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 17 2012-12-22 00:40:27 <da2ce7> dose anyone maintain Visual Studio project files for bitcoin?
 18 2012-12-22 00:41:03 <da2ce7> I've hacked up my own copy of them for bitcoind, however it is going to take lots of work to get bitcoin-qt up and running.
 19 2012-12-22 00:41:27 <da2ce7> just don't want to re-invent the wheel.
 20 2012-12-22 00:41:38 <Luke-Jr> I would expect qmake can produce them
 21 2012-12-22 00:41:48 <da2ce7> hmm.
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 23 2012-12-22 00:48:08 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: I'm curious as to whats motivating that? (and as luke says, hopefully qmake can do it... if not, it's a losing battle)
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 25 2012-12-22 00:49:13 <da2ce7> If I build for Windows RT, I need to use msvc.
 26 2012-12-22 00:49:42 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: mingw-rt.
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 31 2012-12-22 00:54:46 <da2ce7> gmaxwell: the mingw -'rt' is the runtime.
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 33 2012-12-22 00:55:09 <da2ce7> not for the Windows RT (aka walled guardan Windows 8)
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 35 2012-12-22 00:55:23 <gmaxwell> Aww.
 36 2012-12-22 00:55:33 <da2ce7> *Garden
 37 2012-12-22 00:56:04 <gmaxwell> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12909139/can-windows-store-applications-be-built-with-mingw
 38 2012-12-22 00:56:14 <da2ce7> ** walled garden == jail
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 40 2012-12-22 00:57:13 <da2ce7> maybe cbitcoin would be a good option for that...
 41 2012-12-22 00:57:20 <gmaxwell> yea, doesn't sound very conceptually friendly with bitcoin... how do I know a windows-jail build of bitcoin isn't malicious?
 42 2012-12-22 00:58:02 <da2ce7> you wouldn't, but you can mitigate much of the risk with muti-sig
 43 2012-12-22 00:59:28 <gmaxwell> eh. careful. multisig (1) doesn't mitigate systemic risk if its widely deployed, (2) is easily fooled when the malicious software controls almost everything you see... but thats more of a general argument against running _any_ unauditable software, than specifically against that.
 44 2012-12-22 01:04:07 <da2ce7> I think that _some_ people will be able to audit it... being able to download the original package from the windows store, and check it.  Just not the every-day user.
 45 2012-12-22 01:04:31 <da2ce7> there is still DLL's that are made and installed.
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 54 2012-12-22 01:21:57 <da2ce7> ok qmake sort-of works, it generates a broken vs file... lets see if it works if I hack it up.
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 57 2012-12-22 01:32:02 <da2ce7> O.o a complete mess.
 58 2012-12-22 01:34:12 <jrmithdobbs> the bitcoin build process in two words
 59 2012-12-22 01:34:16 <jrmithdobbs> ;p
 60 2012-12-22 01:34:39 <jrmithdobbs> should have used it before qmake
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110 2012-12-22 04:37:40 <andytoshi> hey all, i just compiled bitcoind with llvm-clang 3.2
111 2012-12-22 04:37:52 <andytoshi> which was released yesterday
112 2012-12-22 04:39:08 <Joric> guys how do you rebase pull requests? it becomes ugly after first few hundred of commits
113 2012-12-22 04:39:32 <Joric> i tried rebasing it locally it just appends the rebase commit on top of others
114 2012-12-22 04:45:06 <gmaxwell> if you rebase after pulling onto an already dirty branch thats been merged that won't get you what you want.
115 2012-12-22 04:45:38 <gmaxwell> It's perhaps not the most proper, but I usually reset the branch pull the clean tree onto it, then cherry pick my changes back into it.
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117 2012-12-22 04:46:15 <gmaxwell> though if you have a lot of commits, rebasing _on the branch_ with regular rebase when you haven't pulled the new commits into it with a merge should work.
