1 2013-01-24 00:01:26 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
  2 2013-01-24 00:03:12 <muhoo> i'm getting a ton of "ERROR: FetchInputs() : df8dabe670 mempool Tx prev not found fb2366df43" etc errors, while waiting for the blockchain to catch up.... very slowly...
  3 2013-01-24 00:03:30 <sipa> don't worry about those
  4 2013-01-24 00:03:51 <muhoo> ok. on december 7th at the moment :-/ i'll let it run another day
  5 2013-01-24 00:03:57 <sipa> which version?
  6 2013-01-24 00:04:01 BTCOxygen has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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  8 2013-01-24 00:06:07 <muhoo>  0.7.1-maverick1
  9 2013-01-24 00:06:23 <sipa> ok, what is your cpu usage?
 10 2013-01-24 00:06:42 <muhoo> minimal, 1.7% for bitcoind (this is an i7)
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 12 2013-01-24 00:07:07 <muhoo> hmm, peaking to 30% cpu when it's actually getting blocks
 13 2013-01-24 00:07:21 <sipa> 30% of one CPU, or of all?
 14 2013-01-24 00:07:23 <gavinandresen> sipa: ark for dinner.  But it is verifying blocks much, much faster now.
 15 2013-01-24 00:07:24 <muhoo> one
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 17 2013-01-24 00:07:35 <gavinandresen> ^ark^afk
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 19 2013-01-24 00:08:40 <muhoo> prolly just slow network, i reckon.
 20 2013-01-24 00:08:49 <muhoo> what's that error though?
 21 2013-01-24 00:09:09 <muhoo> a transaction flying by and bitcoind being unable to make sense of it because its chain is too far  behind?
 22 2013-01-24 00:09:23 <muhoo> just curious
 23 2013-01-24 00:10:18 <muhoo> up to december 9th now. i think it was disk-bound (was running off of an sdcard, moved to a nice fast drive now), and still a bit network bound, atm (comcast).
 24 2013-01-24 00:10:37 reizuki has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 25 2013-01-24 00:10:55 <muhoo> bitcoind does not like running off of an sdcard, at all, at all.
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 27 2013-01-24 00:12:48 <sipa> muhoo: yes, unconfirmed transactions on the network that spend outputs you don't have yet
 28 2013-01-24 00:12:52 <muhoo> ah, that's what that error is: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/5673/debug-log-how-do-i-analyze-an-orphaned-transaction
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 30 2013-01-24 00:13:03 <sipa> muhoo: probably peer-bound and disk-bound
 31 2013-01-24 00:13:03 <muhoo> sipa: thanks
 32 2013-01-24 00:13:21 <sipa> (as in: using a bad peer to sync from slows things down terribly)
 33 2013-01-24 00:13:30 <muhoo> oh? interesting to know.
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 40 2013-01-24 00:22:50 <benkay> if someone sends a bitcoin to a bip32 address (generated with some chain code and my public address), do I need the chain code to sign those coins on again?
 41 2013-01-24 00:22:58 <benkay> -> that coin
 42 2013-01-24 00:23:29 sgornick has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 43 2013-01-24 00:24:43 <sipa> no, you need its private key
 44 2013-01-24 00:25:08 <sipa> benkay: to sign transactions you need a private key, to verify them you need the corresponding public key
 45 2013-01-24 00:25:11 <sipa> benkay: bip32 or deterministic wallets in general don't change that
 46 2013-01-24 00:25:21 <sipa> it only changes how you obtain those private or public keys
 47 2013-01-24 00:25:44 <sipa> "chain codes" are just things inside the bip32 derivation
 48 2013-01-24 00:25:50 <sipa> they don't have a meaning outside of it
 49 2013-01-24 00:26:12 <benkay> ah, and the private key will validate against any public key from bip32
 50 2013-01-24 00:26:56 <benkay> more specifically, signatures generated with the private key will validate against the derived public key?
 51 2013-01-24 00:27:25 <sipa> you sign using private key x, then you validate using public key G*x
 52 2013-01-24 00:31:42 da2ce7_d is now known as da2ce7
 53 2013-01-24 00:34:38 <benkay> so even if G = f(some other G, some other crap), G*x still validates
 54 2013-01-24 00:34:49 <sipa> there is no other G
 55 2013-01-24 00:34:57 <sipa> G is the generator of the secp256k1 curve
 56 2013-01-24 00:35:08 <sipa> it's a constant
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 58 2013-01-24 00:36:55 <benkay> so for each bip32 public key there is one and only one private key?
 59 2013-01-24 00:37:14 <sipa> yes, but this has nothing to do with bip32
 60 2013-01-24 00:37:53 <benkay> i (sortof) get that. i'm still trying to understand the math behind acceptbit
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 62 2013-01-24 00:38:01 <sipa> acceptbit?
 63 2013-01-24 00:38:11 <benkay> http://www.acceptbit.com
 64 2013-01-24 00:38:16 <benkay> it's a bip32 implementation
 65 2013-01-24 00:38:22 <benkay> supposedly.
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 67 2013-01-24 00:38:59 <sipa> where do you read that?
 68 2013-01-24 00:39:50 <sipa> afaik there is no public implementation of bip32, as the standard isn't final yet
 69 2013-01-24 00:40:23 <benkay> http://bitcoinmagazine.com/review-of-acceptbit-the-trust-free-payment-processor/
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 71 2013-01-24 00:41:34 <sipa> both electrum and acceptbit probably do deterministic key generation
 72 2013-01-24 00:41:40 <sipa> but they don't use bip32
 73 2013-01-24 00:41:52 <benkay> !
 74 2013-01-24 00:41:52 <sipa> bip32 is just one specific standard for doing deterministic keys
 75 2013-01-24 00:42:16 <benkay> i feel like i've been trying to fit a square peg into a round hole
 76 2013-01-24 00:42:22 <benkay> derp and derp.
 77 2013-01-24 00:42:33 <benkay> thanks, sipa. really appreciate your patience.
