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23 2012-07-19 00:36:27 <Joric> added difficulty parser https://github.com/joric/pyblockchain/blob/master/difficulty.py
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26 2012-07-19 00:51:17 <jgarzik> Joric: does pyblockchain parse and validate scripts properly?
27 2012-07-19 00:53:31 <Joric> not really its very quick and dirty i'm not even sure about quick
28 2012-07-19 00:54:21 <Joric> doesn't even build a merkle tree just reads sequentally
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34 2012-07-19 01:10:38 <jgarzik> Joric: this python client builds a merkle tree and does in-situ (no database) validation: http://pastebin.com/ZSM7iHZw
35 2012-07-19 01:10:43 <jgarzik> ArtForz' python half-a-node client
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93 2012-07-19 04:58:28 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: fanquake opened pull request 47 on bitcoin/bitcoin.org <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/pull/47>
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102 2012-07-19 05:33:48 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1611 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1611>
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133 2012-07-19 07:31:38 <OneEyed> Wow, what happened to blockchain.info? It lost a lot of blocks apparently
134 2012-07-19 07:34:02 imer_ has joined
135 2012-07-19 07:34:05 <imer_> is something wrong with bitcoin?
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148 2012-07-19 08:15:24 <OneEyed> imer_: probably :) But do you have anything specific in midn?
149 2012-07-19 08:15:27 <OneEyed> Grmpf mind
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153 2012-07-19 08:18:47 <Graet> blockchain.info is a site that displays info, often they have stuff break or be innacurate - nothing unusual OneEyed ;)
154 2012-07-19 08:20:50 tonikt has joined
155 2012-07-19 08:24:31 <t7> why is bitcoin price so high?
156 2012-07-19 08:24:52 <t7> someone selling?
157 2012-07-19 08:25:00 igetgames__ has joined
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159 2012-07-19 08:25:43 <c_k> t7: reverse
160 2012-07-19 08:25:46 <[Tycho]> May be buying ?
161 2012-07-19 08:25:58 <c_k> ^ bingo
162 2012-07-19 08:26:32 <[Tycho]> I wonder why they are doing this.
163 2012-07-19 08:26:46 <t7> its the banks
164 2012-07-19 08:26:51 tonikt has joined
165 2012-07-19 08:27:10 <t7> oh god im far too tired this moring
166 2012-07-19 08:27:29 <t7> how do i into basic supply / demand
167 2012-07-19 08:28:00 tonikt has quit (Client Quit)
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169 2012-07-19 08:28:40 <c_k> they're only worth what someone is willing to pay for them
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174 2012-07-19 08:30:13 <t7> in a perfect world you wouldn't need money
175 2012-07-19 08:31:58 <c_k> in a perfect world I could turn my pseudo code in to real code
176 2012-07-19 08:32:08 <c_k> but I'm stuck not being able to code
177 2012-07-19 08:32:18 <t7> haskell is like pseudo code
178 2012-07-19 08:32:44 <t7> map myfunction {- onto -} mylistthing
179 2012-07-19 08:32:44 <c_k> I have been wondering if I bother to learn php lately or whether I start with something else, like Google's Go or what ever they call it
180 2012-07-19 08:33:08 <t7> learn haskell
181 2012-07-19 08:33:17 <t7> anything else would lower your IQ
182 2012-07-19 08:33:24 <yellowhat> how can i send a message to anyone resposible for the wikileaks homepage? it looks like ther bitcoin irc bot for obtaining new deposit addresses is down
183 2012-07-19 08:33:25 <t7> or good old C
184 2012-07-19 08:36:56 JustThinking has joined
185 2012-07-19 08:37:35 <c_k> thanks :)
186 2012-07-19 08:38:39 <[Tycho]> С is the best language ever.
187 2012-07-19 08:39:14 <JustThinking> Hello. I'm a long time BTC lurker (even though I just have a single BTC :) ) and I'd like to ask about the status of a "smart card wallet" as descirbed here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Smart_card_wallet
188 2012-07-19 08:39:19 moartr4dez has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
189 2012-07-19 08:39:24 <JustThinking> Last time I checked, the topic had stalled.
190 2012-07-19 08:39:43 <t7> JustThinking: sell sell sell"
191 2012-07-19 08:39:45 <t7> !
192 2012-07-19 08:40:20 <JustThinking> But I see some progress on the wiki page (like a lightweight wallet implementation)
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195 2012-07-19 08:41:05 <t7> i would sell mine if i didnt lose them on seals with clubs
196 2012-07-19 08:41:46 <JustThinking> As I'm generally lazy, I was hoping that somebody could help me understand the interface that makes up a wallet, so that a on-card wallet could be implemented.
197 2012-07-19 08:42:52 <JustThinking> looking at the protocol specification, the main property of the wallet is the ecdsa private key on secp256k1 and the ability to verify and sign with that, right ?
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199 2012-07-19 08:43:21 <JustThinking> and looking at wallet.dat, it is a 64k bdb file, which means that the raw data contained there could easily fit into a smart card ?
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202 2012-07-19 08:45:59 <jeremias> hmm, anyone here noticed anything weird with blockchain.info?
203 2012-07-19 08:46:16 <jeremias> it turned all my previously confirmed transactions now to unconfirmed status
204 2012-07-19 08:46:55 <justmoon> jeremias: looks like it's stuck on an old block
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207 2012-07-19 08:50:03 <JustThinking> It would be nice if I found somebody who explained the "wallet interface" a bit, as in terms of simple operations requires.
