1 2012-08-23 00:03:08 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: the pulltester running on merged and closed things is kinda boring.
   2 2012-08-23 00:04:20 <sipa> though reassuring!
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   4 2012-08-23 00:05:02 <gmaxwell> sipa: but, ... why doesn't the merge fail?
   5 2012-08-23 00:05:08 <gmaxwell> Still find it reassuring? :)
   6 2012-08-23 00:05:10 <sipa> on what?
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   8 2012-08-23 00:05:51 <gmaxwell> I mean, if it's already merged, how can the pulltester merge it again? :)
   9 2012-08-23 00:06:26 <sipa> merging an already-merged branch should be a no-op
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  11 2012-08-23 00:08:07 <gmaxwell> ah, git am fails o nrepeats.
  12 2012-08-23 00:09:46 <sipa> there are *many* non-standard signatures in the chain already...
  13 2012-08-23 00:10:14 <gmaxwell> sipa: I wonder who the guilty party is.
  14 2012-08-23 00:10:32 <sipa> and all kinds of errors
  15 2012-08-23 00:11:18 <sipa> 6 different ones already
  16 2012-08-23 00:11:47 <sipa> and already over 1000 offences at block 157k
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  18 2012-08-23 00:12:16 <sipa> i wonder... maybe bitcoinj?
  19 2012-08-23 00:12:39 <sipa> (just an uninformed guess; i don't want to make accusations)
  20 2012-08-23 00:13:51 <CodeLion> Quick question before I present a possible idea, when mining, is the resulting hash (A through H in terms of 32 bit registers) treated as big-endian or little-endian when compared to the difficulty?
  21 2012-08-23 00:14:54 <sipa> CodeLion: i dare not say; bitcoin converts the resulting hash in some weird application-specific way to a number, and compares that
  22 2012-08-23 00:15:25 <CodeLion> oh, that's odd sipa... Let me check the wiki
  23 2012-08-23 00:16:00 <lianj> sipa: how can i find non-standard signatures?
  24 2012-08-23 00:16:11 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  25 2012-08-23 00:16:28 <sipa> lianj: i'm working on a patch
  26 2012-08-23 00:17:15 <CodeLion> According to this page, https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_hashing_algorithm, the value is Big endian when it comes out of SHA, but converts to little endian for comparison.
  27 2012-08-23 00:17:16 <CodeLion> :D
  28 2012-08-23 00:17:23 <CodeLion> Anyway here is my thought
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  30 2012-08-23 00:17:24 <lianj> more like, how is a standard signature defined?
  31 2012-08-23 00:18:16 <sipa> lianj: DER encoding
  32 2012-08-23 00:18:29 <sipa> but OpenSSL accepts any BER encoded signature
  33 2012-08-23 00:19:22 <lianj> ah ok
  34 2012-08-23 00:19:43 <CodeLion> Since the register H corrosponds to what ends up as the first 32 bits of the hash, you can actually know wether a hash will meet difficulty as many as 4 cycles from the end of the second hash, since the value of H in round I is the same as the value of E in round I-4
  35 2012-08-23 00:19:52 <CodeLion> I'm pretty sure someone already figured this out though
  36 2012-08-23 00:19:58 <CodeLion> But if not, yay
  37 2012-08-23 00:20:02 <lianj> sipa: i didnt thought the signature was more than r + s and maybe a version infront
  38 2012-08-23 00:20:19 <sipa> lianj: DER encoding is a lot more, unfortunately
  39 2012-08-23 00:20:23 <lianj> ha
  40 2012-08-23 00:20:25 <sipa> on average 8 bytes waste
  41 2012-08-23 00:20:38 <gmaxwell> CodeLion: yes, all miners utilize that.
  42 2012-08-23 00:20:49 <CodeLion> Ok, just thought I'd mention it. :D
  43 2012-08-23 00:20:57 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: it wont start on merged and closed things if they are merged and closed at the time, but when it takes a few hours to run...states change
  44 2012-08-23 00:21:26 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: k. I didn't know if you saw the updates in the rss feed and ran anyways. Fair enough.
  45 2012-08-23 00:21:28 <BlueMatt> if you mean update it to check state as it goes...meh
  46 2012-08-23 00:21:39 <BlueMatt> no, it just polls github's api
  47 2012-08-23 00:21:47 <gmaxwell> nah nah. So long as it checks when it starts.
  48 2012-08-23 00:24:00 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: random BTW... any chance you could dig out any remaining redundant GetHash() cleanups?
  49 2012-08-23 00:24:22 <sipa> jgarzik: i already did that in ultraprune
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  51 2012-08-23 00:24:30 <sipa> the patch may be backportable
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  53 2012-08-23 00:25:09 <gmaxwell> hurray for the grand future where sha256 is our bottleneck.
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  55 2012-08-23 00:27:13 <sipa> CodeLion: i wouldn't dare guessing how many man-hours were already spent on trying to squeeze the last bit of performance out of the mining process :)
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  57 2012-08-23 00:27:29 <sipa> CodeLion: and the trick you mention was at least known in december 2010
  58 2012-08-23 00:27:50 <sipa> (i saw it in poclbm's source code back then, when i was trying to optimize it myself)
  59 2012-08-23 00:28:01 <CodeLion> I know which is why I assumed somone already found it, I just figured I'd mention it incase somehow it hadn't been found
  60 2012-08-23 00:28:02 <CodeLion> :D
  61 2012-08-23 00:28:07 <sipa> sure :)
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  88 2012-08-23 01:07:05 <stamit> -otc is also logged. i am used to it. it's ok, BCBot
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  91 2012-08-23 01:12:42 <stamit> i thought i'd visit -dev. how are those crypto primitives? you think we'll have a QC-resistant bitcoin?
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  93 2012-08-23 01:16:13 <stamit> that was my main suggestion here. the software is fine. i hardly cared to upgrade to the QT version
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 101 2012-08-23 01:31:21 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
 102 2012-08-23 01:31:21 <gribble> 195238
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 106 2012-08-23 01:41:21 <guigeek> hello someone have try the perl module WebService::MtGox  ?
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 154 2012-08-23 03:14:33 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: just checked in the s/Crypto.Hash/hashlib/ change here
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 173 2012-08-23 04:21:14 <jgarzik> well, damn.  my cPickle caching trick was actually slower than manually copying a CTransaction, attribute by attribute
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 175 2012-08-23 04:21:38 <jgarzik> git checkout -f
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 262 2012-08-23 08:15:15 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, ps i've found the serialize/deseralize type operations in python are roughly 200x slower than the equivalent in c++
 263 2012-08-23 08:15:17 <phantomcircuit> sad panda
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 319 2012-08-23 11:50:33 <Eliel> http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Rob/office-worker.png it's too silent in here :)
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 331 2012-08-23 12:18:25 <t7> heh
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 333 2012-08-23 12:18:32 <t7> at least he has a nice view
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 363 2012-08-23 13:41:01 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: you know what is the slowest operation during signature checking?
