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   5 2012-10-30 00:19:01 <BlueMatt> sipa: awww, I was gonna do merkle tree encoding later this week :(
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   7 2012-10-30 00:20:49 <sipa> BlueMatt: sorry, unit tests just finished!
   8 2012-10-30 00:21:56 <jgarzik> -rw-rw-r-- 1 jgarzik jgarzik 3674737802 Oct 29 20:00 blocks.dat
   9 2012-10-30 00:22:08 <jgarzik> not bad
  10 2012-10-30 00:22:26 <jgarzik> pynode's blocks.data, flat file MessageHeader + CBlock serialized format
  11 2012-10-30 00:22:56 <sipa> jgarzik: so, same as blk000?.dat, but without the size headers?
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  13 2012-10-30 00:25:36 <Guest73974> Yippie, build fixed!
  14 2012-10-30 00:25:36 <Guest73974> Project Bitcoin build #124: FIXED in 4 hr 23 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/124/
  15 2012-10-30 00:25:49 <BlueMatt> wtf?
  16 2012-10-30 00:25:58 <BlueMatt> why did you get your nick f'd up BlueMattBot?
  17 2012-10-30 00:26:34 <BlueMatt> sipa/jgarzik: can I change pull-tester to merge instead of testing pull HEAD now so I can start it again?
  18 2012-10-30 00:26:40 <sipa> BlueMatt: go ahead
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  21 2012-10-30 00:28:55 <BlueMatt> pull-tester chugging away
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  24 2012-10-30 00:33:45 <jgarzik> sipa: same as blk000?.dat, except: minus size header, add P2P network message header
  25 2012-10-30 00:33:53 <jgarzik> so slightly larger overhead
  26 2012-10-30 00:34:00 <jgarzik> but can sendfile(2) directly from disk
  27 2012-10-30 00:34:22 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: sure
  28 2012-10-30 00:35:39 <sipa> BlueMatt: https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/commit/3006e4e2d0774eee888f62caa44206050f5f3be9
  29 2012-10-30 00:36:11 <jgarzik> 16 additional bytes per block
  30 2012-10-30 00:36:47 <BlueMatt> sipa: Ill look at it tomorrow...busy atm
  31 2012-10-30 00:36:56 <sipa> BlueMatt: ok
  32 2012-10-30 00:37:12 <sipa> it's in my partalmerkle branch (note the typo... need sleep)
  33 2012-10-30 00:37:36 <gmaxwell> Yea, the recursive decoder is simply enough for sure.
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  37 2012-10-30 00:43:43 <sipa> didn't implement any serializer yet...
  38 2012-10-30 00:44:04 <sipa> you could take advantage of the fact that vBits.size() = vHash.size()*2-1
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  40 2012-10-30 00:45:45 <Luke-Jr> slush: any reason the Stratum proxy would be triggering scrypt, as far as you know?
  41 2012-10-30 00:48:54 <sipa> how does a proxy trigger an algorithm?
  42 2012-10-30 00:49:52 <Luke-Jr> sipa: in theory, the only way to do it is to send "algorithm": /scrypt/ in the JSON response to getwork
  43 2012-10-30 00:50:45 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
  44 2012-10-30 00:50:56 <sipa> i simply don't see what a proxy has to do with an algorithm
  45 2012-10-30 00:51:14 <sipa> do you mean a miner connected to that proxy, that suddenly uses scrypt to mine?
  46 2012-10-30 00:51:54 <Luke-Jr> yes
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  52 2012-10-30 01:01:15 <Azelphur> Hi folks, I want to monitor transactions to an address in realtime, Is there any easy library to do this (preferably in python)?
  53 2012-10-30 01:02:03 <Luke-Jr> Azelphur: probably pynode
  54 2012-10-30 01:02:18 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik's Python implementation
  55 2012-10-30 01:02:22 <Azelphur> cool, I'll take a look :)
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  63 2012-10-30 01:21:48 <BlueMatt> Azelphur: bitcoinj even has an example which does that (if you dont mind java...)
  64 2012-10-30 01:22:03 <Azelphur> BlueMatt: got a link? :)
  65 2012-10-30 01:22:38 <sipa> ;;google bitcoinj
  66 2012-10-30 01:22:39 <gribble> bitcoinj - A Java implementation of a Bitcoin client-only node ...: <http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/>; GettingStarted - bitcoinj - An introduction to using the library - A Java ...: <http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/wiki/GettingStarted>; Bitcoin for beginners, Part 3: The BitCoinJ API - JavaWorld: <http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-01-2012/120110-bitcoin-for-beginners-3.html>
  67 2012-10-30 01:23:22 <BlueMatt> hmm...nope the example doesnt do quite that...it does a bit more, should be easy enough to hack though
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  69 2012-10-30 01:24:31 * Azelphur shrugs
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  82 2012-10-30 01:47:10 <Azelphur> Luke-Jr: hmm, I'm running that python node, I'm connected to it via jsonrpc, it says that the number of blocks in the longest block chain is -1
  83 2012-10-30 01:47:19 <Azelphur> and I can't really see any json calls for live monitoring of transactions in here
  84 2012-10-30 01:47:42 <Luke-Jr> I've never used/touched it so far. I imagine you'd be hacking the code, not using JSONRPC
  85 2012-10-30 01:47:52 <Azelphur> ah
  86 2012-10-30 01:48:04 <Azelphur> seems like it's a little broken anyway
  87 2012-10-30 01:50:47 <Azelphur> oh hey, blockchain.info looks like it has easy apis for this, guess I'll use that
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  89 2012-10-30 01:55:16 <BlueMatt> bleh
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 105 2012-10-30 02:49:39 <optimator>  gmaxwell: how do the stuck testnet blocks get "unstuck" is ultraprune for the blockchain or just blockexplorer.com
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 108 2012-10-30 02:56:14 <gmaxwell> optimator: if blockexplorer.com ran an early version of ultraprune it would explain it being stuck.
 109 2012-10-30 02:56:47 <gmaxwell> If thats the case it won't ever become unstuck without manual intervention (reindex or deleting the database). Does that answer your question?
 110 2012-10-30 02:57:13 Maged has joined
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 112 2012-10-30 03:03:36 <optimator> gmaxwell: database meaning their db, right?
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 115 2012-10-30 03:17:38 <gmaxwell> Correct.
 116 2012-10-30 03:17:53 <gmaxwell> er, wait what do you mean by 'their'?
 117 2012-10-30 03:18:02 <gmaxwell> I mean the database that is part of their bitcoin node.
 118 2012-10-30 03:18:08 <gmaxwell> Not everyone elses bitcoin nodes. :P
 119 2012-10-30 03:22:33 <optimator> got it. thanks!
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 163 2012-10-30 04:52:40 <midnightmagic> "post-tropical cyclone" doesn't seem to be having any effect on hashrate.
 164 2012-10-30 04:52:50 <robbak> If anyone has getblock stuff, could someone find transaction "22833cb67cc407b8d443c89575cee4a086ee5a24fa3304acc33121e911623816"?
 165 2012-10-30 04:52:55 <midnightmagic> so much for 1.5-2m homes without power. Clearly nobody mines over there.
 166 2012-10-30 04:53:21 <Luke-Jr> lol
 167 2012-10-30 04:53:25 <robbak> OH, and as someone from tropical N Queensland, who has seen 3 cyclones, how is it going?
 168 2012-10-30 04:53:27 <midnightmagic> robbak: no information available about transaction.
 169 2012-10-30 04:53:43 <robbak> Yeah, can't find it on blockexplorer.
 170 2012-10-30 04:53:55 <midnightmagic> robbak: It's only a cat 1, the main problem seems to be storm surge. And massive electrical explosions.
 171 2012-10-30 04:54:29 <midnightmagic> On the other hand, I'm on the other side of the continent (where the huge earthquake that did very little human damage) was.
