1 2013-04-03 00:00:09 <sipa> and probably 4) signature checks, asynchronously with the rest
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3 2013-04-03 00:00:41 <sipa> 1+2 are now done together, and 3+4 too
4 2013-04-03 00:00:48 <sipa> headers first means separating 1 and 2
5 2013-04-03 00:01:02 <phantomcircuit> i meant more that there's two distinct modes for doing validation
6 2013-04-03 00:01:24 <phantomcircuit> but i guess you could actually break down each of those steps into it's own miniture validating step
7 2013-04-03 00:01:50 ocminer has quit (Quit: ocminer)
8 2013-04-03 00:01:53 <phantomcircuit> the primary distinction i was making was between validating all the transactions in all the blocks and validating only the transactions in the block that you care about
9 2013-04-03 00:02:00 <sipa> right
10 2013-04-03 00:02:33 <phantomcircuit> with the first you're relying on someone else to have validating all the transactions
11 2013-04-03 00:02:46 * BlueMatt wonders what the total cpupower currently dedicated to skein1024 is
12 2013-04-03 00:02:56 <sipa> haha
13 2013-04-03 00:03:02 zylche has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
14 2013-04-03 00:03:18 <sipa> BlueMatt: should be easy to calculate from the result :)
15 2013-04-03 00:03:23 <sipa> well, estimate
16 2013-04-03 00:04:01 * BlueMatt ponders porting it to cuda and running it in the graphics lab
17 2013-04-03 00:04:05 andkore has quit (Read error: No route to host)
18 2013-04-03 00:04:07 <BlueMatt> then we'd win
19 2013-04-03 00:04:17 <BlueMatt> also, bitcoin.org is at 399 :)
20 2013-04-03 00:04:26 <phantomcircuit> 399 on what?
21 2013-04-03 00:04:34 <BlueMatt> http://almamater.xkcd.com/best.csv
22 2013-04-03 00:04:40 <BlueMatt> 399 bits off the target randall set
23 2013-04-03 00:05:36 <jgarzik> "About an hour and half ago I transferred a total of 25 btc, two transactions one for 10 and one for 15 from an online wallet to my desktop wallet. I checked blockchain.info and saw the first 10 btc transaction in the block. Both transactions are showing in my cllent, but after an hour and half there are still zero confirmations and when I go to blockchain.info for the address. It shows 0 transactions. This seems odd to
24 2013-04-03 00:05:36 <jgarzik> me, or am I being paranoid."
25 2013-04-03 00:05:43 <jgarzik> which means
26 2013-04-03 00:05:59 stretchwarren has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
27 2013-04-03 00:05:59 <jgarzik> You Are A Dev, You Must Support Every Bitcoin User Individually. For Free.
28 2013-04-03 00:06:10 <Diablo-D3> lol
29 2013-04-03 00:06:15 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, so basically a contest to get the skein1024 hash closest to the one provided?
30 2013-04-03 00:06:20 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: yes
31 2013-04-03 00:06:28 <Diablo-D3> you know what I do to people like that?
32 2013-04-03 00:06:31 <Diablo-D3> Ignore them
33 2013-04-03 00:06:45 <phantomcircuit> im guessing not very much given that "wat" is 504 bits off which is better than some of the ones in "best.csv"
34 2013-04-03 00:07:15 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: its a 1024 bit hash, so anyone above like 450 didnt even bother trying
35 2013-04-03 00:07:35 <jgarzik> Diablo-D3: yeah, pretty much
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38 2013-04-03 00:07:52 <kermit_> 117.99
39 2013-04-03 00:07:53 <kermit_> shit
40 2013-04-03 00:07:56 <kermit_> shit shit shit
41 2013-04-03 00:08:00 hsmithsN7 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
42 2013-04-03 00:08:15 <kermit_> god save us,.., the FED is going to target btc with a freaken nuke
43 2013-04-03 00:08:21 i2pRelay has joined
44 2013-04-03 00:08:24 <Diablo-D3> ha
45 2013-04-03 00:08:28 <Diablo-D3> let them
46 2013-04-03 00:08:39 <Diablo-D3> their death warrant was already signed by the american people
47 2013-04-03 00:08:47 <jgarzik> yawn. #bitcoin please
48 2013-04-03 00:09:21 <kermit_> amercian people
49 2013-04-03 00:09:25 <kermit_> thats a joke
50 2013-04-03 00:09:26 witwit has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
51 2013-04-03 00:09:39 <kermit_> fat harmburger addicted dumbfucks, sheaple
52 2013-04-03 00:09:41 stretchwarren has joined
53 2013-04-03 00:09:49 <Diablo-D3> yeah, fuck you too asshole
54 2013-04-03 00:09:58 <kermit_> selfseeking slaves
55 2013-04-03 00:10:07 <kermit_> slaves seeking slavery
56 2013-04-03 00:10:28 <kermit_> dude
57 2013-04-03 00:11:37 kermit_ has joined
58 2013-04-03 00:11:48 <kermit_> true this is a dev channel
59 2013-04-03 00:12:09 <kermit_> no place for false flagwrapping, agreed
60 2013-04-03 00:12:15 <kermit_> about yasm
61 2013-04-03 00:12:30 <kermit_> I have a problem with a piece of code, anyone into assembler here?
62 2013-04-03 00:14:07 <sipa> BlueMatt: the current leader (384 bits off) must have done some 2^50 hashes to get that
63 2013-04-03 00:14:30 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: at least that email was coherent.
64 2013-04-03 00:14:30 jaequery has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
65 2013-04-03 00:15:01 <gmaxwell> sipa: I am somewhat concerned that someone was able to do 2^50 hashes on _skein_.
66 2013-04-03 00:15:13 Graet has joined
67 2013-04-03 00:15:21 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: in the past 2 days no less
68 2013-04-03 00:15:36 <sipa> hello
69 2013-04-03 00:15:36 <sipa> I read some information about bitcoin, said to close the Currency, is that true?
70 2013-04-03 00:15:41 jaequery has joined
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72 2013-04-03 00:15:57 <kermit_> sipa, link?
73 2013-04-03 00:16:05 <sipa> kermit_: to?
74 2013-04-03 00:16:15 hkjdskjf has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
75 2013-04-03 00:16:17 <kermit_> take it "close the currency"?
76 2013-04-03 00:16:21 i2pRelay has joined
77 2013-04-03 00:16:23 <kermit_> your quote
78 2013-04-03 00:16:26 <sipa> that's a mail i got
79 2013-04-03 00:16:29 <gmaxwell> "So, It talks, right?"
80 2013-04-03 00:16:34 <jgarzik> ;p
81 2013-04-03 00:16:40 <kermit_> can you put it on pastebin?
82 2013-04-03 00:16:52 macboz has joined
83 2013-04-03 00:17:08 <sipa> it's already in the irc logs by now :)
84 2013-04-03 00:17:15 <sipa> (that was the _whole_ mail)
85 2013-04-03 00:17:26 <BlueMatt> oh god
86 2013-04-03 00:17:27 <kermit_> frack, I cant click it
87 2013-04-03 00:17:33 jaequery has quit (Client Quit)
88 2013-04-03 00:17:51 <kermit_> me amos chatzilla
89 2013-04-03 00:18:01 <sipa> what do you want to achieve by clicking on a sentence?
90 2013-04-03 00:18:23 <kermit_> the "whole" word looks like a hyperlink on my IRC client
91 2013-04-03 00:18:33 <sipa> no, i just underlined it
92 2013-04-03 00:18:41 <kermit_> oh, lol
93 2013-04-03 00:18:42 <sipa> you know, emphasis
94 2013-04-03 00:18:50 licnep has joined
95 2013-04-03 00:19:06 <kermit_> ok,.well, so you think someone whants to close the currency?
96 2013-04-03 00:19:59 rdymac has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
97 2013-04-03 00:20:15 <gmaxwell> sipa: how do you figure they did 2^50ish queries to get that?
98 2013-04-03 00:20:41 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
99 2013-04-03 00:21:34 <sipa> gmaxwell: the probability of getting less than 384 successes in a bernouilli experiment with p=0.5 and 1024 trials is around 1/2^50
100 2013-04-03 00:22:07 BlackPrapor has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
101 2013-04-03 00:22:15 <sipa> sorry, at most 384
102 2013-04-03 00:22:31 D34TH has joined
103 2013-04-03 00:23:15 <gmaxwell> presumably they've solved the system of linear equations for many queries such that they actually know the exact target now.
104 2013-04-03 00:23:51 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
105 2013-04-03 00:24:17 <Luke-Jr> any reason to prefer IBD on 0.7.x over 0.5.x?
106 2013-04-03 00:24:23 i2pRelay has joined
107 2013-04-03 00:24:32 <sipa> higher checkpoint?
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110 2013-04-03 00:24:58 <Luke-Jr> my local 0.5.x has the May15 checkpoint
111 2013-04-03 00:25:02 <Luke-Jr> err
112 2013-04-03 00:25:05 <Luke-Jr> hardfork*
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151 2013-04-03 00:51:31 <theymos> Are you guys aware that moving an existing wallet to 0.8 sometimes makes some old transactions unconfirmed until a rescan? It happened to me and two other people here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=153035.0
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166 2013-04-03 01:01:05 <sipa> theymos: interesting...
167 2013-04-03 01:02:02 <theymos> For me, it was ~10 seemingly-random transactions from 2010. (I didn't save them, sorry.)
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176 2013-04-03 01:12:06 <phantomcircuit> ima setup this with testnet
177 2013-04-03 01:12:34 i2pRelay has joined
178 2013-04-03 01:13:38 <realazthat> sipa: ping
179 2013-04-03 01:13:41 <sipa> theymos: i don't get it... the code for updating the wallet is exactly the same during reindex as during normal block connection
180 2013-04-03 01:14:00 <sipa> realazthat: yes, sorry, haven't had time to look at your python explorer :(
181 2013-04-03 01:14:16 <realazthat> np
182 2013-04-03 01:14:32 <realazthat> heh I have doubts if you've slept at all for the last 5 days
183 2013-04-03 01:14:34 <realazthat> :P
184 2013-04-03 01:14:45 <sipa> i most certainly did :)
185 2013-04-03 01:15:12 <realazthat> musta felt good to finally do ... that
186 2013-04-03 01:16:22 <nimdAHK> theymos: from a look at the code that makes about 0 sense
187 2013-04-03 01:16:33 <nimdAHK> not saying I don't believe you
188 2013-04-03 01:16:50 <nimdAHK> but wtf
189 2013-04-03 01:17:16 <theymos> sipa, nimdAHK: Yeah, I thought it was something very specific to my setup when it happened to me a few months ago, which is why I didn't report it. But then I saw these two people with the same problem.
190 2013-04-03 01:17:29 <nimdAHK> problem is I can't reproduce it
191 2013-04-03 01:17:37 <nimdAHK> I've been running rescans
192 2013-04-03 01:17:47 <nimdAHK> adding new privkeys with old transactions
193 2013-04-03 01:18:03 <nimdAHK> for the past half hour
194 2013-04-03 01:18:11 pacpac has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
195 2013-04-03 01:18:12 <nimdAHK> changing the wallet.dat
196 2013-04-03 01:18:24 <nimdAHK> and... no bug.
197 2013-04-03 01:18:37 <nimdAHK> I even pseudo-deleted the blockchain
198 2013-04-03 01:18:38 brson has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
199 2013-04-03 01:18:42 <nimdAHK> by renaming the files
200 2013-04-03 01:18:51 <nimdAHK> ran bitcoin for a bit
201 2013-04-03 01:18:57 <nimdAHK> replaced the files
202 2013-04-03 01:19:01 <nimdAHK> no problems.
203 2013-04-03 01:19:01 <sipa> the result was unconfirmed balance remaining, right?
204 2013-04-03 01:19:07 <sipa> which was in fact already spent
205 2013-04-03 01:19:52 <nimdAHK> sipa: that's how I read it
206 2013-04-03 01:20:02 <nimdAHK> or if not spent, at least confirmed
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210 2013-04-03 01:20:42 <theymos> Dunno. They were unconfirmed transactions that I had received. They were listed as unconfirmed in the transactions tab of Bitcoin-Qt and they were reflected in the "Unconfirmed" section of the balance on the overview.
211 2013-04-03 01:21:13 <nimdAHK> but they were actually confirmed, yes?
212 2013-04-03 01:21:16 <nimdAHK> were they all small?
213 2013-04-03 01:21:39 <theymos> They were confirmed. They were not small. They were from 2010, so they were all simple transactions.
214 2013-04-03 01:22:10 <theymos> One unusual thing I did was that the first time I ran 0.8 (and it needed to reindex), I ran it with -rescan.
215 2013-04-03 01:22:51 bwen has left ()
216 2013-04-03 01:22:59 <nimdAHK> urgh
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220 2013-04-03 01:23:33 <nimdAHK> that will take a few days to replicate
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229 2013-04-03 01:30:04 <helo> sipa: txoptim <3
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232 2013-04-03 01:33:44 Uisgdlyast has joined
233 2013-04-03 01:34:22 <helo> 109 connections... i should figure out how many my connection can healthily support
234 2013-04-03 01:35:40 RoboTeddy has joined
235 2013-04-03 01:35:51 <Uisgdlyast> question I didnt want to ask in the other chan... seems like all the crypto currencies are rising, but why are there other coins like lite coin, terra, solid, pp, name.... its confusing
236 2013-04-03 01:36:08 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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238 2013-04-03 01:36:48 <defunctzombie> is there a way to get bitcoind to use less memory?
239 2013-04-03 01:36:56 jkal has joined
240 2013-04-03 01:36:59 <defunctzombie> it consistently uses almost 500 MB on one of my boxes
241 2013-04-03 01:37:00 <helo> Uisgdlyast: it's open source, so anyone can start their own
242 2013-04-03 01:37:28 <theymos> Uisgdlyast: They don't offer anything on top of Bitcoin, so their prices are totally built on speculation. Eventually they'll all be worthless.
243 2013-04-03 01:37:29 da2ce7 has joined
244 2013-04-03 01:37:51 <helo> Uisgdlyast: users have to be pretty careful though... it's really tough to understand the implications of a particular change 0_o
245 2013-04-03 01:37:56 <Uisgdlyast> even btc will be worthless?
246 2013-04-03 01:38:01 gbg has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
247 2013-04-03 01:38:30 zylche has joined
248 2013-04-03 01:38:34 <sipa> defunctzombie: some very recent patches should reduce memory usage
249 2013-04-03 01:38:41 <sipa> especially with many connections
250 2013-04-03 01:38:45 <Uisgdlyast> i think btc was first, its the most known, has the most followers, etc, that it will last and these others might just make a few people a guick buck or lose it
251 2013-04-03 01:39:10 <defunctzombie> sipa: which patches? memory usage is really quite unacceptable for people running small relay nodes :(
252 2013-04-03 01:39:18 <helo> defunctzombie: i was using over a gig with 70 connections, and now it's 280mb with 109 connections :D
253 2013-04-03 01:39:23 gbg has joined
254 2013-04-03 01:39:26 <theymos> Uisgdlyast: Maybe someday if someone figures out how to do everything that Bitcoin does in a better way. But it's been 4 years and no one has done this yet, so I doubt that it'll happen soon.
255 2013-04-03 01:39:29 <Luke-Jr> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK5h4jHd8Ew
256 2013-04-03 01:39:34 <defunctzombie> helo: is this with the patches?
257 2013-04-03 01:39:46 chylee has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
258 2013-04-03 01:39:59 <helo> defunctzombie: it's been merged into the main bitcoin tree now
259 2013-04-03 01:40:22 <defunctzombie> helo: but no new version released?
260 2013-04-03 01:40:41 <sipa> defunctzombie: it was just _written_ a few days ago :)
261 2013-04-03 01:40:52 <defunctzombie> sipa: sure, just asking :)
262 2013-04-03 01:40:53 <helo> defunctzombie: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin has it (and other things... if you want to just pull that change it is https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2409)
263 2013-04-03 01:40:58 <defunctzombie> sipa: not expecting :p
264 2013-04-03 01:41:15 <sipa> it'll likely be in 0.8.2
265 2013-04-03 01:41:26 <sipa> but no guarantee for when that will be
266 2013-04-03 01:41:48 <defunctzombie> gotcha
267 2013-04-03 01:41:49 <defunctzombie> sounds like a build your own type of thing
268 2013-04-03 01:42:02 <helo> it is an incredible difference... it makes connections feel like O(1), memory-wise at least
269 2013-04-03 01:42:16 <defunctzombie> helo: that is good to hear
270 2013-04-03 01:42:18 <sipa> connections can still use something like 1-2 MiB
271 2013-04-03 01:42:25 <defunctzombie> I will try to replace my current one
272 2013-04-03 01:42:32 <sipa> but it used to be that sometimes a connection used 80...
273 2013-04-03 01:42:38 <defunctzombie> I just can't have OOM killer coming around all the time
274 2013-04-03 01:42:43 <defunctzombie> really gets annoying :)
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277 2013-04-03 01:44:23 <defunctzombie> sipa: is the "dist" version for linux just built with the makefile "make"
278 2013-04-03 01:44:32 <defunctzombie> sipa: or are other settings/flags set?
279 2013-04-03 01:44:37 <defunctzombie> iirc the makefile had everything
280 2013-04-03 01:44:43 i2pRelay has joined
281 2013-04-03 01:44:44 <sipa> defunctzombie: no, it's built using gitian in a deterministic virtual machine
282 2013-04-03 01:44:58 <sipa> defunctzombie: but just make -f makefile.unix will get you something useful
283 2013-04-03 01:45:30 t2che has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
284 2013-04-03 01:46:01 <warren> hmm, that guy a few days ago who claimed to find old instawallets probably used the security breach
285 2013-04-03 01:46:25 gaantr2 has joined
286 2013-04-03 01:46:48 <gaantr2> Does anyone know where I can get an aggregate BTC price data feed?
287 2013-04-03 01:47:00 <gmaxwell> sipa: http://almamater.xkcd.com/best.csv See "xiph.org" :P
288 2013-04-03 01:48:03 rdponticelli has joined
289 2013-04-03 01:48:27 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: fucker
290 2013-04-03 01:48:57 <gmaxwell> I have a 408 solution for sale if someone is interest in buying. :P
291 2013-04-03 01:49:11 <gmaxwell> er interested in.
292 2013-04-03 01:49:26 <BlueMatt> heh, selling now?
293 2013-04-03 01:49:32 <sipa> gmaxwell: 2^45 hashes...?
294 2013-04-03 01:49:58 <gmaxwell> sipa: I used very sophicated technology to get that score.
295 2013-04-03 01:49:59 <Uisgdlyast> theymos: but after 4 years I think btc has been so well established, i mean btc atm's are being made so something way advanced would need invention
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298 2013-04-03 01:50:20 <gmaxwell> sipa: it involved a distributed network of many tens of thousand of systems, and thousands of asics...
299 2013-04-03 01:50:27 <sipa> ...
300 2013-04-03 01:50:35 <gmaxwell> (I bought a runner up solution from another team using Bitcoin :P )
301 2013-04-03 01:50:40 <sipa> haha
302 2013-04-03 01:52:13 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
303 2013-04-03 01:52:30 <theymos> Uisgdlyast: Right. Bitcoin has significant first-to-market advantage. It may be possible to compete, though. (But not with trivial Bitcoin mods like litecoin.)
304 2013-04-03 01:52:45 i2pRelay has joined
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307 2013-04-03 01:55:08 <Uisgdlyast> so youre saying ltc isnt a good one to mine? cause its zooming up too
308 2013-04-03 01:55:16 Ashaman has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
309 2013-04-03 01:55:32 Optimus-Prime has quit (Quit: Optimus-Prime)
310 2013-04-03 01:57:11 <theymos> Uisgdlyast: Go ahead and mine if it's profitable, but I wouldn't invest at all.
311 2013-04-03 01:58:08 Optimus-Prime has joined
312 2013-04-03 01:59:12 <Uisgdlyast> that makes sense... mine if profitable but dont use it to invest
313 2013-04-03 01:59:58 <Uisgdlyast> confusing... sounds like i'd make more with ltc right now so I might go that way until I can take up a big enough college loan to get an ASIC's set up
314 2013-04-03 02:00:15 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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316 2013-04-03 02:01:43 kermit_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
317 2013-04-03 02:01:57 noah_ has joined
318 2013-04-03 02:02:11 <theymos> By the time you can get an ASIC they probably won't be very profitable.
319 2013-04-03 02:03:02 jaequery has joined
320 2013-04-03 02:05:19 manet_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
321 2013-04-03 02:05:44 <Uisgdlyast> why?
322 2013-04-03 02:05:46 Casimir1904 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
323 2013-04-03 02:05:52 aliljet has left ()
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327 2013-04-03 02:10:59 jaequery has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
328 2013-04-03 02:11:23 <theymos> Uisgdlyast: Many people will get ASICs before you and difficulty will increase enormously.
329 2013-04-03 02:13:58 <defunctzombie> gavinandresen: when you gonna come visit nyc again?
330 2013-04-03 02:15:08 <jgarzik> When the New York subway takes bitcoins!
331 2013-04-03 02:15:19 <defunctzombie> jgarzik: I wish
332 2013-04-03 02:15:29 <defunctzombie> jgarzik: although I rather like my metro card :)
333 2013-04-03 02:15:53 <Uisgdlyast> well I get college loans in the fall... so I can get some kind of ASICs then.. and if I trick myself out to enough older men an even better one
334 2013-04-03 02:16:18 <defunctzombie> jgarzik: you live nearby too iirc
335 2013-04-03 02:16:18 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
336 2013-04-03 02:16:49 i2pRelay has joined
337 2013-04-03 02:17:17 <jgarzik> defunctzombie: if you call 'east coast' nearby :)
338 2013-04-03 02:17:21 <jgarzik> Raleigh, NC
339 2013-04-03 02:17:37 * jgarzik took the train to the 2011 bitcoin conf
340 2013-04-03 02:18:01 _g has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
341 2013-04-03 02:18:12 <defunctzombie> jgarzik: wow.. I didn't know people took trains that far
342 2013-04-03 02:18:29 Davincij15 has joined
343 2013-04-03 02:18:34 Liquid3xB has quit (Quit: Leaving)
344 2013-04-03 02:18:34 tockitj has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
345 2013-04-03 02:19:27 <jgarzik> defunctzombie: I'm a railfan. ~12 hours. Great break for hacking and book reading.
346 2013-04-03 02:19:55 XertroV has joined
347 2013-04-03 02:20:17 <defunctzombie> jgarzik: huh, not bad... might have to try it one day
348 2013-04-03 02:20:27 Liquid3xB has joined
349 2013-04-03 02:20:37 <defunctzombie> jgarzik: you doing to bitcoin 2013 out west?
350 2013-04-03 02:20:41 <jgarzik> yep
351 2013-04-03 02:20:46 <defunctzombie> excellent
352 2013-04-03 02:20:52 drapetomano_ has joined
353 2013-04-03 02:21:03 <defunctzombie> I am pretty excited about it. Get to meet many more peeps
354 2013-04-03 02:21:07 <defunctzombie> that I haven't seen in a while
355 2013-04-03 02:21:28 <defunctzombie> and San Fran area will be a lot of fun
356 2013-04-03 02:21:50 <dtmfx> Eliel: I backed up my wallet, removed all transactions then did a rescan and it finally cleared out the bad transactions and gave me back my unspent 22.6 btc that was sitting unconfirmed
357 2013-04-03 02:22:29 paraipan has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
358 2013-04-03 02:23:38 <defunctzombie> jgarzik: how is that asic miner doing?
359 2013-04-03 02:24:09 mrjack_ has joined
360 2013-04-03 02:24:19 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
361 2013-04-03 02:24:51 i2pRelay has joined
362 2013-04-03 02:25:01 <jgarzik> defunctzombie: well San Jose, but basically the same thing. :) San Jose is on the smelly side of the bay, IIRC.
