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5 2013-01-30 00:10:48 <andytoshi> guys, if i want to run a script everytime somebody sends something to an address, what would be the best way to do that?
6 2013-01-30 00:10:57 <andytoshi> does bitcoind have hooks? would there be demand for such hooks if i wrote them?
7 2013-01-30 00:12:04 <doublec> andytoshi: there's a command line switch to run a command when a block is received iirc
8 2013-01-30 00:12:19 <doublec> andytoshi: -blocknotify=<cmd>
9 2013-01-30 00:12:38 <andytoshi> doublec | andytoshi: there's a command line switch to run a command when a block is received iirc â cheako
10 2013-01-30 00:12:42 <andytoshi> doublec, thanks
11 2013-01-30 00:12:57 <andytoshi> sorry, i double-clicked your name to copy/paste it, and missed by half a line
12 2013-01-30 00:13:01 <doublec> andytoshi: you can use that to check getreceivedbyaddress or look inside the block for transactions, etc
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14 2013-01-30 00:13:39 <andytoshi> hmm, i'd prefer if bitcoind would just tell me everything
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16 2013-01-30 00:14:01 <Luke-Jr> andytoshi: it will, when you ask :P
17 2013-01-30 00:14:02 <andytoshi> i'd say "watch this account" and every transaction that changed the balance, it would throw a hunk of json at me
18 2013-01-30 00:14:19 <doublec> how would it throw the json at you
19 2013-01-30 00:14:24 <Luke-Jr> andytoshi: unfortunately, JSON-RPC is client-server
20 2013-01-30 00:14:25 <andytoshi> oh, good point :P
21 2013-01-30 00:14:43 <doublec> gavinandresen used to have a patch a couple of years ago that did that - it would connect back to a json-rpc server running in your app
22 2013-01-30 00:15:00 <andytoshi> doublec: not sure...i considered running a json-rpc server
23 2013-01-30 00:15:09 <andytoshi> but maybe there is a simpler way with named pipes or something
24 2013-01-30 00:15:15 <doublec> something like zeromq support would be nice. so it would push out data as things happen and people can connect
25 2013-01-30 00:15:34 <doublec> I added zeromq for block notifications a while back (predating -blocknotify=) for my pool
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29 2013-01-30 00:19:12 <doublec> andytoshi: http://cd.pn/zmq.patch if you're interested
30 2013-01-30 00:19:23 <andytoshi> my end goal is, a bitcoin-SMTP gateway
31 2013-01-30 00:19:26 <andytoshi> where it'd let me spend money as long as i can sign with my gpg key
32 2013-01-30 00:19:33 <andytoshi> thanks doublec, i'll check it out
33 2013-01-30 00:19:41 <andytoshi> ...and it'll email me when i receive money, etc
34 2013-01-30 00:24:16 <Scrat> doublec: very useful
35 2013-01-30 00:24:19 <Scrat> what version is that against?
36 2013-01-30 00:24:26 zooko has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
37 2013-01-30 00:25:06 <doublec> Scrat: 0.7.0 I think
38 2013-01-30 00:26:08 <Scrat> zmq 3.x?
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41 2013-01-30 00:28:07 <doublec> Scrat: oh right, 2.x but it's pretty simple - should work on 3.x too
42 2013-01-30 00:29:41 <Scrat> I hope zmq becomes more ubiquitous
43 2013-01-30 00:29:46 <Scrat> it's like TCP 2.0
44 2013-01-30 00:30:15 <doublec> yeah I like it.
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48 2013-01-30 01:05:34 <HM> the ubiquitousness of BSD sockets has been a blessing and a curse
49 2013-01-30 01:06:15 <HM> one thing i dislike about ZMQ though is the routing support is fairly lame
50 2013-01-30 01:06:27 <HM> you have to do your own routing. simple label based routing would be sufficient
51 2013-01-30 01:06:50 <HM> but hey, i guess it keeps things simple
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54 2013-01-30 01:34:08 <gavinandresen> andytoshi: see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1974 for a -walletnotify
55 2013-01-30 01:34:55 <gavinandresen> andytoshi: also be careful: if you accept 0-confirmation transactions you're asking for troubleâ¦.
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61 2013-01-30 01:46:13 <andytoshi> gavinandresen: good point, i'd probably want it not to tell me about transactions until they'd gotten a few confirms
62 2013-01-30 01:46:26 <andytoshi> but awesome, thanks
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69 2013-01-30 02:11:35 <midnightmagic> +1 gavinandresen
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74 2013-01-30 02:13:04 <jgarzik> reizuki__: [SUCCESS] Double Spend against a satoshidice loss - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130764.msg1489288#msg1489288
75 2013-01-30 02:13:14 * jgarzik kicks xchat autocomplete
76 2013-01-30 02:13:20 <jgarzik> [SUCCESS] Double Spend against a satoshidice loss - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130764.msg1489288#msg1489288
77 2013-01-30 02:14:36 <reizuki__> ?
78 2013-01-30 02:15:03 <gmaxwell> reizuki__: autocomplete bug.
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80 2013-01-30 02:21:39 * jgarzik typed/pasted "Re: " at the beginning, but xchat had other ideas
81 2013-01-30 02:22:06 * jgarzik should figure out if that can be turned off. If I want autocomplete, I'll <tab>, dammit.
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90 2013-01-30 02:31:24 <asoltys> hi, i created a multisig address in my bitcoind wallet. is there an easy way to figure out which component addresses it was created from?
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96 2013-01-30 02:42:36 <gavinandresen> asoltys: validateaddress will tell you
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99 2013-01-30 02:46:31 <asoltys> thanks gavinandresen
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143 2013-01-30 03:47:39 <gmaxwell> sipa: why doesn't bootstrap dat catting work without truncating? shouldn't the deserialziation code just find the next block?
144 2013-01-30 03:49:28 <sipa> yes, it should
145 2013-01-30 03:49:35 <sipa> meh :)
146 2013-01-30 03:50:58 <gavinandresen> FYI: I just pushed the python script I used to generate the seed nodes to contrib/seeds
147 2013-01-30 03:51:29 <gavinandresen> And⦠I think we're out of issues for a 0.8 release? I'll double check in the morning, then tag when I'm more alert
148 2013-01-30 03:51:36 fiesh has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
149 2013-01-30 03:51:38 <BlueMatt> woooo
150 2013-01-30 03:54:11 <sipa> gavinandresen: #2224 #2228 #2203 #2202 ?
151 2013-01-30 03:54:13 fiesh has joined
152 2013-01-30 03:54:18 <BlueMatt> awwwww
153 2013-01-30 03:54:31 Cryo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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155 2013-01-30 03:55:16 <gavinandresen> 2224 pulled....
156 2013-01-30 03:55:46 <gavinandresen> 2228 : I can live with
157 2013-01-30 03:56:12 <gavinandresen> (one-time "omg I have to wait 10 or 20 minutes to start getting caught up" is not a disaster)
158 2013-01-30 03:56:41 <sipa> i'm sure we'll get tons of "omfg my client is stuck!" reports because of it
159 2013-01-30 03:56:59 <BlueMatt> what ever happened with the complaints about block latency across the network?
160 2013-01-30 03:57:06 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: ^
161 2013-01-30 03:57:06 <gavinandresen> sipa: you think? If we do in rc1 we could spin a rc2 that fixes it....
162 2013-01-30 03:57:16 <sipa> ok
163 2013-01-30 03:57:22 <sipa> also, the last pulltester report of 2224 was failure to build (i "think" i fixed that, but there's no new report yet)
164 2013-01-30 03:57:30 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: still an unaddressed problem, more or less
165 2013-01-30 03:57:35 <gavinandresen> the reindex takes so long I think very few people will notice the extra 10 minutes
166 2013-01-30 03:57:44 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: but its still an issue plus/minus?
167 2013-01-30 03:57:48 Goonie has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
168 2013-01-30 03:58:02 <sipa> i think 0.8 will improve propagation speed a lot
169 2013-01-30 03:58:06 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: there's a major bug in the "open block file" code, but no sane pullreq to fix it yet (shouldn't be too hard to get a minimal fix done tho)
170 2013-01-30 03:58:20 <BlueMatt> sipa: what do I need to do to transfer jenkins to doing w64-based builds?
171 2013-01-30 03:58:22 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: yes, fixing it is very non-trivial unfortunately
172 2013-01-30 03:58:25 <sipa> Luke-Jr: strip your existing one to the first commit, and i'm ok with it
173 2013-01-30 03:58:31 <gavinandresen> 2203 I think we can live with, but it is such a trivial change it should probably just be done.
174 2013-01-30 03:58:37 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: ofc not, I was just wondering as Ive heard nothing about it any time recently
175 2013-01-30 03:58:42 <Luke-Jr> sipa: I'm not, that first commit looks like I was half asleep when I wrote it, IMO
176 2013-01-30 03:58:46 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: is that the if-block-files-are-read-only? I am ENOCARE on that
177 2013-01-30 03:59:05 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: and I know it was partially blamed for p2pool's dismal luck for a while, but now p2pool seems to not have that issue thanks to some other optimizations
178 2013-01-30 03:59:10 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: that was what prompted me to look at it, but the bug is general
179 2013-01-30 03:59:11 <petertodd> gavinandresen: FWIW the testnet seed patch I'm working on, although I'd say leave it for >0.8 myself
180 2013-01-30 03:59:11 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: well, p2pool solved it on its own.
181 2013-01-30 03:59:33 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: p2pool does the stuff we talked about wrt forwarding transactions in advance and then blocks only with the trees.
182 2013-01-30 03:59:40 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: ahhh
183 2013-01-30 04:00:03 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: what ever happened with your forray into a bitcoin backbone-ish stuff a while ago before moving on to bigger and better things?
184 2013-01-30 04:00:18 <gmaxwell> Because forrestv is an awesome one man network protocol coding machine.
185 2013-01-30 04:00:30 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yes
186 2013-01-30 04:00:55 <gavinandresen> sipa: 2202 is "would be nice, but not a showstopper" in my opinion-- we've never been very good at telling users what to do if their db get corrupt.
187 2013-01-30 04:01:35 <BlueMatt> FD: /me is looking more into bitcoin latency measurement/testing, partially as a research project
188 2013-01-30 04:01:44 <BlueMatt> /simulation
189 2013-01-30 04:02:07 <sipa> Luke-Jr: ok, can wait in that case
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191 2013-01-30 04:02:48 <sipa> gavinandresen: 2202 is trivial if any Qt-capable person would write a yes/no question function
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193 2013-01-30 04:03:35 <swhitt> can anyone help me figure out why https://blockchain.info/tx/3bf179dabbf819188f9001257234cc78b9dca909e6f5a3df15a50039c526851b hasn't been included in a block yet? 1 input, 2 outputs, 0.001 in txn fees
194 2013-01-30 04:03:57 <Luke-Jr> http://codepad.org/uLx2AI7Z feels sane to me now, but I'd not suggest merging it without someone else vetting ti
195 2013-01-30 04:03:58 <Luke-Jr> it*
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197 2013-01-30 04:05:54 <sipa> Luke-Jr: rb+ doesn't create the file
198 2013-01-30 04:06:01 <sipa> if it doesn't yet exist\
199 2013-01-30 04:06:27 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: built some backbone machines for exmulti, that's it
200 2013-01-30 04:06:29 <Luke-Jr> sigh, right⦠:/
201 2013-01-30 04:06:52 <sipa> rb / wb+ looks fine to me
202 2013-01-30 04:06:55 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: backbone did not look like it had a business model behind it. more suited to non-profit, it seemed like.
203 2013-01-30 04:06:56 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: built as in?
204 2013-01-30 04:07:04 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ahh, ok that was the issue
205 2013-01-30 04:07:16 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: 3 backbone machines actively running as public nodes under exMULTI aegis
206 2013-01-30 04:07:16 <Luke-Jr> sipa: you want to truncate it?
