1 2012-10-01 00:02:00 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
   2 2012-10-01 00:03:47 lggr has joined
   3 2012-10-01 00:08:36 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
   4 2012-10-01 00:09:18 Arnavion has quit (Quit: Arnavion)
   5 2012-10-01 00:10:15 Arnavion has joined
   6 2012-10-01 00:10:44 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
   7 2012-10-01 00:14:33 lggr has joined
   8 2012-10-01 00:14:35 paraipan has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
   9 2012-10-01 00:17:34 BTCTrader has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  10 2012-10-01 00:18:42 BTCTrader has joined
  11 2012-10-01 00:18:42 BTCTrader has quit (Changing host)
  12 2012-10-01 00:18:42 BTCTrader has joined
  13 2012-10-01 00:20:42 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  14 2012-10-01 00:22:12 <jgarzik> heh, BFL ads on bitcoinwatch.com
  15 2012-10-01 00:22:19 <jgarzik> marketing blitz *= 2
  16 2012-10-01 00:22:50 lggr has joined
  17 2012-10-01 00:29:18 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
  18 2012-10-01 00:31:01 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  19 2012-10-01 00:34:48 lggr has joined
  20 2012-10-01 00:41:01 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  21 2012-10-01 00:43:00 Motest031 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  22 2012-10-01 00:43:12 Motest003 has joined
  23 2012-10-01 00:45:46 lggr has joined
  24 2012-10-01 00:47:43 Impaler has joined
  25 2012-10-01 00:48:36 RainbowD_ has joined
  26 2012-10-01 00:48:56 RainbowDashh has quit (Disconnected by services)
  27 2012-10-01 00:48:56 RainbowD_ is now known as RainbowDashh
  28 2012-10-01 00:52:48 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  29 2012-10-01 00:53:13 sgstair has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  30 2012-10-01 00:54:29 BlackPrapor has quit (2!~BlackPrap@94.41.127.101.dynamic.ufanet.ru|Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
  31 2012-10-01 00:56:44 lggr has joined
  32 2012-10-01 00:58:54 AlexWaters has joined
  33 2012-10-01 01:03:10 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  34 2012-10-01 01:07:44 lggr has joined
  35 2012-10-01 01:08:55 graingert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  36 2012-10-01 01:10:04 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  37 2012-10-01 01:14:57 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  38 2012-10-01 01:15:24 RV___ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  39 2012-10-01 01:16:17 one_zero has joined
  40 2012-10-01 01:18:23 lggr has joined
  41 2012-10-01 01:20:47 RainbowDashh has quit (Quit: SLEEP MODE. <nickname> tell RainbowDashh fix your quit message. And by "fix", I mean pick one that isn't incredibly annoying)
  42 2012-10-01 01:22:29 [\\\] has joined
  43 2012-10-01 01:25:04 quijibo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  44 2012-10-01 01:25:24 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  45 2012-10-01 01:26:00 freakazoid has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  46 2012-10-01 01:27:03 D34TH has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  47 2012-10-01 01:28:04 torsthaldo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  48 2012-10-01 01:28:22 torsthaldo has joined
  49 2012-10-01 01:29:01 lggr has joined
  50 2012-10-01 01:30:02 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: oh i know there are ways, i just couldn't figure out what particular implementation was doing (the original conversation i had with him i was mostly pointing out that he was assuming a lot of things that you can't, and he didn't like that so took his ball and went home) ... he even explained comittments to me (poorly) before doing so after i had brought them up, ha
  51 2012-10-01 01:30:56 quijibo has joined
  52 2012-10-01 01:32:59 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
  53 2012-10-01 01:33:03 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
  54 2012-10-01 01:35:30 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  55 2012-10-01 01:37:10 lggr has joined
  56 2012-10-01 01:40:02 _sense has quit (Quit: ircN 8.00 for mIRC (20100904) - www.ircN.org)
  57 2012-10-01 01:43:42 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  58 2012-10-01 01:43:48 Arch_Coldfire has joined
  59 2012-10-01 01:45:56 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
  60 2012-10-01 01:47:34 RainbowDashh has joined
  61 2012-10-01 01:47:34 RainbowDashh has quit (Changing host)
  62 2012-10-01 01:47:34 RainbowDashh has joined
  63 2012-10-01 01:47:58 lggr has joined
  64 2012-10-01 01:50:19 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
  65 2012-10-01 01:51:32 gfinn has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  66 2012-10-01 01:54:58 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  67 2012-10-01 01:58:56 lggr has joined
  68 2012-10-01 01:59:34 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
  69 2012-10-01 02:03:47 stamit has joined
  70 2012-10-01 02:05:14 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  71 2012-10-01 02:09:27 lggr has joined
  72 2012-10-01 02:15:14 <wizkid057> hmm... so, in the code it says that "this should never happen", yet I get a ton of " ERROR: mempool transaction missing input" in my debug log...
  73 2012-10-01 02:15:20 <wizkid057> this normal? lol
  74 2012-10-01 02:15:47 Joric has quit ()
  75 2012-10-01 02:16:01 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  76 2012-10-01 02:19:59 lggr has joined
  77 2012-10-01 02:25:45 gfinn has joined
  78 2012-10-01 02:26:48 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  79 2012-10-01 02:26:55 _sense has joined
  80 2012-10-01 02:28:34 JZavala has joined
  81 2012-10-01 02:29:55 lggr has joined
  82 2012-10-01 02:30:08 da2ce7 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  83 2012-10-01 02:31:21 da2ce7 has joined
  84 2012-10-01 02:36:16 RV___ has joined
  85 2012-10-01 02:36:24 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  86 2012-10-01 02:38:22 fdi11inger has joined
  87 2012-10-01 02:40:04 fiesh has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  88 2012-10-01 02:40:08 lggr has joined
  89 2012-10-01 02:40:47 fdi11inger has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  90 2012-10-01 02:42:18 eoss has joined
  91 2012-10-01 02:42:18 eoss has quit (Changing host)
  92 2012-10-01 02:42:18 eoss has joined
  93 2012-10-01 02:43:01 fiesh has joined
  94 2012-10-01 02:46:58 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  95 2012-10-01 02:48:53 toffoo has quit ()
  96 2012-10-01 02:50:05 lggr has joined
  97 2012-10-01 02:56:43 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  98 2012-10-01 03:00:17 lggr has joined
  99 2012-10-01 03:06:02 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 100 2012-10-01 03:09:18 lggr has joined
 101 2012-10-01 03:09:47 Z0rZ0rZ0r1 has joined
 102 2012-10-01 03:09:48 Z0rZ0rZ0r has quit (Disconnected by services)
 103 2012-10-01 03:14:50 RainbowDashh is now known as I_EAT_POTATOES
 104 2012-10-01 03:16:08 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 105 2012-10-01 03:18:18 lggr has joined
 106 2012-10-01 03:24:44 I_EAT_POTATOES has quit (Quit: QUIT. <nickname> tell RainbowDashh fix your quit message. And by "fix", I mean pick one that isn't incredibly annoying)
 107 2012-10-01 03:24:55 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 108 2012-10-01 03:25:23 I_EAT_POTATOES has joined
 109 2012-10-01 03:25:34 I_EAT_POTATOES is now known as RainbowDashh
 110 2012-10-01 03:25:35 RainbowDashh has quit (Changing host)
 111 2012-10-01 03:25:35 RainbowDashh has joined
 112 2012-10-01 03:25:49 RainbowDashh has quit (Client Quit)
 113 2012-10-01 03:26:44 JZavala has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 114 2012-10-01 03:28:21 [7] has quit (Disconnected by services)
 115 2012-10-01 03:28:25 lggr has joined
 116 2012-10-01 03:28:29 TheSeven has joined
 117 2012-10-01 03:31:09 usagi has joined
 118 2012-10-01 03:32:33 RainbowDashh has joined
 119 2012-10-01 03:34:38 [\\\] is now known as [\\\\\\\\\\\\\\]
 120 2012-10-01 03:35:04 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 121 2012-10-01 03:35:35 Impaler_ has joined
 122 2012-10-01 03:35:37 robbak has joined
 123 2012-10-01 03:38:26 lggr has joined
 124 2012-10-01 03:39:02 Impaler has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 125 2012-10-01 03:45:13 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 126 2012-10-01 03:48:06 xisalty is now known as xisalty_
 127 2012-10-01 03:48:23 xisalty_ is now known as xisalty
 128 2012-10-01 03:48:31 lggr has joined
 129 2012-10-01 03:49:39 eoss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 130 2012-10-01 03:49:59 [\\\\\\\\\\\\\\] is now known as [\\\]
 131 2012-10-01 03:55:19 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 132 2012-10-01 03:55:32 RainbowDashh is now known as in
 133 2012-10-01 03:58:31 freakazoid has joined
 134 2012-10-01 03:58:44 lggr has joined
 135 2012-10-01 03:58:50 in has quit (Quit: QUIT. <nickname> tell RainbowDashh fix your quit message. And by "fix", I mean pick one that isn't incredibly annoying)
 136 2012-10-01 04:05:44 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 137 2012-10-01 04:08:44 lggr has joined
 138 2012-10-01 04:11:22 RainbowDashh has joined
 139 2012-10-01 04:15:43 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 140 2012-10-01 04:16:46 <jgarzik> amiller: ping
 141 2012-10-01 04:16:56 <amiller> yo jgarzik
 142 2012-10-01 04:16:56 <jgarzik> amiller: Do you agree that your pynode stuff is ready for pulling?
 143 2012-10-01 04:17:58 <amiller> yes i think it's ready
 144 2012-10-01 04:18:13 <amiller> i've had two of them up for a couple of days
 145 2012-10-01 04:18:20 lggr has joined
 146 2012-10-01 04:18:34 <jgarzik> amiller: OK
 147 2012-10-01 04:19:02 <jgarzik> amiller: I'll pull locally, do one final test import, then push to pynode.git/master
 148 2012-10-01 04:19:25 <jgarzik> amiller: so it should show up in $IBD_time_amount hours :)
 149 2012-10-01 04:22:48 sgstair has joined
 150 2012-10-01 04:24:54 <amiller> hm, i think i just figured out how to make IBD go fast as hell
 151 2012-10-01 04:25:02 <amiller> specifically, it's IBD without any seeking
 152 2012-10-01 04:25:21 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 153 2012-10-01 04:25:37 <jgarzik> amiller: if things are cached, it should be pretty fast
 154 2012-10-01 04:25:40 <jgarzik> amiller: but... do tell :)
 155 2012-10-01 04:25:44 <amiller> the trick is to do two passes
 156 2012-10-01 04:26:00 <amiller> where the first pass is used to create a large file with all the data in order
 157 2012-10-01 04:26:24 <amiller> this file will include the data for each transaction output twice, once when the block is created, and second when the transaction output is spent
 158 2012-10-01 04:27:12 <amiller> you will still need to store a UTXO set in memory, but it will not need any data, just keys
 159 2012-10-01 04:27:28 lggr has joined
 160 2012-10-01 04:34:06 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 161 2012-10-01 04:36:30 <jgarzik> amiller: flat block file + per-block undo log (for reorgs) seemed like it had promise
 162 2012-10-01 04:37:21 lggr has joined
 163 2012-10-01 04:37:37 <amiller> hm, is the per-block undo log also a flat file that can be processed in order
 164 2012-10-01 04:39:03 <jgarzik> amiller: what is the purpose of gevent.sleep() at the top of got_message in node.py?
