1 2012-11-28 00:00:36 <sipa> oh, we should change that error message
2 2012-11-28 00:00:45 <sipa> what did you do?
3 2012-11-28 00:02:40 <jgarzik> sipa: ran bitcoind for a while. caught up; everything looked OK. shut it down. went to dinner. started it back up, saw that message.
4 2012-11-28 00:03:19 <jgarzik> 11/27/12 23:50:13 : Error loading blkindex.dat
5 2012-11-28 00:03:25 <jgarzik> that is a weird message, too
6 2012-11-28 00:03:25 <BitDev> i still dont get it...
7 2012-11-28 00:03:35 <sipa> 00:47:57 < sipa> oh, we should change that error message
8 2012-11-28 00:03:42 <BitDev> i want to find out hash of first block http://blockexplorer.com/block/00000000839a8e6886ab5951d76f411475428afc90947ee320161bbf18eb6048
9 2012-11-28 00:03:55 <BitDev> this is data: 01 00 00 00 6f e2 8c 0a b6 f1 b3 72 c1 a6 a2 46 ae 63 f7 4f 93 1e 83 65 e1 5a 08 9c 68 d6 19 00 00 00 00 00 98 20 51 fd 1e 4b a7 44 bb be 68 0e 1f ee 14 67 7b a1 a3 c3 54 0b f7 b1 cd b6 06 e8 57 23 3e 0e 61 bc 66 49 ff ff 00 1d 01 e3 62 99
10 2012-11-28 00:04:11 <jgarzik> 11/27/12 23:50:13 LoadBlockIndex(): last block file = 30
11 2012-11-28 00:04:12 <jgarzik> 11/27/12 23:50:13 LoadBlockIndex(): last block file: CBlockFileInfo(blocks=636, size=63635651, heights=209235..209870, time=2012-11-23..2012-11-27)
12 2012-11-28 00:04:25 <BitDev> first round of hash is 55 c1 9a 2d 76 8f 3a 21 1d 14 d4 00 d7 1d b1 10 6d 51 02 77 a2 a6 f9 14 eb c6 41 f2 06 b2 99 88
13 2012-11-28 00:04:45 <jgarzik> sipa: will some combination of checklevel/checkblocks fix things, if there is corruption?
14 2012-11-28 00:04:53 <jgarzik> equivalent of 'fsck -fvy' ?
15 2012-11-28 00:04:54 <BitDev> next round is 61 8f 81 d0 2f cf f5 33 52 9f 6f 33 03 02 e3 ab 94 38 4c 9b 86 df 72 6e 71 77 95 7d 49 56 d0 e6
16 2012-11-28 00:04:57 <sipa> jgarzik: no
17 2012-11-28 00:05:05 <BitDev> and this is wrong... why?
18 2012-11-28 00:05:16 <BitDev> sha256 with opensll works fine
19 2012-11-28 00:05:23 <BitDev> *ssl
20 2012-11-28 00:05:49 <sipa> jgarzik: you didn't happen to have run test_bitcoin in between?
21 2012-11-28 00:06:31 <jgarzik> sipa: nope
22 2012-11-28 00:06:48 <jgarzik> sipa: normal shutdown. did not touch data files at all or run anything else.
23 2012-11-28 00:07:16 <sipa> jgarzik: and starting again gives the same problem?
24 2012-11-28 00:07:22 <jgarzik> sipa: yes
25 2012-11-28 00:07:30 <jgarzik> BitDev: if you are looking at the hexidecimal representation of the hash, remember byte and word swapping
26 2012-11-28 00:08:06 <jgarzik> BitDev: https://github.com/jgarzik/picocoin/blob/master/lib/buint.c#L31
27 2012-11-28 00:08:08 <sipa> jgarzik: bah
28 2012-11-28 00:08:10 <BitDev> yes, i know it, but is wrong
29 2012-11-28 00:08:25 <jgarzik> BitDev: you have to swap bytes -and- dwords
30 2012-11-28 00:08:36 <sipa> jgarzik: huh?
31 2012-11-28 00:09:01 <sipa> just feeding the bytes as he typed them here into sha256, and the output again, should result in the right hash
32 2012-11-28 00:09:05 <BitDev> i must just reverse all bytes of header?
33 2012-11-28 00:09:12 <sipa> the interpretation of that hash as a number is a next step
34 2012-11-28 00:09:16 <sipa> but the hash is already wrong
35 2012-11-28 00:09:34 <jgarzik> sipa: in converting the resultant hash to a hex string, you must swap bytes and dwords
36 2012-11-28 00:09:40 <jgarzik> or vice versa
37 2012-11-28 00:10:01 <jgarzik> if the hash is wrong, then yes, swapping will just make it wrong-er :)
38 2012-11-28 00:10:22 <sipa> i have no idea what you're saying - you shouldn't touch the data at all in between the two SHA256 applications
39 2012-11-28 00:10:25 <BitDev> sipa - hash wrong of those bytes i send?
40 2012-11-28 00:10:56 <sipa> BitDev: i don't have the time to do the calculation for you now, sorry
41 2012-11-28 00:11:16 <jgarzik> void bu_Hash(unsigned char *md256, const void *data, size_t data_len)
42 2012-11-28 00:11:16 <jgarzik> {
43 2012-11-28 00:11:16 <jgarzik> unsigned char md1[SHA256_DIGEST_LENGTH];
44 2012-11-28 00:11:16 <jgarzik> SHA256(data, data_len, md1);
45 2012-11-28 00:11:16 <jgarzik> SHA256(md1, SHA256_DIGEST_LENGTH, md256);
46 2012-11-28 00:11:17 <jgarzik> }
47 2012-11-28 00:11:24 <jgarzik> BitDev: it's just a double-SHA256()
48 2012-11-28 00:11:34 <BitDev> look i send getheaders packet and receive data and calculating sha256(sha256(header))
49 2012-11-28 00:11:50 <BitDev> i do it same
50 2012-11-28 00:11:53 <sipa> BitDev: paste your code somewhere
51 2012-11-28 00:12:35 <sipa> jgarzik: i really don't like your error
52 2012-11-28 00:12:43 <sipa> jgarzik: i'm surprised because i haven't ever seen that
53 2012-11-28 00:13:12 <BitDev> http://www.everfall.com/paste/id.php?7uycxgcayte0
54 2012-11-28 00:13:14 <BitDev> this is hashing
55 2012-11-28 00:13:31 <BitDev> and of header are right
56 2012-11-28 00:13:43 <BitDev> i look it in the http://blockexplorer.com/block/00000000839a8e6886ab5951d76f411475428afc90947ee320161bbf18eb6048
57 2012-11-28 00:14:10 <jgarzik> grrrr
58 2012-11-28 00:14:14 <twobitcoins> BitDev: echo 01 00 00 00 6f e2 8c 0a b6 f1 b3 72 c1 a6 a2 46 ae 63 f7 4f 93 1e 83 65 e1 5a 08 9c 68 d6 19 00 00 00 00 00 98 20 51 fd 1e 4b a7 44 bb be 68 0e 1f ee 14 67 7b a1 a3 c3 54 0b f7 b1 cd b6 06 e8 57 23 3e 0e 61 bc 66 49 ff ff 00 1d 01 e3 62 99 | xxd -r -p | openssl dgst -sha256 -binary | openssl dgst -sha256 -hex
59 2012-11-28 00:14:21 <twobitcoins> BitDev: 4860eb18bf1b1620e37e9490fc8a427514416fd75159ab86688e9a8300000000
60 2012-11-28 00:14:41 <twobitcoins> Your input data is correct.
61 2012-11-28 00:14:54 <sipa> BitDev: my eyes!
62 2012-11-28 00:16:13 <BitDev> twobitcoins can you give me sha256 (just 1, not sha256(sha256)) of my data?
63 2012-11-28 00:16:23 <BitDev> i will look if first round is fine
64 2012-11-28 00:16:32 * jgarzik blows away the databases
65 2012-11-28 00:16:35 <jgarzik> and restarts IBD
66 2012-11-28 00:16:38 <kjj> I'm getting f558c2aa0e2317daae7ea309a72131f49cd111a22ff27677b5f7de9037d76da7 for the intermediate step
67 2012-11-28 00:16:54 <sipa> jgarzik: just -reindex
68 2012-11-28 00:16:57 <jgarzik> sipa: as I noted earlier, this is vanilla HEAD, with no CNetMessage or RX/TX or any other patches
69 2012-11-28 00:16:58 <twobitcoins> BitDev: echo 01 00 00 00 6f e2 8c 0a b6 f1 b3 72 c1 a6 a2 46 ae 63 f7 4f 93 1e 83 65 e1 5a 08 9c 68 d6 19 00 00 00 00 00 98 20 51 fd 1e 4b a7 44 bb be 68 0e 1f ee 14 67 7b a1 a3 c3 54 0b f7 b1 cd b6 06 e8 57 23 3e 0e 61 bc 66 49 ff ff 00 1d 01 e3 62 99 | xxd -r -p | openssl dgst -sha256 -hex
70 2012-11-28 00:17:05 <twobitcoins> BitDev: a76dd73790def7b57776f22fa211d19cf43121a709a37eaeda17230eaac258f5
71 2012-11-28 00:17:10 <BitDev> thnx!
72 2012-11-28 00:17:11 <jgarzik> sipa: too late ;p
73 2012-11-28 00:17:37 <BitDev> i will look where is my error
74 2012-11-28 00:18:10 etotheipi_ has joined
75 2012-11-28 00:18:36 <kjj> BitDev: can you post your code?
76 2012-11-28 00:18:47 <kjj> at least the section that makes the hash calls?
77 2012-11-28 00:19:48 <kjj> oh, you already did and I missed it in the scrollback
78 2012-11-28 00:19:49 <etotheipi_> sipa: BIP 32 still doesn't say anything about public key compression, only that either can be used. I think you should explicitly call out the assumptions on it
79 2012-11-28 00:19:56 <BitDev> http://www.everfall.com/paste/id.php?i70yiqf2asjv
80 2012-11-28 00:20:08 <BitDev> this is code of sha256
81 2012-11-28 00:21:06 <etotheipi_> (i.e. -- I had originally susggested that only uncompressed be used for CKD func, but you suggested using whatever is used for address160 generation, I think)
82 2012-11-28 00:21:06 <sipa> etotheipi_: hmm, strange, i was sure it was mentioned
83 2012-11-28 00:21:27 <etotheipi_> wait, maybe I'm on the wrong link
84 2012-11-28 00:21:27 <sipa> etotheipi_: yes, my idea was to have everything in a key chain always use the same encoding
85 2012-11-28 00:21:29 <etotheipi_> link me to it
86 2012-11-28 00:21:36 <sipa> no, it doesn't say anything
87 2012-11-28 00:21:38 <sipa> just checked
88 2012-11-28 00:22:28 <sipa> maybe we should restrict BIP32 to just compressed keys... unless someone has a good reason not to use them
89 2012-11-28 00:22:41 <kjj> BitDev: do you have any docs for the Sha256Hash function you are using?
90 2012-11-28 00:22:49 <etotheipi_> sipa: actually that makes sense
91 2012-11-28 00:23:05 <kjj> I can't think of any good reason to generate uncompressed keys any more
92 2012-11-28 00:23:07 <BitDev> kjj i just write it by example
93 2012-11-28 00:23:32 <etotheipi_> kjj: only because Armory doesn't recognize compressed public keys right now :-/
94 2012-11-28 00:23:38 <twobitcoins> BitDev: In Sha256DoubleHash you pass 4 arguments to Sha256Hash, but the Sha256Hash function you shared only takes 3 arguments.
95 2012-11-28 00:23:46 <etotheipi_> but I figured it out for the next wallet implementation
96 2012-11-28 00:23:56 <sipa> etotheipi_: i can't expect it to be hard
97 2012-11-28 00:24:10 <kjj> etotheipi_: should be easy enough to add. very safe to say when I'm not the guy doing it
98 2012-11-28 00:24:13 <sipa> gmaxwell: any opinions about compressed/uncompressed in bip32?
99 2012-11-28 00:25:01 <BitDev> twobitcoins sory that was old code, now its just 3 params
100 2012-11-28 00:25:02 <kjj> BitDev: erm, you implemented SHA256 yourself?
101 2012-11-28 00:25:16 <etotheipi_> kjj: it was easy to add support for understanding them, but not for integrating them into my already-debugged-thoroughly-tested-rock-solid wallet files not using them (I didn't even know they existed at th time)
102 2012-11-28 00:25:29 <BitDev> kjj - i use openssl functions and do by example
103 2012-11-28 00:26:46 jarib has left ("Bye")
104 2012-11-28 00:27:24 <kjj> etotheipi_: how do you store and process imported pubkeys now?
105 2012-11-28 00:27:48 <etotheipi_> kjj: I don't
106 2012-11-28 00:27:55 <etotheipi_> Armory does not understand compressed addresses
107 2012-11-28 00:28:03 <kjj> uncompressed
108 2012-11-28 00:28:40 <etotheipi_> only addresses based on uncompressed addresses are allowed, and all public keys are stored uncompressed in the files
109 2012-11-28 00:29:05 <sipa> i guess that's a disadvantage of designing the file format at very low level
110 2012-11-28 00:29:10 <sipa> ... less flexibility
111 2012-11-28 00:29:13 <etotheipi_> at the time I made it, I didn't realize there were alternatives ... and I was pretty annoyed by the upgrade of Bitcoin-Qt
112 2012-11-28 00:29:32 <etotheipi_> I had just finished a Bitcoin-Qt wallet-migration function
113 2012-11-28 00:29:33 <sipa> well, for the sake of the block chain size, i think it was worth it...
114 2012-11-28 00:29:39 <etotheipi_> sipa: I agree
115 2012-11-28 00:30:23 <kjj> how do you scan the block chain then? at some point, you need to turn that uncompressed pubkey into a string that you can search for in the scripts
116 2012-11-28 00:30:39 <etotheipi_> kjj: Armory doesn't do full verification ... it leaves that to Bitcoin-Qt
117 2012-11-28 00:31:16 <kjj> right, but you have to inspect every payload looking to see if you can solve that script
118 2012-11-28 00:31:25 <etotheipi_> users can only have uncompressed keys tracked my Armory, thus it will recognize any transactions with uncompressed keys, and skip ones iwht compressed
119 2012-11-28 00:31:58 <kjj> the thing is, the key itself is actually the same number.
120 2012-11-28 00:32:30 <sipa> but you scan for an address, not for a public key
121 2012-11-28 00:32:32 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
122 2012-11-28 00:32:32 <etotheipi_> kjj, it only adds standard scripts to the transaction ledger ... and if it's standard (uncompressed), I don't need to evaluate the script, I only need to examine the correct bytes
123 2012-11-28 00:32:46 <sipa> from the txout, you can't even tell whether it's compressed or uncompressed
124 2012-11-28 00:32:56 <sipa> you're just looking for an address
125 2012-11-28 00:33:02 <kjj> you could just store the compressed keys as uncompressed by solving the polynomial to restore y, and then have your scanner calculate both possible hashes for each key, and flag all matches (a key will likely only ever match on one side or the other)
126 2012-11-28 00:33:29 <kjj> gah, you don't even need to solve the polynomial if you import the privkey. I keep forgetting that
127 2012-11-28 00:33:41 <sipa> if you have the (uncompressed) pubkey, it's trivial to turn it into the compressed form
128 2012-11-28 00:33:48 <sipa> hash the compressed form, and scan for that address
129 2012-11-28 00:33:54 <BitDev> just tested my sha256 function for '123' text and i get a6 65 a4 59 20 42 2f 9d 41 7e 48 67 ef dc 4f b8 a0 4a 1f 3f ff 1f a0 7e 99 8e 86 f7 f7 a2 7a e3 hash
130 2012-11-28 00:34:05 <BitDev> i look at the web hash - fine
131 2012-11-28 00:34:18 <BitDev> wtf
132 2012-11-28 00:34:47 <kjj> thing is, if you do it that way, without storing a flag to indicate compression, you have to calculate both possible hashes, and scan for both of them
133 2012-11-28 00:35:00 <sipa> indeed; that should be perfectly possible now
134 2012-11-28 00:36:03 <kjj> BitDev: I get the same.
135 2012-11-28 00:36:24 <kjj> BitDev: now do a double hash of '123' just to see what you get
136 2012-11-28 00:36:26 <jgarzik> sha-zaaaam
137 2012-11-28 00:36:27 <jgarzik> Progress: 27.2%, dl from 21 of 21 peers (2.76 MB/s), ul to 0 (0 kB/s) [0.00]
138 2012-11-28 00:36:32 <jgarzik> love that blockchain torrent
139 2012-11-28 00:36:48 <jgarzik> (that's as fast as my measly net connection will go)
140 2012-11-28 00:37:26 <jgarzik> a healthy amount of peers, for a beta project and no major announcements or version releases
141 2012-11-28 00:37:38 <jgarzik> Doesn't compete with 2,000+ peers on the P2P network of course
142 2012-11-28 00:37:41 <BitDev> i get 5a 77 d1 e9 61 2d 35 0b 37 34 f6 28 22 59 b7 ff 0a 3f 87 d6 2c fe f5 f3 5e 91 a5 60 4c 04 90 a3
143 2012-11-28 00:37:50 <BitDev> after sha256(sha256())
144 2012-11-28 00:38:35 Mqrius has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
145 2012-11-28 00:38:53 <sipa> for "123" ?
146 2012-11-28 00:39:31 terry has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
147 2012-11-28 00:39:42 <BitDev> yes
148 2012-11-28 00:39:49 <BitDev> for string "123"
149 2012-11-28 00:39:51 terrytibbs has joined
150 2012-11-28 00:40:03 BlackPrapor has joined
151 2012-11-28 00:40:10 <BitDev> without quotes
152 2012-11-28 00:40:49 BlackPrapor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
153 2012-11-28 00:41:03 <kjj> BitDev: if you get 173af653... that is the hash of the text string of what are SysTable and Buffer? Are you passing state between the two calls to Sha256Hash? Because you shouldn't be
154 2012-11-28 00:41:18 <kjj> oops. Are you passing state between the two
155 2012-11-28 00:41:21 <kjj> calls to Sha256Hash? Because you shouldn't be
156 2012-11-28 00:41:51 <gmaxwell> sipa: I think it should be compressed only. Are you aware of a reason it shouldn't be?
157 2012-11-28 00:41:52 <BitDev> Buffer
158 2012-11-28 00:41:59 <BitDev> SysTable - was in older version code
159 2012-11-28 00:42:31 <BitDev> for first round of hashing string "123" : a6 65 a4 59 20 42 2f 9d 41 7e 48 67 ef dc 4f b8 a0 4a 1f 3f ff 1f a0 7e 99 8e 86 f7 f7 a2 7a e3
160 2012-11-28 00:42:41 <BitDev> second round: 5a 77 d1 e9 61 2d 35 0b 37 34 f6 28 22 59 b7 ff 0a 3f 87 d6 2c fe f5 f3 5e 91 a5 60 4c 04 90 a3
161 2012-11-28 00:44:03 <BitDev> one question )
162 2012-11-28 00:44:14 <BitDev> i must convert bytes to string?
163 2012-11-28 00:44:32 <sipa> BitDev: you do know the difference between a byte array and a string in C?
164 2012-11-28 00:44:54 <sipa> gmaxwell: slightly more complex to do derivation
165 2012-11-28 00:45:00 <sipa> gmaxwell: but you need EC math anyway
166 2012-11-28 00:45:51 <BitDev> sipa - for me, all data is arrays of some data ) i just get it.. i must sha256(sha256( HEADER BYTES IN STRING (size 0x80 * 2))) - yes?
167 2012-11-28 00:46:12 <BitDev> size of block header in raw is 0x80 bytes
168 2012-11-28 00:46:24 <sipa> BitDev: where does that *2 come from?
169 2012-11-28 00:46:26 <BitDev> and i must hash 0x80*2 bytes (cuz i must convert raw data to string)
170 2012-11-28 00:46:32 <kjj> not 0x80, 80
171 2012-11-28 00:46:53 <sipa> BitDev: no no, not convert to hexadecimal, please
172 2012-11-28 00:46:57 <kjj> and no, this is all binary.
173 2012-11-28 00:47:05 <sipa> BitDev: just the raw output of one sha256 fed directly into the other
174 2012-11-28 00:47:46 <BitDev> wooooohoooo
175 2012-11-28 00:47:46 <BitDev> 48 60 eb 18 bf 1b 16 20 e3 7e 94 90 fc 8a 42 75 14 41 6f d7 51 59 ab 86 68 8e 9a 83 00 00 00 00
176 2012-11-28 00:47:48 <BitDev> my hash )
177 2012-11-28 00:47:57 <BitDev> why i hash 0x80 bytes :D
178 2012-11-28 00:48:08 <BitDev> thnx sipa nd kjj for your help
179 2012-11-28 00:48:16 <BitDev> and twobitcoins too
180 2012-11-28 00:48:31 <BitDev> thnx guys
181 2012-11-28 00:48:49 <gmaxwell> sipa: yea, I'm not finding that compelling.
182 2012-11-28 00:50:39 <sipa> gmaxwell: neither do i
183 2012-11-28 00:51:14 <sipa> etotheipi_: i'm not sure why you consider supporting compressed pubkeys right now so hard
184 2012-11-28 00:51:34 <kjj> I don't have any huge objection to letting people use the uncompressed forms internally, but the output should always be compressed
185 2012-11-28 00:51:58 <gmaxwell> kjj: I'm not even sure what that means.
186 2012-11-28 00:52:19 <sipa> well, internally you're always using the uncompressed form
187 2012-11-28 00:52:31 <sipa> you can't do math with just the X coordinate...
188 2012-11-28 00:52:34 <kjj> if I want to prime a new child node, I don't see any reason to specifically disallow serializing THAT string using the uncompressed form
189 2012-11-28 00:52:55 <kjj> but when that child node starts handing out addresses to the public, all of those should be compressed
190 2012-11-28 00:53:03 <gmaxwell> kjj: uh.. because the seralized form should be standardized.
191 2012-11-28 00:53:07 <etotheipi_> sipa: it has to do with touching the most sensitive part of the code that I have tested extremely thoroughly and hardly needed any fixes/upgrades since March
192 2012-11-28 00:53:28 <sipa> etotheipi_: it's just an extra address you need to scan for
193 2012-11-28 00:53:36 <sipa> anyway, i don't know your code of course
194 2012-11-28 00:53:37 <kjj> etotheipi_: I'd run a test using the dual hash method we outlined earlier
195 2012-11-28 00:54:00 <sipa> etotheipi_: are you ok with making BIP32 compressed-only?
196 2012-11-28 00:54:13 <etotheipi_> let me put it this way: I'm rewriting my wallet file right now, and it *is* trivial to include compressed keys
197 2012-11-28 00:54:14 <kjj> doubles your scan time, but relatively easy to implement
198 2012-11-28 00:54:25 <etotheipi_> I just didn't want to hack my previous wallet file to adapt to it
199 2012-11-28 00:54:31 <gmaxwell> obviously I wouldn't suggest redoing your _old_ stuff. But BIP32 should be born compressed.
200 2012-11-28 00:54:50 <etotheipi_> sipa, gmaxwell, I agree -- always compressed
201 2012-11-28 00:54:50 denisx has joined
202 2012-11-28 00:55:00 Karmaon_ has joined
203 2012-11-28 00:55:14 <kjj> gmaxwell: heh, why start now? :) I can't think of any good reasons why someone would want to pass the full y value, but I'm not sure that is a good reason to disallow it either
204 2012-11-28 00:56:03 <Karmaon_> Luke-Jr: do you have next-test 0.8 compiled for mac?
205 2012-11-28 00:56:21 <sipa> kjj: well for one thing: any software that wants to deal with importing bip32 chains would need to support both formats
206 2012-11-28 00:56:37 <kjj> on the other hand, if we do disallow uncompressed internal representations, there is no point in passing the flag with it. we could use a single bit for the parity mark, and potentially save a byte, depending on where the base58 works out
207 2012-11-28 00:57:11 <sipa> sure, i'll change the BIP32 serialization format to not have a marker byte
208 2012-11-28 00:57:25 Garr255 has joined
209 2012-11-28 00:57:35 <etotheipi_> I like it
210 2012-11-28 00:58:01 <etotheipi_> so all hashes involving public keys will be compressed, all addresses will be compressed, no need to branch the code for any reason
211 2012-11-28 00:58:05 <kjj> gah. why do I STILL keep thinking that the parity needs to go with the privkey. I do that like 3 times a week, and I've known better for months
212 2012-11-28 00:58:43 <sipa> etotheipi_: well maybe you want to support importing old uncompressed keys?
213 2012-11-28 01:00:18 <etotheipi_> sipa: that's part of my plan
214 2012-11-28 01:00:32 <etotheipi_> but BIP 32 wallet chains will only support compressed
215 2012-11-28 01:00:42 <kjj> ok, I agree. since we are doing math based on the actual coordinates, and not hashing an encoding of those values, there is no reason to allow the y value, not even bad ones
216 2012-11-28 01:03:21 <sipa> it is somewhat of a pity that the input to the HMAC is now 65 bytes... exactly one byte more than a block
217 2012-11-28 01:03:54 <kjj> about the only reason left is saving time on underpowered devices. unless I'm way off on the amount of work that involves, doing that once for a key import should be acceptable on any device capable of actually using the keys
218 2012-11-28 01:04:33 <gmaxwell> kjj: well not just thatâ but the small benefit in those cases shouldn't be allowed to burned the network with an externalized cost.
219 2012-11-28 01:05:11 <kjj> gmaxwell: there is no externalized cost for this
220 2012-11-28 01:06:14 <kjj> I'm only talking about a key that a master node gives to a child node, purely internal
221 2012-11-28 01:06:15 <sipa> kjj: i'm not sure what you were suggesting before... allowing the internal generation to be done using either compressed or uncompressed, but require generated keys to be always compressed?
222 2012-11-28 01:06:46 <kjj> sipa: yeah, that's what I was suggesting, but I was looking at work estimates on solving for y, and it doesn't look like a big enough hill to climb to be worth it
223 2012-11-28 01:07:05 <sipa> kjj: you don't need to solve for y
224 2012-11-28 01:07:14 <sipa> only when importing an extended pubkey
225 2012-11-28 01:07:33 <sipa> for the rest of the scheme you just always use whatever internal efficient representation for the pubkey you like
226 2012-11-28 01:07:54 <sipa> the only thing is that you need to drop the y coordinate before serializing when hashing
227 2012-11-28 01:08:06 <kjj> erm, there are different levels of internal. I don't mean internal to the program
228 2012-11-28 01:08:11 <gmaxwell> yea, whatever you do _purely internally_ is up to you, its totally out of scope for the BIP. Whatever you do externally however, has costs that are externalized.