208 2012-07-19 08:50:22 <JustThinking> From what I see, the interface is not that complicated and it makes me wonder why it has not been implemented this far.
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212 2012-07-19 08:51:30 <JustThinking> Looking at the protocol specification, it seems like I have a basic smart card which supports all required primitives right here. There's a "lightweight wallet" implementation, that should fit into the picture. But I'm lazy and instead of reading code I'd like to talk to somebody who could walk me through the wallet interface and used primitives in person.
213 2012-07-19 08:51:38 <Ferroh> JustThinking, I should point out too, that it's like 5am for most people in this channel :)
214 2012-07-19 08:52:01 <jeremias> well, blockchain.info claims that all the blocks are oprhaned
215 2012-07-19 08:52:06 <jeremias> blockexplorer works ok
216 2012-07-19 08:53:27 <JustThinking> too bad, it sucks being european.. ;(
217 2012-07-19 08:53:56 <Ferroh> " the purpose is to guard the wallet, which means sending whatever transactions. All wallet-related operations happen inside the smart card."
218 2012-07-19 08:54:02 <Ferroh> ^^ that would be really cool JustThinking
219 2012-07-19 08:54:10 <Ferroh> it would be easy to get a lot of attention if you built it
220 2012-07-19 08:54:19 Marf has joined
221 2012-07-19 08:54:35 <Ferroh> or even if you pretended to build it and made a pretty page for it, heh
222 2012-07-19 08:54:54 <Ferroh> Hopefully you can get some more attention later in the day.
223 2012-07-19 08:55:26 <Ferroh> If you post something on bitcointalk, I'll link to it for you, and perhaps someone will unjail you
224 2012-07-19 08:56:30 <jrmithdobbs> JustThinking: all that's really required is key storage and signing on request using the right ecdsa curves
225 2012-07-19 08:56:31 <JustThinking> I'm not in the mood of writing a long and detailed description, but well.. maybe.
226 2012-07-19 08:56:43 <JustThinking> jrmithdobbs: but what makes up the wallet ?
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228 2012-07-19 08:56:55 <jrmithdobbs> JustThinking: what do you mean?
229 2012-07-19 08:57:02 <JustThinking> I understand that per each bitcoin address there must be a new ecdsa key, right ?
230 2012-07-19 08:57:14 <JustThinking> does the wallet currently contain those keys then ?
231 2012-07-19 08:57:15 <Ferroh> JustThinking: the walley is just a bunch of key pairs of public and private keys.
232 2012-07-19 08:57:22 <jrmithdobbs> JustThinking: the wallet is two parts, the keys, then just a (replayable/recreatable) log of transactions for said keys
233 2012-07-19 08:57:43 <JustThinking> jrmithdobbs: the transactions are not sensitive then, right ?
234 2012-07-19 08:57:49 <jrmithdobbs> JustThinking: nope
235 2012-07-19 08:58:01 <JustThinking> "encrypted wallet" then means just protecting the ecdsa keys with a password ?
236 2012-07-19 08:58:01 <jrmithdobbs> JustThinking: they're copied right out of the blockchain, essentially
237 2012-07-19 08:58:13 <jrmithdobbs> yes, it encrypts the keys
238 2012-07-19 08:58:33 <JustThinking> okay. I'd like to say "jesus" in a spanish way.
239 2012-07-19 08:58:40 <JustThinking> then why on earth has noone implemented this ?
240 2012-07-19 08:58:51 <jrmithdobbs> and to answer your question as to why noone has done that, a) not many cards support ecdsa and b) the few of us that have tried can't get vendors to return phone calls because we're individuals
241 2012-07-19 08:58:55 <Ferroh> JustThinking, because that alone is useless?
242 2012-07-19 08:58:57 <JustThinking> I'll make a test if the card at hand properly supports the mentioned curve.
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245 2012-07-19 08:59:14 <jrmithdobbs> JustThinking: it probably doesn't
246 2012-07-19 08:59:22 <JustThinking> jrmithdobbs: why not ?
247 2012-07-19 08:59:28 <JustThinking> FP curve ?
248 2012-07-19 08:59:30 <jrmithdobbs> sep192k iirc is the curve
249 2012-07-19 08:59:32 <Ferroh> JustThinking, you need some software/hardware that actually does something with the wallet stored on the smartcard.
250 2012-07-19 08:59:36 <JustThinking> secp256k1
251 2012-07-19 08:59:43 <jrmithdobbs> err ya 256
252 2012-07-19 08:59:51 <JustThinking> I have a card that does up to 521, at least advertised
253 2012-07-19 08:59:59 <jrmithdobbs> JustThinking: because patents etc etc lost of people don't implement it
254 2012-07-19 09:00:09 <JustThinking> well.. I like being european then ;)
255 2012-07-19 09:00:11 <jrmithdobbs> JustThinking: what card?
256 2012-07-19 09:00:21 <jrmithdobbs> JustThinking: nah, patents just expired ~1 year ago
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258 2012-07-19 09:02:26 <jrmithdobbs> JustThinking: so ya, you're right, it should be quite simple and straightforward if you can get the hw and the dev kit to program the fucking things ;p
259 2012-07-19 09:02:29 <JustThinking> Okay. Given that my fast test turns up positive, will somebody be interested in gatewaying a smart card to an existing client ?
