1 2012-12-01 00:10:50 agricocb has joined
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  3 2012-12-01 00:14:19 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #165: FAILURE in 25 sec: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/165/
  4 2012-12-01 00:24:14 random_cat has joined
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  6 2012-12-01 00:30:43 <BlueMattBot> Yippie, build fixed!
  7 2012-12-01 00:30:43 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #166: FIXED in 11 min: http://jenkins.bluematt.me/job/Bitcoin/166/
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 11 2012-12-01 00:42:23 <sipa> jgarzik: without script verif at all, 16 minutes for 210000 blocks
 12 2012-12-01 00:42:54 <sipa> sorry, 13
 13 2012-12-01 00:43:57 <sipa> which means that script verif does 824 tx/s
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 16 2012-12-01 00:48:28 <jgarzik> sipa: turn off script verf, and I'm definitely disk-bound
 17 2012-12-01 00:48:35 <jgarzik> chain-verf: 210041 records validated
 18 2012-12-01 00:48:35 <jgarzik> 138.76user 2.20system 2:23.34elapsed 98% CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 797732maxresident)k
 19 2012-12-01 00:48:57 <jgarzik> of course, I'm missing a few checks that require checking history (difficulty, median time)
 20 2012-12-01 00:49:11 <jgarzik> that _does_ build and check UTXO fully
 21 2012-12-01 00:50:56 * jgarzik is rather proud of his hash table setup.  Should be more efficient than C++'s map
 22 2012-12-01 00:51:17 <jgarzik> of course, bitcoind could switch to unordered_map w/ custom hash function, to fix
 23 2012-12-01 00:51:53 <jgarzik> when the key of the hash table is (hash) or (hash,n), I simply pick a dword in the middle of the hash
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 28 2012-12-01 00:58:31 <sipa> jgarzik: yeah, std::map is not particularly fast
 29 2012-12-01 00:58:56 <sipa> but it has nice guarantees (like objects not moving)
 30 2012-12-01 00:59:32 <sipa> jgarzik: also, i probably spent quite some time packing and unpacking utxo data, and writing it to disk
 31 2012-12-01 00:59:57 <sipa> the cache should be large enough to never need to wait for reading from disk, but it is still written
 32 2012-12-01 01:01:04 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
 33 2012-12-01 01:01:05 <sipa> meh, i'm sick of the slowness after >193k ... will try a very simply intra-block parallel script check tomorrow
 34 2012-12-01 01:01:30 Pucilowski has joined
 35 2012-12-01 01:02:38 <jgarzik> sipa: ditto ;p
 36 2012-12-01 01:03:12 <jgarzik> yeah, picocoin's UTXO is a memory-friendly, never-disk operation
 37 2012-12-01 01:03:24 <jgarzik> so cheaper, there
 38 2012-12-01 01:03:30 <sipa> i thought picocoin was an SPV client?
 39 2012-12-01 01:03:37 <sipa> why does it need an UTXO?
 40 2012-12-01 01:04:00 <sipa> (not that I think it's a bad idea to have it, mind you)
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 43 2012-12-01 01:08:41 <gmaxwell> sipa: because picocoin's library has more than a SPV node.
 44 2012-12-01 01:08:52 <gmaxwell> well more code at least, not completed software.
 45 2012-12-01 01:09:03 <sipa> iirc that was liccoin, not picocoin :P
 46 2012-12-01 01:09:06 <sipa> +b
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 54 2012-12-01 01:29:27 <Pucilowski> Can anyone point me to some resources that talk about the theory on writing services that handle bitcoins?
 55 2012-12-01 01:31:07 <stamit> he's still talking here and i still haven't gotten my money
 56 2012-12-01 01:31:43 <gmaxwell> sipa: 'liccoin'  ... Did you just give Jeff a name for his library? lick coin? hah
 57 2012-12-01 01:32:41 zveda has joined
 58 2012-12-01 01:32:46 <sipa> how about libjablic?
 59 2012-12-01 01:32:50 <zveda> my bitcoin is all broken..
 60 2012-12-01 01:32:55 <zveda> after every restart I get: Error initializing database environment
 61 2012-12-01 01:33:04 <zveda> and asking me to delete everything
 62 2012-12-01 01:33:05 <sipa> jeff's awesome bitcoin library in C
 63 2012-12-01 01:33:20 <stamit> better things to do than bicker, but i should be getting paid eventually
 64 2012-12-01 01:33:33 <zveda> even though I only just synced everything
 65 2012-12-01 01:34:16 <gmaxwell> zveda: did you copy around any files or move any directories?
 66 2012-12-01 01:34:23 <zveda> nope
 67 2012-12-01 01:34:26 <zveda> just restarted
 68 2012-12-01 01:34:30 <zveda> second time this happens
 69 2012-12-01 01:34:34 <sipa> with bitcoin running?
 70 2012-12-01 01:34:38 <zveda> yeah
 71 2012-12-01 01:34:44 <sipa> while syncing?
 72 2012-12-01 01:34:46 <zveda> no
 73 2012-12-01 01:34:49 <zveda> it was fully synced
 74 2012-12-01 01:34:55 <sipa> hmm, shouldn't happen
 75 2012-12-01 01:35:14 <sipa> (even if it was syncing... but that's harder)
 76 2012-12-01 01:35:33 <zveda> well just happened twice in a row
 77 2012-12-01 01:35:37 <zveda> do i have to sync all over again
 78 2012-12-01 01:35:54 <zveda> i think it will just break again.. something really wrong
 79 2012-12-01 01:35:58 <zveda> it's a new hdd too
 80 2012-12-01 01:36:19 <sipa> well, i really hope these issues will be gone in 0.8
 81 2012-12-01 01:37:17 <gmaxwell> zveda: can you put up links to your debug.log and db.log?
