1 2013-03-20 00:00:00 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: one more thing:  what would it take to get you to start building bitcoind into the OSX build?  If I gave you an effortless makefile that could slide right into the existing build process and bundle it along with the app, would you be willing to do that?  (I don't know if it's possible)
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   3 2013-03-20 00:00:38 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: I'm willing to do the work for it... I just want to know what your threshold is for dealing with it
   4 2013-03-20 00:01:02 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: I'm pretty darn busy....
   5 2013-03-20 00:01:30 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: if you or somebody trustworthy wants to package a bitcoind, then that'd be cool
   6 2013-03-20 00:01:53 <gavinandresen> (somebody else trustworthy… I trust you)
   7 2013-03-20 00:01:56 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen:  I'd prefer to bundle it into the existing build process so it can piggyback on the normal the distribution
   8 2013-03-20 00:02:06 <etotheipi_> but I understand you're busy
   9 2013-03-20 00:02:18 <warren> sounds like delegation =)
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  11 2013-03-20 00:03:32 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: if you find a simple fix for the makefile.osx so I can make -f makefile.osx RELEASE=1  … and end up with a bitcoind that runs on everybody's machines, then I'd be happy to do that
  12 2013-03-20 00:03:53 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: perfect, that's exactly what I'm going to try to do!
  13 2013-03-20 00:04:13 <etotheipi_> hopefully it's possible
  14 2013-03-20 00:04:39 <gavinandresen> peeking, I guess it would be RELEASE=1 STATIC=1 ....
  15 2013-03-20 00:05:04 <warren> deterministic is required too?
  16 2013-03-20 00:05:17 <gavinandresen> no, osx builds aren't deterministic
  17 2013-03-20 00:05:39 <gavinandresen> we don't have a cross-compile / VM environment that works
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  19 2013-03-20 00:05:42 <gmaxwell> Luke started on stuff to make them determinstic (and cross compilable) but it was a rather boil the oceans level change.
  20 2013-03-20 00:05:44 <etotheipi_> oh, so there's no gitian process for verifying it?
  21 2013-03-20 00:05:48 <gavinandresen> nope
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  23 2013-03-20 00:07:36 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: I'm compiling RELEASE=1 STATIC=1 on my build machine now, I'll upload the binary for you to play with. I don't remember what the issues were last time...
  24 2013-03-20 00:07:54 TheSeven has joined
  25 2013-03-20 00:08:19 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: that would be great!  thanks
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  27 2013-03-20 00:08:52 <kinlo> when a bitcoin node is banned, how can I unban it?
  28 2013-03-20 00:08:57 <gavinandresen> just be sure to test it on a machine that hasn't had the developers tools installed
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  30 2013-03-20 00:09:11 <kinlo> will this happen automatically after time?
  31 2013-03-20 00:09:15 <gavinandresen> kinlo: restart, bans are saved in memory
  32 2013-03-20 00:09:31 <gavinandresen> kinlo: … or wait, I think default bantime is 24 hours
  33 2013-03-20 00:09:35 <etotheipi_> gavinandresen: yeah I have a fresh OSX VM to test it on
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  42 2013-03-20 00:17:53 <gavinandresen> etotheipi_: http://skypaint.com/bitcoin/bitcoind.osx
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  57 2013-03-20 00:28:01 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: Would you mind adding a link to the lesswrong post?  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155054.msg1643945#msg1643945
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  59 2013-03-20 00:28:50 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: done
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  61 2013-03-20 00:29:17 <jgarzik> tnx
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  71 2013-03-20 00:36:24 <alexwaters> :)
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  78 2013-03-20 00:45:40 <zebedee_> It seems that the Satoshi client codebase assumes the host is little-endian.  Is that intended?
  79 2013-03-20 00:45:42 <pegu> mew
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  84 2013-03-20 00:50:01 <gmaxwell> zebedee_: Yes.
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  86 2013-03-20 00:50:29 <zebedee_> gmaxwell: Is there a reason for that, or is it just that fixing it would be difficult?
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  88 2013-03-20 00:51:01 <gmaxwell> zebedee_: BE platforms are currently not supported. Turns out that its a lot of work to fix because of all the places satoshi's software just directly hashed in-memory datastructures.
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  90 2013-03-20 00:51:26 <zebedee_> Yuk, yes.  Lol.
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  92 2013-03-20 00:52:15 <gmaxwell> luke had an incomplete start at fixing it: http://gitorious.org/~Luke-Jr/bitcoin/luke-jr-bitcoin/commits/endian
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  94 2013-03-20 00:52:39 <warren> how much of a performance impact would fixing have?
  95 2013-03-20 00:52:56 topace__ has joined
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  97 2013-03-20 00:53:18 <gmaxwell> warren: None, if wanted, since it could just do the swaps just in time in just the right places and be ifdefed out on LE platforms.
  98 2013-03-20 00:53:34 <warren> ah
  99 2013-03-20 00:54:02 MC-Droid has joined
 100 2013-03-20 00:54:04 <gmaxwell> using BE in the datastructures would have likely adversily impacted performance somewhat... but that can't be done now in any case.
 101 2013-03-20 00:54:26 <gavinandresen> Download links on the other-language versions of the bitcoin wiki are out-of-date… anybody how how the translations work?
 102 2013-03-20 00:55:12 eckey has joined
 103 2013-03-20 00:56:36 <skinnkavaj> guys we need to bring more power to TOR project in the future so feds won shut us down
 104 2013-03-20 00:58:16 <p8m> TOR is the feds
 105 2013-03-20 00:58:47 <gmaxwell> skinnkavaj: p8m: Tor's IRC channel is on irc.oftc.net #tor (and #tor-dev). If you want to talk about tor perhaps there.
 106 2013-03-20 01:00:10 <p8m> Rob Pike says to write code that works regardless of the endianess of the host, instead of using ifdefs
 107 2013-03-20 01:00:16 john5223 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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 109 2013-03-20 01:01:19 <p8m> So for little endian data: i = (data[0]<<0) | (data[1]<<8) | (data[2]<<16) | (data[3]<<24);
 110 2013-03-20 01:01:30 <p8m> Or big endian: i = (data[3]<<0) | (data[2]<<8) | (data[1]<<16) | (data[0]<<24);
 111 2013-03-20 01:01:51 <p8m> The same code runs on all machines.
 112 2013-03-20 01:01:58 <gmaxwell> p8m: Yes, we're all famaliar with writing endianness neutral code.
 113 2013-03-20 01:02:46 bitafterbit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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 115 2013-03-20 01:04:45 <p8m> gmaxwell: Too bad Satoshi wasn't.
 116 2013-03-20 01:04:54 <egecko> who said he wasnt?
 117 2013-03-20 01:04:56 <gmaxwell> I don't know about that.
 118 2013-03-20 01:05:45 <egecko> tricks, man, tricks.
 119 2013-03-20 01:06:12 <gmaxwell> Constantly reserializing things needlessly might bad for performance especially as we need to worry about endianness not just at I/O time but all over the place internally due to hashing..
 120 2013-03-20 01:06:36 <MC-Droid> hal posted on the forum again
 121 2013-03-20 01:07:04 <MC-Droid> il be honest it gave me a manly tear to see him keep on keeping on
 122 2013-03-20 01:07:56 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 123 2013-03-20 01:08:45 <MC-Droid> especially still actively giving time to the bitcoin project
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 132 2013-03-20 01:29:27 <keystroke> i just received "Error opening block database. Do you want to rebuild the block database now?"
 133 2013-03-20 01:29:29 <keystroke> 0.8.1
 134 2013-03-20 01:30:31 <keystroke> i clicked ok and it is reindexing
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 147 2013-03-20 01:45:38 <Vinnie_win> Does anyone know "Shaman Iotas Took?"
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 156 2013-03-20 01:55:58 <BTC_Bear> Vinnie_win: Yes, I think everyone that uses bitcoin does. lol
 157 2013-03-20 01:59:27 preppacity has joined
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 165 2013-03-20 02:11:42 gfdsgfdhre has joined
 166 2013-03-20 02:11:46 <gfdsgfdhre> █▓▒10 Bitcoin=$279.99 (www.bitswing.com) [delivery in 5 minutes]no phone call for verify,no personal information need  2 Bitcoin=$89.99 5 Bitcoin=$199.99 20 Bitcoin=$489.99 www.bitswing.com 30 Bitcoin=$699.99 40 Bitcoin=$899.99 50 Bitcoin=$1099.99 http://www.bitswing.com http://www.bitswing.com
 167 2013-03-20 02:11:46 RBecker is now known as rbecker
 168 2013-03-20 02:12:29 gfdgfdshre has joined
 169 2013-03-20 02:12:33 <gfdgfdshre> █▓▒10 Bitcoin=$279.99 (www.bitswing.com) [delivery in 5 minutes]no phone call for verify,no personal information need  2 Bitcoin=$89.99 5 Bitcoin=$199.99 20 Bitcoin=$489.99 www.bitswing.com 30 Bitcoin=$699.99 40 Bitcoin=$899.99 50 Bitcoin=$1099.99 http://www.bitswing.com http://www.bitswing.com
 170 2013-03-20 02:12:59 sanchaz has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 171 2013-03-20 02:13:12 <k9quaint> sounds like a reputable chap
 172 2013-03-20 02:13:26 <Vinnie_win> it's "BitsWing" (lol)
 173 2013-03-20 02:15:06 NewYorker has left ()
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 175 2013-03-20 02:22:24 <swappermall> Bitswing is a scam, folks.  They ripped me off.
 176 2013-03-20 02:22:52 <swappermall> gfdgfdshre should be banned from this channel
 177 2013-03-20 02:22:53 <k9quaint> but, they have a URL
 178 2013-03-20 02:23:12 <swappermall> thanks for the boot gribble
 179 2013-03-20 02:23:32 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 180 2013-03-20 02:23:41 <swappermall> yeah, a very charming URL too
 181 2013-03-20 02:24:41 <swappermall> I'm surprised they're still scamming from the same URL.  They usually change their URL after a week.
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 183 2013-03-20 02:26:49 <johnDoe9> yay
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 225 2013-03-20 03:25:44 <slush> Can I ask you if this coinbase is valid for v2 blocks? http://blockchain.info/tx/c099eeb94ba170ca3b4e0f067b093130391ec7ca02f143b782e84b5f201040a5
 226 2013-03-20 03:25:57 <slush> sipa: Luke-Jr ^
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 229 2013-03-20 03:29:07 <BlueMatt> etotheipi_: I tried today, but I accidentally broke the deps so half the packages failed to build...I just need to resubmit, Ill do that sometime very soon after midterms tomorrow
 230 2013-03-20 03:29:55 bernard75 has quit ()
 231 2013-03-20 03:29:58 TheXev has joined
 232 2013-03-20 03:31:06 <etotheipi_> BlueMatt: actually I'm not asking for any particular version, I'm just trying to recommend methods to people, I didn't know how closely the PPA follows the bitcoin.org release
 233 2013-03-20 03:31:26 <BlueMatt> its always within a week, usually a day or two
 234 2013-03-20 03:31:38 <etotheipi_> I just wanted to know if "OMG EVERYONE MUST UPGRADE NOW" is possible with the PPA
 235 2013-03-20 03:31:54 <BlueMatt> yea, if its a crazy security update I could push right away
 236 2013-03-20 03:32:02 <BlueMatt> (though launchpad takes an hour or five to build)
 237 2013-03-20 03:32:22 <etotheipi_> okay
 238 2013-03-20 03:32:24 <BlueMatt> though if its a security update I think I can tag them to get them built faster.....
 239 2013-03-20 03:32:35 <etotheipi_> It's really not a big deal, I just wanted to know
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 255 2013-03-20 03:36:39 <k9quaint> BTC_Bear: I use bitcoin, and I missed the memo on the shaman
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 259 2013-03-20 03:38:39 <BTC_Bear> k9quaint: The nick is an anagram.
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 267 2013-03-20 03:39:49 <k9quaint> so thats it?
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 276 2013-03-20 03:45:44 <k9quaint> I would have picked Mania Soaks Tooth
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 349 2013-03-20 04:49:19 bfdxhnfdshre has joined
 350 2013-03-20 04:49:25 Raccoon has joined
 351 2013-03-20 04:49:26 <bfdxhnfdshre> █▓▒10 Bitcoin=$279.99 (www.bitswing.com) [delivery in 5 minutes]no phone call for verify,no personal information need  2 Bitcoin=$89.99 5 Bitcoin=$199.99 20 Bitcoin=$489.99 www.bitswing.com 30 Bitcoin=$699.99 40 Bitcoin=$899.99 50 Bitcoin=$1099.99 http://www.bitswing.com http://www.bitswing.com
 352 2013-03-20 04:50:17 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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 361 2013-03-20 05:01:25 akjsf99 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 362 2013-03-20 05:05:02 oru has joined
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 366 2013-03-20 05:13:20 gfdsghreghrewg has joined
 367 2013-03-20 05:13:25 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 368 2013-03-20 05:13:26 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 369 2013-03-20 05:13:26 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 370 2013-03-20 05:13:27 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 371 2013-03-20 05:13:27 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 372 2013-03-20 05:13:27 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 373 2013-03-20 05:13:28 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 374 2013-03-20 05:13:28 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 375 2013-03-20 05:13:28 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 376 2013-03-20 05:13:29 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 377 2013-03-20 05:13:29 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 378 2013-03-20 05:13:30 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 379 2013-03-20 05:13:30 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 380 2013-03-20 05:13:31 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 381 2013-03-20 05:13:31 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 382 2013-03-20 05:13:32 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 383 2013-03-20 05:13:37 <Eneerge> blow me
 384 2013-03-20 05:13:43 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 385 2013-03-20 05:13:44 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 386 2013-03-20 05:13:44 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 387 2013-03-20 05:13:45 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 388 2013-03-20 05:13:45 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 389 2013-03-20 05:13:46 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 390 2013-03-20 05:13:46 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 391 2013-03-20 05:13:47 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 392 2013-03-20 05:13:47 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 393 2013-03-20 05:13:48 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 394 2013-03-20 05:13:48 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 395 2013-03-20 05:13:49 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 396 2013-03-20 05:13:49 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 397 2013-03-20 05:13:50 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 398 2013-03-20 05:13:50 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 399 2013-03-20 05:13:51 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 400 2013-03-20 05:14:17 xtor_ has joined
 401 2013-03-20 05:14:29 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 402 2013-03-20 05:14:29 <ryan_> gfdsghreghrewg: thats an amazing deal
 403 2013-03-20 05:14:30 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 404 2013-03-20 05:14:30 <ryan_> whoa
 405 2013-03-20 05:14:30 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 406 2013-03-20 05:14:31 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 407 2013-03-20 05:14:32 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 408 2013-03-20 05:14:32 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 409 2013-03-20 05:14:33 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 410 2013-03-20 05:14:33 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 411 2013-03-20 05:14:34 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 412 2013-03-20 05:14:35 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 413 2013-03-20 05:14:43 qwertyoruiop is now known as zz_qwertyoruiop
 414 2013-03-20 05:15:39 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 415 2013-03-20 05:15:39 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 416 2013-03-20 05:15:40 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 417 2013-03-20 05:15:40 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 418 2013-03-20 05:15:41 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 419 2013-03-20 05:15:41 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 420 2013-03-20 05:15:42 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 421 2013-03-20 05:15:43 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 422 2013-03-20 05:15:43 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 423 2013-03-20 05:15:44 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 424 2013-03-20 05:15:44 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 425 2013-03-20 05:15:45 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 426 2013-03-20 05:15:45 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 427 2013-03-20 05:15:46 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 428 2013-03-20 05:15:46 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 429 2013-03-20 05:15:47 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 430 2013-03-20 05:16:30 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 431 2013-03-20 05:16:30 <gfdsghreghrewg> http://redd.it/1an9c8 5 Bitcoin only$199.99
 432 2013-03-20 05:16:39 kerum has quit (Quit: Winning)
 433 2013-03-20 05:16:41 <gwillen> jgarzik: ^
 434 2013-03-20 05:17:15 <jgarzik> ;;kban gfdsghreghrewg 900000
 435 2013-03-20 05:17:15 <gribble> Error: You don't have the #bitcoin-dev,op capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
 436 2013-03-20 05:17:31 <gwillen> Thanks.
 437 2013-03-20 05:17:32 <ryan_> I kind of want to make a bot to buy from those guys and sell @mtgox
 438 2013-03-20 05:17:39 <ryan_> would be making great money
 439 2013-03-20 05:18:07 extor has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 440 2013-03-20 05:18:55 <gmaxwell> what do these morons think they're doing? I boggle.
 441 2013-03-20 05:19:04 lb4956 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 442 2013-03-20 05:19:27 <epylar> wow, think of the arbitrage opportunities
 443 2013-03-20 05:19:35 <Graet> trying to make people boggle - they win!! lol
 444 2013-03-20 05:19:49 <gmaxwell> "Were you put on this earth just for the purpose of reminding me that there are some things I'll never understand?"
 445 2013-03-20 05:20:32 jjiimm_64 is now known as jimbit
 446 2013-03-20 05:21:23 hektor86z has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 447 2013-03-20 05:22:38 <jgarzik> ;;ident
 448 2013-03-20 05:22:38 <gribble> You are not identified.
 449 2013-03-20 05:23:18 helo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 450 2013-03-20 05:24:25 <jgarzik> ;;ident
 451 2013-03-20 05:24:26 <gribble> You are identified as user jgarzik, with GPG key id DA1DC20F2DBF0CA8, key fingerprint 60B00235B3355D84BF2A4E35DA1DC20F2DBF0CA8, and bitcoin address None
 452 2013-03-20 05:24:38 <jgarzik> ;;ident
 453 2013-03-20 05:24:38 <gribble> You are not identified.
 454 2013-03-20 05:24:59 <Arnavion> Silly amnesiac bot
 455 2013-03-20 05:25:01 <jgarzik> nanotube: Would be nice to -not- require #bitcoin-otc presence, for ident
 456 2013-03-20 05:25:04 <gmaxwell> practicing for peekaboo?
 457 2013-03-20 05:25:13 <jgarzik> gribble requires #bitcoin-otc presence
 458 2013-03-20 05:25:55 <jgarzik> It's disappointing, to open #bitcoin-otc, just to be able to ;;kban in #bitcoin-dev
 459 2013-03-20 05:26:19 extor has joined
 460 2013-03-20 05:26:52 <gmaxwell> you can join #bitcoin-otc-bans and hang out with the banned trolls, as thats sufficient.
 461 2013-03-20 05:27:22 <warren> Are we unwilling to require registration for this channel?
 462 2013-03-20 05:28:16 JDuke128 has joined
 463 2013-03-20 05:29:07 <nanotube> jgarzik: being authed on otc has nothing to do with the ,op capability. :P
 464 2013-03-20 05:29:47 TradeFortress has joined
 465 2013-03-20 05:29:49 <jgarzik> nanotube: <gribble> Error: You don't have the #bitcoin-dev,op capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
 466 2013-03-20 05:30:07 <jgarzik> nanotube: I cannot be identified without continual presence in #bitcoin-otc
 467 2013-03-20 05:30:08 xtor_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 468 2013-03-20 05:30:35 <jgarzik> nanotube: otherwise ;;ident breaks
 469 2013-03-20 05:30:38 sebuba has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 470 2013-03-20 05:31:15 tyn has joined
 471 2013-03-20 05:31:43 tyn has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
 472 2013-03-20 05:31:45 <nanotube> jgarzik: yea... except otc ident has nothing to do with the other 'identification' bits. yea it's confusing.... but that's just the way it is. :)
 473 2013-03-20 05:31:49 <nanotube> ;;ident jgarzik
 474 2013-03-20 05:31:49 <gribble> Nick 'jgarzik', with hostmask 'jgarzik!~jgarzik@unaffiliated/jgarzik', is not identified.
 475 2013-03-20 05:31:55 <nanotube> see, you're not otcauthed
 476 2013-03-20 05:32:03 <nanotube> but you have #bitcoin-dev,op capability now
 477 2013-03-20 05:32:05 <jgarzik> nanotube: scroll up
 478 2013-03-20 05:32:07 <nanotube> so e.g, feel free to give me a kick
 479 2013-03-20 05:32:11 <nanotube> (i just gave it to you :) )
 480 2013-03-20 05:32:23 <nanotube> (so yes i know you didn't have it 5 minutes ago)
 481 2013-03-20 05:32:44 <jgarzik> nanotube: I was otc-authed as the scrollback shows.  Then I left #bitcoin-otc (now shown in scrollback).  And I was no longer auth'd, after that.  See before-and-after ";;ident"
 482 2013-03-20 05:32:44 skeledrew has joined
 483 2013-03-20 05:32:59 tyn has joined
 484 2013-03-20 05:33:05 <jgarzik> *not shown
 485 2013-03-20 05:33:08 <nanotube> well yes. you have to be on otc to be gpg-authed. but that doesn't have anything to do with irc kicking caps
 486 2013-03-20 05:33:32 <nanotube> which is what i assume you were having in mind at the moment
 487 2013-03-20 05:34:13 <nanotube> that said, if you think it'd be useful to be gpg-authed without being on otc, -dev can be added.
 488 2013-03-20 05:34:40 egecko is now known as gfawkes
 489 2013-03-20 05:34:40 <warren> that would be nice
 490 2013-03-20 05:35:15 <nanotube> done
 491 2013-03-20 05:39:39 gfawkes is now known as egecko
 492 2013-03-20 05:39:47 egecko is now known as gfawkes
 493 2013-03-20 05:40:22 lizzin has joined
 494 2013-03-20 05:40:29 balrog has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 495 2013-03-20 05:41:11 nethershaw has quit (Quit: Process terminated by flamethrower.)
 496 2013-03-20 05:41:26 owowo has quit (Quit: sayonara)
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 498 2013-03-20 05:42:18 normanrichards has joined
 499 2013-03-20 05:43:45 ThomasV has joined
 500 2013-03-20 05:46:49 balrog has joined
 501 2013-03-20 05:47:50 <Diablo-D3> hey, whats the url of that program that generates vanity addresses
 502 2013-03-20 05:48:12 gfawkes has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
 503 2013-03-20 05:48:31 gfawkes has joined
 504 2013-03-20 05:51:38 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 505 2013-03-20 05:53:10 cads has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 506 2013-03-20 05:54:41 <nanotube> probably google vanitygen or some such...
 507 2013-03-20 05:55:19 canoon has joined
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 509 2013-03-20 05:59:03 alphaguru has joined
 510 2013-03-20 05:59:28 cap2002 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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 512 2013-03-20 06:05:54 FredEE has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 513 2013-03-20 06:13:37 ashod has joined
 514 2013-03-20 06:15:10 <ashod> is project funding for bitcoin startups common?
 515 2013-03-20 06:16:31 paraipan has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
 516 2013-03-20 06:16:47 <ashod> put it another way, any one looking for funding for their bc project ?
 517 2013-03-20 06:16:57 lizzin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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 528 2013-03-20 06:42:56 random_cat has joined
 529 2013-03-20 06:43:22 maji has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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 531 2013-03-20 06:48:20 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
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 533 2013-03-20 06:49:34 bitafterbit has joined
 534 2013-03-20 06:52:32 gfinn has joined
 535 2013-03-20 06:53:08 ashod has joined
 536 2013-03-20 06:53:23 <ashod> hi , got a question about rpc
 537 2013-03-20 06:54:04 <ashod> whenever i call getblockhash with an index which is out of range , it disconnects the tcp connection from my app to bitcoind
 538 2013-03-20 06:54:30 <ashod> why do some functions , just return an error, and remain connected, yet others end the connection ?
 539 2013-03-20 06:57:14 <ashod> anyone ?
 540 2013-03-20 06:57:17 Diablo-D3 has quit (Quit: do coders dream of sheep()?)
