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7 2012-10-31 00:02:52 <Luke-Jr> I don't suppose anyone thinks it'd be a good idea to show pdifficulty in bitcoind/getinfo or Bitcoin-Qt?
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9 2012-10-31 00:04:54 <sipa> pdifficulty?
10 2012-10-31 00:06:25 <Luke-Jr> sipa: pool difficulty
11 2012-10-31 00:06:38 <Luke-Jr> ie, target measured by zero bits instead of the odd compressed version
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14 2012-10-31 00:07:18 <sipa> meh, just divide by 1.000015
15 2012-10-31 00:08:16 <Luke-Jr> :P
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42 2012-10-31 01:00:36 <runeks> OK. So I've modified key.cpp to print out debug information about the signature, hash and public key that goes into it. it returns 0 (bad signature). I've then taken the output it prints to debug.log and fed into the ecdsa_ssl python module from here: https://github.com/runeksvendsen/brutus
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45 2012-10-31 01:01:01 <sipa> oops
46 2012-10-31 01:01:09 <runeks> it says the signature is good! I can't figure out why bitcoin-qt says the sig is bad and the Python script says it's good (the Python script uses OpenSSL as well)
47 2012-10-31 01:01:28 <runeks> these are then changes and the output: http://pastebin.com/jz54iJjM
48 2012-10-31 01:02:53 <sipa> can you copy paste the signature here?
49 2012-10-31 01:03:31 <runeks> 3046022100965dcef5b41c023d4b9558acd5a27ce8d61b02c2c5a82b94af5ebe1cb7dc5429022100f45ace1565098bb7a3360ef4c57b41af22babf14cae429e512c0cf965ab1007b
50 2012-10-31 01:06:23 <sipa> looks properly encoded
51 2012-10-31 01:07:09 <runeks> verify() from here says the signature is good too: https://github.com/runeksvendsen/brutus/blob/master/ecdsa_ssl.py#L78
52 2012-10-31 01:07:19 <runeks> ECDSA_verify in key.cpp says it's not
53 2012-10-31 01:07:29 <runeks> hash is 21e1b0cbef85ab6fea897385b61ed7033fd1f5b5b1394d654ac7a72bd304048a
54 2012-10-31 01:07:41 <runeks> public key is 0475724b51b6b73ac8c0182a60db23a7b2e59258099e195b0a6f2bb0324e0f1c6e2d46c3b0ed19fe38674c3f2165e28468ffa3fb90ee2b368826f11ae43c6e6413
55 2012-10-31 01:08:30 <runeks> could it be something related to byte order?
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57 2012-10-31 01:11:22 <sipa> doubt that
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63 2012-10-31 01:17:02 <runeks> yeah I know. I'm grasping straws. I can't figure out why the exact same function with seemingly the exact same input gives different output.
64 2012-10-31 01:19:18 <runeks> OK now it works...
65 2012-10-31 01:19:40 <jrmithdobbs> bad copy/paste? heh
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67 2012-10-31 01:21:00 <runeks> I had reversed the byte order of the hash to be signed. so it would print out the same way it does when printing it from key.cpp. apparently I shouldn't do that.
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71 2012-10-31 01:22:05 <kjj_> bitcoin is an ungodly tangle of endianness confusion
72 2012-10-31 01:23:35 <runeks> OK. now I see what was wrong. apparently, the hash, in bitcoin-qt, is stored in reverse byte order. in order to verify it in my Python code I had to reverse the byte order of *only* the hash (not the pubkey/signature)
73 2012-10-31 01:24:33 <runeks> so when I didn't reverse the byte order and my Python code verified it correctly, bitcoin-qt didn't (because it used the reverse byte order).
74 2012-10-31 01:24:35 <runeks> phew!
75 2012-10-31 01:24:37 <Diablo-D3> runeks: its stored in little endian
76 2012-10-31 01:24:43 <Diablo-D3> even though its fucking text
77 2012-10-31 01:24:48 <Diablo-D3> and no one can fix it now
78 2012-10-31 01:25:18 <kjj_> even worse, some of the hashes are of the ASCII hex strings
79 2012-10-31 01:25:37 <runeks> so it's inherent to the uint256 type?
80 2012-10-31 01:25:47 <Diablo-D3> runeks: nope
81 2012-10-31 01:25:57 <Diablo-D3> because I have no clue what it is on a big endian machine
82 2012-10-31 01:26:11 <kjj_> heh. Satoshi was a better cryptographer than he was a programmer
83 2012-10-31 01:26:21 <Diablo-D3> however, its invalid for a textual representation of a number to be anything but big endian
84 2012-10-31 01:26:43 <kjj_> some things are in network byte order, some things are in the memory byte order of the machine he wrote the first version on
85 2012-10-31 01:26:58 <Diablo-D3> kjj_: no
86 2012-10-31 01:27:05 <Diablo-D3> its quite entirely possible its in big endian on big endian
87 2012-10-31 01:27:34 <Diablo-D3> or you could end up with a broken endian
88 2012-10-31 01:27:47 <Diablo-D3> 256 bit numbers are not native on any cpu that bitcoin runs on
89 2012-10-31 01:28:04 <kjj_> yeah, some things in the protocol are Intel-endian
90 2012-10-31 01:28:18 <Diablo-D3> little
91 2012-10-31 01:28:22 <Diablo-D3> and like I said, I dont know
92 2012-10-31 01:28:23 <kjj_> I'd have to go back through my notes to remember what
93 2012-10-31 01:28:34 <Diablo-D3> but yeah, hashes are one of the things that are fucked up
94 2012-10-31 01:28:57 <jgarzik> very few things are in network byte order
95 2012-10-31 01:29:01 <runeks> Diablo-D3: it seems to be the case though. because when I print out the hash like this in Python: hash[::-1].encode('hex')
96 2012-10-31 01:29:03 <jgarzik> vast majority is little endian
97 2012-10-31 01:29:11 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: thats the problem
98 2012-10-31 01:29:13 <Diablo-D3> its text
99 2012-10-31 01:29:16 <Diablo-D3> endian does not apply here
100 2012-10-31 01:29:20 <Diablo-D3> if its anything but big endian, it is wrong.
101 2012-10-31 01:29:22 <runeks> I get the same output as when I print it out like this in key.cpp: hash.GetHex().c_str()
102 2012-10-31 01:29:30 <runeks> so somewhere the byte order is being reversed
103 2012-10-31 01:29:54 <jgarzik> endian does apply, because we do less-than comparisons
104 2012-10-31 01:29:57 <jgarzik> not just byte compare
105 2012-10-31 01:30:01 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: not in text you dont.
106 2012-10-31 01:30:05 <runeks> so in Python I have to reverse it and in bitcoin-qt I do not
107 2012-10-31 01:30:27 <jgarzik> Diablo-D3: in bitcoin we do, and this is #bitcoin-dev, so that's all that matters ;p
108 2012-10-31 01:30:38 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: yes, and bitcoin does not comply with reality
109 2012-10-31 01:30:42 <Diablo-D3> which is a massive bug
110 2012-10-31 01:30:52 <Diablo-D3> and it cant be fixed because too much also broken software relies on that
111 2012-10-31 01:30:55 <Diablo-D3> so fuck satoshi
112 2012-10-31 01:31:04 <Diablo-D3> this is why I hate when academics write code
113 2012-10-31 01:31:19 <Diablo-D3> in theory their shit works, but goddamned is it so goddamned fucking useless
114 2012-10-31 01:32:32 <runeks> works in practice as well
115 2012-10-31 01:32:54 <jgarzik> runeks: JFYI: https://github.com/jgarzik/pynode/tree/master/bitcoin and http://yyz.us/bitcoin/poold.py
116 2012-10-31 01:33:13 <jgarzik> runeks: both of those codebases have examples of dealing with bitcoin data structures + python longs + hex numbers
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118 2012-10-31 01:34:16 <runeks> I actually looked through your code. to find out how to use OpenSSL in Python.
119 2012-10-31 01:36:21 <runeks> I think I've learned what I need to wrt. dealing with numbers and hex and data by now. what threw me off was that uint256 was printed in reverse byte order, as opposed to all the other types I was printing
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122 2012-10-31 01:44:06 <jgarzik> hum
123 2012-10-31 01:44:16 <jgarzik> sometimes code works, when you did not expect it to work.
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127 2012-10-31 01:57:43 <DBordello> what would be the consequences of someone throwing a ton of hash power at the test net and then abandoning it?
128 2012-10-31 01:58:02 <kjj_> free coins for whoever did it
129 2012-10-31 01:58:53 <kjj_> testnet will accept a block resetting difficulty after a little while without any blocks
130 2012-10-31 01:59:27 <DBordello> ah, I didn't realize that
131 2012-10-31 02:05:16 <gmaxwell> DBordello: people abadoning it was why we added that rule
132 2012-10-31 02:05:34 <DBordello> gmaxwell, seems like a good one. How long does it take to reset?
