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  24 2012-09-13 01:42:39 <dk5> was there any major change to the network on aug 22?
  25 2012-09-13 01:44:33 vigilyn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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  29 2012-09-13 01:52:11 <gmaxwell> Nothing is coming to mind.
  30 2012-09-13 01:52:59 <sipa> anything groundbraking happened today?
  31 2012-09-13 01:53:26 <gmaxwell> your pull worked for someone.
  32 2012-09-13 01:54:06 <MC1984> groundbreaking?
  33 2012-09-13 01:54:28 <gmaxwell> dk5: if you have some context it might jog my memory.
  34 2012-09-13 01:54:49 <gmaxwell> dk5: logs here are public skimming them might be good.
  35 2012-09-13 01:55:17 <MC1984> researchers have demonstrated stem cell regeneration of cochler cilli in an animal model
  36 2012-09-13 01:55:39 <MC1984> given my hearing loss thats relevant to my interests
  37 2012-09-13 01:55:50 <jgarzik> anything aerobraking happened today?
  38 2012-09-13 01:56:06 paraipan has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
  39 2012-09-13 01:59:27 <sipa> dk5: august 22 this year?
  40 2012-09-13 02:00:12 <gmaxwell> MC1984: thats news for every adult perhaps; all adults, expecially men, have hearing loss believed to be from cilli death.
  41 2012-09-13 02:00:36 <MC1984> quite so
  42 2012-09-13 02:01:02 <BlueMatt> oh, so I can turn up the music and blast my hearing away without fear now?
  43 2012-09-13 02:01:04 <sipa> cilli?
  44 2012-09-13 02:01:06 <MC1984> the market for real regeneration for the aged is staggering
  45 2012-09-13 02:01:23 <BlueMatt> sipa: the hair in your ears which vibrates activating the nerves to your brain
  46 2012-09-13 02:01:30 <sipa> ah
  47 2012-09-13 02:01:47 <gmaxwell> cilia*
  48 2012-09-13 02:01:52 vampireb has joined
  49 2012-09-13 02:01:53 <MC1984> i myself am missing 4khz in my right ear and have attendant tinnitus, and i would rather not still have it the day i die
  50 2012-09-13 02:02:16 <dk5> gmaxwell, sipa: yes, this year. no protocol changes or news coming out?
  51 2012-09-13 02:02:35 <sipa> anything reason in particular to ask about that date?
  52 2012-09-13 02:02:53 <dk5> my node's connections dropped significantly between 2-4am on that date, then went back to normal
  53 2012-09-13 02:02:57 <dk5> can't explain why
  54 2012-09-13 02:03:11 <sipa> may just have been a network hiccup?
  55 2012-09-13 02:03:21 <sipa> of your internet connection, i mean
  56 2012-09-13 02:03:37 <gmaxwell> dk5: yea, could just be upstream networks with flapping links.
  57 2012-09-13 02:04:20 <dk5> hmm. lost 1000 connections.
  58 2012-09-13 02:04:54 <BlueMatt> the attacker DDoSing you stopped temporarily?
  59 2012-09-13 02:05:21 <gmaxwell> that or you've identified an evil massive scale data collector. :P
  60 2012-09-13 02:05:41 <jgarzik> organ regeneration is ~10 years out.  full limb, 25 years.
  61 2012-09-13 02:06:04 <dk5> gmaxwell: haha might be it ;-P
  62 2012-09-13 02:07:03 <MC1984> jgarzik thats what they said 10 years ago
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  69 2012-09-13 02:23:07 <denisx> Luke-Jr: I think I know why deepbit sometimes serves an unknown block
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  75 2012-09-13 02:34:01 <sipa> denisx: explain?
  76 2012-09-13 02:34:34 <denisx> sipa: on my pool when I found a block alot of miner switch to with really big GH/s
  77 2012-09-13 02:35:01 <denisx> so if you artificially send an unknown block out, they will think you got one and switch to you
  78 2012-09-13 02:35:11 <Luke-Jr> lol
  79 2012-09-13 02:35:37 <gmaxwell> ah hopperbaiting.
  80 2012-09-13 02:35:42 <denisx> gmaxwell: yes
  81 2012-09-13 02:36:01 <gmaxwell> denisx: dude, you run a proportional pool? Don't do that. It's not fair to your honest but ignorant miners.
  82 2012-09-13 02:36:01 <Diablo-D3> lol
  83 2012-09-13 02:36:03 <Diablo-D3> thats dirty
  84 2012-09-13 02:36:09 <denisx> gmaxwell: no, I don't
  85 2012-09-13 02:36:12 <gmaxwell> oh okay.
  86 2012-09-13 02:36:29 <denisx> but some miners still hop
  87 2012-09-13 02:36:33 <gmaxwell> right.
  88 2012-09-13 02:37:08 <sipa> so deepbit is luring those in? Ha.
  89 2012-09-13 02:37:14 <denisx> sipa: maybe
  90 2012-09-13 02:37:34 <Luke-Jr> Tycho seems to think it's a load balancing issue
  91 2012-09-13 02:37:36 <Luke-Jr> fwiw
  92 2012-09-13 02:37:46 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  93 2012-09-13 02:37:49 <Luke-Jr> also, the blocks were real mainnet blocks
  94 2012-09-13 02:37:52 B0g4r7 has joined
  95 2012-09-13 02:38:07 <denisx> Luke-Jr: I thought you said total unknown blocks
  96 2012-09-13 02:38:12 <Luke-Jr> BFGMiner seems to be buggy when printing the error message - it's the first 32 bytes of the header, not the prevblock
  97 2012-09-13 02:38:30 <gmaxwell> accidentally beneficial load balancing issue, too perhaps.
  98 2012-09-13 02:40:31 <Luke-Jr> on another note, it sounds like Deepbit is freezing withdrawls of hoppers instead of(?) banning them
  99 2012-09-13 02:40:47 fiesh_ has joined
 100 2012-09-13 02:41:00 fiesh has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
 101 2012-09-13 02:41:14 <BlueMatt> do they still not use anti-hopper algorithms?
 102 2012-09-13 02:41:24 <BlueMatt> s/algorithms/payout algorithms/
 103 2012-09-13 02:41:33 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: same old prop or PPS
 104 2012-09-13 02:41:36 <MC1984> whats an unknown block
 105 2012-09-13 02:41:42 <BlueMatt> wow...
