1 2012-07-16 00:05:00 <D34TH> maaku: how do you have the script downloading the deps?
2 2012-07-16 00:07:07 Uncle has joined
3 2012-07-16 00:07:18 membersonlyguy has quit (Quit: Saindo)
4 2012-07-16 00:07:19 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
5 2012-07-16 00:07:30 Uncle is now known as Guest85354
6 2012-07-16 00:10:29 <D34TH> maaku: new errors for fun
7 2012-07-16 00:10:42 <D34TH> maaku: hunks failed @ 19 & 40
8 2012-07-16 00:12:59 <D34TH> hmm maaku: gitian.yml failed
9 2012-07-16 00:17:16 <BlueMatt> heh, for the non-ipv6 peers, sorry, my ip changes (and all connections get reset) every 24 hours, so you just got disconnected
10 2012-07-16 00:17:23 <BlueMatt> to the one ipv6 peer, good for you
11 2012-07-16 00:17:39 <D34TH> on the other hand, my dl speed got raised
12 2012-07-16 00:17:49 <D34TH> crap, they found you again
13 2012-07-16 00:17:53 <D34TH> speed just died
14 2012-07-16 00:18:15 <BlueMatt> no, thats just latency-caused slowdowns
15 2012-07-16 00:20:05 <D34TH> maaku: you there?
16 2012-07-16 00:20:18 <maaku> was afk
17 2012-07-16 00:20:22 <D34TH> ahh
18 2012-07-16 00:20:23 <maaku> on sec
19 2012-07-16 00:24:54 eianpsego has joined
20 2012-07-16 00:28:05 <eianpsego> If you collected ip information about every transaction relayed by every node that is connectable on the network, what would you do with it?
21 2012-07-16 00:28:40 <eianpsego> actually, every block/transaction/addr/etc
22 2012-07-16 00:28:56 <BlueMatt> blockchain.info does
23 2012-07-16 00:29:05 <BlueMatt> (its not all that useful though...)
24 2012-07-16 00:29:12 <eianpsego> it's only connected to ~300 people
25 2012-07-16 00:29:29 <BlueMatt> ok, well even if you connected to more, it still wouldnt jump hugely in usefulness
26 2012-07-16 00:29:43 phantomcircuit has joined
27 2012-07-16 00:29:47 <BlueMatt> the tx->ip mapping is pretty weak
28 2012-07-16 00:30:15 <eianpsego> I'm seeing that only 70% of nodes relay any information at all
29 2012-07-16 00:30:44 <eianpsego> Also, I'm seeing blocks that are only relayed by certain groups of ips
30 2012-07-16 00:31:00 <BlueMatt> a) odd, bitcoind nodes or other nodes?
31 2012-07-16 00:31:09 <BlueMatt> b) makes sense, those would be pool bitcoinds
32 2012-07-16 00:31:15 <eianpsego> BlueMatt, is there a way to tell?
33 2012-07-16 00:31:21 <BlueMatt> yea
34 2012-07-16 00:31:22 <eianpsego> about (a)
35 2012-07-16 00:31:23 <eianpsego> how?
36 2012-07-16 00:31:25 <jrmithdobbs> version string, sometimes
37 2012-07-16 00:31:29 <BlueMatt> nodes report version string
38 2012-07-16 00:31:32 <BlueMatt> (for newer versions)
39 2012-07-16 00:31:48 <eianpsego> I'm capturing that too
40 2012-07-16 00:31:58 eianpsego is now known as eian
41 2012-07-16 00:32:20 <eian> I have all this data and I have no idea what would be an interesting project
42 2012-07-16 00:32:28 <eian> just hoping the community will be me ideas :P
43 2012-07-16 00:32:59 <BlueMatt> Im not so sure its really worth much...and you are dosing the network...
44 2012-07-16 00:33:41 <eian> I'm not denying anyone service am I?
45 2012-07-16 00:34:06 <BlueMatt> there is a limited number of open connection slots
46 2012-07-16 00:34:30 <eian> It's like 125 right?
47 2012-07-16 00:34:30 <BlueMatt> (dont think its a big issue atm, but it used to be a bit)
48 2012-07-16 00:34:47 <BlueMatt> for listening nodes, but not all nodes listen, and all nodes make 8 outgoing connections
49 2012-07-16 00:35:04 <maaku> D34TH: I thought maybe gitian.yml had changed since my pull-request
50 2012-07-16 00:35:17 <maaku> D34TH: but that is not the case
51 2012-07-16 00:35:28 <D34TH> wut do?
52 2012-07-16 00:35:39 <maaku> D34TH: are you sure your gitian.yml is unchanged?
53 2012-07-16 00:35:49 <D34TH> i shall redownload it
54 2012-07-16 00:37:57 Guest34461 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
55 2012-07-16 00:37:58 <eian> BlueMatt, I can establish over 10k connections
56 2012-07-16 00:38:07 <eian> So 8 connections seems way too low
57 2012-07-16 00:38:23 MC1984 has joined
58 2012-07-16 00:38:25 <eian> hell, do does 125
59 2012-07-16 00:38:30 <eian> *so does
60 2012-07-16 00:39:27 <BlueMatt> you dont need more than 8, and if every node on the network increased their connection count more, it would generate significantly more demand for open connection slots
61 2012-07-16 00:39:55 <BlueMatt> (dont get me wrong, we admittedly dont know /that/ much about the bitcoin network in practice, so I like more network analysis, but only if you are actually doing network analysis)
62 2012-07-16 00:40:02 <BlueMatt> just collecting data...
63 2012-07-16 00:40:15 <eian> I don't want what type of network analysis would be useful
64 2012-07-16 00:40:18 <eian> for the community
65 2012-07-16 00:40:47 <eian> Essentially, I can connect to as many nodes as there are listening nodes
66 2012-07-16 00:40:50 <BlueMatt> watching for stuff like % of NODE_NETWORK nodes, watching for "bad" nodes (send invalid blocks, dont relay stuff, etc)
67 2012-07-16 00:40:59 <eian> yeah, I'm doing that
68 2012-07-16 00:41:15 <eian> that was fairly easy with sql
69 2012-07-16 00:41:39 <eian> We are also clustering addresses (i.e., reused addresses, aggregating tx inputs)
70 2012-07-16 00:41:44 <BlueMatt> more interesting: make sure you are also listening for connections
71 2012-07-16 00:42:07 <eian> BlueMatt, I considered that but I'm not sure I want to open myself up to the world
72 2012-07-16 00:42:37 <eian> I'd rather reach out and touch someone
73 2012-07-16 00:42:56 <eian> or touch everyone
74 2012-07-16 00:43:00 <eian> :-o
75 2012-07-16 00:43:10 <BlueMatt> you'd get much more useful results that way (as long as you were a decent node and relayed so that the dnsseeds accepted you)
76 2012-07-16 00:43:25 <BlueMatt> ie you could actually tell what kind of % are NODE_NETWORK, etc
77 2012-07-16 00:43:33 <BlueMatt> (because they usually dont listen afaik)
78 2012-07-16 00:43:39 <eian> I can't relay - I'd chew through my monthly bandwidth
79 2012-07-16 00:44:12 <eian> I capture like 1 megabyte per minute
80 2012-07-16 00:44:24 <BlueMatt> not relaying also makes the dos factor worse...
81 2012-07-16 00:44:44 <eian> My software, in its present state, would likely implode trying to relay to 10k people
82 2012-07-16 00:45:01 <sytse> eian: man, what you said about not wanting to open up.. I hope you weren't talking about a nudist beach
83 2012-07-16 00:45:15 <eian> sytse: lol
84 2012-07-16 00:45:39 <D34TH> maaku: it seems that the patch has already been applied
85 2012-07-16 00:46:02 <eian> BlueMatt, what is dnsseeds? Are those the ips hardcoded into the satoshi client?
86 2012-07-16 00:47:22 <BlueMatt> eian: they are the (3) nodes which connect to (but dont hold connections, just connect, test, disconnect) listening nodes, test them for sanity, and add them to a few dns names for bootstrapping
87 2012-07-16 00:47:52 <eian> I see
88 2012-07-16 00:48:00 <eian> Is there a dns round robin setup now?
89 2012-07-16 00:48:11 <eian> I haven't looked at the satoshi client in a long while
90 2012-07-16 00:48:29 <eian> Last I remember, it had a few hardcoded ips and used IRC for bootstrapping
91 2012-07-16 00:48:55 <BlueMatt> irc is now disabled by default (for mainnet), hardcoded ips are backup (still) and it uses dns primarily to find new addrs
92 2012-07-16 00:49:11 <eian> didn't realize that
93 2012-07-16 00:49:37 <eian> what the dns server address if you don't mind?
94 2012-07-16 00:49:43 <eian> or should I look it up in the code
95 2012-07-16 00:51:11 galambo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
96 2012-07-16 00:51:27 galambo has joined
97 2012-07-16 00:51:34 <BlueMatt> bitseed.xf2.org, dnsseed.bluematt.me, seed.bitcoin.sipa.be, dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org
98 2012-07-16 00:51:39 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
99 2012-07-16 00:51:45 <eian> thanks
100 2012-07-16 00:52:29 <eian> BlueMatt, this work I'm doing is part of my masters thesis
101 2012-07-16 00:52:46 <eian> not sure where to take it, now that I have most of the infrastructure done
102 2012-07-16 00:53:09 <graingert> BlueMatt: looks like it's about to complete
103 2012-07-16 00:53:19 [\\\] has joined
104 2012-07-16 00:53:20 <BlueMatt> took long enough...
105 2012-07-16 00:53:50 <graingert> it's good for 400MB
106 2012-07-16 00:54:11 <eian> BlueMatt, the NODE_NETWORK - is that a flag somewhere in the verison messsage?
107 2012-07-16 00:54:21 <BlueMatt> eian: yes, in nServices
108 2012-07-16 00:54:32 <eian> thanks
109 2012-07-16 00:55:01 <MC1984> needs mor DHT
110 2012-07-16 00:55:10 <BlueMatt> eian: not sure either, it would be great to get some better analysis of the network in its actual function....but ideally that would include info on nodes which are only making outgoing connections (would obv take some extrapolation to guess real numbers there)
111 2012-07-16 00:55:22 <BlueMatt> eian: can you not get a good connection at the uni?
112 2012-07-16 00:55:42 <BlueMatt> leave a server on in some office somewhere
113 2012-07-16 00:55:55 <eian> BlueMatt, I am running this on a few machines and our rack is full
114 2012-07-16 00:56:01 <eian> BlueMatt, why do you ask?
