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   6 2012-11-16 00:09:30 <jgarzik> sipa: think about how small the requesting side of IBD is
   7 2012-11-16 00:09:48 <jgarzik> sipa: and you're still looking at the kernel socket buffer (~128k) containing those requests
   8 2012-11-16 00:10:42 <jgarzik> sipa: that's what the pullreq does -- decides not to read, when the send buffer is over some threshold (== kernel socket buffer full)
   9 2012-11-16 00:11:24 <phantomcircuit> what's the purpose of the AddRef for CNode?
  10 2012-11-16 00:15:53 <sipa> phantomcircuit: individual nodes are refcounted-locked, so there's no need for a lock on vNodes when processing a single node's io
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  12 2012-11-16 00:16:36 <phantomcircuit> wat
  13 2012-11-16 00:18:41 <sipa> so threads can be busy working on one node, while another thread can modify the vNodes vector
  14 2012-11-16 00:19:08 freakazoid has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  15 2012-11-16 00:19:18 <sipa> without risking deleting that node while it's still being worked on
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  19 2012-11-16 00:22:08 <sipa> jgarzik: but why is the kernel buffer size (which is probably very application-specific) the optimal choice?
  20 2012-11-16 00:22:19 <sipa> s/application/operating system/
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  22 2012-11-16 00:30:09 <phantomcircuit> fInbound
  23 2012-11-16 00:30:20 <phantomcircuit> this seems to be a count of the number of inbound connections
  24 2012-11-16 00:30:26 <sipa> where?
  25 2012-11-16 00:30:29 <phantomcircuit> but it's not a static as i'd expect
  26 2012-11-16 00:30:39 <phantomcircuit> each CNode in vNodes
  27 2012-11-16 00:30:54 <phantomcircuit> it's incremented on each CNode when a connection inbound is accepted
  28 2012-11-16 00:30:57 <sipa> fInBound is a bool, whether or not the connection to that node is inbound
  29 2012-11-16 00:31:17 <phantomcircuit> oh right
  30 2012-11-16 00:31:24 <phantomcircuit> sigh not reading codes right
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  32 2012-11-16 00:31:33 <phantomcircuit> should pay more attention :)
  33 2012-11-16 00:32:40 <phantomcircuit> net.cpp:814 there seems to be a block of code that's in {} but where that isn't necessary
  34 2012-11-16 00:32:43 <phantomcircuit> am i missing something
  35 2012-11-16 00:34:05 <sipa> it encloses locking of cs_vNodes?
  36 2012-11-16 00:34:23 <phantomcircuit> yeah
  37 2012-11-16 00:34:37 <sipa> so it needs to be encloses?
  38 2012-11-16 00:34:49 <sipa> or we'd keep the lock on  cs_vNodes forever
  39 2012-11-16 00:35:02 <sipa> well, not forever, but longer than necessary
  40 2012-11-16 00:35:20 <phantomcircuit> ah i see the lock gets released in the destructor
  41 2012-11-16 00:35:23 <phantomcircuit> k got it
  42 2012-11-16 00:35:29 Gladamas has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  43 2012-11-16 00:35:35 <phantomcircuit> this is going to a process of me asking stupid questions
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  54 2012-11-16 00:50:30 <phantomcircuit> ok so 128 simultaneous block downloads is more than enough to peg bitcoind
  55 2012-11-16 00:51:20 <phantomcircuit> but even totally cpu bound here it's only hitting 500 context switches/second
  56 2012-11-16 00:51:46 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, i doubt eliminated context switches will ahve much effect
  57 2012-11-16 00:52:27 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: not sure what you're referring to?
  58 2012-11-16 00:52:44 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: nothing is eliminating context switches...  some proposals might add some
  59 2012-11-16 00:52:58 <phantomcircuit> the recv vs copy stuff
  60 2012-11-16 00:54:32 <phantomcircuit> also i should note that with 120 concurrent HEAD (ie leveldb) nodes all on the same system with conventional hdds im already at block 16k
  61 2012-11-16 00:57:28 <jgarzik> sipa: <shrug>  can add a "if (vSend.size() < 64k) FD_SET(read fd)" check if you'd like, though I don't see that it would make much difference.
  62 2012-11-16 00:57:39 <jgarzik> sipa: socket buffer size is indeed OS-specific
  63 2012-11-16 00:57:53 <jgarzik> sipa: >= 64k on all but ancient Windows
  64 2012-11-16 00:58:03 <phantomcircuit> and changes on linux based on pressure
  65 2012-11-16 00:58:35 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: correct.  auto-tune
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  69 2012-11-16 00:59:41 <jgarzik> In general, if bitcoin is sending a lot of data to socket X, it does not have a big need to immediately read a lot of data from socket X.  And vice versa.
  70 2012-11-16 00:59:46 <phantomcircuit> so with 128 connections absolutely hammering this 0.6.3 it's only getting to 500MiB resident memory
  71 2012-11-16 01:01:55 <phantomcircuit> i can only assume 0.7.x would use even less
  72 2012-11-16 01:02:31 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: correct
  73 2012-11-16 01:02:54 <phantomcircuit> so it seems to me that instead of trying to come up with a perfect solution for slot filling (hehe)
  74 2012-11-16 01:03:04 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: though certain commands can cause additional memory usage
  75 2012-11-16 01:03:21 <phantomcircuit> instead a system which tries to keep a fuzzy count of how expensive connections are and then specify the maxconnections based on total "cost"
  76 2012-11-16 01:03:29 <phantomcircuit> would be a better approach maybe
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  78 2012-11-16 01:04:07 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: FWIW I'm not trying to solve your problem specifically.  And yes, that seems like a fair metric.
  79 2012-11-16 01:05:06 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: If you want to look at something, fill the memory pool.......
  80 2012-11-16 01:05:13 <jgarzik> that's unbounded AFAIK
  81 2012-11-16 01:05:45 <phantomcircuit> that's relatively easy to fix though :)
  82 2012-11-16 01:05:49 <phantomcircuit> not as much fun
  83 2012-11-16 01:06:01 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: what's a good fix?  :)
  84 2012-11-16 01:06:10 <jgarzik> How many is "too many"?  :)
  85 2012-11-16 01:06:26 <phantomcircuit> limit the pool to the number that will fit in a block
  86 2012-11-16 01:06:36 <phantomcircuit> throw away the least interesting transactions
  87 2012-11-16 01:06:42 <phantomcircuit> obviously keeping ones that pay to self
  88 2012-11-16 01:07:29 Gladamas has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  89 2012-11-16 01:07:37 <phantomcircuit> ok so note to self
  90 2012-11-16 01:07:58 <phantomcircuit> load average of 90 is enough to make the cfq scheduler start to screw up
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  92 2012-11-16 01:12:51 <phantomcircuit> ok well first step
  93 2012-11-16 01:12:58 <phantomcircuit> reverse the banned and maxconnections check
  94 2012-11-16 01:12:59 <phantomcircuit> heh
  95 2012-11-16 01:16:28 <sipa> interesting: even with signature caching, ~ 1/2 of the time spent in CreateNewBlock is script validation
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  98 2012-11-16 01:18:21 <Luke-Jr> sipa: like the validity check, or is it doing verification when it builds the block too?
  99 2012-11-16 01:18:44 <sipa> Luke-Jr: it does verification in both cases in current HEAD
 100 2012-11-16 01:18:57 <Luke-Jr> ugly :<
 101 2012-11-16 01:19:05 <sipa> at least one is redundant, but imho both are
 102 2012-11-16 01:19:19 eoss has joined
 103 2012-11-16 01:19:35 <sipa> i added some benchmarking code, and disabled script verification during creation (but not during validation):
 104 2012-11-16 01:19:37 <Luke-Jr> sipa: I feel safer as a miner with the final check, though I suppose it's less important when BIP 23 proposals are merged
 105 2012-11-16 01:19:59 <Luke-Jr> which I just rebased and addressed your/gavin's suggestions
 106 2012-11-16 01:20:21 <sipa> CreateNewBlock(): 0.004052s creation time, 0.006538s check time
 107 2012-11-16 01:20:34 <Luke-Jr> otoh, miners which don't mess with the block contents might skip proposing
 108 2012-11-16 01:20:51 <sipa> for a 79kB block with 224 transactions
 109 2012-11-16 01:23:25 <phantomcircuit> Sleep(10);
 110 2012-11-16 01:23:27 <phantomcircuit> that's ms right
 111 2012-11-16 01:23:38 <sipa> yes
 112 2012-11-16 01:23:46 <sipa> very clear code
 113 2012-11-16 01:23:56 <sipa> sleep(10): 10s; Sleep(10): 10ms
 114 2012-11-16 01:24:01 <phantomcircuit> that's actually a long time
 115 2012-11-16 01:24:12 <sipa> you have no patience
 116 2012-11-16 01:24:21 <phantomcircuit> hehe
 117 2012-11-16 01:25:06 <sipa> Luke-Jr: there is no way a transaction with a wrong script can enter the memory pool
 118 2012-11-16 01:25:32 <sipa> Luke-Jr: there are cases where the mempool contains conflicting transactions, but that is checked in any way during block construction
 119 2012-11-16 01:25:48 <sipa> the fact that its scripts are valid is a static boolean property of the transaction
 120 2012-11-16 01:26:52 <Luke-Jr> sipa: perhaps.