363 2013-04-03 02:25:44 <defunctzombie> jgarzik: it is all very close
364 2013-04-03 02:25:45 <jgarzik> defunctzombie: Still alive and kickin' Of course nowhere near the thousands of bitcoins I had in years past sadly ;p
365 2013-04-03 02:25:55 <defunctzombie> heh
366 2013-04-03 02:26:08 <defunctzombie> jgarzik: did you put some away for your baby? :D
367 2013-04-03 02:26:51 <defunctzombie> I am really hoping bfl ships something soon, wanted to get the tiny one for my parents as a novelty
368 2013-04-03 02:27:06 jaequery has joined
369 2013-04-03 02:27:11 <defunctzombie> couldn't do the avalon one as it is not really a "desk toy" heh
370 2013-04-03 02:28:00 <noah_> Question about bitcoind: Just learning to use it. I understand how to use an RPC call to query the latest block number, etc. But I would ideally like to be notified somehow when a new block is available. Sure, I could have a loop that polls every second, but that seems very wasteful. Is there an easy way to get some kind of output ore message when a block is there??
371 2013-04-03 02:28:01 <jgarzik> very loud desk toy
372 2013-04-03 02:28:15 mrjack has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
373 2013-04-03 02:28:18 mouseofthesteppe has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
374 2013-04-03 02:28:31 <jgarzik> noah_: -blocknotify=/program/to/run
375 2013-04-03 02:28:32 <defunctzombie> noah_: iirc there is a flag when you launch it to run a script for new blocks
376 2013-04-03 02:28:40 <defunctzombie> that
377 2013-04-03 02:28:50 pacpac has joined
378 2013-04-03 02:28:56 <defunctzombie> noah_: I will also note that polling is not such a terrible thing to start
379 2013-04-03 02:29:03 <defunctzombie> noah_: you can poll for latest blocks only
380 2013-04-03 02:29:20 <noah_> Interesting.
381 2013-04-03 02:29:22 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
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384 2013-04-03 02:30:12 Lexx__ has joined
385 2013-04-03 02:30:12 <noah_> Still now clear on how to find the "latest" block. If I send a "getInfo" command, I get output that includes "blocks":203380 So, can I assume that is the latest block number?
386 2013-04-03 02:30:23 <CodeShark> you can also do "getblockcount"
387 2013-04-03 02:31:05 <noah_> Would those return the same number?
388 2013-04-03 02:31:21 <CodeShark> they should
389 2013-04-03 02:31:38 <sipa> yes
390 2013-04-03 02:32:08 <noah_> Just verified, that it does :)
391 2013-04-03 02:32:20 drapetomano_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
392 2013-04-03 02:32:21 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
393 2013-04-03 02:32:24 <lianj> sipa: [227238, 14749897, 30618105, 34373011], indeed the last ~30k doubled tx count ^^
394 2013-04-03 02:32:40 <noah_> Is there any kind of timestamp to know when the block hash was generated?
395 2013-04-03 02:32:51 <CodeShark> blocks have a timestamp field
396 2013-04-03 02:32:53 i2pRelay has joined
397 2013-04-03 02:32:54 <noah_> IOW - was it generated 1 second ago, or 60 seconds ago
398 2013-04-03 02:32:55 <CodeShark> but it isn't absolute
399 2013-04-03 02:33:21 <sipa> it can be up to 2h wrong
400 2013-04-03 02:33:50 <noah_> Ohhh.
401 2013-04-03 02:33:59 Lexx_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
402 2013-04-03 02:34:05 Noted has joined
403 2013-04-03 02:34:09 <noah_> Thinking about some services that rely on a random number based on the "latest" block hash.
404 2013-04-03 02:34:26 <noah_> Problem is that there could be a race condition if I don't know how old the latest one is
405 2013-04-03 02:34:27 <CodeShark> ?
406 2013-04-03 02:34:41 ielo has joined
407 2013-04-03 02:35:09 <CodeShark> bitcoin does not rely on the latest timestamp - it relies on most difficult chain
408 2013-04-03 02:35:19 <noah_> Right.
409 2013-04-03 02:36:28 viperhr1 has joined
410 2013-04-03 02:36:35 <noah_> This is *not* what I'm doing, but for the sake of illustration. Lets say we want to run a new version of dice. We use the hash of the latest block to be the "roll" of the dice. If the block came out 60 seconds ago, someone faster than us could see it and then place a bet with inside knowledge. So, we would ideally like to know a cutoff so that we won't accept those illegal bets.
411 2013-04-03 02:36:57 <CodeShark> don't use that to roll the dice :p
412 2013-04-03 02:37:20 <CodeShark> instead generate a random number and send a hash to the user before the roll, let the user submit a random number of their own
413 2013-04-03 02:37:24 <CodeShark> use both numbers to roll the dice
414 2013-04-03 02:37:32 <CodeShark> then provide the user with your random number after the roll
415 2013-04-03 02:37:41 <noah_> Clearly. Just a fictitious example
416 2013-04-03 02:37:41 <CodeShark> since you gave them the hash of your random number, it proves you didn't cheat
417 2013-04-03 02:37:45 <Diablo-D3> CodeShark: nope
418 2013-04-03 02:37:50 <Diablo-D3> because then I can just guess your rng
419 2013-04-03 02:37:50 <CodeShark> ?
420 2013-04-03 02:37:59 xretsim1 has joined
421 2013-04-03 02:38:06 <noah_> RNG choice is a whole other issue!
422 2013-04-03 02:38:09 <CodeShark> guess my rng?
423 2013-04-03 02:38:10 Guest28591 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
424 2013-04-03 02:38:10 <noah_> That's messy.
425 2013-04-03 02:38:21 <noah_> Was hoping to rely on latest hash as source of RNG
426 2013-04-03 02:38:29 <sipa> noah_: hashes are not random
427 2013-04-03 02:38:32 <sipa> noah_: or not entirely
428 2013-04-03 02:38:40 <Diablo-D3> they are not random oracles
429 2013-04-03 02:38:49 <sipa> noah_: as soon as high stakes would be involved, miners can start influencing them
430 2013-04-03 02:38:50 <noah_> But can you predict them (short of mining the whole thing.)
431 2013-04-03 02:39:00 <sipa> no, you can control them
432 2013-04-03 02:39:03 <noah_> Interesting. So not a reliable source of entropy
433 2013-04-03 02:39:06 <sipa> with enough hashpower
434 2013-04-03 02:39:21 <CodeShark> there are many other better sources of entropy, methinks
435 2013-04-03 02:39:35 <noah_> Guess we'll use the number of hummingbird wings fluttering within 0.564 KM of a randomly chosen point on the globe.
436 2013-04-03 02:39:42 [\\\] has joined
437 2013-04-03 02:39:50 <CodeShark> are you talking about finding a good entropy source/RNG? or about a protocol for proving the dice roll is fair?
438 2013-04-03 02:39:55 * sipa releases hummingbird poison
439 2013-04-03 02:39:57 <CodeShark> these are two separate problems
440 2013-04-03 02:40:04 viperhr has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
441 2013-04-03 02:40:12 <CodeShark> don't kill the hummingbirds!
442 2013-04-03 02:40:17 <noah_> @sipa: :)
443 2013-04-03 02:40:20 <noah_> both
444 2013-04-03 02:40:22 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
445 2013-04-03 02:40:36 <noah_> Would need good RNG and also proof
446 2013-04-03 02:40:41 <CodeShark> I think the suggestion I made works fine for the second problem assuming you have a good solution to the first
447 2013-04-03 02:40:49 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
448 2013-04-03 02:40:54 i2pRelay has joined
449 2013-04-03 02:41:19 <noah_> CodeShark: Your idea seems valid. Giving out the hash shouldn't compromise anyting
450 2013-04-03 02:43:04 MWNinja has joined
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464 2013-04-03 02:49:35 <jgarzik> man
465 2013-04-03 02:49:42 SvenDiagram has joined
466 2013-04-03 02:49:50 <jgarzik> I need a picture of a roulette table's "history" display
467 2013-04-03 02:49:59 <jgarzik> it's a great illustration of a common bitcoin mining fallacy
468 2013-04-03 02:50:26 <k9quaint> there are mining fallacies?
469 2013-04-03 02:50:30 Jere_Jones has joined
470 2013-04-03 02:50:34 bernard75 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
471 2013-04-03 02:50:48 <k9quaint> or you are mining fallacies
472 2013-04-03 02:51:57 <k9quaint> noah_: if you have a random point on the globe, why do you need entropy?
473 2013-04-03 02:52:17 helo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
474 2013-04-03 02:52:24 <noah_> Ahhh - that's part of the secret we can't share. Otherwise you'll someone will poison the hummingbirds
475 2013-04-03 02:53:22 MobTablet has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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485 2013-04-03 02:59:07 <defunctzombie> jgarzik: do you know what env vars that blockscript gets executed with?
486 2013-04-03 02:59:28 noah_ has quit (Quit: noah_)
487 2013-04-03 02:59:33 <jgarzik> defunctzombie: same as bitcoind. bitcoind does not clear the env, IIRC
488 2013-04-03 02:59:39 <defunctzombie> gotcha
489 2013-04-03 03:02:10 grau has joined
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491 2013-04-03 03:04:58 i2pRelay has joined
492 2013-04-03 03:05:36 xretsim1 has quit (Quit: xretsim1)
493 2013-04-03 03:07:31 vigilyn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
494 2013-04-03 03:07:45 vigilyn has joined
495 2013-04-03 03:08:19 <defunctzombie> what should I copy with the 0.8.x line if I just want to copy over the blockchain to bootstrap a new client?
496 2013-04-03 03:08:25 <defunctzombie> blocks folder and chainstate folder?
497 2013-04-03 03:09:57 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
498 2013-04-03 03:10:03 <defunctzombie> or is blocks enough?
499 2013-04-03 03:11:56 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
500 2013-04-03 03:12:15 ActiveMember has joined
501 2013-04-03 03:12:18 <ActiveMember> hey
502 2013-04-03 03:12:29 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
503 2013-04-03 03:12:39 <ActiveMember> can someoneone please explain to me why this transaction is taking light years to get confirmations.....
504 2013-04-03 03:12:40 <ActiveMember> <ActiveMember> hey
505 2013-04-03 03:12:40 <ActiveMember> <ActiveMember> i sent it like i normally do
506 2013-04-03 03:12:40 <ActiveMember> <ActiveMember> through bitcoin qt
507 2013-04-03 03:12:41 <ActiveMember> <ActiveMember> Status: 0/unconfirmed, broadcast through 8 nodes
508 2013-04-03 03:12:41 <ActiveMember> <ActiveMember> Date: 02/04/2013 20:58
509 2013-04-03 03:12:41 <ActiveMember> <ActiveMember> To: virtex newesst 1EoURKdW7BY2Qp3A2XSJWJRhhB3daqxqDH
510 2013-04-03 03:12:41 <ActiveMember> <ActiveMember> Debit: -4.08 BTC
511 2013-04-03 03:12:41 <ActiveMember> <ActiveMember> Net amount: -4.08 BTC
512 2013-04-03 03:13:01 i2pRelay has joined
513 2013-04-03 03:13:09 MWNinja has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
514 2013-04-03 03:14:21 <jgarzik> ActiveMember: I think blocks are full
515 2013-04-03 03:14:39 <jgarzik> ActiveMember: I have a transaction that has taken > 1 hour to confirm, too
516 2013-04-03 03:14:53 <jgarzik> to be specific, zero confirmations in 90 minutes for > 6 BTC
517 2013-04-03 03:14:57 <PRab> ActiveMember: No fee. Miners get to choose what blocks to include and right now they are favoring blocks that include a fee.
518 2013-04-03 03:15:27 <PRab> jgarzik answer is more complete.
519 2013-04-03 03:17:03 Goonie_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
520 2013-04-03 03:17:37 <PRab> http://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions
521 2013-04-03 03:18:22 Michail1 is now known as Michail1_
522 2013-04-03 03:20:31 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
523 2013-04-03 03:21:02 i2pRelay has joined
524 2013-04-03 03:21:10 <jgarzik> BTC Guild is clearing out the queue :)
525 2013-04-03 03:21:12 <jgarzik> 1 confirm.
526 2013-04-03 03:21:30 <ActiveMember> ok
527 2013-04-03 03:21:50 <jgarzik> Took at least 7 blocks for my 6 BTC tx to gain a single confirmation.
528 2013-04-03 03:22:08 <jgarzik> Looks like I need to stop being lazy, and add a fee :)
529 2013-04-03 03:22:13 dust-otc has joined
530 2013-04-03 03:23:06 normanrichards has joined
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533 2013-04-03 03:28:39 <helo> there's a scumbag meme in there somewhere :P
534 2013-04-03 03:28:56 <defunctzombie> the fee thing is still a mystery to me
535 2013-04-03 03:29:03 i2pRelay has joined
536 2013-04-03 03:29:15 <defunctzombie> as for what reasonable fees are
537 2013-04-03 03:29:21 <defunctzombie> or what pools want
538 2013-04-03 03:29:30 <jgarzik> defunctzombie: (1) transactions sorted by fee-per-KB, (2) blocks filled with highest fees first
539 2013-04-03 03:29:57 <defunctzombie> hm
540 2013-04-03 03:30:02 <defunctzombie> you know what might be useful
541 2013-04-03 03:30:09 <defunctzombie> a rest api endpoint listing the minfee
542 2013-04-03 03:30:11 <jgarzik> defunctzombie: so absent a minimum fee required to send dust (tiny bitcoin amounts), if a block is not full, fee is minimal
543 2013-04-03 03:30:26 <jgarzik> defunctzombie: ideally, the software needs to figure out a recommendation for the user
544 2013-04-03 03:30:27 <defunctzombie> if you want to be in this block
545 2013-04-03 03:30:28 Ashaman has joined
546 2013-04-03 03:30:30 <defunctzombie> or next one maybe
547 2013-04-03 03:30:32 <defunctzombie> right
548 2013-04-03 03:30:36 <jgarzik> defunctzombie: that's the big missing piece, that hurts users
549 2013-04-03 03:30:43 <defunctzombie> yea
550 2013-04-03 03:30:57 <defunctzombie> every once in a while I get emails about transactions that take a while to confirm as a result
551 2013-04-03 03:31:56 Ashaman has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
552 2013-04-03 03:32:38 <PRab> defunctzombie: There are 2 things that need improvement. 1. Better/more obvious recommendations on transaction fees and their effect. 2. Better/more obvious way to speed up transactions that are "stuck".
553 2013-04-03 03:33:02 <PRab> Both of these have solutions at varying levels of completion.
554 2013-04-03 03:33:19 <jgarzik> where "varying" == llittle to no code :)
555 2013-04-03 03:33:33 <jgarzik> but thankfully the solutions have been talked-through
556 2013-04-03 03:33:39 <PRab> exactly.
557 2013-04-03 03:34:26 <PRab> and if I'm not mistaken there is at least 1 pool that has implemented child pays tx fee for parent.
558 2013-04-03 03:34:42 <sipa> eligius, i suppose
559 2013-04-03 03:36:02 <PRab> one of these days I'll start poking the bitcoin source code, but I haven't gotten to that point yet.
560 2013-04-03 03:36:28 <ProfMac> I type what I think is a correct > bitcoind lockunspent true [{"txid":"blah blah blah", "vout": 0}] and I get Error Parsin JSON.
561 2013-04-03 03:36:31 Ashaman has joined
562 2013-04-03 03:36:32 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
563 2013-04-03 03:36:56 Darin has joined
564 2013-04-03 03:37:02 <sipa> put the [...] between ''
565 2013-04-03 03:37:04 i2pRelay has joined
566 2013-04-03 03:37:40 <ProfMac> sipa, tested, worked, thanks.
567 2013-04-03 03:38:34 _sgstair has joined
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570 2013-04-03 03:38:41 Michail1_ is now known as Michail1
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573 2013-04-03 03:39:51 nowan has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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576 2013-04-03 03:41:32 <Luke-Jr> we should make unit tests for the pulltester..
577 2013-04-03 03:41:34 <Luke-Jr> :P
578 2013-04-03 03:41:52 <Luke-Jr> (though I did seriously come to this thought as I realized I ignore it after so many false results :/)
579 2013-04-03 03:42:17 <Luke-Jr> PRab: my "eligius" bitcoind tags have that usually
580 2013-04-03 03:42:29 zooko has joined
581 2013-04-03 03:42:30 * Luke-Jr should rename that branch to "mining" or "miner" now, I suppose
582 2013-04-03 03:43:03 Brizzo has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
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585 2013-04-03 03:45:06 i2pRelay has joined
586 2013-04-03 03:45:21 <cryptorific> do all avalon systems show the same message on http:80 noatime,commit=60,noauto_da_alloc,journal_async_commit rootflags=data=writeback,nobh
587 2013-04-03 03:48:10 manet has joined
588 2013-04-03 03:49:14 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: pong
589 2013-04-03 03:52:34 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
590 2013-04-03 03:52:48 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: what did you think of CuteCoin for a name btw?
591 2013-04-03 03:53:06 i2pRelay has joined
592 2013-04-03 03:53:09 fishfishclone has joined
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594 2013-04-03 03:53:39 Ogig has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
595 2013-04-03 03:53:43 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: it's very... cute
596 2013-04-03 03:53:54 <wumpus> not against it though :)
597 2013-04-03 03:54:01 berni23 is now known as bernard75
598 2013-04-03 03:54:36 <wumpus> but I' m not sure the first thing that comes to mind when they open bitcoin is, cute :P
599 2013-04-03 03:54:36 duckybsd has joined
600 2013-04-03 03:55:08 <lianj> while initial sync it should be called buttcoin
601 2013-04-03 03:55:13 <wumpus> hehe
602 2013-04-03 03:55:13 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: I was thinking we could almost distort the Qt4 Dance to sound like CuteCoin! :P
603 2013-04-03 03:56:01 <wumpus> uh oh :P
604 2013-04-03 03:56:43 fishfish has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
605 2013-04-03 03:56:50 <wumpus> cutecoin also sounds a bit like an altcoin, but the coins should have hearts on them and be purple
606 2013-04-03 03:57:34 kermit_ has joined
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608 2013-04-03 03:58:19 twobitcoins_ has joined
609 2013-04-03 04:00:13 <gmaxwell> cutebit
610 2013-04-03 04:00:36 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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614 2013-04-03 04:04:24 a5m0 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
615 2013-04-03 04:04:39 nimdAHK_ has joined
616 2013-04-03 04:04:48 Noted has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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618 2013-04-03 04:05:48 Noted has joined
619 2013-04-03 04:07:34 nimdAHK has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
620 2013-04-03 04:08:31 <ActiveMember> yo guys, still??????????????
621 2013-04-03 04:08:33 <ActiveMember> Status: 0/unconfirmed, broadcast through 8 nodes
622 2013-04-03 04:08:33 <ActiveMember> Date: 02/04/2013 20:58
623 2013-04-03 04:08:33 <ActiveMember> To: virtex newesst 1EoURKdW7BY2Qp3A2XSJWJRhhB3daqxqDH
624 2013-04-03 04:08:33 <ActiveMember> Debit: -4.08 BTC
625 2013-04-03 04:08:33 <ActiveMember> Net amount: -4.08 BTC
626 2013-04-03 04:08:33 <ActiveMember> Transaction ID: bd174d00ada52fd57e55069bdfc3a7d378e78d4c30399681cfb8924eb1519448
627 2013-04-03 04:08:37 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
628 2013-04-03 04:09:09 i2pRelay has joined
629 2013-04-03 04:10:36 nowan has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
630 2013-04-03 04:10:38 <jchp> People have been waiting for half a day to a full day or even more for no-fee (but still valid/broadcasting) transactions to process
631 2013-04-03 04:10:57 <jchp> ActiveMember: https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions
632 2013-04-03 04:11:12 <Luke-Jr> jchp: complain to your local mining pool that they should filter out DP spam
633 2013-04-03 04:11:41 <ActiveMember> that sucks ass
634 2013-04-03 04:11:46 john5223 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
635 2013-04-03 04:11:47 <ActiveMember> :>
636 2013-04-03 04:11:58 <ActiveMember> price of btc is good though i must say
637 2013-04-03 04:12:01 <ActiveMember> :>
638 2013-04-03 04:12:10 <jchp> Luke-Jr: haha yeah, i was just replying to ActiveMember, i think it's worse today? i haven't been keeping track
639 2013-04-03 04:12:50 nimdAHK_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
640 2013-04-03 04:14:06 <lolant> God this is awfull
641 2013-04-03 04:14:14 D34TH has quit (Quit: Leaving)
642 2013-04-03 04:14:17 <lolant> 40GB left untill I can try my decryption code
643 2013-04-03 04:14:21 manet_ has joined
644 2013-04-03 04:14:26 <lolant> if it is correct I can have 160 btc
645 2013-04-03 04:14:35 <jchp> Luke-Jr: if your pool offered a 0.01 charge to guarantee a tranaction, i bet people would pay ;-) often times people are waiting for funds to receive and can't rebroadcast a transaction
646 2013-04-03 04:14:46 <jchp> guarantee a transaction in the next block i mean
647 2013-04-03 04:14:56 bitcoiner has joined
648 2013-04-03 04:15:50 <Luke-Jr> jchp: I'd bet any transaction with 0.01 fee would confirm in Eligius's next block
649 2013-04-03 04:15:57 <realazthat> sipa: hey, should I use JS?
650 2013-04-03 04:15:57 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
651 2013-04-03 04:16:01 nowan has joined
652 2013-04-03 04:16:03 <Luke-Jr> no pool can guarantee the *next* block universally
653 2013-04-03 04:16:04 <jchp> Luke-Jr: people can't adjust fees if they're receiving funds though
654 2013-04-03 04:16:15 <jchp> i meant next on your pool yeah
655 2013-04-03 04:16:23 <Luke-Jr> jchp: well, they can.. just Bitcoin-Qt doesn't support it
656 2013-04-03 04:16:39 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
657 2013-04-03 04:16:43 kermit_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
658 2013-04-03 04:17:11 i2pRelay has joined
659 2013-04-03 04:17:30 <jchp> you can if you are the sender or can convince the sender to do it, right?
660 2013-04-03 04:18:25 manet has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
661 2013-04-03 04:19:40 <Luke-Jr> jchp: it's harder for the sender to change it
662 2013-04-03 04:21:58 <helo> anyone happen to have a listening node running in rackspace's dallas data center?
663 2013-04-03 04:22:00 <jchp> really? i thought if you were the one receiving coins, you can't just jam in a fee because standard transactions sign the entire txout?
664 2013-04-03 04:22:15 Can-o-Bliss has joined
665 2013-04-03 04:22:30 <gmaxwell> jchp: you spend the unconfirmed input with a higher fee and eligius will consider them as a group.
666 2013-04-03 04:22:42 <jchp> oh i didn't know that!
667 2013-04-03 04:22:52 kermit_ has joined
668 2013-04-03 04:22:57 <jchp> that's interesting behavior, is eligius the only one that does that?
669 2013-04-03 04:23:11 <gmaxwell> As far as I know.
670 2013-04-03 04:23:21 <jchp> that's really cool and a crazy-good solution
671 2013-04-03 04:24:14 <Luke-Jr> no, at least EclipseMC also runs the "eligius" codebase
672 2013-04-03 04:24:41 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
673 2013-04-03 04:24:52 <jchp> thanks, i'll be sure to mention it whenever someone else runs across this as a problem, i've always assumed you just either had to rebroadcast or wait it out
674 2013-04-03 04:25:13 i2pRelay has joined
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678 2013-04-03 04:29:39 abueesp has joined
679 2013-04-03 04:30:41 <muhoo> will clients let you spend unconfirmed inputs?
680 2013-04-03 04:31:26 <gmaxwell> In the reference client you can do so via the raw transactions api.
681 2013-04-03 04:31:28 <muhoo> bitcoinj won't. pretty sure the qt client won't either
682 2013-04-03 04:31:56 <gmaxwell> otherwise it will only spend its own unconfirmed outputs.
683 2013-04-03 04:32:27 Optimus-Prime has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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687 2013-04-03 04:35:19 Ashaman has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
688 2013-04-03 04:35:50 Can-o-Bliss has joined
689 2013-04-03 04:36:16 <ThomasV> gmaxwell: you mean eligius implements a "pay for parent" policy on fees?
690 2013-04-03 04:36:53 Namworld has quit ()
691 2013-04-03 04:37:10 <gmaxwell> Yes.
