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  11 2012-09-11 00:24:33 <osmosis> how do I 'squash into one commit' ?
  12 2012-09-11 00:26:10 <BlueMatt> git rebase -i upstream/master
  13 2012-09-11 00:26:20 <BlueMatt> then mark the one you dont want with a fixup (or f)
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  58 2012-09-11 02:37:31 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
  59 2012-09-11 02:37:31 <gribble> 198238
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  71 2012-09-11 03:08:24 <ub3rst4r> i was wondering if anyone knows if its possible to convert USD to BTC using PHP?
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  74 2012-09-11 03:11:27 <sipa> ub3rst4r: there is no well-defined conversion rate
  75 2012-09-11 03:12:36 <ub3rst4r> sipa but is there a API or something to use?
  76 2012-09-11 03:15:53 <sipa> typically, exchanges' last trade price, or some weighted average is used as conversion rate
  77 2012-09-11 03:16:05 <sipa> i'm sure mtgox and other exchanges have api's
  78 2012-09-11 03:16:27 <Arnavion> https://www.google.com/search?q=1+btc+to+usd
  79 2012-09-11 03:16:30 <Arnavion> ETA till that works?
  80 2012-09-11 03:16:35 <Arnavion> :)
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  93 2012-09-11 03:42:25 <sebicas> It there any performance problems with wallets that have lots of transactions ( talking over 10K txs )
  94 2012-09-11 03:42:44 <sebicas> ?
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 128 2012-09-11 05:12:46 <slush> Hello, maybe someone is interested in this? http://mining.bitcoin.cz/stratum-mining
 129 2012-09-11 05:12:54 arij has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 130 2012-09-11 05:13:18 <Luke-Jr> slush: sounds like reinventing BIP 22+23
 131 2012-09-11 05:13:19 <MagicalTux> slush: sounds good
 132 2012-09-11 05:13:36 <MagicalTux> this said I don't know other similar attempts to do that
 133 2012-09-11 05:13:38 <slush> Luke-Jr: re-inventing? :)
 134 2012-09-11 05:13:41 <Luke-Jr> slush: yes
 135 2012-09-11 05:13:48 <slush> Luke-Jr: did you read it?
 136 2012-09-11 05:13:51 <Luke-Jr> am
 137 2012-09-11 05:13:54 <slush> obvously not yet
 138 2012-09-11 05:13:58 <Luke-Jr> why not?
 139 2012-09-11 05:14:10 <slush> because it is quite long, you cannot read it so fast :)
 140 2012-09-11 05:14:13 <Luke-Jr> :p
 141 2012-09-11 05:14:41 <slush> MagicalTux: this is quite funny stuff, me and eleuthria published very similar concept at the same time :)
 142 2012-09-11 05:15:10 <Luke-Jr> slush: the comments on GBT aren't entirely correct
 143 2012-09-11 05:15:36 <slush> GBT?
 144 2012-09-11 05:15:43 <Luke-Jr> BIP 22/23, getblocktemplate
 145 2012-09-11 05:16:02 <slush> what's wrong?
 146 2012-09-11 05:16:40 <Luke-Jr> 1) the fundamental BIP 22 operation is fairly easy to implement, just making use of the more advanced functionality (which SMP doesn't even support yet) is complex
 147 2012-09-11 05:17:00 <Luke-Jr> 2) GBT does not require or depend on HTTP; it is intentionally designed to be JSON-RPC over any transport
 148 2012-09-11 05:17:19 <Luke-Jr> 3) GBT does not require a complete dump of the server's memory pool
 149 2012-09-11 05:17:33 <Luke-Jr> 4) checking shares shouldn't be any different AFAIK?
 150 2012-09-11 05:18:27 <slush> 1) there's still much more options than in stratum
 151 2012-09-11 05:18:46 <slush> I wanted to make it as easy as possible
 152 2012-09-11 05:19:01 <Luke-Jr> options are options
 153 2012-09-11 05:19:17 <slush> 2) well, but if you want to get it implemented in miners, you have to define whole stack.
 154 2012-09-11 05:19:29 devrandom has quit (Quit: leaving)
 155 2012-09-11 05:19:44 usagi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 156 2012-09-11 05:20:07 <slush> If I remember it well, the "response" for getblocktemplate is "submitblock"
 157 2012-09-11 05:20:23 <slush> so pool have to do full block validation for every share, right?
 158 2012-09-11 05:20:28 <slush> sounds quite hardcore for me
 159 2012-09-11 05:20:36 usagi has joined
 160 2012-09-11 05:20:39 <Luke-Jr> depends on what the pool allows
 161 2012-09-11 05:21:00 <slush> yes, all depends on everything :) That's what I'm saying that it's too much complicated for real world
 162 2012-09-11 05:21:10 devrandom has joined
 163 2012-09-11 05:21:10 <slush> anyway it was great to implement stratum pool ON TOP of it
 164 2012-09-11 05:21:24 <Luke-Jr> if you use the same feature set as stratum, it's just as simple
 165 2012-09-11 05:25:34 <Luke-Jr> slush: it would have made sense, if you had participated in forming BIP 22/23 :/
 166 2012-09-11 05:26:06 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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 168 2012-09-11 05:27:36 <Luke-Jr> why silently wait, developing something alternate in private, and announce it after the new standards are just about adopted?
 169 2012-09-11 05:27:57 <slush> Luke-Jr: Actually I don't know that stuff as well as you so I did not understand many of the options provided by the interface
 170 2012-09-11 05:28:12 <slush> I just wanted to design something easy, so I picked very limited subset from your megaproposal
 171 2012-09-11 05:28:28 <Luke-Jr> slush: ignore the sections you don't want? :p
 172 2012-09-11 05:29:05 <slush> Another reason is that I didn't know about the BIP 22/23 discussion before I started implementing my idea :)
 173 2012-09-11 05:29:40 <Luke-Jr> slush: are you on the Bitcoin development ML? ;)
 174 2012-09-11 05:30:15 <slush> yes, as well as on tor mailing list, tahoe-lafs mailing list, pyfilesystem mailing list and ~10 of ohers
 175 2012-09-11 05:30:22 <Luke-Jr> XD
 176 2012-09-11 05:31:07 <slush> Not that I'm proud of it, but I have 6500 unread emails just in inbox :)
 177 2012-09-11 05:31:24 <Luke-Jr> 14889 here >.>
 178 2012-09-11 05:31:37 <Luke-Jr> going back to 2005
 179 2012-09-11 05:33:50 <slush> well, back to topic. This is nothing against you. I think that BIP 22/23 do the job perfectly, really
 180 2012-09-11 05:34:16 <slush> But now the question is if we want universal solution for all use cases
 181 2012-09-11 05:34:20 <slush> And I say no
 182 2012-09-11 05:34:26 <Luke-Jr> that's silly
 183 2012-09-11 05:34:49 <slush> why?
 184 2012-09-11 05:35:27 <Luke-Jr> why would you want entirely different protocols for superset use cases?