 106 2012-09-13 02:43:07 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: there are a fair number of miners who are totally confused by hopping.. they think that proportional is 'fair' and that anything else peanalizes them for having a lossy network connection or bad luck in part of a round.
 107 2012-09-13 02:43:50 <gmaxwell> in #p2pool there is a slow but regular pace of people who are either upset about the initial payouts when they start, or convinced p2pool is flawed because they paid hours after stopping.
 108 2012-09-13 02:43:59 <Luke-Jr> lol\
 109 2012-09-13 02:44:10 BGL has joined
 110 2012-09-13 02:44:47 <gmaxwell> Esp since a lot of miners think that works accumulates to solve a block.
 111 2012-09-13 02:45:01 <gmaxwell> so obviously proportional is the one true fair way.
 112 2012-09-13 02:45:14 <Luke-Jr> >_<
 113 2012-09-13 02:46:09 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: wow...people's lack of understanding of basic math never fails to amaze me
 114 2012-09-13 02:47:29 <gmaxwell> doesn't help that hard PPS pool often have high fees. (in no way compares to how you'll get screwed by hoppers however). I bet this actually works in pools that do both's favor, a lot of people who don't grok the math at least try to test.. perhaps they get less on proportional due to hopping and move to PPS?
 115 2012-09-13 02:49:26 devrandom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 116 2012-09-13 02:50:25 <sipa> what? deepbit is only 6% anymore?
 117 2012-09-13 02:50:34 <sipa> (according to blockchain.info)
 118 2012-09-13 02:50:47 <Luke-Jr> sipa: Deepbit blocks them to make detection harder
 119 2012-09-13 02:51:18 <denisx> my pool is also hidden
 120 2012-09-13 02:51:18 <sipa> ah
 121 2012-09-13 02:52:15 <MC1984> is deepbit a tad sinister or what then
 122 2012-09-13 02:52:32 <gmaxwell> Nah, not at all.
 123 2012-09-13 02:52:49 <MC1984> oh
 124 2012-09-13 02:52:59 <gmaxwell> the hidden stuff is fighting (probably ineffectively) against hoppers.
 125 2012-09-13 02:53:29 <gmaxwell> but it's not like the hoppers cost a pool operator money, unless the swings are so intense that they overload when there and leave the pool stranded when gone.
 126 2012-09-13 02:54:23 <Luke-Jr> ironically, a group of hoppers has been discussing setting up their own prop pool(s) to hop :p
 127 2012-09-13 02:54:26 <MC1984> the whole pooled mining thing is kinda mega emergent property of bitcoin int it
 128 2012-09-13 02:54:37 <denisx> Luke-Jr: lolz
 129 2012-09-13 02:54:59 <sipa> Luke-Jr: ?
 130 2012-09-13 02:55:02 <gmaxwell> MC1984: I suspect it wouldn't have happened if stuff like p2pool had been implemented first (even though there are some advantages from central pools)
 131 2012-09-13 02:55:11 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: facepalm.
 132 2012-09-13 02:55:20 <gmaxwell> Unless they're planning on tricking suckers to use them.
 133 2012-09-13 02:55:32 <BlueMatt> hmm...has anyone spent any time with hal's faster sig checker? I implemented it in bitcoinj and must've missed something because Im getting false negatives...
 134 2012-09-13 02:55:32 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: exactly
 135 2012-09-13 02:55:35 <MC1984> yeah p2pool is taking a while to get going
 136 2012-09-13 02:55:51 <sipa> BlueMatt: haven't tried it yet
 137 2012-09-13 02:55:59 <MC1984> seems like the pools are gonna be around for a good while
 138 2012-09-13 02:56:13 <gmaxwell> MC1984: it's harder to use. and there is a huge based of people that picked a pool once a year ago and never looked back.
 139 2012-09-13 02:56:29 <MC1984> pretty much
 140 2012-09-13 02:56:39 <Luke-Jr> MC1984: ASICs kill centralized pools mostly
 141 2012-09-13 02:56:53 <denisx> Luke-Jr: why that?
 142 2012-09-13 02:57:02 <gmaxwell> Plus its prone to misunderstanding, and it had a big chunk of poor performance though thats solidly fixed now.
 143 2012-09-13 02:57:02 <MC1984> i wonder what would happen if p2pool just existed as part of the satoshi client, so would get good uptake as people upgrade
 144 2012-09-13 02:57:16 <Luke-Jr> denisx: getwork can't handle the load, and the ASIC-compatible getblocktemplate only supports decentralized
 145 2012-09-13 02:57:28 <Luke-Jr> MC1984: clients shouldn't favour pools
 146 2012-09-13 02:57:36 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I expect a lot of asic users to end up on centeralized pools; it's not like plunking down $30k on unicorn chips means you're a science wiz
 147 2012-09-13 02:57:50 <MC1984> well its not really a pool
 148 2012-09-13 02:57:58 <gmaxwell> MC1984: don't argue this with luke.
 149 2012-09-13 02:58:08 <Luke-Jr> MC1984: yes it is
 150 2012-09-13 02:58:10 <MC1984> okie dokie
 151 2012-09-13 02:58:23 <Luke-Jr> MC1984: the only unique factors to p2pool are bad things :p
 152 2012-09-13 02:58:31 <denisx> if the clients use rollntime and maybe diff-4 or diff-8 all should be fine
 153 2012-09-13 02:58:41 <Luke-Jr> denisx: rollntime only gets about 1 TH of work
 154 2012-09-13 02:59:16 <gmaxwell> denisx: doesn't matter, it's not had to make a protocol that allows local extranonce generation.
 155 2012-09-13 02:59:21 <gmaxwell> s/had/hard/
 156 2012-09-13 02:59:27 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: tell the unc redhat recruiters they should be doing a better job, btw
 157 2012-09-13 03:00:12 RainbowDashh has quit (Quit: <NAME> said 2 hours, 58 minutes ago in <CHANNEL>: your quit message is really long)
 158 2012-09-13 03:00:19 * BlueMatt would like to see jgarzik doing the recruiting
 159 2012-09-13 03:00:44 <denisx> this should all be done before the asics arrive
 160 2012-09-13 03:01:23 <Luke-Jr> denisx: it mostly is, I've been working on it almost constantly the past month
 161 2012-09-13 03:01:52 <Luke-Jr> could use some better non-technical documentation tho
 162 2012-09-13 03:01:56 <gmaxwell> denisx: getblocktemplate is partially made to facilitate that.
