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47 2012-11-09 02:57:34 <owowo> <3
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49 2012-11-09 03:01:22 <gmaxwell> Why can't more people be like that?
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52 2012-11-09 03:18:35 <Luke-Jr> lol
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61 2012-11-09 03:41:25 <BlueMatt> nanotube: nice
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64 2012-11-09 03:46:55 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, extremely strange?
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67 2012-11-09 03:57:20 <astor> has anybody tried to fix lock ordering issues in the bitcoin software?
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69 2012-11-09 03:58:10 <BlueMatt> ...
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71 2012-11-09 03:58:22 <BlueMatt> uhh...yea, like 1.5 years ago?
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75 2012-11-09 04:00:59 <Luke-Jr> lol
76 2012-11-09 04:00:59 <astor> no I mean, I went through the software roughly a year ago and annotated all fields with locking info. I remember finding a few issues, but I've lost my repository. One of my main concerns at the time was that the code allowed for recursive locking, which is a pretty dangerous practice.
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78 2012-11-09 04:02:06 <BlueMatt> there were a few issues nearly 2 years ago but they are long since fixed
79 2012-11-09 04:02:34 <BlueMatt> using recursive locking...yea, the code flow isnt very obvious, but once you study it some its not absolutely godawful, its just kinda bad...
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81 2012-11-09 04:12:35 <astor> actually I found my repo
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83 2012-11-09 04:14:04 <astor> it's a 1500 lines patch that makes it mostly -Wthread-safety safe with clang.
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105 2012-11-09 04:38:49 <Luke-Jr> astor: so where's the pullreq?
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108 2012-11-09 04:57:43 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: well that was fun
109 2012-11-09 04:58:06 <Diablo-D3> I spent like two hours seeing if I could get zero latency screen casting
110 2012-11-09 04:58:48 <Diablo-D3> got pretty close
111 2012-11-09 04:58:58 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: use wayland.
112 2012-11-09 04:59:21 <Diablo-D3> ffmpeg -fflags nobuffer -flags:v low_delay -f x11grab -r 60 -s 1920x1200 -i :0.0 -vcodec libx264 -profile:v high444 -preset ultrafast -tune zerolatency,fastdecode,stillimage -qp 18 -f mpegts -g 1 tcp://192.168.2.2:8888?listen
113 2012-11-09 04:59:33 <gmaxwell> x11grab is always lossy.
114 2012-11-09 04:59:43 <Diablo-D3> then on another box, ffplay -fflags nobuffer -i http://192.168.2.2:8888
115 2012-11-09 04:59:50 <Diablo-D3> its about a quarter of a second behind for me
116 2012-11-09 05:00:22 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: well, I doubt theres a faster method
117 2012-11-09 05:00:32 <Diablo-D3> and dont say wayland, that doesnt work on fglrx
118 2012-11-09 05:01:04 <gmaxwell> I feel bad for you son, I've got 99 problems but a desktop with non-intel video aint one.
119 2012-11-09 05:01:10 <Luke-Jr> :D
120 2012-11-09 05:01:12 <Diablo-D3> >intel
121 2012-11-09 05:01:14 <Diablo-D3> >bitcoin
122 2012-11-09 05:01:15 <Diablo-D3> quat
123 2012-11-09 05:01:35 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: wait, why is x11grab lossy?
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125 2012-11-09 05:02:19 <gmaxwell> Because it misses frames, and has tearing because the grab isn't atomic.
126 2012-11-09 05:02:29 <Diablo-D3> oh, that
127 2012-11-09 05:02:32 <gmaxwell> (it's also slow because god knows why)
128 2012-11-09 05:02:45 <Diablo-D3> its slow because grabbing out of the X framebuffer is fucking shit
129 2012-11-09 05:02:52 <Diablo-D3> its also why x11vnc and whatever else is slow
130 2012-11-09 05:03:17 <gjs278> x11vnc is great
131 2012-11-09 05:03:34 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: yeah, but its no thin client replacement
132 2012-11-09 05:03:51 <gjs278> I truly believe my high school tried to use it as one
133 2012-11-09 05:04:13 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: no, that was NT remote thin client
134 2012-11-09 05:04:15 <gmaxwell> gjs278: its a neat hack... but it's slow.
135 2012-11-09 05:04:28 <Diablo-D3> its rdp, which is very similar to vnc, and still slow as fuck
136 2012-11-09 05:04:36 <gmaxwell> I used x11 vnc to 'hack' a friend of mine who bragged his system was unhackable.
137 2012-11-09 05:04:47 <gjs278> bro run this program. k now portforward.
138 2012-11-09 05:04:48 <Luke-Jr> lol
139 2012-11-09 05:04:54 <gmaxwell> no way man.
140 2012-11-09 05:04:55 <Diablo-D3> but yeah, like
141 2012-11-09 05:04:58 <Diablo-D3> seen redhat spice?
142 2012-11-09 05:05:04 <Diablo-D3> it uses mjpeg for motion encoding
143 2012-11-09 05:05:19 <Diablo-D3> my method is lower latency than mjpeg <3
144 2012-11-09 05:05:49 <gmaxwell> I had him SSH into a system of mine to look at something as a pretext. Of course, he had X11 forwarding enabled. I started up x11vnc as him on my system, connected.. then waited until he got up and grabbed a root terminal he left up and added my ssh key.
145 2012-11-09 05:08:43 <gmaxwell> (there are lots of fun things you can do with ssh forwarding, x11vnc is just the simplest)
146 2012-11-09 05:09:44 <Arnavion> Do tell
147 2012-11-09 05:10:46 <gmaxwell> Arnavion: I meant ssh x11 forwarding... if you can connect to someone's xserver you can sniff their keyboard and such.
148 2012-11-09 05:11:04 enmaku has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
149 2012-11-09 05:11:32 <Diablo-D3> wait
150 2012-11-09 05:11:36 <Diablo-D3> how did you do that without his cookies?
151 2012-11-09 05:12:35 <gmaxwell> ssh x11 forwarding. It setups up the auth on the system you log into (where I am root)
152 2012-11-09 05:12:48 <gmaxwell> otherwise you couldn't run X clients yourself.
153 2012-11-09 05:13:19 <Diablo-D3> Im aware of how ssh x11 forwarding works, but it only works for the user running X
154 2012-11-09 05:13:30 <Diablo-D3> it cant hijack other people's ssh sessions
155 2012-11-09 05:13:35 * Luke-Jr facepalms
156 2012-11-09 05:13:49 <Luke-Jr> obviously gmaxwell tricked him into SSHing to gmaxwell's box, with X11 forwarding enabled
157 2012-11-09 05:13:58 <Luke-Jr> and from there hijacked the connection
158 2012-11-09 05:14:01 <gmaxwell> Right.
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160 2012-11-09 05:14:18 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: does the sniffing crap work even with -X ?
161 2012-11-09 05:14:21 <Luke-Jr> ie, not -Y
162 2012-11-09 05:14:30 <Diablo-D3> you should have to have been logged in as him
163 2012-11-09 05:14:34 <Luke-Jr> â¦
164 2012-11-09 05:14:39 <Luke-Jr> Diablo-D3: su victim
165 2012-11-09 05:15:10 <gmaxwell> "I started up x11vnc as him on my system"
166 2012-11-09 05:15:37 <Diablo-D3> ...
167 2012-11-09 05:15:39 <Diablo-D3> well isnt that ugly.
168 2012-11-09 05:15:58 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I don't think ~any thing bothers using the secure grab stuff to get passwords. Does it?
169 2012-11-09 05:16:23 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: this is why you should _never_ x11 forward to a host you don't fully trust.
170 2012-11-09 05:16:53 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I'd hope ssh/gpg agent do!
171 2012-11-09 05:17:09 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: yeah, I already have ForwardX11 no in my .ssh/config
172 2012-11-09 05:17:25 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I'd also have expected -X to deny crap like "grab the framebuffer" in the first place :/
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175 2012-11-09 05:19:18 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I imagine a lot of things wouldn't work.
176 2012-11-09 05:20:13 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: not that they need it, but it's like with SE Linuxâ a lot of stuff makes crazy irrelevant syscalls just because they can... try to selinux lock stuff down and you either have to permit a lot of crazy or fix a lot of bugs.
177 2012-11-09 05:21:01 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, ForwardX11 defaults to no
178 2012-11-09 05:21:11 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: it does now. It did not use to.
179 2012-11-09 05:21:18 <phantomcircuit> that's hilarious
180 2012-11-09 05:21:26 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: sigh, I wonder when someone will make an OS with a reasonable security model :P
181 2012-11-09 05:22:00 <Luke-Jr> though current CPU designs, and C specs, etc might make that non-trivial
182 2012-11-09 05:22:20 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, there's one where things are isolated using hardware virtualization
183 2012-11-09 05:22:24 <phantomcircuit> forget it's name
184 2012-11-09 05:22:40 <Luke-Jr> (by reasonable, I'm thinking of something like MOO where code executes with its programmer's permissions by default and needs to elevate to do anything the programmer couldn't do himself)
185 2012-11-09 05:23:58 <Luke-Jr> the problem with CPUs/C compatibility being that library functions need to execute with different permissions than the code calling it; and who knows how a library intends to use a pointer :/
186 2012-11-09 05:24:01 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: there are a couple neat papers on cpu architectures that have additional tags for all memory words, so you can do things like valgrind everything with no performance hit.
187 2012-11-09 05:27:08 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: hmm, more like the CPUs have the performance hit for everything by default? :0
188 2012-11-09 05:27:10 <Luke-Jr> ;)*
189 2012-11-09 05:27:29 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: DO WANT
190 2012-11-09 05:29:30 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: certantly less than having to emulate+jit everything in software! I think for a lot of applications it would be worth having a half speed chip. Esp since it could do even fancier things like multi-level taint tracking.