 541 2013-03-20 06:57:32 <muhoo> ashod: i've not seen that behavior
 542 2013-03-20 06:57:36 maji has joined
 543 2013-03-20 06:57:43 RazielZ has joined
 544 2013-03-20 06:58:07 feral has left ()
 545 2013-03-20 06:58:12 <ashod> try issuing getblockhash 1234567 , does it close the connection ?
 546 2013-03-20 06:58:19 <muhoo> i can send all kinds of crazy commands, and i get an error or nil. maybe whatever json-rpc client you're using is flaky?
 547 2013-03-20 06:58:43 <jgarzik> maybe the client closes connection on error
 548 2013-03-20 06:58:57 <jgarzik> (the json-rpc client that is, not the bitcoin client)
 549 2013-03-20 06:59:13 <ashod> no the client is written by me, - i dont close it
 550 2013-03-20 06:59:45 <jgarzik> ashod: and you're using HTTP/1.1 with connection keep-alive headers?
 551 2013-03-20 07:00:18 * muhoo would suggest some quality time with wireshark
 552 2013-03-20 07:00:38 random_cat has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 553 2013-03-20 07:00:43 <ashod> yes, it stays connected, eexcepted when i call getblockhash with an index out of range -- the server actually responds with connection: close in the http header
 554 2013-03-20 07:00:55 n1c has joined
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 556 2013-03-20 07:01:44 Diablo-D3 has joined
 557 2013-03-20 07:01:52 random_cat has joined
 558 2013-03-20 07:02:16 random_cat has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 559 2013-03-20 07:03:16 random_cat has joined
 560 2013-03-20 07:03:34 random_cat has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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 562 2013-03-20 07:04:17 random_cat has joined
 563 2013-03-20 07:06:02 nimdAHK has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 564 2013-03-20 07:06:16 <jgarzik> ashod: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2390
 565 2013-03-20 07:06:37 oleganza has joined
 566 2013-03-20 07:06:48 canoon has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 567 2013-03-20 07:10:09 <muhoo> OIC, it returns 500. and it also presents a error and exception, and my rpc client doesn't care if the connection gets severed, it shows the exception anyway, so i never noticed that. huh.
 568 2013-03-20 07:10:49 gfawkes_ has joined
 569 2013-03-20 07:11:03 <ashod> ok just found the same, got a 500 result code
 570 2013-03-20 07:11:54 <ashod> so why does getblockhash cause the 500, but not others, which just return the error in the body
 571 2013-03-20 07:12:12 ThomasV has joined
 572 2013-03-20 07:12:47 gfawkes has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 573 2013-03-20 07:13:19 <muhoo> dunno. even successful calls return 200, adn close the connection, my client doesnt' care
 574 2013-03-20 07:14:11 grau has joined
 575 2013-03-20 07:14:20 <SomeoneWeird> "and led to at least one user complaint on IRC."
 576 2013-03-20 07:14:22 <muhoo> ashod: looks like you've got a ticket open now though, so i guess sit tight and wait for a fix, or jump in and try to make one.
 577 2013-03-20 07:14:23 <SomeoneWeird> lol
 578 2013-03-20 07:14:43 ToryJujube has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 579 2013-03-20 07:16:06 ToryJujube has joined
 580 2013-03-20 07:16:08 <ashod> this is causing the 500
 581 2013-03-20 07:16:10 <ashod> {"jsonrpc": "1.0", "id":"rqid3745995","method": "getblockhash", "params": [227900]}
 582 2013-03-20 07:19:23 canoon has joined
 583 2013-03-20 07:19:28 <muhoo> ashod: yep, you found one. i guess either wait for someone to fix it, or have a look at the source code and see if you want to fix it.
 584 2013-03-20 07:19:55 coblee has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 585 2013-03-20 07:20:01 Tritonio has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 586 2013-03-20 07:20:22 <gfawkes_> that doesnt request doesnt look right
 587 2013-03-20 07:20:28 coblee has joined
 588 2013-03-20 07:21:05 <doublec> I wonder how many pools, if any, are generating version 2 blocks with invalid block heights in the coinbase
 589 2013-03-20 07:21:13 <doublec> so when the supermajority happens their blocks won't be valid
 590 2013-03-20 07:21:25 Ashaman_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 591 2013-03-20 07:22:06 Tritonio has joined
 592 2013-03-20 07:23:20 john_____ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 593 2013-03-20 07:24:08 <doublec> I know of at least one so I'm curious if there are others
 594 2013-03-20 07:24:17 <ashod> gavinandresen is the guy who does it ?
 595 2013-03-20 07:25:21 paybitcoin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 596 2013-03-20 07:28:02 JDuke128 has quit (Quit: [BB])
 597 2013-03-20 07:28:29 <ashod> {"result":null,"error":{"code":-1,"message":"Block number out of range."},"id":"rqid2762753"}
 598 2013-03-20 07:30:47 eloims has joined
 599 2013-03-20 07:33:14 kerum has joined
 600 2013-03-20 07:33:52 Lolcust has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 601 2013-03-20 07:35:00 gfawkes__ has joined
 602 2013-03-20 07:35:07 gfdshreshres has joined
 603 2013-03-20 07:35:17 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 604 2013-03-20 07:35:17 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 605 2013-03-20 07:35:18 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 606 2013-03-20 07:35:18 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 607 2013-03-20 07:35:18 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 608 2013-03-20 07:35:19 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 609 2013-03-20 07:35:19 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 610 2013-03-20 07:35:19 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 611 2013-03-20 07:35:19 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 612 2013-03-20 07:35:20 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 613 2013-03-20 07:35:20 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 614 2013-03-20 07:35:21 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last dayshttp://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 615 2013-03-20 07:35:21 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 616 2013-03-20 07:35:22 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 617 2013-03-20 07:35:22 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 618 2013-03-20 07:35:23 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 619 2013-03-20 07:35:32 gfawkes_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 620 2013-03-20 07:35:35 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 621 2013-03-20 07:35:35 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last dayshttp://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 622 2013-03-20 07:35:36 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 623 2013-03-20 07:35:36 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last dayshttp://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 624 2013-03-20 07:35:37 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last dayshttp://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 625 2013-03-20 07:35:38 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 626 2013-03-20 07:35:38 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 627 2013-03-20 07:35:39 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 628 2013-03-20 07:35:40 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last dayshttp://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 629 2013-03-20 07:35:41 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last dayshttp://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 630 2013-03-20 07:35:42 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 631 2013-03-20 07:35:42 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 632 2013-03-20 07:36:49 Lolcust has joined
 633 2013-03-20 07:37:11 nimdAHK_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 634 2013-03-20 07:37:45 <kerum> someone ban this dude
 635 2013-03-20 07:38:04 <Diablo-D3> dont worry, Ive already sent his IP to the FBI's CP tip line
 636 2013-03-20 07:39:16 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 637 2013-03-20 07:39:17 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 638 2013-03-20 07:39:17 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 639 2013-03-20 07:39:17 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 640 2013-03-20 07:39:18 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 641 2013-03-20 07:39:18 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 642 2013-03-20 07:39:18 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 643 2013-03-20 07:39:18 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 644 2013-03-20 07:39:19 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 645 2013-03-20 07:39:19 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 646 2013-03-20 07:39:19 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 647 2013-03-20 07:39:20 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 648 2013-03-20 07:39:20 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 649 2013-03-20 07:39:21 <gfdshreshres> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 650 2013-03-20 07:39:45 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: ahem.
 651 2013-03-20 07:40:13 <kerum> jesus...
 652 2013-03-20 07:40:31 <ryan_> that shit's legit
 653 2013-03-20 07:40:45 <Diablo-D3> is 0.8.1 out yet?
 654 2013-03-20 07:40:54 <sivu> Diablo-D3: thats too bad for the japanese isp but doesnt prevent flooding
 655 2013-03-20 07:41:25 CodesInChaos has joined
 656 2013-03-20 07:41:30 <Diablo-D3> thats assuming hes even actually in japan
 657 2013-03-20 07:41:45 <gfdshreshres>  0 Share on linkedin Share on facebook Share on twitter Share on email More Sharing Services 0 █▓▒10 Bitcoin=$279.99 (www.bitswing.com) [delivery in 5 minutes]no phone call for verify,no personal information need 2 Bitcoin=$89.99 5 Bitcoin=$199.99 20 Bitcoin=$489.99 www.bitswing.com 30 Bitcoin=$699.99 40 Bitcoin=$899.99 50 Bitcoin=$1099.99 http://www.bitswing.com http://www.bitswing.com  █▓▒10 Bitcoin=$279.99 (
 658 2013-03-20 07:42:13 bfgdshreshre has joined
 659 2013-03-20 07:42:18 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 660 2013-03-20 07:42:19 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 661 2013-03-20 07:42:19 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 662 2013-03-20 07:42:19 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 663 2013-03-20 07:42:19 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 664 2013-03-20 07:42:20 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 665 2013-03-20 07:42:20 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 666 2013-03-20 07:42:20 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 667 2013-03-20 07:42:21 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 668 2013-03-20 07:42:21 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 669 2013-03-20 07:42:22 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 670 2013-03-20 07:42:22 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 671 2013-03-20 07:42:23 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 672 2013-03-20 07:42:34 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 673 2013-03-20 07:42:34 <bfgdshreshre> v
 674 2013-03-20 07:42:35 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 675 2013-03-20 07:42:35 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 676 2013-03-20 07:42:36 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 677 2013-03-20 07:42:36 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 678 2013-03-20 07:42:37 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 679 2013-03-20 07:42:37 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 680 2013-03-20 07:42:38 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 681 2013-03-20 07:42:38 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 682 2013-03-20 07:42:39 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 683 2013-03-20 07:42:39 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 684 2013-03-20 07:42:40 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 685 2013-03-20 07:42:40 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 686 2013-03-20 07:42:41 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 687 2013-03-20 07:42:41 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 688 2013-03-20 07:42:42 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 689 2013-03-20 07:42:42 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 690 2013-03-20 07:42:54 <ryan_> bfgdshreshre: how can you afford such a damn good deal?
 691 2013-03-20 07:42:58 <weex> manual pasting lol
 692 2013-03-20 07:43:01 <kerum> Diablo-D3: 0.8.1-beta is available for download at http://bitcoin.org
 693 2013-03-20 07:43:16 <n1c> ....
 694 2013-03-20 07:43:30 <Diablo-D3> kerum: actually, seems its 0.8.1 final
 695 2013-03-20 07:43:30 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 696 2013-03-20 07:43:31 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 697 2013-03-20 07:43:32 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 698 2013-03-20 07:43:32 <Diablo-D3> time to upgradeo
 699 2013-03-20 07:44:15 <kerum> god bless /ignore
 700 2013-03-20 07:44:29 teefs has joined
 701 2013-03-20 07:44:29 <Diablo-D3> I know, right?
 702 2013-03-20 07:44:45 <sivu> people/bots dont know how to flood properly these days
 703 2013-03-20 07:44:56 <sivu> it was different in '94
 704 2013-03-20 07:44:58 <kerum> Diablo-D3: yesterday i downloaded the beta from there...
 705 2013-03-20 07:45:10 <Diablo-D3> kerum: says it was released the 18th
 706 2013-03-20 07:45:10 Boydy has joined
 707 2013-03-20 07:45:34 <ryan_> exec -o yes http://redd.it/1ang9c 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 708 2013-03-20 07:46:03 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 709 2013-03-20 07:46:04 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 710 2013-03-20 07:46:04 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 711 2013-03-20 07:46:05 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 712 2013-03-20 07:46:05 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 713 2013-03-20 07:46:06 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 714 2013-03-20 07:46:06 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 715 2013-03-20 07:46:06 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 716 2013-03-20 07:46:07 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 717 2013-03-20 07:46:07 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 718 2013-03-20 07:46:08 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 719 2013-03-20 07:46:08 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 720 2013-03-20 07:46:08 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 721 2013-03-20 07:46:09 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 722 2013-03-20 07:46:09 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 723 2013-03-20 07:46:10 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 724 2013-03-20 07:46:13 <Diablo-D3> lol
 725 2013-03-20 07:46:18 <ryan_> bfgdshreshre: do you need help with this flooding?
 726 2013-03-20 07:46:19 <kerum> Diablo-D3: i dunno, when i click About->Bitcoin, it shows 0.8.1-beta
 727 2013-03-20 07:46:21 <ryan_> I will gladly help you
 728 2013-03-20 07:46:28 <ryan_> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 729 2013-03-20 07:46:29 <ryan_> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 730 2013-03-20 07:46:29 <ryan_> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 731 2013-03-20 07:46:29 <ryan_> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 732 2013-03-20 07:46:30 <Diablo-D3> kerum: its a bug in the release method
 733 2013-03-20 07:46:33 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 734 2013-03-20 07:46:34 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 735 2013-03-20 07:46:34 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 736 2013-03-20 07:46:35 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 737 2013-03-20 07:46:35 <ryan_> you guys should totalyl click that link
 738 2013-03-20 07:46:35 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 739 2013-03-20 07:46:35 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 740 2013-03-20 07:46:36 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 741 2013-03-20 07:46:36 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 742 2013-03-20 07:46:37 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 743 2013-03-20 07:46:37 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 744 2013-03-20 07:46:38 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 745 2013-03-20 07:46:39 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 746 2013-03-20 07:46:39 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 747 2013-03-20 07:46:39 <Diablo-D3> kerum: every version ever calls itself a beta
 748 2013-03-20 07:46:39 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 749 2013-03-20 07:46:40 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 750 2013-03-20 07:46:40 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 751 2013-03-20 07:46:40 bitafterbit has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 752 2013-03-20 07:46:41 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 753 2013-03-20 07:46:45 <kerum> oh...
 754 2013-03-20 07:46:52 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 755 2013-03-20 07:46:53 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 756 2013-03-20 07:46:53 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 757 2013-03-20 07:46:54 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 758 2013-03-20 07:46:54 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 759 2013-03-20 07:47:01 <kerum> well, in that case, 0.8.1 is out;)
 760 2013-03-20 07:48:17 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 761 2013-03-20 07:48:18 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 762 2013-03-20 07:48:18 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 763 2013-03-20 07:48:18 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 764 2013-03-20 07:48:18 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 765 2013-03-20 07:48:18 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 766 2013-03-20 07:48:18 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 767 2013-03-20 07:48:19 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1angng   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 768 2013-03-20 07:48:40 teefs has left ()
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 774 2013-03-20 07:58:06 ralphtheninja has joined
 775 2013-03-20 07:58:15 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anh1k   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 776 2013-03-20 07:58:15 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anh1k   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 777 2013-03-20 07:58:16 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anh1k   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 778 2013-03-20 07:58:16 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anh1k   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 779 2013-03-20 07:58:16 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anh1k   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 780 2013-03-20 07:58:16 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anh1k   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 781 2013-03-20 07:58:17 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anh1k   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 782 2013-03-20 07:58:17 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anh1k   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 783 2013-03-20 07:58:17 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anh1k   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 784 2013-03-20 07:58:18 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anh1k   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 785 2013-03-20 07:58:19 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anh1k   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 786 2013-03-20 07:58:19 <bfgdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anh1k   50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
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 798 2013-03-20 08:05:52 mayan is now known as maji
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 803 2013-03-20 08:11:17 <muhoo> oh wtf
 804 2013-03-20 08:12:36 <muhoo> who's got ops on this chan?
 805 2013-03-20 08:14:48 Lolcust has quit (Quit: Nap time)
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 810 2013-03-20 08:18:13 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 811 2013-03-20 08:18:14 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 812 2013-03-20 08:18:14 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 813 2013-03-20 08:18:14 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 814 2013-03-20 08:18:15 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 815 2013-03-20 08:18:15 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 816 2013-03-20 08:18:15 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 817 2013-03-20 08:18:16 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 818 2013-03-20 08:18:16 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 819 2013-03-20 08:18:16 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 820 2013-03-20 08:18:17 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last dayshttp://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 821 2013-03-20 08:18:17 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 822 2013-03-20 08:18:17 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 823 2013-03-20 08:18:18 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 824 2013-03-20 08:19:22 xtor_ has joined
 825 2013-03-20 08:20:28 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 826 2013-03-20 08:20:28 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> .http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 827 2013-03-20 08:20:28 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 828 2013-03-20 08:20:28 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 829 2013-03-20 08:20:29 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
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 834 2013-03-20 08:22:32 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 835 2013-03-20 08:22:33 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 836 2013-03-20 08:22:33 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 837 2013-03-20 08:22:33 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 838 2013-03-20 08:22:33 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 839 2013-03-20 08:22:33 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 840 2013-03-20 08:22:34 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 841 2013-03-20 08:22:35 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 842 2013-03-20 08:22:35 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 843 2013-03-20 08:22:35 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 844 2013-03-20 08:22:36 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 845 2013-03-20 08:22:36 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 846 2013-03-20 08:23:11 extor has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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 848 2013-03-20 08:23:54 Boydy has quit (Quit: Erection reset by beer.)
 849 2013-03-20 08:25:08 debiantoruser has joined
 850 2013-03-20 08:25:46 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 851 2013-03-20 08:25:47 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 852 2013-03-20 08:25:47 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 853 2013-03-20 08:25:47 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 854 2013-03-20 08:25:47 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 855 2013-03-20 08:25:47 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 856 2013-03-20 08:25:47 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 857 2013-03-20 08:25:48 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 858 2013-03-20 08:25:48 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 859 2013-03-20 08:25:49 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 860 2013-03-20 08:25:49 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 861 2013-03-20 08:25:50 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 862 2013-03-20 08:27:51 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 863 2013-03-20 08:27:51 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 864 2013-03-20 08:27:52 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 865 2013-03-20 08:27:52 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 866 2013-03-20 08:27:55 RoboTeddy has joined
 867 2013-03-20 08:28:35 Ant0 has joined
 868 2013-03-20 08:28:42 tockitj has joined
 869 2013-03-20 08:29:26 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 870 2013-03-20 08:29:26 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 871 2013-03-20 08:29:26 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 872 2013-03-20 08:29:27 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 873 2013-03-20 08:29:28 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 874 2013-03-20 08:29:28 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last dayshttp://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last dayshttp://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 875 2013-03-20 08:29:29 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last dayshttp://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 876 2013-03-20 08:29:30 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 877 2013-03-20 08:29:30 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 878 2013-03-20 08:29:31 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 879 2013-03-20 08:29:31 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 880 2013-03-20 08:30:10 <n1c> lol
 881 2013-03-20 08:30:14 <n1c> Did you fuck up the copy/paste spam?
 882 2013-03-20 08:30:15 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 883 2013-03-20 08:30:16 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 884 2013-03-20 08:30:16 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 885 2013-03-20 08:30:17 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 886 2013-03-20 08:30:17 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 887 2013-03-20 08:30:18 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 888 2013-03-20 08:30:18 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 889 2013-03-20 08:30:19 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 890 2013-03-20 08:30:20 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 891 2013-03-20 08:30:20 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 892 2013-03-20 08:30:20 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 893 2013-03-20 08:30:20 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 894 2013-03-20 08:30:22 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 895 2013-03-20 08:30:22 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 896 2013-03-20 08:30:22 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 897 2013-03-20 08:30:22 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anhmt 50 bitcoin only$1099 last days
 898 2013-03-20 08:33:05 <bfdsbfdsbhfd> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin=$899.99 50 Bitcoin=$1099.99
 899 2013-03-20 08:33:28 <n1c> Ah, thanks.
 900 2013-03-20 08:33:47 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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 905 2013-03-20 08:40:08 <bfdsjhresh> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin=$899.99 50 Bitcoin=$1099.99
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 909 2013-03-20 08:41:26 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day
 910 2013-03-20 08:41:27 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day
 911 2013-03-20 08:41:28 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day
 912 2013-03-20 08:41:29 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day
 913 2013-03-20 08:41:29 <vfdsgre> v
 914 2013-03-20 08:41:29 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day
 915 2013-03-20 08:41:29 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day
 916 2013-03-20 08:41:30 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day
 917 2013-03-20 08:41:30 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day
 918 2013-03-20 08:41:31 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day
 919 2013-03-20 08:41:32 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last dayhttp://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last dayhttp://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day
 920 2013-03-20 08:41:32 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day
 921 2013-03-20 08:41:33 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day
 922 2013-03-20 08:41:33 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day
 923 2013-03-20 08:41:33 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day
 924 2013-03-20 08:41:34 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day
 925 2013-03-20 08:41:34 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day
 926 2013-03-20 08:41:35 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last dayhttp://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day
 927 2013-03-20 08:41:39 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last dayhttp://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last dayhttp://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day
 928 2013-03-20 08:41:44 <jotik^^> vfdsgre: what are you implying?
 929 2013-03-20 08:41:44 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day-
 930 2013-03-20 08:41:52 orblivion has joined
 931 2013-03-20 08:41:58 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day-
 932 2013-03-20 08:42:05 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$8
 933 2013-03-20 08:42:05 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$8
 934 2013-03-20 08:42:06 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$8
 935 2013-03-20 08:42:06 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$8
 936 2013-03-20 08:42:06 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$8
 937 2013-03-20 08:42:07 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$8
 938 2013-03-20 08:42:07 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$8
 939 2013-03-20 08:42:08 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$8
 940 2013-03-20 08:42:10 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$8
 941 2013-03-20 08:42:10 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$8
 942 2013-03-20 08:42:10 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$8
 943 2013-03-20 08:42:11 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$8
 944 2013-03-20 08:42:11 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$8
 945 2013-03-20 08:42:12 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$8
 946 2013-03-20 08:42:12 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$8
 947 2013-03-20 08:42:13 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$8
 948 2013-03-20 08:42:13 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$8
 949 2013-03-20 08:42:14 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$8
 950 2013-03-20 08:42:14 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$8
 951 2013-03-20 08:42:26 <vfdsgre> http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day- http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$899.99 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last day http://redd.it/1anicm 40 Bitcoin only$8
 952 2013-03-20 08:42:27 <jotik^^> vfdsgre: want bitcoins?
 953 2013-03-20 08:43:00 jotik^^ is now known as jotik
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 956 2013-03-20 08:46:50 <jotik> that got him!
 957 2013-03-20 08:47:02 <n1c> *clap*
 958 2013-03-20 08:47:09 <n1c> I gave in and just ignored him.
 959 2013-03-20 08:47:32 <jotik> :D
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 963 2013-03-20 08:51:54 <mogri> i got bored and made this: https://github.com/mogri/satoshidice-betting-model/blob/master/satoshidice.py
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 988 2013-03-20 09:21:01 <muhoo> pretty cool. man i can't rememebr the last time i was bored.
 989 2013-03-20 09:21:25 <phantomcircuit> muhoo, im going to start with the moment you started typing that sentence
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 995 2013-03-20 09:24:15 <peawormsworth> I am curious about the easiest way to accept bitcoins as payment on a website.
 996 2013-03-20 09:24:24 <peawormsworth> is this an appropriate discussion on this channel?
 997 2013-03-20 09:24:43 <n1c> Have you seen https://coinbase.com/ ?
 998 2013-03-20 09:24:57 <jeremias> coinbase is pretty awesome
 999 2013-03-20 09:25:01 <muhoo> phantomcircuit: procrastinating != bored
1000 2013-03-20 09:25:01 <peawormsworth> checking...
1001 2013-03-20 09:25:21 <muhoo> peawormsworth: bitpay.com too
1002 2013-03-20 09:25:31 Anduck has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1003 2013-03-20 09:25:55 <peawormsworth> well im not sure. I am more interesting in programming myself rather then using a web service.
1004 2013-03-20 09:26:00 rdymac has joined
1005 2013-03-20 09:26:16 <muhoo> heh, well you could be busy
1006 2013-03-20 09:26:21 <muhoo> there's multibitmerchant
1007 2013-03-20 09:26:45 <muhoo> which needs some help, but it's got a lot already there
1008 2013-03-20 09:27:04 <peawormsworth> i am a payment processing programmer. I know perl and python among others. Im not a merchant myself.
