__> i guess i need to re build everything and make sure its all set to the same target
211 2012-06-22 05:26:01 <copumpkin> and so the optimized haskell version actually represented that explicitly, and the program counter was effectively that flag
212 2012-06-22 05:26:06 <copumpkin> so there was no explicit flag
213 2012-06-22 05:26:16 <copumpkin> and no additional branching/conditional operations to do that
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215 2012-06-22 05:28:14 <copumpkin> Diablo-D3: STM is kinda cool. What is going to use it? is it just a library you can use in C or something?
216 2012-06-22 05:28:29 <Diablo-D3> copumpkin: Im building an entire base library
217 2012-06-22 05:28:31 <copumpkin> (we also have STM in GHC haskell, I might add :P)
218 2012-06-22 05:28:35 <Diablo-D3> because Im tired of libs like glib and apr sucking dick
219 2012-06-22 05:29:03 <copumpkin> I wonder where roconnor went
220 2012-06-22 05:30:48 <Karmaon> Does it bother a miner if you send a single byte periodicly, such as every 30 seconds on a longpoll url?
221 2012-06-22 05:30:56 <Diablo-D3> Karmaon: doesnt seem to
222 2012-06-22 05:31:01 <Diablo-D3> copumpkin: btw, the hilarity is
223 2012-06-22 05:31:06 <Diablo-D3> copumpkin: my malloc impl will use stm
224 2012-06-22 05:31:16 <Diablo-D3> copumpkin: thus, allocations exist within stm transactions
225 2012-06-22 05:31:22 <copumpkin> hmm
226 2012-06-22 05:31:29 <copumpkin> did you see that article on why STM failed in C#?
227 2012-06-22 05:31:37 <Diablo-D3> why would c# need stm?
228 2012-06-22 05:31:38 <copumpkin> and the usual explanation as to why it doesn't fail similarly in haskell?
229 2012-06-22 05:31:47 <Diablo-D3> c# is the wrong language for it
230 2012-06-22 05:31:51 <copumpkin> I agree
231 2012-06-22 05:32:24 <Diablo-D3> C technically is too, but nothing stops me from just writing 20 lines at a whack to use stm
232 2012-06-22 05:32:38 <copumpkin> well, their approach in C#, and what most people says flawed
233 2012-06-22 05:32:42 <copumpkin> was to make all variables transactional
234 2012-06-22 05:32:44 <copumpkin> which is kinda stupid
235 2012-06-22 05:32:51 <amiller> the two neat things about the 'merkle tree' data structure is 1) that it has two modes basically, Verify and Apply, the other is that 2) it's very general since it applies to lists as well as any sort of tree
236 2012-06-22 05:32:58 <copumpkin> it works in haskell because we're used to controlling state and keeping mutable state to a minimum
237 2012-06-22 05:33:11 <amiller> the difference between verify and apply is really important because there's a security claim lying in there
238 2012-06-22 05:33:12 <copumpkin> so we only declare one or two variables as transactional and only those are STMified
239 2012-06-22 05:33:37 <copumpkin> amiller: where's your bounty!
240 2012-06-22 05:33:39 sytse has joined
241 2012-06-22 05:33:47 <amiller> copumpkin, i don't know where to post a bounty but it's $500 for now
242 2012-06-22 05:33:53 <copumpkin> oh nice
243 2012-06-22 05:33:57 <amiller> for just haskell, i'll pay extra for coq
244 2012-06-22 05:34:07 <copumpkin> hmm
245 2012-06-22 05:34:07 * copumpkin chuckles
246 2012-06-22 05:34:36 <amiller> maybe that would be a fun kickstarter, just for the video in which we talk about all the desirable qualities of coq
247 2012-06-22 05:34:41 <copumpkin> amiller: you should poke roconnor and see if he's in the mood
248 2012-06-22 05:34:54 RainbowDashh has joined
249 2012-06-22 05:35:00 <copumpkin> seems like the kind of thing he'd be good at
250 2012-06-22 05:35:56 <copumpkin> amiller: it might be worth posting to haskell-cafe
251 2012-06-22 05:35:59 <copumpkin> or something like that
252 2012-06-22 05:36:06 <amiller> hey Ken`, how are you doing!
253 2012-06-22 05:36:26 <amiller> ken's also a grad student in some cool formal verification lab
254 2012-06-22 05:36:37 <copumpkin> I think we've spoken at some point, yeah
255 2012-06-22 05:38:06 <amiller> i emailed the professor who wrote the persistent auth dict paper i like the most to see if he knows of any implementations, maybe i've just missed some
256 2012-06-22 05:38:25 <Diablo-D3> [01:28:59] <copumpkin> well, their approach in C#, and what most people says flawed
257 2012-06-22 05:38:26 <Diablo-D3> [01:29:03] <copumpkin> was to make all variables transactional
258 2012-06-22 05:38:26 <Diablo-D3> [01:29:05] <copumpkin> which is kinda stupid
259 2012-06-22 05:38:28 <Diablo-D3> thats extra stupid
260 2012-06-22 05:38:34 <Diablo-D3> in mine, its just addresses and lengths
261 2012-06-22 05:38:44 <Diablo-D3> the programmer has to make sure what he does makes sense
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263 2012-06-22 05:38:58 <Diablo-D3> ie, the interfaces are memcpyey
264 2012-06-22 05:40:37 <copumpkin> ah, okay
265 2012-06-22 05:43:37 <Diablo-D3> stm is also the only thing in the entire thing that is mallocing too
266 2012-06-22 05:43:45 <Diablo-D3> oh, and my malloc impl too when I actually go and write that
267 2012-06-22 05:44:08 <Diablo-D3> copumpkin: problem is, my stm impl is too slow
268 2012-06-22 05:44:16 <Diablo-D3> I need to work on speeding it up
269 2012-06-22 05:44:40 <copumpkin> sounds difficult to get right and a pain to debug if you get it wrong :/
270 2012-06-22 05:44:41 <Diablo-D3> copumpkin: on a test that constantly blocks on my c2d it only does like 15m tx/sec
271 2012-06-22 05:47:41 <Diablo-D3> copumpkin: what I want, in a way, is to make C more like Erlang
272 2012-06-22 05:48:05 <Diablo-D3> very hard to kill, nearly crash proof, and it quickly recovers even if it does crash
273 2012-06-22 05:48:16 <Diablo-D3> its going to be difficult, and Im most likely going to fail
274 2012-06-22 05:48:40 <Diablo-D3> copumpkin: and its funny
275 2012-06-22 05:48:43 <Diablo-D3> even though Im adding STM
276 2012-06-22 05:48:51 <Diablo-D3> the correct way to use lugh is with processes and pipes
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278 2012-06-22 05:59:17 <copumpkin> I see
279 2012-06-22 05:59:47 <Diablo-D3> but you cant saturate multiple cores on a single calculation without threads
280 2012-06-22 06:00:00 <Diablo-D3> sometimes you really DO want to share the state across multiple threads
281 2012-06-22 06:03:44 <copumpkin> sure
282 2012-06-22 06:03:47 <copumpkin> I don't deny that
283 2012-06-22 06:04:07 <copumpkin> the question boils down to what primitives you give developers to harness them
284 2012-06-22 06:04:14 <Diablo-D3> well
285 2012-06-22 06:04:19 <Diablo-D3> Im trying to add as much of the boring shit as possible
286 2012-06-22 06:04:32 <Diablo-D3> so they can just start plugging the shit into each other like normal
287 2012-06-22 06:04:40 <Diablo-D3> like any other base lib does
288 2012-06-22 06:05:04 <Diablo-D3> like before I started taking a break and work on something completely unrelated
289 2012-06-22 06:05:10 <Diablo-D3> I was working on something really really simple
290 2012-06-22 06:05:16 <Diablo-D3> a bitfield impl.
291 2012-06-22 06:05:33 <Diablo-D3> something that is both useful and very easy to impl
292 2012-06-22 06:05:39 <Diablo-D3> copumpkin: oh, and btw
293 2012-06-22 06:05:47 <Diablo-D3> I added layered transactions
294 2012-06-22 06:06:24 <Diablo-D3> only the root transaction can commit for real
295 2012-06-22 06:11:15 <copumpkin> hmm cool :)
296 2012-06-22 06:11:19 <copumpkin> anyway, I must sleep
297 2012-06-22 06:11:21 <copumpkin> work tomorrow!
