1 2012-08-26 00:00:00 <Mephisto> sorry
  2 2012-08-26 00:00:07 <Luke-Jr> Matt_von_Mises: correct
  3 2012-08-26 00:00:38 <sipa> we *could* switch to a push of headers only, initially
  4 2012-08-26 00:01:00 <Luke-Jr> sipa: that doesn't help really
  5 2012-08-26 00:01:13 <Luke-Jr> you can't do anything with just the headers
  6 2012-08-26 00:01:19 <sipa> you can validate them
  7 2012-08-26 00:01:23 <sipa> and store them in the block tree
  8 2012-08-26 00:01:39 <sipa> the block data follows immediately afterwards in a separate message
  9 2012-08-26 00:01:50 <sipa> and at that time, you know it's good enough to start relaying immediately
 10 2012-08-26 00:02:13 <Matt_von_Mises> sipa: You just receive the data with non-blocking sockets and when you get the data you look for the header before the payload.
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 12 2012-08-26 00:02:25 <Matt_von_Mises> It's the way cbitcoin works. No need to change the messages.
 13 2012-08-26 00:02:35 <Luke-Jr> sipa: ah, so split the block-receiving connection to another thread?
 14 2012-08-26 00:02:53 <Eliel> would also make sense to change the block download into push headers, the answer tx requests for the txs that don't exist in mempool.
 15 2012-08-26 00:03:08 <gmaxwell> sipa: sync transmission means you get head of line blocking— a single tarpit (very slow) peer can block your relaying to fast peers.
 16 2012-08-26 00:03:27 <Eliel> perhaps push headers + merkle tree + coinbase tx
 17 2012-08-26 00:03:37 <gmaxwell> A simple improvement would be to time relays and relay in order of fastest peer first.
 18 2012-08-26 00:03:43 <Luke-Jr> Eliel: that has overhead based on transaction count
 19 2012-08-26 00:04:02 <Eliel> Luke-Jr: ok, just the merkle path for coinbase then?
 20 2012-08-26 00:04:18 <sipa> indeed, that'd reduce bandwidth at the cost of slower full validation
 21 2012-08-26 00:04:20 <Luke-Jr> Eliel: not useful? :P
 22 2012-08-26 00:05:11 <Eliel> Luke-Jr: coinbase tx is the only tx that's guaranteed to be missing from mempool.
 23 2012-08-26 00:05:20 <Eliel> so would make sense to push that too.
 24 2012-08-26 00:05:39 <Luke-Jr> Eliel: the point is to parallelize everything that involves transactions
 25 2012-08-26 00:05:49 <Luke-Jr> so the cost to including them is once again the intended zero
 26 2012-08-26 00:06:10 <Luke-Jr> (transactions in a block, that is)
 27 2012-08-26 00:06:22 <gmaxwell> beyond the block real issues, there is the whole bloating the txout set issue.
 28 2012-08-26 00:07:06 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: but that's much smaller in theory?
 29 2012-08-26 00:07:17 <Eliel> Luke-Jr: well, have the headers and coinbase pushed in separate messages then :P
 30 2012-08-26 00:07:47 <Luke-Jr> IMO SatoshiDice can justify their (ab)use by financing a dev fixing the relay issue :p
 31 2012-08-26 00:08:03 <Matt_von_Mises> So you get the headers, the transaction hashes and the coinbase (or not) and then ask for the transactions separately, if you do not already have them? That would certainly be a better idea.
 32 2012-08-26 00:08:14 <sipa> Luke-Jr: send and receive are already separate threads, no>
 33 2012-08-26 00:08:23 <Luke-Jr> sipa: no
 34 2012-08-26 00:08:45 <Luke-Jr> that's why my block preview patch did nothing in practice
 35 2012-08-26 00:08:59 <sipa> oh
 36 2012-08-26 00:09:15 <sipa> there's a message handler thread that continuously switches between receive and send
 37 2012-08-26 00:09:25 <sipa> shouldn't be hard to split that into two threads?