207 2013-01-30 04:07:22 <sipa> aargh no
208 2013-01-30 04:07:25 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: just as they have been for months
209 2013-01-30 04:07:33 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: yes, that I knew
210 2013-01-30 04:08:14 <sipa> Luke-Jr: rb / ab+, then? but that weird definition worries me
211 2013-01-30 04:08:23 <sipa> i guess the seek we do cancels that, but still
212 2013-01-30 04:09:54 <sipa> Luke-Jr: wait, it's probably mapped to O_APPEND in open(2), which is certainly not what we want
213 2013-01-30 04:10:16 <Luke-Jr> sipa: there was no sane combination IIRC
214 2013-01-30 04:11:00 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: did you happen to put a clean-up-old-pulls cron job on the pull-tester machine? I didn't....
215 2013-01-30 04:11:16 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: ahh, never got around to it, Ill dig it out of my .bash_history and throw it in cronrc now
216 2013-01-30 04:11:28 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: thanks
217 2013-01-30 04:11:38 <sipa> so it needs to be readonly=>rb readwrite=>rb+,wb+
218 2013-01-30 04:12:31 <Luke-Jr> sounds about right
219 2013-01-30 04:13:20 <Luke-Jr> that makes the original code look a lot more sane
220 2013-01-30 04:13:27 <Luke-Jr> http://codepad.org/burpOmmf
221 2013-01-30 04:14:32 <sipa> jgarzik: someone reported that just that one define fixed the problem
222 2013-01-30 04:14:58 <sipa> and _LARGEFILE64_SOURCE didn't
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224 2013-01-30 04:17:45 <jgarzik> sipa: _LARGEFILE64_SOURCE turns on O_LARGEFILE and guarantees 64-bit versions of various syscalls
225 2013-01-30 04:18:46 <jgarzik> sipa: adds struct stat64, fseek64, ... all 64-bit clean. So, probably not needed, as we don't use those. I'm trying to determine if it changes off_t.
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229 2013-01-30 04:21:01 <sipa> jgarzik: commented on the pullreq
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232 2013-01-30 04:23:07 <sipa> jgarzik: note that we don't ever need to actually do any 64-bit seek operations
233 2013-01-30 04:23:24 <sipa> it's just to support fopen opening a large file
234 2013-01-30 04:24:09 <asoltys> just playing with multisig, trying to create a transaction from a multisig address i created. anyone see what i'm doing wrong with my JSON here? http://paste.debian.net/230345/
235 2013-01-30 04:26:26 <etotheipi_> sipa: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130764.msg1489553#msg1489553
236 2013-01-30 04:26:42 <etotheipi_> it looks like someone is leveraging malleability for double-spending
237 2013-01-30 04:27:03 <jgarzik> etotheipi_: good thread
238 2013-01-30 04:27:10 <jgarzik> etotheipi_: was just reading dooglus's post
239 2013-01-30 04:27:19 <etotheipi_> but doesn't the OP_FALSE make this tx non-standard?
240 2013-01-30 04:27:26 <etotheipi_> so again, it would pretty much need the help of a miner
241 2013-01-30 04:27:32 <jgarzik> etotheipi_: ..precisely
242 2013-01-30 04:27:39 <jgarzik> which was always the case
243 2013-01-30 04:27:59 <gmaxwell> Most of the SD double spends have been based on making a payment to SD that will get mined slowly
244 2013-01-30 04:28:17 <etotheipi_> jgarzik: it doesn't have to be ...
245 2013-01-30 04:28:20 <sipa> etotheipi_: not an OP_FALSE; it's a 0x00 byte inside the signature
246 2013-01-30 04:28:37 <jgarzik> etotheipi_: it doesn't HAVE to be, but it is the path of least resistance
247 2013-01-30 04:28:56 <etotheipi_> if 10% of the network is pissed off and doesn't take SD tx, couldn't you just figure out who those are
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250 2013-01-30 04:29:09 <etotheipi_> place a bet with 90% of the network which that 10% will ignore
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252 2013-01-30 04:29:23 <etotheipi_> then if you don't like it, send your conflicting tx to the other 10%
253 2013-01-30 04:29:40 <etotheipi_> obviously, not guaranteed, but definitely could get your edge... but I don't know how much of the network is split like this
254 2013-01-30 04:29:42 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: yea thats already being done, it's mentioned in the old double spending thread.
255 2013-01-30 04:30:00 <gmaxwell> sipa: what additional pulls do you think we'll have in 0.8 before RC? I'd like to run some over night?
256 2013-01-30 04:30:27 <etotheipi_> gmaxwell: any idea how many miners have decided not to mine SD ?
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258 2013-01-30 04:31:00 <gavinandresen> asoltys: the hex txids have to be in double-quotes
259 2013-01-30 04:32:38 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: #2236 is the only pending pull that it is on my RC1 list
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261 2013-01-30 04:32:44 <gmaxwell> etotheipi_: I have no idea. I know its more than one.
262 2013-01-30 04:35:07 <gavinandresen> oh, just thought of this again: should we remove the "don't use for mining/merchant apps" warning? I think yes...
263 2013-01-30 04:35:28 <BlueMatt> maybe just reword it?
264 2013-01-30 04:35:39 <BlueMatt> does it not currently say pre-release test version?
265 2013-01-30 04:36:15 <gavinandresen> yeah, but "rc1" means "we think this is good enough to be a release."
266 2013-01-30 04:36:29 <BlueMatt> rc1 or 0.8beta
267 2013-01-30 04:36:35 <BlueMatt> we think this is good enough to be a beta release
268 2013-01-30 04:36:45 <sipa> yes, i think we can remove the warning for rc1
269 2013-01-30 04:36:55 <BlueMatt> s/or/of/
270 2013-01-30 04:38:03 <sipa> gmaxwell: i'd like to see hal/cointweaks/nativealloc still in, but i don't think gavin likes that :)
271 2013-01-30 04:39:31 <sipa> jeff's flow control/netmessage would also be nice, but i haven't tested it much after seeing a segfault from it
272 2013-01-30 04:39:53 <gmaxwell> I am imagining gavin thinking about murder. :P
273 2013-01-30 04:40:10 <gavinandresen> I'm thinking about going to sleep, and then murdering y'all tomorrow....
274 2013-01-30 04:40:28 <gmaxwell> leaving out Hal means that the next upgrade when we pull it we get a free nice x% performance improvement. :)
275 2013-01-30 04:41:06 <BlueMatt> does it have parallel sigchecking currently?
276 2013-01-30 04:41:23 <gavinandresen> I'm generally unexcited about x% performance improvements when x is less than about 30. and yes, it has parallel sigchecking
277 2013-01-30 04:43:06 <sipa> gmaxwell: i found out that in recent versions of openssl they actually reverted their specialized NIST code for applicable curves in favor of the generic assembly-optimized montgomery multiplication
278 2013-01-30 04:43:31 <sipa> gmaxwell: which i think means that it's very hard to beat that without going for specialized+assembly code
279 2013-01-30 04:44:13 <gmaxwell> sipa: I wonder if that was it for performance or because the NIST code for some of the fields (the characteristic 2 ones) requires a certicom patent (at least according to certicom)?
280 2013-01-30 04:44:23 <sipa> gmaxwell: performance
281 2013-01-30 04:44:55 <gmaxwell> Interesting.
282 2013-01-30 04:45:01 <sipa> there's still the extra-specialized code for NIST224/256, which has specialized datastructures with 26 bits per uint32 and stuff
283 2013-01-30 04:45:24 <sipa> (instead of just code specialized for doing the field multiplication)
284 2013-01-30 04:46:06 <gmaxwell> I wonder if fast asm specialized ECDSA validation code is the sort of thing that could be reasonably bountied. Esp with a bounty proportional to the improvement. (like http://prize.hutter1.net/ )
285 2013-01-30 04:47:45 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: who's going to audit it for subtle backdoors?
286 2013-01-30 04:48:35 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: at least have two bounties...
287 2013-01-30 04:48:43 <sipa> Luke-Jr: you should always be able to "augment" it with code to extract the intermediate values being computed, and compare those to another ECDSA verifier
288 2013-01-30 04:48:43 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: s'not like thats a new problem. Ignoring the fact that there is all kinds of crazy optimizations going into openssl doesn't make the issue go away.
289 2013-01-30 04:49:31 <sipa> Luke-Jr: as the optimizations are about data structures and low-level mathematical operations being improved, and changing the actual high-level ECDSA algorithm
290 2013-01-30 04:49:40 <sipa> s/and/NOT/
291 2013-01-30 04:50:36 <petertodd> sipa: IIRC you wrote something to have Hal's signature checking run in parallel with the existing one
292 2013-01-30 04:50:36 <gmaxwell> In any case, you'd put a deadzone around zero on the bounty, so the speedup has to actually be enough to spend some time reviewing it before it gets paid in any case.
293 2013-01-30 04:51:04 <sipa> petertodd: correct
294 2013-01-30 04:51:45 <sipa> petertodd: which is why i trust it reasonably well now
295 2013-01-30 04:51:56 <BlueMatt> it would be nice to have a fuzzer, not just run on known-good signatures
296 2013-01-30 04:52:09 <BlueMatt> s/known-good/standardly generated
297 2013-01-30 04:52:22 <sipa> well, it's not just doing both ECDSA verifications and comparing the boolean outcoming
298 2013-01-30 04:52:40 <sipa> but comparing the intermediate values
299 2013-01-30 04:52:49 <BlueMatt> ok, but still
300 2013-01-30 04:52:50 <gmaxwell> And IIRC sipa did fuzz it.
301 2013-01-30 04:52:56 <gmaxwell> (or am I remembering another change?)
302 2013-01-30 04:53:04 <sipa> i fuzzed something
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304 2013-01-30 04:53:13 <gmaxwell> maybe it was the canonical vs openssl
305 2013-01-30 04:53:18 <sipa> i think that was the canonical, indeed
306 2013-01-30 04:54:06 <petertodd> reminds me, has piuk ever offered the non-std tx data his big collection of nodes is getting? could be useful real-world fuzz material
307 2013-01-30 04:54:15 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: not an awful idea, but unfortunately the nastiest issues would end up being really subtle and never hit by a fuzzer, things like -s%p
308 2013-01-30 04:54:26 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: true
309 2013-01-30 04:55:07 <gmaxwell> (Generally fuzzing sucks: BUT it's non-human, and so it finds the really easy issues which are still invisible to humans)
310 2013-01-30 04:57:24 <BlueMatt> hmm...well in any case fuzzing testing intermediate values and maybe weighting towards extremes...I dunno
311 2013-01-30 04:57:30 <BlueMatt> never know
312 2013-01-30 04:58:45 <BlueMatt> anyway, before release I have 5 or 10 more block/tx tests to get added
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315 2013-01-30 05:11:14 <sipa> gmaxwell: there, fuzzer added
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326 2013-01-30 05:54:48 <asoltys> can I get the redeemscript for a multisigaddress in my wallet that i created with "addmultisigaddress" rather than "createmultisig"?
327 2013-01-30 05:59:33 <petertodd> asoltys: I think the only way is to get the pubkeys used to make it with validateaddress, then recreate the redeemscript with createmultisig again
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356 2013-01-30 06:48:52 <asoltys> petertodd: ah ok, thanks
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361 2013-01-30 06:53:59 <asoltys> yeehaw, my first multisig transaction: https://blockchain.info/tx/9d969e69b4c942cf26e07cf3d60a2a64b4e1909d6f89a2143890858b56f3263c thanks for the help folks, calling it quits for tonight
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399 2013-01-30 08:24:49 <SomeoneWeird> hmm, what's the tool to bruteforce priv addresses again?
