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 13 2012-12-05 00:43:46 * jgarzik perplexed
 14 2012-12-05 00:44:04 * jgarzik connects to P2P nodes, and gets "inv" messages but never "version" or "verack"
 15 2012-12-05 00:45:27 <jgarzik> maybe this is related to shy-client
 16 2012-12-05 00:45:33 <edcba> very old nodes ?
 17 2012-12-05 00:45:38 <jgarzik> maybe my picocoin client should _not_ stuff "version" into the send buffer
 18 2012-12-05 00:45:59 <jgarzik> edcba: am connecting to at least one 0.8 node, and seeing this
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 25 2012-12-05 01:17:55 <jgarzik> ah hah
 26 2012-12-05 01:17:57 <jgarzik> 12/05/12 01:01:37 ProcessMessages(version, 110 bytes) : Exception 'CDataStream::read() : end of data' caught, normally caused by a message being shorter than its stated length
 27 2012-12-05 01:17:58 <jgarzik> 12/05/12 01:01:37 ProcessMessage(version, 110 bytes) FAILED
 28 2012-12-05 01:18:05 <jgarzik> as I suspected
 29 2012-12-05 01:19:45 Guest19209 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 30 2012-12-05 01:19:56 <jgarzik> odd that the code doesn't drop me, for a crazy "version"
 31 2012-12-05 01:20:15 <jgarzik> just pops right into normal messaging mode
 32 2012-12-05 01:27:46 <jgarzik> w00t
 33 2012-12-05 01:28:12 <jgarzik> forgot the hardcoded detail, where "version" encodes/decodes addrTo and addrFrom addresses as MIN_PROTO_VERSION, not PROTO_VERSION
 34 2012-12-05 01:28:19 <jgarzik> possibly worth a code comment
 35 2012-12-05 01:33:36 <jgarzik> interesting
 36 2012-12-05 01:33:48 <jgarzik> we definitely send "inv"... possibly racing with and sending before "verack"
 37 2012-12-05 01:33:52 <jgarzik> that is... unexpected
 38 2012-12-05 01:34:04 <sipa> really?
 39 2012-12-05 01:34:05 <jgarzik> we just spit out "inv" as fast and as soon as possiblew
 40 2012-12-05 01:36:00 BitDev has joined
 41 2012-12-05 01:37:06 <jgarzik> certainly appears that way, but who knows, might be a bug here
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 44 2012-12-05 01:39:59 <BitDev> in Base58Encode as input goes string or array of bytes? (i think second)
 45 2012-12-05 01:41:17 paraipan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 46 2012-12-05 01:41:30 <jgarzik> BitDev: array of bytes
 47 2012-12-05 01:42:13 pacpac has joined
 48 2012-12-05 01:43:42 <BitDev> in EncodeBase58 at while (bn > bn0)  first loop goes out, so from 1 round its goes out - its normal?
 49 2012-12-05 01:45:04 <BitDev> i think not
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 53 2012-12-05 01:51:47 <sipa> you know what bn0 is?
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 55 2012-12-05 02:01:44 <BitDev> marker of end of number
 56 2012-12-05 02:01:48 osmosis has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 57 2012-12-05 02:02:02 <BitDev> i think you understand what i mean
 58 2012-12-05 02:02:15 <BitDev> i found some bugs
 59 2012-12-05 02:05:24 JZavala has joined
 60 2012-12-05 02:05:30 <sipa> such as?
 61 2012-12-05 02:05:38 <BitDev> moment in bignum buffer must go like big endian?
 62 2012-12-05 02:05:58 <BitDev> length of buffer goes like big endian
 63 2012-12-05 02:06:04 <BitDev> but buffer content
 64 2012-12-05 02:06:47 <BitDev> i found in sources answer - yes
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 68 2012-12-05 02:09:54 <BitDev> what function and what file are function that convert public key to bitcoin address?
 69 2012-12-05 02:10:01 <BitDev> maybe someone knows
 70 2012-12-05 02:10:28 <Diablo-D3> BitDev: its described on the wiki
 71 2012-12-05 02:10:40 <Diablo-D3> BitDev: you chop the key to 160? bits and then base58 it
 72 2012-12-05 02:10:56 <BitDev> i know, but not working - want to look how it must be done
 73 2012-12-05 02:10:58 <BitDev> yes
 74 2012-12-05 02:11:06 <BitDev> i do like this
 75 2012-12-05 02:11:07 <BitDev> :
 76 2012-12-05 02:11:45 <BitDev> RIPEMD160(Sha256(compressed public key))
 77 2012-12-05 02:11:55 EPiSKiNG- has joined
 78 2012-12-05 02:12:02 <BitDev> then put 0 at the begining
 79 2012-12-05 02:12:26 <Diablo-D3> shouldnt it be a 1?
 80 2012-12-05 02:12:32 <BitDev> and then Base58Encode with concated checksum (4 bytes)
 81 2012-12-05 02:12:48 <Diablo-D3> BitDev: ask sipa and gmaxwell
 82 2012-12-05 02:12:51 <Diablo-D3> or TD
 83 2012-12-05 02:13:15 <BitDev> if sipa gonna answer me :(
 84 2012-12-05 02:14:35 osmosis has joined
 85 2012-12-05 02:15:33 <sipa> BitDev: take a nice look at the list of source files, and make a guess which one might contain key-related functions
 86 2012-12-05 02:16:00 <sipa> oh, i misread, sorry
 87 2012-12-05 02:16:22 <sipa> addresses and other base58 formats are in base58.h
 88 2012-12-05 02:16:35 xIsaltee has joined
 89 2012-12-05 02:17:30 <sipa> and RIPEMD160(SHA256(compressedpubkey)) is right; then prepend network byte (0x00), then add checksum (4 bytes of double sha256 of everything before), then base58 encode
 90 2012-12-05 02:19:20 <BitDev> hm, so it must be this byte order: [hash160][0] or [0][hash160]?
