1 2012-09-03 00:06:28 phantomcircuit_ has joined
2 2012-09-03 00:09:27 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
3 2012-09-03 00:10:39 phantomcircuit_ has left ()
4 2012-09-03 00:10:49 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
5 2012-09-03 00:13:06 btctrader22 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
6 2012-09-03 00:16:16 DrNoboto is now known as pythonPolice
7 2012-09-03 00:17:40 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
8 2012-09-03 00:21:24 Maccer has joined
9 2012-09-03 00:25:24 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
10 2012-09-03 00:25:46 Tycale has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11 2012-09-03 00:26:35 Tycale has joined
12 2012-09-03 00:37:51 sgornick has joined
13 2012-09-03 00:38:05 leotreasure has quit (Quit: leotreasure)
14 2012-09-03 00:38:12 RainbowDashh has quit (Quit: Mithay (<HOMENAME>) left IRC. (Quit: Hi, I'm a sleep message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.))
15 2012-09-03 00:38:24 graingert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
16 2012-09-03 00:38:52 pythonPolice is now known as DrNoboto
17 2012-09-03 00:40:29 devrandom has joined
18 2012-09-03 00:44:09 RainbowDashh has joined
19 2012-09-03 00:48:29 RainbowDashh has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
20 2012-09-03 00:53:41 RainbowDashh has joined
21 2012-09-03 01:06:24 RainbowDashh has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22 2012-09-03 01:07:04 nsh has joined
23 2012-09-03 01:07:04 nsh has quit (Changing host)
24 2012-09-03 01:07:04 nsh has joined
25 2012-09-03 01:09:45 RainbowDashh has joined
26 2012-09-03 01:10:28 paraipan has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
27 2012-09-03 01:17:24 RainbowD_ has joined
28 2012-09-03 01:18:35 RainbowDashh has quit (Disconnected by services)
29 2012-09-03 01:18:35 RainbowD_ is now known as RainbowDashh
30 2012-09-03 01:25:04 coingenuity is now known as test
31 2012-09-03 01:25:14 test is now known as coingenuity
32 2012-09-03 01:27:51 Joric has quit ()
33 2012-09-03 01:28:35 one_zero has joined
34 2012-09-03 01:31:06 one_zero has quit (Client Quit)
35 2012-09-03 01:31:20 Obsi has joined
36 2012-09-03 01:31:25 one_zero has joined
37 2012-09-03 01:45:36 rdponticelli_ has joined
38 2012-09-03 01:46:01 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
39 2012-09-03 01:46:05 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
40 2012-09-03 01:47:12 rdponticelli_ is now known as rdponticelli
41 2012-09-03 01:51:47 RainbowDashh has quit (Quit: Mithay (<HOMENAME>) left IRC. (Quit: Hi, I'm a sleep message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.))
42 2012-09-03 02:06:02 darkskiez has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
43 2012-09-03 02:06:10 RainbowDashh has joined
44 2012-09-03 02:09:29 RainbowD_ has joined
45 2012-09-03 02:10:09 RainbowDashh has quit (Disconnected by services)
46 2012-09-03 02:10:09 RainbowD_ is now known as RainbowDashh
47 2012-09-03 02:13:31 papieay_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
48 2012-09-03 02:15:29 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
49 2012-09-03 02:18:15 darkskiez has joined
50 2012-09-03 02:23:08 CodesInChaos has joined
51 2012-09-03 02:26:03 denisx has joined
52 2012-09-03 02:27:23 eslbaer has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
53 2012-09-03 02:29:52 nsh- has joined
54 2012-09-03 02:32:47 nsh has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
55 2012-09-03 02:38:49 fiesh has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
56 2012-09-03 02:39:48 Maged has quit (Disconnected by services)
57 2012-09-03 02:39:55 Maged_ has joined
58 2012-09-03 02:40:12 Maged_ is now known as Maged
59 2012-09-03 02:40:23 eslbaer has joined
60 2012-09-03 02:41:03 fiesh has joined
61 2012-09-03 02:51:42 nsh has joined
62 2012-09-03 02:51:43 RainbowDashh has quit (Quit: Mithay (<HOMENAME>) left IRC. (Quit: Hi, I'm a sleep message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.))
63 2012-09-03 02:52:42 nsh- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
64 2012-09-03 03:06:11 libcoin has joined
65 2012-09-03 03:08:05 Z0rZ0rZ0r__ has joined
66 2012-09-03 03:08:26 denisx_ has joined
67 2012-09-03 03:09:40 B0g4r7_ has joined
68 2012-09-03 03:10:05 denisx has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
69 2012-09-03 03:10:05 denisx_ is now known as denisx
70 2012-09-03 03:11:07 Z0rZ0rZ0r_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
71 2012-09-03 03:11:36 EPiSKiNG- has quit ()
72 2012-09-03 03:14:17 Obsi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
73 2012-09-03 03:37:26 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
74 2012-09-03 03:37:33 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
75 2012-09-03 03:37:35 [7] has joined
76 2012-09-03 03:41:08 copumpkin has joined
77 2012-09-03 03:46:27 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
78 2012-09-03 03:49:11 D34TH has quit (Quit: Leaving)
79 2012-09-03 03:55:20 B0g4r7__ has joined
80 2012-09-03 03:59:15 B0g4r7_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
81 2012-09-03 04:02:55 maaku has joined
82 2012-09-03 04:08:13 leotreasure has joined
83 2012-09-03 04:11:48 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
84 2012-09-03 04:14:23 leotreasure has quit (Quit: leotreasure)
85 2012-09-03 04:20:09 nsh has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
86 2012-09-03 04:33:42 pickett has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
87 2012-09-03 04:33:52 maaku has joined
88 2012-09-03 04:34:18 maaku has quit (Client Quit)
89 2012-09-03 04:35:21 Ernesto_Juarell has joined
90 2012-09-03 04:43:27 minimoose has joined
91 2012-09-03 04:50:11 maaku has joined
92 2012-09-03 04:55:39 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
93 2012-09-03 05:01:53 pickett has joined
94 2012-09-03 05:12:54 maaku has joined
95 2012-09-03 05:15:25 ThomasV has joined
96 2012-09-03 05:16:35 Diablo-D3 has joined
97 2012-09-03 05:18:02 setkeh has joined
98 2012-09-03 05:19:35 ovidiusoft has joined
99 2012-09-03 05:26:00 Raziel_ has joined
100 2012-09-03 05:28:26 RainbowDashh has joined
101 2012-09-03 05:42:48 kreal has joined
102 2012-09-03 05:44:50 zooko has joined
103 2012-09-03 05:55:31 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
104 2012-09-03 06:08:42 RainbowDashh has quit (Quit: davidfg4 said 2 hours, 58 minutes ago in #reddit-mlp: your quit message is really long)
105 2012-09-03 06:08:53 BTCTrader has quit (Quit: BTCTrader)
106 2012-09-03 06:11:45 RainbowDashh has joined
107 2012-09-03 06:22:37 Raziel_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
108 2012-09-03 06:23:00 Raziel_ has joined
109 2012-09-03 06:24:18 libcoin has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
110 2012-09-03 06:36:20 CodesInChaos has joined
111 2012-09-03 06:39:40 zooko has left ("#tahoe-lafs")
112 2012-09-03 06:48:55 EPiSKiNG- has joined
113 2012-09-03 06:54:39 EPiSKiNG- has quit ()
114 2012-09-03 06:56:30 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
115 2012-09-03 07:00:17 libcoin has joined
116 2012-09-03 07:01:59 ThomasV has joined
117 2012-09-03 07:03:08 swills has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
118 2012-09-03 07:06:40 ThomasV has quit (Client Quit)
119 2012-09-03 07:06:53 davout has joined
120 2012-09-03 07:06:54 davout has quit (Changing host)
121 2012-09-03 07:06:54 davout has joined
122 2012-09-03 07:12:58 pickett has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
123 2012-09-03 07:13:24 enquirer has joined
124 2012-09-03 07:13:33 osxorgate has joined
125 2012-09-03 07:17:03 osxorgate has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
126 2012-09-03 07:27:24 PhantomSpark has quit (2!~kvirc@pool-71-251-16-25.nycmny.fios.verizon.net|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
127 2012-09-03 07:27:51 PhantomSpark has joined
128 2012-09-03 07:32:26 Marf has joined
129 2012-09-03 07:32:33 osxorgate has joined
130 2012-09-03 07:41:19 fronti has left ()
131 2012-09-03 07:44:57 Raziel__ has joined
132 2012-09-03 07:47:52 Raziel_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
133 2012-09-03 07:54:06 slush has joined
134 2012-09-03 07:54:38 Raziel__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
135 2012-09-03 07:54:51 Obsi has joined
136 2012-09-03 07:55:26 RazielZ has joined
137 2012-09-03 08:03:11 Arnavion has quit (Quit: ==kimi ni nante okureba ii no==)
138 2012-09-03 08:03:35 Arnavion has joined
139 2012-09-03 08:05:33 killerstorm has joined
140 2012-09-03 08:06:18 Raziel_ has joined
141 2012-09-03 08:07:19 davout has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
142 2012-09-03 08:08:06 <killerstorm> Do I understand it right that creating CTxDB in places which don't get it might cause deadlocks?
143 2012-09-03 08:08:34 <killerstorm> I.e. I created CTxDB txdb("r"); in CWallet method to fetch some information about transaction, and now client hangs.
144 2012-09-03 08:09:02 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
145 2012-09-03 08:11:10 Raziel_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
146 2012-09-03 08:11:20 <killerstorm> Is that expected behaviour?
147 2012-09-03 08:11:36 Raziel_ has joined
148 2012-09-03 08:11:42 <killerstorm> It seems to hang somewhere around: REORGANIZE
149 2012-09-03 08:11:44 <killerstorm> REORGANIZE: Disconnect 0 blocks; 000000003d9b4a29995a..000000003d9b4a29995a
150 2012-09-03 08:11:46 <killerstorm> REORGANIZE: Connect 1 blocks; 000000003d9b4a29995a..000000000a05755e41b4
151 2012-09-03 08:26:29 osxorgate has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
152 2012-09-03 08:29:10 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
153 2012-09-03 08:29:20 osxorgate has joined
154 2012-09-03 08:33:26 mmoya has joined
155 2012-09-03 08:43:35 eoss has joined
156 2012-09-03 08:43:36 eoss has quit (Changing host)
157 2012-09-03 08:43:36 eoss has joined
158 2012-09-03 08:47:31 Motest003 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
159 2012-09-03 08:50:12 MC-Eeepc has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
160 2012-09-03 08:52:08 pickett has joined
161 2012-09-03 08:59:40 has_many has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
162 2012-09-03 09:00:52 Obsi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
163 2012-09-03 09:04:00 has_many has joined
164 2012-09-03 09:04:17 slush has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
165 2012-09-03 09:10:02 mmoya has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
166 2012-09-03 09:15:34 killerstorm has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
167 2012-09-03 09:16:01 robbak has joined
168 2012-09-03 09:17:05 <robbak> I'm currently helping get bitcoin 0.6.3 into FreeBSD. Could someone help me by lobbing some 0.6.3 version testnet coins at mfi2Er7T2MBgAJRJmi8aL4BpPodt98t3fu ?
169 2012-09-03 09:18:30 <robbak> Or myuKAcyHpvWhBVoLzW2fUAWS6NuXk67iSb , or both. This one is running on BSD.
170 2012-09-03 09:18:56 slush has joined
171 2012-09-03 09:20:07 mmoya has joined
172 2012-09-03 09:39:32 freewil has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
173 2012-09-03 09:40:18 fluke7350 has joined
174 2012-09-03 09:42:06 <fluke7350> is there any way to force "sendtoaddress" to include a specific input in the wallet ?
175 2012-09-03 09:43:33 <fluke7350> i want to relay unconfirmed coins and this way i would be able to do it instantly, because it poses no risk to me (if the input does not confirm, the output wont be included in the block too)
176 2012-09-03 09:44:11 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
177 2012-09-03 09:49:41 killerstorm has joined
178 2012-09-03 09:50:29 <robbak> I'm currently helping get bitcoin 0.6.3 into FreeBSD. Could someone help me by lobbing some 0.6.3 version testnet coins at mfi2Er7T2MBgAJRJmi8aL4BpPodt98t3fu or myuKAcyHpvWhBVoLzW2fUAWS6NuXk67iSb
179 2012-09-03 09:50:39 <robbak> That latter one is running on BSD.
180 2012-09-03 09:53:14 <robbak> It is also using 50% of each cpu constantly, even when the download is finished. Is that normal? We are patching qtipserver.cpp to apply the OSX fix, that takes it down from 100%
181 2012-09-03 09:53:49 <fluke7350> robbak, i am running my bitcoind on freebsd too
182 2012-09-03 09:54:08 MC-Eeepc has joined
183 2012-09-03 09:54:10 <fluke7350> i guess that cpu usage is while its fetching the blockchain
184 2012-09-03 09:54:19 <fluke7350> it has to verify it
185 2012-09-03 09:54:29 <robbak> This is after it finishes getting the blockchain.
186 2012-09-03 09:54:47 <fluke7350> strange
187 2012-09-03 09:56:00 <fluke7350> 95351 root 7 82 2 507M 448M RUN 264:14 27.98% bitcoind
188 2012-09-03 09:56:03 <fluke7350> but still fetching
189 2012-09-03 09:56:26 davout has joined
190 2012-09-03 09:56:27 davout has quit (Changing host)
191 2012-09-03 09:56:27 davout has joined
192 2012-09-03 09:57:36 <_dr> you can always use a profiler to find out where it spends the cpu time
193 2012-09-03 09:57:37 iocor has joined
194 2012-09-03 09:58:01 <robbak> thanks. afk,sorry
195 2012-09-03 10:08:49 paraipan has joined
196 2012-09-03 10:09:23 eoss has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
197 2012-09-03 10:09:42 MrTiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
198 2012-09-03 10:10:24 MrTiggr has joined
199 2012-09-03 10:10:26 MrTiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
200 2012-09-03 10:11:25 Guest99493 has joined
201 2012-09-03 10:14:06 toffoo has quit ()
202 2012-09-03 10:15:09 osxorgat_ has joined
203 2012-09-03 10:17:26 osxorgate has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
204 2012-09-03 10:19:27 <robbak> Seems like I've found it. A Patch to bitcoin.cpp disabling qtipcserver fixes it. The patch is :
205 2012-09-03 10:19:32 <robbak> --- src/qt/bitcoin.cpp.orig 2012-09-03 19:41:52.000000000 +1000 +++ src/qt/bitcoin.cpp 2012-09-03 19:42:14.000000000 +1000 @@ -134,7 +134,7 @@ #ifndef BITCOIN_QT_TEST int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { -#if !defined(MAC_OSX) && !defined(WIN32) +#if !defined(MAC_OSX) && !defined(WIN32) && !defined(BSD) // TODO: implement qtipcserver.cpp for Mac and Windows // Do this early as we don't want to bother initializing
206 2012-09-03 10:19:59 <robbak> So, just what does qtipserver do?
