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8 2012-07-04 00:24:54 <avengre> lianj: But I take it he doesn't frequent the IRC much?
9 2012-07-04 00:25:27 <avengre> seems like his HTTP notification is a bit..not working
10 2012-07-04 00:26:07 <sipa> i don't think he visits IRC
11 2012-07-04 00:26:38 <avengre> drats
12 2012-07-04 00:27:09 <avengre> I like the idea of using an online wallet... but the lack of response to email is concerning
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17 2012-07-04 00:40:11 <weex> avengre: irc or no, i would still recommend blockchain.info as the best online wallet
18 2012-07-04 00:41:14 <jgarzik> wallet, as in, holding your money for you? Do we know who runs blockchain.info, how secure their wallet setup is, etc.?
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21 2012-07-04 00:43:51 <EnergyVampire> Hello, before I submit a bug report can I bounce something of you guys?
22 2012-07-04 00:46:44 <EnergyVampire> I did a transaction with a fee but the fee wasn't deducted from my wallet (v0.6.2)
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31 2012-07-04 01:03:25 <avengre> I'm not sure, i've not heard of anything terribly bad... always a chance that the guy may run off with the wallets or something, who knows... but rightn ow my balances are small, and will likely either be quickly sold to USD, or stored offline
32 2012-07-04 01:04:06 <avengre> I'm tryin to write a site which will accept BTC, however, i need some kind of notification to fire off the php script to actually credit the user in my database with the funds after so many confirmations... to my knowledge the client (bitcoind) won't do any such thing
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34 2012-07-04 01:06:24 <lianj> if you trust blockexplorer, just ask it ^^
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36 2012-07-04 01:11:56 <BlueMatt> avengre: if you're waiting for a block before crediting (ie waiting for n confirms), you can do it with -blocknotify
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38 2012-07-04 01:18:17 <avengre> blocknotify? is that on the client?
39 2012-07-04 01:20:53 <luke-jr> bitcoind does
40 2012-07-04 01:21:24 <luke-jr> blocknotify=<command>
41 2012-07-04 01:21:30 <BlueMatt> bitcoind/bitcoin-qt will do it
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55 2012-07-04 02:28:38 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: Not? False perhaps?
56 2012-07-04 02:29:40 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: sure, I found not connected to make sense, but...yea false is better
57 2012-07-04 02:31:27 <BlueMatt> (should be "false" not false though)
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60 2012-07-04 02:32:10 <gmaxwell> The hazard there is someone writes some rpc reading code and only sees 'true' .. they might write if connected=="false" as the opposite of true. Alternatively. connected: 0 connected: 1 (or more, enh? if you have more than one?)
61 2012-07-04 02:32:33 <gmaxwell> False is fine
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78 2012-07-04 03:21:56 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: stuff like "Remove duplicate GetHash() in ConnectBlock." should be closer to git HEAD
79 2012-07-04 03:22:01 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: would love to upstream that one now
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83 2012-07-04 03:32:06 <jgarzik> mine, you miners. mine!
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94 2012-07-04 04:18:30 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: jgarzik opened pull request 1554 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1554>
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160 2012-07-04 08:09:46 <cande> about doublespending, Finney attack, how quickly after the attacker has found his block, must he initiate the attack?
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172 2012-07-04 08:49:50 <Keverw> Hi. I'm setting up a VM to install BTC to use TestNet. Can my local PC connect to the RPC on my VM if I know the password, or does RPC only take connections from Localhost?
173 2012-07-04 08:51:58 <Keverw> new to the API, gonna play with Node.js and Bitcoins! I guess I can wait and try. Don't see anything in the docs that would say why it won't work⦠so idk.
174 2012-07-04 08:52:00 <sipa> See the -rpcallowip opion
175 2012-07-04 08:52:04 <sipa> option
176 2012-07-04 08:52:40 <Keverw> oh. okay.
177 2012-07-04 08:53:00 <Keverw> so rpcallowip=10.0.1.* should work
178 2012-07-04 08:53:01 Marf has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
179 2012-07-04 08:53:06 <sipa> indeed
180 2012-07-04 08:53:36 <Keverw> Sweet! Thanks.
181 2012-07-04 08:53:59 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
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183 2012-07-04 08:55:37 <Keverw> I'm worried about fees. hehe. TestNet does fees like normal one right? Want to make sure the fee handling code is good.
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187 2012-07-04 09:03:45 <gmaxwell> Keverw: worried about fees how?
188 2012-07-04 09:04:41 <gmaxwell> Testnet's behavior isn't entirely the same for everything (no isstandard check), but at the moment I don't recall there being a fee difference. Though its 5 am here and I should be asleep.
189 2012-07-04 09:05:11 <Keverw> Like if I'm storing multiple peoples money
190 2012-07-04 09:05:45 <gmaxwell> In any case even in the insane cases were your wallet is full of nothing but tiny inputs so you have to make a maximum size transaction the highest an anti-dos (mandatory) fee can be is 0.05 BTC, and getting to that requires your client to create a 100KB transaction.
191 2012-07-04 09:05:50 <Keverw> like need to make sure they withdraw too much(like someone told me the RPC do not ask about fees like the client, it just sends them)
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193 2012-07-04 09:07:11 <gmaxwell> Keverw: right the rpc will just apply the mandatory fees (0.0005 BTC/kb) where required (when the inputs don't have enough priority to qualify as a free txn or when you have an output less than 0.01 BTC).
194 2012-07-04 09:07:41 <Keverw> hmm
195 2012-07-04 09:08:19 <Keverw> What if I use the accounts feature?
196 2012-07-04 09:08:42 <Keverw> Where does the fees come from? The main one, or the account and if there is no funds in that users account, give an error?
197 2012-07-04 09:08:46 <gmaxwell> Later you regred using the accounts feature. :)
198 2012-07-04 09:09:36 setkeh has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
199 2012-07-04 09:09:42 <gmaxwell> (in particular the accounts stuff is wonky with respect to fees, and its defiantly too late for me to try to remember. This is stuff you can test on testnet.)
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202 2012-07-04 09:09:53 <gmaxwell> (or with testnet in a box)
203 2012-07-04 09:10:04 <Keverw> Just trying to figure out how to write my own little EWallet type service. I'm a noob at this :( but my product requires it.
204 2012-07-04 09:10:27 <sipa> quite sure fees are taken from the source account
205 2012-07-04 09:11:17 <Keverw> like the account I put first in the sendfrom command?
206 2012-07-04 09:11:23 <sipa> yes
207 2012-07-04 09:11:26 <Keverw> and if that account can't afford it, error?
208 2012-07-04 09:11:35 <sipa> no, it'll just go negative iirc
209 2012-07-04 09:12:02 <Keverw> â¦.. That's bad?
210 2012-07-04 09:12:06 <Keverw> You can have negative btw?
211 2012-07-04 09:12:15 <sipa> account balances can be negative
212 2012-07-04 09:12:23 <sipa> the total wallet balance obviously can't
213 2012-07-04 09:12:42 <Keverw> oh⦠so it takes the rest of the money from some other account on it?
214 2012-07-04 09:13:00 <sipa> accounts have *nothing* to do with input coin selection
215 2012-07-04 09:13:09 <Keverw> Just want to prevent overspending I guess.
216 2012-07-04 09:13:12 <gmaxwell> sipa> quite sure fees are taken from the source account < yes but IIRC fees can draw it negative.
217 2012-07-04 09:13:18 <sipa> indeed
218 2012-07-04 09:13:33 <sipa> the wallet is just one pile of coins, and they are always considered for every transaction
219 2012-07-04 09:13:44 <sipa> and account balances are just virtual counters
220 2012-07-04 09:13:58 <gmaxwell> Like 'categories' in a checkbook.
221 2012-07-04 09:14:01 <Keverw> yeahâ¦. Can't each user get their own wallet somehow?
222 2012-07-04 09:14:16 <Keverw> or would that require writing my own client instead of RPC?
223 2012-07-04 09:14:25 <gmaxwell> not with the current software, it's not entirely desirable thoughâ because then you couldn't do transactionless moves.
224 2012-07-04 09:14:36 <gmaxwell> And you'd also spend more on fees.
225 2012-07-04 09:14:49 <gmaxwell> (because each wallet would be constrained in its coin selection)
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227 2012-07-04 09:15:20 <Keverw> oh⦠hmm. I guess I could write my own code to figure out what the fee is going to be, and then account for it?
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229 2012-07-04 09:15:37 <Keverw> or is there a fee calc in the RPC?
230 2012-07-04 09:15:45 <gmaxwell> No. Unfortunately, for part of the same reason the RPC doesn't prompt you.
231 2012-07-04 09:15:58 <gmaxwell> The fee isn't "determinstic", at least not as far as you're concerned.
232 2012-07-04 09:16:18 <Keverw> oh⦠Hmm.