115 2012-07-16 00:56:07 <eian> oh, about the bandwidth
116 2012-07-16 00:56:14 <BlueMatt> yea
117 2012-07-16 00:56:15 <eian> right
118 2012-07-16 00:56:36 <eian> I can try and ask my adviser again, but I think he is iffy about supporting this project
119 2012-07-16 00:56:55 <BlueMatt> they give you a bw limit, that kinda sucks...
120 2012-07-16 00:57:02 <BlueMatt> hmmm
121 2012-07-16 00:57:10 <eian> I'm on comcast in my apartment
122 2012-07-16 00:57:11 <eian> lol
123 2012-07-16 00:57:29 <eian> I have a machine in a colocation that I've been paying for, but it's getting pricey as well
124 2012-07-16 00:57:39 <BlueMatt> yea, thats expensive as...
125 2012-07-16 00:58:02 <BlueMatt> the relaying isnt a huge deal, but allowing incoming connections would be really nice
126 2012-07-16 00:58:21 <eian> If a node was only making inbound connections, what would that represent?
127 2012-07-16 00:58:35 <eian> A leech of sorts?
128 2012-07-16 00:59:04 <BlueMatt> well I would think the % of client nodes (!NODE_NETWORK) would be much greater on incoming connections
129 2012-07-16 00:59:19 <BlueMatt> as I believe most of those dont listen
130 2012-07-16 00:59:24 <eian> gotcha
131 2012-07-16 00:59:41 <eian> Of the 100,000 or so ips that I know about, I can only connect to about 9000
132 2012-07-16 00:59:43 <BlueMatt> trying to guess the %/# of client nodes would be nice
133 2012-07-16 00:59:57 <BlueMatt> a lot of those are likely just stale
134 2012-07-16 01:00:09 <eian> and of those 9000, only 3000 or so are sending me any data
135 2012-07-16 01:00:49 <BlueMatt> (most everyone behind dsl in germany (ie most everyone) gets a new ip every 24 hours, so there is a lot of turnover here at least)
136 2012-07-16 01:01:02 <eian> I see
137 2012-07-16 01:01:11 <BlueMatt> and how many of those connections are still open (tcp keepalive-ping-able)
138 2012-07-16 01:01:26 <eian> Well, all 9000 are alive
139 2012-07-16 01:01:26 <BlueMatt> or if (protocol_version > 60000) use a ping msg
140 2012-07-16 01:01:36 <eian> but only 3000 send me data
141 2012-07-16 01:01:50 <BlueMatt> odd....
142 2012-07-16 01:01:53 <eian> yeah
143 2012-07-16 01:02:05 <eian> But that data is about a month old
144 2012-07-16 01:02:11 <eian> I need to restart the collector I've written
145 2012-07-16 01:02:14 <BlueMatt> I would see if you can find any interesting patterns in the list of non-sending nodes...
146 2012-07-16 01:02:34 ageis_h0p3_9 is now known as ageis
147 2012-07-16 01:02:38 <eian> BlueMatt, what types of patterns do you suggest - I'm listening :)
148 2012-07-16 01:03:00 <eian> Also, why are you blue?
149 2012-07-16 01:03:55 <BlueMatt> dunno, look for NODE_NETWORK/specific client versions
150 2012-07-16 01:04:25 <BlueMatt> the nick is old as balls, actually someone once asked me if I was "BlueMatt" on...god what was it, and i wasnt, but later I needed a nick, so I used this...
151 2012-07-16 01:05:16 nimdAHK has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
152 2012-07-16 01:06:55 <eian> heh :)
153 2012-07-16 01:08:20 * BlueMatt refuses to think creatively
154 2012-07-16 01:08:48 <ageis> ;;seen gavinandresen
155 2012-07-16 01:08:48 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 days, 9 hours, 5 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> jgarzik: RE: MSB regulation: http://www.businessinsider.com/california-money-transmitter-act-startups-2012-7?utm_source=alerts
156 2012-07-16 01:09:25 <BlueMatt> ageis: its sunday, wait till the week
157 2012-07-16 01:12:02 <ageis> I figured it was worth a shot
158 2012-07-16 01:12:28 Guest85354 has quit (Quit: Saindo)
159 2012-07-16 01:12:52 Uncle has joined
160 2012-07-16 01:13:14 Uncle is now known as Guest73392
161 2012-07-16 01:13:19 <graingert> foaf:nick
162 2012-07-16 01:13:38 AndyBotwin has joined
163 2012-07-16 01:13:39 Guest73392 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
164 2012-07-16 01:17:37 AndyBotwin has quit (Client Quit)
165 2012-07-16 01:18:04 AndyBotwin has joined
166 2012-07-16 01:18:30 egecko has joined
167 2012-07-16 01:21:05 graingert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
168 2012-07-16 01:21:35 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
169 2012-07-16 01:23:47 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
170 2012-07-16 01:25:43 [\\\] has joined
171 2012-07-16 01:30:25 <BlueMatt> damn, I just discovered git add -p, now thats useful
172 2012-07-16 01:30:55 graingert has joined
173 2012-07-16 01:31:07 <eian> what does -p do?
174 2012-07-16 01:32:55 <BlueMatt> lets you chose individual hunks in the diff to add instead of entire files
175 2012-07-16 01:33:04 <BlueMatt> really great when you want to split a commit into two
176 2012-07-16 01:33:21 <BlueMatt> (eg commit 1; commit 2; commit 3 (fixup that covers both 1 and 2))
177 2012-07-16 01:33:33 <eian> I see
178 2012-07-16 01:33:37 <BlueMatt> then you reset 2; git add -p ...; git commit; git add -p...
179 2012-07-16 01:33:43 <BlueMatt> makes it real easy
180 2012-07-16 01:34:51 <eian> BlueMatt, if you are in germany, did you go to the berlin hackathon?
181 2012-07-16 01:35:02 <BlueMatt> no :(
182 2012-07-16 01:35:11 <eian> haha
183 2012-07-16 01:35:26 <eian> I don't know what it was about that sad face, but I can feel your pain lol
184 2012-07-16 01:35:56 <BlueMatt> I didnt realize i was gonna be in germany when it happened until a few days before, and then it was a bit too late to go...
185 2012-07-16 01:36:07 <eian> I see
186 2012-07-16 01:36:46 <BlueMatt> that and 200 eur for a train ticket up to berlin and back for a day is kinda steep...
187 2012-07-16 01:38:05 <BlueMatt> anywho...3:30...probably time to go to sleep, night all
188 2012-07-16 01:39:58 maximi89 has joined
189 2012-07-16 01:40:00 <maximi89> hi guys
190 2012-07-16 01:40:23 <maximi89> I have downloaded the bitcoin 0.6.3 and it started to use lot of HDD
191 2012-07-16 01:40:29 <maximi89> making the system unuable
192 2012-07-16 01:40:40 <maximi89> while it was downloading the blockchains
193 2012-07-16 01:42:15 <maximi89> it's not a cpu problem, just a problem on the hdd use it was strange because if it download data it should just save it and never use more than what i have of Internet because i have just 6Mbps... and it doesn't reach even the HDD speed tranfer
194 2012-07-16 01:42:16 <quintopia> sounds pretty standard
195 2012-07-16 01:42:23 <maximi89> quintopia, normal?
196 2012-07-16 01:42:34 <quintopia> only download during idle time
197 2012-07-16 01:42:52 <quintopia> maximi89: is your HDD very full?
198 2012-07-16 01:43:15 <maximi89> quintopia, it have 1GB free space
199 2012-07-16 01:43:20 <maximi89> for my home
200 2012-07-16 01:44:01 <maximi89> I'm under GNU/Linux Debian unstable
201 2012-07-16 01:44:16 <quintopia> you might need a little more than that. but yeah, that free space might be very fragmented, so you might see a huge slowdown when you get to >80% of the chain downloaded
202 2012-07-16 01:44:28 one_zero has joined
203 2012-07-16 01:44:46 <maximi89> thanks quintopia so i going to delete some movies
204 2012-07-16 01:45:07 <quintopia> anyway, just make sure you only run bitcoind when you aren't using the pc, and if you don't manage to get it downloaded within 2 weeks, come back and ask again
205 2012-07-16 01:45:17 <MagicalTux> maximi89: as the blockchain is downloaded, the bitcoin client will verify each tx in each block, which requires a lot of random read on the previously downloaded data
206 2012-07-16 01:46:22 <quintopia> and doesn't download next block until its through
207 2012-07-16 01:46:35 <maximi89> thanks MagicalTux
208 2012-07-16 01:47:20 <maximi89> actually it's at 96,1%
209 2012-07-16 01:54:55 rdponticelli_ has joined
210 2012-07-16 01:55:21 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
211 2012-07-16 02:02:00 slush has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
212 2012-07-16 02:02:24 graingert_ has joined
213 2012-07-16 02:05:01 graingert has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
214 2012-07-16 02:08:02 da2ce7-desktop has joined
215 2012-07-16 02:15:09 igetgames has joined
216 2012-07-16 02:16:02 igetgames__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
217 2012-07-16 02:21:57 [7] has quit (Disconnected by services)
218 2012-07-16 02:22:06 TheSeven has joined
219 2012-07-16 02:23:27 da2ce7-desktop is now known as da2ce7
220 2012-07-16 02:29:56 warflute has joined
221 2012-07-16 02:31:45 bennysx has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
222 2012-07-16 02:43:23 <jgarzik> Narnia!