229 2012-11-28 01:08:27 <kjj> I mean internal to the organization using the wallet tree
230 2012-11-28 01:08:33 <sipa> kjj: i mean even the derivation 20 levels deep
231 2012-11-28 01:08:44 <sipa> there is never a point where you need to calculate y
232 2012-11-28 01:08:49 <sipa> because you always already know it
233 2012-11-28 01:09:15 lasento486 has joined
234 2012-11-28 01:10:03 <sipa> updated the text to reflect always compressed
235 2012-11-28 01:10:26 Cory has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
236 2012-11-28 01:10:43 <gmaxwell> sipa: why is the hmac input two blocks now?
237 2012-11-28 01:11:16 <sipa> gmaxwell: it always was... but 65 bytes is a pity, because there's only 512 bit of information in it :)
238 2012-11-28 01:11:42 lasento486 has left ()
239 2012-11-28 01:12:38 <sipa> which mining pools use coinbase payouts? eligius, p2pool, ... any others?
240 2012-11-28 01:12:40 <kjj> sipa: what I'm talking about is when you load a pubkey and chain code onto a smartcard (just an example of a pathetic little CPU)
241 2012-11-28 01:13:14 Cory has joined
242 2012-11-28 01:13:16 <Luke-Jr> Karmaon_: no, there is no secure way to do that really
243 2012-11-28 01:13:20 <sipa> kjj: well they need to do EC multiplications anyway, which is a lot harder than reconstructing y
244 2012-11-28 01:13:46 <sipa> kjj: but yes, it's true
245 2012-11-28 01:15:04 <kjj> sipa: hmm, I thought that solving the square root in EC was a LOT more work than just doing a single multiply
246 2012-11-28 01:15:05 BlackPrapor has quit (2!~BlackPrap@94.41.244.230.dynamic.ufanet.ru|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
247 2012-11-28 01:15:24 <sipa> kjj: it's solving a square root mod p
248 2012-11-28 01:15:27 <sipa> not in EC
249 2012-11-28 01:15:42 <kjj> but not so much more than a user would be put off waiting for it to happen, provided the device has enough power to do the multiplication in a reasonable time
250 2012-11-28 01:16:03 <sipa> (EC is multiplication of numbers and points, a square or square root makes no sense there)
251 2012-11-28 01:16:57 <kjj> heh. I don't do this stuff much, I tend to talk about the field and the curve in the same terms.
252 2012-11-28 01:18:44 <kjj> maybe I just need to look at a more clever implementation for modsqrt. at any rate, that was the only possible objection that I saw having any potential, and not enough, even when I thought that it was harder than ECmul
253 2012-11-28 01:19:32 <sipa> i estimate that an EC multiplication is around 2 orders of magnitude harder :)
254 2012-11-28 01:19:45 <sipa> (though i never implemented either...)
255 2012-11-28 01:20:42 <kjj> anyhow, time for me to go home. been up for ~22 hours and I want to drive home while my 3rd wind is still active
256 2012-11-28 01:27:11 theymos has joined
257 2012-11-28 01:28:19 <theymos> luke-jr: You figure out what happened with blockexplorer.com's blk database?
258 2012-11-28 01:29:34 <Luke-Jr> theymos: maybe. gmaxwell had a theory at the meetup
259 2012-11-28 01:29:41 <Luke-Jr> theymos: were you by any chance deleting blkindex.dat?
260 2012-11-28 01:29:53 <theymos> Not that I know of.
261 2012-11-28 01:29:57 <Luke-Jr> hmm
262 2012-11-28 01:30:08 <Luke-Jr> theymos: can you verify? I think stat should tell you when the file is created
263 2012-11-28 01:32:04 <theymos> I deleted the original blkindex.dat and didn't save the timestamp info.
264 2012-11-28 01:32:42 DutchBrat_ has joined
265 2012-11-28 01:33:44 <theymos> I'm pretty sure that my scripts would never delete blkindex.dat without deleting the other .dat files.
266 2012-11-28 01:34:48 <Luke-Jr> the problem stopped then?
267 2012-11-28 01:34:54 <theymos> Yes.
268 2012-11-28 01:34:57 <theymos> Disk corruption, maybe? Running BBE seems to kill disks -- I've gone through 2-3 already.
269 2012-11-28 01:35:03 <Diablo-D3> ha ha theymos broke something
270 2012-11-28 01:35:06 DutchBrat has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
271 2012-11-28 01:35:16 <Luke-Jr> hmm
272 2012-11-28 01:35:20 <Luke-Jr> I'll have to look into it more
273 2012-11-28 01:35:25 <sipa> use ZFS!
274 2012-11-28 01:35:31 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell's theory sounded so convincing I stopped looking <.<
275 2012-11-28 01:35:33 <Diablo-D3> fuck yeah zfs
276 2012-11-28 01:35:45 * sipa zZzZ
277 2012-11-28 01:35:56 <theymos> luke-jr: You think it's probably some database bug and not a DoS attack?
278 2012-11-28 01:36:37 <gmaxwell> theymos: luke found the files were filled with valid blocks. That doesn't completely preclude a DoS attack but it makes it seem much less likely... as I couldn't find any obvious way to keep writing the same blocks if the database was still there.
279 2012-11-28 01:36:40 <Luke-Jr> theymos: or both
280 2012-11-28 01:38:53 eoss has joined
281 2012-11-28 01:38:53 eoss has quit (Changing host)
282 2012-11-28 01:38:53 eoss has joined
283 2012-11-28 01:39:43 JZavala has joined
284 2012-11-28 01:39:58 <Diablo-D3> ;;halfreward
285 2012-11-28 01:39:58 <Diablo-D3> fucking bot
286 2012-11-28 01:39:59 <gribble> Estimated time of bitcoin block reward halving: Wed Nov 28 19:17:21 2012 UTC | Time remaining: 17 hours, 50 minutes, and 0 seconds.
287 2012-11-28 01:41:22 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
288 2012-11-28 01:41:23 <gribble> 209893
289 2012-11-28 01:44:17 <theymos> gmaxwell: Sounds like maybe some strange problem with BBE's server then. Much less interesting than a DoS attack. :( I'll have to watch to see if something like that happens again. Thanks for looking into it.
290 2012-11-28 01:49:24 BitDev has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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299 2012-11-28 02:02:20 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
300 2012-11-28 02:02:29 <etotheipi_> sipa: one other thing about BIP 32, which I don't think we ever resolved...
301 2012-11-28 02:02:30 JZavala has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
302 2012-11-28 02:02:48 <etotheipi_> you specify a "fingerprint" but it's binary
303 2012-11-28 02:03:03 <etotheipi_> and I'd like to specify an ASCII representation of it
304 2012-11-28 02:03:31 <etotheipi_> so that there is a human-identifiable way to refer to wallets (such as wallet 2Bdjk542)
305 2012-11-28 02:03:55 <etotheipi_> also I'd like a few more bytes in the in fingerprint than 4, to avoid collisions... but I don't know if I can avoid that entirely without going to 16 bytes
306 2012-11-28 02:07:58 <fiesh> is there a standardzied way to create a wallet that does not contain the private keys any more, so that one can comfortably use a bitcoind to follow balances without having to actually use a "hot" wallet?
307 2012-11-28 02:08:43 <etotheipi_> fiesh: www.bitcoinarmory.com
308 2012-11-28 02:09:24 <etotheipi_> create a wallet on a computer that never touches the internet, then create a watching-only copy to put on your online computer
309 2012-11-28 02:09:31 smiddi has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
310 2012-11-28 02:09:38 smiddi has joined
311 2012-11-28 02:09:39 <etotheipi_> you can generate addresses with the watching-only wallet, and confirm incoming payments
312 2012-11-28 02:10:15 <etotheipi_> and use a USB key to shuttle unsigned transactions to the offline computer for signing
313 2012-11-28 02:11:26 JZavala has joined
314 2012-11-28 02:11:28 <fiesh> etotheipi_: hmm, it doesn't have any rpc interface, does it? I don't want some graphical front end and that
315 2012-11-28 02:11:41 <etotheipi_> fiesh: no rpc interface
316 2012-11-28 02:11:52 <etotheipi_> didn't realize you were looking for that
317 2012-11-28 02:12:00 <etotheipi_> it has a python interface though
318 2012-11-28 02:12:14 <etotheipi_> there's a thread I can link you to about setting up an Armory server
319 2012-11-28 02:12:42 <etotheipi_> or rather, how to create and access Armory wallets like this from a webserver
320 2012-11-28 02:12:50 <etotheipi_> (or any process)
321 2012-11-28 02:13:07 <fiesh> hmm, if you have the link, I'll take a look, thanks
322 2012-11-28 02:13:16 <etotheipi_> if you don't use python.... not much for you there :-/
323 2012-11-28 02:13:25 <fiesh> heh then never mind ;) but thanks
324 2012-11-28 02:13:46 <fiesh> seems like a feature one would expect in the standard bitcoind -- strip a wallet of its private keys
325 2012-11-28 02:13:55 <etotheipi_> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=92496.0
326 2012-11-28 02:14:07 <etotheipi_> actually I think mav did create an RPC interface to it
327 2012-11-28 02:14:13 <fiesh> or, probably better, just allow the specification of addresses to be used in accounts, without having the private key
328 2012-11-28 02:14:59 <etotheipi_> fiesh: this is why I made Armory -- I couldn't believe that no one else was making such a system
329 2012-11-28 02:15:16 <etotheipi_> plus I had a lot of other ideas to integrate... like deterministic wallets so you only have to backup your wallet once, ever
330 2012-11-28 02:15:20 <fiesh> etotheipi_: hehe yes
331 2012-11-28 02:15:28 VronSKY is now known as Crimewave
332 2012-11-28 02:15:36 EPiSKiNG- has joined
333 2012-11-28 02:15:36 <fiesh> etotheipi_: yes that's really neat for users
334 2012-11-28 02:16:02 <etotheipi_> fiesh: mav posted his Armory mod to github and it does have a RPC interface similar to bitcoind: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=92496.20
335 2012-11-28 02:16:30 <etotheipi_> one day, I'll merge it into the main branch...
336 2012-11-28 02:17:12 <fiesh> etotheipi_: the features of armory are really nice
337 2012-11-28 02:17:16 <fiesh> oh, thanks, I'll take a look!
338 2012-11-28 02:17:54 <etotheipi_> fiesh: yeah, the problem (from your perspective) is that it's more directed at desktop users
339 2012-11-28 02:18:15 <fiesh> yes
340 2012-11-28 02:18:58 <etotheipi_> but I did market it as being useful for webservers, etc, I just hadn't gotten around to developing that part of it, yet
341 2012-11-28 02:19:06 <etotheipi_> apparently mav started that for me:)
342 2012-11-28 02:19:35 <fiesh> the deterministic wallet approach is actually very interesting for professional use
343 2012-11-28 02:20:18 <fiesh> so a server can produce as many addresses as desirable without having the private key for a single one
344 2012-11-28 02:20:24 <etotheipi_> exactly
345 2012-11-28 02:20:43 <fiesh> but it's not yet implemented?
346 2012-11-28 02:20:44 <etotheipi_> Bitcoin-Qt will soon have deterministic addresses, too; see https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0032
347 2012-11-28 02:21:13 <etotheipi_> determinstic wallets are implemented, offline & watching-only wallets are implemented
348 2012-11-28 02:21:29 <etotheipi_> I just haven't implemented the direct pieces needed to make webservers, etc
349 2012-11-28 02:22:23 <fiesh> hmm that's really nice
350 2012-11-28 02:23:20 <etotheipi_> try the desktop version, get familiar with the features... all of that *can* be available in the webserver if you need it
351 2012-11-28 02:23:49 <fiesh> hehe yeah but I'm not really into using the desktop version, sorry ;) And I think I can master its features hehe
352 2012-11-28 02:24:06 toffoo has quit ()
353 2012-11-28 02:24:17 <etotheipi_> fiesh: fair enough
354 2012-11-28 02:25:13 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
355 2012-11-28 02:25:21 <etotheipi_> I don't know your application, but it only takes a minute to create the wallet in offline mode and create watching-only wallet... then copy that to your webserver
356 2012-11-28 02:25:43 <fiesh> that might even be a software solution that can be marketed, an enterprise level bitcoin implementation that does all these things, not that I would want to develop it or pay for it though, hehe
357 2012-11-28 02:25:45 <etotheipi_> either way... let me know if you have any questions
358 2012-11-28 02:25:58 <fiesh> etotheipi_: is the watching only wallet still readable by bitcoind?
359 2012-11-28 02:26:05 <etotheipi_> fiesh: no
360 2012-11-28 02:26:13 <fiesh> :/
361 2012-11-28 02:26:19 <etotheipi_> fiesh: but it will be in the next couple months once we both upgrade our wallet formats
362 2012-11-28 02:26:29 <etotheipi_> but I don't know if Bitcoin-Qt will be supporting watching-only wallets at all
363 2012-11-28 02:26:34 <fiesh> that's good, so I'll have to wait a little
364 2012-11-28 02:26:51 <etotheipi_> if Bitcoin-Qt supported it, you wouldn't need Armory :)
365 2012-11-28 02:27:00 Bootstrapper has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
366 2012-11-28 02:27:07 <fiesh> well if it supports deterministic addresses, it amounts to the same thing, given that one can remove the initial private key?
367 2012-11-28 02:27:09 <etotheipi_> oh, you should look into Electrum too
368 2012-11-28 02:27:36 <fiesh> hmm that's an interesting reference, thanks!
369 2012-11-28 02:27:46 <etotheipi_> I think it does split wallets like that too
370 2012-11-28 02:27:50 <etotheipi_> and may be better for webservers
371 2012-11-28 02:28:04 <etotheipi_> I'm sure others here could speak to that more
372 2012-11-28 02:29:34 <gavinandresen> fiesh: if you encrypt a wallet.dat with a random key and then throw away the key it is essentially a watching-only wallet
373 2012-11-28 02:29:56 <gavinandresen> (copy it somewhere before encrypting, of course)
374 2012-11-28 02:30:23 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: but the watching-only and full wallets will not generate the same addresses
375 2012-11-28 02:30:23 <fiesh> gavinandresen: hmm yes, that's a simpler approach, thanks
376 2012-11-28 02:30:31 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: I'd appreciate feedback on the Invoices/Receipts/Payments proposal, if you have time
377 2012-11-28 02:30:44 <fiesh> so I just have to create a million addresses in advance ;)
378 2012-11-28 02:30:51 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: the watching-only can't generate new addresses if it is always encrypted
379 2012-11-28 02:31:01 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: I've been absorbing it... but my experience with this part of the crypto world is not very exhaustive
380 2012-11-28 02:31:08 <fiesh> deterministic watching-only would be better, but good enough I guess
381 2012-11-28 02:31:14 swulf--1 has joined
382 2012-11-28 02:32:09 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: the crypto part is pretty trivial, I'd like feedback on if it is something you can see Armory supporting (do you already use OpenSSL? Protocol buffers?)
383 2012-11-28 02:32:13 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: I want what you are proposing, and I'm willing to support it in Armory, I just don't know if I can contribute to the discussion
384 2012-11-28 02:32:48 <etotheipi_> I don't use either OpenSSL or protocol buffers, but they should both be pretty easy to pull in
385 2012-11-28 02:32:56 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: cool, I just want to make sure nobody who has actually done the work of implementing a client takes a look at it and says "NO WAY NO HOW!"
386 2012-11-28 02:33:28 swulf-- has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
387 2012-11-28 02:34:08 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: I've secretly been looking for an excuse to switch Armory to OpenSSL anyway
388 2012-11-28 02:34:22 <etotheipi_> I'm using the Crypto++ library, which has turned out to be pretty darned slow
389 2012-11-28 02:34:26 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: (I won't tell anybody, that'll be our little secret)
390 2012-11-28 02:35:51 <etotheipi_> I think it's a factor of 10 speed diff
391 2012-11-28 02:38:08 wizkid057 has joined
392 2012-11-28 02:42:54 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: how do you feel about creating a unified message-signing protocol?
393 2012-11-28 02:44:37 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: dunno, haven't thought about it. You mean generalizing to: given message m and some public key data p, you get a message with (m,p) signed with signature s ?
394 2012-11-28 02:44:44 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: like I have here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=56424.msg795036#msg795036
395 2012-11-28 02:45:08 <etotheipi_> it doesn't have to be exactly like that... but some way that unambiguously defines both a signature, what is being signed, and by what address
396 2012-11-28 02:45:25 <gavinandresen> ah. I don't see the benefit of signing with addresses.
397 2012-11-28 02:45:42 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: what do you mean?
398 2012-11-28 02:45:50 <etotheipi_> what do you sign with?
399 2012-11-28 02:46:04 <gavinandresen> in the Invoices proposal? SSL certificates.
400 2012-11-28 02:46:18 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: no, general message signing, not related to tthat proposal
401 2012-11-28 02:46:29 <etotheipi_> (sorry, should've made clear I was switching contexts on you)
402 2012-11-28 02:46:49 <gavinandresen> oh, you mean to prove that you own a bitcoin address?
403 2012-11-28 02:47:43 <etotheipi_> I don't like to think of it as "proving you own an address", but sending messages that could've only been created by the owner of that address (such as a cashout request with cashout address for some online service)
404 2012-11-28 02:48:32 <gavinandresen> got it. Umm.... not high on my priority list, but I'm not opposed to some standard way of doing it.
405 2012-11-28 02:49:09 <gavinandresen> I'm not a fan of the gpg ASCII-armored style for encoding...
406 2012-11-28 02:50:24 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: another little secret, don't tell anybody: https://gist.github.com/4073937
407 2012-11-28 02:51:18 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: what would you prefer? It seems like an ideal style for transmitting such data
408 2012-11-28 02:51:23 <gavinandresen> (related to the idea of "sending messages that could've only been created by the owner")
409 2012-11-28 02:51:50 <etotheipi_> for both BIP 10 and message signing, I ended up just implementing what met my own needs, because no one else wanted to help develop a more-versatile version
410 2012-11-28 02:52:03 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: protocol buffers are pretty spiffy; extensible, modern, easy to program in any language...
411 2012-11-28 02:52:21 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: for message signing, I want something that is clear text
412 2012-11-28 02:52:55 <etotheipi_> one of the main uses of it would be User:"Request payout", Server:"Please sign this message", User:"Okay, here it is"
413 2012-11-28 02:52:58 <gavinandresen> uff. Too late at night to get into a clear text versus binary for signing discussion. I started the day with that discussion.
414 2012-11-28 02:53:16 <etotheipi_> I don't want them copying around random byte strings
415 2012-11-28 02:53:18 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: no worries
416 2012-11-28 02:53:36 <gavinandresen> if they have to copy and paste then, in my view, the UI has failed.
417 2012-11-28 02:53:37 <etotheipi_> it's not high on my prioirty list either...
418 2012-11-28 02:53:51 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: I think there should be a URI version of it too
419 2012-11-28 02:54:31 <gavinandresen> URI version of public_key+message+signature?
420 2012-11-28 02:55:01 dvide has joined
421 2012-11-28 02:55:05 <etotheipi_> yes, to accomplish what I just said (server requests a signed confirmation of some action)
422 2012-11-28 02:55:06 <gavinandresen> The Javascript Object Signing and Encryption working group at the IETF has a JSON-based URI version of their stuff...
423 2012-11-28 02:55:24 <gavinandresen> ... but it scares the pants off me.
424 2012-11-28 02:56:39 <etotheipi_> I was thinking the URI version would simply be: signThisText+withThisAddress+sendSigToThisServer
425 2012-11-28 02:57:02 <etotheipi_> and the client would then present the user with what is expected to be signed, and then when they do it, it can dump the result where it was requested...
426 2012-11-28 02:57:58 <etotheipi_> but I don't think it's ridiculous to think that power users might want to manually handle these sigs ... one person creates a signature block and emails it t osomeone else
427 2012-11-28 02:58:08 <gavinandresen> for payouts?
428 2012-11-28 02:58:15 <etotheipi_> for anything account-related
429 2012-11-28 02:58:33 <etotheipi_> you have any kind of account, and you fund it with some initial address
430 2012-11-28 02:58:47 <gavinandresen> mmm. I dunno, go too far and you'll reinvent OAuth
431 2012-11-28 02:58:47 <etotheipi_> then all account actions from there forward would be expected to be confirmed with a sig from that address
432 2012-11-28 02:59:10 <etotheipi_> I don't know what that is... but it does enable completely anonymous online services
433 2012-11-28 02:59:45 <etotheipi_> you no longer need an email address or identity to open account... you just have to be able to sign messages with the initial funding address
434 2012-11-28 03:00:08 <etotheipi_> (I know anonymity is not a central goal of the project, but it's still elegant in my opinion)
435 2012-11-28 03:01:57 <gavinandresen> OAuth (and OAuth2) are designed as secure ways to grant access to accounts, with notions like authorization tokens that can be revoked in case you change your mind and don't actually want Twitter reading your facebook posts (or whatever)
436 2012-11-28 03:02:32 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: To be fair, picocoin does not have a node, really. picocoin is largely an offline client. Of course, the bits that are missing are easy to create, if you can write a Unix TCP server....
437 2012-11-28 03:02:35 <gavinandresen> I'm pretty sure you could use them to give anonymous access to accounts, and they've spent years thinking about how to do it right.
438 2012-11-28 03:03:07 <jgarzik> picocoin's lib already does the network messages and other bits needed to create a fast block relay server
439 2012-11-28 03:03:09 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: I'll look into it
440 2012-11-28 03:03:13 <jgarzik> just need the non-bitcoin bits :)
441 2012-11-28 03:05:02 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: of course they probably have a gazillion features that aren't relevant to the problem you want to solve...
442 2012-11-28 03:05:50 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: well you already have a message signing interface in Bitcoin-Qt... I was just suggesting you expand it with something more user-friendly
443 2012-11-28 03:06:13 <etotheipi_> i.e. something that won't fail because of whitespace differences, etc
444 2012-11-28 03:06:17 <etotheipi_> it doesn't have to be my way
445 2012-11-28 03:06:17 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: is it just me, or does 2112 on the forums TRY to be annoying?
446 2012-11-28 03:07:45 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: indeed :/ _Just_ now was in the process of deep breathing, after reading yet another of his messages in my new picocoin thread.
447 2012-11-28 03:08:21 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: "Here, let me tell you how to do your job. Sorry I can't help, I'm too busy."
448 2012-11-28 03:08:41 <jgarzik> pretty much :)
449 2012-11-28 03:08:48 <gmaxwell> wow, that post is pretty impressive.
450 2012-11-28 03:09:08 <gmaxwell> Just needs a few randomly placed "lol"s to complete the irritation full monty.
451 2012-11-28 03:09:09 maaku has joined
452 2012-11-28 03:10:32 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: I'm not convinced that your OAuth reference is in the same scope -- I'm thinking of things as simple as: I ordered something online, and something went wrong and need a refund or change shipping address. So I email the merchant with a signature block telling them what to do...
453 2012-11-28 03:11:15 <jgarzik> The appropriate reply to 2112 is "you have no fscking clue what you are talking about, and $here's $why" ;p
454 2012-11-28 03:11:26 <jgarzik> I mainly reply to him for other readers, not him
455 2012-11-28 03:11:32 <etotheipi_> it kind of accomplishes the reverse of the invoice proposal ...
456 2012-11-28 03:12:26 <etotheipi_> we already have 90% of it, I just wanted to expand it to be a little easier to use that copying raw hex strings around
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464 2012-11-28 03:56:03 grondilu has joined
465 2012-11-28 03:56:39 <grondilu> Bitcoin address validation on rosetta-code: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Bitcoin/address_validation
466 2012-11-28 03:56:51 <grondilu> ^ add yours :)
467 2012-11-28 03:59:48 <jgarzik> BFL update ("chips flawed... delay"): https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/437-asic-update-26-november-2012-a.html
468 2012-11-28 04:01:03 wizkid057 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
469 2012-11-28 04:01:55 <jgarzik> forum sure is slow
470 2012-11-28 04:02:38 Bootstrapper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
471 2012-11-28 04:02:57 stamit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
472 2012-11-28 04:03:36 <jgarzik> picocoin report out of the blue: "Everything builds and tests pass on MacOS X 10.7."
473 2012-11-28 04:03:39 <jgarzik> w00t
474 2012-11-28 04:05:49 wizkid057 has joined
475 2012-11-28 04:16:13 <i18n> oh yeah, i meant to try that on my mac
476 2012-11-28 04:16:23 ThiagoCMC has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
477 2012-11-28 04:16:25 <i18n> last time i tried it i got 'failed to start engine'
478 2012-11-28 04:17:12 ThiagoCMC has joined
479 2012-11-28 04:17:50 <jgarzik> i18n: about the most exciting thing it can do is pass tests ;-)
480 2012-11-28 04:17:55 <jgarzik> i18n: but that was a big step
481 2012-11-28 04:18:32 <i18n> well if i understand it correctly it seems very cool
482 2012-11-28 04:19:05 <i18n> i'm on 10.8 here anything i can do to help test it?
483 2012-11-28 04:19:32 <jgarzik> i18n: if you can run "make all check" on 10.8, that would be useful
484 2012-11-28 04:20:03 <jgarzik> i18n: build should be familiar, it's autotools: ./autogen.sh ; ./configure ; make -s all check
485 2012-11-28 04:20:15 <jgarzik> Let me know if autogen.sh fails... I can provide a tarball that skips that step
486 2012-11-28 04:20:39 <i18n> autogen works but it gives 3 warnings of the samething
487 2012-11-28 04:20:45 <i18n> lib/Makefile.am:2: warning: 'INCLUDES' is the old name for 'AM_CPPFLAGS' (or '*_CPPFLAGS')
488 2012-11-28 04:21:16 <i18n> All 13 tests passed
489 2012-11-28 04:21:17 <i18n> (1 test was not run)
490 2012-11-28 04:21:59 <jgarzik> yay
491 2012-11-28 04:22:12 * jgarzik makes a note re AM_CPPFLAGS
492 2012-11-28 04:22:19 <jgarzik> that warning sounds accurate to me
493 2012-11-28 04:22:55 <jgarzik> now to find someone on BSD...
494 2012-11-28 04:22:56 <jgarzik> ;p
495 2012-11-28 04:23:03 <jgarzik> where is jrmithdobbs when you need him
496 2012-11-28 04:23:09 <i18n> i have an account on a server running freebsd :)
497 2012-11-28 04:23:12 <i18n> friend's server
498 2012-11-28 04:23:23 PhantomSpark has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
499 2012-11-28 04:23:31 <i18n> want me to do the same thing there?
500 2012-11-28 04:24:02 <jgarzik> i18n: if you don't mind... sure! If autogen.sh fails on BSD, "make dist" on OSX should give you a tarball with working configure script
501 2012-11-28 04:24:04 <i18n> does it actually work yet? i tried running netsync a while ago and just now and i'm getting 'failed to start engine'
502 2012-11-28 04:24:19 <jgarzik> i18n: client does not work yet, no
503 2012-11-28 04:24:23 <i18n> aww
504 2012-11-28 04:24:43 <i18n> that explains the lack of documentation
505 2012-11-28 04:25:01 <jgarzik> well it half works. you can generate an address, and receive payments. but without being able to spend payments, that's a bit useless ;p
506 2012-11-28 04:25:05 <i18n> jgarzik: same three warnings
507 2012-11-28 04:25:42 <i18n> i think i have to have the friend install libevent and jansson... and maybe glib
508 2012-11-28 04:26:20 <jgarzik> i18n: bsd ports should likely have libevent and glib. not sure about jansson.
