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16 2013-02-08 00:39:23 <kinlo> gavinandresen: pull request created, but the windows sigs will be tomorrow or later
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18 2013-02-08 00:40:30 <kinlo> gavinandresen: seems bluematt's sigs are kinda off, mine matches yours
19 2013-02-08 00:41:02 <gavinandresen> kinlo: best news I've had all day, thanks!
20 2013-02-08 00:41:34 <kinlo> you must have had a bad day then :)
21 2013-02-08 00:42:48 <gavinandresen> definitely not a great day, too much time spent learning about stuff I don't really want to know about.
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23 2013-02-08 00:46:56 <Luke-Jr> kinlo: interesting, mine don't match Gavin's :o
24 2013-02-08 00:47:01 * Luke-Jr pokes BlueMatt to push his win32 sig
25 2013-02-08 00:47:25 <kinlo> Luke-Jr: push your sigs then, only saw BlueMatt's and gavin's in github
26 2013-02-08 00:49:11 <Luke-Jr> kinlo: I only did win32 build
27 2013-02-08 00:49:26 <kinlo> ic
28 2013-02-08 00:50:01 <kinlo> well, I need to go to bed, and given the time I spent on the linux sigs, I cannot do those win32's today....
29 2013-02-08 00:50:03 <kinlo> afk :)
30 2013-02-08 00:50:05 <gavinandresen> win32 builds seems to be different for everybody for some reason. I wonder what changed....
31 2013-02-08 00:50:25 <Luke-Jr> :/
32 2013-02-08 00:50:50 <Luke-Jr> anyone have an old KVM-based pre-OVZ-support gitian to try with?
33 2013-02-08 00:51:00 <Luke-Jr> could be a bug in newer gitians maybe?
34 2013-02-08 00:51:02 <gavinandresen> what is OVZ?
35 2013-02-08 00:52:20 <Luke-Jr> OpenVZ - I meant LXC though
36 2013-02-08 00:52:28 <gavinandresen> ah, right...
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38 2013-02-08 00:53:03 <gavinandresen> I'm uploading a code-signed one-commit-after-rc1 OSX binary, then I'm done building releases for tonight
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59 2013-02-08 01:18:19 <MC1984> wallet.dat stores the last known balances of the privkeys it holds rigght?
60 2013-02-08 01:19:15 <MC1984> but its not essential they be updated, say if you like sending coins to an offline wallet you dont really need to update your backups all the time for that
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108 2013-02-08 04:05:52 <RylandAlmanza> Hey, anyone understand how I'm supposed to generate a genesis block?
109 2013-02-08 04:06:05 <RylandAlmanza> I have my scamcoin all ready
110 2013-02-08 04:06:17 <RylandAlmanza> Except for that genesis block
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123 2013-02-08 04:39:20 <BlueMatt_> hey, here's the party
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307 2013-02-08 04:46:41 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: delete my sigs from the repo if they are standing out
308 2013-02-08 04:46:51 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: Im pretty sure they do, so thats why my win32s arent there yet
309 2013-02-08 04:47:02 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: what's your win32 installer hash?
310 2013-02-08 04:47:17 <Luke-Jr> 6761ee95da86c1eb354ca7858b49061f0a39702a3d7ec6fe1b91140e329c7590 bitcoin-0.8.0-win32-setup.exe
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317 2013-02-08 04:48:23 <BlueMatt> 01e3f140ce4cf0dd6e6d75fddb65fca69acb115f56caba26258472c69720ebe2 bitcoin-0.8.0-win32-setup.exe
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321 2013-02-08 04:48:33 <Luke-Jr> oh well
322 2013-02-08 04:48:52 <Luke-Jr> seems gitian is falling apart :<
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324 2013-02-08 04:49:27 * BlueMatt blames a combination of differences between lxc and kvm, and my use of arch, which has really terrible/weird qemu/kvm packages
325 2013-02-08 04:49:34 <muhoo> sheesh, computers weres supposed to save labor, eh?
326 2013-02-08 04:49:51 <BlueMatt> but...yes, gitian has been very flaky for the past few releases
327 2013-02-08 04:50:12 DamascusVG has joined
328 2013-02-08 04:50:14 <BlueMatt> if anyone shows significant desire to ever merge auto-update, then it will need to be investigated
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340 2013-02-08 05:10:40 <muhoo> wait https://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/info/refs is 404?
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361 2013-02-08 06:03:42 <MC1984> was there ever proof that different dbcache values significantly affected chain download time?
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369 2013-02-08 06:19:57 <gmaxwell> MC1984: sure, it's obviously faster if you make the cache bigger than the whole database, for example.
370 2013-02-08 06:20:36 <Luke-Jr> ce99358 Remove IsFromMe() check in CTxMemPool::accept() <-- that was super-painful to backport :/
371 2013-02-08 06:20:43 <MC1984> which database, the chain or the index or something?
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373 2013-02-08 06:23:51 <gmaxwell> MC1984: *
374 2013-02-08 06:23:56 * jgarzik tries to recall why his eloipool solo mining failed
375 2013-02-08 06:24:19 <jgarzik> really just need to update pushpool to modern times
376 2013-02-08 06:24:23 <MC1984> what?
377 2013-02-08 06:24:25 <gmaxwell> MC1984: setting it to e.g. 4gb made it obviously faster.
378 2013-02-08 06:25:06 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: really with a gbt supporting miner there is no need to shim in a silly little private pool just to make things work.
379 2013-02-08 06:25:54 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: cgminer claims "GBT support" but not bitcoind's flavor
380 2013-02-08 06:26:29 antix_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
381 2013-02-08 06:28:41 <MC1984> anyone see my little q about the wallet above?
382 2013-02-08 06:33:06 antix_ has joined
383 2013-02-08 06:37:48 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: oh yeah. My miner was receiving '401 not authorized' errors from eloipool. Seemed quite strange, as the username is a btc address, and the password is <anything>
384 2013-02-08 06:37:56 <jgarzik> That's why eloipool failed for me.
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394 2013-02-08 07:16:03 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: that should only happen if the username casts to false O.o
395 2013-02-08 07:16:48 <Luke-Jr> maybe wireshark it?
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413 2013-02-08 08:04:04 <Guest59167> Hey guys, I'm looking to toy around with the client api. I want to run a lightweight client so that I dont have to download the entire blockchain. Any suggestions? Running on linux btw
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517 2013-02-08 12:09:11 <bitnumus> are there any Testnet web wallets?
518 2013-02-08 12:13:17 <SomeoneWeird> don't think so
519 2013-02-08 12:14:11 <zveda> hey is there a network limited on bitcoin-qt?
520 2013-02-08 12:14:14 <zveda> limiter
521 2013-02-08 12:14:17 <zveda> i wanna limit my upload speed
522 2013-02-08 12:14:29 <zveda> because my ISP here in aus is very stringy with upload
523 2013-02-08 12:14:34 <zveda> stingy
524 2013-02-08 12:16:35 sgornick has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
525 2013-02-08 12:17:04 Zarutian has joined
526 2013-02-08 12:17:04 <Scrat> if you're on linux, you can use tc to limit the entire interface or iptables to set a per port limit (not 100% sure of this tho)
527 2013-02-08 12:18:32 <Scrat> check your router. some routers can do traffic shaping in their QoS settings
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533 2013-02-08 12:39:05 <bitnumus> hmm, i rmember messing with testnet before and made a real hash of my bitoin-qt install
534 2013-02-08 12:39:13 <bitnumus> im sure someone has a web wallet for it
535 2013-02-08 12:39:19 <bitnumus> Luke-Jr,
536 2013-02-08 12:41:49 sgornick has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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545 2013-02-08 13:04:13 <HM> http://fmota.eu/blog/base64-fixed-point.html
546 2013-02-08 13:04:30 <HM> I just found the most awesome way to generate a bitcoin address :P
547 2013-02-08 13:05:24 daybyter has joined
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551 2013-02-08 13:06:41 <moarrr> HM: tl;dr ?