 185 2012-09-11 05:36:21 <slush> How do you solve notification about new blocks in BIPs?
 186 2012-09-11 05:36:40 <slush> Let me guess - long polling?
 187 2012-09-11 05:37:06 <Luke-Jr> sure, it's proven to work well even with HTTP, and works fine over any transport
 188 2012-09-11 05:37:44 <slush> Did you read the beginning of my doc? There's really no reason to defend it by "it even runs on HTTP"
 189 2012-09-11 05:38:05 <Luke-Jr> it doesn't need to use a separate connection, though
 190 2012-09-11 05:38:24 <Luke-Jr> and I don't know what trouble you've had with it, but it works just fine for me (and most pools)
 191 2012-09-11 05:40:37 JZavala has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 192 2012-09-11 05:40:47 <Luke-Jr> btw, single quotes aren't valid as string delimiters in JSON :P
 193 2012-09-11 05:41:17 <slush> I know, I should fix it, wrote it off my head :(
 194 2012-09-11 05:42:15 <slush> All reasons why I described it as it is are in the docs. Including why long polling is hell
 195 2012-09-11 05:42:25 ovidiusoft has joined
 196 2012-09-11 05:42:26 <slush> And I think that you're the only poolop who like LP :)
 197 2012-09-11 05:43:00 osmosis has joined
 198 2012-09-11 05:43:05 <Luke-Jr> tbh, I'm writing a similar example using GBT, and finding Stratum's to be much more complex in practice :p
 199 2012-09-11 05:44:03 <slush> why exactly?
 200 2012-09-11 05:44:46 <Luke-Jr> just the initial setup work so far ☺
 201 2012-09-11 05:44:57 <doublec> what is GBT?
 202 2012-09-11 05:45:06 <Luke-Jr> doublec: BIP 22
 203 2012-09-11 05:45:18 <doublec> oh getblocktemplate
 204 2012-09-11 05:45:20 <doublec> thanks
 205 2012-09-11 05:45:30 <slush> with socket based protocol where shitty miners are not polling me every second, I can handle thousands of connections per server core
 206 2012-09-11 05:45:37 <slush> no way to do it with http and lp
 207 2012-09-11 05:45:42 <Luke-Jr> so don't use HTTP
 208 2012-09-11 05:45:45 <Luke-Jr> LP != HTTP
 209 2012-09-11 05:45:54 <slush> I know
 210 2012-09-11 05:45:59 <slush> there's no reason for LP
 211 2012-09-11 05:46:21 <slush> lp is just workaround for restricted environments
 212 2012-09-11 05:46:24 <slush> like HTTP
 213 2012-09-11 05:46:58 <doublec> use zeromq - no sockets, no http :)
 214 2012-09-11 05:48:54 <slush> doublec: what's wrong with sockets? :)
 215 2012-09-11 05:50:31 <doublec> slush: nothing :)
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 217 2012-09-11 05:55:56 <jrmithdobbs> note to self, post that shit to twitter immediately to get immediate feedback next time
 218 2012-09-11 05:55:59 <jrmithdobbs> lol
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 220 2012-09-11 06:26:26 <wumpus> zeromq great within systems, but is not safe for use over the internet (at least last time I checked it out)
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 222 2012-09-11 06:29:26 <jrmithdobbs> why the fuck does github have markdown or wtfever in comments, it makes talking about C/C++ code fucking infuriatingly annoying
 223 2012-09-11 06:29:54 <wumpus> well the markdown is ok.. the annoying thing is that it supports a html subset as well so swallows <
 224 2012-09-11 06:30:36 <wumpus> but yes the * can be annoyting too :-)
 225 2012-09-11 06:30:46 RainbowDashh has joined
 226 2012-09-11 06:30:55 <wumpus> always put code fragments between ` quotes
 227 2012-09-11 06:31:39 <Luke-Jr> I think if you put ```C++ for the start, it will even do syntax highlighting :p
 228 2012-09-11 06:32:54 <wumpus> yes you can make it syntax highlight
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 230 2012-09-11 06:40:58 <slush> Luke-Jr: do you have any example how looks submit from BIP22/23 miner?
 231 2012-09-11 06:41:08 <slush> Luke-Jr: is there any other standard than serialized block?
 232 2012-09-11 06:41:18 <slush> aka submitblock() call
 233 2012-09-11 06:41:50 <Luke-Jr> that's the simplest submission, but you can use extensions to make it less bandwidth heavy
 234 2012-09-11 06:42:11 <Luke-Jr> if you don't allow miners to change transactions, for example
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 237 2012-09-11 06:42:49 <Luke-Jr> Add "submit/truncate" to the "mutations" Array, and miners can send you just the header, for example
 238 2012-09-11 06:42:53 <Luke-Jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0023#Submission_Abbreviation
 239 2012-09-11 06:43:10 <Luke-Jr> "submit/coinbase", "share/truncate" might make a bit more sense, though ☺
 240 2012-09-11 06:44:29 <slush> well, you still have to validate coinbase transaction
 241 2012-09-11 06:45:45 drazak_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 242 2012-09-11 06:45:48 <jrmithdobbs> Luke-Jr: <3 you opened up that cheapshot and i couldn't resist ;p
 243 2012-09-11 06:47:33 <slush> Luke-Jr: honestly I cannot imagine that any miner can implement all that stuff correctly
 244 2012-09-11 06:47:39 <slush> don't say it's "easy"
 245 2012-09-11 06:48:07 <jrmithdobbs> Luke-Jr: (re: github comment, not this bip discussion)
 246 2012-09-11 06:48:12 <slush> and if there's no strict standard, how can miner know what to support and what not. When poolop can pick any optional feature he likes
 247 2012-09-11 06:48:54 <Luke-Jr> slush: the same way miners know what getwork extensions to support or not
 248 2012-09-11 06:49:47 <slush> yes, that's awkward as well
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 250 2012-09-11 06:50:02 <slush> I was reffering these "magic" http headers in my post too ;)
 251 2012-09-11 06:50:25 <Luke-Jr> it's awkward because they're out of band only :p
 252 2012-09-11 06:50:55 <slush> like ufasoft expects x-long-polling header even in long polling response. wtf
 253 2012-09-11 06:51:05 <slush> I find it out last week
 254 2012-09-11 06:51:36 <Luke-Jr> makes sense to fix problems in revision, not throw the whole concept out because problems existed
 255 2012-09-11 06:53:37 <slush> well, I created new revision of getwork and I call it stratum
 256 2012-09-11 06:53:44 <slush> it fixes all known issues with previous revision
 257 2012-09-11 06:53:45 <slush> :P
 258 2012-09-11 06:55:05 <Luke-Jr> slush: I call it Betamax :<
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 265 2012-09-11 06:57:52 <Luke-Jr> slush: do you really expect to throw away months of open development and design thought, for a limited subset developed in secret?