 121 2012-11-16 01:27:05 <Luke-Jr> sipa: but on the off-chance my memory flips a bit, I'd rather not lose $500 for it :P
 122 2012-11-16 01:27:10 <sipa> ha
 123 2012-11-16 01:27:13 <phantomcircuit> how does a blockchain re-org effect the memory pool?
 124 2012-11-16 01:27:30 da2ce7 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 125 2012-11-16 01:28:22 <sipa> phantomcircuit: disconnected transactions get considered for entering the mempool; reconnected transactions are removed
 126 2012-11-16 01:28:56 stamit has joined
 127 2012-11-16 01:28:56 stamit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 128 2012-11-16 01:31:08 <sipa> Luke-Jr: calculate the chance fora bitflip times the loss, and calculate how much the extra latency of createnewblock costs you in increased stale rates :)
 129 2012-11-16 01:31:41 <sipa> 788 tx:
 130 2012-11-16 01:31:43 <sipa> CreateNewBlock(): 0.012756s creation time, 0.055265s check time
 131 2012-11-16 01:33:39 RainbowDashh has joined
 132 2012-11-16 01:34:45 toffoo has joined
 133 2012-11-16 01:35:09 toffoo is now known as Guest79319
 134 2012-11-16 01:35:19 <phantomcircuit> 0-50k in 52 seconds
 135 2012-11-16 01:35:32 stamit has joined
 136 2012-11-16 01:37:05 <Luke-Jr> sipa: I don't wait on CreateNewBlock for block changes.
 137 2012-11-16 01:37:19 <phantomcircuit> sipa, i believe reducing the sleep time from 10ms to 1ms will have a measurable impact over low latency connections
 138 2012-11-16 01:37:32 <phantomcircuit> ie it wont matter for most people but for some people it will
 139 2012-11-16 01:38:43 <sipa> Luke-Jr: ok, calculate the loss in *fees* because of the increased latency of CreateNewBlock, vs the cost*chance of a bitflip in the wrong place
 140 2012-11-16 01:38:50 <sipa> Luke-Jr: i think it's still worth it :p
 141 2012-11-16 01:39:03 <Luke-Jr> what fees?
 142 2012-11-16 01:39:14 <gmaxwell> exactly.
 143 2012-11-16 01:39:18 <phantomcircuit> actually my singular test showed a 7% speed up with 1ms sleep over a <1ms latency network
 144 2012-11-16 01:39:48 <sipa> gmaxwell: exactly what?
 145 2012-11-16 01:40:24 <stamit> exactly = giving you positive pats to think of him as a friend
 146 2012-11-16 01:40:41 <gmaxwell> ah, you're arguing for not checking. meh.
 147 2012-11-16 01:41:05 BitDev has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 148 2012-11-16 01:41:12 <Luke-Jr> sipa: anyhow, like I said, no argument from me when proposals are supported
 149 2012-11-16 01:41:16 <phantomcircuit> is there already a map of the ip a node is connected with so i dont have to count multiple connections?
 150 2012-11-16 01:41:18 <Luke-Jr> then you get the best of both
 151 2012-11-16 01:41:20 <gmaxwell> sipa: that latency of GBT can be hidden by mining an empty block for the first call after a new block.
 152 2012-11-16 01:41:51 <gmaxwell> sipa: all you lose is fees with very low odds and fees are currently non-existant.
 153 2012-11-16 01:41:51 <sipa> gmaxwell: resulting in less fees
 154 2012-11-16 01:42:29 <gmaxwell> You're probably right that a straight expected value analysis favors not checking.
 155 2012-11-16 01:42:46 <gmaxwell> Though good thing we don't apply it generally, as there would be no rule enforcement. :P
 156 2012-11-16 01:42:53 <phantomcircuit> he's technically right
 157 2012-11-16 01:42:54 <sipa> haha
 158 2012-11-16 01:42:57 <phantomcircuit> the best kind of right
 159 2012-11-16 01:42:58 <Eliel> well, ideally, you shouldn't have any transactions to put in the block right after one is found :P
 160 2012-11-16 01:43:02 <Luke-Jr> sipa: FWIW, I added the block check because we started to change the block assembly code.
 161 2012-11-16 01:43:11 <Luke-Jr> sipa: the main idea is to avoid any new bugs from losing $
 162 2012-11-16 01:43:34 <gmaxwell> The only time it really matters if GBT is fast is right after a new block on the network, any other time being slow and checking is prudent.
 163 2012-11-16 01:43:36 <Luke-Jr> and that code is still in flux
 164 2012-11-16 01:44:32 one_zero has joined
 165 2012-11-16 01:44:35 <sipa> Luke-Jr: assuming all transactions in the block come from the memory pool, I don't see how the crappiest block assembly code could result in an invalid block being accepted by a script-check-skipping validation step
 166 2012-11-16 01:44:53 <gmaxwell> sipa: e.g. hit the maximum size and drop something.
 167 2012-11-16 01:45:01 <gmaxwell> then you could end up with a failed dependency.
 168 2012-11-16 01:45:06 <Luke-Jr> sipa: for example, putting a dependent transaction before one it depends on
 169 2012-11-16 01:45:20 <sipa> Luke-Jr, gmaxwell: both your examples would be caught
 170 2012-11-16 01:45:31 <sipa> i'm not arguing for removing the validation step
 171 2012-11-16 01:45:34 <Luke-Jr> oh, script-check-skipping only
 172 2012-11-16 01:45:41 <sipa> only for skipping the script validation in it
 173 2012-11-16 01:45:42 <Luke-Jr> shrug
 174 2012-11-16 01:45:57 <sipa> as that's what takes the majority of the tim
 175 2012-11-16 01:45:57 <gmaxwell> yea, script check skipping only.. HM.
 176 2012-11-16 01:46:22 <Luke-Jr> I'm not too worried about that.
 177 2012-11-16 01:46:34 <gmaxwell> sipa: the bummer there is that you could have some bad memory (not just a cosmic ray) and attempt bad blocks the whole execution time.
 178 2012-11-16 01:46:44 <Luke-Jr> …
 179 2012-11-16 01:46:44 <gmaxwell> but I agree, not much of a bummer.
 180 2012-11-16 01:47:05 <Luke-Jr> [01:14:47] <Luke-Jr> sipa: but on the off-chance my memory flips a bit, I'd rather not lose $500 for it :P
 181 2012-11-16 01:47:06 <Luke-Jr> :p
 182 2012-11-16 01:47:07 MC1984 has joined
 183 2012-11-16 01:47:32 <stamit> ever heard of backups?
 184 2012-11-16 01:47:37 <gmaxwell> Before relro it wasn't unheard of to have people with repeatable failures in gcc, etc. that were ram. Relro makes those less repeatable.
 185 2012-11-16 01:47:50 * Luke-Jr facepalms
 186 2012-11-16 01:48:10 <cjd> interesting
 187 2012-11-16 01:48:13 <sipa> stamit: sure, keep mining on your block chain backup
 188 2012-11-16 01:48:26 <sipa> godspeed to you and your miners
 189 2012-11-16 01:48:42 <cjd> not sure I get how relro smooths it over but I never thought about bit flips during compilation
 190 2012-11-16 01:48:44 vampireb has joined
 191 2012-11-16 01:48:48 MC-Eeepc has joined
 192 2012-11-16 01:49:12 <gmaxwell> sipa: I haven't looked back at the code tonight but how hard would it be to run the checkblock _After_ returning the result?
 193 2012-11-16 01:49:28 <sipa> kinda hard
 194 2012-11-16 01:49:34 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: pretty hard to send a JSON-RPC error at that point <.<
 195 2012-11-16 01:49:44 <sipa> also, what's the point?
 196 2012-11-16 01:50:22 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: who cares? it would spam the heck out of your logs. My sympathy for miners with bad ram who don't have log monitoring is much less than bad ram alone. But yea, if it's hard it's not worth it.
 197 2012-11-16 01:50:51 <sipa> well, in any case: script validation during block construction can be safely disabled, imho
 198 2012-11-16 01:51:19 <gmaxwell> considering the caching we do it's already partly disabled.
