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  7 2012-10-27 00:47:43 <D34TH> jgarzik, http://www.rasterbar.com/libtorrent_blog/2012/10/asynchronous-disk-io/
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 19 2012-10-27 01:21:44 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: finally got around to reading that ssl in nonbrowser paper instead of just the summary and faq for it
 20 2012-10-27 01:21:57 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: and you were wrong. It does make me angry. ;p
 21 2012-10-27 01:22:23 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: I'm just undecided as to who to be angry at, the people designing/implementing those convoluted/broken apis or the people not reading the docs for them :(
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 32 2012-10-27 01:55:02 <orion> How easily can bitcoin block generation be parallelized?
 33 2012-10-27 01:58:20 <Luke-Jr> …
 34 2012-10-27 01:58:22 <Luke-Jr> it already is
 35 2012-10-27 02:00:52 <jgarzik> D34TH: yep
 36 2012-10-27 02:01:03 <jgarzik> D34TH: glibc implements aio_xxx internally as a thread pool, IIRC
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 39 2012-10-27 02:03:49 <orion> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/adapteva/parallella-a-supercomputer-for-everyone
 40 2012-10-27 02:04:05 <orion> This will make bitcoin generation interesting.
 41 2012-10-27 02:08:22 <copumpkin> I'm not sure it will change much
 42 2012-10-27 02:08:25 <copumpkin> for bitcoin
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 84 2012-10-27 04:04:55 <amiller> jgarzik, regarding your analysis of the analysis of bitcoin, "seems likely to introduce statistically significant changes in the results."
 85 2012-10-27 04:05:42 <amiller> that's a strong statement and i don't have the slightest idea how to fill in the gap, what do you mean by that?
 86 2012-10-27 04:07:05 <amiller> do you mean that if we asked for mtgox's data we could contribute an analysis that contradicts their estimates?
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 88 2012-10-27 04:08:25 <gmaxwell> amiller: that seems really likely to me, even if thats not what Jeff was saying.
 89 2012-10-27 04:09:43 <jgarzik> amiller: no I meant that underlying assumptions as stated were invalid, and the lack of analysis related to cold storage and web wallets seemed likely to materially impact results
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 91 2012-10-27 04:10:23 <gmaxwell> E.g. they would have assumed X btc of mtgox stored funds was inactive, MTGOX data _will_ show that some portion of that coin is actively moving between customers.  This will change the results. 30 day mtgox volume is on the order of a million btc these days.
 92 2012-10-27 04:11:04 <gmaxwell> (and thats just the exchange volume, no clue on the like currency customer to customer transfer volume)
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 94 2012-10-27 04:13:34 <amiller> can you elaborate on how an analysis of cold storage would change their results? besides that - web wallets seems like the most practical way to provide a compelling counter example, that would be a measure of the number of transactions conducted nominally in bitcoins, but using a separate transaction mechanism
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108 2012-10-27 04:43:24 <kjj_> so...  signrawtransaction won't work with multisig until pull #1818 is merged in?
109 2012-10-27 04:44:11 <gmaxwell> kjj_: it works with multisig, if you load the multisig scripts.
110 2012-10-27 04:44:38 <kjj_> where do you do that?
111 2012-10-27 04:44:39 <gmaxwell> I wrote up an example here, https://people.xiph.org/~greg/escrowexample.txt and you can see it working.
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113 2012-10-27 04:46:19 <kjj_> I generated my keys offline
114 2012-10-27 04:46:26 <gmaxwell> Yea, so?
115 2012-10-27 04:46:32 <gmaxwell> As you should.
116 2012-10-27 04:47:12 <kjj_> so I did the addmultisigaddressm sent to it
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119 2012-10-27 04:47:53 <kjj_> created the raw transaction, but when I sign it, nothing happens
120 2012-10-27 04:48:23 <gmaxwell> you need to have the inputs specified, and the multisign added on the signer too, I do have an offline example but it's not for a multisign:
121 2012-10-27 04:48:26 <gmaxwell> https://people.xiph.org/~greg/signdemo.txt
122 2012-10-27 04:51:07 <kjj_> I'm not sure that I'm following you here
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124 2012-10-27 04:51:37 <kjj_> which step is different from the normal raw transaction process?
125 2012-10-27 04:52:38 <gmaxwell> the extra argument to the signature that provides the input being spent.
126 2012-10-27 04:53:10 <kjj_> ahh, ok, I think I see it
127 2012-10-27 04:57:37 <kjj_> no, that doesn't do it
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130 2012-10-27 05:01:10 <gmaxwell> hm. I thought it could redeem the darn thing as long as you provided the inputs it needed to sign and had addmultisign it, I thought that aformentioned pull was only required when you didn't addmultisign. Perhaps I am mistaken.