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 267 2012-09-11 06:59:06 <jrmithdobbs> Luke-Jr: do you forget you're talking bitcoin? ha
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 270 2012-09-11 07:00:36 <Luke-Jr> jrmithdobbs: >_<
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 279 2012-09-11 07:10:27 <midnightmagic> aaargh what does >_< mean
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 283 2012-09-11 07:12:30 <jrmithdobbs> usually that the person saying it is an anime nerd ragingg against the smiley man and can be ignored... little confused by luke's use
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 356 2012-09-11 10:25:22 <LolcustBackup> while I'm not exactly the person to judge mining/pooling things, but slush 's stuff is quite comprehensible at my level of understanding
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 361 2012-09-11 10:31:06 <LolcustBackup> meanwhile BIP 22/23 read like some arcane grimoire devoted to witchcraft and summoning Yog-Sothoth
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 364 2012-09-11 10:32:01 <LolcustBackup> of course, they are probably more versatile but oh boy the complexity....
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 367 2012-09-11 10:35:50 <sipa> well, slush's text is an explanation; bip22 is just a formal specification
 368 2012-09-11 10:36:12 PhantomSpark has joined
 369 2012-09-11 10:37:00 <sipa> they do have different purpose too; BIP22 allows local block construction
 370 2012-09-11 10:37:37 <sipa> so it allows miners to see which transactions are going to end up in the block, or even modify them
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 374 2012-09-11 10:46:01 <LolcustBackup> well, I do understand that 22nd allows for local block construction (which I suppose might become needed when pool server can no longer cope with work generation needs)...
 375 2012-09-11 10:47:13 <LolcustBackup> it's just that as it stands, it seems massively complex and way over my head when I try to grok it as a whole
 376 2012-09-11 10:48:45 <sipa> the idea is not very complex: you get a list of metadata for transactions to be included plus some requirements for the header
 377 2012-09-11 10:48:58 <LolcustBackup> maybe luke-jr should, I don't know, make something like a "case-action" explanation (and a comic ;) )
 378 2012-09-11 10:49:10 <doublec> bip 22 suffers from a lack of example usage
 379 2012-09-11 10:49:16 <sipa> indeed
 380 2012-09-11 10:49:36 <doublec> if this, then that, else maybe this, unless they include that, then maybe this
 381 2012-09-11 10:49:39 <doublec> very hard to follow
 382 2012-09-11 10:50:23 <doublec> slush and btcguild's proposals are a cakewalk to implement in comparison
 383 2012-09-11 10:51:06 <LolcustBackup> exactimundo, doublec
 384 2012-09-11 10:51:38 <doublec> which is a little unfair to Luke-Jr since feedback could be provided earlier
 385 2012-09-11 10:51:44 <doublec> but the complexity puts me off
 386 2012-09-11 10:52:24 <doublec> LolcustBackup: long time no hear from :)
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 391 2012-09-11 11:00:33 <LolcustBackup> yeah, doublec, had a lot of things happen in so-called RL... changed careers. now back to scheming tbx revival and having other forms of fun in the coinmunity ))
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 495 2012-09-11 14:49:31 <shamoon> if i run ./bitcoind with -addnode=x.x.x.x -addnode=y.y.y.y, will it definitely connect to those nodes (if they are valid bitcoin nodes)?
 496 2012-09-11 14:50:57 <sipa> it will definitely try
 497 2012-09-11 14:51:07 <shamoon> what conditions would cause it to not connect?
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 499 2012-09-11 14:55:43 <gmaxwell> shamoon: not being able to, being at max connections, IIRC.
 500 2012-09-11 14:55:50 <shamoon> ahh, gotcha
 501 2012-09-11 15:02:16 <helo> are devs generally supportive of colored coins?
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 505 2012-09-11 15:03:40 <kjj_> they seemed interested to me, but not exactly jumping at the chance to make the stock client deal with them in special ways
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 507 2012-09-11 15:04:28 <helo> i guess it gives some direction to how the coin control interface should work
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 509 2012-09-11 15:04:42 <sipa> the nice thing about colored coins is that it doesn't require upgrading every client
 510 2012-09-11 15:04:45 <helo> at least to make it straightforward to avoid mixing coins from one source with coins from another
 511 2012-09-11 15:05:02 <sipa> if you're using colored coins, you'll be using a client that supports them
 512 2012-09-11 15:05:15 <sipa> otherwise there would be no point in receiving them in the first place
 513 2012-09-11 15:05:20 <kjj_> sipa: the poor thing about colored coins is that they are just coins, waiting to get shuffled randomly off to the ether the first time someone accidently runs the stock client on them
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 516 2012-09-11 15:05:53 <helo> which would be the same mechanism in standard coin control where you might mark an input as "do not send or count as part of bitcoin balance"
 517 2012-09-11 15:05:54 <sipa> you shouldn't send coins to someone who isn't expecting them ever; that is even more true for colored coins
 518 2012-09-11 15:06:27 <kjj_> sipa: I'd still rather have a totally distinct structure
 519 2012-09-11 15:06:53 <sipa> sure, that has more elegance, but is much harder to do practically
 520 2012-09-11 15:07:02 <kjj_> following the orders of inputs and outputs seems hack-ish
 521 2012-09-11 15:07:07 <helo> so the interface would only need to allow someone to label an input (or group of inputs), and mark them "do not send". and then allow them to be manually sent.
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 524 2012-09-11 15:07:55 <sipa> but typically you'll assign some meaning to some colored coins
 525 2012-09-11 15:08:06 <sipa> more than just it being a colored coin
 526 2012-09-11 15:08:07 <helo> i guess one would create "groups" of coins, and could select each group's label (via combobox) to switch the client to report and send from that group
 527 2012-09-11 15:08:19 <kjj_> my idea was for a chain to handle financial instruments (not cash), but still use bitcoin addresses so that a corporate officer, for example, could query which addresses held them at a given block so they could pay dividends
 528 2012-09-11 15:09:02 <gmaxwell> helo: I think things people have talked about doing with them are generally daft... but they're a least bad option from what I can tell.
 529 2012-09-11 15:09:06 <kjj_> but that chain's software would need to understand the meanings of things so that it could enforce the network rules
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 531 2012-09-11 15:10:14 <epscy> colored coins sounds sort like the accounts system in the stock client
 532 2012-09-11 15:10:22 <helo> yeah
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 534 2012-09-11 15:10:34 <sipa> epscy: they're completely unrelated
 535 2012-09-11 15:10:47 <sipa> accounts have nothing to do with labeling individual coins
 536 2012-09-11 15:11:12 <gmaxwell> They're similar to the extent that they both apply local meaning to global data... but thats about where it ends.
 537 2012-09-11 15:11:38 <kjj_> and coloring breaks down if you want to do quantities
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 539 2012-09-11 15:12:46 <epscy> i don't really understand coloring coins, everything i have read about reminds me of open transaction
 540 2012-09-11 15:12:52 <gmaxwell> kjj_: huh?