 82 2012-12-01 01:37:38 <zveda> ok 1 min
 83 2012-12-01 01:40:04 <zveda> https://spideroak.com/browse/share/Ilia_Zved/Ilia_share_kbadfb2
 84 2012-12-01 01:40:34 <zveda> o wait
 85 2012-12-01 01:40:36 <zveda> it hasnt sycned yet
 86 2012-12-01 01:41:24 <zveda> ok synced now
 87 2012-12-01 01:43:04 <gmaxwell> uhh
 88 2012-12-01 01:43:05 <gmaxwell> ************************
 89 2012-12-01 01:43:05 <gmaxwell> EXCEPTION: N5boost11filesystem316filesystem_errorE
 90 2012-12-01 01:43:06 <gmaxwell> boost::filesystem::create_directory: No such file or directory: "/home/ilia/.bitcoin/database"
 91 2012-12-01 01:43:09 <gmaxwell> bitcoin in ThreadMessageHandler()
 92 2012-12-01 01:43:14 <gmaxwell> Did you delete /home/ilia/.bitcoin/database ?
 93 2012-12-01 01:43:50 <zveda> no
 94 2012-12-01 01:44:01 <zveda> its there
 95 2012-12-01 01:44:06 <gmaxwell> Unacceptable log file /home/ilia/.bitcoin/database/log.0000000801: unsupported log version 16
 96 2012-12-01 01:44:09 <gmaxwell> Invalid log file: log.0000000801: Invalid argument
 97 2012-12-01 01:44:12 <gmaxwell> PANIC: Invalid argument
 98 2012-12-01 01:44:14 <gmaxwell> process-private: unable to find environment
 99 2012-12-01 01:44:15 <zveda> database dir is 21mb
100 2012-12-01 01:44:27 <gmaxwell> Have you downloaded a bitcoin database from someone else or updated bitcoin versions?
101 2012-12-01 01:44:48 <zveda> well i used the bootstrap.dat
102 2012-12-01 01:44:51 <zveda> but it worked fine
103 2012-12-01 01:44:56 <zveda> it's not bootstrat.dat.old
104 2012-12-01 01:45:04 <zveda> bootstrap
105 2012-12-01 01:45:10 <zveda> and it was all well synced and everything
106 2012-12-01 01:45:12 <zveda> then i restarted
107 2012-12-01 01:45:14 <zveda> then I get this error
108 2012-12-01 01:45:25 <zveda> r/not/now
109 2012-12-01 01:45:48 <gmaxwell> Where did you get the version of bitcoin you're running?
110 2012-12-01 01:47:39 <zveda> from the official site
111 2012-12-01 01:47:52 <gmaxwell> Did you previously run a version from someplace else?
112 2012-12-01 01:47:53 <zveda> I think
113 2012-12-01 01:47:57 <zveda> no
114 2012-12-01 01:48:01 <zveda> always ran the official one
115 2012-12-01 01:48:10 <zveda> should i go reinstall ?
116 2012-12-01 01:48:20 <zveda> I also run armory
117 2012-12-01 01:48:39 <gmaxwell> But you ran prior versions of the official one?
118 2012-12-01 01:48:50 <zveda> yeah
119 2012-12-01 01:49:01 <gmaxwell> Do you have any funds in that wallet?
120 2012-12-01 01:49:07 <zveda> yes
121 2012-12-01 01:49:20 <zveda> oh you mean older versions concurrently - then no
122 2012-12-01 01:49:27 <gmaxwell> No, just previously.
123 2012-12-01 01:49:28 <zveda> I used to run an older version.. then update came out so updated
124 2012-12-01 01:49:46 <gmaxwell> You have database log files which are the wrong version, which means you upgraded at some point while not cleanly shut down— I think.
125 2012-12-01 01:50:36 <sipa> there should always be one log file left, unless you run with -detachdb
126 2012-12-01 01:50:36 <gmaxwell> I'd suggest backing up the whole directory. Then deleting everything there, including the database subdirectory, except bootstrap.dat and wallet.dat.. and starting again. And hopefully that should fix you up.
127 2012-12-01 01:50:53 <zveda> thats exactly what I did
128 2012-12-01 01:50:54 <sipa> but different versions of the official binaries should use exactly the same bdb
129 2012-12-01 01:50:55 <zveda> last night
130 2012-12-01 01:50:56 <zveda> and it worked
131 2012-12-01 01:50:59 <zveda> now I get the same error
132 2012-12-01 01:51:18 <gmaxwell> sipa: he might have had the ppa version, I'm not sure if we can figure that out.
133 2012-12-01 01:51:31 <gmaxwell> zveda: how exactly? you deleted the database directory too?
134 2012-12-01 01:51:38 <zveda> yes
135 2012-12-01 01:51:44 <zveda> I deleted everything except bootstrap and wallet.dat
136 2012-12-01 01:52:07 <zveda> oh hm
137 2012-12-01 01:52:09 <zveda> it seems I am using
138 2012-12-01 01:52:17 <zveda> the ppa maintained by Jonas Smedegaard
139 2012-12-01 01:52:21 <gmaxwell> 0_o
140 2012-12-01 01:52:21 <zveda> instead of matt corrallo
141 2012-12-01 01:52:29 <gmaxwell> who the @#$@ is "Jonas Smedegaard"?
