1 2013-03-14 00:00:09 <sipa> TD: #2015 and #2016
   2 2013-03-14 00:00:37 diatonic has quit (Quit: diatonic)
   3 2013-03-14 00:01:00 <gavinandresen> TD: what are you using to get a heap profile ?
   4 2013-03-14 00:01:21 <TD> gavinandresen: tcmalloc has it built in for free along with a crude visualization tool
   5 2013-03-14 00:01:36 <TD> where by "for free" i mean, you set an environment variable and then wait a long time because it gets very slow
   6 2013-03-14 00:01:51 <TD> i can upload some of the SVGs it generates if you like
   7 2013-03-14 00:02:36 <gavinandresen> TD: mmmm…  might be interesting, but won't prompt me to actually do something, so probably don't bother
   8 2013-03-14 00:02:44 <TD> http://plan99.net/~mike/pprof23432.0.svg
   9 2013-03-14 00:02:56 <gmaxwell> TD: hm! I was not able to get the TC malloc profiles to work it only gave me per slabsize stats! how do you do that?
  10 2013-03-14 00:02:59 <TD> i might try sipas suggestion just to see what happens
  11 2013-03-14 00:03:00 nimdAHK has joined
  12 2013-03-14 00:03:08 <TD> http://goog-perftools.sourceforge.net/doc/heap_profiler.html
  13 2013-03-14 00:03:24 <gmaxwell> We knew that the send/recv queues were big users though.
  14 2013-03-14 00:03:49 <gmaxwell> Annoyingly tcmalloc fixes the vmbloat that we get with the regular malloc, so it probably won't help find the causes of the vm fragmentation.
  15 2013-03-14 00:04:00 <TD> if you look at the svg it's almost all accounted to PushMessage
  16 2013-03-14 00:04:03 <phantomcircuit> TD, that is a horribly planned svg
  17 2013-03-14 00:04:04 <phantomcircuit> :|
  18 2013-03-14 00:04:19 <TD> it's not easy to read, that's for sure
  19 2013-03-14 00:04:28 <TD> so i think there's something weird going on with vSend
  20 2013-03-14 00:04:29 maaku has joined
  21 2013-03-14 00:04:35 <gavinandresen> needs more colors and fonts.  And maybe blink.
  22 2013-03-14 00:04:40 <TD> probably what sipa said - it only ever grows, not shrinks
  23 2013-03-14 00:04:50 <TD> hmm
  24 2013-03-14 00:05:02 <sipa> gavinandresen: and <marquee>
  25 2013-03-14 00:05:04 <TD> if a node requests the block chain, i bet we add all the blocks virtually at the same time
  26 2013-03-14 00:05:10 grn_home has left ()
  27 2013-03-14 00:05:12 <maaku> does anyone have a link to the explanation of why nLockTime was disabled, what was unsafe about it, and if it's still relevant? I want to understand the security implications.
  28 2013-03-14 00:05:15 <TD> if vSend.vch gets really big then, it'll never shrink
  29 2013-03-14 00:05:23 <sipa> maaku: nLockTime is not disabled
  30 2013-03-14 00:05:40 <sipa> maaku: or you mean why it is made non-standard?
  31 2013-03-14 00:05:49 <maaku> that's what I meant
  32 2013-03-14 00:05:51 <TD> maaku: non-final tx relays are disabled because some wallets don't handle them properly.
  33 2013-03-14 00:06:00 <TD> maaku: (like, nearly all of them)
  34 2013-03-14 00:06:13 <gmaxwell> maaku: it's non-standard when the non-final.  Otherwise I can make a txn that won't confirm for 20 years and some idiot software will expect it to confirm soon.
  35 2013-03-14 00:06:15 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,blocks
  36 2013-03-14 00:06:16 <gribble> 225720
  37 2013-03-14 00:06:26 <TD> maaku: at some point bitcoind will get a proper fix and then nodes will be able to opt-in to receiving them again, i guess.
  38 2013-03-14 00:07:02 thepok has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  39 2013-03-14 00:07:04 <gavinandresen> maaku: why do you want them?
  40 2013-03-14 00:07:06 <sipa> TD: we do track the maximum size of the send buffer, you can limit it with -maxsendbuffer
  41 2013-03-14 00:07:06 <HM2> usual trick to string a vector pre-c++11 is to swap() it with an empty one
  42 2013-03-14 00:07:11 <gmaxwell> TD: what do you mean 'proper fix'? we were already handling them sanelyish.
  43 2013-03-14 00:07:19 hsmithsN7 has joined
  44 2013-03-14 00:07:22 <TD> proper fix == relay them but don't add them to the wallet
  45 2013-03-14 00:07:24 <maaku> ok, so it's not a security hole, correct? there's nothing inherently unsafe, except when you add dumb wallets and human beings in the mix?
  46 2013-03-14 00:07:52 <TD> http://plan99.net/~mike/pprof.xml   <-- this version renders in the browser without a download, at least on mac chrome
  47 2013-03-14 00:07:54 <maaku> gavinandresen: composable transactions for market orders under a colored coin proposal
  48 2013-03-14 00:08:16 <sipa> maaku: indeed, but dealing with them correctly does require dependency tracking through the memory-pool
  49 2013-03-14 00:08:24 <maaku> ok, thank you
  50 2013-03-14 00:08:39 <sipa> maaku: which not every node can do, even
  51 2013-03-14 00:08:45 <phantomcircuit> TD, lol dont open that in firefox
  52 2013-03-14 00:08:53 <TD> what happens?
  53 2013-03-14 00:08:53 jrmithdobbs has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  54 2013-03-14 00:09:03 <HM2> very cool
  55 2013-03-14 00:09:14 <phantomcircuit> TD, all the memories
  56 2013-03-14 00:09:19 <TD> how ironic
  57 2013-03-14 00:09:33 <gmaxwell> perfectly fine in nightly.
  58 2013-03-14 00:09:44 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, start scrolling in
  59 2013-03-14 00:10:05 <phantomcircuit> i got to the point that i could actually read things and noticed the growing green line
  60 2013-03-14 00:10:13 protus has quit (Quit: protus)
  61 2013-03-14 00:10:33 <HM2> chrome has a nice panning behaviour
  62 2013-03-14 00:10:33 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: I have.. and about:memory shows 3.8MBytes used for that tab.
  63 2013-03-14 00:10:39 <phantomcircuit> weird
  64 2013-03-14 00:11:00 joe_k has joined
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  67 2013-03-14 00:11:10 <phantomcircuit> TD, tcmalloc is very nice i used it when building an exchange in c++
  68 2013-03-14 00:11:12 JZavala has joined
  69 2013-03-14 00:11:20 <phantomcircuit> instant 30% reduction in latency
  70 2013-03-14 00:11:23 <gmaxwell> (firefox has a memory profiler built in— not a snazzy graph output though :P )
  71 2013-03-14 00:11:36 <TD> it is designed for servers. the main problem with tcmalloc is that it never releases memory back to the OS
  72 2013-03-14 00:11:56 <TD> however for something like bitcoin where it's supposed to run for a long time with somewhat predictable memory usage, that shouldn't be a killer issue
  73 2013-03-14 00:12:22 <phantomcircuit> except memory usage tends to spike at random times
  74 2013-03-14 00:12:26 <gmaxwell> Jemalloc also improves bitcoin's virtual address space usage and does free memory.
  75 2013-03-14 00:12:30 <HM2> i thought jemalloc was the sexy hotness these days
  76 2013-03-14 00:12:37 <HM2> oh there we go
  77 2013-03-14 00:12:39 <phantomcircuit> if all of your peers want a block at the same time for example
  78 2013-03-14 00:12:51 <gmaxwell> Amusingly, tcmalloc and jemalloc both didn't seem to make bitcoin any faster in my benchmarks, I was really surprised.
  79 2013-03-14 00:12:52 freewil has joined
  80 2013-03-14 00:13:00 <gmaxwell> Though perhaps I should try again with sipa-turboecc. :P
  81 2013-03-14 00:13:25 <TD> well yes, but spiky memory usage is something that can/should be fixed
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  84 2013-03-14 00:13:56 <phantomcircuit> TD, yes but the correct fix for it in that specific case would require changing a lot of code :|
  85 2013-03-14 00:14:17 jrmithdobbs has joined
  86 2013-03-14 00:14:32 <TD> given that block data is stored on disk in the same format that it is sent to the network, it's a real shame the code can't easily support direct fd-to-fd sends
  87 2013-03-14 00:14:34 <phantomcircuit> send on a peer should never go through a buffer, if the send returns that anything less than 100% of the buffer was accepted the peer should be disconnected
  88 2013-03-14 00:14:45 <TD> streaming the block chain to nodes shouldn't even really need touching the heap at all
  89 2013-03-14 00:15:04 protus has joined
  90 2013-03-14 00:15:14 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: but that can be caused by things besides the peer like local system state
  91 2013-03-14 00:15:50 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, it can be but those things are uncommon enough that simply disconnecting and forcing the peer to find someone else should be the preferred solution
  92 2013-03-14 00:16:06 <Luke-Jr> https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/luke-jr/97-preparing-my-trip-bfl.html
  93 2013-03-14 00:16:13 <HM2> TD: sendfile() for the win, but very platform specific
  94 2013-03-14 00:16:41 <gmaxwell> HM2: we need to compute the 'checksum'.
  95 2013-03-14 00:17:02 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: no we don't, it's stored in the index isn't it?
  96 2013-03-14 00:17:03 <HM2> it's not on disk?
  97 2013-03-14 00:17:20 <phantomcircuit> the checksum for the message not the block/transaction
  98 2013-03-14 00:17:23 <TD> oh look, how timely - http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/03/13/1958240/obama-administration-to-allow-all-spy-agencies-to-scour-americans-finances
  99 2013-03-14 00:17:27 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, you could precompute those
 100 2013-03-14 00:17:32 <TD> phantomcircuit: the message is the block
 101 2013-03-14 00:17:45 <jrmithdobbs> ya the message is just the block so you already have the checksum
 102 2013-03-14 00:17:47 <phantomcircuit> TD, not in the current p2p protocol
 103 2013-03-14 00:17:57 <jrmithdobbs> i thought it was for that message?
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 105 2013-03-14 00:18:07 <phantomcircuit> it's close
 106 2013-03-14 00:18:09 <phantomcircuit> but not entirely
 107 2013-03-14 00:18:34 <phantomcircuit> it's still got the magic/command/length/checksum header
 108 2013-03-14 00:18:42 <phantomcircuit> which you would need to precompute
 109 2013-03-14 00:19:10 thatbenguy has joined
 110 2013-03-14 00:19:12 <phantomcircuit> either way the remote peer would disconnect you for flooding it's receive buffer
 111 2013-03-14 00:19:20 FredEE has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 112 2013-03-14 00:19:21 alexwaters has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 113 2013-03-14 00:19:23 <phantomcircuit> btw the logic there could be pretty easily improved
 114 2013-03-14 00:19:25 <jrmithdobbs> bleh, lets switch to a treed hash for messages on the p2p net so we can extend it easily, eg, hash everything before the block and combine those hashes ;p
 115 2013-03-14 00:19:36 <MKCoin> what block are we on right now? And is there an irc bot command I can use for that in the future? :P
 116 2013-03-14 00:19:41 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,blocks
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 120 2013-03-14 00:19:42 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
 121 2013-03-14 00:19:42 <gribble> 225723
 122 2013-03-14 00:19:42 <HM2> networking is such a drag
 123 2013-03-14 00:19:43 <gribble> 225723
 124 2013-03-14 00:19:55 <gmaxwell> though gribble's numbers aren't always accurate.
 125 2013-03-14 00:20:03 <phantomcircuit> gah i would write a patch to improve the receive buffer
 126 2013-03-14 00:20:05 <phantomcircuit> but no times
 127 2013-03-14 00:20:06 <sipa> especially not when blockexplorer is down :)
 128 2013-03-14 00:20:12 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
 129 2013-03-14 00:20:43 <MKCoin> thanks
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 131 2013-03-14 00:21:03 <phantomcircuit> well since nobody asked
 132 2013-03-14 00:21:31 <phantomcircuit> the socket thread shouldn't be calling recv for peers whose receive buffer is already full
 133 2013-03-14 00:22:06 <sipa> probably shouldn't even be polling those
 134 2013-03-14 00:22:23 <sipa> (does it?_
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 136 2013-03-14 00:23:02 <phantomcircuit> sipa, it polls and calls recv(), if the buffer is then above the maximum size the socket is disconnected
 137 2013-03-14 00:23:09 <phantomcircuit> and i believe the buffer deleted
 138 2013-03-14 00:23:54 <phantomcircuit> which is part of the reason the initial chain download is faster over low latency links
 139 2013-03-14 00:24:05 ymirhotfoot has joined
 140 2013-03-14 00:24:09 <phantomcircuit> list 500 blocks
 141 2013-03-14 00:24:17 <phantomcircuit> get 500 blocks
 142 2013-03-14 00:24:29 <phantomcircuit> oh wait i just realized that's gonna break when 500 blocks is > 10 MB
 143 2013-03-14 00:24:48 <sipa> no it doesn't
 144 2013-03-14 00:25:21 <sipa> getblocks never sends a response list of blocks worth more than half of the outgoing buffer size
 145 2013-03-14 00:25:38 <phantomcircuit> sipa, what's the queue depth for getdata ?
 146 2013-03-14 00:27:20 <phantomcircuit> sipa, yes it does
 147 2013-03-14 00:27:59 <phantomcircuit> getblocks returns the 500 blocks after the starting block and before the stop block
 148 2013-03-14 00:28:08 <phantomcircuit> it simply returns an inv for all of them
 149 2013-03-14 00:29:10 <sipa> right, got changed
 150 2013-03-14 00:29:20 <eckey> I'm running Bitcoin Wallet for Testnet on my Android Nexus 7 tablet.  Earlier today I had testnet.mojocoin.com send 10 BTC.  About an hour ago, I got an additional 10.  Should we look into this?
 151 2013-03-14 00:29:24 <phantomcircuit> and PushGetBlocks doesn't have a rate limit afaict
 152 2013-03-14 00:29:26 <phantomcircuit> so yeah
 153 2013-03-14 00:29:47 <phantomcircuit> when the 500 most recent blocks are > 10MB the initial connection will disconnect the peer
 154 2013-03-14 00:29:48 <MKCoin> eckey it allows 20 per day
 155 2013-03-14 00:29:55 <phantomcircuit> you'll eventually be able to get the entire chain
 156 2013-03-14 00:29:58 <MKCoin> 10 per transaction
 157 2013-03-14 00:30:01 <phantomcircuit> but it would take forever
 158 2013-03-14 00:30:15 <eckey> MKCoin: but I only requested 10
 159 2013-03-14 00:30:21 brson_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 160 2013-03-14 00:30:31 <MKCoin> ah. Strange.
 161 2013-03-14 00:31:15 <eckey> I performed the app upgrade a few minutes ago, and that's when I noticed.
 162 2013-03-14 00:31:19 brson has joined
 163 2013-03-14 00:31:26 <phantomcircuit> sipa, obviously im missing something though since that's already true
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 175 2013-03-14 00:41:12 <TD> eckey: if you think you found a bug in bitcoinj please send it to the mailing list. this channel is the wrong place
 176 2013-03-14 00:41:27 <MKCoin> are the bitcoin-qt developers here?
 177 2013-03-14 00:42:09 <sipa> yes
 178 2013-03-14 00:43:08 <da2ce7_d> is the bitcoin-dev mailing list manualy approved?  It seems like my email hasn't been bounced.
 179 2013-03-14 00:43:09 <etotheipi_> sipa: is there a description of exactly how Bitcoin-Qt signs messages?  I guess the time has come to support it in Armory, even if I disagree with bare-no-context-signatures
 180 2013-03-14 00:43:31 <sipa> da2ce7_d: it's not moderated
 181 2013-03-14 00:43:44 <sipa> etotheipi_: not... really
 182 2013-03-14 00:43:49 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: it is if you aren't subscribed
 183 2013-03-14 00:43:56 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: oh, could be
 184 2013-03-14 00:44:07 <jrmithdobbs> forget who holds the approval ability think gavin
 185 2013-03-14 00:44:09 <MKCoin> When I run bitcoin-qt in testnet mode, it shows the green icon in the title bar and the system tray, but the Windows 7 taskbar icon shows the normal coin icon. Just wanted to report that.
 186 2013-03-14 00:44:34 <sipa> MKCoin: best file a bug: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues
 187 2013-03-14 00:44:41 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: will also trigger moderator approval if certain attachments iirc
 188 2013-03-14 00:44:47 <etotheipi_> sipa: so how am I supposed to implement it?  look at the source?
 189 2013-03-14 00:44:57 <gavinandresen> bitcoin-dev is an open list
 190 2013-03-14 00:45:13 <sipa> etotheipi_: BitcoinJ has a probably much-more-readable implementation
 191 2013-03-14 00:45:23 <jrmithdobbs> etotheipi_: yes, you have to look at the source and derive what's actually happening based on the calls to openssl and their default params that aren't being specified
 192 2013-03-14 00:45:27 <jrmithdobbs> etotheipi_: it's fun
 193 2013-03-14 00:45:48 <etotheipi_> sipa: gmaxwell: gavinandresen: can we agree to modify the signing stuff to at least create base64 ASCII-armored blocks (opaque or not)?
 194 2013-03-14 00:45:52 nealmcb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 195 2013-03-14 00:46:14 <etotheipi_> bare no-context signatures seems really ugly and prone to error
 196 2013-03-14 00:46:25 <jrmithdobbs> etotheipi_: there's lots of unexpected der encoding and byte string reversing that is quite confusing, i think sipa's suggestion to look at bitcoinj's impl is good
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 199 2013-03-14 00:47:04 <sipa> etotheipi_: i see the signing function mostly as a low-level feature to implement things like payment protocol... i do agree that if used as an end-user function you need a more robust encapsulation, and that is how it ended up being used
 200 2013-03-14 00:47:20 <etotheipi_> I think it does us good that the signing feature produces something like this:  http://bitcoinarmory.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/dlgSigBlock.png
 201 2013-03-14 00:47:41 <etotheipi_> that is fairly explicit about exactly what was signed, and that the signature was good... it doesn't even show you the message if the signature is bad
 202 2013-03-14 00:48:02 nealmcb has joined
 203 2013-03-14 00:48:03 <sipa> yeah, that's what you want for end-user access to the function; agree
 204 2013-03-14 00:48:18 <Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: I'm going to be tied up with BFL this coming week; I presume you don't need me around for 0.8.1?
 205 2013-03-14 00:48:31 <gavinandresen> Luke-Jr: nope
 206 2013-03-14 00:49:29 <sipa> etotheipi_: anyway, if you need a high-level description of the signing format, i can just tell you instead of you reverse-engineering it
 207 2013-03-14 00:49:45 <etotheipi_> it would be awesome if we could add signed messages to the URL scheme... then you could send someone a link, which when they click on it, will show up in your client with apropriate checks (or tell you the sig was invalid)
 208 2013-03-14 00:50:21 midnightmagic has quit (Quit: quit)
 209 2013-03-14 00:50:32 <sipa> etotheipi_: in the long run, i'm actually quite opposed to end users ever needing to even see a bitcoin address
 210 2013-03-14 00:50:47 <TD> etotheipi_: https://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/source/browse/core/src/main/java/com/google/bitcoin/core/ECKey.java#377
 211 2013-03-14 00:50:49 <sipa> etotheipi_: and a user-facing sign message feature is the same thing
 212 2013-03-14 00:51:12 <etotheipi_> sipa: okay... but it'll be a long time before user-facing addresses go away
 213 2013-03-14 00:51:33 <etotheipi_> and people use the feature... I know because I got lots of emails about Armory being incompatible
 214 2013-03-14 00:51:57 <sipa> etotheipi_: fair enough
 215 2013-03-14 00:52:51 <etotheipi_> I was also under the assumption that this is only a small step in terms of implementation beyond what Bitcoin-Qt already has
 216 2013-03-14 00:52:55 <gavinandresen> anybody have a little script that will tell me which block hash or height starts a blk00*.dat file ?