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 542 2012-09-11 15:13:01 <gmaxwell> epscy: you're getting confused by hype then.
 543 2012-09-11 15:13:26 <helo> gmaxwell: can you explain where the similarities end?
 544 2012-09-11 15:13:29 <kjj_> maybe I should read the proposal again, but the one I read watched the order of inputs and outputs
 545 2012-09-11 15:13:37 <helo> rather, an example
 546 2012-09-11 15:13:52 <gmaxwell> epscy: somehow you and I agree that code 12345 signifies owership of the car that is currently mine.  Then 12345 can be spent and there is a rule to determine which output gains the new color. In this way bitcoin tracks the ownership of the car.
 547 2012-09-11 15:14:36 <gmaxwell> (you could use whatever rule you want to decide which of multiple outputs the color folows, and different applications might have different rules)
 548 2012-09-11 15:14:43 <epscy> can the 12345 be spent partially?
 549 2012-09-11 15:15:01 <gmaxwell> epscy: no input can be 'spent partially' that just isn't how bitcoin works.
 550 2012-09-11 15:15:45 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: but there can be multiple outputs
 551 2012-09-11 15:15:46 <gmaxwell> every coin is spent complete. You could spent it to two outputs, one being change... and then your rule determins how the color flows. Maybe to the first output, maybe to the largest. Perhaps your color has a quantity which is proportional to the value. etc.
 552 2012-09-11 15:16:06 <gmaxwell> The rule you use is just part of how the color your tracking is defined.
 553 2012-09-11 15:16:09 <helo> it seems that a simple rule would be to never send colored coin with non-colored coin... i guess needing to pay fees requires mixing...
 554 2012-09-11 15:16:31 <Luke-Jr> helo: no, you'd often WANT to send coloured with non
 555 2012-09-11 15:16:49 <Luke-Jr> helo: for example, this way you guarantee payment for the deed
 556 2012-09-11 15:17:15 <Luke-Jr> (inputs are car and payment for car; outputs are payee and buyer; both parties sign)
 557 2012-09-11 15:17:50 <helo> ahh, that is kind of neat
 558 2012-09-11 15:18:13 <gmaxwell> helo: I think the example implementation just had the color followed the first output. So you have a 1BTC deed holder, then you and the person buying the car jointly write a transaction that takes as input the sale price (provided by him), and the deed coin, and output the deed coin to him and the sale price to you.
 559 2012-09-11 15:18:22 <gmaxwell> and so that transaction atomically confirms or it doesn't.
 560 2012-09-11 15:18:31 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I don't like that model because it prohibits barter :p
 561 2012-09-11 15:18:56 <helo> it kind of throws transaction fee cost calculation out the window
 562 2012-09-11 15:18:58 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: well then you just use an escrow style transaction and do whateve.r
 563 2012-09-11 15:19:11 <kjj_> also, it has the quantity problem
 564 2012-09-11 15:19:14 <helo> if 1 satoshi can represent ownership of a multi-billion-dollar business
 565 2012-09-11 15:19:14 <gmaxwell> helo: how so? you'd just include whatever exces you what as fee and not take it in the output.
 566 2012-09-11 15:19:25 <Luke-Jr> helo: no? O.o
 567 2012-09-11 15:19:34 <sipa> helo: better, 0 satoshi can represent the same :)
 568 2012-09-11 15:19:43 <gmaxwell> helo: fees have ~nothing to do with value except for the anti dustspam thing.
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 570 2012-09-11 15:20:15 <Luke-Jr> (you can't reliably identify value of a txn anyway)
 571 2012-09-11 15:20:22 <gmaxwell> kjj_: it doesn't— if you want a divisible color you can just define some bitcoin value and use that. (then you have to have a color rule that has the first N btc in output value is colored.
 572 2012-09-11 15:20:35 <helo> err yeah, the fees would just have to cover its value-in-bitcoin
 573 2012-09-11 15:20:50 <gmaxwell> helo: fees aren't based on bitcoin values, not sensible to do so.
 574 2012-09-11 15:21:04 <helo> which will be less than its "colored" value
 575 2012-09-11 15:22:03 <kjj_> gmaxwell: the network won't enforce that.  what happens when a transaction takes 2 colored and 3 uncolored and outputs 2.5 and 2.5?
 576 2012-09-11 15:22:13 <Luke-Jr> helo: fees already don't care if you're sending 5 BTC or 50000 BTC. nor is there any reliable way for miners to know which
 577 2012-09-11 15:22:42 <sipa> kjj_: you'd assign a map<color,amount> to each txout
 578 2012-09-11 15:23:16 <sipa> so the first 2.5 output would have value 2.5 color, and the second one 0.5 color
 579 2012-09-11 15:23:18 <helo> i thought miners look at age as well as size. (where size ~= value)
 580 2012-09-11 15:23:40 <sipa> helo: weighted age of the inputs
 581 2012-09-11 15:23:45 <kjj_> sipa: ugh.  I don't think I'm alone in thinking that that sucks
 582 2012-09-11 15:23:47 <sipa> helo: not of the payment (which is unknown)
 583 2012-09-11 15:23:48 <helo> not size in kB, but size in bitcoin amount, that is
 584 2012-09-11 15:23:57 <gmaxwell> helo: size is the _data size_, and the regular anti-dos priority rules (which have nothing to do with fees other than if your txn gets qualified as free) do look at age, yes.
 585 2012-09-11 15:24:01 <epscy> it doesn't seem like colored coins are something we desperately need
 586 2012-09-11 15:24:17 <epscy> all this stuff can be done with or without it at the moment
 587 2012-09-11 15:24:21 <sipa> kjj_: not arguing for or against; just saying that sane semantics are possible
 588 2012-09-11 15:24:35 <gmaxwell> helo: fee calculation is purely fee/datasize, and ignoring fees on txn where the fee is pure dust.
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 590 2012-09-11 15:24:47 <kjj_> epscy: the idea is that bitcoin doesn't need to support it, it is something people can do on their own and piggyback on bitcoin's security
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 592 2012-09-11 15:24:54 <helo> i guess to core bitcoin developers, there isn't anything to be done to "support" colored bitcoin
 593 2012-09-11 15:25:00 <gmaxwell> helo: right.
 594 2012-09-11 15:25:14 <gmaxwell> And right, I agree that at the moment it does nothing useful.
 595 2012-09-11 15:27:07 <helo> so if someone bought a vps, the vps provider could send a "colored" satoshi to the paying address. maybe whichever address owns that satoshi could be the one used for authentication?
 596 2012-09-11 15:27:30 <helo> so one person could buy a vps, and then send the auth satoshi to someone else's address to allow them to use it instead
 597 2012-09-11 15:27:42 <gmaxwell> helo: sure, but what really did this accomplish? if the vps provider wants to rip you off they still can.
 598 2012-09-11 15:28:03 <gmaxwell> helo: and you could just change the password for it. Or hand over the key and let them change the password.