1009 2013-03-20 09:27:28 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1010 2013-03-20 09:28:35 <peawormsworth> i am curious about using a hosted solution for which I will not have complete control for running applications of my choice. It has been suggested I use a pool of addresses to present to clients for payment and update the pool over time.
1011 2013-03-20 09:28:54 <peawormsworth> I am curious if address generation is something which can be performed directly by bitcoind.
1012 2013-03-20 09:28:57 <muhoo> well i'm writing exactly tah at the moment
1013 2013-03-20 09:29:29 <muhoo> which is, i think, an economically stupid thing to do but i'm economically stupid, so i'm doing it.
1014 2013-03-20 09:30:03 <weex> peawormsworth: bitcoind getnewaddress
1015 2013-03-20 09:30:18 <peawormsworth> weex: thx i will look into that.
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1020 2013-03-20 09:32:21 <peawormsworth> I see this location for some details on bitcoind arguments: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Original_Bitcoin_client/API_calls_list. Is there other good locations for info, possibly with examples?
1021 2013-03-20 09:32:26 jevin__ is now known as jevin
1022 2013-03-20 09:32:56 <muhoo> peawormsworth: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Original_Bitcoin_client/API_Calls_list
1023 2013-03-20 09:32:57 <weex> bitcoind help is pretty good
1024 2013-03-20 09:33:09 <muhoo> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Elis-API
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1026 2013-03-20 09:33:20 <muhoo> and https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_reference_%28JSON-RPC%29
1027 2013-03-20 09:33:35 <peawormsworth> thx much. u are all excellent help!!!
1028 2013-03-20 09:36:33 <peawormsworth> muhoo: were u refering to this earlier: "https://github.com/gary-rowe/MultiBitMerchant"? I assume.
1029 2013-03-20 09:36:39 <muhoo> yes.
1030 2013-03-20 09:36:51 <peawormsworth> ok. thx i will investigate. good luck with ur work.
1031 2013-03-20 09:36:59 <muhoo> np, good luck with yours as well!
1032 2013-03-20 09:38:31 <muhoo> btw, multibitmerchant is not mine, but it seems like it has the best chance of being viable
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1038 2013-03-20 09:44:12 <ascisco> could anyone in here help me with a javascript question
1039 2013-03-20 09:44:13 <ascisco> ?
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1050 2013-03-20 09:51:43 <peawormsworth> I see the bitcoind has a -server option. Would this allow dual usage as a graphical display and  a way to pass requests to the client similar to bitcoind at the same time?
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1058 2013-03-20 09:53:43 <peawormsworth> ^^^ i meant to say: "bitcoin-qt -server" option. Does this provide dual usage to send rpc/api requests to the client and also have them appear locally through the graphical display at the same time?
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1075 2013-03-20 10:23:01 <peawormsworth> to answer my question above: yes. "bitcoin-qt -server" allows daemon requests that instantly appear in the graphical client as well. getnewaddress returns a text address code in the terminal and a new address slot appears in btc-qt as well.
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1096 2013-03-20 10:50:48 <sipa> kerum, Diablo-D3: working as intended; every bitciin release to date has been beta
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1098 2013-03-20 10:51:26 <kerum> yeah, noticed that
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1107 2013-03-20 11:01:02 <yeahrock> hi! I've upgraded my client from v0.7.2.0-g32a928e-beta to v0.8.1-beta and get the "please remove everything but wallet.dat" message. is this normal and can is there a workaround?
1108 2013-03-20 11:01:46 <sivu> maybe the workaround is to remove everything but wallet.dat
1109 2013-03-20 11:02:40 <yeahrock> sivu: that would not be "working around" :)
1110 2013-03-20 11:03:14 <yeahrock> sivu: if I remove everything, I'll have to resync again which takes for hours on that slow machine...
1111 2013-03-20 11:03:53 <sivu> it works around the message so that the message does not appear. so it's a workaround
1112 2013-03-20 11:04:01 nus- has joined
1113 2013-03-20 11:04:29 <sivu> i guess you would like a faster workaround
1114 2013-03-20 11:05:13 <yeahrock> sivu: indeed.
1115 2013-03-20 11:05:37 <yeahrock> sivu: but I think you don't know of one, otherwise you would already have told me about it, right?
1116 2013-03-20 11:05:52 <kinlo> kinda surprises me that bitcoind would tell that
1117 2013-03-20 11:06:10 <sivu> yeahrock: i use electrum mainly so
1118 2013-03-20 11:06:12 <kinlo> in any case, downloading iwth 0.8 is a LOT faster then with 0.7
1119 2013-03-20 11:06:52 <peawormsworth> I have a question about block creation and a statement on the wiki page about it.
1120 2013-03-20 11:06:54 <yeahrock> kinlo: thanks. last time I downloaded a huge-ass torrent file and only had to verify the blocks. is that recommended?
1121 2013-03-20 11:07:16 <kinlo> yeahrock: the blocks are in the blockXXXXX.dat files
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1123 2013-03-20 11:07:35 <kinlo> yeahrock: as long as they are not corrupt you could try the loadblock option
1124 2013-03-20 11:07:41 <peawormsworth> yeahrock: I double ur question. I wonder if downloading is "safe"
1125 2013-03-20 11:08:12 <yeahrock> peawormsworth: from what I understood, it's safe since the blocks are checked against the network when loaded, no?
1126 2013-03-20 11:08:31 <peawormsworth> i would think to agree. but im not sure of the actual programming.
1127 2013-03-20 11:08:44 <kinlo> the blocks are verified yes
1128 2013-03-20 11:09:30 <sipa> -loadblock -reindex and bootstrap.dat are verified
1129 2013-03-20 11:09:40 <sipa> they all use the same code
1130 2013-03-20 11:10:04 <kinlo> does -loadblock accept multiple files?
1131 2013-03-20 11:10:22 <sipa> no, but youbcan specify it multiple times
1132 2013-03-20 11:10:38 <kinlo> it would make sense to just start fresh, copy wallet.dat and -loadblock the old data
1133 2013-03-20 11:10:51 <kinlo> at this moment I still have some "dead" files
1134 2013-03-20 11:11:35 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
1135 2013-03-20 11:12:04 <yeahrock> kinlo: I see thanks.
1136 2013-03-20 11:12:09 <sipa> use contrib/tidy_datadir.sh
1137 2013-03-20 11:12:17 <yeahrock> Anbody know _why_ the message appears, though?
1138 2013-03-20 11:12:36 <yeahrock> Are my data corrupt or is it standard when upgrading from .7 to .8 ?
1139 2013-03-20 11:13:03 <sipa> it means your data is corrupted
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1141 2013-03-20 11:13:57 <yeahrock> sipa: so, upgrade to .8, leave datadir in place, just run tidy_datadir.sh ?
1142 2013-03-20 11:14:00 <peawormsworth> yeahrock: do u have the link to current blockchains. I thought I had bookmark, but cannot find it.
1143 2013-03-20 11:14:18 <peawormsworth> and google is taking me to something that appears different.
1144 2013-03-20 11:15:02 <yeahrock> peawormsworth: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=blockchain+torrent
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1146 2013-03-20 11:17:15 <peawormsworth> i have a question about this text: "The 'length' of the entire block chain  refers to the chain with the most combined difficulty, not the one with  the most blocks. This prevents someone from forking the chain and  creating a large number of low-difficulty blocks, and having it accepted  by the network as 'longest'. "
1147 2013-03-20 11:17:27 <Diablo-D3> peawormsworth: no, its the most blocks.
1148 2013-03-20 11:17:45 <peawormsworth> I get the above in principal... but how would someone "create a large number of low-difficulty blocks" if the process is an algorithm.
1149 2013-03-20 11:17:52 <Diablo-D3> they cant.
1150 2013-03-20 11:18:05 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin rejects blocks that don't have the right difficulty
1151 2013-03-20 11:18:05 <peawormsworth> I mean you should not be able to intentionally create a block that somehow leads to easy subsequent blocks... that would be impossible.
1152 2013-03-20 11:18:09 <peawormsworth> right
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1154 2013-03-20 11:19:40 <sipa> Diablo-D3: incorrect, it is most combined difficulty, but that us almost always the same
1155 2013-03-20 11:19:50 <Diablo-D3> sipa: since when?
1156 2013-03-20 11:19:58 <sipa> since always
1157 2013-03-20 11:20:04 <Diablo-D3> the whitepaper doesnt describe it that way
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1159 2013-03-20 11:20:08 <peawormsworth> ok. i guess i was just confused by the wording. I thought that it implied there may be a simple process of block generation .
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1161 2013-03-20 11:20:20 <Diablo-D3> peawormsworth: the process IS simple
1162 2013-03-20 11:20:26 <Diablo-D3> it just involves brute force.
1163 2013-03-20 11:20:42 <peawormsworth> well simple as in fast way to get successful matches.
1164 2013-03-20 11:21:05 <sipa> you need a reorg across a 2016-block-cycle-boundary to get a difference between length and combined difficulty
1165 2013-03-20 11:21:21 <Diablo-D3> sipa: ahh. which… has never happened?
1166 2013-03-20 11:21:31 <sipa> not sure
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1168 2013-03-20 11:21:42 <sipa> but ut is likely that it indeed never happened
1169 2013-03-20 11:21:44 <Diablo-D3> I dont think the fix we just did was more than 2016 blocks
1170 2013-03-20 11:22:21 <peawormsworth> i was wondering what would happen if ever there was hash collission. and then all future blocks could be a cycle of all the blocks between.
1171 2013-03-20 11:22:30 <sipa> it doesn't need to be more than 2016 blocks
1172 2013-03-20 11:22:36 <sipa> just across a boundary
1173 2013-03-20 11:22:40 <Diablo-D3> sipa: oh hrm
1174 2013-03-20 11:22:42 <Diablo-D3> might have happened
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1177 2013-03-20 11:22:53 <Diablo-D3> peawormsworth: thats unlikely
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1179 2013-03-20 11:23:03 <Diablo-D3> the clients would probably switch how they name blocks internally
1180 2013-03-20 11:23:08 <Diablo-D3> "foo, descendant of bar"
1181 2013-03-20 11:23:10 <peawormsworth> i agree. but in theory it would allow instant generation of all 21 million coin.
1182 2013-03-20 11:23:24 <Diablo-D3> no, it'd actually prevent generation of the rest
1183 2013-03-20 11:23:25 <peawormsworth> unless the blocks are forced to be unique otherwise rejected.
1184 2013-03-20 11:23:33 <Diablo-D3> coins are produced using gen tx
1185 2013-03-20 11:23:58 stalled has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1186 2013-03-20 11:24:04 <Diablo-D3> also, sha256 is not known to have any collissions
1187 2013-03-20 11:24:09 <peawormsworth> so in the one universe were this occurs, I guess the 51% agree not to accept this block.
1188 2013-03-20 11:24:48 <sivu> Diablo-D3: ofcourse there's collisions. you cannot pack unlimited amount of bits into 256bits without collisions
1189 2013-03-20 11:25:01 <peawormsworth> i am not a hash expert, but if the total input bits is greater then the output bits... i would suggest collission is possible.
1190 2013-03-20 11:25:01 <Diablo-D3> sivu: not given a 80 byte header.
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1192 2013-03-20 11:25:23 <Diablo-D3> peawormsworth: theres math for that.
1193 2013-03-20 11:26:03 <peawormsworth> right i am speaking beyond my knowledge. Im just unsure if maths have proven hash colission on AES 256 yet.
1194 2013-03-20 11:26:12 <Diablo-D3> SHA not AES
1195 2013-03-20 11:26:16 <peawormsworth> right.
1196 2013-03-20 11:26:43 <Diablo-D3> the most likely outcome is, yes, there is a collision on any input more than 256 bits.
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1198 2013-03-20 11:27:06 <Diablo-D3> but given how sha256 is used in bitcoin for mining, its unlikely we'll ever see one
1199 2013-03-20 11:27:25 <peawormsworth> how many total blocks are expected before 21 million coins are mined?
1200 2013-03-20 11:27:39 <Diablo-D3> peawormsworth: you wont live to see it.
1201 2013-03-20 11:27:39 stalled has joined
1202 2013-03-20 11:27:40 <peawormsworth> im guessing about 1 million. ???
1203 2013-03-20 11:27:58 <peawormsworth> o right... the block generation continues beyond the coin limit.
1204 2013-03-20 11:28:08 <Diablo-D3> thats not what I meant.
1205 2013-03-20 11:28:22 <Diablo-D3> coins will be mined until sometime in the 2100s.
1206 2013-03-20 11:28:50 <peawormsworth> 2^256 is a large number. so collission only occurs in a universe that is not our own.
1207 2013-03-20 11:29:13 <Diablo-D3> peawormsworth: unless we happen to be in that universe
1208 2013-03-20 11:29:37 <Diablo-D3> we won't know which universe we're in unless that observational state collapses
1209 2013-03-20 11:30:17 <peawormsworth> well if the collapse happens, im selling my bitcoins.
1210 2013-03-20 11:30:31 <Diablo-D3> I think if I ever make a bitcoin competitor, it'll use a 512 bit hash
1211 2013-03-20 11:30:48 <Diablo-D3> just so I have more room in the header and can do it in a single block
1212 2013-03-20 11:33:40 <erska> peawormsworth: assuming no protocol changes, the last block to generate bitcoins is block 6,929,999
1213 2013-03-20 11:34:02 <erska> after that, the 1 satoshi generation reward is rounded down to 0
1214 2013-03-20 11:34:11 <peawormsworth> ok. interesting.
1215 2013-03-20 11:34:19 gbfdshreshre has joined
1216 2013-03-20 11:34:44 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1annfp 50 bitcoin only $1099 last day,last day
1217 2013-03-20 11:34:45 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1annfp 50 bitcoin only $1099 last day,last day
1218 2013-03-20 11:34:45 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1annfp 50 bitcoin only $1099 last day,last day
1219 2013-03-20 11:34:45 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1annfp 50 bitcoin only $1099 last day,last day
1220 2013-03-20 11:34:46 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1annfp 50 bitcoin only $1099 last day,last day
1221 2013-03-20 11:34:46 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1annfp 50 bitcoin only $1099 last day,last day
1222 2013-03-20 11:34:46 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1annfp 50 bitcoin only $1099 last day,last day
1223 2013-03-20 11:34:47 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1annfp 50 bitcoin only $1099 last day,last day
1224 2013-03-20 11:34:47 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1annfp 50 bitcoin only $1099 last day,last day
1225 2013-03-20 11:34:47 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1annfp 50 bitcoin only $1099 last day,last day
1226 2013-03-20 11:34:48 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1annfp 50 bitcoin only $1099 last day,last day
1227 2013-03-20 11:34:48 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1annfp 50 bitcoin only $1099 last day,last day
1228 2013-03-20 11:34:49 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1annfp 50 bitcoin only $1099 last day,last dayhttp://redd.it/1annfp 50 bitcoin only $1099 last day,last day
1229 2013-03-20 11:34:49 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1annfp 50 bitcoin only $1099 last day,last day
1230 2013-03-20 11:34:49 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1annfp 50 bitcoin only $1099 last day,last day
1231 2013-03-20 11:34:50 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1annfp 50 bitcoin only $1099 last day,last day
1232 2013-03-20 11:35:20 cap2002 has left ()
1233 2013-03-20 11:35:22 cap2002 has joined
1234 2013-03-20 11:36:23 <peawormsworth> i only click links repeated 20 times.
1235 2013-03-20 11:36:32 <Graet> wise move
1236 2013-03-20 11:36:32 Ant0 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1237 2013-03-20 11:37:49 <n1c> They are the only ones you can trust.
1238 2013-03-20 11:37:57 <peawormsworth> where can I find details on what each of the columns means in a block summary?
1239 2013-03-20 11:38:06 <peawormsworth> I am referring to columns found on a page like this: https://blockchain.info/block-index/362640/00000000000001073232cdfb74c82e4403960472599a19c5e8f528be43bbd752
1240 2013-03-20 11:38:12 _dr has joined
1241 2013-03-20 11:39:21 <peawormsworth> I mention this because I see "Number of Transactions: 10", and sometimes I see lower like only 1 or 2 transactions. And Im uncertain if this means what I believe it means.
1242 2013-03-20 11:39:39 <sivu> how many transactions were included in the block
1243 2013-03-20 11:40:05 <peawormsworth> does this represent all bitcoin transactions the occurred since last block generation?
1244 2013-03-20 11:40:08 <sivu> it says in the header "Transactions Transactions contained within this block"
1245 2013-03-20 11:40:31 <sivu> it represents the number of transactions included in the block
1246 2013-03-20 11:40:45 <peawormsworth> I guess maybe i need to read more then.
1247 2013-03-20 11:40:59 <peawormsworth> I would assume transaction volume would be greater... considering satchidice.
1248 2013-03-20 11:42:35 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
1249 2013-03-20 11:43:02 <peawormsworth> ^^^ satoshidice (obviously) oops.
1250 2013-03-20 11:44:26 HANTI is now known as hanti
1251 2013-03-20 11:45:59 <jaakkos> peawormsworth: to collide a particular hash in an unbroken sha256 with probability p, one needs to do ln(1-p)/ln((2^256 - 1)/(2^256)) attempts, this number's order of magnitude is 2^255 - this also applies if you want to collide against a small group of hashes, eg. that of all bitcoin blocks.
1252 2013-03-20 11:46:57 <peawormsworth> I cannot verify this, but i was thinking the birthday paradox might be involved.
1253 2013-03-20 11:47:03 <jaakkos> it is not
1254 2013-03-20 11:47:21 <jaakkos> the complexity of a birthday attack is 2^128
1255 2013-03-20 11:47:26 <Diablo-D3> jaakkos: yeah, but thats to purposely collide
1256 2013-03-20 11:47:32 <Diablo-D3> right?
1257 2013-03-20 11:47:57 <jaakkos> in a birthday attack, you are free to generate an increasing amount of hashes that you attempt to collide against
1258 2013-03-20 11:48:34 <Diablo-D3> no I meant your math above
1259 2013-03-20 11:48:40 <jaakkos> to collide a block in bitcoin, you only have hundreds of thousands of hashes that you must target, which can be reasonably approximated to 1.
1260 2013-03-20 11:48:55 <muhoo> TD: i've noticed something strange with TransactionConfidence's MemoryPool, and PeerGroup. there's a ceiling on how many peers it seems able to reliably listen to simultaneously
1261 2013-03-20 11:49:21 <peawormsworth> ok. i was just thinking that the possibility increases with the number of already generated/known blocks. But this is probably irrelevant considering the pool size. But also, I am not experienced with statistics.
1262 2013-03-20 11:49:31 <jaakkos> Diablo-D3: what is the alternative to purposedly?
1263 2013-03-20 11:49:34 <jaakkos> accidentially?
1264 2013-03-20 11:49:37 <Diablo-D3> yeah
1265 2013-03-20 11:50:02 <Diablo-D3> peawormsworth was worried about two blocks with the same hash
1266 2013-03-20 11:50:13 <jaakkos> i don't think there is much difference whether you do it accidentially or purposedly, the number of attempts needed is still the same
1267 2013-03-20 11:50:31 <peawormsworth> yes. where worried = curious.
1268 2013-03-20 11:50:43 <muhoo> TD: if i setMaxConnections(80), most tx'es have a confidence of max 20-25 numBroadcastPeers(). if i set max connections to 19, i can get 19 numBroadsastPeers typically
1269 2013-03-20 11:51:02 <muhoo> must sleep now though
1270 2013-03-20 11:51:23 <jaakkos> peawormsworth: the possibility does increase but it's very much insignificant.
1271 2013-03-20 11:52:17 <jaakkos> peawormsworth: if the number of generated blocks increases without any limitations, then the question is about a birthday attack, but for bitcoin, you can as well approximate current 226000 ~= 1, you won't notice a difference in the results.
1272 2013-03-20 11:52:26 <skinnkavaj> in sweden we have something called FRA, thats why facebook established in sweden, i'm just having a question if using VPN tunnels shields you from FRA
1273 2013-03-20 11:53:46 <peawormsworth> jaakkos: i think ur answer is beyond my understanding so i will just trust u. for example i cannot find the 'p' button on my calculator when I type: (1-p)/ln((2^256 - 1)/(2^256))
1274 2013-03-20 11:53:50 kermit_ has joined
1275 2013-03-20 11:53:59 <jaakkos> peawormsworth: p is the probability, between 0 and 1
1276 2013-03-20 11:54:29 <peawormsworth> and my calulator is requesting a specific value for it. weird ;-)
1277 2013-03-20 11:54:40 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
1278 2013-03-20 11:56:29 <kermit_> !ticker --last
1279 2013-03-20 11:56:29 <gribble> 59.00000
1280 2013-03-20 11:56:42 <jaakkos> peawormsworth: to derive it: the prob to avoid collision after 1 attempt: (2^256 - 1)/(2^256), the prob to get (= 1 - avoid) collision after x attempts: 1 - ((2^256 - 1)/(2^256))^x = p, so ((2^256 - 1)/(2^256))^x = 1 - p, then take ln() on both sides and divide to get x.
1281 2013-03-20 11:57:25 daybyter has joined
1282 2013-03-20 11:57:25 <jaakkos> peawormsworth: of course you need to pick a value for p that you are interested in
1283 2013-03-20 11:57:41 <peawormsworth> the more i look at it the more i do kind of get it. Seems like its nearly (1-p)/ln(1) right?
1284 2013-03-20 11:57:50 <peawormsworth> or no.
1285 2013-03-20 11:57:50 <kermit_> no this is false
1286 2013-03-20 11:57:57 <kermit_> (1-p)^x
1287 2013-03-20 11:58:03 <kermit_> not 1-p^x
1288 2013-03-20 11:58:42 <peawormsworth> isnt (2^256 -1)/(2^256) very close to 1?
1289 2013-03-20 11:59:09 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1290 2013-03-20 11:59:16 <jaakkos> yes
1291 2013-03-20 11:59:50 i2pRelay has joined
1292 2013-03-20 11:59:55 <kermit_> (bighugenumber- x)/(bighugenumber) = 1
1293 2013-03-20 11:59:56 <peawormsworth> ln(1) = 0 ... so nearly dividing by zero means nearly infinite.
1294 2013-03-20 12:00:25 <peawormsworth> im dumming it down for myself here.
1295 2013-03-20 12:00:48 <kermit_> I think an introductionary book on highschool math would be a good start
1296 2013-03-20 12:00:57 <peawormsworth> * or dumbing as u educated types say.
1297 2013-03-20 12:01:00 <jaakkos> kermit_: 1 - ((2^256 - 1)/(2^256))^x is correct
1298 2013-03-20 12:01:12 <kermit_> dont think so
1299 2013-03-20 12:01:17 <kermit_> its (1-p)^x
1300 2013-03-20 12:01:21 <kermit_> not 1-p^x
1301 2013-03-20 12:01:32 <kermit_> number of failures after x attempts
1302 2013-03-20 12:01:52 <kermit_> chance of a string of x failures consequative
1303 2013-03-20 12:02:08 <kermit_> simple bournelli
1304 2013-03-20 12:02:43 <kermit_> p = success, 1-p = failure, hence the chance of x successive failures is  (1-p)^x
1305 2013-03-20 12:02:46 <kermit_> to simple
1306 2013-03-20 12:03:19 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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1311 2013-03-20 12:08:40 <jaakkos> kermit_: i'm not arguing on this. i suggest you re-read my original line.
1312 2013-03-20 12:09:04 Ant0 has joined
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1315 2013-03-20 12:11:05 <doublec> have we already hit a supermajority?