142 2012-12-01 01:52:35 <zveda> hmm forgot
143 2012-12-01 01:52:38 <zveda> I did this a while ago
144 2012-12-01 01:52:57 <zveda> http://packages.qa.debian.org/b/bitcoin.html
145 2012-12-01 01:53:00 <zveda> maybe this
146 2012-12-01 01:54:09 <zveda> ok anyway I will reinstall the proper version and do what you said.. thanks
147 2012-12-01 01:54:52 <sipa> that will likely still fail, if the last binary you succesfully used wasn't running with -detachdb
148 2012-12-01 01:55:25 <gmaxwell> sipa: detatchdb is irrelevent with the "delete everything" step.
149 2012-12-01 01:55:47 <sipa> right, sure
150 2012-12-01 01:55:55 <sipa> if he's doing that again, it doesn't matter
151 2012-12-01 01:56:06 <sipa> afk
152 2012-12-01 02:05:33 <zveda> woot i installed the proper bitcoin adn it just started up.. didnt even have to delete anything
153 2012-12-01 02:05:44 <sipa> oh, good
154 2012-12-01 02:12:06 eoss has joined
155 2012-12-01 02:12:46 <gmaxwell> thats ... interesting.
156 2012-12-01 02:12:50 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
157 2012-12-01 02:12:59 <gmaxwell> zveda: can you find wherever you got the broken one and ask them to take it down?
158 2012-12-01 02:13:22 <zveda> ok will do
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160 2012-12-01 02:26:24 <jgarzik> sipa: yah, in order to fully prove the software, libccoin will do SPV validation or full validation.  That enables the test suite to test full validation, which in turn proves a lot of the code... that would otherwise be unproven in an SPV situation.
161 2012-12-01 02:26:58 <jgarzik> sipa: picocoin will just be a command line SPV client
162 2012-12-01 02:27:13 <jgarzik> though I am tempted to write a small full-node for gmaxwell
163 2012-12-01 02:27:48 <jgarzik> fbrd, Fast Block Relay Daemon
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170 2012-12-01 02:51:11 <stamit> you know, i had never heard anything about our gmaxwell until he banned me from -otc
171 2012-12-01 02:54:19 <stamit> everybody on the forum as i see, likes to say that "nobody owns bitcoin", but apparently some people do
172 2012-12-01 02:54:28 <Luke-Jr> I own bitcoins.
173 2012-12-01 02:57:00 <liori> i like how just knowing few numbers with peculiar properties means owning something…
174 2012-12-01 02:58:41 <stamit> you couldn't own those numbers on paper. you have to have a computer
175 2012-12-01 03:11:54 freakazoid has joined
176 2012-12-01 03:12:46 <MC-Eeepc> people print paper wallets all the time
177 2012-12-01 03:13:11 <MC-Eeepc> when greg bans you from the bitcoin netowrk then you can complain
178 2012-12-01 03:13:36 <Luke-Jr> please, don't let stamit complain no matter what greg does :/
179 2012-12-01 03:24:21 <stamit> it wouldn't be a peer-to-peer network in that case
180 2012-12-01 03:25:45 <stamit> at some point i noticed gribble not giving me voice on -otc, even though i had >1 rating
181 2012-12-01 03:27:34 <stamit> maybe it was because of the "the extremely high-rated people can do that" rule
182 2012-12-01 03:29:48 <stamit> maybe the next version of the "official" bitcoin will not accept money from stamit's addresses
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238 2012-12-01 07:05:50 <greenfox> Hi
239 2012-12-01 07:07:31 <greenfox> I'm getting "PROOF OF WORK RESULT: false (booooo)" and when I look at my statistics at the mining pool there are these "H-not-zero" errors
240 2012-12-01 07:07:43 <greenfox> is there somethiong going wrong?
241 2012-12-01 07:11:09 <D34TH> which pool
242 2012-12-01 07:11:25 <greenfox> hhtt.1209k.com
243 2012-12-01 07:11:57 <D34TH> mailto:fireduck@gmail.com
244 2012-12-01 07:13:13 <greenfox> I changed the pool a view day ago, because I didn't earn anything at the other pool
245 2012-12-01 07:13:58 wizkid057 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
246 2012-12-01 07:14:13 <greenfox> I changed the pool a few days ago...
247 2012-12-01 07:14:33 D34TH has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
248 2012-12-01 07:16:09 wizkid057 has joined
249 2012-12-01 07:17:59 <greenfox> How can I test if cpuminer is working correct for my setup?
250 2012-12-01 07:26:39 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
251 2012-12-01 07:30:47 <denisx> greenfox: cpuminer? really?
252 2012-12-01 07:30:57 <greenfox> yes
253 2012-12-01 07:33:09 <denisx> greenfox: for testing or for real?
254 2012-12-01 07:33:20 <denisx> btw, you should ask that in bitcoin-mining
255 2012-12-01 07:39:46 <greenfox> I hoped for real
256 2012-12-01 07:40:05 <Graet> litecoin or bitcoin?
257 2012-12-01 07:40:28 <Graet> oh nm
258 2012-12-01 07:42:45 <greenfox> what is litecoin?
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266 2012-12-01 08:00:52 <jgarzik> Project idea for someone:  create a webpage, that accepts an IP address.  Visitors enter an IP address, and the webpage will test that IP, and verify that it is an accessible bitcoin P2P node.
267 2012-12-01 08:01:06 <jgarzik> Or maybe an IP address or onion address.