131 2012-10-27 05:01:52 <gmaxwell> If so, if the offline node has a blockchain current enough to see the txn you're trying to spend's inputs you could just 'sendrawtransaction' it to import it. Then it would work like an online node.
132 2012-10-27 05:03:44 <kjj_> This is all on an online node
133 2012-10-27 05:04:06 <kjj_> except for the private keys, I'm just copying and pasting those on the command line
134 2012-10-27 05:04:29 <kjj_> when I do signrawtransaction, it returns the same string that I used for the input
135 2012-10-27 05:05:52 <gmaxwell> Yes, I understood that.
136 2012-10-27 05:06:14 <gmaxwell> It sounds like it's unable to construct the scriptsig because it can't figure out that it owns the input.
137 2012-10-27 05:06:59 <kjj_> odd that it can't figure that out, I created the address using addmultisigaddress
138 2012-10-27 05:07:13 <kjj_> and when I validate it, it shows ismine=true
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177 2012-10-27 08:30:22 <Joric> What the hell is Devcoin (here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=118181) and why they are using the same address scheme?
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179 2012-10-27 08:34:28 <Joric> looks like they are totally incompatible with the main blockchain despite similar looking addresses
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197 2012-10-27 09:37:29 <ibno> why isn't data compressed when sent over the network?
198 2012-10-27 09:38:08 <ibno> wouldn't this create some improvements?
199 2012-10-27 09:40:44 <ibno> I mean, if I just compress my (not complete) blockchain it takes 1.8 G (bzip2) (1.9 with zip), and uncompressed it takes 2.6 G
200 2012-10-27 09:42:06 <bd_> when most of the data is pseudorandom keys and signatures, compression doesn't make much difference. on-disk, of course, there's index data and stuff too though
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202 2012-10-27 09:44:57 <ibno> I understand that, but take the blockchain as an example
203 2012-10-27 10:16:18 <ibno> at least the blockchain torrent could use compression
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211 2012-10-27 11:03:37 <robbak> As they are now allocating the blockchain file in chunks, mostof your 'compression' is probably the nulls at the end of the file. Bloclhain data should not compress
212 2012-10-27 11:07:01 <robbak> (then again, maybe not)
213 2012-10-27 11:09:12 <ibno> what nulls are these nulls?
214 2012-10-27 11:09:29 <ibno> I thought the blockchain file is just all the blocks concatenated
215 2012-10-27 11:10:15 <ibno> and 0xf9 0xbe 0xb4 0xd9 appended in the beginning of each block
216 2012-10-27 11:10:54 <robbak> I think I have got something wrong. But the bitcoin files were getting badly fragmented, so they are now allocated in larger chunks to prevent this.
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218 2012-10-27 11:11:24 <robbak> However, I am wrong, in that the files do contain compressable data, probably indexes.
219 2012-10-27 11:12:27 <ibno> I'm talking about the blockchain files, like blk00001.dat
220 2012-10-27 11:12:48 <robbak> Whether it is a good idea to compress them is another matter. I'll leave that to those who actually made that decision.
221 2012-10-27 11:23:34 <ibno> I don't think the blockfiles contain any indexes
222 2012-10-27 11:24:26 <ibno> those are stored in blkindex.dat
223 2012-10-27 11:27:17 <sipa> the block files themselves are trivially compressible by 25% or so, simply by using a smarter serialization
224 2012-10-27 11:29:16 <sipa> blkindex.dat indeed contained the index, and that should be very compressible - it uses a very inefficient encoding
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228 2012-10-27 11:29:44 <sipa> in 0.8, the block files are indeed allocated in chucks, but the format is the same because of backward compatibility
229 2012-10-27 11:30:52 <ibno> so the block files are basically just the blocks concatenated and 0xf9 0xbe 0xb4 0xd9 appended to each block?
230 2012-10-27 11:31:08 <sipa> prepended
231 2012-10-27 11:31:10 <ibno> and size of the block as a var_int
232 2012-10-27 11:31:20 <sipa> as a uint32, i think
233 2012-10-27 11:31:22 <ibno> yeah right, prepended
234 2012-10-27 11:31:47 <ibno> It can't be a uint32
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236 2012-10-27 11:32:47 <sipa> why not?
237 2012-10-27 11:32:58 <ibno> I'm just doing a hexdump of the file
238 2012-10-27 11:33:21 <ibno> oh, I might be wrong
239 2012-10-27 11:33:37 <ibno> yeah, you are right
240 2012-10-27 11:33:45 <ibno> it's a uint32
241 2012-10-27 11:33:49 <kreal> the blockchain iphone wallet, does it not support &label in bitcoin uri?