 91 2012-12-05 02:19:38 <BitDev> if i get it right - first one
 92 2012-12-05 02:19:50 <sipa> prepend means "to put in front"
 93 2012-12-05 02:19:59 <sipa> so first 0x00, then hash160
 94 2012-12-05 02:20:28 xIsalty has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 95 2012-12-05 02:21:13 <Luke-Jr> (but that's the old address format)
 96 2012-12-05 02:22:05 <BitDev> old address format? what is new address format?
 97 2012-12-05 02:22:15 <sipa> i don't think this is the point where we should explain P2SH yet :)
 98 2012-12-05 02:22:48 juchmis has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 99 2012-12-05 02:23:39 <Luke-Jr> BitDev: [5][ripemd160(sha256(scriptRedeem))][checksum]
100 2012-12-05 02:24:33 <BitDev> Luke - thnx!
101 2012-12-05 02:25:12 maaku has joined
102 2012-12-05 02:26:09 <BitDev> i dont know what is scriptRedeem :(
103 2012-12-05 02:26:19 <BitDev> and cant find some info
104 2012-12-05 02:26:33 <sipa> Luke-Jr: you get to explain that to him :p
105 2012-12-05 02:26:39 * sipa -> zZzZ
106 2012-12-05 02:27:11 <Luke-Jr> BitDev: https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=Script
107 2012-12-05 02:27:44 <Diablo-D3> lol
108 2012-12-05 02:27:47 <Diablo-D3> luke fails as usual
109 2012-12-05 02:27:54 <Diablo-D3> BitDev: learn to do it the easy way first
110 2012-12-05 02:27:54 <BitDev> Luke - thnx very much! i will read it
111 2012-12-05 02:28:26 <BitDev> ow yea, its hard way )
112 2012-12-05 02:28:42 <BitDev> and old address will work or not in future?
113 2012-12-05 02:29:01 noagendamarket has joined
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115 2012-12-05 02:29:47 <Luke-Jr> BitDev: build a time machine and find out!
116 2012-12-05 02:29:59 <BitDev> :)
117 2012-12-05 02:30:05 <BitDev> not bad :)
118 2012-12-05 02:30:39 harkon has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
119 2012-12-05 02:30:59 <BitDev> i mean - if my client will use old address format - it will correct work with others new address format clients?
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124 2012-12-05 02:45:31 aethero has joined
125 2012-12-05 02:45:35 <aethero> Any armory devs in here?
126 2012-12-05 02:46:47 bcb has joined
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133 2012-12-05 03:04:36 <hasha> aethero: u can ask etotheipi_
134 2012-12-05 03:05:01 <aethero> etotheipi_ alive?
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145 2012-12-05 03:39:16 [\\\] is now known as \_\_\
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147 2012-12-05 03:39:45 `0 is now known as [\\\]
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154 2012-12-05 04:06:13 maaku has joined
155 2012-12-05 04:06:57 <maaku> was going to ask lindsay but figured I might as well ask here: what size grants will the foundation be giving out?
156 2012-12-05 04:07:07 <maaku> i'm trying to scale my proposal accordingly
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161 2012-12-05 04:24:12 <jgarzik> sipa: RE addrman, comment says "Based on the address range (/16 for IPv4) of source of the information, 32 buckets are selected at random"
162 2012-12-05 04:24:22 <jgarzik> sipa: how many bits used for IPv6?
163 2012-12-05 04:24:26 <jgarzik>  /64?
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167 2012-12-05 04:32:22 <dparrish> anyone know how the work is going to reduce the amount of disk i/o bitcoind does?
168 2012-12-05 04:32:40 <dparrish> it's currently doing 73% of the disk io on my home fileserver :(
169 2012-12-05 04:33:27 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
170 2012-12-05 04:33:40 <denisx> dparrish: there is alot of work in that area
171 2012-12-05 04:33:57 <dparrish> good to know :)
172 2012-12-05 04:34:23 Cory has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
173 2012-12-05 04:35:34 <Hasimir> jgarzik, 128
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178 2012-12-05 04:47:00 <MC1984> damn i remember the last time the price hit 13.37
179 2012-12-05 04:47:01 <MC1984> gaddam
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188 2012-12-05 05:15:17 <maaku> MC1984: I'm waiting for 133.7
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195 2012-12-05 05:50:01 <jgarzik> man
196 2012-12-05 05:50:10 <jgarzik> we sure do pass around a lot of useless, long dead addresses
197 2012-12-05 05:50:35 <jgarzik> and even the mainline client seems to depend on DNS seeds delivering freshness
198 2012-12-05 05:51:00 maaku has joined
199 2012-12-05 05:52:45 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: it works without them, but it can take a while to find good ones.
200 2012-12-05 05:53:04 * jgarzik ponders negative caching -- remembering addresses that _don't_ work, so that picocoin will not forget them, and then receive them again in 'addr', and decide to try them anew
201 2012-12-05 05:53:16 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: it is indeed taking a while :)
202 2012-12-05 05:54:16 * jgarzik has picocoin timeout connect(2) after 30 seconds.  Have 10,000 peer addresses in the database, as exchanged from peers, but have not yet found a single live address.