 172 2012-10-30 04:55:25 MrTiggr- has joined
 173 2012-10-30 04:55:39 <midnightmagic> The hilarious part was that Hawaii massively overreacted. I don't know who they rely on for their emergency warnings, but when a few hundred miles south has barely a tsunami watch, and 15cm waves are reported at beaches a tad further south, there's not really any reason to think a giant wave is slamming across the ocean towards you. :(
 174 2012-10-30 04:55:47 MrTiggr- is now known as MrTiggr
 175 2012-10-30 04:56:04 <robbak> midnightmagic: the thing that get's me is how far north it is!. I guess the gulf stream has something to do with it.
 176 2012-10-30 04:56:04 <midnightmagic> Better safe than sorry, I guess!
 177 2012-10-30 04:56:21 <midnightmagic> robbak: You ever heard of The Bloop?
 178 2012-10-30 04:56:47 <robbak> No, I havn't. What is it?
 179 2012-10-30 04:57:13 <midnightmagic> A weird noise detected in 1997 that some people thought was a sea monster. (Myself included.)
 180 2012-10-30 04:57:24 <midnightmagic> Turns out it's just ice!
 181 2012-10-30 04:57:45 <midnightmagic> Giant icebergs of doom pinwheeling on patagonia etc.
 182 2012-10-30 04:59:05 <midnightmagic> .. and the world becomes a little less magical, as my friend put it. :)
 183 2012-10-30 05:00:09 <robbak> Ah, yes I had heard of it. But I'm never dissapointed by an explanation.
 184 2012-10-30 05:01:45 <midnightmagic> Neither I nor my friend. But with all the iceberg studies going on, they've recorded a pile of new datasets and built some software for analyzing them. And they're going to publish a paper soon!
 185 2012-10-30 05:02:02 <midnightmagic> Very exciting.
 186 2012-10-30 05:02:22 <midnightmagic> bioacoustics is one freaky new field!
 187 2012-10-30 05:02:28 <midnightmagic> new-ish..
 188 2012-10-30 05:03:25 <robbak> On the subject of Tsunamis, we were put on a watch a few years ago. The authorities didn't panic, but some of the public and media did!
 189 2012-10-30 05:05:58 <robbak> All very silly, all we should have done was listen to announcements and be ready to react if you lived on the shoreline, but the highways to the tablelands (1000+ feet altitude!) were all choked with idiots!
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 196 2012-10-30 05:42:14 <jgarzik> picocoin is now hashing tx's and block's like a champ.  building and validating block merkle tree too.
 197 2012-10-30 05:43:09 <jgarzik> with the P2P piece and blockchain db piece already written, time to hook everything together
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 215 2012-10-30 06:03:28 <gmaxwell> ugh. chrome pulling in git master?
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 226 2012-10-30 06:51:27 <slush> Luke-Jr: I don't know what you need for scrypt from proxy, but reasonable pull requests will be accepted...
 227 2012-10-30 06:51:52 <Luke-Jr> slush: I don't, some user is reporting the proxy serving it scrypt work when he just wants Bitcoin
 228 2012-10-30 06:52:29 <slush> Luke-Jr: eh? Proxy has nothing about scrypt right now
 229 2012-10-30 06:52:41 <Luke-Jr> odd
 230 2012-10-30 06:54:17 freewil has joined
 231 2012-10-30 06:54:26 <Luke-Jr> slush: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78192.msg1306171#msg1306171 fwiw
 232 2012-10-30 06:54:47 <Luke-Jr> guess I'll have to install Twisted garbage to try to reproduce :<
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 242 2012-10-30 07:29:21 <da2ce7> hello.
 243 2012-10-30 07:29:49 <da2ce7> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0032 , the 'k' value is of-course arbartary. correct?
 244 2012-10-30 07:31:14 <da2ce7> so if somebody posts the 'external' wallet chain... I can pick a random 256bit? number for 'k' correct... to get a seemingly random individual public key;
 245 2012-10-30 07:32:13 <da2ce7> then I can then send btc to this address... I cannot ever spend these coins (as I don't have the internal chain)..
 246 2012-10-30 07:32:33 <da2ce7> but the ower of the Internal cannot spend thes coins untill I provide k to her?
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 255 2012-10-30 08:05:22 <slush1> Luke-Jr: I still don't see any relation between scrypt and proxy. That guy isn't even using Stratum.
 256 2012-10-30 08:06:18 <Luke-Jr> slush1: err, he isn't? he said "BTC Guild via stratum proxy"
 257 2012-10-30 08:06:57 <senseless> Does anyone have any experience with opencl that wants to make a few coins answering some noob questions? (unrelated to bitcoin)
 258 2012-10-30 08:09:15 <slush1> Luke-Jr: oh, he wrote one message on previous page... "Detected scrypt algorithm" - I don't think it has anything to do with proxy itself. I even don't know what scrypt needs in getwork response.
 259 2012-10-30 08:11:29 <Luke-Jr> [00:37:46] <Luke-Jr> sipa: in theory, the only way to do it is to send "algorithm": /scrypt/ in the JSON response to getwork
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 264 2012-10-30 08:18:32 <slush1> Luke-Jr: proxy definitely don't send anything scrypt related...
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 268 2012-10-30 08:39:35 <ThomasV> is someone else experiencing problems with cinfu?
 269 2012-10-30 08:42:37 Hasimir- has joined
 270 2012-10-30 08:43:21 <sipa> da2ce7: the subkey identifier is a 32-bit number in BIP32
 271 2012-10-30 08:43:48 <da2ce7> sipa: is it possible to make it such a large number that you couldn't search throogh all the possiblityies?
 272 2012-10-30 08:44:13 <sipa> da2ce7: yes, but what advantage does that have?
 273 2012-10-30 08:44:35 <sipa> da2ce7: just add two keys together if you want something like that
 274 2012-10-30 08:45:06 Hasimir has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 275 2012-10-30 08:45:34 <da2ce7> sipa: I pick a random k 256bit value (for your external wallet chain), send bitcoin to that address....  I send you the hash of k.  you sign "you are the first to send this (hash k)"
 276 2012-10-30 08:45:44 <da2ce7> then I send you k, any you can spend these coins.
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 278 2012-10-30 08:45:48 <da2ce7> *and
 279 2012-10-30 08:46:22 <da2ce7> so I can prove later that I was the original owner of the coins.
 280 2012-10-30 08:46:39 <sipa> hmmz
 281 2012-10-30 08:47:12 <da2ce7> you don't know you have a payment... untill I send you k
 282 2012-10-30 08:47:22 <da2ce7> but I cannot spend the coins... only you can.
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 288 2012-10-30 08:53:51 <sipa> da2ce7: but it also means the receiver has to trust the sender
 289 2012-10-30 08:54:00 <sipa> as the sender can double spend the coins from under him
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 292 2012-10-30 08:55:33 <da2ce7> sipa: woundt that be impossible, since the sender dosn't have the private component of the wallet chain?
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 294 2012-10-30 08:55:55 <da2ce7> only picks the k vaule, that is public anyway.
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 296 2012-10-30 08:56:23 <sipa> oh, right
 297 2012-10-30 08:56:42 <sipa> still, no need for BIP32 here
 298 2012-10-30 08:56:57 <sipa> use two public keys - one of the sender, one of the receiver, and combine them
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 301 2012-10-30 08:57:31 <sipa> and i suppose a multisig transaction could achieve the same
 302 2012-10-30 08:58:02 <da2ce7> sipa:  my dream is a payment address... where since 'k' is a shared secert, nobody can relate the payments you receive.  yet you don't need to generate a new payment address for every client.
 303 2012-10-30 08:58:16 <da2ce7> rarther let the client pick k.
 304 2012-10-30 08:58:55 <sipa> that isn't too hard, i believe something like that was described on the forum 1-2 years ago
 305 2012-10-30 09:01:17 <da2ce7> the bitcoin client could do it automaticly, from any public key.... once you know a public key, send a encripted message to the owner of that key "I'm using a k of (random 256 bit number)"  then every "payment" to a bitcoin address will look (to outside observers) completely inderpendant.
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 308 2012-10-30 09:01:43 <sipa> sure, but you still need to communicate with the sender
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 310 2012-10-30 09:02:02 <sipa> so at that point you could just send a newly generated address
 311 2012-10-30 09:02:24 <sipa> anyway, have to go
 312 2012-10-30 09:02:29 <da2ce7> thx anyway.