 163 2012-09-13 03:01:58 <Luke-Jr> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=108854.0
 164 2012-09-13 03:06:11 RainbowDashh has joined
 165 2012-09-13 03:06:44 <denisx> I predict alot of pools will not implement this and maybe die
 166 2012-09-13 03:07:15 <Luke-Jr> denisx: worse would be if they implement slush's centralized extranonce protocol :/
 167 2012-09-13 03:08:55 <gmaxwell> it's really a question of poolserver software, I assume only the oldest pools are running straight up custom poolserver software.
 168 2012-09-13 03:09:11 <sipa> well, for a traditional miner on a centralized pool, slush's protocol is probably easier and faster
 169 2012-09-13 03:10:09 <Luke-Jr> sipa: for a miner, all they care about is running the software
 170 2012-09-13 03:10:29 <denisx> I use a very modfified version of pushpoold
 171 2012-09-13 03:10:30 RainbowDashh has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 172 2012-09-13 03:10:31 <Luke-Jr> implementing StratumMP is at least more work to implement
 173 2012-09-13 03:10:49 <gmaxwell> Indeed, what matters is whats in the software.. and its kinda lame if miners end up having to support four protocols.
 174 2012-09-13 03:11:04 <gmaxwell> s/miners/miner software authors/
 175 2012-09-13 03:11:26 <denisx> I like that right now the pool software is mostly a proxy (with stats) for bitcoind
 176 2012-09-13 03:12:25 <gmaxwell> denisx: getblocktemplate can generally preserve that— bitcoind offers getblocktemplate. (it's how many of the more modern poolservers talk to it)
 177 2012-09-13 03:12:30 <Luke-Jr> denisx: yours is?
 178 2012-09-13 03:12:44 <denisx> yes
 179 2012-09-13 03:13:10 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: well, pools need to make their own coinbase at least
 180 2012-09-13 03:13:29 <denisx> I always wanted to move the merkletree building to pushpoold, but never had the resources to do that
 181 2012-09-13 03:13:41 RainbowDashh has joined
 182 2012-09-13 03:13:58 <Luke-Jr> denisx: pretty sure somebody did
 183 2012-09-13 03:14:00 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: yea, a little less of a proxy, the rest can be passthrough though.
 184 2012-09-13 03:17:42 <denisx> and the asics clients will not support the old way?
 185 2012-09-13 03:19:59 <sipa> who knows?
 186 2012-09-13 03:21:28 <sipa> as far as i know, no ASIC miner exists :)
 187 2012-09-13 03:21:32 <gmaxwell> I expect they will but it won't work well at least for the larger ones.
 188 2012-09-13 03:23:08 <denisx> asics are overestimated and the diificulty will help me to prove it ;)
 189 2012-09-13 03:23:17 JZavala has joined
 190 2012-09-13 03:23:34 <jgarzik> asics are hot air
 191 2012-09-13 03:23:41 <Luke-Jr> …
 192 2012-09-13 03:24:05 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: Thought you bought some BFL unicorn boxes?
 193 2012-09-13 03:24:17 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: yes, I've spent bitcoins on hot air
 194 2012-09-13 03:24:24 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: two providers worth, even
 195 2012-09-13 03:25:19 da2ce7_d is now known as da2ce7
 196 2012-09-13 03:26:25 <gmaxwell> I was a bit too concerned that if their first part run is defective they'll be bankrupt. Not worth it. I mine for fun and because I like bitcoin. I can buy the next wave of parts, or this one at a deep discount once people realize the the difficulty spike screwed up their economic planning.
 197 2012-09-13 03:27:07 <jgarzik> it seems doubtful that miners will make a profit, but who knows
 198 2012-09-13 03:27:26 * jgarzik just wants first run bitcoin ASICs, whoever produces them
 199 2012-09-13 03:27:29 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I figure as long I get mine for the first difficulty period, I'll be ok <.<
 200 2012-09-13 03:27:40 <jgarzik> even [Tycho] is working on ASIC, and is selling ASIC bonds for future dev
 201 2012-09-13 03:28:00 <jgarzik> icbit is a bit too daunting, so no purchases made there
 202 2012-09-13 03:28:17 * jgarzik seriously wonders if he could do a cubesat bond
 203 2012-09-13 03:28:28 <sipa> cubesat?
 204 2012-09-13 03:28:32 <gmaxwell> sure, though most everyone is doing cheap Taiwanese 130nm fab runs. (and charging prices that are ... very profitable against those costs)... doesn't seem super wise to me.
 205 2012-09-13 03:28:40 <gmaxwell> [[Cubesat]]
 206 2012-09-13 03:28:52 <gmaxwell> aw this channel doesn't have the wikipedia link deref bot.
 207 2012-09-13 03:29:02 <gmaxwell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CubeSat
 208 2012-09-13 03:29:12 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: it ought to have an asic miner in it of course.
 209 2012-09-13 03:29:20 <copumpkin> here I was thinking it was a satisfiability algorithm
 210 2012-09-13 03:29:36 <gmaxwell> and bitcoin txn relaying.
 211 2012-09-13 03:30:17 <jgarzik> hehehe, I was thinking more along the lines of a boring comm sat, maybe with a camera or two
 212 2012-09-13 03:30:37 <sipa> copumpkin: one that runs in O(n^3), and thereby proves P=NP ?
 213 2012-09-13 03:30:41 <jgarzik> cheap off the shelf parts, space-wise, means stuff too weak to run bitcoin software
 214 2012-09-13 03:30:46 <copumpkin> sipa: ZOMG
 215 2012-09-13 03:30:48 <copumpkin> yesh
 216 2012-09-13 03:30:57 <jgarzik> 100 Mhz processors, 128 MB RAM, etc.
 217 2012-09-13 03:31:02 <copumpkin> anyway, SMT >> SAT
 218 2012-09-13 03:31:07 <copumpkin> SAT is so last century
 219 2012-09-13 03:31:11 <sipa> haha
 220 2012-09-13 03:33:38 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
 221 2012-09-13 03:33:46 [7] has joined
 222 2012-09-13 03:34:58 <denisx> hi [7]
 223 2012-09-13 03:37:45 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: pshaw. thats not ambitious, a bitcoin relay would be ambitious, plus camera of course.  It would have shade of "some crazy dictatorship blocks the internet, fuck you, bitcoin users launch satellite" :P (so people there can exchange coins using the computers and radios they don't have, :( )
 224 2012-09-13 03:38:12 <jgarzik> hehehe, true
 225 2012-09-13 03:38:18 RainbowDashh has quit (Quit: <NAME> said 2 hours, 58 minutes ago in <CHANNEL>: your quit message is really long)
 226 2012-09-13 03:38:24 <jgarzik> but since I really am spec'ing out a cubesat project, I have to be realistic ;p
 227 2012-09-13 03:38:40 <jgarzik> was only joking about the bitcoin funding part
 228 2012-09-13 03:40:28 whitenissan has joined
 229 2012-09-13 03:41:57 <whitenissan> hey guys, my bitcoin client keeps crashing recently. I have uninstalled, reinstalled, deleted everything from roaming/bitwallet except for wallet.dat, i'm expecting bitcoins to come in. but it can't even stay loaded for long enough to confirm the money i have
 230 2012-09-13 03:42:09 <copumpkin> what kind of a crash is it?
