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2 2012-07-06 00:01:37 <luke-jr> (but then we'll never get a real fix for those?)
3 2012-07-06 00:02:03 <luke-jr> (which means we'll never find out why they happen, which could have other more harmful effectsâ¦)
4 2012-07-06 00:02:10 <gmaxwell> I don't know that there is something that needs a real fix.
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7 2012-07-06 00:02:27 <gmaxwell> I think its just that the best block update happens before the transactions themselves are inserted.
8 2012-07-06 00:02:40 <sipa> well, when pruning gets enabled there may be a problem
9 2012-07-06 00:03:08 <sipa> if a rescan is deemed necessary whose blocks are not available anymore, you need to warm the user
10 2012-07-06 00:03:29 <sipa> (or trigger some redownload process, probably)
11 2012-07-06 00:04:34 <gmaxwell> hm. although losing exausted transactions is not the end of the world.
12 2012-07-06 00:04:53 <sipa> no, bit redownloading should not happen if not necessary
13 2012-07-06 00:04:57 <sipa> *but
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15 2012-07-06 00:14:43 <jgarzik> sipa: ACK
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18 2012-07-06 00:25:48 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin-Pull-Build build #2: ABORTED in 1 hr 27 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin-Pull-Build/2/
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21 2012-07-06 00:30:02 <BlueMattBot> Yippie, build fixed!
22 2012-07-06 00:30:02 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #389: FIXED in 2 hr 3 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/389/
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42 2012-07-06 01:28:45 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #390: FAILURE in 57 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/390/
43 2012-07-06 01:29:04 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoind-Sanitytest build #352: ABORTED in 2 hr 30 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoind-Sanitytest/352/
44 2012-07-06 01:29:06 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoind-Sanitytest build #353: FAILURE in 1.5 sec: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoind-Sanitytest/353/
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60 2012-07-06 02:14:05 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: I thought I'd volunteer to write the first draft of the BIP, unless you'd already started on that.
61 2012-07-06 02:14:54 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: BIP for block height in the coinbase? Go for it
62 2012-07-06 02:15:32 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: yep, and the network upgrade process that will be followed. cool.
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66 2012-07-06 02:28:39 <BlueMattBot> Yippie, build fixed!
67 2012-07-06 02:28:40 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #391: FIXED in 59 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/391/
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94 2012-07-06 03:13:36 <quellhorst> Anyone know of a good example website that accepts bitcoin payments?
95 2012-07-06 03:13:48 <quellhorst> also, anyone know of ruby code for accepting bitcoin payments?
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100 2012-07-06 03:26:12 <Tuxavant> quellhorst, search this in google: inurl:route=information/contact "powered by opencart" bitcoin
101 2012-07-06 03:29:15 <Keverw> Hey. What is ismine from validateAddress?
102 2012-07-06 03:30:42 <forrestv> Keverw, it tells you whether the address is yours
103 2012-07-06 03:30:53 <BlueMattBot> Yippie, build fixed!
104 2012-07-06 03:30:54 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoind-Sanitytest build #354: FIXED in 1 hr 2 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoind-Sanitytest/354/
105 2012-07-06 03:30:56 <Keverw> oh⦠Also, sendfrom? Does that return anything?
106 2012-07-06 03:31:06 <Keverw> for some reason it's undefined.
107 2012-07-06 03:31:22 <Keverw> I'm using https://github.com/jb55/node-bitcoin
108 2012-07-06 03:32:44 <Keverw> http://pastebin.com/T8cDXBfv
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110 2012-07-06 03:34:08 <forrestv> Keverw, have a look at https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_reference_%28JSON-RPC%29
111 2012-07-06 03:34:16 <forrestv> it looks like sendfrom returns the transaction id if it succeeds
112 2012-07-06 03:35:08 <Keverw> I've been looking at https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Original_Bitcoin_client/API_Calls_list
113 2012-07-06 03:37:49 <forrestv> err, that's actually what i meant to paste :)
114 2012-07-06 03:37:56 <Keverw> yeah but shouldn't it return an error otherwise?
115 2012-07-06 03:38:27 <forrestv> Bitcoin will definitely return an error... i'm not sure how node-bitcoin will handle it
116 2012-07-06 03:39:10 <Keverw> Well I know someone who built a wallet in PHP, and he said it should return stuff like INVALID_AMT
117 2012-07-06 03:39:31 <Keverw> INVALID_ADDR, SEND_FAILED, LOW_BALANCE, I kinda wish the doc's we're better.
118 2012-07-06 03:39:36 <Keverw> were*
119 2012-07-06 03:39:45 <forrestv> those are JSONRPC errors, not return values
120 2012-07-06 03:41:25 <forrestv> maybe try looking at the source.. it's very readable: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp#L920
121 2012-07-06 03:42:23 <Keverw> After doing some more logging, { [Error: value is type str, expected real] code: -1 } seems to be the errror
122 2012-07-06 03:42:43 <Keverw> So should I convert the users entered amount to something?
123 2012-07-06 03:43:40 <Keverw> guess I would convert it to a "real"?
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126 2012-07-06 03:50:23 <forrestv> Keefe, yeah, a floating point number
127 2012-07-06 03:51:51 <Keefe> hi
128 2012-07-06 03:52:54 <forrestv> Keverw*
129 2012-07-06 03:53:30 <Keverw> oh. okay. Looks like parseFloat should do it. Was having a little chat with the #Javascript guys
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133 2012-07-06 04:01:59 <Keverw> Sweet. Got it! Now It gives me! [Error: Account has insufficient funds] code: -6 } so that's a good thing. Now I need to write some code to scrape the error message, or should I check if the error contains a string like "Account has insufficient funds" and write my own error messages?
134 2012-07-06 04:03:18 <forrestv> Keefe, use the error code
135 2012-07-06 04:03:53 <Keverw> forrestv: hehe, you keep getting my name wrong. Auto correct fail?
136 2012-07-06 04:04:05 <Keefe> name complete
137 2012-07-06 04:04:12 <forrestv> yes, very sorry, Keefe :/
138 2012-07-06 04:04:19 <Keverw> but yeah, I can scrape the error code out. Incase the error string gets exhcnaged
139 2012-07-06 04:04:25 <Keverw> gets changed*
140 2012-07-06 04:05:34 <Keverw> is there a list of error codes, or do I kinda have to find them? Maybe I could improve the wiki if not.
141 2012-07-06 04:07:22 <forrestv> i don't see a list anywhere
142 2012-07-06 04:08:19 <Keverw> same :( I'll create a wiki page I guess.
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154 2012-07-06 05:03:32 <quellhorst> Tuxavant: so opencart has a good bitcoin plugin?
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159 2012-07-06 05:12:35 <quellhorst> Tuxavant: also lame, most of those sites redirect to mybitcoin.com which is defunct
160 2012-07-06 05:26:26 <copumpkin> whee, I just counted all the blocks in my blk0001.dat
161 2012-07-06 05:26:27 <copumpkin> 187985
162 2012-07-06 05:27:45 <copumpkin> I guess that means 241 blocks were forsaken in history
163 2012-07-06 05:29:09 <gmaxwell> That you observed.
164 2012-07-06 05:29:27 <copumpkin> yeah, or someone I downloaded my blockchain from observed
165 2012-07-06 05:29:41 <copumpkin> took me 56 seconds to compute that number
166 2012-07-06 05:29:43 <copumpkin> hmm
167 2012-07-06 05:29:43 <gmaxwell> unless you copied the blk file directly..
168 2012-07-06 05:29:58 <gmaxwell> Bitcoin won't forward blocks that aren't on the best chain.
169 2012-07-06 05:30:09 <copumpkin> nah, mine grew organically
170 2012-07-06 05:30:26 <gmaxwell> right, so you observed all of them in realtime.
171 2012-07-06 05:30:36 <copumpkin> well, I only started around this time last year
172 2012-07-06 05:30:39 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: -loadblocks will reproduce orphans
173 2012-07-06 05:31:00 <copumpkin> so am I just counting wrong, or what are the 241 missing ones?
174 2012-07-06 05:31:07 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: sure. but that would still be copying a blk file!
175 2012-07-06 05:31:17 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: they're orphans.
176 2012-07-06 05:31:20 <copumpkin> oh okay
177 2012-07-06 05:31:24 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: 241 sounds fine, actually a bit low.
178 2012-07-06 05:31:31 <gmaxwell> (for the last year)
179 2012-07-06 05:31:41 * jgarzik posts first draft of BIP XX: Block v2, Height in Coinbase - https://gist.github.com/3058253
180 2012-07-06 05:31:42 <copumpkin> hmm, my bitcoin client seems happy enough
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182 2012-07-06 05:31:54 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: sure. They're normal and expected.