 599 2012-09-11 15:28:38 <gmaxwell> Smartproperty is of questionable value without transparent tamperproof hardware, which is an impossiblity; though perhaps it could be approximated well enough to do something useful.
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 603 2012-09-11 15:31:30 <jgarzik> the value is in ownership tracking and transfer, without VPS provider intervention
 604 2012-09-11 15:32:33 <jgarzik> In the distributed bond example, the bond writer will pay interest to whomever holds the bond
 605 2012-09-11 15:32:35 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: in that case the value is meaningless without the VPS provider's good graces (or reputational upkeep); and if you assume the vps provider will behave then you can do far simpler things. Like just have them sign a contract with their well known public key.
 606 2012-09-11 15:32:51 <jgarzik> amiller: httpsrv going?  :)  I'm gonna have to move forward without, otherwise :/
 607 2012-09-11 15:33:02 <gmaxwell> sure. well, I was talking about smart property there. Not bonds.
 608 2012-09-11 15:33:03 <jgarzik> wanna get bonds going for the trip
 609 2012-09-11 15:33:17 <jgarzik> aren't bonds a subset of smart property?
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 611 2012-09-11 15:33:45 <helo> gmaxwell: the assumption with colored bitcoin is that it is backed by a trusted entity, that will be required to track the movement of the colored coin they issue
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 613 2012-09-11 15:34:04 <gmaxwell> I don't think so? the bond itself has no existance.  At least I thought smart property refered to resources (like cars and computers) that identified their ownership through blockchain data.
 614 2012-09-11 15:34:33 <gmaxwell> helo: huh? anyone aware of and interested in the asset can track it. Thats completely decenteralized.
 615 2012-09-11 15:35:35 <gmaxwell> helo: giving the asset meaning — e.g. when it's controlling a VPS or whatever— may be another matter, but it depends on the application.
 616 2012-09-11 15:36:00 <helo> gmaxwell: i mean as far as it being worth more than its value in bitcoin, the issuer would follow it and, for example, give gold ounces to whoever comes in and demonstrates ownership of their colored coin
 617 2012-09-11 15:36:23 <gmaxwell> in the case of bond the centeralized party is the bond issuer, ... and without their good graces the dividends just don't happen. So, indeed you might as well just have them track the ownership changes.
 618 2012-09-11 15:37:18 <gmaxwell> helo: right but a color could be used for other things. It could be used, for example, to indicate membership in the satoshi-super-31337 club.. anyone who holds coin tracable to block 1's genesis is a member. :)  There is no centeral party in that example.
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 622 2012-09-11 15:37:47 <gmaxwell> (you can prove to anyone you're a holder with a sign message, and a list of your 6 degrees of bacon transaction list)
 623 2012-09-11 15:37:47 <kjj_> gmaxwell: that's why I think that trying to put payment policy in the system is a bit silly
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 628 2012-09-11 15:50:18 <helo> would the resulting blockchain bloat be bad?
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 631 2012-09-11 15:54:38 <gmaxwell> helo: coloring doesn't add any size, though it might add txn volume. Hard to say, depends on the application.
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 637 2012-09-11 16:08:43 <helo> how would a UI for accounts differ from a UI to allow safe manipulation of colored coin?
 638 2012-09-11 16:08:53 <helo> presumably a UI for accounts would include coin control
 639 2012-09-11 16:09:05 <helo> which seems to be what colored coin handling requires
 640 2012-09-11 16:12:53 <helo> ignoring the two-party "deed transfer" use case...
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 642 2012-09-11 16:14:02 <amiller> jgarzik, yeah move on without me, i may catch up later
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 658 2012-09-11 16:44:37 <MC1984> Hub Nodes - A list of the most well connected bitcoin super nodes.
 659 2012-09-11 16:44:38 <MC1984> what
 660 2012-09-11 16:45:06 <gmaxwell> Context?
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 663 2012-09-11 16:57:55 <MC1984> blockchain.info
 664 2012-09-11 16:58:12 <MC1984> http://blockchain.info/hub-nodes
 665 2012-09-11 16:59:31 <eian> I am collecting my own data on hub-nodes - I have a different result set
 666 2012-09-11 16:59:48 <eian> actually, very different at first glance
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 668 2012-09-11 17:00:46 <eian> I wish there was a way to download a csv from blockchain.info
 669 2012-09-11 17:02:54 <MC1984> i said things like this would probably be an emergent property of bitcoin
 670 2012-09-11 17:03:08 <MC1984> even without any sort of network logic towards this end
 671 2012-09-11 17:03:13 <MC1984> perhaps there should be
 672 2012-09-11 17:03:34 <MC1984> but i was told its vulnerable to attacks or womthing
 673 2012-09-11 17:03:44 <jgarzik> I'm terribly disappointed
 674 2012-09-11 17:03:56 <jgarzik> maybe I need to -addnode blockchain.info and some other key sites, to get my hubs on the list
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 677 2012-09-11 17:04:07 <jgarzik> or just increase the outbound connection count
 678 2012-09-11 17:04:20 <MC1984> whats the optimal number
 679 2012-09-11 17:04:30 <jgarzik> being on the fallback node list _and_ listed in a DNS seed apparently isn't enough
 680 2012-09-11 17:04:43 <MC1984> isnt there any research on optimal # of interconnects for x mesh net size
 681 2012-09-11 17:04:44 <eian> Optimal might be a uniform distribution for relay counts across all nodes
 682 2012-09-11 17:04:52 <jgarzik> should probably add a bunch of pools as direct connects
 683 2012-09-11 17:05:22 * jgarzik had hoped for something more organic
 684 2012-09-11 17:05:37 <eian> jgarzik, I have my own data set
 685 2012-09-11 17:05:43 <eian> it doesn't look that skewed on my end
 686 2012-09-11 17:05:53 <denisx> does addnode still only connects once and then tries never again?
 687 2012-09-11 17:06:55 <jgarzik> eian: do you see in your list us2.exmulti.net, us4.exmulti.net or eu3.exmulti.net (alster013.startdedicated.com)
 688 2012-09-11 17:07:29 <eian> jgarzil, I will let you know in a few
 689 2012-09-11 17:07:34 <eian> one sec
 690 2012-09-11 17:08:56 <eian> also, I don't know what interval of time blockchain.info is looking at for these intervals? is the relay count within one hour? one day?
 691 2012-09-11 17:10:39 <MC1984> i think there might be quite a few stats on that site that are bollocks
 692 2012-09-11 17:11:03 <eian> jgarzik, we are connected to you on ports 8333 and 8334
 693 2012-09-11 17:11:14 <eian> for us2
 694 2012-09-11 17:11:23 <eian> let me see the relay counts
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 696 2012-09-11 17:14:17 <eian> us2.exmulti.net has sent 133095 total relays between a time period of July 24th to Sept 1st
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 698 2012-09-11 17:15:11 <jgarzik> eian: that means 133,095 transactions were seen first from us2, before other nodes?