223 2012-07-16 02:47:00 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
224 2012-07-16 02:47:14 toffoo has joined
225 2012-07-16 03:05:32 ageis has quit (Quit: http://ageispolis.net)
226 2012-07-16 03:06:54 ageis has joined
227 2012-07-16 03:08:09 Z0rZ0rZ0r has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
228 2012-07-16 03:12:26 maximi89_ has joined
229 2012-07-16 03:14:12 eoss has joined
230 2012-07-16 03:14:23 unknown45682 has quit ()
231 2012-07-16 03:15:48 maximi89 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
232 2012-07-16 03:18:18 eoss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
233 2012-07-16 03:21:10 Z0rZ0rZ0r has joined
234 2012-07-16 03:22:08 maximi89__ has joined
235 2012-07-16 03:24:34 ageis has quit (Quit: http://ageispolis.net)
236 2012-07-16 03:25:50 maximi89_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
237 2012-07-16 03:26:35 SomeoneWeird has quit (Excess Flood)
238 2012-07-16 03:26:57 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
239 2012-07-16 03:27:52 Guest71651 has joined
240 2012-07-16 03:29:43 * luke-jr peers at jgarzik
241 2012-07-16 03:35:13 unknown45682 has joined
242 2012-07-16 03:35:54 ageis has joined
243 2012-07-16 03:35:57 Guest71651 has quit (Changing host)
244 2012-07-16 03:35:57 Guest71651 has joined
245 2012-07-16 03:36:06 Guest71651 is now known as SomeoneWeird
246 2012-07-16 03:39:03 TimothyA has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
247 2012-07-16 03:42:06 RV___ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
248 2012-07-16 03:47:42 rdponticelli_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
249 2012-07-16 04:11:17 sytse has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
250 2012-07-16 04:12:51 sytse has joined
251 2012-07-16 04:23:18 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
252 2012-07-16 04:24:09 BitcoinBaltar has joined
253 2012-07-16 04:24:32 BitcoinBaltar has quit (Client Quit)
254 2012-07-16 04:35:54 D34TH has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
255 2012-07-16 04:37:13 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
256 2012-07-16 04:42:07 Icoin has quit (Quit: Icoin)
257 2012-07-16 04:46:30 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
258 2012-07-16 04:48:35 skeledrew has joined
259 2012-07-16 04:51:29 RV___ has joined
260 2012-07-16 04:51:43 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
261 2012-07-16 04:55:10 Obsi has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
262 2012-07-16 04:55:57 RV___ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
263 2012-07-16 04:59:41 Obsi has joined
264 2012-07-16 05:06:37 dvide has quit ()
265 2012-07-16 05:27:39 RV___ has joined
266 2012-07-16 05:31:55 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
267 2012-07-16 05:39:03 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
268 2012-07-16 05:48:14 * midnightmagic is stunned to see MagicalTux speak in here.
269 2012-07-16 05:48:21 <midnightmagic> :-)
270 2012-07-16 05:48:34 maximi89__ is now known as maximi89
271 2012-07-16 05:48:36 ovidiusoft has joined
272 2012-07-16 05:48:42 <luke-jr> he must be getting less busy :D
273 2012-07-16 05:48:47 maximi89 has quit (Changing host)
274 2012-07-16 05:48:47 maximi89 has joined
275 2012-07-16 05:49:26 <MagicalTux> midnightmagic: things are getting down a bit (plus with what happened with bitcoinica I had to stop what I was doing for a bit and cleanup a few things)
276 2012-07-16 05:52:15 <midnightmagic> MagicalTux: I'll assume by "down" you mean "slower" and not "depressing."
277 2012-07-16 05:52:45 <MagicalTux> yep, "slower" sounds close
278 2012-07-16 05:52:53 <MagicalTux> "depressing" is not far either
279 2012-07-16 05:54:35 Commander710 has joined
280 2012-07-16 05:57:45 <midnightmagic> Sorry to hear that. Some of us do actually appreciate what you guys are doing, and are pretty realistic about the crazy uphill battles w/ the banks you're forced to endure.
281 2012-07-16 05:58:33 BeTep has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
282 2012-07-16 05:58:37 <nanotube> and others would also, if they weren't such whiny children. :)
283 2012-07-16 06:00:18 <midnightmagic> +1
284 2012-07-16 06:03:41 Ferroh has joined
285 2012-07-16 06:15:11 <copumpkin> are reorgs permitted beyond 100 blocks back?
286 2012-07-16 06:19:03 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
287 2012-07-16 06:20:07 [\\\] has joined
288 2012-07-16 06:20:34 <luke-jr> copumpkin: there are no limits on reorgs besides what the community decides it won't tolerate (and forks to reverse)
289 2012-07-16 06:21:09 <copumpkin> but the community right now is generally set on 100?
290 2012-07-16 06:22:33 <luke-jr> it's never happened
291 2012-07-16 06:22:47 <luke-jr> I presume tolerance would depend on how the reorg occurred
292 2012-07-16 06:25:38 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
293 2012-07-16 06:26:34 mamamt has joined
294 2012-07-16 06:31:14 Commander710 has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
295 2012-07-16 06:35:51 <midnightmagic> copumpkin: As far as I'm aware, a reorg can happen straight back to the last checkpoint.
296 2012-07-16 06:36:22 <midnightmagic> copumpkin: gmaxwell has said in the past that a reorg on that scale would be pretty horrendous.
297 2012-07-16 06:38:39 <copumpkin> just because of all the confusion in the process?
298 2012-07-16 06:39:02 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: Yes, reorgs are permitted back past 100 blocks. If the system imposed such an insanely small limit anyone who could mine 200 blocks could turn bitcoin off.
299 2012-07-16 06:39:29 <gmaxwell> (or really more likely 100 plus some more careful timing)
300 2012-07-16 06:39:56 <copumpkin> I see
301 2012-07-16 06:40:04 <midnightmagic> copumpkin: It would be a huge, nasty block storm. The high-bandwidth, high-capacity nodes would sort out first and begin working on another fork until all the blocks propagated everywhere, and there would probably be a bunch of forks as miners found other blocks on chains that were only partially updated (and then reorged again as new blocks came in out of order)
302 2012-07-16 06:40:09 <midnightmagic> yikes
303 2012-07-16 06:40:31 <copumpkin> someone needs to make a big-ass simulator :)
304 2012-07-16 06:40:52 <midnightmagic> I think amiller is doing something academic along those lines..
305 2012-07-16 06:41:00 <copumpkin> that'd be cool
306 2012-07-16 06:41:07 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: eh, 100 blocks wouldn't be some terribly problem to reorg onto, dunno what you're thinking there.
307 2012-07-16 06:41:28 <copumpkin> anyway, I must sleep
308 2012-07-16 06:41:29 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: No, I'm talking back to the last checkpoint.
309 2012-07-16 06:41:30 <copumpkin> thanks for the help!
310 2012-07-16 06:41:42 <midnightmagic> or earlier, since not everyone has the same checkpoints..
311 2012-07-16 06:43:13 <gmaxwell> In any case you can't have a "100 block limit" because I'd just cause half the network to hear mutually exclusive one 100 block forks, and then the network would be forever (until manual intervention at least) two networks. all it would take is mining a 100 block parallel fork and right when it gets to 100 long drop the last blocks on just so it only gets ahead on half the nodes (and then communications delays prevent it from going further)
312 2012-07-16 06:43:16 <midnightmagic> Checkpoint @ 185333 for e.g. was only inserted in June 19. Before that was 168000, in my checkpoints.cpp anyway.
313 2012-07-16 06:43:39 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: sure for checkpoints, no go figure out the fuel costs to do that. :)
314 2012-07-16 06:43:43 <gmaxwell> s/no/now/
315 2012-07-16 06:43:51 <amiller> mm, delicious lower bounds
316 2012-07-16 06:44:55 maaku has joined
317 2012-07-16 06:45:24 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: why wouldn't the chains eventually converge? is there some limit as to what blocks bitcoind will askfor?
318 2012-07-16 06:45:47 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: or does your example require one of those mass-connection sybil attacks?
319 2012-07-16 06:47:37 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: no, it requires the 100 block maximum reorg limit that luke thinks should exist and had managed to cause copumpkin to think did exist.
320 2012-07-16 06:48:18 <midnightmagic> it seems to me internally consistent blocks could be used just to exhaust bitcoind memory on most nodes. that would be attack enough, as I'm pretty sure ses.
321 2012-07-16 06:48:23 <amiller> gmaxwell, you are requiring a network partition though, right?
322 2012-07-16 06:48:25 <midnightmagic> stupid laptop..
323 2012-07-16 06:48:39 <gmaxwell> amiller: no I'm requring finite communication speed.
324 2012-07-16 06:48:52 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: er, they're not kept in memory.
325 2012-07-16 06:48:57 <midnightmagic> .. "as I'm pretty sure we don't do resource limitations bumpingnesses recovery so gracefully."
326 2012-07-16 06:49:35 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: ah.
327 2012-07-16 06:51:05 <amiller> if you assume a finite communication radius, and that the attacker doesn't have a head start, then everyone who matters already agrees on the 100th block back
328 2012-07-16 06:51:33 <amiller> they could mine to 200, but everyone would be past that by then
329 2012-07-16 06:51:53 <gmaxwell> amiller: if there is an N block limit on reorgs and N doesn't require infeasable resources to create, an attacker can create insoluable partitions by causing some nodes to be on one fork or anotherâ easiest for new nodes, feed them the bad data first. But even on existing ones, you can do a race right where the fork would hit the maximum lenght and let communications delays prevent convergence.
330 2012-07-16 06:52:54 <amiller> sorry, do you mean finite _known_ radius?
331 2012-07-16 06:52:54 <gmaxwell> amiller: they only have to tie.
332 2012-07-16 06:53:01 <amiller> like do we get to set the difficulty knowing that radius?
333 2012-07-16 06:53:10 <gmaxwell> Irrelevant.
334 2012-07-16 06:53:15 <amiller> not
335 2012-07-16 06:53:35 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I didn't say there should be a 100 block reorg limit; I said beyond that point should require user intervention :p
336 2012-07-16 06:53:51 <midnightmagic> .. because they couldn't correct the 100th block so long as the 101th was found before everyone had already agreed n-100 was X instead of the old Y.
337 2012-07-16 06:54:21 <amiller> it matters quite a bit if you get to set the parameters knowing that radius, if it's known it's called "synchronous" and if it's unknown it's called "partially synchronous"
338 2012-07-16 06:54:49 <gmaxwell> amiller: I can tie the network. I create a near tying fork. when I get to the 100th height I hold it and also extend the main fork. I give half the nodes fork a's last block, half fork b's last block.
339 2012-07-16 06:55:20 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: that requires partitioning sybil network doesn't it?
340 2012-07-16 06:55:23 <amiller> you can't tie the network with 49%
341 2012-07-16 06:55:31 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: No.
342 2012-07-16 06:55:49 <midnightmagic> but how do you control which half gets a or b?
343 2012-07-16 06:56:01 <amiller> not if the network is timely and the difficulty is set according to that radius
344 2012-07-16 06:56:23 <amiller> the network zooms along at like 50.5% even when you include the delay
345 2012-07-16 06:56:38 <amiller> because the difficulty is hard enough that mostly blocks get propagated before much effort is duplicated
346 2012-07-16 06:56:43 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: I don't
347 2012-07-16 06:56:56 TD has joined
348 2012-07-16 06:57:40 <midnightmagic> so this is a 66% attack? or are you creating a unity chain up to 100, then two blocks for 101.
349 2012-07-16 06:58:01 <midnightmagic> ah, just two blocks at the end, nm
350 2012-07-16 06:58:10 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: I the latter. Or I let the network create the one of the last two but then timing is hard.
