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  3 2012-07-12 00:11:05 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: think this will do this trick? http://dpaste.com/769623/
  4 2012-07-12 00:13:37 <knotwork> is there a tool that will dmp keys from a wallet without screwing around with runtime files, without killing running damons, without checking blockchain for checkpoints and all that extraneous stuff gavins python tools now seem to do?
  5 2012-07-12 00:14:00 <luke-jr> knotwork: bitcoind?
  6 2012-07-12 00:14:00 <sipa> knotwork: db4.8_dump ?
  7 2012-07-12 00:14:04 <knotwork> something so simple it will work on namecoins, bitcoins, i0coins, ixcoins, etc etc etc just plain old dump?
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  9 2012-07-12 00:14:30 <sipa> gmaxwell: i wrote some code to calculate the hash of the serialized list of unspent coins at every point in the blockchain, both for ultraprune, and now running with a patch for git head on the existing blkindex/blk0001.dat
 10 2012-07-12 00:14:33 bitcoinbulletin has joined
 11 2012-07-12 00:14:35 <knotwork> bitcoind only works on bitcoin wallets and also it still neds all the rest of the files not just a wallet.dat
 12 2012-07-12 00:14:36 <sipa> estimation: 3 days
 13 2012-07-12 00:14:59 <sipa> gmaxwell: i guess i should try testnet first
 14 2012-07-12 00:15:02 <knotwork> I want something that, given a USB with a wallet.dat on it, one can get they keys from it and move them to another wallet.dat
 15 2012-07-12 00:15:31 <sipa> moving keys around certainly has its uses, but be careful
 16 2012-07-12 00:15:38 <sipa> the software isn't exactly made for that
 17 2012-07-12 00:15:59 <knotwork> db4.8_dump might do it if it has a corresponding editor or something for inserting records into another db
 18 2012-07-12 00:16:08 <sipa> db4.8_load
 19 2012-07-12 00:16:15 <knotwork> cool
 20 2012-07-12 00:16:36 <sipa> but that will do much more, as it will just transform the entire wallet.dat to human-readable form and back
 21 2012-07-12 00:16:44 <knotwork> basically I discovered that mined coins dont go into the account the address they are sent to is supposed to be
 22 2012-07-12 00:16:59 <knotwork> so a donator donating mined coins isnt showing their balance in the wallet
 23 2012-07-12 00:17:06 <sipa> mined coins always go to "", indeed
 24 2012-07-12 00:17:13 <knotwork> so I have to create a wallet just for them in order to find balance of only coins mined by them
 25 2012-07-12 00:17:14 <sipa> luke-jr has created a patch for that
 26 2012-07-12 00:17:46 <knotwork> a patch that will make mined coins go to whatever address they were mined to is filed under?
 27 2012-07-12 00:17:49 <luke-jr> yes
 28 2012-07-12 00:18:03 <knotwork> so it will retoactively show me correct balance for this guy?
 29 2012-07-12 00:18:09 <luke-jr> I think so.
 30 2012-07-12 00:18:18 <sipa> yes
 31 2012-07-12 00:18:19 <luke-jr> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1409
 32 2012-07-12 00:18:29 <knotwork> awesome thanks
 33 2012-07-12 00:18:39 <knotwork> I hope applying it to devcoind will work
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 35 2012-07-12 00:19:19 <luke-jr> knotwork: if it works for Bitcoin, please comment on your take on it
 36 2012-07-12 00:19:21 <gavinandresen> if it works please note that in the pull request.  Testing pulls is our bottleneck.
 37 2012-07-12 00:21:47 <sipa> how many blocks does testnet3 have now?
 38 2012-07-12 00:22:06 <gmaxwell>     "blocks" : 8131,
 39 2012-07-12 00:22:32 <sipa> thanks!
 40 2012-07-12 00:22:50 <doublec> luke-jr: does that fix the "don't use web based wallets for pools that send your share via generate transactions" issue?
 41 2012-07-12 00:23:19 <gmaxwell> sipa: my hidden service node should have testnet3 running too, so you can use that if you need a working peer.
 42 2012-07-12 00:23:44 <sipa> gmaxwell: i'm already caught up, only took a few seconds to sync from scratch
 43 2012-07-12 00:24:48 <luke-jr> doublec: if the web based wallets use bitcoind
 44 2012-07-12 00:25:03 <luke-jr> and upgrade to it
 45 2012-07-12 00:25:45 <doublec> ah yeah, forgot a few use other clients
 46 2012-07-12 00:26:22 <gmaxwell> if they use !bitcoind they shouldn't have this issue!
 47 2012-07-12 00:26:35 <luke-jr> I guess those that use other clients aren't affected, so I imagine the real problem will be those who use an old version patched up so they can't just upgrade
 48 2012-07-12 00:26:47 <gmaxwell> yea, that.
 49 2012-07-12 00:26:57 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: luke-jr opened pull request 1586 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1586>
 50 2012-07-12 00:28:05 yellowhat has joined
 51 2012-07-12 00:30:06 <knotwork> anyone know offhand what change one makes to a pull's URL to get the page that shows whole thing in patch for ready to by input to patch command?