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 39 2012-08-26 00:09:59 <Luke-Jr> sipa: as gmaxwell mentioned, there's the tarpit risk with that
 40 2012-08-26 00:10:03 <Matt_von_Mises> Mew messages? gettxhashes and txhashes? Something like that. You can use getheaders and headers and then use gettxhashes for each block header?
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 43 2012-08-26 00:12:26 <Luke-Jr> actually, we probably already have the tarpit problem
 44 2012-08-26 00:12:45 <sipa> yes
 45 2012-08-26 00:12:59 <sipa> if the first node to send you a block is slow to upload it to you, you can't do anything
 46 2012-08-26 00:14:13 <Matt_von_Mises> I was going to integrate a timing system into cbitcoin that times nodes so you can rank them based upon speed.
 47 2012-08-26 00:14:22 <Matt_von_Mises> But I skipped over that for now.
 48 2012-08-26 00:16:44 <Matt_von_Mises> If you were downloading from multiple nodes in parrellel you can find abnormally slow ones and stop downloading from them, so you keep the fastest for download.
 49 2012-08-26 00:17:31 <Matt_von_Mises> I'll mention this in bitcointalk.org to hopefully get more discussion on it.
 50 2012-08-26 00:19:16 <sipa> Luke-Jr: well, the trivial solution is multiple receive/send threads
 51 2012-08-26 00:20:04 <Matt_von_Mises> You should only have one network thread for the entire program and then when work needs to be done that would hang the thread, the network thread can create worker threads.
 52 2012-08-26 00:20:07 <sipa> and some logic to prevent trying to download a block from everyone at once
 53 2012-08-26 00:20:37 <sipa> anyway, i think i'm close to adding initial headers-only, actually...
 54 2012-08-26 00:21:21 <sipa> for every block index entry, keep a state variable that defines how far the block got in the verification process
 55 2012-08-26 00:21:59 <sipa> the first stages are only for the header, which must be connected to the block tree before txn can be accepted for it
 56 2012-08-26 00:22:54 <sipa> the only problem is: what to do in case of a post-acceptance failed check (e.g. signature validation being done in a separate thread)
 57 2012-08-26 00:23:14 <Luke-Jr> sipa: same thing we do now, minus the kick/ban stuff
 58 2012-08-26 00:23:48 <sipa> it's a bit more complex, as you need to reorg back
 59 2012-08-26 00:24:28 <sipa> but that shouldn't be a problem, really; i keep block indices ordered by work in a set, so it's easy to find the next best tip
 60 2012-08-26 00:28:27 <gmaxwell> initial headers only would be fantastic because it could allow multiple @#$@ peer fetches.
 61 2012-08-26 00:28:35 <sipa> indeed
 62 2012-08-26 00:29:06 <sipa> not really "initial headers only", as there is no actual "headers only mode"
 63 2012-08-26 00:29:58 <sipa> it's just headers and block data being fetched independently
 64 2012-08-26 00:30:45 <sipa> and you never accept block data that isn't already known to be part of the best chain
 65 2012-08-26 00:31:49 <gmaxwell> Right, I sketched out a particular sequence which I think gives high DOS resistance.  https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/User:Gmaxwell/Reverse_header-fetching_sync
 66 2012-08-26 00:32:52 <helo> where's the testing forum thread?
 67 2012-08-26 00:33:37 <helo> nm
 68 2012-08-26 00:34:57 <sipa> gmaxwell: https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/commit/30ec157606da9bdc56751d73ff1a64ad0fa605d1#L3R1362
 69 2012-08-26 00:36:55 <helo> is http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/w/bitcoind/luke-jr.git/shortlog/refs/tags/next_20120813 still the best thing to test?