 364 2012-08-23 13:41:09 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: creating a CTransaction() copy
 365 2012-08-23 13:41:27 <jgarzik> not the actual sigcheck
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 371 2012-08-23 13:53:51 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: pynode is quite fast, though, if you turn off sigchecks
 372 2012-08-23 13:56:06 Guest55384 is now known as bitzero
 373 2012-08-23 13:56:07 <gmaxwell> sipa: a slightly unforuntate result of pull 1720 is that an attacker could network isolate old pre-bip16 nodes by constantly flooding invalid transactions.
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 375 2012-08-23 13:56:27 <gmaxwell> sipa: if there are any pre-bip16 miners remaining, the attacker will be able to force the creation of a forked network.
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 386 2012-08-23 14:24:54 <jgarzik> pynode script verification enabled in main node
 387 2012-08-23 14:25:11 <jgarzik> pynode now does chain reorg and script verf by default... it's slow, but fully validating
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 389 2012-08-23 14:28:57 <sipa> jgarzik: nice!
 390 2012-08-23 14:29:49 <sipa> jgarzik: by the way, ultraprune does not keep the utxo set in RAM (though it should be small enough to remain cached entirely)
 391 2012-08-23 14:30:02 <jgarzik> sipa: interesting
 392 2012-08-23 14:30:38 <sipa> i have a test branch that does keep it in RAM, for benchmarking, and maybe i can make that optional to enable it at runtime too
 393 2012-08-23 14:31:21 <jgarzik> sipa: post update
 394 2012-08-23 14:31:23 <sipa> but the time difference between bdb with large enough cache, and just storing in ram is not very large (20% difference for IBD or so)
 395 2012-08-23 14:31:24 <jgarzik> *updated
 396 2012-08-23 14:31:39 <jgarzik> sipa: I think it is probably better to store on disk for DoS reasons
 397 2012-08-23 14:32:22 <sipa> it also reorganizes automatically if the block database contains more recent blocks than the coin database
 398 2012-08-23 14:32:26 <jgarzik> pagedb directly mmaps the data, so it should be quite fast and cacheable
 399 2012-08-23 14:33:05 <sipa> so if you miss commits to the coindb (by keeping them in memory, and only dumping occassionally for example), there is no problem
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 407 2012-08-23 14:42:21 * jgarzik hasn't made up his mind on undo records yet
 408 2012-08-23 14:43:01 * jgarzik plans on storing block data, so might as well just regenerate the data from the old blocks being reorg'd
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 419 2012-08-23 15:24:32 <sebicas> Guys, thanks for your help the other days… I was able to do what I wanted to do..
 420 2012-08-23 15:25:05 <sebicas> And since I thinks it could help others… here is my code: https://github.com/sebicas/bitcoin-sniffer
 421 2012-08-23 15:25:23 <sebicas> I am calling it Bitcoin Sniffer :)
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 451 2012-08-23 16:08:37 <sebicas> [ANN] BTC Sniffer: Bitcoin P2P Network Sniffer & Events Trigger
 452 2012-08-23 16:08:39 <sebicas> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102740.0
 453 2012-08-23 16:11:45 <jgarzik> sebicas: note that that code is maintained as a branch, https://github.com/jgarzik/pynode/tree/mini-node
 454 2012-08-23 16:11:54 <jgarzik> sebicas: if you have fixes to the base code, I'd appreciate a pull request
 455 2012-08-23 16:12:30 <sebicas> jgarzik: I am not a python developer, so the code may not very clean..
 456 2012-08-23 16:13:10 <sebicas> jgarzik: I didn't know you have a branch… I will check it and see if I can contribute with something...
 457 2012-08-23 16:13:12 <jgarzik> sebicas: I'm not either!
 458 2012-08-23 16:14:10 <jgarzik> sebicas: just saying if you find bugs etc., we should make sure all projects know about it
 459 2012-08-23 16:14:30 <jgarzik> share the knowledge, share the fixes for the benefit of all projects
 460 2012-08-23 16:15:16 <sebicas> jgarzik: Sure! If I would it know what you have this branch I would just fork and make the changes on that :)
 461 2012-08-23 16:15:36 <jgarzik> sebicas: yeah, sorry, that's my fault
 462 2012-08-23 16:16:08 <sebicas> jgarzik: when I checked pynode it had a lot of features I didn't need.
 463 2012-08-23 16:16:19 <sebicas> But this mini-node is great.
 464 2012-08-23 16:16:31 gavin_onatrain has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 465 2012-08-23 16:16:34 <sebicas> It could have save my a few hours :)
 466 2012-08-23 16:16:49 <jgarzik> sebicas: yeah, a fully validating node is too much for some monitoring needs
 467 2012-08-23 16:17:43 <sebicas> jgarzik: Now I see: "See the "mini-node" branch for a single-file, non-chaindb node." didn't see it before :(
 468 2012-08-23 16:18:07 <jgarzik> sebicas: the goal with pynode was to create a "python-bitcoin" where you simply use what pieces of the lib you need, and ignore the rest, just like the python standard lib.  that is true for basic code like serialization... but not true for the P2P node itself, making the python-bitcoin useless for your network sniffer project.
 469 2012-08-23 16:18:36 <jgarzik> eventually python-bitcoin should be useful to your project...  but right now, forking mini-node is far easier
 470 2012-08-23 16:19:44 <jgarzik> sebicas: PS I just plugged your project with a link, in the pynode thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=94645.msg1126803#msg1126803
 471 2012-08-23 16:20:07 <sebicas> jgarzik: yes totally I wanted to have independence from the node itself, so I could write extensions with out needing to modify the bitcoind code… so if a new version is released I can just upgrade with with need to change my extensions code
 472 2012-08-23 16:20:27 nsh has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 473 2012-08-23 16:20:28 <sebicas> Thanks jgarzik!
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 476 2012-08-23 16:22:37 <sebicas> jgarzik!: I can create a fork an push some changes..
 477 2012-08-23 16:22:48 <sebicas> jgarzik!: the main two changes are:
 478 2012-08-23 16:23:05 <sebicas> jgarzik!: Use hashlib instead of Crypto.Hash, the latter is mostly not installed
 479 2012-08-23 16:23:22 <sebicas> jgarzik!: Adding new_tx_event
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 481 2012-08-23 16:23:38 <sebicas> jgarzik!: Passing block or tx info to events
 482 2012-08-23 16:26:36 <jgarzik> sebicas: sure, sounds good
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 523 2012-08-23 18:00:08 * jgarzik pokes an absent gavin about 0.7rc1
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 525 2012-08-23 18:03:00 <gmaxwell> What are we going to do with https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1393 ? It's been in luke's 'next' and 'next-test' for some time, and so it's had a least some real world testing.  It resolves some somewhat frequent complaints/questions with the wallet behavior.
