1 2012-12-03 00:18:19 Impaler has joined
  2 2012-12-03 00:18:51 <sipa> boost seems to have a function to request the number of threads the hardware can execture simultaneously, but i doubt it distinguishes between real cores and hyperthreading
  3 2012-12-03 00:19:19 <maaku> c++ question: if I use something like printf("…", FormatMoney(value).c_str()); is the std::string object returned by FormatMoney properly destroyed, or is that a memory leak?
  4 2012-12-03 00:19:50 <sipa> it will be destroyed
  5 2012-12-03 00:19:55 <sipa> c++ even specifies when
  6 2012-12-03 00:20:02 <sipa> (after the printf call)
  7 2012-12-03 00:20:07 <maaku> thank you
  8 2012-12-03 00:20:24 <maaku> i've been using dynamic languages for too long; i used to know this stuff :\
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 13 2012-12-03 00:29:32 <phantomcircuit> sipa, im sure it doesn't
 14 2012-12-03 00:32:06 <sipa> phantomcircuit: i'm sure it does
 15 2012-12-03 00:32:24 <phantomcircuit> talking about boost
 16 2012-12-03 00:32:28 <sipa> oh
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 21 2012-12-03 00:44:56 <gmaxwell> 12/02/12 23:43:29 SetBestChain: new best=00000000839a8e6886ab5951d76f411475428afc90947ee320161bbf18eb6048  height=1  work=8590065666  tx=2  date=01/09/09 02:54:25
 22 2012-12-03 00:44:59 <gmaxwell> 12/03/12 00:20:39 SetBestChain: new best=000000000000048b95347e83192f69cf0366076336c639f9b7228e9ba171342e  height=210000  work=628963747775700992096  tx=9344662  date=11/28/12 15:24:38
 23 2012-12-03 00:45:35 <gmaxwell> 37 minutes, thats hal+checkpoint=0+par=8+coins_rebuild with it set to only pull one from the queue.
 24 2012-12-03 00:48:25 <sipa> same as with laeger batches?
 25 2012-12-03 00:49:49 <sipa> 37:20
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 34 2012-12-03 01:00:46 * jgarzik returns
 35 2012-12-03 01:00:59 <jgarzik> catching up on the jgarzik thread... nothing new apparently ;p
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 40 2012-12-03 01:11:25 <sipa> gmaxwell: where do you get those numbers? the fraction of signature-verification load before the checkpoint vs. all is certainly above 50%
 41 2012-12-03 01:12:08 <sipa> 58% even
 42 2012-12-03 01:14:43 <gmaxwell> sipa: I'm assuming the 40% speedup hal version there.
 43 2012-12-03 01:15:07 <gmaxwell> Perhaps I'm wrong— it's certantly in the same order of magnitude in any case.
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 45 2012-12-03 01:16:56 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: I think that thread has been a significant public service— I've noticed that a number of the less reasonable sounding people have had their ignores go bright gold in the time since the thread started.
 46 2012-12-03 01:19:22 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: hehe, now if only we can convince theymos that those with such ignore colors just need to be kicked
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 49 2012-12-03 01:19:34 <jgarzik> baby bedtime, bbiab
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 51 2012-12-03 01:22:30 <Impaler> did Bitcoin dependencies change with 0.7.1?
 52 2012-12-03 01:23:00 <Impaler> I'm trying to compile and have an unfound reference to boost/signal2 headers
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 61 2012-12-03 01:40:02 <etotheipi_> anyone know of a good way to examine RAM usage of C++ containers?
 62 2012-12-03 01:40:36 <etotheipi_> Armory is using quite a bit more RAM than I think it should, but I can't seem to isolate it:  and clearing maps doesn't affect the process usage in the system monitor (I assume, until something else needs the RAM and claims it)
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 69 2012-12-03 01:56:02 <gmaxwell> sipa:
 70 2012-12-03 01:56:02 <gmaxwell> 12/03/12 00:56:46 SetBestChain: new best=00000000839a8e6886ab5951d76f411475428afc90947ee320161bbf18eb6048  height=1  work=8590065666  tx=2  date=01/09/09 02:54:25
 71 2012-12-03 01:56:05 <gmaxwell> 12/03/12 01:34:25 SetBestChain: new best=000000000000048b95347e83192f69cf0366076336c639f9b7228e9ba171342e  height=210000  work=628963747775700992096  tx=9344662  date=11/28/12 15:24:38
 72 2012-12-03 01:56:44 <gmaxwell> thats par8 with it set to pull 2-min(16, N/threads). ... so yea.. seems I was wrong about that helping.
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 91 2012-12-03 03:27:59 <_andyj_> Anyone tried putting a sha256 core on a cpld?  I know they don't have the same gate count but tend to be cheaper and more reliable delays
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 94 2012-12-03 03:47:39 <jgarzik> hum
 95 2012-12-03 03:47:42 <jgarzik> I have a DNS seeder?
 96 2012-12-03 03:47:45 <jgarzik> I didn't know that.
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100 2012-12-03 04:00:45 <Diablo-D3> heh
101 2012-12-03 04:00:56 <Diablo-D3> _andyj_: less than a sx150? not enough
102 2012-12-03 04:01:26 <Diablo-D3> ALTHOUGH
103 2012-12-03 04:01:36 <Diablo-D3> rolled up cores work a shitload better on constrained ships like spartan 6s
104 2012-12-03 04:01:44 <Diablo-D3> so it might not be so bad on whatever your fpga is
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106 2012-12-03 04:08:40 <_andyj_> Diablo-D3, I am still trying to find a metric to convert logic gates to macro cells equivalently.  I am wondering if loading up the open core sha256 in use we black will tell me macro cells needed
107 2012-12-03 04:09:15 <Diablo-D3> you cant
108 2012-12-03 04:09:18 <_andyj_> Err ise webpack
109 2012-12-03 04:09:22 <Diablo-D3> each arch is different, even from the same vendor
110 2012-12-03 04:09:38 owowo_ has joined
111 2012-12-03 04:09:47 <Diablo-D3> and some archs have stuff like easily accessable adders
112 2012-12-03 04:09:51 <Diablo-D3> which further complicate things
113 2012-12-03 04:10:10 <_andyj_> But maybe at least for xilinx cpld's then
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157 2012-12-03 06:33:25 <dust-otc> is there a way with the standard bitcoind to get the balance of addresses I do not own?
158 2012-12-03 06:33:50 <dust-otc> I can add them to accounts but the balance is 0
159 2012-12-03 06:40:56 RazielZ has joined
160 2012-12-03 06:42:38 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: we linux kernel types get bored if we don't have a good flamewar every now and again
161 2012-12-03 06:43:15 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: Linus has great flames that typically start off "fuck you, you're just stupid"
162 2012-12-03 06:43:35 <jgarzik> and then he explains why, backing it up with hard facts ;p
163 2012-12-03 06:43:50 <gmaxwell> dust-otc: you can't, it doesnt maintain an address index that would allow it to lookup the transactions for an address...
164 2012-12-03 06:43:51 <jgarzik> I'm nowhere near as good
165 2012-12-03 06:44:02 <jgarzik> but it is very cathartic
166 2012-12-03 06:44:25 <gmaxwell> I've got the "fuck you, you're just stupid" part down pat.  :-/
167 2012-12-03 06:44:47 <dust-otc> gmaxwell: is there any easy way to do so without relying on third party services?
168 2012-12-03 06:45:17 <gmaxwell> dust-otc: you can run something like abe, but I don't think I'd call that easy.
169 2012-12-03 06:46:38 <dust-otc> gmaxwell: ok, thanks
170 2012-12-03 06:47:40 <ThomasV> dust-otc: you can run an electrum server without abe
171 2012-12-03 06:47:55 <ThomasV> (with leveldb)
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173 2012-12-03 06:51:09 <MC1984> http://cryptome.org/2012/12/assange-crypto-arms.htm this is the foreword to assanges new book
174 2012-12-03 06:51:34 <MC1984> he argues encryption is the only thing that will save us from ourselves
175 2012-12-03 06:52:24 <MC1984> written like a wise (senile) old man telling stories around the fire though
176 2012-12-03 06:53:07 <eennaam> meh
177 2012-12-03 06:53:10 <gmaxwell> OT for bitcoin-dev, but interesting.. Move it to #bitcoin and I'll comment there.