 165 2012-10-01 04:39:53 <jgarzik> c.f. my comment days ago, about models needing odd fixes in unexpected locations, because the model (simulated blocking, on top of non-blocking) emulated does not match the underlying OS syscall usage...
 166 2012-10-01 04:40:14 <amiller> right, i'll try to justify it here
 167 2012-10-01 04:40:48 <amiller> that's the gevent cooperative yield, by putting it at the top of each get message it allows 'messages' to be the granularity of execution
 168 2012-10-01 04:41:33 <jgarzik> amiller: so, necessary but unnatural ;p
 169 2012-10-01 04:41:40 <amiller> actually hm that probably isn't quite true
 170 2012-10-01 04:41:59 <amiller> let me push a concern on the conversation stack, which is that we need to look at what happens if two messages are processed interleaved, is there a race condition there
 171 2012-10-01 04:42:16 <amiller> but the only reason that sleep is needed is that the rpc call sometimes processses a sequence of messages at once
 172 2012-10-01 04:42:38 <amiller> and if there is no yield in between those messages then it will starve the other connections
 173 2012-10-01 04:43:57 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 174 2012-10-01 04:46:12 <jgarzik> amiller: it is the nature of async single process networking that you service things one-at-a-time, ultimately
 175 2012-10-01 04:46:26 <jgarzik> amiller: no matter what illusions the model provides
 176 2012-10-01 04:46:51 lggr has joined
 177 2012-10-01 04:46:54 <amiller> i should remove gevent's monkey.patch_all, that's an inappropriate hack here, so i've introduced a race condition that wasn't there in asyncore :p
 178 2012-10-01 04:47:26 <amiller> by patching all, i've allowed execution control to switch at any of the IO operations, including writing to the log file (but probably excluding leveldb)
 179 2012-10-01 04:47:43 <jgarzik> amiller: I liked the multi-process setup of:  1 network, 1 database, N workers.  Typically it is just network<->database, but network can offload difficult work like "handle new block message" to the worker processes
 180 2012-10-01 04:48:59 <jgarzik> amiller: (continuing review) shouldn't puttxidx call batch.Put() and not .db.Put()?
 181 2012-10-01 04:49:54 <jgarzik> amiller: i.e. we make many tx index updates when importing a block, and would want to gather all connect-block operations into a single large batch write, it would seem.
 182 2012-10-01 04:50:54 <amiller> ah yes it should, that's probably an important optimization
 183 2012-10-01 04:51:06 Z0rZ0rZ0r1 has quit (Quit: Wheeeee)
 184 2012-10-01 04:52:01 <jgarzik> amiller: optimization, yes, but I was thinking more about atomicity of connect-block operation
 185 2012-10-01 04:52:28 <jgarzik> amiller: die in the middle of the operation leaves you with a consistent database... but inconsistent data
 186 2012-10-01 04:53:35 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 187 2012-10-01 04:53:52 <jgarzik> amiller: the raw block file needs a header, a la bitcoind
 188 2012-10-01 04:54:17 <jgarzik> amiller: a stream of CBlock's is perfectly fine... as long as our index remains 100% intact
 189 2012-10-01 04:54:42 <jgarzik> still, no worse off than with gdbm, admittedly
 190 2012-10-01 04:55:46 <amiller> it's true that a die in the middle of connect_block would result in an inconsistency
 191 2012-10-01 04:55:59 <amiller> there's a log message for that, "TxIndex failed" etc.
 192 2012-10-01 04:56:49 lggr has joined
 193 2012-10-01 04:57:32 <amiller> there's no more validation to be done at that point, so only an exception  (as opposed to invalid network data) would cause it
 194 2012-10-01 04:58:09 <jgarzik> amiller: or disk error (out of space etc)
 195 2012-10-01 04:58:19 <jgarzik> guess that falls under exception
 196 2012-10-01 04:58:37 <amiller> is rolling that transaction back sufficient to solve the problem and leave you in a consistent state?
 197 2012-10-01 04:59:48 <jgarzik> amiller: if one part of connect-block operation fails, the entire operation fails, and should leave no trace in the database
 198 2012-10-01 04:59:52 <amiller> the only other state modification in that function is removing transactions from self.mempool, does that harm consistency?
 199 2012-10-01 05:00:08 <jgarzik> amiller: previous pynode was vulnerable to this as well, so it is not a merge-blocker
 200 2012-10-01 05:00:16 <jgarzik> amiller: gdbm is not transactional
 201 2012-10-01 05:00:20 Arch_Coldfire has quit (Quit: Arch Linux)
 202 2012-10-01 05:00:48 <jgarzik> amiller: for the moment, no
 203 2012-10-01 05:01:00 <jgarzik> amiller: but if a wallet is attached, getting mempool right is much more important
 204 2012-10-01 05:03:31 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 205 2012-10-01 05:05:30 lggr has joined
 206 2012-10-01 05:05:36 <jgarzik> amiller: in any case, putting the entire connect-block in one big batch should make the import quite a bit faster
 207 2012-10-01 05:06:19 root2_ has joined
 208 2012-10-01 05:06:42 <amiller> jgarzik, i pushed a commit with two changes, one removes the race condition i introduced by over-geventing, the other is a writebatch for everything in connect block, simulating an IBD now
 209 2012-10-01 05:07:41 BitcoinBaltar has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 210 2012-10-01 05:08:33 BitcoinBaltar has joined
 211 2012-10-01 05:08:35 <amiller> i'm going to think about how we can unittest for concurrency issues
 212 2012-10-01 05:09:46 <jgarzik> amiller: pretty fast so far...  height zero to 162501 in 10 minutes
 213 2012-10-01 05:09:47 root2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 214 2012-10-01 05:09:47 PhantomSpark has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 215 2012-10-01 05:11:16 <jgarzik> amiller: any tests welcome
 216 2012-10-01 05:11:29 <amiller> okay so now i can answer your original question a little bit more reasonably
 217 2012-10-01 05:11:50 <amiller> the concurrency with gevent is modeled by having the tasks switch contexts only at special points
 218 2012-10-01 05:12:10 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 219 2012-10-01 05:12:12 <amiller> these are the gevent.sleep() at the beginning of get_message, and in any of the calls to gevent.socket.Socket recv and send
 220 2012-10-01 05:12:18 arij has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 221 2012-10-01 05:14:11 lggr has joined
 222 2012-10-01 05:16:24 <jgarzik> amiller: what is the leveldb default sync policy, I wonder?  We could drop .flush() for IBD, then re-enable for normal network
 223 2012-10-01 05:18:30 <amiller> i am using the default sync policy, which is not to sync
 224 2012-10-01 05:19:12 <amiller> so if the process is killed, some writes may not have been committed and the dat file may be inconsistent with the db
 225 2012-10-01 05:21:02 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 226 2012-10-01 05:22:07 <amiller> it might not be that bad, since i flush the file before executing the transaction, so the worst case might be that there is some extra data in blocks.dat
 227 2012-10-01 05:23:07 <jgarzik> height 190001 after 22 minutes
 228 2012-10-01 05:23:42 lggr has joined
 229 2012-10-01 05:26:17 <jgarzik> yep, just hit the "wall" at height 193000, where script verification kicks in
 230 2012-10-01 05:26:39 sgornick has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 231 2012-10-01 05:27:20 <amiller> jgarzik, it seems like to analyze concurrency we only need to focus on connect_block and disconnect_block, does that sound right to you?
 232 2012-10-01 05:27:41 <jgarzik> amiller: yes
 233 2012-10-01 05:28:27 <jgarzik> amiller: BTW, for post-IBD operation, we need a signature cache a la bitcoind
 234 2012-10-01 05:28:40 <jgarzik> amiller: as transactions trickle in, you verify their signatures and cache the result
 235 2012-10-01 05:28:51 <jgarzik> amiller: when a block arrives, the vast majority of transactions are already verified
 236 2012-10-01 05:30:13 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 237 2012-10-01 05:30:16 freakazoid has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 238 2012-10-01 05:30:59 pnicholson has joined
 239 2012-10-01 05:33:10 lggr has joined
 240 2012-10-01 05:33:21 <amiller> jgarzik, i hereby claim that pynode is safely concurrent, given the semantics of leveldb and file io
 241 2012-10-01 05:33:32 <amiller> disconnect_block and connect_block now use exactly one leveldb write
 242 2012-10-01 05:35:29 ThomasV has joined
 243 2012-10-01 05:35:50 <amiller> blocks.dat is only written to and flushed in one place, which is prior to inserting the file position into the leveldb
 244 2012-10-01 05:36:24 <amiller> so even if the process is interrupted in between flushing the file and committing the new index information, the result would be redundant blocks in the file
 245 2012-10-01 05:37:31 <jgarzik> amiller: great!
 246 2012-10-01 05:37:43 <jgarzik> amiller: the next bottleneck is per-sig (or per-tx) concurrency
 247 2012-10-01 05:37:50 sgornick has joined
 248 2012-10-01 05:40:01 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 249 2012-10-01 05:43:12 lggr has joined
 250 2012-10-01 05:43:29 <jgarzik> amiller: another BTW: you will note that the entire IBD is an ugly hack.  part of that is the fault of the bitcoin protocol, with its special 'inv'-to-continue behavior (noted in node.py)
 251 2012-10-01 05:44:06 <jgarzik> amiller: but in particular, pynode requests the first 500 blocks... and then pauses until some message -- any message -- is received from the network, before downloading blocks 500-200000
 252 2012-10-01 05:44:24 <sipa> jgarzik: per-sig is very hard, per-txin is doable
 253 2012-10-01 05:44:40 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
 254 2012-10-01 05:44:45 <jgarzik> amiller: this send_getblocks logic is due to asyncore's shite, lack of a real timer/timeout facility
 255 2012-10-01 05:45:41 <jgarzik> sipa: per-txin probably the closest we can get to per-sig, agreed
 256 2012-10-01 05:45:49 <amiller> sipa, now that i've announced that i think pynode is concurrent, would you consider reviewing our leveldb/flatfile write patterns
 257 2012-10-01 05:46:40 <sipa> amiller: i haven't ever looked at pynode's code...
