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  6 2012-11-14 00:21:11 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: steal code from https://github.com/jgarzik/pynode/tree/master/bitcoin
  7 2012-11-14 00:21:16 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: it's a python bitcoin lib
  8 2012-11-14 00:21:47 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: Very modular; easy to ignore parts you don't care about
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 10 2012-11-14 00:33:20 Zarutian has joined
 11 2012-11-14 00:36:19 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, yeah i dont really need all that
 12 2012-11-14 00:36:57 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: luckily it is "easy to ignore parts you don't care about"
 13 2012-11-14 00:38:52 <phantomcircuit> no i mean the version construction
 14 2012-11-14 00:38:58 <phantomcircuit> i only need a static string
 15 2012-11-14 00:38:59 <phantomcircuit> lol
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 21 2012-11-14 00:47:14 <etotheipi_> is there a reason my debug.log file for Bitcoin-Qt is 2.7 GB?
 22 2012-11-14 00:47:39 <sipa> do you use -debug ?
 23 2012-11-14 00:47:52 <etotheipi_> no
 24 2012-11-14 00:47:52 <D34TH> do you ever delete it
 25 2012-11-14 00:47:54 <D34TH> ever
 26 2012-11-14 00:48:06 <etotheipi_> no, I never delete it
 27 2012-11-14 00:48:09 <etotheipi_> I never look at it
 28 2012-11-14 00:48:22 <etotheipi_> this is the first time in months I've gone to look at it
 29 2012-11-14 00:48:36 <sipa> how long has it been running?
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 31 2012-11-14 00:48:48 <etotheipi_> I start it and stop it pretty frequently
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 33 2012-11-14 00:49:03 <sipa> i believe it truncates it at startup if it's too large
 34 2012-11-14 00:49:07 <etotheipi_> (testing Armory's capability to handle disconnects, etc)
 35 2012-11-14 00:49:15 BitcoinBaltar has joined
 36 2012-11-14 00:49:22 <etotheipi_> hmmmm
 37 2012-11-14 00:49:35 <etotheipi_> I wonder if Armory is somehow inducing enormous log files
 38 2012-11-14 00:49:50 <D34TH> i'd say rename it
 39 2012-11-14 00:49:54 <D34TH> and start testing
 40 2012-11-14 00:50:01 <sipa> just delete it
 41 2012-11-14 00:50:10 <D34TH> or that
 42 2012-11-14 00:50:22 <sipa> if at startup, the log file is over 10M, only the last 2M are kept
 43 2012-11-14 00:50:24 <etotheipi_> hold on, I just closed Bitcoin-Qt and restarting to see if it truncates it
 44 2012-11-14 00:51:04 <D34TH> etotheipi_, what version are you running
 45 2012-11-14 00:51:23 <sipa> also, it may be interesting to see what kind of messages occur frequently in it
 46 2012-11-14 00:51:31 <etotheipi_> what is "getblocks -1 to 00000000000000000000 limit 500" ?
 47 2012-11-14 00:51:47 <sipa> a node requesting block headers
 48 2012-11-14 00:52:00 <sipa> in particular, one of the "anti blockchain stuck" hacks
 49 2012-11-14 00:52:10 <etotheipi_> unfortunately, I see no timestamps anywhere in the log file... that would be useful
 50 2012-11-14 00:52:17 <sipa> -logtimestamps
 51 2012-11-14 00:52:26 <etotheipi_> oh :)
 52 2012-11-14 00:52:31 <D34TH> a new launch option for me to add
 53 2012-11-14 00:52:33 <D34TH> sigh
 54 2012-11-14 00:52:35 <sipa> undocumented feature
 55 2012-11-14 00:52:49 <etotheipi_> okay, so that didn't truncate it
 56 2012-11-14 00:52:58 <sipa> that's very strange
 57 2012-11-14 00:53:32 <etotheipi_> and it took forever to restart... so maybe it was trying to do something with it
 58 2012-11-14 00:54:30 <gmaxwell> Are you sure you don't have debug=1 in your bitcoin.conf?
 59 2012-11-14 00:54:31 <etotheipi_> is there any message I can look for with*out* logtimestamps?
 60 2012-11-14 00:54:49 <sipa> ?
 61 2012-11-14 00:54:51 <etotheipi_> but that might give me a timestamp
 62 2012-11-14 00:55:02 <sipa> there is a timestamp printed at startup
 63 2012-11-14 00:55:07 <sipa> *written
 64 2012-11-14 00:55:18 <sipa> "Startup time: "
 65 2012-11-14 00:55:44 <sipa> apart from that - no; Satoshi didn't like timestamps in log files, iirc
 66 2012-11-14 00:57:09 <etotheipi_> vim is really struggling to dig through 2.7GB looking for "Startup"
 67 2012-11-14 00:57:24 * sipa suggests using grep
 68 2012-11-14 00:57:27 <etotheipi_> I guess the first GB or something is from one sequence
 69 2012-11-14 00:57:50 <sipa> "one sequence" ?