178 2012-12-03 06:53:13 <eennaam> im getting assange-tired
179 2012-12-03 06:54:54 <MC1984> woops i thought this was bticoin
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190 2012-12-03 08:12:20 <andrew12-> going to try to crack casacasius' code
191 2012-12-03 08:13:21 <Diablo-D3> er?
192 2012-12-03 08:13:27 <Diablo-D3> you do realize those are valid keys, right?
193 2012-12-03 08:13:39 <andrew12-> ?
194 2012-12-03 08:14:11 <andrew12-> the key he gives is encrypted
195 2012-12-03 08:14:48 <Diablo-D3> no, it IS the key
196 2012-12-03 08:15:27 <andrew12-> then why hasn't someone stolen it yet
197 2012-12-03 08:15:37 <Diablo-D3> because you have to destroy the coin to get it
198 2012-12-03 08:16:06 <Diablo-D3> [01:30:28] <jgarzik> gmaxwell: Linus has great flames that typically start off "fuck you, you're just stupid"
199 2012-12-03 08:16:30 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: someone needs to do one of those throw away blog things people do just doing a list of his greatest posts
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201 2012-12-03 08:18:39 <abrkn> how does SD know where the btc comes from (in order to return it)?
202 2012-12-03 08:19:12 <abrkn> (how could i figure out the same using getrawtransaction and decoderawtransaction of bitcoind?)
203 2012-12-03 08:20:15 <sipa> yes, but don't
204 2012-12-03 08:21:22 <abrkn> why is that?
205 2012-12-03 08:21:37 <xIsalty> because you were told not to
206 2012-12-03 08:24:47 nameless has left (!~root@weowntheinter.net|)
207 2012-12-03 08:24:56 <abrkn> http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/4604/how-to-return-bitcoins-to-sender-through-bitcoin-api <- the only reason i see why you wouldnt do that is because of people using managed wallets
208 2012-12-03 08:27:41 <MC1984> everyone likes linus
209 2012-12-03 08:27:48 <MC1984> hes an asshole because he earned it
210 2012-12-03 08:29:08 <jgarzik> abrkn: it's not guaranteed to work, and you don't know it failed until money gets sent off into space
211 2012-12-03 08:30:38 <abrkn> jgarzik: ok, im just trying to work out a way to put money into my game without having to wait an hour for confirmations
212 2012-12-03 08:31:41 <jgarzik> abrkn: That's a full six confirmations.  Just reduce the confirmation count, to lower that number.
213 2012-12-03 08:33:14 <abrkn> jgarzik: maybe i could let them play from 0 conf but not take anything out before X conf?
214 2012-12-03 08:33:48 <jgarzik> abrkn: deposit 0 conf + withdraw 0 conf is incredibly risky
215 2012-12-03 08:34:15 <jgarzik> abrkn: plus, do you really want to be on the hook for a reversed 1000 BTC deposit?
216 2012-12-03 08:34:45 <abrkn> jgarzik: but you wouldnt be able to withdraw anything unless i have X conf on every deposit you ever made
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220 2012-12-03 08:35:15 <jgarzik> abrkn: it's a business decision what level of risk to accept, but think about amounts as well as just confirmations.  ask yourself how much risk you can accept, if a 0-conf gets never-confirmed (possible!) or reversed in a double-spend.
221 2012-12-03 08:35:36 <jgarzik> abrkn: you might accept 1 BTC 0-conf, but 1000 BTC requires 6-conf
222 2012-12-03 08:36:01 <abrkn> jgarzik: i think the issue is that i dont understand well how common these double spends are - or how easy they are to execute
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224 2012-12-03 08:36:23 <jgarzik> abrkn: up to 1 confirmation is worth it and doable for 100 BTC
225 2012-12-03 08:37:01 <jgarzik> abrkn: (or 1 BTC x 100 deposits, etc.)
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227 2012-12-03 08:39:48 <abrkn> jgarzik: would there be any downside to letting people play with 0 conf but not allowing them to withdraw anything unless all deposits have 3 conf etc?
228 2012-12-03 08:40:24 <jgarzik> abrkn: well, consider the economics.  what makes economic sense to a cheater?
229 2012-12-03 08:40:32 <jgarzik> abrkn: if you win, wait out the confirmations before withdrawal
230 2012-12-03 08:40:42 <jgarzik> abrkn: if you lose, double-spend the deposits elsewhere and move on
231 2012-12-03 08:40:50 <abrkn> jgarzik: right, that was my concern
232 2012-12-03 08:42:02 <jgarzik> abrkn: for a person whose total wager is 1 BTC, it's probably not worth it to reverse a 1BTC loss
233 2012-12-03 08:42:10 <jgarzik> abrkn: if the wager is larger, it is worth it
234 2012-12-03 08:43:06 <jgarzik> abrkn: that's why mtgox waits 6 confirmations, but a music download site doesn't care :)
235 2012-12-03 08:43:19 <jeremias> bitpay says that they haven't had a single double spend attempt, they accept zero-confirmation payments
236 2012-12-03 08:43:47 <abrkn> are there any stats on double spends? (when, how much, targets, etc)
237 2012-12-03 08:44:08 <jeremias> http://blockchain.info/double-spends
238 2012-12-03 08:45:17 <abrkn> wow, that's rare
239 2012-12-03 08:45:30 <jeremias> I think many of those might just be erronous
240 2012-12-03 08:45:58 <jeremias> it doesn't make much sense to try scamming people with double spends
241 2012-12-03 08:46:06 <jeremias> traditional scams work way better
242 2012-12-03 08:46:39 <jeremias> like social engineering
243 2012-12-03 08:47:15 <abrkn> indeed
244 2012-12-03 08:47:21 <abrkn> i remember when i briefly played eve online. whoa!
245 2012-12-03 08:47:25 <abrkn> that place is scam school
246 2012-12-03 08:48:04 <abrkn> they'd be like: im selling 100 lemons for 10 each and the total would be 10000 on the price tag
247 2012-12-03 08:48:15 <abrkn> you think wow 10 is cheap and you click buy :P
248 2012-12-03 08:48:33 <abrkn> (obviously they'd use way more confusing quantities and unit prices)
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252 2012-12-03 09:03:39 <MC1984> greg seems to think that accepting zero conf = lose the shirt off your back within 10 mins
253 2012-12-03 09:03:47 <MC1984> i wonder what he thinks of the wordpress thing
254 2012-12-03 09:04:03 <MC1984> i suppose if youre selling a service you can just withdraw the service
255 2012-12-03 09:04:55 <jeremias> yes, and with selling physical product online you just don't send the stuff
256 2012-12-03 09:05:58 <MC1984> selling digital goods is riskier
257 2012-12-03 09:06:13 <MC1984> but then they can be copied anyway, no dicking around needed
258 2012-12-03 09:06:14 <jeremias> usually digital goods are very low-cost in every case
259 2012-12-03 09:06:27 <jeremias> the actual fraud rate matters, not theoretical
260 2012-12-03 09:06:50 <jeremias> based on current experiences, I would recommend to start with zero-conf, if problems arise, then switch to some other model
261 2012-12-03 09:14:28 <abrkn> what would a double spend look like when speaking to bitcoind? would the block at the top of the chain change?
262 2012-12-03 09:21:19 jaromil has joined
263 2012-12-03 09:22:09 <jaromil> re all (ya all jeff's bitches now!) :^))) (@op joke)
264 2012-12-03 09:22:51 <jaromil> jgarzik: picocoin is NEAT and CUDDLY. filed a pull req on minor glib <2.28 compat issue, hanging out just in case you like to get in touch about it
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274 2012-12-03 10:06:33 <jgarzik> jaromil: thanks, commented
275 2012-12-03 10:06:44 <jgarzik> jaromil: someone else found the same issue the other day
276 2012-12-03 10:08:21 <jaromil> its easy to spot if one uses debian stable
277 2012-12-03 10:08:24 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
278 2012-12-03 10:19:08 <sipa> haha
279 2012-12-03 10:19:17 <sipa> hi there jaromil!