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308 2012-06-22 07:13:02 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: xanatos opened pull request 1500 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1500>
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346 2012-06-22 09:14:38 <amiller> etotheipi_, guess what roconnor did http://www.reddit.com/r/dependent_types/comments/qmlml/patricia_trie_challenge/
347 2012-06-22 09:14:54 <amiller> he posted a complete specification for a patricia tree in Agda
348 2012-06-22 09:15:03 <amiller> and someone implemented it as a challenge
349 2012-06-22 09:15:40 <amiller> copumpkin, ^^
350 2012-06-22 09:17:56 <amiller> copumpkin, how would you write a specification for a merkle tree in agda? how would you describe a hash collision?
351 2012-06-22 09:18:08 <amiller> would the right way be to start with a one-way function?
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367 2012-06-22 11:06:34 <Eliel> amiller: I expect agda specifications are kind of like mathematical ones? Mathematically I'd express that somehow like: Exists a, b, a != b such that H(a) == H(b)
368 2012-06-22 11:07:05 <Eliel> The Exists clause needs to be replaced though, it should only apply to what's in the blockchain.
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370 2012-06-22 11:09:07 <amiller> how to avoid specifying a particular hash function?
371 2012-06-22 11:09:23 <amiller> perhaps we can quantify over all possible functions
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373 2012-06-22 11:20:01 <amiller> a merkle tree would need to be a set/datastructure
374 2012-06-22 11:20:27 <amiller> then the set of hash functions is any function from that set as the domain, to any range
375 2012-06-22 11:21:25 <amiller> the only way to produce a hash collision under those conditions would be to actually produce two equivalent elements from that set
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377 2012-06-22 11:26:56 <Eliel> amiller: I'm not sure if it makes sense to not specify a particular hash function.
378 2012-06-22 11:27:20 <Eliel> unless it's simpler that way
379 2012-06-22 11:27:58 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: fanquake opened pull request 1501 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1501>
380 2012-06-22 11:32:12 paraipan has joined
381 2012-06-22 11:35:21 Fabrice_ has joined
382 2012-06-22 11:35:37 <Fabrice_> hi there
383 2012-06-22 11:43:59 <amiller> hello Fabrice_
384 2012-06-22 11:44:31 <Fabrice_> I got a question: Is there a way to see if my wallet has a balance without opening it with bitcoin client?
385 2012-06-22 11:47:34 Guest10394 has joined
386 2012-06-22 11:47:44 <sipa> Fabrice_: not really
387 2012-06-22 11:47:55 <sipa> Fabrice_: you can see how many coins are received by a certain address, though
388 2012-06-22 11:49:21 <Fabrice_> really? can you tell me?
389 2012-06-22 11:50:02 <sipa> blockchain.info and blockexplorer.com can
390 2012-06-22 11:50:21 <sipa> and probably a dozen similar sites
391 2012-06-22 11:51:21 <Fabrice_> sorry, that I already know. any way to see that a "wallet" received anything by looking at it in notepad or anything else?
392 2012-06-22 11:51:42 <sipa> no
393 2012-06-22 11:52:30 <sipa> it's a BDB database file, with keys and transaction in a custom serialized binary format
394 2012-06-22 11:52:39 <sipa> not rewally human-parsable
395 2012-06-22 11:52:53 <sipa> though there are some python tools to access it
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397 2012-06-22 11:57:28 <Fabrice_> yes, I have read about pywallet...
398 2012-06-22 11:58:23 <sipa> though if you want to automate access to a wallet, use bitcoin's rpc interface
399 2012-06-22 11:58:29 <Fabrice_> but I think pywallet doesn't do what I want.
400 2012-06-22 11:58:38 <sipa> well what do you want?
401 2012-06-22 11:59:01 <sipa> getbalance will tell you the balance of the wallet
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403 2012-06-22 11:59:12 <sipa> getreceivedbyaddress will tell you the received amount per address
404 2012-06-22 11:59:55 <Fabrice_> ok, getbalance could possibly help me - I will check. Thanks man.
405 2012-06-22 12:00:31 <sipa> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_reference_(JSON-RPC)
406 2012-06-22 12:00:33 <sipa> read that
407 2012-06-22 12:00:45 <Fabrice_> thanks
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421 2012-06-22 12:50:51 <Cory> How long does a rescan usually take?
422 2012-06-22 12:51:26 <sipa> if the blockchain is cached in memory: a few seconds; otherwise: the time to read the blockchain from disk
423 2012-06-22 12:52:24 <Cory> Thanks.
424 2012-06-22 12:55:35 TheSeven has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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426 2012-06-22 13:04:45 <Cory> Hm, I have an address in my wallet but the transaction's not showing up. Is there any chance it will once its in a block?
427 2012-06-22 13:04:58 <sipa> it will
428 2012-06-22 13:05:20 <Cory> Heh, so this has happened before?
429 2012-06-22 13:05:41 <sipa> if you're offline at the time the transaction is broadcast, you don't receive it
430 2012-06-22 13:05:54 <Cory> Oh! I didn't know that. :)
431 2012-06-22 13:06:02 <sipa> but as long as it reached miners, they will include it in a block after some time
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433 2012-06-22 13:06:29 <Cory> Awesome, thanks. That's actually a pretty big feature not to know about.
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439 2012-06-22 13:22:45 <epscy> sipa: how much of the blockchain does bitcoind try to cache in memory?
440 2012-06-22 13:22:51 <epscy> is this configurable?
441 2012-06-22 13:27:20 <gavinandresen> epscy: bdb cache can be configured (create a DB_CONFIG file in your bitcoin data directory)
442 2012-06-22 13:27:55 <gavinandresen> epscy: the actual blocks aren't cached by bitcoind, but should be cached by your operating system
443 2012-06-22 13:28:30 <gavinandresen> (I know Linux is pretty good about using free memory to cache filesystem pages)
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445 2012-06-22 13:33:15 <sipa> epscy: none; caching is a job for your OS (and does a pretty good job)
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449 2012-06-22 13:47:06 <Cory> Any idea why some of the transactions described as "high priority" on http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/txlist/ have a lower priority number than some of the transactions not described as "high priority"?
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452 2012-06-22 13:54:46 <gavinandresen> Cory: because transactions with more than 0.0005 BTC-per-kilobyte are considered 'high priority', no matter what their actual priority is.
453 2012-06-22 13:55:08 <epscy> sipa: gavinandresen: thanks
454 2012-06-22 13:55:50 <gavinandresen> Cory: that is, transactions with a high enough fee are considered 'high priority'
455 2012-06-22 13:56:33 <gavinandresen> any transaction with unconfirmed inputs is really low-priority, too...
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470 2012-06-22 14:34:25 <jgarzik> bitcoinmoney.com: "SatoshiDICE quickly added a translation of its site to Russian. [...] The swift arrival of Martingale betting bots from Russian developers combined with other clues point to Russia as being one of SatoshiDICEâs largest markets."
471 2012-06-22 14:35:22 <gmaxwell> Apparently they don't teach math in russia anymore?
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475 2012-06-22 14:43:31 <gavinandresen> Russians seem to have a fondness for wacky get-rich-quick schemes, even a little more than Americans
476 2012-06-22 14:44:29 ThomasV has joined
477 2012-06-22 14:44:40 Diapolo has joined
478 2012-06-22 14:49:48 <jgarzik> just wait until SD is translated into Chinese ;)
479 2012-06-22 14:50:20 <jeremias> everyone has appetite for get-rich-quick schemes
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481 2012-06-22 14:56:01 <epscy> the max bet limit for the 50% satoshidice game used to be > 400btc
482 2012-06-22 14:56:22 <epscy> with that it would take quite some time to hit a losing streak that would wipe you out
483 2012-06-22 14:56:34 <epscy> depending on what your starting bet is
484 2012-06-22 14:56:39 <epscy> using martingale
485 2012-06-22 14:56:53 <epscy> of course now SD reduced the max bet to 5btc
486 2012-06-22 14:57:00 <epscy> so it is a lot more risky now
487 2012-06-22 14:57:50 <epscy> and i agree, get rish quick schemes entice everybody, not just russians
488 2012-06-22 14:57:56 <epscy> erm rich
489 2012-06-22 15:02:39 <jgarzik> gavinandresen gmaxwell sipa: what are the 0.7 release blockers at this point?
490 2012-06-22 15:02:52 <jgarzik> a generic "not enough features" :) or anything more specific?
491 2012-06-22 15:03:19 <gavinandresen> lets talk about features for 0.7
492 2012-06-22 15:03:32 <gavinandresen> I want the raw transaction stuff, so we can move forward with multidevice security
493 2012-06-22 15:03:48 <gmaxwell> I also think its time we get the raw transaction stuff in.