203 2012-12-05 05:54:27 agricocb has joined
204 2012-12-05 05:54:28 <jgarzik> so, rotating through 8 addresses every 30 seconds
205 2012-12-05 05:55:18 <gmaxwell> and then we find out someone has been attacking the network but we didn't notice. :P
206 2012-12-05 05:55:43 <jgarzik> right now, picocoin aggressively deletes peer addresses, if a single connection attempt fails
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208 2012-12-05 05:56:05 <jgarzik> figuring that it will see new addresses soon enough
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212 2012-12-05 06:03:59 <jgarzik> zero successes after 10 minutes.  that's 160 hosts (10 minutes, 30 second connect timeout, maximum 8 peers being attempted at once)
213 2012-12-05 06:06:05 <jgarzik> Maybe bitcoind should only pass along addresses that (a) it's personally connected to/from, or (b) are totally untried.  Pointedly exclude ones we've tried and failed.
214 2012-12-05 06:06:08 <jgarzik> If we don't already do that.
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224 2012-12-05 06:46:55 <midnightmagic> whoah, what's up with the old version of bitcoind in ubuntu repos?
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229 2012-12-05 06:53:34 <muhoo> is there any signal or interrupt i could register in bitcoind or in some library, to be notified when a transation hits the network that affects one of the addresses in my account?
230 2012-12-05 06:54:07 <muhoo> or, do i have to poll bitcoind continually with json, to watch all the transactions (listtransactions) and manually sort through it looking for new ones?
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234 2012-12-05 07:02:40 <muhoo> in other words, some way i could trigger an interrupt upon these:
235 2012-12-05 07:02:41 <muhoo> CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted bdca803929 (poolsz 188)
236 2012-12-05 07:11:46 <jgarzik> muhoo: -blocknotify
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239 2012-12-05 07:14:16 <jgarzik> sipa, gmaxwell: when implementing Tor... should SOCKS4 or SOCKS5 be implemented?
240 2012-12-05 07:15:45 <Diablo-D3> 5
241 2012-12-05 07:16:03 <Diablo-D3> 4 leaks DNS info
242 2012-12-05 07:16:13 <midnightmagic> 5a?
243 2012-12-05 07:16:16 <Diablo-D3> and tor bitches if you try to connect with a socks4 app
244 2012-12-05 07:16:27 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: you mean 4a?
245 2012-12-05 07:16:34 zeiris has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
246 2012-12-05 07:16:34 <Diablo-D3> still doesnt work for what tor needs
247 2012-12-05 07:16:48 <midnightmagic> ... hrm, no i thought 5a.
248 2012-12-05 07:17:02 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
249 2012-12-05 07:17:13 <Diablo-D3> there isnt one afaik
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253 2012-12-05 07:27:31 <muhoo> jgarzik: thanks!
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256 2012-12-05 07:33:30 <muhoo> jgarzik: hmm, no. that's not right, it only logs a new block, not every new tx
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261 2012-12-05 07:50:16 <jgarzik> muhoo: yes, every new block == each TX, as it is confirmed
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266 2012-12-05 08:07:32 <muhoo> well i looked in the source, and printf("CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted %s (poolsz %"PRIszu")\n",
267 2012-12-05 08:08:02 <muhoo> that's the message. and it doesn't look like anywhere in that function does it trigger the notification
268 2012-12-05 08:08:46 <muhoo> plus i ran it with -blocknotify, and indeed it only notifies of blocks, not transactions. if i were watching for only confirmed transactions, then that'd be what i'd want, sure.  but it isn't what i was looking for
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296 2012-12-05 09:27:02 <sipa> jgarzik: RE: address bucket bits for IPv6: see NetAddr::GetGroup
297 2012-12-05 09:27:03 gjs278 has joined
298 2012-12-05 09:28:16 <sipa> dparrish: 0.8 should do a lot less I/O (and almost only sequential wries)
299 2012-12-05 09:28:50 <sipa> jgarzik: addrman also removes unua
300 2012-12-05 09:29:10 <sipa> unused dead address, but only after ae
301 2012-12-05 09:29:27 <sipa> several attempts, i think
302 2012-12-05 09:29:51 datagutt has joined
303 2012-12-05 09:30:08 <sipa> and aa it mostly tries recent addresses, that takes a long time for old ones
304 2012-12-05 09:30:48 <t7> is leveldb in .8 ?
305 2012-12-05 09:32:31 maaku has quit (Quit: maaku)
306 2012-12-05 09:32:53 <sipa> jgarzik: you need socks4 or socks5 to connect to the outside world, but socks5 is the only one that supports hidden addresses
307 2012-12-05 09:34:10 <sipa> t7: yes
308 2012-12-05 09:41:31 <sipa> jgarzik: socks4a also works
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311 2012-12-05 09:51:58 <denisx> nice, 20% faster sha1 calculatin https://hashcat.net/p12/js-sha1exp_169.pdf
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314 2012-12-05 09:57:36 <_dr> wow
315 2012-12-05 09:59:17 <_dr> denisx: so where can i get/git the kernel for this one? ;)
316 2012-12-05 09:59:40 <denisx> _dr: its only sha1 and not sha256
317 2012-12-05 10:00:54 <_dr> oh :(
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347 2012-12-05 11:50:01 <dparrish> sipa: that's good to hear!
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354 2012-12-05 12:28:08 <jaromil> Diablo-D3: I knew the opposite, that tor over socks5 leaks dns info and socks4a doesn't. are you 100% sure of your information?
355 2012-12-05 12:28:28 <jaromil> I'm not 100% sure about mine.