183 2012-07-06 05:31:56 <copumpkin> I've spent a decent amount of time offline though
184 2012-07-06 05:31:59 toffoo has quit ()
185 2012-07-06 05:32:10 <copumpkin> in the sense that while I'm at work, I'm online, but my bitcoin client can't connect through the proxy
186 2012-07-06 05:32:10 <jgarzik> any criticism welcome on the BIP draft -- though no promises of edits until at least morning ;)
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248 2012-07-06 09:22:15 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1563 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1563>
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252 2012-07-06 09:49:17 <`cinder> Hi all - anyone know if the getbalance() json call can get the balance of an address not in the local wallet? Always returns 0 when I try it (which is incorrect) but I might just be screwing the call up somehow.
253 2012-07-06 09:52:52 <sipa> cinder: doing that requires an index for all addresses; as this is not necessary for normal usage, bitcoind does not keep it
254 2012-07-06 09:53:21 <`cinder> Ah, fair enough, thanks
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256 2012-07-06 09:54:30 <sipa> alao, getbalance returns the amount in the wallet, not the amount received or available to a given address
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258 2012-07-06 09:55:16 <`cinder> I thought the first param could be an address (or '*' for the whole wallet)?
259 2012-07-06 09:55:42 <sipa> no, those are accounts
260 2012-07-06 09:55:56 <`cinder> Oh! Sorry, v new to the json shiz :)
261 2012-07-06 09:55:59 <sipa> accounts are local-only wallet balances
262 2012-07-06 09:56:19 <sipa> ;;google bitcointalk accounts explained
263 2012-07-06 09:56:20 <gribble> Mt.Gox AML/KYC Process Explained: <https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=86224.0>; Trading Discussion: <https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=8.0>; Bitcoin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin>
264 2012-07-06 09:56:27 <sipa> no...
265 2012-07-06 09:56:59 <sipa> ;;google site:bitcointalk.org accounts explained
266 2012-07-06 09:57:00 <gribble> Mt.Gox AML/KYC Process Explained: <https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=86224.15;wap2>; Print Page - Mt.Gox AML/KYC Process Explained - Bitcoin Forum: <https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=printpage;topic=86243.0>; Mt.Gox AML/KYC Process Explained - Bitcoin Forum: <https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=86224.0;wap2>
267 2012-07-06 09:57:16 <sipa> ;;google site:bitcoin.it accounts explained
268 2012-07-06 09:57:17 <gribble> Accounts explained - Bitcoin: <https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Accounts_explained>; Talk:Accounts explained - Bitcoin: <https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Talk:Accounts_explained>; Category:Technical - Bitcoin: <https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Category:Technical>
269 2012-07-06 09:57:21 <sipa> there
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271 2012-07-06 09:57:53 <`cinder> Cheers, I'll have a read
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274 2012-07-06 10:08:24 <Diapolo> Is the "-limitfreerelay" intentionally not mentioned in the help display?
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287 2012-07-06 11:22:12 <orion> Hi. I am getting 100% CPU usage even though I have a completed block chain. I am on FreeBSD 9.0-STABLE, and I am running version 0.6.1-539-g6e3a1a3-dirty-beta. Does anyone know what could be wrong?
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289 2012-07-06 11:26:27 <Diapolo> orion: That one seems outdated, can you use a current version?
290 2012-07-06 11:29:45 <orion> Diapolo: There was some confusion about that last night.
291 2012-07-06 11:30:25 <Diapolo> orion: I was not here, so sorry mate.
292 2012-07-06 11:30:52 <orion> I cloned this repo: git://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.git
293 2012-07-06 11:31:12 <orion> I am on the master branch.
294 2012-07-06 11:31:28 <orion> As a result, I don't understand why it's printing 0.6.1 and not 0.6.3
295 2012-07-06 11:32:27 wasabi2 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
296 2012-07-06 11:33:54 <Diapolo> the master branch is on 0.6.99 I think
297 2012-07-06 11:35:55 one_zero has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
298 2012-07-06 11:38:01 <sipa> orion: current git head is planned to become 0.7.0
299 2012-07-06 11:38:24 <sipa> orion: the last version created from git head was 0.6.1
300 2012-07-06 11:38:48 <sipa> 0.6.2 and 0.6.3 were side branches with backported fixes
301 2012-07-06 11:39:56 Maged has joined
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304 2012-07-06 11:48:39 <Diapolo> sipa: Can the RC phase delayed until the biggest GUI pulls I have open got merged ... should not take too long. Or when is it intended to start?
305 2012-07-06 11:52:03 CodesInChaos has joined
306 2012-07-06 11:53:20 <sipa> Diapolo: no idea, ask gavin
307 2012-07-06 11:54:04 <sipa> orion: what did you do to get 100% cpu usage?
308 2012-07-06 11:55:23 <orion> sipa: Nothing.
309 2012-07-06 11:56:16 <sipa> any command line options or config settings?
310 2012-07-06 11:56:46 <orion> No.
311 2012-07-06 11:56:56 <orion> I have the completed blockchain.
312 2012-07-06 11:57:11 <orion> USEUPNP=-, USE_IPV6=1
313 2012-07-06 11:57:19 rdponticelli has joined
314 2012-07-06 11:57:28 <orion> Although, I am really interested in knowing why my version is messed up.
315 2012-07-06 11:57:41 <sipa> i explained it to you?
316 2012-07-06 11:57:45 Maged has joined
317 2012-07-06 11:57:52 * Diablo-D3 launches sipa into space
318 2012-07-06 11:58:01 <Diablo-D3> SPACE SIPA TO THE RESSCUUUEEEEE
319 2012-07-06 11:58:10 <orion> Ahh, *scroll*
320 2012-07-06 11:58:37 <Diablo-D3> hrm, I think I should have put him in a space suit first
321 2012-07-06 11:58:38 <Diablo-D3> oh well
322 2012-07-06 12:01:26 <tgs3> how should we write amount in satoshis?
323 2012-07-06 12:01:37 <tgs3> e.g. I have 100000000 satoshi (1 BTC) ?
324 2012-07-06 12:02:39 <sipa> i wouldn't use satoshis as a unit in anything but protocol-level talk
325 2012-07-06 12:03:15 <tgs3> also, bitcoin api should accept numbers in satoshi
326 2012-07-06 12:03:55 <sipa> i consider the fact that things are internally represented using them an implementation issue
327 2012-07-06 12:04:09 <sipa> the currency unit is bitcoin
328 2012-07-06 12:04:33 <sipa> (the fact that the RPC using floating point numbers is another matter)
329 2012-07-06 12:04:43 <CodesInChaos> for user iterfaces I'd prefer mBTC, μBTC etc.
330 2012-07-06 12:04:53 <jeremias> I prefer euros
331 2012-07-06 12:04:55 <sipa> CodesInChaos: indeed
332 2012-07-06 12:05:01 <jeremias> I don't want to think in bitcoins
333 2012-07-06 12:05:04 <tgs3> flaoting points for money are crazy
334 2012-07-06 12:05:14 <jeremias> I want the client software to do the calculations for me
335 2012-07-06 12:05:24 <CodesInChaos> floating point for money is perfectly fine. Binary floating point is not
336 2012-07-06 12:05:28 <tgs3> jeremias: would you like it with fries
337 2012-07-06 12:05:33 <jeremias> yeah
338 2012-07-06 12:05:50 <jeremias> well, actually I've made easywallet.org to suit my philosophy
339 2012-07-06 12:06:00 <tgs3> lol, online wallet
340 2012-07-06 12:06:05 <tgs3> wait
341 2012-07-06 12:06:07 <jeremias> well, whatever
342 2012-07-06 12:06:28 <tgs3> ring ring
343 2012-07-06 12:06:38 <tgs3> jeremias: its mtgox calling, they want 2011 Jan back
344 2012-07-06 12:06:57 <tgs3> or rather mybitcoin
345 2012-07-06 12:07:00 <jeremias> I don't promote to use online wallets, but currently it seems to be only option for iphone
346 2012-07-06 12:07:15 <jeremias> and also for very easy beginner level
347 2012-07-06 12:07:34 <jeremias> so shut the fuck up, what have you done to promote bitcoin?
348 2012-07-06 12:07:44 <orion> sipa: I switched to the 0.6.3 branch and the problem still happens,.
349 2012-07-06 12:08:13 <sipa> orion: are you able to use a debugger to try to find where it is spending time?
350 2012-07-06 12:10:08 <orion> Standby.
351 2012-07-06 12:10:22 Diapolo has left ()
352 2012-07-06 12:11:49 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1564 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1564>
353 2012-07-06 12:16:32 <orion> #8 0x0000000000713268 in ipcThread (parg=0x817218180) at src/qt/qtipcserver.cpp:33
354 2012-07-06 12:19:49 <tgs3> jeremias: to promote bitcoin I did NOT started an e-wallet like mybitcoin ;)
355 2012-07-06 12:20:00 <tgs3> this is widelly considered a good idea
356 2012-07-06 12:21:09 <jeremias> well, I like to lower the barrier of entry
357 2012-07-06 12:21:25 <orion> sipa: ^
358 2012-07-06 12:21:39 <jeremias> and it is also nice for iPhone users to have some kind of solution
359 2012-07-06 12:21:41 <sipa> orion: oh, you're using bitcoin-qt ?