 313 2012-10-30 09:02:30 <da2ce7> :)
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 333 2012-10-30 09:57:25 <justinm001> hey can one of you smart folks help me :)
 334 2012-10-30 09:57:42 <justinm001> using bt-qt 7.0 i get a msg saying i may need to upgrade or other nodes may need to upgrade
 335 2012-10-30 09:57:44 <justinm001> and this in the logs
 336 2012-10-30 09:57:44 <justinm001> ERROR: SetBestChain() : Reorganize failed
 337 2012-10-30 09:57:45 <justinm001> ERROR: AcceptBlock() : AddToBlockIndex failed
 338 2012-10-30 09:57:45 <justinm001> ERROR: ProcessBlock() : AcceptBlock FAILED
 339 2012-10-30 09:57:54 <justinm001> and it wont download any new blocks from yesterday
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 374 2012-10-30 11:44:21 <abrkn> can someone explain a transaction on blockchain.info for me? https://gist.github.com/3979674 <- i sent 1 satoshi + txn fee to 1dice... how should i be reading the input/output numbers?
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 385 2012-10-30 12:06:12 <abrkn> https://npmjs.org/package/blockchain <-- you're welcome.
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 389 2012-10-30 12:13:19 <SomeoneWeird> abrkn, why use optimist?
 390 2012-10-30 12:14:49 <abrkn> i got all confused about argv[0] vs arg[v]1 etc
 391 2012-10-30 12:15:07 <abrkn> like argv[0] was 'node' and argv[1] was script name
 392 2012-10-30 12:15:18 <abrkn> wasnt sure how that would act if people just run ./blockchain
 393 2012-10-30 12:15:40 <abrkn> if you can explain i can remove the dep
 394 2012-10-30 12:18:20 <SomeoneWeird> ./blockchain will still be [ 'node', 'blockchain' ]
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 398 2012-10-30 12:24:16 <abrkn> ok thanks
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 405 2012-10-30 12:46:06 <abrkn> https://npmjs.org/package/instawallet <-- you're welcome
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 467 2012-10-30 15:56:19 <bitcoin> can someone explain the confirmation value (briefly) in the "sendfrom" method
 468 2012-10-30 15:57:28 <sipa> it limits the transaction to only use inputs with at least that number of confirmations (IIRC)
 469 2012-10-30 15:58:54 <bitcoin> buy why would you want to send unconfirmed coins
 470 2012-10-30 15:59:07 guest52413 has joined
 471 2012-10-30 16:00:44 <sipa> you never send unconfirmed coins
 472 2012-10-30 16:00:58 <sipa> unless they are change or send-to-self
 473 2012-10-30 16:01:37 <helo> you do send "greater than zero confirmed" coins though
 474 2012-10-30 16:02:38 <bitcoin> so why is "confirmations" and option in the method
 475 2012-10-30 16:02:40 Arnavion has quit (Quit: Arnavion)
 476 2012-10-30 16:03:04 <helo> so if you've received some coin from someone you don't trust not to double-spend, and you want to be sure you don't include that coin until it has 6 confirmations, you can use that parameter
 477 2012-10-30 16:03:31 <bitcoin> helo is that a question or a statement
 478 2012-10-30 16:04:19 <helo> statement. if you send coin with one confirmation to a 3rd party, and the person that sent to you pulls off a double-spend on it, then your transaction to the 3rd party will be undone
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 481 2012-10-30 16:07:01 <bitcoin> helo:ahhh... so it like a green address.  Say I'm sending coins to myself and sending the off to another account I can spend these coins as soon as they hit my wallet
 482 2012-10-30 16:07:03 <bitcoin> ?
 483 2012-10-30 16:08:39 <helo> yes, that sounds right
 484 2012-10-30 16:10:32 <bitcoin> thx
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 502 2012-10-30 16:38:20 <jgarzik> blocknam style
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 511 2012-10-30 17:04:04 * BlueMatt wonders why jgarzik is so obsessed with gangnam style...
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 515 2012-10-30 17:14:46 <sipa> gmaxwell: pretty convinced that 257.585 bit per leaf node of the partial tree is the theoretic minimum; i guess i can live with 258 :)
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 518 2012-10-30 17:15:39 <gmaxwell> sipa: yea, I was ignoring the hash and thats why I was horrified. :P
 519 2012-10-30 17:16:30 <sipa> haha
 520 2012-10-30 17:16:38 <Eliel> so, two bits of data plus the hash? :)
 521 2012-10-30 17:16:58 <sipa> well, leaf nodes of the partial tree need a hash
 522 2012-10-30 17:17:14 <sipa> the number of total nodes is leaf_nodes*2-1
 523 2012-10-30 17:17:29 <sipa> and there is one bit of metadata for every node currently
 524 2012-10-30 17:18:03 <sipa> however, 1.585 (=log2(3)) bits per internal node suffices
 525 2012-10-30 17:18:13 <Eliel> reminds me that I wrote an implementation of huffman tree compression algorithm and saved the tree using 8+2 bits per node :)
 526 2012-10-30 17:18:43 <Eliel> um, the 8 was only for leaf nodes
 527 2012-10-30 17:19:28 * sipa will however not bother with complicating the algorithm tremendously for gaining up to 200 bytes per 1 MiB block in the worst case
 528 2012-10-30 17:19:31 <Eliel> I don't remember how the 2 bits were used though :)
 529 2012-10-30 17:20:40 <gmaxwell> sipa: Agreed. it doesn't need to be optimal. Just not bleedingly inefficient. Anything could just use a flag to special case sending the whole thing and avoid those 200 bytes trivially in any case.
 530 2012-10-30 17:25:00 <Eliel> oh, I misremembered, it only used one bit per node.
 531 2012-10-30 17:25:35 <Eliel> basically, did a left first treewalk and output a zero bit on non-leaf nodes and one bit on leaf nodes.
 532 2012-10-30 17:25:35 <sipa> BlueMatt: does mentioning something once imply obsession?
 533 2012-10-30 17:25:47 <BlueMatt> sipa: see: his G+
 534 2012-10-30 17:25:51 <sipa> ah
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 543 2012-10-30 17:46:36 <EnasQ> hi
 544 2012-10-30 17:47:01 <EnasQ> any one here to help me on having open transaction working
 545 2012-10-30 17:47:09 <EnasQ> the server and client
 546 2012-10-30 17:47:11 <EnasQ> please
 547 2012-10-30 17:56:50 <EnasQ> ?
 548 2012-10-30 17:56:59 <EnasQ> is this sleeping group?
 549 2012-10-30 17:57:18 <kjj_> well, this is not Opentransactions-dev, if that's what you meant by sleeping
 550 2012-10-30 17:57:42 <EnasQ> ok where to go then?
 551 2012-10-30 17:57:57 <EnasQ> Open Transaction is not built over bitcoin?
 552 2012-10-30 17:58:09 <EnasQ> or to coomplement Bitcoin?
 553 2012-10-30 17:58:21 <kjj_> heh, no, totally different thing, but a few people are working on ways to make OT handle bitcoin transactions automatically
 554 2012-10-30 17:58:30 <EnasQ> Is there channel named Opentransactions-dev?
 555 2012-10-30 17:58:49 skeledrew has joined
 556 2012-10-30 17:58:55 <kjj_> no idea.  does the OT documentation mention IRC at all?  I know some of them read the forums
 557 2012-10-30 17:59:06 <EnasQ> I want to do such thing, I created my own currency using multicoin
 558 2012-10-30 17:59:20 <EnasQ> and wanna enable trading of that coins via OT
 559 2012-10-30 17:59:48 <EnasQ> but I dunnu know how to get OT server starting it asks me about server ID
 560 2012-10-30 17:59:55 <kjj_> OT just lets you trade cryptographically signed receipts
 561 2012-10-30 17:59:56 <EnasQ> which I have no clue about it.
