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17 2013-02-03 00:32:51 <phma> I have Bitcoin 0.7.2 on a 64-bit machine with 4 GB of RAM. Every few minutes
18 2013-02-03 00:32:51 <phma> the computer freezes with the disk light on for 5 to 20 seconds. It's not finished
19 2013-02-03 00:32:51 <phma> downloading all the blocks. What causes it to freeze?
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22 2013-02-03 00:37:06 <Luke-Jr> phma: let me guess, Windows?
23 2013-02-03 00:37:16 moore_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
24 2013-02-03 00:37:56 <phma> What kind of windows?
25 2013-02-03 00:38:10 <HM> Luke-Jr: brave guess
26 2013-02-03 00:38:42 <Luke-Jr> phma: either you're running Windows, using way too much memory for your computer, or your hard drive is failing
27 2013-02-03 00:38:47 <Luke-Jr> those are my top guesses
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29 2013-02-03 00:39:00 Aexoden has joined
30 2013-02-03 00:39:19 <phma> Should I run top while Bitcoin is running and see how much memory it takes?
31 2013-02-03 00:39:48 <Luke-Jr> phma: I mean overall system memory use being more than RAM installed
32 2013-02-03 00:39:51 <Luke-Jr> ie, swapping like crazy
33 2013-02-03 00:41:29 <phma> here's free -t without Bitcoin
34 2013-02-03 00:41:51 <phma> total used free shared buffers cached
35 2013-02-03 00:41:53 <phma> Mem: 4040300 3831488 208812 0 139716 922364
36 2013-02-03 00:41:54 <phma> -/+ buffers/cache: 2769408 1270892
37 2013-02-03 00:41:56 EPiSKiNG- has joined
38 2013-02-03 00:41:56 <phma> Swap: 7811068 980512 6830556
39 2013-02-03 00:41:57 <phma> Total: 11851368 4812000 7039368
40 2013-02-03 00:42:42 <HM> well you have a gig swapped out even though you have >that free
41 2013-02-03 00:44:33 <HM> this happens to me regularly on linux after memory pressure
42 2013-02-03 00:44:45 <HM> linux doesn't generally like sucking swap back in to memory
43 2013-02-03 00:44:55 <HM> even so it doesn't explain your problem
44 2013-02-03 00:45:26 <Luke-Jr> HM: it does, since bitcoin likes to call sync
45 2013-02-03 00:45:43 <phma> The FS is reiser; does that make a difference?
46 2013-02-03 00:45:50 <Luke-Jr> which basically means "don't do anything else until all disk I/O is completed"
47 2013-02-03 00:46:00 <phma> total used free shared buffers cached
48 2013-02-03 00:46:02 <phma> Mem: 4040300 3914816 125484 0 101644 931380
49 2013-02-03 00:46:03 <phma> -/+ buffers/cache: 2881792 1158508
50 2013-02-03 00:46:05 <phma> Swap: 7811068 986852 6824216
51 2013-02-03 00:46:06 <phma> Total: 11851368 4901668 6949700
52 2013-02-03 00:46:19 <phma> that's just after Bitcoin finished reading the block index
53 2013-02-03 00:46:51 <HM> Luke-Jr: sync() syncs filesystem buffers, which are never swapped?
54 2013-02-03 00:46:53 <phma> how much water does it pour into the sync?
55 2013-02-03 00:47:07 asuk has joined
56 2013-02-03 00:47:19 <HM> reiser could be the answer
57 2013-02-03 00:47:29 <HM> i doubt many people use bitcoin on reiserfs
58 2013-02-03 00:48:26 <Luke-Jr> or use reiserfs period, for that matter XD
59 2013-02-03 00:48:46 <phma> What is XD?
60 2013-02-03 00:48:58 <kuzetsa> phma: it's a smiley
61 2013-02-03 00:49:10 <kuzetsa> kind of a laughing face I've been told, but I don't see how
62 2013-02-03 00:49:40 dust-otc has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
63 2013-02-03 00:49:49 <phma> does it still write lots to disk once it's finished catching up?
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67 2013-02-03 00:56:49 <phma> I also noticed that around the middle of last year, downloading blocks started getting much slower.
68 2013-02-03 00:57:00 <kuzetsa> phma: yes, because the "log" still contains most of the data for a while after the blockchain finishes
69 2013-02-03 00:57:16 <kuzetsa> well, not "most" but most of the data from more recent blocks
70 2013-02-03 00:57:46 <phma> you mean the log in the filesystem or the log in Bitcoin?
71 2013-02-03 00:58:01 <kuzetsa> ...
72 2013-02-03 00:58:09 <kuzetsa> the bitcoin database is split into two parts
73 2013-02-03 00:58:25 <kuzetsa> a log, and the actual blockchain dat files
74 2013-02-03 00:59:42 <kuzetsa> look in ~/.bitcoin/ for linux or %appdata%/bitcoin for windows
75 2013-02-03 01:00:15 <kuzetsa> oops, %appdata%\bitcoin even (I breifly forgot it is backslash on windows)
76 2013-02-03 01:01:03 <kuzetsa> you should see blkindex.dat and blk0001.dat, blk0002... etc. etc. and a database folder (the database folder has the logs in question)
77 2013-02-03 01:02:03 JDuke128 has joined
78 2013-02-03 01:02:06 <phma> I see two logs. Is that enough to start a fire?
79 2013-02-03 01:02:09 <kuzetsa> while the blockchain is still downloading (and briefly after it finishes downloading) the database folder still has files like log.0000000??? in it (bunches of them)
80 2013-02-03 01:02:35 <kuzetsa> yeah... don't smoke near them
81 2013-02-03 01:03:41 <phma> okay, and the disk activity is moving blocks from the logs to the blk*dat files?
82 2013-02-03 01:03:49 <kuzetsa> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transaction_log <--- it's this (smoke near t hem if you want, I don't care... on that note, I'm going AFK and gonna have a cigg)
83 2013-02-03 01:04:00 <kuzetsa> phma: yes, basically
84 2013-02-03 01:04:34 <Luke-Jr> phma: kuzetsa doesn't know what he's talking about FWIW
85 2013-02-03 01:04:51 <Luke-Jr> phma: the block data is only ever written to blk*.dat, but that's probably not the main problem
86 2013-02-03 01:04:54 <kuzetsa> Luke-Jr: again, wrong pronoun / "he" is only gender neutral in the bible
87 2013-02-03 01:05:18 <Luke-Jr> phma: but 0.7 and earlier verify transactions by looking up their inputs in the blk*.dat files, so that's a lot of read-seeking
88 2013-02-03 01:05:30 <Luke-Jr> phma: and the bdb databases aren't very IO efficient eithr
89 2013-02-03 01:05:47 <kuzetsa> phma: regardless of what Luke-Jr is claiming, I've watched the database folder / log files during blockchain download multiple times with CPU loaded by other processes and while the CPU was otherwise idle during blockchain download... what I said is relevant
90 2013-02-03 01:05:59 <Luke-Jr> phma: but the only reason that's a problem for other applications is because of swapping/fsync
91 2013-02-03 01:06:03 TwilightSparklee has joined
92 2013-02-03 01:08:57 <phma> now it gets a block every few seconds. when it gets a block every ten minutes, it won't be a problem?