191 2012-11-09 05:30:07 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: hmm, but that still didn't sound like it'd solve the library problem
192 2012-11-09 05:31:19 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: well, it would allow enforcement. E.g. app data and library data would have different tags. And you trap if you violate the tags... then some handler wakes up and does something smart.
193 2012-11-09 05:32:20 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: hmm, I was imagining implementing it by running each code-user in a separate process and doing some kind of internal RPC for cross-user calls
194 2012-11-09 05:33:56 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
195 2012-11-09 05:34:10 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: ever seen selinux sanbox thats part of fedora/rhel?
196 2012-11-09 05:34:25 <phantomcircuit> lol
197 2012-11-09 05:34:36 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, runs in permissive mode iirc
198 2012-11-09 05:34:43 <phantomcircuit> blacklist instead of whitelist
199 2012-11-09 05:35:02 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: no
200 2012-11-09 05:35:11 <gmaxwell> It's a wrapper 'sandbox ./scarry-program' and basically scarry-program runs as a one-shot sandbox user that can only do IO outside of a chroot like jail.
201 2012-11-09 05:35:38 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: sure, but that's the entire program âº
202 2012-11-09 05:35:42 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: yes, but it does run the program as another user at least, and its substantilly (though indeed, not completely) clamped down.
203 2012-11-09 05:36:03 <phantomcircuit> i tried running gentoo hardened w/ selinux in strict mode
204 2012-11-09 05:36:08 <phantomcircuit> couldn't even login
205 2012-11-09 05:36:11 <phantomcircuit> :|
206 2012-11-09 05:39:12 <Diablo-D3> brb
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209 2012-11-09 05:45:41 * jgarzik wonders if sandbox could be combined with cgroups
210 2012-11-09 05:46:03 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, selinux has resource controls also
211 2012-11-09 05:46:12 <phantomcircuit> i suspect you could modify a role's permissions or something
212 2012-11-09 05:46:37 <jgarzik> a true sandbox limits cpu, memory, disk usage, ...
213 2012-11-09 05:46:50 <jgarzik> I know Google uses cgroups heavily, to do that for their processes
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215 2012-11-09 05:50:43 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, i use cgroups a lot for momentovps
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221 2012-11-09 06:03:41 <Joric> mourning! does anyone know how to hide a part of gihub comment under a spoiler? ie markdown for expandable/collapsible content
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223 2012-11-09 06:05:11 <astor> I've added my patch at https://github.com/alexanderkjeldaas/bitcoin There are pages and pages of locking warnings still with clang, so I'm not sure if a pull request is the right thing to do. Please take a look.
224 2012-11-09 06:22:34 <jgarzik> -c --cgroups
225 2012-11-09 06:22:34 <jgarzik> Use cgroups to control this copy of seunshare. Specify parameâ
226 2012-11-09 06:22:34 <jgarzik> ters in /etc/sysconfig/sandbox. Max memory usage and cpu usage
227 2012-11-09 06:22:34 <jgarzik> are to be specified in percent. You can specify which CPUs to
228 2012-11-09 06:22:34 <jgarzik> use by numbering them 0,1,2... etc.
229 2012-11-09 06:22:38 <jgarzik> nice
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270 2012-11-09 08:19:25 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
271 2012-11-09 08:19:25 <gribble> 207147
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277 2012-11-09 08:38:32 <abrkn> hmm i cant get my testnet in a box up
278 2012-11-09 08:38:47 <abrkn> bt qt says 1 connection but "wallet out of sync"
279 2012-11-09 08:38:50 <abrkn> has been running for ages
280 2012-11-09 08:40:21 <gmaxwell> abrkn: what version of bitcoin?
281 2012-11-09 08:40:57 <abrkn> my client is 1.7.0
282 2012-11-09 08:41:09 <abrkn> err
283 2012-11-09 08:41:12 <abrkn> 0.7.0 ofc
284 2012-11-09 08:42:12 <abrkn> https://gist.github.com/4044447
285 2012-11-09 08:43:21 <abrkn> i pretty much just extracted the testnet-in-a-box to some dir and spun a daemon and a client
286 2012-11-09 08:44:23 <sipa> gmaxwell: found the reason for my crashing mining node
287 2012-11-09 08:44:47 <sipa> there's an assert in CreateNewBlock that is only active undef (fDebug) ...
288 2012-11-09 08:44:54 <sipa> *under
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290 2012-11-09 08:49:33 <abrkn> is there a different one i can use? http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/testnet-in-a-box/
291 2012-11-09 08:50:35 <gmaxwell> abrkn: testnet in a box is a special two node testnet setup. Normal testnet is just part of the regular bitcoin client. (which is at 0.7.1)
292 2012-11-09 08:50:57 <sipa> hmmm, is testnet in a box updated for testnet3?
293 2012-11-09 08:50:57 <abrkn> gmaxwell: right, i'd rather have the testnet-in-a-box
294 2012-11-09 08:51:04 <gmaxwell> abrkn: for testnet in a box just having one connection is expected.
295 2012-11-09 08:51:21 <abrkn> gmaxwell: right, but it says out of sync and nothing gets generated
296 2012-11-09 08:51:23 <gmaxwell> sipa: dunno, gavin has a tniab set of files but I dunno whats on that page.
297 2012-11-09 08:51:46 <gmaxwell> sipa: ah, see the url, there is a testnet3 archive there.
298 2012-11-09 08:51:55 <gmaxwell> abrkn: you used the testnet3 archive, right?
299 2012-11-09 08:53:29 <abrkn> now i'm unsure, downloaded a few days ago. trying a clean run
300 2012-11-09 08:53:38 <sipa> still strange how transactions can enter the mempool without their parents being in there
301 2012-11-09 08:54:06 <sipa> i know it is possible during reorgs
302 2012-11-09 08:54:21 <sipa> but there is nothing special in my debug.log
303 2012-11-09 08:58:45 <abrkn> ok, testnet3 up and running thanks
304 2012-11-09 08:59:39 <sipa> :o
305 2012-11-09 09:00:06 <sipa> CTxMempool::remove doesn't remove dependent transactions
306 2012-11-09 09:00:55 <sipa> hmm, it shouldn't, actually
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320 2012-11-09 10:02:00 <thermoman> hi there. we have issued a transaction via 0.7.1 client but it didn't make it into the bitcoin network, confirmations=0. any idea? http://pastebin.com/aFU8MKN8
321 2012-11-09 10:02:59 <edcba> fee=0 ?
322 2012-11-09 10:03:45 <edcba> time 12345 ??
323 2012-11-09 10:03:51 <edcba> you replaced it ?
324 2012-11-09 10:11:21 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
325 2012-11-09 10:20:24 <sturles> thermoman: The transaction you pasted isn't valid. Sure you didn't change anything?
326 2012-11-09 10:21:35 <thermoman> sturles: it's redacted
327 2012-11-09 10:21:46 slush1 has joined
328 2012-11-09 10:21:49 <thermoman> edcba: yes
329 2012-11-09 10:22:16 <thermoman> the real values were replaced
330 2012-11-09 10:22:28 <sturles> In that case it is no use pasting it. Check your debug.log.
331 2012-11-09 10:22:45 <sipa> thermoman: how long has the node been running since creating the tx?\
332 2012-11-09 10:22:55 <thermoman> sipa: days
333 2012-11-09 10:23:18 <thermoman> sipa: 8 days or so
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337 2012-11-09 10:33:38 <abrkn> why do i keep getting banned from bitcoin-otc?
338 2012-11-09 10:33:42 <abrkn> ;;ident abrkn
339 2012-11-09 10:33:43 <gribble> Nick 'abrkn', with hostmask 'abrkn!~pialur@195.159.164.228', is not identified.
340 2012-11-09 10:35:15 <abrkn> ;;ident abrkn
341 2012-11-09 10:35:15 <gribble> Nick 'abrkn', with hostmask 'abrkn!~pialur@195.159.164.228', is identified as user abrkn, with GPG key id C73739F294E8EB0E, key fingerprint 9184ABC7B25EDAEB4D1C6737C73739F294E8EB0E, and bitcoin address 1abrknajSFpnz7MHjLkVnuvCbwd96wSYt
342 2012-11-09 10:37:17 <thermoman> are information in debug log regarding CTransaction sensitive?
343 2012-11-09 10:38:01 <sipa> depends what you call sensitive
344 2012-11-09 10:38:07 <sipa> it won't reveal private keys
345 2012-11-09 10:39:28 <thermoman> what about "WalletUpdateSpent found spent coin" and the long string at the end?
346 2012-11-09 10:43:40 <thermoman> ok, its a transaction
347 2012-11-09 10:43:40 <sipa> that's the transaction id
348 2012-11-09 10:44:06 <sipa> debug.log may reveal privacy-sensitive information, but will never allow stealing of coins
349 2012-11-09 10:44:21 <thermoman> that's the problem
350 2012-11-09 10:44:58 <thermoman> i'm looking at a transaction on blockexplorer
351 2012-11-09 10:45:14 <thermoman> it says input: amount X
352 2012-11-09 10:45:19 <thermoman> 2x output
353 2012-11-09 10:45:28 <thermoman> one of these outputs has "Not yet redeemed"
354 2012-11-09 10:49:32 <thermoman> i'll talk to your developer
355 2012-11-09 10:49:47 <thermoman> sipa: can i query you?
356 2012-11-09 10:53:03 <sipa> yes
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362 2012-11-09 11:06:43 <sipa> thermoman: do you know the transaction's inputs?
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372 2012-11-09 12:01:49 drizztbsd has joined
373 2012-11-09 12:08:53 <drizztbsd> hi, I have a little question
374 2012-11-09 12:09:08 <drizztbsd> should I rename archlinux bitcoin-daemon package to bitcoind?
375 2012-11-09 12:09:13 <drizztbsd> for coherency?