552 2013-02-08 13:07:01 Lolcust has joined
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554 2013-02-08 13:10:33 <HM> moarrr: repeatedly encoding any string as base64 results in the same output
555 2013-02-08 13:10:39 <HM> well the same prefix anyway
556 2013-02-08 13:11:10 <HM> it probably doesn't work for base58
557 2013-02-08 13:14:13 darkskiez has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
558 2013-02-08 13:14:50 <sipa> is rc1 tagged already?
559 2013-02-08 13:15:24 <Scrat> yes
560 2013-02-08 13:15:34 <Scrat> but they can't get gitian builds to match
561 2013-02-08 13:15:43 <SomeoneWeird> lollllll
562 2013-02-08 13:17:50 <Scrat> sup SomeoneWeird
563 2013-02-08 13:18:00 <SomeoneWeird> hai
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602 2013-02-08 14:50:14 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: is it possible that eloipool is passing 401 from bitcoind back to workers?
603 2013-02-08 15:01:33 CodeShark has joined
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607 2013-02-08 15:22:57 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: no, that shouldn't be possible
608 2013-02-08 15:23:08 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: if bitcoind is 401ing, I don't think it'd work at all
609 2013-02-08 15:23:16 <Luke-Jr> at least at startup
610 2013-02-08 15:23:30 <Luke-Jr> at runtime, it'd probably keep issuing work on the last successful template
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614 2013-02-08 15:32:23 <webuser3232> At some point of bitcoind development are you guys considering adding more api commands to what there's at present ... I'm thinking having this https://blockchain.info/api/blockchain_api would be sweet
615 2013-02-08 15:32:32 <webuser3232> ?
616 2013-02-08 15:32:50 <webuser3232> no need using 3rd services
617 2013-02-08 15:33:09 <webuser3232> 3rd party
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632 2013-02-08 16:09:49 <sipa> webuser3232: what rpc in particular would you need?
633 2013-02-08 16:12:43 rdymac has joined
634 2013-02-08 16:12:44 <webuser3232> sipa, http://blockchain.info/tx-index/$tx_index?format=json as it lets me extract 'from' address(es)
635 2013-02-08 16:15:31 <webuser3232> overview is under 'Single Transaction' here https://blockchain.info/api/blockchain_api
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639 2013-02-08 16:20:14 * HM jumps on webuser3232 like he's a live grenade
640 2013-02-08 16:20:23 <HM> don't say the f word!
641 2013-02-08 16:23:09 * webuser3232 is bamboozled
642 2013-02-08 16:23:22 <webuser3232> HM, what's wrong with the f word?
643 2013-02-08 16:24:01 MrTiggr has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
644 2013-02-08 16:24:04 <webuser3232> I think having this functionality in the client would be great
645 2013-02-08 16:24:49 <webuser3232> I can see many uses and not ncecessairly thinking satoshidice
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656 2013-02-08 16:43:18 <HM> webuser3232: i was schooled on from addresses the other day, apparently it's a bad idea generally
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661 2013-02-08 16:44:00 <webuser3232> HM, mind sharing the knowledge?
662 2013-02-08 16:44:27 <epscy> i would like to hear this too
663 2013-02-08 16:45:05 <HM> one sec
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669 2013-02-08 16:48:57 * HM sips his tea
670 2013-02-08 16:49:42 <HM> I wouldn't do the reasoning justice. I guess the simplest answer is that bitcoin transactions are designed to be valid based on the evaluation of some arbitrary script.
671 2013-02-08 16:50:10 Nicksasa has joined
672 2013-02-08 16:50:39 <HM> also you can't be certain that whoever sent you funds was acting directly and even knows their address
673 2013-02-08 16:50:48 <moarrr> :/
674 2013-02-08 16:51:01 <HM> Someone else can chime in an explain it more thoroughly
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676 2013-02-08 16:56:25 <webuser3232> yeah but the information is there so why don't make it easy to get out... all the excuses make it a little bit like trying to outsmart the users
677 2013-02-08 16:56:48 <gavinandresen> webuser3232 : you can get the list of all the prior transactions that went into a transaction using 'getrawtransaction'
678 2013-02-08 16:57:04 <gavinandresen> but assuming that one of those outputs belongs to the person who received the money in the transaction is a really bad idea.
679 2013-02-08 16:57:26 oqdnlfask is now known as artist
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681 2013-02-08 16:58:19 <gavinandresen> Your code will break horribly if, for example, somebody constructs a transaction that spends outputs that are not "addresses" that you understand
682 2013-02-08 16:58:45 artistformerlykn is now known as MC1984_
683 2013-02-08 16:59:13 <gavinandresen> It will also break for anybody sending from InstaWallet or Mt.Gox or most of the other shared-wallet services.
684 2013-02-08 17:00:03 <gavinandresen> And, I suspect soon, will break for transactions that combine multiple inputs from multiple users to enhance privacy and foil nosy people who want to know where your money is coming from.
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686 2013-02-08 17:00:48 <webuser3232> gavinandresen, but can't those things be worked out? this seems to me as an amazing functionality
687 2013-02-08 17:00:57 <gavinandresen> what is your use case?
688 2013-02-08 17:01:05 <phantomcircuit> inb4 gambling
689 2013-02-08 17:01:28 <webuser3232> not gambling
690 2013-02-08 17:01:48 <webuser3232> I'd like to not to ask users for returning address
691 2013-02-08 17:02:12 MC1984_ is now known as BLAZEIT420
692 2013-02-08 17:02:15 <gavinandresen> that's completely reasonable. But using information in the raw blockchain transaction isn't the right way to get that.
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694 2013-02-08 17:02:26 <gavinandresen> unfortunately, the right way isn't implemented yet...
695 2013-02-08 17:02:30 <HM> presumably if you want to know when a specific customer pays you, you need to generate a brand new wallet for each payment?
696 2013-02-08 17:02:40 <HM> to receive the funds
697 2013-02-08 17:02:41 <egecko> the sender would have to preallocate a return address and attach it somehow to the transaction, no?
698 2013-02-08 17:03:01 <gavinandresen> The right way is https://gist.github.com/gavinandresen/4120476
699 2013-02-08 17:03:02 <webuser3232> gavinandresen, so it's being considered then?
700 2013-02-08 17:03:34 <webuser3232> I guess at the moment it works for gambling etc with a small disclaimer about not using webwallets etc
701 2013-02-08 17:03:55 <gavinandresen> webuser3232: yes, as soon as 0.8 is wrapped up I hope to start writing code to implement the payment protocol
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703 2013-02-08 17:04:42 <webuser3232> well .. thank you for explaining it to me .. i like bitcoin even more now :)
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706 2013-02-08 17:04:56 <phantomcircuit> webuser3232, is this for simple retail sales?
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709 2013-02-08 17:05:49 <webuser3232> phantomcircuit, yes and also for some other ideas that has been multiplying in my head
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712 2013-02-08 17:06:48 <phantomcircuit> webuser3232, for retail sales i recommend bitpay they have already solved a lot of these kinds of problems
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717 2013-02-08 17:09:50 <webuser3232> phantomcircuit, thanks .. reatail is just one of the things i've been thinking off recently
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745 2013-02-08 17:31:35 <benkay> does anyone have experience building bitcoind from source on os x?
746 2013-02-08 17:31:55 <CodeShark> I do
747 2013-02-08 17:32:04 <benkay> would you heeeelp meeee pleeeease?