133 2012-10-31 02:05:40 <gmaxwell> people would push the difficulty up to 500 then vanish and we'd go days without a block.
134 2012-10-31 02:06:06 <gmaxwell> DBordello: 20 minutes after the last block the network will accept one at diff 1.
135 2012-10-31 02:06:20 <DBordello> gmaxwell, great rule :)
136 2012-10-31 02:06:34 <gmaxwell> there is a bug in it that can cause the difficulty to be rest to one too..
137 2012-10-31 02:06:56 <gmaxwell> (if one of those 20 minute blocks is the retarget the difficulty is warped back to one)
138 2012-10-31 02:07:23 <DBordello> ah
139 2012-10-31 02:07:35 <DBordello> is it actively mined?
140 2012-10-31 02:07:41 <DBordello> or at least passively?
141 2012-10-31 02:08:56 <gmaxwell> it's continually mined, yes
142 2012-10-31 02:09:08 <gmaxwell> Jeff and I at least. If nothing else it gets those 20 minute blocks.
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155 2012-10-31 03:00:29 <Icoin> bitcoind 0.7.1 @rpi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93724.msg1308306#msg1308306
156 2012-10-31 03:00:42 <Icoin> ahh sorry bitcoin-qt
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163 2012-10-31 03:09:19 <phantomcircuit> Icoin, im guessing that doesn't perform very well
164 2012-10-31 03:10:07 <Icoin> member:phantomcircuit: the performance is surprisingly good..
165 2012-10-31 03:10:20 <Icoin> of course the chain load isnt the fastest
166 2012-10-31 03:10:37 <Icoin> but once the chain is loaded it works
167 2012-10-31 03:12:35 <Icoin> bitcoin-qt 0.7.1 works stable on rpi
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169 2012-10-31 03:13:31 <Icoin> 512 mb ram helps a lot
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172 2012-10-31 03:18:35 <BlueMatt> wait...so why do you need to do a custom build...?
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174 2012-10-31 03:21:42 <forsetifox> And why did you throw your build instructions in a thread about Devcoin Bounty Security? Heh.
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187 2012-10-31 03:41:52 <jgarzik> picocoin appears to load and validate up to height 193000, in under 1 second
188 2012-10-31 03:42:04 <jgarzik> better than I expected
189 2012-10-31 03:42:38 <jgarzik> blockchain database correctly calculates hashBestChain etc. through forks
190 2012-10-31 03:43:01 <jgarzik> *headers only
191 2012-10-31 03:43:09 <Luke-Jr> ah
192 2012-10-31 03:43:12 <Luke-Jr> big difference :p
193 2012-10-31 03:43:22 <Luke-Jr> I was about to say "time to throw away Satoshi's code then?" ;)
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205 2012-10-31 03:56:55 <amiller> jgarzik, that's cool.
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285 2012-10-31 08:20:04 <ThomasV> why can a transaction be included in two blocks?
286 2012-10-31 08:20:12 <Icoin> bitcoin-qt and devcoin-qt @ rpi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93724.msg1308306#msg1308306
287 2012-10-31 08:21:25 <sipa> ThomasV: can it?
288 2012-10-31 08:21:49 <ThomasV> oh, no, wait, it was an orphaned one, sorry
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306 2012-10-31 09:23:47 <abrkn> if i send money to another address in my wallet, nothing is sent to the network?
307 2012-10-31 09:26:21 <sipa> sure it is
308 2012-10-31 09:26:44 <sipa> addresses are public, and ownership of coins by addresses is tracked by the network
309 2012-10-31 09:31:28 <abrkn> ah, it was just a little slow
310 2012-10-31 09:31:45 <abrkn> trying to set up a wallet balance tracking mechanism for my awesome game
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361 2012-10-31 11:16:10 <abrkn> https://github.com/abrkn/blockchain <- finally made this pile of shit work!
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381 2012-10-31 12:22:20 * drizztbsd hates node.js trend.
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402 2012-10-31 13:37:15 <drizztbsd> we should change bitcoin implementation when first asic board comes out :P
403 2012-10-31 13:39:48 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
404 2012-10-31 13:40:27 <gmaxwell> drizztbsd: Thats a terrible idea. The introduction of asic mining hardware to the public is good news.
405 2012-10-31 13:41:10 <drizztbsd> why?
406 2012-10-31 13:41:38 <gmaxwell> Because only by doing that can the network be strong against an attacker who would have their own made.
407 2012-10-31 13:42:39 [Tycho] has joined
408 2012-10-31 13:42:50 pnicholson has joined
409 2012-10-31 13:42:50 <gmaxwell> The whole idea of bitcoin is that attacking is expensive enough that you're better off cooperating, this doesn't work so well if the attacker has a huge price advantage. E.g. if the attacker uses the same technology as the honest users then he must spend more than them.
410 2012-10-31 13:42:57 <[Tycho]> !seen tcatm
411 2012-10-31 13:42:58 <gribble> tcatm was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 week, 6 days, 12 hours, 46 minutes, and 37 seconds ago: <tcatm> MC1984: 0.7.1 will load it automatically, for 0.7.0 -loadblock is needed
412 2012-10-31 13:43:14 <[Tycho]> Where is he ?
413 2012-10-31 13:43:33 <gmaxwell> drizztbsd: If the attacker uses technology 10x more efficient, then they need to spend much less.
414 2012-10-31 13:43:44 <drizztbsd> yep, 51% attach
415 2012-10-31 13:43:46 <gmaxwell> [Tycho]: no idea.
416 2012-10-31 13:43:46 <drizztbsd> attac*
417 2012-10-31 13:49:55 [Tycho] has quit (Changing host)
418 2012-10-31 13:49:55 [Tycho] has joined
419 2012-10-31 13:53:23 <[Tycho]> Got an e-mail from someone @icsi.berkeley.edu telling that they are investigate bitcoin-related botnets :)
420 2012-10-31 13:53:35 <[Tycho]> *investigating
421 2012-10-31 13:57:27 Kakasper has joined
422 2012-10-31 13:57:47 <Kakasper> Why is Bitcoin.org calling itself the official site of Bitcoin?
423 2012-10-31 13:58:45 <kjj_> Atlas, is that you?
424 2012-10-31 13:59:07 Diablo-D3 has joined
425 2012-10-31 14:00:39 <Kakasper> Serious question.
426 2012-10-31 14:01:18 <kjj_> you know what's really funny? the word official only appears on that page in the negative
427 2012-10-31 14:01:53 <Kakasper> http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=bitcoin&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
428 2012-10-31 14:02:07 <Kakasper> "Official site offering documentation, forums and the open source client software"
429 2012-10-31 14:02:17 <kjj_> what's your point?
430 2012-10-31 14:02:27 Descry has joined
431 2012-10-31 14:02:41 <kjj_> did you look at the page, or are you just bitching because google has it tagged as the official site?
432 2012-10-31 14:02:44 <Kakasper> It doesn't leave room for competition on Google if everyone is led to believe that is the central point.
433 2012-10-31 14:02:53 <kjj_> take it up with google then
434 2012-10-31 14:02:56 <Kakasper> No, you guys tagged it that way
435 2012-10-31 14:03:04 <kjj_> you guys?
436 2012-10-31 14:03:07 <Kakasper> It's in the pages meta
437 2012-10-31 14:03:21 <Kakasper> whoever here maintains the page
438 2012-10-31 14:04:02 <Icoin> hi can someone please add the rpi bitcoin-qt 0.7.1 biany add to the main bitcoin.org site ?
439 2012-10-31 14:04:18 <Icoin> binary*
440 2012-10-31 14:05:01 <Icoin> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101559.msg1308072#msg1308072
441 2012-10-31 14:05:02 <kjj_> honestly, I have no idea who runs that site. the site itself doesn't make any claims, but even if it did, I wouldn't care
442 2012-10-31 14:05:31 one_zero has quit ()
443 2012-10-31 14:05:48 <sipa> Kakasper: pull requests welcome; http://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org
444 2012-10-31 14:05:59 <Kakasper> Thanks.
445 2012-10-31 14:06:04 Kakasper has quit (Quit: Page closed)
446 2012-10-31 14:06:21 <kjj_> well, that guy sure lived up to the Kaka part of his name. :(
447 2012-10-31 14:06:45 <kjj_> anyone ever use a hardware RNG other than on a newish Intel motherboard?