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379 2012-11-09 12:29:39 <Luke-Jr> drizztbsd: probably
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381 2012-11-09 12:29:56 <Luke-Jr> but it likely depends more on ArchLinux's package naming policies
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430 2012-11-09 16:06:14 <MC1984> crqzy thought
431 2012-11-09 16:06:57 <MC1984> what if standarisation on the OPUS audio codec is a good way to get a national surveillance mechanism for voice going
432 2012-11-09 16:07:00 <MC1984> easy DPI
433 2012-11-09 16:08:06 <MC1984> before i am assuced of tinfoil hats, i live in a country where the government has stated it wants access to communications streams from xbox and other online gaming for 'anti-terrorism'
434 2012-11-09 16:08:47 <MC1984> and has mentioned quote "black boxes" multiple times to that effect
435 2012-11-09 16:12:21 <abrkn> they will control our thoughts through xbox
436 2012-11-09 16:12:28 <abrkn> or maybe they already are
437 2012-11-09 16:17:12 <rdponticelli> They control our thoughts through massive media
438 2012-11-09 16:17:48 <MC1984> no guys really this realates to an actual stated desire by a major western polity
439 2012-11-09 16:18:12 <abrkn> i only read hacker news, which is written 100% by arrogant, 14-year-old python programmers
440 2012-11-09 16:18:34 <abrkn> shit in shit out
441 2012-11-09 16:22:51 <rdponticelli> Whatever anybody can read is more or less, directly or indirectly, heavily exposed to mass media at some stage
442 2012-11-09 16:23:42 <rdponticelli> It's like those "investments" we had, everything in the end was exposed to the big black hole
443 2012-11-09 16:23:49 <rdponticelli> /ot
444 2012-11-09 16:28:23 <rg> lol
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451 2012-11-09 17:02:23 <gmaxwell> MC1984: totally OT for #bitcoin-dev
452 2012-11-09 17:04:35 <copumpkin> on-topic?
453 2012-11-09 17:04:38 * copumpkin runs
454 2012-11-09 17:04:47 <sipa> Open Transactions>
455 2012-11-09 17:04:58 * gmaxwell stabs all
456 2012-11-09 17:05:00 <sipa> ").fixTypo();
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465 2012-11-09 17:26:14 <slush1> jgarzik: You were asking about how to do atomic coin swapping. Did you already find the solution?
466 2012-11-09 17:26:37 <slush1> Does it need something in script language,which is not enabled yet?
467 2012-11-09 17:27:31 <helo> swapping between altcoins?
468 2012-11-09 17:27:48 <slush1> helo: no,swapping of some particular coins of bitcoin blockchain, in single transaction
469 2012-11-09 17:28:05 <helo> for colored coin?
470 2012-11-09 17:28:08 <slush1> yes
471 2012-11-09 17:29:51 <sipa> you just need a mapping rule
472 2012-11-09 17:30:18 <sipa> like colors are inherited by equally-numbered outputs as inputs
473 2012-11-09 17:30:19 daybyter has joined
474 2012-11-09 17:32:13 <slush1> sipa: I know. But how to create one transaction which must be signed by both parties?
475 2012-11-09 17:32:14 <helo> while that may increase fees and help the hashrate, i fear colored coin could devalue bitcoin by making mandatory fees too high for simple currency transactions to be feasible
476 2012-11-09 17:33:10 <Eliel> helo: I don't understand how they could do anything but increase bitcoin's value
477 2012-11-09 17:33:31 <Eliel> why would they increase mandatory fees too high?
478 2012-11-09 17:33:43 <slush1> Eliel: it don't need to increate bitcoin value significantly. You can use just satoshis
479 2012-11-09 17:33:45 <helo> it could fill blocks up
480 2012-11-09 17:34:07 <helo> which will put upward pressure on fees
481 2012-11-09 17:34:12 <slush1> I agree that it can affect tx fees. but this is free market. If people will see colored coins useful, they'll do it
482 2012-11-09 17:34:46 JZavala has joined
483 2012-11-09 17:35:43 <Eliel> helo: so, basically, it could do the same thing as regular increasing usage.
484 2012-11-09 17:37:43 <helo> i think it may differ a little from simple increasing usage
485 2012-11-09 17:38:44 <helo> or rather, the potential for increased usage from colored bitcoin is a lot higher than increased usage as a currency
486 2012-11-09 17:39:03 <jgarzik> slush: yes, found and posted the solution
487 2012-11-09 17:39:24 <helo> given that one colored satoshi could be valued arbitrarily high
488 2012-11-09 17:39:28 <jgarzik> slush: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=112007.msg1212356#msg1212356
489 2012-11-09 17:40:16 <helo> so the issue rate of useful units with colored bitcoin is 5,000,000,000 every 10 minutes
490 2012-11-09 17:41:54 <helo> i haven't thought about the demand for currency bitcoin that would be created by colored bitcoin, though... people would demand bitcoin to pay the fees on their colored coin transfers
491 2012-11-09 17:42:18 <Eliel> precisely
492 2012-11-09 17:43:10 <jgarzik> helo: Not just fees... pay bitcoins for colored-coin property
493 2012-11-09 17:43:30 <helo> yeah, the atomic swap would make that pretty compelling...
494 2012-11-09 17:44:57 <helo> as in: holy crap pervasive wired asset zero trust trade
495 2012-11-09 17:45:42 <helo> making all wired property just as non-reversible as bitcoin
496 2012-11-09 17:46:35 <helo> so now my opinion has changed significantly... colored coin w/ atomic swapping could be the end-all killer app for bitcoin
497 2012-11-09 17:47:49 <jgarzik> helo: OTOH, we don't want to bloat the main chain with smart-property tokens, if this becomes super-popular ;p
498 2012-11-09 17:48:05 <jgarzik> helo: essentially turns the block chain into a property registry
499 2012-11-09 17:50:24 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
500 2012-11-09 17:50:40 <helo> it would really make a double spending not-quite-so-scary
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504 2012-11-09 17:51:34 <aurigae1> What is the correct algorithm to calculate worker & pool hashrate? THX
505 2012-11-09 17:51:55 <helo> aurigae1: if you don't get an answer here, try #bitcoin-mining
506 2012-11-09 17:52:02 <aurigae1> thx
507 2012-11-09 17:55:00 <helo> jgarzik: i'm not sure if that would be bad... the minimum value that someone would want to exchange using bitcoin would be higher (given they don't want to pay more than some % of the value in fees), excluding it from use for everyday transactions
508 2012-11-09 17:55:17 <helo> but we already know bitcoin won't scale to allow its use in everyday transactions
509 2012-11-09 17:57:08 <maaku> helo: use #opentransactions; it does the job of managing assets better than colored coins, and doesn't bloat the blockchain
510 2012-11-09 17:57:36 <maaku> keep the block chain for bitcoin (currency) only
511 2012-11-09 17:57:56 <helo> i don't think we get to choose how bitcoin is used :/
512 2012-11-09 17:59:09 <helo> avoiding the addition of coin tracking and atomic swapping to the reference client would go a long way, though
513 2012-11-09 17:59:29 <maaku> sure we do, individually of course
514 2012-11-09 17:59:41 <maaku> don't make the next satoshi-dice bit-spam service
515 2012-11-09 18:00:53 <etotheipi_> request for devs: could someone update the wiki page for BIP 21 to make all the bitcoin: URI examples clickable? It's exactly what I need to test updates to my URL handling, but for some reason that page doesn't have any clickable examples (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0021)
516 2012-11-09 18:01:37 <slush1> jgarzik: thanks!
517 2012-11-09 18:01:48 Diapolo has joined
518 2012-11-09 18:01:50 <helo> as far as a currency is what people use for relatively low-valued everyday transactions, and that bitcoin can't scale to handle the global volume of such transactions, it kind of makes sense to not worry about applications that create demand for bitcoin-the-currency
519 2012-11-09 18:02:40 <helo> what i was trying to say there was that bitcoin isn't really well suited as an 'everyday currency' due to scalability
520 2012-11-09 18:03:46 <maaku> bitcoin is an excellent clearing-house for off-the-chain services
521 2012-11-09 18:04:12 <maaku> however it's only designed to be as such for one currency/commodity
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523 2012-11-09 18:04:53 <maaku> colored coins has the potential to push us against scalability limits, even if only used for clearing-house operations on new assets
524 2012-11-09 18:05:13 <helo> bitcoin's biggest problem is arguably that it solves the zero-trust problem in only one direction, so trust is still very much required
525 2012-11-09 18:05:26 <maaku> open-transactions solves the asset issuance and manipulation problem off-chain, so why use the block chain?
526 2012-11-09 18:05:26 <helo> colored bitcoin would allow it to solve the zero-trust problem bidirectionally
527 2012-11-09 18:05:49 <helo> (with atomic swapping)
528 2012-11-09 18:06:03 <helo> raising transaction fees doesn't make it useless as a currency
529 2012-11-09 18:06:18 <helo> it just raises the minimum value that it is useful for transferring
530 2012-11-09 18:07:16 <gmaxwell> maaku: because opentransactions does notâ rather it solves it far more weakly.
531 2012-11-09 18:07:58 <helo> we want bitcoin to be used widely, and have high fees to keep the hashrate up
532 2012-11-09 18:08:16 <gmaxwell> or to be more specific, it solves _nothing_ because its a toolkit not a solution. But the things you could build out of it in theory have a much weaker non-inflation property than bitcoin does.
533 2012-11-09 18:08:17 <sipa> maaku: OT is centralized but anonymous; bitcoin is decentralized but pseudonymous
534 2012-11-09 18:08:19 <helo> atomic colored bitcoin could do just that
535 2012-11-09 18:08:23 <aurigae1> i still need to know how to calculat the hashrate of my pool and the workers to display it on my website, anybody with a solution???
536 2012-11-09 18:10:08 <Diapolo> sipa: Your suggestion on the allocator stuff would induce the need to change all functions using ``std::vector<unsigned char>&`` into ``std::vector<unsigned char, zero_after_free_allocator<unsigned char> >`` AFAIK!?