748 2013-02-08 17:32:14 <CodeShark> what version of OS X are you running?
749 2013-02-08 17:32:26 <benkay> 10.7
750 2013-02-08 17:32:58 <CodeShark> have you already tried the instructions per https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/build-osx.txt ?
751 2013-02-08 17:33:24 <benkay> negation. just became aware of.
752 2013-02-08 17:33:51 <benkay> thanks CodeShark
753 2013-02-08 17:33:56 <CodeShark> np
754 2013-02-08 17:34:07 <benkay> is there a karma bot in this channel?
755 2013-02-08 17:34:14 <jgarzik> what does the bitcoin network look like, to a Tor user?
756 2013-02-08 17:34:15 <benkay> 'caue CodeShark++
757 2013-02-08 17:34:35 <jgarzik> I presume bitcoind does not auto-bootstrap on Tor? You have to know at least one onion address to get going?
758 2013-02-08 17:34:50 LargoG has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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760 2013-02-08 17:35:01 <CodeShark> benkay, I also wrote a little config script
761 2013-02-08 17:35:02 * jgarzik also guesses that the total number of Tor nodes is rather low
762 2013-02-08 17:35:10 <CodeShark> that should check your dependencies on OS X
763 2013-02-08 17:35:10 <arij> how can i see if i am holding any pizzacoins :)
764 2013-02-08 17:35:21 webb has joined
765 2013-02-08 17:35:23 <jgarzik> hmmm, maybe Bitcoin Foundation should be on Tor
766 2013-02-08 17:35:50 <benkay> sweet! where can I get my hands on that?
767 2013-02-08 17:36:08 <CodeShark> https://github.com/CodeShark/bitcoin/blob/4c92791df5c96128e03834a8a1a52c07c2164cf5/src/configure
768 2013-02-08 17:36:17 <CodeShark> stick it inside the bitcoin/src directory and run it
769 2013-02-08 17:36:21 <benkay> kk
770 2013-02-08 17:36:36 <benkay> different, related question: how frequently do you have conflicts between macports and brew?
771 2013-02-08 17:37:00 <CodeShark> I don't really install too many packages on OS X
772 2013-02-08 17:37:14 <CodeShark> my main build environments are linux
773 2013-02-08 17:37:34 <benkay> i broke my linux partition :(
774 2013-02-08 17:37:35 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: dnsseeds serve tor addresses
775 2013-02-08 17:37:52 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I believe sipa's is set up to always return at least one tor address per request...or something like that
776 2013-02-08 17:38:01 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: oh, as what type of DNS record?
777 2013-02-08 17:38:09 <BlueMatt> ipv6
778 2013-02-08 17:38:17 <BlueMatt> using bitcoin's custom encoding iirc
779 2013-02-08 17:38:19 <jgarzik> interesting
780 2013-02-08 17:39:16 yinyang has joined
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782 2013-02-08 17:40:08 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, did it end up being custom? i thought it was the onioncat format which is base32
783 2013-02-08 17:40:10 <gmaxwell> 09:16 <@jgarzik> I presume bitcoind does not auto-bootstrap on Tor? You have to know at least one onion address to get going?
784 2013-02-08 17:40:17 <gmaxwell> we can bootstrap on tor fine using dnsseeds.
785 2013-02-08 17:40:25 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: thats entirely possible, I forget
786 2013-02-08 17:40:34 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: you're late
787 2013-02-08 17:41:11 <gmaxwell> sorry, FIFO.
788 2013-02-08 17:41:56 <gmaxwell> One piece that didn't get mentioned is that we can use dnsseeds even without making dns queries... so accessing the dnsseeds over tor works.
789 2013-02-08 17:42:41 <gmaxwell> well, sorta worksâ if it can't do the dns query it just connects to it... so it only gets the benefit of one result per dnsseed.
790 2013-02-08 17:43:07 <BlueMatt> couldnt we theoretically make a tcp dns query?
791 2013-02-08 17:45:39 <phantomcircuit> fd87:d87e:eb43
792 2013-02-08 17:45:43 <gmaxwell> We couldâ but we'd need to know DNS servers that accept tcp.
793 2013-02-08 17:45:46 <phantomcircuit> that looks like the onioncat prefix
794 2013-02-08 17:46:17 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: we use the onioncat prefix, yes.
795 2013-02-08 17:46:23 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: we know the dnsseed ns', we should be able to connect to those, no?
796 2013-02-08 17:46:26 <phantomcircuit> static const unsigned char pchOnionCat[] = {0xFD,0x87,0xD8,0x7E,0xEB,0x43};
797 2013-02-08 17:46:33 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: well, we'd need to add the dnsseed ns', but still
798 2013-02-08 17:46:37 <phantomcircuit> yeah in that case none of the dns seeds are returning those afaict
799 2013-02-08 17:46:57 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: then you end up potentially loading up the dnsseeds, defeating dns caching... ::meh::
800 2013-02-08 17:47:09 <phantomcircuit> also there's something wrong with sipa's dns seed
801 2013-02-08 17:47:21 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: hm?
802 2013-02-08 17:47:31 <phantomcircuit> host seed.bitcoin.sipa.be stalls after returning results followed by ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
803 2013-02-08 17:47:31 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: well I know mine and jgarzik's should handle it, I dunno what kind of bw sipa's seed can handle
804 2013-02-08 17:47:43 <phantomcircuit> so it's working but i dont think in the way it's supposed to
805 2013-02-08 17:47:45 <HM> you should look at telehash. it's designed to be a generic multi-application DHT for connecting nodes
806 2013-02-08 17:47:52 darkskiez has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
807 2013-02-08 17:48:01 <gmaxwell> ...
808 2013-02-08 17:48:15 <BlueMatt> ooooooo DHTs!
809 2013-02-08 17:48:22 <gavinandresen> uh oh
810 2013-02-08 17:48:34 <BlueMatt> lol
811 2013-02-08 17:48:35 <HM> did i step on another grenade?
812 2013-02-08 17:48:35 <phantomcircuit> generic MAGIC for connecting nodes
813 2013-02-08 17:48:41 <BlueMatt> HM: yes
814 2013-02-08 17:48:46 <phantomcircuit> HM, yeah right in the middle of it
815 2013-02-08 17:48:51 * HM thumbles with the pin
816 2013-02-08 17:49:00 <BlueMatt> HM: mentioning dhts on this chan is always...fun
817 2013-02-08 17:49:31 <phantomcircuit> the biggest problem is your peers are dirty filthy liars
818 2013-02-08 17:49:47 <gmaxwell> HM: it's sort of a joke here. Mostly in that I made an observation before the DHTs are a really frequent bad suggestion. (suggested to solve problems they don't actually help with) So it generates some snickers when they come up.
819 2013-02-08 17:50:24 <HM> isn't all peer exchange vulnerable to filthy liar syndrome?
820 2013-02-08 17:50:49 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I've almost got gitian building working using VirtualBox; I 98% sure I can make it work (but be pretty network-inefficient, because I'm not running anything like apt-cacher)
821 2013-02-08 17:50:52 <phantomcircuit> ultimately yes but to very very different extents
822 2013-02-08 17:50:57 <gmaxwell> HM: more specifically, to your particular pointâ I looked at telehash before and their solution to the bootstrapping problem is to consult a _single_ centeralized server.
823 2013-02-08 17:51:23 <HM> only because nobody is running telehash servers
824 2013-02-08 17:51:30 <gmaxwell> HM: DHTs get suggested for things far beyind peer exchange where its even less applicable too.
825 2013-02-08 17:51:38 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: hmm...yet another vm suite that will produce very slightly different results?