 217 2013-03-14 00:53:19 <sipa> gavinandresen: block hash should be trivial
 218 2013-03-14 00:53:29 oracleCoin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 219 2013-03-14 00:53:45 <gavinandresen> sipa: sure, just extract the right bytes and then do some endian stuff....
 220 2013-03-14 00:54:01 <sipa> exactly!
 221 2013-03-14 00:54:10 <gavinandresen> … which is not QUITE trivial enough for me to just do it instead of asking
 222 2013-03-14 00:54:26 <sipa> parent block hash is even easier: look at bytes 4-36 in the file, and hex dump them
 223 2013-03-14 00:54:30 <sipa> wait
 224 2013-03-14 00:54:37 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: I know I sent my OSX request just before the fork mess... but what do I have to do to convince you to start building bitcoind into the OSX builds?
 225 2013-03-14 00:55:03 <sipa> 8-40
 226 2013-03-14 00:55:20 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: mmm.  building it so it is compatible with OSX10.5+ and then figuring out where to put it (somewhere in the .app bundle?) is non-trivial
 227 2013-03-14 00:55:33 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: didn't you used to do it?
 228 2013-03-14 00:55:43 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: no
 229 2013-03-14 00:55:57 <gavinandresen> bitcoind was never shipped on osx
 230 2013-03-14 00:56:04 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: oh
 231 2013-03-14 00:56:09 BeagleSeven has joined
 232 2013-03-14 00:56:19 <etotheipi_> crap
 233 2013-03-14 00:56:41 <etotheipi_> this is really killing me... I'm going to have auto-management of bitcoind under-the-hood on Linux and Windows... but OSX will be...
 234 2013-03-14 00:56:43 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 235 2013-03-14 00:57:02 <etotheipi_> I either have to require them to run it themselves, or manage Bitcoin-Qt which is likely to be shut down by the user and mess up Armory
 236 2013-03-14 00:57:19 copumpkin has joined
 237 2013-03-14 00:58:05 <gavinandresen> sorry, figuring out how to build and package bitcoind so Armory works isn't going to make it onto my TODO list
 238 2013-03-14 00:58:13 axhlf has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 239 2013-03-14 00:58:16 <etotheipi_> I think it's a worthy capability, though, making it easy for apps like Armory to run behind it
 240 2013-03-14 00:58:39 <gavinandresen> sure, I just have too many higher priority things to do
 241 2013-03-14 00:59:09 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: totally understood, I'm hoping you have a suggestion for me
 242 2013-03-14 00:59:17 <gavinandresen> … like remember which unix command will extract bytes 8-40 of a file....
 243 2013-03-14 00:59:23 tvisdog has joined
 244 2013-03-14 00:59:42 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: is there a Bitcoin-Qt option to start minimized?  That might be a reasonable compromise
 245 2013-03-14 01:00:12 <sipa> gavinandresen: dd bs=1 skip=8 count=32
 246 2013-03-14 01:00:20 <gavinandresen> sipa: thanks
 247 2013-03-14 01:00:25 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: I might have to settle for that and see how many complaints I get
 248 2013-03-14 01:00:40 <etotheipi_> what about not bundling it with the .app
 249 2013-03-14 01:00:45 <etotheipi_> is there a way to just make it available?
 250 2013-03-14 01:00:57 <etotheipi_> is that easier (enough)?
 251 2013-03-14 01:01:12 <sipa> gavinandresen: i may be wrong
 252 2013-03-14 01:01:40 sl1982 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 253 2013-03-14 01:02:23 <sipa> gavinandresen: it's bytes 12-44
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 257 2013-03-14 01:03:30 <sipa> gavinandresen: and byte-swap the result (but don't swap the 2 hex digits per byte)
 258 2013-03-14 01:03:57 <gavinandresen> sipa: byte-swap two at a time?
 259 2013-03-14 01:04:11 <gavinandresen> e.g. 1048  -->   4801  ?
 260 2013-03-14 01:04:44 <phantomcircuit> hmm
 261 2013-03-14 01:04:50 <phantomcircuit> possible improvement for coin selection
 262 2013-03-14 01:04:57 <sipa> gavinandresen: 4810
 263 2013-03-14 01:05:08 <phantomcircuit> the change from the transaction should be a useable amount
 264 2013-03-14 01:05:09 <gavinandresen> right.  sigh.
 265 2013-03-14 01:05:30 <phantomcircuit> so if im sending 10,10,10 the inputs shouldn't be 10,10,10.00001
 266 2013-03-14 01:05:33 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: I have an armoryengine script that does it in 8 lines of code (after you import armoryengine)
 267 2013-03-14 01:06:03 <sipa> gavinandresen: for i in [43,42..8]: printf("%02x", input[i]);
 268 2013-03-14 01:06:08 <gavinandresen> mmm, I have python code in bitcointools that could do it, too
 269 2013-03-14 01:06:10 <sipa> eh, ..12
 270 2013-03-14 01:06:16 <etotheipi_> http://pastebin.com/h5ZWBP59
 271 2013-03-14 01:06:29 <gavinandresen> … was just hoping somebody already had a little script that Just Did It
 272 2013-03-14 01:06:56 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: it does... if you git checkout armory and make... then you can run that script from the checkout directory
 273 2013-03-14 01:07:15 undecim has joined
 274 2013-03-14 01:07:36 <sipa> actually... sec
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 276 2013-03-14 01:09:24 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: whoops, that script prints out unordered...   this one prints a sorted list: http://pastebin.com/8aLJ9zFz
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 279 2013-03-14 01:10:41 <sipa> dd bs=1 skip=8 count=80 <~/.bitcoin/blocks/blk00003.dat 2>/dev/null | openssl sha256 -binary | sha256sum
 280 2013-03-14 01:10:53 <sipa> (it prints it byte-reversed)
 281 2013-03-14 01:10:54 <phantomcircuit> sipa, thoughts on my thoughts on coin selection? :)
 282 2013-03-14 01:11:11 <sipa> phantomcircuit: brain overload, sorry
 283 2013-03-14 01:11:15 <phantomcircuit> hehe
 284 2013-03-14 01:11:21 <phantomcircuit> i'll go bug someone else
 285 2013-03-14 01:12:25 <gavinandresen> sipa: nice, thanks
 286 2013-03-14 01:13:12 <zechiel> Is there a reason why sendmany only accepts a list of unique receiving addresses?
 287 2013-03-14 01:13:48 <Luke-Jr> zechiel: to make spamming harder?
 288 2013-03-14 01:13:54 <sipa> zechiel: sounds like a shortcoming
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 290 2013-03-14 01:15:04 <nanotube> sipa: jgarzik has mentioned that the requirement of uniqueness has saved him at least once from accidentally paying someone twice.
 291 2013-03-14 01:15:19 undecim has joined
 292 2013-03-14 01:15:20 <nanotube> since under 'most normal circumstances' you don't want to do that, it seems like a feature rather than a bug
 293 2013-03-14 01:16:09 <nanotube> (bitcoind raw transaction api doesn't have the limitation, so if one is all hard core and really wants to, can make the tx manually)
 294 2013-03-14 01:16:23 <sipa> nanotube: good point
 295 2013-03-14 01:16:37 <Luke-Jr> nanotube++
 296 2013-03-14 01:16:57 <zechiel> createrawtransaction has the same restriction, I think
 297 2013-03-14 01:17:28 amantonop has joined
 298 2013-03-14 01:17:53 <sipa> it does, apparently
 299 2013-03-14 01:19:31 <gavinandresen> yes, createrawtransaction uses the same syntax for who-to-pay as sendmany, and doesn't let you specify the same destination twice
 300 2013-03-14 01:19:54 <gavinandresen> the other raw transactions API calls don't care, though.
 301 2013-03-14 01:20:22 <drago777> hey guys I am somewhat of a newb to bit coin and I am looking to contribute to the community can someone suggest a good project that would be helpful
 302 2013-03-14 01:20:27 <gavinandresen> … so you could createrawtransaction with dummy destinations, and then hack the real destinations into them....
 303 2013-03-14 01:20:37 <zechiel> Ugh
 304 2013-03-14 01:20:49 <zechiel> I'd rather patch bitcoind
 305 2013-03-14 01:21:02 <jgarzik> ugh.  I'd rather write a 30-line python script ;p
 306 2013-03-14 01:21:15 <gavinandresen> mmm.  That works, too. It'd be fairly simple to have creatrawtransaction take either an Object or an Array of pairs
 307 2013-03-14 01:21:45 <nanotube> zechiel: just curious, why would you need to send multiple batches to the same address in one sendmany, anyway?
 308 2013-03-14 01:21:50 <Eliel_> etotheipi_: can't you include bitcoind in the armory package?
 309 2013-03-14 01:21:53 <nanotube> why not just consolidate into one?
 310 2013-03-14 01:22:08 <Eliel_> etotheipi_: for Mac OS X that is
 311 2013-03-14 01:22:33 <zechiel> +nanotube: I was trying to generate large transactions with many txins and txouts on testnet
 312 2013-03-14 01:23:23 <gavinandresen> Eliel_ because nobody has done the work of figuring out how to make a bitcoind that will actually run on end-users machines, and not just developer machines
 313 2013-03-14 01:23:33 <gavinandresen> (an osx bitcoind)
 314 2013-03-14 01:24:06 <gavinandresen> The OSX Bitcoin-Qt.app build process does a bunch of magic to pull dependencies into the .app bundle
 315 2013-03-14 01:24:20 <phantomcircuit> it's funny that that's actually an issue
 316 2013-03-14 01:24:49 <gavinandresen> ?  that's always an issue….
 317 2013-03-14 01:25:16 <zechiel> So if I patched createrawtransaction to accept duplicate addresses, would anybody be interested? What is the procedure if I want to contribute?
 318 2013-03-14 01:25:27 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, it's funny that making bitcoind work on osx is an issue
 319 2013-03-14 01:25:48 <sipa> forgive me for making this comment, as i don't use OSX or know how to develop for it... but can't you just copy the script that builds the -Qt.app and do s/-Qt/d/ in it?
 320 2013-03-14 01:26:02 Dare has joined
 321 2013-03-14 01:26:13 <gavinandresen> sipa: no, app bundles are special-- they basically set the LD_LIBRARY_PATH automagically
 322 2013-03-14 01:26:22 <sipa> yes?
 323 2013-03-14 01:26:38 <gavinandresen> oh, you mean ship bitcoind as a bitcoind.app bundle ?
 324 2013-03-14 01:26:57 <sipa> oh, i thought that was the only way
 325 2013-03-14 01:27:07 <gavinandresen> no, you could ship a raw binary
 326 2013-03-14 01:27:12 <sipa> right
 327 2013-03-14 01:27:14 <jgarzik> zechiel: github pull request
 328 2013-03-14 01:27:17 <gavinandresen> … just have to get static versions of all the dependencies
 329 2013-03-14 01:27:23 <sipa> eww
 330 2013-03-14 01:27:28 <gavinandresen> … which is the work I'm not willing to do
 331 2013-03-14 01:27:37 <sipa> and as an .app, would it be usable?
 332 2013-03-14 01:27:51 stalled has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 333 2013-03-14 01:27:53 <gavinandresen> I don't know, never heard of a command-line-only .app
 334 2013-03-14 01:27:55 <sipa> as in: runnable from the command line and such
 335 2013-03-14 01:28:31 <gavinandresen> you have to use the 'open' command to open a .app in the Terminal
 336 2013-03-14 01:28:52 <gavinandresen> … because a .app is really just a directory with a special structure
 337 2013-03-14 01:28:56 <sipa> ok
 338 2013-03-14 01:29:02 <sipa> i retract my comment :)
 339 2013-03-14 01:29:04 <etotheipi_> Eliel_: I don't want to have to do emergency releases of Armory when Bitcoind/-qt has to be upgraded
 340 2013-03-14 01:29:24 jtimon has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 341 2013-03-14 01:29:46 <etotheipi_> or rather, I'd like to not be tied to the Bitcoin-Qt distribution/upgrade schedule
 342 2013-03-14 01:30:16 <etotheipi_> though, I can notify the user when new versions of Bitcoin-Qt are available
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 344 2013-03-14 01:32:55 <jgarzik> etotheipi_: how well does PyQt work on Windows?
 345 2013-03-14 01:33:02 stalled has joined
 346 2013-03-14 01:33:03 <etotheipi_> jgarzik: I'm happy with it
 347 2013-03-14 01:33:07 <jgarzik> I am pondering a cute little "transaction builder" python tool
 348 2013-03-14 01:33:11 <jgarzik> for use with bitcoind's raw API
 349 2013-03-14 01:33:15 manet has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 350 2013-03-14 01:33:32 <etotheipi_> it's very pleasant to develop GUIs with it
 351 2013-03-14 01:33:52 <etotheipi_> and I've only run into two non-negligible bugs related to Windows
 352 2013-03-14 01:34:08 BeagleSeven has quit (Quit: So long, and thanks for all the fish!)
 353 2013-03-14 01:34:08 <etotheipi_> and one of them is related to py2exe
 354 2013-03-14 01:34:24 cads has joined
 355 2013-03-14 01:34:44 <etotheipi_> QMovie doesn't work when the app is bundled via py2exe... it works when run as a python script, though
 356 2013-03-14 01:35:22 <etotheipi_> and background colors on a 1 or 2 widget types are broken, even with style sheets
 357 2013-03-14 01:35:36 <etotheipi_> so, basically ... nothing is really wrong with it
 358 2013-03-14 01:36:08 <etotheipi_> If you look through Armory code, there's very little OS-dependent branching...
 359 2013-03-14 01:36:54 <etotheipi_> you can search for "OS_WINDOWS"
 360 2013-03-14 01:37:11 <etotheipi_> to find the branch points
 361 2013-03-14 01:37:34 <zoinky> ;;ticker -- last
 362 2013-03-14 01:37:35 <gribble> (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg] [--currency XXX]) -- Return pretty-printed mtgox ticker. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure that the three letter code you enter is a valid currency (1 more message)
 363 2013-03-14 01:37:38 <zoinky> opz
 364 2013-03-14 01:37:42 <zoinky> ;;ticker
 365 2013-03-14 01:37:43 <gribble> BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 47.17601, Best ask: 47.19978, Bid-ask spread: 0.02377, Last trade: 47.19978, 24 hour volume: 48327.57782730, 24 hour low: 44.60000, 24 hour high: 47.29500, 24 hour vwap: 46.54590
 366 2013-03-14 01:38:18 <zoinky> can it stop moving im trying to make a purchase :P
 367 2013-03-14 01:38:43 <Scrat> etotheipi_: if you had a chance to rewrite the whole thing would you still go with PyQt?
 368 2013-03-14 01:38:52 <etotheipi_> Scrat: yes
 369 2013-03-14 01:39:14 <Scrat> I guess there aren't many alternatives
 370 2013-03-14 01:39:23 <etotheipi_> though I heard PySide should be considered because of licensing...
 371 2013-03-14 01:39:28 <etotheipi_> and it's mostly the same
 372 2013-03-14 01:39:31 <etotheipi_> but I never tried it
 373 2013-03-14 01:39:44 <etotheipi_> I heard lots of app can actually just swap out the imports and it works
 374 2013-03-14 01:40:32 <cads> etotheipi_: where do I recognize you from? Do you visit #haskell or #math?
 375 2013-03-14 01:40:40 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 376 2013-03-14 01:41:06 <etotheipi_> cads:  no
 377 2013-03-14 01:41:18 <etotheipi_> but someone else perpetually has etotheipi, which is why I'm etotheipi_
 378 2013-03-14 01:41:20 <sipa> cads: his nickname is rather mathematical, though :)
 379 2013-03-14 01:41:24 <Scrat> etotheipi_: completely ditching python also being an option
 380 2013-03-14 01:41:32 <etotheipi_> Scrat: I would never ditch python
 381 2013-03-14 01:41:36 <cads> sipa: ahaha
 382 2013-03-14 01:41:52 <cads> sipa: I didn't notice that. I read it like an egyptian name.
 383 2013-03-14 01:42:10 <sipa> cads: it took me half a year to realize it was not "Eto The Ipi"
 384 2013-03-14 01:42:17 <etotheipi_> I credit python for making Armory possible... it's 4x more efficient to do features, and 8x easier to catch corner cases, automatic error checking, etc
 385 2013-03-14 01:42:24 HM2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 386 2013-03-14 01:42:48 <Scrat> sipa: yeah me too, until I had a good look at his forum avatar
 387 2013-03-14 01:43:01 BTCTrader2 has quit (Quit: BTCTrader2)
 388 2013-03-14 01:43:04 <etotheipi_> that's why I changed my forum avatar... so many people didn't figure it out
 389 2013-03-14 01:43:24 <etotheipi_> and it seemed to fit in the armory logo, perfectly
 390 2013-03-14 01:43:51 <cads> etotheipi_: aha. the other etotheipi is indeed a #math regular
 391 2013-03-14 01:44:00 <etotheipi_> makes sense
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 393 2013-03-14 01:45:39 <sipa> cads: i think times have changed a bit, but there used to be lots of #haskell people here :)
 394 2013-03-14 01:46:09 <cads> was pleased to see you here :)
 395 2013-03-14 01:46:12 <sipa> (hell, i first learnt about bitcoin in #haskell-blah)
 396 2013-03-14 01:46:41 <cads> I'm not sure where I learned it first, but definitely have had some talks in good ole -blah
 397 2013-03-14 01:48:30 <Scrat> etotheipi_: not implying the use of C. although again the selection of interpreted runtimes with decent GUI libs that can run reasonably well cross platform is limited
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 402 2013-03-14 01:49:40 <etotheipi_> Scrat: though there is 10k lines of C++ for blockchain utilities...  and I actually do like C/C++
 403 2013-03-14 01:50:02 <etotheipi_> but those are just pieces of the puzzle, Python/PyQt puts it all together, and it's delightful
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 412 2013-03-14 01:53:15 <cads> hrm, how would a bitcoin chess gambling service keep players from using engines?
 413 2013-03-14 01:53:32 enikanorov has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 414 2013-03-14 01:53:42 <Scrat> cads: impossible
 415 2013-03-14 01:53:44 GMP has joined
 416 2013-03-14 01:53:58 <sipa> cads: CAPTCHA per move?
 417 2013-03-14 01:54:09 gritcoin has joined
 418 2013-03-14 01:54:18 <cads> even then, you could just sit next to the game entering captchas while your engine cranks :)
 419 2013-03-14 01:54:25 <sipa> right
 420 2013-03-14 01:54:32 <sipa> in that case: impossible
 421 2013-03-14 01:54:36 <cads> I have two ideas, neither of them very satisfying
 422 2013-03-14 01:54:47 enikanorov_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 423 2013-03-14 01:54:52 <cads> one is to let people use engines and human effort combined
 424 2013-03-14 01:55:07 <cads> a good player + an engine can utterly annihilate another engine
 425 2013-03-14 01:55:24 <Scrat> engines are so ahead that human influence will be infinitesimal
 426 2013-03-14 01:55:49 <cads> (this variant of human/machine chess was invented by none other than gary kasparov)
 427 2013-03-14 01:55:50 <sipa> cads: does that have anything to do with bitcoin at all, actually?