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244 2012-10-27 11:36:49 <robbak> Just for fun, I just compressed bootstrap.dat from bittorrent. 2.3 compressed to 1.7 - about 25%.
245 2012-10-27 11:36:59 <kreal> ;(
246 2012-10-27 11:38:01 <robbak> So, worth doing if it is simple, but not worth doing if it is a lot of work or difficult to maintain.
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248 2012-10-27 11:41:34 <ibno> with the bittorrent file, it might take a couple of minutes to compress, but you get them back (and more) by downloading it faster.
249 2012-10-27 11:42:59 <MC1984> any way to store and use the chain in a compressed state
250 2012-10-27 11:43:12 <ibno> I don't think so
251 2012-10-27 11:43:13 <sipa> the 25% i referred to was just using a more compact representation on-disk -- it could be used in the blk000?.dat files as well without problems
252 2012-10-27 11:43:26 <MC1984> some sort of custom segmented compression shit.....?
253 2012-10-27 11:43:46 <robbak> Use a filesystem with a compression layer you can turn on?
254 2012-10-27 11:44:00 <sipa> any zip/bzip2/lzma/... could be done on top of that still
255 2012-10-27 11:44:02 <MC1984> oh yeah
256 2012-10-27 11:44:27 <MC1984> but vast majority dont use FS compression
257 2012-10-27 11:44:33 <MC1984> might be worth it for 25%
258 2012-10-27 11:44:46 <MC1984> spoken like a non-coder
259 2012-10-27 11:45:15 <robbak> Is it? Disk space is dirt cheap. Even SSD disk space is falling fast.
260 2012-10-27 11:45:42 <sipa> robbak: that's part of the reason for not changing the block format
261 2012-10-27 11:46:09 <robbak> )I don't think there are many devs active in -dev, or we'd all have been shot down mintues ago.
262 2012-10-27 11:46:34 <MC1984> greg will be along shortly to smash our dreams
263 2012-10-27 11:46:38 <sipa> robbak: i'm a core dev :)
264 2012-10-27 11:46:56 <robbak> I noticed :{
265 2012-10-27 11:48:20 <sipa> what does :{ mean?
266 2012-10-27 11:49:03 <robbak> wry smile?
267 2012-10-27 11:50:40 <sipa> ok
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276 2012-10-27 12:36:59 <SomeoneWeird> anybody know of any disassemblers that support x64 elf apart from IDA?
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279 2012-10-27 12:40:42 <wumpus> ...objdump -d?
280 2012-10-27 12:45:00 <SomeoneWeird> objdump: can't disassemble for architecture UNKNOWN!
281 2012-10-27 12:45:02 <SomeoneWeird> :c
282 2012-10-27 12:46:46 <sipa> you are talking about em64t/amd64/x86_64/x64, right?
283 2012-10-27 12:47:45 <SomeoneWeird> powerpc
284 2012-10-27 12:47:55 <SomeoneWeird> sorry, shoulda said that
285 2012-10-27 12:48:06 <SomeoneWeird> readelf can read it fine, but doesn't dissasemble (afaik)
286 2012-10-27 12:49:48 <wumpus> you need a ppc objdump
287 2012-10-27 12:50:04 <wumpus> ie, that comes with a cross compiler
288 2012-10-27 12:54:30 <SomeoneWeird> hm thanks that works
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292 2012-10-27 13:11:42 <sipa> enmaku: are you the author of codinginmysleep.com 's articles?
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298 2012-10-27 13:50:57 <MC1984> is atlas really gone?
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317 2012-10-27 15:03:12 dusty__ has joined
318 2012-10-27 15:04:23 <dusty__> hello, I'm trying to get some testnet3 coins but I get an HTTPS error
319 2012-10-27 15:04:28 <dusty__> is it a known problem?
320 2012-10-27 15:04:39 <dusty__> also, can someone send me some test coin, please?
321 2012-10-27 15:05:15 <dusty__> mvFFPDNGMpXjrgWBG7cAq25rkcDhdXQFkq if someone is around
322 2012-10-27 15:05:28 TD has joined
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339 2012-10-27 15:57:00 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: testnet3 support added to picocoin last night
340 2012-10-27 15:57:12 <jgarzik> not that it does anything (yet)
341 2012-10-27 15:57:37 * jgarzik just wrote the TCP network engine, up to the point where messages are verified as passing checksum
342 2012-10-27 15:57:46 <jgarzik> now it's time to communicate!
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361 2012-10-27 16:49:36 <dusty__> jgarzik: do you have some spare testnet3 coins you can send me?
362 2012-10-27 16:49:40 Guest7717 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
363 2012-10-27 16:49:47 <dusty__> the faucet is not working
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367 2012-10-27 17:18:38 <gmaxwell> dusty__: address?