826 2013-02-08 17:51:52 darkskiez has joined
827 2013-02-08 17:51:56 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: seems like we need to do more digging on why everyone is getting different results first
828 2013-02-08 17:52:16 <HM> DNS bootstrap isn't exactly immune to fiddling
829 2013-02-08 17:52:18 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I just want to get rid of an old laptop on my desk
830 2013-02-08 17:52:32 <gmaxwell> HM: thats still not a solution to bootstrapping- as it still just reduces to having a list of servers in the software.... and we can already do that without shimming in yet another protocol: just list in a bunch of bitcoin nodes (and we already do)
831 2013-02-08 17:52:56 <HM> well a compiled in list seems like a bad idea
832 2013-02-08 17:53:00 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: ack, will be interesting to see if it produces identical results
833 2013-02-08 17:53:05 <HM> can't you at least put it in a file
834 2013-02-08 17:53:12 <gmaxwell> HM: thats how you must bootstrap telehash.
835 2013-02-08 17:53:17 <gmaxwell> HM: we have that too (addr.txt)
836 2013-02-08 17:53:52 <HM> the idea of telehash is so people have a server they use, like DNS. not that everyone goes to telehash.org
837 2013-02-08 17:54:13 <HM> i'm not saying it's perfect, just throwing it out there.
838 2013-02-08 17:54:33 <HM> there's room for improvement over mysterious IPs compiled in to my binary :P
839 2013-02-08 17:54:46 <gmaxwell> HM: we already do have improvement over that.
840 2013-02-08 17:54:48 <phantomcircuit> HM, bitcoind has a ton of bootstrap methods
841 2013-02-08 17:55:04 <gmaxwell> The static IP list is the last resort option when everything else fails.
842 2013-02-08 17:55:15 <phantomcircuit> compiled in ips, addr.txt, dnsseeds, irc (but dont do dat), addr.dat
843 2013-02-08 17:55:33 <phantomcircuit> bootstrap once and you're good
844 2013-02-08 17:55:53 <phantomcircuit> (well sort of that's a gross over simplification but is applicable to 99.99% of cases)
845 2013-02-08 17:56:22 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: you forgot addnode.
846 2013-02-08 17:56:34 <HM> right, i just don't like compiled in configuration period
847 2013-02-08 17:56:38 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, oh i did
848 2013-02-08 17:56:51 <phantomcircuit> HM, you have basically two options
849 2013-02-08 17:56:53 techlife has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
850 2013-02-08 17:57:04 <phantomcircuit> automatic connections and compiled in configurations
851 2013-02-08 17:57:15 <phantomcircuit> or the user has to supply a bootstrap method/peer
852 2013-02-08 17:57:27 <phantomcircuit> and there's no reason for that
853 2013-02-08 17:58:02 t7 has joined
854 2013-02-08 17:58:14 <gmaxwell> HM: so provide an addr.txt, it won't use the internal list unless nothing else works. ... but it's nice that you don't have to go put a whole bunch of extra files in place just to get bitcoin working.
855 2013-02-08 17:58:38 <HM> why not ditch the compiled in list and just ship all the compiled in IPs in a file?
856 2013-02-08 17:58:48 <HM> it's a lot more transparent
857 2013-02-08 17:59:48 <MC1984> lol someone mentioned DHTs again
858 2013-02-08 18:00:07 <amiller> did someone say DHT
859 2013-02-08 18:00:17 <MC1984> greg smash
860 2013-02-08 18:00:24 <amiller> moore, werd
861 2013-02-08 18:00:31 <gmaxwell> HM: because doing so wouldn't gain anythingâ the list is almost never used, it's about the least important thing in the source code, if having the source code isn't transparent enough to you then you shouldn't be running bitcoin at allâ and would make installs more failure prone.
862 2013-02-08 18:02:28 <HM> source code isn't transparent to most users
863 2013-02-08 18:02:37 <CodeShark> I sorta agree that the list shouldn't be hardcoded
864 2013-02-08 18:02:37 <HM> they install a binary package and they go on their way
865 2013-02-08 18:02:50 <CodeShark> it's not just about transparency
866 2013-02-08 18:03:03 <HM> even if you have the source and read the source, like me, i have no idea who those IPs belong to or why they were included
867 2013-02-08 18:03:11 Lolcust has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
868 2013-02-08 18:03:31 <gmaxwell> HM: you're falling into the shed painting trap.
869 2013-02-08 18:03:32 <CodeShark> it's just better design, IMHO :)
870 2013-02-08 18:03:57 <phantomcircuit> HM, im not sure anybody does at this point
871 2013-02-08 18:04:00 yinyang has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
872 2013-02-08 18:04:14 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, that's actually a good question, what are the hard coded ips? (not talking dnsseed)
873 2013-02-08 18:04:30 <gmaxwell> (in its most originally described form: You have a nuclear plant schemetic in front of you, and you're complaining about the color of the toolshed out behind it)
874 2013-02-08 18:04:45 <HM> how does port handling currently work btw?
875 2013-02-08 18:04:58 techlife has joined
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877 2013-02-08 18:05:04 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: see the git commit history. They're just dumps of high uptime nodes from sipa's seed. There is an extraction script that produces them.
878 2013-02-08 18:05:54 <CodeShark> another good reason for not hardcoding them is that users can update their lists without having to either recompile or download a new binary
879 2013-02-08 18:05:57 <HM> I need to look at the peer exchange code
880 2013-02-08 18:06:01 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: see contrib/seeds/makeseeds.py
881 2013-02-08 18:06:15 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: they can already do that.
882 2013-02-08 18:06:19 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: provide an addr.txt
883 2013-02-08 18:06:24 techlife has joined
884 2013-02-08 18:06:33 <CodeShark> gmaxwell, my point is that the addr.txt file should be sufficient
885 2013-02-08 18:06:38 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: the compiled in ones are only used as a last resort if the node has nothing else.
886 2013-02-08 18:07:11 <HM> feels unclean man -_-
887 2013-02-08 18:07:17 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: forcing the user to have an addr.txt in place means that just running the binary would be insufficient, you'd be forced to have an installer
888 2013-02-08 18:07:20 <CodeShark> if the user has nothing else, there could be an option to download an addr.txt file from a webserver
889 2013-02-08 18:07:25 <gmaxwell> ugh.
890 2013-02-08 18:07:35 <phantomcircuit> lol
891 2013-02-08 18:07:36 Cory has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
892 2013-02-08 18:07:42 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, give up
893 2013-02-08 18:07:43 <phantomcircuit> i did
894 2013-02-08 18:07:57 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: so then you hard code some centeralized @#$@# webserver into the source instead??? that most users will connect on first install... how is this better?
895 2013-02-08 18:08:21 <phantomcircuit> there's a web 2.0 joke in there somewhere
896 2013-02-08 18:09:25 <CodeShark> I guess in the end it doesn't really make a difference either way...you're right
897 2013-02-08 18:09:28 <phantomcircuit> i just got the best idea
898 2013-02-08 18:09:34 <phantomcircuit> lol this is gonna be hilarious
899 2013-02-08 18:09:36 <HM> eh
900 2013-02-08 18:09:43 <HM> you could still ship a default addr.txt with the binary
901 2013-02-08 18:10:03 <phantomcircuit> there's no installer
902 2013-02-08 18:10:13 <gmaxwell> HM: then you have to have an installer that gets run to copy it into place. So you've just made bitcoin harder to startup and more failure prone.. for what?
903 2013-02-08 18:10:17 <phantomcircuit> the default addr.txt would need to be compiled into the binary
904 2013-02-08 18:10:20 <phantomcircuit> ironic much
905 2013-02-08 18:10:23 <CodeShark> heh
906 2013-02-08 18:10:38 <HM> an installer like the one that installs bitcoin.exe you mean?