356 2012-12-05 12:29:57 <sipa> jaromil: socks4 only supports requesting IP addresses as destination, so clients are required to do DNS lookups yourself
357 2012-12-05 12:30:14 <jaromil> ack. I had the wrong info then
358 2012-12-05 12:30:24 <jaromil> but wait, i'm talking about socks4a
359 2012-12-05 12:30:27 <sipa> jaromil: socks4a and socks5 support requesting hostnames as destination, which is good, but there is no way to force clients not do do lookups by themself
360 2012-12-05 12:31:02 <jaromil> that for sure... well there is a way ;) iptables on the router
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377 2012-12-05 13:45:34 <TD_> BlueMatt: hey
378 2012-12-05 13:45:48 TD_ is now known as TD
379 2012-12-05 13:46:01 <TD> BlueMatt: FYI there are some findbugs warnings in your full validation code
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383 2012-12-05 14:22:36 gimme_bottles has joined
384 2012-12-05 14:25:42 <gimme_bottles> i need some testcoins, and since the faucet is down i ask here. the address is n4L1GFod511BK7hbV1pXwLVTMNHUNoMWHA , 1 or 2 coins would be enough, thanks in advance
385 2012-12-05 14:28:15 <slush> gimme_bottles: I sent you few spare coins
386 2012-12-05 14:29:02 <gimme_bottles> thanks a lot
387 2012-12-05 14:29:16 <slush> gimme_bottles: did you say "10-20k would be enough"?
388 2012-12-05 14:29:55 <gimme_bottles> haha, transaction just arrived, i though what?!?
389 2012-12-05 14:30:32 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
390 2012-12-05 14:30:44 <slush> dealing with thousands of coins is much more fun
391 2012-12-05 14:30:46 <gimme_bottles> i'll send them back when i finished testing my app
392 2012-12-05 14:30:56 <slush> no problem, I still have few tens of thousands
393 2012-12-05 14:31:00 <slush> send them to testnet then
394 2012-12-05 14:31:03 Silverion has joined
395 2012-12-05 14:31:06 <gimme_bottles> ok
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398 2012-12-05 14:38:46 MyBits has joined
399 2012-12-05 14:39:59 <MyBits> can some one help me? here is transaction: http://blockexplorer.com/tx/4a5e1e4baab89f3a32518a88c31bc87f618f76673e2cc77ab2127b7afdeda33b  - how to calculate ScriptSig value?
400 2012-12-05 14:40:51 <MyBits> no one knows?
401 2012-12-05 14:43:40 <sipa> scriptsig of which txin?
402 2012-12-05 14:43:51 vampireb has joined
403 2012-12-05 14:44:23 <MyBits> how to calculate this value?
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405 2012-12-05 14:45:56 <sipa> what do you want? the scriptsigs that transaction contains, or the scriptsig a transaction input would need to spend one of the outputs of that transaction?
406 2012-12-05 14:48:05 <MyBits> how to calculate scriptsigs of inputs and how to calculate scriptsigs of outputs points
407 2012-12-05 14:48:22 libcoin has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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409 2012-12-05 14:51:29 <nsdyu> you can Error in this channel log.
410 2012-12-05 14:52:00 <sipa> MyBits: only txins have scriptsigs; txouts have scriptpubkeys (both are scripts, and the name is a bit confusing nowaways)
411 2012-12-05 14:52:12 <sipa> the scripts in outputs are basically just expanded versions of the address sent to
412 2012-12-05 14:52:37 <nsdyu> you can see Error in this channel log.
413 2012-12-05 14:53:31 <sipa> the scripts in inputs provide the data to make the scripts in the outputs they are spending evaluate to true
414 2012-12-05 14:54:02 <sipa> but it's a bit much to explain entirely over chat... try understand the script system first
415 2012-12-05 14:54:36 <MyBits> where can i read about script system?
416 2012-12-05 14:55:06 <nsdyu> sipa every sentence saved double check log
417 2012-12-05 14:55:51 <sipa> MyBits: the wiki has an extensive page about it, but it certainly isn't detailed enough to write your own transaction creation
418 2012-12-05 14:56:01 <sipa> MyBits: if you need that level, go check the source code of any client
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423 2012-12-05 15:05:14 <MC1984> "Half of all app store revenue goes to just 25 developersHalf of all app store revenue goes to just 25 developers"
424 2012-12-05 15:05:25 <MC1984> jesus welcome to the future of computing
425 2012-12-05 15:05:28 EPiSKiNG- has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
426 2012-12-05 15:05:56 <helo> jesus says thanks for the warm welcome
427 2012-12-05 15:07:20 <MC1984> ih i keep posting this shit is the wrong room
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429 2012-12-05 15:12:30 <MyBits> how to create coinbase transaction?
430 2012-12-05 15:12:39 <MyBits> some one know it?
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434 2012-12-05 15:22:05 <MyBits> no one knows?
435 2012-12-05 15:23:59 <BlueMatt> ;;later tell TD thanks, Ill take a look and see what needs fixing
436 2012-12-05 15:23:59 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
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439 2012-12-05 15:31:53 <MyBits> sipa if i get it right if txn is coinbase (mining) in inputs scriptSign - is random value and in outputs is ECDSA signed that value?
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441 2012-12-05 15:33:59 <sipa> outputs never contain signatures; they just state who is allowed to spend it
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443 2012-12-05 15:38:33 <MyBits> sipa how to create this coinbase txn?
444 2012-12-05 15:38:46 <MyBits> i still dont get it
445 2012-12-05 15:39:08 <sipa> any byte sequence that doesn't break any rules is good :)
446 2012-12-05 15:41:42 <MyBits> sipa - tx_in previous_output (hash 0) script length and signature script - how to calculate it?