509 2012-11-28 04:26:32 <i18n> he gave me sudo but i don't know how to use ports
510 2012-11-28 04:27:11 <jgarzik> me either :/
511 2012-11-28 04:27:26 arij has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
512 2012-11-28 04:27:28 * jgarzik just knows it's "that place where they stick software everybody needs" ;p
513 2012-11-28 04:27:47 <i18n> emerge libevent jansson
514 2012-11-28 04:28:00 i18n is now known as andrew12-
515 2012-11-28 04:29:02 <denisx> jgarzik: you someone with a freebsd machine?=
516 2012-11-28 04:30:05 <jgarzik> denisx: Would be nice to see what happens when you build picocoin on freebsd, yes. https://github.com/jgarzik/picocoin/
517 2012-11-28 04:30:16 <denisx> jgarzik: ok, I give it a go
518 2012-11-28 04:30:51 <jgarzik> denisx: build should be familiar, it's autotools: ./autogen.sh ; ./configure ; make -s all check If autogen.sh fails, I can create a tarball for you, that skips that step.
519 2012-11-28 04:30:54 grondilu has left ()
520 2012-11-28 04:31:24 <jgarzik> denisx: deps: GLib (from GTK project), OpenSSL w/ ECDSA, libevent, jansson
521 2012-11-28 04:31:25 <denisx> autogen worked
522 2012-11-28 04:31:52 <denisx> libevent or libevent?
523 2012-11-28 04:31:57 <denisx> libevent2?
524 2012-11-28 04:32:18 <jgarzik> denisx: libevent2 is what I use here
525 2012-11-28 04:32:22 <denisx> jgarzik: ok
526 2012-11-28 04:32:26 <jgarzik> libevent 1.x might work in a pinch
527 2012-11-28 04:33:00 <denisx> I upgrded your pushpool last year to libevent2 after hunting for a memory leak
528 2012-11-28 04:33:06 <denisx> with libevent2 it went away
529 2012-11-28 04:33:36 <denisx> btw I'm using clang here already
530 2012-11-28 04:33:55 <jgarzik> interesting += 2
531 2012-11-28 04:34:13 <jgarzik> denisx: I'd be happy to accept a pushpool pull request for that, FWIW
532 2012-11-28 04:35:43 <denisx> checking for event_base_new in -levent... no
533 2012-11-28 04:35:44 <denisx> configure: error: Missing required libevent
534 2012-11-28 04:36:07 <denisx> sure its libevent2?
535 2012-11-28 04:36:42 <jgarzik> libevent-2.0.18-1.fc17.x86_64
536 2012-11-28 04:36:42 <jgarzik> libevent-debuginfo-2.0.18-1.fc17.x86_64
537 2012-11-28 04:36:42 <jgarzik> libevent-devel-2.0.18-1.fc17.x86_64
538 2012-11-28 04:36:47 <denisx> ok
539 2012-11-28 04:37:23 <jgarzik> denisx: maybe they renamed the lib, on bsd?
540 2012-11-28 04:37:29 <denisx> no
541 2012-11-28 04:38:17 <jgarzik> odd
542 2012-11-28 04:39:46 <denisx> I think it simply does not know they are in /usr/local/lib...
543 2012-11-28 04:39:59 <denisx> same happened to jansson
544 2012-11-28 04:40:38 <denisx> dns.c: In function 'add_seed_addr':
545 2012-11-28 04:40:39 <denisx> dns.c:33: error: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type
546 2012-11-28 04:40:55 <denisx> also in 38
547 2012-11-28 04:41:08 <jgarzik> denisx: ah. so CFLAGS="-O2 -Wall -g -I/usr/include/include" LDFLAGS="-L/usr/local/lib" ./configure
548 2012-11-28 04:42:16 <jgarzik> denisx: /me guesses dns.c wants #include <netinet/in.h> or netinet/in6.h
549 2012-11-28 04:43:36 <denisx> installing jansson...
550 2012-11-28 04:43:58 <denisx> and why you linux guys always assume that everybody uses bash? ;)
551 2012-11-28 04:44:30 <ThiagoCMC> is another shell out there?!
552 2012-11-28 04:44:34 <ThiagoCMC> =P
553 2012-11-28 04:44:44 <denisx> ThiagoCMC: thousands!
554 2012-11-28 04:44:52 <ThiagoCMC> =)
555 2012-11-28 04:45:09 <jgarzik> denisx: confirmed... dns.c needs #include <netinet/in.h>
556 2012-11-28 04:45:18 <jgarzik> let me know if that fixes that one
557 2012-11-28 04:45:38 <denisx> <netinet/in.h> did help
558 2012-11-28 04:45:47 <denisx> ok, it builds fine
559 2012-11-28 04:46:05 <denisx> oh wait, I was only in lib
560 2012-11-28 04:46:14 <denisx> main.c: In function 'list_dns_seeds':
561 2012-11-28 04:46:14 <denisx> main.c:174: error: storage size of 'saddr' isn't known
562 2012-11-28 04:46:18 <denisx> same thing I assume
563 2012-11-28 04:47:21 <denisx> ok, I added netinet/in.h to main.c
564 2012-11-28 04:47:26 <denisx> and then this:
565 2012-11-28 04:47:29 <denisx> net.c:23:19: error: event.h: No such file or directory
566 2012-11-28 04:47:30 <denisx> net.c: In function 'nc_conn_free':
567 2012-11-28 04:48:01 <jgarzik> denisx: just downloaded libevent2 sources. I think the entire project needs s#event.h#event2/event.h#g
568 2012-11-28 04:48:05 <denisx> ah, your CFLAGS needs to be /usr/local/include and not /usr/include/include
569 2012-11-28 04:48:13 <jgarzik> heh
570 2012-11-28 04:48:13 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
571 2012-11-28 04:48:23 [7] has joined
572 2012-11-28 04:48:26 <jgarzik> event.h is deprecated, but should still work
573 2012-11-28 04:48:39 stamit has joined
574 2012-11-28 04:48:40 <jgarzik> event2/event.h is preferred in libevent2, it seems
575 2012-11-28 04:50:12 <denisx> ok, problems with linking now:
576 2012-11-28 04:50:13 <denisx> wallet.o: In function `wallet_new':
577 2012-11-28 04:50:30 <denisx> home/denis/picocoin/src/wallet.c:29: undefined reference to `g_ptr_array_new_full'
578 2012-11-28 04:51:09 <denisx> home/denis/picocoin/lib/blkdb.c:241: undefined reference to `fdatasync'
579 2012-11-28 04:52:13 <jgarzik> denisx: OK, the latter is expected, and a bug that wants fixing. Just need to s/fdatasync/fsync/ on BSD
580 2012-11-28 04:52:31 <jgarzik> denisx: for the former... can you confirm that your libglib2 has at least _some_ g_ptr_array_* symbols?
581 2012-11-28 04:52:58 <jgarzik> denisx: unclear whether your GLib is missing a new feature picocoin wants, or something else is broken
582 2012-11-28 04:53:27 <denisx> hmm, since configure did not check for glib2...
583 2012-11-28 04:54:02 <denisx> building it right now
584 2012-11-28 04:54:23 <jgarzik> denisx: configure should check for glib >= 2.0.0, but that may be insufficient
585 2012-11-28 04:54:35 <jgarzik> denisx: I need to add an fdatasync check to configure, definitely
586 2012-11-28 04:55:14 <jgarzik> AC_CHECK_FUNCS(fdatasync)
587 2012-11-28 04:55:23 <jgarzik> hah! I do check for it. Just need to actually check the check ;-)
588 2012-11-28 04:55:48 hahuang65 has joined
589 2012-11-28 04:59:11 <denisx> I had glib-2.28.8_3
590 2012-11-28 04:59:16 <denisx> now Im building glib-2.28.8_4
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595 2012-11-28 05:09:28 <denisx> it has lots of g_ptr_array_* but not g_ptr_array_full
596 2012-11-28 05:10:22 <jgarzik> denisx: OK, sounds like my code requires an even newer GLib. can you tell me (or pastebin) what g_ptr_array_new* functions it does have?
597 2012-11-28 05:10:51 <jgarzik> denisx: I presume you mean g_ptr_array_new_full and not g_ptr_array_full ?
598 2012-11-28 05:11:05 <denisx> http://pastebin.com/1PSHn5s9
599 2012-11-28 05:11:26 <denisx> aeh, yes
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601 2012-11-28 05:12:31 sacredchao has joined
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603 2012-11-28 05:19:43 <jgarzik> denisx: OK, good
604 2012-11-28 05:19:54 <jgarzik> denisx: it supports a freeing function (destructor)
605 2012-11-28 05:20:37 <jgarzik> denisx: g_ptr_array_new_full(n, func) may be safely replaced with g_ptr_array_new_with_free_func(func)
606 2012-11-28 05:20:48 <jgarzik> manually or via #define
607 2012-11-28 05:27:31 <denisx> tata: src/picocoin: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (FreeBSD), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for FreeBSD 9.1 (901501), not stripped
608 2012-11-28 05:27:37 <etotheipi_> did version 0.7.X change the way blkindex.dat is created/stored? I seem to be having an issue with blkindex.dat corruption...
609 2012-11-28 05:27:43 eoss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
610 2012-11-28 05:27:56 <etotheipi_> it seems to be kind of fragile
611 2012-11-28 05:28:38 <jgarzik> denisx: "make check" work?
612 2012-11-28 05:29:06 <denisx> All 13 tests passed
613 2012-11-28 05:29:12 <denisx> (1 test was not run)
614 2012-11-28 05:29:22 <denisx> SKIP: chain-verf
615 2012-11-28 05:29:22 <jgarzik> denisx: hooray! that's the best goal, for now
616 2012-11-28 05:29:42 <jgarzik> denisx: I've pushed all BSD fixes out to git, except the GLib _new_full one, so far
617 2012-11-28 05:30:38 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: more details?
618 2012-11-28 05:30:56 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell: just more frequently am I observing it, usually due to VM crashing
619 2012-11-28 05:31:15 <etotheipi_> or system crashing
620 2012-11-28 05:31:25 <etotheipi_> just wondering if anything's changed, or if I'm just crashing more
621 2012-11-28 05:31:27 <etotheipi_> :)
622 2012-11-28 05:32:06 <denisx> the bsd diff: http://pastebin.com/hyhK3jmE
623 2012-11-28 05:34:41 <jgarzik> denisx: thanks, this has been a great help
624 2012-11-28 05:34:47 <denisx> your welcome
625 2012-11-28 05:35:12 <jgarzik> denisx: it looks like I got all those except the _new_full change in git
626 2012-11-28 05:35:37 <jgarzik> denisx: any chance you could re-verify vanilla git builds, in about 5 min?
627 2012-11-28 05:35:46 <denisx> sure
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630 2012-11-28 05:37:44 [\\\] is now known as Matthew_n_wright
631 2012-11-28 05:37:54 <jgarzik> or maybe 15 min. gotta find when that func was added ;p
632 2012-11-28 05:38:04 <jgarzik> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/commits-list/2011-July/msg08239.html
633 2012-11-28 05:38:19 Matthew_n_wright is now known as [\\\\\\\\\\\\\\]
634 2012-11-28 05:39:37 <jgarzik> 2.30 it seems
635 2012-11-28 05:40:46 <denisx> I updated my ports yesterday
636 2012-11-28 05:40:53 [\\\\\\\\\\\\\\] is now known as [\\\]
637 2012-11-28 05:40:54 <denisx> so 2.28 is all you get
638 2012-11-28 05:41:35 [\\\] is now known as `0
639 2012-11-28 05:42:50 <jgarzik> denisx: that's fine. I'm going to add code to detect the version at compile time, and work around automatically, to support all versions. well, looks like this will take a while, so don't wait around for me.
640 2012-11-28 05:43:06 <jgarzik> #if glibversion >= 2.30 blah blah
641 2012-11-28 05:43:11 Icoin has quit (Quit: Icoin)
642 2012-11-28 05:43:21 <denisx> its just three lines...
643 2012-11-28 05:45:25 <jgarzik> denisx: you mean, only three lines to change?
644 2012-11-28 05:45:48 <denisx> you could simply add the code from the new function
645 2012-11-28 05:45:56 <denisx> yeah
646 2012-11-28 05:46:41 <jgarzik> denisx: Yes, my plan is basically: if (_new_full not present) { implement _new_full wrapper }
647 2012-11-28 05:46:47 <jgarzik> denisx: that magically makes all callsites work
648 2012-11-28 05:46:57 <jgarzik> and works for older and newer GLib
649 2012-11-28 05:47:21 <jgarzik> however... no clue how to check GLib version at compile time
650 2012-11-28 05:47:41 <jgarzik> I can easily check the version at configure time, but it needs to happen at compile time to implement the wrapper
651 2012-11-28 05:48:08 <denisx> jgarzik: but you dont need to, even if the new glib is there you can use the wrapper
652 2012-11-28 05:48:15 <denisx> in the end it is the same code
653 2012-11-28 05:48:56 * jgarzik goes to peek at glib git, to see if indeed it is the same code...
654 2012-11-28 05:49:58 <jgarzik> array = g_ptr_array_sized_new (reserved_size);
655 2012-11-28 05:49:58 <jgarzik> g_ptr_array_set_free_func (array, element_free_func);
656 2012-11-28 05:52:10 <jgarzik> ok, found it: /usr/include/glib-2.0/glib/gversionmacros.h
657 2012-11-28 06:04:09 <jgarzik> denisx: fixes pushed out. yell at me, if vanilla picocoin.git HEAD does not build for you.
658 2012-11-28 06:04:29 <denisx> jgarzik: so I can git reset --hard and pull again?
659 2012-11-28 06:04:47 <jgarzik> denisx: yes
660 2012-11-28 06:05:18 <denisx> ok
661 2012-11-28 06:07:12 <denisx> jgarzik: I still need to set LDFLAGS="-L/usr/local/lib"
662 2012-11-28 06:07:25 <jgarzik> denisx: yeah that's expected
663 2012-11-28 06:07:40 <jgarzik> denisx: I would have guessed CFLAGS+=-I/usr/local/include too
664 2012-11-28 06:07:49 <denisx> yes, seems so
665 2012-11-28 06:08:51 <denisx> In file included from addr_match.c:11:
666 2012-11-28 06:08:52 <denisx> ../include/ccoin/compat.h:13:48: error: missing binary operator before token "("
667 2012-11-28 06:08:53 <denisx> addr_match.c: In function 'bp_block_match':
668 2012-11-28 06:08:54 <denisx> addr_match.c:129: warning: implicit declaration of function 'g_ptr_array_new_full'
669 2012-11-28 06:08:55 <denisx> addr_match.c:130: warning: initialization makes pointer from integer without a cast
670 2012-11-28 06:08:56 <denisx> *** [addr_match.o] Error code 1
671 2012-11-28 06:10:07 <jgarzik> denisx: does it work if you add parens?
672 2012-11-28 06:10:09 <jgarzik> #if GLIB_VERSION_CUR_STABLE < (G_ENCODE_VERSION (2, 30))
673 2012-11-28 06:10:34 <jgarzik> or if even that fails,
674 2012-11-28 06:10:45 <jgarzik> #if (GLIB_VERSION_CUR_STABLE) < (G_ENCODE_VERSION(2, 30))
675 2012-11-28 06:10:48 * jgarzik is paranoid
676 2012-11-28 06:11:00 <jgarzik> sounds like a clang thing
677 2012-11-28 06:11:13 <denisx> clang is very picky
678 2012-11-28 06:11:22 <denisx> and that is a good thing
679 2012-11-28 06:11:41 <jgarzik> agreed... most of the time ;p
680 2012-11-28 06:11:52 <jgarzik> I worked on getting the kernel to compile under clang, and filed several clang bugs
681 2012-11-28 06:12:12 <denisx> yeah, freebsd did that too
682 2012-11-28 06:12:28 <denisx> but also clang found alot of bugs in the kernel too I think
683 2012-11-28 06:12:36 <denisx> so win/win ;)
684 2012-11-28 06:12:49 <denisx> parens does not help
685 2012-11-28 06:12:56 <jgarzik> hrm
686 2012-11-28 06:13:37 <jgarzik> denisx: did you try paranoid version #2 as written? I removed a space that might be important to some cpp parsers
687 2012-11-28 06:13:49 <jgarzik> sometimes function macros are detected with "string("
688 2012-11-28 06:19:49 <denisx> hmm, tried alot, but nothing works
689 2012-11-28 06:19:53 <denisx> btw it is still gcc
690 2012-11-28 06:20:02 <jgarzik> doubtly odd
691 2012-11-28 06:20:06 <jgarzik> doubly
692 2012-11-28 06:20:16 <denisx> you should use cc and not gcc for CC=
693 2012-11-28 06:21:03 <jgarzik> denisx: how about changing to the simpler
694 2012-11-28 06:21:07 <jgarzik> #ifndef GLIB_VERSION_2_30
695 2012-11-28 06:21:42 <denisx> yes!
696 2012-11-28 06:21:51 sudog has joined
697 2012-11-28 06:23:45 <jgarzik> denisx: could you now try git reset / build / check?
698 2012-11-28 06:26:26 `0 is now known as [\\\]
699 2012-11-28 06:26:42 <jgarzik> er
700 2012-11-28 06:26:47 <jgarzik> reset/pull/build/check
701 2012-11-28 06:26:53 <jgarzik> ITYKWIM
702 2012-11-28 06:27:05 <denisx> how did I check again?
703 2012-11-28 06:27:10 <denisx> builds fine now
704 2012-11-28 06:27:23 <denisx> make check all?
705 2012-11-28 06:27:36 <denisx> looks good
706 2012-11-28 06:27:45 <denisx> passed all 13 again
707 2012-11-28 06:28:05 <jgarzik> denisx: gold star for you, sir
708 2012-11-28 06:28:42 <jgarzik> denisx: future BSD users of libccoin will thank you
709 2012-11-28 06:28:44 <denisx> you just need to add usr/local/include and /usr/local/lib somehow for freebsd
710 2012-11-28 06:29:02 <denisx> then it will be a simple configure/make
711 2012-11-28 06:29:49 <jgarzik> denisx: do most other autotools-based packages work out of the box on BSD, automatically including /usr/local as appropriate? It seemed like the GNU folks wanted it this way, but I agree, Just Working seems easier if this is common
712 2012-11-28 06:30:20 <denisx> yes
713 2012-11-28 06:31:14 <Gladamas> Does anyone know, if you find a share on p2pool that is lower than the current BTC difficulty (a block) but it gets orphaned on the P2Pool share chain, is it still submitted to the Bitcoin network as a block?
714 2012-11-28 06:31:39 <Gladamas> nvm
715 2012-11-28 06:32:00 <denisx> jgarzik: take a look at this: https://github.com/ckolivas/cgminer/commit/30ade169ef08e8222b4de21c844dffd68b07d1a4
716 2012-11-28 06:32:12 <denisx> so you can simply add it to configure.ac
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721 2012-11-28 06:40:41 <denisx> jgarzik: and in freebsd 10 there is no gcc anymore by default
722 2012-11-28 06:41:05 <denisx> they switched completely 2 or 3 weeks ago
723 2012-11-28 06:41:16 RazielZ has joined
724 2012-11-28 06:41:28 <jgarzik> denisx: yeah saw that. pretty cool.
725 2012-11-28 06:42:07 <jgarzik> denisx: GNU has always been a dinosaur. It shined briefly, in the version 1.x days, on Sun. Other than that, it's been a tech laggart.
726 2012-11-28 06:42:43 <denisx> jgarzik: I woulndt be that hard, but some other compiler is always a good thing
727 2012-11-28 06:42:54 <jgarzik> gcc has been an extraordinarily valuable tool from a free-software, freedom perspective. But from a technology perspective, it's a dinosaur.
728 2012-11-28 06:43:22 <jgarzik> It's only recently come out of that shell with GIMPLE and other advancements, but LLVM, ORC and other compilers had already surpassed it.
729 2012-11-28 06:44:33 <gmaxwell> meh. LLVM is sexy but the results on actual code are fairly mixed for all it's jazz. GCC is is the unstoppable soviet tank, for better or worse. :P
730 2012-11-28 06:44:53 <jgarzik> Stallman resisted "gcc plugins" for so long, thinking them an avenue for proprietary compiler people to lock away secrets forever. But all he really did was make it difficult to experiment with changing the compiler passes and other core features.
731 2012-11-28 06:45:28 <jgarzik> LLVM got the bitcode/API angle right. LLVM structurally evolves faster.
732 2012-11-28 06:46:37 <jgarzik> Stallman ossified an internal compiler structure, whereas LLVM makes it easier to fork, work around or totally replace internal compiler logic.
733 2012-11-28 06:46:52 <denisx> gmaxwell: but the heavy tank is only rolling because the mass moment of inertia and not because the motor is still running ;)
734 2012-11-28 06:47:16 <gmaxwell> In the meantime, you have companies like qualcomm who are agressively patenting behind contributions to CLANG/LLVM because there is no contributor agreement that discourages them from doing so. BSD-implied-patent-license is untested in court. It's quite possible that that whole thing is just building up to be mobile patent war 2.0. :(
735 2012-11-28 06:47:44 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: I'm sure Apple's got some in there too
736 2012-11-28 06:47:53 <gmaxwell> No doubt.
737 2012-11-28 06:48:08 <gmaxwell> And since apple never begins patent wars of agression, everything is safe!
738 2012-11-28 06:48:10 <gmaxwell> :P
739 2012-11-28 06:48:37 <jgarzik> heh, another 2112 reply in my picocoin thread. this should be interesting.
740 2012-11-28 06:49:14 <gmaxwell> denisx: again, go actually benchmark the resulting code. It might be through sheer will or what have youâ but on many (most? a representative sample is hard) codebases GCC continues to generate superior code. It does compile a lot slower at lower optimization levels though.
741 2012-11-28 06:49:33 <gmaxwell> The competition is good though and its improving both of them.
742 2012-11-28 06:49:58 <jgarzik> sure, no argument LLVM generate code can be slower than gcc
743 2012-11-28 06:50:20 <denisx> gmaxwell: yes. in most benchmarks they have mixed results
744 2012-11-28 06:50:52 <jgarzik> my only argument is the LLVM codebase is better suited for rapid development and rapid improvement, and current pace of improvement bears that out
745 2012-11-28 06:51:01 <gmaxwell> And the llvm/clang ecosystem has some nice things. Clang static analysis is simply fantastic. almost as good as coverity without having to deal with a moronic company.
746 2012-11-28 06:51:06 <jgarzik> llvm code generation on !x86 is still poor
747 2012-11-28 06:51:25 <denisx> except arm?
748 2012-11-28 06:51:34 <jgarzik> yes
749 2012-11-28 06:51:41 <gmaxwell> I was going to sayâ well GCC has always been surprisingly .. er. uncreative on arm.
750 2012-11-28 06:53:14 <jgarzik> there is a mountain of muscle behind x86 opt, for gcc of course, but recently for llvm as well. New graphics default is always-OpenGL, with non-GL situations passed to "LLVMpipe" People have been working hard to bring every little trick to LLVM x86, even outside Apple
751 2012-11-28 06:53:29 <jgarzik> ARM and PPC limp along on LLVM
752 2012-11-28 06:54:20 <denisx> one should assume that apple does alot for arm on llvm
753 2012-11-28 06:54:28 <denisx> that is not the case?
754 2012-11-28 06:55:46 devrandom has joined
755 2012-11-28 06:56:17 swulf-- has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
756 2012-11-28 06:56:47 <gmaxwell> I love how the guy yells at you about 'bare metal' then throws some MSVC C++ code at you. ;P
757 2012-11-28 06:57:14 <jgarzik> denisx: sure doesn't show up in our ARM benchmarks at least.
758 2012-11-28 06:57:21 <jgarzik> we've been looking at ARM on Fedora recently
759 2012-11-28 06:57:23 <gmaxwell> What is his obsession with the unions?
760 2012-11-28 06:57:28 <jgarzik> (we == Red Hat)
761 2012-11-28 06:57:56 fred123 has left ("Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com")
762 2012-11-28 06:58:44 <gmaxwell> (an the idea of using a single compilation unit for demonstrating the performance implications of ... well anything)
763 2012-11-28 07:00:34 BlackPrapor has joined
764 2012-11-28 07:01:07 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: what
765 2012-11-28 07:01:29 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: was trying to find *BSD builders for my bitcoin lib
766 2012-11-28 07:02:08 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: ISTR you filing BSD build fix reports in the past for the main bitcoin project, and was trolling. denisx helped me out w/ FreeBSD.
767 2012-11-28 07:02:22 <jgarzik> so all good
768 2012-11-28 07:02:45 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: i have a couple openbsd 5.1 boxes i could test on if you'd like
769 2012-11-28 07:03:02 <jrmithdobbs> (really need to get around to upgrading those to 5.2)
770 2012-11-28 07:03:18 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: on your github somewhere?
771 2012-11-28 07:03:53 <denisx> I did also complain here about some freebsd love for bitcoind ;)
772 2012-11-28 07:04:42 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: https://github.com/jgarzik/picocoin/
773 2012-11-28 07:04:45 <jrmithdobbs> denisx: i fixed it but broke static building (which as far as my testing can find, is broken anyways everywhere i've tried to use it, but w/e) and then forgot about it :P
774 2012-11-28 07:05:10 ThomasV_ has joined
775 2012-11-28 07:05:12 <_dr> yeah, bsd support would indeed be nice
776 2012-11-28 07:05:13 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: deps: GLib 2.x, jansson, libevent2, OpenSSL, autotools.
777 2012-11-28 07:05:18 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
778 2012-11-28 07:05:33 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: ./autogen.sh ; ./configure ; make all check
779 2012-11-28 07:05:36 <_dr> having a wallet on openbsd makes perfect sense :)
780 2012-11-28 07:05:44 ThomasV_ has quit (Client Quit)
781 2012-11-28 07:06:09 <jrmithdobbs> _dr: oh, openbsd was still broken. I just fixed the building. 5.2 includes some changes that should make it actually *work* (the threading work that was done)
782 2012-11-28 07:06:39 <_dr> i did get it running on 5.1
783 2012-11-28 07:06:48 <jrmithdobbs> but tests fail
784 2012-11-28 07:07:15 <jrmithdobbs> most operations seemed to work but I wouldn't put anything with value through it running on openbsd
785 2012-11-28 07:07:32 <_dr> okay, i wouldn't know about that. i just patched some includes and IFDEFS and was happy the binary actually worked
786 2012-11-28 07:07:38 <denisx> my pool runs on freebsd with bitcoind and pushpoold
787 2012-11-28 07:07:41 ByronJohnson has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
788 2012-11-28 07:07:52 <jrmithdobbs> ya it works correctly on freebsd :P
789 2012-11-28 07:08:57 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: got a link for jansson?