 562 2012-10-30 18:00:26 <kjj_> fellow traveller has put a lot of time and energy into it, but it hasn't really caught on.  I don't think there are many servers, nor people that know how to run OT servers
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 564 2012-10-30 18:01:13 <EnasQ> mmm
 565 2012-10-30 18:01:21 <EnasQ> :(
 566 2012-10-30 18:01:30 <EnasQ> please some one help me
 567 2012-10-30 18:01:36 <gmaxwell> kjj_: it's also very hard to sort out the vague grand vision stuff with which is actually possible to do securely now.
 568 2012-10-30 18:02:13 <kjj_> I don't know that anyone in this channel has actually ever run the software, or knows anything about it
 569 2012-10-30 18:02:34 <kjj_> again, because I don't think that more than a dozen people in the world have ever done it
 570 2012-10-30 18:04:23 <jgarzik> "So why do Java coders turn to Eclipse? 'Because [of] a combination of shortcomings in the Java compiler and Java's OO nature,' explains Faler, 'we end up with lots and lots of small files for every interface and class in our system. On any less than trivial Java system, development quickly turns into a game of code- and file-system navigation rather than programming and code editing."
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 574 2012-10-30 18:08:13 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: no
 575 2012-10-30 18:08:25 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: his answer gets a B- at the most
 576 2012-10-30 18:08:49 <amiller> uh, the simple answer is #opentransactions which is a busy channel
 577 2012-10-30 18:08:50 <amiller> meh he's gone
 578 2012-10-30 18:09:00 <Diablo-D3> its because eclipse has a built in java compiler
 579 2012-10-30 18:09:15 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I quite liked that idea
 580 2012-10-30 18:09:47 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: well the fact that java sucks is certainly a part of it (though there are other reasons to use an IDE)
 581 2012-10-30 18:09:52 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: seems like a pretty good answer to me
 582 2012-10-30 18:09:59 <Diablo-D3> well
 583 2012-10-30 18:10:00 <Diablo-D3> java DOES suck
 584 2012-10-30 18:10:09 <Diablo-D3> but thats not why java coders use eclipse
 585 2012-10-30 18:10:09 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: have you ever tried to build a project thrown together in eclipse *outside of eclipse*
 586 2012-10-30 18:10:12 <jrmithdobbs> jesus christ fuck that shit
 587 2012-10-30 18:10:34 <Diablo-D3> jrmithdobbs: well, I use the maven eclipse plugin
 588 2012-10-30 18:10:38 <Diablo-D3> and not the eclipse build system
 589 2012-10-30 18:10:44 <Diablo-D3> so all of it works for me fine
 590 2012-10-30 18:10:52 <Eliel> Diablo-D3: since you obviously know better, can you share what's the real reason then? :P
 591 2012-10-30 18:11:10 <Diablo-D3> well, having a java compiler in eclipse means you have full access to the AST
 592 2012-10-30 18:11:14 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: eclipse just gens ant configs, so it "works" it's just a matter of figuring out all the magical default eclipse environment settings
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 595 2012-10-30 18:11:29 <Diablo-D3> code complete, realtime error checking, etc, all right in eclipse
 596 2012-10-30 18:11:36 <Diablo-D3> cant do it with javac, sadly
 597 2012-10-30 18:11:40 <Diablo-D3> otherwise vim would already
 598 2012-10-30 18:11:46 <Diablo-D3> jrmithdobbs: basically
 599 2012-10-30 18:11:50 <Diablo-D3> which is why I hate eclipse
 600 2012-10-30 18:11:58 <daybyter> Java? Here!
 601 2012-10-30 18:11:58 <Diablo-D3> I did java dev on purpose for an entire year
 602 2012-10-30 18:12:02 guruvan_ has joined
 603 2012-10-30 18:12:05 <Diablo-D3> and you know what?
 604 2012-10-30 18:12:12 Raziel_ has joined
 605 2012-10-30 18:12:25 <daybyter> I do java dev since ver. 1.0.2 ...
 606 2012-10-30 18:12:30 <Diablo-D3> I like the syntax mostly, I fucking hate the community, eclipse, anything javaee, and oracle's close sourcing of java via patents
 607 2012-10-30 18:12:34 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: i hate eclipse because it's slower and more obsfucated than boreland c++'s ide was 20 years ago on hardware exponentially faster and with insane ammounts of ram
 608 2012-10-30 18:12:50 <Diablo-D3> jrmithdobbs: yeah, vim after I load it up is slower too
 609 2012-10-30 18:12:59 <Diablo-D3> so that comparison means jack shit
 610 2012-10-30 18:13:04 <daybyter> I just use emacs and ant...no eclipse and such...
 611 2012-10-30 18:13:04 <Diablo-D3> eclipse's problem is _its written in java_
 612 2012-10-30 18:13:14 <Diablo-D3> daybyter: emacs cant code complete effectively
 613 2012-10-30 18:13:29 <jrmithdobbs> daybyter: i use vim and not java and don't have issues with my editor getting bogged down
 614 2012-10-30 18:13:53 <daybyter> I don't want the editor to code...I'm the coder...
 615 2012-10-30 18:14:14 <daybyter> I just use the editor to enter the sources...
 616 2012-10-30 18:14:16 <Diablo-D3> I want the _language_ to code
 617 2012-10-30 18:14:17 <jrmithdobbs> I don't like that code completing crap either =/
 618 2012-10-30 18:14:17 <Diablo-D3> not the editor
 619 2012-10-30 18:14:33 <Diablo-D3> java sorta almost got it, but not really
 620 2012-10-30 18:15:09 <daybyter> I write cryptocoin trading stuff in Java and looking for contributors...
 621 2012-10-30 18:15:11 <jrmithdobbs> i've seen some kind of useful stuff with textmate as far as quickly jumping to the source file for a given function and things like that, but never understood the code completion stuff it gets it wrong more often than right no matter the IDE and just gets in the way
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 625 2012-10-30 18:27:25 <Diablo-D3> jrmithdobbs: depends on your ide settings
 626 2012-10-30 18:28:25 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: i dunno, bash and too many open editor stopped job abuse works well enough for me ;p
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 629 2012-10-30 18:29:01 <Diablo-D3> no, I mean, eclipse code complete is annoying as fuck until you tell it to shut the hell up
 630 2012-10-30 18:31:42 <jrmithdobbs> they should turn the shit off by default then
 631 2012-10-30 18:32:07 <Diablo-D3> its eclipse
 632 2012-10-30 18:32:12 <Diablo-D3> its trying to pretend to be visual studio
 633 2012-10-30 18:32:50 <_dr> it's the only obvious reason people use eclipse
 634 2012-10-30 18:33:06 <_dr> because they're too stupid to remember all their funky java methods :)
 635 2012-10-30 18:33:16 <Diablo-D3> yeah pretty much
 636 2012-10-30 18:33:17 <jgarzik> "For the coinbase (first) transaction, scriptSig length must be 2-100"
 637 2012-10-30 18:33:18 <jgarzik> huh
 638 2012-10-30 18:33:20 <jgarzik> never knew that
 639 2012-10-30 18:33:23 <Diablo-D3> java is the only language that NEEDS code complete
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 641 2012-10-30 18:33:38 <jgarzik> trying to work on block and TX validation
 642 2012-10-30 18:33:39 <_dr> Diablo-D3: so true
 643 2012-10-30 18:33:43 <jgarzik> reading through https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_rules#.22block.22_messages
 644 2012-10-30 18:34:04 <_dr> https://plus.google.com/105201233571140699617/posts/1QhcnQizuPc
 645 2012-10-30 18:34:08 <jgarzik> some of those are clearly implementation-based
 646 2012-10-30 18:34:09 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: be careful to check it against the source, it's been wrong sometimes.
 647 2012-10-30 18:34:12 <jgarzik> not really rules
 648 2012-10-30 18:34:14 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: for practical purposes, it's 4-100 now (incl height)
 649 2012-10-30 18:34:48 <gmaxwell> e.g. it's been sloppy over things like > vs >=
 650 2012-10-30 18:35:07 * jgarzik was getting that feeling, yeah
 651 2012-10-30 18:35:52 * jgarzik needs to figure out the time rules
 652 2012-10-30 18:35:59 <jgarzik> e.g. median time, not more than 2 hours in the future, etc.