 258 2012-10-01 05:46:59 <jgarzik> amiller: heh, a bit premature still...
 259 2012-10-01 05:47:05 BlackPrapor has joined
 260 2012-10-01 05:47:06 <sipa> also, i don't know python
 261 2012-10-01 05:47:21 <jgarzik> amiller: "pynode is concurrent" is a tough claim for a single-threaded process, too
 262 2012-10-01 05:47:40 <sipa> well, i did write some patches for poclbm
 263 2012-10-01 05:48:09 <jgarzik> amiller: just pulled your update, b1a1f3e
 264 2012-10-01 05:48:59 <amiller> sipa, hm, is there an easy way i could document for you just the sequence of leveldb and file interactions, as well as the task-switch points?
 265 2012-10-01 05:49:17 <amiller> i suppose the best answer is that i should model it in haskell if i were seriously concerned about getting it right
 266 2012-10-01 05:49:45 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 267 2012-10-01 05:51:59 lggr has joined
 268 2012-10-01 05:52:29 <jgarzik> height 160001 at 10 minutes
 269 2012-10-01 05:52:52 <jgarzik> a time shade slower than the last minute, which was pre-one-big-batch
 270 2012-10-01 05:52:58 <jgarzik> s/minute/time/
 271 2012-10-01 05:53:21 <jgarzik> not concerned -- atomicity is more important
 272 2012-10-01 05:53:50 <amiller> take my commit c1d6a20363
 273 2012-10-01 05:53:57 <amiller> i did the same thing for disconnect_block as i did for connect_block
 274 2012-10-01 05:54:08 kreal has quit ()
 275 2012-10-01 05:58:34 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 276 2012-10-01 05:59:57 gjs278 has joined
 277 2012-10-01 06:02:45 ovidiusoft has joined
 278 2012-10-01 06:02:51 lggr has joined
 279 2012-10-01 06:09:42 <knotwork> With deterministic addresses, it is possible to create a determinastic sequence of addresses for someone without knowing their private key?
 280 2012-10-01 06:09:45 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 281 2012-10-01 06:10:08 dvide has joined
 282 2012-10-01 06:10:29 <sipa> knotwork: yes, search the forum for type-2 determinstic addresses, or look at BIP 32 which exploits them
 283 2012-10-01 06:10:48 <knotwork> So for example you could compute different addresses for the same recipient which could be mapped to block numbers, such as if I mean block 240,001 I use your 240,001st address from the sequence?
 284 2012-10-01 06:11:31 <knotwork> So to specify a future block against which I wish a specific deposit to apply I could know an address of yours that by a convention will mean I intend that block?
 285 2012-10-01 06:11:55 <jgarzik> sipa: do you have code for the append-only wallet format anywhere public?
 286 2012-10-01 06:11:56 lggr has joined
 287 2012-10-01 06:12:09 <sipa> jgarzik: in my logdb branch, but it's not up to date
 288 2012-10-01 06:12:31 <knotwork> so I could say please specify strike price as last digits after the decimal and amount wagered by the whole coins sent and the settlement block number by the address you send to?
 289 2012-10-01 06:12:33 <sipa> knotwork: that's possible
 290 2012-10-01 06:12:57 <jgarzik> tnx
 291 2012-10-01 06:13:16 * sipa -> first work day
 292 2012-10-01 06:13:46 <jgarzik> sipa: does logdb keep the keys in RAM?
 293 2012-10-01 06:13:50 <jgarzik> sipa: woo!  congrats :)
 294 2012-10-01 06:14:20 <knotwork> is there yet any tool an end user could use that he can tell it an address and the how many'th address from that one in sequence he wants?
 295 2012-10-01 06:14:53 <amiller> have fun sipa :o
 296 2012-10-01 06:17:06 <jgarzik> real	34m36.259s
 297 2012-10-01 06:17:06 <jgarzik> user	32m37.669s
 298 2012-10-01 06:17:06 <jgarzik> sys	0m56.698s
 299 2012-10-01 06:17:16 <jgarzik> amiller: full import, nosig=1
 300 2012-10-01 06:17:18 <jgarzik> nice
 301 2012-10-01 06:18:10 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 302 2012-10-01 06:18:59 <jgarzik> amiller: pushed out
 303 2012-10-01 06:19:07 <jgarzik> amiller: can you please rebase your last commit?
 304 2012-10-01 06:19:25 <jgarzik> amiller: I had to fix all the broken whitespace
 305 2012-10-01 06:19:53 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 306 2012-10-01 06:21:26 lggr has joined
 307 2012-10-01 06:24:36 <amiller> jgarzik, although you said you pulled my second-to-last update b1a1,  your latest merge (e689) already contains my latest commit c1d6
 308 2012-10-01 06:24:40 <amiller> so we're currently in sync
 309 2012-10-01 06:26:44 <jgarzik> amiller: so it does
 310 2012-10-01 06:28:33 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 311 2012-10-01 06:28:56 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
 312 2012-10-01 06:29:18 BTCTrader_ has joined
 313 2012-10-01 06:29:18 BTCTrader_ has quit (Changing host)
 314 2012-10-01 06:29:18 BTCTrader_ has joined
 315 2012-10-01 06:30:18 lggr has joined
 316 2012-10-01 06:32:52 RainbowDashh is now known as RainbowDashh|
 317 2012-10-01 06:32:54 BTCTrader has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 318 2012-10-01 06:32:54 BTCTrader_ is now known as BTCTrader
 319 2012-10-01 06:37:25 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 320 2012-10-01 06:39:09 lggr has joined
 321 2012-10-01 06:45:03 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 322 2012-10-01 06:47:55 lggr has joined
 323 2012-10-01 06:54:20 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 324 2012-10-01 06:57:18 lggr has joined
 325 2012-10-01 06:57:54 <jgarzik> amiller: updated pybond.git to match pynode's greenlet/rpc changes
 326 2012-10-01 07:03:32 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 327 2012-10-01 07:04:07 <amiller> jgarzik, you should also remove monkey.patch_all(), from line 12 on node.py
 328 2012-10-01 07:06:42 lggr has joined
 329 2012-10-01 07:08:12 Lolcust has quit (Quit: Nap time)
 330 2012-10-01 07:08:44 stamit has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 331 2012-10-01 07:09:12 Lolcust has joined
 332 2012-10-01 07:09:38 stamit has joined
 333 2012-10-01 07:10:41 random_cat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 334 2012-10-01 07:11:42 <jgarzik> amiller: good catch
 335 2012-10-01 07:12:14 random_cat has joined
 336 2012-10-01 07:13:12 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 337 2012-10-01 07:14:36 stamit has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 338 2012-10-01 07:15:19 lggr has joined
 339 2012-10-01 07:17:34 cypher2045 has joined
 340 2012-10-01 07:20:10 boupitch has joined
 341 2012-10-01 07:20:47 harkon_ has joined
 342 2012-10-01 07:21:08 harkon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 343 2012-10-01 07:21:51 haberdasher has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 344 2012-10-01 07:22:01 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 345 2012-10-01 07:22:12 CodesInChaos has joined
 346 2012-10-01 07:25:16 lggr has joined
 347 2012-10-01 07:27:23 stamit has joined
 348 2012-10-01 07:31:28 Marf has joined
 349 2012-10-01 07:32:01 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 350 2012-10-01 07:35:12 lggr has joined
 351 2012-10-01 07:40:42 root2_ is now known as root2
 352 2012-10-01 07:41:58 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 353 2012-10-01 07:44:18 lggr has joined
 354 2012-10-01 07:51:07 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 355 2012-10-01 07:53:05 lggr has joined
 356 2012-10-01 07:57:55 <sipa> jgarzik: yes, it keeps everything in RAM
 357 2012-10-01 07:58:26 <sipa> jgarzik: though you could just keep key->pos
 358 2012-10-01 07:59:50 darkee has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 359 2012-10-01 08:00:01 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 360 2012-10-01 08:00:25 guruvan- has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 361 2012-10-01 08:00:25 guruvan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 362 2012-10-01 08:00:48 darkee has joined
 363 2012-10-01 08:00:50 mtve has joined
 364 2012-10-01 08:02:18 AlexWaters has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 365 2012-10-01 08:02:36 guruvan has joined
 366 2012-10-01 08:03:10 lggr has joined
 367 2012-10-01 08:03:39 guruvan- has joined
 368 2012-10-01 08:05:44 osxorgate has joined
 369 2012-10-01 08:07:27 AlexWaters has joined
 370 2012-10-01 16:37:25 wumpus has joined
 371 2012-10-01 16:37:55 <BlueMatt> TD: I decided against removing length caching entirely - its too big a rebase for me to tackle right now, so I just fixed up some of the issues with the length caching that I found, this look a bit better?
 372 2012-10-01 16:37:56 <BlueMatt> https://code.google.com/r/bluemattme-bitcoinj/source/detail?r=c082d809d6bc975d3bd5c5b98eb04b1aeda626a8&name=newscripts
 373 2012-10-01 16:38:11 Detritus has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 374 2012-10-01 16:39:19 Detritus has joined
 375 2012-10-01 16:41:50 Detritus has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 376 2012-10-01 16:42:49 Detritus has joined
 377 2012-10-01 16:43:36 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 378 2012-10-01 16:44:02 edcba_ has joined
 379 2012-10-01 16:45:29 <edcba_> luissuarez: it's not a channel for btc trading
 380 2012-10-01 16:45:34 <edcba_> stop pv spamming
 381 2012-10-01 16:46:36 lggr has joined
 382 2012-10-01 16:46:42 haberdasher has joined
 383 2012-10-01 16:46:49 edcba has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 384 2012-10-01 16:46:57 edcba_ is now known as edcba
 385 2012-10-01 16:47:16 Detritus has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 386 2012-10-01 16:52:25 gfinn has joined
 387 2012-10-01 16:52:26 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 388 2012-10-01 16:52:52 skeledrew1 has joined
 389 2012-10-01 16:54:07 Detritus has joined
 390 2012-10-01 16:54:12 EasyAt is now known as EasyAt|
 391 2012-10-01 16:54:35 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 392 2012-10-01 16:54:40 Detritus has quit (Client Quit)
 393 2012-10-01 16:55:57 <isis1> @kjj_ didn't see that one for some reason.
 394 2012-10-01 16:56:33 lggr has joined
 395 2012-10-01 16:56:57 f4z has joined
 396 2012-10-01 16:57:31 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 397 2012-10-01 16:57:33 <isis1> Actually just looked, that one only tells us if a tx is mine.  I've got a bitcoin address and I want to see if it's one of mine or not.