260 2012-07-19 09:03:17 <JustThinking> I might be able to ship out some smart cards to somebody who demonstrates the ability to work with them.
261 2012-07-19 09:03:43 <JustThinking> I can help with interfacing the host software in either C or java.
262 2012-07-19 09:04:19 <jrmithdobbs> JustThinking: all you really have to provide is a hook for "give me pubkey" and "sign this message" if you could just expose a c lib with those two functions it'd almost be a drop in
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264 2012-07-19 09:04:57 <JustThinking> there's some GUI involved, like a PIN dialog
265 2012-07-19 09:05:10 <JustThinking> possibly some reader selection
266 2012-07-19 09:05:25 <jrmithdobbs> eventually, most stuff in bitcoin reference client gets implemented at bitcoind first then tied into gui
267 2012-07-19 09:05:35 <jrmithdobbs> so the hard parts get sorted out first
268 2012-07-19 09:06:44 <jrmithdobbs> JustThinking: eg, sign raw tx patches have existed for almost two years but just recently got exposed to the gui ;p
269 2012-07-19 09:07:36 <jrmithdobbs> JustThinking: I'd love to work with you on that but I can't commit the time right now. :(
270 2012-07-19 09:07:49 <JustThinking> Also jcop 2.4.1 should do FP up to 320 bits, thus 256 could fit in.
271 2012-07-19 09:08:11 <JustThinking> jcop should be much easier to obtain.
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275 2012-07-19 09:08:26 <JustThinking> but it is "difficutl to work with" sometimes.
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277 2012-07-19 09:10:25 <upb> so whats the latest with bitcoinica, any new revelations ?:P
278 2012-07-19 09:10:47 TD has joined
279 2012-07-19 09:11:10 <Ferroh> upb: Depends, are you up to date on the latest hack?
280 2012-07-19 09:11:25 <upb> yeah thats what im asking about, has anything new come out :D
281 2012-07-19 09:12:28 <jrmithdobbs> upb: i think genjix is mostly just trying to keep his sanity atm
282 2012-07-19 09:12:28 <upb> ah ok :)
283 2012-07-19 09:12:28 <jrmithdobbs> upb: they're still trying to figure out what they can do, i think
284 2012-07-19 09:12:43 davout has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
285 2012-07-19 09:13:02 <upb> ... or each consulting with their lawyer on how to shift blame to others
286 2012-07-19 09:23:41 <JustThinking> the signature is what..
287 2012-07-19 09:23:53 <JustThinking> it is not a common ECDSA SHA-something ?
288 2012-07-19 09:24:05 <JustThinking> "Signatures use DER encoding to pack the r and s components into a single byte stream (this is also what OpenSSL produces by default)."
289 2012-07-19 09:25:29 <jrmithdobbs> JustThinking: ya it's the default openssl ecdsa signing format
290 2012-07-19 09:26:09 <imer_> OneEyed: ah, bitcoin seems fine, it was blockchain.info that was down :)
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292 2012-07-19 09:29:36 <JustThinking> jrmithdobbs: okay, this is a limiting factor, as plain ECDSA is not defined by javacard, usually only ECSSA_SHAX
293 2012-07-19 09:30:04 <jrmithdobbs> JustThinking: ah
294 2012-07-19 09:30:49 <JustThinking> which means that the selection and availability of suitable smart cards shrinks at once.
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299 2012-07-19 09:37:31 <JustThinking> But I happen to have one that can do this as well...
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313 2012-07-19 09:51:56 <JustThinking> Hm. Other than getting an invalid encoding error from openssl for the x509-embedded secp256k1 public key, it seems to work.
314 2012-07-19 09:54:04 ThomasV has joined
315 2012-07-19 09:55:55 <TD> justmoon: have you tested converting an existing install to leveldb as well?
316 2012-07-19 09:57:05 <justmoon> TD: I can do that right now, one sec
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319 2012-07-19 09:58:25 <justmoon> TD: wallet loads fine, blockchain starts synchronizing from scratch
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323 2012-07-19 09:59:18 <TD> justmoon: it's supposed to pop up a window that says "Migrating database" or something like that
324 2012-07-19 09:59:30 <TD> and the conversion should be a lot faster than redownloading the block chain from scratch
325 2012-07-19 09:59:32 <TD> (few minutes)
326 2012-07-19 10:00:07 <justmoon> hmm
327 2012-07-19 10:00:09 Guest10648 is now known as coingenuity
328 2012-07-19 10:00:27 <justmoon> oh actually I might not have had a block chain in that copy of my bitcoin folder
329 2012-07-19 10:01:25 <justmoon> I have to download the chain with the normal client and then try the migration again, that'll take a while
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334 2012-07-19 10:09:42 <TD> justmoon: ok. you don't have to download the entire chain
335 2012-07-19 10:09:48 <TD> justmoon: just enough to give the code a good workout :-)
336 2012-07-19 10:09:52 <TD> justmoon: also what's perf like?
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339 2012-07-19 10:12:17 <TD> justmoon: but, uh, awesome work :-) really happy you picked that up and ran with it
340 2012-07-19 10:12:17 weather has joined
341 2012-07-19 10:12:32 <TD> justmoon: i guess the way we'd do this is i merge your work back into my branch, squash some commits together and then open a pull request?
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343 2012-07-19 10:13:26 <justmoon> TD: performance seems noticeably faster with leveldb - I can do some benchmarks later
344 2012-07-19 10:13:30 <TD> ok
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368 2012-07-19 10:52:47 <asuk> is there are any nntp group for bitcoin-dev?