 70 2012-08-26 00:37:12 <sipa> depends what you want to test :)
 71 2012-08-26 00:37:34 <Luke-Jr> helo: if you want to test 0.7, rc1 is due any day now; if you want to test a bunch of crap that might or might not be in 0.8, next-test
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 73 2012-08-26 00:38:59 <helo> i have a couple hours to play around; testing either would be fine by me...
 74 2012-08-26 00:39:20 <sipa> helo: you can also test ultraprune if you like
 75 2012-08-26 00:39:43 <helo> yeah, i'll do that
 76 2012-08-26 00:41:54 <sipa> gmaxwell: idea would be: arriving header: { check level 1, find parent, check level 2, store in block tree }, separate thread requests blocks from best non-failed branch in tree, arriving block: { check merkle root; if false, drop and exit; if true { check transactions; if ok, mark level 3 valid, if nok mark block failed }; every time block data is modified, try to connect best chain of all valid-level3 blocks
 77 2012-08-26 00:41:55 <helo> git://github.com/sipa/bitcoin.git ultraprune-dev?
 78 2012-08-26 00:42:03 <sipa> helo: yes, try _dev
 79 2012-08-26 00:42:08 <helo> ahh right
 80 2012-08-26 00:42:34 <sipa> though it's database format is likely to change in the future in incompatible ways still
 81 2012-08-26 00:43:18 <helo> this round of testing brought to you by Mickey's Fine Malt Liquor
 82 2012-08-26 00:43:33 <sipa> :D
 83 2012-08-26 00:44:25 <sipa> oh, despite the name, don't expect any pruning to actually be implemented
 84 2012-08-26 00:44:53 <helo> its ok, i have 80GB free
 85 2012-08-26 00:46:58 <sipa> helo: i just pushed a new version to ultraprune_dev; the former was buggy
 86 2012-08-26 00:48:50 <sipa> also, -loadblock=<old blk0001.dat file> is advised, network will most likely be the bottleneck before the last checkpoint
 87 2012-08-26 00:49:54 <helo> great, thank you
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 90 2012-08-26 00:54:42 <helo> down the road, ultraprune will be the default initial state, transitioning to a full-node as time and resources allow?
 91 2012-08-26 00:55:23 <sipa> ultraprune is just a different validation engine and associated database layout, that permits pruning
 92 2012-08-26 00:55:41 <sipa> as long as nothing is effectively deleted, it's a full node
 93 2012-08-26 00:55:58 <sipa> and even when deleting blocks, it remains a fully validating node
 94 2012-08-26 00:57:02 * sipa sleeps
 95 2012-08-26 00:57:10 <helo> ahh right... i was thinking of the "unspent output tree hash in block" thing
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 98 2012-08-26 00:59:13 <Joric> pruning the blockchain? hows results?
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101 2012-08-26 01:00:02 <helo> littler
102 2012-08-26 01:01:28 <Joric> like, 50%?
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105 2012-08-26 01:04:56 <sipa> helo: yes, it keeps a utxo database next to the block database, and uses that for almost everything
106 2012-08-26 01:05:26 <sipa> except reorgs, rescans, and obviously serving blocks to others
107 2012-08-26 01:06:06 <sipa> Joric: more like up to 15x now
108 2012-08-26 01:06:53 <sipa> Joric: not that 14/15 is pruned, but just keeping the utxo set only requires 200 MB or ak
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111 2012-08-26 01:07:33 <sipa> you need some recent blocks and undo data as well, though
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114 2012-08-26 01:16:38 <Matt_von_Mises> Here I suggested a way in which blocks can be downloaded and relayed in segements: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=103295.0
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116 2012-08-26 01:17:13 <Joric> sipa, how does it work? what about block hashes are they remain the same?
117 2012-08-26 01:20:01 <Luke-Jr> sipa: ping
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123 2012-08-26 01:40:37 <sipa> Joric: blocks remain blocks, nothing changes
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125 2012-08-26 01:40:55 <sipa> Joric: it's just that you don't need the blocks anymore
126 2012-08-26 01:41:05 <sipa> Luke-Jr: yes?