448 2012-10-31 14:07:02 vampireb has joined
449 2012-10-31 14:07:40 <sipa> Icoin: why devcoin? patches needed -> please get them merged in mainline
450 2012-10-31 14:08:10 <Icoin> sipa: sorry wrong window https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101559.msg1308335#msg1308335
451 2012-10-31 14:08:48 <Icoin> sipa: devcoin is mergedmining capable since quite a while
452 2012-10-31 14:09:51 <sipa> Icoin: not sure what you mean, but we're not going to put an altcoin binary on the main page
453 2012-10-31 14:10:19 ThomasV has joined
454 2012-10-31 14:10:20 <Icoin> sipa: i talk about a bitcoin-qt binary not the devcoin-qt binary
455 2012-10-31 14:10:33 <sipa> Icoin: ok
456 2012-10-31 14:11:20 <Icoin> sipa: both are compiled but for you guys i just talk about bitcoin-qt for rpi https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101559.msg1308335#msg1308335
457 2012-10-31 14:12:39 <sipa> does it require any changes to the source code or makefiles? can its builds be verified through gitian?
458 2012-10-31 14:12:51 <Icoin> sipa: no changes
459 2012-10-31 14:13:08 <Icoin> sipa: its the original source compiled on a rpi
460 2012-10-31 14:13:30 Descry has quit (Quit: Leaving)
461 2012-10-31 14:13:46 <Icoin> sipa: you find a howto in the thread i posted earlyer
462 2012-10-31 14:14:14 <sipa> does it require an rpi to compile?
463 2012-10-31 14:14:25 <Icoin> sipa bitcoin-qt was compiled same as default without qr-code
464 2012-10-31 14:15:17 <sipa> a gitian build would be nice, but i don't think the userbase for rpis is large enough to burden releases
465 2012-10-31 14:15:33 <Icoin> since the compilation took more then two hours and there is just limited ram present 512 mb i have to wait to compile it with qr-code
466 2012-10-31 14:15:34 <sipa> (though i'll try it myself :p)
467 2012-10-31 14:16:11 datagutt has joined
468 2012-10-31 14:16:20 <Icoin> sipa: this is just the beginning, next rpi like board is just about to get prouced http://www.indiegogo.com/cubieboard
469 2012-10-31 14:16:36 <Icoin> produced*
470 2012-10-31 14:17:41 <Icoin> sipa: i like the idea that bitcoin-qt is able to run on this 50 bucks computers, this helps the diversification
471 2012-10-31 14:18:26 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
472 2012-10-31 14:18:29 BCBot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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474 2012-10-31 14:18:59 <sipa> well, make it work in gitian (tedious probably, and will require some hacking, as you'll need a rbi sdcard image), and it becomes relatively easy
475 2012-10-31 14:19:06 BCBot2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
476 2012-10-31 14:19:20 <sipa> but i don't like promoting an image that can't be verified
477 2012-10-31 14:19:37 <Icoin> sipa: what do you need for verification ?
478 2012-10-31 14:20:16 <Icoin> sipa: thats why my tendency is for debian wheezy as it realy works flawless
479 2012-10-31 14:20:53 <Icoin> its slow but stable
480 2012-10-31 14:21:38 Kakasper has joined
481 2012-10-31 14:21:43 <sipa> Icoin: you know all bitcoind/-qt vinaries are produced by a system called gitian, which runs the compilation in a verifiable virtual machine, that produces a binary that is bit-for-bit identical for everyone?
482 2012-10-31 14:21:58 <Kakasper> How do you join the Bitcoin Github and make a pull request?
483 2012-10-31 14:22:09 BCBot has joined
484 2012-10-31 14:22:09 <sipa> we don't release before enough developers signed the binary
485 2012-10-31 14:22:54 <Kakasper> or is the Bitcoin github an exclusive club?
486 2012-10-31 14:23:00 servvs has joined
487 2012-10-31 14:23:20 <Icoin> sipa: thanks
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489 2012-10-31 14:25:09 <Kakasper> Hello?
490 2012-10-31 14:25:12 <kjj_> grr. anyone with a google wallet want to order something for me in exchange for bitcoins?
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499 2012-10-31 14:32:06 <jakenickelson> How do you make a pull request on the Bitcoin Github?
500 2012-10-31 14:32:31 <kjj_> jakenickelson: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4571.0
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505 2012-10-31 14:42:26 <kjj_> ugh. why is it so hard to find a cheap, available hardware entropy source?
506 2012-10-31 14:42:52 <gmaxwell> kjj_: entropykey isn't terribly expensive
507 2012-10-31 14:43:08 <kjj_> yeah, but I'm sure as hell not going to use google wallet to buy one
508 2012-10-31 14:43:15 <kjj_> heh, no offense. :)
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511 2012-10-31 14:44:58 <gmaxwell> kjj_: In the past I wondered if it might be a good idea to buy 10 and sell them for bitcoin, but I was skeptical that I'd get enough buyers to make it worthwhile.
512 2012-10-31 14:45:06 <kjj_> the alternatives seem to be a $200+ serial port dongle or a $80 PCI card that doesn't work in 64 bit machines
513 2012-10-31 14:45:48 <kjj_> gmaxwell: I wish you had. I was thinking the same thing just now
514 2012-10-31 14:47:00 jasonbournethone has joined
515 2012-10-31 14:47:09 <jasonbournethone> New pull request: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/pull/52
516 2012-10-31 14:47:12 <epscy> what about that website
517 2012-10-31 14:47:14 <epscy> random.org
518 2012-10-31 14:47:18 <epscy> is that no good?
519 2012-10-31 14:47:37 root2 has joined
520 2012-10-31 14:47:41 <kjj_> I don't trust random numbers that I don't generate myself
521 2012-10-31 14:49:09 <gmaxwell> epscy: I can't think of any conceivable use for random.org except getting yourself robbed.
522 2012-10-31 14:49:13 <epscy> can't you measure the entropy
523 2012-10-31 14:49:26 <epscy> like how do you trust a hardware RNG
524 2012-10-31 14:49:32 <epscy> gmaxwell: getting robbed?
525 2012-10-31 14:50:38 jasonbournethone has quit (Client Quit)
526 2012-10-31 14:50:40 <gmaxwell> epscy: there have been several poorly designed bitcoin gambling sites that were just taking whatever random numbers that site gave them and generating their results... thus anyone in control of that site (or the network between you and it) could make themselves always a winner.
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529 2012-10-31 14:50:55 <epscy> oh i see
530 2012-10-31 14:51:00 <kjj_> epscy: even if the entropy is good, it isn't secret
531 2012-10-31 14:51:20 <epscy> right
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533 2012-10-31 14:51:28 <kjj_> with a hardware module, even if the entropy is poor, at least it is secret.
534 2012-10-31 14:51:34 <gmaxwell> epscy: you can't measure the entropy. If you know how the hardware works you can tell if it's probably broken, but if you don't know how it works you can't tell if it's high entopy or not.
535 2012-10-31 14:51:43 ibno has joined
536 2012-10-31 14:51:43 <epscy> is it conceivable that the hardware module could phone home
537 2012-10-31 14:51:57 <kjj_> how? telepathy?
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540 2012-10-31 14:52:07 <epscy> well i was thinking over the network
541 2012-10-31 14:52:19 <gmaxwell> kjj_: well, not for sure. The device could just be a AES stream generator. :P But it's easy enough to have one taken apart. IIRC the entropy keys had been independantly audited.
542 2012-10-31 14:52:21 <epscy> but i guess your box won't have a network connection
543 2012-10-31 14:52:39 asa1024 has joined
544 2012-10-31 14:52:56 <kjj_> epscy: sure it will, but there isn't any magic in the kernel to route USB-serial or PCI over IP
545 2012-10-31 14:53:18 <epscy> kjj_: doesn't it need a driver?
546 2012-10-31 14:53:32 <epscy> or am showing my lack of kernel knowledge
547 2012-10-31 14:53:49 EskimoBob has joined
548 2012-10-31 14:54:16 <kjj_> the USB ones show up as character devices, like a serial port or a keyboard
549 2012-10-31 14:54:39 <EskimoBob> .bitcoin size is 8G ... this shit is getting truly ridiculous. You guys are smart devs, is there any solution for this?
550 2012-10-31 14:54:42 <kjj_> the PCI ones show up as I/O ranges
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553 2012-10-31 14:59:01 <Eliel> kjj_: I don't know how good entropy source this is, but it's present in practically every computer. I mean the built in soundcard. Record sound (with or without a microphone) and the least significant bit produced randomness that passed all the tests I had to throw at the randomness.
554 2012-10-31 14:59:33 <kjj_> yeah, I have software for that, but I'm not installing Alsa to use it
555 2012-10-31 14:59:55 <Eliel> I expect it won't need full alsa to work.
