1 2013-02-07 00:00:19 <Scrat> gavinandresen: I think he is talking about monitortx
   2 2013-02-07 00:00:26 <davout> instawallet doesn't handle that kind of load, the whole network doesn't see that kind of load yet :)
   3 2013-02-07 00:00:54 <CodeShark> hundreds of transactions per second - lol
   4 2013-02-07 00:00:56 <gavinandresen> true.
   5 2013-02-07 00:01:07 <CodeShark> it's more like a transaction every few seconds
   6 2013-02-07 00:01:13 <CodeShark> for the entire network
   7 2013-02-07 00:01:21 <davout> but to go back to your question i think the current architecture could easily support it because it's built around asynchronously processed queues
   8 2013-02-07 00:01:43 <gavinandresen> you mean the monitortx code?
   9 2013-02-07 00:01:46 <davout> CodeShark: i think we went over a tx/s a while ago with SD
  10 2013-02-07 00:01:48 <doublec> could someone spam a node that they know is using txnotify with lots of transactions that will never confirm to DOS it?
  11 2013-02-07 00:02:15 <CodeShark> you can filter out SD transactions (and it would be adviseable to) :)
  12 2013-02-07 00:02:30 <HM2> so what's the upgrade procedure for 0.8-rc1?
  13 2013-02-07 00:03:04 <gavinandresen> HM2: backup your wallet.  Install rc1, then run.  Be prepared for first startup to take a long time....
  14 2013-02-07 00:03:11 <davout> gavinandresen: well, if the monitortx command simply pushes a job in a Redis queue for example that wouldn't be a problem, Redis can handle thousands of pushes/s, workers on the other side of the queue simply pop jobs as they work them off
  15 2013-02-07 00:03:17 <HM2> i did that and it told me to delete everything except my wallet
  16 2013-02-07 00:03:29 <HM2> straight off the bat
  17 2013-02-07 00:04:22 <gavinandresen> davout: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1974 is likely to be the Offical Way(™)
  18 2013-02-07 00:05:08 <davout> gavinandresen: so to go back on the notifytx i really think it should delegate the responsibility of confirmation to the application layer and assume that the application layer will query pending transactions until they are confirmed (as defined at the app layer) on every blocknotify, thoughts?
  19 2013-02-07 00:05:33 <HM2> http://pastie.org/6083465
  20 2013-02-07 00:05:34 <gavinandresen> davout: agreed. That's what pull 1974 does
  21 2013-02-07 00:05:36 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  22 2013-02-07 00:05:51 <davout> gavinandresen: this pull request is like mcdonalds, i'm loving it
  23 2013-02-07 00:06:30 <CodeShark> davout, also check out 2121 :)
  24 2013-02-07 00:06:33 <gavinandresen> HM2: that is usually a berkely db version mismatch.  Were you running own-compiled binaries that linked against bdb 5 ?
  25 2013-02-07 00:06:40 <davout> gavinandresen: i really really like the "notify on outgoing txes too" that will open the door to distributed bitcoind setups once there is a way to replicate wallets in realtime
  26 2013-02-07 00:06:44 rdymac has joined
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  28 2013-02-07 00:07:09 <midnightmagic> open the door to distributed bitcoind setups?
  29 2013-02-07 00:07:14 <CodeShark> although 2121 is unlikely to become official
  30 2013-02-07 00:07:17 <HM2> gavinandresen: erm, don't think so. libdb4 should have been debian stable same as 0.7.2
  31 2013-02-07 00:07:19 <HM2> i will check
  32 2013-02-07 00:07:21 <CodeShark> I'd much rather see something like BIP0032
  33 2013-02-07 00:08:07 * gavinandresen tries to remember the bdb command to print the version of a database environment….
  34 2013-02-07 00:08:10 b4epoche has joined
  35 2013-02-07 00:08:18 * gavinandresen fails
  36 2013-02-07 00:08:35 <HM2> i'm trying to remember the command other than ldd to dump linked libraries for a binary
  37 2013-02-07 00:08:40 <davout> midnightmagic: guess i didn't think this one through but i'm thinking at setups where you can have a cluster of bitcoinds dispatch commands among them, and have nodes notify their local app layer to take into account a new transaction
  38 2013-02-07 00:08:49 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
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  40 2013-02-07 00:09:17 <HM2> if 0.7.2 still works and it's linked against the same library it should be fine, right? or is DBD hellspawn?
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  43 2013-02-07 00:09:57 <gavinandresen> if the 0.8.0 and 0.7.2 binaries create incompatible db environments, then we screwed up somewhere...
  44 2013-02-07 00:10:08 <davout> gavinandresen: bonus question: will 'validateaddress' report 'ismine' == true when the key is in the keypool but hasn't been used for a response to 'getnewaddress' ?
  45 2013-02-07 00:10:25 t7 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
  46 2013-02-07 00:10:47 <gavinandresen> davout: good question.  I think so, but I'm only 72% sure
  47 2013-02-07 00:11:07 <HM2> actually i think 0.7.2 is now broken
  48 2013-02-07 00:11:16 <HM2> db.log complains about the environment as well
  49 2013-02-07 00:12:19 <gavinandresen> on the bright side, 0.8.0 is faster downloading the blockchain, especially if you have lots of memory and specify -dbcache=1000
  50 2013-02-07 00:12:23 <davout> gavinandresen: which part of the code would hold the answer ? i probably speak C++ not much better than vietnamese but i can always try to have a look
  51 2013-02-07 00:12:43 <Scrat> walletnotify triggers once on mempool and once on block - what happens if you miss it? (lets say that your backend is down)
  52 2013-02-07 00:13:09 <midnightmagic> davout: rpcwallet.cpp:1475
  53 2013-02-07 00:13:13 <davout> Scrat: that would be the responsibility of the backend to handle its own failures
  54 2013-02-07 00:13:22 <HM2> working on American VPSs this time of night is hellish for me
  55 2013-02-07 00:13:37 <Scrat> ok it's a small patch. so if you miss it it's gone
  56 2013-02-07 00:15:20 <davout> midnightmagic: I guess I need to look up the implementation of IsMine() :)
  57 2013-02-07 00:15:30 <midnightmagic> wallet.cpp:519
  58 2013-02-07 00:15:46 <HM2> argh why is debian such a special child
  59 2013-02-07 00:15:56 <midnightmagic> no, that's for txn...
  60 2013-02-07 00:16:43 <davout> yea, just saw that :D
  61 2013-02-07 00:17:21 <midnightmagic> maybe script.cpp:1540
  62 2013-02-07 00:17:45 <gavinandresen> script.cpp line 1550
  63 2013-02-07 00:18:31 * midnightmagic realises he's in an old bitcoin does a git fetch --all
  64 2013-02-07 00:18:34 <gavinandresen> … and the short answer is yes, the keypool keys are in the wallet's keystore, so they are IsMine()
  65 2013-02-07 00:18:41 rbecker is now known as RBecker
  66 2013-02-07 00:18:56 <davout> gavinandresen: \o/ thanks
  67 2013-02-07 00:19:28 <davout> that was my next question, are keypool addresses in the 'keystore' before being given out
  68 2013-02-07 00:19:37 <davout> thanks for the help!
  69 2013-02-07 00:20:01 <gavinandresen> davout: yes, the keypool keys are just keys in the keystore that aren't associated with any account yet
  70 2013-02-07 00:20:34 <davout> gavinandresen: i see, if you just request an address it ends up with the '' account
  71 2013-02-07 00:20:42 <gavinandresen> right
  72 2013-02-07 00:21:04 <gavinandresen> errr… wait, no, what I said isn't quite true.  Change keys aren't associated with an account, either....
  73 2013-02-07 00:21:49 <gavinandresen> there's a separate index for keypool keys.
  74 2013-02-07 00:21:53 <davout> the plot thickens
  75 2013-02-07 00:21:58 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, only the addresses specifically assigned to an account are
  76 2013-02-07 00:22:26 <HM2> oh ffs
  77 2013-02-07 00:22:45 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: no, getnewaddress implicitly assigns the address returned to the "" account
  78 2013-02-07 00:22:47 <HM2> the default debian package for 0.7.2 is compiled against Berkley DB 5.x
  79 2013-02-07 00:22:49 <davout> so they're all stored in the keystore but simply indexed differently ?
  80 2013-02-07 00:22:51 asuk has quit (Quit: leaving)
  81 2013-02-07 00:22:58 <gavinandresen> davout: yes.
  82 2013-02-07 00:23:10 owowo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  83 2013-02-07 00:23:20 <davout> (meaning the ismine check works for unassigned addresses as well as change addresses if i follow)
  84 2013-02-07 00:23:24 <gavinandresen> yes
  85 2013-02-07 00:23:31 <davout> awesome
  86 2013-02-07 00:24:14 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, i was talking about keypool
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  90 2013-02-07 00:29:48 <davout> thanks to all of you for the protips!
  91 2013-02-07 00:29:57 <Scrat> -walletnotify "touch /inctx/%s" and then an fs.watch() on the directory which gets the transaction via rpc and deletes the file. this could work
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 108 2013-02-07 00:45:12 <MC1984> is simply copying wallet.dat when bitcoin it not running the same as exporting it properly when it is running
 109 2013-02-07 00:45:50 <gavinandresen> MC1984: yes
 110 2013-02-07 00:46:03 <MC1984> ok
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 118 2013-02-07 00:55:18 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: what do you find lacking in the current logging infrastructure? O.o
 119 2013-02-07 00:55:33 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: stdout logging is lame :)
 120 2013-02-07 00:55:41 <jgarzik> or stderr, or whatever the console logging is
 121 2013-02-07 00:55:52 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: the sharelogging is quite powerful, and all the code uses a lot of the Python logging (Log4j-like) module..
 122 2013-02-07 00:56:06 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: not talking about share logging
 123 2013-02-07 00:56:32 <Tyklol> might be a stupid question, but why not just use syslog ?
 124 2013-02-07 00:56:32 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: stdout is only default ;)
 125 2013-02-07 00:56:33 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: event logging, such as rebuilding the merkle tree, or indicating a longpoll to N clients
 126 2013-02-07 00:57:14 <MC1984> link for sourceforge?
 127 2013-02-07 00:57:55 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: anything not covered on http://docs.python.org/2/library/logging.config.html#module-logging.config ?