93 2013-02-03 01:10:39 <Luke-Jr> phma: with that much swap and so little RAM, I'm kinda surprised you only have problems when Bitcoin is running
94 2013-02-03 01:11:19 <Luke-Jr> phma: you might consider trying out 0.8 from git, though - it uses a LevelDB for verification, so a lot nicer on disk IO
95 2013-02-03 01:11:30 <phma> since when is 4 GB little RAM?
96 2013-02-03 01:11:39 <Luke-Jr> since about 5 years ago? O.o
97 2013-02-03 01:11:52 <Diablo-D3> no
98 2013-02-03 01:11:57 <Diablo-D3> 8 was little 6-7 years ago
99 2013-02-03 01:12:02 <Diablo-D3> thats what my c2d desktop has now
100 2013-02-03 01:12:15 <Diablo-D3> if I built a new box today, it'd be 32
101 2013-02-03 01:12:16 <gmaxwell> phones will soon have >=4GBytes.
102 2013-02-03 01:12:24 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: they do now actually
103 2013-02-03 01:12:33 <Diablo-D3> but thats because android java apps are so goddamned _fat_
104 2013-02-03 01:12:34 <gmaxwell> now is pretty darn soon.
105 2013-02-03 01:12:39 <Luke-Jr> lol
106 2013-02-03 01:12:48 <Diablo-D3> even 2 is fucked up if you want to multitask
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109 2013-02-03 01:13:02 <Diablo-D3> and android on 1 is kinda icky with shit like a bunch of tabs in chrome or firefox mobile
110 2013-02-03 01:13:17 <Luke-Jr> I settle with 16 GB in my desktop only because upgrading it would mean discarding RAM
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115 2013-02-03 01:19:04 <HM> I'd say 2 GiB was average in 2006
116 2013-02-03 01:19:08 <HM> maybe a bit later
117 2013-02-03 01:19:15 <HM> for a midrange desktop
118 2013-02-03 01:19:45 <Luke-Jr> 5 years ago = 2008 ;)
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120 2013-02-03 01:22:03 <HM> my laptop came with 4 in 2011 and i'd consider it above midrange
121 2013-02-03 01:22:29 <HM> i think the lack of mainstream Win64 held a lot of vendors back at 4GiB
122 2013-02-03 01:22:54 JDuke128 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
123 2013-02-03 01:26:53 <Luke-Jr> HM: Windows didn't support PAE?
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132 2013-02-03 01:31:59 <HM> Luke-Jr: Windows suffers a plight when you use PAE
133 2013-02-03 01:32:06 <HM> many drivers just die or act strangely
134 2013-02-03 01:32:24 <SomeoneWeird> they do...?
135 2013-02-03 01:32:25 <HM> it's obviously not a problem on x64 because the drivers have to be recompiled and patched up anyway
136 2013-02-03 01:33:27 <HM> or maybe i'm thinking of /3GB
137 2013-02-03 01:33:34 <HM> it's been a long time since i had to care
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147 2013-02-03 02:00:05 <phma> The progress bar disappeared.
148 2013-02-03 02:00:06 generalzero has left ("Leaving")
149 2013-02-03 02:00:23 <phma> Current total number of blocks 211427
150 2013-02-03 02:00:38 <phma> Estimated total blocks 210000
151 2013-02-03 02:00:41 <phma> Huh?
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156 2013-02-03 02:08:17 <phma> okay, estimated total is now 211984
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159 2013-02-03 02:15:59 <a5m0> i can't seem to properly check the transaction for this address since the blockexplorers report it as too large and electrum also errors, it appears this address has too many transactions to process? 1QBTLZm6r3abiUp69XTLz6YiCyopBjx51F
160 2013-02-03 02:16:44 <a5m0> i'm trying to help a noobie in -otc, blockchain.info reports a balance but won't let them send, all other blockexplorers say it's too long to display
161 2013-02-03 02:17:20 <a5m0> transaction log at brainwallet reports 0.00075047 balance
162 2013-02-03 02:17:50 <HM> blockchain.info says 2.52210262
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165 2013-02-03 02:24:20 <a5m0> HM, blockchain.info says insuffecient balance when trying to send though, and brainwallet shows near 0 balance, all other blockexplorers says transaction length is too long to process
166 2013-02-03 02:24:38 <a5m0> so i'm thinking that blockchain.info is truncating the transaction log and claiming there are coins there that aren't
167 2013-02-03 02:24:45 <a5m0> but i can't seem to check it on any other clients...
168 2013-02-03 02:27:23 <HM> hmm
169 2013-02-03 02:28:01 <HM> hang out here until a sage turns up
170 2013-02-03 02:30:28 veralibertas has joined
171 2013-02-03 02:32:19 <BCB> ;;rate weenfan 3 multiple Bank Of American to Bitcoin Transactions. Always smooth.
172 2013-02-03 02:32:21 <gribble> Rating entry successful. Your rating for user weenfan has changed from 2 to 3.
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184 2013-02-03 02:55:28 <Luke-Jr> anyone have a magic cure for libtool? :/
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186 2013-02-03 02:56:58 <BCB> Luke-Jr, what seems to ail it
187 2013-02-03 02:57:17 <Luke-Jr> BCB: its stupid .la files
188 2013-02-03 03:06:02 <HM> you need to go to cmake.org and download a fix
189 2013-02-03 03:06:59 <gmaxwell> HM: why is abandoning portablity, cross-compling, etc better than just not building/using static libraries?
190 2013-02-03 03:09:04 veralibertas has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
191 2013-02-03 03:09:19 <Luke-Jr> HM: then it wouldn't cross-compile at all?
192 2013-02-03 03:09:33 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I'm not even trying to use static libraries :<
193 2013-02-03 03:09:58 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: libblkmaker installs two shared libraries, and libtool is being stupid about it
194 2013-02-03 03:10:56 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: are you using nested autotools?
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196 2013-02-03 03:13:04 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: yes, though I'm pretty sure I'd have this problem without that
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216 2013-02-03 03:38:48 <benkay> bitcoin charts down. owner notified?
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309 2013-02-03 10:40:00 <Pucilowski> When a block is orphaned does the reference client still save the block? Or does it discard it as soon as its invalid?
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332 2013-02-03 11:45:36 <bitnumus> Hi, anyone here got the time for a side project? I need a web app coding please pm me
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355 2013-02-03 12:39:35 <rdponticelli> Pucilowski: The reference client stores orphaned blocks
356 2013-02-03 12:39:49 <Pucilowski> i see thanks
357 2013-02-03 12:40:25 <bitnumus> Any European coders here with the time to take on a web app I need coding?
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484 2013-02-03 18:59:03 <HM> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21280943
485 2013-02-03 19:03:12 da2ce7 has joined
486 2013-02-03 19:03:19 <moore_> HM the year 2038 bug should start showing up soon
487 2013-02-03 19:03:40 <HM> Sudden urge to learn COBOL
488 2013-02-03 19:03:46 <moore_> as banks to things like work out loans out 25 years in to the future
489 2013-02-03 19:03:52 da2ce7_d has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
490 2013-02-03 19:04:00 <HM> Why hasn't anyone ported Bitcoin to COBOL? That's what it needs for world dominations :P
491 2013-02-03 19:04:07 <moore_> :)
492 2013-02-03 19:04:50 <bitnumus> nice article
493 2013-02-03 19:05:12 <moore_> so I realized that blocking SD transactions actually makes it easer to preform double spending agintst any one who trusts transactions not in a block
494 2013-02-03 19:05:29 <Nabbo> Hi all, i'm trying to follow this https://people.xiph.org/~greg/signdemo.txt to understand well how transaction work, but I have some problem here is what I'm doing http://www.bitbin.it/wh0V8Q6I
495 2013-02-03 19:05:55 <moore_> also there is a funny silk road artical hear: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/02/police-crack-down-on-silk-road-following-first-drug-dealer-conviction/
496 2013-02-03 19:06:12 <moore_> where the cops are all look we caught some one!