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276 2012-12-01 08:28:32 <greenfox> as far as i understand tor, an onion address does not have an ip
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278 2012-12-01 08:31:22 <greenfox> jgarzik, may i query you?
279 2012-12-01 08:31:38 <jgarzik> greenfox: sure
280 2012-12-01 08:32:03 <jgarzik> greenfox: and that is correct, an onion address is not an IP address.  they are two different things.
281 2012-12-01 08:32:19 <jgarzik> greenfox: you need to be connected to the tor network to access an onion address.
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305 2012-12-01 10:52:46 <Dotevo> hi :-) I need some coins for testnet. Is it possible to get those easily?
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370 2012-12-01 15:33:50 <Luke-Jr> greenfox: CPU mining hasn't been practical for years
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375 2012-12-01 16:10:02 <sipa> Luke-Jr: do you have a blockchain datafile lying around with many reorgs?
376 2012-12-01 16:10:05 <sipa> (or someone else)
377 2012-12-01 16:10:22 <sipa> eu1.bitcoincharts.com/blockchain now links to bootstrap.dat only
378 2012-12-01 16:11:27 <sipa> your blk00000.dat.xz had some, i'll download that again
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391 2012-12-01 16:26:05 <abrkn> what is the risk of crediting transactions with minconf 0, like i assume SA does?
392 2012-12-01 16:26:14 <abrkn> SD*
393 2012-12-01 16:26:48 <sipa> they have a relatively high chance of being reverted (making you a victim of a double-spend attack)
394 2012-12-01 16:27:05 <abrkn> sipa: how does sd handle that?
395 2012-12-01 16:27:09 <sipa> for SD this is not really a problem as they use your incoming transaction to pay you back
396 2012-12-01 16:27:21 <sipa> so if you do revert the transaction, so will the payout
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398 2012-12-01 16:30:53 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: SD doesn't care, since it's a DDoS and doesn't care what happens to the money :p
399 2012-12-01 16:30:54 <abrkn> on a double spend, i send out two different transactions from the same adress but to different recipients so that only one can be included in the chain?
400 2012-12-01 16:31:09 <Luke-Jr> sipa: = revert it when you lose
401 2012-12-01 16:31:36 <sipa> Luke-Jr: yes, i don't say this is perfect, but it makes it risk-free *for them*
402 2012-12-01 16:31:52 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: there is no "from the same address"; Bitcoin doesn't work with addresses at that level, it works with coins
403 2012-12-01 16:32:00 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: so it's like giving two people the same quarter
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405 2012-12-01 16:33:03 <sipa> also, please stop calling it a DDoS - i don't like their mechanism, but it's far from a deliberate attempt to break the system
406 2012-12-01 16:33:34 <Luke-Jr> sipa: when they won't stop after it's proven to be a problem, it becomes deliberate.
407 2012-12-01 16:34:04 <abrkn> Luke-Jr: because when you send a transaction, the inputs are always entirely sent, but you can make an output that you keep?
408 2012-12-01 16:34:48 <sipa> Luke-Jr: not seeing the damage they cause (assuming that's a fact) doesn't make it a deliberate attack
409 2012-12-01 16:35:53 <abrkn> i dont understand what's meant by reverting a transaction?
410 2012-12-01 16:36:10 <Luke-Jr> sipa: I personally explained to him how it is causing damage. He continues to operate it. That's deliberate attacking.
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412 2012-12-01 16:37:54 <sipa> Luke-Jr: i disagree completely; you make it sound like their intent is breaking the system
413 2012-12-01 16:38:08 <Luke-Jr> if it wasn't, they wouldn't be doing it.
414 2012-12-01 16:38:22 <sipa> come on please; their intent is making money
415 2012-12-01 16:38:34 <Luke-Jr> they could do that without DDoSing the system
416 2012-12-01 16:38:41 <sipa> i have never claimed otherwise
417 2012-12-01 16:38:54 <abrkn> i keep seeing people play sd, wtf is up with that
418 2012-12-01 16:38:55 <sipa> but that still doesn't make it their intent to break the system
419 2012-12-01 16:39:00 <abrkn> who are these degen gamblers
420 2012-12-01 16:39:44 <sipa> abrkn: i have no clue; i completely fail to see why people do that
421 2012-12-01 16:40:04 <abrkn> sipa: i'm all for gambling, it can be a lot of fun, but just sending to an address and maybe getting back? how uninvolving
422 2012-12-01 16:40:38 <sipa> abrkn: reverting a transaction: making a merchant accept a transaction that spends a coin X, but getting another transaction that spends X in the block chain
423 2012-12-01 16:40:55 <sipa> abrkn: so from the merchant's point of view, their transaction is reverted, as it conflicts with the block chain
424 2012-12-01 16:41:03 <abrkn> how are they doing that?
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426 2012-12-01 16:41:56 <sipa> abrkn: by doing a double spend, make the merchant see one transactions and the rest of the network another
427 2012-12-01 16:42:05 <sipa> (not saying this is easy or even happening at all)
428 2012-12-01 16:42:07 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: pick your fees wisely
429 2012-12-01 16:42:10 <sipa> but it is a risk
430 2012-12-01 16:42:35 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: send to 1dice… using no fee, with inputs that most miners will demand a fee to mine
431 2012-12-01 16:42:57 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: if you win, just be patient for it to get mined; if you lose, use the same inputs with a fee to send to yourself
432 2012-12-01 16:43:17 <abrkn> hah :)
433 2012-12-01 16:43:26 <abrkn> im making a game, but its such a pain if you need to wait 10 min to get credited... how dull
434 2012-12-01 16:43:39 <abrkn> at what minconf am i unlikely to get killed by double spends?