692 2013-04-03 04:37:32 <Luke-Jr> ThomasV: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1647
693 2013-04-03 04:37:48 <ThomasV> nice
694 2013-04-03 04:37:57 Swappermall has joined
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707 2013-04-03 04:46:07 <jspilman> sipa, still thinking about pubkey validation. I was just playing with making typos when entering pubkeys using addmultisig, and definitely it will accept addresses with typos. I'm not sure if that means the EC validation isn't being done, or if it's easier than expected to mistype a valid pubkey, but naive guess would be the former
708 2013-04-03 04:46:29 <jspilman> sometimes you will get a 'invalid public key' sometimes it will take it
709 2013-04-03 04:46:51 <jspilman> seems about 50/50
710 2013-04-03 04:47:06 Darin has joined
711 2013-04-03 04:47:06 <jspilman> just incrementing the hex value of one of the pubkeys
712 2013-04-03 04:47:07 <CodeShark> EC validation is not necessary to check whether an address is valid
713 2013-04-03 04:47:11 <gmaxwell> jspilman: most values are valid pubkeys, at least for compressed pubkeys.
714 2013-04-03 04:47:16 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: he's not entering addresses.
715 2013-04-03 04:47:23 KREWGRL93 has joined
716 2013-04-03 04:47:42 <jspilman> gmaxwell - that's unfortunate, for killing coins with typos anyway
717 2013-04-03 04:47:48 <CodeShark> oh, you mean it doesn't check whether the pubkey is a point on the curve?
718 2013-04-03 04:47:54 <jspilman> it does
719 2013-04-03 04:48:07 <jspilman> but apparently it's not such a strict check
720 2013-04-03 04:48:16 <CodeShark> lol - it's a very strict equation
721 2013-04-03 04:48:20 <gmaxwell> jspilman: why do you say its not a strict check??
722 2013-04-03 04:48:24 <CodeShark> y^2 = x^3 + 7
723 2013-04-03 04:48:28 <jspilman> well, then the code is bugged
724 2013-04-03 04:48:29 <CodeShark> mod p
725 2013-04-03 04:48:42 <CodeShark> there are exactly two y solutions that solve it for a given x
726 2013-04-03 04:48:46 <jspilman> this is supposed to check point on curve: if (!vchPubKey.IsValid() || !pubkeys[i].SetPubKey(vchPubKey))
727 2013-04-03 04:48:47 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
728 2013-04-03 04:48:49 <gmaxwell> jspilman: MOST VALUES ARE VALID COMPRESSED PUBLIC KEYS
729 2013-04-03 04:48:55 <jspilman> rpcwallet.cpp:751
730 2013-04-03 04:48:57 <CodeShark> oh, compressed pubkeyw
731 2013-04-03 04:49:03 <CodeShark> in that case you only get one coordinate
732 2013-04-03 04:49:05 kalleboo_ has joined
733 2013-04-03 04:49:06 pacpac has joined
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735 2013-04-03 04:49:15 <CodeShark> then yes, there's no way to check it's correct
736 2013-04-03 04:49:19 i2pRelay has joined
737 2013-04-03 04:49:22 <CodeShark> unless we add some sort of checksum
738 2013-04-03 04:49:33 <jspilman> ok then - so not such a strict check! :-)
739 2013-04-03 04:49:44 <gmaxwell> jspilman: it's quite strict, the values are valid!
740 2013-04-03 04:50:08 <gmaxwell> CodeShark: they're pubkeys not addresses. ::shrugs::
741 2013-04-03 04:50:16 <CodeShark> I know, gmaxwell
742 2013-04-03 04:50:24 kalleboo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
743 2013-04-03 04:50:30 <CodeShark> my point is that there's no way to validate them without more info
744 2013-04-03 04:50:34 <gmaxwell> likewise it's also easy to goof up a raw transaction.
745 2013-04-03 04:50:34 nx201 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
746 2013-04-03 04:50:42 <CodeShark> for any x, y^2 = x^3 + 7 has two solutions in the field
747 2013-04-03 04:51:08 <CodeShark> by getting rid of the y, we've lost our ability to check
748 2013-04-03 04:51:18 kalleboo has joined
749 2013-04-03 04:51:46 <CodeShark> it's not a matter of strict checking - it's a matter of algebraic fact
750 2013-04-03 04:52:00 <warren> why wasn't a checksum included? not perfect but would stop most typos
751 2013-04-03 04:52:01 <jspilman> apparently sometimes validateaddress returns the compressed pubkey, and sometimes the uncompressed... gotta check the logic there
752 2013-04-03 04:52:08 nx201 has joined
753 2013-04-03 04:52:23 <gmaxwell> jspilman: an address has exactly one pubkey.
754 2013-04-03 04:52:32 <jspilman> understood
755 2013-04-03 04:52:33 <gmaxwell> warren: because its not an address!
756 2013-04-03 04:52:36 kalleboo_ has quit (Read error: No route to host)
757 2013-04-03 04:52:44 <gmaxwell> jspilman: it returns the correct one.
758 2013-04-03 04:52:53 kalleboo_ has joined
759 2013-04-03 04:53:01 TradeFortress has joined
760 2013-04-03 04:53:06 <warren> gmaxwell: shrug, just remove the checksum when you use it as a key
761 2013-04-03 04:53:08 ivan` has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
762 2013-04-03 04:53:14 <CodeShark> actually, that's not true, gmaxwell - it's a surjective map that's not injective :)
763 2013-04-03 04:53:19 KREWGRL93 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
764 2013-04-03 04:53:22 <canoon> can we do multisig transactions with addresses? it seems like some kind of pubkey address is needed?
765 2013-04-03 04:53:38 ToryJujube has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
766 2013-04-03 04:53:44 <CodeShark> many valid pubkeys will hash to the same address
767 2013-04-03 04:53:52 <CodeShark> but good luck finding an example :)
768 2013-04-03 04:53:52 ToryJujube has joined
769 2013-04-03 04:53:52 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, is it just me or goes the cpu miner in bitcoind not work on testnet?
770 2013-04-03 04:54:08 <phantomcircuit> it's been running for at least 6 hours now without finding a block
771 2013-04-03 04:54:13 <gmaxwell> warren: should it print out values with checksums too?
772 2013-04-03 04:54:16 Leviathanzz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
773 2013-04-03 04:54:24 <phantomcircuit> 2013-04-03 04:28:54 Running BitcoinMiner with 2 transactions in block (381 bytes)
774 2013-04-03 04:54:29 <phantomcircuit> and it's actually running
775 2013-04-03 04:54:31 leviathanbaphz has joined
776 2013-04-03 04:55:15 <jspilman> 'correct one'? I know how point compression works. I just was using validateaddress now and it returned the uncompressed pubkey, yesterday it was gave me compressed version. both times immediately after a 'getnewaddress'. just saying, I'm curious what dictates whether 'validateaddress' gives the compressed or uncompressed version.
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790 2013-04-03 04:57:52 <jspilman> think maybe validateaddress should have a way to force it to returned the uncompressed pubkey?
791 2013-04-03 04:59:34 <jspilman> I guess you could ask for the pubKey AND the address and validate that way. such a mess
792 2013-04-03 04:59:42 twobitcoins_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
793 2013-04-03 05:00:04 <gmaxwell> jspilman: No. You are confused.
794 2013-04-03 05:00:09 <jspilman> about?
795 2013-04-03 05:00:10 twobitcoins_ has joined
796 2013-04-03 05:00:17 <gmaxwell> The uncompressed pubkey is an entirely different key as far as bitcoin is concerned.
797 2013-04-03 05:00:19 JZavala has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
798 2013-04-03 05:00:35 <gmaxwell> You'd have it returning a totally unrelated address.
799 2013-04-03 05:00:49 <gmaxwell> Bitcoin cannot validate something using the uncompressed key with the compressed and vice versa.
800 2013-04-03 05:01:29 <gmaxwell> That a key is compressed or not is a property that goes along with the private key, so that you generate the right public key and address from it.
801 2013-04-03 05:01:50 <gmaxwell> The reference client only generates compressed keys— though old versions only generated uncompressed keys.
802 2013-04-03 05:01:55 <gmaxwell> Making any sense?
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806 2013-04-03 05:03:24 <jspilman> I was saying, if all you can get is the compressed pubKey, if you ask the user for the address of that pubKey as well, you can use the address as a checksum on the compressed pubKey -- yes?
807 2013-04-03 05:04:01 zooko has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
808 2013-04-03 05:04:51 <jaequery> anyone here know of any starter kit for creating an exchange?
809 2013-04-03 05:04:52 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
810 2013-04-03 05:05:13 nx201 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
811 2013-04-03 05:05:24 i2pRelay has joined
812 2013-04-03 05:05:44 <jspilman> if all they can give you is the compressed pubKey, you probably don't want to generate multisig scriptPubKeys from those and tell the user to sign them with a wallet that isn't smart enough to tell the user whether or not any keys in their wallet actually can sign for the multisig (which is all of them right now?)
813 2013-04-03 05:05:50 <gmaxwell> jspilman: yes, you could generate the address from a pubkey (compressed or not isn't really relevant) and use that to double check— but what are you doing?
814 2013-04-03 05:06:22 <jspilman> without some way to be high confident that the pubKey that they pasted over to you is actually correct
815 2013-04-03 05:06:32 <gmaxwell> you certantly don't want to use an uncompressed pubkey in creating a multisig address.
816 2013-04-03 05:06:39 nx201 has joined
817 2013-04-03 05:08:27 pacpac has quit (Quit: Leaving)
818 2013-04-03 05:08:29 <gmaxwell> I expect that before we have proper gui support for multisig what we'll do is use BIP32 extended public keys in some checksumed address form. That way you are also not forced to reuse addresses when using the escrow... should also solve questions like how the addresses are ordered in the script.
819 2013-04-03 05:09:42 IlllIIlI has joined
820 2013-04-03 05:10:04 ypSami has joined
821 2013-04-03 05:10:04 <IlllIIlI> whats the max confirms to reach 6 and a fork
822 2013-04-03 05:10:28 <gmaxwell> IlllIIlI: Can you try asking another way, I'm not following your question.
823 2013-04-03 05:10:35 dtotheb has joined
824 2013-04-03 05:10:47 <IlllIIlI> waiting on a trnsaction
825 2013-04-03 05:10:55 <IlllIIlI> it already has 9 confirms
826 2013-04-03 05:11:16 <IlllIIlI> im told that it takes 6 + depending on the fork
827 2013-04-03 05:11:21 <ThomasV> gmaxwell, so bip32 is final?
828 2013-04-03 05:11:23 nsillik_ has quit (Quit: nsillik_)
829 2013-04-03 05:11:23 gdoteof has joined
830 2013-04-03 05:11:25 <gmaxwell> ThomasV: No.
831 2013-04-03 05:11:32 <ThomasV> :-/
832 2013-04-03 05:11:53 <CodeShark> IlllIIlI: I do not believe you're using the word "fork" very effectively or sensibly in this context
833 2013-04-03 05:11:53 <gmaxwell> ThomasV: in fact, we're talking about changing part of it for security reasons.
834 2013-04-03 05:12:08 <ThomasV> which part?
835 2013-04-03 05:12:21 Thepok has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
836 2013-04-03 05:12:23 kazimir42 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
837 2013-04-03 05:12:42 <EPiSKiNG-> gmaxwell: gox only accepts BTC deposits when there are 6 confirms over an alternate chain, right?
838 2013-04-03 05:12:44 <EPiSKiNG-> something like that
839 2013-04-03 05:12:54 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
840 2013-04-03 05:12:58 <gmaxwell> EPiSKiNG-: never heard that, but it sounds sensible.
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844 2013-04-03 05:13:45 <BTCOxygen> Also did Gox implement this Litecoin scam ?
845 2013-04-03 05:13:58 <CodeShark> forks longer than one or two blocks are exceedingly rare - they have only occurred a couple times in the history of bitcoin and both were due to bugs
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851 2013-04-03 05:15:30 <gdoteof> i have a bitcoin-qt running behind tor, it needs to catch up like 1k blocks, it usually gets only one connection.. i have tried opening the console and doing `addnode <ip from fallbacklist> add`
852 2013-04-03 05:15:39 <gdoteof> on a half dozen or so fallback nodes
853 2013-04-03 05:15:43 <CodeShark> BTCOxygen: Vircurex and btc-e both trade LTC
854 2013-04-03 05:15:47 kenblazer_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
855 2013-04-03 05:15:50 <CodeShark> but gox does not
856 2013-04-03 05:15:58 <gdoteof> now it is down to zero connections
857 2013-04-03 05:16:06 <Luke-Jr> CodeShark: gox does -.-
858 2013-04-03 05:16:07 <gmaxwell> gdoteof: hm? it should get 8 connections without trouble unless you've onlynet=tor-ed it
859 2013-04-03 05:16:11 <CodeShark> oh, they do?
860 2013-04-03 05:16:21 <Luke-Jr> CodeShark: within the month, unless it's stopped somehow
861 2013-04-03 05:16:22 <BTCOxygen> gmaxwell: Do you mean litecoins ?
862 2013-04-03 05:16:30 <jspilman> gmaxwell - definitely would not put uncompressed pubkeys into a multisig -- it's just a question of what form the user input is provided in, and if you can validate the user input is extremely unlikely to have a typo
863 2013-04-03 05:16:31 <CodeShark> you mean they will :)
864 2013-04-03 05:16:43 <Luke-Jr> CodeShark: it's just not published apparently
865 2013-04-03 05:16:58 <gdoteof> idk how to parse onlynet=tor-ed it; it is running on tails, i start bitcoinqt with -proxy=127.0.0.1:9050
866 2013-04-03 05:17:10 <CodeShark> Luke-Jr: but you can submit orders and make deposits and withdrawals via API?
867 2013-04-03 05:17:16 <Luke-Jr> CodeShark: apparently
868 2013-04-03 05:17:29 X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
869 2013-04-03 05:17:30 <gmaxwell> jspilman: If the use expects a uncompressed key, and you were to add it as a compressed on they wouldn't be able to redeem it.
870 2013-04-03 05:17:42 <gmaxwell> BTCOxygen: do I mean litecoins what?
871 2013-04-03 05:18:11 <BTCOxygen> gmaxwell: sorry ... did not read the above messgae
872 2013-04-03 05:18:24 <BTCOxygen> I thought you was answering for LTC connections
873 2013-04-03 05:18:34 <Luke-Jr> CodeShark: probably a bigger threat to bitcoin than DP is
874 2013-04-03 05:18:57 <CodeShark> your sentence is missing a noun, Luke-Jr
875 2013-04-03 05:18:59 <BTCOxygen> Luke-Jr: FYI, LTC all time high is now 0.045
876 2013-04-03 05:19:14 <CodeShark> unless you're trying to sound like Yoda
877 2013-04-03 05:19:26 <gmaxwell> gdoteof: it should eventually end up with 8 connections... it might be somewhat slow at first. Perhaps you're having problems reaching the rest of the tor network, can you browse?
878 2013-04-03 05:19:33 <jspilman> ok - that's an interesting limitation....
879 2013-04-03 05:19:33 <Luke-Jr> CodeShark: parses fine for me, without yoda
880 2013-04-03 05:19:55 <CodeShark> you mean you think litecoin is a bigger threat to bitcoin than DP?
881 2013-04-03 05:20:06 <Luke-Jr> CodeShark: I mean I think MtGox trading Litecoin is
882 2013-04-03 05:20:07 <Diablo-D3> http://gewt.net/pics/decserver/photo-1.jpg
883 2013-04-03 05:20:08 <Diablo-D3> hahah
884 2013-04-03 05:20:17 <Diablo-D3> see the smaller long chip?
885 2013-04-03 05:20:19 <Diablo-D3> thats a network controller.
886 2013-04-03 05:20:25 <CodeShark> Luke-Jr: why?
887 2013-04-03 05:20:32 <Diablo-D3> doesnt even have the MAU
888 2013-04-03 05:20:56 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
889 2013-04-03 05:20:56 <Luke-Jr> CodeShark: MtGox practically represents Bitcoin. When people see it promoting a scam, they're going to think Bitcoin is just another scam too
890 2013-04-03 05:21:19 <CodeShark> how is litecoin any more a scam than bitcoin?
891 2013-04-03 05:21:27 i2pRelay has joined
892 2013-04-03 05:21:41 <Luke-Jr> CodeShark: it's a classic pump and dump
893 2013-04-03 05:22:02 <jspilman> the wallet will see the compressed pubKey and just not realize that it has the right privKey - because decompression is expensive, and so the lookup will just miss?
894 2013-04-03 05:22:10 <bernard75> haha, and what happened in the last hours with btc?
895 2013-04-03 05:22:26 <gmaxwell> jspilman: no, because as far as the system is concerned they are entirely different keys.
896 2013-04-03 05:22:34 <CodeShark> Luke-Jr: only time will tell whether the same won't be said for bitcoin :)
897 2013-04-03 05:22:42 <gmaxwell> jspilman: it just has no idea that compression/decompression exist. They're just different.
898 2013-04-03 05:22:56 <Luke-Jr> CodeShark: Bitcoin experts constantly correct misinformation, even when it's perceived positively
899 2013-04-03 05:23:07 <Luke-Jr> CodeShark: and Bitcoin has innovative reasons for its probable success
900 2013-04-03 05:23:11 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
901 2013-04-03 05:23:16 BTCOxygen has joined
902 2013-04-03 05:23:19 <gmaxwell> LTC debate -> elsewhere please
903 2013-04-03 05:23:29 <Luke-Jr> Litecoin has no reasons for usage, and derives its value from popularizing misinformation
904 2013-04-03 05:23:55 <CodeShark> Litecoin can still be mined on CPUs :)
905 2013-04-03 05:24:03 <Luke-Jr> CodeShark: #eligius
906 2013-04-03 05:24:21 <jgarzik> seconded. this is not #ltc-dev.
907 2013-04-03 05:24:37 <Luke-Jr> #litecoin would work too
908 2013-04-03 05:25:07 <lianj> gmaxwell: doesnt hurt for a service if it watches for both though? (un/compressed address from a privkey)
909 2013-04-03 05:25:16 <Diablo-D3> the bigger long chip is a 68k
910 2013-04-03 05:25:17 gagecolton has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
911 2013-04-03 05:25:23 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
912 2013-04-03 05:25:29 <Diablo-D3> I still cant figure out what the square is
913 2013-04-03 05:25:31 ocminer has joined
914 2013-04-03 05:25:36 Ferroh_ is now known as Ferroh
915 2013-04-03 05:25:53 <Diablo-D3> its a LSI LIA2193 whatever that is
916 2013-04-03 05:25:59 BTCOxygen has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
917 2013-04-03 05:26:05 BTCOxygen is now known as 1!~BTCOxygen@unaffiliated/btcoxygen|BTCOxygen
918 2013-04-03 05:26:57 <gmaxwell> lianj: they're different keys as far as the bitcoin system itself is concerned. E.g. it's like watching for addr(pubkey(privkey)) and addr(pubkey(privkey+1)) I don't see how watching for it could hurt, unless it enables some broken software that does the wrong thing.
919 2013-04-03 05:27:20 XertroV has joined
920 2013-04-03 05:27:27 <helo> ERROR: ProcessBlock() : already have block 137480 0000000000000582c3df7b9fdfa3d390763e2cd5c28dde438934f425a5a53fab with sequentially increasing blocks from the same ip, rating not changing (0 -> 0)
921 2013-04-03 05:27:38 gagecolton has joined
922 2013-04-03 05:27:42 ByronJohnson has quit (Quit: restarting)
923 2013-04-03 05:27:48 <jspilman> you mentioned new version will only generate compressed -- is that a very recent change? v0.8.0 is giving me uncompressed for new addresses
924 2013-04-03 05:28:18 ByronJohnson has joined
925 2013-04-03 05:28:24 <gmaxwell> jspilman: it's as of 0.6 IIRC, but if your wallet version is old it will still give you uncompressed in order to be compatible with older software.
926 2013-04-03 05:28:34 <gmaxwell> well, and until you drain your keypool
927 2013-04-03 05:28:42 Davincij has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
928 2013-04-03 05:28:54 frac has joined
929 2013-04-03 05:28:58 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
930 2013-04-03 05:29:03 <lianj> gmaxwell: just thinking to migrate uncompressed pubkey addresses to use the compressed pubkey in sig scripts and also watch for incoming txs to that compressed pubkey address then in case someone sends/returns funds there
931 2013-04-03 05:29:25 <jspilman> ok, that makes sense -- I'm surprised my wallet.dat is that old, but ok
932 2013-04-03 05:29:27 <gmaxwell> you cannot do that.
933 2013-04-03 05:29:28 <lianj> oh wait, that doesnt even work
934 2013-04-03 05:29:31 i2pRelay has joined
935 2013-04-03 05:29:31 <lianj> true
936 2013-04-03 05:29:34 <lianj> meh
937 2013-04-03 05:30:28 <frac> hello, I'm a bit confused about the functionality of getrawtransaction and i was hoping someone could clear that up for me
938 2013-04-03 05:30:29 <jspilman> so basically if you get a uncompressed pubkey from someone and you're trying to build a multisig -- tell them what exactly? :-)
939 2013-04-03 05:31:00 <jspilman> wait for v1
940 2013-04-03 05:31:02 <jspilman> lol
941 2013-04-03 05:31:33 <gmaxwell> jspilman: huh?
942 2013-04-03 05:31:42 <gmaxwell> frac: Whats your question?
943 2013-04-03 05:32:30 <frac> how does one go about obtaining a txid to be able to check confirmations of a transaction without importing it into the wallet. i don't know how i'd obtain the txid if I wasn't the one who initiated the payment so I'm not sure how I'd check for confirmation
944 2013-04-03 05:32:42 <gmaxwell> jspilman: you can use them, but they'll substantially increase the size of your signatures. You should probably ask the person to get you a compressed one.
945 2013-04-03 05:33:22 _pr has joined
946 2013-04-03 05:33:24 <gmaxwell> frac: If the transaction was destined to you, and the address is in your wallet— you should see it under listtransactions (at a minimum once it has confirmed)
947 2013-04-03 05:33:35 <jspilman> right - which would mean just executing getnewaddress/validateaddress until you get there
948 2013-04-03 05:33:43 MobPhone has joined
949 2013-04-03 05:33:49 <gmaxwell> frac: otherwise, the only way to get a transaction id is to get it from the sender
950 2013-04-03 05:33:54 <frac> yes, im wondering how to check without having to import the private key into the wallet
951 2013-04-03 05:34:05 <frac> how does bitcoind do it, check the blockchain itself?
952 2013-04-03 05:34:36 <gmaxwell> jspilman: after upgrading the wallet version.
953 2013-04-03 05:34:50 <frac> like when bitcoind/bitcoin-qt shows incoming transactions starting with 0 and so on confirmations
954 2013-04-03 05:34:57 <gmaxwell> (I don't mean bitcoin-qt, I mean the wallet.dat version)
955 2013-04-03 05:35:04 <realazthat> is there a way to denote a satoshi value?
956 2013-04-03 05:35:14 <gmaxwell> frac: they watch the blocks as they come in and check their transactions against the list of transactions in the wallet.
957 2013-04-03 05:35:15 <frac> how would one go about repeating that functiionality without importing into the wallet
958 2013-04-03 05:35:16 <realazthat> (convention)
959 2013-04-03 05:35:24 <frac> yeah i thought so
960 2013-04-03 05:35:36 <frac> so i'd need to somehow scan the blocks myself
961 2013-04-03 05:35:40 <gmaxwell> realazthat: "0.00000001"
962 2013-04-03 05:35:49 <gmaxwell> frac: do you know the relevant address?
963 2013-04-03 05:35:50 <frac> assuming im not importing into the wallet, thank you very much gmaxwell
964 2013-04-03 05:35:58 <frac> hmm yeah
965 2013-04-03 05:36:02 <frac> like this use case is say
966 2013-04-03 05:36:14 <frac> im providing a web service and a user gets a new address to send me money
967 2013-04-03 05:36:14 <gmaxwell> frac: you could go look up the txid in a third party service... then getrawtransaction <that> 1
968 2013-04-03 05:36:25 <frac> im not sure i want to import this into a wallet
969 2013-04-03 05:36:39 <gmaxwell> frac: you want a "watch only wallet"
970 2013-04-03 05:36:44 <frac> yeah thats what ive figured so far, use an api like blockchain.info or whatever
971 2013-04-03 05:36:44 <realazthat> gmaxwell: yeah I meant like STS or somesuch abbreviation
972 2013-04-03 05:36:53 <wumpus> realazthat: I guess nBTC=0.1 satoshi comes closest, satoshi is not a SI unit
973 2013-04-03 05:36:55 <frac> oh okay
974 2013-04-03 05:36:56 manet_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
975 2013-04-03 05:36:58 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
976 2013-04-03 05:37:45 <gmaxwell> frac: I don't think any local (?) implements watch-only-wallets right now, but they're certantly on the radar. Once we have multi-wallet support in bitcoind/bitcoin-qt watch only shouldn't be hard to add.