497 2013-02-03 19:10:34 <HM> moore_: who trusts transactions outside of a block?
498 2013-02-03 19:11:00 <moore_> well ya it is not the best idea
499 2013-02-03 19:11:57 <moore_> but if you trust the paying party or if the trasaction is low value it is useful
500 2013-02-03 19:12:29 <moore_> having to wait five to ten more minutes to get your bear is anoying
501 2013-02-03 19:12:48 <moore_> ( being some one who has sold bear for bitcoin in the past )
502 2013-02-03 19:13:32 <HM> you sold a bear? :S
503 2013-02-03 19:13:45 <moore_> sory beer
504 2013-02-03 19:13:49 <moore_> gay
505 2013-02-03 19:13:56 <moore_> dam
506 2013-02-03 19:13:56 <HM> Sure sure
507 2013-02-03 19:13:59 <moore_> I ment gah
508 2013-02-03 19:14:11 <moore_> I am not the best at spelling or typing
509 2013-02-03 19:15:11 <gavinandresen> Nabbo: that looks like a bug
510 2013-02-03 19:15:22 <moore_> the point is that blocking SD transactions have be used to play tricks on any one simply by having some small output to SD in a trasaction
511 2013-02-03 19:15:25 <Eliel> brick & mortar stores basically need to accept unconfirmed transactions to accept bitcoin payments.
512 2013-02-03 19:15:59 <moore_> one of my side projects is to build payment termenals for some stores in San Francisco
513 2013-02-03 19:16:05 <Eliel> moore_: you mean output from SD?
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515 2013-02-03 19:16:18 <moore_> output to SD
516 2013-02-03 19:16:36 <moore_> if there is a output to SD many miners will ignore the trasaction
517 2013-02-03 19:16:58 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
518 2013-02-03 19:17:00 <moore_> Eliel did you see the post I wrote about cheeting at SD?
519 2013-02-03 19:17:24 <Eliel> I've seen some posts like that, not sure if one of them was yours :)
520 2013-02-03 19:18:12 <moore_> this is mine: https://plus.google.com/u/0/106313804833283549032/posts/Ccg2VreMTXw
521 2013-02-03 19:18:36 <Nabbo> gavinandresen, my bug or bitcoin bug? I tried it several time with different transactions(all by generation) but won't work I can't understand where I fail
522 2013-02-03 19:19:30 <HM> You get offline transactions with traditional plastic as well don't you?
523 2013-02-03 19:20:03 <HM> there's a value on your Chip and Pin card that says you can spend X without network auth
524 2013-02-03 19:20:30 <Eliel> moore_: I hadn't seen that before... interesting.
525 2013-02-03 19:21:18 jurov_ is now known as jurov
526 2013-02-03 19:22:12 <moore_> Eliel, I think you can attack bitpay with this too
527 2013-02-03 19:22:38 <moore_> they clear tranactios with reatilers before they are in the chain as far as I can tell
528 2013-02-03 19:23:04 <Ferroh> Why is this balance negative? http://blockchain.info/address/1dice97ECuByXAvqXpaYzSaQuPVvrtmz6
529 2013-02-03 19:23:05 <Eliel> moore_: that depends on the customer's settings.
530 2013-02-03 19:23:12 <gavinandresen> Nabbo: bitcoin bug; looks like it is broken with coin-generation transactions
531 2013-02-03 19:23:21 <gavinandresen> ("it" being signrawtransaction)
532 2013-02-03 19:23:31 <Ferroh> Just a blockchain.info bug, or is it due to unconfirmed transactions?
533 2013-02-03 19:23:36 <moore_> well if they want fast transactions, which I bet they do, they can be attacked
534 2013-02-03 19:23:48 <Eliel> Ferroh: I expect that's due to unconfirmed transactions and double spends... maybe.
535 2013-02-03 19:24:21 <HM> Meh, presumably as long as double spends are at a managable level you can just cover it through fees
536 2013-02-03 19:24:21 <Eliel> moore_: yes, I wonder how much can be done about that.
537 2013-02-03 19:24:22 <moore_> and the blocking of the SD trasactions opens up the attack not just for SD but also for bitpay and anyone else doing the same thing
538 2013-02-03 19:24:56 <moore_> well bitpay should refuse tx with a output to SD
539 2013-02-03 19:25:20 <moore_> and I think if you are a miner and want to block someone you need to be trasparent about what tx you are blocking
540 2013-02-03 19:25:41 <moore_> so that others can look for people trying to do this attack
541 2013-02-03 19:26:36 <gavinandresen> moore_ : high on my TODO list is to relay the "first double spend" so they are easier to detect.
542 2013-02-03 19:27:26 <Eliel> Yes, I agree, there needs to be some kind of algorithms developed for estimating the risk level on a unconfirmed tx.
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544 2013-02-03 19:28:57 <moore_> I think the biggest thing to do is just to know if it contains a output for a blocked address
545 2013-02-03 19:29:15 <moore_> it is the blocked addresses that make doubble spending easy
546 2013-02-03 19:29:41 <MC1984> gavinandresen nice!
547 2013-02-03 19:29:49 <Eliel> there's also some need to pay attention to how many other unconfirmed txs it depends on.
548 2013-02-03 19:29:53 dbe has joined
549 2013-02-03 19:30:00 <Eliel> as well as how likely those are to get confirmed
550 2013-02-03 19:30:13 <moore_> Eliel, good point
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553 2013-02-03 19:30:33 <Eliel> gavinandresen: that's a great thing to have :)
554 2013-02-03 19:30:42 <moore_> I could chain a TX though one with a output to SD so you could not even see it directly
555 2013-02-03 19:31:24 <Eliel> this is not just a problem with satoshidice txs
556 2013-02-03 19:31:45 <moore_> are there other addresses that are blocked?
557 2013-02-03 19:31:46 <Eliel> there was a coinbase tx recently that was over 1kb but with only 0.0005 txfee.
558 2013-02-03 19:32:01 <moore_> O ya
559 2013-02-03 19:32:11 <moore_> there are lots of edge cases hear
560 2013-02-03 19:32:12 <Eliel> so, the fee was enough that it propagated but not enough for most pools to include it in blocks
561 2013-02-03 19:32:20 <moore_> but
562 2013-02-03 19:32:24 <moore_> the SD makes it worse
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564 2013-02-03 19:32:51 <moore_> as I think pools that drop thous TX would not count a conflicting TX as a doubble spend
565 2013-02-03 19:33:10 <moore_> but you make a really good point
566 2013-02-03 19:33:26 <moore_> there are other ways to make TX that will be rejected
567 2013-02-03 19:33:52 <moore_> it seems like if a miner rejects a TX they should share that information
568 2013-02-03 19:33:59 <Eliel> the most dangerous cases are txs that will get propagated but not included in blocks.