435 2012-12-01 16:43:56 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: 6 confirms is basicalyl impossible to beat
436 2012-12-01 16:44:03 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: 1 confirm is good enough for low value
437 2012-12-01 16:44:07 <TD> abrkn: i'd say 1, but realistically, you can operate with zero until you see yourself being ripped off
438 2012-12-01 16:44:18 <sipa> that doesn't mean you need to wait for confirmation
439 2012-12-01 16:44:37 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: either way, you'll want to monitor new block rate; you might want to wait for 6 within 2 hours
440 2012-12-01 16:44:41 <sipa> if you can make things in a way that a player loses his service when he tries to double spend, risk is a lot lower
441 2012-12-01 16:44:43 <TD> abrkn: start optimistic and degrade the user experience as necessary until your fraud rates drop to an acceptable level, same with any anti-abuse system. quite likely, you can avoid ever requiring confirmations if you are careful to limit your exposure
442 2012-12-01 16:45:01 <abrkn> ok
443 2012-12-01 16:45:25 <abrkn> what minconf do the major exchanges operate wiht?
444 2012-12-01 16:45:38 <Luke-Jr> 6
445 2012-12-01 16:45:39 <TD> oh, 6
446 2012-12-01 16:45:42 <abrkn> i guess one should use different values for different transactions sizes
447 2012-12-01 16:45:44 <TD> but that's an exchange. prime targets
448 2012-12-01 16:45:45 <TD> yeah
449 2012-12-01 16:45:47 <Luke-Jr> exchanges are always high-risk
450 2012-12-01 16:45:59 <TD> i mean exchanges move potentially thousands of bitcoins around in single transactions
451 2012-12-01 16:46:04 <abrkn> right
452 2012-12-01 16:46:07 <TD> so they need as much security as they can get
453 2012-12-01 16:46:15 <abrkn> but why not do it in tiers? 0.1 btc, zero minconf
454 2012-12-01 16:46:17 <abrkn> 1000? 6
455 2012-12-01 16:46:32 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: so I spam you with 10000x 0.1 BTC txns, and double-spend them all?
456 2012-12-01 16:46:41 <abrkn> true
457 2012-12-01 16:50:51 <TD> well, they can have controls in place for that too
458 2012-12-01 16:51:15 <TD> abrkn: i think the real reason is just that bank wires are so much slower than bitcoin, it doesn't really make sense to optimize the bitcoin side of things. or at least it's not a high priority.
459 2012-12-01 16:51:27 <TD> they probably could do risk analysis and maybe in future they will, but for now, it's simpler not to
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466 2012-12-01 16:58:28 <diki> why is the bitcoin.conf file not moved where the binary is?
467 2012-12-01 16:58:53 <diki> this would allow me and everybody else to specify in the conf file where the datadir to be.
468 2012-12-01 16:59:01 <sipa> you can do that
469 2012-12-01 16:59:17 <sipa> ./bitcoind -conf=bitcoin.conf
470 2012-12-01 17:00:02 <diki> datadir path in the conf file?
471 2012-12-01 17:02:25 <sipa> yes
472 2012-12-01 17:03:05 <sipa> it should work, but i doubt many people use it
473 2012-12-01 17:04:38 <etotheipi_> Luke-Jr: I think making $200k in "cash" is plenty incentive enough to not care that you're increasing transaction volume on a system that should be able to handle the volume anyway
474 2012-12-01 17:05:09 <Luke-Jr> etotheipi_: there is no reason to think Bitcoin can handle volume that not even VISA does.
475 2012-12-01 17:05:38 <sipa> what makes you think SD causes as many transactions as VISA does? :S
476 2012-12-01 17:05:47 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, i'd like to see someway to detect if a transaction gets rolled back
477 2012-12-01 17:06:00 <phantomcircuit> i'd probably start accepting 0 confirmations for some things with that
478 2012-12-01 17:06:28 <Luke-Jr> sipa: SD causes 2 transactions per action. Try having WalMart do 2 VISA transactions for every item you take off the shelf
479 2012-12-01 17:07:23 <sipa> Luke-Jr: that's comparing apples and oranges; i fully agree SD should use a different mechanism, but with current volumes, it works fine
480 2012-12-01 17:07:37 <sipa> whether it will keep working fine is something else
481 2012-12-01 17:08:11 <Luke-Jr> it only works fine to the extent that Bitcoin miners are gradually blocking it
482 2012-12-01 17:08:36 <sipa> maybe, but it does
483 2012-12-01 17:09:17 <sipa> look, i'm not arguing that SD is using a bad mechanism here; but claiming "they DDoS the system" makes you completely unbelievable
484 2012-12-01 17:10:05 <Luke-Jr> well, it's true
485 2012-12-01 17:10:32 <sipa> DDoS implies it's an attack; they are not attacking; they are at most blind to the damage they cause
486 2012-12-01 17:10:52 <sipa> now i will stop arguing, because i know i won't agree with you
487 2012-12-01 17:11:13 <Luke-Jr> can't be blind when they're aware.