 128 2013-02-07 00:58:30 da2ce7_d is now known as da2ce7
 129 2013-02-07 00:59:02 <asuk> http://johnwbyrd.github.com/logog/
 130 2013-02-07 01:00:15 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: bleh
 131 2013-02-07 01:00:45 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: would it be easier if I had Eloipool load a dict-config from a var in the config.py file?
 132 2013-02-07 01:01:01 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: most apps make configury (a) easy and (b) documented :)   Like a config.py setting, pointing to stdout/stderr/file/syslog
 133 2013-02-07 01:04:22 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: I'll look into documenting some common use cases (and making them simpler if it turns out to be too much)
 134 2013-02-07 01:11:15 veralibertas has joined
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 136 2013-02-07 01:14:16 <MC1984> anyone got the magnet for the new bootstrap?
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 144 2013-02-07 01:31:40 <HM2> hmm
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 148 2013-02-07 01:42:10 <[7]> hm... so someone sneaked a bug into the sha256 reference implementation on wikipedia!
 149 2013-02-07 01:42:10 <[7]> went unnoticed for weeks apparently
 150 2013-02-07 01:42:10 <[7]> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=SHA-2&diff=534550697&oldid=533885753
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 155 2013-02-07 01:55:45 <jgarzik> MC1984: no new bootstrap (yet)
 156 2013-02-07 01:55:55 <jgarzik> MC1984: though since 0.8rc has been tagged, it's time (finally)
 157 2013-02-07 01:56:25 <MC1984> make it and lets seed
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 159 2013-02-07 02:08:19 <HM2> 0.8-rc1 up and running here
 160 2013-02-07 02:08:41 <HM2> gave up trying to get over the bdb4 vs bdb5 issue and just binned the blockchain
 161 2013-02-07 02:10:30 phma_ has joined
 162 2013-02-07 02:12:54 <jgarzik> 2013-02-07 01:54:54 ERROR: CTxMemPool::accept() : inputs already spent
 163 2013-02-07 02:12:54 <jgarzik> 2013-02-07 01:54:54 Misbehaving: 74.96.240.91:8333 (0 -> 0)
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 166 2013-02-07 02:15:41 <MC1984> on xp the progress bar is kinda square and not ovid to fill the bar border.....
 167 2013-02-07 02:15:46 <MC1984> ovoid
 168 2013-02-07 02:16:18 <MC1984> soit looks a bit like an ovoid with a orange rectangle over it than a bar
 169 2013-02-07 02:17:05 <MC1984> #firstwoldproblems
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 178 2013-02-07 02:51:42 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: pushed some docs and simplifications
 179 2013-02-07 02:52:15 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: that shouldn't be considered misbehaviour O.o
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 182 2013-02-07 03:05:53 <Luke-Jr> Eligius proposal node upgraded to 0.8.0rc1
 183 2013-02-07 03:06:14 <Luke-Jr> I'll discuss making it the GBT node with wizkid057
 184 2013-02-07 03:28:26 <jgarzik> did 0.8.0rc1 get released, or merely tagged?
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 187 2013-02-07 03:32:44 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: tagged and built, but we need more gitian builders / signatures before I announce
 188 2013-02-07 03:33:20 <gavinandresen> (I did upload binaries to sourceforge, too, which was probably a mistake)
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 210 2013-02-07 04:35:04 <BlueMatt> ;;later tell gavinandresen your 0.8.0rc1 builds are bad, they dont match mine, and specifically are compiled using gcc "4.4.2-1ubuntu4", but the latest on lucid (which should have been used) is 4.4.3-1ubuntu1
 211 2013-02-07 04:35:07 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 212 2013-02-07 04:39:40 <Luke-Jr> O.o
 213 2013-02-07 04:39:52 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: post yours? :P
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 215 2013-02-07 04:39:55 <BlueMatt> gavin's trying to steal our coins!
 216 2013-02-07 04:40:06 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: I pushed the sigs, Ive already overwriten the builds....
 217 2013-02-07 04:40:50 <Luke-Jr> oh, right
 218 2013-02-07 04:49:44 <BlueMatt> my win32s also dont match, but I find nothing that indicates fault (and mine have been failing to match for a while now, I blame kvm vs lxc, but Ill wait for more builds to see whats up)
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 224 2013-02-07 04:59:17 <n9ne> Can anyone help me, or point me in the right direction for some help? I need to connect to port 25 using telnet, but I am unable and have tried many strategies, to no avail. :(
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 227 2013-02-07 05:00:22 <randy-waterhouse> hey anybody here familiar with the script hash stuff?
 228 2013-02-07 05:05:12 HM2 has joined
 229 2013-02-07 05:07:33 <kjj> n9ne: what isn't working?
 230 2013-02-07 05:07:52 <kjj> randy-waterhouse: I'm a little familiar.  what do you need?
 231 2013-02-07 05:08:08 <randy-waterhouse> just a few pointers I think
 232 2013-02-07 05:08:11 <n9ne> @kjj it just says it keeps trying  until it times out. every time.
 233 2013-02-07 05:08:30 <n9ne> @kjj and my computer (a mac) used to do it just fine. Now it won't connect to any server on port 25
 234 2013-02-07 05:08:51 <kjj> your ISP started blocking outgoing SMTP traffic, most likely
 235 2013-02-07 05:09:07 <n9ne> Can I get around it?
 236 2013-02-07 05:09:18 <kjj> try 587 instead
 237 2013-02-07 05:09:49 <kjj> randy-waterhouse: pointers to what?
 238 2013-02-07 05:09:58 <randy-waterhouse> kjj: e.g. at this link here http://explorer.dot-bit.org/tx/1235804 the scriptSig scriptPubKey for a tx are shown ...
 239 2013-02-07 05:10:31 <randy-waterhouse> which number in the scriptSig is the <sig> and which is the <pubKey> specifically
 240 2013-02-07 05:10:33 <randy-waterhouse> ?
 241 2013-02-07 05:12:59 <randy-waterhouse> so assuming it is a valid tx i tried to check using cli "openssl dgst" that it was valid but to no avail ... are there a few tips to watch out for?
 242 2013-02-07 05:13:17 <n9ne> @kjj 587 constantly times out as well
 243 2013-02-07 05:14:20 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: uh, you can't really use openssl for anything useful here— it's not like it understands bitcoin transactions. :)
 244 2013-02-07 05:14:38 <randy-waterhouse> gmaxwell: well that is not exactly true
 245 2013-02-07 05:14:49 <randy-waterhouse> since botg.sh generates addresses quite correctly
 246 2013-02-07 05:14:57 <randy-waterhouse> and uses openssl dgst throughout
 247 2013-02-07 05:15:04 <kjj> n9ne: do you have nmap?
 248 2013-02-07 05:15:40 <randy-waterhouse> i'm not doing a tx ... just hashing the pubKey to address
 249 2013-02-07 05:16:06 <kjj> randy-waterhouse: I'm not sure how the namecoin explorer parses transactions, so I don't know how many layers have been unwrapped
 250 2013-02-07 05:16:27 <randy-waterhouse> kjj: ok thanks
 251 2013-02-07 05:16:52 <kjj> but, in the link you gave, the txout pubkey hash is http://explorer.dot-bit.org/tx/1235804
 252 2013-02-07 05:16:53 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: uh... a seperate program (even if its in a lame language like shell) can do things the component progras will not.
 253 2013-02-07 05:16:55 <kjj> bf16fabe466f021ffbf00aeebd41e588d363579e
 254 2013-02-07 05:17:19 <n9ne> @kjj No I don't. I just know that the mx server is 7577287963395599715.mail.outlook.com
 255 2013-02-07 05:17:21 <randy-waterhouse> kjj: yes I figured that
 256 2013-02-07 05:17:22 <gmaxwell> but hey, if you'd rather try to debate things with me than ask useful questions and accept the answers you get— be my guest.
 257 2013-02-07 05:17:31 <randy-waterhouse> fu
 258 2013-02-07 05:17:50 <randy-waterhouse> i'm not debating anything ...
 259 2013-02-07 05:17:58 <randy-waterhouse> which number in the scriptSig is the <sig> and which is the <pubKey> specifically?
 260 2013-02-07 05:18:06 <randy-waterhouse> kjj: e.g. at this link here http://explorer.dot-bit.org/tx/1235804 the scriptSig scriptPubKey for a tx are shown ...
 261 2013-02-07 05:18:09 <gmaxwell> But no matter how much you argue you're not going to get openssl to validate a bitcoin signature.
 262 2013-02-07 05:18:13 <n9ne> @randy-waterhouse gmaxwell knows what he's talking about. He's literally a computer genius.
 263 2013-02-07 05:18:17 <randy-waterhouse> gmaxwell: : e.g. at this link here http://explorer.dot-bit.org/tx/1235804 the scriptSig scriptPubKey for a tx are shown ...
 264 2013-02-07 05:18:30 <randy-waterhouse> which number in the scriptSig is the <sig> and which is the <pubKey> specifically?
 265 2013-02-07 05:18:41 <randy-waterhouse> thnx?
 266 2013-02-07 05:19:01 <kjj> n9ne: 587 isn't open on that box, but 25 is, but your ISP is almost certainly filtering it.  why do you need to connect to it?
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 268 2013-02-07 05:19:40 <kjj> randy-waterhouse: https://en.bitcoin.it/w/images/en/e/e1/TxBinaryMap.png
 269 2013-02-07 05:19:49 <n9ne> @kjj it's a computer project of mine to spoof an e-mail to my university e-mail address
 270 2013-02-07 05:20:03 <n9ne> using telnet
 271 2013-02-07 05:20:35 <n9ne> I've spoofed before, but I have no idea how to do it if I can't connect to the mx server using telnet :(
 272 2013-02-07 05:21:05 <kjj> heh.  that is why ISPs block outgoing 25.  try it from your university network
 273 2013-02-07 05:21:23 <randy-waterhouse> kjj: so https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script#Standard_Transaction_to_Bitcoin_address has another layer of encoding that you just showed I see ... thnx
 274 2013-02-07 05:21:51 <gmaxwell> that explorer doesn't seem to have any way to get the actual raw transaction. And it looks like it's somewhat mangling the scriptsigs.