207 2012-09-03 10:23:16 <sipa> robbak: it's needed for receiving URLs sent to it
208 2012-09-03 10:23:59 Ernesto_Juarell has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
209 2012-09-03 10:29:11 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
210 2012-09-03 10:31:36 drizztbsd has joined
211 2012-09-03 10:33:02 freewil has joined
212 2012-09-03 10:33:46 <sipa> fluke7350: see the raw transaction APIs that were added for 0.7.0
213 2012-09-03 10:38:02 <fluke7350> sipa, i have seen them, but i will look into the code and maybe patch the sendtoaddress
214 2012-09-03 10:38:15 <fluke7350> i just dont want to do my own fee-guessing and other stuff ;)
215 2012-09-03 10:43:58 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
216 2012-09-03 10:44:56 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
217 2012-09-03 10:49:10 nathaniel has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
218 2012-09-03 10:53:58 agath has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
219 2012-09-03 10:59:01 Arnavion has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
220 2012-09-03 11:03:50 theorbtwo has joined
221 2012-09-03 11:04:49 <killerstorm> can somebody send my testnet3 coins to moEaekk95oJrdH6JWb7KYEtJEyksKy7Hs1? thanks. (clinet 0.7)
222 2012-09-03 11:05:24 <killerstorm> I'm trying to implement colored bitcoins :)
223 2012-09-03 11:05:45 <sipa> what are colored bitcoins?
224 2012-09-03 11:06:03 Arnavion has joined
225 2012-09-03 11:07:00 <killerstorm> Basically some bitcoins are declared to represent something else, i.e. asset of some sort.
226 2012-09-03 11:07:24 <sipa> how will you prevent them being mixed with other non-colored ones?
227 2012-09-03 11:08:02 <killerstorm> I.e. I declare that bitcoins spend in tx with a certain hash are "killerstorm's bitcoins" now and bitcoins which can be traced backwards to them have a special meaning.
228 2012-09-03 11:08:07 <killerstorm> i.e. a different exchange rate.
229 2012-09-03 11:08:19 <killerstorm> Separate wallet for each color.
230 2012-09-03 11:09:11 <theorbtwo> Or, possibly, that they are tainted coins, the result of a known illicit transaction, and should be refused / sent back to some configured account.
231 2012-09-03 11:09:12 <killerstorm> Client which is aware of colored bitcoins will send transactions without mixing colors. If person with generic client gets them, he can mix them.
232 2012-09-03 11:09:38 <theorbtwo> (In which case you need to support uncolouring rules as well, so that configured account can then spend them.
233 2012-09-03 11:10:38 <sipa> killerstorm: amiller was thinking about schemes where the script language could be used to enforce such things, afaik
234 2012-09-03 11:11:08 <killerstorm> Tainting has somewhat different semantics, basically taint is contagious, while coloring is anti-contagious.
235 2012-09-03 11:11:40 <sipa> mixing colored coins with others removes the coloring?
236 2012-09-03 11:11:47 <killerstorm> I think so.
237 2012-09-03 11:12:37 <sipa> so it's a bit like bullion coins that have a legal tender face value, but are sold for (a lot) more
238 2012-09-03 11:12:41 <killerstorm> People should be careful not to do that as their rare coins might lose their value.
239 2012-09-03 11:13:28 <killerstorm> Yep.
240 2012-09-03 11:14:22 <killerstorm> Here's a forum thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101197.0
241 2012-09-03 11:15:21 <killerstorm> Potential use cases are coins with exchange rate pegged to something by some company which issues them, representation of company shares, etc.
242 2012-09-03 11:15:30 <sipa> did you read https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Smart_Property ?
243 2012-09-03 11:15:37 <killerstorm> So it might be an alternative to GLBSE/OpenTransactions eventually
244 2012-09-03 11:15:38 Evilmax has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
245 2012-09-03 11:16:32 Evilmax has joined
246 2012-09-03 11:18:10 Maged has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
247 2012-09-03 11:18:41 <killerstorm> Yep I looked it through at some point.
248 2012-09-03 11:18:57 Maged has joined
249 2012-09-03 11:19:31 <killerstorm> If I understand you correctly, there is some overlap, but colored coins is simple, robust, practical solution, while hardcore contract stuff is largely a theoretic one for now.
250 2012-09-03 11:20:58 <amiller> killerstorm, when you say "in tx with a certain hash" do you mean like proof-of-work / vanity address?
251 2012-09-03 11:22:28 <sipa> i think he means just tracking txout
252 2012-09-03 11:23:07 d4de has joined
253 2012-09-03 11:23:08 d4de has quit (Changing host)
254 2012-09-03 11:23:08 d4de has joined
255 2012-09-03 11:23:12 <amiller> okay i see, i misparsed
256 2012-09-03 11:24:27 datagutt has joined
257 2012-09-03 11:25:19 jdnavarro has joined
258 2012-09-03 11:33:23 nathaniel has joined
259 2012-09-03 11:39:05 <MC-Eeepc> quite a lot of spam going on in #bitcoin
260 2012-09-03 11:39:44 diki has joined
261 2012-09-03 11:40:22 <MC-Eeepc> cant freenode do anything
262 2012-09-03 11:41:39 <nathan7> Has anyone contacted an IRCop?
263 2012-09-03 11:42:45 Evilmax has quit ()
264 2012-09-03 11:42:53 <diki> Few days ago I was looking at the bitcoinj source or perhaps a fork where there were files called HashUtils.java,PrivateKey.java,PublicKey.java. But upon looking at the source today, I cannot find them anymore.
265 2012-09-03 11:43:49 <diki> So I thought I might have looked at some fork. Was wondering if anyone knows such a fork of the project.
266 2012-09-03 11:45:13 <MC-Eeepc> well how do i disable PM for myself
267 2012-09-03 11:45:39 <sipa> http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#spambots
268 2012-09-03 11:47:04 ahbritto_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
269 2012-09-03 11:48:02 diki has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
270 2012-09-03 11:48:17 <amiller> killerstorm, i keep looking for a "killer app" that would justify and help focus on making stronger validation scripts
271 2012-09-03 11:48:41 <amiller> so far, for every candidate i've found, there's some way of doing it just using the current rules that at least mostly works
272 2012-09-03 11:48:45 JudgeTheDude has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
273 2012-09-03 11:50:06 MC-Eeepc has quit (Quit: Leaving)
274 2012-09-03 11:50:07 Guest99493 has quit (Changing host)
275 2012-09-03 11:50:07 Guest99493 has joined
276 2012-09-03 11:50:13 <amiller> the simplest solution for any of the 'colored coins' use cases is to self-issue some currency with a 'conservation' rule encoded in the validation script
277 2012-09-03 11:50:41 Guest99493 is now known as MrTiggr
278 2012-09-03 11:51:00 diki has joined
279 2012-09-03 11:51:03 MC1984 has joined
280 2012-09-03 11:53:15 <killerstorm> what do you mean by stronger validation scripts?
281 2012-09-03 11:54:11 ThomasV has joined
282 2012-09-03 11:54:35 <sipa> he's talking about a hypothetical successor to bitcoin in which scripts are more powerful
283 2012-09-03 11:54:51 agath has joined
284 2012-09-03 11:55:36 <amiller> it's a lot more complicated to try to add new layers of rules, that are supposed to work even though the miners don't treat the transactions any differently
285 2012-09-03 11:55:55 kreal has quit ()
286 2012-09-03 11:56:31 <amiller> "we take each of these transaction and crawl the block chain to see if this transaction was generated from the genesis transaction." this is the colored coins wiki i think http://yoniassia.com/bitcoin-2-x-or-currency-2-x-initial-specs/
287 2012-09-03 11:56:56 <amiller> as described, that's very inefficient
288 2012-09-03 11:57:25 testnode9 has joined
289 2012-09-03 11:57:44 <sipa> well obviously you implement it by adding a color flag to the utxo set database
290 2012-09-03 11:59:18 <amiller> i think it wouldn't be enough just to add an extra index
291 2012-09-03 11:59:31 <amiller> because you'd also have to make that index exclusive
292 2012-09-03 11:59:47 <sipa> hmm?
293 2012-09-03 12:00:06 <sipa> killerstorm: what if a mix a red coin with a blue coin?
294 2012-09-03 12:00:33 <sipa> do i get a purple coin, or a non-colored coin, or a blue coin, or a red coin?
295 2012-09-03 12:01:11 <amiller> (i misinterpreted you again, disregard those lines containing 'index')
296 2012-09-03 12:01:52 darkee has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
297 2012-09-03 12:01:52 guruvan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
298 2012-09-03 12:01:52 <killerstorm> haha good question. I assume that coins of mixed heritage are same as non-colored, ordinary coins.
299 2012-09-03 12:01:52 devrandom has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
300 2012-09-03 12:01:52 bitcoinz has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
301 2012-09-03 12:01:52 random_cat_ has quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
302 2012-09-03 12:01:53 guruvan- is now known as guruvan
303 2012-09-03 12:02:10 <amiller> sipa, only people who are 'full red nodes' and/or 'full blue nodes' will have color flags in their database
304 2012-09-03 12:02:48 <killerstorm> I implemented it as a meta-info in TxDB
305 2012-09-03 12:02:58 <killerstorm> basically an extra index.
306 2012-09-03 12:03:21 <sipa> TxDB will soon be gone, however :)
307 2012-09-03 12:03:58 <killerstorm> wow
308 2012-09-03 12:04:01 <killerstorm> what replaces it?
309 2012-09-03 12:04:14 ivan` has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
310 2012-09-03 12:04:18 BurtyB is now known as BurtyBB
311 2012-09-03 12:04:28 darkee has joined
312 2012-09-03 12:05:41 <sipa> in my current branch, CChainDB and CCoinsDB, but that may still change
313 2012-09-03 12:05:47 diki has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
314 2012-09-03 12:06:46 ivan` has joined
315 2012-09-03 12:07:15 nsh has joined
316 2012-09-03 12:07:16 nsh has quit (Changing host)
317 2012-09-03 12:07:16 nsh has joined
318 2012-09-03 12:10:13 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
319 2012-09-03 12:10:21 someone42 has left ()
320 2012-09-03 12:10:42 someone42 has joined
321 2012-09-03 12:13:19 <amiller> killerstorm, one sad thing about colored coins is that you can't arrange for an atomic-transaction that exchanges some blue coins for some red coins
322 2012-09-03 12:14:04 diki has joined
323 2012-09-03 12:14:07 <amiller> you could easily do that with actual custom validation rules
324 2012-09-03 12:14:21 <killerstorm> there is a solution through contracts. E.g. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_5:_Trading_across_chains
325 2012-09-03 12:14:22 <sipa> you could have a rule that a transaction with identical input and output values in txin and txout, retains colors
326 2012-09-03 12:14:29 <killerstorm> Although maybe there is an easier one within one chain.
327 2012-09-03 12:14:47 <sipa> killerstorm: except your color coins do not form a separate chain
328 2012-09-03 12:15:26 <killerstorm> sipa: yes I've thought about it too.
329 2012-09-03 12:15:52 rdponticelli has joined
330 2012-09-03 12:15:52 <killerstorm> sipa: it is possible even on separate chain, it's only easier if it is in one chain.
331 2012-09-03 12:16:05 <sipa> ideally, you'd have a marker in each txout that specifies its color
332 2012-09-03 12:16:08 <amiller> sipa, the only problem with that rule is that everyone would need to maintain color flags for all the possible colors
333 2012-09-03 12:16:54 <sipa> and a validation rule that constrains sum(txouts, color_X) <= sum(txins, color_X)
334 2012-09-03 12:17:07 <sipa> amiller: yeah
335 2012-09-03 12:17:19 <sipa> especially when people want colors for their own private purposes
336 2012-09-03 12:17:49 <killerstorm> amiller: why? If I only care about red color I just need to see that 10 red coins go in and 10 red coins go out. I.e. 10 coins which go out are red coins. I don't care about other coins.
337 2012-09-03 12:17:54 <killerstorm> It is messy, but doable.
338 2012-09-03 12:17:56 ahihi2 has quit ()
339 2012-09-03 12:18:47 <killerstorm> It can require a fingerprint in txn amount, i.e. we would transfer 10.0111011 coins to 10.0111011 coins.
340 2012-09-03 12:18:51 <amiller> if 10 red coins go out, but the transaction is invalid, then the issuer would not honor it
341 2012-09-03 12:18:52 random_cat_ has joined
342 2012-09-03 12:19:07 <amiller> even if the transaction is invalid only because of the blue coins not being valid
343 2012-09-03 12:19:17 <edcba> tainted bitcoins ?
344 2012-09-03 12:19:24 <amiller> colored is like anti-tainted
345 2012-09-03 12:20:00 <edcba> anti tainted ???
346 2012-09-03 12:20:03 <amiller> "colored": a mark that washes off easily if you mix with something else "marked" something that sticks for a while "tainted" it's contagious
347 2012-09-03 12:20:33 <edcba> ok
348 2012-09-03 12:21:00 <edcba> is it for privacy ?
349 2012-09-03 12:21:46 <edcba> to avoid spending obvious origin coins ?
350 2012-09-03 12:21:50 <killerstorm> No, it's for issuance of notes which have different value from bitcoins.
351 2012-09-03 12:21:51 <amiller> it's for increased liquidity, because you can create IOU/issuer currencies that are useful in trusting networks
352 2012-09-03 12:31:02 tonikt has quit (Quit: Leaving)
353 2012-09-03 12:32:01 Arnavion has quit (Quit: ==kimi ni nante okureba ii no==)
354 2012-09-03 12:32:18 Arnavion has joined
355 2012-09-03 12:32:21 <killerstorm> amiller: speaking of advanced scripts, what do you think about opcode which would return time or blockchain height? (use case is time-dependent scripts)
356 2012-09-03 12:33:37 <sipa> killerstorm: satoshi was strongly against that, because it would allow a transaction which changes from valid to invalid
357 2012-09-03 12:33:55 <sipa> which could cancel an entire tree of transactions derived from iut
358 2012-09-03 12:34:05 <amiller> killerstorm, i'll tell you what quantity i like, is "sum difficulty", or "total work" or w/e you call it
359 2012-09-03 12:34:13 <amiller> ultraprune reports it in its debug logs
360 2012-09-03 12:34:19 <sipa> amiller: so does bitcoin
361 2012-09-03 12:34:23 <amiller> oh.