 653 2012-10-30 18:37:01 <jgarzik> some of /Protocol_rules appears to be pre-ultraprune
 654 2012-10-30 18:37:14 <jgarzik> transcribing old C++ -> English, without much thought
 655 2012-10-30 18:43:00 <gmaxwell> funny.
 656 2012-10-30 18:43:06 <gmaxwell> the median time rule there is wrong.
 657 2012-10-30 18:43:23 <gmaxwell> I fixed it but lost a word in my edit ( :( ) and sipa broke it back again.
 658 2012-10-30 18:43:46 <gmaxwell> The time must be after the median, it can't _be_ the median.
 659 2012-10-30 18:44:14 <gmaxwell> e.g. median()+1 is good. median() is bad.
 660 2012-10-30 18:44:42 maaku has joined
 661 2012-10-30 18:47:07 <BlueMatt> how many blocks is the median again?
 662 2012-10-30 18:47:13 <BlueMatt> 11?
 663 2012-10-30 18:47:17 <gmaxwell> 11.
 664 2012-10-30 18:50:00 <Diablo-D3> 9000
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 666 2012-10-30 18:51:53 <BlueMatt> hmm...that needs way more thorough testing in the block creator...(it does only one test, using the block's timestamp of 5 blocks ago with each block having a timestamp +1 of the previous one...)
 667 2012-10-30 18:53:31 <gmaxwell> testnet3 has a bunch of blocks with the minimum allowed timestamps, but obviously none below that.
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 680 2012-10-30 19:16:09 <jgarzik> OK
 681 2012-10-30 19:16:13 <jgarzik> incoming payment detection
 682 2012-10-30 19:16:59 <jgarzik> 1) is a key fixed at compressed or uncompressed at birth, never changing?  or must I search for both compressed and uncompressed keys?
 683 2012-10-30 19:17:12 <jgarzik> 2) does one /search/ or /execute/ a script, to find incoming payments?
 684 2012-10-30 19:19:43 <gavinandresen> 1) if I were you, I'd search for both compressed and uncompressed, in both <pubkey> CHECKSIG and DUP HASH160 <hash_pubkey>... transactions
 685 2012-10-30 19:20:04 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: really? I was going to give the opposite answer.
 686 2012-10-30 19:20:04 <gavinandresen> 2) and you search for scriptPubKeys that you can understand.
 687 2012-10-30 19:20:08 <sipa> you never expect a payment to an address that was not created
 688 2012-10-30 19:20:26 <gmaxwell> In the reference client keys are compressed or uncompressed at birth and you only reconize the matching kind.
 689 2012-10-30 19:20:43 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: will you allow importing keys from elsewhere?
 690 2012-10-30 19:20:48 <sipa> if you only create compressed pubkeys and their corresponding addresses, you never need to look for payments to uncompressed ones
 691 2012-10-30 19:21:19 <sipa> abd the base58 format for private keys contains a flag to tell you whether the corresponding pubkey is compressed
 692 2012-10-30 19:21:36 <gmaxwell> Generally people should never expect that they can manipulate a script and have the far end detect it, unless they're explicitly told this is okay.
 693 2012-10-30 19:21:37 <gavinandresen> Looking for payments, I'd code it to look for both compressed and uncompressed. But on import, I'd always convert to compressed and always generate addresses/transactions based on compressed.
 694 2012-10-30 19:22:00 <sipa> gavinandresen: on import you need to be careful!
 695 2012-10-30 19:22:05 <sipa> not the other way around
 696 2012-10-30 19:22:07 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: uh. if you convert on import you're going to get a different address than expected.
 697 2012-10-30 19:22:22 <gmaxwell> This is going to make people who are importing because they wanted to use some vanity address quite happy. :P
 698 2012-10-30 19:22:46 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: I wouldn't support importing uncompressed vanity addresses....
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 700 2012-10-30 19:23:07 <sipa> exactly
 701 2012-10-30 19:23:09 <sipa> if you generated they privkey, you know what address you may have generated from it.
 702 2012-10-30 19:23:10 <gavinandresen> (well, I would, but they'd get compressed and wouldn't be vanity any more)
 703 2012-10-30 19:23:28 <gmaxwell> then you can just refuse to import any privkey without the compressed flag.
 704 2012-10-30 19:23:40 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: or, in other words:  "it depends on what you want to support"
 705 2012-10-30 19:23:45 <gmaxwell> (though yea, I do generally agree with moving away from non compressed pubkeys.
 706 2012-10-30 19:23:48 <gmaxwell> )
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 710 2012-10-30 19:25:04 <gmaxwell> A lot of users are still generating non-compressed pubkeys because of how walletupgrade works.
 711 2012-10-30 19:25:21 <gmaxwell> perhaps 0.8 should also force a wallet upgrade to 0.7 ?
 712 2012-10-30 19:27:05 <sipa> i'm beginning to regret my very first contribution to bitcoin
 713 2012-10-30 19:27:29 <sipa> (storing a bitvector of spentness in wallet transactions)
 714 2012-10-30 19:28:04 <jgarzik> well, picocoin is new
 715 2012-10-30 19:28:14 <jgarzik> so I'm all for (a) fixed at birth and (b) compressed by default
 716 2012-10-30 19:28:34 <sipa> no need to store that information in the wallet, it can be derived easily anway
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 718 2012-10-30 19:28:48 <jgarzik> just want to make sure I follow accepted standards for finding payments-to-my-keys
 719 2012-10-30 19:29:06 <sipa> jgarzik: fixed-at-birth is perfectly fine imho
 720 2012-10-30 19:29:18 <gmaxwell> sipa: there was recently some potential bug that I noticed was prevented by the wallet spentness check.
 721 2012-10-30 19:29:25 <gmaxwell> Be damned if I can remember what it was.
 722 2012-10-30 19:29:56 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: no initial plans to permit importing keys
 723 2012-10-30 19:30:05 <jgarzik> but it seems like a feature users might request, of an SPV
 724 2012-10-30 19:30:43 <sipa> BlueMatt: poke me if you're interested in discussing the encoding of partial merkle trees
 725 2012-10-30 19:32:25 <BlueMatt> sipa: sure, lemme look at what you wrote...
 726 2012-10-30 19:33:25 <jgarzik> So a client only recognizes incoming payments by pattern-matching script layouts?
 727 2012-10-30 19:33:38 <sipa> what needs to be stored: 1) number of txn in block  2) a number N  3) 2*N-1 bits  4) N hashes
 728 2012-10-30 19:33:41 <jgarzik> i.e. it only knows a set of standard scripts, rather than $anyscript ?
 729 2012-10-30 19:33:52 <jgarzik> and thus will not recognize complex payments-to-me by default?
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 731 2012-10-30 19:35:36 <sipa> jgarzik: you don't expect a payment to a complex script involving one of your keys without you knowing about it (i.e., participating in creation of said multisig)
 732 2012-10-30 19:35:52 <sipa> jgarzik: for P2SH it's entirely impossible whatsoever
 733 2012-10-30 19:36:22 <jgarzik> OK.  pattern matching is definitely doable.
 734 2012-10-30 19:40:54 <jgarzik> EC_KEY_new_by_curve_name(NID_secp256k1) ; EC_KEY_generate_key(pkey) ; EC_KEY_set_conv_form(pkey, POINT_CONVERSION_COMPRESSED)
 735 2012-10-30 19:41:03 <jgarzik> that is the correct magic, in the correct order?
 736 2012-10-30 19:43:48 <sipa> the two last ones can be swapped, i believe
 737 2012-10-30 19:43:50 <sipa> but yes
 738 2012-10-30 19:44:18 * jgarzik was following the order from bitcoind source code
 739 2012-10-30 19:44:40 <jgarzik> it calls SetCompressedPubKey() after key generation
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 744 2012-10-30 19:56:57 <sipa> BlueMatt: makes sense?
 745 2012-10-30 19:58:49 <BlueMatt> sipa: yea...simple enough algorithm, seems like dealing with it could be kinda ugly though...not that I can think of an effecient enough alternative though
 746 2012-10-30 19:59:29 <BlueMatt> (if Im reading the description right, its ideal in terms of minimum possible set of hashes stored ignoring the vBits stuff, right?)