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 528 2012-08-23 18:07:24 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: don't care.  no objection, if others want it.
 529 2012-08-23 18:08:24 <sipa> gmaxwell: same; i have too little experience with real use to comment, but I don't object
 530 2012-08-23 18:09:33 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: plz rebase. I'll give it one more test and then pull.
 531 2012-08-23 18:09:46 <Luke-Jr> k..
 532 2012-08-23 18:10:32 * Luke-Jr wonders if there's a way to disable the automatic git gc that doesn't work <.<
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 534 2012-08-23 18:16:50 <Luke-Jr> sipa: I thought mere users weren't supposed to +1 on github? ;)
 535 2012-08-23 18:17:06 <Luke-Jr> shall I put out a call for first-class messaging users to back me up? :P
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 537 2012-08-23 18:19:29 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: meh, why do you care about an option?  Aruging for a better default layout makes sense, but an option?
 538 2012-08-23 18:20:17 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: because there are more people with the opposing layout opinion at the moment
 539 2012-08-23 18:20:45 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: What are the behaviors (you know I hardly use the GUI) with and without it now?
 540 2012-08-23 18:21:22 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 541 2012-08-23 18:21:27 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: second-class messaging: you have to go to the File menu and select "Sign Message" or "Verify Message", and get a dialog to do that in
 542 2012-08-23 18:21:50 molecular has joined
 543 2012-08-23 18:21:52 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: first-class message: the tab bar has a "Signatures" item with a panel in the main window like everything else
 544 2012-08-23 18:22:08 <Luke-Jr> messaging*
 545 2012-08-23 18:24:47 <gmaxwell> hm. 'meh'. I don't think adding tools to tabs makes a ton of sense. Why don't we have a tools menu?   Where are we going to put tools for escrows and custom transactions, when we get gui for them?
 546 2012-08-23 18:32:13 <Luke-Jr> ok, made a poll, done with distraction to merely preserve status-quo features… back to rebasing -.-
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 563 2012-08-23 19:08:45 <vegard> is 0.6.3 safe against the merkle thingy exploit?
 564 2012-08-23 19:08:53 <gmaxwell> Yes.
 565 2012-08-23 19:08:59 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: any idea whats going on here? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/898
 566 2012-08-23 19:10:30 <vegard> thanks.
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 569 2012-08-23 19:16:38 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: not really
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 586 2012-08-23 19:30:32 <Mqrius> A friend of mine is still running 0.6.0, and sent a transaction with it. It doesn't show up on the blockchain, even now that his client finished downloading the most recent blocks
 587 2012-08-23 19:30:38 <Mqrius> What's the next thing I should have him try?
 588 2012-08-23 19:31:36 <Mqrius> Oh it just came through.
 589 2012-08-23 19:31:37 <Mqrius> Weird.
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 599 2012-08-23 19:54:51 <Luke-Jr> Mqrius: 0.6.0 has known exploits
 600 2012-08-23 19:55:26 <Mqrius> Luke-Jr: DoS exploits, right?
 601 2012-08-23 19:55:32 <Mqrius> He's updating now, anyway :)
 602 2012-08-23 19:56:04 <Luke-Jr> Mqrius: he could see over 6 confirmations on a bogus double-spend
 603 2012-08-23 19:56:35 <Luke-Jr> although that takes a lot of work assuming all the miners are updated..
 604 2012-08-23 19:57:16 <Mqrius> I'm not entirely sure if he saw confirmations at all (troubleshooting over phone chat :x)
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 606 2012-08-23 19:57:56 <Mqrius> It seems the transaction didn't reach the network at first, and then took some time for a re-send after he was fully connected/synchronized. Not sure if that's normal.
 607 2012-08-23 19:58:23 <Luke-Jr> re-send is random
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 616 2012-08-23 20:25:31 <BlueMatt> TD: redid part of bloom branch:
 617 2012-08-23 20:25:39 <TD> cool
 618 2012-08-23 20:25:41 <BlueMatt> TD: MSG_FILTERED_BLOCK is now separate
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 620 2012-08-23 20:25:58 <BlueMatt> now actually cache txes for relayblocks
 621 2012-08-23 20:26:26 <BlueMatt> (but Im not a big fan of it, as it has to throw the txes away after 15 minutes (as it is now))
 622 2012-08-23 20:26:47 <BlueMatt> also, automatically relay txes when sending filtered blocks if its not in setInventoryKnown
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 625 2012-08-23 20:30:24 <TD> sounds like it'll be ready for a pull req soon, if not already
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 628 2012-08-23 20:31:18 <BlueMatt> well, need to decide on how, exactly, to cache txes when relaying blocks with hashes, but thats the only marked TODO left I think
 629 2012-08-23 20:31:29 <BlueMatt> but...yea
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 635 2012-08-23 20:45:54 <sebicas> How can I do to decode CTxIn(prevout=COutPoint(hash=9dbc7e3b8f74be6e26dab1018bb2d91d79dace2cfd3e174cf9065275712f1c2d n=0) scriptSig=473044022031ae489dabb2e4fc111667e03dc5d5be95674669b5651acf84a5e2b54ad7eafe022041dc0dcaba90f54d21cc2a416f72eb8da701d6a3e96d812d378bc717fcb9d6660121036a4468d1425a38fbd4e7bd9b5658be3310df401261c8161b5209d90ca8119692 nSequence=4294967295)
 636 2012-08-23 20:45:59 Marf has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 637 2012-08-23 20:46:03 <sebicas> To an address and amount?
 638 2012-08-23 20:48:02 Diapolo has joined
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 653 2012-08-23 21:03:34 <gmaxwell> 'rev' doesn't do what I expected. 0_o ... what the heck is the use of that command?
 654 2012-08-23 21:04:02 <gmaxwell> man, am I the only person mining testnet3 right now?
 655 2012-08-23 21:07:42 bonks has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 656 2012-08-23 21:09:13 <Diapolo> gmaxwell: I do sometimes :) but via CPU and only very rarely
 657 2012-08-23 21:13:37 roconnor has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 658 2012-08-23 21:15:31 <forrestv> sebicas, you have to lookup the amount and script in the referenced txout
 659 2012-08-23 21:15:55 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: I have a core mining on testnet3
 660 2012-08-23 21:16:03 <sebicas> forest any easy way to do that?
 661 2012-08-23 21:16:15 <sebicas> forrestv: any easy way to do that?