977 2013-04-03 05:37:47 <realazthat> wumpus: ah ok
978 2013-04-03 05:37:48 <realazthat> wait
979 2013-04-03 05:37:48 <realazthat> wumpus as in wumpus ?
980 2013-04-03 05:37:56 <frac> yeah see
981 2013-04-03 05:38:00 <realazthat> wumpus: lol it is you
982 2013-04-03 05:38:02 <wumpus> realazthat: lol what?
983 2013-04-03 05:38:06 <frac> thats basically what im trying to implement myself essentially
984 2013-04-03 05:38:09 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: you're famous! :P
985 2013-04-03 05:38:11 <frac> is multiple wallets but its not easy
986 2013-04-03 05:38:15 <wumpus> woooo :D
987 2013-04-03 05:38:18 <frac> im running into wall after wall
988 2013-04-03 05:38:27 <Luke-Jr> frac: the code for multiple wallets is pretty much all done (by CodeShark)
989 2013-04-03 05:38:35 <Luke-Jr> (and sipa under the hood)
990 2013-04-03 05:38:37 <realazthat> wumpus: lol, you idling in too many channels :P
991 2013-04-03 05:38:44 <gmaxwell> presumably frac is building something externally.
992 2013-04-03 05:38:54 * gmaxwell imagines sipa with a shark handpuppet.
993 2013-04-03 05:38:55 kermit_ has joined
994 2013-04-03 05:39:01 <frac> you guys are awesome
995 2013-04-03 05:39:11 <frac> ive come in here many times and always get helped
996 2013-04-03 05:39:14 <frac> i really appreciate it
997 2013-04-03 05:39:31 b4tt3r135 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
998 2013-04-03 05:39:50 * gmaxwell makes a note to ban more newbies (they're getting too comfortable)
999 2013-04-03 05:40:24 nx201 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1000 2013-04-03 05:40:26 <Diablo-D3> lol
1001 2013-04-03 05:40:26 kalleboo_ has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
1002 2013-04-03 05:40:31 <Diablo-D3> hey gmaxwell did you look at that image?
1003 2013-04-03 05:40:35 <helo> since the value has gone up 10x, it would be really nice if 2.5btc was a lifetime foundation membership instead of annual now :/
1004 2013-04-03 05:40:42 XertroV has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1005 2013-04-03 05:40:49 <Diablo-D3> I wonder what that lsi lia2193 is
1006 2013-04-03 05:41:05 <Diablo-D3> helo: yeah really
1007 2013-04-03 05:41:16 <Luke-Jr> gavin must have a really nice salary now..
1008 2013-04-03 05:41:20 <Diablo-D3> memberships should be done in USD
1009 2013-04-03 05:41:35 <wumpus> helo: yes, the foundation membership prices are crazy now
1010 2013-04-03 05:41:41 <phantomcircuit> sigh
1011 2013-04-03 05:41:56 AlbertTuring has joined
1012 2013-04-03 05:41:58 <helo> no shit... hopefully his salary bloat it helps to temper the stress of such insane growth
1013 2013-04-03 05:41:59 <phantomcircuit> still cant generate a testnet block
1014 2013-04-03 05:42:11 <phantomcircuit> im *pretty* sure cpu mining on testnet is broken in the clietn
1015 2013-04-03 05:42:16 cryptorific has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1016 2013-04-03 05:42:17 <phantomcircuit> can anybody confirm?
1017 2013-04-03 05:42:20 <helo> phantomcircuit: it was working last week
1018 2013-04-03 05:42:26 nx201 has joined
1019 2013-04-03 05:42:31 <ypSami> Which foundation?
1020 2013-04-03 05:42:37 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: it was working when I last used it.
1021 2013-04-03 05:42:39 <helo> if you need some tnbtc, i have some on my phone i can send you
1022 2013-04-03 05:42:58 frac has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1023 2013-04-03 05:43:17 <Luke-Jr> ypSami: are there multiple already?
1024 2013-04-03 05:43:24 <helo> ypSami: bitcoinfoundation.org
1025 2013-04-03 05:43:32 <ypSami> helo: thanks
1026 2013-04-03 05:43:48 <jspilman> I cpu mined a block on testnet yesterday, 0.8.0 tho I think
1027 2013-04-03 05:44:05 <wumpus> the second bitcoin foundation?
1028 2013-04-03 05:46:34 <Diablo-D3> man
1029 2013-04-03 05:46:38 <Diablo-D3> I should do this
1030 2013-04-03 05:46:42 <Diablo-D3> invest in DMC 2.0
1031 2013-04-03 05:46:51 <Diablo-D3> and DMC will become a platinum corporate member
1032 2013-04-03 05:48:23 <phantomcircuit> sigh
1033 2013-04-03 05:48:56 <Diablo-D3> that'd be awesome
1034 2013-04-03 05:49:01 MobPhone has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1035 2013-04-03 05:49:04 grau has joined
1036 2013-04-03 05:50:11 dust-otc_ has joined
1037 2013-04-03 05:52:19 dust-otc has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1038 2013-04-03 05:53:46 Pasha has joined
1039 2013-04-03 05:53:46 Transisto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1040 2013-04-03 05:54:02 XertroV has joined
1041 2013-04-03 05:55:26 XertroV has quit (Client Quit)
1042 2013-04-03 05:56:10 Cory has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1043 2013-04-03 05:56:14 Transisto has joined
1044 2013-04-03 05:56:18 saulimus has quit (Quit: saulimus)
1045 2013-04-03 05:56:58 has quit (_STIMPY_|!~doddy@5ac82b64.bb.sky.com|Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D)
1046 2013-04-03 05:57:52 wrabbit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1047 2013-04-03 05:58:07 kermit_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1048 2013-04-03 05:58:18 wizkid057 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1049 2013-04-03 05:58:22 <helo> is SIGHASH_ANYONECANPAY canonical?
1050 2013-04-03 05:59:48 ocminer has quit (Quit: ocminer)
1051 2013-04-03 05:59:50 Pasha is now known as Cory
1052 2013-04-03 06:00:27 <gmaxwell> helo: in what way?
1053 2013-04-03 06:00:49 <gdoteof> 00:57 <@gmaxwell> gdoteof: it should eventually end up with 8 connections... it might be somewhat slow at first. Perhaps you're having problems reaching the rest of the tor network, can you browse?
1054 2013-04-03 06:00:51 Ashaman has joined
1055 2013-04-03 06:00:57 <gdoteof> ^^ yes
1056 2013-04-03 06:01:14 <gdoteof> i can browse, it all seems fine
1057 2013-04-03 06:01:21 <gdoteof> addnode doesn't give me any feedback when ir un it
1058 2013-04-03 06:01:42 <gdoteof> no error, but still zero connections
1059 2013-04-03 06:02:40 pizzacat has joined
1060 2013-04-03 06:03:23 <helo> gmaxwell: i guess i'm interested in whether such a (satisfied) transaction will be relayed and mined
1061 2013-04-03 06:04:01 ocminer has joined
1062 2013-04-03 06:04:15 <gmaxwell> helo: they're not non-standard.
1063 2013-04-03 06:04:32 <helo> neato
1064 2013-04-03 06:04:38 <gmaxwell> gdoteof: are you sure the port is right for your proxy setup?
1065 2013-04-03 06:06:11 <gdoteof> i will check 100%, but i had connections before
1066 2013-04-03 06:06:24 <peawormsworth> at some point in the future when the price of bitcoin is more stable... i expect some online vendors will fix their prices in bitcoin... rather then setting the bitcoin price against some fixed fiat currency.
1067 2013-04-03 06:06:31 ocminer_ has joined
1068 2013-04-03 06:06:38 <peawormsworth> if anyone sees bitcoin as the constant, it should be you... the miners, because it requires no more work to create a fixed amount of coins over time. The price change is simply a benefit, should you choose to convert it.
1069 2013-04-03 06:06:54 <peawormsworth> I mention this because someone was saying the 2.5 BTC is too much for annual membership. But maybe it should not be about the fiat cost, but the cost of processing labour... which is constant no matter what the bitcoin value is.
1070 2013-04-03 06:07:10 wizkid057 has joined
1071 2013-04-03 06:07:26 <peawormsworth> but... i am not invested in this... so i have no real say.
1072 2013-04-03 06:07:38 <gmaxwell> peawormsworth: uh? This is #bitcoin-dev not #bitcoin-mining. ... though the work required for mining is not constant at all.
1073 2013-04-03 06:07:46 <peawormsworth> o.
1074 2013-04-03 06:07:57 <gmaxwell> ;;bc,diff
1075 2013-04-03 06:07:57 <gribble> Error: "bc,diff" is not a valid command.
1076 2013-04-03 06:07:59 ocminer has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1077 2013-04-03 06:08:01 <gmaxwell> ;;diff
1078 2013-04-03 06:08:02 <gribble> 6695826.282596251
1079 2013-04-03 06:08:42 ocminer_ is now known as ocminer
1080 2013-04-03 06:08:50 nanotube has quit (Excess Flood)
1081 2013-04-03 06:08:58 <gmaxwell> at the moment it is 13,391,652 times more difficult to generate a bitcoin than it was when bitcoin started.
1082 2013-04-03 06:09:35 Transisto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1083 2013-04-03 06:10:17 <peawormsworth> thanks gmaxwell... i have a lot to learn.
1084 2013-04-03 06:10:25 Hasimir has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1085 2013-04-03 06:10:42 Hasimir- has joined
1086 2013-04-03 06:12:06 Transisto has joined
1087 2013-04-03 06:13:09 <dust-otc_> if bitcoind hangs on startup with "Loading block index..." as the last line in debug.log, is there anything that can be done besides deleting the blockchain and redownloading?
1088 2013-04-03 06:13:28 <dust-otc_> blew a circuit so the db was not shutdown cleanly..
1089 2013-04-03 06:13:39 <gmaxwell> dust-otc_: what version is this?
1090 2013-04-03 06:13:40 ocminer_ has joined
1091 2013-04-03 06:14:10 <gmaxwell> and have you tried just letting it sit for a bit? What OS too?
1092 2013-04-03 06:14:19 Hasimir- is now known as Hasimir
1093 2013-04-03 06:14:19 Hasimir has quit (Changing host)
1094 2013-04-03 06:14:19 Hasimir has joined
1095 2013-04-03 06:14:27 <dust-otc_> ubuntu, i'm letting it sit now
1096 2013-04-03 06:14:27 nanotube has joined
1097 2013-04-03 06:14:42 <dust-otc_> BTC actually recovered, some altchains (based on older bitcoin versions) have not
1098 2013-04-03 06:15:02 <gdoteof> gmaxwell: can i trust that when i hit apply to change my proxy settings in network that the proxy changes ar ebeing made, or do i need to restart with the -prxoy= flag?
1099 2013-04-03 06:15:24 <dust-otc_> but it looks like the solution is to wait..
1100 2013-04-03 06:16:00 <jgarzik> sigh
1101 2013-04-03 06:16:03 <jgarzik> thank you boost
1102 2013-04-03 06:16:06 <gmaxwell> gdoteof: in tails it should even work without the proxy.... but as far as I know the gui setting shoudl work.
1103 2013-04-03 06:16:07 ocminer has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1104 2013-04-03 06:16:07 AtashiCon has quit (Quit: AtashiCon)
1105 2013-04-03 06:16:08 ocminer_ is now known as ocminer
1106 2013-04-03 06:16:12 <jgarzik> sometimes, exit(0) does not work
1107 2013-04-03 06:16:21 <jgarzik> sometimes, the process hangs around, waiting on a futex
1108 2013-04-03 06:17:04 ocminer has quit (Client Quit)
1109 2013-04-03 06:17:34 <gmaxwell> _exit(0) :P ?
1110 2013-04-03 06:17:45 <gdoteof> gmaxwell: i could not get it to work without a proxy, is et the proxy to 127.0.0.1:9050 (default tails setup)
1111 2013-04-03 06:18:00 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: <grin> already rebuilding with that change, as a matter of fact
1112 2013-04-03 06:18:06 <gdoteof> and then i got some connections.
1113 2013-04-03 06:18:19 <gdoteof> but still only 2-3 i think at the max
1114 2013-04-03 06:19:11 AtashiCon has joined
1115 2013-04-03 06:19:26 <dust-otc_> gmaxwell: all coins recovered with no interaction, thx
1116 2013-04-03 06:20:03 <gmaxwell> gdoteof: odd. I really don't know what to suggest; I use bitcoin over tor every day and other than it being a bit slow to get up initial connections I've never seen anything like what you're describing.
1117 2013-04-03 06:20:48 ocminer has joined
1118 2013-04-03 06:21:59 <jgarzik> Jelly beans: eat the licorice first, and get it over with
1119 2013-04-03 06:21:59 AtashiCon has quit (Client Quit)
1120 2013-04-03 06:22:15 AtashiCon has joined
1121 2013-04-03 06:22:27 B0g4r7 has joined
1122 2013-04-03 06:22:32 <jgarzik> yep, _exit() fixes it ;p
1123 2013-04-03 06:23:03 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: you don't like the licorice ones? I love licorice.
1124 2013-04-03 06:23:31 <jgarzik> of course, just a stop-gap. real solution is to find the culprit who wants a futex. probably a statically declared class instance at module level, somewhere.
1125 2013-04-03 06:23:37 gdoteof is now known as whodid
1126 2013-04-03 06:23:41 whodid has left ()
1127 2013-04-03 06:24:21 segy has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1128 2013-04-03 06:24:22 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: going the crash-only-programming route?
1129 2013-04-03 06:24:40 * jgarzik ponders a v0 of this project: make the blockchain engine a thread first, and get everyone talking to the blockchain engine via pipe. then fork. makes it easier to bring things over piecemeal, and test piecemeal, rather than all-at-once.
1130 2013-04-03 06:25:02 saulimus has joined
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1132 2013-04-03 06:25:05 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: well for the child process, we don't really care what it is, most likely
1133 2013-04-03 06:25:14 dust-otc_ is now known as dust-otc
1134 2013-04-03 06:25:21 <jgarzik> so ignore + _exit is probably ok
1135 2013-04-03 06:26:02 XertroV has joined
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1137 2013-04-03 06:27:13 <jgarzik> ideally the fork point would be before any of that C++ crap gets initialized, but that is not realistic
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1139 2013-04-03 06:27:32 mouseofthesteppe has joined
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1141 2013-04-03 06:28:06 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: well global stuff gets inited before main.
1142 2013-04-03 06:28:21 <jgarzik> precisely why it's a pain
1143 2013-04-03 06:28:49 <gmaxwell> but perhaps later there is just a thin startup process that doesn't have any of that stuff and only starts the children and gets them talking.
1144 2013-04-03 06:29:09 B0g4r7 has joined
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1148 2013-04-03 06:31:02 <jgarzik> INN did that for security purposes, and everybody hated it ;p
1149 2013-04-03 06:31:10 <jgarzik> innd-start, IIRC
1150 2013-04-03 06:31:32 ocminer has quit (Quit: ocminer)
1151 2013-04-03 06:34:38 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: hm. Well its also a good place to put the seccomp2 wrapper stuff. :P The security argument is getting stronger over time. :P
1152 2013-04-03 06:35:38 <jgarzik> oh well. You're probably right, but that is for another night. Time to see if Monster Hunter is a silly book.
1153 2013-04-03 06:37:10 XertroV has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1154 2013-04-03 06:37:44 <phantomcircuit> "difficulty" : 11.90472507,
1155 2013-04-03 06:37:45 <phantomcircuit> wat
1156 2013-04-03 06:37:52 <phantomcircuit> why is testnet difficulty not 1 :/
1157 2013-04-03 06:38:24 <phantomcircuit> the wallet with all my testnet coins takes literally 6 hours to load
1158 2013-04-03 06:38:27 <phantomcircuit> i'd rather not go there
1159 2013-04-03 06:39:29 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: doesn't really matter what the difficulty is.
1160 2013-04-03 06:39:44 nx201 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1161 2013-04-03 06:39:45 <phantomcircuit> ;;genrate
1162 2013-04-03 06:39:45 <gribble> (genrate <hashrate> [<difficulty>]) -- Calculate expected bitcoin generation rate using <hashrate> Mhps, at current difficulty. If optional <difficulty> argument is provided, expected generation time is for supplied difficulty.
1163 2013-04-03 06:40:04 <phantomcircuit> ;;genrate 1 1
1164 2013-04-03 06:40:04 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 1.0, is 502.906516431 BTC per day and 20.9544381846 BTC per hour.
1165 2013-04-03 06:40:06 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: after 20 minutes without a block the network will let you produce one at diff 1
1166 2013-04-03 06:40:09 <phantomcircuit> ;;genrate 1 11
1167 2013-04-03 06:40:09 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 11.0, is 45.718774221 BTC per day and 1.90494892587 BTC per hour.
1168 2013-04-03 06:40:19 <gmaxwell> 1MHps? 0_o
1169 2013-04-03 06:40:28 <gmaxwell> are you mining on a pandaboard?
1170 2013-04-03 06:40:31 <phantomcircuit> i have no idea what it really is the client doesn't say
1171 2013-04-03 06:40:43 <gmaxwell> well the internal one is slow, indeed.
1172 2013-04-03 06:41:17 <phantomcircuit> ok it *did* generate a block
1173 2013-04-03 06:41:21 <phantomcircuit> so it is working
1174 2013-04-03 06:41:34 <phantomcircuit> but ridiculously slowly
1175 2013-04-03 06:41:47 <phantomcircuit> this has been running all day and it just generated a block
1176 2013-04-03 06:41:52 <phantomcircuit> damn you sha256
1177 2013-04-03 06:42:02 <phantomcircuit> i need better entropy
1178 2013-04-03 06:42:06 <phantomcircuit> luckier entropy
1179 2013-04-03 06:42:14 <lianj> phantomcircuit: testnet in a box and patch the difficulty
1180 2013-04-03 06:42:43 <phantomcircuit> lianj, reasons not to do that and things
1181 2013-04-03 06:42:46 * phantomcircuit mumbles
1182 2013-04-03 06:43:01 <lianj> :P
1183 2013-04-03 06:43:03 rhett has joined
1184 2013-04-03 06:43:28 word has left ("Konversation terminated!")
1185 2013-04-03 06:43:35 SomeoneWeird has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1186 2013-04-03 06:43:49 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: you've tried this on testnet? (./bitcoind getrawtransaction 73e64e38faea386c88a578fd1919bcdba3d0b3af7b6302bf6ee1b423dc4e4333 ; ./bitcoind getrawtransaction d85af546147ff78dfb06e9469ddfc84adc3ce00cda54db8d65b7617ff2b7661a) | xxd -r -p | play -tul -
1187 2013-04-03 06:44:20 <lianj> phantomcircuit: haveged is targeted for luckier entropy
1188 2013-04-03 06:44:20 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i think one of those is me
1189 2013-04-03 06:44:35 <phantomcircuit> i mined a block with an 800kb transaction in it
1190 2013-04-03 06:45:41 <phantomcircuit> i was shooting for as close to 1 MB as i could get without messing with the transaction too much
1191 2013-04-03 06:45:57 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: I doubt it. run it.
1192 2013-04-03 06:45:58 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: that one is not you.
1193 2013-04-03 06:46:05 <gmaxwell> run it run it
1194 2013-04-03 06:46:08 <phantomcircuit> unfortunately the client got oom killed while trying to sign
1195 2013-04-03 06:46:09 <phantomcircuit> wat
1196 2013-04-03 06:46:16 <phantomcircuit> <-- suspicious
1197 2013-04-03 06:46:16 <gmaxwell> sign??
1198 2013-04-03 06:46:17 <phantomcircuit> ok
1199 2013-04-03 06:46:38 nx201 has joined
1200 2013-04-03 06:46:46 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i accidentally created a transaction with 1000000 inputs
1201 2013-04-03 06:46:51 <phantomcircuit> and then tried to sign it
1202 2013-04-03 06:47:04 <phantomcircuit> needless to say that didn't work very well
1203 2013-04-03 06:47:07 <gmaxwell> I OOMed _bash_ today while using bitcoin.
1204 2013-04-03 06:47:27 <phantomcircuit> lol
1205 2013-04-03 06:48:12 plains has joined
1206 2013-04-03 06:48:26 <phantomcircuit> oh my god
1207 2013-04-03 06:48:30 <phantomcircuit> rofl
1208 2013-04-03 06:48:35 <gmaxwell> hahahah
1209 2013-04-03 06:48:40 <phantomcircuit> ahaha
1210 2013-04-03 06:50:30 <phantomcircuit> that's hilarious
1211 2013-04-03 06:52:01 <gmaxwell> For fun— (have another terminal up so you can kill the new bash subprocess this creates) run:
1212 2013-04-03 06:52:04 <gmaxwell> echo `[{"txid":"0","vout":5},{"txid":"0","vout":5},{"txid":"0","vout":5},{"txid":"0","vout":5},{"txid":"0","vout":5},{"txid":"0","vout":5},{"txid":"0","vout":5},{"txid":"0","vout":5},{"txid":"0","vout":5},{"txid":"0","vout":5},{"txid":"0","vout":5},{"txid":"0","vout":5},{"txid":"0","vout":5},{"txid":"0","vout":5},{"txid":"0","vout":5},{"txid":"0","vout":5},{"txid":"0","vout":5},{"txid":"0","vout":5},{"txid":"0","vout":5},{"txid":"0","vo ...
1213 2013-04-03 06:52:11 <gmaxwell> ... ut":5},{"txid":"0","vout":5},{"txid":"0","vout":5}]`
1214 2013-04-03 06:52:13 <gmaxwell> oops stupid irssi splitting
1215 2013-04-03 06:52:18 <gmaxwell> you can just take off the last couple
1216 2013-04-03 06:52:41 <gmaxwell> I dunno wtf that makes bash do, but it tries to use ALL THE MEMORIES to do it
1217 2013-04-03 06:53:17 BlackPrapor has joined
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1219 2013-04-03 06:55:23 gdoteof has joined
1220 2013-04-03 06:55:43 <gdoteof> well, i got a connection again using proxy=127.0.0.1
1221 2013-04-03 06:55:46 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, no thank you
1222 2013-04-03 06:55:52 <gdoteof> a 2nd for a second, but back down to 1
1223 2013-04-03 06:56:54 <gdoteof> can i list connected peers somehow?
1224 2013-04-03 06:57:08 <gmaxwell> gdoteof: open the console, run getpeerinfo
1225 2013-04-03 06:57:46 pegu has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1226 2013-04-03 06:58:18 <gdoteof> 206.217.197.122 is my only friend
1227 2013-04-03 06:58:22 <area> I have a (commented out) bash forkbomb in my .plan at work, with a warning to never run it, but no explanation as to why or what it does. No-one has stumbled across it yet
1228 2013-04-03 07:00:40 coolfengyu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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1233 2013-04-03 07:05:35 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: {a,b,c}d expands to ad bd cd
1234 2013-04-03 07:05:53 <Luke-Jr> {a,b,c}{d,e,f} to ad ae af bd be bf cd ce cf
1235 2013-04-03 07:05:55 <Luke-Jr> :P
1236 2013-04-03 07:06:05 <gmaxwell> ah ha!
1237 2013-04-03 07:06:34 <wumpus> exponential growth! :P
1238 2013-04-03 07:08:43 <gmaxwell> yea, it never gets around to telling me the command doesn't exist— too busy enumerating 2^txn combinations. :P
1239 2013-04-03 07:11:49 toffoo has quit ()
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1248 2013-04-03 07:24:57 <EvilPete> Hmm, the bitcoind listening on a non-default port on a public IP really isn't a viable option, is it?
