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  19 2013-02-04 00:46:48 <Aranjedeath> any guidance on what part of libboost we need?
  20 2013-02-04 00:47:03 paraipan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  21 2013-02-04 00:47:09 <Aranjedeath> 271mb of shit is a lot to install just to make bitcoin work :D
  22 2013-02-04 00:48:16 <HM2> what :S
  23 2013-02-04 00:49:02 <Aranjedeath> libboost1.48-all-dev pulls in 271mb of packages
  24 2013-02-04 00:49:13 <HM2> yeah
  25 2013-02-04 00:49:18 paraipan has joined
  26 2013-02-04 00:49:25 <HM2> if you're building bitcoind you'll need the huge dev package
  27 2013-02-04 00:49:30 <Aranjedeath> damn
  28 2013-02-04 00:49:34 <HM2> the boost-libraries themselves are <10MiB though
  29 2013-02-04 00:51:49 <HM2> bitcoind makes quite a lot of use of boost
  30 2013-02-04 00:52:19 <Aranjedeath> yeah
  31 2013-02-04 00:52:49 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
  32 2013-02-04 00:53:19 <HM2> check this out
  33 2013-02-04 00:54:14 <Aranjedeath> wat
  34 2013-02-04 00:54:25 <Aranjedeath> In file included from db.cpp:6:0:
  35 2013-02-04 00:54:25 <Aranjedeath> db.h:14:20: fatal error: db_cxx.h: No such file or directory
  36 2013-02-04 00:54:31 <HM2> http://pastebin.com/DtaPrB5z
  37 2013-02-04 00:54:41 <HM2> all the boost includes in the bitcoin source tree
  38 2013-02-04 00:54:56 <Aranjedeath> yeah
  39 2013-02-04 00:55:07 <HM2> i had no idea it used asio
  40 2013-02-04 00:55:18 <Aranjedeath> hmm
  41 2013-02-04 00:55:26 <Aranjedeath> so why does db_cxx.h not exist
  42 2013-02-04 00:55:33 * Aranjedeath grumbles
  43 2013-02-04 00:55:38 <HM2> hold on
  44 2013-02-04 00:56:09 <HM2> that's part of the berkley db package on my system
  45 2013-02-04 00:56:38 <Aranjedeath> I pulled in... libdb4.8
  46 2013-02-04 00:56:41 <Aranjedeath> and the dev package
  47 2013-02-04 00:56:46 <Aranjedeath> does that cover me?
  48 2013-02-04 00:56:48 <HM2> it's possible freebsd packages the c++ headers in a separate package
  49 2013-02-04 00:56:49 <Luke-Jr> Aranjedeath: make … BDB_INCLUDE_PATH=/usr/include/db4.8
  50 2013-02-04 00:56:59 <Luke-Jr> after installing the ++ pkg
  51 2013-02-04 00:57:05 <Aranjedeath> ++ package?
  52 2013-02-04 00:57:12 <Aranjedeath> they don't have ++'s in my repo
  53 2013-02-04 00:59:34 <D34TH> Aranjedeath: what distro
  54 2013-02-04 00:59:47 <Aranjedeath> ubuntu
  55 2013-02-04 00:59:50 <Aranjedeath> 12.04
  56 2013-02-04 01:00:01 <Aranjedeath> precise iirc
  57 2013-02-04 01:00:29 <Aranjedeath> huh, I had debs lying around from the last time I tried this
  58 2013-02-04 01:00:38 <Aranjedeath> why isn't it noted in the docs that you can't get them from the repo
  59 2013-02-04 01:01:21 <Aranjedeath> or is there a mysterious wiki page I should be reading :D
  60 2013-02-04 01:04:07 <D34TH> 64bit or 32
  61 2013-02-04 01:05:00 <Aranjedeath> 64bit
  62 2013-02-04 01:05:28 <Aranjedeath> I've got a set of really ugly-named debs that have libdb4.8++ and -dev
  63 2013-02-04 01:05:42 <Aranjedeath> seems to have fixed my issue
  64 2013-02-04 01:05:46 <D34TH> oh
  65 2013-02-04 01:06:02 <Aranjedeath> hence `huh, I had debs lying around from the last time I tried this`
  66 2013-02-04 01:06:14 rdymac has joined
  67 2013-02-04 01:06:19 <Aranjedeath> but the fact that you need libdb4.8++ is not noted in the makefile docs
  68 2013-02-04 01:06:47 <Aranjedeath> vs libdb4.8, which will come up in apt-cache search (even with the ++ on the name) and doesn't have what you need
  69 2013-02-04 01:06:48 <Aranjedeath> :P
  70 2013-02-04 01:07:27 <D34TH> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/build-unix.txt#L67
  71 2013-02-04 01:07:37 <D34TH> read that through line 72
  72 2013-02-04 01:08:30 <Aranjedeath> yep, but it breaks compatibility
  73 2013-02-04 01:08:38 <Aranjedeath> thaaats not cool :P
  74 2013-02-04 01:09:22 <D34TH> breaks compat with releases
  75 2013-02-04 01:09:32 <D34TH> just stay with master
  76 2013-02-04 01:09:34 <D34TH> :D
  77 2013-02-04 01:09:51 <Aranjedeath> lmao yeah
  78 2013-02-04 01:10:00 <Aranjedeath> I'm just trying to get a big one up and running :>
  79 2013-02-04 01:10:09 <Aranjedeath> I did it earlier but my node had to be taken down cause the box moved
  80 2013-02-04 01:10:26 <Aranjedeath> I had sustained over 145 connections
  81 2013-02-04 01:11:17 <Luke-Jr> Aranjedeath: why are you trying to compile at all? :P
  82 2013-02-04 01:12:14 <Luke-Jr> D34TH: breaks compat with 0.8 release too
  83 2013-02-04 01:12:24 <Aranjedeath> my blockchain is 080
  84 2013-02-04 01:15:13 moore_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  85 2013-02-04 01:15:33 <Aranjedeath> wiiiith any luck
  86 2013-02-04 01:19:44 rdymac has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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  89 2013-02-04 01:28:23 <Aranjedeath> badass, it's workin :D
  90 2013-02-04 01:28:32 <Aranjedeath> issss there any way to find out what the address is?
  91 2013-02-04 01:28:51 <Aranjedeath> listaccounts didn't provide anything useful
  92 2013-02-04 01:29:17 <Aranjedeath> maybe I have to generate an address?
  93 2013-02-04 01:37:17 <rdponticelli> Aranjedeath: getnewaddress to get a new
  94 2013-02-04 01:38:21 <Aranjedeath> rdponticelli:) thanks :)
  95 2013-02-04 01:38:21 <rdponticelli> getaddressesbyaccount to get the asigned to some account
  96 2013-02-04 01:38:44 <Aranjedeath> listaccounts only gives me "" : 0.00000000
  97 2013-02-04 01:39:12 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: for which project is that commit?
  98 2013-02-04 01:39:14 <rdponticelli> Yeah, that's the default account
  99 2013-02-04 01:39:22 <Aranjedeath> okay, how do I get the address?
 100 2013-02-04 01:39:24 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: cpuminer
 101 2013-02-04 01:39:32 <Aranjedeath> getaddressbyaccount returns method not found
 102 2013-02-04 01:39:51 <rdponticelli> getaddressesbyaccount
 103 2013-02-04 01:40:01 <Aranjedeath> oh!