360 2012-07-06 12:21:46 minimoose has joined
361 2012-07-06 12:21:50 <tgs3> there is not iPhone wallet yet?
362 2012-07-06 12:22:12 <orion> sipa:
363 2012-07-06 12:22:15 <jeremias> and I also put heavy disclaimers around, and also I'm not anonymous
364 2012-07-06 12:22:19 <orion> sipa: Isn't that the original client?
365 2012-07-06 12:22:31 <jeremias> the site is run by an actual LLC registered in Finland
366 2012-07-06 12:22:33 <sipa> orion: yes, sure, but on BSD i assumed it was for a server just running bitcoind
367 2012-07-06 12:22:51 <orion> No. I have a FreeBSD Desktop here.
368 2012-07-06 12:22:56 <jeremias> the problem is apple bans iPhone wallets, but they can't ban web wallet
369 2012-07-06 12:23:09 <jeremias> and web wallets can nowadays use QR codes
370 2012-07-06 12:23:18 <sipa> orion: anyway, patches welcome, but BSD isn't officially supported
371 2012-07-06 12:23:22 <orion> Oh. :/
372 2012-07-06 12:23:42 <orion> Ok.
373 2012-07-06 12:23:45 <tgs3> lol apple banned iphone client?
374 2012-07-06 12:23:46 <sipa> orion: there have been problems on other systems as well with IPC before (it was disabled on OSX and WIN32 already for that reason)
375 2012-07-06 12:24:11 <orion> How can I disable it?
376 2012-07-06 12:24:17 <orion> Some qmake flag?
377 2012-07-06 12:24:47 <jeremias> tgs3: they have banned several iphone clients...
378 2012-07-06 12:24:59 ThomasV has joined
379 2012-07-06 12:25:06 <jeremias> actually it was good that they banned BItPak, because it sucked so hard
380 2012-07-06 12:25:07 <sipa> orion: see src/qt/qtipcserver.cpp, there's an #ifdef MAC_OSX; add BSD there
381 2012-07-06 12:25:34 <sipa> orion: BlueMatt may know more about how to get it working
382 2012-07-06 12:33:04 <tgs3> jeremias: lol apple.
383 2012-07-06 12:33:11 <tgs3> why people keep using apple still
384 2012-07-06 12:33:17 <sipa> it's shiny!
385 2012-07-06 12:34:04 <BlueMatt> orion: did commenting out the ipc stuff get you back to 0 cpu?
386 2012-07-06 12:34:07 <jeremias> well, sorry for breaking the "bitcoin is only meant for linux users" rule
387 2012-07-06 12:34:15 <BlueMatt> or reasonable
388 2012-07-06 12:40:25 <jeremias> or more general rule of open source, "ignore average joes"
389 2012-07-06 12:40:38 Karmaon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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393 2012-07-06 12:42:09 <jeremias> http://www.bgr.com/2012/07/02/iphone-market-share-june-2012-android-blackberry/ according to this, iOS has 65% market share from the smartphone/tablet market
394 2012-07-06 12:42:35 <BlueMatt> yes, apple-centric site says iOs has 65% market share...
395 2012-07-06 12:42:45 <sipa> i'm sure that for some market, it does
396 2012-07-06 12:42:55 <sipa> and ignoring it would be stupid
397 2012-07-06 12:42:59 <sipa> and blind
398 2012-07-06 12:43:11 <BlueMatt> hey, if we could get bitcoin clients on iOS, we would
399 2012-07-06 12:43:11 <jeremias> well, whatever, even if the market share would be only 10%, it would be fairly significant
400 2012-07-06 12:43:15 <BlueMatt> you cant blame us...
401 2012-07-06 12:43:23 <sipa> of course
402 2012-07-06 12:43:27 <sipa> jeremias: sure
403 2012-07-06 12:44:10 <BlueMatt> <jeremias> well, sorry for breaking the "bitcoin is only meant for linux users" rule <---uhhh...no we support all major oses
404 2012-07-06 12:44:22 <jeremias> BlueMatt: I don't blame the devs, I just dislike this general negative attitude towards iOS users
405 2012-07-06 12:46:09 <BlueMatt> there isnt a negative attitude towards iOS users in general, its targeted at apple, but apple doesnt go to bitcointalk.org, so people just yell at iOS users
406 2012-07-06 12:46:54 <sipa> to be honest, i have more of a problem with some iOS users than with Apple :)
407 2012-07-06 12:47:27 <BlueMatt> there are some, but I dont think there is a hate of iOS users in general
408 2012-07-06 12:47:41 <sipa> go visit an android forum :D
409 2012-07-06 12:48:01 <BlueMatt> (in the bitcoin community)
410 2012-07-06 12:48:01 <jeremias> well, I like practical approach
411 2012-07-06 12:48:10 <jeremias> it is better to have some solution than no solution at all
412 2012-07-06 12:48:14 <sipa> sure, people buy what works for them
413 2012-07-06 12:48:37 <jeremias> and when iOS solution is discussed, always some troll "lol n00bs use android" pops up
414 2012-07-06 12:49:10 <sipa> and that certainly works in both directions
415 2012-07-06 12:49:18 <BlueMatt> welcome to the internet...trolls exist
416 2012-07-06 12:50:10 <BlueMatt> someone should update bitcoin-js-remote, I used to use it to manage a wallet on iPhone >1 year ago, btw
417 2012-07-06 12:51:10 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
418 2012-07-06 12:52:34 <sipa> dang, signrawtransaction got merged, now i have to port it to ultraprune :(
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422 2012-07-06 12:58:18 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: care to setup a pull with those extracted duplicate GetHash() removals before we forget them?
423 2012-07-06 12:59:33 <gmaxwell> sipa: fwiw, my valgrind run on ultraprune finally finished.
424 2012-07-06 12:59:41 <gmaxwell> and the point where it dies is
425 2012-07-06 12:59:42 <gmaxwell> bitcoind: main.cpp:1275: bool CBlock::DisconnectBlock(CBlockIndex*, CCoinsView&): Assertion `blockUndo.vtxundo.size() + 1 == vtx.size()' failed.
426 2012-07-06 13:01:22 <gmaxwell> ls
427 2012-07-06 13:02:58 <sipa> gmaxwell: already fixed, i'm rebasing now
428 2012-07-06 13:03:22 <sipa> gmaxwell: but no other valgrind errors?
429 2012-07-06 13:06:36 <Vitas> 2!~kvirc@ip4-95-82-130-77.cust.nbox.cz|guys a question: where can I see my BTC withdrawal address?
430 2012-07-06 13:07:40 Karmaon__ has joined
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432 2012-07-06 13:08:02 <sipa> Vitas|2: what do you mean by withdrawal address?
433 2012-07-06 13:08:56 <ersi> sipa: He's cross-posting over #bitcoin and #bitcoin-dev
434 2012-07-06 13:09:38 <gmaxwell> sipa: ~40% time in gethash().
435 2012-07-06 13:09:51 <sipa> gmaxwell: interesting
436 2012-07-06 13:11:45 <gmaxwell> https://people.xiph.org/~greg/ultraprune_profile.png though it's a bit hard to see there becuase it's scatterd all over.
437 2012-07-06 13:13:28 <gmaxwell> Though keep in mind this is an O0 build, which distorts things a bit.
438 2012-07-06 13:14:14 enquirer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
439 2012-07-06 13:17:10 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
440 2012-07-06 13:25:48 <Vitas> 2!~kvirc@ip4-95-82-130-77.cust.nbox.cz|I don't know :-] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83904.0 step 2
441 2012-07-06 13:26:14 <sipa> Vitas|2: ah, an address to withdraw to
442 2012-07-06 13:26:25 <sipa> Vitas|2: go to receive coins, and request a new receive address
443 2012-07-06 13:30:08 <Vitas> 2!~kvirc@ip4-95-82-130-77.cust.nbox.cz|of coures. thx
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450 2012-07-06 13:53:05 <makomk> Hmmmm. Which testnet version's the faucet on?
451 2012-07-06 13:55:43 Keverw has joined
452 2012-07-06 13:59:14 <sipa> 2, i think
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454 2012-07-06 13:59:50 <sipa> gmaxwell: ultraprune updated
455 2012-07-06 14:06:59 gavinandresen has joined
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467 2012-07-06 14:29:57 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
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469 2012-07-06 14:31:47 bitinsta1t is now known as bitinstant
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471 2012-07-06 14:36:14 <gmaxwell> makomk: if you need some v3 coins let me know.