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120 2012-12-22 04:55:56 <Joric> i know the only way of deleting commits from the remote repository it's git push -f origin HEAD^^
121 2012-12-22 04:56:39 <Joric> when i rebase it just puts all rebased shit in the last commit i want to delete previous edits from the pull request
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123 2012-12-22 04:58:07 <gmaxwell> then squash them while rebasing.
124 2012-12-22 04:58:26 <gmaxwell> if you do the interactive rebase it lets you specify what action should be taken for every rebased commit.
125 2012-12-22 04:58:38 <gmaxwell> You'd squash all but the ultimate one, and on it you'd edit the commit message.
126 2012-12-22 04:58:45 <gmaxwell> then push -f the whole thing up.
127 2012-12-22 05:01:00 <Joric> yeah i do squash but i just get one more commit after that )
128 2012-12-22 05:01:23 <Joric> git rebase -i HEAD~2 -> push -> one more commit in the history )
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135 2012-12-22 05:12:51 <Joric> well i may go back one step git push -f origin HEAD^^ then push but i thought rebase does that itselft
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151 2012-12-22 05:53:32 <andytoshi> clang is warning,
152 2012-12-22 05:53:34 <andytoshi> /home/username/dload/code/bitcoin/src/netbase.h:34:7: warning: Null pointer argument in call to memory copy function
153 2012-12-22 05:53:43 <andytoshi> line 34 is "class CNetAddr"
154 2012-12-22 05:53:48 <andytoshi> what in the world could that mean?
155 2012-12-22 05:56:06 owowo has quit (Quit: sayonara)
156 2012-12-22 06:01:51 <jgarzik> andytoshi: maybe it's referring to IMPLEMENT_SERIALIZE() ?
157 2012-12-22 06:01:56 * jgarzik randomly guesses
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159 2012-12-22 06:05:18 <andytoshi> i guess so...that's the only place in the file anything might be called
160 2012-12-22 06:05:21 <andytoshi> everything else is definitions
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162 2012-12-22 06:08:45 <gmaxwell> andytoshi: run the file through the preprocessor, then compile that and see where the warning is?
163 2012-12-22 06:09:08 <andytoshi> oh, good call
164 2012-12-22 06:09:11 <phantomcircuit> i totally forgot i was still runnign that peer walker
165 2012-12-22 06:09:18 <BTCOxygen> Will a RAM disk speed up the blockchain download?
166 2012-12-22 06:09:24 <gmaxwell> BTCOxygen: yes.
167 2012-12-22 06:09:34 <BTCOxygen> gmaxwell: Thanks
168 2012-12-22 06:09:42 <gmaxwell> well for 0.8 it doesn't make much difference, but it's a very big speedup for older code.
169 2012-12-22 06:10:06 <BTCOxygen> Did 0.8 release?
170 2012-12-22 06:10:34 <BTCOxygen> 7.2 is the latest i see
171 2012-12-22 06:13:02 <gmaxwell> 0.8 meaning the in-development work (you are in #bitcoin-dev, after all)
172 2012-12-22 06:15:05 <BTCOxygen> gmaxwell: Thanks, I will be trying out 0.8 sometime today
173 2012-12-22 06:15:32 <BTCOxygen> Plus i will re-download the blockchain to see the speed improvement you mention
174 2012-12-22 06:18:47 <theymos> I think it'd be pretty easy to replace Bitcoin's use of macros in serialization with templates. That might make errors like andytoshi's more clear.
175 2012-12-22 06:25:07 <Luke-Jr> BTCOxygen: it is not safe to mine with 0.8 yet
176 2012-12-22 06:25:33 <Luke-Jr> theymos: templates tend to make errors less clear :P
177 2012-12-22 06:34:24 <andytoshi> hmm..clang won't run on the preprocessor output for some reason (starts finding errors in system headers all of a sudden)
178 2012-12-22 06:34:39 <andytoshi> if i selectively preprocess the IMPLEMENT_SERIALIZE block, that doesn't change the error
179 2012-12-22 06:36:50 <theymos> Luke-Jr: If you replaced 'READWRITE(FLATDATA(ip));' with something like 'serialize<unsigned char[16]>(out, ip);' (with the template parameter actually being implicit usually), I'd think that any errors would be more clear. If there's an error in 'serialize' you'd (I think) get a line number within the version of the function that is actually called.