1316 2013-03-20 12:11:16 dawei101 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1317 2013-03-20 12:11:38 <doublec> I'm getting "ERROR: AcceptBlock() : block height mismatch in coinbase" in my logs in a old node
1318 2013-03-20 12:11:59 dawei101 has joined
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1324 2013-03-20 12:15:30 <kermit_> jaakos, you should know that (bughugefatnumber -x)/(bughugefatnumber) is always for all practical purposes equal to 1
1325 2013-03-20 12:15:35 <kermit_> for all reasonable small x
1326 2013-03-20 12:15:43 <kermit_> I dont understand why you ask it here
1327 2013-03-20 12:15:54 i2pRelay has joined
1328 2013-03-20 12:16:32 <kermit_> If you fail to get that then bournelli (1-p)^x = propability of x successive failures in a row might just be a bridge to far
1329 2013-03-20 12:17:02 <kermit_> if you cant lift 5kg you cant lift 500kg
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1339 2013-03-20 12:24:40 BTC_Bear is now known as BTC_Bear|hbrntng
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1343 2013-03-20 12:28:11 xrns has joined
1344 2013-03-20 12:28:54 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1345 2013-03-20 12:28:54 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1346 2013-03-20 12:28:54 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1347 2013-03-20 12:28:54 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1348 2013-03-20 12:28:55 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1349 2013-03-20 12:28:55 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1350 2013-03-20 12:28:55 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1351 2013-03-20 12:28:55 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1352 2013-03-20 12:28:56 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1353 2013-03-20 12:28:56 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1354 2013-03-20 12:28:57 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1355 2013-03-20 12:28:57 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1356 2013-03-20 12:29:08 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1357 2013-03-20 12:29:57 ascisco has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1358 2013-03-20 12:30:29 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1359 2013-03-20 12:30:29 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1360 2013-03-20 12:30:29 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1361 2013-03-20 12:30:30 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1362 2013-03-20 12:30:30 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1363 2013-03-20 12:30:32 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1364 2013-03-20 12:30:32 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1365 2013-03-20 12:30:32 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1366 2013-03-20 12:30:33 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1367 2013-03-20 12:30:33 <gbfdshreshre> http://redd.it/1anpfm 50 Bitcoin only$1099.99 last days
1368 2013-03-20 12:31:27 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1369 2013-03-20 12:31:55 miner_2000 has joined
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1375 2013-03-20 12:36:36 <doublec> are there any tools to track the supermajority of version 2 blocks?
1376 2013-03-20 12:37:59 cap2002 has left ()
1377 2013-03-20 12:38:00 cap2002 has joined
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1379 2013-03-20 12:39:43 <gavinandresen> doublec: simple shell commands to the RPC can do it; something like for i in {225900..226900}; do ./bitcoind getblock $(./bitcoind getblockhash $i); done | grep height | sort | uniq -c
1380 2013-03-20 12:40:01 i2pRelay has joined
1381 2013-03-20 12:40:07 <TD> http://blockorigin.pfoe.be/blocklist.php
1382 2013-03-20 12:40:12 <TD> doublec: that site shows the percentages
1383 2013-03-20 12:40:46 <doublec> TD: that site was broken for about 1500 blocks
1384 2013-03-20 12:40:54 <doublec> TD: the site maintainer is currently fixing it
1385 2013-03-20 12:41:11 <doublec> my node logs are showing version 1 blocks being rejected due to a supermajority
1386 2013-03-20 12:41:42 <doublec> I'm trying to see if it's my node that is broken, or there is in fact a majority
1387 2013-03-20 12:44:26 <doublec> I got rjected about 226824
1388 2013-03-20 12:44:29 davout has joined
1389 2013-03-20 12:45:12 <doublec> sorry, 226845
1390 2013-03-20 12:46:35 * doublec explores with gavinandresen's shell script
1391 2013-03-20 12:46:49 <gavinandresen> grep for version, not height....
1392 2013-03-20 12:47:32 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1393 2013-03-20 12:48:01 i2pRelay has joined
1394 2013-03-20 12:50:07 <ShapeShifter499> hi again
1395 2013-03-20 12:50:30 <doublec> gavinandresen: wasn't is supposed to be 95%
1396 2013-03-20 12:50:37 <doublec> gavinandresen: in the code I see "if 750 of the last 1,000 blocks are version 2 or greater"
1397 2013-03-20 12:50:49 <gavinandresen> that's for rejecting invalid block.version=2 blocks
1398 2013-03-20 12:50:50 <doublec> which we're at
1399 2013-03-20 12:50:54 <doublec> ah ok
1400 2013-03-20 12:50:58 <doublec> that's what I'm hitting
1401 2013-03-20 12:50:59 <doublec> doh
1402 2013-03-20 12:51:09 <ShapeShifter499> freaking how big is the bitcoin cache?  I started downloading yesterday at 1 pm and its 5:30 am the next day
1403 2013-03-20 12:51:16 <ShapeShifter499> lol still downloading
1404 2013-03-20 12:51:17 <gavinandresen> oh, did you start producing block.version=2 blocks but put the wrong thing in the coinbase?
1405 2013-03-20 12:51:28 <doublec> gavinandresen: yes, I noticed earlier today and was in the midst of fixing it
1406 2013-03-20 12:51:45 <doublec> gavinandresen: I thought I had a bit of time but apparently not :)
1407 2013-03-20 12:52:11 <ShapeShifter499> its at 99.01 percent lol
1408 2013-03-20 12:52:45 <ShapeShifter499> can I transfer this data to another computer without needing to re-download the entire thing?
1409 2013-03-20 12:52:49 CodesInChaos has joined
1410 2013-03-20 12:53:17 <ShapeShifter499> I have no idea where it would be located, using bitcoin-qt on ubuntu 12.10
1411 2013-03-20 12:53:43 <kinlo> mmmmz
1412 2013-03-20 12:53:52 <gavinandresen> ShapeShifter499: sure, although somebody reported incompatibilities between Windows and Linux.  ~/.bitcoin/blocks/ and ~/.bitcoin/chainstate/
1413 2013-03-20 12:53:54 <kinlo> so, blockexplorer broke down a bit :/
1414 2013-03-20 12:54:25 <kinlo> who maintains blockexplorer.com again?
1415 2013-03-20 12:55:05 <ShapeShifter499> gavinandresen, super, I run ubuntu (execpt the old powerbook g4 I have) on every comp I have
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1419 2013-03-20 12:56:30 <jouke> kinlo: someone new afaik
1420 2013-03-20 12:56:39 <ShapeShifter499> gavinandresen, thank your for the info
1421 2013-03-20 12:56:42 <ShapeShifter499> *you
1422 2013-03-20 12:57:04 <kinlo> right, theymos, and he's not new :)
1423 2013-03-20 12:57:20 Descry has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1424 2013-03-20 12:58:39 <Graet> i heard theymos sold it
1425 2013-03-20 12:59:05 <kinlo> is that true/
1426 2013-03-20 12:59:08 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1427 2013-03-20 12:59:21 <kinlo> if so, why is the text still saying "Tell me (theymos) if you find any bugs. " ?
1428 2013-03-20 12:59:39 jMyles has joined
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1430 2013-03-20 13:00:22 <doublec> kinlo: yes, theymos said he sold it
1431 2013-03-20 13:00:26 <doublec> kinlo: to http://liraz.org/
1432 2013-03-20 13:01:13 <kinlo> oh
1433 2013-03-20 13:01:35 <kinlo> in that case I guess I'll have to rewrite blockorigin to just use a real bitcoin client instead of scraping everything
1434 2013-03-20 13:01:44 <kinlo> don't feel like rewriting it to use a new layout
1435 2013-03-20 13:02:09 <kinlo> that is - if the new owner decides to rewrite the whole thing
1436 2013-03-20 13:02:49 grau has joined
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1438 2013-03-20 13:04:08 i2pRelay has joined
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1441 2013-03-20 13:07:12 <jouke> kinlo: what does blockorigin do?
1442 2013-03-20 13:07:25 <kinlo> go have a look...
1443 2013-03-20 13:07:30 <kinlo> http://blockorigin.pfoe.be
1444 2013-03-20 13:07:33 <TD> another happy  user of the android app :)
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1456 2013-03-20 13:20:57 <kinlo> ok, blockexplorer is back uptodate, still 168 v1 blocks, so we're still not close to v2 only blocks
1457 2013-03-20 13:21:01 <kinlo> eh
1458 2013-03-20 13:21:04 <kinlo> blockorigin :p
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1463 2013-03-20 13:27:01 <peawormsworth> kinlo: i notice on ur site that block 226871 226872 are both from ozcoin and are 15 seconds apart.
1464 2013-03-20 13:27:08 <peawormsworth> maybe this means nothing.
1465 2013-03-20 13:27:33 <Graet> it means ozcoin was lacky
1466 2013-03-20 13:27:37 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1467 2013-03-20 13:27:42 <Graet> lucky*
1468 2013-03-20 13:27:45 <kinlo> lucky you mean
1469 2013-03-20 13:27:46 <kinlo> heh
1470 2013-03-20 13:27:56 <Graet> sigh, too little sleep :/
1471 2013-03-20 13:27:59 <kinlo> peawormsworth: yes that happens that some pools find 2 sequential blocks :)
1472 2013-03-20 13:28:09 i2pRelay has joined
1473 2013-03-20 13:28:10 <flyingkiwiguy> phantomcircuit: pm?
1474 2013-03-20 13:28:10 <peawormsworth> but I was wondering if someone finds a block almost immediately after a previous one, could they withold the information and begin working on the next block after this one to get a jump on everyone else?
1475 2013-03-20 13:28:22 <SomeoneWeird> yes
1476 2013-03-20 13:28:27 <peawormsworth> ah ok.
1477 2013-03-20 13:28:45 <gavinandresen> sure, but every second they withhold it they risk somebody else finding a block and they lose it
1478 2013-03-20 13:28:57 <Graet> yep
1479 2013-03-20 13:29:07 <Graet> gavinandresen, types quicker than me :)
1480 2013-03-20 13:29:08 <gavinandresen> withholding blocks is always a losing strategy
1481 2013-03-20 13:29:20 zveda has joined
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1485 2013-03-20 13:29:22 <peawormsworth> right, but if its all statistics... then doing that sometimes may be more beneficial to allow some risk to occur in order to gain an advantage on the next.
1486 2013-03-20 13:29:29 <gavinandresen> no
1487 2013-03-20 13:29:57 <sipa> peawormsworth: it is beneficial as soon as you have >50% of the hash power
1488 2013-03-20 13:30:14 <sipa> or more generally, as soon as you're in the largest group of colluding miners
1489 2013-03-20 13:30:53 <Diablo-D3> er
1490 2013-03-20 13:30:53 * gavinandresen chuckles at the idea of 'colluding miners' ....
1491 2013-03-20 13:30:56 <Diablo-D3> man I hate python
1492 2013-03-20 13:31:03 Xeno-Genesis has joined
1493 2013-03-20 13:31:12 <Diablo-D3> and I cant find this in the python docs
1494 2013-03-20 13:31:16 <Diablo-D3> how do I run a command with python
1495 2013-03-20 13:31:33 <sipa> gavinandresen: colliding miners would be more funny!
1496 2013-03-20 13:31:38 agricocb has joined
1497 2013-03-20 13:31:46 <gavinandresen> colliding miners happens all the time!
1498 2013-03-20 13:32:03 <peawormsworth> is the percent of found blocks a rough estimate of hashing power or is it not correlated that way?
1499 2013-03-20 13:32:32 <valparaiso> Diablo-D3: use the REPL 'python -i '
1500 2013-03-20 13:32:37 alphaguru has joined
1501 2013-03-20 13:33:00 <Diablo-D3> no I mean like perl's system
1502 2013-03-20 13:33:13 <peawormsworth> "colliding miners" i think u mean 2 miners find a new block at roughly the same time. I suppose there is some dispute resolution process i have not read yet.
1503 2013-03-20 13:33:15 <valparaiso> ah ok, srry
1504 2013-03-20 13:33:23 joey_meyer has joined
1505 2013-03-20 13:33:47 <sipa> peawormsworth: i was more thinking of two physical FPGA's crashing into eachother :)
1506 2013-03-20 13:33:50 <gavinandresen> peawormsworth: yes, they get on the phone and call me, then we sit down and figure out who deserves the block more….
1507 2013-03-20 13:33:56 <valparaiso> Diablo-D3 : something like
1508 2013-03-20 13:33:58 <valparaiso> import os
1509 2013-03-20 13:33:58 <valparaiso> cmd = 'ls -l /usr/bin'
1510 2013-03-20 13:33:58 <valparaiso> os.system(cmd)
1511 2013-03-20 13:34:24 _pr has joined
1512 2013-03-20 13:34:27 <Diablo-D3> thanks
1513 2013-03-20 13:34:35 <gavinandresen> usually I make them send a picture, and I pick the more attractive miner.
1514 2013-03-20 13:34:54 <sipa> gavinandresen: so you have tons of pics of hot miners? :o
1515 2013-03-20 13:35:02 <gavinandresen> hot and sweaty
1516 2013-03-20 13:35:11 <peawormsworth> but when u meet them they look nothing like the pic.
1517 2013-03-20 13:35:25 <giuseppe_> If the nonce is 32 bit (4GHashes possible), and the result hash (with 0 bits at the beginning) is 256bit, how can a miner be sure to find the proof-of-work of a given block by trying just 4GHashes?
1518 2013-03-20 13:35:41 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1519 2013-03-20 13:36:14 i2pRelay has joined
1520 2013-03-20 13:36:19 <sipa> giuseppe_: they also vary the extranonce in the coinbase transaction
1521 2013-03-20 13:36:21 <Diablo-D3> giuseppe_: it isnt.
1522 2013-03-20 13:36:47 helo has joined
1523 2013-03-20 13:37:15 <gavinandresen> peawormsworth: seriously, if you want a crash course in how it all works I think this podcast is pretty good: http://omegataupodcast.net/2011/03/59-bitcoin-a-digital-decentralized-currency/
1524 2013-03-20 13:37:25 [\\\] has joined
1525 2013-03-20 13:37:52 <peawormsworth> thx. I am also wondering if there is a public log of this channel? Maybe I can grep for some interesting things.
1526 2013-03-20 13:39:07 <gavinandresen> http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/
1527 2013-03-20 13:39:14 <peawormsworth> thx
1528 2013-03-20 13:39:52 Michail1 is now known as Michail1_
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1535 2013-03-20 13:46:34 <giuseppe_> sipa: is it always possible to find the proof of work for a given block by varying extranonce?
1536 2013-03-20 13:46:55 <sipa> giuseppe_: in theory, no; in practice: absolutely
1537 2013-03-20 13:47:01 <giuseppe_> :)
1538 2013-03-20 13:47:15 <giuseppe_> how is the extranonce long (in bit) ?
1539 2013-03-20 13:47:31 <lianj> giuseppe_: also, if new txs come in, you add them to your block that resutls in a new block with new merkel_root and timestamp
1540 2013-03-20 13:47:32 <sipa> up to 800
1541 2013-03-20 13:47:45 <lianj> thats more seed than just the extra nounce
1542 2013-03-20 13:48:31 sebuba has joined
1543 2013-03-20 13:48:53 zz_qwertyoruiop is now known as qwertyoruiop
1544 2013-03-20 13:49:33 <giuseppe_> lianj: yes, that's right! You always add transactions to the block, because it's impossible to cover the whole nonce space, so modifying the block is the same as continuing with the same block.
1545 2013-03-20 13:49:41 <giuseppe_> Am i right?
1546 2013-03-20 13:49:51 <sipa> there is no such thing as 'continuing'
1547 2013-03-20 13:49:58 Michail1_ is now known as Michail1
1548 2013-03-20 13:50:02 <giuseppe_> sipa: up to 800bit, so it's variable!
1549 2013-03-20 13:50:05 <sipa> every hash is an independent attempt
1550 2013-03-20 13:50:11 <sipa> giuseppe_: yes, 2 to 100 bytes
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1556 2013-03-20 13:53:45 <giuseppe_> the extranonce is in the coinbase, that is in the place of a script in the input of the generation-transaction.
1557 2013-03-20 13:54:08 <sipa> correct
1558 2013-03-20 13:54:23 <giuseppe_> [transaction [input [coinbase] ] ]
1559 2013-03-20 13:55:26 Darkneo has joined
1560 2013-03-20 13:56:38 reizuki__ has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1561 2013-03-20 13:58:13 banghouse has joined
1562 2013-03-20 13:59:24 <peawormsworth> gavinandresen: I respect the right to privacy. But I am curious... twitter claims u r in "Amherst, MA". Is that true. And Im asking because I would like to hear u speak publicly in person some time.
1563 2013-03-20 13:59:46 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1564 2013-03-20 13:59:51 grau has joined
1565 2013-03-20 13:59:56 <gavinandresen> peawormsworth: I'll be speaking here: http://www.bitcoin2013.com/
1566 2013-03-20 14:00:17 i2pRelay has joined
1567 2013-03-20 14:00:26 <gavinandresen> peawormsworth: and yes, I live in Amherst.  I'm easy to find, I'm a member of Amherst Town Meeting, and all town meeting members addresses are find-able....
1568 2013-03-20 14:00:45 <gavinandresen> please don't start stalking me and make me move, though.
1569 2013-03-20 14:01:04 <peawormsworth> ok thx. I somehow believed u were from canada. which happens to be my fav country. US is ok too i guess.
1570 2013-03-20 14:01:21 <jgarzik> Gavin looks Canadian
1571 2013-03-20 14:01:22 * jgarzik runs
1572 2013-03-20 14:01:33 <gavinandresen> I do love maple syrup
1573 2013-03-20 14:01:39 <giuseppe_> Can you help me to formulate a sentence for the 'Transaction' wiki page? "The extranonce contributes to enlarge the domain for the proof of work function: nonce (4byte) + extranonce (0 to 100bytes) "
1574 2013-03-20 14:01:47 <peawormsworth> na. ur pic is not "hot and sweaty" enough.
1575 2013-03-20 14:02:02 <sipa> giuseppe_: the domain for the proof of work is the entire block
1576 2013-03-20 14:02:21 <sipa> giuseppe_: it's just that some fields (nonce, extranonce, timestamp) are modified more easily by miners
1577 2013-03-20 14:02:43 <sipa> giuseppe_: and the extranonce is at least 2 bytes long
1578 2013-03-20 14:02:54 <sipa> giuseppe_: since BIP34, there are extra restrictions on it
1579 2013-03-20 14:04:00 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1580 2013-03-20 14:07:11 <peawormsworth> I do not see Max Keiser in the list of panellist speakers. ;-(
1581 2013-03-20 14:07:44 <peawormsworth> ...and he's the alex jones of bitcoin (imo)
1582 2013-03-20 14:07:48 <Diablo-D3> peawormsworth: hes too busy being rich
1583 2013-03-20 14:07:49 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1584 2013-03-20 14:08:07 <Diablo-D3> Im thinking once I become amazingly rich
1585 2013-03-20 14:08:18 <Diablo-D3> Im going to build a warehouse and fill it with copper nuggets
1586 2013-03-20 14:08:22 i2pRelay has joined
1587 2013-03-20 14:09:57 Detritus has joined
1588 2013-03-20 14:11:19 <sivu> why copper
1589 2013-03-20 14:12:04 <D34TH> Diablo-D3: I'd go with printer ink, it is a morer stable market.
1590 2013-03-20 14:15:16 <flyingkiwiguy> Diablo-D3: China's beaten you to it. And copper is about to crash in price.
1591 2013-03-20 14:15:34 <sivu> price crash doesnt matter if youre amazingly rich
1592 2013-03-20 14:15:47 <peawormsworth> canada just abolished the penny. Maybe our gov is melting them and flooding the markets.
1593 2013-03-20 14:15:49 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1594 2013-03-20 14:15:56 giuseppe_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1595 2013-03-20 14:16:22 i2pRelay has joined
1596 2013-03-20 14:17:23 <flyingkiwiguy> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_was_the_last_year_Canadian_pennies_were_made_of_copper
1597 2013-03-20 14:17:37 swappermall has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1598 2013-03-20 14:17:53 <D34TH> didnt australia make their one and two cent coins into medals for the olympics?
1599 2013-03-20 14:18:28 Xeno-Genesis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1600 2013-03-20 14:18:43 <peawormsworth> I did notice that pennies tasted different after 1996.
1601 2013-03-20 14:18:47 * flyingkiwiguy has most of his assets in dividend paying stocks, gold, silver
1602 2013-03-20 14:19:40 Xeno-Genesis has joined
1603 2013-03-20 14:20:18 <peawormsworth> our cash is plastic now too. which is claimed to last longer... however in my personal crumple test, the US paper bill looked better afterwords.
1604 2013-03-20 14:21:02 <flyingkiwiguy> there is some intrinsic value in $1 - the BTU from burning it
1605 2013-03-20 14:21:06 pete91 has joined
1606 2013-03-20 14:21:34 saulimus has quit (Quit: saulimus)
1607 2013-03-20 14:21:37 Ashaman has joined
1608 2013-03-20 14:22:13 <peawormsworth> that is how Diablo-D3 heats his warehouse full of nuggets.
1609 2013-03-20 14:23:19 joe_k has joined
1610 2013-03-20 14:23:35 maximi89 has joined
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1612 2013-03-20 14:24:23 i2pRelay has joined
1613 2013-03-20 14:24:45 <D34TH> seems like i2pRelay has network trouble
1614 2013-03-20 14:26:36 _pr has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1615 2013-03-20 14:27:32 IRCcharity has joined
1616 2013-03-20 14:27:57 <peawormsworth> D34TH: I thought it was a joke about Australian Olympic medals, but wikipedia repeats this joke as fact.
1617 2013-03-20 14:27:57 <IRCcharity> Donate your Bitcoins here: 15gZHycFraZh4pZY5Ln4LMrdbYhQsvtecV
1618 2013-03-20 14:28:38 <D34TH> peawormsworth: i heard it, thought the same. suppose its a good use for the extra resources
1619 2013-03-20 14:29:23 <peawormsworth> D34TH: yes, but on another level it implies something cheap about bronze metals. Worthless 3rd placers.
1620 2013-03-20 14:29:51 <jgarzik> peawormsworth: Please try to stay on-topic
1621 2013-03-20 14:30:20 <jgarzik> idle chatter -> #bitcoin
1622 2013-03-20 14:30:42 IRCcharity has joined
1623 2013-03-20 14:30:59 <SomeoneWeird> #bitcoin-offtopic
1624 2013-03-20 14:31:02 <D34TH> jgarzik: sorry that was my fault
1625 2013-03-20 14:31:54 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1629 2013-03-20 14:34:47 _pr has joined
1630 2013-03-20 14:36:06 <giuseppe_> sipa: i'm back, thx!
1631 2013-03-20 14:37:36 onthestairs has joined
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1634 2013-03-20 14:40:25 i2pRelay has joined
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1637 2013-03-20 14:41:19 ash__ has quit (Client Quit)
1638 2013-03-20 14:41:37 unclemantis has joined
1639 2013-03-20 14:42:18 <unclemantis> what is the recommended bitcoin transaction fee taking into concideration current Satoshi Dice traffic
1640 2013-03-20 14:42:42 <kermit_> sipa, last time I progged c (unix) a long time agao
1641 2013-03-20 14:42:44 <Diablo-D3> 0.0005
1642 2013-03-20 14:42:48 <kermit_> what kidn of IDE are you using?
1643 2013-03-20 14:42:58 <Diablo-D3> actually, 0.001 now I think
1644 2013-03-20 14:43:16 <kermit_> satoshidice is making bitcoin expensive for everyone
1645 2013-03-20 14:43:19 ashod has joined
1646 2013-03-20 14:43:27 <unclemantis> so 0.001 to be safe?
