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  5 2012-07-27 00:24:47 * jgarzik sees this more frequently than one would expect:
  6 2012-07-27 00:24:49 <jgarzik> getblocks -1 to 00000000000000000000 limit 500
  7 2012-07-27 00:24:53 OpenOcean has joined
  8 2012-07-27 00:24:57 <jgarzik> on an outgoing-only, no-listen box
  9 2012-07-27 00:25:04 <jgarzik> I wonder if that is somebody probing
 10 2012-07-27 00:25:09 OpenOcean is now known as Mad7Scientist
 11 2012-07-27 00:25:45 <jgarzik> run a public node,  attract connections like flies, then probe their block database?
 12 2012-07-27 00:28:09 <jgarzik> sipa: bitcoin connecting to the same addresses, over and over and over again: http://gtf.org/garzik/bitcoin/debug.log.bz2
 13 2012-07-27 00:28:20 <jgarzik> testnet3, not mainnet
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 15 2012-07-27 00:32:51 <sipa> i'm on my phone here; i'll check it when i get back (juli 30)
 16 2012-07-27 00:33:54 <jgarzik> sipa: apologies... I thought you were back.  Enjoy the cold beer!
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 18 2012-07-27 00:36:20 <sipa> no prob!
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 88 2012-07-27 04:22:07 <weex> luke-jr: thanks for the clarification on the exponential notation and rounding. In python you can use getcontext().prec to set decimal precision but it doesn't count zeroes quite the way i'd like for btc. For example 0.0012345678 stays as it is rather than turning into 0.00123457
 89 2012-07-27 04:22:36 <luke-jr> weex: best practices are to work in raw Bitcoin units (Satoshis) as an integer
 90 2012-07-27 04:23:16 <weex> now that's an idea.
 91 2012-07-27 04:28:39 <lianj> \o/
 92 2012-07-27 04:29:01 <MagicalTux> that's how we work here :)
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 97 2012-07-27 04:40:32 <weex> might even be a good idea to put that in some sort of Bitcoin developer's guide
 98 2012-07-27 04:40:49 <weex> developers developers developers and all that
 99 2012-07-27 04:41:04 <luke-jr> weex: it should be
100 2012-07-27 04:43:02 <weex> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/PHP_developer_intro#Precision is a start
101 2012-07-27 04:43:39 <copumpkin> "In Bitcoin, money is sent to addresses. Your balance is the total of all the money in all the address in your wallet."
102 2012-07-27 04:45:34 <weex> fixed
103 2012-07-27 04:45:43 <gmaxwell> Thats a pretty nice level of mistakes per word.
104 2012-07-27 04:45:54 <luke-jr> lol
105 2012-07-27 04:46:02 <gmaxwell> well, pedantry fails per word at least.
106 2012-07-27 04:46:23 <weex> i never use accounts
107 2012-07-27 04:48:02 <gmaxwell> ObPedantry: Bitcoin isn't 'money' by some commonly used definitions. It's bitcoin.  In the system it's not sent to addresses, it's released to be claimed by potentially other people subject to small programs specified by the prior owners. The balance displayed in the reference software is the sum of all inputs your wallet knows it can redeem which are confirmed and at least 6 deep in the chain.
108 2012-07-27 04:48:12 <gmaxwell> :)
109 2012-07-27 04:48:16 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: nonsense, Bitcoin is money
110 2012-07-27 04:48:29 <gmaxwell> Better to avoid the definition.
111 2012-07-27 04:48:35 <gmaxwell> Because it's a boring argument.
112 2012-07-27 04:48:41 <weex> especially on this page
113 2012-07-27 04:48:58 <weex> it's not Haskell development intro after all
114 2012-07-27 04:49:28 <gmaxwell> Words mean what we choose them to mean. There are some fairly large circles of people (including some legislative bodies) who _define_ "money" as being issued by a government.
115 2012-07-27 04:49:50 <gmaxwell> Disputes over words teach us nothing, it's the lowest form of debate. It's always better to try to skirt them.
116 2012-07-27 04:50:38 <Diablo-D3> http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/make-your-mark-on-google-with-handwrite.html
117 2012-07-27 04:50:40 <Diablo-D3> huh.
118 2012-07-27 04:50:51 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
119 2012-07-27 04:51:01 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: lower than disputes over grammar?
120 2012-07-27 04:51:12 <luke-jr> or disputes over the level of disputes?
121 2012-07-27 04:51:18 <gmaxwell> hahaha
122 2012-07-27 04:51:19 <lianj> Diablo-D3: yikes
123 2012-07-27 04:51:30 <luke-jr> ☺
124 2012-07-27 04:51:33 <Diablo-D3> yeah, Im... mildly impressed, really.
125 2012-07-27 04:51:37 <gmaxwell> ultimately disputes over those things reduce to disputes over definitions. ;)
126 2012-07-27 04:51:38 <Diablo-D3> well, if it works
127 2012-07-27 04:51:43 <Diablo-D3> handwriting shit never works
128 2012-07-27 04:51:49 <weex> classic programmer conversation --^
129 2012-07-27 04:53:11 <lianj> Diablo-D3: i guess most kids can do better with virtual keyboard typing than handwriting
130 2012-07-27 04:54:03 <Diablo-D3> I cant
131 2012-07-27 04:54:13 <Diablo-D3> they didnt have that when I was a kid
132 2012-07-27 04:54:17 <lianj> then use the voice input (if that works) :P
133 2012-07-27 04:54:19 <Diablo-D3> all I can do is type on a real keyboard
134 2012-07-27 04:54:24 <Diablo-D3> voice input doesnt work
135 2012-07-27 04:56:05 <amiller> i read about an interesting variation of proof-of-work puzzles, this one is by Dwork and Naor, its main feature is that it has a large "fixed forever random array" thats meant to require a lot of memory http://www.wisdom.weizmann.ac.il/~naor/PAPERS/mem.pdf
136 2012-07-27 04:56:35 <amiller> it's unlike scrypt, which is also meant to be memory bound, because scrypt involves changing the memory while the dwork/naor one is permanently fixed
137 2012-07-27 04:56:42 <luke-jr> amiller: and what does that waste of memory buy for the POW?