180 2012-12-22 06:37:03 <andytoshi> never mind, i was preprocesing the .h file, not the .cpp
181 2012-12-22 06:38:57 <andytoshi> ...i get the exact same error whether or not i preprocess netbase.cpp
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185 2012-12-22 07:13:08 <MC1984> is there any work on the P2P stuff going on
186 2012-12-22 07:13:23 <MC1984> peer efficiency, topology etc
187 2012-12-22 07:14:10 <MC1984> some nat traversal would be nice :(
188 2012-12-22 07:14:51 <MC1984> some sort of grouping behaviour for high bandwidth peers maybe
189 2012-12-22 07:15:46 <MC1984> or is it On The List
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192 2012-12-22 07:21:37 <gmaxwell> MC1984: uh. topology influence has major security risks.
193 2012-12-22 07:22:01 <gmaxwell> we have upnp ... no recent evidence that we need anything more right now wrt nat.
194 2012-12-22 07:22:41 <gmaxwell> the interesting areas is in just doing the initial block download better, making the networking more concurrent, and picking faster peers to pull blocks from.
195 2012-12-22 07:23:01 <MC1984> even some sort of auto-swarming behavior of good nodes? To gradually form a sort of core of the bitcoin network
196 2012-12-22 07:23:17 <MC1984> like peple are probably doing already with -addnode, but more efficient
197 2012-12-22 07:23:21 <gmaxwell> no. thats bad.
198 2012-12-22 07:23:51 <MC1984> why
199 2012-12-22 07:23:52 <gmaxwell> 'efficient' topologies tend to be vulernable ones.
200 2012-12-22 07:24:13 <MC1984> if the "core" got completely compromised somehow, the netowrk would just form another one with whatever is left
201 2012-12-22 07:24:29 <gmaxwell> ...
202 2012-12-22 07:24:33 <MC1984> but in the meantime it should reduce propagation delays?
203 2012-12-22 07:24:54 <gmaxwell> MC1984: what transactions taking a second to appear in your client is problematic for you?
204 2012-12-22 07:25:26 <MC1984> i heard there was a kerfuffle about propagation delay for ome people
205 2012-12-22 07:25:28 <MC1984> miners?
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207 2012-12-22 07:25:41 <gmaxwell> Sounds like personal problems.
208 2012-12-22 07:26:13 <MC1984> well
209 2012-12-22 07:26:25 <MC1984> i suppose this core would probably end up in america.......
210 2012-12-22 07:26:25 <gmaxwell> Lets not go about compromising the security of bitcoin because some niche audience is woried about hypermiling their mining returns. They can freely setup fast hubs to peer with if they really care, and that doesn't reduce security.
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213 2012-12-22 07:27:14 <MC1984> in what specific way does that idea reduce security
214 2012-12-22 07:27:26 <MC1984> im sure it does but im too stupid to see it
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216 2012-12-22 07:28:28 <gmaxwell> You need to give a specific idea instead of a cloud of general comments if you want a specific analysis.
217 2012-12-22 07:29:59 <gmaxwell> But in _general_ adding structure to the network weakens it in two ways: it decreases the min-cut of the graph over most random wirings, so there are fewer links that need to go down before you get a partition, and it tends to allow nodes to self select important locations where they are in a better position to isolate peers or create partitions.
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219 2012-12-22 07:31:16 <MC1984> even when that structure is desined by the network itself according to the capabilities of individual nodes?
220 2012-12-22 07:31:58 <MC1984> i accept your rebuttal, but look at it another way
221 2012-12-22 07:32:28 <gmaxwell> some structures are safer than others but its quite difficult to reason about them, and because of the high fanout it shouldn't be~ any faster in any case.
222 2012-12-22 07:32:52 <gmaxwell> MC1984: because nodes can choose to have 'capabilities' (or lie) to position themselves in preferred places.