494 2012-06-22 15:03:54 <gmaxwell> And it's worth delaying the release for it.
495 2012-06-22 15:04:03 <Cory> Is a fee of 0.0005 BTC special to Satoshi clients, too? Or is it just a bitcoincharts thing?
496 2012-06-22 15:04:08 <gavinandresen> I think transaction fee knobs for miners is also very important to get out soon
497 2012-06-22 15:04:16 <gmaxwell> Hidden service support is merge ready as far as I can tell.
498 2012-06-22 15:04:19 <jgarzik> hmmmm, an RPC to dump the memory pool would be useful. Any objections?
499 2012-06-22 15:04:30 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: isn't that getmemorypool ?
500 2012-06-22 15:06:12 <gavinandresen> wumpus: any "gotta have" features for bitcoin-Qt you want to see in 0.7 ?
501 2012-06-22 15:06:39 <jgarzik> indeed... I am so rusty. Still stuck in 2011 ;)
502 2012-06-22 15:07:01 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: ACK on hidden service stuff, just needs a rebase/doc tweak and I think it is ready
503 2012-06-22 15:07:15 <jgarzik> or maybe i just need my breakfast and "coffee"
504 2012-06-22 15:07:41 <jgarzik> getblock + getmemorypool + sendrawtx should be sufficient for remote wallet
505 2012-06-22 15:07:52 <gmaxwell> There are a number of 'minor fix' level pulls lurning around.
506 2012-06-22 15:08:05 <jgarzik> sendrawtx needs a fix, to force a broadcast
507 2012-06-22 15:08:20 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: if I recall correctly, getmemorypool doesn't return the entire memorypool. I don't know if luke's pull has an option to do that.
508 2012-06-22 15:08:36 <sipa> it builds a block from the memorypool
509 2012-06-22 15:08:39 <kinlo> there is an option afaik, lemme doublecheck
510 2012-06-22 15:09:03 <gmaxwell> The enhacements add a lot of options to control what it gives you.
511 2012-06-22 15:09:04 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: getmemorypool calls CreateNewBlock(), and then iterates through CBlock::vtx
512 2012-06-22 15:09:23 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: ok, so it is misnamed....
513 2012-06-22 15:09:29 * jgarzik wants reallygetmemorypool!
514 2012-06-22 15:09:40 <gavinandresen> getpendingtransactions
515 2012-06-22 15:09:49 <jgarzik> getrawmempool
516 2012-06-22 15:09:57 <gmaxwell> Whats the application?
517 2012-06-22 15:10:07 <gavinandresen> getrawmempool : returns array of hex-encoded transactions in memory pool
518 2012-06-22 15:10:26 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: remote monitoring of blockchain + memory pool
519 2012-06-22 15:10:31 <gmaxwell> You can gettransaction transactions from the real mempool right now. The only missing part is finding out whats in it for things you wouldn't mine right now.
520 2012-06-22 15:10:52 <gavinandresen> or getrawmempool : returns array of transaction ids in memory pool
521 2012-06-22 15:11:06 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: either seems OK to me
522 2012-06-22 15:11:12 <sipa> i prefer txids, we already have gettransaction
523 2012-06-22 15:11:14 <gmaxwell> ^ thats probably better since we can gettransaction them.
524 2012-06-22 15:11:20 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: but then you must issue thousands of RPCs...
525 2012-06-22 15:11:35 <jgarzik> that's a lot of HTTP overhead
526 2012-06-22 15:12:05 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: I'm not sure what you're really thinking of doing there. It would be insecure to have a remote wallet use txn that the full node wouldn't even consider mining.
527 2012-06-22 15:12:14 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: they may be orphan for example.
528 2012-06-22 15:12:15 <sipa> maybe we need a server-side RPC scrupting language that can issue and combine arbitrary commands before returning ;)
529 2012-06-22 15:12:15 <gavinandresen> I think the answer to that is to support JSON-2.0, with it's send-an-array-of-commands, return an array-of-responses
530 2012-06-22 15:12:28 <jgarzik> there is probably more HTTP header than HTTP data, if you must send one gettransaction per memory pool tx...
531 2012-06-22 15:12:49 <gavinandresen> It WOULD be cool to be able to refer to the results of previous commands....
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533 2012-06-22 15:13:02 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: why not just make it completely evil and go with soap/wsdls at that point, heh
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535 2012-06-22 15:13:35 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: I'm sure we'll soon see requests along those lines now that the RPC interface is exposed in the gui. :)
536 2012-06-22 15:13:35 <sipa> let's allow an RPC client to upload some x86 assembly to be executed on the server
537 2012-06-22 15:13:45 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: haha right
538 2012-06-22 15:13:58 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: right, instead you'd JSON 2.0 and it'd be something like '[ { "method" : "gettransaction", "params" : "txid1"}, ... etc ]'
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540 2012-06-22 15:14:14 <jgarzik> KISS. Just need some method of batching RPCs and results (and it sounds like jrpc 2 does this?)
541 2012-06-22 15:14:32 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: i was being facetious but there's some truth there, you take the api documentation reqs up a few notches adding calls like that
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543 2012-06-22 15:14:48 <jrmithdobbs> you're pushing closer to something like wsdls at that point :(
544 2012-06-22 15:14:49 <gavinandresen> yes, JSON-RPC 2.0 does that. I implemented it a year or two ago, but none of the JSON wrapper libraries supported 2.0 back then so i junked the pull
545 2012-06-22 15:15:06 <jgarzik> sipa: that's the direction Google is moving towards, with Native Client stuff...
546 2012-06-22 15:15:50 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: it's easy enough to use url "/" for json-rpc 1.x and "/v2/" for json-rpc 2.x
547 2012-06-22 15:16:30 <jgarzik> we'd want to support 1.x for a long time to come, if not forever, due to popularity...
548 2012-06-22 15:16:34 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: no need for separate urls, JSON 2.0 is compatible with JSON 1.0 and self-identifies
549 2012-06-22 15:17:20 <jgarzik> even better
550 2012-06-22 15:17:46 <sipa> gmaxwell: 37% of the open txout data is transaction id's
551 2012-06-22 15:18:26 <sipa> gmaxwell: i wonder if we can't limit to only storing 128 or 160 bits instead of 256
552 2012-06-22 15:19:15 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: do you still have a branch or github url of your work lying around anywhere?
553 2012-06-22 15:19:53 <sipa> gmaxwell: other statistics: scripts are around 21.3 bytes per txout, and account for 56%
554 2012-06-22 15:19:57 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: lemme look
555 2012-06-22 15:20:05 <Diapolo> gavinandresen: wumpus seems to be online a little unsteady currently, which slows GUI things a little
556 2012-06-22 15:20:36 <sipa> gmaxwell: amounts take 2.1 byte per txout, and take less than 6%
557 2012-06-22 15:20:51 <gmaxwell> sipa: I don't think modest linear factors are worth differences that require thinking hard about security compromises.
558 2012-06-22 15:21:04 MoPac has joined
559 2012-06-22 15:21:27 <sipa> gmaxwell: yeah, i'm probably focussing too much on squishing out the last couple of bytes
560 2012-06-22 15:22:22 <gmaxwell> sipa: right. Some squeezing where its 'costless' is, well probably a waste of your time, but harmless. But no one else has to think hard about that at least. :)
561 2012-06-22 15:23:10 p0s has joined
562 2012-06-22 15:24:15 <MoPac> 2!~MoPac@gateway/tor-sasl/mopac|Hi, I'm hoping this is the right place to ask: I'm having trouble getting the bitcoin-qt client pulled down using the PPA (precise). The repository installed and got the key -- has anyone else had this problem?
563 2012-06-22 15:24:34 <Diapolo> What is the plan with the todos in the source? There a quite a few places in core, which could be improved by working on them. Perhaps some are easily fixable. Just want to mention, don' core patches
564 2012-06-22 15:24:42 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: can't find the JSON 2.0 work. It wasn't hard; if request is JSON 2.0 and has an array of method/params, then loop over them all, gathering results and returning an array.
565 2012-06-22 15:24:43 <Diapolo> don't want to do ^^ was missing
566 2012-06-22 15:28:10 <gavinandresen> Diapolo: changing things in the core is done only reluctantly and with great care, because it is much too easy to accidentally introduce a disastrous bug. The benefits have to clearly outweigh the risks.