 428 2013-03-14 01:55:55 <cads> no, sorry
 429 2013-03-14 01:56:04 enikanorov has joined
 430 2013-03-14 01:56:17 <cads> I was thinking that maybe there's a scheme where people can put up bitcoins in case they're caught cheating
 431 2013-03-14 01:56:43 <Scrat> fidelity chess bonds :p
 432 2013-03-14 01:56:51 <cads> but it didn't occur to me this has practically nothing to do with btc, sorry :)
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 465 2013-03-14 02:38:07 <nanotube> cads: you can probably discuss it on #bitcoin, which is a bit more relaxed topic-wise. :)
 466 2013-03-14 02:39:17 <cads> yeah, I didn't realize I was polluting the channel until I reflected a second on my topic :D
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 482 2013-03-14 02:53:38 <EvilPointer> hello
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 484 2013-03-14 02:58:28 <tjader> Good bye.
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 491 2013-03-14 03:03:30 <nanotube> he was evil anyway....
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 498 2013-03-14 03:09:38 <inmyfree> hi
 499 2013-03-14 03:11:11 <theymos> Luke-Jr: I added that self-mod forum feature that I mentioned yesterday. You can enable it under "additional options" when creating a topic.
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 511 2013-03-14 03:18:19 <SchmalzTech> Hey everybody,  I was transferring coins between wallets and my transaction is stuck unconfirmed for almost 7 hours now. Is this anything to worry about? I am thinking I might have set the tx fee too low since it is a bigger tx. http://blockchain.info/tx-index/60351168/238253c8271ea81daf252146ca559110798f80b30f35239e0432d40cd332be1c
 512 2013-03-14 03:19:19 <thedman> hey guys, looking for a software engineer in seattle area that knows the bitcoin protocol that would be interested in joining a well financed startup, either as a partner or an employee
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 516 2013-03-14 03:21:41 <doublec> SchmalzTech: there's quite a few transactions backlogged ,your're probably just in the queue waiting for someone to pick it up
 517 2013-03-14 03:22:00 <gritcoin> thedman: I'd meet to talk about it out of curiosity. I meet all of your criteria, but the third one only weakly :)
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 519 2013-03-14 03:22:51 <thedman> gritcoin, sure even just to talk about the idea and how feasible it is.  you have some other obligations right now?
 520 2013-03-14 03:23:28 <SchmalzTech> Oh, ok.  So if I understand this correctly, when everyone gets to 0.8 the blocks can hold more txes and throughput might get better?
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 522 2013-03-14 03:24:27 <Luke-Jr> theymos: thanks
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 526 2013-03-14 03:26:48 <gmaxwell> SchmalzTech: no. The difference in the number of txn with and without the lock limit is not really significant.
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 530 2013-03-14 03:29:57 <SchmalzTech> Ok, thanks for the info!
 531 2013-03-14 03:31:37 zveda has joined
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 533 2013-03-14 03:32:55 <int03h_> why not just call it asicminer ?
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 535 2013-03-14 03:33:52 <petertodd> So it looks like enabling tx replacement like I suggested, that is replacement by a higher fee, more outputs, more inputs tx, will also enable trust-free transaction combining, useful to make transactions smaller among other things.
 536 2013-03-14 03:33:55 ProfMac has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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 538 2013-03-14 03:35:14 <petertodd> Basically, you write your transactions using SIGHASH_SINGLE | SIGHASH_ANYONECANPAY, and then others can add their own inputs and outputs to them. You can even later re-sign with SIGHASH_ALL, although I don't see why you would do that, maybe if you wanted to make it look like the transaction was authored by one person?
 539 2013-03-14 03:35:48 <petertodd> For smaller transactions it's easy to save 5% to 10% on fees, though overhead diminishes quickly.
 540 2013-03-14 03:36:22 <cyphase> i'm looking forward to all the cool stuff that will be done with scripts
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 550 2013-03-14 03:42:49 <gavinandresen> petertodd: … but you'd have to make all your transactions 2-input, 2-output unless you just happened to be sending an amount already in your wallet
 551 2013-03-14 03:43:11 scatha has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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 553 2013-03-14 03:44:33 <petertodd> gavinandresen: Yes, that part sucks. A range based sighhash option would make it more pratical.
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 556 2013-03-14 03:52:14 <maji> uggh
 557 2013-03-14 03:52:18 <maji> guys can i please get some help
 558 2013-03-14 03:52:35 <maji> i synchronized my wallet with blockchain.info and there was a .65 balance difference
 559 2013-03-14 03:52:40 bitcoin-dev851 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 560 2013-03-14 03:52:50 <maji> now when i try to send a transaction it says "insufficient funds"
 561 2013-03-14 03:52:55 <maji> im trying to send 8 bitcoins
 562 2013-03-14 03:53:02 <maji> i have 11 bitcoins on my blockchain account
 563 2013-03-14 03:53:03 <maji> WTF ?
 564 2013-03-14 03:53:58 <maji> OMG
 565 2013-03-14 03:54:02 <maji> 6 bitcoins just DISAPPEARED
 566 2013-03-14 03:54:05 <maji> WTF ?!!!!
 567 2013-03-14 03:54:45 <MKCoin> split wallet? :S
 568 2013-03-14 03:55:46 fiesh has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 569 2013-03-14 03:55:49 <maji> omg
 570 2013-03-14 03:55:51 <maji> im freaking out
 571 2013-03-14 03:56:11 <maji> what is a split wallet?
 572 2013-03-14 03:56:39 <doublec> what does "synchronized my wallet with blockchain.info" mean?
 573 2013-03-14 03:56:48 <maji> https://blockchain.info/address/1F23a8FYvP2QioC28QzcLL5Mz74ufndPvn
 574 2013-03-14 03:56:51 <maji> the coins went there
 575 2013-03-14 03:56:57 <maji> thats my wallet address
 576 2013-03-14 03:57:00 <maji> did my wallet get split ?
 577 2013-03-14 03:57:05 <maji> does that mean i lost my coins??
 578 2013-03-14 03:57:40 zechiel has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 579 2013-03-14 03:57:51 <doublec> maji: wallets don't have an address, they have many addresses
 580 2013-03-14 03:57:56 <hmmmstrange> is that your only address?
 581 2013-03-14 03:58:13 fiesh has joined
 582 2013-03-14 03:58:19 <doublec> maji: what does bitcoind say the balance of your wallet is?
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 584 2013-03-14 03:59:08 <maji> im using multibit
 585 2013-03-14 03:59:13 <maji> i dont know im refreshing with the network now
 586 2013-03-14 03:59:21 <maji> arrrrrgh
 587 2013-03-14 03:59:23 <maji> this is painful
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 590 2013-03-14 04:01:16 <maji> ok my wallet says i have 11.64 btc
 591 2013-03-14 04:01:19 <maji> which is the correct amount
 592 2013-03-14 04:01:23 <maji> blockchain doesn't say that
 593 2013-03-14 04:01:28 <maji> can someone tell me what happened
 594 2013-03-14 04:01:33 <maji> ims orry if this is noobish
 595 2013-03-14 04:01:37 <doublec> there is probably another address in your wallet with the rest
 596 2013-03-14 04:02:36 <doublec> do the transactions look right here: https://blockexplorer.com/address/1F23a8FYvP2QioC28QzcLL5Mz74ufndPvn
 597 2013-03-14 04:02:39 <doublec> are there any missing?
 598 2013-03-14 04:02:43 ronsunrise has joined
 599 2013-03-14 04:03:18 <hmmmstrange> i think multibit has multiple wallets as well
 600 2013-03-14 04:03:18 <doublec> that says that address has received 4 times, totalling 6.499 btc
 601 2013-03-14 04:04:11 <DBordello> jgarzik, are you running the latest avalon firmware?
 602 2013-03-14 04:07:10 <jgarzik> DBordello: I dunno, you tell me: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140539.msg1621531#msg1621531
 603 2013-03-14 04:07:51 <DBordello> jgarzik, you appear to be.  Does the cgminer status page show your pool information?
 604 2013-03-14 04:08:19 <hmmmstrange> maji: is 197yCsTLZyzWRtNU6ePtM88Vdnu2pTAwTf your address too? that would explain the missing coins
 605 2013-03-14 04:08:51 <MKCoin> I was thinking of a wallet cloning gone wrong
 606 2013-03-14 04:10:03 <bonks> Hi guys, what's the simplest way to transfer coins from a key pair?
 607 2013-03-14 04:10:26 <theymos> bonks: Probably Electrum.
 608 2013-03-14 04:10:40 thoughtcourier has joined
 609 2013-03-14 04:11:05 <bonks> Ok how about without downloading and indexing the blockchain?
 610 2013-03-14 04:12:05 <hmmmstrange> mtgox accepts key pair....
 611 2013-03-14 04:12:13 <randy-waterhouse> bonks: electrum client doesn't download the blockchain
 612 2013-03-14 04:12:13 gritcoin has quit (Quit: gritcoin)
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 614 2013-03-14 04:13:43 <bonks> randy-waterhouse: Oh I thought it did. I'll go check it out now then
 615 2013-03-14 04:14:05 <bonks> hmmmstrange: Basically I want to transfer some coins from an address on an untrusted computer
 616 2013-03-14 04:14:17 <bonks> So I don't want to log in anywhere
 617 2013-03-14 04:14:29 <maji> hmmmstrange yes thats my address
 618 2013-03-14 04:14:33 <maji> but i cant find the coins !
 619 2013-03-14 04:14:46 <maji> the balances are different
 620 2013-03-14 04:14:51 <maji> and it keeps splitting the transaction
 621 2013-03-14 04:15:03 <maji> https://blockchain.info/address/1F23a8FYvP2QioC28QzcLL5Mz74ufndPvn
 622 2013-03-14 04:15:10 <maji> i dont understand
 623 2013-03-14 04:15:13 <maji> why does it keep doing that
 624 2013-03-14 04:15:57 <maji> why is there a negative transaction
 625 2013-03-14 04:15:58 <maji> what the hell
 626 2013-03-14 04:17:09 <doublec> where  is this negative transaction that you see?
 627 2013-03-14 04:17:26 <MKCoin> maji did you have wallet clones operating at the same time?
 628 2013-03-14 04:17:31 <theymos> bonks: I'd definitely use Electrum for that. You can add the keypair and send immeidately.
 629 2013-03-14 04:17:36 <hmmmstrange> maji: your coins are not lost, we just need to know what you did
 630 2013-03-14 04:17:43 <maji> ok guys
 631 2013-03-14 04:17:46 <maji> sorry for the freakout
 632 2013-03-14 04:17:48 <maji> i think i got it
 633 2013-03-14 04:17:56 <maji> omg that was bad
 634 2013-03-14 04:17:59 <maji> i dont know what i did
 635 2013-03-14 04:18:02 <maji> the wallet somehow split
 636 2013-03-14 04:18:04 <hmmmstrange> a 5.6 transfer just went through
 637 2013-03-14 04:18:10 <maji> yeah i did that
 638 2013-03-14 04:18:26 <maji> its fixed guys
 639 2013-03-14 04:18:30 <maji> wow
 640 2013-03-14 04:18:30 <MKCoin> I didn't get to link what I was going to link :( [ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=fjkkom1l8mnr3lf7afs7fg0ml1&topic=5324.msg77896#msg77896 ]
 641 2013-03-14 04:18:37 <maji> i need to study up before attempting this
 642 2013-03-14 04:18:42 <maji> i would freak out if i lost those coins
 643 2013-03-14 04:18:49 <maji> thanks guys
 644 2013-03-14 04:18:52 <bonks> theymos: Yeah checking it out now. Looks like a nice standalone I can put on a thumb drive.  :) thanks!
 645 2013-03-14 04:18:56 <doublec> not sure if passing links with your session id in it is a good idea
 646 2013-03-14 04:18:57 <hmmmstrange> back up your wallet....
 647 2013-03-14 04:19:32 <MKCoin> doublec: I just copied the link from the wiki, so it's not my ID, heh
 648 2013-03-14 04:19:41 <MKCoin> I don't go to the forums
 649 2013-03-14 04:19:45 grau has joined
 650 2013-03-14 04:20:01 <doublec> heh :)
 651 2013-03-14 04:20:17 <MKCoin> wait, no the wiki link doesn't have that on there
 652 2013-03-14 04:20:43 <MKCoin> it was just added when I clicked that post specifically. Regardless I'm not registered :P
 653 2013-03-14 04:20:52 gritcoin has joined
 654 2013-03-14 04:21:04 <EvilPete> Why oh why oh why is the idea that end users need to downgrade to 0.7 in order to protect themselves still persisting?
 655 2013-03-14 04:21:24 coolsa has joined
 656 2013-03-14 04:22:09 <EvilPete> .. or that waiting for 0.8.1 will somehow make the bug in <= 0.7 go away
 657 2013-03-14 04:23:22 <randy-waterhouse> EvilPete: i guess they prefer to follow the mining power ... and not risk being left on a fork again  ...  who knows, it's a free market?
 658 2013-03-14 04:25:14 <RoboTeddy> EvilPete: or because people might've heard the "downgrade to 0.7" part of the announcement but not the "only miners" part
 659 2013-03-14 04:25:19 <jgarzik> +1
 660 2013-03-14 04:28:19 AtashiCon has quit (Quit: AtashiCon)
 661 2013-03-14 04:29:00 <EvilPete> There's lots of misinformation out there.. especially if you read things posted in some of the more reactionary parts of the internet..  not mentioning reddit at all. :)
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 665 2013-03-14 04:31:14 <EvilPete> Dumb question. http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/branches.html implies there's about 10k nodes.  my bitcoind has 12k stored addresses. Is there really that few bitcoind nodes?
 666 2013-03-14 04:31:40 <EvilPete> or do they only track a certain number?
 667 2013-03-14 04:32:45 <theymos> That sounds right for the number of reasonably active nodes.
 668 2013-03-14 04:34:03 <theymos> I'm not sure what most people use. MtGox maybe?
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 680 2013-03-14 04:42:44 <weex> blockchain.info has more than 100k registered users so maybe that
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 683 2013-03-14 04:46:12 <theymos> Maybe. That's not very good, since the vast majority of those people are using blockchain.info as an EWallet (ie. not using the browser plugin).
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 685 2013-03-14 04:47:12 <phantomcircuit> theymos, i thought everybody had their own private keys which were generated in javascript
 686 2013-03-14 04:47:24 <phantomcircuit> and the plugin was just used to verify the javascript hadn't changed?
 687 2013-03-14 04:47:47 <theymos> Right.
 688 2013-03-14 04:47:56 PlantMan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 689 2013-03-14 04:48:27 <theymos> So if blockchain.info is compromised, it's only better than an EWallet in that you have to visit blockchain.info after the compromise to be exposed.
 690 2013-03-14 04:49:20 <phantomcircuit> theymos, im pretty sure the plugin is useless
 691 2013-03-14 04:49:33 <theymos> It may be. I haven't looked into it.
 692 2013-03-14 04:50:25 <theymos> I really dislike the idea of doing anything security-sensitive with a Web browser.
 693 2013-03-14 04:50:27 <amiller> i thought the java script decrypted the private keys for you, you don't automatically have a backup in your browser cache or anything
 694 2013-03-14 04:51:10 <amiller> so if they went down you could lose all your coins if you haven't prepared a backup although they'd have a hard time selling the keys to someone
 695 2013-03-14 04:51:48 <theymos> You won't know when the site is compromised, so you'll enter your passphrase and they'll capture it.
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 698 2013-03-14 04:53:28 <amiller> yup that's for real a security
 699 2013-03-14 04:54:25 <theymos> Recently Electrum's model has been growing on me (for average end-users). It works very smoothly, and it should be pretty secure. The code seems a little disorganized, though.
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 702 2013-03-14 04:57:29 <phantomcircuit> theymos, the last time i checked the firefox plugin checks the javascript loaded but doesn't check inline javascript
 703 2013-03-14 04:57:36 <phantomcircuit> so it's basically useless
 704 2013-03-14 04:57:50 <amiller> what about android clients
 705 2013-03-14 04:57:55 <amiller> are there any other appish platforms like that
 706 2013-03-14 04:58:17 <amiller> i could imagine even having most computers run a little android emulator just to be able to use browserish apps that are a little more secure
 707 2013-03-14 04:58:23 <amiller> except i doubt that's much better
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 709 2013-03-14 04:58:33 <theymos> phantomcircuit: Yeah. Even if that was fixed, I wouldn't trust it totally because there *must* be ways of bypassing it. Browsers are huge.
 710 2013-03-14 04:58:39 TheSeven has joined
 711 2013-03-14 04:59:00 <phantomcircuit> theymos, javascript in css is my first thought
 712 2013-03-14 04:59:31 <weex> amiller: bitcoinspinner is a hybrid of sorts
 713 2013-03-14 04:59:41 <weex> the server just reports on addresses it knows about
 714 2013-03-14 04:59:48 <weex> the private key stays on the mobile device
 715 2013-03-14 05:00:02 <weex> unfortunately it only supports one address per mobile install
 716 2013-03-14 05:00:39 <weex> you can get plugins for either browser that checksum the javascript
 717 2013-03-14 05:00:58 <amiller> imo browsers are the only place there's any hope
 718 2013-03-14 05:01:15 <amiller> at least reasonable people like mozilla are working on this stuff and employing actual cryptographers
 719 2013-03-14 05:01:25 <phantomcircuit> https://blockchain.info/wallet/paper-tutorial
 720 2013-03-14 05:01:30 <weex> i think client-side encryption is a good opportunity to rethink many services
 721 2013-03-14 05:01:48 <amiller> phantomcircuit, yeah so doesn't it seem like blockchain.info does an excellent job of providing anything you'd need if you wanted to bother
 722 2013-03-14 05:02:19 <phantomcircuit> that's how it *seems*
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 724 2013-03-14 05:02:46 <amiller> like the users who are at the absolutely zero% convenience grandma level are maybe w/ev so the real differentiation is how a service like that helps people on the edge who might have a shot at security..
 725 2013-03-14 05:03:03 <weex> every time i add a key or make a change to the wallet it emails me a backup
 726 2013-03-14 05:03:15 <weex> and i have decrypted them before
 727 2013-03-14 05:03:53 <theymos> I think the ultimate Bitcoin wallet solution will be a cheap dedicated hardware device. That's the only way you can get real security.
 728 2013-03-14 05:04:08 <theymos> (Easily, at least.)
 729 2013-03-14 05:04:16 <amiller> is there an arduino bitcoin client
 730 2013-03-14 05:04:19 <amiller> or something like that
 731 2013-03-14 05:04:21 <phantomcircuit> aahahah
 732 2013-03-14 05:04:26 <amiller> arduino spv
 733 2013-03-14 05:04:33 <phantomcircuit> amiller, nope
 734 2013-03-14 05:04:34 <amiller> just a key signer and a garish hokey display
 735 2013-03-14 05:04:40 <phantomcircuit> but building one is certainly possible
 736 2013-03-14 05:04:42 <weex> i just wonder how i can trust such a device
 737 2013-03-14 05:04:53 <theymos> It should have a trusted platform module.
 738 2013-03-14 05:05:08 <phantomcircuit> lold
 739 2013-03-14 05:05:09 <amiller> it could come with a little action figure and a booklet with all the code you can enter into lego mindstorms and it will store your bitcoin keys and let you spend/check them
 740 2013-03-14 05:05:12 <gonffen_> weex: validate the code like you do anything else?
 741 2013-03-14 05:05:42 <theymos> It doesn't even need to know how to handle the network or hold much state. Just parse transactions, ask the user whether it's OK, and sign them.