 398 2012-10-01 17:01:36 freakazoid has joined
 399 2012-10-01 17:03:41 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 400 2012-10-01 17:04:55 <gavinandresen> isis1: wallet is derived from keystore, and there is a CKeyStore::HaveKey() method
 401 2012-10-01 17:07:24 toffoo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 402 2012-10-01 17:07:36 lggr has joined
 403 2012-10-01 17:08:14 <isis1> So I've got an arbitrary string I've converted into a CAddress object (to validate it actually is an address).  pwalletMain->HaveKey(addr); is going to let me know that I have that address?
 404 2012-10-01 17:09:42 <isis1> Well  pwalletMain->HaveKey(addr.GetKeyID());  anyways
 405 2012-10-01 17:09:43 <gavinandresen> addr.GetKeyId() I think
 406 2012-10-01 17:09:45 L8 has joined
 407 2012-10-01 17:10:06 <isis1> Cool that saves me a lot of looping.
 408 2012-10-01 17:10:18 <isis1> Thanks Gavin
 409 2012-10-01 17:10:28 <gavinandresen> If it is a pay-to-script-hash address then the right call is ->HaveCScript()
 410 2012-10-01 17:10:57 gfinn has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 411 2012-10-01 17:11:00 <isis1> No this is a bit different.
 412 2012-10-01 17:11:30 <gavinandresen> ok, carry on then.
 413 2012-10-01 17:11:32 <isis1> Remember I'm repurposing the alerts to create a method for requesting bitcoins.
 414 2012-10-01 17:11:50 <isis1> I'm using the comment field to store a bitcoin address.
 415 2012-10-01 17:12:01 <gavinandresen> oh, that's probably the wrong way to do it.
 416 2012-10-01 17:12:17 BlackPrapor has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
 417 2012-10-01 17:12:17 <isis1> If that address is one of mine when I recieve it then we know to display it to the user.
 418 2012-10-01 17:12:23 <luissuarez> anyone buying at 12usd pm me
 419 2012-10-01 17:12:45 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
 420 2012-10-01 17:12:49 <isis1> Ok gavin, I'm all ears.
 421 2012-10-01 17:12:58 <gavinandresen> bitcoin addresses are really a GUI thing... if you're creating  a payment protocol it should be "Please pay to this CScript"
 422 2012-10-01 17:13:17 <isis1> Yes and that will be in the message body
 423 2012-10-01 17:13:44 <gavinandresen> I see, you're using bitcoin addresses as identifiers?  hmmm.....
 424 2012-10-01 17:13:45 <isis1> This is using the bitcoin address a bit like a phone number.
 425 2012-10-01 17:13:53 <gavinandresen> that doesn't feel right, either.
 426 2012-10-01 17:13:54 <isis1> Yes
 427 2012-10-01 17:14:18 <isis1> I know, but the alternative was to try and implement a new message type.
 428 2012-10-01 17:14:30 <isis1> Could just as easily use a publickey I guess.
 429 2012-10-01 17:14:39 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 430 2012-10-01 17:14:55 <isis1> Here let me start at the beginning so you have a feeling for how this would work.
 431 2012-10-01 17:15:52 <isis1> I would enroll a secret that lets me identify myself to my bitcoin client.  This secret could be anything but for our purposes let's say it's a payment card of some type....
 432 2012-10-01 17:16:35 <isis1> Once I'm enrolled, that secret is converted to a private/public keypair and stored in my client (I'm using the wallet for convience but it could be anywhere).
 433 2012-10-01 17:16:48 <TD> gavinandresen: actually, it should be more than that
 434 2012-10-01 17:16:54 <TD> gavinandresen: it should be "please pay to this list of scripts"
 435 2012-10-01 17:17:17 toffoo has joined
 436 2012-10-01 17:17:19 <gavinandresen> TD: ... where list of scripts is (script,amount) ?
 437 2012-10-01 17:17:19 <TD> in future for privacy most single payments will probably end up as set of independent transactions to a set of independent addresess, divided up such that it makes blockchain analysis hard
 438 2012-10-01 17:17:20 <luissuarez> ANYONE WONNA BUY BTC AT 12USD VIA PP PM ME
 439 2012-10-01 17:17:23 <TD> yeah sorry
 440 2012-10-01 17:17:27 <TD> "pay to this list of outputs
 441 2012-10-01 17:17:40 <jgarzik> a new bitcoin client appears...
 442 2012-10-01 17:17:42 <jgarzik> http://ufasoft.com/files/ufasoft_coin-0.33.tar.xz
 443 2012-10-01 17:17:53 <TD> ufasoft coin was around for a while, iirc, but it's proprietary?
 444 2012-10-01 17:17:55 <TD> or it was
 445 2012-10-01 17:18:30 <isis1> Now I go to a merchant.  I hand over my secret (payment card) to the merchants POS gateway.  The gateway generates an alert, and I know the alert is intended for my client because it uses the bitcoin address generated from the secret, in it's comment field.
 446 2012-10-01 17:18:44 lggr has joined
 447 2012-10-01 17:18:57 <isis1> After I have the alert, then I post it to a new screen on the client and allow the user to approve or decline the request.
 448 2012-10-01 17:19:40 <jgarzik> TD: that's the ufasoft-coin source code
 449 2012-10-01 17:19:45 <TD> ah ok
 450 2012-10-01 17:20:00 <isis1> If the user approves then a new tx is created as per whatever the requesting merchant asked for.
 451 2012-10-01 17:20:14 <TD> jgarzik: xz?
 452 2012-10-01 17:20:17 <TD> what is xz?
 453 2012-10-01 17:20:31 <jgarzik> TD: the "new gzip"
 454 2012-10-01 17:20:36 <jgarzik> TD: lzma, standardized
 455 2012-10-01 17:20:39 <TD> ah
 456 2012-10-01 17:20:50 <TD> well, crap. i love LZMA but i suspect my tar doesn't know how to uncompress it
 457 2012-10-01 17:21:00 <jgarzik> TD: Fedora and other distros are defaulting to xz compression in rpms.  kernel.org is using .xz, etc.
 458 2012-10-01 17:21:03 <TD>  lzmadec ufasoft_coin-0.33.tar.xz
 459 2012-10-01 17:21:04 <TD> lzmadec: ufasoft_coin-0.33.tar.xz: File format not recognized
 460 2012-10-01 17:21:08 * TD sighs
 461 2012-10-01 17:21:12 <jgarzik> TD: "J" argument to tar
 462 2012-10-01 17:21:25 <jgarzik> tar xvfJ $FILE
 463 2012-10-01 17:21:28 <TD> maybe if i upgrade macos it'll learn how to deal with these :)
 464 2012-10-01 17:21:29 <Eliel> isis1: what's the benefit of this system over just remote controlling the node at home directly from your mobile device?
 465 2012-10-01 17:21:31 <TD> or i can do it on my server
 466 2012-10-01 17:22:28 <gavinandresen> isis1: uhh... too busy right now to figure out if your payment protocol is secure.  But "generates a bitcoin address from the secret" seems like the wrong thing to do, I think you want to broadcast a signature not an address.
 467 2012-10-01 17:23:09 gfinn has joined
 468 2012-10-01 17:23:10 <TD> wow
 469 2012-10-01 17:23:11 <isis1> @Gavin, we still have a signature, just haven't discussed it because it's in the alert body and not the alert comment.
 470 2012-10-01 17:23:16 <TD> seems like ufasoft coin is a pretty huge project
 471 2012-10-01 17:23:21 Arch_Coldfire has joined
 472 2012-10-01 17:23:37 <isis1> ufasoft is a good wallet, it's multicurrency though.
 473 2012-10-01 17:23:41 <Luke-Jr> Ufasoft made a client?
 474 2012-10-01 17:23:41 <gavinandresen> isis1: and I also think you'll probably save yourself time "doing it right" with a new message type rather than using alert comments....
 475 2012-10-01 17:23:46 <TD> it's a full node?
 476 2012-10-01 17:24:07 <isis1> ufasoft will slow your computer down dramatically though.
 477 2012-10-01 17:24:24 <TD> this isn't the miner
 478 2012-10-01 17:24:53 <TD> seems like some of the code was copy/pasted from satoshis
 479 2012-10-01 17:24:55 <isis1> @gavin, in the long run you're probably right.  However I wasn't sure of the entrance point for a new message type and Alert has all the fields I require.
 480 2012-10-01 17:24:59 <TD> yikes.
 481 2012-10-01 17:25:07 <TD> i hope people don't start mining on this ....
 482 2012-10-01 17:25:09 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 483 2012-10-01 17:25:38 <Eliel> isis1: could you please explain what benefits the system you're planning provides over what we have now?
 484 2012-10-01 17:25:40 <TD> isis1: i'd suggest studying the code more then. it's not that complicated - just check out PushMessage and the main loop in main.cpp (search for "alert" if you want to find how alert messages are processed
 485 2012-10-01 17:25:48 <isis1> Since I'm only passing these particular type of alerts between clients identifying themselves as OpenPay enabled, I think it will be alright.
 486 2012-10-01 17:26:32 <isis1> I know how alert messages are processed,I'm in the section of code you're talking about right now.
 487 2012-10-01 17:27:13 <L8> does any one have some pdf that I can learn from zero about how bitcoin works?
 488 2012-10-01 17:27:37 <helo> L8: [PDF]
 489 2012-10-01 17:27:37 <helo> Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System
 490 2012-10-01 17:27:38 <helo> bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
 491 2012-10-01 17:27:39 <isis1> @Eliel, its using a paradigm that would be more comfortable for end users and merchants.  When I'm done there will be a home version, plus an android wallet version, both will be capable of doing it this way.
 492 2012-10-01 17:27:47 <helo> oops, sorry for the sloppy paste
 493 2012-10-01 17:27:59 <L8> thanks :)
 494 2012-10-01 17:28:02 <jgarzik> gah, PM spam starting again
 495 2012-10-01 17:28:07 <jgarzik> what is the IRC magic to block it?
 496 2012-10-01 17:28:12 <jgarzik>  /mode +R something something?
 497 2012-10-01 17:28:13 <isis1> I use /ignore
 498 2012-10-01 17:28:28 <helo> maybe /umode +R
 499 2012-10-01 17:28:29 <jgarzik> isis1: doesn't work if they keep switching hosts, which they do
 500 2012-10-01 17:28:48 <Eliel> isis1: you want to mimic the user interface of paying with a credit card?