138 2012-07-27 04:56:53 <gmaxwell> the memory would be the blockchain.
139 2012-07-27 04:56:57 <amiller> not in this case
140 2012-07-27 04:57:12 <luke-jr> amiller: but what makes it any better than SHA256?
141 2012-07-27 04:57:18 <amiller> er i mean gmaxwell, that's what i had been thinking of before, but i meant to describe this one as a different idea where it's just a random fixed set of data
142 2012-07-27 04:57:28 <amiller> hold on luke-jr i didn't say it's better i just said it was interesting
143 2012-07-27 04:58:06 <amiller> the reason i think it's interesting is that i can imagine the most efficient way to implement this as having the data burned into an asic, and then the device would not be useful for anything else except mining
144 2012-07-27 04:59:05 <amiller> and i'm beginning to think that may be a useful abstraction, to assume that the miner's weapon-of-choice isn't useful for anything else
145 2012-07-27 04:59:06 <gmaxwell> amiller: you do basically get that with any sufficiently complicated algorithim though.
146 2012-07-27 04:59:54 <gmaxwell> and yes, I do agree with your 'miner's weapon-of-choice isn't useful for anything else' point.
147 2012-07-27 05:00:14 <gmaxwell> Since it makes the risk from computing markets easier to reason about.
148 2012-07-27 05:00:19 <amiller> i guess what i'm really struggling with right now is that i'm trying to come up with a better initial condition than '49%'
149 2012-07-27 05:00:29 * luke-jr wonders if we can make a POW that basically requires a performance MIPS implementation, to finally get the world off x86 <.<
150 2012-07-27 05:00:31 <amiller> i can't think of anyway to proceed without making some idealizations about costs
151 2012-07-27 05:00:32 <amiller> yeah
152 2012-07-27 05:01:28 <amiller> maybe one way to think of it is that all the equipment costs are paid for initially and then in the steady state, perhaps the market price of purchasing a used mining rig is equal to the cost of building one, is equal to the expected return on the investment
153 2012-07-27 05:01:51 <amiller> this is outside the realm of what i know how to reason about formally :/
154 2012-07-27 05:05:22 <gmaxwell> I think the equality of borrowing vs buying is a useful one to have.
155 2012-07-27 05:05:50 <gmaxwell> Just earlier someone was worring in #bitcoin about people attacking bitcoin cheaply by throwing miners a few bitcents bonus.
156 2012-07-27 05:06:21 <gmaxwell> My argument was you couldn't buy them for a non-trivial attack for anything less than the cost of buying their rigs, unless they're all idiots, because helping you attack would make their mining hardware worthless.
157 2012-07-27 05:06:47 <amiller> interesting, i just ran through exactly that train of thought for the first time a few minutes ago
158 2012-07-27 05:07:27 <gmaxwell> it's not a new idea, though I think it's been about a year since I heard anyone suggest it.
159 2012-07-27 05:07:28 <amiller> you might be able to talk them into just giving you carte blanche access to it "just an hour, it's definitely not for a 6 block attack though"
160 2012-07-27 05:08:08 <gmaxwell> If the access is intermediated its not hard to prevent some kinds of abuses.
161 2012-07-27 05:08:45 <gmaxwell> e.g. you can prevent the prev hash from going backwards, so the same hardware can't reverse a chain segment it worked on.
162 2012-07-27 05:09:04 dvide has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
163 2012-07-27 05:09:14 <gmaxwell> In theory some of this security could even be baked in mining asics, I suppose, allowing people to precommit to a level of honesty at purchase time.
164 2012-07-27 05:09:51 <gmaxwell> (and thus also blocking race to the bottom compromises)
165 2012-07-27 05:11:02 <gmaxwell> e.g. using the decision over the content of the very high NRE masks as a consensus point when we might individually defect.
166 2012-07-27 05:11:41 <amiller> it's interesting that the ideal rig, even to a selfish miner, would be really cheap in power over time, whereas an ideal attacking rig would only need to run for an hour
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168 2012-07-27 05:11:59 <copumpkin> omg haskell
169 2012-07-27 05:13:00 <weex> copumpkin: you gonna write a haskell bitcoin developer page?
170 2012-07-27 05:13:16 <copumpkin> maybe when there's actually something to say :)
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172 2012-07-27 05:16:49 <amiller> we have roconnor's source code
173 2012-07-27 05:16:53 <amiller> that's a start
174 2012-07-27 05:17:36 D34TH has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
175 2012-07-27 05:20:51 <amiller> he made his own sha512 in there
176 2012-07-27 05:21:01 sgornick has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
177 2012-07-27 05:21:37 <copumpkin> yup
178 2012-07-27 05:21:41 <copumpkin> he made his own everything
179 2012-07-27 05:21:45 <copumpkin> well, sha256, right?