556 2012-10-31 15:00:03 <kjj_> it needs Alsa
557 2012-10-31 15:00:20 <sipa> EskimoBob: it should only be 4-5 GiB, and there may be a way for running a fully validating node that doesn't the entire history, but that may take some time still
558 2012-10-31 15:00:23 <Eliel> should not be too challenging to write software to only use the parts of alsa that are needed
559 2012-10-31 15:00:32 <Eliel> and leave the rest out
560 2012-10-31 15:00:51 <sipa> EskimoBob: also, if you can't afford such resources, maybe running a full node is not for you
561 2012-10-31 15:00:52 <epscy> what is wrong with alsa?
562 2012-10-31 15:01:08 <Eliel> kjj_: you could probably condense all that into a kernel module. should be small enough
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564 2012-10-31 15:02:31 <EskimoBob> sipa: afford? lol, nothing to do with affording it. It's just absurd size and it keep growing and growing :)
565 2012-10-31 15:02:41 <Eliel> although, I'd probably xor the results with a good quality pseudo-random stream to guard against potential problems :)
566 2012-10-31 15:04:45 <sipa> EskimoBob: well running a full node implies you commit to serving history to those who need it, no way around that, as bitcoin requires people who do so.
567 2012-10-31 15:04:53 <gmaxwell> EskimoBob: It's not "absurd", it's pretty reasonable for a distributed server that supports and autonomously validates a whole currency. If it's not actually problematic for you, why are you complaining? It is problematic for some which is why we care to reduce it.
568 2012-10-31 15:06:20 <kjj_> Eliel: the motherboard's built in sound doesn't seem to be alsa compatible
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571 2012-10-31 15:14:40 <kjj_> I'm very tempted to run down to radio shack to buy a couple of pots and wire them up as a voltage divider balanced at the threshold level of a serial pin
572 2012-10-31 15:17:02 <gmaxwell> kjj_: youre very likely to just be measuring 60hz humm or whatever other very periodic RF it picks up.
573 2012-10-31 15:17:24 <kjj_> agreed
574 2012-10-31 15:18:19 <kjj_> LOL. I can use Jgarzik's rngd to feed /dev/urandom back into /dev/random. now my kernel is reporting 3000+ bits of entropy available at all times rather than <200
575 2012-10-31 15:19:56 <gmaxwell> jgarzik's rngd has a certificational flaw.
576 2012-10-31 15:21:43 <kjj_> how so?
577 2012-10-31 15:21:59 form has left ()
578 2012-10-31 15:22:16 <gmaxwell> (its random numbers are not uniform, it'll never produce random numbers that fail the internal fips 140 tests, e.g. long runs of zeros and such.
579 2012-10-31 15:22:19 <gmaxwell> )
580 2012-10-31 15:23:20 <kjj_> I thought that rngd just pulled data from a random source and fed it into the kernel random system
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583 2012-10-31 15:24:40 <kjj_> so, the alternatives to the entropykey are all absurdly expensive
584 2012-10-31 15:26:40 <gmaxwell> kjj_: no, it runs the data through the fips 140 tests and then tosses it if it fails. IIRC it doesn't stop or sound an alarm.. just throws out data. Of course, I'm sure it's not a _pratical_ problem, but if you're worrying about using a hardware RNG...
585 2012-10-31 15:27:28 <kjj_> I emailed the entropykey guys to ask if they took any non-google payments
586 2012-10-31 15:28:02 <kjj_> if they'll take a check or direct credit card, I'll buy a 10 pack and resell them on the forums
587 2012-10-31 15:28:22 <kjj_> unless I can track down a google wallet user willing to buy one for me before they reply
588 2012-10-31 15:28:34 <EskimoBob> gmaxwell: I am using the default client and I do not see way around that huge file
589 2012-10-31 15:28:52 <EskimoBob> At least I did not have to download it all at once :)
590 2012-10-31 15:29:03 <sipa> EskimoBob: if you have 8 gigabytes, you did something wrong
591 2012-10-31 15:29:20 <sipa> EskimoBob: like download blk000*.dat files without the index, or used -loadblock on files in the datadir
592 2012-10-31 15:29:22 <EskimoBob> sipa: this is the total size of the catalog
593 2012-10-31 15:29:52 <gmaxwell> (in any entropy gatherer I implemented for non-oss stuff I also used the FIPS test, but if something fails I queue it and xor it with the next block that passes... and also throw nasty errors if the test fails too often)
594 2012-10-31 15:30:05 <sipa> EskimoBob: i believe you when you say that's how much it takes on your machine, but if that is the case, something is wrong
595 2012-10-31 15:30:16 <gmaxwell> EskimoBob: yes, and thats about 2x what it should be, so as sipa saysâ you've likely done something to double it.
596 2012-10-31 15:30:42 <sipa> EskimoBob: but apart from that, for now the program needs the entire history
597 2012-10-31 15:30:49 <sipa> future versions will likely change that
598 2012-10-31 15:31:14 <EskimoBob> i hope so
599 2012-10-31 15:31:23 <kjj_> gmaxwell: that sounds like it would be a small patch to rngd
600 2012-10-31 15:31:27 rdponticelli has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
601 2012-10-31 15:31:42 <sipa> EskimoBob: you do realize that implies not everyone will be able to serve history to new nodes?
602 2012-10-31 15:31:59 Arnavion has quit (Quit: Arnavion)
603 2012-10-31 15:31:59 <sipa> which is a bad thing, but maybe necessary
604 2012-10-31 15:32:11 Arnavion has joined
605 2012-10-31 15:33:02 <EskimoBob> why not prune that crap in regular bases and forward only balances and the full load is only useful if you want to mine
606 2012-10-31 15:33:15 <kjj_> well, for starters, there are no balances
607 2012-10-31 15:33:34 <EskimoBob> i do not know the correct terminology :)
608 2012-10-31 15:33:48 <EskimoBob> but I hope you get what I mean
609 2012-10-31 15:34:23 <sipa> EskimoBob: the reference client follows a zero-trust model, which means it will validate everything it receives from other nodes, and in order to do so, it needs to *see* the entire history - there is no way around that
610 2012-10-31 15:34:28 <gmaxwell> EskimoBobecause if you do that everywhere than miners could freely inflate the coin supply... which defeats the point and purpose of bitcoin.
611 2012-10-31 15:34:51 <sipa> EskimoBob: that doesn't mean it needs to remember the entire history
612 2012-10-31 15:35:20 <gmaxwell> The security model depends on a large number of distinct partiesâ including ones without incentives like miningâ having independantly validated the history... they don't need to keep all the data, but they need to have seen it once.
613 2012-10-31 15:35:31 <sipa> but a new node on the network that doesn't trust anyone still needs to get access to this history "yeah yeah guys i know you tell me the balances are X, but i'd like you to prove it to me!"
614 2012-10-31 15:35:49 <EskimoBob> use some hash for that?
615 2012-10-31 15:36:04 <EskimoBob> not the full 100000 lines of transactions ?
616 2012-10-31 15:36:05 <sipa> where would the new node get the hash from?
617 2012-10-31 15:36:15 <sipa> remember, it does not trust anyone
618 2012-10-31 15:36:17 <EskimoBob> miners who have the full 4+ gb
619 2012-10-31 15:36:23 <gmaxwell> oh! of course. Magic! lets just use MAGIC! :P
620 2012-10-31 15:36:38 <EskimoBob> no need to get hysterical gmaxwell :)
621 2012-10-31 15:36:40 <sipa> i sure as hell hope miners aren't the only one who keep history (actually, they don't need it either)
622 2012-10-31 15:36:40 <gmaxwell> EskimoBob: then the miners just decide that they're going to award themselves 1000 BTC/block from now on.
623 2012-10-31 15:37:19 <EskimoBob> forget it. It was more like a question.
624 2012-10-31 15:37:53 Eslbaer has joined
625 2012-10-31 15:38:06 <sipa> EskimoBob: that doesn't mean there are no solutions
626 2012-10-31 15:38:14 <sipa> EskimoBob: not every node needs to run zero-trust
627 2012-10-31 15:38:20 <gmaxwell> EskimoBob: We do ave some ideas that allow some more granularity in security levels... but fundimentally there needs to be a widespread base of independant non-mining parties that have validated the whole thing or the security properties are not upheld.
628 2012-10-31 15:38:52 <sipa> in fact, bitcoin was designed so nodes can run with far lower resources if they give up a very small amount of trust
629 2012-10-31 15:39:30 Hunner_ is now known as Hunner
630 2012-10-31 15:39:44 <sipa> this is what for example MultiBit does, and Electrum (will?) do
631 2012-10-31 15:40:03 <EskimoBob> but yes, you can split that file up so noone has the full 4.5 gigs but there are N "complete" files always available in the network... or something like that. mmmm torrent mmm. OK, thanx for the "answer". I'll be waiting for the solution ;)
632 2012-10-31 15:40:09 <gmaxwell> eh, I dunno that SPV is a 'very small' reduction, esp with people accepting single confirmed payments on them. But indeed.