 52 2012-07-12 00:30:18 <knotwork> patch form
 53 2012-07-12 00:30:28 <gmaxwell> add .patch
 54 2012-07-12 00:30:42 <gmaxwell> curl https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1586.patch | git am
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 57 2012-07-12 00:35:58 <knotwork> ah well 1409 is far to recent to work. bitcoinrpc.cpp didnt even exist back in the day, and trying to apply to rpc.cpp fails on most chuncks
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 59 2012-07-12 00:36:35 <sipa> hmm, *how* old is that?
 60 2012-07-12 00:36:47 <knotwork> might as well wait until all the altcoins are updated to much more recent bitcoin code I guess
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 62 2012-07-12 00:37:03 * sipa doubts that will happen anytime soon...
 63 2012-07-12 00:37:09 <knotwork> oh this particular case its devcoind, which was like a year back or so maybe?
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 65 2012-07-12 00:37:30 <knotwork> no, december. as it was updated for bip 30
 66 2012-07-12 00:37:53 <knotwork> or whatever the multi sign transactions bip was. 14? 16?
 67 2012-07-12 00:38:12 <knotwork> getting overdue to be updated again
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 69 2012-07-12 00:40:54 <sipa> bitcoinrpc.cpp was added for bitcoin-qt, 0.5.0
 70 2012-07-12 00:43:23 <knotwork> if I manually go through the hunks I might be able to figure them out as I did manage to apply a merged mining patch by substituting rpc.cpp for bitcoinrpc.cpp I think
 71 2012-07-12 00:43:33 <knotwork> lots of manual work but got it eventually
 72 2012-07-12 00:46:20 <knotwork> weridly, gavin's pythin tools didnt even dump the kkeys from the wallet, it only showed first few characters of each key then an elipsis then last few characters
 73 2012-07-12 00:47:25 <knotwork> long ago when I used the tools to sump my donation address from a bitcoin wallet to import it into a devcoin wallet it worked fine
 74 2012-07-12 00:47:40 <sipa> i doubt that
 75 2012-07-12 00:47:54 <knotwork> but back then bitcoin and devcoin were at about the same version and the tools also were I think more primitive possibly also
 76 2012-07-12 00:47:56 <sipa> it never showed more than the first characters afaik
 77 2012-07-12 00:48:11 <sipa> sure you're not talking about another tool like pywallet?
 78 2012-07-12 00:48:20 <knotwork> well somehow I got my donation address ported over from bitcoin to devcoin so I could use same address in both
 79 2012-07-12 00:48:52 <knotwork> ahh hmm pywallet eh maybe, I went and got whatever tools I could find
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 81 2012-07-12 00:49:42 <knotwork> I dont see pywallet in my source code dir, is it just a simple single file script maybe not needing a wqhole source code repo?
 82 2012-07-12 00:51:10 <knotwork> aha yes I ahd it on my old desktop, its in my copy of that old homedir I brought to new machine just in case
 83 2012-07-12 00:51:23 <knotwork> ok so maybe pywallet is what I used instead of gavins tools
 84 2012-07-12 00:51:34 <knotwork> thanks I will check that out
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 86 2012-07-12 00:58:06 <knotwork> awesome. thanks sipa, looks like pywallet is what I used and likely will still work now
 87 2012-07-12 00:59:00 <knotwork> kind of annoying that just *reading* the berkely db causes deamon to crash though
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102 2012-07-12 01:39:10 <doublec> knotwork: I have a devcoind on a more recent bitcoin
103 2012-07-12 01:39:22 <doublec> knotwork: still old but newer than the original devcoind
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105 2012-07-12 01:40:16 <doublec> knotwork: based on bitcoin defdf9b56088c5aeb030aad0abc50c8845242bea
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107 2012-07-12 01:41:06 <doublec> knotwork: although yours might be newer if you have bip 30
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109 2012-07-12 01:41:28 <doublec> ah, altcoins, the joy of never knowing exactly what the right code to run is
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117 2012-07-12 01:56:39 <knotwork> pywallet worked for copying privkey to new empty wallet, now I just have to figure out how to remove privkey from old wallet
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120 2012-07-12 01:58:50 <knotwork> doublec I believe I am using https://github.com/knotwork/old-devcoind
121 2012-07-12 01:59:16 <knotwork> 4 months ago 	BIP 30 patch applied [Mark Metson]
122 2012-07-12 01:59:51 <doublec> I wonder how much % of the network is running that
123 2012-07-12 02:04:52 <doublec> knotwork: unfortunately it's hard t otell what bitcoin version that was based on
124 2012-07-12 02:04:58 <doublec> knotwork: since it doesn't have the bitcoin commit history
125 2012-07-12 02:06:08 <knotwork> "version" : 32400,
126 2012-07-12 02:10:26 <doublec> that doesn't tell you what commit though which is useful for merging, knowing what's included, etc.
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128 2012-07-12 02:13:36 <knotwork> hmm yeah likely wherever git wrote that is probably lost by now as likely I pulled bitcoin again since then
129 2012-07-12 02:15:23 <knotwork> even the non-old devcoin repo I did based on newer bitcoin is out of date by now, I am not sure if I can somehow auto-update it from bitcoin main repo or not
130 2012-07-12 02:16:09 <knotwork> maybe doesnt matter since its not yet actually a devcoin at all, it might even just be unmodified bitcoin so far that I merely intended to turn into devcoin but never did
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198 2012-07-12 06:09:51 <t3a> Do most miners not accept transactions that go to incorrect addresses?