 199 2012-11-16 01:51:26 * jgarzik wonders if there is any way to delete all the remote git[hub] branches not found in the local repo.
 200 2012-11-16 01:51:37 <jgarzik> my jgarzik/bitcoin is getting craploaded
 201 2012-11-16 01:51:41 <sipa> gmaxwell: you mean sig caching?
 202 2012-11-16 01:51:46 <gmaxwell> Yes.
 203 2012-11-16 01:51:55 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
 204 2012-11-16 01:52:02 <sipa> without sig caching, the createnewblock would take ages
 205 2012-11-16 01:52:16 <sipa> *current
 206 2012-11-16 01:52:24 MC1984 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 207 2012-11-16 01:52:36 <sipa> but *still*, the majority of the time seems to be spent in script validation
 208 2012-11-16 01:53:44 <gmaxwell> I'm just saying the choice there is between incomplete validation and somewhat more incomplete validation. Also, if the concern is bitflips in the txn the only ones that would matter that we could currently cache are ones in the tx hashes themselves.
 209 2012-11-16 01:53:59 <gmaxwell> checking the hashes against the memory pool again ought to be much faster than the scripts.
 210 2012-11-16 01:54:27 nibor has joined
 211 2012-11-16 01:55:31 <cjd> seems like anything handling money would use ECC ram anyway
 212 2012-11-16 01:55:40 <gmaxwell> hahahah
 213 2012-11-16 01:55:57 <sipa> cjd: sure, and dedicated hardware in locked cages
 214 2012-11-16 01:56:02 <sipa> like linode provides
 215 2012-11-16 01:56:05 <stamit> ah right, you want to check to see if the hashes are right and didn't get flipped by a cosmic ray
 216 2012-11-16 01:56:06 <cjd> heh
 217 2012-11-16 01:56:20 nibor_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 218 2012-11-16 01:57:31 * sipa zZzZ
 219 2012-11-16 01:57:41 <cjd> Maybe it's not realistic but if someone complained about bit flips I would tell them to use enterprise grade hardware...
 220 2012-11-16 01:58:30 MC-Eeepc has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 221 2012-11-16 01:58:35 <gmaxwell> cjd: We need to endeavor to build systems which are robust against the real world, — which includes lossy users and lossy hardware. For something like mining I can buy a tradeoff that doesn't prefer double checking.
 222 2012-11-16 01:58:55 <gmaxwell> cjd: but e.g. for transaction creation— which has little to no performance implications, it absolutely should double check.
 223 2012-11-16 01:59:20 <cjd> indeed, for users you want to go the belt and suspenders route
 224 2012-11-16 01:59:37 <cjd> mining pool ops theoretically know what they're doing
 225 2012-11-16 02:00:03 <gmaxwell> Safty criticial systems often fill all their unused memory with jmps to the 'omg something went wrong, reboot and recover' code.. just in case the instruction pointer is corrupted.
 226 2012-11-16 02:00:49 <cjd> mmm that's cute :)
 227 2012-11-16 02:00:49 rdponticelli has joined
 228 2012-11-16 02:01:34 <gmaxwell> cjd: well it's not just that— if checkblock were somewhat faster then the expected loss from the delay would be lower than the expect loss from bitflips (which still happen on enterprise grade hardware, just less often)... but sadly it's not that fast.
 229 2012-11-16 02:02:02 <cjd> reading over Illumos I saw a lot of "if this <thing that should never fail> fails, wait for <timeout> then try again"
 230 2012-11-16 02:02:17 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
 231 2012-11-16 02:02:47 <gmaxwell> but the expected loss from only losing fees? well I think that bitflips might be worse than lost fees. So kinda a tossup. I don't want to encourage miners to do like luke does and mine empty blocks to hide bitcoin's latency.
 232 2012-11-16 02:03:05 <gmaxwell> s/luke/luke and p2pool and god knows what else/
 233 2012-11-16 02:03:40 <cjd> shouldn't ever happen in ecc ram, the only time I ever had ecc errors was running skype in kvm
 234 2012-11-16 02:03:46 <gmaxwell> cjd: yea, the only problem with doing things like that is that it makes it harder to fully test the code.
 235 2012-11-16 02:03:55 <cjd> indeed
 236 2012-11-16 02:04:35 <gmaxwell> cjd: oh sure it does. your memory may be ecc but it's not like the whole cpu is double-computation and voting.
 237 2012-11-16 02:04:55 <cjd> yeeap, was just about to say heh
 238 2012-11-16 02:05:39 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 239 2012-11-16 02:05:42 <cjd> could throw little 1's complements checksums on things, they're pretty fast
 240 2012-11-16 02:07:20 <gmaxwell> Yea, we do that in big routers. add a one byte checksum to packet payload on ingress when the L1 CRC comes off.. and check it at egress. Catches crazy failures that other things don't catch even though every hop internally is ECC protected and memory is ecc protected.
 241 2012-11-16 02:08:16 <cjd> you work on routers?
 242 2012-11-16 02:08:19 <gmaxwell> and even with that, I've had router hardware with silent corruption. (bad flipflops driving memory in a buffer right before the check value was added!)
 243 2012-11-16 02:08:40 <gmaxwell> Yes.
 244 2012-11-16 02:09:00 <cjd> did you ever see my switching protocol?
 245 2012-11-16 02:09:34 <gmaxwell> oh you're cjdns.
 246 2012-11-16 02:09:43 * cjd hides
 247 2012-11-16 02:10:03 <gmaxwell> I have, its a neat idea.
 248 2012-11-16 02:10:08 <cjd> thanks
 249 2012-11-16 02:10:35 Guest79319 has quit ()
 250 2012-11-16 02:10:37 <cjd> it works (amazingly enough).. the higher level stuff still has a few dropped crypto session bugs to work out
 251 2012-11-16 02:11:00 toffoo has joined
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 253 2012-11-16 02:19:04 <gmaxwell> cjd: have you looked at all into using your web of trust peering links as some method for clustering nodes to make it more sybil attack resistant. (as I understood your design, the DHT is mostly oblivious to the peering, so someone who just starts up a bunch of nodes behind one could attract a lot of the dht space and DOS attack)
 254 2012-11-16 02:21:25 vampireb has joined
 255 2012-11-16 02:21:34 <cjd> yeap, the code is a warped DHT which prefers physically close connections (fewest hops)
 256 2012-11-16 02:21:56 <cjd> so you can DoS your local area but far off nodes won't even consider you as a candidate to forward a packet to
 257 2012-11-16 02:22:56 <cjd> That's not just security, it's because you really don't want to forward to china only because you don't know the final destination which might be just a few cities away
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 259 2012-11-16 02:26:50 sgornick is now known as sgornick^
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 262 2012-11-16 02:27:21 sgornick^ is now known as sgornick`
 263 2012-11-16 02:27:27 <gmaxwell> Neat.
 264 2012-11-16 02:28:14 sgornick` is now known as sgornick^
 265 2012-11-16 02:28:30 sgornick^ is now known as sgornick-
 266 2012-11-16 02:28:55 sgornick- is now known as sgornick_
 267 2012-11-16 02:29:33 sgornick_ is now known as sgornick]
 268 2012-11-16 02:29:44 sgornick] is now known as sgornick[
 269 2012-11-16 02:29:57 sgornick[ is now known as sgornick{
 270 2012-11-16 02:30:06 sgornick{ is now known as sgornick[
 271 2012-11-16 02:30:10 sgornick[ is now known as sgornick}
 272 2012-11-16 02:30:15 * cjd waits for him to hit the limit
 273 2012-11-16 02:32:30 <gmaxwell> cjd: sgornick☠  ?
 274 2012-11-16 02:32:32 sgornick} has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 275 2012-11-16 02:32:36 <gmaxwell> there we go.
 276 2012-11-16 02:34:31 maaku has joined
 277 2012-11-16 02:35:55 <cjd> oh I actually figured he'd hit a spam limit on one of the ops' irc client
 278 2012-11-16 02:36:26 <cjd> anyway I suppose it's now no secret why I want to notarize things with really tiny proofs
 279 2012-11-16 02:38:01 sgornick has joined
 280 2012-11-16 02:39:52 enolan has joined
 281 2012-11-16 02:40:52 <gmaxwell> You could probably benefit from the merged identity mining stuff I've talked about before.
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 284 2012-11-16 02:44:28 <cjd> My first issue is the hash branch needs to be really tiny (obviously) and the second issue is I would be worried about having to make an agreement with a miner to get hashes signed.. on the other side of the coin, a lot of entries can fit in a hashtree so 1 per week will be fine at least as long as it doesn't get popular or some other tragity...