 275 2013-02-07 05:21:51 <n9ne> @kjj I'm on my university network :(
 276 2013-02-07 05:22:22 <n9ne> I can't use a university computer because they all have not enabled telnet , and it requires admin privs to do so. I am using my laptop on their network
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 278 2013-02-07 05:22:47 <randy-waterhouse> gmaxwell: thanks ... that's what I was wondering ... are there any tools to pull raw tx from the blockchain?
 279 2013-02-07 05:23:08 <kjj> in bitcoin, yes.  getrawtransaction RPC call will do it
 280 2013-02-07 05:23:38 <kjj> but namecoin runs on an old fork and doesn't have it.  I only point that out because your link was to a namecoin block
 281 2013-02-07 05:24:03 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: in bitcoin it's easy, run getrawtransaction — but thats namecoin and AFAIK no one maintains software for namecoin anymore.
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 284 2013-02-07 05:25:28 <randy-waterhouse> gmaxwell: thanks but i wasn't for a update about the status of namecoin
 285 2013-02-07 05:25:36 <randy-waterhouse> s/asking
 286 2013-02-07 05:26:00 <randy-waterhouse> kjj: thns again, most helpful; as usual
 287 2013-02-07 05:26:07 randy-waterhouse has left ("Freedom.")
 288 2013-02-07 05:26:10 <n9ne> Feisty D:
 289 2013-02-07 05:26:21 <gmaxwell> What the hell.
 290 2013-02-07 05:26:22 <kjj> heh.  that guy's a bit of a dick.
 291 2013-02-07 05:27:03 <gmaxwell> I think it's unfortunate that no one maintains software for namecoin anymore. I was just answering the question. :-/
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 294 2013-02-07 05:30:23 <n9ne> I'm trying to use "waterroof" to open a port on the network
 295 2013-02-07 05:30:40 <n9ne> or to check if a port is open
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 306 2013-02-07 05:56:24 <gmaxwell> Some context to randy-waterhouse's credit. Apparently some confusion from who knows where had him having a prior expectation that I was some big namecoin hater. With the understanding that he was tinking that, I think his response makes a lot more sense to me now.
 307 2013-02-07 06:06:34 <gjs278> namecoin is gay
 308 2013-02-07 06:06:42 <gjs278> tell them to send the hate my way
 309 2013-02-07 06:08:14 <wizkid057> there any way to get bitcoind to bind outbound connections to a specified ip/interface?
 310 2013-02-07 06:09:13 <kjj> -listen
 311 2013-02-07 06:09:40 <gmaxwell> kjj: outbound
 312 2013-02-07 06:10:02 <gmaxwell> wizkid057: not AFAIK.
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 314 2013-02-07 06:11:39 <kjj> oh, outbound.  that's rare
 315 2013-02-07 06:13:43 <gmaxwell> easiest thing to do would be to use the proxy stuff for that, I guess.
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 319 2013-02-07 06:14:55 <wizkid057> i'll just hide it in an LXC
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 321 2013-02-07 06:15:32 <kjj> I think it should be a fairly easy patch if there is some need
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 350 2013-02-07 07:18:07 <jj_> hey does anyone know of any bitcoin mining programs written in plain c?
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 352 2013-02-07 07:19:09 <Luke-Jr> jj_: BFGMiner?
 353 2013-02-07 07:19:59 <jj_> googling it
 354 2013-02-07 07:20:50 <jj_> nice but maybe something a bit smallers
 355 2013-02-07 07:21:29 <Luke-Jr> jj_: libblkmaker has a very short example, without networking
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 358 2013-02-07 07:27:56 <midnightmagic> jj_: .. smaller?
 359 2013-02-07 07:28:34 <jj_> sorry yes smaller as in much less code to analys
 360 2013-02-07 07:28:42 <midnightmagic> it's like 29MB, and 26MB of it is fpga bitstreams.
 361 2013-02-07 07:29:08 <jj_> im trying to get a basic understanding of how bit coins work by reading the code
 362 2013-02-07 07:29:21 <Luke-Jr> jj_: mining isn't bitcoins
 363 2013-02-07 07:29:30 <Luke-Jr> mining is just SHA256 :P
 364 2013-02-07 07:29:37 <midnightmagic> bitcoind has it all, including a CPU miner. reading the .cl code for the GPU miners won't tell you much.
 365 2013-02-07 07:29:38 <kjj> reading the wiki might be a better use of your time
 366 2013-02-07 07:30:04 <jj_> mining is the discovery of bit coin strings isnt it?
 367 2013-02-07 07:30:06 <Luke-Jr> I'd recommend Satoshi's PDF first
 368 2013-02-07 07:30:16 <Luke-Jr> jj_: no, there are no "bitcoin strings"
 369 2013-02-07 07:30:22 <jj_> :(
 370 2013-02-07 07:31:43 <jj_> i thought a block was similar to a character string
 371 2013-02-07 07:33:02 <andytoshi> jj_: the PDF is at http://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
 372 2013-02-07 07:33:08 <jj_> i mean i thought the chain of digital signatures was similar to a string
 373 2013-02-07 07:33:10 <andytoshi> that will give you the high level picture and the vocabulary to ask the right questions
 374 2013-02-07 07:33:22 <jj_> thanks lol
 375 2013-02-07 07:35:46 <andytoshi> ;;bc,blocks
 376 2013-02-07 07:35:47 <gribble> 220009
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 429 2013-02-07 10:06:09 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: programmers are assholes
 430 2013-02-07 10:06:53 <Diablo-D3> the ONLY b(2,6) de brujin sequence Ive found on the intertubes gives incorrect answers
 431 2013-02-07 10:07:22 <Diablo-D3> de brujin sequences are good at finding the most significant bit in numbers using very few ops
 432 2013-02-07 10:07:40 <Diablo-D3> its usually faster than ops in the cpu depending on what you're doing
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 528 2013-02-07 14:46:57 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: so what's the best way to update the compiler in my target-lucid-*.qcow VM images ?  make_base_vm to create brand-new ones ?
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 534 2013-02-07 15:11:05 <gavinandresen> Any OSX folks here? I've got a really annoying problem building the 0.8.0rc1 OSX binaries
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 538 2013-02-07 15:12:27 <gavinandresen> Apparently, the version of std::vector in the MacOSX10.5.sdk is missing the .data() method….
 539 2013-02-07 15:14:48 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: the weird thing is the build script starts by updating, so I dont know whats up
 540 2013-02-07 15:14:54 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: in any case, you can do it manually....
 541 2013-02-07 15:15:07 <BlueMatt> export PATH=$PATH:libexec && on-target -u root
 542 2013-02-07 15:15:13 <BlueMatt> then apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
 543 2013-02-07 15:15:59 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: thanks
 544 2013-02-07 15:17:18 <BlueMatt> oh, and if you update and your linux builds still dont match mine, go ahead and delete mine (gitian-builder seems to have issues where kvm builds dont match lxc)
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 563 2013-02-07 15:53:24 <comboy_> what's the best tool to get detailed info about the blockchain (like not-mine transaction details)? I'm reading that gavin's bitcointools "are becoming obsolete as we move away from using berkdb"
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 567 2013-02-07 15:54:47 <gavinandresen> comboy_: running 0.8.0 bitcoind with -txindex then using RPC methods like getrawtransaction/getblock will get you a long ways.
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 569 2013-02-07 15:55:02 <gavinandresen> comboy_: …. depending on what information you need.
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 571 2013-02-07 15:55:42 <comboy_> gavinandresen:  oh, this getrawtransaction sounds good, I'll give 0.8.0 a try then, thanks a lot
 572 2013-02-07 15:55:49 <gavinandresen> comboy_: if you need fast access to things like "give me all transactions to/from this public key" then you'll probably want to maintain your own database customized for whatever queries you need to do
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 574 2013-02-07 15:56:15 <comboy_> gavinandresen: yes I'm thinking about own database with own indexes, I just want to get raw data
 575 2013-02-07 15:56:56 <gavinandresen> if you just want to get the raw data in the current blockchain, getblock  will do that.  and -blocknotify will tell you when bitcoind gets new blocks....
 576 2013-02-07 15:57:47 <comboy_> yes but on 0.7.2 I seem to be only able to get info about my own transactions, or am I wrong?
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 578 2013-02-07 15:59:01 <comboy_> ah, I should use getrawtransaction I suppose and I've been trying gettransaction,  maybe I'll read some more docs before wasting your time, anyway thanks for hints :)
 579 2013-02-07 15:59:12 <HM2> eesh
 580 2013-02-07 15:59:18 <HM2> 0.8-rc1 is still a memory hog
 581 2013-02-07 16:01:01 <HM2> not synced yet though hmm
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 583 2013-02-07 16:04:31 <gavinandresen> HM2: you're syncing on a VPS ?
 584 2013-02-07 16:04:32 <btc123> anyone know who runs blockchain.info?
 585 2013-02-07 16:04:51 <gavinandresen> btc123: Ben Reeves runs blockchain.info
 586 2013-02-07 16:04:56 crazy4btc has joined
 587 2013-02-07 16:05:15 <Scrat> aka piuk on irc
 588 2013-02-07 16:05:21 <btc123> thanks guys
 589 2013-02-07 16:05:26 <Scrat> hasn't been online for quite some time
 590 2013-02-07 16:06:36 <HM2> gavinandresen: correct. 480/500 MB ram used, plus 600 of 1GiB swap
 591 2013-02-07 16:07:09 <btc123> looks like i lost my iphone blockchain wallet... when the service was down on tuesday, the wallet unpaired for the first time since i installed it (6-8 months?) and i can't remember the password.... i suppose i'm screwed?
 592 2013-02-07 16:07:17 <HM2> I take it there's no heiristic to scale back any default buffers based on machine memory?
 593 2013-02-07 16:07:30 dvide has quit ()
 594 2013-02-07 16:07:37 <HM2> He-ur-istic
 595 2013-02-07 16:08:19 Hashdog has joined
 596 2013-02-07 16:08:28 <gavinandresen> HM2: no, I think all of the cache settings assume you have at least 2GB of memory.
 597 2013-02-07 16:09:23 <gavinandresen> "patches welcome" if you want to futz around with making it run better on low-memory machines, but memory is pretty cheap these days.