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372 2012-10-27 17:34:22 <D34TH> dusty__, address?
373 2012-10-27 17:35:21 PiZZaMaN2K has quit (away!~PiZZaMaN2@host-72-2-137-170.csinet.net|Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
374 2012-10-27 17:42:25 <D34TH> bluematt: you alive?
375 2012-10-27 17:43:41 maaku has joined
376 2012-10-27 17:45:59 <D34TH> bluematt: when you get a chance your jenkins mingw is missing windows.h thats why the mingw builds are failing
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382 2012-10-27 17:58:09 <yellowhat> does anyone have a quick code example how to send a bitcoin uri intent on android? is it exactly like a regular url http:// except bitcoin: ?
383 2012-10-27 17:59:32 MBS is now known as squatter
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397 2012-10-27 18:31:03 <dusty__> D34TH: mvFFPDNGMpXjrgWBG7cAq25rkcDhdXQFkq
398 2012-10-27 18:31:05 <dusty__> thanks!
399 2012-10-27 18:31:38 <D34TH> sent
400 2012-10-27 18:32:03 BitcoinBaltar has joined
401 2012-10-27 18:38:58 <dusty__> D34TH: mmm nothing yet
402 2012-10-27 18:39:19 <D34TH> Transaction ID: 1314b5898be983e8d8c6060edfd53545c6a9ef6cf8e2b44e65769caa06869e10
403 2012-10-27 18:39:33 <D34TH> Status: 1/unconfirmed, broadcast through 3 nodes
404 2012-10-27 18:40:21 <D34TH> try -addnode=178.33.28.54
405 2012-10-27 18:41:21 <gmaxwell> dusty__: what version of bitcoin are you running?
406 2012-10-27 18:42:37 <dusty__> 0.7.1
407 2012-10-27 18:43:31 <dusty__> bitcoin-qt -testnet -addnode=178.33.28.54 ?
408 2012-10-27 18:43:36 <D34TH> yup
409 2012-10-27 18:43:43 <dusty__> it gives me an error
410 2012-10-27 18:43:58 <dusty__> telling me the dir is locked etc (the client is running)
411 2012-10-27 18:44:00 <dusty__> ok
412 2012-10-27 18:44:05 <dusty__> transaction arrived :)
413 2012-10-27 18:44:11 <dusty__> 100 btc
414 2012-10-27 18:44:16 <dusty__> thanks very much
415 2012-10-27 18:48:15 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
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417 2012-10-27 18:53:55 <BlueMatt> D34TH: yes, that much I knew...as to how to fix it...I havent looked into it yet
418 2012-10-27 18:54:12 <D34TH> copying files from windows mingw?
419 2012-10-27 18:54:14 <D34TH> :D
420 2012-10-27 18:54:47 <sipa> well, how does the gitian setup get this windows.h file?
421 2012-10-27 18:54:52 <sipa> it must come from some package
422 2012-10-27 18:55:34 <BlueMatt> ye
423 2012-10-27 18:55:34 <BlueMatt> p
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425 2012-10-27 18:59:09 <Luke-Jr> sipa: mingw :p
426 2012-10-27 19:00:09 maaku has joined
427 2012-10-27 19:02:34 <sipa> well why doesn't BitcoinPullTester have it then?
428 2012-10-27 19:04:17 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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430 2012-10-27 19:04:38 <BlueMatt> it does...its just missing from the include path somehow
431 2012-10-27 19:05:18 <sipa> does it patch the makefile?
432 2012-10-27 19:05:25 <BlueMatt> ahh, heres why, your makefile is f'd up
433 2012-10-27 19:05:31 <BlueMatt> its using g++ for the mingw builds
434 2012-10-27 19:05:42 <BlueMatt> (not i586-mingw32msvc-g++)
435 2012-10-27 19:06:39 <BlueMatt> (in makefile.linux-mingw, at the least)
436 2012-10-27 19:07:24 <BlueMatt> oh, and the makefile should use && instead of ;, which is probably why it continues trying to build after leveldb build fails
437 2012-10-27 19:07:43 * BlueMatt -> breakfast
438 2012-10-27 19:08:01 <sipa> you can probably try passing CXX=i586-mingw32msvc-g++ to make
439 2012-10-27 19:08:25 <sipa> still... why does it work in gitian then?
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445 2012-10-27 19:25:23 <BlueMatt> sipa: I dont know why it works in gitian, but afaics CXX should fix it...re: specify CXX, the makefile.linux-mingw should probably set a default CXX and let the user override (somehow it currently doesnt...)
446 2012-10-27 19:25:52 toffoo has joined
447 2012-10-27 19:26:03 <sipa> BlueMatt: feel free to send a pullreq
448 2012-10-27 19:26:17 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
449 2012-10-27 19:26:25 <BlueMatt> will do (a bit later...)