 742 2013-03-14 05:05:56 <gonffen_> take arduino as an example, it's about $10 in require components
 743 2013-03-14 05:06:07 <gonffen_> required*
 744 2013-03-14 05:06:48 <gonffen_> you don't need a bootloader (of course you then need an ISP programmer or do serial programming or what have you)
 745 2013-03-14 05:07:08 <gonffen_> I would hope you could validate it...
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 749 2013-03-14 05:08:44 <phantomcircuit> gonffen_, wat
 750 2013-03-14 05:08:55 nimdAHK has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 751 2013-03-14 05:09:24 <gonffen_> sorry I was kind of rambling
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 753 2013-03-14 05:16:18 <randy-waterhouse> theymos: electrum has the "authenticating the server" weakness, but the wallet is easu for end users
 754 2013-03-14 05:16:27 <randy-waterhouse> s/easu/easy
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 757 2013-03-14 05:18:20 <theymos> It also downloads headers and does some SPV stuff to try to be more secure, though I don't know how effective it is at this. For average people, it isn't necessary to worry about double-spending attacks from Stratum servers.
 758 2013-03-14 05:19:04 <moartr4dez> I run my own stratum server just in case ;-)
 759 2013-03-14 05:19:24 <moartr4dez> but I do like the ability to run electrum on both android and a desktop... synchronized
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 761 2013-03-14 05:21:26 <randy-waterhouse> ;;block
 762 2013-03-14 05:21:27 <gribble> I do not know about 'block', but I do know about these similar topics: 'blockchainsnapshot'
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 769 2013-03-14 05:26:19 <jgarzik> Well, I'll be shit-stickered.
 770 2013-03-14 05:26:23 <jgarzik> bASIC refund arrived.
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 773 2013-03-14 05:27:54 <SomeoneWeird> jgarzik, wow
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 780 2013-03-14 05:32:06 <MKCoin> :o
 781 2013-03-14 05:34:35 <petertodd> jgarzik: Your ASIC gameplan is proving smarter every day.
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 783 2013-03-14 05:36:08 <jgarzik> should have put some bitcoins into ASICMINER, but alas.
 784 2013-03-14 05:36:18 * jgarzik stayed away from GLBSE in general
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 799 2013-03-14 05:48:05 <petertodd> jgarzik: GLBSE has been the only time I've lost money due to a scam; I put $100 in that zero-conf tx service thing.
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 811 2013-03-14 05:57:53 <Graet> jgarzik, i'm stunned - I have as well
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 813 2013-03-14 06:00:11 <coingenuity> petertodd: indeed, sum total that racket and a few others by the same guy yoinked 10k btc from the community, give or take
 814 2013-03-14 06:01:42 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
 815 2013-03-14 06:02:45 <petertodd> coingenuity: Nice, so funds were never returned right? I never bothered following it afterwords; $100 isn't enough to care.
 816 2013-03-14 06:03:03 <coingenuity> petertodd: nope
 817 2013-03-14 06:03:07 <coingenuity> no funds returned
 818 2013-03-14 06:03:39 <LameCoin-> what racket coin?
 819 2013-03-14 06:03:59 <coingenuity> LameCoin-: petertodd was talking about, i believe, what was it called....zipconf or something?
 820 2013-03-14 06:04:18 <coingenuity> some series of GLBSE ipo's by some dude that were all vaporware...
 821 2013-03-14 06:04:23 <DBordello> Indeed, it was zipconf.  I was in negotiations to integrate it with my service
 822 2013-03-14 06:04:34 <coingenuity> ah, so DBordello knows what's up
 823 2013-03-14 06:05:08 <DBordello> I don't think it was intended to be vaporware, it perhaps ended that way, but they had the service up
 824 2013-03-14 06:05:49 <petertodd> DBordello: Might not be a true scam then, just very badly done.
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 826 2013-03-14 06:06:35 <phantomcircuit> petertodd, or a well run scam
 827 2013-03-14 06:07:37 <petertodd> phantomcircuit: Yes, have DBordello telling everyone how legit they are. :P
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 837 2013-03-14 06:15:05 <amiller> why not have most mining pools run as many different client implementations as possible
 838 2013-03-14 06:15:05 * jgarzik kicks tmpfs
 839 2013-03-14 06:15:15 <amiller> and have a little front end that checks for consistency between them
 840 2013-03-14 06:15:17 * jgarzik starts rebuilding his 0.7.2 node database
 841 2013-03-14 06:15:28 Cache_Money1 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 842 2013-03-14 06:15:33 <jgarzik> (will have blk*.dat at block X-1, for chain fork study)
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 846 2013-03-14 06:18:25 <petertodd> jgarzik: working on those unittests I promised... I hate to bikeshed, but would you consider using spaces vs. tabs in bitcoinlib? It's just far more common in Python and I think it'll trip a lot of people up, including myself.
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 848 2013-03-14 06:20:00 <jgarzik> petertodd: the code commonly found in the python world is ugly :)
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 850 2013-03-14 06:20:29 <jgarzik> petertodd: I can script the conversion of your contributions, if need be
 851 2013-03-14 06:20:34 <petertodd> jgarzik: Yes, but it's what's found in the Python world. If they used tabs I'd do that.
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 854 2013-03-14 06:21:04 <petertodd> jgarzik: Frankly I added the needed mods to my vimrc and what not, but as I say, I suspect it'll be something lots of people run into.
 855 2013-03-14 06:21:17 <petertodd> jgarzik: Just easier to change before you get a bunch of contributors.
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 857 2013-03-14 06:21:41 <jgarzik> petertodd: feel pretty strongly on the issue :)
 858 2013-03-14 06:22:37 <petertodd> jgarzik: Heh, well, I'll just have to write enough code for it that I can outvote you. :P
 859 2013-03-14 06:22:45 <jgarzik> that works :)
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 868 2013-03-14 06:37:24 <LameCoin-> why does it still take hours to download the blockchain in 2013?
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 873 2013-03-14 06:44:47 <gritcoin> Only real issue is merging into a python codebase if you tab, the existing code doesn't, and your tab size is different than the codebase's # of spaces / indent level.
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 911 2013-03-14 07:37:22 <random_cat> Is it possible to tunbe memory use in v0.8.0-dirty-beta (2013-02-18 18:38:34 -0500)
 912 2013-03-14 07:37:32 <random_cat> s/tunbe/tune/
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 917 2013-03-14 07:44:15 <warren> [testnet@woop ~]$ bitcoind getdifficulty
 918 2013-03-14 07:44:15 <warren> 4.00000000
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 920 2013-03-14 07:45:10 <sivu> i was wondering why i suddenly have 1500btc on testnet
 921 2013-03-14 07:45:24 <sivu> with cpu miner
 922 2013-03-14 07:46:02 Cache_Money has joined
 923 2013-03-14 07:46:16 <warren> I've been mining a day on testnet and I have nothing.
 924 2013-03-14 07:46:41 space_cadet has joined
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 927 2013-03-14 07:47:58 <sivu> warren, i'm stealing all the blocks with my mighty 2MH/s! buahhaha
 928 2013-03-14 07:48:31 <warren> I did use cpulimit at 5% though. =)
 929 2013-03-14 07:48:33 <sivu> warren, give your testnet address, i'll send you some
 930 2013-03-14 07:48:47 <warren> I rather play the lottery.
 931 2013-03-14 07:49:08 <warren> sivu: mobrqr83QWM9iaavMsrVHZ1Mi3WH334sv9
 932 2013-03-14 07:49:55 <sivu> done
 933 2013-03-14 07:50:19 <warren> thanks
 934 2013-03-14 07:50:25 <warren> not sure what I'll do with it
 935 2013-03-14 07:50:42 Cache_Money has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 936 2013-03-14 07:51:19 <sivu> you can print notes with 0.0001 btc value and then roll in them
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 940 2013-03-14 07:53:40 <warren> perhaps a dice game
 941 2013-03-14 07:53:47 <warren> with dust returns
 942 2013-03-14 07:53:53 <sivu> send unneeded coins to http://testnet.mojocoin.com/
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1007 2013-03-14 09:23:31 <Unflux> hi fellows!
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1100 2013-03-14 11:13:09 MiningBuddy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1101 2013-03-14 11:13:13 gggg has joined
1102 2013-03-14 11:13:28 <gggg> Hello everybody
1103 2013-03-14 11:13:42 MiningBuddy has joined
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1105 2013-03-14 11:13:42 MiningBuddy has joined
1106 2013-03-14 11:14:32 <gggg> 10 minutes ago,i found site that gives bitcoins for free.It will be active till 24:00. I took 2 bitcoins there))))Here is download link,for more information,there is manual,how to use, i wrote it))
1107 2013-03-14 11:14:53 <CodeShark> scammers aren't welcome here. please die
1108 2013-03-14 11:15:07 <gggg> 10 minutes ago,i found site that gives bitcoins for free.It will be active till 24:00. I took 2 bitcoins there))))Here is download link,for more information,there is manual,how to use, i wrote it))
1109 2013-03-14 11:15:10 gggg has quit (Client Quit)
1110 2013-03-14 11:15:18 <Happzz> lol?
1111 2013-03-14 11:15:19 * Scrat runs freebitcoins.exe
1112 2013-03-14 11:15:39 <Happzz> Scrat don't waste your bandwidth, just gimme your bitcoins..
1113 2013-03-14 11:15:47 <Scrat> im poor
1114 2013-03-14 11:15:56 <gritcoin> oh, they have .exe domains now?
1115 2013-03-14 11:16:13 pegu has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1116 2013-03-14 11:16:14 <gritcoin> ^_^
1117 2013-03-14 11:16:58 <Scrat> what's worse than a scammer? a scammer that doesn't even try to scam you. he forgot his website address
1118 2013-03-14 11:16:59 RBecker is now known as rbecker
1119 2013-03-14 11:17:41 <Happzz> lol
1120 2013-03-14 11:17:43 <Scrat> or rather tries and fails miserably
1121 2013-03-14 11:17:49 <Happzz> funny.
1122 2013-03-14 11:18:08 pegu has joined
1123 2013-03-14 11:18:59 <Unflux> rofl
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1128 2013-03-14 11:20:59 sss has joined
1129 2013-03-14 11:21:03 <sss> 10 minutes ago,i found site that gives bitcoins for free.It will be active till 24:00. I took 2 bitcoins there))))Here is download link,for more information,there is manual,how to use, i wrote it)) http://rghost.ru/44489583
1130 2013-03-14 11:21:05 <sss> 10 minutes ago,i found site that gives bitcoins for free.It will be active till 24:00. I took 2 bitcoins there))))Here is download link,for more information,there is manual,how to use, i wrote it)) http://rghost.ru/44489583
1131 2013-03-14 11:21:50 <Scrat> sss: get a better domain
1132 2013-03-14 11:22:07 <sss> sss,why&
1133 2013-03-14 11:22:08 <sss> ?
1134 2013-03-14 11:22:14 <Scrat> oh snap
1135 2013-03-14 11:22:16 <Scrat> it replied
1136 2013-03-14 11:23:05 MiningBuddy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1137 2013-03-14 11:23:27 <sss> ok
1138 2013-03-14 11:23:37 <sss> but really this programm is working
1139 2013-03-14 11:23:41 <sss> free bitcoins
1140 2013-03-14 11:23:43 MiningBuddy has joined
1141 2013-03-14 11:23:46 <sss> http://rghost.net/44489583
1142 2013-03-14 11:24:21 MiningBuddy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1143 2013-03-14 11:24:40 MiningBuddy has joined
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1150 2013-03-14 11:32:04 <Unflux> SSS his ip 95.35.63.224
1151 2013-03-14 11:32:28 <Unflux> Country:	Israel
1152 2013-03-14 11:32:28 <Unflux> Latitude:	 31.5  (31° 30′ 0.00″ N)
1153 2013-03-14 11:32:28 <Unflux> Longitude:	 34.75  (34° 45′ 0.00″ E)
1154 2013-03-14 11:32:30 <Unflux> ROFL
1155 2013-03-14 11:32:56 <Happzz> whose?
1156 2013-03-14 11:33:06 <Happzz> ah the spammer
1157 2013-03-14 11:33:09 <Unflux> SSS the scammer/spammer
1158 2013-03-14 11:33:50 <Unflux> I should trow a DDoS of 5Gbit to his little home router
1159 2013-03-14 11:34:08 <area> freebitcoins.exe sounds totally legit
1160 2013-03-14 11:34:19 graingert has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1161 2013-03-14 11:34:21 <Unflux> hha
1162 2013-03-14 11:34:45 <Happzz> weird
1163 2013-03-14 11:34:46 <Unflux> im analyzing it right now haha
1164 2013-03-14 11:34:55 <Happzz> me too
1165 2013-03-14 11:34:55 <Happzz> https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/1d4951ed629b64320a258cfb002a28532f558f3c2944516a0db6b7277cd1d997/analysis/1363259573/
1166 2013-03-14 11:34:56 <Happzz> lol
1167 2013-03-14 11:35:23 voodster has joined
1168 2013-03-14 11:35:47 kalleboo_ is now known as away!~kalleboo@i125-204-93-9.s11.a046.ap.plala.or.jp|kalleboo_
1169 2013-03-14 11:35:52 zechiel has joined
1170 2013-03-14 11:36:33 <Unflux> haha
1171 2013-03-14 11:36:40 <Unflux> its a miner
1172 2013-03-14 11:36:41 <Unflux> rofls
1173 2013-03-14 11:37:27 <kinlo> a cpu miner probably :)
1174 2013-03-14 11:37:33 <Unflux> im analyzing it now in a virtual machine
1175 2013-03-14 11:37:36 graingert has joined
1176 2013-03-14 11:37:46 <Unflux> let's see which pool it uses
1177 2013-03-14 11:37:49 <pierre`> anubis report incoming
1178 2013-03-14 11:38:59 <Unflux> mine is at 30% :) http://anubis.iseclab.org/?action=result&task_id=17c7c4eb3e85007443d0918972fb832b0
1179 2013-03-14 11:39:02 <Happzz> 1 file, 9kb miner? nice.
1180 2013-03-14 11:39:09 <pierre`> 20% mine :D
1181 2013-03-14 11:39:11 <Unflux> 104kb
1182 2013-03-14 11:39:22 BTCOxygen has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1183 2013-03-14 11:39:32 Ashaman has joined
1184 2013-03-14 11:39:37 <Happzz> uhm
1185 2013-03-14 11:39:42 <Happzz> did you extract the initial .exe?
1186 2013-03-14 11:39:46 <Happzz> it's a self-extract one
1187 2013-03-14 11:39:51 Ashaman has quit (Client Quit)
1188 2013-03-14 11:39:52 <Unflux> its a hijacked .exe
1189 2013-03-14 11:39:58 <Unflux> it will execute immediatly
1190 2013-03-14 11:40:00 <Happzz> a stupid .jpg and some "btc.exe" inside
1191 2013-03-14 11:40:27 <Happzz> you're scanning the wrong file o_o
1192 2013-03-14 11:40:32 <Unflux> happzz coud you upload the btc.exe ?
1193 2013-03-14 11:40:35 Ashaman has joined
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1195 2013-03-14 11:40:51 <Happzz> Unflux i removed it already, but right click and "extract to.." with winrar or something
1196 2013-03-14 11:41:05 <Happzz> you'll get a small .jpg and a 9kb btc.exe file
1197 2013-03-14 11:41:14 BTCOxygen has joined
1198 2013-03-14 11:41:20 <Unflux> nxt time Happzz, be carefully with extracting :)
1199 2013-03-14 11:41:23 <Unflux> it could be hijacked
1200 2013-03-14 11:41:46 <pierre`> $ unzip free-btc.bin
1201 2013-03-14 11:41:49 <pierre`> Archive:  free-btc.bin
1202 2013-03-14 11:41:49 <pierre`> ;The comment below contains SFX script commands
1203 2013-03-14 11:41:51 <Happzz> HKU\​S-1-5-21-842925246-1425521274-308236825-500\​Software\​WinRAR SFX
1204 2013-03-14 11:41:54 <pierre`> Shortcut=T, btc.exe, , , system,  inflating: btc.exe                  inflating: b.jpg
1205 2013-03-14 11:42:00 <Unflux> nice
1206 2013-03-14 11:42:02 <Happzz> ^ like i said
1207 2013-03-14 11:42:25 <Unflux> Command Line:	"C:\free-btc.e.exe"
1208 2013-03-14 11:43:21 TD has joined
1209 2013-03-14 11:44:14 <Unflux> Happzz did u extract the .exe?
1210 2013-03-14 11:44:17 <Unflux> then your infected ;)
1211 2013-03-14 11:44:27 <Unflux> because it automaticly runs the btc.ee
1212 2013-03-14 11:44:30 <Happzz> Unflux ya
1213 2013-03-14 11:44:30 <Unflux> .exe*
1214 2013-03-14 11:44:39 <Happzz> i didn't extract it like you think
1215 2013-03-14 11:44:47 <Happzz> i told winrar to manually extrac it
1216 2013-03-14 11:44:49 <Happzz> not using the SFX
1217 2013-03-14 11:44:58 <Unflux> double-click, or rightmouse button. it will run both actions in memory
1218 2013-03-14 11:45:02 <Happzz> no
1219 2013-03-14 11:45:09 <Unflux> ok
1220 2013-03-14 11:45:21 <Happzz> try it in your VM
1221 2013-03-14 11:45:26 latgarf has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1222 2013-03-14 11:45:26 <Happzz> right click, and extract to.. with winrar
1223 2013-03-14 11:48:11 <kinlo> so, which pool does it use?
1224 2013-03-14 11:48:13 daybyter has joined
1225 2013-03-14 11:48:16 <pierre`> 31.170.160.129.21
1226 2013-03-14 11:48:35 <kinlo> those are a lot of digits
1227 2013-03-14 11:48:45 <pierre`> tcpdump output
1228 2013-03-14 11:48:47 <pierre`> so 31.170.160.129:21
1229 2013-03-14 11:48:50 <kinlo> ic
1230 2013-03-14 11:49:14 <kinlo> oh well, not my pool, moving on
1231 2013-03-14 11:49:28 <pierre`> no no
1232 2013-03-14 11:49:29 <pierre`> :)
1233 2013-03-14 11:49:32 <pierre`> ftp
1234 2013-03-14 11:49:34 <pierre`> User: a8619903 (id ok)
1235 2013-03-14 11:49:36 <pierre`> Password: ftorftor2013 (logged in)
1236 2013-03-14 11:49:44 Ashaman has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1237 2013-03-14 11:50:01 <kinlo> oh, it's uploadeing wallet.dat's?
1238 2013-03-14 11:50:03 <kinlo> not mining?
1239 2013-03-14 11:50:14 Ashaman has joined
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1241 2013-03-14 11:50:31 Ashaman has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1243 2013-03-14 11:52:16 <doublec> 7 blocks in a row by btc guild earlier. that's the biggest run I've seen in a while.
1244 2013-03-14 11:52:41 dust-otc has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1245 2013-03-14 11:52:42 <doublec> 225733-225739
1246 2013-03-14 11:53:51 eklass has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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1252 2013-03-14 12:04:54 <Unflux> pierre` how'd u get that information?