567 2012-06-22 15:30:13 bitvampire has joined
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569 2012-06-22 15:30:22 <Diapolo> gavinandresen: I agree and it was just a question if there is a plan for the left todos. By the way, is it possible to give rights to a user on Github to only close GUI tagged issues?
570 2012-06-22 15:31:28 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: cool, I can recreate
571 2012-06-22 15:31:49 <Diapolo> sipa: I'm going to listen for the ToR stuff have a little time left currently.
572 2012-06-22 15:31:56 bitllc has joined
573 2012-06-22 15:32:29 <sipa> Diapolo: in essence, there are some netbase functions SetProxy(network, ...) and SetNameProxy now
574 2012-06-22 15:32:42 <gmaxwell> sipa: the current tor docs (sorry, just reviewing them now) are going to result in a lot of people setting -externalip=57qr3yd1nyntf5k.onion The example should probably have an invalid base32 character perhaps?
575 2012-06-22 15:32:53 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: http://www.jsonrpc.org/specification
576 2012-06-22 15:33:02 <gavinandresen> "Batch"
577 2012-06-22 15:33:30 <sipa> gmaxwell: it is
578 2012-06-22 15:33:50 <sipa> gmaxwell: but this reminds me that the client should probably complain much more loudly
579 2012-06-22 15:34:05 <sipa> when undecodable addresses are given on the command line
580 2012-06-22 15:35:24 <Diapolo> sipa: We currently have ApplyProxySettings(), which uses SetProxy(NET_IPV4, addrProxy, nSocksVersion); and SetProxy(NET_IPV6, addrProxy, nSocksVersion);. Should be expandable :).
581 2012-06-22 15:35:50 <Diapolo> sipa: SetNameProxy() would be used for a hostname I guess?
582 2012-06-22 15:37:31 <sipa> Diapolo: exactly; i wouldn't expose setnameproxy to the GUI; just always set it to the same as the IPV4 one, unless socks4 is selected for that, in which case disable it
583 2012-06-22 15:38:53 <sipa> Diapolo: but i envision the option page as a "[ ] Use SOCKS proxy: [...] Version: [5]", followed by a few more lines of the form "[ ] Use separate proxy for IPv6: [...] Version: [5]", ...
584 2012-06-22 15:38:59 <luke-jr> hmm
585 2012-06-22 15:39:05 <luke-jr> IPv6 RPC breaks the Windows build
586 2012-06-22 15:39:54 <sipa> Diapolo: the tor line would be something like "[ ] Use separate proxy for Tor hidden services: [...]", without SOCKS version selector
587 2012-06-22 15:40:00 <sipa> (it has to be 5)
588 2012-06-22 15:40:41 <sipa> ... we probably need a loop checker for the proxy config, as you could set the IPv4 proxy to an onion address, and the onion proxy to an IPv4 address...
589 2012-06-22 15:41:20 <Diapolo> sipa: so in the end there would be an IPv4, IPv6 proxy with SOCKS5 as default (but 4 selectable) and TOR proxy without SOCKS version (which has to be 5)?
590 2012-06-22 15:41:33 <Diapolo> sipa: talked about the needed input fields
591 2012-06-22 15:41:39 <sipa> Diapolo: yes
592 2012-06-22 15:42:25 <Diapolo> sipa: to understand, I can set IPv4 and IPv6 differently in the core currently or after merging the hidden service pull?
593 2012-06-22 15:42:35 <sipa> Diapolo: that's currently possible
594 2012-06-22 15:42:57 <Diapolo> sipa: so we are behind GUI wise currently even without the pull ... alright
595 2012-06-22 15:43:00 <jgarzik> hmmm
596 2012-06-22 15:43:02 <sipa> Diapolo: maybe a radio button to select between "One proxy to rule them all" or "Select proxy per network"
597 2012-06-22 15:43:11 <Diapolo> good idea
598 2012-06-22 15:43:58 <jgarzik> AFAICS, orphans exit mapOrphanTransactions upon "tx" message only
599 2012-06-22 15:44:14 <jgarzik> it seems like we should scan that once per accepted block, too
600 2012-06-22 15:46:28 t7 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0/20120612164001])
601 2012-06-22 15:48:37 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
602 2012-06-22 15:52:26 <Diapolo> sipa: One question, GUI related, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/qt/optionsmodel.cpp#L89 upgrade() is just there to just fix old settings right?
603 2012-06-22 15:52:55 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: jgarzik opened pull request 1502 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1502>
604 2012-06-22 15:53:27 <drizztbsd> hi, is there any bitcointalk mod here?
605 2012-06-22 15:53:35 <jgarzik> getrawmempool tested & pushed
606 2012-06-22 15:57:33 dvide_ has joined
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608 2012-06-22 15:58:20 * gavinandresen hides
609 2012-06-22 15:59:21 T_X has joined
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612 2012-06-22 15:59:24 <luke-jr> is there a reason not to just add a "don't priority-sort memory pool" option to getmemorypool (and implement "sizelimit":false)?
613 2012-06-22 15:59:55 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: yuck. Why?
614 2012-06-22 15:59:58 <sipa> i prefer not overloading one RPC call with too many functionality
615 2012-06-22 15:59:58 <Diapolo> sipa: IPv6 works with SOCKS4, so for v6 both can be used?
616 2012-06-22 16:00:11 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: why add another RPC method for essentially the same purpose?
617 2012-06-22 16:00:11 <gavinandresen> one function with gazillions of options is bad
618 2012-06-22 16:00:12 <sipa> Diapolo: no, IPv6 actually also needs SOCKS5
619 2012-06-22 16:00:15 <gmaxwell> oh for getmempool.
620 2012-06-22 16:00:27 <luke-jr> getrawmempool is far more overlap with getmemorypool than submitblock wasâ¦
621 2012-06-22 16:00:33 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: the fact that what getmempool does normally needs to work through the block creation code?
622 2012-06-22 16:00:38 <gavinandresen> "do one thing and do it well"
623 2012-06-22 16:00:49 <sipa> luke-jr: contrary to its name, the purpose of gemtmemorypool is not for getting the memory pool; it is for requesting and submitting block mining templates
624 2012-06-22 16:00:57 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: we seem to have two conflicting policies in place thenâ¦
625 2012-06-22 16:01:35 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: we hid submitblock inside getmemorypool to reduce RPC methods
626 2012-06-22 16:01:38 <gavinandresen> only two? we're lucky!
627 2012-06-22 16:01:45 <Diapolo> sipa: thanks
628 2012-06-22 16:02:22 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: In any case, getmempool calls createblock. Thats pretty wildly different than actually trying to get the raw unfiltered memorypool.
629 2012-06-22 16:02:32 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: that's an implementation detail; it doesn't have to;.
630 2012-06-22 16:02:46 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: that was a mistake, in my opinion. Not a big enough one that I care about fixing it, though.
631 2012-06-22 16:02:58 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gmaxwell opened pull request 1503 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1503>
632 2012-06-22 16:03:15 <luke-jr> whatever
633 2012-06-22 16:04:15 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: I generally perfer to not create new top level RPCs for every optional variation of existing ones. (This isn't to say that I prefer deathstar RPCs ("dosomething") either)
634 2012-06-22 16:04:27 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: can you sync the testnet3 blockchain with pull 1503 changes? I explicitly created some invalid-under-new-rules-before-switchover-date blocks in tesnet3
635 2012-06-22 16:06:01 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: getmemorypool-in-theory, BIP 22, intentionally supports this use case, but whatever
636 2012-06-22 16:07:42 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: I already did, but I'll double check to make sure I didn't screw up. :)
637 2012-06-22 16:08:19 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: I was generating blocks with a fake time that might have been before BOTH switchover times, so it might just work.
638 2012-06-22 16:08:30 m00p has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
639 2012-06-22 16:08:46 <gavinandresen> (and I only did the BIP16 switchover, not BIP30)
640 2012-06-22 16:08:53 MoPac has quit (2!~MoPac@gateway/tor-sasl/mopac|Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
641 2012-06-22 16:09:10 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: yea, I thought you might have had bip16 tests which was why I even bothered to test it first.
642 2012-06-22 16:09:36 * gavinandresen will be back later
643 2012-06-22 16:15:01 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
644 2012-06-22 16:15:39 <MysteryBanshee> http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/06/22/the-bitcoin-richest-accumulating-large-balances/
645 2012-06-22 16:16:21 _flow_ has joined
646 2012-06-22 16:20:41 Diapolo has left ()
647 2012-06-22 16:20:57 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: yea, my testing was fine. However, I do see that testnet3 has a problem syncing from the network right now (With or without that patch). Loadblocks is okay.
