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 21 2012-09-22 00:47:36 <Dragonsangel> Heya, I am looking for a comparison tool to compare hashes made from UTF-16 string? Anyone know any sites that do them? I only seem to find UTF-8 versions
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 33 2012-09-22 01:06:01 <Anonymous-man> Donate Bitcoins to the cause of Anonymous! http://pastebin.com/r56SVjBs
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 71 2012-09-22 02:30:22 * Greee New bitcoin pool server 0% fees pm for details.
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 74 2012-09-22 02:37:15 <bctrashcan> Ok, im wondering how to modify the bitcoin client so that i can use it for my own personal network of peers... is there a way to use bitcoin to make a seperate block chain
 75 2012-09-22 02:37:46 <Luke-Jr> bctrashcan: those are called "scams"
 76 2012-09-22 02:38:06 <bctrashcan> why is that a scam?
 77 2012-09-22 02:38:35 <Luke-Jr> bctrashcan: 99% of cases someone is usign it to run a scam
 78 2012-09-22 02:39:21 <Luke-Jr> generally, it's pretty safe to say if someone isn't going to run a scam with it, they already know what they need to do and don't ask ;)
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 80 2012-09-22 02:39:51 <bctrashcan> ah makes sense i guess....well my goal here is to create a decentralized currency for my friends, we arent gonna scam each other....it dosent have to be bitcoin in any case, anything secure would work ya know
 81 2012-09-22 02:40:05 <Luke-Jr> bctrashcan: why?
 82 2012-09-22 02:40:23 <bctrashcan> we dont wanna deal with transactions for wiring money and the like
 83 2012-09-22 02:40:33 <bctrashcan> just all the damn fees
 84 2012-09-22 02:40:39 <Luke-Jr> so use bitcoin
 85 2012-09-22 02:41:05 <bctrashcan> haha why do you not think this is a good idea
 86 2012-09-22 02:41:19 <bctrashcan> better question why is this a bad idea
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 88 2012-09-22 02:43:07 <gmaxwell> bctrashcan: bitcoin's not secure when you only use it among a few people, for one.
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 90 2012-09-22 02:43:41 <gmaxwell> one of you could simply get a bunch of hash power and rewrite the chain. And if you trust your friends not to do that, might as well just trade messages with balances; no need for the complexity of bitcoin.
 91 2012-09-22 02:44:36 <bctrashcan> thats good point...i was hoping there was a way around that
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 93 2012-09-22 02:44:45 <bctrashcan> thank you
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191 2012-09-22 06:22:25 <jgarzik> gah!
192 2012-09-22 06:22:41 <jgarzik> does anyone have a good example, code or wiki or forum post, for building a multisig transaction?
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195 2012-09-22 06:22:59 <jgarzik> hopefully some RPC examples
196 2012-09-22 06:24:01 <Luke-Jr> I'm pretty sure gmaxwell had a text/plain example
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198 2012-09-22 06:29:05 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: you do?
199 2012-09-22 06:30:26 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: Specifically, I am interested in an atomic swap:  Alice wants 100 BTC, Bob wants a 1-satoshi colored coin.  Transaction should not proceed, unless both parties are 100% satisfied.
200 2012-09-22 06:30:47 <jgarzik> Bob must send the 100 BTC, and Alice must transfer to Bob the 1-satoshi colored coin.
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202 2012-09-22 06:31:07 <Luke-Jr> http://people.xiph.org/~greg/signdemo.txt <-- not multisig, but might be what I was thinking of :/
203 2012-09-22 06:33:57 <Luke-Jr> maybe there's another one in that directory that isn't in my history anymore, but it has indexes disabled
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210 2012-09-22 06:42:10 <jgarzik> maybe the magic lies within SIGHASH
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227 2012-09-22 07:02:54 <jgarzik> hmm, yeah, I cannot see how to require txout #0 -> pubkey A, txout #1+ -> pubkey B, requiring both A and B's signature for approval of the entire txout set
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235 2012-09-22 07:24:38 <jgarzik> made a post
236 2012-09-22 07:24:46 <jgarzik> Atomic coin swapping? - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112007.0
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296 2012-09-22 09:30:16 <amiller> awww yeah, i got gevent to play nicely with ipython, now i have badass interactive concurrency
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314 2012-09-22 10:33:46 <Joric> hey devs
315 2012-09-22 10:33:48 <Joric> ;;bc,totalbc
316 2012-09-22 10:33:48 <gribble> 9999950.00000000
317 2012-09-22 10:34:04 <Joric> we are one block away from 10,000,000 coins
318 2012-09-22 10:34:14 <Joric> ;;bc,totalbc
319 2012-09-22 10:34:16 <gribble> 10000000.00000000
320 2012-09-22 10:34:24 <Joric> hooray!!