 104 2013-02-04 01:40:05 <Aranjedeath> missed a letter or two :)
 105 2013-02-04 01:40:07 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: a two-line comment patch that is Via-CPU-specific?
 106 2013-02-04 01:40:10 <Luke-Jr> yes
 107 2013-02-04 01:40:13 <Aranjedeath> thank you very much
 108 2013-02-04 01:40:14 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: what about it?
 109 2013-02-04 01:40:30 <rdponticelli> Just use getnewaddress
 110 2013-02-04 01:40:30 Cory has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 111 2013-02-04 01:40:34 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: it confuses me, because bitcoind provided (getwork) the data in little endian, and it makes sense that it'd be converted to big endian for a dedicated processor like that
 112 2013-02-04 01:40:40 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: but the comment says the opposite
 113 2013-02-04 01:40:41 Pasha has joined
 114 2013-02-04 01:40:58 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: and this commit also states the VIA converts it *back* to big endian (really little endian?)
 115 2013-02-04 01:41:24 <HM2> go with middle endian
 116 2013-02-04 01:41:28 <HM2> then everyone is miserable
 117 2013-02-04 01:41:31 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: VIA CPU docs for this are public
 118 2013-02-04 01:41:35 <Luke-Jr> since it was added later, I'm wondering if there is some docs on the VIA which state how it handles the hashing internally?
 119 2013-02-04 01:41:44 <Luke-Jr> oh, do you know where I can find it?
 120 2013-02-04 01:41:54 <Luke-Jr> Google found some info, but nothing like proper docs :/
 121 2013-02-04 01:42:02 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: Don't recall the specific details, but it seemed like that was added in response to a comment or bug or somesuch
 122 2013-02-04 01:42:27 <Luke-Jr> hmm, I'll check out the cpuminer github issues list - any other place that might have had it?
 123 2013-02-04 01:43:19 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: http://www.via.com.tw/en/initiatives/padlock/developercenter.jsp
 124 2013-02-04 01:43:48 <Luke-Jr> ty
 125 2013-02-04 01:45:45 Pasha is now known as Cory
 126 2013-02-04 02:09:09 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: did you ever confirm the VIA code worked?
 127 2013-02-04 02:10:15 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: I think I got a bug report that got it going, but there were always lingering questions
 128 2013-02-04 02:10:23 <jgarzik> would appreciate confirmation one way or the other
 129 2013-02-04 02:11:48 <Luke-Jr> hmm, wonder if there's any cheap hardware with one of them
 130 2013-02-04 02:12:03 <phantomcircuit> it's all cheap
 131 2013-02-04 02:12:14 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: ?
 132 2013-02-04 02:13:17 <phantomcircuit> all the via hardware is cheap
 133 2013-02-04 02:13:49 <Luke-Jr> I don't know of any ;)
 134 2013-02-04 02:14:04 <phantomcircuit> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135322
 135 2013-02-04 02:14:07 <phantomcircuit> case in point
 136 2013-02-04 02:14:32 <Luke-Jr> oh, these are desktop processors? X
 137 2013-02-04 02:14:33 <Luke-Jr> XD*
 138 2013-02-04 02:15:14 <phantomcircuit> they made very good home servers
 139 2013-02-04 02:15:36 <phantomcircuit> pad lock makes doing network crypt possible with such a slow cpu
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 141 2013-02-04 02:23:38 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: hmm, price might be less of a problem than finding somewhere to put it I guess >_<
 142 2013-02-04 02:30:00 <Luke-Jr> oh well, wasting too much time on stupid CPU mining >_<
 143 2013-02-04 02:31:04 Rlc23 has joined
 144 2013-02-04 02:31:34 <Rlc23> any idea why i keep getting wallet.xxxxxxxxx.bak created when running bitcoind?
 145 2013-02-04 02:32:46 <Rlc23> even loading an old (good) version of that wallet
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 148 2013-02-04 02:48:26 <Rlc23> anyone? bueller?
 149 2013-02-04 02:52:35 AtashiCon has quit (Quit: AtashiCon)
 150 2013-02-04 03:08:10 <Rlc23> keep getting 'Renamed wallet.dat to wallet.xxxxxxxx.bak in the startup of a bitcoind
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 152 2013-02-04 03:10:01 <weex> Rlc23: is this in windows?
 153 2013-02-04 03:10:10 <Rlc23> debian
 154 2013-02-04 03:10:21 <weex> could it be a permissions issue?
 155 2013-02-04 03:10:35 <Rlc23> hm, let me check
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 158 2013-02-04 03:15:02 <Rlc23> doesnt look like permissions
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 160 2013-02-04 03:18:33 <Rlc23> any other ideas?
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 168 2013-02-04 03:43:52 <weex> what if you make a backup of your wallet.dat and rename it? a new one should be created so at least you'll know if it was a problem with the wallet.dat file
 169 2013-02-04 03:44:17 <Rlc23> thanks weex, definitely a wallet problem
 170 2013-02-04 03:44:36 <Rlc23> i ran bitcointools wallet repair, got a much cmaller file, but it runs and appears to have all the keys
 171 2013-02-04 03:45:05 <Rlc23> maybe a bad transaction right when bitcoind crashed?
 172 2013-02-04 03:45:26 <Rlc23> never seen this before
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 287 2013-02-04 08:49:41 <ne0futur> bitnumus: try on #bitcoin-otc
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 424 2013-02-04 15:38:52 <Luke-Jr> hmm, my client is stuck
 425 2013-02-04 15:39:30 <helo> mine became stuck because of incorrect system time, but that apparently is to be expected
 426 2013-02-04 15:40:39 <Luke-Jr> http://codepad.org/IZyQ7UK6
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 429 2013-02-04 15:50:25 <kjj> hey Luke, did you notice that the bfg API commands are a jumble of <verb><noun> and <noun><verb> ?
 430 2013-02-04 15:50:56 <Luke-Jr> kjj: I didn't. I try to avoid touching the RPC stuff >_<
 431 2013-02-04 15:51:13 <kjj> hmm
 432 2013-02-04 15:51:49 <kjj> most of the device commands are gpu/cpu/pga + verb, while most of the pool commands are verb + pool
 433 2013-02-04 15:51:53 <Luke-Jr> that be troll territory lol
 434 2013-02-04 15:52:17 <Luke-Jr> kjj: when/if I end up redoing parts of the RPC, I'll likely remove the GPU/CPU/PGA distinction altogether
 435 2013-02-04 15:52:22 <Luke-Jr> it's useless and makes for headaches
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 437 2013-02-04 15:55:20 jdnavarro has joined
 438 2013-02-04 15:55:53 <kjj> did you buy an avalon?
 439 2013-02-04 15:55:55 m0mchil has joined
 440 2013-02-04 15:57:04 <Luke-Jr> kjj: no
 441 2013-02-04 15:57:12 tonikt has joined
 442 2013-02-04 15:57:23 <Luke-Jr> kjj: Avalon is the only ASIC vendor who was unwilling to provide me with a device
 443 2013-02-04 15:57:40 <Luke-Jr> although they did donate one to the Foundation, which in theory I'd expect I should be able to use for development
 444 2013-02-04 15:58:17 <kjj> I'm hoping they can be converted to USB
 445 2013-02-04 15:59:05 <Luke-Jr> I believe so
 446 2013-02-04 15:59:18 <Luke-Jr> Jeff said it looks like serial, but his dmesg showed a serial-to-USB convertor
 447 2013-02-04 16:00:19 <kjj> I didn't count the wires on the ribbon cables, but it looked too wide for serial to me
 448 2013-02-04 16:01:34 <abracadabra> what cgminer version comes with avalon?