369 2012-07-19 10:53:10 <upb> what the hell is the purpose of such ownership structure? http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/3481675/shareholdings
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386 2012-07-19 11:34:55 <OneEyed> asuk: nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.bitcoin.devel
387 2012-07-19 11:35:02 B0g4r7__ has joined
388 2012-07-19 11:35:07 <OneEyed> See http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.bitcoin.devel
389 2012-07-19 11:36:05 jouke has joined
390 2012-07-19 11:37:22 <jouke> I copied the two blk000 files to my laptop and started the client with -rescan. I now have three blk000 files?
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393 2012-07-19 11:37:49 <jouke> Copied it from 32bit system to 64bit
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397 2012-07-19 11:56:49 <Eliel_> hmm... looks like transactions without transaction fee, even when not mandatory might take a while to get included in a block these days. Is there a document on what can be done to speed it up after sending the tx?
398 2012-07-19 11:58:11 <asuk> OneEyed: thank you
399 2012-07-19 11:59:01 <leotreasure> hello
400 2012-07-19 11:59:35 <leotreasure> i'm trying to set up bitcoin payment flow with open cart
401 2012-07-19 12:00:01 <leotreasure> can anyone tell me what i should put in the "Your URL for Payment Notification" field?
402 2012-07-19 12:00:23 <[Tycho]> May be it's callback URL ?
403 2012-07-19 12:00:53 <JustThinking> what exactly is the split between addresses and a wallet.
404 2012-07-19 12:01:11 <JustThinking> is it true that a wallet contains the keys for all the addresses "owned" by a client ?
405 2012-07-19 12:01:21 <[Tycho]> Yes.
406 2012-07-19 12:01:25 <JustThinking> and that technically each address is actually a "miniwallet" ?
407 2012-07-19 12:01:35 <JustThinking> so wallet is a collection of wallets :)
408 2012-07-19 12:01:47 <[Tycho]> Collection of keys.
409 2012-07-19 12:02:12 <JustThinking> OK. I'm considering conceptual OO design here..
410 2012-07-19 12:03:40 <JustThinking> from bitcoin point of view, calculating the balance of an address only requires the address itself ?
411 2012-07-19 12:04:03 <JustThinking> or should a "unconfirmed reference value" be kept alongside the address, to speed up calculations?
412 2012-07-19 12:04:15 <JustThinking> (bitcoin client POV)
413 2012-07-19 12:05:23 <[Tycho]> Blockchain is required too.
414 2012-07-19 12:06:18 <JustThinking> I understood that this is actually public information ?
415 2012-07-19 12:06:27 <[Tycho]> Yes.
416 2012-07-19 12:06:39 <JustThinking> given a smart card which has limited capabilities, this does not fit into the protection profile...
417 2012-07-19 12:06:41 <[Tycho]> Almost everything is public.
418 2012-07-19 12:06:47 <[Tycho]> What ?
419 2012-07-19 12:07:07 <JustThinking> you should probably scroll up to see the previous chat I had..
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421 2012-07-19 12:07:36 <Joric> that bitcoinica sourcecode is it public domain or what is it legal to rerun it under another name
422 2012-07-19 12:08:15 <Joric> i guess not
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426 2012-07-19 12:10:15 <tcatm> Does anyone know of a blockchain-based stock trading system?
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431 2012-07-19 12:12:14 <Joric> those guys https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77211.0
432 2012-07-19 12:14:01 <leotreasure> [Tycho]: do you know if the callback url is just the path to callback.php?
433 2012-07-19 12:14:47 <[Tycho]> leotreasure: actually I don't know what service you are using. But I can guess that this service will call that URL after getting payment results.
434 2012-07-19 12:15:14 <leotreasure> i am using bitcoin payflow
435 2012-07-19 12:15:32 <leotreasure> i just realised i don't have a file called callback.php
436 2012-07-19 12:16:04 <leotreasure> i'm a bit stuck with this callback url field
437 2012-07-19 12:18:58 <JustThinking> Could somebody please point me to a reputable place to get instant bitcoins with paypal? A simple question with a simple answer....
438 2012-07-19 12:20:24 <jeremias> https://www.virwox.com/
439 2012-07-19 12:20:32 <jeremias> paypal -> linden dollars -> bitcoins
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454 2012-07-19 13:08:23 <upb> did you see this ? :P http://www.webcitation.org/69H2QWfrZ
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461 2012-07-19 13:19:44 <JustThinking> jeremias: why go through lindens ?
462 2012-07-19 13:20:10 <JustThinking> jeremias: I was thinking of a place where I paste my address, click "paypal" and then enter my e-mail on paypal.com with authentication...
463 2012-07-19 13:20:15 <jeremias> LOL
464 2012-07-19 13:20:21 <jeremias> you have lot to learn...
465 2012-07-19 13:20:28 <jeremias> just forget the paypal whing
466 2012-07-19 13:20:35 <jeremias> buy with bank transfer
467 2012-07-19 13:20:38 <helo> JustThinking: try #bitcoin-otc
468 2012-07-19 13:20:43 <upb> JustThinking: the problem with paypal is that the payment there can be reversed for a long time :)
469 2012-07-19 13:20:59 <upb> JustThinking: but the bitcoin payment cant. so anyone who's selling bitcoins for paypal is taking a huge risk
470 2012-07-19 13:21:08 <JustThinking> anyway, I made some initial tests to be sure about the feasibility on hardware side and made a small webpage.