351 2012-07-16 06:58:27 Mobius_ has joined
352 2012-07-16 06:58:42 <gmaxwell> amiller: I'm not sure where we're failing to reach an understanding.
353 2012-07-16 06:58:45 <midnightmagic> ah.. by "half" you just mean "some"
354 2012-07-16 06:59:24 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: not exactly half, of course, but a non-trivial partition. Which would never heal.
355 2012-07-16 07:00:12 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
356 2012-07-16 07:00:14 MobiusL has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
357 2012-07-16 07:00:21 <gmaxwell> The algorithim just doesn't work safely with automatic locking if there is any potential for an attacker to cut that deep.
358 2012-07-16 07:00:37 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: You'd be assuming things about the nature of the connected-ness of your connections, or you're connecting to some large number of bitcoind?
359 2012-07-16 07:01:19 <midnightmagic> anyway if user-intervention is required rather than there being a hard limit, then the discussion is kind of academic anyway isn't it?
360 2012-07-16 07:02:03 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: perhaps, it changes the failure modes at least.
361 2012-07-16 07:04:34 Silverion has joined
362 2012-07-16 07:04:54 RV___ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
363 2012-07-16 07:05:06 <amiller> if you tell me the strength of your attacker (49% is ok), and a security parameter k, i can tell you X, a good maximum number of blocks to wait for so the attacker has only an e^-k shot at forking someone before the cutoff
364 2012-07-16 07:05:06 [\\\] has joined
365 2012-07-16 07:05:50 <amiller> the number X doesn't depend on the radius, but i'll need to know the radius to set the difficulty correctly
366 2012-07-16 07:08:29 <gmaxwell> amiller: Yes, sure you can pick parameters so that he's unlikely to get ahead, but the point I'm maing is that consequences of a reorg under that model are entirely different.
367 2012-07-16 07:09:06 <gmaxwell> Instead of just being able to undo his own transactions he can cause the network to form an unresolvable partition.
368 2012-07-16 07:09:30 <amiller> but only with low probability...
369 2012-07-16 07:10:25 <amiller> it's not because he can't get ahead, but because he reaches the finish line in last place
370 2012-07-16 07:10:40 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
371 2012-07-16 07:11:08 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
372 2012-07-16 07:11:49 sytse has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
373 2012-07-16 07:13:08 <gmaxwell> No, not with low probablity. His hashpower is 49.999999999%. How many blocks do you need to get his success under one in 1000 assuming the difficulty gives 10 minute blocks and that a 2 minute radius?
374 2012-07-16 07:13:51 <amiller> the radius is irrelevant, but the answer depends on the 49.9999999%
375 2012-07-16 07:14:13 <amiller> i'd call that n=100000, because the advantage is 1+1/10000
376 2012-07-16 07:14:42 <amiller> the number of blocks required is ~n^2
377 2012-07-16 07:14:57 <gmaxwell> In any case, I'm just commenting on the repetition of a oft repeated bad idea "we can solve reorgs by refusing to perform big ones", noâ we can't. All that does is convert a one shot bad even on reorg into a perpetual forking attack. It's only safe if an attacker can't cause a reorg that deep, and if they can't you don't need it.
378 2012-07-16 07:15:12 <gmaxwell> s/even/event/
379 2012-07-16 07:15:50 <amiller> "It's only safe if an attacker can't cause a reorg that deep, and if they can't you don't need it." <--- right
380 2012-07-16 07:16:39 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: Ah, the block contents are written to disk, MapOrphanBlocks/etc are just effectively pointers then..
381 2012-07-16 07:18:45 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
382 2012-07-16 07:19:07 sytse has joined
383 2012-07-16 07:19:20 <midnightmagic> reactos?!
384 2012-07-16 07:19:38 <luke-jr> ⦠that was a random exclamation
385 2012-07-16 07:19:47 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
386 2012-07-16 07:20:03 <luke-jr> oh, you saw it when tower left
387 2012-07-16 07:20:41 <midnightmagic> oh.. I'm mixing reactos with amiga aros.
388 2012-07-16 07:21:01 <luke-jr> O.o
389 2012-07-16 07:21:12 <luke-jr> aros is different from Workbench?
390 2012-07-16 07:21:53 <midnightmagic> yes.
391 2012-07-16 07:26:17 tower has joined
392 2012-07-16 07:28:02 CodesInChaos has joined
393 2012-07-16 07:31:28 <[Tycho]> Reactos ? Where is it ?
394 2012-07-16 07:31:58 molecular has joined
395 2012-07-16 07:32:51 <c_k> reactos.org ?
396 2012-07-16 07:33:01 <midnightmagic> it looks like there's a tester for it here. :)
397 2012-07-16 07:33:22 jokc has joined
398 2012-07-16 07:35:39 <[Tycho]> I was asking about "[11:14] midnightmagic: reactos?!" :)
399 2012-07-16 07:35:57 <midnightmagic> yes me too!
400 2012-07-16 07:36:14 <[Tycho]> So why did you said that ?
401 2012-07-16 07:36:35 <midnightmagic> because there's a tester for it here, and I mixed it up with AROS, which would have been incredibly unusual.
402 2012-07-16 07:37:14 <[Tycho]> Cool.
403 2012-07-16 07:37:28 <[Tycho]> But how did you know that there is a tester for it ?
404 2012-07-16 07:37:52 <midnightmagic> tower was disconnected and his freenode cloak has reactos/tester/tower in it.
405 2012-07-16 07:38:26 <tower> пкÑÑеÑÑÐ¿Ñ [Tycho]
406 2012-07-16 07:38:37 <tower> greetings [Tycho]
407 2012-07-16 07:38:43 <[Tycho]> Hello.
408 2012-07-16 07:38:57 <tower> sry wrong kbd layout
409 2012-07-16 07:39:08 <midnightmagic> tower: Sorry. :) My mistake.
410 2012-07-16 07:39:20 jokc has quit (Quit: Yo!)
411 2012-07-16 07:40:13 <[Tycho]> Oh, I see it now. My client only shows hostname on joins :)
412 2012-07-16 07:40:50 maaku has joined
413 2012-07-16 07:40:52 <midnightmagic> love all the curious people here =]
414 2012-07-16 07:42:38 Marf has joined
415 2012-07-16 07:42:47 maaku has quit (Client Quit)
416 2012-07-16 07:43:00 Prattler has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
417 2012-07-16 07:55:05 LuaKT has joined
418 2012-07-16 07:57:23 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
419 2012-07-16 08:01:52 B0g4r7_ has joined
420 2012-07-16 08:03:04 graingert has joined
421 2012-07-16 08:04:35 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
422 2012-07-16 08:04:36 B0g4r7_ is now known as B0g4r7
423 2012-07-16 08:05:44 graingert_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
424 2012-07-16 08:07:48 TD has joined
425 2012-07-16 08:09:23 t3a has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
426 2012-07-16 08:17:27 mmoya has joined
427 2012-07-16 08:19:25 MC1984 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
428 2012-07-16 08:21:49 Prattler has joined
429 2012-07-16 08:21:50 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
430 2012-07-16 08:22:23 copumpkin has joined
431 2012-07-16 08:22:46 t3a has joined
432 2012-07-16 08:25:38 t7 has joined
433 2012-07-16 08:28:41 <coiax> graingert: You sent me a file link?
434 2012-07-16 08:29:00 da2ce7 has joined
435 2012-07-16 08:29:44 <graingert> coiax: a magical file link
436 2012-07-16 08:29:48 ahihi2 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
437 2012-07-16 08:33:01 Rabbit67890 has joined
438 2012-07-16 08:33:09 <coiax> graingert: What is it
439 2012-07-16 08:33:24 <graingert> No idea
440 2012-07-16 08:34:11 RazielZ has joined
441 2012-07-16 08:36:08 Commander710 has joined
442 2012-07-16 08:38:57 Joric has joined
443 2012-07-16 08:38:57 Joric has quit (Changing host)
444 2012-07-16 08:38:57 Joric has joined
445 2012-07-16 08:40:07 Rabbit67890 is now known as RainbowDashh
446 2012-07-16 08:40:28 ahihi2 has joined
447 2012-07-16 08:51:50 graingert has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
448 2012-07-16 08:52:32 <Commander710> hello
449 2012-07-16 08:52:55 <Commander710> i got a few questions concerning the bitcoin daemon
450 2012-07-16 08:54:07 <Commander710> my wallet.dat is in the .bitcoin directory. that's where i thought the bitcoind would normally take the wallet from.
451 2012-07-16 08:55:00 <Commander710> but if i type: getbalance, is doesn't display the correct balance. i have to start bitcoind with the -datadir=.bitcoin to get the correct balance displayed
452 2012-07-16 08:55:49 <Commander710> how can i tell bitcoind to always use the .bitcoin folder to look for the wallet.dat
453 2012-07-16 08:55:51 <Commander710> ?
454 2012-07-16 09:00:08 <josephcp> have you tried -rescan
455 2012-07-16 09:02:01 <kinlo> Commander710: do you have multiple .bitcoin directories?