 449 2013-02-04 16:01:47 <abracadabra> oh meh.. n/m found it
 450 2013-02-04 16:04:54 <Luke-Jr> abracadabra: 2.10.4, but apparently modified a lot
 451 2013-02-04 16:05:09 <Luke-Jr> abracadabra: the GBT seems to be more broken than normally
 452 2013-02-04 16:05:13 <Guest55983> so asics are reality now, are they?
 453 2013-02-04 16:05:15 teenidle has joined
 454 2013-02-04 16:07:18 <helo> have been for ~33 years now :)
 455 2013-02-04 16:09:03 <moore_> Luke-Jr, you wort the common patched to block SD right?
 456 2013-02-04 16:10:02 <Guest55983> dedicated bitcoin asic miners
 457 2013-02-04 16:10:15 <moore_> I have realized that my attack against SD can be leveraged in to a attack on bitpay
 458 2013-02-04 16:11:17 <moore_> It can be used thou when ever there are differences in which TX are considered valid by miners
 459 2013-02-04 16:12:16 <moore_> and Eliel pointed out that there are other asymmetries like accepting large blocks with small fees
 460 2013-02-04 16:13:15 <Luke-Jr> moore_: I think you are wrong.
 461 2013-02-04 16:13:18 <moore_> it is interesting because where it may not be considered a attack against bit coin it is a attack against common use ( if you considere bitpay common )
 462 2013-02-04 16:13:21 <moore_> really?
 463 2013-02-04 16:13:22 <moore_> why
 464 2013-02-04 16:13:43 <Luke-Jr> moore_: I don't think you can hurt BitPay.
 465 2013-02-04 16:14:04 <moore_> bitpay uses uncomited tx
 466 2013-02-04 16:14:11 <Eliel> Luke-Jr: you can hurt some bitpay customers... but only those who have chosen to accept unconfirmed txs.
 467 2013-02-04 16:14:29 <Luke-Jr> moore_: no, they don't.
 468 2013-02-04 16:14:37 <Eliel> as far as I understand it, Bitpay will pass those losses to customers.
 469 2013-02-04 16:14:40 <Luke-Jr> Eliel: sure, known unsafe practices are unsafe
 470 2013-02-04 16:14:41 <Luke-Jr> that's obvious
 471 2013-02-04 16:14:51 <moore_> Their demo videos show the use of uncomited tx
 472 2013-02-04 16:14:56 <teenidle> hello
 473 2013-02-04 16:15:32 <moore_> well bitpay's promo videos push it as safe
 474 2013-02-04 16:16:01 <Luke-Jr> then email Tony
 475 2013-02-04 16:16:08 <moore_> https://bitpay.com/bitcoin-mobile-checkout
 476 2013-02-04 16:16:10 <moore_> k
 477 2013-02-04 16:16:41 <Luke-Jr> moore_: note the video looks like it's for retail like a restaurant
 478 2013-02-04 16:16:47 <moore_> ya
 479 2013-02-04 16:17:10 <Luke-Jr> moore_: so double spending in that case is like someone giving you a bad check
 480 2013-02-04 16:17:13 <moore_> do you have a email for him
 481 2013-02-04 16:17:22 <Luke-Jr> I'm sure it's on the site..
 482 2013-02-04 16:17:28 <moore_> I just see info
 483 2013-02-04 16:17:33 <Luke-Jr> that should work
 484 2013-02-04 16:19:06 <moore_> Luke-Jr, if miners published there rules for tx accptance it would be much easer to avoid this attack
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 490 2013-02-04 16:23:40 <Luke-Jr> moore_: easier to arrange a deal with merchant(s) to accept transactions to them
 491 2013-02-04 16:24:32 <moore_> you mean that bitpay or who ever should have some deal with miners to make sure there tx get in?
 492 2013-02-04 16:25:50 <amiller> i've read contradictory things about bitpay's policy, whether or not they wait 6 blocks before considering themselves contractually bound to pay out
 493 2013-02-04 16:26:41 <moore_> what about in the chained case, where a customer spends a output of a unconfirmed tx that is not going to be accepted? I suppose most clinets don't let you spend unconfermed tx so you could just reject them
 494 2013-02-04 16:26:45 <moore_> as valid
 495 2013-02-04 16:27:47 <Luke-Jr> moore_: yes
 496 2013-02-04 16:27:57 <jgarzik> amiller: Cannot speak for BitPay, but in general... it's product based
 497 2013-02-04 16:27:59 WolfAlex has joined
 498 2013-02-04 16:28:04 <Luke-Jr> amiller: I'd expect they show the merchants how confirmed it is
 499 2013-02-04 16:28:11 <amiller> "HIGH speed confirmations typically take 5-10 seconds, and can be used for digital goods or low-risk items.  LOW speed confirmations take about 1 hour, and should be used for high-value items." is supposedly a quote from bitpay's options
 500 2013-02-04 16:28:16 <jgarzik> amiller: You can accept zero-conf, if the merchant can cancel a purchase before shipping a physical product
 501 2013-02-04 16:28:19 jdnavarro has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 502 2013-02-04 16:28:36 <amiller> which suggests that bitpay would not actually pay out in case of a double spend
 503 2013-02-04 16:28:48 <Luke-Jr> amiller: of course they wouldn't
 504 2013-02-04 16:28:57 <jgarzik> ie. "payment accepted!"  then the merchant checks before shipment, which happens hours or days later.
 505 2013-02-04 16:29:36 <jgarzik> no idea if that's how BitPay does it, but it would make sense.
 506 2013-02-04 16:29:40 <jgarzik> best user experience
 507 2013-02-04 16:29:44 <Luke-Jr> ^
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 510 2013-02-04 16:30:56 <Luke-Jr> wtf
 511 2013-02-04 16:31:05 <Luke-Jr> it seems a large chunk of my blk0001.dat has just nulled out
 512 2013-02-04 16:34:18 <kjj> better that than your wallet.dat
 513 2013-02-04 16:35:08 <Luke-Jr> sure, but still disturbing
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 523 2013-02-04 16:47:31 <Luke-Jr> can anyone seed blk0001?
 524 2013-02-04 16:48:08 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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 526 2013-02-04 16:51:22 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 527 2013-02-04 16:53:32 <kinlo> you probably want a clean version?
 528 2013-02-04 16:53:50 <Luke-Jr> kinlo: it won't seed unless it is, yes :P
 529 2013-02-04 16:54:03 <kinlo> why not?
 530 2013-02-04 16:54:04 <Luke-Jr> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=94881.0 <-- link to torrent file
 531 2013-02-04 16:54:09 <Luke-Jr> because torrents are fixed data
 532 2013-02-04 16:54:30 b4epoche has joined
 533 2013-02-04 16:54:54 <kinlo> with clean I mean the version one would download now, excluding the orphans stuff
 534 2013-02-04 16:55:34 <kinlo> oh
 535 2013-02-04 16:55:43 <kinlo> so you mean if we want to seed YOUR version :)
 536 2013-02-04 16:55:47 da2ce7 has joined
 537 2013-02-04 16:55:53 <Luke-Jr> kinlo: clean is clean ;)
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 540 2013-02-04 16:57:50 <jgarzik> BTC Guild switched to pre-0.8, for at least a few of its machines
 541 2013-02-04 16:57:59 <jgarzik> I wonder when we will lock in v2 blocks?