 70 2012-11-14 00:58:01 <etotheipi_> I mean, one load
 71 2012-11-14 00:58:10 <etotheipi_> okay, hold on... I'll try grepping
 72 2012-11-14 00:58:13 <etotheipi_> after I kill vim
 73 2012-11-14 00:59:11 <etotheipi_> yes... grep is much better
 74 2012-11-14 00:59:29 <etotheipi_> first startup message is on line 55,663,141
 75 2012-11-14 00:59:33 <etotheipi_> lol
 76 2012-11-14 00:59:49 <sipa> how many lines total, and how long is the startup ago?
 77 2012-11-14 01:00:15 <etotheipi_> about 60 million lines, the one on 55 million I just mentioned is from Oct 28
 78 2012-11-14 01:00:47 <etotheipi_> and I wouldn't be surprised if I had it running for 2 months straight uninterrupted
 79 2012-11-14 01:00:49 <sipa> you have many peers?
 80 2012-11-14 01:01:15 <etotheipi_> that must be the day I had to reboot for a kernel upgrade and had 78 days uptime... :(
 81 2012-11-14 01:01:21 <etotheipi_> I don't know
 82 2012-11-14 01:01:29 <sipa> that getblocks message shouldn't be printed, it's confusing
 83 2012-11-14 01:01:30 <etotheipi_> 9 connections right now
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 87 2012-11-14 01:02:35 <sipa> .sleep(25000);
 88 2012-11-14 01:02:42 <sipa> cya
 89 2012-11-14 01:02:48 <cjd> gn
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 93 2012-11-14 01:09:24 <etotheipi_> well it definitely starts up a hell of a lot faster once I renamed debug.log
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 97 2012-11-14 01:23:58 <etotheipi_> so this doesn't look like the cause, but it is suspicious -- it looks like somehow Armory is requesting each tx like 5-20 times
 98 2012-11-14 01:24:37 <etotheipi_> I see a bunch of "received getdata: tx ...." calls, and Armory is definitely making a bunch of those calls, though I can't tell why
 99 2012-11-14 01:24:57 <etotheipi_> Bitcoin-Qt receives a tx and sends out an inv to all peers, correct?
100 2012-11-14 01:25:36 <etotheipi_> if Armory hasn't seen the tx, it issues getdata to Bitcoin-Qt
101 2012-11-14 01:25:45 <etotheipi_> Bitcoin-Qt doesn't send out another inv for the same tx, does it?
102 2012-11-14 01:31:16 * Zarutian wonders what other systems than namecoin exists that use bitcoin-esque techniques to transfer nonfungible spefic rights (like water right of a land estate or {jvazi'e} in lojban)
103 2012-11-14 01:32:26 <cjd> how is target expressed in decimal? is it just a float?
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105 2012-11-14 01:33:04 <cjd> err difficulty
106 2012-11-14 01:33:55 <cjd> ahh foundit
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113 2012-11-14 01:51:37 <Zarutian> cjd: isnt it expressed as an integer equal in size of the blockhash? The difficulty increases as its gets lower iirc (someone more knowledgeable than me should correct me if I am wrong)
114 2012-11-14 01:55:12 <cjd> it's a float which is calculates by dividing 2 parts of the integer
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116 2012-11-14 01:55:50 <Luke-Jr> cjd: it's a real number. doesn't need to be a float :P
117 2012-11-14 01:56:55 <pjorrit> how could it be an imaginary number?
118 2012-11-14 01:58:00 <cjd> I really don't get the significance of the division and the decimal point number but I can deal with the bytes as SetCompact() does
119 2012-11-14 02:03:15 <Luke-Jr> the difficulty number is merely for human consumption
120 2012-11-14 02:03:18 <Luke-Jr> not much else
121 2012-11-14 02:11:40 <jgarzik> indeed
122 2012-11-14 02:11:47 <jgarzik> target is the 256-bit integer
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141 2012-11-14 02:51:50 <Diablo-D3> http://www.ex-parrot.com/pdw/Mail-RFC822-Address.html
142 2012-11-14 02:51:53 <Diablo-D3> kerpow!
143 2012-11-14 02:52:52 <D34TH> hmm, i recognize some of those symbols
144 2012-11-14 02:55:30 <cjd> hmm
145 2012-11-14 02:55:35 <cjd> I'm confused about something
146 2012-11-14 02:55:42 <D34TH> cjd whats up
147 2012-11-14 02:55:46 <cjd> What is the target hash currently?