1253 2013-03-14 12:05:15 <RoboTedd_> Unflux: i think he saw that his VM connected there, by packet capture
1254 2013-03-14 12:05:27 Muis__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1255 2013-03-14 12:05:42 <Unflux> yep
1256 2013-03-14 12:05:53 <Unflux> VMware exlusion ( its a piece of code which malware uses )
1257 2013-03-14 12:06:01 <Unflux> im a malware writer too ( for analyses
1258 2013-03-14 12:09:06 <warren> pierre`: upload a valid wallet with 0.1 BTC and see where it goes
1259 2013-03-14 12:09:34 graingert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1261 2013-03-14 12:09:43 <wrabbit> 0.001
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1263 2013-03-14 12:17:49 HANTI is now known as hanti
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1267 2013-03-14 12:20:03 <gritcoin> Compilation timedatestamp.....: 2011-07-02 13:36:03
1268 2013-03-14 12:21:13 TradeFortress has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1269 2013-03-14 12:21:47 <gritcoin> ftorftor@rambler.ru ?
1270 2013-03-14 12:22:12 <gritcoin> (based on ftp password)
1271 2013-03-14 12:22:52 Bwild has joined
1272 2013-03-14 12:24:06 onthestairs has quit (Client Quit)
1273 2013-03-14 12:24:16 <Unflux> should be
1274 2013-03-14 12:24:20 onthestairs has joined
1275 2013-03-14 12:24:22 <Unflux> but there is no file in the ftp
1276 2013-03-14 12:24:25 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1277 2013-03-14 12:25:57 eklass has joined
1278 2013-03-14 12:26:14 <gritcoin> +7 380672702967
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1326 2013-03-14 13:12:10 <pierre`> Unflux: && warren : tcpdump + analysis of the binary (everything is cleartext, duh)
1327 2013-03-14 13:12:45 safra has joined
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1329 2013-03-14 13:13:19 <pierre`> you can find ftor.netau.net, a8619903 && ftorftor2013 instantly
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1344 2013-03-14 13:25:12 kanoi_ is now known as kanoi
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1354 2013-03-14 13:39:25 Unflux has joined
1355 2013-03-14 13:39:37 <Unflux> I'm back ^,0
1356 2013-03-14 13:40:47 denisx has joined
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1372 2013-03-14 14:00:48 Wiss has left ("Bye!")
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1381 2013-03-14 14:07:56 <monkeynipples> Hi - is there any documentation on how transactions are formed?
1382 2013-03-14 14:08:29 Casimir1904 has joined
1383 2013-03-14 14:08:57 <n1c> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transactions ?
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1389 2013-03-14 14:14:53 <MC1984_> how is transaction formed?
1390 2013-03-14 14:14:58 <MC1984_> how chain get bloated?
1391 2013-03-14 14:15:23 <sipa> they need to do way instain dice
1392 2013-03-14 14:16:16 <Scrat> with develveops who writee crappy codfe becsue code dont figth back
1393 2013-03-14 14:16:44 graingert__ has joined
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1397 2013-03-14 14:17:50 <gmaxwell> they are takking three trasfracons bak to genesis to rest with the orphan who wat reorged.
1398 2013-03-14 14:17:55 i2pRelay has joined
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1400 2013-03-14 14:18:29 <SomeoneWeird> wut
1401 2013-03-14 14:19:03 Wiss has joined
1402 2013-03-14 14:19:11 <jouke> gmaxwell went to far. Anyone knows you shouldn't go full retard. :P
1403 2013-03-14 14:19:21 <SomeoneWeird> he's probably drunk
1404 2013-03-14 14:19:33 <SomeoneWeird> can't blame him
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1409 2013-03-14 14:20:56 <gmaxwell> At IETF, same difference.
1410 2013-03-14 14:21:26 <SomeoneWeird> luls
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1445 2013-03-14 14:44:25 torsthaldo_ is now known as torsthaldo
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1448 2013-03-14 14:48:37 <helo> is it simply a coincidence that poolsz seems to have been higher since the network incident?
1449 2013-03-14 14:48:43 kadoban has joined
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1451 2013-03-14 14:49:08 <kinlo> what do you mean by "to have been higher" ?
1452 2013-03-14 14:49:10 <TD> no, of course not
1453 2013-03-14 14:49:12 <helo> there have been plenty of blocks recently, and none of the last several were even close to 250kb
1454 2013-03-14 14:49:32 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1455 2013-03-14 14:49:51 <TD> the small blocks tend to be blocks that were found very close together
1456 2013-03-14 14:50:03 i2pRelay has joined
1457 2013-03-14 14:50:06 <TD> many of the pending transactions don't have enough priority to get into blocks or are dependent on other unconfirmed transactions
1458 2013-03-14 14:50:09 banghouse3 is now known as banghouse
1459 2013-03-14 14:50:11 <TD> some pools don't include SD transactions, etc
1460 2013-03-14 14:50:39 banghouse is now known as Guest32701
1461 2013-03-14 14:50:45 <TD> in other cases the pools have restarted their nodes and didn't see all the transactions that are pending
1462 2013-03-14 14:51:24 <Scrat> txns from the fork still pending?
1463 2013-03-14 14:51:33 <TD> it's not related to the fork
1464 2013-03-14 14:51:35 Guest32701 is now known as banghouse
1465 2013-03-14 14:51:49 <jouke> Arent transactions resubmitted once in a while?
1466 2013-03-14 14:52:01 <TD> we're back to the same situation we were at before the block size increase - lots of transactions waiting to be confirmed.
1467 2013-03-14 14:52:01 <helo> poolsz was growing (consistently over 1000), with most blocks being ~243kb, and then gavin suggested miners evaluate their -blockmaxsize settings. poolsz (~average) seemed to be <500 after that.
1468 2013-03-14 14:52:12 <kinlo> jouke: by the client that originated them.  Client offline = no resubmitting
1469 2013-03-14 14:52:24 <jouke> kinlo: right!
1470 2013-03-14 14:52:28 <TD> jouke: satoshis client does that. bitcoinj does that. however lots of these transactions are coming from, eg, satoshidice
1471 2013-03-14 14:52:35 <TD> or blockchain or whatever. which may or may not do that.
1472 2013-03-14 14:52:41 <helo> now average poolsz seems to be >1000, but blocks aren't even at the old softlimit
1473 2013-03-14 14:52:46 <TD> pools could sync mempools if they wanted to
1474 2013-03-14 14:53:15 <kinlo> TD: that's tricky business, there is no implementation for that afaik
1475 2013-03-14 14:53:16 <helo> this isn't based on a careful sample or anything, just what i've noticed from glancing at tail |grep poolsz
1476 2013-03-14 14:53:21 <TD> yeah, our insight into memory pool/miner behaviour is very poor. it's not clear if that's deliberate or because the mempool is full of old txns that are hanging around for a long time
1477 2013-03-14 14:53:34 <Scrat> so there should be some huge unconfirmed chains building up now (b.i will happily send unconfirmed)
1478 2013-03-14 14:53:50 <TD> it won't force you to wait for confirmations? tsk
1479 2013-03-14 14:53:58 <TD> no wonder it's getting popular ... :)
1480 2013-03-14 14:54:20 Unflux has quit ()
1481 2013-03-14 14:54:23 <TD> visualization tools for the mempool along with their calculated priorities would be wonderful
1482 2013-03-14 14:54:28 <TD> unfortunately b.i does not show priority
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1489 2013-03-14 14:58:51 skinnkavaj has joined
1490 2013-03-14 14:58:54 <skinnkavaj> cool stuff! http://bitcoinchain.com/
1491 2013-03-14 14:59:09 Anduck has joined
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1495 2013-03-14 15:00:59 <helo> i should have written a blockchain/reorg/blockform/doublespend visualizer when i was thinking about it last year
1496 2013-03-14 15:01:09 AdamBLevine has joined
1497 2013-03-14 15:02:27 <helo> would have been pretty neat to see the competing chains and reorg
1498 2013-03-14 15:02:40 gwinter has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1499 2013-03-14 15:03:12 <AdamBLevine> Hi guys, just wanted to pop in to say the story I was writing (Financial Crisis Revealed And Resolved In The World of Bitcoin) is now posted on the front page of www.endthelie.com - Thanks for the time and help from Gavin, G-Maxwell, JGarzik, sipa and LukeJr (and anyone else who helped with the edit)
1500 2013-03-14 15:03:12 <TD> skinnkavaj: nice!
1501 2013-03-14 15:03:15 <TD> skinnkavaj: where'd you find that ?
1502 2013-03-14 15:03:42 <TD> i think this is my new favourite analytics site
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1510 2013-03-14 15:08:49 <Scrat> AdamBLevine: nice, an arcticle that gets technical facts straight
1511 2013-03-14 15:10:21 <AdamBLevine> Scrat: That was the intent, It's a fine line to walk between technical accuracy and not reading like a technical manual
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1514 2013-03-14 15:11:40 <jouke> AdamBLevine: great read :)
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1519 2013-03-14 15:14:41 <AdamBLevine> jouke: Thank you!  I'm doing some writing for MAKEmagazine in the next few weeks and trying to figure out an angle to write about bitcoin for them
1520 2013-03-14 15:15:27 <AdamBLevine> Anyone have a cool bitcoin related (but still involves something physical) project they want to talk about, I'd love to talk adam@mindtomatter.org
1521 2013-03-14 15:15:55 i2pRelay has joined
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1523 2013-03-14 15:16:52 <helo> AdamBLevine: "somequestions"?
1524 2013-03-14 15:17:07 <monkeynipples> AdamBLevine:  you mean like the bitcoin atm? thats a physical project
1525 2013-03-14 15:17:09 <AdamBLevine> helo: yes
1526 2013-03-14 15:17:14 <monkeynipples> or the upcoming hardware wallet
1527 2013-03-14 15:17:35 <monkeynipples> AdamBLevine:  http://bitcoincard.org/ sponsoring bitcoin2013 conference
1528 2013-03-14 15:17:39 <AdamBLevine> MAKE is about making stuff, but they also get into not so DIY tech if it's futuristic and interesting
1529 2013-03-14 15:18:02 n1c has quit (Quit: peace)
1530 2013-03-14 15:18:07 <AdamBLevine> they haven't ever talked about bitcoin, I think - So it would be good to find a subject to pitch them an article about
1531 2013-03-14 15:18:11 <AdamBLevine> new audience
1532 2013-03-14 15:18:22 <monkeynipples> you could show them how to make a hardware bitcoin wallet using rapsberry pi and a radio?
1533 2013-03-14 15:18:24 <AdamBLevine> monkeynipples: Are they getting far?
1534 2013-03-14 15:18:37 <AdamBLevine> monkeynipples: Yes, that sounds about right
1535 2013-03-14 15:18:46 Neskia is now known as Nesetalis
1536 2013-03-14 15:19:08 <monkeynipples> I'd love to read an articlle about making a walletsize bitcoin client
1537 2013-03-14 15:19:13 kadoban has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1538 2013-03-14 15:19:30 <monkeynipples> or atm
1539 2013-03-14 15:19:34 <monkeynipples> an atm*
1540 2013-03-14 15:19:43 epilido has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1541 2013-03-14 15:19:44 <helo> DIY bitcoin qr-code-payment point of sale?
1542 2013-03-14 15:20:06 <monkeynipples> helo: theres gotta be ab etter way than qr code
1543 2013-03-14 15:20:18 Anduck has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1544 2013-03-14 15:20:28 <BTCOxygen> Anybody seen [Tycho]  ?
1545 2013-03-14 15:20:49 <BTCOxygen> [~Tycho]@unaffiliated/tycho/x-5664265] has quit IRC: Read error: Operation timed out
1546 2013-03-14 15:20:59 <BTCOxygen> ^^^^ anybody seen him after this?
1547 2013-03-14 15:21:00 <helo> vendor enters total; display shows qr code of bitcoin: uri for user to pay to?
1548 2013-03-14 15:21:19 <AdamBLevine> Honestly i'm more a features writer than a process writer
1549 2013-03-14 15:21:20 <monkeynipples> yeh i guess its not bad
1550 2013-03-14 15:21:37 <AdamBLevine> So I'd be looking to write *about* someone building that
1551 2013-03-14 15:21:50 <helo> qr-code or NFC perhaps
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1554 2013-03-14 15:22:46 <blkashdla> iphone bitcoin wallet?
1555 2013-03-14 15:22:54 <AdamBLevine> When I first saw QR codes I thought they were shit and would never catch on, but now I appreciate them quite a bit
1556 2013-03-14 15:22:59 <TD> the android wallet already supports both qrcodes and NFC
1557 2013-03-14 15:23:08 <TD> and in future bluetooth transfers for the payment protocol will be added, i think
1558 2013-03-14 15:23:17 i2pRelay has joined
1559 2013-03-14 15:23:41 <AdamBLevine> What could you do with a wallet built on a raspberry pi and a radio?  What could you do if lots of people had them?
1560 2013-03-14 15:23:45 <helo> AdamBLevine: with bitcoin addresses being such a pain to type, it's a pretty good fit
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1564 2013-03-14 15:26:21 <jouke> does anyone by chance know if it is possible to get a blockhash through jsonRPC with the 0.3-client?
1565 2013-03-14 15:26:39 <monkeynipples> blkashdla: my team is working on one
1566 2013-03-14 15:26:55 <monkeynipples> and android too (of course)
1567 2013-03-14 15:27:29 simon872 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1568 2013-03-14 15:27:39 <gavinandresen> jouke: 0.3 ?  oof… no, I think all of the lower level RPC routines were added after 0.3
1569 2013-03-14 15:27:47 bitcache is now known as bitcache|Away
1570 2013-03-14 15:27:47 <jouke> ok, thanks :)
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1576 2013-03-14 15:31:47 <blkashdla> monkeynipples: cool, need any help :)
1577 2013-03-14 15:32:12 <monkeynipples> nah pretty good, should have a public beta out before the conference
1578 2013-03-14 15:32:24 <SomeoneWeird> .3
1579 2013-03-14 15:32:25 <SomeoneWeird> 0_o
1580 2013-03-14 15:33:35 <blkashdla> monkeynipples: anywhere i can checkout more info?
1581 2013-03-14 15:34:41 Diablo-D3 has joined
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1591 2013-03-14 15:36:24 <monkeynipples> blkashdla: haven't launched website, i'm putting up a placeholder today actually
1592 2013-03-14 15:36:37 variousnefarious has joined
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1605 2013-03-14 15:39:11 <blkashdla> cool. looking forward to it :)
1606 2013-03-14 15:40:21 <monkeynipples> :)
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1612 2013-03-14 15:43:50 <cyphase> hmmm? http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/onepercent/2013/03/bitcoin-zerocoin.html
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1631 2013-03-14 16:01:30 <jgarzik> AdamBLevine: alas, your link never loads
1632 2013-03-14 16:01:49 testnode9 has joined
1633 2013-03-14 16:02:01 <jgarzik> AdamBLevine: browser here has been waiting for endthelie.com for > 10 minutes
1634 2013-03-14 16:02:11 <MC-Droid> didnt someone have a mesh network noticing card thing once
1635 2013-03-14 16:02:27 <MC-Droid> Bitcoin
1636 2013-03-14 16:02:40 fposdkgs is now known as Transisto
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1638 2013-03-14 16:04:02 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
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1642 2013-03-14 16:05:35 <jgarzik> hah!  A litecoin FPGA in the works: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152555.0
1643 2013-03-14 16:05:58 <MC-Droid> LOL
1644 2013-03-14 16:06:14 <MC-Droid> now everyone can have one not just artfors
1645 2013-03-14 16:06:19 <epscy> litecoin is such a joke
1646 2013-03-14 16:06:36 rbecker is now known as RBecker
1647 2013-03-14 16:06:43 <epscy> sad because a hardfork of bitcoin could be awesome
1648 2013-03-14 16:07:21 hsmithsN7 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1651 2013-03-14 16:07:59 <AdamBLevine> @jgarzik: I've noticed that too, sometimes the connection to their server hangs for no apparent reason, and it's fairly slow at other times -  It does load though, just clear your cache and give it a go - This is the direct link to the story, but its on the front page too http://endthelie.com/2013/03/13/financial-crisis-revealed-and-resolved-in-the-world-of-bitcoin/
1652 2013-03-14 16:08:48 <monkeynipples> cyphase: zerocoin sounded interesting until they said they'd buidl in a backdoor, wtf!
1653 2013-03-14 16:09:13 <monkeynipples> because nobody else would find and exploit the backdoor ... -_-
1654 2013-03-14 16:09:21 <AdamBLevine> monkeynipples: isn't that always the way it is?  "We'll utilize bitcoins decentralized system, but then build in the ability to operate it centrally in case of emergency"
1655 2013-03-14 16:09:25 <jgarzik> AdamBLevine: Yeah, tried cache clearing, reloading, and restarting the entire browser.  Still no-go, for front page or your direct link.  It just sits there, "Waiting for endthelie.com..."
1656 2013-03-14 16:09:33 <jgarzik> it is clearly loading _something_
1657 2013-03-14 16:09:41 <jgarzik> because View Source makes HTML appear
1658 2013-03-14 16:09:49 <jgarzik> maybe an ad server is broken
1659 2013-03-14 16:10:04 <monkeynipples> AdamBLevine: picardfacepalm.jpg
1660 2013-03-14 16:10:06 glassuserr has quit (Quit: glassuserr)
1661 2013-03-14 16:10:17 <AdamBLevine> Could be, it's loading locally still so maybe internet pipes related?
1662 2013-03-14 16:10:22 Swappermall has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1663 2013-03-14 16:10:32 <MC-Droid> Works for me
1664 2013-03-14 16:10:48 PlantMan has joined
1665 2013-03-14 16:10:49 <AdamBLevine> monkeynipples: it's sad I don't even need to see the image to see the image
1666 2013-03-14 16:11:08 Swappermall has joined
1667 2013-03-14 16:11:08 <monkeynipples> haha yeh, I feel that same way just typing it
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1669 2013-03-14 16:11:38 <MC-Droid> Did litecoin prove any anything wrt  shorter block times?
1670 2013-03-14 16:13:05 <jgarzik> AdamBLevine: Google cannot load that page either; it's not just me.
1671 2013-03-14 16:13:52 <MC-Droid>  Clogged tubes
1672 2013-03-14 16:14:17 andytoshi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1673 2013-03-14 16:14:17 BTCOxygen is now known as kano
1674 2013-03-14 16:14:41 kano is now known as BTCOxygen
1675 2013-03-14 16:14:50 <gecko_x2> THE INTERNET IS A SERIES OF (sometimes clogged) TUBEZ!!
1676 2013-03-14 16:15:04 <monkeynipples> indeed it is, indeed
1677 2013-03-14 16:15:12 <jgarzik> AdamBLevine: confirm #3: Coral Cache (nyud.net) has trouble loading the page
1678 2013-03-14 16:17:02 <jgarzik> OK, elinks on system #4 works.  :)  I'm guessing some page element is just very slow
1679 2013-03-14 16:17:55 <Scrat> jgarzik: typically external js libs
1680 2013-03-14 16:18:05 <cyphase> monkeynipples, yea, but if it's real and actually decentralized, we don't have to let them add the backdoor part :)
1681 2013-03-14 16:18:15 bock_ has joined
1682 2013-03-14 16:18:16 <jgarzik> yep
1683 2013-03-14 16:18:48 nsillik has quit (Quit: nsillik)
1684 2013-03-14 16:18:49 karl has joined
1685 2013-03-14 16:18:52 <karl>  kalinka
1686 2013-03-14 16:19:04 karl is now known as kalinka
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1688 2013-03-14 16:19:37 kalinka is now known as whyiseverynamere
1689 2013-03-14 16:19:45 <Scrat> AdamBLevine: that is one heavy page. 190 http requests uncached
1690 2013-03-14 16:19:58 safra has joined
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1693 2013-03-14 16:20:10 <whyiseverynamere> hey guys
1694 2013-03-14 16:20:29 <whyiseverynamere> i had someone send a payment to my bitmit address and it's unresolved after 3 hours
1695 2013-03-14 16:20:32 <whyiseverynamere> f814a1df150215663750b93e7ba9883da4f5d2f3c351177efb0a6a5c635894a8
1696 2013-03-14 16:21:00 <whyiseverynamere> i kinda dont know what to do. its 0/8 confirmations. any reason it wold take so long?