 542 2013-02-04 16:58:14 <kinlo> jgarzik: it's still a long time before that happens
 543 2013-02-04 16:58:33 <kinlo> we're barely at 50%
 544 2013-02-04 16:58:55 <kinlo> blockorigin tracks the blocks, so you can easily see that several major pools still need to switch
 545 2013-02-04 16:58:57 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: despite the warnings that 0.8 shouldn't be used for mining yet? :P
 546 2013-02-04 16:59:18 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: What specific bugs/problems remain outstanding?
 547 2013-02-04 16:59:33 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: as recently as 2 weeks ago, both slush's Stratum server and my Eloipool both made invalid v2 blocks in some cases :P
 548 2013-02-04 16:59:41 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: lack of testing only, I think
 549 2013-02-04 16:59:44 moarrrr has joined
 550 2013-02-04 16:59:55 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: invalid in what way?
 551 2013-02-04 17:00:28 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: in slush's case, he wasn't encoding the height as a signed number; in my case, I was creating longpoll merkleroots with the height of the *current* block
 552 2013-02-04 17:01:02 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: do you have a clean blk0001 by any chance?
 553 2013-02-04 17:01:21 jdnavarro has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 554 2013-02-04 17:03:39 <kinlo> does 0.7 enforce the rules for v2 blocks?   ie will it reject v2 blocks without valid blocknum in the generation hash?
 555 2013-02-04 17:04:00 <Luke-Jr> kinlo: after something like 98% adoption
 556 2013-02-04 17:04:15 <Luke-Jr> IIRC 950 of past 1000 blocks
 557 2013-02-04 17:04:22 <kinlo> it's 95% afaik
 558 2013-02-04 17:04:27 <kinlo> so basicly, not yet
 559 2013-02-04 17:04:45 <kinlo> it could have enforced the v2 rules already, and accept any v1 block
 560 2013-02-04 17:04:52 da2ce7_d has joined
 561 2013-02-04 17:04:54 <kjj> I thought that it enforced v2 rules on blocks claiming to be v2, but still accepted v1 blocks until the 95% mark hits
 562 2013-02-04 17:04:57 <kinlo> but then again, one might exploit that
 563 2013-02-04 17:04:58 <Luke-Jr> kinlo: not without risk of orphaning
 564 2013-02-04 17:05:06 <Luke-Jr> kjj: yes and no
 565 2013-02-04 17:05:06 <kinlo> indeed
 566 2013-02-04 17:05:13 <kinlo> makes sense not to enforce the rules.
 567 2013-02-04 17:05:20 gjs278 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 568 2013-02-04 17:05:38 <Luke-Jr> 750/1000 starts rejecting wrong-v2 blocks
 569 2013-02-04 17:05:43 <kjj> ahh
 570 2013-02-04 17:05:43 <Luke-Jr> 950/1000 starts rejecting v1 blocks
 571 2013-02-04 17:05:54 <kinlo> 2 pools of the top 5 are not even began testing with v2 blocks
 572 2013-02-04 17:06:09 <kinlo> and the top 7 all have more then 5%
 573 2013-02-04 17:06:22 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 574 2013-02-04 17:06:34 <kinlo> so it will still take some time
 575 2013-02-04 17:07:24 <Luke-Jr> @ whoever seeded, thanks
 576 2013-02-04 17:08:19 tsche has quit ()
 577 2013-02-04 17:08:30 <kinlo> it would make sense to create a new torrent for file 1 and 2
 578 2013-02-04 17:09:21 <Luke-Jr> kinlo: it would
 579 2013-02-04 17:09:50 <kinlo> on the other hand, isn't 0.8 doing everything with much smaller files?
 580 2013-02-04 17:10:48 TD has joined
 581 2013-02-04 17:12:08 <TD> good day
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 585 2013-02-04 17:16:02 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: RE blk0001... torrent it
 586 2013-02-04 17:16:11 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117982.0
 587 2013-02-04 17:16:14 eckey has joined
 588 2013-02-04 17:16:49 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: that's not blk0001 :P
 589 2013-02-04 17:17:04 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: and yes, I was using a torrent:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=94881.0
 590 2013-02-04 17:17:21 <jgarzik> no, but you can recreate it quickly
 591 2013-02-04 17:17:28 <muhoo> TD: thanks for the bloom filtering, 0.7-SNAPSHOT is a lot faster now
 592 2013-02-04 17:17:43 da2ce7_d has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 593 2013-02-04 17:18:05 <muhoo> TD: any idea what the status of fees are in bitcoinj?
 594 2013-02-04 17:18:19 <TD> you're welcome. who are you, might i ask?
 595 2013-02-04 17:18:33 HM2 has joined
 596 2013-02-04 17:18:56 <muhoo> TD: nobody in particular :-) i'm doing a bitcoin store in my spare time, using bitcoinj, to run the server on a cheap 500MB RAM VPS
 597 2013-02-04 17:19:03 <TD> fees can be set explicitly, but solving them according to the protocol rules is unimplemented. i keep wanting to do it and then andreas convinces me it's not the biggest UX problem with the android wallet right now
 598 2013-02-04 17:19:11 <TD> ah ok. i thought you might be somebody i talked to before
 599 2013-02-04 17:19:56 <TD> muhoo: i'd strongly recommend to run a full node if you're actually selling stuff
 600 2013-02-04 17:20:17 <TD> muhoo: but if you really can't afford that,  make sure you at least are waiting for confirmations
 601 2013-02-04 17:20:27 <muhoo> can't. not enough RAM. also, i need to be able to watch raw transactions. we're just selling music, no confirmations required
 602 2013-02-04 17:20:58 <muhoo> nobody's going to want to wait a half hour to get their download.
 603 2013-02-04 17:21:03 gjs278 has joined
 604 2013-02-04 17:21:04 <TD> mmm. RAM is cheap though. i guess if you're on a strict budget the cost of running a node can be an issue.
 605 2013-02-04 17:21:14 <TD> but i suppose if you get ripped off for some music it's no big deal
 606 2013-02-04 17:21:22 <TD> ok, well, good to hear you find it useful at least
 607 2013-02-04 17:21:22 <muhoo> that was the thinking.
 608 2013-02-04 17:21:29 tsche has joined
 609 2013-02-04 17:21:32 <TD> let me know if there's some features you want (beyond fees. i already know about them)
 610 2013-02-04 17:22:00 <muhoo> the algorithm for fees in bitcoind looks pretty simple. probably wouldn't be that hard to just transliterate it to java
 611 2013-02-04 17:22:06 <TD> btw do you use watching wallets at all? bitcoinj supports them but it's not really documented.
 612 2013-02-04 17:22:20 <TD> sure. but it's also about making sure it's properly tested and things like that.
 613 2013-02-04 17:22:28 <muhoo> PeerGroup.addWallet() ?
 614 2013-02-04 17:22:28 <TD> it's not hard. it's just not floated to the top of the todo list yet, as i'm still quite mobile focused.