 598 2013-02-07 16:10:37 <btc123> i don't suppose anyone knows where the blockchain iphone app stores the password on the device? (it auto-connects when it loads)
 599 2013-02-07 16:10:43 Zarutian has joined
 600 2013-02-07 16:10:46 <gavinandresen> HM2: actually, a patch I've been thinking of writing is a RPC command to report on the size of all the various internal buffers (memory pool of unconfirmed transactions, orphan transactions, etc etc)
 601 2013-02-07 16:11:00 <HM2> yeah on my machine, but VPSs tend to charge you for other things alongside ram :P
 602 2013-02-07 16:11:03 <gavinandresen> HM2 : if you want a project, that might be a good one to start with
 603 2013-02-07 16:11:19 <HM2> noted
 604 2013-02-07 16:12:45 nanotube has quit (Quit: Something is wrong...)
 605 2013-02-07 16:13:56 owowo has joined
 606 2013-02-07 16:14:03 <Diablo-D3> everyone should upvote this: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/182fth/i_am_matt_taibbi_politics_writer_for_rolling/c8azhpr
 607 2013-02-07 16:15:58 nanotube has joined
 608 2013-02-07 16:16:33 <sipa> gavinandresen: jeff's network message refactor would help a lot regarding memory usage
 609 2013-02-07 16:17:01 CodeShark has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 610 2013-02-07 16:17:55 Guest61158 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 611 2013-02-07 16:18:06 <gavinandresen> sipa: great, we should get that debugged and into the 0.8+ release early
 612 2013-02-07 16:18:46 <sipa> especially with many connections
 613 2013-02-07 16:18:59 <HM2> 8 connections so far, been syncing for about 12 hours
 614 2013-02-07 16:22:52 <HM2> fortunately it's just a little test box.
 615 2013-02-07 16:24:04 tonikt has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 616 2013-02-07 16:27:01 KIDC has joined
 617 2013-02-07 16:30:19 WeLoveCP is now known as PastaBurrito
 618 2013-02-07 16:38:46 <gmaxwell> 01:49 < Diablo-D3> the ONLY b(2,6) de brujin sequence Ive found on the intertubes gives incorrect answers
 619 2013-02-07 16:39:41 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: Im writing an opencl program to mine de bruijns
 620 2013-02-07 16:39:49 <gmaxwell> I wrote code for them in the opus unit tests, but it only does k,2 ones, IIRC.. though it could be modified.
 621 2013-02-07 16:40:16 <Diablo-D3> I wrote a cpu one, but it takes like 30 seconds to do a million
 622 2013-02-07 16:40:24 <gmaxwell> though modifying it would require reading combinatoric algebra code I wrote for one time use, good luck with that.
 623 2013-02-07 16:40:47 <Diablo-D3> Im cheating, Im just checking power of two numbers
 624 2013-02-07 16:41:00 <gmaxwell> http://git.xiph.org/?p=opus.git;a=blob;f=tests/test_opus_common.h;h=d1e6b452918ed0e29c8208fcb7682bf174973b49;hb=HEAD#l44
 625 2013-02-07 16:41:03 <Diablo-D3> 64 attempts for every number =P
 626 2013-02-07 16:41:40 <gmaxwell> (they're useful for generating test cases: e.g. if you want to test all the transitions between modes of something)
 627 2013-02-07 16:42:10 HM2 has quit ()
 628 2013-02-07 16:45:48 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
 629 2013-02-07 16:46:38 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 630 2013-02-07 16:46:51 <rdymac> if 0.8 use filters then none node will has the entire blockchain, so how can it be share with others if each node has only data related to its wallet?
 631 2013-02-07 16:47:01 HM has joined
 632 2013-02-07 16:47:43 Maged has joined
 633 2013-02-07 16:50:16 <gmaxwell> rdymac: I'd love to know what gave you the confusion that 0.8 used bloom filters.
 634 2013-02-07 16:50:43 rdponticelli has joined
 635 2013-02-07 16:51:15 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt?
 636 2013-02-07 16:51:16 <Diablo-D3> why not?
 637 2013-02-07 16:51:38 <gmaxwell> Because its inapplicable to a full node.
 638 2013-02-07 16:52:14 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but what about the cache code?
 639 2013-02-07 16:52:49 <kuzetsa> bitcoin-qt showing a bad alloc? --> http://i48.tinypic.com/63u8te.png
 640 2013-02-07 16:52:52 <rdymac> a forum post
 641 2013-02-07 16:53:02 <kuzetsa> I've never seen this error before
 642 2013-02-07 16:53:04 <rdymac> let me found it again
 643 2013-02-07 16:54:08 <gavinandresen> kuzetsa: what version of bitcoin-qt is that?
 644 2013-02-07 16:55:00 <kuzetsa> gavinandresen: 0.7.2
 645 2013-02-07 16:55:03 <gavinandresen> kuzetsa: … and it is handling getwork or getblocktemplate requests?
 646 2013-02-07 16:55:17 <kuzetsa> gavinandresen: no, it is not
 647 2013-02-07 16:55:35 <gavinandresen> kuzetsa: hmmm.  Any RPC requests at all ?
 648 2013-02-07 16:55:56 <rdymac> http://bit.ly/UXsJ6T
 649 2013-02-07 16:56:20 <gavinandresen> somebody else tracked down a bad_alloc to creating too many threads, and I believe the latest RPC code creates a thread for every RPC request is why I ask
 650 2013-02-07 16:56:29 <kuzetsa> gavinandresen: not from my own LAN... could rpc requests be coming in from random bitcoin nodes?
 651 2013-02-07 16:56:57 <gavinandresen> kuzetsa: no, unless you opened up your RPC port with the rpcallowip option
 652 2013-02-07 16:57:13 <kuzetsa> 1 sec, checking the .conf file
 653 2013-02-07 16:57:23 <sipa> Diablo-D3, gmaxwel: technically, LevelDB does use bloom codes internally
 654 2013-02-07 16:57:36 <Diablo-D3> good enough for me then
 655 2013-02-07 16:57:58 <kuzetsa> I don't appear to have any references to RPC anywhere in my .conf
 656 2013-02-07 16:59:06 <rdymac> they talk about the 0.8 rc released binary by Gavin
 657 2013-02-07 16:59:14 <gavinandresen> kuzetsa: ok, then I'm baffled. Let us know if it happens when 0.8 is out
 658 2013-02-07 16:59:28 <gmaxwell> rdymac: I won't follow a bitly'd link in here. Please provide the actual forum link.
 659 2013-02-07 16:59:29 * kuzetsa nods
 660 2013-02-07 17:00:07 <rdymac> sorry https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=141543.0
 661 2013-02-07 17:00:18 <kuzetsa> at or around june 2012 when I first used any version of the "satoshi" reference client to date, this is the first I've ever seen something like this
 662 2013-02-07 17:00:21 <rdymac> manually copied from mobile
 663 2013-02-07 17:01:05 <gmaxwell> rdymac: that post is about bitcoin wallet for android.
 664 2013-02-07 17:01:26 <gmaxwell> The post by mike below elaborates.
 665 2013-02-07 17:01:33 <rdymac> "Anyone know where there's a copy of bitcoin 0.8? Can't find it on Gavin's page anymore."
 666 2013-02-07 17:02:11 <sipa> 0.8 isnot released yet
 667 2013-02-07 17:02:13 <rdymac> ummm didn't read anything about Android
 668 2013-02-07 17:02:14 ken` has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 669 2013-02-07 17:02:17 <gmaxwell> sipa: and _you_ don't you feed the FUD. :P
 670 2013-02-07 17:02:22 <jgarzik> 2013-02-07 11:01:19 StopNode()
 671 2013-02-07 17:02:22 <jgarzik> 2013-02-07 11:01:19 ThreadOpenConnections exited
 672 2013-02-07 17:02:22 <jgarzik> 2013-02-07 11:01:19 ThreadMessageHandler exited
 673 2013-02-07 17:02:22 <jgarzik> 2013-02-07 11:01:30 ThreadDumpAddress exited
 674 2013-02-07 17:02:22 <jgarzik> 2013-02-07 11:01:40 ThreadsRPCServer still running
 675 2013-02-07 17:02:23 <jgarzik> 2013-02-07 11:02:01 ThreadOpenAddedConnections exited
 676 2013-02-07 17:02:33 <jgarzik> git HEAD hits shutdown deadlock again
 677 2013-02-07 17:02:42 <gmaxwell> rdymac: the message is posted in the android subforum because it's about the android wallet.
 678 2013-02-07 17:02:49 <sipa> hmm, can you debug jgarzik?
 679 2013-02-07 17:03:05 <sipa> find out which thread is waiting in which critsect?
 680 2013-02-07 17:03:09 bitafterbit has joined
 681 2013-02-07 17:03:09 <rdymac> damn, sorry, didn't read that
 682 2013-02-07 17:03:21 <gmaxwell> rdymac: s'okay.
 683 2013-02-07 17:03:22 <rdymac> not a good title post
 684 2013-02-07 17:03:23 <jgarzik> sipa: haven't found a reliable reproducer, so I'm limited to what I can debug without having starting gdb prior to execution
 685 2013-02-07 17:03:29 <jgarzik> i.e. active introspection that's it
 686 2013-02-07 17:03:41 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: you can attach gdb once it's locked and at least see where it is.
 687 2013-02-07 17:03:41 <jgarzik> just have an active, stuck process
 688 2013-02-07 17:03:51 <sipa> you can't attach gdb once it's stuck?
 689 2013-02-07 17:04:10 * gmaxwell bets its the one he found we could never explain
 690 2013-02-07 17:04:24 <sipa> yeah, could be
 691 2013-02-07 17:04:40 nus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 692 2013-02-07 17:04:53 nus has joined
 693 2013-02-07 17:05:01 <jgarzik> literally never done a gdb attach before..  ok, attached, pastebin coming
 694 2013-02-07 17:05:34 b4epoche has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 695 2013-02-07 17:05:40 <jgarzik> backtrace, immediately following attach: http://pastebin.com/ENnXRVyJ
 696 2013-02-07 17:06:16 <gmaxwell> that thread is not interesting, go find an interesting one.
 697 2013-02-07 17:06:22 <sipa> jgarzik: info threads
 698 2013-02-07 17:06:35 <jgarzik> sipa: hah, just finished that
 699 2013-02-07 17:06:38 <jgarzik> info threads: http://pastebin.com/ZR8PnXQV
 700 2013-02-07 17:07:10 <gmaxwell> get a bt on 5.