 662 2012-08-23 21:16:50 <forrestv> sebicas, look at http://blockexplorer.com/tx/9dbc7e3b8f74be6e26dab1018bb2d91d79dace2cfd3e174cf9065275712f1c2d . it's output #0
 663 2012-08-23 21:16:55 <jgarzik>     "balance" : 3150.00000000,
 664 2012-08-23 21:16:55 <jgarzik>     "blocks" : 21020,
 665 2012-08-23 21:16:55 <jgarzik>     "connections" : 3,
 666 2012-08-23 21:17:03 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: block count correct?
 667 2012-08-23 21:17:16 <gmaxwell>     "blocks" : 21020,
 668 2012-08-23 21:17:49 <sebicas> This is what I have http://blockexplorer.com/rawtx/9dbc7e3b8f74be6e26dab1018bb2d91d79dace2cfd3e174cf9065275712f1c2d
 669 2012-08-23 21:17:54 <sebicas> The raw transaction
 670 2012-08-23 21:18:51 <sebicas> And from that I need to know http://blockexplorer.com/tx/9dbc7e3b8f74be6e26dab1018bb2d91d79dace2cfd3e174cf9065275712f1c2d
 671 2012-08-23 21:19:26 <jgarzik> sebicas: you have to look up the previous transaction via the info in CTxIn.  then, inside prev_tx, you look at the referenced CTxOut
 672 2012-08-23 21:19:45 <sebicas> Ahh ok..
 673 2012-08-23 21:20:12 <sebicas> What about OP_DUP OP_HASH160 6575f6a169c8bdc2d27ba4ef23f63e9c5b36e56d OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG
 674 2012-08-23 21:20:17 cheesepizza has joined
 675 2012-08-23 21:20:22 <sebicas> How do I convert that to an actual address?
 676 2012-08-23 21:21:17 <forrestv> sebicas, you have to pattern match it, then base58encode that long number, packed with a few other things
 677 2012-08-23 21:21:21 <forrestv> (version, checksum)
 678 2012-08-23 21:21:32 RazielZ has joined
 679 2012-08-23 21:21:43 <sebicas> Ok.. great.. I think I got it… thanks so much!
 680 2012-08-23 21:21:59 <forrestv> sebicas, read https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Technical_background_of_Bitcoin_addresses
 681 2012-08-23 21:22:21 <forrestv> that number in the script is the 160 bit hash of the public key
 682 2012-08-23 21:22:37 <sebicas> Great thx forrestv!
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 684 2012-08-23 21:26:31 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: I mine t3 occasionally.
 685 2012-08-23 21:27:08 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: With GPU, I might add. Perhaps 1GH?  you should be able to locate a percentage of my blocks, and I haven't done it in a while.
 686 2012-08-23 21:27:14 rdponticelli has joined
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 689 2012-08-23 21:27:58 <gmaxwell> Oh. well I just cpu mine it; though actually I figured out why I have more blocks than I thought I should.
 690 2012-08-23 21:28:28 <gmaxwell> I had a patch so that it only mined when the difficulty fell to 1 under the testnet rule, and I lost it at some point.
 691 2012-08-23 21:30:12 <Muis_> is there some API which gets the bitcoin price at mtgox, where you can specify an amount? for example buying 1000 coins will result in a price of X? Because when I multiply the ticker-price its inaccurate for large amounts
 692 2012-08-23 21:30:26 <slush> what testnet is on blockexplorer.com/testnet? It is v3? I see 21k blocks here, but my node has almost 80k blocks already...
 693 2012-08-23 21:30:39 cande has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 694 2012-08-23 21:30:45 <gmaxwell> slush: v3.
 695 2012-08-23 21:31:21 pjorrit has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 696 2012-08-23 21:31:22 <slush> gmaxwell: my client is 0.6.3, what I'm doing wrong?
 697 2012-08-23 21:31:48 <Diapolo> slush: testnet3 is 0.7
 698 2012-08-23 21:31:50 <gmaxwell> slush: 0.6.3 is testnet v2. You need to run git (or the soon to be release 0.7rc1) to get testnet v3.
 699 2012-08-23 21:31:54 <slush> oh
 700 2012-08-23 21:32:01 <slush> thanks
 701 2012-08-23 21:32:13 <gmaxwell> Faucet is v3 now too.
 702 2012-08-23 21:32:26 * Luke-Jr isn't sure it makes sense to port v3 to stable
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 704 2012-08-23 21:32:44 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I don't think it does.
 705 2012-08-23 21:33:17 pjorrit has joined
 706 2012-08-23 21:34:18 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I thought you'd told me that gavin's fee updates no longer rounded fees, but they sure appear to to me.
 707 2012-08-23 21:34:24 <gmaxwell> e.g.
 708 2012-08-23 21:34:25 <gmaxwell>         int64 nMinFee = (1 + (int64)nBytes / 1000) * nBaseFee;
 709 2012-08-23 21:34:34 <gmaxwell> (thats integer division)
 710 2012-08-23 21:34:43 <slush> when will 0.7 become stable? Any eta?
 711 2012-08-23 21:34:53 <jgarzik> slush: hopefully 0.7rc1 within 24-48 hours
 712 2012-08-23 21:34:54 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: GetMinFee is not used for it, unless that's changed recently
 713 2012-08-23 21:35:01 <slush> very nice
 714 2012-08-23 21:35:14 <jgarzik> i.e. as soon as we dragoon gavin into rolling the release :)
 715 2012-08-23 21:35:26 <gmaxwell> slush: Two weeks plus whatever we slip.
 716 2012-08-23 21:35:26 <Luke-Jr> I thought Gavin said to do it without him? :p
 717 2012-08-23 21:35:29 <Luke-Jr> or is he back now?
 718 2012-08-23 21:35:33 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: he's back.
 719 2012-08-23 21:35:36 <slush> :)
 720 2012-08-23 21:35:58 <gmaxwell> (not less than two weeks, but probably not much more)
 721 2012-08-23 21:36:08 rdponticelli_ has joined
 722 2012-08-23 21:36:17 <jgarzik> Gavin said we could do it without himself, but not much moved while he was gone ;)
 723 2012-08-23 21:36:18 <Luke-Jr> also, who wants to fix gitian builds? XD
 724 2012-08-23 21:36:30 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 725 2012-08-23 21:36:38 <Diapolo> Can a dev help me out with getting the new Proxy (IPv6 / Tor stuff) into Bitcoin-Qt ... I have most of the GUI stuff done, but for sure need help with some of the blank network stuff. I intend to create a branch tomorrow for this.
 726 2012-08-23 21:36:43 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: what broke them?
 727 2012-08-23 21:36:52 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: BlueMatt's URI handler fix thing
 728 2012-08-23 21:37:13 rdponticelli_ is now known as rdponticelli
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 730 2012-08-23 21:37:37 <Diapolo> Luke-Jr: The Boost monkey-patch?