569 2013-02-03 19:34:18 <moore_> agree
570 2013-02-03 19:35:13 <moore_> as always this was a interesting conversation.
571 2013-02-03 19:35:20 <moore_> I am off to ride my bike for a bit
572 2013-02-03 19:36:06 <Eliel> gavinandresen: are there any fixes going in to 0.8 that will synchronize the tx propagation and block inclusion rules more closely?
573 2013-02-03 19:37:53 <gavinandresen> Eliel: in-the-future-lockTime transactions won't get relayed by 0.8
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580 2013-02-03 19:45:37 BCB is now known as buybtcineuro`
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582 2013-02-03 19:46:00 buybtcineuro` is now known as BCB
583 2013-02-03 19:49:54 BCB is now known as `ReliableSources
584 2013-02-03 19:50:09 `ReliableSources is now known as BCB
585 2013-02-03 19:50:26 BCB is now known as `Pirateat40
586 2013-02-03 20:03:59 `Pirateat40 is now known as BCB
587 2013-02-03 20:04:28 * jgarzik needs to debug why Avalon sees so many 'get failures' when getwork'ing directly to bitcoind
588 2013-02-03 20:04:34 <jgarzik> no other pool behaves that way
589 2013-02-03 20:06:25 owowo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
590 2013-02-03 20:08:33 <jgarzik> this transaction paid over 17 BTC in fees: http://blockexplorer.com/tx/180b7d0dac4c945744ff708d4840a86558b1e0d4850181df8a32fdfaa7aefcc4
591 2013-02-03 20:08:56 <jgarzik> and this one 7 BTC, in same block: http://blockexplorer.com/tx/2db7e39d1c742278b512b3c70464823062e760d31eca519c6e22fb12f255265b
592 2013-02-03 20:09:54 <MC1984> damn
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595 2013-02-03 20:11:24 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: thinking about that...doesnt not relaying nLockTime txn provide a false sense of security while also breaking legitimate uses of nLockTime?
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598 2013-02-03 20:19:31 <MC1984> did anyone ever audit the way bitcoin handles wallet encryption
599 2013-02-03 20:19:49 <muhoo> holy sheep shit
600 2013-02-03 20:20:14 <MC1984> or is the function from an external program that is well reviewed like openssl or whatever?
601 2013-02-03 20:20:24 <Luke-Jr> MC1984: wallet encryption doesn't protect against much anyway
602 2013-02-03 20:20:35 <Luke-Jr> even if it works, it really only keeps your brother out
603 2013-02-03 20:21:14 <MC1984> um it stps your coins being txn'ed without your express consent
604 2013-02-03 20:21:29 <muhoo> i wouldn't keep any serious money anywhere except a paper wallet
605 2013-02-03 20:21:30 <MC1984> assuming good non phished password
606 2013-02-03 20:21:35 <kjj> no it doesn't
607 2013-02-03 20:21:58 <kjj> it saves you if you lose your backup, but that's about all
608 2013-02-03 20:22:39 <MC1984> anyone gonna explain what they mean?
609 2013-02-03 20:23:18 <MC1984> i said encryption not deterministic wallet
610 2013-02-03 20:23:19 <muhoo> a friend got hzxx0red and a large chunk of his coins stolen, a few months ago. all in his winbloze laptop on a non-tor-connectted bitcoind wallet
611 2013-02-03 20:23:26 <MC1984> the only bitcoin qt has in it
612 2013-02-03 20:24:00 <Luke-Jr> MC1984: you coins can't be txn'd without your consent, even without wallet encryption
613 2013-02-03 20:24:02 <MC1984> how?
614 2013-02-03 20:24:51 <Luke-Jr> but yeah, I guess it helps with backups
615 2013-02-03 20:25:06 <Luke-Jr> but backups are best encrypted as a whole anyway
616 2013-02-03 20:25:18 <kjj> if your computer is pwn3d, the attacker will just wait until you enter the passphrase and then empty your wallet
617 2013-02-03 20:25:43 <Luke-Jr> ^
618 2013-02-03 20:26:01 <MC1984> yeah were talking about how bitcoin does it not if the user gives away the password
619 2013-02-03 20:26:17 <kjj> if, however, they merely get a copy of your wallet file, they can't do anything with it
620 2013-02-03 20:26:24 <MC1984> muhoo how did your friend get hacked?
621 2013-02-03 20:26:30 <MC1984> real hacked or phised?
622 2013-02-03 20:26:57 <Luke-Jr> MC1984: there isn't many circumstances where someone can copy your wallet.dat, but can't get your passphrase too
623 2013-02-03 20:27:05 <muhoo> MC1984: i don't know. he doesn't either. he just called me in a panic.
624 2013-02-03 20:27:38 <MC1984> muhoo and he just left a connectable bitcoin open all the time?
625 2013-02-03 20:27:45 <muhoo> MC1984: yes
626 2013-02-03 20:27:50 <valparaiso> muhoo: "non-tor-connected" why do you mention that ? (Curious)
627 2013-02-03 20:28:00 <muhoo> eh wasn't running bitcoind through tor
628 2013-02-03 20:28:07 <Luke-Jr> muhoo: that's not relevant
629 2013-02-03 20:28:09 <MC1984> see thats what i mean, what if theres an implementation flaw in bitcoin or its encryption that allows that
630 2013-02-03 20:28:11 <valparaiso> Yes, and ?
631 2013-02-03 20:28:20 <MC1984> muhoo did he have wallet encryption?
632 2013-02-03 20:28:31 <muhoo> MC1984: indeed.
633 2013-02-03 20:28:52 <HM> this is why webwallets are probably safer for your average joe
634 2013-02-03 20:28:54 <muhoo> Luke-Jr: it may not be. but he was trying to figure out how attackers knew he had a lot of coins sitting on a node at that ip address.
635 2013-02-03 20:28:56 <HM> people suck at personal security
636 2013-02-03 20:29:02 <valparaiso> If your laptop is trojaned, that's it. Ht wallet gone
637 2013-02-03 20:29:07 <MC1984> ^so i ask again, has it ever been audited (if its bespoke code)?
638 2013-02-03 20:29:14 <Luke-Jr> muhoo: they probably didn't
639 2013-02-03 20:29:22 <muhoo> Luke-Jr: random chance?
640 2013-02-03 20:29:22 <Scrat> MC1984: you type in your password, trojan logs it along with the process name
641 2013-02-03 20:29:27 <Luke-Jr> muhoo: or rather, they probably had their botnet run a "look for big wallets"
642 2013-02-03 20:29:35 <muhoo> Luke-Jr: aye
643 2013-02-03 20:29:50 <Luke-Jr> or perhaps just robbed every wallet they had
644 2013-02-03 20:29:55 <MC1984> im not and have never been talking about trojans hw many times........
645 2013-02-03 20:29:58 <jgarzik> note that the wallet is not encrypted wholesale
646 2013-02-03 20:30:02 <jgarzik> just the private keys
647 2013-02-03 20:30:02 <jgarzik> iirc
648 2013-02-03 20:30:19 <muhoo> who knows. like i said, he didn't do any methodical forensics. just wiped the laptop, and got what he had into cold storage ASAP
649 2013-02-03 20:31:08 <muhoo> then he called me to help him set up a clean-install linux laptop, with tor, and disk encryption, just to lock the barn dooor
650 2013-02-03 20:31:56 <muhoo> no more windows for him. and, cold storage for all large denominations of coins.