 78 2013-01-24 00:42:49 <sipa> :)
 79 2013-01-24 00:43:22 <phantomcircuit> sipa, heh ecdsa.org is down
 80 2013-01-24 00:43:55 <benkay> so the whole deterministic wallet trick is just multiplying the public key by some integer point, and the private key by the same point
 81 2013-01-24 00:44:05 <sipa> phantomcircuit: it moved to electrum.org
 82 2013-01-24 00:44:20 <benkay> increment along a known set of points and that way your wallet knows all possible potential addresses
 83 2013-01-24 00:44:22 <sipa> benkay: integers are not points
 84 2013-01-24 00:44:33 <benkay> right right scratch that
 85 2013-01-24 00:44:34 <phantomcircuit> sipa, i know i was clicking the links on acceptbit and realized they dont have redirects
 86 2013-01-24 00:44:38 <benkay> but some set of known points
 87 2013-01-24 00:44:46 <sipa> you multiply the public key (which is a point) and the private key (which is a number) by the same number
 88 2013-01-24 00:45:06 * benkay nods vigorously
 89 2013-01-24 00:45:25 <sipa> and it's not some "set of known points" - it is the secp256k1 curve
 90 2013-01-24 00:45:48 <sipa> which has a very specific definition of multiplication between points and numbers
 91 2013-01-24 00:46:34 <benkay> is the curve continuous?
 92 2013-01-24 00:46:41 <benkay> duh
 93 2013-01-24 00:47:01 <sipa> "continuous" doesn't have a meaning in a finite field
 94 2013-01-24 00:47:12 <HM> this is slightly offtopic, but for those making diagrams for any documentation they're writing -> http://www.websequencediagrams.com/
 95 2013-01-24 00:47:38 <sipa> benkay: i'd try to explain things a bit better, but i need sleep now
 96 2013-01-24 00:47:58 <benkay> no worries. i'll be on tomorrow. my partner's nagging me to get off irc and review some docs anyways
 97 2013-01-24 00:48:09 <benkay> thanks a million, mon frere
 98 2013-01-24 00:49:07 <sipa> yw
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124 2013-01-24 01:54:20 <gavinandresen> Anybody still awake:  I cleaned out the pull-tester-machines disk, and reset it.  It will re-build and re-test every open pull, so expect extra github notification emails
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127 2013-01-24 01:59:50 <CodeShark> I'm still here :)
128 2013-01-24 02:00:19 <CodeShark> yeah, the thing ran out of disk space again
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130 2013-01-24 02:04:40 <MobGod> CodeShark do you have a min that i can speak tol you about something in private
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142 2013-01-24 02:52:21 <phantomcircuit> sipa, you have any idea what happens if the first peer you connect to lies about it's block height?
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144 2013-01-24 02:52:28 <phantomcircuit> for example by saying it has block 1 billion
145 2013-01-24 02:52:50 <phantomcircuit> im guessing you get stuck in a loop trying to get to the none existent 1 billionth block
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150 2013-01-24 03:11:46 <CodeShark> wumpus, you still here?
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198 2013-01-24 05:28:41 <gmaxwell> ;;ticker
199 2013-01-24 05:28:44 <gribble> BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 18.46000, Best ask: 18.46999, Bid-ask spread: 0.00999, Last trade: 18.47000, 24 hour volume: 67750.03900945, 24 hour low: 16.80155, 24 hour high: 19.00000, 24 hour vwap: 17.58522
200 2013-01-24 05:28:59 freakazoid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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203 2013-01-24 05:37:36 <petertodd> anyone want to do a quick sanity check of my new dnsseed? testnet-seed.bitcoin.petertodd.org
204 2013-01-24 05:37:58 <petertodd> (it's for testnet as the name suggests)
205 2013-01-24 05:38:26 <CodeShark> the markets are too interesting to be programming right now :p
206 2013-01-24 05:38:40 <SomeoneWeird> lol
207 2013-01-24 05:38:52 <petertodd> wtf?!?!
208 2013-01-24 05:39:38 <petertodd> (recalculating net worth, ok, actually still small)
209 2013-01-24 05:42:11 <gmaxwell> :P
210 2013-01-24 05:50:40 <jgarzik> I <heart> Internet
211 2013-01-24 05:51:03 <jgarzik> miss 3 days of Internet, and the bitcoin market value shoots up even more
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217 2013-01-24 06:05:02 mollison has left ("PART #bitcoin :PONG :hubbard.freenode.net")
218 2013-01-24 06:05:15 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: Offline! now! you ! off!!!
219 2013-01-24 06:05:38 hahuang65 has joined
220 2013-01-24 06:06:16 <SomeoneWeird> KICKKKKK
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230 2013-01-24 06:25:35 <jgarzik> hehe
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247 2013-01-24 07:12:38 <jgarzik> yum.  now available with bitcoin: http://www.gogreensolar.com/collections/solar-panels/watts-400-415
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255 2013-01-24 07:51:48 <mariusursache> newbie question, if I copy the privkey (using dumpprivkey) shouldn
256 2013-01-24 07:52:14 <mariusursache> and import it in a different system, shouldn't the new system have the funds from the first one?
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260 2013-01-24 07:52:24 <kuzetsa> mariusursache: yes
261 2013-01-24 07:53:10 <mariusursache> kuzetsa: any reason why this is not happening? (I'm doing it on testnet, using two different ubuntu users)
262 2013-01-24 07:55:01 <kuzetsa> I don't know how testnet works, sorry.
263 2013-01-24 07:55:32 <mariusursache> should work the same as main net. I'm using the same clients
264 2013-01-24 07:55:46 <kuzetsa> at least one bitcoin developer (the main dev of the armory bitcoin client) recommends against copying privkey between clients
265 2013-01-24 07:56:46 <kuzetsa> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=56424.msg1016866#msg1016866 <--- they don't like the idea because of how bitcoind / bitcoin-qt handles a privkey being used by a diff. client.
266 2013-01-24 07:58:08 mollison has joined
267 2013-01-24 07:59:10 <mariusursache> kuzetsa: it make sense what he says, I'm trying to figure how thing works, though
268 2013-01-24 07:59:12 <kuzetsa> wow that thread has anothre 40+ pages worth of posts since that topic last came up... just wow.
269 2013-01-24 07:59:50 <kuzetsa> mariusursache: I'm really not sure why or how it works or doesn't work or if it works
270 2013-01-24 08:00:15 <kuzetsa> it SHOULD work, assuming the dumpprivkey and import features aren't buggy
271 2013-01-24 08:00:57 <kuzetsa> it's basically the sort of thing that is useful for "cold storage / offline" wallets.