907 2013-02-08 18:10:50 <HM> i wonder where we'll get one of those ;)
908 2013-02-08 18:10:52 <CodeShark> actually, having the binary produce the addr.txt might not be such a terrible idea :)
909 2013-02-08 18:10:53 <gmaxwell> HM: Windows has an installer. Other platforms do not.
910 2013-02-08 18:11:18 <HM> they have package managers...which install files derived from the source distribution :/
911 2013-02-08 18:11:19 <CodeShark> doesn't solve the need to compile it in...but it makes the list more visible and the method for adding nodes more consistent
912 2013-02-08 18:11:36 <gmaxwell> holy shit, stop with the shed painting. There are far more important things to worry about.. in your effort to fix something which is harmless because it doesn't appeal to some technical-asthetic you're making really bad suggestions that would crap on the privacy of bitcoin users (go fetch it from a webserver? come on!), or make it more likely to not work for people, or to fail in inexplicable ways
913 2013-02-08 18:12:05 Lolcust has joined
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915 2013-02-08 18:12:08 <HM> okay, jees. no need to get passionate about it
916 2013-02-08 18:12:14 <CodeShark> gmaxwell, there are people willing to work on these kinds of things without getting paid at all
917 2013-02-08 18:12:15 <gmaxwell> I will kill you all.
918 2013-02-08 18:12:17 <gmaxwell> :P
919 2013-02-08 18:12:34 <CodeShark> if you were writing our paychecks you'd be far more in a position to complain about us wasting time on it :p
920 2013-02-08 18:12:55 <phantomcircuit> HM, you're wrong, it's that simple
921 2013-02-08 18:13:00 <phantomcircuit> next subject
922 2013-02-08 18:13:15 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: I am paying you with my attention right nowâ and spending time saving you time from wasting in on really horrible non-starter ideas. :)
923 2013-02-08 18:13:16 <HM> right
924 2013-02-08 18:13:24 <phantomcircuit> maybe one of the dnsseeds should always return a tor node
925 2013-02-08 18:13:50 <CodeShark> gmaxwell: for the record, I wasn't the one volunteering to write this feature :p
926 2013-02-08 18:13:57 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: you don't actually need tor nodes to bootstrap tor mode... since even a tor only node can still exit to the v4 network.
927 2013-02-08 18:14:12 Cory has joined
928 2013-02-08 18:14:21 <CodeShark> gmaxwell: FWIW, I've got things that are much higher priority on my list than this
929 2013-02-08 18:14:21 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, this is true... but exit nodes are much slower than hidden service connections
930 2013-02-08 18:14:36 <phantomcircuit> then why are you here???????
931 2013-02-08 18:14:38 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: I know. :)
932 2013-02-08 18:15:15 <HM> So if you want to block bitcoin right now
933 2013-02-08 18:15:27 <gmaxwell> I think you're all over estimating how that list is used. I wouldn't at all be surprised if there is not a single node with current software currently running who has used the internal list.
934 2013-02-08 18:15:30 <CodeShark> phantomcircuit: much higher priority than implementing that particular feature
935 2013-02-08 18:15:41 <CodeShark> like cleaning up code dependencies and adding multiple wallet support
936 2013-02-08 18:15:47 <HM> block the irc channel, dick the DNS records hard coded in to bitcoind, and block the IP list hard coded in bitcoind....now you can't bootstrap without an addr.txt file
937 2013-02-08 18:15:53 <HM> that seems trivial
938 2013-02-08 18:15:55 <phantomcircuit> horray for multi wallet support
939 2013-02-08 18:15:58 <phantomcircuit> HORRAAAYYY
940 2013-02-08 18:16:07 <phantomcircuit> (not sarcastically)
941 2013-02-08 18:16:35 <phantomcircuit> HM, all of those things are in different jurisdictions
942 2013-02-08 18:16:49 <gmaxwell> HM: and your point is?
943 2013-02-08 18:16:51 <phantomcircuit> to do that would require the coordinated efforts of about 12 countries
944 2013-02-08 18:16:58 <phantomcircuit> much easier to just block port 8333
945 2013-02-08 18:17:03 <gmaxwell> (without an addr.txt or adding a single addnode, or proxying to tor)
946 2013-02-08 18:17:21 <HM> maybe, i'm just saying if Comcast wanted to be evil and block bitcoin they could do so a lot easier because of these hardcoded behaviors. No protocol or port based filtering
947 2013-02-08 18:17:30 <gmaxwell> HM: yes, and?
948 2013-02-08 18:17:43 <benkay> CodeShark++ everything compiled
949 2013-02-08 18:17:45 <gmaxwell> HM: no DHT system solves that in the _slighest_
950 2013-02-08 18:17:46 <benkay> <3
951 2013-02-08 18:17:50 <phantomcircuit> the bitcoin protocol isn't designed at all to be censorship resistent
952 2013-02-08 18:18:00 <HM> the same goes for anyone who wanted to snoop on ISP bitcoin transactions. presumably if you control bootstrap you control the channels people connect to the network
953 2013-02-08 18:18:01 <phantomcircuit> it would actually be totally trivial to filter
954 2013-02-08 18:18:11 <HM> i know this
955 2013-02-08 18:18:17 <gmaxwell> we have better bootstrapping than any other piece of p2p software I could findâ and I went and looked because I wanted better ones, only to find that we were already the best.
956 2013-02-08 18:18:38 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, the only improvement i could think of would be random ip scanning
957 2013-02-08 18:18:42 <gmaxwell> 'you control the channels' channels?
958 2013-02-08 18:18:50 <phantomcircuit> but that's dangerous and would be like the last last last last resort
959 2013-02-08 18:19:10 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: We don't have enough nodes that it would be successful before it got bitcoin banned for being a network nusance.
960 2013-02-08 18:19:35 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, if it was slow enough it would probably work eventually
961 2013-02-08 18:19:45 <CodeShark> benkay: glad to hear
962 2013-02-08 18:19:48 <phantomcircuit> remember a syn packet is only 40 bytes
963 2013-02-08 18:19:58 <phantomcircuit> there's 4k connectable nodes
964 2013-02-08 18:20:00 <muhoo> syn floods are blocked, usually
965 2013-02-08 18:20:12 <gmaxwell> (one of the reasons we don't IRC by default anymoreâ it got bitcoin banned for being botnet drone software.. doh)
966 2013-02-08 18:20:20 <HM> phantomcircuit: that's more than there are (public) tor relays
967 2013-02-08 18:20:33 <phantomcircuit> it would take about 1 million attempts to find another node
968 2013-02-08 18:20:53 <phantomcircuit> so that's about 40 MiB
969 2013-02-08 18:21:14 <phantomcircuit> at a reasonable clip it would take days if not weeks
970 2013-02-08 18:22:02 <phantomcircuit> the default limit on win 7 is 10 half open so lets use that
971 2013-02-08 18:22:11 <phantomcircuit> timeout of 5 seconds
972 2013-02-08 18:22:25 <HM> I wonder how many people are using bitcoin over tor, besides torwallet
973 2013-02-08 18:22:36 <phantomcircuit> that's 2 per second
974 2013-02-08 18:23:01 <phantomcircuit> so that's 6 days average time to find another node
975 2013-02-08 18:23:11 <HM> wait did torwallet die
976 2013-02-08 18:23:25 <phantomcircuit> not great but also not totally terrible in a world where all other bootstrap methods fail
977 2013-02-08 18:23:33 <phantomcircuit> HM, torwallet is a scam
978 2013-02-08 18:23:36 <phantomcircuit> and always was
979 2013-02-08 18:23:38 <HM> oh good
980 2013-02-08 18:23:41 <phantomcircuit> a pretty obvious one at that
981 2013-02-08 18:24:03 <muhoo> as a great chinese engineer i one worked with said "do not fix thing that is not broken"
982 2013-02-08 18:24:54 <gmaxwell> HM: lots of people use bitcoin over tor. Thanks to b.i doing so or using b.i's wallet is the only way to avoid having your IPs displayed with your transactions on a webpage.