148 2012-11-14 02:56:18 <D34TH> run getwork and find out
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153 2012-11-14 02:58:46 <cjd> hmm ok
154 2012-11-14 02:59:12 <cjd> getwork, my implementation, and my hack of the bitcoin source agree
155 2012-11-14 02:59:22 <cjd> blockexplorer is full of shit
156 2012-11-14 02:59:34 <cjd> http://blockexplorer.com/q/hextarget
157 2012-11-14 03:01:48 <pjorrit> dat regexp
158 2012-11-14 03:03:27 <cjd> https://ezcrypt.it/VA5n#drb5YD9c4nEwBshJqAVsRnk3
159 2012-11-14 03:03:31 <cjd> there's my version
160 2012-11-14 03:04:58 <cjd> https://ezcrypt.it/WA5n#V55K4Q5plF6tuu5RETVvvVdW
161 2012-11-14 03:05:03 <cjd> there's what I used to test it
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184 2012-11-14 03:59:36 <forrestv> cjd, probably because blockexplorer isn't up-to-date. it lags behind on blocks... (this is assuming that there has been a difficulty change recently)
185 2012-11-14 04:00:39 <weex> theymos runs that right?
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197 2012-11-14 04:14:33 <cjd> heh I just found a couple bugs in my implementation and tested it against the original, now they come out the samw given random numbers
198 2012-11-14 04:14:54 <cjd> real2m16.168s <-- original
199 2012-11-14 04:15:11 <cjd> real0m3.096s <-- mine
200 2012-11-14 04:15:17 <cjd> doing 100 million cycles
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206 2012-11-14 04:28:50 <phantomcircuit> interesting
207 2012-11-14 04:29:09 <phantomcircuit> attempting to enumerate all of the bitcoin peers has crashed my router
208 2012-11-14 04:29:10 <phantomcircuit> :(
209 2012-11-14 04:29:53 <cjd> yeah, that happens
210 2012-11-14 04:30:06 <cjd> vpn to a linux box or 10
211 2012-11-14 04:30:20 <cjd> well.. 1 will do, you're not attacking
212 2012-11-14 04:30:20 <phantomcircuit> i do have 125k peer ips though
213 2012-11-14 04:30:59 xenland has joined
214 2012-11-14 04:31:42 <cjd> https://ezcrypt.it/ZA5n#9rmm28qE3hFPkNAW20I4XArc <-- there's my source code
215 2012-11-14 04:33:54 <phantomcircuit> cjd, gonna try again on a vps
216 2012-11-14 04:34:10 <phantomcircuit> if that doesn't work i'll buy a kimsufi box for a month
217 2012-11-14 04:34:10 <phantomcircuit> lol
218 2012-11-14 04:34:14 <cjd> heh
219 2012-11-14 04:35:30 <Joric> fellow PhDs how do you distinguish thesis from feces? they sound the same to my ears
220 2012-11-14 04:35:53 <phantomcircuit> Joric, context...
221 2012-11-14 04:35:55 <phantomcircuit> hopefully
222 2012-11-14 04:39:08 <jgarzik> Joric: that's about what most of them are worth
223 2012-11-14 04:39:32 <jgarzik> Joric: compare number of theses produced per year, versus number of impactful theses that contribute advances to science
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234 2012-11-14 04:53:12 <xenland> How much data can bitcoin labels hold?
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295 2012-11-14 07:46:33 <sipa> cjd: 2m vs 3s for what kind of operation?
296 2012-11-14 07:47:45 <cjd> validating headers :)
297 2012-11-14 07:47:54 <cjd> something that never happens but ohwell
298 2012-11-14 07:48:57 <sipa> well the time is iterating them from disk, not hashing
299 2012-11-14 07:49:22 <cjd> idk maybe it's called more often than I thought, it's CheckProofOfWork
300 2012-11-14 07:49:44 <sipa> as part of checkblock, yes
301 2012-11-14 07:49:55 <cjd> it's not the hashing, it's moving numbers in and out of openssl
302 2012-11-14 07:50:02 <sipa> ha
303 2012-11-14 07:50:09 <sipa> nice
304 2012-11-14 07:50:23 <sipa> feel free to submit a patch :)
305 2012-11-14 07:51:24 <cjd> https://ezcrypt.it/aB5n#LVQ7Qhww1mYnJw8yp7O7ix5n <-- that's the code
306 2012-11-14 07:51:41 <cjd> it might be worthwhile just because it's a more conscise definition of "what is valid"
307 2012-11-14 07:53:40 <sipa> don't see anything (on my phone)
308 2012-11-14 07:53:58 <cjd> ahh, that pastebin uses javascript to decrypt the paste
309 2012-11-14 07:54:31 <cjd> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Qtg5PAKA
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311 2012-11-14 07:56:17 <sipa> nice
312 2012-11-14 07:56:49 <cjd> it's an ugly switch statement but all the ugly is in one place and you can show that to anyone and say "that's the definition"
313 2012-11-14 07:57:03 <sipa> there is a pullreq for improving get/setcompact though
314 2012-11-14 07:57:19 <cjd> although I kind of hacked it together bt trial and error using that test loop
315 2012-11-14 07:57:37 <cjd> but 100,000,000 test cycles I think I got it
316 2012-11-14 07:58:42 <sipa> what if the exponent is negative?