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273 2013-01-24 08:01:34 <mariusursache> import gives no error message first time, then it says error: {"code":-4,"message":"Error adding key to wallet"}
274 2013-01-24 08:01:57 <kuzetsa> yeah, I dunno
275 2013-01-24 08:05:21 <mollison> I'm looking at the calculation of the probability of an attacker overcoming the honest chain from Satoshi's original paper
276 2013-01-24 08:05:37 <mollison> is that a mistake? i buy the case for p > q but not the case for p <= q
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281 2013-01-24 08:21:55 <mollison> btw, i got my question answered elsewhere, so nobody here needs to think about it, thanks anyway though :P
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286 2013-01-24 08:42:54 <sipa> mariusursache: adding fails because it's already there :)
287 2013-01-24 08:43:33 <mariusursache> sipa: I noticed that. then I found out that that a -rescan should help to get the funds back
288 2013-01-24 08:43:37 <mariusursache> but doesn't seem to help
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291 2013-01-24 08:53:27 <sipa> phantomcircuit: the height announced in the version message is largely ignored
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301 2013-01-24 09:05:31 <sipa> mariusursache: what funds are missing?
302 2013-01-24 09:06:00 tttt has joined
303 2013-01-24 09:07:09 <mariusursache> sipa: I was trying to see if exporting the private key from one account and importing it into another means that the coins will go with the key. I'm trying this on testnet, on ubuntu, using bitcoind
304 2013-01-24 09:07:20 <gmaxwell> BIP_34 appears to be at 50% of the last 1000.
305 2013-01-24 09:07:25 <gmaxwell> We should probably start tracking this.
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308 2013-01-24 09:09:06 <gmaxwell> Since half the hashrate may soon shift to new owners it might trip over the threshold quite fast.
309 2013-01-24 09:09:49 <sipa> mariusursache: it should yes
310 2013-01-24 09:10:00 <sipa> mariusursache: but there are several pitfalls
311 2013-01-24 09:10:05 <mariusursache> shoot
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314 2013-01-24 09:10:48 <gmaxwell> 18:35 < phantomcircuit> sipa, you have any idea what happens if the first peer you connect to lies about it's block height?
315 2013-01-24 09:10:54 <gmaxwell> "We're not idiots, thanks!"
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319 2013-01-24 09:11:53 <gmaxwell> IIRC the two things we use it for: we won't try to go fetch the blocks (with our special bootstrapping pulls) from a peer which claims to be far behind us, and the median of these figures is used in the GUI progress indicator.
320 2013-01-24 09:12:48 <sipa> indeed, that's it
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362 2013-01-24 11:21:15 <mariusursache> sipa kuzetsa I've managed to import the key. don't know what was the issue. I've installed a new vm, with a new bitcoind client and it worked...
363 2013-01-24 11:23:58 <sipa> mariusursache: but are you able to spend?
364 2013-01-24 11:24:47 <sipa> mariusursache: if you're doing transactions from the same wallet from multiple locations, and the different locations are unaware of eachother's transactions, you may end up with attempted double spends
365 2013-01-24 11:24:56 <sipa> which won't confirm, while the client assumes they will
366 2013-01-24 11:25:23 <mariusursache> sipa: I've sent 1btc from the account where I've imported the key
367 2013-01-24 11:25:36 <mariusursache> but on testnet it takes a while until is confirmed
368 2013-01-24 11:26:05 <mariusursache> I'll try to do a -rescan after the transaction is confirmed, to see if the balance is adjusted
369 2013-01-24 11:26:23 <sipa> it won't
370 2013-01-24 11:26:50 <mariusursache> sipa: I don't plan on using this. I wanted to have a way to confirm that the money arrived to the new account. just for delevelopment
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379 2013-01-24 12:06:18 <t7`> i need to get some money on mtgox ready for the crash, the market is going mad
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381 2013-01-24 12:06:54 <lianj> need to buy some real things with buttcoins first
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385 2013-01-24 12:21:36 <Jouke_> When I run the client from bitcoin-head, does it use the pruned database?
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391 2013-01-24 12:27:35 <sipa> Jouke_: depends what you mean by pruned database
392 2013-01-24 12:28:03 <sipa> the database used by git head is indeed pruned, in the sense that it only maintains information about unspent transaction outputs
393 2013-01-24 12:28:16 <sipa> however, it does still store and rely on the presence of full blocks
394 2013-01-24 12:28:43 <sipa> but those full blocks are not consulted for validation of transactions, so that decreases I/O and increases performance
395 2013-01-24 12:29:20 <sipa> they are only necessary for rescanning, reindexing, chain reorganisations, and serving them to other nodes
396 2013-01-24 12:30:05 <lianj> sipa: how to switch back to keep into about spent txs aswell?
397 2013-01-24 12:32:18 <Jouke_> sipa: well, for example I want to use that "fast blockchain parser" to identify "wallets", so I want to have information on all transactions.
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400 2013-01-24 12:33:08 <sipa> lianj: there is a pull request to add an option -txindex, which causes the client to maintain an index for all transaction in the chain, independently from the validation database (which is not an index, it just contains the unspent output data itself)
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402 2013-01-24 12:33:29 <sipa> Jouke_: the blockchain parses uses the block chain, not the index
403 2013-01-24 12:33:41 <sipa> Jouke_: and the client still stores the entire block chain, so no problem
404 2013-01-24 12:34:09 <sipa> lianj: the *only* thing -txindex is used for, is getrawtransaction, so it is optional
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406 2013-01-24 12:34:16 <Jouke_> damnit, just when I think I know something, it turns out I don't :(
407 2013-01-24 12:35:00 <Jouke_> sipa: I thought the pruning was to get rid of the total block chain?
408 2013-01-24 12:35:22 <sipa> Jouke_: yes, but that is not implemented
409 2013-01-24 12:35:34 <sipa> Jouke_: we just switched to a new database layout which supports pruning
410 2013-01-24 12:35:40 <sipa> (but doesn't do it)
411 2013-01-24 12:36:00 <Jouke_> ah ok, it is only to speed things up, not to get rid of the database?
412 2013-01-24 12:36:23 <sipa> indeed, though it's a first (and extensive) step towards getting rid of the block chain
413 2013-01-24 12:36:30 <sipa> and the block chain is not a database
414 2013-01-24 12:36:39 <sipa> it's just a chain of blocks :p
415 2013-01-24 12:36:46 <lianj> sipa: so if you ask for a old block, the git-head would still give you that old block, right?