1647 2013-03-20 14:43:28 <MC-Droid> hmm sometimes i cannot get android wallet to gtfo
1648 2013-03-20 14:43:30 paraipan has joined
1649 2013-03-20 14:44:50 <Diablo-D3> unclemantis: yeah
1650 2013-03-20 14:45:13 ashod has left ()
1651 2013-03-20 14:45:15 <unclemantis> at the current rate... about $0.05? wow
1652 2013-03-20 14:45:29 <unclemantis> still cheaper than credit cards :)
1653 2013-03-20 14:45:40 <Diablo-D3> yeah really
1654 2013-03-20 14:45:57 ashod has joined
1655 2013-03-20 14:46:10 <kermit_> credit cards where never intended to be used over the internet
1656 2013-03-20 14:46:11 <ashod> hello
1657 2013-03-20 14:46:32 <Diablo-D3> kermit_:credit cards were never meant to be used for 30 years.
1658 2013-03-20 14:46:34 <Diablo-D3> hell, 40
1659 2013-03-20 14:46:40 <kermit_> lol
1660 2013-03-20 14:46:41 <Diablo-D3> the current generation of cards were all invented in the 70s
1661 2013-03-20 14:46:50 <Diablo-D3> I mean, fuck, the ACH system? 70s.
1662 2013-03-20 14:46:59 <Diablo-D3> banking technology halted for 40 years.
1663 2013-03-20 14:47:09 <kermit_> well, we all had telecom monopolies in the 70; in most part of the world
1664 2013-03-20 14:47:10 <Diablo-D3> how the fuck does shit like this even happen
1665 2013-03-20 14:47:30 <kermit_> calling transatlantic was 4 bucks a minute back then
1666 2013-03-20 14:47:38 <kermit_> now its 0.001 ct?
1667 2013-03-20 14:47:47 <Diablo-D3> well
1668 2013-03-20 14:47:50 <Diablo-D3> its really 0 cents.
1669 2013-03-20 14:47:52 _pr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1670 2013-03-20 14:47:56 <Diablo-D3> because time is a fictional cost
1671 2013-03-20 14:47:56 <kermit_> wire transfer, lets not even talk about it
1672 2013-03-20 14:47:57 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1673 2013-03-20 14:48:05 <unclemantis> bitcoin is turning the world into a vending machine :)
1674 2013-03-20 14:48:07 <Diablo-D3> the internet replaced the phone system completely
1675 2013-03-20 14:48:13 <kermit_> yeah state monopolies makes things cheaper right?
1676 2013-03-20 14:48:15 <Diablo-D3> the phone companies refused to just die.
1677 2013-03-20 14:48:19 <kermit_> oh wait......
1678 2013-03-20 14:48:27 i2pRelay has joined
1679 2013-03-20 14:49:34 <kermit_> we need a cheap low-orbit sattelite network (Muntz is working on tthat!)
1680 2013-03-20 14:49:41 <Diablo-D3> incoming payment from the asicminer mothership
1681 2013-03-20 14:49:42 joe_k1 has joined
1682 2013-03-20 14:50:11 asjj has joined
1683 2013-03-20 14:50:24 <kermit_> asicminers will be dead in 2014 when Intel comes with the new chip
1684 2013-03-20 14:50:49 <kermit_> every opcode will have its own vector equiv
1685 2013-03-20 14:51:09 <kermit_> hey listen
1686 2013-03-20 14:51:28 <kermit_> what IDE do you guys use for c development in unix?
1687 2013-03-20 14:51:29 giuseppe_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1688 2013-03-20 14:51:40 <Diablo-D3> vim
1689 2013-03-20 14:51:43 <kermit_> *dont say vim*
1690 2013-03-20 14:51:44 <sipa> edlin
1691 2013-03-20 14:51:46 <kermit_> aaaaah
1692 2013-03-20 14:51:48 <unclemantis> won't mining be finished by the end of this year?
1693 2013-03-20 14:51:49 <IRCcharity> @kermit: good question
1694 2013-03-20 14:52:02 <sipa> unclemantis: how so?
1695 2013-03-20 14:52:03 <Diablo-D3> kermit_: Ive got my vim loaded up with so much shit, it beats any "real" ide in functionality
1696 2013-03-20 14:52:06 joe_k has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1697 2013-03-20 14:52:09 <unclemantis> i am asking, not telling
1698 2013-03-20 14:52:22 <sipa> how could mining be 'finished' ?
1699 2013-03-20 14:52:36 <unclemantis> I know there is a network limit of X amount of bitcoins
1700 2013-03-20 14:52:36 <asjj> wwww
1701 2013-03-20 14:52:41 <kermit_> Diablo-D3:  what kind of shit are you talking about?
1702 2013-03-20 14:52:43 asjj has quit (Client Quit)
1703 2013-03-20 14:53:04 <kermit_> i mean,  (quoting you with the shit word)
1704 2013-03-20 14:53:09 <sipa> unclemantis: every block has a subsidy of 25 BTC right now
1705 2013-03-20 14:53:10 <unclemantis> and geez wtf is up with the current mtgox rate?
1706 2013-03-20 14:53:12 <Diablo-D3> well, youcompleteme is my favorite one
1707 2013-03-20 14:53:19 <sipa> unclemantis: every 4 years this amount halves
1708 2013-03-20 14:53:20 _pr has joined
1709 2013-03-20 14:53:23 <Diablo-D3> full tab completion in c/c++ apps via libclang
1710 2013-03-20 14:53:26 <kermit_> youcomplete is for VIM?
1711 2013-03-20 14:53:30 lizzin_ has joined
1712 2013-03-20 14:53:34 <sipa> unclemantis: but even without subsidy, we stil have 1 block every 10 minutes
1713 2013-03-20 14:53:36 <Diablo-D3> kermit_: just look at my .vim on github
1714 2013-03-20 14:53:37 CodesInChaos_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1715 2013-03-20 14:53:47 joe_k1 is now known as joe_k
1716 2013-03-20 14:53:49 <kermit_> Cool Diablo-D3
1717 2013-03-20 14:53:54 <kermit_> I certainly will
1718 2013-03-20 14:53:57 giuseppe_ has joined
1719 2013-03-20 14:53:58 lizzin_ is now known as lizzin
1720 2013-03-20 14:53:58 ajaja has joined
1721 2013-03-20 14:54:07 lizzin has quit (Changing host)
1722 2013-03-20 14:54:07 lizzin has joined
1723 2013-03-20 14:54:23 Quazgaa has joined
1724 2013-03-20 14:54:24 <Diablo-D3> https://github.com/Diablo-D3/dot_vim
1725 2013-03-20 14:54:34 <kermit_> https://github.com/vgod/vimrc
1726 2013-03-20 14:54:38 <kermit_> thanks diablo
1727 2013-03-20 14:55:11 ajaja has quit (Client Quit)
1728 2013-03-20 14:55:30 <Diablo-D3> youcompleteme and syntastic are probably the best vim scripts
1729 2013-03-20 14:55:32 <Diablo-D3> and pathogen
1730 2013-03-20 14:55:57 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1731 2013-03-20 14:55:59 Michail1 is now known as Michail1_
1732 2013-03-20 14:56:09 <IRCcharity> Who uses vim? Nano is the best
1733 2013-03-20 14:56:14 Mr_G has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1734 2013-03-20 14:56:30 i2pRelay has joined
1735 2013-03-20 14:56:33 <kermit_> IRCcharity: do u have a link?
1736 2013-03-20 14:56:33 <kermit_> \
1737 2013-03-20 14:57:08 <Diablo-D3> cant tab complete C with nano ;)
1738 2013-03-20 14:57:22 <IRCcharity> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nano_%28text_editor%29
1739 2013-03-20 14:57:24 guidebook has joined
1740 2013-03-20 14:57:25 <ic3> Diablo-D3: I have 450 LOC .vimrc config I thought it's pretty basic, not much shit :)
1741 2013-03-20 14:57:42 <Diablo-D3> ic3: well, I offload a lot of stuff to modules to do for me
1742 2013-03-20 14:57:47 <IRCcharity> I know, the real geeks hate nano but I like it
1743 2013-03-20 14:58:07 <kermit_> will take a looksy IRCcharity , thanks
1744 2013-03-20 14:58:40 <IRCcharity> it's the default command line text editor in ubuntu
1745 2013-03-20 14:59:29 perhapstired has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1746 2013-03-20 14:59:39 <Diablo-D3> you know whats great about having your .vim in git?
1747 2013-03-20 14:59:40 <n1c> You use Nano for dev?
1748 2013-03-20 14:59:42 <Diablo-D3> multiple machines.
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1769 2013-03-20 15:09:04 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
1770 2013-03-20 15:09:18 BTC_Bear is now known as hbrntng!~BTC_Bear@unaffiliated/btc-bear/x-5233302|BTC_Bear
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1773 2013-03-20 15:10:08 <lianj> someone got a working testnet node?
1774 2013-03-20 15:11:01 <jgarzik> hrm
1775 2013-03-20 15:11:17 <jgarzik> where does the Bitcoin Wallet for Android get its blockchain data?
1776 2013-03-20 15:11:44 <IRCcharity> from nowwhere it's not a full-chain client...
1777 2013-03-20 15:11:53 <jgarzik> lianj: testnet has a DNS seed...  run a DNS lookup on testnet-seed.bitcoin.petertodd.org
1778 2013-03-20 15:12:02 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1779 2013-03-20 15:12:08 <lianj> jgarzik: tried, some of the ips, none worked
1780 2013-03-20 15:12:20 <jgarzik> lianj: hrm
1781 2013-03-20 15:12:33 i2pRelay has joined
1782 2013-03-20 15:12:35 <jgarzik> IRCcharity: Then it is impossible to be a wallet, without some derivative of blockchain data
1783 2013-03-20 15:13:04 <IRCcharity> Anyone knowing an advanced bitcoin-stealer or is thedanger not that high?
1784 2013-03-20 15:13:50 Mad7Scientist is now known as PlungeProtection
1785 2013-03-20 15:14:06 <TD> jgarzik: from the peer to peer netowrk?
1786 2013-03-20 15:14:09 <TD> what does the question mean
1787 2013-03-20 15:14:14 <TD> it gets it from the same place everyone else gets it ...
1788 2013-03-20 15:14:18 <gmaxwell> lianj: several connected for me.
1789 2013-03-20 15:14:22 <D34TH> lianj: i have 8 connections
1790 2013-03-20 15:14:23 <gmaxwell> (from the dnsseed)
1791 2013-03-20 15:14:31 <IRCcharity> ;;ticker
1792 2013-03-20 15:14:32 <gribble> BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 59.60000, Best ask: 59.80000, Bid-ask spread: 0.20000, Last trade: 59.60000, 24 hour volume: 90912.83612451, 24 hour low: 53.00000, 24 hour high: 62.00000, 24 hour vwap: 58.09357
1793 2013-03-20 15:15:39 n1c has quit (Quit: Obviously lols.)
1794 2013-03-20 15:16:18 <giuseppe_> If i have my bitcoin-qt client and want to enter the testnet network with my bicoind network with bitcoind -testnet, should i download again the whole blockchain?
1795 2013-03-20 15:16:31 safra has joined
1796 2013-03-20 15:16:58 <helo> guidebook: it will download the testnet blockchain, and put it somewhere that won't effect the mainnet blockchain files
1797 2013-03-20 15:17:06 <jgarzik> TD: is it an SPV client?
1798 2013-03-20 15:17:11 <TD> yes
1799 2013-03-20 15:17:26 <jgarzik> TD: i.e. does Bitcoin Wallet operate fully untrusted (to SPV level), directly accessing P2P network?
1800 2013-03-20 15:17:32 <jgarzik> does it download and scan blocks?
1801 2013-03-20 15:17:34 <TD> it was the first ever app to use bitcoinj
1802 2013-03-20 15:17:36 <BlueMatt> yes
1803 2013-03-20 15:17:39 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: it uses bitcoinj
1804 2013-03-20 15:17:40 <helo> giuseppe_: that was to you ^
1805 2013-03-20 15:17:42 <TD> it uses bloom filtering these days
1806 2013-03-20 15:17:46 <jgarzik> good
1807 2013-03-20 15:17:49 <TD> so it downloads headers + txns + merkle branches
1808 2013-03-20 15:17:49 <TD> why?
1809 2013-03-20 15:17:56 <giuseppe_> thank helo, where is the guidebook
1810 2013-03-20 15:17:57 <giuseppe_> ?
1811 2013-03-20 15:18:03 <jgarzik> TD: so I know whether to recommend it, or not
1812 2013-03-20 15:18:18 <TD> the current version on the play store is a bit slow to sync for the first time
1813 2013-03-20 15:18:21 Ashaman has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1814 2013-03-20 15:18:21 <helo> giuseppe_: that was someone else's nickname that i accidentally addressed instead of you... "gui" vs "giu"
1815 2013-03-20 15:18:22 <TD> https://code.google.com/p/bitcoin-wallet/downloads/detail?name=bitcoin-wallet-2.46-bitcoinj0.8.apk&can=2&q=
1816 2013-03-20 15:18:25 <jgarzik> TD: some wallets are like Electrum, tied to servers not full P2P
1817 2013-03-20 15:18:29 <TD> the preview version there is really, really a lot faster
1818 2013-03-20 15:18:30 <jgarzik> TD: i.e. not 100% untrusted
1819 2013-03-20 15:18:33 <TD> yes, indeed
1820 2013-03-20 15:18:48 <BlueMatt> are there any other spv android apps?
1821 2013-03-20 15:18:51 * jgarzik is reviewing the new Bitcoin.Org webpage
1822 2013-03-20 15:18:52 <TD> nope
1823 2013-03-20 15:18:55 <TD> not that i know of
1824 2013-03-20 15:19:01 <BlueMatt> yea, thats what I thought
1825 2013-03-20 15:19:04 <jgarzik> Bitcoin Wallet for Android is recommended... and wanted to verify that reco
1826 2013-03-20 15:19:05 Scrat_s has joined
1827 2013-03-20 15:19:06 <helo> giuseppe_: using -tesnet will play nice with your mainnet files
1828 2013-03-20 15:19:08 <TD> a colleague came past today. he wanted to get into bitcoin
1829 2013-03-20 15:19:17 Scrat has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1830 2013-03-20 15:19:18 <BlueMatt> nice
1831 2013-03-20 15:19:18 <TD> i installed the preview android app for him and he said it was "life changing", lol
1832 2013-03-20 15:19:20 <jgarzik> Bitcoin Wallet for Android will basically be the Official Bitcoin Wallet
1833 2013-03-20 15:19:23 <jgarzik> after the website updates
1834 2013-03-20 15:19:24 Scrat_s is now known as Scrat
1835 2013-03-20 15:19:24 <jgarzik> IMNSHO
1836 2013-03-20 15:19:34 <TD> jgarzik: well, that's why it's got such a generic name. it was always our hope/goal :)
1837 2013-03-20 15:19:48 <TD> it's quite a nice app. not perfect. the icons could use a tweak. it's a bit nerdy. but it's not bad ....
1838 2013-03-20 15:19:56 <TD> bitcoin is itself a bit nerdy :)
1839 2013-03-20 15:19:56 <giuseppe_> helo: ok, but is there another bitcoinf folder for testnet?
1840 2013-03-20 15:20:02 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1841 2013-03-20 15:20:03 <jgarzik> TD: how long until the preview becomes official version?  are you the maintainer of the app, within Google app store (Play)?
1842 2013-03-20 15:20:08 <BlueMatt> TD: understatement much?
1843 2013-03-20 15:20:11 <helo> giuseppe_: yeah, it will probably be ~/.bitcoin/testnet3/
1844 2013-03-20 15:20:13 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: thats andreas
1845 2013-03-20 15:20:13 <jgarzik> P.S. Play is a stupid name for an app store.  :)
1846 2013-03-20 15:20:26 CodesInChaos has joined
1847 2013-03-20 15:20:27 <BlueMatt> (but hes very active in bitcoinj too)
1848 2013-03-20 15:20:31 <helo> Bitcoin Wallet is the only android app i've given a 5-star review
1849 2013-03-20 15:20:31 i2pRelay has joined
1850 2013-03-20 15:20:34 <TD> jgarzik: Goonie is the maintainer. he usually releases new versions of the Android app in line with bitcoinj releases.
1851 2013-03-20 15:20:43 <TD> so it depends when i do bcj 0.8 -  I was discussing it with him earlier today
1852 2013-03-20 15:20:48 <jgarzik> ok
1853 2013-03-20 15:20:52 <TD> there are a couple more bugfixes to do
1854 2013-03-20 15:20:53 <giuseppe_> .bitcoin is the folder with blocks, chainstate and so on?
1855 2013-03-20 15:21:02 <jgarzik> TD: probably needs to be pretty soon, with all the new attention
1856 2013-03-20 15:21:03 <TD> then i think we'll get it out there. it's such a big step up in performance that i want to get it released ASAP
1857 2013-03-20 15:21:07 <jgarzik> yep
1858 2013-03-20 15:21:12 <TD> yes i know :( working on it ....
1859 2013-03-20 15:21:28 <TD> bcj 0.8 will be the first SPV client ever that is competitive with electrum style apps for speed
1860 2013-03-20 15:21:43 <TD> about the only place it's slower, is if you import a key that was created a long time ago and have to rescan the chain
1861 2013-03-20 15:21:46 <TD> but that's not normal usage
1862 2013-03-20 15:21:50 <giuseppe_> helo: testnet3 should contain analogous chainstate, database and
1863 2013-03-20 15:21:51 <helo> it is tremendous that a mobile phone app can so easily connect to the actual bitcoin network
1864 2013-03-20 15:21:58 <giuseppe_> block folder
1865 2013-03-20 15:22:01 <IRCcharity> Donate your Bitcoins here: 15gZHycFraZh4pZY5Ln4LMrdbYhQsvtecV
1866 2013-03-20 15:22:04 <TD> helo: yes! when i started, people said it was impossible and would never work
1867 2013-03-20 15:22:09 <TD> it took 2+ years but we're basically there
1868 2013-03-20 15:22:11 <jgarzik> IRCcharity: stop that, or you will be banned
1869 2013-03-20 15:22:48 <jgarzik> helo: +1000
1870 2013-03-20 15:23:10 <jgarzik> petertodd: scroll up a bit... it sounds like your DNS seed isn't returning fresh info?
1871 2013-03-20 15:23:23 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: wfm
1872 2013-03-20 15:23:24 <giuseppe_> helo: does the app maintain just block headers?
1873 2013-03-20 15:23:29 <BlueMatt> petertodd: ^
1874 2013-03-20 15:23:29 <D34TH> jgarzik: pulled up just fine for me
1875 2013-03-20 15:23:35 <helo> giuseppe_: Bitcoin Wallet for android does, yes
1876 2013-03-20 15:23:45 <jgarzik> BlueMatt, D34TH: see lianj's comments
1877 2013-03-20 15:23:50 <giuseppe_> and is chainstate stored?
1878 2013-03-20 15:23:56 <lianj> meh, the testnet dns seed somehow is not working for me. can someone just send me one ip that works? to bootstrap more addrs then
1879 2013-03-20 15:23:58 Michail1_ is now known as Michail1
1880 2013-03-20 15:24:24 <BlueMatt> lianj: bitcoin-seednode.bluematt.me
1881 2013-03-20 15:24:44 <helo> giuseppe_: i don't know what exactly chainstate is :/
1882 2013-03-20 15:24:49 rdymac has joined
1883 2013-03-20 15:25:06 <jgarzik> lianj: http://pastebin.com/kVThy2ny
1884 2013-03-20 15:25:16 <giuseppe_> helo: chainstate is a database (leveldb) with all transactions not already spent.
1885 2013-03-20 15:25:22 <TD> no it doesn't do that. it's spv
1886 2013-03-20 15:25:27 <giuseppe_> helo: boudary transactions
1887 2013-03-20 15:25:39 <lianj> BlueMatt: jgarzik: merci! also i just noticed it was my error. did -connect ip and not -connect=ip
1888 2013-03-20 15:25:43 <helo> ahh utxo
1889 2013-03-20 15:26:03 <lianj> would be nice if bitcoind says invalid argument instead of could not connect server on -connect ip
1890 2013-03-20 15:26:06 <D34TH> lianj: try -addnode=ip
1891 2013-03-20 15:26:31 <lianj> ok
1892 2013-03-20 15:26:41 PlungeProtection is now known as Mad7Scientist
1893 2013-03-20 15:26:51 <sipa> helo: chainstate = UTXO set
1894 2013-03-20 15:27:12 <sipa> giuseppe_: as SPV means no transaction validation, SPV nodes do not have an UTXO set/chainstate
1895 2013-03-20 15:28:03 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1896 2013-03-20 15:28:34 i2pRelay has joined
1897 2013-03-20 15:29:03 <jgarzik> i2pRelay: fix your shit
1898 2013-03-20 15:29:04 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1899 2013-03-20 15:29:08 * jgarzik vents, against a robot
1900 2013-03-20 15:29:53 rdymac has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1901 2013-03-20 15:30:33 johnsoft1 has joined
1902 2013-03-20 15:30:53 BTCabc has joined
1903 2013-03-20 15:30:55 <SomeoneWeird> jgarzik, lol
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1913 2013-03-20 15:38:35 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: i2pRelay joins and parts as people join and leave the i2p channel
1914 2013-03-20 15:38:37 <Diablo-D3> I think
1915 2013-03-20 15:38:47 <Diablo-D3> wait, thats not parting
1916 2013-03-20 15:38:54 <Diablo-D3> HA HA its broken
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1934 2013-03-20 15:52:36 i2pRelay has joined
1935 2013-03-20 15:53:39 <giuseppe_> what's the block chain size in testnet? (mainnet=~7Gb)
1936 2013-03-20 15:55:25 <lianj> giuseppe_: 45mb
1937 2013-03-20 15:55:39 <giuseppe_> Oh what a good news!!
1938 2013-03-20 15:55:47 <giuseppe_> :)
1939 2013-03-20 15:55:48 <lianj> dont spam it :P
1940 2013-03-20 15:55:58 <giuseppe_> don't worry!
1941 2013-03-20 15:57:45 havibli has joined
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1943 2013-03-20 15:58:21 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
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1950 2013-03-20 16:05:21 <giuseppe_> Are testnet bitcoins free?
1951 2013-03-20 16:05:35 <helo> effectively
1952 2013-03-20 16:06:51 <giuseppe_> probabily it's very simple to generate them...
1953 2013-03-20 16:06:58 <helo> if you ask nicely in here, someone will probably give you some. or you can mine your own pretty quickly with ./bitcoind -testnet -gen=1
1954 2013-03-20 16:07:49 <giuseppe_> Am i nice?
1955 2013-03-20 16:07:50 johnDoe9 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1956 2013-03-20 16:08:08 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1957 2013-03-20 16:08:10 <giuseppe_> I'll try to generate them once sync in the testnet!! :)
1958 2013-03-20 16:08:13 <ashod> if run bitcoin with -txindex=1 , i understand i need to also add -reindex=1 ,  once the rebuilding completes, do i then need to restart the server, but this time with -reindex=1 ommited ?
1959 2013-03-20 16:08:13 <helo> that has yet to be determined :)
1960 2013-03-20 16:08:42 i2pRelay has joined
1961 2013-03-20 16:08:58 <gmaxwell> ashod: yes.
1962 2013-03-20 16:09:14 <gmaxwell> you can put txindex=1 in the config file, then start once with reindex on the commandline.
1963 2013-03-20 16:11:02 <petertodd> lianj,jgarzik,BlueMatt: just checked, testnet seed looks ok to me, maybe there were a bunch of nodes that went offline suddenly? I see 36 testnet nodes known to the seed, that's higher than average
1964 2013-03-20 16:11:22 <ashod> and then i stop the server , remove the reindex=1 and restart with the txindex=1 intact
1965 2013-03-20 16:11:49 <petertodd> Also, looks like it's doing an average of about 10K lookups per day; 8/minute
1966 2013-03-20 16:12:15 john5223 has joined
1967 2013-03-20 16:13:06 <ashod> in what situations would i need to add -reindex=1 again ?