362 2012-09-03 12:34:43 jdnavarro has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
363 2012-09-03 12:34:44 <sipa> it's used to find the best chain
364 2012-09-03 12:35:13 <sipa> but in satoshi's model, transactions could deliberately not observe any blockchain state
365 2012-09-03 12:35:23 <sipa> as they sometimes need to be moved in the chain
366 2012-09-03 12:35:27 kreal has joined
367 2012-09-03 12:36:15 denisx has joined
368 2012-09-03 12:36:25 <denisx> re
369 2012-09-03 12:36:27 davout has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
370 2012-09-03 12:37:00 <killerstorm> I've discussed it with Mike Hearn on forum, and I think we came to conclusion that if implemented properly, opcode which returns height is not a problem
371 2012-09-03 12:37:02 <amiller> i don't see the point of that, transaction validity is already dependent on the context of the blockchain because of the utxos
372 2012-09-03 12:37:18 <sipa> it's not
373 2012-09-03 12:37:29 <sipa> transaction validity depends on the previous transactions it refers to
374 2012-09-03 12:37:35 <sipa> in whatever context you're looking at it
375 2012-09-03 12:37:46 <sipa> but that context is not necessarily (just) the blockchain
376 2012-09-03 12:38:13 <sipa> mempool transactions' validity also depends on other mempool transactions in particular
377 2012-09-03 12:38:26 <killerstorm> I really do not care what Satoshi thought about it, I just see no way it 'induces fork' or something.
378 2012-09-03 12:38:51 <sipa> ok, have a script that says BLOCKCHAIN_HEIGHT <= 200000
379 2012-09-03 12:39:01 <sipa> the tx gets propagated
380 2012-09-03 12:39:02 <killerstorm> The only complaint is that nodes cannot identify whether it is a valid txn or not.
381 2012-09-03 12:39:13 <sipa> it is included in mempools, because it looks valid
382 2012-09-03 12:39:19 <sipa> it is mined in block 199999
383 2012-09-03 12:39:30 <sipa> at block 200001 we get a 3-block fork
384 2012-09-03 12:39:44 DutchBrat has joined
385 2012-09-03 12:39:54 <sipa> and suddenly the transaction, which was valid and included, and has potentially many dependent transactions already
386 2012-09-03 12:39:57 <sipa> becomes invalid
387 2012-09-03 12:40:05 <amiller> if there's a 3 block fork, then there could be a double-spend that preempts 3 blocks worth of transactions too
388 2012-09-03 12:40:20 <sipa> of course, but a double spend implies foul play
389 2012-09-03 12:40:22 <killerstorm> Double spend will have exactly these properties.
390 2012-09-03 12:40:25 <sipa> yes, and attacker can do that
391 2012-09-03 12:40:29 <killerstorm> It was valid once, but now it is double-spend.
392 2012-09-03 12:40:53 <amiller> sipa, but it doesn't necessarily indicate whose fault it is
393 2012-09-03 12:41:09 <sipa> but this can lead to transactions becoming invalid without anyone behaving less than ideally
394 2012-09-03 12:41:26 <amiller> only if you wait till near the last minute
395 2012-09-03 12:41:44 <sipa> how do you mean?
396 2012-09-03 12:42:10 mmoya has joined
397 2012-09-03 12:42:48 <killerstorm> If one spends it near expiration date it is essentially a race condition.
398 2012-09-03 12:42:49 <amiller> an example usage would be that i give you a bitcoin that you can spend, or it gets sent back to my address after work=200000megahashes
399 2012-09-03 12:42:57 <amiller> suppose that's in two weeks
400 2012-09-03 12:43:24 <amiller> there's a race condition like killerstorm says if you wait for 2 weeks - a few hours
401 2012-09-03 12:43:38 <sipa> but it's out of your control
402 2012-09-03 12:43:45 <sipa> you don't decide when it gets mined
403 2012-09-03 12:44:04 <sipa> and if there is an expiration date, you inevitably risk it being mined close to it
404 2012-09-03 12:44:28 <amiller> miners refusing or deliberately delaying valid transactions counts as 'foul play'
405 2012-09-03 12:44:36 <killerstorm> Bitcoin security model implies that transactions are not considered a valid payment before they have enough confirmations.
406 2012-09-03 12:44:43 <amiller> also this is a good reason not to prefer receiving bitcoins with expiration dates
407 2012-09-03 12:44:47 <sipa> killerstorm: i disagree completely
408 2012-09-03 12:45:04 <sipa> they are not considered confirmed before enough confirmations
409 2012-09-03 12:45:11 <kjj_> heh. like you have a say in the transactions that come to you
410 2012-09-03 12:45:12 <sipa> which is what you need if you don't trust the sender
411 2012-09-03 12:45:47 <sipa> exactly like doing a deal with someone you don't trust over paypal; you need a few months to be sure he won't try to reverse the transaction
412 2012-09-03 12:45:56 <sipa> but if you trust him, you can spend what you received immediately
413 2012-09-03 12:47:08 <killerstorm> ok, so do we agree that objections to OP_HEIGHT or however it is called are entirely on a meta level?
414 2012-09-03 12:47:12 <amiller> kjj_, you do have a say if you're a merchant, if you make a deal with someone that says "must be paid in non-expiring bitcoin tx" and someone sends you something that expires in an hour, then you just disregard it
415 2012-09-03 12:47:23 <killerstorm> I.e. there is no fundamental reasons to not implement this.
416 2012-09-03 12:47:25 <amiller> OP_WORK :p
417 2012-09-03 12:47:28 <sipa> killerstorm: i have no problem with transactions that have a deadline for remaining in the mempool
418 2012-09-03 12:48:23 <kjj_> amiller: better not to have an option to expire. what's the point?
419 2012-09-03 12:48:46 <killerstorm> The point is that it is possible to implement escrow with timeout.
420 2012-09-03 12:48:52 <kjj_> killerstorm: reorgs happen
421 2012-09-03 12:49:03 <killerstorm> E.g. I send money to escrow, but if escrow dies I get money back in a year, for example.
422 2012-09-03 12:49:06 <sipa> amiller: ok, let's say we have a (stupid, or for whatever reason) merchant who does accept expiring transactions
423 2012-09-03 12:49:15 drazak_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
424 2012-09-03 12:49:21 <sipa> amiller: now that merchant pays me with a non-expiring transaction
425 2012-09-03 12:49:38 t7 has joined
426 2012-09-03 12:49:53 <sipa> if i don't want to accept expiring transactions, i also have to check the entire ancestry of what comes to me
427 2012-09-03 12:49:55 <killerstorm> multisig is fun and games until somebody loses his private keys or just dies.
428 2012-09-03 12:50:03 Marf has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
429 2012-09-03 12:50:04 <amiller> sipa, you probably should be checking the ancestry anyway
430 2012-09-03 12:50:15 <amiller> sipa, if someone sends you a coin that they just received, then it's liable to be double-spent out from under them
431 2012-09-03 12:50:39 kreal has quit ()
432 2012-09-03 12:50:46 <sipa> amiller: sure, but that would imply not just tracking a UTXO set, but tracking an UTXO augmented with expirability information
433 2012-09-03 12:50:59 <killerstorm> sipa: can't you just wait like 10 confirmations? if there is 10-deep reorg, well, it's a problem...
434 2012-09-03 12:51:12 <sipa> killerstorm: why would i want to wait 10 confirmations before spending my money?
435 2012-09-03 12:51:34 <amiller> sipa, that's easy :p
436 2012-09-03 12:51:47 <sipa> amiller: but you can't expect anyone to do it for you
437 2012-09-03 12:51:49 <kjj_> ok, how about we back up a bit. what do you hope to gain by having scripts aware of their position in the blockchain?
438 2012-09-03 12:52:37 <killerstorm> see above: person can get money locked in escrow forever.
439 2012-09-03 12:52:46 <amiller> sipa, how it would work is you would have a 'work-timed event' index in the utxo table
440 2012-09-03 12:53:12 <amiller> when miners publish a block, they execute all the transactions scheduled for that range of work
441 2012-09-03 12:53:19 <sipa> killerstorm: you know about nLockTime ?
442 2012-09-03 12:54:05 <killerstorm> Yes. but I guess there is a reason why no contracts are implemented so far.
443 2012-09-03 12:54:21 <killerstorm> Or are they?
444 2012-09-03 12:55:19 PiZZaMaN2K is now known as away!~PiZZaMaN2@host-72-2-137-170.csinet.net|PiZZaMaN2K
445 2012-09-03 12:55:29 Zarutian has joined
446 2012-09-03 12:55:33 <sipa> if you're going to use that as an argument, i'll ask you what you think will be implemented first: contracts or the more complicated infrastructure that is necessary for a bitcoin-like system which provides time-dependent scripts?
447 2012-09-03 12:55:34 <killerstorm> Well I was wondering about theoretic problems with OP_TIME/OP_WORK/whatever.
448 2012-09-03 12:55:53 PiZZaMaN2K has quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
449 2012-09-03 12:55:54 <killerstorm> I can implement time-dependent scripts in about a hour.
450 2012-09-03 12:56:05 <killerstorm> It's a trivial patch, I think.
451 2012-09-03 12:56:18 <sipa> will you also write the more complicated logic needed to decide whether an incoming payment is trustable?
452 2012-09-03 12:56:37 <sipa> as you need to verify none of its ancestry depends on time-dependant outputs
453 2012-09-03 12:56:40 <killerstorm> No, I just trust payments which have enough confirmations.
454 2012-09-03 12:56:46 drazak_ has joined
455 2012-09-03 12:57:03 <sipa> so you're essentially removing the ability to accept 0-conf payments from trusted sources?
456 2012-09-03 12:57:38 <killerstorm> If source is trusted you can also trust it to not accept a timebomb.
457 2012-09-03 12:58:01 <killerstorm> If reorg comes we just start over.
458 2012-09-03 12:58:13 <sipa> there's a difference between trusting a source not to be malicious, and the source not being stupid
459 2012-09-03 12:58:42 <amiller> sipa, you have the same problem currently
460 2012-09-03 12:58:45 <killerstorm> Ok, I see, these are valid concerns.
461 2012-09-03 12:58:51 <sipa> amiller: how so?
462 2012-09-03 12:59:01 <amiller> if you take a 0-conf payment from someone who you trust not to be malicious, but who might be stupid,
463 2012-09-03 12:59:14 <amiller> then in their stupidity, they may have sent you a coin they just received, and that coin can be double-spent out from under them
464 2012-09-03 12:59:29 <killerstorm> Your trusted source would send you money which later turns out to be a double-spend after reorg.
465 2012-09-03 12:59:30 diki has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
466 2012-09-03 12:59:33 <amiller> which also makes your received coin invalid, even though the stupid mark didn't do anything deliberately wrong
467 2012-09-03 12:59:33 p0s has joined
468 2012-09-03 12:59:58 <sipa> good point
469 2012-09-03 13:00:24 fluke7350 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
470 2012-09-03 13:01:02 <sipa> of course you can limit yourself to only accept 0-conf transactions from a trusted source, whose txins have enough confirmations already (or are known to come from the same source)
471 2012-09-03 13:01:18 Joric has joined
472 2012-09-03 13:01:23 <sipa> but TD knows more about these use cases
473 2012-09-03 13:01:56 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
474 2012-09-03 13:02:21 <killerstorm> Who is TD?
475 2012-09-03 13:02:25 <sipa> Mike Hearn
476 2012-09-03 13:02:40 <sipa> (who wrote the contracts and smart property pages)
477 2012-09-03 13:02:49 <sipa> and BitcoinJ
478 2012-09-03 13:03:19 drazak_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
479 2012-09-03 13:03:35 killerstorm has left ()
480 2012-09-03 13:03:56 <sipa> eh?
481 2012-09-03 13:04:18 jdnavarro has joined
482 2012-09-03 13:05:21 <kjj_> meh. transactions not caring which blocks they end up in is a very good thing. shouldn't be thrown out casually
483 2012-09-03 13:06:31 <amiller> the main thing i would want to be able to do is for the validation rule to condition on the other txins and txouts in the transaction
484 2012-09-03 13:06:52 <amiller> actually that's exactly what you would need to implement the 'mark' 'color' and 'taint' kinds of rules
485 2012-09-03 13:07:04 <sipa> well, there's no problem with transactions being able to observe their inputs
486 2012-09-03 13:07:26 <sipa> their outputs/decendents is more tricky
487 2012-09-03 13:08:01 <amiller> you wouldn't want to accept a bitcoin as payment unless it were unencumbered and had no expiry (or at least a very very long expiry)
488 2012-09-03 13:08:08 <kjj_> do mark, color and tain mean what I think they mean?