1249 2013-04-03 07:25:08 <EvilPete> s/the//
1250 2013-04-03 07:25:47 paraipan has joined
1251 2013-04-03 07:26:36 XertroV has joined
1252 2013-04-03 07:28:21 <tgs3> EvilPete: this is configurable. You can also use TOR
1253 2013-04-03 07:28:49 <tgs3> What is the best way to check several old wallet.dat if any contains any (now spendable) moneys in it
1254 2013-04-03 07:30:28 rhett has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1255 2013-04-03 07:31:12 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
1256 2013-04-03 07:31:13 oqioi has joined
1257 2013-04-03 07:33:07 fanquake has joined
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1259 2013-04-03 07:34:16 <tgs3> gmaxwell: it triggers bash'es built in secret litecoin miner
1260 2013-04-03 07:34:37 Optimus-Prime has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1261 2013-04-03 07:34:41 Optimus-Prime_ has joined
1262 2013-04-03 07:35:51 XertroV has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1263 2013-04-03 07:36:20 jl2012 has joined
1264 2013-04-03 07:36:28 <jl2012> https://blockchain.info/tx-index/64567969/1
1265 2013-04-03 07:36:37 tef has joined
1266 2013-04-03 07:36:53 <jl2012> i guess this won't get confirmed?
1267 2013-04-03 07:37:28 <K1773R> why should it?
1268 2013-04-03 07:37:55 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1269 2013-04-03 07:38:02 Luke-Jr has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1270 2013-04-03 07:38:30 grau has joined
1271 2013-04-03 07:39:01 <jl2012> shouldn't it be considered as invalid and dropped?
1272 2013-04-03 07:39:17 Yulth has joined
1273 2013-04-03 07:39:25 Yulth has left ()
1274 2013-04-03 07:40:20 <K1773R> honestly, i wonder blockchain shows it ;)
1275 2013-04-03 07:40:35 <EvilPete> tgs3: I'm looking at the code: ThreadOpenConnections2() which has if (addr.GetPort() != GetDefaultPort() && nTries < 50) continue;
1276 2013-04-03 07:41:05 <jl2012> so that's a bug in the bitcoind of blockchain?
1277 2013-04-03 07:41:30 Xeno-Genesis has joined
1278 2013-04-03 07:42:13 Prattler has joined
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1280 2013-04-03 07:42:35 Optimus-Prime has joined
1281 2013-04-03 07:43:26 Optimus-Prime has quit (Client Quit)
1282 2013-04-03 07:43:35 ovidiusoft has joined
1283 2013-04-03 07:43:37 <EvilPete> K1773R: jl2012: that was a nice try though..
1284 2013-04-03 07:43:51 <K1773R> im not a blockchain dev, so i cant talk about it ;)
1285 2013-04-03 07:44:04 brwyatt is now known as brwyatt|Away
1286 2013-04-03 07:44:09 <jl2012> i can't find it in my mempool at 0.8.1
1287 2013-04-03 07:45:16 <K1773R> as i said, i wonder they accept it ;)
1288 2013-04-03 07:47:23 <EvilPete> Presumably they have their own custom protocol implementation that records even the invalid stuff so people can see what went wrong
1289 2013-04-03 07:48:55 Retik has joined
1290 2013-04-03 07:49:10 <Retik> does anyone happen to know the datetime format coming from the mtgox websocket?
1291 2013-04-03 07:49:38 _anon has joined
1292 2013-04-03 07:49:48 Xeno-Genesis has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1293 2013-04-03 07:50:35 ZeroIce has joined
1294 2013-04-03 07:57:45 manet has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1295 2013-04-03 07:59:37 <weex> Retik: is it an int?
1296 2013-04-03 08:00:18 <Retik> 64bit int
1297 2013-04-03 08:00:33 <Retik> any conversion i try to do for unix time says the value is too large
1298 2013-04-03 08:00:36 Xeno-Genesis has joined
1299 2013-04-03 08:00:44 <Retik> as far as I know it's stupposed to be seconds since jan 1, 1970
1300 2013-04-03 08:00:48 MrTiggr has joined
1301 2013-04-03 08:00:58 <Retik> 1364974678549666
1302 2013-04-03 08:00:59 <weex> maybe milliseconds?
1303 2013-04-03 08:01:01 <ZeroIce> for unix time?
1304 2013-04-03 08:01:04 <Retik> yes
1305 2013-04-03 08:01:12 <Retik> still says too large even for milliseconds
1306 2013-04-03 08:01:16 <weex> might be microseconds
1307 2013-04-03 08:01:37 <Retik> hmm
1308 2013-04-03 08:01:45 <Retik> ya cause that number in milliseconds would be 44k years
1309 2013-04-03 08:01:53 <Xeno-Genesis> it looks like much more precise than milliseconds
1310 2013-04-03 08:02:06 <Xeno-Genesis> where did you get that timestamp from?
1311 2013-04-03 08:02:23 <RoboTeddy> it's probably milliseconds since unix epoch
1312 2013-04-03 08:02:28 <RoboTeddy> errrr
1313 2013-04-03 08:02:29 <Retik> the websocket for mtgox
1314 2013-04-03 08:02:33 <Retik> GetDepth
1315 2013-04-03 08:02:44 <Retik> i tried ticks
1316 2013-04-03 08:02:53 <Xeno-Genesis> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/MtGox/API/Streaming
1317 2013-04-03 08:02:53 <Retik> gave me a date of 1974
1318 2013-04-03 08:03:06 XertroV has joined
1319 2013-04-03 08:03:06 <RoboTeddy> it's um unix timestamp in microseconds i believe
1320 2013-04-03 08:03:37 <Xeno-Genesis> looks like microseconds, it is definitely a Unix timestamp, at least the first ten numbers
1321 2013-04-03 08:04:02 fishfishclone has quit (Quit: Zzzzz..zzzzz)
1322 2013-04-03 08:05:06 <Retik> hmm maybe i'll just try dividing it by 1k
1323 2013-04-03 08:05:33 denisx has joined
1324 2013-04-03 08:05:46 <Retik> boom there we go
1325 2013-04-03 08:05:56 <RoboTeddy> Retik: divide it by 1e6 to get a unix timestamp
1326 2013-04-03 08:06:10 <Retik> ya i got it
1327 2013-04-03 08:06:10 <Retik> thanks
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1337 2013-04-03 08:16:56 mappum has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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1344 2013-04-03 08:25:16 <sagax_> https://blockchain.info/tx/06e67bebec75096cc8072974ff944fef973cecdc5a13e3cac6d3028fc1bd6579 => weird!!
1345 2013-04-03 08:25:39 <jouke> Why is that weird?
1346 2013-04-03 08:26:12 <sagax_> look a bit more...
1347 2013-04-03 08:26:15 <RoboTeddy> because it's a transaction for 1.6bn btc?
1348 2013-04-03 08:26:20 <sagax_> 1.6 G BTC
1349 2013-04-03 08:26:22 <sagax_> yep
1350 2013-04-03 08:26:39 <jhbittrader3141> holy shit
1351 2013-04-03 08:26:55 <sagax_> not good!!
1352 2013-04-03 08:27:02 <jhbittrader3141> not good at all
1353 2013-04-03 08:27:37 manet has joined
1354 2013-04-03 08:28:11 <sagax_> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1bkor7/attempted_to_send_60_btc_ended_up_sending_16/
1355 2013-04-03 08:30:01 <MC1984> dont trust b.i
1356 2013-04-03 08:31:40 <sagax_> http://i.imgur.com/EYF9iKk.png
1357 2013-04-03 08:33:23 XertroV has joined
1358 2013-04-03 08:33:50 tockitj has quit (Changing host)
1359 2013-04-03 08:33:50 tockitj has joined
1360 2013-04-03 08:34:42 warren has left ("Leaving")
1361 2013-04-03 08:34:54 Goonie_ has joined
1362 2013-04-03 08:35:10 <JyZyXEL> oh look, 1.6 billion bitcoins sent from the middle of the ocean
1363 2013-04-03 08:36:10 t7 has joined
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1367 2013-04-03 08:36:59 <area> Standard
1368 2013-04-03 08:37:23 pizzacat has joined
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1370 2013-04-03 08:39:15 <JyZyXEL> its probably not gonna get many confirmations
1371 2013-04-03 08:39:33 Davincij15 has joined
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1385 2013-04-03 08:56:49 eklass has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1386 2013-04-03 08:56:58 <pjorrit_> looks like an overflow
1387 2013-04-03 08:57:34 Saberu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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1392 2013-04-03 09:01:21 <K1773R> sagax_: same as this: https://blockchain.info/tx/06e67bebec75096cc8072974ff944fef973cecdc5a13e3cac6d3028fc1bd6579
1393 2013-04-03 09:01:29 <K1773R> just ignore it ;) wont get confirmed
1394 2013-04-03 09:03:47 Davincij has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1395 2013-04-03 09:07:34 Grishnap has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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1399 2013-04-03 09:09:38 <Yulth> Hi everyone! What '-gen' option does when bitcoind is executed as daemon?
1400 2013-04-03 09:09:41 drapetomano_ has joined
1401 2013-04-03 09:10:09 yeahoffline has joined
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1407 2013-04-03 09:11:54 <K1773R> gen=1 means it will try to find blocks with a crappy CPU mining implementation
1408 2013-04-03 09:12:17 <K1773R> just ignore it, its obsolete
1409 2013-04-03 09:12:27 <Yulth> ok
1410 2013-04-03 09:13:40 <Yulth> and how It could be executed to create a poll where other members share their efforts?
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1420 2013-04-03 09:25:51 <moeee> hey guys
1421 2013-04-03 09:26:02 <moeee> what´s going on here: https://blockchain.info/tx/06e67bebec75096cc8072974ff944fef973cecdc5a13e3cac6d3028fc1bd6579 ?
1422 2013-04-03 09:26:05 <ZeroIce> sagax_ jouke, may i ask why that is bad?
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1424 2013-04-03 09:26:19 <moeee> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1bkor7/attempted_to_send_60_btc_ended_up_sending_16/
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1432 2013-04-03 09:33:48 <MC1984> ffs
1433 2013-04-03 09:33:55 <MC1984> b.i is not bitcoin
1434 2013-04-03 09:33:57 XertroV has joined
1435 2013-04-03 09:33:59 <MC1984> b.i says a lot of shit
1436 2013-04-03 09:34:02 <MC1984> disregard
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1471 2013-04-03 10:00:14 <TradeFortress> there needs to be a coin doublespend service
1472 2013-04-03 10:00:26 <TradeFortress> sent coins with no fees that doesnt' confirm? doublespend it with higher fee
1473 2013-04-03 10:09:26 <iwilcox> Perhaps s/doublespend/respend/ to avoid confusion if it's to the same address
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1475 2013-04-03 10:10:04 <Cryo> really, everyone is freaking out over a bad transaction of a super high figure that can't possibly be validated?
1476 2013-04-03 10:10:09 <Cryo> OMG BITCOIN IS ON FIRE
1477 2013-04-03 10:11:32 DrAkaman has quit (Client Quit)
1478 2013-04-03 10:11:44 <GMP> TradeFortress: any idea how to make the service "automatic"? connecting to specific IP is too complicated for regular user
1479 2013-04-03 10:12:15 <TradeFortress> GMP, I was thinking more of an offline utility actually
1480 2013-04-03 10:12:26 <TradeFortress> open source, you point it at the transaction, it doublespends it with higher fee.
1481 2013-04-03 10:12:34 Yulth has joined
1482 2013-04-03 10:12:38 <Cryo> you made me sad saying that an IP is too hard for a regular user
1483 2013-04-03 10:12:41 <moeee> so what up with that super high transactions?
1484 2013-04-03 10:13:07 <EvilPete> Anyone feel like smacking a few trolls in #bitcoin?
1485 2013-04-03 10:13:29 <Cryo> moeee, nothing is up. it won't be put into the blocklist
1486 2013-04-03 10:13:31 DrAkaman has joined
1487 2013-04-03 10:13:44 <Cryo> evilpete just stay out of #bitcoin... too much noise and stupid
1488 2013-04-03 10:13:52 <moeee> ah thanks. that is good to know. any idea what happened?
1489 2013-04-03 10:14:34 chmod755 has joined
1490 2013-04-03 10:14:51 <TradeFortress> EvilPete, I don't even browse there anymore
1491 2013-04-03 10:14:54 <TradeFortress> Btw, you play epicmafia?
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1493 2013-04-03 10:15:13 <Cryo> moeee, nope.. could be spoofed, could be an overflow, sunspots, attention whoring trying to discredit BTC when it's all over the news and at ~$100/btc
1494 2013-04-03 10:15:47 DrAkaman has quit (Client Quit)
1495 2013-04-03 10:19:34 <EvilPete> mempool is growing too. :(
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1528 2013-04-03 10:50:18 <Cryo> miner question: if 90% of the results are Refresh work: work expired, my gpu is too slow, right?
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1581 2013-04-03 11:42:45 <[7]> hm, funny, I'm back down to my usual 8 connections
1582 2013-04-03 11:42:55 <[7]> with almost zero trafic
1583 2013-04-03 11:42:59 <[7]> traffic*
1584 2013-04-03 11:42:59 Saberu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1585 2013-04-03 11:43:18 <[7]> just because the USA are still asleep?
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1641 2013-04-03 12:39:14 <aqa> yo fellas
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1691 2013-04-03 13:19:13 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
1692 2013-04-03 13:19:13 <gribble> 229485
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1746 2013-04-03 14:06:06 <CodeShark> MagicalTux, wtf is happening with gox?!?!?
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1760 2013-04-03 14:18:44 <helo> it appears at least that their UI is bottlenecked just as much as their order matching backend
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1769 2013-04-03 14:25:06 <HM> so high load on gox
1770 2013-04-03 14:25:14 <HM> does this mean there's high trading volume atm
1771 2013-04-03 14:25:32 <Scrat> no, trading on gox has halted
1772 2013-04-03 14:27:11 Darin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
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1775 2013-04-03 14:27:29 <jzk> Any reason for halting?
1776 2013-04-03 14:28:43 <BlackPrapor> Scrat: btce is down too
1777 2013-04-03 14:29:18 <Scrat> a combination of DDoS, high interest in bitcoin and a trading engine written in LOGO I assume
1778 2013-04-03 14:29:47 <iwilcox> I'm betting it's based on Conway's Game of Life.
1779 2013-04-03 14:30:07 <Scrat> just need to feed the turtle and it will be ok
1780 2013-04-03 14:30:31 <BlackPrapor> Scrat: it appears that DDoS is genuine interest of newcomers
1781 2013-04-03 14:30:38 <iwilcox> I'm imagining a big screen where they watch all the gliders match trades.
1782 2013-04-03 14:31:01 <Scrat> iwilcox: yeah like a NASA control room with giant screens
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1813 2013-04-03 14:41:57 <HM> More like Kim Jong-il's mission control room
1814 2013-04-03 14:42:03 <HM> NASA have good shit
1815 2013-04-03 14:43:03 <Joric> mtgox just crashed on $141, says Database access error
1816 2013-04-03 14:43:22 <CodeShark> meanwhile the price is dropping on bitstamp
1817 2013-04-03 14:43:40 <Scrat> Joric: been dead for 68 minutes
1818 2013-04-03 14:44:21 Elyria has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1819 2013-04-03 14:44:43 <HM> dropping, or spreading?
1820 2013-04-03 14:44:55 <HM> spreading would make a lot more sense than just dropping
1821 2013-04-03 14:45:27 <CodeShark> what pisses me off is I placed an order that's still pending and I can't cancel it
1822 2013-04-03 14:45:54 systemParanoid has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1823 2013-04-03 14:45:55 <HM> heh, i used to get that all the time on other trading sites (non-Bitcoin)
1824 2013-04-03 14:45:59 <HM> site goes down, everyone panics
1825 2013-04-03 14:46:01 altgribble has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1826 2013-04-03 14:46:23 altgribble has joined
1827 2013-04-03 14:46:23 <HM> good sites have solid policies dictating what happens when they go down
1828 2013-04-03 14:46:37 Elyria has joined
1829 2013-04-03 14:46:41 COGSMITH has joined
1830 2013-04-03 14:46:41 <CodeShark> bitcoin isn't that professional yet :p
1831 2013-04-03 14:46:49 Hasimir has joined
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1839 2013-04-03 14:48:36 <HM> bitstamp have a nice looking site
1840 2013-04-03 14:49:03 Karambol has joined
1841 2013-04-03 14:49:13 <CodeShark> bitstamp's gotten a lot more professional in the last several months
1842 2013-04-03 14:49:19 <HM> you almost can't tell it's bootstrap
1843 2013-04-03 14:49:28 <CodeShark> and gox seems to be going in the opposite direction :p
1844 2013-04-03 14:49:30 <iwilcox> It'll get a baptism of fire if Gox stays down much longer.
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1849 2013-04-03 14:50:38 <CodeShark> at the top gox says I have an open order - but then in my list of open orders, no data available in table
1850 2013-04-03 14:50:43 <CodeShark> total db inconsistency
1851 2013-04-03 14:51:14 <HM> could just be caching
1852 2013-04-03 14:51:21 <HM> assuming they do caching of their frontend
1853 2013-04-03 14:51:22 <CodeShark> ot
1854 2013-04-03 14:51:30 <CodeShark> it's not a consistent state, even if it's cached
1855 2013-04-03 14:51:30 <HM> which doesn't seem likely :/
1856 2013-04-03 14:51:46 <CodeShark> I mean, it wasn't even consistent in the past - let alone the present
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1860 2013-04-03 14:52:33 <CodeShark> so the db operations are not atomic
1861 2013-04-03 14:52:58 <CodeShark> either that or there's a serious bug in the UI
1862 2013-04-03 14:52:59 <Scrat> CodeShark: doing anything financial related without atomic operations is just suicide
1863 2013-04-03 14:53:02 <Scrat> i doubt anyone does that
1864 2013-04-03 14:53:14 <Scrat> well besides coinbase, LOL
1865 2013-04-03 14:53:21 safra has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1867 2013-04-03 14:53:31 <CodeShark> Scrat: this isn't forex...this is bitcoin
1868 2013-04-03 14:53:35 <CodeShark> don't forget :p
1869 2013-04-03 14:53:48 agricocb has joined
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1871 2013-04-03 14:54:18 <Scrat> ( related: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=159935.0 )
1872 2013-04-03 14:55:06 polrpaul has joined
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1878 2013-04-03 14:59:08 <Joric> Scrat, happy debt collecting
1879 2013-04-03 15:00:27 Anduck has joined
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1886 2013-04-03 15:01:50 <HM> i've seen other exchanges go negative
1887 2013-04-03 15:01:54 <HM> and deposit accounts
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1891 2013-04-03 15:04:11 <CodeShark> type over/underflows :)
1892 2013-04-03 15:04:32 <CodeShark> or bad typecasts - or bad parsers
1893 2013-04-03 15:04:40 <HM> yep
1894 2013-04-03 15:04:45 <HM> when you have -2147483647 bitcoins then worry
1895 2013-04-03 15:04:51 <CodeShark> lol
1896 2013-04-03 15:04:54 <HM> or NaN bitcoins
1897 2013-04-03 15:05:01 <HM> then *really* worry
1898 2013-04-03 15:05:29 Joric is now known as GordonGekko
1899 2013-04-03 15:06:47 Faradayy__ is now known as Faraday
1900 2013-04-03 15:07:24 Faraday is now known as Faradayy
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1905 2013-04-03 15:08:50 GordonGekko is now known as Joric
1906 2013-04-03 15:08:55 <HM> is it bad to call your C++ namespace "Json" over "JSON" because it looks better?
1907 2013-04-03 15:09:01 <HM> I have mixed feelings
1908 2013-04-03 15:09:17 <Scrat> too OCD
1909 2013-04-03 15:09:31 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
1910 2013-04-03 15:09:40 <HM> yup
1911 2013-04-03 15:09:42 <Joric> dude, it's JavaScript Object Notation
1912 2013-04-03 15:09:43 <k9quaint> I call my c++ namespace solzhenitsyn
1913 2013-04-03 15:09:46 <Joric> only caps
1914 2013-04-03 15:09:58 <k9quaint> its my damn namespace and you kids need to keep off the grass
1915 2013-04-03 15:10:03 <sipa> clearly it should be JsON
1916 2013-04-03 15:10:15 <CodeShark> where are the Gox people?
1917 2013-04-03 15:10:22 sivu has quit (Changing host)
1918 2013-04-03 15:10:22 sivu has joined
1919 2013-04-03 15:10:30 <k9quaint> CodeShark: feeding the hamster, he is tired
1920 2013-04-03 15:11:03 <HM> I'm going to call JXML
1921 2013-04-03 15:11:04 <HM> for the lulz
1922 2013-04-03 15:11:06 <Joric> CodeShark, 'system went down only for a short time, right now it's kept down by all the people trying to access'
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1928 2013-04-03 15:11:49 <Joric> magic people, voodoo people!
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1934 2013-04-03 15:13:35 Anduck has joined
1935 2013-04-03 15:13:54 <k9quaint> is "the man" trying to access the site?
1936 2013-04-03 15:13:57 systemParanoid has joined
1937 2013-04-03 15:14:03 aqa has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1938 2013-04-03 15:14:44 <Joric> the entire bitcoin network is powered by the mightly hardware... mtgox hosting hardware
1939 2013-04-03 15:14:54 peter9000 has left ()
1940 2013-04-03 15:14:57 <iwilcox> A Mac Mini? :)
1941 2013-04-03 15:15:20 <iwilcox> Maybe a Raspberry Pi.
1942 2013-04-03 15:15:21 <k9quaint> I remember when bitcoincharts used to have red in the website
1943 2013-04-03 15:16:57 uubu has joined
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1947 2013-04-03 15:18:49 <Joric> LTC is at $5 %)
1948 2013-04-03 15:18:52 qdii has joined
1949 2013-04-03 15:19:31 <CodeShark> LTC difficulty is WAAAY up, though
1950 2013-04-03 15:19:49 <k9quaint> wow
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2001 2013-04-03 16:04:47 nikhil_ has joined
2002 2013-04-03 16:05:05 <nikhil_> can anyone offer any pointers if i wanted to implement an exchange in my currency?
2003 2013-04-03 16:05:51 Cache_Money1 has joined
2004 2013-04-03 16:06:28 <k9quaint> nikhil_: what is your currency?
2005 2013-04-03 16:06:59 <HM> New Cypriot Pounds? :p
2006 2013-04-03 16:07:36 <k9quaint> HM: I thought he said currency, not laugh track from an 80's sitcom
2007 2013-04-03 16:08:50 <nikhil_> k9quaint: does that matteR?
2008 2013-04-03 16:09:11 ZeroIce has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2009 2013-04-03 16:09:39 <k9quaint> nikhil_: it would matter for regulatory requirements
2010 2013-04-03 16:09:48 polrpaul has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2011 2013-04-03 16:10:00 <nikhil_> k9quaint: ZAR
2012 2013-04-03 16:10:26 <k9quaint> the rand eh?
2013 2013-04-03 16:10:52 Wildex999 has joined
2014 2013-04-03 16:11:18 <nikhil_> indeed
2015 2013-04-03 16:11:22 <nikhil_> nothing to add?
2016 2013-04-03 16:11:32 Fnar has joined
2017 2013-04-03 16:11:44 <k9quaint> you will need to partner with a bank
2018 2013-04-03 16:12:50 <k9quaint> nikhil_: you ever hear of MTN mobile?
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2025 2013-04-03 16:20:03 <nikhil_> k9quaint: i have
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2030 2013-04-03 16:24:15 <nikhil_> k9quaint: ... ?
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2071 2013-04-03 17:02:17 <skinnkavaj> gavinandresen: don't you agree its time to start lower the standard transaction fee? i know you can't change it, but how can we motivate the market to lower the fee quickly?
2072 2013-04-03 17:02:41 <skinnkavaj> right now transactions is starting to get expensive
2073 2013-04-03 17:02:43 <lianj> yes please
2074 2013-04-03 17:02:47 <skinnkavaj> sipa, what do you think?
2075 2013-04-03 17:02:48 Orbixx_ is now known as Orbixx
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2079 2013-04-03 17:03:49 <CodeShark> larger blocks?