416 2013-01-24 12:37:00 <sipa> lianj: blocks are always indexed, that didn't change
417 2013-01-24 12:37:10 <lianj> ok, thanks. just checking
418 2013-01-24 12:37:16 <sipa> it's just that there is no (mandatory) transaction index anymore
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420 2013-01-24 12:38:13 <Jouke_> Does anyone know a way to get unspent transactions from a random bitcoinaddress?
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422 2013-01-24 12:39:20 <sipa> Jouke_: that would require a by-address index to the unspent transaction output database
423 2013-01-24 12:39:27 <sipa> not yet implemented in the reference client
424 2013-01-24 12:41:16 <lianj> Jouke_: you can use some webservice, but you prolly want to do it on your own machine?
425 2013-01-24 12:41:47 <Jouke_> lianj: exactly
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459 2013-01-24 14:05:47 <etotheipi_> sipa, gmaxwell:  is there a way to tell by RPC (or as a regular peer) whether bitcoind is sync'd?  I mean is there a direct command?  Or do I just look to see whether there's been more than 3 blocks in the last... X seconds?
460 2013-01-24 14:06:54 <kuzetsa> has anyone else ever seen the bug in bitcoin-qt where if you edit the label on an address, it sometimes edits the label on more than one address to whatever you just typed?
461 2013-01-24 14:08:34 <sipa> kuzetsa: yes, known problem and iirc fixed in git head
462 2013-01-24 14:08:50 <sipa> etotheipi_: i don't think so - the definition of 'synced' is very fuzzy
463 2013-01-24 14:09:08 <Luke-Jr> etotheipi_: getwork ;)
464 2013-01-24 14:09:25 <Luke-Jr> actually, getblocktemplate is actually lighter I guess
465 2013-01-24 14:09:46 <kuzetsa> sipa: thanks. I rarely do edits, but it's been going on since 0.6.3 that I'm aware of (possibly longer)
466 2013-01-24 14:09:53 <sipa> etotheipi_: iirc the GUI checks the age of the last block, and some RPC commands will not work if the median height reported by peers is higher than what you have
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468 2013-01-24 14:13:15 <etotheipi_> sipa, Luke-Jr:  yeah, I don't need a "solid" definition of it
469 2013-01-24 14:13:34 <etotheipi_> I just want to know whether bitcoind is more than, say, 10 blocks behind
470 2013-01-24 14:17:37 <etotheipi_> so, can you tell me one of those commands?  it sounds like "will not work if median height reported by peers is higher than what you have" is actually perfect for me
471 2013-01-24 14:18:04 <sipa> getwork/getblocktemplate will fail with an error "Bitcoin is synchronizing blocks" or something like that
472 2013-01-24 14:18:25 <sipa> but i don't like the median-based criterion at all
473 2013-01-24 14:18:31 <sipa> headers-first mode would solve this :p
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477 2013-01-24 14:23:17 <etotheipi_> sipa: are you concerned about someone controlling more than half your peers and lying to you?
478 2013-01-24 14:23:19 <HM> etotheipi_: just grab the block count from a trusted website like blockexplorer :P
479 2013-01-24 14:23:53 <sipa> etotheipi_: or accidentally being connected to only 3 nodes, two of which happen to be stuck
480 2013-01-24 14:24:51 <sipa> etotheipi_: i just don't like on a flaky heuristic when there's a perfectly neat solution :)
481 2013-01-24 14:24:59 <sipa> +to depend
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483 2013-01-24 14:31:01 <etotheipi_> sipa: that's fine... I'm just trying to make sure I also understand the risks of doing this
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506 2013-01-24 15:30:07 <gavinandresen> sipa: I re-ran the load bootstrap.dat on my 32-bit mac laptop.  It was: 219 minutes to get to block 190,000 with default settings, 57 minutes with -dbcache=500
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509 2013-01-24 15:41:27 <HM> gavinandresen: is that a memory cache?
510 2013-01-24 15:47:43 <sipa> HM: yes
511 2013-01-24 15:47:56 <sipa> gavinandresen: i didn't expect such a large difference
512 2013-01-24 15:58:25 <Luke-Jr> I wonder if there's a way to ask the OS "how much unused memory can I use for cache comfortably?"
513 2013-01-24 15:58:42 <Luke-Jr> can dbcache be changed on the fly?
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516 2013-01-24 16:04:34 <sipa> Luke-Jr: it's actually converted into several parameters internally, affecting the size of the cache and log sizes of leveldb, and the size of the coins cache
517 2013-01-24 16:04:43 <sipa> the last one can be changed on the fly
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519 2013-01-24 16:05:11 <sipa> it's just a "how large can it grow before we do a flush"
520 2013-01-24 16:05:15 <Luke-Jr> perhaps it'd be handy to break down which one(s) make a big difference
521 2013-01-24 16:05:29 <sipa> yes, some profiling makes sense
522 2013-01-24 16:05:39 <sipa> but there are several improvements possible for the coins cache too
523 2013-01-24 16:06:02 <sipa> right now, it doesn't track which entries are dirty (it assumes all of them are)
524 2013-01-24 16:06:24 <sipa> and it wipes the cache entirely when doing a flush, instead of retaining entries but marking them clean
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527 2013-01-24 16:07:49 <sipa> and even nicer, if we'd remember which entries in the cache do not exist in the backend (database or second cache), you can just drop them entirely when they get deleted
528 2013-01-24 16:08:31 <sipa> and since many transactions are created in the cache, and entirely spent within that cache before being flushed, that would mean they never need to touch leveldb at all
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571 2013-01-24 17:38:59 <gmaxwell> Facepalm: https://github.com/search?q=PRIVATE+id_rsa&type=Code&ref=searchresults
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573 2013-01-24 17:42:25 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I wonder how many of those get into github <.<
574 2013-01-24 17:42:35 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: could they be encrypted, though?