 231 2012-09-13 03:42:32 <whitenissan> c++ runtime
 232 2012-09-13 03:42:36 <jgarzik> whitenissan: can you pastebin your debug.log from the crash?
 233 2012-09-13 03:42:47 <whitenissan> okay, one second
 234 2012-09-13 03:43:15 <whitenissan> 000406f99c  height=185043  work=358101141221929278492 ProcessBlock: ACCEPTED sending getdata: tx b8908052325825b04eaf askfor block 00000000000009f3129d   1347504130000000 askfor block 00000000000007993c0c   1347504130000000 askfor block 00000000000000f0aeb5   1347504130000000 askfor block 00000000000001d8f2cb   1347504130000000 askfor block 00000000000009aee66a   1347504130000000 askfor block 00000000000005eb087c   134750413000
 235 2012-09-13 03:43:21 <denisx> whitenissan: did you try without your wallet.dat?
 236 2012-09-13 03:43:53 <whitenissan> I have not done that. but would that not delete my current infomation causing me to lose my current address?
 237 2012-09-13 03:44:40 kreal has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 238 2012-09-13 03:44:47 <whitenissan> It says "this application has asked runtime to terminate it in an unusual way."
 239 2012-09-13 03:46:35 <whitenissan> oh, there was 2 debug files
 240 2012-09-13 03:46:43 <whitenissan> file wallet.dat has LSN 1228/1501276, past end of log at 332/7394824 Commonly caused by moving a database from one database environment to another without clearing the database LSNs, or by removing all of the log files from a database environment DB_ENV->log_flush: LSN of 1228/1501276 past current end-of-log of 332/7394824 Database environment corrupt; the wrong log files may have been removed or incompatible database files imp
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 640 2012-09-13 13:51:25 <gavinandresen> huzzah!
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 643 2012-09-13 13:52:44 <sipa> even with a self-built qt
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 647 2012-09-13 13:56:55 <gavinandresen> wumpus : did you gitian build Linux?  I see your sigs in rc3-win32/laanwj but not in rc3/
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 653 2012-09-13 14:04:02 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: been pretty busy lately, building rc3 now
 654 2012-09-13 14:04:13 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: thanks
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 674 2012-09-13 14:39:06 <helo> the "This transaction requires a transaction fee of at least..." dialog really needs to allow one to determine exactly what (and to what extent) transaction elements are at fault
 675 2012-09-13 14:39:58 upb is now known as Dcoder_
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 677 2012-09-13 14:42:33 <helo> i guess without a way to manipulate the transaction, the info isn't very pertinent
 678 2012-09-13 14:43:13 <Joric> did we really start blk0003.dat already? http://blockchain.info/charts/blocks-size shows just 2 gigs :-O
 679 2012-09-13 14:45:27 <sipa> Joric: "we" certainly didn't, but if you'd for example remove blkindex.dat without removing the blk00* files, it'll redownload and append
 680 2012-09-13 14:48:46 <Joric> i got blk00001 / blk00002 capped at 2000M and blk0003 (250M) are you telling me it shouldn't be so?
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 684 2012-09-13 14:51:31 <Joric> ok then i'll try to redownload it from sf
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 687 2012-09-13 14:53:00 <sipa> i have around 3GB of block data right now
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 690 2012-09-13 14:54:26 <sipa> Joric: and if you're using 0.7, you can just move the old blk files away, and import them back using -loadblock=filename
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 694 2012-09-13 15:00:53 <BlueMatt> can someone send me a copy of their qt-win32-4.7.4-gitian-r1.zip and bitcoin-qt.exe from 0.7.0rc3, mine doesnt match
 695 2012-09-13 15:01:51 <sipa> uploading
 696 2012-09-13 15:02:56 <sipa> none of our qt builds match, by the way
 697 2012-09-13 15:03:05 <sipa> but bitcoin-qt does
 698 2012-09-13 15:05:45 <sipa> BlueMatt: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/builds/0.7.0rc3/
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 706 2012-09-13 15:17:38 <devrandom> hi tonikt
 707 2012-09-13 15:17:55 <tonikt> hi
 708 2012-09-13 15:17:57 <sipa> devrandom: starting lxc-start within linux32 would help, i suppose
 709 2012-09-13 15:18:06 <BlueMatt> sipa: thanks
 710 2012-09-13 15:18:15 <tonikt> can I help you, devrandom?
 711 2012-09-13 15:18:42 <devrandom> maybe, but I was going to help you with gitian ;)
 712 2012-09-13 15:19:07 <devrandom> tonikt: on-target has a sudo for lxc-start
 713 2012-09-13 15:19:21 <tonikt> :) I edited my last note in the issue - I maneged to make it work after all
 714 2012-09-13 15:19:24 <devrandom> maybe that's the source of the password request?
 715 2012-09-13 15:19:33 <devrandom> are you logged in as ubuntu on host?
 716 2012-09-13 15:19:42 <tonikt> no - different username
 717 2012-09-13 15:20:05 <tonikt> but, if you read my latest comment: I removed the folder, cloned it over again and redone - it it went fine
 718 2012-09-13 15:20:13 <tonikt> so there had to be some trashy leftovers
 719 2012-09-13 15:20:26 <tonikt> and I dont even have them anymore
 720 2012-09-13 15:20:28 <devrandom> hm... doesn't look like github send email on edit
 721 2012-09-13 15:20:46 <devrandom> okay, got it, glad it's working
 722 2012-09-13 15:20:51 cheako has joined
 723 2012-09-13 15:20:52 <tonikt> but the thing with the umount - I have the sleep 5 now...