633 2012-10-31 15:40:40 <sipa> gmaxwell: all depends on your attack model, i guess
634 2012-10-31 15:40:49 * EskimoBob walks out the door
635 2012-10-31 15:41:12 <gmaxwell> sipa: I guess I'd agree more strongly were it not for hash proxy services.
636 2012-10-31 15:41:21 <sipa> right
637 2012-10-31 15:43:06 <amiller> there isn't yet any opportunistic mining client yet that purports to auction off your hash power to the highest bidder, is there?
638 2012-10-31 15:43:19 <sipa> amiller: gpumax?
639 2012-10-31 15:43:33 <amiller> oh yeah.
640 2012-10-31 15:43:38 <sipa> not sure if it's still running
641 2012-10-31 15:44:00 <sipa> gmaxwell: care to re-test -reindex ?
642 2012-10-31 15:44:58 <gmaxwell> gpumax is going away (or gone) but there are two (? more?) replacements already.
643 2012-10-31 15:45:26 rdponticelli has joined
644 2012-10-31 15:45:47 <gmaxwell> sipa: sure.
645 2012-10-31 15:49:25 EskimoBob has left ("WeeChat 0.3.8")
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665 2012-10-31 16:38:57 * jgarzik posts about gangman style parody, just for BlueMatt
666 2012-10-31 16:39:01 <jgarzik> *another
667 2012-10-31 16:39:10 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: rngd corrections welcome :)
668 2012-10-31 16:40:35 <kjj_> jgarzik: just how unsafe is it to use /dev/urandom as the input to rngd?
669 2012-10-31 16:41:01 <gmaxwell> s/unsafe/pointless/
670 2012-10-31 16:41:08 drizztbsd has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
671 2012-10-31 16:41:29 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: thanks
672 2012-10-31 16:41:31 <jgarzik> kjj_: <shrug> you are sending PRNG data through FIPS testing, then into a cryptographically hashed mix, then into the entropy pool
673 2012-10-31 16:41:34 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: fix the kernel. a 4kbit random pool is too small, esp now that many kinds of systems only get the 100 bit per second timer input to it. :(
674 2012-10-31 16:41:35 <kjj_> heh. it filled my entropy pool up in a hurry when I tried it. I'm sure not using it to generate keys
675 2012-10-31 16:41:39 <sipa> just take 32 bytes of data from /dev/random, use it as an AES key, and use it in CTR mode
676 2012-10-31 16:41:40 root2_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
677 2012-10-31 16:42:04 <jgarzik> or as a random seed...
678 2012-10-31 16:42:23 <gmaxwell> kjj_: if you just want to keep your pool filled and don't want to patch the kernel, I suggest "haveged".
679 2012-10-31 16:42:24 root2_ has joined
680 2012-10-31 16:43:36 freakazoid has joined
681 2012-10-31 16:43:36 * helo wonders if gmaxwell is suggesting that kjj_ needs more education
682 2012-10-31 16:43:59 <kjj_> what I really want is a hardware generator, or some other high quality source. but that's not going to happen today, so I'm just playing around
683 2012-10-31 16:45:13 <gmaxwell> I actually had some services where ssh logins were infuriatingly slow, turnes out ssh was reading /dev/urandom and it was blocking because the system was habitually out of entropy. Not wanting to totally ditch urandom (for long term key generation), or patch all these debian packages.. I threw in havaged, solved it nicely.
684 2012-10-31 16:45:48 <gmaxwell> http://mf4.xiph.org/munin/xiph.org/mf4.xiph.org/entropy.html < you can see on this system where it was turned off.
685 2012-10-31 16:46:17 <kjj_> well, I do intend to generate a whole bunch of keys in the near future, and it would be nice if that was fast too
686 2012-10-31 16:47:36 <helo> "shhhhhhhhh" ;)
687 2012-10-31 16:47:40 <kjj_> I just tossed timer_entropyd on the box, and I'm running dieharder on it, just to see. timers seem unlikely to be high quality, in my view
688 2012-10-31 16:47:53 <jgarzik> rngd is entirely for hardware RNG -> kernel entropy pool
689 2012-10-31 16:48:16 <jgarzik> however, it should be expanded to include other sources: audio, video, /proc/* entropy sources
690 2012-10-31 16:48:29 <jgarzik> there are a raft of tiny entropy gathering daemons out there
691 2012-10-31 16:49:17 <jgarzik> most modern computers have TPM, which has an RNG
692 2012-10-31 16:49:49 <kjj_> I'm very annoyed that TPM isn't available as a generic PCI-express card
693 2012-10-31 16:51:25 arij has joined
694 2012-10-31 16:51:33 <gmaxwell> What havaged does well that most daemons do not is that it does a very good job of keeping the tiny kernel pool from going empty.
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709 2012-10-31 17:34:29 <aurigae> hi there, anybody awre of a working bitcoind for poolserverj
710 2012-10-31 17:34:32 <aurigae> ??
711 2012-10-31 17:34:49 egecko has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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715 2012-10-31 17:54:16 <gmaxwell> aurigae: does it not work with the latest release?
716 2012-10-31 17:57:52 <aurigae> as i have read not
717 2012-10-31 17:58:32 <aurigae> i tried the luke-jr next eligius release as i run it with eloipool, didnt worked, then the 6.03 or some as i run wit hecoinpool , also didnt worked
718 2012-10-31 17:58:48 <aurigae> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=49be0c3bf4ecb95f4cc32acf382d6e57&topic=33144.140
719 2012-10-31 17:58:55 <aurigae> then i found this post from flowz
720 2012-10-31 17:59:09 <aurigae> no idea how to get this one, and idkk if thats the best solution
721 2012-10-31 17:59:24 <aurigae> would love to have it working with the latest rlease
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724 2012-10-31 17:59:41 Guest58100 is now known as arij
725 2012-10-31 17:59:41 <aurigae> no some ancient version xD
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738 2012-10-31 18:14:24 <sipa> gmaxwell: it actually gets interrupted during the reindex?
739 2012-10-31 18:14:56 <gmaxwell> sipa: looks like it.
740 2012-10-31 18:15:21 optimator_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
741 2012-10-31 18:17:22 <gmaxwell> ah .. interesting:
742 2012-10-31 18:17:23 <gmaxwell> 10/31/12 17:03:44 SetBestChain: new best=0000000000000f054b58 height=131235 work=18626622467183889844 tx=754307 date=06/16/11 11:19:08
743 2012-10-31 18:17:27 <gmaxwell> 10/31/12 17:03:44 ProcessBlock: ACCEPTED
744 2012-10-31 18:17:29 <gmaxwell> 10/31/12 17:03:44 SetBestChain: new best=0000000000000177ca06 height=131236 work=18630389015526577385 tx=754445 date=06/16/11 11:33:32
745 2012-10-31 18:17:33 <gmaxwell> 10/31/12 17:03:44 ProcessBlock: ACCEPTED
746 2012-10-31 18:17:35 <gmaxwell> 10/31/12 17:03:44 ProcessBlock: ORPHAN BLOCK, prev=0000000000000446bb1b
747 2012-10-31 18:17:38 <gmaxwell> 10/31/12 17:03:44 bool LoadExternalBlockFile(FILE*, CDiskBlockPos*)() : Deserialize or I/O error caught during load
748 2012-10-31 18:19:41 <gmaxwell> I don't understand what happening there, it looks like it's contiuning to reindex after that..
749 2012-10-31 18:19:45 <gmaxwell> and later it does it again:
750 2012-10-31 18:19:46 <gmaxwell> 10/31/12 17:07:27 SetBestChain: new best=00000000000009904cc5 height=181531 work=334154981753023227048 tx=3450528 date=05/25/12 13:03:48
751 2012-10-31 18:19:49 <gmaxwell> 10/31/12 17:07:27 ProcessBlock: ACCEPTED
752 2012-10-31 18:19:52 <gmaxwell> 10/31/12 17:07:27 ProcessBlock: ORPHAN BLOCK, prev=0000000000000238643f
753 2012-10-31 18:19:54 <gmaxwell> 10/31/12 17:07:27 ProcessBlock: ORPHAN BLOCK, prev=00000000000005bacafb
754 2012-10-31 18:19:57 <gmaxwell> 10/31/12 17:07:27 bool LoadExternalBlockFile(FILE*, CDiskBlockPos*)() : Deserialize or I/O error caught during load
755 2012-10-31 18:20:03 <aurigae> still looking for a valid bitcoind release for poolserverj
756 2012-10-31 18:20:04 Hunner is now known as HunnerZombie
757 2012-10-31 18:20:22 <gmaxwell> and again, and again, the a huge wad of orphans.