 285 2012-11-16 02:45:23 <cjd> And of course I'd like to give something back since copying in base58 numbers is painful and the user can not make any sense of them to check that they are valid
 286 2012-11-16 02:45:39 <cjd> valid == !mitm
 287 2012-11-16 02:46:07 <gmaxwell> Does it really need to be that tiny? Presumably since they're costly to make you won't be flooded with them and you can remember them. (not that making them small is a bad idea)
 288 2012-11-16 02:46:14 fdgdf has joined
 289 2012-11-16 02:46:56 <gmaxwell> sgornick: are you the real sgornick? :P
 290 2012-11-16 02:46:57 <cjd> lemme see if I can find my notes...
 291 2012-11-16 02:47:11 <fdgdf> ;
 292 2012-11-16 02:47:42 fdgdf has quit (Client Quit)
 293 2012-11-16 02:47:47 <gmaxwell> How insightful.
 294 2012-11-16 02:51:33 <sgornick> <gmaxwell> sgornick: are you the real sgornick? :P  <--- Just authed.   There was an impersonator that came in on "sgornick^", but now I grouped that and a few others to my nick.
 295 2012-11-16 02:52:30 phantomcircuit is now known as therealphantomci
 296 2012-11-16 02:52:39 therealphantomci is now known as phantomcircuit`
 297 2012-11-16 02:53:22 <cjd> My original writeup was 148 bytes of content, a merkle branch and then a tx if it fits (if it doesn't fit in 1024 bytes then you have to ask for it by hash) then the merkle branch linking that back to the header merkle root and finally the block height (to speed up validation)
 298 2012-11-16 02:54:47 phantomcircuit` is now known as phantomcircuit
 299 2012-11-16 02:54:52 <cjd> hmm I was figuring on the merkle nodes being 64 bytes but I guess they would only be 32 so there's some savings
 300 2012-11-16 02:56:15 <cjd> "the response will
 301 2012-11-16 02:56:15 <cjd> contain the Proof of Validity, abridged at the end of the Bitcoin transaction if necessary to
 302 2012-11-16 02:56:16 <cjd> prevent the packet from growing larger than 1024 bytes"
 303 2012-11-16 02:57:30 Arnavion has quit (Quit: Arnavion)
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 305 2012-11-16 02:59:20 <D34TH> 1940
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 307 2012-11-16 03:02:26 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: I notice you're going over pullreqs. I would especially appreciate if you have any suggestions on the connection-lost case of longpolling
 308 2012-11-16 03:04:09 bitcoinz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 309 2012-11-16 03:04:53 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: getblocktemplate()'s str_type if-branch appears to access hashBestChain outside of locks?
 310 2012-11-16 03:05:07 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: will add a note in github so it's clear
 311 2012-11-16 03:05:51 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: it's inside cs_main
 312 2012-11-16 03:05:54 <Luke-Jr> at that point
 313 2012-11-16 03:06:17 <Luke-Jr> note this does not use the "unlocked" flag
 314 2012-11-16 03:06:26 bitcoinz has joined
 315 2012-11-16 03:08:36 <jgarzik> ok
 316 2012-11-16 03:12:50 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: am I wrong? <.<
 317 2012-11-16 03:13:22 * Luke-Jr was half expecting a "no, because <x>" response XD
 318 2012-11-16 03:19:36 noagendamarket has joined
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 320 2012-11-16 03:21:17 <amiller> hi cjd
 321 2012-11-16 03:21:27 <amiller> i'm not sure what you're working on but i'm glad you're doing it :p
 322 2012-11-16 03:21:57 <cjd> oh right, we met didn't we
 323 2012-11-16 03:22:00 <Luke-Jr> lol
 324 2012-11-16 03:22:09 <cjd> my memory is like that of a goldfish, I'm sorry
 325 2012-11-16 03:22:50 <cjd> in simple terms it is as follows: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cjdns
 326 2012-11-16 03:22:58 <cjd> as simple as can be written :S
 327 2012-11-16 03:23:14 <amiller> no i know about #cjdns, i hope you'll stay on freenode rather than being on whatever that other server is
 328 2012-11-16 03:23:25 <amiller> but it looks like you're writing a bitcoin client?
 329 2012-11-16 03:23:33 <gmaxwell> god forbid dogfooding. :P
 330 2012-11-16 03:23:53 <amiller> oh, is the other itself running over cjdns
 331 2012-11-16 03:24:17 <cjd> there is one running on cjdns, I like it because the lag tells me how much I suck at programming
 332 2012-11-16 03:24:42 <amiller> k
 333 2012-11-16 03:24:56 <amiller> well that's legit i suppose :p
 334 2012-11-16 03:25:08 <Luke-Jr> cjd: hmm, I seem to recall Bitcoin had some problems integrating with cjdns; are you planning to address that? :p
 335 2012-11-16 03:25:37 <cjd> EFnet is where the flagship channel is but since the cjdns network irc was founded, not a lot of talk goes on there anymore
 336 2012-11-16 03:25:56 <cjd> cjdns talks ipv6 through a TUN device, nothing too special there
 337 2012-11-16 03:26:14 <cjd> if you can talk ipv6, you can talk with it
 338 2012-11-16 03:26:17 * amiller idles #cjdns on freenode just in case
 339 2012-11-16 03:26:27 <Luke-Jr> cjd: IIRC, the problem was that the IPv6-based address is just a shortcut for some longer-address resolution?
 340 2012-11-16 03:26:34 <gmaxwell> That was the i2p issues.
 341 2012-11-16 03:26:39 <Luke-Jr> ahj
 342 2012-11-16 03:27:06 <cjd> well.. sort of but that's all internal... until it fails
 343 2012-11-16 03:27:15 <cjd> you just see ipv6 addresses
 344 2012-11-16 03:27:41 <gmaxwell> I think CJDNS's issue was that it uses a really enormous space, and it didn't really make sense to merge the address block absent more clear need. Other than accepting the addresses bitcoin doesn't need to do anything special for cjdns as it's not proxy based. (Ups and downs there...)
 345 2012-11-16 03:27:50 goodbtc has joined
 346 2012-11-16 03:28:19 <cjd> enormous space?
 347 2012-11-16 03:28:52 <gmaxwell> cjd: doesn't cjdns use 100% of v6 link local or something like that?
 348 2012-11-16 03:29:06 <cjd> oh yeah, every addr is a /128
 349 2012-11-16 03:29:22 <cjd> thought for a second you meant memory :)
 350 2012-11-16 03:29:50 <gmaxwell> I understood the reason with packing a pubkey in the address... but it makes cjdns a bit invasive to implement. E.g. it's not totally harmless if it goes nowhere.
 351 2012-11-16 03:29:55 <amiller> you can probably pay a gpu-service to find partial hash collisions (we care a lot about partial hash collisions, fwiw) but i'm not sure what impact that has on the sybil resistance of cjdns
 352 2012-11-16 03:30:32 <cjd> yeah, it's just double sha512 with point addition
 353 2012-11-16 03:30:35 <amiller> e.g., the vanity address market
 354 2012-11-16 03:31:14 <cjd> not double sha256 because I didn't want every miner turning their guns on it...
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 357 2012-11-16 03:31:34 <Diablo-D3> cjd: point addition?
 358 2012-11-16 03:31:51 <amiller> cjd, yeah that'll stop 'em
 359 2012-11-16 03:32:25 <cjd> Diablo-D3: it's the sha512 of the public key so you point add the pubkey and regular add the private key, it's the most efficient way to gen crypto keys fast
 360 2012-11-16 03:32:45 <Diablo-D3> but... I can do that with a gpu
 361 2012-11-16 03:34:02 <cjd> well you have to collide 128 bits to get someone's addr and even then you don't get to just jump in on their TCP streams, you get weird situations because there is key exchange and you don't have the same key
 362 2012-11-16 03:34:38 <amiller> you can collide much less and still get placed near them in proximity
 363 2012-11-16 03:35:23 <cjd> it doesn't really help that much to try to sybil the network, see above
 364 2012-11-16 03:35:35 <cjd> (physical distance is more important than address distance)
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 369 2012-11-16 03:47:04 <phantomcircuit> sipa, https://github.com/pstratem/bitcoin/commit/746981ac453ecc843b980c2c149bc16bbe252791
 370 2012-11-16 03:47:06 fiesh_ has joined
 371 2012-11-16 03:47:09 <phantomcircuit> so it's not a *great* start
 372 2012-11-16 03:47:13 <phantomcircuit> but it kind of work
 373 2012-11-16 03:47:33 <phantomcircuit> also has spelling mistakes and totally dump variable names
 374 2012-11-16 03:53:52 RainbowDashh has joined
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 380 2012-11-16 04:16:58 <cjd> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/16/wordpress_to_accept_bitcoin/ <-- look what just rolled in on the rss feeder
 381 2012-11-16 04:17:23 <phantomcircuit> cjd, you're several hours late
 382 2012-11-16 04:17:25 <phantomcircuit> lol
 383 2012-11-16 04:17:36 <cjd> hmm need a faster rss feeder
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 387 2012-11-16 04:24:30 <phantomcircuit> argh scrollback isn't working
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 393 2012-11-16 04:30:22 * jgarzik always misreads Hasimir as "Hashmir"
 394 2012-11-16 04:30:29 <jgarzik> too much hash in bitcoin ;p
 395 2012-11-16 04:32:26 <etotheipi_> slush: I apologize... your timing has been terrible, and my time this weekend is very limited
 396 2012-11-16 04:32:39 <Hasimir> jgarzik, you're fixated
 397 2012-11-16 04:33:23 <etotheipi_> slush: I'm on now for another 1-2 hours, and might be on in the morning (EST)
 398 2012-11-16 04:33:47 <etotheipi_> slush: definitely not at 5:30am, though :)
 399 2012-11-16 04:34:13 <etotheipi_> (that's GMT-5)
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 422 2012-11-16 05:33:34 <kreal> I remember a program similar to bitcoind that would output information about that network. What could this be?