 615 2013-02-04 17:22:45 <TD> muhoo: no, i mean, does your store have only public keys on it? you can keep the wallet with private keys on your own laptop or whatever
 616 2013-02-04 17:22:53 <TD> it's more secure that way, a web server compromise can't steal the money collected
 617 2013-02-04 17:23:24 <muhoo> the  plan is to have one wallet per musician on the server, and as soon as payments come in, get them the hell off the server and send them to an address on file for the musician
 618 2013-02-04 17:23:44 <muhoo> so that there are no coins sitting in live wallets on the server for very long
 619 2013-02-04 17:23:50 <CodeShark> don't even have them come to the server in the first place
 620 2013-02-04 17:24:06 <CodeShark> just watch for transactions - but don't hold any private keys on the server
 621 2013-02-04 17:24:15 <muhoo> well, we want to take a cut. i guess could do that with raw transactions.
 622 2013-02-04 17:24:25 <CodeShark> there's absolutely no good reason for keeping private keys on the web server
 623 2013-02-04 17:25:28 <CodeShark> have musicians pregenerate a bunch of addresses and give you a list
 624 2013-02-04 17:25:35 <muhoo> interesting. watch-only wallet makes sense.
 625 2013-02-04 17:25:43 <muhoo> these guys aren't bitcoin savvy.
 626 2013-02-04 17:25:55 <muhoo> i need to make it totallly stoned-ass-musician-proof
 627 2013-02-04 17:26:31 <muhoo> these guys will take whatever they make and go spend it on silk road, no doubt :-)
 628 2013-02-04 17:27:47 <eckey> ping Mike Hearn
 629 2013-02-04 17:27:55 <TD> muhoo: hah. well, it's up to you. if you want to be automatically forwarding money direct from the web server then yeah it's an issue. if you have a second system that can be made more locked down than your web server (very likely) you can write a program that does the forwarding/cut taking for you
 630 2013-02-04 17:28:21 <muhoo> TD: that is pretty much what i've got, yes.
 631 2013-02-04 17:28:27 <HM2> if your web app can control your wallet then your wallet is only as secure as your web app
 632 2013-02-04 17:29:15 <TD> eckey: pong
 633 2013-02-04 17:29:50 <muhoo> HM2: true, but there are many wallets. "my" wallet is not on a web server. "a" wallet is, and it just forwards coins, essentially.
 634 2013-02-04 17:30:24 <muhoo> but i'll look into other ways to do it, thanks for the suggestions all.
 635 2013-02-04 17:30:52 <muhoo> heirarchal wallets BIP would make this a lot easier
 636 2013-02-04 17:31:11 <CodeShark> indeed it would
 637 2013-02-04 17:31:17 <CodeShark> I think I'm gonna just start implementing that3
 638 2013-02-04 17:31:28 <CodeShark> no more waiting around for the cryptographers :p
 639 2013-02-04 17:31:43 <HM2> heirarchical wallets?
 640 2013-02-04 17:31:49 <CodeShark> BIP32
 641 2013-02-04 17:32:02 <HM2> hi-er-arch-ic-al
 642 2013-02-04 17:32:06 <HM2> i hate that word
 643 2013-02-04 17:32:08 * muhoo can't spell, sorry
 644 2013-02-04 17:32:16 <HM2> no i can't either :P
 645 2013-02-04 17:32:43 <Luke-Jr> CodeShark: I'm pretty sure sipa is going to do that..
 646 2013-02-04 17:33:12 <CodeShark> sipa is waiting on hal
 647 2013-02-04 17:33:34 asuk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 648 2013-02-04 17:33:40 <CodeShark> and he's on vacation now
 649 2013-02-04 17:33:43 <CodeShark> sipa, that is
 650 2013-02-04 17:33:56 <MC1984> i like how there are more new people talking about dev stuff
 651 2013-02-04 17:34:03 <CodeShark> and I NEED a deterministc wallet
 652 2013-02-04 17:34:03 <CodeShark> ASAP
 653 2013-02-04 17:34:04 <CodeShark> like, yesterday
 654 2013-02-04 17:34:06 <TD> muhoo: bear in mind that the current code doesn't handle multiple wallets very well. you can attach new wallets, but if you disconnect and reconnect them later, they won't automatically re-scan the right parts of the chain
 655 2013-02-04 17:34:16 <TD> muhoo: so i'm not sure 1-wallet-per-artist is a good idea as they all need to be in RAM at once.
 656 2013-02-04 17:34:32 <HM2> that BIP looks awesome
 657 2013-02-04 17:34:43 <kjj> CodeShark: it is easy enough to make your own deterministic wallet
 658 2013-02-04 17:34:44 <muhoo> TD: i noticed that, and was worried about it.
 659 2013-02-04 17:34:45 <HM2> CodeShark: is the crypto side of it similar to key splitting used in vanitygen?
 660 2013-02-04 17:34:46 <TD> muhoo: a design where you create a new key for each transaction in a single wallet and then record which artist it was for, seems to make more sense to me
 661 2013-02-04 17:34:53 <CodeShark> kjj: that's exactly the idea
 662 2013-02-04 17:34:54 <TD> muhoo: there's no real reason for every artist to have a wallet, imho.
 663 2013-02-04 17:35:23 <kjj> but be sure to read up on how to do it right.  if you do it poorly, you'll leak all of your private info
 664 2013-02-04 17:35:54 <CodeShark> I don't set out to do things to do them poorly :)
 665 2013-02-04 17:35:54 <muhoo> TD: good point. i can keep the mapping of addresses-to-artist in a database, which i was going to have to do anyway, to keep track of which songs were sold (so artists can see their sales history)
 666 2013-02-04 17:35:55 <TD> yeah. the documentation for how to use bitcoinj in the merchant case isn't very good today. there was a guy (gary rowe) who wanted to do MultiBit Merchant and provide a merchant server to handle all this, but i never heard anything back
 667 2013-02-04 17:36:16 <TD> muhoo: yeah. eventually you may run out of RAM anyway because the wallet keeps all spent transactions too, but there's no real reason for that. it can be fixed.
 668 2013-02-04 17:36:35 <CodeShark> HM2, I haven't really used vanitygen much...but the same idea could be applied
 669 2013-02-04 17:36:38 <TD> muhoo: just be aware that bitcoinj is designed for mobile phones/individual users and hasn't really been battle-tested for the merchant server case. you'll find things that need fixing.
 670 2013-02-04 17:36:46 <muhoo> i noticed that too :-) a Wallet.toString() can get very long
 671 2013-02-04 17:37:07 <TD> it can, yes. i'll probably fix that soon. there isn't a strong justification to keep spent transactions around except for historical interest.
 672 2013-02-04 17:37:13 <CodeShark> we need a wallet that is merchant-facing...too much emphasis on mobile and end-user wallets...not enough on good, solid merchant solutions :)
 673 2013-02-04 17:37:16 <muhoo> fair enough. i don't mind being on the bleeding edge here.
 674 2013-02-04 17:37:19 <TD> cool
 675 2013-02-04 17:37:23 <TD> might you contribute patches?
 676 2013-02-04 17:37:29 <Luke-Jr> CodeShark: BitPay
 677 2013-02-04 17:37:33 <CodeShark> bah
 678 2013-02-04 17:37:36 <HM2> hmmm
 679 2013-02-04 17:37:39 <muhoo> TD: i'd be happy to, if the opportunity arises
 680 2013-02-04 17:37:43 <TD> superb
 681 2013-02-04 17:38:08 <muhoo> IIRC there's a CA involved, i shoudl get up on that
 682 2013-02-04 17:38:55 <TD> CA involved?