450 2012-10-27 19:32:04 Cory has joined
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452 2012-10-27 19:33:38 <ThomasV> there used to be a blockchain.info page where forked chains are visible. anyone knows its url?
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454 2012-10-27 19:34:34 <sipa> http://blockchain.info/orphaned-blocks ?
455 2012-10-27 19:34:58 <ThomasV> sipa: yes, thanks!
456 2012-10-27 19:35:51 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: make defines CXX by default
457 2012-10-27 19:36:32 <sipa> leveldb's build_detect_platform sets it to g++ unless already defined
458 2012-10-27 19:36:41 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: is there a way to check if it was manually set or set automatically?
459 2012-10-27 19:37:26 Belkaar has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
460 2012-10-27 19:37:27 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: not afaik
461 2012-10-27 19:37:34 <BlueMatt> well thats no fun...
462 2012-10-27 19:37:46 <Luke-Jr> you can change the default :P
463 2012-10-27 19:38:17 <BlueMatt> sipa: saw that, thats why Im wondering why gitian works
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469 2012-10-27 20:07:04 <amiller> are block times guaranteed to be monotonic or anything?
470 2012-10-27 20:07:16 <amiller> i know there's like a two hour window that comes into play but i don't fully understand it
471 2012-10-27 20:07:23 <amiller> timestamps i mean
472 2012-10-27 20:07:30 runeks has joined
473 2012-10-27 20:08:36 <amiller> actually...
474 2012-10-27 20:08:55 <runeks> I need some testnet bitcoins to play around with. is there a kind soul somewhere, who's wealthy in BTC play-money, that will send me some at mkDcsGrcRZKqfLaCCbLPTZdtnv8hkYLnp7 ?
475 2012-10-27 20:08:59 <amiller> suppose we decided it would be an awesome idea to change the between blocks interval to 7 minutes instead of 10, but no one wanted to bother with a hardfork
476 2012-10-27 20:09:02 <BlueMatt> afaik the only requirement is that its past the median of last N blocks (and will only be accepted by a node if its not too far by 2 hours)
477 2012-10-27 20:09:11 <amiller> we could just create 'bitcoin time' and decouple the timestamps from the system clocks
478 2012-10-27 20:10:20 <maaku> amiller: block times are not monotonic
479 2012-10-27 20:10:22 <BlueMatt> there was an intent to add an ntp (or similar) client to bitcoin-qt
480 2012-10-27 20:10:29 <maaku> amiller: there are plenty of examples in the chain
481 2012-10-27 20:11:12 <BlueMatt> (plus we already keep track, fairly poorly, of offsets)
482 2012-10-27 20:11:56 <maaku> amiller: it would still be a hard-fork, potentially less disruptive to the ecosystem of bitcoin tools
483 2012-10-27 20:12:22 <maaku> s/potentially/although potentially/
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488 2012-10-27 20:20:07 <maaku> BlueMatt Luke-Jr: if you're using GNU make, you could use some shell logic to set it: $(shell … )
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491 2012-10-27 20:27:26 <runeks> when signing a newly created transaction, what exactly is signed? I understand that the scriptSig is removed, but what about the var_int that precedes the scriptSig, is that included in the hash that is signed?
492 2012-10-27 20:27:52 <sipa> that var_int is set to 0
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494 2012-10-27 20:28:18 <runeks> sipa: ok
495 2012-10-27 20:28:39 <maaku> runeks: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/OP_CHECKSIG
496 2012-10-27 20:29:53 <runeks> maaku: I've read that, but i was unsure what exactly "empty script" meant, ie. if it included a zero-size var_int preceding it.
497 2012-10-27 20:30:09 <runeks> is there some easy way to verify that the hash I generate of an "scriptless" transaction is the correct one?
498 2012-10-27 20:30:31 servvs has joined
499 2012-10-27 20:30:49 <sipa> runeks: check script.cpp's SignatureHash function, it's more complicated
500 2012-10-27 20:30:53 <runeks> ie. some test transaction some place that I can hash a sign to see if I create the sign final signature and intermediate hash
501 2012-10-27 20:31:34 <sipa> all input scripts are set to [], except the that of the input being signed, which is set to the *output* script that is being consumed
502 2012-10-27 20:31:39 <runeks> sipa: uh oh. I was afraid you were going to point me to the official code :)
503 2012-10-27 20:32:45 <sipa> then there are some options to blank out some outputs, and a way to remove other inputs
504 2012-10-27 20:32:56 <Luke-Jr> maaku: huh? I don't see how $(shell …) is of any use here?
505 2012-10-27 20:33:03 <runeks> sipa: so if I have a transaction with a single input, I would create a transaction where I would just replace the scriptSig in this transaction with the output that I want to redeem?