489 2012-09-03 13:08:22 <kjj_> er, taint
490 2012-09-03 13:08:35 drazak_ has joined
491 2012-09-03 13:08:47 <sipa> amiller: agree
492 2012-09-03 13:09:04 <sipa> if there's an easy way to verify those properties, there is not really a problem
493 2012-09-03 13:09:58 Arnavion has quit (Changing host)
494 2012-09-03 13:09:58 Arnavion has joined
495 2012-09-03 13:10:43 <amiller> it shouldn't be any harder than the ancestry check that we should probably be doing now anyway
496 2012-09-03 13:11:20 <sipa> we are doing that ancestry check
497 2012-09-03 13:11:26 <sipa> as it is binary: valid or not
498 2012-09-03 13:11:29 <kjj_> please don't bloat the system by checking anything more than the math. plenty of us think that "taint" is a really retarded idea
499 2012-09-03 13:11:44 <sipa> kjj_: it's not about taint
500 2012-09-03 13:12:06 <sipa> (taint is similar implementation-wise, but not what they want to achieve)
501 2012-09-03 13:12:59 khalahan has quit (Quit: Bye)
502 2012-09-03 13:13:10 <amiller> sipa, i mean ancestry as in the number of confirmations 'behind' a 0-conf-but-trusted-source kind of thing
503 2012-09-03 13:13:48 p0s has joined
504 2012-09-03 13:13:56 paul0 has joined
505 2012-09-03 13:13:57 paul0 has quit (Excess Flood)
506 2012-09-03 13:14:09 <sipa> right
507 2012-09-03 13:18:20 libcoin has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
508 2012-09-03 13:21:47 Marf has joined
509 2012-09-03 13:23:33 balrog has left ()
510 2012-09-03 13:26:15 enquirer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
511 2012-09-03 13:27:03 HobGoblin has joined
512 2012-09-03 13:27:27 HobGoblin is now known as Guest97972
513 2012-09-03 13:29:15 UukGoblin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
514 2012-09-03 13:31:32 drizztbsd has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
515 2012-09-03 13:34:52 pooler has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 10.0.5/20120614114310])
516 2012-09-03 13:37:49 balrog has joined
517 2012-09-03 13:41:40 swills has joined
518 2012-09-03 13:41:40 swills has quit (Changing host)
519 2012-09-03 13:41:40 swills has joined
520 2012-09-03 13:49:54 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
521 2012-09-03 13:51:18 aq83 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
522 2012-09-03 13:51:38 Guest97972 is now known as UukGoblin
523 2012-09-03 13:53:36 one_zero has quit ()
524 2012-09-03 13:53:52 D34TH has joined
525 2012-09-03 13:53:52 D34TH has quit (Changing host)
526 2012-09-03 13:53:52 D34TH has joined
527 2012-09-03 13:53:56 nsh- has joined
528 2012-09-03 13:54:34 UukGoblin has quit (Changing host)
529 2012-09-03 13:54:34 UukGoblin has joined
530 2012-09-03 13:55:09 drazak_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
531 2012-09-03 13:55:27 BurtyBB is now known as BurtyB
532 2012-09-03 13:56:26 nsh has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
533 2012-09-03 14:01:28 nsh- is now known as nsh
534 2012-09-03 14:01:36 nsh has quit (Changing host)
535 2012-09-03 14:01:36 nsh has joined
536 2012-09-03 14:03:30 robbak has quit (Quit: Page closed)
537 2012-09-03 14:03:40 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
538 2012-09-03 14:07:21 ahbritto__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
539 2012-09-03 14:08:38 Muis has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
540 2012-09-03 14:12:34 ThomasV has joined
541 2012-09-03 14:13:00 D34TH has quit (Quit: Leaving)
542 2012-09-03 14:13:47 drazak_ has joined
543 2012-09-03 14:15:05 Wack0 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
544 2012-09-03 14:15:47 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
545 2012-09-03 14:16:30 diki has joined
546 2012-09-03 14:17:43 Arnavion has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
547 2012-09-03 14:17:47 Wack0 has joined
548 2012-09-03 14:18:00 Arnavion has joined
549 2012-09-03 14:19:25 tonikt has joined
550 2012-09-03 14:22:57 aq83 has joined
551 2012-09-03 14:23:04 Marf has quit (Quit: Marf)
552 2012-09-03 14:23:26 Marf has joined
553 2012-09-03 14:23:47 mmoya_ has joined
554 2012-09-03 14:23:49 drizztbsd has joined
555 2012-09-03 14:24:02 t7_ has joined
556 2012-09-03 14:24:51 rdponticelli has joined
557 2012-09-03 14:26:13 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
558 2012-09-03 14:27:10 t7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
559 2012-09-03 14:27:22 t7_ is now known as t7
560 2012-09-03 14:34:03 dlb76 has quit (Quit: tired of spam dood)
561 2012-09-03 14:34:08 enquirer has joined
562 2012-09-03 14:34:49 paraipan_ has joined
563 2012-09-03 14:35:37 paraipan has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
564 2012-09-03 14:36:15 enquirer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
565 2012-09-03 14:36:21 enquirer has joined
566 2012-09-03 14:36:43 enquirer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
567 2012-09-03 14:36:55 enquirer has joined
568 2012-09-03 14:36:56 copumpkin has joined
569 2012-09-03 14:38:06 Ken``` has joined
570 2012-09-03 14:43:36 Marf has quit (Quit: Marf)
571 2012-09-03 14:45:07 leotreasure has joined
572 2012-09-03 14:46:25 paul0 has joined
573 2012-09-03 14:46:25 paul0 has quit (Excess Flood)
574 2012-09-03 14:48:49 enquirer has quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
575 2012-09-03 14:51:04 D34TH has joined
576 2012-09-03 14:51:04 D34TH has quit (Changing host)
577 2012-09-03 14:51:05 D34TH has joined
578 2012-09-03 14:51:24 nsh- has joined
579 2012-09-03 14:52:27 nsh has quit (Disconnected by services)
580 2012-09-03 14:52:29 nsh- is now known as nsh
581 2012-09-03 14:52:34 nsh has quit (Changing host)
582 2012-09-03 14:52:34 nsh has joined
583 2012-09-03 14:59:45 theorbtwo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
584 2012-09-03 15:00:24 diki has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
585 2012-09-03 15:02:46 leotreasure has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
586 2012-09-03 15:02:56 swills has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
587 2012-09-03 15:04:06 Muis has joined
588 2012-09-03 15:05:27 diki has joined
589 2012-09-03 15:06:06 paul0 has joined
590 2012-09-03 15:06:07 paul0 has quit (Excess Flood)
591 2012-09-03 15:06:48 agath has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
592 2012-09-03 15:07:36 mmoya_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
593 2012-09-03 15:08:28 paul0 has joined
594 2012-09-03 15:08:29 paul0 has quit (Excess Flood)
595 2012-09-03 15:12:23 leotreasure has joined
596 2012-09-03 15:13:04 BTCTrader has joined
597 2012-09-03 15:13:04 BTCTrader has quit (Changing host)
598 2012-09-03 15:13:04 BTCTrader has joined
599 2012-09-03 15:14:28 gjs278 has joined
600 2012-09-03 15:16:07 theorbtwo has joined
601 2012-09-03 15:20:30 diki has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
602 2012-09-03 15:21:25 mmoya_ has joined
603 2012-09-03 15:21:47 mmoya_ has quit (Client Quit)
604 2012-09-03 15:22:30 libcoin has joined
605 2012-09-03 15:22:42 Turingi has joined
606 2012-09-03 15:22:48 Turingi has quit (Changing host)
607 2012-09-03 15:22:48 Turingi has joined
608 2012-09-03 15:24:48 rdponticelli has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
609 2012-09-03 15:25:32 rdponticelli has joined
610 2012-09-03 15:28:41 usagi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
611 2012-09-03 15:28:55 usagi has joined
612 2012-09-03 15:28:57 theorbtwo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
613 2012-09-03 15:29:07 libcoin1 has joined
614 2012-09-03 15:29:40 libcoin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
615 2012-09-03 15:35:06 davout has joined
616 2012-09-03 15:35:07 davout has quit (Changing host)
617 2012-09-03 15:35:07 davout has joined
618 2012-09-03 15:35:26 pooler has joined
619 2012-09-03 15:35:28 pooler has quit (Changing host)
620 2012-09-03 15:35:28 pooler has joined
621 2012-09-03 15:39:26 theorbtwo has joined
622 2012-09-03 15:40:36 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
623 2012-09-03 15:42:34 pickett has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
624 2012-09-03 15:44:09 phungus has quit (Quit: leaving)
625 2012-09-03 15:44:42 phungus has joined
626 2012-09-03 15:44:56 maqr has joined
627 2012-09-03 15:47:12 egecko has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
628 2012-09-03 15:47:24 Bachfischer has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
629 2012-09-03 15:49:11 Bachfischer has joined
630 2012-09-03 15:51:17 t7 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204])
631 2012-09-03 15:51:56 Bachfischer has left ()
632 2012-09-03 15:52:22 BTCTrader has quit (Quit: BTCTrader)
633 2012-09-03 15:55:36 osxorgat_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
634 2012-09-03 15:57:03 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
635 2012-09-03 15:57:04 agath has joined
636 2012-09-03 15:58:08 Diablo-D3 has joined
637 2012-09-03 15:59:28 B0g4r7__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
638 2012-09-03 16:01:37 Diablo-D3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
639 2012-09-03 16:02:01 Diablo-D3 has joined
640 2012-09-03 16:04:19 ahf has left ()
641 2012-09-03 16:06:30 devrandom has joined
642 2012-09-03 16:08:48 arij has joined
643 2012-09-03 16:08:51 <arij> hello
644 2012-09-03 16:09:13 <arij> there is a project which i need a developer for
645 2012-09-03 16:09:19 <arij> i am paying in btc
646 2012-09-03 16:09:27 <arij> please message me for more details
647 2012-09-03 16:09:38 diki has joined
648 2012-09-03 16:09:55 xorgate has quit (Quit: Take it easy)
649 2012-09-03 16:10:19 xorgate has joined
650 2012-09-03 16:13:49 arij has quit (Quit: Leaving)
651 2012-09-03 16:16:53 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
652 2012-09-03 16:17:05 arij has joined
653 2012-09-03 16:18:37 Maged has quit (Disconnected by services)
654 2012-09-03 16:18:45 Maged_ has joined
655 2012-09-03 16:19:02 Maged_ is now known as Maged
656 2012-09-03 16:22:00 brwyatt has quit (Quit: leaving)
657 2012-09-03 16:23:19 brwyatt has joined
658 2012-09-03 16:28:14 diki has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
659 2012-09-03 16:30:14 molecular has quit (Quit: Leaving)
660 2012-09-03 16:30:18 gjs278 has joined
661 2012-09-03 16:30:25 molecular has joined
662 2012-09-03 16:30:42 diki has joined
663 2012-09-03 16:30:57 khalahan has joined
664 2012-09-03 16:34:45 Evilmax has joined
665 2012-09-03 16:36:23 <arij> any freelance php coders offering their services?
666 2012-09-03 16:36:25 <arij> please pm me
667 2012-09-03 16:40:27 B0g4r7_ has joined
668 2012-09-03 16:40:40 <kjj_> what's your project?
669 2012-09-03 16:43:43 [7 has joined
670 2012-09-03 16:44:11 Clipse has quit (Quit: Clipse)
671 2012-09-03 16:49:51 B0g4r7_ has quit (Quit: B0g4r7_)
672 2012-09-03 16:50:05 Cablesaurus has joined
673 2012-09-03 16:50:37 B0g4r7_ has joined
674 2012-09-03 16:50:47 chrisb__ has joined
675 2012-09-03 16:50:52 maaku has joined
676 2012-09-03 16:54:21 BurtyB is now known as BurtyBB
677 2012-09-03 16:54:24 <epscy> it's like facebook
678 2012-09-03 16:54:30 <epscy> but with bitcoins
679 2012-09-03 16:54:43 <epscy> anyone interested?
680 2012-09-03 16:55:45 chrisb__ has left ("Leaving")
681 2012-09-03 16:55:46 sgornick has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
682 2012-09-03 16:57:04 [7 has quit (Bot]!~7|Bot]@rockbox/developer/TheSeven|Quit: Shutdown initiated by Ctrl+C)
683 2012-09-03 16:57:18 [7 has joined
684 2012-09-03 16:58:22 PiZZaMaN2K has joined
685 2012-09-03 16:58:39 Evilmax has quit ()
686 2012-09-03 17:02:07 Turingi has quit (Quit: Leaving)
687 2012-09-03 17:04:44 [7 has quit (Bot]!~7|Bot]@rockbox/developer/TheSeven|Quit: Shutdown initiated by Ctrl+C)
688 2012-09-03 17:04:58 [7 has joined
689 2012-09-03 17:06:03 kreal has joined
690 2012-09-03 17:06:48 Turingi has joined
691 2012-09-03 17:06:48 Turingi has quit (Changing host)
692 2012-09-03 17:06:48 Turingi has joined
693 2012-09-03 17:06:56 [7 has quit (Bot]!~7|Bot]@rockbox/developer/TheSeven|Client Quit)
694 2012-09-03 17:07:10 [7 has joined
695 2012-09-03 17:08:50 sgornick has joined
696 2012-09-03 17:08:54 [7 has quit (Bot]!~7|Bot]@rockbox/developer/TheSeven|Client Quit)
697 2012-09-03 17:09:10 [7 has joined
698 2012-09-03 17:09:13 [7 has quit (Bot]!~7|Bot]@rockbox/developer/TheSeven|Client Quit)
699 2012-09-03 17:09:58 Turingi has left ()
700 2012-09-03 17:11:01 guruvan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
701 2012-09-03 17:11:32 [7 has joined
702 2012-09-03 17:12:10 OneFixt has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
703 2012-09-03 17:15:00 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
704 2012-09-03 17:15:17 <has_many> so bitcoins post there their cat and baby pictures?
705 2012-09-03 17:16:20 BurtyBB is now known as BurtyB
706 2012-09-03 17:17:12 davout has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
707 2012-09-03 17:17:46 davout has joined
708 2012-09-03 17:17:51 davout has quit (Changing host)
709 2012-09-03 17:17:51 davout has joined
710 2012-09-03 17:18:12 jurov is now known as away!xzbnxup@84.245.71.31|jurov
711 2012-09-03 17:19:58 kreal has quit (Excess Flood)
712 2012-09-03 17:22:04 davout has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
713 2012-09-03 17:22:52 PhantomSpark has quit (2!~kvirc@pool-71-251-16-25.nycmny.fios.verizon.net|Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
714 2012-09-03 17:25:17 MobiusL is now known as Mobius_
715 2012-09-03 17:26:04 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: It's a dud! It's a dud! It's a du...)
716 2012-09-03 17:27:39 Mobius_ is now known as MobiusL
717 2012-09-03 17:28:18 Lexa has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
718 2012-09-03 17:31:06 <MC1984> intredasting question
719 2012-09-03 17:31:39 <MC1984> what is the longest password that could be cracked using the total hashpower expended in the chain so far
720 2012-09-03 17:32:30 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
721 2012-09-03 17:32:57 <MC1984> or if that is retarded, hash collisions or something
722 2012-09-03 17:32:59 tower has quit (Disconnected by services)
723 2012-09-03 17:33:10 <MC1984> inb4 protons and the universe and shit
724 2012-09-03 17:33:11 tower has joined
725 2012-09-03 17:33:16 <amiller> MC1984, that follows directly from the 'total work' value of the chain
726 2012-09-03 17:33:38 <gmaxwell> MC1984: "longest password" — potentially gigabytes long. The length of a password only sets an upper bound on the entropy.