199 2012-07-12 06:10:14 <t3a> (incorrect meaning that the checksum is wrong)
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207 2012-07-12 06:23:31 <dooglus> t3a: transactions don't go to bitcoin addresses, they go to 160 bit hashes which don't have checksums
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211 2012-07-12 06:26:33 <t3a> dooglus, Don't you know what I mean?
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247 2012-07-12 07:54:39 <coblee> can anyone help with building bitcoin from source on windows?
248 2012-07-12 07:57:00 <sipa> t3a: the checksum is part of the base85 encoding, not past of the 160-bit destination key hash
249 2012-07-12 07:57:18 <sipa> coblee: sorry...
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360 2012-07-12 11:56:35 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1587 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1587>
361 2012-07-12 11:58:02 <jrmithdobbs> this is going to sound retardedly stupid, but please tell me someone knows of a faster bf (specifically bf-ofb) impl than openssl's
362 2012-07-12 11:58:34 <sipa> bf?
363 2012-07-12 11:58:44 <jrmithdobbs> preferably one that can parallelize the actual individual blocks since ofb itself can't be. (i want to kill the idiot who used bf-ofb for this in 2007 instead of aes-ctr
364 2012-07-12 11:58:48 <jrmithdobbs> blowfish
365 2012-07-12 11:59:17 <jrmithdobbs> i mean even cuda/opencl crap would work as i could throw that hardware at it
366 2012-07-12 12:00:00 <jrmithdobbs> it's legit use, have the keys, the shit will not stream faster than 70MB/s off meadia capable of ~120MB/s due to cpu bottleneck ... on current gen e5 cores!
367 2012-07-12 12:02:06 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
368 2012-07-12 12:02:08 <jrmithdobbs> if i could find something that'd split the bf op across 4 cores or that speeds it up (maybe using carryless mult, etc) so that multiple portions are computed at once :(
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389 2012-07-12 13:13:12 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened issue 1588 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1588>
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399 2012-07-12 13:48:47 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1589 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1589>
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402 2012-07-12 14:08:42 <t7> jrmithdobbs: what for?
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425 2012-07-12 14:55:32 <Joric> where may i download that utterly cool-looking electrum client listed here http://bitcoin.org/clients.html ecdsa.org links to an ugly old one
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429 2012-07-12 14:59:37 <MC1984> or mybe copyright really doesnt make much sense in what is effectivel a post-scarcity environment
430 2012-07-12 15:00:07 <MC1984> oh that was yesterday lol
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432 2012-07-12 15:01:42 <jgarzik> interesting.  znort987 runs numbers on pirate's bitcoin addresses, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91653.0
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434 2012-07-12 15:03:58 <sipa> jgarzik: i read you're coming to the london conference?
435 2012-07-12 15:04:01 hnz has joined
436 2012-07-12 15:04:51 <jgarzik> sipa: yes
437 2012-07-12 15:04:58 <sipa> nice!
438 2012-07-12 15:05:19 <jgarzik> it's !@#!@# expensive to fly to Europe :)
439 2012-07-12 15:05:49 <jgarzik> sipa: looking forward to meeting you in person for the first time :)  and TD too hopefully, and many others
440 2012-07-12 15:06:01 * jgarzik wonders if tcatm is coming
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442 2012-07-12 15:06:27 <sipa> he is on the list on bitcoin2012.com
443 2012-07-12 15:08:54 <sipa> jgarzik: we can do a small gpg key-signing there
444 2012-07-12 15:09:57 <sipa> jgarzik: yeah, if it wasn't that expensive I would've been at the NY conference too
445 2012-07-12 15:10:02 <jgarzik> sure, though I'm still dubious on whether or not in-person keysigning has more than theoretical value ;)
446 2012-07-12 15:10:37 <sipa> well, in this case probably not, as we've learned to trust eachother based on the code contributions by our virtual identities
447 2012-07-12 15:10:57 <sipa> whether they are linked to real-world identities is not that important
448 2012-07-12 15:11:29 <sipa> i've met TD, slush, jim, justmoon, ... already, but none of the US developers
449 2012-07-12 15:11:43 <t7> you guys allways fix bugs before i get a chance to patch them
450 2012-07-12 15:11:51 <t7> how can i commit code :(
451 2012-07-12 15:12:24 <sipa> you don't have to contribute bug fixes (though they are certainly appreciated)
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453 2012-07-12 15:12:40 <jgarzik> exactly :)  Linus Torvalds made a similar point, after kernel.org was hacked, and inside-WoT GPG identities were required for major kernel developers.  You might or might not know the "in person" identity... you primarily know people by their virtual identities, by the code they produce.  A photo id check is insufficient.  You must sit down with someone and watch them email and code for a while... rather tedious.
454 2012-07-12 15:14:08 * jgarzik met gavinandresen and justmoon at the NYC conference.  There was a huge blur of non-dev people there too
455 2012-07-12 15:14:43 <jgarzik> t7: pull requests on github.com are the method by which changes are submitted to bitcoin
456 2012-07-12 15:15:11 <t7> jgarzik: what makes you think i dont know that?
457 2012-07-12 15:15:31 <jgarzik> t7: you said "how can i commit code" which seemed a basic question.
