1 2013-04-05 00:00:10 Pinion has joined
2 2013-04-05 00:00:34 Pinion is now known as Guest56420
3 2013-04-05 00:01:58 alexwaters has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
4 2013-04-05 00:03:13 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
5 2013-04-05 00:03:47 i2pRelay has joined
6 2013-04-05 00:04:32 Darin has joined
7 2013-04-05 00:07:22 <aceat64> I still don't understand why people mess around with crap like brain wallets
8 2013-04-05 00:07:38 GlitchNZ has joined
9 2013-04-05 00:09:32 nomailin1 has quit (Quit: nomailin1)
10 2013-04-05 00:11:12 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
11 2013-04-05 00:11:42 i2pRelay has joined
12 2013-04-05 00:12:40 abueesp has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
13 2013-04-05 00:13:02 bernie has joined
14 2013-04-05 00:13:09 graingert has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
15 2013-04-05 00:13:47 toffoo has joined
16 2013-04-05 00:14:54 graingert has joined
17 2013-04-05 00:15:17 graingert is now known as Guest71140
18 2013-04-05 00:15:59 <owowo> because they maybe have wallets in their head instead of brains
19 2013-04-05 00:19:14 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
20 2013-04-05 00:19:24 <bonks> aceat64: It protects large sums of monay
21 2013-04-05 00:19:44 i2pRelay has joined
22 2013-04-05 00:19:50 <sipa> bonks: i don't want to rely on just my head to protect a large sum of money
23 2013-04-05 00:20:18 <sipa> a trust my head for many things, but never forgetting and never accidentally revealing something isn't one of them
24 2013-04-05 00:20:18 <bonks> Well you could as easily write down your brain wallet's passphrase and secure that
25 2013-04-05 00:20:27 monad7 has joined
26 2013-04-05 00:20:31 <sipa> then it's not a brainwallet :D
27 2013-04-05 00:21:01 abueesp has joined
28 2013-04-05 00:21:01 <bonks> For me my written passphrase is more like "this is kind of how it's formatted, here's more hints, substitute this with..."
29 2013-04-05 00:21:12 <monad7> I just created a transaction with the createrawtransaction api. it's propagating. I suspect its because it doesn't have a transaction fee. can I add one after the fact?
30 2013-04-05 00:21:22 <bonks> So really it's not actually written down. You just need to know stuff only I know
31 2013-04-05 00:21:24 <lianj> bonks: good luck then
32 2013-04-05 00:22:02 <sipa> monad7: no
33 2013-04-05 00:22:19 <monad7> sipa: so what happens...does it just sit there forever
34 2013-04-05 00:22:20 <monad7> ?
35 2013-04-05 00:22:29 <bonks> I also created a brain wallet using a hash of a passphrase as the privatekey
36 2013-04-05 00:22:33 <sipa> if it wouldn't relay, bitcoind wouldn't have let you send it
37 2013-04-05 00:22:45 Casimir1904 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
38 2013-04-05 00:22:46 <monad7> hrm
39 2013-04-05 00:22:49 <sipa> bonks: that's the worst part :)
40 2013-04-05 00:22:53 XRPTrader2 has quit (Quit: XRPTrader2)
41 2013-04-05 00:22:57 <bonks> It was just for fun, but I think it adds an extra layer of security
42 2013-04-05 00:23:30 <sipa> bonks: it means you not only trust yourself to remember and never disclose, but also that you are good at producing random data strong enough to withstand an attack by pretty much the whole world
43 2013-04-05 00:23:53 arij_ is now known as arij
44 2013-04-05 00:23:53 <monad7> sipa: the transaction is listed in my client...but certainly not on blockinfo etc.
45 2013-04-05 00:24:01 <sipa> monad7: what's the txid?
46 2013-04-05 00:24:03 arij has quit (Changing host)
47 2013-04-05 00:24:03 arij has joined
48 2013-04-05 00:24:06 <monad7> 75ed07180df9de5e36140b90b0ed3cbc1fa18f84aa084aa72464c0a5c25057f2
49 2013-04-05 00:24:38 <bonks> sipa: That's good right? (I can't figure out if you're critisizing this method)
50 2013-04-05 00:24:48 <aceat64> the problem with brainwallets is 1) method used could be weak, 2) it could change, 3) your password could be weak, 4) potentially a smaller number of addresses need to be brute-forced to get your coins
51 2013-04-05 00:24:51 <sipa> bonks: i'm saying it's a terrible idea
52 2013-04-05 00:24:55 <bonks> lol
53 2013-04-05 00:25:02 <sipa> bonks: humans are very bad at producing random data
54 2013-04-05 00:25:23 <sipa> bonks: and even if you think it's good enough as a password, that doesn't mean it's good enough as a seed
55 2013-04-05 00:25:30 Ashaman has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
56 2013-04-05 00:25:57 manoliyo has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
57 2013-04-05 00:25:58 <sipa> passwords only give attackers a few attempts
58 2013-04-05 00:26:02 <gwillen> so what is a good word for a brainwallet with the password written down
59 2013-04-05 00:26:16 <gwillen> I guess it's just a kind of paperwallet
60 2013-04-05 00:26:23 <monad7> sipa: thoughts on this txid?
61 2013-04-05 00:26:38 <sipa> seeds can be attacked by the whole world, continuously, forever, and for every brainwallet out there in parallel
62 2013-04-05 00:26:50 Guest71140 is now known as graingert
63 2013-04-05 00:27:07 graingert has quit (Changing host)
64 2013-04-05 00:27:07 graingert has joined
65 2013-04-05 00:27:11 <sipa> monad7: just wait; my node hasn't seen it, but your client will keep broadcasting until it relays
66 2013-04-05 00:27:15 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
67 2013-04-05 00:27:39 <bonks> gwillen: A word? At least a phrase
68 2013-04-05 00:27:47 i2pRelay has joined
69 2013-04-05 00:27:54 <monad7> sipa: yeah, as i said i didn't attach a fee to it. but it's value is over 0.04
70 2013-04-05 00:27:58 <gwillen> corner-case behavior question: how does bitcoin-qt handle coins that are trapped in change of transactions that have been broadcast but not mined?
71 2013-04-05 00:28:04 <gwillen> does it show them as though they are spendable? what does it do if you try to spend them?
72 2013-04-05 00:28:11 brwyatt_ is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt_
73 2013-04-05 00:28:19 <gwillen> bonks: sorry, I am using 'password' as a generic term for 'pass-data'
74 2013-04-05 00:28:23 <gwillen> bonks: I should say passphrase
75 2013-04-05 00:28:47 manoliyo has joined
76 2013-04-05 00:29:01 <sipa> gwillen: it shows them as spendable, yes
77 2013-04-05 00:29:13 <gwillen> sipa: and if you try to spend them, it informs you of the terrible truth?
78 2013-04-05 00:29:30 <gwillen> oh, I guess you can just emit a transaction that uses them even though they haven't cleared yet
79 2013-04-05 00:29:33 <gwillen> I didn't think about that
80 2013-04-05 00:29:44 <bonks> Also dividing your wealth into multiple brain wallets will reduce the risk of having all stolen at once
81 2013-04-05 00:29:51 MiningBuddy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
82 2013-04-05 00:30:08 <sipa> gwillen: what terrible truth?
83 2013-04-05 00:30:18 <sipa> the protocol allows using unconfirmed coins
84 2013-04-05 00:30:20 <gwillen> sipa: sorry, I had been assuming you wouldn't be able to spend such coins
85 2013-04-05 00:30:21 <gwillen> but you can
86 2013-04-05 00:30:29 <gwillen> it's just that they may take longer to clear than you expect
87 2013-04-05 00:30:36 <gwillen> because they won't confirm until the change confirms
88 2013-04-05 00:30:46 PhantomSpark has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
89 2013-04-05 00:30:47 <sipa> well yes, but that's a circular reasoning
90 2013-04-05 00:30:48 Darin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
91 2013-04-05 00:30:52 <gwillen> hm?
92 2013-04-05 00:30:55 XRPTrader2 has joined
93 2013-04-05 00:31:00 <sipa> there is no problem with both confirming at the same time
94 2013-04-05 00:31:01 <lianj> gwillen: right, but that can happen in the same block
95 2013-04-05 00:31:08 <gwillen> oh, true
96 2013-04-05 00:31:21 <gwillen> but we don't have pay-for-ancestor-transactions
97 2013-04-05 00:31:31 XertroV has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
98 2013-04-05 00:31:34 abueesp is now known as basylib
99 2013-04-05 00:31:35 <gwillen> so if the change is wedged because of an insufficient fee
100 2013-04-05 00:31:40 <gwillen> the transaction that spends it will wedge too
101 2013-04-05 00:31:50 <jspilman> gwillen: I heard some miners are smart enough to do that
102 2013-04-05 00:31:53 <lianj> depends on the miner
103 2013-04-05 00:31:57 <gwillen> I heard it proposed
104 2013-04-05 00:32:05 <gwillen> I hadn't heard that anybody was doing it
105 2013-04-05 00:32:18 <CodeShark> eligius does it, no?
106 2013-04-05 00:32:20 <gwillen> I guess it's actually a smart miner optimization to do it
107 2013-04-05 00:32:23 <gwillen> it doesn't require any protocol changes
108 2013-04-05 00:32:23 <jspilman> spend the output to a new addr, and miner will see the fee and know they can only get it if they process the pending input
109 2013-04-05 00:32:39 <gwillen> eligius doesn't get very many blocks though. ;-) Do any of the big pools do it?
110 2013-04-05 00:32:41 <sipa> indeed, eligius does
111 2013-04-05 00:32:54 GrHmB has joined
112 2013-04-05 00:33:05 ToryJujube_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
113 2013-04-05 00:33:07 <gwillen> ok, so if nothing else, you can unstick a transaction by respending the coins with a double-sized fee, and then waiting for eligius to mine a block.
114 2013-04-05 00:33:16 <jspilman> in theory! :-)
115 2013-04-05 00:33:44 TriNitroToluene has joined
116 2013-04-05 00:34:21 <sipa> gwillen: it doesn't allow double-spending, afaik
117 2013-04-05 00:34:46 <jspilman> what's holding up the bigger pools from doing that same? seems like 'my tx is stuck' questions are asked quite frequently, and not [m]any clients support double spending with a bigger fee without going raw
118 2013-04-05 00:34:46 <gwillen> sipa: hm?
119 2013-04-05 00:35:07 <gwillen> jspilman: as I understand it, even if my client supported building such a tx, nobody would relay it
120 2013-04-05 00:35:18 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
121 2013-04-05 00:35:19 <gwillen> because nodes will not relay double-spends
122 2013-04-05 00:35:20 <lianj> gwillen: it works
123 2013-04-05 00:35:24 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
124 2013-04-05 00:35:38 <jspilman> they won't know it's a double spend, because they probabl dropped your insufficient tx from their mempool
125 2013-04-05 00:35:39 <sipa> if a transaction isn't confirmed in a very long time, it is likely forgotten by the network
126 2013-04-05 00:35:42 <jspilman> I don't know that for sure!
127 2013-04-05 00:35:45 <sipa> in that case, you can double-spend it
128 2013-04-05 00:35:50 i2pRelay has joined
129 2013-04-05 00:35:57 <sipa> forgotten or never relayed in the first place
130 2013-04-05 00:36:06 <jspilman> anyone, 'double spend' is the wrong word for an unconfirmed tx
131 2013-04-05 00:36:10 <jspilman> re-spend more like
132 2013-04-05 00:36:10 <sipa> it's not
133 2013-04-05 00:36:23 <sipa> the network aims to protect unconfirmed transactions
134 2013-04-05 00:36:26 <jspilman> *anyway
135 2013-04-05 00:36:33 <sipa> there is no guarantee possible for this, but it is designed to make it hard
136 2013-04-05 00:36:42 <GrHmB> if its never relayed the first time, thats not spending in the first place if it doesnt go anywhere
137 2013-04-05 00:36:44 <jspilman> aims to protect unconfirmed transactions... with insufficient fees?
138 2013-04-05 00:36:48 <gwillen> how long is a long time, to get a tx dropped from everyone's mempool?
139 2013-04-05 00:36:52 <sipa> gwillen: never
140 2013-04-05 00:36:59 <sipa> but nodes restart and quit
141 2013-04-05 00:37:02 <gwillen> oh, I see
142 2013-04-05 00:37:18 XertroV has joined
143 2013-04-05 00:37:31 BlackPrapor has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
144 2013-04-05 00:37:51 hsmithsN7 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
145 2013-04-05 00:38:31 <jspilman> I guess in all liklihood it isn't relayed in the first place, so never gets in the mempool. I don't know of any specific conditions where it would be relayed and a majority of miners would still not mine it and therefore it's stuck and can't be respent. But the other option of 'paying it forward' with a larger fee still holds (again, if miners bother to check)
146 2013-04-05 00:38:34 BlackPrapor has joined
147 2013-04-05 00:39:52 volante has joined
148 2013-04-05 00:39:56 chylee has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
149 2013-04-05 00:41:19 Qukslver has joined
150 2013-04-05 00:43:19 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
151 2013-04-05 00:43:35 BlackPrapor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
152 2013-04-05 00:43:50 i2pRelay has joined
153 2013-04-05 00:44:25 BlackPrapor has joined
154 2013-04-05 00:44:34 BlackPrapor has quit (Client Quit)
155 2013-04-05 00:49:23 parancibia has joined
156 2013-04-05 00:49:31 GlitchNZ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
157 2013-04-05 00:49:35 RoboTeddy has joined
158 2013-04-05 00:49:45 <volante> how come when i open /git/bitcoin/bitcoin-qt.pro in qtcreator, it tries to build sources from /git/ppcoin/. i tried cleaning, closing all projects, etc. i even deleted the ppcoin sources and now it says file not found when trying to build
159 2013-04-05 00:50:12 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
160 2013-04-05 00:50:17 <volante> i previously had tried to build ppcoin and now qtcreator seems to be fixated on using those sources instead of the bitcoin ones
161 2013-04-05 00:50:19 Guest56420 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
162 2013-04-05 00:51:19 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
163 2013-04-05 00:51:51 i2pRelay has joined
164 2013-04-05 00:53:29 Qukslver has quit (Quit: Bye)
165 2013-04-05 00:54:47 Tantadruj has quit (Quit: DoubleRecall Turns Paywalls Into Advertising Dollars - NYTimes.com http://nyti.ms/odHOgy)
166 2013-04-05 00:55:07 hsmithsN7 has joined
167 2013-04-05 00:55:09 normanrichards has joined
168 2013-04-05 00:55:24 geckom has joined
169 2013-04-05 00:55:41 <geckom> can anyone help me with a JSON connection issue?
170 2013-04-05 00:55:59 <geckom> local connection to bitcoind works fine, but cant get the remote connection to it working
171 2013-04-05 00:56:50 peawormsworth has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
172 2013-04-05 00:56:50 jaequery has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
173 2013-04-05 00:57:42 <TheSeven> geckom: did you set rpcallowip in bitcoind.conf accordingly?
174 2013-04-05 00:58:40 kalleboo_ has joined
175 2013-04-05 00:59:21 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
176 2013-04-05 00:59:53 i2pRelay has joined
177 2013-04-05 00:59:58 hsmithsN7 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
178 2013-04-05 01:00:11 <geckom> TheSeven: yup set to * atm while i test
179 2013-04-05 01:01:06 Phraust has quit (Quit: http://mining.phraust.com)
180 2013-04-05 01:02:36 Phraust has joined
181 2013-04-05 01:03:19 darwin_ has joined
182 2013-04-05 01:04:36 tockitj has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
183 2013-04-05 01:07:23 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
184 2013-04-05 01:07:52 i2pRelay has joined
185 2013-04-05 01:08:06 da2ce7 has joined
186 2013-04-05 01:09:55 Bohren has joined
187 2013-04-05 01:10:30 sagax has joined
188 2013-04-05 01:11:06 <geckom> keep getting "PROCESSMESSAGE MESSAGESTART NOT FOUND"
189 2013-04-05 01:11:06 RoboTeddy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
190 2013-04-05 01:11:10 RoboTedd_ has joined
191 2013-04-05 01:11:37 clarkm has joined
192 2013-04-05 01:11:43 <sipa> geckom: you're connecting to 8332, not 8333, right?
193 2013-04-05 01:11:52 <geckom> am was doing 8333
194 2013-04-05 01:11:58 berni23 has quit ()
195 2013-04-05 01:12:01 <geckom> from another server
196 2013-04-05 01:12:03 <sipa> that's the P2P port
197 2013-04-05 01:12:14 <geckom> ahhh ok that helps significantly
198 2013-04-05 01:12:14 <geckom> lol
199 2013-04-05 01:12:20 <sipa> the JSON-RPC server runs on port 8332 (or whatever you configure it to)
200 2013-04-05 01:13:37 hatsaresilly has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
201 2013-04-05 01:15:24 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
202 2013-04-05 01:15:54 i2pRelay has joined
203 2013-04-05 01:16:16 parancibia has quit (Quit: Leaving)
204 2013-04-05 01:16:37 <geckom> lol, thanks guys, that was the biggest problem, tested it on 8332 before but didnt change the FW to allow it when i tested it
205 2013-04-05 01:16:40 <geckom> working great now
206 2013-04-05 01:17:49 tyn has joined
207 2013-04-05 01:21:01 da2ce7 has joined
208 2013-04-05 01:21:10 <da2ce7> 2!~kvirc@opentransactions/dev/da2ce7|hello :)
209 2013-04-05 01:21:47 <da2ce7> 2!~kvirc@opentransactions/dev/da2ce7|a friend of mine entered his wallet password twice, wrong. Sent bitcoin to his account, then cannot unlock it.
210 2013-04-05 01:22:20 zylche_ has joined
211 2013-04-05 01:22:24 <da2ce7> 2!~kvirc@opentransactions/dev/da2ce7|is there any pre-made app that goes throogh the permitations of a password, eg, missing a key, pressing the wrong key.
212 2013-04-05 01:22:33 <da2ce7> 2!~kvirc@opentransactions/dev/da2ce7|otherwise I may just write my myself.
213 2013-04-05 01:23:04 Pinion has joined
214 2013-04-05 01:23:12 <kaptah> da2ce7|2: crunch
215 2013-04-05 01:23:25 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
216 2013-04-05 01:23:29 TriNitroToluene has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
217 2013-04-05 01:23:29 Pinion is now known as Guest26035
218 2013-04-05 01:23:57 i2pRelay has joined
219 2013-04-05 01:24:14 <da2ce7> 2!~kvirc@opentransactions/dev/da2ce7|kaptah: ?
220 2013-04-05 01:24:19 darwin_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
221 2013-04-05 01:24:21 <kaptah> http://sourceforge.net/projects/crunch-wordlist/
222 2013-04-05 01:25:26 zylche has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
223 2013-04-05 01:25:46 GenTarkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
224 2013-04-05 01:28:12 <GrHmB> miners recommended to use latest bitcoin build?
225 2013-04-05 01:28:58 <sipa> yes
226 2013-04-05 01:31:10 <GrHmB> thanks sipa
227 2013-04-05 01:31:27 nsillik has quit (Quit: nsillik)
228 2013-04-05 01:31:28 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
229 2013-04-05 01:31:59 i2pRelay has joined
230 2013-04-05 01:34:25 RoboTedd_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
231 2013-04-05 01:35:01 RoboTeddy has joined
232 2013-04-05 01:35:26 Bohren has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
233 2013-04-05 01:37:01 TriNitroToluene has joined
234 2013-04-05 01:38:40 ayalan has joined
235 2013-04-05 01:39:28 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
236 2013-04-05 01:39:31 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
237 2013-04-05 01:39:39 Guest26035 has quit (Quit: Has quit)
238 2013-04-05 01:40:02 i2pRelay has joined
239 2013-04-05 01:42:09 da2ce7 has quit (2!~kvirc@opentransactions/dev/da2ce7|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
240 2013-04-05 01:45:08 XertroV has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
241 2013-04-05 01:47:34 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
242 2013-04-05 01:48:02 da2ce7 has joined
243 2013-04-05 01:48:05 i2pRelay has joined
244 2013-04-05 01:49:06 Retik has quit (Quit: Leaving)
245 2013-04-05 01:50:37 nova90 has joined
246 2013-04-05 01:50:54 XRPTrader2 has quit (Quit: XRPTrader2)
247 2013-04-05 01:51:45 X-Scale has joined
248 2013-04-05 01:52:55 Diablo-D3 has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
249 2013-04-05 01:53:37 nova907767 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
250 2013-04-05 01:53:52 ThomasV has joined
251 2013-04-05 01:54:20 john5223 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
252 2013-04-05 01:55:36 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
253 2013-04-05 01:56:07 i2pRelay has joined
254 2013-04-05 01:59:04 clarkm has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
255 2013-04-05 01:59:49 metabyte has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
256 2013-04-05 02:00:02 ToryJujube has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
257 2013-04-05 02:03:24 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
258 2013-04-05 02:03:38 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
259 2013-04-05 02:04:10 i2pRelay has joined
260 2013-04-05 02:05:00 basylib has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
261 2013-04-05 02:05:02 Diablo-D3 has joined
262 2013-04-05 02:07:11 abueesp has joined
263 2013-04-05 02:07:43 abueesp is now known as basylib
264 2013-04-05 02:10:04 heinz` has joined
265 2013-04-05 02:11:40 ToryJujube has joined
266 2013-04-05 02:11:41 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
267 2013-04-05 02:12:12 i2pRelay has joined
268 2013-04-05 02:12:29 manoliyou has joined
269 2013-04-05 02:12:40 basylib has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
270 2013-04-05 02:12:55 <Luke-Jr> GrHmB: 0.8.1.eligius1 would be better
271 2013-04-05 02:13:04 yareyare has joined
272 2013-04-05 02:15:38 Tantadruj has joined
273 2013-04-05 02:15:56 Ogig has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
274 2013-04-05 02:18:14 GrHmB has quit (Quit: Leaving)
275 2013-04-05 02:18:33 Retik has joined
276 2013-04-05 02:19:13 Belxjander has quit (Quit: Sayonara)
277 2013-04-05 02:19:43 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
278 2013-04-05 02:20:15 i2pRelay has joined
279 2013-04-05 02:23:38 manet has joined
280 2013-04-05 02:25:56 XRPTrader2 has joined
281 2013-04-05 02:26:18 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
282 2013-04-05 02:27:08 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
283 2013-04-05 02:27:17 [7] has joined
284 2013-04-05 02:27:45 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
285 2013-04-05 02:28:13 geckom has left ()
286 2013-04-05 02:28:17 i2pRelay has joined
287 2013-04-05 02:29:04 Belxjander has joined
288 2013-04-05 02:29:40 Jezzz has quit (Excess Flood)
289 2013-04-05 02:30:17 skeledrew has joined
290 2013-04-05 02:30:29 Lexx__ has joined
291 2013-04-05 02:30:47 MobPhone has joined
292 2013-04-05 02:31:22 Guest77582 has joined
293 2013-04-05 02:31:34 knotwork has quit (Quit: Leaving)
294 2013-04-05 02:32:50 Belxjander has quit (Client Quit)
295 2013-04-05 02:33:11 celehner has joined
296 2013-04-05 02:33:54 dc8181 has joined
297 2013-04-05 02:34:10 Lexx_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
298 2013-04-05 02:35:35 graingert has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
299 2013-04-05 02:35:48 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
300 2013-04-05 02:36:20 nikitis has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
301 2013-04-05 02:36:20 i2pRelay has joined
302 2013-04-05 02:36:51 viperhr has joined
303 2013-04-05 02:37:04 nikitis has joined
304 2013-04-05 02:37:30 ninchuu has joined
305 2013-04-05 02:37:32 BTCOxygen has joined
306 2013-04-05 02:39:05 AlmightyBung has joined
307 2013-04-05 02:40:22 viperhr1 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
308 2013-04-05 02:40:22 Blackreign has quit ()
309 2013-04-05 02:42:42 Namworld has joined
310 2013-04-05 02:43:51 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
311 2013-04-05 02:44:23 i2pRelay has joined
312 2013-04-05 02:44:54 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
313 2013-04-05 02:45:14 GlitchNZ has joined
314 2013-04-05 02:46:16 <GlitchNZ> Afternnon peeps
315 2013-04-05 02:46:30 dc8181 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
316 2013-04-05 02:47:27 meefozio has joined
317 2013-04-05 02:48:43 <GlitchNZ> I've just been looking at decoderawtransaction, and I can see that a transaction is composed of 1 or more 'vout' elements - each being an output of the transaction - what doesn't make sense to me, is that each of these vout's can have an array of addresses - surely one output can only have one address right?
318 2013-04-05 02:48:48 systemParanoid has joined
319 2013-04-05 02:48:51 sandwich has joined
320 2013-04-05 02:49:18 skeledrew has joined
321 2013-04-05 02:49:41 deego` has joined
322 2013-04-05 02:50:14 lupine has quit (Excess Flood)
323 2013-04-05 02:50:27 <gmaxwell> GlitchNZ: no, for exampleâ a multisignature output (one that requires multiple keys to sign it) has more than one.
324 2013-04-05 02:50:41 Belxjander has joined
325 2013-04-05 02:51:08 deego has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
326 2013-04-05 02:51:54 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
327 2013-04-05 02:52:26 i2pRelay has joined
328 2013-04-05 02:52:28 manet has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
329 2013-04-05 02:52:48 <GlitchNZ> hmmm, that does make things tricky - I dont really know about multisignature transactions, presumably if someone sent coins to me without any prior arrangement, it would not be a multisignature transaction as I would not be able to access the funds without knowing the signatures for the other outputs correct?
330 2013-04-05 02:53:41 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
331 2013-04-05 02:54:01 <gmaxwell> right. listtransaction will never show such a transaction.
332 2013-04-05 02:54:06 <gmaxwell> (at least right now)
333 2013-04-05 02:54:26 lupine has joined
334 2013-04-05 02:54:29 <gmaxwell> GlitchNZ: â in general if someone sends you a payment without arrangement they shouldn't actually expect you to get it.
335 2013-04-05 02:54:30 ralphtheninja has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
336 2013-04-05 02:54:31 <GlitchNZ> ok cool - i guess if someone sent such a transaction they can only blame themselves that their money has dissapeared
337 2013-04-05 02:54:51 fiesh has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
338 2013-04-05 02:55:04 MobPhone has quit (Quit: -a- Android IRC 2.0.2)
339 2013-04-05 02:55:15 <Belxjander> heya GlitchNZ
340 2013-04-05 02:55:25 <GlitchNZ> gmaxwell - sorry, I meant to say that someone wouldn't send a multisignature tx without prior arrangement
341 2013-04-05 02:55:36 <GlitchNZ> Hi Belxjander :P
342 2013-04-05 02:55:50 <Belxjander> GlitchNZ: actually in NZ? or outside?
343 2013-04-05 02:55:57 <GlitchNZ> actually in NZ
344 2013-04-05 02:57:15 <GlitchNZ> tracing back the source of a transaction is proving to be a bit more of a job than I thought it would be
345 2013-04-05 02:57:48 skeledrew has joined
346 2013-04-05 02:57:56 <c_k> heh, welcome fellow kiwi :)
347 2013-04-05 02:58:05 <GlitchNZ> thanks :)
348 2013-04-05 02:58:10 <Belxjander> ahhh
349 2013-04-05 02:58:17 <Belxjander> another one of us?