 701 2013-02-07 17:07:48 <sipa> id e also looks suspicious
 702 2013-02-07 17:07:57 <sipa> id 3
 703 2013-02-07 17:08:04 <jgarzik> id 3 bt: http://pastebin.com/wDZpPLqw
 704 2013-02-07 17:08:05 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 705 2013-02-07 17:08:07 <Diablo-D3> what the hell gcc
 706 2013-02-07 17:08:12 ielo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 707 2013-02-07 17:08:18 <Diablo-D3> format \u2018%llu\u2019 expects argument of type \u2018long long unsigned int\u2019, but argument 2 has type \u2018uint64_t\u2019 [-Wformat]
 708 2013-02-07 17:08:37 <jgarzik> id 5 bt: http://pastebin.com/rDiFDgfC
 709 2013-02-07 17:09:03 * gmaxwell loses bet
 710 2013-02-07 17:09:39 <jgarzik> id 4 bt: http://pastebin.com/SQKd6Rsq
 711 2013-02-07 17:09:45 <sipa> ok, id5 is the lelveldb compaction thread - nothing to worry about
 712 2013-02-07 17:10:00 b4epoche has joined
 713 2013-02-07 17:10:55 <jgarzik> asic miner testing (getwork) definitely occurred during this runtime
 714 2013-02-07 17:11:00 <sipa> but wth is rpc trying to receive?
 715 2013-02-07 17:11:20 <Diablo-D3> WTF
 716 2013-02-07 17:11:20 <jgarzik> so it is fair to say that 'getwork' was stressed quite hard
 717 2013-02-07 17:11:21 <sipa> it should timeout and notice the fRequestShutdown
 718 2013-02-07 17:11:37 <Diablo-D3> it lets me use %zu which is size_t aka unsigned long
 719 2013-02-07 17:11:49 da2ce7_d has joined
 720 2013-02-07 17:13:01 * sipa afk
 721 2013-02-07 17:13:09 <gavinandresen> bah, my gitian machine has suddenly decide it doesn't want to work…  "Connection timed out during banner exchange"
 722 2013-02-07 17:13:59 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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 731 2013-02-07 17:18:39 <gavinandresen> All righty… we need more people who can gitian-build releases.  I'm thinking of trying bribery… great idea or terrible idea?
 732 2013-02-07 17:19:52 <jgarzik> as long as they are trusted :)
 733 2013-02-07 17:20:20 <gavinandresen> you mean not to cheat?
 734 2013-02-07 17:21:59 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: as long as there is a trusted person with a signature, compensated+untrusted backups are fine
 735 2013-02-07 17:22:20 <gavinandresen> agreed.
 736 2013-02-07 17:22:37 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: Just saying that 100% compensated+untrusted won't work, but maybe that is just stating the blindingly obvious ;p
 737 2013-02-07 17:23:10 <gmaxwell> Encourging more work on gitian would be good... there is only so many hours of dorking around with a VM in an VM and having it not work people are willing to tolerate. :)
 738 2013-02-07 17:23:31 <gmaxwell> esp becase when it fails its totally opaque.
 739 2013-02-07 17:24:52 <jgarzik> sipa: any other hung-bitcoind introspection wanted?
 740 2013-02-07 17:25:08 <jgarzik> I've only seen this behavior when pointing the asic miner at RPC
 741 2013-02-07 17:25:09 rdponticelli has joined
 742 2013-02-07 17:25:32 <jgarzik> disappointing that I cannot directly solo mine though
 743 2013-02-07 17:25:41 * jgarzik had been looking forward to that
 744 2013-02-07 17:25:50 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: well, I was thinking of "1 BTC to the first 5 people to submit pull requests to gitian.sigs with valid kvm gitian signatures"   -- but maybe it would be better to set a bounty for whoever makes gitian build process a lot easier…
 745 2013-02-07 17:27:08 <jgarzik> why not do both?
 746 2013-02-07 17:27:16 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: why not indeed.
 747 2013-02-07 17:27:19 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: if the GBT support were not broken.
 748 2013-02-07 17:27:21 <jgarzik> and can a sig be faked?  can you just paste the last hash + GPG sign it?
 749 2013-02-07 17:27:28 <gmaxwell> doh.
 750 2013-02-07 17:27:55 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: I was just looking at that, if the .assert files match exactly you could cheat by copying somebody else's and CLAIMING that you built....
 751 2013-02-07 17:28:05 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: ?
 752 2013-02-07 17:28:34 <gmaxwell> both sounds fine except for that (that you could fake it much easier than just doing it)... but I think there naturally would be more if gitian just worked.
 753 2013-02-07 17:28:53 ken` has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 754 2013-02-07 17:28:54 <gmaxwell> (esp if it just worked while the host was running in KVM)
 755 2013-02-07 17:29:36 CodesInChaos has joined
 756 2013-02-07 17:30:02 <jgarzik> what if the published hash was binary output + some stirring factor (email, gpg signature fingerprint, ...)
 757 2013-02-07 17:30:04 MobPhone has joined
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 759 2013-02-07 17:30:31 ken` has joined
 760 2013-02-07 17:30:39 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: unfortunately cgminer doesn't really have working GBT based mining. Hopefully once code is out for the avalon luke will port the driver to bfgminer and solo mining will just work.
 761 2013-02-07 17:31:51 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: I cant see a way to prevent the rebinding. Basically, you have the binaries— thats the same product you get from building it yourself.
 762 2013-02-07 17:32:19 <kinlo> hmmmz, I'm willing to look at the gitian build process, but I just need someone to hold my hand, as I do not have the time to figure everything out on my own....
 763 2013-02-07 17:32:23 <gmaxwell> you could do a two-phase thing where people post H(signtures) then you cut off payouts then people post the signatures.
 764 2013-02-07 17:32:41 <gmaxwell> kinlo: do you run ubuntu?
 765 2013-02-07 17:32:51 <kinlo> depends
 766 2013-02-07 17:33:01 <gmaxwell> I _think_ it mostly just works if you run ubuntu natively on your host and then follow the instructions.
 767 2013-02-07 17:33:02 <kinlo> is your question: do you run ubuntu native?
 768 2013-02-07 17:33:08 <kinlo> then no, but I can set up a vm
 769 2013-02-07 17:33:17 <kinlo> but if you need me to run kvm inside ubuntu...
 770 2013-02-07 17:33:44 <gmaxwell> Right. Yea, with the host in the VM this did not work for me either of the times I tried it.
 771 2013-02-07 17:33:59 <HM> God i love kde
 772 2013-02-07 17:34:10 <kinlo> so basicly, one needs spare hardware to be able to set up gitian
 773 2013-02-07 17:34:21 <kinlo> That means reinstalling my linux desktop
 774 2013-02-07 17:34:24 <HM> there're 3 bitcoin plasma widgets
 775 2013-02-07 17:35:19 <sipa> jgarzik: i'm currehtly in a small ski village in the french alps, with a cell phone with mobile internet
 776 2013-02-07 17:35:47 <sipa> debugging is easier after saturday :)
 777 2013-02-07 17:35:53 <jgarzik> sipa: just start an Ubuntu VM on your phone then!
 778 2013-02-07 17:35:54 <jgarzik> :)
 779 2013-02-07 17:36:11 <kinlo> sipa: I hope without roaming :)
 780 2013-02-07 17:36:13 * jgarzik is reviewing a HUD Settlement Statement
 781 2013-02-07 17:36:18 <sipa> ok, brb in a year
 782 2013-02-07 17:36:29 <sipa> kinlo: roaming :)
 783 2013-02-07 17:36:35 <kinlo> sipa: auch :)
 784 2013-02-07 17:36:49 <kinlo> good thing ssh doesn't take too much bandwith, and you can compress it
 785 2013-02-07 17:36:58 <HM> mosh!
 786 2013-02-07 17:37:08 <sipa> indeed
 787 2013-02-07 17:41:10 <gavinandresen> I'm almost motivated enough to take this pull https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1597   , extract just the "use VirtualBox instead of kvm" part and apply it to gitian
 788 2013-02-07 17:44:15 <kinlo> gavinandresen: so you are building everything on mac?
 789 2013-02-07 17:44:18 <kinlo> interesting...
 790 2013-02-07 17:44:43 <gavinandresen> kinlo: no, Linux and Windows are built on an Ubuntu machine
 791 2013-02-07 17:45:02 <kinlo> ic
 792 2013-02-07 17:45:10 <kinlo> hmmmz, maybe I can use an old laptop to install ubuntu
 793 2013-02-07 17:45:33 <kinlo> and get everything going from there, the hardware is good enough to run a minimal kvm instance
 794 2013-02-07 17:46:13 <gavinandresen> kinlo: that's essentially my setup, an old underpowered laptop…. but gitian is continuing to be flaky for me.  sigh.
 795 2013-02-07 17:47:14 <gavinandresen> … actually, two old, underpowered laptops (I use an old 32-bit macbook to compile the OSX binaries)
 796 2013-02-07 17:47:57 <kinlo> I'm going home, I'll look at installing ubuntu on my old laptop tonight, I'll see how far I get tonight
 797 2013-02-07 17:48:00 <kinlo> afk
 798 2013-02-07 17:55:49 <gavinandresen> mmm… actually I think it might not be too hard to get gitian working with VirtualBox, using VBoxManage commands….
 799 2013-02-07 17:57:35 <HM> what is gitian?
 800 2013-02-07 17:57:51 <HM> hmm a software distro method, cool
 801 2013-02-07 17:58:32 <gavinandresen> HM: yes, https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder
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 807 2013-02-07 18:05:45 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: meh, no need for bribery - I'll build it sometime today
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 810 2013-02-07 18:11:52 <Luke-Jr> Sleep(5000) should return in 5 seconds, right? :/
 811 2013-02-07 18:13:14 <jgarzik> it's wonderfully named to invoke confusion with sleep()
 812 2013-02-07 18:13:37 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: the odd thing is, it's never returning in this case
 813 2013-02-07 18:13:48 <jgarzik> maybe it's sleeping
 814 2013-02-07 18:13:57 <Luke-Jr> it is :P
 815 2013-02-07 18:14:01 <Luke-Jr> lots of nanosleep calls
 816 2013-02-07 18:14:12 benkay has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 817 2013-02-07 18:14:21 <Luke-Jr> I wonder if at all related to Linux's OOM killer malfunctioning badly
 818 2013-02-07 18:15:41 <moarrr> OOM?