321 2012-09-22 10:34:32 <diki> congrats!
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366 2012-09-22 12:10:22 <c_k> wow thats quite an accomplishment, congratulations for keeping the network going guys :)
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371 2012-09-22 12:15:38 <Diablo-D3> what the fuck
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373 2012-09-22 12:16:21 <Diablo-D3> I swear Im going to go into ##freenode and just post a link to a jpg of my erect penis.
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400 2012-09-22 13:08:22 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #72: FAILURE in 4 hr 13 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/72/
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416 2012-09-22 13:44:40 <slush> jgarzik: thanks for ZeroAccess pdf.
417 2012-09-22 13:45:14 <slush> jgarzik: Actually I don't believe that any mining pool can handle 500k+ of CPU miners, so their calculations are out of reality.
418 2012-09-22 13:46:00 <slush> well, to be exact - 500k+ of getwork-based cpu miners
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426 2012-09-22 13:52:29 <gmaxwell> 23:23 <@jgarzik> gmaxwell: Specifically, I am interested in an atomic swap:  Alice wants 100 BTC, Bob wants a 1-satoshi colored coin.  Transaction should not proceed,  unless both parties are 100% satisfied.
427 2012-09-22 13:52:46 <gmaxwell> You just author a joint transaction (e.g. each party provides an input). And do the negoiation for that out of band.
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429 2012-09-22 13:54:33 <gmaxwell> You could also pay into two escrows, each mediated by pubkey+secret_user1+secret_user2 (different pubkey for each user). This isn't atomic, but it means one escrow can't be redeemed without revealing the secrets required to redeem the other.
430 2012-09-22 13:55:09 <gmaxwell> on the question of escrow examples; here is an example: https://people.xiph.org/~greg/escrowexample.txt
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444 2012-09-22 14:17:27 <gmaxwell> huh ... just changed one of my nodes to current git and it's only connecting to other nodes on my lan now, though it has quite a few addnoded peers
445 2012-09-22 14:17:30 <gmaxwell> e.g.
446 2012-09-22 14:17:30 <gmaxwell> 09/22/12 14:07:42 disconnecting node 69.64.34.118:8333
447 2012-09-22 14:17:33 <gmaxwell> 09/22/12 14:07:42 connected 69.64.34.118:8333
448 2012-09-22 14:17:35 <gmaxwell> 09/22/12 14:07:42 send version message: version 60002, blocks=200026, us=0.0.0.0:0, them=69.64.34.118:8333, peer=69.64.34.118:8333
449 2012-09-22 14:17:38 <gmaxwell> 09/22/12 14:07:42 socket closed
450 2012-09-22 14:17:52 <gmaxwell> or I should say, only staying connected to.
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455 2012-09-22 14:22:05 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I'm running next-test I made 2 days ago, and it has 39 peers. So either unrelated to code or very recent I think.
456 2012-09-22 14:22:20 <Luke-Jr> (and if very recent - something that wasn't a pullreq 2 days ago? O.o)
457 2012-09-22 14:23:46 <gmaxwell> yea, switched back to 0.7.0, no change must be something specific to this node.
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461 2012-09-22 14:39:33 <slush> Is there any simple way how to check how many % of current blocks are version 2 ?
462 2012-09-22 14:39:57 eroot has joined
463 2012-09-22 14:40:38 <eroot> thanks BCBot, you're a good bot for telling me that
464 2012-09-22 14:40:45 <eroot> here, have a virtual bone
465 2012-09-22 14:41:07 <eroot> I'm looking for a Bitcoin implementation in Haskell that sipa told me about during the conference
466 2012-09-22 14:41:15 <eroot> does anyone know anything about that?
467 2012-09-22 14:42:07 <eroot> Haskell doesn't get the love she deserves around here
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469 2012-09-22 14:44:11 ZenInTexas has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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471 2012-09-22 14:45:52 <gmaxwell> eroot: purecoin
472 2012-09-22 14:46:31 <eroot> thanks gmaxwell!