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406 2013-01-30 08:35:43 <SomeoneWeird> uh, public addresses, actually
407 2013-01-30 08:36:47 <SomeoneWeird> nevermind, vanitygen
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416 2013-01-30 09:18:31 <osmosis> in bitcoin-qt, in the send dialog I can enter in a greater number of bitcoins then even exists in the wallet, or a greater number of bitcoins then will ever exist even, click send, it says 'are you sure you want to send', then 'this operation needs your wallet passphrase'. I didnt go past that step. Shouldnt it just say invalid amount first?
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507 2013-01-30 13:40:51 <paul0> wow, bitcoin is using more than 6gb of disk space
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509 2013-01-30 13:46:06 <panzer> mine is over 8gb
510 2013-01-30 13:46:55 <epscy> mine is 6.8
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540 2013-01-30 14:29:14 <helo> since the default policy in windows is to automatically hibernate after 10 minutes or idleness, will all of those machines be a consistent net loss on the network?
541 2013-01-30 14:29:42 <helo> s/or/of/
542 2013-01-30 14:33:04 <Luke-Jr> helo: presumably; but is that really a default policy?
543 2013-01-30 14:33:09 <Luke-Jr> sounds more like a battery policy
544 2013-01-30 14:36:27 <helo> that's the default behavior of my windows 8 install
545 2013-01-30 14:36:34 <helo> on a normal desktop
546 2013-01-30 14:36:48 <SomeoneWeird> yeah, its default Luke-Jr
547 2013-01-30 14:36:49 <SomeoneWeird> it's stupid
548 2013-01-30 14:36:56 <SomeoneWeird> for win8
549 2013-01-30 14:37:05 <helo> can't get my steam games installed, can't get the blockchain synched
550 2013-01-30 14:37:10 zooko` has joined
551 2013-01-30 14:37:12 <Luke-Jr> sigh
552 2013-01-30 14:37:14 <SomeoneWeird> just disable it
553 2013-01-30 14:37:19 <SomeoneWeird> go into power settings or something
554 2013-01-30 14:37:22 <sipa> helo: so disable it?
555 2013-01-30 14:37:29 <sipa> first thing i do on a windows system
556 2013-01-30 14:37:34 <SomeoneWeird> yap
557 2013-01-30 14:37:40 <sipa> (haven't ever touched win8 though)
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562 2013-01-30 14:39:36 <helo> yeah, i could do that. i'm more interested in how this will impact the network. should windows 8 installs stop in spv mode?
563 2013-01-30 14:40:18 <Luke-Jr> it might make sense to find out if Bitcoin-Qt can inhibit default-sleep during IBD at least
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565 2013-01-30 14:41:00 <sipa> you mean actually hibernate while just up and running?
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567 2013-01-30 14:42:38 <helo> as a power saving mechanism, it seems like a reasonable policy... i wouldn't be surprised if most desktop systems started doing the same
568 2013-01-30 14:43:04 <SomeoneWeird> sipa when it hasn't been used, yeah
569 2013-01-30 14:43:10 <Luke-Jr> SetThreadExecutionState(ES_AWAYMODE_REQUIRED | ES_CONTINUOUS | ES_SYSTEM_REQUIRED);
570 2013-01-30 14:43:14 <helo> once you start calculating the carbon footprint and total energy saved by default hibernate, i bet it's hard to argue against
571 2013-01-30 14:43:19 <Luke-Jr> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/629240/prevent-windows-from-going-into-sleep-when-my-program-is-running
572 2013-01-30 14:43:22 <sipa> not like a laptop with the lid closed or anything?
573 2013-01-30 14:43:37 <SomeoneWeird> not does it to my families desktop
574 2013-01-30 14:43:39 <helo> sipa: yeah... instead of just sleeping the monitor as with previous releases, it hibernates
575 2013-01-30 14:43:57 <SomeoneWeird> yeah
576 2013-01-30 14:44:02 <SomeoneWeird> thankgod i don't use windows
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582 2013-01-30 14:52:04 <epscy> how many full nodes are running on windows?
583 2013-01-30 14:52:29 <epscy> like all the time
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587 2013-01-30 15:05:11 <helo> who would be able to see the release download stats for various platforms?
588 2013-01-30 15:05:39 <helo> BlueMatt?
589 2013-01-30 15:06:01 <HM> worrying about carbon footprint for an application that must chew up cpu constantly crunching digital signitures ...
590 2013-01-30 15:07:19 Hasimir has quit (Quit: Vidi, Vici, Veni.)
591 2013-01-30 15:07:42 <MC1984> epscy i got one
592 2013-01-30 15:08:47 <helo> HM: i was just asking about the impact on the network of win8's default-hibernate policy
593 2013-01-30 15:09:23 paul0 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
594 2013-01-30 15:10:52 <epscy> it's cool that anyone can run it at home on a windows box
595 2013-01-30 15:11:02 <sipa> helo: for the binaries? just check sourceforge download page?
596 2013-01-30 15:11:06 rdymac has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
597 2013-01-30 15:11:24 <MC1984> another reason to start in spv mode and upgrade to full at your leisure?
598 2013-01-30 15:11:27 <epscy> but realistically, i think it the future even non mining full nodes will be on a server in a dataceter somewhere
599 2013-01-30 15:11:39 <epscy> *in the future
600 2013-01-30 15:11:51 <sipa> if the max block chain size is increased, probably
601 2013-01-30 15:12:12 <SomeoneWeird> whats spv?
602 2013-01-30 15:12:26 <sipa> lightweight mode, like what multibit does
603 2013-01-30 15:12:31 paul0 has joined
604 2013-01-30 15:12:33 <SomeoneWeird> oh, ic
605 2013-01-30 15:12:36 <sipa> only validate block headers, but not transactions
606 2013-01-30 15:12:40 <SomeoneWeird> qt can do that now?
607 2013-01-30 15:15:11 <Luke-Jr> no
608 2013-01-30 15:15:12 <sipa> no
609 2013-01-30 15:15:30 <SomeoneWeird> bitcoind?
610 2013-01-30 15:15:48 <SomeoneWeird> no wonder i was confused lol
611 2013-01-30 15:15:58 <sipa> no
612 2013-01-30 15:16:07 <SomeoneWeird> i didn't think it could/would
613 2013-01-30 15:16:10 <helo> sipa: and the ppa
614 2013-01-30 15:16:11 <sipa> afaik multiple and bitcoin wallet for android
615 2013-01-30 15:16:19 <sipa> ppa?
616 2013-01-30 15:16:20 zooko`` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
617 2013-01-30 15:16:39 <sipa> s/multiple/multibit/
618 2013-01-30 15:16:40 <helo> the delivery mechanism for ubuntu users
619 2013-01-30 15:16:52 <SomeoneWeird> lol
620 2013-01-30 15:16:56 <SomeoneWeird> isnt the ppa horribly outdated
621 2013-01-30 15:17:02 <helo> no
622 2013-01-30 15:17:16 <helo> it was up to date the last time i used it
623 2013-01-30 15:17:33 <helo> i'm pretty sure it is on 0.7.2
624 2013-01-30 15:17:43 <sipa> yes, what about that?
625 2013-01-30 15:18:57 spenvo has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
626 2013-01-30 15:18:59 paul0 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
627 2013-01-30 15:19:59 <gavinandresen> sipa: can you https://gist.github.com/4673845 to pull 2236? (add _LARGE_FILE_OFFSET to bitcoin.qt.pro file)
628 2013-01-30 15:21:00 porquilho has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
629 2013-01-30 15:22:24 porquilho has joined
630 2013-01-30 15:22:28 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
631 2013-01-30 15:23:36 <sipa> gavinandresen: done
632 2013-01-30 15:23:59 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
633 2013-01-30 15:24:12 <gavinandresen> sipa: thanks! I'm working on 0.8 release notes...
634 2013-01-30 15:24:28 b4epoche has joined
635 2013-01-30 15:24:50 <sipa> gavinandresen: -reindex crashing when no blocks are present is worth looking into
636 2013-01-30 15:24:56 <sipa> as reported by Diapolo
637 2013-01-30 15:26:07 <gavinandresen> sipa: ok, will do. I want to get a release notes draft written first, then there are a few loose ends before tagging the tree and spinning a release
638 2013-01-30 15:26:13 Hashdog has joined
639 2013-01-30 15:26:27 <sipa> good
640 2013-01-30 15:26:35 <jgarzik> I went ahead and pulled the dir name change stuff
641 2013-01-30 15:26:46 <sipa> #2224 added some new translatable strings
642 2013-01-30 15:27:08 <sipa> so i guess a translations update is useful
643 2013-01-30 15:27:15 <gavinandresen> I think for rc1 I'll add a note about the dir name change, letting people know what to move so they don't have to reindex
644 2013-01-30 15:27:28 <gavinandresen> (letting pre-rc people knowâ¦)
645 2013-01-30 15:27:41 <sipa> right, that shouldn't go into final release release notes, but for rc's it's useful
646 2013-01-30 15:28:21 <sipa> also mention that the undo file format changed at some point, so you may see errors at startup during block validation (fixed by a -reindex)
647 2013-01-30 15:29:10 <jgarzik> it's only for pre-release hackers
648 2013-01-30 15:29:17 <sipa> sure
649 2013-01-30 15:29:20 <jgarzik> just add a note "if you ran pre-0.8, delete your public data"
650 2013-01-30 15:29:37 <jgarzik> just add a note "if you ran pre-0.8, delete your public data, we changed dir names and file formats"
651 2013-01-30 15:31:05 <sipa> perhaps it's useful (just for rcs) to have a list of all file names and directory names that have existed, so people can judge what can be deleted and what not
652 2013-01-30 15:31:37 paul0 has joined
653 2013-01-30 15:31:43 zooko`` has joined
654 2013-01-30 15:31:48 paul0 has quit (Client Quit)
655 2013-01-30 15:32:10 zooko`` is now known as zooko
656 2013-01-30 15:32:12 <Luke-Jr> hmm
657 2013-01-30 15:32:36 <Luke-Jr> does bitcoind build (specifically, libleveldb.a) if you don't build Bitcoin-Qt first?
658 2013-01-30 15:32:48 <Luke-Jr> I'm getting db/builder.cc:5:24: fatal error: db/builder.h: No such file or directory
659 2013-01-30 15:32:55 <Luke-Jr> (even before the pullreq I'm working on)
660 2013-01-30 15:37:13 andytoshi has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2)
661 2013-01-30 15:39:24 <jgarzik> sipa:indeed
662 2013-01-30 15:40:09 pooler has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
663 2013-01-30 15:42:26 <Luke-Jr> blah, it's losing its compiler options -.-
664 2013-01-30 15:42:29 DamascusVG has joined
665 2013-01-30 15:42:30 DamascusVG has quit (Changing host)
666 2013-01-30 15:42:30 DamascusVG has joined
667 2013-01-30 15:46:46 <gavinandresen> How long does the after-upgrade reindex take on a typical machine? Half an hour?
668 2013-01-30 15:48:03 EPiSKiNG- has quit ()
669 2013-01-30 15:48:14 <MC1984> what is a typical macine for bitcoin
670 2013-01-30 15:48:33 <MC1984> dual core at least?
671 2013-01-30 15:48:37 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: pretty sure the reindex I just completed took about 20 hours..
672 2013-01-30 15:48:54 <Luke-Jr> but I did have it ionice'd down
673 2013-01-30 15:50:33 HM has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
674 2013-01-30 15:51:25 HM has joined
675 2013-01-30 15:55:07 mappum has joined
676 2013-01-30 15:56:25 <sipa> Luke-Jr: lolwut?