 731 2012-08-23 21:37:37 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: it's using a patch to add a #define to the boost headers, but the patch needs to be indented for gitian to work - but it'd be best to just #define before we include it, so people not using gitian don't hit the bug
 732 2012-08-23 21:37:48 nsh has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 733 2012-08-23 21:38:06 <Luke-Jr> Diapolo: yeah
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 736 2012-08-23 21:39:15 <Diapolo> Why not skip 1.49 and switch to 1.50 or even 1.51, which doesn't neet the monkey-patch? But I guess that short before a RC phase that would be a tough task.
 737 2012-08-23 21:39:28 Clipse-b has joined
 738 2012-08-23 21:39:31 <Luke-Jr> Diapolo: no, that sounds like a good idea to me
 739 2012-08-23 21:39:44 <Luke-Jr> worst case we revert before final
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 742 2012-08-23 21:40:28 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: its the default for QT too.
 743 2012-08-23 21:40:42 <Diapolo> Well I was using 1.5 a few weeks now and switched to 1.51 2 days ago ... biggest change is we need to build and link to Chrono, as they use it in one of the oder 4 libs we use AFAIK.
 744 2012-08-23 21:41:08 <Diapolo> gmaxwell: Was that for my IP6 question on Github ^^?
 745 2012-08-23 21:41:12 <Diapolo> +v
 746 2012-08-23 21:41:19 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: yes.
 747 2012-08-23 21:41:22 <Diapolo> thanks
 748 2012-08-23 21:42:01 <Luke-Jr> Diapolo: but 1.50 works without Chrono?
 749 2012-08-23 21:42:58 gavinandresen has joined
 750 2012-08-23 21:43:16 <Diapolo> Luke-Jr: we need it with Qt
 751 2012-08-23 21:43:28 <Diapolo> dunno about bitcoind
 752 2012-08-23 21:43:57 Cablesaurus has joined
 753 2012-08-23 21:44:18 <Diapolo> I'll quote laanwj "boost::thread uses boost::chrono::system_clock::now()"
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 761 2012-08-23 21:57:25 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: why do you have to troll? nobody was ignoring anyone else, I was just waiting on you to decide the shed painting
 762 2012-08-23 21:58:13 ByronJohnson has joined
 763 2012-08-23 21:58:47 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: perhaps we're suffering a little from the narrow bandness of text-in-pull-requests; I thought luke was being completely cooperative there. And in totally in "someone else decide" mode.
 764 2012-08-23 21:59:18 <gavinandresen> I don't appreciate the pattern of "developers disagree with me, so I'll poll the audience"
 765 2012-08-23 22:00:00 <gavinandresen> it wastes everybody's time, generates bad feelings, etc.
 766 2012-08-23 22:00:12 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: that was another pullreq entirely, and that's the reasonable way to demonstrate people other than me care about it
 767 2012-08-23 22:01:11 <Luke-Jr> removing features for no reason is a waste of time for everyone. that topic should have never even come up.
 768 2012-08-23 22:01:25 <gmaxwell> Thats on that FIRST CLASS MESSAGING thing. Which is a great big meh.
 769 2012-08-23 22:01:44 <slush> ok, I have compiled latest git sources, binary is running, I see many addresses in debug.log, but I'm unable to connect to any of this node
 770 2012-08-23 22:01:55 <slush> "connection timeout"
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 772 2012-08-23 22:02:22 <Luke-Jr> sipa seemed to think I was the only one who used or wanted first-class messaging. the poll clearly demonstrates that not only is that not true, but *a majority* of people prefer it.
 773 2012-08-23 22:02:31 <gmaxwell> slush: presumably if you didn't delete your addr/peers.dat it's going to waste time trying to connect to old testnet nodes.
 774 2012-08-23 22:02:54 <slush> gmaxwell: it created testnet3 directory so it is completely separated, isn't it?
 775 2012-08-23 22:02:59 <Eliel> might someone point me to what this conversation is about? I can't seem to figure it out.
 776 2012-08-23 22:03:10 <Diapolo> IMHO this poll creates pressure and force, which was not needed and is bad practise... and we support(ed) a feature that was not our default. I don't want to waste any more time with that now.
 777 2012-08-23 22:03:12 <gmaxwell> slush: hm. perhaps a point.
 778 2012-08-23 22:03:20 <Diapolo> slush: any proxy active?
 779 2012-08-23 22:03:26 <slush> no
 780 2012-08-23 22:03:36 <slush> testnet2 and live net works nicely
 781 2012-08-23 22:03:45 <slush> (v0.6)
 782 2012-08-23 22:04:24 <Diapolo> seems there are currently no IPv6 node, what network do you have?
 783 2012-08-23 22:04:24 <gmaxwell> slush: so you have no connections at all?
 784 2012-08-23 22:04:45 <slush> correct
 785 2012-08-23 22:04:46 <Diapolo> (as I get no connections with -onlynet="IPv6" currently
 786 2012-08-23 22:04:56 <gmaxwell> my public testnet3 node only has 11 inbound.
 787 2012-08-23 22:05:02 <gmaxwell> So it's not full.
 788 2012-08-23 22:05:20 <slush> Diapolo: I'm using standard build
 789 2012-08-23 22:05:25 <Eliel> (never mind, google found it for me)
 790 2012-08-23 22:06:16 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 791 2012-08-23 22:08:07 <Diapolo> slush: Can you try to connect to 88.152.195.6, I have a t3 node running for testing that .
 792 2012-08-23 22:08:07 <sipa> gmaxwell: likely :)
 793 2012-08-23 22:08:35 <Luke-Jr> sipa: does the poll not answer your implied question of whether anyone else uses it?
 794 2012-08-23 22:08:48 <Diapolo> use != want
 795 2012-08-23 22:09:03 <Luke-Jr> Diapolo: that's why there's two different options for want/use
 796 2012-08-23 22:09:12 t7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 797 2012-08-23 22:09:18 <slush> ok, it is working
 798 2012-08-23 22:09:46 <slush> my fault - I was adding "addnode" to testnet3/bitcoin.conf, but as gmaxwell told me, tesnet is using main config file (weird)
 799 2012-08-23 22:10:29 <gmaxwell> The reason it uses the main config... is because how else would it find the testnet setting if you're putting testnet=1 in your config? :)
 800 2012-08-23 22:10:30 <Diapolo> seperate bitcoin.conf for testnet is currently not possible? sounds like an enhancement idea
 801 2012-08-23 22:10:40 <gmaxwell> but I agree, its kinda daft.
 802 2012-08-23 22:10:53 <Diapolo> I pass it via command-line ^^. But your point is valid.
 803 2012-08-23 22:11:06 <slush> I didn't find this problem before, because I was always using same bitcoin.conf on both locations
 804 2012-08-23 22:12:59 Motest003 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 805 2012-08-23 22:12:59 <Eliel> frankly, I think the signatures functionality should be first class by default.