350 2013-04-05 02:58:25 * Belxjander is also an NZ'er but exported to Japan :P
351 2013-04-05 02:58:32 <c_k> GlitchNZ: it gets worse when it comes from a mixed wallet like MtGox
352 2013-04-05 02:58:53 fiesh has joined
353 2013-04-05 02:59:20 <GlitchNZ> so, ruling out multisig transactions, any given vout should only ever have one address?
354 2013-04-05 02:59:53 <stretchwarren> Fellow Traveller from #opentransactions is Satoshi Nakamoto. When he quit Bitcoin to "work on other projects" he meant OT.
355 2013-04-05 02:59:55 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
356 2013-04-05 03:00:26 i2pRelay has joined
357 2013-04-05 03:00:28 clarkm has joined
358 2013-04-05 03:01:10 <stretchwarren> It allows off-blockchain transactions, micro payments, true anonymity with chaumian blinding, and instant finality of settlement, while everything is decentralized and low-trust
359 2013-04-05 03:01:51 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
360 2013-04-05 03:02:19 macboz has joined
361 2013-04-05 03:02:21 ZeroIce has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
362 2013-04-05 03:04:18 kadoban has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
363 2013-04-05 03:05:08 D34TH has quit (Quit: Leaving)
364 2013-04-05 03:07:17 deego` is now known as deego
365 2013-04-05 03:07:57 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
366 2013-04-05 03:08:19 <gmaxwell> stretchwarren: OT's stuff is distributed, but not really decentralizedâ at least not in the sense we use it in bitcoin... (I don't mean this to knock it, I think that technology may eventually be an important part of the ecosystem)
367 2013-04-05 03:08:29 i2pRelay has joined
368 2013-04-05 03:09:11 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
369 2013-04-05 03:09:15 <gmaxwell> But FT is not at all like Satoshi. Though I wish he were: Satoshi built a real _usable_ _practical_ system with all the parts needed to make it go. "Batteries included". OT _still_ after all this time is more of a library than something actually useful.
370 2013-04-05 03:09:38 RBecker is now known as rbecker
371 2013-04-05 03:09:41 <gmaxwell> and god. I thought this was #bitcoin ... this conversation doesn't belong here.
372 2013-04-05 03:09:42 eklass has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
373 2013-04-05 03:09:48 ZeroIce has joined
374 2013-04-05 03:10:56 <stretchwarren> gmaxwell true, but OT has been rapidly developing lately, and it could have a huge impact on bitcoin and financial crypto as a whole.
375 2013-04-05 03:11:11 bernie has left ("+++ATH0")
376 2013-04-05 03:12:06 vigilyn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
377 2013-04-05 03:12:09 X-Factor has joined
378 2013-04-05 03:12:16 vigilyn has joined
379 2013-04-05 03:12:16 vigilyn has quit (Changing host)
380 2013-04-05 03:12:16 vigilyn has joined
381 2013-04-05 03:12:42 Tantadruj has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
382 2013-04-05 03:13:16 dust-otc has joined
383 2013-04-05 03:13:39 tyn has joined
384 2013-04-05 03:13:59 <stretchwarren> gmaxwell what is the plan for off-blockchain transactions, and instant finality of settlement?
385 2013-04-05 03:14:04 FredEE has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
386 2013-04-05 03:14:31 <gmaxwell> stretchwarren: why are you asking _me_ this?
387 2013-04-05 03:14:36 Goonie_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
388 2013-04-05 03:14:45 <stretchwarren> I'm just curious what your thoughts are
389 2013-04-05 03:14:54 <gmaxwell> People should build useful things.
390 2013-04-05 03:15:30 Eleuthria has joined
391 2013-04-05 03:15:37 <stretchwarren> is there anything in the works that you know of?
392 2013-04-05 03:15:41 <gmaxwell> I think these things need to exist. There does not need to be only one solution, andâ in factâ there shouldn't only be one solution. Let the best solution become the most popular.
393 2013-04-05 03:15:53 <stretchwarren> of course
394 2013-04-05 03:16:00 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
395 2013-04-05 03:16:13 <gmaxwell> stretchwarren: people toy with varrious things. FT keeps claiming that its easy and he'll make tools but has not yet delievered AFAIK.
396 2013-04-05 03:16:32 i2pRelay has joined
397 2013-04-05 03:16:39 <Retik> anyone know of a bit instant api wrapper?
398 2013-04-05 03:16:52 Brizzo has joined
399 2013-04-05 03:17:02 <Belxjander> are there any reliable "ticker widget"s for android I can use?
400 2013-04-05 03:17:10 <gmaxwell> stretchwarren: the most interesting and powerful ideas I've sen lately have come out of petertoddâ but they've been ideas, not implementations. We need implementations to advance the art.
401 2013-04-05 03:17:30 newbie65 has joined
402 2013-04-05 03:18:15 Brizzo has quit (Client Quit)
403 2013-04-05 03:18:47 <stretchwarren> gmaxwell I think FT is getting close to having something useful. the next couple of years will be exciting! What ideas does petertodd have?
404 2013-04-05 03:19:26 <stretchwarren> i mean the next couple of years for crypto finance will be exciting**
405 2013-04-05 03:21:02 <gmaxwell> stretchwarren: The core is the idea of a fidelity bond. A bank service can provably give away some amount of bitcoin to miners (supporting the security of bitcoin), and payment acts as a bond which automatically loses its value if someone publishes a cryptographic proof that the bank misbehaved. The value is the bond is that depositors will not deposit funds in excess of the bond's amount.
406 2013-04-05 03:21:26 <gmaxwell> This could be combined with all the stuff OT does, of course.
407 2013-04-05 03:22:12 canooon has joined
408 2013-04-05 03:22:48 <stretchwarren> interesting, do you have any links to more information?
409 2013-04-05 03:23:12 skeledrew has joined
410 2013-04-05 03:23:13 <gmaxwell> And it's additionally proposed that the core of these banks would run inside trusted computing with remote attestation. So you'd get a three way security system: an economic disincentive to cheating in the form of the bond, a structural one in the form of federated control (multisignature, etc), and a technological one from remote attestation that makes hacks and casual meddling harder.
411 2013-04-05 03:23:32 <gmaxwell> stretchwarren: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=134827.0
412 2013-04-05 03:24:02 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
413 2013-04-05 03:24:34 i2pRelay has joined
414 2013-04-05 03:25:00 <Belxjander> gmaxwell: so what happens to "at home" miners who go solo or join a pool run FPGA/GPU/ASIC operations just to provide hashing?
415 2013-04-05 03:25:54 <gmaxwell> Belxjander: I'm missing the context?
416 2013-04-05 03:26:21 <Belxjander> sorry... it all seems setup towards rebuilding centralized banking using cryptocurrencies as the basis
417 2013-04-05 03:26:33 <Belxjander> I was more thinking the BitCoin network itself IS the bank
418 2013-04-05 03:27:24 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
419 2013-04-05 03:27:43 <gmaxwell> Belxjander: Bitcoin itself is good at some things, less good at other things. So alternative can be complementary.
420 2013-04-05 03:27:56 <Belxjander> ahhh
421 2013-04-05 03:28:22 <Belxjander> I've had too many late nights trying to learn about this and I am starting somewhat at the beginning...
422 2013-04-05 03:28:23 <gmaxwell> Belxjander: For example, bitcoin's zero trust means the whole world has to know about every transaction... not very efficient if you want to pay a penny every time you hear a song you like.
423 2013-04-05 03:28:52 <Belxjander> I read the basic bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf... and would like to work out some of the more technical side of things with step by step "for dummies" material at the moment
424 2013-04-05 03:29:21 <gmaxwell> So you can build external to bitcoin services denominated in bitcoinâ which use all kinds of cryptographic techniques to prove their honesty and securityâ and use them for low value transactions... and they'd be more anonymous and more efficient.
425 2013-04-05 03:29:40 <stretchwarren> which OT does
426 2013-04-05 03:30:12 <gmaxwell> stretchwarren: plans to do, it doesn't actually _do_ this today.
427 2013-04-05 03:30:36 <stretchwarren> gmaxwell so why not help them do it?
428 2013-04-05 03:31:20 <gmaxwell> because I don't think its as interesting as bitcoin itself. If I had unlimited time I would.
429 2013-04-05 03:31:37 nus-- has joined
430 2013-04-05 03:31:48 <stretchwarren> fair enough
431 2013-04-05 03:31:52 <gmaxwell> it's also something that lots of people can work onâ especially someone who thinks they are going to run such a thing as a money making business should work on itâ and I have no interest in doing that.
432 2013-04-05 03:32:03 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
433 2013-04-05 03:32:34 i2pRelay has joined
434 2013-04-05 03:33:10 Davincij15 has joined
435 2013-04-05 03:33:12 o2_ has joined
436 2013-04-05 03:33:12 o2 has quit (Disconnected by services)
437 2013-04-05 03:34:18 jackass_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
438 2013-04-05 03:34:30 <stretchwarren> for sure.. when they get close to the point of being able to run services for a profit then we'll probably see an explosion in development⦠incentive is everything
439 2013-04-05 03:34:36 o2 has joined
440 2013-04-05 03:34:45 dnathe4th has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
441 2013-04-05 03:35:12 nus- has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
442 2013-04-05 03:35:15 Guest77582 is now known as Jezzz
443 2013-04-05 03:35:19 macboz has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
444 2013-04-05 03:35:38 Jezzz has quit (Changing host)
445 2013-04-05 03:35:38 Jezzz has joined
446 2013-04-05 03:36:08 o2__ has joined
447 2013-04-05 03:36:08 o2 has quit (Disconnected by services)
448 2013-04-05 03:36:17 skeledrew has joined
449 2013-04-05 03:37:31 o2_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
450 2013-04-05 03:40:05 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
451 2013-04-05 03:40:31 o2__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
452 2013-04-05 03:40:44 i2pRelay has joined
453 2013-04-05 03:42:34 brson has quit (Quit: leaving)
454 2013-04-05 03:43:32 o2 has joined
455 2013-04-05 03:45:29 ralphtheninja has joined
456 2013-04-05 03:48:06 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
457 2013-04-05 03:48:38 i2pRelay has joined
458 2013-04-05 03:51:54 Darin has joined
459 2013-04-05 03:52:02 zboz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
460 2013-04-05 03:53:09 fishfishclone has joined
461 2013-04-05 03:53:14 AlmightyBung has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
462 2013-04-05 03:53:33 Eleuthria has left ()
463 2013-04-05 03:56:09 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
464 2013-04-05 03:56:12 AtashiCon has quit (Quit: AtashiCon)
465 2013-04-05 03:56:12 snakie has quit (Changing host)
466 2013-04-05 03:56:13 snakie has joined
467 2013-04-05 03:56:27 fishfish has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
468 2013-04-05 03:56:40 i2pRelay has joined
469 2013-04-05 03:57:35 CaptainBlaze has quit (Quit: CaptainBlaze)
470 2013-04-05 03:57:42 AtashiCon has joined
471 2013-04-05 04:04:10 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
472 2013-04-05 04:04:42 i2pRelay has joined
473 2013-04-05 04:05:22 RoboTeddy has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
474 2013-04-05 04:12:14 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
475 2013-04-05 04:12:26 sanchaz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
476 2013-04-05 04:12:46 i2pRelay has joined
477 2013-04-05 04:13:33 AlbertTuring has joined
478 2013-04-05 04:17:16 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
479 2013-04-05 04:18:15 sydna has joined
480 2013-04-05 04:19:06 sandwich has quit (Quit: Leaving)
481 2013-04-05 04:20:16 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
482 2013-04-05 04:20:47 i2pRelay has joined
483 2013-04-05 04:20:48 JZavala has joined
484 2013-04-05 04:22:54 sync` has quit ()
485 2013-04-05 04:23:50 worraps has joined
486 2013-04-05 04:24:52 JZavala has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
487 2013-04-05 04:28:17 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
488 2013-04-05 04:28:49 i2pRelay has joined
489 2013-04-05 04:30:16 zylche_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
490 2013-04-05 04:31:56 ltrottier has joined
491 2013-04-05 04:33:50 witwit has joined
492 2013-04-05 04:35:17 RoboTeddy has joined
493 2013-04-05 04:36:19 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
494 2013-04-05 04:36:52 i2pRelay has joined
495 2013-04-05 04:36:53 <Luke-Jr> hmm, any tips on tracking down fd leaks?
496 2013-04-05 04:37:50 <gmaxwell> lsof.
497 2013-04-05 04:38:02 <gmaxwell> is this on 0.8.x based code?
498 2013-04-05 04:38:15 <gmaxwell> Leveldb can use something like 500+ FDs with txindex=1 enabled.
499 2013-04-05 04:39:24 <gmaxwell> (in theory I think it can use 1024 per leveldb database, but I've only been able to trigger about 500)
500 2013-04-05 04:44:00 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: it's not bitcoind-based at all
501 2013-04-05 04:44:18 <Luke-Jr> couldn't figure anything from lsof :/
502 2013-04-05 04:44:21 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
503 2013-04-05 04:44:32 <Luke-Jr> a ton of this: bfgminer 7868 luke-jr 638u sock 0,6 0t0 579636 can't identify protocol
504 2013-04-05 04:44:40 Anduck has joined
505 2013-04-05 04:44:40 Anduck has quit (Changing host)
506 2013-04-05 04:44:40 Anduck has joined
507 2013-04-05 04:44:41 L34N_ is now known as L34N
508 2013-04-05 04:44:53 i2pRelay has joined
509 2013-04-05 04:45:42 L34N has quit (Quit: leaving)
510 2013-04-05 04:46:07 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I'd assume that something the opencl is doing?
511 2013-04-05 04:46:14 volante has quit (Quit: Leaving)
512 2013-04-05 04:46:17 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I don't have OpenCL âº
513 2013-04-05 04:46:21 <Luke-Jr> and it's a new regression
514 2013-04-05 04:47:19 Cryo has joined
515 2013-04-05 04:47:19 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: breakpoint the open call/bind.
516 2013-04-05 04:47:39 <Luke-Jr> >_<
517 2013-04-05 04:47:54 ayalan has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
518 2013-04-05 04:48:49 wrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
519 2013-04-05 04:49:28 Davincij15 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
520 2013-04-05 04:51:43 nowan_ has joined
521 2013-04-05 04:52:22 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
522 2013-04-05 04:52:40 nowan has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
523 2013-04-05 04:52:54 i2pRelay has joined
524 2013-04-05 04:52:58 ralphtheninja has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
525 2013-04-05 04:56:43 Sliver has quit (Quit: ...cyah)
526 2013-04-05 04:57:08 TradeFortress has joined
527 2013-04-05 04:59:30 Namworld has quit ()
528 2013-04-05 04:59:30 ageis has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
529 2013-04-05 05:00:23 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
530 2013-04-05 05:00:56 i2pRelay has joined
531 2013-04-05 05:00:58 forrestv has quit (Changing host)
532 2013-04-05 05:00:58 forrestv has joined
533 2013-04-05 05:02:54 zylche has joined
534 2013-04-05 05:02:58 Guest94090 has joined
535 2013-04-05 05:03:12 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
536 2013-04-05 05:04:24 coolfengyu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
537 2013-04-05 05:04:26 kalleboo_ has quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
538 2013-04-05 05:05:12 coolfengyu has joined
539 2013-04-05 05:05:57 skeledrew has joined
540 2013-04-05 05:08:15 hmmmstrange is now known as thegimp
541 2013-04-05 05:08:24 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
542 2013-04-05 05:08:55 i2pRelay has joined
543 2013-04-05 05:08:58 tyn has joined
544 2013-04-05 05:09:13 ColinT has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
545 2013-04-05 05:12:24 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
546 2013-04-05 05:12:57 coolsa has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
547 2013-04-05 05:13:12 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
548 2013-04-05 05:13:21 skeledrew has joined
549 2013-04-05 05:14:14 Sambucca has joined
550 2013-04-05 05:14:42 thegimp is now known as hmmmstrange
551 2013-04-05 05:15:19 duckybsd has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
552 2013-04-05 05:16:27 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
553 2013-04-05 05:16:58 i2pRelay has joined
554 2013-04-05 05:19:22 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
555 2013-04-05 05:20:12 BTCOxygen has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
556 2013-04-05 05:20:19 BTCOxygen has joined
557 2013-04-05 05:23:53 B0g4r7 has joined
558 2013-04-05 05:24:28 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
559 2013-04-05 05:24:58 i2pRelay has joined
560 2013-04-05 05:25:19 DaQatz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
561 2013-04-05 05:29:16 paybitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
562 2013-04-05 05:29:18 paybitcoin1 has joined
563 2013-04-05 05:32:29 i2pRelay has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
564 2013-04-05 05:32:32 DaQatz has joined
565 2013-04-05 05:32:48 Sambucca has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
566 2013-04-05 05:33:01 coolfengyu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
567 2013-04-05 05:33:16 Cache_Money has joined
568 2013-04-05 05:33:28 coolfengyu has joined
569 2013-04-05 05:36:25 <jrmithdobbs> oh c'mon assholes
570 2013-04-05 05:36:32 <jrmithdobbs> http://www.cnbc.com/id/100615508
571 2013-04-05 05:36:49 <jrmithdobbs> what
572 2013-04-05 05:37:27 <Arnavion> lol that article
573 2013-04-05 05:37:58 <jrmithdobbs> also lol at anyone still trusting MagicalTux with anything
574 2013-04-05 05:38:22 fiatbubble has joined
575 2013-04-05 05:38:26 <BlueMatt> lol cnbc...
576 2013-04-05 05:38:28 <jrmithdobbs> oh was it just a dos
577 2013-04-05 05:38:41 <jrmithdobbs> that article sucks what actually happened lol
578 2013-04-05 05:39:13 <jrmithdobbs> wait, he's calling "completely legal trading tactics" a hack?
579 2013-04-05 05:39:14 <jrmithdobbs> what
580 2013-04-05 05:39:23 <Luke-Jr> lol
581 2013-04-05 05:39:26 <Luke-Jr> jrmithdobbs: just noticed that?
582 2013-04-05 05:39:37 <Luke-Jr> that article was ridiculous
583 2013-04-05 05:39:48 <jrmithdobbs> Luke-Jr: super busy week at work ya
584 2013-04-05 05:39:49 <Cryo> mmm FUD
585 2013-04-05 05:40:00 <jrmithdobbs> Luke-Jr: so what actually happened
586 2013-04-05 05:40:02 <MagicalTux> cnbc loosk misinformed
587 2013-04-05 05:40:06 <Habbie> jrmithdobbs, a DDoS is completely legal when it's part of a trading tactic?
588 2013-04-05 05:40:11 <Luke-Jr> jrmithdobbs: just a DDoS afaik
589 2013-04-05 05:40:17 andytoshi has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0)
590 2013-04-05 05:40:32 <Luke-Jr> MagicalTux: that's an understatement!
591 2013-04-05 05:40:42 <jrmithdobbs> oh "destabilize the exchange" is cnbc-ism for "packet"
592 2013-04-05 05:40:51 <jrmithdobbs> that one definition makes the article actually make sense
593 2013-04-05 05:40:53 <Habbie> not cnbc-ism
594 2013-04-05 05:40:57 <Habbie> mtgox actually put it that way
595 2013-04-05 05:40:58 <EvilPete> huh. unconfirmed tx with spent outputs? https://blockchain.info/tx/578a562743458c128144097996fc6a62e65bf6f8a7803bf5ca29325274429ad3
596 2013-04-05 05:41:32 <Habbie> EvilPete, nothing special about that
597 2013-04-05 05:41:32 <Luke-Jr> EvilPete: yes, so?
598 2013-04-05 05:41:32 <jrmithdobbs> well his english sucks, that's well known
599 2013-04-05 05:41:32 <Habbie> EvilPete, satoshidice does it all the itme
600 2013-04-05 05:41:32 <Habbie> *time
601 2013-04-05 05:41:32 <jrmithdobbs> a mjor news outlet on the other hand
602 2013-04-05 05:41:32 <jrmithdobbs> ;p
603 2013-04-05 05:41:43 <Luke-Jr> jrmithdobbs: btw, why *wouldn't* you trust MT?
604 2013-04-05 05:41:49 <MagicalTux> Luke-Jr: https://twitter.com/MagicalTux/status/320043013420249088
605 2013-04-05 05:42:11 <jrmithdobbs> Habbie: anyways, actually yes i'd say it's a valid trading tactic, it's been done in real markets before we call them "protests" and "political action" and other such things
606 2013-04-05 05:42:23 <Habbie> jrmithdobbs, protests are legal
607 2013-04-05 05:42:28 <Habbie> jrmithdobbs, DDoSes are not, in most countries
608 2013-04-05 05:42:28 ligar has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
609 2013-04-05 05:42:41 <jrmithdobbs> Habbie: and only civil disobedience will change that
610 2013-04-05 05:42:46 <Luke-Jr> â¦
611 2013-04-05 05:42:48 <jrmithdobbs> because they're only illegal because of broken unjust laws
612 2013-04-05 05:42:49 <Habbie> jrmithdobbs, you think DDoS should be legal?
613 2013-04-05 05:42:50 <EvilPete> Luke-Jr: I just hadn't seen bitcoind complaining about fees.. ERROR: CTxMemPool::accept() : not enough fees 578a562743458c128144097996fc6a62e65bf6f8a7803bf5ca29325274429ad3, 0 < 10000.. all over the place
614 2013-04-05 05:42:52 ligar has joined
615 2013-04-05 05:42:55 <Luke-Jr> jrmithdobbs: wtf?
616 2013-04-05 05:43:12 <Habbie> Luke-Jr, we have politicians who think DDoS should be a legal form of protest. it's not unheard of, sadly :(
617 2013-04-05 05:43:13 <jrmithdobbs> i think the terms under which they are currently illegal are incorrect, yes
618 2013-04-05 05:43:28 <Habbie> jrmithdobbs, but do you think they should be legal? or just illegal under other terms?
619 2013-04-05 05:43:29 <jrmithdobbs> but we can't talk about the problem until we remove the brokenness and talk about what to replace it with
620 2013-04-05 05:43:37 <EvilPete> 517 rejections because of fees so far
621 2013-04-05 05:43:41 <sydna> seeing as most DDoS are executed using botnets, they're illegal no matter what
622 2013-04-05 05:43:52 <Luke-Jr> infecting thousands-millions of OTHER PEOPLE's computers, so you can flood a site .. why should that be legal?
623 2013-04-05 05:44:28 <jrmithdobbs> Luke-Jr: the actual act of DDOS shouldn't be, if machines are compromised to do it? sure you have a much stronger case
624 2013-04-05 05:44:33 <jrmithdobbs> but the ddos isn't the illegal part
625 2013-04-05 05:44:48 <sydna> you can't DDoS without a botnet or badly configured DNS
626 2013-04-05 05:44:56 <Habbie> sydna, sure you can, it just costs more money
627 2013-04-05 05:45:03 <jrmithdobbs> if i pay for the bandwidth and pump the amplification attack through the root why shouldn't it be legal?
628 2013-04-05 05:45:13 <Habbie> the root?
629 2013-04-05 05:45:16 <jrmithdobbs> dns
630 2013-04-05 05:45:24 <sydna> you'd be abusing other peoples servers, if nothing else
631 2013-04-05 05:45:30 <Luke-Jr> ^
632 2013-04-05 05:45:34 <jrmithdobbs> eg, publically accessible public services that are responding to my requests
633 2013-04-05 05:45:41 <Cryo> you're using the spammer's defense. I dispute that.
634 2013-04-05 05:45:49 <jrmithdobbs> sydna: no, i'd be requesting a response from public servers to invalid destinations
635 2013-04-05 05:46:02 <sydna> so using an open mail relay to spam is alright too?
636 2013-04-05 05:46:13 <jrmithdobbs> sydna: what's illegal about that? should GET /FUCKINGSHITDOESN'TEXIST HTTP/1.0 be a crime too?
637 2013-04-05 05:46:23 <jrmithdobbs> sydna: indeed
638 2013-04-05 05:46:28 <sydna> what about using a compromised list of email accounts? you didn't hack them, so it's not your problem
639 2013-04-05 05:46:36 <jrmithdobbs> orrect
640 2013-04-05 05:46:38 <jrmithdobbs> correct
641 2013-04-05 05:46:40 <sydna> just DBAA.
642 2013-04-05 05:46:49 <jrmithdobbs> not your problem
643 2013-04-05 05:46:51 <sydna> don't be an asshole.
644 2013-04-05 05:47:09 <OneMiner> Crazy people are crazy, next topic.
645 2013-04-05 05:47:16 <Cryo> that's how you invalidate your whole discussion.
646 2013-04-05 05:47:36 <jrmithdobbs> the culpbable party in that situation are the providers who caused the breach which leaked the auth data
647 2013-04-05 05:47:37 * Luke-Jr writes jrmithdobbs off as a crazy libertarian :P
648 2013-04-05 05:47:57 <sydna> if you log into someone elses account using breached accounts, that's still illegal
649 2013-04-05 05:48:08 <jrmithdobbs> Luke-Jr: no, i'm an advocate for the end of criminalization of computer use by private individuals while absolving companies of all liability
650 2013-04-05 05:48:11 <sydna> in australia at least, that's a 100-200k fine and jail time.
651 2013-04-05 05:48:23 <K1773R> anyone in here pls gimme jrmithdobbs privkey, i take the BTC. according to him this is legal!
652 2013-04-05 05:48:27 <jrmithdobbs> Luke-Jr: that is in fact quite anti-libertarian
653 2013-04-05 05:48:30 owowo has quit (Quit: sayonara)
654 2013-04-05 05:48:41 <jrmithdobbs> K1773R: sure is
655 2013-04-05 05:48:50 <jrmithdobbs> if someone were dumb enough to give you the keys
656 2013-04-05 05:48:54 <jrmithdobbs> in response to that
657 2013-04-05 05:49:05 <Arnavion> jrmithdobbs: If you leave your house unlocked, is it legal for me to walk in and take your stuff?
658 2013-04-05 05:49:08 <Cryo> can you click this zip file I'm sending you?
659 2013-04-05 05:49:11 <K1773R> in this case, pls dont risk ur PCs security and directly deliver the privkeys over. thank you for this sweet service!
660 2013-04-05 05:49:48 saulimus has joined
661 2013-04-05 05:49:49 <Luke-Jr> jrmithdobbs: ok, so say a law forbidding "intentionally disrupting others doing legal business" - how is that unjust?
662 2013-04-05 05:49:54 <jrmithdobbs> Arnavion: because we have millenia of legal history that sets those boundries and the boundries are fairly enforced (for the most part, not always)
663 2013-04-05 05:50:03 <jrmithdobbs> Arnavion: that is a completely different situation.
664 2013-04-05 05:50:23 <K1773R> this is -dev, isnt it? i cant see how this is related...
665 2013-04-05 05:50:31 <OneMiner> One time I unlocked another persons car of the same type with my keys. Got in and was instantly confused. If I hotwired it and drove away I could have had a backup car. :(
666 2013-04-05 05:50:37 <jrmithdobbs> Luke-Jr: it dissalows labor disputes to end in strikes, for starters, you're going to have to do better than that
667 2013-04-05 05:51:10 X-Factor has quit (Quit: ThrashIRC v2.8 sic populo comunicated)
668 2013-04-05 05:51:14 <jrmithdobbs> OneMiner: and the manufacturer should be liable for that
669 2013-04-05 05:51:23 <Luke-Jr> I don't see strikes as being of any value.