506 2012-10-27 20:33:15 <sipa> runeks: normally, yes
507 2012-10-27 20:33:37 <runeks> sipa: does that mean "assuming SIGHASH_ALL is used"?
508 2012-10-27 20:33:54 <sipa> yes
509 2012-10-27 20:33:54 <maaku> Luke-Jr: i misunderstood
510 2012-10-27 20:34:20 <runeks> sipa: cool. thanks!
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527 2012-10-27 21:04:04 <runeks> so I think I've created a correct "scriptless" transaction. is there a way to verify that I've done it correctly? does anyone have an example transaction with an accompanying "scriptless" hash?
528 2012-10-27 21:05:48 <Luke-Jr> huh? no such thing..
529 2012-10-27 21:06:00 <graingert> runeks: do you mean p2sh?
530 2012-10-27 21:07:01 BlackPrapor has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
531 2012-10-27 21:07:20 <sipa> "scriptless" is probably a confusing term; he's just referring to the modified transaction being signed
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535 2012-10-27 21:21:26 <runeks> graingert: as sipa said, I'm just trying to assess whether I can create a valid transaction. I need to know if I calculate the correct hash that is to be signed when creating a new tx.
536 2012-10-27 21:21:43 <graingert> uhhh
537 2012-10-27 21:21:45 <graingert> no idea
538 2012-10-27 21:21:48 <graingert> ask Luke-Jr
539 2012-10-27 21:22:21 <Luke-Jr> y me?
540 2012-10-27 21:23:05 <runeks> I just mined 50 BTC on testnes. I guess I will try creating a valid tx and seeing if importrawtx accepts it.
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581 2012-10-27 23:03:45 <bcb> is is possible serch the [comment] or [comment-to] colums from the sendtoaddress method in bitcoind?
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585 2012-10-27 23:22:13 <runeks> how do I derive the private key from a "Compressed Testnet Private key"? what is a "compressed" private key even?
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588 2012-10-27 23:22:57 <runeks> I'd like to just get the integer that is the private key from the output of the "dumpprivkey" command. but I can't figure out how to do it.
589 2012-10-27 23:23:39 <gmaxwell> compressed is just a flag on the private key that says the matching public key should be point compressed.
590 2012-10-27 23:23:50 <sipa> the format is: 0x80 + [32-byte secret parameter in BE] + ([0x01] if compressed, [] otherwise)
591 2012-10-27 23:24:04 <sipa> encoded in base58 with checksum
592 2012-10-27 23:25:36 <runeks> ok... so if strip the first byte and the last five bytes from the base58-decoded byte string, I get an uncompressed private key?
593 2012-10-27 23:26:01 <sipa> there is nothing compressed or uncompressed about the the private key
594 2012-10-27 23:26:03 <kjj_> public keys don't compress.  the extra marker is the sign of the public key that was created with it
595 2012-10-27 23:26:04 <runeks> or, rather, just a private key (since they can't be compressed)
596 2012-10-27 23:26:08 <runeks> sipa: right
597 2012-10-27 23:26:21 <sipa> but yes, if you take those bytes, you get the secret parameter
598 2012-10-27 23:26:28 <runeks> super
599 2012-10-27 23:26:35 <gmaxwell> if you ignore the compressed flag you will generate the wrong public key / address for compressed ones however.
600 2012-10-27 23:27:29 <gmaxwell> (well technically the public key will be the right one but bitcoin doesn't know the compressed and non-compressed public keys are the same; and the address actually will be wrong)
601 2012-10-27 23:27:32 <runeks> gmaxwell: are compressed public keys the default in the client?
602 2012-10-27 23:27:33 <kjj_> I still think it is a funny quirk that a private key can correspond to several different public keys
603 2012-10-27 23:27:48 <sipa> kjj_: it doesn't
604 2012-10-27 23:27:54 <gmaxwell> runeks: yes, now.
605 2012-10-27 23:27:57 <sipa> kjj_: but it does correspond to several addresses :)
606 2012-10-27 23:28:05 <sipa> as addresses depend on how the public key is encoded
607 2012-10-27 23:28:06 <runeks> gmaxwell: any way to turn it off?
608 2012-10-27 23:28:42 <gmaxwell> runeks: Old wallets have it off, but you wouldn't want to turn it off... makes transactions a fair bit smaller to have use compressed addresses.
609 2012-10-27 23:28:50 <kjj_> sipa: sure it does.  give me any 256 bit number and I can create two different addresses that both work with it
610 2012-10-27 23:28:55 <gmaxwell> runeks: you can use validateaddress to tell if an address in your own wallet is compressed or not.