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 455 2012-11-16 07:45:54 <Arnavion> I just started up a bitcoin-qt compiled from tip of tree, and it shows my wallet has 0 BTC in it
 456 2012-11-16 07:46:10 <Arnavion> I recall this issue was mentioned here a few weeks ago. What was the fix?
 457 2012-11-16 07:47:24 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 458 2012-11-16 07:48:37 <kreal> hmm adding bitcoins to it ?
 459 2012-11-16 07:48:57 <Arnavion> It's supposed to have ~1 BTC in it
 460 2012-11-16 07:48:59 CodesInChaos has joined
 461 2012-11-16 07:49:05 <Arnavion> The transactions do show up fine
 462 2012-11-16 07:49:06 <kreal> copying in your saved wallet.dat in the directory?
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 480 2012-11-16 08:50:22 <thermoman> hi there
 481 2012-11-16 08:50:36 <thermoman> 11/16/12 07:30:16 ThreadRPCServer method=move
 482 2012-11-16 08:50:42 <thermoman> and then after this the client deadlocks
 483 2012-11-16 08:50:48 <thermoman> i guess this is the known bug?
 484 2012-11-16 08:50:51 <thermoman> 0.7.1
 485 2012-11-16 09:00:56 <thermoman> when will 0.7.2 be made available?
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 505 2012-11-16 10:03:25 <thermoman> had to kill bitcoind, then recompiled with patch, restarted ... works fine now
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 540 2012-11-16 11:21:58 <sipa> ;;bc,halfreward
 541 2012-11-16 11:21:59 <gribble> Estimated time of bitcoin block reward halving: Wed Nov 28 20:39:00 2012 | Time remaining: 1 week, 5 days, 17 hours, 30 minutes, and 0 seconds
 542 2012-11-16 11:22:03 BitcoinBaltar has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 543 2012-11-16 11:22:10 <senseless> wow, well before december
 544 2012-11-16 11:22:33 <senseless> just in time for the asic manuf. to get a few 50/block rewards in before they ship ~
 545 2012-11-16 11:22:56 <goodbtc> for testing purposes only
 546 2012-11-16 11:23:51 BitcoinBaltar has joined
 547 2012-11-16 11:27:41 <epscy> you think asics will ship before the reward halves?
 548 2012-11-16 11:28:18 <sipa> i don't think so
 549 2012-11-16 11:31:04 <epscy> me neither
 550 2012-11-16 11:31:34 <epscy> it's a shame really, asics hitting before the halving would have been fun
 551 2012-11-16 11:36:07 <xenland> Anyone care to speculate about value of Bitcoins upon pricing half? do you think its already altered its value or will it change its value after the halving
 552 2012-11-16 11:37:16 <edcba> i think it will exchange at 1:100
 553 2012-11-16 11:44:37 <epscy> xenland: I think there is a good thing that nothing will really change
 554 2012-11-16 11:44:46 <epscy> at least not in the following few months
 555 2012-11-16 11:45:39 <epscy> sorry good chance
 556 2012-11-16 11:48:01 <epscy> if the price does move, i think we are equally likely to see a fall or an increase
 557 2012-11-16 12:00:43 gfinn has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 558 2012-11-16 12:11:40 <_dr> xenland: it already has altered its value imho. it has been stable at around 6$ for months
 559 2012-11-16 12:11:53 <senseless> price will slowly trend upward as more bitcoins go out of circulation
 560 2012-11-16 12:12:00 <senseless> it wont be instant
 561 2012-11-16 12:12:04 <_dr> then it went straight to 10-12$
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 564 2012-11-16 12:14:26 <epscy> senseless: not sure about that
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 566 2012-11-16 12:14:57 <epscy> i think most miners are hoarding a significant amount of the coin they get
 567 2012-11-16 12:15:13 <epscy> so if you assume btc demand is stable
 568 2012-11-16 12:15:20 <senseless> I'm not so sure about that
 569 2012-11-16 12:15:26 <senseless> Judging from what i see on the forums
 570 2012-11-16 12:15:43 <epscy> the question is what happens to the amount hoarded after the halving
 571 2012-11-16 12:16:13 <epscy> senseless: well you may be right, it's difficult to prove either way
 572 2012-11-16 12:17:27 <_dr> couldn't you use some sort of heuristic to guess the hoarded amount?
 573 2012-11-16 12:17:35 <epscy> senseless: in a way it doesn't matter if the miners are hoarding or if whoever they sell to is hoarded
 574 2012-11-16 12:17:42 <epscy> _dr: i was just thinking that
 575 2012-11-16 12:17:59 <_dr> i mean, clearly coins that were sent from a pool address to a miner address and haven't been moved since can be assumed as hoarded
 576 2012-11-16 12:18:10 <epscy> certainly if everyone who held btc tried to sell at once the price would crash
 577 2012-11-16 12:18:40 <epscy> so there is some hoarding going on
 578 2012-11-16 12:18:57 <epscy> _dr: i think days destroyed probably covers this
 579 2012-11-16 12:19:10 <epscy> or is at least as good as we are likely to get
 580 2012-11-16 12:19:38 <xenland> Interesting points
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 589 2012-11-16 12:58:30 <senseless> i think hoarding is different than keeping coins
 590 2012-11-16 12:58:38 <senseless> By hoarding, i mean they never spend a dime
 591 2012-11-16 12:58:51 <senseless> I'm sure there are people who leave their coins sit for a month or 2 before they buy something with them
 592 2012-11-16 12:59:23 <senseless> I've got coins i'm holding now, but not for any particular reason. No reason to exchange them to USD, don't need to buy anything.. So..
 593 2012-11-16 13:00:23 <senseless> I might buy some video cards with them once asics crash the price. This mosix vcl cluster platform sounds interesting.
 594 2012-11-16 13:00:34 <sipa> jgarzik: nice pullreq-reducing tantrum :)
 595 2012-11-16 13:02:05 <senseless> A hoarder might even buy additional coins just to take them out of circulation
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 611 2012-11-16 13:23:32 <edcba> wordpress will accept bitcoins ??
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 663 2012-11-16 15:52:17 <Arnavion> Just wanted to post that -salvagewallet worked for my problem yesterday (bitcoin-qt loaded transactions fine but showed 0 BTC balance)
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 672 2012-11-16 16:04:53 <thermoman> Arnavion: did you try berkeley db dump and reimport of wallet.dat before?
 673 2012-11-16 16:05:16 <Arnavion> Uhh
 674 2012-11-16 16:05:30 <Arnavion> No, I just tried -upgradewallet first
 675 2012-11-16 16:05:44 <thermoman> oh, didn't know about -upgradewallet
 676 2012-11-16 16:05:44 <Arnavion> I do have the wallet backed up if you want me to try
 677 2012-11-16 16:06:00 <Arnavion> Well -upgradewallet didn't help
 678 2012-11-16 16:06:33 <thermoman> try this:
 679 2012-11-16 16:06:45 <thermoman> db4.8_dump wallet.dat > wallet.dump
 680 2012-11-16 16:06:51 <thermoman> db4.8_load wallet.import < wallet.dump
 681 2012-11-16 16:06:56 <thermoman> db4.8_dump wallet.import > wallet.dump2
 682 2012-11-16 16:07:04 <thermoman> then check if both dumps are the same:
 683 2012-11-16 16:07:09 <thermoman> md5sum wallet.dump*
 684 2012-11-16 16:07:23 <thermoman> do *not* post contents from the dump files here!