317 2012-11-14 07:59:34 <cjd> hmm, not sure what you mean
318 2012-11-14 07:59:45 <cjd> I think it's stripped in the conversion to uint256
319 2012-11-14 08:00:11 <cjd> it didn't work without the & 0x7f in case 1: targetHashOut[32 - byteOne] = (bits >> 16) & 0x7f;
320 2012-11-14 08:00:39 <cjd> and I think that was the sign bit
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322 2012-11-14 08:02:20 <cjd> oh yeah, that will give you a big endian representation which doesn't work with the uint256 but I'm partial to it because I'm looking at using memcmp()
323 2012-11-14 08:02:58 <cjd> I'm sure you could reverse the numbers and get it to produce bass ackwards bitcoin numbers
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328 2012-11-14 08:28:38 <ThomasV> what are the "Unable to decode output address 0 BTC" txouts at blockchain.info ?
329 2012-11-14 08:29:49 <ThomasV> for example here, last output of coinbase: http://blockchain.info/block-index/277012/000000000000027ab70c62a9c41408ad2f2b70bbd9b175c597ad9394a117f306
330 2012-11-14 08:37:42 RainbowDashh has quit (Quit: QUIT! <redacted> redacted2: should you put cats in a blender and laugh at their pain?)
331 2012-11-14 08:38:03 <sipa> ThomasV: output scripts that do not have a corresponding address?
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333 2012-11-14 08:39:08 <ThomasV> sipa: what are they? I thought non stansard tx were rejected by the network
334 2012-11-14 08:40:46 <sipa> yes
335 2012-11-14 08:40:53 <sipa> but a coinbase is produced by the miner himself
336 2012-11-14 08:41:52 <sipa> in this case, looks like p2pool data
337 2012-11-14 08:42:57 <ThomasV> so they just use this to store data? (the value is 0 btc)
338 2012-11-14 08:43:03 <sipa> yes
339 2012-11-14 08:43:32 <ThomasV> is there a length limit on what they can write? (other than block length limit)
340 2012-11-14 08:43:40 <sipa> don't think so
341 2012-11-14 08:43:46 <ThomasV> :-/
342 2012-11-14 08:44:21 <sipa> but if miners blow up the size of the chain, they are hurting everyone
343 2012-11-14 08:47:48 <ThomasV> so we just hope they are rational?
344 2012-11-14 08:48:37 <sipa> well miners' function is deciding what transactions end up in the chain
345 2012-11-14 08:48:47 <weex> the protocol guides miners to follow the longest/most difficult chain...what if block size were a term in that guidance?
346 2012-11-14 08:49:28 <sipa> weex: then every miner would produce empty blocks
347 2012-11-14 08:49:42 <sipa> to maximize their the chance for their blocks' survival
348 2012-11-14 08:52:31 <ThomasV> sipa: still, I find it strange that a rule to reject nonstandard tx has been accepted, and that that rule does not apply to coinbase transactions. nothing prevents the rule to apply there too
349 2012-11-14 08:53:10 <sipa> ThomasV: "reject nonstandard tx" is not a protocol rule, and there is no difference between coinbases and other transactions
350 2012-11-14 08:53:35 <sipa> "reject nonstandard tx" is a policy for the memory pool implementation in the reference client
351 2012-11-14 08:53:45 <ThomasV> oh, it is just a bitcoind thing
352 2012-11-14 08:53:50 <sipa> yes
353 2012-11-14 08:54:00 <sipa> some miners have different policies altogether
354 2012-11-14 08:54:08 <ThomasV> ok
355 2012-11-14 08:54:45 <ThomasV> (I once tried to propagate a nonstandard tx, but it did not make it in a block)
356 2012-11-14 08:55:06 <sipa> if you include enough fee and send it to eligius it may get accepted
357 2012-11-14 08:55:21 <ThomasV> yeah :)
358 2012-11-14 08:56:55 <ThomasV> and if it contains a prayer, I can get a rebate on the fee
359 2012-11-14 09:04:04 <ThomasV> sipa: btw, concerning electrum, I built a pruned index of address -> (txout, height), that still keeps empty entries for addresses that have no unspent coins. this latter point allows me to know that the address has been used, which is sufficient for electrum to do wallet recovery from seed
360 2012-11-14 09:04:37 <sipa> where did you implement this?