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 748 2012-10-30 20:00:12 <runeks> what is an easy way to print out a CDataStream as hex?
 749 2012-10-30 20:01:47 <BlueMatt> use HexStr(CDataStream.begin(), CDataStream.end()).c_str() iirc
 750 2012-10-30 20:01:53 <BlueMatt> printf ("%s", ...)
 751 2012-10-30 20:02:05 <runeks> thanks! I'll try
 752 2012-10-30 20:03:04 <BlueMatt> sipa: meh, looks pretty close to ideal to me (vector<bool> is serialized as bits, not bytes iirc, right?)
 753 2012-10-30 20:03:33 <BlueMatt> or...no its only stored that way in memory...what about getting it to serialize that way
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 761 2012-10-30 20:13:46 <sipa> BlueMatt: writing a manual serializer isn't hard, but a few bytes isn't the problem, so preferrably something that's easy enough to implement in several languages
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 763 2012-10-30 20:14:34 <BlueMatt> TD: not sure if you've been paying attention, but we just stared discussing sipa's partial merkle tree stuff (https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/commit/3006e4e2d0774eee888f62caa44206050f5f3be9)
 764 2012-10-30 20:14:45 <TD> he showed it to me earlier
 765 2012-10-30 20:14:45 <sipa> BlueMatt: already told him about it :)
 766 2012-10-30 20:14:55 <BlueMatt> ok...guess Im too far behind
 767 2012-10-30 20:15:01 <TD> needs more work :)
 768 2012-10-30 20:15:16 <gmaxwell> hm? there is no reason to use anything inefficient for just packing a few bits. Since high speed isn't needed (we're only talking a few hundred bits tops) even a trivial bitpacker will be acceptable.
 769 2012-10-30 20:15:24 <BlueMatt> sipa: if you want really, really easy, just replace hashes that you dont need with 0-length vectors, but that wastes a lot of space (potentially)
 770 2012-10-30 20:15:38 <sipa> BlueMatt: huh?
 771 2012-10-30 20:15:40 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yep, I was just wondering
 772 2012-10-30 20:15:51 <BlueMatt> sipa: ship the whole merkle tree vector and drop things you dont need
 773 2012-10-30 20:15:58 <BlueMatt> but thats way worse (and grows too fast)
 774 2012-10-30 20:16:21 <sipa> BlueMatt: there's no reason to throw away what i wrote, i hope...
 775 2012-10-30 20:16:41 <sipa> BlueMatt: it already computes the minimal list of hashes needed
 776 2012-10-30 20:16:43 <BlueMatt> sipa: no, yours is definately better, I was just giving an example way down the line of easier to implement but worse space
 777 2012-10-30 20:17:41 <sipa> right, sure, it's a balance, but i think the algorithm is simple enough now (yell if you think it isn't...), so the only question is how to store that list of bits and hashes
 778 2012-10-30 20:20:11 <BlueMatt> it seems simple and Im hungry and tired, so it must be fine :)
 779 2012-10-30 20:21:27 <sipa> BlueMatt: anyway, i don't even know whether satoshi's serialize.h can deal with vector<bool> (i see no special casing for it, so i doubt it)
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 781 2012-10-30 20:22:07 <BlueMatt> Id assume it would end up writing then per-byte? I dont remember that code too well
 782 2012-10-30 20:22:13 <BlueMatt> one-bool-per-byte that is
 783 2012-10-30 20:22:24 <sipa> i think it will break :)
 784 2012-10-30 20:22:30 <BlueMatt> ahh, ok...
 785 2012-10-30 20:22:42 <BlueMatt> well, writing per-byte sounds good to me (unless you really wanna get fancy...)
 786 2012-10-30 20:23:17 <sipa> BlueMatt: anyway, what about this: { uint32 nTransactions; uint32 nLeafNodes; byte[(nLeafNodes*2-1+7)/8] vBits; uint256[nLeafNodes] vHash }
 787 2012-10-30 20:24:02 <BlueMatt> I was under the impression nLeafNodes is trivially calculateable from nTransactions?
 788 2012-10-30 20:24:07 <BlueMatt> calculable*
 789 2012-10-30 20:24:12 <sipa> no
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 791 2012-10-30 20:24:40 <sipa> it cannot be derived from the total number of transactions, and not from the number of matched transactions
 792 2012-10-30 20:24:46 <BlueMatt> oh, one is the number of txn you have, one is the total #?
 793 2012-10-30 20:24:57 <BlueMatt> yea, sorry misunderstood
 794 2012-10-30 20:25:02 <sipa> nTransactions is the total number of transactions in the block
 795 2012-10-30 20:25:26 <sipa> nLeafNodes is the number of leaf nodes in the partial merkle tree (which do not necessarily correspond to txid's, by the way)
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 798 2012-10-30 20:25:43 <sipa> as in, you can have leaf nodes at a height>0
 799 2012-10-30 20:25:44 <BlueMatt> yea
 800 2012-10-30 20:25:52 <BlueMatt> yep
 801 2012-10-30 20:26:29 <sipa> but you need the total number of transaction in order to know the shape of the tree (mostly to deal with the oddness at the end of the vector in case of an odd number of elements)
 802 2012-10-30 20:26:52 <BlueMatt> why not just let standard serialization code work its magic with a varint for the vector size? { uint32 nTransactions; byte[(nLeafNodes*2-1+7)/8] vBits; varint nLeafNodes; uint256[nLeafNodes] vHash }
 803 2012-10-30 20:27:18 <sipa> ok, sure
 804 2012-10-30 20:27:35 <sipa> the bytes would need to be afterwards then, as you need to know nLeafNodes
 805 2012-10-30 20:27:36 <BlueMatt> seems more like our standard
 806 2012-10-30 20:27:46 <BlueMatt> oh, sorry, yea
 807 2012-10-30 20:28:10 <sipa> or i don't mind storing them as a standard char array, and adding another varint for the number of bytes in front
 808 2012-10-30 20:28:12 <BlueMatt> or...also be lazy for vBits and let it put a varint there too, but...
 809 2012-10-30 20:28:15 <sipa> that it probably even more standard
 810 2012-10-30 20:28:24 <Luke-Jr> …
 811 2012-10-30 20:28:47 <Luke-Jr> sipa: so now we have 3 ways to encode numbers
 812 2012-10-30 20:28:49 <Luke-Jr> ?
 813 2012-10-30 20:28:51 <sipa> >
 814 2012-10-30 20:28:52 <sipa> ?
 815 2012-10-30 20:29:05 <BlueMatt> throwing in a few extra bytes to be lazy and use standard vector<?> encoding seems reasonable to me
 816 2012-10-30 20:29:13 <sipa> uint32, varint, ... what else, Luke-Jr?
 817 2012-10-30 20:29:38 <Luke-Jr> sipa: bigint
 818 2012-10-30 20:29:53 <sipa> well, sure, but how is that related to this?
 819 2012-10-30 20:30:03 <sipa> it's not like we're inventing a new format
 820 2012-10-30 20:30:22 <Luke-Jr> I'm not really paying attention, just expressing dislike of adding yet more number encodings; maybe I misunderstood something
 821 2012-10-30 20:30:39 <sipa> Luke-Jr: we're encoding a few numbers, a vector of hashes and a bitvector
 822 2012-10-30 20:31:29 <sipa> we need a way of encoding that bitvector, and the question is whether to do it efficiently (as we know how many bits it will have), or do it satosh-like :)
 823 2012-10-30 20:32:16 <BlueMatt> I prefer satoshi-like
 824 2012-10-30 20:32:27 <BlueMatt> (doesnt apply to bitcoinj, but may to others)
 825 2012-10-30 20:32:48 <sipa> BlueMatt: anyway, turning it into a vector<unsigned char> by packing the bits into bytes, and then use standard encoding for that vector is fine by me
 826 2012-10-30 20:33:06 <BlueMatt> that or byte-per-bit is fine either way
 827 2012-10-30 20:33:19 <sipa> that'd be a waste :)
 828 2012-10-30 20:33:34 <sipa> it could be up to a few kilobytes
 829 2012-10-30 20:33:44 <BlueMatt> true, bitset it is then
 830 2012-10-30 20:36:17 <Luke-Jr> if we know how many bits it will have… why encode length at all? <.<
 831 2012-10-30 20:36:35 <BlueMatt> because its more bitcoin-standard
 832 2012-10-30 20:37:02 * BlueMatt votes for length-in-bits, btw
 833 2012-10-30 20:37:08 <BlueMatt> ehh...has to be
 834 2012-10-30 20:37:11 <sipa> heh?