 724 2012-09-13 15:21:11 <tonikt> so if you want me to try some solution, after removing the sleep - I'd be happy to help
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 726 2012-09-13 15:23:40 * devrandom is lagging
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 728 2012-09-13 15:24:04 * sipa switches to devurandom
 729 2012-09-13 15:24:12 <kinlo> :p
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 734 2012-09-13 15:34:31 <BlueMatt> hmm...so my bitcoin-qt.exe doesnt even get close to matching (and not for any obvious reason)
 735 2012-09-13 15:34:52 <BlueMatt> same base image as last week, but new kvm
 736 2012-09-13 15:34:59 paraipan has joined
 737 2012-09-13 15:35:09 <BlueMatt> if anyone wants a copy, Ill upload it, but I dont have time to beat on this for a while...
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 754 2012-09-13 15:57:28 <devrandom> tonikt: the thing to do is to find out what is the process that holds a reference there for a second or two...
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 756 2012-09-13 15:58:27 <devrandom> perhaps put a os.system('fuser %s/dev' % self.context.chroot_dir)
 757 2012-09-13 15:58:44 <devrandom> instead of the sleep
 758 2012-09-13 15:58:54 <devrandom> and os.system('ps auxww')
 759 2012-09-13 15:58:58 <gmaxwell> Can someone cluestick me, wrt bitcoin-dev, I can't figure out what value matthew sees in being able to request whole levels of the hash tree from peers; and asking him is just getting me lectures on the values of hash trees.
 760 2012-09-13 15:59:53 <devrandom> tonikt: actually fuser -v would do it
 761 2012-09-13 15:59:57 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: Im not subscribed, but specific levels instead of the entire tree? I dont get it
 762 2012-09-13 16:00:24 <tonikt> devrandom: I'm on it..
 763 2012-09-13 16:00:35 <sipa> gmaxwell: i thought i understood, until i read your comment
 764 2012-09-13 16:00:39 <devrandom> tonikt: I'm going to be away the rest of the day.  will research it soon if you don't get around to it
 765 2012-09-13 16:00:52 <tonikt> ok
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 767 2012-09-13 16:01:17 <sipa> gmaxwell: i thought he wanted to do iterative deepening of the tree, skipping subtrees whose hash is already known
 768 2012-09-13 16:01:17 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, it's necessary to run a pruning client without having to process all the transactions in the tree
 769 2012-09-13 16:01:20 <tonikt> devrandom: if I find something - how should I send you the message?
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 772 2012-09-13 16:01:26 <phantomcircuit> but really that's not the best way to do it i dont think
 773 2012-09-13 16:01:35 <sipa> gmaxwell: but that doesn't make sense without having the txids in advance anyway
 774 2012-09-13 16:01:36 <gmaxwell> If you're a full node you need all the txn, so you'd just work by grabbing the lowest level.  If you're an spv node you need the branches connecting txn to the root. (vertically)
 775 2012-09-13 16:02:20 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: no, it's not, you don't need whole levels, just the vertical trace between the txn of interest and the root.
 776 2012-09-13 16:02:38 <gmaxwell> sipa: yea, and if you have all the txn you can compute the tree yourself.
 777 2012-09-13 16:03:01 <sipa> gmaxwell: exactly, so no: i have no idea what it's useful for
 778 2012-09-13 16:03:37 <devrandom> tonikt: on the github bug is probably most reliable
 779 2012-09-13 16:03:48 <tonikt> ok
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 782 2012-09-13 16:06:48 <sipa> gmaxwell: i think he wants to be able to first request 8 hashes, be sure that those indeed constitute parts of the tx merkle tree, and then indivudally download the transactions leading up to those hashes
 783 2012-09-13 16:07:22 <sipa> that is at least meaningful, but i don't see a use case
 784 2012-09-13 16:09:33 <sipa> or maybe: in the case you want to download the different segments from different peers, make sure that the initial step (which cannot be parallellized) needs only to transfer the minimal amount of data transfer
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 786 2012-09-13 16:13:03 * Eliel wonders why bitcoind and bitcoin-qt are not built on top of libcoin (or something similar) yet.
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 790 2012-09-13 16:13:54 <gmaxwell> sipa: hm, I didn't see how to limit the width to do that..  far cheaper to get the txids from each peers. Then build the tree. Then if it doesn't match do checking to figure out whos lying.
 791 2012-09-13 16:14:40 <gmaxwell> But at least that makes sense, but it presumes you're going to fetch the whole tree... a lot more data than just fetching the leaves.
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 793 2012-09-13 16:15:25 <gmaxwell> not quite sure what N-way parallel fetching does for you if you first inflate the data to fetch by M. :-/
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 795 2012-09-13 16:15:45 <sipa> well, typical transactions are around 256 bytes something
 796 2012-09-13 16:15:53 <sipa> a txid or intermediate hash is 32 bytes
 797 2012-09-13 16:16:12 <sipa> so as soon as you have 8 levels, fetching the tree is as much data as fetching just the transactions
 798 2012-09-13 16:16:37 <gmaxwell> a full block is something like 12 levels.
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 801 2012-09-13 16:21:47 <sipa> gmaxwell: not sure if his proposal requires traversing all levels though (haven't looked at it in detail)
 802 2012-09-13 16:22:35 <sipa> gmaxwell: 1) ask 8 level-3 hashes 2) in 8 separate threads, ask the txids used to build the 8 level-3 hashes 3) in the same threads, fetch the transactions you don't have yet
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 806 2012-09-13 16:25:50 <gmaxwell> sipa: there we go, thats reasonable, and doesn't require fetching the whole tree... which is all that I was getting out of it.
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 808 2012-09-13 16:27:25 <sipa> that said, no idea whether that's possible with his proposal
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 813 2012-09-13 16:33:26 <gmaxwell> sipa: I'm pretty sure it wasn't his intent at least, as his protocol has a bunch of stuff to indicate e.g. the deepest level of the tree that a peer knows about. But who knows, there is also a bunch of text about how to handle duplicate transactions.
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 821 2012-09-13 16:43:24 <ciscoftw> rpc command 'getpeerinfo' returns a "startingheight" attribute... what is the significance of this? ...only one of my root seeds has a starting height of zero????
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 825 2012-09-13 16:44:36 <sipa> ciscoftw: how many blocks the node announced
 826 2012-09-13 16:44:41 <sipa> to have
 827 2012-09-13 16:45:10 <ciscoftw> why would any seed nodes NOT have the entire chain?
 828 2012-09-13 16:45:43 <gmaxwell> ciscoftw: 'root seeds' ?