280 2012-12-03 10:19:26 <Diablo-D3> [03:50:52] <MC1984> greg seems to think that accepting zero conf = lose the shirt off your back within 10 mins
281 2012-12-03 10:19:33 <Diablo-D3> I love how this line makes zero sense out of context
282 2012-12-03 10:22:28 <da2ce7> what is the resonable limits on m of n tx's?
283 2012-12-03 10:22:37 <da2ce7> like 10 / 20 or 100 / 200
284 2012-12-03 10:22:44 <da2ce7> or 2000 / 10000
285 2012-12-03 10:22:55 <da2ce7> at what point will the fee get too large?
286 2012-12-03 10:24:07 <Diablo-D3> da2ce7: I dont think the client can process anything that big
287 2012-12-03 10:24:29 <da2ce7> hmm... if we had a modifed client?
288 2012-12-03 10:24:30 <Diablo-D3> I remember sipa or gmaxwell talking about it
289 2012-12-03 10:24:42 <Diablo-D3> no I mean, like, they should be able to they just dont
290 2012-12-03 10:27:58 <da2ce7> becasue if the fees were small (like less than a few btc), then having MANY signtures on a P2SH would be quite usefull for our coloured coin OT. (when we use the bitcoin network to enforce some issuance rules).
291 2012-12-03 10:28:10 <jaromil> sipa: hi :^)
292 2012-12-03 10:28:22 <da2ce7> If you are issueing thousands of BTC worth of coloured coins.... then paying a 10 btc fee is fine.
293 2012-12-03 10:28:43 <jaromil> jgarzik: compat.h makes more sense, i've refiled the pull req with less lines changed
294 2012-12-03 10:28:50 kamphund is now known as panzer
295 2012-12-03 10:29:26 <sipa> da2ce7: 20 sigops is maximum for a standard tx
296 2012-12-03 10:29:45 <sipa> da2ce7: 20k sigops per block is hard limit
297 2012-12-03 10:30:40 <da2ce7> so having a 2000 / 10000 would be possible.... unless we hit into the 1mb limit.
298 2012-12-03 10:33:38 <jgarzik> jaromil: pulled, thanks
299 2012-12-03 10:35:31 molec has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
300 2012-12-03 10:36:02 <jaromil> thankyou for picocoin, finally some code that doesn't gives me the shivers :)
301 2012-12-03 10:36:40 <jgarzik> jaromil: heh, well, it's still under construction.  plenty of time to give you shivers ;p
302 2012-12-03 10:36:50 denisx has joined
303 2012-12-03 10:38:20 <jaromil> i'll do what I can to help. have you read my issue/suggestion about polarSSL? not sure what you think about it
304 2012-12-03 10:38:31 <jaromil> so far I've seen you are using very little from openssl
305 2012-12-03 10:38:35 <jaromil> but I haven't read it all yet
306 2012-12-03 10:39:35 <jaromil> oh I see you commented it
307 2012-12-03 10:39:46 <jgarzik> jaromil: using: sha1, sha256, ripemd160, BIGNUM, ECDSA
308 2012-12-03 10:39:59 <jaromil> ok that helps. I'll have a look, using polarSSL already on some openvpn implementations myself
309 2012-12-03 10:40:34 <jgarzik> jaromil: does polarssl do ecdsa?
310 2012-12-03 10:41:15 <sipa> gmaxwell: i think there's one more improvement i can do to the parallellization: only have N-1 worker threads, and make the block processing thread take the role of the Nth one when connection has finished
311 2012-12-03 10:41:35 <sipa> so the block processing doesn't fight with the workers for CPU time
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314 2012-12-03 10:43:15 <jgarzik> jaromil: Looks like PolarSSL lacks ECDSA and RIPEMD160, but has SHA1, SHA256 and BIGNUM
315 2012-12-03 10:43:26 * jgarzik pastes into issue
316 2012-12-03 10:43:57 <jaromil> yea :/
317 2012-12-03 10:44:06 <sipa> hmm, gavin doesn't like halcode :(
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320 2012-12-03 10:46:18 <sipa> da2ce7: 2000/10000 is theoretically feasible, but it would (or at least should) be ridiculously expensive, as it would be almost the only transaction in a block
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323 2012-12-03 10:47:06 <sipa> da2ce7: also you'll need a complex own script, as the standard opcode only supports up to 20 keys
324 2012-12-03 10:47:19 <jgarzik> sipa: :(
325 2012-12-03 10:47:34 <jaromil> jgarzik: cyaSSL could be another candidate
326 2012-12-03 10:48:21 TD_ has joined
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328 2012-12-03 10:48:49 <jaromil> but there is no openssl compat layer so part of the code needs refactoring then
329 2012-12-03 10:48:49 <sipa> jgarzik: well - he has a point in that the code is not really obvious... i suppose if i can factor out the fast multiplication code (which at least will require understanding it), it can be more easily written as "an obvious ECDSA implementation"
330 2012-12-03 10:49:45 <jgarzik> jaromil: mind you, picocoin is licensed MIT/X11, not GPL
331 2012-12-03 10:50:13 <jaromil> yes, still openssl is a licensing PITA for everyone AFAIK
332 2012-12-03 10:50:24 <jgarzik> sipa: solve everybody's problems by creating libecdsa_bignum
333 2012-12-03 10:50:44 <jgarzik> sipa: that solves the side problem of fedora openssl lacking ecdsa </bias>
334 2012-12-03 10:51:32 `2Fast2BCn has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
335 2012-12-03 10:51:38 <jgarzik> jaromil: I don't mind abstracting out stuff, to work with another lib
336 2012-12-03 10:51:49 <jgarzik> jaromil: The problem is finding a lib that does ECDSA I think :)
337 2012-12-03 10:51:56 <sipa> jgarzik: i'm not going to maintain such a thing, and if the problem is peer review, that's not going to help either
338 2012-12-03 10:51:59 <jaromil> yes that is the missing part most of the time
339 2012-12-03 10:52:19 <jaromil> the nice thing of cyassl and polarssl is that they really work well on embedded stuff
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341 2012-12-03 10:52:49 <jgarzik> jaromil: if you have ecdsa and bignum, the rest are just simple hashing algorithms, easy enough to directly import into the codebase
342 2012-12-03 10:55:13 <jaromil> i find it neat https://polarssl.org/api/bignum_8h.html
343 2012-12-03 10:55:38 <jaromil> i don't know ECDSA but RIPEMD160 should be fairly easy to implement?
344 2012-12-03 10:56:00 <jaromil> sha is relatively trivial
345 2012-12-03 10:56:03 <jgarzik> jaromil: cya has ripemd160
346 2012-12-03 10:56:15 <sipa> RIPEMD160 shouldn't be more code than SHA2
347 2012-12-03 10:56:16 <jgarzik> jaromil: yes, hashing is always easy to implement.
348 2012-12-03 10:56:20 <sipa> ECDSA is significantly more
349 2012-12-03 10:56:32 <jgarzik> jaromil: and there is no need to implement -- you can google around and find a suitably licensed implementation
350 2012-12-03 10:56:35 <jaromil> yea so that's the tough guy
351 2012-12-03 10:56:38 <jgarzik> jaromil: steal from crypto++ if nothing else
352 2012-12-03 10:57:52 <jgarzik> jaromil: Yes.  For example, it would make no sense to import or wrap sha1/sha256/ripemd160 right now, as long as ECDSA still requires OpenSSL
353 2012-12-03 10:58:15 <jgarzik> jaromil: but once ECDSA does not require OpenSSL, it is ok to import or wrap the hash algorithms
354 2012-12-03 10:58:23 * jaromil nods
355 2012-12-03 10:58:34 <sipa> hmm.... https://github.com/joyent/node/blob/master/deps/openssl/openssl/crypto/ec/ecp_nistp256.c
356 2012-12-03 10:58:50 <sipa> oh, nist P
357 2012-12-03 10:59:16 <sipa> not secp k
358 2012-12-03 10:59:39 molec has joined
359 2012-12-03 11:00:26 <jaromil> well i think its this one http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6605
360 2012-12-03 11:01:10 <sipa> yes, but that's not the curve bitcoin usus
361 2012-12-03 11:01:12 <jgarzik> that's curve P-256
362 2012-12-03 11:01:49 <sipa> i think P-256 == secp256r1
363 2012-12-03 11:01:52 <jgarzik> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6090 is neat though
364 2012-12-03 11:02:06 <jgarzik> nice to have that out in the open in an RFC
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368 2012-12-03 11:03:44 <abrkn> what would a double spend look like when speaking to bitcoind? would the block at the top of the chain change?