 835 2012-10-30 20:37:16 <sipa> that's completely pointless
 836 2012-10-30 20:37:35 <sipa> then you have the disadvantage of extra bytes + not being able to reuse serialization code
 837 2012-10-30 20:37:44 <BlueMatt> sorry, yea
 838 2012-10-30 20:37:49 * BlueMatt is way too distracted
 839 2012-10-30 20:37:51 * Luke-Jr votes whoever writes the code arbitrarily decides
 840 2012-10-30 20:38:56 * sipa introduces a range encoder to store the tree in an information-theoretically perfect way, gaining 0.415 bits per node
 841 2012-10-30 20:39:15 <Luke-Jr> ._.
 842 2012-10-30 20:39:45 <sipa> ok, kidding, ...
 843 2012-10-30 20:40:14 <kjj_> meh.  I'll just slap Burrows-Wheeler in front of your encoding and gain 5% more
 844 2012-10-30 20:40:37 * sipa explains Shannon's theorem to kjj_
 845 2012-10-30 20:41:04 * kjj_ explains humor to sipa
 846 2012-10-30 20:41:27 * sipa fails to understand
 847 2012-10-30 20:42:16 <BlueMatt> oh god...oh god
 848 2012-10-30 20:42:16 <BlueMatt> http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/30/3577656/disney-buys-lucasfilm-plans-to-release-star-wars-episode-7-in-2015
 849 2012-10-30 20:42:29 bitcoin has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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 851 2012-10-30 20:43:04 <kjj_> ha!  Not like Disney could do any worse with it than Lucas did
 852 2012-10-30 20:43:17 <helo> might as well milk it for what it's worth
 853 2012-10-30 20:43:26 <helo> economic growth ftw!
 854 2012-10-30 20:43:30 <BlueMatt> kjj_: how much do you want to bet?
 855 2012-10-30 20:43:42 <BlueMatt> bad 3d?
 856 2012-10-30 20:43:50 <BlueMatt> oh, wait...lucas did do that
 857 2012-10-30 20:44:13 <kjj_> nothing.  at this point, I don't even care.  I'm quite content to let Star Wars die
 858 2012-10-30 20:55:22 PiZZaMaN2K has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 859 2012-10-30 20:55:59 <Diablo-D3> lol someone punked theverge
 860 2012-10-30 20:56:00 <Diablo-D3> bwhahahaha
 861 2012-10-30 20:56:07 <Diablo-D3> disney couldnt afford lucasfilm to begin with
 862 2012-10-30 20:56:25 <Diablo-D3> and spoilers: there was no star wars 7, 8, 9
 863 2012-10-30 20:56:35 <Diablo-D3> george lucas admitted he lied about it
 864 2012-10-30 20:58:03 <gavinandresen> I'm going to wait for Star Wars 11.
 865 2012-10-30 21:01:06 <sipa> Star Wars 11: Return of the Jedi, Again!
 866 2012-10-30 21:02:13 <jgarzik> and I will pay money for it
 867 2012-10-30 21:02:20 <jgarzik> like a sucker
 868 2012-10-30 21:03:37 <BlueMatt> we all will
 869 2012-10-30 21:03:50 <jgarzik> punked?  http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/30/disney-buying-lucas-films-for-4-billion/
 870 2012-10-30 21:04:30 <jgarzik> it's on CNN and ABC too
 871 2012-10-30 21:04:49 <jgarzik> and Reuters
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 877 2012-10-30 21:20:02 <Tykling> can I get bitcoind to fire an event when it receives a transaction somehow ?
 878 2012-10-30 21:20:09 <phantomcircuit> lol ATT
 879 2012-10-30 21:20:20 <phantomcircuit> they call me and say UVERSE IS AVAILABLE IN YOUR AREA!!!
 880 2012-10-30 21:20:38 <phantomcircuit> the fastest connection they offer is slower than the slowest connection from comcast
 881 2012-10-30 21:20:42 <phantomcircuit> what is wrong with them
 882 2012-10-30 21:20:47 <jgarzik> Tykling: do you mean, for the mempool?
 883 2012-10-30 21:20:58 <jgarzik> Tykling: bitcoind has -blocknotify, which you can then scan for tx's
 884 2012-10-30 21:21:08 <Tykling> jgarzik: like when someone transfers btc to one of my addresses
 885 2012-10-30 21:21:30 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, have to say that always seemed like a bad idea
 886 2012-10-30 21:22:05 Ferroh has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 887 2012-10-30 21:22:42 <jgarzik> Tykling: nothing so specific and pluggable, unfortunately.  you can watch blocks, and scan them for your own transactions.  or watch the debug.log, to see when it notices some wallet activity.
 888 2012-10-30 21:22:45 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: which?
 889 2012-10-30 21:23:05 <Luke-Jr> replace debug.log with a fifo <.<
 890 2012-10-30 21:23:18 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, -blocknotify
 891 2012-10-30 21:23:33 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: why?
 892 2012-10-30 21:23:48 <phantomcircuit> unspecified feeling of anxiety whenever system() is used
 893 2012-10-30 21:23:49 <phantomcircuit> :P
 894 2012-10-30 21:24:18 <Luke-Jr> …
 895 2012-10-30 21:24:29 <Luke-Jr> iow, "no reason, just paranoia"?
 896 2012-10-30 21:24:42 <phantomcircuit> yes pretty much
 897 2012-10-30 21:24:51 <phantomcircuit> oh wait i know
 898 2012-10-30 21:25:00 <phantomcircuit> if you're running bitcoind as it's own user
 899 2012-10-30 21:25:16 <Luke-Jr> …
 900 2012-10-30 21:25:16 <phantomcircuit> specifying that will run the command as the bitcoind user
 901 2012-10-30 21:25:21 <Luke-Jr> of course?
 902 2012-10-30 21:25:23 <phantomcircuit> which is probably not the wanted behavious
 903 2012-10-30 21:25:26 <phantomcircuit> behavious*
 904 2012-10-30 21:25:31 <phantomcircuit> lol
 905 2012-10-30 21:25:34 <phantomcircuit> I CAN DO THIS
 906 2012-10-30 21:25:37 <phantomcircuit> behaviour*
 907 2012-10-30 21:27:10 <phantomcircuit> i guess it's just a general feeling that bitcoind should be isolated as much as possible from the rest of the system and only interact using well defined network protocols
 908 2012-10-30 21:28:05 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
 909 2012-10-30 21:28:38 <gmaxwell> Interprocess communication is hard, lets go shopping instead.
 910 2012-10-30 21:29:03 <phantomcircuit> lol
 911 2012-10-30 21:29:17 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: -blocknotify='socat someoptions'
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 913 2012-10-30 21:29:48 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, yes because that's what bitcoin needs
 914 2012-10-30 21:29:50 <phantomcircuit> more hacks
 915 2012-10-30 21:29:52 * phantomcircuit runs
 916 2012-10-30 21:30:03 <sipa> clearly it needs SMTP support
 917 2012-10-30 21:30:25 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: since there's no sensible network protocol, -blocknotify lets you plug in any :P
 918 2012-10-30 21:30:36 <Luke-Jr> including the traditional UNIX signals
 919 2012-10-30 21:30:49 <Luke-Jr> which is probably what everyone is still using
 920 2012-10-30 21:31:45 <jgarzik> Ouch.  Best case for restoring flooded NYC subway tunnels is 29 days.  7 of 10 under-river tunnels are flooded.
 921 2012-10-30 21:37:14 <jurov> what about blocking RPC read instead of blocknotify?