537 2012-11-09 18:11:16 <sipa> hmm, perhaps
538 2012-11-09 18:11:22 <Diapolo> e.g. DecodeBase58Check(psz, vchTemp); and the ones that get called from that one on
539 2012-11-09 18:11:33 <sipa> right
540 2012-11-09 18:11:41 <sipa> i'll have a look myself later
541 2012-11-09 18:12:05 <Diapolo> I can try to do this, but you need to carefully look at the pull then :).
542 2012-11-09 18:12:10 <Luke-Jr> maaku: you can run something like OT within the framework of Bitcoin. just have people transfer their Bitcoins to your centralized address and make withdrawls as they like
543 2012-11-09 18:12:33 <maaku> sipa: asset issuance inherently involves centralized trust in the issuer; OT requires trust in the issuer but not the server
544 2012-11-09 18:16:08 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
545 2012-11-09 18:16:18 <sipa> no trust in the server? can't the server just create as many tokens as it likes?
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549 2012-11-09 18:28:28 <Diapolo> sipa: I updated the pull without the discussed changes, you are free to participate or guide me through.
550 2012-11-09 18:29:19 <etotheipi_> sipa, Luke-Jr, gmaxwell, etc: could someone update the wiki page for BIP 21 to make all the bitcoin: URI examples clickable? It has exactly what I need to test updates to my URL handling, but only if they are clickable (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0021)
551 2012-11-09 18:29:55 knotwork has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
552 2012-11-09 18:29:58 <etotheipi_> (I imagine other client devs would appreciate it, too)
553 2012-11-09 18:30:27 TD has joined
554 2012-11-09 18:31:09 <sipa> Diapolo: it was just a suggestion; if it requires too many changes it's not worth it
555 2012-11-09 18:31:37 <sipa> etotheipi_: not sure whether i have edit rights
556 2012-11-09 18:32:19 <etotheipi_> sipa: well I certainly don't
557 2012-11-09 18:32:25 <etotheipi_> (I tried)
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563 2012-11-09 18:44:28 <Luke-Jr> etotheipi_: even with edit rights, I don't think the wiki supports bitcoin URIs yet
564 2012-11-09 18:44:52 <sipa> time to poke theymox/MagicalTux then
565 2012-11-09 18:46:02 <Luke-Jr> if it were me, I'd make it autodetect addresses and linkify them :P
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567 2012-11-09 18:50:56 <BlueMatt> no one else finds it a bad idea to start linking bitcoin addresses from the wiki page when anyone who signs up for an account can throw in their own address?
568 2012-11-09 19:01:11 <sipa> ha
569 2012-11-09 19:02:46 <Diapolo> I always wanted to change the example address in Qt to mine :-P, no just kidding.
570 2012-11-09 19:02:52 <Luke-Jr> etotheipi_: perhaps most relevant, the URIs in the BIPs should NOT be legal ;)
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573 2012-11-09 19:09:23 <etotheipi_> Luke-Jr: why not? (besides the few that aren't supposed to be legal)
574 2012-11-09 19:09:55 <etotheipi_> I imagine that a significant number of users accessing that page have a reason to want to test URIs
575 2012-11-09 19:10:00 <Luke-Jr> etotheipi_: because people might accidentally send to them
576 2012-11-09 19:10:05 <maaku> sipa: the issuer can create as many tokens as they like; OT server != issuer
577 2012-11-09 19:10:27 <maaku> sipa: but that's entirely the point--assets are a form of credit backed by an issuer
578 2012-11-09 19:10:34 <etotheipi_> why is that a concern? someone can click on a bitcoin: link from any page, they still have to confirm it
579 2012-11-09 19:11:35 <Luke-Jr> etotheipi_: they might accidentally confirm it? :p
580 2012-11-09 19:11:49 <sipa> and on a wiki, anyone can change the URI
581 2012-11-09 19:11:56 <etotheipi_> I'm just annoyed that every time I need to test URI handling, I have to go web searching, or through my email to find examples
582 2012-11-09 19:11:56 <sipa> (except on locked pages)
583 2012-11-09 19:12:38 <BlueMatt> etotheipi_: uhh...you should be able to copy/paste examples into your browser's address bar and just hit enter (well...maybe with a down key if you are using chrome)
584 2012-11-09 19:13:05 <etotheipi_> BlueMatt: that's a good point
585 2012-11-09 19:13:09 <gmaxwell> The right thing to do is just use an address with a bad checksum
586 2012-11-09 19:13:38 <gmaxwell> And yea, people will change it... but ::shrugs:: it'll be a fast way of identifying people who need to be banned.
587 2012-11-09 19:13:45 <etotheipi_> I don't understand who we're protecting by saying it's not wise to have valid URIs there
588 2012-11-09 19:14:20 <BlueMatt> its more of a "eh, do we have a valid reason why we need it, because its a fairly minor avenue for abuse"
589 2012-11-09 19:14:24 <etotheipi_> people who are completely clueless shouldn't be on that page anyway, and even if they are... there's multiple opportunities for them to cancel the transaction
590 2012-11-09 19:15:05 <etotheipi_> it's not a major thing... but it seems silly to me to have a webpage talking about standardizing webpage links, and having zero working examples
591 2012-11-09 19:15:21 <BlueMatt> rfcs?
592 2012-11-09 19:15:26 <Luke-Jr> etotheipi_: eligius.st has a few links IIRC
593 2012-11-09 19:15:53 <etotheipi_> I have a few examples of links... but what I like is that the wiki page has a diverse example set
594 2012-11-09 19:15:54 CodesInChaos has joined
595 2012-11-09 19:16:02 <etotheipi_> including some failures
596 2012-11-09 19:20:17 Lachesis has joined
597 2012-11-09 19:20:29 <Lachesis> so why doesn't bitcoin's encryptwallet feature use public-private key encryption? then there's be no need to worry about maintaining the keypool
598 2012-11-09 19:20:41 <etotheipi_> okay, it's just a recommendation
599 2012-11-09 19:21:30 Lachesis has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
600 2012-11-09 19:21:44 Lachesis has joined
601 2012-11-09 19:22:06 <etotheipi_> Lachesis: you're mixing up the various cryptography components used in Bitcoin and wallets
602 2012-11-09 19:22:20 <sipa> he is right though, it could have been used
603 2012-11-09 19:22:35 <gmaxwell> sipa: we discussed it.
604 2012-11-09 19:22:41 <sipa> i know
605 2012-11-09 19:22:45 <gmaxwell> as I responded in #bitcoin, Lachesis: because then a hostile party with temporay access to your wallet could fill its keypool with keys he controls.
606 2012-11-09 19:22:47 <Lachesis> sorry for starting a cross-channel discussion
607 2012-11-09 19:22:53 <gmaxwell> Lachesis: and then your change will happily go to him.
608 2012-11-09 19:22:56 <gmaxwell> I admit, a minor concern... but the simpler implementation avoids it.
609 2012-11-09 19:24:29 <etotheipi_> okay, here's an idea I'm pondering, I'd like feedback -- a "secure" plugin mechanism for Armory (useful on other apps, too)
610 2012-11-09 19:25:06 <etotheipi_> there's a plugin directory where users can dump .py files containing new "tabs" for the main window
611 2012-11-09 19:25:31 <sipa> how much access do these plugins have to the core/
612 2012-11-09 19:25:34 <etotheipi_> Armory would auto-detect the ones in that directory, and add a tab for each one, reading that .py file to know what code to run to display the tag
613 2012-11-09 19:25:55 <etotheipi_> theoretically the plugins could do anything Armory could do... but that's up for debate
614 2012-11-09 19:25:58 <etotheipi_> the key is this:
615 2012-11-09 19:26:11 <sipa> etotheipi_: btw, how much does armory still depend on bitcoind?
616 2012-11-09 19:26:27 <etotheipi_> there must be an associated plugin.py.signature file with the .py file
617 2012-11-09 19:26:30 <sipa> haven't used it in a while
618 2012-11-09 19:26:37 <etotheipi_> if a plugin is detected on load, it will check for the signature file
619 2012-11-09 19:26:54 optimator has joined
620 2012-11-09 19:26:54 optimator has quit (Changing host)
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623 2012-11-09 19:27:02 <etotheipi_> for non-official plugins, they wouldn't be loaded until the user explicitly signs it (Armory will prompt them)
624 2012-11-09 19:27:11 <etotheipi_> it will be signed with the root key of one of their wallets
625 2012-11-09 19:27:51 <etotheipi_> or, plugins that devs (me) supports can be signed and one of the signing keys to check
626 2012-11-09 19:28:44 <sipa> that also means someone can repackage the program, with a pre-signed malicious plugin
627 2012-11-09 19:28:54 <etotheipi_> sipa: but that's always a risk, anyway
628 2012-11-09 19:28:56 <sipa> but that's something a repackager can always do of course
629 2012-11-09 19:29:29 <etotheipi_> if the attacker has root access, they can swap out the armory installation with anything they want
630 2012-11-09 19:29:44 <etotheipi_> this wouldn't increase that aspect of the attack surface
631 2012-11-09 19:30:03 <etotheipi_> but it does prevent someone who's not so resourceful, from just dumping malicious plugins into your plugin dir
632 2012-11-09 19:30:26 <sipa> well i'd mostly fear social engineering to make people sign malicious things
633 2012-11-09 19:30:36 <etotheipi_> on the other hand, if they have that level of access, they can probably get your encryption key to sign it for you
634 2012-11-09 19:30:39 <sipa> but that's always a risk with third party plugins
635 2012-11-09 19:31:39 <etotheipi_> I'm not entirely clear how this would work if the user doesn't have any full wallets on their system
636 2012-11-09 19:31:49 <etotheipi_> they'd have to sign the plugin from their offline machine
637 2012-11-09 19:31:56 <sipa> etotheipi_: still, how much does armory still depend on bitcoidn?