458 2012-07-12 15:15:35 <OneEyed> t7: if he read your lines in isolation, it is a perfect response to your last one :)
459 2012-07-12 15:15:36 <jgarzik> apologies
460 2012-07-12 15:15:52 <t7> ah haha
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463 2012-07-12 15:17:31 <sipa> jgarzik: remarkably enough, there is a GPG path of trust between me and gmaxwell
464 2012-07-12 15:19:25 <OneEyed> Wasn't there an online tool to check for connections between OpenPGP keys once?
465 2012-07-12 15:19:38 <sipa> http://pgp.cs.uu.nl/mk_path.cgi
466 2012-07-12 15:19:44 <OneEyed> Thx
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471 2012-07-12 15:21:12 * jgarzik -> lunch
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474 2012-07-12 15:22:28 <OneEyed> Is gmaxwell key B0413BFA?
475 2012-07-12 15:22:39 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
476 2012-07-12 15:22:41 <sipa> yes
477 2012-07-12 15:23:05 <OneEyed> 2 intermediate people to reach him by path of trust
478 2012-07-12 15:23:12 <OneEyed> (although I don't know him at all)
479 2012-07-12 15:23:48 <OneEyed> I suspect this is quite common. What's your distance with my 1B80ADE6?
480 2012-07-12 15:25:01 <sipa> i'm 1DAAC974
481 2012-07-12 15:25:33 <OneEyed> Ok, 2 people in the middle as well, with multiple possibilities
482 2012-07-12 15:25:45 Joric_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
483 2012-07-12 15:26:15 <sipa> http://webware.lysator.liu.se/jc/wotsap/wots/latest/keystatistics/0x1DAAC974.txt
484 2012-07-12 15:26:31 <sipa> ther's 2651 keys that have distance 2 to mine
485 2012-07-12 15:29:16 <OneEyed> We both have 13 people we signed our keys without us signing theirs. Strange, I'll have to check with those people, some of them being very close friends :/
486 2012-07-12 15:29:21 <OneEyed> ^we^who
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494 2012-07-12 15:45:35 <[\\\]> is there a document that lists the fee structure now?
495 2012-07-12 15:46:08 <[\\\]> I've got a tx sending 50+ btc containing 4 inputs ranging from 5-35 btc and its being dropped for lack of fees.  I'd hardly say it qualifies as spam.
496 2012-07-12 15:48:18 <gavinandresen> https://gist.github.com/2961409  has a review of the current default rules, but some miners have their own policies
497 2012-07-12 15:49:42 <BlueMatt> anyone happen to know off-hand the current number of unspent outputs?
498 2012-07-12 15:49:46 <BlueMatt> or something close to it
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501 2012-07-12 15:50:12 <[\\\]> thanks
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505 2012-07-12 15:58:10 <sipa> BlueMatt: 1.5M
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516 2012-07-12 16:20:00 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: ping; what GCC version has trouble compiling checknewblock? (I do my development on 32-bit…)
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531 2012-07-12 16:52:19 <topi`> t7: just read an interesting and long thread about a custom DIY fpga project. what is your opinion about FPGA vs ASIC? I think ASIC production is just hideously expensive
532 2012-07-12 16:52:39 <topi`> well, maybe this is not the right # for this :)
533 2012-07-12 16:53:04 <t7> im an ASIC kinda guy
534 2012-07-12 16:53:19 <t7> if you cant afford it, get out the damn kitchen
535 2012-07-12 16:53:31 <topi`> hehe
536 2012-07-12 16:54:00 <t7> seriously though, i think you mean someone else :)
537 2012-07-12 16:54:02 <topi`> well. more hashing power is of course welcome for bitcoin as a whole.
538 2012-07-12 16:54:20 <topi`> t7: sorry, I perhaps misinterpreted your nick.
539 2012-07-12 16:55:56 <topi`> just occurred to me, did gmaxwell's proposal for generating a "master key" get incorporated to current bitcoind?
540 2012-07-12 16:55:57 <Diablo-D3> well
541 2012-07-12 16:56:12 <topi`> instead of pre-generating 100 pubkeys
542 2012-07-12 16:56:24 <Diablo-D3> theres always DI.BFLSC insurance.
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545 2012-07-12 17:06:43 <jrmithdobbs> t7: what do you mean what for? for restoring a bunch of data i have on media that is encrypted with that mode of operation?
546 2012-07-12 17:07:33 bayleef has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
547 2012-07-12 17:07:45 <t7> ah ok
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549 2012-07-12 17:16:11 <luke-jr> topi`: no, HD wallets aren't done yet
550 2012-07-12 17:16:18 <luke-jr> probably won't be until 0.8 at the earliest
551 2012-07-12 17:17:55 <sipa> topi`: see BIP32 for more information about the planned implementation
552 2012-07-12 17:18:11 <sipa> but i'm working on other things first
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554 2012-07-12 17:26:19 [\\\] is now known as imsaguy
555 2012-07-12 17:27:22 <imsaguy2> Kinda stupid.. my transaction with 4 larger btc inputs to 1 output wouldn't get relayed, but 4 smaller transactions with 1 input, 1 output did. The fee planning needs more TLC
556 2012-07-12 17:30:36 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
557 2012-07-12 17:30:53 <D34TH> well
558 2012-07-12 17:31:02 <D34TH> my wallet just disappered forever
559 2012-07-12 17:31:10 <D34TH> bbl
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582 2012-07-12 18:39:50 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gavinandresen opened pull request 1590 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1590>
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593 2012-07-12 18:55:44 <yellowhat> for anyone interested in joining the hackathon in berlin remotely, i will be setting up a google hangout for anyone joining remotely. see also https://plus.google.com/events/ce24slldsj4auqc0jpkjn4to7b0/114922074876942161680
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597 2012-07-12 19:07:13 <BlueMatt> if only a 2-way ticket wasnt 200eur...