1968 2013-03-20 16:13:29 <gmaxwell> ashod: if your database has become corrupted or for benchmarking
1969 2013-03-20 16:14:22 <ashod> v 0.8.0.1 is the latest ?
1970 2013-03-20 16:15:46 <sipa> no, 0.8.1
1971 2013-03-20 16:16:10 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1972 2013-03-20 16:16:22 <sipa> ashod: -reindex means "rebuild the database at startup", -txindex means "maintain a txindex"
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1986 2013-03-20 16:24:57 <ashod> is it worth going from 0.8.0 to 0.8.1 - is it stable ?
1987 2013-03-20 16:25:06 pete79 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1989 2013-03-20 16:25:25 register is now known as Guest4609
1990 2013-03-20 16:25:30 <lianj> ashod: switch
1991 2013-03-20 16:25:33 Guest4609 has left ()
1992 2013-03-20 16:25:43 <sipa> ashod: only change in 0.8.1 is temporary compatibility with 0.7 and below
1993 2013-03-20 16:25:46 davout has joined
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1995 2013-03-20 16:25:46 davout has joined
1996 2013-03-20 16:25:58 <sipa> see http://bitcoin.org/may15.html
1997 2013-03-20 16:27:06 hanti is now known as HANTI
1998 2013-03-20 16:28:00 Internet13 has joined
1999 2013-03-20 16:29:04 <ashod> .
2000 2013-03-20 16:29:32 * helo makes a note to synch an 0.7.2 instance up before may15
2001 2013-03-20 16:30:08 davout has quit (Ping timeout: 259 seconds)
2002 2013-03-20 16:31:27 <jgarzik> Is there newbie guide for installing bitcoind?
2003 2013-03-20 16:31:33 * jgarzik doesn't want to write one
2004 2013-03-20 16:31:46 <TD> we don't even have docs for merchants
2005 2013-03-20 16:31:49 <TD> :(
2006 2013-03-20 16:31:53 lodse has joined
2007 2013-03-20 16:32:05 <jgarzik> TD: yeah, lack of a "safe merchant" guide bugs me to no end
2008 2013-03-20 16:32:12 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2009 2013-03-20 16:32:16 <TD> or indeed any merchant :)
2010 2013-03-20 16:32:28 <TD> i think one reason is that right now, there's no way to actually run a merchant safely without a ton of custom development work
2011 2013-03-20 16:32:30 <helo> "tar xvf bitcoin-...; bitcoin-.../bin/32/bitcoind"
2012 2013-03-20 16:32:30 <TD> which is nuts.
2013 2013-03-20 16:32:34 <jgarzik> TD: just simple instructions could bring aboard a bunch of DIY merchants, those capable to handle the tech themselves
2014 2013-03-20 16:32:44 i2pRelay has joined
2015 2013-03-20 16:32:47 <TD> bitcoinj will hopefully make this easier as it provides simple callbacks for things like "your tx was double spent", "your tx reached N confirmations" etc
2016 2013-03-20 16:32:49 <lianj> but which small merchant whats to run a full bitcoind?
2017 2013-03-20 16:32:54 <lianj> s/whats/wants/
2018 2013-03-20 16:32:55 <TD> with bitcoind, you don't even know if a tx was double spent at all
2019 2013-03-20 16:33:05 <TD> except that it never confirms
2020 2013-03-20 16:33:18 <jgarzik> I think all merchants need $SomeSoftware, running behind a largely untouched bitcoind instance (essentially a firewall)
2021 2013-03-20 16:33:20 <sipa> yeah, we really need the negative confirmations thing
2022 2013-03-20 16:33:29 <jgarzik> maybe $SomeSoftware is bitcoinj-based etc.
2023 2013-03-20 16:33:36 <TD> indeed
2024 2013-03-20 16:35:34 <TD> bcj needs a few extra apis actually. like, you need to be able to say only use peer A for downloading the block chain, but you can talk to the network to hear broadcast double spends as well
2025 2013-03-20 16:35:40 <TD> right now it treats all peers equally
2026 2013-03-20 16:36:29 <TD> but then again, double spend/risky tx detection is hardly reliable today. and it won't be a priority for a while.
2027 2013-03-20 16:36:33 <TD> so it makes no odds, in the end
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2031 2013-03-20 16:37:16 <ashod> what
2032 2013-03-20 16:38:04 <alphaguru> can anyone point me to info on the btc api?
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2037 2013-03-20 16:42:38 <giuseppe_> alphaguru: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Original_Bitcoin_client/API_Calls_list
2038 2013-03-20 16:43:19 <jgarzik> TD: years (months?) in the future, I'd hope the market would develop a double-spend notification service
2039 2013-03-20 16:43:24 <jgarzik> and similar features, for merchants
2040 2013-03-20 16:43:54 <TD> well, it should be a part of the protocol. the double spend alerts that elli and her colleagues proposed last year
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2042 2013-03-20 16:45:23 <alphaguru> giuseppe_ thank you
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2046 2013-03-20 16:47:21 <jgarzik> TD: anybody have code for that, or even a paper or proposed design?
2047 2013-03-20 16:47:51 <TD> there was a paper
2048 2013-03-20 16:47:55 <TD> no code, iirc
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2052 2013-03-20 16:48:38 <gmaxwell> TD: how was this different from what was proposed on bitcoin-development?
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2054 2013-03-20 16:48:47 <TD> i don't recall the details.
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2057 2013-03-20 16:49:09 <gmaxwell> darn, well what was proposed on bitcoin development was simple enough.
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2062 2013-03-20 16:51:39 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: just a message that allows carrying a pair of {txin,scriptpubkey}. You accept up to one per txin already in your mempool and relay each one you accept. You generate one when you recieve a conflicting transaction and don't already have one for the conflicted input.
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2066 2013-03-20 16:52:57 <gmaxwell> Or anything basically along those lines that bounds the traffic bloat to ~2x. The design part is straightforward.
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2070 2013-03-20 16:54:17 <gmaxwell> Though I don't know how you prevent such a thing from giving a false sense of security.
2071 2013-03-20 16:54:37 <sipa> gmaxwell: easy; don't expose it :p
2072 2013-03-20 16:55:00 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: can you assign me a BIP number for the chainfork post-mortem informational bip?
2073 2013-03-20 16:55:47 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: BIP 50.
2074 2013-03-20 16:55:57 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: thanks!
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2077 2013-03-20 16:56:32 <kinlo> gmaxwell: are all other bip numbers already assigned?
2078 2013-03-20 16:56:50 i2pRelay has joined
2079 2013-03-20 16:57:20 <gmaxwell> kinlo: I preallocated 40-50 for stratum stuff. There are a couple other numbers where people wrote things at them without getting an actual assignment as far as I can tell.
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2081 2013-03-20 16:57:30 <gmaxwell> (er 40-49)
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2091 2013-03-20 17:07:15 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: BIP 50 should say "pre-0.8" instead of 0.7 in all places. (I'll change it if you like)
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2106 2013-03-20 17:14:32 <devrandom> does anybody know if there's a goxlag chart somewhere?
2107 2013-03-20 17:14:56 * helo considers submitting a funding request next round for a freenode node
2108 2013-03-20 17:15:09 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: thanks, yes please change/tweak as you find nits
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2129 2013-03-20 17:33:36 <gagecolton> devrandom: bitcoinity.org
2130 2013-03-20 17:34:29 <donpdonp> gagecolton: bitcoinity reports goxlag but i dont think they chart the lag
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2140 2013-03-20 17:41:54 <redeper> um
2141 2013-03-20 17:42:00 <redeper> i did sendfrom <account> <addr>
2142 2013-03-20 17:42:12 <redeper> but it used coins in outputs for different addresses to send
2143 2013-03-20 17:43:08 <redeper> i wanted to send the coins from the address i received them
2144 2013-03-20 17:43:11 <Scrat> redeper: accounts are a high level construction, just a bookkeeping mechanism
2145 2013-03-20 17:43:15 <gmaxwell> redeper: Transactions do not have a from address. Sendfrom refers to the local account accounting— which accounts get charged for the transaction.
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2147 2013-03-20 17:44:11 <redeper> why wouldn't bitcoin prefer to use txouts associated with the account?
2148 2013-03-20 17:44:28 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2149 2013-03-20 17:44:57 <gmaxwell> Because txouts are not associated an account.
2150 2013-03-20 17:45:09 i2pRelay has joined
2151 2013-03-20 17:45:14 <redeper> i understand they aren't, but shouldn't they be preferred
2152 2013-03-20 17:45:27 <gmaxwell> Accounts are not multiple wallets, they're just bookkeeping— like tracking charge classes in your checkbook.
2153 2013-03-20 17:45:55 <redeper> ok well
2154 2013-03-20 17:46:10 <redeper> my buddy is pissy for tax purposes, he wants the transactions to be "linear" in the transaction graph
2155 2013-03-20 17:46:29 <redeper> so i've had to deliberately try to send coins from one address to another to satisfy this
2156 2013-03-20 17:46:59 <redeper> linear nature of the transactions is completely unnecessary for tax purposes isn't it?
2157 2013-03-20 17:47:19 <gmaxwell> redeper: Your buddy is in for a world of hurt. Thats not really a reasonable way to use Bitcoin.  And, no— I've never heard someone advance that tax theory.
2158 2013-03-20 17:47:21  has joined
2159 2013-03-20 17:47:25 <redeper> yea
2160 2013-03-20 17:47:29 <gavinandresen> redeper: contrib/spendfrom/spendfrom.py will send coins from a particular address or addresses, if you want to do that
2161 2013-03-20 17:47:31 <redeper> because it's not designed to send transactions in that way
2162 2013-03-20 17:47:39 <redeper> gavinandresen: thx i forgot about those contrib
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2164 2013-03-20 17:48:23 <TD> er, what possible impact could tx graph shape have on tax?!
2165 2013-03-20 17:48:47 <redeper> yea that's what i told him but he wanted it this way to simplify records in the event of an audit
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2167 2013-03-20 17:49:39 <gmaxwell> redeper: the wallet's transaction history will happily tell you all your transactions.
2168 2013-03-20 17:49:44 <redeper> yep
2169 2013-03-20 17:50:02 * aethero is looking for a math major with experience in statistical analysis. Will pay Bitcoin for your skills
2170 2013-03-20 17:50:04 <gmaxwell> what he's doing is suggesting tracking the serial numbers of the dollar bills he handles, effectively. 0_o
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2172 2013-03-20 17:52:18 <redeper> :\
2173 2013-03-20 17:52:28 <redeper> well anyway
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2175 2013-03-20 17:52:30 <ashod> ok server finished with reindex , tx is enabled, but still have a problem !!
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2177 2013-03-20 17:52:57 <redeper> wouldn't it make sense, though, that bitcoin would prioritize txouts associated with the account in name, even if that's not a strict requirement
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2179 2013-03-20 17:53:13 <ashod> calling getrawtransactoin for 000000000019d6689c085ae165831e934ff763ae46a2a6c172b3f1b60a8ce26f returns -5
2180 2013-03-20 17:53:14 bakingbread has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2181 2013-03-20 17:53:16 <redeper> just because some users may not anticipate this behavior? i used sendfrom last time and it pulled from the right address, then this time it didn't
2182 2013-03-20 17:53:40 <Happzz> if my wallet.dat is stolen somehow (malware/kids/whatever), how long would it take them to crack it open and steal my money?
2183 2013-03-20 17:53:41 <sipa> ashod: the genesis block's coinbase is not spendable
2184 2013-03-20 17:53:46 <sipa> ashod: it doesn't exist in the index
2185 2013-03-20 17:54:00 <gmaxwell> ashod: see the conversation when you asked about that hash before.
2186 2013-03-20 17:54:31 <ashod> ok, - then why does blockexplorer.com show information about this block, - how did they obtain it
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2189 2013-03-20 17:55:08 <sipa> ashod: because they do index it
2190 2013-03-20 17:55:30 <ashod> plese explain "they do idnex it"
2191 2013-03-20 17:55:47 <ashod> how do they index it , - what did they do different
2192 2013-03-20 17:55:48 <sipa> they create an entry in their index for this transaction
2193 2013-03-20 17:56:09 <Happzz> anyone?
2194 2013-03-20 17:56:18 <ashod> manually ?
2195 2013-03-20 17:56:21 <sipa> we don't, as bitcoind is primarily designed to validate blocks and transactions, and for this purpose, this transaction does simply not exist
2196 2013-03-20 17:56:36 <TD> irc.lfnet is down :(
2197 2013-03-20 17:56:38 <jgarzik> Happzz: if encrypted, a very very long time
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2199 2013-03-20 17:56:48 <jgarzik> Happzz: if not encrypted, a very very short time
2200 2013-03-20 17:56:58 <Happzz> encrypted.
2201 2013-03-20 17:57:04 <Happzz> but idk what kinda shit malware they use.
2202 2013-03-20 17:57:24 <Scrat> Happzz: as long as your password isnt abc123 then you're good
2203 2013-03-20 17:57:40 <Happzz> bitcoin-qt needs an emergecy "omg omg i got hacked" feature that makes a tx that sends _everything_ to a new address
2204 2013-03-20 17:58:08 <BenderCoin> Happzz, it does, restore backup to another bitcoin-qt and send the money out
2205 2013-03-20 17:58:33 <helo> Happzz: that same feature would be pretty useful to grab someone's coin really quickly :)
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2207 2013-03-20 17:58:52 <Eneerge> yeah
2208 2013-03-20 17:59:15 <helo> well, i guess not if done right
2209 2013-03-20 17:59:39 <helo> you would pre-generate the transactions to send your coin somewhere else (offline), and they'd just be sitting there until you clicked "omgwtfbbq"
2210 2013-03-20 18:00:01 <BenderCoin> remember the wallet is not really a wallet, its just a construct as meantioned earlier. its just keys used for spending. so if you get hacked, there can be 2 wallets, the first one to spend wins.
2211 2013-03-20 18:00:17 <Scrat> Happzz: if someone can get your wallet.dat, they can (probably) log your keys and your password
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2213 2013-03-20 18:01:03 <Happzz> Scrat i'm not really exposed, i'm asking for my knowledge.
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2216 2013-03-20 18:01:57 <pete91> gavinandresen: "Perhaps trigger this an alert if there is a long enough side chain detected, even if it is not the main chain." from https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0050 looks wrong
2217 2013-03-20 18:02:12 <Scrat> I didn't say that you are. wallet's encryption is virtually unbreakable with a strong password, but there are other factors like the one I mentioned
2218 2013-03-20 18:02:44 <gavinandresen> pete91: sloppy editing, I should be fired.
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2221 2013-03-20 18:03:27 <pete91> lol - it looks very comprehensive actually, you should get a bonus :)
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2223 2013-03-20 18:03:50 <ashod> ok something more current - i do a getblockhash 226000 and it returns 000000000000012c614cf477c3b155d339f29d565c0258f9846c2f4dd402ff9b
2224 2013-03-20 18:04:07 <ashod> then i do getrawtransaction ['000000000000012c614cf477c3b155d339f29d565c0258f9846c2f4dd402ff9b',1]
2225 2013-03-20 18:04:15 <sipa> that's not a transaction id
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2227 2013-03-20 18:04:19 <sipa> it's a block hash
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2229 2013-03-20 18:04:33 <gavinandresen> pete91: TD helped write a lot of it, he should get the bonus
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2233 2013-03-20 18:05:59 <ashod> (*## -
2234 2013-03-20 18:06:17 <pete91> gavinandresen: TD: good job
2235 2013-03-20 18:07:07 <pete91> what's the best way to see the network-majority version of bitcoind? (and proportion of other versions if possible)
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2241 2013-03-20 18:08:51 <BlueMatt> TD: contact solar
2242 2013-03-20 18:09:03 <BlueMatt> (he runs/ran lfnet)
2243 2013-03-20 18:09:06 i2pRelay has joined
2244 2013-03-20 18:09:31 <BlueMatt> oh, well you cant contact him, the registration on his personal domain lapsed...
2245 2013-03-20 18:09:37 <sipa> pete91: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/branches.html
2246 2013-03-20 18:10:06 <gmaxwell> Whats this about lfnet?
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2248 2013-03-20 18:10:40 <sipa> TD: seems to work here
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2252 2013-03-20 18:14:11 <pete91> sipa: thanks - and http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/versions.txt for subversions..
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2255 2013-03-20 18:15:17 <gmaxwell> TD: perhaps your ISP is blocking it?
2256 2013-03-20 18:15:37 <gmaxwell> (Part of the reason we stopped using it was that it was getting intermittently blocked)
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2288 2013-03-20 18:39:34 <sivu> hitting $70 tomorrow
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2291 2013-03-20 18:41:59 <gmaxwell> sivu: Thats offtopic for here.
2292 2013-03-20 18:43:00 <ashod> how big is the entire blockexplorer database ? - all blocks, all txtids, and all details for all transactions etc
2293 2013-03-20 18:43:34 <sivu> gmaxwell, it was one off in the channel list anyway
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2295 2013-03-20 18:44:42 <gmaxwell> ashod: how should we know? Blockexplorer is not open source.
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2298 2013-03-20 18:45:43 <ashod> 50gigs ? more , less ?
2299 2013-03-20 18:46:20 <sivu> size of the blockchain?
2300 2013-03-20 18:46:25 <bVector> just sent some coin to the wrong address, is there a way to double-spend to have at least 50% chance of it going to the correct address?
2301 2013-03-20 18:46:38 <bVector> still unconfirmed
2302 2013-03-20 18:46:42 <SomeoneWeird> less
2303 2013-03-20 18:46:54 <SomeoneWeird> not really
2304 2013-03-20 18:47:00 <gmaxwell> ashod: 11:23 < gmaxwell> ashod: how should we know? Blockexplorer is not open source.
2305 2013-03-20 18:47:11 <gmaxwell> ashod: For all I know it's 400 tbytes.
2306 2013-03-20 18:47:16 RoboTeddy has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2307 2013-03-20 18:47:20 _pr has joined
2308 2013-03-20 18:48:38 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2309 2013-03-20 18:48:39 <CodeShark> lol - I think it's fairly safe to assume it's somewhere in the gigabytes, gmaxwell :p
2310 2013-03-20 18:49:10 i2pRelay has joined
2311 2013-03-20 18:49:22 <CodeShark> the upper and lower bounds are not too hard to compute
2312 2013-03-20 18:49:32 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: uh, an upper bound is not computable.
2313 2013-03-20 18:49:45 <CodeShark> well, the upper bound could be computed if we made a few assumptions
2314 2013-03-20 18:49:57 <CodeShark> for instance, a limit on the amount of redundancy
2315 2013-03-20 18:50:19 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: for example, there are at least indexes on address prefixes and other scriptpubkey extractions.
2316 2013-03-20 18:50:39 <ashod> ok    thanks - just was thining if it would be feasble to crawl the whole thing - ,,
2317 2013-03-20 18:50:49 <gmaxwell> ashod: what are you doing!@#!(*)*
2318 2013-03-20 18:50:53 ovidiusoft has joined
2319 2013-03-20 18:50:55 <CodeShark> even if we assume there's an index for each field, we'd probably still be somewhere in the gigabytes
2320 2013-03-20 18:50:57 <Scrat> my DHT oracle db stored on reed-solomon codes is 400 TB
2321 2013-03-20 18:51:00 <CodeShark> tens or hundreds, perhaps
2322 2013-03-20 18:51:38 <gmaxwell> ashod: the heck man. There is a _SINGLE_ 'fake' transaction in block zero which isn't indexed. Stop using that transaction for testing, all the subsiquent ones are fine.
2323 2013-03-20 18:51:42 <Scrat> ashod: 10 GB would be my guess
2324 2013-03-20 18:51:54 <helo> heh
2325 2013-03-20 18:51:58 <gmaxwell> Scrat: I'm quite sure it's much larger than 10GBytes.
2326 2013-03-20 18:52:35 <CodeShark> I'm quite sure it's larger than 5GB and smaller than 1 TB
2327 2013-03-20 18:52:37 <CodeShark> :)
2328 2013-03-20 18:52:43 <gmaxwell> The abe databases were several times that.
2329 2013-03-20 18:52:43 grau_ has joined
2330 2013-03-20 18:52:46 <CodeShark> it's probably smaller than 100 GB
2331 2013-03-20 18:52:55 <Scrat> depends on if your engine uses variable sized char columns
2332 2013-03-20 18:53:12 <gmaxwell> Yes, probably. who knows. Is it now a crime to say "I don't know" around here?
2333 2013-03-20 18:53:15 grau has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2334 2013-03-20 18:53:53 grau_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2335 2013-03-20 18:54:08 <CodeShark> point is, these are not entirely wild guesses
2336 2013-03-20 18:55:08 <gdoteof> i have blk0001.dat - blk0004.dat  but from a v6 client.. can i load these into a .8.1 client?  if not, is there somewhere i can download them pre verified?
2337 2013-03-20 18:55:20 <CodeShark> no, gdoteef
2338 2013-03-20 18:55:28 <CodeShark> *gdoteof
2339 2013-03-20 18:55:30 saulimus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2340 2013-03-20 18:55:46 <CodeShark> 0.8.1 uses an entirely different database engine
2341 2013-03-20 18:55:47 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: which is fine if your purpose is to just demonstrate how smart you are. ... but none of that speculation answers what ashod was actually asking— which was how much data it would take to spider all of blockexplorer.
2342 2013-03-20 18:55:48 <gdoteof> i didnt' think so.  no one has a preverified chain for the v8.1 up yet?
2343 2013-03-20 18:55:50 saulimus has joined
2344 2013-03-20 18:55:50 <CodeShark> with a completely different file format
2345 2013-03-20 18:55:50 bakingbr1ad has joined
2346 2013-03-20 18:55:53 <gmaxwell> gah
2347 2013-03-20 18:55:53 ashod has quit ()
2348 2013-03-20 18:56:00 <gmaxwell> gdoteof: Yes you _can_ load them into 0.8.1
2349 2013-03-20 18:56:09 <gdoteof> oh well great
2350 2013-03-20 18:56:13 <gdoteof> even better =D
2351 2013-03-20 18:56:41 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2352 2013-03-20 18:56:50 grau has joined
2353 2013-03-20 18:57:03 <sivu> it doesnt take that long to redownload whole chain
2354 2013-03-20 18:57:10 i2pRelay has joined
2355 2013-03-20 18:57:18 <gmaxwell> gdoteof: the 0.8+ node should automatically find them and reload them on start.  If it doesn't you can use the -loadblock=/path/to/file000.dat multiple times to tell it to load them.
2356 2013-03-20 18:57:18 CaptainBlaze has quit (Quit: CaptainBlaze)
2357 2013-03-20 18:57:22 <Scrat> gdoteof: jgarzik's torrent (not preverified, it is verified on import)
2358 2013-03-20 18:57:48 <CodeShark> I would recommend just building the db from scratch
2359 2013-03-20 18:57:55 <gmaxwell> Yea, nothing skips verifying them— that would be risky.
2360 2013-03-20 18:58:11 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: Why? loading from files is totally safe, boring, and a lot faster than pulling from the network.