611 2012-10-27 23:29:00 <runeks> gmaxwell: I mean, it makes sense, since we want as little data in the block chain as possible. but the script I'm writing sort of expects uncompressed pubkeys
612 2012-10-27 23:29:23 <sipa> kjj_: and as i said, with one secret parameter corresponds to several addresses
613 2012-10-27 23:29:51 <gmaxwell> runeks: then fix your script.
614 2012-10-27 23:29:55 <sipa> kjj_: but not to different public keys - but public keys have two encoded forms, and addresses depend on that
615 2012-10-27 23:29:57 <gmaxwell> :P
616 2012-10-27 23:29:59 <runeks> gmaxwell: right :)
617 2012-10-27 23:30:15 <gmaxwell> runeks: what language are you writing this in?
618 2012-10-27 23:30:20 <runeks> Python
619 2012-10-27 23:30:22 <sipa> gmaxwell: ultraprune compressed uncompressed public keys in the txouts, by the way
620 2012-10-27 23:30:33 <sipa> *compresses
621 2012-10-27 23:30:41 <kjj_> ok, you've split the hair finer than I did.  two "public key representations", not two "public keys"
622 2012-10-27 23:30:42 <gmaxwell> sipa: I noticed.
623 2012-10-27 23:30:55 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
624 2012-10-27 23:30:58 <sipa> kjj_: haha :)
625 2012-10-27 23:31:22 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
626 2012-10-27 23:31:23 <sipa> well, i guess it's disputable anyway, as bitcoin always uses public keys in their encoded form
627 2012-10-27 23:32:09 <sipa> runeks: anyway, undocumented feature: if you start -updragewallet=40000 when a new wallet is created that does not do compressed pubkeys
628 2012-10-27 23:32:15 <sipa> *wuth
629 2012-10-27 23:32:17 <sipa> *wIth
630 2012-10-27 23:32:26 <gmaxwell> sipa: I wonder how much space the txout pubkey compression is doing for deepbit alone?
631 2012-10-27 23:32:43 <runeks> so a compressed public key is either 0x02 or 0x03 plus x-coordinate. does the first byte designate signedness of the y-coordinate?
632 2012-10-27 23:32:43 t7 has joined
633 2012-10-27 23:32:56 <sipa> runeks: the lowest order bit
634 2012-10-27 23:33:04 <sipa> (0x03 for odd, 0x02 for even)
635 2012-10-27 23:33:43 <sipa> gmaxwell: there are not many unspent txouts to 1Vaynert, i think
636 2012-10-27 23:33:57 <sipa> or are there?
637 2012-10-27 23:34:12 <gmaxwell> I dunno, there are some, he doesn't pay to a single chain of transactions.
638 2012-10-27 23:34:42 <sipa> 29 unspent txouts to 1VayNert, according to blockinfo
639 2012-10-27 23:35:39 <runeks> sipa: I never quite understood that. if the curve equation is y^2=... and y=sqrt(...) don't we need to know if the y-coordinate is positive and negative, and not even or odd?
640 2012-10-27 23:36:09 <runeks> 's/positive and negative/positive or negative'
641 2012-10-27 23:36:15 <sipa> runeks: it's in the field Zp, which has no signs
642 2012-10-27 23:36:38 <sipa> as -k and p-k are the same
643 2012-10-27 23:36:53 vampireb_ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
644 2012-10-27 23:37:10 <sipa> you could aritifically divide it in and upper and a lower half, and assign signs to those
645 2012-10-27 23:37:17 <sipa> but checking one bit is easier :)
646 2012-10-27 23:37:31 <runeks> sipa: hmm. so what do we get from checking evenness instead?
647 2012-10-27 23:37:50 <sipa> the sign *ducks*
648 2012-10-27 23:38:08 <runeks> ducks?
649 2012-10-27 23:38:17 <sipa> because i've just told you there are no signs
650 2012-10-27 23:38:21 <kjj_> heh.  this isn't regular math.  sqrt() still gives two possible answers, but in this case, neither of them are negative
651 2012-10-27 23:38:23 <gmaxwell> runeks: it's accomplishing the same thing you expected, but in the context of the number field it's evenness not the sign you care about.
652 2012-10-27 23:38:50 <runeks> so does sqrt() yield two possibl answers. one being even and the other being odd?
653 2012-10-27 23:38:58 <sipa> anyway, k and p-k (aka -k) have a different evenness
654 2012-10-27 23:39:07 <gmaxwell> it's basically k or p-k and one is even and the other odd.
655 2012-10-27 23:39:11 denisx has joined
656 2012-10-27 23:39:16 <sipa> so if you're looking for the two "signs", one will be odd and one will be even
657 2012-10-27 23:39:19 <sipa> (since p is odd)
658 2012-10-27 23:39:28 <gmaxwell> (there aren't too many even primes)
659 2012-10-27 23:39:38 <sipa> there are two
660 2012-10-27 23:39:50 <runeks> not just one?