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224 2012-12-22 07:33:16 <MC1984> people can and are manually doing connect and addnode anyway for whatever reason they want to, forming a sort of higher teir of the network manually
225 2012-12-22 07:33:28 <gmaxwell> So that insted of picking a peer out of a bigger set you pick out of a smaller set, so an attacker has to run fewer clones to get all your connections.
226 2012-12-22 07:33:43 <gmaxwell> MC1984: yes, and addnodes are in addition to the regular topology so they can't hurt it.
227 2012-12-22 07:34:07 <gmaxwell> and— go back, first you there ought to be a problem worth fixing.
228 2012-12-22 07:34:14 <gmaxwell> s/you//
229 2012-12-22 07:35:03 <gmaxwell> MC1984: manually added connections are interesting precisely because they're manual— you can be pretty confident that they're not sybil attack clones, vs the automatic ones.
230 2012-12-22 07:36:24 <MC1984> what if some actor threw up lots of high BW nodes in strategic places and watched it become the bitcoin core
231 2012-12-22 07:36:34 <MC1984> i just killed bitcoin :(
232 2012-12-22 07:37:27 <gmaxwell> what are you talking about? You drank that methanol laden booze didn't you? :P
233 2012-12-22 07:37:52 <MC1984> fuck its hard and a bit depressing when you want to create something complicated and beautiful and the foremost thought in you mind must at all times be "How will people try to destroy this?"
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235 2012-12-22 07:38:41 <gmaxwell> pfft. The beauty of it is building things that aren't fragile. If postulating malice makes you sad, postulate murphey instead— anything evil can happen through bad luck or incompetence instead.
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237 2012-12-22 07:39:37 <gmaxwell> For example, if nodes preferentially peered with the lowest latency peers you'd have very few peerings crossing the atlantic— and ISP goes out and perhaps europe and the US partition and start building seperate forks.
238 2012-12-22 07:40:27 <MC1984> yes i just realised the latency stuff is a bad bad idea
239 2012-12-22 07:40:46 <MC1984> also i didnt clarify that nodes would verify each others high capabilities
240 2012-12-22 07:40:51 <MC1984> somehow......
241 2012-12-22 07:41:19 <gmaxwell> Even if they did, the attacker just runs good nodes. Easy to do when you're motivated and expect rewards.
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243 2012-12-22 07:41:58 <MC1984> how could a malicious "core" do anything bad though
244 2012-12-22 07:42:33 <MC1984> i also didnt clarify that i wouldnt think all connections would have to be to "known good" nodes
245 2012-12-22 07:42:33 <gmaxwell> uh, someone that can create partitions can do nasty things.
246 2012-12-22 07:42:59 <MC1984> perhaps only 2 of the standard 8 would be selected, rest random?
247 2012-12-22 07:43:36 <gmaxwell> maybe— if you work through it enough you can get something that isn't obviously dangerous. We hope.  But then what good has it done.
248 2012-12-22 07:43:39 <MC1984> im probably implying mroe of a centralisation effect than i really mean by calling it a core
249 2012-12-22 07:43:56 <gmaxwell> Joe random node has no particular need to recieve a transaction in 100ms instead of 300ms.
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251 2012-12-22 07:44:13 <MC1984> yeah
252 2012-12-22 07:44:17 <gmaxwell> If anything making it faster decreases privacy by making graph timing analysis more potent.
253 2012-12-22 07:44:36 <gmaxwell> So perhaps we should instead talk about adding more random forwarding delays.
254 2012-12-22 07:44:45 <MC1984> but the miners/exchangers/big merchant processors might want to group up for common benefit
255 2012-12-22 07:44:55 <gmaxwell> then let them.
256 2012-12-22 07:45:10 <gmaxwell> and by doing that they can add vetted links which add something that nothing automatic can add.
257 2012-12-22 07:45:34 <gmaxwell> — high confidence of not being partionable by a sybil no matter how many nodes they run.
258 2012-12-22 07:46:01 <MC1984> i see
259 2012-12-22 07:46:18 <MC1984> also forgot about that timing attack shit
260 2012-12-22 07:46:19 <gmaxwell> sorry for being ranty, :P I'm tired.