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128 2012-08-26 01:45:15 <sipa> Joric: right now, you have block files, and an index for all blocks, transactions, and transaction spendings
129 2012-08-26 01:45:55 <sipa> Joric: that means the data set you need fast access to is several gigabytes already
130 2012-08-26 01:46:22 <Joric> yeah ok what changed
131 2012-08-26 01:46:42 <sipa> ultraprune only needs block files and an index for all blocks, and additionally just a set of unspent transaction outputs
132 2012-08-26 01:47:19 <sipa> that means the txout data is effectively stored twice, but only the txout set is necessary for validation
133 2012-08-26 01:47:32 <sipa> and this is so small it is easily kept in cache
134 2012-08-26 01:48:47 <sipa> and if you don't care about the ability to serve, reorg or rescan, you can just delete the block files
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139 2012-08-26 01:59:04 <Luke-Jr> sipa: beyond the documented split, 7f3ccb5 also replaces a boost::interprocess::interprocess_mutex with a CCriticalSection - what was the purpose of that?
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160 2012-08-26 02:43:04 <jaxtr> broooo
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175 2012-08-26 03:24:54 <gmaxwell> Gah Gavin! Tho shall not make the txout bloat problem worse! (RE: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=103258.msg1132776#msg1132776 )
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293 2012-08-26 09:44:24 <wumpus> <Luke-Jr> sipa: beyond the documented split, 7f3ccb5 also replaces a boost::interprocess::interprocess_mutex with a CCriticalSection - what was the purpose of that?  <- because an interproces mutex was a terribly inefficient thing to use within a process
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295 2012-08-26 09:44:38 <wumpus> especially on mac it resulted in busy loops
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297 2012-08-26 09:45:22 <Guest58083> hi any one pls help me how to connect bit coin API through Vb
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333 2012-08-26 11:55:34 <sipa> Luke-Jr: that ppmutexOpenSSL? because it was duplication
334 2012-08-26 11:55:56 <sipa> wumpus, Luke-Jr: the change from interprocess thread locks was done later
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475 2012-08-26 18:30:24 <Luke-Jr> sipa: what duplication? :o
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488 2012-08-26 18:47:03 <sipa> Luke-Jr: now there is one mechanism for lockin, easily changable with another implementation
489 2012-08-26 18:47:20 <sipa> and it's used for everything
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544 2012-08-26 21:03:18 <Luke-Jr> hrm, how was height-in-coinbase tested? :x
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548 2012-08-26 21:11:31 <Luke-Jr> hmm, it seems like DoSing nodes relaying block-height-not-in-coinbase is a bad idea until a higher criteria at least
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553 2012-08-26 21:20:32 <Luke-Jr> forrestv: ping
554 2012-08-26 21:20:56 <forrestv> pong
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556 2012-08-26 21:21:24 <Luke-Jr> How should getmemorypool behave (in backports)? Simply refuse to work when version==1 becomes invalid (95%), or start adding "height" at 75%?
557 2012-08-26 21:22:13 <forrestv> is bip 0034 being backported?
558 2012-08-26 21:22:36 <Luke-Jr> yes, it's a mandatory protocol change, so creates bugs in clients not implementing it
559 2012-08-26 21:22:43 <forrestv> ah, ok
560 2012-08-26 21:23:08 <forrestv> you can add height without any sort of check..
561 2012-08-26 21:23:17 <gmaxwell> forrestv: have you updated p2pool yet for the 'last minute' change from getmemorypool to getblocktemplate?