677 2013-01-30 15:57:28 HM has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
678 2013-01-30 15:57:37 <Luke-Jr> ok, I think #2241 is ready for review finally
679 2013-01-30 15:57:43 <sipa> gavinandresen: https://gist.github.com/4674095
680 2013-01-30 15:58:14 HM has joined
681 2013-01-30 15:59:58 dlb76 has quit ()
682 2013-01-30 16:00:00 <gavinandresen> sipa: ACK. That's too much detail for the release notes, but good info to put in a forum thread, I think
683 2013-01-30 16:00:10 <sipa> gavinandresen: or perhaps in a docs/FILES
684 2013-01-30 16:00:44 <gavinandresen> sipa: okey dokey
685 2013-01-30 16:01:37 PhantomSpark has joined
686 2013-01-30 16:02:18 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: This is intended for 0.8, would be nice to get testing in rc1: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2241
687 2013-01-30 16:03:24 JDuke128 has quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
688 2013-01-30 16:03:26 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: too late for 0.8.0
689 2013-01-30 16:03:42 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: without at least the first commit, bitcoind doesn't build for me, FWIW
690 2013-01-30 16:03:49 <gavinandresen> okey dokey
691 2013-01-30 16:04:25 <Luke-Jr> I suppose I can try to split out the other fixes from the system leveldb bit
692 2013-01-30 16:17:19 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: k, strictly build bugfixes moved to https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2243
693 2013-01-30 16:17:27 <Luke-Jr> will remake 2241 on top of that
694 2013-01-30 16:17:29 <sipa> Luke-Jr: leveldb does += to CXXFLAGS, it shouldn't clobber things?
695 2013-01-30 16:17:41 <Luke-Jr> sipa: make's += doesn't work like that, sadly
696 2013-01-30 16:18:04 <Luke-Jr> sipa: user-provided variables overwrite makefile-provided ones after the makefile sets them up
697 2013-01-30 16:19:00 <sipa> bah
698 2013-01-30 16:20:16 porquilho has quit ()
699 2013-01-30 16:20:34 <SomeoneWeird> that's stupid
700 2013-01-30 16:21:30 <sipa> Luke-Jr: will that work? CXXFLAGS is set by build_config.mk
701 2013-01-30 16:21:59 <Luke-Jr> sipa: not mine? :o
702 2013-01-30 16:22:13 LargoG has joined
703 2013-01-30 16:23:02 <sipa> only PLATFORM_CXXFLAGS indeed, good
704 2013-01-30 16:23:38 <sipa> anyway, the xCXXFLAGS thing can be = instead of +=, no?
705 2013-01-30 16:24:03 porquilho has joined
706 2013-01-30 16:24:08 <Luke-Jr> sipa: could be, sure
707 2013-01-30 16:24:42 <Luke-Jr> sipa: do you want me to go back and change that?
708 2013-01-30 16:25:17 <sipa> += is just slightly more confusing for a reader, as it seems to imply an existing value is being appended to
709 2013-01-30 16:26:32 <Luke-Jr> I wonder if I should do the same for LDFLAGS too, since that's also a standard var
710 2013-01-30 16:26:50 grau has joined
711 2013-01-30 16:27:28 MrTiggr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
712 2013-01-30 16:28:13 <Luke-Jr> sipa: pushed adjusted code
713 2013-01-30 16:37:14 tonikt has joined
714 2013-01-30 16:38:07 panzerfaust has joined
715 2013-01-30 16:38:19 panzer has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
716 2013-01-30 16:43:22 <t7> "64GB MS Surface Pro Only Has 23GB of Free Space"
717 2013-01-30 16:43:28 panzerfaust is now known as panzer
718 2013-01-30 16:43:30 <t7> wrong channel soz
719 2013-01-30 16:52:21 swappermall_ has joined
720 2013-01-30 16:52:48 <gavinandresen> â¦. man there are a lot of changes to wade through in 0.8 ....
721 2013-01-30 16:54:39 <TD_> only a handful of interest to end users though, no
722 2013-01-30 16:55:22 <sipa> gavinandresen: 268 non-merge commits
723 2013-01-30 16:55:47 <sipa> v0.6.0..v0.7.0 had 697 it seems :o
724 2013-01-30 16:56:17 <gavinandresen> TD_ : yeah, the time-consuming part is deciding what is release-note-worthy and what is not
725 2013-01-30 16:57:34 da2ce7_d has joined
726 2013-01-30 16:59:39 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
727 2013-01-30 16:59:49 <gavinandresen> I'm waffling on whether or not to mention the 0-confirmation lockTime attack / fixâ¦.
728 2013-01-30 17:00:39 <SomeoneWeird> was it fixed?
729 2013-01-30 17:00:45 <gavinandresen> yes
730 2013-01-30 17:00:51 <SomeoneWeird> then I don't see why not
731 2013-01-30 17:00:59 <gavinandresen> ⦠there are still plenty of other ways to double-spend 0-conf transactions, though
732 2013-01-30 17:01:05 <TD_> indeed
733 2013-01-30 17:01:07 <SomeoneWeird> ofc
734 2013-01-30 17:01:27 <ThomasV> what was the attack?
735 2013-01-30 17:01:28 <SomeoneWeird> maybe those should be fixed :P
736 2013-01-30 17:01:35 <Luke-Jr> SomeoneWeird: the bug wasn't really in Bitcoin-Qt
737 2013-01-30 17:01:58 <TD_> apps that people are building, which use 0-confirm txns, aren't doing sufficient risk analysis
738 2013-01-30 17:02:01 <TD_> (in a few cases anyway)
739 2013-01-30 17:02:08 <TD_> satoshidice has been hit by a few double spends because of that
740 2013-01-30 17:02:12 <Luke-Jr> basically it was disabling a feature that was useless (and inaccessible), until it has a use
741 2013-01-30 17:02:17 <sipa> i'd certainly mention new/changed command-line flags: -par (if your CPU fan goes too loud, use -par=1), -dbcache (setting it higher speeds up IBD, up to a few hundred), -checklevel (modified meaning), -nocheckpoints, -reindex, -txindex (if you want getrawtransaction)
742 2013-01-30 17:02:20 <gavinandresen> mmm, some of the 0-conf attacks can be mitigated, but we'll always have the FInney attack
743 2013-01-30 17:02:38 bitafterbit has joined
744 2013-01-30 17:02:51 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: mention it
745 2013-01-30 17:03:06 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: but include a big honking "0 conf is simply not secure, and we've always known that" disclaimer
746 2013-01-30 17:03:45 <TD_> gavinandresen: yes, but you can measure and handle that sort of risk
747 2013-01-30 17:03:50 <jgarzik> The more complicated answer is "know your risk profile and underlying tech 100%"
748 2013-01-30 17:03:52 <jgarzik> but few do
749 2013-01-30 17:03:56 <sipa> exactly
750 2013-01-30 17:04:00 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: that's what I decided: https://gist.github.com/4674571
751 2013-01-30 17:04:02 <TD_> the double spend i investigated against SD boiled down to "pool operator decided to deliberately exclude SD transactions to resolve a deadlock"
752 2013-01-30 17:04:13 <TD_> merchants that don't insist on using public, fixed addresses wouldn't have that issue
753 2013-01-30 17:04:25 <jgarzik> if you are sophisticated enough to understand _all_ zero conf recommendations, you are sophisticated enough to ignore $Conventional_Wisdom
754 2013-01-30 17:04:36 <jgarzik> $Conventional_Wisdom should be simple: don't do it
755 2013-01-30 17:04:37 TD_ is now known as TD
756 2013-01-30 17:04:40 <sipa> jgarzik: exactly
757 2013-01-30 17:04:55 <TD> the problem is, this would get internalized by end users and then Bitcoin will get a reputation as "that thing where you have to wait for 10 minutes to receive money"
758 2013-01-30 17:05:09 <TD> when many, many people are not in a position where they have to worry about Finney attacks
759 2013-01-30 17:05:25 <jgarzik> many, many people are not qualified to know if they are impacted
760 2013-01-30 17:05:28 <TD> (eg, anyone who is selling burgers/doing in person currency trades, etc)
761 2013-01-30 17:05:28 <TD> sure
762 2013-01-30 17:05:31 <TD> but we can work on that over time
763 2013-01-30 17:05:33 <jgarzik> let providers handle knowing that for them
764 2013-01-30 17:05:48 * gavinandresen mumbles experiment, only risk time or money blah blah blah....
765 2013-01-30 17:05:49 <TD> what providers?
766 2013-01-30 17:05:54 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: +1
767 2013-01-30 17:06:25 <jgarzik> TD: the ecosystem is simply not mature enough to do as you suggest
768 2013-01-30 17:06:56 <jgarzik> TD: once people are less using the Base Layer directly, and instead using third parties to transact instantly etc. the picture changes
769 2013-01-30 17:07:18 <TD> what third parties?
770 2013-01-30 17:07:26 <TD> the entire point of bitcoin is you don't need third parties
771 2013-01-30 17:08:10 <sipa> well, i do agree with the fact that saying "don't do 0-conf transactions" implies "bitcoin: receving money takes hours", while it should be "receiving money is instant, being sure it won't get reverted takes hours"
772 2013-01-30 17:08:29 <sipa> but at the same time, very few are in a position where they can reason about the risks
773 2013-01-30 17:08:30 <TD> that's no different, from the regular users perspective.
774 2013-01-30 17:08:43 <TD> yes, that's true. but that's partly because we have such a crap website :)
775 2013-01-30 17:08:51 <gavinandresen> "patches welcome"
776 2013-01-30 17:08:56 <TD> for instance, i'll go out on a limb and say any user of the Android wallet is not at risk
777 2013-01-30 17:09:28 <TD> i'm not even sure it makes sense to show unconfirmed vs confirmed state there. that said, i still haven't finished allowing those users to spend unconfirmed change.
778 2013-01-30 17:09:31 <TD> so i guess it still matters :)
779 2013-01-30 17:09:42 <gavinandresen> sipa: re: new command-line options: ACK on dbache / par / txindex⦠I think the others aren't useful enough to be release-note-worthy
780 2013-01-30 17:10:40 <sipa> gavinandresen: i think -reindex too
781 2013-01-30 17:10:53 <sipa> gavinandresen: -nocheckpoints and -checklevel are indeed more for powerusers
782 2013-01-30 17:11:31 <gavinandresen> ok, -reindex too
783 2013-01-30 17:13:58 <gavinandresen> FYI: initial upgrade reindex looks like it took over an hour on my main machine (default settings for -dbcache)
784 2013-01-30 17:15:10 <sipa> how much of that is past 210k?
785 2013-01-30 17:16:39 <Luke-Jr> can't mention txindex without reindex :P
786 2013-01-30 17:18:05 <sipa> tru
787 2013-01-30 17:19:55 sgstair has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
788 2013-01-30 17:20:20 <MC1984> what does checklevel do
789 2013-01-30 17:20:52 <sipa> MC1984: degree of validation that is done to the block chain database at startup
790 2013-01-30 17:21:37 <sipa> there used to be 7 levels (0-6), now there are 5 - but their meaning is very different (level 3 is now stronger than the previous level 6)
791 2013-01-30 17:21:38 <SomeoneWeird> on startup it checks every block it downloads before it saves it, right?
792 2013-01-30 17:21:59 <MC1984> oh i thought you either had checkpoints or you didnt
793 2013-01-30 17:22:17 <sipa> MC1984: checkpoints have nothing to do with it, those are just hardcoded block hashes
794 2013-01-30 17:22:29 <sipa> SomeoneWeird: 'on startup' and 'it downloads' contradict eachother
795 2013-01-30 17:23:00 <SomeoneWeird> right, when it downloads a block it validated it before saving, correct?