233 2012-07-04 09:16:22 <gmaxwell> It depends on the state of all the transactions in the wallet, on the blockchain, and on the specific selected inputs which are randomized when the txn is created.
234 2012-07-04 09:16:37 <Keverw> I know the litecoin wallet will fail to send the money if you can't cover it fee wise.
235 2012-07-04 09:16:56 <Keverw> and It uses the same API as Bitcoin I was told when chatting with the owner.
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237 2012-07-04 09:17:17 <Keverw> it doesn't tell you how much the fee was, but just fails to send. if you lower it, it sends.
238 2012-07-04 09:17:23 <gmaxwell> If the wallet is empty then sure. It's not possible to create a transaction that would make you negative.
239 2012-07-04 09:17:40 <gmaxwell> but that doesn't apply to accounts, only the whole wallet.
240 2012-07-04 09:18:04 <Keverw> hmm⦠Is it normal to be kinda confused when it comes to this?
241 2012-07-04 09:18:28 <gmaxwell> For most wallet usage patterns the fee is almost always 0. In cases where it's not zero its almost always 0.0005. Most bitcoin businesses just always charge their users a fixed transaction fee (and make a small profit on it), or don't charge one and just eat it as a cost of doing business.
242 2012-07-04 09:18:55 <gmaxwell> Keverw: people either ignore it, or they drive themselves crazy over it. There seems to be no middle ground. :)
243 2012-07-04 09:20:18 <Keverw> Yeah⦠I guess I'm sorta driving my self crazing thinking about it before really messing with the API
244 2012-07-04 09:21:50 <gmaxwell> I think the uncertanty bothers people far out of proportion to the actual issue. This has been a major factor in how I think about the fee setup changing in the future. Whatever we do it'll be important to make people feel well informed and in control (er, even if its mostly the same as today) so they don't burn a lot of effort worrying about it. :)
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246 2012-07-04 09:23:51 <Keverw> Yeah. I'm not sure if i should use the account feature or just keep track of it in my own database.
247 2012-07-04 09:24:53 <Keverw> I was just thinking the built in account feature would be better.
248 2012-07-04 09:25:41 <gmaxwell> yea, I don't know what to advise. The account feature was _made_ for your kind of usage. ... but it's got a lot of sharp edges. I do recommend that whatever you do you also track everything on your own and keep lots of logs... so if something goes wrong you can pick up the pieces.
249 2012-07-04 09:26:44 <Keverw> yeah
250 2012-07-04 09:27:30 <Keverw> I wish the RPC had better fees tho. I know like one site won't allow less then 1 BTC to be sent because of it.
251 2012-07-04 09:27:43 <Keverw> Are there any work on improving it?
252 2012-07-04 09:27:48 <gmaxwell> That seems ... a bit dishonest.
253 2012-07-04 09:27:59 <Keverw> instawallet
254 2012-07-04 09:28:10 <Keverw> let me check the FAQ.
255 2012-07-04 09:28:17 <gmaxwell> 0.01 would make a lot of sense.
256 2012-07-04 09:28:23 <Keverw> oh⦠lower than 0.01
257 2012-07-04 09:28:25 <gmaxwell> 1 BTC would make no sense at all.
258 2012-07-04 09:28:26 <Keverw> I got it wrong.
259 2012-07-04 09:28:28 <gmaxwell> Right. okay!
260 2012-07-04 09:28:44 <Keverw> I can do the same on my service maybe?
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262 2012-07-04 09:29:16 <gmaxwell> any txn under 0.01 always needs a fee. (to discourage people from sending thousands of 1e-8 bitcoin payments to everyone and clogging their wallets)
263 2012-07-04 09:29:56 <gmaxwell> You should though that doesn't guarantee no fees, though thats the only case where you'll always get them.
264 2012-07-04 09:30:34 <Keverw> even 0.02 needs a fee.
265 2012-07-04 09:30:47 <Keverw> or so it says in the gui
266 2012-07-04 09:30:47 <sipa> not necessarily
267 2012-07-04 09:30:49 <MC1984> why arent the pools asspained about SD just up thier fees
268 2012-07-04 09:31:03 <gmaxwell> Keverw: No, it depends on priority.
269 2012-07-04 09:31:55 <Keverw> ?
270 2012-07-04 09:32:03 <gmaxwell> Keverw: if there is an output less than 0.01 then a fee of 0.0005btc/kb is needed always. Otherwise the priority is measured, and if less than a threshold you need 0.0005btc/kb. Otherwise it's free.
271 2012-07-04 09:32:23 <sipa> s/free/voluntary/
272 2012-07-04 09:32:30 <gmaxwell> sipa: thanks, yes.
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274 2012-07-04 09:33:02 <Keverw> oh⦠So I could really always charge 0.0005 just in case? and maybe make a little profit. like X.X% withdraw fee
275 2012-07-04 09:33:30 <gmaxwell> The priority depends on the coins you are spending. sum(value * confirmations) / data_size = priority. The threshold is so that 1 BTC which was last sent a day ago, as a single input result in a regular size txn being free.
276 2012-07-04 09:34:17 <gmaxwell> Keverw: yes. sometimes it could be greater than 0.0005 though thats vanishingly rare, and I would expect anyone charging 0.0005 to make a tiny profit on it.
277 2012-07-04 09:35:06 <gmaxwell> Bitparking (a namecoin / bitcoin exchange) charages 0.01 BTC per withdraw.
278 2012-07-04 09:35:39 <Keverw> after I send, does the results tell you if there was a fee?
279 2012-07-04 09:35:59 <sipa> you can see the used fee with gettransaction
280 2012-07-04 09:36:00 <Keverw> so then I can take that 0.01 - fee = ???, then add that to my own account
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282 2012-07-04 09:36:19 <gmaxwell> the absolute maximum the mandatory fees can be is 0.05 BTC. ... though this requires the txn have 100 kb of data, which is only generally possible if for example you've been getting lots of 0.01 btc payments and nothing else then send 10 BTC out of them.
283 2012-07-04 09:36:29 <gmaxwell> Keverw: yes you can use the move command to do that.
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285 2012-07-04 09:37:06 <Keverw> hmm. I think we are getting somewhere now :)
286 2012-07-04 09:37:24 <gmaxwell> realistically, for most businesses if you're doing enough traffic that fees could even possibly be a concern.. thats a great problem to have. :)
287 2012-07-04 09:37:56 <Keverw> so the send from sends a tx id, not a json object
288 2012-07-04 09:38:06 <Keverw> so I guess I could look that up, and see if a fee was paid?
289 2012-07-04 09:38:27 <gmaxwell> and if your business model has room, I advise just eating the fees and not bothering users.. or if you don't have anywhere to make up for it, just stick on a mandatory withdraw fee.
290 2012-07-04 09:38:35 <gmaxwell> Keverw: yes you can gettransaction on that txid.
291 2012-07-04 09:39:09 <Keverw> oh okay. Does it return if a fee was paid?
292 2012-07-04 09:39:30 <sipa> it just tells you the amount of fee used
293 2012-07-04 09:39:31 <Keverw> I don't think so⦠but I think it's get stored⦠or in the gui version
294 2012-07-04 09:39:32 <sipa> which can be 0
295 2012-07-04 09:39:49 <Keverw> yeah. maybe the Wiki doesn't list all the returned stuff?
296 2012-07-04 09:39:56 <sipa> wiki?
297 2012-07-04 09:39:59 <Keverw> I guess I have to just console.log
298 2012-07-04 09:40:05 <Keverw> Looking the the bitcoin.it site
299 2012-07-04 09:40:11 <sipa> yes yes, but which page?
300 2012-07-04 09:40:35 <gmaxwell> Keverw: it tells you the fee.
301 2012-07-04 09:40:47 <sipa> but gettransaction will give you a JSON object with among others a field "fee", and the amount of fee used in that transaction
302 2012-07-04 09:40:53 <gmaxwell> "fee" : -0.01000000,
303 2012-07-04 09:41:31 <Keverw> Let me get you the url. I'm viewing the web on my PC next me me, while using IRC o nmy Mac
304 2012-07-04 09:41:36 <gmaxwell> watch out with the wiki, there is a lot of out of date stuff on it.
305 2012-07-04 09:41:47 <gmaxwell> although I can't remember it not having the fee.
306 2012-07-04 09:41:53 <sipa> neither can i
307 2012-07-04 09:41:57 keverw has joined
308 2012-07-04 09:42:00 <keverw> laptop!~keverw92@cpe-69-135-194-29.woh.res.rr.com|https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Original_Bitcoin_client/API_Calls_list
309 2012-07-04 09:42:06 <gmaxwell> IIRC listtrasnaction doesn't show the field when it's zero.
310 2012-07-04 09:42:13 <keverw> laptop!~keverw92@cpe-69-135-194-29.woh.res.rr.com|gettransaction?