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580 2013-01-24 17:46:13 <Luke-Jr> http://codepad.org/Yugm43b8 then do "thr <N>" and "interrupt" - voila, interactive debugging (including "print <var>") while the program keeps running :D
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583 2013-01-24 17:47:48 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: wow...just...wow
584 2013-01-24 17:48:00 <gmaxwell> https://github.com/search?p=2&q=secring.gpg&ref=searchresults&type=Code
585 2013-01-24 17:48:18 <gmaxwell> I like that there was a seperate commit for this one: https://github.com/DrHayt/dotfiles/commit/b6615e6a86dc4dff42f35c185cc456ada9255c86
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587 2013-01-24 17:48:40 <BlueMatt> cd /home && git init . && git add * && git commit -a && git push github.com/private/repo.git
588 2013-01-24 17:49:35 <gmaxwell> git add *  wouldn't get dot files.
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590 2013-01-24 17:50:35 <BlueMatt> oh, good point, well...anyway still
591 2013-01-24 17:50:57 <sipa> gmaxwell: but the repository _is called_ dotfiles :D
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613 2013-01-24 18:22:28 <psih> Hello! Can someone help me with a few questions? Questions are: 1. How to calculate the power of the bitcoin network? 2. How can I calculate how much time does it take to calculate 1GHash?
614 2013-01-24 18:22:55 <psih> I have a bitcoin client to witch I connect via JSON-RPC
615 2013-01-24 18:24:53 <sipa> psih: if you can do 1 GHash/s, calculating 1 GHash takes you 1s :p
616 2013-01-24 18:24:56 ciscoftw has joined
617 2013-01-24 18:25:09 <sipa> how much hashing speed you have yourself is another question
618 2013-01-24 18:25:30 <psih> sipa I don't mine, I develop a site that exchanges bitcoins :)
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621 2013-01-24 18:25:48 <psih> I need to output some stats about bitcoin network itself
622 2013-01-24 18:25:55 <sipa> see http://bitcoin.sipa.be/
623 2013-01-24 18:26:43 <psih> well, I want to be able to calculate part of that data myself
624 2013-01-24 18:27:10 <psih> I can get data about the network from my bitcoind client, I just don't know what some of the data means
625 2013-01-24 18:27:19 <psih> and how to use it to calculate stuff
626 2013-01-24 18:27:32 <psih> official wiki is kind'a scarse on that :(
627 2013-01-24 18:28:00 <sipa> the data on my site is calculated from a list of (time,difficulty) pairs for every block
628 2013-01-24 18:28:22 <sipa> basically, a block of difficulty D accounts for 2^32*D hashes
629 2013-01-24 18:28:45 <sipa> so you measure how many such hashes are present in some sliding window
630 2013-01-24 18:28:58 <psih> And I can get that data from my bitcoind client via witch JSON-RPC call?...
631 2013-01-24 18:29:02 jgarzik_ is now known as jgarzik
632 2013-01-24 18:29:06 <sipa> yes, getblock RPC
633 2013-01-24 18:29:16 <sipa> it will tell you the time and difficulty
634 2013-01-24 18:29:55 <psih> aha, ok, so I need a block hash
635 2013-01-24 18:30:09 nus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
636 2013-01-24 18:30:14 <psih> and if I don't mine bitcoins myself - how can I get a block hash then?
637 2013-01-24 18:30:27 nus has joined
638 2013-01-24 18:32:21 <psih> ah, ok. Just to verify that I'm correct
639 2013-01-24 18:32:42 <psih> bitcoind getblockcount - I get the ID of the last block
640 2013-01-24 18:32:47 <psih> and I use that ID in
641 2013-01-24 18:32:58 <psih> bitcoind getblockhash ID
642 2013-01-24 18:34:00 <psih> and with the resulting hash I do
643 2013-01-24 18:34:09 <psih> bitcoind getblock BLOCKHASH
644 2013-01-24 18:34:15 <psih> Am I right?
645 2013-01-24 18:35:00 BTCOxygen has joined
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651 2013-01-24 18:42:53 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: LOL
652 2013-01-24 18:42:59 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I posted a comment on that commit ;)
653 2013-01-24 18:43:23 nus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
654 2013-01-24 18:44:09 FredEE has quit (Client Quit)
655 2013-01-24 18:44:30 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: since even if his private keys are encrypted, he also posted his current random seed…
656 2013-01-24 18:46:16 nus has joined
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666 2013-01-24 19:01:23 <Seeraber> what are people usinng to accept greendot moneypaki?
667 2013-01-24 19:01:39 <Seeraber> via a third-party merxchnat?
668 2013-01-24 19:01:51 nus has joined
669 2013-01-24 19:02:44 <BlueMatt> maybe ask on #bitcoin-otc
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689 2013-01-24 19:37:53 ciscoftw has joined
690 2013-01-24 19:38:27 <ciscoftw> who is Stehen Cupp?
691 2013-01-24 19:39:59 FredEE has joined
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694 2013-01-24 19:50:58 <FredEE> ;;ticker
695 2013-01-24 19:50:59 <gribble> BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 17.65498, Best ask: 17.80000, Bid-ask spread: 0.14502, Last trade: 17.32000, 24 hour volume: 120706.31007588, 24 hour low: 17.25201, 24 hour high: 19.18999, 24 hour vwap: 18.28003
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724 2013-01-24 20:49:58 <muhoo> so in bitcoinj, a "nanocoin" is a satoshi?
725 2013-01-24 20:50:19 <muhoo> what it calls a Utils.CENT ?
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729 2013-01-24 20:52:38 <muhoo> wait, no, looks like a CENT is 0.01 coins. interesting. and just 1 is a nanocoin, ok
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735 2013-01-24 20:59:18 <Luke-Jr> muhoo: 1 shouldn't be a nanocoin O.o
736 2013-01-24 20:59:36 <Luke-Jr> muhoo: a satoshi is 10 nanobitcoins
737 2013-01-24 21:00:02 toffoo has joined
738 2013-01-24 21:00:16 <Luke-Jr> https://gitorious.org/gdb-nointerrupt/gdb-nointerrupt <-- handy GDB tools; you can interact with the debugger without stopping the program ;)
739 2013-01-24 21:00:34 mykhal has joined
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741 2013-01-24 21:01:21 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: you should make a patch to gdb so it's all just a single command.
742 2013-01-24 21:01:36 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: that's what this basically does :p
743 2013-01-24 21:01:51 <Luke-Jr> except using gdb scripts, which I imagine is what they'd tell me to do
744 2013-01-24 21:02:13 <gmaxwell> well GDB has first class python integration now.