638 2012-11-09 19:32:02 <etotheipi_> sipa: still completely
639 2012-11-09 19:32:15 <sipa> you're aware of the upcoming changes for 0.8?
640 2012-11-09 19:32:23 <etotheipi_> I have made no effort to re-implement the networking engine for Armory
641 2012-11-09 19:32:28 <etotheipi_> sipa: what changes are those?
642 2012-11-09 19:32:39 ThomasV_ has joined
643 2012-11-09 19:32:42 <etotheipi_> sipa: also note that Armory connects to Bitcoin-Qt/bitcoind as a peer
644 2012-11-09 19:32:47 <etotheipi_> so any RPC changes won't affect it
645 2012-11-09 19:32:53 <Luke-Jr> hmm, speaking of 0.8, is append-only HD wallets still planned for it? :o
646 2012-11-09 19:33:06 <sipa> etotheipi_: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119525.0
647 2012-11-09 19:33:10 <Luke-Jr> etotheipi_: blkindex is gone etc
648 2012-11-09 19:33:12 <etotheipi_> oooh, blkxxx.dat files
649 2012-11-09 19:33:46 <sipa> the blk000??.dat files have the same format as before, but they're smaller, different names, and in a subdir
650 2012-11-09 19:33:59 <etotheipi_> sipa: that's excellent to know
651 2012-11-09 19:34:11 Diapolo has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
652 2012-11-09 19:34:14 <Luke-Jr> sipa: really? same format? :/
653 2012-11-09 19:34:15 <etotheipi_> Armory handles any number and size of them... but having the correct path would be useful :)
654 2012-11-09 19:34:28 <sipa> Luke-Jr: because of compatibility issues, yes
655 2012-11-09 19:34:42 <Luke-Jr> sipa: didn't jgarzik have some simple compatible change that would enable sendfile?
656 2012-11-09 19:34:44 <etotheipi_> sipa: is it still a 4-digit numbre in there?
657 2012-11-09 19:34:51 <sipa> yes
658 2012-11-09 19:34:54 <sipa> Luke-Jr: in picocoin, yes
659 2012-11-09 19:35:05 <Luke-Jr> sipa: why not use it for bitcoind as well?
660 2012-11-09 19:35:16 <etotheipi_> so I relaly just have to convert "path/to/bitcoin/blkxxxx.dat" to "path/to/bitcoin/blocks/blkxxxx.dat"
661 2012-11-09 19:35:24 Goldman82 has joined
662 2012-11-09 19:35:34 <sipa> etotheipi_: 5 digits instead of 4, and starts at 0
663 2012-11-09 19:35:41 <sipa> Luke-Jr: meg
664 2012-11-09 19:35:44 <sipa> Luke-Jr: meh
665 2012-11-09 19:35:53 <etotheipi_> sipa: will there be a transition?
666 2012-11-09 19:35:55 <Luke-Jr> sipa: better than changing it later IMO
667 2012-11-09 19:35:58 <sipa> sendfile works just as fine now, you just have to send the header separately
668 2012-11-09 19:36:03 <Luke-Jr> hmm
669 2012-11-09 19:36:27 <sipa> it's not worth breaking compatibility for
670 2012-11-09 19:36:30 <Luke-Jr> ok
671 2012-11-09 19:36:48 <Luke-Jr> I don't see how it'd break compatibility, but if it works anyway might as well save the disk space
672 2012-11-09 19:36:48 <sipa> there's something nice about being able to use block files and bootstrap.dat interchangeable between all versions
673 2012-11-09 19:36:50 <Luke-Jr> :P
674 2012-11-09 19:36:56 <etotheipi_> will 0.8 clients convert their blk files to the one, or keep using the old system?
675 2012-11-09 19:37:13 <sipa> etotheipi_: probably just move them, and reindex
676 2012-11-09 19:37:19 <sipa> but that's not implemented yet
677 2012-11-09 19:37:34 <sipa> Luke-Jr: if i put some effort into it, i'm sure i can make block files 30-40% smaller
678 2012-11-09 19:37:45 <sipa> Luke-Jr: that'd be worth breaking compatibility for, imho
679 2012-11-09 19:38:02 <etotheipi_> so some users who currently have blk0001.dat and blk0002.dat will now have blocks/blk00000.dat (2GB), blocks/blk00001.dat (2GB), and then add 128 MB files to that?
680 2012-11-09 19:38:07 <sipa> yes
681 2012-11-09 19:38:18 <sipa> well, maybe
682 2012-11-09 19:38:22 <sipa> still to be discussed, i guess
683 2012-11-09 19:38:22 <etotheipi_> haha
684 2012-11-09 19:38:31 <etotheipi_> sounds like there's no imminent threat of it
685 2012-11-09 19:38:39 <Luke-Jr> sipa: it might make sense to copy the data just to defragment
686 2012-11-09 19:38:53 <sipa> Luke-Jr: if you're going to copy, you can just use loadblock
687 2012-11-09 19:38:53 <etotheipi_> I will update my search function to look for blk0001+, and if it's not there, it will look for blocks/blk00000+
688 2012-11-09 19:38:59 <Luke-Jr> sipa: sure
689 2012-11-09 19:39:16 <etotheipi_> think that's safe?
690 2012-11-09 19:39:17 <sipa> which has many advantages, but also requires temporarily 2x as much storage space
691 2012-11-09 19:39:17 <Luke-Jr> etotheipi_: I'd do the inverse. Some people may keep the old data.
692 2012-11-09 19:39:25 <etotheipi_> oh, look for the new data first
693 2012-11-09 19:39:27 <etotheipi_> makes sense
694 2012-11-09 19:39:36 D34TH has joined
695 2012-11-09 19:39:36 D34TH has quit (Changing host)
696 2012-11-09 19:39:36 D34TH has joined
697 2012-11-09 19:39:37 <sipa> agree, first check new data
698 2012-11-09 19:39:49 <sipa> or you could judge by mtime
699 2012-11-09 19:39:58 <Luke-Jr> or load both
700 2012-11-09 19:40:00 <Luke-Jr> :p
701 2012-11-09 19:40:26 * Luke-Jr grumbles about testnet's target being too high
702 2012-11-09 19:41:28 <sipa> about HD wallets / append-only wallet format... whatever I (or someone else) manages to implement, I guess
703 2012-11-09 19:41:39 <sipa> having a daytime job doesn't help :)
704 2012-11-09 19:42:12 * Luke-Jr gets sipa fired from dayjob.
705 2012-11-09 19:42:13 <Luke-Jr> j/k ;)
706 2012-11-09 19:42:20 <etotheipi_> oh, I'm not the only one with a real job, here? :)
707 2012-11-09 19:42:35 <etotheipi_> or do you all chat on IRC from work?
708 2012-11-09 19:42:45 <sipa> it's 8:30 pm here...
709 2012-11-09 19:42:48 <Luke-Jr> etotheipi_: I control when/how I work. ;)
710 2012-11-09 19:44:24 <sipa> hmm, idea... if blocks/ exists, but blktree/ doesn't, I could run a -reindex automatically
711 2012-11-09 19:44:55 <sipa> so you could just drop an archived set of blk*.dat files in your datadir, and have them imported with zero additional storage
712 2012-11-09 19:45:38 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
713 2012-11-09 19:46:18 <D34TH> sipa: sounds good
714 2012-11-09 19:46:18 <D34TH> :D
715 2012-11-09 19:46:47 <D34TH> but will it blend
716 2012-11-09 19:47:20 <sipa> it's already the case that if you have blocks/ + matching blktree/, but no coins/ is not up-to-date, it gets updated at startup automatically
717 2012-11-09 19:47:29 <sipa> -no
718 2012-11-09 19:48:03 <sipa> i like having these "if it's broken, delete it, and it gets regenerated" practices
719 2012-11-09 19:48:07 Joric has joined
720 2012-11-09 19:48:31 <D34TH> question, whats the difference between the .sst and the .log in coins/
721 2012-11-09 19:48:43 <sipa> .sst as sstables, .log are logs :)
722 2012-11-09 19:48:50 <sipa> .sst's are sorted, .log's are not
723 2012-11-09 19:49:15 <D34TH> ahh, because i was going to say the log looks just like the ssts
724 2012-11-09 19:49:19 <D34TH> completly unreadable
725 2012-11-09 19:49:27 <sipa> .log's get written synchronously when updates are written, and they are converted to .sst's in the background
726 2012-11-09 19:49:45 <sipa> and then .sst's get merged/rewritten when necessary
727 2012-11-09 19:50:02 <D34TH> so its more a tx log
728 2012-11-09 19:50:05 <D34TH> than a reading log
729 2012-11-09 19:50:33 <sipa> it's a transaction log, yes
730 2012-11-09 19:50:48 <D34TH> that answers my question, thanks
731 2012-11-09 19:50:49 <D34TH> :D
732 2012-11-09 19:51:44 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, sipa: pynode stores blocks a P2P "block" messages, suitable for direct sendfile(2). However, it is just as valid for bitcoind to send the P2P message header via send(2) with MSG_MORE flag, then calling sendfile(2) on the block data itself.
733 2012-11-09 19:52:00 <jgarzik> picocoin does not store full blocks, so not really applicable to picocoin.
734 2012-11-09 19:52:05 <sipa> oh, pynode
735 2012-11-09 19:52:10 <jgarzik> picocoin just stores merkle tx's.
736 2012-11-09 19:52:16 * sipa confuses all these jgarzik nodes
737 2012-11-09 19:52:19 <jgarzik> ;p
738 2012-11-09 19:52:47 <D34TH> useragent("jgarzik/picocoin")
739 2012-11-09 19:52:48 <D34TH> :D
740 2012-11-09 19:53:09 <sipa> useragent("matrix/smith")
741 2012-11-09 19:53:26 <D34TH> Mr. Anderson, we meet again
742 2012-11-09 19:53:34 <sipa> surprised to see me?