180 2012-07-27 05:21:49 <copumpkin> he has the EC stuff too
181 2012-07-27 05:21:51 <copumpkin> and ripemd160
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206 2012-07-27 06:26:22 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1635 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1635>
207 2012-07-27 06:27:22 jurov is now known as away!ldxjiixv@84.245.71.31|jurov
208 2012-07-27 06:29:50 <gambler> gmaxwell: you had made slanderous accusations of me being a lair then refused to provide proof
209 2012-07-27 06:30:07 <gambler> all based on your personal distaste of satoshidice and my site satoshiroulette
210 2012-07-27 06:30:23 <gambler> I regret you could not set aside your petty diferences so we could discuss this
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212 2012-07-27 06:30:41 <midnightmagic> oh, he beat you to it :)
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221 2012-07-27 06:51:45 <gribble> New news from bitcoinrss: Diapolo opened pull request 1636 on bitcoin/bitcoin <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1636>
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258 2012-07-27 08:32:36 <saga> hi every1
259 2012-07-27 08:33:03 <saga> ny1 here?
260 2012-07-27 08:33:09 <edcba> nope
261 2012-07-27 08:33:16 <saga> lol
262 2012-07-27 08:33:19 <saga> hi
263 2012-07-27 08:33:24 <edcba> hi
264 2012-07-27 08:33:28 <saga> can you help me?
265 2012-07-27 08:33:36 <saga> I have some queries
266 2012-07-27 08:33:43 <statham> ask ask ask
267 2012-07-27 08:33:47 <doublec> read the topic
268 2012-07-27 08:33:54 <doublec> "Ask, dont ask to ask."
269 2012-07-27 08:33:59 statham has left ()
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271 2012-07-27 08:34:01 <saga> cool...
272 2012-07-27 08:34:05 <saga> lol
273 2012-07-27 08:34:46 Tykling has quit (Excess Flood)
274 2012-07-27 08:34:53 <saga> okay..how much confirmation is mandatory for any transaction?
275 2012-07-27 08:35:28 <saga> how many confirmations does it take before it's accepted in the wallet?
276 2012-07-27 08:35:51 Tykling has joined
277 2012-07-27 08:35:57 <edcba> 5 iirc
278 2012-07-27 08:36:14 <statham> about 3 in advance is more than enough to make almost impossible a cheat
279 2012-07-27 08:36:36 <edcba> i would even trust 1 :)
280 2012-07-27 08:36:44 <statham> i do too
281 2012-07-27 08:36:48 <saga> okay..I studied few  text and found 6 would be good enough
282 2012-07-27 08:37:01 <saga> though now I set 1 ..
283 2012-07-27 08:37:15 <edcba> the reason of why 5/6 is explained in the paper
284 2012-07-27 08:37:50 <statham> the total hashpower is of about 14 000 Ghash now, i doubt someone have enough power to make a double spend
285 2012-07-27 08:37:56 <saga> okay..now my question is...if I will set it 6 or more than 1 then how much time will be taken for confirmation...
286 2012-07-27 08:38:00 <edcba> but i don't think other clients will accept a tx spending freshly minted coins
287 2012-07-27 08:38:08 <saga> and will there be any extra charges applied for that?
288 2012-07-27 08:38:27 <statham> about 40 min to take 8 confirmations
289 2012-07-27 08:38:35 <edcba> ?
290 2012-07-27 08:38:45 <saga> as for 1 its taking 10min
291 2012-07-27 08:39:04 <saga> so, I could expect 30 min!
292 2012-07-27 08:39:15 <saga> fr 6 confirmations?
293 2012-07-27 08:39:22 <statham> i checked a transaction abotu 40 min later and it had 8 confirmations
294 2012-07-27 08:39:29 <statham> maybe i am wrong
295 2012-07-27 08:40:01 <saga> okay, but its sure that the time will be lil longer, right?
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297 2012-07-27 08:40:40 molecular has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
298 2012-07-27 08:41:28 <statham> maybe
299 2012-07-27 08:41:41 <statham> but who cares? after 3 confirmations you are done,
300 2012-07-27 08:42:21 Tykling has joined
301 2012-07-27 08:42:27 <statham> you can even move without any confirmations
302 2012-07-27 08:42:34 <saga> thats nice...I must set 3 then..lol
303 2012-07-27 08:43:10 <statham> try electrum client, i am testing it since 2 days and i am delighted with it,
304 2012-07-27 08:43:23 <statham> the deterministic wallet creation is... :D
305 2012-07-27 08:43:37 <saga> and will there be any automated process to show that 3/2/1 confirmation has been left before total verification in web page?
306 2012-07-27 08:43:58 <statham> whitch web ?
307 2012-07-27 08:44:35 <saga> I have a web page to generate wallets, send receive BTCs
308 2012-07-27 08:44:46 <statham> i see
309 2012-07-27 08:44:57 <statham> that depends on the web
310 2012-07-27 08:45:06 <saga> I am asking if there is anything to show the remaining confirmation
311 2012-07-27 08:45:19 <statham> i dont know,
312 2012-07-27 08:45:22 <statham> what web you use?
313 2012-07-27 08:45:27 <saga> can it be fetched by json RPC or else?
314 2012-07-27 08:45:32 <saga> let me show you
315 2012-07-27 08:45:53 <saga> http://www.zenwallet.org/
316 2012-07-27 08:45:57 <saga> this is my site
317 2012-07-27 08:46:06 <saga> I made it...