473 2012-09-22 14:46:32 boupitch has joined
474 2012-09-22 14:47:19 <eroot> can someone tell Google about purecoin?
475 2012-09-22 14:47:24 <eroot> I can't find it!
476 2012-09-22 14:48:15 <eroot> I was searching for purecoin by the way, since I kind of remembered that
477 2012-09-22 14:48:40 <gmaxwell> eroot: search the channel logs. :P
478 2012-09-22 14:48:48 <eroot> not a bad idea
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480 2012-09-22 14:50:55 Zarutian has joined
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482 2012-09-22 14:51:40 <eroot> I found a darcs repo around
483 2012-09-22 14:52:17 <gmaxwell> eroot: and thats all there is.
484 2012-09-22 14:53:20 Zarutian has joined
485 2012-09-22 14:53:38 <eroot> yes!
486 2012-09-22 14:53:40 <eroot> great success!
487 2012-09-22 14:54:07 <eroot> now I'm in for a treat of Bitcoin expressed with beautiful functional purity
488 2012-09-22 14:54:26 <eroot> be back
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511 2012-09-22 15:43:04 <gmaxwell> sipa: ultraprune here's getting me 16.5166 minutes from 0 to 193000, 32.9 minutes from 193000 to 200032; from a node across gige. The half hour after the highest checkpoint was totally CPU limited... so the parallel signature checking should speed things up a good bit.
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533 2012-09-22 16:18:07 <sharp> Hello
534 2012-09-22 16:18:18 sharp is now known as Guest95963
535 2012-09-22 16:18:29 Guest95963 is now known as btcsharp
536 2012-09-22 16:19:10 <btcsharp> I was looking at BitcoinGUI::closeEvent(QCloseEvent *event) (in bitcoingui.cpp, around line 608)
537 2012-09-22 16:19:34 Someguy123 has quit (Changing host)
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539 2012-09-22 16:19:36 <btcsharp> why isn't the window closed if it doesn't enter the ifs?
540 2012-09-22 16:20:28 <btcsharp> wait... no problem... comprehended. Close != destroy
541 2012-09-22 16:20:30 <btcsharp> thanks
542 2012-09-22 16:20:31 PK has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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545 2012-09-22 16:23:18 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: a concrete smartcoin example, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112007.msg1212356#msg1212356
546 2012-09-22 16:24:20 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: use sighash_all.
547 2012-09-22 16:24:31 <gmaxwell> that answers all your questions, I think.
548 2012-09-22 16:25:04 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: where is that enforced in SignatureHash()?  I am completely stupid here and don't see it.
549 2012-09-22 16:25:28 <jgarzik> clearly it skips both SIGHASH_NONE and SIGHASH_SINGLE branches
550 2012-09-22 16:25:40 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
551 2012-09-22 16:26:33 <jgarzik> by the not-blanking out of txouts, I suppose?
552 2012-09-22 16:27:09 <gmaxwell> Correct. They're fixed before the signing begins.
553 2012-09-22 16:28:36 PK has joined
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555 2012-09-22 16:29:15 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: hmmm, OK, I can see how that protects the first round.  but doesn't filling in the second signature break the first, then?
556 2012-09-22 16:30:10 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: the steps should be (1) agree what the txn should look like, (2) one side writes the whole txn and signs it, (3) other side signs it.
557 2012-09-22 16:30:29 lggr has joined
558 2012-09-22 16:31:04 <gmaxwell> so the only thing that changes after the initial drafting is the signatures, which are the only thing not included in signatures.
559 2012-09-22 16:35:01 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
560 2012-09-22 16:35:02 btcsharp has quit (Quit: Page closed)
561 2012-09-22 16:35:27 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: yes.  in that post, your "(2)" == "round 1".  your "(3)" == "round 2"
562 2012-09-22 16:36:52 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: so txin 0's scriptSig should be <CK> and not null, implying that the creator of the incomplete TX requires the full pubkey for the smartcoin (CK)?
563 2012-09-22 16:37:49 <gmaxwell> You don't need the pubkey. You need to know what txin you'll be spending though.
564 2012-09-22 16:37:50 <jgarzik> thus removing the signature from scriptSig, which retaining the pubkey
565 2012-09-22 16:38:01 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: pubkey is not included in hash?
566 2012-09-22 16:38:17 <jgarzik> 100% of scriptSig is ignored in the hash?