670 2013-04-05 05:51:27 <jrmithdobbs> OneMiner: and by 'that' i mean their completely broken crypto on all the shitty door locks
671 2013-04-05 05:52:02 <Cryo> punch out the locks
672 2013-04-05 05:52:07 <EvilPete> So, back to https://blockchain.info/tx/578a562743458c128144097996fc6a62e65bf6f8a7803bf5ca29325274429ad3 again.. unconfirmed after 54 hours, 0.8 says "not enough fees 0 < 10000" even though its tiny. Is this because its non-standard or something? output address is the same as the input?
673 2013-04-05 05:52:12 <jrmithdobbs> Luke-Jr: it also disallows all sorts of public speech
674 2013-04-05 05:52:21 <jrmithdobbs> Luke-Jr: including religious protests/boycotts
675 2013-04-05 05:52:24 <OneMiner> That's nuts. I'm free from responsability and all blame falls on another party. I get a car as windfall. Crazy world would be crazy.
676 2013-04-05 05:53:28 <sydna> ^
677 2013-04-05 05:53:30 <Arnavion> In an ideal world, the car maker would invent crypto keys
678 2013-04-05 05:53:36 <jrmithdobbs> OneMiner: why? the manufacturer sold a faulty product. They should hold at least the majority blame.
679 2013-04-05 05:53:41 <Arnavion> In the real world, the car maker will move its sales to saner countries
680 2013-04-05 05:54:09 <jrmithdobbs> well maybe they should stop ripping off their customers if they want to do business here?
681 2013-04-05 05:54:46 <sydna> ...
682 2013-04-05 05:54:48 <sydna> you're an idiot.
683 2013-04-05 05:54:53 <Cryo> at least the focus of the articles have moved away from omg everyone who is using bitcoin is buying drugs on silk road
684 2013-04-05 05:55:56 <Luke-Jr> Cryo: true
685 2013-04-05 05:56:11 <jrmithdobbs> sydna: you think it's fair that we send people to live in a 8x10 room for 5+ years for the equivilent of what OneMiner just described while the people continuing to sell the same broken shit aren't held liable at all
686 2013-04-05 05:56:20 <fiatbubble> i am autist
687 2013-04-05 05:56:22 <jrmithdobbs> sydna: so only poor people who do bad things should be punished, not corporations. I see.
688 2013-04-05 05:56:28 <fiatbubble> pls send me bitcoins
689 2013-04-05 05:56:33 <OneMiner> jrmithdobbs Because the locks were not made out of unobtanium that never wears out? I see perfectly breakable windows all over the place. Lawn furnature. Hell! Mailboxes that don't lock! I'll be rich!
690 2013-04-05 05:56:47 <Arnavion> Biometric keys!
691 2013-04-05 05:56:51 <Arnavion> Biometric keys on all the things!
692 2013-04-05 05:57:02 * EvilPete . o O (Did I just end up in reddit?)
693 2013-04-05 05:57:03 <sydna> biometric crap doesn't work
694 2013-04-05 05:57:04 Tantadruj has joined
695 2013-04-05 05:57:06 <jrmithdobbs> OneMiner: no, because they've continued selling products using known-to-be-flawed (completely broken, in most cases) security "features"
696 2013-04-05 05:57:15 <jrmithdobbs> OneMiner: and they *charge a premium* for said features
697 2013-04-05 05:57:18 <jrmithdobbs> *that don't work*
698 2013-04-05 05:57:23 tyn has joined
699 2013-04-05 05:57:28 <OneMiner> I don't know what you are refering to now.
700 2013-04-05 05:57:29 <sydna> I like all the "biometric" USB drives that are just hidden partitions
701 2013-04-05 05:57:40 <Arnavion> Lucky for you falsehood in advertising is already a law
702 2013-04-05 05:57:45 <jrmithdobbs> but the kid who probably makes maybe 80k/yr stealing cars gets 5 yrs, fond? tax incentives.
703 2013-04-05 05:57:55 <jrmithdobbs> ford*
704 2013-04-05 05:58:18 <sydna> Arnavion: not in australia. to sell a pharmaceutical product you don't need to provide proof. you just need to say that you *might own* proof.
705 2013-04-05 05:58:20 <fiatbubble> I steal poop
706 2013-04-05 05:58:22 <jrmithdobbs> in what world *is that* fair.
707 2013-04-05 05:58:42 <Arnavion> sydna: Do you have the equivalent of an FDA certification?
708 2013-04-05 05:58:45 jeewee has joined
709 2013-04-05 05:59:00 <fiatbubble> I'm an expert on every subject
710 2013-04-05 05:59:01 <jrmithdobbs> maybe we need to find resolutions to some of these issues that don't involve throwing niggers in 8x10 cells indefinitely to protect large corporate interests?
711 2013-04-05 05:59:04 <jrmithdobbs> free weev
712 2013-04-05 05:59:05 <sydna> Arnavion: that's it. you just need to say you have proof, and you're in. they don't actually verify it.
713 2013-04-05 05:59:07 <jrmithdobbs> ;p
714 2013-04-05 05:59:26 <Arnavion> sydna: Then how do you separate the knock-offs from the real deals?
715 2013-04-05 05:59:56 * sydna shrugs
716 2013-04-05 06:00:03 <Arnavion> Scary
717 2013-04-05 06:00:07 <fiatbubble> free anal sex, food, and shelter
718 2013-04-05 06:00:10 <fiatbubble> brb prison
719 2013-04-05 06:00:16 <sydna> a lot of pharmaceutical products here are bullshit
720 2013-04-05 06:00:29 <jrmithdobbs> the fact that that's an acceptable joke in our society is absolutely disgusting.
721 2013-04-05 06:00:32 <jrmithdobbs> just sayin.
722 2013-04-05 06:00:34 Liquid3xB has quit (Quit: Leaving)
723 2013-04-05 06:00:37 <sydna> if they do get taken off the market, they just come back in a different brand
724 2013-04-05 06:01:09 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
725 2013-04-05 06:01:10 <Arnavion> Well when I said certification, I was talking about some sort of marking on the item itself
726 2013-04-05 06:01:36 kadoban has joined
727 2013-04-05 06:01:43 <sydna> not as far as I know
728 2013-04-05 06:01:54 da2ce7 has quit (Quit: Bye)
729 2013-04-05 06:02:12 <OneMiner> jrmithdobbs The prison thing I'll agree with. The "corrections" system is a poorly named joke.
730 2013-04-05 06:02:28 <BlueMatt> #bitcoin-dev?
731 2013-04-05 06:02:49 <jrmithdobbs> OneMiner: I'm just proposing we start swaying the balance the other direction, you don't get little things by asking for little things you know ;p
732 2013-04-05 06:02:57 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: noone was talking any way, meh
733 2013-04-05 06:03:24 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: meh, Im going to bed (midterm tomorrow) feel free to continue discussing anal sex and pharma...
734 2013-04-05 06:03:33 <BlueMatt> someone is gonna be mad when they read scrollback though...
735 2013-04-05 06:03:39 <Habbie> and confused
736 2013-04-05 06:03:54 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: i didn't bring either of those up.
737 2013-04-05 06:03:56 <jrmithdobbs> :)
738 2013-04-05 06:04:05 <OneMiner> I agree with that as well #bitcoin-offtopic would be a good place for this. I'm going to bed too.
739 2013-04-05 06:04:18 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: not my fault the bitcoin community is full of disgusting lolbertarians
740 2013-04-05 06:04:21 <jrmithdobbs> ;p
741 2013-04-05 06:04:32 saulimus has quit (Quit: saulimus)
742 2013-04-05 06:07:37 RoboTeddy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
743 2013-04-05 06:08:16 RoboTeddy has joined
744 2013-04-05 06:09:42 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: dude, ! don't crap on this channel with banter on newslinks
745 2013-04-05 06:10:02 ColinT has joined
746 2013-04-05 06:14:44 * fiatbubble farts
747 2013-04-05 06:15:21 midnightmagic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
748 2013-04-05 06:16:25 grau has joined
749 2013-04-05 06:16:32 tyn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
750 2013-04-05 06:17:07 ColinT has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
751 2013-04-05 06:17:23 TriNitroToluene has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
752 2013-04-05 06:19:48 brwyatt_ is now known as brwyatt_|Away
753 2013-04-05 06:19:50 bernie has joined
754 2013-04-05 06:20:42 n1c has joined
755 2013-04-05 06:23:51 nethershaw has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
756 2013-04-05 06:23:59 nethershaw has joined
757 2013-04-05 06:25:35 MobPhone has joined
758 2013-04-05 06:27:33 XertroV has joined
759 2013-04-05 06:28:47 pizzacat has joined
760 2013-04-05 06:30:02 ayalan has joined
761 2013-04-05 06:30:12 nus-- has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
762 2013-04-05 06:30:29 nus-- has joined
763 2013-04-05 06:33:11 sydna has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
764 2013-04-05 06:37:47 coolfengyu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
765 2013-04-05 06:38:12 saulimus has joined
766 2013-04-05 06:39:40 coolfengyu has joined
767 2013-04-05 06:39:55 Tantadruj has quit (Quit: DoubleRecall Turns Paywalls Into Advertising Dollars - NYTimes.com http://nyti.ms/odHOgy)
768 2013-04-05 06:41:20 qeb has joined
769 2013-04-05 06:42:28 normanrichards has quit ()
770 2013-04-05 06:42:59 leprosys has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
771 2013-04-05 06:43:03 Tantadruj has joined
772 2013-04-05 06:48:04 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
773 2013-04-05 06:48:39 <gmaxwell> EvilPete: RE: https://blockchain.info/tx/578a562743458c128144097996fc6a62e65bf6f8a7803bf5ca29325274429ad3
774 2013-04-05 06:48:49 <gmaxwell> it has an output less than 0.01
775 2013-04-05 06:49:08 <gmaxwell> This _disqualifies_ it from being acceptable to the reference software as a free transaction.
776 2013-04-05 06:49:20 <gmaxwell> Please see https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees
777 2013-04-05 06:49:35 <gmaxwell> These rules have been in place for many years and have not change in recent software.
778 2013-04-05 06:50:20 <EvilPete> gmaxwell: not my transaction, but I'm getting a lot of log spam about it.. it'll come in several hundred at a time, presumably from older peers.
779 2013-04-05 06:50:42 <gmaxwell> no, not older peers.. there is nothing old on the network that would think that was okay.
780 2013-04-05 06:51:09 <gmaxwell> I think blockchain.info agressively floods out unconfirmed txns or something.
781 2013-04-05 06:51:22 metabyte has joined
782 2013-04-05 06:51:24 <gmaxwell> (I'm speculating there)
783 2013-04-05 06:51:45 <gmaxwell> It's at least a somewhat new behaviorâ I wasn't notcing it a few months ago, but now after every block I get slammed with a zillion txn
784 2013-04-05 06:51:57 <EvilPete> They seem to be doing something special because they show transactions that the rest of the network won't accept
785 2013-04-05 06:52:19 <gmaxwell> they show all kinds of things, includingâ in the pastâ totally invalid txn
786 2013-04-05 06:52:24 <EvilPete> I got that txn 547 times in the last hour or so..
787 2013-04-05 06:52:31 Liquid3xB has joined
788 2013-04-05 06:52:35 <gmaxwell> That one txn? :-/
789 2013-04-05 06:52:39 <EvilPete> yes
790 2013-04-05 06:52:47 <EvilPete> from multiple different peers.
791 2013-04-05 06:52:59 <EvilPete> if I'm reading the log right.
792 2013-04-05 06:53:04 <gmaxwell> (for amusement, I was fooling around and someone made this screenshot of my anctics: https://people.xiph.org/~greg/21mbtc.png )
793 2013-04-05 06:53:23 <Habbie> lol
794 2013-04-05 06:53:28 <gmaxwell> it doesn't log what peer it got messages from.
795 2013-04-05 06:53:47 <Habbie> blockchain sometimes does
796 2013-04-05 06:53:57 ayalan has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
797 2013-04-05 06:54:08 <gmaxwell> Habbie: thats not what EvilPete is talking about.
798 2013-04-05 06:54:14 <Habbie> ok
799 2013-04-05 06:54:41 <Retik> anyone done anything with the bitinstant api?
800 2013-04-05 06:55:00 <EvilPete> Sadly I didn't even have timestamps on for that node, I'm getting the "about an hour" because I rotated the logs and restarted it about 1.5 hours ago.
801 2013-04-05 06:56:23 <gmaxwell> honestly, looking at the transactions here, https://blockchain.info/address/1NNLSreQ376112pYtLzZXTcymYc9MkYsGQ
802 2013-04-05 06:56:30 <gmaxwell> I think this is some kind of network profiling attack.
803 2013-04-05 06:56:35 DaQatz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
804 2013-04-05 06:56:42 Cache_Money has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
805 2013-04-05 06:57:02 <EvilPete> yeah, the change-to-self is special.
806 2013-04-05 06:58:27 <EvilPete> Is that something blockchain.info does as a matter of routine?
807 2013-04-05 06:58:43 [Author] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
808 2013-04-05 06:58:43 DaQatz has joined
809 2013-04-05 06:59:39 <gmaxwell> dunno, its a bad practice however... but I doubt these are blockchain.info originated txnâ it should be smart enough to not produce feeless sub 0.01 btc outputs
810 2013-04-05 07:00:29 grau has joined
811 2013-04-05 07:02:15 meefozio has quit ()
812 2013-04-05 07:03:47 <EvilPete> gmaxwell: I wonder if the originator of the transaction will turn up..
813 2013-04-05 07:04:27 [Author] has joined
814 2013-04-05 07:05:44 RoboTeddy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
815 2013-04-05 07:06:47 eoss has joined
816 2013-04-05 07:12:34 Belxjander has quit (Read error: No route to host)
817 2013-04-05 07:12:36 <EvilPete> gmaxwell: so, general summary.. that tx isn't acceptable to any nodes, and you don't think I'm getting it from multiple nodes, but perhaps just one that is aggressively resending it?
818 2013-04-05 07:12:50 <EvilPete> any mainline nodes
819 2013-04-05 07:13:16 Phraust has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
820 2013-04-05 07:14:21 <gmaxwell> EvilPete: I think thats likely, I'm not sure so I'm trying to observe it myself, but I haven't yet.
821 2013-04-05 07:14:26 upstream has joined
822 2013-04-05 07:14:32 <upstream> :-(
823 2013-04-05 07:14:50 jrmithdobbs has joined
824 2013-04-05 07:14:55 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
825 2013-04-05 07:15:13 Scrat has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
826 2013-04-05 07:15:31 copumpkin has joined
827 2013-04-05 07:16:19 Belxjander has joined
828 2013-04-05 07:16:45 Darin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
829 2013-04-05 07:19:00 systemParanoid has quit (Quit: Leaving)
830 2013-04-05 07:19:56 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
831 2013-04-05 07:20:38 deadweasel has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
832 2013-04-05 07:21:06 Phraust has joined
833 2013-04-05 07:21:07 Phraust has quit (Changing host)
834 2013-04-05 07:21:07 Phraust has joined
835 2013-04-05 07:22:06 deadweasel has joined
836 2013-04-05 07:24:09 dbe has joined
837 2013-04-05 07:24:33 dbe is now known as Guest39578
838 2013-04-05 07:25:43 upstream has left ()
839 2013-04-05 07:27:35 [Author] has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
840 2013-04-05 07:28:32 grau has joined
841 2013-04-05 07:30:37 PhantomSpark has joined
842 2013-04-05 07:31:46 Thepok has joined
843 2013-04-05 07:32:33 <EvilPete> gmaxwell: if you dig through 3-4 levels deep of transactions related to those addresses.. bitcoin-24.com has turned up a few times.
844 2013-04-05 07:32:35 [Author] has joined
845 2013-04-05 07:33:22 DrAkaman has joined
846 2013-04-05 07:34:18 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
847 2013-04-05 07:34:31 worraps has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
848 2013-04-05 07:35:22 RoboTeddy has joined
849 2013-04-05 07:36:58 sydna has joined
850 2013-04-05 07:37:00 Diablo-D3 has joined
851 2013-04-05 07:37:13 <sydna> who is in control of the bitcoin.it wiki?
852 2013-04-05 07:37:30 <sydna> there's uh, a bit of an impending spam problem â https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&limit=500
853 2013-04-05 07:37:30 <wumpus> mtgox afaik
854 2013-04-05 07:38:22 <sydna> eek
855 2013-04-05 07:38:41 zrad has joined
856 2013-04-05 07:39:38 <wumpus> at least hosted on their servers, I don't know about 'controlled', I think people are complaining mostly about a lack of moderators and control instead of overeager ones
857 2013-04-05 07:39:40 InsuDra has joined
858 2013-04-05 07:39:44 DrAkaman has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
859 2013-04-05 07:39:51 LainZ has joined
860 2013-04-05 07:40:05 DrAkaman has joined
861 2013-04-05 07:40:13 <sydna> they certainly need some form of captcha, a new user every few minutes is bad
862 2013-04-05 07:40:20 <gmaxwell> sydna: no impending spam problem.
863 2013-04-05 07:40:26 <gmaxwell> sydna: those users can't do anything
864 2013-04-05 07:40:51 Insu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
865 2013-04-05 07:41:01 <sydna> new users can't do anything, or just those bots?
866 2013-04-05 07:41:03 sebicas has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
867 2013-04-05 07:41:05 <gmaxwell> We completely solved the spam problem using a sopicated distributed network of tens of thousands of nodes along with custom cryptographic asics and megawatts of power....
868 2013-04-05 07:41:16 sebicas has joined
869 2013-04-05 07:41:18 <gmaxwell> (you must pay 0.01 btc per account in order to edit)
870 2013-04-05 07:41:22 <sydna> ah!
871 2013-04-05 07:41:54 <gmaxwell> So someone in #bitcoin is reporting that his nodes on his lan are banning each other: http://pastebin.com/zw7drrZu
872 2013-04-05 07:41:54 <petertodd> gmaxwell: Nifty! Are those anti-spam credits transferable in some way? Maybe they're worth something...
873 2013-04-05 07:41:57 <EvilPete> gmaxwell: " Relaying
874 2013-04-05 07:41:59 <EvilPete> The reference implementation's rules for relaying transactions across the peer-to-peer network are very similar to the rules for sending transactions, but a smaller value of 0.0001 BTC is used to determine whether or not a transaction is considered "Free"."
875 2013-04-05 07:42:23 <gmaxwell> EvilPete: yes that value refers to the fee required, not the output size.
876 2013-04-05 07:42:48 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
877 2013-04-05 07:43:05 <EvilPete> The writeup doesn't say if its the fee or the smallest output
878 2013-04-05 07:43:16 XertroV has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
879 2013-04-05 07:43:16 qeb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
880 2013-04-05 07:43:28 <gmaxwell> It's the fee.
881 2013-04-05 07:43:33 <gmaxwell> CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted f5a74ae217 (poolsz 158)
882 2013-04-05 07:43:33 <gmaxwell> received getdata for: tx f5a74ae217
883 2013-04-05 07:43:33 <gmaxwell> ERROR: CTransaction::CheckTransaction() : vin empty
884 2013-04-05 07:43:33 <gmaxwell> ERROR: CTxMemPool::accept() : CheckTransaction failed
885 2013-04-05 07:43:38 <gmaxwell> The ordering here confuses me.
886 2013-04-05 07:43:44 <gmaxwell> why is getdata after accepted?
887 2013-04-05 07:43:50 <EvilPete> Yep, I was getting those a lot.
888 2013-04-05 07:43:55 <EvilPete> I asked about it
889 2013-04-05 07:44:33 <EvilPete> gmaxwell: one of my 0.8's banned my other 0.8 over that
890 2013-04-05 07:44:54 <gmaxwell> EvilPete: yea, I've now got a second report.
891 2013-04-05 07:45:04 <EvilPete> Misbehaving: X.X.X.X:8333 (90 -> 100) DISCONNECTING
892 2013-04-05 07:45:18 <gmaxwell> Both of you have the same property of running multiple nodes yourself.. Are you on windows?
893 2013-04-05 07:45:34 <sipa> gmaxwell: sure it is about the same transaction?
894 2013-04-05 07:45:35 <EvilPete> every single "ResendWalletTransactions()" caused a +10.
895 2013-04-05 07:46:13 <gmaxwell> sipa: can't be sure... but if it's not someone searched for something that collided the first 32 bits.
896 2013-04-05 07:46:16 <EvilPete> gmaxwell: unix (BSD) build from git v0.8.0 tagged source. I've since switched to v0.8.1 tag
897 2013-04-05 07:46:28 <gmaxwell> EvilPete: still stting the behavior?
898 2013-04-05 07:46:41 <EvilPete> gmaxwell: a "-salvagewallet" made it go away, but that probably just purged a weird tx
899 2013-04-05 07:47:18 <EvilPete> I have the wallet backup, but it is unencrypted and was used to gather mining outputs
900 2013-04-05 07:47:37 <sipa> gmaxwell: it doesn't make sense that it accept and relayed, before checking, as the check itself is called from CTxMempool::accept...
901 2013-04-05 07:47:56 coolfengyu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
902 2013-04-05 07:48:22 <EvilPete> http://pastebin.com/zkGyn0NA was a 3rd party peer sending tx's to me
903 2013-04-05 07:49:08 <EvilPete> I am still seeing it. eg:
904 2013-04-05 07:49:09 <EvilPete> ERROR: CTransaction::CheckTransaction() : vin empty
905 2013-04-05 07:49:10 <EvilPete> ERROR: CTxMemPool::accept() : CheckTransaction failed
906 2013-04-05 07:49:10 <EvilPete> Misbehaving: 122.107.53.18:8333 (10 -> 20)
907 2013-04-05 07:49:24 coolfengyu has joined
908 2013-04-05 07:49:47 <gmaxwell> EvilPete: can you paste more complete logs around one of these events?
909 2013-04-05 07:49:52 Lolcust has quit (Quit: Nap time)
910 2013-04-05 07:51:07 Lolcust has joined
911 2013-04-05 07:51:20 eoss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
912 2013-04-05 07:51:28 <EvilPete> Yes, give me a moment
913 2013-04-05 07:52:03 HM has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
914 2013-04-05 07:52:06 dino___ has joined
915 2013-04-05 07:52:57 <gmaxwell> 00:17 < inglebert> gmaxwell: sorry didn't tag you last time, they're all installed off the same windows installer, except for .0.13 which is on ubuntu, updated via synaptic. all 0.8
916 2013-04-05 07:52:59 <EvilPete> http://pastebin.com/hYurQnNi - any help?
917 2013-04-05 07:53:04 XertroV has joined
918 2013-04-05 07:53:04 <gmaxwell> is the other fellow hitting this
919 2013-04-05 07:54:05 <EvilPete> it'll have logtimestamps at the next restart
920 2013-04-05 07:55:01 stretchwarren has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
921 2013-04-05 07:56:36 valparaiso_afk is now known as valparaiso
922 2013-04-05 07:57:10 ovidiusoft has joined
923 2013-04-05 07:57:53 stretchwarren has joined
924 2013-04-05 07:58:28 MobGod has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
925 2013-04-05 08:00:05 <EvilPete> gmaxwell: re the ordering.. isn't that logging the case where we approve a message and add it to mempool then inform peers, and some of them do a getdata for it? Meanwhile the CheckTransaction failed is for a different one entirely that never even makes it to mempool and doesn't even have an id listed
926 2013-04-05 08:02:08 <gmaxwell> yea, I was having a blonde moment as sipa pointed out
927 2013-04-05 08:05:49 mappum has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
928 2013-04-05 08:06:40 lodse has joined
929 2013-04-05 08:07:07 Scrat has joined
930 2013-04-05 08:07:49 coolfengyu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
931 2013-04-05 08:09:47 coolfengyu has joined
932 2013-04-05 08:12:33 Tantadruj has quit (Quit: DoubleRecall Turns Paywalls Into Advertising Dollars - NYTimes.com http://nyti.ms/odHOgy)
933 2013-04-05 08:12:42 MobPhone has quit (Quit: -a- Android IRC 2.0.2)
934 2013-04-05 08:15:15 mughat has joined
935 2013-04-05 08:15:33 coolfengyu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
936 2013-04-05 08:16:27 coolfengyu has joined
937 2013-04-05 08:20:17 Goonie_ has joined
938 2013-04-05 08:22:43 ltrottier has quit (Quit: ltrottier)
939 2013-04-05 08:22:51 kalleboo_ has joined
940 2013-04-05 08:26:27 toffoo has quit ()
941 2013-04-05 08:28:07 ThomasV has joined
942 2013-04-05 08:29:39 tockitj has joined
943 2013-04-05 08:30:03 tockitj has quit (Changing host)
944 2013-04-05 08:30:03 tockitj has joined
945 2013-04-05 08:31:28 DrAkaman has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
946 2013-04-05 08:36:23 banghouse has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
947 2013-04-05 08:40:20 t7 has joined
948 2013-04-05 08:41:39 Brizzo has joined
949 2013-04-05 08:41:45 newbie65 has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
950 2013-04-05 08:42:23 Hawkwood has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
951 2013-04-05 08:43:27 bolapara_ has joined
952 2013-04-05 08:44:32 dino___ has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
953 2013-04-05 08:47:49 avangeek has joined
954 2013-04-05 08:47:57 Brizzo has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
955 2013-04-05 08:49:15 XertroV has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
956 2013-04-05 08:55:52 jez0990 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
957 2013-04-05 08:57:26 GlitchNZ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
958 2013-04-05 08:59:53 _dr has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
959 2013-04-05 09:05:06 Thepok has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
960 2013-04-05 09:06:30 yulu has joined
961 2013-04-05 09:06:55 OPrime has joined
962 2013-04-05 09:07:09 czaanja has joined
963 2013-04-05 09:07:14 <yulu> test
964 2013-04-05 09:08:57 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
965 2013-04-05 09:09:25 Arnavion has quit (Quit: Arnavion)
966 2013-04-05 09:09:47 Arnavion has joined
967 2013-04-05 09:16:07 grau has joined
968 2013-04-05 09:16:47 quaz0r has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
969 2013-04-05 09:18:14 quaz has joined
970 2013-04-05 09:18:58 quaz is now known as quaz0r
971 2013-04-05 09:20:06 <lupine> is there functionality for a bunch of bitcoin instances to share a single blockchain copy?
972 2013-04-05 09:20:10 XertroV has joined
973 2013-04-05 09:20:40 <lupine> if I've got several running in the same house, there seems to be little point to them keeping track of it independently - might as well let one do the gruntwork, and have the others consult it
974 2013-04-05 09:21:18 Anduck has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
975 2013-04-05 09:21:24 <Scrat> lupine: no
976 2013-04-05 09:21:33 <lupine> patches welcome? ;)
977 2013-04-05 09:22:22 <lupine> slapping the blockchain onto an nfs mount is trivial, but I guess there'd be synchronisation issues
978 2013-04-05 09:22:26 <Scrat> how would locking be done over the network?