 685 2012-11-16 16:08:05 <thermoman> i once had problems with upgrading the client from an old version to 0.7 and was forced to dump and reimport the wallet.dat
 686 2012-11-16 16:08:16 <thermoman> anything other i tried failed
 687 2012-11-16 16:08:28 <Arnavion> Quick question before I do that: Where are the addresses in the address book stored?
 688 2012-11-16 16:08:35 BlackPrapor has joined
 689 2012-11-16 16:08:38 <sipa> wallet.dat
 690 2012-11-16 16:08:38 <Arnavion> In wallet.dat?
 691 2012-11-16 16:08:41 <Arnavion> Okay
 692 2012-11-16 16:09:14 <thermoman> addr.dat is old (since 0.7) and can be safeley deleted
 693 2012-11-16 16:09:25 <thermoman> it's now called peers.dat
 694 2012-11-16 16:09:39 <Arnavion> Yeah, I lost those addresses
 695 2012-11-16 16:09:46 <Arnavion> I also don't have db4.8_dump
 696 2012-11-16 16:09:55 <sipa> losing addr.dat or peers.dat is not a problem
 697 2012-11-16 16:10:03 <sipa> Arnavion: what os?
 698 2012-11-16 16:10:14 <Arnavion> opensuse tumbleweed
 699 2012-11-16 16:10:17 <Arnavion> 64-bit
 700 2012-11-16 16:10:27 <sipa> no idea in that case
 701 2012-11-16 16:10:31 <Arnavion> Checking my bdb package to see the binaries, one sec
 702 2012-11-16 16:10:40 <thermoman> Arnavion: zypper se db4
 703 2012-11-16 16:11:37 <thermoman> debian package name is db4.8-util
 704 2012-11-16 16:11:41 <Arnavion> Ah okay, it's just db_dump etc.
 705 2012-11-16 16:11:45 <Arnavion> without the 4.8
 706 2012-11-16 16:11:56 <thermoman> what version is it?
 707 2012-11-16 16:11:59 <Arnavion> 4.8
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 709 2012-11-16 16:12:02 <thermoman> ok
 710 2012-11-16 16:12:25 <thermoman> after dump/import the wallet was some megabytes smaller as before
 711 2012-11-16 16:12:37 <thermoman> in my case with the upgrade from 0.3.24 to 0.7
 712 2012-11-16 16:13:09 <thermoman> sipa: did you see that we came across the "move = deadlock" issue this morning? :)
 713 2012-11-16 16:13:10 datagutt is now known as meiyo
 714 2012-11-16 16:13:21 meiyo is now known as datagutt
 715 2012-11-16 16:13:44 <thermoman> saw this issue some days ago and asked an developer at our company if he uses "move"
 716 2012-11-16 16:14:06 <thermoman> he said yes ... then this morning the deadlock struck us
 717 2012-11-16 16:14:13 <Diablo-D3> move what?
 718 2012-11-16 16:14:23 <thermoman> Diablo-D3: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2009
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 720 2012-11-16 16:14:31 <thermoman> Prevent RPC 'move' from deadlocking
 721 2012-11-16 16:14:32 <Arnavion> Oh dear
 722 2012-11-16 16:14:38 <Arnavion> I lost my wallet.dat backup
 723 2012-11-16 16:14:47 <thermoman> "lost"?
 724 2012-11-16 16:14:51 <Diablo-D3> thermoman: ouch
 725 2012-11-16 16:15:03 <Arnavion> I might have forgotten to copy it over from the dying drive it was on
 726 2012-11-16 16:15:08 <Arnavion> :oops:
 727 2012-11-16 16:15:10 <thermoman> :)
 728 2012-11-16 16:15:22 <thermoman> i hope you destroyed the failing disk
 729 2012-11-16 16:15:24 <Diablo-D3> then you didnt lose your backup, you didnt have one to begin with
 730 2012-11-16 16:15:31 <Arnavion> Yes
 731 2012-11-16 16:15:34 <Arnavion> Well it's only 1 BTC
 732 2012-11-16 16:15:38 <thermoman> haha ok
 733 2012-11-16 16:15:42 <thermoman> lemme check
 734 2012-11-16 16:16:08 <Arnavion> The salvaged wallet.dat does have identical md5 before and after the import
 735 2012-11-16 16:16:10 <thermoman> got a wallet with a bigger number of BTC here
 736 2012-11-16 16:16:12 <Arnavion> if that matters
 737 2012-11-16 16:16:46 <helo> make copies of everything right now
 738 2012-11-16 16:16:49 <thermoman> Arnavion: then wallet.dat was obvious not corrupt?
 739 2012-11-16 16:16:55 <Arnavion> It wasn't
 740 2012-11-16 16:17:08 <Arnavion> Just bitcoin-qt refused to recognize any balance in it
 741 2012-11-16 16:17:21 <sipa> thermoman: yes, i saw it
 742 2012-11-16 16:17:49 <sipa> Arnavion: blockchain up to date?
 743 2012-11-16 16:17:53 <Arnavion> Yes
 744 2012-11-16 16:17:56 <sipa> Arnavion: tried -rescan ?
 745 2012-11-16 16:18:00 <Arnavion> No
 746 2012-11-16 16:18:08 <Arnavion> Oh wait
 747 2012-11-16 16:18:12 <Arnavion> Yeah, I tried -rescan
 748 2012-11-16 16:18:39 <thermoman> bye guys
 749 2012-11-16 16:18:43 <thermoman> SIGWEEKEND received
 750 2012-11-16 16:18:46 <thermoman> :)
 751 2012-11-16 16:18:55 <Arnavion> bitcoin-qt did show all the transactions for addresses in the wallet
 752 2012-11-16 16:19:05 <Arnavion> Only the balance itself was 0.0 BTC
 753 2012-11-16 16:19:24 <Arnavion> Hmm
 754 2012-11-16 16:19:36 <Arnavion> In the datadir, there's a wallet.1353080170.bak
 755 2012-11-16 16:19:46 <Arnavion> Is that made by -salvagewallet before it salvages the wallet?
 756 2012-11-16 16:21:19 <Arnavion> Timestamps suggest yes
 757 2012-11-16 16:21:47 <Arnavion> thermoman: The md5's before and after import for the old wallet also match
 758 2012-11-16 16:23:10 <sipa> salvagewallet only restores what it can
 759 2012-11-16 16:23:21 <sipa> there's no guarantee all keysbare restored
 760 2012-11-16 16:23:47 <Arnavion> Well I still have the pre-salvage wallet.dat
 761 2012-11-16 16:24:01 <sipa> what is wrong with that?
 762 2012-11-16 16:24:16 <sipa> anyway, have to go
 763 2012-11-16 16:24:24 <Arnavion> Balance: 0.00 BTC Unconfirmed: 0.00 BTC
 764 2012-11-16 16:24:27 <Arnavion> is what's wrong with it
 765 2012-11-16 16:25:45 <Arnavion> I'll start 0.7.1 with a clean datadir except for the wallet.dat to see what happens
 766 2012-11-16 16:26:05 <Arnavion> I have to go to work for now
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 775 2012-11-16 17:01:36 <DrHaribo> bitcoind 0.7 changelog says: 'gettransaction' responds for non-wallet TXs now.
 776 2012-11-16 17:01:48 <DrHaribo> but it still gives me: error: {"code":-5,"message":"Invalid or non-wallet transaction id"}
 777 2012-11-16 17:02:19 <DrHaribo> any ideas?
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 779 2012-11-16 17:08:08 <sipa> DrHaribo: which version?
 780 2012-11-16 17:08:30 <DrHaribo> "version" : 70100
 781 2012-11-16 17:08:41 <sipa> oh
 782 2012-11-16 17:08:48 <sipa> you need getrawtransaction
 783 2012-11-16 17:08:58 <sipa> for non -wallet txs
 784 2012-11-16 17:09:09 <DrHaribo> ok.. typo in the changelog I guess
 785 2012-11-16 17:10:42 <DrHaribo> thx
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 796 2012-11-16 17:49:36 <BitDev> hi all
 797 2012-11-16 17:49:46 <BitDev> can some one help me
 798 2012-11-16 17:49:50 darsk1ez has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 799 2012-11-16 17:50:26 <BitDev> in protocol there are "Variable length integer" - how its work?
 800 2012-11-16 17:50:55 <BitDev> how can i know with size i must to use?
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 803 2012-11-16 17:53:41 <BitDev> is there some one here?
 804 2012-11-16 17:54:11 <Guest14917> sipa: hah :)
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 810 2012-11-16 17:56:41 <BitDev> sipa hi
 811 2012-11-16 17:56:56 <BitDev> can you help me with this simple question?