562 2012-08-26 21:23:18 <Luke-Jr> forrestv: keep in mind that there is at least a chance Debian stable will stick to 0.6.x
563 2012-08-26 21:23:18 <forrestv> it being there before the 75% point shouldn't hurt anything
564 2012-08-26 21:23:20 <Luke-Jr> true
565 2012-08-26 21:23:25 maaku has joined
566 2012-08-26 21:23:58 <forrestv> gmaxwell, yeah, p2pool works with whatever was in bitcoin git as of two days ago
567 2012-08-26 21:24:06 <gmaxwell> great
568 2012-08-26 21:24:45 <Luke-Jr> forrestv: so I guess the only other concern for GMP backport is, whether/when to express version==2, since it requires block-maker cooperation
569 2012-08-26 21:25:13 <Luke-Jr> which IMO the same question applies to: throw an error, or do it at 75%? :p
570 2012-08-26 21:25:30 <Luke-Jr> (or maybe 95%?)
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573 2012-08-26 21:26:25 <Luke-Jr> another option might be to make a minimal clone called getmemorypool2 to express version==2 support
574 2012-08-26 21:26:29 <forrestv> do most GMP clients simply pass version through to blocks? and do any of them have BIP0034 support?
575 2012-08-26 21:27:18 <Luke-Jr> AFAIK yes and no
576 2012-08-26 21:27:37 <forrestv> yeah, that's definitely wrong behavior, as i discovered with p2pool
577 2012-08-26 21:27:46 <forrestv> clients should use min(version from getblocktemplate, VERSION_I_KNOW_ABOUT) in blocks
578 2012-08-26 21:28:23 <gmaxwell> sipa: in ultraprune, do you have an opinion on storing blocks in different directories? I think it would be useful to be able to store blocks/undo logs on slow spinning media while the UTXO database is on a SSD or in ram.
579 2012-08-26 21:28:59 <forrestv> if they did that.. we could just make getblocktemplate pass the correct version through at all times
580 2012-08-26 21:28:59 <gmaxwell> I'm kinda bummed about blk0002.dat being >650MiB already.
581 2012-08-26 21:29:05 <forrestv> but they don't so we need some kind of workaround
582 2012-08-26 21:29:08 <forrestv> is that correct?
583 2012-08-26 21:29:16 <Luke-Jr> forrestv: getblocktemplate is not being backported.
584 2012-08-26 21:29:23 <forrestv> ah
585 2012-08-26 21:29:45 <gmaxwell> I'm thinking that the BIP34 backport should just disable getmemorypool.
586 2012-08-26 21:30:07 <gmaxwell> If you're running an out of date bitcoin backport on debian stable you're a hazard to the network.
587 2012-08-26 21:30:54 <Luke-Jr> backports aren't out of date or a hazard
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589 2012-08-26 21:31:04 <gmaxwell> they are if they are out of date.
590 2012-08-26 21:31:12 <Luke-Jr> I'm not talking about out of date ones though.
591 2012-08-26 21:31:19 <Luke-Jr> those can't be changed.
592 2012-08-26 21:31:21 <gmaxwell> well, then backport getblocktemplate.
593 2012-08-26 21:31:30 <Luke-Jr> that's a new feature, and breaks compatibility.
594 2012-08-26 21:31:48 <gmaxwell> No miner that will create correct blocks post change works without it.
595 2012-08-26 21:32:00 <Luke-Jr> hmm
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597 2012-08-26 21:33:03 <gmaxwell> I don't think there is anything too controversial about not supporting mining in sufficiently old backports.
598 2012-08-26 21:33:44 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I'm thinking forrestv may want to support distro stable versions for p2pool, otherwise sure
599 2012-08-26 21:33:45 <gmaxwell> (in particular, staying on an old client mostly just harms yourself, but mining on an old one potentially hurts other people)
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601 2012-08-26 21:34:14 <Luke-Jr> we're  not talking about out-of-date-harming, just not-the-latest-features-but-still-maintained..
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603 2012-08-26 21:34:35 <gmaxwell> Considering the performance changes coming up (e.g. changing to ultraprune and leveldb; async block validation, etc), I doubt it.