1697 2013-03-14 16:21:26 bock has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1698 2013-03-14 16:22:00 Ashaman has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1699 2013-03-14 16:22:56 <MC-Droid> Seems like a nice article
1700 2013-03-14 16:23:09 monst has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1701 2013-03-14 16:23:09 Ashaman has joined
1702 2013-03-14 16:23:10 <MC-Droid> More fair missed than the first draft I saw
1703 2013-03-14 16:23:10 PK has joined
1704 2013-03-14 16:23:17 <MC-Droid> Minded
1705 2013-03-14 16:23:19 monst has joined
1706 2013-03-14 16:23:28 <Scrat> whyiseverynamere: i dont see anything wrong with it, give it some time
1707 2013-03-14 16:23:56 zooko has joined
1708 2013-03-14 16:23:59 <whyiseverynamere> I'm reading about some fork in transactions and that merchants shouldnt accept coins
1709 2013-03-14 16:24:05 maximi89 has joined
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1711 2013-03-14 16:24:07 <whyiseverynamere> but i just saw that now
1712 2013-03-14 16:24:12 monst has joined
1713 2013-03-14 16:24:18 <MC-Droid> Slowpoke
1714 2013-03-14 16:24:21 <Scrat> that has been resolved
1715 2013-03-14 16:24:46 fronti has joined
1716 2013-03-14 16:25:20 <skinnkavaj> if i want to learn and contribute to bitcoin software, what languages do i need to learn?
1717 2013-03-14 16:25:44 <whyiseverynamere> i read that unconfirmed transactions disappear after a few hours..... i dont need to worry i wont get my coins do i
1718 2013-03-14 16:26:01 <Scrat> whyiseverynamere: your tx depends on a previous small input, so when it confirms so will yours
1719 2013-03-14 16:28:10 <jaakkos> skinnkavaj: various bitcoin software has written in many languages
1720 2013-03-14 16:28:23 <jaakkos> skinnkavaj: perhaps you should think what you want to do. the reference client is in c++, though.
1721 2013-03-14 16:28:40 <jaakkos> s/has/has been/
1722 2013-03-14 16:28:45 <skinnkavaj> jaakkos: i want to be able to help look for bugs and security issues in the bitcoin main client
1723 2013-03-14 16:29:06 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1724 2013-03-14 16:29:09 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
1725 2013-03-14 16:29:14 <skinnkavaj> is it a good way to with studying c++? i dont even know html
1726 2013-03-14 16:29:19 <jaakkos> c++ it is, then
1727 2013-03-14 16:29:26 <skinnkavaj> do i need to learn anything else first?
1728 2013-03-14 16:29:46 <SomeoneWeird> boost
1729 2013-03-14 16:30:02 <SomeoneWeird> if you don't even know html you're going to have a hard time learning c++
1730 2013-03-14 16:30:23 <monkeynipples> i learn c before html
1731 2013-03-14 16:30:31 <skinnkavaj> but i want to do this, just need a direction where to start?
1732 2013-03-14 16:30:49 <Arnavion> I've heard good things about codeacademy
1733 2013-03-14 16:30:56 <monkeynipples> was a nightmare trying to get anything to compile if i recall correctly ;) but back then you just did it
1734 2013-03-14 16:30:58 <jaakkos> skinnkavaj: accelerated c++ is a pretty good book
1735 2013-03-14 16:31:34 <jaakkos> (though i haven't personally read much of it)
1736 2013-03-14 16:32:35 gyver has joined
1737 2013-03-14 16:33:28 <jaakkos> skinnkavaj: but in addition to the base language you will need to learn about APIs the code uses, such as networking and databases
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1743 2013-03-14 16:37:05 <joe_k> are there test vectors for e.g. base58check encoding
1744 2013-03-14 16:37:15 <joe_k> sample messages, etc
1745 2013-03-14 16:38:17 <joe_k> i would like a not-generated-by-me actual bitcoin address and its key material to insert into my test case
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1753 2013-03-14 16:39:52 <Sword_Smith> As far as I have understood base58check is a base 58 representation of a hexadecimal private adress along with some hash check sums. Is this correct?
1754 2013-03-14 16:40:29 <Scrat> Sword_Smith: representation of a hash of a public address
1755 2013-03-14 16:40:48 <joe_k> yes
1756 2013-03-14 16:41:04 <joe_k> (imho it should have ECC bits intead of the hash but that's me)
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1758 2013-03-14 16:41:39 <joe_k> Sword_Smith: err, there's no "hexadecimal" in there really. Base256 (bytes) -> Base58
1759 2013-03-14 16:41:41 <Scrat> well, private too
1760 2013-03-14 16:41:49 <jgarzik> an address is a hash of a public key
1761 2013-03-14 16:42:00 <Scrat> 256 bits vs 160
1762 2013-03-14 16:42:32 <jgarzik> Scrat: so, not a hash of a public address
1763 2013-03-14 16:42:35 <MC-Droid> Wow litecoin has really lost its way
1764 2013-03-14 16:42:49 <Scrat> jgarzik: yes :/
1765 2013-03-14 16:42:54 <jgarzik> Sword_Smith: base58 representation of a hash, with checksum
1766 2013-03-14 16:43:03 <jgarzik> Sword_Smith: the hash is the hash of a public key
1767 2013-03-14 16:43:07 <MC-Droid> Not one person in they thread questioning the concept of a litecoin fpga
1768 2013-03-14 16:44:14 <Sword_Smith> But base58check is something that is used for private keys and (public) adresses, right?
1769 2013-03-14 16:44:17 saulimus has joined
1770 2013-03-14 16:44:50 <Scrat> meant to write public key
1771 2013-03-14 16:45:31 <Scrat> Sword_Smith: yeah it's used for both, only header and length differs
1772 2013-03-14 16:45:33 <AdamBLevine> jgarzik: endthelie.com isn't my page, my personal is mindtomatter.org
1773 2013-03-14 16:45:43 <Diablo-D3> is 0.8.1 out yet?
1774 2013-03-14 16:46:51 <Sword_Smith> Roger, thanks
1775 2013-03-14 16:48:01 <Sword_Smith> I don't know if this is the correct place to ask but do any of you know which private keys mtgox accepts when you deposit BTCs to your mtgox account? I entered entered a private address in hexadecimal base and that worked...
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1778 2013-03-14 16:51:45 <Scrat> well these are the 2 types you'll typically find (hex/base58). mini private key is basically a long brainwallet
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1780 2013-03-14 16:52:40 <MC-Droid> Why haven't any of the altcoins done anything interesting
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1787 2013-03-14 16:55:10 <moarrr> do you think there will be an easy-to-use interface for multisig transactions any time soon?
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1789 2013-03-14 16:55:54 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: someone thoought you might be near charlotte nc?
1790 2013-03-14 16:55:59 FredEE has joined
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1792 2013-03-14 16:57:01 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: somewhat.  I'm in Raleigh NC
1793 2013-03-14 16:57:02 <Luke-Jr> MC-Droid: freicoin?
1794 2013-03-14 16:57:26 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: wanna rush to airport? XD
1795 2013-03-14 16:57:40 zechiel has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1796 2013-03-14 16:58:01 <Luke-Jr> tho they're boarding 1st class already…
1797 2013-03-14 16:58:08 <MC-Droid> Is that the he demurrage one
1798 2013-03-14 16:58:17 <Luke-Jr> MC-Droid: yes
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1802 2013-03-14 16:59:38 <Luke-Jr> so much for layover
1803 2013-03-14 16:59:59 <Luke-Jr> didn't evwn get time to eat
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1806 2013-03-14 17:01:32 <MC-Droid> Good luck with the trip Luke-Jr
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1837 2013-03-14 17:27:17 <helo> MC-Droid: i'd guess that all of the devs with interesting ideas are busy working on bitcoin, so altcoins get no love
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1839 2013-03-14 17:30:56 <Sword_Smith> helo: lol. It would hurt our financial situation, true
1840 2013-03-14 17:31:05 <Sword_Smith> Competition ftw. though
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1843 2013-03-14 17:32:00 <jgarzik> Network effect.  Very little incentive to work on a coin nobody uses.
1844 2013-03-14 17:33:17 <Sword_Smith> Matcalf's law: the value of a network rises quadratically with the number of users, true. Terracoin has being doing ok recently.
1845 2013-03-14 17:33:27 <Sword_Smith> though
1846 2013-03-14 17:33:41 Sword_Smith has quit (Quit: irc2go)
1847 2013-03-14 17:34:49 <jgarzik> BTCGuild: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49417.msg1624670#msg1624670
1848 2013-03-14 17:34:52 <jgarzik> "Re-updating to a 0.8 branch with limits set to make it 0.7 compatible.  Stales are much more noticeable on 0.7 compared to 0.8 due to how much slower the bitcoind backend is at generating work after a new block is announced/verified.  Unfortunately, I'm not comfortable updating until I know 0.8 has had the BDB limits emulated to prevent another fork in case somebody tries to force a bad block through again."
1849 2013-03-14 17:36:04 <witwit> to me the network effect ensures that I won't pay any attention to alt coins unless huge unforeseen weaknesses in bitcoin come to light.
1850 2013-03-14 17:36:05 <TD> gavinandresen: ping
1851 2013-03-14 17:36:15 <TD> gavinandresen: what's the url of your attempt to calculate the marginal cost of a tx?
1852 2013-03-14 17:36:22 * TD needs it fairly fast-ish ...
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1855 2013-03-14 17:37:57 <gavinandresen> TD: https://gist.github.com/gavinandresen/5044482
1856 2013-03-14 17:38:05 <TD> thanks!
1857 2013-03-14 17:39:33 <helo> witwit: an altcoin having the same problem is pretty much guaranteed... although problems like the last one could be fixed before they surface
1858 2013-03-14 17:40:30 <jgarzik> I do think about my own ideas for alt-coins, though.  For my idea "tempcoin", which would make any coin older than 4 years spendable-by-anyone, I thought about doing a backdated pre-mine, mining blocks dated far in the past, to test the expiration system.  Then, announce the "tempcoin" release day publicly, like Satoshi did, so that everyone gets a fair shot at the coins (i.e. no scamcoin pre-mine).
1859 2013-03-14 17:41:09 <jgarzik> It's always fun to think about My Own Coin, but at the end of the day, it's not worth the user confusion and support headaches and time sink of doing your own.
1860 2013-03-14 17:41:59 free__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1861 2013-03-14 17:42:07 <sturles> sturle@lara:~$ bitcoind getbalance ""
1862 2013-03-14 17:42:08 <sturles> -0.00050000
1863 2013-03-14 17:42:10 <sturles> ?
1864 2013-03-14 17:42:47 <jgarzik> sturles: balances can be negative thanks to bitcoind's internal accounts system.  bitcoind accounts are not aware of when someone does a 'sendtoaddress' call.
1865 2013-03-14 17:42:58 <jgarzik> sturles: you must religiously use 'sendfrom'
1866 2013-03-14 17:43:33 <sturles> Ah.  Right.  Will try to remember that.
1867 2013-03-14 17:44:18 <moarrr> jgarzik: what good would making 4 year old coins unspendable do?
1868 2013-03-14 17:44:45 <moarrr> jgarzik: you would just be forcing people to shuffle their coins around pointlessly every 4 years
1869 2013-03-14 17:44:47 <jgarzik> moarrr: not unspendable; spendable by anyone.  That handles the problem of coin dust, and forgotten coins.
1870 2013-03-14 17:45:02 <jgarzik> moarrr: it makes sense for a transactional currency
1871 2013-03-14 17:45:07 <jgarzik> hence the name "tempcoin"
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1873 2013-03-14 17:45:33 PiZZaMaN2K is now known as away!~PiZZaMaN2@unaffiliated/pizzaman2k|PiZZaMaN2K
1874 2013-03-14 17:46:23 <moarrr> jgarzik: i still dont see what benefit that change would have... wouldnt it be better to use bitcoin to avoid losing your coins over some rapid cliff?
1875 2013-03-14 17:46:55 <moarrr> freicoin has demurrage and that doesnt seem to be very popular either
1876 2013-03-14 17:47:24 drapetomano has joined
1877 2013-03-14 17:48:08 <jgarzik> moarrr: Again, it is not intended to be a long term store of value, but more a transactional currency.  So if "4 years" is a rapid cliff for you, then don't store coins for that long ;p
1878 2013-03-14 17:48:54 <sipa> jgarzik: i've thought about that as well; i'd divide the total currency in 3 groups: in circulation, about to be mined, and not yet mined
1879 2013-03-14 17:49:09 <sipa> jgarzik: these are values tracked for each block
1880 2013-03-14 17:49:12 <moarrr> jgarzik: so your idea is that by owning coins, i should be forced to spend them even if i dont have anything i want to buy
1881 2013-03-14 17:49:17 <moarrr> :P
1882 2013-03-14 17:49:37 <moarrr> sounds worst than fiat
1883 2013-03-14 17:49:44 <moarrr> at least you only lose purchasing power due to inflation
1884 2013-03-14 17:50:23 <sipa> jgarzik: every block brings $subsidypct * $notyetmined + $fees into $tobemined, and the miner is allowed to take $minepct * $tobemined in the block
1885 2013-03-14 17:50:43 <sipa> jgarzik: and 'burned' coins simply go back to $notyetmined
1886 2013-03-14 17:52:38 _pr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1887 2013-03-14 17:52:46 <sipa> jgarzik: perhaps not really clear...
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1891 2013-03-14 17:53:11 <B0g4r7_> Is there a way to specify an alternate storage location for the block db?
1892 2013-03-14 17:53:21 <B0g4r7_> My boot drive is getting full.
1893 2013-03-14 17:53:23 <kjj> -datdir
1894 2013-03-14 17:53:25 <sipa> -datadir
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1897 2013-03-14 17:53:41 <kjj> bah.  typo, sipa got it right
1898 2013-03-14 17:53:49 <PK> jgarzik: That would turn bitcoin into Silvio Gesell money. If you don't spend it, it loses its value. This encourages people to invest rather than hoard coins. If that's good or bad is a different topic though.
1899 2013-03-14 17:53:55 <B0g4r7_> Does that work in bitcoin.conf too, or is the reading of bitcoin.conf dependent on the datadir location?
1900 2013-03-14 17:54:20 <kjj> works in bitcoin.conf, but you can specify -conf on the command line if you want to move that too
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1902 2013-03-14 17:54:32 <B0g4r7_> Ah, cool.
1903 2013-03-14 17:54:33 <B0g4r7_> thx.
1904 2013-03-14 17:54:44 <denisx> making a transaction to myself is not spending
1905 2013-03-14 17:55:03 <B0g4r7_> It's nice having it on an ssd, but it's getting to be a bit much.
1906 2013-03-14 17:55:13 _pr has joined
1907 2013-03-14 17:55:36 <B0g4r7_> and I play with altcoins, so I have like 4 chains stored now.
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1918 2013-03-14 17:59:03 <jgarzik> 2013-03-14 17:37:27 CreateNewBlock(): total size 29200
1919 2013-03-14 17:59:03 <jgarzik> 2013-03-14 17:37:29 CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 28f5bb9b1c (poolsz 936)
1920 2013-03-14 17:59:12 <jgarzik> a bit odd.  small block, large pool.
1921 2013-03-14 17:59:20 <jgarzik> stock 0.8 rules
1922 2013-03-14 17:59:26 <sipa> maybe a long chain of unconfirmed transactions?
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1925 2013-03-14 18:01:04 <oracleCoin> fuck my network is slow
1926 2013-03-14 18:01:10 <oracleCoin> anyone got DBD compiled for windows?
1927 2013-03-14 18:01:23 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
1928 2013-03-14 18:01:34 <oracleCoin> who is maintainer of the windows binary? how is it compiled? crossplatform under cygwin?
1929 2013-03-14 18:02:08 <oracleCoin> i am trying mingw32
1930 2013-03-14 18:02:23 _pr has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1931 2013-03-14 18:03:18 <oracleCoin> I see in subdirectory db-4.8-30./build_windows an sln file, I think that is it
1932 2013-03-14 18:04:30 <TD> sipa: how fast was sipaspeed again?
1933 2013-03-14 18:04:34 <TD> 70k verifies/sec?
1934 2013-03-14 18:04:43 <sipa> TD: 20k :)
1935 2013-03-14 18:04:59 <TD> ok
1936 2013-03-14 18:05:03 <TD> that's on one core
1937 2013-03-14 18:05:14 <sipa> no, all, but with relatively bad scheduling
1938 2013-03-14 18:05:16 <TD> signing is still a lot more expensive though, right?
1939 2013-03-14 18:05:16 <TD> oh
1940 2013-03-14 18:05:19 <TD> 4 cores?
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1942 2013-03-14 18:05:34 <jgarzik> TD: Miners definitely have a big incentive to mine largely transactions already likely to be in the network's signature caches
1943 2013-03-14 18:05:36 <sipa> it's around 0.15ms per verification
1944 2013-03-14 18:05:41 <sipa> single-threadedly
1945 2013-03-14 18:05:42 <TD> ok
1946 2013-03-14 18:05:59 <TD> sipa: did we ever measure signing?
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1948 2013-03-14 18:06:13 <sipa> and there should be almost no contention between threads, if properly scheduled, as there is almost no dynamic allocation going on
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1950 2013-03-14 18:06:27 <sipa> TD: i don't think so, but signing is significantly easier than verifying
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1952 2013-03-14 18:06:44 <sipa> except you probably want constant-time algorithms to avoid side-channel attacks
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1954 2013-03-14 18:07:08 <TD> ok
1955 2013-03-14 18:07:09 <TD> good
1956 2013-03-14 18:07:25 <petertodd> jgarzik: No they don't. Miners are better off if less than 100% of the network hashing power receives their block; the ones that don't are wasting their efforts and reducing your competition.
1957 2013-03-14 18:08:34 <petertodd> jgarzik: More subtley, they want greater than 50% of the integral of the hashing power per second. Fortunately for them the nature of network bandwidth sorts the hashing power so that the slowest bandwidth miners tend to be in the category of not having seen your block.
1958 2013-03-14 18:08:46 <sipa> TD: that is with code developed and optimized for one single machine, using a modern compiler and 64-bit only features, and using GMP for a few operations
1959 2013-03-14 18:09:03 <TD> ok
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1966 2013-03-14 18:14:53 <oracleCoin> can i use something else then imgur for screendumps
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1968 2013-03-14 18:15:31 <Boydy> yeh there are sites out there just for screen shots
1969 2013-03-14 18:15:37 <Boydy> cant remember which ones though
1970 2013-03-14 18:15:51 <B0g4r7_> puu.sh and ow.ly seem to be popular
1971 2013-03-14 18:16:06 <B0g4r7_> er, disregard the latter.
1972 2013-03-14 18:16:08 <oracleCoin> Can someone take a look at this
1973 2013-03-14 18:16:09 <oracleCoin> http://pastebin.com/WJ8M5dNX
1974 2013-03-14 18:16:12 <oracleCoin> I compiled BDB
1975 2013-03-14 18:16:21 <oracleCoin> but what do I do with the dll's?