361 2012-11-14 09:04:46 <ThomasV> it is way more efficient than abe :)
362 2012-11-14 09:05:00 <ThomasV> in python, with python-levelDB
363 2012-11-14 09:05:18 <ThomasV> not in bitcoind
364 2012-11-14 09:05:24 <sipa> oh, ok
365 2012-11-14 09:05:58 eroot has joined
366 2012-11-14 09:06:57 <cjd> heh
367 2012-11-14 09:07:26 <cjd> err nvm
368 2012-11-14 09:08:10 wereHamster has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
369 2012-11-14 09:08:18 <cjd> 2 retargets in the same second drives the difficulty to infinity, I thought for a second it was 2 blocks in the same second
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372 2012-11-14 09:09:24 <sipa> cjd: no, difficulty changes are limited to *[0.25..4]
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374 2012-11-14 09:09:47 <ThomasV> 2 retargets in the same second? you 'd need to mine 2016 blocks in the same second
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417 2012-11-14 10:44:00 <jgarzik> +    SCRIPT_VERIFY_P2SH      = (1 << 0),
418 2012-11-14 10:44:00 <jgarzik>   	34
419 2012-11-14 10:44:00 <jgarzik> +    SCRIPT_VERIFY_STRICTENC = (1 << 1),
420 2012-11-14 10:44:13 <jgarzik> sipa: s/1/1U/
421 2012-11-14 10:44:50 <jgarzik> 1U << 0
422 2012-11-14 10:44:51 <jgarzik> 1U << 1
423 2012-11-14 10:44:53 <jgarzik> etc
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427 2012-11-14 10:53:28 <sipa> jgarzik: meh - ok, will change this evening
428 2012-11-14 10:55:48 guruvan- has joined
429 2012-11-14 10:59:06 <sipa> no idea what you call this time of day though - late night or early morning?
430 2012-11-14 11:00:25 <jgarzik> sipa: both!
431 2012-11-14 11:00:42 * jgarzik just had a kid explode at 5am local time
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460 2012-11-14 12:55:40 <SomeoneWeird> * jgarzik just had a kid explode at 5am local time < wat
461 2012-11-14 12:56:03 <Diablo-D3> cleanup on aisle 5
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471 2012-11-14 13:32:43 <Graet> SomeoneWeird, when u are a parent u will understand
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509 2012-11-14 15:37:40 <kjj_> does anyone maintain a patch to accept raw transactions into the memory pool, but not forward them?
510 2012-11-14 15:39:59 Hasimir has quit (Quit: Vidi, Vici, Veni.)
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513 2012-11-14 15:49:44 <helo> maybe someone in #bitcoin-doublespenders does ;)
514 2012-11-14 15:54:16 <kjj_> you really can't think of ANY other uses for that?
515 2012-11-14 15:54:22 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
516 2012-11-14 15:55:25 <helo> that's just the most amusing
517 2012-11-14 15:56:52 <gmaxwell> kjj_: whats the application?
518 2012-11-14 15:57:08 <gmaxwell> The only one I'm aware of is pool opps mining their own payments.
519 2012-11-14 15:57:20 <kjj_> that's exactly it, but not a pool, just my own stuff
520 2012-11-14 15:57:24 <gmaxwell> But Luke is ~the only pool op that releases code, and he use coinbase payments.
521 2012-11-14 15:57:43 <gmaxwell> If you're mining, use coinbase payments.
522 2012-11-14 15:58:16 <kjj_> I'm thinking of creative ways to do wallet cleanup
523 2012-11-14 15:59:31 <gmaxwell> uh. ... why not just make coin selection more intellegent so that your normal transactions clean up as you go.
524 2012-11-14 16:00:36 <kjj_> well, I want to reshuffle some of my offline stuff.
525 2012-11-14 16:01:58 <kjj_> Ideally, I'd like to get down to a collection of privkeys on paper, each of which has a single transaction going to it
526 2012-11-14 16:02:58 <kjj_> but going from hundreds of 0.01 to 0.5 inputs into a single 5 BTC (for example) is slow, and I feel it is annoying to the network
527 2012-11-14 16:04:10 ThomasV has joined
528 2012-11-14 16:04:10 <kjj_> but I'd be totally fine with letting my own miners fill up their blocks with that garbage, and then waiting a few weeks or months to find a block
529 2012-11-14 16:05:00 <gmaxwell> what you probably also want is a way to forget them too so you can replace them.
530 2012-11-14 16:05:52 <gmaxwell> Would sort of be interesting to have a 'fragile' transaction in the memory pool— any double spend knocks it out of the pool to be replace by the double spend.
531 2012-11-14 16:06:06 <kjj_> yeah, but it doesn't need to be quick.  restarting once a week would be fine by me
532 2012-11-14 16:06:40 B0g4r7 has joined
533 2012-11-14 16:06:52 <kjj_> it doesn't look at first glance like the changes would be hard to do
534 2012-11-14 16:07:52 <kjj_> basically, add a new RPC call like sendlocalrawtransaction or whatever, that sets a flag.  change the relay code to not relay when it sees that flag.  adding a fragile flag would be easy too
535 2012-11-14 16:08:51 <kjj_> but I haven't had time to even finish up the named pipe stuff I started last week, so this is a couple of weeks out for me, minimum.