472 2012-07-06 14:38:01 <makomk> gmaxwell: actually, if you could send some testnet3 coins to n1yyBXnMz3ae1FuAyyPU37FHDjeTPShyMM that'd be handy, thanks!
473 2012-07-06 14:40:18 <gmaxwell> makomk: k. done.
474 2012-07-06 14:40:26 <makomk> Thanks!
475 2012-07-06 14:43:26 wasabi has joined
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482 2012-07-06 15:02:16 p0s has joined
483 2012-07-06 15:04:37 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
484 2012-07-06 15:04:38 <gribble> 187805
485 2012-07-06 15:08:00 Kiba has joined
486 2012-07-06 15:08:04 <Kiba> hey hey hey
487 2012-07-06 15:10:04 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
488 2012-07-06 15:12:04 <sipa> gmaxwell: just imported a blk0001.dat file up to 187711 blocks in 31 minutes
489 2012-07-06 15:12:36 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: I think we can go ahead and push #1525, at least?
490 2012-07-06 15:12:45 <jgarzik> sipa gmaxwell: ^
491 2012-07-06 15:13:03 <jgarzik> treat v1 tx as non-standard; warn if blocks > known ver
492 2012-07-06 15:13:22 <sipa> why is it closed?
493 2012-07-06 15:14:13 igetgames__ is now known as igetgames
494 2012-07-06 15:15:40 <jgarzik> sipa: it looks like all commits were moved to #1526
495 2012-07-06 15:16:06 Leezyist has joined
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497 2012-07-06 15:25:13 <jgarzik> luke-jr: what is the status of bip 19? withdrawn?
498 2012-07-06 15:30:27 <luke-jr> jgarzik: Draft presently; not sure if it has any need though, given the BIP 16 rule changes
499 2012-07-06 15:31:20 <luke-jr> perhaps it should become Deferred or Withdrawn
500 2012-07-06 15:38:32 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: I rebased 1526, forgot that I had 1525 open....
501 2012-07-06 15:51:33 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gavinandresen reopened pull request 1525 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1525>
502 2012-07-06 15:51:55 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: ... and then I pulled the rebased commits
503 2012-07-06 15:52:26 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: groovy gravy
504 2012-07-06 15:52:30 BlueMattBot has quit ()
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506 2012-07-06 15:53:47 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: BIP looks good, my only nit is "block height" should be defined-- maybe just "(where the genesis block is height=0)"
507 2012-07-06 15:54:25 <sipa> i wouldn't call the value in the coinbase a nonce - its value is completely deterministic
508 2012-07-06 15:55:24 * sipa just imported the entire blockchain in 22 minutes
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510 2012-07-06 15:55:33 <gavinandresen> show-off
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513 2012-07-06 16:00:05 <gmaxwell> amiller: on the subject of crazy redesigns, if the tx-in ID used in transactions was txout-scripthash||txnhash||index, then a plain txout tree would support etotheipi's address oriented lookups. Kinda obvious but I only just realized it.
514 2012-07-06 16:03:16 pickett has joined
515 2012-07-06 16:03:42 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, sipa: updated https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0034
516 2012-07-06 16:03:55 <jgarzik> You're welcome to edit it yourselves, too. Might be faster for minor edits... I'm not actively editing.
517 2012-07-06 16:04:55 david3x3x3 has quit (Quit: rebooting)
518 2012-07-06 16:04:56 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: you don't want to be Author of that BIP?
519 2012-07-06 16:05:29 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: I just wanted to exercise to BIP process. You are the author of the change itself, and I had very little to do with the change.
520 2012-07-06 16:05:39 <jgarzik> *exercise the
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534 2012-07-06 16:42:03 <OneEyed> Hi. I've got a question for which I couldn't find an answer with my (admittedly limited) search
535 2012-07-06 16:42:16 <OneEyed> In a transaction, inputs are consumed in full, right? No amount is indicated, only the amount for every outputs
536 2012-07-06 16:43:07 <gmaxwell> OneEyed: correct. any imbalance is fee.
537 2012-07-06 16:43:08 <OneEyed> In this case, what happens if an address listed as an input receives some bitcoins in a new transaction, and this new transaction is included in the block chain before the spending transaction? Wouldn't that put the extra money just received as a fee for the miner?
538 2012-07-06 16:43:46 <gmaxwell> Bitcoin is not system of balances. The protocol has no concept of balances. There are only transactions (coins). These are the inputs.
539 2012-07-06 16:43:57 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
540 2012-07-06 16:43:58 <gribble> 187812
541 2012-07-06 16:44:08 <Diablo-D3> one does not have a balance
542 2012-07-06 16:44:11 <Diablo-D3> one has a key ring.
543 2012-07-06 16:44:48 <gmaxwell> So if you get payments of 1,3,5 to an address... you might use 1,3 in order to pay 3.5 btc to someone.. and then take the remainder as a change output. But the 5btc payment you had before is untouched.
544 2012-07-06 16:45:11 <OneEyed> Diablo-D3& gmaxwell: yes, I understand that. But if we have: A -> B (1 BTC) already in the block chain, then B -> C (1 BTC) is emitted as a transaction
545 2012-07-06 16:45:33 <OneEyed> What happens if D -> B (1 BTC) is emitted, included in the block chain, before B -> C (1 BTC) gets a chance to get included
546 2012-07-06 16:45:55 <Diablo-D3> OneEyed: you cant send 1 BTC
547 2012-07-06 16:46:00 <OneEyed> We would then have: A -> B (1 BTC), D -> B (1 BTC), B -> C (1 BTC) which is obviously not what the person would want
548 2012-07-06 16:46:25 <Diablo-D3> you can only send an encrypted message to someone else's public key
549 2012-07-06 16:46:31 <Diablo-D3> s/encrypted//
550 2012-07-06 16:46:38 <Diablo-D3> (its signed, sorry)
551 2012-07-06 16:47:00 <luke-jr> [16:41:42] <luke-jr> BLOCK
552 2012-07-06 16:47:01 <luke-jr> [16:42:16] <ljrbot> Blk 0000000000000959fafe2faba9fdb2f3f4fc7a69ef5d4ee3f849a98235fa2376: 1E7cYXQx8upvFRw3kaikP8tQKMeFqFMJ86 14.4899572 BTC, 1N4c8rFC5okV9GVG7by9AgXwyiHBMcfbGS 13.54313593 BTC, 1ASNjJjUou6RPkmP81nJUuhbZDkxAaHQhX 9.41527403 BTC, 16BxRMTpQqY9bjhwwuM5J7R1QxQYzPdcJi 0.75960363 BTC, 1PT2dTzFnYaW2jqAuttAuUUdtS3LzJBrmh
553 2012-07-06 16:47:09 <luke-jr> humans faster than Bitcoin network! :P
554 2012-07-06 16:47:11 <OneEyed> Diablo-D3: yes, I understand, but how is that related to my question? It is only about the ordering of transactions in the block chain, and how they could change the perceived balance only
555 2012-07-06 16:47:45 <Diablo-D3> OneEyed: well, thats the thing, you dont have a balance, you have a key ring
556 2012-07-06 16:47:49 moartr4dez has joined
557 2012-07-06 16:47:50 <jgarzik> OneEyed: bitcoin guarantees that transactions included in blocks always include their dependencies, in that block or in previous blocks
558 2012-07-06 16:48:08 <OneEyed> jgarzik: oh, that's it, thanks!