311 2012-07-04 09:42:23 <keverw> laptop!~keverw92@cpe-69-135-194-29.woh.res.rr.com|That's the one I'm looking at.
312 2012-07-04 09:42:41 <gmaxwell> Keverw: thats just woefully incomplete.
313 2012-07-04 09:42:41 <sipa> it seems incomplete
314 2012-07-04 09:42:52 <Keverw> or is that older?
315 2012-07-04 09:43:12 <Keverw> I guess I'll just have to play some, and console.log stuff
316 2012-07-04 09:43:22 <sipa> i believe fee has been there as long as gettransaction exist
317 2012-07-04 09:43:35 <sipa> you don't need to look at the console, just use gettransaction!
318 2012-07-04 09:43:40 <Keverw> but my VM software is down updating. So I'm gonna install a few VMs to test in. Different wallets.
319 2012-07-04 09:44:10 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
320 2012-07-04 09:44:13 <Keverw> oh⦠I'm talking about using Node.js, forgot you can also run the commands from cmd
321 2012-07-04 09:44:44 <gmaxwell> Keverw: e.g. http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1690498
322 2012-07-04 09:44:44 mmoya has joined
323 2012-07-04 09:45:21 <Keverw> Sweet. Someone should update the Wiki :)
324 2012-07-04 09:45:43 <gmaxwell> it's a wiki, that someone could be you!
325 2012-07-04 09:45:52 <gmaxwell> (it has open editing, you just need to create an account)
326 2012-07-04 09:46:18 <gmaxwell> you're better than me to update it, I already know how all that works. :) you'll find all the dumb spots.
327 2012-07-04 09:46:42 <Keverw> Yeah⦠I guess I can.
328 2012-07-04 09:46:57 <Keverw> I'm just learning the API working on a project with a business partner.
329 2012-07-04 09:47:10 <Keverw> but later in the future, I do want to work on something like Paypal.
330 2012-07-04 09:47:27 <Keverw> but don't feel like it's a good idea yet. Need to learn more.
331 2012-07-04 09:50:19 talso has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
332 2012-07-04 09:50:34 <Keverw> done. Added fee :)
333 2012-07-04 09:51:34 leotreasure has quit (Quit: leotreasure)
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338 2012-07-04 10:06:03 <doublec> gmaxwell: it was reduced to 0.001 recently
339 2012-07-04 10:06:22 Lolcust has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
340 2012-07-04 10:06:23 <doublec> gmaxwell: about a week ago
341 2012-07-04 10:06:39 Lolcust has joined
342 2012-07-04 10:06:50 <sipa> what is reduced to 0.001?
343 2012-07-04 10:07:20 <doublec> sipa: the fee for the namecoin exchange that gmaxwell commented on
344 2012-07-04 10:07:46 <doublec> (fee for withdrawals)
345 2012-07-04 10:11:01 <sipa> ah
346 2012-07-04 10:12:52 datagutt has joined
347 2012-07-04 10:15:50 <Keverw> I wonder how large test net block chain is...
348 2012-07-04 10:20:09 <genjix> sipa: is this bip 32?https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/tree/hdw
349 2012-07-04 10:20:09 <ersi> not that large really
350 2012-07-04 10:20:13 <ersi> Keverw: ^
351 2012-07-04 10:20:46 <Keverw> oh. That's good.
352 2012-07-04 10:21:21 <Keverw> I wonder if i could mine some with my crappy Nvidia GeForce 9300M GS 512
353 2012-07-04 10:22:02 <Keverw> once I get one wallet set up in my VM. Can I just copy the VM? Start it, delete the wallet.dat and then start bit coin in the new VM to have a separate wallet?
354 2012-07-04 10:22:11 <Keverw> No need to redownload the chain.
355 2012-07-04 10:23:58 <genjix> sipa: i assume that if your gap limit with type2 keys is Z then with hd keys, you must monitor i branches to a depth of Z
356 2012-07-04 10:25:19 <SomeoneWeird> yes Keverw
357 2012-07-04 10:26:03 <Keverw> oh. okay good!
358 2012-07-04 10:26:11 <genjix> sipa: sum^Z{i_z}
359 2012-07-04 10:28:56 <sipa> genjix: that's part of bip32 yes, but i'm working on other things now
360 2012-07-04 10:29:08 <genjix> ok thx
361 2012-07-04 10:29:24 <sipa> genjix: and bip32 specifies wallet/account/chain/key
362 2012-07-04 10:29:36 <sipa> you can have different gap limits for each
363 2012-07-04 10:30:06 <sipa> for example, inner chains don't need a gap at all
364 2012-07-04 10:30:50 <sipa> and you could watch for let's say 4 accounts, each watch both subchains, the inner one with limit 1 and the outer one with limit 20
365 2012-07-04 10:31:25 <genjix> i see
366 2012-07-04 10:33:18 Prattler has joined
367 2012-07-04 10:33:52 <sipa> wait... that branch doesn't have key derivation code? i'm sure i already implemented that
368 2012-07-04 10:34:57 <genjix> it would be nice if clients standardised on a key derivation
369 2012-07-04 10:35:04 <genjix> so that's why i was looking at this
370 2012-07-04 10:35:05 <sipa> genjix: my detwallet branch contains more
371 2012-07-04 10:35:09 <genjix> ok
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404 2012-07-04 12:29:35 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: yea...but you aren't really gonna get good performance on master anyway, I was just like "we've got this thing threaded...lets see how fast we can make it go"
405 2012-07-04 12:29:46 BurtyB has joined
406 2012-07-04 12:30:26 <doublec> sipa: ping
407 2012-07-04 12:30:32 <sipa> yes?
408 2012-07-04 12:30:57 <doublec> sipa: I'm seeing high cpu usage in a bitcoind in some circumstances due to looping in addrmain.cpp, line 418-ish
409 2012-07-04 12:31:00 Marf2 has joined
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411 2012-07-04 12:31:16 <doublec> sipa: there's an infinite while loop there, with a test that does a 'continue'
412 2012-07-04 12:31:21 <doublec> sipa: and it gets stuck in that
413 2012-07-04 12:31:27 <doublec> sipa: does that sound familiar?
414 2012-07-04 12:31:38 <sipa> addrmain.cpp ?
415 2012-07-04 12:31:44 <doublec> addrman.cpp
416 2012-07-04 12:31:45 Marf has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
417 2012-07-04 12:32:06 <sipa> doublec: is your address database near-empty?
418 2012-07-04 12:32:21 <doublec> sipa: it contains one address
419 2012-07-04 12:32:27 <doublec> it's a 'network in a box'
420 2012-07-04 12:32:31 <doublec> with only two nodes
421 2012-07-04 12:32:50 <doublec> that I'm using for testing mining pool software
422 2012-07-04 12:32:57 <sipa> right
423 2012-07-04 12:33:08 <sipa> it should probably deal better with very small address databases
424 2012-07-04 12:33:17 <doublec> ok, just checking that it's known
425 2012-07-04 12:33:19 <doublec> thanks
426 2012-07-04 12:33:22 <sipa> like sleeping if nothing is found after N iterations
427 2012-07-04 12:33:57 Marf2 has quit (Client Quit)
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429 2012-07-04 12:44:55 <Keverw> hmm. If i had a PHP script that uses Paypal's IPN. I would how hard it would be to convert it to use BTC.
430 2012-07-04 12:47:26 * BlueMatt still thinks someone should make a bitpal.com or something that has an api 100% identical to paypal's and happens to support bitcoin alongside others
431 2012-07-04 12:48:18 <Eliel_> Keverw: easiest route would probably be either bit-pay or paysius. Their APIs should be quite close to what paypal has. (Said without actually knowing what Paypal's API looks like)
432 2012-07-04 12:48:47 <Keverw> yeah⦠I was just wondering.
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445 2012-07-04 13:23:03 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: what do i have to do to actually use those shallot genn'ed keys?
446 2012-07-04 13:23:15 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: i replaced the contents of hostname and private_key but it looks like tor overwrote on start
447 2012-07-04 13:23:26 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: did i miss something?
448 2012-07-04 13:26:32 <sipa> it shouldn't overwrite them
449 2012-07-04 13:27:16 <jrmithdobbs> errr, it's not changing the private_key but the onion address is not what shallot reported on generation
450 2012-07-04 13:27:24 <jrmithdobbs> (just noticed the rsa key wasn't changing)
451 2012-07-04 13:29:14 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: your seed having issues serving aaaa right now?