 501 2012-10-01 17:28:54 <isis1> True, well at least he's not selling viagra
 502 2012-10-01 17:28:56 lggr has joined
 503 2012-10-01 17:29:05 <isis1> @Eliel, yes
 504 2012-10-01 17:30:18 <isis1> Software capable of doing it is one piece of the puzzle.  There are some other steps involved as well.  But eventually my goal is to create a payment card network using bitcoins for the funds transfer component.
 505 2012-10-01 17:30:35 <gavinandresen> isis1: So how are merchants and users identified?
 506 2012-10-01 17:30:38 <Eliel> isis1: doing it this way sounds overcomplicated to me.
 507 2012-10-01 17:31:54 <isis1> Merchant is running a bitcoind with a custom RPC command to generate the payment request with information gathered from their CC gateway software.
 508 2012-10-01 17:32:01 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 509 2012-10-01 17:32:21 da2ce7_d has joined
 510 2012-10-01 17:32:24 <gavinandresen> isis1: right, but my question is "If I get a payment request, how do I know it is from Merchant X and not man-in-the-middle-Y ?"
 511 2012-10-01 17:32:26 <Eliel> isis1: why use bitcoin network at all for this? why not just have the merchant system connect directly with HTTP or such?
 512 2012-10-01 17:32:42 Arch_Coldfire has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 513 2012-10-01 17:32:56 <isis1> I'll explain in a minute Eliel, let me finish with Gavin first...
 514 2012-10-01 17:33:21 Arch_Coldfire has joined
 515 2012-10-01 17:33:23 <isis1> @Gavin, the request itself is signed.
 516 2012-10-01 17:34:04 <gavinandresen> isis1: ok, so how are merchants identified?  Certificate authority built into your client or something?
 517 2012-10-01 17:34:23 paraipan has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
 518 2012-10-01 17:34:34 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 519 2012-10-01 17:34:34 <isis1> That's a possibility in the future but not relevant to how I'm doing it at this time...
 520 2012-10-01 17:34:50 Anona is now known as Transfuta
 521 2012-10-01 17:34:57 <isis1> A signature can only be generated with the private key right?
 522 2012-10-01 17:35:09 <isis1> Well a valid signature anyways.
 523 2012-10-01 17:35:38 runeks has joined
 524 2012-10-01 17:35:43 <gavinandresen> what private key?  is there one master private key that all the merchants get and use to sign payment requests?
 525 2012-10-01 17:35:54 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 526 2012-10-01 17:36:00 <Eliel> you show your own private key at the shop that you have configured as acceptable? and the shop uses that to make the signature?
 527 2012-10-01 17:36:09 <isis1> Yep!
 528 2012-10-01 17:36:14 <isis1> Thanks for saving me some typing.
 529 2012-10-01 17:36:21 <gavinandresen> oh. What stops the shop from stealing that private key?
 530 2012-10-01 17:36:30 <Eliel> (I got tired of waiting you say that :P)
 531 2012-10-01 17:36:36 <isis1> Nothing, which is why it's revokable
 532 2012-10-01 17:37:03 <isis1> Also it's not automatic.  The request comes through but you still have to click "approve"
 533 2012-10-01 17:37:11 <runeks> I'm trying to create a private key in base58 format. I have successfully encoded the private key itself as base58, but the checksum bytes are wrong. aren't the checksum bytes simply SHA256(SHA256(0x80+<32_byte_address>))?
 534 2012-10-01 17:37:18 <L8> if I forgot my passpharse
 535 2012-10-01 17:37:23 <L8> and I have nothing in my wallet
 536 2012-10-01 17:37:27 <L8> can I get a new user?
 537 2012-10-01 17:37:59 <Eliel> runeks: that "address" word gives me a feeling you're doing something unnecessary there.
 538 2012-10-01 17:38:34 <Eliel> runeks: please describe in more detail what this "32_byte_address" means.
 539 2012-10-01 17:38:40 <runeks> oh. i mean 32_byte_key
 540 2012-10-01 17:39:33 <runeks> the 32 byte key must be right, because the first part of the private key corresponds to what brainwallet.org says it should be. so I figure it must be the checksumming step I've gotten wrong (since it's only the last characters in the resulting base58-encoded private key that are wrong)
 541 2012-10-01 17:40:07 <runeks> *first part of private key _in base58 encoding_
 542 2012-10-01 17:40:09 <Eliel> runeks: how many characters are wrong?
 543 2012-10-01 17:40:19 <runeks> it's 5KJvsngHeMpm884wtkJNzQGaCErckhHJBGFsvd3VyK5qMTWmw7V
 544 2012-10-01 17:40:35 lggr has joined
 545 2012-10-01 17:40:39 <runeks> should be 5KJvsngHeMpm884wtkJNzQGaCErckhHJBGFsvd3VyK5qMZXj3hS
 546 2012-10-01 17:40:49 gfinn has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 547 2012-10-01 17:40:51 <isis1> Almost forgot to mention...  The secret to generate the key isn't just the payment card.  It's the payment card+pin.  This allows you to set spending limits for times you are AFK, don't have your smartphone handy or whatever.\
 548 2012-10-01 17:41:01 Detritus has joined
 549 2012-10-01 17:41:14 <runeks> Eliel: so 6 characters
 550 2012-10-01 17:41:26 <Joric> runeks, looks like sha256('correct horse battery staple')
 551 2012-10-01 17:41:46 <isis1> Ideally you would configure all of that with a service provider.
 552 2012-10-01 17:41:56 <runeks> isis1: yep. that's the private key.
 553 2012-10-01 17:42:02 <runeks> don't tell anyone!
 554 2012-10-01 17:43:01 <isis1> In the future I plan to move the signing function to an EMV compatible card and keep the private key truly private.
 555 2012-10-01 17:43:06 <Joric> runeks, try double sha256-ng bytes not hex strings
 556 2012-10-01 17:43:34 <Joric> oh you got 00000000 as checksum i just checked
 557 2012-10-01 17:43:43 <Joric> something went wrong on your side
 558 2012-10-01 17:43:54 <isis1> I just need to figure out how to quickly get a list of unspent txouts for a given address.  That's the ONLY reason I'm going with the alert system now.
 559 2012-10-01 17:44:08 <runeks> i'm writing it in C so it is bytes. I'm using the exact same function to add the "version byte" in front of the data and the checksum to the data as I'm using for the (public key) address, and the address comes out fine.
 560 2012-10-01 17:44:13 <kjj_> isis1: wait, what?
 561 2012-10-01 17:44:21 <Joric> runeks, 5KJvsngHeMpm884wtkJNzQGaCErckhHJBGFsvd3VyK5qMTWmw7V -> 80c4bbcb1fbec99d65bf59d85c8cb62ee2db963f0fe106f483d9afa73bd4e39a8a00000000
 562 2012-10-01 17:44:45 <runeks> Joric: hmm.
 563 2012-10-01 17:45:01 <Eliel> isis1: ... then add an RPC call to do that. There might be a patch for one already.
 564 2012-10-01 17:45:07 <gavinandresen> isis1: OK.  Well, if you trust that the merchant isn't hacked or dishonest and that the merchant->gateway communication is secure, then having the gateway generate a signature from the private key and broadcasting that signature is the right thing to do.  Then your clients just look for messages signed with their keys.
 565 2012-10-01 17:45:13 <Eliel> the shop's bitcoind can do that perfectly well.
 566 2012-10-01 17:45:57 <isis1> Ok let me elaborate on that last one a bit.  Right now as far as I can tell, there is no way to get a list of unspent txout's for an address that is not currently sitting in my wallet.  Thus signing has to be done by an external wallet application.
 567 2012-10-01 17:45:58 <gavinandresen> isis1: you still have the problem of how to combat denial-of-service attacks by somebody flooding your network with bogus signatures, but you could have a master key/signature, too.
 568 2012-10-01 17:46:36 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 569 2012-10-01 17:46:59 <Eliel> isis1: then fix that by adding that feature, no need to require the user to run a bitcoind with public access to it.
 570 2012-10-01 17:47:44 <jgarzik> bleh
 571 2012-10-01 17:47:45 toffoo has quit ()
 572 2012-10-01 17:47:45 <isis1> The ideal would be to have an application that says for any given addresses(s) what are then unspent's that total n amount?
 573 2012-10-01 17:47:51 <jgarzik> pondered doing a bitcoin router in C
 574 2012-10-01 17:47:56 <jgarzik> to make block shovelling really fast
 575 2012-10-01 17:48:02 <jgarzik> looks like CBitcoin is quite useless
 576 2012-10-01 17:48:13 Arch_Coldfire has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 577 2012-10-01 17:48:20 <jgarzik> so time for Yet Another Bitcoin Implementation
 578 2012-10-01 17:48:27 ahbritto__ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 579 2012-10-01 17:48:52 <isis1> This way the merchant or his service provider could ask the card for a list of public bitcoin addresses that the card can sign then craft the transaction and hand it to the card.
 580 2012-10-01 17:49:01 <isis1> At which point the card would sign it.
 581 2012-10-01 17:49:04 <Eliel> isis1: it should be reasonably easy to extend bitcoind so it keeps a database of unspent txouts for every address in existence that has any.
 582 2012-10-01 17:49:13 Arch_Coldfire has joined
 583 2012-10-01 17:49:25 <kjj_> heh.  everything is reasonably easy when you don't have to do it yourself
 584 2012-10-01 17:49:34 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: does language matter?  Seems like pynode running on a box with lots of memory so all blocks are in ram would be plenty fast enough
 585 2012-10-01 17:49:36 tonikt2 is now known as tonikt
 586 2012-10-01 17:49:38 <Eliel> kjj_: certainly easier than this alert hack.
 587 2012-10-01 17:49:43 <isis1> @Eliel, unfortunately at the moment that is beyond my ability to do in C.
 588 2012-10-01 17:50:21 <Eliel> didn't someone alraedy write a patch to do this some time ago?
 589 2012-10-01 17:50:32 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: ... or maybe 11 pynodes, with the blocks stored in memcached ....
 590 2012-10-01 17:50:53 <isis1> As far as I know it only returns unspenttx for addresses currently in your wallet.
 591 2012-10-01 17:51:09 <isis1> I'd love to figure out how blockchain explorer does it.
 592 2012-10-01 17:51:17 <runeks> Joric: now it works for me. was messing up wrt. to buffer sizes. thanks! :)
 593 2012-10-01 17:51:18 lggr has joined
 594 2012-10-01 17:51:21 <Eliel> isis1: checkout bitcoin-abe
 595 2012-10-01 17:51:22 <gavinandresen> isis1: yes, there is no index of arbitrary address to outpoints in the reference implementation.
 596 2012-10-01 17:52:29 <runeks> jgarzik: what do you mean with "block shovelling".
 597 2012-10-01 17:53:40 <isis1> @Eliel that's great, but my requirement is for C or Java.  That's a business requirement from the folks paying the bills on this one.