743 2012-11-09 19:53:48 <D34TH> :3
744 2012-11-09 19:57:17 * Luke-Jr wonders if pynode shows up on the client list yet
745 2012-11-09 19:57:51 * Luke-Jr ponders wtf /bitsofproof:0.5/ is
746 2012-11-09 19:58:17 <Luke-Jr> no sign of pynode yet :\
747 2012-11-09 19:58:18 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: new full node client from grau(sp?)
748 2012-11-09 19:58:30 <D34TH> Luke-Jr, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=122013.0
749 2012-11-09 19:58:35 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: pynode does not listen, only connects out
750 2012-11-09 19:58:57 <Luke-Jr> aha
751 2012-11-09 19:59:11 <sipa> i'm really glad to see some many active listening ipv6 nodes
752 2012-11-09 19:59:19 <sipa> >350 in my seeds.txt
753 2012-11-09 20:00:33 <gmaxwell> seems almost suspect!
754 2012-11-09 20:00:48 * D34TH grabs his box of tinfoil hats
755 2012-11-09 20:00:51 <D34TH> 1 btc per hat
756 2012-11-09 20:00:55 <D34TH> orderly line please
757 2012-11-09 20:01:59 <jgarzik> in many cases, it is easier to have ipv6 listening nodes, than ipv4.
758 2012-11-09 20:02:16 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
759 2012-11-09 20:02:54 <sipa> however, my onion node on my laptop doesn't seem to get detected by my seeder
760 2012-11-09 20:03:13 <jgarzik> thanks to amiller, pynode was upgraded from asyncore shite, so it just required coder time to make pynode a full node.
761 2012-11-09 20:03:18 <jgarzik> still lacks all the DoS protections
762 2012-11-09 20:03:32 inlikeflynn has joined
763 2012-11-09 20:03:49 <jgarzik> some of the "DoS protections" are in actuality necessities for pynode, e.g. signature cache, otherwise performance is slow.
764 2012-11-09 20:04:10 <sipa> that's not a DoS protections; that's a performance optimization
765 2012-11-09 20:06:20 inlikeflynn has quit (Changing host)
766 2012-11-09 20:06:20 inlikeflynn has joined
767 2012-11-09 20:06:43 <jgarzik> sipa: Sergio Damian Lerner (sp?) considered it DoS protection as well, at least
768 2012-11-09 20:06:52 * jgarzik doesn't care about labelling, call it what you will
769 2012-11-09 20:06:53 inlikeflynn has left ()
770 2012-11-09 20:07:15 inlikeflynn has joined
771 2012-11-09 20:07:29 <sipa> good point
772 2012-11-09 20:10:23 <sipa> damn... i've wondered for a long time what (sp?) means... it just means (spelling?) ?
773 2012-11-09 20:10:24 <Luke-Jr> slush1: ping
774 2012-11-09 20:10:32 <Luke-Jr> sipa: yes
775 2012-11-09 20:10:39 <Lachesis> sipa, yeppers
776 2012-11-09 20:10:50 <Lachesis> sipa, i'm an ipv6 node :)
777 2012-11-09 20:11:14 <slush1> Luke-Jr: yes?
778 2012-11-09 20:11:40 <Luke-Jr> slush1: set_difficulty allows any Number, or only integers?
779 2012-11-09 20:12:16 * forrestv wishes that stratum used normal hex targets instead of "difficulty"
780 2012-11-09 20:12:43 <Luke-Jr> ^
781 2012-11-09 20:12:44 <slush1> Luke-Jr: good question. For some reasons, after discussion with ckolivas and Eleuthria I limited it to integers only, but now I cannot remember the reason
782 2012-11-09 20:12:48 <Luke-Jr> forrestv: bring it up during the BIP process :D
783 2012-11-09 20:13:02 <Luke-Jr> slush1: so there's no way to request non-truncated shares?
784 2012-11-09 20:13:16 <slush1> what do you mean by non-truncated shares?
785 2012-11-09 20:13:31 <Luke-Jr> slush1: full true-bits after the initial zero-bits
786 2012-11-09 20:14:11 <slush1> Luke-Jr: well, my mining proxy and poclbm accepts difficulty with decimal places, but ckolivas rejected it :)
787 2012-11-09 20:14:11 <Luke-Jr> eg, pdiff 1 = 32 false-bits + 224 true-bits
788 2012-11-09 20:14:22 <slush1> as far as I remember because of implementation details in C
789 2012-11-09 20:14:40 <slush1> (dividing big numbers with float precision)
790 2012-11-09 20:14:59 galambo_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
791 2012-11-09 20:15:08 <sipa> using difficulty in any format always requires a division, and that seems like asking from problems
792 2012-11-09 20:15:10 <slush1> and I didn't see a reason for full precision, so I accepted it
793 2012-11-09 20:15:39 <slush1> actually why we need so precisious difficulty?
794 2012-11-09 20:16:03 <Luke-Jr> well, if it works in the reference proxy, I'll just consider that standard for now
795 2012-11-09 20:16:05 TD has joined
796 2012-11-09 20:16:10 <Luke-Jr> slush1: otherwise miners will lose shares
797 2012-11-09 20:16:15 <slush1> how?
798 2012-11-09 20:16:29 <Luke-Jr> they won't submit 00000000FFFF1FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
799 2012-11-09 20:17:29 * TD wonders what is up with people proclaiming their bitcoin reimplementations to be the dawn of a new age
800 2012-11-09 20:17:32 <slush1> afaik diff1 == 0x00000000ffff0000....
801 2012-11-09 20:17:40 <slush1> so yes, such share won't be accepted for difficulty 1
802 2012-11-09 20:17:44 <sipa> TD: haha
803 2012-11-09 20:18:27 <sipa> TD: are you referring to cbitcoin or bitsofproof?
804 2012-11-09 20:18:31 <TD> both
805 2012-11-09 20:18:34 <TD> it seems to be a trend
806 2012-11-09 20:19:17 <Luke-Jr> slush1: bdiff1 = 0x00000000ffff0000â¦, but pdiff1 = 0x00000000ffffffffâ¦
807 2012-11-09 20:19:24 <slush1> what the hell is pdiff?
808 2012-11-09 20:19:30 <Luke-Jr> pool difficulty
809 2012-11-09 20:19:39 <slush1> what pool difficulty?
810 2012-11-09 20:19:49 <Luke-Jr> the one pools have used since you started yours 2 years ago
811 2012-11-09 20:19:50 <Luke-Jr> :p
812 2012-11-09 20:20:00 <sipa> just have a well-defined difficulty
813 2012-11-09 20:20:00 <slush1> yes, I made a mistake and everybody copied it from me :-D
814 2012-11-09 20:20:11 <Luke-Jr> slush1: no, it's well-reasoned!
815 2012-11-09 20:20:16 <Luke-Jr> it's easier to check pdiffs
816 2012-11-09 20:20:23 <slush1> 0x00000000ffff0000 is exactly diff1
817 2012-11-09 20:20:31 sudog has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
818 2012-11-09 20:20:40 <Luke-Jr> 0x00000000ffff0000 is pdiff1 passed through bitcoin's custom floating point
819 2012-11-09 20:21:02 <Luke-Jr> there's no reason to use it for pools
820 2012-11-09 20:21:48 <slush1> well, what means "difficulty 1" exactly?
821 2012-11-09 20:21:59 <sipa> it means whatever you define it to mean
822 2012-11-09 20:22:08 <sipa> but do define it :)
823 2012-11-09 20:22:10 <slush1> or, better, where's defined that diff1 is 0x00000000fffffffffffff....
824 2012-11-09 20:22:17 <Luke-Jr> slush1: it could mean pdiff1 or bdiff1 :p
825 2012-11-09 20:22:23 sudog has joined
826 2012-11-09 20:22:34 <slush1> I never heard pdiff/bdiff, where did you find these terms?
827 2012-11-09 20:22:40 <sipa> slush1: in his head
828 2012-11-09 20:22:46 <sipa> do people really use "difficulty 1" when referring to 0x00000000FFFFFFFF... ?
829 2012-11-09 20:22:50 <Luke-Jr> yes
830 2012-11-09 20:23:05 <slush1> sipa: yes, because I made a mistake. no other reason
831 2012-11-09 20:23:15 <sipa> well, doesn't matter
832 2012-11-09 20:23:19 <sipa> just specify what you mean
833 2012-11-09 20:23:20 <Luke-Jr> sipa: it's insanely close
834 2012-11-09 20:23:24 <sipa> i know
835 2012-11-09 20:23:25 sgornick has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
836 2012-11-09 20:23:42 <Luke-Jr> slush1: for performance too
837 2012-11-09 20:23:50 <slush1> when I built first pool code, I just wanted to make checks easy, so I checked first eight zeros
838 2012-11-09 20:23:55 <slush1> obviously a hack
839 2012-11-09 20:24:00 <Luke-Jr> checking count of false-bits is faster than doing bignum math
840 2012-11-09 20:24:11 <sipa> Luke-Jr: no need to explain math to me, but i'd certainly call it difficulty 0.999985 :)
841 2012-11-09 20:24:26 <slush1> Luke-Jr: it works good, unless you want dynamic difficulty ;)
842 2012-11-09 20:24:36 <Luke-Jr> slush1: even with dynamic difficulty!
843 2012-11-09 20:24:39 <slush1> and diff1 pools are going to die
844 2012-11-09 20:24:41 elkingrey has joined
845 2012-11-09 20:24:53 <Luke-Jr> slush1: I'm storing share difficulties as "number of false-bits minus 32"
846 2012-11-09 20:25:24 <slush1> I see this as an over optimization
847 2012-11-09 20:25:31 <slush1> doing "full check" is super cheap
848 2012-11-09 20:26:24 <Luke-Jr> not in terms of coding time
849 2012-11-09 20:26:31 <Luke-Jr> *unless you're using Python
850 2012-11-09 20:26:55 <slush1> or any other sane language
851 2012-11-09 20:27:05 <slush1> like Scala :)
852 2012-11-09 20:28:08 <Luke-Jr> respect teh C!