796 2013-01-30 17:23:10 <sipa> short answer: yes
797 2013-01-30 17:23:37 <MC1984> in light of this, is there a standard for doing benchmarks then
798 2013-01-30 17:23:46 <sipa> longer answer: validation happens in several stages, and a block is stored on disk as soon as a part of them are satisfied, but full transaction checking is only done afterwards
799 2013-01-30 17:24:07 <SomeoneWeird> ah, ic
800 2013-01-30 17:24:41 eckey has joined
801 2013-01-30 17:24:49 <sipa> SomeoneWeird: -checkblocks and -checklevel only control the checks done at startup (which are by definition redundant, but they protect against disk errors corrupting your database, for example)
802 2013-01-30 17:24:52 <eckey> I'm using Bitcoin-Qt 0.7.1 on OSX 10.8.2. When I 'Quit' the process, it hangs around for over 10 minutes, clocking about 5% CPU. Is this normal?
803 2013-01-30 17:25:32 <CodeShark> what's the CPU like before you quit?
804 2013-01-30 17:25:36 JZavala has joined
805 2013-01-30 17:26:16 <eckey> don't know, I'd have to start it. I'm on my way to the Apple store to have them look at the disk
806 2013-01-30 17:26:58 <CodeShark> the disk giving you problems in other apps?
807 2013-01-30 17:27:14 <eckey> for a period during the 10 minutes, the system is completely locked
808 2013-01-30 17:27:30 <CodeShark> even aqua?
809 2013-01-30 17:27:30 <eckey> don't think so but not sure
810 2013-01-30 17:27:44 <eckey> aqua?
811 2013-01-30 17:27:51 <CodeShark> the desktop
812 2013-01-30 17:28:01 <CodeShark> if you click on other apps, it doesn't bring them into focus?
813 2013-01-30 17:28:22 <eckey> correct, all i have is the bouncing beach ball
814 2013-01-30 17:28:35 <eckey> no command-tab or clicking to other apps
815 2013-01-30 17:29:07 bitnumus has joined
816 2013-01-30 17:29:49 <CodeShark> is your block chain db synched?
817 2013-01-30 17:30:41 <eckey> when i start it it has to catch up the blocks it missed while down.
818 2013-01-30 17:31:18 <eckey> what do you mean db?
819 2013-01-30 17:31:28 vampireb has joined
820 2013-01-30 17:31:30 <CodeShark> yes, that
821 2013-01-30 17:32:15 <eckey> this morning it had to catch up 100+ blocks because it wasn't running overnight
822 2013-01-30 17:32:19 topace has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
823 2013-01-30 17:32:27 <eckey> but it didn't have to load the entire chain
824 2013-01-30 17:32:36 <ThomasV> when a transaction is in the memory pool but never confirms, the user really gets punished. I wish there was a way to increase the fee.
825 2013-01-30 17:32:46 <ThomasV> (ie non-final transactions)
826 2013-01-30 17:32:49 topace has joined
827 2013-01-30 17:33:03 <jgarzik> expire TXs from memory pool
828 2013-01-30 17:33:10 <jgarzik> if they don't make it into a block within X time
829 2013-01-30 17:33:10 <jgarzik> :)
830 2013-01-30 17:33:12 topace is now known as Guest68523
831 2013-01-30 17:33:21 <CodeShark> let me know when you've tested the CPU pre-quit, eckey - I'm wondering why that's happening
832 2013-01-30 17:33:40 <ThomasV> jgarzik: is there a way to do that currently?
833 2013-01-30 17:33:40 <eckey> so it's not normal?
834 2013-01-30 17:33:49 <jgarzik> ThomasV: That's been my open proposal for a while, and nobody has really disagreed.. It is mainly waiting on implementation
835 2013-01-30 17:33:53 <CodeShark> it shouldn't happen, no, eckey
836 2013-01-30 17:33:55 <jgarzik> clients MUST retransmit
837 2013-01-30 17:33:58 <jgarzik> until making it into a block
838 2013-01-30 17:33:59 <sipa> jgarzik: that may help (and i'm not against it), but it's very easy to attack
839 2013-01-30 17:34:08 <sipa> so it's not a full solution
840 2013-01-30 17:34:12 <jgarzik> agreed
841 2013-01-30 17:34:37 <eckey> code: i'm on my way to the Apple store to have them look at the hardware. thanks for your help. i'll check in later.
842 2013-01-30 17:34:39 <sipa> a better one is using prio calculations together with unconfirmed parents, and add child transactions that change chance into fee
843 2013-01-30 17:34:42 <jgarzik> it's not meant as attack prevention primarily, but to make memory pool behavior more deterministic over time, as this behavior is adopted
844 2013-01-30 17:35:07 eckey has left ()
845 2013-01-30 17:35:09 <jgarzik> eventually you will _know_ when you can cancel a transaction, to a high degree of certainty [once this behavior is adopted, as mentioned]
846 2013-01-30 17:35:12 <sipa> s/chance/change/
847 2013-01-30 17:35:21 <sipa> no, it's never _know_
848 2013-01-30 17:35:41 <ThomasV> jgarzik: how long are transactions retransmitted?
849 2013-01-30 17:35:49 <sipa> ThomasV: forever
850 2013-01-30 17:35:50 <jgarzik> "to a high degree" (indicating a probabilistic answer)
851 2013-01-30 17:35:59 <sipa> ThomasV: until they confirm
852 2013-01-30 17:35:59 <jgarzik> ThomasV: until they make it into a block
853 2013-01-30 17:36:07 <ThomasV> hmm
854 2013-01-30 17:36:22 <sipa> and that is even if there is already a conflicting transaction in the chain
855 2013-01-30 17:36:31 <sipa> (which is a bug, imho)
856 2013-01-30 17:37:21 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: you didn't see anything notable in Qt 4.8.4 worth upgrading to it? unless I'm reading the notes wrong, it adds support for Windows 8 (suggesting previous versions have some problem(s) on it?)
857 2013-01-30 17:37:22 imsaguy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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859 2013-01-30 17:38:48 <gavinandresen> no, I saw nothing in the release notes that made me think we needed to upgrade to Qt 4.8.4. And I'm not aware of any issues on Windows 8 for the subset of Qt that we use
860 2013-01-30 17:39:13 <ThomasV> sipa: if I create another tx that depends on my low priority pending tx, and the 2nd tx has a huge fee, will miners currently detect it, and will it speed up the first tx?
861 2013-01-30 17:39:23 JDuke128 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
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864 2013-01-30 17:40:11 <ThomasV> this could be a way to solve it
865 2013-01-30 17:40:32 Guest68523 has quit (Read error: No route to host)
866 2013-01-30 17:40:36 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: ah, true. I guess there's a lot of Qt we don't use.
867 2013-01-30 17:40:42 <sipa> ThomasV: no, that's exactly what i'm saying
868 2013-01-30 17:40:57 <sipa> that's not done now (Luke has a pullreq to do this, though)
869 2013-01-30 17:40:57 Guest68523 has joined
870 2013-01-30 17:41:01 <sipa> but it should be
871 2013-01-30 17:41:03 <ThomasV> sipa: right, got it now
872 2013-01-30 17:41:17 <sipa> gavinandresen, Luke-Jr: in the 4.8.3 release notes:
873 2013-01-30 17:41:19 <sipa> - Add OS version detection for Windows 8
874 2013-01-30 17:41:29 <sipa> so at least there is *some* support :)
875 2013-01-30 17:41:54 <Luke-Jr> ThomasV: Eligius runs with that pullreq, so in practice you could get it mined in about a day
876 2013-01-30 17:41:58 <ThomasV> sipa: so, a client could have a "speed up this tx" functino, that just does an internal transaction
877 2013-01-30 17:42:02 <gavinandresen> but what does that mean? OS version detection when building? running?
878 2013-01-30 17:42:12 <Luke-Jr> I guess if it works, it works.
879 2013-01-30 17:42:34 <ThomasV> Luke-Jr: how much of a fee do you wat ? :)
880 2013-01-30 17:42:43 <ThomasV> *want*
881 2013-01-30 17:43:37 <Luke-Jr> ThomasV: 100000 BTC
882 2013-01-30 17:43:48 <Luke-Jr> ThomasV: but it will accept the usual fee (after the parent txn is included in size)
883 2013-01-30 17:44:11 <ThomasV> that's a bit expensive given the "about a day" delay
884 2013-01-30 17:44:17 <SomeoneWeird> lmao
885 2013-01-30 17:44:22 <Luke-Jr> (it will take lower than the usual fee too, but I'm not sure exactly the details anymore)
886 2013-01-30 17:44:44 <gavinandresen> my machine is still "Reindexing blocks on disk" ⦠I think we should add a new checkpoint to speed that up. And maybe tweak the default -dbcache setting ?
887 2013-01-30 17:44:56 sgstair has joined
888 2013-01-30 17:45:35 <gavinandresen> Draft 0.8 release notes: https://gist.github.com/4674836
889 2013-01-30 17:45:45 <sipa> gavinandresen: you said a reindex took an hour for you; how much is past the 210k checkpoint?
890 2013-01-30 17:46:40 <sipa> gavinandresen: -dbcache is not a new setting (it used to be the BDB buffer size)
891 2013-01-30 17:46:43 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: it'd be nice to know what the -dbcache number represents
892 2013-01-30 17:47:14 <gavinandresen> sipa: reindexing took almost 2 hours (1:53)⦠let me dig out the number for up-to-210K
893 2013-01-30 17:47:48 <sipa> gavinandresen: you don't have to run with the -txindex settings (just specifying it at reindex time suffices); it will complain if you do specify it and it doesn't match the setting in the index
894 2013-01-30 17:47:48 imsaguy has joined
895 2013-01-30 17:47:55 <porquilho> SomeoneWeird Oo ?!
896 2013-01-30 17:47:57 <porquilho> why are you banning me
897 2013-01-30 17:48:50 <porquilho> WHY IS this guy banning me
898 2013-01-30 17:49:15 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: I see you document it more lower down. Maybe a (see below for details) at the top?
899 2013-01-30 17:49:36 <gavinandresen> sipa: 1:11 (eleven!) to reindex to height=210000
900 2013-01-30 17:50:15 voodster has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
901 2013-01-30 17:50:25 occulta has joined
902 2013-01-30 17:50:29 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: other than that, looks good
903 2013-01-30 17:51:48 <ThomasV> Luke-Jr: where is that pullreq, btw?
904 2013-01-30 17:52:07 sgstair has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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907 2013-01-30 17:53:19 <Luke-Jr> ThomasV: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1647
908 2013-01-30 17:53:38 <Luke-Jr> ThomasV: I have a 0.6.0.x-based version as well, if you want that
909 2013-01-30 17:53:41 <ThomasV> nice name :)
910 2013-01-30 17:53:42 tonikt has joined
911 2013-01-30 17:53:55 <ThomasV> Luke-Jr: I am not mining :)
912 2013-01-30 17:54:03 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
913 2013-01-30 17:54:09 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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915 2013-01-30 17:54:43 <ThomasV> but we could try to convince slush to use it
916 2013-01-30 17:55:02 <gavinandresen> updated release notes: https://gist.github.com/4674836
917 2013-01-30 17:55:21 ken` has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
918 2013-01-30 17:55:29 <gavinandresen> TODO list for after lunch looks like:
919 2013-01-30 17:55:45 <gavinandresen> double-check to make sure 0.7.2 fixes made it into the master branch
920 2013-01-30 17:55:59 <gavinandresen> commit release notes to doc/release-notes.txt
921 2013-01-30 17:56:11 t7 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
922 2013-01-30 17:56:14 <gavinandresen> remove the "pre-release test build, don't use it" warning
923 2013-01-30 17:56:18 ken` has joined
924 2013-01-30 17:56:21 <gavinandresen> bump version numbers
925 2013-01-30 17:56:31 <gavinandresen> tag tree
926 2013-01-30 17:57:30 <gavinandresen> oh, oops: add a checkpoint around block 217,000 or so
927 2013-01-30 17:57:32 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
928 2013-01-30 17:57:40 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
929 2013-01-30 17:57:41 <gribble> 218765
930 2013-01-30 17:57:45 spenvo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
931 2013-01-30 17:58:18 spenvo has joined
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933 2013-01-30 17:58:45 <gavinandresen> 217777 is a nice number...