648 2012-06-22 16:22:05 kinlo has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
649 2012-06-22 16:22:57 t7 has joined
650 2012-06-22 16:24:13 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: Looks like it connects to some peer and gets fed some of the old testnet chain. It rejects block 1 of the old testnet chain. Then just sits there with no blocks. (I assume that when testnet3 gets a new block it'll sync up)
651 2012-06-22 16:24:29 <gmaxwell> We really should also have changed the protocol magic for testnet3.
652 2012-06-22 16:25:11 <luke-jr> ^++
653 2012-06-22 16:25:34 Hasbro has joined
654 2012-06-22 16:25:54 <gmaxwell> (I'll leave it alone for a while and see if it ever recovers)
655 2012-06-22 16:30:15 kinlo has joined
656 2012-06-22 16:30:45 <UukGoblin> looking for a library that could do basic p2p functionality: node discovery, rate-limiting, misbehaver blacklisting
657 2012-06-22 16:31:12 <UukGoblin> perhaps maybe also message broadcasting
658 2012-06-22 16:36:29 phma has joined
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661 2012-06-22 16:51:16 <gmaxwell> half an hour and my testnet3 node is still stuck.
662 2012-06-22 16:52:32 wizkid057 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
663 2012-06-22 16:53:27 wizkid057 has joined
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665 2012-06-22 17:03:22 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: I started up a testnet node and mined a block; no idea if I am caught up to the chain, though (7351 blocks)
666 2012-06-22 17:03:38 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: you fixed me.
667 2012-06-22 17:03:56 <gmaxwell> 7351 sounded right.
668 2012-06-22 17:04:38 <gmaxwell> Yea, so it recovers on new blocks. Still kinda cruddy.
669 2012-06-22 17:05:05 <gmaxwell> Was there a reason we didn't change the magic other than it breaking some network-protocol speaking tools?
670 2012-06-22 17:06:44 danbri has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
671 2012-06-22 17:06:57 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: no idea, I wasn't keeping track of that work carefully
672 2012-06-22 17:07:31 <gmaxwell> If we change it now we'll break existing testnet3 nodes until they upgrade.
673 2012-06-22 17:08:37 <luke-jr> is that a problem?
674 2012-06-22 17:09:13 <gavinandresen> Breaking network-protocol-speaking tools and wallet-parsing tools is kind of a big deal.
675 2012-06-22 17:09:48 <gavinandresen> I think it would be better to fix the "I have to wait for a new block if I'm fed a bogus chain" bug
676 2012-06-22 17:09:53 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: for testnet?
677 2012-06-22 17:10:00 <luke-jr> well, that's true too
678 2012-06-22 17:10:17 <luke-jr> especially since it seems more serious than that in my (limited) experience
679 2012-06-22 17:10:20 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: yea.. we should do that too.. although even if thats fixed there is a risk that all 8 outbounds will be broken nodes.
680 2012-06-22 17:10:36 <gmaxwell> (though ... we should fix /that/ too)
681 2012-06-22 17:10:42 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: nodes that feed you a bad genesis block should get DoS banned
682 2012-06-22 17:10:56 <gavinandresen> (well, bad block-after-genesis block)
683 2012-06-22 17:11:02 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: so what if someone runs a testnet1 and testnet3 nodes both?
684 2012-06-22 17:11:49 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: meh. some people might ban you if they do weird things with their peer.dat/addr.dat
685 2012-06-22 17:12:29 <gavinandresen> Having a very long ends-in-a-different-genesis-block chain active on testnet is a good test
686 2012-06-22 17:12:33 <gmaxwell> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1271 IIRC I didn't like his particular changes in this area, but I do think doing something about his is important for 0.7 (even ignoring the testnet needs it badly)
687 2012-06-22 17:13:07 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: if you want to run both keep them on different ports.
688 2012-06-22 17:13:25 <luke-jr> oh, are bans per port? didn't realize
689 2012-06-22 17:13:27 allied has quit (Changing host)
690 2012-06-22 17:13:28 allied has joined
691 2012-06-22 17:13:39 <gmaxwell> hm. Right. I guess thats an issue.
692 2012-06-22 17:13:54 <gmaxwell> My thinking there was that if you were on another port you'd never end up cross connected in the first place.
693 2012-06-22 17:14:05 <gmaxwell> But I guess that isn't true... can't control what other people relay about you.
694 2012-06-22 17:14:20 <jgarzik> huh, stuck node? 06/22/12 17:10:09 version message: version 60001, blocks=182316
695 2012-06-22 17:14:31 Cory has quit ()
696 2012-06-22 17:14:45 toffoo has quit ()
697 2012-06-22 17:15:12 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: checkout seeds.txt, stuck nodes are not that uncommon.
698 2012-06-22 17:15:28 <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/bestblocks.html
699 2012-06-22 17:15:46 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: you use pie charts too darn often.
700 2012-06-22 17:15:49 <luke-jr> it does seem to be a lot better than the last time I checked
701 2012-06-22 17:16:17 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: they work nicely :P
702 2012-06-22 17:16:33 <luke-jr> and easy to recycle the code
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709 2012-06-22 17:27:50 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: this is perhaps a bit more informative: http://people.xiph.org/~greg/bestblocks.png
710 2012-06-22 17:29:46 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: sure
711 2012-06-22 17:29:57 <gmaxwell> Thats the first 16373 hosts in seeds.txt, I threw out the end because they hadn't been connected in a while.
712 2012-06-22 17:30:21 <luke-jr> yes, I only include ones with 15% uptime in at least one of the fields
713 2012-06-22 17:30:22 <gmaxwell> sipa: can you print out .. say.. the unixtime that you made the displayed blockheight reading?
714 2012-06-22 17:31:13 <gmaxwell> (because then I can show the correct delay relative to when they were read, and also exclude old readings more easily)
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723 2012-06-22 17:53:54 <copumpkin> amiller: not really sure how to formalize hash functions, really. gmaxwell has mentioned that a Nat -> Nat bijection works, but it seems to not really capture the real nature you care about
724 2012-06-22 17:55:23 <amiller> copumpkin, what did you think of my suggestion
725 2012-06-22 17:55:39 <amiller> that the implementation has to produce hash collisions for _all_ possible hash functions
726 2012-06-22 17:55:53 <amiller> where the implementation even gets to define its domain
727 2012-06-22 17:57:15 <copumpkin> hmm, I think it flew off my scrollback
728 2012-06-22 17:57:27 <copumpkin> I'm trying to suck roconnor back into this part of IRC
729 2012-06-22 18:00:03 sacredchao has joined
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735 2012-06-22 18:15:44 <rdponticelli> The tor hidden service pull request seems to be working fine here
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743 2012-06-22 18:36:10 <gavinandresen> frickin frackin.... somebody broke using curl to send json-rpc to bitcoind
744 2012-06-22 18:40:26 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gavinandresen opened issue 1504 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1504>
745 2012-06-22 18:40:31 osmosis has joined
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751 2012-06-22 18:46:13 <luke-jr> hmm
752 2012-06-22 18:46:25 <luke-jr> looks like boost's signals stuff doesn't work with Apple's GCC :\
753 2012-06-22 18:46:38 <drizztbsd> apple uses lvm? :P
754 2012-06-22 18:46:39 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: does master build natively?
755 2012-06-22 18:46:41 <drizztbsd> llvm*
756 2012-06-22 18:46:58 <luke-jr> drizztbsd: for bleeding edge only: P
757 2012-06-22 18:47:04 <luke-jr> drizztbsd: 10.5 uses GCC
758 2012-06-22 18:47:12 <drizztbsd> oh ok
759 2012-06-22 18:47:23 <drizztbsd> I only have an iBook (powerpc) :P
760 2012-06-22 18:47:45 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: make -f makefile.osx works nicely on my 10.6 machine
761 2012-06-22 18:47:53 _flow_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
762 2012-06-22 18:47:54 <gavinandresen> ... uses llvm-g++
763 2012-06-22 18:47:58 <drizztbsd> 10.6 uses llvm yes
764 2012-06-22 18:48:11 <drizztbsd> g++ is only a frontend
765 2012-06-22 18:50:34 _flow_ has joined
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767 2012-06-22 18:56:35 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: RE curl... your provided command line works for me
768 2012-06-22 18:57:29 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: http://pastebin.com/g1vTeerv
769 2012-06-22 18:57:31 <gavinandresen> I'm running curl 7.19.7 (universal-apple-darwin10.0)
770 2012-06-22 18:57:44 <jgarzik> curl 7.21.7 (x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) libcurl/7.21.7 NSS/3.13.3.0 zlib/1.2.5 libidn/1.22 libssh2/1.2.7
771 2012-06-22 18:58:18 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: can you turn on curl's protocol dump / debug options and pastebin the results?