 598 2012-10-01 17:53:59 <isis1> bitcoin-abe is python
 599 2012-10-01 17:54:43 <isis1> @Gavin, what would be involved in creating an index like that?
 600 2012-10-01 17:54:50 Arch_Coldfire has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 601 2012-10-01 17:54:59 <Eliel> isis1: should be reasonably easy to write a C or Java version of the critical functions.
 602 2012-10-01 17:55:08 Insty is now known as Insti
 603 2012-10-01 17:55:13 L8 has left ("PHP Fatal Error: Allowed IRC Time Exhausted")
 604 2012-10-01 17:55:33 <Eliel> isis1: bitcoin-abe is an example of how to do it.
 605 2012-10-01 17:56:06 <Eliel> not a great example, mind you, but it works.
 606 2012-10-01 17:56:26 <isis1> If gavin thinks it's easy and can point me in the direction to get started I'll go that route instead.  But at the moment, everyone I've talked to so far says it's going to require more computing power than we have at our disposal.
 607 2012-10-01 17:56:50 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: pynode script verification is just too slow
 608 2012-10-01 17:57:02 <isis1> Easy =< 40 hours to get a prototype going for a moderately competent programmer.
 609 2012-10-01 17:57:16 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: SignatureHash() requires copying CTransaction to modify
 610 2012-10-01 17:57:52 <jgarzik> for fast block relaying, I would want balls-out fastest implementation  :)
 611 2012-10-01 17:57:58 <jgarzik> C makes the "sendfile block" trick a lot easier
 612 2012-10-01 17:58:10 <kjj_> isis1: get a database package, write a schema, and start reading the block files
 613 2012-10-01 17:58:16 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 614 2012-10-01 17:58:59 <jgarzik> even if the ref client were willing to change the block file format to match that of the "block" message, it is still a mess to plug sendfile'd data into the current scheme
 615 2012-10-01 17:59:36 <jgarzik> alternatively, you could leave the block file format the same, but send out the header with MSG_MORE.  still very messy for the current ref client.
 616 2012-10-01 17:59:39 <isis1> @kjj_ seems like most of what I need is here, otherwise transactions couldn't validate.  Just wish I could find an entrance point.
 617 2012-10-01 18:00:08 <isis1> How long does it take to scan the blockchain currently for an unspenttx, for instance during the privkeyimport?
 618 2012-10-01 18:00:46 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: oh, 'shovelling blocks' includes signature verification?
 619 2012-10-01 18:00:50 <kjj_> isis1: you can borrow the bitcoin code, but the index you want isn't there, and adding it to the node is probably more work than writing something totally different
 620 2012-10-01 18:01:09 <kjj_> isis1: usually, several minutes to scan the blocks for a new key
 621 2012-10-01 18:01:23 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: if you want to turn around a block, verified
 622 2012-10-01 18:01:30 <isis1> Ideally I'
 623 2012-10-01 18:01:41 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: it is even faster to relay the block without script verification, I grant
 624 2012-10-01 18:01:54 lggr has joined
 625 2012-10-01 18:02:03 <kjj_> lol.  if you believe the foundation trolls on the forums, there are like 90 people on the board
 626 2012-10-01 18:02:10 <Eliel> isis1: one solution that is hacky and gets slower with big wallets is to temporarily add the addresses in question to the wallet and rescan.
 627 2012-10-01 18:02:27 <jgarzik> another option is a hybrid:  script verify memory pool TX's, and cache the result (signature cache)
 628 2012-10-01 18:02:30 <Eliel> isis1: but I suspect that won't really fly long term.
 629 2012-10-01 18:02:39 <jgarzik> and then DON'T verify any TX scripts not cached
 630 2012-10-01 18:02:49 <jgarzik> that would verify -most- TX's, while resulting in small turnaround time
 631 2012-10-01 18:05:52 <isis1> @kjj_ I'm not sure what the schema would look like on something like that.  Guess I could talk to a data modeler.  We have multiple tx_in's mapping to multiple tx_out's with arbitrary script telling us whether or not is has been spent.
 632 2012-10-01 18:07:01 <isis1> However I guess it wouldn't have been included in a block if it was invalid.  But only looking at blocks and not just tx's leaves us open to a potential double spend since the spend may have occured but not been included in a block yet.
 633 2012-10-01 18:07:30 Marf has joined
 634 2012-10-01 18:07:52 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 635 2012-10-01 18:07:54 ThomasV has joined
 636 2012-10-01 18:08:25 pusle has quit ()
 637 2012-10-01 18:09:02 <isis1> @Eliel, thats a good idea but problematic because it could mix funds if several people were doing it at once.  You would have to create a seperate & temporary wallet, import the keys, scan the block chain, return the unspent tx's and then delete the wallet.
 638 2012-10-01 18:09:44 <Eliel> isis1: look at the schema bitcoin-abe uses. It stores the data into a database.
 639 2012-10-01 18:10:06 <isis1> Remember the ideal for payment processing when you're standing in line is 30 seconds or less.  2 minutes tops, but by then the cashier has probably had you swipe the card 5 times ;)
 640 2012-10-01 18:10:46 mammique has left ("Ex-Chat")
 641 2012-10-01 18:11:52 lggr has joined
 642 2012-10-01 18:12:17 Joric has quit ()
 643 2012-10-01 18:12:26 <Eliel> isis1: sipa's ultraprune implementation could be a good starting point actually. It only stores unspent txout data. you'd only need to add an index that maps bitcoin-address -> list of txouts
 644 2012-10-01 18:13:52 asa1024 has joined
 645 2012-10-01 18:14:08 <isis1> Hmm thats something i never thought of before.
 646 2012-10-01 18:14:15 <isis1> I'll look into it.  Have a link?
 647 2012-10-01 18:14:24 <Eliel> isis1: ultraprune is an optimization that's most likely going into bitcoind 0.8. Improves both disk usage as well as synchronization speed.
 648 2012-10-01 18:14:44 <Eliel> I expect it's in sipa's github repo. I lack a link though
 649 2012-10-01 18:14:53 <jgarzik> and scalability
 650 2012-10-01 18:15:05 <isis1> I'll take a look.
 651 2012-10-01 18:15:19 freakazoid has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 652 2012-10-01 18:16:25 <isis1> Searched and saw no reference to ultraprune @ github.com/sipa
 653 2012-10-01 18:16:40 gfinn has joined
 654 2012-10-01 18:17:03 <jgarzik> isis1: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1677
 655 2012-10-01 18:17:19 Motest031 has quit ()
 656 2012-10-01 18:17:29 <molecular> https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/tree/ultraprune
 657 2012-10-01 18:17:52 PhantomSpark has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 658 2012-10-01 18:18:04 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 659 2012-10-01 18:19:26 <isis1> TYVM
 660 2012-10-01 18:21:34 lggr has joined
 661 2012-10-01 18:23:14 kreal has quit ()
 662 2012-10-01 18:24:21 BlackPrapor has joined
 663 2012-10-01 18:25:41 <isis1> Dang I wish there was a source map.  I'm trying to follow   uiInterface.NotifyAlertChanged(GetHash(), CT_NEW) so i can do something else with the alert, but it disappears into a black hole at that point.
 664 2012-10-01 18:25:51 <kjj_> grep
 665 2012-10-01 18:26:09 Eslbaer has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 666 2012-10-01 18:26:30 <Eliel> isis1: if you cloned the git repo, use git grep
 667 2012-10-01 18:26:39 <Eliel> isis1: it'll automatically grip all files.
 668 2012-10-01 18:26:43 <Eliel> umm grep
 669 2012-10-01 18:27:16 PhantomSpark has joined
 670 2012-10-01 18:27:48 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 671 2012-10-01 18:30:02 MC1984 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 672 2012-10-01 18:30:33 <TD> jgarzik: you mean like a load balancing proxy type thing? shads was implementing one of those in bitcoinj before he disappeared
 673 2012-10-01 18:30:37 <TD> he did a bunch of optimizations for it
 674 2012-10-01 18:31:23 <jgarzik> TD: a C program that is the bitcoin analogue of a "core / border router"
 675 2012-10-01 18:31:27 denisx has joined
 676 2012-10-01 18:31:58 PhantomSpark has joined
 677 2012-10-01 18:32:00 <jgarzik> TD: reference client serves this purpose reasonably well, but I think it can be done better with a wallet-free implementation focused purely on tx/block serving
 678 2012-10-01 18:32:03 <TD> what i'd like to see is a program that basically handles relaying of blocks and transactions but doesn't do any processing itself. it'd use a bitcoin node on the backend to ensure it only relays valid stuff
 679 2012-10-01 18:32:06 <TD> yes
 680 2012-10-01 18:32:07 <TD> indeed
 681 2012-10-01 18:32:15 <TD> i wanted to write one. never got around to it
 682 2012-10-01 18:32:38 <jgarzik> TD: well, I would want my beast to verify
 683 2012-10-01 18:32:45 lggr has joined
 684 2012-10-01 18:32:46 <jgarzik> TD: a signature cache gets you 75% there
 685 2012-10-01 18:32:52 <TD> then how is it different to a regular full node
 686 2012-10-01 18:32:56 freakazoid has joined
 687 2012-10-01 18:33:08 <jgarzik> TD: no wallet, several optimizations to increase relay speed
 688 2012-10-01 18:33:16 <TD> why does no wallet make a difference?
 689 2012-10-01 18:33:37 <jgarzik> TD: there are wallet checks in the ref client
 690 2012-10-01 18:33:44 <jgarzik> TD: core router doesn't need those
 691 2012-10-01 18:33:45 agricocb has joined
 692 2012-10-01 18:33:52 <TD> yeah, but i doubt they impact performance much if the wallet is empty
 693 2012-10-01 18:34:46 PhantomSpark has quit (2!~kvirc@pool-71-251-16-25.nycmny.fios.verizon.net|Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 694 2012-10-01 18:34:55 <jgarzik> of course, I could always strip down the C++ client to bare bones, and change the block file format
 695 2012-10-01 18:35:04 <jgarzik> but it's more fun to write from scratch ;p
 696 2012-10-01 18:36:37 harkon has joined
 697 2012-10-01 18:38:29 harkon has left ()
 698 2012-10-01 18:38:42 Belkaar has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 699 2012-10-01 18:38:49 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 700 2012-10-01 18:40:12 Belkaar has joined
 701 2012-10-01 18:42:44 lggr has joined
 702 2012-10-01 18:48:32 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 703 2012-10-01 18:48:33 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 704 2012-10-01 18:48:56 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 705 2012-10-01 18:49:14 molecular has joined
 706 2012-10-01 18:51:25 MC1984 has joined
 707 2012-10-01 18:52:47 lggr has joined
 708 2012-10-01 18:54:44 freakazoid has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 709 2012-10-01 18:55:59 [\\\] has joined
 710 2012-10-01 18:56:04 MBS has quit (Read error: No route to host)
 711 2012-10-01 18:59:57 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 712 2012-10-01 19:00:16 drizztbsd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 713 2012-10-01 19:00:38 MBS has joined
 714 2012-10-01 19:03:00 lggr has joined
 715 2012-10-01 19:03:28 <kjj_> jgarzik: I think you are wrong on the forums.  Clearly, becase one bounty worked, all bountys everywhere for every thing must also work.  QED.