604 2012-08-26 21:34:48 <sipa> gmaxwell: the block database and utxo database are (almost) totally independent, so they can be separated
605 2012-08-26 21:35:09 <sipa> there are no atomic transactions to both combined
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607 2012-08-26 21:36:37 <gmaxwell> If the filesystem layout is setup right it would be possible to move them simply by symlinking the right subdirectory. That would be handy.
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609 2012-08-26 21:37:06 <sipa> gmaxwell: when we have leveldb, both databases will be a directory each, and nothing outside those directories
610 2012-08-26 21:37:23 <forrestv> Luke-Jr, for me, always inserting the height, and keeping version at 1 until version==1 is invalid, and then setting version to 2 seems best
611 2012-08-26 21:38:07 <sipa> gmaxwell: so i guess that means you can put blocks, the block db, and the utxo db on three different devices if need be
612 2012-08-26 21:38:09 <forrestv> that will prevent anybody from creating invalid version==2 blocks up until version==2 is necessary
613 2012-08-26 21:38:35 <forrestv> and by that point, the p2pool update i'm pushing should be adopted, so blocks will have the height in coinbase
614 2012-08-26 21:38:36 <Luke-Jr> forrestv: what do you think of gmaxwell's proposal? leave getmemorypool as-is, but error when v=1 is dead, and backport BIP22 minimally?
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617 2012-08-26 21:42:32 <forrestv> i don't think it's really necessary.. p2pool, as it is in git, will produce correct BIP 0034 blocks even if only getmemorypool is present (if it's returning version=2)
618 2012-08-26 21:43:18 <forrestv> it requests the block height using "getblock" so the height key isn't even necessary
619 2012-08-26 21:43:41 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: are you ok with forrestv's solution then? <.<
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621 2012-08-26 21:58:37 <Luke-Jr> http://codepad.org/j8fALwsa <-- look ok? gmaxwell forrestv
622 2012-08-26 22:00:32 <forrestv> looks good to me
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641 2012-08-26 23:04:46 <MC-Eeepc> doing about 10,000 blocks per 24 hrs here
642 2012-08-26 23:04:48 <MC-Eeepc> lel
643 2012-08-26 23:05:47 <MC-Eeepc> when did SD start
644 2012-08-26 23:05:54 <MC-Eeepc> i think it was more than 164 days ago
645 2012-08-26 23:06:03 <MC-Eeepc> oh lawdy.......
646 2012-08-26 23:06:27 <MC-Eeepc> less than*
647 2012-08-26 23:08:16 <sipa>  what hardware?
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653 2012-08-26 23:14:24 <MC-Eeepc> intel atom 1.6
654 2012-08-26 23:14:42 <MC-Eeepc> but its not pegged on 100%, and the disk is an SSD
655 2012-08-26 23:15:03 <MC-Eeepc> well its a USB drive
656 2012-08-26 23:15:08 <sipa> ah :)
657 2012-08-26 23:15:20 <sipa> interested in trying my ultraprune branch?
658 2012-08-26 23:15:37 <MC-Eeepc> for windows?
659 2012-08-26 23:15:50 <sipa> you need bitcoind or bitcoin-qt?
660 2012-08-26 23:16:01 <MC-Eeepc> qt
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662 2012-08-26 23:17:27 <gmaxwell> MC-Eeepc: don't call a usb disk a ssd. :)
663 2012-08-26 23:17:55 <MC-Eeepc> i corrected the error lol
664 2012-08-26 23:18:05 <MC-Eeepc> but its not much faster using the actual internal SSD
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667 2012-08-26 23:18:41 <MC-Eeepc> im using a usb drive in order to not rape all my write cycles away on this expensive SSD
668 2012-08-26 23:18:43 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: USB drives are usually NAND, so are SSD
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671 2012-08-26 23:19:16 <sipa> if we're going into pedantic mode, SSD's are usually not disks at all
672 2012-08-26 23:19:26 <Luke-Jr> disk != disc :P
673 2012-08-26 23:20:08 <sipa> anyway
674 2012-08-26 23:20:19 <sipa> MC-Eeepc: what did you benchmark to claim that there is little speed difference?