559 2012-07-06 16:48:08 <jgarzik> OneEyed: otherwise the transaction is not considered "connected"
560 2012-07-06 16:48:14 <OneEyed> jgarzik: makes perfect sense
561 2012-07-06 16:48:15 <Diablo-D3> yeah what jgarzik said
562 2012-07-06 16:48:41 <OneEyed> so in fact it's not B -> C (1 BTC), but rather B (as known in block XXX) -> C (1 BTC)
563 2012-07-06 16:48:50 <Diablo-D3> OneEyed: exactly
564 2012-07-06 16:48:56 <Diablo-D3> transactions use specifically named coins
565 2012-07-06 16:48:57 <OneEyed> I couldn't find this info in various presentation I found around
566 2012-07-06 16:49:20 <OneEyed> Diablo-D3: indeed
567 2012-07-06 16:49:22 <Diablo-D3> a coin is basically named "5 BTC sent to addresss xxxx in transaction yyy in block zzz"
568 2012-07-06 16:49:32 <Diablo-D3> the system doesnt really care that it contains 5 btc
569 2012-07-06 16:50:48 <OneEyed> Ok, so if B received 1 + 1 BTC, to spend those 2 BTC we will necessarily have 2 separate inputs
570 2012-07-06 16:51:40 MrTiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
571 2012-07-06 16:52:06 <Diablo-D3> yes
572 2012-07-06 16:52:13 <Diablo-D3> and the inputs dont need to consume the whole thing
573 2012-07-06 16:52:14 MrTiggr has joined
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577 2012-07-06 16:52:33 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin produces a change input that just sends it back to you
578 2012-07-06 16:52:40 <Diablo-D3> err output
579 2012-07-06 16:52:43 <OneEyed> Well, that's consuming the whole thing
580 2012-07-06 16:52:46 <OneEyed> Ok, outputs :)
581 2012-07-06 16:52:55 <lianj> the bitcoin client does
582 2012-07-06 16:53:04 <Diablo-D3> lianj: _all_ bitcoin clients do
583 2012-07-06 16:53:09 MrTiggr has joined
584 2012-07-06 16:53:14 <lianj> hehe, lets hope
585 2012-07-06 16:53:16 <Diablo-D3> and since we only have one real client, :D
586 2012-07-06 16:53:33 <OneEyed> Even Armory is backed by bitcoind at this time, right
587 2012-07-06 16:54:11 <lianj> right, just saying, bitcoin does produce it, your or client has to do it
588 2012-07-06 16:54:17 <lianj> *doesnt
589 2012-07-06 16:54:34 <lianj> but true, thats nitpicking. sorry
590 2012-07-06 16:55:13 <OneEyed> lianj: it depends - if you use "bitcoind sendtoaddress" from your client, bitcoind will take care of it for you from what I can see
591 2012-07-06 16:55:40 <lianj> right
592 2012-07-06 16:56:59 <lianj> although you have little control of what change address to use
593 2012-07-06 16:57:41 coingenuity has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
594 2012-07-06 16:58:04 RazielZ has joined
595 2012-07-06 16:59:20 <OneEyed> lianj: well, you also have little control over the inputs you use if you let bitcoind build the transaction as it wishes
596 2012-07-06 16:59:59 bonks has joined
597 2012-07-06 17:00:00 <OneEyed> So as far as the risk of connecting several of your addresses is concerned, it already exists, and using possibly the same change address doesn't complicate things much for you
598 2012-07-06 17:00:37 guruvan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
599 2012-07-06 17:00:43 guruvan_ is now known as guruvan
600 2012-07-06 17:00:51 <OneEyed> The only choices seem to either use different wallets, or exercise a fine control of the inputs you use for a transaction in addition to the change address
601 2012-07-06 17:01:07 guruvan_ has joined
602 2012-07-06 17:02:03 <jgarzik> OneEyed: bitcoin's recently merged "raw tx" JSON-RPC API gives you full control of inputs. The default is to permit bitcoin to select the inputs based on various hueristicsz.
603 2012-07-06 17:02:18 <OneEyed> jgarzik: yeah, I've seen that on bitcoin talk, maybe from you
604 2012-07-06 17:03:32 Zarutian has joined
605 2012-07-06 17:04:17 <OneEyed> jgarzik: that just made me think: let's assume that people send you lots of small transactions and don't include a fee (100 transactions of 0.01 BTC, 0 fee). Making a transaction with those 100 transactions as input and one address of yours as output will let you pay the fee once, and have all the transactions included in the next block chain with a higher probability
606 2012-07-06 17:04:59 <OneEyed> (because the miner would have to include the dependencies while including the transaction bringing a fee)
607 2012-07-06 17:04:59 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
608 2012-07-06 17:07:24 <jgarzik> OneEyed: it is good for the network, if we expire 100 old inputs, and create 1 new output
609 2012-07-06 17:08:00 <jgarzik> OneEyed: note that there are several factors that wind up discouraging micropayments, so tiny transactions may be considered spam if too small (and no fee paid)
610 2012-07-06 17:08:54 <OneEyed> jgarzik: right (about the consolidation). I've also read about some plans to have a meta-chain containing a summary of unspent outputs, that would be beneficial here too.
611 2012-07-06 17:11:53 <gmaxwell> OneEyed: fee handling is always done in terms of BTC/byte of data in any case. so that kind of batching gaming shouldn't matter.
612 2012-07-06 17:22:34 <bonks> Is bitcoin-qt's transaction list's date column supposed to show the first time any blockchain received it or when my client received it?
613 2012-07-06 17:23:23 RainbowDashh has joined
614 2012-07-06 17:24:40 <gmaxwell> bonks: when your client recieved it.
615 2012-07-06 17:25:10 <bonks> I figured, is it possible to get the time when any blockchain first seen it?
616 2012-07-06 17:25:11 <gmaxwell> bonks: see also https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1393
617 2012-07-06 17:25:42 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
618 2012-07-06 17:26:24 <bonks> I see, thank you
619 2012-07-06 17:26:47 <bonks> I was on vacation and synced up only to see the current date for all transactions, had me confused for a while
620 2012-07-06 17:27:10 <moartr4dez> -rescan ?
621 2012-07-06 17:27:25 <gmaxwell> bonks: yea, its a frequent source of confusion.
622 2012-07-06 17:27:43 <gmaxwell> moartr4dez: no. What he's seeing is the current intentional behavior.
623 2012-07-06 17:28:06 <gmaxwell> moartr4dez: it only shows the time that your software learned of the txn, not some other time.
624 2012-07-06 17:28:07 <bonks> all new transactions*
625 2012-07-06 17:30:49 <bonks> But where is this time stamp stored? The local blockchain or wallet? Sounds like the local blockchain, but I thought all blockchains had to be identical
626 2012-07-06 17:31:52 maaku has joined
627 2012-07-06 17:32:51 <OneEyed> bonks: while I don't have your answer, I know that your client has to do some bookeeping to handle the blockchain. It can well add the timestamp it receives each block at into the local block metadata. That would give a date for all the transactions contained within this block.
628 2012-07-06 17:35:24 <bonks> Hmm, then means my client may display different time stamps depending on the computer I'm on (I use a single wallet on multiple machines with their own blockchain)
629 2012-07-06 17:35:44 <gmaxwell> bonks: it's stored in your local wallet.
630 2012-07-06 17:36:02 <gmaxwell> bonks: using a wallet in multiple places is _sure_ to cause you problems.
631 2012-07-06 17:36:05 <bonks> gmaxwell: In that case it should be the same on any pc then :)
632 2012-07-06 17:36:21 <bonks> I... haven't had any problems. I only load them on one pc at a time.
633 2012-07-06 17:36:24 <gmaxwell> bonks: only if you copy the wallets after the txn arrives.
634 2012-07-06 17:36:25 <gmaxwell> Oh okay.
635 2012-07-06 17:36:27 <gmaxwell> yes, thats fine.
636 2012-07-06 17:36:53 <gmaxwell> Also, as an aside the blockchain _files_ are not the same on different systems.
637 2012-07-06 17:37:21 <bonks> but the blk0001.dat is always the same?
638 2012-07-06 17:37:44 <gmaxwell> No.
639 2012-07-06 17:38:05 <gmaxwell> blk0001.dat has blocks in the order you recieved them and contains orphan blocks.
640 2012-07-06 17:38:16 <gmaxwell> as it is append-only.
641 2012-07-06 17:39:50 <bonks> And all this time I thought they were the same, since complete files were available to download
642 2012-07-06 17:40:07 hexTech has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
643 2012-07-06 17:40:33 Kiba has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
644 2012-07-06 17:41:47 ThomasV has joined
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646 2012-07-06 17:42:39 <gmaxwell> bonks: no, and those files available for download create some systemtic risk for bitcoin. If some cosmic ray corrupts it... and causes a valid txn to be left out of the index, then all nodes bootstrapped off it would fork at once if that txn were spent.
647 2012-07-06 17:43:55 <bonks> Gotcha, that is new to me. Thanks
648 2012-07-06 17:46:40 <OneEyed> gmaxwell: don't miners verify the blocks?
649 2012-07-06 17:47:30 <gmaxwell> OneEyed: if you download a corrupted block database from some website and stick it into your client then you're at the mercy of whatever that site gave you.
650 2012-07-06 17:47:44 <gmaxwell> Normal synchronization doesn't have that problem.
651 2012-07-06 17:47:46 <OneEyed> gmaxwell: and you'll generate invalid transactions
652 2012-07-06 17:48:07 <OneEyed> gmaxwell: so here you're talking about carefully crafted bogus block, not blocks rendered invalid because of a cosmic ray
653 2012-07-06 17:48:21 <gmaxwell> It's easier to have corruption that makes you reject a valid chain in the future, than create invalid transactions yourself.
654 2012-07-06 17:48:34 <gmaxwell> No. I was talking about exactly what I was talking about, thank you very much. ;)
655 2012-07-06 17:49:41 <OneEyed> gmaxwell: well, the only problem would be if a bogus block chain was produced, longer than the legitimate one that the client would eventually acquire from the network, wouldn't it?