790 2012-11-28 07:09:17 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: http://www.digip.org/jansson/ ?
791 2012-11-28 07:09:29 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: yeah. http://www.digip.org/jansson/releases/
792 2012-11-28 07:09:47 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: tested with jansson 2.1
793 2012-11-28 07:09:55 <jgarzik> but probably works with newer
794 2012-11-28 07:13:25 tonikt has quit (Quit: Leaving)
795 2012-11-28 07:13:37 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: there not a way to specify the jansson install location?
796 2012-11-28 07:14:05 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: tried --with-jansson and --with-libjansson
797 2012-11-28 07:14:15 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: dunno. I'm a pampered Linux baby who never worries about that stuff ;p
798 2012-11-28 07:14:16 <jrmithdobbs> (with =PATH obviously)
799 2012-11-28 07:14:41 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: oh, you mean in picocoin?
800 2012-11-28 07:14:45 <jrmithdobbs> yes
801 2012-11-28 07:14:58 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: CFLAGS+=-I/usr/local/include LDFLAGS+=-L/usr/local/lib
802 2012-11-28 07:15:06 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: when running configure
803 2012-11-28 07:15:16 <jgarzik> (depends on your shell, obviously)
804 2012-11-28 07:15:20 <jrmithdobbs> k
805 2012-11-28 07:15:59 <jgarzik> CFLAGS="-O2 -Wall -g -I/usr/local/include" LDFLAGS="-L/usr/local/lib" ./configure
806 2012-11-28 07:16:10 <jgarzik> or appropriate for your shell
807 2012-11-28 07:16:25 maaku has joined
808 2012-11-28 07:19:00 <jrmithdobbs> gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I.. -I/usr/local/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/local/lib/glib-2.0/include -I../include -O2 -Wall -g -I/opt/OpenBSD/5.1/amd64/jansson-2.4/include -MT addr_match.o -MD -MP -MF .deps/addr_match.Tpo -c -o addr_match.o addr_match.c
809 2012-11-28 07:19:05 <jrmithdobbs> In file included from addr_match.c:11:
810 2012-11-28 07:19:07 <jrmithdobbs> ../include/ccoin/compat.h:17: error: static declaration of 'g_ptr_array_new_full' follows non-static declaration
811 2012-11-28 07:19:10 <jrmithdobbs> /usr/local/include/glib-2.0/glib/garray.h:116: error: previous declaration of 'g_ptr_array_new_full' was here
812 2012-11-28 07:19:13 <jrmithdobbs> *** Error code 1
813 2012-11-28 07:19:18 Silverion has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
814 2012-11-28 07:19:30 <jrmithdobbs> heh
815 2012-11-28 07:19:39 <jrmithdobbs> fuckin shit glib headers strike again
816 2012-11-28 07:21:06 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: hrm odd
817 2012-11-28 07:21:24 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: what version of GLib is installed?
818 2012-11-28 07:22:02 <jrmithdobbs> glib2-2.30.2p5 general-purpose utility library
819 2012-11-28 07:23:08 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: GLIB_VERSION_2_30 symbol missing somehow, it seems
820 2012-11-28 07:23:13 <jgarzik> *is missing
821 2012-11-28 07:23:30 emryss has joined
822 2012-11-28 07:23:41 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: is that symbol in your local .../gversionmacros.h ?
823 2012-11-28 07:24:56 <denisx> I don't have anything with GLIB_VERSION
824 2012-11-28 07:25:43 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: jgarzik I don't have a gversionmacros.h
825 2012-11-28 07:25:58 <jgarzik> doubly odd
826 2012-11-28 07:26:01 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: I just defined that and it got quite a bit further (-DGLIB_VERSION_2_30 added to CFLAGS)
827 2012-11-28 07:26:02 <denisx> but there is GLIB_MAJOR_VERSION, GLIB_MINOR_VERSION and GLIB_MICRO_VERSION
828 2012-11-28 07:27:13 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
829 2012-11-28 07:27:17 <jgarzik> denisx, jrmithdobbs: any GLIB_VERSION_.* symbols?
830 2012-11-28 07:27:22 <jgarzik> (note trailing '_')
831 2012-11-28 07:27:34 <denisx> no
832 2012-11-28 07:27:37 <jrmithdobbs> not that I see
833 2012-11-28 07:27:38 <jrmithdobbs> no
834 2012-11-28 07:27:44 <jrmithdobbs> think those get defined by autotools
835 2012-11-28 07:29:32 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: more importantly it thinks it's found libevent but apparently it doesn't like this version? all sorts of undefined ref to ... 'event_new' 'event_free' etc
836 2012-11-28 07:29:44 <jrmithdobbs> also, <3 openbsd gcc/clang warning patches:
837 2012-11-28 07:29:46 <jrmithdobbs> /usr/local/lib/libglib-2.0.so.2992.0: warning: stpcpy() is dangerous GNU crap; don't use it
838 2012-11-28 07:30:10 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: definitely requires libevent2
839 2012-11-28 07:30:12 <jgarzik> not libevent
840 2012-11-28 07:30:13 <gmaxwell> Only OpenBSD dangerous crap permitted.
841 2012-11-28 07:30:51 <jrmithdobbs> ~/src/picocoin$ pkg_info | grep libevent
842 2012-11-28 07:30:52 <jrmithdobbs> libevent-2.0.13 event notification library
843 2012-11-28 07:31:15 dust-otc has joined
844 2012-11-28 07:31:37 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: i still chuckle at the warnings :P
845 2012-11-28 07:33:21 emryss has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
846 2012-11-28 07:33:34 <jgarzik> -#ifndef GLIB_VERSION_2_30
847 2012-11-28 07:33:34 <jgarzik> +#if ((GLIB_MAJOR_VERSION == 2) && (GLIB_MINOR_VERSION < 30))
848 2012-11-28 07:33:45 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs, denisx: that work for you both?
849 2012-11-28 07:33:48 <jgarzik> include/ccoin/compat.h
850 2012-11-28 07:34:19 <denisx> let me check
851 2012-11-28 07:34:36 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: sounds like you got CFLAGS right, but not LDFLAGS
852 2012-11-28 07:35:09 Bootstrapper has joined
853 2012-11-28 07:35:15 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: no I see what's going on
854 2012-11-28 07:36:07 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: openbsd also ships libevent (1) in base and your autotools stuff is smart enough to find the includes but not reorder -L's to put /usr/local/lib before /usr/lib explicitly (that's an openbsd annoyance)
855 2012-11-28 07:37:22 <jrmithdobbs> oh wait, no, it wasn't smart enough to find the includes is the problem because they're in /usr/local/include/event2
856 2012-11-28 07:37:29 <jrmithdobbs> but it found -levent2 :P
857 2012-11-28 07:37:52 <denisx> for me it works
858 2012-11-28 07:38:27 <jgarzik> cool
859 2012-11-28 07:39:57 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: ya that fixes that
860 2012-11-28 07:40:29 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: you made it all the way through 'make all check' ?
861 2012-11-28 07:41:07 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: except for the final linking stage, yes
862 2012-11-28 07:41:22 <jrmithdobbs> figuring out the libevent linking problem
863 2012-11-28 07:41:47 BlackPrapor has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
864 2012-11-28 07:42:03 <jrmithdobbs> i was mixed up, it's finding the headers, but -levent isn't the right thing to link against for the libevent2 port on openbsd i think or something, i've run into this before
865 2012-11-28 07:43:01 <da2ce7_d> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=69060.0 - Melbourne Meetup 5th December!!
866 2012-11-28 07:46:39 emryss has joined
867 2012-11-28 07:48:44 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: ya, if i change the -levent to -levent_core it links and make check works
868 2012-11-28 07:49:14 <sipa> jgarzik: any further errors on vanilla head?
869 2012-11-28 07:49:26 <jgarzik> sipa: none. tried restarting a few times.
870 2012-11-28 07:49:30 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: that's a broken test in autotools, not your fault tbqh
871 2012-11-28 07:49:47 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: I disagree. It is my fault ;p
872 2012-11-28 07:49:51 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: it seems to falsely think /usr/lib/libevent.so is new enough
873 2012-11-28 07:51:10 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs, denisx: I would like to add the following to configure.ac (requires autogen.sh to be re-run):
874 2012-11-28 07:51:12 <jgarzik> -AC_CHECK_LIB(event, event_base_new, EVENT_LIBS=-levent,
875 2012-11-28 07:51:12 <jgarzik> +AC_CHECK_LIB(event_core, event_base_new, EVENT_LIBS=-levent_core,
876 2012-11-28 07:51:19 <jgarzik> works here
877 2012-11-28 07:52:42 <denisx> event_core?
878 2012-11-28 07:52:46 <denisx> whats that?
879 2012-11-28 07:53:30 <sipa> wow, this must be the very first time i see 2112 backing up his ramblings with actual code
880 2012-11-28 07:53:40 Bootstrapper has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
881 2012-11-28 07:53:41 <denisx> all 13 tests passed
882 2012-11-28 07:54:09 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: ?
883 2012-11-28 07:54:39 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: in jgarzik's announce post
884 2012-11-28 07:54:54 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: linking script is broken too
885 2012-11-28 07:54:56 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: /home/mith/src/picocoin/lib/script_eval.c:26: undefined reference to `memmem'
886 2012-11-28 07:54:59 <jrmithdobbs> ../lib/libccoin.a(script_eval.o)(.text+0x19c9):/home/mith/src/picocoin/lib/script_eval.c:26: undefined reference to `memmem'
887 2012-11-28 07:56:21 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: hum. I guess OpenBSD lacks that one.
888 2012-11-28 07:56:38 <jrmithdobbs> indeed
889 2012-11-28 07:57:06 <jrmithdobbs> why memmem and not strstr?
890 2012-11-28 07:58:42 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: dealing with binary data, not nul-terminated strings
891 2012-11-28 07:59:03 <jrmithdobbs> then what's it doing in a GString? :P
892 2012-11-28 07:59:12 CodesInChaos has joined
893 2012-11-28 08:00:32 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: GString is religiously used with binary data. GByteArray might be more appropriate, but it's also more annoying for minor reasons ;p
894 2012-11-28 08:01:49 <jgarzik> bah, stupid licenses, now I must find a BSD-licensed memmem
895 2012-11-28 08:02:08 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: ya, I was looking for one
896 2012-11-28 08:02:15 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: there's one in freebsd
897 2012-11-28 08:02:18 <jgarzik> presumably fBSD has it
898 2012-11-28 08:03:00 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: it's in lib/libc/string/memmem.c
899 2012-11-28 08:03:02 <jrmithdobbs> in the source tree
900 2012-11-28 08:05:32 kreal has joined
901 2012-11-28 08:06:58 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: OK, pushed out to picocoin.git HEAD
902 2012-11-28 08:08:57 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: err, I thought the -levent_core change fixed it but I apparently didn't clear things right after manually fixing that
903 2012-11-28 08:09:29 <jrmithdobbs> i cleaned out the CFLAGS crap I'd added and it now does:
904 2012-11-28 08:09:30 <jrmithdobbs> configure: error: Missing required libevent
905 2012-11-28 08:09:59 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: You will still need -I/usr/local/blah and -L/usr/local/lib in CFLAGS/LDFLAGS
906 2012-11-28 08:10:01 <jrmithdobbs> works if I put -L/usr/local/lib -L/usr/lib at the end of the LDFLAGS
907 2012-11-28 08:10:07 <jrmithdobbs> ya
908 2012-11-28 08:10:36 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: yah BSD will require CFLAGS/LDFLAGS/LIBS tweaking for now. Given that assumption, does it fully build and 'make check'?
909 2012-11-28 08:11:21 <jrmithdobbs> ok it builds/links now
910 2012-11-28 08:11:24 <jrmithdobbs> and only one test failure
911 2012-11-28 08:11:25 <jrmithdobbs> http://pastebin.com/E9Jhndqj
912 2012-11-28 08:12:36 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: interesting
913 2012-11-28 08:12:36 <jrmithdobbs> how much ram is that allocating? probably default ulimit getting hit
914 2012-11-28 08:12:52 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: quite a bit. it loads 193,000 block headers into RAM, plus metadata
915 2012-11-28 08:13:28 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: on disk file size is around 20MB
916 2012-11-28 08:15:00 <jrmithdobbs> ya bumped data seg ulimit to 16G (ram in box) and it all passes
917 2012-11-28 08:15:22 <jrmithdobbs> it skipped chain-verf
918 2012-11-28 08:16:36 <jrmithdobbs> get a no such file or directory abort from line 28 of chain-verf.c if i try to run it
919 2012-11-28 08:17:20 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: great!
920 2012-11-28 08:17:44 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: that's where we need to be. chain-verf requires a specially prepared file you probably don't have (block chain from pynode).
921 2012-11-28 08:18:29 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: thanks for the help. I'm going to go collapse now. :)
922 2012-11-28 08:18:39 <jgarzik> denisx: ditto
923 2012-11-28 08:19:00 * sipa calculates jgarzik's local time
924 2012-11-28 08:19:01 freakazoid has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
925 2012-11-28 08:19:14 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: if anyone asks:
926 2012-11-28 08:19:14 <sipa> oh, only 3am?
927 2012-11-28 08:19:16 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: AUTOMAKE_VERSION=1.11 AUTOCONF_VERSION=2.68 ./autogen.sh && CC=clang LD=llvm-ld CFLAGS='-O2 -Wall -g -I/usr/local/include/event2 -I/opt/OpenBSD/5.1/amd64/jansson-2.4/include -I/usr/local/include/event2' LDFLAGS='-L/opt/OpenBSD/5.1/amd64/jansson-2.4/lib -L/usr/local/lib -L/usr/lib' ./configure --prefix=/opt/OpenBSD/5.1/amd64/picocoin-0.0 && make all check
928 2012-11-28 08:19:32 <sipa> ;;bc,halfreward
929 2012-11-28 08:19:33 <gribble> Estimated time of bitcoin block reward halving: Wed Nov 28 08:46:00 2012 | Time remaining: 8 hours, 40 minutes, and 0 seconds
930 2012-11-28 08:19:49 <jrmithdobbs> not sure if that -I for the libevent2 includes is needed, but the rest is (it'll build fine with the system gcc/ld though)
931 2012-11-28 08:35:54 Hasimir has quit (Quit: Time to teach people about GPG and other crypto at https://cryptoparty.org - Melbourne)
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939 2012-11-28 08:56:56 <abrkn> what types of transactions does bitcoind list? so far ive seen nonstandard, scriptpubkey and pubkey
940 2012-11-28 08:57:29 <abrkn> err, pubkeyhash and pubkey
941 2012-11-28 08:57:33 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
942 2012-11-28 09:00:54 <sipa> "nonstandard", "pubkey", "pubkeyhash", "scripthash", "multisig"
943 2012-11-28 09:01:33 Jamesz has joined
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949 2012-11-28 09:10:39 <abrkn> ok, i noticed a nonstandard with no output addresses. what's up with that?
950 2012-11-28 09:12:32 <sipa> if it is non-standard, it means the output script doesn't match any known template, so there is just nothing interesting to say about it
951 2012-11-28 09:12:59 <sipa> it just means the script can be anything
952 2012-11-28 09:20:48 gritball_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
953 2012-11-28 09:24:12 gritball has joined
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962 2012-11-28 09:59:43 Crimewave is now known as WeLoveCP
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966 2012-11-28 10:16:17 <denisx> the code that happen on 210000 blocks, has anybody ever tested that?
967 2012-11-28 10:16:18 <denisx> ;)
968 2012-11-28 10:18:11 jarib has joined
969 2012-11-28 10:20:52 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
970 2012-11-28 10:22:09 <_dr> soon
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1002 2012-11-28 12:10:28 slothbag1 has joined
1003 2012-11-28 12:11:13 Apexseals has joined
1004 2012-11-28 12:12:14 <sipa> ;;bc,halfreward
1005 2012-11-28 12:12:14 <gribble> Estimated time of bitcoin block reward halving: Wed Nov 28 08:19:00 2012 | Time remaining: 4 hours, 20 minutes, and 0 seconds
1006 2012-11-28 12:12:32 slothbag has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1007 2012-11-28 12:13:14 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
1008 2012-11-28 12:13:22 BCBot2 has joined
1009 2012-11-28 12:21:28 <abrkn> the end is near.
1010 2012-11-28 12:24:09 drizztbsd has joined
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1024 2012-11-28 12:52:37 <Graet> ends lead to new beginnings
1025 2012-11-28 12:53:05 Guest1235 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1026 2012-11-28 12:55:53 graingert has joined
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1029 2012-11-28 13:00:22 jdnavarro has joined
1030 2012-11-28 13:00:38 <t7> multibit is quite nice
1031 2012-11-28 13:03:11 <t7> i did think something dramatic was going to happen on mtgox in the week leading up to it...
1032 2012-11-28 13:03:23 <drizztbsd> ;;halfreward
1033 2012-11-28 13:03:24 <gribble> Estimated time of bitcoin block reward halving: Wed Nov 28 16:20:45 2012 UTC | Time remaining: 3 hours, 30 minutes, and 0 seconds.
1034 2012-11-28 13:07:52 slush1 has joined
1035 2012-11-28 13:13:25 slush1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1036 2012-11-28 13:20:09 <t7> is there a lightweight client/library in c/c++ ?
1037 2012-11-28 13:21:20 <sipa> picocoin
1038 2012-11-28 13:23:22 <t7> is this like bitcoinj? (doesnt download the entire blockchain)
1039 2012-11-28 13:26:48 <sipa> yes
1040 2012-11-28 13:27:03 <sipa> it verifies the block headers, but not the blocks
1041 2012-11-28 13:40:39 JZavala has joined
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1043 2012-11-28 13:51:57 denisx has joined
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1046 2012-11-28 14:02:55 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1047 2012-11-28 14:03:39 <Hasimir> quick question: was the genesis block numbered as 0 or 1?
1048 2012-11-28 14:03:49 <sipa> 0
1049 2012-11-28 14:04:32 <Hasimir> thanks
1050 2012-11-28 14:05:52 panzer has joined
1051 2012-11-28 14:06:16 <sipa> ;;bc,halfreward
1052 2012-11-28 14:06:17 Mqrius has joined
1053 2012-11-28 14:06:22 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
1054 2012-11-28 14:06:36 Cylta has joined
1055 2012-11-28 14:06:42 <sipa> ;;bc,height
1056 2012-11-28 14:06:42 <gribble> Error: "bc,height" is not a valid command.
1057 2012-11-28 14:06:47 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
1058 2012-11-28 14:07:02 <sipa> ;;bc,count
1059 2012-11-28 14:07:10 <Cylta> Sooo, great experiment is just to begin? :-D
1060 2012-11-28 14:07:12 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
1061 2012-11-28 14:07:13 <gribble> Error: "bc,count" is not a valid command.
1062 2012-11-28 14:10:08 Mqrius has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1063 2012-11-28 14:10:14 Mqrius is now known as 2!kvirc@unaffiliated/mqrius|Mqrius
1064 2012-11-28 14:14:18 <stamit> all of a sudden, i notice that my bank isn't giving me my transactions log
1065 2012-11-28 14:14:37 <stamit> not via ebanking. i am forced to go in person
1066 2012-11-28 14:16:02 <stamit> got to receive your "spanking", stamit
1067 2012-11-28 14:17:03 <stamit> or maybe they just like seeing me
1068 2012-11-28 14:18:01 jav__ has joined
1069 2012-11-28 14:19:15 agricocb has joined
1070 2012-11-28 14:21:05 runeks has joined
1071 2012-11-28 14:23:20 <jgarzik> ;;bc,halfreward
1072 2012-11-28 14:23:30 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
1073 2012-11-28 14:24:09 <_dr> i thought the blockchain was supposed to break
1074 2012-11-28 14:24:10 <_dr> not the bot
1075 2012-11-28 14:24:38 <jgarzik> luke-jr, sipa: hazek reports next-test crash, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=127864.msg1363172#msg1363172
1076 2012-11-28 14:25:03 <Graet> ;;halfreward
1077 2012-11-28 14:25:03 <gribble> Estimated time of bitcoin block reward halving: Wed Nov 28 15:12:24 2012 UTC | Time remaining: 1 hour and 0 seconds.
1078 2012-11-28 14:25:04 <Graet> works
1079 2012-11-28 14:25:26 Cylta has left ()
1080 2012-11-28 14:25:50 <sturles> The bc, subcommands are broken today.
1081 2012-11-28 14:27:13 <jgarzik> ;;halfreward
1082 2012-11-28 14:27:13 <gribble> Estimated time of bitcoin block reward halving: Wed Nov 28 15:14:34 2012 UTC | Time remaining: 1 hour and 0 seconds.
1083 2012-11-28 14:30:36 <topi`> I wonder if there are any pools out there who have hardcoded the reward at 50 btc ;) I might try and exploit it ;)
1084 2012-11-28 14:32:04 <Graet> i know one, but the poolop is awake and ready to change it :P
1085 2012-11-28 14:32:27 <Graet> i do wonder about some of the less maintained pools though
1086 2012-11-28 14:33:35 <jgarzik> topi`: definitely a few hardcoded pools out there, as of a few weeks ago
1087 2012-11-28 14:34:33 Keefe has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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1090 2012-11-28 14:34:52 Keefe has joined
1091 2012-11-28 14:35:05 <UukGoblin> guys just realized
1092 2012-11-28 14:35:13 <UukGoblin> has EVERYTHING been tested for B210k bug safety?
1093 2012-11-28 14:35:22 <UukGoblin> there is still time!
1094 2012-11-28 14:36:53 <topi`> let's get some consultants and pay up
1095 2012-11-28 14:37:17 <topi`> I thought the world was gonna end on Y2K
1096 2012-11-28 14:37:35 <sipa> it did
1097 2012-11-28 14:37:37 <topi`> thinking about all those nuclear reactors being run by old Windows installations
1098 2012-11-28 14:37:45 <_dr> better not
1099 2012-11-28 14:37:47 <sipa> your brain wasn't Y2K compliant however, so you didn't notice
1100 2012-11-28 14:40:42 <sipa> hmm, one can argue that the bitcoin timeline started when satoshi *started* mining for block 0
1101 2012-11-28 14:40:44 <t7> "block reward halving parties" haha
1102 2012-11-28 14:41:02 <sipa> so the switchover to the "second cycle" happens at block 209999
1103 2012-11-28 14:41:46 <sipa> it also makes sense, because at that point miners will start working on blocks with 25 BTC subsidy
1104 2012-11-28 14:44:44 <kjj> 3...
1105 2012-11-28 14:44:54 <UukGoblin> sipa, or stop
1106 2012-11-28 14:45:17 <sipa> UukGoblin: exactly
1107 2012-11-28 14:45:42 <kjj> I wonder how many people are hoping to switch to pools that don't handle the switch properly
1108 2012-11-28 14:47:21 <MC1984> where did all this hashpowercome from
1109 2012-11-28 14:47:38 <kjj> what hash power?
1110 2012-11-28 14:47:58 <MC1984> over 30
1111 2012-11-28 14:48:00 bitfoo has joined
1112 2012-11-28 14:48:04 Hasimir- has joined
1113 2012-11-28 14:48:06 <MC1984> bad estimate?
1114 2012-11-28 14:48:24 <jgarzik> 11/28/12 14:35:21 Starting 1 BitcoinMiner threads
1115 2012-11-28 14:48:24 <jgarzik> 11/28/12 14:35:21 BitcoinMiner started
1116 2012-11-28 14:48:24 <jgarzik> 11/28/12 14:35:21 keypool reserve 15
1117 2012-11-28 14:48:24 <jgarzik> 11/28/12 14:35:21 CreateNewBlock(): total size 146815
1118 2012-11-28 14:48:24 <jgarzik> 11/28/12 14:35:21 Running BitcoinMiner with 369 transactions in block (146006 bytes)
1119 2012-11-28 14:48:25 <edcba> halving already happened ?
1120 2012-11-28 14:48:27 <kjj> hash power isn't measured, it is estimated
1121 2012-11-28 14:48:39 <jgarzik> damn right, baby. mainnet CPU mining FTW.
1122 2012-11-28 14:48:54 Hasimir has quit (Disconnected by services)
1123 2012-11-28 14:49:08 Hasimir- is now known as Hasimir
1124 2012-11-28 14:49:08 Hasimir has quit (Changing host)
1125 2012-11-28 14:49:08 Hasimir has joined
1126 2012-11-28 14:49:18 <_dr> if you get the last 50-block you'll be my new personal hero
1127 2012-11-28 14:49:45 unknown45682 has joined
1128 2012-11-28 14:49:49 <kjj> 2...
1129 2012-11-28 14:49:51 <sipa> 2 more
1130 2012-11-28 14:50:21 <kinlo> :)
1131 2012-11-28 14:50:34 <kinlo> I really need another 50 btc block :/
1132 2012-11-28 14:50:34 TD_ has joined
1133 2012-11-28 14:50:38 <UukGoblin> 'nd then what
1134 2012-11-28 14:50:40 <TD_> BlueMatt: just find the last post from gavin and pick up from that point. your input would be appreciated.
1135 2012-11-28 14:53:24 <sipa> TD_: uh-oh; someone had an unclean shutdown on Win7, and LevelDB failed to load afterwards...
1136 2012-11-28 14:54:16 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1137 2012-11-28 14:54:52 <sipa> i'm not sure about that LevelDB port to Win32 (including my own modifications to make it run on pre-C++11)
1138 2012-11-28 14:54:59 TD_ is now known as TD
1139 2012-11-28 14:55:09 <TD> sipa: how did it fail to load
1140 2012-11-28 14:55:35 <sipa> LevelDB read failure: IO error: C:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Roaming\Bitcoin\coins/036518.sst: No such file or directory
1141 2012-11-28 14:56:28 [\\\] has joined
1142 2012-11-28 14:57:57 DutchBrat has joined
1143 2012-11-28 15:00:49 <ThomasV> UukGoblin: I think I just found a bug
1144 2012-11-28 15:01:07 <ThomasV> :)
1145 2012-11-28 15:01:22 <ThomasV> (just kidding)
1146 2012-11-28 15:01:24 <TD> sipa: :(
1147 2012-11-28 15:01:25 <UukGoblin> ;-]
1148 2012-11-28 15:01:37 <MC1984> has the subsidy code been tested before now?
1149 2012-11-28 15:02:07 <UukGoblin> MC1984, no, but we still have a few minutes to test it
1150 2012-11-28 15:02:12 <lianj> no we all gonna die
1151 2012-11-28 15:02:14 <UukGoblin> MC1984, (jk)
1152 2012-11-28 15:02:15 vigilyn has joined
1153 2012-11-28 15:02:18 <topi`> I wonder if Satoshi ever tested the halving of reward... it is a simple snippet of code, yet everything can go wrong as always :D
1154 2012-11-28 15:02:23 <ThomasV> it's being tested right now. lpease do not mine so that we have more time
1155 2012-11-28 15:02:40 <sipa> TD: i haven't ever been able to reproduce that, and iirc i tried things like hard poweroff
1156 2012-11-28 15:02:49 <MC1984> what if it starts producing 2500000000000 coins per block :/
1157 2012-11-28 15:02:49 <lianj> ThomasV: hehe, yea that will work
1158 2012-11-28 15:03:00 <andrew12-> block party time
1159 2012-11-28 15:03:16 <sipa> andrew12-: easy now, 2 more blocks to go
1160 2012-11-28 15:03:40 <ThomasV> heh, did you guys test what happens if there is a reorg at the 210000th block?