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602 2012-07-12 19:15:48 <yellowhat> BlueMatt, you will hopefully be able to join remotely via google hangout.
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607 2012-07-12 19:21:15 <BlueMatt> yea, Ill be on
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612 2012-07-12 19:41:39 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: hey, you have a source for that hash bruteforcing method you mentioned re: statistical analysis of keystrokes that leads to breaking seemingly-random passphrases?
613 2012-07-12 19:43:03 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: or similar papers, I'm trying to find some good papers to cite re: current research in this area especially as it relates to those types of methods and linguistic-based approaches for long passphrases based off of (for instance) published text
614 2012-07-12 19:43:17 bayleef has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
615 2012-07-12 19:43:52 rdponticelli has joined
616 2012-07-12 19:44:45 <jrmithdobbs> the best I'm being able to find is: http://xkcd.com/936/
617 2012-07-12 19:44:45 <jrmithdobbs> and yes that's the one you think it is
618 2012-07-12 19:44:48 <jrmithdobbs> everything i find re: key deriv that is semi-appropriate seems to skip that part because knowing you need to generate the phrase based on a strong prng is an assumption of the rest of the paper!
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631 2012-07-12 20:09:12 <OneEyed> 35 minutes without a block. Who pulled the bitcoin plug?
632 2012-07-12 20:10:07 cande has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
633 2012-07-12 20:10:30 cande has joined
634 2012-07-12 20:10:56 <sipa> ;;bc,tblb 35m
635 2012-07-12 20:10:58 <gribble> 5 hours, 44 minutes, and 8 seconds
636 2012-07-12 20:11:09 <sipa> happens several times a day :)
637 2012-07-12 20:11:26 <OneEyed> Nice, didn't know that command
638 2012-07-12 20:11:35 <OneEyed> ;;bc,tblb 38m
639 2012-07-12 20:11:36 <gribble> 7 hours, 46 minutes, and 41 seconds
640 2012-07-12 20:11:49 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
641 2012-07-12 20:13:28 gfinn has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
642 2012-07-12 20:14:21 <OneEyed> New block contains only 8 transactions and weights 3k? Wow, 40,786.36 BTC though
643 2012-07-12 20:14:47 theorb has joined
644 2012-07-12 20:15:03 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
645 2012-07-12 20:15:10 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
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649 2012-07-12 20:22:27 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
650 2012-07-12 20:24:26 gfinn has joined
651 2012-07-12 20:29:29 slush1 has joined
652 2012-07-12 20:30:01 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,tblb 60m
653 2012-07-12 20:30:03 <gribble> 3 days, 0 hours, 36 minutes, and 31 seconds
654 2012-07-12 20:30:10 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,tblb 120m
655 2012-07-12 20:30:11 <gribble> 3 years, 34 weeks, 5 days, 5 hours, 7 minutes, and 8 seconds
656 2012-07-12 20:30:16 agricocb has joined
657 2012-07-12 20:31:31 TimothyA has joined
658 2012-07-12 20:31:52 <TimothyA> is there a way to reduce fragmenting caused by bitcoin and other derivative clientS?
659 2012-07-12 20:33:54 slush1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
660 2012-07-12 20:35:29 <sipa> fragmenting of what?
661 2012-07-12 20:35:37 <TimothyA> sipa: blockchain files
662 2012-07-12 20:35:57 <sipa> diapolo has been working on a fix for that,
663 2012-07-12 20:36:00 <TimothyA> trying to run it on any VPS setup, SAN or no SAN, will run the fragmentation in up to embarrasing numbers
664 2012-07-12 20:36:11 <TimothyA> ~80-200K
665 2012-07-12 20:36:20 <sipa> what OS?
666 2012-07-12 20:36:30 <TimothyA> Linux/Ubuntu, ext3
667 2012-07-12 20:36:54 <[Tycho]> Try pre-allocating those files, they will go up to ~2000 Mb each.
668 2012-07-12 20:36:56 <TimothyA> so I actually have to copy over the file, which is fragmented like ****, to get the amount of fragmantation down. but it will immediately fragment again anyway
669 2012-07-12 20:37:12 <TimothyA> [Tycho]: pre-allocating does not help
670 2012-07-12 20:37:52 <sipa> the problem is mostly that BDB is extremely IO-intensive, and doesn't seem to try minizing its number of IO operations
671 2012-07-12 20:37:53 <TimothyA> when booting up the client, it will immediately go from a low number to something in the thousands
672 2012-07-12 20:38:07 <sipa> you're talking about blkindex.dat, then?
673 2012-07-12 20:38:13 <TimothyA> all blk* files
674 2012-07-12 20:38:25 <sipa> those shouldn't get fragmented
675 2012-07-12 20:38:28 <TimothyA> and I'm rather confused why bitcoind needs to disktrash when I'm doing a getinfo()
676 2012-07-12 20:38:38 <TimothyA> sipa: well, they do get fragmented. severely.