447 2012-12-05 15:42:16 <sipa> MyBits: i think you really need to understand the big picture before trying to go into those details
448 2012-12-05 15:42:19 gimme_bottles has joined
449 2012-12-05 15:43:10 <MyBits> and how can i see whole picture?
450 2012-12-05 15:43:23 <MyBits> i understand every think except this
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455 2012-12-05 15:55:15 <MyBits> if coinbase txn - then ScriptPubKey is just public key, but i still dont get it - what is ScriptSig in txn_in (inputs)
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458 2012-12-05 16:04:50 <MyBits> i make some research and i found out - then if txn is first one (mining txn) then scriptSign can be anything in inputs and in outputs its public key - that is correct?
459 2012-12-05 16:06:00 <sipa> the first transaction in every block is the coinbase transaction, and it always has exactly one txin (the coinbase), with special values for prevout, and the scriptSig of the coinbase transaction is otherwise ignored (but required to be between 2 and 100 bytes)
460 2012-12-05 16:06:28 <sipa> well... *almost* ignored
461 2012-12-05 16:07:06 <MyBits> so its random value that must be between 2 and 100 bytes long?
462 2012-12-05 16:07:19 <sipa> the scriptSig of the coinbase, yes
463 2012-12-05 16:07:26 <sipa> not random, but arbitrary
464 2012-12-05 16:08:23 <t7> you can put a message in there :3
465 2012-12-05 16:08:26 <MyBits> and what official client puts there - random value?
466 2012-12-05 16:08:29 <MyBits> :)
467 2012-12-05 16:08:55 <gmaxwell> No even arbritary anymore. :)
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469 2012-12-05 16:09:27 <gmaxwell> MyBits: it puts the extranonce in there, a value that gets incremented as it mines to make coinbase txn unique.
470 2012-12-05 16:09:32 <sipa> since v==2 blocks, there is indeed an extra requirement: it must start with the serialized block height
471 2012-12-05 16:09:44 <gmaxwell> ^ and that.
472 2012-12-05 16:10:49 <MyBits> serialized block height? what its mean?
473 2012-12-05 16:11:02 <t7> the binary representation of
474 2012-12-05 16:11:30 <t7> or ascii ?
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476 2012-12-05 16:11:52 <sipa> ascii is a way of encoding text in bytes
477 2012-12-05 16:11:55 <t7> its when you make something suitable for (network) transport
478 2012-12-05 16:12:03 <sipa> not for numbers
479 2012-12-05 16:12:07 <jgarzik> sipa: ACK, thanks for the addrman and Tor/SOCKS info
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481 2012-12-05 16:12:43 <t7> sipa actually its 7 bits :)
482 2012-12-05 16:13:06 <sipa> agree
483 2012-12-05 16:13:12 <sipa> anyway... no it's using a binary encoding
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485 2012-12-05 16:19:12 <MyBits> and sequence in txn header is -1 ?
486 2012-12-05 16:20:07 <sipa> no, 0xFFFFFFFF
487 2012-12-05 16:20:17 <sipa> at least if you want the transaction to be non-replaceable
488 2012-12-05 16:20:51 <MyBits> tnx
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531 2012-12-05 18:01:25 <gavinandresen> sipa luke-jr : my gitian build matched sipa's, lets release:  https://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.7.2/test/?
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535 2012-12-05 18:03:17 <drizztbsd> is 0.7.2 tagged?
536 2012-12-05 18:04:25 <gavinandresen> drizztbsd: I'll push the 0.7.2rc2 tag to github (give luke a hard time for using gitorious for me, please)
537 2012-12-05 18:05:11 <drizztbsd> oh, rc2
538 2012-12-05 18:05:49 molecular has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
539 2012-12-05 18:06:14 <gavinandresen> I expect with 98% probability rc2 will be the final 0.7.2 release.
540 2012-12-05 18:06:37 <sipa> gavinandresen: both linux and win32?
541 2012-12-05 18:06:44 <gavinandresen> sipa: yes, both matched
542 2012-12-05 18:06:49 <sipa> good
543 2012-12-05 18:07:41 <jgarzik_> This is a fun experiment.  picocoin is slowly working through 13,000 hosts that peers have given to it by other peers... while avoiding DNS seeds completely.  So far, haven't found a single working bitcoin host, and have tried just over 1,000.
544 2012-12-05 18:08:08 <jgarzik_> We are really passing a ton of useless addresses around, and keeping them alive too long.
545 2012-12-05 18:08:29 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik_, there's ~400k peers being broadcast
546 2012-12-05 18:08:35 <phantomcircuit> ~4k peers connectable
547 2012-12-05 18:08:39 <jgarzik_> yep
548 2012-12-05 18:08:44 <jgarzik_> I can believe it
549 2012-12-05 18:08:57 <gavinandresen> "patches welcome"
550 2012-12-05 18:09:03 <phantomcircuit> i should start keeping track of who told me about which peer
551 2012-12-05 18:09:07 <gmaxwell> 400k? since when? well I suppose _that_ is an attack. though a somewhat lame one.
552 2012-12-05 18:09:17 <phantomcircuit> i think there's a small number of peers that are throwing round bullshit
553 2012-12-05 18:09:45 <jgarzik_> My initial seeding (DNS seed + connect to 8 + request addresses) only produced just over 14,000 unique addresses.
554 2012-12-05 18:10:12 <jgarzik_> Obviously that is smaller than connecting to -everybody- and requesting addresses, but still.