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 808 2012-08-23 22:14:10 <gmaxwell> Eliel: I think we should figure out how the GUI should work for 'advanced features' generally, and include the signing stuff in that.
 809 2012-08-23 22:14:26 <gmaxwell> because adding a tab for every advanted feature just gets us a spaceship console UI.
 810 2012-08-23 22:14:45 <Eliel> I also don't think the signature thing should be classified an advanced feature.
 811 2012-08-23 22:14:50 <slush> gmaxwell: +1
 812 2012-08-23 22:15:13 <gmaxwell> Eliel: I think everything but the core "SEND AND RECIEVE FUNDS" usecase is an 'advanced' feature.
 813 2012-08-23 22:15:40 <gmaxwell> Basically, I'm using a definition of "advanced" which is something along the lines of "not something every user will do".
 814 2012-08-23 22:16:45 <Eliel> I believe the signature thing is something every user will do. Perhaps not nearly as much as sending and receiving but they will.
 815 2012-08-23 22:17:27 <gmaxwell> Eliel: I don't believe _I've_ ever used it except for the eligius namecoin binding, and demonstrating it to people.
 816 2012-08-23 22:17:36 <gmaxwell> (and testing)
 817 2012-08-23 22:17:58 <Eliel> I've used it once myself. To verify a mailing address change for my BFL order.
 818 2012-08-23 22:18:14 da2ce7_d has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 819 2012-08-23 22:18:35 <gavinandresen> A feature you've used once doesn't deserve it's own button or tab in the GUI.
 820 2012-08-23 22:18:46 <gmaxwell> gavin beat me to that.
 821 2012-08-23 22:18:57 <gavinandresen> And GUIs should not be designed by committee.
 822 2012-08-23 22:19:12 <Luke-Jr> I bet most people in #bitcoin-otc use it daily at least
 823 2012-08-23 22:19:23 <Eliel> gavinandresen: the only reason I've used it once is that I haven't paid for too many things in bitcoins yet.
 824 2012-08-23 22:19:25 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: I think the poll is not a bad thing, though it's also not persuasive.
 825 2012-08-23 22:19:45 <gavinandresen> okey dokey.  And I bet the people in #bitcoin-otc are a fraction of a percent of our userbase (as are people active on the forums)
 826 2012-08-23 22:20:11 <gmaxwell> It's useful to know what random form people think, even if we think we know better. And the polls draw attention to features that people might not otherwise know what we have.
 827 2012-08-23 22:21:07 <gmaxwell> In particular, poll results like this should be discounted because _any_ random feature sound good for promotion to the toolbar; so long as you're considering it in isolation.
 828 2012-08-23 22:22:37 <Luke-Jr> IMO the "onus of justification" here should lie with the one(s) who want to remove an existing used feature
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 835 2012-08-23 22:27:46 <gavinandresen> so let me get this straight.  You accuse me of trolling because I complain about how your pig-headed and don't listen and waste our time arguing in pull requests.... and then want to re-argue the pull request in IRC chat?  Maybe it's just me being extra grumpy today, but I'm sorry, I really feel like you're a drag on our collective productivity.
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 839 2012-08-23 22:29:18 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: Your complaint was on a pull request where luke was not being pig-headed as far as _I_ could tell. It confused me.
 840 2012-08-23 22:29:57 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: which pull?  the one where a couple of people said "please do else if { ... } like all the rest of the code" and he ignored them?
 841 2012-08-23 22:30:34 <gavinandresen> ... or the one where he's spending lots of time arguing for a gentoo-specific pet feature?
 842 2012-08-23 22:31:44 da2ce7_d has joined
 843 2012-08-23 22:32:40 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: I completely missed that else-if sidebar, because it happened 10 days ago. The recent discussion was about the status lines; and luke posted he was waiting for you to make a call. They you responded blasting him for arguing.
 844 2012-08-23 22:33:03 <gmaxwell> From a position where I didn't just read the same things you just read it was confusing.
 845 2012-08-23 22:33:38 <gmaxwell> (and for whatever it's worth, Luke just did as you asked and removed the status line.)
 846 2012-08-23 22:33:45 <gavinandresen> ok.  The pattern is "Luke against the world, then Gavin gets to be the bad guy" which has happened repeatedly and which gets under my skin.
 847 2012-08-23 22:34:05 <Eliel> I have a suggestion for this signature feature thing. If support for signature-request uris is added, it would mostly alleviate the need to have the signature tools on the main screen.
 848 2012-08-23 22:34:27 roconnor has joined
 849 2012-08-23 22:34:54 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: and, as I said, I'm extra grumpy today for no particular reason.
 850 2012-08-23 22:35:08 Clipse-b has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 851 2012-08-23 22:35:10 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: We're all entitled to grumpy days.
 852 2012-08-23 22:35:32 <gavinandresen> Eliel: you'll make me grumpier bringing up URI support that we can't seem to get right.....
 853 2012-08-23 22:35:38 <gavinandresen> :-)
 854 2012-08-23 22:35:39 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: Do you own pets?  http://dog-shaming.com/ is worth a laugh
 855 2012-08-23 22:35:44 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: FWIW, I didn't ignore them. I explained why I did it the way I did, and made note to change it during the inevitable rebase.
 856 2012-08-23 22:36:24 <Luke-Jr> (as it was, that code was removed entirely)
 857 2012-08-23 22:39:08 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: also, sorry for my tone and accusation of trolling. I too jumped to conclusions with that. (my day hasn't been the best either)
 858 2012-08-23 22:41:59 <midnightmagic> I'm having a great day! Who wants a hug?
 859 2012-08-23 22:42:05 <midnightmagic> :-D
 860 2012-08-23 22:42:27 <gavinandresen> I want a donut.  But they make me fat.  I should go for a run instead....
 861 2012-08-23 22:43:05 <midnightmagic> oxytocin is better for you than donuts!
 862 2012-08-23 22:43:27 <gavinandresen> oxytocin... so you're saying I should get pregnant...
 863 2012-08-23 22:43:43 <midnightmagic> no, best way to get oxytocin is hug someone.
 864 2012-08-23 22:43:48 <copumpkin> nothing wrong with making a hard link to wallet.dat from somewhere else, right?
 865 2012-08-23 22:43:50 <midnightmagic> (aside from being pregnant and going into labour)
 866 2012-08-23 22:44:09 sirk390 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 867 2012-08-23 22:45:20 <Joric> is there a key that disables block checking while downloading?
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 870 2012-08-23 22:46:35 <gmaxwell> The most interesting thing about the first class messaging pool is the difference between the comments and the poll results.