979 2013-04-05 09:22:34 <Scrat> not an easy task
980 2013-04-05 09:22:38 <lupine> the same way any other database does locking
981 2013-04-05 09:22:40 CaptainBlaze has joined
982 2013-04-05 09:23:15 <wumpus> lupine: the solution would be to split bitcoind into a block chain and wallet daemons
983 2013-04-05 09:23:33 Anduck has joined
984 2013-04-05 09:23:33 Anduck has quit (Changing host)
985 2013-04-05 09:23:33 Anduck has joined
986 2013-04-05 09:23:42 nx201 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
987 2013-04-05 09:23:46 <lupine> aye, that'd be a way to do it
988 2013-04-05 09:23:52 <Scrat> lupine: not aware of any database that will support multiple daemons accessing the same db over a network, even embedded ones
989 2013-04-05 09:23:59 <wumpus> I think there are some other implementations that can do this (based on bitcoinj), but I don't know specifics
990 2013-04-05 09:24:01 <lupine> seems bdb supports concurrent access, by the way, just not over nfs
991 2013-04-05 09:24:17 <wumpus> but it doesn't work with the current software, please do not try any nfs hacks
992 2013-04-05 09:24:17 <lupine> Scrat, it is the raison d'etre of basically every database system in the world
993 2013-04-05 09:24:37 <wumpus> current bitcoind software, that is
994 2013-04-05 09:24:37 <lupine> mm, it's obviously going to need client changes to work :)
995 2013-04-05 09:24:59 <sipa> wumpus: i'm actually beginning to think that splitting into a blockchain/verify daemon, and an SPV+wallet client would be nice
996 2013-04-05 09:25:00 <Eliel> separation into blockchain and wallet daemons sounds good to me
997 2013-04-05 09:25:01 CodeShar_ has joined
998 2013-04-05 09:25:21 <wumpus> sipa: yes, it would be
999 2013-04-05 09:25:27 <sipa> wumpus: that way, it'd work evenbwithout the blockchain being lresent on the same code
1000 2013-04-05 09:25:33 <lupine> http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E17076_02/html/programmer_reference/lock.html
1001 2013-04-05 09:25:44 <sipa> bah, typing on a phone :)
1002 2013-04-05 09:25:46 <wumpus> it also means that the wallet is not in the P2P process, which can increase security... I think there are only advantages
1003 2013-04-05 09:25:58 <sipa> indeed
1004 2013-04-05 09:26:34 <Eliel> you could get by with having an option to disable the blockchain download initially.
1005 2013-04-05 09:26:47 fishfishclone has quit (Quit: Zzzzz..zzzzz)
1006 2013-04-05 09:26:51 CodeShark has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1007 2013-04-05 09:26:56 <Eliel> rather than complete separation
1008 2013-04-05 09:26:59 <sipa> that'd mean you still need a block header database
1009 2013-04-05 09:27:01 <lupine> the plan is to rip bdb out anyway, isn't it?
1010 2013-04-05 09:27:02 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1011 2013-04-05 09:27:06 <wumpus> lupine: but it may be that multiwallet support (which is coming) will already solve your problem of multiple wallets with one blockchain
1012 2013-04-05 09:27:10 <sipa> which is the hardest part
1013 2013-04-05 09:27:15 <wumpus> lupine: yes
1014 2013-04-05 09:27:34 <lupine> wumpus, eh, the different wallets run on different computers, although trust is not an issue between them since I control them all
1015 2013-04-05 09:27:37 <wumpus> well, it needs to be kept indefinitely for backwards compatibility, but the idea is to stop relying on it for the wallet, yes
1016 2013-04-05 09:28:05 <sipa> wumpus: conversion can be done by a separate to
1017 2013-04-05 09:28:05 <lupine> the ideal for me would be a postgres-stored block chain, of course ^^
1018 2013-04-05 09:28:17 <wumpus> there was a guy doing that
1019 2013-04-05 09:28:42 <sipa> lupine: no, it isn't... you don't actually need a blockchain to run a wallet at all
1020 2013-04-05 09:28:47 <Scrat> wallet needs to be on sqlite :p
1021 2013-04-05 09:28:53 <wumpus> sipa: I wonder what to use for communication between the spv wallet and the blockchain daemon, I'd hate to invent another protocol :P
1022 2013-04-05 09:28:55 <sipa> the blockchain is just needed for verification
1023 2013-04-05 09:29:09 <sipa> wumpus: heh, the p2p protocol of course
1024 2013-04-05 09:29:16 <wumpus> that'd work? ok, cool
1025 2013-04-05 09:29:29 <sipa> it works now for multibit and android wallet
1026 2013-04-05 09:29:32 drizztbsd has joined
1027 2013-04-05 09:29:34 drizztbsd has quit (Changing host)
1028 2013-04-05 09:29:34 drizztbsd has joined
1029 2013-04-05 09:29:43 <sipa> why wouldn't it work, it was what it was designed for
1030 2013-04-05 09:29:53 <gmaxwell> lupine: why are you linking to BDB stuff??
1031 2013-04-05 09:30:08 <Scrat> lupine: blockchain isnt on BDB
1032 2013-04-05 09:30:14 <wumpus> sipa: the difference is that this SPV client should only connect to one, configured, blockchain daemon
1033 2013-04-05 09:30:25 <wumpus> not "let's pick one!"
1034 2013-04-05 09:30:34 <sipa> wumpus: so connect to only one?
1035 2013-04-05 09:30:49 <sipa> thag would be the mostntrivial code change imaginable, i guess
1036 2013-04-05 09:30:51 <gmaxwell> wumpus: yea, not connecting to more things only simplifies the software. :P
1037 2013-04-05 09:31:07 <wumpus> right
1038 2013-04-05 09:31:39 <lupine> hmm, is it not? well, good :), I guess I just assumed it was since the wallet was
1039 2013-04-05 09:31:41 B0g4r7 has joined
1040 2013-04-05 09:31:47 <sipa> wumpus: also, SPV does imply you locally maintain block headers, which is techbjcally duplication, but it would greatly minimize the number of different protocols/configurations
1041 2013-04-05 09:31:52 <gmaxwell> Though if we're to do that we'll need to add an authenticated p2p protocol at some point... otherwise many genuises will start hooking up $really valueable stuff$ across public networks with bad results. :P
1042 2013-04-05 09:32:02 <sipa> lupine: it used to be, until 0.7
1043 2013-04-05 09:32:15 <lupine> ah, so I'm just out of date, rather than completely wrong
1044 2013-04-05 09:33:03 <gmaxwell> lupine: I was just confused that you mentioned it several times and no one seemed to be correcting you. :P
1045 2013-04-05 09:33:04 <wumpus> sipa: yes, agreed
1046 2013-04-05 09:33:11 <gmaxwell> (wondered if I was missing something!)
1047 2013-04-05 09:34:03 <wumpus> gmaxwell: well, for his nfs sharing trick to fail, it arguably doesn't matter whether the database is using bdb or leveldb :p
1048 2013-04-05 09:34:04 Anduck has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1049 2013-04-05 09:35:02 <Scrat> sipa: even before 0.7, wasnt it stored on a custom raw format?
1050 2013-04-05 09:35:04 <gmaxwell> well sharing the db wouldn't work in any case.. because there is a lot of important state in the daemon too.
1051 2013-04-05 09:35:13 <wumpus> exactly
1052 2013-04-05 09:35:24 Anduck has joined
1053 2013-04-05 09:35:24 Anduck has quit (Changing host)
1054 2013-04-05 09:35:24 Anduck has joined
1055 2013-04-05 09:35:31 <sipa> Scrat: blocks were and still are stored in network format on disk
1056 2013-04-05 09:35:33 <wumpus> Scrat: yes the raw blocks were stored too, database was an index
1057 2013-04-05 09:35:51 <sipa> Scrat: but the block chain database was bdb and isnleveldb now
1058 2013-04-05 09:36:23 CodeShar_ has quit ()
1059 2013-04-05 09:36:44 CodeShark has joined
1060 2013-04-05 09:37:27 <Scrat> always thought blockchain meant blocks and blocks alone
1061 2013-04-05 09:37:31 <lupine> and leveldb is single-process-access, bless it
1062 2013-04-05 09:37:48 <Scrat> even if you call it a database
1063 2013-04-05 09:38:06 <sipa> it's a key-value store with batch updates :)
1064 2013-04-05 09:38:20 <gmaxwell> lupine: multiple process access wouldn't have helped you in any case.
1065 2013-04-05 09:38:54 <lupine> well, if it doesn't need the block chain to run, that's even better, obviously
1066 2013-04-05 09:39:44 <gmaxwell> lupine: the idea is you would run one blockchain daemon and many wallets.
1067 2013-04-05 09:39:52 <sipa> lupine: you can right now use multibit for example as a wallet client, and connect it to your single bitcoind running in your network (though it seems to be a bit lagging in features)
1068 2013-04-05 09:40:37 <lupine> mm, I do prefer to stay with the stock client, for reasons I can't explain
1069 2013-04-05 09:41:17 <sipa> right, so we should move to support that model :)
1070 2013-04-05 09:41:27 jdnavarro has joined
1071 2013-04-05 09:41:39 <Scrat> I wonder if its easy for bitcoind to be more "passive" ie. accept transactions of addresses in its wallet as if they were made by it
1072 2013-04-05 09:42:08 <sipa> Scrat: as a fully verifying node, no
1073 2013-04-05 09:42:19 <sipa> you need to process all blocks
1074 2013-04-05 09:42:31 RazielZ has joined
1075 2013-04-05 09:42:39 m0mchil has joined
1076 2013-04-05 09:42:46 <sipa> if you don't want the security of that verification, well then technically you don't need it at all
1077 2013-04-05 09:44:27 <Scrat> not from a verifying perspective. ie. I want to send a raw transaction from elsewhere (or even use b.i) but I my understanding is that it will cock up if it doesn't make the transaction itself
1078 2013-04-05 09:47:31 gagecolton has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1079 2013-04-05 09:50:00 <sipa> i don't understand
1080 2013-04-05 09:50:16 <sipa> creating a raw transaction should be perfectly possible for a wallet-only client
1081 2013-04-05 09:50:45 <sipa> actually, that is what every wallet client out there does...
1082 2013-04-05 09:50:52 <Habbie> Scrat, my understanding is that that will Just Work
1083 2013-04-05 09:53:07 <Scrat> sipa: ok how about this: you dump a privkey, then use it on b.i to send to somewhere (it will use the same address as change), then your change is unspendable on your vanilla client
1084 2013-04-05 09:53:30 <sipa> Scrat: that's purely because of incompatibilities between how those wallets work
1085 2013-04-05 09:53:35 <gmaxwell> Scrat: having private keys is multiple wallets â or even using dump in general is inadvisable.
1086 2013-04-05 09:53:39 <sipa> not inherent to having a blockchain present or not
1087 2013-04-05 09:53:52 <Scrat> gmaxwell: of course it is
1088 2013-04-05 09:54:32 BlackPrapor has joined
1089 2013-04-05 09:56:44 coblee has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1090 2013-04-05 09:57:06 coblee has joined
1091 2013-04-05 10:01:05 Ogig has joined
1092 2013-04-05 10:02:46 <Scrat> I also wonder if bitcoind should handle rpc timeouts, since it departs from the usual daemon model (of not locking the RPC for seconds). if you let the client handle timeouts there is a possibility that as your client abandons the request it gets fulfilled by the server, which would be bad especially for sending
1093 2013-04-05 10:02:49 Anduck has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1094 2013-04-05 10:04:36 duckybsd has joined
1095 2013-04-05 10:11:20 Guest39578 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1096 2013-04-05 10:12:12 tkolsto has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1097 2013-04-05 10:13:27 jaequery has joined
1098 2013-04-05 10:17:01 Reinz has joined
1099 2013-04-05 10:18:14 Wayno has joined
1100 2013-04-05 10:18:44 <Wayno> hey guys quick question, in bitcoind getinfo it shows as "balance" : 0.00000000,
1101 2013-04-05 10:18:57 <Wayno> but in the php wallet shows it has coin
1102 2013-04-05 10:19:01 <Wayno> is the getinfo bugged?
1103 2013-04-05 10:19:12 <fiatbubble> check blockchain
1104 2013-04-05 10:19:42 <sipa> "the php wallet" ?
1105 2013-04-05 10:19:57 <Wayno> php wallet sorry is php script to show the data
1106 2013-04-05 10:20:12 <Wayno> blockchain shows the same
1107 2013-04-05 10:20:14 <Wayno> correct amount
1108 2013-04-05 10:20:23 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1109 2013-04-05 10:20:57 fishfish has joined
1110 2013-04-05 10:21:02 <sydna> just reiterating. coinbase.com is exposing your personal details.
1111 2013-04-05 10:21:15 <sydna> anyone can google search and find completed transactions
1112 2013-04-05 10:21:21 <Wayno> yes i know
1113 2013-04-05 10:21:30 trianglelover has joined
1114 2013-04-05 10:21:48 <Scrat> sydna: sauce?
1115 2013-04-05 10:21:52 <sydna> https://coinbase.com/checkouts/82115b5058f48bfd96a55686a777692f
1116 2013-04-05 10:22:01 <sydna> google DORK for "site:https://coinbase.com/checkouts/"
1117 2013-04-05 10:22:05 <Scrat> oh lol
1118 2013-04-05 10:22:15 XertroV has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1119 2013-04-05 10:22:31 <sipa> Wayno: and why would the php wallet show the same as your local bitcoind?
1120 2013-04-05 10:22:40 <sipa> what wallet does it connect to?
1121 2013-04-05 10:23:10 <Wayno> it should show the same ammount as getinfo
1122 2013-04-05 10:23:13 <Wayno> but it does not
1123 2013-04-05 10:23:17 <Wayno> thats why i am asking
1124 2013-04-05 10:23:21 <sydna> unconfirmed coins?
1125 2013-04-05 10:23:25 <Wayno> nope
1126 2013-04-05 10:23:33 <Wayno> they are confirmed
1127 2013-04-05 10:23:39 <sipa> does that php wallet script connect to the same bitcoind?
1128 2013-04-05 10:23:44 <Wayno> yes
1129 2013-04-05 10:23:56 tsche has quit ()
1130 2013-04-05 10:24:51 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1131 2013-04-05 10:26:01 kermit_ has joined
1132 2013-04-05 10:27:16 <sydna> how much are you off by?
1133 2013-04-05 10:27:57 <Wayno> 213btc in wallet
1134 2013-04-05 10:28:06 <Wayno> shows as 0 >.>
1135 2013-04-05 10:28:34 <sydna> now that's scary
1136 2013-04-05 10:28:45 <sydna> I sincerely hope you have those private keys backed up
1137 2013-04-05 10:29:46 <sydna> if you don't, now is the time to do it
1138 2013-04-05 10:30:15 tsche has joined
1139 2013-04-05 10:30:32 <Wayno> yeah
1140 2013-04-05 10:30:51 <lupine> ... again ?
1141 2013-04-05 10:32:26 X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1142 2013-04-05 10:36:05 AlbertTuring has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
1143 2013-04-05 10:37:05 trianglelover is now known as robocoin
1144 2013-04-05 10:40:44 Diablo-D3 has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1145 2013-04-05 10:44:03 lodse has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1146 2013-04-05 10:46:08 <Wayno> hmm do a -rescan
1147 2013-04-05 10:46:13 <Wayno> balace 25 >.>
1148 2013-04-05 10:46:18 <Wayno> wat other commands are there
1149 2013-04-05 10:46:50 <sydna> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Original_Bitcoin_client/API_Calls_list
1150 2013-04-05 10:47:31 <Wayno> funny enough thats the api list
1151 2013-04-05 10:47:38 <Wayno> and -rescan isnt on there
1152 2013-04-05 10:48:52 <sipa> it's not an API call
1153 2013-04-05 10:48:57 <sipa> it's a command-line flag
1154 2013-04-05 10:49:10 * sydna slinks away
1155 2013-04-05 10:51:43 one_zero has quit ()
1156 2013-04-05 10:52:56 yano has quit (Ping timeout: 620 seconds)
1157 2013-04-05 10:57:38 slothbag has joined
1158 2013-04-05 10:58:23 jdnavarro_ has joined
1159 2013-04-05 11:00:07 lodse has joined
1160 2013-04-05 11:01:01 jdnavarro has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1161 2013-04-05 11:04:38 Dyaheon has quit ()
1162 2013-04-05 11:06:33 Dyaheon has joined
1163 2013-04-05 11:07:54 pumpkin has joined
1164 2013-04-05 11:08:03 copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1165 2013-04-05 11:09:03 pumpkin is now known as copumpkin
1166 2013-04-05 11:10:45 Reinz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1167 2013-04-05 11:10:46 Graet has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1168 2013-04-05 11:12:56 Casimir1904 has joined
1169 2013-04-05 11:13:51 [7] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1170 2013-04-05 11:14:12 TheSeven has joined
1171 2013-04-05 11:15:39 Vtester has joined
1172 2013-04-05 11:16:41 Vtester has quit (Client Quit)
1173 2013-04-05 11:16:50 mercerist has joined
1174 2013-04-05 11:17:28 HM has joined
1175 2013-04-05 11:19:31 merceris_ has joined
1176 2013-04-05 11:20:23 BTCOxygen has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1177 2013-04-05 11:20:25 BTCOxygen has joined
1178 2013-04-05 11:21:25 mercerist has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1179 2013-04-05 11:21:59 Phraust has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1180 2013-04-05 11:24:15 merceris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1181 2013-04-05 11:26:27 Phraust has joined
1182 2013-04-05 11:30:21 Scrat_n has joined
1183 2013-04-05 11:30:21 Scrat is now known as Guest64799
1184 2013-04-05 11:30:29 Scrat_n is now known as Scrat
1185 2013-04-05 11:32:04 Guest64799 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1186 2013-04-05 11:32:06 mercerist has joined
1187 2013-04-05 11:33:34 cultav1x has joined
1188 2013-04-05 11:33:46 jaequery has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1189 2013-04-05 11:36:28 ralphtheninja has joined
1190 2013-04-05 11:41:07 wrabbit has joined
1191 2013-04-05 11:41:08 kalleboo_ is now known as kalleboo_|away
1192 2013-04-05 11:42:16 XertroV has joined
1193 2013-04-05 11:42:17 mercerist has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1194 2013-04-05 11:42:40 mercerist has joined
1195 2013-04-05 11:42:57 mercerist has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1196 2013-04-05 11:44:46 Davincij15 has joined
1197 2013-04-05 11:46:47 XertroV has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1198 2013-04-05 11:47:13 Belkaar has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1199 2013-04-05 11:48:08 Belkaar has joined
1200 2013-04-05 11:50:29 XertroV has joined
1201 2013-04-05 11:51:10 mughat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1202 2013-04-05 11:51:15 CaptainBlaze has quit (Quit: CaptainBlaze)
1203 2013-04-05 11:51:37 mughat has joined
1204 2013-04-05 11:51:45 BTCOxygen has quit (1!~BTCOxygen@unaffiliated/btcoxygen|Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1205 2013-04-05 11:52:24 BTCOxygen has joined
1206 2013-04-05 11:54:04 a_meteorite has joined
1207 2013-04-05 11:54:33 testnet has joined
1208 2013-04-05 11:55:42 <testnet> how is it possible to send with json rpc more transaktions at one time to save fees?
1209 2013-04-05 11:56:36 <a_meteorite> testnet: sendmany?
1210 2013-04-05 11:56:42 rdymac has joined
1211 2013-04-05 11:57:11 kalleboo_ is now known as away!~kalleboo@i118-18-140-128.s11.a046.ap.plala.or.jp|kalleboo_
1212 2013-04-05 11:57:26 <testnet> thy
1213 2013-04-05 11:57:27 testnet has left ()
1214 2013-04-05 11:58:36 daybyter has joined
1215 2013-04-05 12:01:05 thedrs has joined
1216 2013-04-05 12:01:36 Phraust has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1217 2013-04-05 12:02:23 thedrs1 has joined
1218 2013-04-05 12:02:24 thedrs has quit (Client Quit)
1219 2013-04-05 12:04:15 abrkn\ has joined
1220 2013-04-05 12:04:48 <thedrs1> good morning good people - a small Q if you have the time ... I am using the qt bitcoin client - i wanted to try to use testnet to see if i can mine and manage to solve a block ... i saw in the help->debug a check box for 'on testnet'. If i check this box will it affect my real block chain ? or is the client buit to work dual mode ?
1221 2013-04-05 12:05:41 <abrkn\> i'm struggling with performance issues in my wallet implementation. i have a database of all my deposit addresses (theyre cold, so not in my wallet) and i go through every block and every tx to see if any of my addresses received anything. however, i'm struggling with performance issues from doing so many getblock, getrawtx, decoderawtx calls. is there another way to do this?
1222 2013-04-05 12:07:19 <abrkn\> i could use listsinceblock, but then i'd need to have the addresses in my wallet and as i understand bitcoind does not support having an address without a private key
1223 2013-04-05 12:07:42 Wayno has left ()
1224 2013-04-05 12:07:49 Phraust has joined
1225 2013-04-05 12:07:49 <InsuDra> abrkn look at armory, they parse the block chain files to do this in a timely fashion
1226 2013-04-05 12:08:19 <sydna> abrkn\: you could probably use a callback service, blockchain.info will ping a URL if they see a TX on an address
1227 2013-04-05 12:08:32 <abrkn\> InsuDra: switching to armory at this point would force me to change -a lot- :|
1228 2013-04-05 12:08:56 <abrkn\> i wanted to use blockchain.info, but the rpc compat api is buggy
1229 2013-04-05 12:09:09 <sydna> abrkn\: alternativly, a listening script like bitcoin-sniffer will let you parse unconfirmed TX as they are broadcast
1230 2013-04-05 12:09:16 <abrkn\> not even valid json and they wont respond to my tickets
1231 2013-04-05 12:09:56 <sydna> I've modified bitcoin-sniffer to do things in the past, just set it up to respond to certain outputs
1232 2013-04-05 12:10:09 <sydna> probably not optimal though
1233 2013-04-05 12:10:32 <CodeShark> I have a better solution - feel free to use it: https://github.com/CodeShark/CoinClasses/blob/master/examples/listener2/listener2.cpp
1234 2013-04-05 12:10:47 <abrkn\> would be so much nicer if i could use blockchain.info and not have to use txindex=1
1235 2013-04-05 12:11:22 <sydna> CodeShark: that's almost identical to bitcoin-sniffer ;)
1236 2013-04-05 12:11:46 <sydna> https://github.com/sebicas/bitcoin-sniffer/blob/master/sniffer.py
1237 2013-04-05 12:11:52 <abrkn\> right now im stuck 3000 blocks behind and all these api calls have slowed me down to one block per minute
1238 2013-04-05 12:12:40 <sydna> abrkn\: just try bitcoin-sniffer, it's probably all you need. it's all /I/ needed.
1239 2013-04-05 12:12:42 kalleboo_ is now known as kalleboo_|away
1240 2013-04-05 12:12:48 <CodeShark> bitcoin-sniffer is just a modified version of jgarzik's thing
1241 2013-04-05 12:13:01 * sydna shrugs
1242 2013-04-05 12:13:04 <abrkn\> but how's it help if you stop your program and need to catch up?
1243 2013-04-05 12:13:21 <sydna> I suppose then you need to go back to grinding it slowly
1244 2013-04-05 12:13:36 <abrkn\> aye, that's what im doing now :(
1245 2013-04-05 12:13:39 <CodeShark> keep track of the last seen block
1246 2013-04-05 12:13:47 <sydna> I don't design fallbacks, it's a zen sort of thing
1247 2013-04-05 12:13:48 <CodeShark> then when you start again, see if there's a more recent block
1248 2013-04-05 12:13:49 <abrkn\> two days at this speed, disgusting.. :(
1249 2013-04-05 12:13:54 <CodeShark> and ask for all the more recent blocks
1250 2013-04-05 12:14:17 <sydna> abrkn\: if you have 35GB of disk space free, Abe will parse the entire thing into a Postgres / MySQL database
1251 2013-04-05 12:14:28 <CodeShark> you can also ask for a peer's mempool
1252 2013-04-05 12:14:35 <CodeShark> no need to store the whole thing in an SQL database
1253 2013-04-05 12:14:44 <abrkn\> sysdna: i promised myself i would not store the entire chain in sql, but at this point i regret it
1254 2013-04-05 12:14:52 <CodeShark> I've done it both ways
1255 2013-04-05 12:14:58 kalleboo_ is now known as away!~kalleboo@i118-18-140-128.s11.a046.ap.plala.or.jp|kalleboo_
1256 2013-04-05 12:14:59 <InsuDra> again look at armory code, might be faster to just parse the files your self (or setup a service that does it on request)
1257 2013-04-05 12:15:09 <sydna> with Abe at least there's a lot of indexs to rely on
1258 2013-04-05 12:15:14 <CodeShark> the SQL database is nice for historical queries and analysis tools - but totally unnecessary for processing received transactions
1259 2013-04-05 12:15:25 <sydna> of course
1260 2013-04-05 12:15:30 <sydna> sledgehammer to kill a fly
1261 2013-04-05 12:15:43 <CodeShark> parsing the block chain files is the worst solution of all :p
1262 2013-04-05 12:15:43 <abrkn\> again, if blockchain would fix their shit... anyone care to try their getblock?
1263 2013-04-05 12:16:18 <CodeShark> relying on blockchain.info for this stuff is silly if you intend to run a real business
1264 2013-04-05 12:16:27 <sydna> ^
1265 2013-04-05 12:16:30 <CodeShark> if you're just a hobbyist, I suppose it's ok
1266 2013-04-05 12:16:39 <sydna> not even for that, have you seen their downtime?
1267 2013-04-05 12:17:09 <alaricsp> It would be nice if bitcoind exposed whatever you need via its API
1268 2013-04-05 12:17:16 <sydna> http://status.blockchain.info/500250/2013/03
1269 2013-04-05 12:17:26 <CodeShark> just use a p2p listener, store the last seen block, and ask for mempool + all more recent blocks on startup
1270 2013-04-05 12:17:34 <sydna> 97% uptime is atrocious
1271 2013-04-05 12:17:45 <CodeShark> and only use getrawtransaction for confirmation counts
1272 2013-04-05 12:17:58 <alaricsp> Some kind of "find transactions involving addresses (X,Y,Z) since BLOCK" would be ideal here
1273 2013-04-05 12:18:00 <CodeShark> simple solution that works wonderfully for me
1274 2013-04-05 12:18:23 <CodeShark> I mean store the last seen block hash + height, of course
1275 2013-04-05 12:18:36 <CodeShark> not the whole thing
1276 2013-04-05 12:18:40 <alaricsp> Yeah, my "BLOCK" in my query is meant to be a hash+height
1277 2013-04-05 12:18:54 * alaricsp ponders how it would handle chain forks
1278 2013-04-05 12:19:04 mercerist has joined
1279 2013-04-05 12:19:15 <CodeShark> you don't really need to maintain your own block tree if you use bitcoind for confirmation counts
1280 2013-04-05 12:19:30 discrete has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1281 2013-04-05 12:19:47 <CodeShark> you only need to ask for confirmation counts for transactions you've already filtered, of course
1282 2013-04-05 12:19:56 abrkn\ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1283 2013-04-05 12:20:19 <alaricsp> I suppose queries involving "since" a given block that turns out to be on a dead fork would be spotted when the chain since that block is followed and the tip of it is not the current best block, so the API would need to return "Here's your transactions, oh and that chain is dead, start again with this BLOCK which is the divergence point between that and the best chain"
1284 2013-04-05 12:20:24 <alaricsp> Hrm, fiddly edge cases...