 812 2012-11-16 17:58:30 <jgarzik> bASIC says to me: "Hello, we are excited to let you know that your order and payment has been processed.  Your shipping invoice has been printed and will be ready to go when your bASIC has been assembled and released from test."
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 821 2012-11-16 18:22:44 <senseless> jgarzik: when did you get that?
 822 2012-11-16 18:22:56 <jgarzik> senseless: today
 823 2012-11-16 18:23:30 <senseless> email?
 824 2012-11-16 18:23:35 <senseless> oh
 825 2012-11-16 18:23:37 <senseless> i thought
 826 2012-11-16 18:23:44 <senseless> What is your order number?
 827 2012-11-16 18:23:53 <jgarzik> 123456
 828 2012-11-16 18:23:57 <senseless> zzz
 829 2012-11-16 18:25:00 <gmaxwell> I'd be worried if my order number were 123456.
 830 2012-11-16 18:25:11 <gmaxwell> cause thats the combination on my luggage!
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 834 2012-11-16 18:34:27 <jgarzik> hehe
 835 2012-11-16 18:37:23 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: are those stable NACKs firm, or open to discussion?
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 840 2012-11-16 18:53:14 <gmaxwell> heh: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119761.msg1312948#msg1312948
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 848 2012-11-16 19:00:58 azazar has joined
 849 2012-11-16 19:03:46 <azazar> hello everyone. i'm not sure, but it seems, that someone is making fake bitcoins. i've added an issue to issue tracker https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2020 . is it possible to spend those?
 850 2012-11-16 19:06:36 <Diablo-D3> azazar: its not possible to _make_ them
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 853 2012-11-16 19:08:13 <azazar> so why it's in the blockchain?
 854 2012-11-16 19:08:22 <Diablo-D3> because thats the actual transaction.
 855 2012-11-16 19:08:52 <Diablo-D3> azazar: actually, thats probably your change address
 856 2012-11-16 19:09:03 <Diablo-D3> block explorer cant tell the difference
 857 2012-11-16 19:09:11 <Diablo-D3> lol
 858 2012-11-16 19:09:20 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr just commented on that issue saying exactly that
 859 2012-11-16 19:09:53 sgstair has joined
 860 2012-11-16 19:10:09 <azazar> i see. thanks
 861 2012-11-16 19:10:58 MC1984 has joined
 862 2012-11-16 19:11:10 <Luke-Jr> azazar: a lot of misinformation claims Bitcoin just counts balances, but it does in fact work with logical coins behind the scenes :p
 863 2012-11-16 19:11:27 Icoin has joined
 864 2012-11-16 19:11:30 <Luke-Jr> any given transaction must consume preexisting coins in their entirety
 865 2012-11-16 19:11:47 <Icoin> hi guys can someone tell me where the bitcoin logo is located in the src ?
 866 2012-11-16 19:12:12 <Luke-Jr> src/qt/res/icons/bitcoin.ico
 867 2012-11-16 19:12:42 <Icoin> ty luke
 868 2012-11-16 19:12:42 <Luke-Jr> there's also some under share/pixmaps/
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 885 2012-11-16 19:35:58 <const_antine> hi, i have a question
 886 2012-11-16 19:35:59 <const_antine> my client has been off for months and now it has ~29k blocks to catch up on
 887 2012-11-16 19:36:02 <const_antine> can i create a new address and use it for transactions? will official client be able to let me receive and send bitcoin from the new address?
 888 2012-11-16 19:38:36 <gmaxwell> const_antine: sure, you may not see the payments in your client until its in sync, but there is no need to wait.
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 890 2012-11-16 19:43:35 <const_antine> can i purge the old address to forgo sync-n?
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 892 2012-11-16 19:44:24 <const_antine> ~/.bitcoin has some binary files
 893 2012-11-16 19:45:14 <const_antine> i wonder if i could just remove that entire directory to reset the wallet
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 895 2012-11-16 19:46:35 <BlueMatt> woo delayed flight...anyone have further comments on bloom filter stuff?
 896 2012-11-16 19:47:35 <const_antine> apparently not...
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 899 2012-11-16 19:58:49 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: let's BIP it and merge it!
 900 2012-11-16 19:59:06 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: working on it :)
 901 2012-11-16 20:00:24 maaku has joined
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 903 2012-11-16 20:03:00 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: bip draft url?
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 905 2012-11-16 20:03:39 <BlueMatt> sipa/gmaxwell: I actually see little advantage to having a flag for only unspent outputs instead of all (because you are requesting per-block instead of set of all txn, nodes need to load the block from disk anyway (and the checking is so cheap...)) if one of you feel strongly though, it can be done...
 906 2012-11-16 20:03:48 puslee has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 907 2012-11-16 20:03:54 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: TD wrote up this, though it needs updated for the minor changes made recently: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0037
 908 2012-11-16 20:04:11 <devrandom> hi BlueMatt
 909 2012-11-16 20:04:24 <BlueMatt> hey devrandom
 910 2012-11-16 20:04:59 <devrandom> what's the current status of multisig coins?  I seem to remember that there was a BIP, but not sure about miner adoption
 911 2012-11-16 20:05:31 <BlueMatt> devrandom: pretty easy to get mined, still not much use (due to lack of easy tools to do so)
 912 2012-11-16 20:06:49 <devrandom> "easy" as in > 25% adoption? i.e. less than an hour to mine on average?
 913 2012-11-16 20:07:29 <BlueMatt> sure
 914 2012-11-16 20:07:32 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: It would be nice to have a section that explicitly summarizes the behavior changes to _existing_ messages, like "inv"
 915 2012-11-16 20:07:45 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: "inv" behavior changes etc. are tucked in with the description of new commands
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 917 2012-11-16 20:08:14 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ack
 918 2012-11-16 20:08:34 <jgarzik> tnx
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 920 2012-11-16 20:08:59 <devrandom> BlueMatt: great, thank you
 921 2012-11-16 20:09:40 <Luke-Jr> devrandom: note that only some multisigs are considered "standard" tho
 922 2012-11-16 20:09:50 <Luke-Jr> IIRC 2-of-2 and 2-of-3
 923 2012-11-16 20:09:53 <Luke-Jr> and 3-of-3
 924 2012-11-16 20:11:16 <t7> is a 0 fee tx gonna go through
 925 2012-11-16 20:11:34 <Luke-Jr> t7: maybe someday. if it's "standard".
 926 2012-11-16 20:11:49 <t7> that was a strange scam
 927 2012-11-16 20:12:13 <t7> oh it got confirmed :3
 928 2012-11-16 20:12:54 <BlueMatt> sipa: changed filteradd max size to 520 bytes, am going to update the bip to say "Nodes which receive a filteradd message without an existing filter associated with the connection should create a new filter that is, at a minimum, able to provide a fp rate of .1% when 1000 elements are in the filter)
 929 2012-11-16 20:12:59 <BlueMatt> s/)/"/
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 937 2012-11-16 20:24:35 <BlueMatt> ;;later tell jgarzik wait...TD's version already has that under "Extensions to existing messages"...I assume you missed the header there?
 938 2012-11-16 20:24:37 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 939 2012-11-16 20:30:31 <etotheipi_> sipa: debug.log is filling up again... 280 MB since we last talked about (3 days ago?)
 940 2012-11-16 20:30:36 <etotheipi_> restart Bitcoin-Qt multiple times
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 953 2012-11-16 20:53:45 <devrandom> Luke-Jr: got it
 954 2012-11-16 20:54:08 <Luke-Jr> devrandom: ?
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 960 2012-11-16 21:06:10 <goodbtc> development add-on for btc: http://new.livestream.com/accounts/398160/events/1594566/player_pop_up
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 964 2012-11-16 21:10:22 <devrandom> Luke-Jr: I was confirming that I read your message re multisig limits
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 971 2012-11-16 21:34:21 <etotheipi_> sipa, gmaxwell, Luke-Jr: there appears to be a bug in Bitcoin-Qt (as far as I can tell)... I am definitely responding to multi-tx inv's with multi-tx getdata requests...
 972 2012-11-16 21:34:44 AlexWaters has joined
 973 2012-11-16 21:34:48 <etotheipi_> If I respond with getdata(A; B; C), I get three responses:  tx:C, tx:C, tx:C
 974 2012-11-16 21:35:00 JZavala has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 975 2012-11-16 21:35:31 <etotheipi_> I have hex dumps if you want to see them
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 977 2012-11-16 21:37:53 <ibno> will transactions with a message included (message OP_DROP) be rejected?