369 2012-12-03 11:04:00 <jaromil> well, IETF is OK :^)
370 2012-12-03 11:04:41 <sipa> abrkn: that's just a reorganisation, which happens all the time, and is harmless and expected
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372 2012-12-03 11:05:00 <sipa> abrkn: it's only an attempted double spend if the old and the new chain contain conflicting transactions
373 2012-12-03 11:05:18 remiforall has joined
374 2012-12-03 11:06:40 <jgarzik> you might not see a double spend until it appears in a block, FWIW
375 2012-12-03 11:07:09 <jaromil> what about OpenECC?
376 2012-12-03 11:07:28 <jaromil> https://github.com/OpenECC/OpenECC/blob/master/ECDSA.c
377 2012-12-03 11:07:56 <sipa> not secp256k1
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385 2012-12-03 12:00:20 <slush> How is possible that ./bitcoind getbalance and ./bitcoind getbalance "" displays different amounts?
386 2012-12-03 12:00:24 <slush> Second one much bigger
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391 2012-12-03 12:13:15 <Jouke> slush: neggative accounts?
392 2012-12-03 12:13:21 <Jouke> "" is an account
393 2012-12-03 12:13:30 <slush> Jouke: no, just bigger balance
394 2012-12-03 12:13:41 <slush> it is on pool, so maybe these are unmatured blocks
395 2012-12-03 12:14:12 <slush> but I expected that "getbalance" counts only spendable coins (so confirmations are counted since maturation)
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403 2012-12-03 13:08:16 <kinlo> slush: getbalance shows your entire wallets balance, getbalance "" only the balance of the "" account...
404 2012-12-03 13:08:28 <kinlo> do you use multiple accounts?
405 2012-12-03 13:08:41 <kinlo> the answer to that question should be yes given your results
406 2012-12-03 13:10:16 <kinlo> slush: you should run the listaccounts command and see
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495 2012-12-03 16:21:35 <Pucilowski> Does an SSL connection secure me from a rogue network admin? I'm assuming my machine is clean
496 2012-12-03 16:22:28 <gmaxwell> Pucilowski: to some extent.
497 2012-12-03 16:23:43 ciphermonk has joined
498 2012-12-03 16:24:02 <upb> depends on your client :)
499 2012-12-03 16:24:02 <gmaxwell> so long as you never click past certificate warnings, and so long as he's not also the rogue admin of the server's network or not willing to spend a lot of time and money setting up to monitor a single site, and assuming he hasn't gotten you to install his own CA cert, or gotten a subca cert from a greedy/dishonest CA.
500 2012-12-03 16:24:23 <gmaxwell> and indeed, so long as your client actually enforces the rules! not all ssl using software does. (though browsers do)
501 2012-12-03 16:25:12 <gavinandresen> Pucilowski: ... unless your rogue network admin is working for the NSA or you do something stupid, yes, a SSL connection will protect you.
502 2012-12-03 16:25:56 * gavinandresen wonders what Pucilowski needs protecting from....
503 2012-12-03 16:26:13 <Pucilowski> school
504 2012-12-03 16:27:01 <Pucilowski> I receive interest in bitcoins during the day but can't tend to them until I get home
505 2012-12-03 16:27:18 <Pucilowski> Looking at the blockchain.info wallet app
506 2012-12-03 16:27:25 <epscy> interest?
507 2012-12-03 16:27:25 dstien has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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509 2012-12-03 16:27:54 <Pucilowski> as in, offers
510 2012-12-03 16:28:02 <Pucilowski> on localbitcoins
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516 2012-12-03 16:36:57 <BlueMatt> yay, more people asking to fork the chain to deal with sd spam...
517 2012-12-03 16:37:15 <BlueMatt> yet when proposals come up to deal with it in other prioritization ways, they are immediately rejected
518 2012-12-03 16:38:26 knotwork has joined
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521 2012-12-03 16:40:10 <BlueMatt> so which core dev wants to sign up to manage a 24/7 testnet (+mining?) node?
522 2012-12-03 16:40:53 <BlueMatt> (and/or also https served binary downloads)
523 2012-12-03 16:41:10 * gavinandresen points to jgarzik
524 2012-12-03 16:43:01 da2ce7_d has joined
525 2012-12-03 16:43:55 <gmaxwell> If jeff's not willing I guess I am. (as I already maintain a couple).
526 2012-12-03 16:44:18 <gavinandresen> https downloads might be better served from Amazon EC2... I think you can setup your own domain/SSL cert ...
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531 2012-12-03 16:48:01 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: fair enough
532 2012-12-03 16:48:42 dstien has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
533 2012-12-03 16:48:47 <gavinandresen> speaking of binary downloads... what's up with 0.7.2  ?
534 2012-12-03 16:48:57 skeledrew has joined
535 2012-12-03 16:49:11 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: ping?
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556 2012-12-03 17:31:53 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: pong
557 2012-12-03 17:32:20 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: where we at with 0.7.2 ?
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559 2012-12-03 17:32:48 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: rc2; sipa did a build, I'll have one shortly, but no third person has stepped up to build yet
560 2012-12-03 17:33:21 vampireb has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
561 2012-12-03 17:33:23 <Luke-Jr> apparently we're starving for gitian-capable people these days
562 2012-12-03 17:34:21 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: AFAIK you're still the only one who can build Mac binaries
563 2012-12-03 17:34:22 <gavinandresen> I saw a debian (or was it freebsd...) maintainer complaining about hosting at gitorious; is there a real issue there?
564 2012-12-03 17:34:56 <Luke-Jr> I haven't heard of any issue. link?
565 2012-12-03 17:35:26 <drizztbsd> gitorious maintainer are asses, but the platform works greatly
566 2012-12-03 17:35:35 <Luke-Jr> I could always move or mirror it to github if that's needed or wanted. Or someone could just copy the tag to the master repo.
567 2012-12-03 17:36:14 <gavinandresen> tag should definitely be copied, but the issue was that the gitian builder scripts point to the gitorious repo.
568 2012-12-03 17:36:32 <gavinandresen> (I don't have the link and don't remember what the issue was)
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571 2012-12-03 17:39:23 <gavinandresen> RE: mac builds:  I'm "recompiling the world" on an old 32-bit laptop that I plan on using for builds (I've had chronic issues building 32-bit binaries on my main 64-bit machine)
572 2012-12-03 17:41:58 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: If you gotta Fedora VM, yo I'll manage it
573 2012-12-03 17:42:07 <jgarzik> Check out the beat, while the DJ revolves it
574 2012-12-03 17:43:19 <gavinandresen> "Check out the beat while the DJ revolves it" ???  <-- you're not about to go bezerk again, are you ?
575 2012-12-03 17:43:20 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
576 2012-12-03 17:48:13 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik's lyrics sound like that Chinese food song
577 2012-12-03 17:48:31 <jgarzik> hehehehe
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585 2012-12-03 17:55:57 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I just finished installing debian...
586 2012-12-03 17:56:03 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: let me go grab a fedora iso...
587 2012-12-03 17:56:20 <sipa> gmaxwell: i should probably turn on parallellism in the unit tests
588 2012-12-03 17:56:31 <sipa> as they probably only use the single-threaded verification now
589 2012-12-03 18:00:13 <sipa> gmaxwell: also because you didn't have enough combinations to test already, i added a commit that could improve things a bit further
590 2012-12-03 18:01:05 libcoin has joined
591 2012-12-03 18:04:31 <BlueMatt> so apparently there is no fedora server iso, what if I dont want a damn gui to install a server os?