488 2012-12-01 17:12:00 <sipa> of course they can, by simply not believing you (and whether they are right not to believe you is completely irrelevant)
489 2012-12-01 17:12:56 <Luke-Jr> I don't recall a response of disbelief, more like "that's your problem. fix it"
490 2012-12-01 17:13:44 <sipa> yes, that's something i don't like either, but that still doesn't mean they are actively trying to damage the system
491 2012-12-01 17:14:02 <etotheipi_> it's a global transaction system... you can't create a global transaction system and not expect people to use it... you can't blame a company for using a business model that is completely within the limits of the system and then tell them they can't... it's like fighting for democracy in another country and then telling them they can't elect certain people
492 2012-12-01 17:14:21 <sipa> etotheipi_: agree
493 2012-12-01 17:14:33 <sipa> except for one thing
494 2012-12-01 17:14:50 <sipa> the bitcoin economy and system are young, and scaling it will take time
495 2012-12-01 17:15:10 <sipa> if they require it to scale faster than it can, they may cause damage
496 2012-12-01 17:15:31 <sipa> saying "it should deal with this" is not the same as "it should deal with this one day"
497 2012-12-01 17:15:44 <etotheipi_> sipa: I must agree with you -- SD burnt Armory pretty hard
498 2012-12-01 17:15:59 <etotheipi_> I was not expecting to have to deal with 3 years of blockchain size doubling in like 2 months
499 2012-12-01 17:16:26 <abrkn> every time i look at the chain, over half is sd
500 2012-12-01 17:16:33 <abrkn> polution...
501 2012-12-01 17:17:03 <etotheipi_> since SD started ,they have been 55% of all transactions
502 2012-12-01 17:20:28 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: that's an understatement
503 2012-12-01 17:22:13 <jgarzik> and
504 2012-12-01 17:22:23 <jgarzik> saying "it should deal with this" is not the same as "it can deal with this"
505 2012-12-01 17:22:24 <jgarzik> ;p
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507 2012-12-01 17:23:51 <jgarzik> sipa: http://gtf.org/garzik/bitcoin/blk0001.dat.bz2 should be the eu1 blockchain w/ reorgs
508 2012-12-01 17:24:35 <sipa> jgarzik: good to know; tested with luke's chain already
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514 2012-12-01 17:40:13 <gmaxwell> Real growth brings its own rewards: a biggern economy means more tolerance to the cost of the system, and more people to help work on reducing the costs. Growth from attacks or inefficiency.. not so much. I assumed the desire to limit artificial growth is why the size nodes mine was artificially limited below the network rule size.
515 2012-12-01 17:46:30 <TD> etotheipi_: yeah, but that's because you required the block chain to be held in RAM
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517 2012-12-01 17:46:47 <TD> SD hasn't really had a big  impact on the Android wallet app because it has taken steps to optimize, and more steps are being taken
518 2012-12-01 17:47:16 <etotheipi_> TD: yes... it was an unoptimized implementation, because it was a pet project before it became a public project
519 2012-12-01 17:47:59 <etotheipi_> hindsight is 20/20
520 2012-12-01 17:48:40 <etotheipi_> I knew it wasn't sustainable in the long run and I was going to have to upgrade, I just didn't realize the "long run" was only a couple months away at the time
521 2012-12-01 17:48:48 <sipa> i've been adding some microsecond-level benchmarking to the code
522 2012-12-01 17:49:26 <sipa> quite expected, but at least in the 170k first blocks, the time to write the undo data to disk far outweighs the rest
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539 2012-12-01 18:15:27 <sipa> on my CPU: transaction verification costs around 600us/txin
540 2012-12-01 18:15:46 <sipa> without script verification: around 10us/txin
541 2012-12-01 18:16:41 <sipa> but there are other things (like reading/writing block data) that outweight tx verification without script
542 2012-12-01 18:18:23 <sipa> s/transaction verification/transaction processing/
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560 2012-12-01 19:45:02 <jgarzik> sipa: I like -benchmark ;p
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562 2012-12-01 19:50:14 <sipa> example output:
563 2012-12-01 19:50:16 <sipa> 12/01/12 19:09:35 - Connect 240 transactions: 357344us (1488us/tx, 625us/txin)
564 2012-12-01 19:50:19 <sipa> 12/01/12 19:09:35 - Connect: 363026us
565 2012-12-01 19:50:21 <sipa> 12/01/12 19:09:35 - Flush 653 transactions: 1311us (2us/tx)
566 2012-12-01 19:57:15 <freewil> microseconds?
567 2012-12-01 19:57:22 <sipa> yes
568 2012-12-01 19:57:31 <freewil> nice
569 2012-12-01 19:57:54 <sipa> fractional milliseconds is probably more readable, though
570 2012-12-01 19:58:36 <freewil> or commas
571 2012-12-01 19:59:14 <freewil> (thousand separator)
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581 2012-12-01 20:14:48 <gmaxwell> no commas please. just complicates writing code that parses stuff. :P
582 2012-12-01 20:21:24 <sipa> 12/01/12 20:08:16 - Connect 804 transactions: 1214.690ms (1.5108ms/tx, 0.6169ms/txin)
583 2012-12-01 20:21:27 <sipa> 12/01/12 20:08:16 - Connect: 1233.559ms
584 2012-12-01 20:21:30 <sipa> 12/01/12 20:08:16 - Flush 2116 transactions: 3.508ms (0.00166ms/tx)
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589 2012-12-01 20:33:48 <Jude> Hai.
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594 2012-12-01 20:58:28 <Luke-Jr> I feel sorry for rebroad. He submitted -benchmark (slightly different) months ago and was told off.