983 2013-02-08 18:25:18 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, their ip display is hilarious inaccurate
984 2013-02-08 18:25:21 <webb> maybe thats why alot of chinese made stuff is crap
985 2013-02-08 18:25:48 <amiller> if it ain't fixen don't broke it
986 2013-02-08 18:25:48 <muhoo> webb: naw, this guy was good. but idioms don't translate well between languages, in general.
987 2013-02-08 18:25:48 <phantomcircuit> i was broadcasting transactions through a relay that's connected to all connectable peers and it had the wrong ip for about half of them
988 2013-02-08 18:25:52 <gmaxwell> webb: most chinese made stuff has tremendous price performanceâ you ask for cheap you get cheap.
989 2013-02-08 18:25:59 <phantomcircuit> i cant imagine it's even remotely accurate for normal clients
990 2013-02-08 18:26:36 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: even getting it right 10% of the time would be a tremendous privacy loss.
991 2013-02-08 18:27:07 eigho has joined
992 2013-02-08 18:27:27 <muhoo> btw, on the topic of bitcoind and tor, i found setting up bitcoind and tor to be a significant PITA
993 2013-02-08 18:28:28 <phantomcircuit> muhoo, as a hidden service?
994 2013-02-08 18:28:32 <gmaxwell> muhoo: you can use bitcoin w/ tor without being an onion serverâ though of course it's better if more people are. But I wonder why you say significant PITA?
995 2013-02-08 18:28:43 <muhoo> it was the socks setup
996 2013-02-08 18:28:44 <Jezzz> anyone done a websocket connection for blockchain in python?
997 2013-02-08 18:28:53 <eigho> how is everybody on -dev ?
998 2013-02-08 18:28:53 benkay has quit (Quit: benkay)
999 2013-02-08 18:28:59 <Jezzz> seems trivial, but i'm not being successful
1000 2013-02-08 18:29:10 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i wish the tor people would allow creating hidden services using the control port
1001 2013-02-08 18:29:15 <muhoo> i don't remember the specifics, but it involved dicking with settings deep in the preferences of bitcoind or the gui tor app, or both, IIRC
1002 2013-02-08 18:29:28 <gmaxwell> muhoo: uhhhh that shouldn't be required at all.
1003 2013-02-08 18:29:51 <phantomcircuit> muhoo, -proxy=127.0.0.1:9050
1004 2013-02-08 18:29:56 <gmaxwell> we have a gui setting for the proxy. Tor has a default socks port. plugging 127.0.0.1 in there should do it.
1005 2013-02-08 18:30:13 <phantomcircuit> just add that as a cli option or change the proxy setting in the gui
1006 2013-02-08 18:30:50 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: it's an oft requested feature... though you'd still have to get access to the control port to the application.
1007 2013-02-08 18:31:10 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, that's really easy actually
1008 2013-02-08 18:31:15 <phantomcircuit> the protocol is dead simple
1009 2013-02-08 18:32:03 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: I mean you'd need to know the credentials.
1010 2013-02-08 18:32:21 <gmaxwell> (access to the control port is restricted, for good reasons!)
1011 2013-02-08 18:32:26 <phantomcircuit> defaults to saving them in a file
1012 2013-02-08 18:32:28 <phantomcircuit> i forget where
1013 2013-02-08 18:33:06 <phantomcircuit> no actually it depends on the distro
1014 2013-02-08 18:33:08 <phantomcircuit> but still
1015 2013-02-08 18:33:11 <gmaxwell> In any case, https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/6411
1016 2013-02-08 18:33:23 <muhoo> looking through my (cryptic) notes, it was, using tor-browser/visalia, had to turn automatic port of, and set the port to 9051
1017 2013-02-08 18:33:29 <gmaxwell> Also, https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/5976
1018 2013-02-08 18:33:43 <eigho> hey, gmaxwell, can bitcoin advertise itself using tor addresses?
1019 2013-02-08 18:33:44 <muhoo> in bitcoind, i hat to set the port to 9050, and turn off upnp
1020 2013-02-08 18:33:56 <phantomcircuit> eigho, yes
1021 2013-02-08 18:34:04 <gmaxwell> eigho: yes. See doc/Tor.txt
1022 2013-02-08 18:34:12 <phantomcircuit> .onion addresses are translated into ipv6 onioncat formatted addresses
1023 2013-02-08 18:34:26 <eigho> so we can have everything over tor. nice
1024 2013-02-08 18:34:28 <muhoo> the sketchy thing was, setting the port to 9051 in tor browser/visalia, but leaving it 9050 bitcoind, is all i can peice together from that
1025 2013-02-08 18:34:40 <gmaxwell> muhoo: upnp should be unrelated.
1026 2013-02-08 18:34:41 <muhoo> i meant to ask why that was
1027 2013-02-08 18:34:44 <phantomcircuit> 9051 is the control port
1028 2013-02-08 18:34:51 <phantomcircuit> 9050 is the socks port
1029 2013-02-08 18:35:05 <muhoo> well, i had to do that, and it was minimally-documented/undocumented IIRC.
1030 2013-02-08 18:35:19 drizztbsd has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1031 2013-02-08 18:35:43 <muhoo> just FYI
1032 2013-02-08 18:35:46 <eigho> ah. also, phantomcircuit and gmaxwell, didn't you say you were going to give stamit his money back?
1033 2013-02-08 18:35:54 <gmaxwell> I wasn't aware that the torbrowser stuff changed the default portâ seems braindamaged.
1034 2013-02-08 18:35:57 <phantomcircuit> oh ffs eigho go away
1035 2013-02-08 18:36:56 eoss has joined
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1037 2013-02-08 18:36:56 eoss has joined
1038 2013-02-08 18:36:59 <muhoo> gmaxwell: perhaps, but that's what made it difficult, again, my memory is absolutely horrible, apologies.
1039 2013-02-08 18:37:01 <MC1984> oh he came back lol
1040 2013-02-08 18:37:43 <gmaxwell> muhoo: thanks for the feedback, I'll see if I can find out what tor things do what and at least update our docs to help a bit.
1041 2013-02-08 18:38:03 eizedo has joined
1042 2013-02-08 18:38:31 <eizedo> yes, that's what happens when you have to give money
1043 2013-02-08 18:38:42 <gmaxwell> ;;kban #bitcoin-dev eizedo stamit
1044 2013-02-08 18:38:53 <phantomcircuit> next step
1045 2013-02-08 18:38:55 <phantomcircuit> ban china
1046 2013-02-08 18:39:25 <gmaxwell> One might wonder why this supposidly boring but mildly crazy trader guy has access to all these proxies.
1047 2013-02-08 18:39:35 <gmaxwell> supposedly*
1048 2013-02-08 18:40:10 <phantomcircuit> it's interesting that he thinks he can screw with me
1049 2013-02-08 18:40:18 <phantomcircuit> he really is crazy
1050 2013-02-08 18:40:38 <phantomcircuit> i'll send him the $126 just to find out his real name
1051 2013-02-08 18:41:30 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, im pretty sure he's buying servers
1052 2013-02-08 18:41:33 <phantomcircuit> which is bizarre
1053 2013-02-08 18:42:16 talso has joined
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1056 2013-02-08 18:44:01 <MC1984> ever had someone rent a botnet just to troll you?
1057 2013-02-08 18:44:09 <MC1984> do you feel special gmaxwell?