727 2012-09-03 17:33:42 [7 has quit (Bot]!~7|Bot]@rockbox/developer/TheSeven|Quit: Shutdown initiated by Ctrl+C)
728 2012-09-03 17:33:56 [7 has joined
729 2012-09-03 17:34:22 <MC1984> ok longest realistic pw
730 2012-09-03 17:34:52 <sipa> the answer is: a bit less than 71 bits of entropy
731 2012-09-03 17:34:53 <gmaxwell> If you were instead to ask for "lentgh of a uniformly chosen random key" or something you'd have what amiller was answering.
732 2012-09-03 17:34:57 rdponticelli has joined
733 2012-09-03 17:35:07 <gmaxwell> we're up to 71 bits now? impressive!
734 2012-09-03 17:35:14 <sipa> no, close to 70
735 2012-09-03 17:35:19 <sipa> but we're doing double SHA256 :)
736 2012-09-03 17:35:22 <MC1984> gmaxwell i only have the faintest idea what im even asking
737 2012-09-03 17:35:33 <MC1984> sipa is a boss tho, how do you work it out?
738 2012-09-03 17:35:47 <gmaxwell> log2(work number from logs)
739 2012-09-03 17:36:43 <MC1984> it sounds like someone has asked about this before
740 2012-09-03 17:36:45 Apexseals has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
741 2012-09-03 17:36:57 <sipa> MC1984: assuming we have no better information about how people chose their passwords than just assuming every byte string is equally likely, 71 bits of entropy means that something of 9 bytes is potentially already our of reach
742 2012-09-03 17:37:33 <sipa> MC1984: if we limit ourselves to let's say alphanumeric passwords, case sensitive, 71 bits means up to 12 characters
743 2012-09-03 17:37:47 <sipa> if you use a real model for how humans choose passwords: very long
744 2012-09-03 17:38:00 Apexseals has joined
745 2012-09-03 17:38:06 MobiusL has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
746 2012-09-03 17:38:28 <MC1984> yeah humans u suck
747 2012-09-03 17:39:23 <MC1984> wow the password paradigm is fucked isnt it
748 2012-09-03 17:39:29 <MC1984> like within 10 years for sure
749 2012-09-03 17:39:56 <MC1984> yeah you can make strong ones, but people dont
750 2012-09-03 17:40:02 da2ce7_d has joined
751 2012-09-03 17:40:49 <MC1984> whats the next step
752 2012-09-03 17:40:52 da2ce730 has joined
753 2012-09-03 17:41:03 <sipa> i was wrong by the way; the total work in the chain is around 2^68.64
754 2012-09-03 17:41:27 <MC1984> yea we wrked this out last night
755 2012-09-03 17:41:42 <sipa> 4 octoquintillion bihashes!
756 2012-09-03 17:41:43 MobiusL has joined
757 2012-09-03 17:41:43 graingert has joined
758 2012-09-03 17:41:48 <sipa> eh
759 2012-09-03 17:41:52 <sipa> 4 hectoquintillion bihashes!
760 2012-09-03 17:42:10 <kjj_> exponentials sneak up on you
761 2012-09-03 17:42:33 da2ce713 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
762 2012-09-03 17:42:43 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
763 2012-09-03 17:42:56 <MC1984> whats funny is that that will look like piss in the ocean compared to whats coming
764 2012-09-03 17:43:03 <sipa> Maybe.
765 2012-09-03 17:43:29 OneFixt has joined
766 2012-09-03 17:43:59 <MC1984> whats the projection for when bfl get off thier asses
767 2012-09-03 17:44:06 <MC1984> 200thash?
768 2012-09-03 17:44:07 paraipan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
769 2012-09-03 17:45:24 paraipan_ has joined
770 2012-09-03 17:45:24 <sipa> at 200 Thash/s, it would take 26 days to do as much work as the entire chain did up to now
771 2012-09-03 17:45:38 eslbaer has quit (Quit: bye.)
772 2012-09-03 17:46:08 <kjj_> the fun part is that it just adds 1 bit. and the next bit will take two more months
773 2012-09-03 17:46:38 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
774 2012-09-03 17:46:42 <sipa> that's certainly true, but i fail to see the humor :)
775 2012-09-03 17:47:25 BurtyB has left ("Leaving")
776 2012-09-03 17:48:54 testnode9 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
777 2012-09-03 17:49:08 <kjj_> the easy bits are done.
778 2012-09-03 17:49:08 testnode9 has joined
779 2012-09-03 17:50:31 tower has joined
780 2012-09-03 17:52:29 TD has joined
781 2012-09-03 17:53:07 Evilmax has joined
782 2012-09-03 17:55:08 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
783 2012-09-03 17:57:42 MC1984 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
784 2012-09-03 17:58:39 <TD> is anyone doing anything about the pirate spam?
785 2012-09-03 17:58:48 <jgarzik> ?
786 2012-09-03 17:59:11 <sipa> people in #bitcoin and #bitcoin-otc are being spammed in PM by some goatser
787 2012-09-03 17:59:27 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
788 2012-09-03 17:59:43 <Evilmax> i too
789 2012-09-03 17:59:47 <Evilmax> yes
790 2012-09-03 17:59:52 <Evilmax> me too
791 2012-09-03 18:00:16 <sipa> quick solution: /umode +R
792 2012-09-03 18:00:25 <sipa> (block PM from unregistered nicks)
793 2012-09-03 18:00:38 <Evilmax> /mode yournick +R
794 2012-09-03 18:00:44 <Evilmax> i have solved
795 2012-09-03 18:00:45 <TD> ah ha
796 2012-09-03 18:00:53 <TD> or just /part #bitcoin
797 2012-09-03 18:01:54 MC1984 has joined
798 2012-09-03 18:02:12 tower has joined
799 2012-09-03 18:02:22 <jgarzik> yeah, /mode yournick +R is the solution for me... they are appearing on all different IP addresses, so you cannot even ban the IP address :/
800 2012-09-03 18:03:15 [7 has quit (Bot]!~7|Bot]@rockbox/developer/TheSeven|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
801 2012-09-03 18:03:41 TheSeven has joined
802 2012-09-03 18:03:41 <sipa> i've seen people talk about it in #freenode, so i suppose at least some are aware of the problem
803 2012-09-03 18:03:47 theorbtwo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
804 2012-09-03 18:04:00 Obsi has joined
805 2012-09-03 18:04:40 xorgate has quit (Quit: Take it easy)
806 2012-09-03 18:05:24 Maccer has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
807 2012-09-03 18:05:54 CodeInChaos has joined
808 2012-09-03 18:06:16 d4de has joined
809 2012-09-03 18:06:17 d4de has quit (Changing host)
810 2012-09-03 18:06:17 d4de has joined
811 2012-09-03 18:06:33 nsh has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
812 2012-09-03 18:06:39 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
813 2012-09-03 18:06:44 <MC1984> problem is he got like 40btc on the first address he put up
814 2012-09-03 18:06:59 <sipa> seriously?
815 2012-09-03 18:07:02 <MC1984> or maybe he was a dumbass and used a previous address and thats why he then changed it
816 2012-09-03 18:07:49 libcoin1 has left ()
817 2012-09-03 18:07:54 <MC1984> s just some skid
818 2012-09-03 18:07:56 nsh has joined
819 2012-09-03 18:09:06 [7] is now known as [7|B0T]
820 2012-09-03 18:09:11 [7 is now known as B0T]!~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven|[7]
821 2012-09-03 18:09:19 Zarutian_ has joined
822 2012-09-03 18:10:14 [7 has joined
823 2012-09-03 18:10:17 [7 has quit (B0t]!~7|B0t]@rockbox/developer/TheSeven|Client Quit)
824 2012-09-03 18:10:31 [7 has joined
825 2012-09-03 18:10:59 nsh has quit (Changing host)
826 2012-09-03 18:10:59 nsh has joined
827 2012-09-03 18:12:32 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
828 2012-09-03 18:12:32 DutchBrat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
829 2012-09-03 18:12:32 Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
830 2012-09-03 18:12:32 Fnar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
831 2012-09-03 18:12:32 TheSeven has quit (Quit: Shutdown initiated by Ctrl+C)
832 2012-09-03 18:12:33 MrTiggr has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
833 2012-09-03 18:12:33 Zarutian_ is now known as Zarutian
834 2012-09-03 18:12:42 diki has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
835 2012-09-03 18:12:56 Tiggr has joined
836 2012-09-03 18:12:57 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
837 2012-09-03 18:13:19 <MC1984> http://blockchain.info/address/12SBihiWqxWRqkdU7zaGSuxhCyvcU6Mg8B this is the original address that was in the spam
838 2012-09-03 18:13:22 Fnar has joined
839 2012-09-03 18:13:26 MrTiggr has joined
840 2012-09-03 18:13:28 MrTiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
841 2012-09-03 18:13:56 MrTiggr has joined
842 2012-09-03 18:13:58 MrTiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
843 2012-09-03 18:14:01 diki has joined
844 2012-09-03 18:14:26 Guest41920 has joined
845 2012-09-03 18:14:28 Guest41920 has quit (Excess Flood)
846 2012-09-03 18:14:55 Optimo has joined
847 2012-09-03 18:14:56 Tiggr has joined
848 2012-09-03 18:14:57 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
849 2012-09-03 18:15:09 <Optimo> is that spammer still on the loose?
850 2012-09-03 18:15:26 Tiggr has joined
851 2012-09-03 18:15:27 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
852 2012-09-03 18:15:43 DutchBrat has joined
853 2012-09-03 18:15:59 Tiggr has joined
854 2012-09-03 18:16:00 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
855 2012-09-03 18:16:22 rdponticelli has joined
856 2012-09-03 18:16:31 <MC1984> http://blockchain.info/address/1GoatSe6pWoeTXugzofi7QUG3SFskFH2yp this is his new vanity one
857 2012-09-03 18:16:48 <Optimo> yeah.. that's why I left a few hours ago lol
858 2012-09-03 18:16:56 Tiggr has joined
859 2012-09-03 18:16:58 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
860 2012-09-03 18:17:06 <smiddi> there are people really paying? wtf
861 2012-09-03 18:17:26 Tiggr has joined
862 2012-09-03 18:17:27 <MC1984> ha he seems to be manually sending between these two in order to make ascii bytes after the decimal like that other hack
863 2012-09-03 18:17:27 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
864 2012-09-03 18:17:34 <MC1984> shit is adorable if not original
865 2012-09-03 18:17:56 Tiggr has joined
866 2012-09-03 18:17:58 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
867 2012-09-03 18:18:26 Tiggr has joined
868 2012-09-03 18:18:27 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
869 2012-09-03 18:18:58 Tiggr has joined
870 2012-09-03 18:18:59 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
871 2012-09-03 18:19:17 ThomasV has joined
872 2012-09-03 18:19:31 Tiggr has joined
873 2012-09-03 18:19:33 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
874 2012-09-03 18:19:34 Apexseals has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
875 2012-09-03 18:19:40 fpgaminer has quit ()
876 2012-09-03 18:20:00 Tiggr has joined
877 2012-09-03 18:20:02 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
878 2012-09-03 18:20:25 Apexseals has joined
879 2012-09-03 18:20:50 hahuang65 has left ("Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/")
880 2012-09-03 18:20:56 Tiggr has joined
881 2012-09-03 18:20:57 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
882 2012-09-03 18:21:26 Tiggr has joined
883 2012-09-03 18:21:28 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
884 2012-09-03 18:21:47 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: ban that tiggr faggot already
885 2012-09-03 18:21:56 Tiggr has joined
886 2012-09-03 18:21:57 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
887 2012-09-03 18:22:19 <copumpkin> there are nicer ways to put that
888 2012-09-03 18:22:26 Tiggr has joined
889 2012-09-03 18:22:27 <MC1984> oh its not ascii
890 2012-09-03 18:22:28 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
891 2012-09-03 18:22:35 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
892 2012-09-03 18:22:56 Tiggr has joined
893 2012-09-03 18:22:58 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
894 2012-09-03 18:23:41 <MC1984> 46 aa 86 96 b2 9e 55 this is the hex
895 2012-09-03 18:23:55 [7 has quit (B0T]!~7|B0T]@rockbox/developer/TheSeven|Quit: Shutdown initiated by Ctrl+C)
896 2012-09-03 18:23:57 Tiggr has joined
897 2012-09-03 18:23:58 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
898 2012-09-03 18:24:10 [7 has joined
899 2012-09-03 18:24:26 Tiggr has joined
900 2012-09-03 18:24:27 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
901 2012-09-03 18:24:48 toffoo has joined
902 2012-09-03 18:24:56 Tiggr has joined
903 2012-09-03 18:24:58 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
904 2012-09-03 18:25:26 Tiggr has joined
905 2012-09-03 18:25:27 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
906 2012-09-03 18:25:58 Tiggr has joined
907 2012-09-03 18:25:59 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
908 2012-09-03 18:26:00 <jrmithdobbs> Tiggr: fix your shit moron
909 2012-09-03 18:26:31 Tiggr has joined
910 2012-09-03 18:26:32 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
911 2012-09-03 18:26:57 Tiggr has joined
912 2012-09-03 18:26:58 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
913 2012-09-03 18:27:31 Tiggr has joined
914 2012-09-03 18:27:33 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
915 2012-09-03 18:27:48 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
916 2012-09-03 18:27:56 Tiggr has joined
917 2012-09-03 18:27:57 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
918 2012-09-03 18:28:31 Tiggr has joined
919 2012-09-03 18:28:32 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
920 2012-09-03 18:29:00 ahbritto has joined
921 2012-09-03 18:29:26 Tiggr has joined
922 2012-09-03 18:29:27 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
923 2012-09-03 18:29:56 Tiggr has joined
924 2012-09-03 18:29:58 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
925 2012-09-03 18:30:26 Tiggr has joined
926 2012-09-03 18:30:28 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
927 2012-09-03 18:30:56 Tiggr has joined
928 2012-09-03 18:30:57 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
929 2012-09-03 18:31:25 drizztbsd has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
930 2012-09-03 18:31:29 Tiggr has joined
931 2012-09-03 18:31:30 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
932 2012-09-03 18:31:46 theorbtwo has joined
933 2012-09-03 18:32:00 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