567 2012-09-22 16:39:15 <gmaxwell> Yes.
568 2012-09-22 16:40:02 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: ok, thanks, I think I get it now
569 2012-09-22 16:40:10 <jgarzik> it sounds like SIGHASH_ALL will be the solution.
570 2012-09-22 16:40:11 <gmaxwell> Care to make a join transaction on testnet? I've done a couple of these jointly authored txn with people... you just need to know the txins you're spending and where you're paying when writing the transaction.
571 2012-09-22 16:40:32 lggr has joined
572 2012-09-22 16:41:06 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: making the transaction is easy...  just did not understand how to prevent either party from maliciously reordering within the tx
573 2012-09-22 16:41:32 TD has joined
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575 2012-09-22 16:42:29 <gmaxwell> Single would also get the pinning you want, but I didn't see a need for the increase malleability of single for what you described so far.
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586 2012-09-22 17:04:50 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: updated https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112007.msg1212356#msg1212356
587 2012-09-22 17:05:18 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: will use that as a reference, as it provides a concrete, realistic [hopefully] working example
588 2012-09-22 17:05:51 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: if you have time to give it a mental review, that would be most appreciated.  it might form the basis of distributed bonds.
589 2012-09-22 17:07:27 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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593 2012-09-22 17:14:36 <agricocb> HKyn7w1y9L
594 2012-09-22 17:14:49 <phantomcircuit> cool story bro
595 2012-09-22 17:15:00 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, ^
596 2012-09-22 17:15:02 lggr has joined
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598 2012-09-22 17:15:22 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: ?
599 2012-09-22 17:15:47 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, seems like some strange spam
600 2012-09-22 17:15:59 <phantomcircuit> possibly it's encrypted message nobody can read?
601 2012-09-22 17:16:17 <phantomcircuit> just pinging only op i can see in case he goes wild
602 2012-09-22 17:17:25 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: has that happened more than just this once?
603 2012-09-22 17:17:27 eroot has joined
604 2012-09-22 17:17:46 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, i've seen stuff like that before from various people
605 2012-09-22 17:17:51 <phantomcircuit> iirc it was in this chan
606 2012-09-22 17:18:08 <Diablo-D3> okay so
607 2012-09-22 17:18:15 <Diablo-D3> I am going to find out where shuttlecock lives
608 2012-09-22 17:18:22 <Diablo-D3> break in
609 2012-09-22 17:18:29 <Diablo-D3> and take a piss on his kitchen table
610 2012-09-22 17:19:24 tower has quit (Disconnected by services)
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612 2012-09-22 17:20:59 <jgarzik> sometimes things are so darned subtle
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614 2012-09-22 17:21:22 <jgarzik> I never wrote any pynode code specifically for SIGHASH_ALL... yet it validates correctly
615 2012-09-22 17:21:41 tower has quit (Changing host)
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617 2012-09-22 17:21:44 <jgarzik> (by matching bitcoind's behavior)
618 2012-09-22 17:22:08 maaku has joined
619 2012-09-22 17:22:18 <Diablo-D3> lol
620 2012-09-22 17:22:25 <Diablo-D3> dont you love it when code works even when it shouldnt?
621 2012-09-22 17:22:40 <phantomcircuit> BLACK MAGIK
622 2012-09-22 17:22:47 <phantomcircuit> also i cant go on https here
623 2012-09-22 17:22:51 <phantomcircuit> stupid UK
624 2012-09-22 17:22:55 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: no
625 2012-09-22 17:22:58 <Diablo-D3> voodoo and deep magic
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627 2012-09-22 17:25:37 <amiller> jgarzik, gmaxwell, your atomic swaps still don't work
628 2012-09-22 17:25:48 <amiller> first of all could you point to an explanation of how smartcoin works i can use as a reference
629 2012-09-22 17:26:12 <graingert> phantomcircuit: why does UK prevent https?
630 2012-09-22 17:26:39 <phantomcircuit> graingert, public wifi
631 2012-09-22 17:26:53 lggr has joined
632 2012-09-22 17:26:54 <phantomcircuit> i guess they dont want people doing naughty things over it or something
633 2012-09-22 17:27:20 <jgarzik> amiller: a smartcoin is a bitcoin txout, the holder of which is imbued with special properties external to bitcoin ("ownership of a house")
634 2012-09-22 17:27:59 <jgarzik> amiller: smartcoin is my name for colored coins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=106449.msg1203918#msg1203918
635 2012-09-22 17:28:01 <amiller> the problem has to do with the fact that smartcoins are not enforced directly by the blockchain, so there are attacks on the atomic swap where the second signer tampers with the external properties before committing the transaction
636 2012-09-22 17:28:10 <graingert> phantomcircuit: lolwat they banned https ?