 683 2013-02-04 17:39:51 <HM2> CodeShark: i'm looking at BIP32....it seems to me that child keys are just derived by salting and hashing parent keys?
 684 2013-02-04 17:39:57 <muhoo> contributor agreement?
 685 2013-02-04 17:40:04 <CodeShark> HM2: yes
 686 2013-02-04 17:40:27 <HM2> How is that helpful?
 687 2013-02-04 17:40:52 <muhoo> TD: if you require a signed agreement to accept patches, i should get that squared away at some point
 688 2013-02-04 17:41:13 <TD> ah, yes, CLA. you can just sign it electronically.
 689 2013-02-04 17:41:20 <TD> it's easy
 690 2013-02-04 17:41:55 <CodeShark> you also multiply by some k, HM2
 691 2013-02-04 17:42:35 <HM2> oh i see
 692 2013-02-04 17:42:40 <eckey> TD: using bitcoinj, is there a way to specify a block or timestamp and have PeerGroup go back and catch up from that point?  Would be useful when reconstructing a wallet.
 693 2013-02-04 17:43:08 <eckey> rerun the transactions
 694 2013-02-04 17:43:17 <HM2> K[n] i= I[L] * K[par]
 695 2013-02-04 17:43:42 <HM2> so it is similar to the vanitygen keysplitting you told me about before, i believe
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 697 2013-02-04 17:43:56 <HM2> just using a hash to produce a deterministic value
 698 2013-02-04 17:44:22 <TD> eckey: wallet.clearTransactions(0); and then delete the block chain file.
 699 2013-02-04 17:44:30 <TD> you can't currently do partial chain re-fetches
 700 2013-02-04 17:44:39 <TD> it's not hard to implement. just didn't get to the top of the todo list yet.
 701 2013-02-04 17:46:58 <HM2> hmm
 702 2013-02-04 17:47:23 <muhoo> at least for testing purposes, it'd make life easier.
 703 2013-02-04 17:47:23 <eckey> TD: and rerun from genesis?
 704 2013-02-04 17:47:31 <TD> yes
 705 2013-02-04 17:47:40 <TD> it'll use getheaders to catch up to the wallet birthday pretty fast though
 706 2013-02-04 17:48:14 <HM2> CodeShark: I'm guessing I[L] in that math cannot be 1 or Kn = Kpar
 707 2013-02-04 17:48:18 <muhoo> the new bloom filter code seems to speed it up dramatically
 708 2013-02-04 17:48:33 <TD> are you guys on the bitcoinj mailing list?
 709 2013-02-04 17:48:44 <eckey> pointer?
 710 2013-02-04 17:48:50 <eckey> nevermind
 711 2013-02-04 17:50:15 <TD> doing partial chain refetches for the single wallet case is pretty easy.
 712 2013-02-04 17:50:43 <muhoo> this is a "hello world" running bitcoinj: http://spazcoin.bamfic.com
 713 2013-02-04 17:51:00 <TD> doing it online when you have multiple wallets attached is a bit less easy, the current code more or less assumes it's at one "place" in the sync process. so some refactoring is required to be syncing/rewinding different wallets simultaneously. i suspect most apps don't need multiple wallets at once, so it's not high up my list.
 714 2013-02-04 17:51:20 <TD> muhoo: oh, cool, that's a raw feed of every tx being broadcast?
 715 2013-02-04 17:51:25 <muhoo> yep
 716 2013-02-04 17:51:43 <TD> muhoo: bonus points for adding the transactions to an html list and updating the number of seen peers in place
 717 2013-02-04 17:51:46 <TD> that'd be cool
 718 2013-02-04 17:52:19 <muhoo> i'll need to do that in memory. once it's seen by 4 peers, i'll ship the download to the customer
 719 2013-02-04 17:52:30 <muhoo> this was a test of that functionality
 720 2013-02-04 17:52:41 <TD> sure
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 722 2013-02-04 17:52:56 <muhoo> plus all the ajax plumbing.
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 724 2013-02-04 17:53:30 * Luke-Jr kicks his stuck node
 725 2013-02-04 17:53:51 * CodeShark hands Luke-Jr a sledgehammer
 726 2013-02-04 17:54:06 <muhoo> ok, well now i'm inspired to get off my slacker ass and move this thing forward a bit
 727 2013-02-04 17:55:24 <HM2> CodeShark: i think i get that hierarchical stuff.
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 729 2013-02-04 17:56:09 <TD> coo
 730 2013-02-04 17:56:10 <TD> cool
 731 2013-02-04 17:56:26 <TD> muhoo: could you do me a favor and take notes on what you find easy/hard/annoying/unintuitive/etc? API user case studies are hard to come by.
 732 2013-02-04 17:56:31 rdponticelli has joined
 733 2013-02-04 17:56:35 <TD> then we can turn your notes into issues on the tracker and work through them
 734 2013-02-04 17:57:41 <muhoo> ok, will do. you've already mentioned the main things i've already run up against: ram-bloat with wallet storing everything its seen, ability to replay the blockchain, etc
 735 2013-02-04 17:58:17 <TD> yeah
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 737 2013-02-04 17:58:41 <TD> we can just add some methods to control the size of the spent pool. you probably don't need it.
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 739 2013-02-04 17:59:21 <muhoo> one of the things that's interestign to me as a store, is there's going to be some duplication of data between what's in the wallet and what i need to store in the db anyway (sales history)
 740 2013-02-04 18:00:03 <TD> yeah. over time i want to find a good refactoring of the wallet so it can be saved to different kinds of database, rather than a file.
 741 2013-02-04 18:00:16 <muhoo> right now i'm serializing it and saving it as a blob.
 742 2013-02-04 18:00:23 <TD> i always wanted to let you attach data to arbitrary objects and have it be persisted during serialization.
 743 2013-02-04 18:00:28 <TD> muhoo: protobuf serialization i hope!
 744 2013-02-04 18:00:34 <muhoo> so one other thign would be nice is to have the auto-save code more general and not be tied to a File
 745 2013-02-04 18:00:37 <TD> yeah
 746 2013-02-04 18:00:38 <TD> i know
 747 2013-02-04 18:00:52 <muhoo> yes, protobuf.
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 749 2013-02-04 18:01:01 <TD> for now though, i'm unfortunately still going to be focusing on mobile/desktop wallets, so these sorts of features won't happen unless somebody contributes them.
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 751 2013-02-04 18:01:20 <TD> on the grounds that if i try to satisfy every use case simultaneously it'll end up satisfying none of them well
 752 2013-02-04 18:01:36 <muhoo> understandable.
 753 2013-02-04 18:01:41 <CodeShark> merchant wallets should be an entirely different app than mobile wallets
 754 2013-02-04 18:01:57 <CodeShark> they have two very different sets of requirements
 755 2013-02-04 18:02:00 <muhoo> hmm.
 756 2013-02-04 18:02:08 <TD> well, obviously they are different apps. it's about the features they demand of the underlying API.
 757 2013-02-04 18:02:16 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: wrt the conversation in #bitcoin or wherever altcoins was coming up: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/User:Gmaxwell/alt_ideas
 758 2013-02-04 18:03:02 <muhoo> if needed, i suppose there could be separate wallet classes with a common interface, etc.