452 2012-07-04 13:29:16 <jrmithdobbs> getting timeouts
453 2012-07-04 13:30:33 <sipa> ooh, it seems to have died :(
454 2012-07-04 13:30:35 <jrmithdobbs> oh nm, it's my resolver
455 2012-07-04 13:30:43 <jrmithdobbs> oh weird my resolver was dead too
456 2012-07-04 13:30:49 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: getting timeouts here too
457 2012-07-04 13:30:50 <jrmithdobbs> 99.99% sure i applied that bind patch ;p
458 2012-07-04 13:31:05 RainbowDashh has joined
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460 2012-07-04 13:31:15 <sipa> bah, and my data file corrupted
461 2012-07-04 13:31:21 <sipa> i should fix that bug
462 2012-07-04 13:31:52 <jrmithdobbs> bleh, i need to finish migrating my shit off bind
463 2012-07-04 13:32:05 <jrmithdobbs> the recent 9 versions have just been annoying as fuck
464 2012-07-04 13:32:52 <jrmithdobbs> anyways
465 2012-07-04 13:33:24 Hasbro has joined
466 2012-07-04 13:33:32 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: so, i haven't re-read but the code still wont advert rfc1918 ipv4 addresses right? so i can safely have the tor hidden service redirect to an rfc1918 address and use an existing listening socket instead of having to listen on 127.0.0.1 right?
467 2012-07-04 13:33:47 <jrmithdobbs> s/code/code, but it/
468 2012-07-04 13:34:21 <sipa> it wont advertize rfc1918 addresses no
469 2012-07-04 13:34:31 <sipa> i dont understand thr rest of what you asked
470 2012-07-04 13:35:13 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: i didn't want adding a -bind=10.x.x.x with tor configured to forward the hidden service 8333 -> 10.x.x.x:8333 without it advertising 10.x.x.x is all i mean
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474 2012-07-04 13:46:19 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: -bind only binds, it does not affect which address is advertized
475 2012-07-04 13:47:13 <sipa> use -externalip to set what is advertized
476 2012-07-04 13:47:36 <jrmithdobbs> i'm rebuilding for boost re-linkage atm
477 2012-07-04 13:48:31 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: do you have any idea how gmaxwell got private keys from that shallot generator bruteforce thing to actually use the address they said? the key works but it picks a different .onion for it than it said it had generated ;p
478 2012-07-04 13:49:14 <jrmithdobbs> also, gj whoever is getting rid of all those compile warnings ;p
479 2012-07-04 13:50:22 rdponticelli_ has joined
480 2012-07-04 13:50:31 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: iirc, there's a bug in shallot where it sometimes produces bogus addresses
481 2012-07-04 13:50:52 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
482 2012-07-04 13:51:06 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: bah, that means i accidentally threw away the valid one instead of the invalid one for that pattern, ha
483 2012-07-04 13:56:54 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: can you connect to deezs52qlm2tdbtc.onion ?
484 2012-07-04 13:57:57 <jrmithdobbs> waiting for my os x build to finish so i can test from here, heh
485 2012-07-04 13:59:29 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: trying
486 2012-07-04 13:59:50 <jrmithdobbs> bitcoind compile is now almost 100% warning free on 32bit debian at least, one signed compare warning that doesn't matter left ;p (bitcoin-qt not so much)
487 2012-07-04 14:00:37 <sipa> receive version message: version 60001, blocks=187503, us=0.0.0.0:0, them=deezs52qlm2tdbtc.onion:8333, peer=deezs52qlm2tdbtc.onion:8333
488 2012-07-04 14:00:49 <jrmithdobbs> nice
489 2012-07-04 14:01:03 <sipa> i'm syncing up over tor from you now
490 2012-07-04 14:01:17 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: that box is now on all 3 p2p nets ;p (v4, v6, and tor)
491 2012-07-04 14:01:30 <sipa> nice
492 2012-07-04 14:01:41 <sipa> so is the one running on vps.sipa.be
493 2012-07-04 14:01:42 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: odd, aside from warnings like "src/net.h:374: warning: invalid access to non-static data member ÂCMessageHeader::nMessageSize of NULL object" 2 warnings in qt/guituil.cpp and some in boost, I dont have any other warnings
494 2012-07-04 14:01:50 <BlueMatt> what else do you have?
495 2012-07-04 14:03:14 <BlueMatt> I get a log of stuff like https://svn.boost.org/trac/boost/ticket/6652
496 2012-07-04 14:03:55 <jrmithdobbs> bitcoinbulletin: i get all sorts on os x
497 2012-07-04 14:03:59 <jrmithdobbs> erm
498 2012-07-04 14:04:01 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: ^
499 2012-07-04 14:04:05 <BlueMatt> can you file bugs for them?
500 2012-07-04 14:04:32 jimbit has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
501 2012-07-04 14:04:34 <jrmithdobbs> I don't think any of them actually matter, but ya next time i build i'll keep the log
502 2012-07-04 14:04:52 <BlueMatt> well its nice to get rid of them, even though 99% of them dont matter
503 2012-07-04 14:05:05 paul0 has joined
504 2012-07-04 14:05:26 <jrmithdobbs> ya, the bitcoind ones went from ~4-5 in a few files to 1 left over the last couple days, always nice to see clean build output
505 2012-07-04 14:05:56 <BlueMatt> probably mostly https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1548
506 2012-07-04 14:07:22 <jrmithdobbs> yes mostly, something in main.h too
507 2012-07-04 14:08:14 tucenaber has joined
508 2012-07-04 14:08:15 <jrmithdobbs> ../bitcoin/src/net.h:374: warning: invalid access to non-static data member 'CMessageHeader::nMessageSize' of NULL object
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510 2012-07-04 14:08:36 <BlueMatt> yea, thats the only one I see thats left
511 2012-07-04 14:09:09 <jrmithdobbs> also on 380 and 381 with nCheckSum same thing
512 2012-07-04 14:09:27 <BlueMatt> yep
513 2012-07-04 14:09:48 <jrmithdobbs> ya actually after the last pull i did that's it
514 2012-07-04 14:10:08 <BlueMatt> nice
515 2012-07-04 14:10:12 <jrmithdobbs> nice work
516 2012-07-04 14:10:27 <jrmithdobbs> and that's not even using the official build method, that's just opening the .pro file in qt creator ;p
517 2012-07-04 14:10:37 <jrmithdobbs> and building via default release settings
518 2012-07-04 14:11:18 <jrmithdobbs> (my build/macports env is already pointed at the right places for all the deps)
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520 2012-07-04 14:12:59 <BlueMatt> heh, I love british parliamentary testimonies, so much more direct, essentially: "should you be in jail right now?"
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527 2012-07-04 14:25:14 <jrmithdobbs> usr/local/bin/bitcoind -datadir=/home/bitcoin -printtoconsole -maxconnections=512 -tor=127.0.0.1:9050 -bind=10.xx.xx.yy -bind=69.41.162.72 -bind=127.0.0.1 -bind=[2001:470:1f0f:9a2::1] -externalip=69.41.162.72 -externalip=[2001:470:1f0f:9a2::1] -externalip=deezs52qlm2tdbtc.onion -addnode=6hgmaxwellgpv2oe.onion -addnode=kjy2eqzk4zwi5zd3.onion -addnode=[2001:888:10:bbb::2]
528 2012-07-04 14:25:55 <jrmithdobbs> (that last addnode is a host -t aaaa to make sure i get at least one ipv6 peer off the bat, don't know that it's necessary any more)
529 2012-07-04 14:27:24 <jrmithdobbs> that doesn't look to be actually listing either of the onion peers in getpeerinfo ?
530 2012-07-04 14:28:41 <sipa> it should show outgoing onion connections
531 2012-07-04 14:28:49 <sipa> (if there are any)
532 2012-07-04 14:29:15 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: that second one is your node right?
533 2012-07-04 14:29:24 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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535 2012-07-04 14:30:00 <BlueMatt> how does -onlynet=tor bootstrap?
536 2012-07-04 14:30:10 <sipa> it doesn't :)
537 2012-07-04 14:30:57 gavinandresen has joined
538 2012-07-04 14:31:00 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: kjy2... yes
539 2012-07-04 14:31:43 <jrmithdobbs> 2012-07-04_14:26:30.04942 SOCKS5 connecting kjy2eqzk4zwi5zd3.onion
540 2012-07-04 14:31:44 <BlueMatt> sipa: can we put the tor-formatted ipv6's in dnsseeds?
541 2012-07-04 14:31:45 <jrmithdobbs> 2012-07-04_14:26:30.04946 ERROR: Proxy error: general failure
542 2012-07-04 14:31:47 <jrmithdobbs> hmmmm
543 2012-07-04 14:32:19 <jrmithdobbs> debian just pushed a torrc update, let me see if they set a random password on the proxy or some shit
544 2012-07-04 14:32:38 <sipa> BlueMatt: yes, but not very useful, as people behind tor shouldn't be doing DNS lookups
545 2012-07-04 14:32:58 <sipa> (and you cannot do DNS lookups through tor)
546 2012-07-04 14:33:06 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
547 2012-07-04 14:33:07 <jrmithdobbs> you kind of can
548 2012-07-04 14:33:09 <BlueMatt> mmm, I thought there was some extension to do that...