1161 2012-11-28 15:03:42 <MC1984> i wonder if it will have any visible effect on the fees market
1162 2012-11-28 15:03:54 * andrew12- switches over to solo mining for this
1163 2012-11-28 15:04:09 <MC1984> if the fees will actually start to become a market after this
1164 2012-11-28 15:04:15 <sipa> i doubt it
1165 2012-11-28 15:04:20 <TD> sipa: yes it may well be a windows specific issue. perhaps we should re-read over the win32 port
1166 2012-11-28 15:04:40 <sipa> TD: there are tons of win32 ports of leveldb out there, it seems
1167 2012-11-28 15:05:17 <MC1984> sipa got any new .8 builds?
1168 2012-11-28 15:05:22 wladston has joined
1169 2012-11-28 15:05:24 <sipa> MC1984: no
1170 2012-11-28 15:05:25 <lianj> andrew12-: lets hope you target the last 50er block and not the first 25er ;)
1171 2012-11-28 15:05:26 <TD> yeah. nobody ever does the work to get it all upstream, unfortunately
1172 2012-11-28 15:05:32 <TD> ;;blocks
1173 2012-11-28 15:05:33 <gribble> 209997
1174 2012-11-28 15:05:36 <TD> wow
1175 2012-11-28 15:05:38 <TD> nearly there
1176 2012-11-28 15:05:40 <_dr> *boring*
1177 2012-11-28 15:06:00 <sipa> c'mon BFL just bring those ASICs online for half an hour, will ya?
1178 2012-11-28 15:06:02 <topi`> anyone got champagne? this is almost like millennium :D
1179 2012-11-28 15:06:12 <andrew12-> lianj: i only have 100mhash so i don't expect any amazing luck here
1180 2012-11-28 15:06:43 <topi`> andrew12-: in a lottery, every ticket counts!
1181 2012-11-28 15:07:07 <MC1984> if the hash estimates are even close to accurate i think they already did
1182 2012-11-28 15:07:21 <andrew12-> like two weeks ago i was going to try to mine solo to see if i could get lucky... after about a week i switched to p2pool
1183 2012-11-28 15:07:47 <MC1984> solo mining LOL
1184 2012-11-28 15:07:51 <andrew12-> :D
1185 2012-11-28 15:08:08 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1186 2012-11-28 15:08:35 <topi`> hey, millions of ppl waste money on lottery
1187 2012-11-28 15:08:38 <_dr> bfl is way too busy moving to the bahamas
1188 2012-11-28 15:08:40 <lianj> i guess you have more luck to put a tx in that block :D
1189 2012-11-28 15:09:36 <sipa> _dr: fail, if they're still doing that now :)
1190 2012-11-28 15:09:49 <andrew12-> wonder how many pools will stop working
1191 2012-11-28 15:10:02 <_dr> i mailed them about a prospective bulk order and academic pricing a while back
1192 2012-11-28 15:10:20 <_dr> haven't heard back yet, they must be really eager to sell their product :]
1193 2012-11-28 15:10:42 <sipa> they answered me nicely when i asked to change the delivery address
1194 2012-11-28 15:10:48 <sipa> took a while, though
1195 2012-11-28 15:11:02 davout has joined
1196 2012-11-28 15:11:45 <_dr> mh, i should change the address, too, and send it to someone in the us
1197 2012-11-28 15:11:48 <topi`> MC1984: any idea where genjix has gone? he's just disappeared.
1198 2012-11-28 15:11:53 <_dr> i wonder how much eu customs are going to charge
1199 2012-11-28 15:12:11 <MC1984> i heard hes still in london
1200 2012-11-28 15:12:32 <gmaxwell> >>> 2012-11-28 14:59:48,803 merkleMaker INFO New block: 00000000000000c6d9b57b9db3f318d9a3080a6182afa43718f45cdf962448ac (height: 209999; bits: 1a04e0ea)
1201 2012-11-28 15:12:35 <kjj> 1...
1202 2012-11-28 15:12:55 <MC1984> i think he was mega down about what happened with intersango and bitcoinica etc
1203 2012-11-28 15:13:06 <topi`> MC1984: that was my impression as well
1204 2012-11-28 15:13:46 <thermoman> how is this 50BTC/block and in the future 25BTC/block implemented? i mean who says "as of now you only get 25BTC per block"?
1205 2012-11-28 15:13:52 <kinlo> gmaxwell: are you using eloi, or am I misinterpreting that output ? :)
1206 2012-11-28 15:14:02 <gmaxwell> kinlo: yea, thats eloi
1207 2012-11-28 15:14:20 <kjj> thermoman: subsidy = 50*COIN >> (block_count/210000)
1208 2012-11-28 15:14:29 ovidiusoft has quit (Quit: leaving)
1209 2012-11-28 15:14:33 <kinlo> gmaxwell: I was assuming you were a p2pool fan
1210 2012-11-28 15:14:37 <gmaxwell> thermoman: everyone says.
1211 2012-11-28 15:14:46 Prattler has joined
1212 2012-11-28 15:14:52 <MC1984> poor guy did a lot of good work even outside his immediate business
1213 2012-11-28 15:14:58 <sipa> *BING*
1214 2012-11-28 15:15:03 <gmaxwell> kinlo: I am, of course. I swtiched to solo for a last effort to get a solo 50 btc block. :)
1215 2012-11-28 15:15:05 <edcba> we have a winner ?
1216 2012-11-28 15:15:08 <kjj> 0!
1217 2012-11-28 15:15:09 <gmaxwell> 2012-11-28 15:02:10,687 merkleMaker INFO New block: 00000000000000f3819164645360294b5dee7f2e846001ac9f41a70b7a9a3de1 (height: 210000; bits: 1a04e0ea)
1218 2012-11-28 15:15:12 <kinlo> ic :)
1219 2012-11-28 15:15:21 <gmaxwell> ... which failed. :P
1220 2012-11-28 15:15:34 <kinlo> :p
1221 2012-11-28 15:15:34 <thermoman> kjj, gmaxwell: so if everyone (or at least more than the active peers) would use a modified bitcoin client they could change that?
1222 2012-11-28 15:15:45 <edcba> yes
1223 2012-11-28 15:15:55 <gmaxwell> thermoman: you made two statements, one is wrong.
1224 2012-11-28 15:15:58 <lianj> yay, at least my tx made it into the block
1225 2012-11-28 15:16:14 <thermoman> gmaxwell: which one is one? :)
1226 2012-11-28 15:16:22 <TD> oh noooo
1227 2012-11-28 15:16:22 <edcba> one
1228 2012-11-28 15:16:23 <TD> i have a meeting
1229 2012-11-28 15:16:26 <TD> gonna miss the big block
1230 2012-11-28 15:16:38 <gmaxwell> thermoman: if everyone, sureâ dur. if everyone switched their bitcoin client for a paypal interface then they'd all be using paypal. .... If "more". No. Thats not how it works. Bitcoin is not a democracy.
1231 2012-11-28 15:16:39 <TD> hope nothing explodes
1232 2012-11-28 15:16:45 <sipa> 15:28:03 < sipa> hmm, one can argue that the bitcoin timeline started when satoshi started mining for block 0
1233 2012-11-28 15:16:51 <sipa> 15:28:23 < sipa> so the switchover to the "second cycle" happens at block 209999
1234 2012-11-28 15:16:52 <MC1984> whats everyone using to watch the network?
1235 2012-11-28 15:16:53 AlbusTalpa has joined
1236 2012-11-28 15:17:04 <edcba> eyes
1237 2012-11-28 15:17:10 <MC1984> hue
1238 2012-11-28 15:17:23 <lianj> matrix scrolling bitcoin decoder
1239 2012-11-28 15:17:27 <topi`> so who got the last 50btc block??
1240 2012-11-28 15:17:32 <sipa> MC1984: bitcoind getinfo
1241 2012-11-28 15:18:04 <kinlo> topi`: blockorigin will have it soon
1242 2012-11-28 15:18:05 <kjj> tail
1243 2012-11-28 15:18:07 <MC1984> im using some website
1244 2012-11-28 15:18:14 <sipa> btcguild had the last one
1245 2012-11-28 15:18:15 <kinlo> question is, who will be having the first 25 btc
1246 2012-11-28 15:18:23 <epscy> what does this mean ERROR: FetchInputs() : fa3db35a86 mempool Tx prev not found
1247 2012-11-28 15:18:25 <sipa> as reported by btcguild themselv
1248 2012-11-28 15:18:25 <kinlo> coz if the pool has bugs
1249 2012-11-28 15:18:28 <lianj> kinlo: i would rather get the last 50 ;)
1250 2012-11-28 15:18:30 <sipa> epscy: nothing to worry about
1251 2012-11-28 15:18:35 <andrew12-> http://www.bitcoinmonitor.com
1252 2012-11-28 15:18:40 <epscy> sipa: ok thanks
1253 2012-11-28 15:18:43 <kinlo> lianj: yes, but if pools are incorrectly generating 50 btc blocks
1254 2012-11-28 15:18:47 <kinlo> all mining has halted
1255 2012-11-28 15:18:49 <jgarzik> block height 209999 was a version==2 block!
1256 2012-11-28 15:18:51 <jgarzik> kudos to the miner
1257 2012-11-28 15:18:55 <jgarzik> maybe it was p2pool?
1258 2012-11-28 15:19:00 <topi`> a surge in transactions in the block #20999
1259 2012-11-28 15:19:01 <MC1984> BCC is 2 blocks behind
1260 2012-11-28 15:19:07 <andrew12-> it was btcguild according to blockchain.info
1261 2012-11-28 15:19:10 <jgarzik> 00000000000000f3819164645360294b5dee7f2e846001ac9f41a70b7a9a3de1
1262 2012-11-28 15:19:22 <gmaxwell> now maybe 210000 breaks lots of pools and I'll get it. :P
1263 2012-11-28 15:19:33 <topi`> why does blockchain.info show the height as 209999
1264 2012-11-28 15:19:36 <sipa> andrew12-: don't rely on blockchain.info please - they just say who relayed it first
1265 2012-11-28 15:19:45 <sipa> topi`: because the height of the last block is 209999
1266 2012-11-28 15:19:48 <MC1984> p2pool is good for 25btc reward right
1267 2012-11-28 15:19:50 <andrew12-> sipa: i know, i'm not relying on it, i'm just pointing that out
1268 2012-11-28 15:19:53 <andrew12-> MC1984: yes
1269 2012-11-28 15:19:55 <thermoman> gmaxwell: "If "more". No. Thats not how it works. Bitcoin is not a democracy" <-- but who then decides that it is 50BTC? the client who mined it?
1270 2012-11-28 15:20:00 <andrew12-> MC1984: well, we think so. it certainly should be
1271 2012-11-28 15:20:06 <sipa> andrew12-: yes, i checked as well, but verified at btcguild itself :)
1272 2012-11-28 15:20:16 <sipa> thermoman: everyone
1273 2012-11-28 15:20:20 <sipa> it's a fixed network rule
1274 2012-11-28 15:20:25 <jgarzik> ka-blam! take that, network: 11/28/12 15:07:31 hashmeter 4 CPUs 4645 khash/s
1275 2012-11-28 15:20:30 <jgarzik> I want that next block.
1276 2012-11-28 15:20:33 Belkaar has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1277 2012-11-28 15:20:34 <t7> i would giggle if there was a bug in the reward halving :3
1278 2012-11-28 15:20:37 <lianj> http://blockchain.info/orphaned-blocks
1279 2012-11-28 15:20:44 <topi`> jgarzik: good luck :D
1280 2012-11-28 15:20:44 <andrew12-> jgarzik: what cpuminer are you using? this could be entertaining
1281 2012-11-28 15:20:54 <thermoman> sipa: ok. but when i control more than 50% of all active peers i could dictate that it's 100BTC per block and not just 50, right?
1282 2012-11-28 15:20:56 <jgarzik> andrew12-: internal bitcoind
1283 2012-11-28 15:20:59 <sipa> thermoman: no
1284 2012-11-28 15:21:02 <andrew12-> setgenerate?
1285 2012-11-28 15:21:02 agath has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1286 2012-11-28 15:21:06 <jgarzik> yes
1287 2012-11-28 15:21:06 <gmaxwell> thermoman: ... No. It's part of the rules of the system enforced by every implementation of it. The same way that e.g. you can only spend coins you can sign for is enforced...
1288 2012-11-28 15:21:08 <sipa> thermoman: every other node on the planet would ignore you
1289 2012-11-28 15:21:26 <thermoman> ok. interesting
1290 2012-11-28 15:21:31 <sipa> thermoman: bitcoin is not a democracy
1291 2012-11-28 15:21:32 <kjj> thermoman: you can do that with even just one peer, but no one else will accept your blocks, so you will be a network of one
1292 2012-11-28 15:21:34 <helo> thermoman: you would be running off on your own branch that nobody would care about
1293 2012-11-28 15:21:37 <gmaxwell> thermoman: thats just a really costly way to not mine at all. :P
1294 2012-11-28 15:21:44 <sipa> the only thing "voted" about is the *order* of otherwise valid transactions
1295 2012-11-28 15:21:51 <sipa> there is no voting about the rules themself
1296 2012-11-28 15:21:58 Jaagu has joined
1297 2012-11-28 15:22:19 * jgarzik wonders if Satoshi ever locally simulated up to this block height
1298 2012-11-28 15:22:25 <topi`> let's see how many GPU miners shut down their rigs now...
1299 2012-11-28 15:22:26 <MC1984> is BCC block counter broken or what
1300 2012-11-28 15:22:27 <sipa> jgarzik: i doubt it :p
1301 2012-11-28 15:22:38 <topi`> are there any statistics about mining anywhere?
1302 2012-11-28 15:22:39 <andrew12-> if he's a good person he would have
1303 2012-11-28 15:22:42 <thermoman> i'm still at block 209999,
1304 2012-11-28 15:22:46 <andrew12-> topi`: blockchain.info has a few
1305 2012-11-28 15:22:48 <UukGoblin> I have a feeling it'll take a while to get to 210000 ;-)
1306 2012-11-28 15:22:54 Belkaar has joined
1307 2012-11-28 15:23:00 <gmaxwell> thermoman: the network is still at 209999.
1308 2012-11-28 15:23:02 <UukGoblin> will be fun to watch on sipa's graphs
1309 2012-11-28 15:23:15 <sipa> aren't there any altcoins out there that passed their halving?
1310 2012-11-28 15:23:30 <gmaxwell> sipa: well bluematt's tester does that to bitcoin.
1311 2012-11-28 15:23:42 <andrew12-> "hashespersec" : 2517471
1312 2012-11-28 15:23:44 <andrew12-> aww yiss
1313 2012-11-28 15:24:00 <kinlo> sipa: afaik no altcoin has > 200K blocks, so unless they changed their halving rule...
1314 2012-11-28 15:24:05 <andrew12-> probably should stop minerd for litecoin
1315 2012-11-28 15:24:06 <sipa> andrew12-: ow yeah, 1/10000000 of the network!
1316 2012-11-28 15:24:12 <helo> 11.57883566 BTC Fees!
1317 2012-11-28 15:24:17 <helo> in next block
1318 2012-11-28 15:24:19 <topi`> slush's pool still estimates my reward as 0.027 btc :D
1319 2012-11-28 15:24:24 <gmaxwell> kinlo: many have changed their subsidy rules.
1320 2012-11-28 15:24:27 jdnavarro has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1321 2012-11-28 15:24:28 <topi`> doesn't seem to take the new reward into regard
1322 2012-11-28 15:24:36 <davout> HAHAHA first time playing satoshidice, won, all glory to the halving block!
1323 2012-11-28 15:24:42 <gmaxwell> kinlo: e.g. PPcoin has a different subsidy on every block.
1324 2012-11-28 15:24:56 <kinlo> heh, which pool is using the correct rules
1325 2012-11-28 15:24:57 <helo> looks like the block is maxxed out
1326 2012-11-28 15:24:57 <andrew12-> now it's about 2mhash
1327 2012-11-28 15:25:04 <kinlo> which pool has tested their pool for the change
1328 2012-11-28 15:25:12 <andrew12-> i bet every pool is sending bad blocks
1329 2012-11-28 15:25:18 <helo> 839 Unconfirmed Transactions
1330 2012-11-28 15:25:18 <gmaxwell> davout: I don't celebrate your irrational spending decisions. Why not send me your money if you're going to burn it? I promise I won't spam the network with it at least. :P
1331 2012-11-28 15:25:22 <andrew12-> which is why it isn't here yet
1332 2012-11-28 15:25:22 <sipa> andrew12-: haven't seen a single one
1333 2012-11-28 15:25:25 <andrew12-> ;;bc,tslb
1334 2012-11-28 15:25:26 <gribble> Time since last block: 11 minutes and 6 seconds
1335 2012-11-28 15:25:33 <edcba> ok so it's time to start mining solo ? :)
1336 2012-11-28 15:25:34 <sipa> andrew12-: watching my debug.log live :p
1337 2012-11-28 15:25:42 <andrew12-> sipa: ah. not sure how to do that on windows
1338 2012-11-28 15:25:58 <davout> gmaxwell: it's not irrational, i just want my name engraved in the halving block
1339 2012-11-28 15:26:00 <sipa> install cygwin, tail -f <logfile>
1340 2012-11-28 15:26:11 <davout> added a .1337 fee to a tx to myself XD
1341 2012-11-28 15:26:14 <gmaxwell> davout: you could have just made a regular transaction. :P
1342 2012-11-28 15:26:14 <andrew12-> that takes time
1343 2012-11-28 15:26:23 <davout> gmaxwell: i also did
1344 2012-11-28 15:26:34 <lianj> no ascii art in the last block :(
1345 2012-11-28 15:26:40 <MC1984> where is dat 25btc block
1346 2012-11-28 15:26:47 <gmaxwell> lianj: thats because I didn't solve it. :(
1347 2012-11-28 15:26:48 <MC1984> eye of the storm shit right here
1348 2012-11-28 15:26:51 <andrew12-> i'll donate 0.01 btc to anything
1349 2012-11-28 15:27:01 <andrew12-> need something...
1350 2012-11-28 15:27:07 <andrew12-> how about satoshidice
1351 2012-11-28 15:27:12 <andrew12-> just because
1352 2012-11-28 15:27:22 <jgarzik> sipa: Are the hash power graphs on bitcoinwatch.com still yours?
1353 2012-11-28 15:27:31 <jgarzik> sipa: I'm curious if they will be in error, following 210000
1354 2012-11-28 15:27:48 <sipa> jgarzik: yes, they're mine
1355 2012-11-28 15:27:59 <sipa> jgarzik: and i see no reason why they would fail
1356 2012-11-28 15:28:05 <jgarzik> ditto all the random network-hashpower estimates on various websites. not critical to network function, but they are widely watched.
1357 2012-11-28 15:28:10 <topi`> I think most pools will just use the reference bitcoin client for their block ops? and then a frontend written in some high level language
1358 2012-11-28 15:28:26 <jgarzik> topi`: nod
1359 2012-11-28 15:28:38 <jgarzik> topi`: some older bitcoind variant thereof
1360 2012-11-28 15:28:44 maaku has joined
1361 2012-11-28 15:28:50 <helo> anyone watching to see if anyone tries to send another 50btc reward block?
1362 2012-11-28 15:28:51 <gmaxwell> topi`: they all do something not the reference client for actually building the block.
1363 2012-11-28 15:28:52 <jgarzik> topi`: However.. they might erroneously pay out more than they take in
1364 2012-11-28 15:28:54 <topi`> probably pools will send valid blocks, just like all those bitcion clients out there
1365 2012-11-28 15:29:11 <gmaxwell> but they probably won't manage to relay anything bad they happen to make
1366 2012-11-28 15:29:11 <andrew12-> topi`: but where's the excitement in that
1367 2012-11-28 15:29:12 <jgarzik> of course they will, otherwise they get no credit and their blocks are ignored
1368 2012-11-28 15:29:48 <jgarzik> heh, I wonder if people are sending transactions onto the network, just to get into this special block
1369 2012-11-28 15:29:52 <topi`> and their users will boo :)
1370 2012-11-28 15:29:58 <jgarzik> maybe I should send a transaction to myself, with 1 BTC fee
1371 2012-11-28 15:30:08 <davout> jgarzik: yup, i am, .1337 fee to be sure to get into it
1372 2012-11-28 15:30:09 <topi`> I am!
1373 2012-11-28 15:30:10 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: 25 btc fee. :P
1374 2012-11-28 15:30:15 CodesInChaos has joined
1375 2012-11-28 15:30:19 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: rofl
1376 2012-11-28 15:30:19 <lianj> gmaxwell: :P
1377 2012-11-28 15:30:28 <lianj> that would be awesome
1378 2012-11-28 15:30:46 <topi`> what, a 206 BTC transaction from satoshiDICE...
1379 2012-11-28 15:30:47 <lianj> max level trolling
1380 2012-11-28 15:30:55 <thermoman> gmaxwell: what if i convince 90% of the network to switch that code block to 75 BTC per block - what happens then in the network?
1381 2012-11-28 15:31:18 <andrew12-> my heart's beating, my heart's beating, my hands are shaking, my hands are shaking
1382 2012-11-28 15:31:19 <thermoman> i still have problems to understand this "rules of the network" thing
1383 2012-11-28 15:31:23 <sipa> thermoman: 90% will end up in your fork, 10% on another fork
1384 2012-11-28 15:31:25 <andrew12-> thermoman: or 100BTC, haha!
1385 2012-11-28 15:31:28 <helo> thermoman: however many people you convince to switch will be running off with their own branch of bitcoin that everyone else will ignore
1386 2012-11-28 15:31:33 <gmaxwell> thermoman: whats .. 'the network' mean?
1387 2012-11-28 15:31:37 <sturles> This is like Y2K. Everybody waiting, exited, wondering what it breaks. Then nothing special happens.
1388 2012-11-28 15:31:47 <lianj> sturles: ofc
1389 2012-11-28 15:31:51 <sipa> sturles: i sure hope that!
1390 2012-11-28 15:31:53 <gavinandresen> It's gonna happen.... NOW!
1391 2012-11-28 15:31:59 <gavinandresen> wait, no.... NOW!
1392 2012-11-28 15:32:04 <thermoman> ok - then we have 2 "networks" - 10% and the other 90%
1393 2012-11-28 15:32:06 * andrew12- snaps his fingers
1394 2012-11-28 15:32:08 <lianj> 17min
1395 2012-11-28 15:32:12 <thermoman> and they are not compatible, right?
1396 2012-11-28 15:32:13 JZavala has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1397 2012-11-28 15:32:22 <andrew12-> 5... 4... 3.. 2... 1... NOW!
1398 2012-11-28 15:32:25 <sipa> thermoman: they don't see eachother
1399 2012-11-28 15:32:35 <andrew12-> nope, that was just a transaction...
1400 2012-11-28 15:32:40 <gmaxwell> thermoman: then you get two orthorgonal bitcoins, and all the past open transactions can be spent in either. If your convinced "90%" is just a bunch of copies of yourself its irrelevant. If they're really 90% of the actual users then perhaps that version would become dominant, but more likely bitcoin would fail entirely in that case.
1401 2012-11-28 15:32:52 <sipa> thermoman: but every unspent coin from before the split can be split once in both... == disaster
1402 2012-11-28 15:33:06 <UukGoblin> there's nothing to see. Block 210000 isn't implemented yet. We'll let you know when it is, now move along.
1403 2012-11-28 15:33:15 <gavinandresen> shoulda been a betting pool. I used to live in Alaska, where there's a really big "exactly when will the ice melt on the Yukon river" betting pool every year.
1404 2012-11-28 15:33:34 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: there were a bunch of betting pools.
1405 2012-11-28 15:33:57 <gavinandresen> how'd I miss them? Guess I don't hang out in the right places....
1406 2012-11-28 15:34:04 <topi`> transactions are flooding in ... the blockchain.info window is scrolling...
1407 2012-11-28 15:34:09 <gmaxwell> E.g. http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=852
1408 2012-11-28 15:34:25 <andrew12-> everyone's trying to get into the final block
1409 2012-11-28 15:34:36 <gmaxwell> andrew12-: uh... it's too late for that.
1410 2012-11-28 15:34:46 <topi`> most of the txs are SatoshiDICE
1411 2012-11-28 15:34:49 <andrew12-> okay, the first 25btc block
1412 2012-11-28 15:34:51 <gmaxwell> The final 50 btc block was like.. 10 minutes ago.
1413 2012-11-28 15:34:53 <gmaxwell> okay.
1414 2012-11-28 15:35:03 <sturles> The first block of the new era.
1415 2012-11-28 15:35:14 <ThomasV> can I haz the next block ?
1416 2012-11-28 15:35:19 <jgarzik> That's _so_ ten minutes ago. I mean, really. </valley girl>
1417 2012-11-28 15:35:26 <andrew12-> hahaha
1418 2012-11-28 15:35:28 <thermoman> still at 209999
1419 2012-11-28 15:35:37 <thermoman> don't fuck with us
1420 2012-11-28 15:35:46 <lianj> your client is broken
1421 2012-11-28 15:35:46 <jgarzik> thermoman: not for long. I am CPU mining with _four_ cores now.
1422 2012-11-28 15:35:51 <helo> it's going to take a few blocks for all of these party transactions to be included
1423 2012-11-28 15:35:53 <andrew12-> FOUR?
1424 2012-11-28 15:35:56 <thermoman> jgarzik: :D
1425 2012-11-28 15:35:56 <jgarzik> FOUR.
1426 2012-11-28 15:36:03 <gmaxwell> thermoman: ... huh? 209999 is the last 50 btc block.
1427 2012-11-28 15:36:17 <thermoman> ok
1428 2012-11-28 15:36:26 <sipa> gmaxwell: that's what they WANT you to think
1429 2012-11-28 15:36:34 <ThomasV> block 209999 is the 210000th 50 btc block
1430 2012-11-28 15:36:35 <sturles> Hang on, I'll start mining on my Eeee 901 again to get it done. On BOTH hyperthreads!
1431 2012-11-28 15:36:40 <lianj> 21min
1432 2012-11-28 15:36:43 <jav__> hopefully my new code on bitcoinmonitor.com doesn't break... only updated it like half an hour ago to deal with the new block reward, was hardcoded before =)
1433 2012-11-28 15:36:45 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1434 2012-11-28 15:36:46 <gmaxwell> But by all means feel free to go mine 210000 as 50 btc.