1976 2013-03-14 18:16:35 <oracleCoin> (I am trying to build qt client for windows)
1977 2013-03-14 18:17:46 gasteve has quit (Quit: leaving)
1978 2013-03-14 18:18:31 <oracleCoin> the online git manual build instruction is not clear https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/build-msw.txt
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1986 2013-03-14 18:26:45 <yebyen> I am playing testnet on 0.7.4 with a very fast target and cpu mining
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1988 2013-03-14 18:27:26 <yebyen> and I have a pair of computers, one is arm tegra2 the other is an intel core i5 laptop
1989 2013-03-14 18:28:15 <yebyen> I just want to know if anyone would be surprised that the slow arm frequently loses track of what it's doing when the fast core is generating, and needs to be restarted or the blockchain cleared altogether
1990 2013-03-14 18:29:02 <yebyen> it's not strictly 0.7.4, it's modified testnet-in-a-box
1991 2013-03-14 18:29:36 Bohren has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1992 2013-03-14 18:29:44 <yebyen> in fact it's 0.7.2
1993 2013-03-14 18:29:59 <yebyen> what came packaged with Debian sid, only slightly modified
1994 2013-03-14 18:30:12 <yebyen> https://github.com/yebyen/testnet-debian
1995 2013-03-14 18:30:41 <yebyen> apologies that there are 20 commits, it took some fiddling to figure out how to reset the target
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2018 2013-03-14 18:50:27 <tockitj> it would be nice to have atomic transactions that would allow person A to send sum X to person B AND person B to send sum Y to person A
2019 2013-03-14 18:51:00 <tockitj> this would help anonymity - and it might be simple (maybe) to add ?
2020 2013-03-14 18:51:25 ProfMac has joined
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2024 2013-03-14 18:54:28 <sipa> tockitj: how is that different in any way from sending X-Y in one direction only?
2025 2013-03-14 18:54:36 <sipa> tockitj: or do you mean to separate addresses?
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2027 2013-03-14 18:55:04 <tockitj> point is not in net effect, but in mangling transactions
2028 2013-03-14 18:55:15 <tockitj> it would enable ppl to securely trade BTC for BTC
2029 2013-03-14 18:55:39 <tockitj> do distributed laundry by design
2030 2013-03-14 18:56:02 <tockitj> or in other words make BTC more cash-like (anonymous)
2031 2013-03-14 18:56:53 Unflux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2033 2013-03-14 18:57:31 <tockitj> it would require both parties to sign a transaction with their private keys (agreeing mutually on transaction)
2034 2013-03-14 18:57:49 <tockitj> transactions would be with expirable timestamp
2035 2013-03-14 18:57:58 Namworld has joined
2036 2013-03-14 18:58:20 <tockitj> in case only one party signs and other decides to hold the transaction to its adventage
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2038 2013-03-14 18:59:24 <tockitj> this way anyone could exchange money with anyone securely - making graph tracking difficult
2039 2013-03-14 19:00:00 <tockitj> this functionality might be even embedded into wallets as option - to periodically search for clients that want to trade and make sure wallet content is anonymous
2040 2013-03-14 19:00:45 <tockitj> how does this sound ?
2041 2013-03-14 19:01:52 <thegimp1> i may be missing something but isn't that just a convoluted way of making a mixing service with limited wallets?
2042 2013-03-14 19:01:58 <sipa> it's theoretically perfectly possible
2043 2013-03-14 19:02:31 <oracleCoin> A->B->C is already traceble in the blockchain
2044 2013-03-14 19:02:32 <oracleCoin> so
2045 2013-03-14 19:02:40 <oracleCoin> why do it
2046 2013-03-14 19:02:52 <Duly678> sounds like it would be easier to do as a website wallet feature?
2047 2013-03-14 19:03:02 ray has joined
2048 2013-03-14 19:03:11 <tockitj> thegimp1, yes - it is distributed and secure mixing service
2049 2013-03-14 19:03:24 mrkent has joined
2050 2013-03-14 19:03:29 <tockitj> Duly678, easier - but less secure
2051 2013-03-14 19:03:29 <mrkent> voice
2052 2013-03-14 19:03:30 _pr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2053 2013-03-14 19:03:59 <Duly678> what kind of increase in tx are we looking at?
2054 2013-03-14 19:04:21 oracleCoin has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2055 2013-03-14 19:04:47 <Duly678> traffic increase*
2056 2013-03-14 19:05:03 <tockitj> oracleCoin, currently it is possible to statistically analyze blockchain and trace ppls spending
2057 2013-03-14 19:05:45 <tockitj> enabling everyone to trade BTC with everyone securely will make tracing difficult
2058 2013-03-14 19:06:34 _pr has joined
2059 2013-03-14 19:06:49 <tockitj> if you pass your value through every-bodies wallet its gonna be damn hard to trace it back
2060 2013-03-14 19:07:09 <moarrr> since the price rallied, the fee is almost 2 cent per transaction
2061 2013-03-14 19:07:14 <moarrr> is there any plans to lower the defaultl fee?
2062 2013-03-14 19:07:18 <Duly678> it also sounds as if the longer the client has been laundering the less probable a trace is, so someone trying to trace would have a window of opportunity?
2063 2013-03-14 19:08:13 <tockitj> Duly678, nah.. it would be very hard - since you can get as many addresses as you want and do laundering from start
2064 2013-03-14 19:08:24 <mrkent> what's the new alternative to clarkmoody? I can never remember the url
2065 2013-03-14 19:09:21 <tockitj> anyway it will discourage tracing money - and make it circumstantial
2066 2013-03-14 19:09:24 pete78 has joined
2067 2013-03-14 19:09:39 <tockitj> its a simple addition i think
2068 2013-03-14 19:09:50 <thegimp1> tockitj, it would be better to have a few million addresses and route transactions randomly through your own addresses
2069 2013-03-14 19:09:52 <tockitj> and yet can have profound positive effects
2070 2013-03-14 19:10:23 <tockitj> thegimp1, nah - they would be tightly connected acting as one big node in analysis
2071 2013-03-14 19:10:50 <Duly678> are there implications to building this sort of thing that could make bitcoin itself a target for governments?
2072 2013-03-14 19:10:52 nouitfvf has joined
2073 2013-03-14 19:11:02 <tockitj> in the end real spending is what would get you - since you would have to combine funds from these addresses to pay something for real
2074 2013-03-14 19:11:26 <tockitj> Duly678, bitcoin should be cash-like
2075 2013-03-14 19:11:44 safra has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2076 2013-03-14 19:12:26 <Duly678> tockitj: I can agree with you on the privacy issue
2077 2013-03-14 19:12:43 <thegimp1> tockitj: problem is you need to set up the routing path before you send the first transaction
2078 2013-03-14 19:12:49 <yebyen> does anyone test mining on arm?
2079 2013-03-14 19:12:58 <yebyen> as cpu mining
2080 2013-03-14 19:13:21 <tockitj> leaving gaping hole in bitcoin (in sense that it is traceable) is actually empowering gvmnts in controlling population
2081 2013-03-14 19:13:43 _pr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2082 2013-03-14 19:13:50 <Duly678> tockitj: implementing something like this you would want to make sure there is no way bitcoin could be taken down, which seems like the next logical option for a gov if they couldn't trace a transaction
2083 2013-03-14 19:13:53 hsmithsN7 has joined
2084 2013-03-14 19:13:59 <tockitj> thegimp1, why not just connect to everyone.. everyone connecting to everyone will show up like one big web
2085 2013-03-14 19:14:13 <SchmalzTech> Hello everyone, I was trying to move some BTC between wallets, and I have a really stuck transaction; 22+ hours now.  It seems like the network is rejecting it, possibly because some of the outputs are very small. It was from a blockchain.info wallet to a 0.8 wallet on my computer, and any nodes that are relaying it disappear from the map eventually, except for my own node which I just
2086 2013-03-14 19:14:13 <SchmalzTech> opened the firewall for a couple hours ago. when I pushed the tx from my blockchain wallet, my desktop wallet (which is running the node) saw it immediately, but it doesn't seem to be propogating.  I don't care if the transaction completes or reverses- I just want my coins in one wallet or the other at this point. Anything I can do?
2087 2013-03-14 19:14:36 <tockitj> Duly678, tracing moneyflow is bad idea
2088 2013-03-14 19:14:41 <tockitj> it should not be allowed
2089 2013-03-14 19:14:56 <tockitj> i'd call it a bug
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2091 2013-03-14 19:15:56 <tockitj> gvmnts have different instruments to trace money-flow - they should not use something fundamentally embedded into bitcoin as blockchain
2092 2013-03-14 19:16:10 <Scrat> SchmalzTech: let me ask the obvious question: where you playing SD on that wallet?
2093 2013-03-14 19:16:15 donpdonp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2096 2013-03-14 19:16:44 <Scrat> s/where/were/
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2098 2013-03-14 19:16:57 <SchmalzTech> Scrat: yes.
2099 2013-03-14 19:17:05 <Duly678> tockitj: I believe both of us agree.  My question is only one of timing.  Will implementing such a thing be viewed as a hostile move?
2100 2013-03-14 19:17:17 <Scrat> SchmalzTech: give it more time
2101 2013-03-14 19:17:19 <Duly678> tockitj: and if so are we ready?
2102 2013-03-14 19:17:25 <tockitj> i think it is improvement
2103 2013-03-14 19:18:01 <SchmalzTech> Scrat: Do you think I should leave my node running then? it's definitely trying to relay the tx.
2104 2013-03-14 19:18:10 thegimp1 is now known as hmmmstrange
2105 2013-03-14 19:18:33 <tockitj> money should be anonymous - it should *only* store value
2106 2013-03-14 19:18:37 <tockitj> no stamps included
2107 2013-03-14 19:18:43 dlb76 has joined
2108 2013-03-14 19:18:44 <tockitj> no tracing - just value
2109 2013-03-14 19:18:52 <tockitj> pure
2110 2013-03-14 19:18:54 <SchmalzTech> Also, when I play SD, I have my fees set to a decent amount. every previous tx should have a fee.
2111 2013-03-14 19:18:56 <Scrat> did you send from b.i to your bitcoin-qt? then your node has nothing to do with it
2112 2013-03-14 19:18:58 <tockitj> i think it makes things simpler
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2115 2013-03-14 19:19:55 <tockitj> that would be ideal money i think
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2117 2013-03-14 19:20:35 <fiesh> tockitj: what is the technical solution you are suggesting?
2118 2013-03-14 19:20:39 <SchmalzTech> Scrat: Yes, I sent it from my b.i wallet, but if I look up the TX, b.i shows my qt wallet's node as a relaying node.
2119 2013-03-14 19:21:06 <tockitj> fiesh, new transaction that would execute atomically: (A sends sum X to B) AND (B sends sum Y to A)
2120 2013-03-14 19:21:39 <tockitj> both parties would sign transaction (with timestamp) with their private keys
2121 2013-03-14 19:21:55 <fiesh> tockitj: and how does this make money flow untraceable?
2122 2013-03-14 19:21:59 <Scrat> SchmalzTech: paste your txid if you dont mind
2123 2013-03-14 19:22:20 <tockitj> fiesh, it makes distributed and secure 'money laundry' possible
2124 2013-03-14 19:22:32 <SchmalzTech> scrat: http://blockchain.info/tx/238253c8271ea81daf252146ca559110798f80b30f35239e0432d40cd332be1c
2125 2013-03-14 19:22:35 <tockitj> we could pass BTCs around securely
2126 2013-03-14 19:23:31 <tockitj> so tracing back series of transactions to originator would not be possible
2127 2013-03-14 19:23:32 <fiesh> tockitj: I fail to see the point, why does A not just send B the sum X-Y, assuming X > Y, otherwise the other way around
2128 2013-03-14 19:23:51 <tockitj> point is not in net effect - but in transactions
2129 2013-03-14 19:23:54 CaptainBlaze has quit (Quit: CaptainBlaze)
2130 2013-03-14 19:23:54 <tockitj> say X == Y
2131 2013-03-14 19:24:03 <tockitj> we just exchange same sum around
2132 2013-03-14 19:24:07 <fiesh> tockitj: and A and B are addresses?
2133 2013-03-14 19:24:20 <tockitj> yeah - belonging to different ppl
2134 2013-03-14 19:24:29 <fiesh> then nothing happens
2135 2013-03-14 19:24:49 <tockitj> i could be sure that i can send money to you, and at the same time you will send money to me
2136 2013-03-14 19:24:52 <fiesh> they could just not do any transaction, exactly the same outcome
2137 2013-03-14 19:24:55 t7_ has joined
2138 2013-03-14 19:25:12 <tockitj> same net effect
2139 2013-03-14 19:25:32 <tockitj> but person who was trying to trace transactions would have much harder time tracking where did money go
2140 2013-03-14 19:26:00 fishfish has quit (Quit: Zzzzz..zzzzz)
2141 2013-03-14 19:26:20 <tockitj> hmmz.. or not
2142 2013-03-14 19:26:20 <fiesh> no, they would see the money was not exchanged since they see the double transaction--- it would be different if A pays to B and C pays to D, where party 1 owns A and D, and party 2 owns B and C
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2146 2013-03-14 19:27:01 <fiesh> but even then, there's no advantage, you can just create the addresses yourself and shuffle the money around...
2147 2013-03-14 19:27:30 <Scrat> SchmalzTech: don't know what's going on, maybe someone else can help you
2148 2013-03-14 19:28:03 undecim_ has joined
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2151 2013-03-14 19:28:36 the is now known as Guest26136
2152 2013-03-14 19:28:44 <SchmalzTech> Scrat: Looking back into the history of that wallet, it looks like a couple other transactions in that wallet haven't confirmed and because of that, my other coins are in limbo. One sent to SD (with proper fee,) the other received (probably its result.) Time to stop playing SD I guess!
2153 2013-03-14 19:29:07 donpdonp has joined
2154 2013-03-14 19:29:24 <Guest26136> hey, i think I have figured out a secure way to do contracts with bitcoin. are there any crypto experts here at the moment?
2155 2013-03-14 19:29:38 <Scrat> I dont know why b.i would show your ip as the only node where the tx has propagated
2156 2013-03-14 19:30:29 <SchmalzTech> Scrat: Others have showed up, but then they drop off the list. it's almost like they've rejected it.
2157 2013-03-14 19:30:55 <Guest26136> or....should i be talking about this on a different channel?
2158 2013-03-14 19:31:48 CaptainBlaze has quit (Client Quit)
2159 2013-03-14 19:32:23 <randy-waterhouse> Guest26136: no crypto experts here right now ? ... what are you thinking?
2160 2013-03-14 19:32:24 <tockitj> fiesh, hmmz.. how about just transactions with more than one party - say atomic transaction from tuple (a1, a2, a3, ...) to tuple (b1, b2, b3, ...) that could be signed by N users
2161 2013-03-14 19:32:29 undecim has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2163 2013-03-14 19:34:05 <fiesh> tockitj: doesn't make a difference, only the net diff matters
2164 2013-03-14 19:35:36 <tockitj> you are right
2165 2013-03-14 19:35:49 <tockitj> hmmz.. btc can be used securely as it is
2166 2013-03-14 19:36:08 <tockitj> it can be shuffled well now that i think of it
2167 2013-03-14 19:36:44 ovidiusoft has joined
2168 2013-03-14 19:37:08 <randy-waterhouse> tockitj: there are similar proposals out there ... http://wbl.github.com/bitcoinanon.pdf
2169 2013-03-14 19:37:32 <tockitj> if you try to keep funds fairly separated - and not allow it to mix-in into one big chunk
2170 2013-03-14 19:38:01 <tockitj> randy-waterhouse, thanks
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2176 2013-03-14 19:43:04 fatAgnes has joined
2177 2013-03-14 19:43:10 <fatAgnes> hi
2178 2013-03-14 19:43:29 <fatAgnes> I am looking for a good book on native windows programming in C++
2179 2013-03-14 19:43:32 <fatAgnes> or C
2180 2013-03-14 19:44:23 grau_ has joined
2181 2013-03-14 19:44:44 <SchmalzTech> Scrat: I figured it out. This TX is offending and holding everything up. (not enough fee sent- the tx was over 2kb and the wallet only paid .001 when I sent) http://blockchain.info/tx-index/60318461/52a5666907988295bacb416cda8c62ac25883101c7af719f6b6e1cb3b0d54830
2182 2013-03-14 19:45:17 <SchmalzTech> Thanks for looking at it!
2183 2013-03-14 19:46:00 ThomasV_ has joined
2184 2013-03-14 19:46:24 safra has joined
2185 2013-03-14 19:47:24 <tockitj> anyway we should try to prevent anyone from tracing money via block chain - it is a bug if it is possible imho
2186 2013-03-14 19:47:28 grau has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2187 2013-03-14 19:47:36 <tockitj> maybe someone smarter than me can figure how to do this
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2197 2013-03-14 20:01:40 <random_cat> my experience with acquiring blockchain via v0.8.0-dirty-beta (2013-02-18 18:38:34 -0500): 360 blocks/hour
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2206 2013-03-14 20:06:02 <hmmmstrange> cat: you using the pigeon net IPoAC?
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2220 2013-03-14 20:21:19 <blitcen> is there any chance the proposed sweepprivkey command will be added anytime in the near future?
2221 2013-03-14 20:21:24 <blitcen> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Sweepprivkey_proposal
2222 2013-03-14 20:22:42 <blitcen> if not, is there a script that uses the existing rpc methods to emulate this?
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2225 2013-03-14 20:24:41 <jgarzik> anyone
2226 2013-03-14 20:24:55 <jgarzik> what was the hash of the fork-causing 900k block?
2227 2013-03-14 20:25:56 <jgarzik> 000000000000015c50b165fcdd33556f8b44800c5298943ac70b112df480c023 (height=225430) ?
2228 2013-03-14 20:28:14 <sivu> i wonder why bitconij is soo much faster getting the full blockchain than original client
2229 2013-03-14 20:28:56 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
2230 2013-03-14 20:29:31 <gmaxwell> sivu: because it doesn't get the chain it only gets headers and after some height blocks filtered just for the addresses it cares about.
2231 2013-03-14 20:29:57 <gmaxwell> sivu: bitcoinj is a SPV client, a kind of reduced security that trusts the network to give it valid blocks.
2232 2013-03-14 20:30:16 pecket has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2233 2013-03-14 20:30:35 <sivu> gmaxwell: it has multiple different blockstorage options
2234 2013-03-14 20:31:32 <gmaxwell> sivu: That isn't incompatible with what I said.
2235 2013-03-14 20:31:33 jtimon has joined
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2237 2013-03-14 20:31:55 <sivu> true enough
2238 2013-03-14 20:32:03 tre-spective has joined
2239 2013-03-14 20:32:04 <grau_> sipa: I guess bitsofproof is also faster in downloading
2240 2013-03-14 20:32:17 <grau_> because it uses several peers
2241 2013-03-14 20:32:34 <grau_> and queues blocks if they come out of order and reuses them
2242 2013-03-14 20:32:44 <grau_> as they are needed
2243 2013-03-14 20:33:02 fishfish is now known as fishfish|AFK
2244 2013-03-14 20:33:03 <gmaxwell> grau_: didn't you post benchmarks showing that it was something like 10x slower?
2245 2013-03-14 20:33:15 <grau_> in validating
2246 2013-03-14 20:33:29 <grau_> not downloading until checkpoint
2247 2013-03-14 20:33:31 zechiel has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2248 2013-03-14 20:34:18 <jgarzik> let us see how long it takes bzip2 to compress 8GB worth of block chain data
2249 2013-03-14 20:34:25 pecket has joined
2250 2013-03-14 20:34:49 <yebyen> error: {"code":-1,"message":"CDB() : can't open database file wallet.dat, error 12"}
2251 2013-03-14 20:34:59 <yebyen> does this indicate my wallet is corrupt
2252 2013-03-14 20:35:25 <yebyen> or is there a chance it's just failed to index the blocks for some reason
2253 2013-03-14 20:36:20 <gmaxwell> grau_: so you can sync up to the checkpoint in 5 minutes or so?