549 2012-07-04 14:33:13 <BlueMatt> guess we dont use it though
550 2012-07-04 14:33:36 <sipa> you can ask an exit node to resolve an address for you, but that's not a lookup (you don't get to see the result yourself, you just get connected to it)
551 2012-07-04 14:34:01 <BlueMatt> yea...
552 2012-07-04 14:34:09 <sipa> and you can implement a DNS client yourself, and connect to an open TCP-capable DNS recursive server via an exit node
553 2012-07-04 14:34:42 <sipa> but both are hacky and suboptimal
554 2012-07-04 14:34:45 <BlueMatt> yuck...I though I remembered someone saying there was some special tor-specific proxy command thinggy...
555 2012-07-04 14:34:49 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: well, we could make it workable with dnscurve actually, since the seed would be encrypted data channel all the way to client
556 2012-07-04 14:34:50 <BlueMatt> nevermind
557 2012-07-04 14:34:55 <jrmithdobbs> but that's a lot of code for not a lot of benefit
558 2012-07-04 14:34:58 <sipa> meh
559 2012-07-04 14:35:02 <jrmithdobbs> (on dns over ssl)
560 2012-07-04 14:35:05 <jrmithdobbs> s/on/or/
561 2012-07-04 14:35:23 <sipa> i'd just wait until some stable set of onion nodes is up, and then add some as hardcoded seeds
562 2012-07-04 14:35:44 <BlueMatt> yea
563 2012-07-04 14:35:53 <sipa> and make oneshot connections to them
564 2012-07-04 14:36:01 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: or we could setup some tor directory servers that hand out the seeds
565 2012-07-04 14:36:12 <sipa> what's the difference?
566 2012-07-04 14:36:36 <jrmithdobbs> not much, just thinking out loud because hard coded seeds seems like a poor solution ;p
567 2012-07-04 14:36:55 <sipa> well, otherwise the directory server is hardcoded, no?
568 2012-07-04 14:37:38 <jrmithdobbs> ya but in the same way tors are, tbqh we may even be able to work something out with the tor project folk that run the directory servers once the code's mature
569 2012-07-04 14:38:21 pickett has joined
570 2012-07-04 14:38:23 <jrmithdobbs> seems that being able to bootstrap an overlaid network is something they'd be interested in helping with
571 2012-07-04 14:38:51 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
572 2012-07-04 14:39:11 <jrmithdobbs> anyone asked any of them how they think would work well overlaid on tor? heh
573 2012-07-04 14:40:15 <sipa> well, if someone runs a tor-only server with stable uptime and such, and you add the address hardcoded to the client, and the client just connects to it, requests a getaddr, waits for an addr response, and disconnects... more or less the same thing
574 2012-07-04 14:40:25 <sipa> (which is what oneshot does)
575 2012-07-04 14:41:31 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: but that's no better than doing the dns query over tor
576 2012-07-04 14:41:55 <jrmithdobbs> is it?
577 2012-07-04 14:42:06 <sipa> this way it never leaves the onion network
578 2012-07-04 14:42:29 <jrmithdobbs> so router before can't read the plaintext because no exit
579 2012-07-04 14:42:43 <jrmithdobbs> why not setup a dnssed with an onion address then?
580 2012-07-04 14:43:07 <sipa> that'd require a dns client implementation in bitcoin
581 2012-07-04 14:43:08 <jrmithdobbs> that way seed can still do connectability testing
582 2012-07-04 14:43:30 <sipa> i'd rather add minimal bitcoin p2p protocol ability in the dns seed
583 2012-07-04 14:43:47 <sipa> (no relaying of anything, only version/verack getaddr/addr supported)
584 2012-07-04 14:44:41 RainbowDashh has joined
585 2012-07-04 14:44:42 <jrmithdobbs> that sounds like a good solution, actually, over tor it's even authenticated in a way that isn't true of a direct tcp connection
586 2012-07-04 14:45:06 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: its somewhat ugly, but if does fix the warnings: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1555
587 2012-07-04 14:45:07 <sipa> indeed
588 2012-07-04 14:46:12 <jrmithdobbs> tbqh once it's tested a bit more i think tor only connections should be recomended, it does nothing but help network help, solves nat and everything
589 2012-07-04 14:46:29 <jrmithdobbs> s/network help/network health/
590 2012-07-04 14:48:19 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: TheBlueMatt opened pull request 1555 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1555>
591 2012-07-04 14:48:23 <BlueMatt> except for the fact that you would make everyone install tor, which is kinda ridiculous, and miners would see significantly worse propagation times (which could be worked around using the bitcoin backbone thing)
592 2012-07-04 14:49:24 dvide has joined
593 2012-07-04 14:50:44 pickett has joined
594 2012-07-04 14:51:17 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: for everyone but miners it makes sense, though, basically anyone currently using p2p would benefit from at least having tor connectivity if not being tor only
595 2012-07-04 14:51:17 <jrmithdobbs> err anyone currently using upnp
596 2012-07-04 14:51:55 <BlueMatt> most people dont want to install additional optional software if the only difference is they now dont have to use upnp...
597 2012-07-04 14:51:58 <jrmithdobbs> and having nodes on all transports is good for validation reasons, etc, but for the average end user tor-only connections make sense if it can be made easy (and it can by installing on top of tails or similar)
598 2012-07-04 14:52:04 <sipa> ok, todo list for bitcoin-seeder: 1) rework scheduling using less magic constants 2) when querying a node for hosts, also push some good addresses to it 3) support listening for p2p connections 4) safe database dumping
599 2012-07-04 14:56:37 leotreasure has joined
600 2012-07-04 15:02:07 <TD> sipa: what is bitcoin-seeder?
601 2012-07-04 15:02:27 <BlueMatt> dnsseed crawler/server
602 2012-07-04 15:02:51 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: hrm, this is weird, the connect.c i use as a proxy command for ssh works fine through this tor socks proxy, but bitcoin keeps generating this in the tor log:
603 2012-07-04 15:02:54 <jrmithdobbs> Jul 04 09:57:26.000 [warn] Socks version 0 not recognized. (Tor is not an http proxy.)
604 2012-07-04 15:02:57 <jrmithdobbs> Jul 04 09:57:26.000 [warn] Fetching socks handshake failed. Closing.
605 2012-07-04 15:03:31 <sipa> hmm?
606 2012-07-04 15:03:48 <sipa> TD: yes, my bitcoin network crawler + integrated dns seed server
607 2012-07-04 15:04:47 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: what does that connect.c do?
608 2012-07-04 15:06:11 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: it works with ssh's ProxyCommand option like this: alias torssh='ssh -2AYC -oProxyCommand="/usr/local/bin/socksconnect -4 -R remote -S localhost:9050 %h %p"'
609 2012-07-04 15:06:28 <jrmithdobbs> so it initiates the socks connection for session using the hostname/ip and port passed to it
610 2012-07-04 15:06:42 <jrmithdobbs> (-R is wether to use remote or local name resolution)
611 2012-07-04 15:06:46 <sipa> -4 means SOCKS4 ?
612 2012-07-04 15:07:03 <sipa> no, it probably means IPv4
613 2012-07-04 15:07:06 <sipa> hmm
614 2012-07-04 15:07:16 <jrmithdobbs> yes, it works with -5 too, just holdover in my alias when name resolution didn't work in tor for socks5
615 2012-07-04 15:07:25 <TD> sipa: cool
616 2012-07-04 15:07:39 <TD> sipa: what logic does it use? i'm starting to think about how to manage the local addr db on mobile phones
617 2012-07-04 15:07:42 <jrmithdobbs> this
618 2012-07-04 15:07:43 <jrmithdobbs> https://www.antagonism.org/anon/ssh-tor.shtml
619 2012-07-04 15:07:53 <TD> i'm wondering if it should just be the same as satoshis code, or whether something totally different makes more sense
620 2012-07-04 15:08:08 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: source is on there
621 2012-07-04 15:08:18 <sipa> TD: bitcoind switched to "addrman" (which i wrote) in v0.5
622 2012-07-04 15:08:40 <sipa> TD: addrman.h has some documentation about the design
623 2012-07-04 15:09:02 <sipa> the seeder keeps all addresses it knows around for a very long time, with much more statistics than a normal node needs
624 2012-07-04 15:09:11 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: what happens if I addnode an IP address?
625 2012-07-04 15:09:47 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
626 2012-07-04 15:10:21 <TD> thanks
627 2012-07-04 15:10:25 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: if it matters: Jul 04 10:06:04.965 [notice] Tor v0.2.3.18-rc (git-a2015428e4698ff9) running on Linux.