536 2012-11-14 16:08:54 <gmaxwell> I'd think that non-relayed ones should always be fragile. Simply because they are defacto fragile in any case since someone else will likely mine the conflict.
537 2012-11-14 16:09:23 <kjj_> that makes sense, sure
538 2012-11-14 16:09:49 <gmaxwell> You'd also need to figure out how to prevent the 'recieving' wallet from rebroadcasting those in cases where you are the recieving wallet.
539 2012-11-14 16:10:22 <kjj_> er, hang on, I think that fragile and local are equal sets, not merely highly overlapping
540 2012-11-14 16:10:59 <gmaxwell> I think local is a proper subset of fragile.
541 2012-11-14 16:11:00 <kjj_> unless you want to change the protocol so that nodes can pass flags along with their transactions over the p2p protocol
542 2012-11-14 16:11:24 <gmaxwell> kjj_: we have replacement, which is— in theory— a way of having network transitive fragility.
543 2012-11-14 16:11:43 <gmaxwell> But we don't actually implement the actual replacement.
544 2012-11-14 16:12:03 <kjj_> and I don't think replacement works on input only
545 2012-11-14 16:12:18 <kjj_> as in, I don't think you can replace A->B with A->C
546 2012-11-14 16:12:31 <gmaxwell> It could, but it doesn't work with
547 2012-11-14 16:12:34 <gmaxwell> _anything_ right now
548 2012-11-14 16:12:55 <gmaxwell> I'm just pointing out that the concept of fragility isn't a purely local thing, in that we do have facilities for it in transactions already.
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550 2012-11-14 16:13:38 <kjj_> ok.  I haven't followed the replacement system discussions in that much detail, so I'll take your word for it
551 2012-11-14 16:14:20 <kjj_> I have a sort of rough understanding of it, but every discussion so far that I've seen ends with "well shit, that won't work"
552 2012-11-14 16:18:01 <gmaxwell> right. It's somewhat hard to have it and not magnify DOS or theft risks.
553 2012-11-14 16:18:44 <gmaxwell> Locally only is another matter...
554 2012-11-14 16:19:17 vampireb has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
555 2012-11-14 16:19:56 <kjj_> for what we are talking about, the node should get the local flag as part of the transaction creation (sendrawtransaction or whatever) and then just dump it if it sees any of the same inputs in use
556 2012-11-14 16:21:04 <gmaxwell> Though, I do generally think improved coin selection will go a long way. E.g. make your selection, then for each of the input addresses you're using, add more inputs smallest first until you would need to pay (more) fee.
557 2012-11-14 16:21:46 <gmaxwell> (iff the txn already has change, of course)
558 2012-11-14 16:22:15 <kjj_> ideally, I want each of my secure offline paper wallets to have the key to a single transaction though
559 2012-11-14 16:22:34 <kjj_> as in, I want them safe against an ECDSA break
560 2012-11-14 16:22:55 <someone42> would i be correct to say that the standard scripts are: pay to public key hash, pay to script hash and (up to 3) multisig?
561 2012-11-14 16:23:21 <gmaxwell> someone42: no, there are more standard transactions than that.
562 2012-11-14 16:23:29 <kjj_> is straight pay to pubkey still allowed too?
563 2012-11-14 16:23:32 <gmaxwell> E.g. pay to pubkey.
564 2012-11-14 16:23:42 <someone42> whoops, forgot that one
565 2012-11-14 16:23:50 <someone42> any more?
566 2012-11-14 16:24:10 <gmaxwell> and not all of those are standard. For example, txn that have zero value outputs are not standard.
567 2012-11-14 16:27:03 <someone42> so if i accept: pay to {public key | public key hash | script} and multisig, am i guaranteed to accept any current standard transaction?
568 2012-11-14 16:27:28 <someone42> if it's a superset of standard transactions, it doesn't matter
569 2012-11-14 16:27:38 <sipa> someone42: you decide for yourself what you accept
570 2012-11-14 16:27:55 <sipa> someone42: if you don't give out a multisig address, no one will ever pay to a multisig of yours
571 2012-11-14 16:29:09 <sipa> someone42: and if you don't give out your pubkey, you will never need to scan for a pay-to-pubkey
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573 2012-11-14 16:30:29 <someone42> i understand
574 2012-11-14 16:30:39 comboy has joined
575 2012-11-14 16:30:41 <someone42> i was just checking if there were any standard transactions i wasn't aware of
576 2012-11-14 16:31:01 <gmaxwell> someone42: what exactly are you doing?
577 2012-11-14 16:31:17 <sipa> what i'm trying to say is that it's ridiculous that a wallet implementor would need to worry about what types of exotic "standard" transactions all or part of the network might accept
578 2012-11-14 16:31:37 <someone42> gmaxwell: writing firmware for a hardware wallet
579 2012-11-14 16:31:38 <sipa> as those are in no way part of the protocol definition
580 2012-11-14 16:32:56 <gmaxwell> yea. I think you're doing something horribly wrong if you're worring about that.