318 2012-07-27 08:46:07 <saga> :)
319 2012-07-27 08:46:26 Tykling has quit (Excess Flood)
320 2012-07-27 08:46:48 <statham> looking good,
321 2012-07-27 08:46:52 ByteUnits has joined
322 2012-07-27 08:46:53 <statham> the qr code is blurry however
323 2012-07-27 08:46:54 <sturles> When ASICs take over all bitcoin mining, people will start using their GPUs to mine for Electrum wallets with human made secret phrases. :-)
324 2012-07-27 08:47:16 <saga> thanks ..u can click on those to see in bigger size :)
325 2012-07-27 08:47:29 <statham> oh now its better,
326 2012-07-27 08:47:38 <saga> lol...
327 2012-07-27 08:47:39 <statham> sturles humm its 2^128
328 2012-07-27 08:48:05 <statham> i doubt they get any electrum wallet
329 2012-07-27 08:48:18 <saga> I am working on web fr last 6 yrs..n I try to make things prominent..lol
330 2012-07-27 08:48:29 <sturles> statham: Yep, but a human made phrase don't have much entropy.
331 2012-07-27 08:48:32 <statham> 6 years? bitcoin born 4 years ago
332 2012-07-27 08:48:59 <statham> sturles they electrum should update they deterministic wallet
333 2012-07-27 08:49:03 <statham> then*
334 2012-07-27 08:49:11 <statham> for a more complicated one
335 2012-07-27 08:49:32 <saga> lol..no no..I have been working on web, not bitcoin
336 2012-07-27 08:50:01 <saga> though I know m a novis ...
337 2012-07-27 08:50:02 <saga> :)
338 2012-07-27 08:50:18 <sturles> Yep.  I'm sure there are a lot of wallets out there with bad secret phrases.  There are probably more than ten people sharing the deterministic wallet with the phrase "my penis is very big".
339 2012-07-27 08:50:51 <sturles> Or similar.
340 2012-07-27 08:51:19 <statham> so in your opinion the deterministic wallet is a bad idea
341 2012-07-27 08:51:29 <saga> might be...though I am just trying to do something better...and if you guys can help me
342 2012-07-27 08:52:13 <sturles> No, it is not a bad idea, but there are stupid people born every minute.  Stupid people make stupid choices, like bad phrases to generate their wallet.
343 2012-07-27 08:52:22 Tykling has joined
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347 2012-07-27 08:52:33 <statham> i think is a good idea but maybe should be made much more difficult, i like the idea of printing something, and with it and an algorithm, be able to revoer all your wallet
348 2012-07-27 08:52:52 <saga> see, all these might be controversial , so let concentrate on the improvement and technologies.., right guys?
349 2012-07-27 08:52:59 <statham> so maybe a much larger seed must be done for the deterministic wallet
350 2012-07-27 08:53:07 <statham> sturles
351 2012-07-27 08:53:13 <statham> but the deterministic wallet of electrum
352 2012-07-27 08:53:16 <statham> is random
353 2012-07-27 08:53:26 <statham> you can't choose your words
354 2012-07-27 08:54:01 <saga> plz, guyz..we all have our personal views...and if those are not wrong then respect..plzzz
355 2012-07-27 08:54:22 <saga> so, cheer up...
356 2012-07-27 08:54:28 <saga> wanna some beer ? ;)
357 2012-07-27 08:54:48 <statham> there is a fixed 12 words electrum generated and you must remeber or write, and with those words, then you can recover the wallet
358 2012-07-27 08:55:15 <statham> you can put "my penis is big" as a seed for a deterministic wallet
359 2012-07-27 08:55:28 <saga> 12 words???
360 2012-07-27 08:55:40 molecular has joined
361 2012-07-27 08:55:42 <statham> yes
362 2012-07-27 08:55:46 dooglus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
363 2012-07-27 08:56:17 <saga> okay...but isnt it too long?
364 2012-07-27 08:56:29 <saga> and I thing, m not aware of it!...
365 2012-07-27 08:56:31 <edcba> your penis ?
366 2012-07-27 08:56:41 <saga> can u focus lil more, plz?
367 2012-07-27 08:57:09 <statham> if you must remember it, its long, but its still much more easy than remember a code of 32 randome characters linked to those words
368 2012-07-27 08:57:21 <edcba> indeed
369 2012-07-27 08:58:03 <saga> okay..32chars ..u mean to say the wallet ID or the address?
370 2012-07-27 08:58:35 <statham> its the "seed" that will use an algorith to generate always your same wallet
371 2012-07-27 08:58:55 Tyklol has joined
372 2012-07-27 08:59:01 <sturles> statham: You used to be able to choose, but this was changed.  A smart move.
373 2012-07-27 08:59:36 <statham> is just a nice feature of electrum client, you dont need to make backup after each transaction, just write the master code of 32 char
374 2012-07-27 08:59:44 <statham> and with it, electrum will generate back your wallet
375 2012-07-27 09:00:03 <saga> really, m nt so sure about all these..it seems I have created something similer with so simple logic...!
376 2012-07-27 09:00:07 Tykling has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
377 2012-07-27 09:00:07 <saga> I believe so.. :p
378 2012-07-27 09:00:37 <statham> sturles i never knew in earlier versions they allowed you to choose
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382 2012-07-27 09:00:54 <edcba> and the first 2 yrs there wasn't much ppl :)
383 2012-07-27 09:01:09 <statham> i bet electrum is going to be a nice client, i like it right now
384 2012-07-27 09:01:14 <saga> okay, I have another question fr u guyz...