677 2012-07-12 20:38:57 <sipa> the blk000?.dat files are only appended to
678 2012-07-12 20:38:59 <TimothyA> I've tried to run bitcoind on at least 7 different VPS's with Linux/Ubuntu, ext3 fs
679 2012-07-12 20:39:10 <TimothyA> from different providers. they all fragment severely
680 2012-07-12 20:39:45 <sipa> fragmentation as such is not that much of a problem (the files are only accessed randomly anyway)
681 2012-07-12 20:39:58 <sipa> but VPS'es typically have slow IO operations
682 2012-07-12 20:40:26 <sipa> and using BDB certainly doesn't help
683 2012-07-12 20:41:23 <TimothyA> why is BDB even harddisk bound to begin with
684 2012-07-12 20:41:46 Diapolo has joined
685 2012-07-12 20:41:53 <sipa> what else would it be? it's a database, if it's not IO bound, there is a problem
686 2012-07-12 20:42:24 <sipa> the problem is really that we're not using BDB for what it is designed for
687 2012-07-12 20:42:39 <TimothyA> sipa: the last thing I want my database to do is being limited by the harddisk performance, especially if it's a horribly inefficient database
688 2012-07-12 20:43:09 <sipa> i don't see what else it should be limited by
689 2012-07-12 20:43:26 <sipa> the problem is that the application shouldn't be limited by the database
690 2012-07-12 20:43:52 <TimothyA> sipa: yet, the application demands to know the blockchain on every single RPC request I make to it
691 2012-07-12 20:44:14 <TimothyA> at these speeds, sqlite is even faster
692 2012-07-12 20:44:23 maaku has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
693 2012-07-12 20:44:33 <sipa> i really doubt sqlite would be faster when used with the same data
694 2012-07-12 20:45:09 <sipa> and no, the application does not demand access to the database at every RPC request
695 2012-07-12 20:45:36 <sipa> getinfo does, as it tries constructing a block, to be able to report difficulty and some other statistics (that should be changed, really)
696 2012-07-12 20:45:38 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
697 2012-07-12 20:45:39 <TimothyA> then I would like to know what happens when I do "bitcoind getinfo", and I have to wait 50 seconds on a reply while it trashes the harddisk
698 2012-07-12 20:45:53 <TimothyA> validateaddress() produces the same
699 2012-07-12 20:46:01 <TimothyA> even "help"
700 2012-07-12 20:46:09 <sipa> help shouldn't touch your disk at all
701 2012-07-12 20:46:18 <sipa> it takes a global lock
702 2012-07-12 20:46:22 * TimothyA waits 50 seconds and watches the disk trash
703 2012-07-12 20:46:32 <sipa> and if a block is being processed, it cannot get that lock until it's done
704 2012-07-12 20:46:43 <sipa> and with a VPS, processing a block will take ages because of slow IO operations
705 2012-07-12 20:46:55 maaku has joined
706 2012-07-12 20:46:57 <TimothyA> right. but fragmentation does not help, either
707 2012-07-12 20:47:06 <sipa> that said, we plan to move to another database engine
708 2012-07-12 20:47:09 <TimothyA> so VPS's get the double-whammy here
709 2012-07-12 20:47:13 <sipa> (leveldb)
710 2012-07-12 20:48:02 <sipa> and i've been working myself on the validation system to reduce the amount of data needed for validation
711 2012-07-12 20:48:10 <TimothyA> anyway... anyone got a PHP-implementation for validating addresses? the one found on the wiki does not replicate validateaddress() properly
712 2012-07-12 20:48:32 <TimothyA> lots of false negatives
713 2012-07-12 20:48:35 <sipa> i believe i've seen PHP implementations for that on the forum
714 2012-07-12 20:48:45 <sipa> but they may be old
715 2012-07-12 20:49:00 <TimothyA> sipa: yeah, ~20% false negatives
716 2012-07-12 20:50:52 <[Tycho]> There is some PHP lib for processing bitcoin addresses, mostly correct. But I can't remember where I got it.
717 2012-07-12 20:51:13 <TimothyA> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1026.msg22121#msg22121 this one?
718 2012-07-12 20:51:19 <TimothyA> it fails a *LOT*
719 2012-07-12 20:52:01 bitinstant has left ()
720 2012-07-12 20:52:32 <[Tycho]> I don't see any validating funcs, so it may be not this one.
721 2012-07-12 20:52:48 <TimothyA> [Tycho]: it's for validating, though
722 2012-07-12 20:52:56 <TimothyA> if it can't encode/decode it, it's "invalid"
723 2012-07-12 20:53:00 <[Tycho]> Nope, I think it's another one.
724 2012-07-12 20:53:35 <TimothyA> http://pastebin.com/vmRQC7ha this?
725 2012-07-12 20:54:12 <[Tycho]> Quite possibly.
726 2012-07-12 20:54:47 <[Tycho]> I think I'm using some version of this one.
727 2012-07-12 20:55:01 <[Tycho]> Why it fails for you ?
728 2012-07-12 20:55:40 <TimothyA> this one is BCMath based, I will try running it with a bitcoinaddress that will produce a false negative..