628 2012-07-04 15:10:40 <sipa> gavinandresen: what you expect, probably
629 2012-07-04 15:10:48 <sipa> gavinandresen: as the IP resolves to just one address
630 2012-07-04 15:11:11 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: connects to that ip and keeps it open, if you are asking about getaddednodeinfo output, look at https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1549#issuecomment-6751340 at the first addednde "10.232.4.10"
631 2012-07-04 15:12:11 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: hmmm. See http://pastebin.com/pCzLWXy2
632 2012-07-04 15:12:22 <gavinandresen> Maybe I was already connected to that peer?
633 2012-07-04 15:12:34 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: only thing i don't like about your seeder is that it speaks dns directly instead of outputing zones at an interval or similar
634 2012-07-04 15:12:49 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: onetry doesnt add the node to addednodeinfo, it only connects once and moves on
635 2012-07-04 15:12:54 <gavinandresen> Ah, ok
636 2012-07-04 15:12:57 <BlueMatt> its not considered an "added node" at that point
637 2012-07-04 15:12:58 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: that was exactly the reason why i wrote it - i wanted every query to return a different result
638 2012-07-04 15:13:23 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: you can get same effect with options on the dns servers if you just write out a zone file though ;p
639 2012-07-04 15:13:44 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: help for getaddednodeinfo should mention that
640 2012-07-04 15:13:49 D34TH has joined
641 2012-07-04 15:13:55 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: was just going to add that, yep
642 2012-07-04 15:13:56 <TD> sipa: btw just a heads up. apparently somebody wrote a paper (in german) claiming that Windows 7 automatically changes IPv6 addresses every N hours by default for "privacy reasons", even if there are active TCP connections on it
643 2012-07-04 15:14:06 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: and then you can dnssec sign and such ;p
644 2012-07-04 15:14:09 <BlueMatt> TD: old news
645 2012-07-04 15:14:15 <TD> orly
646 2012-07-04 15:14:40 <BlueMatt> it losing tcp connections is new, but changing ipv6 addresses it has always done
647 2012-07-04 15:14:41 <D34TH> my ipv6 addr hasnt changed once
648 2012-07-04 15:14:42 <D34TH> D:
649 2012-07-04 15:14:57 <jrmithdobbs> err ya
650 2012-07-04 15:15:06 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: my seeder can serve >20k DNS queries per second, with each getting a different subset of the known addresses
651 2012-07-04 15:15:07 <jrmithdobbs> i thought it kept the old addresses until connections dropped
652 2012-07-04 15:15:09 <BlueMatt> it keeps 2, one permanent-ish mac-address-derived one (the way linux does), and one that is "private" which rotates
653 2012-07-04 15:15:35 <Dagger2> it doesn't technically change every N hours, but rather it adds a new address and then deletes old ones after (on the default settings) a week
654 2012-07-04 15:15:40 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: unbound can server >500k a second on crap hardware with different query for every request
655 2012-07-04 15:15:42 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: ;p
656 2012-07-04 15:15:49 <jrmithdobbs> s/server/serve/
657 2012-07-04 15:15:54 <Dagger2> I don't know if it will hang on to an address even after a week if there are connections open to it though
658 2012-07-04 15:15:57 <TD> hmm
659 2012-07-04 15:15:58 <TD> ok
660 2012-07-04 15:16:07 <D34TH> 2001:XXX:X:9b1::2
661 2012-07-04 15:16:12 <D34TH> it has naver changed
662 2012-07-04 15:16:21 <BlueMatt> well thats because you manually set it to ::2
663 2012-07-04 15:16:22 <D34TH> **never
664 2012-07-04 15:16:33 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: just as an example of one implementation (and that number is probably low, tbqh)
665 2012-07-04 15:16:36 <D34TH> thats what i was automatically assigned
666 2012-07-04 15:16:39 <BlueMatt> or its a tunnel endpoint, in which case it was manually set to ::2
667 2012-07-04 15:16:54 <BlueMatt> (by you or the tunnel software)
668 2012-07-04 15:17:17 RainbowDashh has quit (Quit: SLEEP MODE. [NSFW!] [WIERD] [WTF] http://pastebin.com/6L0WjKRk)
669 2012-07-04 15:17:18 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: to be honest, i'm more sure about the efficiency of my implementation than the test setup i used to benchmark it
670 2012-07-04 15:17:56 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: anyway, pull requests welcome if you want it to write out zone files
671 2012-07-04 15:18:30 <sipa> TD: i've heard something like that before as well
672 2012-07-04 15:18:47 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: ya, i've not had time to do anything of the sort lately, your impl is just hard to shoehorn into existing dns servers, it works though
673 2012-07-04 15:19:01 <jrmithdobbs> s/hard/annoying/
674 2012-07-04 15:19:04 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: the DNS server code is completely separate
675 2012-07-04 15:19:26 <sipa> disable it, and add a thread that occassionally queries the database and dumps it
676 2012-07-04 15:19:43 <jrmithdobbs> oh? you must have re architected majorly since i last looked?
677 2012-07-04 15:19:55 <sipa> all dns code is in dns.c
678 2012-07-04 15:20:00 <sipa> and always was
679 2012-07-04 15:20:06 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: pushed
680 2012-07-04 15:20:48 <sipa> main.cpp provides a callback function to dns.c that queries the database
681 2012-07-04 15:20:58 <jrmithdobbs> anyways, back to this tor issue, any ideas?
682 2012-07-04 15:21:34 <jrmithdobbs> i'm about to see if it connects correctly on my macbook through the tor proxy ... it's running whatever latest browser bundle stable is
683 2012-07-04 15:22:01 <jrmithdobbs> that should be a good version of tor on that server though, everything else seems to work through it :(
684 2012-07-04 15:22:41 <sipa> TD: i guess we'll see what happens when 0.7 is deployed on Win7+ setups
685 2012-07-04 15:22:45 <TD> yeah
686 2012-07-04 15:23:13 <jrmithdobbs> you've got a while before anyone but comcast turns it up anyways really in the us at least
687 2012-07-04 15:23:48 <TD> i don't think it'd be a big issue for us anyway. just i didn't know about that before
688 2012-07-04 15:24:31 <BlueMatt> I believe linux also supports (though not sure about defaults) the rotating ipv6 address "for privacy reasons" stuff
689 2012-07-04 15:25:27 <Dagger2> BlueMatt: it does; you normally have to turn it on, but recent versions of Network Manager (and thus Ubuntu 12.05) turn it on by default
690 2012-07-04 15:25:49 <TD> ugh
691 2012-07-04 15:25:57 <TD> this could result in a lot of unnecessary network thrashing
692 2012-07-04 15:25:58 <BlueMatt> yea...
693 2012-07-04 15:26:27 <BlueMatt> and it really doesnt help privacy...
694 2012-07-04 15:27:19 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: it's just the default torrc from the package in wheezy with hidden service and port 8333 127.0.0.1:8333 configured right now, am I missing something?
695 2012-07-04 15:27:43 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: i haven't looked at your socksconnect stuff
696 2012-07-04 15:27:45 <BlueMatt> Dagger2: odd, latest debian testing network-manager doesnt though
697 2012-07-04 15:28:35 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: it just connects via socks proxy on behalf of ssh (or other things that have a proxycommand like option), torsocks/etc work as well browser configured to use that socks proxy ;/
698 2012-07-04 15:28:51 <Dagger2> BlueMatt: hm. I'm going on second-hand knowledge, since none of my systems have Network Manager installed
699 2012-07-04 15:29:17 <BlueMatt> I wouldnt be surprised if either debian is turning it off or canonical is turning it on, though
700 2012-07-04 15:29:32 <jrmithdobbs> i'm saying my tor setup seems to work, but bitcoin keeps throwing a proxy connect error using -tor=127.0.0.1:9050 and: tcp 0 0 127.0.0.1:9050 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 25291/tor
701 2012-07-04 15:29:53 <sipa> BlueMatt: canonical turning it on would be my guess
702 2012-07-04 15:30:02 <BlueMatt> yea, probably
703 2012-07-04 15:31:52 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: it works correctly on os x using the current stable tor browser bundle for outbound connections
704 2012-07-04 15:32:13 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: I'm connected to the hidden service on the node that can't make outbound tor connections from my laptop ...
705 2012-07-04 15:32:23 <jrmithdobbs> using same commit
706 2012-07-04 15:32:28 <sipa> hmm, weird
707 2012-07-04 15:33:45 <jrmithdobbs> works fine with this version of tor:
708 2012-07-04 15:33:46 <jrmithdobbs> $ ./Applications/TorBrowser_en-US.app/Contents/MacOS/tor --version
709 2012-07-04 15:33:46 <jrmithdobbs> Jul 04 10:29:13.600 [notice] Tor v0.2.2.37 (git-fce6eb1c44e87bc2). This is experimental software. Do not rely on it for strong anonymity. (Running on Darwin x86_64)
710 2012-07-04 15:33:49 <jrmithdobbs> Tor version 0.2.2.37 (git-fce6eb1c44e87bc2).