 922 2012-10-30 21:37:31 <sipa> ;;bc,estimate
 923 2012-10-30 21:37:32 <gribble> 3510777.77282495
 924 2012-10-30 21:37:42 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
 925 2012-10-30 21:37:44 <gribble> Current Blocks: 205765 | Current Difficulty: 3304356.3929903 | Next Difficulty At Block: 207647 | Next Difficulty In: 1882 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 9 hours, 27 minutes, and 38 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 3510777.77282495 | Estimated Percent Change: 6.24694661485
 926 2012-10-30 21:41:11 <jurov> have a rpc command named, like, 'blockwait' that will return only after next block arrives
 927 2012-10-30 21:41:22 <jurov> maybe with some timeout
 928 2012-10-30 21:45:04 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, well given there was like 2ft of water in midtown that seems pretty reasonable actually
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 930 2012-10-30 21:45:30 <jrmithdobbs> jurov: that's not safe. there's a myriad of things on the network (as in, your not the bitcoin p2p network) that could cause the connection to drop before the block actually arrived
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 933 2012-10-30 21:46:08 <phantomcircuit> jurov, not to mention there is basically no reason to do that
 934 2012-10-30 21:46:34 <jurov> jrmithdobbs, client can clearly distinguish that.. ok, just an idea
 935 2012-10-30 21:47:00 <phantomcircuit> just call listsinceblock in a loop
 936 2012-10-30 21:47:18 <phantomcircuit> er
 937 2012-10-30 21:47:42 <phantomcircuit> yeah
 938 2012-10-30 21:47:49 <jrmithdobbs> just use blocknotify
 939 2012-10-30 21:48:10 <phantomcircuit> bleh
 940 2012-10-30 21:48:18 <phantomcircuit> i still think that's an ugly hack
 941 2012-10-30 21:48:30 <jrmithdobbs> better than polling rpc constantly
 942 2012-10-30 21:49:18 <jrmithdobbs> just set -blocknotify='echo %s > ~bitcoin/.bitcoin/bestblock'; and use api of your choice to wait for it to change
 943 2012-10-30 21:49:20 <jurov> in fact i was unaware of blocknotify, am using the polling
 944 2012-10-30 21:50:14 <jrmithdobbs> jurov: eg, you could do tail -n 0 --follow=name ~bitcoin/.bitcoin/bestblock; to get the behaviour you wanted with the rpc call
 945 2012-10-30 21:50:19 <jrmithdobbs> (on the local system, at least)
 946 2012-10-30 21:51:34 <jrmithdobbs> (actually I don't know if that'll work, i forget if blocknotify uses system() or not, but you get the idea)
 947 2012-10-30 21:51:50 <jurov> thx, i don't need it so much in realtime.
 948 2012-10-30 21:52:51 <jurov> except maybe when people want urgent deposit to coinbr, lol
 949 2012-10-30 21:52:53 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, not really
 950 2012-10-30 21:52:59 <phantomcircuit> getinfo is a very cheap rpc call
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 960 2012-10-30 22:26:39 <an3k> wth is going on with the btc network? still have zero confirmations for a transaction made one hour ago :(
 961 2012-10-30 22:26:55 <an3k> are there really 90% of all btc users located in new york? :)
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 970 2012-10-30 22:46:39 <weex> no. not new york. atlantic city.
 971 2012-10-30 22:48:19 jokc has quit (Quit: Yo!)
 972 2012-10-30 22:48:41 <jouke> No, off the coast of africa somewhere
 973 2012-10-30 22:50:16 <Luke-Jr> an3k: how much fee?
 974 2012-10-30 22:51:04 <an3k> Luke-Jr: dunno, where can i see that? i'm just receiving the coins
 975 2012-10-30 22:52:19 <jouke> Do you have the tx-id?
 976 2012-10-30 22:55:12 <an3k> yes jouke
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 978 2012-10-30 23:00:24 <Luke-Jr> an3k: doubleclick on it in your txn list
 979 2012-10-30 23:01:02 <Luke-Jr> total up all the CTxIn, and subtract all the CTxOut
 980 2012-10-30 23:01:07 <Luke-Jr> difference is the fee
 981 2012-10-30 23:03:10 <an3k> i'm using bitcoin-qt ... only see the credit and net amount but it looks like there is no fee :(
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 989 2012-10-30 23:07:47 <runeks> the one-byte hash type that is appended to the end of scriptSig is not pushed to the stack, right?
 990 2012-10-30 23:11:05 <runeks> i mean: the one-byte hash type that is appended to the end of the signature (in scriptSig)... is this pushed to the stack as well?
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 998 2012-10-30 23:32:50 <sipa> runeks: it's part of the signature , as far as bitcoin is concerned
 999 2012-10-30 23:33:05 <sipa> so it's part of the byte sequence pushed on the stack by the input script
1000 2012-10-30 23:33:17 <runeks> ok. good.
1001 2012-10-30 23:35:38 <runeks> would there be any reason that bitcoin-qt would stop printing to debug.log when encountering a printf statement? it worked fine before. but doesn't any longer...
1002 2012-10-30 23:35:53 <sipa> is your disk full?
1003 2012-10-30 23:37:29 <runeks> nope. 2.3 GB available.
1004 2012-10-30 23:37:51 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1005 2012-10-30 23:38:09 <Luke-Jr> is the file > 2 GB?
1006 2012-10-30 23:38:24 <runeks> no
1007 2012-10-30 23:38:41 <runeks> hmm. wait a minute. I might be wrong here.
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1009 2012-10-30 23:39:52 <sipa> BlueMatt: crap, just realized: the nice rule that nBits = 2*nHashes-1 is only guaranteed if nTransaction is a power of two, otherwise it can be a bit off due to the odd-number-of-hashes rule
1010 2012-10-30 23:40:01 <sipa> but not a problem actually
1011 2012-10-30 23:41:14 <runeks> I'm trying to submit a transaction using sendrawtransaction. I get an error (code -22, "TX rejected") and I'm trying to figure out why it's happening.
1012 2012-10-30 23:41:21 <runeks> debug.log says: "ERROR: ConnectInputs() : c9b6970ac8 VerifySignature failed"
1013 2012-10-30 23:41:35 <Luke-Jr> sipa: just changes the rule slightly
1014 2012-10-30 23:41:44 <runeks> I have a printf in CKey::Verify that doesn't get triggered (first line in the function)
1015 2012-10-30 23:42:23 <runeks> hmm... does bitcoin-qt store failed signature checks? and if so, in what file?
1016 2012-10-30 23:42:42 <sipa> no
1017 2012-10-30 23:43:01 <sipa> only in the signature cache, but that's memory-only
1018 2012-10-30 23:43:11 <runeks> odd
1019 2012-10-30 23:43:45 <runeks> so there's no reason  CKey::Verify wouldn't get called when submitting a transaction via sendrawtransaction?
1020 2012-10-30 23:44:11 <jgarzik> runeks: well it might fail encoding or otherwise encounter an error before hitting that function
1021 2012-10-30 23:44:12 <sipa> it can certainly fail before reaching that stage
1022 2012-10-30 23:44:21 <runeks> oh...
1023 2012-10-30 23:44:21 <jgarzik> yes
1024 2012-10-30 23:44:26 <sipa> runeks: what kind of output does it spend?
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1028 2012-10-30 23:45:32 <runeks> sipa: 'DUP HASH160 20:d6b55bdb9d192f8c05b5eda8b0982d5088018189 EQUALVERIFY CHECKSIG
1029 2012-10-30 23:45:58 <runeks> mind you, I'm "handcrafting" the hex transaction in Python...
1030 2012-10-30 23:46:12 <sipa> first of all, is the pubkey correct?
1031 2012-10-30 23:46:22 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
1032 2012-10-30 23:46:30 <sipa> if that were not the case, the equalverify will fail, and you'll never reach the checksig
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1034 2012-10-30 23:47:58 <runeks> I think I know what's happening. VerifySignature is failing at comparing txin.prevout.hash and txFrom.GetHash()
1035 2012-10-30 23:48:23 <runeks> so it doesn't get to checking the signature
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