758 2012-10-31 18:20:44 <gmaxwell> aurigae: I don't see anything there saying that it won't work with current versions. People are talking about old and silly patches which you shouldn't need.
759 2012-10-31 18:20:59 <kjj_> shit. does anyone know an android app for QR codes that DOESN'T need network access?
760 2012-10-31 18:22:06 <[Tycho]> QR Droid ?
761 2012-10-31 18:22:19 <aurigae> i pulled the latest release from git, ill check it asap
762 2012-10-31 18:22:23 <[Tycho]> May be NeoReader.
763 2012-10-31 18:22:27 <kjj_> requires full network access, even the "private" version
764 2012-10-31 18:22:34 <gmaxwell> aurigae: uh. no. Use bitcoin 0.7.1.
765 2012-10-31 18:22:45 <gmaxwell> kjj_: what is the sound of one hand clapping?
766 2012-10-31 18:22:47 <[Tycho]> Oh, you were talking about the permissions.
767 2012-10-31 18:23:19 <kjj_> gmaxwell: Bart Simpson solved that one years and years ago
768 2012-10-31 18:23:59 <kjj_> what I want is the QR version of my trusty USB barcode scanner. give me the data in the QR code. don't spew it to the internet
769 2012-10-31 18:26:43 <sipa> gmaxwell: the error is probably due to the block not ending at the end of the file, i probably need to put an extra try block around that to quiet the error... you should see one of those for every file
770 2012-10-31 18:26:44 <aurigae> k, ill try 7.1
771 2012-10-31 18:26:50 <aurigae> latest spammed me 404s
772 2012-10-31 18:26:57 <sipa> gmaxwell: the orphans are weird...
773 2012-10-31 18:27:10 <sipa> but they don't come from the network
774 2012-10-31 18:28:22 <sipa> what is weirder is that it continues after processing those orphans
775 2012-10-31 18:28:35 <gmaxwell> What it looks like is what happens is that it continues on a bit longer hits that huge wall of orphans and finally stops.
776 2012-10-31 18:29:13 <gmaxwell> then it starts pulling from the network, at about height=188742.
777 2012-10-31 18:29:33 <gmaxwell> So I was incorrect about it getting interrupted by the network (I was thrown by those inline orphans)
778 2012-10-31 18:30:13 <sipa> but how the hell you can have orphans in your blockchain at all is very strange
779 2012-10-31 18:31:03 <gmaxwell> yea, dunno this node has had previously aborted reindexes but otherwise nothing strange.
780 2012-10-31 18:31:09 <gmaxwell> I dunno how it could continue after hitting one.
781 2012-10-31 18:31:55 <sipa> ah, i need to add something to make reindex continuing after stop/start
782 2012-10-31 18:32:34 <sipa> but an interrupted reindex would explain orphans
783 2012-10-31 18:33:05 <gmaxwell> I'm not quite clear on why it would. it's not rewriting the new blocks.. so an interupted reindex would be like a fresh start, no?
784 2012-10-31 18:33:21 <sipa> it would start downloading blocks
785 2012-10-31 18:33:31 <sipa> those would end up in the existing blocm files
786 2012-10-31 18:33:44 <sipa> after the reindexed part
787 2012-10-31 18:33:55 <sipa> thusly iverwriting perfectly good blocks
788 2012-10-31 18:34:00 <sipa> overwriting
789 2012-10-31 18:34:58 <sipa> if they're a bit off, the pre-allocation would at some part write zeroes over blocks that are not yrt downloaded or reindex
790 2012-10-31 18:35:34 <Luke-Jr> aurigae: I'm not sure PSJ is up to date with Bitcoin, though I did see its author planning to update it in the last week
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793 2012-10-31 18:35:58 <Luke-Jr> aurigae: what problems did you have with Eloipool?
794 2012-10-31 18:36:15 <sipa> restart reindex after that, and it would reindex a) the old reindexed part b) the recently diwnloaded blocks, then see a bunch of zero bytes and then c) a bunch of old data, considered orphans because the connecting blocks were overwritten with zeroes
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805 2012-10-31 18:51:53 <aurigae> hi luke
806 2012-10-31 18:52:38 <aurigae> with eloipool there is no option to get a frontend up
807 2012-10-31 18:53:10 <aurigae> with bitcoind 7.1 following output on poolj
808 2012-10-31 18:53:15 <aurigae> gD pw: 908a7r8ajjjjas7t9A68dsf87f5df76rSSSd86dc realm: jsonrpc allKeys: [127.0.0.1:8332/, localhost:8332, localhost:8332/, 127.0.0.1:8332]
809 2012-10-31 18:53:15 <aurigae> [18:39:08.215] /
810 2012-10-31 18:53:15 <aurigae> [18:39:08.215] getblocknumber response status: 404 for url: http://127.0.0.1:8332/ Resolved key: 127.0.0.1:8332/ Resolved realm: u: beerandloathing786gggD pw: 908a7r8ajjjjas7t9A68dsf87f5df76rSSSd86dc realm: jsonrpc allKeys: [127.0.0.1:8332/, localhost:8332, localhost:8332/, 127.0.0.1:8332]
811 2012-10-31 18:53:15 <aurigae> [18:39:08.325] /
812 2012-10-31 18:53:15 <aurigae> [18:39:08.326] getblocknumber response status: 404 for url: http://127.0.0.1:8332/ Resolved key: 127.0.0.1:8332/ Resolved realm: u: beerandloathing786gggD pw: 908a7r8ajjjjas7t9A68dsf87f5df76rSSSd86dc realm: jsonrpc allKeys: [127.0.0.1:8332/, localhost:8332, localhost:8332/, 127.0.0.1:8332]
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816 2012-10-31 18:55:49 <aurigae> @ luke, if eloi would work with wizkid frontend i would be ḿore than glad to use it
817 2012-10-31 18:57:50 <helo> aurigae: for future reference, #eligius is made for these kinds of questions ;)
818 2012-10-31 18:58:44 <aurigae> this is about poolserverj and a working bitcoind
819 2012-10-31 18:58:55 <aurigae> luke just asked why i dont use eloipool
820 2012-10-31 18:59:28 <aurigae> still need a wroking bitcoind for poolserverj
821 2012-10-31 19:02:51 <D34TH> aurigae, try git head
822 2012-10-31 19:04:00 <aurigae> git heat? how do i do that?, an link or command?
823 2012-10-31 19:04:29 <D34TH> git clone git://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.git
824 2012-10-31 19:04:32 <D34TH> cd bitcoin
825 2012-10-31 19:04:36 <D34TH> actually
826 2012-10-31 19:04:40 <D34TH> cd bitcoin/src
827 2012-10-31 19:04:51 <D34TH> make -f makefile.unix USE_UPNP=
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830 2012-10-31 19:08:37 <Luke-Jr> aurigae: Eloipool should work with any frontend PSJ doesâ¦
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834 2012-10-31 19:20:17 <aurigae> the suggested bitcoind also prints 404s, is there nobody operating a poolserverj pool?
835 2012-10-31 19:20:37 Azelphur has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
836 2012-10-31 19:21:21 <aurigae> @ luke-jr, i have a buddy who understands the database stuff better, he will look into it. For me ,as soo n as manually schema creation is required i have a problem
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838 2012-10-31 19:25:58 <D34TH> aurigae, what do you mean prints 404s
839 2012-10-31 19:26:11 <D34TH> what method are you calling
840 2012-10-31 19:26:28 <D34TH> and are you sure its pointed correctly
841 2012-10-31 19:28:18 <aurigae> the error quoted above, the 404s come with the latest 7. releases, 6 releases got some warning that the configuration file is maybe misconfigured. Il try some ancient version but thats not what i want
842 2012-10-31 19:28:47 <aurigae> however, i have a buddy looking into eloipool and a possible frontend solution again
843 2012-10-31 19:30:13 root2_ is now known as root2
844 2012-10-31 19:31:19 Descry has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
845 2012-10-31 19:39:31 CodesInChaos has joined
846 2012-10-31 19:40:40 <jgarzik> anybody with big endian Linux, willing to run a quick test?