 829 2012-09-13 16:45:58 <ciscoftw> yeah, i knew that wasnt right term :)
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 831 2012-09-13 16:46:34 <sipa> i don't know what you mean
 832 2012-09-13 16:46:47 <sipa> seed nodes aren't special in any way
 833 2012-09-13 16:46:50 <ciscoftw> one sec. tying my example oout now
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 839 2012-09-13 16:49:32 <ciscoftw> 'getinfo' says i have 95 'connections' (limited on my firewall to 100...) ...which are peers connected to me on port 8333 (i am seeding them with blockchain info), however i only have 8 peers via 'getpeerinfo' -from which i get my blockchain info from. question is why would any of the 8 peers that im connected to NOT have a starating height of 0???
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 843 2012-09-13 16:50:51 <sipa> getpeerinfo only returns 8 connections, while getinfo says you have 95?
 844 2012-09-13 16:50:55 <ciscoftw> i believe this to be unreleated... but if someone could tie in an explanation of http://bitcoin.sipa.be/seeds.txt that would be helpful too
 845 2012-09-13 16:51:06 <ciscoftw> yep
 846 2012-09-13 16:51:20 <ciscoftw> of hte 95 connection, all but 9 are via 8333
 847 2012-09-13 16:51:20 <sipa> and i'm not sure why you think getpeerinfo says you anything about which peers you download blockchain info from
 848 2012-09-13 16:51:22 t7 has joined
 849 2012-09-13 16:51:40 <sipa> it's a peer-to-peer gossip network: you get your information from whoever tells you
 850 2012-09-13 16:52:00 cande has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 851 2012-09-13 16:52:09 <sipa> ciscoftw: some are inbound, others are outbound
 852 2012-09-13 16:52:19 <sipa> outbound connections use a random port at your system
 853 2012-09-13 16:52:41 <ciscoftw> random about 1024 :)
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 855 2012-09-13 16:53:10 <sipa> but inbound/outbound has no influence on how that node is dealt with
 856 2012-09-13 16:53:18 <sipa> it's just who made the initial connection
 857 2012-09-13 16:53:38 <ciscoftw> really!!!
 858 2012-09-13 16:53:44 <ciscoftw> that just kinda blew my mind
 859 2012-09-13 16:53:47 <sipa> are you being sarcastic?
 860 2012-09-13 16:53:50 <ciscoftw> no
 861 2012-09-13 16:53:56 <ciscoftw> that is why this was fucking with me so badly
 862 2012-09-13 16:54:07 <ciscoftw> ...but why does getpeerinfo only show 8 connections?
 863 2012-09-13 16:54:24 <ciscoftw> cause it just so happens that i only have 8 outbound connections to 8333
 864 2012-09-13 16:54:38 <ciscoftw> which is what getpeerinfo shows
 865 2012-09-13 16:54:40 <sipa> can you paste your getpeerinfo somewhere?
 866 2012-09-13 16:54:47 <ciscoftw> yeah, one sec
 867 2012-09-13 16:54:49 <gmaxwell> ciscoftw: are you sure it isn't just scrolling off?
 868 2012-09-13 16:54:55 <ciscoftw> :(
 869 2012-09-13 16:55:01 <ciscoftw> let me check that acutally
 870 2012-09-13 16:55:14 <sipa> haha
 871 2012-09-13 16:55:39 <ciscoftw> fuck.
 872 2012-09-13 16:55:45 <gmaxwell> ciscoftw: why did you limit the connections on the firewall? Bitcoin itself will limit connections (to 124). Kinda surprising to hear you have so many in fact.
 873 2012-09-13 16:55:49 <ciscoftw> was scrolling off hte buffer
 874 2012-09-13 16:56:18 <ciscoftw> what is the significance of http://bitcoin.sipa.be/seeds.txt
 875 2012-09-13 16:56:24 <ciscoftw> cause im ranked pretty high :)
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 877 2012-09-13 16:56:48 <gmaxwell> ciscoftw: that doesn't matter.
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 879 2012-09-13 16:57:04 <gmaxwell> (being listed and being good matters, sure)
 880 2012-09-13 16:57:07 <ciscoftw> ok, i understant this, then why is sipa tracking it?
 881 2012-09-13 16:57:22 <sipa> and that seeds.txt list is generated by my crawler, which is served via my dns seeder
 882 2012-09-13 16:57:41 <sipa> being high on that list means my crawler thinks you're a good node
 883 2012-09-13 16:57:46 <sipa> not more, not less :)
 884 2012-09-13 16:57:46 <ciscoftw> dns hardcoded into how bitcoin resolved peers?
 885 2012-09-13 16:58:00 <sipa> yes, there are 4 DNS seeds hardcoded
 886 2012-09-13 16:58:11 <ciscoftw> isnt that a fail?
 887 2012-09-13 16:58:20 <sipa> bitcoin can survive fine without them
 888 2012-09-13 16:58:28 <ciscoftw> gov pwns dns all the time
 889 2012-09-13 16:58:31 <sipa> but it helps finding initial nodes to connect with
 890 2012-09-13 16:58:42 <ciscoftw> is that one attribute that gives NC advantage?
 891 2012-09-13 16:58:50 <sipa> NC?
 892 2012-09-13 16:58:54 <ciscoftw> NameCoin
 893 2012-09-13 16:58:56 <ciscoftw> NMC
 894 2012-09-13 16:59:02 <sipa> namecoin is no different, afaik
 895 2012-09-13 17:00:31 <ciscoftw> thanx for the info sipa/gmaxwell
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 898 2012-09-13 17:00:58 <eian> Hypothetical quesiton about the Satoshi client: Client A is connected to Client B.  A sends a getblocks/getdata but B does not respond.  What is A's defined behavior? Does A sit there waiting or should it relay other messages to B while it waits?
 899 2012-09-13 17:01:25 <sipa> eian: it continues to work as normal
 900 2012-09-13 17:01:43 <eian> I see
 901 2012-09-13 17:01:44 <eian> thanks
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 903 2012-09-13 17:02:24 <Joric> sipa, i downloaded blockchain from eu1, theres no blkindex.dat i don't have it either how i should rebuild it
 904 2012-09-13 17:02:51 <sipa> Joric: bitcoind -loadblock=blk000file
 905 2012-09-13 17:03:13 <sipa> (0.7 only)
 906 2012-09-13 17:03:28 <Joric> there are two dat files will it continue on blk0002?