651 2013-02-03 20:32:07 dvide has joined
652 2013-02-03 20:32:29 <MC1984> was there ever any bug that let someone get into the filesystem (or otherwise take wallet.dat) directly through bitcoind?
653 2013-02-03 20:32:33 <valparaiso> Imo your bitcoin nodes should run on a dedicated, console only, highly firewalled box, with bitcoind running on a shell-less -*nix account
654 2013-02-03 20:32:47 <MC1984> i think there was a bug that make the first version of wallet encryption worthless right
655 2013-02-03 20:33:28 paybitcoin has joined
656 2013-02-03 20:33:44 <kjj> meh. not entirely worthless.
657 2013-02-03 20:33:55 <muhoo> valparaiso: access only through json-rpc?
658 2013-02-03 20:33:57 <kjj> it just didn't invalidate the existing keypool
659 2013-02-03 20:34:34 <Luke-Jr> MC1984: no, wallet encryption was mostly just to deal with bad press IMO
660 2013-02-03 20:34:49 paybitcoin1 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
661 2013-02-03 20:34:54 <valparaiso> yes, and no privileges for the process. No root access, ssh with key auth only on a very limited user account, nothing else on the box
662 2013-02-03 20:35:35 <muhoo> my understanding is that the real "password" is the pk's. you have those, you have the coins. you don't, then you don't.
663 2013-02-03 20:35:51 <HM> if you're running on Linux you should consider a sandboxing implementation
664 2013-02-03 20:35:59 <HM> IPC, PID, Filesystem namespaces etc
665 2013-02-03 20:36:37 <Scrat> or run bitcoind in a VM
666 2013-02-03 20:36:56 <Luke-Jr> no amount of sandboxing bitcoind is going to keep a vulnerability away from your wallet..
667 2013-02-03 20:37:03 <HM> yeah great unless the host is compromised Scrat
668 2013-02-03 20:37:39 <muhoo> yeah, if someone has rooted you, they can get to mmap and all kinds of stuff, install keyloggers, etc
669 2013-02-03 20:38:14 <valparaiso> Even having apache runing on 80 is already too much of a risk. Dedicated lowend box, no secondhand hardware, minimal linux/bsd
670 2013-02-03 20:38:16 <Scrat> if the host is compromised and it has rpc access to another machine it's almost the same deal
671 2013-02-03 20:38:36 Muis has joined
672 2013-02-03 20:38:47 <HM> there are lots of interesting things people have tried
673 2013-02-03 20:38:58 <Scrat> which is why I like freebsd for this. each public facing daemon in its own jail
674 2013-02-03 20:39:07 <Scrat> very low overhead
675 2013-02-03 20:39:21 <HM> the only safe way is to not rely on a reusable wallet
676 2013-02-03 20:39:33 <Scrat> true that. dont keep everything in your hot wallet
677 2013-02-03 20:39:47 zooko has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
678 2013-02-03 20:39:59 <muhoo> if you had US$400k, would you walk around with it in your pocket?
679 2013-02-03 20:40:04 <HM> OS level isolation only helps until your kernel is compromised...
680 2013-02-03 20:40:09 <HM> which happens often
681 2013-02-03 20:40:31 <muhoo> i treat hot wallets like physical wallets. i only keep in there what i'll need to spend immediately
682 2013-02-03 20:41:21 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
683 2013-02-03 20:41:28 <muhoo> that seems to be best practices in bitcoin land, AFAICT so far
684 2013-02-03 20:43:24 twixed has quit (Quit: Leaving)
685 2013-02-03 20:46:36 <HM> Bitcoins in a bit of a bind
686 2013-02-03 20:47:30 <HM> The people with the experience in coding up sensitive financial platforms are outweighed greatly by someone with a cool idea who just learned about the currency
687 2013-02-03 20:48:01 <HM> nobody should want to use a service who learns the craft through making expensive cockups
688 2013-02-03 20:48:30 <Luke-Jr> valparaiso: an idea I had a while ago, but ruined by Intel.. a bootable Linux USB key that runs your ordinary OS in a VM with all the hardware passthru'd
689 2013-02-03 20:49:03 <Luke-Jr> valparaiso: then when Bitcoin-Qt or whatever wants to sign a transaction, it disconnects the video card, mouse, and keyboard, and prompts you securely outside the VM
690 2013-02-03 20:49:11 <Luke-Jr> and signs it there
691 2013-02-03 20:49:43 zooko has joined
692 2013-02-03 20:50:02 <Luke-Jr> then, a cracker looking to get your keys would need to do something insane like hack a firewire device to DMA the host system <.<
693 2013-02-03 20:50:10 <valparaiso> Yes, exactly.
694 2013-02-03 20:50:23 <valparaiso> This is very sound.
695 2013-02-03 20:50:23 <HM> Luke-Jr: wouldn't a Bitcoin dongle make more sense?
696 2013-02-03 20:50:37 <Luke-Jr> HM: yes, that's another option, but not something practical for a software guy like me :P
697 2013-02-03 20:50:56 <Luke-Jr> and much less interesting IMO
698 2013-02-03 20:51:02 <valparaiso> Depends who makes it i guess. I'd trust the cryptokey guys
699 2013-02-03 20:51:14 <Luke-Jr> who?
700 2013-02-03 20:51:19 <valparaiso> Sec
701 2013-02-03 20:51:27 <HM> if you had software that generated the transaction but didn't provide the signiture then you could have a hardware dongle that generated the sig for you to transcribe
702 2013-02-03 20:51:31 <Luke-Jr> valparaiso: did you see the Bitcoin wallet wireless device someone made? ;)
703 2013-02-03 20:51:35 <kjj> you need a hardware device with a VERY limited connection to the computer. serial would work, as would screen+camera (QR, etc)
704 2013-02-03 20:51:38 <HM> private key never leaves the dongle
705 2013-02-03 20:51:52 <HM> dongle has no network capacity
706 2013-02-03 20:52:32 <Luke-Jr> HM: someone made one, actually, more or less
707 2013-02-03 20:52:44 <Luke-Jr> HM: but they forgot to get a high-quality RNG for it
708 2013-02-03 20:52:48 <valparaiso> Luke-Jr: Nope. Link ? (Looking for my own link in the meantime)
709 2013-02-03 20:52:50 <Luke-Jr> so the private keys turned out to be vulnerable
710 2013-02-03 20:53:01 <HM> it'd be tedious i think because you'd have to type a long ass hash and then transcribe a long ass sig
711 2013-02-03 20:53:04 <Luke-Jr> valparaiso: I forget the link XD
712 2013-02-03 20:53:22 <Luke-Jr> HM: obviously you'd not type it
713 2013-02-03 20:53:32 <valparaiso> Yes same here, googling like a madman right now. Guys are german
714 2013-02-03 20:53:34 <HM> what then?