555 2012-12-05 18:10:34 <phantomcircuit> well maybe not
556 2012-12-05 18:10:37 <sipa> jgarzik_: do you prioritize addresses with a recent timestamp?
557 2012-12-05 18:10:37 <jgarzik_> I think addrman should maybe pass along fewer unknown-quality addresses.
558 2012-12-05 18:10:47 <phantomcircuit> the total number of peers i've seen hasn't signiticantly changed in a while now
559 2012-12-05 18:11:01 <phantomcircuit> so i guess there is just a huge stock of peers that are old or not connectable
560 2012-12-05 18:11:12 <sipa> my seeder considers around 2000 nodes well-reachable
561 2012-12-05 18:11:14 <jgarzik_> sipa: I have a last_ok and last_fail timestamp.  Zero is default for both, if never tried.
562 2012-12-05 18:11:36 <sipa> jgarzik_: i mean the timestamp in the addr packets
563 2012-12-05 18:11:47 <sipa> if that is too old, ignore it
564 2012-12-05 18:11:51 <jgarzik_> sipa: that field appears to be useless
565 2012-12-05 18:12:18 <gmaxwell> Why do you say that?
566 2012-12-05 18:12:45 <jgarzik_> because we assign random values to it
567 2012-12-05 18:13:45 <gmaxwell> jgarzik_: while my memory is failing me, I thought that the randomness was bounded.
568 2012-12-05 18:13:45 <sipa> yes, but we never increment it witgout seeing the node alive, afaik
569 2012-12-05 18:14:34 <jgarzik_> when looking at the network as a whole it still results in some addresses being refreshed needlessly
570 2012-12-05 18:14:42 <gmaxwell> E.g. if you see a really old one you know its really old (or at least the peer is lying, but if it wanted you to not connect to something it could just not tell you about it)
571 2012-12-05 18:15:16 <sipa> well, that is why we need host keys, with the timestamp signed by the host itself
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574 2012-12-05 18:16:59 <jgarzik_> looks like addrman just returns a shuffle of vRandom
575 2012-12-05 18:17:04 <sipa> yes
576 2012-12-05 18:17:10 <jgarzik_> when it should probably filter out old addresses
577 2012-12-05 18:17:29 <sipa> old addresses get filtered out eventually anyway
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581 2012-12-05 18:17:59 <jgarzik_> "eventually" is the problem ;p
582 2012-12-05 18:18:12 <jgarzik_> we should not pass crappy data to others ;p
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591 2012-12-05 18:40:46 <jgarzik_> net: 98.226.154.206 addr(1000 addresses, 164 old)
592 2012-12-05 18:40:46 <jgarzik_> net: 98.226.154.206 message addr
593 2012-12-05 18:40:46 <jgarzik_> net: 98.226.154.206 addr(1000 addresses, 159 old)
594 2012-12-05 18:40:46 <jgarzik_> net: 98.226.154.206 message addr
595 2012-12-05 18:40:46 <jgarzik_> net: 98.226.154.206 addr(500 addresses, 88 old)
596 2012-12-05 18:40:51 <jgarzik_> not quite as bad as I had feared
597 2012-12-05 18:40:57 <jgarzik_> "old" is defined as older than 7 days
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601 2012-12-05 18:51:17 <jgarzik> also quite pleased that picocoin is happily talking to IPv6 nodes
602 2012-12-05 18:51:24 <jgarzik> that part Just Worked(tm)
603 2012-12-05 18:52:48 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: well thats bad, enh? right because if you're not getting old data and the data is still bad then the old exclusion doesn't save you.
604 2012-12-05 18:53:58 <phantomcircuit> there's still a lot of old peers out there
605 2012-12-05 18:54:02 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: having difficulty parsing that
606 2012-12-05 18:54:09 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: we -are- getting old data
607 2012-12-05 18:54:12 <jgarzik> and sending it
608 2012-12-05 18:54:13 <phantomcircuit> they pretty much just give you a random sampling of any peer they have ever heard about
609 2012-12-05 18:56:14 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: I'm saying that if only a small part of your data is old, and you're still slow connecting then excluding old data will not help much with your connection speed.
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611 2012-12-05 18:57:16 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: Yes, the focus on the general problem has narrowed to a smaller, related problem that was noticed
612 2012-12-05 18:58:08 <jgarzik> picocoin's rule of 8 parallel connect(3) w/ 30 second timeout must get much more aggressive, when sorting through the garbage
613 2012-12-05 18:58:36 <jgarzik> Will probably up that to ... 25 parallel connect(2), if no love after startup+30 sec
614 2012-12-05 18:59:22 <jgarzik> But I also wanted to tackle the side problem of remembering, and passing around, too many dead peers for too long
615 2012-12-05 18:59:47 <jgarzik> Fixing picocoin's behavior does not address that general stupidity ;p
616 2012-12-05 19:00:46 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, best way to do it is to have ~100 parallel connection attempts and then drop them when you have your 8 peers
617 2012-12-05 19:02:18 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: not sure where to draw the line.  I know that some networks flag that as abusive behavior.
618 2012-12-05 19:02:39 <phantomcircuit> 100 is about the point at which some home routers basically melt
619 2012-12-05 19:02:39 <jgarzik> Definitely should not do 100 immediately, if you wind up with fresh addresses.