661 2012-10-27 23:39:55 <gmaxwell> I didn't any for a reason. :P
662 2012-10-27 23:39:59 <sipa> 2 and -2 *ducks again*
663 2012-10-27 23:40:04 <gmaxwell> hahah
664 2012-10-27 23:40:05 <bcb> is is possible search the [comment] or [comment-to] data colums created by the sendtoaddress method in bitcoind?
665 2012-10-27 23:40:09 <kjj_> sqrt() is still giving you two possible numbers that can be squared to give the input.  there are actually more than 2, but the field wraps at N, so after the first two, they are all equivalent
666 2012-10-27 23:40:26 <gmaxwell> bcb: No search, er. are they shown on listtransactions?  listtransactions | grep
667 2012-10-27 23:40:41 <bcb> thx
668 2012-10-27 23:41:17 <runeks> I think I get it now. if P=29 and k=14 then p-k=15 and k=14. just takes a little getting used to... all these prime fields and what not.
669 2012-10-27 23:41:57 <sipa> the prime fields are quite easy compared to the EC groups :
670 2012-10-27 23:43:22 <runeks> sipa: anyway. I just saw you previous comment. -updragewallet=40000 it is. my script is really just meant to demonstrate how to create a transaction and sign it. whether it uses compressed or non-compressed pubkeys isn't important.
671 2012-10-27 23:43:48 <gmaxwell> runeks: until someone uses your code and is going around telling people do downgrade their wallets to use it. :P
672 2012-10-27 23:44:32 <runeks> gmaxwell: well it's more theoretical. I'm just using Python to describe the theory.
673 2012-10-27 23:44:47 <sipa> well there are functioning wallets written in python...
674 2012-10-27 23:45:13 <kjj_> heh.  while we are holding the remedial EC math class, I can make absolutely no sense of this EC multiplication implementation that I've been using.
675 2012-10-27 23:45:58 <sipa> there are two types of EC multiplication routines
676 2012-10-27 23:46:08 <sipa> those that are fast, and those that are readable :)
677 2012-10-27 23:46:38 <runeks> OpenSSL uses the former type
678 2012-10-27 23:46:43 <runeks> I can attest to that
679 2012-10-27 23:46:57 <kjj_> sadly, this one is not fast.  I'm just missing the steps between the theoretical notion that you can do the multiplication, and seeing how it is done
680 2012-10-27 23:47:42 <sipa> you know this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponentiation_by_squaring ?
681 2012-10-27 23:48:10 <runeks> kjj_: have you taken a look at Lis' Python ECDSA script? that's pretty readable (fairly)
682 2012-10-27 23:48:25 <kjj_> ahh, that explains why doubling is so important
683 2012-10-27 23:48:50 <kjj_> I'm reading a PHP library.  I can follow along with what it is doing, I just don't usually know WHY it is doing it
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685 2012-10-27 23:50:25 <kjj_> I should probably sit down with pen and paper and do a contrived example
686 2012-10-27 23:51:42 <runeks> sipa: when starting bitcoin-qt with -updragewallet=40000 and creating a new address, I still get a private key that starts with "c" from running "dumpprivkey" (Wiki says that's "compressed")
687 2012-10-27 23:52:13 <sipa> runeks: did you start without a wallet?
688 2012-10-27 23:52:29 <runeks> no I already had one...
689 2012-10-27 23:52:32 graingert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
690 2012-10-27 23:52:44 <runeks> that I've painstakingly mined 100 BTC to :)
691 2012-10-27 23:52:46 <sipa> it's a non-documented feature for a reason: it can't downgrade wallets
692 2012-10-27 23:52:51 <runeks> oh
693 2012-10-27 23:53:03 <runeks> anyone have some testnet coins they're willing to send me?
694 2012-10-27 23:53:04 <sipa> it just limits the features for newly created ones
695 2012-10-27 23:53:20 <sipa> runeks: you can dump the address that has your coins, create a new wallet at version 40000, and import
696 2012-10-27 23:53:55 <sipa> doing so may upgrade the wallet, though, unsure
697 2012-10-27 23:54:31 <runeks> are any of you on testnet? I can send you the coins, upgrade my wallet, and you can send it back to an uncompressed wallet...
698 2012-10-27 23:54:49 <sipa> you can do that yourself
699 2012-10-27 23:55:12 paraipan has joined
700 2012-10-27 23:55:29 <runeks> i'll try
701 2012-10-27 23:58:15 <runeks> still getting compressed keys :\
702 2012-10-27 23:59:47 maaku has joined