2254 2013-03-14 20:36:44 <grau_> no, that not what I claimed since I do full block download
2255 2013-03-14 20:37:06 <grau_> But it is likely faster than satoshi until checkpoint
2256 2013-03-14 20:37:21 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
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2258 2013-03-14 20:38:53 <grau_> at least less affected by slow peers. It does not have a master peer, but tries to get the blocks from each that have not got from other.
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2262 2013-03-14 20:42:12 <random_cat> hmmmstrange: if that is what amazon is using these days, then i am
2263 2013-03-14 20:42:57 <gmaxwell> grau_: How are you pulling from multiple peers without fetching the same block multiple time, it's not possible to just fetch by index.  Are you pulling the headers first from one peer?
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2277 2013-03-14 20:54:53 ray is now known as vellest
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2280 2013-03-14 20:58:10 <Diablo-D3> meh I asked this earlier
2281 2013-03-14 20:58:11 rbecker is now known as RBecker
2282 2013-03-14 20:58:12 <Diablo-D3> but didnt get a response
2283 2013-03-14 20:58:14 <Diablo-D3> or I missed it
2284 2013-03-14 20:58:20 BlackPrapor has quit (2!~kvirc@h31-8-83-124.dyn.bashtel.ru|Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2285 2013-03-14 20:58:23 <Diablo-D3> when is 0.8.1 coming out?
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2292 2013-03-14 20:59:36 <grau_> gmaxwell: The download is not a separate logic for me, but ask every client at connect if it has something to add to the inventory i have
2293 2013-03-14 20:59:57 <grau_> then I fetch from the peer whatever I did not fetched elsewhere
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2296 2013-03-14 21:00:25 guest123_ is now known as vellest
2297 2013-03-14 21:00:29 <grau_> bitsofproof is beasically constantly downloading
2298 2013-03-14 21:01:04 marijnfs has joined
2299 2013-03-14 21:01:30 <grau_> I have a bit more in the connect logic. Like also ask for all addresses and mempool at connect
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2309 2013-03-14 21:16:48 <Eleuthria> Hmm, pretty quiet in here today.
2310 2013-03-14 21:18:33 eipeace has joined
2311 2013-03-14 21:20:05 <yebyen> EXCEPTION: St13runtime_error -- CWallet::GenerateNewKey() : AddKey failed -- bitcoin in ThreadBitcoinMiner() -- -- terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::runtime_error' -- what():  CWallet::GenerateNewKey() : AddKey failed
2312 2013-03-14 21:20:13 <yebyen> could this be out of memory error?
2313 2013-03-14 21:20:24 <yebyen> bad wallet or bad blocks
2314 2013-03-14 21:23:18 <rdponticelli> yebyen: Is your wallet encrypted?
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2336 2013-03-14 21:47:09 <jgarzik> Block #225430 chain fork dataset available - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=153170.0
2337 2013-03-14 21:47:53 drapetomano has joined
2338 2013-03-14 21:48:00 <Eleuthria> jgarzik:  Are we going to see a 0.8.1 which brings LevelDB but emulates the BDB limitations?
2339 2013-03-14 21:48:28 <jgarzik> Eleuthria: That is likely, yes
2340 2013-03-14 21:48:35 <Eleuthria> The performance of 0.7 is terrible in comparison, but I can't upgrade to 0.8 otherwise a malicious user could create a block and start a new fork
2341 2013-03-14 21:48:37 <jgarzik> Eleuthria: leveldb will not be dropped
2342 2013-03-14 21:48:42 rdponticelli has joined
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2345 2013-03-14 21:50:02 <randy-waterhouse> could bitcoin theoretically ever be DB agnostic?
2346 2013-03-14 21:50:36 <kanoi> write it's own db ......
2347 2013-03-14 21:50:52 <Eleuthria> randy-waterhouse:  Nothing really forced a certain DB system, other than the current problem where a bad configuration in BDB forces certain limits on other clients
2348 2013-03-14 21:51:13 <randy-waterhouse> but limits need to be enforced "somehow"
2349 2013-03-14 21:51:16 <jgarzik> randy-waterhouse: Absent this heretofor unknown BDB limit's impact, it is DB agnostic
2350 2013-03-14 21:51:17 <Eleuthria> IE:  You could use whatever DB you want, but currently you have to enforce the limitations BDB has on the 0.7 branch
2351 2013-03-14 21:51:21 <jgarzik> randy-waterhouse: just need a key/value database
2352 2013-03-14 21:51:56 <jgarzik> randy-waterhouse: "transactions accessed" is a DB-independent metric
2353 2013-03-14 21:52:09 <randy-waterhouse> infinite key/value DB stores are in short supply
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2359 2013-03-14 21:59:47 <randy-waterhouse> jgarzik: how do you define "transactions accessed" there?
2360 2013-03-14 22:00:20 <jgarzik> randy-waterhouse: any transaction referenced, but not in current block being processed
2361 2013-03-14 22:01:53 agricocb has joined
2362 2013-03-14 22:02:04 <randy-waterhouse> so limit block size based on transactions accessed?
2363 2013-03-14 22:02:41 mrkent has joined
2364 2013-03-14 22:02:53 <jgarzik> randy-waterhouse: limit blocks based on transactions accessed.  size is not relevant to calculations.
2365 2013-03-14 22:03:05 <jgarzik> randy-waterhouse: <= 0.7 was already tested with 1MB blocks, remember
2366 2013-03-14 22:03:26 <randy-waterhouse> right i get you ... i shouldn't have said size there (I didn't even mean it ..."size"
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2370 2013-03-14 22:04:20 <randy-waterhouse> so limit on transactions accessed not physical storage size
2371 2013-03-14 22:04:45 <randy-waterhouse> and base fees on transactions accessed also?
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2373 2013-03-14 22:08:07 <randy-waterhouse> jgarzik: makes sense, redefine the block space metric in terms of transactions space not physical space ... I like it
2374 2013-03-14 22:08:13 PlantMan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2376 2013-03-14 22:09:09 <randy-waterhouse> well physical memory byte space not 3-d space
2377 2013-03-14 22:09:24 btcur has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2378 2013-03-14 22:10:19 <randy-waterhouse> and you are charged for how much transaction space is consumed per tx
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2382 2013-03-14 22:10:51 <randy-waterhouse> bbl
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2387 2013-03-14 22:12:16 newbie is now known as 3!~blinky@cblmdm72-241-203-181.buckeyecom.net|blinky
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2389 2013-03-14 22:14:07 <MC-Droid> did we ever find out who mined the block of death
2390 2013-03-14 22:14:07 thepok has joined
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2392 2013-03-14 22:14:28 <Eleuthria> slush, 990 kb block
2393 2013-03-14 22:14:34 marijnfs has joined
2394 2013-03-14 22:14:38 ProfMac_ has joined
2395 2013-03-14 22:14:44 <MC-Droid> SLUSH!
2396 2013-03-14 22:14:53 <slush> hi
2397 2013-03-14 22:14:57 <Eleuthria> :P
2398 2013-03-14 22:15:05 Ant0 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2399 2013-03-14 22:15:10 <slush> what?
2400 2013-03-14 22:15:31 <slush> oh
2401 2013-03-14 22:15:33 <slush> guys
2402 2013-03-14 22:15:44 <slush> don't do this again
2403 2013-03-14 22:15:49 <Eleuthria> ?
2404 2013-03-14 22:15:55 <slush> my heart rate went up quickly :P
2405 2013-03-14 22:16:00 <Eleuthria> hah
2406 2013-03-14 22:16:02 <MC-Droid> lol
2407 2013-03-14 22:16:16 <MC-Droid> he jumpy
2408 2013-03-14 22:16:19 <slush> that's NOT funny :P
2409 2013-03-14 22:17:05 ProfMac_ has quit (Client Quit)
2410 2013-03-14 22:17:18 <ProfMac> l
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2415 2013-03-14 22:20:10 <thepok> 2600 unprocessed transactions :(
2416 2013-03-14 22:20:49 Insu has joined
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2419 2013-03-14 22:27:14 <jgarzik> thepok: blocks are running slower than average; normal for such conditions
2420 2013-03-14 22:27:27 <jgarzik> last two blocks by a rogue miner, who shipped zero transactions
2421 2013-03-14 22:28:06 MC-Droid_ has joined
2422 2013-03-14 22:28:46 jok has joined
2423 2013-03-14 22:29:02 <jok> hi@all
2424 2013-03-14 22:29:38 <jok> maybe who writes smth knows the answer http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15421023/mtgox-webstream-api ?
2425 2013-03-14 22:31:00 MC-Droid has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2426 2013-03-14 22:31:06 <jgarzik> jok: try #mtgox
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2441 2013-03-14 22:40:35 <jok> jgarzik, ok
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2443 2013-03-14 22:42:15 <warren> jgarzik: Does the design have any potential defense against intentional rogue miners?  I can see how profit seekers wouldn't do it, but it seems all we can do in response is just outpace the rogues.
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2488 2013-03-14 23:13:57 <randy-waterhouse> warren: halving block reward is a defense against rogue miners ... albeit long term strategy
2489 2013-03-14 23:14:07 <warren> ah
2490 2013-03-14 23:15:06 <randy-waterhouse> successful rising fees strategy being the corollary
2491 2013-03-14 23:16:09 Ant0 has joined
2492 2013-03-14 23:16:22 <warren> randy-waterhouse: although, an actor who has the goal of disruption doesn't care about the block reward.  They only want to undermine confidence in the system by delaying tx's.
2493 2013-03-14 23:16:38 Eleuthria has left ()
2494 2013-03-14 23:16:42 <warren> This is pretty theoretical and overly paranoid, I know.
2495 2013-03-14 23:16:45 <randy-waterhouse> mmm, are the really?
2496 2013-03-14 23:17:15 <randy-waterhouse> they can only afford to do it because of block reward is my guess ... but hey who knows?
2497 2013-03-14 23:18:10 qwertyoruiop has joined
2498 2013-03-14 23:18:29 <qwertyoruiop> okay sorry i asked in the main channel a few times and got no answer
2499 2013-03-14 23:18:33 <warren> randy-waterhouse: If profit is not a goal, like say a government wanted to undermine confidence in it because they are afraid of its potential.
2500 2013-03-14 23:18:47 <qwertyoruiop> my wallet is fucked up.
2501 2013-03-14 23:18:50 <qwertyoruiop> i mean; not corrupted.
2502 2013-03-14 23:18:56 <qwertyoruiop> i have the private key etc
2503 2013-03-14 23:19:05 <qwertyoruiop> it's just that i can not spend my coins.
2504 2013-03-14 23:19:10 <sipa> which client?
2505 2013-03-14 23:19:14 <qwertyoruiop> bitcoin-qt.
2506 2013-03-14 23:19:19 <qwertyoruiop> it's fully in sync with the network
2507 2013-03-14 23:19:21 <sipa> why can't you spend them?
2508 2013-03-14 23:19:31 <qwertyoruiop> sipa: transactions do not get broadcasted
2509 2013-03-14 23:19:40 <sipa> how do you know?
2510 2013-03-14 23:19:41 <qwertyoruiop> blockchain.info says my address has 1 bitcoin
2511 2013-03-14 23:19:52 crashoveride4 has joined
2512 2013-03-14 23:19:53 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2513 2013-03-14 23:19:53 <qwertyoruiop> sipa: they are not getting thru the netowkr
2514 2013-03-14 23:19:58 <qwertyoruiop> *network
2515 2013-03-14 23:19:58 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
2516 2013-03-14 23:20:07 <qwertyoruiop> like; i cannot see the transaction anywhere
2517 2013-03-14 23:20:12 <qwertyoruiop> time has passed.
2518 2013-03-14 23:20:19 <sipa> hmm, that shouldn't happen
2519 2013-03-14 23:20:24 <qwertyoruiop> anyway; the block chain says i have 1.52 coins
2520 2013-03-14 23:20:27 copumpkin has joined
2521 2013-03-14 23:20:30 <qwertyoruiop> blockexplorer says i have 1.52 coins
2522 2013-03-14 23:20:39 <sipa> and that is not correct?
2523 2013-03-14 23:20:40 nowan has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2524 2013-03-14 23:20:44 <qwertyoruiop> bitcoin-qt with a new wallet.dat w/ privkey imported
2525 2013-03-14 23:20:48 <qwertyoruiop> and synced
2526 2013-03-14 23:20:51 gercod has left ()
2527 2013-03-14 23:20:52 <qwertyoruiop> says i have 1.52 coins
2528 2013-03-14 23:20:53 <qwertyoruiop> NOW
2529 2013-03-14 23:20:55 agricocb has joined
2530 2013-03-14 23:21:02 <qwertyoruiop> blockchain.info's wallet
2531 2013-03-14 23:21:06 <qwertyoruiop> says i have 0.6 btc
2532 2013-03-14 23:21:16 <qwertyoruiop> (same privkey as the bitcoin-qt wallet)
2533 2013-03-14 23:21:36 <crashoveride4> try and send me 1.52 coins and see if it goes thur :D
2534 2013-03-14 23:21:37 nowan has joined
2535 2013-03-14 23:21:41 <qwertyoruiop> crashoveride4: lol
2536 2013-03-14 23:21:49 <qwertyoruiop> i tried to send 0.01 btc to some user in #bitcoin
2537 2013-03-14 23:21:54 DonnchaC has joined
2538 2013-03-14 23:22:03 <qwertyoruiop> 20 minutes ago; the transaction didnt get _broadcasted_ yet
2539 2013-03-14 23:22:11 <sipa> you're sharing a wallet between -qt and blockchain.info?
2540 2013-03-14 23:22:16 <qwertyoruiop> yes.
2541 2013-03-14 23:22:27 <sipa> did you do spends from both?
2542 2013-03-14 23:22:35 <qwertyoruiop> i did; and i am aware of double spends
2543 2013-03-14 23:22:38 zer0def has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2544 2013-03-14 23:22:47 <qwertyoruiop> anyway, those got sorted out apparently
2545 2013-03-14 23:22:53 <Scrat> qwertyoruiop: this is bad. b.i won't produce change addresses but bitcoin-qt will
2546 2013-03-14 23:22:53 <sipa> there is a risk that one of them did not see a transaction made by the other one
2547 2013-03-14 23:23:01 <qwertyoruiop> Scrat: aware of that
2548 2013-03-14 23:23:04 <qwertyoruiop> but that is not the issue
2549 2013-03-14 23:23:07 <sipa> and thus they try to spend the same coins
2550 2013-03-14 23:23:07 <qwertyoruiop> (checked personally)
2551 2013-03-14 23:23:22 <sipa> can you tell me a transaction id?
2552 2013-03-14 23:23:47 <qwertyoruiop> i'll give you my btc address now; you gotta wait for the txid
2553 2013-03-14 23:23:54 <qwertyoruiop> as the bitcoinqt client is on another box
2554 2013-03-14 23:23:55 <qwertyoruiop> 1SwagDQquoqokQCt4kEkY5HFY64BEZ6o1
2555 2013-03-14 23:24:04 <qwertyoruiop> (ignore the stupid vanity addr, it's a joke lol)
2556 2013-03-14 23:24:39 <sipa> i think you've made conflicting transactions between the two applications
2557 2013-03-14 23:24:50 <qwertyoruiop> indeed
2558 2013-03-14 23:24:50 <sipa> and they don't confirm or even get relayed because of that
2559 2013-03-14 23:24:57 <qwertyoruiop> ah
2560 2013-03-14 23:25:04 <qwertyoruiop> so, what should i do now?
2561 2013-03-14 23:25:21 <sipa> make a backup of your -qt wallet, and start the client with -salvagewallet
2562 2013-03-14 23:25:38 <sipa> that will rebuilt the wallet from scratch, without any transactions not in the blockchain
2563 2013-03-14 23:25:44 <qwertyoruiop> sipa: ah
2564 2013-03-14 23:25:47 <qwertyoruiop> done that manually
2565 2013-03-14 23:26:14 <qwertyoruiop> (dumped priv key, moved the btc wallet away and created a new one; then imported the privkey from console and reindexed)
2566 2013-03-14 23:26:30 <qwertyoruiop> it's still not working, that's why i'm puzzled
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2570 2013-03-14 23:27:23 <warren> qwertyoruiop: dumped privkey how?
2571 2013-03-14 23:27:39 <qwertyoruiop> pywallet _and_ console
2572 2013-03-14 23:27:52 <qwertyoruiop> they are identical
2573 2013-03-14 23:27:53 <qwertyoruiop> of course.
2574 2013-03-14 23:28:01 <warren> I've had problems with pywallet not dumping the original "account" privkey.
2575 2013-03-14 23:28:10 <qwertyoruiop> warren: anyway its a vanity address
2576 2013-03-14 23:28:14 <qwertyoruiop> i have the privkey saved
2577 2013-03-14 23:28:21 <qwertyoruiop> and i am sure all my funds are on that address
2578 2013-03-14 23:28:51 Anduck has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2579 2013-03-14 23:28:58 <rdponticelli> qwertyoruiop: you may have lost change addresses doing that manually
2580 2013-03-14 23:29:06 <qwertyoruiop> rdponticelli: i know
2581 2013-03-14 23:29:12 <qwertyoruiop> [00:06:58] <qwertyoruiop> and i am sure all my funds are on that address
2582 2013-03-14 23:29:21 <qwertyoruiop> i had no change addresses with money on them.
2583 2013-03-14 23:29:44 <qwertyoruiop> also i have a pywallet backup as well as a full wallet backup
2584 2013-03-14 23:29:48 <qwertyoruiop> so that is not the issue ATM
2585 2013-03-14 23:30:22 <qwertyoruiop> done salvagewallet, back at 1.52 coins
2586 2013-03-14 23:30:39 vellest has joined
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2588 2013-03-14 23:30:53 <rdponticelli> qwertyoruiop: If your transactions are on some miner mempools, you'll have to wait until somebody confirms them...
2589 2013-03-14 23:31:07 guest123 has joined
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2592 2013-03-14 23:31:25 <qwertyoruiop> rdponticelli: it hasn't been working for the past few horus
2593 2013-03-14 23:31:26 <qwertyoruiop> *hours
2594 2013-03-14 23:31:45 <qwertyoruiop> also the transactions are not even getting relayed
2595 2013-03-14 23:31:52 guest123 has joined
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2599 2013-03-14 23:32:48 Ant0 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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2601 2013-03-14 23:33:53 <qwertyoruiop> anyway
2602 2013-03-14 23:34:00 <qwertyoruiop> i'll go to sleep; i'll see tomorrow.
2603 2013-03-14 23:34:06 <qwertyoruiop> hope it'll fix automagically =P
2604 2013-03-14 23:34:07 Insu has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2605 2013-03-14 23:34:32 <rdponticelli> qwertyoruiop: It will, when some miner confirms some of your double spends....
2606 2013-03-14 23:34:44 <qwertyoruiop> hope that happens soon
2607 2013-03-14 23:34:45 <rdponticelli> But it may take a long way...
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2625 2013-03-14 23:51:29 <qwertyoruiop> yay
2626 2013-03-14 23:51:43 <qwertyoruiop> i successfuilly moved some coins
2627 2013-03-14 23:51:47 <qwertyoruiop> *successfully
2628 2013-03-14 23:51:47 crashoveride2 has joined
2629 2013-03-14 23:51:48 <qwertyoruiop> :)
2630 2013-03-14 23:52:11 <qwertyoruiop> aaaand its a double spend
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2635 2013-03-14 23:54:56 franciszek is now known as HANTI
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