675 2012-08-26 23:21:24 <MC-Eeepc> i tried to sync the chain to the SSD and gave up after 2 days ish
676 2012-08-26 23:21:39 <MC-Eeepc> so i got this USB drive instead
677 2012-08-26 23:21:51 <MC-Eeepc> its been longer than two days so i suppose there is a difference
678 2012-08-26 23:22:00 <MC-Eeepc> however both are slow
679 2012-08-26 23:22:20 <Luke-Jr> tmpfs is nice
680 2012-08-26 23:23:08 <MC-Eeepc> well i cant see the bottleneck, unless the database ops consist of innumerable tiny little writes
681 2012-08-26 23:23:17 <sipa> they do
682 2012-08-26 23:23:20 <MC-Eeepc> because flash storage is terrible at that
683 2012-08-26 23:23:32 <MC-Eeepc> oh well theres my answer
684 2012-08-26 23:23:51 <midnightmagic> don't use SSD for databases.
685 2012-08-26 23:24:10 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: sure sure. But performance wise almost all usb storage looks more like drum memory from a pdp-11.
686 2012-08-26 23:24:18 <MC-Eeepc> this is an eepc so i have no choice
687 2012-08-26 23:24:26 <midnightmagic> MC-Eeepc: What generation?
688 2012-08-26 23:24:28 <MC-Eeepc> besides SSD is the future
689 2012-08-26 23:24:34 <midnightmagic> MC-Eeepc: No it's not.
690 2012-08-26 23:24:42 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: :P
691 2012-08-26 23:25:00 <Luke-Jr> so let's talk about FSSD or ESSD :P
692 2012-08-26 23:25:03 <sipa> raw storage in spinning disks, with some SSDs in front for caching maybe :)
693 2012-08-26 23:25:04 <Luke-Jr> (Fast/Expensive)
694 2012-08-26 23:25:04 <MC-Eeepc> this is a 901 but with 2gb rams and 70 ish GB SSD
695 2012-08-26 23:25:49 <MC-Eeepc> the SSD is worth more than the rest of the machine but the ebay seller didnt appear to know that lol
696 2012-08-26 23:26:12 <Luke-Jr> or the ebay seller knows the SSD is dead <.<
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698 2012-08-26 23:26:35 <midnightmagic> MC-Eeepc: I run bitcoind on a 701. :)
699 2012-08-26 23:26:37 <MC-Eeepc> well its been trucking for 6 months so
700 2012-08-26 23:26:52 <MC-Eeepc> i think smart reported power on hours of 600 so its not old
701 2012-08-26 23:27:40 <MC-Eeepc> midnightmagic how on earth
702 2012-08-26 23:28:05 <midnightmagic> MC-Eeepc: I jumpstart with a copy of blk*, but it works just fine after that.
703 2012-08-26 23:28:28 <midnightmagic> MC-Eeepc: Oh, external HDD btw.
704 2012-08-26 23:28:35 <midnightmagic> (But it's over USB..)
705 2012-08-26 23:28:41 <MC-Eeepc> oh yeah you can run bitcoin on an average phone for the foreseeable prob, as long as you skip the full sync
706 2012-08-26 23:29:05 <midnightmagic> the 701 is basically useless for a full sync from even a LAN node.
707 2012-08-26 23:30:17 <MC-Eeepc> its a shame because it so obvious that those in africa etc will not be able to participate in bitcoin on thier own volition, but only by trusting some people running full nods in the glorious west
708 2012-08-26 23:30:27 <MC-Eeepc> as if that has worked out for them before
709 2012-08-26 23:31:57 <gmaxwell> MC-Eeepc: how about you test ultraprune and spare us the histronics? :)
710 2012-08-26 23:31:58 <MC-Eeepc> ok then
711 2012-08-26 23:35:39 <gmaxwell> and fwiw, its worth I successfully synced up bitcoin about a month ago on a >10 year old PIII. I just ran it over night. The problem you're hitting is almost certantly a product of usb storage that can only do a few write transations per second.