1285 2013-04-05 12:20:48 <CodeShark> if the confirmation count has changed, you can receive a notification of that
1286 2013-04-05 12:21:00 <CodeShark> you don't really care as a merchant if there was a fork but the confirmation count remains the same
1287 2013-04-05 12:21:06 <CodeShark> regardless of fork
1288 2013-04-05 12:21:12 <CodeShark> I mean, regardless of branch
1289 2013-04-05 12:21:18 <alaricsp> Yes
1290 2013-04-05 12:21:33 <alaricsp> I was just thinking about a transaction that only ever exists on some fork
1291 2013-04-05 12:21:56 <CodeShark> then if it ends up on an abandoned branch, the confirmation count goes to zero
1292 2013-04-05 12:22:03 <CodeShark> and you can receive a notificatino
1293 2013-04-05 12:22:07 <CodeShark> *notification
1294 2013-04-05 12:22:27 <CodeShark> set it to notify you until it receives, say, 12 confirmations
1295 2013-04-05 12:22:42 <CodeShark> each time the confirmation count changes
1296 2013-04-05 12:22:43 <alaricsp> Hmmm, good point
1297 2013-04-05 12:23:53 <CodeShark> this is what I do and it works wonderfully for me
1298 2013-04-05 12:24:01 <CodeShark> using that listener that I put on github
1299 2013-04-05 12:24:30 <CodeShark> I attach a filter to that listener and, say, a websocket server
1300 2013-04-05 12:24:39 <CodeShark> so then I can connect another process and subscribe to alerts
1301 2013-04-05 12:26:04 <CodeShark> or just feed alerts directly to a web browser
1302 2013-04-05 12:26:59 <CodeShark> super easy on network and CPU :)
1303 2013-04-05 12:27:29 <CodeShark> and each time the process is restarted, it asks for any more recent blocks as well as current mempool
1304 2013-04-05 12:27:52 <CodeShark> and updates the confirmation count on all the transactions it is tracking
1305 2013-04-05 12:28:44 fposdkgs has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1306 2013-04-05 12:29:00 viperhr has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1307 2013-04-05 12:29:07 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1308 2013-04-05 12:31:11 BlackPrapor has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
1309 2013-04-05 12:31:41 TradeFortress has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1310 2013-04-05 12:32:00 testnode9 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1311 2013-04-05 12:32:27 testnode9 has joined
1312 2013-04-05 12:33:19 cultav1x has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1313 2013-04-05 12:35:28 Transisto has joined
1314 2013-04-05 12:35:28 Transisto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1315 2013-04-05 12:37:56 Transisto has joined
1316 2013-04-05 12:39:55 datagutt has joined
1317 2013-04-05 12:40:18 rmarko has joined
1318 2013-04-05 12:40:18 kalleboo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1319 2013-04-05 12:40:47 lnostdal has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1320 2013-04-05 12:41:57 lnostdal has joined
1321 2013-04-05 12:45:25 Davincij has joined
1322 2013-04-05 12:45:55 Davincij15 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1323 2013-04-05 12:46:25 jez0990 has joined
1324 2013-04-05 12:46:25 mercerist has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1325 2013-04-05 12:46:58 mercerist has joined
1326 2013-04-05 12:47:20 Bohren has joined
1327 2013-04-05 12:49:31 manoliyou is now known as basylib
1328 2013-04-05 12:50:03 basylib is now known as Guest49926
1329 2013-04-05 12:50:14 Guest49926 is now known as abueesp
1330 2013-04-05 12:50:23 sanchaz has joined
1331 2013-04-05 12:50:40 TriNitroToluene has joined
1332 2013-04-05 12:50:43 mercerist has quit (Client Quit)
1333 2013-04-05 12:50:44 abueesp is now known as Guest88483
1334 2013-04-05 12:51:10 Guest88483 is now known as manoliyou
1335 2013-04-05 12:51:35 Phraust has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1336 2013-04-05 12:51:57 qeb has joined
1337 2013-04-05 12:52:39 ovidiusoft has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1338 2013-04-05 12:53:50 banghouse has joined
1339 2013-04-05 12:54:03 ovidiusoft has joined
1340 2013-04-05 12:54:13 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
1341 2013-04-05 12:54:21 [7] has joined
1342 2013-04-05 12:56:32 fiatbubble has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1343 2013-04-05 12:56:57 sipa has quit (Quit: leaving)
1344 2013-04-05 12:58:03 fanquake has joined
1345 2013-04-05 12:58:15 thedrs1 has left ()
1346 2013-04-05 12:58:52 Phraust has joined
1347 2013-04-05 12:58:53 Phraust has quit (Changing host)
1348 2013-04-05 12:58:53 Phraust has joined
1349 2013-04-05 13:01:27 denisx has joined
1350 2013-04-05 13:02:31 o2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1351 2013-04-05 13:02:41 o2 has joined
1352 2013-04-05 13:07:10 mercerist has joined
1353 2013-04-05 13:07:12 Bohren has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1354 2013-04-05 13:07:21 unas has joined
1355 2013-04-05 13:08:19 <unas> i try to build bitcoin-qt on mac. Build bitcoind from the commandlike works (make makefile.osx), but i QT studio i get: 'QMenu' file not found.. any ideas?
1356 2013-04-05 13:08:29 <sydna> unas: use Homebrew
1357 2013-04-05 13:08:39 <sydna> it has a working bitcoind recipe
1358 2013-04-05 13:08:40 <unas> sydna im on port.
1359 2013-04-05 13:08:48 <unas> i'd like to say with port. :)
1360 2013-04-05 13:08:51 manoliyou is now known as nobodyme
1361 2013-04-05 13:08:58 nobodyme has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
1362 2013-04-05 13:09:00 <sydna> ah, someone else will be able to help then I guess
1363 2013-04-05 13:09:11 * sydna pats homebrew
1364 2013-04-05 13:09:16 <fanquake> I'm actually trying the same thing right now
1365 2013-04-05 13:09:20 <unas> sydna, i have bitcoin client. I just want to build from the sources to do some changes
1366 2013-04-05 13:09:23 <fanquake> getting the same issue
1367 2013-04-05 13:09:51 MAN0liYOU has joined
1368 2013-04-05 13:10:35 <unas> strange...
1369 2013-04-05 13:11:35 <fanquake> Are you getting the error in macdockiconhandler?
1370 2013-04-05 13:12:33 gonffen has quit (Changing host)
1371 2013-04-05 13:12:34 gonffen has joined
1372 2013-04-05 13:14:01 rdymac has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1373 2013-04-05 13:14:11 johnsoft1 has joined
1374 2013-04-05 13:14:23 Casimir1904 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1375 2013-04-05 13:15:01 qeb has quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
1376 2013-04-05 13:15:58 normanrichards has joined
1377 2013-04-05 13:16:42 johnsoft has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1378 2013-04-05 13:17:10 rdymac has joined
1379 2013-04-05 13:17:31 Casimir1904 has joined
1380 2013-04-05 13:18:19 saulimus has quit (Quit: saulimus)
1381 2013-04-05 13:18:34 <unas> fanquake no? just the QMenu issue
1382 2013-04-05 13:18:40 <unas> it's probably because i installed QT5
1383 2013-04-05 13:18:47 <unas> maybe have to use QT4.8
1384 2013-04-05 13:19:03 <unas> i'll try now
1385 2013-04-05 13:19:09 Prattler has joined
1386 2013-04-05 13:22:48 Aziz- has joined
1387 2013-04-05 13:24:51 ashod has joined
1388 2013-04-05 13:25:18 CaptainBlaze has joined
1389 2013-04-05 13:26:50 btcven has joined
1390 2013-04-05 13:27:15 rdymac has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1391 2013-04-05 13:27:30 <ashod> hello everyone
1392 2013-04-05 13:27:33 btcven is now known as rdymac
1393 2013-04-05 13:27:39 alnkpa2 has joined
1394 2013-04-05 13:27:51 TriNitroToluene has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1395 2013-04-05 13:28:13 ashod has quit (Client Quit)
1396 2013-04-05 13:28:16 MSH1UP has joined
1397 2013-04-05 13:28:19 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1398 2013-04-05 13:28:22 ashod has joined
1399 2013-04-05 13:28:53 <alnkpa2> hey guys, im using armory and transferred 4 h ago from one wallet to another one with tx fees. still, i dont have any confirmations yet
1400 2013-04-05 13:29:09 <sydna> can you see the TX on blockchain.info?
1401 2013-04-05 13:29:13 <alnkpa2> nope
1402 2013-04-05 13:29:14 avangeek has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1403 2013-04-05 13:29:25 <sydna> then chances are it never got broadcast
1404 2013-04-05 13:29:38 <alnkpa2> hmm, and now?
1405 2013-04-05 13:29:45 * sydna shrugs
1406 2013-04-05 13:29:56 <sydna> someone else here is better equipped to answer
1407 2013-04-05 13:30:34 <alnkpa2> alright
1408 2013-04-05 13:31:26 ovidiusoft has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1409 2013-04-05 13:32:02 slothbag has quit (Quit: I quit!)
1410 2013-04-05 13:32:44 ovidiusoft has joined
1411 2013-04-05 13:33:32 <skinnkavaj> http://i.imgur.com/83W3Q2U.png
1412 2013-04-05 13:33:36 <skinnkavaj> STOP BTC GUILD!
1413 2013-04-05 13:33:37 <skinnkavaj> Omg
1414 2013-04-05 13:34:25 ninchuu has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1415 2013-04-05 13:37:00 ioi has joined
1416 2013-04-05 13:37:00 Anduck has joined
1417 2013-04-05 13:37:00 Anduck has quit (Changing host)
1418 2013-04-05 13:37:00 Anduck has joined
1419 2013-04-05 13:39:14 wrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1420 2013-04-05 13:39:25 Phraust has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1421 2013-04-05 13:39:47 wrabbit has joined
1422 2013-04-05 13:40:24 Diablo-D3 has joined
1423 2013-04-05 13:42:49 ioi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1424 2013-04-05 13:42:54 t7 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1425 2013-04-05 13:43:08 Guest56305 has joined
1426 2013-04-05 13:44:36 qeb has joined
1427 2013-04-05 13:45:40 agricocb has joined
1428 2013-04-05 13:46:31 ioi has joined
1429 2013-04-05 13:46:54 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1430 2013-04-05 13:47:29 knotwork has joined
1431 2013-04-05 13:48:01 czaanja has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1432 2013-04-05 13:48:10 rmarko has quit (Excess Flood)
1433 2013-04-05 13:50:27 <alnkpa2> hey guys, im using armory and transferred 4 h ago from one wallet to another one with tx fees. still, i dont have any confirmations yet
1434 2013-04-05 13:51:30 ioi has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
1435 2013-04-05 13:51:36 ioi has joined
1436 2013-04-05 13:54:26 whiterabbit has joined
1437 2013-04-05 13:55:40 <petertodd> alnkpa2: Try restarting armory. For me at least it has a bug where confirmations don't show up within armory itself.
1438 2013-04-05 13:56:42 <alnkpa2> petertodd: already restarted armory and bitcoin-qt
1439 2013-04-05 13:56:47 wrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1440 2013-04-05 13:56:48 whiterabbit is now known as wrabbit
1441 2013-04-05 13:57:25 <petertodd> alnkpa2: Probably just needed a higher fee to begin with to me faster. Not much you can do now.
1442 2013-04-05 13:57:41 <petertodd> We really do need tx replacement so you can adjust fees after the fact...
1443 2013-04-05 13:58:13 <alnkpa2> well, i thought the standard fee was ... well standard
1444 2013-04-05 13:58:39 normanrichards has quit ()
1445 2013-04-05 13:59:01 <petertodd> Fees are a bidding process pretty much. You're trying to buy a limited resource.
1446 2013-04-05 13:59:18 <alnkpa2> confirmations?
1447 2013-04-05 13:59:44 dafuq has joined
1448 2013-04-05 13:59:45 <petertodd> No, blockchain space.
1449 2013-04-05 14:00:24 qeb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1450 2013-04-05 14:00:45 <alnkpa2> ok, so the tx can only be confirmed if already incorporated in a block?
1451 2013-04-05 14:01:35 <petertodd> No, confirmation means putting it in a block. But anyway this is a #bitcoin topic, not #bitcoin-dev
1452 2013-04-05 14:01:52 <alnkpa2> ok
1453 2013-04-05 14:01:56 <alnkpa2> sry
1454 2013-04-05 14:02:51 <alnkpa2> a last question: what fee should I've used
1455 2013-04-05 14:03:56 <sydna> 0.0005
1456 2013-04-05 14:04:03 mercerist has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1457 2013-04-05 14:04:04 <sydna> 0.001 if you feel generous
1458 2013-04-05 14:04:08 <alnkpa2> well, i did
1459 2013-04-05 14:04:11 <sydna> 13.37 if you feel ridiculous
1460 2013-04-05 14:04:15 <alnkpa2> xD
1461 2013-04-05 14:04:31 eklass has joined
1462 2013-04-05 14:04:32 <sydna> highest fee recorded was like 200BTC
1463 2013-04-05 14:04:40 <sydna> they must have been hitting the bath salts
1464 2013-04-05 14:04:49 <alnkpa2> :D
1465 2013-04-05 14:05:06 Prattler has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
1466 2013-04-05 14:05:15 t7 has joined
1467 2013-04-05 14:06:22 <alnkpa2> so petertodd, i actually used the right fee and still haven't gotten any confirmation and the tx isn't on blockchain.info
1468 2013-04-05 14:07:00 <petertodd> hmm... that could be something else then
1469 2013-04-05 14:07:03 <petertodd> msg me the tx hash
1470 2013-04-05 14:10:52 ioi has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1471 2013-04-05 14:12:27 t7 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1472 2013-04-05 14:13:07 rdymac has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1473 2013-04-05 14:14:56 Aziz- has quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
1474 2013-04-05 14:17:09 graingert has joined
1475 2013-04-05 14:17:09 graingert has quit (Changing host)
1476 2013-04-05 14:17:09 graingert has joined
1477 2013-04-05 14:17:13 graingert has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1478 2013-04-05 14:17:39 graingert has joined
1479 2013-04-05 14:17:39 graingert has quit (Changing host)
1480 2013-04-05 14:17:39 graingert has joined
1481 2013-04-05 14:18:47 t7 has joined
1482 2013-04-05 14:23:41 rdymac has joined
1483 2013-04-05 14:23:57 <kermit_> http://www.mail-archive.com/security-discuss@mail.opensolaris.org/msg01848.html
1484 2013-04-05 14:24:15 <kermit_> sh256 assembler re-write (13 march) no significant improvements
1485 2013-04-05 14:24:19 <kermit_> openssl
1486 2013-04-05 14:25:43 t7 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1487 2013-04-05 14:26:30 <kermit_> sha256 is an exteemly serial algorithem, no parallelisation possible like AES
1488 2013-04-05 14:28:47 ielo has joined
1489 2013-04-05 14:30:32 jackass_ has joined
1490 2013-04-05 14:30:47 kermit_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1491 2013-04-05 14:30:57 <sydna> can be implemented well in hardware though, which is nice
1492 2013-04-05 14:32:19 _kermit has joined
1493 2013-04-05 14:32:23 Guest56305 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1494 2013-04-05 14:32:24 <_kermit> wow
1495 2013-04-05 14:32:27 <_kermit> node reset
1496 2013-04-05 14:33:13 Phrausted has joined
1497 2013-04-05 14:33:14 Phrausted has quit (Changing host)
1498 2013-04-05 14:33:14 Phrausted has joined
1499 2013-04-05 14:35:23 MSH1UP has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1500 2013-04-05 14:35:37 gfinn has joined
1501 2013-04-05 14:35:52 catcow has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1502 2013-04-05 14:36:25 catcow has joined
1503 2013-04-05 14:36:53 systemParanoid has joined
1504 2013-04-05 14:37:38 MiningBuddy has joined
1505 2013-04-05 14:37:38 MiningBuddy has quit (Changing host)
1506 2013-04-05 14:37:38 MiningBuddy has joined
1507 2013-04-05 14:37:48 mercerist has joined
1508 2013-04-05 14:38:00 InsuDra has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1509 2013-04-05 14:38:08 cc_8 has joined
1510 2013-04-05 14:38:08 cc_8 is now known as alphaguru
1511 2013-04-05 14:39:08 Phrausted is now known as Phraust
1512 2013-04-05 14:39:57 m0mchil has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1513 2013-04-05 14:40:11 da2ce7 has joined
1514 2013-04-05 14:40:53 viperhr has joined
1515 2013-04-05 14:42:55 SwedFTP has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1516 2013-04-05 14:43:21 HM has quit ()
1517 2013-04-05 14:46:32 ThomasV has joined
1518 2013-04-05 14:48:02 HM has joined
1519 2013-04-05 14:48:21 kalleboo_ has joined
1520 2013-04-05 14:50:07 keymone has joined
1521 2013-04-05 14:51:38 defunctzombie_zz is now known as defunctzombie
1522 2013-04-05 14:56:16 Prattler has joined
1523 2013-04-05 14:57:26 Scrat is now known as Scrat_c
1524 2013-04-05 14:57:31 Scrat_c is now known as Scrat
1525 2013-04-05 15:01:46 jdnavarro_ is now known as jdnavarro
1526 2013-04-05 15:04:28 midnightmagic has joined
1527 2013-04-05 15:05:47 john5223 has joined
1528 2013-04-05 15:08:21 grau_ has joined
1529 2013-04-05 15:08:42 yulu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1530 2013-04-05 15:10:19 grau has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1531 2013-04-05 15:11:22 duckybsd has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1532 2013-04-05 15:11:57 mercerist has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1533 2013-04-05 15:12:02 JWU42 has joined
1534 2013-04-05 15:13:21 <cads> Hey guys, I was wondering if it would be very difficult to create a bitcoin-like currency compiler. This would be a program that takes a hash algorithm and a public key encryption algo, and then outputs a fully working BTC-like client
1535 2013-04-05 15:13:24 jaequery has joined
1536 2013-04-05 15:13:47 <cads> full with mining capabilities and ready to form its own currency
1537 2013-04-05 15:14:18 Diablo-D3 has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1538 2013-04-05 15:15:09 <iwilcox> Heh, your questions tickle me, cads :)
1539 2013-04-05 15:19:23 Insu has joined
1540 2013-04-05 15:20:08 <cads> iwilcox: I did frame that a bit poorly, neh?
1541 2013-04-05 15:22:15 <cads> iwilcox: I'm so glad that I should tickle you, but suddenly I'm not expecting any kind of constructive response without dragging it out of you so for today, I will do something different.
1542 2013-04-05 15:22:32 ovidiusoft has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1543 2013-04-05 15:22:50 <iwilcox> I'm tickled by why you'd want to in the first place.
1544 2013-04-05 15:23:10 <iwilcox> But yeah, sorry, I'm chatting in several places at once and not good at multi-tasking.
1545 2013-04-05 15:24:29 <gonffen> why would it be hard cads ? as long as you've written the coind and minerd in a modular fashion :P
1546 2013-04-05 15:24:52 <cads> iwilcox: mostly to do it. It would be the first cryptocurrency compiler.
1547 2013-04-05 15:25:00 <cads> And not the last, I think.
1548 2013-04-05 15:25:27 HM has quit ()
1549 2013-04-05 15:25:34 <iwilcox> I can't imagine many people having the time to do that for fun.
1550 2013-04-05 15:26:20 grau_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1551 2013-04-05 15:27:15 * [7] fails to wrap his head around all the endianness mess involved with getwork and stratum
1552 2013-04-05 15:27:37 mughat_2 has joined
1553 2013-04-05 15:28:32 BTCOxygen is now known as 1!~BTCOxygen@unaffiliated/btcoxygen|BTCOxygen
1554 2013-04-05 15:28:48 <cads> iwilcox: I'll rephrase the question.
1555 2013-04-05 15:30:01 <cads> Can you guys help me brainstorm quick paths to a fully parameterized btc-like currency compiler?
1556 2013-04-05 15:30:45 john5223 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1557 2013-04-05 15:30:59 * [7] is totally confused now
1558 2013-04-05 15:31:04 mughat has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1559 2013-04-05 15:31:30 <cads> Where by "currency compiler", I mean a program that takes at its input a suitable hash and public key crypto, along with some relatively simple configurations, and puts out a (possibly mathematically verified) implementation of a cryptocurrency based in the chosen algorithms.
1560 2013-04-05 15:32:20 sipa1024 has joined
1561 2013-04-05 15:32:25 <[7]> is the prevhash really stored in word-reversed big-endian bit order in the block header?
1562 2013-04-05 15:32:25 sipa1024 is now known as sipa
1563 2013-04-05 15:32:44 sipa has quit (Changing host)
1564 2013-04-05 15:32:44 sipa has joined
1565 2013-04-05 15:32:52 <cads> iwilcox: lets table the possibility of mathematically verified code.
1566 2013-04-05 15:33:14 <[7]> that seems totally backwards, both from a sanity ("everything is big endian on network") and implementation ("all cpus are little endian") point of view
1567 2013-04-05 15:33:29 BenderCoin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1568 2013-04-05 15:33:31 MC-Droid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1569 2013-04-05 15:33:45 <pjorrit_> best way to test for bugs
1570 2013-04-05 15:33:48 <iwilcox> cads: Because it wasn't hard enough already :)
1571 2013-04-05 15:34:10 <lianj> [7]: :P
1572 2013-04-05 15:34:36 <cads> iwilcox: yeah, lets ignore the verification
1573 2013-04-05 15:34:51 <cads> that's magical expensive faerie dust
1574 2013-04-05 15:35:29 BenderCoin has joined
1575 2013-04-05 15:35:43 <cads> iwilcox: I'll leave you be till you're less occupied
1576 2013-04-05 15:35:45 grau has joined
1577 2013-04-05 15:35:47 polrpaul has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1578 2013-04-05 15:36:12 monad7 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1579 2013-04-05 15:36:17 <cads> if you want to give a neutral assessment in public or PM, I'd be happy to hear it.
1580 2013-04-05 15:36:37 <iwilcox> I think your bigger problem is that I'm not qualified and not worth waiting for, but I'm sure a real dev will pick up your question.
1581 2013-04-05 15:37:09 <sipa> what is the question?
1582 2013-04-05 15:37:50 _flow_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1583 2013-04-05 15:37:53 <cads> sipa: the idea of a parameterized bitcoin-like client/miner generator came up in -blah.
1584 2013-04-05 15:38:08 <sipa> parametrized over what?
1585 2013-04-05 15:38:37 <cads> sipa: we were talking about formally verifying bitcoin code, and it seemed like we may as well parameterize over has and public key crypto techs.
1586 2013-04-05 15:39:06 <cads> So long as they were themselves verified implementations and were suitable for the blockchain algorithm
1587 2013-04-05 15:39:32 HM2 has joined
1588 2013-04-05 15:39:49 canooon has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1589 2013-04-05 15:39:49 canoon has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1590 2013-04-05 15:39:56 HM2 has quit (Client Quit)
1591 2013-04-05 15:40:02 <cads> s/over has/over hash
1592 2013-04-05 15:40:40 <cads> sipa: it's an interesting application of a futamura-like transform. We'd be making the first currency compiler.
1593 2013-04-05 15:40:56 <sipa> ha!
1594 2013-04-05 15:41:11 qeb has joined
1595 2013-04-05 15:41:11 <cads> I know, right!
1596 2013-04-05 15:41:27 <cads> It made me laugh just at how simple it was.
1597 2013-04-05 15:41:47 LainZ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1598 2013-04-05 15:42:02 <cads> At least conceptually!
1599 2013-04-05 15:42:20 <cads> It's the kind of think my inner haskell nerd _loves_ to see.
1600 2013-04-05 15:42:34 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1601 2013-04-05 15:43:43 * iwilcox slaps cads' inner haskell nerd
1602 2013-04-05 15:45:24 john5223 has joined
1603 2013-04-05 15:45:51 someonesomewhere has joined
1604 2013-04-05 15:46:21 robocoin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1605 2013-04-05 15:48:26 drizztbsd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1606 2013-04-05 15:49:55 qeb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1607 2013-04-05 15:50:54 Anduck has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1608 2013-04-05 15:51:34 CaptainBlaze has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1609 2013-04-05 15:51:59 <_kermit> gcc
1610 2013-04-05 15:52:05 <_kermit> hnu coin compiler
1611 2013-04-05 15:52:08 <_kermit> gnu*
1612 2013-04-05 15:52:09 <_kermit> lol
1613 2013-04-05 15:52:48 tkolsto has joined
1614 2013-04-05 15:53:19 drizztbsd has joined
1615 2013-04-05 15:53:19 drizztbsd has quit (Changing host)
1616 2013-04-05 15:53:19 drizztbsd has joined
1617 2013-04-05 15:54:26 robocoin has joined
1618 2013-04-05 15:55:14 Anduck has joined
1619 2013-04-05 15:55:14 Anduck has quit (Changing host)
1620 2013-04-05 15:55:14 Anduck has joined
1621 2013-04-05 15:57:39 <jouke> Is there a limit on how many addresses I can use with sendmany?
1622 2013-04-05 15:58:08 owowo has joined
1623 2013-04-05 15:58:27 rdymac has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1624 2013-04-05 15:58:41 <jouke> I am trying to make a transaction with 36 outputs, but it fails silently.
1625 2013-04-05 15:59:00 <jouke> Can it be because I set a fixed txfee?
1626 2013-04-05 15:59:47 sydna has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1627 2013-04-05 16:02:45 bernie has left ("+++ATH0")
1628 2013-04-05 16:03:23 ColinT has joined
1629 2013-04-05 16:03:25 Cache_Money has joined
1630 2013-04-05 16:03:57 XertroV has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1631 2013-04-05 16:04:15 ashod has left ()
1632 2013-04-05 16:04:39 ashod has joined
1633 2013-04-05 16:04:45 ashod has left ()
1634 2013-04-05 16:05:53 kalleboo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1635 2013-04-05 16:06:07 kalleboo_ has joined
1636 2013-04-05 16:08:48 fanquake has left ()
1637 2013-04-05 16:09:05 GMP has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1638 2013-04-05 16:09:11 banghouse is now known as itsfriday
1639 2013-04-05 16:09:23 sacredch1o has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1640 2013-04-05 16:09:52 stretchwarren has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1641 2013-04-05 16:11:34 sacredchao has joined
1642 2013-04-05 16:12:15 hsmithsN7_ has joined
1643 2013-04-05 16:13:07 stretchwarren has joined
1644 2013-04-05 16:16:50 hsmithsN7_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1645 2013-04-05 16:17:45 valparaiso is now known as valparaiso_afk
1646 2013-04-05 16:19:50 ltrottier has joined
1647 2013-04-05 16:20:04 Phraust has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1648 2013-04-05 16:20:04 agricocb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1649 2013-04-05 16:20:52 debiantoruser has joined
1650 2013-04-05 16:21:41 agricocb has joined
1651 2013-04-05 16:22:04 Cache_Money has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1652 2013-04-05 16:24:43 FredEE has joined
1653 2013-04-05 16:25:28 OPrime has quit (Quit: OPrime)
1654 2013-04-05 16:26:16 MobGod has joined
1655 2013-04-05 16:26:16 MobGod has quit (Changing host)
1656 2013-04-05 16:26:16 MobGod has joined
1657 2013-04-05 16:26:44 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
1658 2013-04-05 16:26:51 skeledrew has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1659 2013-04-05 16:26:56 skeledrew1 has joined
1660 2013-04-05 16:30:17 <deadweasel> how does one get invited to #bitcoin-security? what is their purpose? i just want to learn.
1661 2013-04-05 16:31:22 <Eliel> deadweasel: discussing and fixing new vulnerabilities that are not public knowledge yet.
1662 2013-04-05 16:31:51 <deadweasel> makes sense. how do they know that they are not public knowledge?