595 2012-12-01 21:00:11 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
596 2012-12-01 21:00:21 wizkid057 has joined
597 2012-12-01 21:00:44 <sipa> well, i think this is more useful (it's not information that is conveyed by -logtimestamps), and optional
598 2012-12-01 21:01:40 <sipa> then again, i don't mind this not ending up in mainstream - it's mostly useful for development
599 2012-12-01 21:02:37 <sipa> s/mainstream/upstream/
600 2012-12-01 21:11:40 <gmaxwell> [OT] I recommended someone use Java for a project and he's asking me for a good java primer. Not being terribly java clueful myself, I don't have any to suggest... Any recommendations?
601 2012-12-01 21:16:20 <epscy> how long does it take to sync from testnet?
602 2012-12-01 21:16:38 <D34TH> epscy, depends on node your connected to
603 2012-12-01 21:17:07 <epscy> is it a similar timeframe to the real blockchain?
604 2012-12-01 21:17:11 <D34TH> no
605 2012-12-01 21:17:45 <D34TH> booting up my node
606 2012-12-01 21:17:50 <D34TH> maybe you'll connect
607 2012-12-01 21:18:22 <D34TH> try -addnode=skynets.kicks-ass.org
608 2012-12-01 21:18:59 <epscy> i seem to be getting a lot of blocks anyway
609 2012-12-01 21:19:16 <epscy> what is the current height of the testnet?
610 2012-12-01 21:19:31 <D34TH> "blocks" : 39176,
611 2012-12-01 21:19:43 <epscy> oh i am synced then :)
612 2012-12-01 21:19:47 <epscy> that was quick
613 2012-12-01 21:20:05 <D34TH> time to mine
614 2012-12-01 21:20:19 <epscy> you can mine with a cpu on testnet?
615 2012-12-01 21:20:28 <D34TH> "difficulty" : 1.00000000,
616 2012-12-01 21:20:29 <D34TH> yerp
617 2012-12-01 21:20:53 <gmaxwell> enmaku: no, much faster.
618 2012-12-01 21:21:00 <gmaxwell> yea...
619 2012-12-01 21:21:32 <D34TH> gmaxwell, you even highlighted the wrong person
620 2012-12-01 21:21:46 <D34TH> woohoo found a block
621 2012-12-01 21:21:51 <D34TH> im fake bitcoin rich
622 2012-12-01 21:22:06 <sipa> thereś nothing fake about testnet
623 2012-12-01 21:22:16 <sipa> they were even traded for bitcoins once upon a time :)
624 2012-12-01 21:22:25 <D34TH> yea, thats why it got reset
625 2012-12-01 21:22:30 Guest43076 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
626 2012-12-01 21:23:05 <sipa> i can't remember the reason for the switch to testnet2, but i really doubt it being valuable was one
627 2012-12-01 21:23:11 <epscy> "hashespersec" : 472772,
628 2012-12-01 21:23:24 <epscy> how long is it going to take me to find a block
629 2012-12-01 21:23:43 <D34TH> is there a up to date testnet blockexplorer
630 2012-12-01 21:23:48 <sipa> ;;calc **48/65535/600/472772
631 2012-12-01 21:23:49 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
632 2012-12-01 21:23:54 <sipa> ;;calc 2**48/65535/600/472772
633 2012-12-01 21:23:54 <gribble> 15.1413113615
634 2012-12-01 21:23:57 <D34TH> epscy: depends, your competeing against me
635 2012-12-01 21:23:59 <sipa> 15.1s
636 2012-12-01 21:24:21 <sipa> ehhh
637 2012-12-01 21:24:35 <D34TH> ;;calc 2**48/65535/600/173800000
638 2012-12-01 21:24:35 <gribble> 0.0411875031933
639 2012-12-01 21:24:42 <D34TH> im not finding blocks that quick
640 2012-12-01 21:24:42 <epscy> D34TH: it's not really competing is it?
641 2012-12-01 21:24:48 <sipa> ;;calc 2**48/65535/600/472772[B[B[B[B[Bdrop the /600
642 2012-12-01 21:24:48 <gribble> Error: Missing "]".  You may want to quote your arguments with double quotes in order to prevent extra brackets from being evaluated as nested commands.
643 2012-12-01 21:24:48 <epscy> if its diff 1
644 2012-12-01 21:24:55 <sipa> drop the 600
645 2012-12-01 21:25:05 <D34TH> ;;calc 2**48/65535/173800000
646 2012-12-01 21:25:05 <gribble> 24.712501916
647 2012-12-01 21:25:26 <D34TH> theoretically i should be finding blocks that quick
648 2012-12-01 21:25:30 <D34TH> but it doesnt seem that way
649 2012-12-01 21:25:56 <sipa> sure you're not being hit by the special testnet difficulty rule?
650 2012-12-01 21:26:04 <D34TH> hmm?
651 2012-12-01 21:26:05 <epscy> sipa: ?
652 2012-12-01 21:26:12 <D34TH> still says diff1
653 2012-12-01 21:26:12 <sipa> that the actual difficulty is higher, but it allows a diff-1 block if there hasn't been a block for 20 min
654 2012-12-01 21:26:43 <epscy> so whats the actual diff
655 2012-12-01 21:27:02 <D34TH> probably like 100
656 2012-12-01 21:28:00 <D34TH> wow there isnt a up to date testnet explorer
657 2012-12-01 21:28:37 Hasimir has joined
658 2012-12-01 21:28:52 Hasimir is now known as Guest8096
659 2012-12-01 21:31:04 <gmaxwell> D34TH: bitcoind itself is pretty much a block explorer now.
660 2012-12-01 21:31:27 <D34TH> gmaxwell, it doesnt tell me the correct diff
661 2012-12-01 21:31:29 <D34TH> D:
662 2012-12-01 21:31:32 <gmaxwell> other than index by address it does everything block explorer does pretty much.