656 2012-07-06 17:49:41 <gmaxwell> A cosmic ray flips a bit in the database you've downloaded. So now there is a [baaaaaa] transaction in the txout list, instead of [aaaaaaa]. When someone spends aaaaaaa all nodes with that identically corrupted database will reject the block mining it and all future blocks forever.
657 2012-07-06 17:49:54 <gmaxwell> No. Thats not correct.
658 2012-07-06 17:50:12 <gmaxwell> Bitcoin does not use the longest chain. It uses the longest _valid_ chain.
659 2012-07-06 17:50:31 <gmaxwell> And as far as your concerned any chain with aaaaaaa in its history is invalid. So you'll ignore it.
660 2012-07-06 17:51:01 <OneEyed> So does that mean that you will refuse valid copies of the corrupt block coming from the network?
661 2012-07-06 17:51:24 <OneEyed> Because the block is invalid after the bit is flipped
662 2012-07-06 17:52:02 <gmaxwell> OneEyed: Yes. Which is why this is only a risk for nodes which have pulling a prefabbed block database off a website and started a node with that.
663 2012-07-06 17:52:26 <OneEyed> gmaxwell: yeah, sure, and which don't verify the block chain, I agree
664 2012-07-06 17:52:55 <gmaxwell> Then what were we discussing? :)
665 2012-07-06 17:53:44 <OneEyed> gmaxwell: I guess we agree - what I was saying and thought you didn't agree with was that if a client checks the integrity of its blocks from time to time, it will discard any corrupt block and reacquire a correct version from the network
666 2012-07-06 17:54:39 <OneEyed> Only clients blindly trusting an outside source to do the integrity check for them will have a problem. On the one hand, they deserve it, as they don't want to check them. On the other hand, not all nodes have the computing power to do this storage and verification.
667 2012-07-06 17:54:44 <gmaxwell> Ah, the software does not do that. Also, it's insufficient... the blocks aren't enoughâ you need a correct index and it's currently much harder to validate the index than the blocks themselves.
668 2012-07-06 17:54:45 rdponticelli has joined
669 2012-07-06 17:54:56 <OneEyed> (bbl, afk for 15 minutes, food fetching)
670 2012-07-06 17:55:40 gfinn has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
671 2012-07-06 17:57:15 <gmaxwell> OneEyed: 'not all nodes have the computing power' is mostly BS currently. You could validate the whole chain on a smartphone in a day or two, and no one runs a full node on a smartphone (except luke? :) ). It's just impatience and the fact that the current software isn't usable until its done (e.g if this was in the background no one would care much)
672 2012-07-06 18:00:29 darkee has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
673 2012-07-06 18:01:03 <gmaxwell> OneEyed: in any case, my only point there was that currently the downloads risk fork creation. I'm not even concerned about single nodes getting broken. The fact that a whole bunch would reject at the same point means they would start building a parallel network which was processing transactions too.
674 2012-07-06 18:01:25 darkee has joined
675 2012-07-06 18:11:21 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I don't have a smartphone
676 2012-07-06 18:12:58 gfinn has joined
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682 2012-07-06 18:19:23 <orion> I recompiled without IPC support, and bitcoin still uses 100% CPU.
683 2012-07-06 18:20:23 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
684 2012-07-06 18:20:24 <BlueMatt> any chance you could track down a backtrace of the thread which is using so much cpu?
685 2012-07-06 18:20:30 <orion> But instead of its state being "CPU7", its state is "nanslp". Testing in gdb confirms that its waiting around in nanosleep.
686 2012-07-06 18:23:57 <BlueMatt> what does gdb show on the backtrace of the thread which is using cpu?
687 2012-07-06 18:24:04 <orion> #2 0x000000000051bcf3 in boost::interprocess::interprocess_semaphore::wait (this=0x81801e090) at interprocess_semaphore.hpp:33
688 2012-07-06 18:24:04 <orion> #3 0x000000000051093a in ThreadOpenConnections2 (parg=0x0) at src/net.cpp:1215
689 2012-07-06 18:24:48 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
690 2012-07-06 18:25:37 <orion> I'm assuming that polls and nanosleeps do not use CPU.
691 2012-07-06 18:25:42 <BlueMatt> uhh...what version is this?
692 2012-07-06 18:26:12 imsaguy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
693 2012-07-06 18:26:16 Keverw has joined
694 2012-07-06 18:26:26 <orion> BlueMatt: 0.6.3-dirty-beta
695 2012-07-06 18:26:45 Maged has joined
696 2012-07-06 18:27:01 <BlueMatt> orion: so its just 0.6.3 with the ipc disabled in src/qt/bitcoin.cpp?
697 2012-07-06 18:27:52 <BlueMatt> orion: can you pastebin the backtrace on all the threads?
698 2012-07-06 18:27:52 <orion> It's 0.6.3 with IPC disabled in src/qt/qtipcserver.cpp
699 2012-07-06 18:27:57 <BlueMatt> ok
700 2012-07-06 18:28:07 <orion> I can do that, standby.
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704 2012-07-06 18:32:09 <orion> BlueMatt: https://gist.github.com/70a333646d8ec2ee7aaa
705 2012-07-06 18:35:00 <BlueMatt> orion: odd, none of those functions should ever use any significant cpu...you are sure its the ThreadOpenConnections one?
706 2012-07-06 18:35:40 <orion> No.
707 2012-07-06 18:36:20 hnz has joined
708 2012-07-06 18:37:23 <BlueMatt> can you check with htop?
709 2012-07-06 18:37:38 <BlueMatt> Im sure top has an option, but I know htop's default is to show each thread individually
710 2012-07-06 18:38:14 <BlueMatt> or apparently start top with -H
711 2012-07-06 18:41:02 <orion> hmm
712 2012-07-06 18:41:11 <orion> I all the threads have the same name.
713 2012-07-06 18:41:20 <BlueMatt> what about id?
714 2012-07-06 18:41:23 <orion> I found teh thread with top -H, but I'm not sure what I would look for.
715 2012-07-06 18:41:42 <orion> PID?
716 2012-07-06 18:41:46 <BlueMatt> do that not have an id column that is unique?
717 2012-07-06 18:42:07 <BlueMatt> dont know if it will show on pid, is there a tid?
718 2012-07-06 18:42:47 <orion> PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE C TIME WCPU COMMAND
719 2012-07-06 18:42:47 <orion> 4818 alex 105 2 437M 166M CPU5 5 29:06 99.66% bitcoin-qt{bitcoin-qt}
720 2012-07-06 18:43:02 <BlueMatt> is PID no unique per thread?
721 2012-07-06 18:43:16 <orion> Correct. the PID is not unique.
722 2012-07-06 18:43:49 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
723 2012-07-06 18:44:03 <BlueMatt> darn, they are unique on linux...
724 2012-07-06 18:44:05 <BlueMatt> try htop
725 2012-07-06 18:44:16 <orion> I don't have htop, and I don't think it is supported.
726 2012-07-06 18:44:38 <orion> I am on FreeBSD
727 2012-07-06 18:44:59 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: the TID is unique on Linux, but the PID is the same technically
728 2012-07-06 18:45:01 <BlueMatt> ah, didnt realize htop uses /proc...
729 2012-07-06 18:45:11 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: yea, but in top it shows TID on linux
730 2012-07-06 18:45:18 <luke-jr> i c
731 2012-07-06 18:45:18 <BlueMatt> (under PID, if you have H)
732 2012-07-06 18:45:52 ThomasV has joined
733 2012-07-06 18:45:55 <luke-jr> orion: there is a pullreq with thread naming, might merge that
734 2012-07-06 18:46:11 <luke-jr> but you might need to port it too - I commented on a suggestion how in the pullreq
735 2012-07-06 18:46:55 <BlueMatt> odd...looks like there is no way to get per-thread cpu usage in FreeBSD, at least afaict
736 2012-07-06 18:47:09 <BlueMatt> or...google isnt showing anything obvious on the first page
737 2012-07-06 18:47:39 <orion> BlueMatt: top -H works.
738 2012-07-06 18:47:47 <BlueMatt> but its not showing tids
739 2012-07-06 18:47:49 <orion> I can get the thread, but they are all named the same so I don't know.
740 2012-07-06 18:48:06 <BlueMatt> maybe ps can do the trick, check the man page
741 2012-07-06 18:48:12 rdponticelli has joined
742 2012-07-06 18:50:05 MiningBuddy- has joined
743 2012-07-06 18:52:41 <orion> I have a thread address.
744 2012-07-06 18:52:53 <BlueMatt> which is it?
745 2012-07-06 18:52:58 MiningBuddy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
746 2012-07-06 18:53:30 <orion> No idea: fffffe0284a6d470
747 2012-07-06 18:53:58 <BlueMatt> uhh...well thats not a thread id...not sure what that is...