712 2012-08-26 23:35:59 <MC-Eeepc> most certainly
713 2012-08-26 23:36:04 <gmaxwell> That hardware will probably also have poor write endurance and will fail after a fair bit of use.
714 2012-08-26 23:36:37 <MC-Eeepc> however remember i tried a full sync some months ago on a 1.6 first gen centrino, with a HDD and it took like 24 hrs
715 2012-08-26 23:36:41 <MC-Eeepc> i sent you the log
716 2012-08-26 23:36:52 <MC-Eeepc> and that was BEFORE satoshidice
717 2012-08-26 23:37:32 <gmaxwell> Yes, and we've made it substantially faster in the more recent months; and taking 24 hours to full sync doesn't support your woe-is-the-poor-people-of-africa.
718 2012-08-26 23:37:35 <MC-Eeepc> if this USB drive fails then meh, it was £20 for 32gb
719 2012-08-26 23:37:50 <gmaxwell> MC-Eeepc: hope you'll have good wallet backups. :)
720 2012-08-26 23:38:11 <MC-Eeepc> i dont have any btc on this machine and never will
721 2012-08-26 23:38:22 <MC-Eeepc> i just want to store and serve the full chain
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723 2012-08-26 23:40:22 <gmaxwell> MC-Eeepc: watcha gonna serve it to?
724 2012-08-26 23:40:28 <MC-Eeepc> yeah i said the 24 hours was before the dice nonsense, and also there is a lot of africa that could not have a continuous net connection for 24hrs + anyway
725 2012-08-26 23:40:52 <MC-Eeepc> i will serve it to anyone that wants it
726 2012-08-26 23:41:02 <gmaxwell> MC-Eeepc: you don't have to have a continual net connection though.
727 2012-08-26 23:41:31 <MC-Eeepc> on first sync
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729 2012-08-26 23:43:08 <gmaxwell> MC-Eeepc: you don't have to have a continual net connection on first sync either.
730 2012-08-26 23:43:45 <gmaxwell> MC-Eeepc: if you only care about serviing the chain, perhaps you should just run your whole node in tmpfs.
731 2012-08-26 23:44:17 <MC-Eeepc> 2gb ram here
732 2012-08-26 23:44:32 <gmaxwell> Sure. Add several gigs of swap.
733 2012-08-26 23:44:43 <MC-Eeepc> bitcoin asks for blocks one after another though, how do you not need a constant connection
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735 2012-08-26 23:44:54 <MC-Eeepc> swap is disabled for SSD longevity and speed etc
736 2012-08-26 23:45:15 <gmaxwell> MC-Eeepc: using tmp fs can only _decrease_ the writes you're doing.
737 2012-08-26 23:45:33 <gmaxwell> MC-Eeepc: because it can happily wait until the connectivity comes back to continue.
738 2012-08-26 23:45:51 <MC-Eeepc> yeah but that takes even longer then
739 2012-08-26 23:46:30 <gmaxwell> MC-Eeepc: sure, but how long did it take you to get the computer in the first place?  Seriously... not everything has to be instant gratification.
740 2012-08-26 23:47:11 <MC-Eeepc> it has to be rather close to it if you want people to actually use your shit these days
741 2012-08-26 23:47:50 <MC-Eeepc> comapnies build billion dollar datacenters on every continent to shave off 70ms for a couple tens of millions of people you know
742 2012-08-26 23:48:16 <gmaxwell> Then they can use some SPV client then. You don't get to define the parameters so that there are no solutions and then complain that there are no solutions and cause me to care.
743 2012-08-26 23:50:56 <MC-Eeepc> wat
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