 699 2012-09-11 17:15:34 <eian> us4.exmulti.net has sent 132986 total relays between a time period of July 24th to Sept 1st
 700 2012-09-11 17:15:39 <eian> Not the first, just in total
 701 2012-09-11 17:15:42 <jgarzik> ok
 702 2012-09-11 17:16:52 <eian> eu3.exmulti.net has sent 133153 total relays between a time period of July 24th to Sept 1st
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 704 2012-09-11 17:17:07 <gmaxwell> 09:58 < MC1984> isnt there any research on optimal # of interconnects for x mesh net size
 705 2012-09-11 17:17:12 <gmaxwell> Optimal is not what you want.
 706 2012-09-11 17:17:31 <gmaxwell> the amount of data exchanged in bitcoin is very small.
 707 2012-09-11 17:17:39 <eian> jgarzik, I have more recent data, but it takes a while to process
 708 2012-09-11 17:17:41 <gmaxwell> What you want is secure without wasing enormous amounts of resources.
 709 2012-09-11 17:17:50 <MC1984> in terms of hops
 710 2012-09-11 17:17:54 <gmaxwell> And randomly wired graphs of decent order get that pretty well.
 711 2012-09-11 17:17:58 <eian> jgarzik, I even have a list of all tx's you've relayed :)
 712 2012-09-11 17:18:02 <MC1984> seeing as prop latency is ahuge issue now
 713 2012-09-11 17:18:11 <gmaxwell> MC1984: the hop minmizing network is for all nodes to connect to all others.
 714 2012-09-11 17:18:29 <MC1984> yes but thats insane
 715 2012-09-11 17:18:40 <MC1984> a balance could be struck
 716 2012-09-11 17:18:47 <MC1984> hence i wondered i there was research
 717 2012-09-11 17:19:12 <gmaxwell> MC1984: the only latency that matters (block propagation) really has little to do with the network topology. It gets high now because blocks take a long time to process and there are a high number of slow nodes.
 718 2012-09-11 17:19:29 <MC1984> oh
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 720 2012-09-11 17:20:30 <eian> about tx propagation - a tx lives on the network for about 40 minutes (median time)
 721 2012-09-11 17:20:35 <gmaxwell> MC1984: there is lots of research into efficient multicast distribution. (google Steiner tree problem) But all the efficient solutions result in networks where a single cut partitions, meaning they'd be highly vulnerable to attackers.
 722 2012-09-11 17:21:40 <MC1984> ah yes partitioning is ultra bad in this case
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 725 2012-09-11 17:22:53 <eian> about tx propagation - I have seen inv messages that advertise a tx for weeks
 726 2012-09-11 17:23:03 <MC1984> still, it seems like people are manually peering for efficiency anyway, which might still give you your single break = partitioned netowrk scenario
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 728 2012-09-11 17:25:37 <gmaxwell> MC1984: er, manually peering doesn't replace the randomly wired network, it's in addition to it.. so it can't reduce security.
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 730 2012-09-11 17:26:03 <gmaxwell> (I mean, I suppose some people are disabling the normal networking, which we don't make terribly easy to do accidentally, but .. well, sucks to be them)
 731 2012-09-11 17:26:33 <MC1984> not replace, but by definition the random links will be the less efficient ie less able to take the load if a fat link goes down
 732 2012-09-11 17:26:36 <MC1984> have i got taht right?
 733 2012-09-11 17:26:40 <gmaxwell> eian: they advertise a tx for weeks because the source is continually reannouncing it ever half hour or so while its unconfirmed.
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 735 2012-09-11 17:27:56 <eian> It's seems that anything longer than a few days seems excessive
 736 2012-09-11 17:27:57 <gmaxwell> MC1984: 'huh'?  Bitcoin's peak average datarate is about 13.3kbit/sec on average. No one cares much about very low latency except miners, who can presumably take care of themselves.
 737 2012-09-11 17:28:13 <gmaxwell> eian: why? their transaction hasn't been confirmed yet. They'll continue forever.
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 740 2012-09-11 17:33:12 <ThomasV> tcatm: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg10ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv <-- it is broken
 741 2012-09-11 17:34:11 <MC1984> oh good charts is back
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 747 2012-09-11 17:44:42 <firelegend> When EC multiplication is done with base point, what does it multiply against?
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 763 2012-09-11 17:52:19 <kjj_> firelegend: context?
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 767 2012-09-11 17:55:22 <firelegend> kjj_:Context?
 768 2012-09-11 17:55:32 <kjj_> you asked about EC multiplication
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 770 2012-09-11 17:55:47 <jrmithdobbs> btw, on that build update request .... I'm pretty sure static builds are completely broken as is anyways with makefile.unix
 771 2012-09-11 17:55:59 <firelegend> Yes, when you need to figure out anything from a private key, you do EC multiplication. I just wondered what it multiplied with.
 772 2012-09-11 17:56:04 <jrmithdobbs> I'm trying off master now but even re-adding -ldl it will not build with STATIC=all at all!
 773 2012-09-11 17:56:11 <jrmithdobbs> Luke-Jr: ^
 774 2012-09-11 17:56:33 eoss has joined
 775 2012-09-11 17:56:42 <jrmithdobbs> (as in, read: so why am I trying to work around something that is already broken without my changes?)
 776 2012-09-11 17:56:45 <kjj_> well, EC multiplication takes two operands, just like regular multiplication
 777 2012-09-11 17:57:02 <firelegend> Yes, and one should be the private key.
 778 2012-09-11 17:57:10 <firelegend> And the other is...context?
 779 2012-09-11 17:57:21 <kjj_> when you create a public key from a private key, you multiply the generator of the curve you are using by the private key
 780 2012-09-11 17:57:36 <firelegend> Ah.
 781 2012-09-11 17:58:11 <kjj_> I'm not sure what actually gets used when signing something.  I only studied it enough to figure out how to manipulate keys.
 782 2012-09-11 17:59:32 <firelegend> I was just experimenting with private keys from low values like 1 to 10.
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 785 2012-09-11 18:04:57 <firelegend> It is also fun to experiment with different values. For instance, the block hashes(which should be numbers) can also be used as private keys(though a little insecure probably) :)
 786 2012-09-11 18:05:28 <kjj_> any random value can be used as a private key
 787 2012-09-11 18:05:52 <kjj_> but the curve has less than 2^256 values, so some of them wrap around and are totally insecure
 788 2012-09-11 18:06:01 <firelegend> wrap around?
 789 2012-09-11 18:07:36 <kjj_> the EC field is finite, and has fewer possible values than 2^256
 790 2012-09-11 18:08:04 <kjj_> if you start from the maximum value and count up, you get MAX, 0, 1, 2, 3 etc.
 791 2012-09-11 18:08:09 <firelegend> kjj_:Yes, I found that out today by dividing 2^256 by the max possible number governed by secp256k1
 792 2012-09-11 18:08:33 <firelegend> oh, that doesn't sound nice.