456 2012-07-16 09:02:23 <kinlo> Commander710: it should be the .bitcoin directory in your home directory, not just any .bitcoin directory
457 2012-07-16 09:04:35 <Commander710> i have just the .bitcoin folder that was created by the setup
458 2012-07-16 09:11:59 <Commander710> and this is in my home dir
459 2012-07-16 09:13:17 slush has joined
460 2012-07-16 09:24:55 diki has joined
461 2012-07-16 09:27:55 RainbowDashh has quit (Quit: RainbowDashh)
462 2012-07-16 09:28:27 RainbowDashh has joined
463 2012-07-16 09:30:26 RainbowDashh has quit (Client Quit)
464 2012-07-16 09:30:44 RainbowDashh has joined
465 2012-07-16 09:30:45 RainbowDashh has quit (Excess Flood)
466 2012-07-16 09:31:17 RainbowDashh has joined
467 2012-07-16 09:32:24 Apexseals has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
468 2012-07-16 09:38:52 davout has joined
469 2012-07-16 09:38:52 davout has quit (Changing host)
470 2012-07-16 09:38:52 davout has joined
471 2012-07-16 09:42:10 leotreasure has joined
472 2012-07-16 09:44:08 Rabbit67890 has joined
473 2012-07-16 09:44:09 RainbowDashh has quit (Disconnected by services)
474 2012-07-16 09:44:12 Rabbit67890 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
475 2012-07-16 09:45:23 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
476 2012-07-16 09:45:27 AndyBotwin has quit (Quit: Saindo)
477 2012-07-16 09:47:05 AndyBotwin has joined
478 2012-07-16 09:57:42 RainbowDashh has joined
479 2012-07-16 09:59:08 RainbowDashh has quit (Client Quit)
480 2012-07-16 10:00:34 RainbowDashh has joined
481 2012-07-16 10:01:47 weather has joined
482 2012-07-16 10:05:37 weather is now known as BeTep
483 2012-07-16 10:09:36 RainbowDashh has quit (Quit: Laptop lid has been shut. D:)
484 2012-07-16 10:09:37 diki has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
485 2012-07-16 10:10:57 datagutt has joined
486 2012-07-16 10:13:09 sytse has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
487 2012-07-16 10:13:42 datagutt has quit (Client Quit)
488 2012-07-16 10:15:03 datagutt has joined
489 2012-07-16 10:15:58 diki has joined
490 2012-07-16 10:16:33 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
491 2012-07-16 10:17:06 copumpkin has joined
492 2012-07-16 10:17:21 RainbowDashh has joined
493 2012-07-16 10:20:18 sytse has joined
494 2012-07-16 10:20:42 RainbowDashh has quit (Client Quit)
495 2012-07-16 10:24:12 MC1984 has joined
496 2012-07-16 10:30:33 yellowhat has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
497 2012-07-16 10:32:46 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
498 2012-07-16 10:35:06 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
499 2012-07-16 10:36:16 skeledrew has joined
500 2012-07-16 10:50:48 RainbowDashh has joined
501 2012-07-16 10:53:33 maximi89 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
502 2012-07-16 10:56:36 Fanquake has joined
503 2012-07-16 10:59:11 jrmithdobbs has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
504 2012-07-16 11:01:24 jrmithdobbs has joined
505 2012-07-16 11:04:56 ivan\ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
506 2012-07-16 11:05:25 Tykling has quit (Excess Flood)
507 2012-07-16 11:07:00 yellowhat has joined
508 2012-07-16 11:08:03 ivan\ has joined
509 2012-07-16 11:08:26 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
510 2012-07-16 11:11:58 Icoin has joined
511 2012-07-16 11:17:25 agricocb has joined
512 2012-07-16 11:20:46 Tykling has joined
513 2012-07-16 11:21:10 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
514 2012-07-16 11:21:55 [\\\] has joined
515 2012-07-16 11:22:25 one_zero has quit ()
516 2012-07-16 11:32:00 jokc has joined
517 2012-07-16 11:33:32 MC1984 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
518 2012-07-16 11:33:40 MC1984 has joined
519 2012-07-16 11:34:30 meLon has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
520 2012-07-16 11:34:38 Clipse has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
521 2012-07-16 11:36:37 RainbowDashh has quit (Quit: QUIT (or PART?)! I broke textual derppp.)
522 2012-07-16 11:36:54 RainbowDashh has joined
523 2012-07-16 11:41:58 TimothyA has joined
524 2012-07-16 11:42:47 Rabbit67890 has joined
525 2012-07-16 11:42:47 Rabbit67890 has quit (Client Quit)
526 2012-07-16 11:42:47 RainbowDashh has quit (Disconnected by services)
527 2012-07-16 11:43:01 RainbowDashh has joined
528 2012-07-16 11:48:47 nameless has joined
529 2012-07-16 11:48:47 talso has joined
530 2012-07-16 11:48:47 copumpkin has joined
531 2012-07-16 11:49:43 phungus is now known as Guest62124
532 2012-07-16 11:50:27 Z0rZ0rZ0r has quit (Quit: Leaving)
533 2012-07-16 11:56:27 drizztbsd has joined
534 2012-07-16 11:58:04 theorbtwo has joined
535 2012-07-16 11:59:21 diki has quit (Quit: Bye)
536 2012-07-16 11:59:53 diki has joined
537 2012-07-16 12:00:14 danbri has joined
538 2012-07-16 12:06:19 drizztbsd has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
539 2012-07-16 12:07:22 setkeh has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
540 2012-07-16 12:07:38 setkeh has joined
541 2012-07-16 12:10:04 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened issue 1599 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1599>
542 2012-07-16 12:10:11 rdponticelli has joined
543 2012-07-16 12:11:06 RainbowDashh has quit (Quit: Laptop lid has been shut. D:)
544 2012-07-16 12:11:18 setkeh has quit (Client Quit)
545 2012-07-16 12:11:46 setkeh has joined
546 2012-07-16 12:12:12 jurov is now known as away!ldxjiixv@84.245.71.31|jurov
547 2012-07-16 12:14:10 galambo is now known as galambo__
548 2012-07-16 12:18:44 [\\\] has quit (Read error: No route to host)
549 2012-07-16 12:20:27 [\\\] has joined
550 2012-07-16 12:21:24 RainbowDashh has joined
551 2012-07-16 12:21:28 minimoose has joined
552 2012-07-16 12:24:36 Clipse has joined
553 2012-07-16 12:27:16 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
554 2012-07-16 12:34:07 zebedee_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
555 2012-07-16 12:34:40 darkee has joined
556 2012-07-16 12:34:58 [\\\] has joined
557 2012-07-16 12:36:17 darkee has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
558 2012-07-16 12:37:19 Clipse has quit (Quit: Clipse)
559 2012-07-16 12:38:14 jokc has left ()
560 2012-07-16 12:40:42 diki has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
561 2012-07-16 12:46:33 CodesInChaos has joined
562 2012-07-16 12:49:23 tg has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
563 2012-07-16 12:57:03 tg has joined
564 2012-07-16 12:58:18 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
565 2012-07-16 12:58:53 [\\\] has joined
566 2012-07-16 12:59:17 drizztbsd has joined
567 2012-07-16 13:08:48 slush has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
568 2012-07-16 13:10:12 WannaBeGeekster has joined
569 2012-07-16 13:13:09 sytse has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
570 2012-07-16 13:15:02 zooko has joined
571 2012-07-16 13:19:14 maaku has joined
572 2012-07-16 13:20:14 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
573 2012-07-16 13:20:31 sytse has joined
574 2012-07-16 13:20:34 RazielZ has joined
575 2012-07-16 13:21:55 localhost has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
576 2012-07-16 13:25:38 localhost has joined
577 2012-07-16 13:27:33 setkeh has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
578 2012-07-16 13:29:44 Fanquake has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
579 2012-07-16 13:32:51 Forexmasterja has joined
580 2012-07-16 13:34:36 <Forexmasterja> Is there an IRC channel for MTGOX for support, I am having a problem I would like a technical perosn from MTGOX to look into.
581 2012-07-16 13:36:34 setkeh has joined
582 2012-07-16 13:38:45 <helo> yes, and you get one guess as to what it is ;)
583 2012-07-16 13:39:38 jurov is now known as jurov|away
584 2012-07-16 13:43:29 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
585 2012-07-16 13:47:07 darkee is now known as !~darkee@gateway/tor-sasl/darkee|darkee
586 2012-07-16 13:47:52 pickett has joined
587 2012-07-16 13:56:42 MiningBuddy- is now known as MiningBuddy
588 2012-07-16 13:59:01 <zooko> The main one in my opinion only arises when you try to take a "real world events" perspective.
589 2012-07-16 13:59:21 <zooko> To explain what I mean let's contrast this symmetric-keyed contrast introduction with a public-keyed secure introduction.
590 2012-07-16 13:59:25 drizztbsd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
591 2012-07-16 13:59:33 <epscy> yes let's
592 2012-07-16 13:59:33 <zooko> Ah, whoops, that was intended for #tahoe-lafs.
593 2012-07-16 13:59:35 <zooko> :-)
594 2012-07-16 13:59:58 <zooko> Please join #tahoe-lafs in order to contrast a symmetric-keyed secure introduction with a public-keyed secure introduction. â
595 2012-07-16 14:00:16 drizztbsd has joined
596 2012-07-16 14:02:14 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
597 2012-07-16 14:02:14 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
598 2012-07-16 14:02:21 bedouin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
599 2012-07-16 14:06:25 CodesInChaos has joined
600 2012-07-16 14:11:22 smtmnyz has quit ()
601 2012-07-16 14:12:34 luke-jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
602 2012-07-16 14:12:40 luke-jr_ has joined
603 2012-07-16 14:15:08 Diablo-D3 has joined
604 2012-07-16 14:16:29 B0g4r7 has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
605 2012-07-16 14:18:03 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
606 2012-07-16 14:18:55 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
607 2012-07-16 14:20:01 B0g4r7_ has joined
608 2012-07-16 14:20:36 copumpkin has joined
609 2012-07-16 14:21:43 egecko has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
610 2012-07-16 14:24:01 zooko has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
611 2012-07-16 14:27:43 Forexmasterja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
612 2012-07-16 14:32:25 bedouin has joined
613 2012-07-16 14:33:33 PlotCitizen has joined
614 2012-07-16 14:34:08 leotreasure has quit (Quit: leotreasure)
615 2012-07-16 14:35:08 theorbtwo has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
616 2012-07-16 14:35:43 <PlotCitizen> Hello. I'm trying to use cURL to access the JSON-RPC (since I can't use bitcoind) in order to sign a message. How would I go about doing that? I can't seem to find anything helpful by searching.
617 2012-07-16 14:38:12 Forexmasterja has joined
618 2012-07-16 14:41:48 Z0rZ0rZ0r has joined
619 2012-07-16 14:43:42 p0s has joined
620 2012-07-16 14:44:13 dooglus has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
621 2012-07-16 14:46:43 Cablesaurus has joined
622 2012-07-16 14:48:20 dooglus has joined
623 2012-07-16 14:48:38 <jgarzik> PlotCitizen: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_reference_%28JSON-RPC%29#Command_line_.28cURL.29
624 2012-07-16 14:49:20 <PlotCitizen> I've read that, and I don't think it's particularly helpful.
625 2012-07-16 14:50:20 pickett has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
626 2012-07-16 14:51:06 dooglus has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
627 2012-07-16 14:51:19 Marf has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
628 2012-07-16 14:52:20 denisx has joined
629 2012-07-16 14:52:30 dooglus has joined
630 2012-07-16 14:52:30 dooglus has quit (Changing host)
631 2012-07-16 14:52:30 dooglus has joined
632 2012-07-16 14:52:37 Apexseals has joined
633 2012-07-16 14:54:30 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
634 2012-07-16 14:55:14 <PlotCitizen> It's ok, I found it.