934 2013-01-30 17:59:04 <gavinandresen> afk, lunch
935 2013-01-30 17:59:45 <sipa> only 1000 blocks deep? that seems low, and by the time the next release is there, the difference in IBD time because of that will be marginal
936 2013-01-30 17:59:48 <SomeoneWeird> 213456
937 2013-01-30 17:59:54 <SomeoneWeird> just to annoy OCD'ers
938 2013-01-30 17:59:55 <SomeoneWeird> :3
939 2013-01-30 18:00:41 <gavinandresen> sipa: ok, how about 216666 ? Nice mark-of-satan there....
940 2013-01-30 18:01:01 t7 has joined
941 2013-01-30 18:01:45 <HM> Satoshi should have upped the block reward for prime block numbers
942 2013-01-30 18:01:59 <ThomasV> lol
943 2013-01-30 18:02:01 <SomeoneWeird> haha that would have been awesome
944 2013-01-30 18:02:41 <SomeoneWeird> gavinandresen, you have to make the next checkpoint 314159
945 2013-01-30 18:03:39 <HM> 271828 is first
946 2013-01-30 18:03:53 <sipa> was just about to say that
947 2013-01-30 18:03:58 <SomeoneWeird> ah, true
948 2013-01-30 18:03:58 <HM> i think that's more significant toward exponential growth
949 2013-01-30 18:04:20 <sipa> gavinandresen: ok, i like sticking to the "one retarget cycle deep" policy
950 2013-01-30 18:04:23 JZavala has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
951 2013-01-30 18:10:08 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
952 2013-01-30 18:11:02 <ThomasV> I restarted my bitcoind, and my "tx taking forever" is gone.
953 2013-01-30 18:11:05 knotwork_ has joined
954 2013-01-30 18:12:03 <porquilho> Someguy123
955 2013-01-30 18:12:05 <porquilho> SomeoneWeird
956 2013-01-30 18:12:06 <porquilho> SomeoneWeird
957 2013-01-30 18:12:09 <porquilho> why did you ban me ?
958 2013-01-30 18:12:16 <Someguy123> *facepalm*
959 2013-01-30 18:12:28 <Someguy123> SomeoneWeird, having a name so close to mine is annoying at times
960 2013-01-30 18:12:30 <Someguy123> =_+
961 2013-01-30 18:12:50 knotwork has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
962 2013-01-30 18:13:47 <porquilho> sorry Someguy123
963 2013-01-30 18:13:55 <porquilho> why did you ban me SomeoneWeird
964 2013-01-30 18:14:45 <porquilho> maybe he put me on ignore
965 2013-01-30 18:14:49 <porquilho> someone ask him
966 2013-01-30 18:17:59 maaku has joined
967 2013-01-30 18:19:29 <helo> porquilho: he determined that you and 'share' were the same person, and 'share' was misbehaving
968 2013-01-30 18:20:01 <helo> he, among others
969 2013-01-30 18:21:04 <gavinandresen> darn it, can't use block 216666 for a checkpoint, the block before it has a later timestamp.
970 2013-01-30 18:21:28 <SomeoneWeird> 213456 >.>
971 2013-01-30 18:22:11 <sipa> gavinandresen: let's 51% attack the chain to fix that :p
972 2013-01-30 18:22:11 <porquilho> but im not share
973 2013-01-30 18:22:39 <gavinandresen> lets see if 216111 worksâ¦. (eleven being my favorite number, y'know)
974 2013-01-30 18:22:46 <porquilho> helo
975 2013-01-30 18:22:47 <helo> porquilho: you'll have to take that up with him... i recommend /m SomeoneWeird instead of discussing in here
976 2013-01-30 18:22:57 <porquilho> he put me on ignore
977 2013-01-30 18:23:21 <porquilho> :\
978 2013-01-30 18:23:51 FredEE has joined
979 2013-01-30 18:23:53 <porquilho> thanks for clarifying helo
980 2013-01-30 18:24:02 <gavinandresen> 216111 worksâ¦. although 216116 is even nicer, it has a timestamp of 11:11 GMT
981 2013-01-30 18:24:04 <porquilho> i just got banned out of nothing
982 2013-01-30 18:24:19 <sipa> porquilho: where?
983 2013-01-30 18:24:22 <gavinandresen> â¦. generated on january 11'th....
984 2013-01-30 18:24:27 <sipa> gavinandresen: go for it!
985 2013-01-30 18:24:28 <helo> you may have to wait until you're unbanned (maybe a couple days). i mentioned that i thought you were generally constructive.
986 2013-01-30 18:24:57 <gavinandresen> 216116 it'll be, that's just too many elevens for me to ignore.
987 2013-01-30 18:25:05 <porquilho> in #bitcoin-otc
988 2013-01-30 18:25:06 <porquilho> and
989 2013-01-30 18:25:08 <porquilho> #bitcoin
990 2013-01-30 18:25:18 <porquilho> not in here becase he doesnt have op
991 2013-01-30 18:26:33 occulta has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
992 2013-01-30 18:27:37 bitnumus has quit (Quit: Bye)
993 2013-01-30 18:29:03 spenvo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
994 2013-01-30 18:29:18 spenvo has joined
995 2013-01-30 18:39:33 PhantomSpark has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
996 2013-01-30 18:40:16 <MC1984> RC?
997 2013-01-30 18:45:34 spenvo has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
998 2013-01-30 18:47:30 denisx has joined
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1006 2013-01-30 18:54:13 <gavinandresen> grumble grumble grumbleâ¦. "we" never fixed the insert-change-at-random-position bug....
1007 2013-01-30 18:54:43 <ThomasV> what is that bug?
1008 2013-01-30 18:55:02 <gavinandresen> ThomasV: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=128042.0
1009 2013-01-30 18:55:42 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: I thought sipa did..
1010 2013-01-30 18:55:44 <Luke-Jr> CodeShark: ping
1011 2013-01-30 18:56:08 <CodeShark> Luke-Jr: ?
1012 2013-01-30 18:56:24 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: I thought so too, but I don't see the +1 in wallet.cpp
1013 2013-01-30 18:56:40 <gavinandresen> (actually, I thought I fixed it....)
1014 2013-01-30 18:57:15 <SomeoneWeird> git blame time
1015 2013-01-30 18:57:50 <Luke-Jr> CodeShark: PM
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1019 2013-01-30 19:04:00 <kuzetsa> etotheipi: oh, armory has coin control now?
1020 2013-01-30 19:05:19 freakazoid has joined
1021 2013-01-30 19:10:00 HM has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1023 2013-01-30 19:13:55 <sipa> i certainly didn't fix that, i thought you did, gavinandresen?
1024 2013-01-30 19:14:14 spenvo has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1025 2013-01-30 19:14:38 <gavinandresen> ⦠that'll teach me to not open an issue for something that I think I couldn't possibly forget to fix...
1026 2013-01-30 19:15:55 vampireb has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1027 2013-01-30 19:16:44 <gavinandresen> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2246
1028 2013-01-30 19:17:06 <sipa> gavinandresen: code looks correct to me
1029 2013-01-30 19:17:12 <sipa> it used to be -1, and the -1 is gone?
1030 2013-01-30 19:17:36 <gavinandresen> it used to be nothing
1031 2013-01-30 19:18:08 WolfAlex_ has joined
1032 2013-01-30 19:18:09 <sipa> gavinandresen: i'm pretty sure it's correct
1033 2013-01-30 19:18:12 <gavinandresen> (well, before spendmany it used to be an if coin-flip then swap change and non-change output)
1034 2013-01-30 19:18:18 <sipa> gavinandresen: the argument to getrandint is the maximum
1035 2013-01-30 19:18:32 <gavinandresen> yup. I'll pull.
1036 2013-01-30 19:18:36 <sipa> no
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1038 2013-01-30 19:19:20 WolfAlex has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1039 2013-01-30 19:19:27 <gavinandresen> aha: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2120
1040 2013-01-30 19:19:34 <gavinandresen> I poked the wrong button on github
1041 2013-01-30 19:20:12 <gavinandresen> lets see if I can get it right this time....
1042 2013-01-30 19:20:51 <sipa> aaah damn
1043 2013-01-30 19:21:01 <sipa> the argument nMax is not the maximum
1044 2013-01-30 19:21:32 <gavinandresen> right, it is [min,max)
1045 2013-01-30 19:21:46 <sipa> yes, i assumed it was [0,max]
1046 2013-01-30 19:21:53 <sipa> so yes, indeed, it's not fixed
1047 2013-01-30 19:26:41 petertodd_ has joined
1048 2013-01-30 19:27:19 <petertodd_> gavinadresen: https://gist.github.com/4675807 <- minor wording change for release-notes re: txindex, I think the way it's written implies txindex is a one-shot thing
1049 2013-01-30 19:28:42 <Luke-Jr> petertodd_: it is
1050 2013-01-30 19:29:33 <petertodd_> oh, well never mind then... weird, I'll have to figure out why that hadn't worked for me
1051 2013-01-30 19:29:49 <sipa> petertodd_: it's basically a property of the block index, so it needs to be set when the block index is created (i.e., when -reindex'ing)
1052 2013-01-30 19:30:02 <sipa> if that doesn't work, it's a bug
1053 2013-01-30 19:30:27 <petertodd_> alright, I'll track it down, I might have had it on a non-txindex version when I saw the behavior
1054 2013-01-30 19:31:21 <sipa> _if_ -txindex=? is supplied, it must match the state of the database (and it refuses to start if there's a mismatch)
1055 2013-01-30 19:31:28 <sipa> but you don't have to specify it
1056 2013-01-30 19:32:43 <petertodd_> maybe that's what I did, started with txindex != 1 on a non-txindex bitcoind, anyway, I'll look into it later
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1083 2013-01-30 19:44:04 <BlueMatt> blockchain.info devs arent on irc, correct?
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1099 2013-01-30 19:59:59 <sipa> BlueMatt: i think piuk has been here, but not often
1100 2013-01-30 20:01:14 <gavinandresen> wumpus : ping?
1101 2013-01-30 20:06:20 rlifchitz has joined
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1106 2013-01-30 20:15:58 <wumpus> gavinandresen: pong
1107 2013-01-30 20:16:08 <Diapolo> sipa: sorry, I'm tired ^^ that pull was really one of the worst ones :D
1108 2013-01-30 20:16:29 <wumpus> wow you've been really busy lately Diapolo :)
1109 2013-01-30 20:16:40 <gavinandresen> wumpus: I'm looking at https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2239 and working on a quick fix
1110 2013-01-30 20:16:44 <Diapolo> wumpus: hey mate :)
1111 2013-01-30 20:17:15 <Diapolo> gavinandresen: what about: return QDateTime::fromTime_t(pindexBest ? pindexBest->GetBlockTime() : (int64)0);
1112 2013-01-30 20:17:19 <gavinandresen> wumpus: is QDateTime ClientModel::getLastBlockDate() supposed to return the time of the last block we HAVE ?
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1115 2013-01-30 20:17:51 <gavinandresen> Diapolo: I'm testing a patch that has it return the hard-coded timestamp of the main network genesis block
1116 2013-01-30 20:18:01 <wumpus> yes gavinandresen
1117 2013-01-30 20:18:03 <Diapolo> even better :)
1118 2013-01-30 20:18:08 <sipa> gavinandresen: sounds correct
1119 2013-01-30 20:18:19 <gavinandresen> wumpus: great. patch incomingâ¦.