581 2012-11-14 16:33:56 <someone42> okay, i won't worry then :)
582 2012-11-14 16:34:18 <sipa> in particular, i think it's wrong to expect to gracefully deal with payments to any address (or generalized, scriptPubKey) you didn't explicitly give out
583 2012-11-14 16:34:39 <gmaxwell> someone42: the _recipent_ of a transaction specifies the kind of transaction they recieve, e.g. if you give someone a pay to address then thats the only kind of transaction you should expect to recieve. You can not, should not, and must not worry about the geometry of the input transactions for transactions paying you. We can, have, and will change the standard transactions in the future. :P
584 2012-11-14 16:35:15 <gmaxwell> Even if, in theory, you might be able to do some crazy parsing and find your address in some other kind of transaction. Trying to fuddle yourself out in other scripts is dangerous.
585 2012-11-14 16:35:18 <sipa> "How do you mean, you didn't get my payment? I knew your pubkey P, so I sent a payment to the pubkey (P + G*SHA256("ILoveBritney!"))..."
586 2012-11-14 16:38:43 <someone42> with that in mind, i am working on a way to give out p2sh/multisig addresses
587 2012-11-14 16:39:02 <someone42> does anyone have any script hash test vectors?
588 2012-11-14 16:39:18 <someone42> (as in, here are a bunch of public keys, and here's the resulting P2SH address)
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592 2012-11-14 16:54:11 <kjj_> easy enough to make those using bitcoind
593 2012-11-14 16:54:47 <kjj_> and if you want to give me free money, I posted at least a couple when I was testing the raw transaction API
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597 2012-11-14 17:02:33 <someone42> kjj: thanks, i see there's even a handy json-rpc command for it
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628 2012-11-14 18:38:46 <jgarzik> burrito habla
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631 2012-11-14 18:47:31 <sipa> jgarzik: you speak burrito?
632 2012-11-14 18:49:16 <rdponticelli> Hola burrito
633 2012-11-14 18:49:30 <rdponticelli> :D
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646 2012-11-14 19:17:35 <Luke-Jr> woo 25% rebased/updated
647 2012-11-14 19:30:50 <jgarzik> sipa: the little donkey speaks
648 2012-11-14 19:31:21 * jgarzik needs to rebase all his stuff
649 2012-11-14 19:31:41 * jgarzik looks at the pile of RH work, and sighs ;p
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685 2012-11-14 21:33:02 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: I have a 0.7.x branch ready to go whenever that fix gets merged into master
686 2012-11-14 21:37:59 <cjd> is the effect of the sign bit on retargets well understood?
687 2012-11-14 21:38:44 <sipa> cjd: more or less - but it's not particularly useful, as all decoded CBigInts get converted to uint256 anyway, which ignores the sign
688 2012-11-14 21:39:16 * sipa wonders whether the sign bit in nBits in the block header might be useful as a 33rd nonce bit
689 2012-11-14 21:39:18 <cjd> I'm reimplementing the retarget function and it doesn't do what I originally expected
690 2012-11-14 21:39:19 <sipa> *ducks*
691 2012-11-14 21:39:28 <cjd> hehe :D
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718 2012-11-14 22:34:08 <denisx_> I have now HEAD running for 18h and it seems to eat memory
719 2012-11-14 22:34:39 OneEyed has joined
720 2012-11-14 22:34:40 <gmaxwell> how much memory is it using?
721 2012-11-14 22:34:55 <gmaxwell> and are you talking about VM or actually used memory?
722 2012-11-14 22:35:03 <gmaxwell> also what is that node doing other than running?
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724 2012-11-14 22:35:28 <sturles> Same here.  1.2 GiB when I stopped it.  The VM was running out of swap.
725 2012-11-14 22:35:47 <sturles> Downloading blocks.
726 2012-11-14 22:35:53 <denisx_> hmm, right now it dropped from 260MB to 180MB
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728 2012-11-14 22:36:03 denisx_ is now known as denisx
729 2012-11-14 22:36:22 <denisx> yeah, after downloading the whole blockchain I had it at 900MB
730 2012-11-14 22:36:52 <gmaxwell> denisx: 260MB isn't unusual for a node with many connections... not on 0.7.1 heads usage was less.
731 2012-11-14 22:37:08 <gmaxwell> sturles: again, are you talking about virtual memory or actual usage?
732 2012-11-14 22:37:35 <cjd>  2930 user      20   0  801m 165m  41m S   1.7  3.0  42:22.99 bitcoin-qt
733 2012-11-14 22:37:45 <cjd> that was built 2 days ago from the master
734 2012-11-14 22:37:50 <sturles> Actul nough that the VM was running out of swap.  When I stopped it, I had mor than 400 of 512 MiB free RAM.