 819 2013-02-07 18:16:11 <Luke-Jr> out-of-memory
 820 2013-02-07 18:16:13 <kinlo> uhmz, quick question: which version of ubuntu should I install?
 821 2013-02-07 18:16:16 <Luke-Jr> despite that it's never out-of-memory for real
 822 2013-02-07 18:16:37 <kinlo> is latest lts 64bit ok?
 823 2013-02-07 18:16:51 <Luke-Jr> kinlo: if I had to use Ubuntu, I'd for for the LTS
 824 2013-02-07 18:17:27 <kinlo> Luke-Jr: I'm asking for running gitian
 825 2013-02-07 18:17:46 <Luke-Jr> oh, you want 64-bit for that
 826 2013-02-07 18:17:48 CodeShark has joined
 827 2013-02-07 18:17:56 <kinlo> but version doesn't matter?
 828 2013-02-07 18:18:06 ielo has joined
 829 2013-02-07 18:18:08 <Luke-Jr> I don't *think* so
 830 2013-02-07 18:18:12 <Luke-Jr> it shouldn't
 831 2013-02-07 18:19:01 stejin has joined
 832 2013-02-07 18:19:02 <kinlo> ok, downloading 12.10 lts desktop 64 bit then
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 860 2013-02-07 19:16:10 <Diablo-D3> heh
 861 2013-02-07 19:16:17 <Diablo-D3> on the eve of asic destruction
 862 2013-02-07 19:16:24 <Diablo-D3> I made DiabloMiner's GPU mining faster
 863 2013-02-07 19:32:27 CodeShark has joined
 864 2013-02-07 19:32:57 <kinlo> gavinandresen: is there a procedure like gitian to build mac clients?
 865 2013-02-07 19:33:10 <gavinandresen> kinlo: no
 866 2013-02-07 19:33:21 <kinlo> gavinandresen: so you build them manually?
 867 2013-02-07 19:33:34 <gavinandresen> yes
 868 2013-02-07 19:33:52 <moore> Luke-Jr, with your OOM issues are you on a multi processor ( not just multi core ) system
 869 2013-02-07 19:33:55 <gavinandresen> kinlo: see doc/build_process.txt for details
 870 2013-02-07 19:33:58 <kinlo> gavinandresen: so far, the gitian instructions are perfectly clear and rather easy btw...
 871 2013-02-07 19:34:20 <gavinandresen> kinlo: great!
 872 2013-02-07 19:34:26 <kinlo> gavinandresen: it's now building the base vm's, I'll probably have a binary build in an hour (it's an old laptop!)
 873 2013-02-07 19:35:41 <kinlo> gavinandresen: so how can I help, build the binaries from time to time whenever you ask?  I can do that...
 874 2013-02-07 19:36:15 ThomasV has joined
 875 2013-02-07 19:37:05 <gavinandresen> kinlo: yes; and clone the https://github.com/bitcoin/gitian.sigs   repo, then add your gpg-signed build.assert / build.assert.sig files and submit a pull request so everybody can see "kinlo also built this and got the same result"
 876 2013-02-07 19:38:05 <gavinandresen> kinlo: if you're starting from scratch, it will take you much longer than an hour to compile all dependencies and then compile bitcoin on an old laptop
 877 2013-02-07 19:39:07 <kinlo> I have time
 878 2013-02-07 19:39:12 <kinlo> well, my laptop has time :p
 879 2013-02-07 19:40:29 <Luke-Jr> moore: I'm not even sure how to determine that. /proc/cpuinfo shows 8 cores total
 880 2013-02-07 19:41:48 <moore> the "physical id" tells you I think
 881 2013-02-07 19:43:26 <Luke-Jr> moore: all physical id 0, but I'm not aware of any 8-core CPUs :x
 882 2013-02-07 19:44:01 <moore> it is a four core 8 thread cpu probably
 883 2013-02-07 19:44:16 <Luke-Jr> aha, that sounds likely
 884 2013-02-07 19:44:28 <Diablo-D3> amd's doesnt quality to be called just 8 thread
 885 2013-02-07 19:44:46 <moore> I asked about the number of processes because numa causes strange memmory issues
 886 2013-02-07 19:44:54 <Diablo-D3> it has 8 cores worth of integer alus, 4 cores worth of fp alus
 887 2013-02-07 19:45:08 <moore> where you can run out of memory on one processer module but not the other
 888 2013-02-07 19:45:21 <Diablo-D3> moore: yeah, but where are you going to find a numa box here?
 889 2013-02-07 19:45:26 <moore> so you think like WTF why am I swaping with only half my memory used
 890 2013-02-07 19:45:37 <Luke-Jr> moore: this system isn't even swapping..
 891 2013-02-07 19:45:40 <moore> when really it bacause you have run out on a core
 892 2013-02-07 19:45:52 <Luke-Jr> Mem:  24689104k total, 17410300k used,  7278804k free,   119216k buffers
 893 2013-02-07 19:45:54 <Luke-Jr> Swap:  2097144k total,  1955024k used,   142120k free, 11434056k cached
 894 2013-02-07 19:45:58 <Luke-Jr> 11 GB cached
 895 2013-02-07 19:46:06 <Diablo-D3> Luke-Jr: ...
 896 2013-02-07 19:46:07 <moore> I have tons of NUMA boxes
 897 2013-02-07 19:46:16 <Diablo-D3> moore: wwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
 898 2013-02-07 19:46:21 <moore> any multi processer box is one
 899 2013-02-07 19:46:22 <Diablo-D3> thats such a waste of hardware
 900 2013-02-07 19:46:26 <Diablo-D3> bullshit.
 901 2013-02-07 19:46:33 <Luke-Jr> Diablo-D3: ... what?
 902 2013-02-07 19:46:38 <Diablo-D3> multi-socket boxes are not numa.
 903 2013-02-07 19:46:45 <moore> yes they are
 904 2013-02-07 19:46:50 <Diablo-D3> nope, they are not.
 905 2013-02-07 19:47:05 <moore> um I am sory to say you don't know what you are talking about
 906 2013-02-07 19:47:07 <Diablo-D3> they may be numa-like when you have multiple banks
 907 2013-02-07 19:47:13 <Diablo-D3> but they are not numa.
 908 2013-02-07 19:47:20 andytoshi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 909 2013-02-07 19:47:28 <moore> you have the wrong deffinition of NUMA I think
 910 2013-02-07 19:47:37 <Diablo-D3> numa means non-uniform memory architecture.
 911 2013-02-07 19:47:39 <Diablo-D3> look it up.
 912 2013-02-07 19:47:42 <moore> yess
 913 2013-02-07 19:47:46 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: Are you narrowly defining NUMA again to mean something specific that exists only on the first machine it ever existed on?
 914 2013-02-07 19:47:53 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: nope
 915 2013-02-07 19:47:58 <Luke-Jr> lol
 916 2013-02-07 19:48:22 <moore> and when you have non uniforme access to memory like in a multi socket system it is nonuniform
 917 2013-02-07 19:48:24 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: Okay, this is the part where you tell us what *is* NUMA, or provide an example of a NUMA machine so we know what you're talking about. :)
 918 2013-02-07 19:48:39 <Diablo-D3> moore: thats the problem, it IS uniform
 919 2013-02-07 19:49:03 <moore> I suppose by some definitions
 920 2013-02-07 19:49:09 <Diablo-D3> even when you have multiple banks in the same machine, its still uniform access
 921 2013-02-07 19:49:15 <moore> but not the one the linux kernel uses
 922 2013-02-07 19:49:40 <Diablo-D3> dont confuse core hierarchy code in the kernel with numa
 923 2013-02-07 19:50:14 <Diablo-D3> situations with cache non-locality != numa
 924 2013-02-07 19:50:23 <moore> when revering to numa in the linux kernel people are talking about multi socket systmems with sepreat memery controlers per socket
 925 2013-02-07 19:50:38 <moore> ok
 926 2013-02-07 19:50:40 <HM> Numa numa
 927 2013-02-07 19:51:05 <HM> ma-ia-hii, ma-ia-huu, ma-ia-hoo
 928 2013-02-07 19:51:10 <Diablo-D3> moore: except they're not.
 929 2013-02-07 19:51:59 andytoshi has joined
 930 2013-02-07 19:52:07 <HM> http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/vm/numa
 931 2013-02-07 19:52:15 <HM> that's the kernels take on it
 932 2013-02-07 19:52:18 <Diablo-D3> moore: numa requires that some system memory cannot be ever accessed by other cpus in the system
 933 2013-02-07 19:52:30 <Diablo-D3> multi-socket machines never have that problem
 934 2013-02-07 19:53:05 <moore> well that is how it is
 935 2013-02-07 19:53:16 <midnightmagic> How is it non-uniform when it's inaccessible?
 936 2013-02-07 19:53:19 <moore> you can copy cache lines but not address the memory directly
 937 2013-02-07 19:53:31 <moore> I am done with this argument as it is pointless
 938 2013-02-07 19:53:44 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: you require a different method of access, usually involving slow page copying over whatever external bus network you use
 939 2013-02-07 19:54:12 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: Like HT?
 940 2013-02-07 19:54:35 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: if you're on an AMD machine, yeah, external HT
 941 2013-02-07 19:55:20 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: So if I have a multi-socket Opteron machine, and each CPU has to ask other CPU for their memory, when they want to access another CPU's memory, is that NUMA by your definition?
 942 2013-02-07 19:55:26 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: nope
 943 2013-02-07 19:55:35 <Diablo-D3> because you have no HT bridges to _other machines_
 944 2013-02-07 19:55:59 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: also, memory controllers on multi-socket AMD machines k8 and up act in parallel
 945 2013-02-07 19:56:09 mmoya_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 946 2013-02-07 19:56:10 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: Whereby do you come upon this definition?
 947 2013-02-07 19:56:23 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: ? its always been defined that way
 948 2013-02-07 19:56:34 <Diablo-D3> NUMA is something used to build some supercomputers
 949 2013-02-07 19:56:47 <midnightmagic> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Uniform_Memory_Access  you should fix this article then.
 950 2013-02-07 19:56:55 <gavinandresen> frickin frackin gitian…..
 951 2013-02-07 19:57:03 <HM> People like to put labels on systems that are always changing.