711 2012-07-04 15:34:02 <jrmithdobbs> but not this one:
712 2012-07-04 15:34:02 <jrmithdobbs> $ tor --version
713 2012-07-04 15:34:03 <jrmithdobbs> Jul 04 10:29:50.169 [notice] Tor v0.2.3.18-rc (git-a2015428e4698ff9) running on Linux.
714 2012-07-04 15:34:05 maaku has joined
715 2012-07-04 15:34:06 <jrmithdobbs> Jul 04 10:29:50.169 [notice] Tor can't help you if you use it wrong! Learn how to be safe at https://www.torproject.org/download/download#warning
716 2012-07-04 15:34:09 <jrmithdobbs> Tor version 0.2.3.18-rc (git-a2015428e4698ff9).
717 2012-07-04 15:35:07 <jrmithdobbs> is it how you're doing the socks handshake maybe? (like i said other things work fine with both) i know in the 2.3 series there's a lot of work going on on isolating different connection types across identities and such and i think there may be more strict error checking on the socks connections maybe?!
718 2012-07-04 15:35:12 <jrmithdobbs> weird
719 2012-07-04 15:35:46 <jrmithdobbs> also sync'ing over tor is surprisingly not completely slow, wow
720 2012-07-04 15:36:50 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: syncing is rarely network-limited...even if none of it is threaded
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728 2012-07-04 15:41:25 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: oh it's significantly slower than when i do it straight over the vpn to that box
729 2012-07-04 15:42:14 <BlueMatt> yea...because its not properly threaded
730 2012-07-04 15:42:30 <BlueMatt> it shouldnt be limited by network speed, but it does slow it down
731 2012-07-04 15:42:55 * BlueMatt takes this opportunity to shamelessly plug https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1233
732 2012-07-04 15:43:02 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: it's weird, everything else i try works fine
733 2012-07-04 15:47:34 <jrmithdobbs> just double checked the iceweasel package on that box and it works correctly as both socks4 and 5
734 2012-07-04 15:49:01 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened issue 1556 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1556>
735 2012-07-04 15:52:10 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
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737 2012-07-04 15:58:47 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: i'm comparing how that connect.c vs the socks code in bitcoin do the handshake
738 2012-07-04 15:59:19 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: something in the bitcoin version is causing the tor proxy to return the 0x01 error bit on connect() request
739 2012-07-04 15:59:58 t7 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0/20120624012213])
740 2012-07-04 16:03:48 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: i think I see the problem
741 2012-07-04 16:04:39 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: testing
742 2012-07-04 16:08:15 RainbowDashh has joined
743 2012-07-04 16:15:08 <jrmithdobbs> hrm, nope
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746 2012-07-04 16:21:00 Mystery8anshee is now known as copumpkin
747 2012-07-04 16:23:43 <midnightmagic> hah!
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749 2012-07-04 16:27:45 <BlueMatt> dammnnn...my bitcoin-qt built using clang's lto is only 4.6M (vs gcc's lto is 6.9M)
750 2012-07-04 16:28:44 <drizztbsd> BlueMatt: gcc with -Os + strip is smaller
751 2012-07-04 16:29:24 <drizztbsd> gcc with -O2/-O3 creates PERFORMANT binaries, not small binaries
752 2012-07-04 16:29:54 <BlueMatt> yea, and I didnt run clang to target size either
753 2012-07-04 16:30:14 <BlueMatt> (sorry, should be 4.0M vs 5.6M)
754 2012-07-04 16:32:20 <BlueMatt> clang-lto: " block index 6523ms" gcc-lto: " block index 8497ms"
755 2012-07-04 16:32:46 <drizztbsd> wow
756 2012-07-04 16:32:47 <BlueMatt> thats gcc -O3, clang -O4
757 2012-07-04 16:33:11 * BlueMatt proposes we do release builds using clang
758 2012-07-04 16:33:19 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: -tor= doesn't seem to honor -socks=
759 2012-07-04 16:34:26 <BlueMatt> wallet load goes from 106ms to 89ms and address load goes from 22ms to 15ms
760 2012-07-04 16:34:54 meLon has joined
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767 2012-07-04 16:43:07 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: if i specific -socks after -tor it honors it, but it still fails to connect on 2.3.18-rc :(
768 2012-07-04 16:43:35 <jrmithdobbs> via 5 or 4
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773 2012-07-04 17:13:32 <kkulhavy> hi all
774 2012-07-04 17:13:43 <kkulhavy> We want to set up our business to accept bitcoins
775 2012-07-04 17:14:05 <kkulhavy> But I couldn't find an information how to do it
776 2012-07-04 17:14:12 <kkulhavy> Not even in the "Merchants sections"
777 2012-07-04 17:14:16 <kkulhavy> What do we have to do=
778 2012-07-04 17:14:27 RainbowDashh has quit (Quit: SLEEP MODE. [NSFW!] [WIERD] [WTF] http://pastebin.com/6L0WjKRk)
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782 2012-07-04 17:24:01 <jgarzik> sipa: so... ACK #1554 (dup GetHash) for now?
783 2012-07-04 17:35:35 bovsh has quit (Read error: No route to host)
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804 2012-07-04 18:35:53 <galambo> http://cms.web.cern.ch/news/observation-new-particle-mass-125-gev
805 2012-07-04 18:37:16 <PK> so Cern won the race to finding the higgs boson.
806 2012-07-04 18:37:23 <galambo> it will be very neat if they did infact find it
807 2012-07-04 18:37:54 <galambo> happy 4th of july ;O
808 2012-07-04 18:38:17 <galambo> 125 gev thats a big firecracker
809 2012-07-04 18:40:52 <galambo> for a subatomic particle
810 2012-07-04 18:44:38 jurov is now known as away!aktooj@84.245.71.31|jurov
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812 2012-07-04 18:47:45 <jgarzik> hrm
813 2012-07-04 18:48:11 <jgarzik> what is the quickest way -- without spending bitcoins -- to verify that bitcoin address 123456789 is present in the bitcoind wallet?
814 2012-07-04 18:49:39 <ersi> Isn't that what the sign message feature is for?
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818 2012-07-04 18:58:32 <luke-jr> jgarzik: do you really need "quickest" (ie, don't spend CPU signing, or require unlocking the wallet) or is ersi's solution OK?
819 2012-07-04 19:01:02 <jgarzik> easiest from command line. I found and used signmessage about the time ersi was typing :)
820 2012-07-04 19:01:24 <jgarzik> signmessage correctly distinguishes between (a) you have the private key, (b) you don't have the private key, and (c) invalid address
821 2012-07-04 19:01:37 <jgarzik> so it functions as a super-sized validateaddress :)
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823 2012-07-04 19:02:12 <ersi> Glad to hear
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845 2012-07-04 19:34:00 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: it ok if i post pcaps with your onion address in them to tor's trac to try and track this down?
846 2012-07-04 19:34:06 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: same question ^
847 2012-07-04 19:34:24 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: fine for mine.
848 2012-07-04 19:35:01 <jrmithdobbs> the socks handshake looks right on the wire afaict, it's got to be related to the circuit sep logic stuff in .2.3 i think
849 2012-07-04 19:37:15 <jrmithdobbs> works fine on .2.2.37
850 2012-07-04 19:37:15 <jrmithdobbs> well "wire" being lo but w/e
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857 2012-07-04 19:43:28 <gmaxwell> 09:28 < BlueMatt> thats gcc -O3, clang -O4
858 2012-07-04 19:43:49 <gmaxwell> Seriously, every time I've seen a major speedup with clang it was miscompiling the code.
859 2012-07-04 19:43:59 <gmaxwell> Check carefully. :)
860 2012-07-04 19:44:41 TD has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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862 2012-07-04 19:48:53 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: well there aren't any obvious problems cropping up, downloading blocks appears to work
863 2012-07-04 19:49:39 wasabi2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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865 2012-07-04 19:50:33 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: somehow I dont see clang being /that/ unreliable...I mean every iphone app is compiled using it and most mac apps...
866 2012-07-04 19:51:12 <gmaxwell> It's reliable, I didn't say it wasn't, I said that every time I've seen a major speedup out of it it was miscompiling. Important distinction.
867 2012-07-04 19:51:53 <BlueMatt> well I find it hard to believe that even rare miscompiles happen that easily
868 2012-07-04 19:52:00 <gmaxwell> In particular, for a while it had problems with reordering locks out of loops, which created really subtle bugs.
869 2012-07-04 19:52:36 <BlueMatt> mmm, fun
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873 2012-07-04 19:52:54 <gmaxwell> For libtheora it was manging to just not emit some ASM blocks.
874 2012-07-04 19:53:05 <BlueMatt> heh
875 2012-07-04 19:53:14 <BlueMatt> what version was this?