 716 2012-10-01 19:03:37 torsthaldo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 717 2012-10-01 19:03:43 CluckCreek has joined
 718 2012-10-01 19:04:01 <jgarzik> ;-)
 719 2012-10-01 19:04:01 <ThomasV> kjj_: someone is wrong on the internet?
 720 2012-10-01 19:04:21 <Diablo-D3> kjj_: best logic ever
 721 2012-10-01 19:04:30 root2_ is now known as root2
 722 2012-10-01 19:05:08 <kjj_> also, I'm surprised that it took several days for them to get around to the "if we aren't right, why is everyone calling us trolls?" argument
 723 2012-10-01 19:05:27 [\\\] has quit ()
 724 2012-10-01 19:07:24 <isis1> OMG what is implementing uiInterface.NotifyAlertChanged ?  This is seriously starting to turn into a rabbit hole for me.
 725 2012-10-01 19:07:25 <gmaxwell> hah
 726 2012-10-01 19:07:40 <gmaxwell> kjj_: more of the foundation thread?
 727 2012-10-01 19:07:47 <kjj_> isis1: qt/clientmodel.cpp
 728 2012-10-01 19:08:29 <kjj_> gmaxwell: totally.  I'm thinking of posting a link to:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA0aGI0
 729 2012-10-01 19:08:56 <isis1> Thanks was losing my mind there for a min.  I somehow thought that was only for the GUI client.
 730 2012-10-01 19:09:06 <kjj_> heh.  it is only for the GUI client
 731 2012-10-01 19:09:26 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 732 2012-10-01 19:09:39 freakazoid has joined
 733 2012-10-01 19:11:09 BlackPrapor has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
 734 2012-10-01 19:13:04 lggr has joined
 735 2012-10-01 19:14:32 BlackPrapor has joined
 736 2012-10-01 19:19:28 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 737 2012-10-01 19:20:15 <jgarzik> ultimately the BF furor boils down to "how dare you declare yourselves the spokesman of Anonymous?  Anonymous has no spokesperson, that's the whole point!"
 738 2012-10-01 19:20:31 <kjj_> jgarzik: heh, exactly
 739 2012-10-01 19:20:31 <jgarzik> it's not the bogeyman, but only time and action will prove or disprove that
 740 2012-10-01 19:22:11 Detritus has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
 741 2012-10-01 19:22:41 stamit has joined
 742 2012-10-01 19:23:16 lggr has joined
 743 2012-10-01 19:23:21 maaku has joined
 744 2012-10-01 19:24:29 D34TH has joined
 745 2012-10-01 19:28:57 <sipa> kjj_, isis1: yes and no, it's also implemented in noui.cpp
 746 2012-10-01 19:29:16 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 747 2012-10-01 19:29:46 freakazoid has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 748 2012-10-01 19:31:09 <kjj_> sipa: I don't see it in noui.cpp.  Don't see much of anything in there, really
 749 2012-10-01 19:31:35 <TD> gavinandresen: i'm wondering if you have any estimates on when the pull request backlog might get cleared, if you're going to be able to focus on development full time post-foundation-launch
 750 2012-10-01 19:32:50 Detritus has joined
 751 2012-10-01 19:33:17 lggr has joined
 752 2012-10-01 19:33:25 pusle has joined
 753 2012-10-01 19:33:27 <gavinandresen> TD: haven't had time to estimate.  And yes, I should be able to focus on development after a couple of post-foundation-launch technical items get done
 754 2012-10-01 19:34:27 <gavinandresen> TD: there seems to be consensus that a 0.7.1 release should happen soon, to get the URI bug fix released
 755 2012-10-01 19:34:39 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: are you doing that or am I?
 756 2012-10-01 19:34:56 <gavinandresen> "We" will do that in mainline
 757 2012-10-01 19:35:09 <Luke-Jr> thanks
 758 2012-10-01 19:36:32 <TD> ok, great
 759 2012-10-01 19:37:24 <kinlo> are there any cpu statum miners?
 760 2012-10-01 19:39:36 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 761 2012-10-01 19:42:45 * stamit says hello to the high-quality people.
 762 2012-10-01 19:43:33 lggr has joined
 763 2012-10-01 19:48:31 sgornick has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 764 2012-10-01 19:50:39 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 765 2012-10-01 19:50:49 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 766 2012-10-01 19:51:30 * helo frowns at his low quality abdomen
 767 2012-10-01 19:54:37 sgornick has joined
 768 2012-10-01 19:54:56 lggr has joined
 769 2012-10-01 19:55:47 riush has quit (Quit: leaving)
 770 2012-10-01 19:55:55 riush has joined
 771 2012-10-01 19:55:55 riush has quit (Changing host)
 772 2012-10-01 19:55:55 riush has joined
 773 2012-10-01 19:56:24 agricocb has joined
 774 2012-10-01 19:56:28 Davincij15 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 775 2012-10-01 19:58:04 <stamit> first class, second class, third class...
 776 2012-10-01 19:58:24 <stamit> why is it always like that?
 777 2012-10-01 19:58:31 <sipa> how about i'th class?
 778 2012-10-01 19:58:38 theorbtwo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 779 2012-10-01 19:58:40 <sipa> like the square root of -1
 780 2012-10-01 20:01:03 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 781 2012-10-01 20:01:09 rdponticelli has joined
 782 2012-10-01 20:01:21 theorbtwo has joined
 783 2012-10-01 20:01:34 <stamit> you look like a person of high class, sipa
 784 2012-10-01 20:02:21 <sipa> no no, imaginary class
 785 2012-10-01 20:02:35 <maaku> jgarzik amiller: I pushed a refactoring of the 'bitcoin' sub package of pynode to https://github.com/monetizeio/python-bitcoin
 786 2012-10-01 20:03:29 <maaku> the idea is to separate p2p node and filesystem/database stuff from the basic bitcoin types and protocol logic
 787 2012-10-01 20:04:07 <stamit> sipa: i like those charts, btw. i've looked at them probably hundreds of times
 788 2012-10-01 20:04:08 <maaku> and to refactor it to be a bit more pythonic, rather than a direct port of Satoshi API
 789 2012-10-01 20:05:00 lggr has joined
 790 2012-10-01 20:05:03 <sipa> stamit: i think they are very useful for the few hours they cost to set up :)
 791 2012-10-01 20:10:10 <TD> hmm
 792 2012-10-01 20:10:17 <TD> speed has been rising steadily since july
 793 2012-10-01 20:10:21 <TD> FPGA upgrades kicking into gear, perhaps
 794 2012-10-01 20:10:22 <gmaxwell> sipa: I still want to see ones for testnet3. :P
 795 2012-10-01 20:10:55 tower has quit (Disconnected by services)
 796 2012-10-01 20:11:08 <gmaxwell> TD: even gpu mining is pretty profitable now— would even be profitable at half, so who knows what people have been adding. Used GPUs still sell well on ebay.
 797 2012-10-01 20:11:08 tower has joined
 798 2012-10-01 20:11:20 <TD> hmpmh
 799 2012-10-01 20:11:29 <TD> mining isn't supposed to be very profitable :)
 800 2012-10-01 20:11:48 <TD> but yeah i guess it still has to climb to match the doubling of the exchange rate
 801 2012-10-01 20:12:01 <gmaxwell> TD: well thus the increasing hashrate— it's trying for equlibrium...
 802 2012-10-01 20:12:18 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 803 2012-10-01 20:12:57 <gmaxwell> right, it was unprofitable to gpu mine for just about anyone paying for power at $3 a few months back.. but at $12 it's a little different.
 804 2012-10-01 20:13:38 <gmaxwell> I expect uncertanty about the introduction of ASIC is slowing convergance to unprofitablity.
 805 2012-10-01 20:14:35 <denisx> the rise of the asics are the reason why alot of people do not buy fpgas right now
 806 2012-10-01 20:14:55 <denisx> is the reason
 807 2012-10-01 20:14:57 <sipa> TD, gmaxwell: mining tends to an equilibrium where electricity + hardware costs equal income
 808 2012-10-01 20:15:11 <sipa> but those hardware costs are hard to observe
 809 2012-10-01 20:15:13 lggr has joined
 810 2012-10-01 20:15:44 <sipa> gmaxwell: right, testnet hashrate
 811 2012-10-01 20:16:42 <sipa> not sure my current algorithm is stable enough for that
 812 2012-10-01 20:18:30 <gmaxwell> sipa: :P thats a little bit why I was suggesting doing it.
 813 2012-10-01 20:18:33 <BlueMatt> TD: so I pushed new copies of the first few commits to a newscripts branch, I havent gotten into the FullPrunedBlockStore stuff yet
 814 2012-10-01 20:19:22 sneak has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 815 2012-10-01 20:19:33 sneak has joined
 816 2012-10-01 20:19:34 sneak has quit (Changing host)
 817 2012-10-01 20:19:34 sneak has joined
 818 2012-10-01 20:19:42 <TD> thanks
 819 2012-10-01 20:20:17 <TD> will take a look in the next few days
 820 2012-10-01 20:20:29 <BlueMatt> sure
 821 2012-10-01 20:21:03 <sipa> gmaxwell: i once did may a version that had a simulated perfectly constant & known hashrate
 822 2012-10-01 20:21:03 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 823 2012-10-01 20:21:57 <sipa> gmaxwell: bitcoin.sipa.be/simulation
 824 2012-10-01 20:22:01 <sipa> it's outdated though
 825 2012-10-01 20:22:56 toffoo has joined
 826 2012-10-01 20:23:35 <jgarzik> maaku: sigh
 827 2012-10-01 20:24:01 <jgarzik> maaku: it would have been nicer if you would have coordinated a bit more
 828 2012-10-01 20:24:27 knotwork_ has joined
 829 2012-10-01 20:24:39 <jgarzik> maaku: the clear intention was always to build python-bitcoin -- but you don't build a library with 1000+ gadgets, none of which have an immediate user outside of tests
 830 2012-10-01 20:25:12 <jgarzik> maaku: I would have been more than happy to split out python-bitcoin and take pull requests
 831 2012-10-01 20:25:18 lggr has joined
 832 2012-10-01 20:27:23 knotwork has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 833 2012-10-01 20:28:35 <maaku> jgarzik: this is what i need for my own projects and no ambition beyond that
 834 2012-10-01 20:30:56 jurov is now known as jurov|away
 835 2012-10-01 20:31:38 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 836 2012-10-01 20:32:14 freakazoid has joined
 837 2012-10-01 20:35:38 lggr has joined
 838 2012-10-01 20:38:17 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
 839 2012-10-01 20:40:33 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 840 2012-10-01 20:43:01 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 841 2012-10-01 20:43:57 Belkaar has quit (Changing host)
 842 2012-10-01 20:43:57 Belkaar has joined
 843 2012-10-01 20:45:15 ovidiusoft has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 844 2012-10-01 20:46:25 lggr has joined
 845 2012-10-01 20:52:32 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 846 2012-10-01 20:56:22 <amiller> maaku, do you have a pynode branch that uses your python-bitcoin tools?