853 2012-11-09 20:28:09 <slush1> well, ckolivas solved this by not doing full check on all bits, but he took only 64 bits after initial 32bits of zeroes
854 2012-11-09 20:28:14 <slush1> gives "good enough" math, even in C
855 2012-11-09 20:28:43 <slush1> I see 64bit precision good enough even for pools
856 2012-11-09 20:30:13 Z0rZ0rZ0r has joined
857 2012-11-09 20:30:45 <Luke-Jr> slush1: you may be right on this, but it's still annoying that stratum is tied to integer bdiffs. I guess that can be discussed in more depth after the initial draft is done though
858 2012-11-09 20:31:17 <sipa> i really consider that a detail
859 2012-11-09 20:31:27 <sipa> if it's well-defined, there is no problem
860 2012-11-09 20:32:05 <slush1> actually the only reason again integer difficulty is support for alt chains (using <diff1 shares)
861 2012-11-09 20:32:08 <slush1> but...
862 2012-11-09 20:32:55 <Luke-Jr> slush1: ?
863 2012-11-09 20:33:16 <slush1> some alt chains are using difficulty below 1
864 2012-11-09 20:33:40 <slush1> obviously it's impossible to define so small target with integer difficulty.
865 2012-11-09 20:33:55 <slush1> But it's not a problem for bitcoin, so not a problem for me
866 2012-11-09 20:34:03 <Luke-Jr> slush1: btw, you know stratum isn't JSON-RPC 2.0 compatible?
867 2012-11-09 20:34:22 <sipa> i didn't know stratum was even JSON-RPC
868 2012-11-09 20:34:32 <Luke-Jr> lol
869 2012-11-09 20:34:40 <slush1> yes :) I forgot in which part, but I know there's some difference
870 2012-11-09 20:34:50 <Luke-Jr> slush1: JSON-RPC 2.0 doesn't allow bidirectional
871 2012-11-09 20:34:52 <sipa> afaik, it's just JSON over TCP?
872 2012-11-09 20:35:06 <D34TH> whoop whoop, got the full pynode working on win32
873 2012-11-09 20:35:08 <slush1> Luke-Jr: oh, that's something different
874 2012-11-09 20:35:13 <Luke-Jr> sipa: JSON-RPC defines the format of the JSON stuff, it doesn't require HTTP
875 2012-11-09 20:35:19 <slush1> Luke-Jr: can you send me a link to this statement?
876 2012-11-09 20:36:15 <etotheipi_> so does the rest of the world hate the US as much as the US hates itself?
877 2012-11-09 20:36:54 <slush1> Luke-Jr: oh, I remember. It is different in error handling. JSON-RPC defines error as object, but I defined it as 3-tuple
878 2012-11-09 20:37:26 <slush1> Luke-Jr: but I cannot find anything about that bi-directional statement
879 2012-11-09 20:37:33 <Luke-Jr> slush1: the spec talks about client-server stuff, I'm not sure on the original source of the bidirectional thing
880 2012-11-09 20:38:03 <Luke-Jr> though I'm noticing that notify should not have any result, not even null, and "jsonrpc":"2.0" is required
881 2012-11-09 20:38:27 <slush1> yes, that's another thing. passing "jsonrpc": "2.0" for every method seems incredibly stupid
882 2012-11-09 20:38:45 <D34TH> should be assumed by default
883 2012-11-09 20:38:55 <D34TH> pass 1.x if not
884 2012-11-09 20:38:55 <D34TH> :D
885 2012-11-09 20:40:17 <slush1> well, maybe I should say it is json-rpc 1.1 compatible, and problem is gone :)
886 2012-11-09 20:40:22 <Luke-Jr> ;)
887 2012-11-09 20:40:40 <D34TH> i totally want https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1549 pulled
888 2012-11-09 20:41:00 <Luke-Jr> D34TH: that was planned for 0.7 originally, but fell through the cracks XD
889 2012-11-09 20:41:06 <D34TH> i see
890 2012-11-09 20:41:09 PiZZaMaN2K is now known as PiZZaMaN2K|away
891 2012-11-09 20:41:10 <D34TH> now its for 0.8.0
892 2012-11-09 20:41:34 <D34TH> would be very handy
893 2012-11-09 20:41:46 <D34TH> now only if pynode also had that
894 2012-11-09 20:43:14 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
895 2012-11-09 20:43:41 <Luke-Jr> slush1: one problem I have having understanding is how to multiplex miners on a single stratum link
896 2012-11-09 20:44:04 deadserious has joined
897 2012-11-09 20:44:24 <slush1> Luke-Jr: any specific problem?
898 2012-11-09 20:44:27 deadserious is now known as Guest7426
899 2012-11-09 20:44:48 <Luke-Jr> slush1: no, I don't see how it's possible at all
900 2012-11-09 20:45:10 <Luke-Jr> I would have expected a unique extranonce1 per miner, but I don't see that in the spec
901 2012-11-09 20:45:16 <slush1> maybe I don't understand what you mean by "multiples on a single link"
902 2012-11-09 20:45:31 <slush1> no, there's just one subscription
903 2012-11-09 20:46:01 <slush1> but the client can add some unique byte to extranonce1 and lower extranonce2_size, to every sub-miner
904 2012-11-09 20:46:03 <Luke-Jr> slush1: different users on the same stratum connection
905 2012-11-09 20:46:14 <Luke-Jr> o
906 2012-11-09 20:46:34 <jgarzik> D34TH: neat! Did pynode require any modifications, to work on Windows?
907 2012-11-09 20:46:40 <D34TH> nope
908 2012-11-09 20:46:47 <jgarzik> D34TH: picocoin would, sadly, require replacement of fork(2) to work on Windows.
909 2012-11-09 20:46:56 <slush1> Luke-Jr: for example proxy is now adding one byte extra, allowing 255 sub-miners
910 2012-11-09 20:47:02 <D34TH> i used my libleveldb from my bitcoin pullreq
911 2012-11-09 20:47:13 <D34TH> snappy was a little weird to i used that
912 2012-11-09 20:47:34 <slush1> but I'm thinking to raise make extranonce2_size on the pool, eight seems a bit low
913 2012-11-09 20:48:10 Guest7426 has quit (Read error: No route to host)
914 2012-11-09 20:48:11 <jgarzik> slush: the main thing JSON-RPC 2.0 adds is permitting batches of requests, and batches of responses, in a single message. You pass an array at the top-level object, containing a list of JSON-RPC requests. The server responds with an array of JSON-RPC responses. Very useful for reducing round-trip times, if you have multiple requests.
915 2012-11-09 20:48:17 <jgarzik> slush1: ^
916 2012-11-09 20:48:29 <jgarzik> so batch support would be nice
917 2012-11-09 20:48:36 <slush1> jgarzik: oh, so I should redefine it as json-rpc 1.1 compatible
918 2012-11-09 20:49:01 <slush1> I see batches as useful for HTTP
919 2012-11-09 20:49:13 <slush1> but it just adds unnecessary complexity for tcp streams...
920 2012-11-09 20:49:18 <Luke-Jr> yeah, not sure if batches makes sense for TCP streams
921 2012-11-09 20:49:35 <jgarzik> TCP or HTTP, batches still make sense
922 2012-11-09 20:49:46 <jgarzik> of course, "makes sense" depends on your usage
923 2012-11-09 20:50:01 <slush1> especially for mining, you want to submit share as fast as you can, not cache shares and send them in batch...
924 2012-11-09 20:50:13 <jgarzik> sure
925 2012-11-09 20:50:35 <jgarzik> but the stratum protocol is proposed for other uses than just fast mining, I thought?
926 2012-11-09 20:50:42 <D34TH> i like how bitcoin only uses ~175 mb ram now
927 2012-11-09 20:51:10 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: how do batches make sense for TCP?
928 2012-11-09 20:51:14 <slush1> jgarzik: yes, but still, I cannot imagine useful use-case anyway
929 2012-11-09 20:51:59 <slush1> it's still about some balance. of course, it's possible to compress json overhead by batches
930 2012-11-09 20:53:07 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: reduces overhead, uses fewer packets, versus pipelined requests of same
931 2012-11-09 20:53:35 <jgarzik> if your protocol has transactional features, or you need to request a great many small items, bundling may help on server side too
932 2012-11-09 20:54:45 maqr has joined
933 2012-11-09 20:55:36 <slush1> jgarzik: is a batch considered as a transaction? I think that implementing transactions accross multiple RPC calls is far from trivial...
934 2012-11-09 20:56:00 <jgarzik> slush1: it is what you make of it, like any JSON. it can, or cannot be, as you define.
935 2012-11-09 20:56:13 agricocb has joined
936 2012-11-09 20:56:27 <jgarzik> "batch" is simply aggregating multiple json-rpc requests into a single array
937 2012-11-09 20:56:33 <jgarzik> (ditto responses)
938 2012-11-09 20:56:44 <D34TH> needs moar brackets
939 2012-11-09 20:57:14 <slush1> I understand. Still, I hope I won't need transactions for long time ;)
940 2012-11-09 20:57:32 <slush1> need to implement, I mean
941 2012-11-09 21:07:52 root2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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953 2012-11-09 21:37:55 pooler has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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961 2012-11-09 21:43:45 Z0rZ0rZ0r has quit (Quit: Wheeeee)
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963 2012-11-09 21:46:40 <Luke-Jr> slush: seems to me set_difficulty and multiple users don't work together in theory?
964 2012-11-09 21:47:07 <sipa> ;;bc,block
965 2012-11-09 21:47:07 <gribble> Error: "bc,block" is not a valid command.