 793 2012-09-11 18:08:44 <kjj_> so, if your random key is too big, it is the same as only having a few bits of key length
 794 2012-09-11 18:09:05 <firelegend> This website is useful, http://gobittest.appspot.com/
 795 2012-09-11 18:09:12 <firelegend> But it crashes when the number is exceeded.
 796 2012-09-11 18:09:27 <jrmithdobbs> sipa / gmaxwell / Luke-Jr / BlueMatt / denisx: can any of you build with STATIC=all on current master on any of the platforms you use? As far as I can see this was broken before i got to it. It's a glibc thing related to their getaddrinfo implementation it looks like. STATIC=1 works fine on master but breaks on my change on linux. STATIC=all is completely broken.
 797 2012-09-11 18:09:41 <firelegend> Wow, major highlight.
 798 2012-09-11 18:09:58 <Joric> firelegend, nice private key harvester
 799 2012-09-11 18:10:28 <firelegend> Joric:That website is not mine, but is useful in trying random values you can dig around.
 800 2012-09-11 18:10:43 <jrmithdobbs> and STATIC=1 is pretty worthless since it builds statically all the stuff that has constant security problems but dynamically links pthread/libz and that's it
 801 2012-09-11 18:11:04 <kjj_> jrmithdobbs: you always run into problems with the dlopen
 802 2012-09-11 18:11:39 <firelegend> Though implementing the private key thing was rather easy in Java, since all you needed to do was set the curve and do curve.multiply(privatekey).getEncoded();
 803 2012-09-11 18:11:43 <jrmithdobbs> kjj_: there's nothing in bitcoin that actually *uses* dlopen directly, real static builds are barely possible on anything using pthreads anyways
 804 2012-09-11 18:11:46 <jrmithdobbs> I'm not seeing the value
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 806 2012-09-11 18:13:48 <kjj_> jrmithdobbs: I don't see the point either, but it was beyond my skills to solve, and STATIC=1 was static enough for what I wanted to do, so I just gave up
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 808 2012-09-11 18:16:14 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, getaddrinfo requires dynamic linking
 809 2012-09-11 18:16:18 <phantomcircuit> it's dumb as hell
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 812 2012-09-11 18:20:29 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: static linking to libc would be dumb as hell
 813 2012-09-11 18:21:13 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, generally speaking that's true
 814 2012-09-11 18:21:26 <phantomcircuit> except getaddrinfo actually has strange requirements beyond that
 815 2012-09-11 18:21:52 <phantomcircuit> so if for example you're building an initrd image using static binaries
 816 2012-09-11 18:21:58 <phantomcircuit> you're gonna have a slightly annoying time
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 831 2012-09-11 18:43:34 <gavinandresen> Anybody know why I'm getting:  "/usr/include/gnu/stubs.h:9:27: error: gnu/stubs-64.h: No such file or directory"  when gitian-building qt-win32 ??
 832 2012-09-11 18:43:45 <gavinandresen> (from the gitian var/build.log)
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 834 2012-09-11 18:44:36 <kinlo> I'd say coz you're missing a file, but I feel like I'm stating the obvious...
 835 2012-09-11 18:45:39 <wumpus> can you post the rest of the error message?
 836 2012-09-11 18:47:13 <gavinandresen> https://gist.github.com/3700714
 837 2012-09-11 18:49:04 <wumpus> wtf, why is it trying to build qmake with -m64 
 838 2012-09-11 18:49:13 <firelegend> Recently I thought of myself, that if Github supported some linkback to function definitions, that would make the platform even more user-friendly.
 839 2012-09-11 18:49:41 <wumpus> I thought gitian built all the mingw stuff on the 32 bit vm
 840 2012-09-11 18:49:43 <firelegend> *to myself
 841 2012-09-11 18:50:08 <sipa> gavinandresen: gitian build of what? git head?
 842 2012-09-11 18:50:20 <wumpus> of qt for win32
 843 2012-09-11 18:50:28 <sipa> ah
 844 2012-09-11 18:50:31 <wumpus> but it appears to be using the 64 bit image instead of the 32 bit one
 845 2012-09-11 18:50:38 <gavinandresen> sipa ./bin/gbuild --commit bitcoin=HEAD ../bitcoin/contrib/gitian-descriptors/qt-win32.yml
 846 2012-09-11 18:51:08 <wumpus> the qt build process first builds qmake for the local machine, then uses that to build for the target arch
 847 2012-09-11 18:51:21 <wumpus> it fails on the very first file
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 849 2012-09-11 18:51:45 <wumpus> I'm sure the current qt-win32.yml worked here
 850 2012-09-11 18:53:26 <gavinandresen> ok....  this is the same VM I successfully built rc2 on.  I wanted to get a step ahead and get the new qt dependency built
 851 2012-09-11 18:53:54 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: thoughts on when the final realse will happen?
 852 2012-09-11 18:53:55 <gavinandresen> Oh, I'm building using USE_LVM ...
 853 2012-09-11 18:54:05 <sipa> LVM? you mean LXC?
 854 2012-09-11 18:54:19 <gavinandresen> Right, LXC...
 855 2012-09-11 18:54:37 <wumpus> ok that could explain why it suddenly uses 64 bit -- that's never tested
 856 2012-09-11 18:54:43 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: when the showstopper bug if fixed
 857 2012-09-11 18:54:57 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: which one is the showstopper?
 858 2012-09-11 18:55:04 <sipa> ipv6 rpc stuff
 859 2012-09-11 18:55:12 <gmaxwell> ah, okay, I was only following that mindly.
 860 2012-09-11 18:55:25 <gmaxwell> er mildly. I actually misread something and thought it was said to not be a showstopper.
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 864 2012-09-11 19:02:08 <sipa> gavinandresen: building
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 868 2012-09-11 19:05:04 <sipa> gavinandresen: same error
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 870 2012-09-11 19:05:52 <gavinandresen> ok, must be a LXVMC thing then
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 874 2012-09-11 19:07:10 <sipa> i suppose some of the platform detection code fails
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 876 2012-09-11 19:07:44 <gavinandresen> My KVM (or am I misremembering that acronym too) machine should be up and running tomorrow
 877 2012-09-11 19:08:11 sebicas has joined
 878 2012-09-11 19:08:44 <sipa> KVM = kernel virtual machine, LXC = linux containers, LVM = logical volume manager
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 881 2012-09-11 19:11:57 <freakazoid> Too many TLAs!
 882 2012-09-11 19:12:29 <freakazoid> KVM is also keyboard, video, and mouse
 883 2012-09-11 19:13:06 <sipa> yeah and LVM is also Las Vegas Monorail!
 884 2012-09-11 19:14:08 <wumpus> well I think simply the package is missing that includes that stubs64.h file
 885 2012-09-11 19:14:43 <sipa> maybe, maybe not; but the real problem is still that it builds in 64-bit mode...