471 2012-07-19 13:21:23 <JustThinking> http://smartcardwallet.org/
472 2012-07-19 13:24:51 drizztbsd has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
473 2012-07-19 13:25:55 <upb> nice, i was wondering why noone actually developed that idea
474 2012-07-19 13:30:16 <Icoin> folks i started a notion in the bitcointalk forum that bitcointalk should go redmine https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50617.140 would be great to know your oppinion to that
475 2012-07-19 13:34:57 drizztbsd has joined
476 2012-07-19 13:38:13 <JustThinking> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=94119.0
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493 2012-07-19 13:54:14 <upb> the documents dumped by genjix reveal the mystery owner of bitcoinica: 'Wengon Group Incorporated, a Barbados Corporation '
494 2012-07-19 13:55:39 <upb> http://www.caipo.gov.bb/project4/caipodecview.php?name=WENDON+GROUP+INCORPORATED
495 2012-07-19 13:59:17 <Joric> well, now they got nothing but debts )
496 2012-07-19 13:59:39 JustThinking has quit (Quit: leaving)
497 2012-07-19 13:59:53 <upb> also, its misspelled in the agreement, lol
498 2012-07-19 14:00:16 <jgarzik> take to #bitcoin or #offtopic, please
499 2012-07-19 14:01:31 <upb> sorry...
500 2012-07-19 14:01:52 <jgarzik> np. appreciated.
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531 2012-07-19 15:15:16 <arij> hello
532 2012-07-19 15:15:40 <arij> any one want to help me with a php file
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539 2012-07-19 15:18:58 <osxorgate> don't ask to ask
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631 2012-07-19 17:04:57 <luke-jr> do we have a good/safe prune branch right now?
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638 2012-07-19 17:15:15 <jgarzik> the simple prune method is nice too. I think that's what BlueMatt wrote: just remove spent txid's from the tx index database. The tx index eventually reaches a stable size.
639 2012-07-19 17:16:26 galambo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
640 2012-07-19 17:16:54 <luke-jr> jgarzik: yeah, that's what I mean
641 2012-07-19 17:17:01 <luke-jr> but afaik BlueMatt dropped his branch
642 2012-07-19 17:18:11 da2ce7-desktop has joined
643 2012-07-19 17:19:07 <BlueMatt> it would probably still apply, you're free to merge it if you want, but its not quite as useful as an actual pruning solution...
644 2012-07-19 17:20:13 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I'm thinking of minimizing my disk use by creating a simple blk0001.dat with orphans pruned, and a blkindex.dat with txns pruned ;)
645 2012-07-19 17:20:21 <luke-jr> (and hard linking the blk0001.dat)
646 2012-07-19 17:20:49 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
647 2012-07-19 17:20:55 <BlueMatt> my prune branch still exists, I dont see why it wouldnt still apply, so feel free to use it if you want....
648 2012-07-19 17:21:21 <luke-jr> k
649 2012-07-19 17:31:09 Erdon has joined
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651 2012-07-19 17:32:22 <jgarzik> luke-jr: if you have multiple machines on a LAN together, distributed memcache should work nicely for blk*.dat dataset
652 2012-07-19 17:32:35 <jgarzik> tempting to create a memcache patch
653 2012-07-19 17:33:00 <jgarzik> of course libmemcached becomes yet another dependency
654 2012-07-19 17:33:08 * luke-jr ponders how to overcome the JSON-RPC bottleneck for verifying blocks heights in the blockchain
655 2012-07-19 17:38:56 <BlueMatt> can we define nServices & 0x2 to mean "I do full verification, though look at nServices & 0x1 to see if I have all full blocks available" ?
656 2012-07-19 17:41:13 LuaKTT has joined
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658 2012-07-19 17:42:34 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: that seems fair, at a blush
659 2012-07-19 17:43:07 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: though I don't see why it is so important to drop blockchain data on the floor. the space requirements are still small
660 2012-07-19 17:43:19 LuaKT has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
661 2012-07-19 17:43:29 <jgarzik> enabling a serve-but-not-index mode for older blocks and TX's
662 2012-07-19 17:46:06 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: dont think it should be encouraged, but some nodes would do that (what if I, somewhat derangedly want to mine off my phone?)
663 2012-07-19 17:46:52 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
664 2012-07-19 17:48:07 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: yeah... I had thought about hacking ArtForz' half-a-node to permit mining
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674 2012-07-19 18:04:01 <Eliel_> jgarzik: doesn't it increase the efficiency somewhat to have the data saved in a less sparse way? That is, not mixing spent and unspent data.
675 2012-07-19 18:04:14 <Eliel_> more chance that way to have needed transactions already in cache
676 2012-07-19 18:04:48 JStoker has quit (Excess Flood)
677 2012-07-19 18:04:51 <BlueMatt> jgarzik could comment better, but I dont see why...
678 2012-07-19 18:04:55 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
679 2012-07-19 18:05:38 <jgarzik> most new transactions tend to spend from newer blocks
680 2012-07-19 18:05:55 <jgarzik> however, if you are serving blocks to others, a block chain download can be serving old or new data, it's all over the map
681 2012-07-19 18:06:35 <jgarzik> removing spent transactions from the TX index should speed lookups, and keep the working set size more stable
682 2012-07-19 18:06:42 <jgarzik> (and thus cacheable)
683 2012-07-19 18:08:41 <luke-jr> sigh, JSON-RPC batching is still slow
684 2012-07-19 18:09:45 davout has joined
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688 2012-07-19 18:13:56 <luke-jr> ok, anyone have a better way to get the block hashes for the main chain?