1120 2013-01-30 20:18:20 <sipa> (in case of pindexBest==NULL)
1121 2013-01-30 20:18:24 <Diapolo> weird that that never caused errors before until now
1122 2013-01-30 20:18:43 <wumpus> either that or return your birthday or something :)
1123 2013-01-30 20:18:51 <gavinandresen> sipa: re: -reindex with an empty datadir : will the IBD get kicked off when a new block is found on the network?
1124 2013-01-30 20:19:06 <wumpus> but yes the genesis block makes sense
1125 2013-01-30 20:19:07 <sipa> actually
1126 2013-01-30 20:19:12 <gavinandresen> wumpus: ooh, 11/11/2011 ....
1127 2013-01-30 20:19:23 <wumpus> :-)
1128 2013-01-30 20:19:26 <sipa> i expect problems if you do a reindex with an empty datadir
1129 2013-01-30 20:19:27 <Diapolo> wumpus: any thoughts on that header / cpp cleanup, pulltester seems to eat it and I would like to start a Qt5 pull after 0.8 is final
1130 2013-01-30 20:19:41 <sipa> gavinandresen: needs testing, i guess, but i'm afraid it may not
1131 2013-01-30 20:19:42 <gavinandresen> sipa: well, it doesn't crash, but I haven't managed to get it to download any blocks....
1132 2013-01-30 20:19:54 TD has joined
1133 2013-01-30 20:19:56 <wumpus> Diapolo: all those cleanups can wait until 0.8 is released right, i don't see a point in rushing them in
1134 2013-01-30 20:20:06 <gavinandresen> sipa: that's a bug I can live with
1135 2013-01-30 20:20:13 <Diapolo> wumpus: right, just wanted to know if you hate me for it ^^
1136 2013-01-30 20:20:28 <wumpus> no, I don't, I've just stopped pulling most stuff for now because of the release phase
1137 2013-01-30 20:20:48 <sipa> -reindex skips the normal auto-adding of the genesis block to the database, as you want to reuse the existing one already on disk
1138 2013-01-30 20:20:52 <Diapolo> gavinandresen: I observed that also, that after reindex no new blocks get downloaded ... didn't bother to look at it, thought that is caused by our normal IBD mechanics ^^
1139 2013-01-30 20:21:02 int0x27h has joined
1140 2013-01-30 20:21:24 <gavinandresen> sipa: ah, that explains all of the ORPHAN BLOCK messages I saw
1141 2013-01-30 20:21:29 <sipa> Diapolo: it is - IBD is booted when a connection to a node is opened, and there is no IBD going on
1142 2013-01-30 20:21:58 <wumpus> and after 0.8 final there's also CodeShark's multi-wallet gui code reorganization, I think it makes sense to pull that first
1143 2013-01-30 20:22:05 <Diapolo> sipa: but shouldn't IBD start after reindex because the if clause for IBD should be true afterwards?
1144 2013-01-30 20:22:16 <sipa> Diapolo: but there are no new connections being made
1145 2013-01-30 20:22:28 <sipa> as you'll typically be fully connected by the time reindex finishes
1146 2013-01-30 20:22:46 <gavinandresen> sipa: mmmâ¦. since we're recommending -txindex -reindex to people, that bug might be a showstopper.
1147 2013-01-30 20:22:47 <Diapolo> wumpus: if he is able to rebase to integrate the latest changes yes, if no I would like the header / cpp cleanup first
1148 2013-01-30 20:22:58 <Diapolo> sipa: sounds right, behaves wrong ^^
1149 2013-01-30 20:23:19 <sipa> gavinandresen: well, if you haven't _ever_ started the client, you can just use -txindex
1150 2013-01-30 20:23:29 <sipa> but -reindex should always work, period
1151 2013-01-30 20:24:53 Belkaar has joined
1152 2013-01-30 20:25:04 <sipa> gavinandresen: the solution is probably to extract the genesis-init-code from main's LoadBlockIndex, and call it at the time fReindex=false is set when pindexGenesis is still NULL
1153 2013-01-30 20:25:10 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
1154 2013-01-30 20:25:23 <Diapolo> wumpus: I still feel uncomfortable with that big code-movement in that multi wallet pull as I think it's really hard to track if no code changes were made or are missing...
1155 2013-01-30 20:26:25 <wumpus> Diapolo: yes, it needs to be carefully checked
1156 2013-01-30 20:27:02 <Diapolo> wumpus: it would be nice if Github could use a form of references old place -> new place to compare it
1157 2013-01-30 20:27:18 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
1158 2013-01-30 20:27:40 <wumpus> indeed, it would be great if their diff tools were somewhat smarter and could detect things like moved / copied code
1159 2013-01-30 20:28:32 <Diapolo> wumpus: while you are here, that thing gooney mentioned and I observed that our progressbar has problems with updates, when there are no new blocks coming in ... what is THE solution for this?
1160 2013-01-30 20:29:06 <wumpus> delete the progress bar? :<
1161 2013-01-30 20:29:27 <gavinandresen> sipa: ACK, I'll work on a pull that does that, I think we need to make -reindex on an empty data dir work
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1165 2013-01-30 20:29:48 <Diapolo> wumpus: it's about every GUI element there, progress bar, label and the spinning icon and it's tooltips
1166 2013-01-30 20:29:49 <wumpus> the progress bar is just a rough estimate
1167 2013-01-30 20:30:03 <Diapolo> wumpus: I'm not talking about the precission of the bar :)
1168 2013-01-30 20:30:55 <Diapolo> update on mouseover? and perhaps also cache reindex and importing values to trigger an update if they change?
1169 2013-01-30 20:31:09 <wumpus> no, it should update when something has changed
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1171 2013-01-30 20:31:15 <wumpus> what updates does it have problems with?
1172 2013-01-30 20:31:20 <gavinandresen> I sent somebody some ideas for making the progress bar more accurate⦠(associate benchmark percentages with checkpoints)
1173 2013-01-30 20:31:43 <sipa> gavinandresen: headers-first mode!
1174 2013-01-30 20:31:48 <Diapolo> wumpus: it doesn't catch a change in block source, when reindex finishes for example
1175 2013-01-30 20:31:52 <gavinandresen> sipa: +1000
1176 2013-01-30 20:32:13 <wumpus> Diapolo: install an event handler to listen for those updates and update the appropriate widget when that quantity is updated
1177 2013-01-30 20:32:32 <Diapolo> gavinandresen: I guess I received that, but had no time / will to take a deeper look Gavin
1178 2013-01-30 20:32:48 <wumpus> headers-first mode would be cool for a thousand reasons, but a more precise progress bar really cannot bother me :)
1179 2013-01-30 20:32:54 <Diapolo> I saved your idea :) perhaps I'll just create a ticket first for discussion
1180 2013-01-30 20:33:59 <sipa> gavinandresen: oh, wait, no... you don't know the number of transactions in the best chain in headers-only mode
1181 2013-01-30 20:34:14 <wumpus> we don't want a more precise progress bar but an instantly usable client
1182 2013-01-30 20:34:17 <sipa> and there's no way to verifiably transfer that even
1183 2013-01-30 20:35:04 <sipa> wumpus: well, just turning Bitcoin-Qt into an SPV client would be fine for that :)
1184 2013-01-30 20:35:17 <Diapolo> wumpus: agreed but as I said I wasn't talking about precission
1185 2013-01-30 20:35:19 <gavinandresen> yes, instantly usable is the goal. I'll settle for usable-when-headers-are-downloaded (what would that be, 5 minutes?)
1186 2013-01-30 20:35:38 <wumpus> yes 5 minutes is fine and instant compared to how it is now :)
1187 2013-01-30 20:35:57 <wumpus> Diapolo: so there should be an event for when the block source changed?
1188 2013-01-30 20:36:05 <Diapolo> sipa: if Bitcoin-Qt get's seperated I'll lose motivation ^^ core and qt belong together in my world
1189 2013-01-30 20:36:18 <Diapolo> wumpus: yes I think that's the solution
1190 2013-01-30 20:36:37 <Diapolo> could perhaps be in void ClientModel::updateTimer() also
1191 2013-01-30 20:36:39 <sipa> Diapolo: I disagree completely :)
1192 2013-01-30 20:36:50 <Diapolo> sipa: which is fine ;)
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1194 2013-01-30 20:37:17 <sipa> Diapolo: it could still be the same codebase or even the same binary, which starts a bitcoind in the background for full validation, transparently to the user
1195 2013-01-30 20:37:41 <sipa> but there is no part of the Qt GUi that currently depends on having a fully validating node behind it, afaik
1196 2013-01-30 20:37:44 <sipa> so why require it?
1197 2013-01-30 20:37:49 <Diapolo> sipa: I would love to work on one project, one codebase, if that is possible fine ^^
1198 2013-01-30 20:37:50 <wumpus> yeah, seperate processes would be a good idea
1199 2013-01-30 20:38:06 <helo> Diapolo: so you are against a system-wide bitcoind that multiple user wallets could connect to?
1200 2013-01-30 20:38:44 <wumpus> I'm not sure that's a good idea helo
1201 2013-01-30 20:38:54 <sipa> gavinandresen: already working on a patch for the reindex empty dir thing
1202 2013-01-30 20:38:57 <wumpus> it would be a good idea to share the chain and P2P handling though
1203 2013-01-30 20:39:10 <Diapolo> helo: I'm against nothing I just said on what I would like to still work work in the future ^^
1204 2013-01-30 20:39:22 <gavinandresen> sipa: cool, thanks
1205 2013-01-30 20:39:28 <wumpus> but sharing the wallet handling process between users sounds like a recipe for disaster
1206 2013-01-30 20:39:47 <sipa> wumpus: that's exactly the opposite of what helo says?
1207 2013-01-30 20:39:52 <Diapolo> gavinandresen: I think just for finding bugs I should get my checkpoint containing a 38 :-P
1208 2013-01-30 20:40:00 <helo> i recall some discussion about a system-wide bitcoind that multiple users could use
1209 2013-01-30 20:40:02 <wumpus> oh sorry I misread
1210 2013-01-30 20:40:17 <sipa> helo: imho, system-wide bitcoind (which may be spawned by a single user) + one or more wallet clients connecting to it (which each maintain one or more wallets, and an SPV database)
1211 2013-01-30 20:40:46 <sipa> you could drop the bitcoind and have SPV-level security, without any code change
1212 2013-01-30 20:41:29 * midnightmagic cheers for jgarzik
1213 2013-01-30 20:42:42 grau has joined
1214 2013-01-30 20:46:21 <helo> is the motivation to allow lightweight various-use-case-targeted UIs that could coexist with bitcoin-qt without adding much overhead?
1215 2013-01-30 20:47:05 <helo> so bitcoin-qt can stay very focused on end-user fund management and avoid bloat
1216 2013-01-30 20:56:13 <Luke-Jr> sipa: ping
1217 2013-01-30 20:56:49 <Luke-Jr> sipa: ConnectBestBlock takes a CValidationState argument, but doesn't use it - instead it makes a new CValidationState on the stack and discards it?
1218 2013-01-30 20:57:07 <CodeShark> I'm also in favor of the bitcoind-as-service + additional wallet clients connecting to it model
1219 2013-01-30 20:57:45 <Diapolo> wumpus: I have some changes for BitcoinGUI::setNumBlocks() that displays what the client is doing, even if we have no net or no data for the progressbar :)
1220 2013-01-30 20:57:46 <CodeShark> and yes, I would like to see it support greater concurrency
1221 2013-01-30 20:57:58 <Luke-Jr> sipa: also, ProcessBlock uses the passed CValidationState for processing formerly-orphan blocks - which seems like a DoS vector in various ways :o
1222 2013-01-30 20:58:10 <Luke-Jr> CodeShark: that's a lot of work.