592 2012-12-03 18:04:52 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: That's Ice Ice Baby :)
593 2012-12-03 18:04:55 <jgarzik> a classic
594 2012-12-03 18:04:56 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
595 2012-12-03 18:05:14 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: kickstart is the standard method
596 2012-12-03 18:05:30 molecular has joined
597 2012-12-03 18:05:42 * BlueMatt knows nothing about fedora...kickstart?
598 2012-12-03 18:05:42 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: Rice Rice *
599 2012-12-03 18:05:48 <BlueMatt> how does one get to kickstart?
600 2012-12-03 18:06:13 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: google search string "fedora kickstart"
601 2012-12-03 18:06:32 * BlueMatt was hoping for a more simple cntl-alt-f2 + kickstart
602 2012-12-03 18:06:40 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: I was trying to think of a bitcoin-related permutation, but failed
603 2012-12-03 18:07:05 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
604 2012-12-03 18:07:14 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: check out the bits while the miners hash them?
605 2012-12-03 18:08:26 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: pretty good :)
606 2012-12-03 18:08:32 <jgarzik> need a chorus though
607 2012-12-03 18:08:38 <jgarzik> hash hash baby?
608 2012-12-03 18:09:53 skeledrew has joined
609 2012-12-03 18:10:14 <Luke-Jr> hm
610 2012-12-03 18:10:56 <Luke-Jr> is it just me, or does 1 round of badblocks non-destructive r/w test take longer than 4 rounds of the destructive r/w test? :/
611 2012-12-03 18:11:54 <BurtyB> BlueMatt, if you want a server why not just install something like centos rather than a desktop distro?
612 2012-12-03 18:12:13 <BlueMatt> BurtyB: I dunno, jgarzik is the one who asked for fedora...
613 2012-12-03 18:12:42 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: badblocks is pointless on modern hard drives
614 2012-12-03 18:12:58 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: crap, I just wasted the last 3 days then
615 2012-12-03 18:12:59 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: just "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/HARD_DRIVE bs=1M"
616 2012-12-03 18:13:09 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: that will force replacement of any bad sectors
617 2012-12-03 18:13:22 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: I wanted to know if there *were* any so I know which NAS to ship  back to NewEgg
618 2012-12-03 18:14:06 <Luke-Jr> (also, that will definitely be destructive…)
619 2012-12-03 18:14:18 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: smartctl -d ata -a /dev/HARD_DRIVE
620 2012-12-03 18:14:31 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: possibly after a: smartctl -d ata -t long /dev/HARD_DRIVE
621 2012-12-03 18:17:31 remiforall has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
622 2012-12-03 18:21:41 remiforall has joined
623 2012-12-03 18:22:39 asa1024 has quit (Quit: asa1024)
624 2012-12-03 18:23:39 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: what bytes-per-inode do you recommend? :P
625 2012-12-03 18:23:56 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: the default that mkfs gives you :)
626 2012-12-03 18:24:16 <Luke-Jr> eh, that's always way too many inodes <.<
627 2012-12-03 18:25:01 AnttiM has joined
628 2012-12-03 18:26:23 denisx has joined
629 2012-12-03 18:27:13 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: fuck it, Ill send you a vnc booted into a fedora iso...
630 2012-12-03 18:28:29 <Luke-Jr> lol
631 2012-12-03 18:28:34 <jgarzik> BlueMatt, gavinandresen: Am I setting up testnet and mainnet nodes, or just testnet?  And, is CPU mining permitted?
632 2012-12-03 18:28:46 <BlueMatt> whatever, and yes
633 2012-12-03 18:29:18 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: RE flaming the trolls...  this is why I am not a board member or project leader.  So that I can have a cathartic flamewar every now and again :)
634 2012-12-03 18:29:19 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: I'd say don't CPU mine with more than one core, though.
635 2012-12-03 18:29:24 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: agreed
636 2012-12-03 18:29:26 <BlueMatt> the vm only has one core
637 2012-12-03 18:29:35 <jgarzik> us4.exmulti.net (my testnet node) only mines on 1 core
638 2012-12-03 18:29:47 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: flame on!
639 2012-12-03 18:30:34 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: if I'm mining, I'd say you would want 2 cores?
640 2012-12-03 18:30:35 <sipa> gmaxwell: any further benchmark results?
641 2012-12-03 18:30:43 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: did you give the jenkins VM more than one core?
642 2012-12-03 18:30:50 <BlueMatt> jenkins has 12
643 2012-12-03 18:30:53 maaku has joined
644 2012-12-03 18:30:55 freakazoid has joined
645 2012-12-03 18:31:02 <gavinandresen> cool.
646 2012-12-03 18:31:04 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: btw, how serious do you consider the "test_bitcoin overwrites start of blk0001.dat with genesis block" bug in 0.7.x? sometime to do a rc3 for?
647 2012-12-03 18:31:10 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: fair enough, 2 it is
648 2012-12-03 18:31:10 <Luke-Jr> something*
649 2012-12-03 18:31:19 <sipa> Luke-Jr: that bug does not exist in 0.7.x
650 2012-12-03 18:31:29 <sipa> Luke-Jr: in 0.7.x it was *append* to the last block file
651 2012-12-03 18:31:30 <Luke-Jr> sipa: oh, I thought you said it did <.<
652 2012-12-03 18:31:48 <sipa> which i also consider a bug, but not a particularly worrysome one
653 2012-12-03 18:32:00 <Luke-Jr> ah
654 2012-12-03 18:35:11 <gmaxwell> sipa: I ran a w/o hal run last night and posted on the hal pull request, but nothing since.
655 2012-12-03 18:35:20 * gmaxwell goes to look at your latest pulls.
656 2012-12-03 18:38:05 <Pucilowski> What's the purpose of the WIF?
657 2012-12-03 18:38:06 copumpkin has joined
658 2012-12-03 18:38:16 <jgarzik> to smell
659 2012-12-03 18:39:48 imsaguy has joined
660 2012-12-03 18:41:40 TD has joined
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662 2012-12-03 18:54:51 maaku has joined
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664 2012-12-03 19:03:03 libcoin1 has joined
665 2012-12-03 19:03:03 libcoin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
666 2012-12-03 19:04:12 graingert has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat-GNOME)
667 2012-12-03 19:04:14 robocoin has quit (Quit: !)/ヽ(´ー｀)ノ\(!)
668 2012-12-03 19:05:19 <gmaxwell> sipa: oh.. it's crashing now.
669 2012-12-03 19:06:54 <gmaxwell> but I think not due to the latest change, but due to corruption during my stops and restarts.
670 2012-12-03 19:07:16 <gmaxwell> yea...
671 2012-12-03 19:07:17 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
672 2012-12-03 19:07:17 <gmaxwell> LoadBlockIndexDB () at main.cpp:2484
673 2012-12-03 19:07:18 <gmaxwell> 2484        hashBestChain = pindexBest->GetBlockHash();
674 2012-12-03 19:07:31 <gmaxwell> (gdb) p pindexBest
675 2012-12-03 19:07:31 <gmaxwell> $1 = (CBlockIndex *) 0x0
676 2012-12-03 19:07:47 agricocb has joined
677 2012-12-03 19:07:53 <gmaxwell> last thing in the debug.log is
678 2012-12-03 19:07:53 <gmaxwell> 12/03/12 18:54:21 LoadBlockIndex(): last block file = 0
679 2012-12-03 19:07:53 <gmaxwell> 12/03/12 18:54:21 LoadBlockIndex(): last block file: CBlockFileInfo(blocks=119965, size=134214363, heights=0..119964, time=2009-01-03..2011-04-24)
680 2012-12-03 19:08:31 <gmaxwell> I'm not sure how the blockfile stuff got screwed up.. that was synced all the way last night. :-/
681 2012-12-03 19:09:17 <gmaxwell> Unfortunately I deleted the log before trying the test run, so I don't have any evidence of how the corruption happened, but the segfault is probably worth fixing. :P
682 2012-12-03 19:09:42 <gmaxwell> out of time now…
683 2012-12-03 19:13:41 maaku has joined
684 2012-12-03 19:16:43 freakazoid has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
685 2012-12-03 19:19:50 <sipa> gmaxwell: bug in -reindex, but harmless, except for that message
686 2012-12-03 19:20:38 <gmaxwell> hm? I'm not reindexing now. And a segfault isn't harmless! :P
687 2012-12-03 19:20:50 <sipa> gmaxwell: and that segfault probably means you're not running the nocoins patch
688 2012-12-03 19:21:38 <gmaxwell> oh crap. sorry. this is what I get when trying to slip in something between projects.