 886 2012-09-11 19:15:38 <wumpus> yes, but it's certainly possible to cross compile qt for win32 in 64 bit mode
 887 2012-09-11 19:15:51 <wumpus> it's just that we never tested that possibility
 888 2012-09-11 19:16:17 <sipa> huh, that makes no sense...
 889 2012-09-11 19:16:39 <wumpus> the host system can be 64 bit
 890 2012-09-11 19:17:03 <wumpus> qt first builds qmake for the host system
 891 2012-09-11 19:17:10 <sipa> ah
 892 2012-09-11 19:17:14 <wumpus> then uses that qmake to build for the target system
 893 2012-09-11 19:17:18 <sipa> right
 894 2012-09-11 19:18:16 <wumpus> /usr/include/gnu/stubs-64.h is in package libc6-dev on 64 bit ubuntu, and  libc6-dev-amd64 on 32 bit ubuntu
 895 2012-09-11 19:20:20 <sipa> it's using a 32-bit VM, which means it's trying to use a 32-bit linux C compiler to build a 64-bit qmake?
 896 2012-09-11 19:20:36 <wumpus> for gitian it's using a 32-bit VM
 897 2012-09-11 19:20:49 <wumpus> all bets are off for LXC
 898 2012-09-11 19:20:51 <sipa> yes, but it means we're building a 64-bit qmake
 899 2012-09-11 19:21:04 <sipa> which makes no sense at all, as that won't tun in the 32-bit VM
 900 2012-09-11 19:21:11 <sipa> *run
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 902 2012-09-11 19:21:30 <wumpus> in a 32 bit VM it works fine
 903 2012-09-11 19:21:37 <wumpus> I've tested it with gitian
 904 2012-09-11 19:21:49 <sipa> s/32-bit VM/32-bit chroot/
 905 2012-09-11 19:22:14 <wumpus> I think it's because it's running a 32 bit linux os in 64 bit CPU mode :-)
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 908 2012-09-11 19:22:45 <sipa> ys, sounds pobable
 909 2012-09-11 19:22:50 <wumpus> chroot doesn't change the processor mode to good old i386
 910 2012-09-11 19:23:21 <sipa> there's linux32, which switches the CPU seen by a subprocess to 32-bit
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 913 2012-09-11 19:23:40 <wumpus> ok, that would probably make this work
 914 2012-09-11 19:23:50 <sipa> i'm surprised that LXC doesn't use that
 915 2012-09-11 19:24:44 <sipa> or maybe it does, but the Qt set uses more exotic methods for detecting its host
 916 2012-09-11 19:25:30 <wumpus> indeed
 917 2012-09-11 19:28:24 <wumpus> I wonder where it gets the idea to add -m64
 918 2012-09-11 19:35:30 <wumpus> it simply uses uname
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 920 2012-09-11 19:36:26 <wumpus> if that returns x86_64, it uses qt mkspec linux-x86_64-g++, which adds -m64
 921 2012-09-11 19:37:22 <wumpus> seems a pretty sane thing to do... ofc there might be a configure option to override the host system
 922 2012-09-11 19:40:10 <sipa> running gbuild in linux32 seems to help
 923 2012-09-11 19:40:12 <sipa> gavinandresen: ^
 924 2012-09-11 19:41:04 <wumpus> QMAKESPEC=qws/linux-x86-g++ ./configure
 925 2012-09-11 19:41:25 <sipa> gavinandresen: USE_LXC=1 linux32 bin/gbuild --commit bitcoin=HEAD ...
 926 2012-09-11 19:41:41 <wumpus> hehe, that's possible too of course
 927 2012-09-11 19:42:01 <sipa> though i think either lxc or gitian should be doing that for us
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 930 2012-09-11 19:47:22 <sipa> 118beff946faf30a7fb40c59e094ca62ee8bae8be357c4e5bc2b69817ba9eb24  qt-win32-4.7.4-gitian.zip
 931 2012-09-11 19:47:25 <sipa> 8715fc65434ce3dae964cdcf2205d4afff8c2937de748d5cc7cd9efb7c90e3e6  qt-res.yml
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 946 2012-09-11 20:41:36 <jgarzik> getblocks 165036 to 000000000000076adfd2 limit 500
 947 2012-09-11 20:41:36 <jgarzik>   getblocks stopping at 165040 000000000000076adfd2
 948 2012-09-11 20:41:36 <jgarzik> getblocks 165038 to 000000000000076adfd2 limit 500
 949 2012-09-11 20:41:36 <jgarzik>   getblocks stopping at 165040 000000000000076adfd2
 950 2012-09-11 20:41:36 <jgarzik> getblocks 165039 to 000000000000076adfd2 limit 500
 951 2012-09-11 20:41:37 <jgarzik>   getblocks stopping at 165040 000000000000076adfd2
 952 2012-09-11 20:41:44 <jgarzik> quite odd client behavior
 953 2012-09-11 20:41:53 <jgarzik> (this is from the server log)
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 957 2012-09-11 20:47:14 <gavinandresen> sipa: linux32 fixed it, but my build doesn't match yours (but if I recall, that doesn't matter for final bitcoind...)
 958 2012-09-11 20:47:17 <gavinandresen> 0b0a324274989506abfe65246ef728699e9b5282dfd4597c888f2e30c41e9bd0  qt-win32-4.7.4-gitian-r1.zip
 959 2012-09-11 20:50:26 <sipa> i recall something similar
 960 2012-09-11 20:52:20 <sipa> jgarzik: i believe that's the effect of the stuck-blockchain fix attempt #3
 961 2012-09-11 20:52:31 <sipa> i wonder whether we shouldn't just disable that
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 963 2012-09-11 20:53:14 <sipa> the only thing it helps against is when someone's client changes rules incompatible (such as the clients with the too-early BIP16 switchover date)
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 965 2012-09-11 20:53:46 <sipa> when they switched to later builds with correct timestamp
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 986 2012-09-11 22:12:35 <TD> jgarzik: that's a bug in bitcoinj
 987 2012-09-11 22:12:39 <TD> jgarzik: i fixed it the other day
 988 2012-09-11 22:13:01 <TD> jgarzik: if the subver was logged you could see the peer was advertising itself as such
 989 2012-09-11 22:15:18 <jgarzik> ah
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1007 2012-09-11 22:50:17 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #58: FAILURE in 3 hr 47 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/58/
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1017 2012-09-11 22:58:34 <weex> Luke-Jr: what's the name of your handy dandy transaction channel?
1018 2012-09-11 22:58:44 <Luke-Jr> #bitcoin-watcfh
1019 2012-09-11 22:58:45 <Luke-Jr> #bitcoin-watch
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1021 2012-09-11 23:01:18 <weex> thx, don't know what's up with #bitcoin-market
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1025 2012-09-11 23:08:15 <sturles> AFAIK #bitcoin-market use a feed from bitcoincharts, and the feed is down.
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