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2082 2013-04-03 17:04:14 <CodeShark> that's in the plans...but can't do it right away since it's a soft fork
2083 2013-04-03 17:04:27 <mintmoney> did i hear someone mention lowering the transaction fees? :)
2084 2013-04-03 17:04:46 <gavinandresen> yes, ask the big mining pools to create larger blocks with more room for free transactions and a -mintxfee=0.0001
2085 2013-04-03 17:05:03 dvide has joined
2086 2013-04-03 17:06:45 <skinnkavaj> gavinandresen: whats the easiest way to contact mining pools?
2087 2013-04-03 17:07:08 <HM> Smoke signals from a fast mining box
2088 2013-04-03 17:07:26 yeahoffline has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2089 2013-04-03 17:07:38 <EPiSKiNG-> https://blockchain.info/address/1BFkQgvuaNnt2VEKm2CHzTJQVsxNm9G471
2090 2013-04-03 17:07:39 <gavinandresen> skinnkavaj: some of them read https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=41.0
2091 2013-04-03 17:07:41 <EPiSKiNG-> 5 hours, no confirms
2092 2013-04-03 17:08:12 <MC-Droid> whats the min fee now given recent bubbles
2093 2013-04-03 17:08:24 <MC-Droid> over 10 cents?
2094 2013-04-03 17:08:40 <gavinandresen> somebody double-check my calculations… at $150/BTC, default fee is 7.5cents per kilobyte. That doesn't feel outrageous to me
2095 2013-04-03 17:09:19 aliveli is now known as taha
2096 2013-04-03 17:09:30 FredEE has joined
2097 2013-04-03 17:09:35 <gmaxwell> MC-Droid: There is no "min fee", but smallest fee not regarded as free is about 7cts/KB US now.
2098 2013-04-03 17:09:35 <gavinandresen> … or less than a 1% fee on a $10 transaction, assuming you don't have a gazillion tiny inputs
2099 2013-04-03 17:09:48 <skinnkavaj> Can anyone please start a forum thread about lowering transaction fees? I have no account at bitcointalk
2100 2013-04-03 17:10:01 <skinnkavaj> we really need to discuss this
2101 2013-04-03 17:10:06 <skinnkavaj> now when btc hit 100 USD
2102 2013-04-03 17:10:07 <MC-Droid> still not too bad
2103 2013-04-03 17:10:19 <gmaxwell> Which yea, doesn't sound especially crazy... esp considering that competition for space makes it attractive to provide a fee to get faster transactions regardless.
2104 2013-04-03 17:10:20 <HM> You want to discuss it but without joining in?
2105 2013-04-03 17:10:24 <MC-Droid> but takes a dollar out of the range of transacting well thogh
2106 2013-04-03 17:10:25 Eneerge has joined
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2111 2013-04-03 17:10:28 <gavinandresen> skinnkavaj: what are you doing where fees are important?
2112 2013-04-03 17:10:45 erska has joined
2113 2013-04-03 17:10:54 <skinnkavaj> gavinandresen: gambling
2114 2013-04-03 17:11:06 <gavinandresen> "doctor, it HURTS when I do this..."
2115 2013-04-03 17:11:13 <HM> Fees are a matter for the official client aren't they? It's not a protocol thing?
2116 2013-04-03 17:11:24 <MC-Droid> i cant really complain, i think bitcoin is done without a worthwhile fees market anyway
2117 2013-04-03 17:11:26 <gavinandresen> There is no official....
2118 2013-04-03 17:11:41 <gmaxwell> Fees are a matter for the market. The base fee that can be safely relayed is a matter for the commonly deployed node software though.
2119 2013-04-03 17:11:51 <gavinandresen> The reference implementation needs to get smarter about fees, I posted a thumnail sketch as to how yesterday, let me find it...
2120 2013-04-03 17:11:58 <MC-Droid> just seems a bit early with like still 3000 dollar subsidy per block
2121 2013-04-03 17:11:59 <HM> "reference" then
2122 2013-04-03 17:12:07 <gmaxwell> I would note that if we improve priority more there would be less concern about reducing the fees required as a POW proxy for relaying.
2123 2013-04-03 17:12:13 <skinnkavaj> gavinandresen: this problem is going to get bigger and bigger when btc rise, so we should discuss this at bitcointalk now
2124 2013-04-03 17:12:14 <gavinandresen> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160306.msg1722532#msg1722532
2125 2013-04-03 17:12:33 <gavinandresen> skinnkavaj: I don't think "we" need to discuss it, "we" just need to write the code.
2126 2013-04-03 17:12:35 <HM> A formal spec on how the reference client treats fees and prioritises transactions and why would be a good thing
2127 2013-04-03 17:12:49 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: we probably need to add a NAK on relay to the protocol.
2128 2013-04-03 17:12:50 FredEE_ has joined
2129 2013-04-03 17:12:53 <gavinandresen> skinnkavaj: … although you might not be happy with where fees end up. It will be a market give&take
2130 2013-04-03 17:12:59 <petertodd> HM: The more interesting thing about fees is how the block subsidy, and blocksize-dependent orphan rate, implies that miners have good reasons to not bother lowering the default 0.0005BTC min fee for low-priority transactions.
2131 2013-04-03 17:13:02 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: ACK on the NACK
2132 2013-04-03 17:13:49 <HM> Yes, it'd be nice if all these subsidies could be summarised somewhere
2133 2013-04-03 17:13:51 FredEE has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2134 2013-04-03 17:13:55 * gavinandresen grumbles about formal specs....
2135 2013-04-03 17:13:56 <HM> I really have no idea how all that fits together
2136 2013-04-03 17:14:08 <gmaxwell> petertodd: they also are incentivized to keep bitcoin easily adopted, though it seems that their bitcoin value won't be threatned by slow transactions soon...
2137 2013-04-03 17:14:10 <petertodd> HM: The "subsidy" I'm referring to is just the inflation schedule.
2138 2013-04-03 17:14:29 <petertodd> gmaxwell: That's an indirect incentive - let the other guy do it.
2139 2013-04-03 17:14:57 FredEE_ is now known as FredEE
2140 2013-04-03 17:15:17 <gmaxwell> petertodd: also— they they cared so much they'd be working on relaying improvements. :P
2141 2013-04-03 17:15:26 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Besides, bitcoin as a store of value is (currently) where the excitement is.
2142 2013-04-03 17:16:00 <HM> Is it?
2143 2013-04-03 17:16:08 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Mining still happens as a (high stakes) hobby. Easiest is to just not touch anything, and developers are expensive.
2144 2013-04-03 17:16:11 <MC-Droid> seems so
2145 2013-04-03 17:16:30 <petertodd> HM: Cyprus got us more press than anything PayPal ever did.
2146 2013-04-03 17:16:44 <gavinandresen> I think a lot of the recent price rise is wealthy people putting a small fraction of their wealth into BTC. Pure speculation, though....
2147 2013-04-03 17:16:52 <HM> But paypal hasn't *done* anything to bring Bitcoin press
2148 2013-04-03 17:16:56 <gavinandresen> (I mean I'm speculating on what the cause is, not that they are speculators)
2149 2013-04-03 17:17:10 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: That sounds reasonable to me. "Oh, I'll put in 5% just for fun, just in case"
2150 2013-04-03 17:17:23 <gavinandresen> more like "Oh I'll put in 0.5% just for fun"
2151 2013-04-03 17:17:55 gagecolton has joined
2152 2013-04-03 17:18:05 <petertodd> gavinandresen: Everyone I know outside of the Bitcoin world who has BTC has them as a speculative investment. Sure people pay for VPN's and what not with them, but when they do that they buy small quantities of coins and get rid of them soon after.
2153 2013-04-03 17:18:07 ligar has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2154 2013-04-03 17:18:18 <HM> I've seen enough here to know Bitcoin is far from technically pure, but read enough elsewhere to know the network effect means it's "it" unless something similar but radically better suddenly appears
2155 2013-04-03 17:18:20 <gavinandresen> Probably more likely: the price rise was started that way, but is now the CNBC crowd looking to catch a bubble on the way up
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2158 2013-04-03 17:18:24 <skinnkavaj> speculation is off topic here
2159 2013-04-03 17:19:10 <gavinandresen> Well, if we're talking about fees then it is somewhat on-topic. Last time we manually adjusted fees the price was at $20 headed to $31 and then a crash….
2160 2013-04-03 17:19:12 <lianj> petertodd: yea, in last weeks btc became useless as payments for me. wanted to buy another ssl cert in btc, but did it with paypal today instead
2161 2013-04-03 17:19:34 <gavinandresen> Danger is we decide "price rose 10x, so we'll drop fees 10x" … and then the price drops back down
2162 2013-04-03 17:19:36 <petertodd> HM: Yup and we probably have basically one shot at making a proof-of-work cryptocurrency happen.
2163 2013-04-03 17:19:54 <HM> But no pressure
2164 2013-04-03 17:19:54 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2165 2013-04-03 17:19:56 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: yep, that happened before too...
2166 2013-04-03 17:20:07 <petertodd> lianj: What specifically made them useless?
2167 2013-04-03 17:20:16 <HM> Just try not to think about the lynchmob who overinvest ;P
2168 2013-04-03 17:21:03 <lianj> petertodd: speculation, you get pulled in by it and start to hold
2169 2013-04-03 17:21:46 <petertodd> lianj: Ah, yeah there's a reason I keep selling off my BTC to keep my portfolio balanced...
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2173 2013-04-03 17:22:10 <lianj> petertodd: that too :)
2174 2013-04-03 17:22:24 Guest61546 has joined
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2176 2013-04-03 17:22:33 <HM> You'd be an idiot not to take some cream off the top during this surge imo
2177 2013-04-03 17:22:39 Guest61546 has left ()
2178 2013-04-03 17:22:56 <HM> Even if it proved to be the wrong decision and it went up to $1000, nobody can argue with a 6x return in 2 months
2179 2013-04-03 17:22:57 <gavinandresen> Sell half every time the price doubles. You'll never run out…. (and now we're REALLY off-topic)
2180 2013-04-03 17:23:12 <HM> Indeed
2181 2013-04-03 17:23:24 nsillik_ has joined
2182 2013-04-03 17:23:25 <lianj> gavinandresen: right to both
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2186 2013-04-03 17:26:25 <lianj> still currently 7 cent as fee seems a bit too much. miner still get 25btc reward, how will it look when its 12.5 etc
2187 2013-04-03 17:26:29 <muhoo> dollar cost averaging
2188 2013-04-03 17:26:49 <muhoo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_cost_averaging
2189 2013-04-03 17:27:27 <petertodd> lianj: When the reward is 12.5BTC, I expect miners to be willing to accept lower fees, all other things remaining the same.
2190 2013-04-03 17:28:02 <muhoo> petertodd: how is your fidelity bond thing coming?
2191 2013-04-03 17:28:35 <lianj> petertodd: why lower and not higher?
2192 2013-04-03 17:29:18 dtotheb has quit (Quit: dtotheb)
2193 2013-04-03 17:29:31 <petertodd> muhoo: Mostly working on pre-reqs to it, such a python-bitcoinlib hacking and working on ways to get real remote-attestation stuff.
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2197 2013-04-03 17:30:10 <petertodd> lianj: Work out how much revenue fees could be with 1MB blocks vs. the subsidy.
2198 2013-04-03 17:30:35 ligar has joined
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2200 2013-04-03 17:31:43 <petertodd> muhoo: Fidelity-bonded banking stuff can work without remote-attestation hardware, but user acceptance will be much easier with. Also gmaxwell came up with a nice way of auditing balances with merkle sum trees that could help audit anyone holding bitcoins on behalf of others.
2201 2013-04-03 17:31:54 <MC-Droid> ahow might txn fee estimation displayed in the client influence the market
2202 2013-04-03 17:32:12 <MC-Droid> seems like a feedback loop could be created there
2203 2013-04-03 17:32:28 <petertodd> MC-Droid: That's the point. We also need tx replacement so you can change fees after the fact.
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2205 2013-04-03 17:32:32 <muhoo> petertodd: i don't know what you mean by "remote-attestation"
2206 2013-04-03 17:32:52 <MC-Droid> with people paying slightly more than the rrcommended "just to make sure"
2207 2013-04-03 17:32:54 <MC-Droid> maybe
2208 2013-04-03 17:33:24 <petertodd> muhoo: Basically hardware that will tell you what software is running on it.
2209 2013-04-03 17:33:45 <muhoo> huh. why would you need that?
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2211 2013-04-03 17:34:20 <muhoo> if you dont' want to get into a long explanation, nevermind, i can read it when there's docs for it
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2214 2013-04-03 17:35:26 <petertodd> muhoo: Long story short, suppose you did have 100% secure remote attestation hardware - you wouldn't need the blockchain at all. You'd simply only accept funds from computers that prove they're running software that *can't* double-spend.
2215 2013-04-03 17:37:11 ticktack has joined
2216 2013-04-03 17:37:21 <muhoo> i can't wait until the phone carriers and software licensing corporations get ahold of remote attestation hardware. "I'm sorry, you can't connect to T-Mobile using Cyanogenmod"
2217 2013-04-03 17:37:25 <petertodd> muhoo: Now with a blockchain, the security doesn't need to be 100%, because you can use the blockchain to provide the flexibility required to upgrade hardware by moving coins back to the blockchain. You can also bound how secure the hardware needs to be, by using fidelity bonds to know how expensive an identity is to replace, and fraud proofs to determine when hardware is broken and limit the damage.
2218 2013-04-03 17:38:00 <petertodd> muhoo: Yup. Remember the controversy about Palladium back in early 2000's?
2219 2013-04-03 17:38:03 <ticktack> just had a question for folks using blockchain... i tried to send some coin (as usual) but for 3 hours the estimated confirmation time has been at 'unknown'.... any ideas?
2220 2013-04-03 17:38:19 <muhoo> vaguely
2221 2013-04-03 17:38:21 <petertodd> ticktack: What fee did you add?
2222 2013-04-03 17:39:23 <petertodd> muhoo: Basically, that was to enable prevasive remote attestation which in turn would have lead to the possibility of very strong limits on what you could dow ith your computer, as you say in your phone example.
2223 2013-04-03 17:39:39 <muhoo> oh yeah, the MSFT DRM thing
2224 2013-04-03 17:39:46 <ticktack> the regular one, "Normal - Follow the fee policy suggested by the mainline bitcoin client. "
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2227 2013-04-03 17:40:37 <petertodd> ticktack: You probably have a zero-fee tx, and it'll be awhile to be confirmed. Set your fee higher to be confirmed faster.
2228 2013-04-03 17:41:13 <ticktack> on blockchain i only see 3 options under account settings, frugal,normal, generous
2229 2013-04-03 17:41:39 <petertodd> ticktack: Generous is fine for now.
2230 2013-04-03 17:42:06 <ticktack> i already sent to an address, changing that setting won't affect it now correct? all i can do is wait?
2231 2013-04-03 17:42:32 emryss has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2232 2013-04-03 17:42:55 <petertodd> ticktack: Pretty much
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2234 2013-04-03 17:43:20 <muhoo> petertodd: sounds like you're making progress. the remote-attestation stuff gives me the creeps, but i'm sure you're thinking it all through. good to know that something is in the works, anyway.
2235 2013-04-03 17:43:21 emryss has joined
2236 2013-04-03 17:43:40 <ticktack> hmm... normally never had this problem... there is no chance the coins won't eventually go through right (the send address is correct)
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2240 2013-04-03 17:45:29 <petertodd> muhoo: Well, remote attestation on PC's with complex software stacks is a nightmare to actually do. What I've been lately working on is a stripped down version based on the merklized abstract syntax tree idea that's been floating around, but done with Forth so mere mortals like myself can reason about it.
2241 2013-04-03 17:45:42 BTCOxygen is now known as Guest89234
2242 2013-04-03 17:46:41 <petertodd> muhoo: It's also important re: FinCEN, because it gives me the option of getting involved in making hardware if required to make it all happen - the hardware is just a computational oracle so obviously has nothing to do with money specifically.
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2244 2013-04-03 17:47:34 <petertodd> ticktack: Yeah, they'll go through eventually. It does help if the recipient respends the funds with a decent fee, as a few miners take that into account.
2245 2013-04-03 17:47:42 johnsoft1 has joined
2246 2013-04-03 17:47:52 <ticktack> the recipient is me, goign back to my bitfloor account
2247 2013-04-03 17:48:14 HiWEB has joined
2248 2013-04-03 17:48:16 <petertodd> ticktack: Did the tx have change?
2249 2013-04-03 17:48:29 <ticktack> what do you mean?
2250 2013-04-03 17:48:38 avantgeek has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2251 2013-04-03 17:48:54 <Goonie_> does anyone here know of a simple linux shell command that serves one directory via http staticly, just for local testing of the bitcoin.org web page. I'm too lazy to install apache just for this purpose.
2252 2013-04-03 17:49:14 <petertodd> ticktack: Transactions usually will have an output representing the change; respend the change with a reasonable fee and the tx can still be confirmed that way.
2253 2013-04-03 17:50:24 johnsoft has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2254 2013-04-03 17:50:33 <sagax_> Goonie_, The SimpleHTTPServer module can also be invoked directly using the -m switch of the interpreter with a port number argument. Similar to the previous example, this serves the files relative to the current directory.
2255 2013-04-03 17:50:33 <sagax_> python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8000
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2259 2013-04-03 17:51:20 <ticktack> @petertodd, sent you a direct message
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2262 2013-04-03 17:54:12 <Goonie_> sagax: neat. unfortunately I get a "Liquid error: No such file or directory - lessc -" and the styling is non-existent. Hmm, looks like the bitcoin.org isn't static as I thought.
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2266 2013-04-03 17:56:23 <muhoo> Goonie_: i use lighthttpd for that kind of thing
2267 2013-04-03 17:56:23 emryss has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2268 2013-04-03 17:57:17 <muhoo> sorry lighttpd
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2273 2013-04-03 18:00:39 <Goonie_> muhoo: lighty seems to need a config file. Can you somehow tell it to just serve a directory on port 8080, and thats it?
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2297 2013-04-03 18:15:25 <amiller> is there any command line way to delete an address
2298 2013-04-03 18:15:34 <amiller> i can see why that is not a desired/recommended thing to provide
2299 2013-04-03 18:15:40 <drizztbsd> yes
2300 2013-04-03 18:15:51 <drizztbsd> !next
2301 2013-04-03 18:15:52 <gribble> Error: "next" is not a valid command.
2302 2013-04-03 18:15:55 <drizztbsd> doh
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2305 2013-04-03 18:18:18 <gavinandresen> amiller: no, there is no way to remove addresses from the bitcoin-qt/bitcoind wallet
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2308 2013-04-03 18:21:40 <gmaxwell> amiller: would you be happy with hiding it from the interface.
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2310 2013-04-03 18:22:17 <amiller> gmaxwell, yeah - even if it's like a compile time flag
2311 2013-04-03 18:22:26 <amiller> -D FOOT_SHOOT
2312 2013-04-03 18:22:47 <gmaxwell> No, I mean... don't delete the address just hide it from the interface.
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2314 2013-04-03 18:23:22 <amiller> well it would start to slow down behavior like rescans if it's still there
2315 2013-04-03 18:24:06 <gmaxwell> amiller: that shouldn't need to be the case. E.g. checking a hashtable is ~O(1)
2316 2013-04-03 18:24:32 <gmaxwell> If that was the concern I'd rather spend time optimizing that than adding foot guns that have public health risks. :)
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2320 2013-04-03 18:27:17 <amiller> yeah, then hiding it from the interface would probably be all i'd need to benefit from then
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2369 2013-04-03 19:10:10 <jspilman> is there reference code or test vectors for BIP32 available yet? I know Wiki says "Come back soon!"
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2380 2013-04-03 19:15:02 <jspilman> BIP32: "When importing a serialized extended public key, implementations must verify whether the X coordinate in the public key data corresponds to a point on the curve. If not, the extended public key is invalid." -- except as we discussed last night, verifying whether *just* the X coordinate corresponds to a point on the curve is not particularly useful.
2381 2013-04-03 19:15:24 BenderCoin has joined
2382 2013-04-03 19:15:34 <jspilman> well, 'night' may be relative ;-)
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2385 2013-04-03 19:16:12 <sipa> jspilman: it has nothing to do with correctness
2386 2013-04-03 19:16:22 <sipa> there's a checksum for that
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2388 2013-04-03 19:16:51 <sipa> jspilman: and we're likely going to change a bit
2389 2013-04-03 19:16:56 <sipa> so no test vectors yet
2390 2013-04-03 19:17:12 <sipa> s/correctness/integrity/
2391 2013-04-03 19:17:58 <jspilman> k, thanks
2392 2013-04-03 19:18:37 <jspilman> HMAC-SHA512(key="Bitcoin seed", msg=S) -- UTF-8?
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2395 2013-04-03 19:20:02 <sipa> jspilman: that should probably be specified, indeed :)
2396 2013-04-03 19:21:15 Luke-Jr has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2402 2013-04-03 19:24:40 <jspilman> I don't get fingerprint... e.g. if you serialize m/0/0 public extended key -- how could you possibly use the first 32-bits of the hash160 of m/0's extended public key?
2403 2013-04-03 19:26:01 <sipa> ?
2404 2013-04-03 19:26:26 <jspilman> it's a field in the serialization format, and the only comment on it is "Note that the fingerprint of the parent only serves as a checksum here..."
2405 2013-04-03 19:27:14 <sipa> a checksum is perhaps the wrong word; it's so you can easily identify a key as being a child of another key you already have
2406 2013-04-03 19:27:20 <jspilman> I guess to figure out where it came from
2407 2013-04-03 19:27:22 <sipa> without needing an exhaustive search
2408 2013-04-03 19:27:23 <jspilman> ok
2409 2013-04-03 19:27:49 <jspilman> thanks again
2410 2013-04-03 19:27:51 <sipa> and when you have that, you do have a way of verifying by redoing the derivation yourself
2411 2013-04-03 19:27:58 <sipa> also, the base58 format has a real checksum
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2414 2013-04-03 19:29:49 <jspilman> the clue is "software must be willing to deal with collisions"
2415 2013-04-03 19:30:21 <sipa> right, indeed
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2417 2013-04-03 19:31:31 <jspilman> I've always found code to be the best spec -- a reference implementation even if it's non-final would be great. is the concern people would start using it before it's ready? or just not written yet?
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2421 2013-04-03 19:34:35 <sipa> there is an implementation for the derivation yes, but i hate to make it public, indeed to prevent people from assuming it's finished
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2441 2013-04-03 19:46:08 <Canar> http://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions - is this a sensible number for unconfirmed tx?
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2456 2013-04-03 19:59:18 <iddo> sipa: did you look at latest posts by gmaxwell and me in deterministic wallets thread ?
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2460 2013-04-03 20:00:37 <iddo> i proposed to tweak bip32 a bit, to deal with the leakage issue
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2472 2013-04-03 20:08:18 <HM2> gah too many layers of indirection
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2478 2013-04-03 20:09:53 * HM2 adds another
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2480 2013-04-03 20:10:27 <sipa> iddo: yes, i saw it
2481 2013-04-03 20:10:52 <sipa> iddo: we've been talking about making the derivation configurably type-1 or type-2
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2498 2013-04-03 20:15:33 <Tantadruj> comboy: what are you using for javascript number crunching?
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2501 2013-04-03 20:16:56 <comboy> Tantadruj: what do you mean? thuru,s not much computation with displaying markets data
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2506 2013-04-03 20:18:48 <Tantadruj> comboy: you're right. What would you use if you had to do some?
2507 2013-04-03 20:19:02 <iddo> sipa: i think that what gmaxwell and i discussed in the thread is quite elegant, we'll just need to warn the user with something like: "WARNING: revealing one privkey in a subaccount will leak all the other privkeys of that particular subaccount"
2508 2013-04-03 20:19:17 <comboy> Tantadruj: no idea, I'm definitely not a js guy
2509 2013-04-03 20:19:40 <iddo> sipa: i don't see why type-1 is useful
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2512 2013-04-03 20:19:51 <Tantadruj> comboy: you're doing pretty good job with bitcoinity though. Thx.
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2515 2013-04-03 20:20:12 <comboy> Tantadruj: thx :)
2516 2013-04-03 20:20:16 <iddo> sipa: any idea about multiplication versus addition? maybe you should benchmark both versions?
2517 2013-04-03 20:20:24 i2pRelay has joined
2518 2013-04-03 20:21:17 <comboy> btw, while spamming in dev, is there currently any plan/ideas of what to do in an apocalyptic event of ECDSA being somehow broken?