 952 2013-02-07 19:57:06 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: nothing in that article is wrong
 953 2013-02-07 19:57:07 <midnightmagic> And you might want to tell Linus that he's using the term incorrectly. :)
 954 2013-02-07 19:57:31 mmoya has joined
 955 2013-02-07 19:58:28 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: If it takes longer for an Opteron to access its sibling's memory banks than it does to access its own, and there are separately-configured physical banks of RAM which are most-directly handled by individual sockets, would this hypothetical machine I am describing in this line satisfy your definition of NUMA?
 956 2013-02-07 19:58:51 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: nope.
 957 2013-02-07 19:59:06 <moore> Diablo-D3, are you trolling?
 958 2013-02-07 19:59:38 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: Then how is this line from the Wikipedia article *not* incorrect "Under NUMA, a processor can access its own local memory faster than non-local memory (memory local to another processor or memory shared between processors)."
 959 2013-02-07 19:59:55 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: because it doesnt define processor, or assume single socket machines
 960 2013-02-07 20:00:04 <Diablo-D3> * or it assumes
 961 2013-02-07 20:00:26 <HM> Memory access isn't uniform on single socket machines, even if you disregard all CPU caches
 962 2013-02-07 20:00:33 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I got my laptop to do a gitian re-build.  Linux build matches… Windows doesn't
 963 2013-02-07 20:00:33 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: what you described with your hypothetical machine is still local.
 964 2013-02-07 20:00:43 Descry has joined
 965 2013-02-07 20:00:46 <midnightmagic> Right, all it says is "local". Are you saying that the individual memory banks that each socket in a multi-socket opteron, controls with each its own memory controllers, are all local to all sockets?
 966 2013-02-07 20:00:55 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: yes.
 967 2013-02-07 20:01:10 Descry has quit (Client Quit)
 968 2013-02-07 20:01:19 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: for one, cores arent wired into memory controllers, they send standard htx messages to memory controllers
 969 2013-02-07 20:01:32 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: all memory controllers are local to all other sockets in that machine
 970 2013-02-07 20:02:01 da2ce7_d has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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 972 2013-02-07 20:02:31 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: Then the speed of access of memory is not enough to satisfy your definition, regardless of the fact that it is different depending on whether a socketed (potentially multicore) processor is accessing the memory controlled by itself or one of its sibling socketed processors.
 973 2013-02-07 20:02:40 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: some 8 socket opteron machines MAY qualify as NUMA depending on how Linux ends up viewing it
 974 2013-02-07 20:02:50 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: And that line in English in that wikipedia article must be corrected.
 975 2013-02-07 20:03:07 PhantomSpark has joined
 976 2013-02-07 20:03:13 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: you're claiming its slower to access sibling memory, its not
 977 2013-02-07 20:03:19 freakazoid has joined
 978 2013-02-07 20:03:53 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: Whereby do you come by the data you are basing your conclusion on?
 979 2013-02-07 20:04:47 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: lets say you have a 4 socket opteron box, its not uncommon to have multiple htx connections, one to each other socket, and aggregate bandwidth of the connections exceeds total system memory banwidth
 980 2013-02-07 20:04:54 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: years and years of reading.
 981 2013-02-07 20:05:30 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: Say there were data which showed that memory local to a processor were quicker to access than a sibling. Would this not falsify your claim?
 982 2013-02-07 20:05:37 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: nope
 983 2013-02-07 20:05:43 <Diablo-D3> because when I say slower, I mean magnitudes
 984 2013-02-07 20:06:11 <Diablo-D3> this is why dealing with NUMA is such a pain in the ass
 985 2013-02-07 20:06:21 <Diablo-D3> dragging in pages from somewhere else is really fucking slow
 986 2013-02-07 20:07:31 <Diablo-D3> any form of synchronization is slow, and a lot of people dont even bother with threads, they just spawn multiple processes and use async messaging
 987 2013-02-07 20:07:41 <Diablo-D3> and at that point, you dont even need NUMA, just build a standard cluster
 988 2013-02-07 20:07:44 <midnightmagic> I've never encountered a single definition, or use, of the term NUMA, anywhere, that had a specific threshold of latency over which a machine could be classified as NUMA, and under which it could not.
 989 2013-02-07 20:08:04 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: because you're trying to shoehorn multisocket machines into numa
 990 2013-02-07 20:08:10 <midnightmagic> I would love to know what, specifically, your threshold is.
 991 2013-02-07 20:08:10 <Diablo-D3> do you have one box? yes? its not numa.
 992 2013-02-07 20:08:56 daybyter has joined
 993 2013-02-07 20:09:25 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: like, install numa utils on linux, and run numastat
 994 2013-02-07 20:09:37 <Diablo-D3> if it says you have more than one node, linux thinks its numa.
 995 2013-02-07 20:10:05 LargoG has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 996 2013-02-07 20:10:34 LargoG has joined
 997 2013-02-07 20:11:05 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: From where do you achieve authority for making this claim? More specifically, who would agree with you that what Linux calls NUMA is not, in fact, NUMA?
 998 2013-02-07 20:11:21 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: Or is this one of your pet peeves and everyone else is doing it wrong?
 999 2013-02-07 20:11:36 <HM> they're all the same concept
1000 2013-02-07 20:11:38 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: very rarely does anyone try to claim multisocket is numa
1001 2013-02-07 20:11:43 <HM> what is called what doesn't matter
1002 2013-02-07 20:11:45 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: Also, you haven't answered me how much latency qualifies for the moniker NUMA.
1003 2013-02-07 20:12:02 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: I did answert that
1004 2013-02-07 20:12:04 <HM> please stop arguing
1005 2013-02-07 20:12:29 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: you're trying to shoehorn multisocket into numa, and I said until you have multiple boxes its not numa.
1006 2013-02-07 20:12:51 <midnightmagic> You said orders of magnitude of latency initially.
1007 2013-02-07 20:13:10 <Diablo-D3> yes, I said it _is_ magnitudes
1008 2013-02-07 20:13:48 <Diablo-D3> its not a requirement, but until quantum physics fixes the problem of reality, I dont see how you're going to beat that
1009 2013-02-07 20:14:30 <gmaxwell> Man, Bitcoin sure is great. Remember bitcoin?
1010 2013-02-07 20:14:52 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: ever see numa opteron hardware?
1011 2013-02-07 20:15:06 <HM> gmaxwell: tell me about this thing you call 'bitcoin'
1012 2013-02-07 20:15:46 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: you have special mobos with htx slots (they physically use a pci-e x16 slot thats turned around 180), then have these dummy bridge cards that plug into them, and then you connect all your boxes to an htx switch
1013 2013-02-07 20:15:47 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: .. I'm fairly certain AMD calls multi-socket machines NUMA. developer.amd.com/wordpress/media/2012/10/51803A_OpteronLinuxTuningGuide_SCREEN.pdf
1014 2013-02-07 20:16:10 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: make that clickable
1015 2013-02-07 20:16:14 <Diablo-D3> and it'd be very unfortunate if they did
1016 2013-02-07 20:16:24 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: http://developer.amd.com/wordpress/media/2012/10/51803A_OpteronLinuxTuningGuide_SCREEN.pdf
1017 2013-02-07 20:16:30 <midnightmagic> Unfortunate for whom?
1018 2013-02-07 20:16:56 <Diablo-D3> for them
1019 2013-02-07 20:16:59 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: YHBTYHLHAND
1020 2013-02-07 20:17:05 <Diablo-D3> also, nothing in there says they consider their stuff numa
1021 2013-02-07 20:17:11 <Diablo-D3> whats in there is how to use numa on numa-enabled machines
1022 2013-02-07 20:17:31 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: Actually, they are referring to 2P machines, which means 2-processor machines.
1023 2013-02-07 20:17:58 <Diablo-D3> bash> numactl --hardware
1024 2013-02-07 20:17:58 <Diablo-D3> available: 4 nodes (0-3)
1025 2013-02-07 20:17:58 <Diablo-D3> node 0 cpus: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
1026 2013-02-07 20:17:58 <Diablo-D3> node 0 size:
1027 2013-02-07 20:17:58 <Diablo-D3> 16382 MB
1028 2013-02-07 20:17:58 <Diablo-D3> node 0 free:
1029 2013-02-07 20:18:00 <Diablo-D3> 14730 MB
1030 2013-02-07 20:18:02 <Diablo-D3> node 1 cpus: 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
1031 2013-02-07 20:18:04 <Diablo-D3> node 1 size:
1032 2013-02-07 20:18:06 <Diablo-D3> 16384 MB
1033 2013-02-07 20:18:08 <Diablo-D3> node 1 free:
1034 2013-02-07 20:18:10 <Diablo-D3> 15539 MB
1035 2013-02-07 20:18:12 <Diablo-D3> node 2 cpus: 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
1036 2013-02-07 20:18:14 <Diablo-D3> node 2 size:
1037 2013-02-07 20:18:16 <Diablo-D3> 16384 MB
1038 2013-02-07 20:18:20 <Diablo-D3> node 2 free:
1039 2013-02-07 20:18:22 <Diablo-D3> 13467 MB
1040 2013-02-07 20:18:24 <Diablo-D3> node 3 cpus: 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31
1041 2013-02-07 20:18:25 <midnightmagic> stop that. a reference will do.
1042 2013-02-07 20:18:26 <Diablo-D3> node 3 size:
1043 2013-02-07 20:18:28 <Diablo-D3> 16368 MB
1044 2013-02-07 20:18:30 <Diablo-D3> node 3 free:
1045 2013-02-07 20:18:32 <Diablo-D3> 15401 MB
1046 2013-02-07 20:18:34 <Diablo-D3> 4 cores per socket, 2 sockets per machine, 4 machines.
1047 2013-02-07 20:18:53 <Diablo-D3> man, pdfs can go fuck themselves
1048 2013-02-07 20:18:59 <Diablo-D3> why the fuck did it do that
1049 2013-02-07 20:21:11 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: anyhow, I think someone out there is telling people single machines qualify to be called numa
1050 2013-02-07 20:21:25 <midnightmagic> Yeah, if you're serious, and you're doing a good job of pretending to be serious if you aren't, I don't see a single shred of supporting evidence that anyone else is making the same distinctions you are.
1051 2013-02-07 20:21:30 <Diablo-D3> moore isnt the first person Ive met to make the claim
1052 2013-02-07 20:21:52 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: dude, you just found a pdf from amd that further proves my position
1053 2013-02-07 20:21:54 <midnightmagic> Also, that's not what the PDF says.