1058 2013-02-08 18:44:52 <gmaxwell> hey, he's trolling phantomcircuit now too.
1059 2013-02-08 18:44:58 <gmaxwell> so I guess I'm less special.
1060 2013-02-08 18:45:17 <phantomcircuit> he's not ready for trolling me
1061 2013-02-08 18:45:21 <phantomcircuit> he isn't prepared for that
1062 2013-02-08 18:45:26 * phantomcircuit evil laughs
1063 2013-02-08 18:45:56 occulta has joined
1064 2013-02-08 18:46:04 <MC1984> indeed you cannot troll a master troll :P
1065 2013-02-08 18:47:07 <helo> can anyone find the video of that kid yelling at his mom because she is asking him to stop playing call of duty (or some online game)?
1066 2013-02-08 18:47:30 <egecko> youtube might
1067 2013-02-08 18:47:46 <MC1984> prob the same kid that made the halo 2 video
1068 2013-02-08 18:48:03 <MC1984> average_console_gamer.mp4
1069 2013-02-08 18:49:08 <MC1984> LIGHTNING ROUND
1070 2013-02-08 18:49:22 <helo> can't find it :/
1071 2013-02-08 18:49:33 <helo> doh, this isn't -otc sorry
1072 2013-02-08 18:49:38 <MC1984> why isnt the chain check speed the exact same right until the checkpoint, at which point it should slow lots
1073 2013-02-08 18:49:41 <MC1984> right?
1074 2013-02-08 18:50:09 <gmaxwell> "why isnt .... right"?
1075 2013-02-08 18:50:22 <gmaxwell> (PARSE ERROR)
1076 2013-02-08 18:50:37 <MC1984> im so tired im brething manually right now
1077 2013-02-08 18:50:58 <gmaxwell> Then go sleep?
1078 2013-02-08 18:51:11 <MC1984> were it so easy
1079 2013-02-08 18:52:28 <MC1984> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG42S_PmRs4&noredirect=1
1080 2013-02-08 18:52:37 techlife has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1081 2013-02-08 18:52:41 <MC1984> an old classic there helo
1082 2013-02-08 18:52:54 <MC1984> i played halo 2 and a lot o them were actually like that
1083 2013-02-08 18:53:11 <helo> This video contains content from Warner Chappell and UMG, one or more of whom have blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.
1084 2013-02-08 18:53:28 <MC1984> lol ae you serious
1085 2013-02-08 18:54:31 freakazoid has joined
1086 2013-02-08 18:55:44 <muhoo> change countries then
1087 2013-02-08 18:56:25 <MC1984> well its called "croyts anger" if you an find it
1088 2013-02-08 18:56:32 <helo> found another copy... how the hell could they claim copyright on that?
1089 2013-02-08 18:56:50 <muhoo> i can claim copyright on rounded corners
1090 2013-02-08 18:57:05 * muhoo takes out a patent for chewing food
1091 2013-02-08 18:57:18 <MC1984> send millions of purgerous DMCA notices out automatically knowing no one will ever touch you for it
1092 2013-02-08 18:57:20 <MC1984> its easy
1093 2013-02-08 18:58:36 <gmaxwell> MC1984: At least in the ads but not blocked case its become quite a little industry on youtubeâ send out bogus notices flagged to trigger ads on old uploads, and you then get paid per view. Youtube earns money on it too, so there is little incentive for them to be critical.
1094 2013-02-08 18:59:21 techlife has joined
1095 2013-02-08 18:59:27 <gmaxwell> I have exactly one video on youtubeâ an upload of big buck bunny (cc-by licensed) I put up for codec testing, and I've had it taken down with bogus mandated adverts four times now.
1096 2013-02-08 19:00:04 <MC1984> ads paying completely unrelated third parties?
1097 2013-02-08 19:00:42 <moore> the copy right wars will be won with better software. Money has infected the politics of it.
1098 2013-02-08 19:00:48 <gmaxwell> MC1984: yup
1099 2013-02-08 19:01:39 <MC1984> that really is bullshit
1100 2013-02-08 19:01:48 <gmaxwell> MC1984: business model seems to be (1) sign up as a copyright owner with youtube, (2) find high(er) traffic videos from inactive youtube users, (3) profit
1101 2013-02-08 19:01:51 <moore> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/08/as-curiosity-touches-down-on-mars-video-is-taken-down-from-youtube/
1102 2013-02-08 19:01:52 <MC1984> the studios have pretty well captured youtube
1103 2013-02-08 19:02:11 <gmaxwell> It irritates me doubly because when a youtube video has mandatory ads it makes it flash only.. no WebM support.
1104 2013-02-08 19:03:04 <MC1984> of course its fraud but what you gonna do about it?
1105 2013-02-08 19:03:54 <MC1984> just call up your legal department on extens.......wait a minute
1106 2013-02-08 19:04:01 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i always wondered what it was that caused that
1107 2013-02-08 19:04:16 <gmaxwell> And it looks like youtube will only provide me with contact info for the fraudsters it under subpoena.
1108 2013-02-08 19:04:17 <phantomcircuit> MC1984, depends on how much you lost
1109 2013-02-08 19:04:27 <gmaxwell> s/ it //
1110 2013-02-08 19:04:47 <MC1984> its a pity the purjury bit doesnt mean shit
1111 2013-02-08 19:05:16 <gmaxwell> IIRC youtube doesn't even make reporting parties file a formal dmca notice... so there is no purjury.
1112 2013-02-08 19:05:27 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, for some fun go and bitch at the da (well assistant da)
1113 2013-02-08 19:05:38 benkay has joined
1114 2013-02-08 19:05:44 <phantomcircuit> they're unlikely to do anything but if enough people complain about perjury maybe someday
1115 2013-02-08 19:05:45 <gmaxwell> They're complicit but it's a free service so... I guess the public significance of the infrastructure is irrelevant.
1116 2013-02-08 19:07:58 <moore> well the good news is that bitcoin is actually part of the answer :)
1117 2013-02-08 19:10:01 <MC1984> the only thing that really works is competition
1118 2013-02-08 19:10:11 <MC1984> but nothing comes close to youtube
1119 2013-02-08 19:10:31 FredEE has joined
1120 2013-02-08 19:10:51 <MC1984> plus the become further entrenched with the rise of web "services" deliered though specialised apps in things like TVs and such
1121 2013-02-08 19:11:39 <moore> MC1984, ya I am resiting right now researching what I would have to do to streem to HTML5 video
1122 2013-02-08 19:16:22 <MC1984> http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/permalink/2013/20130206p2pfrance
1123 2013-02-08 19:16:28 benkay has quit (Quit: benkay)
1124 2013-02-08 19:16:39 <MC1984> lol 2 strikes leads to 35% drop in p2p,22% drop in sales
1125 2013-02-08 19:16:43 <MC1984> whoops a daisy
1126 2013-02-08 19:17:52 <MC1984> i suppose all those studies about how pirates spend more arnt bullshit after all RIAA
1127 2013-02-08 19:18:20 <HM> hmm
1128 2013-02-08 19:18:28 <MC1984> of couse hadopi is still lauded as a success, because its never been about the money it was always about control
1129 2013-02-08 19:18:47 <MC1984> such is the culture of these people
1130 2013-02-08 19:20:01 <HM> so 0.8-rc1 has fully synced for me now, and is occupying 1 GiB of memory on a 512 MiB VPS
1131 2013-02-08 19:20:21 <HM> it seems the default -dbcache is 25 MiB, so is there anything else i can do to reduce memory footprint?
1132 2013-02-08 19:20:35 <HM> # connections is already much lower than 0.7.2
1133 2013-02-08 19:20:57 <MC1984> still 1gb after finishing?