620 2012-12-05 19:02:55 <jgarzik> That's why I like the rule "8 parallel at first, increase if no love"
621 2012-12-05 19:03:02 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, start at 0
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623 2012-12-05 19:03:08 <phantomcircuit> every second try another
624 2012-12-05 19:03:26 <phantomcircuit> most peers will connect in < 1 second
625 2012-12-05 19:03:46 <phantomcircuit> if you have good peer info you'll never get past a dozen connections
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644 2012-12-05 20:19:13 * jgarzik anxiously awaits BlueMatt and TD[gone]'s BIP 37 deployment
645 2012-12-05 20:19:28 <jgarzik> it will be nice to save bandwidth by -not- sending "inv" to those who don't care
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656 2012-12-05 20:58:22 <ciscoftw> who created satoshi dice?
657 2012-12-05 21:00:10 <weex> ciscoftw: you're looking for the programmer?
658 2012-12-05 21:00:46 <ciscoftw> yeah, the dev who created it. its fucking boss!
659 2012-12-05 21:01:58 paraipan has joined
660 2012-12-05 21:02:26 <helo> you will not find many in here who agree
661 2012-12-05 21:04:04 <weex> i'm sure many could code the same thing
662 2012-12-05 21:04:14 <weex> but i have no idea who the coder wasa
663 2012-12-05 21:05:00 <helo> the only hard part is getting a decentralized virtual currency up and running :/
664 2012-12-05 21:05:25 <weex> to create a game like satoshi dice, first you must create the universe
665 2012-12-05 21:05:55 <ciscoftw> its not just the game, its the concepts behind it, regarding his disclousre/verification of secrets etc
666 2012-12-05 21:06:13 <jurov> iirc bitcoin.it details from who erik bought it
667 2012-12-05 21:06:19 <sipa> i think the only innovative thing about SD is their reuse of unconfirmed inputs
668 2012-12-05 21:06:30 <weex> ciscoftw: the secret thing i never saw before some kamikaze site
669 2012-12-05 21:06:44 <weex> what sipa said
670 2012-12-05 21:11:31 <gmaxwell> ciscoftw: there have been _many_ gambling sites with verification.
671 2012-12-05 21:12:25 <gmaxwell> (e.g. http://bitjack21.com/cryptoproof )
672 2012-12-05 21:15:07 <gmaxwell> (or http://ragecoin.appspot.com/  or well pick one— it's pretty common)
673 2012-12-05 21:15:48 <gmaxwell> What most of these schemes can't do is show you that the house isn't mostly playing itself or rigging results for selected patrons, however. Which isn't an important property usually, but some people are confused about that.
674 2012-12-05 21:17:48 bakh has joined
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677 2012-12-05 21:19:24 <ciscoftw> gmaxwell: this is why i find sd interesting
678 2012-12-05 21:21:05 ovidiusoft has quit (Quit: leaving)
679 2012-12-05 21:22:52 <helo> because it may be dishonest despite appearing to be honest?
680 2012-12-05 21:25:45 JDuke256 has joined
681 2012-12-05 21:30:47 Cory has joined
682 2012-12-05 21:31:13 <amiller> i showed some friends satoshidice and everyone flipped out and played it for hours :/
683 2012-12-05 21:31:25 <sipa> you have strange friends!
684 2012-12-05 21:33:02 <Pucilowski> whats the logic behind change addresses? Why can't the change just be sent back to the address the money's coming from
685 2012-12-05 21:33:12 <gmaxwell> ciscoftw: because it's like everything else?
686 2012-12-05 21:33:14 <sipa> Pucilowski: privacy
687 2012-12-05 21:33:29 <gmaxwell> ciscoftw: SD is also in the "most of these schemes can't do" I described.
688 2012-12-05 21:34:23 <helo> Pucilowski: it makes analysis of bitcoin flow and identities much more difficult
689 2012-12-05 21:34:41 <phantomcircuit> amiller, gambling addicts are addicts
690 2012-12-05 21:34:54 <ciscoftw> not sure i understand sd enought to disagree... but it appears it is impossible for house to cheat or have predefined secret key used to identify lucky number
691 2012-12-05 21:37:09 <gmaxwell> ciscoftw: You are reading something into my statement which I did not intend to say.
692 2012-12-05 21:37:41 <sipa> ciscoftw: they could (for one day) tell everyone they lost, and at the same time play the game themself so that it seems the expected number of winnings occur
693 2012-12-05 21:38:09 <gmaxwell> ciscoftw: They know all the future secrets. They can use that knoweldge to generate winning and losing transactions... or to help you generate winning and losing transactions.
694 2012-12-05 21:38:13 <gmaxwell> sipa: interesting point!
695 2012-12-05 21:38:42 <gmaxwell> (the misunderstanding I was speaking to mostly has come up with respect to SD share holders, or people claiming that it couldn't be used for money laundering)
696 2012-12-05 21:40:45 <phantomcircuit> sipa, actually they cant
697 2012-12-05 21:41:02 <phantomcircuit> the txid is used in calculating whether a tx is a winner/loser
698 2012-12-05 21:41:05 occulta has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
699 2012-12-05 21:41:17 <phantomcircuit> they couldn't possibly control that
700 2012-12-05 21:41:25 <sipa> phantomcircuit: but they don need to reveal that for one day
701 2012-12-05 21:41:42 <sipa> they could change the formule one day to "everyone loses, except when we play ourself"
702 2012-12-05 21:41:44 <phantomcircuit> so?
703 2012-12-05 21:41:57 <sipa> it means they can run will the bet income from one day
704 2012-12-05 21:42:06 <phantomcircuit> people know who runs it
705 2012-12-05 21:42:12 <phantomcircuit> i dont think they'd get very far with that
706 2012-12-05 21:42:20 <sipa> well, if you trust who runs it, why the trick with the txid anyway?