748 2012-07-06 18:54:20 <orion> "tdaddr"
749 2012-07-06 18:54:22 <orion> Oh, I need a LWP.
750 2012-07-06 18:54:23 MiningBuddy- is now known as MiningBuddy
751 2012-07-06 18:54:27 <BlueMatt> yea
752 2012-07-06 18:54:49 <orion> 106183
753 2012-07-06 18:55:07 <BlueMatt> odd...yep it was the ThreadOpenConnections one
754 2012-07-06 18:55:16 <sipa> orion: wait, this is 0.6.3
755 2012-07-06 18:55:19 <BlueMatt> makes no sense though, maybe freebsd's sched_yield is broken...
756 2012-07-06 18:55:30 <sipa> afaik that uses ipc for sync
757 2012-07-06 18:55:37 <orion> sipa: I removed it.
758 2012-07-06 18:55:47 <orion> Or, at least I thought I did.
759 2012-07-06 18:55:48 <sipa> oh, no you used git heaf
760 2012-07-06 18:55:52 <sipa> never mind
761 2012-07-06 18:55:56 <BlueMatt> sipa: its using 100% cpu in boost::interprocess::interprocess_semaphore::wait
762 2012-07-06 18:55:59 <BlueMatt> sipa: no, its 0.6.3
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765 2012-07-06 18:56:22 <sipa> go to sync.h, and change the ifdef osx there to bsd
766 2012-07-06 18:56:23 <orion> I switched to the 0.6.3 branch and modified src/qt/qtipcserver.cpp
767 2012-07-06 18:56:24 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: You have an N8xx though, IIRC.
768 2012-07-06 18:57:00 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: which isn't a phone :p
769 2012-07-06 18:57:01 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
770 2012-07-06 18:57:16 <orion> Where is sync.h?
771 2012-07-06 18:57:33 <BlueMatt> src/sync.h
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774 2012-07-06 18:58:21 <orion> I... don't have that file?
775 2012-07-06 19:02:23 <orion> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/tree/0.6.3/src
776 2012-07-06 19:02:32 <orion> Yup -- doesn't exist here either.
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788 2012-07-06 19:29:33 <luke-jr> orion: it's not part of 0.6.x
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804 2012-07-06 20:51:48 <copumpkin> anyone have an order of magnitude for the number of distinct source addresses in the blockchain?
805 2012-07-06 20:53:22 <gmaxwell> >1
806 2012-07-06 20:53:51 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, win
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815 2012-07-06 21:04:31 <helo> distinct source address == unspent output?
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829 2012-07-06 21:43:35 <gavinandresen> Idea for a tool to exercise the new raw transactions API: Write a tool that splits up any really big-value transactions in your wallet into smaller inputs, using sends-to-self.
830 2012-07-06 21:44:57 <Kiba> anybody knows of my bitcoin extension for chrome?
831 2012-07-06 21:45:05 <gavinandresen> e.g. if you have a 500 BTC input but you normally spend just a few tens of bitcoins, you might want to split it up so if you make a couple of transactions next month on the same day they use nice, aged inputs
832 2012-07-06 21:45:07 <Kiba> it makes spending bitcoin and seeing your balance a bit convenient
833 2012-07-06 21:46:10 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, i imagined you saying that as if you were a wine snob
834 2012-07-06 21:46:29 <gavinandresen> I didn't say they were aged in oak, with a hint of melon
835 2012-07-06 21:46:48 <phantomcircuit> that's now how im imagining you say it
836 2012-07-06 21:47:47 <helo> so the idea is that the splitting transaction doesn't need to be confirmed quickly, because you probably won't be buying anything with it soon?
837 2012-07-06 21:47:57 <gavinandresen> right
838 2012-07-06 21:48:30 <gavinandresen> helps privacy, too, because if you start with one 500BTC input and there is a long chain of "split off a few bitcoins" transactions then that's probably one person spending it down.
839 2012-07-06 21:49:52 minimoose has joined
840 2012-07-06 21:53:01 <Kiba> gavinandresen: are you working on bitcoin full time?
841 2012-07-06 21:53:12 <gavinandresen> yup
842 2012-07-06 21:53:21 <Kiba> where your income comes from?
843 2012-07-06 21:53:27 <OneEyed> That could work as a background mixer: if you have enough aged inputs of various sizes, you can split some of them from time to time for no reason
844 2012-07-06 21:53:27 <gavinandresen> nope
845 2012-07-06 21:53:35 <Kiba> you have no income?
846 2012-07-06 21:53:50 <gavinandresen> i have savings and a patient wife
847 2012-07-06 21:54:03 <Kiba> eventually that saving will run out.
848 2012-07-06 21:54:16 <helo> nothing like doing what you love
849 2012-07-06 21:54:18 <Kiba> how much of a runway you have?
850 2012-07-06 21:54:32 <OneEyed> Kiba: except if it's kept in BTC and the interests rate are enough to keep it running when converted to FIAT
851 2012-07-06 21:54:32 <Kiba> I am guessing a few companies could probably sponsor you
852 2012-07-06 21:54:34 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: I think the opposite is more interesting, merging small inputs. Since there is a somewhat regular cadance of users complaing about transactions failing after they've had months of bitdust payments.
853 2012-07-06 21:54:58 <Kiba> OneEyed: he didn't say it's kept in bitcoin
854 2012-07-06 21:55:04 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: good idea, a small-payment merger python or bash or ruby tool would be spiffy
855 2012-07-06 21:55:13 <OneEyed> Kiba: he didn't say it's not :)
856 2012-07-06 21:55:32 <gavinandresen> ... designed to run over a few days or weeks, so priority builds up and you don't pay tons of fees maybe
857 2012-07-06 21:55:52 <gmaxwell> Unfortunately something external couldn't easily do the taint analysis that the coinselect patch does. e.g. only merge from addresses which are already cross contaminated.
858 2012-07-06 21:56:00 <Kiba> how come the Satoshi clients seemly highly undeveloped compared to other clients
859 2012-07-06 21:56:08 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: it could actually include one large input (if you have one) in order to pay the way priority wise.
860 2012-07-06 21:56:11 <Kiba> other clients apperently have lot of neat features that the satoshi client have
861 2012-07-06 21:56:31 <gmaxwell> Kiba: ... because they don't have to worry about actually working, or supporting the whole bitcoin protocol.
862 2012-07-06 21:56:33 <gavinandresen> Kiba: because we try to concentrate on low-level boring stuff you never see, like DoS protection
863 2012-07-06 21:57:00 <gmaxwell> Or not breaking for existing users. Or supporting mining .. or ... :)
864 2012-07-06 21:57:10 <Kiba> gavinandresen: so..how many months you have before your saving run out?
865 2012-07-06 21:57:29 <gmaxwell> We also usually don't have any code to copy from. :)
866 2012-07-06 21:57:39 <Kiba> The SEEN and...the UNSEEN.
867 2012-07-06 21:57:49 <Kiba> clearly, the UNSEEN are not as appreciative
868 2012-07-06 21:57:52 <gavinandresen> Kiba: I dunno. The real end-of-runway is my wife's patience
869 2012-07-06 21:58:07 <Kiba> does your wife still think of bitcoin as "fake money"?
870 2012-07-06 21:58:20 <gavinandresen> no, she's stopped calling it 'my pretend money project'
871 2012-07-06 21:58:36 <gmaxwell> In any case, since the beginning of the year we've doubled the size of the project LOC wise.
872 2012-07-06 21:58:42 <gavinandresen> wahoo!
873 2012-07-06 21:59:00 <OneEyed> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to remove
874 2012-07-06 21:59:10 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: I think a fair bit of that is unit tests....
875 2012-07-06 21:59:12 <gmaxwell> We started from a fairly small level.
876 2012-07-06 21:59:23 * Kiba would be more impressied if the project LOC were reduced by a factor of 200%
877 2012-07-06 21:59:38 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: thats still real forward movementâ actually better than non-test code because it doesn't bloat the actual software. :)
878 2012-07-06 21:59:38 <Kiba> s/impressied/impressed
879 2012-07-06 22:00:12 <Kiba> I think if Gavin asked for donation to keep him running, I am sure a lot of bitcoiners will come forward
880 2012-07-06 22:00:17 <gmaxwell> being negative 200kloc might be a little tricky.
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882 2012-07-06 22:01:01 <Kiba> well, I guess I blundered
883 2012-07-06 22:01:31 <gavinandresen> test/ is 3K LOC, src/qt is 10K, src/ is 20K, so I'm wrong, unit tests are still pretty small
884 2012-07-06 22:02:08 <Kiba> I hope when Satoshi look at us, he doesn't think "You guys suck!"