635 2012-07-16 14:55:57 [\\\] has joined
636 2012-07-16 14:57:06 pickett has joined
637 2012-07-16 15:00:17 toffoo has quit ()
638 2012-07-16 15:00:33 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
639 2012-07-16 15:00:51 D34TH has joined
640 2012-07-16 15:04:59 PlotCitizen has quit (Quit: PlotCitizen)
641 2012-07-16 15:05:49 [\\\] has joined
642 2012-07-16 15:07:35 unknown45682 has quit ()
643 2012-07-16 15:13:29 maaku has joined
644 2012-07-16 15:14:38 torsthaldo has joined
645 2012-07-16 15:19:26 gavinandresen has joined
646 2012-07-16 15:19:50 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
647 2012-07-16 15:24:08 Clipse has joined
648 2012-07-16 15:24:26 maaku has joined
649 2012-07-16 15:25:19 Guest62124 has quit (Quit: leaving)
650 2012-07-16 15:30:51 phungi_ has joined
651 2012-07-16 15:31:45 topace has quit (Changing host)
652 2012-07-16 15:31:45 topace has joined
653 2012-07-16 15:32:17 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: A day without sunshine is like .... night)
654 2012-07-16 15:32:56 phungi_ is now known as phungis
655 2012-07-16 15:33:40 phungis is now known as phungus
656 2012-07-16 15:37:35 drizztbsd has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
657 2012-07-16 15:37:41 drizzt_ has joined
658 2012-07-16 15:38:07 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
659 2012-07-16 15:38:14 TD has joined
660 2012-07-16 15:39:05 zooko has joined
661 2012-07-16 15:39:23 maaku has joined
662 2012-07-16 15:43:09 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
663 2012-07-16 15:48:43 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
664 2012-07-16 15:52:04 jurov is now known as away!ldxjiixv@84.245.71.31|jurov
665 2012-07-16 15:55:32 zooko has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
666 2012-07-16 15:55:37 zooko` has joined
667 2012-07-16 15:57:33 drizzt_ is now known as drizztbsd
668 2012-07-16 16:00:29 Turingi has joined
669 2012-07-16 16:00:29 Turingi has quit (Changing host)
670 2012-07-16 16:00:29 Turingi has joined
671 2012-07-16 16:00:37 t7 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204])
672 2012-07-16 16:05:00 phungus has quit (Quit: leaving)
673 2012-07-16 16:11:25 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
674 2012-07-16 16:12:49 jokc has joined
675 2012-07-16 16:14:04 phungus has joined
676 2012-07-16 16:14:08 unknown45682 has joined
677 2012-07-16 16:14:31 zooko` is now known as zooko
678 2012-07-16 16:14:58 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
679 2012-07-16 16:31:25 zooko has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
680 2012-07-16 16:32:56 PlotCitizen has joined
681 2012-07-16 16:33:32 RainbowDashh has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
682 2012-07-16 16:35:00 RainbowDashh has joined
683 2012-07-16 16:40:51 jokc has quit (Quit: Yo!)
684 2012-07-16 16:42:58 PlotCitizen has quit (Changing host)
685 2012-07-16 16:42:58 PlotCitizen has joined
686 2012-07-16 16:58:22 sytse has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
687 2012-07-16 16:59:23 graingert has joined
688 2012-07-16 17:00:07 sytse has joined
689 2012-07-16 17:01:56 PlotCitizen has quit (Quit: PlotCitizen)
690 2012-07-16 17:07:23 rdponticelli has joined
691 2012-07-16 17:12:50 RainbowDashh has quit (Quit: Laptop lid has been shut. D:)
692 2012-07-16 17:14:22 [\\\] is now known as imsaguy
693 2012-07-16 17:22:16 da2ce7-desktop has joined
694 2012-07-16 17:22:21 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
695 2012-07-16 17:23:06 Zarutian has joined
696 2012-07-16 17:23:07 tower has joined
697 2012-07-16 17:24:31 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
698 2012-07-16 17:28:04 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
699 2012-07-16 17:28:28 MC1984 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
700 2012-07-16 17:29:44 pusle has joined
701 2012-07-16 17:32:38 AndyBotwin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
702 2012-07-16 17:34:34 tower has joined
703 2012-07-16 17:37:07 dvide has joined
704 2012-07-16 17:37:35 paul0 has joined
705 2012-07-16 17:44:11 luke-jr_ is now known as luke-jr
706 2012-07-16 17:44:37 d4de has joined
707 2012-07-16 17:52:51 sacredchao has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
708 2012-07-16 17:53:07 RainbowDashh has joined
709 2012-07-16 17:54:07 localhost has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
710 2012-07-16 17:54:07 sacredchao has joined
711 2012-07-16 18:04:52 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: gruez opened issue 1601 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1601> || gruez opened issue 1600 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1600>
712 2012-07-16 18:08:45 drizztbsd has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
713 2012-07-16 18:09:08 drizztbsd has joined
714 2012-07-16 18:17:47 Joric has quit ()
715 2012-07-16 18:23:00 <OneEyed> Any reason why this transaction would not be included in the last two blocks? http://blockchain.info/tx-index/12410217/a014310c466af92f52c46f8fd6a53cdabfd518e22041ac38345c028d4c807954
716 2012-07-16 18:23:57 TD has joined
717 2012-07-16 18:25:31 <OneEyed> (or would not be propagated a lot, I cannot see it in my bitcoind, this is GLBSE->me)
718 2012-07-16 18:26:03 topace has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
719 2012-07-16 18:29:00 <BlueMatt> hmmm...can we make 0-value txouts invalid?
720 2012-07-16 18:29:13 <BlueMatt> could make for a nasty dos
721 2012-07-16 18:35:17 mamamt has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
722 2012-07-16 18:36:24 sirk390 has joined
723 2012-07-16 18:36:33 ThomasV has joined
724 2012-07-16 18:37:18 unknown45682 has quit ()
725 2012-07-16 18:42:19 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
726 2012-07-16 18:43:28 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: any DoS with 0-value txouts could be easily accomplished with 1-satoshi txouts (spend 1 BTC and you get potentially 100,000,000 1-satoshi outputs to play with)
727 2012-07-16 18:46:45 dmr has joined
728 2012-07-16 18:47:01 <LuaKT> Quick question, if I add multiple recipients does it count as a single transaction and cost only 1 fee?
729 2012-07-16 18:47:10 <LuaKT> Or do I still pay as if each person is a transaction
730 2012-07-16 18:47:18 <copumpkin> only one transaction
731 2012-07-16 18:47:23 <LuaKT> Great, thanks
732 2012-07-16 18:52:33 torsthaldo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
733 2012-07-16 18:52:56 unknown45682 has joined
734 2012-07-16 18:53:01 devrandom has joined
735 2012-07-16 18:54:17 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
736 2012-07-16 18:55:43 davout has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
737 2012-07-16 18:59:20 pusle has quit ()
738 2012-07-16 18:59:58 Maged has joined
739 2012-07-16 19:01:32 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: yea, I was just thinking for pruned nodes though, its no huge deal, but it does mean you get infinite unspent outputs without costing anything instead of a limited amount
740 2012-07-16 19:01:49 <gavinandresen> 1 satoshi is approximately equal to zero
741 2012-07-16 19:01:53 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: 0-value txouts could fork the blockchain (so requires P2SH-alike rollout), and is used by p2pool
742 2012-07-16 19:02:09 <luke-jr> making them invalid, I mean
743 2012-07-16 19:02:12 <BlueMatt> why does p2pool use it?
744 2012-07-16 19:02:23 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it uses a 0-value output for its merged mining
745 2012-07-16 19:02:28 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: close, but not exact ;)
746 2012-07-16 19:02:47 d4de has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
747 2012-07-16 19:02:53 <BlueMatt> why use an output for merged mining instead of coinbase???
748 2012-07-16 19:02:54 <gavinandresen> Making 0-satoshi inputs invalid might be worth thinking about. That would make 0-satoshi outputs immediately prune-able
749 2012-07-16 19:03:16 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: outputs are at the end, so they can distribute midstates instead of the full coinbase txn
750 2012-07-16 19:03:24 <BlueMatt> well, if someone actually uses it, its not a great idea imho, but I dont see why it should be used...
751 2012-07-16 19:04:01 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I think it would be nice to define "If the first opcode is OP_RETURN, the output cannot be spent and need not be indexed" formally
752 2012-07-16 19:04:31 <gavinandresen> zero is a really useful number; I could imagine zero-value outputs/inputs to be used by transaction validation services that just want to sign transactions and say "I stand behind this"
753 2012-07-16 19:04:40 <luke-jr> and encourage stuff like p2pool to use it
754 2012-07-16 19:05:15 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: OP_FALSE would probably be the right opcode to use for that.
755 2012-07-16 19:05:16 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: you don't need an input to add a signature
756 2012-07-16 19:05:16 <[Tycho]> Sometimes I wanted to use transactions with no outputs, but AFAIR this is not allowed :(
757 2012-07-16 19:05:19 <BlueMatt> no, putting that stuff in an unpruneable txout should be highly discouraged
758 2012-07-16 19:05:32 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: OP_FALSE could be ignored by later code; OP_RETURN prevents anything further from executing
759 2012-07-16 19:05:47 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: wait, midstate of what?
760 2012-07-16 19:05:54 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: of the coinbase transaction
761 2012-07-16 19:06:12 <BlueMatt> wait...what?
762 2012-07-16 19:06:18 <BlueMatt> they are distributing what, exactly?
763 2012-07-16 19:06:19 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: normal merged mining requires that the merged chains distribute the full coinbase txn to link the merged-merkle-tree to the proof
764 2012-07-16 19:06:36 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: ? I mean "OP_FALSE" as an IsStandard() scriptPubKey meaning "you can prune this output immediately."
765 2012-07-16 19:06:52 <luke-jr> by putting their merged-merkle-tree in the last output, they can replace that with the midstate of the coinbase txn hash, just prior to the merged-tree
766 2012-07-16 19:07:15 <TD> please don't remove zero-value inputs/outputs
767 2012-07-16 19:07:19 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: ah, but then they can't throw extra junk after it like p2pool wants to do ;)
768 2012-07-16 19:07:22 theorbtwo has joined
769 2012-07-16 19:07:34 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ah, still that should be highly discouraged
770 2012-07-16 19:07:47 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: oh, they want extra junk. Ok, then PUSH-up-to-N-bytes OP_FALSE
771 2012-07-16 19:07:56 <BlueMatt> its a cool optimization, but it creates unpruneable outputs for pretty much no reason
772 2012-07-16 19:08:08 <BlueMatt> I think alt-chains can handle the extra bw...