772 2012-06-22 18:58:28 <gavinandresen> sure, what are the magic options?
773 2012-06-22 18:58:45 Guest10394 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
774 2012-06-22 18:59:30 <gavinandresen> ah, --trace <file>
775 2012-06-22 19:00:03 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: --verbose is also useful
776 2012-06-22 19:01:06 jurov is now known as jurov|away
777 2012-06-22 19:01:16 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: http://pastebin.com/CeDMXWsM is -verbose and then -trace
778 2012-06-22 19:02:43 Lexa has joined
779 2012-06-22 19:04:17 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: hmmm... nothing is immediately apparent. I presume the server is not crashing, and it is merely the TCP connection that is being closed? I'd run it in a debugger, or add some printk's to trace through ThreadRPCServer3() to see where it burps out
780 2012-06-22 19:04:46 <gavinandresen> yeah, I'll step through ThreadRPCServer3
781 2012-06-22 19:06:40 meLon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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783 2012-06-22 19:08:14 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: An injection of â -> â,â which throws away the seecond output parameter? I don't know what that could help you with, but it captures more of the properties of a hash function.
784 2012-06-22 19:09:39 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: seems to be failing right away reading the input stream in ReadHTTPStatus
785 2012-06-22 19:11:15 <gavinandresen> grr. will have to finish debugging later
786 2012-06-22 19:11:19 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: "failing" == throwing an exception?
787 2012-06-22 19:11:32 <gavinandresen> failing == gets an empty string reading the first line
788 2012-06-22 19:12:00 <gavinandresen> (not getting the POST / HTTP/1.1 line that curl says it is sending)
789 2012-06-22 19:13:10 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: is there a client HTTP / server HTTPS mismatch?
790 2012-06-22 19:13:55 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: maybe the server is expecting SSL? your curl command line is plaintext.
791 2012-06-22 19:19:35 Ukto has quit (Disconnected by services)
792 2012-06-22 19:19:35 Guest42555 has joined
793 2012-06-22 19:24:21 drizztbsd has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
794 2012-06-22 19:26:38 <luke-jr> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTEyMzQ
795 2012-06-22 19:26:39 wizkid057 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
796 2012-06-22 19:26:47 <luke-jr> ^ GPU mining without proprietary blobs?
797 2012-06-22 19:28:03 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: just as gpu mining stops being interestingâ so no one will bother to fix the horrible bugs.
798 2012-06-22 19:28:12 <luke-jr> heh
799 2012-06-22 19:31:18 Guest42555 has quit ()
800 2012-06-22 19:31:25 Guest42555 has joined
801 2012-06-22 19:31:35 <Eliel> well, at the very least, that will be useful for accelerating bitcoind in the future as number of transactions increases :)
802 2012-06-22 19:31:51 Guest42555 is now known as Ukto
803 2012-06-22 19:36:39 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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810 2012-06-22 19:54:22 Karmaon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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818 2012-06-22 20:35:10 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: signature cache didn't help at all
819 2012-06-22 20:35:16 <luke-jr> last block took 35 seconds to process
820 2012-06-22 20:37:53 <gmaxwell> Hm.
821 2012-06-22 20:40:43 <luke-jr> trying a tmpfs now
822 2012-06-22 20:41:43 <sipa> if you have almost all block transactions already as orphans, but the block also contains the missing link, sigcache won't help
823 2012-06-22 20:42:06 <luke-jr> sipa: this is my own block
824 2012-06-22 20:42:26 <sipa> right, nvm
825 2012-06-22 20:42:55 DBordello has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
826 2012-06-22 20:43:49 DBordelo has joined
827 2012-06-22 20:48:23 DBordelo has quit (Client Quit)
828 2012-06-22 20:57:25 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: grarpamp opened issue 1505 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1505>
829 2012-06-22 20:59:06 jurov is now known as away!aktooj@84.245.71.31|jurov
830 2012-06-22 21:02:42 DamascusVG has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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834 2012-06-22 21:19:48 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
835 2012-06-22 21:24:40 Diablo-D3 has joined
836 2012-06-22 21:26:22 Maccer has joined
837 2012-06-22 21:26:53 <jgarzik> SatoshiDice Blockchain MB: 641.5
838 2012-06-22 21:28:04 jurov is now known as jurov|away
839 2012-06-22 21:30:01 <luke-jr> jgarzik: I'm filtering their txns on Eligius and #bitcoin-watc
840 2012-06-22 21:30:03 <luke-jr> jgarzik: I'm filtering their txns on Eligius and #bitcoin-watch
841 2012-06-22 21:35:07 <sipa> jgarzik: how do you filter their transactions exactly?
842 2012-06-22 21:35:22 <sipa> (i'd like to do the same analysis on my pruned txout set)
843 2012-06-22 21:36:36 <gmaxwell> K. my public hidden service node is now at 6hgmaxwellgpv2oe.onion
844 2012-06-22 21:38:03 <luke-jr> sipa: https://gitorious.org/~Luke-Jr/bitcoin/luke-jr-bitcoin/commit/8b0e2b258d017dc169ca26b1fc2b7ef7c7aec51f
845 2012-06-22 21:39:00 <sipa> jgarzik: according to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=80312.40, 409.8 MB
846 2012-06-22 21:39:31 <gmaxwell> sipa: scroll down.
847 2012-06-22 21:39:51 <gmaxwell> Blockchain MB: 641.5 :
848 2012-06-22 21:39:52 <helo> that is pretty horrendous :/
849 2012-06-22 21:40:20 <sipa> gmaxwell: yes, since SD started the blockchain grew 641.5 MB, 409.8 MB is in SD transactions
850 2012-06-22 21:40:25 <sipa> *of which
851 2012-06-22 21:41:29 <gmaxwell> I wonder how much less that would have been if they only used compressed public keys or if they did simple sendmany for txn in the same block.
852 2012-06-22 21:41:30 m00p has joined
853 2012-06-22 21:42:56 minimoose has joined
854 2012-06-22 21:44:24 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: Eligius just found a block: under a second processing time
855 2012-06-22 21:44:39 <sipa> so you count all transactions that have an SD txout, or spend an SD txout?
856 2012-06-22 21:44:39 <luke-jr> only change, putting .bitcoin in tmpfs; seems I/O is the bottleneck
857 2012-06-22 21:44:55 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: ah, might explain why I haven't noticed whatever the heck you're hitting.
858 2012-06-22 21:45:11 <luke-jr> sipa: I rely on rejecting the 1dice output to eliminate anything using it as an input
859 2012-06-22 21:45:16 <gmaxwell> sipa: spend a sd txout. They can't easily control the other side.
860 2012-06-22 21:45:51 <sipa> gmaxwell: oh, only the spendings? ok
861 2012-06-22 21:50:12 <gmaxwell> sipa: well, thats all that could be assumed for "just a software change"
862 2012-06-22 21:50:25 <luke-jr> so what's the sanest way to get around this I/O issue?
863 2012-06-22 21:50:36 <luke-jr> I don't really want to trust tmpfs with everything <.<
864 2012-06-22 21:51:14 <nanotube> ssd?
865 2012-06-22 21:51:53 nameless has quit (!~root@weowntheinter.net|Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
866 2012-06-22 21:52:27 Turingi has quit (Quit: Leaving)
867 2012-06-22 21:52:29 <luke-jr> nanotube: maybe
868 2012-06-22 21:52:29 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: that node doesn't have a wallet right?
869 2012-06-22 21:52:36 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: it does
870 2012-06-22 21:52:40 <gmaxwell> Don't do that.
871 2012-06-22 21:52:56 <luke-jr> it needs it
872 2012-06-22 21:53:01 <luke-jr> it's encrypted
873 2012-06-22 21:53:01 <gmaxwell> I just have a script to copy my nodes into tmpfs at boot.
874 2012-06-22 21:53:54 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: prefill the wallet... don't ever add keys?
875 2012-06-22 21:54:15 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: yeah, what if I forget? :p
876 2012-06-22 21:54:27 <gmaxwell> thus, don't use a wallet in your mining nodes.