1435 2012-11-28 15:36:53 <andrew12-> so when do we declare bitcoin broken
1436 2012-11-28 15:36:58 <sipa> sturles: be sure to run in a cpu emulator
1437 2012-11-28 15:36:59 <maaku> i assume someone is watching logs for an attempt at continuing 50btc per block?
1438 2012-11-28 15:37:00 <slothbag1> anyone checking the sell orders on mtgox? are they starting to build yet?
1439 2012-11-28 15:37:01 <andrew12-> 2 hours?
1440 2012-11-28 15:37:05 TD has joined
1441 2012-11-28 15:37:07 <MC1984> in an hour or 2
1442 2012-11-28 15:37:09 <andrew12-> maaku: a few people are
1443 2012-11-28 15:37:20 <MC1984> ive seen 70 minute blocks and shit before
1444 2012-11-28 15:37:24 <gmaxwell> maaku: unlikely to notice it thoughâ pools might make them but their own nodes won't relay them.
1445 2012-11-28 15:37:27 <andrew12-> sipa mentioned watching his debug.log
1446 2012-11-28 15:37:28 <sturles> sipa: Hmm, yes! A 64 bit emulator with 4way on. Will crack it faster for sure!
1447 2012-11-28 15:37:37 <jgarzik> heh
1448 2012-11-28 15:37:40 <helo> 210000 seen!
1449 2012-11-28 15:37:47 <gmaxwell> >>> 2012-11-28 15:25:04,534 merkleMaker INFO New block: 000000000000048b95347e83192f69cf0366076336c639f9b7228e9ba171342e (height: 210001; bits: 1a04e0ea)
1450 2012-11-28 15:37:49 <JyZyXEL> why are there so many transactions goin to satoshi :D
1451 2012-11-28 15:37:50 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1452 2012-11-28 15:37:50 <thermoman> 11/28/12 15:24:59 SetBestChain: new best=000000000000048b9534 height=210000 work=628963747775700992096 date=11/28/12 15:24:38
1453 2012-11-28 15:37:50 <sipa> 11/28/12 15:25:00 SetBestChain: new best=000000000000048b9534 height=210000 work=628963747775700992096 tx=9344662 date=11/28/12 15:24:38
1454 2012-11-28 15:37:52 <andrew12-> anyone else think it's interesting that ASICs are hitting AFTER the half reward?
1455 2012-11-28 15:37:55 <jgarzik> 000000000000048b95347e83192f69cf0366076336c639f9b7228e9ba171342e
1456 2012-11-28 15:37:58 <andrew12-> there it is!
1457 2012-11-28 15:38:02 <maaku> happy halving everyone :)
1458 2012-11-28 15:38:09 <lianj> \o/
1459 2012-11-28 15:38:12 <lianj> |
1460 2012-11-28 15:38:12 * jgarzik takes a drink [of soda]
1461 2012-11-28 15:38:18 <andrew12-> dammit slush
1462 2012-11-28 15:38:18 <MC1984> thank fuck
1463 2012-11-28 15:38:19 <OneEyed> Party is over, please go home, see you again in 4 years
1464 2012-11-28 15:38:34 <sturles> Cool fireworks on blockchain.info. :-)
1465 2012-11-28 15:38:37 <helo> bah, my celebratory transaction didn't make it!
1466 2012-11-28 15:38:37 <JyZyXEL> hahah blockchain.info :D
1467 2012-11-28 15:38:37 <sipa> haha firework animation
1468 2012-11-28 15:38:40 <maaku> nice fireworks
1469 2012-11-28 15:38:40 * topi` pops open a bottle of champagne
1470 2012-11-28 15:38:43 <andrew12-> and my browser froze
1471 2012-11-28 15:38:45 <unknown45682> HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!
1472 2012-11-28 15:38:47 <ThomasV> blockchain.info has a fireworks animation
1473 2012-11-28 15:38:48 <slothbag1> WTF.. fireworks on blockchain.info...
1474 2012-11-28 15:38:52 <slothbag1> nice
1475 2012-11-28 15:38:54 Joric has joined
1476 2012-11-28 15:38:56 <gmaxwell> Alas, wasn't meâ I guess you'll never get to see the special message from satoshi block :P
1477 2012-11-28 15:38:57 <andrew12-> completely froze safari
1478 2012-11-28 15:38:58 <jgarzik> hah
1479 2012-11-28 15:39:07 <MC1984> what fireworks
1480 2012-11-28 15:39:13 <sipa> slush got it
1481 2012-11-28 15:39:17 <maaku> dang that's a lot of transaction fees
1482 2012-11-28 15:39:21 <gmaxwell> nice pretty round number "blocks" : 210000,
1483 2012-11-28 15:39:22 <maaku> MC1984: http://blockchain.info/block-index/322335/000000000000048b95347e83192f69cf0366076336c639f9b7228e9ba171342e
1484 2012-11-28 15:39:25 <andrew12-> safari is no longer functioning
1485 2012-11-28 15:39:28 <andrew12-> thanks blockchain.info
1486 2012-11-28 15:39:36 <jgarzik> #210000 transaction fees: 13.56295554 BTC
1487 2012-11-28 15:39:37 <andrew12-> stupid browser
1488 2012-11-28 15:39:41 <jgarzik> almost got there
1489 2012-11-28 15:39:45 <andrew12-> jgarzik: i was trying to say that but i couldn't copy it
1490 2012-11-28 15:39:45 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: wow!
1491 2012-11-28 15:40:06 <jgarzik> surely a new record
1492 2012-11-28 15:40:07 <MC1984> hahahah neat o
1493 2012-11-28 15:40:07 <ThomasV> 13 btc fees
1494 2012-11-28 15:40:13 <MC1984> itz destroying my browser lol
1495 2012-11-28 15:40:20 <kjj> I'll be twice as happy when p2pool gets their next block
1496 2012-11-28 15:40:27 <helo> slush didn't try very hard to fill that block...
1497 2012-11-28 15:40:42 <helo> i was hoping it would be the biggest block ever
1498 2012-11-28 15:40:44 <gmaxwell> someone had a 7BTC fee on a dice transaction 0_o
1499 2012-11-28 15:40:49 <topi`> who's behind blockchain.info? pretty wi fireworks!
1500 2012-11-28 15:40:58 <sipa> topi`: piuk
1501 2012-11-28 15:41:00 <JyZyXEL> Slush is the reason why bitcoin halved
1502 2012-11-28 15:41:12 <gmaxwell> ;;ticker
1503 2012-11-28 15:41:13 <gribble> BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 12.21998, Best ask: 12.21999, Bid-ask spread: 0.00001, Last trade: 12.21999, 24 hour volume: 27799.07043183, 24 hour low: 11.91301, 24 hour high: 12.40712, 24 hour vwap: 12.20339
1504 2012-11-28 15:41:17 <sturles> It worked. How boring. At least I can go home to dinner now. :-)
1505 2012-11-28 15:41:22 <guest___1> so... are blocks going to be coming slowly now?
1506 2012-11-28 15:41:28 <sipa> guest___1: maybe
1507 2012-11-28 15:41:31 <topi`> blockchain.info shows 38 BTC for the block 210000 reward!
1508 2012-11-28 15:41:31 <wladston> I was hoping to get 21000 mined by satoshi with another message
1509 2012-11-28 15:41:34 TD has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1510 2012-11-28 15:41:47 <MC1984> 13btc txn fees shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
1511 2012-11-28 15:41:54 <topi`> that's PLENTY of tx fees
1512 2012-11-28 15:41:55 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
1513 2012-11-28 15:41:56 <JyZyXEL> now wait for the value of btc to double
1514 2012-11-28 15:42:08 <ThomasV> there's one tx with 7btc as fees
1515 2012-11-28 15:42:10 <gmaxwell> JyZyXEL: hopefully you won't be holding your breath.
1516 2012-11-28 15:42:37 <JyZyXEL> im sure it'll happen any second now...
1517 2012-11-28 15:42:39 <jgarzik> hah, davout used a vanity address. blockexplorer.com shows his TX right next to mine.
1518 2012-11-28 15:42:41 <andrew12-> someone probably did the huge fee to reward whoever got the first 25 block
1519 2012-11-28 15:42:44 <gavinandresen> I wonder if slush is using the sort-by-fee instead of sort-by-priority code... if he's not, the next block will have lots of fees, too.
1520 2012-11-28 15:43:02 <jgarzik> davout and I both paid 0.1337 in fees
1521 2012-11-28 15:43:23 <jgarzik> several TX's with 1 BTC fee
1522 2012-11-28 15:44:04 <MC1984> people being generous?
1523 2012-11-28 15:44:08 <topi`> wtf??? "Your share" 0.00000 BTC says Slush
1524 2012-11-28 15:44:11 bitfoo has quit (Quit: foo)
1525 2012-11-28 15:44:13 slush1 has joined
1526 2012-11-28 15:44:17 <topi`> fuck, my score was in the millions
1527 2012-11-28 15:44:25 <helo> why didn't slush include more transactions? the block is only 1/4 full
1528 2012-11-28 15:45:11 <helo> err 1/5
1529 2012-11-28 15:45:12 mareo87 has joined
1530 2012-11-28 15:45:42 <jgarzik> helo: in older code the cost increases as the block fills up
1531 2012-11-28 15:45:43 <topi`> is Slush ever on IRC?
1532 2012-11-28 15:46:00 <helo> silly...
1533 2012-11-28 15:46:01 <jgarzik> helo: and you'd only ever reach 1/2 full without modding the code, IIRC
1534 2012-11-28 15:46:30 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: how full to make your blocks is a command-line param in latest mainline
1535 2012-11-28 15:46:32 jdnavarro has joined
1536 2012-11-28 15:46:42 <gavinandresen> (defaults to half-full)
1537 2012-11-28 15:46:45 <topi`> now stats show my reward as 0.019 btc ... weird shit in slush's stats
1538 2012-11-28 15:46:46 TD has joined
1539 2012-11-28 15:46:53 <MC1984> why half
1540 2012-11-28 15:46:58 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: yep, good stuff
1541 2012-11-28 15:47:14 <jgarzik> though I would prefer sort-by-prio, don't bother with "how full?" question
1542 2012-11-28 15:47:18 <TD> haha
1543 2012-11-28 15:47:28 <TD> i love blockchain.infos page for the 210000th block
1544 2012-11-28 15:47:33 <jgarzik> just try to get <= MAX_BLOCK_SIZE
1545 2012-11-28 15:47:34 <TD> very pretty
1546 2012-11-28 15:47:37 <andrew12-> i don't
1547 2012-11-28 15:47:39 <andrew12-> it froze my browser
1548 2012-11-28 15:47:49 <topi`> lol
1549 2012-11-28 15:47:50 <jgarzik> ;;halfreward
1550 2012-11-28 15:47:51 <gribble> Estimated time of bitcoin block reward halving: Wed Nov 28 15:35:12 2012 UTC | Time remaining: 0 seconds.
1551 2012-11-28 15:47:56 * jgarzik kicks gribble
1552 2012-11-28 15:48:02 <jgarzik> hardcoded code: found
1553 2012-11-28 15:48:07 <topi`> jgarzik: is he your bot? :)
1554 2012-11-28 15:48:12 <panzer> andrew12-, we talked about this. you need to upgrade from IE5
1555 2012-11-28 15:48:14 <jgarzik> topi`: nanotube's :)
1556 2012-11-28 15:48:14 <gmaxwell> meh. small blocks are our startup funding.
1557 2012-11-28 15:48:21 <topi`> ah, of course :) poor nano
1558 2012-11-28 15:48:22 <wladston> Reward I got from 21000 from slush : 0.00305296
1559 2012-11-28 15:48:29 diki has joined
1560 2012-11-28 15:48:42 <andrew12-> panzer: i'm using the latest safari on mountain lion
1561 2012-11-28 15:49:00 <panzer> even worse
1562 2012-11-28 15:49:04 <andrew12-> .
1563 2012-11-28 15:49:29 <gavinandresen> MC1984: why half: because when I changed the rules I set the defaults so the new rules would behave a lot like the old rules. Because I worry about unintended consequences of sudden rule changes.
1564 2012-11-28 15:49:43 <denisx> wtf? 13.56295554 Fee?
1565 2012-11-28 15:49:54 <MC1984> changed what rules?
1566 2012-11-28 15:50:14 <andrew12-> this time it didn't freeze it
1567 2012-11-28 15:50:21 <gavinandresen> The default rules miners follow for what transactions to include in the blocks they create.
1568 2012-11-28 15:50:29 <gmaxwell> and 210001 exists now
1569 2012-11-28 15:50:48 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
1570 2012-11-28 15:50:50 <gribble> Current Blocks: 210001 | Current Difficulty: 3438908.9601591 | Next Difficulty At Block: 211679 | Next Difficulty In: 1678 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 20 hours, 5 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 3695371.10357506 | Estimated Percent Change: 7.45766015871
1571 2012-11-28 15:51:04 <gavinandresen> Nice. I guess all the major pools got their block creation code correct.
1572 2012-11-28 15:51:04 <lianj> mtgox already going up?
1573 2012-11-28 15:51:35 <MC1984> i see
1574 2012-11-28 15:51:38 <davout> HAPPY HALVING BROS
1575 2012-11-28 15:51:38 <jgarzik> #210001 transaction fees: 0.48410003 BTC
1576 2012-11-28 15:51:46 <davout> jgarzik: lol
1577 2012-11-28 15:51:50 <lianj> jgarzik: hihi
1578 2012-11-28 15:51:56 <JyZyXEL> #210000 was rigged!
1579 2012-11-28 15:51:58 <wladston> lol
1580 2012-11-28 15:52:11 <Joric> hackers!
1581 2012-11-28 15:52:18 steven1234 has joined
1582 2012-11-28 15:52:54 <andrew12-> wow @ estimated % change
1583 2012-11-28 15:53:07 <Joric> i had a conversation lately with some it geeks from work they say bitcoin is hopeless it was hacked a long while ago!
1584 2012-11-28 15:53:48 <helo> yeah, a lot of people think that...
1585 2012-11-28 15:53:51 <lianj> hacked by hype maybe
1586 2012-11-28 15:53:54 <andrew12-> some people are clueless
1587 2012-11-28 15:54:06 <MC1984> ok so
1588 2012-11-28 15:54:12 <MC1984> everything went smoothly right
1589 2012-11-28 15:54:18 <lianj> ofc
1590 2012-11-28 15:54:22 <helo> with normal centralized ventures, if something gets hacked or loses value to the extent that bitcoin does, everything is over
1591 2012-11-28 15:54:42 <andrew12-> does artforz still hang around these parts?
1592 2012-11-28 15:54:48 <helo> but people don't know that bitcoin isn't the same as old stuff
1593 2012-11-28 15:55:22 <andrew12-> I think he is a Pretty Cool Guy. He mined Bitcoins and doesn't afraid of anything.
1594 2012-11-28 15:55:34 <gmaxwell> helo: yea, just like how all banking went away after leeman bros went underâ¦
1595 2012-11-28 15:55:41 <TD> the number of transaction hashes in 210,000 that contain the word "fee" is remarkable
1596 2012-11-28 15:55:54 <andrew12-> haha!
1597 2012-11-28 15:56:02 <sipa> TD: there was some call-for-high-fees on the forum for the last tx
1598 2012-11-28 15:56:07 <sipa> eh, last block
1599 2012-11-28 15:56:08 <TD> indeed
1600 2012-11-28 15:56:11 <TD> and they managed it, apparently
1601 2012-11-28 15:56:16 <TD> 13 btc of fee
1602 2012-11-28 15:56:24 <sipa> i didn't expect such a takeup though
1603 2012-11-28 15:56:32 <Joric> time to scrap all those gpu rigs
1604 2012-11-28 15:56:35 <gmaxwell> well it was mostly from one txn.
1605 2012-11-28 15:56:39 <andrew12-> Joric: not yet!
1606 2012-11-28 15:56:41 jimbo__ has left ("Leaving")
1607 2012-11-28 15:56:43 <kinlo> it only takes one crazy person to give much fee
1608 2012-11-28 15:56:43 <jgarzik> forum quote: "so we hit the halving. and p2pool thinks the next block is worth 38.55495555 BTC"
1609 2012-11-28 15:56:45 <jgarzik> p2pool thread
1610 2012-11-28 15:56:52 mareo87 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1611 2012-11-28 15:57:11 <Joric> brainwallet.org did a few decent fees )
1612 2012-11-28 15:57:13 <jgarzik> love it
1613 2012-11-28 15:57:13 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: yea, "pools that let miners have the txn fees... A NOVEL IDEA"
1614 2012-11-28 15:57:17 <andrew12-> it's saying 25.feeshere for me
1615 2012-11-28 15:57:44 <gmaxwell> andrew12-: there were a bunch of fees at 210000.
1616 2012-11-28 15:57:44 <MC1984> anyone know what the advanced: disable in the bottom of blockchain.ifo means
1617 2012-11-28 15:57:51 <andrew12-> gmaxwell: yeah i know
1618 2012-11-28 15:58:02 <andrew12-> i wasn't mining on p2pool for it though
1619 2012-11-28 15:58:15 slothbag1 has quit (Quit: I quit!)
1620 2012-11-28 15:58:18 <andrew12-> back on it now though
1621 2012-11-28 15:58:42 <helo> gmaxwell: lehman didn't halve the value of the dollar four times
1622 2012-11-28 15:59:29 <andrew12-> "The Times 28/Nov/2012 Chancellor on brink of /third/ bailout for banks" ribuck ~ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=119168.msg1363973#msg1363973
1623 2012-11-28 15:59:36 <gmaxwell> it may surprise you to know this, but MTGOX LAST is not the 'value' of bitcoin. It's simply what the last sucker or lucky bastard paid.
1624 2012-11-28 16:00:52 Jaagu has left ()
1625 2012-11-28 16:01:35 steven1234 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1626 2012-11-28 16:07:20 Ymgve has joined
1627 2012-11-28 16:07:33 molec has joined
1628 2012-11-28 16:07:44 <andrew12-> gmaxwell: REALLY?
1629 2012-11-28 16:07:56 <Ymgve> What does lots of "mempool Tx prev not found" in the log mean?
1630 2012-11-28 16:08:01 wladston has left ()
1631 2012-11-28 16:09:37 <MC1984> hey if i started an otc profile
1632 2012-11-28 16:10:06 <MC1984> whats the best way to get at least a few +1
1633 2012-11-28 16:11:00 <helo> MC1984: do transactions with people
1634 2012-11-28 16:11:14 <MC1984> also is there anywhere that has a nice visualisation of the web of trust
1635 2012-11-28 16:12:19 <t7> MC1984: good luck getting your key accepted :(
1636 2012-11-28 16:12:33 <MC1984> ?
1637 2012-11-28 16:12:44 <MC1984> i dont even have a pgp yet
1638 2012-11-28 16:13:02 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1639 2012-11-28 16:14:40 DutchBrat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1640 2012-11-28 16:17:24 TD has joined
1641 2012-11-28 16:17:33 AlbusTalpa has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1642 2012-11-28 16:17:39 <jgarzik> Quoting slush, on the forum: Btw block was found by user 'luckybear'.
1643 2012-11-28 16:19:32 <TD> ahaha
1644 2012-11-28 16:19:35 <TD> that's classic
1645 2012-11-28 16:20:39 <TD> hmm
1646 2012-11-28 16:20:44 <TD> someelse says the username was luckyshare
1647 2012-11-28 16:20:48 <TD> even better if true
1648 2012-11-28 16:20:58 davout has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1649 2012-11-28 16:22:58 theymos has joined
1650 2012-11-28 16:24:09 molec has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1651 2012-11-28 16:24:41 <TD> does anyone keep a list of all unique subVers seen?
1652 2012-11-28 16:25:48 BitDev has joined
1653 2012-11-28 16:26:29 <BitDev> hi all
1654 2012-11-28 16:28:38 datagutt is now known as datagoute
1655 2012-11-28 16:29:12 arij has joined
1656 2012-11-28 16:29:19 <BitDev> i have another question if my soft calculate new block header and i want to send it to other nodes - what packet i must use? inv packet + block packet or header packet?
1657 2012-11-28 16:29:35 arij is now known as Guest24305
1658 2012-11-28 16:31:31 <forrestv> my debug.log has several thousand "ERROR: mempool transaction missing input" in a row from about three hours ago..
1659 2012-11-28 16:32:35 <gmaxwell> sipa: 2033 seems to not be catching fire for me.
1660 2012-11-28 16:32:46 <jgarzik> w00t, economic @tylercowen just tweeted about Halving Day
1661 2012-11-28 16:32:50 <jgarzik> *economist
1662 2012-11-28 16:33:06 x18882 has joined
1663 2012-11-28 16:34:25 JZavala has joined
1664 2012-11-28 16:35:07 <gmaxwell> hm.
1665 2012-11-28 16:36:36 exocaesar is now known as fulgers
1666 2012-11-28 16:36:55 fulgers is now known as exocaesar
1667 2012-11-28 16:37:03 <gmaxwell> I'm getting a lot of 11/27/12 22:18:09 ERROR: CheckInputs() : 4005d6bea3 VerifySignature failed
1668 2012-11-28 16:37:16 legitnick has joined
1669 2012-11-28 16:37:25 exocaesar is now known as help
1670 2012-11-28 16:37:33 <gmaxwell> on a node whith no log evidence as to why.. e.g. no logs are indicating that anyone is giving me that txn or a block with it.. it's just cropping up spontaniously.
1671 2012-11-28 16:37:49 help is now known as exocaesar
1672 2012-11-28 16:37:51 <t7> is there a btc dev donation address?
1673 2012-11-28 16:38:17 <TD> t7: you can donate to the foundation
1674 2012-11-28 16:38:26 <TD> t7: a membership is 25 BTC, which is a fair bit, but i think you can donate less
1675 2012-11-28 16:38:36 <TD> t7: foundation employs gavin, so that pretty much directly goes to keeping him fed and full time
1676 2012-11-28 16:39:05 <TD> gmaxwell: bitcoin logging could use some intense focus from someone who cares for a week or two
1677 2012-11-28 16:39:09 <TD> it's pretty ad hoc and uncontrollable
1678 2012-11-28 16:39:23 <gmaxwell> sipa: $ ~/bitcoin/src/bitcoind getrawmempool | grep 4005d "4005d6bea3a93fb72f006d23e2685b85069d270cb57d15f0c057ef2d5e3f78d2",
1679 2012-11-28 16:39:25 datagoute is now known as datagutt
1680 2012-11-28 16:39:50 <gmaxwell> on a node running 2033. Not sure if this is a new bug or an old one. But I suspect the constant checking on in producing those log entries is a new one.
1681 2012-11-28 16:40:17 <gmaxwell> (4005d6bea3a93fb72f006d23e2685b85069d270cb57d15f0c057ef2d5e3f78d2 is the invalid p2sh killer, it probably made its way into the mempool because it had been put in blocks that got rejected??)
1682 2012-11-28 16:46:39 <sipa> gmaxwell: sounds to me like someone is constantly sending that tx to you?
1683 2012-11-28 16:46:57 <gmaxwell> they aren't, I'd see other mentions of it. It's in my mempool somehow.
1684 2012-11-28 16:47:21 <drizztbsd> block 210000 have too many fees
1685 2012-11-28 16:47:21 <sipa> what is "a node running 2033" ?
1686 2012-11-28 16:47:22 <drizztbsd> http://blockchain.info/block-index/322335/000000000000048b95347e83192f69cf0366076336c639f9b7228e9ba171342e
1687 2012-11-28 16:47:24 <drizztbsd> is it normal?
1688 2012-11-28 16:47:33 <drizztbsd> 13.56295554 BTC sounds strange
1689 2012-11-28 16:47:39 <jgarzik> drizztbsd: it's a trap!
1690 2012-11-28 16:47:40 <gmaxwell> sipa: ultraprune plus pull 2033.
1691 2012-11-28 16:47:44 jav__ has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
1692 2012-11-28 16:48:01 <gmaxwell> sipa: and my regular 0.7.1 and ultraprune nodes do not have that txn in their mempools.
1693 2012-11-28 16:48:19 <sipa> gmaxwell: and 2033 does?
1694 2012-11-28 16:48:32 <gmaxwell> Correct.
1695 2012-11-28 16:49:04 <sipa> gmaxwell: well, it could be that it conflicts with a (rejected) transaction that is in 0.7.1/head's mempool
1696 2012-11-28 16:49:09 Guest24305 has quit (Changing host)
1697 2012-11-28 16:49:09 Guest24305 has joined
1698 2012-11-28 16:49:10 <sipa> but doesn't conflict with the blockchain
1699 2012-11-28 16:49:17 <gmaxwell> but the txn is _invalid_
1700 2012-11-28 16:49:25 Guest24305 is now known as arij
1701 2012-11-28 16:49:30 <sipa> oh, right
1702 2012-11-28 16:49:31 <gmaxwell> it's a p2sh violation.
1703 2012-11-28 16:49:44 <sipa> so how did it enter the mempool in the first place
1704 2012-11-28 16:50:02 <gmaxwell> ah!
1705 2012-11-28 16:50:11 <gmaxwell> hah
1706 2012-11-28 16:50:17 <gmaxwell> I think it got there during IBD.
1707 2012-11-28 16:50:18 sneak has quit (Quit: leaving)
1708 2012-11-28 16:50:26 <gmaxwell> well, loadblock technically.
1709 2012-11-28 16:50:27 sneak has joined
1710 2012-11-28 16:50:27 sneak has quit (Changing host)
1711 2012-11-28 16:50:27 sneak has joined
1712 2012-11-28 16:50:48 <gmaxwell> I suppose I should make the P2SH enforcement like the BIP30 one.
1713 2012-11-28 16:50:51 Diapolo has joined
1714 2012-11-28 16:51:08 <sipa> mempool always checks P2SH
1715 2012-11-28 16:51:22 exocaesar has left ()
1716 2012-11-28 16:51:26 <sipa> and always checks sigs
1717 2012-11-28 16:51:51 <gmaxwell> 11/27/12 20:44:29 ProcessBlock: ACCEPTED
1718 2012-11-28 16:51:51 <gmaxwell> 11/27/12 20:44:29 SetBestChain: new best=00000000000004f3cf5af3ded18a301faa24aabd48a5d274a5cee54d21dee7b8 height=174772 work=287469039101525713873 tx=2780584 date=04/08
1719 2012-11-28 16:51:54 <gmaxwell> /12 10:04:30
1720 2012-11-28 16:51:56 <gmaxwell> 11/27/12 20:44:29 ProcessBlock: ACCEPTED
1721 2012-11-28 16:51:59 <gmaxwell> 11/27/12 20:44:29 ProcessBlock: ACCEPTED
1722 2012-11-28 16:52:01 <gmaxwell> 11/27/12 20:44:29 REORGANIZE: Disconnect 1 blocks; 000000000000043eed604341f3fc89330c32c7fb5509120e0e4db3f096584154..00000000000004f3cf5af3ded18a301faa24aabd48a5d274a5cee54
1723 2012-11-28 16:52:04 <gmaxwell> d21dee7b8
1724 2012-11-28 16:52:06 <gmaxwell> 11/27/12 20:44:29 REORGANIZE: Connect 2 blocks; 000000000000043eed604341f3fc89330c32c7fb5509120e0e4db3f096584154..00000000000007c6db15b6af5ecf6d6d626e1edd7005cd569d86f9fd0c
1725 2012-11-28 16:52:10 <gmaxwell> 50a15a
1726 2012-11-28 16:52:12 <gmaxwell> 11/27/12 20:44:29 CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 2c1847f9c5 (poolsz 1)
1727 2012-11-28 16:52:15 <gmaxwell> 11/27/12 20:44:29 CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 7c721157ed (poolsz 2)
1728 2012-11-28 16:52:15 <sipa> aha
1729 2012-11-28 16:52:17 <gmaxwell> 11/27/12 20:44:29 CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 4005d6bea3 (poolsz 3)
1730 2012-11-28 16:52:18 <sipa> !