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2520 2013-04-03 20:22:11 <sipa> iddo: the idea we were discussing here a few days ago (though i didn't follow the whole discussion), was using one bit of the subkey identifier to denote whether derivation was supposed to be type-2 or not, with wallets defaulting to only scanning for particular derivation types at each depth
2521 2013-04-03 20:22:18 <_dr> in case of emergency, break glass and jump out window
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2523 2013-04-03 20:22:35 <sipa> iddo: if performance is an issue at all, we should use addition instead of multiplication
2524 2013-04-03 20:22:42 <iddo> comboy: just hardfork the protocol with additional signatures schemes that would be allowed, and let users transfer their coins to address of the new type of signatures
2525 2013-04-03 20:22:47 <Vinnie_win> If I sweep some btc into a new address, can I then send from that address to another one of my addresses before any confirmations?
2526 2013-04-03 20:23:11 <sipa> iddo: but if it isn't (and i don't think it is), i don't care
2527 2013-04-03 20:23:26 <iddo> sipa: but what is the advantage of the multiplication variant?
2528 2013-04-03 20:23:26 <sipa> Vinnie_win: the reference client allows spending coins you sent yourself immediately
2529 2013-04-03 20:23:48 <sipa> iddo: that's a good question, and as i said, i can't remember
2530 2013-04-03 20:23:57 <Vinnie_win> sipa: but will other nodes relay the second tx and will miners include it in the block chain how does that work?
2531 2013-04-03 20:24:14 <sipa> Vinnie_win: sure, the protocol allows 0-conf spending
2532 2013-04-03 20:24:34 <sipa> iddo: i wanted to aovid changing the spec if not necessary, but if we have to, i don't mind changing the mult to add as well
2533 2013-04-03 20:24:36 <comboy> iddo: I wonder if it could be so severe that you couldn't be sure who's actually an owner of given coins
2534 2013-04-03 20:24:44 <iddo> sipa: why type-1 is needed? gmaxwell endorsed that? can you please mention why the idea that gmaxwell and i described in the last posts of the thread isn't good enough?
2535 2013-04-03 20:25:46 emryss has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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2537 2013-04-03 20:25:49 <sipa> iddo: ... it's exactly what you're describing, as far as i can see?
2538 2013-04-03 20:25:54 <iddo> sipa: yes i see that some authors already started to implement bip32, but still, if there's a good time to change it, it's now, and the use cases with security risks that were described in the thread seems practical
2539 2013-04-03 20:26:01 parasciidic has quit (Quit: Quit:)
2540 2013-04-03 20:26:26 <sipa> iddo: except making it not hardcodedly linked to the tree level
2541 2013-04-03 20:27:12 ZeroIce has joined
2542 2013-04-03 20:27:25 <iddo> sipa: what i suggested is really a tiny modification to the current bip32, that seems to solve the concern we had as best as we could do, i think
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2547 2013-04-03 20:27:57 <iddo> i don't see why you'd extra bit to tell if it's type-1 or type-2
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2549 2013-04-03 20:28:09 <sipa> iddo: you suggest using type-1 for everything up to subaccounts, and type-2 below that, no?
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2551 2013-04-03 20:28:35 <iddo> up to subaccounts is just one level, right?
2552 2013-04-03 20:29:00 <sipa> eh, depending from which side you look at it
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2554 2013-04-03 20:29:06 <Vinnie_win> sipa: I want to send a large amount but I'm scared
2555 2013-04-03 20:29:10 <iddo> random seed --> type-1 derivation to the subaccounts --> type derivations from there
2556 2013-04-03 20:29:41 <sipa> iddo: right, but i don't want to have the wallet layout and the key tree derivation influence each other
2557 2013-04-03 20:30:04 <sipa> iddo: clients should be free to use any wallet layout they want - there is just a default for easy interaction
2558 2013-04-03 20:30:27 <sipa> so that may mean introducing an extra level somewhere to have subwallets that can be individually shared for example
2559 2013-04-03 20:30:42 <sipa> Vinnie_win: why?
2560 2013-04-03 20:30:42 <iddo> hmm
2561 2013-04-03 20:31:12 <Vinnie_win> sipa: I'm worried that the transaction will somehow get stuck and wont confirm and I wont be able to spend it
2562 2013-04-03 20:31:42 <sipa> Vinnie_win: then wait :)
2563 2013-04-03 20:32:00 <Vinnie_win> sipa: I already got a couple confirms but I am still feeling anxiety. The cost of a fuckup would be enormous
2564 2013-04-03 20:32:35 <panzerfaust> why not send it in multiple smaller chunks
2565 2013-04-03 20:33:31 <Vinnie_win> panzerfaust: I don't have a good answer to that. I prefer fewer transactions over more
2566 2013-04-03 20:33:51 <iddo> sipa: i'm not sure if i understand what you said, it seems to me that forcing each derivation of the random seed to the next level to be type-1 style, and labelling each such derivation as "subaccount", and then allowing the user to do any layouts he wishes from there, that's good flexibility, no?
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2572 2013-04-03 20:35:19 <iddo> it's actually more flexibility than current bip32, we simply allow the user to create subaccounts where leakage of privkey in a subaccount doesn't affect the other subaccounts
2573 2013-04-03 20:35:31 <sipa> iddo: i'll think about it; perhaps gmaxwell and etotheipi__ have opinions as well
2574 2013-04-03 20:35:50 <iddo> yes cool
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2577 2013-04-03 20:36:04 <iddo> (it's was gmaxwell idea's in the first place)
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2581 2013-04-03 20:37:25 <iddo> sipa: about addition vs multiplication, as far as i could see they're equivalent security-wise, are you sure that the additive version is faster? (you have to multiply curve points and then add)
2582 2013-04-03 20:37:59 <sipa> iddo: hmm?
2583 2013-04-03 20:38:35 <sipa> iddo: it would be parent+num*G instead of parent*num
2584 2013-04-03 20:38:51 <sipa> iddo: multiplication with G is faster than with arbitrary points
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2586 2013-04-03 20:40:01 <iddo> additive is K_par+I_L*G and multiplicative is K_par*I_L ?
2587 2013-04-03 20:40:11 <iddo> ok
2588 2013-04-03 20:40:45 <iddo> well, if you're certain that additive is faster, then why not use it....
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2594 2013-04-03 20:42:44 <mikewww> hey guys i need some help
2595 2013-04-03 20:42:47 <greenglue> hi
2596 2013-04-03 20:42:48 <greenglue> yes?
2597 2013-04-03 20:43:03 <mikewww> i did two $500 transfers thru bitinstant directly to my blockchain.info wallet address
2598 2013-04-03 20:43:08 Thepok has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2599 2013-04-03 20:43:11 <greenglue> yes...
2600 2013-04-03 20:43:20 <mikewww> the second transaction has confirmed successfully, but the first remains unconfirmed
2601 2013-04-03 20:43:29 <greenglue> what is the blockchain ID/link
2602 2013-04-03 20:43:31 <greenglue> for both
2603 2013-04-03 20:43:31 <sipa> how long has it been?
2604 2013-04-03 20:43:33 <mikewww> the transaciton on blockchain wallet shows that its unconfirmed, and it shows 0% network propagation (2 nodes)..but 15 minutes ago it said 5% propogation and 45 nodes
2605 2013-04-03 20:43:36 <mikewww> how can that go DOWN ?
2606 2013-04-03 20:43:47 <greenglue> sometimes it takes a while, some of mine took at least 2 hours.
2607 2013-04-03 20:43:50 zrad has joined
2608 2013-04-03 20:43:50 <sipa> a bug in blockchain.info?
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2611 2013-04-03 20:43:58 <sipa> don't rely on it
2612 2013-04-03 20:44:11 <mikewww> this is over 2 hours
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2614 2013-04-03 20:44:17 <mikewww> here is the first transaction that remains unconfirmed
2615 2013-04-03 20:44:17 <greenglue> 3hrs?
2616 2013-04-03 20:44:19 <mikewww> https://blockchain.info/tx/05c6837b6d6374e6810b005251922f136f62ade9f288409bbb358946dd355f04
2617 2013-04-03 20:44:19 <greenglue> ok
2618 2013-04-03 20:44:20 MiningBuddy has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2619 2013-04-03 20:44:49 <mikewww> yea about 3 hours
2620 2013-04-03 20:44:55 <greenglue> hmm
2621 2013-04-03 20:44:56 <greenglue> yea
2622 2013-04-03 20:45:08 darkee_ has joined
2623 2013-04-03 20:45:11 <mikewww> the second bitinstant transaction confirmed very fast
2624 2013-04-03 20:45:11 <mikewww> https://blockchain.info/tx/caf8f87091e2301b92e8be7bf28b1ede54ede6be9bcc3486cd1350846435e7a2
2625 2013-04-03 20:45:20 kuzetsa has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2626 2013-04-03 20:45:21 <greenglue> well keep waiting! i hate to say but sometimes it is faster than others
2627 2013-04-03 20:46:04 <mikewww> ok i wasnt sure if something got messed up since the network propgation was decreasing
2628 2013-04-03 20:46:47 kuzetsa has joined
2629 2013-04-03 20:47:06 <greenglue> that is a bug on blockchain probably
2630 2013-04-03 20:47:23 darkee has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2631 2013-04-03 20:47:32 MiningBuddy has joined
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2634 2013-04-03 20:47:49 Thepok has joined
2635 2013-04-03 20:48:30 <iddo> sipa: btw, if someone loses his type-2 wallet and has old backup, should the client have an algorithm that restores all his keys, i think by trying to derive each branch and see if the next derived address was active in the blockchain, until reaching an address that was never active?
2636 2013-04-03 20:48:55 <iddo> but if users can choose custom layouts, then we wouldn't know the structure of the branches?
2637 2013-04-03 20:49:09 <sipa> up to implementions, i'd say
2638 2013-04-03 20:49:25 pizzacat has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2639 2013-04-03 20:49:36 <sipa> you can do pretty powerful structure reconstruction if you have a high branching factor when scanning
2640 2013-04-03 20:49:45 <sipa> but it becomes more expensive as well of course
2641 2013-04-03 20:49:55 HiWEB has joined
2642 2013-04-03 20:50:00 <Eliel> would it be possible to somehow include data in the transactions that the recovery process can use to figure out what has been used and what hasn't.
2643 2013-04-03 20:50:35 <iddo> ok cool, i guess the satoshi client could implement particular layout and have algorithm that restores that layout?
2644 2013-04-03 20:50:59 <sipa> Eliel: imho, no; relying on the blockchain to not lose your money is fine, but using the blockchain as your wallet... abusive
2645 2013-04-03 20:51:53 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2646 2013-04-03 20:52:10 greenglue has left ()
2647 2013-04-03 20:52:20 <Eliel> sipa: I mean, the address has a lot of bits, maybe there's some way to use those to store some status information.
2648 2013-04-03 20:52:21 i2pRelay has joined
2649 2013-04-03 20:52:40 <Eliel> but in a way that makes no sense without the root key
2650 2013-04-03 20:53:18 <sipa> technically, that's already what you do: by trying different branches that may or may not exist in the chain with their corresponding addresses, you store the structure in the chain
2651 2013-04-03 20:53:50 <sam> midnightmagic: any way you can unban me from #bitcoin?
2652 2013-04-03 20:53:54 [\\\]_w has joined
2653 2013-04-03 20:55:14 monad7 has joined
2654 2013-04-03 20:55:16 <monad7> hello
2655 2013-04-03 20:55:28 agricocb has joined
2656 2013-04-03 20:55:35 jtimon_ has joined
2657 2013-04-03 20:55:47 <monad7> I have a transaction 26b41539126c8ad4f0586e84b1ac67ea18fa9eb30ef92d6a4cdddf3c5896fbae. bitcoind gettransaction works, but getrawtransaction returns error: {"code":-5,"message":"No information available about transaction"}. Why?
2658 2013-04-03 20:55:49 jtimon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2659 2013-04-03 20:55:53 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2660 2013-04-03 20:55:59 <BCB> how do I listaccounts with a balance
2661 2013-04-03 20:56:00 <Luke-Jr> monad7: you probably spent it
2662 2013-04-03 20:56:05 Monarch02 has left ()
2663 2013-04-03 20:56:07 <sipa> monad7: you need to run with txindex to be able to lookup arbitrary transactions
2664 2013-04-03 20:56:29 <monad7> ok, hrm
2665 2013-04-03 20:56:35 RoboTeddy has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2666 2013-04-03 20:57:39 <BCB> how do I listaccounts with a balance - anyone
2667 2013-04-03 20:57:54 <sipa> BCB: i have no idea what you mean
2668 2013-04-03 20:58:07 Tantadruj has quit (Quit: DoubleRecall Turns Paywalls Into Advertising Dollars - NYTimes.com http://nyti.ms/odHOgy)
2669 2013-04-03 20:58:09 <BCB> listaccounts bring up everysingle account
2670 2013-04-03 20:58:21 polaman has joined
2671 2013-04-03 20:58:21 <BCB> I only want to see the accounts that have a balance
2672 2013-04-03 20:58:23 <monad7> sipa: ok, how would I run with txindex?
2673 2013-04-03 20:58:32 <monad7> the output index is 1
2674 2013-04-03 20:58:49 Prattler has joined
2675 2013-04-03 20:58:50 normanrichards has joined
2676 2013-04-03 20:58:50 <Luke-Jr> monad7: stick txindex=1 in your bitcoin.conf, and (first time only) start your client with the -reindex option
2677 2013-04-03 20:58:52 <sipa> monad7: put txindex=1 in your bitcoin.conf, and -reindex
2678 2013-04-03 20:59:07 <monad7> woah
2679 2013-04-03 20:59:48 <Luke-Jr> monad7: note reindexing will take hours
2680 2013-04-03 20:59:54 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2681 2013-04-03 20:59:54 <monad7> woah
2682 2013-04-03 21:00:25 i2pRelay has joined
2683 2013-04-03 21:01:28 <sipa> ?
2684 2013-04-03 21:01:56 wizkid057 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2685 2013-04-03 21:03:02 <monad7> is there a way to tell when reindexing is complete?
2686 2013-04-03 21:03:48 jh2o2389 has joined
2687 2013-04-03 21:04:03 <Luke-Jr> monad7: when the progress bar reaches the end?
2688 2013-04-03 21:05:43 <jh2o2389> hey guys, when I send 1 BTC from A to B, with a fee of 0.1 BTC, where does the fee of 0.1 go?
2689 2013-04-03 21:05:48 basylib is now known as abueesp
2690 2013-04-03 21:05:52 abueesp is now known as basylib
2691 2013-04-03 21:06:17 djworth has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2692 2013-04-03 21:06:29 whizter has joined
2693 2013-04-03 21:06:43 basylib is now known as abueesp
2694 2013-04-03 21:07:06 abueesp is now known as unauth
2695 2013-04-03 21:07:12 <HM2> jh2o2389: the miner
2696 2013-04-03 21:07:12 unauth is now known as basylib
2697 2013-04-03 21:07:54 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2698 2013-04-03 21:08:01 <jh2o2389> jh2o2389: ok. so, is there a pool btc adress, for the miners?
2699 2013-04-03 21:08:15 [\\\]_w is now known as [\\\]
2700 2013-04-03 21:08:23 i2pRelay has joined
2701 2013-04-03 21:09:37 <jh2o2389> HM2: maybe there is a sequence chart, where I can follow the logic. But your answere solved the 2. question. Thank you.
2702 2013-04-03 21:10:21 LainZ has joined
2703 2013-04-03 21:11:38 gaantr2 has joined
2704 2013-04-03 21:11:57 Jag has joined
2705 2013-04-03 21:12:04 <EvilPete> 5k mempool transactions..
2706 2013-04-03 21:12:09 <jh2o2389> my third question is: which concepts exists to solve the scaling of transaction 'problem'. Is there a place, where I can follow the ideas how to handle this?
2707 2013-04-03 21:12:29 [\\\] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2708 2013-04-03 21:13:24 RoboTeddy has joined
2709 2013-04-03 21:14:41 lnostdal has joined
2710 2013-04-03 21:14:58 RoboTeddy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2711 2013-04-03 21:15:03 <HM2> jh2o2389: bitcointalk, and the wiki maybe
2712 2013-04-03 21:15:12 RoboTeddy has joined
2713 2013-04-03 21:15:19 <lnostdal> hi, new release just 30 minutes ago? .. just heard about it – any chanelog i can read?
2714 2013-04-03 21:15:41 <sipa> lnostdal: last bitcoin-qt release is 0.8.1, and a few weeks old
2715 2013-04-03 21:15:53 <lnostdal> i suppose this is a scam then: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoinqt/files/
2716 2013-04-03 21:15:56 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2717 2013-04-03 21:15:59 <lnostdal> (from http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1bm27l/dont_lose_your_bitcoins_update_your_bitcoinqt/ )
2718 2013-04-03 21:16:19 <jh2o2389> HM2: ok. Thank you.
2719 2013-04-03 21:16:24 <sipa> lnostdal: looks like it
2720 2013-04-03 21:16:35 i2pRelay has joined
2721 2013-04-03 21:17:25 <lnostdal> nasty
2722 2013-04-03 21:17:49 denisx has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2723 2013-04-03 21:18:07 denisx has joined
2724 2013-04-03 21:18:15 <HM2> someone should report that to sourceforge
2725 2013-04-03 21:18:55 Happzz has joined
2726 2013-04-03 21:20:19 Jag has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2727 2013-04-03 21:20:19 monad7 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2728 2013-04-03 21:20:44 abadr has joined
2729 2013-04-03 21:20:49 systemParanoid has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2730 2013-04-03 21:21:01 <lnostdal> they have a support channel #sourceforge .. i mentioned it there
2731 2013-04-03 21:22:08 <sipa> 0 downloads, and the reddit link was deleted
2732 2013-04-03 21:22:57 <HM2> https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/d403d5e6ffd9bee7dd75733299f2f133362518ff8516e67d1c3e187d129e45cc/analysis/1365022787/
2733 2013-04-03 21:23:16 Muis_ has joined
2734 2013-04-03 21:23:28 <HM2> they couldnt' even be bothered to write it in C++ :P
2735 2013-04-03 21:23:56 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2737 2013-04-03 21:24:45 Muis has quit (Ping timeout: 257 seconds)
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2739 2013-04-03 21:24:55 Muis_ is now known as Muis
2740 2013-04-03 21:25:08 brson has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2741 2013-04-03 21:25:47 Internet13 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2742 2013-04-03 21:26:24 chmod755 has quit (Quit: chmod755)
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2744 2013-04-03 21:27:04 Greenhorn_ has joined
2745 2013-04-03 21:27:12 wizkid057 has joined
2746 2013-04-03 21:27:28 <Greenhorn_> Hi. Is there a channel or forum for web application development?
2747 2013-04-03 21:27:42 BlackPrapor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2748 2013-04-03 21:27:52 Davincij15 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2749 2013-04-03 21:28:05 PiZZaMaN2K has joined
2750 2013-04-03 21:28:10 PiZZaMaN2K has quit (Changing host)
2751 2013-04-03 21:28:10 PiZZaMaN2K has joined
2752 2013-04-03 21:28:25 <abadr> Greenhorn_: this one has been good enough for my purposes
2753 2013-04-03 21:28:52 brson has joined
2754 2013-04-03 21:30:13 * HM2 mulls over boost::optional.
2755 2013-04-03 21:30:37 * HM2 wonders if it's really sensible to express requiredness as a static type
2756 2013-04-03 21:31:00 <sipa> HM2: hell yes - but it should be easy :)
2757 2013-04-03 21:31:18 <HM2> well it kinda is
2758 2013-04-03 21:31:44 <HM2> but a password may be optional if someone doesn't specify a username, but required if they do
2759 2013-04-03 21:31:46 <sipa> (i.e. Haskell's Maybe or ML's option)
2760 2013-04-03 21:31:52 <HM2> so that doesn't really belong in the type system
2761 2013-04-03 21:31:59 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2762 2013-04-03 21:32:17 <sipa> sure, but how useful would be to have for example a pointer type that is guaranteed not to be NULL?
2763 2013-04-03 21:32:29 <HM2> we call those references
2764 2013-04-03 21:32:32 i2pRelay has joined
2765 2013-04-03 21:32:42 <HM2> well, if used sensibly
2766 2013-04-03 21:32:42 <sipa> meh, that's not a type
2767 2013-04-03 21:32:45 BlackPrapor has joined
2768 2013-04-03 21:32:59 <HM2> hrrm
2769 2013-04-03 21:33:02 <sipa> a reference isn't assignable
2770 2013-04-03 21:33:12 <sipa> well, it is, but you can't change what it points to
2771 2013-04-03 21:33:13 <HM2> it's immutable, sure
2772 2013-04-03 21:33:22 <HM2> but it is a type.
2773 2013-04-03 21:33:56 _pr has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2774 2013-04-03 21:34:01 <HM2> see I have these helper functions that read json values using JSON spirit, and I'm trying to tidy up the naming
2775 2013-04-03 21:34:45 <HM2> so read_value(...) on a boost::optional won't throw an exception if the value is missing (but will if it's the wrong type)
2776 2013-04-03 21:34:54 <HM2> but it'll throw if it's not optional
2777 2013-04-03 21:35:56 monad7 has joined
2778 2013-04-03 21:36:02 <HM2> overloading bool, int and float types are fun
2779 2013-04-03 21:36:02 Greenhorn_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2780 2013-04-03 21:37:23 faidell has joined
2781 2013-04-03 21:37:41 <HM2> still, the good thing about these helpers is the load/save code for my json is shorter than the minimum json document
2782 2013-04-03 21:38:43 Wildex999 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2783 2013-04-03 21:38:44 <HM2> I'm trying to mimic protocol buffers required / optional semantics
2784 2013-04-03 21:39:54 polrpaul has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2785 2013-04-03 21:39:55 <monad7> can bitcoind list unconfirmed transactions?
2786 2013-04-03 21:39:57 Internet13 has joined
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2788 2013-04-03 21:40:19 mikewww has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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2790 2013-04-03 21:41:25 <Luke-Jr> monad7: getrawmempool
2791 2013-04-03 21:41:25 <helo> monad7: it can list unconfirmed transactions sent to your addresses, at least
2792 2013-04-03 21:41:37 gaantr2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2793 2013-04-03 21:42:26 <monad7> Luke-Jr thanks!
2794 2013-04-03 21:42:32 <monad7> helo: how?
2795 2013-04-03 21:43:29 PiZZaMaN2K is now known as PiZZaMaN2K|away
2796 2013-04-03 21:43:46 Belkaar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2798 2013-04-03 21:44:46 <helo> monad7: they're shown in 'listtransactions'
2799 2013-04-03 21:45:56 deadweasel has joined
2800 2013-04-03 21:46:00 <monad7> helo: thanks
2801 2013-04-03 21:47:55 zooko` has joined
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2803 2013-04-03 21:48:04 <thermoman> is there an rpc call to close/open the debug log so i can e.g. rotate it?
2804 2013-04-03 21:48:08 zooko has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2805 2013-04-03 21:48:16 <monad7> how could getbalance return a negitive number ?
2806 2013-04-03 21:48:35 i2pRelay has joined
2807 2013-04-03 21:48:39 <sipa> because there's more sent from the account than to it?
2808 2013-04-03 21:48:58 <sipa> remember, accounts have nothing to do with actual coins; the total balance of a wallet will always be >=0
2809 2013-04-03 21:49:03 zooko` is now known as zooko
2810 2013-04-03 21:49:04 <jh2o2389> Maybe the scaling of transactions would work better, if clients could mine with 'their bandwidth' instead of cpu/gpu power. Clients seed the transactions, and get paid for their ressources. Its just an idea.
2811 2013-04-03 21:49:21 Belkaar has joined
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2813 2013-04-03 21:49:53 <monad7> sipa ok
2814 2013-04-03 21:50:05 <monad7> root@ip-10-12-182-145:/home/ubuntu# ./bitcoin/src/bitcoind listaccounts { "" : 0.00000000, "jp" : 0.00000000, "teh tower" : -0.60450000 }
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2818 2013-04-03 21:53:31 <helo> jh2o2389: that's not really where scaling bottlenecks are of immediate concern, i don't think
2819 2013-04-03 21:53:38 <monad7> sipa: shouldn't all the accounts sum to >= 0?