 871 2012-08-23 22:47:39 <Luke-Jr> copumpkin: I can't think of a reason you'd want to do that, so maybe. :p
 872 2012-08-23 22:48:05 <copumpkin> Luke-Jr: well, I have an automatic backup program that lets me include or exclude dirs, and not individual files (yeah, it sucks)
 873 2012-08-23 22:48:13 <copumpkin> and I don't want to backup the entire bitcoin data dire
 874 2012-08-23 22:48:17 <copumpkin> because it contains blockchain data
 875 2012-08-23 22:48:37 <copumpkin> so I tried making a symlink to wallet.dat in another folder and telling it to back it up, but it backed up the symlink :P
 876 2012-08-23 22:48:41 <copumpkin> which isn't much use
 877 2012-08-23 22:48:58 <gmaxwell> You have gaff basically saying what I'm saying; rjk who is totally confused (doesn't think the default behavior has a verify), istar who points out that the whole signing thing is confusing...
 878 2012-08-23 22:49:04 <Luke-Jr> copumpkin: if the wallet is open, it's not safe to backup without the database dir
 879 2012-08-23 22:49:33 <copumpkin> Luke-Jr: that kind of sucks. I could lose data if my client is open during a backup?
 880 2012-08-23 22:50:02 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: yeah, the confusion over signing in general leads me to think having 1stclassmsg disabled by default is best for 0.7, and convert the confusion into Issues to deal with for 0.8
 881 2012-08-23 22:50:11 <Luke-Jr> copumpkin: unless you backup database/ too
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 883 2012-08-23 22:50:17 <copumpkin> I can back that up too
 884 2012-08-23 22:50:29 <copumpkin> so wallet.dat is another bdb?
 885 2012-08-23 22:50:33 <Luke-Jr> yes
 886 2012-08-23 22:50:37 <copumpkin> seems kind of odd, but okay :)
 887 2012-08-23 22:50:37 <midnightmagic> copumpkin: backupwallet prior to it might be more portable in the event the way we handle db files changes.
 888 2012-08-23 22:50:51 <midnightmagic> :-(
 889 2012-08-23 22:51:01 <copumpkin> how can I tell my client to pregen a crapload of addresses, too?
 890 2012-08-23 22:51:24 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
 891 2012-08-23 22:51:34 <Eliel> copumpkin: it's a bitcoin.conf setting.
 892 2012-08-23 22:51:50 <Eliel> 10000 addresses take a while to generate :)
 893 2012-08-23 22:52:18 <copumpkin> hmm,https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Running_Bitcoin#Bitcoin.conf_Configuration_File
 894 2012-08-23 22:52:23 <copumpkin> says that on Mac OS it should be in the bitcoin dir
 895 2012-08-23 22:52:36 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I think in general we need to figure out how we're going to handle advanced— and potentially confusing— features.  And even if you don't like my "not everyone will use it" criteria, the confusion justifies calling signmessage advanced. :)
 896 2012-08-23 22:52:42 <copumpkin> oh okay
 897 2012-08-23 22:52:45 <copumpkin> not automatically created
 898 2012-08-23 22:52:55 <Eliel> copumpkin: it's that keypool setting
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 901 2012-08-23 22:54:11 <Eliel> copumpkin: but I'd really suggest running a prebackup job that does the "bitcoind backupwallet /backup/wallet.dat"
 902 2012-08-23 22:54:32 <copumpkin> alright, that's probably smarter isn't it
 903 2012-08-23 22:54:37 <copumpkin> I just didn't want to have to do anything timed
 904 2012-08-23 22:54:58 <midnightmagic> copumpkin: bitcoind keypoolrefill will make sure it's topped up, and then -keypool=N via the bitcoind arg.  but retrieving the addresses means pywallet or bitcointools or whatever is supposed to be used these days..
 905 2012-08-23 22:55:03 <Eliel> you do need to set the rpcpassword for that to work though
 906 2012-08-23 22:55:20 <copumpkin> I don't even have bitcoind turned on
 907 2012-08-23 22:55:29 <copumpkin> is there a prerelease 0.7 build for mac OS anywhere?
 908 2012-08-23 22:55:36 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I don't mind a complete GUI overhaul. I just don't think a feature people use should simply be removed because … nothing
 909 2012-08-23 22:55:37 <midnightmagic> oh.  well, you can get used to using -detachdb too
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 911 2012-08-23 22:55:43 <Eliel> copumpkin: backup is already a timed thing... at least if you do it properly.
 912 2012-08-23 22:55:46 <midnightmagic> so when it is off, you can just backup .dat
 913 2012-08-23 22:55:57 <copumpkin> Eliel: I mean my software just backups changed files by listening on the filesystem
 914 2012-08-23 22:56:14 <copumpkin> so this is kind of a different model
 915 2012-08-23 22:56:17 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: Send/Receive alone are definitely more basic than anything else tho
 916 2012-08-23 22:56:26 <Eliel> ah, then you do need a timed job to run backupwallet.
 917 2012-08-23 22:56:34 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: but even then, I think it'd be good to add a message field to send itself ;)
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 919 2012-08-23 22:58:01 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: that would totally get confused as a "send a message with my transaction"
 920 2012-08-23 22:58:05 <copumpkin> so if I pregen 1000 keys in my wallet, and back it up once every few months, is that fairly safe?
 921 2012-08-23 22:58:12 <copumpkin> assuming I don't do a lot of traffic in my wallet
 922 2012-08-23 22:58:32 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: that's what it should do!
 923 2012-08-23 22:58:52 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: hows it going to do that?
 924 2012-08-23 22:58:56 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: email?
 925 2012-08-23 22:59:05 <Luke-Jr> or whatever payment protocol we end up with
 926 2012-08-23 22:59:19 <freewil> lol what? bitcoin client is sending email now?
 927 2012-08-23 22:59:21 <gmaxwell> OKAY, yea, sure after that infrastructure is created then it absolutely should have that.
 928 2012-08-23 22:59:28 <sipa> agree
 929 2012-08-23 22:59:40 <Luke-Jr> well, I didn't expect we were talking about a GUI redesign for 0.7 :
 930 2012-08-23 22:59:41 <Luke-Jr> :p
 931 2012-08-23 22:59:48 <gmaxwell> freewil: its inevitable.
 932 2012-08-23 22:59:51 <gmaxwell> ``Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can.''
 933 2012-08-23 23:00:01 <freewil> haha
 934 2012-08-23 23:00:14 <gmaxwell> More seriously, probably not email— but payment protocol, I agree.
 935 2012-08-23 23:00:39 <gmaxwell> Iff the provided address is a payment protocol compatible one it should ungrey out a message sending area.