689 2012-12-03 19:22:44 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
690 2012-12-03 19:22:46 <gmaxwell> yes, that was the case. You can ignore me now.
691 2012-12-03 19:24:53 sacredchao has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
692 2012-12-03 19:26:21 edcba_ has joined
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694 2012-12-03 19:28:28 edcba has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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696 2012-12-03 19:32:29 freakazoid has joined
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698 2012-12-03 19:33:36 <sipa> gmaxwell: anyway, so far no evidence to support the theory that batch processing per thread slows down?
699 2012-12-03 19:34:27 <sipa> because on other OS'es, switching overhead may be higher, in which case it may be useful still
700 2012-12-03 19:41:02 <gmaxwell> No, nothing suggests to me that it slows it down. Interesting point wrt other OSes.
701 2012-12-03 19:41:03 Perlboy has left ("Leaving")
702 2012-12-03 19:44:52 <sipa> essentially what this mechanism should cause, is all threads doing 16-job batches, then 1 8-job batch, 1 4, 1 2, 1 1
703 2012-12-03 19:45:21 <sipa> so you get smaller jobs at the end of the queue, hopefully causing all jobs to stop approximately simultaneously
704 2012-12-03 19:45:32 D34TH has joined
705 2012-12-03 19:45:32 D34TH has quit (Changing host)
706 2012-12-03 19:45:32 D34TH has joined
707 2012-12-03 19:45:52 <sipa> *all threads
708 2012-12-03 19:47:14 ThomasV has joined
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710 2012-12-03 19:49:51 owowo has joined
711 2012-12-03 19:50:20 <owowo> !diff
712 2012-12-03 19:50:20 <BCBot2`> owowo: Error: "diff" is not a valid command.
713 2012-12-03 19:50:20 <gribble> 3438908.9601591383
714 2012-12-03 19:50:40 <owowo> ups, wrong channel ;o)
715 2012-12-03 19:53:13 owowo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
716 2012-12-03 19:54:19 JStoker has joined
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722 2012-12-03 20:11:16 <Pucilowski> Is any 256 bit value a valid bitcoin private key?
723 2012-12-03 20:11:48 <gmaxwell> No. Not quite.
724 2012-12-03 20:14:13 <sipa> Well, almost.
725 2012-12-03 20:14:27 <forrestv> Pucilowski, i believe anything in the range [1, 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFEBAAEDCE6AF48A03BBFD25E8CD0364141] is valid
726 2012-12-03 20:15:12 <sipa> which means that any randomly generated 256-bit number has a chance of around 1 in 2^128 to not be valid
727 2012-12-03 20:16:10 <Pucilowski> so thats half as many keys?
728 2012-12-03 20:16:30 <Pucilowski> not half, but 2^128 fewer
729 2012-12-03 20:16:55 <gmaxwell> sipa: ::nods:: though I expect that among people wondering if any value is valid the density of parties using uniform RNGs is lower and the density of people potentially sending 0 is higher. :P
730 2012-12-03 20:17:40 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
731 2012-12-03 20:17:52 <gmaxwell> Pucilowski: uh no. 2^255 is half of 2^256.
732 2012-12-03 20:17:56 <sipa> gmaxwell: and people trying 2^256-1 (also invalid) is maybe higher as well
733 2012-12-03 20:18:12 <Pucilowski> yeah, I correct myself the line below
734 2012-12-03 20:18:57 <Pucilowski> thats a lot smaller of a number than 2^256
735 2012-12-03 20:19:37 <sipa> quite so :D
736 2012-12-03 20:20:11 <sipa> so: the vast majority of all 256-bit numbers are valid keys, but not all of them
737 2012-12-03 20:21:00 <gmaxwell> 12/03/12 19:10:19 SetBestChain: new best=00000000839a8e6886ab5951d76f411475428afc90947ee320161bbf18eb6048  height=1  work=8590065666  tx=2  date=01/09/09 02:54:25
738 2012-12-03 20:21:03 <gmaxwell> 12/03/12 19:47:27 SetBestChain: new best=000000000000048b95347e83192f69cf0366076336c639f9b7228e9ba171342e  height=210000  work=628963747775700992096  tx=9344662  date=11/28/12 15:24:38
739 2012-12-03 20:21:13 drizztbsd has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
740 2012-12-03 20:21:24 <sipa> 37:08...
741 2012-12-03 20:21:41 <gmaxwell> thats par8/hal/latest parallel/coins
742 2012-12-03 20:22:16 <topace> what GUI client supports multi-sig transactions?
743 2012-12-03 20:22:55 <gmaxwell> sipa: seems like its the same/very slightly faster than the prior parallel patch. (again, probably better on hosts with slower sync primitives)
744 2012-12-03 20:23:17 <gmaxwell> topace: bitcoin-qt supports them, but you need to use the integrated console. It doesn't have a GUI for them.
745 2012-12-03 20:23:30 <gmaxwell> It's a little hard to write a gui for them before people are actually using them.
746 2012-12-03 20:23:40 <topace> heh
747 2012-12-03 20:24:18 <topace> the console just lets you issue rpc commands? so it'd be the same as running -daemon (or -server ) and doing it from the command line?
748 2012-12-03 20:24:32 <sipa> yes
749 2012-12-03 20:24:45 <sipa> and the console even works without -server
750 2012-12-03 20:24:58 <topace> right, but its essentially the same thing
751 2012-12-03 20:24:59 <gmaxwell> yea, it's just a little easier to get to for most gui users.
752 2012-12-03 20:25:03 <sipa> -daemon has nothing to do with it, that just bavkgrounds the process
753 2012-12-03 20:25:33 <gmaxwell> (try talking a random windows users through getting to the CLI... takes about 30 minutes before you even get to actually doing something with it)
754 2012-12-03 20:29:45 <sipa> gmaxwell: well, 2 seconds isn't really significant, but the code uses one thread less, so i see no reason not to use it
755 2012-12-03 20:30:17 freakazoid has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
756 2012-12-03 20:31:18 <sipa> it would also be good to know that having a thread for every HT unit doesn't hurt, as it makes autoconfig easier
757 2012-12-03 20:31:37 <sipa> on your system it even seems to help
758 2012-12-03 20:32:25 <sipa> i wonder whether changing the max batch size to let's say 1000 would have a measurable impact
759 2012-12-03 20:32:28 <gmaxwell> Yea. I can do another par=4 run to see if it still acts that way esp now that we have a worker in the waiting thread.
760 2012-12-03 20:33:10 <gmaxwell> Shall I try that now, or a par=4 run first?
761 2012-12-03 20:34:06 <sipa> try the 1000, that's less similar to what we've already done?
762 2012-12-03 20:35:04 flatfly has joined
763 2012-12-03 20:35:05 <sipa> in theory, it shouldn't hurt, as the exponentially decreasing job sizes at the end of the queue should prevent large variances
764 2012-12-03 20:36:59 <gmaxwell> Running.
765 2012-12-03 20:38:19 daybyter has joined
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767 2012-12-03 20:42:46 <midnightmagic> hah I just explained the core nature of the blockchain to someone inside of about 15 minutes and he grokked it instantly.
768 2012-12-03 20:42:58 <midnightmagic> in IM.
769 2012-12-03 20:43:08 <midnightmagic> new record.
770 2012-12-03 20:45:14 Connected has joined
771 2012-12-03 20:45:44 <sipa> gmaxwell: 1000 is practically unlimited, as i don't think there are blocks with more than 3-4 thousand (actual) sigops, and it would be divided by a number between 8 and 16
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794 2012-12-03 21:35:12 <Tykling> does anyone know if this error in db.log can be fixed or if I have to delete everything (except wallet.dat) and download again ?