1731 2012-11-28 16:52:20 <gmaxwell> 11/27/12 20:44:29 CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted e342258d90 (poolsz 4)
1732 2012-11-28 16:52:22 <gmaxwell> 11/27/12 20:44:29 CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted fec940d71a (poolsz 5)
1733 2012-11-28 16:52:25 <gmaxwell> 11/27/12 20:44:29 CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 54347030d6 (poolsz 6)
1734 2012-11-28 16:52:27 <gmaxwell> 11/27/12 20:44:29 SetBestChain: new best=00000000000007c6db15b6af5ecf6d6d626e1edd7005cd569d86f9fd0c50a15a height=174773 work=287476025202132652158 tx=2780718 date=04/08/12 10:39:28
1735 2012-11-28 16:52:30 <MC1984> SPAM
1736 2012-11-28 16:52:31 <gmaxwell> (er, sorry)
1737 2012-11-28 16:52:40 * jgarzik wonders if BlueMatt's test stuff can generate reorgs
1738 2012-11-28 16:52:42 <sipa> so it was in a block, and got reorged
1739 2012-11-28 16:52:48 <sipa> jgarzik: it does, afaik
1740 2012-11-28 16:52:57 <gmaxwell> I see several incidences of CTxMemPool::accept() for that transaction.
1741 2012-11-28 16:53:00 <jgarzik> pynode still has reorg bugs :/
1742 2012-11-28 16:53:01 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: yea, thats half its tests.
1743 2012-11-28 16:53:06 <sipa> gmaxwell: and transactions that were in the chain are not verified again for moving to mempool
1744 2012-11-28 16:53:20 <gmaxwell> sipa: right, but why were the blocks that had it accepted?
1745 2012-11-28 16:53:29 <gmaxwell> Sounds like p2sh enforcement isn't working right
1746 2012-11-28 16:53:58 <sipa> well the transaction got in before the p2sh changeover, and was reorged
1747 2012-11-28 16:54:05 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: erm, shouldnt it basically be coded that the tx new constructor verifies it in the constructor?
1748 2012-11-28 16:54:20 <gmaxwell> sipa: I'm pretty sure it did not.
1749 2012-11-28 16:54:51 <gmaxwell> then again I dunno why I would have had that block on the disk here. I was certantly running p2sh enforcing code at the time.
1750 2012-11-28 16:55:28 <sipa> well it seems 4005d was in block 00000000000004f3cf5af3ded18a301faa24aabd48a5d274a5cee54, which was perfectly accepted by your node
1751 2012-11-28 16:55:31 <sipa> but reorged away
1752 2012-11-28 16:55:49 <gmaxwell> right
1753 2012-11-28 16:55:49 <gmaxwell> 11/27/12 20:44:29 SetBestChain: new best=00000000000004f3cf5af3ded18a301faa24aabd48a5d274a5cee54d21dee7b8 height=174772 work=287469039101525713873 tx=2780584 date=04/08/12 10:04:30
1754 2012-11-28 16:56:26 da2ce7 has joined
1755 2012-11-28 16:56:46 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: I've been passing around a blk0001.dat that originated from eu1.bitcoincharts.com, because it was a useful test case, containing invalid P2SH transactions and reorgs.
1756 2012-11-28 16:56:56 <gmaxwell> int64 nBIP16SwitchTime = 1333238400;
1757 2012-11-28 16:57:02 <jgarzik> That might be why you had it. Doesn't speak to why it was accepted etc.
1758 2012-11-28 16:57:27 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: yea, I don't think thats the case on this node... but I'll never know for sure.
1759 2012-11-28 16:57:35 <sipa> gmaxwell: april 1st?
1760 2012-11-28 16:57:43 <sipa> that doesn't make sense
1761 2012-11-28 16:57:48 <gmaxwell> Right.
1762 2012-11-28 16:57:57 <gmaxwell> I accepted that block but shouldn't have.
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1765 2012-11-28 16:58:37 <gmaxwell> Then it got reorged out, and that txn ended up in my mempool... and now my node is periodically bitching about itâ presumably by the script checking in createblock.
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1769 2012-11-28 16:59:18 <sipa> so why was it accepted?
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1771 2012-11-28 17:00:18 <sipa> *because scripts aren't validated at all before the checkpoint* !!!
1772 2012-11-28 17:00:39 <sipa> haha
1773 2012-11-28 17:00:41 <gmaxwell> yep. you beat me to saying it.
1774 2012-11-28 17:00:42 <jgarzik> heh, that might be why
1775 2012-11-28 17:00:51 <sipa> wow
1776 2012-11-28 17:00:54 <gmaxwell> still dunno how it ended up in my chain here.
1777 2012-11-28 17:01:15 <sipa> this is like a chain of 4 more-or-less bugs that combine into a real bug
1778 2012-11-28 17:01:25 <sipa> like, yeah, totally
1779 2012-11-28 17:01:25 <gmaxwell> This script not verifying stuff is a bad feature. Too bad it's finally important for performance. :(
1780 2012-11-28 17:01:41 <sipa> gmaxwell: in headers-first mode it would be much more safe
1781 2012-11-28 17:01:52 <jgarzik> sipa: is there a command line option to disable checkpoints? I cannot see one...
1782 2012-11-28 17:01:58 <sipa> jgarzik: there isn't one
1783 2012-11-28 17:02:05 <jgarzik> mind if I add one?
1784 2012-11-28 17:02:07 <sipa> jgarzik: iirc i lobbied for one at the time :p
1785 2012-11-28 17:02:15 <jgarzik> ok, pull req coming up then :)
1786 2012-11-28 17:02:18 <gmaxwell> Sounds fine to me.
1787 2012-11-28 17:02:21 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: yes, my test scripts do reorgs
1788 2012-11-28 17:02:26 <BlueMatt> (lots of them)
1789 2012-11-28 17:02:42 <BlueMatt> (but if I missed any fun ones, please ping me)
1790 2012-11-28 17:03:12 <sipa> gmaxwell: actually... why oh why do we even bother moving transactions from disconnected branches to the mempool while in IBD?
1791 2012-11-28 17:03:36 <gmaxwell> sipa: the only argument I really have against changing that is that the IBD detection logic is kinda lossy.
1792 2012-11-28 17:04:02 <sipa> ok, make it before the checkpoint then
1793 2012-11-28 17:04:12 <sipa> which exactly covers the cases we need to cover
1794 2012-11-28 17:04:32 <sipa> forrestv: that problem should be fixed by #2033
1795 2012-11-28 17:04:48 <gmaxwell> (that was why I started talking about 2033 after forrestv commented)
1796 2012-11-28 17:05:00 <sipa> yeah, i thought so, but i'm not sure that was clear to him
1797 2012-11-28 17:05:53 <gmaxwell> sipa: we should probably check transactions when moving them into the mempool too.
1798 2012-11-28 17:06:07 <sipa> gmaxwell: ACK
1799 2012-11-28 17:06:22 <sipa> they should always be sigcached anyway
1800 2012-11-28 17:06:29 <Diapolo> sipa: is #2033 considered final? I would then merge that to my local build if it has no known bugs left.
1801 2012-11-28 17:06:39 <gmaxwell> I note that if we removed script checking from createblock this set of bugs would have made me attempt to mine an invalid block. :P
1802 2012-11-28 17:06:41 <sipa> Diapolo: i like to get some acks
1803 2012-11-28 17:07:12 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: I'm testing it.
1804 2012-11-28 17:07:41 <Diapolo> sipa: I mostly don't ever ACK such core changes, as I never tried to understand that whole bitcoin magic, I can see if it compiles and doesn't cause obvious problems though.
1805 2012-11-28 17:07:43 <gmaxwell> It could use more testing, since I've been somewhat time limited lately all I've done so far is thrown it on an node and looked for fire.
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1807 2012-11-28 17:09:24 <sipa> gmaxwell: so 1) enable disconnect->mempool scriptchecks 2) disable disconnect->mempool before checkpoint 3) add switch to do scriptchecking everywhere ... anything else related?
1808 2012-11-28 17:09:52 <sipa> gmaxwell: now the next question, why didn't 4005d get in your other nodes' mempools?
1809 2012-11-28 17:10:20 <gmaxwell> sipa: pretty simple: they've been restarted since they loadblocks last!
1810 2012-11-28 17:10:26 <sipa> ha!
1811 2012-11-28 17:11:00 <sipa> so... the presumed bug wasn't related to #2033 at all
1812 2012-11-28 17:11:02 <gmaxwell> it also may not be in their blockfiles... either reason would be sufficient.
1813 2012-11-28 17:11:15 * sipa feels like sherlock() holmes
1814 2012-11-28 17:11:38 <gmaxwell> No, though it may be the case that 2033 made it more obvious. I'm not sure about that. Been debating trying to reproduce it without 2033 but resyncing the chain is a pain.
1815 2012-11-28 17:11:40 <Diapolo> sipa: can you rebase 2033 it looks weird in the diff
1816 2012-11-28 17:11:50 <jgarzik> sipa: BTW, still no crash here. I am curious. If I managed to preserve corrupted files in the future... would you be able to receive them quickly via 'rsync --checksum'? Or IOW, given a sane, in-order bootstrap.dat or IBD, are "most" blockchain data and index files going to be byte-for-byte identical across installs?
1817 2012-11-28 17:12:55 <sipa> jgarzik: i wouldn't count on it for the leveldb files
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1819 2012-11-28 17:13:31 <sipa> for the block data files and undo files you should get byte-for-byte identities when they were fed the same order of blocks
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1821 2012-11-28 17:14:39 <sipa> jgarzik: also, interesting to know perhaps: you can (when bitcoin isn't running) replace blocks/ + blktree/ without touching coins/ (as long as the old best block is in the new data files)
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1827 2012-11-28 17:16:24 <sipa> jgarzik: and the other way around as well (which implies you can just remove coins/, and it will rebuild it at startup)
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1831 2012-11-28 17:20:20 <sipa> jgarzik: so that means you can produce torrents with blocks/blk* + blktree/*, and let people just replace theirs with it
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1833 2012-11-28 17:20:34 <sipa> jgarzik: as long as those are newer than the state they were
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1835 2012-11-28 17:21:50 <jgarzik> interesting
1836 2012-11-28 17:23:36 <sipa> jgarzik: pull #2**11 !
1837 2012-11-28 17:24:03 <Diapolo> sipa: would you rebase #2033 for me ;)? I wanted to diff without git and there are more differences than what Github shows me ...
1838 2012-11-28 17:24:10 <jgarzik> heh
1839 2012-11-28 17:24:37 * jgarzik fixes incorrect 'checkpoints' default
1840 2012-11-28 17:25:47 <sipa> Diapolo: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2033.diff
1841 2012-11-28 17:26:05 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: you have a default value problem there.
1842 2012-11-28 17:26:10 <gmaxwell> hah.
1843 2012-11-28 17:26:11 <gmaxwell> yea.
1844 2012-11-28 17:26:32 <gmaxwell> the double negative was bending my mind for a second. I'm slow today.
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1846 2012-11-28 17:27:04 <Diapolo> sipa: got it, seems the file is missing the CBlockHeader changes, don't mind
1847 2012-11-28 17:27:08 <gmaxwell> "wait ... if not false then null. so then if true then false than true! AAAHH"
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1850 2012-11-28 17:30:31 <gmaxwell> sipa: one thought I have on 2033 is that there is a little bit of a DOS vector here.. as I could give your mempool a chain of 10000 txn, double spend the first and cause a lot of recursive removal. Unfortunately multiple parents mean we can't just make the mempool dependency structured so that the recursive remove is O(1).
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1852 2012-11-28 17:30:53 <gmaxwell> (not that its a reason to not do 2033... failing to remove them is not an improvement.)
1853 2012-11-28 17:33:19 <sipa> gmaxwell: amortized, every transaction is added once and removed once from the mempool
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1857 2012-11-28 17:39:32 <sipa> gmaxwell: there are two maps with O(log n) behaviour involved though
1858 2012-11-28 17:40:07 <gmaxwell> right, so you get n * 2 * log n in the case I gaveâ but you're right, it's really not worse than any other kind of txn flood.
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1881 2012-11-28 18:07:04 <nanotube> jgarzik: ,,halfreward <- not hard coded. :) it just had issues when there were exactly 210000.
1882 2012-11-28 18:07:05 <gribble> Estimated time of bitcoin block reward halving: Fri Nov 25 22:44:25 2016 UTC | Time remaining: 3 years, 51 weeks, 6 days, 4 hours, 50 minutes, and 0 seconds.
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1894 2012-11-28 18:17:10 <BitDev> can anyone help me, if my software found block hash - how to notify other nodes of new hash?
1895 2012-11-28 18:17:56 <sipa> send an inv packet
1896 2012-11-28 18:18:22 <BitDev> sipa thnx and after that i will get block packet?
1897 2012-11-28 18:18:29 <BitDev> to get more info about this?
1898 2012-11-28 18:18:39 <sipa> if they didn't know about it yet
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1900 2012-11-28 18:18:58 <sipa> inv just announces the presence of a piece of data
1901 2012-11-28 18:19:07 <sipa> whether they ask the actual data is up to them
1902 2012-11-28 18:19:30 <BitDev> yes, and they only send block packet or can header packet send to?
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1905 2012-11-28 18:21:58 <jgarzik> BitDev: if you send 'getdata', the remote peer returns "block" and "tx" messages. if you send 'getheaders', the remote peer returns "headers" messages.
1906 2012-11-28 18:22:06 <jgarzik> and vice versa
1907 2012-11-28 18:22:16 <Diapolo> are there known difficulties with testnet IDB currently?
1908 2012-11-28 18:22:24 <jgarzik> Diapolo: not here
1909 2012-11-28 18:22:36 <jgarzik> Diapolo: Just make sure you connect to a known-working testnet3 node
1910 2012-11-28 18:22:53 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: none that I'm aware of.
1911 2012-11-28 18:22:54 <jgarzik> Diapolo: you can use us4.exmulti.net as a publicly known node
1912 2012-11-28 18:23:16 <Luke-Jr> fwiw, I can't even get mainnet IBD on master
1913 2012-11-28 18:23:27 <Diapolo> I seem to get to the point where there are the ORPHAN BLOCK errors
1914 2012-11-28 18:23:40 <jgarzik> orphan block is not an error
1915 2012-11-28 18:23:50 <jgarzik> it is an indication of an out-of-order block
1916 2012-11-28 18:24:02 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: I get 100% orphan block messages trying to reindex a working blk*.dat file
1917 2012-11-28 18:24:09 <jgarzik> it is normal to see a bunch of ORPHAN BLOCK, and then a string of SetBestChain all at once
1918 2012-11-28 18:24:19 <Diapolo> sorry didn't meant to say error, but I can't seem to do a full IDB currently will try your node
1919 2012-11-28 18:24:47 <gmaxwell> "can't"
1920 2012-11-28 18:24:51 <gmaxwell> Please clarify.
1921 2012-11-28 18:25:08 <gmaxwell> getting a bunch of 'ORPHAN BLOCK' messages is normal and expected.
1922 2012-11-28 18:25:19 <gmaxwell> (not ideal, but thats now it works right now)
1923 2012-11-28 18:25:22 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: importing an in-order blk*.dat?
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1926 2012-11-28 18:25:46 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: pulling from network.
1927 2012-11-28 18:26:04 <gmaxwell> what happens when pulling is that a new block from the network will trigger a bunch of out of order fetching.
1928 2012-11-28 18:26:33 <Diapolo> gmaxwell: just a sec, will try an -addnode=us4.exmulti.net
1929 2012-11-28 18:27:40 <Luke-Jr> Diapolo: that won't change what gmaxwell said
1930 2012-11-28 18:27:58 <Diapolo> I just want to verify, if I can do a full sync on testnet
1931 2012-11-28 18:28:49 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: you should be able to do that without adding anything.
1932 2012-11-28 18:28:54 <gmaxwell> If you can't then something is broken.
1933 2012-11-28 18:30:01 <Diapolo> perhaps I broke my local build, which I seem to have done, as no one else has problems here with IDB on testnet ^^
1934 2012-11-28 18:31:27 <gmaxwell> sipa: so, do we care that in a worst case the recursive removal might use something like a half meg of memory? (E.g. recursing 10,000 deep)
1935 2012-11-28 18:31:47 <gmaxwell> Diapolo: what is the actual problem? you have not yet described a problem
1936 2012-11-28 18:31:47 <sipa> gmaxwell: i would care if that would be 50 MB
1937 2012-11-28 18:32:32 <gmaxwell> yea, I don't see how it could be that big.
1938 2012-11-28 18:32:44 <Diapolo> I seem to have introduced a bug with CBlock::WriteToDisk() while trying to test a replacement of CAutoFile
1939 2012-11-28 18:33:38 <sipa> Luke-Jr: sure you didn't overwrite the blockfile by running test_bitcoin in between?
1940 2012-11-28 18:33:46 Varan has joined
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1942 2012-11-28 18:34:47 <sipa> Luke-Jr: that would exactly explain tons of orphan files, as the start of the file is overwritten
1943 2012-11-28 18:34:54 <sipa> Luke-Jr: eh, orphan blocks
1944 2012-11-28 18:35:29 <Luke-Jr> i c
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1947 2012-11-28 18:38:01 <Diapolo> sipa: How does FlushBlockFile() work, can it get called while doing WriteToDisk() or ReadFromDisk() stuff?
1948 2012-11-28 18:38:28 <andrew12-> is there a sort of testnet with faster blocks? i was going to try i0coin but it seems to be dead
1949 2012-11-28 18:38:28 <sipa> Diapolo: i don't think so
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1951 2012-11-28 18:39:10 <andrew12-> ditto for geistgeld and pretty much everything other than litecoin
1952 2012-11-28 18:39:37 <gmaxwell> andrew12-: just make your own.
1953 2012-11-28 18:39:45 <andrew12-> oh true... i keep forgetting about that.
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1955 2012-11-28 18:43:21 <Varan> Is there some kind of overlay protocol for bitcoin. To reject or accept transitions?
1956 2012-11-28 18:43:31 <gmaxwell> transitions???
1957 2012-11-28 18:43:40 <Varan> transactions :P
1958 2012-11-28 18:43:42 <Varan> sorry
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1961 2012-11-28 18:47:21 <Diapolo> sipa: perhaps you can share some thoughts, I changed FlushBlockFile() to only do FileCommit() and fclose() when "if (fileOld) {" ... that seems to cause errors I reverted to your original code and now I was successful with testnet IDB
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1965 2012-11-28 18:51:00 <Diapolo> IBD ^^
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1968 2012-11-28 18:53:08 <sipa> Diapolo: hmm, i'll have a look
1969 2012-11-28 18:55:57 <Diapolo> sipa: thanks
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1975 2012-11-28 19:04:19 <andrew12-> wonder how difficult it would be to create a testnet that had a target of 2^256 - 1 where you can just click to generate a block
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1977 2012-11-28 19:05:04 <andrew12-> would certainly be a lot nicer for creating services than having to actually mine
1978 2012-11-28 19:05:30 <andrew12-> could probably make one pretty easily if I understood bitcoin's code...
1979 2012-11-28 19:06:13 * andrew12- bbl
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1993 2012-11-28 19:19:26 <kjj> woohoo. p2pool got a block, now I can stop worrying about my mining rigs
1994 2012-11-28 19:20:01 <Diablo-D3> lol
1995 2012-11-28 19:20:11 <maaku> andrew12-: run testnet in a box at difficulty 1
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2012 2012-11-28 19:31:25 <kjj> question on the RPC SSL stuff because I don't have time to go into the code to look. Is the server just wrapping the clear connection in SSL, or is it using something like STARTTLS to negotiate inline?
2013 2012-11-28 19:32:11 <kjj> my guess so far is the first one, but I wanted to check before I suggest someone use a generic SSL wrapper to debug his problem
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2030 2012-11-28 19:49:15 <slush> gavinandresen: I'm using bitcoin 0.7.0, so it is 'sort by fee'
2031 2012-11-28 19:49:22 <gavinandresen> kjj: it is a full-blown TLS/SSL connection
2032 2012-11-28 19:49:34 <gavinandresen> slush: excellent. And congratulations!
2033 2012-11-28 19:49:58 * gavinandresen wonders where the wiki page on using -rpcssl went...
2034 2012-11-28 19:52:54 <gavinandresen> kjj: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Enabling_SSL_on_original_client_daemon : openssl s_client -connect localhost:8332 <-- is useful for debugging
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2037 2012-11-28 19:57:13 <kjj> gavinandresen: that page was linked in the thread, but it didn't help.
2038 2012-11-28 19:57:28 <kjj> and actually, I think his problem is not SSL related
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2053 2012-11-28 20:20:14 <jgarzik> chain-verf: validating mainnet chainfile /spare/tmp/chaindb/blocks.dat
2054 2012-11-28 20:20:14 <jgarzik> chain-verf: 207265 records validated
2055 2012-11-28 20:20:14 <jgarzik> 106.22user 1.73system 1:56.05elapsed 93PU (0avgtext+0avgdata 61360maxresident)k
2056 2012-11-28 20:20:17 <jgarzik> not too bad
2057 2012-11-28 20:20:45 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: how much is that verifying?
2058 2012-11-28 20:20:51 <jgarzik> 2 minutes, to read and validate 207k blocks, where "validate" excludes (a) script verification and (b) spent-ness
2059 2012-11-28 20:21:05 <sipa> so just checkblock() ?
2060 2012-11-28 20:21:11 <jgarzik> disk is running constantly, so clearly I/O bound time
2061 2012-11-28 20:21:20 <jgarzik> (as could be guessed by CPU not being 100%)
2062 2012-11-28 20:21:55 <jgarzik> sipa: local block checks + stitching the block into a coherent chain
2063 2012-11-28 20:21:56 <sipa> i suppose you can try comparing with -checkblocks=0 -checklevel=1
2064 2012-11-28 20:22:17 <jgarzik> i.e. calculating bnBestChainWork, nBestHeight and hashBestChain
2065 2012-11-28 20:22:33 <jgarzik> plus having all block headers in memory
2066 2012-11-28 20:22:48 <sipa> problem: test_bitcoin requires a block datadir
2067 2012-11-28 20:23:00 <sipa> apparently it always has
2068 2012-11-28 20:23:20 <sipa> it just appended to the block files before, but now it overwrites the initial part of the first file
2069 2012-11-28 20:24:39 PiZZaMaN2K is now known as PiZZaMaN2K|away
2070 2012-11-28 20:25:57 <sipa> imho it should just run in cwd and not in ~/.bitcoin
2071 2012-11-28 20:26:03 <sipa> but even then, that's dangerous
2072 2012-11-28 20:26:07 <sipa> oh, in /tmp
2073 2012-11-28 20:26:48 <gmaxwell> sipa: memory > /tmp > cwd > ~/.bitcoin
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2076 2012-11-28 20:31:04 <sipa> memory would indeed be perfect, but i'd rather not bother with that until we something like a global block data cache
2077 2012-11-28 20:32:58 <gavinandresen> test_bitcoin creating a datadir in $TMP and removing it on exit sounds good-enough-for-now to me.
2078 2012-11-28 20:33:06 <sipa> ok
2079 2012-11-28 20:33:18 <sipa> aha, boost has a unique_path function
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2082 2012-11-28 20:35:10 <andy> I'm having issues importing a sha256sum into bitcoind using the rpc command importprivkey. Are there certain restrictions on how the hash needs to be generated?
2083 2012-11-28 20:35:39 <gmaxwell> a private keys is _not_ a hash.
2084 2012-11-28 20:35:40 <sipa> importprivkey doesn't take a hash; it takes a private key in base58 format
2085 2012-11-28 20:36:17 <andy> oh I thought the address was the base58 portion.
2086 2012-11-28 20:36:42 <sipa> addresses are also encoded in base58, but that is unrelated
2087 2012-11-28 20:37:04 <andy> but I should be able to convert a sha256sum to base58 and import it then?
2088 2012-11-28 20:37:54 <sipa> with exceedingly hash probability (there are limits on the range of numbers that can be used as a private key, but they are very close to 0..2^256-1)
2089 2012-11-28 20:38:06 <sipa> but why do you want to generate a private key just by hashing something?
2090 2012-11-28 20:38:52 klaku has joined
2091 2012-11-28 20:39:02 <andy> I want to generate my bitcoin address so that I can always use the same process to recover it later if something happened to my wallet.dat file
2092 2012-11-28 20:39:35 <andy> kind of like the brain wallet idea
2093 2012-11-28 20:39:42 <sipa> that won't work, as bitcoin internally generates more addresses which are used as change
2094 2012-11-28 20:40:14 <andy> http://bitcoinmagazine.net/use-secure-passwords-for-your-self-generated-private-keys/ what about that?
2095 2012-11-28 20:40:29 <sipa> we'll likely add deterministic wallet support to bitcoin-qt somewhere in the future
2096 2012-11-28 20:40:30 <gmaxwell> andy: The brainwallet idea is a surprisingly dangerous one. Unless you use a strong random number generator to produce the key it will likely be far less random than you suspect.
2097 2012-11-28 20:40:33 nibor has joined
2098 2012-11-28 20:41:23 <gmaxwell> (and if you use a really random one, you might as well just save an exported privkeyâ though note sipa's change comments)
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2104 2012-11-28 20:55:08 <gavinandresen> RE: brainwallets: this relevant paper popped up on my Google Scholar alerts yesterday: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~agrao/paper/Effect_of_Grammar_on_Security_of_Long_Passwords.pdf
2105 2012-11-28 20:55:49 <bonks> Could someone write me a PHP script which opens an ssh tunnel and creates an html output containing an image from a url over the tunnel and make it auto refresh? Paying BTC
2106 2012-11-28 20:56:03 <bonks> I just want to be able to configure it and upload it to a webserver without installing extra modules
2107 2012-11-28 20:56:50 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, mostly irrelevant since brain wallets should be random dictionary words like dicewords
2108 2012-11-28 20:57:09 <sipa> "should" is the keyword here
2109 2012-11-28 20:57:22 <phantomcircuit> yes well infinite possibilities for fuck up
2110 2012-11-28 20:57:23 <phantomcircuit> s
2111 2012-11-28 20:58:14 <gavinandresen> I still think my "fail early" double-passphrase brainwallet scheme could work.