2361 2013-03-20 18:58:15 <gdoteof> gmaxwell: oh okay.  thanks.  i am setting this up on a new machine.. trying to create a secure persistent installastion on tails
2362 2013-03-20 18:58:22 <gdoteof> and its slooow to dl the blockchain over tor
2363 2013-03-20 18:58:59 kapiteined has joined
2364 2013-03-20 19:00:40 MobGod has joined
2365 2013-03-20 19:01:49 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2366 2013-03-20 19:02:05 bakingbr1ad has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2367 2013-03-20 19:02:11 easye has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2368 2013-03-20 19:02:25 <sipa> gdoteof: also, you don't want a preverified database; if you're going to trust someone to validtae history for you, you may as well just use an SPV client and not bother with verification at all
2369 2013-03-20 19:02:45 jtimon_ has joined
2370 2013-03-20 19:02:46 <gdoteof> well thats why i asked about using my own preverified database
2371 2013-03-20 19:02:53 <sipa> oh, ok
2372 2013-03-20 19:02:59 <sipa> sure, you can trust yourself
2373 2013-03-20 19:03:12 <sipa> but as said, 0.8 uses a very different format from older versions
2374 2013-03-20 19:03:41 <gdoteof> but i would be open to suggestions on an SPV client as well.  electrum is kind of a pain because of the way tails wants to do persistence for python libs
2375 2013-03-20 19:03:53 <gmaxwell> in any case, assuming your computer is reaonsably fast, much (most?) of the sync time is in the network side of it.
2376 2013-03-20 19:03:56 denisx has joined
2377 2013-03-20 19:04:04 jtimon has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2378 2013-03-20 19:04:21 veox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2379 2013-03-20 19:04:26 <gdoteof> its not that fast actually.  atom processor with SSD
2380 2013-03-20 19:04:31 <sipa> the only reasonably feature complete desktop SPV client is Multibit, afaik
2381 2013-03-20 19:04:42 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2382 2013-03-20 19:04:57 <MC-Droid> i seriouely cant get bitcoin wallet to go away
2383 2013-03-20 19:05:00 easye has joined
2384 2013-03-20 19:05:16 i2pRelay has joined
2385 2013-03-20 19:05:38 <MC-Droid> oh its gone now
2386 2013-03-20 19:05:55 CaptainBlaze has joined
2387 2013-03-20 19:06:05 <gdoteof> sipa: thanks i will give that a shot
2388 2013-03-20 19:08:02 polrpaul has joined
2389 2013-03-20 19:09:06 PhantomSpark has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2390 2013-03-20 19:09:35 _pr has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2391 2013-03-20 19:09:46 debiantoruser has joined
2392 2013-03-20 19:09:47 polrpaul has quit (Client Quit)
2393 2013-03-20 19:10:10 polrpaul has joined
2394 2013-03-20 19:10:19 <denisx> my bitcoind 0.8.0 crashes sometimes with "pure virtual method called", "terminate called without an active exception"
2395 2013-03-20 19:10:51 <sipa> denisx: hmm, that is very strange
2396 2013-03-20 19:11:14 <CodeShark> a bad typecast?
2397 2013-03-20 19:11:23 <denisx> sipa: the only thing using it is the stratum-mining python script
2398 2013-03-20 19:11:25 _pr has joined
2399 2013-03-20 19:11:32 <CodeShark> C++ won't let you link to abstract classes
2400 2013-03-20 19:12:42 <denisx> right now I', building 0.8.1 and will report when it happens again
2401 2013-03-20 19:12:44 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2402 2013-03-20 19:13:09 <CodeShark> must be the python rte?
2403 2013-03-20 19:13:16 i2pRelay has joined
2404 2013-03-20 19:13:40 <denisx> rte?
2405 2013-03-20 19:13:45 <CodeShark> runtime environment
2406 2013-03-20 19:13:52 mappum has joined
2407 2013-03-20 19:13:56 CodesInChaos has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2408 2013-03-20 19:14:00 <sipa> CodeShark: ?
2409 2013-03-20 19:14:14 <denisx> CodeShark: yes, but nevertheless bitcoind should not crash
2410 2013-03-20 19:14:19 <CodeShark> nvm
2411 2013-03-20 19:14:51 <CodeShark> point is C++ won't let you instantiate a pure abstract class
2412 2013-03-20 19:15:11 <denisx> CodeShark: this is a pure bitcoind 0.8, no changes at all
2413 2013-03-20 19:15:17 shlm has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2414 2013-03-20 19:15:40 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: apparently the typechecking isn't sufficient, at least in non-race-free programs: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3160403/pure-virtual-method-called-when-implementing-a-boostthread-wrapper-interface
2415 2013-03-20 19:15:46 <sipa> we certainly do typecasts, so it's not inevitable
2416 2013-03-20 19:15:59 <sipa> s/inevitable/impossible/
2417 2013-03-20 19:16:33 <denisx> I can provide the crashdump if anyone is interested
2418 2013-03-20 19:16:41 FredEE has joined
2419 2013-03-20 19:16:43 <sipa> denisx: yes please
2420 2013-03-20 19:17:07 <denisx> sipa: or we start with a bt first
2421 2013-03-20 19:17:30 <sipa> denisx: sure
2422 2013-03-20 19:18:02 <gmaxwell> denisx: thread apply all bt
2423 2013-03-20 19:18:16 fulanito has joined
2424 2013-03-20 19:19:52 SchmalzTech has quit ()
2425 2013-03-20 19:21:27 i2pRelay has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2426 2013-03-20 19:23:33 iddo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2427 2013-03-20 19:23:33 FredEE has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2428 2013-03-20 19:25:13 iddo has joined
2429 2013-03-20 19:26:47 PhantomSpark has joined
2430 2013-03-20 19:27:07 <denisx> somehow the bug noticed that I told you and now it wont show up ;(
2431 2013-03-20 19:27:17 <discrete> ;;ticker
2432 2013-03-20 19:27:18 <gribble> BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 63.30001, Best ask: 63.50000, Bid-ask spread: 0.19999, Last trade: 63.50000, 24 hour volume: 81357.49412970, 24 hour low: 56.00000, 24 hour high: 64.99980, 24 hour vwap: 60.70770
2433 2013-03-20 19:28:05 pigeons has joined
2434 2013-03-20 19:28:23 <bVector> is txid sha256 of the signed or unsigned transaction?
2435 2013-03-20 19:28:46 <CodeShark> signed
2436 2013-03-20 19:28:53 Hasimir- has quit (Quit: Vidi, Vici, Veni.)
2437 2013-03-20 19:29:11 pete78 has joined
2438 2013-03-20 19:29:32 shlm has joined
2439 2013-03-20 19:29:54 <bVector> if I sha256sum the signed transaction, should I get the txid?
2440 2013-03-20 19:30:15 <CodeShark> sha256 twice
2441 2013-03-20 19:30:20 <bVector> ah
2442 2013-03-20 19:30:51  has joined
2443 2013-03-20 19:30:51 _pr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2444 2013-03-20 19:31:34 <CodeShark> except for codebase transactions, of course, which are not signed
2445 2013-03-20 19:31:35 kapiteined has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 17.0.2/20130127105211])
2446 2013-03-20 19:31:35 dimethylsulfide has joined
2447 2013-03-20 19:31:50 <CodeShark> generation transactions
2448 2013-03-20 19:31:51 saulimus has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2449 2013-03-20 19:32:16 <CodeShark> but they are hashed with scripts and all
2450 2013-03-20 19:32:24 <denisx> ok, it happened again, but only ?? in the core file, I build again with -g
2451 2013-03-20 19:32:25 saulimus has joined
2452 2013-03-20 19:32:43 <bVector> I'm still not getting the right txid hrm
2453 2013-03-20 19:32:56 <CodeShark> be careful with endianness, bVector
2454 2013-03-20 19:33:06 Eleuthria has joined
2455 2013-03-20 19:33:14 <bVector> I'm using the linux sha256sum builtin
2456 2013-03-20 19:33:26 B0g4r7_ has joined
2457 2013-03-20 19:33:40 easye has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2458 2013-03-20 19:33:50 <Scrat> bVector: echo inserts newlines. use echo -n
2459 2013-03-20 19:34:00 easye has joined
2460 2013-03-20 19:34:21 <bVector> I'm typing the command, then pressing enter, then pasting the hex, then pressing Ctrl+D twice
2461 2013-03-20 19:34:51 <CodeShark> make sure it takes hex input and not utf-8 or something
2462 2013-03-20 19:34:52 warreng has left ()
2463 2013-03-20 19:35:01 ThomasV has joined
2464 2013-03-20 19:35:01 <Scrat> try echo -n stuff | sha256sum
2465 2013-03-20 19:35:53 <Scrat> and what CodeShark said
2466 2013-03-20 19:36:10 <Scrat> you are hashing the hex representation
2467 2013-03-20 19:39:48 <jgarzik> noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
2468 2013-03-20 19:39:51 <jgarzik> solo mined a block
2469 2013-03-20 19:39:53 <jgarzik> and it orphaned
2470 2013-03-20 19:40:00 * jgarzik kicks 0.8.1
2471 2013-03-20 19:40:06 <Scrat> bVector: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3481.msg52154#msg52154
2472 2013-03-20 19:40:13 <Eleuthria> aww, poor jgarzik :(
2473 2013-03-20 19:40:18 <Eleuthria> What block #?
2474 2013-03-20 19:40:34 <jgarzik> New block: 000000000000032c027c445be982914c452b9c124a94d2db99223411ee369cf5 (height: 226978; bits: 1a0375fa)
2475 2013-03-20 19:40:52 <Eleuthria> blockchain.info never even saw it :(
2476 2013-03-20 19:40:59 <Eleuthria> That's pretty rare
2477 2013-03-20 19:41:00 <jgarzik> indeed :(
2478 2013-03-20 19:41:25 <Eleuthria> You should come back to the Guild.  Soon there will be no orphans, mwahahahahhahh (/s)
2479 2013-03-20 19:42:18 <jgarzik> hum :(
2480 2013-03-20 19:42:29 <BlueMatt> or mine p2pool (or...fix p2pool so that you can mine on it)
2481 2013-03-20 19:42:43 <jgarzik> this could be bad
2482 2013-03-20 19:42:43 <BlueMatt> as p2pool block relay is pretty fast over the p2pool network
2483 2013-03-20 19:42:44 bitcoinbulletin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2484 2013-03-20 19:42:50 <jgarzik> I do not see it getting sent out
2485 2013-03-20 19:42:55 <jgarzik> that would be a very bad 0.8.1 bug
2486 2013-03-20 19:42:57 <jgarzik> http://pastebin.com/S9tHdw31
2487 2013-03-20 19:43:07 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: if it was stale when you got it, you wouldn't send it out.
2488 2013-03-20 19:44:57 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: grab enough log to show where you accepted the competing block.
2489 2013-03-20 19:45:13 <Eleuthria> uhm
2490 2013-03-20 19:45:15 * gmaxwell bets that it happened before you recieved the 000000000000032c027c445be982914c452b9c124a94d2db99223411ee369cf5 from your miner.
2491 2013-03-20 19:45:29 <Eleuthria> Yeah, that's my guess
2492 2013-03-20 19:45:34 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: I thought I did?
2493 2013-03-20 19:45:39 <Eleuthria> You already had the block that was being submitted by submitblock
2494 2013-03-20 19:45:42 <Eleuthria> Same height
2495 2013-03-20 19:45:45 <jgarzik> yep
2496 2013-03-20 19:46:05 <Eleuthria> So it didn't push out because you already saw it as an orphan on your own bitcoind :(
2497 2013-03-20 19:46:15 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: 24326xxx doesn't have it.
2498 2013-03-20 19:46:26 <jgarzik> miner found it a second or so after it hit local bitcoind
2499 2013-03-20 19:46:49 <jgarzik> burned by the eloipool delay, it seems (5-10 seconds)
2500 2013-03-20 19:47:00 <Eleuthria> ah, GBT?
2501 2013-03-20 19:47:20 toffoo has quit ()
2502 2013-03-20 19:47:42 <jgarzik> Eleuthria: no, it just needs a kick when a new block arrives.  normally it just fetches new work by polling every ~5-10 seconds
2503 2013-03-20 19:47:52 <jgarzik> Eleuthria: so you have a 5-10 second stale window there
2504 2013-03-20 19:47:55 <CodeShark> bVector, try  echo -n rawtx | xxd -r -p | sha256sum -b | sed 's/\s.*//g' | xxd -r -p | sha256sum -b | sed 's/\s.*//g'
2505 2013-03-20 19:47:58 oleganza has joined
2506 2013-03-20 19:47:59 <Eleuthria> ...that sounds poorly designed
2507 2013-03-20 19:48:02 <gmaxwell> well 10 seconds response implies an orphaning rate of 1.6%.
2508 2013-03-20 19:48:11 <CodeShark> and then reverse the endianness of the result
2509 2013-03-20 19:48:39 <denisx> jgarzik: I modified pushpool that it checks for a new block at least every second
2510 2013-03-20 19:48:42 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: eloipool can connect to the p2pool socket and it gets triggered that way. I dunno if thats on by default.
2511 2013-03-20 19:48:45 <jgarzik> I _think_ it supports a SIGUSR1 kick
2512 2013-03-20 19:48:58 <gmaxwell> s/p2pool/p2p/
2513 2013-03-20 19:48:59 <jgarzik> denisx: there is no need to do that -- that's what blkmond (or bitcoind's -blocknotify) is for
2514 2013-03-20 19:49:04 <gmaxwell> (sorry, fingers autocompleted)
2515 2013-03-20 19:49:07 <jgarzik> denisx: no need for polling, like that
2516 2013-03-20 19:49:20 <denisx> jgarzik: I know, it is just a safety feature
2517 2013-03-20 19:49:21 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2518 2013-03-20 19:49:29 <Eleuthria> I still use polling on Guild, working on adding a SIGUSR1 alert
2519 2013-03-20 19:49:29 <jgarzik> eloipool connects directly to bitcoind, too
2520 2013-03-20 19:49:34 <jgarzik> I'm surprised it does not kick itself
2521 2013-03-20 19:49:40 <jgarzik> since it is on the P2P net
2522 2013-03-20 19:49:56 <Eleuthria> But I poll every 20ms
2523 2013-03-20 19:50:13 * jgarzik blames luke-jr for the loss of $1500 :)
2524 2013-03-20 19:50:13 <Eleuthria> 0.8.1 doesn't mind :P
2525 2013-03-20 19:50:15 <jgarzik> j/k
2526 2013-03-20 19:50:28 <muhoo> hahaha http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cps/3691470276.html sheesh.
2527 2013-03-20 19:50:48 <Eleuthria> heh
2528 2013-03-20 19:50:50 <muhoo> nigerian bitcoin scammers
2529 2013-03-20 19:51:35 <kadoban> nice
2530 2013-03-20 19:51:37 <Eleuthria> At least nobody has fallen for it yet
2531 2013-03-20 19:51:38 <bVector> CodeShark: still not matching... hrm
2532 2013-03-20 19:51:48 <bVector> should be 085348ed2c2fe99bce514ea1462e88135be37817f168d47f124f0568fb4e8a80
2533 2013-03-20 19:51:51 <bVector> rawtx: http://pastebin.com/0xKgVaA3
2534 2013-03-20 19:52:09 bitcoinbulletin has joined
2535 2013-03-20 19:52:30 <bVector> oh you said reverse endianness after
2536 2013-03-20 19:52:44 <Eleuthria> euh, endianness still gives me nightmares
2537 2013-03-20 19:52:54 <swappermall> muhoo, and it's not even April 1st today ... hah!
2538 2013-03-20 19:52:58 <bVector> it worked then!
2539 2013-03-20 19:53:35 * sipa guves Eleuthria a PDP-11
2540 2013-03-20 19:53:36 <muhoo> swappermall: somehow i bet that guy wasn't joking, even though, he certainly is a joker.
2541 2013-03-20 19:54:03 <jgarzik> bitcoin endianness is nuts
2542 2013-03-20 19:54:23 <jgarzik> especially all the swapping for 'getwork' (I dunno if stratum is as dumb as the getwork interface, WRT endian)
2543 2013-03-20 19:54:24 <swappermall> who is this endianness jones guy anyway?
2544 2013-03-20 19:54:28 CaptainBlaze has quit (Quit: CaptainBlaze)
2545 2013-03-20 19:54:29 <sipa> jgarzik: but it's easy! it is always little endian, except when it is not!
2546 2013-03-20 19:54:34 <jgarzik> :)
2547 2013-03-20 19:54:45 <bVector> guys here about that guy that got fired because some woman at pycon was offended by overhearing him make a forking' joke?
2548 2013-03-20 19:54:52 <bVector> hear about*
2549 2013-03-20 19:54:54 <jgarzik> sipa: or you might swap, and then swap again, and then swap again :)
2550 2013-03-20 19:55:16 <petertodd> jgarzik: You need more peers; my EC2 node got received that block a whole 3 seconds before yours did.
2551 2013-03-20 19:55:23 <petertodd> (assuming we're both using ntp)
2552 2013-03-20 19:55:37 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2553 2013-03-20 19:55:37 <muhoo> bVector: github used to show "hardcore forking action" as a status message. always seemed a bit inappropriate to me; not surprised they got rid of it eventually.
2554 2013-03-20 19:55:41 <jgarzik> petertodd: no, that's not the problem
2555 2013-03-20 19:55:57 <petertodd> jgarzik: Not the main problem, but it would help.
2556 2013-03-20 19:56:30 <bVector> http://www.reddit.com/r/TumblrInAction/comments/1alg55/woman_at_pycon_tweets_a_picture_of_two_guys/
2557 2013-03-20 19:56:44 * gmaxwell pushes the OT towards another channel
2558 2013-03-20 19:56:57 <bVector> its development related :D
2559 2013-03-20 19:57:05 BlackPrapor has joined
2560 2013-03-20 19:57:39 Muis has joined
2561 2013-03-20 19:57:50 <Eleuthria> sipa:  Heh, PDP-11.  Those were developped 16 years before I was born :)
2562 2013-03-20 19:58:51 <gmaxwell> Eleuthria: you can easily spin up an emulator with one, with actual unix. I'd try to run picocoin on it— except the compiler is pre-ansic in annoying ways.
2563 2013-03-20 19:59:16 <Eleuthria> My geek level isn't high enough to start running PDP emulators.
2564 2013-03-20 19:59:39 <gmaxwell> Though I bet getting picocoin working on vax with netbsd wouldn't be too hard.
2565 2013-03-20 19:59:40 <Eleuthria> Need to go grind experience in Assembly first.
2566 2013-03-20 19:59:41 <sipa> Eleuthria: well, 14 years before i was, i just read they had a mixed-endian byteorder :)
2567 2013-03-20 20:00:31  has quit (Clown|!~clown@static-87-79-93-140.netcologne.de|)
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2577 2013-03-20 20:14:27 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: I think the BitcoinNode impl is buggy; why aren't you using blocknotify? O.o
2578 2013-03-20 20:15:02 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr: shouldn't have to, if you're on the P2P network :)
2579 2013-03-20 20:16:06 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: it probably isn't. bitcoind likes to boot it :/
2580 2013-03-20 20:16:22 <Luke-Jr> I *think* it would if it was connected (but it's been forever since I tried to make that work)
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2590 2013-03-20 20:21:52 <muhoo> TD: with 20 peers connected, this is what i saw FYI for .getConfidence.numBroadcastPeers() last night: https://www.refheap.com/paste/12772
2591 2013-03-20 20:23:08 <muhoo> on bitcoinj, latest git HEAD
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2608 2013-03-20 20:43:01 <BlueMatt> hmm...why is createrawtransaction always giving me Error Parsing JSON in the -qt debug window?
2609 2013-03-20 20:43:29 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: because you need to modulate the ' " \ []{} phase harmonics.
2610 2013-03-20 20:43:51 <Eleuthria> heh
2611 2013-03-20 20:43:58 <BlueMatt> ohhh, ok that helps?
2612 2013-03-20 20:44:03 <gmaxwell> It does work— but you need the right mixture of escapes and quotes to appease the parse gods.
2613 2013-03-20 20:44:12 <BlueMatt> yea, thats what I was thinking...
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2615 2013-03-20 20:44:47 <Eleuthria> I find success normally comes after a ritual sacrifice of an old stick of RAM or dying hard drive.
2616 2013-03-20 20:45:10 <BlueMatt> damn, I sacrificed my only dead hdd last week for an unrelated issue
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2618 2013-03-20 20:45:31 <sipa> Eleuthria: you should start a business of selling dying hard drives
2619 2013-03-20 20:45:36 <Eleuthria> Hah
2620 2013-03-20 20:46:23 <gmaxwell> "Good for money launderers: data self destructs without implicating you in the destruction of evidence"
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2689 2013-03-20 21:47:05 <jgarzik> It would be interesting to make some local mining code mods, that prioritize my own blocks, in the event of a choice between (last block - mine, last block - not mine)
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2693 2013-03-20 21:50:03 <bakingbread> Let's suppose I have 0 BTC in my wallet. Then somebody sends 1 BTC from their 1a.. to my address 1b.. (transaction t1). As soon as I receive 1 confirmation of the t1 transaction I send this money to the 1c.. (transaction t2). t1 still has less then 6 confirmations but t2 is already beginning to receive confirmations.
2694 2013-03-20 21:50:39 rdymac has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2695 2013-03-20 21:50:51 <bakingbread> now 1) what happends if t1 is being rejected? 2) can at some point t2 has more confirmatins than t1?
2696 2013-03-20 21:51:22 zer0def has joined
2697 2013-03-20 21:51:46 <weex> bakingbread: t2 cannot confirm unless t1 is confirmed
2698 2013-03-20 21:51:57 <weex> meaning t1 must be in a block
2699 2013-03-20 21:52:43 RoboTeddy has joined
2700 2013-03-20 21:53:04 <weex> so in your scenario the block t1 was originally confirmed in was orphaned so t1 must be included in another block for t2 to be confirmed
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2705 2013-03-20 21:55:03 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: that patch could be called "Automatic block exclusion attack"
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2708 2013-03-20 21:56:02 <helo> would it be a terrible idea to set the divisibility of bitcoin dynamically based on the average fee?
2709 2013-03-20 21:56:12 <bakingbread> weex: when you say being confirm you mean at least 1 confirmation? So t1 will always have more confirmations than t2, is it correct?
2710 2013-03-20 21:56:24 <bakingbread> weex: I'm confused
2711 2013-03-20 21:56:29 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: Well really, all I need is an RPC or automated logic that performs a one-block reorg, switches locally to the other block.  Everything else stays the same.
2712 2013-03-20 21:56:52 <gfawkes__> i gotta stay outta that channel.... really gets the blood boiling
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2714 2013-03-20 21:57:20 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: an rpc to trigger reorgs would be fun for testing.
2715 2013-03-20 21:57:31 i2pRelay has joined
2716 2013-03-20 21:57:48 <weex> bakingbread: t1 must have a confirmation before t2 can get one
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2720 2013-03-20 21:59:46 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: but really that practice of extending your own block even if it was later is an automatic denial attack.
2721 2013-03-20 22:00:15 <sipa> weex: bakingbread: t1 and t2 can get their first confirmation in the same block, so conf(t1) >= conf(t2)
2722 2013-03-20 22:00:23 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: Then again, considering Eleuthria's earlier comment, I guess you'd have an audience for it.
2723 2013-03-20 22:00:34 <jgarzik> RPC 'setchain' <hash> - Switches to alternate hashBestChain.  <hash> must exist at same height as current hashBestChain.
2724 2013-03-20 22:00:43 <jgarzik> ?
2725 2013-03-20 22:00:55 <weex> thanks sipa
2726 2013-03-20 22:01:22 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: why same height? let it reorg you wherever.
2727 2013-03-20 22:01:41 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: seems like that would fry the logics, if you reorg to a shorter chain
2728 2013-03-20 22:01:55 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: for my own selfish purposes, it's a safety check
2729 2013-03-20 22:02:21 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: I can't think of where that would fry it.  Without that ability its not useful as test instrumentation.
2730 2013-03-20 22:02:53 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: maybe a safty flag to let it go back?