2820 2013-04-03 21:53:39 testnode9 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2821 2013-04-03 21:53:49 qeb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2822 2013-04-03 21:54:05 <sipa> monad7: eh, yes...
2823 2013-04-03 21:54:11 <monad7> hrm
2824 2013-04-03 21:54:12 <monad7> not happening here
2825 2013-04-03 21:54:19 <sipa> monad7: though there may be some quirks if you have unconfirmed coins, i think
2826 2013-04-03 21:54:27 <monad7> ./bitcoin/src/bitcoind listaccounts { "" : 0.00000000, "jp" : 0.00000000, "teh tower" : -0.60450000 }
2827 2013-04-03 21:54:29 <monad7> hrmm
2828 2013-04-03 21:54:29 mologie has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2829 2013-04-03 21:54:47 <sipa> the whole accounts system is a half-finished hack, imho
2830 2013-04-03 21:54:54 Darin has joined
2831 2013-04-03 21:55:08 <sipa> it's useful for one use case, but confuses everyone else :)
2832 2013-04-03 21:55:09 <helo> something unconfirmed maybe?
2833 2013-04-03 21:55:29 yes_33_yes has joined
2834 2013-04-03 21:55:38 <monad7> na
2835 2013-04-03 21:55:44 <monad7> its quite strange
2836 2013-04-03 21:56:02 <jh2o2389> helo: what are the scaling bottlenecks of immediate concern?
2837 2013-04-03 21:56:04 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2839 2013-04-03 21:56:50 <Luke-Jr> any gitian guys around?
2840 2013-04-03 21:57:12 <sipa> thermoman: yes, you can send a signal for that, afaik
2841 2013-04-03 21:57:21 <helo> jh2o2389: fixed block size
2842 2013-04-03 21:57:39 <helo> jh2o2389: not exactly "immediate" concern, but "forthcoming" at least
2843 2013-04-03 21:57:47 * jh2o2389 nods
2844 2013-04-03 21:57:57 <sipa> well, the concern is total transaction rate
2845 2013-04-03 21:58:03 <sipa> one way of dealing with it is the block size
2846 2013-04-03 21:58:31 <jh2o2389> helo: I understand. Thank you.
2847 2013-04-03 21:58:38 gaantr2 has joined
2848 2013-04-03 21:59:45 <Luke-Jr> sipa: got time for gitian builds?
2849 2013-04-03 22:00:44 random_cat has joined
2850 2013-04-03 22:00:58 Hawkwood has joined
2851 2013-04-03 22:01:58 <sipa> Luke-Jr: in half an hour i'll be home, yes
2852 2013-04-03 22:02:36 <monad7> will bitcoind 'do the right thing' if i move out wallet.dat?
2853 2013-04-03 22:02:45 <Luke-Jr> monad7: if you shut it down cleanly first
2854 2013-04-03 22:02:50 Jere_Jones has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2855 2013-04-03 22:02:51 <sipa> it'll create a new one
2856 2013-04-03 22:03:01 <sipa> and indeed, only do it after a clean shutdown
2857 2013-04-03 22:03:01 Jere_Jones has joined
2858 2013-04-03 22:03:07 <monad7> ok
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2873 2013-04-03 22:16:21 <btcfaucet> good day!
2874 2013-04-03 22:16:47 Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2875 2013-04-03 22:17:32 <btcfaucet> Got a transaction (taken from 'listtransactions'). over 24 hours, 0 confirms, other transactions around it >100 confirms, txid not visible when searched on blockchain.info. Is there some explanation to this other than the user having peered with the bitcoin daemon to create a fake trx?
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2881 2013-04-03 22:21:20 <thermoman> sipa: is that signal documented somewhere?
2882 2013-04-03 22:22:10 MC-Droid has quit (Quit: Bye)
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2898 2013-04-03 22:30:25 <sipa> thermoman: kill -HUP
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2902 2013-04-03 22:32:10 <tigger0> can bloom filters be configured for block validation and not just transactions?
2903 2013-04-03 22:32:19 <tigger0> could speed up propagation time of a block which is always good
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2910 2013-04-03 22:36:11 <kapiteined> hi, when i use validateaddress in the console, the pubkey shown seems to short to be a real pubkey, what is shown there ?
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2915 2013-04-03 22:38:29 <AdamBLevine> Hi there, I'm writing a story about Bitcoin intended for new users, and I had a question - Is there any way to tell how many bitcoin addresses have more than 1000BTC in them?
2916 2013-04-03 22:38:46 stikonas has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2917 2013-04-03 22:38:49 <graingert> AdamBLevine: yes
2918 2013-04-03 22:38:56 <AdamBLevine> Can you point me to that number?
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2922 2013-04-03 22:39:36 <graingert> AdamBLevine: all transactions are public, so you can trace it with a copy off the blockchain
2923 2013-04-03 22:39:38 <gmaxwell> AdamBLevine: An address having a lot of coin in it isn't especially informative.. there are many wallets with more than 1000 BTC without having 1000 BTC in any one address: sane bitcoin software spreads things out over multiple addresses.
2924 2013-04-03 22:39:45 <AdamBLevine> Also, if anyone wants to check the article for mistakes I would appreciate it https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pSeERbQgwtbaWGElVV_7VQW7V4FgZwsvVfAl_-_hJ40/edit?usp=sharing
2925 2013-04-03 22:39:51 <AdamBLevine> You can leave comments
2926 2013-04-03 22:40:10 <gmaxwell> AdamBLevine: most very large addresses are things like storage addresses for exchanges and such... and don't reflect one person's coin owernship.
2927 2013-04-03 22:40:12 toffoo has joined
2928 2013-04-03 22:40:12 <AdamBLevine> @Gmaxwell - Is there any way to tell how many individuals have more than 1000btc? I didn't think there was so I wasn't going to try
2929 2013-04-03 22:41:18 <AdamBLevine> I'm making the arguement at the end that after the anonymous 28,000USD bitcoin donation to a philsophy podcast, we're poised to enter a very interesting period for funding "dream" projects on the web - Bitcoin turning the whole internet into kickstarter
2930 2013-04-03 22:41:47 <AdamBLevine> I pitched it to make, but they said it wasn't DIY enough
2931 2013-04-03 22:41:51 <AdamBLevine> I disagreed, but what can you do
2932 2013-04-03 22:42:05 <graingert> AdamBLevine: you can press tab when saying a name in IRC to auto fill it
2933 2013-04-03 22:42:16 <graingert> AdamBLevine: but don't start with an @
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2935 2013-04-03 22:42:32 <AdamBLevine> graingert: got it, that's neat I did not know
2936 2013-04-03 22:42:54 i2pRelay has joined
2937 2013-04-03 22:42:56 <graingert> AdamBLevine: it saves lots of time
2938 2013-04-03 22:43:02 <AdamBLevine> graingert: I can see
2939 2013-04-03 22:44:51 svara has joined
2940 2013-04-03 22:44:52 <AdamBLevine> gmaxwell: Any suggestions on how to get some kind of ballpark number on individuals with more than 1000 bitcoins?
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2942 2013-04-03 22:45:18 <AdamBLevine> Doesn't need to be exact, but I need to know if I'm talking about 100, 1000, 10,000 50,000 etc
2943 2013-04-03 22:45:36 ZeroIce has joined
2944 2013-04-03 22:46:07 <graingert> AdamBLevine: the protocol was designed to make that difficult
2945 2013-04-03 22:46:16 <gmaxwell> AdamBLevine: thats deeply unknowable.
2946 2013-04-03 22:46:17 <AdamBLevine> yes I'm aware :)
2947 2013-04-03 22:46:19 <AdamBLevine> Ok
2948 2013-04-03 22:46:24 <AdamBLevine> Any guess?
2949 2013-04-03 22:46:24 <gmaxwell> I suppose mtgox knows a lower bound.
2950 2013-04-03 22:46:31 <gmaxwell> but they're not telling.
2951 2013-04-03 22:46:48 <AdamBLevine> Ok than I guess that's the answer
2952 2013-04-03 22:46:52 <graingert> AdamBLevine: wouldn't dare to guess
2953 2013-04-03 22:46:55 <gmaxwell> I don't even know how to guess. :(
2954 2013-04-03 22:47:10 <AdamBLevine> Anybody with a bunch of Bitcoins want to be interviewed anonymously?
2955 2013-04-03 22:47:31 <gmaxwell> ;;bc,blocks
2956 2013-04-03 22:47:31 <gribble> 229551
2957 2013-04-03 22:47:34 <AdamBLevine> Anybody planning on being a philanthropist once Bitcoin finishes revaluing to some crazy number?
2958 2013-04-03 22:47:57 <sanchaz> AdamBLevine: me, i mean why not
2959 2013-04-03 22:48:06 <sanchaz> if ever gets to that sure
2960 2013-04-03 22:48:09 rdymac has joined
2961 2013-04-03 22:48:12 <sanchaz> spread some wealth
2962 2013-04-03 22:48:25 <AdamBLevine> Want to go to a private channel, skype, email, or in public here?
2963 2013-04-03 22:48:27 <gmaxwell> And there are only about 10,988,775 bitcoins, so the number of people with >1000 must be less than 10988.
2964 2013-04-03 22:48:38 <Darin> adamblevine: do you consider blow and hookers philanthropy
2965 2013-04-03 22:49:00 <gmaxwell> So, I can confidntly say that [1,10988] are lower and upper bounds.
2966 2013-04-03 22:49:21 <AdamBLevine> Darin: More talking Leonardo DiVinci's backer - that sort of patron
2967 2013-04-03 22:49:41 <AdamBLevine> gmaxwell: i'm going to quote you on that
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2970 2013-04-03 22:51:04 <dnathe4th> AdamBLevine: go with [1, 10987], because i'm not one
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2974 2013-04-03 22:52:32 <midnightmagic> AdamBLevine: It's logically impossible for it to be any other way! :)
2975 2013-04-03 22:52:34 <gmaxwell> dnathe4th: you not being one doesn't help. If, instead, you have 999 BTC but not 1000 that would help. :P
2976 2013-04-03 22:52:46 <HM2> anyone know a quick way to make cmake use clang++ ?
2977 2013-04-03 22:52:48 <dnathe4th> right. math. how does it work
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2986 2013-04-03 22:54:16 <EvilPete> wow.. https://blockchain.info/block-index/370507 with **4** transactions and we have a backlog of 5200+
2987 2013-04-03 22:54:17 <gmaxwell> AdamBLevine: be careful to not fall into the market cap fallacy. The last bitcoin sold on mtgox might have sold for $130 ... but if people tried to sell all 10.9 million bitcoin at once the price would not be $130. ... though the current market does support selling a few thousand without enormously moving the price.
2988 2013-04-03 22:54:29 <neo2> i'm thinking about making a paper wallet/private key to which i'll send btc from time to time. is it the right way to deposit btc in a saving box?
2989 2013-04-03 22:54:46 <AdamBLevine> gmaxwell: I've been pushing that same arguement, but I don't think the situation supports it any more without a major disruption
2990 2013-04-03 22:55:05 <gmaxwell> EvilPete: it was <1 minute after the prior block according.
2991 2013-04-03 22:55:15 graingert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2992 2013-04-03 22:55:29 <gmaxwell> AdamBLevine: I mean, the orderbook is public, you can see how far it would move for a given transaction just on the open orders..
2993 2013-04-03 22:55:34 <gmaxwell> ;;market sell 1000
2994 2013-04-03 22:55:36 <gribble> A market order to sell 1000 bitcoins right now would net 113641.4656 USD and would take the last price down to 111.1100 USD, resulting in an average price of 113.6415 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 0.0001 seconds
2995 2013-04-03 22:55:42 <EvilPete> neo2: make damn sure you understand the difference between a wallet and an address and what it means to spend from it and where the change goes.
2996 2013-04-03 22:55:44 <AdamBLevine> gmaxwell: Bitcoin isn't a bubble, because it's genuinely better than what people are spending to buy it.
2997 2013-04-03 22:55:44 <phantomcircuit> ;;market sell --usd 1000000
2998 2013-04-03 22:55:45 <gribble> A market order to sell 1000000.0000 USD worth of bitcoins right now would sell 9295.7137 bitcoins and would take the last price down to 102.5000 USD, resulting in an average price of 107.5765 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 8.4569 seconds
2999 2013-04-03 22:55:51 <phantomcircuit> lol
3000 2013-04-03 22:56:28 <neo2> EvilPete, yeah, this is why i'm asking. i wanna know what's the proper solution for what i wanna do
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3002 2013-04-03 22:57:02 <HM2> ;;bitcoin buy 10000
3003 2013-04-03 22:57:02 <gribble> Error: "bitcoin" is not a valid command.
3004 2013-04-03 22:57:05 MrTiggr has joined
3005 2013-04-03 22:57:11 <HM2> ;;market buy 10000
3006 2013-04-03 22:57:11 <gribble> A market order to buy 10000 bitcoins right now would take 1372594.6458 USD and would take the last price up to 144.7710 USD, resulting in an average price of 137.2595 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 94.8062 seconds
3007 2013-04-03 22:57:30 <HM2> can you specify the quantity in usd?
3008 2013-04-03 22:57:34 testnode9 has joined
3009 2013-04-03 22:57:43 <midnightmagic> ;;market buy --usd 10000
3010 2013-04-03 22:57:44 <HM2> like ;;market spend 10000
3011 2013-04-03 22:57:45 <gribble> A market order to buy 10000.0000 USD worth of bitcoins right now would buy 81.934784 bitcoins and would take the last price up to 122.2300 USD, resulting in an average price of 122.0483 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 0.0001 seconds
3012 2013-04-03 22:57:51 <sipa> tigger0: they're used for both
3013 2013-04-03 22:57:55 <HM2> sweet
3014 2013-04-03 22:58:03 <HM2> that's one well-written bot
3015 2013-04-03 22:58:05 <midnightmagic> HM2: But gribble also answers privately, so you can play around with it in /query too.
3016 2013-04-03 22:58:06 <sipa> tigger0: blocks and transactions are filtered by bloom filters, if you configure one
3017 2013-04-03 22:58:10 <EvilPete> neo2: if I were doing it I'd have multiples. To spend, import the private key and dispose of the paper one.
3018 2013-04-03 22:58:17 <midnightmagic> HM2: Donate to the botsnack if you find it useful.
3019 2013-04-03 22:58:18 <tigger0> oh wow alright, how much does that speed up block validation? pools probably love it
3020 2013-04-03 22:58:19 <midnightmagic> ;;botsnack
3021 2013-04-03 22:58:19 <gribble> Forget the snack, just send me some bitcoins at 1MgD6rah5zUgEGYZnNmdpnXMaDR3itKYzU :)
3022 2013-04-03 22:58:22 <sipa> tigger0: note that one SPV clients (not fully validating ones) can take advantage of that
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3025 2013-04-03 22:58:27 <gmaxwell> tigger0: they don't impact validation, however... since you can't validate without the whole block
3026 2013-04-03 22:58:30 <HM2> lol that's adorable
3027 2013-04-03 22:58:32 <tigger0> ah right
3028 2013-04-03 22:58:43 <sipa> tigger0: it doesn't speed up block validation, just downloading for clients which are only interested in some parts
3029 2013-04-03 22:58:50 <gmaxwell> sorry sipa.
3030 2013-04-03 22:58:59 i2pRelay has joined
3031 2013-04-03 22:59:07 <midnightmagic> Silly bots..
3032 2013-04-03 22:59:11 <gribble> Silly humans.
3033 2013-04-03 22:59:18 <sipa> gmaxwell: for?
3034 2013-04-03 22:59:24 <gmaxwell> sipa: typing faster!
3035 2013-04-03 22:59:27 <sipa> oh, you answered too
3036 2013-04-03 22:59:37 <sipa> you're welcome
3037 2013-04-03 22:59:57 Tantadruj has joined
3038 2013-04-03 23:00:21 <gmaxwell> It's actually good that we (the channel) multi-answer stuff. It means I always feel comfortable ignoring the channel in the middle of a conversation and knowing that people will still get answers.
3039 2013-04-03 23:00:29 <neo2> EvilPete, what do you mean?
3040 2013-04-03 23:02:06 ry4nn has joined
3041 2013-04-03 23:02:41 <Luke-Jr> I seem to recall someone running a service with bitcoind on a BSD; anyone know who that was?
3042 2013-04-03 23:02:51 Gnaf has joined
3043 2013-04-03 23:04:09 <EvilPete> Luke-Jr: I run bitcoind on BSD, no drama here.
3044 2013-04-03 23:04:32 <Luke-Jr> EvilPete: which BSD?
3045 2013-04-03 23:04:34 graingert has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3046 2013-04-03 23:05:14 ZeroIce has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3047 2013-04-03 23:05:19 <EvilPete> Luke-Jr: FreeBSD. my 8 year old 32 bit machine is giving me grief, but all the others are pleasantly boring.
3048 2013-04-03 23:05:39 <EvilPete> Luke-Jr: and I think my old machine is giving trouble because I have some non-thread-safe library somewhere
3049 2013-04-03 23:05:49 <Someguy123> hey guys, what would be the appropriate DECIMAL() settings for a column in mysql to handle BTC values?
3050 2013-04-03 23:06:02 <Luke-Jr> Someguy123: none, it should be a 64-bit integr
3051 2013-04-03 23:06:13 <Luke-Jr> Someguy123: values should not be stored in BTC, but amounts
3052 2013-04-03 23:06:28 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3053 2013-04-03 23:06:33 <Someguy123> Luke-Jr, i'm guessing you're implying satoshis?
3054 2013-04-03 23:06:34 mologie has joined
3055 2013-04-03 23:06:51 <Luke-Jr> Someguy123: yes
3056 2013-04-03 23:07:01 i2pRelay has joined
3057 2013-04-03 23:08:12 <Someguy123> Luke-Jr, and to convert back to a bitcoin amount for displaying normally, that's just / 10^8 right?
3058 2013-04-03 23:08:23 <sipa> correct
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3089 2013-04-03 23:30:54 <TomServo> Is there any kind of historical record of the total number of bitcoin nodes?
3090 2013-04-03 23:31:11 brwyatt is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt
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3097 2013-04-03 23:37:21 <Guest11515> Given a private importable key "5JZB4ewYsbJhej6Psb5gL1h5BL26EoA49EzwoLSSXB8rtEDX8su" - how can I get the public address from that?
3098 2013-04-03 23:37:36 <Guest11515> (and it is a test address if you just shit yourself, lol)
3099 2013-04-03 23:38:02 <sipa> import it, and use validateaddress to check the pubkey of the resulting address?
3100 2013-04-03 23:38:29 <lianj> Final Balance 0 BTC
3101 2013-04-03 23:38:35 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3102 2013-04-03 23:38:48 <lianj> (just for the others that were about to try)
3103 2013-04-03 23:39:01 <Guest11515> I was hoping to get the address without importing it
3104 2013-04-03 23:39:07 i2pRelay has joined
3105 2013-04-03 23:39:13 <Guest11515> php/c++ source
3106 2013-04-03 23:39:24 <lianj> my ruby lib can do it
3107 2013-04-03 23:39:40 <Guest11515> what documentation did you use to write it?
3108 2013-04-03 23:39:45 <o-p> Guest11515: I wrote code that does this here: https://github.com/piratelinux/cwallet
3109 2013-04-03 23:39:53 <jaakkos> importing a private key that has been published is potentially dangerous
3110 2013-04-03 23:39:57 <Luke-Jr> ^
3111 2013-04-03 23:40:23 <Guest11515> Ok thanks, I'll checkout the code
3112 2013-04-03 23:40:37 <sipa> there's certainly websites that can do it too, but i'd suggest saving the javascript locally instead of using a live site...
3113 2013-04-03 23:40:43 metabyte has joined
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3115 2013-04-03 23:41:12 <o-p> well maybe not exactly
3116 2013-04-03 23:41:19 <Guest11515> Ok cool, thanks for the help
3117 2013-04-03 23:41:20 <o-p> it reads the wallet private key
3118 2013-04-03 23:41:41 graingert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3119 2013-04-03 23:43:18 <jgarzik> 2013-04-03 23:21:07 CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 6932595762 (poolsz 3361)
3120 2013-04-03 23:43:18 <jgarzik> 2013-04-03 23:21:08 CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 0096724349 (poolsz 3362)
3121 2013-04-03 23:43:18 <jgarzik> 2013-04-03 23:21:08 CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 69d515d288 (poolsz 3363)
3122 2013-04-03 23:43:21 yayo has joined
3123 2013-04-03 23:43:25 <jgarzik> I think we're looking at the death of the zero-fee transaction
3124 2013-04-03 23:43:31 <jgarzik> confirmation times in past 24 hours are getting long
3125 2013-04-03 23:43:51 <EvilPete> CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 260c3ecdee (poolsz 4696)
3126 2013-04-03 23:44:08 <EvilPete> we were 5200 a while ago, and blocks were being created with 4 tx's in it
3127 2013-04-03 23:44:09 <sipa> 4771 here
3128 2013-04-03 23:44:42 <sipa> 760 txn in a block!
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3147 2013-04-03 23:54:32 <keystroke> is the wallet including its generation process the same in .7 and .8.1?
3148 2013-04-03 23:54:33 stalled has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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3150 2013-04-03 23:54:39 <deadweasel> jgarzik: i sent 10 btc with .001 fee today @ 11:32 est, first confirm was less than an hr ago.... i realize now i shoulda sent .0015. maybe post a fee schedule?
3151 2013-04-03 23:54:48 jchp has joined
3152 2013-04-03 23:55:00 <sipa> keystroke: wallet generation process?
3153 2013-04-03 23:55:04 neo2 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3154 2013-04-03 23:55:10 i2pRelay has joined
3155 2013-04-03 23:55:17 <jgarzik> deadweasel: really the client needs to better handle fees for the user. plenty of suggestions floating around, not much code.
3156 2013-04-03 23:55:22 <keystroke> yea like public/private key generation... no bugs patched recently re: not properly generating random numbers or whatnot
3157 2013-04-03 23:55:52 <keystroke> by that i mean on initial startup to produce wallet.dat
3158 2013-04-03 23:55:58 <sipa> no significant changes in the wallet between 0.7 and 0.8 afaik
3159 2013-04-03 23:56:01 <EvilPete> jgarzik: the coin control patches do a far better job of fee awareness than the stock client, but there's so much new stuff in there as well.
3160 2013-04-03 23:56:25 <keystroke> ok thanks sipa :)
3161 2013-04-03 23:56:48 <jgarzik> EvilPete: coin control conveys nothing about what a good fee might be
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3164 2013-04-03 23:56:58 <jgarzik> EvilPete: that's entirely dependent on current network conditions
3165 2013-04-03 23:57:04 <gmaxwell> deadweasel: the fee doesn't have anything to do with the value of the transaction.
3166 2013-04-03 23:57:14 <Diablo-D3> hrm
3167 2013-04-03 23:57:22 <Diablo-D3> does anyone know if they sell 100gbit/sec nics yet?
3168 2013-04-03 23:57:24 <rikur> jgarzik: are suggestions on the wiki? I'm temporarily without a job, could try to do smth
3169 2013-04-03 23:57:29 jtimon_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3170 2013-04-03 23:57:34 <gmaxwell> The data size of the transaction, however, is very important... and nothing in the software makes that clear to people..
3171 2013-04-03 23:58:04 <sipa> i think just adding a bunch of informational texts to the client would help a lot, right now
3172 2013-04-03 23:58:07 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: it does, however, help people understand difference in transaction data size.
3173 2013-04-03 23:58:15 normanrichards has quit ()
3174 2013-04-03 23:58:45 duckybsd has joined
3175 2013-04-03 23:59:05 <jgarzik> sipa: need some form of introspection into recent fee history
3176 2013-04-03 23:59:23 <EvilPete> jgarzik: sure, it has no awareness of network conditions but it does make the transaction size, fee per KB etc visible
3177 2013-04-03 23:59:31 <gmaxwell> sipa: there are also some ugly sharp edges that could be smoothed. e.g. you might put in 0.001 BTC / KB (which is what you need to do to reliably have top priority) but then you manage to author a a 100 KB transaction that spends 0.1 BTC with 0.1 in fee.
3178 2013-04-03 23:59:51 <sipa> yeah