2112 2012-11-28 20:59:53 PiZZaMaN2K is now known as away!~PiZZaMaN2@unaffiliated/pizzaman2k|PiZZaMaN2K
2113 2012-11-28 21:01:31 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: It's an elaboration on a bad idea that improves the known failure mode but potentially adds new ones. The risk of loss/forgetting strongly demands a written backup and once you've done that a strongly random key is no biggy and removes all the complexity and concerns.
2114 2012-11-28 21:01:32 nameless1 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2115 2012-11-28 21:02:05 <sipa> what is the idea?
2116 2012-11-28 21:02:15 <gavinandresen> sipa: https://gist.github.com/3840286
2117 2012-11-28 21:02:24 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: yeah, you're probably right.
2118 2012-11-28 21:03:35 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: I just like the idea of paying attackers anonymously to figure out if real-user-generated passphrases are "secure enough"
2119 2012-11-28 21:04:10 <gmaxwell> I do generally like the idea of tripwire funds... it parallels something I'm currently doing: take advantage of computer criminals wanting to steal bitcoin to create a powerful IDS. Put a wallet on your basteion/firewall hosts... and if the coins move you've been robbed.
2120 2012-11-28 21:04:49 <gmaxwell> I think someone could create a nice little business around helping people deploy that solution. Selling bitcoins to parties for that purpose.. retaining second copies of private keys to recover lost coins... etc.
2121 2012-11-28 21:04:58 <gavinandresen> yes, I think a tripwire single-sig address with a BTC or two should be a standard feature of multi-device wallets, to detect if one device is compromised.
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2124 2012-11-28 21:08:16 <helo> gmaxwell: i like the variation of that to keep (ps3, bluray) release signing keys safe, where the recipient of the key leaves a security deposit parked at it
2125 2012-11-28 21:08:17 <ThomasV> funny proposal
2126 2012-11-28 21:09:20 <helo> so 1) the issuer can revoke the key if the bitcoin moves, assuming it has been compromised, and 2) the recipient has strong incentive to not leak the key
2127 2012-11-28 21:10:32 <ThomasV> gavinandresen: non-grammatical (purely random) sequences of words are more difficult to remember than grammatical phrases, but they are also more difficult to forget once you have made the effort to learn them
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2129 2012-11-28 21:11:17 <gavinandresen> ThomasV: really? I didn't know that.
2130 2012-11-28 21:11:31 <sipa> i'm not sure about that
2131 2012-11-28 21:11:37 <ThomasV> actually, things that are easy to remember are a bad choice
2132 2012-11-28 21:13:20 <gavinandresen> I wonder if a brainwallet-for-geeks would be secure... e.g. "take two random algorithms and apply them to your SS#, then SHA256 the result."
2133 2012-11-28 21:13:25 TD has joined
2134 2012-11-28 21:13:48 <helo> i prefer just grabbing a couple entries from 'pwgen -su' and sticking to a good recollection schedule
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2136 2012-11-28 21:13:53 <gavinandresen> Nah, not secure unless you're the only one doing that.
2137 2012-11-28 21:13:53 <sipa> gavinandresen: that limits you keyspace to number_of_ssn * num_algos^2
2138 2012-11-28 21:14:04 <helo> err 'pwgen -sy'
2139 2012-11-28 21:15:13 <ThomasV> sipa: an attacker would likely already know your ss#, so only num_algos^2
2140 2012-11-28 21:15:25 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: for that kind of stuff you could guess at the entopy of your scheme (or meta-scheme) and just add it. The problem is that it's very hard to estimate what the entropy of "take two random algorithms and apply them to your SS#, then SHA256 the result." is... a lot of stuff that sounds like "only I would ever think of this" is something that lots of people similar to you come up with.
2141 2012-11-28 21:15:54 <sipa> indeed, originality is extremely hard to quantify
2142 2012-11-28 21:15:57 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: yes, that's why I'm tempted to fund a bunch of brainwallets with a few bitcents each and see which ones get stolen.
2143 2012-11-28 21:16:34 <sipa> gavinandresen: i doubt attempting to break such attemps would only be viable once it's a popular practice to use brainwallets
2144 2012-11-28 21:16:44 <ThomasV> but your sentinels could be used as hints, to reduce the search space
2145 2012-11-28 21:17:00 <sipa> s/doubt/think/
2146 2012-11-28 21:17:02 <gmaxwell> it'll be interesting to see if the mining asic deployment makes wallet cracking more popular by creating a glut of big FPGAs that could do fast privkey rainbow table generation.
2147 2012-11-28 21:17:51 <sipa> 1. introduce asics 2. buy all cheap miner FPGAs. 3. address mine 4. profit!
2148 2012-11-28 21:17:56 <_dr> a rainbow table?
2149 2012-11-28 21:17:59 <Ymgve> not by far fast enough, unless you only consider deterministic wallets
2150 2012-11-28 21:18:06 <_dr> for 2^160 addresses?
2151 2012-11-28 21:18:12 <sipa> Ymgve: of course, that's what we're talking about
2152 2012-11-28 21:18:15 <sipa> brainwallets even
2153 2012-11-28 21:18:22 <gmaxwell> _dr: you're ignoring the discussion in here for the past 15 minutes...
2154 2012-11-28 21:18:37 nameless has joined
2155 2012-11-28 21:18:46 <_dr> true, i just came home from the baths :)
2156 2012-11-28 21:19:06 <helo> _dr: a rainbow table of likely brainwallet generators
2157 2012-11-28 21:20:27 <gmaxwell> if you only care to attack addresses that have spent before you could eliminate the outer sha256/ripemd160 from the search... but I expect it's 'free' on a FPGA of the size commonly used for mining...
2158 2012-11-28 21:20:40 <jgarzik> I wonder if openssl(1) util permits specifically of the number of sha256 iterations performed on input data
2159 2012-11-28 21:20:51 <jgarzik> *specification
2160 2012-11-28 21:21:04 * jgarzik has word substitution bugs in his brain
2161 2012-11-28 21:21:28 <gmaxwell> sha256 isn't a kdf by itself, I dunno if openssl exposes any of its kdf functions on the cli.
2162 2012-11-28 21:21:33 <sipa> jgarzik: all we are is advances pattern matchers anyway
2163 2012-11-28 21:21:41 <sipa> advanced!
2164 2012-11-28 21:21:45 <sipa> QED.
2165 2012-11-28 21:21:57 <gmaxwell> I read it correctly in any case.
2166 2012-11-28 21:22:07 <sipa> gmaxwell is clearly more advanced than i am
2167 2012-11-28 21:22:38 * jgarzik blatantly copies CCoin into picocoin, as bp_utxo
2168 2012-11-28 21:23:36 <sipa> it's CCoins! plural!
2169 2012-11-28 21:23:49 <jgarzik> ;p
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2182 2012-11-28 21:35:01 <nibor_> Just added a pull request #2050. Is the addition of Import Private Key menu item. Includes validation of key, unlocking of wallet if needed with passphrase and a progress bar as import takes few mins. Any comments welcome. Motivation - make it easier for people to import vanity address from my site bitcoinvanity.appspot.com.
2183 2012-11-28 21:35:34 pumpkin is now known as copumpkin
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2185 2012-11-28 21:35:38 <gmaxwell> nibor_: does your vanity site generate compressed keys?
2186 2012-11-28 21:35:51 Pasha is now known as Cory
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2188 2012-11-28 21:37:06 <nibor_> No - need to update that. Been busy doing this instead!
2189 2012-11-28 21:39:24 <nibor_> It is just a front end for vanitygen. I see you asked about compressed keys in that thread. So is going to be tricky fixing that.
2190 2012-11-28 21:40:09 <nibor_> As if learning QT is a step curve - learning OpenCL is a step curve with snow on it!
2191 2012-11-28 21:41:03 <gmaxwell> nibor_: IIRC no one even bothered responding to me. It's ashameâ the compressed keys result transactions which are quite a bit smaller. (thus lower fees, lower chain bloat, etc)
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2194 2012-11-28 21:43:56 <nibor_> Agreed - no question they are a good idea. Just need to update the opencl code in vanitygen. Will put it on my list of interesting projects.
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2199 2012-11-28 21:46:40 <nibor_> nice - just got email from bitcoinpulltester. Downloaded windows version and that works too! Key imported fine.
2200 2012-11-28 21:46:59 midnightmagic_ is now known as midnightmagic
2201 2012-11-28 21:47:53 <maaku> http://pastebin.com/YLmvMdCv
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2204 2012-11-28 21:51:40 <ciscoftw> why were some many transactions fees included into block 210k? https://blockchain.info/block-height/210000
2205 2012-11-28 21:52:00 <gavinandresen> ciscoftw: just for fun
2206 2012-11-28 21:52:04 <maaku> because people wanted to be in that block
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2214 2012-11-28 22:10:05 <sipa> BlueMatt: *how* old is the boost used by bitcoinpulltester?
2215 2012-11-28 22:11:10 <sipa> gavinandresen: seems that function to get the temp dir doesn't exist on boost filesystem v2... which is used at least by pulltester
2216 2012-11-28 22:15:43 <nibor_> luke-jr just commented on my pull request 2050 that he does not think importprivkey should be exposed to users. Thought this was a totally uncontroversial change! Other agree with him? If so I will start a thread on bitcointalk and canvases some support.
2217 2012-11-28 22:16:12 <Luke-Jr> nibor_: it's far too easy to be robbed if you use importprivkey
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2219 2012-11-28 22:17:50 <makomk> jgarzik: pah, your blatant copying of CCoins is nowhere near as blatant as my copying of CCoins ;-)
2220 2012-11-28 22:18:08 <sipa> makomk: where did you copy iy yo?
2221 2012-11-28 22:18:10 <sipa> *it to
2222 2012-11-28 22:18:28 BitDev has joined
2223 2012-11-28 22:18:39 <BitDev> hi all again
2224 2012-11-28 22:18:45 <BitDev> i have new question
2225 2012-11-28 22:18:55 <BitDev> how to calculate bits for new block?
2226 2012-11-28 22:18:57 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, expand on that
2227 2012-11-28 22:19:36 <makomk> sipa: Old project I've been developing off and on; basically a large chunk of the Satoshi client extracted as a standalone library.
2228 2012-11-28 22:20:53 <sipa> nibor_: i'm not sure... i feel key importing and vanity addresses isn't something we should encourage, but as it's a useful feature for powerusers, we probably can't avoid supporting it (i wrote the importprivkey RPC, and some refactorings to make it possible in the first place..)
2229 2012-11-28 22:20:59 <BitDev> sipa can you help me again?
2230 2012-11-28 22:21:06 PhantomSpark has quit (2!~kvirc@pool-71-190-231-20.nycmny.fios.verizon.net|Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2231 2012-11-28 22:21:34 <sipa> BitDev: turn nBits into a target, multiply/divide to correct for the difficulty correction, compress into nBits again
2232 2012-11-28 22:22:09 <BitDev> how to find out current difficulty?
2233 2012-11-28 22:22:19 <sipa> BitDev: decompress nBits of previous block
2234 2012-11-28 22:22:31 <nibor_> Maybe I force a prefix IMPORTED on them or something to make clear which are imported? (Obviously users can change if they want to).
2235 2012-11-28 22:22:44 <sipa> BitDev: and "difficulty" is something that doesn't exist at the protocol level, only nBits and target exist
2236 2012-11-28 22:22:57 <Ymgve> What if instead of key import you create something that takes all coins existing on that key and send them to a new address?
2237 2012-11-28 22:23:08 <BitDev> yes, but its must be recalculated every 2016 blocks
2238 2012-11-28 22:23:09 <Ymgve> Because I assume that's what most people asking for import of keys want
2239 2012-11-28 22:23:26 <sipa> BitDev: yes, and at that point you decompress nBits, correct, and recompress
2240 2012-11-28 22:23:47 <BitDev> how to decompress bits right way?
2241 2012-11-28 22:23:55 <sipa> BitDev: use the source, luke
2242 2012-11-28 22:23:58 <nibor_> Ymgve: purpose was mainly for vanity addresses - so you need to keep the address obviously..
2243 2012-11-28 22:24:24 <BitDev> can you tell me in what file this part is?
2244 2012-11-28 22:24:29 <Ymgve> oh, that's a purpose too yeah
2245 2012-11-28 22:25:19 <sipa> BitDev: GetNextWorkRequired in main.cpp
2246 2012-11-28 22:25:28 <BitDev> sipa thnx again!
2247 2012-11-28 22:26:00 <nibor_> Other purpose is for those coins casascius sells with a private key in them: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=41892.0
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2252 2012-11-28 22:31:20 <nibor_> So consensus on 2050 seems to be one for (me!) one against (luke-jr) one "guess we will have to at some point" (sipa) and no one else cares!
2253 2012-11-28 22:31:56 <sipa> nibor_: don't expect consensus within minutes
2254 2012-11-28 22:32:51 <ciscoftw> is the 'getrawmempool' call returning the transactions that i'm trying to including into my block creation?
2255 2012-11-28 22:33:02 <sipa> ciscoftw: no
2256 2012-11-28 22:33:12 <nibor_> OK - will leave for few days and then follow up. Thanks all for input.
2257 2012-11-28 22:33:14 <sipa> it's just the raw contents of the memory pool
2258 2012-11-28 22:33:36 <sipa> ciscoftw: for example, it doesn't take fees or priority calculations into account
2259 2012-11-28 22:33:51 <sipa> ciscoftw: use getblocktemplate if you want to see what would go into a new block
2260 2012-11-28 22:33:52 <andrew12-> does artforz still come around these parts?
2261 2012-11-28 22:34:05 <sipa> ;;lastseen ArtForz
2262 2012-11-28 22:34:06 <gribble> Error: "lastseen" is not a valid command.
2263 2012-11-28 22:34:10 <sipa> ;;seen ArtForz
2264 2012-11-28 22:34:10 <gribble> ArtForz was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 year, 24 weeks, 0 days, 0 hours, 5 minutes, and 14 seconds ago: <ArtForz> eternal beta. hah, satoshi is secretly a google employee!
2265 2012-11-28 22:34:20 <ciscoftw> how can i view transaction that are broadcast to the network, but havent been included into a block yet? like how blockchain explorer show real time trans flying by
2266 2012-11-28 22:34:27 <ciscoftw> thanks too sipa
2267 2012-11-28 22:34:37 <sipa> ciscoftw: getrawtransaction <txid>
2268 2012-11-28 22:34:50 <andrew12-> sipa: you can actually do that for any tx now? wow, i really missed a lot
2269 2012-11-28 22:35:17 <andrew12-> before it was just your txs that you could do getrawtransaction on
2270 2012-11-28 22:35:37 <sipa> gettransaction has always just been for wallet transactions
2271 2012-11-28 22:35:41 <andrew12-> that's the one
2272 2012-11-28 22:35:53 <sipa> and getrawtransaction has always (since 0.7.0) been for any transaction
2273 2012-11-28 22:37:05 <andrew12-> took a while to get in huh? is there getblock now too?
2274 2012-11-28 22:37:14 <sipa> yes
2275 2012-11-28 22:37:21 <sipa> since 0.6 iirc
2276 2012-11-28 22:37:46 <andrew12-> blockexplorer.com still says "It uses the getblock patch by jgarzik" :P
2277 2012-11-28 22:37:59 <sipa> it does, i think
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2282 2012-11-28 22:43:52 <gmaxwell> nibor_: I feel vaguely negative about it, but not enough to comment right now. I think ultimately it should need a warning telling people not to use websites that generate keys. (I didn't want to suggest that before because I didn't want insult you. :( )
2283 2012-11-28 22:44:57 <BlueMatt> sipa: very, but it also very much on purpose uses the same one as is used in gitian
2284 2012-11-28 22:45:10 <sipa> BlueMatt: bah :(
2285 2012-11-28 22:45:23 <BlueMatt> 1.40 looks like
2286 2012-11-28 22:45:25 <sipa> (not bah that it uses the same as gitian, obviously - just bah that it's old)
2287 2012-11-28 22:45:29 Mqrius has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2288 2012-11-28 22:45:59 <BlueMatt> when we switch to remove bdb entirely we can for the most part freely upgrade gitian whenever we want to the latest and greatest
2289 2012-11-28 22:46:09 <nibor_> gmaxwell - agreed. Technically my site does not calc the private key (that is done through addition of 2 keys in javascript)
2290 2012-11-28 22:46:24 <Luke-Jr> sipa: getrawtransaction works for any txn in master?
2291 2012-11-28 22:46:29 <sipa> Luke-Jr: no
2292 2012-11-28 22:46:41 <sipa> Luke-Jr: only mempool + unspent chain txn
2293 2012-11-28 22:46:57 <nibor_> but I could easily add one line of javascript and send the key back to myself. And no one would notice (other than someon who read the source).
2294 2012-11-28 22:47:06 <sipa> nibor_: that's the problem
2295 2012-11-28 22:47:10 mikehard3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2296 2012-11-28 22:47:38 <nibor_> That was why I also submitted a patch to bitaddress.org so you can do the private key addition totally offline.
2297 2012-11-28 22:47:50 <nibor_> But who can be bothered to do that?!?
2298 2012-11-28 22:48:41 <Luke-Jr> nibor_: how would that work? it's still a website
2299 2012-11-28 22:48:46 <sipa> how about doing the addition in the wallet software? (note: i'd probably consider that feature bloat, but it would be safe...)
2300 2012-11-28 22:48:55 freewil has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2301 2012-11-28 22:49:34 <Luke-Jr> nibor_: what are you trying to accomplish?
2302 2012-11-28 22:49:40 <nibor_> sipa - interesting idea! There other uses for this too...
2303 2012-11-28 22:49:50 <midnightmagic> nibor_: Even if it's not exposed via the help menu to users, please consider including it somehow via a hidden rpc command or something. I view the functionality as crucial for using things like vanitygen, or merging wallets. I *miss* *a* *lot* the full sipa dumpwallet/import stuff, and currently have about 12 wallets sitting in various places which I haven't yet had the opportunity to merge..
2304 2012-11-28 22:50:24 WeLoveCP is now known as Inductrance
2305 2012-11-28 22:50:26 <Luke-Jr> midnightmagic: it's been in RPC for a while, easily accessible via Debug Console
2306 2012-11-28 22:50:44 <nibor_> midnightmagic: see https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/How_to_import_private_keys_v7%2B
2307 2012-11-28 22:50:56 Gladamas_ is now known as Gladamas
2308 2012-11-28 22:51:53 <sipa> pfff... so... add a GetTempDir to util.cpp, overridden for Windows?
2309 2012-11-28 22:51:55 freewil has joined
2310 2012-11-28 22:52:05 <midnightmagic> I can do it myself. I would just like it to be supported and easy for me to do multi-import, then commit (which triggers a rescan) to a live bitcoind.
2311 2012-11-28 22:52:29 <sipa> midnightmagic: if i find the time, i'll try to get dumpwallet/importwallet into 0.8
2312 2012-11-28 22:52:42 <sipa> but i consider deterministic wallets more important
2313 2012-11-28 22:52:45 <midnightmagic> :-)
2314 2012-11-28 22:52:58 <sipa> and getting ultraprune finished
2315 2012-11-28 22:53:12 <sipa> and getting the IBD mechanism sane
2316 2012-11-28 22:53:16 <midnightmagic> hrm.. maybe I should just read what it is exactly he's done first before requesting it.
2317 2012-11-28 22:53:50 <Luke-Jr> nibor_: what are you trying to accomplish?
2318 2012-11-28 22:53:53 <sipa> and getting rid of BDB
2319 2012-11-28 22:54:04 ovidiusoft has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2320 2012-11-28 22:54:07 Cusipzzz_ is now known as Cusipzzz
2321 2012-11-28 22:54:08 <sipa> and implementing headers-first mode
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2324 2012-11-28 22:54:19 <sipa> and doing parallel signature verification
2325 2012-11-28 22:54:38 <nibor_> Luke-Jr: make it easier for users of bitcoinvanity.appspot.com import addresses.
2326 2012-11-28 22:55:25 <Luke-Jr> nibor_: ok, that's exactly why we DON'T want it easily accessible
2327 2012-11-28 22:55:39 <Luke-Jr> since it's basically 99% security compromise
2328 2012-11-28 22:56:00 <sipa> well, i really don't like that purpose... but maybe i can accept the means
2329 2012-11-28 22:56:49 <Ymgve> What is the security compromise there?
2330 2012-11-28 22:57:02 <helo> they have your private key
2331 2012-11-28 22:57:02 <sipa> the fact that you copy a private key from a website
2332 2012-11-28 22:57:13 <Luke-Jr> Ymgve: it's a website, so it could easily share your priv key with the person running it
2333 2012-11-28 22:57:25 <Ymgve> of course
2334 2012-11-28 22:57:27 <sipa> well, presumably they don't - but far from everyone is going to check whether they didn't quickly change it (maybe even just for you) to do know it
2335 2012-11-28 22:57:28 <Luke-Jr> Ymgve: it also encourages reuse of the same priv key
2336 2012-11-28 22:57:53 <Ymgve> I thought you meant some inherent insecurity regarding vanity addrs or key import
2337 2012-11-28 22:57:58 <nibor_> Unless you generate the key on bitaddress.org. This you can use off-line. i.e. with your network cable unplugged.
2338 2012-11-28 22:58:03 <Luke-Jr> Ymgve: that too
2339 2012-11-28 22:58:19 <Luke-Jr> Ymgve: key import of a possibly leaked priv key means your balance might not really be yours
2340 2012-11-28 22:58:26 <sipa> nibor_: same thing; yes, you can, but will anyone?
2341 2012-11-28 22:58:30 someone42 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2342 2012-11-28 22:58:39 <sipa> those who really care will just use local software instead of a website
2343 2012-11-28 22:58:41 <Luke-Jr> nibor_: nobody is going to unplug their network cable to ensure it's secure
2344 2012-11-28 22:59:00 <nibor_> sipa: does anyone encrypt their wallet? :)
2345 2012-11-28 22:59:23 <sipa> and yet another (fixable) problem: bitcoin-qt can currently not really deal with keys that may be spent from different places
2346 2012-11-28 22:59:25 <Luke-Jr> also, it's quite possible the JS intentionally makes weak keys the operator knows how to bruteforce
2347 2012-11-28 22:59:34 <sipa> it tries to deal with it, but you can easily corrupt your wallet too
2348 2012-11-28 22:59:48 <Luke-Jr> nibor_: this has nothing to do with wallet encryption
2349 2012-11-28 22:59:58 <sipa> that's something i consider a bug, though
2350 2012-11-28 23:00:39 <nibor_> I know - I just meant that there are features that enhance security but are unsued by some users because they are slightly more hassle.
2351 2012-11-28 23:00:40 <helo> if bitcoinvanity has used their GPU farm to create a particular vanity address for you, how can they not have the private key? or is it just javascript?
2352 2012-11-28 23:01:00 <Luke-Jr> nibor_: wallet encryption only increases security against your little brother.
2353 2012-11-28 23:01:21 <sipa> helo: EC split key
2354 2012-11-28 23:02:28 <helo> oh... so it's generating a chain as with hd wallets?
2355 2012-11-28 23:02:33 <sipa> no
2356 2012-11-28 23:02:42 <helo> bah
2357 2012-11-28 23:02:52 <Luke-Jr> helo: some EC math magic
2358 2012-11-28 23:03:16 <sipa> you give them your public key K1, they find a k2 such that K1+K2 results in a nice address, and give you the private key corresponding to K1
2359 2012-11-28 23:03:19 <sipa> eh
2360 2012-11-28 23:03:25 <sipa> k2
2361 2012-11-28 23:03:37 <sipa> then you do k1+k2 and import that as a private key
2362 2012-11-28 23:04:13 <helo> i need to learn EC math so this fits in my head better
2363 2012-11-28 23:04:32 <nibor_> helo: https://bitcoinvanity.appspot.com/sp/help try it - feels like magic...
2364 2012-11-28 23:04:42 <nibor_> I am off now... thanks..
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2367 2012-11-28 23:06:26 PiZZaMaN2K is now known as PiZZaMaN2K|away
2368 2012-11-28 23:09:45 <BlueMatt> sipa: heh, sounds like the todo of most everyone around here when it comes to bitcoin projects...
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2371 2012-11-28 23:11:09 * BlueMatt wishes distros would simply stop shipping md5sum binaries unless you manually installed them to encourage people to STOP FUCKING USING MD5
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2373 2012-11-28 23:13:25 <darsie> I sent a tx while my client is still syncing the block chain. There's 80 blocks left, and it already sent the tx. Looks like had I already spent all the btc from that wallet, it would attempt a double spend.
2374 2012-11-28 23:14:02 <helo> darsie: all of your peers probably dropped it as soon as you sent it, right?
2375 2012-11-28 23:14:25 <darsie> like, backing up wallet.dat and blockchain db, spending everything, restoring, and then spend again.
2376 2012-11-28 23:14:51 <darsie> helo: I haven't actually done that.
2377 2012-11-28 23:15:24 <helo> yeah, i'm pretty sure all of your synched peers would immediately know the inputs were already spent, and just discard the latter tx
2378 2012-11-28 23:15:52 <darsie> yup, if the older tx had been on the net for a while.
2379 2012-11-28 23:16:15 <Luke-Jr> sipa: bitcoind: main.cpp:1457: bool CBlock::DisconnectBlock(CBlockIndex*, CCoinsViewCache&): Assertion `blockUndo.vtxundo.size() + 1 == vtx.size()' failed.
2380 2012-11-28 23:16:22 <darsie> with confirmations, probably.
2381 2012-11-28 23:16:24 <Luke-Jr> still get this on test-free -reindex
2382 2012-11-28 23:17:01 andy has quit (Quit: leaving)
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2385 2012-11-28 23:17:25 <helo> i assume your client would discard the transactions when it sees the inputs spent in blocks, but i'm not sure how that would work with append-only wallet format...
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2387 2012-11-28 23:18:00 <darsie> I mean, I appreciate it doesn't wait until the sync is complete, but it allows fraud if someone doesn't wait for at least one confirmation.
2388 2012-11-28 23:18:30 <helo> it allows you to deceive yourself, but not really anyone else :)
2389 2012-11-28 23:20:17 <darsie> But well, I guess the same fraud would be possible with two instances of up to date clients. Or some modified/custom client.
2390 2012-11-28 23:21:40 <darsie> Hmm, but what does the network to, if double spends are sent at the same time? Guess blockchain.info would display both as unconfirmed and clients might display them as incoming.
2391 2012-11-28 23:23:02 <darsie> If this is off topic here, i can take it to #bitcoin.
2392 2012-11-28 23:24:52 <sipa> darsie: nodes that see v1 first will consider v1 valid; nodes that see v2 first will consider v2 valid
2393 2012-11-28 23:25:38 <darsie> ok
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2409 2012-11-28 23:52:46 darsie has left ("Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is")
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