876 2012-07-04 19:54:02 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: TheBlueMatt opened pull request 1557 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1557>
877 2012-07-04 19:54:31 <gmaxwell> An older one, I don't know the clang version, though it was the apple xcode release prior to the most recent I think. â though apple's xcode stuff lags clang development, so it was a major pain.
878 2012-07-04 19:55:00 <BlueMatt> hmm...well maybe they've fixed some stuff, I think xcode releases are only yearly...
879 2012-07-04 19:56:21 <gmaxwell> Oh sure. In any case, it's useful to actually look for where the speedup is and look at the emitted code. You may discover that it's breaking something, or you may find whatever moronic thing the code does that clang really can optimize and gcc can't and by fixing it make both better.
880 2012-07-04 19:56:47 <BlueMatt> yep, was gonna profile it later, hadnt gotten around to it yet
881 2012-07-04 20:01:07 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: ping
882 2012-07-04 20:07:50 agricocb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
883 2012-07-04 20:08:28 <paraipan> ;;ping
884 2012-07-04 20:08:28 <gribble> pong
885 2012-07-04 20:08:45 <paraipan> nice :)
886 2012-07-04 20:09:37 <Cubox> hmm, I asked here a few days ago, and you said me to ask on forums for my fork's problem. I don't have an answer. There is others ways to get some help (mailing lists ?) ?
887 2012-07-04 20:12:31 <jrmithdobbs> ;;tell sipa hey is it ok if your onion address is in a trac entry on torproject.org
888 2012-07-04 20:12:49 <jrmithdobbs> did i do that right
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891 2012-07-04 20:17:45 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: should be ;;later tell ...
892 2012-07-04 20:18:05 <jrmithdobbs> ;;later tell sipa hey is it ok if your onion address is in a trac entry on torproject.org
893 2012-07-04 20:18:05 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
894 2012-07-04 20:18:15 <gmaxwell> Cubox: did you ask on the forums?
895 2012-07-04 20:19:11 <Cubox> gmaxwell: yes
896 2012-07-04 20:19:22 <Cubox> July 03, 2012, 05:30:24 PM
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898 2012-07-04 20:19:51 <Cubox> I got 5 or 4 answers, with most of they saying "oh no, please, not a new scam fork"
899 2012-07-04 20:20:06 <Cubox> but not the excepted answer :(
900 2012-07-04 20:20:15 <gmaxwell> hahah
901 2012-07-04 20:20:28 <Cubox> I said that is just for fun >.<
902 2012-07-04 20:21:34 <Cubox> "I'm making a fork of litecoin, for fun, and looking how bitcoin works." -> "SCAM ALERT. PONZI!" or "Please god not another pointless fork."
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904 2012-07-04 20:23:44 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: -tor is always socks5
905 2012-07-04 20:25:00 <sipa> jgarzik: validateaddress also distinguishes between those 3 cases
906 2012-07-04 20:25:30 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: ya i saw that
907 2012-07-04 20:25:42 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: yeah you can post the onion address
908 2012-07-04 20:25:58 <jrmithdobbs> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/6297
909 2012-07-04 20:26:02 <jrmithdobbs> if you want to see the packet dumps
910 2012-07-04 20:26:13 <jrmithdobbs> i'm honestly not sure which side the problem is on
911 2012-07-04 20:27:16 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: kinda realized it's a public node whose address is propigating, asking is kind of unnecessary and posted it a couple minutes before you answered
912 2012-07-04 20:27:25 <jrmithdobbs> heh
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928 2012-07-04 21:11:35 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: had to reload my chain so Ive only profiled -loadblock, but from looking at this (where there is only a very small difference in performance) the performance difference is because llvm is inlining a /ton/ of stuff
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942 2012-07-04 21:35:51 <devrandom> hi BlueMatt
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946 2012-07-04 21:46:46 <devrandom> (just saying hi, nothing special)
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951 2012-07-04 21:55:05 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: ah, you can cause gcc to do that too.. but it usually reduces performance due to l1i/l2 cache pressure.
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953 2012-07-04 21:58:55 <BlueMatt> whats up devrandom?
954 2012-07-04 21:59:21 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yep, though it appears to be doing it at least somewhat smartly and actually succeeding
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959 2012-07-04 22:03:45 <BlueMatt> though there do appear to be some obvious functions that are only ever called in one place that could be trivially inlined (Id think)
960 2012-07-04 22:04:02 <BlueMatt> but...meh maybe its getting duplicated due to some other really weird optimization...
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964 2012-07-04 22:18:58 <devrandom> BlueMatt: just saying hi. anything new and exciting?
965 2012-07-04 22:19:38 <BlueMatt> devrandom: around here? not much lots of pulls getting merged, but more piling up faster, so...nothing new
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973 2012-07-04 23:03:34 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: it appears to have done quite a number on the serialization code, with CTransaction::GetHash() nearly dropping by 3x in total cpu cycles and being dominated by SHA256 instead of serialization
974 2012-07-04 23:04:08 * sipa thinks we should put a memory-only uint256 field to CTransaction, for caching hashes
975 2012-07-04 23:04:33 <[Tycho]> :)
976 2012-07-04 23:04:42 <BlueMatt> meh, its easy enough to remove duplicate GetHash() calls without doing that
977 2012-07-04 23:05:12 <sipa> also easy enough to add a counter as well, and see how many rehashings it saves us in practice
978 2012-07-04 23:05:14 <BlueMatt> but if llvm can do this much for our serialization, there has to be a better way to do it...
979 2012-07-04 23:05:20 <gmaxwell> might be fun to wrap sha256 with code that screams if you ever send it the same data twice.
980 2012-07-04 23:06:12 <BlueMatt> its pretty easy to see when looking at it in kcachegrind
981 2012-07-04 23:06:19 <BlueMatt> all the sha256 blocks are pretty evident
982 2012-07-04 23:08:02 <BlueMatt> I like when idiots protesting banks are put on the news "Barclays is stupid because they are falsely [DECREASING] interest rates which hurts everyone who has a loan" wait????
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985 2012-07-04 23:09:02 <freewil> well they should be protesting
986 2012-07-04 23:09:11 <freewil> they just got their facts a little mixed up
987 2012-07-04 23:10:05 <BlueMatt> I have no problem with people protesting people committing fraud, I do have a problem with people prtesting when they have no clue wtf they are talking about
988 2012-07-04 23:11:42 <freewil> i can agree with that
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991 2012-07-04 23:12:24 <freewil> another consequence of fradualent interest rates, social security trust fund will peak 6 years earlier than projected
992 2012-07-04 23:12:27 <freewil> http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-07-04/bernanke-%E2%80%93-my-goal-wreck-social-security
993 2012-07-04 23:13:23 * BlueMatt reads the title and understands that the author has no concept of macroeconomics
994 2012-07-04 23:13:43 <freewil> dont read it too literally
995 2012-07-04 23:14:39 * BlueMatt reads the article and understands that the author has no concept of monetary macroeconomic policies
996 2012-07-04 23:15:27 <BlueMatt> nor of the fed's mandate and purpose
997 2012-07-04 23:19:53 <freewil> not sure why you say that
998 2012-07-04 23:20:12 <BlueMatt> clang stripped out the whole serialize mess where we go in and serialize CTxIns, CTxOuts, etc...and pulls it into a series of calls to serialize vector of unsigned chars
999 2012-07-04 23:20:16 <BlueMatt> now thats well done
1000 2012-07-04 23:20:52 <BlueMatt> freewil: pointing out that op twist had that effect is interesting, saying that the fed made a mistake or that the fed should be blamed for that effect is stupid
1001 2012-07-04 23:22:09 <freewil> it's a critique of the fed's ZIRP policy
1002 2012-07-04 23:22:22 <gmaxwell> WELCOME TO #FED
1003 2012-07-04 23:22:26 <gmaxwell> oh this isn't #FED
1004 2012-07-04 23:22:27 <gmaxwell> ?
1005 2012-07-04 23:22:42 <BlueMatt> oh, its more general about setting low interest rates, nope nevermind its just plain stupid then
1006 2012-07-04 23:22:52 <freewil> ...
1007 2012-07-04 23:23:04 <freewil> hard to debate with someone who doesnt make any real objections
1008 2012-07-04 23:23:29 <BlueMatt> lets go to -otc, because that is where financial debates always (used) to happen
1009 2012-07-04 23:24:02 <BlueMatt> freewil: #bitcoin-otc
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1011 2012-07-04 23:41:58 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: its looking like this is something esoteric in how bitcoin is handling socks
1012 2012-07-04 23:42:28 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: the .2.3 branch (which will be stable soon-ish) has a lot stricter checking on all the socks stuff
1013 2012-07-04 23:42:52 <galambo> is there a channel #fedcoin-dev ;)
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