707 2012-12-05 21:42:27 <phantomcircuit> especially when you consider the degenerate gamblers who tend to use it...
708 2012-12-05 21:42:40 <sipa> i'm just saying their scheme isn't theoretically perfect
709 2012-12-05 21:42:47 <sipa> not saying that this is a problem in practice
710 2012-12-05 21:42:49 <phantomcircuit> sipa, it limits their stealing to a single 24 hour window
711 2012-12-05 21:42:53 <amiller> if SD says that someone loses who shouldn't have lost, then the would-be loser would be able to prove that it occurred
712 2012-12-05 21:42:59 <sipa> yes, i never claimed otherwise
713 2012-12-05 21:43:10 <phantomcircuit> which is very small compared to how other gambling sites have stolen from people over the course of years
714 2012-12-05 21:43:13 <amiller> they wouldn't be able to resume normal operation the next day
715 2012-12-05 21:43:14 <sipa> but from a perfect scheme i would expect this window to be 0
716 2012-12-05 21:43:35 <phantomcircuit> the window could actually be reduced to a single game
717 2012-12-05 21:43:43 <phantomcircuit> but i dont think anybody cares enough to do that
718 2012-12-05 21:43:46 <amiller> i see they'd only be able to prove it after the 24 hr went by
719 2012-12-05 21:43:50 <phantomcircuit> these are gamblers after all
720 2012-12-05 21:44:31 <ciscoftw> thanks for discussion all
721 2012-12-05 21:45:10 <phantomcircuit> sipa, i think it's far more likely that they're going to screw up and lock you funds away as an unspendable transaction for days/weeks
722 2012-12-05 21:46:11 <sipa> yeah, their use-inputs-for-payout mechanism means they are by themself protected from damage by 51%/finney attacks, but their players aren't
723 2012-12-05 21:48:08 <helo> the txid is used, so can't they permute something in their tx until they get one that will pay them?
724 2012-12-05 21:48:33 <sipa> ?
725 2012-12-05 21:48:49 <sipa> sure, that's exactly what they can do
726 2012-12-05 21:49:31 flatfly has joined
727 2012-12-05 21:50:08 <flatfly> https://spideroak.com/blog/20121205114003-exploit-information-leaks-in-random-numbers-from-python-ruby-and-php
728 2012-12-05 21:50:20 <flatfly> Does this affect the RNG(s) used in Bitcoin in any way?
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731 2012-12-05 21:57:44 <helo> bitcoin doesn't use any of those directly, so first guess is 'no'
732 2012-12-05 21:59:23 <jgarzik> unsigned int CNetAddr::GetByte(int n) const
733 2012-12-05 21:59:23 <jgarzik> {
734 2012-12-05 21:59:23 <jgarzik>     return ip[15-n];
735 2012-12-05 21:59:23 <jgarzik> }
736 2012-12-05 21:59:30 <jgarzik> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh  *facepalm*  *facepalm*
737 2012-12-05 21:59:47 * jgarzik now has to go back and reverse all the offsets in his code
738 2012-12-05 22:00:31 <gmaxwell> I contemplated asking how you were deseralizing the values... I guess I should have!
739 2012-12-05 22:01:44 xIsalty has joined
740 2012-12-05 22:03:02 <sipa> jgarzik: the first rule of bitcoin is to always doubt the byte order :P
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743 2012-12-05 22:05:12 <jgarzik> hehe
744 2012-12-05 22:05:16 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: yep, as soon as exams are done (or TD does it)
745 2012-12-05 22:10:36 <ciscoftw> bluematt: did you create a bitcoin protocol dissector via wireshark?
746 2012-12-05 22:10:54 <BlueMatt> me? no, I had nothing to do with that
747 2012-12-05 22:11:00 <BlueMatt> its a shame the author disappeared
748 2012-12-05 22:11:11 <ciscoftw> yeah it is
749 2012-12-05 22:11:26 <ciscoftw> sux someone else is using your handle
750 2012-12-05 22:11:47 <BlueMatt> where did you see my handle creating it?
751 2012-12-05 22:12:02 <BlueMatt> na, it was done by blueCommand
752 2012-12-05 22:12:09 <ciscoftw> ummmm, ur right my bad
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756 2012-12-05 22:22:01 <sipa> jgarzik, gmaxwell: ACK on #2056?
757 2012-12-05 22:22:47 <sipa> gavinandresen: opinion on #2059, as you've NAK'd benchmarking things in the past?
758 2012-12-05 22:25:01 <gavinandresen> sipa: ack'ed.  I've been tempted in the past to create a little benchmarking class to avoid the repetitive start = gettime(); ....  printf(now-start) ...
759 2012-12-05 22:25:44 <jgarzik> kinda like the CImportingNow class ;p
760 2012-12-05 22:26:06 <gavinandresen> (back later, chauffeuring kids)
761 2012-12-05 22:26:54 <sipa> yes, nothing as fun as overusing RAII :p
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768 2012-12-05 22:48:35 <sipa> off-topic: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1732348/regex-match-open-tags-except-xhtml-self-contained-tags/1732454#1732454
769 2012-12-05 22:49:42 <sipa> " If you parse HTML with regex you are giving in to Them and their blasphemous ways which doom us all to inhuman toil for the One whose Name cannot be expressed in the Basic Multilingual Plane, he comes."
770 2012-12-05 22:56:14 <upb> yes
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772 2012-12-05 23:02:05 <ThomasV> lol
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774 2012-12-05 23:07:26 <nanotube> gavinandresen: so who reviews the grant proposals?
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