637 2012-09-22 17:28:21 <graingert> phantomcircuit: you sure you're not being SSL stripped
638 2012-09-22 17:28:48 <jgarzik> amiller: not really
639 2012-09-22 17:29:06 <jgarzik> amiller: the second signer is still at the mercy of the issuer for the majority of the external properties
640 2012-09-22 17:29:32 <phantomcircuit> graingert, amir says it never works here
641 2012-09-22 17:29:46 <phantomcircuit> graingert, iono possible
642 2012-09-22 17:29:47 <graingert> what's the URI
643 2012-09-22 17:29:51 <phantomcircuit> wouldn't fall for it though lawl
644 2012-09-22 17:29:58 <phantomcircuit> https://support.intersango.com/
645 2012-09-22 17:30:09 <phantomcircuit> trying to do support tickets waiting for the train
646 2012-09-22 17:30:17 <graingert> lol
647 2012-09-22 17:30:23 <graingert> oh
648 2012-09-22 17:30:29 <graingert> "UK Transfers 	Unavailable. "
649 2012-09-22 17:30:31 <graingert> wat
650 2012-09-22 17:30:37 <graingert> is metro bank dead then?
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654 2012-09-22 17:32:16 <graingert> phantomcircuit: ^
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657 2012-09-22 17:34:27 <jgarzik> amiller: I agree that it helps the task greatly, to include the bond hash inside the transaction
658 2012-09-22 17:35:03 <jgarzik> amiller: a bond would thus be a smartcoin, with added "bond <HASH>" OP_DROP metadata
659 2012-09-22 17:36:46 <amiller> jgarzik, yeah, what's required for a bond isn't really any different than what's required for a colored coin so if you can do one, i'm satisfied you can do the other
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661 2012-09-22 17:38:04 <jgarzik> amiller: that metadata re-introduces the problem of OP_DROP data correctness, of course.  So it's a tradeoff between a purely colored coin solution, or one where errors may be introduced in the transfer, if bond buyer+seller both agree on the same error-in-metdata set.
662 2012-09-22 17:38:47 <jgarzik> thus buyer+seller must agree to burn the bond (by corrupting the metadata)
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665 2012-09-22 17:39:13 <amiller> maybe the reason why it seems to work okay is that the conservation rule for the colored coins is enforced by pegging the colored coin units to the bitcoin units
666 2012-09-22 17:39:19 <jgarzik> (or, in a more likely example, jointly be slack about validating the metadata)
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686 2012-09-22 17:52:04 <graingert> amiller: colord coins?
687 2012-09-22 17:52:32 <amiller> graingert, yeah, see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=106449.msg1203918#msg1203918
688 2012-09-22 17:52:48 <amiller> the idea is that you externally associate some meaning with the coins in a particular unspent output
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691 2012-09-22 17:53:42 <amiller> and then you trace those coins throughout the blockchain, applying some external-to-the-blockchain validation rules, such that the colored coins are conserved or destroyed but not increased
692 2012-09-22 17:54:41 <graingert> cool
693 2012-09-22 17:54:46 <graingert> but I doubt I'd use it
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696 2012-09-22 17:56:02 <amiller> graingert, unless there's a technical problem that makes them difficult to use, they're great for expressing things like bonds and scrips and other 'overlay' currencies
697 2012-09-22 17:56:10 <gmaxwell> 'great'
698 2012-09-22 17:57:22 <amiller> niftycoins
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725 2012-09-22 18:42:28 <amiller> jgarzik, brief question about the http-json-rpc protocol in pynode and pybond
726 2012-09-22 18:42:59 <amiller> you said at one point that you're happy with httpsrv because it's compatible with something else, i originally thought you meant that it was compatible with the bitcoin node format
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728 2012-09-22 18:44:43 <amiller> i'm just having trouble keeping track of the different protocols and what their names are i guess
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734 2012-09-22 18:49:28 <amiller> nvm, i think i was just confused about the rpc protocol vs the p2p protocol, a NodeConn object connects to a p2p bitcoin node, whereas the httpsrv/RPCRequestHandler is compatible with bitcoin's http json rpc
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742 2012-09-22 19:02:32 <amiller> jgarzik, i'm not sure what to do to test the http-json-rpc part of pynode, is the idea that i should be able to interact with a pynode by using the ordinary bitcoin rpc client?