745 2013-01-24 21:02:27 <Luke-Jr> I'm using it for this ;)
746 2013-01-24 21:02:45 Belkaar has joined
747 2013-01-24 21:02:56 <Luke-Jr> (though I did come across a number of things missing, which I had to use gdb.execute to workaround)
748 2013-01-24 21:03:53 <muhoo> Luke-Jr: i think i have my terminology screwed up. is 1.0E-8 a nanocoin, a satoshi, neither, or both?
749 2013-01-24 21:04:04 <Luke-Jr> muhoo: a satoshi
750 2013-01-24 21:04:19 <muhoo> ok, what's a nanocoin then?
751 2013-01-24 21:04:33 <Luke-Jr> muhoo: 1/10th of a satoshi
752 2013-01-24 21:04:40 owowo is now known as oMoMo
753 2013-01-24 21:04:47 <muhoo> huh? is that even possible?
754 2013-01-24 21:04:51 BurtyBB has joined
755 2013-01-24 21:04:57 <Luke-Jr> it isn't possible, on the blockchain
756 2013-01-24 21:05:23 <Luke-Jr> off the blockchain, it can be discussed in theory
757 2013-01-24 21:05:28 <muhoo> ah! ok. then why bitcoinj talks about nanocoins in the source and javadoc is beyond me.
758 2013-01-24 21:05:39 <Luke-Jr> I have no experience with BitcoinJ, so..
759 2013-01-24 21:05:49 <muhoo> fair enough, thanks for explaining
760 2013-01-24 21:06:35 spaz926 has quit (Quit: Bye!)
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762 2013-01-24 21:07:48 Belkaar has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
763 2013-01-24 21:07:53 <muhoo> and there's the critical comment "// TODO: Replace this nanocoins business with something better." :-)
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770 2013-01-24 21:15:58 <gmaxwell> Bitcoin2013 registration open, apparently.
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787 2013-01-24 21:29:13 <eckey> not a Bruce Wagner thing, is it?
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789 2013-01-24 21:30:13 Seeraber is now known as away!~Seerauber@pool-100-2-31-168.nycmny.fios.verizon.net|Seeraber
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794 2013-01-24 21:36:49 mappum has joined
795 2013-01-24 21:37:21 <mappum> so i'm making an app that creates accounts for users
796 2013-01-24 21:37:23 rdymac has joined
797 2013-01-24 21:37:41 <mappum> i am using grynewaddress and specifying an id for the user
798 2013-01-24 21:37:59 TD has joined
799 2013-01-24 21:38:06 <mappum> is this the correct way to do this? is there any security flaw of having it all in one wallet.dat like that?
800 2013-01-24 21:38:10 <mappum> *getnewaddress
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805 2013-01-24 21:44:11 <Luke-Jr> mappum: bitcoind isn't designed for large scale stuff, so you'll find it gets really slow
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812 2013-01-24 21:52:44 <mappum> Luke-Jr: then what alternative do you recommend?
813 2013-01-24 21:54:37 <helo> roll your own, i suppose
814 2013-01-24 21:54:39 <Luke-Jr> mappum: I don't have a recommendation. Might ask some big ewallet provider (not MtGox, they have their own codebase)
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816 2013-01-24 21:55:57 <Luke-Jr> mappum: an easy roll-your-own solution is to ignore bitcoind's wallet, and use a SQL database for balances, and scan block changes with -blocknotify and getblock
817 2013-01-24 21:56:19 <Luke-Jr> (be sure you handle stale/reorg blocks properly!)
818 2013-01-24 21:58:11 <mappum> hmm, do you think the blockchain.info wallet api would be fine?
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820 2013-01-24 21:59:33 <Luke-Jr> mappum: I wouldn't trust a third-party with my customers' money…
821 2013-01-24 21:59:47 <mappum> good point :P
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823 2013-01-24 22:05:51 <Jouke_> I am running the latest head version, when it says it is at the latest block, is the blockchain also updated to the latest block?
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828 2013-01-24 22:19:38 <mappum> Luke-Jr: if i go by the method you suggested and just keep track of balances myself, should i still be generating addresses with getnewaddress?
829 2013-01-24 22:20:28 <Luke-Jr> mappum: you could, but probably want to get another method before you get big
830 2013-01-24 22:20:54 <mappum> i like your optimism :P
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832 2013-01-24 22:21:27 <mappum> what kind of other method would that be?
833 2013-01-24 22:21:58 <mappum> and is the only thing that makes theirs bad is that it is storing the address?
834 2013-01-24 22:22:58 <Luke-Jr> mappum: no, bitcoind will track every transaction involving a key it knows
835 2013-01-24 22:23:18 <Luke-Jr> mappum: other method = /dev/random with ECDSA code :P
836 2013-01-24 22:23:36 <Luke-Jr> could possibly base it on vanitygen code if you don't like bitcoind's
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842 2013-01-24 22:29:04 <mappum> well, i'm using node.js, do you think this is suitable? https://github.com/bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-server
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844 2013-01-24 22:29:22 <mappum> that would save a lot of time from trying to write it all myself :P
845 2013-01-24 22:31:44 <Luke-Jr> mappum: afaik bitcoinjs was just a wrapper around bitcoind?
846 2013-01-24 22:32:10 <mappum> nope, i think it's all on it's own
847 2013-01-24 22:32:31 <pigeons> have you looked at the "bulk address generator" on bitaddress.org? i know people are cautious about using that
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849 2013-01-24 22:33:28 <Luke-Jr> pigeons: good point, he could at least copy the code
850 2013-01-24 22:42:21 <kuzetsa> so uh... this nonsense arbitrary policy "take drastic measures like filtering priority / fees / etc. once the block gets bigger" ... arbitrary because 250k soft-limit is currently (like the past 10 blocks) causing problems.
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853 2013-01-24 22:50:49 <gmaxwell> kuzetsa: what are you talking about? I seem to be missing the context.
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857 2013-01-24 22:59:29 <kuzetsa> oh uh... the way transactions are being deferred / pushed forward to later blocks whenever transaction volume gets high like this.
858 2013-01-24 23:03:24 <gmaxwell> kuzetsa: Are you talking about the anti DOS-attack heuristics which trade off confirmation time for blockchain growth in order to encourage long term efficiency and make sure that short term griefing don't perpetually burden Bitcoin so early in its life?