663 2012-12-01 21:32:13 <gmaxwell> It tells you the diff of the last block, or the current attempted diff if you call getblocktemplate.
664 2012-12-01 21:32:26 <gmaxwell> Also, http://blockexplorer.com/testnet is upto date.
665 2012-12-01 21:32:55 <D34TH> no it isnt
666 2012-12-01 21:33:01 <D34TH> height is 39178
667 2012-12-01 21:33:20 <epscy> hmm, i think i need to give this vm more memory
668 2012-12-01 21:33:32 <epscy> g++: internal compiler error: Killed (program cc1plus)
669 2012-12-01 21:34:02 <D34TH> epscy, that'll do it
670 2012-12-01 21:34:17 <gmaxwell> hm. isn't testnet enforcing height in coinbase?
671 2012-12-01 21:34:28 <Jude> Needs at least 256MB if I recall correctly.
672 2012-12-01 21:34:42 <epscy> this vm has 512
673 2012-12-01 21:34:54 <epscy> and 512 swap
674 2012-12-01 21:36:06 <gmaxwell> Jude: to compile bitcoin? more like a gig. If you don't compile in parallel that helps.
675 2012-12-01 21:36:07 <Jude> Do you have X running?
676 2012-12-01 21:36:18 <epscy> nope, it's headless
677 2012-12-01 21:36:24 <Jude> Oh really?
678 2012-12-01 21:36:27 <epscy> just a couple of tmux windows
679 2012-12-01 21:36:32 <Jude> I am stuck in LTC world, lol.
680 2012-12-01 21:37:39 BCBot2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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685 2012-12-01 21:52:04 <riush> sipa: i think there's a typo in the comment for your new varints.. 65535: [0x82 0xFD 0x7F] should be [0x82 0xFE 0x7F], right?
686 2012-12-01 21:52:19 MiningBuddy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
687 2012-12-01 21:54:57 <sipa> riush: you're absolutely right
688 2012-12-01 21:55:17 <sipa> i love it that someone actually bothers checking that :)
689 2012-12-01 21:55:53 <Luke-Jr> lol
690 2012-12-01 21:56:02 <riush> good. thoght i'm going mad, 16511 broken but 65535 works again :p
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716 2012-12-01 23:16:26 <freewil> nearly killed my server trying to stream debug.log through logstash
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721 2012-12-01 23:37:01 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
722 2012-12-01 23:37:06 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
723 2012-12-01 23:43:46 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
724 2012-12-01 23:43:46 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
725 2012-12-01 23:47:33 noagendamarket has joined
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727 2012-12-01 23:50:58 <diki> So...whatever happened to ArtForZ? He was pretty popular last year, and he had a few FPGAs, but I have not seen him username in a long long time.
728 2012-12-01 23:51:09 <Diablo-D3> he quit irc
729 2012-12-01 23:51:22 <diki> and the forums?
730 2012-12-01 23:53:30 torsthaldo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
731 2012-12-01 23:54:12 noagendamarket has quit (Quit: Leaving)
732 2012-12-01 23:54:57 <gmaxwell> ohoh.
733 2012-12-01 23:55:11 <gmaxwell> I just noticed my public ultraprune node is stuck at
734 2012-12-01 23:55:11 <gmaxwell>     "blocks" : 210022,
735 2012-12-01 23:55:15 noagendamarket has joined
736 2012-12-01 23:55:52 <sipa> which error?
737 2012-12-01 23:55:56 <gmaxwell> looking now
738 2012-12-01 23:55:57 BlackPrapor has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
739 2012-12-01 23:56:02 <gmaxwell> it's on moderately old code...
740 2012-12-01 23:56:32 <denisx> my nodes code is only some days old and latest block is 210516
741 2012-12-01 23:56:41 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
742 2012-12-01 23:56:41 <gribble> 210516
743 2012-12-01 23:57:30 <denisx> last commit i have is 5c37be2db6
744 2012-12-01 23:59:17 <gmaxwell> 11/28/12 18:42:15 ERROR: ConnectBlock() : inputs missing/spent
745 2012-12-01 23:59:17 <gmaxwell> 11/28/12 18:42:15 InvalidChainFound: invalid block=00000000000004b1002c  height=210023  work=43555608048625014060  date=11/28/12 18:43:50
746 2012-12-01 23:59:17 <gmaxwell> 11/28/12 18:42:15 InvalidChainFound:  current best=00000000000003b3b9d6  height=210022  work=43540837821731432620  date=11/28/12 18:18:26
747 2012-12-01 23:59:17 <gmaxwell> 11/28/12 18:42:15 InvalidChainFound: invalid block=00000000000004b1002c  height=210023  work=43555608048625014060  date=11/28/12 18:43:50
748 2012-12-01 23:59:17 <gmaxwell> 11/28/12 18:42:15 InvalidChainFound:  current best=00000000000003b3b9d6  height=210022  work=43540837821731432620  date=11/28/12 18:18:26
749 2012-12-01 23:59:17 <gmaxwell> 11/28/12 18:42:15 ERROR: SetBestBlock() : ConnectBlock 00000000000004b1002c failed
750 2012-12-01 23:59:17 <gmaxwell> denisx: yes, I know that— thats why I said it was stuck.
751 2012-12-01 23:59:17 <denisx> gmaxwell: I know you know
752 2012-12-01 23:59:17 <sipa> gmaxwell: that sounds bad
753 2012-12-01 23:59:17 <sipa> gmaxwell: any failed reorganisation before that?