2731 2013-03-20 22:03:23 <jgarzik> sure
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2734 2013-03-20 22:05:00 <sipa> it'd need some logic to prevent reorging back
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2736 2013-03-20 22:05:11 <sipa> unless that's what you want
2737 2013-03-20 22:05:32 <gmaxwell> no, he wants it to reorg back
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2740 2013-03-20 22:06:23 <gmaxwell> The idea being that when there is a tie you may have some selfish preference other than the one that causes the fastest convergence. ... but you obviously don't want to keep mining on a losing fork.
2741 2013-03-20 22:06:28 <helo> no pressure guys, but Market Cap $734,605,405 ;)
2742 2013-03-20 22:08:55 <jgarzik> sipa: The selfish motivation is that I solo-mined a block a second or two after a block of equal height appeared on the network
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2745 2013-03-20 22:09:20 <jgarzik> sipa: For that situation, I would prefer to mine on top of my own block
2746 2013-03-20 22:09:43 <bakingbread> weex: sipa can somebody with a mining rig 'fake' confirmation? how will be such false confirmation revealed?
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2749 2013-03-20 22:11:02 <jgarzik> Conspiracy theory of the day:  ASICMINER is Chinese military / internal security
2750 2013-03-20 22:11:48 <Gigitrix-Phone> Jgarzik, what's the theory based on?
2751 2013-03-20 22:12:00 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2752 2013-03-20 22:12:11 <pizzacat> speculation
2753 2013-03-20 22:12:13 <pizzacat> duhh
2754 2013-03-20 22:12:18 <pizzacat> ;)
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2756 2013-03-20 22:12:32 <jgarzik> or Triads
2757 2013-03-20 22:12:44 <weex> bakingbread: you can't fake a confirmation (you have to find a sufficiently low hash)
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2762 2013-03-20 22:15:51 <sipa> jgarzik: just do a SetBestChain(pindexJgarzik);
2763 2013-03-20 22:16:06 * helo nearly falls over seeing a testnet mined block notification
2764 2013-03-20 22:17:28 <muhoo> it is somewhat alarming that the shape of the parabola we're in now looks exactly like the one of may/june 2011, just higher amplitude.
2765 2013-03-20 22:17:29 <bakingbread> weex: does every client checks the confirmations?
2766 2013-03-20 22:17:39 <sipa> bakingbread: yes
2767 2013-03-20 22:17:40 <jgarzik> sipa: yep
2768 2013-03-20 22:17:51 <gmaxwell> helo: sometimes I getinfo the wrong node and freak out. You'd think I would have stopped by now— but no.
2769 2013-03-20 22:18:03 <muhoo> but who knows, i'm staying in. too much fun not to.
2770 2013-03-20 22:18:16 <gmaxwell> helo: apparently I'm perfectly willing to believe that some benefactor has mysteriously gifted me hundreds of thousands of bitcoin. :P
2771 2013-03-20 22:18:23 <jgarzik> sipa: either need to pass a 'this is mine' flag to 'submitblock' RPC, or create a 'setchain' reorg RPC to do SetBestChain(pindexSpecified)
2772 2013-03-20 22:18:30 <helo> haha exactly
2773 2013-03-20 22:19:26 <gmaxwell> NAK on "this is mine" flag.
2774 2013-03-20 22:20:38 <gmaxwell> Seriously, what you're suggesting is bad for convergence. If someone wants to patch their node to behave this way, with the cost of carrying around a patch and the risk of hysteria when two high hashpower nodes running such patches create long parallel forks.. well okay, can't prevent that- but it shouldn't be a feature.
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2777 2013-03-20 22:23:11 <jgarzik> That scenario would only occur if the nodes are acting in perfect synchronicity, otherwise the same-height/same-work safety check is triggered
2778 2013-03-20 22:23:34 <jgarzik> Seems highly unlikely
2779 2013-03-20 22:23:45 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: no, it only lasts forever if there is perfect synchronicity.
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2781 2013-03-20 22:24:40 <gmaxwell> I'll make a simulation, give me a few minutes.
2782 2013-03-20 22:25:57 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: the odds of a fork longer than 1 block on mainnet are extremely slim
2783 2013-03-20 22:26:18 <jgarzik> 'submitblock' is probably the easiest entry point
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2785 2013-03-20 22:26:55 <jgarzik> not for upstream bitcoin.git certainly
2786 2013-03-20 22:27:03 <jgarzik> but great for me
2787 2013-03-20 22:27:10 <gmaxwell> Yea, well, if it's not upstream I don't care. You're not a risk.
2788 2013-03-20 22:27:29 <gmaxwell> But it would be risky for these pools with 30% hashpower to run it.
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2790 2013-03-20 22:29:24 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: on current mainnet, it is doubtful that it would last beyond 1 block, maybe 2.
2791 2013-03-20 22:29:37 <gmaxwell> ...
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2795 2013-03-20 22:31:15 <bakingbread> sipa: weex: thanks.. asking questions I was imagining scenario similar to this https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Double_spending#Brute_force_attack (I just read it)
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2805 2013-03-20 22:42:42 <realazthat> hi, I've been going over how the blockchain works, and I could use some clarification on how the transaction works
2806 2013-03-20 22:43:03 <realazthat> say you have multiple inputs and multiple outputs, how does the output distribute over the inputs?
2807 2013-03-20 22:43:17 <realazthat> ie. how do you know which output applies to which input?
2808 2013-03-20 22:43:25 <Luke-Jr> there is no correlation
2809 2013-03-20 22:43:28 <sipa> there is no such correspondence
2810 2013-03-20 22:43:28 <realazthat> I think I am missing something conceptually here
2811 2013-03-20 22:43:32 <Luke-Jr> each output has an amount
2812 2013-03-20 22:43:46 <sipa> a transaction consumes some coins (=unspent previous outputs), and creates new ones from it
2813 2013-03-20 22:44:00 <sipa> the only rule is that it cannot create more than it consumes
2814 2013-03-20 22:44:12 <realazthat> what if it uses less than all of the inputs?
2815 2013-03-20 22:44:18 <realazthat> how much is "left"
2816 2013-03-20 22:44:20 <jgarzik> fee
2817 2013-03-20 22:44:26 <realazthat> ah ok
2818 2013-03-20 22:44:27 <sipa> the rest becomes fee for the miners who puts the transaction in a block
2819 2013-03-20 22:44:37 <realazthat> so every transaction must consume it all?
2820 2013-03-20 22:44:45 <realazthat> yes.
2821 2013-03-20 22:45:03 <realazthat> so is it common for transactions to output to an address in its input?
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2823 2013-03-20 22:45:12 <sipa> some clients do that
2824 2013-03-20 22:45:21 <realazthat> ok
2825 2013-03-20 22:45:26 <realazthat> so I think I understand at least
2826 2013-03-20 22:45:27 <sipa> it's generally considered bad practice, as it reduces privacy
2827 2013-03-20 22:45:27 <realazthat> tyvm
2828 2013-03-20 22:45:37 <realazthat> ok
2829 2013-03-20 22:45:44 i2pRelay has joined
2830 2013-03-20 22:45:55 <realazthat> is there a "good practices" wiki page?
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2841 2013-03-20 22:54:05 <muhoo> weird, multibit is taking hours to sync up. wtf?
2842 2013-03-20 22:54:31 <muhoo> 5 blocks per second, 2 blocks per second, says das logs
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2845 2013-03-20 22:57:01 <muhoo> Chain is now 224028 blocks high
2846 2013-03-20 22:57:19 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
2847 2013-03-20 22:57:20 <gribble> 227017
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2849 2013-03-20 22:57:55 <muhoo> only 3k blocks to go :-/
2850 2013-03-20 22:57:59 whiterabbit is now known as wrabbit
2851 2013-03-20 22:58:20 <muhoo> i'm on a reasonably fast connection (comcast), but 2 blocks per second seems really poky to me.
2852 2013-03-20 22:59:19 <muhoo> i thought the latest release of multibit was using bitcoinj 0.7.3 too, which ISTR syncing a hell of a lot faster than this
2853 2013-03-20 22:59:57 <muhoo> ping times 100-300ms to the peers too, he logs lots of good stuff
2854 2013-03-20 23:00:36 <freewil> 2 blocks/second is pretty good if you're downloading and verifying the blocks at the same time
2855 2013-03-20 23:00:52 <CodeShark> sipa: I'm not convinced that generating new change addresses all the time really goes that far a ways to improving privacy
2856 2013-03-20 23:00:53 pizzacat has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2857 2013-03-20 23:01:01 <muhoo> oh, i see. he's not using the SPVBlockStore!
2858 2013-03-20 23:01:13 <muhoo> he's doing a fully-verified download, it looks like. thanks freewil
2859 2013-03-20 23:01:14 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2860 2013-03-20 23:01:33 <CodeShark> it adds great inconveniences to the end user and only adds a questionable amount of additional privacy
2861 2013-03-20 23:01:42 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: wait...you have rpc access to a node with hundreds of thousands of bitcoins?
2862 2013-03-20 23:01:46 i2pRelay has joined
2863 2013-03-20 23:02:11 <CodeShark> it's not that hard to figure out which change addresses also belong to the wallet unless the user takes additional steps
2864 2013-03-20 23:02:22 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: 14:54  * helo nearly falls over seeing a testnet mined block notification
2865 2013-03-20 23:02:29 <BlueMatt> ohh, sorry
2866 2013-03-20 23:02:41 <sipa> CodeShark: agree
2867 2013-03-20 23:03:14 Bohren has joined
2868 2013-03-20 23:03:16 <muhoo> how can you figure out which change addresses do and do not belong to a wallet, unless you have the wallet?
2869 2013-03-20 23:03:51 <Luke-Jr> muhoo: you can't, that's the point
2870 2013-03-20 23:04:11 <muhoo> Luke-Jr: but CodeShark just made the statement that "it's not that hard", so i was asking how
2871 2013-03-20 23:04:37 <CodeShark> muhoo - shared inputs, patterns in the output amounts - for starters
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2873 2013-03-20 23:04:49 <CodeShark> a transaction with one output for 5 btc and another for 1.54235 btc
2874 2013-03-20 23:04:54 <CodeShark> guess which one's the change address :p
2875 2013-03-20 23:06:03 o2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2876 2013-03-20 23:06:16 <muhoo> right, i guess. i just tracked down a guy who i bought some BTC off of, and i was able to pretty much figure out how much he's spent in the last week and how much he has left. because he tore off a little corner for me from a huge loaf of bread, apparently.
2877 2013-03-20 23:06:20 <Luke-Jr> CodeShark: actually, Satoshi had it rounding change off…
2878 2013-03-20 23:06:53 <freewil> even if you generated a transaction manually with many outputs, it stands out and one might be able to assume that the sender owns the majority of the output addresses
2879 2013-03-20 23:06:55 o2 has joined
2880 2013-03-20 23:07:10 <CodeShark> the only way to truly get privacy is joint transactions
2881 2013-03-20 23:07:23 <muhoo> i guess one could just spend from an address with a smaller amount, then nobody knows if the large amount was actually you
2882 2013-03-20 23:07:30 <CodeShark> anything short of that which attempts to add privacy is just additional inconvenience to the end user for no real benefit
2883 2013-03-20 23:08:19 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: I don't agree. Doing things like not generating jagged change is helpful too... and doesn't have to add inconvenience.
2884 2013-03-20 23:08:37 <muhoo> does armory have a GUI for multi-sig tx'es?
2885 2013-03-20 23:09:06 <muhoo> i rememeber someone was talking about doing it, during the whole taint thing, and i'd expect it's been done already by someone by now.
2886 2013-03-20 23:09:17 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2887 2013-03-20 23:09:49 i2pRelay has joined
2888 2013-03-20 23:10:41 banghouse is now known as bangcoin
2889 2013-03-20 23:10:49 bangcoin is now known as coinhouse
2890 2013-03-20 23:10:49 Scrat is now known as Scratcoin
2891 2013-03-20 23:11:22 coinhouse is now known as banghouse
2892 2013-03-20 23:11:27 <CodeShark> gmaxwell: not generating jagged change is additional complication to the wallet algorithm and isn't always possible unless you don't mind randomization of fees and proliferation of new addresses which add to wallet bloat and eat up the pool address pool thus requiring more frequent wallet backups (short of doing something like BIP0032)
2893 2013-03-20 23:12:05 <coinners> I'm trying to run ./bitcoind on a virtual machine with Ubuntu… but getting no response… what I'm doing wrong?
2894 2013-03-20 23:12:25 <coinners> does it work under on a virtual machine anyway!?
2895 2013-03-20 23:12:25 Scratcoin is now known as Scrat
2896 2013-03-20 23:12:27 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: "additional complication to the wallet algorithm" is not "additional inconvenience to the end user".
2897 2013-03-20 23:12:43 <CodeShark> still seems the benefits are questionable at best
2898 2013-03-20 23:12:46 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: especially since it's just something that can be a tiebreaker in an already opaque NP-HARD solver.
2899 2013-03-20 23:13:05 <CodeShark> better to invest that into developing a better wallet management system
2900 2013-03-20 23:13:34 <flyingkiwiguy> coinners: yes, define "no response"
2901 2013-03-20 23:13:36 ashod has joined
2902 2013-03-20 23:13:41 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: The benefits are not questionable. They may not be relevant to all users and are not relevant at all times, but they are relevant.
2903 2013-03-20 23:14:13 <CodeShark> coinners, I run bitcoind under many ubuntu VM instances and it works just fine. check the debug.log file and make sure it's running
2904 2013-03-20 23:14:17 <coinners> flyingkiwiguy, I run the command to launch the server but there's no output… no confirmation, not status, no loading, nothing at all
2905 2013-03-20 23:14:37 <CodeShark> coinners, the debug.log file is where you'll find that information
2906 2013-03-20 23:14:47 <CodeShark> tail -f debug.log
2907 2013-03-20 23:14:48 <flyingkiwiguy> .bitcoind/debug.log
2908 2013-03-20 23:14:50 <coinners> CodeShark tis, I'll look at it
2909 2013-03-20 23:14:57 <coinners> *tks
2910 2013-03-20 23:15:02 <flyingkiwiguy> err, .bitcoin
2911 2013-03-20 23:15:32 <sipa> make that ~/.bitcoin/debug.log
2912 2013-03-20 23:15:40 discrete has joined
2913 2013-03-20 23:16:50 <CodeShark> coinners, furthermore, the RPC won't work until after the database loads
2914 2013-03-20 23:17:20 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2915 2013-03-20 23:17:24 <freewil> which, pre-0.8 can be minutes
2916 2013-03-20 23:17:52 i2pRelay has joined
2917 2013-03-20 23:18:26 <b0t-38> i just noticed version 0.8.1 is out. is it ok to use?
2918 2013-03-20 23:19:26 <sipa> yes
2919 2013-03-20 23:20:12 b0t-38 is now known as bot38
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2921 2013-03-20 23:21:11 <PRab> b0t-38: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.8.0rc1...v0.8.0
2922 2013-03-20 23:21:25 discrete has quit ()
2923 2013-03-20 23:21:39 <PRab> b0t-38: oops, wrong link.
2924 2013-03-20 23:21:40 <CodeShark> gmaxwell: it may be the case that there could be some privacy-enhancing features involving wallet complications - but I think for most end users, simplicity in wallet management trumps marginal improvements in privacy
2925 2013-03-20 23:21:45 <sipa> PRab: v0.8.0rc1 != v0.8.1
2926 2013-03-20 23:22:00 <sipa> CodeShark: i'd say they are orthogonal
2927 2013-03-20 23:22:04 <PRab> sipa: yep wrong link, my bad
2928 2013-03-20 23:22:05 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: I'm not even suggesting something there which is visible to the user.
2929 2013-03-20 23:22:36 <PRab> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.8.0...v0.8.1
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2931 2013-03-20 23:22:41 coinners has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2932 2013-03-20 23:22:47 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: doing things like tiebreaking coin selection to avoid jaggedness is entirely invisible. Slightly rounding up fees when they are paid to kill slight jaggedness, likewise.
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2936 2013-03-20 23:23:07 <CodeShark> sipa: they might be orthogonal under a more sophisticated wallet management system - but the way the wallet currently is implemented in bitcoind, the two objectives are definitely at odds
2937 2013-03-20 23:23:25 <bot38> jaggedness?
2938 2013-03-20 23:23:46 zer0def has quit (Quit: Quit:)
2939 2013-03-20 23:24:09 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: what bitcoind is a complete joke now, its not good by _any_ metric.
2940 2013-03-20 23:24:12 iNdefiNite has joined
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2942 2013-03-20 23:24:25 <CodeShark> gmaxwell: it is nonetheless still the "reference" implementation :)
2943 2013-03-20 23:24:37 zer0def has joined
2944 2013-03-20 23:25:15 <CodeShark> and I haven't found another wallet system that I think is really ideal either
2945 2013-03-20 23:25:21 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
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2947 2013-03-20 23:25:33 <CodeShark> at least not one that's already implemented
2948 2013-03-20 23:25:46 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: armory does all thats been discussed there.
2949 2013-03-20 23:25:52 <gmaxwell> Though its not ideal either, of course...
2950 2013-03-20 23:26:03 i2pRelay has joined
2951 2013-03-20 23:26:06 <gmaxwell> but little optimizations like avoiding jaggedness are simple for it.
2952 2013-03-20 23:26:11 <sipa> CodeShark: i'm sure multiwallet, bip32 and watch-only wallets will improve things already a lot *hint*
2953 2013-03-20 23:26:12 zer0def has quit (Client Quit)
2954 2013-03-20 23:26:19 <CodeShark> ;)
2955 2013-03-20 23:26:39 iNdefiNite has joined
2956 2013-03-20 23:26:45 <CodeShark> I'm a bit torn about what to do about the multiwallet - whether to bother really merging it with master HEAD
2957 2013-03-20 23:26:59 <gmaxwell> but seriously, you could reduce jaggedness trivially in bitcoin-qt with two lines of code.
2958 2013-03-20 23:26:59 <sipa> i'd like you to :)
2959 2013-03-20 23:27:19 <CodeShark> I still use an old build of bitcoind just so I can use multiwallet
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2962 2013-03-20 23:29:13 <CodeShark> oh well, were I to do it over again I'd avoid modifying existing source files as much as possible in favor of creating new source files - and limiting the number of entry points to a minimum
2963 2013-03-20 23:29:43 <CodeShark> until we all agree to merge, in which case the source files can be merged
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2968 2013-03-20 23:31:28 <CodeShark> I should have put the wallet manager class into its own file rather than wallet.h/wallet.cpp - and should have left main.cpp the @#$@ alone except for where it was impossible to do so
2969 2013-03-20 23:32:04 <sipa> i think some cleanup of the source files is very welcome first too
2970 2013-03-20 23:32:08 <iwilcox> Is the reward per block fixed now?  Someone asked elsewhere whether, supposing we subdivide beyond the Satoshi, the geometric halving could go on further or whether the "reward eras" are hard-coded.
2971 2013-03-20 23:32:09 RBecker is now known as rbecker
2972 2013-03-20 23:32:28 <iwilcox> Looking at the very end of https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_Currency_Supply#Projected_Bitcoins_Long_Term
2973 2013-03-20 23:32:41 <sipa> iwilcox: that'd require extending the precision first
2974 2013-03-20 23:33:03 <sipa> and as that is already a hardfork, any rule can change along with it
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2976 2013-03-20 23:33:32 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: https://people.xiph.org/~greg/reorg.png  < This is a CDF plot of reorg lengths (number of blocks dropped out of the chain) for a simulation of two nodes each with 50% hash power and 30 seconds of latency (miner/network/processing/etc).
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2980 2013-03-20 23:34:18 <CodeShark> sipa: cleanup of the source files is a great idea - but should be done as a project unto itself...without mixing in additional features
2981 2013-03-20 23:34:24 <sipa> of course
2982 2013-03-20 23:34:35 Balthamos has joined
2983 2013-03-20 23:34:43 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: bluelines are the current policy, red is the modfication where you only reorg when the other chain is longer. Simulation was run for 30,000 solved blocks.
2984 2013-03-20 23:34:58 Balthamos is now known as Guest11284
2985 2013-03-20 23:35:26 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: as you can see, the change makes large reorgs much more likely.
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2989 2013-03-20 23:36:41 <gmaxwell> e.g. 158 reorgs of length > 6 under your change, vs only 3 with the current policy.
2990 2013-03-20 23:36:52 <gmaxwell> Of course, the only two miners at 50% is a bit of an extreme case.
2991 2013-03-20 23:37:41 <gmaxwell> But the real network is not well distributed either and could have that kind of distrubtion based on the pool choices of a single miner.
2992 2013-03-20 23:37:48 <iwilcox> sipa: 'k, thanks
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3007 2013-03-20 23:47:22 <randy-waterhouse> anybody know of any bitcoin-over UDP work?
3008 2013-03-20 23:47:55 <gmaxwell> None thats released at least— whats your interest?
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3012 2013-03-20 23:48:53 <randy-waterhouse> so you know of some that is not released?
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3015 2013-03-20 23:49:51 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: yes, well, I started a simpler UDP block relayer but didn't finish it.
3016 2013-03-20 23:49:58 i2pRelay has joined
3017 2013-03-20 23:51:07 <randy-waterhouse> interest just academic, curiousity, etc ... think you might put it out there any time?
3018 2013-03-20 23:51:18 <tcatm> multicast tx/block broadcasts might be interesting
3019 2013-03-20 23:51:47 Michail1 is now known as Michail1_
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3021 2013-03-20 23:52:54 <gmaxwell> I was mostly interested in it for the purpose of having a stateless relay mechenism which would allow nodes to get the longest chain with high probablity even if there are many sibyls. E.g. no per connection costs.
3022 2013-03-20 23:53:01 <Scrat> name an ISP that allows udp multicast
3023 2013-03-20 23:53:14 <doublec> broadcast the blockchain over radio maybe
3024 2013-03-20 23:53:23 <gmaxwell> Scrat: sprint.
3025 2013-03-20 23:53:39 <randy-waterhouse> carrier pigeon
3026 2013-03-20 23:53:49 <gmaxwell> (since you said 'name an' — but really many networks have multicast support, if not over the global internet)
3027 2013-03-20 23:54:04 <randy-waterhouse> diversifying layer 1 might not be bad goal in and of itself anyway
3028 2013-03-20 23:54:22 o-p has left ()
3029 2013-03-20 23:54:40 <gmaxwell> But I don't think multicast is all that interesting... doesn't actually solve our problems.
3030 2013-03-20 23:55:50 <randy-waterhouse> gmaxwell: which problems?
3031 2013-03-20 23:55:58 aphorism has joined
3032 2013-03-20 23:56:47 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: E.g. nodes having limited numbers of peers.. it means that an attacker can spin many sibyls, then currently fill up all the sockets on honest public nodes, and partition the network.
3033 2013-03-20 23:57:09 <randy-waterhouse> oh right ...
3034 2013-03-20 23:57:20 <gmaxwell> Private peerings generally stop that, but it would be nice if the networking layer at least reduced that attack to bandwidth exhaustion— which is harder to perform.
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3036 2013-03-20 23:57:38 <Scrat> gmaxwell: OT but intra-ISP is where it's at. I dont think anyone would care if you can multicast sprint-to-sprint, other than sprint
3037 2013-03-20 23:57:45 <randy-waterhouse> ok I see where your going
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3041 2013-03-20 23:58:51 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
3042 2013-03-20 23:58:54 <gmaxwell> Scrat: It actually does work intra ISP— e.g. multicast between uni networks, it's just not widely used. There is a chicken and egg problem there, though AMT solves that.
3043 2013-03-20 23:59:04 jrmithdobbs has joined
3044 2013-03-20 23:59:29 <gmaxwell> (AMT lets unicast hosts get the multicast streams, ISPs can then deploy real multicast incrementall to reduce traffic utilization)
3045 2013-03-20 23:59:40 aphorism has joined