859 2013-01-24 23:06:37 dazboyy has joined
860 2013-01-24 23:07:56 <kuzetsa> ... I'm not aware of any "griefing"
861 2013-01-24 23:08:00 <dazboyy> anyone selling / buying
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863 2013-01-24 23:08:24 <kuzetsa> line 515: // Raise the price as the block approaches full
864 2013-01-24 23:08:30 <kuzetsa> of main.cpp
865 2013-01-24 23:08:44 <kuzetsa> well... line number may have changed (I'm looking at the 0.7.2 linux source)
866 2013-01-24 23:09:20 <kuzetsa> basically "full" is arbitrarily defined / not calculated based on transaction volume
867 2013-01-24 23:11:26 <gmaxwell> I'm not exactly following what your complaint is.
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869 2013-01-24 23:11:51 <gmaxwell> The system intentionally puts downward pressure on block size because data in blocks must be processed and maintained forever.
870 2013-01-24 23:12:36 <gmaxwell> There has certantly been griefing in the past— thats where the anti-dos rules came from— and altcoins without (economically) compariable rules have been slammed with junk.
871 2013-01-24 23:13:13 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: ironically, I think the code in question here is never used anymore :P
872 2013-01-24 23:14:04 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: since GetMinFee is only used for sending/relaying, and I don't think either of those use the block size thing
873 2013-01-24 23:14:26 <kuzetsa> main.h --> static const unsigned int MAX_BLOCK_SIZE = 1000000;  static const unsigned int MAX_BLOCK_SIZE_GEN = MAX_BLOCK_SIZE/2;
874 2013-01-24 23:14:45 <kuzetsa> ... wait, you're saying MAX_BLOCK_SIZE and MAX_BLOCK_SIZEGEN are unused?
875 2013-01-24 23:14:51 <gmaxwell> kuzetsa: yes, max blocksiz is a protocol rule.
876 2013-01-24 23:15:07 <Luke-Jr> kuzetsa: no, I'm saying GetMinFee is never called with a size other than 1000
877 2013-01-24 23:15:11 <gmaxwell> without it bitcoin would be /very/ easily destroyed.
878 2013-01-24 23:18:53 <kuzetsa> huh?
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880 2013-01-24 23:19:15 <kuzetsa> I'm not suggesting the checks / limiting features should be removed
881 2013-01-24 23:19:47 <gmaxwell> I've been trying to figure out exactly what you /are/ suggesting.
882 2013-01-24 23:19:47 <kuzetsa> more along the lines of having MAX_BLOCK_SIZE and MAX_BLOCK_SIZE_GEN scale to the network speed similarly to how difficulty auto-adjusts
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884 2013-01-24 23:20:47 <gmaxwell> They don't have anything to do with each other.
885 2013-01-24 23:21:13 <kuzetsa> gmaxwell: uh...
886 2013-01-24 23:21:32 <Luke-Jr> kuzetsa: sipa, Gavin, and I (and maybe some others?) have taken steps toward improving block scaling, but it's still a far way off, and increasing MAX_BLOCK_SIZE breaks compatibility with all older clients
887 2013-01-24 23:21:35 <kuzetsa> well instead of scaling based on hash speed or whatever like difficulty, why can't MAX_BLOCK_SIZE scale based on the number of transactions over the past N blocks
888 2013-01-24 23:21:37 <gmaxwell> Increased hasrate doesn't have anything to do with being able to store (and process) more transactions in perpetuity.
889 2013-01-24 23:22:03 <kuzetsa> no, I didn't mean scale it based on hashrate
890 2013-01-24 23:22:08 <gmaxwell> kuzetsa: because thats asymptotically the same as having no limit
891 2013-01-24 23:22:16 <kuzetsa> exactly
892 2013-01-24 23:22:42 <gmaxwell> kuzetsa: also, the maximum size can't just be incresed. It's a protocol rule like the limit of 21m bitcoins. If you produce a block over that limit you're just ignored by all nodes.
893 2013-01-24 23:22:45 <kuzetsa> no arbitrary limit seems more sensible than an arbitrary limit which might not be usable a year from now and is already causing problems sometimes.
894 2013-01-24 23:23:00 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
895 2013-01-24 23:23:01 <gmaxwell> kuzetsa: having no limit would— as mentioned before— make bitcoin non-viable.
896 2013-01-24 23:23:02 <Luke-Jr> kuzetsa: it's not causing problems
897 2013-01-24 23:23:07 <Luke-Jr> kuzetsa: the DDoS is causing problems
898 2013-01-24 23:23:23 <kuzetsa> what? there's no DoS happening (distributed or otherwise)
899 2013-01-24 23:23:27 <Luke-Jr> kuzetsa: yes, there is
900 2013-01-24 23:23:35 <kuzetsa> I've not seen evidence of this.
901 2013-01-24 23:23:36 b4epoche has joined
902 2013-01-24 23:23:36 <gmaxwell> Instead of competing for hashpower to secure the network miners would rationally compete to build blocks that other nodes can't process in time, excluding them from mining.. and bitcoin would lose its decenteralization.
903 2013-01-24 23:23:40 <Luke-Jr> kuzetsa: you wouldn't.
904 2013-01-24 23:23:51 <Luke-Jr> kuzetsa: but actually, you have: slower confirmations
905 2013-01-24 23:24:09 <kuzetsa> Luke-Jr: I've inspected the transactions being realyed, and the transactions in blocks and there's no evidence of DoS
906 2013-01-24 23:24:32 <gmaxwell> kuzetsa: the whole security model of bitcoin in the long run assumes that there will be transaction fees which pay enough to keep enough energy being spent to secure it— but if there isn't constant pressure on space in blocks then the fees will be zero to very small and it will be trivial to reverse transactions.
907 2013-01-24 23:24:33 <Luke-Jr> kuzetsa: because you're not competent in your inspection abilities
908 2013-01-24 23:24:38 <Luke-Jr> ok, I'm done
909 2013-01-24 23:24:53 <gmaxwell> kuzetsa: partially this is because the current rules are effective. Search for 'penny flooding attack'
910 2013-01-24 23:25:08 <gmaxwell> Prior to the rules there were plenty of attacks.