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760 2012-09-22 19:38:09 <BlueMattBot> Yippie, build fixed!
761 2012-09-22 19:38:10 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #73: FIXED in 6 hr 29 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/73/
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804 2012-09-22 20:55:21 <jgarzik> amiller: correct
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807 2012-09-22 20:57:32 <jgarzik> amiller: curl --user myusername --data-binary '{"jsonrpc": "1.0", "id":"curltest", "method": "getinfo", "params": [] }' http://127.0.0.1:8332/
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839 2012-09-22 22:12:49 <chmod755> any devs around?
840 2012-09-22 22:14:49 tsche has joined
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842 2012-09-22 22:17:28 <gmaxwell> chmod755: don't PM people for tech support please; not unless you're going to start cutting them a paycheck. :P
843 2012-09-22 22:17:32 <gmaxwell> Ask your question in here.
844 2012-09-22 22:17:39 <chmod755> lol
845 2012-09-22 22:17:51 <BlueMatt> though its probably best if you do start cutting them a paycheck
846 2012-09-22 22:18:11 <gmaxwell> #1 rule of IRC is don't ask to ask.  (comes after rule zero which is about flooding goatse)
847 2012-09-22 22:18:43 <gmaxwell> chmod755: as to your question—  bitcoin from git compiles cleanly for me.  What source did you fetch and how are you compiling it?
848 2012-09-22 22:19:04 <gmaxwell> and on what system? and have you compiled bitcoin before?
849 2012-09-22 22:19:19 <chmod755> gmaxwell: source: github
850 2012-09-22 22:19:26 <gmaxwell> ah. and are you compiling bitcoin-qt or bitcoind?
851 2012-09-22 22:19:56 <gmaxwell> chmod755: the /bitcoin/bitcoin repository?  (there are a ton of random forks on github; at least once I ran into someone who was building some crazy fork  'github')
852 2012-09-22 22:20:01 <chmod755> yes
853 2012-09-22 22:20:51 <chmod755> bitcoin-qt with USE_UPNP=1 USE_IPV6=1 USE_DBUS=1 USE_QRCODE=1
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859 2012-09-22 22:22:46 <chmod755> os: trisquel, gcc 4.6.1
860 2012-09-22 22:23:24 <gmaxwell> okay, haven't build -qt today, perhaps that is broken.
861 2012-09-22 22:23:34 <gmaxwell> (though I'd expect jenkins to bitch)
862 2012-09-22 22:24:21 <BlueMatt> jenkins seems to indicate that all is good in master-land
863 2012-09-22 22:24:37 <BlueMatt> chmod755: whats your error?
864 2012-09-22 22:24:47 <chmod755> BlueMatt: CTxDB has initializer but incomplete type
865 2012-09-22 22:25:25 <chmod755> in transactiondesc.cpp
866 2012-09-22 22:25:45 <chmod755> line 239
867 2012-09-22 22:26:30 <BlueMatt> odd, I built bitcoin-qt like an hour ago on my machine too
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869 2012-09-22 22:27:39 <chmod755> src/qt/transactiondesc.cpp:239:23: error: variable ‘CTxDB txdb’ has initializer but incomplete type <<
870 2012-09-22 22:29:22 <BlueMatt> dunno what to tell you, make clean and make sure git diff/git reset --hard shows nothing?
871 2012-09-22 22:30:26 <chmod755> BlueMatt: i cloned it today
872 2012-09-22 22:30:30 <gmaxwell> chmod755: whats the top commit id on git log?
873 2012-09-22 22:31:34 <chmod755> commit 2f91373a0a4d66a93cc6f11e9eb750aff1f0b354
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876 2012-09-22 22:42:11 <gmaxwell> I see the same thing. Works for me (well, it's almost done compiling -qt on my laptop). You litterly typed nothing other than the qmake line, then make, and it barfs out?
877 2012-09-22 22:42:29 <chmod755> yep
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879 2012-09-22 22:44:45 <copumpkin> anyone have any estimates of how much "duplicated" work there is in bitcoin mining?