885 2012-07-06 22:02:45 <gmaxwell> well I as going by the Oholo numbers, perhaps they're on crack
886 2012-07-06 22:02:51 * gmaxwell scounts with sloccount
887 2012-07-06 22:02:55 <Kiba> to be honest, it does seems that bitcoiners are often an embarrassment
888 2012-07-06 22:02:58 <Kiba> to themsleves
889 2012-07-06 22:04:39 <Kiba> Ohloh.net still alive?
890 2012-07-06 22:04:55 <OneEyed> Kiba: sure, and used by many people as far as I know
891 2012-07-06 22:05:04 <helo> it's pretty easy to be misunderstood when working on something nobody understands
892 2012-07-06 22:05:27 <phantomcircuit> lol
893 2012-07-06 22:05:30 <gmaxwell> aw, thats less impress ohloh is on drugs. Only a 26% increase since janaury actually.
894 2012-07-06 22:05:40 <Kiba> misunderstood?
895 2012-07-06 22:05:56 <OneEyed> gmaxwell: you also get some graphs on github, but those seem on crack too; total sloc were negative at some time: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/graphs/code-frequency
896 2012-07-06 22:06:04 <gmaxwell> hahah
897 2012-07-06 22:06:23 <Kiba> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91734.0
898 2012-07-06 22:06:28 <OneEyed> Oh, no, you have to use the right axis for those :)
899 2012-07-06 22:07:06 <Kiba> I fixed up the chrome extension. I found it useful but apperently nobody else find it useful.
900 2012-07-06 22:07:12 <gmaxwell> ohloh didn't have graphs a week ago when I kicked it to the right repository url.
901 2012-07-06 22:07:48 <gmaxwell> OneEyed: odd it agrees with ohloh and not with sloccount.
902 2012-07-06 22:08:05 <Kiba> code frequency looks like total subtract and add
903 2012-07-06 22:08:07 <OneEyed> Kiba: you have to find people using bitcoins + the bitcoin program locally, intersected with people using chrome
904 2012-07-06 22:08:10 <Kiba> not total codebase
905 2012-07-06 22:08:12 <gmaxwell> oh duh okay, it must be counting whitespace and such.
906 2012-07-06 22:08:26 <gavinandresen> it's not my fault, if I'm reading https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/graphs/contributors right I've deleted more code than I've added
907 2012-07-06 22:08:30 <Kiba> OneEyed: there's lot of people using chrome
908 2012-07-06 22:08:36 <OneEyed> Probably, they say "total lines" indeed, not "total sloc"
909 2012-07-06 22:08:55 <Kiba> and some folks still use the satoshi client if they haven't already migrate to a nify client
910 2012-07-06 22:09:07 <OneEyed> gavinandresen: I exhibit the same behaviour in https://github.com/cgeo/c-geo-opensource/graphs/contributors (first committer)
911 2012-07-06 22:09:29 <gmaxwell> Kiba: what client do you think people are using instead?
912 2012-07-06 22:09:33 <Kiba> I don't have any good idea to make the chrome extension more appealing short of implementing a client in chrome
913 2012-07-06 22:09:39 <gavinandresen> not a fair measure, though, I probably got credit for removing all the wxwidgets code
914 2012-07-06 22:09:41 <OneEyed> -30k SLOC in one year, while being the main contributor to the project, I'm the chief eraser :)
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916 2012-07-06 22:10:13 <Kiba> gmaxwell: I don't know the market share of clients. I am assuming it's been splited into a bunch of desktop clients, various wallet services, etc
917 2012-07-06 22:10:23 <gmaxwell> Kiba: 0_o
918 2012-07-06 22:10:24 <gmaxwell> not at all.
919 2012-07-06 22:10:51 <gmaxwell> I mean, I can't gauge web service use... but on the regular clients they're mostly the reference clients.
920 2012-07-06 22:11:55 <Kiba> ok. but I am not getting anybody saying anything in that particular thread except me
921 2012-07-06 22:11:59 <OneEyed> gmaxwell: how do you measure frontend/backend usage?
922 2012-07-06 22:12:18 <OneEyed> I mean, armory uses bitcoind at the moment, but will probably switch away at some point
923 2012-07-06 22:12:45 <Kiba> Maybe nobody really looks in the development section
924 2012-07-06 22:13:09 <OneEyed> Kiba: indeed, development is probably not the right section if you're targetting end users
925 2012-07-06 22:13:14 <gmaxwell> Kiba: there is a ton of traffic there you may just need to face the possibility that no one cares about your post. ;)
926 2012-07-06 22:13:58 <gmaxwell> OneEyed: etotheipi has been pretty uninterested in implementing the whole protocol, though I've tried to talk him into it!
927 2012-07-06 22:14:27 <gmaxwell> when it comes down to it, 'features' are just a lot more exciting than infrastructure.
928 2012-07-06 22:14:34 <OneEyed> gmaxwell: odd, I know I've only been reading the forums for a few days, but I had the impression that he would love to have the time to do it
929 2012-07-06 22:15:35 <gmaxwell> OneEyed: Perhaps he's just looking for someone to pay him to do it. ::shrugs:: In any case, I think it would be great news.
930 2012-07-06 22:15:38 <Kiba> gmaxwell: I moved the topic to bitcoin discussion to see if I will get more response
931 2012-07-06 22:16:19 * Kiba seems to have the magical ability to make topics that everybody will feel indifferent about
932 2012-07-06 22:17:15 <OneEyed> Kiba: well, a Friday night in July is probably not the best time of the year to find users in front of their computersâ¦
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934 2012-07-06 22:18:13 <Kiba> I released it on Thursday
935 2012-07-06 22:18:19 <Kiba> then I released it on Friday
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937 2012-07-06 22:18:31 <Kiba> every Friday, I update the extension with the latest code
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939 2012-07-06 22:20:01 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: can you log in to ohloh and click the manage button there so it stops saying managed by gregory maxwell just because I was fool enough to hit the button to change a setting? :)
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941 2012-07-06 22:24:32 <ahf> Is https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification the most up-to-date version of the protocol specification or is there something newer?
942 2012-07-06 22:25:03 <gmaxwell> ahf: That page is not an official formal specification.
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944 2012-07-06 22:25:42 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: it's as close as he'll get :p
945 2012-07-06 22:25:48 <ahf> gmaxwell: does such thing exist?
946 2012-07-06 22:25:58 <luke-jr> ahf: there is no such thing as official, so no
947 2012-07-06 22:26:05 <gmaxwell> It's a reasonable attempt but itsn't guaranteed to be complete or correctâ in particular because it doesn't document the valiation rules it doesn't document the interesting or hard parts of the protocol. :)
948 2012-07-06 22:26:21 <ahf> no, i got that part.
949 2012-07-06 22:26:24 <gmaxwell> It's reasonable for e.g. just decoding the on the wire stuff to see the messages.
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951 2012-07-06 22:26:35 <ahf> yes.
952 2012-07-06 22:27:32 <ahf> excellent. thanks guys.
953 2012-07-06 22:28:27 <Kiba> BTW, there seems to be no official bitcoin logo
954 2012-07-06 22:28:32 <Kiba> like there's no official bitcoin forum
955 2012-07-06 22:28:33 <luke-jr> â¦
956 2012-07-06 22:28:49 <Kiba> there's a bunch of bitcoin logos floating around
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959 2012-07-06 22:31:48 <gmaxwell> pshaw. What _is_ bitcoin? Its a colletion of rules for interacting with others. Rules don't usually have logos! :)
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985 2012-07-06 23:35:33 <copumpkin> does bitcoin script have distinct types?
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987 2012-07-06 23:36:27 <gavinandresen> copumpkin: you mean on the stacks? Not really, it is all arrays of bytes interpreted in different ways by different opcodes
988 2012-07-06 23:36:33 <copumpkin> I see
989 2012-07-06 23:36:43 <copumpkin> yeah
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991 2012-07-06 23:41:41 <copumpkin> so is it conceptually a stack of distinct vectors of different lengths, or a big blob of memory?
992 2012-07-06 23:43:23 <copumpkin> I guess it's a stack of vectors
993 2012-07-06 23:43:30 <copumpkin> to make it meaningful to talk about elements farther back
994 2012-07-06 23:45:23 <phantomcircuit> copumpkin, it's implemented as a stack of vectors iirc
995 2012-07-06 23:45:28 <copumpkin> okay, cool
996 2012-07-06 23:46:00 <gavinandresen> yeah, stack of vectors. FALSE / 0 is a vector of zero length, by the way....
997 2012-07-06 23:46:11 <copumpkin> yeah
998 2012-07-06 23:46:28 <copumpkin> I seem to remember one of the opcodes had a weird design bug, didn't it?
999 2012-07-06 23:46:33 <copumpkin> like having one extra element
1000 2012-07-06 23:46:45 <gavinandresen> CHECKMULTISIG pops one too many items off the stack
1001 2012-07-06 23:46:50 <copumpkin> ah yeah, that was it
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