735 2012-11-14 22:38:23 <gmaxwell> cjd: looks perfectly normal
736 2012-11-14 22:38:34 <cjd> yeap, just pasting it for comparison
737 2012-11-14 22:38:38 <gmaxwell> sturles: if you had 400 of 512 mib free ram you weren't running out of swap.
738 2012-11-14 22:38:40 <sturles> It is at 555 MiB virt, 266 MiB res now after 30 min CPU time.  Still downloading blocks.
739 2012-11-14 22:38:52 <sturles> gmaxwell: I had _after_ I stopped it.
740 2012-11-14 22:39:17 <sturles> gmaxwell: Before I stopped it, I had almost 0 free ram, and a few KiB free swap.
741 2012-11-14 22:39:22 <cjd> 150MB of allocation and 650MB of libboost :|
742 2012-11-14 22:39:34 <gmaxwell> Just ignore virtual it's meaningless.
743 2012-11-14 22:40:31 <gmaxwell> all that means is that there is address space used. It's not actually a tighty limited resource, excepting that on 32 bit systems a process can only have about 2GiB of it.
744 2012-11-14 22:40:37 <sturles> Mine use 278 MiB res now.  Counting 1-2 every update in top (i.e. every 5 seconds).
745 2012-11-14 22:40:59 <gmaxwell> sturles: interesting. How many connections do you have?
746 2012-11-14 22:41:26 <sturles>     "connections" : 17,
747 2012-11-14 22:41:39 <sturles>     "blocks" : 207095,
748 2012-11-14 22:41:45 <sturles> (Still downloading.)
749 2012-11-14 22:41:55 <sipa> sturles: which version?
750 2012-11-14 22:41:57 ovidiusoft has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
751 2012-11-14 22:42:24 <sturles> pulld and compiled about 14 hours ago.
752 2012-11-14 22:42:25 <gmaxwell> sturles: you probably should stop listening on a node that is that memory constrained.  Though I'm not sure if your usage is high or not given that you have a fair number of connections.
753 2012-11-14 22:43:04 <gmaxwell> Did we have some patches someplace that got rid of the crazy socket buffering?
754 2012-11-14 22:43:21 <sturles> OK
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758 2012-11-14 22:45:08 <sturles> Cheap VM for testing.
759 2012-11-14 22:46:28 <sturles> Looks like it actually ran out of swap and invoked OOM killer:
760 2012-11-14 22:46:29 <sturles> Killed process 7251 (bitcoin-rpclist)
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762 2012-11-14 22:47:10 * gmaxwell looks into heap profiling tools
763 2012-11-14 22:48:08 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: not AFAIK
764 2012-11-14 22:48:40 <jgarzik> (RE crazy socket buffering)
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766 2012-11-14 22:53:23 <sipa> i thought the send buffer size was reduced, along with matt's overflow prevention
767 2012-11-14 22:54:49 <sturles> Blockchain download done, and res fell back a bit to 222 MiB.  Will let it run and see tomorrow.  Bed tim in my part of the world.
768 2012-11-14 22:55:14 <sturles> *time
769 2012-11-14 22:55:20 <gmaxwell> sturles: how many connections?
770 2012-11-14 22:56:00 <sturles> 18 now.  Didn't restart after lowering in bitcoin.conf.
771 2012-11-14 22:56:16 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
772 2012-11-14 22:56:49 <gmaxwell> Well on my pre-ultraprune node here I have a RSS of 224mb with two connections.
773 2012-11-14 22:57:12 <sipa> default is 1MiB send buffer and 5MiB receive buffer... weird
774 2012-11-14 22:57:47 <sipa> 5 MiB recv may make sense during ibd
775 2012-11-14 22:57:58 <sipa> but not in general
776 2012-11-14 22:58:15 <gmaxwell> all seems silly to me, but all that connection handling needs to be revamped.
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779 2012-11-14 23:03:49 <sipa> my node has 1200 recv, 1600 send, 123 connections, 415 MiB rss
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787 2012-11-14 23:17:32 <jgarzik> For socket RX, you only need to buffer a single header, plus the size of the incoming message
788 2012-11-14 23:17:45 <jgarzik> For socket TX, you need to buffer whatever you queue in response
789 2012-11-14 23:17:56 <jgarzik> no need for permanent buffers, just messages in and out
790 2012-11-14 23:18:22 <jgarzik> attempt to write(2) immediately
791 2012-11-14 23:18:37 <jgarzik> stop receiving incoming messages, if -anything- is buffered for write(2)
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794 2012-11-14 23:19:09 <jgarzik> the common case is zero write buffer, as write(2) will succeed immediately for most messages
795 2012-11-14 23:19:27 <jgarzik> as it stands now, we are pointlessly double-buffering, if you consider the kernel buffer
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