880 2012-09-22 22:45:05 <copumpkin> as in, A is mining hardcore, but his work is invalidated by B finding a block
881 2012-09-22 22:45:07 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
882 2012-09-22 22:45:24 <copumpkin> I'm just curious to line that up against average mining profitability
883 2012-09-22 22:46:03 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: not easy to estimate accurately. I mean, you can convert networking delay into knowing the orphaning rate; but you don't know the networking delays. :P
884 2012-09-22 22:46:10 <copumpkin> yeah
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888 2012-09-22 22:53:31 <gmaxwell> chmod755: yea, compiles fine here. gcc version 4.7.0 20120507 (Red Hat 4.7.0-5) (GCC)  try a make clean?
889 2012-09-22 22:54:00 <gmaxwell> (though your error doesn't sound like its far enough along that that could be the issue.)
890 2012-09-22 22:54:08 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell is on commercial linux?
891 2012-09-22 22:54:18 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: fedora.
892 2012-09-22 22:54:26 <BlueMatt> ah
893 2012-09-22 22:54:56 <BlueMatt> surprised its not branded fedora instead of red hat
894 2012-09-22 22:55:02 <amiller> copumpkin, you're asking about the percentage of stale blocks
895 2012-09-22 22:55:12 <amiller> Eliel ran a search for this at one point, i think the result was 2% but let me search logs
896 2012-09-22 22:55:38 <gmaxwell> amiller: meh, 'maybe' nodes only forward their best block...
897 2012-09-22 22:55:50 <gmaxwell> so orphans don't get good propagation.
898 2012-09-22 22:55:53 <amiller> oh no
899 2012-09-22 22:56:01 <amiller> that's too bad, orphans should get good propagation
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902 2012-09-22 22:56:47 <gmaxwell> amiller: thats a potential dos attack vector.
903 2012-09-22 22:57:08 <gmaxwell> just keep announcing 1MB alternatives for block 1.. and watch the network fall to its knees.
904 2012-09-22 22:57:56 <eian> awesome
905 2012-09-22 22:58:38 <amiller> gmaxwell, you have to work for those 1MB alternatives don't you?
906 2012-09-22 22:58:38 <Eliel> amiller: no, that wasn't me for orphan blocks. I ran some queries for transaction stats :)
907 2012-09-22 22:58:45 <copumpkin> amiller: not just whole blocks though, right?
908 2012-09-22 22:58:53 <copumpkin> there's wasted work that never makes it into a block
909 2012-09-22 22:59:06 <eian> Eliel, what stats?
910 2012-09-22 22:59:35 <gmaxwell> amiller: I can produce hundreds per minute.
911 2012-09-22 22:59:36 <amiller> gmaxwell, how about propagating just the work, or the work and the block metadata, but not the txtree
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913 2012-09-22 23:00:04 <Eliel> eian: total number of transactions and then the number of unspent transactions I think was what I found out when amiller wanted to know.
914 2012-09-22 23:00:09 <gmaxwell> sending hundreds of headers per minute is still bad. Less so.
915 2012-09-22 23:00:40 <BlueMatt> why do you want to propagate orphans anyway?
916 2012-09-22 23:00:59 <amiller> because they reveal a more precise estimate of the amount of work being performed
917 2012-09-22 23:01:07 <BlueMatt> so?
918 2012-09-22 23:01:25 <BlueMatt> it would be nice to have that information for study isnt much of an argument for changing relay policy
919 2012-09-22 23:01:42 <BlueMatt> esp such a drastic change
920 2012-09-22 23:01:51 <gmaxwell> amiller: our parameters are set so that orphaning is small; and you can't do anything with that more precise estimate because there isn't a consensus mechenism for it.
921 2012-09-22 23:02:19 <Eliel> I'd expect most pools to have statistics on orphans
922 2012-09-22 23:02:39 <Eliel> asking pool owners ought to get you a pretty good idea.
923 2012-09-22 23:02:49 <amiller> you might as well have a voluntary stale block report mechanism
924 2012-09-22 23:03:06 <amiller> it's not a dos problem because it's protected directly by proof-of-work
925 2012-09-22 23:03:30 <amiller> there's no need to change a relay policy really
926 2012-09-22 23:03:41 <gmaxwell> amiller: I just pointed out that it is. How much more concret do you need than "I can produce hundreds per minute"?