689 2012-07-19 18:14:04 <luke-jr> batching getblockhash is taking forever
690 2012-07-19 18:15:17 davout has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
691 2012-07-19 18:20:20 Marf has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
692 2012-07-19 18:21:25 <jgarzik> luke-jr: getblockhash is 100% RAM-based AFAICT, so that's strange
693 2012-07-19 18:21:33 <jgarzik> luke-jr: can you profile with 'perf'?
694 2012-07-19 18:21:52 <luke-jr> I don't know what 'perf' is
695 2012-07-19 18:21:57 [\\\] has joined
696 2012-07-19 18:23:04 <jgarzik> luke-jr: google "linux perf"
697 2012-07-19 18:23:14 <luke-jr> perf.wiki.kernel.org?
698 2012-07-19 18:23:59 JStoker has joined
699 2012-07-19 18:24:10 <jgarzik> luke-jr: the source code is shipped with the linux kernel. who knows where your distro puts it.
700 2012-07-19 18:24:23 <jgarzik> luke-jr: kernel-tools in Fedora
701 2012-07-19 18:24:42 <jgarzik> luke-jr: perf.wiki documents 'perf', yes
702 2012-07-19 18:24:48 <luke-jr> dev-util/perf refers to perf.wiki.kernel.org, so that's probably it
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722 2012-07-19 19:15:57 <luke-jr> 90.06% bitcoin-qt bitcoin-qt [.] getblockhash(std::vector<json_spirit::Value_impl<json_spiri
723 2012-07-19 19:15:58 <luke-jr> jgarzik: ^
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733 2012-07-19 19:22:00 <luke-jr> oh
734 2012-07-19 19:22:09 <luke-jr> that's probably why: getblockhash is insane inefficient
735 2012-07-19 19:24:35 Joric has joined
736 2012-07-19 19:25:03 <jgarzik> luke-jr: linear reverse search, which will hurt if you ask for height==1 or another low number
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744 2012-07-19 19:43:44 <luke-jr> jgarzik: would it be OK to optimize it slightly? I'm thinking start from the beginning if the desired height is < best/2, and cache the last result as a potential starting point (so linear lookups are fast)
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764 2012-07-19 20:15:04 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: luke-jr opened pull request 1612 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1612>
765 2012-07-19 20:15:55 MiningBuddy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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767 2012-07-19 20:17:04 <luke-jr> ^ there, much faster (though not as fast as it could be, I'm sure)
768 2012-07-19 20:17:18 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
769 2012-07-19 20:17:49 <luke-jr> I can still scan over the entire blk0001.dat file and index it in much less time than it takes to just get the block hashes for every block :/
770 2012-07-19 20:21:05 davout has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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777 2012-07-19 20:33:33 <luke-jr> wow, I have 7000 orphans stored
778 2012-07-19 20:33:50 <coiax> Oh, you're talking about blocks
779 2012-07-19 20:34:00 <coiax> I briefly got confused.
780 2012-07-19 20:34:18 <luke-jr> yes
781 2012-07-19 20:36:04 <upb> LOL
782 2012-07-19 20:37:11 <nimdAHK> HA
783 2012-07-19 20:37:15 <nimdAHK> oh boy
784 2012-07-19 20:37:20 <copumpkin> luke-jr's productivity is finally explained by slave labor
785 2012-07-19 20:37:38 <coiax> They're ORPHANS, not slaves
786 2012-07-19 20:37:42 <coiax> Slaves could have parents.
787 2012-07-19 20:37:43 nejucomo has joined
788 2012-07-19 20:37:46 <copumpkin> yeah, but he's storing them
789 2012-07-19 20:37:50 <nimdAHK> "what's the difference between 7000 orphans and a chevy? There's no chevy in my garage"
790 2012-07-19 20:38:14 <luke-jr> â¦
791 2012-07-19 20:38:46 <luke-jr> you know you're a Bitcoin nerd when you take coiax's comment to mean he confused the orphan blocks with orphan transactionsâ¦
792 2012-07-19 20:39:02 <nimdAHK> now why would you go to all the trouble of entering a unicode ellipses instead of 3 periods?
793 2012-07-19 20:39:04 agricocb has joined
794 2012-07-19 20:39:04 <nimdAHK> ...
795 2012-07-19 20:39:12 <luke-jr> what trouble?
796 2012-07-19 20:39:25 <coiax> What's an orphan transaction?
797 2012-07-19 20:39:27 <luke-jr> your keyboard doesn't have an elipsis key?
798 2012-07-19 20:39:27 <nejucomo> I just did "git checkout v0.6.2.2 ; cd src ; make -f makefile.unix USE_UPNP=" and that appeared to successfully build...
799 2012-07-19 20:39:36 <luke-jr> coiax: a transaction that consumes an input you don't know about
800 2012-07-19 20:39:42 <nejucomo> But if I run "./bitcoind --help" is prints many help options and then segfaults.
801 2012-07-19 20:39:56 <luke-jr> nejucomo: known bug, fixed in 0.6.3 I think
802 2012-07-19 20:40:00 <nejucomo> How should I diagnose this problem?