385 2012-07-27 09:01:15 <edcba> oh fcking buffer
386 2012-07-27 09:01:27 Tyklol has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
387 2012-07-27 09:01:30 <statham> saga okey, fire
388 2012-07-27 09:01:44 <saga> lol...
389 2012-07-27 09:01:46 <edcba> i'd prefer ice
390 2012-07-27 09:01:49 <saga> what is mixing service?
391 2012-07-27 09:01:52 yellowhat has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
392 2012-07-27 09:02:04 * edcba dunno
393 2012-07-27 09:02:06 <statham> i think its like a proxy
394 2012-07-27 09:02:09 <edcba> some laundry service ?
395 2012-07-27 09:02:12 <statham> but for bitcoin
396 2012-07-27 09:02:17 <saga> plz, tell me in simple words..as I couldnt found something easy to understand..
397 2012-07-27 09:02:18 <statham> they clena yoru bitcoins
398 2012-07-27 09:02:23 <statham> yes it is
399 2012-07-27 09:02:31 <saga> port 9050?
400 2012-07-27 09:02:32 <statham> just a middle man
401 2012-07-27 09:02:39 <statham> for your transactions as far as i know
402 2012-07-27 09:03:02 <saga> okay, so how to implement it?
403 2012-07-27 09:03:06 <statham> you send them the money, they start to move it all around and end up in the destination you choosed
404 2012-07-27 09:03:17 <statham> no idea :P i am not that expert
405 2012-07-27 09:03:23 <statham> there is a service
406 2012-07-27 09:03:26 <statham> in blockchain
407 2012-07-27 09:03:32 <statham> for free
408 2012-07-27 09:03:37 <statham> they do it
409 2012-07-27 09:03:44 <saga> okay, so its nothing but a 3rd party ?
410 2012-07-27 09:04:08 <statham> as far as i know yes
411 2012-07-27 09:04:31 <saga> okay...and so TOR is it..at least fr now?
412 2012-07-27 09:04:54 <statham> free?
413 2012-07-27 09:05:09 <statham> tor is a chained proxy serviced with encryption
414 2012-07-27 09:05:11 <saga> no..bot at all
415 2012-07-27 09:05:21 <statham> i dont get what you mean
416 2012-07-27 09:05:27 <saga> yes...n they provide this mixing
417 2012-07-27 09:06:22 Tykling has joined
418 2012-07-27 09:06:24 <saga> I found that mixing service in TOR's site...
419 2012-07-27 09:06:38 <saga> so I have been curious
420 2012-07-27 09:07:03 <saga> what exactly is it? does Bitcoin provide such service itself?
421 2012-07-27 09:07:24 <saga> can we do this for our bitcoin client or sites?
422 2012-07-27 09:09:38 <saga> okay, I think I have to study a lot on it...
423 2012-07-27 09:09:51 <saga> but can u guyz tell me this..
424 2012-07-27 09:09:54 <saga> when a transaction comes in is there a way to show "Pending XXX BTC waiting on X confirmations"?
425 2012-07-27 09:10:44 <saga> is it possible to get the sent amount before confirmation?
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455 2012-07-27 09:59:08 <t7> ;;bc,blocks
456 2012-07-27 09:59:08 <gribble> 190999
457 2012-07-27 09:59:49 <t7> take your time
458 2012-07-27 10:00:28 <t7> saga: with the official client?
459 2012-07-27 10:00:42 tsche has joined
460 2012-07-27 10:00:49 <t7> there are websites todo this
461 2012-07-27 10:01:06 sytse has joined
462 2012-07-27 10:01:25 <saga> ohhh...yes yes
463 2012-07-27 10:01:40 <saga> I though no 1 is here..
464 2012-07-27 10:01:49 <saga> actually the thing tis..
465 2012-07-27 10:02:16 <saga> when I am sending an amount to other address, it does got confirmed instantly..
466 2012-07-27 10:02:33 <saga> it takes time based on no, of confirmaitons
467 2012-07-27 10:02:35 Clipse has joined
468 2012-07-27 10:03:23 <saga> now, my question is, how can I get that uncinfirmed amount for the receiving address/account?
469 2012-07-27 10:03:31 <saga> is there any way?
470 2012-07-27 10:03:34 da2ce7 has joined
471 2012-07-27 10:04:05 <t7> duno lol ¯\(-_-)/¯
472 2012-07-27 10:04:18 <saga> :-p
473 2012-07-27 10:04:22 <saga> lol
474 2012-07-27 10:04:35 <saga> do any1 here have knowledge on it?
475 2012-07-27 10:04:56 <saga> I tried some rpc function to get that..but no deserving result!!!!
476 2012-07-27 10:05:06 tsche has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
477 2012-07-27 10:05:41 davout_ has joined
478 2012-07-27 10:06:03 <[7]> saga: the get transactions rcp api does return unconfirmed transactions as well
479 2012-07-27 10:06:11 <Joric> what's that upper underscore ¯ how did you type it
480 2012-07-27 10:06:57 <saga> ohh really! do u know that function name?