795 2012-12-03 21:35:23 <Tykling> the error: http://pastebin.com/K8xkkPRY
796 2012-12-03 21:36:04 <Tykling> the server was shut down unexpectedly due to power issues and since then I've been unable to start bitcoind
797 2012-12-03 21:39:46 <helo> ouch :/
798 2012-12-03 21:40:28 <helo> you can probably salvage blk????.dat and just -loadblock them
799 2012-12-03 21:40:52 <helo> that will still take hours to recover though
800 2012-12-03 21:41:57 asa1024 has joined
801 2012-12-03 21:43:24 <jgarzik> Tykling: it is possible to recover
802 2012-12-03 21:44:15 <jgarzik> Tykling: but as helo indicates, it is probably easiest to simply delete blkindex.dat, and re-import with -loadblock
803 2012-12-03 21:44:29 <jgarzik> make sure to rename blk000?.dat to something else first
804 2012-12-03 21:44:51 JDuke128 has joined
805 2012-12-03 21:45:56 <Tykling> I have backups, so I am considering importing one from the previous day
806 2012-12-03 21:46:00 <Tykling> might be faster
807 2012-12-03 21:46:10 <helo> definitely
808 2012-12-03 21:46:30 maaku has joined
809 2012-12-03 21:55:23 <Luke-Jr> yay, 22 GB extra from mkfs.ext3 -i 32768 :P
810 2012-12-03 21:59:23 vampireb has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
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815 2012-12-03 22:06:50 <EasyAt> Heya, how bad is it to have a wallet copied onto two hard drives?  I made some tx's a few days ago with one machine.  Now, I am looking at the wallet on the other machine, would my account balence be updated(from scanning) even though txs were made on another machine?
816 2012-12-03 22:08:57 <sipa> you can do this, but it's not supported
817 2012-12-03 22:09:11 <sipa> it *should* be safe, but if things go wrong, it may corrupt your wallet
818 2012-12-03 22:10:30 <EasyAt> Well, my wallet appears to be fine. qt is showing a list of past trtansaction and a balence that is larger than I expected.  When I tried to transfer all the coins out of it, the transaction doesn't appear to have broadcasted(blockchain doesn't have the tx hash)
819 2012-12-03 22:10:40 <gmaxwell> 12/03/12 20:24:10 SetBestChain: new best=00000000839a8e6886ab5951d76f411475428afc90947ee320161bbf18eb6048  height=1  work=8590065666  tx=2  date=01/09/09 02:54:25
820 2012-12-03 22:10:43 <gmaxwell> 12/03/12 21:01:16 SetBestChain: new best=000000000000048b95347e83192f69cf0366076336c639f9b7228e9ba171342e  height=210000  work=628963747775700992096  tx=9344662  date=11/28/12 15:24:38
821 2012-12-03 22:10:44 <EasyAt> I also checked double spends and did not see it there
822 2012-12-03 22:10:59 <sipa> gmaxwell: 37:06, new record!
823 2012-12-03 22:11:51 <sipa> EasyAt: the basic rule is this: if you spend from one wallet, and wait until all transactions made are shown by the other client, there is no problem
824 2012-12-03 22:12:01 <EasyAt> Hm, that should be the case
825 2012-12-03 22:12:15 <EasyAt> Perhaps I should backup and then try and remove all transactions from the wallet?
826 2012-12-03 22:12:25 <sipa> you can't remove transactions
827 2012-12-03 22:12:35 <EasyAt> I thought the wallet caches txs
828 2012-12-03 22:12:42 <EasyAt> the one's that it displays
829 2012-12-03 22:14:00 <sipa> yes
830 2012-12-03 22:14:57 <sipa> gmaxwell: so... i think the N/(1+total+idle) rule works very well :)
831 2012-12-03 22:15:35 <EasyAt> So, its calcing my balence based off of those.  Since one of the transaction appears not to be broadcasting, it'd be nice to remove it from the wallet so I can try and reissue it
832 2012-12-03 22:15:45 <EasyAt> err.. right?
833 2012-12-03 22:15:58 <sipa> why does it seem not to be broadcasting?
834 2012-12-03 22:16:15 <sipa> ah, blockchain.info doesn't know about
835 2012-12-03 22:16:25 <sipa> it will rebroadcast automatically +- once every half hour
836 2012-12-03 22:17:01 ovidiusoft has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
837 2012-12-03 22:17:10 <EasyAt> Okay, thank you
838 2012-12-03 22:17:32 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
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840 2012-12-03 22:22:05 MobiusL has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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848 2012-12-03 22:38:46 <jgarzik> w00t
849 2012-12-03 22:38:59 <jgarzik> libccoin now signs transactions
850 2012-12-03 22:39:22 <jgarzik> handling reorgs is the last big todo
851 2012-12-03 22:39:32 <sipa> gmaxwell: anything else we should try?
852 2012-12-03 22:40:33 <gmaxwell> I still need to try goofing with the caching stuff. I guess I'll test that next.
853 2012-12-03 22:40:48 <sipa> caching stuff?
854 2012-12-03 22:40:54 <gmaxwell> the signature caching.
855 2012-12-03 22:40:58 <sipa> oh, yes
856 2012-12-03 22:41:13 <gmaxwell> Also, this needs to be wired up to cpu detection— don't we have that for mining?
857 2012-12-03 22:42:09 <sipa> yup boost:thread::hardware_concurrency()
858 2012-12-03 22:43:12 * jgarzik wonder how that fares WRT HyperThreading
859 2012-12-03 22:43:15 <jgarzik> *wonders
860 2012-12-03 22:43:34 <sipa> jgarzik: gmaxwell so far has been seeing better performance with 8 verifier threads than 4
861 2012-12-03 22:48:05 <jgarzik> IIRC HT means you have N execution units with N*2 hardware states/register sets
862 2012-12-03 22:48:20 <sipa> correct
863 2012-12-03 22:49:04 <sipa> and boost::thread::hardware_concurrency() returns 2*N then
864 2012-12-03 22:49:43 <sipa> and at least in case of gmaxwell's CPU (where N=4), 8 verifier threads seems (slightly) faster then 4
865 2012-12-03 22:50:29 <gmaxwell> well thats on some of the latest intel stuff, which has HT which sucks less than their last attempt.
866 2012-12-03 22:50:52 <gmaxwell> so it still might be horrible on something out there, but oh well.
867 2012-12-03 22:52:43 * sipa things we will very quickly see requests for CPU throttling...
868 2012-12-03 22:52:54 <sipa> *thinks
869 2012-12-03 22:53:46 <jgarzik> a max threads CLI option is common and seems fair
870 2012-12-03 22:53:56 <jgarzik> people with VMs might care
871 2012-12-03 22:54:17 <phantomcircuit> sipa, nice
872 2012-12-03 22:54:18 <phantomcircuit> lawl
873 2012-12-03 22:54:21 <sipa> jgarzik: currently there is just -par=N in the pull request, and the default is 1
874 2012-12-03 22:56:43 rlifchitz has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
875 2012-12-03 22:58:30 <sipa> gmaxwell: any chance to run it on your 32-core system? :p
876 2012-12-03 23:06:39 <Impaler> anyone have the link for dependencies for bitcoin?
877 2012-12-03 23:07:25 <Impaler> their are packages of all the neassary dependencies someware but its impossible to google for them
878 2012-12-03 23:08:22 <doublec> Impaler: they're listed in the docs directory of the source
879 2012-12-03 23:08:31 <gmaxwell> sipa: eventually par should default to zero which means auto. :)
880 2012-12-03 23:08:37 <sipa> gmaxwell: ack
881 2012-12-03 23:08:39 <Impaler> listed but is their a download?
882 2012-12-03 23:08:53 <sipa> for which OS?
883 2012-12-03 23:09:02 <sipa> and just binarier, or their sources?
884 2012-12-03 23:09:06 rlifchitz has joined
885 2012-12-03 23:09:12 <gmaxwell> doublec: debian/ubuntu package names are listed IIRC. little annoying if you're not on those and don't know that "ssl" is "openssl" elsewhere, etc.
886 2012-12-03 23:09:14 <sipa> and for compilation, or just runtime dependencies?