 978 2012-11-16 21:38:57 ThomasV has joined
 979 2012-11-16 21:39:14 <etotheipi_> sipa: gmaxwell: Luke-Jr:   here's the output from Armory, http://pastebin.com/2kCYXN6Z
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 981 2012-11-16 21:40:37 <jgarzik> etotheipi_: odd!
 982 2012-11-16 21:41:24 <etotheipi_> jgarzik: I'm checking to see if there's anything in my code that could be causing that... but so far I'm not seeing it
 983 2012-11-16 21:41:39 <etotheipi_> the getdata hexdump clearly shows all three hashes
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 985 2012-11-16 21:43:11 <jgarzik> etotheipi_: FWIW, a useful tool to help rule out your own bugs is wireshark's bitcoin dumper.  google for 'wireshark bitcoin'
 986 2012-11-16 21:43:19 <jgarzik> not sure if http://www.wireshark.org/lists/wireshark-bugs/201106/msg00154.html is merged upstream yet
 987 2012-11-16 21:44:35 <etotheipi_> jgarzik: yeah I've used wireshark before.  but I don't spend very much time dealing with networking, so I never figured it out
 988 2012-11-16 21:44:56 <etotheipi_> (err... it's been a long time since I tried setting it up)
 989 2012-11-16 21:46:57 emeitner has joined
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 991 2012-11-16 21:50:37 <jgarzik> I heart corporate life.  </sarcasm>  Taking the yearly, mandatory "preventing workplace harassment", "avoiding bribery" and "corporate ethics" online JavaScript courses.
 992 2012-11-16 21:51:00 <goodbtc> link?
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1001 2012-11-16 22:01:49 <forsetifox> Anyone playing with Project Niantic?
1002 2012-11-16 22:02:10 <etotheipi_> jgarzik: oh, I didn't realize you were taking about a bitcoin-specific patch to wireshark
1003 2012-11-16 22:02:14 <etotheipi_> I'll check that out...
1004 2012-11-16 22:03:14 <jgarzik> Yes, wireshark has been patched to dump bitcoin-specific data structures seen on the wire
1005 2012-11-16 22:04:12 <etotheipi_> but probably have to compile it myself to get the patch working, eh?
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1010 2012-11-16 22:15:38 <sipa> etotheipi_: which version of bitcoind?
1011 2012-11-16 22:15:40 <jgarzik> etotheipi_: probably yes
1012 2012-11-16 22:19:52 <BlueMatt> jgarzik it never got merged because it had a few issues and the original writer appeared to disapear
1013 2012-11-16 22:25:04 <phantomcircuit> https://github.com/pstratem/bitcoin/commit/746981ac453ecc843b980c2c149bc16bbe252791
1014 2012-11-16 22:25:21 <phantomcircuit> so this doesn't implement any of the more sophisticated checks (liek resource count)
1015 2012-11-16 22:25:32 <phantomcircuit> but it's at least a (poorly coded) framework
1016 2012-11-16 22:25:47 <phantomcircuit> like my variable naming conventions?
1017 2012-11-16 22:25:58 * cjd looks
1018 2012-11-16 22:27:45 <cjd> CNode *worstNode=vNodes[0]; pointer splat on the wrong side of the space :P
1019 2012-11-16 22:28:26 <cjd> std::map<CAddress, int> aaaaaaa; <-- would be okayish if it has a comment explaining wtf it is
1020 2012-11-16 22:29:04 <phantomcircuit> isn't it obvious? im counting connections
1021 2012-11-16 22:29:06 <phantomcircuit> by ip
1022 2012-11-16 22:29:07 <phantomcircuit> lol
1023 2012-11-16 22:30:21 <cjd> not obvious fast enough
1024 2012-11-16 22:30:36 * cjd has a short attention span so things have to become obvious quickly
1025 2012-11-16 22:30:55 <phantomcircuit> same i guess i should give it a real name
1026 2012-11-16 22:30:57 <phantomcircuit> nahhh
1027 2012-11-16 22:31:22 <phantomcircuit> i did this in the middle of the night after like two days of not being able to sleep
1028 2012-11-16 22:31:30 <cjd> I'm partial to mapOfConnectionCountsByAddress
1029 2012-11-16 22:31:32 <phantomcircuit> so the fact that it works at all is impressive to me
1030 2012-11-16 22:31:42 <cjd> it's a lot to type so I use ctrl+[cv]
1031 2012-11-16 22:32:12 <phantomcircuit> i used all aaaaaaaa because i can just double click on it to replace with copypasta
1032 2012-11-16 22:32:13 <phantomcircuit> heh
1033 2012-11-16 22:32:46 <cjd> that's actually clever
1034 2012-11-16 22:32:58 <cjd> btw you can do templates in C   https://github.com/cjdelisle/cjdns/blob/master/util/Map.h
1035 2012-11-16 22:33:16 <phantomcircuit> oh god it's a preprocessor hack
1036 2012-11-16 22:33:17 * phantomcircuit runs
1037 2012-11-16 22:33:22 <cjd> here it is in action https://github.com/cjdelisle/cjdns/blob/master/util/test/Map_test.c
1038 2012-11-16 22:33:40 <cjd> how can you argue with:  struct Map_OfLongsByInteger* map = Map_OfLongsByInteger_new(alloc);
1039 2012-11-16 22:34:35 <sipa> phantomcircuit: use CNetAddr::GetGroup() to determine what netrange the address is in
1040 2012-11-16 22:35:26 <phantomcircuit> returns a vector of unsigned chars?
1041 2012-11-16 22:35:29 <sipa> so you can make a map<vector<unsigned char>, int> mapConnectionsPerRange
1042 2012-11-16 22:35:31 <sipa> indeed
1043 2012-11-16 22:35:34 <phantomcircuit> that's kind of weird return value but ok
1044 2012-11-16 22:35:47 <sipa> agree, but the number of significant bits in it is variable
1045 2012-11-16 22:36:06 <phantomcircuit> and the variable just turned into
1046 2012-11-16 22:36:07 <phantomcircuit> mapOfConnectionCountsByAddressGroup
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1048 2012-11-16 22:37:15 <phantomcircuit> sipa, i guess
1049 2012-11-16 22:37:38 * cjd approves
1050 2012-11-16 22:37:49 <sipa> i'm not sure i like always kicking the "worst" connection
1051 2012-11-16 22:38:05 <sipa> determinism can make things predictable
1052 2012-11-16 22:38:51 <phantomcircuit> also the value for .GetGroup i feel like should be cached instead of constantly recalculated
1053 2012-11-16 22:39:02 <phantomcircuit> but that's a micro optimization so uh forget about it
1054 2012-11-16 22:39:02 <cjd> /topic 17:24 < sipa> determinism can make things predictable
1055 2012-11-16 22:39:15 <sipa> cjd: haha, i know, captain obvious
1056 2012-11-16 22:39:19 <cjd> :)
1057 2012-11-16 22:39:22 <sipa> i should have added "for an attacker"
1058 2012-11-16 22:39:29 <cjd> ahh indeed
1059 2012-11-16 22:39:47 <phantomcircuit> sipa, eh well you'll notice that i have at least one check in there that's labeled  //this is probably a waste of time
1060 2012-11-16 22:39:54 <phantomcircuit> so there is certainly room for improvement
1061 2012-11-16 22:40:14 <phantomcircuit> the problem with a non deterministic kicking algorithm is that an attacker can just keep trying and will eventually get lucky
1062 2012-11-16 22:43:15 <phantomcircuit> lol
1063 2012-11-16 22:43:17 <phantomcircuit> fyi
1064 2012-11-16 22:43:27 <phantomcircuit> to scan the entire bitcoin network requires ~40k packets/second
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1067 2012-11-16 22:44:05 <phantomcircuit> it's a good thing ovh doesn't care because most hosting providers would make you leave if you were sending ~3k SYN packets/second to the same port
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1071 2012-11-16 22:53:12 <phantomcircuit> ok pulled from upstream and made changes
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1073 2012-11-16 23:07:13 <sipa> amiller: you don't want to know why i just tweeted 'hehe'
1074 2012-11-16 23:08:12 <gmaxwell> but now I do.
1075 2012-11-16 23:08:16 <phantomcircuit> ditto
1076 2012-11-16 23:10:26 <sipa> haha
1077 2012-11-16 23:10:57 <sipa> ok, i was once playing with my irssi config, and tried mapping e-accent-grave to "say hehe"
1078 2012-11-16 23:11:20 <sipa> it didn't work at the time, and somewhat later i switched to qwerty, which doesn't have that key
1079 2012-11-16 23:11:53 <sipa> apparently it does when using putty on an azerty keyboard though
1080 2012-11-16 23:12:07 <sipa> and twitter is via bitlbee in an irssi window...
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