934 2012-09-03 18:32:26 Tiggr has joined
935 2012-09-03 18:32:28 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
936 2012-09-03 18:32:40 PiZZaMaN2K is now known as PiZZaMaN2K|away
937 2012-09-03 18:32:56 Tiggr has joined
938 2012-09-03 18:32:58 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
939 2012-09-03 18:33:26 cheako has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
940 2012-09-03 18:33:26 Tiggr has joined
941 2012-09-03 18:33:28 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
942 2012-09-03 18:33:56 Tiggr has joined
943 2012-09-03 18:33:57 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
944 2012-09-03 18:34:29 Tiggr has joined
945 2012-09-03 18:34:30 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
946 2012-09-03 18:34:37 ThomasV_ has joined
947 2012-09-03 18:35:01 Tiggr has joined
948 2012-09-03 18:35:01 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
949 2012-09-03 18:35:23 leotreasure has quit (Quit: leotreasure)
950 2012-09-03 18:35:28 Tiggr has joined
951 2012-09-03 18:35:30 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
952 2012-09-03 18:36:03 ThomasV_ has quit (Client Quit)
953 2012-09-03 18:36:26 Tiggr has joined
954 2012-09-03 18:36:27 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
955 2012-09-03 18:36:56 Tiggr has joined
956 2012-09-03 18:36:57 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
957 2012-09-03 18:37:02 niko has joined
958 2012-09-03 18:37:26 Tiggr has joined
959 2012-09-03 18:37:27 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
960 2012-09-03 18:37:56 Tiggr has joined
961 2012-09-03 18:37:57 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
962 2012-09-03 18:38:26 Tiggr has joined
963 2012-09-03 18:38:28 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
964 2012-09-03 18:39:01 Tiggr has joined
965 2012-09-03 18:39:02 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
966 2012-09-03 18:39:28 Tiggr has joined
967 2012-09-03 18:39:29 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
968 2012-09-03 18:39:59 Tiggr has joined
969 2012-09-03 18:40:00 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
970 2012-09-03 18:40:28 Tiggr has joined
971 2012-09-03 18:40:28 Tiggr has quit (Excess Flood)
972 2012-09-03 18:40:57 molecular has joined
973 2012-09-03 18:41:26 Tiggr has joined
974 2012-09-03 18:42:46 <Karmaon> lol
975 2012-09-03 18:42:52 t7 has joined
976 2012-09-03 18:47:57 [7 has quit (B0T]!~7|B0T]@rockbox/developer/TheSeven|Quit: Shutdown initiated by Ctrl+C)
977 2012-09-03 18:49:41 DutchBrat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
978 2012-09-03 18:49:52 freewil has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
979 2012-09-03 18:50:43 DutchBrat has joined
980 2012-09-03 18:50:51 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
981 2012-09-03 18:51:03 freewil has joined
982 2012-09-03 18:54:51 Snoozingbolt has joined
983 2012-09-03 18:55:11 Snoozingbolt has quit (Client Quit)
984 2012-09-03 18:56:11 davout has joined
985 2012-09-03 18:57:45 graingert has quit (Quit: Leaving)
986 2012-09-03 18:59:25 sirk390 has joined
987 2012-09-03 18:59:29 Snoozingbolt has joined
988 2012-09-03 19:00:15 Snoozingbolt has quit (Client Quit)
989 2012-09-03 19:01:11 paraipan has joined
990 2012-09-03 19:03:48 maaku has joined
991 2012-09-03 19:04:44 paraipan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
992 2012-09-03 19:05:26 Maccer has joined
993 2012-09-03 19:05:59 Muis_ has joined
994 2012-09-03 19:06:46 Snoozingbolt has joined
995 2012-09-03 19:07:59 egecko has joined
996 2012-09-03 19:08:39 Muis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
997 2012-09-03 19:09:16 egecko has quit (Client Quit)
998 2012-09-03 19:11:07 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
999 2012-09-03 19:13:38 davout has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1000 2012-09-03 19:16:21 ivan\ is now known as ivan\\
1001 2012-09-03 19:18:23 diki has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1002 2012-09-03 19:18:58 mal`` has joined
1003 2012-09-03 19:19:42 diki has joined
1004 2012-09-03 19:20:05 Marf has joined
1005 2012-09-03 19:20:23 paraipan has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
1006 2012-09-03 19:21:08 paraipan has joined
1007 2012-09-03 19:21:32 sirk390 has left ()
1008 2012-09-03 19:26:36 iddo has quit (Changing host)
1009 2012-09-03 19:26:36 iddo has joined
1010 2012-09-03 19:29:57 jdnavarro has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1011 2012-09-03 19:30:35 tonikt has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1012 2012-09-03 19:30:47 yosafbridge has joined
1013 2012-09-03 19:39:28 Bwild has quit (Quit: leaving)
1014 2012-09-03 19:42:00 Raccoon has joined
1015 2012-09-03 19:43:08 Bwild has joined
1016 2012-09-03 19:44:31 tucenaber has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1017 2012-09-03 19:44:55 rodgort has joined
1018 2012-09-03 19:45:02 tucenaber has joined
1019 2012-09-03 19:45:02 tucenaber has quit (Changing host)
1020 2012-09-03 19:45:03 tucenaber has joined
1021 2012-09-03 19:45:06 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1022 2012-09-03 19:46:06 balrog has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1023 2012-09-03 19:46:38 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1024 2012-09-03 19:52:37 balrog has joined
1025 2012-09-03 19:56:05 MobiusL has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1026 2012-09-03 19:57:53 MobiusL has joined
1027 2012-09-03 20:02:53 Diapolo has joined
1028 2012-09-03 20:06:41 Apexseals has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1029 2012-09-03 20:06:44 nsh has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1030 2012-09-03 20:06:45 Joric has quit ()
1031 2012-09-03 20:07:52 Apexseals has joined
1032 2012-09-03 20:08:17 bakh has joined
1033 2012-09-03 20:08:50 balrog is now known as [balrog]
1034 2012-09-03 20:09:05 [balrog] is now known as balrog
1035 2012-09-03 20:09:47 nsh has joined
1036 2012-09-03 20:10:04 cheako has joined
1037 2012-09-03 20:11:41 iocor has joined
1038 2012-09-03 20:12:31 bitcoinz has joined
1039 2012-09-03 20:13:30 tucenaber has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1040 2012-09-03 20:13:50 jurov is now known as jurov|away
1041 2012-09-03 20:14:12 <Diapolo> sipa: May I as another network related question ^^?
1042 2012-09-03 20:14:16 <Diapolo> +k
1043 2012-09-03 20:14:59 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
1044 2012-09-03 20:15:53 <Diapolo> sipa: SetProxy() contains an address.IsValid() check, but before that happens there is another !addrProxy.IsValid() check for the initError ... why not just use the return value from SetProxy() instead?
1045 2012-09-03 20:17:50 cheako has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1046 2012-09-03 20:19:03 <sipa> i suppose because it SetProxy can fail for another reason
1047 2012-09-03 20:19:09 <sipa> but i don't really care
1048 2012-09-03 20:20:38 <Diapolo> SetProxy only fails when a wrong SOCKS version is supplied, for which an earlier check is in init :D
1049 2012-09-03 20:21:58 btctrader22 has joined
1050 2012-09-03 20:22:11 Diapolo has left ()
1051 2012-09-03 20:22:59 Diapolo has joined
1052 2012-09-03 20:23:15 <btctrader22> Hi guys
1053 2012-09-03 20:23:40 <btctrader22> Question: is there a list of current implementations of bitcoin sumwhere ?
1054 2012-09-03 20:24:27 cheako has joined
1055 2012-09-03 20:24:31 <sipa> what are you looking for? a library? a node? an implementation of the validation engine?
1056 2012-09-03 20:24:47 balrog is now known as [balrog]
1057 2012-09-03 20:25:41 <sipa> a wallet? a GUI?
1058 2012-09-03 20:25:56 <c_k> btctrader22: http://bitcoin.org/clients.html
1059 2012-09-03 20:26:07 <btctrader22> ideally, some sort of wiki page listing projects that implement some sort of bitcoin related fuctionality that I can go plunder.
1060 2012-09-03 20:26:16 <btctrader22> Preferably in C, can live with C++
1061 2012-09-03 20:26:25 tucenaber has joined
1062 2012-09-03 20:26:25 tucenaber has quit (Changing host)
1063 2012-09-03 20:26:25 tucenaber has joined
1064 2012-09-03 20:26:41 <btctrader22> Something with minimal dependencies would also be nice
1065 2012-09-03 20:27:52 <btctrader22> eh, just found http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Software. sorry for the noise.
1066 2012-09-03 20:32:40 [balrog] is now known as |balrog|
1067 2012-09-03 20:32:45 Evilmax has quit ()
1068 2012-09-03 20:33:08 ErnestoJuarell has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1069 2012-09-03 20:33:33 ErnestoJuarell has joined
1070 2012-09-03 20:33:55 TD has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1071 2012-09-03 20:33:57 Clipse has joined
1072 2012-09-03 20:33:58 Clipse has quit (Changing host)
1073 2012-09-03 20:33:58 Clipse has joined
1074 2012-09-03 20:34:00 <MC1984> swiftcoinwalletinstaller.exe
1075 2012-09-03 20:34:06 <MC1984> ok this is shady as fuck
1076 2012-09-03 20:36:07 ErnestoJuarell has left ()
1077 2012-09-03 20:36:15 TD has joined
1078 2012-09-03 20:36:53 <btctrader22> oOoo. Just found bitcoinjs-lib. yum.
1079 2012-09-03 20:39:43 skeledrew1 has joined
1080 2012-09-03 20:40:06 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1081 2012-09-03 20:42:38 is now known as balrog|!~balrog@unaffiliated/balrog|balrog
1082 2012-09-03 20:44:26 brbot has joined
1083 2012-09-03 20:45:50 brbot has quit (Client Quit)
1084 2012-09-03 20:46:10 brbot has joined
1085 2012-09-03 20:46:38 <MC1984> no really what is this swiftcoin shit
1086 2012-09-03 20:47:31 <btctrader22> s/swiftcoinwalletinstaller/mailmywallettoukraine.exe/
1087 2012-09-03 20:48:28 Diapolo has left ()
1088 2012-09-03 20:48:37 <MC1984> website is cagey as hell
1089 2012-09-03 20:48:39 <MC1984> fuck this shit
1090 2012-09-03 20:58:56 <Eliel> MC1984: If it's a wallet stealer, it's very well camouflaged. The data-file structure it creates is complex enough that you wouldn't think someone would do that just to make a wallet stealer look more credible.
1091 2012-09-03 20:59:02 Dagger2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1092 2012-09-03 20:59:18 <Eliel> my friend checked it out in a virtual machine.
1093 2012-09-03 20:59:54 <MC1984> still shady as shit
1094 2012-09-03 20:59:57 <sipa> TD: benchmarking leveldb+ultraprune :)
1095 2012-09-03 21:00:02 <TD> sweet
1096 2012-09-03 21:00:12 <MC1984> i was on thier site 20 mins and i have no idea what theyre even trying to do
1097 2012-09-03 21:01:59 djinni has joined
1098 2012-09-03 21:02:26 diki has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1099 2012-09-03 21:02:43 <sipa> TD: cpu usage >100% is a nice sign
1100 2012-09-03 21:02:49 Dagger2 has joined
1101 2012-09-03 21:03:03 <TD> i tended to see the second cpu core spend around 80% of its time in iowait
1102 2012-09-03 21:03:14 <sipa> that's expected, i suppose
1103 2012-09-03 21:03:17 <TD> yes
1104 2012-09-03 21:03:43 <sipa> 4 minutes for 161k blocks
1105 2012-09-03 21:04:02 Obsi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1106 2012-09-03 21:04:03 <sipa> but i think the speedup will be mostly at the end
1107 2012-09-03 21:04:28 djinni` has joined
1108 2012-09-03 21:04:39 <MC1984> shit doesnt get real until block 180k
1109 2012-09-03 21:04:46 <sipa> indeed
1110 2012-09-03 21:05:20 <MC1984> im under 1000 blocks now
1111 2012-09-03 21:05:41 <MC1984> its basically choking on every block like they were 11 inch dicks
1112 2012-09-03 21:07:58 diki has joined
1113 2012-09-03 21:08:02 rdponticelli has joined
1114 2012-09-03 21:08:18 <sipa> 7m32s for 185k blocks... good
1115 2012-09-03 21:09:41 <sipa> 9m51s for 193k blocks
1116 2012-09-03 21:10:51 <sipa> and now it's just 100% CPU, to do sig checking
1117 2012-09-03 21:11:53 <MC1984> gogogogogo
1118 2012-09-03 21:13:44 CodesInChaos has joined
1119 2012-09-03 21:16:37 CodeInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1120 2012-09-03 21:17:20 diki has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1121 2012-09-03 21:20:57 bakh has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1122 2012-09-03 21:21:24 Raziel_ is now known as RazielZ
1123 2012-09-03 21:22:47 <sipa> TD: hardly any difference between -dbcache=25 and -dbcache=200
1124 2012-09-03 21:23:14 <TD> i think the primary thing to tweak is bloom filter size
1125 2012-09-03 21:23:29 <TD> more bits == fewer disk seeks to find data but that dataset gets larger, pretty much
1126 2012-09-03 21:23:31 <TD> so less fits into ram
1127 2012-09-03 21:23:38 <TD> the current setting was chosen by me arbitrarily
1128 2012-09-03 21:23:43 <TD> i suspect it can be smaller
1129 2012-09-03 21:23:51 <sipa> well, i suppose the database at this point is so small it's just cached by the OS entirely
1130 2012-09-03 21:24:11 t7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1131 2012-09-03 21:24:11 <sipa> i'd need a low-memory setting to see the effects of a bloom filter vs cache size
1132 2012-09-03 21:31:58 <TD> db size i suspect fluctuates a lot
1133 2012-09-03 21:32:08 <TD> as whenever something is deleted it gets a "deletion marker" inserted into the db
1134 2012-09-03 21:32:16 <TD> the data actually gets removed during compaction
1135 2012-09-03 21:32:29 <TD> but it's good to know that it got faster
1136 2012-09-03 21:32:34 <TD> what sort of times were you seeing at the end with bdb?
1137 2012-09-03 21:33:00 <sipa> i think i remember close to 20 min for what took 7m here
1138 2012-09-03 21:33:19 <sipa> but i'll benchmark again, because other things changed in my code too
1139 2012-09-03 21:33:21 <TD> good
1140 2012-09-03 21:33:24 <TD> ok
1141 2012-09-03 21:33:42 zerogravity has joined
1142 2012-09-03 21:35:18 <sipa> also: database size seems a lot smaller than with bdb
1143 2012-09-03 21:36:37 <sipa> TD: regarding bloom filter size; those bloom filters are also stored on disk, or in memory?