481 2012-07-27 10:06:59 tsche has joined
482 2012-07-27 10:07:35 <[7]> Joric: on linux on a german keyboard (my setup) it's altgr+shift+plus
483 2012-07-27 10:08:02 <[7]> saga: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Original_Bitcoin_client/API_Calls_list
484 2012-07-27 10:08:21 <[7]> the listtransactions call
485 2012-07-27 10:09:06 Clipse-b has joined
486 2012-07-27 10:09:09 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
487 2012-07-27 10:10:26 <saga> its looking good...thanks :)
488 2012-07-27 10:11:28 tsche has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
489 2012-07-27 10:11:37 <Joric> [7], i wonder what this char can be used for except that duno lol smile
490 2012-07-27 10:11:38 <t7> arnt you on holiday?
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522 2012-07-27 12:10:23 <t7> where can i find info about blckindex.dat etc?
523 2012-07-27 12:10:42 <t7> i guess its DBD format or something
524 2012-07-27 12:15:19 <edcba> berkley db
525 2012-07-27 12:15:28 <t7> BDB*
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531 2012-07-27 12:34:35 <MagicalTux> gribble: testing something
532 2012-07-27 12:36:52 Graet has joined
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534 2012-07-27 12:50:30 Prattler has joined
535 2012-07-27 12:52:29 <t7> geez you guys should use namespacing or something
536 2012-07-27 12:52:35 <t7> i cant find a damn thing
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551 2012-07-27 13:18:47 <jgarzik> heh
552 2012-07-27 13:18:57 <jgarzik> coblee, on litecoin: "Our current network hashrate is at 315 mhash/s. That may be an all time high!"
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560 2012-07-27 13:44:16 <edcba> what is litecoin ?
561 2012-07-27 13:45:33 <edcba> is it just a stupid fork with tweaked parameters ,
562 2012-07-27 13:45:34 <edcba> ?
563 2012-07-27 13:45:40 p0s has joined
564 2012-07-27 13:45:44 <epscy> yes
565 2012-07-27 13:45:46 <edcba> (by a non early adopter)
566 2012-07-27 13:45:49 <edcba> ok lol
567 2012-07-27 13:46:41 <epscy> i think the main difference is that blocks are every 2.5 minutes as opposed to 10
568 2012-07-27 13:46:56 <edcba> hmm changed algo and liter blockchain
569 2012-07-27 13:47:00 * edcba loogs
570 2012-07-27 13:47:01 <epscy> it's blockchain is already quite large despite no one really using it
571 2012-07-27 13:47:02 <edcba> looks
572 2012-07-27 13:47:37 <epscy> i think 10 minutes is fine, but i wish the variance wasn't so high
573 2012-07-27 13:48:55 <t7> its for the hackers and their botnets
574 2012-07-27 13:49:40 <BlueMatt> ls
575 2012-07-27 13:49:48 <BlueMatt> heh, wrong window
576 2012-07-27 13:49:56 saga has quit (Quit: Page closed)
577 2012-07-27 13:49:57 <epscy> .
578 2012-07-27 13:49:59 <epscy> ..
579 2012-07-27 13:50:11 <epscy> ./D0nk3yPR0n/
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582 2012-07-27 13:55:19 <doublec> edcba: it uses a different pow algorithm that was supposed to be gpu resistant
583 2012-07-27 13:55:47 <edcba> i don't see how you could do a gpu resistant algo
584 2012-07-27 13:56:51 <edcba> ok maybe i see
585 2012-07-27 13:57:26 <edcba> the problem is that it would be as long to verify than to generate
586 2012-07-27 13:58:09 <edcba> i don't see where they have a smaller block
587 2012-07-27 13:58:32 kicek has joined
588 2012-07-27 13:59:30 <epscy> edcba: memory hard rather than cpu hard
589 2012-07-27 13:59:50 <epscy> but i think gpu's are still better at scrypt than cpu's
590 2012-07-27 13:59:50 kicek has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
591 2012-07-27 14:00:06 <epscy> the advantage isn't as big as bitcoins alog though
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602 2012-07-27 14:23:11 <t7> if you have a heavy branching algorithm it will be faster on cpu, right?
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608 2012-07-27 14:30:43 <quintopia> t7: as compared to a GPU, yes, but not compared to an algorithm that minimizes branches
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610 2012-07-27 14:36:24 <jgarzik> pynode now processes every p2p message except 'alert'
611 2012-07-27 14:37:30 <jgarzik> EvalScript() is in place, now to hook it up to TX verification
612 2012-07-27 14:38:15 <t7> source
613 2012-07-27 14:42:16 <t7> my blockchain updating is going realllllllyyyyyyyy slow
614 2012-07-27 14:42:22 <t7> 3 blocks in about 30 mins
615 2012-07-27 14:42:37 <t7> not using much cpu... 7 peers...
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626 2012-07-27 15:14:50 <sturles> Perhaps one of your peers is mine.  It is always up and among the top 20 on the seeds list, but the output bandwidth to incoming nodes is throttled to 200 kbps.  Shared between about 100 incoming connections, so ~2kbps per incoming peer.
627 2012-07-27 15:16:06 <sturles> My home ADSL is only 640 kbps out, and my IP phone stops working if I don't throttle.
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629 2012-07-27 15:35:12 <gavinandresen> sturles, you should run with -maxconnections=10
630 2012-07-27 15:35:27 <gavinandresen> ... or maybe even -nolisten
631 2012-07-27 15:35:47 <gavinandresen> you're not helping the network if you're responding really slowly to peer requests
632 2012-07-27 15:36:32 <sturles> Good point.  I want to help the network, but it is probably best to limit the number of connections when my bandwidh is low.