877 2012-06-22 21:54:32 <luke-jr> but yeah, not like I have any reason to unlock the wallet
878 2012-06-22 21:55:10 <luke-jr> suppose I can rsync it back to disk regularly
879 2012-06-22 21:55:21 <luke-jr> too bad that's not atomic :/
880 2012-06-22 21:55:41 <gmaxwell> then I mean, if you never unlock it.. then it will never add more keys.
881 2012-06-22 21:57:14 DBordello has joined
882 2012-06-22 21:57:33 <luke-jr> more important to me, at this point, I guess is that this problem isn't just mine
883 2012-06-22 21:57:41 <luke-jr> if I/O is a problem, it's a problem for every node
884 2012-06-22 21:57:50 <gmaxwell> maybe. what is this hardware?
885 2012-06-22 21:58:01 <luke-jr> dunno what the magnetic drive is
886 2012-06-22 21:58:17 <luke-jr> certainly not any worse than standard desktop hardware
887 2012-06-22 21:59:04 <gmaxwell> I mean if its a VPS it could have heavily oversubbed IO... connected across some slow network.
888 2012-06-22 21:59:21 <luke-jr> it's a high-end dedi
889 2012-06-22 21:59:40 <luke-jr> total 8 cores Intel(R) Core⢠i7 CPU 950
890 2012-06-22 21:59:42 <luke-jr> 24 GB RAM
891 2012-06-22 21:59:46 nameless has joined
892 2012-06-22 22:01:18 <gmaxwell> with 24 GB all the reads should be out of cache.
893 2012-06-22 22:01:31 <gmaxwell> maybe the sync writes are taking a while.
894 2012-06-22 22:02:38 <luke-jr> hmm
895 2012-06-22 22:02:38 enquirer has joined
896 2012-06-22 22:04:54 <luke-jr> well, block preview should fix it I guess
897 2012-06-22 22:05:07 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
898 2012-06-22 22:05:40 <rdponticelli> There is any way if adding a node without restarting the client?
899 2012-06-22 22:05:47 <rdponticelli> *of
900 2012-06-22 22:06:01 <luke-jr> rdponticelli: patch welcome <.<
901 2012-06-22 22:06:10 <rdponticelli> ;)
902 2012-06-22 22:06:19 <sipa> what luke-jr said
903 2012-06-22 22:06:23 <rdponticelli> Maybe some day
904 2012-06-22 22:06:29 <rdponticelli> I'm still learning
905 2012-06-22 22:06:32 <rdponticelli> :)
906 2012-06-22 22:06:44 enquirer has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
907 2012-06-22 22:06:46 <rdponticelli> It's for the tor thing
908 2012-06-22 22:07:33 <sipa> From DICE: 1043230 (238189946 unpruned)
909 2012-06-22 22:07:33 <sipa> To DICE: 101945 (195364180 unpruned)
910 2012-06-22 22:07:39 <sipa> in bytes
911 2012-06-22 22:08:06 <sipa> so DICE transactions are indeed quite prunable
912 2012-06-22 22:08:15 <sipa> (more so than others)
913 2012-06-22 22:08:16 <luke-jr> btw new next-test finally: https://bitcointalk.org/?topic=89099
914 2012-06-22 22:10:05 <helo> > 99.5% prunable... nice
915 2012-06-22 22:11:05 <sipa> helo: the entire blockchain, fully "ultrapruned" is 65.5 MB
916 2012-06-22 22:11:38 <helo> that is really impressive... tremendous news
917 2012-06-22 22:11:57 <rdponticelli> gmaxwell: Is your tor node up?
918 2012-06-22 22:12:05 <sipa> helo: note that that is in serialized form; in memory or in a database it would probably be a multiple of that
919 2012-06-22 22:12:35 <gmaxwell> rdponticelli: kind sorta, that node is currently doing a test resyning the chain while in valgrind. So it's probably saturated.
920 2012-06-22 22:12:46 <rdponticelli> Ok
921 2012-06-22 22:13:00 <helo> gmaxwell: you planning to keep that up more or less indefinitely?
922 2012-06-22 22:13:12 <gmaxwell> rdponticelli: it's almost done, I'll mention when it is.
923 2012-06-22 22:13:12 <sipa> rdponticelli: kjy2eqzk4zwi5zd3.onion:8333 is mine
924 2012-06-22 22:13:18 <sipa> and it is up
925 2012-06-22 22:13:27 <gmaxwell> helo: yes. Thats why I bothered generating the onion address with 'gmaxwell' in it.
926 2012-06-22 22:13:41 <sipa> gmaxwell: shallot working now?
927 2012-06-22 22:14:00 <gmaxwell> sipa: yes, â there are multiple git repos, the one on github is less broken.
928 2012-06-22 22:14:16 <rdponticelli> gmaxwell: ok, I'll let the client keep trying
929 2012-06-22 22:14:53 <sipa> gmaxwell: how much CPU power did it take to generate that?
930 2012-06-22 22:15:16 <gmaxwell> Found matching domain after 171107216663 tries: 6hgmaxwellgpv2oe.onion
931 2012-06-22 22:15:57 <sipa> and how many tries/s?
932 2012-06-22 22:16:23 eoss has joined
933 2012-06-22 22:16:23 eoss has quit (Changing host)
934 2012-06-22 22:16:23 eoss has joined
935 2012-06-22 22:16:39 <gmaxwell> it took about 1280 cpu hours on 2.3ghz opteron cores.
936 2012-06-22 22:17:04 <sipa> wow :)
937 2012-06-22 22:17:20 <gmaxwell> You have a shorter name though!
938 2012-06-22 22:17:56 <gmaxwell> takes me like a fraction of a second to get a "sipa" onion. :)
939 2012-06-22 22:17:57 <sipa> so, which repository does work?
940 2012-06-22 22:18:19 <gmaxwell> https://github.com/katmagic/Shallot
941 2012-06-22 22:18:36 <gmaxwell> also apply this fix:
942 2012-06-22 22:18:36 <gmaxwell> - char onion[BASE32_ONIONLEN];
943 2012-06-22 22:18:36 <gmaxwell> + char onion[BASE32_ONIONLEN + 1];
944 2012-06-22 22:18:39 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
945 2012-06-22 22:18:50 <gmaxwell> I don't think it actually matters, but it writes one past the end without it.
946 2012-06-22 22:18:58 spq has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
947 2012-06-22 22:20:19 <sipa> $ ./configure
948 2012-06-22 22:20:19 <sipa> Liunx detected. Have you considered switching to BSD?
949 2012-06-22 22:21:11 <gmaxwell> "No" "bash: no: command not found" ":("
950 2012-06-22 22:21:13 <luke-jr> I have! I decided against it.
951 2012-06-22 22:21:49 <sipa> I have no idea what this "Liunx" is...
952 2012-06-22 22:23:14 <sipa> hmmm "kilsipavsiast4i7.onion
953 2012-06-22 22:25:01 <luke-jr> I suggest trying again.
954 2012-06-22 22:25:28 <sipa> thank god for irssi's copy-paste detection
955 2012-06-22 22:25:36 <sipa> i almost pasted the private key instead of the hostname
956 2012-06-22 22:25:48 <sipa> sipa6eadr7df6jfi.onion
957 2012-06-22 22:26:01 <sipa> anyone want to try connecting?
958 2012-06-22 22:27:29 <rdponticelli> sipa: just another restart...
959 2012-06-22 22:27:31 vigilyn has joined
960 2012-06-22 22:27:34 <rdponticelli> I'll do :)
961 2012-06-22 22:28:19 <luke-jr> does tor support anycast hidden services? <.<
962 2012-06-22 22:29:56 Raziel_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
963 2012-06-22 22:31:47 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: d'oh! Was a ssl / non-ssl mismatch, I forget I'd set rpcssl=1 in the bitcoin.conf
964 2012-06-22 22:32:00 <rdponticelli> sipa: worked
965 2012-06-22 22:32:26 <sipa> rdponticelli: really?
966 2012-06-22 22:32:32 <rdponticelli> Yeap
967 2012-06-22 22:32:40 <sipa> oh, yes, indeed
968 2012-06-22 22:33:02 toffoo has joined
969 2012-06-22 22:34:59 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
970 2012-06-22 22:37:19 skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
971 2012-06-22 22:37:38 skeledrew has joined
972 2012-06-22 22:37:50 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
973 2012-06-22 22:39:04 <return__> tor supports wikileaks mitm your ssl connections
974 2012-06-22 22:39:20 <return__> undocumented feature luke-jr
975 2012-06-22 22:40:06 <return__> id assume as long as you only access onion sites you're fine
976 2012-06-22 22:40:26 <return__> you would assume they wouldn't be that "bad"
977 2012-06-22 22:40:29 <sipa> you can explicitly choose your exit node if you want to
978 2012-06-22 22:41:16 <return__> https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2006-December/003582.html
979 2012-06-22 22:41:35 starsoccer has joined
980 2012-06-22 22:41:39 <return__> now theres something embarassing both to WL and the us govt (because they fund this shit lmao)
981 2012-06-22 22:42:10 <starsoccer> can someone here vouch for sneak?