1144 2012-09-03 21:37:02 <gmaxwell> sipa: how big?
1145 2012-09-03 21:37:25 <gmaxwell> (hopefully we'll still get reduction once a tx index is reintroduced then!)
1146 2012-09-03 21:37:40 <TD> in memory
1147 2012-09-03 21:37:53 <TD> http://leveldb.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/index.html
1148 2012-09-03 21:38:02 <sipa> gmaxwell: fluctuation between 99 and 120 MiB
1149 2012-09-03 21:38:03 ovidiusoft has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1150 2012-09-03 21:38:05 <TD> it says
1151 2012-09-03 21:38:07 <TD> "We recommend that applications whose working set does not fit in memory and that do a lot of random reads set a filter policy."
1152 2012-09-03 21:38:24 <TD> you're correct that right now it probably makes no difference, or even makes things worse
1153 2012-09-03 21:38:39 <TD> the real question is what should it be after working set size > most nodes available ram
1154 2012-09-03 21:38:42 <sipa> that may just mean that the filter is on disk, but is assumed to remain in the OS cache or LevelDB cache
1155 2012-09-03 21:39:12 <sipa> gmaxwell: in BDB it was over 160 MiB
1156 2012-09-03 21:39:36 <sipa> (i know there's around 85-90 MB of actual data in there)
1157 2012-09-03 21:40:44 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
1158 2012-09-03 21:40:45 <gribble> 197082
1159 2012-09-03 21:40:48 <TD> yeah i'd have to check the code
1160 2012-09-03 21:40:55 <TD> the filters are stored in sstable blocks
1161 2012-09-03 21:41:00 <TD> and i think those blocks are typically mmapped
1162 2012-09-03 21:41:06 <TD> so yes. it may assume that the OS file cache stores it
1163 2012-09-03 21:41:10 <sipa> right
1164 2012-09-03 21:42:40 <sipa> well, ultraprune's database entries are around 80 bytes on average (of which 32 are key), 10 bits means a 1.5% increase
1165 2012-09-03 21:45:22 <TD> hmm
1166 2012-09-03 21:45:33 <TD> for a 100x reduction in disk seeks when the db gets larger, that may be worth it
1167 2012-09-03 21:45:34 <sipa> ok, final size: 102 MB coindb, 29 MB blockdb
1168 2012-09-03 21:45:59 <sipa> that's MiB, actually
1169 2012-09-03 21:46:40 <sipa> and the full sync (including a part from network) took 33 minutes
1170 2012-09-03 21:46:54 <Diablo-D3> [05:32:05] <TD> "We recommend that applications whose working set does not fit in memory STOP DOING THAT RIGHT NOW"
1171 2012-09-03 21:46:56 <Diablo-D3> ftfy
1172 2012-09-03 21:47:20 <TD> sipa: cheers :)
1173 2012-09-03 21:47:34 <sipa> now, let's try that again with BDB
1174 2012-09-03 21:51:19 <MC1984> so do all these improvements bring the it to the point where future technology outstrips projected blockchain growth
1175 2012-09-03 21:51:40 <TD> projected blockchain growth?
1176 2012-09-03 21:51:43 <sipa> without a blockchain fork, the blockchain growth is quite limited actually, anyway
1177 2012-09-03 21:51:49 <TD> isn't that the million bitcoin question :-)
1178 2012-09-03 21:51:59 <sipa> as blocks are max 1 MB, and contain max 20000 sigops
1179 2012-09-03 21:52:44 <MC1984> hmm 1mb every 10 mins
1180 2012-09-03 21:52:51 <MC1984> forever
1181 2012-09-03 21:52:55 <MC1984> seems doable
1182 2012-09-03 21:54:36 <MC1984> i wonder if the 1mb limit + minsers subsidy halving willl kick start the fees market
1183 2012-09-03 21:54:43 <sipa> TD: by the way, i just have a singleton instance of the database objects left, so no need for all the global pdb object stuff
1184 2012-09-03 21:55:15 changeling has joined
1185 2012-09-03 21:55:39 <MC1984> already 0 fee txs dont seem to be getting into first available block
1186 2012-09-03 21:56:11 <sipa> that's mostly because there are enough fee-paying transactions available to mine, i guess
1187 2012-09-03 21:56:21 <TD> great
1188 2012-09-03 21:56:35 <TD> MC1984: en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability
1189 2012-09-03 21:56:45 <TD> also see the thread on the forum about theoretical max ECDSA speed
1190 2012-09-03 21:57:01 <TD> ultraprune+leveldb are a good start but there are many more improvements that can be made
1191 2012-09-03 21:57:18 <TD> i'm starting to think that a single high-end server could outpace all of VISA and MasterCard combined with sufficient software optimization
1192 2012-09-03 21:58:29 <sipa> 7m instead of 4m for the first 161k blocks
1193 2012-09-03 21:58:54 <edcba> theoretical max speed of ecdsa ?
1194 2012-09-03 21:59:04 <edcba> oh before being broken too easily i guess
1195 2012-09-03 21:59:22 <sipa> edcba: no, it's about practical implementations
1196 2012-09-03 21:59:37 <sipa> the current OpenSSL-based code is far from the most performant ECDSA-verify code
1197 2012-09-03 21:59:38 <edcba> but cpu aren't really limited in speed
1198 2012-09-03 21:59:54 <sipa> i'm not sure the word "theoretical" is rightly placed there
1199 2012-09-03 22:01:06 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1200 2012-09-03 22:07:37 <TD> hmm
1201 2012-09-03 22:07:40 <TD> cpus ARE limited in speed
1202 2012-09-03 22:07:54 <TD> sipa: ok so it's looking like maybe a slightly less than 2x speedup?
1203 2012-09-03 22:08:24 <sipa> TD: i think the speedup if higher in the later parts of the chain
1204 2012-09-03 22:08:33 changeling has quit (Quit: changeling)
1205 2012-09-03 22:08:51 changeling has joined
1206 2012-09-03 22:08:51 <TD> ok
1207 2012-09-03 22:09:59 <sipa> looks like it's going to be 10min vs 19min for 193k blocks
1208 2012-09-03 22:10:13 changeling has quit (Client Quit)
1209 2012-09-03 22:10:14 paraipan has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
1210 2012-09-03 22:10:23 <sipa> and the speedup is probably largely dependent on the ratio CPU/IO speed
1211 2012-09-03 22:11:26 <TD> not anywhere near as significant as ultraprune, but i can live with a 2x speedup
1212 2012-09-03 22:11:27 <TD> :)
1213 2012-09-03 22:11:52 <sipa> actually, good idea; i'll do the same benchmark with git head
1214 2012-09-03 22:12:10 <sipa> i have no idea how that compares anymore
1215 2012-09-03 22:12:56 <gmaxwell> certantly much larger than that.
1216 2012-09-03 22:13:19 <sipa> i do feel that batch block connection during IBD is cheating, though :)
1217 2012-09-03 22:13:29 <sipa> (though it may not matter too much on leveldb)
1218 2012-09-03 22:14:52 balrog has quit (Changing host)
1219 2012-09-03 22:14:52 balrog has joined
1220 2012-09-03 22:17:01 ThomasV has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1221 2012-09-03 22:17:25 ThomasV has joined
1222 2012-09-03 22:18:21 paraipan has joined
1223 2012-09-03 22:22:22 <btctrader22> so, after much looking around at various implementations ... looks like linking against satoshi's client bits and pieces of code is still the easiest.
1224 2012-09-03 22:22:44 <sipa> btctrader22: what do you want to do?
1225 2012-09-03 22:23:00 <btctrader22> question for devs familiar with the satoshi codebase : is it safe to link directly with ,cpp files from the satoshi code base
1226 2012-09-03 22:23:12 <btctrader22> or is there some init sequence to ensure the code behaves ?
1227 2012-09-03 22:23:46 <sipa> yeah, init.cpp is kinda humongous
1228 2012-09-03 22:23:48 <btctrader22> sipa: various things. first thing I coded was something that generates a list of N (pub,priv) keypairs in plain bsae58
1229 2012-09-03 22:24:32 <btctrader22> sipa: humongous maybe, but ... doesn't really answer my question. I'm mostly interested in low-level address manipulation stuff.
1230 2012-09-03 22:24:41 <btctrader22> Don't particularly care about the block chain data
1231 2012-09-03 22:24:46 iocor has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1232 2012-09-03 22:24:54 <sipa> oh, just use base58.h and key.cpp/.h
1233 2012-09-03 22:25:06 <btctrader22> But would like to be able to eventually construct arbitrary TXs
1234 2012-09-03 22:25:34 <btctrader22> sipa: yeah, just did that. But I have no clue if there isn't some hidden init sequence I missed somwhere
1235 2012-09-03 22:25:34 Evilmax has joined
1236 2012-09-03 22:26:53 <edcba> if you want to do some stuff easily best option is to run stock client to validate everything and send commands with your own client connected to it
1237 2012-09-03 22:27:39 <btctrader22> edcba: nope. standard client is lame in that it works with one wallet and in many places seems to assume the blockchain data is available.
1238 2012-09-03 22:28:03 <btctrader22> edcba: also, the RPC interface is horribly limiting.
1239 2012-09-03 22:28:19 <edcba> that's why i say connect to it using bitcoin protocol
1240 2012-09-03 22:28:38 <sipa> btctrader22: blockchain data is actually only need for serving blocks, reorganising and rescanning
1241 2012-09-03 22:28:42 <edcba> you don't have to implement validation since stock client will handle that for you
1242 2012-09-03 22:28:54 <edcba> and forward you only valid stuff
1243 2012-09-03 22:28:55 <btctrader22> edcba: what I want to build, is a bunch of small binaries, shell-style that perform elementary operations and that can be glued together via shell scripts
1244 2012-09-03 22:29:50 <btctrader22> ecdba : ???? Can I generate 100 (pub,priv) keypairs using the native bitcoin protocol ? I don't think so.
1245 2012-09-03 22:30:22 Marf has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1246 2012-09-03 22:30:23 <sipa> through RPC? no
1247 2012-09-03 22:30:29 <btctrader22> sipa: yeah, but that was the essence of my question. It's rather unclear which part of code actually require what data to be around.
1248 2012-09-03 22:30:35 <sipa> but that's a task much more easily done with a library
1249 2012-09-03 22:30:44 <btctrader22> sipa:neither RPC nor protocol.
1250 2012-09-03 22:31:02 <edcba> of course since it's quite oblivious to bitcoin protocol
1251 2012-09-03 22:31:04 <sipa> what protocol apart from RPC are you talking about?
1252 2012-09-03 22:31:22 CaLXhaS has joined
1253 2012-09-03 22:31:25 <sipa> keypairs is purely a local wallet-related task
1254 2012-09-03 22:31:41 <btctrader22> sipa: the one edcba mentions, which I guess is the client to client p2p stuff
1255 2012-09-03 22:32:01 <sipa> oh no, of course
1256 2012-09-03 22:32:16 CaLXhaS has left ()
1257 2012-09-03 22:32:35 <sipa> i'd say interact with bitcoind for anything that does need broadcasting on the p2p network or validating transactions, or information about blocks
1258 2012-09-03 22:32:47 CaLXhaS has joined
1259 2012-09-03 22:33:39 <btctrader22> sipa: mmh. Can I create an arbitrary wallet.dat from a list of addresses using bitcoind ? Don't think so. The code can do that though.
1260 2012-09-03 22:34:10 <sipa> using importprivkey you can
1261 2012-09-03 22:34:27 <edcba> sipa: while running bitcoind ?
1262 2012-09-03 22:34:29 <btctrader22> sipa: nope. I'd have to restart the client each time.
1263 2012-09-03 22:34:35 <sipa> btctrader22: no you don't
1264 2012-09-03 22:34:54 <btctrader22> sipa: and importprivkey is dogslow because of the dumb decision of forcing a rescan at each import
1265 2012-09-03 22:35:10 <sipa> yeah, should make that optional
1266 2012-09-03 22:35:13 CaLXhaS has quit (Client Quit)
1267 2012-09-03 22:35:35 <sipa> or finish importwallet
1268 2012-09-03 22:35:46 <edcba> the problem is bitcoin client hasn't been well architectured
1269 2012-09-03 22:35:52 <btctrader22> sipa: how can I possibly create multiple wallets with a running instance of bitcoind ??? (I mean without restart)
1270 2012-09-03 22:36:02 <btctrader22> edcba: I'd strongly agree with that statement.
1271 2012-09-03 22:36:12 <sipa> btctrader22: oh, multiple wallets? not yet
1272 2012-09-03 22:36:24 <sipa> yeah, refactorings get low priority
1273 2012-09-03 22:36:33 <sipa> though there's certainly improvement
1274 2012-09-03 22:36:42 <edcba> not an easy task anyway
1275 2012-09-03 22:36:47 <btctrader22> and so, while waiting for it to become better architected, I have to link directly agianst bits and pieces of the code to get it to do what I want.
1276 2012-09-03 22:37:06 <sipa> btctrader22: though it shouldn't be too hard to have multiple wallets;
1277 2012-09-03 22:37:16 <sipa> create multiple CWallet objects, backed by different files
1278 2012-09-03 22:37:17 <btctrader22> hence my original question about the what needs to get executed before various bits and pieces of the codebase become functional
1279 2012-09-03 22:37:45 <sipa> i can certainly help when you have specific problems with running things, but it's kinda hard to say this and this
1280 2012-09-03 22:37:54 <btctrader22> sipa: ahah. now we're getting to where I'm alread at: linking against the codebase directly. My init question stands.
1281 2012-09-03 22:38:06 <edcba> want multiple wallets ? run multiple vms !
1282 2012-09-03 22:38:09 <btctrader22> *initial
1283 2012-09-03 22:38:17 <sipa> i and just answered it :)
1284 2012-09-03 22:38:18 <btctrader22> edcba: LOL
1285 2012-09-03 22:38:22 <TD> sipa: a 10 minute initial sync is definitely something that would be neat to demo at the conf
1286 2012-09-03 22:38:34 <btctrader22> edcba: you're clearly the simple and lightweight solution dude.