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637 2012-07-27 15:39:31 <sturles> I have 8 addnodes to known well connected nodes which are less likely to download several blocks in a row, and those are not throttled.
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639 2012-07-27 15:40:15 <sturles> This reduces the likelyhood of my new blocks getting orphaned as well.
640 2012-07-27 15:40:50 * sturles sets maxconnections to 16
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650 2012-07-27 16:03:32 sytse has joined
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652 2012-07-27 16:13:30 <mcorlett> Is bitcoinwatch.com's custom bitcoin daemon publicly available?
653 2012-07-27 16:19:09 MC-Eeepc has joined
654 2012-07-27 16:19:20 <gavinandresen> http://testnet.freebitcoins.appspot.com/  is now testnet3
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667 2012-07-27 16:54:30 <killerstorm> Lolcust: hi
668 2012-07-27 16:54:41 Muis has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
669 2012-07-27 16:54:42 <Lolcust> Hi killerstorm!
670 2012-07-27 16:54:43 <mb300sd> whats a good addnode for testnet3? Its just sitting at 0 connections
671 2012-07-27 16:57:41 <killerstorm> So, yeah, I'm considering making an alt chain. Unless I'll get scared of it...
672 2012-07-27 16:58:07 <gmaxwell> mb300sd: there are working nodes in IRC, so it should do okay on its own.
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686 2012-07-27 17:26:32 DATAGUTT is now known as datagutt
687 2012-07-27 17:32:39 <Lolcust> killerstorm got my PMs ?
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699 2012-07-27 17:55:17 <user> hi, i'm on a nokia n800 and
700 2012-07-27 17:55:58 <user> i need an ewallet that is avle to import sipa private key format
701 2012-07-27 17:56:06 <user> anyone know?
702 2012-07-27 17:56:12 <user> able
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795 2012-07-27 21:14:24 in is now known as RainbowDashh
796 2012-07-27 21:17:48 <MC-Eeepc> is there any way of doing a portable install of bitcoin
797 2012-07-27 21:17:54 <MC-Eeepc> on a usb drive
798 2012-07-27 21:19:29 <helo> live usb ;)
799 2012-07-27 21:20:34 datagutt has joined
800 2012-07-27 21:24:00 <MC-Eeepc> no, just bitcoin
801 2012-07-27 21:24:52 <helo> if the host OS is set up just right, it will work
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808 2012-07-27 21:49:14 <MC-Eeepc> well thats not very portable
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810 2012-07-27 21:55:46 <helo> what OSes (and versions) do you want to be able to "plug and run" it on?
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812 2012-07-27 21:58:33 <luke-jr> MC-Eeepc: portable means you can easily compile it for new platforms. bitcoin is already fairly portable.
813 2012-07-27 21:58:49 <luke-jr> MC-Eeepc: and you don't want to carry it to random computers on a USB stick; that's a security disaster
814 2012-07-27 21:59:35 <MC-Eeepc> only on my machines
815 2012-07-27 22:01:14 <MC-Eeepc> it would be good if there was a way to unlock your wallet safely on an untrusted machine i suppose
816 2012-07-27 22:01:20 <helo> not possible
817 2012-07-27 22:01:31 Maccer has joined
818 2012-07-27 22:01:39 <MC-Eeepc> probably not
819 2012-07-27 22:02:12 <helo> if you need access to your wallet in arbitrary locations, you'll probably have to use a mobile phone client
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846 2012-07-27 23:00:32 <midnightmagic> why is there a small portion of my testnet block reward going to mzW2hdZN2um7WBvTDerdahKqRgj3md9C29 ?
847 2012-07-27 23:01:03 Ferroh is now known as working!~ferroh@76-10-162-68.dsl.teksavvy.com|Ferroh
848 2012-07-27 23:02:54 <midnightmagic> must be p2pool. cool!
849 2012-07-27 23:03:59 Ferroh is now known as Ferroh|working
850 2012-07-27 23:15:22 <mb300sd> I still can't seem to connect to testnet3, have 10 connections for 3 hours and 0 blocks
851 2012-07-27 23:19:49 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
852 2012-07-27 23:20:22 <midnightmagic> mb300sd: do you have git log reference a9d811a9760720d29eb1be3b738e59a1621cc6d6 ?
853 2012-07-27 23:20:32 <midnightmagic> commitid, whatever
854 2012-07-27 23:21:47 <mb300sd> not sure, I compiled the latest from here, https://gitorious.org/~Luke-Jr/bitcoin/luke-jr-bitcoin/trees/coincontrol
855 2012-07-27 23:22:01 <luke-jr> mb300sd: that's not meant to be compiled directly.
856 2012-07-27 23:22:28 <luke-jr> for the vast majority of my branches, you're supposed to checkout master and merge it
857 2012-07-27 23:22:32 <mb300sd> i meant this one, https://gitorious.org/bitcoin/luke-jr-bitcoin/trees/0.6.x+coincontrol
858 2012-07-27 23:22:39 <luke-jr> that isn't maintained
859 2012-07-27 23:23:05 TD has joined
860 2012-07-27 23:23:07 <mb300sd> yeah, I need to switch my code to use raw tx
861 2012-07-27 23:23:33 <mb300sd> well, it works for now, i'll play with testnet later
862 2012-07-27 23:23:54 <midnightmagic> mb300sd: testnet3 has a new message identifier as of the commitid I mentioned. you'll have to get it from the normal bitcoind repository unless luke has a branch somewhere where he merged that change in
863 2012-07-27 23:26:27 <mb300sd> I guess its not in the version i'm running.. i'll just wait to play with testnet until I mod my other code to work with raw tx instead of coin control
864 2012-07-27 23:26:30 <midnightmagic> boo, testnet3 has a special testnet3 difficulty rule
865 2012-07-27 23:26:49 <midnightmagic> when did that come in? lol
866 2012-07-27 23:26:54 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: during testnet2.