911 2013-01-24 23:26:41 <gmaxwell> There also doesn't need to be a _current_ attack to know that if you open one that can be performed by any kid typing in 'while true; do bitcoind sendtoaddress `bitcoind getnewaddress` 0.00000001 ; done' that there will be such an attack.
912 2013-01-24 23:26:53 <dazboyy> Can anyone help me
913 2013-01-24 23:27:02 <dazboyy> can i make a pp account add a visa and send money instant?
914 2013-01-24 23:27:17 <dazboyy> or does it have to be verified?
915 2013-01-24 23:27:28 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
916 2013-01-24 23:28:04 <Luke-Jr> dazboyy: does this look like #paypal ?
917 2013-01-24 23:28:48 <gmaxwell> dazboyy: try asking paypal, many here avoid it when we can.
918 2013-01-24 23:28:50 Insu has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
919 2013-01-24 23:29:07 <dazboyy> thanks
920 2013-01-24 23:29:11 freakazoid has joined
921 2013-01-24 23:29:29 TD has joined
922 2013-01-24 23:29:36 <helo> kuzetsa: i think that as bitcoin value and usage pick up, it will be used less for small valued transactions... essentially moving up-market
923 2013-01-24 23:29:39 <kuzetsa> re: 'while true; do bitcoind sendtoaddress `bitcoind getnewaddress` 0.00000001 ; done' <-- wouldn't the fee requirement prevent that?
924 2013-01-24 23:29:56 MrTiggr has joined
925 2013-01-24 23:30:23 <helo> kuzetsa: nope, the fee just makes it expensive
926 2013-01-24 23:30:38 <kuzetsa> heh
927 2013-01-24 23:30:45 <gmaxwell> kuzetsa: what you appear to be arguing with is _part_ of the fee requirement.
928 2013-01-24 23:31:39 <helo> the block size ensures such an attacker can only pollute so much (1MB) per block, and would also drive the fees up much higher
929 2013-01-24 23:31:49 <kuzetsa> hmm... so what you're suggesting is that a transaction with a higher fee would automatically have a higher priority, and not be bumped to a later block?
930 2013-01-24 23:32:05 <gmaxwell> kuzetsa: they do.
931 2013-01-24 23:32:17 <helo> yes, there will be a market for block space
932 2013-01-24 23:32:28 <kuzetsa> they "do" (which "do" or case or thing is the thing that they do?)
933 2013-01-24 23:32:46 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
934 2013-01-24 23:32:52 <gmaxwell> "a transaction with a higher fee would automatically have a higher priority"
935 2013-01-24 23:33:02 <kuzetsa> ah, right then.
936 2013-01-24 23:33:42 <gmaxwell> (well, higher fee /per kb/ and very small fees are treated as zero... just to prevent people from jumping ahead of all the free txn with an inconsequential fee)
937 2013-01-24 23:33:54 cdecker_ has joined
938 2013-01-24 23:34:53 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
939 2013-01-24 23:34:57 <kuzetsa> I'm serriously thinking I might actually sit down with a debugger and testnet in a box at this rate.
940 2013-01-24 23:35:26 <gmaxwell> A ... debugger? 0_o ... guess what, we do give you the source!
941 2013-01-24 23:35:35 <Luke-Jr> lol
942 2013-01-24 23:35:36 <kuzetsa> yeah, and?
943 2013-01-24 23:35:39 Guest85913 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
944 2013-01-24 23:36:13 <kuzetsa> I don't understand why my use of the word "debugger" was funny.
945 2013-01-24 23:37:57 <kuzetsa> what else is it called when you watch the flow of a running program (with or without symbols to map to a higher level language / source, or even just ASM) so you can watch what is happening as it happens... pretty sure that functionality is "using a debugger"
946 2013-01-24 23:39:15 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
947 2013-01-24 23:40:35 <gmaxwell> Not sure— I'll look it up after I finish using an electron microscope to figure out how to drive my car.
948 2013-01-24 23:41:16 <kuzetsa> are you suggesting that looking at the source, the flow should just be obvious without watching it execute?
949 2013-01-24 23:42:04 forloop has joined
950 2013-01-24 23:42:16 rng29a has quit (Changing host)
951 2013-01-24 23:42:16 rng29a has joined
952 2013-01-24 23:42:37 <kuzetsa> ... sadly, I learned to code using an IDE with a toolchain that doesn't rely on an external debugger,, and I'm not accustom to "figuring out the program flow" without such techniques.
953 2013-01-24 23:42:59 <gmaxwell> Not quite. I'm saying that its often not obvious in a debugger. E.g. if I give you a service manual for a car and an electron microscope. Both may be not terribly great at teaching you its operation.
954 2013-01-24 23:43:01 <kuzetsa> turbo pascal for dos back in the 90s ... I've been spoiled I swear.
955 2013-01-24 23:43:19 <kuzetsa> huh?
956 2013-01-24 23:43:31 vampireb has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
957 2013-01-24 23:43:45 <kuzetsa> I know how to work breakpoints and whatnot... why would I have more problems than usual?
958 2013-01-24 23:43:49 <gmaxwell> In a non-trivial program with a lot of datastructures, concurrency, and indirection stepping through the code tends to only be enightening about details.
959 2013-01-24 23:44:02 <gmaxwell> I wish you luck. It just sounded pretty funny to me.
960 2013-01-24 23:44:18 * kuzetsa shrugs
961 2013-01-24 23:44:30 Diablo-D3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
962 2013-01-24 23:44:40 andytoshi has joined
963 2013-01-24 23:46:15 CodeShark has joined
964 2013-01-24 23:46:54 Diablo-D3 has joined
965 2013-01-24 23:49:11 t7 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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967 2013-01-24 23:51:29 darkskiez has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
968 2013-01-24 23:52:34 <dazboyy> anyone buying?
969 2013-01-24 23:53:17 <Diablo-D3> I imagine a lot of people are buying btc
970 2013-01-24 23:53:36 <dazboyy> well iam selling via paypal if anyones interested drop me a message
971 2013-01-24 23:54:00 <Diablo-D3> you're in the wrong channel
972 2013-01-24 23:54:03 darkskiez has joined
973 2013-01-24 23:54:05 <Diablo-D3> you want #bitcoin-otc
974 2013-01-24 23:56:11 dazboyy has quit ()
975 2013-01-24 23:56:22 <mappum> generally how often are there reorgs?