261 2012-12-22 07:46:42 <MC1984> youre no more ranty than normal :P
262 2012-12-22 07:46:51 <gmaxwell> well "use tor". It's only an argument here because I don't think there is a need to improve network latency generally.
263 2012-12-22 07:47:53 <MC1984> maybe not for tx
264 2012-12-22 07:48:05 <MC1984> but i heard blocks were hitting a good half MB regularly now
265 2012-12-22 07:48:34 <gmaxwell> block latency is only important to miners and they can take care of themselves.
266 2012-12-22 07:48:45 <gmaxwell> Most of them are big pools who earn an income on this stuff.
267 2012-12-22 07:49:20 <gmaxwell> p2pool even took care of itself relative to this.
268 2012-12-22 07:49:41 <MC1984> well
269 2012-12-22 07:49:50 <MC1984> that random forwarding delay sounds like a good idea
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271 2012-12-22 07:51:05 <gmaxwell> mean size of the last 100 blocks is 173126 bytes. FWIW
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273 2012-12-22 07:55:04 <gmaxwell> (harmonic mean is only 6153.82 .. we're clearly a long way from maximum txn rate. :P)
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327 2012-12-22 12:09:26 <sipa> 234 non-standard transactions in the last 68000
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330 2012-12-22 12:14:43 <sipa> eh, non-canonical
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405 2012-12-22 17:02:55 <etotheipi_> sipa: I odn't know if you saw the message, but I matched all your test vectors
406 2012-12-22 17:03:00 <etotheipi_> sipa: did you hear back from hal?
407 2012-12-22 17:04:34 <sipa> etotheipi_: not yet
408 2012-12-22 17:04:36 <sipa> yes, i saw it
409 2012-12-22 17:04:42 <andytoshi> i've got a dumb github question..
410 2012-12-22 17:04:47 <sipa> nice
411 2012-12-22 17:04:56 <andytoshi> how do i modify a pull request? can i do a push -f to my branch on github
412 2012-12-22 17:05:01 <andytoshi> or should i do a new request
413 2012-12-22 17:05:45 <sipa> andytoshi: push -f
414 2012-12-22 17:05:52 <andytoshi> cool, thanks
415 2012-12-22 17:06:23 <etotheipi_> sipa: the one thing I didn't do in the test was convert the original seed... how were you doing that?
416 2012-12-22 17:06:36 <sipa> etotheipi_: see BIP32 :)
417 2012-12-22 17:06:36 <etotheipi_> sipa: I simply copied in the first priv key and ran the tests from that
418 2012-12-22 17:06:52 <etotheipi_> has it always been specified there?
419 2012-12-22 17:06:55 <sipa> yes
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421 2012-12-22 17:07:04 <etotheipi_> I thought we/you were leaving that out
422 2012-12-22 17:07:38 <sipa> no, third time i repeat it: conversion seed->masterkey is in bip32; how you generate the seed isn't (bip32 just says "use a PRNG")
423 2012-12-22 17:08:20 <etotheipi_> okay, sorry about that... I thought both those steps were actually one, undecided-so-far step
424 2012-12-22 17:08:44 <sipa> (the reason being that seeds are arbitrary byte strings, while the master key has some structure)
425 2012-12-22 17:09:00 <sipa> so you just need something that can come up with a bytestring
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440 2012-12-22 17:22:02 <sipa> etotheipi_: anyway, nice that the vectors match
441 2012-12-22 17:23:35 <etotheipi_> sipa: so barring any red flags by Hal, are we "done" with this?
442 2012-12-22 17:24:13 <etotheipi_> I probably won't have my wallet format done for a while, but I would like to make sure that nothing major is going to change under me
443 2012-12-22 17:24:58 <sipa> etotheipi_: i suppose i should still post to the dev mailinglist before finalizing, but i'll wait until Hal reacts
444 2012-12-22 17:25:07 <etotheipi_> okay
445 2012-12-22 17:26:15 <sipa> remarkable, a large percentage of non-canonical sigs still come from blockchain.info
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449 2012-12-22 17:50:25 <vazakl> http://arxiv.org/pdf/1212.2142v1.pdf
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454 2012-12-22 18:09:21 <sipa> vazakl: relevance?