927 2012-09-22 23:03:54 <amiller> how do you produce hundreds of distinct blocks per minute
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930 2012-09-22 23:04:00 <BlueMatt> Id be all for a patch that pool ops and other miners can use to report whatever they want to some third-party logger, as long as its not in the bitcoin p2p network
931 2012-09-22 23:04:14 <gmaxwell> amiller: because I have about 10GH/s, and thats what 10GH does at minimum difficulty.
932 2012-09-22 23:04:41 <amiller> minimum difficulty?
933 2012-09-22 23:04:42 <amiller> oh i see
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935 2012-09-22 23:05:32 <amiller> what you want to do is only hear about the stale blocks that are interesting
936 2012-09-22 23:05:35 <amiller> the point is to learn more about the work
937 2012-09-22 23:05:41 <amiller> so you can sample
938 2012-09-22 23:07:04 <gmaxwell> I'm failing to see why this is worth any effort. It's 'easy' enough to passively monitor block propagation latencies without passing around extra useless data.
939 2012-09-22 23:07:10 <BlueMatt> great, write a patch to send the data off to amiller.com and convince miners to use it ;)
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941 2012-09-22 23:08:34 <amiller> BlueMatt, yeah pretty much. maybe i can hook it up to a bitcoin faucet so that if you can prove you worked on a stale block, you can get a tiny consolation prize
942 2012-09-22 23:08:50 <eian> lol
943 2012-09-22 23:08:54 <BlueMatt> heh
944 2012-09-22 23:09:06 <eian> I can probably wire up something to get stale block info
945 2012-09-22 23:09:15 <eian> amiller, what were you interested in knowing?
946 2012-09-22 23:09:36 <eian> I'm capturing orphaned blocks
947 2012-09-22 23:10:01 <amiller> eian, orphaned blocks is what i want to know about, just the problem is they don't tend to propagate very far
948 2012-09-22 23:10:32 <amiller> so we under-count them a little bit, it's not too big of a deal
949 2012-09-22 23:10:49 <gmaxwell> It's a useful health metric but not a diagnostic one.  If it goes up, thats not good...   amiller has 'special' interest because he has been musing about related alternatives to the bigcoin protocol that make use of orphaned blocks.
950 2012-09-22 23:11:47 <eian> I needed to google bigcoin before I realized that was a typo
951 2012-09-22 23:11:51 <eian> haha
952 2012-09-22 23:12:42 <gmaxwell> oops.
953 2012-09-22 23:12:54 <gmaxwell> oh well, better than "bitcon"
954 2012-09-22 23:13:06 <gmaxwell> which I'm surprised none of the negative press has picked up. ;P
955 2012-09-22 23:13:15 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: shhhh
956 2012-09-22 23:13:24 <BlueMatt> (we've even had bitcon in our src tree at one point...)
957 2012-09-22 23:13:57 <chmod755> lol
958 2012-09-22 23:14:06 <chmod755> reminds me of http://bitcorn.org/
959 2012-09-22 23:14:13 <BlueMatt> haha
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961 2012-09-22 23:15:15 <eian> HAHA
962 2012-09-22 23:15:17 <eian> that's hilarious
963 2012-09-22 23:15:35 lggr has joined
964 2012-09-22 23:16:17 <gmaxwell> (watch out; bitcoin joke sites often carry malware :( )
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966 2012-09-22 23:19:33 <amiller> jgarzik, i have pynode working with gevent now https://github.com/amiller/pynode/tree/gevent
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968 2012-09-22 23:24:24 <amiller> i used gevent to replace the crappy old async library, asyncore, as well as the strange httpsrv library
969 2012-09-22 23:25:12 <amiller> instead, i made rpc.py use just the very standard 'wsgi' http interface, so rpc.py is simpler now - and then it's instantiated with gevent's provided wsgi server
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986 2012-09-22 23:51:21 <jgarzik> amiller: same question as last time though... is it http/1.1?  or does it force repeated new TCP connections for each RPC request?
987 2012-09-22 23:51:55 <amiller> how can i observe the difference?
988 2012-09-22 23:52:17 <amiller> i am using gevent.pywsgi which claims to supports http/1.1 but i'm not sure how to check directly
989 2012-09-22 23:52:42 <jgarzik> amiller: I think curl or wget support streaming requests (and sending across same TCP connection)
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