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 908 2012-09-13 17:03:42 <sipa> then specify -loadblock twice
 909 2012-09-13 17:03:48 <sipa> (in the correct order)
 910 2012-09-13 17:04:08 <Joric> bitcoind -loadblock=blk0001.dat -loadblock=blk0002.dat ? :D
 911 2012-09-13 17:04:20 <sipa> yes, if the blk000* files are in the current directory
 912 2012-09-13 17:04:27 <sipa> do NOT put them in ~/.bitcoin
 913 2012-09-13 17:04:39 <Joric> ah
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 924 2012-09-13 17:13:30 <TD> god evening
 925 2012-09-13 17:13:32 <TD> good
 926 2012-09-13 17:15:03 <sipa> hi there
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 933 2012-09-13 17:22:04 <Joric> <Cory> Still 0.05 BTC hidden at http://bitcoinclock.com/
 934 2012-09-13 17:22:57 <Joric> 'Cory was here.' hashes to an address with 0.1 BTC but they were redeemed 64 blocks ago... any clues? i know gmaxwell likes that
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 940 2012-09-13 17:28:51 <helo> you mean 'Cory was here.' can be used as the seed in electrum or multibit to generate the private key?
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 942 2012-09-13 17:30:43 <Joric> helo, sha256('Cory was here.') -> 145Sph2eiNGp5WVAkdJKg9Z2PMhTGSS9iT
 943 2012-09-13 17:32:55 <helo> interesting sha256 you have there ;)
 944 2012-09-13 17:33:21 <Joric> yeah i skipped a few steps
 945 2012-09-13 17:33:21 <Diablo-D3> I assume thats after bitcoin address encoding
 946 2012-09-13 17:33:43 <lianj> Bitcoin.pubkey_to_address(Bitcoin.regenerate_public_key(Digest::SHA256.hexdigest("Cory was here."))) #=> 145Sph2eiNGp5WVAkdJKg9Z2PMhTGSS9iT
 947 2012-09-13 17:33:57 <Diablo-D3> lolperl
 948 2012-09-13 17:34:11 <Diablo-D3> wait, thats not perl
 949 2012-09-13 17:34:13 <Diablo-D3> wtf is that?
 950 2012-09-13 17:34:19 <lianj> ruby
 951 2012-09-13 17:34:24 <Diablo-D3> fucking ruby
 952 2012-09-13 17:34:38 <Diablo-D3> the language written by hipsters for hipsters
 953 2012-09-13 17:34:38 <Joric> zhou tong's favorite
 954 2012-09-13 17:34:44 <helo> lianj: right, thanks :)
 955 2012-09-13 17:34:59 <lianj> Diablo-D3: sure…
 956 2012-09-13 17:35:01 <Diablo-D3> Joric: zhou tong? oh, you mean nefario, thats what hes going by now
 957 2012-09-13 17:35:23 <helo> how many people are making rainbow tables using that?
 958 2012-09-13 17:35:37 <helo> well i guess the right question is "is anyone of you..."
 959 2012-09-13 17:35:39 <Joric> yeah he's quite nefarious
 960 2012-09-13 17:35:47 <Diablo-D3> Joric: he was pirate too, I bet
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 978 2012-09-13 17:53:51 <OneEyed> lianj: the ruby library looks cool!
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 982 2012-09-13 17:58:45 <OneEyed> Does coinbase always have to be the first transaction in a block?
 983 2012-09-13 18:00:33 <lianj> yes
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1003 2012-09-13 18:20:52 <eco_> 0.7.0rc1 means ? link ? is test?
1004 2012-09-13 18:21:20 lggr has joined
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1006 2012-09-13 18:21:31 <sipa> rc = release candidate
1007 2012-09-13 18:21:55 <sipa> it's a prerelease, and if no showstopper bugs are found, it gets released as 0.7.0 final
1008 2012-09-13 18:22:06 <eco_> thanks
1009 2012-09-13 18:22:12 stalled has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1010 2012-09-13 18:22:19 <sipa> also, rc2 already exists, and rc3 is almost there
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1012 2012-09-13 18:23:54 <eco_> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=108782.0 open coin dot com ? related bitcoin?
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1016 2012-09-13 18:26:21 <sipa> read the thread; nobody knows more than what is said there
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1022 2012-09-13 18:36:03 <gmaxwell> I .. can .. not... believe that he responded to me explaining what merkle tress are as though I were a child.
1023 2012-09-13 18:37:37 <gavinandresen> ... he even drew a nice picture...
1024 2012-09-13 18:38:29 <gmaxwell> I know! ahhhh! it is nice. And the explination seems fine and good.
1025 2012-09-13 18:38:37 <gmaxwell> And was entirely not what I needed. :'(
1026 2012-09-13 18:39:01 <gavinandresen> I've been kinda horrified by his cbitcoin posts on the forums.  If I believed in regulation, I'd make him get a Coding License before going any further....
1027 2012-09-13 18:39:29 <jeremias> lol
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1031 2012-09-13 18:40:17 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: I've tried to refrain from saying things like that in public. :) God knows what would be said about me if people weren't so polite. :) But I've had some real challenges communicating with him, not sure why.
1032 2012-09-13 18:41:05 <gavinandresen> We can all be idiots SOMETIMES, but certain people are more consistent about it.
1033 2012-09-13 18:41:57 <sipa> he sure is persistent, though
1034 2012-09-13 18:42:00 <sipa> in his work
1035 2012-09-13 18:42:27 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1036 2012-09-13 18:43:30 <gmaxwell> Thats powerful, if usefully directed.
1037 2012-09-13 18:43:40 <sipa> i'll answer
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1044 2012-09-13 18:52:24 <eian> who are you guys talking about?
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1049 2012-09-13 18:59:03 <gmaxwell> MatthewLM; wrt a thread on bitcoin-dev.
1050 2012-09-13 18:59:19 root2 has quit ()
1051 2012-09-13 18:59:33 <gmaxwell> He's proposed a bunch of protocol messages for doing block downloads; I think it's rather complicated, and I'm trying to figure out what its supposted to accomplish over something much simpler, and not having much luck.
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1059 2012-09-13 19:11:40 <eian> :P
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1072 2012-09-13 19:38:39 <BlueMatt> found the bug in my bitoinj impl of hal's faster secp256k1, tuns out it was a bug in bouncycastle's multiply+add method that I copied (luckily it wont effect ecdsa...)