729 2012-07-12 20:55:51 maaku has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
730 2012-07-12 20:57:57 maaku has joined
731 2012-07-12 20:58:12 <TimothyA> k, that one does validate more properly
732 2012-07-12 20:59:32 <[Tycho]> Just "more" ?
733 2012-07-12 20:59:50 <TimothyA> yes
734 2012-07-12 21:00:08 <TimothyA> it's under 5% at least, not the whopping 20%
735 2012-07-12 21:00:10 <[Tycho]> But still produces false negatives ?
736 2012-07-12 21:00:44 Icoin has quit (Quit: Icoin)
737 2012-07-12 21:01:13 <TimothyA> yep
738 2012-07-12 21:01:53 <Diapolo> sipa: How does bitcoind know it is fully synced?
739 2012-07-12 21:02:58 <[Tycho]> TimothyA: give me an example
740 2012-07-12 21:03:02 agricocb has joined
741 2012-07-12 21:03:50 <sipa> Diapolo: it doesn't
742 2012-07-12 21:04:26 <sipa> Diapolo: it guesses based on the tikestamp of the latest block
743 2012-07-12 21:04:34 <TimothyA> evil clipboard... *thwacks it on the head*
744 2012-07-12 21:04:58 <Diapolo> sipa: I'm asking because of that testnet3 GUI thing I'm looking into ... so how can Bitcoin-Qt know this either?
745 2012-07-12 21:06:05 <Diapolo> It currently uses std::max(cPeerBlockCounts.median(), Checkpoints::GetTotalBlocksEstimate()) as number of estimated blocks, which is a crazy number with all those old testnet nodes.
746 2012-07-12 21:07:09 t3a has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
747 2012-07-12 21:07:26 <sipa> only real solution is headers first mode
748 2012-07-12 21:07:40 Joric has quit ()
749 2012-07-12 21:07:46 <sipa> so you can verify PoW of blocks before downloading them
750 2012-07-12 21:08:39 <Diapolo> You are right, the problem is a deeper onw as PoW fails for the obsolete blocks ... hm.
751 2012-07-12 21:10:11 <Diapolo> Seems like a nice scenario (at least for Bitcoin-Qt) that Gavin created there ^^. Old nodes which claim to have the right chain, which is much much longer than the chain after the testnet reset.
752 2012-07-12 21:11:20 <Diapolo> What is bitcoind doing with the old invalid blocks? Is is generatong PoW failed errors, too?
753 2012-07-12 21:11:26 <Diapolo> -o +i
754 2012-07-12 21:14:54 cande has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
755 2012-07-12 21:15:19 cande has joined
756 2012-07-12 21:18:21 <sipa> which old invalif blocks?
757 2012-07-12 21:18:38 <sipa> the testnet2 blocks downloaded by a testnet3 node?
758 2012-07-12 21:19:39 <Diapolo> sipa: right
759 2012-07-12 21:19:52 t3a has joined
760 2012-07-12 21:20:42 <sipa> testnet3 has a checkpoint, so if they can't provide a path to the checkpoint, i suppose they get discarded before storing on disk
761 2012-07-12 21:21:50 <Diapolo> sipa: Right, they don't get stored, but my node is constantly querying for these blocks as their chain is longer than mine, right?
762 2012-07-12 21:21:59 <sipa> indeed
763 2012-07-12 21:22:23 <sipa> i guess we should have switched the magic marker, or default port as well
764 2012-07-12 21:23:23 <Diapolo> Can't we do sth. like don't request a block again which fails PoW or sth. like trust nodes with a higher version more in terms of block-count or such a thing?
765 2012-07-12 21:23:56 <sipa> i'm not sure it actually keeps asking
766 2012-07-12 21:24:21 sytse has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
767 2012-07-12 21:24:36 <[Tycho]> TimothyA: can you give me an example ?
768 2012-07-12 21:24:37 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
769 2012-07-12 21:26:37 <Diapolo> sipa: my debug log shows a sending getdata: block 00000001a3f1d16f17f6 3 times after it failed PoW each one 2 minutes later
770 2012-07-12 21:30:13 <TimothyA> [Tycho]: copy-paste error :P
771 2012-07-12 21:30:24 CodesInChaos has joined
772 2012-07-12 21:30:57 <Diapolo> sipa: My node has 8163 verified testnet3 blocks and tries to get more blocks. Those blocks should all be older than block 8163 and fail PoW, right?
773 2012-07-12 21:31:24 sytse has joined
774 2012-07-12 21:31:45 <Diapolo> Are blocks stored from oldest to newest on my local node?
775 2012-07-12 21:33:25 Icoin has joined
776 2012-07-12 21:35:11 <[Tycho]> TimothyA: so you can't show it ?
777 2012-07-12 21:35:25 <TimothyA> ...
778 2012-07-12 21:35:31 <TimothyA> I said; There was a COPY and PASTE error
779 2012-07-12 21:35:36 <TimothyA> hence I was TESTING the WRONG thing
780 2012-07-12 21:35:51 <[Tycho]> Oh, that.
781 2012-07-12 21:35:53 <[Tycho]> Sorry.
782 2012-07-12 21:36:13 <[Tycho]> I thought it was stopping you from showing that address to us :)
783 2012-07-12 21:38:18 cande has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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787 2012-07-12 21:44:10 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
788 2012-07-12 21:44:52 <sipa> Diapolo: not sure what you mean
789 2012-07-12 21:46:11 phantomcircuit has joined
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791 2012-07-12 21:47:33 <Diapolo> As long as there are nodes I'm connected to that have a longer chain my client tries downloading blocks from that node, right?