803 2012-07-19 20:40:03 <nejucomo> Thanks.
804 2012-07-19 20:40:16 <luke-jr> so the question is, why are you using an old version?
805 2012-07-19 20:42:11 <nejucomo> The answer, I'm afraid, is pretty bad. :-/
806 2012-07-19 20:42:18 <nejucomo> I was offline and hadn't run git pull in a while.
807 2012-07-19 20:42:46 <nejucomo> If I want the latest stable version, should I checkout v0.6.3 or v0.6.3rc1 ?
808 2012-07-19 20:42:56 <luke-jr> v0.6.3
809 2012-07-19 20:43:00 <luke-jr> but they're the same thing really
810 2012-07-19 20:43:01 <nejucomo> Thanks.
811 2012-07-19 20:44:03 <nejucomo> I'd like to start bitcoind with an alternate directory in a mode that does no networking *except* for jsonrpc. Are there config opts to disable all other networking?
812 2012-07-19 20:45:32 <luke-jr> -nolisten=1 -connect=0.0.0.0
813 2012-07-19 20:45:47 <nejucomo> Thanks.
814 2012-07-19 20:46:29 <nejucomo> Ok, next issue. I create an empty directory, and then write a bitcoin.conf file. Passing that directory as -datadir causes bitcoind to print "Error: Specified directory does not exist".
815 2012-07-19 20:49:54 <jgarzik> luke-jr: makes sense
816 2012-07-19 20:50:09 <jgarzik> luke-jr: (re "optimize it slightly")
817 2012-07-19 20:50:23 sytse has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
818 2012-07-19 20:50:24 <nejucomo> Should -datadir point to the equivalent of ~/.bitcoin/database ? If so I recommend improving the --help output.
819 2012-07-19 20:51:26 Maged has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
820 2012-07-19 20:51:30 * nejucomo discovers https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Data_directory
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826 2012-07-19 20:56:19 <jgarzik> luke-jr: perf was easy to use, yes?
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831 2012-07-19 20:59:33 <nejucomo> Is this the correct procedure for making a new datadir: mkdir /path/to/dir ; vim /path/to/dir/bitcoin.conf ; bitcoind -datadir /path/to/dir ?
832 2012-07-19 20:59:45 sytse has joined
833 2012-07-19 21:00:06 <jgarzik> nejucomo: basically yes
834 2012-07-19 21:00:09 sirk390 has joined
835 2012-07-19 21:00:49 <nejucomo> Why does bitcoind say "Error: Specified directory does not exist" then exit with a 0 exit status?
836 2012-07-19 21:00:50 MC-Eeepc has joined
837 2012-07-19 21:01:03 <nejucomo> Is this a bug or a user error?
838 2012-07-19 21:02:29 MC1984 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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841 2012-07-19 21:09:08 <nejucomo> Oh. The solution for me is: ./bitcoind -datadir=path ; I did not have the '='
842 2012-07-19 21:09:11 <nejucomo> User error.
843 2012-07-19 21:10:17 <nejucomo> PEBKAC
844 2012-07-19 21:12:58 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
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848 2012-07-19 21:19:47 edcba has joined
849 2012-07-19 21:19:49 <edcba> hi ppl !
850 2012-07-19 21:20:09 <edcba> where can i see some difficulty graph ?
851 2012-07-19 21:20:29 <edcba> woot 269 idlers
852 2012-07-19 21:20:54 <edcba> that chan did grow a bit since last time
853 2012-07-19 21:23:03 <bonks> edcba: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/index.html
854 2012-07-19 21:23:41 <edcba> thank you
855 2012-07-19 21:23:49 Internet13 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
856 2012-07-19 21:24:31 <edcba> hmm difficulty went down ?
857 2012-07-19 21:26:04 <edcba> now can i have a difficulty/price comparison ? :)
858 2012-07-19 21:26:53 Forexmasterja has joined
859 2012-07-19 21:27:54 Internet13 has joined
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861 2012-07-19 21:29:10 Marf has joined
862 2012-07-19 21:29:18 <bonks> ;;bc,stats
863 2012-07-19 21:29:19 <edcba> http://bitcoinx.com/charts/chart_large_log.png
864 2012-07-19 21:29:20 <gribble> Current Blocks: 189843 | Current Difficulty: 1866391.3050032 | Next Difficulty At Block: 191519 | Next Difficulty In: 1676 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 4 hours, 37 minutes, and 32 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1946415.09299287 | Estimated Percent Change: 4.28762113149
865 2012-07-19 21:29:25 <bonks> edcba: difficulty has been going up
866 2012-07-19 21:29:34 <bonks> and what do you mean a diff/price comparison?
867 2012-07-19 21:29:42 <edcba> the link i pasted
868 2012-07-19 21:29:47 <edcba> ;;mtgox
869 2012-07-19 21:29:47 <gribble> Error: "mtgox" is not a valid command.