1073 2012-09-13 19:39:10 <BlueMatt> sadly, the speedup for me is essentially nothing, but it probably is the fault of the still-slow multiply-and-add method Im still using...guess that goes next
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1076 2012-09-13 19:43:33 <diki> BlueMatt:where is your implementation located at?
1077 2012-09-13 19:43:58 <BlueMatt> its not pushed yet (and the code is about 50% comments of slower and test implementations...)
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1083 2012-09-13 19:55:59 <test___> hi, how can i get a bitcoin adress? using a windows client is the only way?
1084 2012-09-13 19:56:05 OneFixt has joined
1085 2012-09-13 19:57:03 <sipa> go to receive addresses, and click new
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1087 2012-09-13 19:59:04 <test___> sipa: im using diablominer, how do i get an address, not using windows client
1088 2012-09-13 20:01:10 <sipa> depends what software you want to use to manage your wallet
1089 2012-09-13 20:01:30 <sipa> see http://bitcoin.org/clients.html
1090 2012-09-13 20:01:38 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1091 2012-09-13 20:02:11 <test___> thanks a lot sipa
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1095 2012-09-13 20:10:46 <diki> I recently noticed that I didn't know why ever block hash had leading zeroes(big-endian). Would be nice if someone clarifies.
1096 2012-09-13 20:11:13 <diki> s/ever/every
1097 2012-09-13 20:11:33 <sipa> to satisfy the proof of work requirement
1098 2012-09-13 20:11:47 <diki> Which means?
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1100 2012-09-13 20:12:26 <gmaxwell> to assemble a mighty army
1101 2012-09-13 20:12:38 <sipa> it's just some criterion that is hard to satisfy, so the fact that found blocks do have leading zero bits, proves that work was spent on creating it
1102 2012-09-13 20:13:07 <diki> Ok, that makes sense.
1103 2012-09-13 20:15:10 <Joric> cbitcoin ftw! if it's written by linus torwalds
1104 2012-09-13 20:15:22 <BlueMatt> do we currently allow using obscenely large pubkeys?
1105 2012-09-13 20:15:44 <BlueMatt> sipa: as the person doing the canonical sig stuff ^
1106 2012-09-13 20:16:09 <diki> Joric:I like the idea of cbitcoin, but the author seems to be inexperienced when it comes to windows, apparently. This does not mean he wont be able to add windows support.
1107 2012-09-13 20:16:21 <Joric> eww camelcase in C
1108 2012-09-13 20:16:25 <BlueMatt> eg ima use 10240-bit ecdsa for even better security!!!111one (and in the process DoS the network)
1109 2012-09-13 20:16:26 <Joric> just checked it out
1110 2012-09-13 20:16:51 <sipa> BlueMatt: i think any bytestring not (0x00, 0x02/0x03 + 32 bytes or 0x04/0x06/0x07 + 64 bytes) will be considered an invalid pubkey
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1112 2012-09-13 20:17:20 <BlueMatt> sipa: so we currently allow it, but its not canonical in the current impl of canonical sigchecking?
1113 2012-09-13 20:17:31 <sipa> by invalid i mean openssl invalid
1114 2012-09-13 20:17:38 <sipa> as CKey is hardcoded to be secp256k1
1115 2012-09-13 20:17:40 <BlueMatt> oh..hmmm
1116 2012-09-13 20:17:44 <BlueMatt> yea, yea
1117 2012-09-13 20:18:00 <BlueMatt> dur, sorry
1118 2012-09-13 20:18:54 <Joric> well not camelcase more like capitalized words but why even use C prefix if there are no classes
1119 2012-09-13 20:19:40 <Joric> ah CB must be CBitcoin
1120 2012-09-13 20:21:04 <Joric> 'Filenames should begin with CB. Functions, types and variables with linker visibility outside the library should begin with CB'
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1124 2012-09-13 20:28:32 <diki> Joric:Vanitygen for instance uses vg as a prefix for everything.
1125 2012-09-13 20:29:40 <Joric> it's fine while it's lower case
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1134 2012-09-13 20:36:17 <sipa> i'm sure there are many reasonable criticisms on code, but if the best you've got is complaining about the aestethics of upper- vs lowercase ...
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1139 2012-09-13 20:49:58 <Luke-Jr> lol
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1149 2012-09-13 21:11:38 <MC-Eeepc> Hard drives traditionally run on air, but HGST claims that using helium, which is seven times less dense than air, will reduce power consumption by 23 percent while extending capacity by around 40 percent.
1150 2012-09-13 21:11:49 <MC-Eeepc> so there is still r&d going on for spinning storage
1151 2012-09-13 21:12:26 <sipa> of course, for many workloads spinning disks have far better performamce per price than SSD
1152 2012-09-13 21:13:55 <fiesh> I kind of wonder about the applications of fast scsi hdds though
1153 2012-09-13 21:14:17 <fiesh> who would but a spinning sas disk, and for what application?
1154 2012-09-13 21:14:56 <gmaxwell> fiesh: sequential writes.
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1156 2012-09-13 21:15:34 <gmaxwell> DB transaction logs, for example. Archiving your spying on the entire internets, for another.
1157 2012-09-13 21:16:30 <fiesh> I thought even for sequential writes, sdds were better now, but maybe I'm wrong
1158 2012-09-13 21:16:49 <fiesh> and surely the write cycles aren't really an issue any more
1159 2012-09-13 21:17:17 <gmaxwell> fiesh: note that sipa said price performance.
1160 2012-09-13 21:17:26 <MC-Eeepc> i cant believe moores law caught up for the ability to monitor and filter and store the entire internet
1161 2012-09-13 21:17:29 <gmaxwell> They're also very cheap per capacity.
1162 2012-09-13 21:17:35 <fiesh> oh yes, that's why I refer to sas disks that are very expensive normally
1163 2012-09-13 21:17:38 <MC-Eeepc> i suppose it was inevitable, once traffic growth slowed down
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1165 2012-09-13 21:17:55 <fiesh> cheapo sata 3.5" disks, obviously much better for many things
1166 2012-09-13 21:18:18 <gmaxwell> MC-Eeepc: Communications speeds have always grown much slower than moores law. Plus internet spying is based on sampling and automatic targeting, so they're not constantly logging everything.
1167 2012-09-13 21:18:34 <MC-Eeepc> not everything
1168 2012-09-13 21:18:49 <MC-Eeepc> but that datacenter in the desert is awfuly large
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1181 2012-09-13 21:25:12 <freewil> i think they do log everything
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1183 2012-09-13 21:25:20 <freewil> then they sample from that
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