715 2013-02-03 20:53:37 <Luke-Jr> HM: PC sends the transaction, inputs over USB
716 2013-02-03 20:53:51 <Luke-Jr> HM: device decodes and displays the info, you press button and it sends the PC back a signature
717 2013-02-03 20:54:02 <HM> that's no good, as soon as you have a general purpose interface you're potentially vulnerable
718 2013-02-03 20:54:06 <HM> USB is a complex protocol
719 2013-02-03 20:54:08 <Luke-Jr> â¦
720 2013-02-03 20:54:12 <Luke-Jr> too bad
721 2013-02-03 20:54:24 <Luke-Jr> even if you typed it manually, you're still potentially vulnerable
722 2013-02-03 20:54:39 <Luke-Jr> now the attacker will just focus on giving you a phony address for some purchase you really want to make
723 2013-02-03 20:54:41 <valparaiso> Ok, that's them: http://www.privacyfoundation.de/crypto_stick/crypto_stick_english/
724 2013-02-03 20:54:59 <HM> Luke-Jr: that's phishing
725 2013-02-03 20:55:34 <HM> it's not really VISAs job to prevent you using your card to pay for things from a conartist
726 2013-02-03 20:55:48 <valparaiso> USB is scary, yes
727 2013-02-03 20:56:19 <valparaiso> Like this : http://events.ccc.de/congress/2012/Fahrplan/events/5327.en.html
728 2013-02-03 20:56:41 <HM> hah i watched that
729 2013-02-03 20:56:45 t7 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
730 2013-02-03 20:56:48 <HM> I was going to go to CCC this year but something came up
731 2013-02-03 20:56:55 Aranjedeath has joined
732 2013-02-03 20:56:58 da2ce7 has joined
733 2013-02-03 20:57:32 t7 has joined
734 2013-02-03 20:57:40 <HM> last year*
735 2013-02-03 20:57:58 da2ce7_d has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
736 2013-02-03 20:58:02 <valparaiso> This year was a good milesime. Couldn't make it either. The anonymouth girls talk was pretty interesting too
737 2013-02-03 20:58:08 <HM> I don't know why they have to have it between xmas and new year
738 2013-02-03 20:58:09 <Aranjedeath> I'm getting a crash on startup with bitcoind on freebsd
739 2013-02-03 20:58:58 <Aranjedeath> http://pastie.org/private/hl7k6oe10czliimy4ja0g
740 2013-02-03 20:59:18 <HM> that should be easy to debug
741 2013-02-03 20:59:33 <Aranjedeath> well, internet says it's due to boost libs
742 2013-02-03 20:59:45 <Aranjedeath> a bug which was supposedly fixed some versions ago
743 2013-02-03 20:59:51 <HM> that's possible
744 2013-02-03 21:00:00 <HM> what version of boost is your installation carrying?
745 2013-02-03 21:00:17 <Aranjedeath> boost-libs-1.52.0
746 2013-02-03 21:00:28 <HM> hmm that's the latest
747 2013-02-03 21:01:03 <HM> what code in bitcoin would be setting the locale for something...
748 2013-02-03 21:01:34 <Aranjedeath> I didn't even build the gui, so I have no idea
749 2013-02-03 21:01:37 <Aranjedeath> headless box and all
750 2013-02-03 21:02:39 <HM> do you have access to gdb?
751 2013-02-03 21:02:44 <Aranjedeath> I don't know?
752 2013-02-03 21:02:52 <Aranjedeath> how would I ascertain that
753 2013-02-03 21:03:01 <HM> it's the GNU debugger
754 2013-02-03 21:03:07 <Aranjedeath> If it's something that needs compiled up, I've got root as well
755 2013-02-03 21:03:38 <Aranjedeath> it's installed
756 2013-02-03 21:03:52 <Aranjedeath> GNU gdb 6.1.1 [FreeBSD]
757 2013-02-03 21:04:06 <Aranjedeath> do I... gdb bitcoind ?
758 2013-02-03 21:04:20 <HM> try this
759 2013-02-03 21:04:26 <HM> LC_ALL=C bitcoind
760 2013-02-03 21:04:56 <Aranjedeath> It didn't crash
761 2013-02-03 21:05:08 <Aranjedeath> oh I didn't -daemon, so it's running in console
762 2013-02-03 21:05:08 <Aranjedeath> haha
763 2013-02-03 21:05:25 <HM> <-- wizard
764 2013-02-03 21:05:42 <Aranjedeath> okay, so what does that do? I recognize that as locale related
765 2013-02-03 21:05:49 <Aranjedeath> or, what's a more permanant hack
766 2013-02-03 21:05:52 <Aranjedeath> :D
767 2013-02-03 21:05:58 <HM> LC_ALL env variable controls locales for all the things
768 2013-02-03 21:06:27 <Aranjedeath> what does C mean?
769 2013-02-03 21:06:27 <HM> your system local is probably utf-8_something
770 2013-02-03 21:06:30 <Aranjedeath> yeah
771 2013-02-03 21:06:39 <Aranjedeath> en_US.utf8 or something funny
772 2013-02-03 21:06:40 <HM> it's the "C" programming language default locale
773 2013-02-03 21:06:45 <Aranjedeath> ahh, alright
774 2013-02-03 21:07:32 <HM> the bitcoind should maybe setlocale(LC_ALL, "C") when it starts up
775 2013-02-03 21:07:34 <HM> i don't know
776 2013-02-03 21:07:42 * Aranjedeath nods
777 2013-02-03 21:08:07 <HM> if you run "locale" you'll see your current locale settings
778 2013-02-03 21:08:31 <Aranjedeath> en_US.UTF-8
779 2013-02-03 21:08:41 <HM> yeah that's interesting
780 2013-02-03 21:08:42 <Aranjedeath> LC_ALL is not set though
781 2013-02-03 21:08:43 <Aranjedeath> all the rest are
782 2013-02-03 21:08:47 <HM> yeah same here
783 2013-02-03 21:08:55 <HM> but mine is en_GB.UTF-8
784 2013-02-03 21:09:13 <Aranjedeath> british english :)
785 2013-02-03 21:09:16 <HM> what's uncommented in /etc/locale.gen
786 2013-02-03 21:09:46 <Aranjedeath> I don't know where that file is
787 2013-02-03 21:09:57 <HM> it might be GNU libc specific actually
788 2013-02-03 21:10:03 <HM> I haven't use FreeBSD in a while
789 2013-02-03 21:10:05 <HM> *used
790 2013-02-03 21:10:56 <Aranjedeath> seems gnu specific, but I'm assuming there's an analogue somewhere
791 2013-02-03 21:11:14 <HM> yeah i guess the bug is probably in boost
792 2013-02-03 21:11:28 Jamesz has joined
793 2013-02-03 21:18:01 <Aranjedeath> I can't figure out where to set that to get it to stick
794 2013-02-03 21:18:24 zooko has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
795 2013-02-03 21:19:58 <HM> Aranjedeath: you really don't want to
796 2013-02-03 21:20:14 <HM> setting LC_ALL=C system wide would be a bad thing
797 2013-02-03 21:20:33 <Aranjedeath> I'm trying to set it for my user
798 2013-02-03 21:20:36 <HM> setup a shell alias for bitcoind
799 2013-02-03 21:20:57 <Aranjedeath> so I don't have to type LC_ALL=C before every getinfo or so
800 2013-02-03 21:21:05 <Aranjedeath> mm, alright
801 2013-02-03 21:25:37 Diapolo has joined
802 2013-02-03 21:27:44 Diapolo has left ()
803 2013-02-03 21:27:45 asuk has joined
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805 2013-02-03 21:30:47 da2ce7_d has joined
806 2013-02-03 21:31:31 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
807 2013-02-03 21:32:15 mappum has joined
808 2013-02-03 21:34:19 Guest3399 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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810 2013-02-03 21:37:03 ken` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
811 2013-02-03 21:39:35 <Nabbo> createrawtransaction [{"txid":txid,"vout":n},...] {address:amount,...} how can I include fee when try to create a raw transaction?