1134 2013-02-08 19:21:01 <HM> Indeed
1135 2013-02-08 19:22:16 <MC1984> mine doesnt go above 300
1136 2013-02-08 19:22:57 <HM> well i issed bitcoind stop
1137 2013-02-08 19:23:06 <HM> and it's not falling at about 2 MiB/s according to htop
1138 2013-02-08 19:23:08 <HM> resident
1139 2013-02-08 19:23:19 <HM> actually it's fluctuating
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1143 2013-02-08 19:24:44 <HM> the heap is 500 MiB
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1146 2013-02-08 19:27:42 <HM> i'll restart it and see how it fares
1147 2013-02-08 19:31:08 <HM> the debian stable bitcoind package has been recompiled
1148 2013-02-08 19:31:15 <HM> still 0.7.2 though atm
1149 2013-02-08 19:31:26 <HM> (which makes sense)
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1158 2013-02-08 19:46:41 <gmaxwell> moore: to stream html5 video .. you put files on your webserver. And you put a video tag on your site. Just like an image. Thats basically itâ at least just to get something going.
1159 2013-02-08 19:47:28 darkskiez has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1160 2013-02-08 19:48:41 <moore> gmaxwell, ya but I want to do it in my distributed secure message passing based system
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1163 2013-02-08 19:50:04 <gmaxwell> moore: if you can handle transfering an image you can handle video. Though best if you can fetch the file in order.
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1165 2013-02-08 19:50:44 <moore> gmaxwell, I can I just need to look in how to give the player one chunk at a time
1166 2013-02-08 19:51:04 <moore> so I don't have to get the hole thing before playing it video
1167 2013-02-08 19:51:46 <moore> and I can't just stream a big file cause you can't authenticate the data untill you see it all
1168 2013-02-08 19:52:23 <moore> you can think of what I am building as tahoe + bitcoin in the browser
1169 2013-02-08 19:52:42 <moore> not exatly right but a useful way to start thinking about it
1170 2013-02-08 19:52:46 <Scrat> gmaxwell: with a few modifications (moov atom has to be in the beginning)
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1174 2013-02-08 19:53:48 <Scrat> (For mp4 h264)
1175 2013-02-08 19:54:44 BTCOxygen has joined
1176 2013-02-08 19:55:44 <moore> ( and yes I know I was just talking like one of those people with grand plans that can't actual execute on them )
1177 2013-02-08 19:55:51 <Scrat> (if you need seeking)
1178 2013-02-08 19:55:51 BNCatDIGISHELL has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1179 2013-02-08 19:56:00 <Scrat> too many parentheses
1180 2013-02-08 19:57:15 OneFixt has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1181 2013-02-08 19:57:28 <gmaxwell> Scrat: you actually can't decode mp4 at all without the segment table.. but thats because its braindamaged. Ogg and WebM have no such limitation.
1182 2013-02-08 19:57:38 <moore> ( set parentheses ( too many ) )
1183 2013-02-08 19:59:54 <Scrat> such a clusterfuck. IE won't be supporting webM so you're gonna have to encode both webM and H264 if you're hosting html5 video
1184 2013-02-08 20:00:15 <moore> Scrat, or you can just not support IE
1185 2013-02-08 20:00:29 <Scrat> I'm with you
1186 2013-02-08 20:01:23 daybyter has joined
1187 2013-02-08 20:01:36 <moore> the js part of my project only works in IE 10 ( well I can't actually run that browser so who knows really )
1188 2013-02-08 20:02:26 <moore> rather IE 10 is the only IE bowser is could possibly work in
1189 2013-02-08 20:03:09 <gmaxwell> Scrat: webm works fine in IE so long as you have the codec installed. Apple stuff is the long poll in the tent.
1190 2013-02-08 20:03:31 <gmaxwell> s/poll/pole/ :P
1191 2013-02-08 20:03:41 <Scrat> oh right, forgot about Safari
1192 2013-02-08 20:04:02 <moore> dose chrome for ios add webm support?
1193 2013-02-08 20:05:15 <gmaxwell> I don't believe it does. Chrome for IOS is really a GUI front end on safari's webkit.
1194 2013-02-08 20:05:23 <gmaxwell> But I wouldn't know, so don't listen to me.
1195 2013-02-08 20:05:50 clr_ has joined
1196 2013-02-08 20:06:11 <moore> well I think it replaces the network interface and a bunch of other stuff too; but yes it uses webkit for rendering.
1197 2013-02-08 20:07:01 BNCatDIGISHELL has joined
1198 2013-02-08 20:07:20 <moore> if you have time to read it this epic post is interesting and enlightening : http://www.igvita.com/posa/high-performance-networking-in-google-chrome/
1199 2013-02-08 20:11:30 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: hey, any chance you might clarify your blog? apparently some people are reading "Eligius has problems" from it when you talk about the GBT bugs in Avalon's cgminer :P
1200 2013-02-08 20:11:44 <Goonie> I wonder how you build bitcoind? I always built bitcoin-qt using "make", but it builds only that. How do I tell make to build bitcoind?
1201 2013-02-08 20:12:13 twixed has joined
1202 2013-02-08 20:12:28 <Luke-Jr> Goonie: cd src
1203 2013-02-08 20:12:38 <Luke-Jr> Goonie: make -f makefile.unix BDB_INCLUDE_PATH=/usr/include/db4.8
1204 2013-02-08 20:13:12 <Goonie> luke: thanks
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1216 2013-02-08 20:59:21 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I got a match, gitian-building 0.8.0rc1 in VirtualBox!
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1219 2013-02-08 21:10:08 * jgarzik cheers
1220 2013-02-08 21:10:49 <phantomcircuit> if (addr.nTime <= 100000000 || addr.nTime > nNow + 10 * 60)
1221 2013-02-08 21:10:57 <phantomcircuit> main.cpp:2856
1222 2013-02-08 21:11:05 <phantomcircuit> anybody knows what the first check is for?
1223 2013-02-08 21:12:06 <phantomcircuit> the Time (version >= 31402)
1224 2013-02-08 21:12:13 <phantomcircuit> what was it < 31402?
1225 2013-02-08 21:13:01 <phantomcircuit> actually i dont care nvm
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1271 2013-02-08 22:57:10 <benkay> hey friends, in attempting to run armory on os x, i'm bouncing off this wall:
1272 2013-02-08 22:57:25 <benkay> "Symbol not found: >PyCapsule_Type
1273 2013-02-08 22:57:45 <benkay> Referenced from: /usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/PyQt4/QTCore.so"
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1287 2013-02-08 23:16:18 <Luke-Jr> Benjojo: why did you compile PyQt4 from source?
1288 2013-02-08 23:20:21 rdymac has joined
1289 2013-02-08 23:20:45 dserrano5 has joined
1290 2013-02-08 23:21:12 veralibertas has joined
1291 2013-02-08 23:22:00 <dserrano5> I'm trying to build on windows and finding a "boost/signals2/signal.hpp: No such file or directory"
1292 2013-02-08 23:22:11 <dserrano5> I understand it's caused by qtgui_deps being out of date
1293 2013-02-08 23:22:36 <dserrano5> seems that #1155 (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/1155) is about this, opened 10 months ago, closed 8 months ago
1294 2013-02-08 23:22:46 <dserrano5> should I reply to it, or open a new issue?
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1306 2013-02-08 23:40:48 <kinlo> anyone who has gitian sigs for the win32 dependencies?
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1310 2013-02-08 23:44:59 <HM> http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/af_bus.html
1311 2013-02-08 23:45:04 <HM> this is great
1312 2013-02-08 23:45:48 D34TH has joined
1313 2013-02-08 23:47:22 <HM> i hope it's half as good as 0mq
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