982 2012-06-22 22:42:12 Karmaon has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9-dev)
983 2012-06-22 22:42:48 Karmaon has joined
984 2012-06-22 22:46:41 t7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
985 2012-06-22 22:50:33 <JFK911> jeffrey sneak?
986 2012-06-22 22:50:40 <sneak> that's me
987 2012-06-22 22:50:45 <sneak> JFK911: who's you?
988 2012-06-22 22:50:51 <JFK911> oh
989 2012-06-22 22:50:57 <JFK911> me vouching for you here won't help anything.
990 2012-06-22 22:52:15 starsoccer has left ()
991 2012-06-22 22:55:20 copumpkin has joined
992 2012-06-22 22:55:48 <gavinandresen> I really want to start using the C++11 'auto' keyword... how long do y'all think we should wait before it's safe to use C++11 features?
993 2012-06-22 22:57:29 <gavinandresen> sipa: sanity testing pull 1174, make test_bitcoin gets me: test/netbase_tests.cpp:37: error: âclass CNetAddrâ has no member named âIsOnionCatâ
994 2012-06-22 22:57:49 skeledrew1 has joined
995 2012-06-22 22:58:19 DaQatz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
996 2012-06-22 22:58:36 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
997 2012-06-22 23:00:39 PK has quit ()
998 2012-06-22 23:05:27 DaQatz has joined
999 2012-06-22 23:09:42 vigilyn has joined
1000 2012-06-22 23:11:03 <sipa> gavinandresen: right, that was renamed
1001 2012-06-22 23:17:29 nameless has quit (!~root@weowntheinter.net|Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1002 2012-06-22 23:17:53 t7 has joined
1003 2012-06-22 23:19:36 Karmaon has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1004 2012-06-22 23:19:50 Ferroh has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1005 2012-06-22 23:34:01 nolybab has joined
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1007 2012-06-22 23:37:33 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: good to hear
1008 2012-06-22 23:39:05 nameless has joined
1009 2012-06-22 23:40:31 <Zarutian> so, the auto keyword is nothing more than a way to allow people to bypass the typing of variables?
1010 2012-06-22 23:40:41 Karmaon has joined
1011 2012-06-22 23:41:52 <sipa> Zarutian: it means "give this variable the same type as the expression it is initialized with"
1012 2012-06-22 23:42:24 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, until gcc 4.5 is included in debian stable
1013 2012-06-22 23:42:25 <phantomcircuit> :)
1014 2012-06-22 23:43:08 <sipa> i think gcc 4.4 suffices for most of C++11's features
1015 2012-06-22 23:43:14 <sipa> and certainly for auto
1016 2012-06-22 23:43:46 <luke-jr> Mac OS X 10.5 is GCC 4.0 based
1017 2012-06-22 23:44:04 <Zarutian> wait I thought gcc only compiled c code? then what is g++ then for?
1018 2012-06-22 23:44:13 <luke-jr> Zarutian: GCC = GNU Compiler Collection
1019 2012-06-22 23:44:17 <luke-jr> Zarutian: G++ is part of GCC
1020 2012-06-22 23:44:27 <sipa> yes, gcc the project, not gcc the filename of a binary
1021 2012-06-22 23:44:42 <Zarutian> oh, I see
1022 2012-06-22 23:46:34 <rdponticelli> Debian testing has 4.6 as default gcc
1023 2012-06-22 23:46:50 <rdponticelli> So, hopefully it will be soon
1024 2012-06-22 23:47:02 <luke-jr> I don't see why Debian is the only OS that matters.
1025 2012-06-22 23:47:13 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1026 2012-06-22 23:48:00 <sipa> Yes, we should wait until BeOS ships with gcc 4.5.
1027 2012-06-22 23:48:12 * Zarutian seconds that!
1028 2012-06-22 23:48:34 <luke-jr> sipa: as long as we want to support OS X 10.5, GCC 4.0 should be supported
1029 2012-06-22 23:49:09 <luke-jr> which it isn't in master now :/
1030 2012-06-22 23:49:18 <sipa> what breaks?
1031 2012-06-22 23:49:26 <sipa> gcc 4.0 is from 2007
1032 2012-06-22 23:49:35 <luke-jr> sipa: boost signals
1033 2012-06-22 23:49:38 <sipa> i don't think it's reasonable to limit ourselves to that
1034 2012-06-22 23:49:58 <luke-jr> GCC 4.0 considers some boost code "ambiguous" -.-
1035 2012-06-22 23:50:06 <luke-jr> even thought it's IMO clearly non-ambiguous
1036 2012-06-22 23:50:21 tstche has quit ()
1037 2012-06-22 23:50:26 <sipa> "opinions" hardly ever matters to a computer program
1038 2012-06-22 23:50:27 <gavinandresen> we don't want to support compiling on OSX 10.5, imho.
1039 2012-06-22 23:50:40 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: do your 10.6 builds work on 10.5?
1040 2012-06-22 23:51:00 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: yes
1041 2012-06-22 23:51:02 <luke-jr> hmm
1042 2012-06-22 23:51:06 t7 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1043 2012-06-22 23:51:10 <Zarutian> sipa: depends if the "opinions" are part of the programs inference dataset or some such ;-)
1044 2012-06-22 23:51:36 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: do we not want to support gitian-compiling to OS X? ;)
1045 2012-06-22 23:51:46 <luke-jr> I don't know how practical building LLVM to cross-compile is..
1046 2012-06-22 23:52:06 <sipa> luke-jr: i assume easier than GCC
1047 2012-06-22 23:52:20 <luke-jr> sipa: has anyone *ever* done it? :/
1048 2012-06-22 23:52:38 <sipa> crosscompiling... sure; crosscompiling linux to osx... no idea
1049 2012-06-22 23:52:57 <luke-jr> I can find results for OSX cross compiling with GCC in Google⦠not so with LLVM :/
1050 2012-06-22 23:52:58 <sipa> don't apple users always and immediately upgrade to the latest and greatest arising from cupertino anyway?
1051 2012-06-22 23:54:10 <Diablo-D3> cult of mac assholes do
1052 2012-06-22 23:54:13 <Diablo-D3> brand new macbook
1053 2012-06-22 23:54:16 <Diablo-D3> OH JEE RETINA TIEM
1054 2012-06-22 23:54:28 <Diablo-D3> thing still has fresh out of the box smell, and its on ebay already
1055 2012-06-22 23:54:41 * Diablo-D3 hates thos fuckers
1056 2012-06-22 23:54:52 <gmaxwell> I don't think apple cares about C++11 in any case, "go team objective-c!"
1057 2012-06-22 23:54:54 <Diablo-D3> maybe if you'd be the cult of chinese democracy, I'd hate you a little less
1058 2012-06-22 23:55:09 <Diablo-D3> apple doesnt need to care about c++11
1059 2012-06-22 23:55:15 <Diablo-D3> clang is getting it as fast as gcc is
1060 2012-06-22 23:56:27 <gmaxwell> I have no clue on C++ code, but it's still pretty laughable on C in a lot of cases. Of course, with QC and Apple hiring up GCC developers and not permitting the to work on GCC who knows.
1061 2012-06-22 23:56:28 <gavinandresen> I tried compiling bitcoin with clang a couple of days ago, didn't work.
1062 2012-06-22 23:56:37 tsche has joined
1063 2012-06-22 23:57:03 <sipa> gavinandresen: wait... you build bitcoin on osx using gcc?
1064 2012-06-22 23:57:24 <gavinandresen> llvm-g++
1065 2012-06-22 23:57:30 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: hm? odd. I've previously compiled bitcoin with clang in order to use the static analysis.
1066 2012-06-22 23:57:51 <sipa> apparently i'm missing something
1067 2012-06-22 23:57:57 <sipa> i though clang was llvm's C frontend
1068 2012-06-22 23:58:22 nolybab has left ()
1069 2012-06-22 23:58:31 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: might be the macports version of clang I was using. Didn't want to go down a rat-hole to figure out why it didn't work....
1070 2012-06-22 23:58:50 <sipa> ah, llvm-g++ is g++ with llvm as backend