773 2012-07-16 19:08:25 <BlueMatt> TD: what use-case do you have for it?
774 2012-07-16 19:08:32 <TD> there are some contracts on the wiki that use them
775 2012-07-16 19:08:40 <BlueMatt> mmm
776 2012-07-16 19:08:42 <TD> of course they can use 1satoshi outputs/inputs too, but that's lame
777 2012-07-16 19:08:54 <TD> disk space is cheap, after all. i don't see it as being a big deal.
778 2012-07-16 19:09:07 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: IMO, easier to just check scriptPubKey[0] == OP_RETURN
779 2012-07-16 19:09:46 <BlueMatt> TD: I think the limiting factor (after script checking) of pruning full nodes is looking up txouts in the db, which is a function of the number of outputs unspent...
780 2012-07-16 19:09:57 * TD shrugs
781 2012-07-16 19:10:08 <TD> the fate of bitcoin is to grow and grow. fortunately that's also true of storage.
782 2012-07-16 19:10:18 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: if scriptPubKey[0]==OP_RETURN is used as "don't index this"â¦
783 2012-07-16 19:10:30 <BlueMatt> its not a big deal, really, but still people should avoid using 0-outputs for no real gain (if there is another way to do it)
784 2012-07-16 19:10:49 <TD> there is another way to do it, use a 1 satoshi output, but there's no point in requiring this
785 2012-07-16 19:11:03 <TD> let's not over-optimize ...
786 2012-07-16 19:11:06 <BlueMatt> meh, whatever
787 2012-07-16 19:11:19 <BlueMatt> if there is a use-case for it, fine, I just wasnt aware anyone was using it
788 2012-07-16 19:11:29 <BlueMatt> (but, seriously, p2pool really shouldnt be doing that)
789 2012-07-16 19:11:56 <BlueMatt> (any data in a 0-value out can always be stuffed in a OP_DROP anyway...)
790 2012-07-16 19:12:52 <BlueMatt> forrestv: can you start the 0-value txout in p2pool coinbases with OP_RETURN and then the hash instead of the hash?
791 2012-07-16 19:13:27 gfinn has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
792 2012-07-16 19:13:51 topace has joined
793 2012-07-16 19:14:04 <BlueMatt> in other news, finally have some nice test cases which are run on bitcoinj and now have a tool which pulls in the same test cases and throws the blocks at bitcoind to make sure both accept the same blocks
794 2012-07-16 19:14:09 <TD> cool!
795 2012-07-16 19:14:38 <gavinandresen> yeah, cool!
796 2012-07-16 19:14:56 <gavinandresen> ... although rejecting the same set of blocks is just as important....
797 2012-07-16 19:15:03 <BlueMatt> it checks that too
798 2012-07-16 19:15:09 <gavinandresen> really cool!
799 2012-07-16 19:15:28 <BlueMatt> another topic, can we make bitcoind never send blocks it found to be invalid to nodes requesting them
800 2012-07-16 19:15:50 <gmaxwell> Er. Why is that desirable?
801 2012-07-16 19:16:15 <gmaxwell> If it doesn't announce them that should be sufficient. Doing something more narrow than that may making troubleshooting much harder.
802 2012-07-16 19:16:54 <BlueMatt> just seems wrong when bitcoind is expected to verify blocks and then provide that info to spv nodes
803 2012-07-16 19:17:22 <BlueMatt> if a spv node is on a fork, any bitcoind will keep that fork going on that node, even if it thinks that fork is invalid
804 2012-07-16 19:17:24 <gavinandresen> better might be to add an extra piece of data that says "valid/invalid/not sure" ... and maybe a boolean for whether or not it's in the main chain
805 2012-07-16 19:17:46 <gavinandresen> but then we'd have to think about what would happen if an attacker just simply lied
806 2012-07-16 19:17:52 <BlueMatt> s/giving that fork/extending that fork/
807 2012-07-16 19:18:39 <BlueMatt> an attacker lying doesnt change much there, they can already just not forward blocks for the same result
808 2012-07-16 19:18:51 <TD> invalid blocks should not be in the best chain
809 2012-07-16 19:18:57 <TD> so why is that an issue?
810 2012-07-16 19:19:09 <TD> the remote bitcoind will send the valid parts of the chain in response to getblocks
811 2012-07-16 19:19:52 <BlueMatt> a->b a->c (c is found to be invalid) c->d if a spv node is on c, and asks a bitcoind for the latest blocks, bitcoind will send d
812 2012-07-16 19:20:05 <BlueMatt> it should never really be an issue, but it seems wrong...
813 2012-07-16 19:21:00 <BlueMatt> (or...I cant really think of a way to make that into a useful or really any attack, but...)
814 2012-07-16 19:21:21 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: consider that one *real issue* we have right now is that we need to start forwarding blocks before checking themâ¦
815 2012-07-16 19:21:22 <TD> i don't think it will ?
816 2012-07-16 19:21:39 <BlueMatt> TD: Im 99% sure it does
817 2012-07-16 19:21:45 <TD> i think bitcoind will discard d as invalid and when the client does a getblocks, will tell it about the next best valid block
818 2012-07-16 19:22:34 <TD> the block locator states where the peer is in on the chain. getblocks then walks back to find the earliest point the client already has on the best chain
819 2012-07-16 19:22:34 <BlueMatt> if its invalid pow, it will, if d is otherwise valid, but eg c has a coinbase which tries to generate 100000BTC, bitcoind will send d
820 2012-07-16 19:23:28 <TD> ok, well i might be wrong, i'd have to check the code. my memory was that getblocks will only ever provide you with the best valid chain
821 2012-07-16 19:23:58 <BlueMatt> CBlockLocator::GetBlockIndex() just searches in mapBlockIndex
822 2012-07-16 19:24:12 <BlueMatt> and c and d will be left in mapBlockIndex, though not connected
823 2012-07-16 19:25:15 <TD> seems like a bug in getblocks
824 2012-07-16 19:26:22 <BlueMatt> yea, I think we should change it but, again, "all bugs are features" and i dont see how to use it to do anything nasty
825 2012-07-16 19:26:53 RainbowDashh has quit (Quit: Laptop lid has been shut. D:)
826 2012-07-16 19:27:24 igetgames has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
827 2012-07-16 19:27:39 <luke-jr> "all bugs are features" IMO does not apply to the p2p protocol
828 2012-07-16 19:29:19 igetgames has joined
829 2012-07-16 19:30:30 cctvsmg has joined
830 2012-07-16 19:37:55 cctvsmg has quit (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org)
831 2012-07-16 19:38:40 galambo has joined
832 2012-07-16 19:41:04 galambo__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
833 2012-07-16 19:41:44 da2ce7-desktop has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
834 2012-07-16 19:43:26 topace has quit (Changing host)
835 2012-07-16 19:43:26 topace has joined
836 2012-07-16 19:44:00 dmr has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
837 2012-07-16 19:45:49 egecko has joined
838 2012-07-16 19:54:05 Maged has quit (Disconnected by services)
839 2012-07-16 19:54:12 Maged_ has joined
840 2012-07-16 19:54:23 Maged_ is now known as Maged
841 2012-07-16 19:55:47 osmosis has joined
842 2012-07-16 19:55:56 Turingi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
843 2012-07-16 19:56:36 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
844 2012-07-16 19:56:51 hnz has joined
845 2012-07-16 19:57:25 torsthaldo has joined
846 2012-07-16 19:58:26 genjix has joined
847 2012-07-16 19:59:02 sytse has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
848 2012-07-16 20:00:25 <eian> Is the guy behind blockchain info in here?
849 2012-07-16 20:00:46 <copumpkin> not as far as I know
850 2012-07-16 20:00:46 <luke-jr> not usually
851 2012-07-16 20:00:50 <copumpkin> he doesn't come on IRC much
852 2012-07-16 20:01:20 <genjix> sipa: my internet is being slow right now, but i think there's a missing BN_clear_free(bn) in CKey::GetSecret()
853 2012-07-16 20:01:45 <eian> what's his nick?
854 2012-07-16 20:03:22 B0g4r7__ has joined
855 2012-07-16 20:03:51 <genjix> sipa: is that const bignum supposed to be free'ed after
856 2012-07-16 20:04:05 <gavinandresen> sipa was on his way to Iceland last I heard
857 2012-07-16 20:04:18 <gavinandresen> (only he spelled it funny)
858 2012-07-16 20:04:46 <genjix> ah ok
859 2012-07-16 20:04:48 B0g4r7_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
860 2012-07-16 20:06:03 <gavinandresen> I updated the JSON-RPC API list on the wiki to include the raw transaction calls, and wrote https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Raw_Transactions
861 2012-07-16 20:06:09 <BlueMatt> genjix: sipa is on vacation till the end of the month
862 2012-07-16 20:06:22 sytse has joined
863 2012-07-16 20:08:04 Tykling has quit (Excess Flood)
864 2012-07-16 20:09:17 Tykling has joined
865 2012-07-16 20:11:56 <eian> genjix, does libbitcoin use blocking i/o? If not, is it using something like libevent?
866 2012-07-16 20:13:06 Tykling has quit (Excess Flood)
867 2012-07-16 20:16:18 Tykling has joined
868 2012-07-16 20:16:46 skeledrew has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
869 2012-07-16 20:16:54 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
870 2012-07-16 20:17:06 skeledrew has joined
871 2012-07-16 20:18:20 drizztbsd has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
872 2012-07-16 20:18:42 RazielZ has joined
873 2012-07-16 20:18:45 RazielZ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
874 2012-07-16 20:18:50 Tykling has quit (Excess Flood)
875 2012-07-16 20:20:00 Joric has joined
876 2012-07-16 20:21:24 sirk390 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
877 2012-07-16 20:24:50 sirk390 has joined
878 2012-07-16 20:25:22 Gnaffel has joined
879 2012-07-16 20:25:26 <genjix> eian: non-blocking io. libevent is nice. i'm using asio which is better.