1223 2013-01-30 20:58:27 <CodeShark> Luke-Jr: nothing worthwhile is easy
1224 2013-01-30 20:58:30 <CodeShark> :)
1225 2013-01-30 20:58:32 <Luke-Jr> âº
1226 2013-01-30 20:59:07 <sipa> Luke-Jr: you're right in both cases
1227 2013-01-30 20:59:24 <CodeShark> for what it's worth, most of the codebase necessary is already there. getting everyone to agree on the direction...that's a bit more of a challenge :)
1228 2013-01-30 21:00:02 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1229 2013-01-30 21:01:06 <CodeShark> I've been a strong advocate of the idea of turning bitcoind into a streamlined service node whose main tasks are validation of network messages, relaying, and preventing DoS attacks.
1230 2013-01-30 21:01:12 <CodeShark> and moving all other functionality to other processes
1231 2013-01-30 21:01:54 <CodeShark> including wallets
1232 2013-01-30 21:02:24 <Diapolo> CodeShark: you are calling revolution, most of my time here I got the feeling bitcoin is based on evolution ;)
1233 2013-01-30 21:02:46 <CodeShark> the thing is that most of what we already have can be reused to this end
1234 2013-01-30 21:03:13 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1235 2013-01-30 21:03:33 <Luke-Jr> sipa: which of us writes the fix?
1236 2013-01-30 21:03:38 <sipa> Luke-Jr: feel free
1237 2013-01-30 21:04:02 TD has joined
1238 2013-01-30 21:04:24 <CodeShark> Diapolo: I'm also not suggesting it should be an immediate change
1239 2013-01-30 21:04:56 <CodeShark> I would like to see the codebase evolve in a direction where such an architecture and use model would be easy to support, though
1240 2013-01-30 21:06:21 <CodeShark> I can tell you from my own personal usage of bitcoind - very few of my bitcoind instances use the wallet
1241 2013-01-30 21:06:37 <CodeShark> most are used to relay messages to other programs I've written
1242 2013-01-30 21:07:22 <Diapolo> sipa: a bootstrap.dat with a filled blocks folder (containing up todate block files) will not erasing blocks folder, right?
1243 2013-01-30 21:08:01 <CodeShark> moreover, the instances that I do run with the wallet tend to be on intranet nodes
1244 2013-01-30 21:08:21 <CodeShark> or just locally on my client machine
1245 2013-01-30 21:10:24 B0g4r7 has joined
1246 2013-01-30 21:12:54 <sipa> Diapolo: stuff in blocks/* is never erased :)
1247 2013-01-30 21:13:05 <sipa> (well, -reindex clears blocks/index/)
1248 2013-01-30 21:13:21 <Diapolo> sipa: so I expect the imported blocks are just skipped, because they are already there?
1249 2013-01-30 21:13:25 <sipa> yes
1250 2013-01-30 21:13:32 <Diapolo> that's fine, thanks
1251 2013-01-30 21:13:37 <CodeShark> Diapolo: perchance have you had a moment to look at pull request 2220?
1252 2013-01-30 21:13:44 benkay has joined
1253 2013-01-30 21:14:51 <Diapolo> I still feel critically hit by it, because of that fu...ing diff display on Github...
1254 2013-01-30 21:15:18 <CodeShark> ?
1255 2013-01-30 21:15:52 <sipa> github diff view sucks :)
1256 2013-01-30 21:15:54 <Diapolo> it's time consuming to check if it's just code movement or if perhaps changes sneaked in
1257 2013-01-30 21:16:06 <sipa> two-side view is so much clearer
1258 2013-01-30 21:16:17 <CodeShark> yeah
1259 2013-01-30 21:17:59 <CodeShark> most of the code movements are from bitcoingui.cpp to walletview.cpp
1260 2013-01-30 21:19:03 <Diapolo> I think wumpus intents to take a final look after we have 0.8 out ... if you can keep your pull based on the latest Qt changes to current master for point X I'm going to take an intensive look then too
1261 2013-01-30 21:19:37 <CodeShark> modifications to bitcoingui.cpp are what are most likely to make merging complicated
1262 2013-01-30 21:19:52 <CodeShark> changes to other source files won't affect the merge nearly as much
1263 2013-01-30 21:20:49 <CodeShark> a big part of the reason for doing the multiwallet-qt-no-core was to completely separate the GUI changes from the core changes
1264 2013-01-30 21:21:18 Guest68523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1265 2013-01-30 21:21:19 <benkay> are there any armory/armoryx developers kicking around today?
1266 2013-01-30 21:21:30 <sipa> etotheipi_: ^
1267 2013-01-30 21:21:47 <Diapolo> CodeShark: I already aggreed to that, my only fear is that we are merging something that misses the latest changes, which you can tell me won't happen ;) so it's all about just looking and doing it
1268 2013-01-30 21:22:00 <CodeShark> I can rebase it if it's still a concern
1269 2013-01-30 21:23:49 <Diapolo> before merging a final rebase should be done, yes ... and that's all I would like to see then
1270 2013-01-30 21:24:10 <CodeShark> I just did a rebase - no conflicts
1271 2013-01-30 21:25:01 <CodeShark> so I think we're still good :)
1272 2013-01-30 21:25:34 <CodeShark> the core changes will be a lot more difficult to merge
1273 2013-01-30 21:25:57 spenvo has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1274 2013-01-30 21:26:02 <Diapolo> these are nothing I fear as core is mostly "in the wild" for me ^^
1275 2013-01-30 21:26:12 <Diapolo> thanks btw. :)
1276 2013-01-30 21:28:49 zooko has quit (Quit: brb)
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1280 2013-01-30 21:31:56 <CodeShark> np :)
1281 2013-01-30 21:33:14 * sipa is curious about what time jgarzik gets home
1282 2013-01-30 21:33:34 * sturles too
1283 2013-01-30 21:34:38 * D34TH wonders why somebody shipped him flash drives?
1284 2013-01-30 21:34:46 <D34TH> :P
1285 2013-01-30 21:34:56 <sipa> ?
1286 2013-01-30 21:35:16 <D34TH> deal extreme ships from china
1287 2013-01-30 21:35:38 <sipa> yes
1288 2013-01-30 21:35:39 <BlueMatt> its only 4:15...give him time.....
1289 2013-01-30 21:36:00 * BlueMatt anticipates a major increase in P2Pool rate this evening
1290 2013-01-30 21:36:32 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
1291 2013-01-30 21:38:12 Guest68523 has joined
1292 2013-01-30 21:38:22 <benkay> why's that, BlueMatt?
1293 2013-01-30 21:38:43 <BlueMatt> jgarzik
1294 2013-01-30 21:41:42 <benkay> jgarzik runs lots of miners? i'm lacking epic context here.
1295 2013-01-30 21:42:04 <sipa> benkay: jgarzik is potentially the receiver of the first Bitcoin ASIC
1296 2013-01-30 21:42:10 <benkay> !
1297 2013-01-30 21:42:12 <gmaxwell> benkay: 70GH/s asic miner box arrived at jeff's today.
1298 2013-01-30 21:42:13 vigilyn has joined
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1300 2013-01-30 21:42:13 vigilyn has joined
1301 2013-01-30 21:42:14 <benkay> thanks, sipa.
1302 2013-01-30 21:42:37 <sipa> gmaxwell: no, something from china arrived at jeff's today :)
1303 2013-01-30 21:42:44 <sipa> (unless you know more?)
1304 2013-01-30 21:42:56 <benkay> implying it may be a brick?
1305 2013-01-30 21:43:14 zooko has joined
1306 2013-01-30 21:43:25 <sipa> i don't imply anything - including that it is an ASIC :p
1307 2013-01-30 21:43:29 <gmaxwell> sipa: I said 'box'. :P
1308 2013-01-30 21:43:43 <benkay> oh, you ;)
1309 2013-01-30 21:43:43 <gmaxwell> It's like when you buy things on ebay. "iphone 5 (box)"
1310 2013-01-30 21:44:10 vigilyn3 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1311 2013-01-30 21:44:45 <porquilho> gmaxwell, SomeoneWeird
1312 2013-01-30 21:44:53 <porquilho> gmaxwell, SomeoneWeird banned me from otc and bitcoin
1313 2013-01-30 21:45:04 <porquilho> becase he thinks i am another person
1314 2013-01-30 21:45:06 <porquilho> and he is wrong
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1322 2013-01-30 21:58:23 <CodeShark> http://garzikrants.blogspot.com.es/2013/01/once-upon-time-in-china-package-shipped.html
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1344 2013-01-30 22:34:17 <D34TH> sipa: latest bitcoin-qt making me redownload blockchain
1345 2013-01-30 22:35:03 <sipa> D34TH: expected, directory names changed
1346 2013-01-30 22:35:09 <D34TH> ahh
1347 2013-01-30 22:35:17 <sipa> blktree/ -> blocks/index
1348 2013-01-30 22:35:21 <sipa> coins -> chainstate
1349 2013-01-30 22:36:01 <D34TH> why arent they hardlinked?
1350 2013-01-30 22:36:22 <D34TH> like with blk0001.dat
1351 2013-01-30 22:37:04 <sipa> no compatibility with never-released code
1352 2013-01-30 22:37:11 <D34TH> ahh
1353 2013-01-30 22:37:18 <sipa> just not worth it
1354 2013-01-30 22:38:33 <porquilho> today i got my first bitcoin
1355 2013-01-30 22:38:39 <porquilho> :>
1356 2013-01-30 22:39:54 <D34TH> meg
1357 2013-01-30 22:39:56 <D34TH> **meh
1358 2013-01-30 22:40:00 <D34TH> ill just redownload the chain
1359 2013-01-30 22:40:53 grau has joined
1360 2013-01-30 22:42:55 * BlueMatt hops on a bus to crash jgarzik's party
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1368 2013-01-30 23:01:20 <midnightmagic> nice, jeff: http://garzikrants.blogspot.ca/2013/01/avalon-modular-room-to-expand.html
1369 2013-01-30 23:02:07 <midnightmagic> yay
1370 2013-01-30 23:02:42 <midnightmagic> he's almost live-blogging. hah, i'm happy he's the first one to get it. avalon is doing the right thing, again. what a surprise (not).
1371 2013-01-30 23:04:06 <Diablo-D3> why doesnt he just upload a video
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1374 2013-01-30 23:05:40 <midnightmagic> because he's not a dancing monkey!
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1390 2013-01-30 23:23:25 <galambo> jgarzik push the button :D
1391 2013-01-30 23:23:49 LargoG has joined
1392 2013-01-30 23:24:14 <jaakkos> he probably needs to reverse-engineer and write the drivers first...
1393 2013-01-30 23:24:47 <sipa> well he's a kernel developers, he should be able to!
1394 2013-01-30 23:25:37 <galambo> push the button :D dont listen to these guys ^^^
1395 2013-01-30 23:26:00 <galambo> plug it in, push button
1396 2013-01-30 23:26:00 Guest6731 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1397 2013-01-30 23:26:02 <galambo> :)
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1399 2013-01-30 23:29:34 <galambo> Switched-mode PSUs in domestic products such as personal computers often have universal inputs, meaning that they can accept power from most mains electricity throughout the world, with rated frequencies in the 50 - 60 Hz range and a voltage range between 100 - 240 V AC (although a manual voltage range switch may be required). In practice they will operate from a much wider frequency range and often from a DC supply as wel
1400 2013-01-30 23:29:35 <galambo> l.
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1416 2013-01-30 23:44:46 <sipa> Luke-Jr: have you worked on patching those two faults in #2224 you found?
1417 2013-01-30 23:45:32 <Luke-Jr> sipa: not yet, I am rebasing proposals first
1418 2013-01-30 23:45:49 <Luke-Jr> sipa: and then I was going to audit your CValidationResult patch to see if there's any other brokenness
1419 2013-01-30 23:45:57 <Luke-Jr> <.<
1420 2013-01-30 23:46:04 <sipa> please do
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