1054 2013-02-07 20:22:15 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
1055 2013-02-07 20:22:22 <Diablo-D3> thats exactly what the pdf says
1056 2013-02-07 20:24:26 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1057 2013-02-07 20:25:00 <gmaxwell> I figure that this is more effective than telling him that he's wrong— yet again.
1058 2013-02-07 20:25:10 <phantomcircuit> wat
1059 2013-02-07 20:26:10 <andytoshi> i second "wat"
1060 2013-02-07 20:26:20 <HM> I'm glad I'm always wrong and know it, so nobody has to tell me :)
1061 2013-02-07 20:27:13 <andytoshi> HM: eventually you'll start being right ~50% of the time, and that's when things get dangerous
1062 2013-02-07 20:27:22 <andytoshi> ;)
1063 2013-02-07 20:32:25 <Eliel> That's a lot of text arguing about the meaning of one word :)
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1077 2013-02-07 20:52:19 <moore> Eliel, actually it is four words, one acronym :)
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1080 2013-02-07 20:55:58 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: wait...your linux build matches your original linux build, but windows doesnt?
1081 2013-02-07 20:56:25 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: yes.
1082 2013-02-07 20:56:29 <gavinandresen> :(
1083 2013-02-07 20:56:32 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: open the bitcoin-qt help page (or wherever it is) and look for the compiler version
1084 2013-02-07 20:56:47 <BlueMatt> I found it with a hex diff last night, but i thought it was in the help page
1085 2013-02-07 20:57:04 <gavinandresen> compiler version of the Linux bitcoin-qt ?
1086 2013-02-07 20:57:27 <BlueMatt> yea
1087 2013-02-07 20:57:39 <gavinandresen> one sec, gotta start the VM
1088 2013-02-07 20:57:48 <BlueMatt> you should be able to see it if you open the binary
1089 2013-02-07 20:58:03 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1090 2013-02-07 20:58:06 <gavinandresen> what do you mean, "open the binary" ?
1091 2013-02-07 20:58:08 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: booting my gitian vm now..
1092 2013-02-07 20:58:18 <BlueMatt> ie run bitcoin-qt and click help -> about
1093 2013-02-07 20:58:19 <BlueMatt> ?
1094 2013-02-07 20:58:26 <gavinandresen> ah, right
1095 2013-02-07 20:58:41 <gavinandresen> I thought you meant open with a hex editor or something
1096 2013-02-07 20:58:47 <BlueMatt> well that works too
1097 2013-02-07 20:58:58 <BlueMatt> but thats easier if you have something to diff against
1098 2013-02-07 20:59:36 <Luke-Jr> did we have any dependency changes for 0.8?
1099 2013-02-07 20:59:43 <BlueMatt> dont think so
1100 2013-02-07 21:00:03 * Luke-Jr wishes gitian told up front <.<
1101 2013-02-07 21:00:15 <BlueMatt> we change version numbers when that happens, no?
1102 2013-02-07 21:00:24 <BlueMatt> so it does tell you up front ;)
1103 2013-02-07 21:00:34 bitafterbit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1104 2013-02-07 21:01:46 <gavinandresen> Help->About bitcoin just tells me v0.8.0rc1-beta
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1106 2013-02-07 21:01:54 <BlueMatt> awww, alright hex editor :)
1107 2013-02-07 21:02:02 <BlueMatt> you should be able to just find gcc-4.
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1111 2013-02-07 21:04:13 <gavinandresen> mmm… not working:  strings -n 3 bitcoin-qt | grep gcc    just gets me libgcc_s.s0.1
1112 2013-02-07 21:04:33 <BlueMatt> wtf?, I saw it in your binary last night when I was searching it
1113 2013-02-07 21:04:53 <HM> try "g++"
1114 2013-02-07 21:05:13 <gavinandresen> g++ gets me:   gggg++++
1115 2013-02-07 21:05:37 <Luke-Jr> grep -i ?
1116 2013-02-07 21:05:49 <gavinandresen> binaries are up on sourceforge if y'all want to try
1117 2013-02-07 21:06:08 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: capital GCC
1118 2013-02-07 21:06:31 <gavinandresen> ah:  GCC_3.0
1119 2013-02-07 21:06:39 <BlueMatt> heh, its 2 characters after that
1120 2013-02-07 21:06:52 <HM> gavinandresen: what are you trying to discover?
1121 2013-02-07 21:07:06 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: just open up your hex editor and search for GCC, youll find it 10 seconds later :)
1122 2013-02-07 21:07:10 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt thinks my gitian compiled with a different version of gcc
1123 2013-02-07 21:07:26 <gavinandresen> "my hex editor" …. what hex editor comes with Lucid?
1124 2013-02-07 21:07:32 <BlueMatt> ghex works well enough
1125 2013-02-07 21:07:36 <BlueMatt> package may be ghex2?
1126 2013-02-07 21:08:18 <gavinandresen> mmm… emacs works....
1127 2013-02-07 21:08:24 <BlueMatt> ok, that too
1128 2013-02-07 21:08:35 <HM> Okteta <3
1129 2013-02-07 21:08:57 <BlueMatt> lucid's default gcc (which gitian /should/ be using) is 4.4.3-1ubuntu1 http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/gcc
1130 2013-02-07 21:09:16 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I see three different GCC: (Ubuntu blah blah blah)'s in the binary
1131 2013-02-07 21:09:26 <BlueMatt> whats the version?
1132 2013-02-07 21:09:58 <gavinandresen> 4.4.3-4ubuntu5.1 and 4.4.2-1ubuntu4 and 4.4.3-4ubuntu5
1133 2013-02-07 21:10:03 <Luke-Jr> HM: :>
1134 2013-02-07 21:11:12 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: yea....umm....wtf?
1135 2013-02-07 21:11:24 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: what does dpkg -l | grep gcc tell you on the vm that gitian is using?
1136 2013-02-07 21:12:25 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: one sec, let me start THAT VM up...
1137 2013-02-07 21:13:08 Belkaar has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1138 2013-02-07 21:14:33 <BlueMatt> or...better yet, gcc -v
1139 2013-02-07 21:15:16 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: http://pastebin.com/RGJQ99zF
1140 2013-02-07 21:15:32 <BlueMatt> oh, tat is right
1141 2013-02-07 21:15:38 <BlueMatt> so...wtf?
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1143 2013-02-07 21:17:56 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: are you doing any of the code signing stuff for this rc?
1144 2013-02-07 21:18:36 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: yes, it would be good to test that.  But I won't code-sign until gitian is happy
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1146 2013-02-07 21:21:22 <kinlo> mmmz, gitial keeps failing on me.  Base vm ok,  building gives errors
1147 2013-02-07 21:21:32 <kinlo> ./bin/gbuild:21:in `system!': failed to run on-target -u root bash < target-bin/grab-packages.sh > var/base-lucid-i386.manifest (RuntimeError)
1148 2013-02-07 21:23:44 <gavinandresen> kinlo:  try running:   ssh -oConnectTimeout=60 -oNoHostAuthenticationForLocalhost=yes -i ./var/id_dsa -p 2223 ubuntu@localhost  ls
1149 2013-02-07 21:24:05 <gavinandresen> … and if that fails, run with -v and see if it can connect at all
1150 2013-02-07 21:24:05 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: I dont get it...my output has 2 small differences, one seemingly arbitrary (Im too lazy to do big dumps) and one in that segment.  Now that i read it more closely, its swapping out the second and last entries...
1151 2013-02-07 21:24:15 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: did you use lxc or kvm?
1152 2013-02-07 21:24:21 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: kvm
1153 2013-02-07 21:24:45 <BlueMatt> well...I dont get it, mine never seem to match anymore :( oh well
1154 2013-02-07 21:24:53 <BlueMatt> you can just delete my sigs if you get others that match
1155 2013-02-07 21:24:55 <kinlo> that works from the second time, first time seemed to timeout (I ctrl-c'ed)
1156 2013-02-07 21:25:08 <kinlo> let me retry the command once more
1157 2013-02-07 21:25:27 <gavinandresen> kinlo: I had trouble with the timeout on my underpowered laptop.  You can modify libexec/on_target  to give it a big ssh timeout
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1160 2013-02-07 21:35:33 <Luke-Jr> 6761ee95da86c1eb354ca7858b49061f0a39702a3d7ec6fe1b91140e329c7590
1161 2013-02-07 21:35:55 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: you didn't build/push sigs for win32?
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1163 2013-02-07 21:39:07 <kinlo> gavinandresen: that seems to solve it, it is now building
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1165 2013-02-07 21:40:15 <gavinandresen> kinlo: tail -f var/install.log     or   var/build.log   is very useful to see what is actually happening
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1169 2013-02-07 21:42:25 <kinlo> yeah, found that already...
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1171 2013-02-07 21:43:09 <kinlo> gavinandresen: which one do you need now?  0.8.0rc1?  I'm just building 0.7.2 as a test atm
1172 2013-02-07 21:43:59 <gavinandresen> kinlo: yes, 0.8.0rc1.  But 0.7.2 is a great test to see if your builds match ours
1173 2013-02-07 21:44:12 <kinlo> indeed
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1185 2013-02-07 22:15:09 <kinlo> ok, so my output file build-res.yml matches the bitcoin-build.assert from the repo.  So I guess I can build 0.8rc1 now
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1203 2013-02-07 22:40:03 <kinlo> hmmmz, do I need to clean between gitian builds somehow?  I build 0.8 but got the same hashes for 32 bit and 64 bit
1204 2013-02-07 22:40:48 <Aranjedeath> okay so my weird locale issues when building bitcoind on freebsd may have actually been boost related. there was a problem with the port.
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1207 2013-02-07 22:41:41 <moarrr> lol i thought you said, do I need to clean between genitals for a second
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1211 2013-02-07 22:48:46 <BlueMatt_> unc decided, in their infinite wisdom, to block my vps, so...I may be logged into irc but I wont see that for a while.....
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1231 2013-02-07 23:27:41 RBecker is now known as rbecker
1232 2013-02-07 23:32:19 nanotube is now known as bitcoin
1233 2013-02-07 23:32:23 bitcoin is now known as nanotube
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1241 2013-02-07 23:51:52 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
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