 936 2012-08-23 23:00:53 <sipa> ack
 937 2012-08-23 23:01:43 <Eliel> paying is just sending messages anyway :)
 938 2012-08-23 23:01:50 <freewil> gmaxwell, where can i read more about that
 939 2012-08-23 23:01:53 <freewil> is there a BIP or something
 940 2012-08-23 23:02:02 <Eliel> a bit more secure messages, but messages regardless :)
 941 2012-08-23 23:02:12 <sipa> freewil: i wrote a pre-bip proposal once
 942 2012-08-23 23:02:22 <gmaxwell> freewil: payment protocols? sipa wrote out a protocol semispec a while back.
 943 2012-08-23 23:02:27 <freewil> linky?
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 945 2012-08-23 23:03:45 <sipa> https://gist.github.com/1237788
 946 2012-08-23 23:04:35 <freewil> thanks
 947 2012-08-23 23:04:59 <copumpkin> anyone know of any 0.7 bitcoin-qt builds for mac OS?
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 949 2012-08-23 23:07:39 <Luke-Jr> copumpkin: no.
 950 2012-08-23 23:07:57 <copumpkin> aww
 951 2012-08-23 23:08:09 <copumpkin> well, I guess if I'm gonna build my own I can put that coincontrol thing into it too
 952 2012-08-23 23:08:14 * copumpkin rolls up sleeves
 953 2012-08-23 23:08:36 <gavinandresen> copumpkin: I was hoping we'd be able to tag 0.7rc1 today and spin binaries...  but I think it will have to be tomorrow.
 954 2012-08-23 23:09:34 <copumpkin> oh cool, so it's pretty soon
 955 2012-08-23 23:09:39 <copumpkin> I might as well get a build set up anyway
 956 2012-08-23 23:09:50 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: YES. You should.
 957 2012-08-23 23:09:53 <copumpkin> lol
 958 2012-08-23 23:10:19 <gmaxwell> My only OSX system is PPC; don't have enough people working on OSX around here.
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 971 2012-08-23 23:30:23 <pirateat28> gmaxwell: I'm getting deps :)
 972 2012-08-23 23:30:54 pirateat28 is now known as copumpkin
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 975 2012-08-23 23:40:25 <midnightmagic> copumpkin: the current createrawtransaction replaces coincontrol, sort of. it's very nice, I've been building change-less transactions now for a while.
 976 2012-08-23 23:41:42 <copumpkin> hm ok
 977 2012-08-23 23:42:36 <midnightmagic> copumpkin: it's just not *quite* as convenient when sorting through the inputs unfortunately
 978 2012-08-23 23:43:16 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1672  really could use some testing by someone other than me.
 979 2012-08-23 23:43:33 <gmaxwell> In particular it includes the listaddressgroupings from coincontrol.
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 981 2012-08-23 23:44:00 <midnightmagic> ah, okay
 982 2012-08-23 23:44:01 <gmaxwell> I'm a bit unhappy with how that RPC works myself, I started on a rewrite but abandoned it when I concluded I was overdesigning it.
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 984 2012-08-23 23:45:24 <midnightmagic> oh my client already has a "listaddressgroupings"
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 986 2012-08-23 23:45:43 <midnightmagic> luke must be pulling your patch already
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 988 2012-08-23 23:46:22 <Luke-Jr> midnightmagic: why?
 989 2012-08-23 23:46:30 <Luke-Jr> oh
 990 2012-08-23 23:46:32 <sipa> Luke-Jr: i suppose he's using next-test
 991 2012-08-23 23:46:34 <Luke-Jr> into next-test, of course
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 993 2012-08-23 23:46:43 <Luke-Jr> probably outdated I imagine tho
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 997 2012-08-23 23:47:21 <midnightmagic> once i set sane limits on it next-test current version works much more nicely
 998 2012-08-23 23:47:30 <gmaxwell> sane limits?
 999 2012-08-23 23:48:04 <midnightmagic> -maxreceivebuffer=50000 -maxsendbuffer=50000 , that sort of thing.
1000 2012-08-23 23:48:07 <gmaxwell> (my redesign had bunch of flags for controlling how it grouped)
1001 2012-08-23 23:48:19 <sipa> midnightmagic: wow, why such large buffers?
1002 2012-08-23 23:48:25 <sipa> the default is 5000
1003 2012-08-23 23:48:44 <sipa> i typically make then 1500
1004 2012-08-23 23:48:57 <gmaxwell> sipa: I suspect next-test picked up the (bluematt?) anti-flodding patch that makes the buffers tiny.
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1006 2012-08-23 23:49:04 <sipa> ah
1007 2012-08-23 23:49:13 <gmaxwell> and, apparently, that patch is broken.
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1009 2012-08-23 23:49:31 <midnightmagic> sipa: I wasn't sure how big the satoshidice txn I was being screwed by were, and I wanted to guarantee I'd get through to the head block during a recent rebuild.
1010 2012-08-23 23:49:40 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: I boggle that you run next-test on a wallet with real coin in it. :)
1011 2012-08-23 23:50:03 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: not very much, just little spurts, it's just a mining wallet.
1012 2012-08-23 23:50:18 <midnightmagic> i lose it, then I lose like.. I dunno couple hundred dollars at worst.
1013 2012-08-23 23:50:45 <sipa> ell, it's certainly a useful test case
1014 2012-08-23 23:50:47 <sipa> w+
1015 2012-08-23 23:52:00 <gmaxwell> yea, I run copies of my real wallets against git... but I don't send from them.
1016 2012-08-23 23:52:28 <midnightmagic> Luke-Jr: don't you run next-test too? :)
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1018 2012-08-23 23:52:45 <Luke-Jr> midnightmagic: yes
1019 2012-08-23 23:53:39 <midnightmagic> what i'd really really love is the direct access to wallet keys en-masse: dumpwallet/importwallet
1020 2012-08-23 23:53:42 <midnightmagic> :-D
1021 2012-08-23 23:54:04 <midnightmagic> there are a couple things in your old patch, sipa, that i don't understand so i haven't manually patched it in yet
1022 2012-08-23 23:54:08 <gmaxwell> There was some fundimental danger in sipa's original implementation.
1023 2012-08-23 23:54:18 <gmaxwell> Though I forget what it was.
1024 2012-08-23 23:54:35 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: and sipa warned me about that too, but i also forget. only that there was an issue that hadn't been solved
1025 2012-08-23 23:55:30 <midnightmagic> i have a dozen or two wallets now and i'm never really convinced that i've spent out all my old coins.
1026 2012-08-23 23:56:11 <copumpkin> building building building
1027 2012-08-23 23:56:16 <copumpkin> all build and no play makes copumpkin a dull boy
1028 2012-08-23 23:57:06 <copumpkin> a watched build never terminates
1029 2012-08-23 23:57:31 <gmaxwell> hm. well one of the dangers was that you can get split transactions.
1030 2012-08-23 23:57:41 <gmaxwell> And we're about to release a 0.7 which exposes everyone to that.