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497 2012-12-22 19:50:21 <etotheipi_> sipa: is it okay to share those test vectors?  the HW wallet thread from slush seemed interested in seeing an example crypto implementation of BIP 32
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511 2012-12-22 20:20:13 <sipa> etotheipi_: with a disclaimer it's not final yet
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513 2012-12-22 20:21:26 <etotheipi_> sipa: that's fine... I'm actually just going to point them to the part of my unit-testing code that has the data hardcoded
514 2012-12-22 20:21:39 <etotheipi_> so it won't be all that official-looking
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522 2012-12-22 20:59:39 <sipa> da2ce7_d: serms microsoft more or less intentionally made it hard to port applications to winrt
523 2012-12-22 20:59:54 <sipa> *seems
524 2012-12-22 21:01:36 Lolcust has quit (Quit: Nap time)
525 2012-12-22 21:01:43 <denisx> sipa: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
526 2012-12-22 21:01:59 maaku has joined
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529 2012-12-22 21:03:08 <sipa> denisx: at least the wikipedia page makes it sound like that
530 2012-12-22 21:03:23 <sipa> which may or may not be a neutral point of view :p
531 2012-12-22 21:10:52 <gmaxwell> sipa: windows has been almost 20 years of unending backwards compatiblity. Without knowing the specifics I expect breaking some stuff could only be good for it!
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549 2012-12-22 21:46:17 <midnightmagic> NetBSD has also been backwards-compatible for quite some time.
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564 2012-12-22 22:35:35 bitlane has joined
565 2012-12-22 22:35:42 <bitlane> anybody heard about satan miner
566 2012-12-22 22:35:43 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
567 2012-12-22 22:35:46 <bitlane> still looking for more info
568 2012-12-22 22:37:42 Belkaar has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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576 2012-12-22 22:48:54 <bitlane> okay we or a member of my team will post a link once its discovered
577 2012-12-22 22:49:03 <bitlane> should be of great value
578 2012-12-22 22:49:07 <bitlane> possibly millions!
579 2012-12-22 22:49:10 <bitlane> peace
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588 2012-12-22 23:30:07 <MC1984> satan miner?
589 2012-12-22 23:32:09 <gmaxwell> hm.
590 2012-12-22 23:32:18 <gmaxwell> 20MB free and this node didn't autoshutdown.
591 2012-12-22 23:33:08 <gmaxwell> I wonder if thats how its getting stuck when it runs out of space— it's failing to autoshutdown and corrupting the db.
592 2012-12-22 23:37:08 <sipa> which code?
593 2012-12-22 23:37:34 <sipa> i believe checkdiskspace was broken until recenly
594 2012-12-22 23:38:51 <gmaxwell> looks like it's master on 12/13 plus some more recent pulls.
595 2012-12-22 23:38:58 <gmaxwell> any idea what commit fixed it?
596 2012-12-22 23:39:10 <gmaxwell> well — I think it's unambigious, thats the issue indeed.
597 2012-12-22 23:39:25 <gmaxwell> heh and yet again I find a real bug thats already fixed. :P
598 2012-12-22 23:39:55 <sipa> 622da5df6ec0efc
599 2012-12-22 23:40:12 <sipa> merged on december 7
600 2012-12-22 23:40:15 <sipa> so you should have it
601 2012-12-22 23:42:24 <gmaxwell> hm. I should have. Will test.
602 2012-12-22 23:43:21 <jgarzik> getheaders 160310 to 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
603 2012-12-22 23:43:27 <jgarzik> does bitcoinj use getheaders?
604 2012-12-22 23:43:40 <sipa> yes
605 2012-12-22 23:44:28 Belkaar has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
606 2012-12-22 23:44:52 <gmaxwell> sipa: seems to not be working on a current build. I'll fix.
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