867 2012-07-27 23:27:06 <gmaxwell> don't boo. it makes testnet not freeking useless.
868 2012-07-27 23:27:07 <luke-jr> lol
869 2012-07-27 23:27:34 <midnightmagic> it's also a divergence from main
870 2012-07-27 23:27:43 <gmaxwell> Yes, which makes it regretful.
871 2012-07-27 23:28:19 <gmaxwell> But basically no one was using testnet at all because someone would get testnet crazy, drive the difficulty to 40.. then leave and we'd go a week without a block.
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873 2012-07-27 23:28:59 <midnightmagic> i just wanted a bunch of testnet coins while difficulty was low :)
874 2012-07-27 23:29:11 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: I'll give you a bunch.
875 2012-07-27 23:29:46 <gmaxwell> and the difficulty will likely not get much higher than it is now.
876 2012-07-27 23:30:08 Bitxk has joined
877 2012-07-27 23:30:09 <midnightmagic> well it's okay now, i'm going to punch it up to .. hrm.. perhaps 12090 ..
878 2012-07-27 23:30:17 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: testnet has 2 purposes which require this compromise :P
879 2012-07-27 23:30:43 <luke-jr> besides testing the code, it also aims to be useful for merchants/services/etc to test their stuff without spending real bitcoins
880 2012-07-27 23:30:59 <luke-jr> (ideally publicly accessible)
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882 2012-07-27 23:31:22 <luke-jr> so for example, I should be able to go to testnet.MtGox.com and play around
883 2012-07-27 23:31:27 <luke-jr> (hint hint MagicalTux :P)
884 2012-07-27 23:31:50 <midnightmagic> yes, please raise up an exchange so we can laugh at all the losers who whine when testnet4 comes along!
885 2012-07-27 23:32:18 <midnightmagic> "reset time, stop trading testnet coins"
886 2012-07-27 23:32:24 <MagicalTux> :þ
887 2012-07-27 23:32:30 random_cat__ has joined
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889 2012-07-27 23:32:51 <gmaxwell> Well it really should be the case that services should support testnet: it gives their service more testing, and it lets potential customers try it out.
890 2012-07-27 23:32:52 <midnightmagic> MagicalTux: I'm just saying that enabling an exchange on testnet coins will impart value to them.
891 2012-07-27 23:33:06 <MagicalTux> midnightmagic: unless you can only trade against TESTUSD
892 2012-07-27 23:33:10 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: it wouldn't be a real exchange. exchange with TESTUSD.
893 2012-07-27 23:33:15 <gmaxwell> _exactly_.
894 2012-07-27 23:33:29 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: well, testnet.mtgox.com as I envision it would not use real fiat either :P
895 2012-07-27 23:33:43 <gmaxwell> I'd have fun printing out testusd to mail to people. :)
896 2012-07-27 23:34:01 <midnightmagic> MagicalTux: it'll be a small value, but it'll be a value. :)
897 2012-07-27 23:34:25 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: It won't matter. People were willing to trade btc for large volumes of testnet coins on testnet 1 and 2.
898 2012-07-27 23:34:38 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: does Dwolla have a testnet? :p
899 2012-07-27 23:34:48 <MagicalTux> luke-jr: not that I know of
900 2012-07-27 23:34:50 <MagicalTux> paypal does
901 2012-07-27 23:34:59 <luke-jr> yeah, but MtGox doesn't support paypal…
902 2012-07-27 23:35:08 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: yea, and if that starts impeading testusage we'll reset again.
903 2012-07-27 23:35:16 <MagicalTux> yea, and paypal's system won't allow test accounts to communicate with other people's test accounts
904 2012-07-27 23:35:27 <luke-jr> oh
905 2012-07-27 23:35:36 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: lame :-X
906 2012-07-27 23:36:10 <MagicalTux> we've been considering a test mtgox using bitcoin testnet
907 2012-07-27 23:36:17 BurtyB has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
908 2012-07-27 23:36:20 <MagicalTux> with interface for people to modify their usd/etc balances freely
909 2012-07-27 23:36:35 <MagicalTux> (except TBTC)
910 2012-07-27 23:37:23 <MagicalTux> most difficult part is ensure that people will not get scammed by other people pretending to pay them with TESTUSD
911 2012-07-27 23:37:31 <MagicalTux> is to*
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915 2012-07-27 23:47:25 <jgarzik> would be nice, if mtgox was on testnet
916 2012-07-27 23:47:30 <jgarzik> SD, not so much ;)
917 2012-07-27 23:47:48 <andyrossy> xD
918 2012-07-27 23:47:53 <luke-jr> jgarzik: hey, if SD were to switch to (only) testnet, that'd be awesome!
919 2012-07-27 23:47:54 <andyrossy> or satoshidice on testnet?
920 2012-07-27 23:47:56 <andyrossy> o.O
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922 2012-07-27 23:48:22 <andyrossy> i'd love to see what would happen if i sent statoshi dice mega mirrion of bets
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