1663 2013-04-05 16:32:01 HiWEB has joined
1664 2013-04-05 16:32:07 <Eliel> if they were there'd be no point in discussing them behind closed doors.
1665 2013-04-05 16:32:24 <Eliel> they don't necessarily know though
1666 2013-04-05 16:32:44 <deadweasel> ok. is it core devs in there only?
1667 2013-04-05 16:32:51 <Eliel> the main point is to keep that info away from black hats.
1668 2013-04-05 16:33:01 <deadweasel> no doubt.
1669 2013-04-05 16:33:21 <Eliel> so, if the vulnerability hasn't been exploited yet, it's likely no black hat has it.
1670 2013-04-05 16:33:37 yano has joined
1671 2013-04-05 16:33:45 <deadweasel> i figured that was the case.
1672 2013-04-05 16:34:18 <deadweasel> Eliel: thx for the info. for the record i dont wear hats. :D
1673 2013-04-05 16:34:23 Joric has joined
1674 2013-04-05 16:34:33 <Eliel> deadweasel: doesn't matter to me. I'm not in the list :)
1675 2013-04-05 16:35:13 <deadweasel> does a lot of development occur around their findings?
1676 2013-04-05 16:35:26 <Eliel> I don't know.
1677 2013-04-05 16:35:27 coolfengyu has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1678 2013-04-05 16:35:37 ltrottier has quit (Quit: ltrottier)
1679 2013-04-05 16:35:55 coolfengyu has joined
1680 2013-04-05 16:35:59 <jarpiain> deadweasel: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposures
1681 2013-04-05 16:36:36 <deadweasel> i'm very curious... also i have some btc so i'd like to know how to mitigate exploits... but i guess it's better to keep in on lockdown...
1682 2013-04-05 16:37:06 <deadweasel> jarpiain: thanks!
1683 2013-04-05 16:37:16 <deadweasel> interesting stuff.
1684 2013-04-05 16:38:07 rdymac has joined
1685 2013-04-05 16:39:27 ltrottier has joined
1686 2013-04-05 16:39:30 <Joric> holy crap what has happened to a google chrome context menu it's huge
1687 2013-04-05 16:39:37 jaequery has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1688 2013-04-05 16:41:53 <gmaxwell> 09:09 < Eliel> deadweasel: discussing and fixing new vulnerabilities that are not public knowledge yet.
1689 2013-04-05 16:41:58 <gmaxwell> It's not even used for that.
1690 2013-04-05 16:42:27 <gmaxwell> Sadly freenode is not a great channel for that kind of discussion.
1691 2013-04-05 16:44:32 <Joric> gmaxwell, did they find something in the bitcoin code?
1692 2013-04-05 16:44:36 sacredchao is now known as Guest837
1693 2013-04-05 16:44:36 Guest837 has quit (Killed (leguin.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
1694 2013-04-05 16:44:40 <gmaxwell> huh? no.
1695 2013-04-05 16:45:11 sfraise has joined
1696 2013-04-05 16:45:18 sacredch1o has joined
1697 2013-04-05 16:46:26 <Joric> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposures <- how about a fixed / not fixed column
1698 2013-04-05 16:46:38 <sfraise> i read that at 22 million bitcoins mining will end, is that right?
1699 2013-04-05 16:46:44 <gmaxwell> #bitcoin-security is a channel with luke, nanotube, and coingenuity in it. It was created after the initial attacks on mtgox eons ago to have a place for some discussion about looming security issues... but AFAIK it's never actually been used for much.
1700 2013-04-05 16:46:54 <gmaxwell> Joric: They're all fixed.
1701 2013-04-05 16:47:08 <Joric> gmaxwell, sorry it wasn't too clear
1702 2013-04-05 16:47:28 <Ry4an> Joric: they spread everything out because the Chromebook Pixel has a touch screen.
1703 2013-04-05 16:47:50 systemParanoid has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1704 2013-04-05 16:48:01 <Joric> does it? for the love of god why
1705 2013-04-05 16:48:40 systemParanoid has joined
1706 2013-04-05 16:48:43 <sipa> sfraise: mining never ends; the subsidy for mining decreases exponentially though
1707 2013-04-05 16:49:13 systemParanoid has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1708 2013-04-05 16:49:54 graingert has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1709 2013-04-05 16:49:57 jdnavarro has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1710 2013-04-05 16:50:05 systemParanoid has joined
1711 2013-04-05 16:50:22 <sfraise> could the bitcoin ever "split" if the value got so high similar to a stock?
1712 2013-04-05 16:50:25 LainZ has joined
1713 2013-04-05 16:50:54 <Eneerge> lol that would be interesting
1714 2013-04-05 16:51:19 Jere_Jones has joined
1715 2013-04-05 16:51:24 <sipa> sfraise: bitcoins are already split into 0.00000001 BTC units
1716 2013-04-05 16:51:31 daybyter has joined
1717 2013-04-05 16:51:35 <pigeons> sfraise: not exactly, but people could start quoting prices and such in cBTC or mBTC https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ#What_do_I_call_the_various_denominations_of_bitcoin.3F
1718 2013-04-05 16:51:35 <sipa> splitting further requires a hard fork
1719 2013-04-05 16:51:43 <sfraise> i just wonder how they will handle deflation
1720 2013-04-05 16:51:59 <sipa> what deflation?
1721 2013-04-05 16:52:16 <pigeons> inflationary subsidy every block right now
1722 2013-04-05 16:52:16 <sfraise> i mean an actual split where 1btc becomes 2
1723 2013-04-05 16:52:18 <EasyAt> We're still inflating :)
1724 2013-04-05 16:52:24 <Joric> after the company meeting i discovered that literally everyone uses lenovo thinkpads mostly x-220 x-230 - seemed like a company policy =) i'll probably get myself a thinkpad x1 carbon
1725 2013-04-05 16:52:43 <sipa> sfraise: it doesn't matter what you call it; you can just switch to another unit
1726 2013-04-05 16:53:00 <sipa> currently 1 BTC = 100000000 units, but that's just a client-side issues
1727 2013-04-05 16:53:00 drizztbsd has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1728 2013-04-05 16:53:37 keymone has quit (Quit: keymone)
1729 2013-04-05 16:53:40 graingert_ has joined
1730 2013-04-05 16:53:43 btcven has joined
1731 2013-04-05 16:53:43 <lianj> Joric: the x1 is the macbookair of thinkpads right? fixed memory and slow. only good thing is the screen
1732 2013-04-05 16:54:21 <Joric> lianj, yeah, and the builtin video, they call all crappy laptops ultrabooks now
1733 2013-04-05 16:54:23 rdymac has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1734 2013-04-05 16:54:29 btcven is now known as rdymac
1735 2013-04-05 16:54:47 monad7 has joined
1736 2013-04-05 16:55:02 <lianj> Joric: get a x230 ;)
1737 2013-04-05 16:55:44 * gmaxwell is using an x230 â liked his old t61x better (better, and 4:3 screen), but this is a lot faster
1738 2013-04-05 16:55:57 <graingert_> gmaxwell: bitcoin vuln's would be a bit off topic in the #freenode channel
1739 2013-04-05 16:56:09 ToryJujube_ has joined
1740 2013-04-05 16:56:13 <monad7> I've got a 0 confirmation transaction here that isn't transmitting. what can cause this?
1741 2013-04-05 16:56:19 <sfraise> so what are most devs working on now, mining, exchange, or business apos?
1742 2013-04-05 16:56:56 <sipa> sfraise: well devs of pools are probably working on miming, devs of exchanges are working on exchanges, and devs of business apps are working on business apps
1743 2013-04-05 16:57:07 <sipa> people here tend to work on bitcoin clients, though :)
1744 2013-04-05 16:57:08 <sfraise> seems like a large focus on mining things atn and little focus on end user apps
1745 2013-04-05 16:57:36 gagecolton has joined
1746 2013-04-05 16:57:45 <sfraise> lol sipa, i mean where is the main concentration
1747 2013-04-05 16:58:11 <sipa> i'm just saying that all depends what you're asking about
1748 2013-04-05 16:58:11 <upb> in the camp
1749 2013-04-05 16:58:26 <Joric> miming hehe
1750 2013-04-05 16:58:38 <sipa> ha
1751 2013-04-05 16:59:08 <upb> miming apis
1752 2013-04-05 16:59:36 <sfraise> what im getting at is the end user app market soft with little focus or will we see a boom in apps soon
1753 2013-04-05 17:00:16 <sipa> are you asking about predicting the future? :p
1754 2013-04-05 17:00:31 <Belxjander> no common transactions library between the various groups?
1755 2013-04-05 17:00:32 HM has joined
1756 2013-04-05 17:01:08 <sfraise> lol asking for an educated guess based on what uve seen
1757 2013-04-05 17:01:11 Tantadruj has joined
1758 2013-04-05 17:01:18 dino___ has joined
1759 2013-04-05 17:02:51 <dino___> Question: If I wanted to find all transactions for a given address, how would I do that? (I know that is available by browsing at blockchain.info, but what if I want to do it programmatically on my computer?)
1760 2013-04-05 17:03:33 <sipa> iterate all blocks, and all transactions in it, and remember those that affect a particular address output, or consume such an output
1761 2013-04-05 17:03:33 <Joric> apparently defaulting to compressed keys was a bad idea, js aside https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=167778.0
1762 2013-04-05 17:03:40 coolfengyu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1763 2013-04-05 17:04:21 <dino___> Sipa, that makes sense. But I'm not sure *how* to iterate all the blocks. Is there an easy way with bitcoind?
1764 2013-04-05 17:04:30 MobPhone has joined
1765 2013-04-05 17:04:41 DrAkaman has joined
1766 2013-04-05 17:04:47 <dino___> If I have all the blocks in a directory (from running bitcoind) how do I open, read the files?
1767 2013-04-05 17:05:09 <sipa> dino___: don't; use the getblock and getrawtransaction RPC calls, but i think it's a bad idea :)
1768 2013-04-05 17:05:23 <Joric> dino___, coding it's a big PITA and you have to build a tree of blocks in the first place
1769 2013-04-05 17:05:38 <sipa> (though at some point in the future we'll likely support watch-only wallets, which would solve this)
1770 2013-04-05 17:06:19 <Joric> i only got to serial scanning https://github.com/joric/pyblockchain
1771 2013-04-05 17:06:22 <dino___> get block / getrawtransaction - wouldn't that potentially return a huge amount of data? Why do you think that's a bad idea?
1772 2013-04-05 17:06:48 <sipa> dino___: because it will be ridiculously slow, and i consider "balance of an address" the wrong abstraction anyway
1773 2013-04-05 17:06:53 <Joric> but i mostly tried to build a chart blockchain size to time
1774 2013-04-05 17:06:58 <sipa> dino___: but don't let me tell you how to do what you want
1775 2013-04-05 17:07:20 <dino___> sipa - I'm just exploring some ideas, so all suggestions are welcome :)
1776 2013-04-05 17:07:40 <sipa> what do you need it for?
1777 2013-04-05 17:07:50 <dino___> Just thinking of a an account as a "bank statement". What if I want to discover all the activity for that account/wallet
1778 2013-04-05 17:08:00 <sfraise> sipa beat me to the ? lol
1779 2013-04-05 17:08:19 <sipa> dino___: indeed, _wallets_, not individual addresses
1780 2013-04-05 17:08:36 <dino___> In general: I'm investigating ways to make BTC more "user friendly" for the nontechnical user. Have a few business ideas. This was part of one.
1781 2013-04-05 17:08:53 <dino___> sipa: You are correct *wallet* not address
1782 2013-04-05 17:09:32 <Joric> i'm investigating ways to make BTC more user friendly for technical users, like transaction editor and other shit )
1783 2013-04-05 17:09:39 robocoin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1784 2013-04-05 17:09:50 sfraise_ has joined
1785 2013-04-05 17:10:11 Aziz has joined
1786 2013-04-05 17:10:20 graingert_ has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
1787 2013-04-05 17:10:47 monad7 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1788 2013-04-05 17:10:49 <sfraise_> dino i think what ur talking about is better served writing to a central db
1789 2013-04-05 17:10:57 graingert_ has joined
1790 2013-04-05 17:11:31 Peacemaker420 has joined
1791 2013-04-05 17:11:36 peacemaker has joined
1792 2013-04-05 17:11:41 <Joric> e.g for making such things easier https://blockchain.info/tx/14947302eab0608fb2650a05f13f6f30b27a0a314c41250000f77ed904475dbb
1793 2013-04-05 17:12:02 _kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1794 2013-04-05 17:12:08 <Joric> greetings to the filthy rich gmaxwell btw
1795 2013-04-05 17:12:09 <sfraise_> assuming ur customer would have an account on ur site
1796 2013-04-05 17:12:27 sfraise has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1797 2013-04-05 17:12:27 ProfMac has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1798 2013-04-05 17:12:49 <dino___> sfraise: Possibly, but still need to *find* all the transactions for a wallet
1799 2013-04-05 17:12:51 Cinon has joined
1800 2013-04-05 17:13:00 <gmaxwell> (Context for that txn: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=139581.0 )
1801 2013-04-05 17:14:01 <coingenuity> gmaxwell: would you like +f in -security to start adding people as needed? just let me know
1802 2013-04-05 17:14:06 <coingenuity> OR ARE YOU TRUSTWORTHY?! hehe
1803 2013-04-05 17:14:21 <sfraise_> not really, unless u want data prior to them setting up an account with u
1804 2013-04-05 17:15:24 <dino___> Not sure yet. Ideally, I'd like to just advertise "Come join our service and we'll find all your transactions". Imagine a time, in the future, when you use BTC for a ton of shopping, etc. Might be nice to get a cleaner report on where your money went.
1805 2013-04-05 17:15:57 <sfraise_> if u just want to show statements from when they create the account u just log that data urself from that point
1806 2013-04-05 17:16:53 <dino___> Right, but what about account history.
1807 2013-04-05 17:17:00 <dino___> Would be nice to go back and find it all for them.
1808 2013-04-05 17:17:06 Gnaf has joined
1809 2013-04-05 17:17:13 <dino___> I guess scanning through all the historical blocks would work - just slow.
1810 2013-04-05 17:17:53 Gnaf has quit (Client Quit)
1811 2013-04-05 17:17:58 jaequery has joined
1812 2013-04-05 17:18:25 <sfraise_> i c more of a real world babk model more oractical, what ur saying qoukd b like trying to track every purchase ive ever made feom every bank acct ice ever had
1813 2013-04-05 17:18:32 jaequery has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1814 2013-04-05 17:18:48 <dino___> Hypothetically, if I did want to scan through all the blocks, how would I do that. I guess that running bitcoind will have all the blocks in a directory on my machine. So, I just need to understand the file format (Or find the right software library) to walk through the blocks sequentially)
1815 2013-04-05 17:19:09 <dino___> sfraise: Not every bank account you ever had, just from the one you told me about.
1816 2013-04-05 17:19:21 jaequery has joined
1817 2013-04-05 17:19:45 <dino___> "Hi, I've been using the BTC wallet for the past 6 months. Sure would be nice to get a cleanly formatted bank statement that explained where all the money went." That type of thing.
1818 2013-04-05 17:21:02 <sipa> meh, the wallet software should do that
1819 2013-04-05 17:21:32 <sipa> or rather, that's something that would belong in wallet software
1820 2013-04-05 17:21:59 <dino___> sipa: yes it does. Have some ideas around this for a possible business product. Don't want to debate the business merits here, this is the dev forum :) Just trying to learn *how* to do this.
1821 2013-04-05 17:22:09 <sipa> ok
1822 2013-04-05 17:22:29 <dino___> Thought I'd save the "ideas" talk for the other channel :)
1823 2013-04-05 17:22:33 nsillik has joined
1824 2013-04-05 17:22:44 <Cinon> can anyone help me with making transactions in php?
1825 2013-04-05 17:22:52 sfraise_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1826 2013-04-05 17:23:01 <dino___> So, how can I walk through the chain and find transactions relating to a given wallet? Can someone point me toward the right tools/library/docs?
1827 2013-04-05 17:23:12 <muhoo> ideas channel?
1828 2013-04-05 17:23:31 <dino___> muhoo: Just the #bitcoin channel. Tons of rambling about ideas and concepts there.
1829 2013-04-05 17:23:43 <Cinon> I mean, without resorting to RPC calls
1830 2013-04-05 17:23:51 <muhoo> ah.
1831 2013-04-05 17:24:00 <dino___> I'm new, and not one of the main devs, at all, but trying to keep this channel pure and just discuss the technical aspects.
1832 2013-04-05 17:24:04 BlueWall has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1833 2013-04-05 17:24:18 BlueWall has joined
1834 2013-04-05 17:24:46 <Cinon> can anyone help me with making transactions in php without resorting to RPC calls?
1835 2013-04-05 17:25:31 <Cinon> I've been looking at the source code of bitcoin for hours, but it's a nightmare :(
1836 2013-04-05 17:27:01 <sipa> Cinon: why would you not want to use the RPC calls; it _will_ be a hell otherwise
1837 2013-04-05 17:27:37 <Cinon> because litecoind doesn't have raw transaction rpc calls <.<
1838 2013-04-05 17:28:06 <gmaxwell> "Sounds like a personal problem"
1839 2013-04-05 17:28:09 GMP has joined
1840 2013-04-05 17:29:02 <kjj> creating the transaction is easy. signing it is not
1841 2013-04-05 17:29:21 <Joric> meh
1842 2013-04-05 17:29:55 <kjj> well, if you limit yourself to very simple transactions, you can ignore a lot of the complexity of full signing
1843 2013-04-05 17:29:59 ZeroIce has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1844 2013-04-05 17:30:35 MAN0liYOU has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1845 2013-04-05 17:30:42 <Cinon> I need to sign it locally with php and send it to a public server that will transmit the transaction to the network
1846 2013-04-05 17:30:56 sebicas has quit (Quit: sebicas)
1847 2013-04-05 17:31:10 <sipa> Cinon: you'll need about half a full implementation of a bitcoin client in PHP for that...
1848 2013-04-05 17:31:14 MAN0liYOU has joined
1849 2013-04-05 17:31:31 <kjj> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transactions
1850 2013-04-05 17:31:37 MAN0liYOU is now known as Guest96332
1851 2013-04-05 17:32:08 <kjj> look at the map on that page, should get you started
1852 2013-04-05 17:32:35 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1853 2013-04-05 17:32:43 nikitis has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1854 2013-04-05 17:32:48 <kjj> but seriously consider finding a way to get access to a node that supports signrawtransaction
1855 2013-04-05 17:33:21 <Cinon> there isn't any
1856 2013-04-05 17:33:29 <kjj> yes, there is
1857 2013-04-05 17:33:39 sebicas has joined
1858 2013-04-05 17:34:04 <Cinon> maybe it would be easier to make a litecoin client with signrawtransaction?
1859 2013-04-05 17:34:14 robocoin has joined
1860 2013-04-05 17:35:09 Blackreign has joined
1861 2013-04-05 17:35:19 graingert_ has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
1862 2013-04-05 17:36:27 hsmithsN7_ has joined
1863 2013-04-05 17:37:14 ProfMac has joined
1864 2013-04-05 17:37:49 _flow_ has joined
1865 2013-04-05 17:38:01 <Cinon> well thanks anyway
1866 2013-04-05 17:38:08 nsillik has quit (Quit: nsillik)
1867 2013-04-05 17:40:05 <dino___> Anyone know if mtgox has a way to download historical prices?
1868 2013-04-05 17:40:58 <Cinon> can anyone tell me what is an eckey?
1869 2013-04-05 17:41:10 hsmithsN7_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1870 2013-04-05 17:41:35 altamic has joined
1871 2013-04-05 17:42:08 ProfMac_ has joined
1872 2013-04-05 17:42:45 <HM> Cinon: elliptical curve key
1873 2013-04-05 17:43:01 <Joric> dino___, something like that http://pastebin.com/udNMN2fM check out the entire http://pastebin.com/u/joric
1874 2013-04-05 17:43:17 <Cinon> thanks!
1875 2013-04-05 17:43:21 Dxbydt has joined
1876 2013-04-05 17:43:21 <dino___> boric. Thanks!
1877 2013-04-05 17:43:27 <HM> Elliptic
1878 2013-04-05 17:43:43 <dino___> Joric - looks like you've done a lot of great work there. Thank You
1879 2013-04-05 17:43:52 kalleboo_ has quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
1880 2013-04-05 17:47:03 vigilyn has joined
1881 2013-04-05 17:47:25 Prattler has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
1882 2013-04-05 17:47:49 toffoo has joined
1883 2013-04-05 17:48:10 <ColinT> Proof of stake - we need this like naaao! ;D
1884 2013-04-05 17:48:11 Guest94090 is now known as ageis
1885 2013-04-05 17:48:41 <ProfMac_> I am working through examples. I tried this, and don't get the expected result.
1886 2013-04-05 17:48:45 <ProfMac_> aubrey@gaia:~/.bitcoin$ curl --ssl --data-binary '{"jasonrpc": "1.0", "id":"curltest", "method": "getinfo", "params": [] }' -H 'content-type: text/plain;' https://blockchain.info:443/ {"error":{"message":"JSON-RPC method [getinfo] with 0 parameters not found.","code":-32601},"jsonrpc":"2.0"}aubrey@gaia:~/.bitcoin$
1887 2013-04-05 17:49:13 <Joric> jasonrpc, really?
1888 2013-04-05 17:51:23 <ProfMac_> that's what the example says. URL soon.
1889 2013-04-05 17:52:03 Prattler has joined
1890 2013-04-05 17:52:28 <ProfMac_> adapted from https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_reference_(JSON-RPC)
1891 2013-04-05 17:53:11 <Joric> ProfMac_, theres a typo should be "jsonrpc" not sure it's essential
1892 2013-04-05 17:54:06 <ProfMac_> oh, and it works against bitcoind v0.8.1.0-g34d62a8-beta
1893 2013-04-05 17:54:23 dino___ has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
1894 2013-04-05 17:54:51 <ProfMac_> LOL. Thanks.
1895 2013-04-05 17:55:01 Prattler has quit (Client Quit)
1896 2013-04-05 17:55:11 <ProfMac_> The posted URL has it right.
1897 2013-04-05 17:56:35 valparaiso_afk is now known as valparaiso
1898 2013-04-05 17:57:09 qeb has joined
1899 2013-04-05 17:58:47 da2ce7_d has joined
1900 2013-04-05 18:00:56 grau has joined
1901 2013-04-05 18:01:08 da2ce7_d2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1902 2013-04-05 18:01:09 Joric has quit ()
1903 2013-04-05 18:02:01 leprosys has joined
1904 2013-04-05 18:02:01 leprosys has quit (Changing host)
1905 2013-04-05 18:02:01 leprosys has joined
1906 2013-04-05 18:02:35 ligar has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1907 2013-04-05 18:03:30 ayalan has joined
1908 2013-04-05 18:04:05 ligar has joined
1909 2013-04-05 18:06:16 bolapara_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1910 2013-04-05 18:06:26 rdymac has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1911 2013-04-05 18:07:47 Zoop_ has joined
1912 2013-04-05 18:09:34 dbe has joined
1913 2013-04-05 18:09:58 dbe is now known as Guest38713
1914 2013-04-05 18:10:44 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1915 2013-04-05 18:14:16 Guest38713 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1916 2013-04-05 18:14:24 tg has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1917 2013-04-05 18:15:46 qwertyoruiop is now known as zz_qwertyoruiop
1918 2013-04-05 18:18:41 Tantadruj has quit (Quit: DoubleRecall Turns Paywalls Into Advertising Dollars - NYTimes.com http://nyti.ms/odHOgy)
1919 2013-04-05 18:19:17 ioi has joined
1920 2013-04-05 18:19:50 hnz has joined
1921 2013-04-05 18:20:02 Tantadruj has joined
1922 2013-04-05 18:20:31 phungus has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1923 2013-04-05 18:20:32 nsillik has joined
1924 2013-04-05 18:21:05 ioi has quit (Client Quit)
1925 2013-04-05 18:21:48 phungus has joined
1926 2013-04-05 18:22:02 ioi has joined
1927 2013-04-05 18:22:03 graingert_ has joined
1928 2013-04-05 18:22:07 graingert_ has quit (Changing host)
1929 2013-04-05 18:22:07 graingert_ has joined
1930 2013-04-05 18:22:13 ThomasV has joined
1931 2013-04-05 18:22:53 tg has joined
1932 2013-04-05 18:23:13 skeledrew has joined
1933 2013-04-05 18:23:47 dust-otc has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1934 2013-04-05 18:24:35 Grouver has joined
1935 2013-04-05 18:24:46 bolapara_ has joined
1936 2013-04-05 18:25:50 wund3r has left ()
1937 2013-04-05 18:26:02 Lexx__ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1938 2013-04-05 18:26:10 nomailin1 has joined
1939 2013-04-05 18:26:29 zz_qwertyoruiop is now known as qwertyoruiop
1940 2013-04-05 18:26:41 sebicas_ has joined
1941 2013-04-05 18:26:52 brson has joined
1942 2013-04-05 18:26:55 stochasm has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1943 2013-04-05 18:28:30 sebicas has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1944 2013-04-05 18:28:31 sebicas_ is now known as sebicas
1945 2013-04-05 18:33:29 drago777- has left ()
1946 2013-04-05 18:34:15 midnightmagic has quit (Quit: quit)
1947 2013-04-05 18:34:49 midnightmagic has joined
1948 2013-04-05 18:36:09 midnightmagic has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1949 2013-04-05 18:36:49 midnightmagic has joined
1950 2013-04-05 18:38:02 majoh has joined
1951 2013-04-05 18:38:42 randomuser_ has joined
1952 2013-04-05 18:40:12 <Eneerge> what langauge is mtgox written in
1953 2013-04-05 18:40:38 graingert_ has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
1954 2013-04-05 18:41:16 graingert_ has joined
1955 2013-04-05 18:41:16 graingert_ has quit (Changing host)
1956 2013-04-05 18:41:16 graingert_ has joined
1957 2013-04-05 18:41:18 manet has joined
1958 2013-04-05 18:41:51 avantgeek has joined
1959 2013-04-05 18:42:39 <flyingkiwiguy> Magic the Gathering cards
1960 2013-04-05 18:42:44 brson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1961 2013-04-05 18:43:17 johnsoft1 has quit (Excess Flood)
1962 2013-04-05 18:44:00 <Cryo> *rimshot*
1963 2013-04-05 18:44:32 <Scrat> badum tshhhhhh
1964 2013-04-05 18:44:44 alphaguru has quit ()
1965 2013-04-05 18:45:11 <Cryo> the bitcoin code is written in bits.
1966 2013-04-05 18:45:24 johnsoft has joined
1967 2013-04-05 18:45:31 ioi has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1968 2013-04-05 18:45:40 brson has joined
1969 2013-04-05 18:47:05 <Scrat> the trading engine is actually a dungeon master
1970 2013-04-05 18:47:54 <flyingkiwiguy> percentile dice are used to compute tx charges
1971 2013-04-05 18:48:29 <Cinon> I'm still trying to make a transaction in php... why isn't there, anywhere, an explanation on how to do transactions manually?