880 2012-07-16 20:25:47 Tykling has joined
881 2012-07-16 20:25:51 phma has joined
882 2012-07-16 20:26:43 Cablesaurus has joined
883 2012-07-16 20:34:37 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
884 2012-07-16 20:35:23 vigilyn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
885 2012-07-16 20:36:02 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
886 2012-07-16 20:37:01 weex has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
887 2012-07-16 20:38:39 weex has joined
888 2012-07-16 20:38:40 weex has quit (Changing host)
889 2012-07-16 20:38:40 weex has joined
890 2012-07-16 20:42:22 Detritus has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
891 2012-07-16 20:43:38 gfinn has joined
892 2012-07-16 20:47:22 Detritus has joined
893 2012-07-16 20:47:58 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
894 2012-07-16 20:48:01 Joric has joined
895 2012-07-16 20:48:34 Maged has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
896 2012-07-16 20:51:09 Tykling has quit (Excess Flood)
897 2012-07-16 20:51:14 Maged has joined
898 2012-07-16 20:51:43 vigilyn has joined
899 2012-07-16 20:53:17 dlb76 has joined
900 2012-07-16 20:53:48 Tykling has joined
901 2012-07-16 20:53:50 Tykling has quit (Excess Flood)
902 2012-07-16 20:54:22 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
903 2012-07-16 20:58:47 rdponticelli has joined
904 2012-07-16 21:02:09 Tykling has joined
905 2012-07-16 21:02:48 CodesInChaos has joined
906 2012-07-16 21:02:50 torsthaldo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
907 2012-07-16 21:05:01 sirk390 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
908 2012-07-16 21:10:22 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, would it be reasonable to assume no block will ever be > 10MB?
909 2012-07-16 21:11:43 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: right now there is a size limit on blocks of 1MB, changing that will mean a hard fork. If it is ever changed, my guess is it would be to a floating size determined by miners
910 2012-07-16 21:12:23 <phantomcircuit> hmm
911 2012-07-16 21:12:32 <phantomcircuit> so yes but only if you're prepared to change it
912 2012-07-16 21:12:42 chmod755 has joined
913 2012-07-16 21:12:45 <phantomcircuit> but a change would be a one time expensive conversion so it's probably ok
914 2012-07-16 21:13:03 <kinlo> do clients flat out reject blocks > 1mb?
915 2012-07-16 21:13:07 <luke-jr> yes
916 2012-07-16 21:14:17 d4de has joined
917 2012-07-16 21:14:17 d4de has quit (Changing host)
918 2012-07-16 21:14:17 d4de has joined
919 2012-07-16 21:17:01 chmod755 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
920 2012-07-16 21:17:02 weex_ has joined
921 2012-07-16 21:19:27 weex has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
922 2012-07-16 21:19:33 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
923 2012-07-16 21:19:41 weex_ is now known as weex
924 2012-07-16 21:19:45 weex has quit (Changing host)
925 2012-07-16 21:19:45 weex has joined
926 2012-07-16 21:20:25 Maged has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
927 2012-07-16 21:23:07 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: mariosal opened issue 1602 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1602>
928 2012-07-16 21:23:56 phungus is now known as phungie
929 2012-07-16 21:24:00 phungi is now known as phungus
930 2012-07-16 21:25:08 rdponticelli_ has joined
931 2012-07-16 21:25:33 rdponticelli has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
932 2012-07-16 21:29:07 torsthaldo has joined
933 2012-07-16 21:38:16 eoss has joined
934 2012-07-16 21:38:16 eoss has quit (Changing host)
935 2012-07-16 21:38:16 eoss has joined
936 2012-07-16 21:44:38 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
937 2012-07-16 21:45:07 D34TH_ has joined
938 2012-07-16 21:45:36 LuaKT has quit ()
939 2012-07-16 21:46:10 D34TH__ has joined
940 2012-07-16 21:46:11 jurov is now known as jurov|away
941 2012-07-16 21:49:27 D34TH has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
942 2012-07-16 21:50:12 D34TH__ is now known as D34TH
943 2012-07-16 21:50:19 D34TH has quit (Changing host)
944 2012-07-16 21:50:19 D34TH has joined
945 2012-07-16 21:50:27 <lianj> how is http://blockexplorer.com/q/hashestowin calculated?
946 2012-07-16 21:50:45 D34TH_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
947 2012-07-16 21:50:52 genjix has left ()
948 2012-07-16 21:51:05 <lianj> also /q/probability
949 2012-07-16 21:56:17 Maged has joined
950 2012-07-16 21:56:24 galambo is now known as galambo_
951 2012-07-16 21:56:47 <BlueMatt> /q/probability is probably just a current diff * constant of diff 1
952 2012-07-16 21:57:04 <BlueMatt> hashestowin you can calculate from that
953 2012-07-16 21:57:28 <lianj> thanks. let me try :)
954 2012-07-16 22:00:26 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
955 2012-07-16 22:06:20 torsthaldo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
956 2012-07-16 22:06:22 toffoo has joined
957 2012-07-16 22:06:31 torsthaldo has joined
958 2012-07-16 22:06:31 torsthaldo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
959 2012-07-16 22:07:57 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Don't push the red button!)
960 2012-07-16 22:08:28 <D34TH> bluematt, i have an error extracing the files
961 2012-07-16 22:08:29 <D34TH> D:
962 2012-07-16 22:09:13 twobitcoins__ is now known as twobitcoins
963 2012-07-16 22:10:50 <luke-jr> XD
964 2012-07-16 22:11:04 <D34TH> meh, i give up
965 2012-07-16 22:11:23 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
966 2012-07-16 22:12:32 <BlueMatt> D34TH: error extracting?
967 2012-07-16 22:12:38 <D34TH> yep
968 2012-07-16 22:12:45 <D34TH> bbl
969 2012-07-16 22:12:58 <BlueMatt> do you have xzutils installed?
970 2012-07-16 22:14:05 [Tycho] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
971 2012-07-16 22:15:38 <lianj> BlueMatt: yay, although my hashestowin calc is off by one :|
972 2012-07-16 22:16:58 graingert has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
973 2012-07-16 22:19:04 coiax has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
974 2012-07-16 22:20:01 <BlueMatt> round up?
975 2012-07-16 22:21:02 coiax has joined
976 2012-07-16 22:21:09 <lianj> i guess. btw probability is 1.0 / hashestowin
977 2012-07-16 22:21:19 <BlueMatt> yep
978 2012-07-16 22:22:05 ovidiusoft has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
979 2012-07-16 22:23:40 elux has joined
980 2012-07-16 22:24:31 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
981 2012-07-16 22:25:57 Maged has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
982 2012-07-16 22:26:29 <lianj> BlueMatt: hm, but on bbe side. /q/probability == 1.0 / (/q/hashestowin + 1)
983 2012-07-16 22:28:56 <D34TH> bluematt: i do
984 2012-07-16 22:29:50 <BlueMatt> lianj: according to my calculator, floor(1/prob) == hashestowin
985 2012-07-16 22:29:58 <BlueMatt> which seems like how bbe probably calculates it
986 2012-07-16 22:30:05 <BlueMatt> D34TH: whats the error?
987 2012-07-16 22:30:10 <D34TH> it just stops
988 2012-07-16 22:30:20 <D34TH> thats it
989 2012-07-16 22:30:21 <BlueMatt> -v?
990 2012-07-16 22:30:30 <D34TH> sec, gotta restart it
991 2012-07-16 22:30:40 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
992 2012-07-16 22:30:47 <D34TH> there was a kernel update
993 2012-07-16 22:31:21 <BlueMatt> what version of xz/liblzma do you have? (mine is "liblzma 5.1.0alpha")
994 2012-07-16 22:33:06 <D34TH> same
995 2012-07-16 22:35:32 <BlueMatt> hmm... tar xvf ubuntu.tar.xz works fine for me
996 2012-07-16 22:36:10 <D34TH> i just xz'ed it and now im going to tar it
997 2012-07-16 22:36:10 <BlueMatt> well...works up to an error, but it untars everything before the error afaict
998 2012-07-16 22:36:15 <D34TH> and see if it works that way
999 2012-07-16 22:37:04 copumpkin has joined
1000 2012-07-16 22:39:05 graingert has joined
1001 2012-07-16 22:45:17 Joric_ has joined
1002 2012-07-16 22:45:18 Joric_ has quit (Changing host)
1003 2012-07-16 22:45:18 Joric_ has joined
1004 2012-07-16 22:46:02 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1005 2012-07-16 22:46:37 <D34TH> it worked
1006 2012-07-16 22:46:38 <D34TH> :D
1007 2012-07-16 22:46:57 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
1008 2012-07-16 22:47:34 Joric_ is now known as Joric
1009 2012-07-16 22:48:27 danbri has joined
1010 2012-07-16 22:48:30 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1011 2012-07-16 22:49:43 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1012 2012-07-16 22:50:12 elux has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1013 2012-07-16 22:51:06 elux has joined
1014 2012-07-16 22:51:08 elux has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1015 2012-07-16 22:51:31 elux has joined
1016 2012-07-16 22:51:31 elux has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1017 2012-07-16 22:55:20 torsthaldo has joined
1018 2012-07-16 22:55:28 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
1019 2012-07-16 22:55:41 minimoose has joined
1020 2012-07-16 22:56:27 coiax has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1021 2012-07-16 22:58:25 Marf has joined
1022 2012-07-16 23:00:23 sytse has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1023 2012-07-16 23:00:42 coiax has joined
1024 2012-07-16 23:01:30 freewil has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1025 2012-07-16 23:04:14 Joric_ has joined
1026 2012-07-16 23:04:15 Joric_ has quit (Changing host)
1027 2012-07-16 23:04:15 Joric_ has joined
1028 2012-07-16 23:05:03 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1029 2012-07-16 23:05:05 Joric_ is now known as Joric
1030 2012-07-16 23:05:30 Internet_ has joined
1031 2012-07-16 23:07:35 sytse has joined
1032 2012-07-16 23:08:58 Commander710 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1033 2012-07-16 23:09:56 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1034 2012-07-16 23:10:59 Joric has joined
1035 2012-07-16 23:10:59 Joric has quit (Changing host)
1036 2012-07-16 23:10:59 Joric has joined
1037 2012-07-16 23:40:46 Forexmasterja has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1038 2012-07-16 23:42:23 mmoya has joined
1039 2012-07-16 23:54:54 agricocb has joined
1040 2012-07-16 23:55:58 <copumpkin> when computing a block hash
1041 2012-07-16 23:56:01 <copumpkin> what goes into that?
1042 2012-07-16 23:56:14 Mobius_ is now known as MobiusL
1043 2012-07-16 23:56:14 <copumpkin> do the bits need to be reversed?
1044 2012-07-16 23:57:20 <BlueMatt> what language do you prefer? there are examples in just about all of them by now...
1045 2012-07-16 23:57:30 <copumpkin> hmm, don't really care
1046 2012-07-16 23:57:39 <copumpkin> but I guess the wiki doesn't really specify?
1047 2012-07-16 23:58:00 <copumpkin> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#Hashes
1048 2012-07-16 23:59:33 <copumpkin> I'll just read roconnor's one