887 2012-12-03 23:09:43 <doublec> gmaxwell: true, I'm not running debian/ubuntu so I can relate to that
888 2012-12-03 23:09:50 <Impaler> I'm sure their is a consolidated dependency package made for bitcoin
889 2012-12-03 23:10:00 <gmaxwell> doublec: what do you run, in any case?
890 2012-12-03 23:10:02 <Impaler> compilation
891 2012-12-03 23:10:08 <doublec> gmaxwell: gentoo
892 2012-12-03 23:10:28 <gmaxwell> doublec: I like that on my itanium. I expect that I'll end up there on my desktop eventually.
893 2012-12-03 23:10:45 <Impaler> I'm using Qt Creator on Windows
894 2012-12-03 23:10:47 <doublec> gmaxwell: I wanted a rolling distro - or as close to one as possible - and gentoo seemed the choice there
895 2012-12-03 23:10:50 <sipa> gmaxwell: any reason to assume the current parallel code is not the best yet?
896 2012-12-03 23:11:10 <gmaxwell> sipa: current meaning with or without the 16 -> 1000 change?
897 2012-12-03 23:11:32 <sipa> without, but i think i'll increase the limit if it doesn't hurt
898 2012-12-03 23:11:48 <gmaxwell> yea, didn't seem to hurt, may help on windows/mac.
899 2012-12-03 23:12:04 <sipa> i mean, this is the 3rd version of the parallel code, and afaik there have been slight improvements in performance each time, but never significant
900 2012-12-03 23:12:51 <sipa> 128 would correspond to +- 0.1s on common systems; i don't think work units longer than that make any sense
901 2012-12-03 23:12:52 BCBot2` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
902 2012-12-03 23:14:16 <sipa> gmaxwell: by the way, what CPU% usage do you see?
903 2012-12-03 23:14:38 <gmaxwell> sipa: looks like htop is normally claiming somehting like 85% which sounds rather low.
904 2012-12-03 23:15:21 <sipa> well all the time spent reading blocks from disk, and synchronizing runs single-threaded
905 2012-12-03 23:15:41 <sipa> though i wouldn't expect those to be very slow on tmpfs :D
906 2012-12-03 23:16:31 <sipa> still, each time waiting until all threads are stopped, and then restarting must have its cost
907 2012-12-03 23:18:08 BCBot2` has joined
908 2012-12-03 23:19:42 <sipa> anyway, no point in trying to optimizing the last 1% out of this; no way we can reach optimum performance with scheme, but it's certainly a vast improvement for a relatively easy change
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913 2012-12-03 23:34:42 <jgarzik> sipa: is the reading of transaction dependencies also parallel?
914 2012-12-03 23:35:07 <sipa> jgarzik: no, but reading the transaction dependencies is parallel with verifying those that have been read
915 2012-12-03 23:36:35 optimator has joined
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918 2012-12-03 23:38:55 <etotheipi_> so it sounds like I should update Armory coin selection:  on load, it should cluster your wallet into groups of addresses that have already been associated, and then treat all those as one pool for evaluating the "input anonymity" of the tx
919 2012-12-03 23:39:32 <optimator> when submitting a block I get "hashMerkleRoot mismatch" can this error be caused by a submitting a "stale" block, or is it saying I calculated something wrong?
920 2012-12-03 23:39:58 harkon has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
921 2012-12-03 23:40:38 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: probably. Thats basically what I suggested and was thinking about doing before I merged the grouping stuff into bitcoin. After doing it and benchmarking it, I'm less convinced wrt the performance. I suppose if you periodically precalculated that would work.
922 2012-12-03 23:41:21 <etotheipi_> so how do you penalize merging of groups?  if you have a group of 3 and a group of 4 addresses, and a transaction would link one from each, it would effectively merge those two groups of addresses, and I guess you'd say that the solution should be penalized for adding the smaller number to the bigger one
923 2012-12-03 23:41:32 <etotheipi_> i.e. - you already have a cluster of 4, now you have made it a cluster of 7
924 2012-12-03 23:41:58 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell: I would cluster the addresses on load, probably not each transaction
925 2012-12-03 23:43:42 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell: though I don't know why the performance would be poor if you were just std::set<> operations
926 2012-12-03 23:43:59 <etotheipi_> I would think it would actually be quite fast... on the order of how many transactions there are relevant to your wallet
927 2012-12-03 23:44:04 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: I burned up some brain cells thinking of that.   My thinking eventually said that minimizing the Lp norm (for some p) over the resulting groups (e.g. after the txn happens) is probably a good thing.
928 2012-12-03 23:44:14 <gmaxwell> er. Lp norm of the resulting group sizes.
929 2012-12-03 23:44:30 <sipa> should amounts be taken into account?
930 2012-12-03 23:44:36 JDuke128 has quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
931 2012-12-03 23:44:59 <gmaxwell> sipa: the problem is that the publicness of an address is not uniform, and its often not related to the values.
932 2012-12-03 23:45:17 <sipa> i.e. is linking two groups that each represent a high amount worse than linking two groups with low amount? (all other things being equal)
933 2012-12-03 23:45:25 <gmaxwell> E.g. someone paying in a constant spray of 1e-8 inputs to 1GMaxwell  (even if thats the only user of 1Gmaxwell ever) should not get linked.
934 2012-12-03 23:45:59 <gmaxwell> I'd think you'd want to make groups more uniform in value all things equal.
935 2012-12-03 23:46:01 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell: wouldn't you want to *increase* Lp norm?
936 2012-12-03 23:46:38 <etotheipi_> ideally all your addresses are unlinked, and your LP norm is just pth-root of the number of addresses
937 2012-12-03 23:46:55 <etotheipi_> oh wait
938 2012-12-03 23:47:58 <etotheipi_> nm, I got it
939 2012-12-03 23:48:13 <etotheipi_> so evaluate the LP norm of the entire address set?
940 2012-12-03 23:48:40 <gmaxwell> well you can compute a change in lp norm without recalculating everything.
941 2012-12-03 23:48:48 <etotheipi_> agreed
942 2012-12-03 23:49:15 <etotheipi_> so why is that slow?
943 2012-12-03 23:49:29 <etotheipi_> I would think that would be very fast... unless you're talking about finding optimal solutions
944 2012-12-03 23:50:00 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: the norm stuff isn't, doing the recursive grouping to get the groups is potentially slow. esp if the wallet has been dos attacked with thousands of tiny inputs.
945 2012-12-03 23:50:41 <sipa> union-find algorithm can be implemented with time O(n*alpha(n)), with alpha = inverse ackerman function
946 2012-12-03 23:50:57 <sipa> which is O(n) for all practically feasible values of n
947 2012-12-03 23:51:35 <etotheipi_> I'm thinking you have a set of sets, and each operation either adds an element to a set, creates a new set, or merges a set
948 2012-12-03 23:51:42 <etotheipi_> *merges two sets
949 2012-12-03 23:51:53 <sipa> etotheipi_: look up union-find
950 2012-12-03 23:52:37 <etotheipi_> sipa: thanks
951 2012-12-03 23:52:44 <sipa> it's very easy to implement
952 2012-12-03 23:52:51 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
953 2012-12-03 23:53:12 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
954 2012-12-03 23:53:28 <sipa> you keep a map from elements to (pointers to) elements, and each set becomes represented by a root of a tree, and all other elements in the tree point upwards
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957 2012-12-03 23:54:48 <D34TH> sipa: if you know what SPDY is what is your opinion on it?
958 2012-12-03 23:55:17 <sipa> D34TH: yes, i know SPDY... but i know little about its details
959 2012-12-03 23:55:27 <sipa> it works nicely though
960 2012-12-03 23:55:30 brwyatt is now known as 1way!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
961 2012-12-03 23:55:42 <D34TH> do you think it would be worth implementing into a pool software?
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963 2012-12-03 23:56:02 <D34TH> no miners support it yet
964 2012-12-03 23:56:17 <D34TH> but it would be kinda cool
965 2012-12-03 23:56:22 <sipa> i don't know enough about the complexity of implementation
966 2012-12-03 23:56:40 <D34TH> i was going to use it to serve work from bitcoind
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