1972 2013-04-05 18:48:52 stochasm has joined
1973 2013-04-05 18:49:09 <Scrat> Cinon: raw transactions? because it's hard and you will shoot yourself in the foot
1974 2013-04-05 18:49:58 <Cinon> I already shot myself in the foot
1975 2013-04-05 18:50:15 graingert_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1976 2013-04-05 18:50:23 has quit (Clown|!~clown@unaffiliated/clown/x-0272709|Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1977 2013-04-05 18:50:33 has joined
1978 2013-04-05 18:50:33 has quit (Clown|!Clown@static-87-79-93-140.netcologne.de|Changing host)
1979 2013-04-05 18:50:33 has joined
1980 2013-04-05 18:50:33 johnsoft has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1981 2013-04-05 18:50:56 graingert_ has joined
1982 2013-04-05 18:50:56 graingert_ has quit (Client Quit)
1983 2013-04-05 18:51:53 Mr_G has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1984 2013-04-05 18:52:09 <Cinon> I don't think that it's hard at all, just that we need a better explanation of how things really work and what they mean
1985 2013-04-05 18:52:10 <Cryo> both feet
1986 2013-04-05 18:52:12 <Cryo> and your head
1987 2013-04-05 18:53:35 RUNARMY0f1 has joined
1988 2013-04-05 18:53:59 BR-afk has joined
1989 2013-04-05 18:54:55 has quit (Clown|!Clown@unaffiliated/clown/x-0272709|Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1990 2013-04-05 18:55:33 ltrottier has quit (Quit: ltrottier)
1991 2013-04-05 18:56:07 has joined
1992 2013-04-05 18:56:08 has quit (Clown|!~clown@static-87-79-93-140.netcologne.de|Changing host)
1993 2013-04-05 18:56:08 has joined
1994 2013-04-05 18:56:37 dikidera has joined
1995 2013-04-05 18:56:55 tsche has quit ()
1996 2013-04-05 18:58:51 unas has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1997 2013-04-05 19:02:08 hyperjacker has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1998 2013-04-05 19:03:48 saivann__ is now known as saivann
1999 2013-04-05 19:03:59 saivann has quit ()
2000 2013-04-05 19:04:10 saivann has joined
2001 2013-04-05 19:06:37 pgvoorhees has joined
2002 2013-04-05 19:06:56 alexwaters has joined
2003 2013-04-05 19:07:26 peawormsworth has joined
2004 2013-04-05 19:07:35 _ingsoc has joined
2005 2013-04-05 19:07:56 <ColinT> Cinon - if you find an example let me know
2006 2013-04-05 19:08:04 Ashaman has joined
2007 2013-04-05 19:08:26 <_ingsoc> I'm interested in finding a way to link a coin to helping charitable organisations.
2008 2013-04-05 19:08:43 Tantadruj has quit (Quit: DoubleRecall Turns Paywalls Into Advertising Dollars - NYTimes.com http://nyti.ms/odHOgy)
2009 2013-04-05 19:08:44 <_ingsoc> I don't think a donation site will help much.
2010 2013-04-05 19:08:46 <Cinon> there are many, impossible to understand, examples written in exotic useless languages :(
2011 2013-04-05 19:08:48 <gfinn> what do you mean 'link'?
2012 2013-04-05 19:08:58 ayalan is now known as chocoporter
2013 2013-04-05 19:09:18 Tantadruj has joined
2014 2013-04-05 19:09:19 chocoporter has left ()
2015 2013-04-05 19:09:29 <gavinandresen> "FWIW currently the majority of the core team members, Gregory Maxwell, Jeff Garzik and Pieter Wuille, have all stated they are against increasing the blocksize as the solution to the scalability problem. "
2016 2013-04-05 19:09:32 <_ingsoc> Well, I mean most BTC people wouldn't have much incentive to mine for charity.
2017 2013-04-05 19:09:38 <_ingsoc> Not at this point probably.
2018 2013-04-05 19:09:38 MobPhone has quit (Quit: -a- bbiab)
2019 2013-04-05 19:09:38 <gfinn> Cinon: lol
2020 2013-04-05 19:09:41 Guest96332 is now known as abueesp
2021 2013-04-05 19:09:49 <gfinn> Cinon: maybe it's time to learn another language
2022 2013-04-05 19:09:57 <gavinandresen> sipa gmaxwell jgarzik: true? I thought there was rough consensus that it will need to rise sooner or later.
2023 2013-04-05 19:10:01 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
2024 2013-04-05 19:10:55 <Cinon> yeah well when someone needs to put the damn funtion in another funtion, in another funtion, and again in another function, it becomes impossible to follow wtf is going on
2025 2013-04-05 19:11:00 <_ingsoc> I don't know if anyone is interested in forking for that purpose.
2026 2013-04-05 19:11:09 <alexwaters> sipa: alright to PM?
2027 2013-04-05 19:11:09 <gfinn> _ingsoc: there are already ways to donate bitcoins to charity. how is your idea different from that?
2028 2013-04-05 19:11:20 <gfinn> _ingsoc: forking the code or forking the blockchain?
2029 2013-04-05 19:11:33 <_ingsoc> gfinn: I'm too inexperienced to know the difference.
2030 2013-04-05 19:11:46 <Cinon> and mixed in between those functions is other useless code
2031 2013-04-05 19:11:54 <_ingsoc> gfinn: But that wouldn't encourage people to mine.
2032 2013-04-05 19:12:04 <gfinn> Cinon: ah, try writing it BASIC
2033 2013-04-05 19:12:23 <Cinon> it's not a problem of writing it, it's understanding how and what
2034 2013-04-05 19:12:49 <gfinn> _ingsoc: well, forking the blockchain would basically mean you're not using bitcoins anymore, but your own variant of bitcoins
2035 2013-04-05 19:13:00 <gfinn> whereas you could fork the client and produce a compatible client with additional features
2036 2013-04-05 19:13:25 MC-Droid has joined
2037 2013-04-05 19:13:45 rbecker is now known as RBecker
2038 2013-04-05 19:13:53 <peawormsworth> _ingsoc: here is a link to a deposit address for wikileaks: https://blockchain.info/address/1HB5XMLmzFVj8ALj6mfBsbifRoD4miY36v
2039 2013-04-05 19:14:20 <peawormsworth> _ingsoc: the current method of donation is simple and works.
2040 2013-04-05 19:14:23 <gfinn> _ingsoc: so what's your idea?
2041 2013-04-05 19:14:45 <gfinn> and how is it related to incentive to donate?
2042 2013-04-05 19:15:13 SwedFTP has joined
2043 2013-04-05 19:15:52 qeb has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2044 2013-04-05 19:16:10 RUNARMY0f1 has quit ()
2045 2013-04-05 19:16:35 bernard75 has joined
2046 2013-04-05 19:16:46 Prattler has joined
2047 2013-04-05 19:16:51 n5 has joined
2048 2013-04-05 19:17:04 <_ingsoc> I think what I'm saying doesn't really require a whole new currency. :/
2049 2013-04-05 19:18:23 <gfinn> great, then do it
2050 2013-04-05 19:18:32 <_ingsoc> I think I will!
2051 2013-04-05 19:19:02 Davincij has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2052 2013-04-05 19:19:50 <MC-Droid> damn wl have made a pretty penny off bitcoin
2053 2013-04-05 19:20:01 n1c has quit (Quit: Well that's strange.)
2054 2013-04-05 19:20:25 gfinn has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2055 2013-04-05 19:20:30 <MC-Droid> i read somewhere that they can actually pay some server costs directly in btc
2056 2013-04-05 19:20:38 <MC-Droid> prob true
2057 2013-04-05 19:20:56 tsche has joined
2058 2013-04-05 19:21:45 <Cinon> example: writing print('lol') is understandable, writing function omg(){printlol('lol');} function lol(crazy){ print(crazy);} function printlol(wtf){ lol(wtf);}omg(); is not
2059 2013-04-05 19:21:52 <MC-Droid> could there be a more archetypical use case for bitcoin given what happened with wl accounts
2060 2013-04-05 19:22:01 <Cinon> that the sort of code that's our there, a mess
2061 2013-04-05 19:23:28 <HM> std::bind(printlol, "lol")();
2062 2013-04-05 19:23:36 <Cinon> you need to follow 5 functions to -maybe- find the code you look for, and that for a crazy amont of functions
2063 2013-04-05 19:26:07 _ingsoc has left ()
2064 2013-04-05 19:26:17 <Prattler> Hello, I'm running both bitcoind and litecoind. Suddenly I started getting 100% CPU usage on litecoind. Same with bitcoin-msghand. Those two processes start memory leaking (went up to 1.5 GB from 0.5). I killed litecoind and bitcoin-msghand freed the memory and returned to 0% CPU. What's up?.. How can litecoind interfere with bitcoind?
2065 2013-04-05 19:26:20 brson has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2066 2013-04-05 19:26:28 taha has joined
2067 2013-04-05 19:27:20 <HM> Prattler: they shouldn't
2068 2013-04-05 19:27:36 <Prattler> some 3rd party library perhaps? I will see if it reproduces
2069 2013-04-05 19:27:41 <Cinon> prattler: bad written code, no one can understand a fck anymore
2070 2013-04-05 19:28:04 nomailin1 has quit (Quit: nomailin1)
2071 2013-04-05 19:28:07 robocoin has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2072 2013-04-05 19:31:18 normanrichards has joined
2073 2013-04-05 19:34:10 MWNinja_ has joined
2074 2013-04-05 19:34:47 Mr_G has joined
2075 2013-04-05 19:35:02 coolsa has joined
2076 2013-04-05 19:35:45 n5 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2077 2013-04-05 19:36:12 dikidera is now known as diki
2078 2013-04-05 19:38:13 <Cinon> not to mention the lack of comments, so one can only guess what something means
2079 2013-04-05 19:41:50 abueesp has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2080 2013-04-05 19:42:26 quaz0r has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2081 2013-04-05 19:42:37 quaz has joined
2082 2013-04-05 19:42:44 quaz is now known as quaz0r
2083 2013-04-05 19:42:51 ratchetoverflow has joined
2084 2013-04-05 19:44:09 whizter has joined
2085 2013-04-05 19:48:44 brson has joined
2086 2013-04-05 19:50:16 sebicas has quit (Quit: sebicas)
2087 2013-04-05 19:50:34 FredEE has quit (Quit: FredEE)
2088 2013-04-05 19:50:51 zw has joined
2089 2013-04-05 19:50:54 Twam has joined
2090 2013-04-05 19:52:41 <Prattler> ok, I think it might have something to do I modded litecoind to make 100 outgoing connections
2091 2013-04-05 19:52:55 <Prattler> it is having a hard time finding so many listening nodes
2092 2013-04-05 19:53:14 brson has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2093 2013-04-05 19:53:18 <Prattler> litecoind's net part might be ddosint itself
2094 2013-04-05 19:55:19 zw has quit ()
2095 2013-04-05 19:56:46 taha has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2096 2013-04-05 19:56:47 Scrat_d has joined
2097 2013-04-05 19:56:48 Scrat is now known as Guest24653
2098 2013-04-05 19:56:59 kadoban has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2099 2013-04-05 19:57:00 Scrat_d is now known as Scrat
2100 2013-04-05 19:57:31 Guest24653 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2101 2013-04-05 20:00:37 robocoin has joined
2102 2013-04-05 20:00:47 hsmithsN7_ has joined
2103 2013-04-05 20:01:31 <MC-Droid> lol
2104 2013-04-05 20:01:48 <MC-Droid> not even 100 real nodes?
2105 2013-04-05 20:02:52 randomuser_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2106 2013-04-05 20:03:42 Cinon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2107 2013-04-05 20:05:21 hsmithsN7_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2108 2013-04-05 20:09:29 Prattler has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2109 2013-04-05 20:10:29 Prattler has joined
2110 2013-04-05 20:11:50 Ashaman has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2111 2013-04-05 20:11:58 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2112 2013-04-05 20:15:08 toffoo has quit ()
2113 2013-04-05 20:18:36 ovidiusoft has joined
2114 2013-04-05 20:21:19 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2115 2013-04-05 20:25:51 john5223 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2116 2013-04-05 20:26:14 ThomasV has joined
2117 2013-04-05 20:26:40 <diki> In the latest versions of bitcoin-qt/bitcoind, is wallet.dat still the file you need to backup if you want to backup the wallet?
2118 2013-04-05 20:26:46 <diki> Or were there changes
2119 2013-04-05 20:27:52 ProfMac has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2120 2013-04-05 20:28:17 ProfMac_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2121 2013-04-05 20:29:38 <redeeman> diki, i believe wallet.dat should be enough, if you use bitcoin-qt for example it will also export wallet.dat if you use the backup feature
2122 2013-04-05 20:29:49 <redeeman> just remember you have to copy wallet.dat when bitcoind/bitcoin-qt is not running
2123 2013-04-05 20:29:55 <redeeman> or use the backup feature
2124 2013-04-05 20:30:02 <diki> redeeman:And if I have an old backup, saw from 0.3.21, will it be compatible?
2125 2013-04-05 20:30:07 <redeeman> i do not know
2126 2013-04-05 20:30:09 <diki> *say
2127 2013-04-05 20:32:55 ProfMac has joined
2128 2013-04-05 20:32:58 XRPTrader2 has quit (Quit: XRPTrader2)
2129 2013-04-05 20:33:44 tsche has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2130 2013-04-05 20:33:54 tsche has joined
2131 2013-04-05 20:35:24 <someonesomewhere> question: technical in nature. Could it be possible to create a mechanism through which distributed computing problems "chunks" (think folding at home, seti, etc) can be packed into "blocks" difficult enough that guarantees security, but solves for science at the same time, instead of just solving hard math problems(which is important). Just thinking out loud.
2132 2013-04-05 20:35:42 zrad has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2133 2013-04-05 20:36:32 <gmaxwell> someonesomewhere: No, not really.
2134 2013-04-05 20:36:44 <realazthat> sipa: you mentioned gettxout, is there docs on that somewhere?
2135 2013-04-05 20:37:02 <pjorrit_> the science you're doing should be a hash function, then it may work
2136 2013-04-05 20:37:28 <gmaxwell> In order to provide security there are a number of essential properties which are hard to provide otherwise. For example, there can be no trapdoor to do it easier. This is basically impossible to provide for arbitrary functions.
2137 2013-04-05 20:37:31 brson has joined
2138 2013-04-05 20:38:27 <saivann> I have prepared a "secure your wallet" page for the website. As it is pretty sensitive, it requires to be reviewed. Some of its content was already in the "your need to know" page, but this one goes further
2139 2013-04-05 20:38:28 <saivann> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/pull/118
2140 2013-04-05 20:38:46 <wumpus> and it needs to be efficient to verify the proof of work; the only way to find out whether the science work was really done is to replicate it
2141 2013-04-05 20:39:04 <gmaxwell> someonesomewhere: more abstractly and less technically, its arguable that the function being evaluated must actually have no value outside of Bitcoin to really uphold the security expectationsâ because it's at least somewhat important that effort spent on failing forks is actually wasted. If the work you do is valuable independendantly of bitcoin, then perhaps you have less incentive to follow strictly the most likely to survive chain.
2142 2013-04-05 20:39:11 <someonesomewhere> gmaxwell, wumpus: thanks. just thinking
2143 2013-04-05 20:39:54 <gmaxwell> wumpus: You can make science work that produces easily verifyable POW in many cases. Any kind of stiocastic search problem where you have a cheap kernel that you evaluate many many times has this structure.
2144 2013-04-05 20:41:02 <gmaxwell> wumpus: but also most science problems don't have the property that every evaluation is independent, which we need too. E.g. good protein foldings tend to be clustered in configuration space.
2145 2013-04-05 20:41:08 <Goonie_> saivann: I think there is no plural of "software"
2146 2013-04-05 20:41:10 tsche has quit ()
2147 2013-04-05 20:41:31 keymone_ has joined
2148 2013-04-05 20:41:57 <saivann> Goonie_ : Right, thanks. Will fix this little typo
2149 2013-04-05 20:42:01 <gmaxwell> someonesomewhere: if you search the altocoin subforum you can find several proposals along these lines, including one rather long one involving embedding a lua engine in a pow system. But even with lots of layers of 'fixes' its not clear that they work so well.
2150 2013-04-05 20:42:04 <wumpus> gmaxwell: true, if you're for example doing seti and found the alien signals it may be easy to verify, but the opposite isn't
2151 2013-04-05 20:42:11 clownius has joined
2152 2013-04-05 20:42:17 <wumpus> gmaxwell: also it's usually not guaranteed that there are solutions in a work packet.. which makes scaling difficulty impossible
2153 2013-04-05 20:42:23 <gmaxwell> someonesomewhere: it seems to me that you could try to construct such a thing, but it would end up strictly less secure than bitcoin.
2154 2013-04-05 20:42:32 keymone_ has quit (Client Quit)
2155 2013-04-05 20:43:22 <someonesomewhere> gmaxwell: I am not sure that I would be able to create such a thing (I am not as math incline as I would have to be, ...) but I just wanted to ask out loud to hear what others have to say about it.
2156 2013-04-05 20:43:27 <saivann> Alan Reiner from Armory did review the "offline wallet" part already
2157 2013-04-05 20:43:31 <wumpus> also who would be providing the science puzzles, a central entity?
2158 2013-04-05 20:43:35 <gmaxwell> wumpus: one way to do such a thing is that you do all of the work, and then take the necessary 'stuff' that the work leaves over, e.g. like the final state of the memory from the evaluation, and just hash it. Then thats your thing that you evaluate against difficulty. But thats still open to the possiblity that someone learns how to simplify the work part and then takes over the chain.
2159 2013-04-05 20:43:56 <Goonie_> saivann: s/dependant/dependent/
2160 2013-04-05 20:44:14 <someonesomewhere> gmaxwell: thanks for the information. I will go read some more and try to formulate other questions.
2161 2013-04-05 20:44:28 <gmaxwell> wumpus: in the case of the aformentioned lua thing, you basically pay to puzzles as transaction fees, and then miners work on the puzzles to redeem the fees. (But that means you can provide trap door functions then go mine them yourself)
2162 2013-04-05 20:44:43 <saivann> Goonie_ : noted
2163 2013-04-05 20:44:45 <wumpus> gmaxwell: interesting
2164 2013-04-05 20:45:28 <gmaxwell> e.g. 'attempt to factor this big near-prime' ... "oh amazingly, I found the exact factoring! look how lucky I am" :P
2165 2013-04-05 20:46:03 saulimus has joined
2166 2013-04-05 20:46:52 <gmaxwell> or even you write a normal science problem, but then pass it through a code obfscuator that makes it much slower to execute. e.g. converts it into a simulated turing machine. ... then you and your friends work on the optimized version, while the rest of the network works on the slow version... and you takeover the blockchain that way.
2167 2013-04-05 20:47:12 <wumpus> yes if anyone can provide puzzles it'd be possible to cheat, and there would be no guarantee it's actually "useful" work (which is difficult to define in the first place)
2168 2013-04-05 20:48:12 <Goonie_> saivann: s/conjuction/conjunction
2169 2013-04-05 20:48:12 <wumpus> somehow the network will have to choose people they trust to provide real useful puzzles that are not just bypassable functions
2170 2013-04-05 20:48:25 kadoban has joined
2171 2013-04-05 20:48:41 <saivann> Goonie_ : noted, thanks!
2172 2013-04-05 20:49:10 <wumpus> I suppose that could be done by voting, but letting the miners vote would be a perverse incentive
2173 2013-04-05 20:49:15 ielo has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2174 2013-04-05 20:49:31 <gmaxwell> wumpus: yep, cheating increases your cheating power. :P
2175 2013-04-05 20:49:52 tsche has joined
2176 2013-04-05 20:49:53 <Goonie_> saivann: I'm not sure if it makes sense to describe offline wallets since there is virtually no infrastructure in place currently
2177 2013-04-05 20:50:00 <someonesomewhere> another question: I am interested on learning how the bitcoin code works (hopefully I can contribute a patch 1 day), where should I start ? There is soo much technology cooked up together, I mean hashes, POW, keys, etc. Those of you with experience, what should I learn 1st, then 2nd, etc. Just looking for a quick outline.
2178 2013-04-05 20:50:05 qwertyoruiop is now known as zz_qwertyoruiop
2179 2013-04-05 20:50:47 <saivann> Goonie_ : Apparently that a lot of people are trying, and some actually fails because they don't do it right. I intended to help fixing this with clear warning and guidelines.
2180 2013-04-05 20:50:57 <gmaxwell> someonesomewhere: for the code? dig and and mess around with it. Change something that interests youâ I can tell you that XX is easiest to work on, but if that doesn't interest you... so what?
2181 2013-04-05 20:51:34 <diki> How do I check if I have the private key for an address, i.e if an address I specify is owned by me?
2182 2013-04-05 20:51:41 <gmaxwell> (probably the easiest thing to work on is adding data which is already known in the software to RPC output or log messages ... though thats not exactly the most useful work)
2183 2013-04-05 20:52:00 keymone_ has joined
2184 2013-04-05 20:52:32 wizkidO57 has joined
2185 2013-04-05 20:52:34 <saivann> Goonie_ : And just like multi-signature wallet, this is not something we can find today. But I thought that this could increase demand for these features and creates a better understanding of the security
2186 2013-04-05 20:53:10 wizkid057 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2187 2013-04-05 20:53:13 cads has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2188 2013-04-05 20:53:15 <Goonie_> saivann: ok, point taken.
2189 2013-04-05 20:53:21 <someonesomewhere> yes, but I am thinking more along the lines of re-implementing some of the algorithms just so that I can understand how they work. But I am having problems understanding the interdependencies. I mean, this is crypto stuff. I guess I will have to read more about that.
2190 2013-04-05 20:53:33 wizkidO57 is now known as wizkid057
2191 2013-04-05 20:54:58 <Goonie_> saivann: For the encrypt wallet paragraph, I'm missing an instruction of how to use a strong password without forgetting. It's a very difficult problem to solve, especially for a typical user.
2192 2013-04-05 20:55:35 <saivann> Goonie_ : Yes indeed, good point. Any idea?
2193 2013-04-05 20:55:51 ColinT has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2194 2013-04-05 20:56:20 <Goonie_> saivann: Unfortunately not really. The german c't magazine had a big article about the security of passwords though.
2195 2013-04-05 20:57:41 <saivann> Goonie_ : At least there is a paragraph against the risk of forgetting the password, but some good tips would be good.
2196 2013-04-05 20:58:24 keymone___ has joined
2197 2013-04-05 20:58:24 keymone___ has quit (Client Quit)
2198 2013-04-05 21:01:33 keymone_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2199 2013-04-05 21:03:15 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2200 2013-04-05 21:03:46 Davincij15 has joined
2201 2013-04-05 21:06:47 n5 has joined
2202 2013-04-05 21:07:17 mappum has joined
2203 2013-04-05 21:08:03 Mr_G has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2204 2013-04-05 21:08:18 dafuq is now known as fiatbubble
2205 2013-04-05 21:08:30 Mr_G has joined
2206 2013-04-05 21:09:51 Twam_ has joined
2207 2013-04-05 21:11:09 n5 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2208 2013-04-05 21:11:46 Twam has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2209 2013-04-05 21:15:30 sud3n has joined
2210 2013-04-05 21:15:42 <MC1984> getblocktemplate supposed to output raw hex?
2211 2013-04-05 21:17:51 hnz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2212 2013-04-05 21:18:25 Grouver has quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- *I* use it, so it must be good!)
2213 2013-04-05 21:19:26 BlackPrapor has joined
2214 2013-04-05 21:20:26 <MC1984> there are only 15.5m txns in the whole blockchain
2215 2013-04-05 21:20:32 <MC1984> am i reading this right
2216 2013-04-05 21:21:22 <sipa> could be yes
2217 2013-04-05 21:22:30 <lianj> and only about 10m uniq addresses used in outputs
2218 2013-04-05 21:23:05 <MC1984> no one deliberately spamming dust at random addresses?
2219 2013-04-05 21:23:34 <MC1984> i suppose that would be cost prohibitive
2220 2013-04-05 21:23:39 <lianj> for what reason if the have to pay fees
2221 2013-04-05 21:23:44 hnz has joined
2222 2013-04-05 21:23:48 clownius has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2223 2013-04-05 21:23:58 <MC1984> kill bitcoin
2224 2013-04-05 21:24:57 zz_qwertyoruiop is now known as qwertyoruiop
2225 2013-04-05 21:25:22 <gonffen> if satoshidice isn't killing bitcoin I don't think anyone else can
2226 2013-04-05 21:25:42 <quaz0r> ae911truth.org
2227 2013-04-05 21:25:45 <HM> sound logic
2228 2013-04-05 21:26:21 <MC1984> dice is nothing
2229 2013-04-05 21:26:35 <gonffen> maybe
2230 2013-04-05 21:26:41 <gonffen> it's a pretty large chunk of the traffic currently
2231 2013-04-05 21:27:05 <pjorrit_> wait until bitcoindice they'll be millions of times bigger
2232 2013-04-05 21:27:30 BlackPrapor has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2233 2013-04-05 21:27:41 [Author] has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
2234 2013-04-05 21:27:47 BlackPrapor has joined
2235 2013-04-05 21:28:06 [Author] has joined
2236 2013-04-05 21:28:27 wizkidO57 has joined
2237 2013-04-05 21:28:58 wizkid057 has quit (Disconnected by services)
2238 2013-04-05 21:29:03 wizkidO57 is now known as wizkid057
2239 2013-04-05 21:29:21 <MC1984> dumb question
2240 2013-04-05 21:29:23 Tantadruj has quit (Quit: DoubleRecall Turns Paywalls Into Advertising Dollars - NYTimes.com http://nyti.ms/odHOgy)
2241 2013-04-05 21:29:42 <MC1984> what happens if bitcoin runs out of spare sockets for all the thin clients
2242 2013-04-05 21:30:03 <MC1984> the whole network
2243 2013-04-05 21:30:14 <MC1984> esp. inbound sockets
2244 2013-04-05 21:30:14 <CodeShark> ?
2245 2013-04-05 21:30:15 <gmaxwell> MC1984: people start crying and we make paniced cries for more people to run fullnodes.
2246 2013-04-05 21:30:32 <MC1984> oh right
2247 2013-04-05 21:30:38 <MC1984> i hope it happens
2248 2013-04-05 21:30:51 <gmaxwell> MC1984: we actually ran low/out on sockets about two years ago around the time of the first bubble... that was before we had working upnp.. so even most desktop fullnodes didn't provide more sockets for the network.
2249 2013-04-05 21:31:18 <MC1984> is upnp relatively widely deployed and actually working
2250 2013-04-05 21:31:29 <gmaxwell> it's not just a sudden hard failureâ it takes progressively more time to get connected as you have to look harder to find a working peer.
2251 2013-04-05 21:31:39 <gmaxwell> MC1984: yes. appears to be.
2252 2013-04-05 21:32:26 <MC1984> well i kinda hope it happens
2253 2013-04-05 21:32:29 <gmaxwell> with some more enhancements to the network stack we could probably handle a lot more sockets in any caseâ at least on fast systems.
2254 2013-04-05 21:32:29 <MC1984> and people learn
2255 2013-04-05 21:32:33 <MC1984> boiled frog etc
2256 2013-04-05 21:33:07 <gmaxwell> nah, we keep people from learning from their poor practices because we are not unreasonable men.
2257 2013-04-05 21:34:03 Davincij has joined
2258 2013-04-05 21:34:08 <MC1984> a little incentive is unreasonable?
2259 2013-04-05 21:34:38 Davincij15 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2260 2013-04-05 21:34:53 HiWEB has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2261 2013-04-05 21:34:58 <MC1984> theres a permanent sticky bitcoin thread on /g/ now.