1287 2012-09-03 22:38:38 <TD> i wonder how hard it'd be to whip up a cooler way of presenting the sync
1288 2012-09-03 22:38:41 <TD> like a pie chart or something
1289 2012-09-03 22:38:44 <edcba> also don't use vmware since bitcoin client share the vmware web administration console...
1290 2012-09-03 22:38:48 <edcba> port
1291 2012-09-03 22:38:53 <edcba> so handy
1292 2012-09-03 22:38:55 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
1293 2012-09-03 22:39:13 <sipa> TD: reverse-header sync would be nice, as it'd allow a progressbar that counts the number of transactions imported instead of the number of blocks :)
1294 2012-09-03 22:39:27 <sipa> but i think i want some refactoring first... :S
1295 2012-09-03 22:39:29 <btctrader22> sipa: so ... the answer is : no one really knows and I've got to experiment. OK, fair enough.
1296 2012-09-03 22:39:30 <TD> one thing at a time
1297 2012-09-03 22:39:32 <edcba> i think satoshi is working for oracle
1298 2012-09-03 22:39:46 <sipa> yeah
1299 2012-09-03 22:39:49 <edcba> using bdb and preventing to use vmware
1300 2012-09-03 22:39:54 <TD> right now just getting 0.8 with ultraprune + leveldb + bloom filtering would be a big achievement
1301 2012-09-03 22:40:03 <TD> i suspect the bottleneck right now is gavin feeling overwhelmed with review work
1302 2012-09-03 22:40:10 <TD> piling even more on top .... :/
1303 2012-09-03 22:40:18 <sipa> yes, i think so
1304 2012-09-03 22:40:21 <TD> anyway, multi-threading sig checking seems like the next biggest win
1305 2012-09-03 22:40:37 <edcba> i hope he mined enough coins to be full time dev on bitcoin
1306 2012-09-03 22:41:49 <sipa> gmaxwell once suggested having a "turbo edition" based on recent improvements, being a bit more experimental
1307 2012-09-03 22:42:08 <gmaxwell> 15:23 < btctrader22> ecdba : ???? Can I generate 100 (pub,priv) keypairs using the native bitcoin protocol ? I don't think so.
1308 2012-09-03 22:42:15 <gmaxwell> Via the rpc? sure you can.
1309 2012-09-03 22:42:42 <sipa> not without adding them to a wallet
1310 2012-09-03 22:42:59 <gmaxwell> No, indeed, but did I miss that requirement? :)
1311 2012-09-03 22:43:07 <btctrader22> gmaxwell: nope. You missed the start of the thread. I wanted the (pub,priv) keypairs to juts be dumped in bse58. not added to wallet.
1312 2012-09-03 22:43:15 <gmaxwell> ah, okay.
1313 2012-09-03 22:43:16 <btctrader22> Anyway I got that part working.
1314 2012-09-03 22:43:28 <btctrader22> Apparently, that prt of the code seems to work standalone.
1315 2012-09-03 22:43:35 Evilmax has quit ()
1316 2012-09-03 22:43:37 <btctrader22> We'll see if the rest holds together as well
1317 2012-09-03 22:43:45 <btctrader22> for example the CWallet stack
1318 2012-09-03 22:44:12 <sipa> mostly the tx validation / block chain management is very intertwined
1319 2012-09-03 22:44:15 yellowhat has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1320 2012-09-03 22:44:25 yellowhat has joined
1321 2012-09-03 22:44:33 yellowhat has quit (Changing host)
1322 2012-09-03 22:44:33 yellowhat has joined
1323 2012-09-03 22:44:37 * TD -> bed
1324 2012-09-03 22:44:38 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1325 2012-09-03 22:44:52 <gmaxwell> 15:35 < sipa> gmaxwell once suggested having a "turbo edition" based on recent improvements, being a bit more experimental
1326 2012-09-03 22:45:11 <gmaxwell> mostly I'm concerned that leveldb and ultraprune have significant, difficulty to test, network partitioning risks.
1327 2012-09-03 22:45:14 <btctrader22> sipa: ok. like I said, going to experiment, we'll see what breaks.
1328 2012-09-03 22:45:26 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1329 2012-09-03 22:45:45 <gmaxwell> but there is a huge swath of nodes (e.g. end user clients) which both need the speedup and which aren't harmed greatly if there is some partitioning issue.
1330 2012-09-03 22:46:20 <btctrader22> gmaxwell: just out of curiosity, what will the upgrade path to ultraprune+leveldb look like for joe user ?
1331 2012-09-03 22:46:35 <gmaxwell> btctrader22: please report issues we find, we do want to further isolate hunks of the code, eventually making it possible to run the wallet standalone (/remotely) from the blockchain entry.
1332 2012-09-03 22:46:56 <sipa> btctrader22: at startup, it'd import your existing blockchain files
1333 2012-09-03 22:47:03 <gmaxwell> btctrader22: a long initial startup that rebuilds/reindexes local data.
1334 2012-09-03 22:47:06 <sipa> as the database layout is incompatible
1335 2012-09-03 22:47:18 <btctrader22> gmaxwell: will do as I find them. Items : The global fTestNet us butt-ugly. So is that macro that replaces printf.
1336 2012-09-03 22:47:29 <sipa> agree
1337 2012-09-03 22:48:10 <sipa> btctrader22: i dare you to look at the 0.3.19 code, which had wallet handling code mixed inside main :)
1338 2012-09-03 22:48:23 <btctrader22> Not to mentui that uiInterface thing that's dragged in when you link in utils.cpp
1339 2012-09-03 22:48:33 <btctrader22> *mention
1340 2012-09-03 22:49:00 <gmaxwell> btctrader22: there is a ton of hideous global stuff, but that isn't news.
1341 2012-09-03 22:49:08 yellowhat has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1342 2012-09-03 22:49:35 <btctrader22> gmaxwell: I'm sure you guys noticed them, yeah :D
1343 2012-09-03 22:49:46 yellowhat has joined
1344 2012-09-03 22:49:49 yellowhat has quit (Changing host)
1345 2012-09-03 22:49:49 yellowhat has joined
1346 2012-09-03 22:50:29 <sipa> damn, around 190k the speed of git head becomes soo slow...
1347 2012-09-03 22:51:15 <btctrader22> Next stop : small app to read an ascii list of (base58,Pub, base58Priv, Comment), make a wallet.dat out of it. Then the other way round.
1348 2012-09-03 22:51:29 <btctrader22> See if that works.
1349 2012-09-03 22:55:43 graingert has joined
1350 2012-09-03 22:56:17 Raccoon` has joined
1351 2012-09-03 22:56:39 <sipa> gmaxwell: git head: 41m34s, ultraprune: 19m, ultraprune+leveldb: 10m
1352 2012-09-03 22:56:42 niko has quit (Ping timeout: 600 seconds)
1353 2012-09-03 22:56:51 <sipa> for 193k blocks
1354 2012-09-03 22:57:37 Raccoon has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1355 2012-09-03 22:57:39 Raccoon` is now known as Raccoon
1356 2012-09-03 22:59:15 D34TH has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1357 2012-09-03 23:00:13 dooglus has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1358 2012-09-03 23:00:19 graingert has quit (Client Quit)
1359 2012-09-03 23:00:38 graingert has joined
1360 2012-09-03 23:02:54 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1361 2012-09-03 23:03:53 graingert has quit (Client Quit)
1362 2012-09-03 23:06:55 <btctrader22> ugh. linking in wallet.cpp and dependencies drags in a list of globals half a mile long
1363 2012-09-03 23:07:23 <sipa> if you want the wallet code, you need just about everything
1364 2012-09-03 23:07:29 ByteUnits has joined
1365 2012-09-03 23:07:30 <btctrader22> yup
1366 2012-09-03 23:07:35 darksk1ez has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1367 2012-09-03 23:07:36 <btctrader22> just figuring that out now
1368 2012-09-03 23:07:59 <gmaxwell> btctrader22: right; but the question is does it work if you don't call any of that stuff, don't have p2p up, or a blockchain, etc.
1369 2012-09-03 23:08:07 darksk1ez has joined
1370 2012-09-03 23:08:22 <sipa> i think it'll work
1371 2012-09-03 23:08:27 <btctrader22> I know. Got a link a binary before I get to answering that question
1372 2012-09-03 23:08:37 balrog is now known as |balrog|
1373 2012-09-03 23:08:58 <btctrader22> sipa: don't know the code base well enough to make a prediction on that. gut feeling given what I've seen is not optimistic
1374 2012-09-03 23:09:35 <sipa> the wallet pulls in the code from main, because it can create transactions that need broadcasting, and because it inspects the blockchain for confirmation
1375 2012-09-03 23:09:43 <gmaxwell> btctrader22: well, we've certantly been moving in a direction that would allow that, but I expect some issues because I'm not aware of anyone else doing it before.
1376 2012-09-03 23:10:08 <sipa> but the keystore management and transaction creation should work fine without any active node or block database
1377 2012-09-03 23:10:20 <sipa> actually, the unit tests do that
1378 2012-09-03 23:10:37 <btctrader22> exploratory work, to say the least. but goes to show the initial client code was slapped together in a rather ad-hoc fashion.
1379 2012-09-03 23:10:58 <sipa> well, i advise against looking at what saoshi wrote initially :p
1380 2012-09-03 23:11:03 <sipa> +t
1381 2012-09-03 23:11:03 <btctrader22> sipa: that's rather good news. I mean the fact that parts of the code are unit-testable.
1382 2012-09-03 23:11:19 <btctrader22> sipa: :D
1383 2012-09-03 23:11:28 <gmaxwell> btctrader22: Well come now, what digital currencies have you invented? Be nice. It's a rather small package, so the fact that it's not a paragon of object oriented design isn't the worst sin in the world.
1384 2012-09-03 23:11:47 <sipa> to me it looks like much of this was an experimental version
1385 2012-09-03 23:11:59 <sipa> that would get replaced in later stages
1386 2012-09-03 23:12:25 <btctrader22> I hate OO design. But that not doing OO design shouldn't prevent one from being an architect. That being said I'm in awe of what was built here. Just the guys wasn't a code, that's all.
1387 2012-09-03 23:12:27 <btctrader22> *coder
1388 2012-09-03 23:12:44 <sipa> btctrader22: you may want to have a look at libcoin; it's a nice refactoring of the satoshi code (though certainly less tested)
1389 2012-09-03 23:12:59 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1390 2012-09-03 23:13:23 <btctrader22> sipa: yeah, I looked at it. I'm loathe to use a fork of the satoshi code if what I built ever moves real coins around.
1391 2012-09-03 23:13:41 <btctrader22> sipa: exactly for the reason you mention.
1392 2012-09-03 23:13:59 dooglus has joined
1393 2012-09-03 23:13:59 dooglus has quit (Changing host)
1394 2012-09-03 23:13:59 dooglus has joined
1395 2012-09-03 23:14:13 RainbowDashh has quit (Quit: davidfg4 said 2 hours, 58 minutes ago in #reddit-mlp: your quit message is really long)
1396 2012-09-03 23:14:57 copumpkin has joined
1397 2012-09-03 23:15:15 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
1398 2012-09-03 23:16:58 <sipa> btctrader22: to give you an idea, before satoshi left, we didn't have wallet*, addrman*, sync*, netbase*, protocol*, keystore*, rpc*
1399 2012-09-03 23:17:56 <btctrader22> I see. One big source file. The way K&R intended :D
1400 2012-09-03 23:18:00 <sipa> wallet, protocol and keystore were done in main; sync in util; netbase in net; address management was less sophisticated but also in net
1401 2012-09-03 23:18:54 <btctrader22> yeah, I've noticed that the code was slowly getting in better shape. Great work.
1402 2012-09-03 23:19:41 <sipa> and I really hope that after ultraprune, i can split off a coins.*, blktree.* and mempool.* from main
1403 2012-09-03 23:20:55 <btctrader22> in an utopian world, the client should be built on top of a bunch of independent libraries ... one for crypto, one for the p2p stuff, one for wallets, etc ...
1404 2012-09-03 23:21:02 <btctrader22> but then, utopias are just that.
1405 2012-09-03 23:21:22 <sipa> well, they certainly help for seeing a way forward :)
1406 2012-09-03 23:21:51 <btctrader22> ok. I gotta get that wallet dumper done. ttyl y'all
1407 2012-09-03 23:25:52 <btctrader22> One would have thought main() was in main.cpp. One would be wrong :)
1408 2012-09-03 23:26:29 <sipa> Too straightforward.
1409 2012-09-03 23:26:44 <btctrader22> lol
1410 2012-09-03 23:26:59 <gmaxwell> meh. Well. I don't know that thats utopian either. Excessive indirection reduces reliablity, decreases performance, and increases memory usage. There is some right level of abstraction and isolation.
1411 2012-09-03 23:27:00 <sipa> oh, UI update code was already in main.cpp!
1412 2012-09-03 23:27:16 <sipa> *also
1413 2012-09-03 23:28:09 <btctrader22> I'm getting there. Only code patch to client code thus far is #ifdef'ing out main()
1414 2012-09-03 23:28:58 <edcba> main.cpp were where the main things is done :)
1415 2012-09-03 23:29:32 <sipa> main.cpp should be called blockchainmanagementandmempoolandblockandtransactionverificationandalertsandsomemiscstuff
1416 2012-09-03 23:29:43 <btctrader22> can't wait for the day when the whole notion of files just goes away and code becomes just code.
1417 2012-09-03 23:30:07 <edcba> neumann says code is data
1418 2012-09-03 23:30:57 <btctrader22> neumann is a dead old geezer.
1419 2012-09-03 23:31:32 niko has joined
1420 2012-09-03 23:32:31 RedEmerald has quit (Changing host)
1421 2012-09-03 23:32:31 RedEmerald has joined
1422 2012-09-03 23:32:52 OneFixt has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1423 2012-09-03 23:32:54 MC-Eeepc has joined
1424 2012-09-03 23:34:11 Marf has joined
1425 2012-09-03 23:35:07 MC1984 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1426 2012-09-03 23:35:53 iocor has joined
1427 2012-09-03 23:38:21 <btctrader22> it links !!! it's alive an it made a CWallet. OooOo.
1428 2012-09-03 23:39:19 edcba has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1429 2012-09-03 23:50:13 OneFixt has joined
1430 2012-09-03 23:52:36 edcba has joined
1431 2012-09-03 23:56:45 Raccoon` has joined
1432 2012-09-03 23:58:56 Raccoon has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1433 2012-09-03 23:58:56 Raccoon` is now known as Raccoon