792 2012-07-12 21:49:06 <sipa> yes
793 2012-07-12 21:49:11 <Diapolo> And all of them will fail PoW check.
794 2012-07-12 21:49:11 <sipa> as long as they announce them
795 2012-07-12 21:49:19 <sipa> no
796 2012-07-12 21:49:57 <Diapolo> How can that be, based of the testnet3 situation?
797 2012-07-12 21:50:18 Internet13 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
798 2012-07-12 21:51:03 <Diapolo> My node has 8163 blocks, I think that's the current real block-count. Why should it be able to download blocks then, which succeed the PoW check?
799 2012-07-12 21:51:08 <sipa> they will be downloaded, look valid, stored in RAM as orphan, their parents get requested, peer will send invs for first bunch of blocks in the testnet2 chain, those get requested and downloaded, and they will fail the difficulty check (since testnet3 has different difficulty rules)
800 2012-07-12 21:51:29 <sipa> PoW check = block's hash matches the target specified by its own claimed difficulty
801 2012-07-12 21:51:37 <Diapolo> I was thinking way to easy ...
802 2012-07-12 21:53:10 <Diapolo> sipa: But now comes the thing with the block-date and my question about chronological order of local blocks. Number 1 is always oldest, while 8163 is newest?
803 2012-07-12 21:54:15 <sipa> yes
804 2012-07-12 21:54:20 <Diapolo> My node has these blocks, knows they are valid ... now can me reach a block that could make it into my chain, but has an older blockdate, than my newest block?
805 2012-07-12 21:54:34 <sipa> parse error
806 2012-07-12 21:55:53 <Diapolo> I'm seeking a way for Bitcoin-Qt to know it's up to date and stops showing the progessbar ... I guess this can be only done with block-times.
807 2012-07-12 21:56:42 <sipa> and even that is approximate
808 2012-07-12 21:57:03 <Diapolo> The check for if local block count < median of block count of remote nodes WILL fail with testnet2 nodes online, which sucks ^^.
809 2012-07-12 21:57:05 Internet13 has joined
810 2012-07-12 21:57:47 <sipa> i suppose you could use time-stamps
811 2012-07-12 21:58:24 <sipa> show the number of expected remaining blocks based on median, but make the progressbar dependent on the number of days to catch up
812 2012-07-12 21:59:02 <Diapolo> I think this is done for that spinning-animation in the lower right of the GUI.
813 2012-07-12 21:59:29 <sipa> yes, indeed
814 2012-07-12 21:59:59 <Diapolo> I mean the tooltip is great ... last block generated 14 minutes ago and 39000 blocks remaining ... LOL.
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824 2012-07-12 22:21:55 <Diapolo> sipa: It's perhaps not THAT elegant, but what about consider the local node up to date, when (clientModel->isTestNet() && nRemainingBlocks >= 100 && nSecsToLastBlock <= 60*60)
825 2012-07-12 22:22:50 <sipa> meh, it's just testnet
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827 2012-07-12 22:23:29 <Diapolo> There were complaints ... even Gavin was grumping in the forums.
828 2012-07-12 22:24:44 <sipa> gavin uses the GUI? ;(
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831 2012-07-12 22:26:22 <Diapolo> I guess not, but called this behaviour a GUI bug, which in the end I want to fix :). GUI things are my part, rocket-science is yours :-D.
832 2012-07-12 22:27:23 <sipa> no no, rocket-science is etotheipi's business :p
833 2012-07-12 22:28:00 tower has joined
834 2012-07-12 22:28:34 <Diapolo> I know that name, but never met him here.
835 2012-07-12 22:28:44 <Diapolo> Well you know what I mean ^^.
836 2012-07-12 22:29:01 <sipa> he's the author of armory
837 2012-07-12 22:29:22 <sipa> and left IRC when he started to waste too much time here :)
838 2012-07-12 22:31:38 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
839 2012-07-12 22:32:42 <Diapolo> I'm only in here, when I want to listen, have a coding-problem but mostly not, when working focused on something. Btw. sorry for not having finished that GUI proxy stuff yet.
840 2012-07-12 22:33:29 <sipa> i'll be offline from tomorrow until the end of juli, btw
841 2012-07-12 22:34:35 <Diapolo> holidays? will Gavin start RC phase during your break?
842 2012-07-12 22:36:24 sirk390 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
843 2012-07-12 22:36:38 <sipa> no idea
844 2012-07-12 22:37:43 <Diapolo> I guess the world will keep turning either case :). Come back well and healthy! I'm off for now.
845 2012-07-12 22:37:55 <sipa> cya
846 2012-07-12 22:39:00 Diapolo has left ()
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877 2012-07-12 23:59:19 <bbqgates> Hello, I'm trying to run bitcoin 0.6.3 for the first time on linux x86_64, but it keeps crashing and displaying this message -> EXCEPTION: 11DbException
878 2012-07-12 23:59:30 <bbqgates> Db::put: Cannot allocate memory
879 2012-07-12 23:59:39 <bbqgates> bitcoin in ProcessMessage()
880 2012-07-12 23:59:56 <bbqgates> it does this when it's downloading the block chain, and the error message just repeats