 847 2012-10-01 20:56:43 lggr has joined
 848 2012-10-01 20:56:47 <maaku> yes, but it's got proprietary stuff mixed in with it, so it's not public
 849 2012-10-01 20:58:56 arij has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 850 2012-10-01 21:01:14 <maaku> i hope to factor that out on its own in the future so i can share it of course, but I've got a lot on my plate already : \
 851 2012-10-01 21:02:58 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 852 2012-10-01 21:03:46 ThomasV has joined
 853 2012-10-01 21:06:39 lggr has joined
 854 2012-10-01 21:07:40 setkeh has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 855 2012-10-01 21:07:50 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 856 2012-10-01 21:13:36 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 857 2012-10-01 21:17:06 LolcustBackup has joined
 858 2012-10-01 21:17:37 lggr has joined
 859 2012-10-01 21:22:50 stamit has quit (Quit: stamit)
 860 2012-10-01 21:23:36 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 861 2012-10-01 21:24:10 arij has joined
 862 2012-10-01 21:24:34 arij is now known as Guest8102
 863 2012-10-01 21:25:04 Guest8102 is now known as arij
 864 2012-10-01 21:25:11 arij has quit (Changing host)
 865 2012-10-01 21:25:11 arij has joined
 866 2012-10-01 21:26:33 LolcustBackup has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 867 2012-10-01 21:27:12 <yellowhat> could someone be so kind to mine a few (6) blocks testnet3 for me?
 868 2012-10-01 21:27:29 lggr has joined
 869 2012-10-01 21:28:55 OneEyed has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8)
 870 2012-10-01 21:29:05 <lianj> yellowhat: maybe better use testnet in a box
 871 2012-10-01 21:29:38 <yellowhat> its just a matter of laizness to be honest. i need my fauchet coins confirmed.
 872 2012-10-01 21:29:49 <lianj> ah ok :D
 873 2012-10-01 21:29:52 <kjj_> ha!
 874 2012-10-01 21:30:00 OneEyed has joined
 875 2012-10-01 21:30:01 <yellowhat> also the app i am testing cannot simply be pointed to a custom testnet that would be real work
 876 2012-10-01 21:30:16 OneEyed has quit (Client Quit)
 877 2012-10-01 21:30:39 <lianj> testnet in a box isnt custom
 878 2012-10-01 21:30:43 OneEyed has joined
 879 2012-10-01 21:31:46 <gmaxwell> yellowhat: testnet3 is actively mined.
 880 2012-10-01 21:32:26 <yellowhat> it is? well, going to sleep then did not get enough in the last days. maybe someone will mine while i sleep if its actively mined
 881 2012-10-01 21:33:16 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 882 2012-10-01 21:34:06 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 883 2012-10-01 21:34:55 bakh has joined
 884 2012-10-01 21:35:25 <gmaxwell> yellowhat: er, how many blocks do you see?
 885 2012-10-01 21:35:38 <gmaxwell> 31715
 886 2012-10-01 21:36:13 pusle has quit ()
 887 2012-10-01 21:37:11 lggr has joined
 888 2012-10-01 21:38:07 <yellowhat> im on height 31715 no blocks last 15 minutes at least
 889 2012-10-01 21:43:02 knotwork_ is now known as knotwork
 890 2012-10-01 21:43:08 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 891 2012-10-01 21:43:50 <jgarzik> getheaders 42001 to 00000000000000000000
 892 2012-10-01 21:43:52 <yellowhat> great a block :)
 893 2012-10-01 21:43:58 <jgarzik> cool... somebody is actually using getheaders on mainnet
 894 2012-10-01 21:45:59 <lianj> which useragent?
 895 2012-10-01 21:46:52 <sipa> jgarzik: BitcoinJ does
 896 2012-10-01 21:47:01 <sipa> for blocks before wallet creation
 897 2012-10-01 21:47:08 lggr has joined
 898 2012-10-01 21:48:27 freakazoid has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 899 2012-10-01 21:50:16 sgstair has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 900 2012-10-01 21:50:41 sgstair has joined
 901 2012-10-01 21:51:40 Raccoon` has joined
 902 2012-10-01 21:52:25 ForceMajeure_ has joined
 903 2012-10-01 21:52:30 Raccoon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 904 2012-10-01 21:52:30 Raccoon` is now known as Raccoon
 905 2012-10-01 21:53:39 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 906 2012-10-01 21:54:05 ForceMajeure has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 907 2012-10-01 21:55:25 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
 908 2012-10-01 21:56:30 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 909 2012-10-01 21:57:13 lggr has joined
 910 2012-10-01 21:59:11 freakazoid has joined
 911 2012-10-01 21:59:48 bakh has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 912 2012-10-01 22:00:08 bakh has joined
 913 2012-10-01 22:01:23 BlackPrapor has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
 914 2012-10-01 22:02:10 Gladamas has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 915 2012-10-01 22:02:21 Gladamas has joined
 916 2012-10-01 22:02:55 denisx_ has joined
 917 2012-10-01 22:03:22 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 918 2012-10-01 22:06:20 BlackPrapor has joined
 919 2012-10-01 22:06:31 paraipan has joined
 920 2012-10-01 22:06:54 lggr has joined
 921 2012-10-01 22:07:06 ThomasV has joined
 922 2012-10-01 22:08:33 upb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 923 2012-10-01 22:08:47 BlackPrapor has quit (Client Quit)
 924 2012-10-01 22:09:23 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 925 2012-10-01 22:10:14 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 926 2012-10-01 22:11:09 stamit has joined
 927 2012-10-01 22:13:14 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 928 2012-10-01 22:13:26 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
 929 2012-10-01 22:13:28 robocoin has quit (Quit: ô_o)
 930 2012-10-01 22:13:47 JZavala has joined
 931 2012-10-01 22:15:38 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 932 2012-10-01 22:16:37 isis1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 933 2012-10-01 22:16:39 lggr has joined
 934 2012-10-01 22:17:33 isis1 has joined
 935 2012-10-01 22:19:36 bakh has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 936 2012-10-01 22:20:54 MC1984 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 937 2012-10-01 22:22:45 aq83 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 938 2012-10-01 22:22:52 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 939 2012-10-01 22:25:52 isis1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 940 2012-10-01 22:26:01 isis1 has joined
 941 2012-10-01 22:26:29 lggr has joined
 942 2012-10-01 22:29:34 setkeh has joined
 943 2012-10-01 22:32:09 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 944 2012-10-01 22:32:53 agricocb has joined
 945 2012-10-01 22:33:49 isis1 has quit (Read error: No route to host)
 946 2012-10-01 22:34:26 copumpkin has joined
 947 2012-10-01 22:34:39 isis has joined
 948 2012-10-01 22:36:10 runeks has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 949 2012-10-01 22:36:10 lggr has joined
 950 2012-10-01 22:36:20 isis has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 951 2012-10-01 22:36:25 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 952 2012-10-01 22:36:34 upb has joined
 953 2012-10-01 22:36:35 upb has quit (Changing host)
 954 2012-10-01 22:36:35 upb has joined
 955 2012-10-01 22:36:56 isis has joined
 956 2012-10-01 22:37:43 Cory has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 957 2012-10-01 22:37:46 Pasha has joined
 958 2012-10-01 22:38:05 LolcustBackup has joined
 959 2012-10-01 22:38:08 Marf has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 960 2012-10-01 22:38:23 asoltys has quit (Quit: leaving)
 961 2012-10-01 22:39:58 Pasha is now known as Cory
 962 2012-10-01 22:42:29 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 963 2012-10-01 22:45:52 lggr has joined
 964 2012-10-01 22:46:18 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 965 2012-10-01 22:47:28 stamit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 966 2012-10-01 22:50:02 aq83 has joined
 967 2012-10-01 22:50:52 stamit has joined
 968 2012-10-01 22:52:09 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 969 2012-10-01 22:55:28 lggr has joined
 970 2012-10-01 22:59:08 theorbtwo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 971 2012-10-01 23:01:36 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 972 2012-10-01 23:05:03 lggr has joined
 973 2012-10-01 23:09:36 Cory has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 974 2012-10-01 23:09:44 JZavala has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 975 2012-10-01 23:10:24 freakazoid has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 976 2012-10-01 23:11:09 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 977 2012-10-01 23:12:52 Cory has joined
 978 2012-10-01 23:13:16 theorbtwo has joined
 979 2012-10-01 23:13:57 tobtc has joined
 980 2012-10-01 23:14:01 tobtc has left ()
 981 2012-10-01 23:14:42 lggr has joined
 982 2012-10-01 23:14:50 denisx_ has quit (Quit: denisx_)
 983 2012-10-01 23:19:11 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
 984 2012-10-01 23:19:43 Karmaon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 985 2012-10-01 23:20:47 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 986 2012-10-01 23:21:22 Karmaon has joined
 987 2012-10-01 23:23:05 B0g4r7__ has joined
 988 2012-10-01 23:24:15 lggr has joined
 989 2012-10-01 23:26:07 freakazoid has joined
 990 2012-10-01 23:26:38 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 991 2012-10-01 23:26:38 B0g4r7__ is now known as B0g4r7
 992 2012-10-01 23:30:52 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 993 2012-10-01 23:33:46 lggr has joined
 994 2012-10-01 23:38:40 Karmaon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 995 2012-10-01 23:39:24 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 996 2012-10-01 23:39:54 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 997 2012-10-01 23:43:12 lggr has joined
 998 2012-10-01 23:43:20 theorbtwo has joined
 999 2012-10-01 23:50:13 lggr has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1000 2012-10-01 23:52:54 EasyAt is now known as !~Easy@81.17.31.43|EasyAt
1001 2012-10-01 23:53:55 lggr has joined