812 2013-02-03 21:41:10 <Luke-Jr> Nabbo: fee is just the amount of inputs you don't spend
813 2013-02-03 21:43:12 Unknown43131 has joined
814 2013-02-03 21:45:10 t7_ has joined
815 2013-02-03 21:45:38 <Aranjedeath> so this is neat... my blockchain is arranged in a really weird way
816 2013-02-03 21:45:54 <Aranjedeath> wiki says all the blk*.dat should be in .bitcoin (given defaults)
817 2013-02-03 21:46:02 t7 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
818 2013-02-03 21:46:28 <Aranjedeath> but they're in .bitcoin/blocks/ along with rev*.dat
819 2013-02-03 21:46:54 <Aranjedeath> and there's also a coins dir with stuff in it
820 2013-02-03 21:47:10 <Aranjedeath> and a blktree dir
821 2013-02-03 21:47:31 <Aranjedeath> did I generate coins or something on accident previously? (I'm restoring from a backup, haha)
822 2013-02-03 21:48:13 <MC1984> the wiki needs updating
823 2013-02-03 21:48:20 <MC1984> you have the ned database format
824 2013-02-03 21:48:25 <MC1984> new
825 2013-02-03 21:48:27 ken` has joined
826 2013-02-03 21:48:35 <Aranjedeath> oh
827 2013-02-03 21:48:41 <Aranjedeath> haha I see the problem then
828 2013-02-03 21:48:45 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
829 2013-02-03 21:48:54 Jamesz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
830 2013-02-03 21:49:03 <Aranjedeath> I'm running stable bitcoind on this new box, whereas I bet I was running a git compiled version or something on the old computer
831 2013-02-03 21:49:20 <Aranjedeath> 080 build
832 2013-02-03 21:50:08 <MC1984> 0.8 isnt out yet
833 2013-02-03 21:50:20 agricocb has joined
834 2013-02-03 21:50:25 <MC1984> close though
835 2013-02-03 21:50:33 <Aranjedeath> yeah, but I'm dumb enough to run alpha code
836 2013-02-03 21:50:41 <Aranjedeath> that's probably what happened
837 2013-02-03 21:50:52 <MC1984> sounds like it
838 2013-02-03 21:50:57 <MC1984> its quite a lot faster
839 2013-02-03 21:50:59 <Aranjedeath> this blockchain is from... early december I think
840 2013-02-03 21:51:11 <valparaiso> Yes i was surprised last time i built from trunk. (New db)
841 2013-02-03 21:51:30 <HM> will 0.8/git convert from current format?
842 2013-02-03 21:51:43 <HM> clearly it has to because not everyone can bootstrap :P
843 2013-02-03 21:51:43 <Aranjedeath> heh, well maybe I can just build up 080 again
844 2013-02-03 21:51:44 <MC1984> i dont know when they formally merged the leveldb into the mainline
845 2013-02-03 21:51:50 <MC1984> i beleive that is the parlance
846 2013-02-03 21:52:04 <Aranjedeath> yeah, bunch of sst files
847 2013-02-03 21:52:13 * Aranjedeath balks
848 2013-02-03 21:52:35 <MC1984> HM i thin so
849 2013-02-03 21:53:02 <MC1984> tho last time i heard it would leave the old blocks intact too? doubling storage requirement :/
850 2013-02-03 21:53:47 <Aranjedeath> I should figure you'd rm the old ones, assuming a perfectly successful import
851 2013-02-03 21:54:11 <Aranjedeath> but that is also deleting data on customer hd's... which sounds like a really dangerous idea too
852 2013-02-03 21:54:30 <MC1984> normal people arnt going to have a clue about doing that
853 2013-02-03 21:54:54 <MC1984> they probably dont want to risk accidentally slagging the chain for lots of people at once
854 2013-02-03 21:56:29 <HM> indeed
855 2013-02-03 21:58:21 Nabbo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
856 2013-02-03 21:58:29 <Luke-Jr> HM: 0.8/git will import the current blocks with a hardlink IIRC, and then reindexes it
857 2013-02-03 21:59:04 <HM> and new blocks?
858 2013-02-03 21:59:09 <Luke-Jr> hardlink also means it doesn't use any more space
859 2013-02-03 21:59:38 <Luke-Jr> HM: after the first run, old and new versions download independently
860 2013-02-03 21:59:58 <Aranjedeath> whew, that blew up spectacularly
861 2013-02-03 22:00:20 <Aranjedeath> nice error
862 2013-02-03 22:00:27 <Luke-Jr> Aranjedeath: oh, and dont try moving the old blk* files to the old place..
863 2013-02-03 22:00:41 <Aranjedeath> /bitcoin/src/makefile.unix", line 19: Need an operator
864 2013-02-03 22:00:43 <Aranjedeath> lots of those
865 2013-02-03 22:00:52 <Aranjedeath> I'm not, I'm trying to compile out of git
866 2013-02-03 22:01:01 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
867 2013-02-03 22:01:07 <Luke-Jr> Aranjedeath: GNU?
868 2013-02-03 22:01:26 <Aranjedeath> I don't know how to answer a three letter question
869 2013-02-03 22:01:33 * Aranjedeath smiles
870 2013-02-03 22:01:37 <HM> lol
871 2013-02-03 22:01:42 <Luke-Jr> Aranjedeath: what OS? :p
872 2013-02-03 22:01:50 <Aranjedeath> Ah! freebsd.
873 2013-02-03 22:01:53 <HM> GNU is short for "GNU is Not Unix"
874 2013-02-03 22:02:00 <Luke-Jr> yeah, FreeBSD is in the "not supported" zone still
875 2013-02-03 22:02:06 <Aranjedeath> damn
876 2013-02-03 22:02:30 <Aranjedeath> and yet the file is makefile.unix
877 2013-02-03 22:02:31 <Aranjedeath> :|
878 2013-02-03 22:02:43 * Aranjedeath giggles
879 2013-02-03 22:02:53 <Luke-Jr> Aranjedeath: you could try with gmake
880 2013-02-03 22:03:05 <Aranjedeath> is that a change in the makefile?
881 2013-02-03 22:03:09 <Luke-Jr> I'm certain you'll hit more problems, but meh
882 2013-02-03 22:03:20 <Luke-Jr> Aranjedeath: no, it's the name of GNU Make on FreeBSD
883 2013-02-03 22:03:37 <Luke-Jr> in most systems, GNU Make is 'make'
884 2013-02-03 22:03:51 * Aranjedeath knows very little about compiling software except how to use make config and make install clean :D
885 2013-02-03 22:04:09 <Luke-Jr> why are you using BSD? :P
886 2013-02-03 22:04:22 <Aranjedeath> because it's very easy to manage
887 2013-02-03 22:04:30 <Luke-Jr> apparently not
888 2013-02-03 22:04:41 <Aranjedeath> and I can forget about it for 6 months and everything just keeps running
889 2013-02-03 22:05:35 <Aranjedeath> I was recently confused why it was 5 versions behind on mariadb, as it turns out I'd never restarted mariadb to get the new binary. That one had been running for over a year.