 759 2013-02-04 18:03:17 <muhoo> one for android wallets, one for merchant, etc,
 760 2013-02-04 18:03:40 <TD> yeah, Wallet is a huge class though. the issue is really one of "save a consistent snapshot" vs "submit each change to a database layer in an easy SQLable form"
 761 2013-02-04 18:04:03 <TD> the current code is only capable of the first. you can find out the wallet changed but there's no packaging up of the changes in a form that's good to put into an UPDATE statement.
 762 2013-02-04 18:04:12 <muhoo> i wasn't going to try to break up the wallet into sql table fields or anythign crazy like that.
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 764 2013-02-04 18:04:40 <TD> well, i'm thinking about scalability. SatoshiDice had to make pretty big changes to allow the wallet to be in a database
 765 2013-02-04 18:04:56 <TD> so now they're forked quite badly and fireduck seems uninterested in rebasing, so he isn't getting bugfixes and new features :(
 766 2013-02-04 18:05:02 <muhoo> oh, do they? i didn't know their implementation.
 767 2013-02-04 18:05:05 <TD> yeah
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 769 2013-02-04 18:05:12 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: you might find the 'chain folding' one there interesting, as I don't think I'd talked about that much in IRC. (Amiller may have had the same idea, but I wasn't completely clear on it until coming up with it myself. ... after doing so I realized he might have been saying the same thing)
 770 2013-02-04 18:05:17 <TD> it's open source actually. but not mergable.
 771 2013-02-04 18:05:25 <muhoo> :-(
 772 2013-02-04 18:06:19 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: it would be neat to start a (general, not user-specific) wiki page listing different ideas and classifying them as no-fork, soft-fork, hard-fork, altcoin, etc
 773 2013-02-04 18:07:25 <amiller> a half-formed ideas list maybe...
 774 2013-02-04 18:07:43 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: yea, well I'm just throwing it on a userpage so I don't forget them (again). Feel free to mine it.  What would be neat to do is to create a summary page for each idea, a short summary, a long argument with links to discussions about it and similar ideas.. then have a table that lists all of them and transcludes the summary pages for their summaries (<includonly>)
 775 2013-02-04 18:08:13 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: sounds good ;)
 776 2013-02-04 18:08:44 <muhoo> TD: in my case, i'm ok with doing my transaction tracking and sales tracking outside of the wallet
 777 2013-02-04 18:09:15 <TD> ok
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 779 2013-02-04 18:09:27 <Luke-Jr> yay, Bitcoin-Qt recovered!
 780 2013-02-04 18:09:46 <muhoo> but i see how it could evolve into essentially a wallet of its own
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 783 2013-02-04 18:12:06 <muhoo> i guess i'll jump off that bridge when i come to it. thanks, got to run for a while. very much appreciate the discussion.
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 786 2013-02-04 18:15:30 <TD> later
 787 2013-02-04 18:16:30 <Pucilowski> I have some transactions (with fee that meet bitcoin fee guidelines) that have a network propagation of 50% (according to blockchain.info) whereas usually blockchain.info reports numbers as high as 300%, somehow
 788 2013-02-04 18:16:59 <Pucilowski> anyway, I believe this is why they are taking unusually long to confirm, any ideas how I could re-broadcast it and have nodes relay it again?
 789 2013-02-04 18:17:54 <MC1984> how can that site measure propagation?
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 792 2013-02-04 18:21:19 <gmaxwell> amiller: dunno if you saw before but I did (vaguely) come up with a way to turn POW into clock ticking for timelock encryption.
 793 2013-02-04 18:21:27 <gmaxwell> (I just added it to the page now)
 794 2013-02-04 18:22:05 <Pucilowski> MC1984: its connected to a lot of nodes, every time its relayed a transaction it logs the ip and it works with that
 795 2013-02-04 18:22:16 <Pucilowski> an estimate at best
 796 2013-02-04 18:22:38 <MC1984> oh
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 799 2013-02-04 18:27:38 <Pucilowski> deepbit is the only larger pool that relayed it, hopefully they get a block soon
 800 2013-02-04 18:32:31 <eckey> TD: speaking of Wallet, if one were to extend it for the purpose of adding additional data, would that break serialization?
 801 2013-02-04 18:33:07 <eckey> Wallet class
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 820 2013-02-04 19:20:49 <curious> is there a log of #bitcoin-dev?  thx
 821 2013-02-04 19:21:51 <MC1984> topic#
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 823 2013-02-04 19:31:26 <kjj> so, one time, I made a database table too small, and ended up with a bunch of addresses that were missing the last 2 letters
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 825 2013-02-04 19:32:37 <kjj> I just now got around to writing a script to brute force the missing letters
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 827 2013-02-04 19:33:03 <HM2> it's amazing how recent some of these EC protocols have been revised/proposed
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 829 2013-02-04 19:33:23 <kjj> I'm just curious if there is a clever way to reconstruct damaged addresses
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 838 2013-02-04 19:48:20 <HM2> djj : the last 4 bytes of the 25 byte public key is just a checksum
 839 2013-02-04 19:48:49 <HM2> that corresponds to more than 5 characters
 840 2013-02-04 19:49:15 <HM2> sorry kjj
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 843 2013-02-04 19:51:31 <HM2> kjj: https://en.bitcoin.it/w/images/en/9/9b/PubKeyToAddr.png
 844 2013-02-04 19:51:33 <kjj> I'm aware of the structure, I use it to validate that I've found the correct missing letters
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 846 2013-02-04 19:52:15 <HM2> oh right, you've done it already then
 847 2013-02-04 19:53:01 <kjj> I know I could have just pulled my pubkeys and recreate the addresses that way.  I just wanted to see if I could fix addresses with a few missing letters on the end
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 849 2013-02-04 19:55:23 <kjj> brute force is plenty easy, and quick if you are only missing 1 or 2 letters.  after that, it starts getting bad
 850 2013-02-04 19:56:07 <HM2> potentially though there could be a collision
 851 2013-02-04 19:56:09 <kjj> hmm.  I wonder how much of my time is spent in bcmul()
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 853 2013-02-04 19:57:01 <HM2> not that it would make a difference
 854 2013-02-04 19:57:19 <HM2> you don't need to bruteforce though
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 858 2013-02-04 19:57:28 <kjj> very slim chance.  the 32 bit checksum gives a 1 in 4 billion chance per try.  that is less than 1% when replacing 4 letters, 15% at 5 letters (take too long to brute force anyway)
 859 2013-02-04 19:58:01 <kjj> and at 6 letters, you'd get 8 false positives per correct address
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 863 2013-02-04 19:58:23 <kjj> (on average)
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 865 2013-02-04 20:00:12 <kjj> my brute forcer is just a set of loops, each run through it tacks on a different combination of letters, then runs the new string through the decoder (which iterates bcmul) to reconstruct the pubkey and check
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 867 2013-02-04 20:01:09 <kjj> I bet I could save a lot of time by just adding the original decode to the last decode.