847 2012-10-31 19:40:43 <jgarzik> git clone git://github.com/jgarzik/picocoin.git && cd picocoin && ./autogen.sh && ./configure && make -s all check
848 2012-10-31 19:41:01 * jgarzik is curious if all tests pass, on big endian
849 2012-10-31 19:41:02 <Luke-Jr> aurigae: I don't think anyone runs PSJ, since PSJ doesn't make good blocks even anymore
850 2012-10-31 19:41:28 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
851 2012-10-31 19:41:43 Eslbaer has joined
852 2012-10-31 19:42:23 tsche has joined
853 2012-10-31 19:43:59 agricocb has joined
854 2012-10-31 19:45:26 <D34TH> what is picocoin
855 2012-10-31 19:45:27 <D34TH> DL
856 2012-10-31 19:47:52 <D34TH> oh
857 2012-10-31 19:47:54 <D34TH> thats nice
858 2012-10-31 19:48:31 <BlueMatt> its jgarzik's second alt client in 6 months
859 2012-10-31 19:50:05 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: testing
860 2012-10-31 19:54:11 <gmaxwell> All 8 tests passed
861 2012-10-31 19:54:27 <jgarzik> woot
862 2012-10-31 19:54:30 <gmaxwell> Note: autoconf didn't mandate the jansson dep but it didn't build without it.
863 2012-10-31 19:54:48 <gmaxwell> also unsigned int salt[] = { 4185398345, 2729682459 };
864 2012-10-31 19:54:51 toffoo has joined
865 2012-10-31 19:54:52 <gmaxwell> could use a U
866 2012-10-31 19:55:00 <gmaxwell> cause thats not an unsigned constant.
867 2012-10-31 19:57:26 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: updated
868 2012-10-31 19:59:45 <sipa> ah the joy of an own project where you can push "upstream" at will :)
869 2012-10-31 20:00:08 <jgarzik> ;p
870 2012-10-31 20:00:30 dvide has joined
871 2012-10-31 20:00:30 <Luke-Jr> sipa: I prefer having others review the code :P
872 2012-10-31 20:00:41 <sipa> Luke-Jr: details
873 2012-10-31 20:00:42 <sipa> !
874 2012-10-31 20:00:45 <gmaxwell> There is a time and place for everything. :P
875 2012-10-31 20:01:19 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: missed another one on line 125.
876 2012-10-31 20:01:23 <sipa> now, let's see if -reindex continues nicely after a restart...
877 2012-10-31 20:01:31 <jgarzik> I prefer to drive at 100 m.p.h., and let brick walls and blind curves surprise me. Life is more exciting that way.
878 2012-10-31 20:02:58 <jgarzik> Of course, that only works with an open source, peer reviewed car.
879 2012-10-31 20:03:05 <jgarzik> (and route)
880 2012-10-31 20:03:11 <sipa> which nobody is driving yet
881 2012-10-31 20:03:24 <jgarzik> especially that
882 2012-10-31 20:03:45 <jgarzik> Life is great when you have no users to piss off.
883 2012-10-31 20:04:11 Maged has joined
884 2012-10-31 20:18:16 bitcoinz_ has joined
885 2012-10-31 20:19:55 bitcoinz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
886 2012-10-31 20:19:58 bitcoinz_ is now known as bitcoinz
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889 2012-10-31 20:27:47 abrkn has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
890 2012-10-31 20:28:14 bitcoinz has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
891 2012-10-31 20:29:05 bitcoinz has joined
892 2012-10-31 20:29:32 <sipa> oh damn... i was wondering how the -reindex implementation could have slowed down IBD that much
893 2012-10-31 20:29:40 <sipa> turns out my laptop was unplugged
894 2012-10-31 20:30:52 enmaku has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
895 2012-10-31 20:32:49 enmaku has joined
896 2012-10-31 20:35:09 wizkid057 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
897 2012-10-31 20:35:22 <gmaxwell> ;;bc,blocks
898 2012-10-31 20:35:23 <gribble> 201949
899 2012-10-31 20:35:34 <gmaxwell> uhh
900 2012-10-31 20:36:06 <sipa> seems legit
901 2012-10-31 20:36:24 <gmaxwell> https://blockexplorer.com/q/getblockcount < yea .. but the front page of blockexplorer.com is right
902 2012-10-31 20:36:39 <gmaxwell> pretty fishy
903 2012-10-31 20:38:01 TD has joined
904 2012-10-31 20:39:09 wizkid057 has joined
905 2012-10-31 20:39:36 <gmaxwell> uhhh
906 2012-10-31 20:39:36 <gmaxwell> 10/31/12 20:27:16 Reindexing block file blk00000.dat...
907 2012-10-31 20:39:36 <gmaxwell> 10/31/12 20:27:16 ERROR: CheckBlock() : size limits failed
908 2012-10-31 20:39:36 <gmaxwell> 10/31/12 20:27:16 ERROR: ProcessBlock() : CheckBlock FAILED
909 2012-10-31 20:39:54 <gmaxwell> yea, current patch not so good. :P
910 2012-10-31 20:40:30 <gmaxwell> hah
911 2012-10-31 20:40:30 <gmaxwell> "blocks" : -1,
912 2012-10-31 20:40:40 <gmaxwell> on the plus side, it's producing those errors _really fast_.
913 2012-10-31 20:43:01 <jgarzik> ;p
914 2012-10-31 20:43:04 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
915 2012-10-31 20:44:54 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
916 2012-10-31 20:47:22 <D34TH> wait a minute
917 2012-10-31 20:47:27 dooglus has quit (Quit: leaving)
918 2012-10-31 20:47:27 <D34TH> i have to redownload the chain?
919 2012-10-31 20:47:28 <D34TH> wat
920 2012-10-31 20:47:47 dooglus has joined
921 2012-10-31 20:47:49 dooglus has quit (Client Quit)
922 2012-10-31 20:48:12 <gmaxwell> D34TH: What are you asking about?
923 2012-10-31 20:48:22 dooglus has joined
924 2012-10-31 20:48:22 dooglus has quit (Changing host)
925 2012-10-31 20:48:22 dooglus has joined
926 2012-10-31 20:48:51 <D34TH> just upgraded to 127 from 109 (bluematt's jenkins) making me redownload chain to new format
927 2012-10-31 20:49:17 <gmaxwell> 127, 109 what are these numbers?
928 2012-10-31 20:49:41 <gmaxwell> oh git patche since figures? those are mostly useless.
929 2012-10-31 20:50:12 <D34TH> basically from oct 14 to oct 31
930 2012-10-31 20:50:20 <D34TH> need to redownload chain
931 2012-10-31 20:50:59 <gmaxwell> uh yea, that would be across the ultraprune merge. Autoupgrade hasn't been implemented yet.
932 2012-10-31 20:51:12 <D34TH> i just did loadblocks
933 2012-10-31 20:51:16 <D34TH> no biggie
934 2012-10-31 20:51:34 <D34TH> i found out by accident that you can chain -loadblock for each file and it loads them all
935 2012-10-31 20:51:41 <gmaxwell> Don't enter the hardhat area if you can't tolerate a little dust. :P https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119525.0
936 2012-10-31 20:51:41 <sipa> gmaxwell: uhh, is that with current patch?
937 2012-10-31 20:51:48 <gmaxwell> sipa: yep.
938 2012-10-31 20:52:12 <gmaxwell> sipa: it finally finished resyncing after the last try, I switched to the new patch and it instantly failed.
939 2012-10-31 20:52:27 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
940 2012-10-31 20:52:31 <sipa> doh, worked fine here
941 2012-10-31 20:52:34 <sipa> will test more
942 2012-10-31 20:55:01 afader has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
943 2012-10-31 20:56:06 <D34TH> gmaxwell, http://i.qkme.me/3rl53a.jpg
944 2012-10-31 20:56:21 dooglus has quit (Quit: leaving)
945 2012-10-31 20:56:31 dooglus has joined
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948 2012-10-31 20:58:43 <sipa> gmaxwell: was that with or without -reindex?
949 2012-10-31 20:59:08 <gmaxwell> with.
950 2012-10-31 20:59:27 <gmaxwell> chain is trashed too, pulling a clean copy without the patch now.
951 2012-10-31 20:59:27 <sipa> D34TH: you should know better than to pick up a duck in a dungeon
952 2012-10-31 20:59:46 <D34TH> sipa: it was +10 INT
953 2012-10-31 20:59:54 <D34TH> couldn't resist
954 2012-10-31 21:01:05 <sipa> gmaxwell: there may be a problem when the genesis block is not the first block in blk00000.dat... no reason why it wouldn't be, though
955 2012-10-31 21:06:21 maaku has joined
956 2012-10-31 21:15:46 <gmaxwell> I'm beginning to suspect that linus uses google+ specifically because it gives up a huge audience of idiots so that he can feel maximally smart while making fun of them.
957 2012-10-31 21:15:57 <gmaxwell> er, didn't mean to send that to this channel. :P
958 2012-10-31 21:16:15 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: um
959 2012-10-31 21:16:21 <Diablo-D3> huh.
960 2012-10-31 21:16:36 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: would it be wrong if I got a g+ account expressly for that purpose?