870 2012-07-19 21:29:58 <edcba> hmm
871 2012-07-19 21:30:01 <edcba> .mtgox
872 2012-07-19 21:30:21 <nimdAHK> ;;ticker
873 2012-07-19 21:30:32 <edcba> yes that one
874 2012-07-19 21:30:34 SphericalCow has quit (Quit: Leaving)
875 2012-07-19 21:30:57 Guest42555 has joined
876 2012-07-19 21:30:58 Ukto has quit (Disconnected by services)
877 2012-07-19 21:31:00 <edcba> bonks: something like mining rentability
878 2012-07-19 21:31:01 Guest42555 is now known as Ukto
879 2012-07-19 21:31:03 <nimdAHK> spacebarisbroken
880 2012-07-19 21:31:07 <nimdAHK> goddammit
881 2012-07-19 21:31:09 <edcba> :)
882 2012-07-19 21:31:12 Silverion has joined
883 2012-07-19 21:31:12 <edcba> ;;ticker
884 2012-07-19 21:31:13 <gribble> Best bid: 9.15995, Best ask: 9.15996, Bid-ask spread: 0.00001, Last trade: 9.15996, 24 hour volume: 41538, 24 hour low: 9.04001, 24 hour high: 9.23355
885 2012-07-19 21:31:23 <nimdAHK> I'm_entirely_serious
886 2012-07-19 21:31:34 <edcba> who is manipulating bitcoin price again ?
887 2012-07-19 21:31:34 <nimdAHK> I_can't_get_it_to_work
888 2012-07-19 21:31:42 davout has joined
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890 2012-07-19 21:31:42 davout has joined
891 2012-07-19 21:31:53 <bonks> nimdAHK: maybe it's stuck, whack it
892 2012-07-19 21:32:31 <edcba> usually food stuck mine
893 2012-07-19 21:33:09 <bonks> nimdAHK: alt+32 for space :P
894 2012-07-19 21:33:24 <bonks> use number pad though
895 2012-07-19 21:33:49 <nimdAHK> oh-god
896 2012-07-19 21:33:57 <nimdAHK> my-left-thumb-needs-to-hit-it
897 2012-07-19 21:34:02 <nimdAHK> space-is-used-too-often
898 2012-07-19 21:34:12 RV___ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
899 2012-07-19 21:34:45 <edcba> ctrl+c some space
900 2012-07-19 21:34:55 <edcba> now you can space with ctrl+v !
901 2012-07-19 21:36:07 <bonks> doesn't everyone keep a spare keyboard around
902 2012-07-19 21:36:32 davout has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
903 2012-07-19 21:37:20 <edcba> virtual windows keyboard
904 2012-07-19 21:37:27 <edcba> phone powered hid
905 2012-07-19 21:37:37 <edcba> there's plenty solutions
906 2012-07-19 21:39:17 <bonks> like get a new one
907 2012-07-19 21:40:15 jurov is now known as away!ldxjiixv@84.245.71.31|jurov
908 2012-07-19 21:42:06 <edcba> bitcoin forum looking for new forum in php/c++ and secure ? :)
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912 2012-07-19 21:44:56 <Ferroh> in c++??
913 2012-07-19 21:45:00 <Ferroh> uh probably not, I would guess
914 2012-07-19 21:45:16 <Ferroh> why would you torture yourself by writing web software in c++
915 2012-07-19 21:45:28 <Ferroh> actually I take it back,
916 2012-07-19 21:45:34 <edcba> i don't really know if php is better anyway :)
917 2012-07-19 21:45:45 <upb> it's already in php
918 2012-07-19 21:45:55 <Ferroh> I don't know why you would torture yourself by writing web software in PHP either :)
919 2012-07-19 21:46:01 <lianj> hiphop is the worst of both worlds
920 2012-07-19 21:46:52 <Ferroh> I semi-take those statements back though, there is some benefit to using PHP and especially C++ in web dev, but you'd have a hard time convincing me that those are ideal languages for the bitcointalk forum
921 2012-07-19 21:47:07 <Ferroh> and anyway, I would recommend just using vanilla forum to the bitcointalk.org guys
922 2012-07-19 21:47:21 <Ferroh> (or to their developer, which I guess they dont really have one of)
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931 2012-07-19 21:58:01 <midnightmagic> .. C++.. ? for a web forum?
932 2012-07-19 21:58:08 <midnightmagic> goods drugs
933 2012-07-19 21:58:39 <edcba> that's when you have too much bitcoin to spend
934 2012-07-19 21:58:40 <nimdAHK> bonks: guess I'm buying a new one
935 2012-07-19 21:58:52 <nimdAHK> there's no manual for this keyboard either
936 2012-07-19 21:58:56 asdlfkjalsdjfla has joined
937 2012-07-19 22:02:13 <helo> the blockchain status tooltip seems to be outdated... has been saying the last block was received 1 minute ago for apparently ~30 minutes
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939 2012-07-19 22:03:47 <Ferroh> helo, yeah it was having problems last night as well
940 2012-07-19 22:03:54 <Ferroh> didn't update for a few hours
941 2012-07-19 22:04:06 <Ferroh> um
942 2012-07-19 22:04:10 <Ferroh> wait I misread what you said
943 2012-07-19 22:04:12 <Ferroh> and nevermind.
944 2012-07-19 22:04:19 <Ferroh> I thought you were talking about blockchain.info
945 2012-07-19 22:04:22 <Ferroh> ok I should get some sleep
946 2012-07-19 22:04:25 <helo> ;)
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980 2012-07-19 23:06:51 <BlueMatt> hmm...well implementing bloom filter on tx inv messages was easy enough, but converting block messages to header+vector<tx hash> would require a much more abstracted block store...
981 2012-07-19 23:07:10 <BlueMatt> mostly with support for callbacks to give a dos value to nodes...
982 2012-07-19 23:08:56 <BlueMatt> so...guess thats not gonna happen
983 2012-07-19 23:09:00 <BlueMatt> anywho
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