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 873 2013-02-04 20:04:27 <HM2> isn't base58 fun
 874 2013-02-04 20:05:33 <HM2> actually you probably do need to bruteforce it
 875 2013-02-04 20:06:10 <kjj> yeah, I can't see any way to avoid that part yet.  but I can make my brute force more efficient
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 878 2013-02-04 20:08:25 <HM2> kjj, i think you can decode the address you have as a bigint and then multiply by 3364
 879 2013-02-04 20:08:33 <HM2> then you only have to do an addition for each combination
 880 2013-02-04 20:09:05 <kjj> base58 is placeless
 881 2013-02-04 20:09:21 <gmaxwell> placeless?!@#!
 882 2013-02-04 20:09:36 <kjj> as in AB means "A * B", not "A*58+B"
 883 2013-02-04 20:09:58 <HM2> eh
 884 2013-02-04 20:10:01 <HM2> how
 885 2013-02-04 20:10:03 <moarrr> kjj? really?
 886 2013-02-04 20:10:06 <gmaxwell> 0_o
 887 2013-02-04 20:10:29 <kjj> no, shit.  I might still be drunk
 888 2013-02-04 20:10:43 <gmaxwell> Sounds like a likely hypothesis.
 889 2013-02-04 20:10:53 <HM2> what i mean is if you pad with "00" then you only need to do one multiplication (x 3364) then you can just count up 3364
 890 2013-02-04 20:11:04 <moarrr> yeh, what hes saying doesnt make sense if base58 is a binary representation of a number
 891 2013-02-04 20:11:06 <HM2> I think?
 892 2013-02-04 20:11:19 veralibertas has joined
 893 2013-02-04 20:11:52 <jgarzik> on cbitcoin...   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=123488.msg1503373#msg1503373
 894 2013-02-04 20:12:00 <jgarzik> > Do you really intend to convert the newly allocated pointer to an integer and then return it as a boolean?
 895 2013-02-04 20:12:07 <jgarzik> Yes, believe it or not. I was in two minds as to whether or not this is a good idea or not, but for the dependencies I've used uint64_t instead of void * so that it is friendly with integer identifiers
 896 2013-02-04 20:12:09 veralibertas has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 897 2013-02-04 20:12:10 <jgarzik> *facepalm*
 898 2013-02-04 20:14:26 <HM2> jgarzik: he looks about 15
 899 2013-02-04 20:14:34 <HM2> don't be too harsh :P
 900 2013-02-04 20:14:44 <kjj> hmm.  ok, I know what I was thinking.
 901 2013-02-04 20:16:14 <pjorrit> maybe you should work on cbitcoin ;D
 902 2013-02-04 20:16:28 <HM2> who?
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 904 2013-02-04 20:17:31 <kjj> I just need a new base58 decoder.  mine returns a base256 binary, so I don't bother reconstructing the leading zeros and thus can't tell how many places I'm missing
 905 2013-02-04 20:17:36 <pjorrit> kjj, those ints could be multiplied by A * B before casting to bool
 906 2013-02-04 20:18:17 <pjorrit> is it faster bruteforcing it or are you doing it for fun?
 907 2013-02-04 20:18:22 <kjj> heh.  the logs will show that this wasn't my worst moment of dumb in here.
 908 2013-02-04 20:18:53 rdponticelli has joined
 909 2013-02-04 20:20:22 <kjj> pjorrit: pywallet could have done this in like a second because I have the pubkeys.  but I was curious about how to do it.  it isn't useful, because the right thing to do is ask the recipient to send it again, or to send a new key.  but it is kinda fun
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 917 2013-02-04 20:31:18 <kjj> ugh.  still plenty of crazies on the forums that think that Avalon might have faked the whole thing
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 926 2013-02-04 20:48:08 <HM2> kjj: I hear there's a company supercooling their mining equipment on the dark side of the moon
 927 2013-02-04 20:51:08 <pjorrit> it's the same trolls who invented jgarzik ;D
 928 2013-02-04 20:52:27 <kjj> apparently, some people think that maybe Jeff's miner is proxying requests to a pool for hire, paid for by the preorder cash
 929 2013-02-04 20:52:56 gjs278 has joined
 930 2013-02-04 20:53:08 <pjorrit> lol that's pretty clever
 931 2013-02-04 20:53:21 <pjorrit> would be a pretty crazy con
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 933 2013-02-04 20:54:27 <gmaxwell> "that explains why it didn't work on p2pool!"
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 935 2013-02-04 20:54:47 <Goonie> when will rc1 be tagged?
 936 2013-02-04 20:55:07 Dark_Ghost has joined
 937 2013-02-04 20:55:22 <pjorrit> well of they set it up correctly the proxy would just be retargeted :D
 938 2013-02-04 20:55:49 Belkaar has joined
 939 2013-02-04 20:59:16 <Luke-Jr> Goonie: I presume after some issues are fixed
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 942 2013-02-04 21:00:57 <MC1984> "jgarzic" is simply an account which avalon staff share on a rota
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 967 2013-02-04 21:41:04 <benkay> good morning!
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 981 2013-02-04 22:06:08 <muhoo> TD: hmm, looking at it, maybe i should just subclass com.google.bitcoinj.core.Wallet ?
 982 2013-02-04 22:06:17 <muhoo> or would that be .... evil?
 983 2013-02-04 22:06:36 <HM2> It's java. It's already evil
 984 2013-02-04 22:06:49 <muhoo> HM2: please, don't tell me that, i already know that.
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 986 2013-02-04 22:12:26 <muhoo> hmm, in this diagram, it says Base256-to-Base58. is that number in base256? or is it base16 (hex)? https://en.bitcoin.it/w/images/en/9/9b/PubKeyToAddr.png
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 988 2013-02-04 22:14:12 <HM2> it's the raw 160 bit / 20 byte output from ripemd160()
 989 2013-02-04 22:14:39 <HM2> there's no hex encoding
 990 2013-02-04 22:14:57 <Luke-Jr> muhoo: neither, it's binary
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 993 2013-02-04 22:19:38 <HM2> muhoo: you might find the C++ code helpful https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/base58.h
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1005 2013-02-04 22:30:33 <HM2> hmm both bitcoind and libbitcoin allocate 138% more space for the base58 encoded value
1006 2013-02-04 22:31:47 <HM2> ln 256 / ln 58 = <1.37
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1008 2013-02-04 22:32:20 <muhoo> that drawing, why does it say base256?
1009 2013-02-04 22:32:28 <muhoo> makes. no. sense.
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1011 2013-02-04 22:32:52 <HM2> base256 is binary, basically
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1013 2013-02-04 22:33:09 <HM2> not all binary is base256 though :P
1014 2013-02-04 22:33:10 <muhoo> base2 was binary last i checked
1015 2013-02-04 22:33:51 * muhoo goes to re-study his number theory
1016 2013-02-04 22:33:59 <HM2> right, but a 4 bit string isn't base256 unless you pad it to 8 bits, definite a bit order and label it as such
1017 2013-02-04 22:34:21 <gmaxwell> any 2^n base is trivally converted among each other.
1018 2013-02-04 22:34:49 <HM2> muhoo : it basically means it's a string of whole bytes
1019 2013-02-04 22:37:40 <muhoo> right, 25 raw bytes. i was just tripped up by the term base256 i guess. thanks
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1041 2013-02-04 23:01:01 <awkorama> Hi everyone. How can I monitor transactions on many addresses in server side situation (e.g. not without any 3rd party) ?
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1048 2013-02-04 23:05:57 <lianj> what is a wallet token?
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1084 2013-02-04 23:41:18 <benkay> does anyone have a minute to help me figure out atomic transactions?
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