890 2013-02-03 22:05:53 * Aranjedeath laughs
891 2013-02-03 22:06:30 <HM> Debian Linux can be like that
892 2013-02-03 22:06:41 <Luke-Jr> HM: so can Debian FreeBSD
893 2013-02-03 22:06:43 <Aranjedeath> oh! gmake made it farther than make
894 2013-02-03 22:06:43 <Luke-Jr> :P
895 2013-02-03 22:06:47 <HM> i once bought a VPS and then forgot i'd bought it
896 2013-02-03 22:07:05 <Aranjedeath> yeah debian stable will kinda just keep running
897 2013-02-03 22:07:22 <Luke-Jr> HM: one time, I got a free trial dedi, and it had some problem so I emailed support and forgot about it
898 2013-02-03 22:07:28 <Luke-Jr> HM: a month later, I get a bill..
899 2013-02-03 22:07:32 <HM> i keep thinking debian is broken because they never seem to update the kernel :S
900 2013-02-03 22:07:40 <Aranjedeath> haha
901 2013-02-03 22:08:02 <Aranjedeath> gmake raged at the source code
902 2013-02-03 22:08:04 <Luke-Jr> HM: sure they do
903 2013-02-03 22:08:09 <Aranjedeath> and crashed eventually
904 2013-02-03 22:08:10 <Aranjedeath> :D
905 2013-02-03 22:08:47 t7_ is now known as t7
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913 2013-02-03 22:12:55 <HM> Luke-Jr: afaict they haven't touched the debian stable kernel in months
914 2013-02-03 22:13:07 mappum has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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916 2013-02-03 22:14:52 <Luke-Jr> HM: changelog says they last updated it Jan 12
917 2013-02-03 22:15:06 <Luke-Jr> 2011
918 2013-02-03 22:15:49 <Luke-Jr> jk ;)
919 2013-02-03 22:15:49 <HM> nawww
920 2013-02-03 22:15:56 <Luke-Jr> Sep 23, 2012 really
921 2013-02-03 22:15:59 <HM> 23 Sep 2012
922 2013-02-03 22:16:01 <Luke-Jr> probably no need to update since then
923 2013-02-03 22:16:55 <HM> i may as well try out git
924 2013-02-03 22:17:20 <HM> wtf my vps is odwn
925 2013-02-03 22:18:00 JWU42 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
926 2013-02-03 22:18:21 <HM> nope i'm just lagging like hell
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941 2013-02-03 22:45:09 <HM> hmm
942 2013-02-03 22:45:15 <HM> bitcoind compiles for me but doesn't link
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947 2013-02-03 22:52:37 <Aranjedeath> mine makes it to gmake: *** [obj/alert.o] Error 1
948 2013-02-03 22:58:06 silva has quit (Quit: Page closed)
949 2013-02-03 23:01:35 <HM> fixed mine by disabling UPNP
950 2013-02-03 23:01:44 ralphtheninja has left ()
951 2013-02-03 23:03:29 <Aranjedeath> huh
952 2013-02-03 23:03:36 <Aranjedeath> upnp is disabled already in mine
953 2013-02-03 23:03:46 <HM> nah UPNP=0 isn't disabled
954 2013-02-03 23:03:52 <Aranjedeath> upnp=-
955 2013-02-03 23:03:56 <HM> oh
956 2013-02-03 23:03:59 <Aranjedeath> I read the docs
957 2013-02-03 23:04:01 <Aranjedeath> :P
958 2013-02-03 23:04:13 <HM> and yet I have a binary and you don't :P
959 2013-02-03 23:04:20 dbe has joined
960 2013-02-03 23:04:21 <Aranjedeath> 1 is on, 0 is off but compiled in, and dash is disabled
961 2013-02-03 23:04:28 <Aranjedeath> well yes
962 2013-02-03 23:04:32 <Aranjedeath> you have a supported OS :P
963 2013-02-03 23:04:44 dbe is now known as Guest2178
964 2013-02-03 23:04:45 <HM> Who says?
965 2013-02-03 23:04:46 EPiSKiNG has joined
966 2013-02-03 23:04:58 <HM> I compiled it on Haiku
967 2013-02-03 23:05:02 <Aranjedeath> you were talking about debian before
968 2013-02-03 23:05:03 <HM> I swear
969 2013-02-03 23:05:51 <Aranjedeath> well apparently haiku is closer to linux than bsd is
970 2013-02-03 23:05:52 <Aranjedeath> :P
971 2013-02-03 23:06:55 <Aranjedeath> but eh, I get a good 100 lines of error before it fails
972 2013-02-03 23:08:36 topace has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
973 2013-02-03 23:09:52 <HM> hmm current blockchain dir is 7 GB
974 2013-02-03 23:10:23 <HM> i take it ~/.bitcoin is movable between machines without issue
975 2013-02-03 23:10:50 CodesInChaos has joined
976 2013-02-03 23:12:02 <HM> lol "
977 2013-02-03 23:12:04 <HM> To help make your bitcoin installation more secure by making certain attacks impossible to
978 2013-02-03 23:12:05 <HM> exploit even if a vulnerability is found, you can take the following measures
979 2013-02-03 23:12:07 <HM> IMPOSSIBLE
980 2013-02-03 23:12:48 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
981 2013-02-03 23:15:51 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: ping, can you comment on eeea340b17302c3b82d29a7d2f50238cd1b24af4 ?
982 2013-02-03 23:16:50 <Luke-Jr> HM: it does say *certain* attacks
983 2013-02-03 23:17:05 <Luke-Jr> HM: a remote crash is a lot nicer than a remote code execution
984 2013-02-03 23:17:20 da2ce7 has joined
985 2013-02-03 23:18:21 <HM> i read an article the other week about a guy exploiting an integer overflow to bypass NX, PIE and W^X memory policy
986 2013-02-03 23:18:33 <HM> it was amazing
987 2013-02-03 23:18:44 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
988 2013-02-03 23:20:01 rdymac has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
989 2013-02-03 23:21:41 <pjorrit> so link?
990 2013-02-03 23:23:04 TD has joined
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996 2013-02-03 23:28:58 mappum has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
997 2013-02-03 23:29:13 <HM> my connection is too laggy atm to go on a blog hunt
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1004 2013-02-03 23:46:05 <DBordello> How long does -rescan take? (I have a large wallet.dat)
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1008 2013-02-03 23:57:54 <kuzetsa> DBordello: dunno... I'm testing how effective -salvagewallet works on a backup though
1009 2013-02-03 23:58:15 <DBordello> kuzetsa, just a few minutes on a 27M wallet.dat. Not bad
1010 2013-02-03 23:58:24 <kuzetsa> which currently says "rescanning..."
1011 2013-02-03 23:58:44 <kuzetsa> DBordello: I'm certain it varies with processor speed
1012 2013-02-03 23:59:35 <kuzetsa> on my ULP (ultra low power) mobile core i3 laptop (mobile version... nicer than atom, but still only 1.2ghz) it might take longer