961 2012-10-31 21:17:48 <gmaxwell> [context being] https://plus.google.com/+LinusTorvalds/posts/ByVPmsSeSEG
962 2012-10-31 21:18:01 <Diablo-D3> let me guess, the monitor one?\
963 2012-10-31 21:18:02 <DBordello> Any way to determine when a transaction was signed?
964 2012-10-31 21:18:10 <Diablo-D3> HA HA knew it
965 2012-10-31 21:18:19 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: honestly, I like his thinking on that
966 2012-10-31 21:18:23 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: but hes got the wrong res
967 2012-10-31 21:18:43 <Diablo-D3> should be 3840xwhatever
968 2012-10-31 21:18:52 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: oh sure, I agree. but if you go into the comments there is the inevitable trickle of morons arguing with him.
969 2012-10-31 21:19:08 <Diablo-D3> yeah, I noticed that earlier
970 2012-10-31 21:19:11 <Diablo-D3> its kinda weird =/
971 2012-10-31 21:19:31 <Diablo-D3> I need to bug him to do another linux desktops suck dick rant
972 2012-10-31 21:19:46 <Diablo-D3> like, for shits and giggles, I set my laptop dpi to what it actually is (103)
973 2012-10-31 21:19:49 <Diablo-D3> fonts get bigger, sure
974 2012-10-31 21:19:58 <Diablo-D3> everything else doesnt.
975 2012-10-31 21:21:10 <Diablo-D3> I almost want to try to out-OSX OSX
976 2012-10-31 21:21:16 <Diablo-D3> and create my own desktop environment
977 2012-10-31 21:21:28 <Diablo-D3> but goddamn thats going to take a loooooot of work
978 2012-10-31 21:21:59 bitcoinz has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
979 2012-10-31 21:22:00 sacredchao has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
980 2012-10-31 21:22:19 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: oh, and btw, I think Im finally just going to create my own language
981 2012-10-31 21:22:28 <Diablo-D3> its going to be a language in which everything is done as wrong as possible
982 2012-10-31 21:23:22 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: but good news
983 2012-10-31 21:23:27 <Diablo-D3> it will run on massively parallel clusters.
984 2012-10-31 21:23:43 bitcoinz has joined
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986 2012-10-31 21:30:19 <kjj_> I thought someone already did a parallel Intercal
987 2012-10-31 21:31:58 <MC1984> anyone looked at the parallela thing for bitcoin?
988 2012-10-31 21:32:12 <MC1984> 64 risc cores or something
989 2012-10-31 21:32:13 <D34TH> i wonder if parallela could support OpenCL
990 2012-10-31 21:32:17 <kjj_> yup. there's even a whole thread on it
991 2012-10-31 21:32:25 <kjj_> doesn't look useful for mining
992 2012-10-31 21:32:29 <MC1984> link?
993 2012-10-31 21:32:42 <D34TH> kjj_ OpenCL can do more things than mine
994 2012-10-31 21:33:34 <kjj_> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=115021.0;all
995 2012-10-31 21:33:49 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
996 2012-10-31 21:34:48 <kjj_> it can probably do ECDSA
997 2012-10-31 21:35:08 optimator_ has joined
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1000 2012-10-31 21:40:07 PiZZaMaN2K is now known as PiZZaMaN2K|away
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1002 2012-10-31 21:41:36 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1003 2012-10-31 21:50:53 * helo can do ECDSA too
1004 2012-10-31 21:56:59 <MC1984> thx
1005 2012-10-31 21:57:28 Z0rZ0rZ0r has quit (Quit: Wheeeee)
1006 2012-10-31 21:59:19 <MC1984> didnt it turn out that litecoin was a scam seeing as the way they implemented scrypt meant that you can GPU mine it after all and someone had probably been doing so in secret
1007 2012-10-31 21:59:58 <TD> woo
1008 2012-10-31 22:00:03 <TD> google hard down
1009 2012-10-31 22:00:04 <helo> i think it's still maintaining an exchange value, so it's ~alive
1010 2012-10-31 22:00:20 <[Tycho]> at least gmail is up
1011 2012-10-31 22:00:23 <kjj_> I'm not sure that rises to the level of scam
1012 2012-10-31 22:00:37 <helo> gmail is down for everyone i know
1013 2012-10-31 22:00:50 <helo> i shouldn't say that... "down for everyone who i've asked"
1014 2012-10-31 22:00:52 <kjj_> It still requires a lot more memory than SHA256 does, but not as much as it *could*
1015 2012-10-31 22:00:59 <kjj_> or even should
1016 2012-10-31 22:01:21 <[Tycho]> Just tried browsing some folders on gmail, seems normal.
1017 2012-10-31 22:01:24 <MC1984> thats what i mean
1018 2012-10-31 22:01:58 <MC1984> it was fudged so that someone could gpu mine it in secret and no one found out for over a year right
1019 2012-10-31 22:02:24 <[Tycho]> Isn't LTC already GPU-mined ?
1020 2012-10-31 22:02:29 <TD> it went down briefly. seems back now
1021 2012-10-31 22:02:32 <helo> yeah
1022 2012-10-31 22:02:32 <MC1984> so much for open source
1023 2012-10-31 22:02:49 <forsetifox_> Heh.
1024 2012-10-31 22:02:56 <kjj_> I don't think it was a secret. I just don't think that anyone that understood scrypt parameters cared enough to look at the source
1025 2012-10-31 22:03:20 <helo> MC1984: nobody knows that someone was gpu mining it during that time
1026 2012-10-31 22:03:33 <helo> well, it's at least not widely known
1027 2012-10-31 22:03:49 <MC1984> i thought it turned out someone probably was?
1028 2012-10-31 22:04:00 <kjj_> and it isn't like GPUs don't have access to memory. cranking it up would just reduce the number of threads possible on a given card
1029 2012-10-31 22:04:29 <forsetifox_> So what. If someone has the knowledge of code/ bitcoins/ electronics go for it. Who cares if one person mined it faster than the others.
1030 2012-10-31 22:04:52 <MC1984> its a shame litecoin might have had some legs
1031 2012-10-31 22:04:56 <kjj_> SHA runs entirely in registers and cache. the hit going to memory is enormous, even for small-ish amounts of memory
1032 2012-10-31 22:05:16 <MC1984> might have even resisted ASIC given large enough memory requirements
1033 2012-10-31 22:06:05 <helo> if we were still on CPU mining, botnets would be a bigger threat, i think
1034 2012-10-31 22:06:43 <kjj_> helo: bingo.
1035 2012-10-31 22:06:44 <helo> 10% of hashrate is due to one CPU-mining botnet currently
1036 2012-10-31 22:07:04 <helo> so that could be easily >50% if we hadn't moved up an order of magnitude
1037 2012-10-31 22:08:18 <helo> kind of a terrifyingly narrow successful path bitcoin seems to be treading
1038 2012-10-31 22:08:34 <MC1984> indeed
1039 2012-10-31 22:08:38 ovidiuso1t has joined
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1041 2012-10-31 22:09:05 <MC1984> if it fails i highly doubt it could ever be restarted
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1044 2012-10-31 22:09:54 <TD> helo: how do you know that?
1045 2012-10-31 22:11:32 <helo> TD: the 10% figure from http://threatpost.com/en_us/blogs/zeroaccess-botnet-cashing-click-fraud-and-bitcoin-mining-103012
1046 2012-10-31 22:11:46 TD_ has joined
1047 2012-10-31 22:12:07 <helo> "Sophos estimated that ZeroAccess could be earning as much as $2.7 million annually via Bitcoin mining."
1048 2012-10-31 22:12:26 <helo> at the current exchange rate, that's ~10%
1049 2012-10-31 22:12:40 <TD_> ah
1050 2012-10-31 22:12:43 <TD_> but how did they estimate that
1051 2012-10-31 22:12:53 Cory has joined
1052 2012-10-31 22:12:59 <helo> i got 2.4Mhash/s per node
1053 2012-10-31 22:13:14 <helo> based on half of the 2,000,000 infected nodes they say mine
1054 2012-10-31 22:13:24 <helo> seems pretty reasonable for cpu mining
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1067 2012-10-31 22:29:45 <sipa> gmaxwell: does reindex work on a cleanly downloaded chain?
1068 2012-10-31 22:30:33 <ibno> where can I find a list over which transaction types are considered standard?
1069 2012-10-31 22:30:53 bd_ has joined
1070 2012-10-31 22:31:03 <gmaxwell> sipa: going to try that next.
1071 2012-10-31 22:44:08 <jgarzik> ibno: source code
1072 2012-10-31 22:44:19 cryptorific has joined
1073 2012-10-31 22:44:50 <jgarzik> ibno: Solver()'s mTemplates
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1076 2012-10-31 22:45:37 <ibno> jgarzik: thanks, I found what I was looking for
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