2262 2013-04-05 21:35:10 <MC1984> it makes bitcointalk look like a UN summit
2263 2013-04-05 21:35:25 <MC1984> but anyway, all i see is people getting directed to electrum and shit
2264 2013-04-05 21:35:34 <MC1984> and litecoin pumping
2265 2013-04-05 21:35:36 <MC1984> its annoying
2266 2013-04-05 21:36:17 <MC1984> when nearly every one of those guys could run a node without noticing, with their whizz bang light up gaming rigs
2267 2013-04-05 21:36:32 <gmaxwell> MC1984: well, give them a reason to.
2268 2013-04-05 21:37:16 <MC1984> i posted the security argument a couple of times
2269 2013-04-05 21:37:29 peacemaker has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2270 2013-04-05 21:37:41 Peacemaker420 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2271 2013-04-05 21:38:24 john5223 has joined
2272 2013-04-05 21:38:27 <gmaxwell> MC1984: carrot works better than stick usually, have you seen the python rpc block explorer stuff?
2273 2013-04-05 21:38:36 <gmaxwell> I bet you could help out with that.
2274 2013-04-05 21:38:39 <MC1984> i get the feeling that bitcoin works great with rational actors, but they must be well informed
2275 2013-04-05 21:38:41 <MC1984> and thres the rub
2276 2013-04-05 21:39:18 <MC1984> you know i dont code?
2277 2013-04-05 21:39:33 <gmaxwell> MC1984: It's my hope that a small number of altruists can offset a large number of miscalibrated rational participants.
2278 2013-04-05 21:39:58 <gmaxwell> MC1984: I know you think you don't code.
2279 2013-04-05 21:40:03 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2280 2013-04-05 21:40:19 <MC1984> id like to learn, but my attention spam is seriously shot
2281 2013-04-05 21:40:31 <MC1984> ^that seems like a freudian slip
2282 2013-04-05 21:40:44 <gmaxwell> MC1984: and well, I'm not expecting you to go digging inside the innards of bitcoin-qt. But a python+html webapp? ... Thats at least less scarry and can be done in tiny chunks.
2283 2013-04-05 21:40:50 <gmaxwell> There is also a lot of non-coding work.
2284 2013-04-05 21:41:08 <CodeShark> if (i->dontCode()) { i->learnToCode(); i->code(); }
2285 2013-04-05 21:41:22 <gmaxwell> For example, it would be really great if people could mine the forums and reddit and open bugs on any genuine looking bug that people are griping about elsewhere.
2286 2013-04-05 21:42:05 <MC1984> i kinda alert in here sometimes if i see that
2287 2013-04-05 21:42:29 <gmaxwell> Yes, so do more of that. It's useful. And go actually open the bugs, or try to reproduce them. No coding required.
2288 2013-04-05 21:43:04 <MC1984> on github?
2289 2013-04-05 21:43:08 <gmaxwell> Yes.
2290 2013-04-05 21:43:09 <gmaxwell> or, for bugs that are already openâ spam people posting about them elsewhere so they know where they can provide more info.
2291 2013-04-05 21:43:55 saivann_ has joined
2292 2013-04-05 21:44:17 <MC1984> i try to inform people where i can
2293 2013-04-05 21:44:19 lodse has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2294 2013-04-05 21:44:29 <gmaxwell> OKAY. Well, thats useful. Keep it up.
2295 2013-04-05 21:45:09 <MC1984> sometimes i take on the grinding explaining bitcoin to noobs work in here so everyone else can just code
2296 2013-04-05 21:45:19 saivann has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2297 2013-04-05 21:45:21 ColinT has joined
2298 2013-04-05 21:45:27 <MC1984> its small but it helps
2299 2013-04-05 21:45:43 <MC1984> i run a node which is destroying my 6yo laptop
2300 2013-04-05 21:45:52 <gmaxwell> This has not gone unnoticed.
2301 2013-04-05 21:45:58 <MC1984> i do what i can but maybe i can do more
2302 2013-04-05 21:46:04 <gmaxwell> (oh well, the node is likely unnoticed. :P )
2303 2013-04-05 21:46:58 ZeroIce has joined
2304 2013-04-05 21:47:21 Xqrzx has joined
2305 2013-04-05 21:47:31 MC1984_ has joined
2306 2013-04-05 21:47:55 abracadabopoulos has joined
2307 2013-04-05 21:48:12 RoboTedd_ has joined
2308 2013-04-05 21:48:41 abracadabra has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2309 2013-04-05 21:48:41 RoboTeddy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2310 2013-04-05 21:48:41 Xqr has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2311 2013-04-05 21:48:43 thegimp has joined
2312 2013-04-05 21:49:04 BR-afk has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2313 2013-04-05 21:49:29 calx has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2314 2013-04-05 21:49:29 hmmmstrange has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2315 2013-04-05 21:49:34 abracadabopoulos is now known as abracadabra
2316 2013-04-05 21:49:36 BR-afk has joined
2317 2013-04-05 21:49:37 abracadabra has quit (Changing host)
2318 2013-04-05 21:49:37 abracadabra has joined
2319 2013-04-05 21:49:54 bVector has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2320 2013-04-05 21:50:01 bVector has joined
2321 2013-04-05 21:50:15 <owowo> hey, what bubble?! There is no bubble! As long as there is no observer :P
2322 2013-04-05 21:50:19 MC1984 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2323 2013-04-05 21:50:26 thegimp is now known as hmmmstrange
2324 2013-04-05 21:50:44 saulimus has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2325 2013-04-05 21:50:48 dvide has joined
2326 2013-04-05 21:50:56 <deadweasel> ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:07ea8c27a3bf262f9a8e5f8e709b56961a4f84b15b753dfa1fed0975
2327 2013-04-05 21:50:56 saulimus has joined
2328 2013-04-05 21:50:57 <gribble> You are now authenticated for user DeadWeasel with key 6D206C24463BEC07
2329 2013-04-05 21:51:26 toffoo has joined
2330 2013-04-05 21:51:35 bernard75 has quit ()
2331 2013-04-05 21:53:17 RoboTedd_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2332 2013-04-05 21:54:29 RBecker has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2333 2013-04-05 21:58:23 torsthaldo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2334 2013-04-05 21:58:38 phungus has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2335 2013-04-05 21:58:48 FredEE has joined
2336 2013-04-05 22:00:03 thelamest has joined
2337 2013-04-05 22:00:26 RBecker has joined
2338 2013-04-05 22:01:17 <MC1984_> looks like all the 4chan peeps are starting to drop litecoin mining because it actually has a difficulty now, and are getting in on terracoin and PPC whatever the fuck that is
2339 2013-04-05 22:01:30 <MC1984_> im jaded enough that this doesnt suprise me
2340 2013-04-05 22:02:17 phungus has joined
2341 2013-04-05 22:02:21 someonesomewhere has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2342 2013-04-05 22:02:27 <helo> i guess it makes sense to just accumulate some of each ~viable cryptocoin while the difficulty is low
2343 2013-04-05 22:02:40 <gmaxwell> MC1984_: at some point you say "screw it" and start up a couple of your own altcoins which are nothing but bitcoin with the name rubbed off and some premining added.
2344 2013-04-05 22:02:48 <owowo> pump'n'dump
2345 2013-04-05 22:02:51 torsthaldo has joined
2346 2013-04-05 22:02:59 debiantoruser has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2347 2013-04-05 22:03:26 <gmaxwell> helo: I now present to you a unique one time offer to get in on the ground floor with some totally virgin gmaxwelcoins â for only 1 BTC per 10 GMAX !!
2348 2013-04-05 22:04:10 <MC1984_> the sticky exists only because the pumping threads were getting out of hand on that site
2349 2013-04-05 22:04:13 <owowo> I bet Bitmarkt could work in germany ;o)
2350 2013-04-05 22:04:22 <owowo> *Bitmark
2351 2013-04-05 22:04:23 <wumpus> hehehe
2352 2013-04-05 22:04:47 <owowo> now with all that anti euro sentiment
2353 2013-04-05 22:04:51 <alnkpa2> Bitmarkt too, actually
2354 2013-04-05 22:04:54 debiantoruser has joined
2355 2013-04-05 22:05:33 <owowo> Bitmarkt would be the german mtgox
2356 2013-04-05 22:05:44 viperhr has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2357 2013-04-05 22:05:59 <alnkpa2> yap
2358 2013-04-05 22:07:26 MSH1UP has joined
2359 2013-04-05 22:08:07 <helo> odd. CTransaction::CheckTransaction() : vin empty
2360 2013-04-05 22:08:29 <gmaxwell> helo: More info please!
2361 2013-04-05 22:08:46 <gmaxwell> helo: which node triggered this? is it exposed to the internet? details details!
2362 2013-04-05 22:08:51 <gmaxwell> helo: what code version?
2363 2013-04-05 22:09:05 <helo> received getdata for: tx c81d19087f; Misbehaving: 75.166.228.215:8333 (10 -> 20); git head
2364 2013-04-05 22:09:11 normanrichards has quit ()
2365 2013-04-05 22:10:21 <alnkpa2> hey guys, im using armory and transferred 10 h ago from one wallet to another one with tx fees. still, i dont have any confirmations yet
2366 2013-04-05 22:11:05 Prattler has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2367 2013-04-05 22:12:09 <redeeman> what transaction id?
2368 2013-04-05 22:12:40 <alnkpa2> 08a25198999e9141fd95856784e9f6b2fb63a31b1cc8f569722b11e1a13f4b13
2369 2013-04-05 22:13:21 <helo> alnkpa2: don't see it... i can send it for you if you want
2370 2013-04-05 22:13:30 RoboTeddy has joined
2371 2013-04-05 22:13:35 <alnkpa2> send it for me?
2372 2013-04-05 22:14:01 saulimus has quit (Quit: saulimus)
2373 2013-04-05 22:14:31 <helo> someone yesterday kept having problems making brainwallet transactions, and they weren't being broadcast so i was able to send them and get the intended ones to send
2374 2013-04-05 22:14:55 <alnkpa2> what do you need?
2375 2013-04-05 22:14:57 <helo> apparent blockchain.info makes it pretty trivial to do zero-conf double spends
2376 2013-04-05 22:15:24 <helo> pastebin the hex for the transaction... not exactly sure how to access that in armory
2377 2013-04-05 22:16:13 stochasm has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2378 2013-04-05 22:16:19 <alnkpa2> helo: http://pastebin.com/j8PG0v7h
2379 2013-04-05 22:18:21 <lianj> alnkpa2: submitted it again, http://blockchain.info/tx/08a25198999e9141fd95856784e9f6b2fb63a31b1cc8f569722b11e1a13f4b13
2380 2013-04-05 22:18:51 <alnkpa2> cool, thx
2381 2013-04-05 22:19:08 <alnkpa2> how do i do that?
2382 2013-04-05 22:19:34 <helo> lianj: it was rejected when i tried
2383 2013-04-05 22:19:47 <helo> alnkpa2: if you use bitcoind or bitcoin-qt, you can do "sendrawtransaction ..."
2384 2013-04-05 22:19:59 <lianj> dunno, i used my own node
2385 2013-04-05 22:20:01 <alnkpa2> cool ok, thx
2386 2013-04-05 22:21:00 Supa has joined
2387 2013-04-05 22:21:05 <Supa> you guys are gay
2388 2013-04-05 22:21:05 <Supa> :D
2389 2013-04-05 22:22:12 BlackPrapor has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2390 2013-04-05 22:23:17 <alnkpa2> well thanks guys, lianj and helo
2391 2013-04-05 22:24:55 quaz0r has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2392 2013-04-05 22:25:04 <helo> i don't understand why blockchain.info doesn't seem to broadcast any transactions
2393 2013-04-05 22:25:47 meefozio has joined
2394 2013-04-05 22:25:57 <lianj> a bug?
2395 2013-04-05 22:26:09 <sipa> phase of the moon
2396 2013-04-05 22:26:40 fiesh has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2397 2013-04-05 22:28:07 ovidiusoft has quit (Quit: leaving)
2398 2013-04-05 22:28:47 whizter has quit ()
2399 2013-04-05 22:31:29 brwyatt_ is now known as Away!~brwyatt@brwyatt.net|brwyatt_
2400 2013-04-05 22:32:23 brwyatt_ is now known as brwyatt
2401 2013-04-05 22:33:19 Pinion has joined
2402 2013-04-05 22:33:19 <Mr_G> do we have nice tutorial for handling bitcoind on ubuntu? I mean like encrypting wallet etc without gui
2403 2013-04-05 22:33:39 RBecker is now known as rbecker
2404 2013-04-05 22:33:40 rbecker is now known as RBecker
2405 2013-04-05 22:33:41 RBecker has quit (Quit: You care. You're there for me. You love me so much, and I never want to let it go. You are the one truly amazing person. MDR 3/6/11 <3)
2406 2013-04-05 22:33:42 Pinion is now known as Guest7189
2407 2013-04-05 22:34:24 GlitchNZ has joined
2408 2013-04-05 22:34:35 <GlitchNZ> Morning gents
2409 2013-04-05 22:34:36 RBecker has joined
2410 2013-04-05 22:34:43 <sipa> 'night
2411 2013-04-05 22:35:03 <GlitchNZ> This code im working on that reverses transactions is seriously doing my head in
2412 2013-04-05 22:35:36 <sipa> how do you do that?
2413 2013-04-05 22:35:59 <sipa> double spending?
2414 2013-04-05 22:36:02 <GlitchNZ> If i send a bitcoin to A from my wallet that has multiple addresses, how can A work out the originating address - should i just assume thae largest contributing address will do?
2415 2013-04-05 22:36:14 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2416 2013-04-05 22:36:29 <sipa> bitcoin transactions do not have a from address
2417 2013-04-05 22:36:43 guruvan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2418 2013-04-05 22:36:49 <sipa> they refer to specific outputs of previous transactions, which they consume
2419 2013-04-05 22:36:54 <GlitchNZ> Yes, but you can work out a set of addresses that contributed to the transaction
2420 2013-04-05 22:36:58 <sipa> yes
2421 2013-04-05 22:37:02 bwen has joined
2422 2013-04-05 22:37:07 <sipa> but this is very rarely interesting :)
2423 2013-04-05 22:37:22 quaz0r has joined
2424 2013-04-05 22:37:28 <GlitchNZ> if its not a multisig transaction, I think you can assume whoever sent the coins controlls all of the output addresses of the previous transaction(s)
2425 2013-04-05 22:37:44 <sipa> that's very often a wrong assumption
2426 2013-04-05 22:37:45 <GlitchNZ> well, the ones that contributed to the coins you received anyway
2427 2013-04-05 22:37:58 <sipa> someone sending from a shared e-wallet will send from shared addresses
2428 2013-04-05 22:38:06 <GlitchNZ> thats my problem - i don't want to make the wrong assumption
2429 2013-04-05 22:38:19 <sipa> then don't assume there exist something like 'from' addresses
2430 2013-04-05 22:38:23 <lianj> then dont make it
2431 2013-04-05 22:38:37 <sipa> if you need to send coins back somewhere, ask for an address
2432 2013-04-05 22:39:00 <amiller> how many of the pools publish samples of 'shares'
2433 2013-04-05 22:39:11 <amiller> this would be really useful for getting real time assessments of what the mining power is doing
2434 2013-04-05 22:39:20 <sipa> samples?
2435 2013-04-05 22:39:35 <GlitchNZ> I can constrain the system to reject transactions that don't follow cdertain rules - If i get the rules right then I should be able to logically determine a return address. I don't care about cases that don't follow the arbitrary rules I make
2436 2013-04-05 22:39:35 <amiller> it would enable more sensitive voting like for BIP 16 or w/e and also to make it clear when something like the fork from a few weeks ago is about to be resolved
2437 2013-04-05 22:39:40 benkay has joined
2438 2013-04-05 22:39:55 <amiller> sipa, for example the near misses that weren't quite blocks but maybe were more 'rare' than what qualifies for a share
2439 2013-04-05 22:40:00 <benkay> hey devorz, what's the lightest-weight bitcoin client that performs node duties?
2440 2013-04-05 22:40:02 <sipa> GlitchNZ: do NOT assume you can infer a return address from a transaction; it has none, and you cannot guess correctly
2441 2013-04-05 22:40:26 <sipa> GlitchNZ: it will fail for anything but a single-owner wallet
2442 2013-04-05 22:41:01 <sipa> amiller: p2pool does :D
2443 2013-04-05 22:41:07 <amiller> blocks come every 10 minutes for everyone, but a typical pool will have 'shares' that are collected say every couple seconds, but for the purpose of aggregating mining information transparently, it would be beneficial to publish/broadcast shares or results that are somewhere in between, more common than blocks and more rare than shares
2444 2013-04-05 22:41:17 <GlitchNZ> sipa - if I state that the system will only accept trnsactions that channel the coins from a single vout to a single vin, I can detemine a from address for all transactions that meet the requirements.
2445 2013-04-05 22:41:20 <amiller> yeah, p2pool definitely has this transparency quality :o
2446 2013-04-05 22:41:22 grau has joined
2447 2013-04-05 22:41:30 <sipa> GlitchNZ: no you cannot
2448 2013-04-05 22:41:41 <GlitchNZ> why not?
2449 2013-04-05 22:41:41 <amiller> i think that *none* of the other pools do, but perhaps this is something that could change easily if everyone agreed it could be important.
2450 2013-04-05 22:42:09 <sipa> GlitchNZ: if i send for example from my mtgox account to you, it will send *any* mtgox coin, not necessarily one that was associated with an address of mine
2451 2013-04-05 22:42:24 <sipa> GlitchNZ: and since you're not supposed to reuse addresses, this is not a problem either
2452 2013-04-05 22:42:59 richcollins has joined
2453 2013-04-05 22:43:09 <lianj> and you cant even force the bitcoin-qt client to do a 1 vin 1 (or 2) vout tx
2454 2013-04-05 22:43:11 <sipa> GlitchNZ: so really, *please* *PLEASE* don't infer a from address from a transaction; it cripples the flexibility of the network
2455 2013-04-05 22:43:26 <sipa> if you need a return address, ask for one
2456 2013-04-05 22:43:57 <GlitchNZ> sipa: as I have not specified the purpose, you can not assume that what I am doing will have any effect on the network
2457 2013-04-05 22:44:07 <sipa> GlitchNZ: the ecosystem, i mean
2458 2013-04-05 22:44:17 canooon has joined
2459 2013-04-05 22:44:17 canoon has joined
2460 2013-04-05 22:44:25 <GlitchNZ> I am talking about a closed system, in which I have a high degree of controll of these things
2461 2013-04-05 22:44:39 <GlitchNZ> e.g. shared wallets like mtgox are not an issue at all
2462 2013-04-05 22:44:42 dvide has quit ()
2463 2013-04-05 22:44:57 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2464 2013-04-05 22:44:57 alnkpa2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2465 2013-04-05 22:45:02 <sipa> it will still be address reuse, which is bad for the privacy of the system as a whole
2466 2013-04-05 22:45:02 <GlitchNZ> I will know that whoever sent the transaction, has full control over the address they sent it from
2467 2013-04-05 22:45:14 BTCOxygen has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2468 2013-04-05 22:45:44 <sipa> and now i will stop preaching :)
2469 2013-04-05 22:46:32 <GlitchNZ> my issue is cooming up with a balance of restrictions that allow accurately determine a from address, while still trying to be as flexible as possible
2470 2013-04-05 22:47:27 <GlitchNZ> the hypothetical case of 1 vin -> 1 vout is trvial, but obviously impracticle
2471 2013-04-05 22:47:50 ZeroIce has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2472 2013-04-05 22:48:29 ZeroIce has joined
2473 2013-04-05 22:50:47 Jere_Jones has quit ()
2474 2013-04-05 22:51:31 manet_ has joined
2475 2013-04-05 22:51:52 manet has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2476 2013-04-05 22:52:11 bwen has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2477 2013-04-05 22:52:20 <GlitchNZ> sipa - why does address reuse cripple the flexibility of the network?
2478 2013-04-05 22:52:34 <sipa> it doesn't; it decreases the privacy
2479 2013-04-05 22:53:03 richcollins has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2480 2013-04-05 22:53:04 bwen has joined
2481 2013-04-05 22:53:05 ZeroIce has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2482 2013-04-05 22:53:13 <sipa> the assumption that prevout addresses can be sent to, to return to the sender; that decreases the flexibility
2483 2013-04-05 22:53:24 richcollins has joined
2484 2013-04-05 22:54:11 BTCOxygen has joined
2485 2013-04-05 22:55:04 <GlitchNZ> yes but its a very specialised case - and such a case may be required from time to time for certain activities
2486 2013-04-05 22:55:04 BlackPrapor has joined
2487 2013-04-05 22:55:20 <GlitchNZ> if the restrictions are to great then people won't use it
2488 2013-04-05 22:55:37 <GlitchNZ> that reduces the flexibility of the application, not the network as a whole
2489 2013-04-05 22:55:39 <sipa> well, hopefully in the near future we'll have a payment protocol
2490 2013-04-05 22:55:54 <sipa> where the sender directly transmits an authenticated transaction to the receiver
2491 2013-04-05 22:56:06 <sipa> including any metadata he likes, such as a return address
2492 2013-04-05 22:56:11 <sipa> so there's no need anymore to guess one
2493 2013-04-05 22:56:42 <GlitchNZ> that would be nice, when it happens - I assume such a protocol would require consensus among te foundation to be condisered
2494 2013-04-05 22:56:50 <GlitchNZ> *considered
2495 2013-04-05 22:56:58 BlackPrapor has quit (Excess Flood)
2496 2013-04-05 22:56:59 <sipa> it's almost finished
2497 2013-04-05 22:57:17 <GlitchNZ> cool - will it be build into qt?
2498 2013-04-05 22:57:19 Peacemaker420 has joined
2499 2013-04-05 22:57:24 <sipa> sure
2500 2013-04-05 22:58:13 bwen has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2501 2013-04-05 22:58:17 <GlitchNZ> what about speed - will it still be subject to 6+ confirmations?
2502 2013-04-05 22:58:28 BlackPrapor has joined
2503 2013-04-05 22:58:39 <sipa> of course, it doesn't change the security properties of the bitcoin network
2504 2013-04-05 22:58:46 <sipa> it just adds a convenience layer on top
2505 2013-04-05 22:59:55 <sipa> also, you decide yourself how many confirmations is safe
2506 2013-04-05 23:00:04 <sipa> if you trust the sender, you shouldn't need any at all
2507 2013-04-05 23:00:15 <GlitchNZ> so its just a signed transaction with some standarized metadata
2508 2013-04-05 23:00:16 <sipa> for selling a house, you probably want more than 6
2509 2013-04-05 23:00:23 bwen has joined
2510 2013-04-05 23:00:37 <sipa> yes, in a signed encapsulation
2511 2013-04-05 23:00:52 one_zero has joined
2512 2013-04-05 23:00:54 <sipa> over a direct protocol, instead of via the (slow, expensive, unreliable) P2P network
2513 2013-04-05 23:00:56 <GlitchNZ> seems pretty straight forward - probably wont affect what I'm doing
2514 2013-04-05 23:01:14 <GlitchNZ> oh, over direct protocol - that makes it more interesting
2515 2013-04-05 23:01:21 <sipa> so you can basically just to pay to a URL
2516 2013-04-05 23:01:31 <sipa> which resolves to a payment request
2517 2013-04-05 23:01:36 <GlitchNZ> i see, and the receveiver can broadcast the transaction
2518 2013-04-05 23:01:40 <sipa> exactly
2519 2013-04-05 23:01:59 <sipa> so the receiver (who is the only one who cares about confirmations) becomes responsible for getting it confirmed
2520 2013-04-05 23:01:59 <GlitchNZ> well, that could speed things up a bit - any ETA?
2521 2013-04-05 23:02:05 lodse has joined
2522 2013-04-05 23:02:35 <sipa> while the sender (who only cares about getting the receiver to accept the transaction) doesn't need to rely on the P2P network for communication with a single party he's probably already communicating with anyway
2523 2013-04-05 23:03:18 <sipa> no ETA, but gavinandresen is actively working on it
2524 2013-04-05 23:03:47 <GlitchNZ> do you have a link to the github page and/or wiki? (I assume its open source)
2525 2013-04-05 23:05:10 <sipa> https://gist.github.com/gavinandresen/4120476
2526 2013-04-05 23:05:21 <sipa> implementation is probably on his github somewhere as well
2527 2013-04-05 23:05:30 benkay has left ("Leaving")
2528 2013-04-05 23:10:20 <GlitchNZ> looks promising
2529 2013-04-05 23:13:57 Guest7189 has quit (Quit: Has quit)
2530 2013-04-05 23:14:04 BlackPrapor has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2531 2013-04-05 23:14:14 BlackPrapor has joined
2532 2013-04-05 23:14:30 Tantadruj has joined
2533 2013-04-05 23:14:57 denisx has joined
2534 2013-04-05 23:16:38 Happzz is now known as happzz_
2535 2013-04-05 23:18:06 Aziz has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2536 2013-04-05 23:19:02 darkee has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2537 2013-04-05 23:19:43 XRPTrader2 has joined
2538 2013-04-05 23:20:05 happzz_ is now known as Happzz
2539 2013-04-05 23:21:41 MWNinja_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2540 2013-04-05 23:22:01 BlackPrapor has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2541 2013-04-05 23:22:32 viperhr has joined
2542 2013-04-05 23:23:53 XRPTrader2_ has joined
2543 2013-04-05 23:23:57 XRPTrader2 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2544 2013-04-05 23:23:58 XRPTrader2_ is now known as XRPTrader2
2545 2013-04-05 23:27:20 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2546 2013-04-05 23:27:49 Aziz has joined
2547 2013-04-05 23:28:09 random_cat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2548 2013-04-05 23:30:12 <ProfMac> I'm having a bad memory moment. I have a detached signature (.asc) and I'm pretty sure that PGP would just go get any missing keys from the keyserver till I had a chain of trust. Can I make gpg get keys that it doesn't have?
2549 2013-04-05 23:30:53 enikanorov_ has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2550 2013-04-05 23:31:58 datagutt has joined
2551 2013-04-05 23:33:05 defunctzombie is now known as defunctzombie_zz
2552 2013-04-05 23:34:39 b00tkitz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2553 2013-04-05 23:35:29 Aziz has quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
2554 2013-04-05 23:36:26 Jazz has joined
2555 2013-04-05 23:38:04 altgribble has quit (Disconnected by services)
2556 2013-04-05 23:39:41 winterblack has joined
2557 2013-04-05 23:40:22 HobGoblin has joined
2558 2013-04-05 23:40:45 HobGoblin is now known as Guest6219
2559 2013-04-05 23:40:55 skeledrew1 has joined
2560 2013-04-05 23:42:08 DrAkaman has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2561 2013-04-05 23:43:39 a_meteorite has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2562 2013-04-05 23:43:53 mrjack has joined
2563 2013-04-05 23:44:05 nsillik has quit (Quit: nsillik)
2564 2013-04-05 23:46:16 torsthaldo has quit (Read error: No route to host)
2565 2013-04-05 23:46:23 Aziz_ has joined
2566 2013-04-05 23:46:46 MC-Droid has joined
2567 2013-04-05 23:46:46 thelamest has joined
2568 2013-04-05 23:46:46 Ry4an has joined
2569 2013-04-05 23:46:46 BlueMatt has joined
2570 2013-04-05 23:47:29 XRPTrader2 has quit (Quit: XRPTrader2)
2571 2013-04-05 23:50:22 paybitcoin has joined
2572 2013-04-05 23:51:57 vigilyn has joined