966 2012-11-09 21:47:08 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
967 2012-11-09 21:47:09 <gribble> 207241
968 2012-11-09 21:48:04 deadserious has joined
969 2012-11-09 21:48:29 deadserious is now known as Guest72181
970 2012-11-09 21:48:30 <sipa> ok, -reindex with default cache size and sigchecking disabled: 13 minutes
971 2012-11-09 21:52:06 Guest72181 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
972 2012-11-09 21:53:49 sgornick has joined
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976 2012-11-09 22:01:41 Diapolo has joined
977 2012-11-09 22:03:18 <sipa> Luke-Jr: any interest in updating your full hashes in debug.log patch?
978 2012-11-09 22:03:40 <Luke-Jr> sipa: blah, it needs rebasing? :|
979 2012-11-09 22:03:46 PhantomSpark has joined
980 2012-11-09 22:03:50 ibno has joined
981 2012-11-09 22:04:08 <Luke-Jr> sipa: I'll try to get to it later tonight maybe
982 2012-11-09 22:04:27 <sipa> probably easier to rewrite from scratch... i wouldn't even bother with the helper functions... hash.ToString.c_str() works fine :)
983 2012-11-09 22:15:56 <Diapolo> Is there any release schedule for 0.8?
984 2012-11-09 22:16:51 <sipa> no feature freeze yet
985 2012-11-09 22:17:22 <sipa> as it may still take some time for the recent changes to mature
986 2012-11-09 22:17:22 ibno has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
987 2012-11-09 22:18:56 <Diapolo> that's fine, what are the biggest things not yet merged or created to make it into 0.8 from your point of view?
988 2012-11-09 22:19:44 xIsalty is now known as xIsalty-otc
989 2012-11-09 22:19:58 <sipa> auto-upgrading old datadir, bloom filtering
990 2012-11-09 22:21:02 slush1 has joined
991 2012-11-09 22:21:08 <Diapolo> oh btw. I would love to see your remove detach pull get merged ^^
992 2012-11-09 22:21:25 <sipa> it's not merged yet?
993 2012-11-09 22:21:36 <Diapolo> there are many ACKed things not merged
994 2012-11-09 22:22:18 <sipa> Diapolo: if you want to hack on db.{cpp,h}, a large part of it can be removed now that's only used for wallets
995 2012-11-09 22:23:30 <sipa> there you go
996 2012-11-09 22:23:34 <Diapolo> I just stumpled upon that part and that function is still in use ^^ (::Open()).
997 2012-11-09 22:23:57 <Diapolo> Thought it's a good thing to simplify that many path variables ^^.
998 2012-11-09 22:24:45 <Diapolo> sipa: thanks
999 2012-11-09 22:25:05 <Diapolo> You are able to run and compile the Qt version right? Can you test a small thing?
1000 2012-11-09 22:27:56 <Diapolo> sipa: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/init.cpp#L514 insert a "return false;" there and start Qt, what happens for you?
1001 2012-11-09 22:34:47 <sipa> in current head?
1002 2012-11-09 22:35:05 <sipa> probably not...
1003 2012-11-09 22:37:01 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1004 2012-11-09 22:37:09 <sipa> Diapolo: where exactly? 514 is currently inside the handling of -salvagewallet
1005 2012-11-09 22:37:15 rdponticelli_ has joined
1006 2012-11-09 22:38:13 <Diapolo> right
1007 2012-11-09 22:38:43 <Diapolo> exactly after the first part there which calls ::Open()
1008 2012-11-09 22:39:10 <sipa> I see no ::Open in init.cpp
1009 2012-11-09 22:39:44 <sipa> you mean bitdb.Open(GetDataDir()) ?
1010 2012-11-09 22:40:43 <Diapolo> return false;
1011 2012-11-09 22:40:43 <Diapolo> if (GetBoolArg("-salvagewallet"))
1012 2012-11-09 22:41:19 <sipa> ok, building
1013 2012-11-09 22:41:26 elkingrey has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1014 2012-11-09 22:41:59 <Diapolo> this triggers a Data Execution Prevention Exception for me ... I want to know if that is my build or Windows only
1015 2012-11-09 22:43:17 ovidiusoft has quit (Quit: leaving)
1016 2012-11-09 22:43:58 optimator_ has joined
1017 2012-11-09 22:43:59 <sipa> just quits; no problems
1018 2012-11-09 22:44:23 <Diapolo> strange ...
1019 2012-11-09 22:45:37 optimator has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1020 2012-11-09 22:45:45 <Diapolo> I found that "bug?" by setting an invalid proxy, which triggers it even with official 0.7.1 because of return InitError();
1021 2012-11-09 22:47:07 elkingrey has joined
1022 2012-11-09 22:53:41 maaku has left ()
1023 2012-11-09 22:56:27 <Diapolo> I disabled the DEP protection and get a stack related crash of Bitcoin-Qt ...
1024 2012-11-09 22:56:50 <Diapolo> seems the DEP one is safer anyway, but there is something not right
1025 2012-11-09 22:57:33 <edcba> why is there a need for a proxy ?
1026 2012-11-09 22:57:34 <sipa> i ran bitcoin-qt after that extra return false under valgrind, and couldn't even see any unexpected warnings
1027 2012-11-09 22:58:10 <Diapolo> sipa: seems Windows related, unsure about Mac but not affects Linux
1028 2012-11-09 22:58:16 prahanormal has quit ()
1029 2012-11-09 22:58:33 <Diapolo> edcba: that was just to trigger an startup abort
1030 2012-11-09 22:58:45 <Diapolo> Are you using Windows :)?
1031 2012-11-09 23:05:13 BlackPrapor has joined
1032 2012-11-09 23:06:12 eoss has joined
1033 2012-11-09 23:06:29 <Guest73974> Project Bitcoin build #133: FAILURE in 39 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/133/
1034 2012-11-09 23:06:34 Guest43661 has joined
1035 2012-11-09 23:06:53 Guest43661 is now known as astor
1036 2012-11-09 23:08:51 <Diapolo> at least my debugger seems to work I'll look into it
1037 2012-11-09 23:12:49 x18882 has joined
1038 2012-11-09 23:12:59 <x18882> hi
1039 2012-11-09 23:13:25 maaku has joined
1040 2012-11-09 23:13:49 <x18882> is it possible to run bitcoind with no blockchain? kind of in a "relay-only" mode?
1041 2012-11-09 23:15:21 <x18882> the idea is to run it to help the bitcoin network, even if I don't have enough storage or bandwidth to store the blockchain for now
1042 2012-11-09 23:17:08 <phantomcircuit> x18882, that doesn't really help actually
1043 2012-11-09 23:17:14 <phantomcircuit> you just become yet another consumer
1044 2012-11-09 23:18:47 <Diapolo> sipa: the crash comes from backup_holder, which is a class of Boost variant...
1045 2012-11-09 23:19:42 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1047 2012-11-09 23:23:45 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1048 2012-11-09 23:25:10 <sipa> there, build fixed
1049 2012-11-09 23:27:10 x18882 has quit (Quit: Yo!)
1050 2012-11-09 23:32:28 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1051 2012-11-09 23:33:30 <Diapolo> sipa: you keep pushing, nice :D
1052 2012-11-09 23:34:05 astor has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1053 2012-11-09 23:39:16 <D34TH> i like how simple blockchain backups can be now
1054 2012-11-09 23:39:21 <D34TH> just upload the dats
1055 2012-11-09 23:39:24 <D34TH> and it will rebuild it
1056 2012-11-09 23:39:35 <D34TH> instead of 2gb tar.gz
1057 2012-11-09 23:39:37 stalled has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1058 2012-11-09 23:43:49 <Diapolo> sipa: What about my explicit bind pull? I'm tired to still see it open, counter-motivating as you ACKed some time ago.
1059 2012-11-09 23:46:06 knotwork has joined
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1061 2012-11-09 23:46:06 knotwork has joined
1062 2012-11-09 23:47:21 Diapolo has left ()
1063 2012-11-09 23:47:28 <Guest73974> Project Bitcoin build #134: STILL FAILING in 40 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/134/
1064 2012-11-09 23:48:08 <D34TH> so it nickname
1065 2012-11-09 23:48:09 <D34TH> D:
1066 2012-11-09 23:48:16 xIsalty-otc is now known as C00lty
1067 2012-11-09 23:48:27 MBS is now known as C0olty
1068 2012-11-09 23:48:28 C00lty is now known as xisalty-otc
1069 2012-11-09 23:48:32 C0olty is now known as MBS
1070 2012-11-09 23:48:55 <D34TH> test/miner_tests.cpp:75: void miner_tests::CreateNewBlock_validity::test_method(): Assertion `ProcessBlock(__null, pblock)'
1071 2012-11-09 23:48:57 <D34TH> hmm
1072 2012-11-09 23:49:12 <sipa> D34TH: it's already fixed
1073 2012-11-09 23:49:29 <D34TH> D:
1074 2012-11-09 23:49:37 <D34TH> i was going to look into it too
1075 2012-11-09 23:49:46 <D34TH> there goes my nice deed
1076 2012-11-09 23:49:52 <sipa> sorry...
1077 2012-11-09 23:49:52 <xisalty-otc> lol
1078 2012-11-09 23:50:11 <D34TH> Build #135 is already in progress (ETA:6 hr 15 min) )
1079 2012-11-09 23:50:14 <D34TH> DD:
1080 2012-11-09 23:53:42 <xisalty-otc> 6 hrs
1081 2012-11-09 23:53:52 <xisalty-otc> why does it take so long >
1082 2012-11-09 23:54:16 <sipa> it runs in a virtual machine on an amazon instance
1083 2012-11-09 23:54:38 <xisalty-otc> fair poitn
1084 2012-11-09 23:54:39 <D34TH> i.e. -1 cores
1085 2012-11-09 23:54:46 <D34TH> @ -55 THz
1086 2012-11-09 23:54:55 <Joric> go boost